Obama Says He’s “Constrained” by the Constitution, Right Wing Bloggers Rave Like Loons

Demented distortions
Wingnuts • Views: 28,746

The deranged right wing blogosphere is at it again, going batshit crazy over a completely uncontroversial statement by President Obama.

Speaking in Denver, the President made the following statement about gun control, pointing out that the US government is prevented from confiscating guns by our Constitution: Obama: ‘I Am Constrained By A System That Our Founders Put In Place’.

“You hear some of these quotes: ‘I need a gun to protect myself from the government.’ ‘We can’t do background checks because the government is going to come take my guns away,’ Obama said. “Well, the government is us. These officials are elected by you. They are elected by you. I am elected by you. I am constrained, as they are constrained, by a system that our Founders put in place. It’s a government of and by and for the people.”

Just a simple statement of fact, right? What could possibly be bad about this? Leave it to the raving kooks of the right wing blogs to find a way to distort Obama’s words and read things into them that he never said — in lockstep unison, because that’s how they do everything.

Ann Althouse thinks Obama actually was saying he’s not constrained (even though it’s the opposite of his actual words): Althouse: Obama: ‘I Am Constrained… by a System That Our Founders Put in Place.’

As a lawprof, I read that to mean that he is not constrained.

The moron at Weasel Zippers thinks Obama was “lamenting” that he was constrained by the Constitution: Obama Laments He’s “Constrained by System Founders Put in Place”… | Weasel Zippers.

At World Net Daily Lite, otherwise known as PJ Media, Bryan Preston falls in line with the talking points: The PJ Tatler » Obama on Gun Confiscation: ‘I am constrained by a system our founders put in place.’

“If only I wasn’t so constrained,” Obama seems to be implying.

And the Internet’s Dumbest Man helpfully provides a lame photoshop of Obama and says he was “taunting” gun owners: King Barack: “I Am Constrained by a System That Our Founders Put in Place” (Video) | the Gateway Pundit

Barack Obama taunted gun owners and complained to supporters yesterday,
“I am constrained by a system our founders put in place.”

It’s like this at every single right wing blog today. The hatred is rotting their brains.

Jump to bottom

278 comments
1 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:47:01am
As a lawprof, I read that to mean that he is not constrained.

IOW, as a law professor, you’re an idiot and a hack?

2 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:48:26am



3 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:49:13am


4 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:49:22am

I posted a comment on Hoft’s site earlier. It was deleted within minutes.

5 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:50:51am
6 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:51:10am
Charles: The hatred is rotting their brains.

The hatred has rotted their brains. There is nothing left.

7 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:51:31am
8 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:51:53am

The only people who’d see this as bad are people who think that ‘constraint’ is always a negative.

10 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:52:54am
As a lawprof, I read that to mean that he is not constrained.

Bizarro Law School.

11 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:53:16am

PJ Media’s Bryan Preston says:

Constrained means “to force by imposed structure, restriction or limitation.”

Um, no. My dictionary has the primary definition of “constrained” as:

severely restrict the scope, extent, or activity of: agricultural development is considerably constrained by climate | we can constrain data access.

And that’s exactly what the Constitution does.

12 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:53:24am

These are the same idiots who keep posting the meme that Obama is burning, trashing, ripping, shredding, trampling, shitting on the Constitution.

13 A Mom Anon  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:54:32am

re: #10 jaunte

So as a “lawprof” she reads something and interprets it to mean the opposite? If I was a student of hers I think I’d want my tuition back.

14 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:55:31am

Obama viciously planning to “retire” from office at the end of his term, citing Constititional constraints. What is his real agenda?

15 Lidane  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:55:53am
The hatred is rotting their brains.

I object on the grounds that we haven’t established that these people even have brains. How can something rot if it doesn’t exist?

16 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:56:22am
17 Kragar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:57:35am

Hannity and Malkin agree, abusing students is awesome

Fox News host Sean Hannity on Wednesday reacted to video of ousted Rutgers basketball coach throwing balls and shouting slurs at players by saying he doesn’t mind a bit of “old-fashioned criticism.”

“He’s very intense,” Hannity said in a segment with conservative commentator Michelle Malkin. “And I’m watching this, and I’m thinking, alright, I don’t like it. He kicked one player there. But on the other hand, you now what, I kind of like old-fashioned discipline, on the other hand. I mean, have we become that politically incorrect? These are adults. They don’t want to play for that team, they can leave.”

Malkin seemed to agree, saying that “sports is a rough world.”

18 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:58:02am

They’re reading into it that he laments that he is constrained by the system.

Ah, gotcha.

But yet he’s still king, or wishes he was one.

The actual evidence?

[crickets]

Look, there are constitutional constraints, but the same US Constitution provides a workaround.

Believe something enough, convince enough people, and you can amend the US Constitution. Heck, we went through this with prohibition. Not only did we amend the constitution once to prohibit alcohol, but we amended it a second time to repeal the prohibition.

No one, not even Obama has called for a repeal of the 2d (which would take an Amendment of its own).

He’s simply stating that we’re working within the existing framework as it relates to the 2d - that the Courts have repeatedly upheld the 2d, including an individual right to bear firearms, but that the Courts have also repeatedly upheld, as recently in Heller, that reasonable restrictions can be put in place - so that someone can’t own a full-auto machine gun, etc.

Althouse is pandering - and wrong.

19 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:58:27am

re: #14 jaunte

20 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:58:37am

re: #11 Charles Johnson

PJ Media’s Bryan Preston says:

Um, no. My dictionary has the primary definition of “constrained” as:

And that’s exactly what the Constitution does.

More importantly, the definition you quoted was obviously the definition Obama meant with his statement.

21 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:59:49am

re: #19 Vicious Babushka

Always a fresh panic.

22 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:59:49am

re: #18 lawhawk

pandering - and wrong

Describes most of right-wing media.

23 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:00:37am

Let’s face it. This is another wingnut shiny object because of ni-CLANG!

24 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:01:30am

DERP

25 Mike Lamb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:03:00am

I think they are really upset because Obama just shattered one of their most prized delusional fantasies.

26 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:03:03am

Obama might be constrained by the Constitution, but the size of our magazines ain’t

27 chadu  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:03:31am

He’s telling/assuring people he can’t take their guns away, because of the Constitution, which means he’s upset he can’t take their guns away, because of the Constitution.

*headdesk*

Obummer says the sky is blue. What is he trying to pull? Hmm, what color is the Democrat party?! #askthequestion #tgdn

28 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:04:47am

re: #27 chadu

He’s telling/assuring people he can’t take their guns away, because of the Constitution, which means he’s upset he can’t take their guns away, because of the Constitution.

*headdesk*

Yep, it’s just that simple.

29 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:04:55am

re: #17 Kragar

Idiots’ delight. We send people to college to learn, or to engage in sports if the person is in a sports program. The colleges and universities have an obligation to keep the students in a safe environment to the extent practical. That means preventing things like sex assaults, child abuse, and actual assualt or hate speech.

There’s a proper way to engage students in sports situations - proper way to teach blocking/defending schemes in basketball. It doesn’t include slapping students or throwing basketballs at their shins. That’s outside the scope of sports and assumed physical contact. It’s assault. And those ESPN videos of the Rutgers coach show repeated examples of assault. Firing was the least of his concerns. It could and should have been referred to law enforcement.

Those athletes aren’t exactly in a position to defend themselves either - they don’t have a position of power to stop it, but the assistant coaches and ADs do. They failed as well. And it’s not just the coach who should be shown the door.

30 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:05:27am

re: #27 chadu

This just means he is going to take their gunz and force them into FEMA trailer death camps and impose the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE and Agenda 21. /

31 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:05:31am

More legal misinformation, just in from today’s Fox News Panic Email
Image: Screen_shot_2013-04-04_at_1.03.01_PM.png

…Megyn asked why – if the Constitution trumps any international treaty – Abbott thinks Americans should be concerned about the United Nations arms agreement. Abbott says his concern is that the U.S. government will use the U.N. as a “backdoor mechanism” to impose gun control measures that they can’t pass in Congress.
…..
“This is a step in a very dangerous direction. The argument can be made that the treaty is worded so vaguely that there is no specific violation of the Second Amendment right now, but there could be a violation later on depending on the way that the United Nations applies and interprets this treaty,” said Abbott.

32 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:06:23am

re: #25 Mike Lamb

Welcome, hatchling.

33 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:07:22am

Every time you try to talk a wingnut down off the ledge they just inch further towards the edge.

34 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:07:25am

re: #31 jaunte

More legal misinformation, just in from today’s Fox News Panic Email
Image: Screen_shot_2013-04-04_at_1.03.01_PM.png

AGENDA 21!!!

35 Lidane  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:07:42am

Hurr durr…

36 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:07:43am

Is Baldwin having a moment of clarity here by retweeting what I said, or is he doing that “RT because I think this is wrong” thing?

Why I hate Twitter reason #44.

37 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:08:26am

re: #34 wrenchwench

Abbot just chose to ignore the question, and goose the irrational fear.

38 chadu  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:08:39am

re: #30 Bulworth

Benghazi! Fast & Furious! Tearing down Saint Ronnie’s childhood home in Chicago!

39 Lidane  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:08:57am

re: #33 Randall Gross

Every time you try to talk a wingnut down off the ledge they just inch further towards the edge.

That’s because they get off on the adrenaline rush they get from hating and/or fearing Obama. They’re hate junkies always looking for the next fix.

40 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:09:05am

MOAR FAKE QUOTEZ

41 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:10:17am

re: #35 Lidane

Obama: Government Tyranny Impossible Because ‘Government is Us’ :

Democratically and freely elected? Check. Continuity with previous system? Check. Black liberal President? TYRANNY!!!

42 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:10:18am

DERP

43 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:11:31am

DERP

44 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:12:58am

If only wingnuts like Cuccinelli thought the Constitution constrained them we wouldn’t have these abortion restrictions, transvaginal wand exames and the like.

