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Smithsonian Magazine: The Shocking Savagery of America’s Early History

Documenting every fearful sermon
History • Views: 33,072
The ”peaceful” Pilgrims massacred the Pequots and destroyed their fort near Stonington, Connecticut, in 1637. A 19th-century wood engraving (above) depicts the slaughter. (The Granger Collection, NYC)

It’s all a bit of a blur, isn’t it? That little-remembered century—1600 to 1700—that began with the founding (and foundering) of the first permanent English settlement in America, the one called Jamestown, whose endemic perils portended failure for the dream of a New World. The century that saw all the disease-ridden, barely civilized successors to Jamestown slaughtering and getting slaughtered by the Original Inhabitants, hanging on by their fingernails to some fetid coastal swampland until Pocahontas saved Thanksgiving. No, that’s not right, is it? I said it was a blur.

Enter Bernard Bailyn, the greatest historian of early America alive today. Now over 90 and ensconced at Harvard for more than six decades, Bailyn has recently published another one of his epoch-making grand narrative syntheses, The Barbarous Years, casting a light on the darkness, filling in the blank canvas with what he’s gleaned from what seems like every last scrap of crumbling diary page, every surviving chattel slave receipt and ship’s passenger manifest of the living and dead, every fearful sermon about the Antichrist that survived in the blackened embers of the burned-out churches.

Bailyn has not painted a pretty picture. Little wonder he calls it The Barbarous Years and spares us no details of the terror, desperation, degradation and widespread torture—do you really know what being “flayed alive” means? (The skin is torn from the face and head and the prisoner is disemboweled while still alive.) And yet somehow amid the merciless massacres were elements that gave birth to the rudiments of civilization—or in Bailyn’s evocative phrase, the fragile “integument of civility”—that would evolve 100 years later into a virtual Renaissance culture, a bustling string of self-governing, self-sufficient, defiantly expansionist colonies alive with an increasingly sophisticated and literate political and intellectual culture that would coalesce into the rationale for the birth of American independence. All the while shaping, and sometimes misshaping, the American character. It’s a grand drama in which the glimmers of enlightenment barely survive the savagery, what Yeats called “the blood-dimmed tide,” the brutal establishment of slavery, the race wars with the original inhabitants that Bailyn is not afraid to call “genocidal,” the full, horrifying details of which have virtually been erased.

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318 comments

1 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:33:24pm

Some of Bailyn says reminds me of Lord Kenneth Clark and his series “Civilisation.” Yes, I know I am using the British spelling.

2 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:48:37pm

It’s really interesting how prominent the Antichrist meme was in early America. That’s something I didn’t know.

The apocalyptic reactionary cults go way back.

3 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:53:24pm

I’ve been working on my genealogy since this January (it’s my project for the year) and it turns out one of my ancestors was in Jamestown (the James City shire) and survived the massacre of 1622.

Now, I’m glad he survived - I wouldn’t be here otherwise. Yet it is undeniably true that the early English settlers ran into trouble after trouble, and that some or most of it were of their own making I have no doubt.

I think it is important to keep in mind, when looking at history pre-18th century, to realize that life back then was much more visceral, daily, than we live our lives today, where we are isolated and cocooned inside electronic and mechanized shells.

Life 400 years ago is quite distant to me now - I doubt that if I could be magically transported back to that time that I could survive. In many places around the world, life 400 yeas ago was cruder, shorter, and dirtier.

I also wonder about the teaching of history to our children today. Are they challenged? Enlightened? IIRC, as a kid I was not too interested in history and I doubt young people today are much different.

4 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 6:57:52pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Religion played a very important part of the early English colonies in both New England and Virginia.

The first Great Awakening is very much part of what it meant to be “American”. The revivalism movements that preceded it are part of the causality-chain that led to the colonies. They in turn built upon the anti-papist movement of the first Protestants, who would preach that the Pope was the Anti-Christ.

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:05:53pm

re: #4 freetoken

So basically you’re saying our ancestors were batshit crazy wingnuts?

I guess I knew that.

6 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:19:18pm

It’s worth noting that Moravians were inclusive and progressive in the North, but succumbed to racial segregation and slavery in the South.

In the North, Moravians buried their dead, irrespective of race or class, with flat grave markers.

7 Tigger2005  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:27:51pm
I also wonder about the teaching of history to our children today. Are they challenged? Enlightened? IIRC, as a kid I was not too interested in history and I doubt young people today are much different.

I loved history. I didn’t need anyone to make it interesting to me…how could it NOT be interesting? It is intrinsically fascinating. But then I was a weird kid, even within my own family. My siblings had nothing like the interest in history I did. Once I found a bunch of newspapers my mother had saved of moon landing and the Kennedy assassination. I brought them upstairs and devoured them. My sister didn’t understand. “Why is he reading those stupid old newspapers?” she asked.

In regard to the original post, it’s kind of amazing that from such savage beginnings emerged a nation that embodied the highest precepts of the European Enlightenment. Despite all the horrible things that happened, we still didn’t have the same kind of heavy baggage Europe had, which kept it from fully embracing the ideals of its own Enlightenment (particularly the notion of self-government).

8 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:30:41pm

re: #3 freetoken

In school, I didn’t much care for history.

Outside it’s one of my all time favourite subjects. It started with a book my dad had. Basically it was a propaganda book put out by the RAF during WWII. About 1943 I figure. The Spitfire Mk. IX and the Hurribomber were in it, along with the Beaufighter and the quickly forgotten Westland Whirlwind. So was the Lancaster. The Mosquito was not in it though. Which is why I set the date on it I did.

Around that time the magazine History of the Second World War came out. I collected most of them and wore out a few.

What really go me started was wargaming. Games like Drang Nach Osten and Squad Leader made me head to libraries and bookstores to find out all I could about WWII history.

From there I’ve ended up wandering all over the world. I’m thinking of going deeply into Chinese history next.

I love history. Pity they make it so effen dull in school

9 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:31:07pm

Roger Williams deserves some recognition, because he was probably 300 years ahead of his contemporaries:

Roger Williams (c. 1603 – between January and March 1683) was an English Protestant theologian who was an early proponent of religious freedom and the separation of church and state. In 1636, he began the colony of Providence Plantation, which provided a refuge for religious minorities. Williams started the first Baptist church in America, the First Baptist Church of Providence. He was a student of Native American languages and an advocate for fair dealings with Native Americans. Williams was arguably the first abolitionist in North America, having organized the first attempt to prohibit slavery in any of the original thirteen colonies.

In the strongest language, he described the attempt to compel belief as rape of the soul, and spoke of the “oceans of blood” shed as a result of trying to command conformity. He believed that the moral principles in the Scriptures ought to inform the civil magistrates, but he observed that well ordered, just, and civil governments existed where Christianity was not present. All governments had to maintain civil order and justice, but none had a warrant to promote any religion.

Imagine- he’d be considered a heretic today.

10 Tigger2005  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:39:54pm

The ritual of O-Kee-Pa always makes me wince to think about it. George Caitlin recorded this coming-of-age ritual, in which young braves had bone skewers thrust under the muscles of the back or chest, and were then hoisted into the air via ropes attached to the skewers. To increase the agony, bison skulls were hung from their ankles. After being lowered, the braves were made to run until they collapsed from exhaustion.

11 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 7:56:06pm

An interesting account. I have never been one to believe the Hollywood fable of “peaceful Pilgrims.” I doubt that many people do anymore. I even see right-wingers who are now sympathetic to what the American Indians faced. Much white washing remains including the treatment of American Indians by Abraham Lincoln.

It’s difficult to judge these people from the 17th century with my 21st century eye. Times were brutal. People we still being tortured, and I mean tortured int the most savage of manners even into the 18ths century. It was common place and people accepted it. The French Revolution was one of outright savagery.

Excerpt from the above:

“But he [Roger Williams] wasn’t a zealot who persecuted others.”

“No, he was not. That’s why they hated him…he was complicated. He was well educated, he was a gentleman—but he was a nut case! They didn’t know what to do with him. Among his views, first of all, was that you do not seize Indian land. You don’t own it, you don’t take it. And you treat people civilly and there is no purity in any stage of Christianity, hence toleration.”

“What’s nutty about that?” I asked

“You don’t live in the 17th century.”

“So you’re not saying he’s a nut case from the perspective of the 21st century?”

“No, certainly not. He became properly famous for all this—later. At the time people hated him. Because he was breaking up the unity of Christianity. One of his contemporaries had a wonderful phrase for him. Namely, he is ‘unlamb-like.’ No lamb, this guy. He sure wasn’t. But he got close to the Indians, knew them well, lived with them.”

Bailyn’s description of the many contradictory aspects of Williams’ character stayed with me. A zealot, but tolerant. An outcast, but a self-outcast. Willing to be seen as a “nut case” in his time. A visionary sense of the way to a better future in that dark century. So much of the American character, like Williams, emerges from the barbarous years. And that century has left its stamp on us. Not the “zealous nut case” part, though that’s there. I’m thinking of that compound word Bailyn likes about Williams: “unlamb-like.” That’s us.

12 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:08:04pm

re: #9 dragonath

Roger Williams deserves some recognition, because he was probably 300 years ahead of his contemporaries:

Imagine- he’d be considered a heretic today.

A secularist.

13 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:15:17pm

I’m really not sure how many true secularists really exist in Protestantism anymore what with Roy Moore, John Hagee, and Franklin Graham. I became disenchanted with the church I grew up with because its theology was slowly descending towards fundamentalist precepts.

14 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:16:10pm

1622 was essentially 123 years after the end Middle Ages if one were to consider that year 1499. The end of the Dark Ages. It would be a span of time if one compared 2012 to 1889.

Image: Witches_Being_Hanged.jpg

England, 1655.

15 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:16:32pm

How long before the right ‘corrects’ these histories?

16 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:20:46pm

re: #14 Gus

How about this- Thomas Paine was about as far away from the year 1500 as was the Fourth Crusade. Human history appears to move fast until you examine it.

17 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:21:27pm

re: #15 b_sharp

How long before the right ‘corrects’ these histories?

David Barton will begin work at once.

18 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:23:26pm

re: #15 b_sharp

How long before the right ‘corrects’ these histories?

This is clearly an anti-American perspective.

//

19 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:23:45pm

What’s the Canadian version of Pilgrims?

20 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:24:00pm

re: #19 Gus

Habitants?

21 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:24:51pm

re: #19 Gus

What’s the Canadian version of Pilgrims?

French traders.

22 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:28:17pm

re: #21 Kragar (Antichrist )

French traders.

They were dicks too. Everyone was an asshole back then.

23 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:30:30pm

re: #17 Kragar (Antichrist )

David Barton will begin work at once.

He’ll have National Review to contend with. Daniel Johnson reviewed the book for NR and he found it well written and worthy. Barton may spin his lies if he wishes to try, but he’ll find naught save that he has once again climbed the Laughingstock Tree.

24 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:30:46pm

re: #19 Gus

What’s the Canadian version of Pilgrims?

Upper Canada or Lower Canada?

25 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:31:20pm

Meanwhile on the rec list at DKos….
“The presidency of the U.S. has become at its core the vehicle for permanently unlawful behavior”
No it’s not just simple reporting what someone else said.

