Eric Holder Responds to Rand Paul’s 13-Hour Rant With One Word: “No”

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Attorney General Eric Holder has responded to Sen. Rand Paul’s 13-hour filibuster filled with paranoid conspiracy theories about drones killing American citizens on US soil, with a single word.

Dear Senator Paul:

It has come to my attention that you have now asked an additional question: “Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?” The answer to that question is no.

Sincerely,
Eric H. Holder, Jr.

UPDATE at 3/7/13 11:47:01 am

And now Sen. Paul is happy.

Paul said Thursday afternoon that he’s happy with the response and that he urges the Senate to proceed to a vote on Brennan’s nomination.

This is going to give the wingnuts who’ve been yelling that they “stand with Rand” a serious case of cognitive whiplash.

Jump to bottom

219 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:43:33am

NUTS!

2 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:43:34am

Well that settles it— for everyone but right-wing lunatics.

3 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:45:00am

Game. Set. Match.

Ouch.

4 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:45:20am

Can’t wait to see the wingnuts spin this.

“But when Patriots try to take our country back from the tyrant, what happens then?”

5 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:45:30am

And Rand responds like a child:

Obama Administration Responds To Rand Paul On Drones

Appearing on CNN on Thursday afternoon, Paul declared that Holder’s response was satisfactory and that he would allow a vote on Brennan’s nomination.

“I’m quite happy with the answer and I’m disappointed it took a month and a half and a root canal to get it,” Paul said.

This wasn’t about having a very badly needed discussion the usage of armed drones, it was Rand grandstanding for no other reason than because he saw an opportunity and took it.

6 victor27  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:46:35am

“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”

Attorney General Holder’s response was perfection.

7 Political Atheist  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:46:36am

One question down, quite a few still to go.

What happens with Posse Comitatus if the President uses an armed drone in US airspace at all? Or an unarmed US Air Force drone?

8 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:47:24am

Terry Jones bots totally spamming Twitter with announcement that Terry plans to visit gay club. He really is desperate to meet hot dudes.

9 Political Atheist  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:47:29am

re: #5 Targetpractice

It is time to separate the arguments from the individual.

10 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:48:04am

Sen. Paul is happy.

Paul said Thursday afternoon that he’s happy with the response and that he urges the Senate to proceed to a vote on Brennan’s nomination.

This is going to give the wingnuts who’ve been yelling that they “stand with Rand” a serious case of cognitive whiplash.

11 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:48:38am

re: #7 Political Atheist

One question down, quite a few still to go.

What happens with Posse Comitatus if the President uses an armed drone in US airspace at all? Or an unarmed US Air Force drone?

Same thing that would occur if he used an armed plane or any other military air asset.

12 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:49:28am

re: #7 Political Atheist

One question down, quite a few still to go.

What happens with Posse Comitatus if the President uses an armed drone in US airspace at all? Or an unarmed US Air Force drone?

Not sure there’s much left of Posse Comitatus after the Patriot Acts. It was always easy enough to work around, as in sending armor to Waco.

13 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:49:54am

… and in case that’s not clear, that’s “no” as in “no”

14 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:49:59am

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Yeah yeah, borrowed from Great Orange Satan, whatever. Fits this particular case like a glove.

GOP-faction-chart.png

15 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:50:22am

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Sen. Paul is happy.

This is going to give the wingnuts who’ve been yelling that they “stand with Rand” a serious case of cognitive whiplash.

They’re used to the stab-in-the-back. It’s part of the Martyrdom Syndrome.

16 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:50:33am

re: #9 Political Atheist

It is time to separate the arguments from the individual.

First one has to, as Kragar just pointed out, separate the drone hysteria from any other weapon in the US arsenal. Or rather, we need to revisit the very real question of just what power a president has to execute a “war on terrorism” on US citizens. Spending all our time obsessing over drones distracts from that.

17 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:50:54am

re: #13 engineer cat

… and in case that’s not clear, that’s “no” as in “no”

You’re talking to people who think “Look at how she was dressed” means “Yes”.

18 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:51:50am

re: #7 Political Atheist

One question down, quite a few still to go.

What happens with Posse Comitatus if the President uses an armed drone in US airspace at all? Or an unarmed US Air Force drone?

Did you call me a ‘pu**y communist’?

Youtube Video
19 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:52:04am

re: #17 Kragar (Antichrist )

You’re talking to people who think “Look at how she was dressed” means “Yes”.

Is a slutty slut dressed like a slut still allowed to blow away a rapist with an AR-15?

20 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:53:30am

re: #19 Vicious Babushka

Is a slutty slut dressed like a slut still allowed to blow away a rapist with an AR-15?

I’d ask Rand Paul, but I’ve got plans this weekend.

21 Political Atheist  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:54:27am

re: #18 Dr. Matt

Did you call me a ‘pu**y communist’?

[Embedded content]

HA ha ha ha! Good clip.

22 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:55:17am

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Sen. Paul is happy.

This is going to give the wingnuts who’ve been yelling that they “stand with Rand” a serious case of cognitive whiplash.

It will be funny read tweets accusing Rand Paul of selling out though.

23 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:57:31am

re: #14 erik_t

GOP-faction-chart.png

really excellent, and sorely needed by europeans, historians from future centuries, and anybody else confused by inexplicable sectarian differences between irrational fanatics

someday i hope these categories will be as obscure as albigensians, wycliffites, arians, and manicheans

24 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:57:32am

re: #7 Political Atheist

One question down, quite a few still to go.

What happens with Posse Comitatus if the President uses an armed drone in US airspace at all? Or an unarmed US Air Force drone?

I don’t think it makes any difference if it’s a drone or manned aircraft the rules would still be the same. I’ve been stretching to think of some extraordinary circumstance that might warrant the use of military fire power. About the only thing I can think of is supposing a 9-11 type scenario of hijacked airliners used as flying bombs. As I recall the Feds entertained the idea of possibly downing aircraft to avoid the greater death toll of them reaching their targets. It’s possible and reasonable. It doesn’t make any difference if the missile comes from a piloted or unmanned aircraft.

25 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:58:03am
26 blueraven  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:58:44am

re: #10 Charles Johnson

Sen. Paul is happy.

This is going to give the wingnuts who’ve been yelling that they “stand with Rand” a serious case of cognitive whiplash.

Holder had already responded to Paul’s first request regarding possible drone strikes on American soil. It was a bit more nuanced, stating that it would have to be an extraordinary circumstance such as a Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Paul’s example of an American sitting innocently in a cafe and being taken out by a drone is a ridiculous straw man argument.

27 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:58:45am
28 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:59:01am

re: #21 Political Atheist

HA ha ha ha! Good clip.

Sadly, that was the first thing that came to mind when I read your post.

29 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 11:59:23am

re: #25 Gus

With apologies to J.M Synge.
Oh my grief, I’ve lost him surely. I’ve lost the only Playboy of the Western World.

30 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:00:58pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

I don’t think it makes any difference if it’s a drone or manned aircraft the rules would still be the same. I’ve been stretching to think of some extraordinary circumstance that might warrant the use of military fire power. About the only thing I can think of is supposing a 9-11 type scenario of hijacked airliners used as flying bombs. As I recall the Feds entertained the idea of possibly downing aircraft to avoid the greater death toll of them reaching their targets. It’s possible and reasonable. It doesn’t make any difference if the missile comes from a piloted or unmanned aircraft.

