Obama’s Picks for EPA and DOE Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

Like everything else Obama does

President Obama’s picks to head the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Energy are already provoking howls of outrage from the right wing and the energy industry shills who feed them talking points; they’re especially worked up about Gina McCarthy.

Gina McCarthy

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday named two people to his cabinet who will be charged with making good on his threat to use the powers of the executive branch to tackle climate change and energy policy if Congress does not act quickly.

Mr. Obama nominated Gina McCarthy, a tough-talking native of Boston and an experienced clean air regulator, to take charge at the Environmental Protection Agency, and Ernest J. Moniz, a physicist and strong advocate of natural gas and nuclear power as cleaner alternatives to coal, to run the Department of Energy.

The appointments, which require Senate confirmation, send an unmistakable signal that the president intends to mount a multifaceted campaign in his second term to tackle climate change by using all the executive branch tools at his disposal.

The energy industry mouthpieces at the Heartland Institute immediately pushed this paid announcement out on PR Newswire:

“Gina McCarthy has a long history of demonizing affordable energy and doing everything possible to shut it down. She also has a long history of making up fictitious facts to support her anti-energy ideology. McCarthy’s number-one priority at EPA will be enacting unprecedented restrictions on energy production and use that will further drive up energy prices. If Americans like dramatically rising gasoline prices and rapidly rising electricity prices, they are going to love Gina McCarthy.”

James M. Taylor
Senior Fellow for Environmental Policy
The Heartland Institute

[…]

“During litigation on the EPA’s claim that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases endanger public health, the attorney for the EPA, introduced as the technical expert, falsely asserted to the Court that the climate models used are valid. The models have never been validated and are failing miserably. The Earth stopped warming over a decade ago, contradicting the models. The models are also contradicted by the characteristics of late twentieth-century warming.

“Under Ms. McCarthy we can expect further deterioration of American science as the EPA ignores scientific facts that do not support its political agenda.”

Kenneth Haapala
Executive Vice President
Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP)

That’s what the pseudo-science wing says; now let’s go to Pat Robertson for the religious right view. Proving himself a master of the art of wingnut projectionism, old Pat went on a rant about Gina McCarthy today, denouncing environmentalists as “crazies” and “religious fanatics,” who are “unreasonable” and “doctrinaire.”

Sounds to me like Ms. McCarthy is a perfect choice for the position.

Jump to bottom

312 comments

1 Ghost of Tom Joad  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 12:57:22pm
Mr. Obama nominated Gina McCarthy, a tough-talking native of Boston and an experienced clean air regulator, to take charge at the Environmental Protection Agency, and Ernest J. Moniz, a physicist and strong advocate of natural gas and nuclear power as cleaner alternatives to coal, to run the Department of Energy.

So, administration appoints people who will try to avoid us having air like China, right wing freaks out. Awesome. If they love coal so much, they should just suck on their pick-up truck’s tailpipe for an hour every day.

2 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 12:58:30pm

Pea-soupers build character. Look at Victorian England.

3 dragonath  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:00:34pm

Hoh. Right. Pat Robertson.

People’s clothes wrinkle when they see him on teevee.

4 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:00:52pm
5 geoffm33  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:06:07pm
making up fictitious facts

As opposed to making up non-fictitious facts?

6 Big Steve  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:08:36pm

I sure she will be fine in the EPA……but dang…..that picture…..she is a doppelganger for Bill Clinton!

7 Big Steve  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:09:24pm

re: #3 dragonath

Hoh. Right. Pat Robertson.

People’s clothes wrinkle when they see him on teevee.

LOL….wish I could double upding ya!

8 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:15:01pm

Pat Robertson needs a Bad Lipreading treatment.

9 sagehen  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:15:34pm

For my monthly iteration on smog…

I grew up in the inland suburbs of Los Angeles in the 60’s & 70’s. I LOVE THE EPA!! And with all due respect to their work on water and soil pollution, their air quality work is the reason I’d sacrifice 5 of the first 10 Amendments before I’d give up the EPA. They’re the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I remember smog alerts. I remember when we couldn’t see the mountains 5 miles away, when I couldn’t ride my bike to school (3 miles) because the air was so crappy, the high school cancelled football practice, the elementary schools didn’t have recess, and the country club cancelled all tennis-court reservations because it was dangerous to do anything that might make people breathe hard. Factories shut down until it passed. Sometimes these alerts went for a week at a time. The dogs couldn’t even run around the yard.

Mom paid a small fortune for a special state-of-the-art air processor for the house, we had to change the filters every few weeks during ordinary times, but several times a day during smog alerts. There’d be black gunk coating the sheets, of stuff that everybody outside the house was just breathing. It stuck to the cars. Dad’s hospital, on smog days, had a special oxygen hangout room for asthmatics, babies and the elderly to come watch TV and read and breathe comfortably until it was safe for them to be out in the world.

I can almost forgive Watergate, because Nixon went along with putting special provision in the EPA that California is entitled to a waiver whenever they want to enact stricter emissions limits than the federal standard.

The EPA is my favorite federal agency of all.

10 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:16:05pm

‘The Heartland Institute & Science and Environmental Policy Project.’
Yah, right.

These lying shit bag organizations need to shut the fuck up before their BS forces my grandkids to barely exist in unlivable conditions.

11 geoffm33  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:17:47pm

So I’ve been researching George Wallace a bit after this tweet-convo:

From Wikipedia:

In Wallace’s 1998 obituary, The Huntsville Times political editor John Anderson summarized the impact from the 1968 campaign: “His startling appeal to millions of alienated white voters was not lost on Richard Nixon and other GOP strategists. First Nixon, then Ronald Reagan, and finally George Herbert Walker Bush successfully adopted toned-down versions of Wallace’s anti-busing, anti-federal government platform to pry low- and middle-income whites from the Democratic New Deal coalition.”[14] Dan Carter, a professor of history at Emory University in Atlanta added: “George Wallace laid the foundation for the dominance of the Republican Party in American society through the manipulation of racial and social issues in the 1960s and 1970s. He was the master teacher, and Richard Nixon and the Republican leadership that followed were his students.”[15]

Wallace considered Happy Chandler, the former baseball commissioner and two-term former governor of Kentucky, as his running mate in his 1968 campaign as a third party candidate; as one of Wallace’s aides put it, “We have all the nuts in the country; we could get some decent people–-you working one side of the street and he working the other side.” Wallace invited Chandler, but when the press published the prospect, Wallace’s supporters objected: Chandler had supported the hiring of Jackie Robinson by the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Yeah, model Democrat by todays standards.

Link

12 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:20:18pm

re: #9 sagehen

I remember those 3rd Stage smog alerts growing up in Los Angeles as well. A couple of times as I recall, they sent us home early from school as a result. This would’ve been in the mid to late 1970s.

13 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:20:19pm

Any bets as to how soon till the rightwing start calling Gina McCarthy some sort of commie lesbian or some such?

14 Professor Chaos  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:20:44pm

re: #10 b_sharp

‘The Heartland Institute & Science and Environmental Policy Project.’
Yah, right.

These lying shit bag organizations need to shut the fuck up before their BS forces my grandkids to barely exist in unlivable conditions.

The sad part is that people like my father are genuinely concerned about their grandchildren inheriting a crushing debt load from the federal government, but at the same time don’t bat an eye about climate change because Al Gore something something.

15 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:23:05pm

re: #13 Destro

Any bets as to how soon till the rightwing start calling Gina McCarthy some sort of commie lesbian or some such?

Comments:

And where does Obama get all the lesbians to take these offices??? They have political agenda for doing something that needs a science base. Why not get a real scienctist to take the position?? Oh, most of them have said just he opposite of what Obama wants to hear.

and

Oh great, Gina McCarthy…a closet lesbian looking for a way to express itself…what could possibly go wrong? This incompetent, inept admin is killing this Republic.

16 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:24:08pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

Pat Robertson needs a Bad Lipreading treatment.

How would you tell the difference?

17 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:24:16pm

re: #14 Professor Chaos

The sad part is that people like my father are genuinely concerned about their grandchildren inheriting a crushing debt load from the federal government, but at the same time don’t bat an eye about climate change because Al Gore something something.

Guy in the game store I play cribbage at was wearing a T-shirt last night that said, “Al Gore did not create the Internet. But he did make up global warming.”

From previous conversations I know that the guy falls into the libertarian Ron Paul-ish crowd with a thick dollop of well hidden racism stirred in.

18 dragonath  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:24:30pm

The Obama White House. Where every woman is a lesbian, every appointee a Communist Czar, and everybody else is actually Al Gore.

19 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:26:41pm

re: #18 dragonath

The Obama White House. Where every woman is a lesbian, every appointee a Communist Czar, and everybody else is actually Al Gore.

And they’re all Friends of Hamas.

20 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:27:29pm

Obama’s Picks for Barber and Dogwalker Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

21 Professor Chaos  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:27:41pm

re: #18 dragonath

The Obama White House. Where every woman is a lesbian, every appointee a Communist Czar, and everybody else is actually Al Gore.

I still get a kick out of the Communist Czar thing. Czars must be communists because Russia, right?

22 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:28:36pm

re: #20 Decatur Deb

Obama’s Picks for Barber and Dogwalker Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

Obama’s Choice for Lunch Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

23 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:29:34pm

re: #14 Professor Chaos

The sad part is that people like my father are genuinely concerned about their grandchildren inheriting a crushing debt load from the federal government, but at the same time don’t bat an eye about climate change because Al Gore something something.

Debt is bad enough but if the climate changes as much as feared there will be little opportunity to deal with debt for possibly centuries. Assuming the debt can’t be dealt with while also changing our source of energy in an intelligent way is a false dichotomy.

24 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:33:04pm

This incompetent, inept admin is killing this Republic.

OK, but enough about the last Bush administration….

25 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:33:45pm

re: #23 b_sharp

in an intelligent way

we’re talking about humans here, so,,, no!!

/(kinda)

26 Professor Chaos  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:34:26pm

re: #22 Gus

Obama’s Choice for Lunch Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

So 2009.

27 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:34:49pm

re: #22 Gus

Obama’s Choice for Lunch Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

hmmm,,, thanks for the idea
On the way to work tonight, I think i’ll drive right thru a Sonic!!

28 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:36:06pm

re: #9 sagehen

For my monthly iteration on smog…

I grew up in the inland suburbs of Los Angeles in the 60’s & 70’s. I LOVE THE EPA!! And with all due respect to their work on water and soil pollution, their air quality work is the reason I’d sacrifice 5 of the first 10 Amendments before I’d give up the EPA. They’re the greatest thing since sliced bread.
…snip.

Pittsburgh, 1940s.

Image: tumblr_m5bmtss95t1qazntyo1_500.jpg

29 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:36:15pm

re: #27 sattv4u2

hmmm,,, thanks for the idea
On the way to work tonight, I think i’ll drive right thru a Sonic!!

The hedgehog?

30 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:37:07pm

ruh roh

Batten down the hatches. it is POURING out here. looking out my back window I can barely see the swing set in the yard, about 60 yards away from the back of the house

31 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:38:27pm

re: #29 b_sharp

The hedgehog?

I’m not sure what their burgers are made of!!
[Link: www.google.com…]
/

32 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:40:28pm

re: #16 b_sharp

How would you tell the difference?

With the lip reading treatment, he almost starts to make sense!

33 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:40:39pm

Woomp. There it is.

34 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:41:19pm

re: #33 Gus

Woomp. There it is.

drats ,,,, they’re on to us!!

35 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:41:24pm

re: #22 Gus

Obama’s Choice for Lunch Drive the Right Into a Frenzy

Obummer’s ham sandwich is clearly a closeted lesbian.

36 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:41:25pm

re: #28 Decatur Deb

Pittsburgh, 1940s.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

37 dragonath  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:43:02pm

re: #36 Feline Fearless Leader

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Everybody suffers when you light up a Pall Mall.

