Supreme Court Takes on Proposition 8

Marriage equality
US News • Views: 35,945

The Supreme Court is hearing arguments on California’s Proposition 8 anti-gay marriage law today, and SCOTUS Blog’s Tom Goldstein thinks it’s likely that the court is not going to strike down the Ninth Circuit’s ruling — which would mean gay marriage would remain legal in California.

Justice Kennedy seemed very unlikely to provide either side with the fifth vote needed to prevail. He was deeply concerned with the wisdom of acting now when in his view the social science of the effects of same-sex marriage is uncertain because it is so new. He also noted the doubts about the petitioners’ standing. So his suggestion was that the case should be dismissed.

If those features of the oral argument hold up - and I think they will - then the Court’s ruling will take one of two forms. First, a majority (the Chief Justice plus the liberal members of the Court) could decide that the petitioners lack standing. That would vacate the Ninth Circuit’s decision but leave in place the district court decision invalidating Proposition 8. Another case with different petitioners (perhaps a government official who did not want to administer a same-sex marriage) could come to the Supreme Court within two to three years, if the Justices were willing to hear it.

Second, the Court may dismiss the case because of an inability to reach a majority. Justice Kennedy takes that view, and Justice Sotomayor indicated that she might join him. Others on the left may agree. That ruling would leave in place the Ninth Circuit’s decision.

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248 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:38:54am

So now Washington DC and California have become two major nodal attraction points for asteroids, meteors or whatever else God is going to send to smite us.

2 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:40:33am

Get used to it, loser.

3 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:41:02am

re: #1 Sol Berdinowitz

So now Washington DC and California have become two major nodal attraction points for asteroids, meteors or whatever else God is going to send to smite us.

Giant Space Hamsters

4 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:41:11am
5 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:41:34am

So in other words the “liberal” SCOTUS has no balls, it would rather punt on this question and avoid being responsible for the consequences of making same-sex marriage legal.

My surprise, let me show you it.///

6 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:41:52am

The lack of standing is the easiest resolution for the court— kicking the can down the road. I bet that’s what happens, it gives the conservatives an easy out while providing the shred of hope they can get a better case.

A better resolution would be the actual hearing of the case, of course. There was no argument made, none at all, in the prop 8 case that established any harm to heterosexual couples from gay marriage.

That is because there is no harm to heterosexuals in letting gay people marry.

7 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:43:15am

re: #4 Gus

Considering what the choad has done over time, I think you could make a case to impeach him and Thomas.

8 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:44:36am

Retweeted from Preview.

9 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:45:17am

re: #7 ProBosniaLiberal

Considering what the choad has done over time, I think you could make a case to impeach him and Thomas.

What are the grounds for impeachment? “Being a choad” isn’t one.

10 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:45:23am

The Breitbrats are spinning like things that spin really fast today. They’re in Opposite Land again, deliberately misrepresenting the situation:

SCOTUS Blog: ‘Key Vote Very Uncomfortable Striking Down Prop 8’

12 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:46:34am

Those two articles are pushing a completely inverted reality. NBC News and SCOTUS Blog actually said the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Nolte is claiming.

13 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:46:40am

re: #9 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

What are the grounds for impeachment? “Being a choad” isn’t one.

Incompetence, at least with Thomas. Scalia’s pretty much just an asshole, and he can’t lose his job over that.

14 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:47:41am
15 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:47:47am

re: #13 Lidane

You’re forgetting corruption in Thomas’s case.

In the case of Scalia, I think you could argue his little workshops with the Tea Partiers broke a few rules.

16 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:48:18am

re: #2 Kragar (Antichrist )

My latest column, “That we’re in court at all is already a defeat,” is now up..

Reminds me of the adage that when you let yourself get drawn into a shouting match with a three-year-old, you have already lost.

17 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:50:46am

re: #2 Kragar (Antichrist )

Fischer taking a defeated tone? Usually he’s out spinning whatever has happened to his side’s advantage.

18 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:50:52am

So much better than Centerfold-Scott Brown it’s like comparing a parsec to a peanut:

19 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:51:12am

re: #15 ProBosniaLiberal

You’re forgetting corruption in Thomas’s case.

I’ve actually had the displeasure of reading some of Thomas’s opinions.

I’m sticking with incompetence. He’s an idiot.

In the case of Scalia, I think you could argue his little workshops with the Tea Partiers broke a few rules.

I don’t see it. Yeah, he’s an asshole, but he’s very smart and actually makes some interesting legal cases when he’s not being a massive tool.

There’s a much stronger case for Thomas being a waste of space on the bench.

20 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:52:20am

Gary Bauer Threatens to Leave GOP if it ‘Bails Out’ on Issue of Marriage Equality

“You can have the dying old bitter white people or everyone else. Time for you to make a choice.”

21 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:52:51am

re: #19 Lidane

The thing here is, Thomas had “forgotten” to declare something in regards to his wife’s income or something like that before.

22 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:54:20am

*headdesk*

23 palomino  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:54:54am

re: #5 Targetpractice

So in other words the “liberal” SCOTUS has no balls, it would rather punt on this question and avoid being responsible for the consequences of making same-sex marriage legal.

My surprise, let me show you it.///

But with only 4 actual liberals, there’s little chance of a landmark decision that drastically changes things. Thomas, Scalia, Alito and probably Roberts won’t go along with anything that recognizes a federal right for same sex marriage. Kennedy’s on the fence, but also probably won’t go that far, which means a compromise decision may be the best that can be hoped for. In which case Prop. 8 might still be struck down, opening the way for the CA legislature and gov. (now a Dem) to pass same sex marriage by statute. Ahhnold wouldn’t sign such legislation when he had the chance, but Jerry Brown will.

Either way, Bryan Fischer is right about one thing—his side has already lost long-term if they’re in court now.

24 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:55:02am

It must suck to realize you can contort the most honorable and distinguished portions of a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, twisting it around your finger to deny basic justice and equal rights, knowing you will be damned by history, only to come to the realization that it doesn’t matter because you’re still going to lose.

Kisses!

25 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:55:31am

re: #22 Lidane

*headdesk*

Until we know why people are straight, we shouldn’t allow people to marry, just to be safe.

26 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:55:45am

re: #22 Lidane

Because we really need to know why people are teh gay before we allow them to live fulfilled lives. /

27 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:56:24am

re: #22 Lidane

*headdesk*

Because otherwise if we let them get their gay into marriage without knowing how the gay works it might get the gay on us and turn us gay.

That’s the only fathomable reason, right?

28 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:57:08am
29 jaunte  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:57:09am

re: #22 Lidane

“Until we know why people divorce (and we don’t know all the reasons), we shouldn’t allow the practice of divorce to weaken traditional marriage.”

30 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:57:16am

re: #22 Lidane

No offense to anybody, but until we know why people are gay (and we don’t), we shouldn’t change traditional marriage.

Because gay is a very modern thing, it has only been around since like, television and stuff.