45 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:14:25am

DERP

46 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:14:46am

re: #16 Vicious Babushka

From that site:

But on Wednesday, President Obama took his gun control push a step further: He admitted that only the Constitution stands between him and full gun confiscation.

Only the Constitution constrains him. What else is he supposed to be constrained by?

47 Dr. Matt  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:15:30am
As a lawprof, I read that to mean that he is not constrained.

As a law prof you should be banned from being a fucking idiot about matters dealing with the law.

48 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:16:13am

re: #44 Bulworth

If only wingnuts like Cuccinelli thought the Constitution constrained them we wouldn’t have these abortion restrictions, transvaginal wand exames and the like.

See it’s liberty for Cuccinnelli to tell people how they can and cannot have sex. Obama stating that he’s constrained by the Constituion though is oh my god outrage. Really, I wish I could get in these people’s heads if only for a minute to see the thought process.

49 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:16:34am

DERP DERP
Dumbass u can’t use EBT for ANYTHING that is not food.

50 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:16:49am

re: #36 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Is Baldwin having a moment of clarity here by retweeting what I said, or is he doing that “RT because I think this is wrong” thing?

Why I hate Twitter reason #44.

If you talk sense to a wingnut, and they RT it, the only explanation that makes sense is that they’re using the breitbart “durr hurr, everybody go spam this evil librul” bullying tactic.

51 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:17:30am

re: #49 Vicious Babushka

This rebranding is going so well…

52 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:18:12am

How conveinent that Dim Jim ignores Obama saying that lawmakers are constrained too. But hey we got an outrage to run here and Accuracy In Media’s journalist of the year is on top of it. What a sorry joke this guy is.

53 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:19:46am

Autozone & tanning place probably have snack counter. You can buy junk food with EBT. Food Stamp program was started to get rid of huge govt surplus of HFCS.

54 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:20:39am

DERP DERP

55 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:22:16am

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

DERP

INTERPOL has no police.
snopes.com

56 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:22:46am

re: #53 Vicious Babushka

Autozone & tanning place probably have snack counter. You can buy junk food with EBT. Food Stamp program was started to get rid of huge govt surplus of HFCS.

No, they probably bought non-food items.

See, what a lot of people don’t know is that the EBT gets “fed” through two different programs: SNAP and TANF.

SNAP is what used to be food stamps. TANF is a support-till-working program meant to pay other-than-food bills and expenses.

But since they use the same card we get people thinking food stamps are used to buy non-food items.

57 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:22:58am

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

The government controls our water supply!!!!

“Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol?”

58 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:23:32am

And our Armed Forces!!! Who let this happen?!?

59 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:23:40am

re: #56 kirkspencer

No, they probably bought non-food items.

See, what a lot of people don’t know is that the EBT gets “fed” through two different programs: SNAP and TANF.

SNAP is what used to be food stamps. TANF is a support-till-working program meant to pay other-than-food bills and expenses.

But since they use the same card we get people thinking food stamps are used to buy non-food items.

How would I know that? I work!

60 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:23:46am

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

Tied to Sandy Hook troofers, Agenda 21 nonsense, Freeman stripe of “Sovereign Citizen” movement (the dangerous flavor) and NWO, with a gratuitous stab at banksters. Quite the specimen you found there.

61 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:24:27am

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

DERP

It was signed in 2009

62 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:25:14am

WE ARE TEH GUN EXPERTZ!!11!


63 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:25:40am

Monkeys are controlling our Wall Street.

64 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:26:59am

DERP

65 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:28:06am

re: #64 Vicious Babushka

Cuz I haz most Constitutional experteeze.

66 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:28:41am

It’s a full hive swarm now.

67 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:29:22am

re: #64 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Okay fine impeach Obama and the judges you don’t like and you get Biden and more liberal judges that you’ll hate. Stupid idiots never think their shit through.

68 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:31:45am

re: #66 Vicious Babushka

Well, it was a pretty dangerous effn gun. 20 kids were slaughtered. The tweeter apparently doesn’t care about that.

69 Mike Lamb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:31:48am

re: #66 Vicious Babushka

Which clearly means that those children and teachers weren’t massacred with horrifying precision and efficiency.

70 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:33:06am

Jim Hoft is a one-man factory of stupid today:

Jim Hoft and Judicial Watch: Black Lifeguards Will Murder All the Children With Drowning

71 calochortus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:34:17am

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

DERP DERP

Yes, I see something wrong, but probably not what the author had in mind…

72 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:35:41am

re: #59 Vicious Babushka

How would I know that? I work!

grin.

I know it because I’ve had unfortunate experience. Most of the whiners about poor getting all these great deals haven’t had the experience, haven’t been through the joy, don’t have a clue.

Simplest example? You have to have less than $2400 in total assets to get SNAP. There are a couple of exemptions (one car, for example, so you can maybe go to work someday). And if you are married with one child, don’t earn more than $2100 (actually a bit less, I’m rounding) PER HOUSEHOLD. And to cap it, the closer you are to that $2100 the less SNAP you get.

73 Ming  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:35:43am

It is very unfortunate, but worth noting, how successful the demonization of President Obama has been. Many Americans, perhaps millions of Americans, really believe the worst about him.

In the real world, the statement by the President could be viewed as an expression of admiration, even love, for America and our Constitution: “Well, the government is us. These officials are elected by you. They are elected by you. I am elected by you. I am constrained, as they are constrained, by a system that our Founders put in place. It’s a government of and by and for the people.”

If you ACTUALLY READ The Audacity of Hope, you see statements like the above all the time: constant compliments to America, and to our constitutional system. But many people never read the book, The Audacity of Hope, but instead listen to the same drivel about the President, 24/7, from people talking ABOUT the book, or ABOUT the President.

74 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:35:52am

re: #68 Bulworth

Well, it was a pretty dangerous effn gun. 20 kids were slaughtered. The tweeter apparently doesn’t care about that.

YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT 20 KIDS, WHAT ABOUT 50 MILLION ABORSHUNZ!!11!!

75 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:36:32am

If Bush had said that, he would be considered humble.

76 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:36:43am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

That is some amazing stupid.

77 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:37:02am

Women Are Dying at Higher Rates in Nearly Half of All Counties

look at the map

78 jaunte  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:37:15am

re: #66 Vicious Babushka

The distinction between semi-automatic and fully automatic is now pretty slim.
(About $300).
motherjones.com

“It’s just like an M-16!” the shooter in the YouTube video above exclaims.

79 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:37:57am

re: #76 Bulworth

That is some amazing stupid.

It takes constant effort to remain “The stupidest person on the internet”. Hoft appears equal to the challenge.

80 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:39:06am

re: #56 kirkspencer

No, they probably bought non-food items.

See, what a lot of people don’t know is that the EBT gets “fed” through two different programs: SNAP and TANF.

SNAP is what used to be food stamps. TANF is a support-till-working program meant to pay other-than-food bills and expenses.

But since they use the same card we get people thinking food stamps are used to buy non-food items.

some blog calling itself Mr.Conservative (I won’t link) is tauting that there are some millions of fraud in the “food stamp” program under Obama, with links only to it’s own articles.

Why do people re-post this shit (from my fb?)

81 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:39:46am

re: #79 EPR-radar

Well, the Judicial Watch is lending a hand, too.

82 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:41:20am

DERP DERP

83 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:41:41am

SURE ENOUGH:

84 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:42:03am

Of course the life guards hired to be life guards will be given training, which is of course the same thing as HAVING LIFE GUARDS WHO CANT SWIM!!!

85 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:42:07am

What has amused me is the apparent 180 degree opposed views some people can have about President Obama and the current administration yet not seem to notice the conflict. On one hand some feel that he is so omnipotent that were it not for some silly piece of paper written 200 years ago, he could snap his hands and all the guns would fly out of our hands, cases, pick-up trucks, and gun safes into the governments vaults. Yet at the same time the meme yesterday was that the administration is so fouled up and incompetent that it can’t even enact the centerpiece portion of its own health act (marketplace selection of health plans for small businesses) and need another year or two to get the job done.

86 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:42:32am
87 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:42:33am

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

It’s automatic.

88 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:42:45am

re: #49 Vicious Babushka

DERP DERP
Dumbass u can’t use EBT for ANYTHING that is not food.

You can thank your corporate lobbyists that our tax dollars pay for junk food!

89 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:43:36am

re: #87 Bulworth

It’s automatic.

Full auto or semi auto?

90 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:44:06am

re: #89 Vicious Babushka

Full auto or semi auto?

The idiocy?

Full Auto

91 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:44:20am

re: #88 FemNaziBitch

You can thank your corporate lobbyists that our tax dollars pay for junk food!

BE THANKFUL THAT U HAV HFCS TO SWEETEN UR GRUEL!!11!!

92 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:44:24am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Jim Hoft is a one-man factory of stupid today:

Jim Hoft and Judicial Watch: Black Lifeguards Will Murder All the Children With Drowning

What the fuck.

93 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:44:31am

Interesting comments on the article linked in this tweet…one person goes off on a rant about the home owners being partially responsible for their own demise.

94 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:45:46am

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


95 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:46:07am

re: #90 FemNaziBitch

The idiocy?

Full Auto

Gas-operated.

96 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:46:23am

re: #93 darthstar

Interesting comments on the article linked in this tweet…one person goes off on a rant about the home owners being partially responsible for their own demise.

You should know better than to buy a house anywhere near a pipeline or where they might build one.

/

97 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:46:49am

This link was prefaced on fb with the disclaimer “This is not an ONION article.” I’ll add to that by saying we did not enter the Tardis before reading this article.

Segregated Prom: Wilcox County, GA. High School Students Set Up First Integrated Prom

A group of high school students in Wilcox County High School, GA., are taking a stand against their school’s practice of holding racially-segregated proms by organizing the first-ever integrated prom in the school’s history.

