James O’Keefe Settles on $100,000 Payment to Smeared ACORN Employee

Another Breitbart-sponsored smear target wins
Media • Views: 31,768

Juan Carlos Vera is the former ACORN employee who was recorded illegally without his consent by James O’Keefe for those infamous Andrew Breitbart-funded “sting” videos, purportedly giving O’Keefe and Hannah Giles advice on how to bring teenage girls into the US from Mexico. Vera was fired in the hysteria that followed the O’Keefe video releases, even though he contacted authorities immediately after the incident.

Now O’Keefe has settled out of court, agreeing to pay Vera $100,000 and write an apology. Wonkette has the rest: Totally Blameless Crime-Stopper James O’Keefe to Pay $100,000 to ACORN Criminal.

For the benefit of readers who are neither bitter and aggrieved former ACORN employees nor forum moderators at Democratic Underground, a short summary: ACORN was a community organizing group that became the locus of phantasmically baroque conspiracy theorizing in the build-up to the 2008 presidential election, first by the usual sad idiots, but inevitably by the seemingly rational journalists who must cover the sad idiots to pay their mortgages. ACORN attracted this negative attention, in part, because of its large and effective voter registration drives, which enfranchised record numbers of minority and low-income voters, who are demographically likely to vote for Democratic Party candidates. The sad idiots believed there was a collusion scheme between ACORN and a former employee of the group, who happened to be that year’s Democratic Presidential candidate: a ferocious IRA terrorist-sympathizer named Barrance Hussein O’Malley. In reality, ACORN’s decades-long campaigns to raise the minimum wage and their battles against predatory lenders had simply invited the animus of powerful business interests—who fund the media activities of sad idiots and rule the planet for like-minded reptilianoid pedophile Illuminatus from the 4th Dimension.

Juan Carlos Vera worked at the National City offices of ACORN in California.

In 2009, two twenty-something conservative activists, James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles, hoped to expose criminal malfeasance at ACORN by filming Vera without his consent, themselves violating section 632 of the California penal code in the process. Vera sued both parties over this and the wild misrepresentation of his activities in the edited version of the undercover video, posted online. (Giles settled with Vera and his attorneys this summer.) The episode is a quintessential example of a wholly original term, which we have just coined: journalistic malpractice.

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336 comments
1 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:55:48pm

Obviously this is an ACORN-orchestrated smear, no doubt at the direction of Obama, because O’Keefe isn’t guilty of anything! StandWithOKeefe!!!

2 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:56:49pm

Good. O’Keefe was and is a pathetic little scumbag. Still nauseous at the attempts to rationalize and justify what he did simply because people hated what ACORN stood for.

3 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:57:49pm

I hope Vera got a big chunk of change from Giles, too. And I hope, but don’t expect, that this would hurt the Breitbrat brand.

4 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:58:06pm

This is the best news I’ve heard all day.

5 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:58:11pm

So, this revolting POS O’Keefe finds being a cog in the RW noise machine sufficiently profitable that he can dispose of a losing law suit for $100K and not feel the pain.

More blessings of the free market. //dripping

6 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:58:40pm

re: #3 wrenchwench

I hope Vera got a big chunk of change from Giles, too. And I hope, but don’t expect, that this would hurt the Breitbrat brand.

The brand is a tragicomic bozo-the-clown fraud among everyone who thinks with their thinking-organ, and beyond reproach for those who do not. I cannot see either of these changing any time soon.

7 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:59:26pm

re: #3 wrenchwench

I hope Vera got a big chunk of change from Giles, too. And I hope, but don’t expect, that this would hurt the Breitbrat brand.

What’s pathetic is at least on the Breitbart faithful it helps it because they’ll claim the Gilles and O’Keefe were railroaded by the big mean liberal government.

8 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:59:26pm

Unless he has his lawyer write the apology he’s going to fuck that up.

9 Randall Gross  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 1:59:32pm

O’Keefe: not just a douche, but instead the whole douche kit.

10 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:01:15pm

re: #7 FriendsofHummus

What’s pathetic is at least on the Breitbart faithful it helps it because they’ll claim the Gilles and O’Keefe were railroaded by the big mean liberal government.

BIGMEANLIBRULGUBMINTGHAZI!!1!

11 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:01:46pm

re: #10 Dr Lizardo

Socialist Nazi Islam tyranny!

12 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:02:26pm

A check of the usual suspects shows that they seem not to have heard this news or are just acting like it. Curious as to how they’ll spin this to show Jimmy as the “victim” in all this.

13 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:04:04pm

re: #11 FriendsofHummus

Socialist Nazi Islam tyranny!

Heh. That reminds me of something from The Simpsons, uttered by Rainier Wolfcastle - The Commienazis. Or maybe it was the Nazicommies. Something like that.

14 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:04:41pm

smeared acorn

can i get it on whole wheat toast?

15 AntonSirius  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:04:51pm

re: #5 EPR-radar

So, this revolting POS O’Keefe finds being a cog in the RW noise machine sufficiently profitable that he can dispose of a losing law suit for $100K and not feel the pain.

More blessings of the free market. //dripping

I thought he was a rich kid before he was a RW media darling?

16 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:05:29pm

Today’s word of the day: Schadenfreude

Mar 7, 2013
This week’s theme
There’s a word for it

A.Word.A.Day
with Anu Garg

schadenfreude

PRONUNCIATION:
(SHAAD-n-froi-duh)

MEANING:
noun: Pleasure derived from another’s misfortune.

ETYMOLOGY:
From German Schadenfreude, from Schaden (damage, harm) + Freude (joy). Earliest documented use: 1852.

USAGE:
“Right after the election was called for President Obama, I did something I rarely do: I tuned in to Fox News. Nothing is tastier than schadenfreude and I wanted to see ‘Team 53 Percent’ unravel as it tried to spin Mitt Romney’s defeat.”
Liza Sabater; Occupy the Divide; Essence (New York); Jan 2013.

Oh Yes. Oh Yes. Oh Yes.

17 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:07:17pm

re: #13 Dr Lizardo

Heh. That reminds me of something from the Simpson, uttered by Rainier Wolfcastle - The Comminazis. Or maybe it was the Nazicommies. Something like that.

It was Commie Nazis and it’s awesome.

18 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:07:39pm

re: #15 AntonSirius

I thought he was a rich kid before he was a RW media darling?

I wasn’t sure, so I just checked wikipedia. It doesn’t look like there’s family wealth, so my assumption that the 100K is proceeds from RW shilling seems OK.

19 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:08:14pm

re: #16 Iwouldprefernotto

Anu Garg


ret marut is that you?

20 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:08:31pm

And STILL the now-dead Acorn and The New Super Duper Black Panther Party and the Obummer DOJ stolded the election. //

21 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:08:51pm

It’s shameful how the media and government agencies fell for these early Breitbart smears.

I hope these people have learned something, because we haven’t seen the last underhanded hack job from these nasty fuckers.

22 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:09:43pm

re: #18 EPR-radar


Sounds like the Kochs have another bill to pay…

23 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:10:09pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

It’s shameful how the media and government agencies fell for these early Breitbart smears.

I hope these people have learned something, because we haven’t seen the last underhanded hack job from these nasty fuckers.

They learned that they can sell newspapers/increase page hits, by spreading BS.

24 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:10:13pm

Another reason that ACORN was specifically targeted was its successful nationwide Living Wage campaign, which worked to set a new standard for wages not based on minimum wages (the lowest amount employers have to pay) but on a wage that people and families can actually live on. It’s an interesting subject and worth a closer look.

For anybody interested, Grover Norquist, James O’Keefe, Ralph Reed, Jeff Gannon, Senator Mitch McConnell, Congressman Mike Pence are all alumni of conservative activist Morton C. Blackwell’s organization, The Leadership Institute
It looks like we are now reaping that harvest.

25 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:10:16pm

re: #17 FriendsofHummus

Heh, heh, heh. Thanks for refreshing my memory. The Commienazis.

If you’ve ever seen “Three The Hard Way”, the bad guys are white supremacists I’ve dubbed the ‘Honkynazis’. And their leader is none other than Dr. Shrinker himself!! How awesome is that?!

26 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:11:59pm
Congressman Mike Pence

As hard as it is to believe, this Pence guy is the governor of a great state in this Union today.

27 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:12:19pm

re: #25 Dr Lizardo

Heh, heh, heh. Thanks for refreshing my memory. The Commienazis.

If you’ve ever seen “Three The Hard Way”, the bad guys are white supremacists I’ve dubbed the ‘Honkynazis’. And their leader is none other than Dr. Shrinker himself!! How awesome is that?!

Oh man that sounds awesome. Seriously I love that original clip because it shows how action movies and people like the McBain movies spoof will make it like every group that we hate are aligned together. If it had been made now, I’m sure it would be Islamic commies because you know Islamists love Communism.

28 blueraven  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:13:29pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

It’s shameful how the media and government agencies fell for these early Breitbart smears.

I hope these people have learned something, because we haven’t seen the last underhanded hack job from these nasty fuckers.

And this is why I always take accusations against people with a big grain of salt. I look for many sources to confirm behavior etc…

It is shameful what Okeefe and Breitbart did to peoples lives and shameful that the MS media aided them.

29 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:13:31pm

re: #24 NomadicView

Another reason that ACORN was specifically targeted was its successful nationwide Living Wage campaign, which worked to set a new standard for wages not based on minimum wages (the lowest amount employers have to pay) but on a wage that people and families can actually live on. It’s an interesting subject and worth a closer look.

For anybody interested, Grover Norquist, James O’Keefe, Ralph Reed, Jeff Gannon, Senator Mitch McConnell, Congressman Mike Pence are all alumni of conservative activist Morton C. Blackwell’s organization, The Leadership Institute
It looks like we are now reaping that harvest.

Morton Blackwell who is better known for handing out the bandages mocking John Kerry’s purple heart at the 2004 RNC.

30 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:15:31pm

re: #24 NomadicView

Another reason that ACORN was specifically targeted was its successful nationwide Living Wage campaign, which worked to set a new standard for wages not based on minimum wages (the lowest amount employers have to pay) but on a wage that people and families can actually live on. It’s an interesting subject and worth a closer look.

For anybody interested, Grover Norquist, James O’Keefe, Ralph Reed, Jeff Gannon, Senator Mitch McConnell, Congressman Mike Pence are all alumni of conservative activist Morton C. Blackwell’s organization, The Leadership Institute
It looks like we are now reaping that harvest.

Important point. The gloves have a distinct tendency to come off when economic issues are raised. The powers that be are apparently content with agitation against racism and other forms of bigotry, but any agitation about economic issues is dealt with severely (e.g., response to OWS).

31 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:15:47pm

You know the thing that’s really disgraceful is after this was done. They did the same thing to Shirley Sherrod at the DoA. These people are fucked up. But yet at this year’s CPAC they will be eulogizing Andrew Breitbart as if he was this good guy who didn’t go out of his way to ruin people’s livelihoods for shits and giggles.

32 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:17:04pm

re: #30 EPR-radar

Morton Blackwell has all the class of John Cusack’s boss in Better Off Dead.

“Ya gotta have class in this business…”

[Link: www.imdb.com…]

33 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:18:47pm
34 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:19:01pm

re: #29 FriendsofHummus

Morton Blackwell who is better known for handing out the bandages mocking John Kerry’s purple heart at the 2004 RNC.

I’m still pissed off about this. How come it was OK to make fun of injured vets? It was one of the most disgusting stunts performed at a Republican convention.

35 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:19:15pm

re: #27 FriendsofHummus

Oh man that sounds awesome. Seriously I love that original clip because it shows how action movies and people like the McBain movies spoof will make it like every group that we hate are aligned together. If it had been made now, I’m sure it would be Islamic commies because you know Islamists love Communism.

Here you go. “Three The Hard Way” starring Fred Williamson, Jim Brown, Jim Kelly and Jay Robinson. Directed by Gordon Parks, Jr., 1974. 90 minutes of pure badassery!

36 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:19:28pm

And who could forget O’Keefe trying to bug Senator Landrieu’s office. Really and then to think about all the right wingers in the media and in politics who wanted to make this little punk a hero. Funny how right wingers are always lecturing lefties to get real jobs. Maybe they should tell the same to James whose whole career to now seems to be just ruining people because his right wing pals think it’s a good laugh.

37 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:20:59pm

re: #33 Gus

Sometime one can make a diagnosis over the internet. Ben Shapiro clearly has no higher brain functions.

38 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:21:19pm

re: #33 Gus

Explains why some of his early targets were Communists, Socialists, and labor union members. Really how hard is it to just admit that Hitler was on the right? That doesn’t mean that mainstream conservatism is Nazism any more than mainstream liberalism equals Communism. But then again we are dealing with the truest of Scotsman in Shapiro and Hannity.