31 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:57:19am

For the first time in a month, I can actually access comments again!

32 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:57:24am
33 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:58:58am

re: #31 celticdragon

For the first time in a month, I can actually access comments again!

Wondered where you had been hiding.

34 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:59:07am

I confess that I am now getting nervous about tomorrow and DOMA. Predictions earlier today was that getting rid of Prop 8 was a 6-3 slam dunk.

Not the case any more.

35 celticdragon  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 10:59:38am

re: #33 Kragar (Antichrist )

Wondered where you had been hiding.

I have not been able to update firefox for some reason.

36 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:00:04am

re: #32 Gus

Hi.

37 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:01:34am

re: #35 celticdragon

I have not been able to update firefox for some reason.

I had a problem like that a while back, kept trying to update and failing and wouldn’t load unless I rebooted.

I had to save my bookmarks, do a complete uninstall and reinstall it before it would work again.

38 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:01:37am

re: #23 palomino

But with only 4 actual liberals, there’s little chance of a landmark decision that drastically changes things. Thomas, Scalia, Alito and probably Roberts won’t go along with anything that recognizes a federal right for same sex marriage. Kennedy’s on the fence, but also probably won’t go that far, which means a compromise decision may be the best that can be hoped for. In which case Prop. 8 might still be struck down, opening the way for the CA legislature and gov. (now a Dem) to pass same sex marriage by statute. Ahhnold wouldn’t sign such legislation when he had the chance, but Jerry Brown will.

Either way, Bryan Fischer is right about one thing—his side has already lost long-term if they’re in court now.

I grew up hearing form the far-right all about how much of a “liberal” Kennedy was, yet every time I lean in to watch SCOTUS on a case, the man seems reluctant to ever stick out his neck. I’m not sure anymore if he’s naturally risk adverse or if he’s somehow hopeful that his decisions of late are going towards his “legacy.”

39 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:03:12am

Garlow: Supreme Court Trying to ‘Flex Muscles Against Almighty God’ By ‘Obliterating’ Marriage

Because allowing people you don’t like to marry completely destroys it, like when whites and blacks were allowed to marry.

40 Ian G.  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:03:54am

re: #2 Kragar (Antichrist )

Good. Now go give up on the accursed country, go sit in your attic waiting for the rapture, and leave us the flip alone.

41 jaunte  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:07:22am

re: #39 Kragar (Antichrist )

Garlow: “If in reality the homosexual portion of the population is only 3-5%, then it seems to me they have linked up in a profound way with many others who are not homosexual. And I’m not referring to the homosexual who may be the nice one who lives next door; I’m talking about people who are committed to a radical homosexual agenda, they have been able to link up with a number of other groups and the result is that it’s almost like an Antichrist spirit, almost a capacity to silence the Gospel from being proclaimed. Is that an overstatement?”
rightwingwatch.org

He could be wrong; that statement got a “Jesus Christ.”

42 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:07:45am

re: #39 Kragar (Antichrist )

Garlow: Supreme Court Trying to ‘Flex Muscles Against Almighty God’ By ‘Obliterating’ Marriage

Working for Right Wing Watch has got to be just about the demoralizing job ever.

43 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:08:44am

re: #42 erik_t

Working for Right Wing Watch has got to be just about the demoralizing job ever.

Or most hilarious if you are twisted like me. ;)

44 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:09:12am

re: #41 jaunte

Good grief what kind of word salad is that?

45 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:09:28am
I’m talking about people who are committed to a radical homosexual agenda, they have been able to link up with a number of other groups and the result is that it’s almost like an Antichrist spirit, almost a capacity to silence the Gospel from being proclaimed. Is that an overstatement?

Teh Gay is more powerful than the Word? I must not have been paying attention in Sunday school.

46 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:10:36am

New rule, if you invoke the name of the Antichrist into a court case, you lose.

47 jaunte  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:10:46am

re: #44 Bulworth

Unutterable panic.

John Nolte:

It’s almost impossible to imagine the civic chaos that would ensue should all fifty states suddenly be told that they are required to marry same-sex couples.

The ramifications on our religious institutions would be outright harrowing.

48 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:10:51am

re: #36 Varek Raith

Hi.

This one will get rid of the black border and show the drop shadow.

Image: Red-Equality-V3.png

49 jaunte  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:11:50am

HARROWING!

50 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:12:44am

re: #49 jaunte

HARROWING!

Civic chaos of a kind not seen since we gave those damn women the vote.

51 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:13:49am

re: #47 jaunte

Unutterable panic.

John Nolte:

FIRE AND BRIMSTONE COMING DOWN FROM THE SKIES! RIVERS AND SEAS BOILING! FORTY YEARS OF DARKNESS! EARTHQUAKES, VOLCANOES… THE DEAD RISING FROM THE GRAVE!

HUMAN SACRIFICE, CATS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER… MASS HYSTERIA!

52 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:15:36am

re: #13 Lidane

Incompetence, at least with Thomas. Scalia’s pretty much just an asshole, and he can’t lose his job over that.

You can’t impeach for incompetence either.

53 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:19:29am

re: #51 erik_t

Everything’s terrible and getting worse. America is great.

By the way, where are all the freedom-loving, government repression hating teabag partiers in this marriage equality fight?

54 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:19:46am

Okay, avatar changed, this should get nice and confusing.

55 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:21:03am

It’s almost impossible to imagine the civic chaos that would ensue should all fifty states suddenly be told that they can no longer segregate their public schools by race.

The ramifications on our religious institutions would be outright harrowing.

56 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:21:30am

re: #54 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Okay, avatar changed, this should get nice and confusing.

Just don’t change your nic at the same time.

57 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:22:10am

re: #56 wrenchwench

Just don’t change your nic at the same time.

I think the ‘unifying theory’ bit is oddly appropriate to this discussion.

58 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:22:34am

re: #55 Bulworth

Should be in quotes or wingnut font.

59 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:23:03am

re: #55 Bulworth

It’s almost impossible to imagine the civic chaos that would ensue should all fifty states suddenly be told that they can no longer segregate their public schools by race.

The ramifications on our religious institutions would be outright harrowing.

And imagine the horrors that will be inflicted upon this nation if we allow blacks and white to wed! Sheer anarchy, I tells ya!

///

60 Ian G.  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:23:32am

re: #42 erik_t

Working for Right Wing Watch has got to be just about the demoralizing job ever.

Nah, when you realize how much the demographic clock and the tide of public opinion is against the Fischers of the world, you can grab a bag of popcorn and enjoy the histrionics.

61 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:24:05am

Hey Charles. What’s the background color you use for the profile pop-ups? Web color number…

62 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:24:17am
63 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:25:35am

re: #62 Lidane

Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!

/snicker

64 SpaceJesus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:26:07am

JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: Outside of the marriage context, can you think of any other rational basis, reason, for a State using sexual orientation as a factor in denying homosexuals benefits or imposing burdens on them? Is there any other rational decision-making that the Government could make? Denying them a job, not granting them benefits of some sort, any other decision?