Stephanie Sinnot, Mareshia Rucker, Quanesha Wallace, and Keela Bloodworth are lifelong friends, who say they do everything together. Stephanie and Keela are white; Mareshia and Quanesha are black, which means that they would not have been able to attend prom together, they told WSAV

“We are all friends,” Stephanie told WSAV. “That’s just kind of not right that we can’t go to prom together.”

The school holds separate proms for white and non-white students. Homecoming is also normally segregated, with separate courts for each race.

If a student attempted to cross the segregation divide “They would probably have the police come out there and escort them off the premises,” said Keela.

98 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:48:39am

re: #86 Charles Johnson

Facebook doesn’t want to sell you a phone. You’re not a compulsive shopper. They want the girl I saw on the train looking at $35 necklaces on her phone…and buying one…or the woman who was in front of me in line at the bar at The Surf Spot in Pacifica last weekend who went onto eBay and bought a year’s worth of razors, then bragged about it to her husband when he came to join her. That’s who they want to sell phones to. People who buy shit for the sake of buying shit without thinking about whether they need or want it. In other words, those real Americans we hear wingnuts talk about in election years.

99 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:48:50am

re: #97 FemNaziBitch

This link was prefaced on fb with the disclaimer “This is not an ONION article.” I’ll add to that by saying we did not enter the Tardis before reading this article.

Segregated Prom: Wilcox County, GA. High School Students Set Up First Integrated Prom

How the fuck was that legal? Amazes me to read this kind of stuff.

100 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:49:19am
101 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:49:32am

Just in case anyone needs the facts, the Red Cross life guard test requires you to swim 300 yards continuously (any stroke, just can’t stop) and also to be able swim out 20 yards, dive down in 10 feet of water and retrieve a 10 pound object and to get that object and yourself out of the pool without using the side ladder.

Trust me if you can pass this you are a good enough swimmer to be a lifeguard.

102 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:50:35am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Jim Hoft is a one-man factory of stupid today:

Jim Hoft and Judicial Watch: Black Lifeguards Will Murder All the Children With Drowning

“Judicial Watch reported, via Free Republic:”

Nothing more to say.

103 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:50:45am

re: #101 Big Steve

Just in case anyone needs the facts, the Red Cross life guard test requires you to swim 300 yards continuously (any stroke, just can’t stop) and also to be able swim out 20 yards, dive down in 10 feet of water and retrieve a 10 pound object and to get that object and yourself out of the pool without using the side ladder.

Trust me if you can pass this you are a good enough swimmer to be a lifeguard.

Well seems like my kid brother will have a perfect summer job as a teenager then. Kid’s a great swimmer.

104 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:51:12am

re: #97 FemNaziBitch

This link was prefaced on fb with the disclaimer “This is not an ONION article.” I’ll add to that by saying we did not enter the Tardis before reading this article.

Segregated Prom: Wilcox County, GA. High School Students Set Up First Integrated Prom

Less than 10 years ago the principal of a Wedowee, AL highschool canceled the prom rather than integrate. He was booted, reinstated, and the school was burned. Old times here are not forgotten.

en.wikipedia.org

105 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:51:57am

I’m guessing this guy’s a Mitch McConnell fan…from my home county in Northern California.

Image: 883676_633225773360884_313304117_o.jpg

106 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:52:23am

DERP

107 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:52:45am

I did not know that.

108 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:52:58am

re: #104 Decatur Deb

Less than 10 years ago the principal of a Wedowee, AL highschool canceled the prom rather than integrate. He was booted, reinstated, and the school was burned. Old times here are not forgotten.

en.wikipedia.org

I remember reading something about that and being astounded.

109 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:02am

re: #108 Sol Berdinowitz

I remember reading something about that and being astounded.

At the length?

That LBJ would go to?

110 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:40am

re: #80 FemNaziBitch

some blog calling itself Mr.Conservative (I won’t link) is tauting that there are some millions of fraud in the “food stamp” program under Obama, with links only to it’s own articles.

Why do people re-post this shit (from my fb?)

I could be sarcastic. Instead, it’s a combination of things. My opinion is the largest factor is a residual bastardization of a calvinistic tenet: if you are tight with God, God shall reward you, and He shall see the sinful suffer. By the “book” that reward is after death, but the bastardization is that it applies in the world. That spins onward to the belief that the poor are that way because they are “guilty” and, while we may aid individuals, allowing them to gain without our direct intervention is working against God.

Add to this a feudalistic principle that trade is zero-sum. I cannot profit save that I screw someone else. A number of principles and laws of economics have shown this is false, but it’s s”?till “intuitively obvious”. So if someone - the poor - is getting money to buy anything other than the cheapest, most minimalistic food and supplies, then he did it by stealing from someone else. And since “we all know” the plans are tax-funded, he did it by stealing from tax-payers.

111 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:42am

re: #107 Charles Johnson

I did not know that.

I can believe that.

112 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:44am

Pastor Jesse Lee Peterson Claims Obama Racist Against Whites, Mother ‘Hated Being White’

But Peterson objected, claiming that Obama doesn’t identify with his white half at all and speculated that his mother was at the root of these alleged opinions.

“His mother, she hated her color,” Peterson said. “She hated being white and I’m thinking, I don’t have a whole lot of proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white. I think he may have been brought up not to accept that side of himself and that adds to him being a racist because he doesn’t really respect white folks.”

Peterson also called Obama evil, a socialist and possibly a Muslim.

Right wing activists (and according to BuzzFeed, a bunch of people on social media) have long claimed — without proof — that Obama is racist. But this unsupported accusation against his mother, Ann Dunham, is new.
…
Peterson, on the other hand, created controversy of a different sort in May 2012, when he gave a sermon claiming “one of the greatest mistakes America made was to allow women the opportunity to vote.”

113 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:49am

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

I wonder how the Newtown parents and families would feel about this comparison?

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:51am

re: #108 Sol Berdinowitz

I remember reading something about that and being astounded.

Next town over from where my elder daughter teaches. In some way this is linked to my tolerance for semi-auto shotguns.

115 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:54:59am

re: #107 Charles Johnson

I did not know that.

The media wanted you to think he showed them his appendectomy scar.

116 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:55:44am

re: #112 FemNaziBitch

Pastor Jesse Lee Peterson Claims Obama Racist Against Whites, Mother ‘Hated Being White’

Attacking a dead woman who can’t defend herself. I guess the good reverend missed the bearing false witness part of the Bible but then again I bet he misses a lot of the Bible.

117 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:56:35am

BUT STATES CAN DECLARE A STATE RELIGION. DERP.

118 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:57:14am

re: #117 Vicious Babushka

STATES RIGHTS!!

119 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:57:15am

re: #107 Charles Johnson

I did not know that.

I don’t remember that specific incident, but he did whip it out to employees (according to Robert Caro’s books).

Some strange man thing.

120 Kragar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:57:18am

Paul Cameron: Gay People More Likely to Have Sex With Children and Animals

Paul Cameron, chairman of the anti-gay Family Research Institute, frequently claims that gay people want to rape children. Or, as he once put it, “The long term goal of the homosexual movement is to get every little boy to grab his ankles and every little girl to give it a try.”

Cameron, whose “research” has been used by numerous Religious Right groups and was cited recently in an essay promoted by RNC committeeman and Michigan Republican lawmaker Dave Agema, told the National Press Club today that around one in four gay men have sex with children “as part of their sexual repertoire.”

He asserted that “parents are very leery about having their children sleep over or have homosexuals’ children sleep over with their children, they just don’t know what’s going to happen.”

Cameron also claimed that the adults in his study “who had reported [having] a homosexual parent…seemed to account for a disproportionate number of those who reported sex with their parents and sex with friends of their parents

121 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:57:28am

re: #112 FemNaziBitch

Pastor Jesse Lee Peterson Claims Obama Racist Against Whites, Mother ‘Hated Being White’

“I don’t have a whole lot of proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white.”

A pastor accepting something as accurate without proof. I’m not surprised.

122 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:57:51am

re: #112 FemNaziBitch

Pastor Jesse Lee Peterson Claims Obama Racist Against Whites, Mother ‘Hated Being White’

“…His mother, she hated her color,” Peterson said. “She hated being white and I’m thinking, I don’t have a whole lot of proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white…”

What proof do you need when you have the Truth on your side?

123 Mattand  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:57:51am

re: #85 Big Steve

What has amused me is the apparent 180 degree opposed views some people can have about President Obama and the current administration yet not seem to notice the conflict. On one hand some feel that he is so omnipotent that were it not for some silly piece of paper written 200 years ago, he could snap his hands and all the guns would fly out of our hands, cases, pick-up trucks, and gun safes into the governments vaults. Yet at the same time the meme yesterday was that the administration is so fouled up and incompetent that it can’t even enact the centerpiece portion of its own health act (marketplace selection of health plans for small businesses) and need another year or two to get the job done.

I think by “some people”, you mean “a sizable chunk of Republicans and conservatives”.

124 Kragar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:58:12am

re: #121 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

“I don’t have a whole lot of proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white.”

A pastor accepting something as accurate without proof. I’m not surprised.

Once you accept Jesus died for your sins, everything else is gravy.

125 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:58:40am

re: #119 FemNaziBitch

I don’t remember that specific incident, but he did whip it out to employees (according to Robert Caro’s books).

Some strange man thing.

Some men have to go outside and pee in their yard.

126 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:58:43am

re: #121 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

“I don’t have a whole lot of proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white.”

A pastor accepting something as accurate without proof. I’m not surprised.

Derp of Faith.

127 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:58:50am

re: #101 Big Steve

Just in case anyone needs the facts, the Red Cross life guard test requires you to swim 300 yards continuously (any stroke, just can’t stop) and also to be able swim out 20 yards, dive down in 10 feet of water and retrieve a 10 pound object and to get that object and yourself out of the pool without using the side ladder.

Trust me if you can pass this you are a good enough swimmer to be a lifeguard.

Unless it’s changed from when I was a life-guard there are a few other tests, but none of them require the ability to use a starting block, sprint to one side of the pool, flip-turn, and sprint back using one of four constrained strokes.