39 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:22:45pm

re: #34 Iwouldprefernotto

I’m still pissed off about this. How come it was OK to make fun of injured vets? It was one of the most disgusting stunts performed at a Republican convention.

It really was pathetic. I don’t care how you felt about Kerry. Using the fact that he was the Democratic nominee to mock the Purple Heart award was disgusting. And I don’t know if Kerry ever received an apology for that and the general way he was treated in the 2004 election. It was one thing to question him on the issues, quite another to have his patriotism mocked.

40 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:23:03pm

re: #38 FriendsofHummus

Explains why some of his early targets were Communists, Socialists, and labor union members. Really how hard is it to just admit that Hitler was on the right? That doesn’t mean that mainstream conservatism is Nazism any more than mainstream liberalism equals Communism. But then again we are dealing with the truest of Scotsman in Shapiro and Hannity.

A right winger who does not admit Hitler was of the extreme right is as deliberately stupid and obtuse as a left winger who does not admit that Stalin was of the extreme left.

41 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:23:47pm

There is something deeply, deeply creepy about people capable of fabricating evidence while believing that their counterfeit “proves” something.

42 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:25:31pm

BREATHTAKING ISLAMOPHOBIC BULLSHIT

43 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:25:53pm

re: #36 FriendsofHummus

re: #36 FriendsofHummus

And who could forget O’Keefe trying to bug Senator Landrieu’s office. Really and then to think about all the right wingers in the media and in politics who wanted to make this little punk a hero. Funny how right wingers are always lecturing lefties to get real jobs. Maybe they should tell the same to James whose whole career to now seems to be just ruining people because his right wing pals think it’s a good laugh.

Oh recall how much bluster Fox news made about some punk hacking into Palin’s emails. Let’s not forget that really weird thing he tried to arrange with that reporter. Never got that actually.

44 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:26:26pm

re: #38 FriendsofHummus

Explains why some of his early targets were Communists, Socialists, and labor union members. Really how hard is it to just admit that Hitler was on the right? That doesn’t mean that mainstream conservatism is Nazism any more than mainstream liberalism equals Communism. But then again we are dealing with the truest of Scotsman in Shapiro and Hannity.

They refuse because they want to keep alive this fairy tale that there is no conservative “extreme,” that anyone who says otherwise is a socialist who doesn’t understand “common sense.”

45 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:26:34pm

re: #40 EPR-radar

A right winger who does not admit Hitler was of the extreme right is as deliberately stupid and obtuse as a left winger who does not admit that Stalin was of the extreme left.

Conservative never does any wrong though. Really, if one wants proof that Hitler was on the right and not on the left. Look at who his opponents were in his rise to power. Yes, it’s true that there were people on the right that opposed him too but there also were people on the left including leftists who opposed the Soviets as well. Nuance really doesn’t work for either Shapiro or Hannity because both of these imbeciles want to live in a world where only the left commits evil or if the right does, it was because the left started it.

46 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:26:59pm

re: #34 Iwouldprefernotto

Blackwell goes all the way back to the Reagan era. You can’t more blue-blood neo-con that Blackwell.

47 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:27:11pm

re: #40 EPR-radar

A right winger who does not admit Hitler was of the extreme right is as deliberately stupid and obtuse as a left winger who does not admit that Stalin was of the extreme left.

True, but I don’t remember a lefty denying it. He’s our albatross and our warning.

48 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:28:00pm

re: #47 Decatur Deb

True, but I don’t remember a lefty denying it. He’s our albatross and our warning.

I’ve seen some lefties try to claim Stalin was on the right but not to the degree I see right wingers try to claim Hitler was on the left.

49 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:29:00pm

re: #43 NomadicView

re: #36 FriendsofHummus

Oh recall how much bluster Fox news made about some punk hacking into Palin’s emails. Let’s not forget that really weird thing he tried to arrange with that reporter. Never got that actually.

I had actually forgotten about the thing with the reporter. That was just weird.

50 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:29:36pm

re: #48 FriendsofHummus

I’ve seen some lefties try to claim Stalin was on the right but not to the degree I see right wingers try to claim Hitler was on the left.

Stalin is a pretty excellent case study in the need for multi-axis political alignments. “Left” versus “Right” doesn’t handle authoritarian regimes very well IMHO.

51 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:29:54pm

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

52 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:30:56pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

The discovery of your evil dark secret you’ve been hiding from us all was probably so shocking that it killed the poor man!

53 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:31:30pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

OH NOES CHARLES KILLED TEH BREITBART!!!111!!!!!!!!

54 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:31:40pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

Where were you on the night of Mar 1, 2012?

55 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:31:43pm

re: #30 EPR-radar

You can click on my name (for this reply) and see more information on the Living Wage Movement and why the powers that be would have certainly wanted it stopped. The conservatives wanted to portray its as some kind of new idea cooked up by liberal East coast professors. In fact, the main source of the Living Wage Movement comes from… wait for it, Pope Leo XIII who came up with idea back in 1891 in Rerum Novarum.

56 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:32:25pm

re: #50 erik_t

Stalin is a pretty excellent case study in the need for multi-axis political alignments. “Left” versus “Right” doesn’t handle authoritarian regimes very well IMHO.

My crude way of classifying authoritarian regimes into left or right is to look to the ideology they pay lip service to as an excuse to seize power.

It is not quite as silly as it sounds, since it usually identifies who the regime appealed to in its rise to power.

57 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:32:29pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

Was he going to reveal your true reptilian self to the world? The truth about what lies beneath the Denver International Airport?

///

58 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:34:10pm

re: #50 erik_t

Stalin is a pretty excellent case study in the need for multi-axis political alignments. “Left” versus “Right” doesn’t handle authoritarian regimes very well IMHO.

It actually gets more complicated with Stalin because the USSR under him had some very socially right wing policies like banning abortion, encouraging tons of children, and it saw homosexuality as a western capitalist decadence. Hell with the latter, that’s still the case with many Communist nations which is why I always laugh when I hear support for gay marriage equated with communism.

59 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:35:21pm

re: #55 NomadicView

You can click on my name (for this reply) and see more information on the Living Wage Movement and why the powers that be would have certainly wanted it stopped. The conservatives wanted to portray its as some kind of new idea cooked up by liberal East coast professors. In fact, the main source of the Living Wage Movement comes from… wait for it, Pope Leo XIII who came up with idea back in 1891 in Rerum Novarum.

Thanks for the link.

60 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:35:24pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

Was he going to reveal your true reptilian self to the world? The truth about what lies beneath the Denver International Airport?

///

He was going to reveal the deadly truth about Shasta Cola.

61 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:36:40pm

re: #60 The Ghost of a Flea

He was going to reveal the deadly truth about Shasta Cola.

O’Keefe was sewing the last scales on the Lizard Pimp costume.

62 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:36:55pm

Tell us about the suitcase full of panda meat, Charles.

63 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:37:07pm

To expand on Hitler was a leftist nonsense. A leftist wouldn’t have aligned with Franco in the Spanish Civil War. You know, Francisco Franco, one of Pat Buchanan’s favorite people. I will grant that European right/left differs from American right/left since our right wing has never had affinity for monarchies the way the European right did and does but to suggest that the Nazis were on the left is fundamentally dishonest and ignores the fact that after Jews and Roma, left wingers were among those that the Nazis targeted the most.

64 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:37:34pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

He might have discovered the incredibly damning fact that I use .011 gauge E strings, because of the “tone issue.”

Actually, I don’t know what it was supposed to be about. I saw a mention of it on Twitter, I think.

65 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:37:35pm

re: #48 FriendsofHummus

re: #48 FriendsofHummus

I’ve seen some lefties try to claim Stalin was on the right but not to the degree I see right wingers try to claim Hitler was on the left.

But the thing that neo-conservatives do NOT like to talk about is how much financial support the American millionaires gave to Hitler in his early days. Hitler and Henry Ford were great pals and shared a lot of the same opinions about the Jews. The American Ambassador to Nazi Germany returned to the US and made this bold statement in 1937:

“Fascism is on the march today in America. Millionaires are marching to the tune. It will come in this country unless a strong defense is set up by all liberal and progressive forces. …”

Nothing much has changed.

66 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:39:19pm

re: #41 The Ghost of a Flea

There is something deeply, deeply creepy about people capable of fabricating evidence while believing that their counterfeit “proves” something.

It is the mind set of a evangelical zealot. The truth is known. The only remaining task is to find (or fabricate) evidence for it to convince others.

Creationists are archetypes for this, but by now this mode of thinking has infected all aspects of RW ideology.

67 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:39:27pm

re: #65 NomadicView

re: #48 FriendsofHummus

But the thing that neo-conservatives do NOT like to talk about is how much financial support the American millionaires gave to Hitler in his early days. Hitler and Henry Ford were great pals and shared a lot of the same opinions about the Jews. The American Ambassador to Nazi Germany returned to the US and made this bold statement in 1937:

Nothing much has changed.

We had our Silver Shirts—rich clowns, mostly.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

68 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:41:25pm

re: #64 Charles Johnson

He might have discovered the incredibly damning fact that I use .011 gauge E strings, because of the “tone issue.”

Actually, I don’t know what it was supposed to be about. I saw a mention of it on Twitter, I think.

Andy always did strike me as the kinda guy who probably kept an enemies list that he just kept adding names to.

69 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:41:31pm

re: #63 FriendsofHummus

Another thing that is usually forgotten is how much the Catholic Church excused the fascists, like Hitler and Mussolini. The Church signed non-interference treaties with both of them. (That’s how Vatican City came into being). That’s why it really pissed me off to hear bishops like Jenky comparing Obama to fascist, like Hitler and Stalin.

70 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:41:55pm

re: #64 Charles Johnson

He might have discovered the incredibly damning fact that I use .011 gauge E strings, because of the “tone issue.”

11s? Blasphemer!

/

71 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:42:19pm

re: #63 FriendsofHummus

To expand on Hitler was a leftist nonsense. A leftist wouldn’t have aligned with Franco in the Spanish Civil War. You know, Francisco Franco, one of Pat Buchanan’s favorite people. I will grant that European right/left differs from American right/left since our right wing has never had affinity for monarchies the way the European right did and does but to suggest that the Nazis were on the left is fundamentally dishonest and ignores the fact that after Jews and Roma, left wingers were among those that the Nazis targeted the most.

This difference may be less than it appears to be. If RW ideology is viewed as basically the idea of an aristocracy that deserves to rule over lesser beings, then both monarchists and people who pine for corporate overlords fit the bill.

72 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:42:44pm

re: #67 Decatur Deb

I think Du Pont (along with some others) tried to arrange a military overthrow of FDR.

73 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:42:53pm

re: #70 makeitstop

Duane Allman used .012s. Finger-killers.

74 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:43:16pm

re: #69 NomadicView

Another thing that is usually forgotten is how much the Catholic Church excused the fascists, like Hitler and Mussolini. The Church signed non-interference treaties with both of them. (That’s how Vatican City came into being). That’s why it really pissed me off to hear bishops like Jenky comparing Obama to fascist, like Hitler and Stalin.

Yeah the church’s relationship with Euro-fascism is pretty messed up. Ever hear of the Utasse regime in Croatia? Truly horrifying stuff. Priests would actually take part in the murders of Jews, Serbs, and others at the camps that were set up.

75 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:43:58pm

re: #72 NomadicView

I think Du Pont (along with some others) tried to arrange a military overthrow of FDR.

GEN Smedley Butler USMC, MoH, fucked them when they tried to enlist him.

76 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:44:25pm

re: #71 EPR-radar

This difference may be less than it appears to be. If RW ideology is viewed as basically the idea of an aristocracy that deserves to rule over lesser beings, then both monarchists and people who pine for corporate overlords fit the bill.

I do agree with that but I do think it’s an important difference to note. I’ve got no liking for either monarchy or oligarchy but they are different philosophies. Both suck tho.

77 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:45:10pm

re: #63 FriendsofHummus

To expand on Hitler was a leftist nonsense. A leftist wouldn’t have aligned with Franco in the Spanish Civil War. You know, Francisco Franco, one of Pat Buchanan’s favorite people. I will grant that European right/left differs from American right/left since our right wing has never had affinity for monarchies the way the European right did and does but to suggest that the Nazis were on the left is fundamentally dishonest and ignores the fact that after Jews and Roma, left wingers were among those that the Nazis targeted the most.

Also not mentioned much: that there was a movement that combined “blood and soil” and Marxist thinking…Strasserism…that was a political opponent to Hitler with the nationalist community, that were exiled and eventually purged.

78 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:46:15pm

I tried using .012s for a while. Had to give up too much flexibility, almost impossible to bend up a third. They sound awesome though, especially on a Les Paul.

79 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:47:16pm

Costco CEO: Raise the minimum wage to more than $10 / hr

On Tuesday, Costco CEO and President Craig Jelinek came out in support of the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2013, which aims to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour, then adjust it after that for inflation.

