ThinkProgress: Why Democrats Shouldn’t Eulogize Hugo Chavez

The legacy of an autocrat
World • Views: 28,460

An interesting post at ThinkProgress by Zack Beauchamp: Why Democrats Shouldn’t Eulogize Hugo Chavez.

While even Chavez’s critics admit that he did attempt to address the plight of Venezuela’s poorest, the decline in economic inequality in Venezuela reflected a broader egalitarian trend in Latin America, and can’t be fully credited to Chavez’s policies. However, Chavez’ policies harmed Venezuela’s poorest in other ways: the value of the Venezuelan currency dropped while prices soared, making it harder for people to buy basic necessities, and crime skyrocketed.

Moreover, Chavez hurt the vulnerable in Venezuela in other ways. Chavez’s state-run media hounded Venezuela’s small, beleaguered Jewish population — he himself once said “Don’t let yourselves be poisoned by those wandering Jews.” A study released by the Kantor Center at Tel Aviv University found that Chavez’s rule “witnessed a rise in antisemitic manifestations, including vandalism, media attacks, caricatures, and physical attacks on Venezuelan Jewish institutions.” Indeed, roughly half of Venezuelan Jews fled the country because of “the social and economic chaos that the president has unleashed and from the uncomfortable feeling that they were being specifically targeted by the regime.”

Chavez also attacked Venezuela’s democratic political system. Human Rights Watch reported in 2012 that “the accumulation of power in the executive and the erosion of human rights protections have allowed the Chávez government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute critics and perceived opponents in a wide range of cases involving the judiciary, the media, and civil society.” Contra Serrano’s implication that Chavez’s elections were generally certified as “free and fair by international monitors,” Chavez had not invited international election monitors to observe Venezuelan elections since 2006 (though a delegation from the Carter Center did conduct a limited audit of the 2012 election).

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397 comments
1 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:54:11am

So basically Chavez did just about everything Obama is constantly ACCUSED of doing by the right wingers?

2 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:54:14am

He’s dead Jim.

3 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:55:19am

Chavez was a thug and everyone is better off with him gone.

4 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:55:47am

I absolutely agree. Chavez originally tried to take power in a military coup. Foiled in that, when elected his government became more and more oppressive over time, especially in shutting down and targeting press freedoms and using the judiciary to target his enemies.

In addition, his personal anti-American attitudes colored his international policy, so that he cultivated relationships with anyone, so long as they were anti-American.

5 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:56:18am

Ahmadinejad: Hugo Chavez Will Come Again With Jesus And The Hidden Imam

And Cthulhu… and Godzilla… and the Easter Bunny

6 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:56:27am

This is good. Thanks. It was really frustrating dealing with a friend using the same defenses I’ve seen used for Pinochet but with Chavez. The guy was a dictator

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:57:39am

I see that Charles is responding in fear to the Stalker Site, which accused him of not taking a stand against those posters here who praised Chavez.

/

8 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:59:35am

re: #7 Sol Berdinowitz

Nope. I could not possibly care less.

9 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:59:37am

re: #3 Kragar (Antichrist )

Chavez was a thug and everyone is better off with him gone.

Especially the people of Venezuela.

10 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:00:10am

The million AK 47 purchase from Russia, and AK 47 plant sure did not help the poor, but it ensured his tenure.

11 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:00:32am

Wonder who the CIA is planning to install. /

12 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:00:45am

Heh.

13 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:00:45am

re: #3 Kragar (Antichrist )

Chavez was a thug and everyone is better off with him gone.

First part seems true enough. Jury is still out on the conclusion.

14 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:01:08am

[Link: www.hrw.org…]
I think this is a worthy read on this subject.

15 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:03:53am

Hugo was a thug.

I just get tired of the knee-jerk reaction to by the Whackos to Godwin anything that isn’t a clone of the US.

16 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:06:51am

re: #3 Kragar (Antichrist )

Chavez was a thug and everyone is better off with him gone.

A+ post, would quote and upding again.

17 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:07:03am

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. While his motives may have been good (ie helping the poor) he ended up fucking things up even more in many cases. I won’t damn what he did for the poor in Venezuela but I surely won’t praise what he did vis-a-vis human rights, the press and other democratic ideals.

18 Ming  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:07:16am

I don’t know much about Chavez, but I just did a quick Google and Chavez apparently was very enthusiastic in praising Iran’s Ahmadinejad.

19 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:08:22am

So, who takes over now? Does he have Vice-Tyrant?

20 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:08:24am

re: #18 Ming

I don’t know much about Chavez, but I just did a quick Google and Chavez apparently was very enthusiastic in praising Iran’s Ahmadinejad.

It’s funny. People who I’ve seen praise him criticize the US for engaging in “enemy of my enemy is my friend” but that’s exactly what the Chavez-Ahmadinejad relationship was.

21 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:08:42am

Glenn Beck falls to his knees to ‘resuscitate’ flag wounded by gun control

During his nightly webcast, Beck lamented that “collectivism” had resulted in gun control proposals in states like Colorado, where Democrats have bills to ban concealed carry on college campuses, ban high-capacity magazines and implement universal background checks.

“[C]ollective government has led to disaster every time,” he explained. “But statistics only show 6 million Jews in Germany, statistics only show about 30 million in Russia, statistics only show about 80 million in China. So, it’s no big deal. Statistics, you know. It probably won’t be you.”

At that point, Beck fell to his knees and placed his hands on an American flag, appearing to give it medical treatment.

“America is hemorrhaging,” Beck warned. “And we’re down and we’re on the ground. And what do you do? Every time you push something onto the wound to stop the bleeding! You don’t even have tourniquet! You just push something down on the wound!”

“If you’ve seen this in a movie, where there’s a body bleeding to death, what do they do? They’re like gurgling. That’s what America’s doing right now! She’s down on the ground, she gurgling, we’ve got our hand on the wound — some of us!”

“Stay with me,” Beck told the flag. “Stay with me, talk to me, don’t close your eyes, don’t go to sleep, wake up! Wake up! Stay with me!”

22 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:08:49am

re: #19 FemNaziBitch

So, who takes over now? Does he have Vice-Tyrant?

He’s got a vice president. That guy is the interim leader. Not sure what happens from there.

23 AlexRogan  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:09:32am
24 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:09:57am

re: #21 Kragar (Antichrist )

Glenn Beck falls to his knees to ‘resuscitate’ flag wounded by gun control

A man who tries to give medical treatment to an inanimate object really shouldn’t be mocking people as much as this one does.

25 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:09:59am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

He’s got a vice president. That guy is the interim leader. Not sure what happens from there.

from what I’ve heard the VP takes over until the next election. Both the Chavez side and the Opposition agreed to it.

26 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:10:03am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

He’s got a vice president. That guy is the interim leader. Not sure what happens from there.

They’re already planning on new elections.

27 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:10:11am

Wingnut reaction:

28 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:10:16am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

He’s got a vice president. That guy is the interim leader. Not sure what happens from there.

The dictatorship will continue until morale improves.

29 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:10:28am

re: #26 Kragar (Antichrist )

They’re already planning on new elections.

Ah. Gotcha.

30 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:11:12am

re: #5 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ahmadinejad: Hugo Chavez Will Come Again With Jesus And The Hidden Imam

And Cthulhu… and Godzilla… and the Easter Bunny

Fool. Everyone knows that the Easter Bunny isn’t real. /

31 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:11:20am

I really do wish the people “praising” Chavez would also add in the big huge BUT that needs to be added when discussing what he did.

32 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:12:04am

Wingnuts luvs ‘em some Rand Paul. Ben Carson is so last month.

33 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:12:04am

re: #30 lawhawk

Fool. Everyone knows that the Easter Bunny isn’t real. /

Next, you’ll tell me the Arbor Day Aardvark doesn’t exist either.

34 AlexRogan  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:12:23am

re: #24 HappyWarrior

A man who tries to give medical treatment to an inanimate object really shouldn’t be mocking people as much as this one does.

Not to mention that he mistreated the flag-as-prop by laying it on the ground (see the US Flag Code).

35 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:12:26am

re: #21 Kragar (Antichrist )

He he. Masturbation for pseudo patriots.

36 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:12:29am

OT, but WOWSER!

37 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:12:46am

oodles? Who uses that word other than gay stereotypes on TV?

38 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:13:09am

re: #31 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I really do wish the people “praising” Chavez would also add in the big huge BUT that needs to be added when discussing what he did.

How dare you advocate those liberal commie concepts like context and nuance! You’ll take your talking points, and like ‘em!

39 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:13:20am
40 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:13:44am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

Actually, the Venezuelan constitution requires that the head of the National Assembly assume the temporary presidency until elections are called. The Chavezistas are picking up where Chavez did with their regard for the rule of law.

Here’s NBC Latino’s Kristina Puga with a refresher for those unfamiliar with the Venezuelan constitution:

According to Venezuela’s constitution, if the president relinquishes power because of his physical inability to perform his duties, this is considered an “absolute absence,” which a medical committee has to certify. However, because the president has died, the constitution mandates that new elections take place within 30 days. Venezuela’s constitution specifies that the speaker of the National Assembly, currently Diosdado Cabello, should assume the interim presidency if a president can’t be sworn in.

And yet, here’s the Associated Press on what actually happened:

Even in death, Hugo Chavez’s orders are being followed. The man he anointed to succeed him, Vice President Nicolas Maduro, will continue to run Venezuela as interim president and be the governing socialists’ candidate in an election to be called within 30 days. Foreign Minister Elias Jaua confirmed that Tuesday, just hours after Maduro, tears running down his face, announced the death of Chavez, the larger-than-life former paratroop officer who had presided over Venezuela as virtually a one-man show for more than 14 years.

41 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:14:02am

re: #40 lawhawk

Actually, the Venezuelan constitution requires that the head of the National Assembly assume the temporary presidency until elections are called. The Chavezistas are picking up where Chavez did with their regard for the rule of law. Here’s NBC Latino’s Kristina Puga with a refresher for those unfamiliar with the Venezuelan constitution:

And yet, here’s the Associated Press on what actually happened:

Thanks as always.

42 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:14:06am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

Nope. I could not possibly care less.

In any case. from the Stalker Site:

“Although Charles has yet to…opine, the silence implies complicit agreement with his little green sycophants (at least according to Johnson’s own Rules For Blogging).”

Now for my 2 centavos:

Chavez would not have stayed in power without our demand for his nation’s resources. We create these figures, we have to learn to live with them or do without their oil.

43 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:14:23am

re: #39 Lidane

They promised to stop being utter and complete dicks?

44 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:15:00am

re: #37 Vicious Babushka

oodles? Who uses that word other than gay stereotypes on TV?

Me.

45 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:15:41am

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

I don’t get the association between Chavez being in power and oil. Could you explain?

46 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:15:52am

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

In any case. from the Stalker Site:

“Although Charles has yet to…opine, the silence implies complicit agreement with his little green sycophants (at least according to Johnson’s own Rules For Blogging).”

Now for my 2 centavos:

Chavez would not have stayed in power without our demand for his nation’s resources. We create these figures, we have to learn to live with them or do without their oil.

The Stalker’s blog utter failure to address the serial goat molestation conducted by its founders means the rank and file there condone and encourage it.
/

47 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:15:53am

re: #19 FemNaziBitch

So, who takes over now? Does he have Vice-Tyrant?

Elections are slated for the near future. But yes, this guy is in control for now.

48 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:15:54am

re: #39 Lidane

Clearing their own hurdles. Such heroes.

49 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:16:31am

re: #47 Gus

Elections are slated for the near future. But yes, this guy is in control for now.

Yeah, I heard he claimed that the West poisoned Chavez with the cancer that killed him. Nutty buddy.

50 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:16:32am

re: #37 Vicious Babushka

oodles? Who uses that word other than gay stereotypes on TV?

Image: oodles_of_noodles.jpg

That’s where I mainly know the word from.

51 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:16:50am

re: #43 Kragar (Antichrist )

They promised to stop being utter and complete dicks?

LOL no. They just managed to muzzle the fucktards in the wingnut base long enough to pass legislation funding the government past March 27th.

52 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:17:27am

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

I haven’t looked at that site in over a year. Their opinion means nothing to me. The “person” that created that site has been stalking Charles for 5 years now. Think about that. 5 years. 1,825 days.

53 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:18:38am

re: #52 Gus

I see wall collages strewn with multicolored yarn.

54 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:18:49am

re: #45 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I don’t get the association between Chavez being in power and oil. Could you explain?

