Pope Francis’s Deafening Silence on Argentine Sex Abuse Cases

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Religion • Views: 27,360

Would you be surprised to learn that the new Pope has the same old problems that have now become almost daily news about the Catholic Church? While there’s no evidence (yet) that he actively covered up the crimes of pedophile priests, while archbishop of Buenos Aires, Jorge Mario Bergoglio often took no action to protect children or act swiftly against the criminal clergy: Pope Francis Was Often Quiet on Argentine Sex Abuse Cases as Archbishop.

HURLINGHAM, Argentina — Father Julio Cesar Grassi was a celebrity in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. The young, dynamic, ­media-savvy priest networked with wealthy Argentines to fund an array of schools, orphanages and job training programs for poor and abandoned youths, winning praise from Argentine politicians and his superior, Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio.

Grassi called his foundation Felices los Niños, “Happy Children.”

Today, Grassi is a convicted sex offender who remains free on a conditional release after being sentenced to 15 years in prison in 2009 for molesting a prepubescent boy in his care.

Yet in the years after Grassi’s conviction, Bergoglio — now Pope Francis — has declined to meet with the victim of the priest’s crimes or the victims of other predations by clergy under his leadership. He did not offer personal apologies or financial restitution, even in cases in which the crimes were denounced by other members of the church and the offending priests were sent to jail.

…During most of the 14 years that Bergoglio served as archbishop of Buenos Aires, rights advocates say, he did not take decisive action to protect children or act swiftly when molestation charges surfaced; nor did he extend apologies to the victims of abusive priests after their misconduct came to light.

“He has been totally silent,” said Ernesto Moreau, a member of Argentina’s U.N.-affiliated Permanent Assembly for Human Rights and a lawyer who has represented victims in a clergy sexual-abuse case. Victims asked to meet with Bergoglio but were turned down, Moreau said. “In that regard, Bergoglio was no different from most of the other bishops in Argentina, or the Vatican itself.”

The Catholic Church has paid out at least $2 billion in the United States alone to settle abuse claims, according to monitoring groups. In many Latin American countries, though, the scope of crimes has only begun to surface, and in Argentina, no victims have received restitution in public settlements, rights groups and lawyers said.

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221 comments
1 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:08:46am

Yeah, but he’s so humble HE RIDES THE BUS!

///

2 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:10:37am

re: #1 Bulworth

Yeah, but he’s so humble HE RIDES THE BUS!

///

He cooked his own meals!
//

The Church is like the Mafia, but with fewer ethics.

3 alinuxguru  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:11:14am

The last pope was from Germany.
This pope is from Argentina.
I am naziing a pattern here.

4 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:11:32am

But he’s against abortion and gay rights. Sigh. Really. The RCC really needs to do something about this. Stop ignoring the problem, blaming the victims, or claiming that the whole thing is just to make Catholics look bad.

5 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:12:03am

re: #3 alinuxguru

There are enough reasons to complain about the Church without that stupid shit.

6 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:13:41am

Does the Vatican not see this is rotting the Church to its core?

7 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:13:58am

Considering most of the candidates for the job were appointed to their previous positions by JPII and Benny, this shit doesn’t surprise me anymore. Not sure why anybody held hope that the new guy would be somebody who’d clean house.

8 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:15:44am

re: #7 Targetpractice

Considering most of the candidates for the job were appointed to their previous positions by JPII and Benny, this shit doesn’t surprise me anymore. Not sure why anybody held hope that the new guy would be somebody who’d clean house.

I was expecting Ewan McGregor to come skydiving in at the last minute and become the next Pope.

9 Tigger2005  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:16:44am

re: #7 Targetpractice

Considering most of the candidates for the job were appointed to their previous positions by JPII and Benny, this shit doesn’t surprise me anymore. Not sure why anybody held hope that the new guy would be somebody who’d clean house.

They’d have to pull a Dan Brown and make a regular humble priest the Pope. Or better yet, a nun!

10 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:17:12am

re: #8 Kragar (Antichrist )

I was expecting Ewan McGregor to come skydiving in at the last minute and become the next Pope.

Pope Kenobi I

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:17:36am

re: #7 Targetpractice

Considering most of the candidates for the job were appointed to their previous positions by JPII and Benny, this shit doesn’t surprise me anymore. Not sure why anybody held hope that the new guy would be somebody who’d clean house.

same way guys hope thier next girlfriend won’t be neurotic and women hope their next boyfriend won’t be alcoholic and manipulative…

12 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:17:47am

I knew where this was going listening to RW radio a week ago when Hugh Hewitt said ‘the left is already attacking him but don’t pay attention to them, he’s a good Pope.’

13 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:18:34am

I wonder how many Popes and Catholic priests are in Hell?

14 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:18:37am

Ah, here we go again:

Limbaugh Lambastes RNC Report: GOP Lost ‘Because It’s Not Conservative’

“I think what really is going on here, folks, at this moment policy is not the primary thing they’re concerned about, even though they’re not gonna admit that. They are concerned, and you will understand this the moment I say it, about their donor base. And so what Priebus is doing, they got this big plan. I got a copy of it last night. I got an embargoed copy. It was embargoed ‘til like seven o’clock this morning, but it didn’t matter to me because I’m not gonna be talking about it in public by then so I could go ahead and look at it, and I didn’t. I waited for others to go through it and report on it ‘cause I know what it’s gonna say, and I was right. They think they’ve gotta rebrand and it’s all predictable. They gotta reach out to minorities. They gotta moderate their tone here and moderate their tone there. And that’s not at all what they’ve gotta do.

The Republican Party lost because it’s not conservative. It didn’t get its base out in the 2012 election.”

15 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:19:13am

re: #14 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ah, here we go again:

Limbaugh Lambastes RNC Report: GOP Lost ‘Because It’s Not Conservative’

Totally it.

16 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:19:28am

re: #12 Kronocide

He had nothing to do with the Argentine military dictatorship and didn’t have anything to do with disappearing anyone, but if he did, all of that would be OK, great even because Marxism.

17 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:19:41am

re: #12 Kronocide

I knew where this was going listening to RW radio a week ago when Hugh Hewitt said ‘the left is already attacking him but don’t pay attention to them, he’s a good Pope.’

Yeah the logic there is “if the left hates him, he must be awesome.” Nolte and Erickson were hoping the stories about his ties to the Argentina Junta of the mid 70’s and early 80’s were true because in their twisted minds, the Dirty War was awesome but of course these are the same people who think President Obama is “bullying” conservatives. Yeah,……….

18 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:20:30am

re: #15 Varek Raith

Totally it.

19 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:20:35am

re: #14 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ah, here we go again:

Limbaugh Lambastes RNC Report: GOP Lost ‘Because It’s Not Conservative’

The Republican Party lost because it’s not conservative. It didn’t get its base out in the 2012 election.

What, what, WHAT?!!

20 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:20:44am
“The Republican Party lost because it’s not conservative. It didn’t get its base out in the 2012 election.”

They shoulda come out against Obamacare and promised to cut taxes and cut spending and eliminate abortion. /

21 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:20:54am

re: #6 Varek Raith

Does the Vatican not see this is rotting the Church to its core?

They’re too busy blaming gays and liberals to notice.

22 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:22:26am

Please GOP, listen to Rush.

23 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:23:09am

re: #20 Bulworth

They shoulda come out against Obamacare and promised to cut taxes and cut spending and eliminate abortion. /

And get rid of PBS and privatize FEMA. Really, Rush said this after 2008 too. I am so sick of this excuse. “We weren’t conservative enough” or “We didn’t get our base out enough.” Maybe the problem is you but nah to these guys conservatism is the best thing ever and cannot be questioned.

24 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:23:27am

re: #14 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ah, here we go again:

Limbaugh Lambastes RNC Report: GOP Lost ‘Because It’s Not Conservative’

Remember when there were some hopeful idealists who thought that Romney losing would “wake up” the Right? That they’d realize that the country is turned off by their lunacy and would take to moderating themselves in order to win back voters?