If they had the information and the opportunity, the airliners would have come down. Information flow was not fast enough to give the needed certainty, and to get enough armed interceptors airborne. There was discussion of ramming the Capitol-bound flight IIRC.

31 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:01:44pm

@spider1a has to be a Fake Quote spamming bot because it hasn’t told me to FOADIADWAGIRW*

*Fuck Off And Die In A Ditch With A Government Issued Rape Whistle.

32 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:02:46pm

drones

nothing stopping anybody from making their own at home with easily available components!

33 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:03:28pm

re: #30 Decatur Deb

If they had the information and the opportunity, the airliners would have come down. Information flow was not fast enough to give the needed certainty, and to get enough armed interceptors airborne. There was discussion of ramming the Capitol-bound flight IIRC.

Here:

[Link: www.nbcnews.com…]

34 Political Atheist  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:04:02pm

re: #28 Dr. Matt

Well then you have just trivialised a discussion that deserves more serious attention. ;-(

35 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:06:01pm
36 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:06:57pm

Drones Tickle

37 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:08:32pm

Schlafly: ‘We Need to Train the Men’ to ‘Stand Up to the Feminists’

Eagle Forum founder Phyllis Schlafly spoke earlier this week to Sandy Rios of the American Family Association about the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act, which Schlafly called a “terrible” law that “would have been an excellent place to cut” spending. She lamented that “Republicans are just scared by the feminists” when “they ought to stand up and show how really vicious they are.”

OK, I understand now.

“Sit your ass down and knock off your Dark Age crap, Phyllis. Everyone here is tired of your tired horseshit.”

Like that?

38 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:08:41pm

re: #34 Political Atheist

Well then you have just trivialised a discussion that deserves more serious attention. ;-(

Yes, I have. I can think of about 1000 things more pressing and of real concern than drones.

#36

Drones Tickle

39 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:08:51pm

IT’S NOT SLANDER IF IT’S TRUE.

40 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:10:24pm

re: #39 Vicious Babushka

IT’S NOT SLANDER IF IT’S TRUE.

“I called you an idiot because you actually seem to believe the horseshit you’re spouting.”

41 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:12:01pm

re: #39 Vicious Babushka

Libtards have no argument so they try

thank you and please continue to fulminate

42 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:12:11pm

DERP

43 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:12:47pm

BRYAN HAS A GAY CRUSH ON RAND PAUL.

44 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:14:02pm

re: #33 Decatur Deb

Here:

[Link: www.nbcnews.com…]

“We wouldn’t be shooting it down. We would be ramming the aircraft, because we didn’t have weapons on board to be able to shoot the airplane down,” Penney told C-SPAN.

I think “ramming” is a little misleading. There’s a way to flip a plane into a dive by getting under one wing then just flip it over. No need to destroy the fighter jet too.

45 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:14:06pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Ask her about how her lawsuit against Breitbart is going.

46 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:14:06pm

The #StandWithRand kooks already have their talking point:

47 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:14:47pm

re: #43 Vicious Babushka

BRYAN HAS A GAY CRUSH ON RAND PAUL.

I wonder how Bryan feels about Paul wanting to cut all aid to Israel.

48 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:14:49pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

The #StandWithRand kooks already have their talking point:

I think [Link: wwwwakeupamericans…] is a white supremacist site.

49 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:15:04pm

re: #47 Kragar (Antichrist )

I wonder how Bryan feels about Paul wanting to cut all aid to Israel.

Shouldn’t somebody tell him?

50 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:15:19pm

re: #25 Gus

Ben Carson Bob Woodward Rand Paul Lou Dobbs for President!

They’re falling fast.
/

51 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:15:41pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

The #StandWithRand kooks already have their talking point:

Yeah, he forced them to. That is exactly what happened there. No doubt about it.

Fucktards.

52 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:16:46pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

I think “ramming” is a little misleading. There’s a way to flip a plane into a dive by getting under one wing then just flip it over. No need to destroy the fighter jet too.

The interceptors could have hoped for that, but the relative masses were very much against it. The important fact is that the decision could be made at all up and down the AF chain of command. Notional RoEs were most likely in place.

53 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:16:49pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

I think “ramming” is a little misleading. There’s a way to flip a plane into a dive by getting under one wing then just flip it over. No need to destroy the fighter jet too.

You’d have to take in to account that the terrorists might regain control of the craft and slam their wing into the fighter.
It’s a very risky maneuver.

54 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:17:47pm

re: #48 Vicious Babushka

I think this one is a different site. Looks like just a run of the mill wingnut blog.

55 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:19:21pm

Fischer: Just Like Judas, Liberals and Obama Don’t Care About the Poor

As he normally does, Bryan Fischer began his program today with a reading and discussion from the Bible; in this case the story of Jesus being anointed at Bethany in Matthew 26:

Now when Jesus was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, a woman came up to him with an alabaster flask of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he reclined at table. And when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, “Why this waste? For this could have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor.”

But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me. In pouring this ointment on my body, she has done it to prepare me for burial. Truly, I say to you, wherever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her.”

Even though the passage says “the disciples” were indignant, Fischer asserted that is was really only Judas who was upset because he was greedy and didn’t care about the poor … just like President Obama and liberals today:

Once again, Fischer awes us all with his patented Reality Inversion Technology.

56 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:21:08pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I think this one is a different site. Looks like just a run of the mill wingnut blog.

Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. There are some sites that regularly get linked on TGDN which are full-out white supremacist sites. Don’t want to name them here b/c of Google spiders.

57 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:21:31pm

If all the white men were actually doing something to facilitate employment and stimulate the economy they might have some credability.

58 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:22:50pm

Link is to Holder’s letter to Rand.

59 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:23:16pm

repost from[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

NPR had a really good segment on “On Point” the other day about drones. The ones law enforcement uses are so far removed from what the military has available it’s ridiculous to fear them. One officer called in and said that with all the cost-cutting in police departments these days, he didn’t foresee many of them shelling out the initial cost for the equipment in the forseeable future.

What is clear is that our legislatures have to decide what boundrys they are going to impose. It’s a new area of law, but they are useful and cost-effective tools we should not deny law enforcement.

60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:25:21pm

re: #39 Vicious Babushka

IT’S NOT SLANDER IF IT’S TRUE.

I’m a CONSPIRACY THEORIST for presenting documented facts.

Well, I’m with them on that point. It’s a slander to claim they’ve been presenting documented facts.

61 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:25:37pm

re: #55 Kragar (Antichrist )

Fischer’s nonsensical Biblical distortion knows no bounds.

62 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:25:40pm

re: #19 Vicious Babushka

Is a slutty slut dressed like a slut still allowed to blow away a rapist with an AR-15?

Only if she is white, otherwise she is a gang banger or a illegal person

63 RadicalModerate  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:26:30pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I think this one is a different site. Looks like just a run of the mill wingnut blog.

“Wakeupamericans” has Robert Stacy McCain’s site as a preferred link.

64 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:26:46pm

re: #55 Kragar (Antichrist )

Fischer: Just Like Judas, Liberals and Obama Don’t Care About the Poor

Once again, Fischer awes us all with his patented Reality Inversion Technology.

And Fischer cares about the poor by spewing Ayn Rand crap?

65 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:27:44pm

re: #57 FemNaziBitch

If all the white men were actually doing something to facilitate employment and stimulate the economy they might have some credability.

They don’t think they have to do that which frankly is part of the problem. But they do think they have business in your morality.