38 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:44:28pm

re: #36 Feline Fearless Leader

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Donora, PA Hydrogen Flouride Smog:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

39 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:44:37pm

re: #37 dragonath

Everybody suffers when you light up a Pall Mall.

Coal isn’t the problem! It’s these liberal efforts to destroy our profitability!
///

40 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:46:35pm

re: #37 dragonath

Everybody suffers when you light up a Pall Mall.

I once had a Pall Mall at Pauls Mall !!

[Link: www.facebook.com…]

41 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:47:02pm

re: #16 b_sharp

How would you tell the difference?

I’m hoping the Bad Lipreading would be humorous, as opposed to the real thing being just creepy.

42 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:47:55pm

Geller Out, But Anti-Muslim Voices Remain at CPAC

Pamela Geller will not be welcomed back to CPAC this year, representing yet another development in annual conservative gathering’s frequent clashes over Islamophobia. Anti-Muslim activists like Geller, David Horowitz, Frank Gaffney and Robert Spencer claim that the Muslim Brotherhood and its cohorts, namely Grover Norquist and Suhail Khan, are trying to infiltrate the conservative movement.

43 dragonath  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:48:31pm

Zinc Smelters are about the crappiest things on Earth. Take a look at this satellite picture of Palmerton, PA, which is a stop off the Appalachian Trail.

[Link: maps.google.com…]

44 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:50:15pm

re: #43 dragonath

Zinc Smelters

Yummm,,, I haven’t had smelts in years
I pray there wasn’t zinc in them!!
[Link: www.google.com…]

45 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:50:48pm

re: #43 dragonath

Zinc Smelters are about the crappiest things on Earth. Take a look at this satellite picture of Palmerton, PA, which is a stop off the Appalachian Trail.

[Link: maps.google.com…]

Even with today’s controls, a trip through Nitro, WV will clear your sinuses. It has the last MIC plant in the US. MIC=Bhopal.

46 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:50:55pm

re: #38 Decatur Deb

Donora, PA Hydrogen Flouride Smog:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
;)

47 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:51:50pm

Utah Republican: Can’t punish cockfighting because abortion is legal

“In a state where we can still allow people to kill their babies, we want to make it a felony to let chickens fight — the purpose for which they were raised,” Sen. Allen Christensen said. “It’s not beautiful, it’s not wonderful or any such thing.”

Organizing a cockfight in Utah is currently a class A misdemeanor. Proponents of the bill noted that cockfighting is a felony in Utah’s neighboring states and the lesser penalties could make Utah attractive to fans of the fights.

“Do we really want to make it a felony and go to prison [because] two chickens were bred — which naturally want to do this thing in their lives — and we’re going to send their owners to prison for this?” Christensen added. “Yet we allow people to go ahead and murder their unborn babies? I vote no.”

Go eat a bag of dicks, you malignant turd.

48 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:53:37pm

re: #47 Kragar (Antichrist )

hmm,
Tow potentially great grunge or heavy metal band names

Bag Of Dicks
The Malignant Turds

49 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:56:43pm

Rick Wiles: Fly Landing on Obama May Be Sign He Is Demonic

After warning that President Obama may “declare himself as God” during his trip to Israel, TruNews host Rick Wiles yesterday said that God is sending a plague of locusts to Israel as a “biblical sign” ahead of Obama’s visit.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel is covered with locusts when he arrives in Jerusalem in three weeks,” Wiles said. “How many biblical signs do we need to see to know that this man is evil?”

Wiles also agreed with the claim made by WorldNetDaily that a fly which landed on Obama may be proof that the President is “possessed by a demonic entity” and the return of the “biblical ‘Lord of the Flies,’ or Beelzebub, which is another name for Satan. “Each time I see the flies buzzing around him I think of Beelzebub, Lord of the Flies,” Wiles recounted.

50 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:57:23pm

re: #43 dragonath

Zinc Smelters are about the crappiest things on Earth. Take a look at this satellite picture of Palmerton, PA, which is a stop off the Appalachian Trail.

[Link: maps.google.com…]

Coal mines still doing their share as well.

[Link: maps.google.com…]

Spill piles here at Vintonville, PA from long closed mines are still leaching out sulfur compounds and require settling ponds in order to keep the creek somewhat clean. (I know of this location due to bicycling the Ghost Town Trail a few times.)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

51 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:57:34pm

AP breaking news: Venezuela’s vice president says Hugo Chavez has died.

52 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:58:03pm
53 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:59:02pm
54 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:59:51pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

I hope the country gets a much better leader after him, and that the transition of power is orderly. Sadly, these two things are probably mutually exclusive.

55 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 1:59:59pm

And from a purely theological point of view, Rick Wiles is still full of shit, as Beelzebub was an early Semitic deity and a Prince of Hell in early Christian beliefs, but it has never been considered another name for Satan, except by uneducated illiterate fucktards.

56 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:00:25pm

2nd diplomat ejected from Venezuela
Venezuela boots U.S. embassy officials, accuses enemies of Chavez plot

Venezuela expelled two U.S. officials on Tuesday as it accused enemies of “attacking” President Hugo Chavez and suggested someone may have deliberately infected the ailing leader with cancer.

Both U.S. officials, air attaches at the U.S. Embassy in Caracas, are accused of having meetings with members of the Venezuelan military and encouraging them to pursue “destabilizing projects,” Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua said.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next week or so.

57 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:00:39pm

re: #49 Kragar (Antichrist )

Rick Wiles: Fly Landing on Obama May Be Sign He Is Demonic

Spoken by a man who is such a shithead that he must draw in flies from three states away.

58 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:01:28pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

He’s an ex-dictator.

59 dragonath  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:01:41pm

re: #45 Decatur Deb

Even with today’s controls, a trip through Nitro, WV will clear your sinuses. It has the last MIC plant in the US. MIC=Bhopal.

I always wondered if all the vegetation dying around them would cue people in to the fact that, you know, industrial waste isn’t good for you.

Maybe people in the old days just wanted to live in Mordor.

60 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:02:01pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

AP breaking news: Venezuela’s vice president says Hugo Chavez has died.

He’s not dead, he’s with Elvis.

61 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:02:13pm

re: #58 Targetpractice

He’s an ex-dictator.

Hugo Chavez will now join the ranks of General Francisco Franco.

62 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:02:45pm
63 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:02:47pm

re: #58 Targetpractice

He’s an ex-dictator.

Has he been glued to the perch?

64 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:02:50pm

re: #59 dragonath

I always wondered if all the vegetation dying around them would cue people in to the fact that, you know, industrial waste isn’t good for you.

Maybe people in the old days just wanted to live in Mordor.

A bunch of people today don’t mind if you live in Mordor.

65 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:02:56pm

re: #60 b_sharp

He’s not dead, he’s with Elvis.

Sasquatch could not be reached for comment

66 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:03:29pm

re: #59 dragonath

I always wondered if all the vegetation dying around them would cue people in to the fact that, you know, industrial waste isn’t good for you.

Maybe people in the old days just wanted to live in Mordor.

The Carnegies and Rockefellers of the world never had to live in the ash heaps from their factories.

67 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:03:36pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

And Nessie is out of contact too.

68 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:03:54pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

Sasquatch could not be reached for comment

He was in Missouri at a show shilling for Jack Links. Times are hard for even the cryptocreatures.

69 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:05:41pm

re: #68 Feline Fearless Leader

Jack Links

I knew his brother, Sausage!

70 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:06:36pm

re: #68 Feline Fearless Leader

re: #69 sattv4u2


Jack Links

I knew his brother, Sausage!

And their Irish cousin, Golf

71 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:07:01pm

re: #68 Feline Fearless Leader

re: #70 sattv4u2

re: #69 sattv4u2

And their Irish cousin, Golf

Not to mention their uncle Cuff

72 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:08:09pm

House Republicans Propose Rolling Back Access To Birth Control To Avert Government Shutdown

In order to avert a government shutdown later this month, Congress and the Obama administration must negotiate a continuing resolution to maintain federal funding — and a group of House Republicans is suggesting that deal should also roll back Obamacare’s effort to expand women’s access to affordable contraception.

The automatic spending cuts that will take effect under sequestration will already compromise programs that disproportionately impact women, including slashing $86 million from critical family planning and reproductive health services. But that’s not enough for Republican lawmakers, who want to use the upcoming budget negotiations as yet another opportunity to keep attacking women’s health:

They never fucking let up.

My life’s work is now to get every single Republican tossed out of office.

73 dragonath  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:09:34pm

re: #66 EPR-radar

Yeah… well, at that New jersey Zinc site, the vegetation was dying on the slopes all the way into the 70s.

There’s a lot more local indifference than you would think. Even back then, enough propagandists had convinced people that pollution = progress.

74 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:10:09pm

re: #72 Kragar (Antichrist )

House Republicans Propose Rolling Back Access To Birth Control To Avert Government Shutdown

They never fucking let up.

My life’s work is now to get every single Republican tossed out of office.

I guess one could consider that “progress,” considering their push last year to replace the sequester was to pay for all of it by killing Obamacare in its entirety.

75 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:10:16pm

re: #72 Kragar (Antichrist )

House Republicans Propose Rolling Back Access To Birth Control To Avert Government Shutdown

They never fucking let up.

My life’s work is now to get every single Republican tossed out of office.

If you’re anywhere near Texas, that’s a good place to start.

76 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:10:47pm

re: #15 Gus

Comments:

and

Holy Shit! Even when I am Onioning the Republicans they live up to it. I think my time as a GOP party member has damaged me in some way that I can predict this behavior.

77 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:11:02pm

GOP Congressman: We’ll Use Comprehensive Tax Reform To Help Defund Obamacare

Continuing the Republican propensity to use every single policy and political issue imaginable as an excuse to launch attacks against Obamacare, Rep. Charles Boustany (R-LA) — a member of the powerful House Ways and Means Committee — asserted on Tuesday that Congressional efforts to comprehensively overhaul America’s tax code would include measures to repeal several important Obamacare funding provisions.

Boustany explained that the Obamacare tax measures “will be considered, most likely, in the context of fundamental tax reform,” since wrapping them into a bipartisan tax reform bill makes them more difficult to vote against. Among the provisions on the chopping block would be Obamacare’s 2.3 percent tax on medical devices, as well as a tax on so-called “Cadillac” health plans that wealthier Americans may choose to purchase.

78 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:11:47pm

Hugo Chavez. Terrorist sympathizer. Friend to Ahmadinejad. Purveyor of conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism. Destroyer of press freedoms.

79 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:13:30pm

re: #78 Gus

Hugo Chavez. Terrorist sympathizer. Friend to Ahmadinejad. Purveyor of conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism. Destroyer of press freedoms.

We’re gonna need a bigger gravestone!

80 Lidane  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:13:57pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

Venezuela’s ‘Comandante’ Hugo Chavez dies

I can honestly say I won’t shed a tear. He won’t be missed.

81 DREd  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:13:57pm

So Obama nominated a man and woman to his cabinet and the right wing is most upset about the woman? Thank god I keep my fainting couch so close to hand.

82 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:14:17pm

re: #78 Gus

Hugo Chavez. Terrorist sympathizer. Friend to Ahmadinejad. Purveyor of conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism. Destroyer of press freedoms.

He was a pretty big douchebag but not bad enough for me to dance on his grave. I do hope it’s the best thing for Venezuela.

83 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:14:27pm

re: #78 Gus

Hugo Chavez. Terrorist sympathizer. Friend to Ahmadinejad. Purveyor of conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism. Destroyer of press freedoms.

And yet Chavez was still the best leader Venezuela ever had compared to those right wingers that had exploited the country and kept it poor despite the vast national resources.

84 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:14:31pm

re: #79 sattv4u2

We’re gonna need a bigger gravestone!

Oh there’s more.

85 Lidane  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:15:47pm

re: #78 Gus

Hugo Chavez. Terrorist sympathizer. Friend to Ahmadinejad. Purveyor of conspiracy theories and anti-Semitism. Destroyer of press freedoms.