Chavez was able to help the poor in his country and thus win popular support thanks to nationalizing the oil industry and using the profits from oil to help with paying for running water, schools etc. in the poor areas of Venezuela.

If you think income inequality was bad here it was 10 times worse there. Chavez tried to level that playing field but when oil prices went down so did his popularity since the funds for the projects he put in place were unfinished.

55 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:19:35am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

I see wall collages strewn with multicolored yarn.

Yeah. He cuts out different letters from magazines and creates messages that he sends to Charles.

56 makeitstop  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:19:44am

re: #21 Kragar (Antichrist )

Glenn Beck falls to his knees to ‘resuscitate’ flag wounded by gun control

He’s back on the drugs, isn’t he?

57 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:20:25am

re: #56 makeitstop

He’s back on the drugs, isn’t he?

More likely, off his Rx.

58 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:20:32am

re: #56 makeitstop

He’s back on the drugs, isn’t he?

That’s the only explanation I can think of. I think he’s been on the drugs for a while though. I don’t think he’s ever been truly clean.

59 Jolo5309  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:20:43am

re: #37 Vicious Babushka

oodles? Who uses that word other than gay stereotypes on TV?

Me

60 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:20:45am

Should be interesting to see the results of these upcoming elections. We have the right president to deal with the results this time, at least. That’s something the radicals either downplay or ignore.

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:21:09am

re: #52 Gus

I haven’t looked at that site in over a year. Their opinion means nothing to me. The “person” that created that site has been stalking Charles for 5 years now. Think about that. 5 years. 1,825 days.

I stop by once in a while for a good laugh. Seriously life-less obsessed jerks…

62 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:21:56am

re: #54 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Chavez was able to help the poor in his country and thus win popular support thanks to nationalizing the oil industry and using the profits from oil to help with paying for running water, schools etc. in the poor areas of Venezuela.

If you think income inequality was bad here it was 10 times worse there. Chavez tried to level that playing field but when oil prices went down so did his popularity since the funds for the projects he put in place were unfinished.

Oh, I see. To me, Chavez would have used whatever was available— the oil was just a tool. He tried a military coup first. Given that he did this without regard to long-term sustainability, I think it shows he would have just tried whatever he could. Maybe it wouldn’t have worked, but it’s not like ‘bribe them with oil revenue’ is the only possible route for a populist.

63 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:22:05am

I can picture Beck dressed as Hawkeye.

“STAY ALIVE! No matter what occurs, I WILL FIND YOU!”

64 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:22:30am

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“Stay with me,” Beck told the flag. “Stay with me, talk to me, don’t close your eyes, don’t go to sleep, wake up! Wake up! Stay with me!”

That’s pretty much what John McCain’s email to me today said.

Simply put, our way of life - the very freedoms, liberty and security - that so many generations of Americans worked to build and fought to protect could all be destroyed if Barack Obama and the Democrats have their way with our government.

Oh yeah, this too:

P.S. Your opinion on the issues facing our nation is important, and I would like to hear from you today. Please follow this link to complete the survey and afterwards make a contribution of $25, $35, $50 or more to Country First. Thanks -John.

I’ll be using this:

| Unsubscribe

65 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:22:51am

re: #52 Gus

I blocked all those people from Twitter and blocked that site on my browser.

Don’t know what they say. Can’t be bothered to give a shit.

66 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:23:34am

re: #61 Sol Berdinowitz

I stop by once in a while for a good laugh. Seriously life-less obsessed jerks…

I troll them every few months. They still haven’t picked up who I really am.

Morans.

67 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:23:49am

re: #64 wrenchwench

That’s pretty much what John McCain’s email to me today said.

Oh yeah, this too:

I’ll be using this:

What a hysterical little shit McCain’s become.

68 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:24:10am

re: #64 wrenchwench

Ha ha yeah he wants to “hear” you…..Dig in your wallet.

69 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:24:39am

re: #61 Sol Berdinowitz

I stop by once in a while for a good laugh. Seriously life-less obsessed jerks…

Don’t bring it here, please.

70 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:24:57am

re: #64 wrenchwench

Wow, that’s from John McCain? Fuck that guy. That is what I’d expect from some dude with a misspelled sign.

What the hell.

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:25:11am

re: #68 Amory Blaine

Ha ha yeah he wants to “hear” you…..Dig in your wallet.

Let me hear your voice and by hear your voice, I mean dig deep in to your wallet.

72 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:25:45am

re: #70 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Wow, that’s from John McCain? Fuck that guy. That is what I’d expect from some dude with a misspelled sign.

What the hell.

He’s become that dude.

73 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:25:57am

re: #64 wrenchwench

Simply put, our way of life - the very freedoms, liberty and security - that so many generations of Americans worked to build and fought to protect could all be destroyed if Barack Obama and the Democrats have their way with our government.

Ah, taking his loss with dignity, I see.

74 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:26:14am

re: #70 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Wow, that’s from John McCain? Fuck that guy. That is what I’d expect from some dude with a misspelled sign.

What the hell.

It really is sad he’s been reduced to that. For a lot of 2008, even though I wasn’t going to vote for him, I still thought I could respect the man but he’s gotten really really petty since Obama beat him.

75 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:27:13am

Bringing up a topic from yesterday:

Was there/is there an iPhone app for LGF? Charles?

76 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:27:20am
Thank You - You have been removed.

At least it only took one try. Took eight or more to get Rush to stop emailing me.

77 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:27:44am

That’s why I had to unsubscribe to the DNC and Obama. 5 solicitations a day for money pisses me off.

78 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:30:30am

re: #77 Amory Blaine

That’s why I had to unsubscribe to the DNC and Obama. 5 solicitations a day for money pisses me off.

I lost count of the number of Republican/RNC fundraising letters I got in the mail in the latter half of last year.

79 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:30:48am

That didn’t take long did it? WARNING: Guy who Tweeted this is a white supremacist.

80 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:32:37am

re: #79 Vicious Babushka


I always appreciate the 6th grade level history lessons coming from such a learned body.

81 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:33:22am

Alvin Lee died.

82 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:34:28am

re: #81 Gus

Alvin Lee died.

what was the “routine surgical procedure”?

83 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:35:27am

What right-wing racism?

84 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:35:50am

re: #82 Vicious Babushka

what was the “routine surgical procedure”?

Looked in two places and it doesn’t say.

85 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:36:10am

re: #75 geoffm33

No, there’s no iPhone app. But the Google Currents app lets you read LGF articles, or you can install an RSS reader.

I’m making progress on a site redesign that would greatly improve LGF on mobile devices, but I can’t say when it will be ready.

86 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:36:17am

The same Safeway where she was shot a little over two years ago.

87 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:36:35am

John Gunther’s classic Inside Latin America, written on the eve of World War 2, includes some lurid descriptions of Venezuela fifteen years or so into the oil boom. Caracas, for example, had the highest cost of living in the world, with food prices typically 20-30 times higher than in the US. This was largely because of inertia and gross mismanagement in the government’s handling of the huge cash influx, and the obstructionism of the landed classes.
Food was so expensive because domestic production had collapsed when dirt poor peasants fled the countryside for work in and around the oil-fields. Venezuelan land-owners had stubbornly refused modernization, since they had always had a plentiful supply of cheap labor, and their paternalistic social system depended on this relationship. When the labor vanished, the fields went fallow. By the time Gunther arrived in 1941, most food was imported. It was also heavily taxed, as a protective measure for the now non-existent local agricultural sector. Oil money had been coming in since 1927 but nobody had thought to build local factories for the production of tractors or even shovels and hoes.

88 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:36:35am

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

What right-wing racism?

Yeah stupid Jews and Catholics don’t get that America is supposed to be a nation for White Protestants only.//

89 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:36:45am

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

What right-wing racism?

ADARN.

90 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:37:12am

re: #86 wrenchwench

The same Safeway where she was shot a little over two years ago.

She’s an admirable woman. Much respect to both her and her husband.

91 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:37:59am

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP


92 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:38:08am

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Man that would be so sweet. One page opening consumes multiple megabytes (2-3) on my phone with my limited cheapskate data plan.

93 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:38:27am

Bummer.

94 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:38:37am

re: #27 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut reaction:

What media lovefest? Every single article I’ve read from both mainstream media and politically-leaning organizations has been very specific in pointing out that not only was Chavez a dictator who had an effective one-party rulership, he was also a power-hungry tyrant who suppressed the voices of everyone who disagreed with him, including individuals who supported his rise to power.

Some of his ideas, like populist reforms of social safety nets and the concept of eradicating government corruption are on the surface laudable, however simply using those to justify a totalitarian means are not at all praiseworthy. Especially when it just means replacing one form of corruption and graft with another.

95 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:38:43am

re: #91 Vicious Babushka

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP

“.Hitler’s transformation of Germany included inciting Racial & Religious Hatred! Sound Familiar”

Yeah, it described TGDN perfectly.

96 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:38:57am

Yeah it’s just like Hitler except it’s not. You can’t blast Dems and liberals for being multiculturalists and call us Nazis, sorry you just can’t.

97 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:38:58am

re: #91 Vicious Babushka

You keep talking about the doobie of derp. Makes me want a puff. ;)

98 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:39:48am
99 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:39:58am

re: #97 Amory Blaine

You keep talking about the doobie of derp. Makes me want a puff. ;)

Weed mellows u out but when wingnuts toke it makes them paranoid.

100 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:40:15am

re: #96 HappyWarrior

Yep. Obama Obama ,blah blah blah. Hitler. But I’m making no comparisons or allusions.

101 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:40:32am
102 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:40:33am

re: #85 Charles Johnson

No, there’s no iPhone app. But the Google Currents app lets you read LGF articles, or you can install an RSS reader.

I’m making progress on a site redesign that would greatly improve LGF on mobile devices, but I can’t say when it will be ready.

Excellent, thanks! I have no issues with the article/page reading on mobile (especially with subscriber/ads turned off) but enhancements to commenting/quoting/replying would be awesome.

I’ll go stroke the tip jar in hopes it will usher it along (even if only by a minute or two). Thanks!

103 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:40:54am

Republican strategist: Brady Bill didn’t stop Gabrielle Giffords shooting

“We already have the Brady Bill, and it didn’t stop what happened to Gabrielle Giffords,” Chris Wilson said, referring to the 2011 attack in which six other people were shot and killed. “It didn’t stop [other mass shootings], and it just really isn’t going to have an overall impact from that standpoint. It’s not all that relevant.”

MSNBC analyst Karen Finney wasted no time responding to Wilson’s argument.

“The problem I have with that argument is that one of the key things that the NRA has blocked over the last several years is research,” Finney said. “So we don’t actually have an accurate picture of what has or hasn’t been prevented.”

104 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:40:57am

re: #92 Amory Blaine

Man that would be so sweet. One page opening consumes multiple megabytes (2-3) on my phone with my limited cheapskate data plan.

I recommend using the Spy mode to read comments on mobile devices - much better than loading a whole thread with a smartphone.

105 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:41:01am

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP

106 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:41:37am

re: #75 geoffm33

Bringing up a topic from yesterday:

Was there/is there an iPhone app for LGF? Charles?

Somehow, a while back with my first iPhone, I got a LGF logo on my phone that takes me to the LGF logon screen when I hit it.

I think it’s just a bookmark on Safari.

The screen is too small for me, so I never use it —besides I have macbook now, so I take it with when travelling, which was the main reason I was using the internet on my phone. I hate hotel TV.

107 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:42:05am

Just had a kid in here wearing an infowars t-shirt. I almost said something about it, but I didn’t have what he wanted and he left pretty quickly.

108 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:42:43am

You know, if they want to be persecuted so bad, they can always leave.

109 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:43:14am

Herp de Derp.

110 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:43:38am
111 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:43:53am

Chavez was a populist that exploited the paranoid style and revanchist sentiments. He shut down criticism by associating all critique with conspiracy and treason. He created a sense of national unity via establishing a vast “us versus them” mentality in international relations, and enhanced it by associated with dictators that apply the same puffer-fish technique of manipulating public image. It’s not a coincidence he found his way to the ur-scapegoat of antisemitic conspiracy.

All that shit is toxic to an representative democracy with an informed populace. The cheap spectacle and the cynical legerdemain trumps whatever kernel of legitimate complaint or theory lies at the bottom. In the specific case of Venezuela, the crap Perez was doing deserved scrutiny, and maybe the IMF neoliberal push for privatization wasn’t a good idea…but none of all the other shit that Chavez pulled gets washed away. There is no “I got this one thing sorta right, so I get a pass everywhere else.”