Hearing this must be to them like when they learned the Santa isn’t real.

25 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:23:37am

re: #22 Kragar (Antichrist )

Please GOP, listen to Rush.

Please proceed.

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:23:47am

Here’s that good ol’ conservative mean-spirited lack of grace again:

27 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:23:56am

re: #23 HappyWarrior

And get rid of PBS and privatize FEMA. Really, Rush said this after 2008 too. I am so sick of this excuse. “We weren’t conservative enough” or “We didn’t get our base out enough.” Maybe the problem is you but nah to these guys conservatism is the best thing ever and cannot be questioned.

Bryan thinks the GOP lost because THEY DON’T HATE TEH GHEY!

28 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:24:55am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Here’s that good ol’ conservative mean-spirited lack of grace again:

Yeesh, bitter much?

29 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:25:11am

In some of my recent bouts of insomnia I’ve played the game of putting myself in his shoes. Because of that I am willing to grant slack for a few months. Not forever, but for a period…

One point I think needs kept in mind is that he swore an oath of total obedience. We really don’t understand that sort of thing here in the US, but it is a real thing in his case. That oath is now mooted, of course, so there is now a window of opportunity in which to act. We shall see.

Another thing that goes into this is the very powerful curia, of which some members who did not have Jesuit level oaths of loyalty are known to be knowledgeable if not complicit. Even the pope doesn’t “just break them.” Not unless he’s racing for a shorter tenure than JP I.

There is the fact that there are other scandals roiling to add complexity. And you can get it all into a big twist by remembering the main job of the pope is to see the Church continues. A cleansing act that destroys the Church is unacceptable.

So I am going to wait and see. I am not expecting success, but I am not yet convinced of failure.

30 makeitstop  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:25:35am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Here’s that good ol’ conservative mean-spirited lack of grace again:

I guess he landed a better job than she’s stuck with?

31 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:26:00am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Here’s that good ol’ conservative mean-spirited lack of grace again:

And the NYT portrayed her as one of the new generation of conservatives trying to change the GOP and modernize them.

Heh.

32 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:26:46am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Here’s that good ol’ conservative mean-spirited lack of grace again:

Who’s she raging at and why?

33 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:27:24am

re: #27 Vicious Babushka

Bryan thinks the GOP lost because THEY DON’T HATE TEH GHEY!

Yeah well he’s in for a rude awakening.

34 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:27:42am

re: #32 HappyWarrior

Who’s she raging at and why?

Not sure. A heretic of some description, I’m gathering.

35 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:28:54am

re: #32 HappyWarrior

Who’s she raging at and why?

Some guy who got to take over Chris Hayes old show.

36 Kronocide  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:29:17am

Really hard to pull off a Nazi joke unless you’re a professional.

37 Gus  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:29:32am

Heh.

38 erik_t  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:29:38am

Presumably the Church has been dealing with pedophilia for the bulk of its history. I can’t think of any modern cultural development that would have encouraged or caused it.

Expecting rapid change after a thousand years of this would, unfortunately, be foolishly optimistic.

39 Skip Intro  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:31:32am

re: #14 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ah, here we go again:

Limbaugh Lambastes RNC Report: GOP Lost ‘Because It’s Not Conservative’

Gee, who could have seen that coming?

I’ve got a free tip for the GOP: Dump Limbaugh, hard and fast. He’s killing you.

40 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:32:28am

re: #14 Kragar (Antichrist )

Ah, here we go again:

Limbaugh Lambastes RNC Report: GOP Lost ‘Because It’s Not Conservative’

“It didn’t get its base out in the 2012 election.”

He is correct to some extent, Mitt was a singularly uninspiring candidate, but even a candidate that moderate by GOP standards was enough to inspire the Democratic base to get out and vote against him and the GOP in general.

And what Rush and most of the GOP still tries to get around without addressing is that their white, male, Protestant Fundamentalist base is a minority and a shrinking one at that.

41 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:32:38am

The most telling line in the article above:

… the scope of crimes has only begun to surface.

Not just in Argentina. If we ever do get a true accounting of the Church’s involvement in child abuse and pedophilia over the centuries of its existence, it’s going to be more horrifying than anyone can even imagine.

42 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:33:16am

re: #36 Kronocide

Really hard to pull off a Nazi joke unless you’re a professional.

Bad Nazi jokes make me fuhrerious.

43 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:33:27am

re: #39 Skip Intro

Gee, who could have seen that coming?

I’ve got a free tip for the GOP: Dump Limbaugh, hard and fast. He’s killing you.

It’s not really Rush in himself per say, it’s the worldview and mindset he has.

44 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:33:50am

re: #41 Charles Johnson


Any expectations of a sea change in the Catholic Church on sex abuse from within is just sadly misplaced. Almost willful.

Those changes can only come via force as in aggressive law enforcement and prosecution of offenders. With no statute of limitations BTW.

45 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:34:08am

If they would just toss the stupid celibacy requirement for priests a lot of this could be avoided in the future.

46 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:34:36am

re: #42 Kragar (Antichrist )

Bad Nazi jokes make me fuhrerious.

Downding!
Bad joke is bad!
:P

47 Gus  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:35:24am

re: #35 Kragar (Antichrist )

Some guy who got to take over Chris Hayes old show.

48 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:35:29am

re: #45 Eclectic Cyborg

If they would just toss the stupid celibacy requirement for priests a lot of this could be avoided in the future.

Wasn’t the celibacy rule put in place just so the Papacy and other high church positions should not become hereditary? That was progressive for its time.

49 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:35:44am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Here’s that good ol’ conservative mean-spirited lack of grace again:

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:37:10am

re: #44 Political Atheist

Any expectations of a sea change in the Catholic Church on sex abuse from within is just sadly misplaced. Almost willful.

Those changes can only come via force as in aggressive law enforcement and prosecution of offenders. With no statute of limitations BTW.

It is the same problem you have with any hierarchy in which power emanates from the top and flows down: it also entails that responsibilty for actions flows upwards.
The same thing exists in the military or in a a major college/high school sports program.
Those at the top try to hush it up to prevent it from reflecting poorly on them and wind up becoming complicit.

51 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:37:11am

re: #46 Varek Raith

Downding!
Bad joke is bad!
:P

A downding? Well, I see how things go when putsch comes to shove.

52 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:37:21am

re: #48 Vicious Babushka

Wasn’t the celibacy rule put in place just so the Papacy and other high church positions should not become hereditary? That was progressive for its time.

Which just shows that no matter how good your intentions are, if you make a rule, some jerk will find a way to corrupt it so it serves his purposes rather than the public good.

53 erik_t  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:37:56am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Not just in Argentina. If we ever do get a true accounting of the Church’s involvement in child abuse and pedophilia over the centuries of its existence, it’s going to be more horrifying than anyone can even imagine.

Hopefully it will result in some very thoughtful and introspective consideration of human nature and how it plays in the context of rigid hierarchical organizations. There’s nothing special about the Church in this case, it’s just the biggest and oldest and most structured and most powerful organization that provides an easy avenue for predators to be one-on-one with children. Blur the image just a tiny bit, change a few words here and there, and now we’re talking about exactly the same problem in the Boy Scouts.

54 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:38:02am

re: #49 Mattand

I don’t watch the cycle mainly because of S.E.

55 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:39:06am

re: #42 Kragar (Antichrist )

Bad Nazi jokes make me fuhrerious.

You know who else liked Nazi puns????

Well?

DO YOU?

‘Cause I’m drawing a blank.

56 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:39:42am

re: #48 Vicious Babushka

Wasn’t the celibacy rule put in place just so the Papacy and other high church positions should not become hereditary? That was progressive for its time.

In part. It was also political as a lot of national leaders feared the church would end up owning their property through inheritance rules.