66 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:28:31pm

re: #64 FriendsofHummus

And Fischer cares about the poor by spewing Ayn Rand crap?

Expanding healthcare and welfare hurts the poor by not forcing them to actually work.
///

67 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:28:41pm

re: #64 FriendsofHummus

And Fischer cares about the poor by spewing Ayn Rand crap?

Saves their souls while he picks their pockets. Seems fair.

68 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:28:51pm

re: #59 FemNaziBitch

Drones may prove cost effective as a law enforcement tool in some situations since they’d be cheaper to own/operate versus the helicopters that larger departments around the nation have. Problem is that the drones can’t do SAR and quickly transport officers to remote locations - that’s a job that helicopters are quite capable of doing.

So, that actually works against cost effectiveness in larger departments - departments may end up with both helicopters and drones, with the requisite staffing and gear to keep both going and choose to use drones on some missions saving helicopters for SAR missions.

But the lower cost of drones may open the door to letting smaller departments to get the gear to expand the tools at their disposal for crowd control, tracking criminals (think high speed chases), etc.

69 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:29:36pm

re: #64 FriendsofHummus

And Fischer cares about the poor by spewing Ayn Rand crap?

None of the right wing bloggers seem to have any problem with RS McCain’s racism.

70 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:30:09pm
71 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:30:51pm

re: #70 lawhawk

So like Hagel, this was a show.

72 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:31:08pm

re: #70 lawhawk

OUTRAGE!
/

73 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:31:32pm

re: #68 lawhawk

Drones may prove cost effective as a law enforcement tool in some situations since they’d be cheaper to own/operate versus the helicopters that larger departments around the nation have. Problem is that the drones can’t do SAR and quickly transport officers to remote locations - that’s a job that helicopters are quite capable of doing.

So, that actually works against cost effectiveness in larger departments - departments may end up with both helicopters and drones, with the requisite staffing and gear to keep both going and choose to use drones on some missions saving helicopters for SAR missions.

But the lower cost of drones may open the door to letting smaller departments to get the gear to expand the tools at their disposal for crowd control, tracking criminals (think high speed chases), etc.

The officers were very excited about the expanded capabilities for search and rescue that drones provided. An attorney got on and said that laws for “looking in your back yard” were clear in most municipalities and would need approval. At this point, law enforcement is no where near having “big brother” capabilities the paranoids are freaking-out about.

74 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:31:41pm

re: #63 RadicalModerate

“Wakeupamericans” has Robert Stacy McCain’s site as a preferred link.

Sorry… my #69 was a reply to this one.

75 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:31:45pm

re: #68 lawhawk

Drones may prove cost effective as a law enforcement tool in some situations since they’d be cheaper to own/operate versus the helicopters that larger departments around the nation have. Problem is that the drones can’t do SAR and quickly transport officers to remote locations - that’s a job that helicopters are quite capable of doing.

So, that actually works against cost effectiveness in larger departments - departments may end up with both helicopters and drones, with the requisite staffing and gear to keep both going and choose to use drones on some missions saving helicopters for SAR missions.

But the lower cost of drones may open the door to letting smaller departments to get the gear to expand the tools at their disposal for crowd control, tracking criminals (think high speed chases), etc.

The new sheriff of a small Alabama county found that his predecessor had packed away $300K worth of drones DHS had given him. Confusion all around.

(The drones were super-smart, but little more than model airframes with 3 ft wingspans.)

76 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:32:58pm

re: #75 Decatur Deb

The new sheriff of a small Alabama county found that his predecessor had packed away $300K worth of drones DHS had given him. Confusion all around.

(The drones were super-smart, but little more than model airframes with 3 ft wingspans.)

They seem more like remote control toys with limited battery life and cameras for ariel photography of crime scenes than what I think of as “drones”.

77 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:33:08pm

The Earth is on track to to be the hottest it’s been in 11.3 millennia

HA! That can’t be true because the world is only 5 thousand years old!
/

78 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:33:40pm

re: #77 Kragar (Antichrist )

The Earth is on track to to be the hottest it’s been in 11.3 millennia

HA! That can’t be true because the world is only 5 thousand years old!
/

I’m moving North to the land of ice and snow. Wait, I’m in Chicago …

79 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:37:10pm

re: #76 FemNaziBitch

They seem more like remote control toys with limited battery life and cameras for ariel photography of crime scenes than what I think of as “drones”.

Here’s the story. (It was a police chief, not sheriff.) The considerable cost is all in the electronics and software.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

81 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:40:41pm

re: #80 Gus

SPECIAL REPORT: DID US CANCER WEAPON KILL HUGO CHAVEZ?!!!!!!!!

oh geez

82 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:41:01pm

re: #78 FemNaziBitch

I’m moving North to the land of ice and snow

Wet, windy warmth bears down on Iditarod Trail, Southcentral Alaska

With mushers a mere four days into the 41st running of “The Last Great Race,” the weather the rest of the way could prove troublesome, whether it’s the tough-on-dogs warm weather ranging into the mid-30s in the Yukon and Kuskokwim valleys over the next couple of days, or the stronger winds and potential for visibility-destroying blowing snow closer to the Norton Sound coast and the eventual checkpoints of Unalakleet, Shaktoolik and Koyuk.

83 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:41:31pm

re: #80 Gus

SPECIAL REPORT: DID US CANCER WEAPON KILL HUGO CHAVEZ?!!!!!!!!

Yeah, the Israelis let us borrow it after Arafat died.
/

84 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:41:34pm

re: #80 Gus

SPECIAL REPORT: DID US CANCER WEAPON KILL HUGO CHAVEZ?!!!!!!!!

Sheesh.

85 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:41:56pm

re: #82 Kragar (Antichrist )

Wet, windy warmth bears down on Iditarod Trail, Southcentral Alaska

I have friends who are following it. I get the updates on fb and promptly forget what I read.

:0

86 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:42:16pm

Get ready for the gun control debate to hit the nightly news again:

Senate panel passes bill seeking to curb illegal gun purchases

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday backed President Barack Obama’s call to crack down on illegal trafficking of firearms, marking the first votes in Congress on gun-control since a school massacre last year prompted calls for action.

On a largely party-line vote of 11-7, the Democratic-led committee approved a bill to make it a federal crime to engage in “straw purchasing,” or buying of guns on behalf of those who are prohibited from owning them.

“It is designed to prevent criminals from using straw purchasers who can pass a background check and then hand those firearms to criminals,” Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said. The bill imposes a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison.

Republican critics of the bill argued the measure was not needed, saying existing laws were adequate. They also warned it could send someone to jail even if they did not know the ultimate buyer was not permitted to own a gun.

So the GOP spent months chewing Eric Holder a new one over accusations that the administration was either engaging in or approving of straw purchases by drug cartels…but yet don’t think laws that would have allowed the purchasers to be put behind bars for 15 years are necessary.

87 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:42:23pm

re: #81 FemNaziBitch

oh geez

Weaponized Cancer Guns and Drones!

88 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:43:11pm

re: #87 Gus

Weaponized Cancer Guns and Drones!

Japanese tried something like that on China —no?

89 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:43:43pm

I have to go.

Have a great afternoon all!

90 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:45:01pm

re: #86 Targetpractice

Republican critics of the bill argued the measure was not needed, saying existing laws were adequate. They also warned it could send someone to jail even if they did not know the ultimate buyer was not permitted to own a gun.