“At Costco, we know that paying employees good wages makes good sense for business,” Jelinek said in a statement. “We pay a starting hourly wage of $11.50 in all states where we do business, and we are still able to keep our overhead costs low.”

“An important reason for the success of Costco’s business model is the attraction and retention of great employees,” Jelinek added. “Instead of minimizing wages, we know it’s a lot more profitable in the long term to minimize employee turnover and maximize employee productivity, commitment and loyalty. We support efforts to increase the federal minimum wage.”

Costco has a reputation for paying its employees above market rate, with the typical worker earning around $45,000 in 2011, according to Fortune. Walmart-owned Sam’s Club, in contrast, pays its sales associates an average of $17,486 per year, according to salary information website Glassdoor.com.

80 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:47:17pm

re: #77 The Ghost of a Flea

Also not mentioned much: that there was a movement that combined “blood and soil” and Marxist thinking…Strasserism…that was a political opponent to Hitler with the nationalist community, that were exiled and eventually purged.

Yep most of the victims on the Night of Long Knives were Nazis who actually seemed to believe in the Socialist part of National Socialist German Workers Party. Of course, even they only believed in “socialism” for Germans. Ernst Rohm was another such Nazi.

81 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:48:09pm

re: #79 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Costco CEO: Raise the minimum wage to more than $10 / hr

Man what a commie. What does he know about how to run a business. Oh you’re telling me that Costco is one of hte most successful ones…………

82 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:48:30pm

re: #79 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

One of the few good parts about Henry Ford has not been forgotten.

83 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:50:05pm

re: #81 FriendsofHummus

Man what a commie. What does he know about how to run a business. Oh you’re telling me that Costco is one of hte most successful ones…………

Costco drives me crazy. Their ads get through my spam blocker, and we don’t have a store within a hundred miles. I’d gladly deal with them over Walmart/Sam’s.

84 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:50:17pm

re: #73 Charles Johnson

Duane Allman used .012s. Finger-killers.

I could not even imagine. I’ve been an .010 guy forever.

Someone recently told me that Billy Gibbons uses an .006 ‘E.’ I’d be snapping them babies all day long.

85 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:50:35pm

re: #79 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Costco CEO: Raise the minimum wage to more than $10 / hr

I worked at Cosctco about 5 years ago. Hired for the Holidays. I hate to say this, but you want to know how they get their associates to work so hard? They treat them right. It’s shocking. You want to know another secret? The more you pay your employees, the more they have to spend in your store.

86 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:50:36pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

I’d be willing to be it had something to do with you planting racist comments on right wing blogs or perhaps your supposed involvement with Twitter Gulag.

87 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:51:01pm

re: #83 Decatur Deb

Costco drives me crazy. Their ads get through my spam blocker, and we don’t have a store within a hundred miles. I’d gladly deal with them over Walmart/Sam’s.

Teases.

88 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:51:19pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

I tried using .012s for a while. Had to give up too much flexibility, almost impossible to bend up a third. They sound awesome though, especially on a Les Paul.

I imagine they’d really beef up the tone of a slide guitar, too.

89 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:51:31pm

re: #82 EPR-radar

One of the few good parts about Henry Ford has not been forgotten.

Honestly, I don’t know why more executives think like that. I think it helps to pay your employees a good wage and give them good benefits. Forget where this comes from originally and hell it may be Ford himself but you do want your employees to be customers of your product. Paying your employees shitty wages and limiting their benefits I think is just a bad business model. And I’m not even speculating on the ethics part of it.

90 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:52:22pm

.05 for me.
We’re talking about mechanical pencils, right?
/

91 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:53:35pm

re: #89 FriendsofHummus

Honestly, I don’t know why more executives think like that. I think it helps to pay your employees a good wage and give them good benefits. Forget where this comes from originally and hell it may be Ford himself but you do want your employees to be customers of your product. Paying your employees shitty wages and limiting their benefits I think is just a bad business model. And I’m not even speculating on the ethics part of it.

Shareholders are to blame as much as, if not more, than the executives.

Actually the whole “quarter by quarter of ever increasing profits” notion of publicly traded businesses is to blame.

92 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:53:37pm

re: #89 FriendsofHummus

Honestly, I don’t know why more executives think like that. I think it helps to pay your employees a good wage and give them good benefits. Forget where this comes from originally and hell it may be Ford himself but you do want your employees to be customers of your product. Paying your employees shitty wages and limiting their benefits I think is just a bad business model. And I’m not even speculating on the ethics part of it.

If the private sector continues to refuse to pay living wages, then the only available response will be forced income and wealth distribution on a scale never before seen.

Nobody wants that, so the overlords of the private sector are being really short-sighted about this.

93 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:53:47pm

Wegman’s is another good model. They pay their employees well and give them good benefits. And they’re profitable and their quality is pretty good too. Hell, it shouldn’t be either be a good employer or good businessman, you can and countless employers are both.

94 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:53:51pm

re: #89 FriendsofHummus

Honestly, I don’t know why more executives think like that.

Short-term versus long-term thinking. You may not see the benefit of employee retention by the next quarterly report.

But, y’know, capitalism has all the answers.

95 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:53:53pm

Talk to the Hand: Glenn Beck Explains Extremism

Last night, Glenn Beck kicked off his television program with a long monologue about the rise of extremism in America. Of course, Beck insisted that he and his viewers are not the extremists but rather everyone else who doesn’t see how President Obama is trying to take away their guns, provoke civil unrest, and destroy America.

Eventually, Beck offered up a simple way of identifying extremists by using his own body, saying that the core - consisting of the “God-given helmet” of your head and the “God-given vest” of your chest - is what keeps you alive, which is why your body shuts down blood flow to your fingers and toes in times of emergency.

In the case of America, Beck explained, the Constitution is the core and people like Eric Holder, Cass Sunstein, Barack Obama, John Holdren, and Van Jones are the “extremities” that need to be cut off.

“I warn you, man,” he said, “hunker down because there is a storm coming and you’ve got to protect the core because the extremities are beginning to make a fist and they’re already beginning to throw blows”:

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:54:05pm

re: #79 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Costco CEO: Raise the minimum wage to more than $10 / hr

Studies have shown that, when minimum wage is raised or states raise the rate above the federal minimum, companies make more effort to find and keep good employees, because they cease being seen as replaceable and start being seen as an investment worth treating well. That employees in states with higher minimum wages also have greater job mobility because if a company treats them like shit, they can move to another without worrying that they’re gonna be starting at bare bones wages again.

97 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:54:17pm

It could be a mis-reading of history but I’ve come to believe that Hitler was, at least, in the beginning just a useful tool by Western capitalists and the Church to stop creeping Communism from overrunning Europe. All this talk of left and right is a smoke-screen.

But one thing Hitler was was a Christian crusader. He made statements like:

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.”

and

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…

Every time I heard Santorum speak, my skin crawled.

98 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:55:31pm

re: #97 NomadicView

It could be a mis-reading of history but I’ve come to believe that Hitler was, at least, in the beginning just a useful tool by Western capitalists and the Church to stop creeping Communism from overrunning Europe. All this talk of left and right is a smoke-screen.

But one thing Hitler was was a Christian crusader. He made statements like:

and

Every time I heard Santorum speak, my skin crawled.

To be fair, Hitler made disparaging statements about religion behind the scenes. I think he used religion as a tool. Now, I’m with you. I cringe everytime I hear Rick Santorum speak.

99 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:56:01pm

re: #89 FriendsofHummus

Honestly, I don’t know why more executives think like that. I think it helps to pay your employees a good wage and give them good benefits. Forget where this comes from originally and hell it may be Ford himself but you do want your employees to be customers of your product. Paying your employees shitty wages and limiting their benefits I think is just a bad business model. And I’m not even speculating on the ethics part of it.

ford actually said in public that the reason he instituted the famous $5 day was that his turnover in his assembly lines was too fast when he paid less, so he lost more on hiring costs than what he saved on wages. it also means that he realized that paying employees more meant better commitment and therefore better work results

he may also have realized that paying his workers more meant they would be more likely to afford a ford car but if he did he was loathe to admit it

100 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:56:08pm

re: #95 Kragar (Antichrist )

Talk to the Hand: Glenn Beck Explains Extremism

I’m telling you, dude’s doing drugs again.

101 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:57:58pm

re: #97 NomadicView

It could be a mis-reading of history but I’ve come to believe that Hitler was, at least, in the beginning just a useful tool by Western capitalists and the Church to stop creeping Communism from overrunning Europe. All this talk of left and right is a smoke-screen.

But one thing Hitler was was a Christian crusader. He made statements like:

and

Every time I heard Santorum speak, my skin crawled.

Hitler was only nominally religious. He would invoke the religious schtick when he needed to appeal to the majority of German Christians, but he used to say less than pleasant things about religion when he talked privately.

102 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:59:06pm
103 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:59:18pm

re: #79 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Costco CEO: Raise the minimum wage to more than $10 / hr

Welcome to Costco.
I love you.
Welcome to Costco.
I love you.

104 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 2:59:30pm

re: #97 NomadicView

It could be a mis-reading of history but I’ve come to believe that Hitler was, at least, in the beginning just a useful tool by Western capitalists and the Church to stop creeping Communism from overrunning Europe. All this talk of left and right is a smoke-screen.

But one thing Hitler was was a Christian crusader. He made statements like:

and

Every time I heard Santorum speak, my skin crawled.

the nazis made an unsuccessful push to nazi-fy the church in germany

105 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:00:25pm

That Twitter archive feature is great. You can dig up old tweets on any subject with the search function.

106 Political Atheist  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:00:30pm

So James O’Keefe actually has $100,000 to pay this?! WTH?
Or maybe this is just a bankruptcy in waiting.

107 Slap  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:00pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Apparently, one of the projects that was on the table for Breitbart before he died was some kind of smear job on me.

Easy. You were in Al Jarreu’s band. Initials: AJ.

That must mean you’re Anti-Jewry!

/

108 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:02pm
109 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:04pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

So James O’Keefe actually has $100,000 to pay this?! WTH?
Or maybe this is just a bankruptcy in waiting.

Grifters gotta grift.

110 Tigger2005  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:12pm

Why not bring ACORN back? Why did they surrender to this smear campaign in the first place?

111 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:22pm

re: #69 NomadicView

Another thing that is usually forgotten is how much the Catholic Church excused the fascists, like Hitler and Mussolini. The Church signed non-interference treaties with both of them. (That’s how Vatican City came into being). That’s why it really pissed me off to hear bishops like Jenky comparing Obama to fascist, like Hitler and Stalin.

The Catholic areas of Germany were pretty much the only parts of the country (besides Berlin) that voted against the Nazis. The laity and the clergy were not in total concordance.

Image: NSDAP_Wahl_1933.png

112 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:38pm

re: #101 Dr Lizardo

Hitler was only nominally religious. He would invoke the religious schtick when he needed to appeal to the majority of German Christians, but he used to say less than pleasant things about religion when he talked privately.

As I recall, there is pretty good evidence that various conservative, business, and anti-Communist interests in Germany viewed Hitler as a useful tool against the communists. One telling point is that Hitler’s failed beer hall putsch eventually came before a very forgiving (i.e., ideologically biased) court, and no real punishment was handed out.

Of course, once he had the power to do so, Hitler reversed the roles of user and used.

113 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:41pm

re: #97 NomadicView

It could be a mis-reading of history but I’ve come to believe that Hitler was, at least, in the beginning just a useful tool by Western capitalists and the Church to stop creeping Communism from overrunning Europe. All this talk of left and right is a smoke-screen.

But one thing Hitler was was a Christian crusader. He made statements like:

and

Every time I heard Santorum speak, my skin crawled.

By all accounts, his shows of religion were calculated rather than sincere. Both religious philosophy and institutions he tended to view in terms of their functional worth…that is, how they embodied or could be bent to embody his particular worldview of eternal racial struggle, martial authoritarianism, and antisemitism.

114 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:02:53pm

Ever-deceptive FRC twists 50+ yr old hit piece into supposed battle plan

The Naked Communist was not an actual book written by actual communists—it was a conservative hit piece in which Cleon Skousen, a rabidly conservative anti-Communist (he worked with the John Birch Society), drummed up “Red Scare” era fears with this list of supposed goals. These were not actual goals but rather conservative fears that they wanted to use to scare the public.

115 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:03:29pm

re: #104 engineer cat

the nazis made an unsuccessful push to nazi-fy the church in germany

Positive Christianity. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

There was an also an idea pushed by some of the loopier Nazis to replace Christianity altogether.

116 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:03:51pm
117 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:04:11pm

re: #110 Tigger2005

Why not bring ACORN back? Why did they surrender to this smear campaign in the first place?