MR COOPER: Your honor, I cannot.

65 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:26:18am

re: #61 Gus

Hey Charles. What’s the background color you use for the profile pop-ups? Web color number…

You can take a screenshot, then fire up Paint or whatever to get the RGB, then convert that to hex. Or you can just have it:

#e8e8e8, or 232/232/232 RGB.

66 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:26:44am

re: #61 Gus

Hey Charles. What’s the background color you use for the profile pop-ups? Web color number…

It’s: DADADA, fading to white.

67 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:27:14am

re: #65 erik_t

You can take a screenshot, then fire up Paint or whatever to get the RGB, then convert that to hex. Or you can just have it:

#e8e8e8, or 232/232/232 RGB.

Yeah, was trying that too.

68 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:27:32am
69 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:27:35am

re: #66 Charles Johnson

It’s: DADADA, fading to white.

[Embedded content]

Thanks! B4B4B4 is a nice grey.

70 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:27:59am

According to my Twitters feed, the jobs-unemployment obsessed tweeters with the twitchy team who care so much about jobs and the unemployed are wondering why all the talk now about teh gay and not about JOBS?!

71 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:29:46am

re: #32 Gus

My wife borrowed that for her Facebook and Twitter avatars. She says, “Thanks.”

72 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:30:35am

re: #63 Kragar (Antichrist )

Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!

/snicker

73 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:31:41am

Between this case and North Dakota’s new abortion law, I may have to hibernate for the rest of the week.

74 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:32:06am
75 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:32:08am

re: #32 Gus

All over fb today. Mine as well.

76 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:32:16am
77 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:32:29am

re: #73 FemNaziBitch

Between this case and North Dakota’s new abortion law, I may have to hibernate for the rest of the week.

Today was just the Prop 8 case. Tomorrow, they’re hearing DOMA.

Fun times.

78 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:32:50am

How about that - Twitter supports embedded SoundCloud players.

79 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:33:40am

OK, see if this background matches.

Image: Red-Equality-V7.png

That was with the number. This is with the eye dropper.

Image: Red-Equality-V8.png

80 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:35:08am

re: #77 Lidane

Today was just the Prop 8 case. Tomorrow, they’re hearing DOMA.

Fun times.

I’m beginning to understand why my old(er) liberal friends are the way they are. They lived thru this same upheaval in the 60’s and 70’s when everything was changing and we were in the midst of a stupid war.

The wingnut whackos haven’t forgotten either.

I think this time around it’s really getting to me.

81 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:35:38am

re: #79 Gus

OK, see if this background matches.

Image: Red-Equality-V7.png

That was with the number. This is with the eye dropper.

Image: Red-Equality-V8.png

what program are u doing this in?

82 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:36:11am

Bwahahahaha:

83 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:36:14am

re: #81 FemNaziBitch

what program are u doing this in?

Photoshop

84 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:36:20am

re: #79 Gus

OK, see if this background matches.

Image: Red-Equality-V7.png

That was with the number. This is with the eye dropper.

Image: Red-Equality-V8.png

Since it’s a gradient fill in the profile dialog, the darkest part will only be at the very top.

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:36:38am

re: #80 FemNaziBitch

I’m beginning to understand why my old(er) liberal friends are the way they are. They lived thru this same upheaval in the 60’s and 70’s when everything was changing and we were in the midst of a stupid war.

The wingnut whackos haven’t forgotten either.

I think this time around it’s really getting to me.

And they assumed that the progress we had made in women’s rights, gay rights and abortion rights would continue.

Now we have to work hard to keep it all from being rolled back.

86 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:37:32am

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Since it’s a gradient fill in the profile dialog, the darkest part will only be at the very top.

Ah, I was noticing that while running my dropper across it. The colors were changing. First it was EDEDED than EFEFEF. This ought to be good enough without going bonkers.

87 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:39:16am

re: #86 Gus

Ah, I was noticing that while running my dropper across it. The colors were changing. First it was EDEDED than EFEFEF. This ought to be good enough without going bonkers.

I’m so not math oriented. I hate trying to convert colors to numbers. I read and read and read about it, but it doesn’t sink in. May have to take a class.

88 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:39:50am

My new avatar, which I stole from my cousin’s FB:

Image: grumpy_yes.jpg

89 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:42:05am

I’m also totally understanding the prevalence of recreation drugs during the last period of social/political change in this country.

There simply weren’t/aren’t enough meds.

90 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:44:24am

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Since it’s a gradient fill in the profile dialog, the darkest part will only be at the very top.

Oh, I didn’t even check that…

91 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:44:44am

re: #87 FemNaziBitch

I’m so not math oriented. I hate trying to convert colors to numbers. I read and read and read about it, but it doesn’t sink in. May have to take a class.

Web colors. Don’t know the technical aspects of it. Basically the colors you see on a web page are coded with these web colors such as #B4B4B4 which is a grey. White is #FFFFFF. Any color palette will translate it for you such as on Photoshop.

92 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:45:24am

re: #85 Sol Berdinowitz

And they assumed that the progress we had made in women’s rights, gay rights and abortion rights would continue.

Now we have to work hard to keep it all from being rolled back.

Yes and it is sooo frustration.

Perhaps necessary. The younger people have no idea…

93 calochortus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:46:14am

So, if DOMA is struck down, would that mean that all states have to recognize valid marriages performed in other states whether they were ‘traditional’ or same sex?

94 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:47:17am

re: #91 Gus

Web colors. Don’t know the technical aspects of it. Basically the colors you see on a web page are coded with these web colors such as #B4B4B4 which is a grey. White is #FFFFFF. Any color palette will translate it for you such as on Photoshop.

Yeah, I know. I just can’t seem to convert my brain to the numerical system. I see it, I know it. Just to visual/artistic—my brain doesn’t work that way. Trying to learn is very frustrating. But, I am motivated.

Thanks for the link.

95 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:47:33am

re: #91 Gus

Web colors. Don’t know the technical aspects of it.

Colors are specified by their amount of Red (0 to 255), Green (0 to 255) and Blue (0 to 255), larger numbers being “brighter” in each color. So black is 0,0,0 and white is 255,255,255.

The web palette is merely each of these numbers being converted to base-16 hexadecimal (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F), then smushed together without the commas.

So black is 000000, white is FFFFFF, and a bright red is FF0000.

96 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:49:13am

re: #93 calochortus

So, if DOMA is struck down, would that mean that all states have to recognize valid marriages performed in other states whether they were ‘traditional’ or same sex?

Well, if States have to recognize marriage performed in other countries … . ..

This is what is strange to me. The Whacko State’s Rights supporters want to have their own little fiefdoms (IMHO) mostly based on the Bible. (yes, that is the extreme view, I know). Then they should recognize marriage performed in churches regardless… .