And pining for the flords.

86 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:15:53pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

He was a pretty big douchebag but not bad enough for me to dance on his grave. I do hope it’s the best thing for Venezuela.

Hugo Chavez is what you get when your resource rich country is ruled by a few rich oligarchical families that suck the nation’s wealth up and leave scraps for the rest of the population.

87 Lidane  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:16:24pm

re: #86 Destro

Hugo Chavez is what you get when your resource rich country is ruled by a few rich oligarchical families that suck the nation’s wealth up and leave scraps for the rest of the population.

So it’s a Republican utopia, then.

88 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:16:37pm

Buwaahaahaa! Our cancer drones worked after all, in spite of all that superior Cuban medical technique. It is well known of course that natural cancer never occurs in Venezuela, thanks to voodoo and the inherent superiority of the population.

What we see in Venezuela is not a communist country, a socialist country, or even a traditional dictatorship. It is a dictatorship of the media and media values, a country ruled by conspiracy theorists and and adolescent contrarians. Like any conspiracy huckster, or any other dictator for that matter, Chavez had to have an all-powerful enemy so he could glorify himself by defying it. The identity of that enemy is obvious, and he would reflexively accept anyone who shared the same enemy: Communist Cuba and North Korea on the one hand, and rabidly anti-communist Iran on the other, with Baathist Syria in the middle.

89 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:16:51pm

re: #72 Kragar (Antichrist )

House Republicans Propose Rolling Back Access To Birth Control To Avert Government Shutdown

They never fucking let up.

My life’s work is now to get every single Republican tossed out of office.

QFT. When I lay out my politics these days, I sound like a raving partisan: no votes for any Republican, for any office, at any level. I have not heard a Republican policy proposal in at least the last 10 years that wasn’t evil, repellant garbage. All legitimate policy debates in the US can be represented in the various factions of the Democratic party (which needs to split after the GOP withers away).

The GOP contributes nothing except toxic waste to US politics these days.

GOP apparatchiks should be deeply concerned that they have lost me this badly —- I am white, middle aged, part owner of a small business, and first started paying attention to politics in the late 70s. I leaned republican for many years, and even voted for W in 2000.

The enormity of the GOP fail I have seen since 2000 far outweighs my first political impression of democratic fail in the Carter years.

90 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:17:30pm

I just heard Chavez died.

Shit happens.

91 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:17:49pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

He was a pretty big douchebag but not bad enough for me to dance on his grave. I do hope it’s the best thing for Venezuela.

I’m not dancing on his grave. I’m a realist and realize that the Chavistas will continue to manipulate the public, elections and the press in order to maintain their soft dictatorship.

92 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:20:22pm

re: #91 Gus

I’m not dancing on his grave. I’m a realist and realize that the Chavistas will continue to manipulate the public, elections and the press in order to maintain their soft dictatorship.

If they can consolidate power fairly quickly. They’ve had plenty of advance notice so they might have things lined up but when a strongman passes away it leaves a big vacuum. It’s safe to assume others have been planning for this too.

93 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:20:26pm

Time to liberate Venezuelan oil. Bring on the drones.

94 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:20:27pm

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

I just heard Chavez died.

Shit happens.

inorite

95 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:20:58pm

re: #86 Destro

Hugo Chavez is what you get when your resource rich country is ruled by a few rich oligarchical families that suck the nation’s wealth up and leave scraps for the rest of the population.

I thought that was the USA.

96 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:21:04pm

re: #83 Destro

And yet Chavez was still the best leader Venezuela ever had compared to those right wingers that had exploited the country and kept it poor despite the vast national resources.

Which right-wingers?

And Ramón José Velásquez was a much better leader.

97 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:21:19pm

The yokel libertarians here in Lubbock adored Chavez. Why in hell would they do that, you ask? Isn’t socialism the work of the devil in their eyes? Truth is, they don’t care that he talked socialism, they saw through that immediately. They liked him because he was a conspiracy monger and an obnoxious contrarian, a bird of a feather when the fig leaf of traditional ideology is stripped away.

98 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:22:13pm

re: #93 b_sharp

Time to liberate Venezuelan oil. Bring on the drones.

Too late. The drones are committed for Maricopa County.

99 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:23:20pm

Who else is seeking to set up a state based on conspiracy theories? How about the media faction pushing the notion of DHS buying 2700 tanks?

100 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:23:53pm

I wonder if Sean Penn is going to be a pallbearer?

101 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:23:55pm
102 Lidane  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:24:05pm

Hugo Chavez’s best moment was when the King of Spain told him to STFU.

103 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:24:59pm

re: #83 Destro

And yet Chavez was still the best leader Venezuela ever had compared to those right wingers that had exploited the country and kept it poor despite the vast national resources.

They haven;t had anything resembling a “right wing” leading them since the late 1800’s!

104 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:25:27pm

re: #102 Lidane

Hugo Chavez’s best moment was when the King of Spain told him to STFU.

As proper American rebels, I think we’re supposed to root for the guy that pisses off the king.

105 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:27:06pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

As proper American rebels, I think we’re supposed to root for the guy that pisses off the king.

It’s good to be the king

106 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:31:53pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

As proper American rebels, I think we’re supposed to root for the guy that pisses off the king.

We haven’t had a notable level of rebelliousness in the US for a long time, perhaps too long.

107 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:32:18pm

re: #96 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Which right-wingers?

And Ramón José Velásquez was a much better leader.

That guys was an stand in president while the corrupt previous right winger was impeached for stealing millions from the country. He was in office for what? a year? People were starving in Venez in the 90s.

108 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:32:43pm

re: #106 EPR-radar

We haven’t had a notable level of rebelliousness in the US for a long time, perhaps too long.

Don’t live in Dixie, do ya’?

109 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:33:29pm

re: #103 sattv4u2

They haven;t had anything resembling a “right wing” leading them since the late 1800’s!

I equate any military junta as right wing.

110 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:34:25pm
“I’m going to leave here someday, but when I leave I’m going to hand over the government to a revolutionary, and surely someone more revolutionary than I am. The revolution … has arrived to stay though all of this century, and past the 22nd century.”
~ Hugo Chavez
111 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:34:43pm

re: #108 Decatur Deb

Don’t live in Dixie, do ya’?

Nope. Correction duly noted. Also, I was thinking more of a useful form of rebelliousness, as opposed to the dead ended nonsense of neo-confederacy and the militia tinfoil hat brigades.

113 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:36:43pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

I thought that was the USA.

The USA has with it’s wealth disparity entered very close to banana republic territory:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

In my reporting, I regularly travel to banana republics notorious for their inequality. In some of these plutocracies, the richest 1 percent of the population gobbles up 20 percent of the national pie.

But guess what? You no longer need to travel to distant and dangerous countries to observe such rapacious inequality. We now have it right here at home — and in the aftermath of Tuesday’s election, it may get worse.

The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana.

114 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:38:06pm

re: #109 Destro

I equate any military junta as right wing.

The Anti-Goldberg thesis, under which Fidel and Raul become ‘right-wing’.

115 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:39:47pm

re: #113 Destro

The USA has with it’s wealth disparity entered very close to banana republic territory:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

In my reporting, I regularly travel to banana republics notorious for their inequality. In some of these plutocracies, the richest 1 percent of the population gobbles up 20 percent of the national pie.

But guess what? You no longer need to travel to distant and dangerous countries to observe such rapacious inequality. We now have it right here at home — and in the aftermath of Tuesday’s election, it may get worse.

The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana.

One of the main purposes of the clown show that US politics has become is to distract people from this painfully simple fact of life in the US.

116 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:39:52pm

re: #113 Destro

That’s because the USA has many more billionaires. There’s no comparison to poverty in the USA and poverty in Venezuela. Apples and oranges.

117 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:40:58pm

And the Derps just keep rolling in:

Obama administration buying up all ammo to keep it from citizens?

Gun control has been a hot topic and Barack Obama’s primary legislative goal in his second term. We have celebrities making PSA announcements to make guns illegal. the mainstream media continues to hammer away at gun advocates.

The problem is that pesky amendment to the Constitution keeps getting in his way. Well, that AND polls are again starting to even out again after Sandy Hook. So what can the government do if they can not take away our guns?

They take away the bullets! have you noticed all of the ammo shelves empty lately? The Obama administration is going to weapons manufacturers, and buying up all of the ammo. Specifically the Department of Homeland Security bought 2 billion rounds of annunition recently.

How dare they buy all the annunition!

118 makeitstop  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:41:00pm

A friend of mine covers Shocking Blue/Bananarama instrumentally.

119 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:41:28pm

re: #116 Gus

That’s because the USA has many more billionaires. There’s no comparison to poverty in the USA and poverty in Venezuela. Apples and oranges.

Not so incidentally, the GOP wants to make poverty in the US more like poverty in Venezuela.

120 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:42:02pm

re: #116 Gus

That’s because the USA has many more billionaires. There’s no comparison to poverty in the USA and poverty in Venezuela. Apples and oranges.

Apples, oranges, and Relative Deprivation Theory.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

121 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:44:11pm

re: #107 Destro

That guys was an stand in president while the corrupt previous right winger was impeached for stealing millions from the country. He was in office for what? a year? People were starving in Venez in the 90s.

He was mostly just totally corrupt- he was happy to be a left-winger or a right-winger as the situation demanded.

Anyway, you don’t think Rafael Caldera was better than Chavez? Really? He inherited the economic crisis, he didn’t start it, he wasn’t a right-winger, and he was a lot better on press freedom.

122 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:44:13pm

re: #114 Decatur Deb

The Anti-Goldberg thesis, under which Fidel and Raul become ‘right-wing’.

Revolutionaries who take up arms are not the military - Venezuela was like many Latin nations influenced or directly ruled by the institutional military wing of the govt.

123 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:44:59pm

re: #109 Destro

I equate any military junta as right wing.

That gets awkward when you equate left-wing military juntas as right wing. Convenient, but awkward.

124 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:45:46pm

denouncing environmentalists as “crazies” and “religious fanatics,” who are “unreasonable” and “doctrinaire.”

geez you guys act like the laws of physics are like immutable or something

125 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:45:56pm

I’m one of those hesitant to give Chavez a blanket demonization.

Under his tenure the nation’s GDP quadrupled. Under his tenure the nation’s poverty rate halved. Under his tenure the infant mortality rate dropped from 26 to 20 deaths per thousand live births.

Basically, by most practical measures the lives of the general population improved under his tenure.

He was very anti-American and so I will not praise him. But he did right by his people and so I am hesitant to condemn.

126 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:48:26pm

re: #125 kirkspencer

I’m one of those hesitant to give Chavez a blanket demonization.

Under his tenure the nation’s GDP quadrupled. Under his tenure the nation’s poverty rate halved. Under his tenure the infant mortality rate dropped from 26 to 20 deaths per thousand live births.

Basically, by most practical measures the lives of the general population improved under his tenure.

He was very anti-American and so I will not praise him. But he did right by his people and so I am hesitant to condemn.

Nations don’t get from 19th Cent tyranny to 21st Cent democracy in a single leap. Russia, China, Cuba, and the rest.

128 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:49:45pm

re: #125 kirkspencer

He was very anti-American and so I will not praise him. But he did right by his people and so I am hesitant to condemn.

Destroying press freedom isn’t doing right by your people. Nor are many of his other political abuses.

[Link: www.hrw.org…]

President Hugo Chávez, who has governed Venezuela for 14 years, was elected to another six-year term in October 2012. During his presidency, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and the erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled his government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute Venezuelans who criticize the president or thwart his political agenda. President Chávez and his supporters have used their powers in a wide range of cases involving the judiciary, the media, and human rights defenders. Prison violence and police abuse remain serious problems.

You’re using the ‘he made the trains run on time’ argument.