This smear job got ACORN defunded by Congress.

118 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:04:14pm

re: #110 Tigger2005

Why not bring ACORN back? Why did they surrender to this smear campaign in the first place?

Because congress got their funding destroyed.

119 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:04:37pm

Dear wingnuts,
Image: Acorn.jpg

120 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:05:19pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

So James O’Keefe actually has $100,000 to pay this?! WTH?
Or maybe this is just a bankruptcy in waiting.

Cost of doing business, if his backers are plutocrats.

121 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:05:22pm

re: #99 engineer cat

ford actually said in public that the reason he instituted the famous $5 day was that his turnover in his assembly lines was too fast when he paid less, so he lost more on hiring costs than what he saved on wages. it also means that he realized that paying employees more meant better commitment and therefore better work results

he may also have realized that paying his workers more meant they would be more likely to afford a ford car but if he did he was loathe to admit it

Ford was, at his core, a practical guy who wanted to get the most out of whatever he invested. Kingsford charcoal came out of a plan to recycle wood scrap from the auto plant, and he was a big promoter of the adoption of plastics and biofuels into auto production, with legend having it that the Model T was originally designed to run on grain alcohol.

At the same time, the guy was also an authoritarian at heart, such that he actually had a division of the Motor Company dedicated to investigating the lives of his workers and using that information to punish or even fire immoral workers. And he absolutely hated labor unions, which he felt exploited workers to keep their power, and the Ford Motor Company was the last in Detroit to recognize the UAW.

122 Tigger2005  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:05:29pm

re: #117 EPR-radar

This smear job got ACORN defunded by Congress.

Time to change the Congress then…long past time

123 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:05:32pm

re: #119 Varek Raith

Dear wingnuts,
Image: Acorn.jpg

Jim HOFT that is.

124 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:05:58pm

re: #114 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ever-deceptive FRC twists 50+ yr old hit piece into supposed battle plan

In sharp contrast, I am not aware of any persuasive denial that the Wedge Document of US dominionists is genuine.

125 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:06:35pm

re: #110 Tigger2005

Why not bring ACORN back? Why did they surrender to this smear campaign in the first place?

Congress cut their umbilical.

126 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:06:48pm

re: #115 Dr Lizardo

Positive Christianity. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

There was an also an idea pushed by some of the loopier Nazis to replace Christianity altogether.

Supposedly Himmer had this weird thing going on relating to King Henry the Fowler. And he was probably the person who wrote the feuersprüchen intonations during the book burnings.

127 Tigger2005  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:06:52pm

re: #118 Kragar (Antichrist )

Because congress got their funding destroyed.

Could it be funded by private donations?

128 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:07:20pm

re: #122 Tigger2005

Time to change the Congress then…long past time

There is a tea bagger infestation in the House that is going to be difficult to get under control.

129 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:07:27pm

re: #101 Dr Lizardo

Hitler was only nominally religious. He would invoke the religious schtick when he needed to appeal to the majority of German Christians, but he used to say less than pleasant things about religion when he talked privately.

The evidence of him being against all religion is very thin on the ground and controversial. There is as much, and more, evidence that he sincerely believed that he was chosen by god. His hostility towards organized religions (when not co-opting them) makes more sense to me as competitors; he sincerely believed his own mystic bullshit.

130 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:07:30pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Andrew looks like he’s toast, there. Prescient.

131 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:07:41pm

Here’s an amusing quote, poo-pooing the idea that Ford gave a hoot about his workers, courtesy of Heritage.org

..Paying high wages to valuable employees wasn’t a redistributive plan—it was good business.
He estimated that the high wage reduced the number of new employees he had to hire and train by 200,000 people per year.
Henry Ford was the Steve Jobs of his day, and cars were iPods of the 1920s. Just as Apple pays high wages to engineers to produce cutting-edge gadgets, so Ford paid high wages to retain skilled labor to build cars. Ford paid these wages because the market allowed—nay, demanded—them. Far from driving a top-down progressive policy, Ford was effectively responding to the needs of the market.

Nay, I say. Heritage refuses to let any suggestion of respect for labor getting in the way of good business practice.

132 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:08:03pm

re: #115 Dr Lizardo

There was an also an idea pushed by some of the loopier Nazis to replace Christianity altogether.

Yeah, Himmler was big on inventing a new, truly “Germanic” religion—well, he thought of it as re-discovering an ancient esoteric tradition through mystic means. Sort of cobbled together a bunch of stuff from Theosophism and some German mystics.

133 Tigger2005  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:08:04pm

re: #128 EPR-radar

There is a tea bagger infestation in the House that is going to be difficult to get under control.

Who ya gonna call?

134 b_sharp  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:09:10pm

re: #124 EPR-radar

In sharp contrast, I am not aware of any persuasive denial that the Wedge Document of US dominionists is genuine.

I believe the Wedge document was a Discovery Institute creation. There is no doubt of its existence.

135 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:10:15pm

Also Hitler had only one big ball.
Goering had two but they were small.
Himmler had something similar.
And Goebells had no balls at all.

136 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:10:30pm

re: #104 engineer cat

Some people also try to claim that Hitler was a neo-pagan. This (actual, bona-fide) quote should dispel that idea.

“It seems to be inexpressibly stupid to allow a revival of the cult of Odin/Wotan. Our old mythology of the gods was defunct, and incapable of revival, when Christianity came…the whole world of antiquity either followed philosophical systems on the one hand, or worshipped the gods. But in modern times it is undesirable that all humanity should make such a fool of itself.” -Adolf Hitler, October 14 1941. From Adolf Hitler’s Monologues in Field Headquarters, 1941-1944 by Heinrich Heims.

137 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:11:59pm

re: #135 NomadicView

Also Hitler had only one big ball.
Goering had two but they were small.
Himmler had something similar.
And Goebells had no balls at all.

COL Bogey, is that you?

138 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:12:01pm

re: #121 Targetpractice

Ford was, at his core, a practical guy who wanted to get the most out of whatever he invested. Kingsford charcoal came out of a plan to recycle wood scrap from the auto plant, and he was a big promoter of the adoption of plastics and biofuels into auto production, with legend having it that the Model T was originally designed to run on grain alcohol.

At the same time, the guy was also an authoritarian at heart, such that he actually had a division of the Motor Company dedicated to investigating the lives of his workers and using that information to punish or even fire immoral workers. And he absolutely hated labor unions, which he felt exploited workers to keep their power, and the Ford Motor Company was the last in Detroit to recognize the UAW.

Battle of the Overpass.

139 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:12:03pm

re: #129 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There was an interesting Atlantic article on this subject, it’s called “Hitler’s Forgotten Library”:

Hitler’s selective reading—or nonreading—of the pseudo-theological texts in his library makes those books he did read, and especially those in which he left marginalia, all the more significant. Here is where the Hitler Library is most useful. In the Fichte volumes given to him by Riefenstahl, I encountered a veritable blizzard of underlines, question marks, exclamation points, and marginal strikes that sweeps across a hundred printed pages of dense theological prose. Where Fichte peeled away the spiritual trappings of the Holy Trinity, positing the Father as “a natural universal force,” the Son as the “physical embodiment of this force,” and the Holy Ghost as an expression of the “light of reason,” Hitler not only underlined the entire passage but placed a thick vertical line in the margin, and added an exclamation point for good measure.

As I traced the penciled notations, I realized that Hitler was seeking a path to the divine that led to just one place. Fichte asked, “Where did Jesus derive the power that has held his followers for all eternity?” Hitler drew a dense line beneath the answer: “Through his absolute identification with God.” At another point Hitler highlighted a brief but revealing paragraph: “God and I are One. Expressed simply in two identical sentences—His life is mine; my life is his. My work is his work, and his work my work.

140 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:12:53pm

re: #131 NomadicView

Here’s an amusing quote, poo-pooing the idea that Ford gave a hoot about his workers, courtesy of Heritage.org

Nay, I say. Heritage refuses to let any suggestion of respect for labor getting in the way of good business practice.

Well, it’s actually got a point. Ford instituted the $5/day pay rate at a time when a department that composed of 100 workers was hiring 300 workers in a year. Paying the best rates not only attracts good workers, it serves as incentive for them to stay on and for their managers to treat them as investments instead of as replaceable.

141 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:13:54pm

re: #129 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The evidence of him being against all religion is very thin on the ground and controversial. There is as much, and more, evidence that he sincerely believed that he was chosen by god. His hostility towards organized religions (when not co-opting them) makes more sense to me as competitors; he sincerely believed his own mystic bullshit.

He had a strong messianic complex, and he believed - with every fiber of his being - that he’d been “… selected by Providence to bring the German nation to greatness.” I have no doubt he devoutly believed, right up to that instant when that bullet went through his head, that he was on some sort of mission from God.

142 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:14:00pm

Update: State Dept. delays honor for activist over inflammatory tweets on Jews

The Obama administration delayed honoring an Egyptian human rights activist after discovering tweets on her Twitter feed celebrating a deadly terrorist attack on Israelis.

Victoria Nuland, the State Department spokeswoman, said Thursday that Samira Ibrahim was on her way back to Egypt and would not participate in a State Department ceremony Friday what will honor nine other recipients of the International Women of Courage Award. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and First Lady Michelle Obama will preside at the ceremony.

143 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:14:15pm

re: #140 Targetpractice

It’s funnier that Heritage is so horrified by the idea that maybe Ford just wanted to pay people more because it was decent and fair.

144 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:15:55pm

re: #143 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s funnier that Heritage is so horrified by the idea that maybe Ford just wanted to pay people more because it was decent and fair.

I hate to agree with Heritage on anything, but I think Ford was more likely concerned about turnover cost than decency to his employees.

145 Targetpractice  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:16:29pm

re: #143 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s funnier that Heritage is so horrified by the idea that maybe Ford just wanted to pay people more because it was decent and fair.

Not that surprising, but then again, a lot of folks (myself included) often cite it as an example of a business paying something like a “living wage” to his workers, when it had more to do with cutting the company’s annual losses due to high turnover.

146 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:18:41pm

re: #133 Tigger2005

Who ya gonna call?

Baggerbusters?

147 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:19:57pm

NK threatened to nuke us!
Quick, get me some boots so that I may shake in them!

148 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:20:33pm

re: #144 EPR-radar

I hate to agree with Heritage on anything, but I think Ford was more likely concerned about turnover cost than decency to his employees.

It’s entirely possible, even probable. The higher wage structure is almost always a competitive benefit.

To give the opposite example, LusasArts pays substantially below market wage. They get tons of people coming there, because it’s still LucasArts, and there’s a lot of prestige. But people also leave, regularly, their journeymen, because with LucasArts on their resume other companies know that they got good training and can work in a very disciplined way, and the other companies can tempt them with higher wages.

But companies develop cultures, even while those cultures are actually interfering with the best business decisions. It’s sickly fascinating.

149 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:21:03pm

A rare live capture of a big fish
Bin Laden son-in-law charged in N.Y. court

Federal law enforcement officials did not elaborate on the details of Ghayth’s arrest, but Rep. Pete King, R-N.Y., who first confirmed the operative’s capture, said he was taken into custody a week ago in Jordan.

An interesting detail….

Soon after Sept. 11 and following the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, then al Qaeda’s base of operations, U.S. authorities said Ghayth fled to Iran, along with other members of the terror group.
….
Bruce Hoffman, director of Georgetown University’s Center for Peace and Security Studies, said Ghayth—one of the few recent al Qaeda leaders to be captured alive—may be able to provide important information on al Qaeda’s relationship with Iran and how the terror group moved money and people throughout the region.

150 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:23:52pm

re: #148 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s entirely possible, even probable. The higher wage structure is almost always a competitive benefit.

To give the opposite example, LusasArts pays substantially below market wage. They get tons of people coming there, because it’s still LucasArts, and there’s a lot of prestige. But people also leave, regularly, their journeymen, because with LucasArts on their resume other companies know that they got good training and can work in a very disciplined way, and the other companies can tempt them with higher wages.

But companies develop cultures, even while those cultures are actually interfering with the best business decisions. It’s sickly fascinating.

With respect to Ford, I’m going by his antagonism toward unions more than anything else.

The larger point is that the market is completely amoral —- whatever works has the blessing of the market, for what little that is worth. If it ‘works’ for US companies to send significant numbers of jobs overseas, then that is what will happen.

151 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:25:01pm

re: #148 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s entirely possible, even probable. The higher wage structure is almost always a competitive benefit.

To give the opposite example, LusasArts pays substantially below market wage. They get tons of people coming there, because it’s still LucasArts, and there’s a lot of prestige. But people also leave, regularly, their journeymen, because with LucasArts on their resume other companies know that they got good training and can work in a very disciplined way, and the other companies can tempt them with higher wages.