97 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:49:16am

I can’t help but feel a certain schadenfreude the winnings went to someone like him as opposed to a teabagger:

98 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:49:16am

re: #2 Kragar (Antichrist )

When Prop 8 was first challenged in federal court, this is how that initial court appearance should have gone.

Judge: “The people of California have amended their own state constitution to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman. Mr. Attorney, I’m looking in vain for that article of the federal Constitution that explicitly grants me any authority whatsoever to disenfranchise 7 million voters and set aside a state constitution I do not like. I have read the Constitution forward, backward, sideways, and from right to left and I still can’t find it. Can you?”

“Well, your honor, it’s implied in there somewhere. Like in the 14th Amendment.”

“Mr. Attorney, I have read the 14th Amendment repeatedly, and I find no mention of the phrase ‘state constitution’ and in particular I find no mention of the word ‘marriage.’”

“Uh, well, they’re not in there, your honor. But, you know, the Constitution is a living document, so I’m sure it’s grown by now to include all that.”

“Mr. Attorney, I am not interested in some penumbra or emanation, I want chapter and verse. Where does this Constitution explicitly grant the federal judiciary the authority to overturn state Constitutions?”

“Uh, nowhere your honor.”

“That’s exactly what I thought. Get out of my courtroom.”

This is truly scary logic.

99 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:49:51am

re: #97 Interesting Times

I can’t help but feel a certain schadenfreude the winnings went to someone like him as opposed to a teabagger:

Obama rigged the lotterys!!

100 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:50:05am

re: #95 erik_t

Colors are specified by their amount of Red (0 to 255), Green (0 to 255) and Blue (0 to 255), larger numbers being “brighter” in each color. So black is 0,0,0 and white is 255,255,255.

The web palette is merely each of these numbers being converted to base-16 hexadecimal (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F), then smushed together without the commas.

So black is 000000, white is FFFFFF, and a bright red is FF0000.

Thanks.

101 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:50:53am
102 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:51:32am

re: #95 erik_t

Colors are specified by their amount of Red (0 to 255), Green (0 to 255) and Blue (0 to 255), larger numbers being “brighter” in each color. So black is 0,0,0 and white is 255,255,255.

The web palette is merely each of these numbers being converted to base-16 hexadecimal (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F), then smushed together without the commas.

So black is 000000, white is FFFFFF, and a bright red is FF0000.

my vision just blurred.

103 Ian G.  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:54:07am

re: #98 Eclectic Cyborg

This is truly scary logic.

What do you expect from someone who thinks snow in New England in February “disproves” global warming?

104 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:54:16am

re: #95 erik_t

I’ve used hexadecimal for so long it’s second nature to me - I can add hex numbers in my head just like decimal. So I tend to still use the hex notation for colors in my CSS.

But it’s considered good practice these days to use color keywords, which are much more readable for most humans:

w3.org

105 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:54:48am

re: #76 Charles Johnson

Playful!

106 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:55:07am

re: #95 erik_t

Colors are specified by their amount of Red (0 to 255), Green (0 to 255) and Blue (0 to 255), larger numbers being “brighter” in each color. So black is 0,0,0 and white is 255,255,255.

The web palette is merely each of these numbers being converted to base-16 hexadecimal (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F), then smushed together without the commas.

So black is 000000, white is FFFFFF, and a bright red is FF0000.

why 255?

107 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:55:45am

re: #105 iossarian

Ich lieb dich nicht du liebst mich nicht.

108 calochortus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:56:41am

re: #101 Interesting Times

Hmmm, I have a friend who is now without a uterus. She is married, but I guess her marriage is meaningless because a lesbian with a uterus has a greater chance of a miraculous birth than she does?

109 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:56:53am

re: #106 FemNaziBitch

why 255?

It all comes down to the binary nature of computers. The interval between 0 and 255 is 256, which is 2^8, or one byte (eight bits).

110 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:57:25am

re: #109 erik_t

It all comes down to the binary nature of computers. The interval between 0 and 255 is 256, which is 2^8, or one byte (eight bits).

Yeah, I’m lost.

111 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:57:38am

re: #107 Charles Johnson

Ich lieb dich nicht du liebst mich nicht.

I think I must have been a bit young for Da Da Da when it first came out. I do remember it from my yoof though so it must have been still getting play a bit later on.

112 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:58:26am

re: #109 erik_t

It all comes down to the binary nature of computers. The interval between 0 and 255 is 256, which is 2^8, or one byte (eight bits).

all I can think of is “eight bits a dollar

LOL

113 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:58:37am

re: #110 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, I’m lost.

There are 10 types of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don’t.

114 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 11:59:32am

re: #113 Kragar (Antichrist )

There are 10 types of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don’t.

I’ve never even tried.

Is there a book for those of us with brains that want to learn. Like Basic Binary for the not stupid, just ignorant?

115 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:00:20pm

Interestingly, there is no color keyword for #DADADA.

116 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:00:37pm

It’s a dada color.

117 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:01:36pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

It’s a dada color.

Now, I think I learned something about dada in art history class.

LOL

118 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:01:38pm

re: #114 FemNaziBitch

I’ve never even tried.

Is there a book for those of us with brains that want to learn. Like Basic Binary for the not stupid, just ignorant?

This may be relevant to your interests.

119 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:02:17pm

re: #106 FemNaziBitch

why 255?

255 = 2 to the eighth power (256) minus 1. 8 bits in binary.

Legacy of older computer systems.

120 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:02:50pm

re: #114 FemNaziBitch

I’ve never even tried.

Is there a book for those of us with brains that want to learn. Like Basic Binary for the not stupid, just ignorant?

There is a fantastic book that I can highly recommend: Code by Charles Petzold. It goes all the way from basic electrical circuits with switches and light bulbs to the integrated chips that powered early PCs. It’s not dumbed down (you could probably use it as a college textbook in fact) but it’s very readable and accessible for someone starting from scratch.

121 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:02:53pm
122 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:03:35pm

128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1

If you can add, you can understand binary.

Want to make the number 5? 00000101

You turned on the 4 bit and the 1 bit, making 5

Want the number 72? 01001000

You turned on the 64 bit and the 8 bit, making 72.

Its all ones and zeroes.

123 Interesting Times  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:03:50pm
124 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:04:50pm

re: #121 Lidane

Heh:

Image: rollins.jpg

Brilliant. I was just talking with someone who said he’d been to an Iggy Pop concert where Henry Rollins was the “moderator”.

I vehemently disagreed. I cannot see how HR could ever “moderate” anything.

125 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:05:15pm

re: #64 SpaceJesus

MR COOPER: Your honor, I cannot.

Which is like, ultimate failure. As government attorney, give me any statute you like, and I can immediately pop out several rational reasons for it of the top of my head, and all you need to win is one if heightened scrutiny isn’t being applied.

126 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:05:17pm

lifeinc.today.com

How about the IRS preparing your tax return, sending it to you, and then you start from there in deciding if it’s right or not?

Big Government interfering, or making your life easier?

127 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:05:42pm

re: #118 erik_t

This may be relevant to your interests.