129 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:50:13pm

re: #122 Destro

Revolutionaries who take up arms are not the military - Venezuela was like many Latin nations influenced or directly ruled by the institutional military wing of the govt.

Hey. You never answered my question. Were you once a Freeper?

130 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:51:52pm

re: #121 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

He was mostly just totally corrupt- he was happy to be a left-winger or a right-winger as the situation demanded.

Anyway, you don’t think Rafael Caldera was better than Chavez? Really? He inherited the economic crisis, he didn’t start it, he wasn’t a right-winger, and he was a lot better on press freedom.

But he did nothing. OK, maybe he was a good guy in that intellectual scholar kind of way but people were starving in Venezuela in the 90s - food riots - in an oil rich state.

This is what the Pro-American Venezuelan regime was doing to it’s own starving people in 1990:

[Link: www.unhcr.org…]

Venezuela: Information on protests in Caracas on 5 February 1990; on the number of participants, on the groups involved, and on the rape by the police of those women detained for participating in the protest

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

The Caracazo or sacudón is the name given to the wave of protests, riots and looting and ensuing massacre[1] that occurred on 27 February 1989 in the Venezuelan capital Caracas and surrounding towns. The riots — the worst in Venezuelan history — resulted in a death toll of 3,000 deaths,[2] mostly at the hands of security forces. The main reason for the protests were the neoliberal, pro-market reforms imposed by the government of Carlos Andrés Pérez, who had recently been elected in a campaign where he promised the opposite of such reforms.[1]

In 1989, Carlos Andrés Pérez (1922–2010), the candidate of the centrist Democratic Action Party, was elected President after promising to oppose the United States government’s Washington Consensus and financial policies recommended by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Nevertheless, he did neither once he got into office, following instead the neoliberal economic policies supported by the United States and the IMF. He dramatically cut spending, put prominent men in governmental posts. Pérez’s policies angered some of the public.[64][65][66] In an attempt to stop the widespread protests and looting that followed his social spending cuts, Pérez ordered the violent repression and massacre of protesters known as El Caracazo, which “according to official figures … left a balance of 276 dead, numerous injured, several disappeared and heavy material losses. However, this list was invalidated by the subsequent appearance of mass graves”, indicating that the official death count was inadequate.[67][68][69] Pérez had used both the DISIP political police and the army to orchestrate El Caracazo. Chávez did not participate in the repression because he was then hospitalized with chicken pox, and later condemned the event as “genocide”.[70][71]

131 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:52:41pm
132 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:52:56pm

Joy.
[Link: www.weather.com…]

133 Lidane  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:53:21pm
134 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:53:33pm

re: #123 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

That gets awkward when you equate left-wing military juntas as right wing. Convenient, but awkward.

Depends. Left wings usually overthrow govts with institutional militaries. I know the left then sets up their own military system but they christen these armies revolutionary armies (Red army, People’s armies) but you claim you are a collectivist and know this already - or should.

135 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:54:01pm

Blech. I’m out.

136 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:55:05pm

re: #11 geoffm33

So I’ve been researching George Wallace a bit after this tweet-convo:

From Wikipedia:

Yeah, model Democrat by todays standards.

Link

Betsey tweets derp.

137 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:55:11pm

re: #134 Destro

Depends. Left wings usually overthrow govts with institutional militaries. I know the left then sets up their own military system but they christen these armies revolutionary armies (Red army, People’s armies) but you claim you are a collectivist and know this already - or should.

Rule of the Colonels is Rule of the Colonels, flag-immaterial.

138 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:55:22pm

DERP

139 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:56:37pm

re: #130 Destro

But he did nothing. OK, maybe he was a good guy in that intellectual scholar kind of way but people were starving in Venezuela in the 90s - food riots - in an oil rich state.

Again, he inherited an economic crisis. I’m sure you can criticize his economic policies, but Chavez has done a fuckload of economic damage, too.

I’d say he was a good guy in that ‘not using the government to intimidate people from reporting on prison conditions’ way. I’m kind of a softy for that.

140 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:56:54pm

Hey guys just spent six hours out in the cold and finally got home, how are things going?

141 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:57:23pm

re: #138 Vicious Babushka

They are all about what’s good for America.

Xenophobia, bigotry and ignorance?

142 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:57:47pm

Venezuela deploys army, police after Chavez death: VP

Venezuela deployed its army and police in the wake of today’s announcement of President Hugo Chavez’s death, as the nation entered a period of political uncertainty and national mourning.

Vice President Nicolas Maduro said in a nationwide television broadcast that a special deployment was “at this very moment” being rolled out “to accompany and protect our people and guarantee the peace.”

Meanwhile Venezuela’s military chiefs appeared live on state TV on Tuesday to pledge their loyalty to Maduro following the death of Chavez.

I checked for live Venezuelan TV channels , the only ones available were state tv and they aren’t showing reaction in the streets, just replaying old Chavez speeches.

143 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:57:49pm

re: #128 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Destroying press freedom isn’t doing right by your people. Nor are many of his other political abuses.

[Link: www.hrw.org…]

You’re using the ‘he made the trains run on time’ argument.

I’m not a fan of the “trains run on time” argument, or of political repression in general.

However, even a completely ideal political system in a relatively small/poor country seems certain to be subverted more or less completely by large multinationals for a pittance.

144 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:58:56pm

WE CAN’T EVER HAZ RENEWABLE ENERGY BECAUSE SOLYNDRA! SOLYNDRA! SOLYNDRAGHAZI!!!!11111

145 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:59:12pm

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Venezuela deploys army, police after Chavez death: VP

I checked for live Venezuelan TV channels , the only ones available were state tv and they aren’t showing reaction in the streets, just replaying old Chavez speeches.

Gets a 98% Nielsen share.

146 Stanley Sea  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:59:51pm

re: #131 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

GOP Rep Offers Amendment Prohibiting Obama From Playing Golf Until White House Tours Resume

No, it’s not The Onion. It’s Louie Gohmert.

LOL clowns

147 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 2:59:59pm

re: #134 Destro

Depends. Left wings usually overthrow govts with institutional militaries.

Well, as long as you’re agreeing that it happens and you were wrong to claim it didn’t, I guess— not that you’re bothering with that, really.

I’m not sure what me being a ‘collectivist’— what I actually said was that I’m probably more of a collectivist than you— has to do with that. I could still be an ignorant collectivist.

There are left-wing military takeovers. Sometimes of other military regimes, sometimes not.

148 Mich-again  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:00:25pm

Ah yes The Heartland Institute. Good thing they aren’t lobbyists because that would be a violation of their 501(c)(3) tax exempt status. Yep, when climate denying nuts donate money to the Heartland Institute they can claim it as a deduction on their taxes just like they dropped the money in the collection basket at church.

149 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:01:04pm

re: #143 EPR-radar

I’m not a fan of the “trains run on time” argument, or of political repression in general.

However, even a completely ideal political system in a relatively small/poor country seems certain to be subverted more or less completely by large multinationals for a pittance.

I’m not sure what the takeaway from this is. It’s pointless to try democracy in a small or poor country because it’ll just get subverted anyway, therefore Chavez’s undermining of democracy is no big deal?

150 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:03:00pm

re: #141 Kragar (Antichrist )

Xenophobia, bigotry and ignorance?

don’t forget ‘lying’

151 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:03:08pm

re: #128 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Destroying press freedom isn’t doing right by your people. Nor are many of his other political abuses.

[Link: www.hrw.org…]

I note that his predecessors were guilty of the same.

You’re using the ‘he made the trains run on time’ argument.

Yes, I am. On the other hand it’s much easier to talk politics and philosophy when starvation and illness are held at bay.

I repeat myself. I will not praise Chavez. But he was enough of an improvement over what preceded him I will not condemn him.

152 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:04:01pm

re: #149 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’m not sure what the takeaway from this is. It’s pointless to try democracy in a small or poor country because it’ll just get subverted anyway, therefore Chavez’s undermining of democracy is no big deal?

Democracies are not formed without ‘outside’ support. If you want the US to support your fledgling democracy, it helps if you don’t have oil, fruit, or mines.

153 Lidane  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:04:53pm

Ugh. One of my idiot wingnut relatives just derped this:

ATTENTION ALL AMERICANS: Chavez is dead! So that means Venezuela is without a DICTATOR. LETS SHOW THEM RESPECT BY GIVE THEM OURS!!!

And he says that liberals are the dumb ones. *sigh*

154 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:05:04pm

re: #109 Destro

I equate any military junta as right wing.

Of course you do

155 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:05:22pm

re: #149 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’m not sure what the takeaway from this is. It’s pointless to try democracy in a small or poor country because it’ll just get subverted anyway, therefore Chavez’s undermining of democracy is no big deal?

Not quite so pessimistic as that. Undermining of democracy needs to be pointed out, but it may be a bit naive to assume that the fix is at all simple.

I’m certainly not aware of any easy fixes.

156 erik_t  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:05:22pm

re: #148 Mich-again

when climate denying nuts donate money to the Heartland Institute they can claim it as a deduction on their taxes just like they dropped the money in the collection basket at church.

Not sure, frankly, that one is much worse than the other from a exemption-from-taxes point of view.

157 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:05:43pm

re: #151 kirkspencer

I note that his predecessors were guilty of the same.

Not all of them were, as the Human Rights Watch report notes. He made the situation worse. He weakened democracy in Venezuala.

Yes, I am. On the other hand it’s much easier to talk politics and philosophy when starvation and illness are held at bay.

Yep. Which is why a populist leader like Chavez can stay in power even as he saps democratic institutions and becomes more and more of a tyrant.

I repeat myself. I will not praise Chavez. But he was enough of an improvement over what preceded him I will not condemn him.

I will. I will condemn him for using the police and the prisons to punish his political enemies, for shutting down presses and destroying the lives and careers of journalists. I will condemn him for undermining democracy in his country, the only real hope of rising above the cycle of corruption and revolution that the country has endured. I will condemn him for the many lies and pieces of disinformation he’s fed to his people as propaganda.

158 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:07:20pm

re: #152 Decatur Deb

Democracies are not formed without ‘outside’ support. If you want the US to support your fledgling democracy, it helps if you don’t have oil, fruit, or mines.

I’m not in any way saying that the US doesn’t undermine democracy— we did a fuckload of democracy-undermining that we should be absolutely ashamed of, and a lot of the problems in the world today are a result of our cynicism in foreign policy post WWII. Marshall was gone too soon.

159 erik_t  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:08:45pm

Also, how in the hell is Fidel still alive? You realize he handed over power (on a temporary basis, at first) nearly seven years ago!?

160 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:09:31pm
161 geoffm33  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:09:40pm

re: #136 Vicious Babushka

Exactly. I’m done engaging wingnuts on twitter. Bad for my health.

162 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:10:08pm

re: #159 erik_t

Also, how in the hell is Fidel still alive? You realize he handed over power (on a temporary basis, at first) nearly seven years ago!?

His Cuban doctors are a lot better than Hugo’s Cuban doctors were!!
//

163 erik_t  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:11:36pm

re: #162 sattv4u2

His Cuban doctors are a lot better than Hugo’s Cuban doctors were!!
//

I think he was actually sapping Chavez’s woo-woo spiritual essence, like a Communist Dementor or something.

164 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:12:35pm

re: #159 erik_t

Also, how in the hell is Fidel still alive? You realize he handed over power (on a temporary basis, at first) nearly seven years ago!?

He’s about the last old school anti-American world leader left. Ghadaffi, Hussein, Chavez, Kim Jong Il. All gone.

165 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:12:40pm

re: #163 erik_t

I think he was actually sapping Chavez’s woo-woo spiritual essence, like a Communist Dementor or something.

“Hugo, Fidel is here to visit you and lay his hands on your head. Don’t worry if you feel a tad woozy for awhile!”

166 Mich-again  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:13:31pm

re: #156 erik_t

Not sure, frankly, that one is much worse than the other from a exemption-from-taxes point of view.