But companies develop cultures, even while those cultures are actually interfering with the best business decisions. It’s sickly fascinating.

shockley was a genius who was one of the principal inventors of semiconductor technology

he was such an asshole to work with that his best employees quit, founding semiconductor companies, including intel, that would eventually eclipse shockley’s original semiconductor company

later in life he was briefly notorious for some rather racist theories

152 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:25:21pm

A different story here: EXCLUSIVE: Iran was holding bin Laden son-in-law Abu Ghaith, US officials say

U.S. officials say Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, captured last month in Turkey and now in New York, has spent most of the last decade in Iran, in some sort of confinement.
….
bin Laden sent his top managers, al-Qaida’s Management Council, to Iran, arming them with money to bribe their way across the border, according to multiple US and Iranian officials. Bin Laden apparently hoped that the Iranians would see the group not as Sunni terrorists but as “an enemy of my enemy,” as one senior US official put it.

Among those who made their way into Iran were Saif al-Adel, al-Qaida’s military director; bin Laden’s son Saad; and Abu Ghaith, the group’s communications director … and also bin Laden’s son-in-law.

At one point not long after its arrival, this group, numbering in the hundreds with family members and bodyguards, was captured by Iranian authorities. Although senior US officials have told NBC News they did not know the conditions of their confinement — “it was the blackest of black boxes,” one former senior U.S. official told NBC News — Iranian officials said the group was “in jail.”

153 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:26:14pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

A rare live capture of a big fish
Bin Laden son-in-law charged in N.Y. court

An interesting detail….

Live is always better.

154 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:26:18pm

re: #150 EPR-radar

With respect to Ford, I’m going by his antagonism toward unions more than anything else.

To me, that’s ‘cuz he liked being the munificent daddy, and the union busted up that illusion.

The larger point is that the market is completely amoral —- whatever works has the blessing of the market, for what little that is worth. If it ‘works’ for US companies to send significant numbers of jobs overseas, then that is what will happen.

Yes. Unrestricted capitalism, real ‘free’ markets are horrorshows.

155 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:27:47pm

re: #140 Targetpractice
Certainly Ford’s labor practices had nothing to do with respect for the worker. Although he cultivated an image of being a protector of the worker, during the Depression, when sales of the Model A fell sharply, he slashed work hours and many jobs were outsourced to low-waged factories. Eventually, after the Dearborn Massacre of 1932, in which several workers were gunned down, he was called the Despot of Dearborn.

156 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:31:07pm

re: #155 NomadicView

Certainly Ford’s labor practices had nothing to do with respect for the worker. Although he cultivated an image of being a protector of the worker, during the Depression, when sales of the Model A fell sharply, he slashed work hours and many jobs were outsourced to low-waged factories. Eventually, after the Dearborn Massacre of 1932, in which several workers were gunned down, he was called the Despot of Dearborn.

also he made life an unremitting hell for his only son edsel

edsel did manage to be responsible for some of the most beautiful ford and lincoln designs of the late 30s, so i consider it an unfair irony of fate that the infamous edsel automobile of the 50s is better known than he is

edsel’s dad rode him unmercifully and caused the ulcer that killed him. i feel for the guy

157 Skip Intro  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:32:22pm

re: #144 EPR-radar

I hate to agree with Heritage on anything, but I think Ford was more likely concerned about turnover cost than decency to his employees.

You’re right. Turnover was very high once the assembly line, where a worker did the same thing over and over, all day long, came into being. Higher wages was Ford’s way of getting his employees to tolerate the mind-numbing boredom of it.

158 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:32:25pm

re: #154 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

To me, that’s ‘cuz he liked being the munificent daddy, and the union busted up that illusion.

Yes. Unrestricted capitalism, real ‘free’ markets are horrorshows.

не хорошо

159 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:32:32pm

OT: UPS just delivered my comet-watching astro binoculars. They are available on Amazon for under $100, and I think Charles gets a taste. Very pleased with their construction. Tomorrow I’ll do a collimation check and a ‘first light’ with Comet PanSTARRS. Massive, they are. (There’s a 15x70 version for about $60.)

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

160 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:34:01pm

re: #9 Randall Gross

O’Keefe, not just a douche, but instead the whole douche kit.

James O’Keefe Douche Kit©

161 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:34:01pm

re: #153 Decatur Deb

Live is always better.

Not always, in a case like this I think it doesn’t make much difference. The chain of custody is interesting. It seems he was originally detained in Turkey, sent to Kuwait and Jordan before we took custody of him.

162 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:34:57pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Not always, in a case like this I think it doesn’t make much difference. The chain of custody is interesting. It seems he was originally detained in Turkey, sent to Kuwait and Jordan before we took custody of him.

He’s likely to tell us more than his FIL.

163 NomadicView  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:35:13pm

re: #111 dragonath
About the priests who were not in concordance with the Church’s agreements with Hitler. There are some photos that survive that balance that opinion.

Image: priests-salute.jpg
Link

164 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:36:25pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Not always, in a case like this I think it doesn’t make much difference. The chain of custody is interesting. It seems he was originally detained in Turkey, sent to Kuwait and Jordan before we took custody of him.

I’m amused by the fact that Iran apparently didn’t buy into the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ line that was pitched to them by AQ.

165 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:37:34pm

Here’s a picture of hired Ford goons beating on Walter Reuther.

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org…]

166 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:37:39pm

re: #162 Decatur Deb

He’s likely to tell us more than his FIL.

I don’t think he’s been operational for quite some time being held in Iranian custody for the past 10 years. We probably know more about al Qaeda than he does at this point.

167 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:38:28pm

any other writers here on LGF?

I’ve been working on a story but I haven’t had much luck lately finding time to work on it. Between work, errands and housework it’s hard to find moments to write.

168 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:38:56pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

I don’t think he’s been operational for quite some time being held in Iranian custody for the past 10 years. We probably know more about al Qaeda than he does at this point.

I should hope so. Otherwise we really have been screwing up this war on terror.

169 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:39:29pm

re: #165 dragonath

Here’s a picture of hired Ford goons beating on Walter Reuther.

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org…]

How come old timey guys always wore hats?

170 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:43:33pm

re: #167 Eclectic Cyborg

I just do it absolutely first thing in the morning, with morning coffee. Before writers block can set in you can write a lot.

171 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:43:48pm

re: #169 Eclectic Cyborg

How come old timey guys always wore hats?

Goon’s gotta maintain his dignity.

172 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:43:52pm

re: #169 Eclectic Cyborg

How come old timey guys always wore hats?

Because a man always wore a hat when he went out. It was the fashion of that time.

173 b_sharp  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:44:12pm

re: #160 Gus

James O’Keefe Douche Kit(c)

I was expecting a different kind of bag.

174 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:44:38pm

re: #170 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I just do it absolutely first thing in the morning, with morning coffee. Before writers block can set in you can write a lot.

Grand idea, but I work mornings so no go for me.

175 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:44:56pm

Wind Storm/ Hail,, 1

Sattys House Roof , 0

ughh

176 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:45:15pm

re: #173 b_sharp

I was expecting a different kind of bag.

How’s about this?

177 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:45:51pm

Byyyyy Men-nen.

Kwa kwa kwa

178 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:46:09pm

re: #175 sattv4u2

Wind Storm/ Hail,, 1

Sattys House Roof , 0

ughh

Are you facing a Good Handjob?

179 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:46:30pm

re: #164 EPR-radar

I’m amused by the fact that Iran apparently didn’t buy into the ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ line that was pitched to them by AQ.

It’s a shia/sunni thing. Also the Iranians understand the value of hostages. If AQ decided to start messing with Iran they had some well connected hostages to torture. Not waterboarding and loud music but electrodes to the testicles kind of torture.

180 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:46:58pm

re: #177 Gus

Byyyyy Men-nen.

Kwa kwa kwa

chicken bone caught in your throat??

HEIMLICH ,,, STAT!!

181 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:47:05pm

re: #175 sattv4u2

Wind Storm/ Hail,, 1

Sattys House Roof , 0

ughh

Leaks?

182 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:47:54pm

re: #180 sattv4u2

chicken bone caught in your throat??

HEIMLICH ,,, STAT!!

Ek-ook. Ek-ook. Ek-ook. Spleeeeeg.

183 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:48:40pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

Are you facing a Good Handjob?

I wish!! (wait ,, that’s something different)

Roofer was out today (not a fly by nighter) . He’s 99% confident he can get it okayed through an insurance claim

184 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:48:52pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Not waterboarding and loud music but electrodes to the testicles kind of torture.

Waterboarding is actual torture, of course, Killgore.

185 geoffm33  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:49:44pm

You know who else posed with people?

186 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:50:14pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Leaks?

No, but lots of pitting from the hail and significant portions of shingles loose or missing from the wind

187 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:51:37pm

re: #183 sattv4u2

I wish!! (wait ,, that’s something different)

Roofer was out today (not a fly by nighter) . He’s 99% confident he can get it okayed through an insurance claim

Watch his work. When I removed my roof a couple years ago I found the insurance-recommended crew had done the entire thing with staples. (Made it easy to scrape off.)

188 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:52:57pm

re: #180 sattv4u2

chicken bone caught in your throat??

HEIMLICH ,,, STAT!!

I feel like Chicken tonight…like Chicken tonight

189 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:53:30pm

re: #163 NomadicView

About the priests who were not in concordance with the Church’s agreements with Hitler. There are some photos that survive that balance that opinion.

Image: priests-salute.jpg
Link

It doesn’t excuse the Catholic Church’s epic gutlessness, but I’m pretty sure it was pretty easy to find at least six people to give a salute in Nazi Germany.

Some of Hitler’s most enthusiastic supporters were rabidly anti-Catholic.

Also, that suite enthusiastically links to “Islam Watch”, which “tells the truth about Islam”…

190 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:54:00pm

re: #187 Decatur Deb

Watch his work. When I removed my roof a couple years ago I found the insurance-recommended crew had done the entire thing with staples. (Made it easy to scrape off.)

Roofer comes highly recommended by a high end builder I know as well as the guy that’s done some renovation work for us over the years, NOT the insurance companies ‘“preferred” contractor

(this isn’t my 1st rodeo)

191 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:54:56pm
192 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:55:42pm

re: #189 dragonath

It doesn’t excuse the Catholic Church’s epic gutlessness, but I’m pretty sure it was pretty easy to find at least six people to give a salute in Nazi Germany.

Some of Hitler’s most enthusiastic supporters were rabidly anti-Catholic.

Also, that suite enthusiastically links to “Islam Watch”, which “tells the truth about Islam”…

And the White Rose resistance kids were a bunch of Bavarian Catholic Socialists, so its something of a wash.

193 geoffm33  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 3:59:24pm
194 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:00:47pm

re: #188 Eclectic Cyborg

I feel like Chicken tonight…like Chicken tonight

(sings)
don’t cook tonite - call chicken delite!
don’t cook tonite - call chicken delite!
don’t cook tonite - call chicken delite!
yessss sirrrrrr!

195 geoffm33  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:03:29pm
196 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:03:55pm

Derp.

Recientemente el Departamento de Seguridad Nacional, a través de un contrato cerrado por el Pentágono, ha modernizado 2.717 de estos vehículos resistentes a minas para su servicio en las calles de Estados Unidos.

197 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:05:21pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

Leaks?

Now that you mention it ,,,, yes

Image: 7132d1325111853-wiki-leaks-leak.jpg

and

Image: leeks.jpg
//

198 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:06:27pm

re: #196 Gus

Derp.

From Russia Hoy?

199 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:07:28pm

re: #198 wrenchwench

From Russia Hoy?

Si. We’re doomed!!

200 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:08:26pm

pin heads.

201 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:08:31pm

re: #199 Gus

Si. We’re doomed!!

Somos chingados!

202 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:08:54pm

re: #199 Gus

Si. We’re doomed!!

203 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:10:27pm

derpderpderp

204 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:10:27pm

re: #200 Shvaughn

pin heads.

As they say. Once something goes on the internet it never leaves the internet. In many cases, so does hoaxes and misinformation.

205 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:12:14pm

re: #195 geoffm33

#StandWithRandy

Ooooooooooh yeah!!

206 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:12:16pm

re: #203 Shvaughn

Well, ramblings, y’know.

207 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:12:21pm

they can’t put anything on the internet that isn’t true

208 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:12:57pm

re: #203 Shvaughn

derpderpderp

Gosh, all he has left to acquire is a black cape, dark helmet and breathing apparatus.

209 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:13:19pm

re: #204 Gus

(((207 was for you)))

210 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:13:42pm

re: #196 Gus

Derp.

Ay caramba!

211 Single-handed sailor  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:14:07pm

re: #203 Shvaughn

derpderpderp

Not to mention he also has the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard.