There is a 1024-fold difference as opposed to a 1000-fold difference because 1024 is a power of 2 but 1000 is not.)

I may have to go all the way back to 5th grade math.

128 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:06:32pm

re: #119 Feline Fearless Leader

255 = 2 to the eighth power (256) minus 1. 8 bits in binary.

Legacy of older computer systems.

why minus 1?

arbitrary?

129 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:08:03pm

re: #121 Lidane

Heh:

Image: rollins.jpg

excellent

130 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:08:03pm

re: #128 FemNaziBitch

why minus 1?

arbitrary?

128 x 2 becomes the 9th bit.

131 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:08:13pm

re: #101 Interesting Times

two words:
Viagra and Concubines….

132 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:09:13pm

re: #128 FemNaziBitch

why minus 1?

arbitrary?

Because numbering starts from zero, not one. In an 8-bit number, there are 256 possible values, one of which is zero - so the highest possible value is 255.

133 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:09:33pm

re: #130 Kragar (Antichrist )

128 x 2 becomes the 9th bit.

oh wait, like 10 becomes the next decade?

134 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:10:06pm

re: #126 Feline Fearless Leader

lifeinc.today.com

How about the IRS preparing your tax return, sending it to you, and then you start from there in deciding if it’s right or not?

Big Government interfering, or making your life easier?

As long as you can opt out I can’t see the problem. I would love to have the government show me their suggested calculation, check it over, and hit “approve”.

The whole tax prep industry is yet another example of Americans accepting a massively inefficient system in the name of “free enterprise”.

135 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:11:09pm

re: #133 FemNaziBitch

oh wait, like 10 becomes the next decade?

Bingo. You can express 10 different values with a single digit in decimal:

0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

10 is the 11th value!

136 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:11:16pm

re: #134 iossarian

As long as you can opt out I can’t see the problem. I would love to have the government show me their suggested calculation, check it over, and hit “approve”.

The whole tax prep industry is yet another example of Americans accepting a massively inefficient system in the name of “free enterprise”.

Really, it’s like having a public defender. If you can’t do it yourself and you can’t afford a CPA or tax service, the government has to provide it for you.

137 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:11:58pm

re: #135 iossarian

Bingo. You can express 10 different values with a single digit in decimal:

0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

10 is the 11th value!

Whew, I don’t feel totally beyond hope.

138 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:13:03pm

re: #133 FemNaziBitch

oh wait, like 10 becomes the next decade?

Binary number | Standard number

0 | 0
1 | 1
10 | 2
11 | 3
100 | 4
and so on…

10000000 | 128
11111111 | 255
100000000 | 256

139 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:13:39pm

re: #127 FemNaziBitch

I may have to go all the way back to 5th grade math.

This book is sitting on my nightstand.

amazon.com

140 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:13:53pm
141 Mattand  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:14:00pm

re: #121 Lidane

Heh:

Image: rollins.jpg

Sort of an inverse of the Rollins quote:

I have two older relatives who are racist/homphobic/racist. Both have fairly similar views, but one of them is just straight up honest about it. The other gets angry when you point out his racist behavior.

While I detest his views, at least you know what you’re gonna get with the open one. He’s a bigot and proud of it. What’s frustrating about the BID (Bigot In Denial) is that deep down, he know that his behavior is wrong, but makes zero effort to be honest with himself.

142 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:14:16pm

re: #136 FemNaziBitch

Really, it’s like having a public defender. If you can’t do it yourself and you can’t afford a CPA or tax service, the government has to provide it for you.

I do my taxes in a spreadsheet and then use the free filing system, because I’m too cheap for Turbo Tax. The only time so far they’ve been queried was the IRS actually pointing out that I was eligible for a couple of deductions I didn’t take.

Having said that, my taxes aren’t that complicated - I’m a salaried employee with no real distinguishing features*.

* Putting it like that makes it sound like a bad thing!

143 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:14:33pm

re: #139 Feline Fearless Leader

This book is sitting on my nightstand.

amazon.com

ah, I think I saw something about that on iTunes U. or a podcast, Will have to check.

144 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:15:04pm

re: #128 FemNaziBitch

why minus 1?

arbitrary?

256 is 100000000 in binary. 0 to 255 covers using 8 digits.

The “minus one” is really an error on my part. Poor explanation. :p

145 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:15:15pm

And next up, we can discuss variable length subnet masking network design using binary notation.

146 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:16:20pm

re: #135 iossarian

Bingo. You can express 10 different values with a single digit in decimal:

0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

10 is the 11th value!

Sort of like debating whether or not there was a Year 0 in calendars. ;P

147 Mattand  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:16:47pm

re: #145 Kragar (Antichrist )

And next up, we can discuss variable length subnet masking network design using binary notation.

I setup my own VNC with Terminal and Chicken of the VNC. Does that count?

148 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:18:12pm

re: #146 Feline Fearless Leader

Sort of like debating whether or not there was a Year 0 in calendars. ;P

I actually never really understood this until my son was in Montessori School. The Golden Beads made it visual and everything clicked. I may need to go back to pre-school and redo everything in the Montessori Method.

149 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:18:38pm

Screenshot of the day;

Shiigeru Crash Site, Caldari Prime

Image: 2013.03.26.18.53.34.jpg

150 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:19:08pm

re: #145 Kragar (Antichrist )

And next up, we can discuss variable length subnet masking network design using binary notation.

Followed by the discussion of the impact of mixed animal plowing teams on English agrarian production in the years following the Norman Conquest.

151 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:20:35pm

re: #146 Feline Fearless Leader

Sort of like debating whether or not there was a Year 0 in calendars. ;P

Exactly. And indeed there is a comparable computer science debate around offset notation for things like arrays and spreadsheets.

Most “serious” computer scientists agree that you should start counting at zero. I.e., the first element of a group has index “0”, because that’s how many steps you need to move in order to get to it. Most programming languages take this approach.

Others who are closer to a natural language approach argue that the first element of the group should have index “1” because that’s what most people think it should be. Excel does this, for example.

No real right answer, of course.

152 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:21:38pm

re: #150 Feline Fearless Leader

Followed by the discussion of the impact of mixed animal plowing teams on English agrarian production in the years following the Norman Conquest.

Was there civic chaos as a consequence of allowing this unholy alliance of oxen and horses at the yoke?

153 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:21:49pm
154 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:22:29pm

re: #151 iossarian

No real right answer, of course.

Zero is the Holy Index, and VI is his prophet.

155 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:22:50pm

re: #151 iossarian

Exactly. And indeed there is a comparable computer science debate around offset notation for things like arrays and spreadsheets.

Most “serious” computer scientists agree that you should start counting at zero. I.e., the first element of a group has index “0”, because that’s how many steps you need to move in order to get to it. Most programming languages take this approach.

Others who are closer to a natural language approach argue that the first element of the group should have index “1” because that’s what most people think it should be. Excel does this, for example.