57 efuseakay  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:39:46am

re: #13 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder how many Popes and Catholic priests are in Hell?

None. The concept of Heaven and Hell is just made-up BS to keep the masses obedient.

58 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:39:52am

The election of the Pope is like a Michael Bay film.

Its got a lot of potential, but when you finally get to see it, it just sucks.

59 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:40:54am

re: #54 Tigger2

I don’t watch the cycle mainly because of S.E.

Yeah, I only recently found out who she was.

I’m fully expecting her to drop her “atheism” and go full on Michelle Shocked born again.

60 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:40:59am

re: #55 Mattand

You know who else liked Nazi puns????

Well?

DO YOU?

‘Cause I’m drawing a blank.

I’m just Stalin for more time.

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:41:15am

re: #42 Kragar (Antichrist )

Bad Nazi jokes make me fuhrerious.

I feel like Danzig in the Streets!

62 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:41:54am

re: #58 Kragar (Antichrist )

The election of the Pope is like a Michael Bay film.

Its got a lot of potential, but when you finally get to see it, it just sucks.

Although the thought of the Popemobile in a pointless, 10 minute, explosion filled car chase is kind of entertaining.

63 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:42:36am

re: #48 Vicious Babushka

Wasn’t the celibacy rule put in place just so the Papacy and other high church positions should not become hereditary? That was progressive for its time.

Had far more to do with the fact that 1) married priests have children and will do what is best for them and that might not necessarily be what is best for Rome & 2) married priests have wills that leave property to someone who isn’t the Pope. All one has to do is to look at the Eastern church where it remains, as always, acceptable for a priest to be married to understand that this came about in the Western church for other reasons.

In the end it’s all about maintaining the same level of power over the clergy as the clergy exerted over the laity. Clerical celibacy was one of the bigger, if unspoken, drivers of the Reformation.

64 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:42:59am

Senate Democrats apparently are going to pull the assault weapons ban portion of their overall gun bill out, surprising virtually no one.

65 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:43:17am

re: #62 Mattand

Although the thought of the Popemobile in a pointless, 10 minute, explosion filled car chase is kind of entertaining.

Or the Popemobile launching itself in the air to become the control module of MECHA-JESUS!

66 Gus  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:43:31am
67 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:44:13am

re: #66 Gus

LOL a change of heart.

68 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:44:34am

re: #65 Kragar (Antichrist )

Or the Popemobile launching itself in the air to become the control module of MECHA-JESUS!

For ammo, it uses one loaf of bread and some fish which perpetually replenishes itself.

69 erik_t  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:44:54am

re: #64 Targetpractice

Senate Democrats apparently are going to pull the assault weapons ban portion of their overall gun bill out, surprising virtually no one.

In a sane world with two parties that wanted what was best for the country, this concession would materially affect the number of Republicans who might vote for this bill.

In 2013 United States, the number will change from zero to zero.

70 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:45:29am

re: #67 Tigger2

LOL a change of heart.

I wonder if she was kidding before, and I let my dislike of her faux-atheism get the better of me.

Oh, well. There’s a reason you add emoticons to internet posts.

71 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:45:33am

re: #64 Targetpractice

Senate Democrats apparently are going to pull the assault weapons ban portion of their overall gun bill out, surprising virtually no one.

They left it in long enough to appease the base, now perhaps they can actually get something done on universal background checks.

72 Gus  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:45:38am

re: #67 Tigger2

LOL a change of heart.

That one was actually 2 minutes earlier. I think she’s just being goofy or something.

73 jaunte  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:46:02am

re: #72 Gus

Sounds like she’s joking.

74 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:46:34am

Is this a Fake Quote or did Sowell really say that? He sounds like…you know.

75 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:46:51am

re: #69 erik_t

In a sane world with two parties that wanted what was best for the country, this concession would materially affect the number of Republicans who might vote for this bill.

In 2013 United States, the number will change from zero to zero.

I expect the declarations of “victory” will be along shortly from the usual suspects.

76 Gus  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:48:24am

re: #73 jaunte

Sounds like she’s joking.

Yeah, while Kornacki goes from MSNBC’s The Cycle to MSNBC’s Up.

77 jaunte  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:48:31am

re: #74 Vicious Babushka

“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensations for injustices — leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.”

–Thomas Sowell

Just look at the way the banks are behaving, for example.

78 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:49:09am

re: #77 jaunte

Just look at the way the banks are behaving, for example.

Wow, he really is an evil asshole, isn’t he?

79 jaunte  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:50:56am

re: #78 Vicious Babushka

He’s become quite a panderer.

80 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:51:31am

re: #78 Vicious Babushka

Wow, he really is an evil asshole, isn’t he?

He’d have to become nicer to get to that level.

81 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:51:34am

Bill Kristol: Republicans Need To ‘Inspire People To Rise Above’ Their War Weariness

Kristol jumped in to defend McCain, arguing that Republicans should try again to convince Americans that they shouldn’t be so bearish on war:

Now we’re weary again. And there are many politicians all too willing to seek power and popularity by encouraging weariness rather than point out its perils. […]

The task of a serious opposition party is to rally the nation to its responsibilities and long-term interests. The task of GOP political leaders is to educate the public about the dangers of the world and to inspire people to rise above their weariness. The task of American conservatives is not to let an understandable Obama-weariness turn into weariness in fighting the nation’s enemies or in supporting our troops in the field.

Got that? The Republican Party must convince the American people that they must RISE ABOVE their collective skepticism about war solving America’s problems. But why? Because Kristol and Co. want to go to war with Iran.

82 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:51:46am

What’s with the right’s obsession on calling those not well off, parasites? Creepy fucking rhetoric if you ask me.

83 erik_t  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:52:34am

re: #81 Kragar (Antichrist )

Bill Kristol: Republicans Need To ‘Inspire People To Rise Above’ Their War Weariness

The task of American conservatives is not to let an understandable Obama-weariness turn into weariness in fighting the nation’s enemies or in supporting our troops in the field.

Ah. Yes. That’s it. We’re weary about Obama’s Iraq War.

Fucking neocon chickenhawk pieces of trash.

84 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:52:49am

re: #81 Kragar (Antichrist )

Bill Kristol: Republicans Need To ‘Inspire People To Rise Above’ Their War Weariness

I hate using chickenhawk but Kristol’s giddy and childish mindset when it comes to war and peace deserves it.

85 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:53:08am

re: #72 Gus

That one was actually 2 minutes earlier. I think she’s just being goofy or something.

Yeah she probable was, a tweet like that if real wouldn’t set to well with MSNBC.

86 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:54:09am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

What’s with the right’s obsession on calling those not well off, parasites? Creepy fucking rhetoric if you ask me.

Randian philosophy.

87 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:55:14am

re: #62 Mattand

Although the thought of the Popemobile in a pointless, 10 minute, explosion filled car chase is kind of entertaining.

Followed by the Pope joining Doolittle to take part in bombing Japan.
/// :p

88 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:55:22am

re: #86 Targetpractice

Randian philosophy.

Rich knowing what we know about Ayn’s collecting SS from the feds.

89 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:55:31am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

What’s with the right’s obsession on calling those not well off, parasites? Creepy fucking rhetoric if you ask me.

Obviously if you’re not wealthy, you’re a lazy bum who leaches off the productive members of society.

90 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:56:19am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

What’s with the right’s obsession on calling those not well off, parasites? Creepy fucking rhetoric if you ask me.

If you are working full-time for minimum wage and paying 15% payroll tax, you are a “taker”, if you are a millionaire paying less than 14% because you can take advantage of tax deductions and loopholes (which you can afford to lobby for), you are a “maker”.

91 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:56:24am

re: #87 Feline Fearless Leader

Followed by the Pope joining Doolittle to take part in bombing Japan.
/// :p

or joined by whoever the good guys are in transformers to destroy the bad guys. Oh and Megan Fox as his beloved altar girl.