212 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:15:19pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

they can’t put anything on the internet that isn’t true

[Embedded content]

“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.” — Mark Twain

213 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:15:42pm

because benghazi or something

214 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:16:01pm

re: #208 Eclectic Cyborg

Gosh, all he has left to acquire is a black cape, dark helmet and breathing apparatus.

The ability to use force powers on obstructionists would be a definite plus. //

215 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:17:07pm

re: #214 EPR-radar

The ability to use force powers on obstructionists would be a definite plus. //

“Apology accepted, Mr. Paul.”

216 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:17:13pm
217 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:17:26pm

The Rat Derp Patrol!

218 sattv4u2  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:18:04pm

re: #212 Gus

“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.” — Mark Twain

Noted French model,, I met him on the internet!!

(bonjour!!)

219 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:18:20pm

re: #216 Shvaughn

You’ll love this.

220 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:18:39pm
221 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:18:46pm

Now, if somehow Michael Moore can be shown for the douchebag he is, we’d be on a roll … .

222 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:20:37pm

re: #221 FemNaziBitch

Now, if somehow Michael Moore can be shown for the douchebag he is, we’d be on a roll … .

I’m assuming Michael Moore is severely biased when he does his documentaries, but has Moore actually engaged in O’Keefe-level fraud?

223 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:20:51pm

Snopes has a page on the 2,717 tanks.

It’s not nearly as complete as your debunking page, Gus.

[Link: www.snopes.com…]

224 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:20:53pm

re: #197 sattv4u2

Now that you mention it ,,,, yes

Image: 7132d1325111853-wiki-leaks-leak.jpg

and

Image: leeks.jpg
//

Leeks!

225 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:22:21pm

re: #222 EPR-radar

I’m assuming Michael Moore is severely biased when he does his documentaries, but has Moore actually engaged in O’Keefe-level fraud?

No, he is smarter than O’Keefe.

O’Keefe is the stupid version of Moore.

Just hoping that if the really, really bad journalists get checked in court, the mainstream might get a spot light put on them.

226 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:23:08pm

Foreign Policy updated their story with the Business Insider story.

As one would expect, tales of DHS buying 2,700 MRAPs from the Army (in reality, DHS only has 16, a fleet that it started building around 2008) inflamed the government conspiracy corners of the blogosphere. Just do a quick Google search of the term DHS MRAP and you can see for yourself.

Derp. Some people are still seeing oog-booga because they have 16. 16 IS STILL TO MANY!!!

227 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:23:12pm

This has pissed me off since I viewed it. direct link

I also Paged it.

228 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:23:34pm

re: #226 Gus

Foreign Policy updated their story with the Business Insider story.

Derp. Some people are still seeing oog-booga because they have 16. 16 IS STILL TO MANY!!!

How many is too many?

229 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:23:50pm

re: #200 Shvaughn

pin heads.

The explanation is quite simple, sir. You are an idiot.

230 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:23:56pm

re: #223 Shvaughn

Snopes has a page on the 2,717 tanks.

It’s not nearly as complete as your debunking page, Gus.

[Link: www.snopes.com…]

Ha! I beat them all! FP and Snopers. :D

Sometimes I’m awake.

231 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:24:06pm

re: #223 Shvaughn

Snopes has a page on the 2,717 tanks.

It’s not nearly as complete as your debunking page, Gus.

[Link: www.snopes.com…]

… actually, that Snopes page is outright wrong.

It says DHS retrofitted the MRAPs, they didn’t.

232 AlexRogan  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:24:53pm

re: #230 Gus

Ha! I beat them all! FP and Snopers. :D

Sometimes I’m awake.

The early worm gets the bird.

/

233 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:26:41pm

Georgia Republican proposes relaxing gun restrictions on mentally ill

State Rep. Rick Jasperse (R) told The Associated Press that his bill — titled the “Safe Carry Protection Act” — would allow people who have voluntarily sought out treatment for mental illness and substance abuse to get a firearm license.

The measure would also do away with fingerprinting requirements for license renewals and permit guns in bars, churches and college campuses.

234 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:27:47pm

re: #227 FemNaziBitch

This has pissed me off since I viewed it. direct link

I also Paged it.

That is pretty blatantly fucked up.

235 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:30:38pm

re: #225 FemNaziBitch

No, he is smarter than O’Keefe.

O’Keefe is the stupid version of Moore.

Just hoping that if the really, really bad journalists get checked in court, the mainstream might get a spot light put on them.

In WIkipedia, the worst thing I could find on a quick read was apparently that Moore fooled with the time line in ‘Roger and Me’ to spice up his cause and effect narrative.

Not admirable, but closer to mainstream journalism than O’Keefe territory. Am I missing something here?

236 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:30:38pm

re: #234 Shvaughn

That is pretty blatantly fucked up.

Would they have done that to a white kid?

237 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:30:55pm

re: #236 FemNaziBitch

Would they have done that to a white kid?

Of course not.

238 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:31:14pm

re: #235 EPR-radar

In WIkipedia, the worst thing I could find on a quick read was apparently that Moore fooled with the time line in ‘Roger and Me’ to spice up his cause and effect narrative.

Not admirable, but closer to mainstream journalism than O’Keefe territory. Am I missing something here?

He presents a biased product as truth. It’s shitty journalism.

239 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:32:18pm

re: #237 EPR-radar

Of course not.

And that kid was sooooo freakin’ cute. Sorry, my first reaction was to hug him.

240 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:33:03pm

LOL, this is hilarious, there are now 2,701 “missing” MRAPs:

241 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:33:07pm

re: #231 Shvaughn

… actually, that Snopes page is outright wrong.

It says DHS retrofitted the MRAPs, they didn’t.

Oh. They’re saying that it’s also based on a year old lie that the DHS was retrofitting tanks. That actually came from Firedoglake.

I didn’t search anything and didn’t find about the other stuff later. I just the 2,717 figure at that prepper site and searched 2,717 MRAP site:.gov and boom, there it was. 2nd link. Took me about a minute.

242 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:33:35pm

I’m too pissed to post.

later all

243 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:34:24pm

re: #240 Shvaughn

LOL, this is hilarious, there are now 2,701 “missing” MRAPs:

OFFS

244 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:34:27pm

re: #222 EPR-radar

I’m assuming Michael Moore is severely biased when he does his documentaries, but has Moore actually engaged in O’Keefe-level fraud?

He’s smarter about it. Since he’s a propagandist for profit the bottom line matters and he takes care to avoid lawsuits and stuff that could cost him money.

245 jaunte  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:35:47pm

re: #240 Shvaughn

If they’re “missing,” why should he stop at 2701?

246 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:36:10pm

re: #245 jaunte

If they’re “missing,” why should he stop at 2701?

THERE ARE A MILLION MISSING TANKS!!!!

247 jaunte  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:36:37pm

re: #246 Kragar (Antichrist )

PROVE THAT I’M WRONG!!!

248 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:36:58pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

He’s smarter about it. Since he’s a propagandist for profit the bottom line matters and he takes care to avoid lawsuits and stuff that could cost him money.

Killgore lecturing about people lacking integrity and credibility is always one of my favorite happenings here at LGF.

I’ma just drop this here and move on:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

249 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:37:10pm

re: #238 FemNaziBitch

He presents a biased product as truth. It’s shitty journalism.

The difficulty here is that journalists all have their biases, and end up telling their versions of the truth.

So I don’t there there is any such thing as completely unbiased journalism. I’ll settle for journalism that is not egregiously biased, but that is admittedly a vague standard.

250 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:47:11pm

DERP. FAIL.

251 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:48:05pm

re: #249 EPR-radar

There are other documentarians doing more honest and good work than Moore.

This is an excellent one:


Surviving Progress

252 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:48:39pm

re: #250 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAIL.

Then you can roar from prison for not paying your taxes.

253 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:49:34pm

re: #250 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAIL.

@StruggleNot Send in a BLANK TAX RETURN. Write on it: “What difference does it make?” They need to hear us roar! #tcot #RedNationRising #teaparty #tgdn

Oh honey, I think you’ll find it makes quite a bit of difference. But don’t listen to me prattle on… you go ahead and try that. Lemme know how it turns out for you.

254 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:50:19pm

re: #252 FriendsofHummus

Then you can roar from prison for not paying your taxes.

Maybe they can make Atlas Shrugged Pt. III with Wesley Snipes.

255 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:51:03pm

re: #254 erik_t

Maybe they can make Atlas Shrugged Pt. III with Wesley Snipes.

Heh.

256 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:51:07pm

Is Michael Moore even relevant any more?

257 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:51:47pm

re: #256 Shvaughn

Is Michael Moore even relevant any more?

Not for the last decade or so.

258 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:52:29pm

re: #256 Shvaughn

Is Michael Moore even relevant any more?

Not if by relevant you mean pretty much forgotten since the Bush years ended.

259 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:56:41pm

re: #254 erik_t

Maybe they can make Atlas Shrugged Pt. III with Wesley Snipes.

lol.

260 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:56:46pm

Over at Jim Derp’s site. Latest comments.

crystal • a day ago

Check your facts. The 2,700 vehicles are not for DHS but the USMC by way of the US Navy. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.co……]
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cbpelto crystal • 12 hours ago

If all these vehicles are for the Marine Corps, please do the math and explain why this contract for 2717 armored combat vehicles is enough for NINE DIVISIONS.

The Marine Corps only has three or four such formations.

Where are the excess vehicles to go? Piles of rust in motor pools? Or some other organization?
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Sam Meyers crystal • 20 hours ago

Your comment doesn’t make sense. USMC has their own acquisition center and equipment, trucks, etc were acquired by the USMC.

The trucks we are discussing have the emblem of the Homeland Security Department.

USMC is under the US Dept of Defense and is for the defense of the USA on foreign soil. Homeland Security is for the defense of USA within our own borders.

This is the reason people are confused and troubled by the recent developments. Why would Homeland Security need to acquire military style vehicles, purchase millions of assault weapons, stock pile ammunition, set up internment camps across the US?
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cbpelto Sam Meyers • 12 hours ago

TO: Sam Meyers
RE: Why?

Why would Homeland Security need to acquire military style vehicles, purchase millions of assault weapons, stock pile ammunition…. — Sam Meyers

Because DHS is becoming the American equivalent of Hitler’s Waffen SS (Armed State Security). The Waffen SS was armed like the Wehrmark. But it held allegiance ONLY to Hitler and the Nazi party.

And I wonder what oath the members of DHS’s armed branch take? Does it include “uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”? Or is their allegiance just sworn to the President?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[History repeats itself. That’s one of the problems with History.]
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cbpelto crystal • 21 hours ago

You believe Charles Johnson?

What a tool…..

261 simoom  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:56:52pm

This tweet had me checking the transcript of RP’s filibuster stunt:

[Link: www.latimes.com…]

With regard to releasing the — the memos on how they come about their process, some of that was leaked. It’s always curious to me, it seems almost as if the leaks come on purpose, as if they were intentional, the leaks happen right before a nomination process. I don’t know the truth of that but I do think that not only should we get the memos but we — if there’s going to be a drone strike program in America, perhaps we should actually be writing the rules and sending them to the President and that would be our job, not to listen to him on when he’s going to do drone strikes in America but actually to spelling out and having an open discussion. Because in America, I don’t think that should be a secret how we’re going to — you know, how we’re going to go about this in America. So I see no reason not only to get the drone memos and I think it would be more consistent not only with their earlier position, but I think what we should do is really be a part of the process of determining how we go forward with, if we’re going to have drone strikes in America, what the rules would be.”

“So let’s say there are people going from a Constitution party meeting to a libertarian party meeting. Both these groups don’t like big government. They hate big government. They are opposed to government. They are nonviolent as far as I know but they were on the fusion list for potential terrorists. Are we going to kill people in a caravan going from one meeting to the next?

Hey media, how about not venerating someone who irresponsibly stokes the fears of the militia movement & other assorted conspiracy theorist kooks?

262 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:57:14pm

DERP. FAIL.

263 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 4:59:31pm

re: #251 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There are other documentarians doing more honest and good work than Moore.

This is an excellent one:

Surviving Progress

Thanks for the link. That does look like good work, although it is also in a different category. Moore did his documentaries with a political axe to grind, while the linked documentary looks basically apolitical.

I’m not a big fan of propaganda, but since it is inevitable, I’d at least like to have the competing narratives out there.

264 Kragar (Antichrist )  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:00:51pm

re: #262 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAIL.

States With Most Gun Laws Have Fewest Gun Deaths, Study Finds

States with more gun laws have lower levels of gun fatalities, according to a new study from Boston Children’s Hospital. While the study, published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine, does not establish cause-and-effect, nor which particular gun laws are most effective, it does suggest a positive relationship between gun control and gun violence prevention.

265 jamesfirecat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:01:15pm

re: #203 Shvaughn

derpderpderp

Wow you can tell how great an evil overlord Obama is because he can get those the KKK and the Back Panthers to work together, that must make meetings awkward….