And the shitty thing is, that paranoid style and cheap, flashy showmanship are his legacy. The next guy has the machinery in place to be whatever kind of kleptocratic or abusive ruler he wants, so longs as the performance continues. I really hope it doesn’t roll that way, but populism and cheapshow contrarianism are effective cons.

112 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:44:40am

DERP. SAME JOB AS “SENIOR GRAPHIC DESIGNER”

113 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:44:42am

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP

I wish this were just derpydoodle funny, but I truly fear that this poisoned “true patriot” atmosphere will grow overheated and blow up in our faces, there seem to be too many people pushing to make it happen one way or another.

114 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:45:19am

So, before Chavez, lots of people were starving?

115 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:45:23am

re: #109 Kragar (Antichrist )

116 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:45:38am

Somebody have a good “In Soviet Russia” for this? I’m Derped out.

117 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:45:59am

re: #112 Vicious Babushka

DERP. SAME JOB AS “SENIOR GRAPHIC DESIGNER”

So wastful

118 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:46:11am

re: #90 HappyWarrior

She’s an admirable woman. Much respect to both her and her husband.

‘Former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is joined by her husband Mark Kelly and Emily Nottingham, mother of shooting victim Gabe Zimmerman, listening to a speaker as they returned on Wednesday to the site of a shooting that left her critically wounded to urge key senators to support expanded background checks for gun purchases.’

AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin

119 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:46:22am

re: #112 Vicious Babushka

DERP. SAME JOB AS “SENIOR GRAPHIC DESIGNER”

Remind me again, why does the White House need a chief calligrapher?

I am sure they did not have one until Obama added one to send special coded Arabic messages to his Muslim Brotherhood overlords.

/

120 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:46:32am

God if I had a dime for every time, someone equates communism with gay rights. The funny thing is the most pro gay person I know is among the most anti communist people I know too.

121 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:46:50am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

Somebody have a good “In Soviet Russia” for this? I’m Derped out.

In Soviet Russia, Communists debase and degrade homosexuals.

122 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:46:52am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

Somebody have a good “In Soviet Russia” for this? I’m Derped out.

In Soviet Russia, Homo Marriage supports You!

123 The Mountain That Blogs  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:46:57am

re: #115 geoffm33

That link Fischer provides is to a site operated by Jim Inhofe’s climate researcher.

124 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:47:33am

In Soviet Russia, family brings down homo marriage?

125 thecommodore  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:48:08am

re: #27 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut reaction:

Profound stupidity on parade.

126 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:48:14am

re: #45 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I don’t get the association between Chavez being in power and oil. Could you explain?

Oil revenues allowed him to fund his populist social state.

Without those oil revenues, he would have had to find other ways of remaining popular.

127 thecommodore  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:48:43am

re: #7 Sol Berdinowitz

I see that Charles is responding in fear to the Stalker Site, which accused him of not taking a stand against those posters here who praised Chavez.

/

The Stalker Site is also profound stupidity on parade.

128 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:48:43am

Typical wingnut could not get past the Table of Contents

129 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:48:55am

Someone is hired by the government

BURN HIM

130 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:49:46am

WHITE HOUSE SENIOR GRAPHIC DESIGNER SHOULD WORK FOR BOWL OF RICE & GRUEL!!!1111!!

131 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:49:47am

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

Chavez would not have stayed in power without our demand for his nation’s resources. We create these figures, we have to learn to live with them or do without their oil.

Actually we tried to overthrow him in 2002, but the coup failed.

Chavez was ‘our creation’ only in the sense that his understandable distrust and paranoia with regard to the US exacerbated his autocratic tendencies.

132 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:50:00am

Yeah I can never understand the Federalist paper card conservatives pull out. It was um arguing for a strong central federal government after all.

133 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:50:16am

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

Typical wingnut could not get past the Table of Contents

They’d call Hamilton a commie the second they started reading Hamilton’s views on government and government size.

134 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:50:31am

re: #127 thecommodore

The Stalker Site is also profound stupidity on parade.

The crosslinking of derp sites results in a North Korean Mass Games of stupid.

135 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:50:35am

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

Typical wingnut could not get past the Table of Contents

If they read the Federalist Papers, they would realize that a well regulated militia doesn’t mean every one gets to own their own private arsenal.

136 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:51:19am

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP

All 29 of them?

137 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:51:23am

re: #132 Amory Blaine

Yeah I can never understand the Federalist paper card conservatives pull out. It was um arguing for a strong central federal government after all.

Which is why some more honest conservatives embrace Patrick Henry who opposed the writing of the Constitution in the first place. Remember, the Constitution was replacing the Articles of Confederation because the AoC gave too much power to the states and not enough to the central government.

138 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:51:37am

re: #133 HappyWarrior

They’d call Hamilton a commie the second they started reading Hamilton’s views on government and government size.

Hamilton was far-thinking in that regard, IIRC. He recognized the need for a central bank for economic stability, and the need for economic security if the “Confederation” was to survive.

139 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:52:23am

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Which is why some more honest conservatives embrace Patrick Henry who opposed the writing of the Constitution in the first place. Remember, the Constitution was replacing the Articles of Confederation because the AoC gave too much power to the states and not enough to the central government.

Wingnuts have not read anything by the Founding Fathers except for the Fake Quotes which they never said.

140 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:52:53am

re: #135 Kragar (Antichrist )

If they read the Federalist Papers, they would realize that a well regulated militia doesn’t mean every one gets to own their own private arsenal.

Also, the little detail about a militia being a military force for military action, not some kind of irregular law enforcement.

141 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:52:57am

re: #138 FemNaziBitch

Hamilton was far-thinking in that regard, IIRC. He recognized the need for a central bank for economic stability, and the need for economic security if the “Confederation” was to survive.

Reminds me of something I wrote in freshman American history class about how we live by Jefferson’s ideals but we live in Hamilton’s America. We never did become the nation of small farmers that Jefferson thought we would. Hamilton was very yes far thinking. He’s hard to like as a person honestly but the guy was insightful.

142 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:53:03am

re: #137 HappyWarrior

Yes which belies the argument that the constitution advocated for less government control when it was clearly for giving the feds more power.

143 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:53:16am

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts have not read anything by the Founding Fathers except for the Fake Quotes which they never said.

But they’ve read all those David Barton books.
/

144 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:53:25am

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts have not read anything by the Founding Fathers except for the Fake Quotes which they never said.

Like this one “I hate socialism and liberals.” Thomas Jefferson.

145 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:53:40am

Good news folks.

The TSA, in its infinite wisdom has finally decided that wiffleball bats are not effective items to use for hijacking an airplane.

TSA to Permit Small Knives, Golf Clubs Aboard Passenger Planes

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration announced that it will allow small knives and other previously restricted items like golf clubs and hockey sticks on the plane for the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks.

“This is part of an overall Risk-Based Security approach, which allows Transportation Security Officers to better focus their efforts on finding higher threat items such as explosives,” the TSA said in a statement.

Knives must be less than 2.36 inches and less than half an inch at the widest point. Box cutters and knives with locking blades and molding handles are still banned, NBC News reported. The change will take effect April 25.

146 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:54:05am

re: #145 RadicalModerate

Good news folks.

The TSA, in its infinite wisdom has finally decided that wiffleball bats are not effective items to use for hijacking an airplane.

TSA to Permit Small Knives, Golf Clubs Aboard Passenger Planes

What could possibly go wrong?

147 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:54:19am

Meanwhile, Breitbart.com just keeps hammering away - five posts on their front page today yelling about BENGHAZI!

148 Mattand  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:54:24am

“ThinkProgress: Why Democrats Shouldn’t Eulogize Hugo Chavez”

Was this even on the table? Isn’t this similar to saying “Why You Shouldn’t Lick a Moving Lawn Mower Blade”?

149 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:54:30am

re: #126 Sol Berdinowitz

Oil revenues helped him prop up Castro’s Cuba. Next regime might find itself pressured from within to keep more of that money at home, meaning that Cuba’s going to suffer more than Venezuela as a result of Chavez’s death.

150 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:54:52am

re: #142 Amory Blaine

Yes which belies the argument that the constitution advocated for less government control when it was clearly for giving the feds more power.

I’ll tell you as a former history major what peeves me most when folks talk about the Founders is when they talk about them as being in unison on the issues of the day. I mean there were some Founders who didn’t think the Bill of Rights was necessary because they thought the Constitution implied those rights. It’s a good thing we had people like Madison and others that pushed for its inclusion.

151 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:54:56am

OBAMA IS SHREDDING THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION

152 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:55:24am

re: #91 Vicious Babushka

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP

Good grief. Try reading his “Cost of Discipleship” instead and you’d know what he’d think of that ignorance. That’s as bad as how they twist the reality of MLK to suit their sick fantasies.

153 iossarian  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:56:08am

Not going to join in the gleeful Chavez-bashing while we’re happy to fill up SUVs on the best juice the Saudis can sell us.

Fuck that.

154 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:56:13am

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, Breitbart.com just keeps hammering away - five posts on their front page today yelling about BENGHAZI!

One of the memes I remember from back in my Freeper days was this graphic of a ‘50’s guy face-palming “NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN”

155 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:56:22am

re: #131 AntonSirius

Actually we tried to overthrow him in 2002, but the coup failed.

Chavez was ‘our creation’ only in the sense that his understandable distrust and paranoia with regard to the US exacerbated his autocratic tendencies.

Yes, and that botched coup really helped anchor his credibility. People who push for “regime change” in Iran forget that pressure from the outside just strengthens the hand of the conservatives agains any forces for moderation in that country.

But once again, if not for the money they earn selling us oil, these sort of authoritarian regimes would not have the means to stay in power.

156 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:57:23am

Grayson: Obama must not give in to GOP’s ‘unquenchable thirst to hurt the needy’

Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) and freshman Rep. Mark Takano (D-CA) announced Wednesday that they are drawing a “line in the sand” with President Barack Obama on cuts to social programs and possible deals to end the sequester. Grayson said that certain cuts are unconscionable and that progressives must rally against the Republican Party’s “unquenchable thirst to hurt the needy” and urge the president not to make cuts to programs that will disproportionately hurt the poor, the sick and the elderly.

Grayson and Takano have written a letter to the president stating that they will staunchly oppose any cuts to benefits in Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security “including raising the retirement age or cutting the cost of living adjustments that our constituents earned and need.” The congressmen hope that other Democrats and members of the House Progressive caucus will sign the letter as well.

157 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:58:00am

re: #131 AntonSirius

I remember that exactly, as I was vacationing with the wife in Mexico at the time. It was a big deal.

158 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 11:59:39am

re: #138 FemNaziBitch

Hamilton was at the forefront of the American industrial revolution too. He was involved in the power plant/foundries at the Great Falls in NJ, which led to all manner of industry.

In 1791, Alexander Hamilton and a group of investors created the S.U.M., the Society for Establishing Useful Manufactures, to harness the tremendous power of the Passaic Great Falls. They hired Pierre Charles L’Enfant to design the largest, most significant power system at that time, one that diverted water from the Passaic River above the falls to mills along its route. It was the boldest private enterprise ever conceived in the early days of the United States. Hamilton envisioned an industrialized America and the creation of this raceway system was his ambitious example of how corporations could be organized to develop manufacturing on a large scale. With this enterprise, along with the law, finance and incentives he put in place as the nation’s first Secretary of the Treasurer, Hamilton forged the basis of American capitalism. The planned industrialization of this historic place is the realization of the Hamiltonian vision of an industrialized America. This is truly a founding father’s site.

The City of Paterson, along with other manufacturing centers across New England, eventually created great wealth from the combination of waterpower, machines, labor, and capital. Paterson achieved prominence in the national economy undreamed of by its founder. The waterpower system fostered many technological advances in industry, such as the first cotton duck cloth for sails, the first continuous sheet paper, the first revolver by Samuel Colt, and the first practical submarine by John Holland. Paterson became the world’s center for the production of cotton, silk and locomotives.

One of the two locomotives involved in the Golden Spike moment at Promontory Summit in Utah was built in Paterson.

So yeah, Hamilton’s vision won out.

159 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:00:42pm

i’m not in favor of eulogizing chavez, or any other autocrat plus moron that resembles him

but wasn’t pinochet just as bad? how about the shah?

160 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:01:52pm

DERP

161 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:02:33pm

re: #160 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Obama was supposed to something about Chavez as a two month Senator?