Agreed, if you pass the test you’re a good enough swimmer to be a lifeguard.

128 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:58:53am

re: #121 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

“I don’t have a whole lot of any proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white.”

A pastor accepting something as accurate without proof. I’m not surprised.

Fxd

129 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:58:58am

re: #120 Kragar

Paul Cameron: Gay People More Likely to Have Sex With Children and Animals

Explains why such gay groups like the Boy Scouts of America and Roman Catholic Church have had such a problem with pedophilia.

130 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 11:59:58am

Now it’s morphing.

131 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:00:23pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Explains why such gay groups like the Boy Scouts of America and Roman Catholic Church have had such a problem with pedophilia.

And with PETA.

132 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:00:53pm

re: #131 Decatur Deb

And with PETA.

and the military

133 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:00:54pm

*FACE PALM*

134 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:00:56pm

re: #127 kirkspencer

Unless it’s changed from when I was a life-guard there are a few other tests, but none of them require the ability to use a starting block, sprint to one side of the pool, flip-turn, and sprint back using one of four constrained strokes.

Agreed, if you pass the test you’re a good enough swimmer to be a lifeguard.

Yep….in fact on the lifeguard test you can dog paddle the 300 yards just got to make sure you don’t stop along the way.

135 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:01:21pm

re: #130 Vicious Babushka

Now it’s morphing.

Mistake, and fairly poor staff prep work.

136 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:01:59pm

re: #130 Vicious Babushka

Now it’s morphing.

Who gives a fuck. He used an ugly looking gun. That is all people see. Ban all ugly looking guns and a certain percentage of people will think that solves the problem. They don’t want to know the facts, they want to feel good.

I’m so tired of it all. Nothing will change.

*sigh*

137 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:02:35pm

re: #120 Kragar

Paul Cameron: Gay People More Likely to Have Sex With Children and Animals

He adds that a reference to pets in a gay person’s obituary is a sign of his or her “estrangement from humanity,” adding that 20% of gay men “reported having had sex with an animal.”

This doesn’t even get up to the level of dream analysis.

138 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:03:09pm

DERP. FAKE QUOTE STYLE.

139 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:03:21pm

re: #124 Kragar

Once you accept Jesus died for your sins, everything else is gravy.

I don’t like gravy.

140 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:03:59pm

re: #130 Vicious Babushka

Now it’s morphing.

COVER UP!

141 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:04:00pm

re: #137 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

” adding that 20% of gay men “reported having had sex with an animal.”

What part of Alabama is he from?

142 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:04:18pm

re: #139 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I don’t like gravy.

I hate Ranch salad dressing.

143 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:04:55pm

re: #135 Decatur Deb

Mistake, and fairly poor staff prep work.

Did he refer to the gun as “nucular”

144 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:05:14pm

14% of white conservative evangelical male Christians have reported sticking their own head up their ass.

145 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:06:11pm

re: #135 Decatur Deb

Mistake, and fairly poor staff prep work.

And it doesn’t matter. This really is a group of ants trying to make a mole hill into a mountain.

146 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:07:27pm

re: #136 FemNaziBitch

Who gives a fuck. He used an ugly looking gun. That is all people see. Ban all ugly looking guns and a certain percentage of people will think that solves the problem. They don’t want to know the facts, they want to feel good.

I’m so tired of it all. Nothing will change.

*sigh*

Guns that can get off 30 shots in 15 seconds are not like guns that can’t come close.

147 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:08:18pm

re: #142 Gus

I hate Ranch salad dressing.

I hate cabbage rolls.

148 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:08:33pm

As for Obama’s “fully automatic” statement, he may have misspoken there. Technically that AR15 was not “fully automatic,” because you had to squeeze the trigger for every shot.

But with the extended magazines, Lanza was able to fire more than 100 rounds in less than 5 minutes. That may not fit the technical hair-splitting definition, but in actuality, the line between “fully” and “semi” automatic is not as sharply defined as the pro-gun lobby would have it.

149 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:08:40pm

re: #145 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

And it doesn’t matter. This really is a group of ants trying to make a mole hill into a mountain.

Matters because it cements the morale and resolve of the ants. You don’t let your 2-star make that kind of detail error.

150 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:09:13pm

re: #144 HappyWarrior

14% of white conservative evangelical male Christians have reported sticking their own head up their ass.

If you whisper in their ears they hear echos.

151 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:10:23pm

re: #148 Charles Johnson

As for Obama’s “fully automatic” statement, he may have misspoken there. Technically that AR15 was not “fully automatic,” because you had to squeeze the trigger for every shot.

But with the extended magazines, Lanza was able to fire more than 100 rounds in less than 5 minutes. That may not fit the technical hair-splitting definition, but in actuality, the line between “fully” and “semi” automatic is not as sharply defined as the pro-gun lobby would have it.

It is a non-relevant talking point.

They want to demonize Obama by any means possible.

152 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:10:32pm

Another LBJ story. Apparently the Soviets liked to tweak the Americans with technology advances. Once they had their ambassador deliver to LBJ what was purported to be the “worlds smallest drill bit.” LBJ had a hole drilled lengthwise in it and sent it back.

153 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:10:34pm

But of course, the pro-gunners are going to make this into a huge deal, because technicalities like this are an easy propaganda tool for them.

154 BongCrodny  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:11:01pm

re: #144 HappyWarrior

14% of white conservative evangelical male Christians have reported sticking their own head up their ass.

Seems kinda low.

155 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:11:25pm

re: #148 Charles Johnson

As for Obama’s “fully automatic” statement, he may have misspoken there. Technically that AR15 was not “fully automatic,” because you had to squeeze the trigger for every shot.

But with the extended magazines, Lanza was able to fire more than 100 rounds in less than 5 minutes. That may not fit the technical hair-splitting definition, but in actuality, the line between “fully” and “semi” automatic is not as sharply defined as the pro-gun lobby would have it.

The gun lobby is making it a matter of morality that each and every american doesn’t know the difference.

156 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:11:34pm

re: #149 Decatur Deb

Matters because it cements the morale and resolve of the ants. You don’t let your 2-star make that kind of detail error.

A bit of contact adhesive poured on their antennae works better.

157 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:12:34pm

re: #154 BongCrodny

Seems kinda low.

Not all of them have short legs.

158 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:12:42pm

re: #153 Charles Johnson

But of course, the pro-gunners are going to make this into a huge deal, because technicalities like this are an easy propaganda tool for them.

But they are claiming that he “deliberately lied” and ALSO that he “let slip a fact that’s been covered up.” WHICH IS IT WINGNUTS?

159 Mike Lamb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:14:05pm

re: #148 Charles Johnson

Or Obama is a genius and he’s getting wingnuts to emphasize for everyone that the gun in question that killed 20 children and teachers was in fact a semi-auto, which is now the subject of gun control legislation.

160 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:14:17pm

re: #152 Big Steve

Another LBJ story. Apparently the Soviets liked to tweak the Americans with technology advances. Once they had their ambassador deliver to LBJ what was purported to be the “worlds smallest drill bit.” LBJ had a hole drilled lengthwise in it and sent it back.

Recalls a cold-war one-upsmanship joke. A Soviet trade delegation was said to place an order for 12 inch by 3 inch condoms with a US manufacturer. They were tooled up, produced, packed, and shipped as “Small”.

161 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:14:22pm

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

Also, too: Abortion! Planned Parenthood! Benghazi!

162 Big Steve  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:15:04pm

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

But they are claiming that he “deliberately lied” and ALSO that he “let slip a fact that’s been covered up.” WHICH IS IT WINGNUTS?

The ex wife of Big Steve used to always assume I was lying whenever I made a mistake.

163 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:15:07pm

re: #155 FemNaziBitch

The gun lobby is making it a matter of morality that each and every american doesn’t know the difference.

Second only to the “clip” vs “magazine” scandal.

164 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:16:14pm

And calling the Bushmaster AR15 a “semi-auto” weapon minimizes what it really is. It fires a large caliber, high velocity bullet that does horrific damage to the human body. It’s a weapon designed for warfare, and limiting the number of bullets it can fire does not change that.

165 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:16:33pm

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

But they are claiming that he “deliberately lied” and ALSO that he “let slip a fact that’s been covered up.” WHICH IS IT WINGNUTS?

Obama lied so fully automatic weapons will be banned.

Wait, new ones are already banned and pre-1986 weapons are tightly regulated.

So why did Obama lie again?

166 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:17:21pm

re: #165 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Sshhh—you’re spoiling it.

167 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:17:32pm

re: #127 kirkspencer

Red Cross certification, training, and manuals.

This seems to be the normal requirements for lifeguarding:

Shallow water lifeguard prerequisite swim tests are:

1. Swim 100 yards continuously, using front crawl (freestyle), breaststroke or a combination of both. Swimming on the back or side is not permitted.

(There is no time limit for this first test. Red Cross rules say you can wear goggles for this part of the test.) The De Anza Olympic-sized pool is 25 yards wide.

2. Tread water for two minutes without support and without stopping, using only your legs. Your hands will be placed under your armpits. Your body position must be near vertical, not horizontal. Your treading is not considered proficient if you swim rather than tread or if your mouth sinks below the surface.

3. Timed Event - Starting in the water, swim 20 yards using front crawl or breaststroke or a combination of both, submerge to depth of 4 to 5 feet, retrieve a 10-pound object, return to the surface, walk or swim 20 yards back to the starting point with the object at the surface of the water, exit the water without using a ladder or steps within 50 seconds.

When you submerge to get the weight some people need only bend over to be able to reach it, some will need to do a surface dive. When we tried this test in swim classes we found that long strides on the walk back was faster for some people than quick bouncing steps. Holding the weight up out of the water, and keeping your arms/elbows out of the water creates less drag and was faster for most people. Since we are not a two week certification class you will have time to try it, (more than once if you need to), before the official test. Red Cross rules do not allow goggles for this part of the test.

Lifeguard prerequisite swim tests are:

1. Swim 300 yards continuously, using front crawl (freestyle), breaststroke or a combination of both. Swimming on the back or side is not permitted.