Every four years, we elect a new criminal because that’s become the precise job description.

Reading this, I cringe. I cringe because of how painfully obvious its truths have become.

Tip Jar (341+ / 0-)

26 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:31:59pm

William Penn was pretty cool, but his son was stunningly corrupt and religiously intolerant

He [Thomas Penn] did not hold many of the beliefs of the Quakers who had come to Pennsylvania, and lived the life of an aristocrat who had taken from the poor, identifiably different from his Quaker father who had tried to purchase land fairly from the Indians and live a life of peace.

The politics of the colony were complex, with the Quaker population declining and the legislature increasingly at odds with its proprietor. In 1756, Penn attempted to remove the Quakers from power in the colony by having a petition granted by Parliament that would require an oath of loyalty in all colonial legislative assemblies. Because the Quakers never took oaths, they would be banned from power. The attempt failed and the colonial Quakers remained free of any oaths to Parliament.

Loyalty oaths!

27 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:33:58pm

Here’s wishing Bradley Manning a happy 1,000 days in captivity

Bradley Manning: 1,000 days in detention and secrecy still reigns

The WikiLeaks suspect’s prosecution has been conducted with a complete absence of transparency – with worrying implications

…and hopes for many 1,000’s more!

28 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:34:16pm

re: #24 Feline Fearless Leader

Upper Canada or Lower Canada?

Either.

29 Lidane  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:34:36pm

Apologies for the early OT, but this is making the rounds:

US asks Supreme Court to strike down law denying benefits to same-sex couples

The Obama administration urged the Supreme Court on Friday to throw out a section of a 1996 federal law that prohibits recognition of same-sex marriage.

The brief was filed Friday in United States v. Windsor, a case challenging Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, the law that legally declares marriage to be only between a man and a woman. That section allows state and federal authorities to deny benefits to same-sex couples that are commonplace for heterosexual couples, like insurance for government workers and Social Security survivors’ benefits.

Oral arguments are scheduled for March 27.

30 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:34:55pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Well, I see you’re full of good will tonight.

31 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:36:15pm

re: #19 Gus

What’s the Canadian version of Pilgrims?

Vikings.

32 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:36:44pm

re: #31 b_sharp

Vikings.

Ah, those delicate creatures.

33 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:37:20pm

re: #21 Kragar (Antichrist )

French traders.

Scot traders too.

Metis tradition is a mix of the French, Scot and Aboriginal cultures.

34 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:38:26pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Meanwhile on the rec list at DKos….
“The presidency of the U.S. has become at its core the vehicle for permanently unlawful behavior”
No it’s not just simple reporting what someone else said.

Reading this, I cringe. I cringe because of how painfully obvious its truths have become.

Tip Jar (341+ / 0-)

The realities of keeping Al Qaeda cut back inevitably meant that some on the far-laft would fall out of love with President Obama. But that’s no revelation, Killgore. The person writing that is just one of those people who cannot accept the need to act against Radical Islam. Bush got yelled at by those people, now Obama is the target of their butthurt, and in 2017 whoever succeeds Obama will be hated by them.

35 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:40:10pm

re: #30 dragonath

Well, I see you’re full of good will tonight.

I’m watching Zero Dark Thirty for the first time. About half way through and I finally see what the controversy is about. It is a fictionalized account but I didn’t know the enhanced interrogation stuff was such a large part of the movie. For me the most offensive part is the several hints of sexual/romantic tension between the redhead chick and the CIA dude. American movies just can’t take a hint from movies like La Femme Nakita (the original version). You can leave that silly shit out and makes a much better movie and much more interesting female characters.

36 Lidane  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:41:02pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

You realize that you whining about the rec list on DKos is exactly like someone whining about the Pages here, right?

37 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:41:12pm

re: #33 b_sharp

Scot traders too.

Metis tradition is a mix of the French, Scot and Aboriginal cultures.

My brother was working for a company that had him all over the world for a couple of years. Once he landed and ended up in Quebec. It was roughneck country. Lumber. He went into some bar. From what he described it sounded like the roughest of rough necks I’ve ever heard. We went on a family trip to Montreal, Quebec, for a couple of days. Campground lodging in our trailer. The French Canadian stayed up all night drinking up a storm and chatting the night away.

38 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:41:35pm

** quake ** sharp jolt followed by 2 second role….

39 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:42:11pm

re: #36 Lidane

You realize that you whining about the rec list on DKos is exactly like someone whining about the Pages here, right?

…and you whining about my posts. Welcome to the circle derp!

40 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:42:45pm

re: #38 freetoken

** quake ** sharp jolt followed by 2 second role….

I did nothing of the sort!

41 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:42:57pm

re: #38 freetoken

** quake ** sharp jolt followed by 2 second role….

Didn’t feel it

42 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:43:37pm

Guys, please. Not now. If someone says something that bugs ya just let it go.

43 dragonath  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:43:51pm

Fun fact: New York had a Dutch family patroonship (literally, a feudal manor) until the 1840s. It was called the Manor of Rensselearswyck. It probably would have lasted longer if the final owner hadn’t applied back rents and attempted to seize the goods of the workers living there.

44 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:44:50pm

4.3 off the coast:

[Link: earthquake.usgs.gov…]

45 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:45:35pm

re: #42 Gus

Guys, please. Not now. If someone says something that bugs ya just let it go.

A virtual fart?

46 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:46:56pm

re: #28 Gus

Either.

Would pretty much be French settlers until after the end of the French and Indian Wars. A 1740 census put the settler population of the St Lawrence drainage area (essentially French Canada) at about 44,000. Which is roughly on par with the population of the New York City and the surrounding boroughs at that time.

Upper Canada was set up separately from Lower Canada (Quebec) in 1790. And it was heavily settled by Loyalists who left the 13 colonies and Scots.

So the probable equivalent to Pilgrims (17th century settlers) would be primarily French. And after a point required to be Roman Catholics, or at a minimum renounce their Protestant faith. And population-wise New France was never able to successfully compete with the English colonies to the south.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

47 chadu  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:48:57pm

re: #10 Tigger2005

Wasn’t that a Plains thing?

EDITED TO ADD: I read a very interested interpretation of the ritual. FOOLS CROW, James Welch.

48 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:48:59pm

re: #46 Feline Fearless Leader

Would pretty much be French settlers until after the end of the French and Indian Wars. A 1740 census put the settler population of the St Lawrence drainage area (essentially French Canada) at about 44,000. Which is roughly on par with the population of the New York City and the surrounding boroughs at that time.

Upper Canada was set up separately from Lower Canada (Quebec) in 1790. And it was heavily settled by Loyalists who left the 13 colonies and Scots.

So the probable equivalent to Pilgrims (17th century settlers) would be primarily French. And after a point required to be Roman Catholics, or at a minimum renounce their Protestant faith. And population-wise New France was never able to successfully compete with the English colonies to the south.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

100 years hence. Thus more civilized. By then the UK had outlawed torture for example.

49 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:49:00pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

So basically you’re saying our ancestors were batshit crazy wingnuts?

The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.

50 Lidane  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:49:10pm

Sitting here reading the government brief on same-sex marriage (PDF link, BTW). This is really interesting stuff.

51 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:50:41pm

I’m glad the author used the word “barbarous.” It’s an important word. The other day Richard Dawkins called rhino poachers barbarians. Sadly he caught heat from many people declaring him “racist.” Not so. They are barbarians. A useful word.

52 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:51:02pm

re: #48 Gus

100 years hence. Thus more civilized. By then the UK had outlawed torture for example.

If you read that wiki article you see constant friction between the French settlers and Jesuit missionaries with the Indians (often the Iroquois).

53 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:52:21pm

re: #49 freetoken

The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Anger, fear, and violence are probably much more natural to our psyche than rational discourse and logic.

54 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:52:32pm

re: #52 Feline Fearless Leader

If you read that wiki article you see constant friction between the French settlers and Jesuit missionaries with the Indians (often the Iroquois).

Many of which eventually became citizens of the Confederacy.

55 chadu  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:52:41pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

They were dicks too. Everyone was an asshole back then.

Everyone’s an asshole today.

56 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:52:59pm

re: #51 Gus

I’m glad the author used the word “barbarous.” It’s an important word. The other day Richard Dawkins called rhino poachers barbarians. Sadly he caught heat from many people declaring him “racist.”

In fact the opposite is true - what could be more racist than implying that certain behaviors are “innate” to a certain race, ergo they can’t be expected to change them, ever, and it’s unreasonable to suggest they do?

57 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:53:07pm

re: #55 chadu

Everyone’s an asshole today.

I prefer today’s assholes.

58 chadu  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:53:53pm

re: #57 Gus

I prefer today’s assholes.

Yesterday’s assholes are kinda dry and rough…

I’ve said too much.

//////

59 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:55:03pm

re: #51 Gus

I’m glad the author used the word “barbarous.” It’s an important word. The other day Richard Dawkins called rhino poachers barbarians. Sadly he caught heat from many people declaring him “racist.” Not so. They are barbarians. A useful word.

They are also almost all black, and Richard Dawkins is white. Dawkins is also no species of racial bigot, but the sight of a white man calling black men ‘barbarians’ is bound to bring up some very unpleasant memories for some people.

60 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:55:46pm

re: #46 Feline Fearless Leader

Would pretty much be French settlers until after the end of the French and Indian Wars. A 1740 census put the settler population of the St Lawrence drainage area (essentially French Canada) at about 44,000. Which is roughly on par with the population of the New York City and the surrounding boroughs at that time.

Upper Canada was set up separately from Lower Canada (Quebec) in 1790. And it was heavily settled by Loyalists who left the 13 colonies and Scots.

So the probable equivalent to Pilgrims (17th century settlers) would be primarily French. And after a point required to be Roman Catholics, or at a minimum renounce their Protestant faith. And population-wise New France was never able to successfully compete with the English colonies to the south.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The French were instrumental in building the Hudson Bay Company throughout the west. The Hudson Bay Co. owned a lot of the land in what was called the Northwest Territories before the Louis Riel led Metis rebellions.

61 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:58:22pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

They are also almost all black, and Richard Dawkins is white.

These disgusting shitbags are barbarians as well. What color are they?

It’s the behavior being condemned, not the race, which should be obvious to any person with an ounce of intellectual honesty.

62 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:58:32pm

re: #57 Gus

I prefer today’s assholes.

Today’s assholes are marginally better but tomorrow’s assholes are still going to think we’re dicks.

63 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 8:59:05pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

They are also almost all black, and Richard Dawkins is white. Dawkins is also no species of racial bigot, but the sight of a white man calling black men ‘barbarians’ is bound to bring up some very unpleasant memories for some people.

The context is such that it is obvious he was calling them barbarians for their actions, not their race.

64 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:01:52pm

re: #61 Interesting Times

These disgusting shitbags are barbarians as well. What color are they?

It’s the behavior being condemned, not the race, which should be obvious to any person with an ounce of intellectual honesty.

I don’t find their actions barbaric. Gory, yes, but that itself doesn’t bother me all that much.

65 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:02:55pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Today’s assholes are marginally better but tomorrow’s assholes are still going to think we’re dicks.