92 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:57:26am

re: #89 Kragar (Antichrist )

Obviously if you’re not wealthy, you’re a lazy bum who leaches off the productive members of society.

Hum I guess I’m a leach, and here I thought I was doing OK trudging along all those years.

93 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:57:29am

re: #81 Kragar (Antichrist )

Bill Kristol: Republicans Need To ‘Inspire People To Rise Above’ Their War Weariness

Republicans inspired that war weariness in the first place, Bill. Or did you think that two decade long wars would get people hungry for a third?

94 efuseakay  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:57:49am

re: #81 Kragar (Antichrist )

Of course, this fool will be the first to enlist, right?

95 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:58:56am

5 Serious Consequences Awaiting North Dakota If Republicans Ban All Abortions Under ‘Personhood’

Two personhood bills — Senate Bill 2303 and Senate Concurrent Resolution 4009 — have already passed the Senate, and the GOP-controlled House is expected to take them up sometime this week. But if North Dakota successfully enacts a total abortion ban, there will be serious consequences for the state that extend even beyond women’s reproductive freedom. Here are five ways the state will suffer under personhood:

96 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:59:37am

re: #94 efuseakay

Of course, this fool will be the first to enlist, right?

Yeah, definitely.
/

97 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 10:59:58am

re: #72 Gus

That one was actually 2 minutes earlier. I think she’s just being goofy or something.

Doesn’t look like Steve Kornacki thought she was kidding:

98 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:01:01am

It’s yet another example of Poe’s Law. If she was joking, it’s almost impossible to tell because that’s such a common sort of statement from conservatives.

99 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:01:59am

Some n00bie posting in the pages claims Charles has not sufficiently “repented” of being a wingnut. WTF.

100 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:02:28am

re: #98 Charles Johnson

It’s yet another example of Poe’s Law. If she was joking, it’s almost impossible to tell because that’s such a common sort of statement from conservatives.

That’s why I’m so confuuuuuuused.

101 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:02:34am

re: #82 HappyWarrior

What’s with the right’s obsession on calling those not well off, parasites? Creepy fucking rhetoric if you ask me.

It’s the Ayn Rand influence. She regarded “collectivists” (i.e., everyone who thought she was batshit insane) as parasites leeching on the poor, maligned capitalists like John Galt.

102 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:04:54am

re: #101 Lidane

It’s the Ayn Rand influence. She regarded “collectivists” (i.e., everyone who thought she was batshit insane) as parasites leeching on the poor, maligned capitalists like John Galt.

I never read “Atlas Shrugged” so what happened when John Galt and the other billionaires went off the grid? Did they have to chop their own wood and haul their own water? Did they cook their own food? Did they scrub their own toilets?

103 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:06:20am

re: #102 Vicious Babushka

I never read “Atlas Shrugged” so what happened when John Galt and the other billionaires went off the grid? Did they have to chop their own wood and haul their own water? Did they cook their own food? Did they scrub their own toilets?

Galt doesn’t strike me as the kind of man who unclogs his own septic tank.

104 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:07:12am

Atlas Shrugged - A review

105 jaunte  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:07:52am

re: #98 Charles Johnson

Anything mean spirited has a 50/50 chance of being “satire” or serious.
That’s probably too generous.

106 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:08:36am

re: #105 jaunte

Anything mean spirited has a 50/50 chance of being “satire” or serious.
That’s probably too generous.

If an angry comment doesn’t go over well they backpedal and say it’s “just a joke.”

107 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:09:11am

re: #105 jaunte

Anything mean spirited has a 50/50 chance of being “satire” or serious.
That’s probably too generous.

anything that is mean-spirited bullying has a 1:1 chance of being dubbed “satire” when the bully is called out on it.

108 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:13:23am

re: #102 Vicious Babushka

I never read “Atlas Shrugged” so what happened when John Galt and the other billionaires went off the grid?

What else? All of the leeches and parasites saw their government and society collapse, and Galt and his friends end the novel planning to come back and save the world.

Did they have to chop their own wood and haul their own water? Did they cook their own food? Did they scrub their own toilets?

LOL no. They just went off the grid until the rest of society collapsed. That’s all.

109 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:14:51am

re: #84 HappyWarrior

I hate using chickenhawk but Kristol’s giddy and childish mindset when it comes to war and peace deserves it.

Got no trouble with the term. Chickenhawk should STFU.

110 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:15:44am

re: #108 Lidane

So the lesson then would be that the world is full of parasites and leeches and only a handful of supermen capitalists can make things go? Not really a ringing endorsement, it seems to me, for unfettered market capitalism.

111 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:15:48am

re: #108 Lidane

What else? All of the leeches and parasites saw their government and society collapse, and Galt and his friends end the novel planning to come back and save the world.

LOL no. They just went off the grid until the rest of society collapsed. That’s all.

Did it end like this?

112 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:18:02am

The “I work 80 hours a week at 2 jrrbz!” guy is still at it:

113 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:19:16am

re: #108 Lidane

What else? All of the leeches and parasites saw their government and society collapse, and Galt and his friends end the novel planning to come back and save the world.

LOL no. They just went off the grid until the rest of society collapsed. That’s all.

And, of course, the expectation is that society will come to them begging for their wisdom and leadership, they’ll return to controlling the unwashed masses, and unbridled capitalism that is free of government “interference” will create a new utopia.

Or, rather, you’re just supposed to fill that part in in your minds.

114 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:19:45am

re: #112 Vicious Babushka

that guy really knows nothing about the minimum wage. *facepalm*

115 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:20:23am

re: #110 Bulworth

So the lesson then would be that the world is full of parasites and leeches and only a handful of supermen capitalists can make things go?

Got it in one.

Also, the supermen capitalists are the only ones who have any purpose in life and they should be deified and revered by the poor unwashed mass of leeches and parasites.

Not really a ringing endorsement, it seems to me, for unfettered market capitalism.

You’re just saying that because you can’t appreciate the genius of Ayn Rand. Who else is going to stand up for the poor, maligned capitalist?

////

116 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:20:28am

re: #114 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

that guy really knows nothing about the minimum wage. *facepalm*

Walmart systematically denies advancement.

117 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:22:08am

re: #112 Vicious Babushka

The “I work 80 hours a week at 2 jrrbz!” guy is still at it:

That stupid ass, most people working for minimum wage aren’t kids.

118 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:22:32am

re: #114 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

that guy really knows nothing about the minimum wage. *facepalm*

It is a matter of doctrine that working for the minimum wage is also a sign of laziness - i.e., lack of willingness to work harder to get a better job.

119 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:24:16am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

Yeah, I hate that store.

120 Mattand  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:24:36am

re: #49 Mattand

Not that I don’t enjoy the updings, but I’m beginning to think Cupp was kidding around and I put my foot in my mouth, Internetz style.

In the unlikely event that anyone replies, I’ll break internet protocol and actually apologize for saying something dumb.

121 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:25:05am

“Dying of laughter” is only an expression.

122 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:25:35am

re: #118 Sol Berdinowitz

I know, yet none of them realize that the reason their jobs pay more than minimum wage, in many cases, is because there is a minimum wage in place (at least that’s the case for a lot of unskilled labor).

123 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:25:36am

re: #118 Sol Berdinowitz

It is a matter of doctrine that working for the minimum wage is also a sign of laziness - i.e., lack of willingness to work harder to get a better job.

The only problem with that is the a lot better jobs since the 70s have been trying to get the wages they pay down to being more in line with the minimum wage.

124 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:26:05am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

Just kidz and oldies who dont need more than minwage and gruel. /

125 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:26:12am

re: #119 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yeah, I hate that store.

For sheer dumbassery and totally alienating their customer base, Whole Foods wins.

126 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:27:56am

People who work 100 hours a week don’t have time for talking stupid shit on twitter. He’s probably a “job creator” who creams his pants thinking of the $1.00 work day. You know, a real american.