162 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:02:51pm

re: #160 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Bush must have been a fellow traveler as well then.

163 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:03:21pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Reminds me of something I wrote in freshman American history class about how we live by Jefferson’s ideals but we live in Hamilton’s America. We never did become the nation of small farmers that Jefferson thought we would. Hamilton was very yes far thinking. He’s hard to like as a person honestly but the guy was insightful.

Jefferson wanted a truly Roman Agrarian society complete with slaves. Hamilton had a bit more realistic view. I’m not a lover of Jefferson.

164 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:03:32pm

DERP DERP! HURR DURR!

165 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:03:43pm

re: #159 engineer cat

i’m not in favor of eulogizing chavez, or any other autocrat plus moron that resembles him

but wasn’t pinochet just as bad? how about the shah?

Yes, they were. I don’t think you’ll find many of us who are critical of eulogizing Chavez here who will disagree with that.

166 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:03:47pm

re: #160 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Why didn’t Bush???

167 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:04:02pm

re: #164 Vicious Babushka

DERP DERP! HURR DURR!

Bush wasn’t President 8 years ago?

168 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:04:27pm

re: #159 engineer cat

i’m not in favor of eulogizing chavez, or any other autocrat plus moron that resembles him

but wasn’t pinochet just as bad? how about the shah?

Or Saddam, back when he was our “friend”.

169 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:04:33pm
170 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:04:39pm

re: #164 Vicious Babushka

DERP DERP! HURR DURR!

HUGO CHAVEZ WOULD HAVE DIED 8 YEARS AGO UNDER #GOP LEADERSHIP!

He would have died long ago under GOP healthcare, yes…

171 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:05:06pm

re: #169 Vicious Babushka

SILENCE! GO PLAY WITH YOUR GOVERNMENT ISSUED WHISTLE!
/

172 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:05:25pm

Now he’s going to block me, but not before telling me to shut up and die in a ditch.

173 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:05:29pm

re: #166 Varek Raith

Why didn’t Bush???

He’s probably not old enough to remember. =)

174 iossarian  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:05:41pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

Or Saddam, back when he was our “friend”.

Or the Nigerian regime that’s quite happy to execute anti-oil protestors.

175 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:05:54pm

re: #163 FemNaziBitch

Jefferson wanted a truly Roman Agrarian society complete with slaves. Hamilton had a bit more realistic view. I’m not a lover of Jefferson.

I really grew jaded on Jefferson when I had to research him and slavery for an article we did at the magazine firm in the summer. The idea of Jefferson the reluctant slave-owner is very, very false. Anyhow, my favorite founder remains Ben Franklin. I like Roger Sherman too- the kid brother got to play him in a mock Constitutional convention.

176 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:06:15pm

re: #174 iossarian

Or the Nigerian regime that’s quite happy to execute anti-oil protestors.

And gays.

177 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:06:28pm

re: #172 Vicious Babushka

Now he’s going to block me, but not before telling me to shut up and die in a ditch.

178 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:06:48pm

re: #172 Vicious Babushka

Now he’s going to block me, but not before telling me to shut up and die in a ditch.

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!!

179 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:06:50pm

re: #164 Vicious Babushka

So these people can’t even subtract 8 from 13?

180 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:06:54pm

re: #171 Kragar (Antichrist )

SILENCE! GO PLAY WITH YOUR GOVERNMENT ISSUED WHISTLE!
/

It’s silent because it doesn’t come with a pea in it!!!

181 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:07:21pm

re: #178 geoffm33

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!!

BWAHAHAHAA!

182 iossarian  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:07:21pm

Really interesting New Yorker article from a month or so ago on high-rise slums in Caracas.

Obviously loads of corruption, but that’s par for the course in developing countries (unfortunately).

What set Chavez apart, of course, is that he wasn’t letting BP/Exxon/etc. take all the money out of the country.

183 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:07:40pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

Or Saddam, back when he was our “friend”.

Well. If we keep going back in history we’ll find that some Croat leader was a Nazi supporter. Or something. =|

184 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:07:42pm

re: #153 iossarian

Not going to join in the gleeful Chavez-bashing while we’re happy to fill up SUVs on the best juice the Saudis can sell us.

Fuck that.

I disagree.

Chavez deserves to be bashed. So does Saudi Arabia. And so does the USA.

While—and this needs to be emphasized—we don’t own his bad behavior, it should be given more thought that people like Chavez get their power from that kernel of legitimate complaint around which their whirling circus of propaganda orbit. Having a national mythology where we didn’t fuck up by backing the Shah or Pinochet is something we need to confront. Fuck-yeahism isn’t a vice exclusive to Venezuela.

Anti-US and anti-gringo stuff works in Central and South America because the USA has made stupid and self-serving choices since the era of Teddy Roosevelt. Anti-capitalist stuff works because the international community has allowed all sorts of fuckery to go on in the third world.

185 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:07:43pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

I really grew jaded on Jefferson when I had to research him and slavery for an article we did at the magazine firm in the summer. The idea of Jefferson the reluctant slave-owner is very, very false. Anyhow, my favorite founder remains Ben Franklin. I like Roger Sherman too- the kid brother got to play him in a mock Constitutional convention.

Jefferson accused Hamilton of being a Monarchist. Because I guess that is somehow worse than being a proponet of Aristocracy —which, IMHO Jefferson was.

He just didn’t want anyone telling HIM what to do.

186 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:07:59pm

re: #179 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

So these people can’t even subtract 8 from 13?

MATH IS LIBRUL.

187 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:08:10pm

re: #179 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

So these people can’t even subtract 8 from 13?

Even I can do that.

188 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:08:17pm

We’d be a lot better off if more people paid heed to the Bibble.
/

189 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:08:17pm

Gotta be a fake, right?

190 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:08:22pm

re: #178 geoffm33

I’m beginning to believe Poe’s law applies here.

191 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:08:24pm

As fucked up as Chavez was he was still the most honest and best leader Venezuela ever had. Now maybe they can improve on what he did by helping get evil things like food, education healthcare from his country’s previously looted natural resources.

192 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:08:41pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

I was always intrigued by Franklin’s Junto meetings.

193 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:09:01pm

re: #178 geoffm33

YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!!

Isn’t Bibble the alien responsible for all our technology advances?

194 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:09:55pm

re: #164 Vicious Babushka

Which is why Dubya had him killed.

Oh, wait.

195 The Mountain That Blogs  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:10:03pm

Ted Cruz just compared Rand Paul to Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

196 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:10:06pm

re: #189 geoffm33

Gotta be a fake, right?

Think so.

197 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:10:10pm

re: #191 Destro

As fucked up as Chavez was he was still the most honest and best leader Venezuela ever had.

What about his immediate predecessor, the man who freed him from jail? It kind of seems like you’re blaming him for an economic crisis he inherited, and that you thought he was a right-winger when he wasn’t.

198 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:10:18pm

Maybe he meant Leslie Bibb.

199 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:10:30pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

I really grew jaded on Jefferson when I had to research him and slavery for an article we did at the magazine firm in the summer. The idea of Jefferson the reluctant slave-owner is very, very false. Anyhow, my favorite founder remains Ben Franklin. I like Roger Sherman too- the kid brother got to play him in a mock Constitutional convention.

You work with Smithsonian? At least that’s where I read a big article showing what a piece of work he really was…

200 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:10:51pm

re: #195 The Mountain That Blogs

Ted Cruz just compared Rand Paul to Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

201 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:11:03pm

Could be a parody account: followers are mostly progressives.

202 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:11:25pm

re: #196 Gus

Reagoen sounds like the International Scientific Unit for Derpness

203 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:11:50pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

The only ones that do are either film students, in which case EW LIBRULS, or they were homeschooled.

204 makeitstop  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:11:54pm

re: #101 Gus

It only took RS about 5 hours to post that. Too busy compiling Top 100 lists that no one agrees with, I guess.

/

205 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:11:54pm

re: #182 iossarian

Really interesting New Yorker article from a month or so ago on high-rise slums in Caracas.

Obviously loads of corruption, but that’s par for the course in developing countries (unfortunately).

What set Chavez apart, of course, is that he wasn’t letting BP/Exxon/etc. take all the money out of the country.

I often wonder that the ME would look like now if we (with the help of the British) hadn’t orchestrated the overthrow of Mosaddegh. I guess we’ll never know. *sigh*

206 The Mountain That Blogs  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:12:01pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

{raises hand}. Probably not enough though.

207 geoffm33  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:12:14pm

re: #196 Gus

Think so.

Definitely. Not as funny anymore.

208 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:12:25pm

re: #191 Destro

As fucked up as Chavez was he was still the most honest and best leader Venezuela ever had. Now maybe they can improve on what he did by helping get evil things like food, education healthcare from his country’s previously looted natural resources.

Maybe restore freedom of the press and democracy?
Or are you opposed to that too?

209 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:12:50pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

I do, but I disagree.

Rand Paul is more like Jimmy Stewart in Harvey. Except not as nice.

210 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:13:06pm

re: #205 CuriousLurker

More curious if that tard Abdulhamid II didn’t do a palace coup against Murad V in 1876.

211 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:13:53pm

More like Bluto.

212 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:14:06pm

re: #199 William Barnett-Lewis

You work with Smithsonian? At least that’s where I read a big article showing what a piece of work he really was…

Nope, I worked at a history magazine firm that distributes a bunch of different magazines. The magazine I worked on for that story was American History. And yeah, it was frustrating to read all the stuff I did but that work is a good reason why while I respect the FFs I don’t put them on an altar either.

213 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:14:11pm

re: #191 Destro

Yawn. I hear enough of that kind of crap from right wingers praising Pinochet. It’s never true. Now go back to your anti-American threads, kay?

214 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:14:34pm

re: #184 The Ghost of a Flea

I disagree.

Chavez deserves to be bashed. So does Saudi Arabia. And so does the USA.

While—and this needs to be emphasized—we don’t own his bad behavior, it should be given more thought that people like Chavez get their power from that kernel of legitimate complaint around which their whirling circus of propaganda orbit. Having a national mythology where we didn’t fuck up by backing the Shah or Pinochet is something we need to confront. Fuck-yeahism isn’t a vice exclusive to Venezuela.

Anti-US and anti-gringo stuff works in Central and South America because the USA has made stupid and self-serving choices since the era of Teddy Roosevelt. Anti-capitalist stuff works because the international community has allowed all sorts of fuckery to go on in the third world.

It’s not that we just backed the Shah types it is we did it to rob these nations blind and by we I mean American and western multinationals.

People forget - fuck forget - Americans have no clue - that in the early 90s the country was robbed so blindly that they people were starving in the streets and food riots broke out. The so called Venezuelan govt (a front for about a half dozen oligarch families making money from petro-trades) killed over 3,000 of the protestors and buried them in secret graves.

Chavez was not prefect and would not be acceptable as a leader in any industrialized western democratic nation but he was as close as the screwed up Venezuela could produce in terms of a reformer because it did not seem the oligarchs ruling Venezuela were trying to reform in any way or even try to shut people up a little by sending them some affordable food here or there.

215 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:15:03pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

I do.

216 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:15:22pm

re: #209 The Ghost of a Flea

I do, but I disagree.

Rand Paul is more like Jimmy Stewart in Harvey. Except not as nice.

I love that movie.

Steward was fantastic in that.

I wouldn’t insult the movie by comparing any part of it to Rand Paul.

217 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:16:01pm

re: #212 HappyWarrior

Cyrus Griffin was the best President the US ever had!! ////

218 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:16:11pm

re: #215 HappyWarrior

I do.

Well, it seems Lizards are not anything like the average bear.

219 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:16:22pm

re: #214 Destro

Chavez was not prefect and would not be acceptable as a leader in any industrialized western democratic nation but he was as close as the screwed up Venezuela could produce in terms of a reformer because it did not seem the oligarchs ruling Venezuela were trying to reform in any way or even try to shut people up a little by sending them some affordable food here or there.

That is a very good summary of who he was and what he was about: neither a hero or a bugaboo, just a product of a fucked up country

220 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:16:24pm

re: #197 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

What about his immediate predecessor, the man who freed him from jail? It kind of seems like you’re blaming him for an economic crisis he inherited, and that you thought he was a right-winger when he wasn’t.

The man who carried out right wing austerities that crippled the country? Leftwingers who carry out rightwingers fuck the poor economic policies - what are they called?

221 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:16:34pm

re: #159 engineer cat

i’m not in favor of eulogizing chavez, or any other autocrat plus moron that resembles him

but wasn’t pinochet just as bad? how about the shah?