Everything should be looked at within the context of human social evolution. Today’s good people are tomorrow’s assholes. Thomas Jefferson is a most recent example. FDR is another who may well be demonized for the Japanese internment. Mark Twain would never get a book deal today. It’s hard to judge people from centuries ago within the context of our current values. You look at the whole.

66 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:03:00pm

re: #63 b_sharp

The context is such that it is obvious he was calling them barbarians for their actions, not their race.

I agree, but to some people the context doesn’t matter. Especially to people who want to make Dawkins look like an asshole.

67 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:03:20pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

I don’t find their actions barbaric. Gory, yes, but that itself doesn’t bother me all that much.

Extinction is barbaric.

68 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:06:34pm

re: #51 Gus

The barbarians are always at the gate.

This reminds me of the current brouhaha over Jared Diamond. His points are probably too subtle to be handled properly by the gotcha-media, but essentially Diamond is arguing that the invention of “civilization” is why certain groups of humans have prospered more than others.

69 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:07:13pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

I don’t find their actions barbaric. Gory, yes, but that itself doesn’t bother me all that much.

Rich douchebags doing “trophy hunting” of endangered species - usually in canned settings where the animals are even more helpless - are barbaric, cowardly sadists.

70 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:09:26pm

re: #65 Gus

Everything should be looked at within the context of human social evolution. Today’s good people are tomorrow’s assholes. Thomas Jefferson is a most recent example. FDR is another who may well be demonized for the Japanese internment. Mark Twain would never get a book deal today. It’s hard to judge people from centuries ago within the context of our current values. You look at the whole.

Twain is one of my favorite examples. People regard him a magical enlightened being today. He was certainly ahead of his time but he was by no means a politically correct multicultural saint by modern standards.

71 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:12:29pm

re: #67 b_sharp

Extinction is barbaric.

It is, but a controlled hunt is OK in my eyes. Despite their endangered status, the reality of human-elephant interaction is such that sometimes an elephant has to to be killed for reasons not related to its tusks. When those circumstances arise, some African nations allow a rich person safari the opportunity to shoot the elephant in exchange for a good sized chunk of money.

72 freetoken  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:13:16pm

Jared Diamond says don’t demonise or idealise tribal people

Pulitzer prize-winning author Jared Diamond says traditional people should be neither demonised or idealised.

He’s been under fire from a UK based NGO, Survival international over his latest book which they say suggests that tribal people engage in constant warfare, and need the benevolent hand of the state to stop them killing each other.

Interview:

73 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:13:47pm

re: #68 freetoken

The barbarians are always at the gate.

This reminds me of the current brouhaha over Jared Diamond. His points are probably too subtle to be handled properly by the gotcha-media, but essentially Diamond is arguing that the invention of “civilization” is why certain groups of humans have prospered more than others.

Sitting still in one place and growing your own food was a powerful civilizer.

It’s interesting how technology led to specialization, trade, growing communities and money.

74 Lidane  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:13:56pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

It is, but a controlled hunt is OK in my eyes.

Controlled hunts are cowardly. If you want to hunt an elephant or a bear or whatever, get the fuck out there and face them head on. Shooting them at a game preserve or in a controlled environment is for people who just want to pay money to shoot things for vanity.

75 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:19:47pm

re: #65 Gus

It’s hard to judge people from centuries ago within the context of our current values. You look at the whole.

True, though even in ancient times, some societies were more violent than others. I’m not entirely sure why that was, though it seems to me that a completely peaceful, egalitarian society can only exist in a small, isolated, self-sustaining pocket.

76 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:19:55pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Twain is one of my favorite examples. People regard him a magical enlightened being today. He was certainly ahead of his time but he was by no means a politically correct multicultural saint by modern standards.

General Curtis “Fry Them” LeMay was JFK’s Secretary of the Air Force. I remember getting into small argument with people here in the old LGF whenever I mentioned that JFK was a hawk. That continues to this day. This perception the JFK was a dove. Even his brother was rather hawkish and a strong anti-Communist.

On topic that still doesn’t change the rampant denial that many Americans are in regarding out history. People don’t acknowledge out past flaw such as the case with the barbarous ways of the so called peaceful Pilgrim. Such histories are still controversial. From the Pilgrims to Lincoln’s “Indian killer” image in more alternative circles.

77 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:22:04pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

It’s ok for cowards like Nugent. It’s not ok for real hunters. If it’s not fair chase, it’s not hunting. Culling is, in fact, sometimes necessary however it should never be confused with hunting and no rich pretend hunter should be allowed to do it.

78 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:22:19pm

re: #72 freetoken

Jared Diamond says don’t demonise or idealise tribal people

Interview:

[Embedded content]

But that’s true I think. Should we idolize a tribal people that still engages in the burning of “witches?”

79 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:22:23pm

re: #75 Interesting Times

True, though even in ancient times, some societies were more violent than others. I’m not entirely sure why that was, though it seems to me that a completely peaceful, egalitarian society can only exist in a small, isolated, self-sustaining pocket.

Formalized religions were developed to help preserve the laws that were necessary to resolve friction within a growing population.

80 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:25:47pm

re: #74 Lidane

Controlled hunts are cowardly. If you want to hunt an elephant or a bear or whatever, get the fuck out there and face them head on. Shooting them at a game preserve or in a controlled environment is for people who just want to pay money to shoot things for vanity.

“controlled” ≠ “canned”. “controlled” means properly lawful and licensed.

And now I’m sorry but I have to go to bed.

81 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:31:00pm

re: #78 Gus

But that’s true I think. Should we idolize a tribal people that still engages in the burning of “witches?”

Good point. And that’s where I get all confused - why did some tribes develop such horrid, brutal customs, while others are practically hippies?

82 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:31:36pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

“controlled” ≠ “canned”. “controlled” means properly lawful and licensed.

And now I’m sorry but I have to go to bed.

It might be lawful and licensed but they’re still a bunch of douche nozzles. There’s nothing admirable. It requires little to no skill. There’s no test of stamina or strength. You get driven out by a driver to the hunting site, point your big game rifle to the big beautiful animal, and murder it.

83 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:33:06pm

Damn. What a beautiful white elk. Let’s kill it!

84 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:33:12pm

re: #81 Interesting Times

Good point. And that’s where I get all confused - why did some tribes develop such horrid, brutal customs, while others are practically hippies?

Look at them as evolving. Evolution can only build on what already is and reacts to the environment, including itself.

85 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:33:31pm

re: #83 Gus

Damn. What a beautiful white elk. Let’s kill it!

ITS COMING RIGHT FOR US!

86 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:34:40pm

re: #85 Kragar (Antichrist )

ITS COMING RIGHT FOR US!

Took a lot guts. A man’s man. Why I must have exerted 1 pound of pressure to fire the trigger. Strength!

87 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:34:46pm

re: #85 Kragar (Antichrist )

ITS COMING RIGHT FOR US!

LOOK AT THOSE ANTLERS!!!

88 Interesting Times  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:35:18pm

re: #84 b_sharp

Look at them as evolving. Evolution can only build on what already is and reacts to the environment, including itself.

Almost makes me thinks of Bonobos vs. Chimps (the former being described as “the hippies of the animal kingdom”, while the latter are face-ripping nasties). Could it be the violent tribes got to be that way because early on, they were led and dominated by violent people, while the peaceful tribes lucked out with better founders?

89 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:35:46pm

re: #87 b_sharp

LOOK AT THOSE ANTLERS!!!

Poor elk looks like it has damaged antlers. Better get the shotgun and put it out of its misery. God’s work.

90 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:38:09pm

re: #88 Interesting Times

Almost makes me thinks of Bonobos vs. Chimps (the former being described as “the hippies of the animal kingdom”, while the latter are face-ripping nasties). Could it be the violent tribes got to be that way because early on, they were led and dominated by violent people, while the peaceful tribes lucked out with better founders?

People forget but early Europe was made up of similar tribal people.

91 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:39:17pm

Then again. A lot of people still think that God speaks English and that Adam and Eve rode on dinosaurs and also spoke English and were also pro-gun.

//

92 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:39:19pm

re: #86 Gus

Took a lot guts. A man’s man. Why I must have exerted 1 pound of pressure to fire the trigger. Strength!

Luckily I had a 50 round drum.

93 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:39:49pm

re: #88 Interesting Times

Almost makes me thinks of Bonobos vs. Chimps (the former being described as “the hippies of the animal kingdom”, while the latter are face-ripping nasties). Could it be the violent tribes got to be that way because early on, they were led and dominated by violent people, while the peaceful tribes lucked out with better founders?

That could be, but I wouldn’t expect it to be that simple. The environment may have demanded high testosterone violent males to dominate, which would have caused the females to prefer them over less violent.

Every time I mentally trace possible evolutionary “affects and effects”"evolutionary stable strategies” within a given ecology, I get lost in the growing complexity.

94 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:41:00pm

re: #92 Kragar (Antichrist )

Luckily I had a 50 round drum.

Yeah. I saw some video of some other douche nozzle coyote hunting with an AR-15. Laughing all the while. Gone are the days of the bolt action rifle hunters. Now it’s like a video game for these people. One round after the other.

95 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:41:52pm

I was backpacking in upstate New York many decades ago. Met up with a bow hunter. I admired his words. He didn’t like gun hunters.

96 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:42:47pm

re: #94 Gus

Yeah. I saw some video of some other douche nozzle coyote hunting with an AR-15. Laughing all the while. Gone are the days of the bolt action rifle hunters. Now it’s like a video game for these people. One round after the other.

Anyone who really knows guns knows a guy with a bolt action rifle who knows how to use it is far scarier than a dip shit with an assault rifle.

97 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:43:08pm

re: #95 Gus

I was backpacking in upstate New York many decades ago. Met up with a bow hunter. I admired his words. He didn’t like gun hunters.

I have several bows but only one non functioning rifle. I lean toward his views.

98 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:44:19pm

Ack. Just thought of something. Drone hunting. Now there’s something I would oppose.

99 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:44:27pm

re: #95 Gus

I was backpacking in upstate New York many decades ago. Met up with a bow hunter. I admired his words. He didn’t like gun hunters.

Buddy and I went “hunting” once. We just tried to get as close as we could without spooking the animals. We figured killing them wasn’t worth it for them or us.

100 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:47:22pm

re: #95 Gus

I was backpacking in upstate New York many decades ago. Met up with a bow hunter. I admired his words. He didn’t like gun hunters.

I’ve found more than a few deer carcasses (or skeletons…) lost with arrows sticking out of them. Which is better; that or a drop in it’s tracks from a proper centerfire rifle? I like meat in my freezer…

101 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:53:16pm

re: #100 William Barnett-Lewis

I’ve found more than a few deer carcasses (or skeletons…) lost with arrows sticking out of them. Which is better; that or a drop in it’s tracks from a proper centerfire rifle? I like meat in my freezer…

Yeah. It’s still automatic and not really an impressive feat in these modern times as most hunters make it out to be. Oh mighty hunter! Without their skills the tribe would not survive! Those days are long gone.

102 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:55:27pm

Like fox hunts in England. Not impressed.