No real right answer, of course.

Sadly, it could turn into a political discussion as well. IIRC, Arabs are responsible for all that zero digit stuff. LOL

156 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:24:13pm

re: #151 iossarian

this is one of the most annoying parts of programming. In some cases the array index begins with 0 but the count is 1 based so you have to be sure to add a +1 when actually trying to get the item you want.

157 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:24:20pm

re: #150 Feline Fearless Leader

Followed by the discussion of the impact of mixed animal plowing teams on English agrarian production in the years following the Norman Conquest.

“Oh it’s written in the village rolls
That if one plough-team wants an oxen
And that oxen is lent
Then the villeins and the ploughmen got to have the loooord’s consent.”

-Monty Python

158 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:24:26pm

re: #151 iossarian

Exactly. And indeed there is a comparable computer science debate around offset notation for things like arrays and spreadsheets.

Most “serious” computer scientists agree that you should start counting at zero. I.e., the first element of a group has index “0”, because that’s how many steps you need to move in order to get to it. Most programming languages take this approach.

Others who are closer to a natural language approach argue that the first element of the group should have index “1” because that’s what most people think it should be. Excel does this, for example.

No real right answer, of course.

Right. Though it bothers me when switching between query languages use the different notations. I beat my head on why the substring() commands are not working right and then realize that I’m working from the wrong indexing basis. :p

159 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:24:59pm
160 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:25:24pm

re: #155 FemNaziBitch

I believe there was some math wiz that basically said if you can teach yourself to use a 0 based system vs the 1 based system then you can do most any math problem faster.

161 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:25:41pm

Wow. What a piece of shit.

163 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:26:00pm

re: #152 iossarian

Was there civic chaos as a consequence of allowing this unholy alliance of oxen and horses at the yoke?

Of course. Excommunications right and left. And the Vikings plundering unrepentant isolated monasteries searching for hidden caches of Spam.

164 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:26:05pm

Sadly, my dad understood binary, but never tried to explain it to me. Strange, because he tried to familiarized me with everything.

165 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:26:20pm

Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

Scalia jumped in to make his point when liberal justices were grilling Charles Cooper, the lawyer arguing in favor of Prop 8, California’s ban on gay marriage, about what harm it would cause opposite-sex couples.

“If you redefine marriage to include same-sex couples,” he said, “you must permit adoption by same-sex couples, and there’s considerable disagreement among sociologists as to what the consequences of raising a child in a single-sex family, whether that is harmful to the child or not. Some states do not permit adoption by same-sex couples for that reason.”

“I don’t think we know the answer to that,” he said. “Do you know the answer to that, whether it harms or helps the child? … That’s a possible deleterious effect, isn’t it?”

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg retorted that Scalia’s question was irrelevant because California permits same sex couples to adopt regardless of whether they’re married.

Scalia is a giant lump of shit.

166 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:27:40pm
167 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:27:51pm

re: #165 Kragar (Antichrist )

Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

Scalia is a giant lump of shit.

Not having having parents is harmful to children.

168 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:28:00pm

re: #164 FemNaziBitch

Sadly, my dad understood binary, but never tried to explain it to me. Strange, because he tried to familiarized me with everything.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t.

169 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:28:28pm

re: #157 Sol Berdinowitz

“Oh it’s written in the village rolls
That if one plough-team wants an oxen
And that oxen is lent
Then the villeins and the ploughmen got to have the loooord’s consent.”

-Monty Python

:)

I grew up with the “Matching Tie and Handkerchief” album readily available to be played. I blame my liberal parents. ;)

170 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:29:03pm

re: #168 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don’t.

are you sure it isn’t 9?

171 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:29:42pm

re: #170 FemNaziBitch

Meh :P

172 geoffm33  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:30:00pm

re: #161 Charles Johnson

173 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:31:04pm

re: #162 erik_t

Gus made the front page of the Great Orange Satan, re: that South Carolina veteran-mocking douchenozzle.

Sound the alarm bells! That one is getting around. Daily Kos, Raw Story, Wonkette. Heh, I got the last laugh after being trolled by a bunch of idiots. I was trying to be reasonable with Todd at first. Then he sent over the total douche canoes, “yer just an atheist librul.” Was banjo night.

174 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:31:07pm

re: #158 Feline Fearless Leader

Right. Though it bothers me when switching between query languages use the different notations. I beat my head on why the substring() commands are not working right and then realize that I’m working from the wrong indexing basis. :p

Off-by-one errors must be some of the most frequent bugs in programming. I mean, it’s already quite a challenge to code some relatively simple offset-based algorithms correctly and always give the right answer*, even before you get into questions of whether to start counting at 1 or 0.

* I used to get very smart undergraduates in the early stages of CS degrees to write binary search algorithms over sorted lists, and it’s remarkable how easy it is to introduce quite subtle bugs into even that example.

175 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:31:18pm

re: #138 Kragar (Antichrist )

Binary number | Standard number

0 | 0
1 | 1
10 | 2
11 | 3
100 | 4
and so on…

10000000 | 128
11111111 | 255
100000000 | 256

Why 8 digits?

Yeah, I am really clueless.

176 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:31:40pm

re: #173 Gus

Sound the alarm bells! That one is getting around. Daily Kos, Raw Story, Wonkette. Heh, I got the last laugh after being trolled by a bunch of idiots. I was trying to be reasonable with Todd at first. Then he sent over the total douche canoes, “yer just an atheist librul.” Was banjo night.

Now, how do you convert all this to cash?

177 geoffm33  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:31:41pm

re: #172 geoffm33

178 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:32:24pm

Seeing binary makes my eyes bleed. I had to learn binary math in grad school. It sucked.

179 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:33:28pm

re: #178 Lidane

Seeing binary makes my eyes bleed. I had to learn binary math in grad school. It sucked.

Well, it is interesting once one’s get’s a foot in the door.

But, I feel that way about everything. I live under the delusion that I can understand anything if I am willing to work hard enough and find the right teacher.

180 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:33:48pm

re: #166 Charles Johnson

Matthew Boyle @mboyle1
Curious: who supports President Obama’s decision to allocate secret service to daughters’ Bahamian vacay over ordinary kids’ WH tours?

In a salon column entitled “How Not to Seem Like a Racist”, author Joan Walsh points out that “The theme of most right-wing stories on Sasha, Malia and Michelle Obama’s vacations and leisure-time activities seems to be that they’re entitled princesses, when they do exactly the same kinds of things other presidents’ families have done throughout history. There’s only one difference I can see.”

181 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:34:02pm

re: #174 iossarian

Off-by-one errors must be some of the most frequent bugs in programming. I mean, it’s already quite a challenge to code some relatively simple offset-based algorithms correctly and always give the right answer*, even before you get into questions of whether to start counting at 1 or 0.

they are, trust me.

182 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:34:24pm

re: #174 iossarian

Off-by-one errors must be some of the most frequent bugs in programming. I mean, it’s already quite a challenge to code some relatively simple offset-based algorithms correctly and always give the right answer*, even before you get into questions of whether to start counting at 1 or 0.