Would those be the laws the GOP has systematically castrated every chance they’ve gotten?

91 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:45:29pm

re: #88 FemNaziBitch

Japanese tried something like that on China —no?

Plague Bombs in China - Unit 731

92 simoom  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:45:29pm

So apparently Rand is now satisfied with exactly the same response, abridged down to a sentence, that he received originally, and was throwing a tantrum over. “Not engaged in combat” is the obvious uber-caveat here, and it’s essentially the caveat Holder articulated in longer form earlier. This all boils down to the fact that no President is going to give up the option of taking radical action if the country is under attack, particularly in some new and unforeseen fashion.

93 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:46:14pm
94 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:47:11pm

I’ve been a big Patrick Stewart fan for years. Now I’m a bigger one.

Youtube Video

From here.

95 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:48:39pm

re: #90 Kragar (Antichrist )

Would those be the laws the GOP has systematically castrated every chance they’ve gotten?

Not only that, they’re the laws that prosecutors in F&F said they couldn’t use to make cases against the straw purchasers because all the purchaser had to do was say he had no clue that the guy he was buying for couldn’t pass a background check and they’d walk.

96 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:49:03pm

re: #90 Kragar (Antichrist )

Yeah, those are the ones.

97 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:49:13pm

re: #94 wrenchwench

I’ve been a big Patrick Stewart fan for years. Now I’m a bigger one.

[Embedded content]

From here.

Make it so.

98 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:49:42pm

Poll: Majority Of Republicans Disapprove Of Congressional GOP

The poll from Quinnipiac University found that 71 percent of voters nationwide, including 54 percent of Republican voters, disapprove of the job the congressional GOP is doing while only 20 percent of voters overall and 38 percent of Republicans approve.

Democrats in Congress rate low too, but they are more popular than Republicans and in much better standing among their rank-and-file. Thirty-two percent of voters overall said they approve of the job congressional Democrats are doing while 60 percent disapprove. But 64 percent of Democratic voters said they approve of the job their party’s leaders in Congress are doing.

99 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:50:32pm

re: #95 Targetpractice

Wait, so F&F is/was a bunch of nothing-burger partisan crap? /

100 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:50:45pm

re: #97 Targetpractice

Make it so.

“Number One, take over. I have to go Number Two.”

101 blueraven  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:51:14pm

Brennan confirmed by Senate 63-34

102 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:51:15pm

re: #98 Kragar (Antichrist )

Poll: Majority Of Republicans Disapprove Of Congressional GOP

I don’t get voters. They disapprove of Congress but yet they’re okay with the job their leadership is doing. Sounds like a lot of cognitive dissonance.

104 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:52:03pm
105 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:52:25pm

re: #104 lawhawk

Balls.

106 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:52:26pm

re: #98 Kragar (Antichrist )

Poll: Majority Of Republicans Disapprove Of Congressional GOP

Of course, with polls like this, the question of whether they disapprove has less to do with what they’re pushing and more with what they’re not pushing. I know more than a few Democrats who were livid when Reid killed filibuster reform back in January to pursue a “bipartisan” plan that now seems to have crashed and burned in the face of Republican duplicity. And based upon the veins bulging on the foreheads of a few TPers recently, the Republican disapproval probably has a lot to do with their refusal to augur the country entirely into the ground by allowing the government to default/shutdown.

107 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:54:58pm

I just checked to see how they’re taking Holder’s answer over at PJ Media.

They quoted Rand Paul

“This is a major victory for American civil liberties and ensures the protection of our basic Constitutional rights. We have Separation of Powers to protect our rights. That’s what government was organized to do and that’s what the Constitution was put in place to do,” Paul said. “I would like to congratulate my fellow colleagues in both the House and Senate and thank them for joining me in protecting the rights of due process.”

108 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:55:21pm

re: #105 Kragar (Antichrist )

We now return to your regularly scheduled gridlock. Coverage will resume at 9:00AM tomorrow. /

109 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:55:33pm

District suspends police-in-schools program after officer discharges gun

A school district in New York has put a program to put armed officers in schools on hold after a policeman’s handgun went off at Highland High School.

At a Wednesday meeting with parents, Highland Central School District and police officials explained that Officer Sean McCutcheon had been suspended after his Glock .45-caliber pistol “accidentally discharged” in a school hallway at around 1:38 p.m. on Tuesday.

Lloyd Police Department Lt. James Janso said that a suspension was standard procedure while the incident was under investigation. Officials offered no further explanation as to why the gun discharged.

110 iossarian  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:58:40pm

re: #109 Kragar (Antichrist )

District suspends police-in-schools program after officer discharges gun

Fucking hell Americans are stupid.

111 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:59:34pm

re: #109 Kragar (Antichrist )

District suspends police-in-schools program after officer discharges gun

Accidental discharges don’t happen! Guns are perfectly safe in the hands of trained owners! Think of the children!!!!

112 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:00:38pm

Yeah but arming school kids will have great results.

113 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:00:52pm

Poll: Majority Of Republicans Disapprove Of Congressional GOP

they’re not crazy and stupid enuf for the rank n file but the morons figure anything is better than allowing democrats to carry out their nefarious plans of fixing things and helping people

114 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:00:59pm

re: #78 FemNaziBitch

I’m moving North to the land of ice and snow. Wait, I’m in Chicago …

That’s where you end up when the levee breaks as well.
;)

115 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:02:28pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

I remember the most intense “accidents” don’t happen range brief I ever received in the Marines, and how we were promised any accident would be severely dealt with.

That evening, a Lt shot a guy in the butt with a pop up flare.

Oops. Guess how severely that was dealt with?

116 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:03:10pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

110% guaranteed it discharged because “someone” was fucking around with it and failing to treat it like an inherently lethal weapon. 98% guaranteed that “someone” will face no repercussions whatsoever.

117 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:03:32pm

re: #112 FriendsofHummus

Yeah but arming school kids will have great results.

The same kids who can’t be trusted to know the truth about their own bodies are expected to carry guns? Yeah, that will work out fine.

118 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:05:41pm

re: #117 Kragar (Antichrist )

The same kids who can’t be trusted to know the truth about their own bodies are expected to carry guns? Yeah, that will work out fine.

The very same. Logic how the fuck does it work.

119 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:06:18pm

re: #115 Kragar (Antichrist )

I remember the most intense “accidents” don’t happen range brief I ever received in the Marines, and how we were promised any accident would be severely dealt with.

That evening, a Lt shot a guy in the butt with a pop up flare.

Oops. Guess how severely that was dealt with?

Anytime I get told ‘bout how gun accidents are “rare,” I immediately have that video the cop giving a demonstration and proceeding to put a hole in his foot come to mind as a counterpoint. No matter how small the odds supposedly are, you’re talking thousands of guns in schools and around children. All it takes is one “accident” and a child won’t be coming home.

120 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:07:59pm
121 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:09:10pm

The Senate has confirmed John Brennan…

122 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:10:07pm

re: #98 Kragar (Antichrist )

Poll: Majority Of Republicans Disapprove Of Congressional GOP

It matters WHY they disapprove.

Remember the old polls that showed that most people didn’t ObamaCare but a very significant portion of those people didn’t like it because it wasn’t single payer?

A break down of WHY they don’t like it would be more useful. How many don’t like it because it isn’t nutty enough?

123 Political Atheist  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:10:11pm

re: #38 Dr. Matt

Yes, I have. I can think of about 1000 things more pressing and of real concern than drones the expansion of executive powers, warrantless surveillance. and never ending patriot act provisions.