103 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:55:54pm

The Mighty Hunter

The character of the mighty hunter is the epitome of the braggart—full of tall tales and self glorification. His hunts are often violent and always exaggerated—wrestling alligators or hunting bees. The most popular mighty hunter is Davy Crockett. Not only a famous frontiersman, politician and fiery orator; Davy was a storyteller and hunter known throughout the country for his bravery, cunning and humor. Crockett’s Bear Hunting in Tennessee (1834) is an exemplary tale of what contemporary readers expected of a mighty hunter and of Crockett himself. For Crockett, “one hundred and five bears I had killed in less than one year…” was a plausible claim!

Continues.

104 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:56:57pm

Basically hunters are just pushing a button. Nothing to write home about.

105 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:02:06pm

Bowling, golf, curling, bocci ball, checkers, crossword puzzles… hunting. Same difference.

106 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:05:23pm

re: #104 Gus

Basically hunters are just pushing a button. Nothing to write home about.

Ya, sure, you betcha.

Come to Wisconsin next November. We can go out into the Chequamegon National Forest and I’ll be happy to show you how much work it is to stalk a white tail deer.

107 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:13:04pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

Ya, sure, you betcha.

Come to Wisconsin next November. We can go out into the Chequamegon National Forest and I’ll be happy to show you how much work it is to stalk a white tail deer.

Meh. Most hobbies require a lot of work.

108 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:13:56pm

Takes a lot of work to create a big old HO model railroad layout.

109 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:17:07pm

re: #108 Gus

Takes a lot of work to create a big old HO model railroad layout.

It sure does.

even better

110 Mich-again  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:19:41pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

I’ll be happy to show you how much work it is to stalk a white tail deer.

Work or luck?

True that to really be successful a hunter has to be out in the woods and the fields year round to know where the deer are and what their habits and tendencies are. But once deer season starts, and you pick the spot to sit there and wait, luck plays a part in what strolls past you.

111 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:20:39pm

re: #108 Gus

Takes a lot of work to create a big old HO model railroad layout.

Image: Trench_War_Table_1.jpg

112 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:20:50pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

Ya, sure, you betcha.

Come to Wisconsin next November. We can go out into the Chequamegon National Forest and I’ll be happy to show you how much work it is to stalk a white tail deer.

Just funnin’ with ya’. I have nothing against deer hunters. Regular subsistence hunters. I just hate big game hunter assholes.

113 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:21:35pm

I caused a NYTimes article to be edited this morning.

As the Competition Heats Up, So Does a Fight Over Homegrown Peppers

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: February 22, 2013

An earlier version of this article referred incorrectly to the existence of an official state question. The state of New Mexico adopted an official state question, “Red or green?,” in 1996; it is not the case that no such distinction exists.

That was fun, but not quite Pageworthy.

114 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:27:16pm

re: #110 Mich-again

Work or luck?

True that to really be successful a hunter has to be out in the woods and the fields year round to know where the deer are and what their habits and tendencies are. But once deer season starts, and you pick the spot to sit there and wait, luck plays a part in what strolls past you.

Meh, never could sit still long enough to play the tree stand game. I’m always out “still hunting”. Slowly walking through the forest, looking for tracks, scat & other sign. It’s only been since I’ve been up here in Hayward (since last summer) that I’ve ever been able to scout a location in advance. Working a field of corn or the edge of a wood line is far more enjoyable than sitting on my duff hoping bambi walks by.

115 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:27:34pm

I also approve of bazookas and/or RPGs against cars whose car alarms are going off for hours.

116 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:28:27pm

re: #115 Gus

I also approve of bazookas and/or RPGs against cars whose car alarms are going off for hours.

That I find easy to agree with. I do not miss that aspect of big city life! LOL!

117 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:29:36pm

re: #116 William Barnett-Lewis

That I find easy to agree with. I do not miss that aspect of big city life! LOL!

118 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:32:12pm

The use and ownership of RPGs and bazookas shall be expressly prohibited unless at those times when they are being used against a car whose car alarm has been going off for more than 59 minutes.

119 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:34:04pm

re: #114 William Barnett-Lewis

Meh, never could sit still long enough to play the tree stand game. I’m always out “still hunting”. Slowly walking through the forest, looking for tracks, scat & other sign. It’s only been since I’ve been up here in Hayward (since last summer) that I’ve ever been able to scout a location in advance. Working a field of corn or the edge of a wood line is far more enjoyable than sitting on my duff hoping bambi walks by.

I’ve crossed paths with deer and javalina on my 14 block trip home from downtown. No shooting allowed in town, of course. And I haven’t done any shooting since the sixties, in northern Wisconsin, and that was with a BB gun at a paper plate on a tree. I was good, though!

120 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:35:28pm

re: #115 Gus

I also approve of bazookas and/or RPGs against cars whose car alarms are going off for hours.

Gah! I had one of those a few weeks back. It went off every 10 minutes or so like clockwork for 10 HOURS. I kid you not. I don’t know how in the hell the battery lasted so long, or why they didn’t just disconnect it, but it was right outside my window and it drove me nuts—10 minutes is just long enough for you to forget about it, then *WHOOP, WHOOP, WHOOP…*

121 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:39:10pm

Obama asks Supreme Court to overturn same-sex marriage ban

The Barack Obama administration on Friday formally asked the US Supreme Court to strike down a 1996 law defining marriage exclusively as a union between a man and a woman.

The request was contained in a legal brief filed to the US high court, whose nine justices plan next month to review whether or not to repeal the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which bans marriage between homosexuals.

According to the filing, the law “violates the fundamental constitutional guarantee of equal protection” before the law stipulated by the US Constitution.

DOMA “denies to tens of thousands of same-sex couples who are legally married under state law an array of important federal benefits that are available to legally married opposite-sex couples,” read the brief signed by US Solicitor General Donald Verrilli.

122 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:39:13pm

That damn Nein deleted a tweet after I favorited it and posted it here

Before there was twitter there was brushing your teeth and going to bed at a decent hour.

— Nein. (@NeinQuarterly) February 22, 2013

I could have used it as my nightly sign off.

Hasta mañana.

123 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:40:22pm

re: #120 CuriousLurker

Gah! I had one of those a few weeks back. It went off every 10 minutes or so like clockwork for 10 HOURS. I kid you not. I don’t know how in the hell the battery lasted so long, or why they didn’t just disconnect it, but it was right outside my window and drove me nuts—10 minutes is just long enough for you to forget about it, then *WHOOP, WHOOP, WHOOP…*

I had a neighbor once. Some Jeep. His car alarm was always going off. It would include, “Invasion, Invasion” in the car alarm loop. Talk about annoying. One night some other car was almost broken into right next to it. Was looking out the window and some person broke the window of a car and I yelled out “hey!” He ran off. I called the cops. They came. I gave my story. At the same time the one half of the cop team turned out to hate me or something. He walked off and spent most of the time on his cell phone. I figured he was probably breaking up with his girlfriend or something.

124 Mich-again  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:41:10pm

re: #117 Gus

125 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:41:41pm

re: #124 Mich-again

126 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:41:42pm

re: #120 CuriousLurker

Gah! I had one of those a few weeks back….

I meant a car alarm going off, NOT a bazooka or RPG, people! Sheesh.

Reminds me of the time I was tweeting about adding wires to an armature and a fellow lizard replied that I might wanna clarify that I was talking about a paper clay sculpture, NOT A BOMB, fer cryin’ out loud. LOL

127 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:41:44pm

re: #124 Mich-again

Flamethrowers it is then.

128 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:43:54pm

re: #127 Kragar (Antichrist )

Flamethrowers it is then.

Neutron bomb. Maybe HAARP would work.

129 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:49:03pm

Sleepy time. G’nite, all.

130 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:51:07pm

re: #100 William Barnett-Lewis

I’ve found more than a few deer carcasses (or skeletons…) lost with arrows sticking out of them. Which is better; that or a drop in it’s tracks from a proper centerfire rifle? I like meat in my freezer…

No guarantee with that. Group that I have hunted with have “lost” shot deer, including one whose corpse we actually found a few days later. A rifle is more likely to be fatal than a arrow, but you still have to hit it in a spot that will prove fatal fairly soon - and then often have to be able to track the animal a distance unless you’ve hit it in a spot that incapacitates it rapidly. And they will often run 80-100 yards away even then.

131 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:54:03pm

For a while, Camp Lejeune sold blow guns in the PX. Seeing seagulls flying around with a dart sticking out of them was a daily occurrence.

132 Mich-again  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 10:54:39pm

I read about Ted Nugent’s 2013 concert tour where he will allegedly celebrate black power and somehow through music propose better solutions than the Democrats have done. I say if Ted is serious and really wants to try to help out African American kids then have at it. I would even offer to take him into some of the Detroit Public schools that I have volunteered at in the last few years to see firsthand what kind of environment these kids have to learn in. He might actually turn out to be a force for the good once he gets away from the Kooks in Texas and back to his hometown.

133 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:00:16pm

re: #130 Feline Fearless Leader

No guarantee with that. Group that I have hunted with have “lost” shot deer, including one whose corpse we actually found a few days later. A rifle is more likely to be fatal than a arrow, but you still have to hit it in a spot that will prove fatal fairly soon - and then often have to be able to track the animal a distance unless you’ve hit it in a spot that incapacitates it rapidly. And they will often run 80-100 yards away even then.

Oh, I know. Had to help a good friend chase a gut shot buck for almost 8 hours before I finally finished it in a creek bed. He shot it almost at (just after, that is :O ) sunrise. It was just shy of 2:30 when we finally downed it for good.

It can be hard work tracking a wounded animal. But there is only little excuse to not do so.

134 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:06:11pm

re: #133 William Barnett-Lewis

Oh, I know. Had to help a good friend chase a gut shot buck for almost 8 hours before I finally finished it in a creek bed. He shot it almost at (just after, that is :O ) sunrise. It was just shy of 2:30 when we finally downed it for good.

It can be hard work tracking a wounded animal. But there is only little excuse to not do so.

Yep. Been on multi-hour tracking sessions as well. And since we were hunting in re-mediated strip mine areas it was a mix of heavy scrub and saplings along with up and down around old spill piles.

135 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:10:37pm
136 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:17:03pm
137 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:20:11pm
138 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:23:45pm
139 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:24:09pm

Considering what you’re up to, Gus, here’s this:

And with that, good night all.

140 engineer cat  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:26:49pm

this is a very literate thread

i read an essay that compared the first and second great awakening to hippies - young folk embarassing their sedate elders with their idealistic and ecstatic spiritual outbursts

141 engineer cat  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:29:41pm

oh and puddy been sleeping on daddy’s lap

142 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:31:26pm
143 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:36:08pm
144 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:36:37pm

re: #143 Kragar (Antichrist )

[Embedded content]

145 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:40:45pm

re: #144 Gus

[Embedded content]

146 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:42:06pm

re: #145 Kragar (Antichrist )

[Embedded content]

147 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:45:30pm

re: #146 Gus

[Embedded content]

148 Gus  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:46:52pm

re: #147 Kragar (Antichrist )

[Embedded content]

149 Kragar (Antichrist )  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:51:00pm
150 boredtechindenver  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:54:32pm
151 boredtechindenver  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:56:03pm
152 boredtechindenver  Fri, Feb 22, 2013 11:58:01pm
153 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:00:04am
154 Kragar (Antichrist )  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:02:22am
155 boredtechindenver  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:03:50am
156 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:22:02am

Niman hao, mein scaly drughi!