* I used to get very smart undergraduates in the early stages of CS degrees to write binary search algorithms over sorted lists, and it’s remarkable how easy it is to introduce quite subtle bugs into even that example.

Did you ever get them into anything *really* esoteric like trying to debug an isolated field or buffer overflow? (shudder)

183 Kragar  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:34:36pm

re: #175 FemNaziBitch

Why 8 digits?

Yeah, I am really clueless.

It was the best hardware could support at the time.

184 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:34:44pm

re: #175 FemNaziBitch

Why 8 digits?

Yeah, I am really clueless.

Because it’s a power of two. All (or rather most) of the logic that goes into integrated circuits tends to scale easily when you double the number of inputs.

So, for example, the circuit that adds two binary numbers together works efficiently for numbers with 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 etc. digits.

This is why personal computers have 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit and now 64-bit designs.

185 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:35:41pm

OUTRAGE!

Heh.

186 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:35:51pm

I’d Tweet something to ol’ Matt Boyle but it would be more productive if I went outside and talked to some rocks.

187 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:36:36pm

What happened in the binary race?

Zero Won.

188 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:37:25pm

re: #180 Sol Berdinowitz

In a salon column entitled “How Not to Seem Like a Racist”, author Joan Walsh points out that “The theme of most right-wing stories on Sasha, Malia and Michelle Obama’s vacations and leisure-time activities seems to be that they’re entitled princesses, when they do exactly the same kinds of things other presidents’ families have done throughout history. There’s only one difference I can see.”

because they aren’t like other president’s kids. Other presidents weren’t ursurpers. They are usurping privileges reserved to legally born and elected racially pure presidential children.

189 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:37:32pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Did you ever get them into anything *really* esoteric like trying to debug an isolated field or buffer overflow? (shudder)

Ha. This was a very theoretical program generally speaking, so although we definitely used those as examples of what would go wrong if they wrote bad code, they weren’t really doing much debugging, except of the relatively simple code they would write for lab sessions.

But even then you’d often get segmentation faults from poor lookup values, so I guess they were seeing that kind of thing a bit.

190 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:37:37pm

Hurr durr…

191 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:37:55pm

re: #184 iossarian

Because it’s a power of two. All (or rather most) of the logic that goes into integrated circuits tends to scale easily when you double the number of inputs.

So, for example, the circuit that adds two binary numbers together works efficiently for numbers with 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 etc. digits.

This is why personal computers have 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit and now 64-bit designs.

oh wait, the minus one part. 256 -ok. I’m not so clueless.

192 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:38:33pm

re: #184 iossarian

Because it’s a power of two. All (or rather most) of the logic that goes into integrated circuits tends to scale easily when you double the number of inputs.

So, for example, the circuit that adds two binary numbers together works efficiently for numbers with 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 etc. digits.

This is why personal computers have 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit and now 64-bit designs.

And the Feynmann book I mentioned earlier does a lot of the basics for computing. Adding numbers, “memory”, etc.

It’s simpler than Legos. There are only three basic pieces (AND, OR, NOT) and then you build everything else from that.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:38:38pm

re: #187 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

What happened in the binary race?

Zero Won.

Who won the swimming race between One Two Three Cat and Un Deux Trois Cat?

One Two Three Cat won because Un Deux Trois Cat sank!

194 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:38:55pm

re: #193 Sol Berdinowitz

lol

195 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:39:07pm

re: #187 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

What happened in the binary race?

Zero Won.

NERD JOKES

Two cats sit on a sloping roof. Which one falls off first?

The one with the smallest mew.

What does a constipated mathematician do?

Works it out with a pencil.

196 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:39:58pm

re: #163 Feline Fearless Leader

Of course. Excommunications right and left. And the Vikings plundering unrepentant isolated monasteries searching for hidden caches of Spam.

“Vikings? There ain’t no Vikings here. Just us honest farmers.
“The town was burning, the villagers were dead.
“They didn’t need those sheep anyway.
“That’s our story and we’re sticking to it.”
—Dan Sorenson

197 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:40:00pm

re: #192 Feline Fearless Leader

And the Feynmann book I mentioned earlier does a lot of the basics for computing. Adding numbers, “memory”, etc.

It’s simpler than Legos. There are only three basic pieces (AND, OR, NOT) and then you build everything else from that.

simple logic equations? without the “ifs, thens and therefores” ?

198 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:40:16pm

French Knock Knock joke: any takers?

Toc toc.

199 iossarian  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:41:42pm

re: #197 FemNaziBitch

simple logic equations? without the “ifs, thens and therefores” ?

Formal logic. “If A then B” just becomes “Either (Not A) or B”.

There’s no room for causality in the CS department.

200 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:41:43pm

re: #164 FemNaziBitch

Sadly, my dad understood binary, but never tried to explain it to me. Strange, because he tried to familiarized me with everything.

My dad taught me Base 10 and that’s how I’ve managed basic arithmetic ever since.

201 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:42:56pm
202 geoffm33  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:42:58pm

re: #190 Lidane

When do they open the Fred Thompson Presidential Library?

203 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:43:01pm

re: #190 Lidane

Hurr durr…

Phear the Fred!!

204 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:43:08pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

My dad taught me Base 10 and that’s how I’ve managed basic arithmetic ever since.

base 9

(snicker)

205 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:43:39pm

re: #199 iossarian

Formal logic. “If A then B” just becomes “Either (Not A) or B”.

There’s no room for causality in the CS department.

I’m much better at logic. Stumbled into a couple of those classes in college —no problem, easy A. Actually fun.

Not that I remember much of the specifics.

206 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:43:46pm

re: #190 Lidane

207 HoosierHoops  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:44:24pm

re: #187 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

What happened in the binary race?

Zero Won.

Years ago when I was getting into Technology and New Software and Apps, I had a Signature on my emails..
No matter how complex the program is..
It’s only just ones and zeros.

208 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:44:45pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

My dad taught me Base 10 and that’s how I’ve managed basic arithmetic ever since.

I’ve just been winging it all these years.

209 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:45:23pm

re: #207 HoosierHoops

Years ago when I was getting into Technology and New Software and Apps, I had a Signature on my emails..
No matter how complex the program is..
It’s only just ones and zeros.

a straight line and a circle are also the basics of all communication. Really cool stuff when you think about it.

210 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:45:31pm

re: #190 Lidane

Hurr durr…

took him all of six months to come up with that zinger?

211 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:45:37pm

Heh:

212 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:47:39pm

re: #161 Charles Johnson

Behold the principled conservative opposition, concerned about jobs, the economy and ‘values’. //

213 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:49:10pm

You know what chore probably hate the most.

shredding paper

I’d rather burn it on the grill.

214 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:49:48pm

Lol.

Amazing how times change. (118+ / 0-)

I remember when 1998 Wal-Mart was the 1998 Microsoft of the retail world.