266 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:01:29pm

re: #263 EPR-radar

Thanks for the link. That does look like good work, although it is also in a different category. Moore did his documentaries with a political axe to grind, while the linked documentary looks basically apolitical.

I’m not a big fan of propaganda, but since it is inevitable, I’d at least like to have the competing narratives out there.

Being pro-science, which that definitely is, is definitely political these days, sadly.

It’s a great movie that really makes the point that just because we have the ability to do these things, we shouldn’t necessarily do them. It’s the philosophy of engineering, as it were, a nice populist version of Dennett’s stuff.

267 Bubblehead II  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:03:31pm

Just finished watching the movie “Three Hard ways”

Disturbing to say the least. To the Lizard that pointed it out +1+1000

Viral cleansing of a Racial/Ethnic group, not something I want to contemplate.

268 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:03:31pm

re: #264 Kragar (Antichrist )

States With Most Gun Laws Have Fewest Gun Deaths, Study Finds

It’s also real obvious that map is a fake. Are we supposed to seriously believe that Eastern Iowa and the Iron Range of Minnesota have really high gun related violence? And I can also tell you since I live in Northern Va that gun violence is relatively low here.

269 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:04:19pm

re: #258 FriendsofHummus

Not if by relevant you mean pretty much forgotten since the Bush years ended.

The money for agitprop from the left dried up after Obama was elected. Can’t imagine why.

The last thing the Obama administration/democratic party establishment would want to deal with is effective pressure from the left on issues like banking, civil liberties etc.

270 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:04:35pm

re: #265 jamesfirecat

Wow you can tell how great an evil overlord Obama is because he can get those the KKK and the Back Panthers to work together, that must make meetings awkward….

I want to know what the KKK think of being told that they’re helping Obama out.

271 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:05:31pm

re: #268 FriendsofHummus

It’s also real obvious that map is a fake. Are we supposed to seriously believe that Eastern Iowa and the Iron Range of Minnesota have really high gun related violence? And I can also tell you since I live in Northern Va that gun violence is relatively low here.

ITZ ALL THOSE CANADIAN DRUG GANGS!!!111!!!

272 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:05:51pm

re: #269 EPR-radar

The money for agitprop from the left dried up after Obama was elected. Can’t imagine why.

The last thing the Obama administration/democratic party establishment would want to deal with is effective pressure from the left on issues like banking, civil liberties etc.

Yeah I know. It’s the same reason why the right’s xenophobic insanity was fairly bottled up in the Bush years. Anyhow not a huge Moore fan.

273 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:06:02pm

today’s evening session of the ongoing meeting of the Society for the Study of Fucked Up Things is in progress i see

carry on

274 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:06:17pm

re: #271 Vicious Babushka

We’re going to kick your ass eh!

275 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:07:07pm

re: #272 FriendsofHummus

Yeah I know. It’s the same reason why the right’s xenophobic insanity was fairly bottled up in the Bush years. Anyhow not a huge Moore fan.

Pretty much agreed here. Its just that I’ll take a flawed anti-corporatist messenger over none at all.

276 jamesfirecat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:07:31pm

re: #270 FriendsofHummus

I want to know what the KKK think of being told that they’re helping Obama out.

Must be like how Lord Voldermort convinced the werewolves to side with him even though his organization was openly biased against werewolves… That was one of many things in the HP series which really does not make a lot of sense…

277 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:07:45pm

re: #275 EPR-radar

Pretty much agreed here. Its just that I’ll take a flawed anti-corporatist messenger over none at all.

True that.

278 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:08:10pm
279 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:08:45pm

re: #276 jamesfirecat

Must be like how Lord Voldermort convinced the werewolves to side with him even though his organization was openly biased against werewolves… That was one of many things in the HP series which really does not make a lot of sense…

Wouldn’t know as I’m like the only Gen Yer never to read a HP book. But it amuses me. It’s like when they call Neo-Nazis and white supremacists leftists. I am thinking, yeah you go tell David Duke he’s a leftist with a straight face.

280 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:09:02pm

O’Keefe is worth that?

281 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:09:05pm

re: #271 Vicious Babushka

This is what a drug thoroughfare looks like, eh?

282 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:09:12pm

re: #276 jamesfirecat

Must be like how Lord Voldermort convinced the werewolves to side with him even though his organization was openly biased against werewolves… That was one of many things in the HP series which really does not make a lot of sense…

Actually, I thought that little detail showed a refreshing level of cynicism/realism for children’s books.

283 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:09:50pm

re: #281 erik_t

This is what a drug thoroughfare looks like, eh?

Minnesota Nice is just a cover for drug smuggling dontcha know.

284 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:10:21pm

re: #267 Bubblehead II

Just finished watching the movie “Three Hard ways”

Disturbing to say the least. To the Lizard that pointed it out +1+1000

Viral cleansing of a Racial/Ethnic group, not something I want to contemplate.

It’s considered something of a classic of the blaxploitation genre. Three of the biggest stars of that whole genre from the 70s together in one film, as well.

I can only imagine the reaction from the RWNJ’s if that film was released today in 2013. They’d be experiencing outrageous outrage x 100,000.

Despite the disturbing conceit (racial genocide) when I first saw it I came to the thought that George Lucas must’ve seen that film somewhere along the way because his Imperial Stormtroopers were the sci-fi version of the “evil honky” henchmen in this film; ie, cannon fodder to get shot, fall over, and die. The only thing that was missing was a Wilhelm Scream.

Glad you liked it. It’s one of my favorites from that genre and era.

285 simoom  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:10:37pm

re: #261 simoom

Here’s the part where he compared Obama to Mubarak & Hitler and then said he wasn’t. He also raised the survivalist fantasy of a currency collapse turning us into Nazi Germany:

Are we going to have drone strike programs in America consistent with the applicable law of war? See, the other way to put law of war - and this isn’t a stretch, this is just turning the words around - martial law. Now, people, if you put it that way might have a little bit different impression. Do we want martial law in our country? If you go back to the battle we had over indefinite detention last year, where they are saying they can take a citizen without a trial, actually send them from America to Guantanamo Bay if they are accused of terrorism, - accused, not convicted, accused of terrorism - you start to worry about some of the stuff happening in our country, that this could actually happen. One of the sort of ironies of looking at different governments and looking at what makes people unhappy. In Tahrir Square in Cairo, there have been hundreds of thousands of people protesting, and it’s interesting what they are protesting. They are protesting - one of the large things they protest is something called an emergency decree, which I believe went in place by Mubarak 20-some odd years ago. So you get leaders who come in and they are fearful or they use fear to accumulate power, and you get a decree, so you get martial law. The martial law ironically enough in Egypt allows detention without trial. They do have the right to trial but there is an exception and it’s been excepted for the last 20-some odd years, and the people are hopping mad over it. So we get involved in their country and their politics and give them money and weapons, and we have got some of the same debate and proble here at home. Whether or not you can indefinitely detain.

You know, the president’s response to this was also pretty disappointing. It wouldn’t have become law without him. I think he threatened to veto it and then he signed it anyway. Empty threats are of no value. He struck no great blow for America or for American freedoms by not vetoing this. But when he signed it, he said something similar to what he’s saying now. He said well, I have no intent to indefinitely detain people. Am I the only one in America that’s a little bit, you know, underwhelmed by the President saying he has no intent to dough[?] taken somebody but he is going to sign it into law saying he has the power to? That’s the same thing we’re getting now in this drone strike program. Don’t worry, everything’s okay. I’m your leader, and I would never detain you. I would never shoot Hellfire missiles at noncombatants. I won’t do that. And I can take him at his word, but what about the next guy? And the next guy? In 1923, when they destroyed the currency in Germany, they elected Hitler. I’m not saying anybody’s Hitler, so don’t misunderstand me. I’m saying that there is a danger even in a democratic country that someday you get a leader who comes in in the middle of chaos and says, Those people did it! Those people are the mistake, those people are who we need to rout out. And if the laws have been removed that prevented that from happening, if the laws had been removed that say we can indefinitely detain. In Hitler’s case, he said the Jews, those bankers, the Jews did this to us and they were indefinitely detained. Now, am I saying it’s going to happen in our country? Unlikely. I can’t imagine any of our leaders for all of our disagreements doing that. But if you don’t have the law to protect you, you don’t have that protection, because you do not know who the next guy is, and the next guy, or the next woman.”

286 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:10:56pm

We’re supposed to believe that Vermont is a mecca of gun violence too?

287 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:11:37pm

re: #285 simoom

Here’s the where he compared Obama to Mubarak & Hitler and then said he wasn’t. He also raised the survivalist fantasy of a currency collapse turning us into Weimar Germany:

Wait, wait I thought the right liked Honsi Mubarak and Obama was terrilbe just terrible for letting him getting overthrown.

288 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:11:58pm

re: #285 simoom

He’s a chip off the old block, all right.

289 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:12:02pm

re: #285 simoom

An unexpected benefit of the talking filibuster. Ammunition.

290 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:12:04pm

re: #250 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAIL.

The difference is 60 months in prison for tax fraud.

291 jamesfirecat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:13:07pm

re: #282 EPR-radar

Actually, I thought that little detail showed a refreshing level of cynicism/realism for children’s books.

What that a group A will side with group B over group C even if group B has them more than group C so long as group A promises it will be all milk and honey once they get rid of group C?


I mean hell Hitler showed more respect to the Japanese than Voldermort does to the werewolves.

292 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:15:00pm

Geopolitics makes some fucked up bedfellows but really the KKK aligning with Obama. I guess their outward hatred of Obama is just a cover for how much they love him! Actually I can totally see some right wing twit claiming the KKK’s rise in membership since Obama’s election is proof of such a conspiracy.

293 jamesfirecat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:19:11pm

re: #292 FriendsofHummus

Geopolitics makes some fucked up bedfellows but really the KKK aligning with Obama. I guess their outward hatred of Obama is just a cover for how much they love him! Actually I can totally see some right wing twit claiming the KKK’s rise in membership since Obama’s election is proof of such a conspiracy.

Maybe the KKK is given orders by the white half of Obama while the New Black Panthers are given orders by the black half?

294 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:19:41pm

re: #293 jamesfirecat

Maybe the KkK is given orders by the white half of Obama while the New Black Panthers are given orders by the black half?

That’s frickin’ genius.

295 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:20:34pm

re: #285 simoom

In 1923, when they destroyed the currency in Germany, they elected Hitler

give or take a few facts

296 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:21:19pm

re: #261 simoom

It’s his usual blend of conspiracy and fear mongering:

If we think you are a terrorist in America we should arrest you. But here’s the question: You who is a terrorist? That’s why I’ve been so concerned about a lot around here who say that if you’re associated with terrorism that your government has already put out things that I think are of questionable nature. The Bureau of Justice put out a bulletin within the last year describing people who you need to be worried about. These are the people that you’re supposed to say something. If you say something, you’re supposed to say something. Who are these terrorists that live among you?

People who might be missing fingers on one hand, people who might have stains on their clothing, people who might have changed the color of their hair, people who like to pay in cash, people who own more than one gun, people who own weatherized ammunition, people who have seven days of food in their house. These are people that you should be afraid of and that you should report to your government. So says your government. Are they going to be on the drone strike list? I think we need to get an answer from the President.

If you’re going to kill people in America, we need rules, and we need to know what your rules are. Because I certainly don’t want to have seven days of food in my house if that’s on the list to terrorism. Interestingly, on government websites there are some government websites that advise you to have it in your house. If you live in a hurricane-prone area you’re supposed to keep some area food around. Who is going to decide when it’s okay to have food in your house and when it’s not?

There’s something called fusion centers, something that are supposed to coordinate between the federal government, the local government to find terrorists. The one in Missouri a couple years ago came up with a list and they sent this to every policemen in Missouri. The people on the list might be me. The people on the list from the fusion center in Missouri that you need to be worried about, that policemen should stop, are people that have bumper stick theirs might be pro-life, who have bumper stickers that might be for more border security, people who support third-party candidates, people who might be in the Constitution party. Oooh, isn’t there some irony there.

297 erik_t  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:21:59pm

He’d have been better off reading from the phone book. What a nutter.

298 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:22:02pm

re: #295 engineer cat

In 1923, when they destroyed the currency in Germany, they elected Hitler

give or take a few facts

What’s 10 years here and there in the sweep of history? At least he had it in the correct half-century.

299 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:22:26pm

re: #295 engineer cat

and who said he had a plan to make the currency strong again? that’s right, hitler.

who says he has a plan to make the currency strong again? rand paul.

rand paul = hitler

300 Achilles Tang  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:22:40pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

It’s shameful how the media and government agencies fell for these early Breitbart smears.

I hope these people have learned something, because we haven’t seen the last underhanded hack job from these nasty fuckers.