Life’s a dream here in South Texas.

The doomstead progresses - the foundations and walls of the main castle and keep are up, and the chicken coop, composting area, and vegetable gardens are all in. Comes March, I plant my first crops.

The greywater system managed to pass muster with the county, as did the composting toilet, so no need to hook up to the mains or any other utilities.

And how’s every little thing?

157 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:34:28am

Some local green-types got wind of what I’ve been up to and decided they wanted to profile me and my project for their little blog.

A reek of patchouli and hippy-stank preceded them, and they were surprised to sip tea (pu ‘erh) in the travel trailer of a heidegger-quoting conservative who was building a permaculture residential system.

“Why are you doing all this?”

“Because I’m cheap, and this works.”

Who says earthbags and catch-ponds and all the rest of it have politics?

158 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:36:40am

re: #156 Guanxi88

Niman hao, mein scaly drughi!

Life’s a dream here in South Texas.

The doomstead progresses - the foundations and walls of the main castle and keep are up, and the chicken coop, composting area, and vegetable gardens are all in. Comes March, I plant my first crops.

The greywater system managed to pass muster with the county, as did the composting toilet, so no need to hook up to the mains or any other utilities.

And how’s every little thing?

My drones see no moat.
Why u have no moat???

159 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:37:25am

re: #158 Varek Raith

Drought, buddy. Just give it some time, and that greywater’ll take care of it.

160 freetoken  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:38:40am
161 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:39:24am

re: #158 Varek Raith

And have you ever tried digging in caliche? I’m doing this on the cheap. I’ve hired no labor for any of it. A moat would take years.

162 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:41:34am

re: #51 Gus

I’m glad the author used the word “barbarous.” It’s an important word. The other day Richard Dawkins called rhino poachers barbarians. Sadly he caught heat from many people declaring him “racist.” Not so. They are barbarians. A useful word.

Do look at in the context of what the Conquistadores were doing in South and Central America. No less barbrous actions from “civilised” (I use the British spellyinge) Europeans

163 freetoken  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:42:16am

re: #161 Guanxi88

A moat would take years.

[Link: chemistry.about.com…]

164 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:42:34am

re: #162 Sol Berdinowitz

This is life, sad to say. The strong take from the weak.

All we can do is try to live with it and not do the same.

165 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:43:12am

re: #163 freetoken

[Link: chemistry.about.com…]

This is Texas, but even here, there are limits.

166 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:46:43am

re: #117 Gus

I approve of bazookas and/or RPGs against cars whose car alarms are going off for hours.

We had a particularly nasty cold snap in the Midwest in 1978, and car alarm all over were going off just becuse the cold cause the contacts to shrink and separate. They were going off all up and down the street, and I was ready to commit mayhem on them and their owners at one point.

167 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:49:32am

Yup. Earthbag walls 3 feet thick, two storeys high. First floor ceilings will be 10 feet, second floor, a little lower, but still high.

In this climate, heat’s the killer. The roof will be fully two feet thick - earth held down by buffalo grass.

Should be nice and cool, and, with earth-coupling through underground cooling tubes, no real need for anything more than a bit of ventilation on the hottest days.

Comes winter, a small rocket-stove should suffice. I;m used to cold, anyway, (well, Texas cold); a year in a travel trailer will toughen you up like that.

168 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:51:05am

re: #167 Guanxi88

Yup. Earthbag walls 3 feet thick, two storeys high. First floor ceilings will be 10 feet, second floor, a little lower, but still high.

In this climate, heat’s the killer. The roof will be fully two feet thick - earth held down by buffalo grass.

Should be nice and cool, and, with earth-coupling through underground cooling tubes, no real need for anything more than a bit of ventilation on the hottest days.

Comes winter, a small rocket-stove should suffice. I;m used to cold, anyway, (well, Texas cold); a year in a travel trailer will toughen you up like that.

Got proper zombie traps?

169 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:51:40am

re: #168 Varek Raith

Better. I’ve got bait-stations. There are three towns within 20 miles.

170 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:53:41am

And, between digging caliche and filling and stacking bags, I’ve managed to finish four chapters of a novel I’m writing.

Amazing, the things one can accomplish.

171 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:55:44am

For breakfast today, I walked out to the henhouse, collected four fresh eggs, and made an omelette. Best meal of the day.

Got one hen - Gertrude - who’d better make with the eggs, or she’ll end up in the stockpot. Otherwise, no complaints.

172 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:57:55am

re: #167 Guanxi88

We built a house in Germany with geothermal heating, extra insulation, gray water recycling and solar roof panels. And, like yourself, we did it mainly out of economic considerations: it cost a bit of money up front that we could have invested in luxury fittings, but it will pay for itself down the line.

173 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 12:59:33am

re: #172 Sol Berdinowitz

For me, broke as I am, this is the only way I could live. I’m not rich enough to be able to afford a conventional house in town with all the trimmings.

This is how most of mankind have lived for most of history, and they’ve done well with it. No reason it shouldn’t work for me.

174 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:00:54am

Solar’s not cheap, but it’ll have to do for now. With batteries and conservation, I can limp along until I can install a windmill.

Most of my power goes for water-pumping right now, anyway.

175 dell*nix  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:02:30am

re: #166 Sol Berdinowitz

The girlfriends ‘93 Mustang 5.0 GT tends to set off improperly set alarms when we drive by. Makes for a few laughs.

Have been glad I did not have a 12 gauage at times. Some alarms are too tempting not to deal with.

176 dell*nix  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:03:47am

re: #171 Guanxi88

That was how Grandma decided on Sunday dinner main course.

177 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:03:47am

re: #173 Guanxi88

For me, broke as I am, this is the only way I could live. I’m not rich enough to be able to afford a conventional house in town with all the trimmings.

This is how most of mankind have lived for most of history, and they’ve done well with it. No reason it shouldn’t work for me.

I think of all the cool marble sinks, gold-plated fittings and designer furniture we could’ve installed in our house for the money we invested in all that energy & resource-saving stuff.

And I see it as a parable to the modern economy: we measure wealth & preosperity in terms of how much cool stuff we have, and not in how well we are using the resources at hand.

178 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:04:31am

The chickens were a strategic decision, you know. With this crappy soil, the garden would need TONS of material to amend it.

Well, two chickens produce as much soiled bedding as a single cow. And I’ve got 8 hens and a rooster. So, my soil’s pretty well prepared for the first crop.

Learned all this stuff from reading VITA publications, “Permaculture”, and “Farmers of Forty Centuries.” And talking with the older folk, who remembered what their parents and grandparents did, back in the day.

179 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:05:56am

re: #177 Sol Berdinowitz

Reminds me of that new story - I think it was in ‘04 or so - about the millionaire fugitive financiers whose bodies were found on their yacht off the African coast.

They’d starved to death.

180 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:07:18am

re: #179 Guanxi88

Reminds me of that new story - I think it was in ‘04 or so - about the millionaire fugitive financiers whose bodies were found on their yacht off the African coast.

They’d starved to death.

It was ‘09. Lord, how time passes.

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk…]

181 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:11:01am

re: #178 Guanxi88

Nothing beats a chicken egg that is still warm from the chicken. One thing I learned, though: don’t try to hard-boil a freshly laid egg, they are impossible to peel without taking off half the egg white with them, the membrane is still too tightly attached to the shell, it takes some time for that to dry out & separate.

182 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:12:06am

Garden - veggies for me, corn for the chickens.

Self-sufficient? Hardly. But it’s cheap and it works. And in time, it might work better still. Neighbor - 20 miles up the road - keeps sheep and goats. I’ve established relations with him, with a view to trade at some point. I’ll let him graze my land if he wants, for some meat and a bit of wool.

183 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:14:18am

I’m working on a permit now to dig a pond (a “tank” they call it here) for livestock.

With my half-way decent well, it would be a useful adjunct to the greywater system, and would let me raise some catfish and such.

Permaculture, people. It freakin’ works.

184 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:17:24am

re: #181 Sol Berdinowitz

I fry ‘em, or make an omelette. Went to the doctor a month ago. A hard life I live - no car, I bike 15 miles a day to work; heavy labor on my days off - he says I’m as healthy as an man even half my age. Almost no body fat - and I was a fatty back in the day - strong as hell, and, amazingly enough, it was poverty that did this to me.

I’ve no money, and am richer than ever I’ve been.

185 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:23:01am

And when my children visit - I’m divorced - they have blast. Chasing chickens, helping me cook and build.

The oldest told me it’s like summer camp every time she comes to see me.

Life is beautiful, and we are all far wealthier than we know.

Escape the rat-race, people. It’s not too late. And if this Nixon-loving, Eliot-quoting, right-winger is telling you this, you can be assured it’s not some hippy-dippy feel-good crap. It’s real.

186 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:35:53am

Case in point about the wealth. I went to price rugs for the house. Once the roof is up, it’s more or less ready for move-in, and so I need to start thinking about these things.

Impossibly expensive, I decided. So I went and hit the thrift stores, buying up old coats and anything made of wool.

Cut them all up into strips, and braided it all up. It took me some time - but my time is cheap - but I braided it all up int a houseful of rugs, worth thousands of dollars if bought.

Hell, I could probably sell these things, if I wanted to. But I’m content with them for my own use.

Our great-grandparents did this. Why can’t we?

187 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 1:38:56am

re: #185 Guanxi88

And if this Nixon-loving, Eliot-quoting, right-winger is telling you this, you can be assured it’s not some hippy-dippy feel-good crap. It’s real.

If the “Free Market” were set up so that the price of goods reflected their actual costs (from production to disposal), then a lot more of us would be living this way, and not just out of hippy-dippy idealism, but out of sound economic interest.

But, to paraphrase Adam Smith, we have come to the point where people serve the markets, the markets no longer serve the people. And when they collapse, it takes nothing less than a government bailout to repair them.

188 Guanxi88  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 2:06:19am

re: #187 Sol Berdinowitz

There, I’m going to have to disagree with you.

If Man as an individual fails, what makes us think ourselves aby wiser int he aggregate?

No, I’d just as soon sink or swim on my own, without involving or entailing others.

189 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 2:14:36am

re: #188 Guanxi88

There, I’m going to have to disagree with you.

If Man as an individual fails, what makes us think ourselves aby wiser int he aggregate?

No, I’d just as soon sink or swim on my own, without involving or entailing others.

I am not saying that it is a good thing for government to bail us out, the role of government is to allow individuals to succeed, but on fair and even terms.

That means maintaining an infrastructure, not just a physical one, but a legal and organizational infrastructure that ensures that market prices reflect actual costs and does not allow producers to hide their costs, both environmental and social, down the line or downstream where everyone has to pick up the tab.

190 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 3:00:24am

re: #171 Guanxi88

For breakfast today, I walked out to the henhouse, collected four fresh eggs, and made an omelette. Best meal of the day.

Got one hen - Gertrude - who’d better make with the eggs, or she’ll end up in the stockpot. Otherwise, no complaints.

:D

191 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 3:05:32am

re: #190 Feline Fearless Leader

“I don’t want to be a PIE!!!”

192 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 3:47:07am

re: #178 Guanxi88

The chickens were a strategic decision, you know. With this crappy soil, the garden would need TONS of material to amend it.