If it were up to me I’d blow up the entire tax-exempt 501(c)(3) rule. Its a house ridden with termites. Just tear it down.

167 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:13:48pm

Rest assured the oil industry cabal is licking their lips.

168 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:14:22pm

Does this mean oil prices are going to spike?

169 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:17:00pm

re: #166 Mich-again

If it were up to me I’d blow up the entire tax-exempt 501(c)(3) rule. Its a house ridden with termites. Just tear it down.

It needs to be replaced by something for legitimate charity, though.

170 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:17:13pm

re: #168 Eclectic Cyborg

Does this mean oil prices are going to spike?

Depends
If there is a quiet transition between Hugo’s passing and Maduro taking over, then no

If there is unrest and the military steps in, then yes

171 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:17:45pm

re: #159 erik_t

Also, how in the hell is Fidel still alive? You realize he handed over power (on a temporary basis, at first) nearly seven years ago!?

Keith Richards is his personal trainer.

172 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:17:47pm

re: #164 Eclectic Cyborg

He’s about the last old school anti-American world leader left. Ghadaffi, Hussein, Chavez, Kim Jong Il. All gone.

You left out Ron Paul, Pat Robertson, and Pat Buchanan. I guess Paul isn’t really a world leader, although I once did to a link to site for the “Ron Paul supporters of India and Pakistan.”
This prompted what was, imho, one of the funniest comments ever at LGF:
“It’s so bad we’re outsourcing our nutjobs now” or words to that effect.

As for the Pats, Robertson has many fans in Africa while Buchanan has a large following among European nationalists.

173 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:20:34pm

re: #168 Eclectic Cyborg

re: #170 sattv4u2

Depends
If there is a quiet transition between Hugo’s passing and Maduro taking over, then no

If there is unrest and the military steps in, then yes

Correction. The head of their congress takes over, NOT the VP, but the same scenario applies

174 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:22:05pm
175 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:24:19pm
176 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:26:21pm

LOL

177 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:28:28pm

Chavez death echoes with leftists worldwide

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter released a statement saying Chavez “will be remembered for his bold assertion of autonomy and independence for Latin American governments.”

178 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:29:59pm

It’s good to be the king el presidente

[Link: newsfromvenezuela.tumblr.com…]

Criminal Justice International Associates (CJIA), a risk assessment and global analysis firm in Miami, estimated in a recent report that the Chávez Frías family in Venezuela has “amassed a fortune” similar to that of the Castro brothers in Cuba.

179 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:30:44pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

LOL

I left a comment at that site.

180 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:31:55pm

Chavez leaves a revolutionary legacy

“(Chavez) has definitely given an identity and feeling of self-respect to people who felt invisible and ignored,” said Jennifer McCoy, director of the Americas Program at the Carter Center in Atlanta. “The lasting thing about this is, people who benefited will continue to demand participation in the political and social system.”

181 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:33:28pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

It’s good to be the king el presidente

[Link: newsfromvenezuela.tumblr.com…]

Criminal Justice International Associates (CJIA), a risk assessment and global analysis firm in Miami, estimated in a recent report that the Chávez Frías family in Venezuela has “amassed a fortune” similar to that of the Castro brothers in Cuba.

Never trust a wealthy socialist. I learned that from my last employer.

182 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:33:57pm

re: #179 Sionainn

I left a comment at that site.

Nice!

183 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:34:20pm

Via a Reine retweet:

184 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:34:32pm

Ding-Dong, the witch is dead!

185 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:34:53pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

LOL

WHAT IN THE EVER LOVING CRAP?!?!?!?!

186 jaunte  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:35:30pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Reed Irvine, a.k.a. the Nuke Iraq nutbag.

187 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:36:12pm

re: #161 geoffm33

Exactly. I’m done engaging wingnuts on twitter. Bad for my health.

I still correct Fake Quotes. Wingnuts block me when I do that.

AAAIIIEEEEE!1! TEH LIBRUL HAZ FACTS!1111 BLOCK IT! BLOCK TEH LIBRUL TROLL!!!!!11111

188 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:36:53pm

re: #185 Eclectic Cyborg

WHAT IN THE EVER LOVING CRAP?!?!?!?!

Forget it Jake, it’s CPAC.

189 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:37:39pm

White House statement on Hugo Chavez

Statement of President Obama on the Death of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

At this challenging time of President Hugo Chavez’s passing, the United States reaffirms its support for the Venezuelan people and its interest in developing a constructive relationship with the Venezuelan government.

As Venezuela begins a new chapter in its history, the United States remains committed to policies that promote democratic principles, the rule of law, and respect for human rights.

190 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:37:54pm

re: #188 wrenchwench

Forget it Jake, it’s CPAC.

Still though…Jim Hoft…of all people. There are plenty of nutbags to choose from that are a LITTLE better than him.

191 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:38:14pm

re: #187 Vicious Babushka

Facts are to Wingnuts as Kryptonite is to Superman.

192 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:38:43pm

re: #190 Eclectic Cyborg

Still though…Jim Hoft…of all people. There are plenty of nutbags to choose from that are a LITTLE better than him.

What you consider ‘a little better’ they consider ‘not quite as good’.

193 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:40:05pm

[Link: soundcloud.com…]
Testing
Just trying Soundcloud, maybe this will work. The inimitable Buckethead -“Look Up There” a 21+ minute opus

194 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:40:23pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

What you consider ‘a little better’ they consider ‘not quite as good’.

Full newspeak rules apply: the stupidest and most prolific liar on the net gets the “Accuracy in Media” award.

195 jaunte  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:41:42pm

“Accuracy in Media” was also the biggest promoter of the ‘Vince Foster was murdered by Hilary Clinton’ fairytale.

196 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:41:59pm

re: #49 Kragar (Antichrist )

Okay. Way too funny to be true. Thank goodness these people are not in the White House.

197 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:42:38pm

They might as well have given it to Alex Jones. Speaks conspiracy to the powerderp in a way that Hoft never has, but Hoft is apparently closing that gap quickly.

198 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:42:39pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

Full newspeak rules apply: the stupidest and most prolific liar on the net gets the “Accuracy in Media” award.

Accuracy is measured not in real world terms but in how closely the story matches the right’s desired reality.

199 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:43:17pm

re: #195 jaunte

“Accuracy in Media” was also the biggest promoter of the ‘Vince Foster was murdered by Hilary Clinton’ fairytale.

Interesting. The players remain the same, and the only thing that changes are the tunes in the RW hurdy-gurdy.

200 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:45:33pm

re: #81 DREd

So Obama nominated a man and woman to his cabinet and the right wing is most upset about the woman? Thank god I keep my fainting couch so close to hand.

Not a woman. She’s a LEZZBIEN!

201 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:46:24pm
202 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:46:41pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

LOL

Just remember, at the same time I’m updinging you for posting this, I’m downdinging the entire fucking country.

203 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:48:11pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Another classic moment in right wing journalism.

204 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:49:15pm

re: #202 BongCrodny

Just remember, at the same time I’m updinging you for posting this, I’m downdinging the entire fucking country.

This is a RW circle jerk. Why blame the whole country for it?

205 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:49:25pm

DERP


The “sin of Sodom” in case you haven’t ever read the Bible (which these derping wingnuts apparently have not), was cruelty to the poor and homeless, NOT (as self-described “religious” insist) homosexuality. The reason that Lot’s house was surrounded by the mob, is because it was their custom to MISTREAT AND RAPE the homeless, not because they were Teh Ghey.

Anyone who doubts this please go and read Genesis 19.

Oh and make sure to read the part where Lot has sex with his daughters, AFTER HE OFFERS THEM TO THE FRENZIED “GAY” MOB.

206 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:51:21pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

Another classic moment in right wing journalism.

The higher the number of Obama targeted exposés the more accurate the news, even if half of them have to be invented for the purpose.

207 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:53:12pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

Another classic moment in right wing journalism.

This calls for an article!

BREAKING: DUMBEST MAN ON THE INTERNET TO RECEIVE REED IRVINE ACCURACY IN MEDIA AWARDS AT CPAC!

208 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:54:03pm

re: #207 Gus

You can’t make that up!

209 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:54:16pm

Congressman from New York

210 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:54:21pm

Note to self, drink less coffee.

211 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 3:55:22pm

re: #208 lawhawk

You can’t make that up!

Especially after this latest “Obama tanks!” BS. Apparently someone signed up with LGF this afternoon to express his concern about my “factchecking.”

212 jaunte  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:00:19pm

re: #210 NJDhockeyfan

That’s how he made it all the way through his “Alo Presidente’ shows.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

213 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:10:36pm

re: #191 EPR-radar

Facts are to Wingnuts as Kryptonite is to Superman.

except that superman doesn’t scream and hide when he sees kryptonite

214 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:12:02pm

re: #210 NJDhockeyfan

Note to self, drink less coffee.

Or use cream and sugar.

215 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:12:57pm
216 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:13:56pm
217 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:15:03pm
218 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:15:54pm

re: #205 Vicious Babushka

DERP


The “sin of Sodom” in case you haven’t ever read the Bible (which these derping wingnuts apparently have not), was cruelty to the poor and homeless, NOT (as self-described “religious” insist) homosexuality. The reason that Lot’s house was surrounded by the mob, is because it was their custom to MISTREAT AND RAPE the homeless, not because they were Teh Ghey.

Anyone who doubts this please go and read Genesis 19.

Oh and make sure to read the part where Lot has sex with his daughters, AFTER HE OFFERS THEM TO THE FRENZIED “GAY” MOB.

Raping the poor and the homeless is a time honored conservative position though.

219 jaunte  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:16:41pm

re: #217 Gus

Put Rodman into the middle of that one.

220 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:18:00pm
221 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:18:45pm

re: #209 Killgore Trout

Congressman from New York

Yup. He empowered himself and family to about 2 Billion dollars worth!!

222 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:19:46pm
223 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:19:52pm

Ah well
Nap time, then the long quiet drive in to work!!

bbl

224 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:20:24pm
225 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:21:05pm

re: #219 jaunte

Put Rodman into the middle of that one.

226 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:24:00pm

Ex-US Rep. Joe Kennedy mourns death of Chavez

Former U.S. Rep. Joseph Kennedy II is mourning the death of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, saying he cared deeply about the poor.

Kennedy, who heads Citizens Energy, said Chavez and the people of Venezuela donated about 200 million gallons of heating oil to Citizens Energy, which distributes oil to lower income families in 25 states and Washington D.C.

The program offers 100 gallons of free oil per family. Kennedy said nearly two million people in the United States received the assistance thanks to Chavez.

Kennedy said Chavez cared about the poor at a time when “some of the wealthiest people on our planet have more money than they can ever reasonably expect to spend.”

Kennedy, a nephew of President John F. Kennedy, said his prayers go to Chavez’s family and the Venezuelan people.

227 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:27:03pm
228 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:28:04pm

Even the dopes at Think Progress have enough sense to know that fawning over Chavez is just going to provide bad publicity.
Why Democrats Shouldn’t Eulogize Hugo Chavez
It’s just common sense. I know Chavez has some emotional appeal to political instincts of progressives but it should be tempered with a little common sense. Praising leftist authoritarians just looks bad.

229 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:28:24pm

re: #227 NJDhockeyfan

Image: image.jpg

lol

230 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:28:25pm

Former DEA chief won’t say why marijuana is different than alcohol

Asa Hutchinson, a former Administrator of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, on Tuesday refused to say why marijuana shouldn’t be taxed and regulated like alcohol.

“Explain why alcohol should be regulated but marijuana is different?” CNN host Wolf Blitzer asked.

“Well, that is a debate that can be conducted in the halls of Congress,” Hutchinson replied. “Whenever you’re looking at marijuana, it is a harmful drug. If you legalize it, it is going to expand use. Certainly our democracy is not going to fall if you legalize it. It is a question that our country needs to decide and its a fair debate.”