I am ashamed that initially I fell for the Acorn issue, and I dare say others here now or then did also. But I also credit this place for correcting that and hopefully for preventing the same knee jerk reaction by me in the future.

301 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:22:57pm

re: #297 erik_t

He’d have been better off reading from the phone book. What a nutter.

Reading from the phone book is so 20th Century. He should have been reading Tweets or Facebook posts.

302 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:23:22pm

re: #299 SpaceJesus

and who said he had a plan to make the currency strong again? that’s right, hitler.

who says he has a plan to make the currency strong again? rand paul.

rand paul = hitler

DO YOU KNOW WHO ELSE COULD HARANGUE FOR HOURS ON END?

303 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:23:51pm

there needs to be a little kids table where the libertarians in d.c. can play and not bother anyone but also have no power.

304 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:24:34pm

re: #302 Vicious Babushka

Foghorn Leghorn?

305 simoom  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:24:39pm

re: #296 lawhawk

Good catch on that bolded paragraph. “Hey survivalists, I’m really talking about you.”

306 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:25:28pm

re: #303 SpaceJesus

there needs to be a little kids table where the libertarians in d.c. can play and not bother anyone but also have no power.

Isolated house districts will do. Ron Paul was an isolated nut for years. Letting these loons into the Senate is more disruptive.

307 Achilles Tang  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:28:41pm

re: #295 engineer cat

In 1923, when they destroyed the currency in Germany, they elected Hitler

give or take a few facts

When I first read this conversation I assumed it was Glenn Beck. I never heard Rand’s daddy get quite so crazy, just stupid. I wonder if they talk.

308 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:32:11pm

re: #295 engineer cat

In 1923, when they destroyed the currency in Germany, they elected Hitler

give or take a few facts

“They?”

I don’t think he’s talking about the French.

309 Achilles Tang  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:37:09pm

re: #308 dragonath

“They?”

Oho. I don’t think he’s talking about the French.

re: #295 engineer cat

In 1923, when they destroyed the currency in Germany, they elected Hitler

give or take a few facts

There are two “they” in this. Are they they the same they?

310 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:39:55pm

re: #309 Achilles Tang

re: #295 engineer cat

There are two “they” in this. Are they they the same they?

yah - the first they would be, um, i guess, market forces, and the second they would be nobody, really, since hitler never actually won the election but was appointed chancellor

311 b_sharp  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:40:13pm

I’m bored, pissed and bored.
Bad combination.
Later.

312 engineer cat  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:42:06pm

re: #311 b_sharp

I’m bored, pissed and bored.
Bad combination.
Later.

have some spam, eggs, spam, and spam

313 Gus  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:44:52pm

Shooting. Mesa, AZ. Possible multiple victims. Developing.

314 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:46:47pm

re: #310 engineer cat

yah - the first they would be, um, i guess, market forces, and the second they would be nobody, really, since hitler never actually won the election but was appointed chancellor

That’s always irritated me when I hear people say, “Oh yeah, like, when Hitler was elected as leader of Germany”.

Statements like that display an abysmal knowledge of history.

I come back with, “Hitler was never elected to anything. He was appointed as Chancellor owing to a shabby political deal between two ex-Chancellors who convinced the senile President Hidenburg that a Chancellor Hitler was just what Germany needed to get it’s shit together. It was the biggest political miscalculation in modern German history.”

315 Shvaughn  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:47:53pm

re: #313 Gus

Shooting. Mesa, AZ. Possible multiple victims. Developing.

316 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:48:44pm

re: #314 Dr Lizardo

That’s always irritated me when I hear people say, “Oh yeah, like, when Hitler was elected as leader of Germany”.

Statements like that display an abysmal knowledge of history.

I come back with, “Hitler was never elected to anything. He was appointed as Chancellor owing to a shabby political deal between two ex-Chancellors who convinced the senile President Hidenburg that a Chancellor Hitler was just what Germany needed to get it’s shit together. It was the biggest political miscalculation in modern German history.”

Yeah, people always say Hitler was elected when they’re justifying their so and so equals Hitler rant. He wasn’t elected. Hindenberg with pressure from Von Papen appointed him Chancellor which as you point out was a huge political miscalculation considering the Reichstag fire that happened not long after and Hindenberg’s death not long after.

317 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:49:18pm

re: #314 Dr Lizardo

That’s always irritated me when I hear people say, “Oh yeah, like, when Hitler was elected as leader of Germany”.

Statements like that display an abysmal knowledge of history.

I come back with, “Hitler was never elected to anything. He was appointed as Chancellor owing to a shabby political deal between two ex-Chancellors who convinced the senile President Hidenburg that a Chancellor Hitler was just what Germany needed to get it’s shit together. It was the biggest political miscalculation in modern German history.”

All very true. However, it is also true that the Nazi party did well enough in elections that they were going to be a part of any political deal that could be struck.

318 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:52:22pm

re: #317 EPR-radar

All very true. However, it is also true that the Nazi party did well enough in elections that they were going to be a part of any political deal that could be struck.

True that. I just resent it when people use the circumstances surrounding Hitler rising to power to claim he was democratically elected. The fact that he got appointed Chancellor is bad enough. No need to misrepresent history.

319 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:53:07pm

re: #316 FriendsofHummus

Yeah, people always say Hitler was elected when they’re justifying their so and so equals Hitler rant. He wasn’t elected. Hindenberg with pressure from Von Papen appointed him Chancellor which as you point out was a huge political miscalculation considering the Reichstag fire that happened not long after and Hindenberg’s death not long after.

Von Papen and his cronies figured Hitler would be a nice, compliant lump of putty in their hands. Yeah………not so much. The various conservative parties figured they could easily control Hitler, and he would do whatever they told him to do, basically a puppet. Turned out they’d appointed the puppetmaster, not the puppet. Hitler took them all down in no time at all.

320 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:54:46pm

re: #317 EPR-radar

All very true. However, it is also true that the Nazi party did well enough in elections that they were going to be a part of any political deal that could be struck.

That is true. They were the second-biggest party in the Reichstag at that time, if I recall correctly, and there’s no way a political deal could’ve been struck without their support.

321 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:55:36pm

re: #319 Dr Lizardo

Von Papen and his cronies figured Hitler would be a nice, compliant lump of putty in their hands. Yeah………not so much. The various conservative parties figured they could easily control Hitler, and he would do whatever they told him to do, basically a puppet. Turned out they’d appointed the puppetmaster, not the puppet. Hitler took them all down in no time at all.

Yeah they really underestimated how conniving he was. Honestly it was a big mistake having Hindenberg as president. I understand that it was a ceremonial role rather than one that had real policy implications but damn still. I think Von Papen was one of the few main Nuremberg defendants that wasn’t a NSADP member.

322 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:55:52pm

re: #309 Achilles Tang

re: #295 engineer cat

There are two “they” in this. Are they they the same they?

SOCIALISTS!

323 Stephen T.  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:57:22pm

re: #253 erik_t

Oh honey, I think you’ll find it makes quite a bit of difference. But don’t listen to me prattle on… you go ahead and try that. Lemme know.

The real tragedy is that the folks most like to follow this advice will only be losing out on their tax return. All that money taken from their paycheck that they are eligible to get back will just be used the way tax money is usually used.

324 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:57:37pm

re: #320 Dr Lizardo

That is true. They were the second-biggest party in the Reichstag at that time, if I recall correctly, and there’s no way a political deal could’ve been struck without their support.

I recall reading recently that they had begun to slip at the polls. They may have been the second largest but they had still slipped from the peak of their electoral support when Hitler got the Chancellorship.

325 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:58:08pm

Disturbing thing is to see how rapidly they grew in support. They start out as a truly fringe party. We’re talking like gathering under 5% in 1928 not even 4 years prior. The Nazis are frankly why I’m wary of populist movements. And economic hard times are the perfect breeding ground for demagogues. And yeah I’m aware that they had corporate funding too. I’m wary of overly corporate movements too.

326 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 5:59:43pm

re: #321 FriendsofHummus

Yeah they really underestimated how conniving he was. Honestly it was a big mistake having Hindenberg as president. I understand that it was a ceremonial role rather than one that had real policy implications but damn still. I think Von Papen was one of the few main Nuremberg defendants that wasn’t a NSADP member.

Hitler actually tried to get Von Papen bumped off a couple of times as a casus belli for war with other countries.

Hindenberg was well-respected, of course, but by early 1933, from all accounts he was fast fading into senility. A more aware man would probably not have fallen for Von Papen’s conniving BS.

Of course, the conservatives in Germany of that time were so utterly complacement that they failed to recognize the very real danger of a Hitler government.

327 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:00:13pm

re: #325 FriendsofHummus

Disturbing thing is to see how rapidly they grew in support. They start out as a truly fringe party. We’re talking like gathering under 5% in 1928 not even 4 years prior. The Nazis are frankly why I’m wary of populist movements. And economic hard times are the perfect breeding ground for demagogues.

Agreed. Events in Europe could go this way again very quickly. We already have a significant crop of neo-Nazis in Greece, and the mainstream political systems in Europe seem as incapable of dealing with the banks there as in the US.

328 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:01:48pm

re: #327 EPR-radar

Agreed. Events in Europe could go this way again very quickly. We already have a significant crop of neo-Nazis in Greece, and the mainstream political systems in Europe seem as incapable of dealing with the banks there as in the US.

Yeah, Greece is a good example. I’ve been thinking about Hungary as of late too. Seems like Anti-Semitism and Anti-Romanyism(I don’t know the proper term for prejudice towards the Romani people) is really on the rise there. It seems to me that the hard times in Britain allowed for the BNP to have its best showing in years.

329 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:01:55pm

re: #324 William Barnett-Lewis

I recall reading recently that they had begun to slip at the polls. They may have been the second largest but they had still slipped from the peak of their electoral support when Hitler got the Chancellorship.

I remember reading that as well in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. That moment in time really was Hitler’s one and only chance to get the reins of government; had matters occured six or eight months later, history would likely be quite different.

330 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:03:36pm

re: #328 FriendsofHummus

Yeah, Greece is a good example. I’ve been thinking about Hungary as of late too. Seems like Anti-Semitism and Anti-Romanyism(I don’t know the proper term for prejudice towards the Romani people) is really on the rise there. It seems to me that the hard times in Britain allowed for the BNP to have its best showing in years.

Antiziganism is the proper term for prejudice against Romani people.

331 dragonath  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:05:02pm

re: #324 William Barnett-Lewis

I recall reading recently that they had begun to slip at the polls. They may have been the second largest but they had still slipped from the peak of their electoral support when Hitler got the Chancellorship.

Yeah, they peaked in early 1932. Between the DVNP and the Nazis, the nationalist parties still ended up with more than 40% of the vote though.

There were a few people who foresaw things going to hell as soon as Hitler became the chancellor. Werner Hegemann was one of them. He stuck a satirical dedication to Hitler in one of his books, and the nazis were too stupid to figure it out until he absconded the country.

332 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:05:07pm

re: #328 FriendsofHummus

Yeah, Greece is a good example. I’ve been thinking about Hungary as of late too. Seems like Anti-Semitism and Anti-Romanyism(I don’t know the proper term for prejudice towards the Romani people) is really on the rise there. It seems to me that the hard times in Britain allowed for the BNP to have its best showing in years.

Continent wide economic dislocations, combined with no real attempt of mainstream politicians to alleviate matters or even prevent a recurrence. Installation of governors for the banks in places like Greece.

What could possibly go wrong?

333 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:05:33pm

re: #323 Stephen T.

The real tragedy is that the folks most like to follow this advice will only be losing out on their tax return. All that money taken from their paycheck that they are eligible to get back will just be used the way tax money is usually used.

Indeed. Most people get tax refunds because their weekly/biweekly withholding more than covers their tax obligations after credits and deductions. Moreover, the withholding acts as an interest free loan to the government.

For most people, the government already gets its take in withholding*. The tax return is so that you get your due amount back in most cases.

*Depending on the tax situation, the tax withheld wont be sufficient to cover the tax obligation so you have to pay more.

334 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:09:13pm

re: #241 Gus

Oh. They’re saying that it’s also based on a year old lie that the DHS was retrofitting tanks. That actually came from Firedoglake.

I didn’t search anything and didn’t find about the other stuff later. I just the 2,717 figure at that prepper site and searched 2,717 MRAP site:.gov and boom, there it was. 2nd link. Took me about a minute.

So Obama got 2,700 of these, new?

Image: Black_Panther.jpg

(it’s only a model)
Shh!

335 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:11:55pm

This guy is mega dumb but at least he didn’t tell me to die in a ditch.

336 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 7, 2013 6:19:42pm

re: #330 Dr Lizardo

Antiziganism is the proper term for prejudice against Romani people.

Thanks. Didn’t know the actual proper term for it.


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