Well, two chickens produce as much soiled bedding as a single cow. And I’ve got 8 hens and a rooster. So, my soil’s pretty well prepared for the first crop.

Learned all this stuff from reading VITA publications, “Permaculture”, and “Farmers of Forty Centuries.” And talking with the older folk, who remembered what their parents and grandparents did, back in the day.

We did some of this in the early 70s (our Hippie/Tolstoy/Franciscan phase). The gospel for the movement at that time was “Five Acres and Independance”. And Mother Earth News, of course.

193 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 3:56:36am

re: #116 William Barnett-Lewis

There is a special place in Hell for the person that invented car alarms. Right next to the person responsible for telemarketers.

194 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 4:01:50am

re: #178 Guanxi88

The chickens were a strategic decision, you know. With this crappy soil, the garden would need TONS of material to amend it.

Before we kept chickens in the back yard, I was able to cut it with a push mower. After a summer of chickens shitting on it, I had to buy a power mower to get through it…

195 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 4:03:51am

Lower Alabama is at 68 degrees, an hour before dawn. Flash floods from the third 5-6 inch rainfall in three weeks has cut some of the roads in our neighborhood, another storm today, and one on tap for Monday.

196 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 4:05:04am

re: #194 Sol Berdinowitz

Before we kept chickens in the back yard, I was able to cut it with a push mower. After a summer of chickens shitting on it, I had to buy a power mower to get through it…

Chickens are in on it with Big Oil.

197 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 4:09:37am

re: #187 Sol Berdinowitz

If the “Free Market” were set up so that the price of goods reflected their actual costs (from production to disposal), then a lot more of us would be living this way, and not just out of hippy-dippy idealism, but out of sound economic interest.

But, to paraphrase Adam Smith, we have come to the point where people serve the markets, the markets no longer serve the people. And when they collapse, it takes nothing less than a government bailout to repair them.

It’s why I often compare the system of commerce we call ‘capitalism’ to a religion. In it, like in the Catholic Church, we are but mortals who serve immortal institutions.

198 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 4:17:51am

re: #197 Romantic Heretic

It’s why I often compare the system of commerce we call ‘capitalism’ to a religion. In it, like in the Catholic Church, we are but mortals who serve immortal institutions.

I see the free market as a mechanism to help balance supply and demand and to direct flows of capital to where they will do the most good.

Others see the Free Market as an ideology, and like with many other ideologies or religions, they are willing to sacrifice mere mortals to please it.

199 efuseakay  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 6:22:40am

Is it any surprise to anyone that this is the kind of life modern day wingnuts pine for whenever they hoot and holler about “REMEMBER THE FOUNDERS!”?

200 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 6:28:44am

re: #199 efuseakay

Is it any surprise to anyone that this is the kind of life modern day wingnuts pine for whenever they hoot and holler about “REMEMBER THE FOUNDERS!”?

In their minds, we are all still living on 40 acres we have carved out of the pristine wilderness, self-suficient, beholden to no one and not compelled to enter into any contract with anyone else unless it advances our self-interest.

We have no use for a central government except to help us keep those pesky natives at bay, the ones who insist that we have somehow stolen their land from them, really, it’s not like they were using it for any constructive purpose…

201 efuseakay  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 6:39:20am

re: #200 Sol Berdinowitz

Natives? You mean varmints. Infestations!

/

202 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 6:48:40am

Joe Bonamassa is just what this song needed.

203 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:07:01am
204 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:25:20am

OT Breaking news gunman spotted on MIT campus. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

205 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:32:24am

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

OT Breaking news gunman spotted on MIT campus. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Fuck. Please, please, please let it be a dumb cosplayer or something.

206 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:38:57am

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

OT Breaking news gunman spotted on MIT campus. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

[Link: www.boston.com…]

Cambridge police: ‘No threat to public safety’ at MIT

Cambridge Police @CambridgePolice

Scene is clear. Call unfounded. No threat to public safety in #CambMA #MIT

207 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:39:07am

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

OT Breaking news gunman spotted on MIT campus. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Until he brandishes the weapon or opens fire then he is simply excercising his 2nd Amendment rights.

/

208 dragonath  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:39:56am
209 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:41:13am

Mornin’ everyone.

210 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:41:29am

re: #206 sattv4u2

Yes. I just saw that on CNN website and updated my page.

211 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:44:12am

[Link: www.pressherald.com…]

The sequester was the ransom House Republicans took to end their hostage-taking of the economy in the summer of 2011.

I don’t think hiding behind Fox News is going to work for Boehner this week.

212 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 7:55:07am
213 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:03:08am

Aw, shit…did I miss the Rapture again?

214 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:08:20am
215 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:08:32am

re: #212 darthstar

It’s hard for them to avoid. They’re the party of cutting spending. The sequester is a gigantic spending cut. They should be all for it. But they want to blame Obama for anything that occurs that has negative consequences. Big spending cuts have negative consequences. So they want to blame Obama for the sequester.

The Republicans would be a lot happier if they could drop their insane minarchism, but once you’ve drunk that bizarre one way cut-taxes-good, cut-spending-good koolaid, it seems like you can’t give it up.

217 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:25:35am

Watched “Who is Harry Nilsson?” last night. Great documentary. I didn’t know he did the soundtrack for the movie version of Popeye (the Robin Williams one)…since my wife’s never seen the movie (and she loves Nilsson) I went to add it to our instant queue…of course, fucking Netflix doesn’t have it.

But since I searched for “Popeye” on Netflix, some Marty Feldman movies did come up in the results, so a re-watching of “The Last Remake of Beau Geste” is in the cards.

218 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:27:41am

Four arrested in Egypt for ‘Harlem Shake’

EGYPTIAN police have arrested four students who filmed themselves publicly dancing in their underwear - possibly emulating an Australian-inspired Youtube number called the Harlem Shake.

The four pharmaceutical students shocked residents of a middle class Cairo neighbourhood when they removed most of their clothes and videotaped themselves performing the pelvis-thrusting dance, a police official said on Saturday.

The hostile audience tried to assault the students, who are accused of committing “a scandalous act,” the official added.

Egypt has strict public indecency laws.

Some Egyptians have posted videos of themselves on Youtube doing the Harlem Shake in front of the pyramids.

One of them, dressed in white underwear and a bow tie, dances while riding a camel.

219 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:27:53am

re: #115 Gus

I also approve of bazookas and/or RPGs against cars whose car alarms are going off for hours.

Don’t be so sloppy, Gus. Even the NRA doesn’t approve of that. Do it the NRA-approved way and take out the alarm system with aimed rifle rifle. Just make the point you were being assaulted by the sound and stood your ground against it.

///

220 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:30:21am

re: #218 Killgore Trout

One of them, dressed in white underwear and a bow tie, dances while riding a camel.

I wonder if the camel got arrested too!

221 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:31:10am

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

Don’t be so sloppy, Gus. Even the NRA doesn’t approve of that. Do it the NRA-approved way and take out the alarm system with aimed rifle rifle. Just make the point you were being assaulted by the sound and stood your ground against it.

///

My eyes were just assaulted by that post!

222 makeitstop  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:32:37am

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

Don’t be so sloppy, Gus. Even the NRA doesn’t approve of that. Do it the NRA-approved way and take out the alarm system with aimed rifle rifle. Just make the point you were being assaulted by the sound and stood your ground against it.

///

When we were planning the construction of the addition to our house, I petitioned for a gun turret so I could take out the speakers on the ice cream trucks that roll through our neighborhood all day, every day in the summer.

That idea never made it to the final plans, but I still believe it was a good idea.

223 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:32:43am

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Four arrested in Egypt for ‘Harlem Shake’

Here’s the Harlem Shake:

And another video I feel must be posted in response to the story:

224 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:33:05am

re: #220 sattv4u2

Transporting a douche without a license.

225 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:35:05am

re: #222 makeitstop

When we were planning the construction of the addition to our house, I petitioned for a gun turret so I could take out the speakers on the ice cream trucks that roll through our neighborhood all day, every day in the summer.

That idea never made it to the final plans, but I still believe it was a good idea.

NSFW.

226 Bubblehead II  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:35:23am

Morning Lizards. Snow Day :-)

227 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:35:43am

re: #220 sattv4u2


One of them, dressed in white underwear and a bow tie, dances while riding a camel.

I wonder if the camel got arrested too!

Riding a camel? But it’s not even hump day!

228 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:36:06am

I watched Zero Dark Thirty last night. It was ok but I don’t think it was passed over for awards because the politics of enhanced interrogation. It just wasn’t a very good movie. Entertaining enough but not great cinema.

229 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:37:46am

re: #227 darthstar

Riding a camel? But it’s not even hump day!

Just a once a week kinda guy, are ya!

230 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:42:03am

re: #229 sattv4u2

Just a once a week kinda guy, are ya!

Stamina. There isn’t time to do it twice.

231 dragonath  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:47:26am

re: #228 Killgore Trout

If the approach of the Americans made heavy bass thuds like they did in the trailer, we would have never captured Bin Laden.

232 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:54:56am

re: #230 darthstar

Stamin a. There isn’t time to do it twice.

You’re a special flower!

233 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 8:58:32am

re: #231 dragonath

If the approach of the Americans made heavy bass thuds like they did in the trailer, we would have never captured Bin Laden.

We didn’t capture him, the SEALs blew his head off.

234 darthstar  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:01:19am

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

We didn’t capture him, the SEALs blew his head off.

It counts.

235 makeitstop  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:02:17am

FLOTUS, Mom Dancing with Fallon.

Cue the cries of how ‘undignified’ this is from the RWNJs in 3…2…1…

236 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:03:12am

re: #231 dragonath

If the approach of the Americans made heavy bass thuds like they did in the trailer, we would have never captured Bin Laden.

The movie did remind me of a few lose ends to the story. We haven’t heard much from Bin Laden’s wives. Pakistan held them for a while, then sent them back to their countries of origin (saudi, yemen, etc) but they haven’t been heard from since. No interviews or book deals telling their version of the raid or what life was like in the compound. Also, one of Bin Laden’s sons who was reportedly in the compound is still missing. He was one of the younger ones (18-19) and was being groomed as the heir apparent to Al Qaeda. There were initial reports that one male captive was taken from the compound by the seal team but it might have been a false report or he might be still held somewhere. If he escaped or simply wasn’t there he sure is laying low. No signs of him and nobody seems curious about him.

237 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:03:20am

Gotta go. BBT

238 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:04:17am

re: #236 Killgore Trout

The movie did remind me of a few lose ends to the story. We haven’t heard much from Bin Laden’s wives. Pakistan held them for a while, then sent them back to their countries of origin (saudi, yemen, etc) but they haven’t been heard from since. No interviews or book deals telling their version of the raid or what life was like in the compound. Also, one of Bin Laden’s sons who was reportedly in the compound is still missing. He was one of the younger ones (18-19) and was being groomed as the heir apparent to Al Qaeda. There were initial reports that one male captive was taken from the compound by the seal team but it might have been a false report or he might be still held somewhere. If he escaped or simply wasn’t there he sure is laying low. No signs of him and nobody seems curious about him.

I only heard of one son in the compound, that being Khalid, whom the SEALs shot dead.

BBT for real.