(There is no time limit for this first test. Goggles are allowed.)

2. Tread water for two minutes without support and without stoping, using only your legs. Your hands will be placed under your armpits. Your head must remain above the surface of the water. Your body position must be near vertical, not horizontal. Your treading is not considered proficient if you swim rather than tread or if your mouth sinks below the surface.

3. Timed Event - Starting in the water, swim 20 yards using front crawl or breaststroke (your face may be in or out of the water), surface dive (feet first or head-first) to a depth of 7-10 feet, retrieve a 10-pound object, return to the surface, swim 20 yards back to the starting point with the object, place it on the deck, exit the water without using a ladder or steps within 1 minute, 40 seconds.

For the surface dive, the Red Cross allows either a feetfirst or head first surface dive. The Red Cross requires that you keep both hands on the weight as you swim back to the side and have your face at or near the surface so you are able to get breaths. You can swim on your back using any propellant kick, such as an elementary backstroke kick, sidestroke or a rotary kick (the eggbeater water polo players use). You are not allowed to swim the distance underwater. The time (under one minute, forty seconds) will be complete when you are out of the pool. Red Cross rules do not allow goggles for this part of the test.

Besides that, no one is going to allow a lifeguard who isn’t proficient at swimming because of liability concerns (IOW - getting sued out of existence).

168 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:18:06pm

re: #162 Big Steve

The ex wife of Big Steve used to always assume I was lying whenever I made a mistake.

You should have started lying.

169 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:18:22pm

re: #159 Mike Lamb

Or Obama is a genius and he’s getting wingnuts to emphasize for everyone that the gun in question that killed 20 children and teachers was in fact a semi-auto, which is now the subject of gun control legislation.

Could be dangerous for the gun nuts if the debate shifts to real issues, like “capable of firing X rounds in Y seconds” as opposed to semi- vs. full- automatic.

I’d be content if reasonable numbers for X and Y were set, and everything over those values was included in the licensing scheme presently in place for full-automatic weapons.

170 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:18:35pm

re: #138 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAKE QUOTE STYLE.

Cowards? I had a colleague in our Charlotte, NC office ask me why I didn’t have a gun for protection and I told her I didn’t live my life in fear. Meanwhile she carries when she goes to the supermarket. I simply couldn’t live such a fearful paranoid life.

171 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:19:16pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

And calling the Bushmaster AR15 a “semi-auto” weapon minimizes what it really is. It fires a large caliber, high velocity bullet that does horrific damage to the human body. It’s a weapon designed for warfare, and limiting the number of bullets it can fire does not change that.

If the report that he left a legal semi-auto shotgun with a 70-round drum magazine in his trunk are true, he ignorantly went for the less lethal choice.

172 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:20:09pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

And calling the Bushmaster AR15 a “semi-auto” weapon minimizes what it really is. It fires a large caliber, high velocity bullet that does horrific damage to the human body. It’s a weapon designed for warfare, and limiting the number of bullets it can fire does not change that.

I don’t think .223 is large calibre. BWTFDIK
High velocity isn’t hard to believe seeing the cartridge.

173 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:20:09pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

And calling the Bushmaster AR15 a “semi-auto” weapon minimizes what it really is. It fires a large caliber, high velocity bullet that does horrific damage to the human body. It’s a weapon designed for warfare, and limiting the number of bullets it can fire does not change that.

umm. the .223 is not “large caliber”. You need to get above .30 for most people in the industry to start agreeing with that label, whether it’s 30-30 or .308.

The rest of your statement is absolutely correct, but opponents of your position will seize on your error as a means of defeating the remainder.

174 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:20:47pm

re: #138 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAKE QUOTE STYLE.

And they were traumatized by a “law-abiding” gun owner who massacred 20 children and 6 other innocents in a matter of minutes. But no matter. The moar gunz cult holds that there can be no regulation of any kind, so the killings must continue until the universal love of all weapons lethal improves.

175 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:22:08pm

re: #172 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I don’t think .223 is large calibre. BWTFDIK
High velocity isn’t hard to believe seeing the cartridge.

Yeah, with the gun arguments it seems to be something like “.223 is not large caliber therefore your argument is invalid!” I guess in PBO’s case it’s “an AR-15 is not automatic therefore your argument is invalid.” Happens time and time again.

176 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:22:45pm

re: #170 leftynyc

Cowards? I had a colleague in our Charlotte, NC office ask me why I didn’t have a gun for protection and I told her I didn’t live my life in fear. Meanwhile she carries when she goes to the supermarket. I simply couldn’t live such a fearful paranoid life.

Numbers are not at hand, but it’s quite possible that the rural areas around Charlotte have a higher murder rate than NYC. I won that one with my wife a few years ago, re our small AL town.

178 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:24:07pm

re: #175 Gus

Yeah, with the gun arguments it seems to be something like “.223 is not large caliber therefore your argument is invalid!” I guess in PBO’s case it’s “an AR-15 is not automatic therefore your argument is invalid.” Happens time and time again.

It’s stupid. You see the same thing with the Civil War too.

179 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:24:14pm

re: #177 Gus

Chihuahua fatally shot, cops say neighbor felt dog was attacking

I had to read that twice. My brain said it was Chthulu. Couldn’t quite grapple with Chihuahua.

180 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:25:20pm

re: #175 Gus

Yeah, with the gun arguments it seems to be something like “.223 is not large caliber therefore your argument is invalid!” I guess in PBO’s case it’s “an AR-15 is not automatic therefore your argument is invalid.” Happens time and time again.

IMHO it doesn’t matter what the specs are, what matters is how many it can kill before others react. A single shot 50cal can blow through an aluminum block before killing a graboid, but it takes a while to reload.

181 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:26:03pm

re: #175 Gus

Yeah, with the gun arguments it seems to be something like “.223 is not large caliber therefore your argument is invalid!” I guess in PBO’s case it’s “an AR-15 is not automatic therefore your argument is invalid.” Happens time and time again.

“If one part of your argument is invalid the whole argument is invalid.” Also “if you agree with any part of MY statement you agree with it all and I win the argument.” These are pretty much the entire rules of their so-called debate.

To be fair it’s a rather human process, not the sole province of the right. See for example some of PETA’s “debates”.

182 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:26:06pm

The .223 is a much larger bullet than anything used by a handgun. Excuse me if it’s not technically considered “large caliber,” but here’s the difference between a .22 round and a .223 round:

Image: ZZ12864D46.jpg

183 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:26:31pm

re: #177 Gus

Chihuahua fatally shot, cops say neighbor felt dog was attacking

The worlds most dangerous dogs. They should be banned.

Especially the teacup chihuahua.

184 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:26:42pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

The .223 is a much larger bullet than anything used by a handgun. Excuse me if it’s not technically considered “large caliber,” but here’s the difference between a .22 round and a .223 round:

Image: ZZ12864D46.jpg

Whoa dude.

185 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:27:17pm

re: #180 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

IMHO it doesn’t matter what the specs are, what matters is how many it can kill before others react. A single shot 50cal can blow through an aluminum block before killing a graboid, but it takes a while to reload.

Agreed. That’s why I’d like to see this come down to “X rounds in Y seconds”. For what values of X and Y do we start putting in extra regulations?

186 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:27:31pm

alexjonesquotes.com

187 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:27:33pm

re: #183 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

The worlds most dangerous dogs. They should be banned.

Especially the teacup chihuahua.

A good example of why to keep your dog on a leash —for ITs protection. Anyone doesn’t like dogs will have a perfectly legal reason to execute it if it is off leash.

this asshole didn’t think the dog was attacking, he saw a good excuse for moving target practice.

188 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:28:44pm

You can give a really big powerful gun of almost any type to a sports shooter and not have a problem. People do hunt with AR/SKS/AK type rifles. There are service rifle competitions designed around military issued models.

You can give a tiny little .22 caliber revolver of simple manufacture to a killer and lose a leading Presidential candidate. Every person in the room with Bobby Kennedy that got hit went down.

As long as we focus only on the guns we will see little or no change in day to day violence. Focusing on the guns serves the propagandists of both sides.

189 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:29:49pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

The .223 is a much larger bullet than anything used by a handgun. Excuse me if it’s not technically considered “large caliber,” but here’s the difference between a .22 round and a .223 round:

Image: ZZ12864D46.jpg

Bad argument to get caught up in—there are too many definitions of the terms involved. (At my installation, anything up to .50 was under the Small Caliber Weapons Systems Lab.)

190 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:29:59pm

re: #188 Political Atheist

You can give a really big powerful gun of almost any type to a sports shooter and not have a problem. People do hunt with AR/SKS/AK type rifles. There are service rifle competitions designed around military issued models.

You can give a tiny little .22 caliber revolver of simple manufacture to a killer and lose a leading Presidential candidate. Every person in the room with Bobby Kennedy that got hit went down.

As long as we focus only on the guns we will see little or no change in day to day violence. Focusing on the guns serves the propagandists of both sides.

Reagan. .22 revolver.

191 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:30:50pm

TEH GUS802 WANTS TO BAN .22 REVOLVERS!!11ty

192 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:31:11pm

re: #179 FemNaziBitch

I had to read that twice. My brain said it was Chthulu. Couldn’t quite grapple with Chihuahua.

if your dog is a chthulu, it’s not affected by mere earthly bullets

193 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:31:30pm

re: #190 Gus

Reagan. .22 revolver.

This might be a double edged example —- had Reagan been hit with a larger or more powerful round, he might have died.

194 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:31:36pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

The .223 is a much larger bullet than anything used by a handgun. Excuse me if it’s not technically considered “large caliber,” but here’s the difference between a .22 round and a .223 round:

Image: ZZ12864D46.jpg

Kinetic energy is 1/2mv2 so an easy way to make a small mass bullet more dangerous is to make it faster by adding gunpowder. The mass is much less important than the velocity.

195 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:32:26pm

re: #183 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

The worlds most dangerous dogs. They should be banned.