127 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:28:01am

re: #123 Tigger2

The only problem with that is the a lot better jobs since the 70s have been trying to get the wages they pay down to being more in line with the minimum wage.

Entry level jobs for high-paying professional positions have almost been replaced with “unpaid internships.”

I made $10/hr my first professional IT job out of college.

128 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:28:44am

re: #126 Amory Blaine

People who work 100 hours a week don’t have time for talking stupid shit on twitter. He’s probably a “job creator” who creams his pants thinking of the $1.00 work day. You know, a real american.

No, I think this guy is an unemployed loser who just pretends to have 2 jobs on Teh Internetz.

129 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:29:57am

When I go home this afternoon I have to empty the refrigerator and cupboards, but then a professional cleaning crew is coming in while I luxuriate in a cubicle.

130 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:30:57am

re: #111 Vicious Babushka

Did it end like this?

The other amusing thing is that a lot of the US Ayn Rand-y capitalists act a lot more like the leech-type businessmen in the book than they do like John Galt or any of the other principled heroes of her other works.

131 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:31:37am

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

When I go home this afternoon I have to empty the refrigerator and cupboards, but then a professional cleaning crew is coming in while I luxuriate in a cubicle.

“Feathers, Candles, and Bags R Us”

133 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:33:08am

re: #127 Vicious Babushka

Entry level jobs for high-paying professional positions have almost been replaced with “unpaid internships.”

I made $10/hr my first professional IT job out of college.

I made $7.75/hr working a factory in the 70s the last job I had in 2006 paid $10/hr because I had to go through a temp service, Company’s using temp services is something else that is wrong in this country.

134 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:33:36am

re: #131 Decatur Deb

“Feathers, Candles, and Bags R Us”

I am impressed that a Catholic boy from lower Alabama knows how we search for chametz!

135 jaunte  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:34:08am

re: #130 Feline Fearless Leader

If any of them have invented a superior new kind of metal, they’re holding out.

136 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:34:37am

re: #134 Vicious Babushka

I am impressed that a Catholic boy from lower Alabama knows how we search for chametz!

Alabama by way of Ra’anana by way of the Bronx.

137 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:35:07am

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

When I go home this afternoon I have to empty the refrigerator and cupboards, but then a professional cleaning crew is coming in while I luxuriate in a cubicle.

I’m waiting for the Babushka Cat quote of:
“WAT! WHO SAY MEESE NOT KOSHER!”

;)

P.S. - I figured out why the one cat goes bouncing through the venetian blinds repeatedly in the morning. Pigeon flocks flying around the building and the parking lot across the street. She is following track of them from window to window including switching rooms and then coming back. Just annoyance to me.

138 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:35:18am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

Walmart systematically denies advancement.

Nothing shocking there. First job I worked was minimum wage for Food Lion, and I ran into exactly the same pay scale and annual raise system there. You had to work your ass off the entire year, working part-time shifts that were never the same from week to week (especially not if they could cross-train you for other jobs and pencil you in as a replacement), in the hopes that the manager would see your work as good enough to warrant a promotion. And even if he did pencil you in for a promotion, you then had to wait til the district manager made his rounds to inspect the stores before your raise was approved, which could be up to six months after it was entered into the system.

When I found that out at about 9 months in, I quit. I had spent that nine months already at odds with the managers because they wanted me to violate various corporate rules in order to improve the store’s productivity and I wasn’t going to get myself caught up in a lawsuit. When I found out that I’d be waiting up to 9 months more for my first raise, I hung up my apron and went looking elsewhere.

139 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:35:40am

re: #136 Decatur Deb

Alabama by way of Ra’anana by way of the Bronx.

My son married an Alabama girl! Theirs was the very first Hasidic wedding in Birmingham.

140 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:36:05am

re: #133 Tigger2

I made $7.75/hr working a factory in the 70s the last job I had paid $10/hr because I had to go through a temp service, Company’s using temp services are something else that is wrong in this country.

Bingo.

$11 an hour for me in 1991; $14 an hour in 2011 and 2012.

I doubt that even kept up with the cost of living.

141 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:37:46am

re: #140 BongCrodny

Bingo.

$11 an hour for me in 1991; $14 an hour in 2011 and 2012.

I doubt that even kept up with the cost of living.

I forgot to add my last year worked was 2006.

142 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:38:37am

I work part time at a retail store. I’ve been there close to five years. I started at $8.16 hr, I now make $9.25. Yes, that’s right in FOUR years my pay has gone up a whopping $1.09/hr.

There is no preset annual raise, your raise is determined by your annual performance review scores AS WELL AS those of the store you work in. So if you’re a good employee in a poorly run store, you can get a low raise as a result.

What’s also interesting is that my manager flat out told me on last review that even though I only received scores roughly equivalent to a B- or “satisfactory” grade in school, that was actually quite good because apparently almost no one actually gets top scores (which would result in the highest raises).

Hmmm….

143 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:39:10am

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

My son married an Alabama girl! Theirs was the very first Hasidic wedding in Birmingham.

An Irish Catholic friend of ours married an Orthodox doctor, and tried very, very, hard to convert correctly. They had a rabbi from Birmingham commute down here for lessons. At one point, after the hospital delivered each doctor’s home an Easter basket with a ham, she called my wife:

“Come get this fucking pig out of my refrigerator before my husband gets home.”

144 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:40:21am

Oh and another favourite of corporations today: Promotions WITHOUT raises.

Several times I have been “promoted” in this way. More work, more responsibility, same pay grade.

In one instance I made $3 LESS an hour than someone who did pretty much the exact same things I did simply because I did not have the word “Manager” in my title like he did.

145 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:41:04am

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

For sheer dumbassery and totally alienating their customer base, Whole Foods wins.

Oh no doubt, but it was a genius marketing ploy until the dumbass came out as a total wingnut. I mean he saw an opportunity to open a store and make money off the organic craze. Then he decided to come out as a douche.

146 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:42:05am

re: #144 Eclectic Cyborg

Oh and another favourite of corporations today: Promotions WITHOUT raises.

Several times I have been “promoted” in this way. More work, more responsibility, same pay grade.

Wait a minute here…

It’s just like being told to finish the vegetables on your plate when you were growing up. “There’s plenty of starving engineers over in India who would be glad to come over here and take that job at that wage!”
;)

147 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:42:59am

re: #143 Decatur Deb

An Irish Catholic friend of ours married an Orthodox doctor, and tried very, very, hard to convert correctly. They had a rabbi from Birmingham commute down here for lessons. At one point, after the hospital delivered each doctor’s home an Easter basket with a ham, she called my wife:

“Come get this fucking pig out of my refrigerator before my husband gets home.”

HAHAHA.

148 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:43:28am

re: #145 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Oh no doubt, but it was a genius marketing ploy until the dumbass came out as a total wingnut. I mean he saw an opportunity to open a store and make money off the organic craze. Then he decided to come out as a douche.

There is a Whole Foods 6-8 blocks from where I live. Never been in it. Happy with Trader Joe’s about the same distance away in a different direction and a trip to a MegaWeg (large Wegman’s store) every other week or so.

149 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:44:03am

Hahaha:

150 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:44:03am

re: #144 Eclectic Cyborg

Oh and another favourite of corporations today: Promotions WITHOUT raises.

Several times I have been “promoted” in this way. More work, more responsibility, same pay grade.

Wait a minute here…

Nah, the ultimate insult is when they make you a manager and put your ass on salary. At least with hourly work you know that if they try to overwork you, you’ll get compensation. Management? You’re their bitch, if they bark “Jump!,” you don’t even bother asking “How high?”

151 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:44:25am

re: #144 Eclectic Cyborg

Oh and another favourite of corporations today: Promotions WITHOUT raises.

Several times I have been “promoted” in this way. More work, more responsibility, same pay grade.