#36

FTFY
At least fixed if you are referring to my point as opposed to some others.

124 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:10:19pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

The Senate has confirmed John Brennan…

Benghazi? Drones?
///

125 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:10:35pm

Other headlines in the world of derp.

US ‘main supplier of drone terrorism’ on the planet

Guess the website without searching.

126 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:10:54pm

Oh, good freaking grief.

Rand Paul: I Decided Against Using Catheter During Filibuster | TPM LiveWire

Asked by Glenn Beck Thursday whether he considered using a catheter during his long filibuster of CIA director nominee John Brennan, Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), who is a doctor, said he decided against it. 

“I did think about it,” Paul said in an interview. “I’ve put them in before, but I really decided against it.”

127 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:11:18pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

The Senate has confirmed John Brennan…

Hey, look on the bright side. The ‘Benghazi’ meme will endure.
///

128 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:11:22pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

The Senate has confirmed John Brennan…

And the wingnuts will go berserk because there’s a RW conspiracy theory floating around that Brennan is a crypto-Muslim; the story is that he converted to Islam in Saudi Arabia.

129 simoom  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:11:32pm

re: #125 Gus

Guess the website without searching.

Umm, The Blaze?

130 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:11:38pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

The Senate has confirmed John Brennan…

Next up, the filibuster of Gina McCarthy unless Obama approves Keystone XL.

131 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:11:46pm

“I’ve put them in before???!”

132 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:12:10pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

The Senate has confirmed John Brennan…

The next couple Supreme Court confirmations are going to be a real treat.

133 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:12:17pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

Oh, good freaking grief.

Rand Paul: I Decided Against Using Catheter During Filibuster | TPM LiveWire

This is what passes for political discourse in this country. Whether or not one particularly batty lawmaker thought about sticking a tube up his dick so he could grandstand in front of cameras just a little bit longer.

134 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:12:49pm

re: #132 Decatur Deb

The next couple Supreme Court confirmations are going to be a real treat.

Yeah Cornyn is blocking one nominee because of the “potential for judicial activism.”

135 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:12:50pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

“I did think about it,” Paul said in an interview. “I’ve put them in before, but I really decided against it.”

I’d ask if he meant that he used them on himself before, but I’m literally afraid of the answer I might get.

136 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:12:56pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

Oh, good freaking grief.

Rand Paul: I Decided Against Using Catheter During Filibuster | TPM LiveWire

That’s really funny considering that his response to Holder reiterating what he said before the filibuster was to claim victory!

So he won before he started, but he needed to be on a catheter so he could talk longer.

Did he also consider a pee bag and an extra large Depends?

137 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:13:08pm

re: #129 simoom

Umm, The Blaze?

Russia Today

138 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:13:44pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

“I’ve put them in before???!”

TMI!

139 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:14:29pm

re: #136 stabby

Did he also consider a pee bag and an extra large Depends?

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn that he wore a Depends for the occasion. Dude is just fucking weird.

140 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:15:02pm

Another.

Obama drone strikes are mass murders: Mark Mason

Mason is the same one that’s referenced by RT.

141 blueraven  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:15:03pm

re: #137 Gus

Russia Today

Not much difference. Propaganda wars.

142 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:16:18pm

Does Rand have a fetish?

143 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:16:50pm

re: #139 makeitstop

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn that he wore a Depends for the occasion. Dude is just fucking weird.

I’m frankly a lot more bothered at the prospect that it’s the job of the media to report on how a sitting US Senator might have or have not managed his urinary needs during the (admittedly dubious) conduction of his duties.

I DON’T CARE. GO PESTER SOMEONE ABOUT BEING CERTAIN THERE WERE WMD’S IN IRAQ, OR ON WHAT GROUND WE MIGHT SOMEDAY DECIDE THE WAR ON TERROR IS ‘OVER’, OR SOMETHING. SOMETHING THAT MATTERS.

144 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:17:21pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

“I’ve put them in before???!”

One does not question the Aquabuddha.

145 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:17:57pm

re: #144 Kragar (Antichrist )

One regrets questioning the Aquabuddha.

FTFY.

146 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:18:11pm

re: #142 dragonath

Does Rand have a fetish?

Yes, starving poor grandparents and children and denying them medicine.

The world is his dungeon.

147 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:18:27pm

Rand Paul Praises Horrendous Supreme Court Decision, Would Let Employers Ruthlessly Exploit Workers

Lochner v. New York is widely viewed as one of the worst Supreme Court decisions in American history. It is taught in law schools, alongside decisions upholding segregation and permitting Japanese detention camps, in order to instruct budding lawyers on how judges should not behave. Even Robert Bork, the failed, right-wing Supreme Court nominee who claimed women “aren’t discriminated against anymore”, called Lochner an “abomination” that “lives in the law as the symbol, indeed the quintessence of judicial usurpation of power.”

148 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:18:57pm

re: #145 erik_t

FTFY.

Rand questioned the Aquabuddha once.

ONCE!

149 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:19:07pm

I should have said “America is his dungeon”

150 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:20:09pm

re: #147 Varek Raith

Rand Paul Praises Horrendous Supreme Court Decision, Would Let Employers Ruthlessly Exploit Workers

He’s on record on saying he would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Yeah, some friend of freedom. Him and his old man are both okay with sanctioned racism as long as it’s done by a state. Paul and his Dad have never truly cared about individual rights. They’re just not okay with the feds doing it. The states can do whatever the hell they please though because the 10th amendment allows for that.//

151 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:21:11pm

Bin Laden’s Son-in-Law Captured by U.S. While En Route to Kuwait

March 7 (Bloomberg) — Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation officials captured Osama bin Laden’s son-in-law as he sought to travel from Jordan to Kuwait, according to a U.S. lawmaker.

“I commend our CIA and FBI, our allies in Jordan, and President Obama” for capturing Suleiman Abu Ghaith, Representative Peter King, a New York Republican who serves on the House Homeland Security Committee, said today in an e-mailed statement.

The capture of Abu Ghaith, which came after a decade-long manhunt, was reported earlier today by the Turkish newspaper Hurriyet. He helped plan al-Qaeda’s Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the U.S. and has been among the group’s most influential surviving leaders since U.S. Navy SEALs killed bin Laden in May 2011.

“His capture and extradition not only allows the U.S. to hold — and perhaps try — a reputed al-Qaeda core survivor, further tarnishing the AQ core ‘brand,’ but it also points to the dangers for those few remaining AQ core refugees,” Thomas Lynch, a retired U.S. Army colonel who is a senior research fellow at the National Defense University, said in an e-mail.

Jay Carney, President Barack Obama’s spokesman, declined today to comment on reports of Abu Ghaith’s capture.

152 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:22:04pm

Warren: Drug possession warrants jail time but laundering cartel money doesn’t?

“HSBC paid a fine, but no one individual went to trial, no individual was banned from banking, and there was no hearing to consider shutting down HSBC’s activities here in the United States,” Warren said. “So, what I’d like is, you’re the experts on money laundering. I’d like an opinion: What does it take — how many billions do you have to launder for drug lords and how many economic sanctions do you have to violate — before someone will consider shutting down a financial institution like this?”

Treasury Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence David S. Cohen, though admitting HSBC’s actions were “egregious,” did not answer Warren’s question. “For our part, we imposed on HSBC the largest penalties that we’ve ever imposed on any financial institution ever. We looked at the facts and determined that the most appropriate response there was a very, very significant penalty against the institution.”