Especially the teacup chihuahua.

I got attacked by a pack of Chihuahuas once when Banjo was a puppy. The back of my hand was damp, DAMP! I tell you! from their little tongues.

196 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:32:43pm

re: #190 Gus

Reagan. .22 revolver.

And it still didn’t make him any smarter.

197 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:32:51pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

The .223 is a much larger bullet than anything used by a handgun. Excuse me if it’s not technically considered “large caliber,” but here’s the difference between a .22 round and a .223 round:

Image: ZZ12864D46.jpg

Caliber is diameter. I’ll excuse you if you want, but you have to cut slack to people who misuse computer or musical terminology. You also need to know it puts you in the trap of arguing a semantic side-show instead of the main point.

Drop the “large caliber” as it really doesn’t matter in the context. What matters is the high velocity, large capacity, and rapid reload of a system originally designed for war. Letting the little minds get you tangled over the semantics of caliber is a waste.

198 dragonath  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:33:05pm

Japan unveils massive stimulus plan

199 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:33:15pm

re: #192 engineer cat

if your dog is a chthulu, it’s not affected by mere earthly bullets

If your dog is a Chthulu/Pomeranian mix, it’s more irritating than it is evil.

200 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:33:33pm

re: #195 darthstar

I got attacked by a pack of Chihuahuas once when Banjo was a puppy. The back of my hand was damp, DAMP! I tell you! from their little tongues.

You are so lucky you got out alive.

201 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:33:37pm

chthulu

by the way, i’m pretty sure lovecraft was inspired to create this name by this interesting english word:

chthonic

say “iK-THonic”

202 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:34:14pm

re: #201 engineer cat

chthulu

by the way, i’m pretty sure lovecraft was influence in the creation of this name by this interesting english word:

chthonic

say “iK-THonic”

So, it’s really iK-thulu?

203 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:34:29pm

Make what you will of this. A young girl fires a pistol made for the .223 cartridge. it’s a single shot pistol made specifically for hunting and target shooting. Observe the recoil etc. This is a strictly sport shooting kind of thing.

Youtube Video
204 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:34:38pm

re: #199 Decatur Deb

If your dog is a Chthulu/Pomeranian mix, it’s more irritating than it is evil.

It’s evilly irritating.

205 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:34:40pm

re: #200 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

You are so lucky you got out alive.

I damn near giggled to death.

206 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:35:17pm
207 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:35:47pm

re: #206 Gus

Damn. RIP Roger.

208 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:36:02pm

re: #202 FemNaziBitch

So, it’s really iK-thulu?

if we really say his (its?) name properly, we will manifest him, so be careful!

209 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:36:25pm

re: #206 Gus

Damn.

I loved his tweets.

210 Lidane  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:36:25pm

re: #206 Gus

Two thumbs down. :(

RIP Roger Ebert.

211 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:36:31pm
212 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:36:36pm

re: #208 engineer cat

if we really say his (its?) name properly, we will manifest him, so be careful!

ah!

213 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:37:03pm

re: #206 Gus

Oh no.

214 Dr. Matt  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:37:42pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

The .223 is a much larger bullet than anything used by a handgun. Excuse me if it’s not technically considered “large caliber,” but here’s the difference between a .22 round and a .223 round:

Image: ZZ12864D46.jpg

Technically, there is very little difference in the caliber of the “projectile” (i.e. the bullet) between the 0.22 and 0.223. In the photo, the “projectile”, or bullet, is the tip of each round which is crimped into a casing (actually the casing is crimped around the bullet…..I digress).

The casing is what makes the 0.223 appear larger than the 0.22. But, the size/caliber of the two bullets are actually very similar. The casing contains the primer and gunpowder and the latter is what makes the 0.223 a more potent round than the 0.22. Because there is more gunpowder in the 0.223 casing, it has more penetration power than the 0.22. Basically, it’s like putting a 426 Hemi engine (0.223) in a VW bug versus a 4 cylinder (0.22) in the same car.

Edit: For clarity here is the anatomy of a round: Image: BulletReference_Anatomy_01.png

215 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:37:45pm

Last Tweet.

Fixed URL: blogs.suntimes.com

216 erik_t  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:37:53pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

Damn. RIP Roger.

I’m glad that he didn’t linger once he started the final descent. Finish your career, give your vast legion of fans one last salute, say your goodbyes to family and kick the bucket.

I hope I can pull it off that well when the time comes.

217 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:38:58pm

re: #176 Decatur Deb

Numbers are not at hand, but it’s quite possible that the rural areas around Charlotte have a higher murder rate than NYC. I won that one with my wife a few years ago, re our small AL town.

When I showed her the stats that NYC is the safest big city in the country, she went very silent. She doesn’t like that whenever she goes off on an “Obama is the devil” rant, I simply laugh at her and tell her there are wonderful medications for paranoia these days.

218 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:40:54pm

re: #216 erik_t
Like Ian M. Banks, who asked his partner to marry him now that he knows he has terminal cancer. Why he’s doing it, who knows— romance, so that she can inherit from him, to say fuck you to cancer— but whatever it is, it’s an action taken in the face of death and I applaud him for it.

219 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:41:17pm

re: #215 Gus

That was fast. Despite the most recent diagnosis, it seemed from his last post that he would be around a while. Enjoyed his writing, on movies and other things, very much. RIP.

220 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:41:35pm

re: #24 Vicious Babushka

Derp is right

221 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:41:43pm

re: #217 leftynyc

It’s like the map that Vicious put together showing gun violence and how places like NYC are actually quite safe as compared to other parts of the country - on a per capita basis.

222 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:41:47pm

Roger Ebert’s last post, two days ago:

blogs.suntimes.com

223 darthstar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:41:56pm

re: #215 Gus

Last Tweet.

Fixed URL: blogs.suntimes.com

Wow…talk about timing.

224 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:42:36pm

re: #200 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

You are so lucky you got out alive.

Meanwhile, while I would have loved to take care of my boss’s chihuahua while he was on vacation, I was afraid my cat would kill her.

225 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:42:52pm

re: #130 Vicious Babushka

Now it’s morphing.

FULLYAUTOGHAZI!!@!!

226 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:43:10pm

re: #185 EPR-radar

Agreed. That’s why I’d like to see this come down to “X rounds in Y seconds”. For what values of X and Y do we start putting in extra regulations?

OK, here’s the problem with that. This video shows a gentleman (I think it was Bob Munden) with a revolver shooting three times. It’s not very long so watch to the very end, where he shoots six shots, reloads, and shoots six more (all hitting the target) all in less than 3 seconds. While that’s exceptional there is a whole subset of speed shooting which would render almost every possible weapon void in X over Y second measures. Training and talent matter.

227 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:43:13pm

re: #221 lawhawk

It’s like the map that Vicious put together showing gun violence and how places like NYC are actually quite safe as compared to other parts of the country - on a per capita basis.

On the other hand, we don’t get hit by flying manhole covers.

228 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:43:25pm

re: #189 Decatur Deb

Besides the military AR does not take the .223, it takes the more powerful version of the same overall size. .223 is a sub military round. Put the military round in your .223 and expect it to burst or fail.

That’s two distinct ways civilian version differ from the guns used in war.

Reminds me of the corvette. Fast enough to be deadly if abused. But it’s far from a race car.

229 dragonath  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:43:29pm

Ebert was an excellent writer to the end. He even had a good comment section, a rarity.

I really liked him as a critic too.

230 Gus  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:43:29pm

re: #223 darthstar

Wow…talk about timing.

I had a neighbor that had cancer. Used to see him in the elevator all the time. I didn’t know he had cancer. I just thought he just shaved his head. One day, boom, he was gone.

231 CriticalDragon1177  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:44:20pm

Charles Johnson by the way, if the Republicans want to complain about people stepping out of bounds, they really need to take a look at their own party, especially when they do stuff like this.

GOP Rebranding Watch: NC Republicans Sponsor Bill to Declare Christianity the State Religion
littlegreenfootballs.com

232 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:45:26pm

re: #222 Charles Johnson

This is about as rapid as what happened with Peter Jennings.

233 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:46:11pm

re: #228 Political Atheist

Besides the military AR does not take the .223, it takes the more powerful version of the same overall size. .223 is a sub military round. Put the military round in your .223 and expect it to burst or fail.

That’s two distinct ways civilian version differ from the guns used in war.

Reminds me of the corvette. Fast enough to be deadly if abused. But it’s far from a race car.

At what point does the weapon make a difference?

234 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:46:20pm

re: #232 ProBosniaLiberal

This is about as rapid as what happened with Peter Jennings.

I still miss Jennings. Damn fine anchor. Had a sense of humor and I remember watching the series he did on the 20th century in middle school.

235 Dr. Matt  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:46:32pm

re: #228 Political Atheist

. Put the military round in your .223 and expect it to burst or fail..

If you’re referring to the 5.56 NATO, that’s not entirely accurate. Most rifles can fire both the 5.56 NATO and 0.223 Remi…especially more recently manufactured rifles.

236 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:46:57pm

re: #234 HappyWarrior

He also had an enrapturing voice.

237 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:48:16pm

re: #179 FemNaziBitch

I had to read that twice. My brain said it was Chthulu. Couldn’t quite grapple with Chihuahua.

Fortunately for Cthulhu, being fatally shot is not a permanent impediment. He can just go back and wait dreaming in R’lyeh until the stars are right.

238 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:48:41pm

migraine—going back to bed

day 2

have a good one all!

239 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:48:45pm

re: #228 Political Atheist

The gun was obviously extremely effective at what it was designed to do: killing large numbers of people very quickly. In fact, it may have been better than an automatic weapon would have been at the job, since this guy was aiming.

Guns are really, really, really good at killing people. Even the ‘civilian’ versions.

240 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:49:02pm

re: #236 ProBosniaLiberal

He also had an enrapturing voice.

Yeah. Hard to believe that’s ten years nearly. Year I graduated high school.