Now, it appears that 2013 Wal-Mart is…well, actually the 2013 Microsoft of the retail world.

by Brainwrap on Tue Mar 26, 2013 at 08:57:32 AM PDT

215 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:51:30pm

re: #180 Sol Berdinowitz

In a salon column entitled “How Not to Seem Like a Racist”, author Joan Walsh points out that “The theme of most right-wing stories on Sasha, Malia and Michelle Obama’s vacations and leisure-time activities seems to be that they’re entitled princesses, when they do exactly the same kinds of things other presidents’ families have done throughout history. There’s only one difference I can see.”

Hey, we’re just asking questions here!

216 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:52:07pm

NSFW! Oh, too late!

217 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:52:24pm

re: #205 FemNaziBitch

I’m much better at logic. Stumbled into a couple of those classes in college —no problem, easy A. Actually fun.

Not that I remember much of the specifics.

It’s all basic logic. But you only have two values to work with (0,1).
(And if numbers confuse you a lot you can almost substitute No, Yes for the basic operations. Though that breaks down obviously once you start doing math and slightly more complex mechanisms like adders.)

And the three operations:
AND (two inputs, one output)
0,0 -> 0
0,1 -> 0
1,0 -> 0
1,1 -> 1

OR (two inputs, one output)
0,0 -> 0
0,1 -> 1
1,0 -> 1
1,1 -> 1

NOT (one input, one output)
0 -> 1
1 -> 0

218 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:53:21pm
219 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:54:48pm

re: #217 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s all basic logic. But you only have two values to work with (0,1).
(And if numbers confuse you a lot you can almost substitute No, Yes for the basic operations. Though that breaks down obviously once you start doing math and slightly more complex mechanisms like adders.)

And the three operations:
AND (two inputs, one output)
0,0 -> 0
0,1 -> 0
1,0 -> 0
1,1 -> 1

OR (two inputs, one output)
0,0 -> 0
0,1 -> 1
1,0 -> 1
1,1 -> 1

NOT (one input, one output)
0 -> 1
1 -> 0

I’ve seen that before and it makes sense.

Now, how do you make colors on Photoshop based on this?

220 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:54:54pm

There is a new operator though. A variation of the inverter called the “sequester”.

One input - one output
0 -> 0
1 -> 0

221 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:55:03pm
222 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:55:23pm
223 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:56:34pm

re: #222 Gus

Are you surprised? Think about it. Do you think any of these men have ever mopped a floor?
/

224 Lidane  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:56:54pm

Shocka!

225 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:57:05pm

re: #222 Gus

OMFG.

226 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:58:07pm

re: #220 Feline Fearless Leader

There is a new operator though. A variation of the inverter called the “sequester”.

One input - one output
0 -> 0
1 -> 0

sequester? How many definitions does this word have?

227 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:58:12pm

Customers Flee Wal-Mart Empty Shelves for Target, Costco
This is what happens when you treat your workers like shit.

228 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:58:17pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

OMFG.

Nderp!

229 Gus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:58:37pm

Djerp Unchained… The J is silent.

230 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:59:13pm

re: #223 Feline Fearless Leader

Are you surprised? Think about it. Do you think any of these men have ever mopped a floor?
/

No sarc tag needed.

231 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:59:34pm

re: #222 Gus

People who have never worked a minimum-wage job?.

Now, who would that b?

232 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 12:59:57pm

Well I knew Drudge had some low sources, but this was unexpected.

Look at the top of the page

Malware warning? What a way to make your money :-(

233 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:00:05pm

re: #224 Lidane

Shocka!

of course, she is blonde.

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:01:06pm

re: #224 Lidane

On Fox News, Amanda Knox gets TWICE as much coverage as marriage equality

Amanda Knox has cheekbones to die for. Gay marriage doesn’t.

235 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:01:27pm

re: #216 wrenchwench

I gotta get my Orchid crazy wife one of those. What the heck, the 173rd species in house.

236 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:01:35pm

re: #216 wrenchwench

NSFW! Oh, too late!

We need to send these to all the anti gay marriage peeps.

237 calochortus  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:02:22pm

Scalia made a weird argument in asking when the right to same sex marriage appeared. The response was a ‘rhetorical question’ about when the right to interracial marriage first appeared. Scalia answered that was in 1868 with the 14th amendment, and then went on to continue his questioning.
So why did it take something like 99 years for that right to be supported by the Supreme Court?

238 erik_t  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:02:27pm

re: #227 Varek Raith

Customers Flee Wal-Mart Empty Shelves for Target, Costco

Last month, Bloomberg News reported that Wal-Mart was “getting worse” at stocking shelves, according to minutes of an officers’ meeting. An executive vice president had been appointed to work on the restocking issue, according to the document.

I wonder if the Vice President of Restocking Shelves gets health insurance.

/

239 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:02:54pm

re: #235 Political Atheist

I gotta get my Orchid crazy wife one of those. What the heck, the 173rd species in house.

Evolution is now trolling us.

240 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:03:16pm

the bible tells us everything we need to know about marriage

it clearly states that moabite and canaanite women, or any other non-jewish women, cannot be married unless they have been, at the very least, ritually purified in a mikveh

of course, i’m sure all god fearing peoples have made sure they’ve followed the lord’s commandments

241 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:04:32pm

re: #238 erik_t

I wonder if the Vice President of Restocking Shelves gets health insurance.

/

Every company needs a Department of Stacking Things On Top of Other Things.

242 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:04:55pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

Evolution is now trolling us.

Evolution has been patiently waiting for us to become smart enough to appreciate that it’s been trolling us all along.

243 engineer cat  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:07:36pm

re: #199 iossarian

Formal logic. “If A then B” just becomes “Either (Not A) or B”.

There’s no room for causality in the CS department.

de Morgan’s law, q.v.

244 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:08:38pm

re: #243 engineer cat

de Morgan’s law, q.v.

mind those p’s and q’s

245 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:09:37pm

re: #239 Varek Raith

Evolution is now trolling us.

I used to think that Trolls were left behind by evolution, but they keep trying to make a come-back.

246 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:27:32pm

re: #14 erik_t

Yes, Impose! We’ll all be mandated to get same-sex married!

247 stabby  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:48:30pm

re: #199 iossarian

Formal logic. “If A then B” just becomes “Either (Not A) or B”.

There’s no room for causality in the CS department.

If A then B in CS is usually about flow of control, which is a much higher level thing than the logic of binary values that you’re talking about.

So yes, at the lowest level circuits are made of switches that have two states, plus or negative charge (on cmos) or current vs. no current on older kinds of logic. But it’s also true that a lot of stuff including chips are designed at a much higher level more like “if (a complicated process succeeds) then (start a different complicated process) otherwise (start yet another)” a more common meaning of if…then…else

248 stabby  Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:50:12pm

What you were talking about is a truth table where A and B are binary values and you have a function CALLED “if” that returns a different binary value depending on which A and B are


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