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

222 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:17:15pm

Chavez lead Venezuela for 14 long years. He left a country that remains in ruin. Chavez was also an ally of Assad and led the country to support his regime which included the continuation of oil so Assad could continue to massacre the people of Syria.

223 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:17:48pm

re: #214 Destro

Rafael Caldera’s government killed 3,000 protesters and buried them in secret graves?

Could you cite this?

224 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:18:18pm

There was some quote or reference to Cuban saying that after Castro, he “ate every day.”

That is beginning to have more meaning for me the older I get and the more I pay attention to the world.

225 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:18:30pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

Yeah, Chavez was an ass but he wasn’t exactly the worst person in modern history.

226 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:18:33pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

Maybe restore freedom of the press and democracy?
Or are you opposed to that too?

One step at a time - when did the USA free the slaves in connection to our revolution?

And the press he cracked down on was like the FOX news press for the oligarchs - Venezuela is not the USA - it’s a different dynamic there.

227 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:19:15pm

Other than the oil aspect, I’m rather ignorant of Chavez. Did he kill his own people or disappear anyone?

228 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:19:25pm

re: #226 Destro

One step at a time - when did the USA free the slaves in connection to our revolution?

Except Chavez took backwards steps. He made the government less democratic, not more democratic. He increased persecution of the press.

229 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:20:17pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Another reason Pinochet sucked big time.

230 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:20:28pm

re: #208 Varek Raith

He certainly opposes the existance of Croatians and Bosnians. Again, want to point this out.

During the war, and following the massive deterioration of internal security under the incompetent Ustaše regime, the Nazis tried to create a quisling Waffen-SS unit in Bosnia called the 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) in February 1943. Imam Halim Malkoć was the only Muslim to earn the German Iron Cross during World War II. The formation was not very successful, and many men deserted to the Communist partisans. But the existence of this unit served as very useful anti-Muslim propaganda after 1945.

I get the feeling he loves Pamela Geller. The history of the Bosnian people is one of being caught in between the Serbs and the Croatians. Remember they suffered too in WWII. Somewhere around 86-100 thousand were slain.

231 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:20:48pm

re: #226 Destro

One step at a time - when did the USA free the slaves in connection to our revolution?

And the press he cracked down on was like the FOX news press for the oligarchs - Venezuela is not the USA - it’s a different dynamic there.

Funny how these “different dynamics” allow you to support Chavez, Assad, and Karadzic simultaneously.

232 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:21:06pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

Yeah, the Shah sucked too. Ask any Iranian expat over 50 about the SAVAK.

233 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:21:23pm

re: #218 FemNaziBitch

Well, it seems Lizards are not anything like the average bear.

We’re shaggier than the average bear, and that despite the lizardly scales!

(I also am under 50 and know about Mr Smith Goes to Washington. Fan of both Jimmy Stewart *and* Claude Raines.)

234 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:21:37pm

Blame America. The favorite of third world leaders.

235 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:22:40pm

Michael Moore unsurprisingly joins the parade of idiots
Michael Moore, Sean Penn mourn death of Hugo Chavez

236 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:22:40pm

re: #234 Gus

Blame America. The favorite of third world leaders.

True, but I can’t fall into the same trap and paint all of the third world leaders with the same brush. Which, it seems the Whackos do.

237 makeitstop  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:22:50pm

re: #151 dragonath

OBAMA IS SHREDDING THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDECONFETTIRATION

FTFY

238 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:23:24pm

Gotta get back to work. Later.

239 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:23:35pm

re: #214 Destro

Why do you keep acting as though Caldera’s government never existed?

240 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:24:23pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

Living under either of their regimes would suck, but Pinochet was far more likely to have you killed.

241 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:24:55pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

One major difference between Hugo Chavez, and the other two (Augusto Pinochet, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi).

Both Pionchet and Pahlavi gained power via US-backed coups that overthrew democratically-elected leaders - just coincidentally orchestrated by Republican administrations (Eisenhower and Nixon, to be exact), and we directly propped up their respective dictatorships for years.

242 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:25:41pm

Yeah. People forget that the Germans led to the rise of the 3rd Reich and the Nazi party and WWII which led to the deaths of over 61,000,000 people. With the help of the Japanese. Yeah, people forget don’t they?

243 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:25:59pm

Lindsey Graham on Hurricane Katrina: My family needs AR-15s to fight ‘roaming gangs’

During a hearing Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Wednesday, the South Carolina Republican pressed Attorney General Eric Holder about his support for a proposed assault weapons ban.

“Can you imagine a circumstance where an AR-15 would be a better defense tool than, say, a double-barrel shotgun?” Graham asked. “Let me give you an example, that you have an lawless environment, where you have an natural disaster or some catastrophic event — and those things unfortunately do happen, and law and order breaks down because the police can’t travel, there’s no communication. And there are armed gangs roaming around neighborhoods. Can you imagine a situation where your home happens to be in the crosshairs of this group that a better self-defense weapon may be a semiautomatic AR-15 vs. a double-barrel shotgun?”

Holder pointed out that the senator was “dealing with a hypothetical in a world that doesn’t exist.”

“I’m afraid that world does exist,” Graham insisted. “It existed in New Orleans, to some extent up in Long Island [after Hurricane Sandy], it could exist tomorrow if there’s a cyber attack against country and the power grid goes down and the dams are released and chemical plants are — discharges.”

244 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:27:27pm

re: #223 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Rafael Caldera’s government killed 3,000 protesters and buried them in secret graves?

Could you cite this?

I am talking about the regime of then President Carlos Andrés Pérez. Caldera came after but the economic policies of Perez continued under Caldera. I said this a few dozen times to you. Chavez won every election with large popular votes. Even his enemies have not charged him with rigging the vote to win.

I would love for a Caldera like person to have been the future of Venezuela but he did nothing but continue IMF austerities and cheap western contracts for his nation’s oil wealth.

245 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:27:52pm

re: #243 Kragar (Antichrist )

Roving Gangs of WHAT in South Carolina?

:0

246 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:28:23pm

re: #228 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Except Chavez took backwards steps. He made the government less democratic, not more democratic. He increased persecution of the press.

Actually that is true. But you can’t eat freedom or papers.

247 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:28:31pm

Why does the government insist on banning flame throwers when we could face an invasion of Triffids at almost any moment?

248 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:28:40pm

re: #243 Kragar (Antichrist )

Lindsey Graham on Hurricane Katrina: My family needs AR-15s to fight ‘roaming gangs’

I see that Lindsey Graham is embracing his inner Earl Turner.

249 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:28:46pm

People forget that Shining Path “was responsible for the death or disappearance of 31,331 people.”

250 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:29:10pm

re: #245 FemNaziBitch

Roving Gangs of WHAT in South Carolina?

:0

Crazy Rednecks apparently.

251 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:29:43pm

OK weird. My tweets have disappeared. Never mind.

252 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:29:57pm

re: #245 FemNaziBitch

Roving Gangs of WHAT in South Carolina?

:0

Liberals. Duh.

253 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:29:57pm

re: #246 Destro

Actually that is true. But you can’t eat freedom or papers.

Destroying the press and democracy is not a prereq for feeding your people.

254 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:30:43pm

re: #251 Lidane

Here, have some derp:

*Puff *Puff*Give

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:30:48pm

re: #244 Destro

I am talking about the regime of then President Carlos Andrés Pérez. Caldera came after but the economic policies of Perez continued under Caldera.

This simply isn’t true. He made massive, massive changes in the financial industry in response to the economic crisis.

Chavez won every election with large popular votes. Even his enemies have not charged him with rigging the vote to win.

Yes, they have. And I’m not sure what ‘he won the vote’ is supposed to mean about whether or not he was a fuckhead who attacked press freedom.

I would love for a Caldera like person to have been the future of Venezuela but he did nothing but continue IMF austerities and cheap western contracts for his nation’s oil wealth.

Well, you’re just ignorant, then, and I assume that your ignorance is incurable as it normally is.

256 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:31:07pm

re: #246 Destro

Actually that is true. But you can’t eat freedom or papers.

Thanks, man, for being you. Your own worst enemy.

257 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:31:08pm

re: #231 dragonath

Funny how these “different dynamics” allow you to support Chavez, Assad, and Karadzic simultaneously.

The dynamics are based on who they fight.

Assad vs the Free Syrian Army made up of Muslim Brotherhood and Jihadists for example.

I could root for the jihadists but I don’t.

Bosnia -= also in league with jihadists and ruled by a president who was once in the SS. I could root for them but I don’t.

How did rooting for the Mujaheedeen against the USSR work out for America?

258 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:32:01pm

re: #249 Gus

People forget that Shining Path “was responsible for the death or disappearance of 31,331 people.”

259 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:32:02pm

Going over to watch this for the next 56 minutes or so (if the dogs don’t interrupt for outside breaks)

260 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:32:06pm

I need an AR-15 to open cans.

261 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:32:12pm

re: #254 Amory Blaine

*Puff *Puff*Give

As soon as I get HootSuite to play nice. Heh.

262 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:32:30pm

re: #257 Destro

woooooow

263 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:32:42pm

re: #257 Destro

Bosnia -= also in league with jihadists and ruled by a president who was once in the SS.

Can I point out your source for this is a guy who wrote an article titled “Ronald Reagan: Liberator of Nations”?

264 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:33:22pm

re: #243 Kragar (Antichrist )

Except it didn’t exist after hurricane Sandy in NY. There simply wasn’t roving gangs with guns terrorizing people; the murder rate in NYC metro dropped to nil, crime dropped generally, and while there was occasional reports of looting, these were isolated and sensationalized accounts.

And if there were a cyberattack that resulted in discharges from chemical plants, all the guns in the world wouldn’t matter against a cloud of toxic gas. 2,000+ people killed in Bhopal, and more than 500,000 injured after exposure to methyl isocyanate gas. Not a damned thing a gun would do under those circumstances.

Guns couldn’t save anyone after the Johnstown Flood either. Again, more than 2,000 killed in the flood where a dam gave way.

265 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:33:35pm

re: #260 Amory Blaine

I need an AR-15 to open cans.

I need an AR-15 so I can sell it to a dumbass and use the money to buy a rifle actually worth a damn.

266 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:33:47pm

re: #34 AlexRogan

FURY.

267 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:34:33pm
268 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:34:48pm

Rand Paul is a fucking idiot. He has his panties all knotted up about Drone strikes in the US.
I wish Obama would just call him out.
Look you idiot..If I knew there was a terrorist in America I’d just send in the FBI or a SWAT team. Fuck! How did he become a Senator?
/rant off..Sorry

269 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:35:12pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

I really grew jaded on Jefferson when I had to research him and slavery for an article we did at the magazine firm in the summer. The idea of Jefferson the reluctant slave-owner is very, very false. Anyhow, my favorite founder remains Ben Franklin. I like Roger Sherman too- the kid brother got to play him in a mock Constitutional convention.

I’m a John Adams fan, myself.

270 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:35:31pm

re: #257 Destro

The dynamics are based on who they fight.

Assad vs the Free Syrian Army made up of Muslim Brotherhood and Jihadists for example.

I could root for the jihadists but I don’t.

Bosnia -= also in league with jihadists and ruled by a president who was once in the SS. I could root for them but I don’t.

How did rooting for the Mujaheedeen against the USSR work out for America?

Nebojša Radmanović was born in 1949. Also, Germany was once THE NAZI party. And?

271 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:35:49pm

re: #268 HoosierHoops

Rand Paul is a fucking idiot. He has his panties all knotted up about Drone strikes in the US.
I wish Obama would just call him out.
Look you idiot..If I knew there was a terrorist in America I’d just send in the FBI or a SWAT team. Fuck! How did he become a Senator?
/rant off..Sorry

Kentucky.

272 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:35:52pm

re: #269 chadu

I’m a John Adams fan, myself.

Yeah I like Adams. That miniseries was spectacular.

273 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:36:18pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

(raises hand)

274 Sionainn  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:36:38pm

re: #259 FemNaziBitch

Going over to watch this for the next 56 minutes or so (if the dogs don’t interrupt for outside breaks)

Bookmarked it.

275 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:36:46pm

re: #200 ggt

How many people under 50 understand that reference?

(raises hand)

276 aagcobb  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:37:13pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

HAV MOAR GIANT DOOBIE OF DERP

You think at some point the paranoia will subside, but it won’t. The hysteria will keep building and building as they prepare for the usurper to declare martial law, cancel the November 2016 elections, and start seizing guns and interning God fearing white folk in FEMA camps.