241 dragonath  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:50:29pm

Charles Schulz dropped off pretty quick too

242 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:50:33pm

re: #228 Political Atheist

Besides the military AR does not take the .223, it takes the more powerful version of the same overall size. .223 is a sub military round. Put the military round in your .223 and expect it to burst or fail.

That’s two distinct ways civilian version differ from the guns used in war.

Reminds me of the corvette. Fast enough to be deadly if abused. But it’s far from a race car.

Document that, please. Because my experience is otherwise. 5.56 NATO Ball in some .223 chambers can have issues (usually leading to accuracy problems) but I’ve never seen an actual burst or fail.

243 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:50:49pm

re: #233 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

At what point does the weapon make a difference?

As soon as it gets into the hands of a reckless, suicidal or murderous person.
( I do support the ten round limit and regulating who can have the most powerful guns.) I’m a huge fan of universal instant check.

244 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:53:47pm

I get very impatient with technical arguments over terminology when we’re talking about classrooms full of children blown to pieces by a weapon designed for warfare.

245 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:54:17pm

re: #202 FemNaziBitch

So, it’s really iK-thulu?

1. the ‘ch’ in ‘chthonic’ is silent.

2. Cthulhu doesn’t even have a ‘ch’.

3. Wikipedia on the pronunication of ‘Cthulhu’.

246 Shvaughn  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:54:31pm

RIP Roger Ebert.

247 EPR-radar  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:54:37pm

re: #226 kirkspencer

OK, here’s the problem with that. This video shows a gentleman (I think it was Bob Munden) with a revolver shooting three times. It’s not very long so watch to the very end, where he shoots six shots, reloads, and shoots six more (all hitting the target) all in less than 3 seconds. While that’s exceptional there is a whole subset of speed shooting which would render almost every possible weapon void in X over Y second measures. Training and talent matter.

Most of that could be avoided if it were changed to X rounds in Y seconds without reloading.

248 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:54:56pm

re: #239 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Guns are one important item on the list of machines and devices that kill. A rented truck and a load of fertilizer did one hell of a job one day. Another almost took down the WTC.

You know what gun controls I support. Where we differ might be what we expect to actually change if those rules pass.

249 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:55:50pm

re: #239 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The gun was obviously extremely effective at what it was designed to do: killing large numbers of people very quickly. In fact, it may have been better than an automatic weapon would have been at the job, since this guy was aiming.

Guns are really, really, really good at killing people. Even the ‘civilian’ versions.

Spoons, not so much.

Youtube Video
250 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:56:42pm

re: #245 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

1. the ‘ch’ in ‘chthonic’ is silent.

2. Cthulhu doesn’t even have a ‘ch’.

3. Wikipedia on the pronunication of ‘Cthulhu’.

teh wikipedia do sez that you can pronounce the ‘ch’ in chthonic

i put the small ‘i’ in front as a helper since it makes it much easier to see how to pronounce a word that starts with the sound ‘kth’

251 stabby  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:56:42pm

.. meanwhile North Carolina passes a law saying that the bill of rights doesn’t apply to the states and that Christianity is the official religion of North Carolina. And from the right I don’t expect to hear any complaints.

Let me know if anyone complains about them deep sixing the constitution (until the Supreme Court puts them in their place).

I just wish wish wish there could be a hefty fine for wasting the supreme Court’s time with frivilously unconstitutional laws. Fine them 100 million $ each time.

252 dragonath  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:57:53pm

re: #251 stabby

They passed it?

253 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:58:42pm

re: #243 Political Atheist

As soon as it gets into the hands of a reckless, suicidal or murderous person.
( I do support the ten round limit and regulating who can have the most powerful guns.) I’m a huge fan of universal instant check.

I asked when the weapon itself makes the difference. How about a suitcase nuke. Would that be a weapon of import (if it existed), or just the person using it?

254 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 12:59:57pm

re: #248 Political Atheist

Guns are one important item on the list of machines and devices that kill..

Guns are designed to kill other human beings efficiently. They are also designed to kill other large animals efficiently. That is what they are for. (Except, of course, for the guns designed to kill small animals).

Trucks are not for killing large numbers of people. Neither is fertilizer and fuel oil. You need to actually put forth a lot of effort and will to make those things become highly deadly.

Gun advocates need to deal with two things, desperately:

The nature of guns is inherently dangerous, because that’s what their for. They’re to be dangerous. They are not to be safe. Attempts to render them safe render them less useful.

Most people are not extremely disciplined. Most people aren’t going to adhere to the standards of gun ownership we’d like. Even cops do dumb stuff like shooting themselves during safety demonstrations, losing their weapons, etc. But we have no standards for the safe storage of guns that I know of in most places.

Guns are designed to be lethal and dangerous. Trucks are not. Making the comparison is silly.

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:01:20pm

re: #248 Political Atheist

You know what gun controls I support. Where we differ might be what we expect to actually change if those rules pass.

And no, I don’t know what gun controls you support. If it’s only a universal background check, that doesn’t really do much to defeat the problem of people simply being careless with their guns.

256 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:04:36pm

re: #250 engineer cat

teh wikipedia do sez that you can pronounce the ‘ch’ in chthonic

i put the small ‘i’ in front as a helper since it makes it much easier to see how to pronounce a word that starts with the sound ‘kth’

I thought you were recommending actually pronouncing the ‘i’. But if you pronounce the ‘i’, then the word doesn’t start with the sound ‘kth’, and if the word does start with the sound ‘kth’, then the ‘i’ doesn’t really help you see how to pronounce it.

Bottom line: with or without the initial ‘k’ sound, ‘chthonic’ has 2 syllables, not 3.

257 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:06:12pm

re: #244 Charles Johnson

I get very impatient with technical arguments over terminology when we’re talking about classrooms full of children blown to pieces by a weapon designed for warfare.

Might have missed one, but I haven’t seen a bill submitted that would have changed the outcome at Sandy Hook. Anything that might have done so would have no chance of passing congress and the current USSC. That is being borne out as we type. We won’t fix the gun murder rate until we fix the lawmakers.

258 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:08:49pm

re: #253 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I hate to get into ad absurdum, like discussing nukes or artillery or missiles. The bigger and more powerful the weapon, the more deadly. Nobody is disputing that.

259 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:20:17pm

re: #254 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The silliness of the comparison is directly proportionate to the mayhem when abused. The people at Oklahoma city are no less dead. More numerous than a gun attack. To me obsessing on what the designer had in mind at manufacture serves propaganda and blog views more than anything else.

So many guns are designed for hunting or target sport. If you saw the video I posted above-Did that look like a human killing machine to you?

Again, I support very strong regulations. I do not support burdening the millions of guns and gun owners with assumptions of violence or criminal intent. In some places in the United States hunting for game is a meat on the table necessity. I don’t care what those people choose to hunt with. Caliber, color, configuration. Meh.

I do care to keep the least and most powerful guns away from the reckless, the suicidal and the murderous human being.

260 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:26:26pm

re: #259 Political Atheist

The silliness of the comparison is directly proportionate to the mayhem when abused. The people at Oklahoma city are no less dead.

This actually makes me angry, the attempt to continue this comparison.

Guns aren’t ‘abused’ when they’re used to shoot people. They’re being used for their intended purpose. It is not a misuse of a gun to shoot someone. That is its form and function.

A bomb is also used to kill people. Once you actually have ampho and fuel oil together, yes, you have a bomb. But the truck is not the bomb, the fertilizer is not the bomb, the fuel oil is not the bomb.

So many guns are designed for hunting or target sport. If you saw the video I posted above-Did that look like a human killing machine to you?

Yes, it looks like it could easily kill a human. Do you think it can’t for some reason? I’m not sure how you think ‘hunting’ means that a gun isn’t designed for killing.

To me obsessing on what the designer had in mind at manufacture serves propaganda and blog views more than anything else.

Obsessing? T his is so fucking bizarre. Guns are weapons. That is what they fucking are. They are not something else. They can be used as other things, just as I can take a sword and dance around with it and get exercise, but the purpose of the damn sword is still to kill people. That is the goddamn purpose. It is not obsessing over it to state this accurately, and it is so fucking weird to have you trying to avoid the very, very simple fact:

Guns are weapons.

Again, I support very strong regulations.

What are they?

I do care to keep the least and most powerful guns away from the reckless, the suicidal and the murderous human being.

Any human being, on any day, is capable of becoming suicidal, reckless, and murderous. Or their family member might. We don’t and won’t ever have good enough insight into the mental states of people to base any sort of gun policy off of this.

261 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:36:01pm

re: #260 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

We have been around a couple times on this already. I see no point in continuing when you are angry over a simple disagreement. An example-I mean seriously, it won’t take much searching to see what I have posted again and again on what gun regulations I do support. Maybe you recall my support for most of the California laws?

Let’s chat when you are not angry.

262 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 1:43:35pm

re: #261 Political Atheist

We have been around a couple times on this already. I see no point in continuing when you are angry over a simple disagreement.

You tend to use any excuse whatseover to end the conversation whenever we have it.

An example-I mean seriously, it won’t take much searching to see what I have posted again and again on what gun regulations I do support. Maybe you recall my support for most of the California laws?

I don’t see how it harms you in any way to list them. Maybe, since this is likely to come up again, favorite a comment where you list them so you can direct them. If you ask me what I support, I can answer you.

Let’s chat when you are not angry.

Sure. Last time I didn’t get angry and you decided to stop talking to me anyway. This time it’s because I’m angry. Let’s see what your excuse to cut and run from the conversation will be next time. It’s fun!

263 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 2:48:14pm

re: #262 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

You tend to use any excuse whatseover to end the conversation whenever we have it.

Sure. Last time I didn’t get angry and you decided to stop talking to me anyway. This time it’s because I’m angry.