Wait a minute here…

Same boat here. Luckily, I’ve taken my lessons from Mr. Scott.

“Yeah, that project is going to take me a week at least.”
“OK, you’re the expert.”

Which leaves me plenty of time to fart around.

152 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:44:59am

re: #146 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s just like being told to finish the vegetables on your plate when you were growing up. “There’s plenty of starving engineers over in India who would be glad to come over here and take that job at that wage!”
;)

10 years ago over half of the workers in the building where I worked were Asians who were here on H1B.

Today, the building is about 95% full of middle-aged white men.

153 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:48:13am

BRB, gonna go hunt down a cheeseburger.

154 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:48:22am

re: #146 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s just like being told to finish the vegetables on your plate when you were growing up. “There’s plenty of starving engineers over in India who would be glad to come over here and take that job at that wage!”
;)

Actually, India has a shortage of actual engineers nowadays. So many people were going thru the certification mills over there that finding a IT engineer who actually knows his stuff is almost impossible. Many companies there now just look for people they feel they can train OJT rather than waste time on an idiot with a worthless cert.

155 Tigger2  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:50:58am

Between temporary services and union busting, no wonder the U.S. is quickly slipping into a third world status.

156 darthstar  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:52:34am

re: #154 Kragar (Antichrist )

Actually, India has a shortage of actual engineers nowadays. So many people were going thru the certification mills over there that finding a IT engineer who actually knows his stuff is almost impossible. Many companies there now just look for people they feel they can train OJT rather than waste time on an idiot with a worthless cert.

We’ve got crappy engineer mills here in the states as well. I’ve looked at four resumes this morning with the same computer training school…I’ve never had a good engineer come from there…they always have minimal knowledge and need OJT. In fact, that school is a red flag as far as I’m concerned.

157 iossarian  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:52:36am

re: #154 Kragar (Antichrist )

Actually, India has a shortage of actual engineers nowadays. So many people were going thru the certification mills over there that finding a IT engineer who actually knows his stuff is almost impossible. Many companies there now just look for people they feel they can train OJT rather than waste time on an idiot with a worthless cert.

I quite often go looking for solutions to interesting computer science design/programming questions on stackoverflow.com, but it’s amazing how often you see really, *really* basic questions getting asked and answered on there, by people who (according to their profiles) are fully qualified “IT professionals”.

“How do u create variable in javascript I really need to know for review kthx”

158 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:52:47am

re: #155 Tigger2

Between temporary services and union busting, no wonder the U.S. is quickly slipping into third world status.

BUT MOAR BONUSES FOR EXECUTIVES!11!!

159 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:53:07am

re: #155 Tigger2

Between temporary services and union busting, no wonder the U.S. is quickly slipping into third world status.

We need another round of serious trust busting in America.

160 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:54:15am

The FBI is so totally following this Twitter feed.

161 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:54:29am

re: #152 Vicious Babushka

10 years ago over half of the workers in the building where I worked were Asians who were here on H1B.

Today, the building is about 95% full of middle-aged white men.

I’ve generally seen mixes.

As a contractor in D.C. in the late 80s it split by contracting firm. The one I worked for was hiring IT right out of college from western PA and Ohio. Other firm used at the same place was bringing programmers and analysts over from India.

When working IT in western PA it was mainly local talent; but also a roughly 50/50 male-female mix (both at analyst and mid-manager level). Partially affected by being a VAX/VMS shop, which made things a sort of bizarre clan in the region since it was not a common set-up.

Out here in Philly it’s been a real mix since things got international with the various projects. Working with Accenture mixed in Europeans and Indians since they do their 24-hour development cycle where work is passed from team to team in the different time zones to allow for shorter schedules. The one project included working with Accenture Brazil and made for a very exotic shop. Part of the fun during breaks was simply sitting back in the work room and comparing cultural aspects between the US, Brazil, and India along with the complicating regional differences.*

* - Such as being asked by a co-worker whether I noticed that someone’s Portuguese accent was different from everyone else’s. :)

162 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:55:48am

I actually got told after an interview that I was the only applicant who answered a question “I don’t know the answer, but here is what I would do to find the answer.”

Got the job.

163 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:55:59am

yes? no?

The bourgeoisie, according to Engels, is “…the class of modern capitalists, owners of the means of social production and employers of wage labour.”1 The capitalist does not participate directly in the process of production. Instead, his function is only “…the appropriation and therefore control of the labour of others and… the selling of the products of this labour.”2 This is what differentiates the bourgeoisie from the petty bourgeoisie. The petty bourgeois proprietor may also own means of production, and he may also employ labor, and therefore he is also nominally a capitalist. However, writes Engels: “capitalist production requires an individual capital big enough to employ a fairly large number of workers at a time; only when he himself is wholly released from labour does the employer of labour become a full-blooded capitalist.”3 The petty proprietor lives by his own labor (as well as, in the case of the upper petty businessman, the labor of others) while the capitalist lives exclusively by the labor of others.

The number of capitalists in the United States does not amount to more than 2,000,000, accounting for less than 1.8% of the “economically active” population. However, this small fraction of the population controls the businesses which account for 94% of all business sales, a reflection of the concentration of the means of production in their hands. The concentration of economic power is shown in Table A-1.

164 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:56:08am

re: #161 Feline Fearless Leader

When working IT in western PA it was mainly local talent; but also a roughly 50/50 male-female mix (both at analyst and mid-manager level). Partially affected by being a VAX/VMS shop, which made things a sort of bizarre clan in the region since it was not a common set-up.

I started out programming FORTRAN on VAX/VMS. Haven’t seen it since Y2K.

165 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:56:09am

How is the day?

166 darthstar  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:57:21am

re: #157 iossarian

Actual copy/paste from a resume I got today from someone who has 2+ years of ‘consulting’ experience as a manual QA tester:

TECHNICAL SKILLS:
Platforms: Windows 7/Vista/XP, Mac
Mobile Platforms: Windows Mobile, iOS, Android OS
Programming: HTML, XML, JavaScript, SQL
RDBMS: Oracle, MySQL
Networking: TCP/IP, FTP, HTTP, Internet, Intranet
Test Automation: Selenium IDE/RC/Web Driver
Virtualization: VMware Server
Bug Tracking: JIRA, Bugzilla, Mantis
Browsers: Opera, Safari, MS Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, Chrome
Applications: MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook)

No…I’m not calling them.

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:57:48am

re: #156 darthstar

We’ve got crappy engineer mills here in the states as well. I’ve looked at four resumes this morning with the same computer training school…I’ve never had a good engineer come from there…they always have minimal knowledge and need OJT. In fact, that school is a red flag as far as I’m concerned.

That’s not recent. Back in the 70s when my father was mid-level management and helping handle an engineering group in an aluminum smelting plant he mentioned that the colleges that interview candidates had gone to for their degrees made a difference. Different schools had reputations for producing “good” or “bad” engineers. I only recall him mentioning Case & Western by name, but not whether they were considered good or bad.

168 darthstar  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:57:58am

I do love a good grocery list of keywords though.

169 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:58:46am

re: #165 FemNaziBitch

How is the day?

My boss and I are currently in the middle of figuring out an RFP for a potential major client. It’s due tomorrow by midnight which sounds like a long time, but holy shit they want a ton of info.

It’s round three, though. I’ve made it this far, so if all goes well, I will land these guys by the end of the week. *crosses fingers*

170 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 11:58:59am

re: #168 darthstar

I do love a good grocery list of keywords though.

So, who won buzzword bingo?

171 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:00:11pm

re: #166 darthstar

Actual copy/paste from a resume I got today from someone who has 2+ years of ‘consulting’ experience as a manual QA tester:

No…I’m not calling them.

How did you get my resume?

I just list all my skills on the front page. Considering >20 years in the industry, there’s a bunch of skills on there. Then there is the chronological experience summary, but recruiters like to see the skills up front.