231 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:29:26pm
232 jaunte  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:31:39pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout


Good points to keep in mind.

Chavez’ policies harmed Venezuela’s poorest in other ways: the value of the Venezuelan currency dropped while prices soared, making it harder for people to buy basic necessities, and crime skyrocketed.

roughly half of Venezuelan Jews fled the country because of “the social and economic chaos that the president has unleashed and from the uncomfortable feeling that they were being specifically targeted by the regime.”

Chavez also attacked Venezuela’s democratic political system. Human Rights Watch reported in 2012 that “the accumulation of power in the executive and the erosion of human rights protections have allowed the Chávez government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute critics and perceived opponents in a wide range of cases involving the judiciary, the media, and civil society.

233 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:36:22pm
234 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:36:27pm
235 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:42:51pm
236 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:44:10pm

HAHAHA DERP

237 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:44:59pm

re: #234 Gus

This is Pakistan we are talking about.

What did you expect to happen. We are not talking about Bangladesh here.

238 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:45:28pm
239 efuseakay  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:46:20pm

Hey, at least Hugo didn’t go invading other countries on false pretenses lies.

240 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:46:39pm

HAHAHA MOAR DERP

241 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:49:30pm

re: #239 efuseakay

No, he just tried to destabilize and topple a neighbor by use of a terrorist group. (FARC)

242 AlexRogan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:50:35pm

re: #1 Ghost of Tom Joad

So, administration appoints people who will try to avoid us having air like China, right wing freaks out. Awesome. If they love coal so much, they should just suck on their pick-up truck’s tailpipe for an hour every day.

Marginally better than sucking on Ted Nugent’s machine gun, I’ll bet.

243 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:50:51pm

re: #238 NJDhockeyfan

But at the same time, I’m not listening to a bunch of Libertarian Nutjobs who want to return us to the days of Dickens and the Irish Potato Famine.

244 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:52:56pm

Conservative Friendly Fire incidents are always the most fun to watch.

245 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:53:41pm

re: #234 Gus

There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

246 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:54:23pm

*FACE PALM* DERP

247 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:55:28pm

DERP

248 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:57:18pm

re: #244 Kragar (Antichrist )

Conservative Friendly Fire incidents are always the most fun to watch.

‘Derp on derp’

249 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:58:02pm

re: #246 Vicious Babushka

Those “cheaper cities” are a dime-a-dozen smog zones like Houston, Dallas, and Los Angeles.

Now, we are aren’t going to hand out jobs to ignorant hayseeds like them. If they want to wallow in self-pity and wait for a handout. Because that is exactly what he seems to want. Nice cushy job for the good ol’ boys.

I though Albion’s Seed has an interesting hypothesis.

250 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 4:59:59pm

Off for some family time, later guys

251 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:00:28pm

re: #249 ProBosniaLiberal

Those “cheaper cities” are a dime-a-dozen smog zones like Houston, Dallas, and Los Angeles.

Detroit.

252 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:01:36pm

re: #249 ProBosniaLiberal

Those “cheaper cities” are a dime-a-dozen smog zones like Houston, Dallas, and Los Angeles.

Now, we are aren’t going to hand out jobs to ignorant hayseeds like them. If they want to wallow in self-pity and wait for a handout. Because that is exactly what he seems to want. Nice cushy job for the good ol’ boys.

I though Albion’s Seed has an interesting hypothesis.

Actually, the idiot is decades behind the times. The Fed, including the Army relocated organizations like my HQDA shop all over the country. We wound up in the Alabama Pentagon. West Virginia near the Shenandoah Valley is full of DC colonies.

253 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:02:20pm

Congressman praises Hugo Chavez: ‘R.I.P. Mr. President.’

Many members of Congress are responding to the death of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez by saying it’s a chance for the country to move beyond his reign.

One, though, is fondly remembering the former president. That would be Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.):

254 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:03:55pm

re: #251 Vicious Babushka

Detroit is a city on hard times that needs a little help. It doesn’t hurt that it is a Northern City that was once one of the greatest arsenals in history.

Detroit has more culture and history than the soulless sprawls of Los Angeles, Dallas, and Houston.

255 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:05:24pm
256 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:08:13pm

re: #235 Vicious Babushka

jealous of people living on food stamps!!

!!!!

it iz a puzzlement!!

257 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:08:31pm

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

Congressman praises Hugo Chavez: ‘R.I.P. Mr. President.’

‘RIP’ is the correct thing to say about a dead human—any dead human.

258 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:09:07pm

re: #254 ProBosniaLiberal

Detroit is a city on hard times that needs a little help. It doesn’t hurt that it is a Northern City that was once one of the greatest arsenals in history.

Detroit has more culture and history than the soulless sprawls of Los Angeles, Dallas, and Houston.

I don’t know about Dallas and Houston, but Los Angeles is not soulless. Does have a sprawl thing goin’ on.

259 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:12:15pm

re: #235 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Because nobody with enough income to buy an iphone subsequently loses their jobs. ///

260 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:13:04pm

re: #256 engineer cat

jealous of people living on food stamps!!

!!!!

it iz a puzzlement!!

It has never happened, ever, that someone who had a good job was suddenly laid off. All people on Food Stamps are worthless moochers who never ever worked a day in their lives!!!!111

261 efuseakay  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:15:50pm

re: #241 ProBosniaLiberal

No, he just tried to destabilize and topple a neighbor by use of a terrorist group. (FARC)

Sounds awfully familiar…

262 efuseakay  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 5:17:00pm

Oh look… American “patriot” groups reaches a record high. Wonder what brought that on!

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

263 BeenHereAwhile  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 7:52:37pm

re: #11 geoffm33

So I’ve been researching George Wallace a bit after this tweet-convo:

From Wikipedia:

Yeah, model Democrat by todays standards.

Link

Perhaps you’re right with your characterization of “middle political age” George Wallace.  But I have to disagree with your overall political assessment of George Wallace. 
IMHO George Wallace evolved into a “LBJ Democrat.”  His subsequent political alliance with Black Alabama political leaders like Johnny Ford, and repudiation of “segregation now, segregation forever” provided some redemption from his earlier political stance of white rights.
Perhaps one could say, George Wallace saw the light. 

264 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:09:50pm

re: #129 Gus

Hey. You never answered my question. Were you once a Freeper?

I answered it a million times and said yes. Jebus.

265 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:15:15pm

re: #264 Destro

I answered it a million times and said yes. Jebus.

Ah. OK. So you really are a Milosevic and Mladić supporter. Or at least you used to be. Although you did recently express some warm fuzzies for Mladić.

266 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:26:25pm

re: #265 Gus

Ah. OK. So you really are a Milosevic and Mladić supporter. Or at least you used to be. Although you did recently express some warm fuzzies for Mladić.

Why should I support a Croatia ruled by Neo-Nazis and a Bosnia ruled by a pro SS Islamist?

Back up from main stream news sources:

European neo-Nazis fight on Croatian side

Der Spiegel 39/1992, 21.09.1992

Und morgen schon tot

[Link: www.spiegel.de…]

During World War II, when Bosnia became part of the puppet-Nazi state of the Croatian Ustashe, Mr. Izetbegovic joined the Young Muslims, a group torn between siding with the German-sponsored Handzar divisions organized by the German SS or with the Yugoslav Communist partisans led by Josip Broz Tito. Mr. Izetbegovic supported the Handzars.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

I am not a Serb, but if I saw an emerging Croatia form around their Nazi symbols of WW2 and the Bosnian Muslims elect an Islamist and SS Nazi Handzar supporter I think I would go extreme in my reaction also, seeing as what the Nazi Bosnian Muslim and Croatian allies did to the Serbs in WW2.

If the USA cracked down on all sides in the Yugoslav war that I would understand. But the USA chose to side with the Croat Neo-Nazis and Bosnian extremist leadership and ignore their atrocities and play up the Serbian ones.

PS: A couple of the 9/11 hijackers were veterans of the Bosnian Jihadist units. 9/11 Hijackers Alhazmi and Almihdhar Fight in Bosnia. Which re-enforced my stance that I was right in not siding or even liking the Bosnian Muslim side much. Double over the fact that the Nazis tried to murder my entire people and used locals all over eastern Europe like the Croatians and Bosnian Muslims to do those murders I don’t naturally have an affinity for their nationalist aspirations (ditto for me hating on the Baltic states that the USA embraced after the fall of the USSR which also rehabilitated their Nazi era history).

[Link: www.historycommons.org…]

American foreign policy suckers……


PPS: I won’t bother mentioning the Kosovo Albanian mafia state with their organ transplant murders and so on.

Let me know why I should think otherwise.

267 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:43:01pm

re: #266 Destro

So three neo-Nazis in — what was it, 1993? — in Croatia equaled Croatia being ruled by neo-Nazis? Right now the current president of Croatia is Ivo Josipović who belongs to the Social Democratic Party of Croatia or

The Social Democratic Party of Croatia (Croatian: Socijaldemokratska partija Hrvatske), commonly referred to in Croatia as simply the Social Democratic Party (Socijaldemokratska partija or SDP for short), is a social democratic political party and the largest centre-left political party in Croatia. It is one of the two major contemporary political parties in Croatia, along with the centre-right Croatian Democratic Union (HDZ). It is the senior partner in the Kukuriku coalition…

268 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:47:16pm

Not seeing any neo-Nazi rule in Croatia. re: #266 Destro

Bosnia was a neo-Nazi puppet state during WWII because their other option was getting exterminated by the Nazis. Also, German was THE Nazi state during WWII. Why does Bosnia have this burden to bear while Germany is all innocent and good? Three neo-Nazis in Croatia in 1993 means something? While Germany is still ripe with neo-Nazis? Does this mean something? I’m a little confused here. Also, while we’re back on perfect and happy clean Europe. Europe is swarming with far more right wing lunatics sitting in parliaments who make our Republicans look like liberals.

269 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:49:23pm

re: #267 Gus

So three neo-Nazis in — what was it, 1993? — in Croatia equaled Croatia being ruled by neo-Nazis? Right now the current president of Croatia is Ivo Josipović who belongs to the Social Democratic Party of Croatia or

Why are you mentioning the CURRENT Croatia or Bosnia when you are asking me about posts from THE PAST?

And why should I repudiate my PAST opinion of Croatia and Bosniacs at that time ruled by those regimes based on who rules them now?

270 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:49:52pm

re: #269 Destro

Why are you mentioning the CURRENT Croatia or Bosnia when you are asking me about posts from THE PAST?

And why should I repudiate my PAST opinion of Croatia and Bosniacs at that time ruled by those regimes based on who rules them now?

Which means history proved you wrong.

271 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:50:43pm

re: #269 Destro

Shorter version. You were paranoid for nothing. Yet you still remain paranoid.

272 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:54:04pm

re: #268 Gus

Not seeing any neo-Nazi rule in Croatia.

Bosnia was a neo-Nazi puppet state during WWII because their other option was getting exterminated by the Nazis. Also, German was THE Nazi state during WWII. Why does Bosnia have this burden to bear while Germany is all innocent and good? Three neo-Nazis in Croatia in 1993 means something? While Germany is still ripe with neo-Nazis? Does this mean something? I’m a little confused here. Also, while we’re back on perfect and happy clean Europe. Europe is swarming with far more right wing lunatics sitting in parliaments who make our Republicans look like liberals.

Why are you ignoring the fact that the PRESIDENT OF BOSNIA who declared independence was an SS man? I mean he was an active supporter of the SS regime in Bosnia so maybe the Bosnian Muslims were forced to be pro Nazis as you excuse them but the president of Bosnia at that time was one of those that was a collaborationist with the Nazis. That was from the New York Times. How are you OK with? Or is that not a fact you expected from me to cite as to why I was/am hostile to the Bosnian Muslim Bosniac regime and thus you can’t counter it?