Warren reiterated her question and still got nowhere. “We at the Treasury Department… don’t have the authority to shut down a financial institution,” Cohen said.

“I understand that,” Warren said, visibly annoyed. “I’m asking, in your opinion — you’re the ones who are supposed to be the experts on money laundering, you work with everyone else including the Department of Justice — in your opinion, how many billions of dollars do you have to launder for drug lords before somebody says, ‘We’re shutting you down,’?”

153 aagcobb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:22:13pm

re: #112 FriendsofHummus

Yeah but arming school kids will have great results.

Just ask David Barton; he has documented proof from a Louie L’Amour novel.

154 aagcobb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:24:12pm

re: #125 Gus

Other headlines in the world of derp.

US ‘main supplier of drone terrorism’ on the planet

Guess the website without searching.

prisonplanet

155 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:25:24pm
156 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:25:25pm

re: #152 Kragar (Antichrist )

I’d upding 10x if I could. It is ridiculous that there are serious policy questions about war on terror tactics at the same time it is openly admitted by US authorities that money launderers for terrorists and drug cartels (i.e, the HSBC bank) are untouchable.

157 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:25:42pm

More from Warren:

“You know, if you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re going to go to jail,” Warren said. “If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night, every single individual associated with this. I think that’s fundamentally wrong.”

158 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:26:05pm

re: #154 aagcobb

prisonplanet

Russia Today.

The other one further down is from PressTV. Same guy saying this. Mark Mason.

159 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:27:58pm

re: #155 Gus

Yet another episode in right wing douchebaggery. Yet O’Keefe and his mentor Breitbart are treated like heroes for their attempts to ruin people’s livelihoods.

160 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:28:36pm

We’ve been putting the wrong guys into Gitmo apparently.

161 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:28:54pm
162 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:29:16pm

re: #161 Gus

Getting the Lenin treatment, huh?

163 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:29:19pm

re: #161 Gus

That’s not creepy or anything.

164 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:29:25pm

re: #147 Varek Raith

Rand Paul Praises Horrendous Supreme Court Decision, Would Let Employers Ruthlessly Exploit Workers

Rand Paul lets his inner fascist out to play. Lochner is truly awful. It invented a mythical “right of contract” which could be used to invalidate pretty much any laws relating to labor.

165 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:29:57pm

re: #161 Gus

FOOLS!
He will rise as a zombie and kill us all!

166 aagcobb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:31:09pm

re: #160 Kragar (Antichrist )

We’ve been putting the wrong guys into Gitmo apparently.

That is the single biggest problem with this Administration. Why won’t it prosecute bankers engaging in blatantly criminal activity? Don’t they understand that as long as they are telling bankers they are immune from prosecution, they are going to just go on acting like gangsters?

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:31:45pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

Anytime I get told ‘bout how gun accidents are “rare,” I immediately have that video the cop giving a demonstration and proceeding to put a hole in his foot come to mind as a counterpoint. No matter how small the odds supposedly are, you’re talking thousands of guns in schools and around children. All it takes is one “accident” and a child won’t be coming home.

We had a corporate “town hall meeting” today. They always start off with the HES review (Health, Environmental, Safety) where they do the metrics for various areas as compared to our projected goals; pollution events (air and water) and injuries (especially OSHA recordable* ones). The metric for the latter is usually measured in recordable injuries per 200,000 work-hours in the US (and per 1,000,000 work-hours in most of the rest of the world). We have a stretch goal for this year of *one* for the year - which would correspond to one for 1 million work-hours roughly.

And it was pointed out that our general safety record for injuries (and near misses - which we also try to track) is that we are really good with following safe procedures during plant outages, severe weather conditions, and when machinery breaks. Our injuries occur during non-emergency operations when things have run smoothly for a while and people start to get complacent.

* - There are standards for what has to be reported to OSHA. Generally any injury requiring doctor care, stitches, or a hospital visit. The research facility I used to work at ran years between recordable injuries. And one while I was there was an administrative assistant tripping into the edge of a file cabinet and getting a cut on her leg that required three stitches. So recordables are not always big injuries in the relative scope of things.

168 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:32:14pm

Warren is awesome.

169 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:32:23pm

re: #166 aagcobb

That is the single biggest problem with this Administration. Why won’t it prosecute bankers engaging in blatantly criminal activity? Don’t they understand that as long as they are telling bankers they are immune from prosecution, they are going to just go on acting like gangsters?

Apparently some businesses are too big to jail.

170 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:32:27pm

re: #161 Gus

Wow.

171 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:32:51pm

Here’s something that’s definitely not going to help Greece:

Over 200 medicines taken off Greek market because of low prices

Pharmaceutical companies withdrew more than 200 medical products from the Greek market last year, in most cases because they saw a drop in profits due to adjusted prices and reduced demand, Kathimerini understands.

In the first two months of 2013, 13 firms informed the National Organization for Medicines (EOF) that they plan to halve the supply of 25 drugs, the newspaper said.

172 aagcobb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:33:43pm

re: #169 Kragar (Antichrist )

Apparently some businesses are too big to jail.

I know HSBC can’t go to jail, but some fucking HSBC executives could sure as shit go to jail.

173 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:33:45pm

re: #166 aagcobb

That is the single biggest problem with this Administration. Why won’t it prosecute bankers engaging in blatantly criminal activity? Don’t they understand that as long as they are telling bankers they are immune from prosecution, they are going to just go on acting like gangsters?

I imagine the “Nice economy you’ve got there, Mr. President. Be a shame if anything happened to it” conversation occurred in 2008 or 2009.

OWS needed to succeed as a mass movement for any real possibility of action against the banks to be on the table.

174 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:33:58pm

Guess who’s there…

175 Stanley Sea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:34:19pm

re: #161 Gus

Ewe. Soooooo creepy.

176 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:36:02pm

re: #155 Gus

God, that’s disgusting.

Being a lying creep for the right is SO profitable that any idiot on that gravy train can afford a bevy of lawyers and to pay $100,000 to avoid going to court (and tarnishing his salabilty by losing).

Honest journalists live entire lives in near poverty, and THESE morons who never read a book and can’t write their names without spellcheck on get richer and richer…

177 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:36:22pm

re: #161 Gus

Just like Lenin and Ho Chi Minh.

Stuffed and put on permanent display. Weird.

178 iossarian  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:37:20pm

re: #166 aagcobb

That is the single biggest problem with this Administration. Why won’t it prosecute bankers engaging in blatantly criminal activity? Don’t they understand that as long as they are telling bankers they are immune from prosecution, they are going to just go on acting like gangsters?

Too hard and too expensive, with too small a payoff. The recent hedge fund/insider dealing case basically had a recording of the guy on the phone telling his accomplice that he’d just come out of a meeting with company X and to dump the stock, and yet it was still absurdly long and drawn out with only a couple of convictions at the end.

No-one wins but the lawyers. Now we have the sequester to deal with - it’s not really time to double down on unwinnable cases.

The way to change it is to change the actual laws involved. Going through the courts at the moment is a waste of time.

179 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:37:40pm

re: #177 Dr Lizardo

Just like Lenin and Ho Chi Minh and Trigger.

Stuffed and put on permanent display. Weird.

Added a bit.

180 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:38:56pm

re: #161 Gus

Trying to build up the cult of personality for the remains of his particular party is my guess.