277 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:37:25pm

re: #272 HappyWarrior

Yeah I like Adams. That miniseries was spectacular.

I have an affinity for Sam Adams.

278 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:37:51pm

re: #271 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Kentucky.

*sigh*

The derp shines bright in My Old Kentucky Home.

The bourbon is good, though.

279 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:38:08pm

re: #275 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

(raises hand)

I got it. It doesn’t make one fucking bit of sense, but I got it.

280 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:38:16pm

re: #216 FemNaziBitch

My favorite Stewart film is THE CHEYENNE SOCIAL CLUB.

281 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:38:31pm

re: #278 The Ghost of a Flea

*sigh*

The derp shines bright in My Old Kentucky Home.

The bourbon is good, though.

No doubt, it’s good. But maybe it’s part of the problem?

282 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:38:44pm

re: #277 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I have an affinity for Sam Adams.

I have an affinity for Trappist abbeys.

283 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:38:48pm

re: #257 Destro

The jihadists were one guy. Were their elements that came in from outside that were? Yes. However, of the three sides in that war, the Bosnians were the cleanest. Of course, you are the one who has been an apologist for the Serbian Rape Camps. After reading the stories of those camps, I admit my heart has hardened to what the Serbians have gone, or are going through.

And in Syria, you are quite willing let people die because of a kleptocratic dictator. The lack of foreign intervention earlier allowed the radicals to flourish. To be honest, if the whackjobs and the Baathists want to keep smashing each other, be my guests. The fewer there are off both, the better Syria will be later.

284 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:38:50pm

re: #280 chadu

My favorite Stewart film is THE CHEYENNE SOCIAL CLUB.

Rope!

285 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:39:16pm

re: #279 Kragar (Antichrist )

I got it. It doesn’t make one fucking bit of sense, but I got it.

Well it’s coming from a tea partier, it’s not supposed to actually make sense it’s just supposed to make ya feel good.

286 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:39:36pm
287 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:39:42pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

Pinochet was a much more horrible person than Hugo Chavez.

Understatement of the year, at least.

288 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:39:46pm

re: #281 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

No doubt, it’s good. But maybe it’s part of the problem?

At this point it’s more a matter of Oxycontin and Wingnut Jesus.

289 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:40:22pm

re: #283 ProBosniaLiberal

Of course, you are the one who has been an apologist for the Serbian Rape Camps. After reading the stories of those camps, I admit my heart has hardened to what the Serbians have gone, or are going through.

To be honest, if the whackjobs and the Baathists want to keep smashing each other, be my guests. The fewer there are off both, the better Syria will be later.

And fuck your dumb group blame bullshit too.

290 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:40:28pm

re: #288 The Ghost of a Flea

At this point it’s more a matter of Oxycontin and Wingnut Jesus.

and Meth, I am sure the Meth doesn’t help. Oh and 16 and pregnant.

291 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:40:34pm

I wonder if Destro was railing against the American Imperalist Clinton back in the 90s

292 Lidane  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:41:13pm

re: #281 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

No doubt, it’s good. But maybe it’s part of the problem?

My guess is that people are still pissed about Makers Mark trying to water things down.

293 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:42:20pm

I used to love Ma and Pa Kettle.

294 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:42:20pm

re: #253 Varek Raith

Destroying the press and democracy is not a prereq for feeding your people.

People forget because American education is lacking these days that Athens had to go through a benevolent tyranny that lifted their people out of poverty before democracy could take hold.

295 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:42:34pm

Arkansas Legislature Overrides Veto Of Most Restrictive Abortion Ban

The Arkansas state House on Wednesday voted to override Democratic Gov. Mike Beebe’s veto of a bill banning abortion at 12-weeks of pregnancy, meaning Arkansas now has the nation’s most restrictive abortion ban, the Associated Press reported. The state Senate voted to override the veto on Tuesday. The law won’t take effect until this summer.

296 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:43:25pm

re: #264 lawhawk

Except it didn’t exist after hurricane Sandy in NY. There simply wasn’t roving gangs with guns terrorizing people; the murder rate in NYC metro dropped to nil, crime dropped generally, and while there was occasional reports of looting, these were isolated and sensationalized accounts.

And if there were a cyberattack that resulted in discharges from chemical plants, all the guns in the world wouldn’t matter against a cloud of toxic gas. 2,000+ people killed in Bhopal, and more than 500,000 injured after exposure to methyl isocyanate gas. Not a damned thing a gun would do under those circumstances.

Guns couldn’t save anyone after the Jonestown Flood either. Again, more than 2,000 killed in the flood where a dam gave way.

You could totes shoot the code, or the gas, or the water with an AR-15 and be safe!

297 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:43:40pm

re: #270 Gus

Nebojša Radmanović was born in 1949. Also, Germany was once THE NAZI party. And?

Alija Izebegovic - the president of Bosnia was an SS cadre.

298 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:44:07pm

re: #289 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Try reading those stories without it getting you angry.

My thing is that Serbia wasn’t under occupation after this or Kosovo. They should have been treated like Nazi Germany.

In my eyes, they got away with Murder.

299 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:44:09pm

re: #294 Destro

People forget because American education is lacking these days that Athens had to go through a benevolent tyranny that lifted their people out of poverty before democracy could take hold.

They ‘had to’? Says who?

And therefore no country can become democratic before it becomes wealthy?

I think i’m educated enough to know that one historical progression doesn’t mean that every other historical progression has to be that way. The growth of Athenian democracy is fascinating, but thinking that what has to happen for a democracy to flourish is to first have a benevolent dictator is just kinda hilariously sad.

300 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:44:27pm

re: #291 dragonath

I wonder if Destro was railing against the American Imperalist Clinton back in the 90s

Fuck yea. Hilary lost the Democratic primary because she voted for the Iraq war and Obama did not.

301 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:44:35pm

re: #272 HappyWarrior

Never thought Giamatti could pull it off; glad to be wrong.

302 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:44:41pm

re: #294 Destro

People forget because American education is lacking these days that Athens had to go through a benevolent tyranny that lifted their people out of poverty before democracy could take hold.

The politics of Greek city states is your justification for excusing dictatorships in the modern age?

303 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:44:42pm

re: #294 Destro

People forget because American education is lacking these days that Athens had to go through a benevolent tyranny that lifted their people out of poverty before democracy could take hold.

LOL. Yeah, Dionysius of Syracuse was the best thing ever, wasn’t he

304 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:00pm

re: #244 Destro

I am talking about the regime of then President Carlos Andrés Pérez. Caldera came after but the economic policies of Perez continued under Caldera. I said this a few dozen times to you. Chavez won every election with large popular votes. Even his enemies have not charged him with rigging the vote to win.

I would love for a Caldera like person to have been the future of Venezuela but he did nothing but continue IMF austerities and cheap western contracts for his nation’s oil wealth.

I think he is referring to this.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Wave of protests about price increases (especially the previously heavily subsidized gasoline prices) as the country attempted to follow free-market reforms following an agreement with the IMF. Which also included a very large loan ($4.5B) from the U.S.

305 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:05pm

re: #298 ProBosniaLiberal

Try reading those stories without it getting you angry.

Try not responding to your own anger by blaming entire ethnicities, thus propagating exactly the kind of thinking that leads to the atrocities that anger you.

306 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:17pm

re: #299 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

They ‘had to’? Says who?

And therefore no country can become democratic before it becomes wealthy?

I think i’m educated enough to know that one historical progression doesn’t mean that every other historical progression has to be that way. The growth of Athenian democracy is fascinating, but thinking that what has to happen for a democracy to flourish is to first have a benevolent dictator is just kinda hilariously sad.

And therefore no country can become democratic before it becomes wealthy? Why wealthy? Stable? Fed? Educated? How about that first - anbd let us not forget Venezuela never lost her democracy.

307 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:24pm

re: #294 Destro

People forget because American education is lacking these days that Athens had to go through a benevolent tyranny that lifted their people out of poverty before democracy could take hold.

Benevolent tyranny? Really? That’s an oxymoron of near epic proportion. You can’t equate what happened in Ancient Greece to what happens in the here and now. In case you haven’t noticed tyrants don’t give up power easily and while Chavez may have had good intentions in the beginning, over time his “good intentions” led to a lot of abuse.

308 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:46pm

Why do I even bother.
Facepalm.

309 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:49pm

There are damned good reasons for people to wish Assad gone. He brutalized his own country of Syria, just like his dad. The Hama rules illustrate the point. Assad the Elder wiped out the city of Hama to deal with a Muslim Brotherhood threat. Reports indicate anywhere from 25-60,000 killed in that attack.

Assad the Younger, when faced with Arab Spring protests took up arms against the protesters, who resorted to violence themselves.

Among the now rebel forces are Islamists, AQ types, and others who thrive on the violence of lawless regions (like what was going on just over the border in Iraq for the past decade).

The Assads also saw a need to meddle in the affairs next door in Lebanon, and have no problem being involved in both terrorism and assassination of public officials including Rafik Hariri (most prominently).

That’s the backdrop. An evil regime that destabilizes those around them and a rebel force that includes some of the worst elements from around the Middle East. A strategy that seeks to help the Syrian people directly (refugee aid) and trying to identify those parts of the rebel forces that aren’t AQ or Islamist for further aid, is key. That’s the tact attempted thus far, and so far the results have been to perpetuate a stalemate.

The body count continues - 70,000+ dead and counting; Assad continues to rail against the West and the rebels as foreign forces bent on overthrowing a legitimate government (which itself was predicated upon the coup by Hafez Assad and where power was passed on to Bashar); and now a million Syrians are refugees from the fighting.

310 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:45:57pm

America had their own Hugo Chavez a few years back, albeit to a lesser degree - the major difference being that he was a stanch anti-Marxist.

311 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:46:00pm

re: #284 Gus

Rope is damned good.

312 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:46:27pm

re: #306 Destro

And therefore no country can become democratic before it becomes wealthy? Why wealthy? Stable? Fed? Educated? How about that first - anbd let us not forget Venezuela never lost her democracy.

So what is your point with the Athens bullshit, then? You argue like a man standing on his own dick.

313 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:47:07pm

re: #303 dragonath

LOL. Yeah, Dionysius of Syracuse was the best thing ever, wasn’t he

Syracuse is not Athens. Peisistratos was Athens’ tyrant and before his reforms people were selling their kids into slavery to pay off debts.

314 makeitstop  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:47:07pm
315 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:47:18pm

re: #298 ProBosniaLiberal

Try reading those stories without it getting you angry.

My thing is that Serbia wasn’t under occupation after this or Kosovo. They should have been treated like Nazi Germany.

In my eyes, they got away with Murder.

Listen, please stop generalizing the nationalities of the region. This is coming from someone who actually lost family in the region due to the Axis invasion. There are good and bad people of all nationalities. Listen to Obdicut here. He knows what he’s talking about.

316 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:47:23pm

re: #310 RadicalModerate

America had their own Hugo Chavez a few years back, albeit to a lesser degree - the major difference being that he was a stanch anti-Marxist.

It’s also worth mentioning that conservatives of the day despised the man, and attempted, unsuccessfully to get him impeached.

317 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:47:42pm

re: #305 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Try not responding to your own anger by blaming entire ethnicities, thus propagating exactly the kind of thinking that leads to the atrocities that anger you.

Thank you!

318 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:48:10pm

re: #305 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

So what do you suggest we should have done after Kosovo?

Because the only response that would have been fit would have been a foreign occupation of Serbia by NATO.

319 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:48:49pm

re: #307 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Benevolent tyranny? Really? That’s an oxymoron of near epic proportion. You can’t equate what happened in Ancient Greece to what happens in the here and now. In case you haven’t noticed tyrants don’t give up power easily and while Chavez may have had good intentions in the beginning, over time his “good intentions” led to a lot of abuse.

Chavez was not a tyrant. He stood and won elections. He took some mild actions against organs of the opposition against him run by the old guard oligarchs. I guess if a oligarch can fund a newspaper to flak for him and it gets shut down it’s some sort of black mark but not so much.

320 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:48:56pm

re: #264 lawhawk

Except it didn’t exist after hurricane Sandy in NY. There simply wasn’t roving gangs with guns terrorizing people; the murder rate in NYC metro dropped to nil, crime dropped generally, and while there was occasional reports of looting, these were isolated and sensationalized accounts.