239 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:04:46am

re: #207 Sol Berdinowitz

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

“OT Breaking news gunman spotted on MIT campus. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]”

Until he brandishes the weapon or opens fire then he is simply excercising his 2nd Amendment rights.

@intelwire: @20committee Or given that it’s MIT, could be something equally harmless, like aluminum tubes for enriching uranium.

240 dragonath  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:06:03am

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

I was being sarcastic anyway. I’m talking about those (THUD../fade to black) transitions popular among film editors today

241 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:06:51am

re: #233 Dark_Falcon

We didn’t capture him, the SEALs blew his head off.

LIES
He’s in witness protection, his identity has been changed and he’s living in a small ranch house in Arizona with Elvis and Henry Hill (Ray Liota) lamenting that they ordered spaghetti with marinara sauce and got egg noodles with ketchup

242 makeitstop  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:09:06am

re: #241 sattv4u2

LIES
He’s in witness protection, his identity has been changed and he’s living in a small ranch house in Arizona with Elvis and Henry Hill (Ray Liota) lamenting that they ordered spaghetti with marinara sauce and got egg noodles with ketchup

…living the rest of his life like a schnook.

243 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:09:11am

re: #235 makeitstop

FLOTUS, Mom Dancing with Fallon.

[Embedded content]

Cue the cries of how ‘undignified’ this is from the RWNJs in 3…2…1…

That got Paged here. Since I’m TV deprived, can you tell me 1.) who is that doing the introduction, and 2.) is he trying to look exactly like Steve Allen on purpose?

244 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:10:06am

I wondered what the hubub was about Ben Carson so I watched a talk he gave at Liberty University. A refined derp in a bowtie.

245 erik_t  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:10:56am

Welcome to the year 2013 in the state of North Dakota.

Red River fans apparently dress as Ku Klux Klan for hockey game
A photo appearing to show Grand Forks Red River High School hockey fans dressed in white hoods and robes similar to those of the Ku Klux Klan surfaced on the social media site Twitter on Friday evening.

The photo, taken by UND student Shane Schuster during Red River’s state semifinal game against Fargo Davies, shows a section of fans wearing white clothing and white face paint. In the center, three fans wear white robes and pointed hoods.

“I guess the red river highschoolers are racist?” Schuster tweeted with the picture.

Mark Rerick, Grand Forks Public Schools athletic director, and Red River head coach Bill Chase declined to comment on the incident.

Um. Yeah, I guess so, Shane.

246 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:21:10am

Every which way but lose.

//

247 dragonath  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:22:01am

re: #245 erik_t

Those fracking fluids work fast, don’t they?

248 erik_t  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:23:10am

re: #247 dragonath

Those fracking fluids work fast, don’t they?

Wrong side of the state; Grand Forks is right on the Minnesota border.

I hope the infection does not spread. Minnesota seems like a decent enough place, aside from those infernal cold air masses they like to throw at us.

249 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:24:05am

re: #241 sattv4u2

LIES
He’s in witness protection, his identity has been changed and he’s living in a small ranch house in Arizona with Elvis and Henry Hill (Ray Liota) lamenting that they ordered spaghetti with marinara sauce and got egg noodles with ketchup

Double lies! OBL never existed! He was created by the military-industrial-PNAC-Haliburton-Xe-Bilderberg-CFR-Juice-complex! Can’t you sheeple see? Truth to power!

//

250 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:28:46am

re: 243 Wrenchwench

His name is Steve Higgins. He’s the announcer on the show, sort of like Ed McMahon was for Johnny Carson. Pretty funny guy.

251 makeitstop  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:30:33am

re: #243 wrenchwench

That got Paged here. Since I’m TV deprived, can you tell me 1.) who is that doing the introduction, and 2.) is he trying to look exactly like Steve Allen on purpose?

That’s Jimmy’s announcer, Steve Higgins.

I hadn’t thought of the Steve Allen resemblance, but you’re right on that. Although the moustache lends a hint of Ernie Kovacs.

252 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:30:42am

re: #249 Gus

Truth to power!

Not me. I prefer

253 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:31:23am

re: #252 sattv4u2

Truth to power!

Not me. I prefer

[Embedded content]

Can’t watch videos just yet.

254 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:31:52am

Wrench, if you get a chance, [Link: www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com…]

255 makeitstop  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:32:52am

re: #251 makeitstop

That’s Jimmy’s announcer, Steve Higgins.

I hadn’t thought of the Steve Allen resemblance, but you’re right on that. Although the moustache lends a hint of Ernie Kovacs.

On edit: Damn, I swore I saw a moustache the first time I watched it. Weird.

Need moar coffee, it was a long night last night…

256 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:33:31am

Toxic paratrooper mice iz coming for your cats!

//

257 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:33:40am

re: #254 SteveMcGazi

Can’t do the video here. I’ll save it for at home.

258 wrenchwench  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:34:22am

re: #255 makeitstop

it was a long night last night…

With music?

259 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:35:20am

re: #253 Gus

Can’t watch videos just yet.

(((Isley Brothers Fight the Power)))))

260 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:36:16am

re: #259 sattv4u2

(((isley brothers Fight the Power)))))

Wah wah.

261 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:36:57am

Backa chica, backa chica, wow, wow, bwow, chica, wah, wah… feedback.

262 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:37:13am

Bass slap.

263 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:39:08am
264 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:39:19am

Moron doesn’t understand that ThoughtCrime was a fascist government directive in a fiction.

265 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:39:52am

I almost have most of my outdoor motion sensors for my security system installed. No false alarms yet, even on windy days with lots of plants waving around. Infrared technology has come a long ways. I sleep much better at night with a secure perimeter.

266 erik_t  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:41:35am

re: #265 Killgore Trout

I almost have most of my outdoor motion sensors for my security system installed. No false alarms yet, even on windy days with lots of plants waving around. Infrared technology has come a long ways. I sleep much better at night with a secure perimeter.

Ah, but will the 27 bears set them off?

267 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:44:57am

Here’s the outrageous Egyptian version that got the guys arrested

Egypt’s ‘Haram Shake’ dance fails to impress the police
Is that a dude in an Obama mask on the lower right?

268 Kronocide  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:45:12am

re: #265 Killgore Trout

I almost have most of my outdoor motion sensors for my security system installed. No false alarms yet, even on windy days with lots of plants waving around. Infrared technology has come a long ways. I sleep much better at night with a secure perimeter.

Active or passive IR?

269 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:45:15am

RE: 265 Kilgore Trout

Almost most, does that mean more than some? Which side of your house haven’t you gotten to yet? (heh) Any booby traps?

270 Bulworth  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:45:59am

Bernard Bailyn, still cranking out the material at the ripe old age of 90. Good on him.

271 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:47:01am

re: #266 erik_t

Ah, but will the 27 bears set them off?

They are pretty reliable. anything over 3-4 ft tall will set them off. I did buy some Bear Spray for home defense. It says it’s not safe to use on humans but nothing’s perfect I suppose.

272 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:47:22am

re: #265 Killgore Trout

I almost have most of my outdoor motion sensors for my security system installed. No false alarms yet, even on windy days with lots of plants waving around. Infrared technology has come a long ways. I sleep much better at night with a secure perimeter.

Helps keep out the Kos Kidz vagrants that have a human right to your property! Clearly you’re not just growing kale in that greenhouse.

//

273 allegro  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:49:09am

re: #265 Killgore Trout

Interesting that you should mention this…

There’s a car dealership across the street with infrared sensor security and that damned alarm goes off at all hours and stays on for 15-20 minutes. 2 to 3 times a week at least and often several times a night. Last night it went off at 10:45 and again at 12:15am and AGAIN at 7:15 this morning. There is no on-site security and cops never show up so these are obviously false alarms.

274 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:49:39am

re: #269 SteveMcGazi

RE: 265 Kilgore Trout

Almost most, does that mean more than some? Which side of your house haven’t you gotten to yet? (heh) Any booby traps?

I have about half of the backyard covered. I was going to just cover the back but I like these sensors so much I think I’m going to cover the whole house. I checked into the “booby trap” thing. Even just a board with a nail or two carelessly left under a window is very illegal.

275 erik_t  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:50:15am

re: #273 allegro

Interesting that you should mention this…

There’s a car dealership across the street with infrared sensor security and that damned alarm goes off at all hours …

No jury would convict you.

Just sayin’.

276 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:52:11am

re: #272 Gus

Helps keep out the Kos Kidz vagrants that have a human right to your property! Clearly you’re not just growing kale in that greenhouse.

//

OCCUPY KILGORE!!!

277 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:54:26am

re: #273 allegro

Interesting that you should mention this…

There’s a car dealership across the street with infrared sensor security and that damned alarm goes off at all hours and stays on for 15-20 minutes. 2 to 3 times a week at least and often several times a night. Last night it went off at 10:45 and again at 12:15am and AGAIN at 7:15 this morning. There is no on-site security and cops never show up so these are obviously false alarms.

They just recently figured out how to make motion sensors that don’t go off everytime there’s a breeze. I don’t know what took them so long, it’s not expensive but it is new. I don’t have mine programed to trigger an alarm, just a chime inside the house to alert me that someone might be snooping around. So far they’re really reliable but I don’t think I’d trust them enough to trigger the alarm when I’m not home. I’m sure they’re capable of false alarms, just not very often.

278 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 9:57:35am

re: #272 Gus

Helps keep out the Kos Kidz vagrants that have a human right to your property! Clearly you’re not just growing kale in that greenhouse.

//

I’ve been working overtime on my security system. The guy across the street fought off a home invasion in the middle of the afternoon last week with a kitchen knife. I thought my burglars a few months ago were looking for pot in my greenhouse but now I think the methadone clinic a few blocks away just bring in criminals. All my hippie moonbat neighbors are talking about buying guns.

279 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:00:14am

re: #272 Gus

Helps keep out the Kos Kidz vagrants that have a human right to your property! Clearly you’re not just growing kale in that greenhouse.

//

BTW, have you checked out the legal pot scene there? I hear they’re going to use it to boost tourism. I checked out the “legal” scene here in Portland a few years ago and found it to be creepy, not the kind of thing like coffee shops in Amsterdam.

280 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:05:17am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

I’ve been working overtime on my security system. The guy across the street fought off a home invasion in the middle of the afternoon last week with a kitchen knife. I thought my burglars a few months ago were looking for pot in my greenhouse but now I think the methadone clinic a few blocks away just bring in criminals. All my hippie moonbat neighbors are talking about buying guns.

Can’t blame them. A clinic like that will attract a lot miscreants. A certain, and rather liberal neighborhood over here voted down some type of homeless housing shelter. I laughed to myself when they voted it down. I knew why but laughed because it really is a very liberal neighborhood. Had another crunchy friend that got a CCW after the serial rapist she testified against was released. Another big Obama fan neighbor who was also a former Marine and admitted to me that he had an arsenal. My dad who voted for Nader once and continues to vote Democrat still has his 12 gauge and 30-30 Marlin. There’s the internet, and then there’s the rest of the world.

281 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:06:22am

Re: 274 Kilgore Trout

I remember a boss of mine wanted to put in some when our factory got broken into. I think he did it anyway.