172 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:00:26pm

I’m in day 4 of migraine. If I get pissy I’m leaving.

so far, it’s manageable.

173 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:01:45pm

re: #157 iossarian

I quite often go looking for solutions to interesting computer science design/programming questions on stackoverflow.com, but it’s amazing how often you see really, *really* basic questions getting asked and answered on there, by people who (according to their profiles) are fully qualified “IT professionals”.

“How do u create variable in javascript I really need to know for review kthx”

Part of the reason I end out searching sites like that for solutions to various IT issues (generally SQL stuff) is that a lot of the documentation nowadays sucks, and the code examples are generally overly simplistic drivel.

This isn’t new either. Coding in VAX FMS to make c-cell forms back in the day annoyed the hell out of me since the documentation had no examples of how to code a field to handle a decimal numeric to include a floating negative sign; e.g. -123.45. Which is something you will see a lot if you do anything that is going to handle money.

(end rant ;) )

174 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:01:53pm
175 Lidane  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:02:00pm

re: #166 darthstar

Haha. That’s awesome.

176 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:04:06pm

re: #162 Kragar (Antichrist )

I actually got told after an interview that I was the only applicant who answered a question “I don’t know the answer, but here is what I would do to find the answer.”

Got the job.

That deserves multiple updings. My curiousity in puzzle solving is what keeps me in the business. Had an intern working for my boss once that had little/no curiosity in learning why something was the way it was. Frustrated the hell out of me.

177 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:04:17pm

re: #171 Vicious Babushka

How did you get my resume?

I just list all my skills on the front page. Considering >20 years in the industry, there’s a bunch of skills on there. Then there is the chronological experience summary, but recruiters like to see the skills up front.

I’ve got a chronology of the jobs I’ve held in the field, with duties and tasks I performed for each one and a contact number to my old managers as a reference. Easier than listing all the various skills and details. Anyone who knows IT will be able to know what skills were required for what jobs.

178 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:05:20pm

re: #172 FemNaziBitch

I’m in day 4 of migraine. If I get pissy I’m leaving.

so far, it’s manageable.

Sorry to hear. One of my feline bosses had me up at 4:30 this morning and my annoying cough is coming back. Rescheduled workout session with my trainer to go home to some soup, new books (I hope) and early bed.

179 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:06:27pm

I’m trying to figure the income breakdown for the Marx/Engels classes in America today.

I have a feeling that many would be surprised to find themselves in the Proletariat.

180 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:07:34pm

re: #164 Vicious Babushka

I started out programming FORTRAN on VAX/VMS. Haven’t seen it since Y2K.

I coded COBOL in VAX/VMS to pay the rent until roughly 1998. And part-time after that until 2005 when a remaining system was put down. Transitioned to SQL coding support during that period and then also into my current hybrid existence of network, SAP security, SQL code, and supporting videoconferencing equipment.

181 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:07:40pm

re: #148 Feline Fearless Leader

There is a Whole Foods 6-8 blocks from where I live. Never been in it. Happy with Trader Joe’s about the same distance away in a different direction and a trip to a MegaWeg (large Wegman’s store) every other week or so.

I like Trader Joe’s but I’m a huge fan of sprouts.

182 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:07:53pm

Oh look a Godwin (or as I like to call them, a Giant Doobie of Derp)

183 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:08:07pm

re: #176 Feline Fearless Leader

That deserves multiple updings. My curiousity in puzzle solving is what keeps me in the business. Had an intern working for my boss once that had little/no curiosity in learning why something was the way it was. Frustrated the hell out of me.

I’m in IT security now. Patch management and compliance. A good portion of the job is digging into failure results, figuring out why a certain patch or fix didn’t work, or why the scanning utility is registering a false positive. You have to be able to figure out and research a problem, not just regurgitate a line from a manual.

184 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:08:13pm

re: #178 Bulworth

Sorry to hear. One of my feline bosses had me up at 4:30 this morning and my annoying cough is coming back. Rescheduled workout session with my trainer to go home to some soup, new books (I hope) and early bed.

{{Bulworth}}}

I think a lot of the recent outbreak of colds, allergies, etc are a result of (shhhh) Climate Change. I think it’s only going to get worse.

I usually have an allergy reprieve from Dec thru Feb, the last two years —not. All the extra drainage isn’t good and only invites colds and other nasties.

185 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:08:26pm

re: #181 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I like Trader Joe’s but I’m a huge fan of sprouts.

alfalfa, bean or brussels?

186 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:08:42pm

re: #182 Vicious Babushka

Oh look a Godwin (or as I like to call them, a Giant Doobie of Derp)

Sounds just like Bryan Fischer.

187 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:09:06pm

re: #181 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I like Trader Joe’s but I’m a huge fan of sprouts.

Sprouts?

188 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:09:50pm

re: #179 FemNaziBitch

I’m trying to figure the income breakdown for the Marx/Engels classes in America today.

I have a feeling that many would be surprised to find themselves in the Proletariat.

Any and all research links are appreciated.

189 Stoatly  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:09:56pm

re: #172 FemNaziBitch

I’m in day 4 of migraine.

You have my sympathy/empathy - I used to get migraines bad enough to make me puke, that was long, long ago and I don’t miss them one bit

190 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:10:09pm

re: #186 Kragar (Antichrist )

Sounds just like Bryan Fischer.

You should look at his timeline. A fuckton Teh Derp.

191 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:11:09pm

re: #185 Vicious Babushka

re: #187 FemNaziBitch

The market, but I admit to liking brussel sprouts with plenty of cider vinegar.

192 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:11:25pm

re: #183 Kragar (Antichrist )

I’m in IT security now. Patch management and compliance. A good portion of the job is digging into failure results, figuring out why a certain patch or fix didn’t work, or why the scanning utility is registering a false positive. You have to be able to figure out and research a problem, not just regurgitate a line from a manual.

I had an option in 2006 to pursue SAP admin (BASIS) or Security. The contractor doing BASIS for us at the time on the implementation project told me that Security was boring. I told him that the Security guy doesn’t get 3am phone calls to come in and fix something.

Then again a friend of mine also told me that I don’t have a job, I have a hobby that happens to pay me money.

193 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:11:32pm

Santa Fe Mayor Wants Clerks To Issue Marriage Licenses To Gay Couples

The resolution is based on a new opinion from the city attorney’s office, which argues that gay marriage is in fact already legal in the state: “New Mexico’s statutory definition of marriage is gender-neutral. Since New Mexico does not define marriage as between a man and a woman, and since New Mexico does not prohibit same-sex marriage, same-sex marriage is permitted in New Mexico.”

Still, getting same-sex marriages recognized by the state is an uphill battle. Bushee predicted it would end up before the state Supreme Court.

194 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:11:34pm

re: #132 Gus

I appreciate the sentiment. But that video is quite weird.

195 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:12:33pm

re: #192 Feline Fearless Leader

I had an option in 2006 to pursue SAP admin (BASIS) or Security. The contractor told me that Security was boring. I told him that the Security guy doesn’t get 3am phone calls to come in and fix something.

Then again a friend of mine also told me that I don’t have a job, I have a hobby that happens to pay me money.

I have gotten plenty of 3 am calls.

196 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:12:54pm

re: #181 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I like Trader Joe’s but I’m a huge fan of sprouts.

For veges I hit one of the local produce markets if I am looking for anything specific. Trader Joe’s does pretty much organic only and charges heavily for it.

197 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:14:06pm

re: #189 Stoatly

You have my sympathy/empathy - I used to get migraines bad enough to make me puke, that was long, long ago and I don’t miss them one bit

My boss was subject to really bad migranes. I think he eventually tracked them to something dietary. Gluten I think.