Do you deny that Bosnia’s ruler was a supporter of the SS Handzars per the claim of the New York Times obituary? Does it not bother you this SS past was not reported during the time when he was alive by the American press? I was in Europe at that time and the Bosnian Muslim president’s pro Nazi past was well known and reported. But not in the so called American press. This was news to you right now wasn’t it?

273 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:56:24pm

re: #272 Destro

Yeah. I get it. We should have just ignored the whole thing and allowed the then Serbian leadership there with the green light from the Orthodox Church there continue to genocide the Bosnian people.

274 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 9:58:26pm

Oh noz! I’ve been down dinged by some anonymous person with a goofy super hero profile pic!

275 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:02:46pm

re: #273 Gus

Yeah. I get it. We should have just ignored the whole thing and allowed the then Serbian leadership there with the green light from the Orthodox Church there continue to genocide the Bosnian people.

Who is not answering the question now?

Did you know that the Bosniac regime that declared independence from Yugoslavia was an SS Handzar cadre? If you were a survivor of the Holocaust like the Serbs and Jews were, how would you react to that fact?

I think the Serbs reacted as they reacted because they feared a genocide on them as was done to them by the Croatian Catholic nationalists and Bosnian Muslims. There were Serbian people alive in the 1990s in Yugoslavia who lived through it. Why would they not be paranoid?

276 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:04:24pm
277 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:05:22pm

re: #276 Destro

Sounds like your struggling to respond to the fact that Izebegovic, the leader of the Bosnian Muslim regime was a supporter of the SS.

OK. Maybe you’re right. Who knows. I guess it’s OK now to openly support Milosevic at LGF.

278 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:07:14pm
279 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:07:26pm
280 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:07:59pm
281 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:10:55pm

re: #280 Gus

I am more of a Gamera fan myself.

I answered your questions. Did you know the Bosnian president was a pro SS cadre?

Plus 1 on my old Freeper links.

282 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:35:34pm
283 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:37:07pm

Bosnian Genocide

The term Bosnian Genocide refers to either genocide at Srebrenica and Žepa[4] committed by Bosnian Serb forces in 1995 or the ethnic cleansing campaign that took place throughout areas controlled by the Army of the Republika Srpska during the 1992–1995 Bosnian War.[5]

The events in Srebrenica in 1995 included the killing of more than 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys, as well as the mass expulsion of another 25,000–30,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians, in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, committed by units of the Army of the Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of General Ratko Mladić.[6][7]

The ethnic cleansing campaign that took place throughout areas controlled by the VRS targeted Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats. The ethnic cleansing campaign included unlawful confinement, murder, rape, sexual assault, torture, beating, robbery and inhumane treatment of civilians; the targeting of political leaders, intellectuals and professionals; the unlawful deportation and transfer of civilians; the unlawful shelling of civilians; the unlawful appropriation and plunder of real and personal property; the destruction of homes and businesses; and the destruction of places of worship.[8]

In the 1990s, several authorities, along with a considerable number of legal scholars, asserted that ethnic cleansing as carried out by elements of the Bosnian Serb army was genocide.[9] These included a resolution by the United Nations General Assembly and three convictions for genocide in German courts, (the convictions were based upon a wider interpretation of genocide than that used by international courts).[10] In 2005, the United States Congress passed a resolution declaring that “the Serbian policies of aggression and ethnic cleansing meet the terms defining genocide”.[11]

However, in line with a majority of legal scholars, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) have ruled that, in order for actions to be deemed genocide, there must be physical or biological destruction of a protected group and a specific intent to commit such destruction. To date, only the Srebrenica massacre has been found to be a genocide by the ICTY, a finding upheld by the ICJ…

284 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:38:39pm
285 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:44:31pm

During the aggression against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina which lasted from early 1992 to the end of 1995, 27,734 people were listed as missing, most of them victims of genocide and other crimes against humanity and violations of international humanitarian law. More than 85% of these missing persons were Bosniaks.

286 Gus  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 10:50:41pm

Wassup peeps!

287 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 11:30:32pm
288 Destro  Tue, Mar 5, 2013 11:37:58pm

re: #285 Gus

During the aggression against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina which lasted from early 1992 to the end of 1995, 27,734 people were listed as missing, most of them victims of genocide and other crimes against humanity and violations of international humanitarian law. More than 85% of these missing persons were Bosniaks.

Wow. 27,734 casualties on all the sides in Bosnia? Not in the league of kill figures in Iraq since the American invasion but pretty impressive.

[Link: www.iraqbodycount.org…]

No good happens when a country elects a former SS cadre as president.

289 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:35:44am

re: #275 Destro

Claiming the group that took over was an “SS cadre” is such a stretch it’s basically a lie.

290 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 4:52:34am

re: #276 Destro

Sounds like your struggling to respond to the fact that Izebegovic, the leader of the Bosnian Muslim regime was a supporter of the SS (a fact it seems you were ignorant about till now).

It’s kind of weird that you’d support Milosevic, who was in engaging in actions that were very much SS-like— genocide, rape, torture— and use as an excuse that his opponent, during WWII, supported an SS-linked group.

Can you explain the logic of that?

291 Interesting Times  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 5:57:33am

re: #290 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s kind of weird that you’d support Milosevic, who was in engaging in actions that were very much SS-like— genocide, rape, torture— and use as an excuse that his opponent, during WWII, supported an SS-linked group.

Also ridiculously hypocritical, since, if groups who were once a victim of Nazis get carte blanche to defend themselves as they see fit, all the excuses he makes for Milosevic should apply to Israel’s Netanyahu government several times over.

And yet, he supports the genocidal Milosevic while condemning Israel, which hasn’t done anything remotely approaching (in the same galaxy even) as the Serbian war crimes.

Perhaps if Israel’s support from America magically ceased, they’d get the same carte blanche he currently extends to Milosevic 9_9

292 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 8:08:29am

re: #289 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Claiming the group that took over was an “SS cadre” is such a stretch it’s basically a lie.

I did not say the “group” that took over Bosnia. I said their president was a former SS supporter - he may have supported the SS for his own nationalist local reasons but he chose to support the SS and on top of that he was an anti-democracy and anti-secularist Islamist -even if we are told by Bosniac apologists the Bosnian Muslims were mostly not (and most Germans didn’t vote for Hitler either). Clearly, the majority of the Bosniac voters had no problem with his SS legacy. The Serbs did. I sympathize with the Serbs for them feeling as they did if Bosnia was to be ruled by such a man with such a legacy.

Are you saying victims of the Nazis like the Serbs were should have ignored that this was who would be in charge of them in Bosnia? The Croatian nationals also re-emerged with Nazi era nationalist symbols and rhetoric. After what the Serbs suffered at Croatian nationalist hands during WW2 (not that long ago in the 1990s) how would you have expected the Serbs to react?

293 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 8:14:47am

re: #291 Interesting Times

Also ridiculously hypocritical, since, if groups who were once a victim of Nazis get carte blanche to defend themselves as they see fit, all the excuses he makes for Milosevic should apply to Israel’s Netanyahu government several times over.

And yet, he supports the genocidal Milosevic while condemning Israel, which hasn’t done anything remotely approaching (in the same galaxy even) as the Serbian war crimes.

Perhaps if Israel’s support from America magically ceased, they’d get the same carte blanche he currently extends to Milosevic 9_9

Why do you think I don’t support Israel? Because I don’t agree with the settlement expansions? PS: Israel has declined to recognize the independence of Kosovo so I guess they are “pro-Milosevic” also.

Secondly, I did not say Serbs had a right to go ape shit on the Bosniacs and Croatians because of the past fact that the Bosniacs and Croatians were Nazi allies. I said I understand why the Serbs reacted as they did when they say Croatians rehabilitate WW2 Nazi era flags and nationalism and when a former SS supporting Islamist claimed the presidency of Bosnia.

I am still waiting for any of you to deny the leader of the Bosniacs was an SS cadre. And why you are OK with that fact and think the Serbs should have been OK with that fact also?

294 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 8:16:30am

re: #292 Destro

I sympathize with the Serbs for them feeling as they did if Bosnia was to be ruled by such a man with such a legacy.

“Feeling as they did”, meaning “We need to genocide and rape”?

Are you saying victims of the Nazis like the Serbs were should have ignored that this was who would be in charge of them in Bosnia?

I’m saying that it has fuck-all to do with committing genocide and rape.

The Croatian nationals also re-emerged with Nazi era nationalist symbols and rhetoric. After what the Serbs suffered at Croatian nationalist hands during WW2 (not that long ago in the 1990s) how would you have expected the Serbs to react?

Not with genocide and rape. You?

295 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 8:17:52am

re: #293 Destro

He supported a pro-SS group back during the WWII era. I have no idea why you think that should define the rest of his life. Are you alleging that he actually committed atrocities at that time?

296 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 8:46:00am

re: #295 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

He supported a pro-SS group back during the WWII era. I have no idea why you think that should define the rest of his life. Are you alleging that he actually committed atrocities at that time?

He was in the SS and never renounced the group he was in!

And I am supposed to let that slide after what the Nazis did to my family, people and the Serbians (I am not a Serb) are supposed to forget what the SS collaborators did to then in WW2?

[Link: nationalinterest.org…]

In 1970, Izetbegovic published a book entitled the Islamic Declaration, which led to his imprisonment under Tito on the charge of conspiring to create an Islamic state. This-combined with his wartime record (he was an active member of the S.S.’s Handzar Division, a unit composed of Bosnian jihadists whose primary targets were Bosnia’s Jews and Serbs) and his actions before and during the Bosnian civil war (in particular his active acquiescence in the incorporation of mujahedeen units into the army of which he was commander-in-chief, units suspected of perpetrating some of the worst atrocities of an atrocious war)…

What part of his post SS life made him rehabilitated? This was not the case of say the past Pope’s German Hitler Youth service where he was drafted/forced. That scumbag Izebegovic actively joined up with the fucking SS and I am supposed to let that slide (or the Serbs - victims of the Nazis along with the Jews and Gypsies should have let it slide that they were now going to be a minority in a nation led by a former SS cadre who openly declared his personal view that secular multi-confessional democracy was wrong?) Hey everyone, it’s OK if you were in the SS as long as you were not a direct camp guard, etc. All is cool! Fuck that.

The old Chris Rock line about OJ Simpson killing his ex-wife applies to my support of the Serbs over the Bosniac regime of Izebegovic and the Croatian neo-nazi (and holocaust denying) nationalist regime of Tudjman’s “I don’t condone what they did…but I understand…”

297 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:07:56am

re: #296 Destro

The old Chris Rock line about OJ Simpson killing his ex-wife applies to my support of the Serbs over the Bosniac regime of Izebegovic and the Croatian neo-nazi (and holocaust denying) nationalist regime of Tudjman’s “I don’t condone what they did…but I understand…”

Well, it’s nice to see you backtracking, but you’re veering wildly off course. Tudjman was a communist partisan in WWII. He definitely had civil rights abuses, but he wasn’t in any way a neo-Nazi. Can you explain why you’re calling him a neo-Nazi? I mean, with some coherent explanation, not a dramatic appeal?

298 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:12:50am

re: #296 Destro

You keep saying he joined the SS. The most I can find is that he joined a group, the Young Muslims, who were torn between deciding to support Tito or the SS Handradar. They decided to support the latter. I don’t see anything about him actually joining the Waffen SS. Do you?

299 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:22:05am

re: #297 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Well, it’s nice to see you backtracking, but you’re veering wildly off course. Tudjman was a communist partisan in WWII. He definitely had civil rights abuses, but he wasn’t in any way a neo-Nazi. Can you explain why you’re calling him a neo-Nazi? I mean, with some coherent explanation, not a dramatic appeal?

Tudjman, rehabilitated the the Croatian nationalist Nazi past - You can find plenty of Google links where they talk about this. Even if Tudjman was not a Nazi per say - after what the Croatian Nazi collaborationist stated did to the Serbs why do you find it weird the Serbs would think and react as if these Croatians would be different from the past Croatians?