And if there were a cyberattack that resulted in discharges from chemical plants, all the guns in the world wouldn’t matter against a cloud of toxic gas. 2,000+ people killed in Bhopal, and more than 500,000 injured after exposure to methyl isocyanate gas. Not a damned thing a gun would do under those circumstances.

Guns couldn’t save anyone after the Jonestown Flood either. Again, more than 2,000 killed in the flood where a dam gave way.

Johnstown, not Jonestown. The latter is known for its refreshing kool-aid.
And the Conemaugh River has actually tried to remove Johnstown three times, with the 1889 flood being by far the best known.

321 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:49:13pm

re: #318 ProBosniaLiberal

So what do you suggest we should have done after Kosovo?

What is this leap of logic? Please, go back to what I said about you. I said that blaming an entire group is stupid. Group-blame is what causes atrocities of the kind that anger you. Therefore, don’t engage in group blame. What is confusing you about this?

322 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:49:41pm

re: #319 Destro

Chavez was not a tyrant. He stood and won elections. He took some mild actions against organs of the opposition against him run by the old guard oligarchs.

And that was the only people he took ‘mild’ actions against? No other groups?

323 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:50:52pm

re: #320 Feline Fearless Leader

Johnstown, not Jonestown. The latter is known for its refreshing kool-aid.
And the Conemaugh River has actually tried to remove Johnstown three times, with the 1889 flood being by far the best known.

My grandparents survived 1936 flood. My grandmother was fortunate since they lived in Franklin. Grandfather’s family lived more downtown so they got hit dead on.

324 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:51:25pm

re: #319 Destro

Chavez was not a tyrant. He stood and won elections. He took some mild actions against organs of the opposition against him run by the old guard oligarchs. I guess if a oligarch can fund a newspaper to flak for him and it gets shut down it’s some sort of black mark but not so much.

yes, silencing the opposition by suppressing protests and shuttering the press is a sign of a really wonderful leader.

325 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:52:17pm

re: #320 Feline Fearless Leader

Fixed it. Brain farted.

326 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:52:46pm

re: #302 Kragar (Antichrist )

The politics of Greek city states is your justification for excusing dictatorships in the modern age?

Venezuela was never a dictatorship under Chavez - why do you guys keep saying that? The guy won the popular vote over and over.

327 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:53:32pm

re: #324 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

yes, silencing the opposition by suppressing protests and shuttering the press is a sign of a really wonderful leader.

Oligarchs as opposition? = again Venezuela is not the USA - it was an emerging Banana Republic.

328 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:53:42pm

re: #324 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

yes, silencing the opposition by suppressing protests and shuttering the press is a sign of a really wonderful leader.

hey

You didn’t hear anyone complain, right!?!?
/

329 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:54:21pm

re: #326 Destro

Venezuela was never a dictatorship under Chavez - why do you guys keep saying that? The guy won the popular vote over and over.

So did Saddam!

330 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:54:55pm

re: #319 Destro

Chavez was not a tyrant. He stood and won elections. He took some mild actions against organs of the opposition against him run by the old guard oligarchs. I guess if a oligarch can fund a newspaper to flak for him and it gets shut down it’s some sort of black mark but not so much.

One of the telltale signs of a dictatorship is the suppression of a free press. Which happened under Chavez’ rule. Opposition print and broadcast media was almost completely shut down, in many cases violently.

331 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:55:15pm

re: #326 Destro

Venezuela was never a dictatorship under Chavez - why do you guys keep saying that? The guy won the popular vote over and over.

He won the popular vote then ruled by dictate ignoring or going around the other parts of venezuelan gov’t.

Like I said earlier. He did some good things for the poor but the ends don’t justify the means.

332 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:55:20pm

re: #326 Destro

Venezuela was never a dictatorship under Chavez - why do you guys keep saying that? The guy won the popular vote over and over.

Because no one in Central America ever rigged an election.

333 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:55:30pm

re: #329 sattv4u2

So did Saddam!

Not a good comparison at all. Saddamn’s elections were completely corrupt. Chavez’s had a lot of problems and his anti-press actions problematized it but there wasn’t anything like systematized corruption under Saddam.

334 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:55:31pm

re: #325 lawhawk

Fixed it. Brain farted.

Now you’re going to have to change your hat!

336 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:56:16pm

re: #330 RadicalModerate

One of the telltale signs of a dictatorship is the suppression of a free press. Which happened under Chavez’ rule. Opposition print and broadcast media was almost completely shut down, in many cases violently.

Ahh,,, just a “mild action” !!

/

337 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:56:18pm

re: #332 Kragar (Antichrist )

Because no one in Central America ever rigged an election.

Even those against Chavez do not dispute he won the popular vote.

338 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:56:25pm

re: #326 Destro

Venezuela was never a dictatorship under Chavez - why do you guys keep saying that? The guy won the popular vote over and over.

Winning a an election when you are the only political party running (because all opposition parties were made illegal) isn’t exactly what I would call a “popular vote”.

339 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:57:19pm

Yeah, Ahmadinejad is another famous politician that won the popular vote.

340 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:57:28pm

re: #333 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Have they found your neighbor yet?

341 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:57:36pm

You know who else won the popular vote?

342 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:57:36pm

re: #323 HappyWarrior

My grandparents survived 1936 flood. My grandmother was fortunate since they lived in Franklin. Grandfather’s family lived more downtown so they got hit dead on.

My grandfather was in the hospital in Johnstown for an operation and got caught in the 1977 flood. My sister had the T-shirt with the “Floods: 3 - Johnstown - 0” scoreboard on it.

And for years we’d visit my aunts who lived in the area. One in Eastmont, one in Southmont, and one over near Geistown.

343 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:57:55pm

Castro also keeps getting re-elected.

//

344 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:58:30pm

The Chavez Delusion

345 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:59:08pm

re: #341 Gus

You know who else won the popular vote?

Eileen Hallahan

in 11th grade, she was voted Most Likely to Conceive, which she did in the summer of the next year !!!

346 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 12:59:43pm

re: #338 RadicalModerate

Winning a an election when you are the only political party running (because all opposition parties were made illegal) isn’t exactly what I would call a “popular vote”.

That never happened.

Where do you guys go for this made up story on Venezuela?

347 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:00:03pm

Chavez wasn’t a benevolent dictor, but it would be totally okay if he was ///

348 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:00:11pm
349 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:00:14pm

re: #340 sattv4u2

Have they found your neighbor yet?

No that I know, but I’m hardly the first call.

You left me hanging in the other thread, too— you seem to think I should have called the police first rather than the apartment managers. Can you explain that to me so I can take it into account next time something like this happens?

350 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:00:25pm

re: #341 Gus

You know who else won the popular vote?

Steve?

351 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:00:25pm

re: #341 Gus

You know who else won the popular vote?

Not that guy in 1932 Berlin, that’s for sure.

352 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:00:29pm

re: #342 Feline Fearless Leader

My grandfather was in the hospital in Johnstown for an operation and got caught in the 1977 flood. My sister had the T-shirt with the “Floods: 3 - Johnstown - 0” scoreboard on it.

And for years we’d visit my aunts who lived in the area. One in Eastmont, one in Southmont, and one over near Geistown.

Yeah my great grandmother was stranded during the ‘36 one and she was either pregnant or with my great aunt who would have been less than a year old at the time. The only flood that none of my family members were in was the original one in 1889. But in a funny irony, that’s the birthyear of my great grandfather.

353 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:01:08pm

re: #346 Destro

That never happened.

Where do you guys go for this made up story on Venezuela?

Probably the same place you go for yours, just getting it out of different bins.

354 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:02:06pm

re: #109 Kragar (Antichrist )

Herp de Derp.

Eighth grade must have been the worst 3 years of his life

355 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:03:59pm

re: #349 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

No that I know, but I’m hardly the first call.

You left me hanging in the other thread, too— you seem to think I should have called the police first rather than the apartment managers. Can you explain that to me so I can take it into account next time something like this happens?

Sure
Circumstances,,,iirc elderly sickly individual not seen for days. Cops could have started checking hospitals et al while they sent someone over to check,, IF there is/was foul play involved they wouldn’t want the landlord/ building super/ you touching things

Yes, that’s IF foul play is pretty far fetched, but even without they may have seen something in the apt that the landlord/ building super/ you wouldn’t notice

356 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:04:29pm

re: #352 HappyWarrior

Yeah my great grandmother was stranded during the ‘36 one and she was either pregnant or with my great aunt who would have been less than a year old at the time. The only flood that none of my family members were in was the original one in 1889. But in a funny irony, that’s the birthyear of my great grandfather.

Hmm, for the 1889 flood I expect my ancestors on that side of the family would have been farming or involved in mercantile trades up around Portage or Blue Knob.

357 Destro  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:05:00pm

re: #353 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Probably the same place you go for yours, just getting it out of different bins.

We agree on some parts.

Chavez never was a dictator. There were free elections. There was no vote rigging and political parties were not banned.

He was not a tyrant.

He may have overstayed his time as president also and he was iron handed (FDR comes to mind in how he tried to jigger the system) was clueless about how to funnel the oil wealth to the people - even though everyone running for office in Venezuela now agrees that Chavez’s social reforms should have happened a long time ago.

358 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:06:49pm

re: #355 sattv4u2

Sure
Circumstances,,,iirc elderly sickly individual not seen for days. Cops could have started checking hospitals et al at while they sent someone over to check,, IF there is/was foul play involved they wouldn’t want the landlord/ building super/ you touching things

Yes, that’s IF foul play is pretty far fetched, but even without they may have seen something in the apt that the landlord/ building super/ you wouldn’t notice

The cops would have had to go get the super to let them in, the cops would have, since it was a non-emergency call, shown up in a few hours, and things would get started later. The likelihood of us fatally contaminating a crime scene isn’t at all likely enough to even try to account for, dude. That’s just silly.

I’m glad I didn’t waste some cops time in coming out to the apartment.

359 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:07:23pm

re: #357 Destro

was clueless about how to funnel the oil wealth to the people

he didn’t seem to have a problem “funnel”ing it to himself!

360 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:07:42pm
361 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:08:25pm

re: #357 Destro

He may have overstayed his time as president also and he was iron handed (FDR comes to mind in how he tried to jigger the system)

Oh for fuck’s sake, you’re just laughable.

362 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:08:59pm

re: #358 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’m glad I didn’t waste some cops time in coming out to the apartment.

But the call was made to them later, so that time was “wasted” to end up right where I proposed starting!

And as I stated, prior to the cops physically showing up they would have started checking area hospitals

363 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:09:03pm

re: #356 Feline Fearless Leader

Hmm, for the 1889 flood I expect my ancestors on that side of the family would have been farming or involved in mercantile trades up around Portage or Blue Knob.

When did the mines and steel mills open up anyhow? That’s what all the men on that side of the family did for work from the time they got here in the early 1900’s. Really need to read McCullough’s book on the flood. I really liked going there when I was a kid. All the relatives we visited have since passed on unfortunately.

364 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:09:18pm

re: #356 Feline Fearless Leader

Hmm, for the 1889 flood I expect my ancestors on that side of the family would have been farming or involved in mercantile trades up around Portage or Blue Knob.

I had ancestors starving in Sicily and mainland Italy then.

Good times. /////////////////

365 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:09:36pm

re: #42 Sol Berdinowitz

In any case. from the Stalker Site:

“Although Charles has yet to…opine, the silence implies complicit agreement with his little green sycophants (at least according to Johnson’s own Rules For Blogging).”

Now for my 2 centavos:

Chavez would not have stayed in power without our demand for his nation’s resources. We create these figures, we have to learn to live with them or do without their oil.

I’m not sure why this got so many downdings.

366 aagcobb  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:10:05pm

re: #294 Destro

People forget because American education is lacking these days that Athens had to go through a benevolent tyranny that lifted their people out of poverty before democracy could take hold.

Great, if only Chavez had lifted his people out of poverty instead of wrecking the economy.

367 chadu  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:10:32pm

re: #357 Destro

(FDR comes to mind in how he tried to jigger the system)

Were you always mad, or did you grow into it?

368 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:11:24pm

re: #365 b_sharp

I’m not sure why this got so many downdings.

Inquiring minds want to know!! Perhaps for cutting/ pasting something from the stalker site??
Only the downdingers can answer though!

369 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:11:26pm

re: #362 sattv4u2

I’m glad I didn’t waste some cops time in coming out to the apartment.

But the call was made to them later, so that time was “wasted” to end up right where I proposed starting!

Nope. They started filling out a missing person’s report based on the apartment manager calling the next of kin and confirming they hadn’t heard from them. The cops didn’t have to come out here, the apartment manager went to them.