282 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:08:50am

re: #279 Killgore Trout

BTW, have you checked out the legal pot scene there? I hear they’re going to use it to boost tourism. I checked out the “legal” scene here in Portland a few years ago and found it to be creepy, not the kind of thing like coffee shops in Amsterdam.

Nah. Not yet. There was talk about that. Colorado legalized pot but there’s just one thing and it’s called the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. There is no effort underway in congress or the White House to change things. Only in a few spots like Diana DeGette who wrote some letter to the DOJ calling for changes. She’s still opposed to marijuana legalization which is weird. On a side note. Our mayor and Gov. Hickenlooper were also opposed to requiring sick days for Coloradans.

283 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:11:11am

re: #280 Gus

Can’t blame them. A clinic like that will attract a lot miscreants. A certain, and rather liberal neighborhood over here voted down some type of homeless housing shelter. I laughed to myself when they voted it down. I knew why but laughed because it really is a very liberal neighborhood. Had another crunchy friend that got a CCW after the serial rapist she testified against was released. Another big Obama fan neighbor who was also a former Marine and admitted to me that he had an arsenal. My dad who voted for Nader once and continues to vote Democrat still has his 12 gauge and 30-30 Marlin. There’s the internet, and then there’s the rest of the world.

I’m happy enough with my pepper spray. I always have it in my pocket while in the garden, doing laundry or taking out the trash. I figure my chances of success in a conflict are probably just about as having a gun.

284 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:11:50am

“In enacting the Controlled Substances Act, Congress determined that marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance. The Department of Justice is reviewing the ballot initiatives and we have no additional comment at this time.”

Whatever.

285 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:12:48am

Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper (D), an opponent of Amendment 64.

286 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:14:13am

re: #282 Gus

Nah. Not yet. There was talk about that. Colorado legalized pot but there’s just one thing and it’s called the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. There is no effort underway in congress or the White House to change things. Only in a few spots like Diana DeGette who wrote some letter to the DOJ calling for changes. She’s still opposed to marijuana legalization which is weird. On a side note. Our mayor and Gov. Hickenlooper were also opposed to requiring sick days for Coloradans.

A federal fix is required but most people in “legal” states that get busted by the feds get pinched because of tax evasion. I’m pretty sure the feds are willing to look the other way on small and medium sized businesses in legal states as long as people are somehow paying taxes on the earned income.

287 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:17:48am

re: #286 Killgore Trout

A federal fix is required but most people in “legal” states that get busted by the feds get pinched because of tax evasion. I’m pretty sure the feds are willing to look the other way on small and medium sized businesses in legal states as long as people are somehow paying taxes on the earned income.

Oh yeah. It’s much better than in other states. The medical marijuana biz is thriving. I have an old client who now leases space to a medical marijuana grower. I can get a card pretty easily if I so desired. Then you can just walk right in and get some nice bud for cheap. I’m a proponent of recreational marijuana since medical marijuana will imply FDA meddling which will probably set serious limits on it because it remains a smoking activity. It will probably be another 100 years before we see the true liberalization of marijuana.

288 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:19:13am

re: #282 Gus

Damn, and I was going to ask you if I could crash at your place next time I’m in Denver getting a Rocky Mountain High!!

289 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:23:17am

re: #282 Gus

re: #288 sattv4u2

Damn, and I was going to ask you if I could crash at your place next time I’m in Denver getting a Rocky Mountain High!!

((btw,, I do go to Denver for business often, well, Englewood actually ,,, just off of Rte 25 just south of 470)))

290 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:25:05am

re: #269 SteveMcGazi

RE: 265 Kilgore Trout

Almost most, does that mean more than some? Which side of your house haven’t you gotten to yet? (heh) Any booby traps?

His next step is hanging cans on the wire in case the VC try to infiltrate.
/

291 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:25:25am

re: #288 sattv4u2

Damn, and I was going to ask you if I could crash at your place next time I’m in Denver getting a Rocky Mountain High!!

Colorado was always pot country. As was New Jersey and California. I have to admit that Colorado seems to be a biggest fan of the three. Jerry Brown actually won the Colorado Dem prez primaries which was a surprise to me. I remember using a public restroom in Fort Dix, NJ and seeing some still useful bud remnants on a window sill which I scooped up. This was back around 1978. At a US Army fort. The Feds continue to be idiots about this whole issue. Here we are in 2013 and we have a brainless DEA administrator that thinks marijuana use leads to Heroin.

292 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:26:57am

Polis Questions DEA on Marijuana Policy

Congressman Jared Polis questions DEA Administrator Michele Leonhart during a hearing on the agency’s priorities. He repeatedly pressed the administrator on the relative health impacts of marijuana versus other drugs.

Jared Polis is from Colorado. :D

293 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:28:10am

re: #287 Gus

I’m a proponent of recreational marijuana

Same here. Always have been even though I never really liked it nor have I even had a puff in some 35+ years

That stated, when fully legalized, I would like to see it legislated similar to alcohol. No sale to minors, no smoking while driving (similar to open container laws), and if caught while impaired similar to DUI/DWI laws

294 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:29:50am

re: #293 sattv4u2


I’m a proponent of recreational marijuana

Same here. Always have been even though I never really liked it nor have I even had a puff in some 35+ years

That stated, when fully legalized, I would like to see it legislated similar to alcohol. No sale to minors, no smoking while driving (similar to open container laws), and if caught while impaired similar to DUI/DWI laws

I agree. Smoke pot, don’t drive. Teens who are still in their developmental stages should not smoke pot. 18+ or 21+.

295 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:31:40am

re: #294 Gus
Are you anywhere in the vacinity of Englewood? I’ll probably be there end of April/ start of May

296 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:33:45am

re: #295 sattv4u2

Are you anywhere in the vacinity of Englewood? I’ll probably be there end of April/ start of May

Yeah. Basically 15 minutes away.

297 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:33:58am

re: #291 Gus

we have a brainless DEA administrator that thinks marijuana use leads to Heroin.

(Reefer Madness movie ,, circa 1938)

298 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:35:17am

re: #296 Gus

re: #295 sattv4u2
Field trip to the dispensary!

299 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:35:36am

re: #296 Gus

Yeah. Basically 15 minutes away.

:)

IF you want, I’ll spring for drinks/ dinner (I can expense “x” amount per day, which I never max myself)

300 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:36:00am

re: #297 sattv4u2

we have a brainless DEA administrator that thinks marijuana use leads to Heroin.

[Embedded content]

(Reefer Madness movie ,, circa 1938)

Truly a face palm moment.

There was an amendment to some education act that added limits to student aid based on drug convictions. There are three levels. Three conviction and you do not qualify for student aid, period. I think you can get around it but have to go through some rehab program. This was enacted in 1998. Cough.

301 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:36:29am

re: #299 sattv4u2

:)

IF you want, I’ll spring for drinks/ dinner (I can expense “x” amount per day, which I never max myself)

OK, we’ll see. I’m quite the lazy bones.

302 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:36:30am

re: #298 Killgore Trout

re: #295 sattv4u2
Field trip to the dispensary!

I was thinking more on the lines that Gus knowing the area could “hook me up” with the good shit!!

303 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:37:46am

Here in Portland they just give pot away. It’s hard to imagine anyone actually pays for it. Most of the pot that people give me just ends up in the compost bin. It’s ok every once in a while but I just don’t have the passion for the stuff that I had in my teens and 20’s.

304 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:39:20am

This GEICO commercial with Mutombo running around “blocking” things is actually a little bit creepy.

305 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:39:37am

re: #303 Killgore Trout

I just don’t have the passion for the stuff that I had in my teens and 20’s.

See!! “They” were right. I burned you out, made you lazy and dispassionate!!

306 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:39:51am

re: #303 Killgore Trout

Here in Portland they just give pot away. It’s hard to imagine anyone actually pays for it. Most of the pot that people give me just ends up in the compost bin. It’s ok every once in a while but I just don’t have the passion for the stuff that I had in my teens and 20’s.

Give it away? What?

307 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:40:52am

re: #305 sattv4u2

I just don’t have the passion for the stuff that I had in my teens and 20’s.

See!! “They” were right. I burned you out, made you lazy and dispassionate!!

Hey man.

308 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:44:22am

Finally got around to paging this. Ironically enough, I didn’t get it up yesterday because I’ve been sick.

Why medical bills are killing us

309 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:44:47am

re: #306 Gus

Give it away? What?

Seriously. I once found a sizable bag in my mailbox which I assume was left there by one of the local foragers that I allow to raid my fig tree and blueberry bushes. The local backyard growers come to me for plant advice, growing tips, diagnosing problems and always offer some pot in exchange. Last fall I got invited to a local trimming party where they served snacks and drinks while the guests helped trim harvested plants. Everybody got a goodie bag to take home. They just give it away up here.

310 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:47:56am

Off to do ,, stuff!!

311 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:48:35am

re: #309 Killgore Trout

Seriously. I once found a sizable bag in my mailbox which I assume was left there by one of the local foragers that I allow to raid my fig tree and blueberry bushes. The local backyard growers come to me for plant advice, growing tips, diagnosing problems and always offer some pot in exchange. Last fall I got invited to a local trimming party where they served snacks and drinks while the guests helped trim harvested plants. Everybody got a goodie bag to take home. They just give it away up here.

Now you’re on heroin!

//

312 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:50:48am

…also when I was a kid hash was a rare, exotic and expensive big deal if you could even find it at all. Up here it’s almost considered a waste byproduct. They give it away too.

313 sattv4u2  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:51:18am

re: #312 Killgore Trout

…also when I was a kid hash was a rare, exotic and expensive big deal if you could even find it at all. Up here it’s almost considered a waste byproduct. They give it away too.

I like mine with eggs on the side, over easy!

314 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:54:20am

re: #313 sattv4u2

I like mine with eggs on the side, over easy!

Baked man.

//

315 Gus  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:56:53am

Uh oh. Bob Woodward is in trouble! He’s a bad man.

//

316 Ming  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 11:07:15am

That article in the Smithsonian Magazine about America’s early history is absolutely fascinating. It was the first time in many years that I actually got interested in the subject of history.

It’s a depressing thought, but it seems that it’s very, very rare, historically, to have multiple races and cultures that live together in harmony. From that point of view, the 21st century global economy, and our interconnected global society, is an incredible achievement, but unfortunately a fragile one.

317 Killgore Trout  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 11:11:04am

re: #315 Gus

Uh oh. Bob Woodward is in trouble! He’s a bad man.

//

I think he’s been brainwashed by Fox News and Ted Nugent.

318 makeitstop  Sat, Feb 23, 2013 2:01:42pm

re: #306 Gus

Give it away? What?

I have friends offering to give me bags of home-grown weed all the time at some shows I play. Where were all these hemp farmers back when I puffed on the daily?


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iossarian
Drug Companies Want Your Money
Two thematically-related stories on the BBC at the moment: UK drug company Glaxo 'paid bribes to Polish doctors' UK drug company GlaxoSmithKline is facing a criminal investigation in Poland for allegedly bribing doctors, BBC Panorama has discovered. Tamiflu: Millions wasted on flu drug, claims major report Hundreds of millions of pounds may have been wasted on a drug for flu that works no better ...

4 days, 20 hours ago
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 Frank says:

The last election just laid the foundation for the next 500 years of Dark Ages. -- From 1981