PS: In the emailed response you were stating Izebegovic was not in the SS but since have edited that out in your response at #297.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

During World War II, when Bosnia became part of the puppet-Nazi state of the Croatian Ustashe, Mr. Izetbegovic joined the Young Muslims, a group torn between siding with the German-sponsored Handzar divisions organized by the German SS or with the Yugoslav Communist partisans led by Josip Broz Tito. Mr. Izetbegovic supported the Handzars.

and

[Link: nationalinterest.org…]

In 1970, Izetbegovic published a book entitled the Islamic Declaration, which led to his imprisonment under Tito on the charge of conspiring to create an Islamic state. This-combined with his wartime record (he was an active member of the S.S.’s Handzar Division, a unit composed of Bosnian jihadists whose primary targets were Bosnia’s Jews and Serbs) and his actions before and during the Bosnian civil war (in particular his active acquiescence in the incorporation of mujahedeen units into the army of which he was commander-in-chief, units suspected of perpetrating some of the worst atrocities of an atrocious war)…

PS: Regarding the charge that Serbs were the only bad guys:

[Link: nationalinterest.org…]

There is plenty of moral and criminal guilt to go around for the unnecessary civil war in both Croatia and Bosnia. Here we enter especially murky ground. What remains clear is that war criminals should not go unpunished. In all likelihood, the Bosnian Serbs committed more atrocities than their Bosnian Muslim or Croat enemies, because they kept winning battle after battle. However, this takes nothing away from Izetbegovic’s guilt-nor from that of Franjo Tudjman, Croatia’s first president who also died peacefully without being indicted for his role in, among many other acts, the ethnic cleansing of 350,000 Serbs from Croatia in a single weekend in the summer of 1995. But with both Tudjman and now Izetbegovic gone and with the failure of the ICTY to indict them while they were alive, despite the evidence, it becomes that much easier to whitewash those terrible events in the Balkans and to maintain the absurd position that all sides in the Balkans have legitimate interests save the Serbs. Some of the guiltiest have taken their deeds to their graves. One can only hope that their deaths will result in a permanent repudiation of their policies.

Last but not least, The Red Army raped every women in the parts of Nazi Germany they occupied it seems. That does not mean I support the Nazis just because that happened over the Russians. Maybe the Bosniacs should not have elected an SS supporting Islamist as their president if they did not want the war to come to them by the former victims of SS Croatian Nationalists and Islamists.

300 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:26:14am

re: #298 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

You keep saying he joined the SS. The most I can find is that he joined a group, the Young Muslims, who were torn between deciding to support Tito or the SS Handradar. They decided to support the latter. I don’t see anything about him actually joining the Waffen SS. Do you?

[Link: nationalinterest.org…]

“he [Izetbegovic] was an active member of the S.S.’s Handzar Division”

301 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:26:22am

re: #299 Destro

Tudjman, rehabilitated the the Croatian nationalist Nazi past - You can find plenty of Google links where they talk about this. Even if Tudjman was not a Nazi per say - after what the Croatian Nazi collaborationist stated did to the Serbs why do you find it weird the Serbs would think and react as if these Croatians would be different from the past Croatians?

Er, yes, I find racists weird. Especially post WWII racists. And I’m not going to take your word for their being substantial evidence, Destro, you have zero credibility. Go ahead and show me something from some legitimate sources and I’ll be happy to look at them.

PS: In the emailed response you were stating Izebegovic was not in the SS but since have edited that out in your response at #297.

Yeah, and replaced with a question. I don’t think he was in the SS.

And nobody is saying the Serbs were the only bad guys. Why do you need to lie so much to make your arguments? It makes you look nutty.

302 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:26:59am

re: #300 Destro


And his source for this is what? That’s the claim of some dude.

303 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:28:08am

re: #301 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Er, yes, I find racists weird. Especially post WWII racists. And I’m not going to take your word for their being substantial evidence, Destro, you have zero credibility. Go ahead and show me something from some legitimate sources and I’ll be happy to look at them.

Yeah, and replaced with a question. I don’t think he was in the SS.

And nobody is saying the Serbs were the only bad guys. Why do you need to lie so much to make your arguments? It makes you look nutty.

All you have to do is scroll up and find the article where Neo-Nazis were joing the Croatians during the war. #266. From Speigel along with video.

304 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:28:17am

Maybe you’d enjoy another opinion article by that dude you’re quoting as an authority, Destro.


Ronald Reagan: Liberator of Nations

305 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:29:49am

re: #303 Destro

All you have to do is scroll up and find the article where Neo-Nazis were joing the Croatians during the war. #266. From Speigel along with video.

During which war? Why not just relink this, if you think it’s relevant? A lot of your posts have been deleted, so it might be in one of those.

306 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:30:07am

re: #301 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

And nobody is saying the Serbs were the only bad guys. Why do you need to lie so much to make your arguments? It makes you look nutty.

Says the asshole who is trying to say that being in the SS in some form or another (be it directly or an SS supporting German created annex group) is somehow no big deal. I guess you have to actually kill a Jew or Gypsy in the SS to have that association mark you off as a bad guy,

307 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:33:57am

re: #305 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

During which war? Why not just relink this, if you think it’s relevant? A lot of your posts have been deleted, so it might be in one of those.

Scroll up to #266 on this thread link is there. The Croatian war of independence, naturally.

also:

[Link: community.seattletimes.nwsource.com…]

Tuesday, March 12, 1991

Croatia’s New Nationalism — Symbols Of Pride Are Rekindling Terror For Ethnic Serbs


JOSEVICA, Yugoslavia - Bosiljka Juzbasic’s voice quivers as she recalls when she and other Serbs living in Croatia began to fear that the new government of the republic was plotting to kill them.

“It was when they put up those flags and shields at the police station,” says the bent-backed peasant, who looks 70 but is 52. “I don’t remember much of the war. I was too young. But I remember my mother carrying me, running with me away from that same shield.”

Croatia’s shield was used as a national symbol only once before: during World War II, when the fascist puppet regime of the Ustase systematically executed Serbs, Jews and Gypsies.

Now, the red-and-white checkerboard shield is back.

Since the republic’s non-Communist government came to power in May, it has embarked on a quest to form an independent Croatia, and the shield is fluttering on new Croatian flags outside police stations and government offices throughout the republic. Enameled checkerboard pins have replaced the red star on the caps and badges of police and the territorial militia.

While the unsubstantiated reports of an impending genocide might be disregarded by those who are educated and worldly, they have struck genuine terror in the hearts of Serbs in remote outposts like Josevica.

Flying of the checkerboard colors is seen here as proof that a civil war is about to begin. Hundreds of thousands of Serbs and Croats own guns, threatening an uncontrollable bloodletting if fratricidal fighting ever gets started.

“Why have they come here with their flags and machine guns, if not to kill us?” asks Milja, a saleswoman at the only store in this village of 350 Serbs and two Croatian women who married into the community. “All you have to do is turn on the television to see that Tudjman hates Serbs so much that he can’t even say their names.” The vendor did not give her full name out of fear of retaliation.


“The tensions started in September, with the police station incident,” says Petrinja’s mayor, Stanislava Gregurincic-Zilic, a Croat who is married to a Serb from Josevica.

The 55-year-old former Communist blames supporters of Tudjman’s Croatian Democratic Union for waving nationalist symbols and stirring up the current fever of hostility.

“The Serbs are irritated by these displays of flags and shields. They don’t accept them because they were the symbols of the Ustase,” she says.

Hey Serbs, don’t freak out we are using the same Nazi era symbols our grandparents used to kill yours in death camps. Oh, and by the way, blacks don’t freak out about that burning cross or the confederate flag - it does not mean what it used to mean. And the swastika nowadays in Germany? Has to do with Hindu good luck - honest.

Right?

308 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:37:02am

re: #306 Destro

Says the asshole who is trying to say that being in the SS in some form or another (be it directly or an SS supporting German created annex group) is somehow no big deal. I guess you have to actually kill a Jew or Gypsy in the SS to have that association mark you off as a bad guy,

It doesn’t even say he was in the SS annex group, it says he joined a group of partisans who were undecided about choosing to support Tito and the SS-sponsored group. Partisanship in the eastern border between the Soviets and the Nazis was chaotic as fuck— many Finns, too, joined Nazi-associated groups in fighting against the Soviets. That alone, in the context of a partisan, isn’t sufficient for me to say that it marks a guy as specially evil unless he was with a group that participated in atrocities. It’s certainly not good, but neither would have been supporting Tito. I can’t really think of a good choice except trying to remain independent. Since he was a communist himself, it seems unlikely that the alliance was because he was ideologically committed to Nazism.

309 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:42:27am

re: #307 Destro

Scroll up to #266 on this thread link is there. The Croatian war of independence, naturally.

Okay. Can’t really read the Spiegel article, but it appears to be saying that there were neo-Nazis joined in the fight in Croatia. I’m not sure what the takeaway from that is about your support of Milosevic. Are you saying these were a significant proportion of Croat forces, or what?

If your point was that the Croats did fucked up shit too, then I’d have your back. But weirdly, your point was that you support a genocidal fuckhead, and your rationale is that Nazis— genocidal fuckheads— are bad.

It’s getting to the point where you seem Killgore-ish in how self-defeating your arguments are.

310 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:42:54am

Do you think Ronald Reagan was a liberator of nations, Destro?

311 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:45:25am

re: #310 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Do you think Ronald Reagan was a liberator of nations, Destro?

No. And Ronald Reagan was a rapist.

[Link: www.slate.com…]

Gipper the Ripper?

Posted Friday, March 5, 1999, at 9:53 AM


“I opened the door,” Walters told the magazine. “Then it was the battle of the couch. I was fighting him. I didn’t want him to make love to me. He’s a very big man, and he just had his way. Date rape? No, God, no, that’s [Kelley’s] phrase. I didn’t have a chance to have a date with him.”

312 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 9:46:28am

re: #311 Destro

So why are you quoting as an authority a guy who thought Ronald Reagan was a liberator of nations? Does that sound like a credible source to you?


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First-Ever Sex Discrimination Legal Network Is Ready to Defend Women in Trump’s America Shortly after the election, the attorneys and advocates who work at the National Women’s Law Center (NWLC) started having a conversation. It seemed that the incoming Trump administration was likely to move backward on enforcing civil rights, loosening regulations, ...
Birth Control Works
5 days, 3 hours ago
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Meet Rhiannon Giddens, Newly Minted MacArthur ‘Genius’ As a solo artist — and, before that, as a member of the Carolina Chocolate Drops — singer-songwriter Rhiannon Giddens has made a career out of revitalizing and invigorating decades' worth of music reflecting the African-American experience. That's meant ...
Thanos
1 week, 1 day ago
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Lies About Black America Are ‘Central’ to Gun Ownership: A Reporter on What We Get Wrong About Gun Violence Lies that the GOP and Donald Trump promote all day long. “If you look at the neighborhoods where [gun violence] is most clustered,” Beckett said, it’s located in areas with high levels of poverty, low levels of education, and ...
Unshaken Defiance
1 week, 2 days ago
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St. Vincent Performs ‘Los Ageless’ One of Stephen's very favorite singer-songwriters collaborates with three pairs of boots to perform a song off her new album "Masseduction". Subscribe To "The Late Show" Channel HERE: bit.lyFor more content from "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert", click ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer (Official) Watch the new trailer for Star Wars: The Last Jedi and see it in theaters December 15. Get your tickets now: fandango.com Visit Star Wars at starwars.comSubscribe to Star Wars on YouTube at youtube.comLike Star Wars on Facebook at ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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Brazil Branches of US-Based Church Target of Numerous Probes Church Based human trafficking and forced labor -- it's just religious freedom in action.../// When workers made a mistake, such as cutting a frame too short, she says they were screamed at and sometimes even hit to expunge the ...
Thanos
1 week, 2 days ago
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