And as I stated, prior to the cops physically showing up they would have started checking area hospitals

No, they wouldn’t. I don’t know why you think they would. Can you explain? You seriously think you can get cops doing a complex search of all hospital admissions by calling and telling them you haven’t seen your neighbor in a few days? Really?

370 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:11:42pm

re: #282 The Ghost of a Flea

Corsendonk FTW!!!

371 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:12:07pm

re: #365 b_sharp

I’m not sure why this got so many downdings.

Because it’s citing something from the stalker site, which a lot of people here like to ignore and get annoyed when it’s brought up, because they feel it just gives the freaks over there a reason to live.

372 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:12:54pm

re: #369 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

No, they wouldn’t. I don’t know why you think they would. Can you explain?

Past experience,, twice

Once in Boston
Once when I was on an extended stay in New Jersey

373 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:13:28pm

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - Hugo Chavez - Neda Agha-Soltan

The two “democratically elected leaders.” Best of friends and allies.

Remember Neda Agha-Soltan.

374 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:16:14pm

re: #373 Gus

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - Hugo Chavez - Neda Agha-Soltan

The two “democratically elected leaders.” Best of friends and allies.

Remember Neda Agha-Soltan.

Just another of those (in Destro’s words) just a “mild action”

375 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:17:05pm

re: #372 sattv4u2

No, they wouldn’t. I don’t know why you think they would. Can you explain?

Past experience,, twice

Once in Boston
Once when I was on an extended stay in New Jersey

As soon as you called the cops to report that you hadn’t seen a neighbor in a few days, they began to check all the admissions at hospitals in the area? Really?

What good does that do, by the way? Calling the hospitals?

376 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:17:08pm

re: #363 HappyWarrior

When did the mines and steel mills open up anyhow? That’s what all the men on that side of the family did for work from the time they got here in the early 1900’s. Really need to read McCullough’s book on the flood. I really liked going there when I was a kid. All the relatives we visited have since passed on unfortunately.

Canal boats (1830) and then right into railroads (1850s). Was producing iron and steel by 1860 (Cambria Iron Works). So presumably the coal industry was kicking in at the same time to fuel that.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Portage was established in 1890. Named after the Portage Railway which initially moved canal boats over the ridges of the area. One of the inclined planes for that is located nearby. Pretty much heavily based on coal mining. Though my father’s ancestors in the area go back into the late 1700s and came in as frontier dirt farmers. Been in a whole bunch of cemeteries up in that area and you see the same names a lot on the gravestones in the older sections.

377 Gus  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:17:17pm

re: #374 sattv4u2

Just another of those (in Destro’s words) just a “mild action”

But, but, Amerika kills people too!! //

378 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:19:20pm

re: #376 Feline Fearless Leader

Canal boats (1830) and then right into railroads (1850s). Was producing iron and steel by 1860 (Cambria Iron Works). So presumably the coal industry was kicking in at the same time to fuel that.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Portage was established in 1890. Named after the Portage Railway which initially moved canal boats over the ridges of the area. One of the inclined planes for that is located nearby. Pretty much heavily based on coal mining. Though my father’s ancestors in the area go back into the late 1700s and came in as frontier dirt farmers. Been in a whole bunch of cemeteries up in that area and you see the same names a lot on the gravestones in the older sections.

Thanks. Always cool to find out about the area where you come from. I wouldn’t want to live in Johnstown but I do have an appreciation for the whole Southwestern Pennsylvania region since it was my family’s first home when they emigrated to the US.

379 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:19:31pm

re: #357 Destro

We agree on some parts.

Chavez never was a dictator. There were free elections. There was no vote rigging and political parties were not banned.

He was not a tyrant.

He may have overstayed his time as president also and he was iron handed (FDR comes to mind in how he tried to jigger the system) was clueless about how to funnel the oil wealth to the people - even though everyone running for office in Venezuela now agrees that Chavez’s social reforms should have happened a long time ago.

FDR? Compared to some of the other political machines during that period of time, Roosevelt was an absolute saint. In fact, during the early 1930s, one of his most vocal opponents came from his political left, who stated that New Deal reforms didn’t go nearly far enough. And coincidentally is the same person as I mentioned upthread on post #310.

380 dragonath  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:20:53pm

re: #379 RadicalModerate

THAT’S the comparison I was thinking of.

381 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:21:07pm

re: #379 RadicalModerate

Chavez never made opposition parties illegal, by the way.

382 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:23:08pm

re: #381 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Chavez never made opposition parties illegal, by the way.

Not on paper, that much is true. He just consolidated his power base to a level that made any viable opposition completely impossible.

383 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:25:04pm

re: #357 Destro

We agree on some parts.

Chavez never was a dictator. There were free elections. There was no vote rigging and political parties were not banned.

He was not a tyrant.

He may have overstayed his time as president also and was clueless about how to funnel the oil wealth to the people - even though everyone running for office in Venezuela now agrees that Chavez’s social reforms should have happened a long time ago.

Mobius Pretzel!

384 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:29:06pm

re: #378 HappyWarrior

Thanks. Always cool to find out about the area where you come from. I wouldn’t want to live in Johnstown but I do have an appreciation for the whole Southwestern Pennsylvania region since it was my family’s first home when they emigrated to the US.

In a number of ways it’s a goofy/interesting area. An intriguing mix of rural and industrial areas and a very broad ethnic mix due to the steel and coal industries. Which was very cross-tolerant up to a point, and then gets horribly bigoted.*

You get out away from Johnstown and it’s little former coal towns and farming communities scattered around the hollows and ridges. I always thought “Bob’s Creek” was a local nickname for a watercourse my father trout fished on - but it turns out that it’s the creek’s actual name. And there is this odd little memorial along it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

* - Lots of immigrants into the area up to the early 1900s, and then it sort of saturated and cut-off. So the Germans, Irish, and Eastern Europeans sort of assimilated with each other, and after that they got stubborn and conservative.

385 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:32:09pm

re: #384 Feline Fearless Leader

In a number of ways it’s a goofy/interesting area. An intriguing mix of rural and industrial areas and a very broad ethnic mix due to the steel and coal industries. Which was very cross-tolerant up to a point, and then gets horribly bigoted.*

You get out away from Johnstown and it’s little former coal towns and farming communities scattered around the hollows and ridges. I always thought “Bob’s Creek” was a local nickname for a watercourse my father trout fished on - but it turns out that it’s the creek’s actual name. And there is this odd little memorial along it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

* - Lots of immigrants into the area up to the early 1900s, and then it sort of saturated and cut-off. So the Germans, Irish, and Eastern Europeans sort of assimilated with each other, and after that they got stubborn and conservative.

Ha I am the product of assimilation between Germans, Irish, and Eastern Europeans. Really, one could call Northern Va an extension of the region. Lots and lots of transplants down here.

386 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:35:30pm

re: #368 sattv4u2

Inquiring minds want to know!! Perhaps for cutting/ pasting something from the stalker site??
Only the downdingers can answer though!

Yep, and I specified so in a later comment. I was first, too! (I think.)

387 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:38:13pm

re: #386 wrenchwench

Yep, and I specified so in a later comment. I was first, too! (I think.)

Sorry. Didn’t scroll down to see the explanation
Synopsis (or #)?

388 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:38:38pm

re: #380 dragonath

THAT’S the comparison I was thinking of. Hugo Chavez was Huey Long, writ large.

Early Chavez, yeah, before he embraced guys like Castro and Ahmadinejad.

Also, for all of Long’s faults, even though he had some Populist/Socialist leanings, he was very much against communism. He did some very admirable things during the Great Depression years, notably in building up the state public education system as well as bringing the state highway system up to a much higher level than was present in most of the American South during that period. Finally, he was an avowed enemy of the racist bloc that controlled much of the state’s politics - taking liberal positions that were unheard of for another 25-30 years in the heart of “Dixie”. Long’s legacy was, in my opinion much, much more admirable than he was given credit for.

389 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:41:35pm

re: #388 RadicalModerate

Early Chavez, yeah, before he embraced guys like Castro and Ahmadinejad.

Also, for all of Long’s faults, even though he had some Populist/Socialist leanings, he was very much against communism. He did some very admirable things during the Great Depression years, notably in building up the state public education system as well as bringing the state highway system up to a much higher level than was present in most of the American South during that period. Finally, he was an avowed enemy of the racist bloc that controlled much of the state’s politics - taking liberal positions that were unheard of for another 25-30 years in the heart of “Dixie”. Long’s legacy was, in my opinion much, much more admirable than he was given credit for.

He’s complicated. I’d love to read more about Long. There were definitely worse “bosses” than him. Long > Virgina’s Harry Byrd.

390 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 1:46:18pm

re: #389 HappyWarrior

He’s complicated. I’d love to read more about Long. There were definitely worse “bosses” than him. Long > Virgina’s Harry Byrd.

I listened to All the Kings Men last month (I think). It was very good. Did a good job of showing “paved with good intentions” part that takes so many leaders down.

Also shows the need for Populist Representation.

391 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 2:04:54pm

re: #341 Gus

You know who else won the popular vote?

Al Gore?

392 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 4:14:01pm

re: #106 FemNaziBitch

Somehow, a while back with my first iPhone, I got a LGF logo on my phone that takes me to the LGF logon screen when I hit it.

I think it’s just a bookmark on Safari.

The screen is too small for me, so I never use it —besides I have macbook now, so I take it with when travelling, which was the main reason I was using the internet on my phone. I hate hotel TV.

I’ve read LGF on all the iPhone iterations except for iPhone 5. It’s really nice that now not all video on LGF is Flash format.

When using an iPhone to read LGF:

1. Use Google to read LGF.
2. Use the Notes app to compose replies, then Cut & Paste into the LGF reply field.
3. Forget about using Preview as the iPhone can’t scroll in the foreground in Preview mode.
4. Open embeded links in a different page.

393 biorabbi  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 5:43:42pm

Hugo Chavez used anti-semitism again, again, and again, conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism in speeches, quips, attacks on Jewish Institutions, publishing lists of Jewish businessmen, constant vilification of Israel, conflating Israel with Nazi German in her treatment of Palestinians. Then again, paranoid individuals and groups often gravitate to conspiracy theories(often involving Jews) to justify their actions. If you look at David Duke, Hugo Chavez, and Glen Beck… all truly believe weird conspiracy theories to explain their reality. I would also point out that we still do not know the exact type of his cancer or exactly how it was treated. He was too paranoid to be treated in the US at say the Mayo Clinic. While Cuba provides good health care for the poor and lower middle class with an just system, it is, for obvious reasons, ill suited to treat rare cancers using the latest technology. Even in death, Chavez’ successor points toward murky conspiracy mongering, using the case of Arafat! as an example of said criminal behavior. As a physician, I must have missed the memo about zionist transmission of cancer from man to man as being in the realm of the possible. Silly me.

394 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 8:37:19pm

re: #337 Destro

Even those against Chavez do not dispute he won the popular vote.

Actually Chavez and company set up a gerrymander to protect power. Chavez may have ‘won’ the popular vote, though I’m willing to bet that given freedom of the press he wouldn’t have, but his party couldn’t get a majority of the vote.

From wiki:

Prior to the September 26, 2010 legislative elections, gerrymandering took place via an addendum to the electoral law by the National Assembly of Venezuela . In the subsequent election, Hugo Chávez’s political party, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela drew 48% of the votes overall, while the opposition parties (the Democratic Unity Roundtable and the Fatherland for All parties) drew 52% of the votes. However, due to the re-allocation of electoral legislative districts prior to the election, Chávez’s United Socialist Party of Venezuela was awarded over 60% of the spots in the National Assembly (98 deputies), while only 67 deputies were elected for the two opposition parties combined.

395 John Vreeland  Wed, Mar 6, 2013 10:37:32pm

Chavez embraced Castro fairly early. It was the Castro brothers who instructed him to concentrate on the poor. His creation of medical clinics in underserved poor areas sprang from that, and was one of the few real improvements in their lives. Otherwise their lives seem worse off. Good luck finding a quart of milk in Caracas.

396 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 10:46:10am

re: #1 Eclectic Cyborg

So basically Chavez did just about everything Obama is constantly ACCUSED of doing by the right wingers?

Was actually since, he just died recently.

397 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 10:50:21am

Charles Johnson,

I’m glad Zack Beauchamp wrote this. Too many people on the right who have a wide audience like Rush Limbaugh believe that mainstream liberals support dictators like Hugo Chavez.


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