I have my doubts it will hold up.

181 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:39:20pm

re: #178 iossarian

Too hard and too expensive, with too small a payoff. The recent hedge fund/insider dealing case basically had a recording of the guy on the phone telling his accomplice that he’d just come out of a meeting with company X and to dump the stock, and yet it was still absurdly long and drawn out with only a couple of convictions at the end.

No-one wins but the lawyers. Now we have the sequester to deal with - it’s not really time to double down on unwinnable cases.

The way to change it is to change the actual laws involved. Going through the courts at the moment is a waste of time.

I agree that changes in the laws are badly needed.

However, there is blatant stuff like HSBC getting off scot free that really makes it difficult for anyone to believe in the system. So enforcement is also a major problem.

182 Destro  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:39:38pm

Rand was acting like he defeated Star War’s Evil Empire or something.

183 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:40:08pm

Gah. Geller is such a creep. Reminds of some people I used to run into back east.

184 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:40:44pm

re: #181 EPR-radar

I agree that changes in the laws are badly needed.

However, there is blatant stuff like HSBC getting off scot free that really makes it difficult for anyone to believe in the system. So enforcement is also a major problem.

The banks have gotten good at dragging cases out for years and exploiting loopholes in the laws, such that after more than a year of litigation, an offer to settle the matter for chump change sounds like a “good deal.”

185 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:41:04pm

re: #179 wrenchwench

LOL. Yeah, it’s definitely weird. I guess the reason the Russians haven’t buried Lenin so far is that they realize he’s a genuine tourist attraction.

The Communists are still in charge in Vietnam, and Ho Chi Minh has assumed almost divine status in their book, so they’ll not do anything with him - as I recall, his wish was to be cremated and his ashes scattered over some mountains.

Trigger, well, that’s kinda weird in its own right.

186 iossarian  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:41:47pm

re: #181 EPR-radar

However, there is blatant stuff like HSBC getting off scot free that really makes it difficult for anyone to believe in the system. So enforcement is also a major problem.

Well yes. But how can you win a case when no-one’s even suggesting that, for example, Goldman Sachs broke any laws, despite describing their AAA rated deals as “dogshit” in internal emails and laughing at the rubes buying their deliberately inflated loan bundles?

That’s not a lack of will to enforce - it’s a situation where there is literally nothing *to* enforce.

187 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:42:08pm

Attorney General Says That The Nation’s Biggest Banks Are Too-Big-To-Jail

Both Democrats and Republicans have raised criticism of the Justice Department’s leniency when it comes to the prosecution of Wall Street banks for their roles in the housing crisis and financial collapse that sparked the Great Recession. But today, Attorney General Eric Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the very size of those banks is what inhibits prosecution, Bloomberg reports:

Criminal charges against a bank — something that could threaten its existence — may also endanger the national or global economies in the case of the largest ones, because of their size and interconnectedness. That has “made it difficult for us to prosecute” some of those institutions, Holder said today at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing.

“That is a function of the fact that some of these institutions have become too large,” Holder told lawmakers. “It has an inhibiting impact on our ability to bring resolutions that I think would be more appropriate.”

188 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:42:34pm

re: #185 Dr Lizardo

Trigger, well, that’s kinda weird in its own right.

Would have been orders of magnitude weirder if they’d stuffed Roy and mounted him on the horse.

189 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:43:04pm

Wait isn’t Mao on permanent display in Beijing too?

190 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:43:41pm

re: #186 iossarian

Well yes. But how can you win a case when no-one’s even suggesting that, for example, Goldman Sachs broke any laws, despite describing their AAA rated deals as “dogshit” in internal emails and laughing at the rubes buying their deliberately inflated loan bundles?

That’s not a lack of will to enforce - it’s a situation where there is literally nothing *to* enforce.

Eric Holder disagrees with you.

191 stabby  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:43:46pm

re: #185 Dr Lizardo

So dead communist leaders are just tourist attractions?

Maybe they should make Chavez into a Matterhorn like ride.

Imagine the happy kids riding his stuffed body on a rail through puddles.

:/

192 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:43:56pm

re: #186 iossarian

Well yes. But how can you win a case when no-one’s even suggesting that, for example, Goldman Sachs broke any laws, despite describing their AAA rated deals as “dogshit” in internal emails and laughing at the rubes buying their deliberately inflated loan bundles?

That’s not a lack of will to enforce - it’s a situation where there is literally nothing *to* enforce.

Guilty as sin, free as a bird. How do you prosecute someone when, under the very laws they’ve spent years knee-capping, they didn’t do anything illegal?

193 geoffm33  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:44:09pm

re: #177 Dr Lizardo

Just like Lenin and Ho Chi Minh.

Stuffed and put on permanent display. Weird.

When I read “Just Like” I thought of ‘Airplane’ and had to google the quote:

Steve McCroskey: [to Mrs. Oveur] Now your husband and the others are alive, but unconscious.
Johnny: Just like Gerald Ford.

194 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:44:16pm

re: #184 Targetpractice

The banks have gotten good at dragging cases out for years and exploiting loopholes in the laws, such that after more than a year of litigation, an offer to settle the matter for chump change sounds like a “good deal.”

The tools are there to bring down the hammer. A federal prosecutor could threaten to start taking scalps of HSBC senior people under RICO. That would scare these folks straight.

Cute lawyer tricks stop working when the laws put on the books for dealing with mobsters are brought into play.

195 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:44:20pm

Back to the Rand Paul catheter story for a second…

Sure, his answer to the question is pretty weird. But how weird does Glenn Beck have to be to even ask it in the first place?

196 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:44:27pm

re: #177 Dr Lizardo

Just like Lenin and Ho Chi Minh.

Stuffed and put on permanent display. Weird.

On a related note, Oliver Cromwell’s head got bounced around from place to place for almost 300 years.

197 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:45:03pm

re: #196 dragonath

On a related note, Oliver Cromwell’s head got bounced around from place to place for almost 300 years.

Wonder if ever as a soccer ball by any of my kin.

198 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:45:34pm

re: #186 iossarian

Well yes. But how can you win a case when no-one’s even suggesting that, for example, Goldman Sachs broke any laws, despite describing their AAA rated deals as “dogshit” in internal emails and laughing at the rubes buying their deliberately inflated loan bundles?

That’s not a lack of will to enforce - it’s a situation where there is literally nothing *to* enforce.

That the part where the laws have to be be re-done before any enforcement makes sense.

But it is impossible to take legislation seriously if money laundering for drug cartels and terrorists isn’t being prosecuted.

199 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:45:45pm

re: #194 EPR-radar

The tools are there to bring down the hammer. A federal prosecutor could threaten to start taking scalps of HSBC senior people under RICO. That would scare these folks straight.

Cute lawyer tricks stop working when the laws put on the books for dealing with mobsters are brought into play.

Then we get into the territory that Kragar just quoted Holder as stating we pretty much exist in now: If you started dragging these bankers and their accomplices off to the hoosegow, the whole system would freak and you’d have a global financial crisis.

200 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:45:57pm

re: #188 makeitstop

Would have been orders of magnitude weirder if they’d stuffed Roy and mounted him on the horse.

Now that would be a tourist attraction!

201 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:46:40pm

re: #37 Kragar (Antichrist )

Schlafly: ‘We Need to Train the Men’ to ‘Stand Up to the Feminists’

OK, I understand now.