198 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:15:35pm

re: #196 Feline Fearless Leader

For veges I hit one of the local produce markets if I am looking for anything specific. Trader Joe’s does pretty much organic only and charges heavily for it.

there are two sprouts stores in Vegas. Their cheese selection is awesome and the meats are excellent. They have a fresh deli, awesome bakery and a lot of really good stuff for reasonable prices.

199 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:15:36pm

Although I’m not sure it really has to do with income. It’s more the NEED to work. Those who NEED to work are proletariat or petty bourgeoisie —right?

another differentiation is those who are employers and those who aren’t. —right?

200 Stanley Sea  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:15:39pm

3 brackets done!!! Productive work day here.

201 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:15:59pm

re: #195 Kragar (Antichrist )

I have gotten plenty of 3 am calls.

I get 3am or 4am text messages as well. But that is generally due to a scheduled interface job aborting and not due to an SAP security issue.

202 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:16:07pm

re: #191 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

re: #187 FemNaziBitch

The market, but I admit to liking brussel sprouts with plenty of cider vinegar.

Hubby has been flash frying them with whole garlic cloves.

mmmmmmmmm

203 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:16:34pm

re: #202 FemNaziBitch

Hubby has been flash frying them with whole garlic cloves.

mmmmmmmmm

try doing that with bacon and garlic.

204 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:17:14pm

re: #203 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

try doing that with bacon and garlic.

I don’t eat meat.

205 erik_t  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:17:26pm

re: #200 Stanley Sea

3 brackets done!!! Productive work day here.

To which plucky mid-majors does Kansas blow a game in hilarious and unexpected fashion?

206 Gus  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:17:49pm

re: #194 Charles Johnson

I appreciate the sentiment. But that video is quite weird.

It’s, unique.

207 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:18:18pm

re: #198 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

there are two sprouts stores in Vegas. Their cheese selection is awesome and the meats are excellent. They have a fresh deli, awesome bakery and a lot of really good stuff for reasonable prices.

The big cheese place around Philly is Dibruno Bros. Also good for prepared foods and other specialty stuff.

dibruno.com

208 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:20:26pm

re: #201 Feline Fearless Leader

I get 3am or 4am text messages as well. But that is generally due to a scheduled interface job aborting and not due to an SAP security issue.

Contract policy. If they find a security incident, they want someone who can scan the targets, find any possible holes that were missed, then kick off additional scans ASAP to find any other potential vulnerable systems.

209 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:21:48pm

re: #204 FemNaziBitch

Ah, well then no bacon lol.

210 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:22:43pm

speaking of specialty food, gotta order some pickled kielbasa

211 Stanley Sea  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:24:01pm

re: #205 erik_t

To which plucky mid-majors does Kansas blow a game in hilarious and unexpected fashion?

VCU or Florida.

212 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:24:38pm

re: #208 Kragar (Antichrist )

Contract policy. If they find a security incident, they want someone who can scan the targets, find any possible holes that were missed, then kick off additional scans ASAP to find any other potential vulnerable systems.

Yep. Our network patching is evening and overnight. And also investigative when there are outages. Especially when something like the phone system blips or the network connection between server centers goes down or isolates one of the plants.

213 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:25:41pm

Today brings the news that the Washington Examiner, a free wingnut rag distributed in and around the Nation’s Capitol metro stations and street corners is resigning to spend more time with its family moving from a daily to weekly publishing schedule.

I’m obviously really broken up.

/Not really

214 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:28:18pm

How An Absurd Troll Exposes The Ridiculousness Of America’s Computer Crime Law

Swartz allegedly circumvented access protocols to download JSTOR documents by changing his MAC address. Keys allegedly gave his old credentials to hackers with a blessing to “go fuck some shit up.” Yet, as AT&T confirmed in their testimony during his court case, Auernheimer didn’t crack any code or passwords. He just did the same thing many network security researchers do every day: Snoop around for security flaws, and expose them. Auernheimer certainly did not follow industry best practices — like informing AT&T — but he also didn’t use the information for evil, unless you count making consumers aware of the insecurity of their data as evil. Some might even call that a public service announcement: As Electronic Frontier Foundation Senior Staff Attorney Marcia Hoffman noted, Auernheimer “is facing more than three years in prison because he pointed out that a company failed to protect its users’ data, even though his actions didn’t harm anyone.”

Make no mistake, laws are needed to govern cyberspace. There are dangerous and criminal activities being committed online — maybe some of Auernheimer’s past behavior included — but the AT&T “hacking” wasn’t one such situation. It’s very unlikely that if someone more reputable discovered the same exploit and disclosed it in a more responsible manner, the situation would have resulted in the same criminal case. Indeed, the same technical practice, web crawling, is deployed by large corporations as part of their regular business practices. That alone shows something is majorly amiss in computer crime laws.

215 dragonath  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:30:03pm

re: #213 Bulworth

The time to read newspapers to keep oneself informed is long past, I’m afraid. The local rag was running with the disingenuous “Where’s the Democratic Budget!!!1”

216 dragonath  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:31:50pm

Oh yeah- check out the letters. Read it and weep

Monday’s editorial on global warming is a perfect example of why individuals without a scientific background should refrain from pontificating on this issue.

The writer retrogrades a mere 11,300 years to attempt to prove his point. If the history of the Earth were a 24-hour clock, 11,300 years would be about 1/20th of a second!

Over the course of geologic time (hundreds of millions of years) the Earth’s temperature has fluctuated with regularity between 22 degrees Celsius and 12 degrees Celsius. This so-called “12-22 bracket” has never varied.

Presently, the Earth’s temperature is about 14 degrees Celsius and is anticipated to drop about 2 degrees over the course of the next half million years.

The writer also fails to understand that, for the most part, global warming is merely an annoying inconvenience, whereas global cooling will cause worldwide crop failures, starvation and the end of life as we know it. We got a taste of that during the “Little Ice Age.”

The ditorial department should stick to something it’s good at, like being apologists for the Obama administration, and leave scientific suppositions to those with knowledge and experience.

217 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 19, 2013 12:33:38pm

re: #214 Kragar (Antichrist )

How An Absurd Troll Exposes The Ridiculousness Of America’s Computer Crime Law

You want to avoid computer security flaws with AT&T?

Step one: Drop AT&T.

218 CriticalDragon1177  Wed, Mar 20, 2013 9:34:20am

Charles Johnson,

Well, I’m not surprised, but this is still somewhat disappointing

219 CriticalDragon1177  Wed, Mar 20, 2013 9:38:50am

re: #182 Vicious Babushka

Oh look a Godwin (or as I like to call them, a Giant Doobie of Derp)

I remember people on the left comparing Bush to Hitler, now crazies on the right are comparing Obama to Hitler. Someone should ask these people where the concentration camps are located and why they’re so unafraid of being sent to them for criticizing them?

220 SidewaysQuark  Wed, Mar 20, 2013 10:48:10am

re: #9 Tigger2005

They’d have to pull a Dan Brown and make a regular humble priest the Pope. Or better yet, a nun!

Chances of that are slim to nun.

221 ElCapitanAmerica  Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:09:27am

Well …

Although “nobody has presented evidence that [Cardinal Jorge Mario] Bergoglio was directly involved covering up sex abuse,” the future Pontiff “declined to meet” with clergy sex abuse victims and “did not offer personal apologies or financial restitution,” according to two Washington Post articles.

“One of Argentina’s best-known advocates for child-abuse victims, Sister Martha Pelloni … praised Bergoglio for evolving over the years and taking an increasingly firm stance against predatory clergy,” the newspaper reported. “Now if you go to a bishop with a claim, they’ll say, ‘Report to the police’,” she said. “Bergoglio must have ordered that.”

When clergy sex abuse occurs, “we must never turn a blind eye,” he said in 2012. “I do not believe in taking positions that uphold a certain corporative spirit in order to avoid damaging the image of the institution.”

Have to love the “Nazi” references at the begging of the comments, let’s not drag this site down to the level of comments exhibited at breitbart.com …


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