“Sit your ass down and knock off your Dark Age crap, Phyllis. Everyone here is tired of your tired horseshit.”

Like that?

Schflay is still alive. I thought she was already in Hell.

202 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:46:57pm

re: #191 stabby

So dead communist leaders are just tourist attractions?

Maybe they should make Chavez into a Matterhorn like ride.

Imagine the happy kids riding his stuffed body on a rail through puddles.

:/

Instead of “The Matterhorn” they could call it “El Commandante”.

203 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:48:18pm

re: #199 Targetpractice

Then we get into the territory that Kragar just quoted Holder as stating we pretty much exist in now: If you started dragging these bankers and their accomplices off to the hoosegow, the whole system would freak and you’d have a global financial crisis.

The banks must be brought to heel. Any entity that cannot be policed because of its size and systemic importance must be carved up into manageable pieces.

204 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:49:36pm

Nothing says “healthy democracy” like embalming your deceased leaders. The RNC ought to fetch Reagan and display him as a anti-socialist charm.

205 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:50:17pm

re: #203 EPR-radar

The banks must be brought to heel. Any entity that cannot be policed because of its size and systemic importance must be carved up into manageable pieces.

Agreed. We need a new era of Trust Busting.

206 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:50:53pm

re: #205 Kragar (Antichrist )

Agreed. We need a new era of Trust Busting.

Gonna take people from both parties, liberals, conservatives, etc.

207 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:52:20pm

re: #204 dragonath

Nothing says “healthy democracy” like embalming your deceased leaders. The RNC ought to fetch Reagan and display him as a anti-socialist charm.

If Reagan were to be disinterred, he wouldn’t be used as an anti-socialist charm. The corpse would be the top of the 2016 GOP ticket. Every wingnut in the US would fervently believe this ticket agrees perfectly with their views, and there would be no pesky evidence to the contrary from Zombie Reagan.

208 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:52:55pm

re: #205 Kragar (Antichrist )

Agreed. We need a new era of Trust Busting.

Don’t think the political will exists for that these days. The public may be pissed at the banks, but too many on Capital Hill are either former bankers or count bankers amongst their allies. They’ll fight tooth and nail against the idea of the government stepping and breaking up “too big to fail” banks.

209 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:54:25pm

re: #185 Dr Lizardo

Trigger, well, that’s kinda weird in its own right.

re: #188 makeitstop

Would have been orders of magnitude weirder if they’d stuffed Roy and mounted him on the horse.

Dale Evans was highly motivated to outlive Roy Rogers.

210 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:54:43pm

re: #208 Targetpractice

Don’t think the political will exists for that these days. The public may be pissed at the banks, but too many on Capital Hill are either former bankers or count bankers amongst their allies. They’ll fight tooth and nail against the idea of the government stepping and breaking up “too big to fail” banks.

That is what I was thinking of when I said that OWS needed to be a massive success for this to get off the ground. The banks own DC, and massive popular resistance is likely the only possible way to end this. The odds are not good.

211 HoosierHoops  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:56:37pm

Today has been a nightmare. There was a group of us transferred here to Oklahoma. This week it was my buddy’s turn to head out to our Campus in Silicone Valley for training. He kept calling his wife here but she never answered. He called and asked me to go check on her. She was dead laying in bed. We don’t know why yet. My heart goes out to him..Besides his sorrow he is full of guilt not being with her. If we could have only known I’d have taken his place.. There are no words for him..Just grief and sorrow.

212 kwb2003  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:56:55pm

But, but Senator, what about the missing 10000 Benghazi witness’s?

213 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:57:18pm

Freepers are none too happy with Brennan’s confirmation by the Senate.

If this isn’t a Broken Arrow scenario at the top levels of the Executive branch aided and abetted by the Senate and the media then there is no such thing. We are on our own. Plan accordingly.
____________________

selecting this soetero-protecting jihad-loving droid to head the CIA is a very very low point in our nation’s history

hope we still have some patriots at Langley who will protect us
____________________

So: Now we have a Muslim in the White House, a Muslim in the Cia, a Jew hater as SecDef and a traitor as SOS.

Hot damn, we are rolling now aint we?
____________________

Fairly representative of the ravings of the fever swamp.

214 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:01:26pm

re: #213 Dr Lizardo

Freepers are none too happy with Brennan’s confirmation by the Senate.

If this isn’t a Broken Arrow scenario at the top levels of the Executive branch aided and abetted by the Senate and the media then there is no such thing. We are on our own. Plan accordingly.
____________________

selecting this soetero-protecting jihad-loving droid to head the CIA is a very very low point in our nation’s history

hope we still have some patriots at Langley who will protect us
____________________

So: Now we have a Muslim in the White House, a Muslim in the Cia, a Jew hater as SecDef and a traitor as SOS.

Hot damn, we are rolling now aint we?
____________________

Fairly representative of the ravings of the fever swamp.

Freepers are never happy. Brennan was a Bush guy for Godsake. And Hagel is a Republican.

215 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:07:25pm

re: #214 FriendsofHummus

Freepers are never happy. Brennan was a Bush guy for Godsake. And Hagel is a Republican.

Yeah, but they’re not wingnutty enough of Republicans, and there’s that conspiracy theory that Brennan is a “seekrit Moozlim!!” started by WND.

216 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:10:55pm

re: #167 Feline Fearless Leader

We had a corporate “town hall meeting” today. They always start off with the HES review (Health, Environmental, Safety) where they do the metrics for various areas as compared to our projected goals; pollution events (air and water) and injuries (especially OSHA recordable* ones). The metric for the latter is usually measured in recordable injuries per 200,000 work-hours in the US (and per 1,000,000 work-hours in most of the rest of the world). We have a stretch goal for this year of *one* for the year - which would correspond to one for 1 million work-hours roughly.

And it was pointed out that our general safety record for injuries (and near misses - which we also try to track) is that we are really good with following safe procedures during plant outages, severe weather conditions, and when machinery breaks. Our injuries occur during non-emergency operations when things have run smoothly for a while and people start to get complacent.

* - There are standards for what has to be reported to OSHA. Generally any injury requiring doctor care, stitches, or a hospital visit. The research facility I used to work at ran years between recordable injuries. And one while I was there was an administrative assistant tripping into the edge of a file cabinet and getting a cut on her leg that required three stitches. So recordables are not always big injuries in the relative scope of things.

Worked for years at the Army’s Armament Research, Development and Engineering Center. We did everything from experimental hand grenades to Star Wars, with some weird excursions off to the side. A series of commanders supported a kick-ass safety program and we went ten years without a fatal accident. Then one day a guy doing such weird shit that he was sent to a hut farther than Inhabited Building Distance had to take a piss, so he slipped out behind a tree in a windstorm.

217 klys  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:13:51pm

re: #211 HoosierHoops

There’s not really words. Positive thoughts to you, yours, and your coworker.

218 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 7:21:33pm

re: #189 FriendsofHummus

Yes. And there are long lines to view him.

219 steve_davis  Fri, Mar 8, 2013 5:22:08am

re: #37 Kragar (Antichrist )

Schlafly: ‘We Need to Train the Men’ to ‘Stand Up to the Feminists’

OK, I understand now.

“Sit your ass down and knock off your Dark Age crap, Phyllis. Everyone here is tired of your tired horseshit.”

Like that?

Great. Now I have to be concerned about Schlafly showing up in my next prefab lasagna purchase.


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