I don’t cut and run. I do sometimes see where we have both made our points, may or may not have changed each others minds, and choose to move on or get back to work. This time we have each made our points, I see where you disagree. I’m sorry my point of view makes you angry.
Some links as you requested. Just from a few Pages

CCW
littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

Capacity limit
littlegreenfootballs.com

Regulations-NRA vs what I support
littlegreenfootballs.com

Strict inventory rules for gun makers, supported
littlegreenfootballs.com

Regulate a bit like pilots-Strong experience & skill=Permitted to own the more powerful machine
littlegreenfootballs.com

264 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 2:55:08pm

re: #263 Political Atheist

I don’t cut and run. I do sometimes see where we have both made our points, may or may not have changed each others minds, and choose to move on or get back to work. This time we have each made our points, I see where you disagree. I

This is not what happens. You fail to engage. You are not actually dealing with the simple fact that guns are weapons. You are simply not responding to my points.

Thank you for the list of the regulations you support. I think some of them are quite good, but they don’t address the issue that I’m talking about here: Guns are weapons. Most people don’t need them. They are a risk for most people. Why, in your opinion, should people get guns without having an actual need for a gun, when that gun is going to be a substantial risk to them?

265 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:12:32pm

re: #264 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Okay this is how I view the matter.

No matter what I might use in a fight it’s a weapon. Right at that first violent second onward. Gun, knife, brick, you name it. Weapons all. Until I need it in a fight, it’s just a gun, knife or brick. All dual use items at that point.

If you looked at the video I posted, did the gun appear to be designed for war? Or robbery? Or even police use? it should not, it’s designed to be a hunting and sport gun. Single shot, open it up like an old shotgun, reload one and try again.

When I’m opening a box with my Spyderco knife, it’s a tool. Look at it’s design and you might say weapon. Some people have. I carry it often. It’s never been used in anger or defense. It’s opened countless boxes.

That’s how I look at it. The use defines it as anything beyond gun or firearm or rifle or pistol.

266 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:16:00pm

re: #264 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Well at least I have Merriam Webster to lean on a little here.
Definition of WEAPON
1: something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy

Edit-Adding an important point.
We do not have to “need” a gun. we are allowed to want one, and use it as we, the buyer intended. Sport, hunting, personal defense if needed.

267 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:18:52pm

re: #265 Political Atheist

Okay this is how I view the matter.

No matter what I might use in a fight it’s a weapon.

But only some of the things are actually designed to be weapons. I don’t get why this is hard for you to either simply admit or comprehend. And knives are obviously far more multi-use than guns. There are no common uses to guns other than practice/target shooting and actually shooting things. There are a thousand other uses for knives.

Some knives are designed primarily as weapons. Most knives are designed primarily as tools. Some are designed as both. Some guns may be designed primarily for target shooting, but the vast, huge, overwhelming majority of guns are designed to actually shoot things, as weapons.

If you looked at the video I posted, did the gun appear to be designed for war? Or robbery? Or even police use? it should not, it’s designed to be a hunting and sport gun.

To me, it looked designed to shoot things, and yeah, that includes humans. I have no clue how you can think a gun designed for hunting wouldn’t also be good for shooting people.

That’s how I look at it. The use defines it as anything beyond gun or firearm or rifle or pistol.

Well, aside from the limited number of people who buy guns just to shoot, many people buy guns for ‘self-defense’, which clearly is treating them as weapons. So even if I conceded the ‘use’ thing, to most gun owners, guns are a weapon.

And for most people, they are a weapons they will never need, a weapon that is a risk to them, their loved ones, and others.

268 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:20:07pm

re: #266 Political Atheist

We do not have to “need” a gun. we are allowed to want one, and use it as we, the buyer intended. Sport, hunting, personal defense if needed.

This is the thing. If you don’t need a gun, a gun is a risky, dangerous fucking thing to have around. This is the cultural thing that I don’t get: you, as a responsible gun owner, should be out there dissuading people from owning guns if they don’t need them, but instead, you seem to be encouraging people to get guns even if they don’t actually need them.

I don’t fucking get it.

269 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:24:30pm

re: #121 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

“I don’t have a whole lot of proof of this, but I do know she hated her color, hated being white.”

A pastor accepting something as accurate without proof. I’m not surprised.

It’s in the Bible //

270 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:40:02pm

re: #267 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

But only some of the things are actually designed to be weapons. I don’t get why this is hard for you to either simply admit or comprehend. .

This is not a comprehension or admission issue. It’s a moment when I straight out disagree with your point as put. I fully admit guns are weapons when used in terms of actual violence.

I just refuse to agree with you that a gun is a defacto 24/7 weapon. What I object to is the deliberate characterization of a gun built and bought for use in sport as a weapon. That is just an effort to shade the argument with violence in broad hypothetical terms when really it’s just accurate in terms of actual violence. That’s IMHO.

Again, we are not required to need a gun. We are allowed to want it and use it within the law. That might be the single thing you should try to accept.

Now my reading tells me the odds of a mishap in my home is about one in a million, maybe twice that allowing for the numbers of less trained and violent people out there. I have no problem with my gun ownership and those numbers. Neither does my wife. This is our choice. You would choose otherwise. Well fine, good for both of us. You choose for you and we chose for ourselves. There is no irresponsible person here. We understand what we have.

271 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:44:06pm

re: #270 Political Atheist

This is not a comprehension or admission issue. It’s a moment when I straight out disagree with your point as put. I fully admit guns are weapons when used in terms of actual violence.

It is simply denying reality to deny that guns are weapons. I’m sorry. This is beyond disagreement. Guns are weapons. Even if you buy it for sport, just as if I buy a katana that I only am going to use to practice swordplay, it is still a weapon.

Again, we are not required to need a gun. We are allowed to want it and use it within the law. That might be the single thing you should try to accept.

I completely accept that is currently the law. I’m not sure why you think I don’t.

What I am asking you is to deal with the fact that we have shitloads of people who have no business owning a gun, owning guns.

There is no irresponsible person here. We understand what we have.

But there are lots and lots and lots and lots of irresponsible people with guns. That’s who I’m asking you to think about, and who you’re steadfastly refusing to think about.

272 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 3:56:17pm

re: #271 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

But there are lots and lots and lots and lots of irresponsible people with guns. That’s who I’m asking you to think about, and who you’re steadfastly refusing to think about.

Wait a minute, if I were not thinking about those people as you say, why the heck would I be on record supporting the regulations as I do?

273 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 4:02:46pm

re: #271 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It is simply denying reality to deny that guns are weapons. I’m sorry. This is beyond disagreement.

You are a smart guy that argues well. yet I submit you fall short on this point. How we use the term is to a significant degree, variable. even the dictionaries vary. So, we have a term that is not as cut and dried as you say. You don’t like the gun situation in this country, and that colors your view. I get it. I just saw all the same stuff and came from a different life to a different conclusion. It’s a weapon each and every moment it’s in a violent moment.

Have I engaged with you and continued the conversation to a sensible place to stop for now and move on without giving you short shrift?

274 chadu  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 4:17:16pm

I declare Lizarddome!

275 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 4:17:50pm

re: #272 Political Atheist

Wait a minute, if I were not thinking about those people as you say, why the heck would I be on record supporting the regulations as I do?

None of those regulations would really cut into the irresponsible people thing, though, and I don’t know why you think it would.

What I am getting at isn’t about laws or regulations at all. it is about culture. We are not going to make progress on guns in this country until reasonable gun owners can admit that guns are weapons, and that unless you need them, it is simply a risk to have them in your house.

Instead, I generally find gun-owners advocating gun ownership.

re: #273 Political Atheist

You don’t like the gun situation in this country, and that colors your view. I get it.

Don’t try to play psychologist. I don’t do it to you, don’t do it to me.

I just saw all the same stuff and came from a different life to a different conclusion. It’s a weapon each and every moment it’s in a violent moment.

Have I engaged with you and continued the conversation to a sensible place to stop for now and move on without giving you short shrift?

To me, your denial that guns are weapons is just semantic silliness. Guns are weapons. They were conceived as weapons, designed as weapons, and even a tame little .22 target pistol is a perfectly good weapon for an assassin, because guns aren’t just weapons, they’re great weapons. One of the truly iconic weapons of history.

The average Marine is never actually going to have to fire his weapon at an enemy. He goddamn knows it’s a weapon, every moment, whether he’s cleaning his weapon, practicing with his weapon, or actively shooting someone. It remains a weapon.

Guns are weapons. It is bizarre to me we’ve reached the point where you’re actually saying that’s not a true statement.

276 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 4:31:53pm
What I am getting at isn’t about laws or regulations at all. it is about culture. We are not going to make progress on guns in this country until reasonable gun owners can admit that guns are weapons, and that unless you need them, it is simply a risk to have them in your house.

See they do not have to be thought of as weapons to understand the risk. The far better indication is not within a word of variable meaning, but with the rate of violence and mishap. Those are the far better teachers to us all including gun owners. You look at the risk and call it high, we look at it and find it higher than we would like but not so high as to make gun ownership irresponsible on it’s face. That risk is scaled by us as individuals.

Semantic silliness? Tell it to Merriam Webster, let me know if they agree. I don’t. Nor do I call your point silly.

I apologize for saying your gun views shape your chosen use of the term weapon. AFAIK, the broadening of the term in the media is part of the argument against guns, not a part of the facts. Me, I’ll stick with the context of use.

It’s really time for me to go, my train won’t wait. Nor will dinner. Till next time.

277 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 4:47:56pm

re: #276 Political Atheist

See they do not have to be thought of as weapons to understand the risk. The far better indication is not within a word of variable meaning, but with the rate of violence and mishap. Those are the far better teachers to us all including gun owners. You look at the risk and call it high, we look at it and find it higher than we would like but not so high as to make gun ownership irresponsible on it’s face. That risk is scaled by us as individuals.
.

I don’t even look at it and find it high, dude. I’m not even saying that. I’m saying that since most people are never going to run into a situation where they need a gun, having one around is just going to be a risk for them. Unless they go out and plink with it, then it’s a risk with a bit of fun.

But for most of those who buy it for ‘protection’, it is mostly the opposite.

Semantic silliness? Tell it to Merriam Webster, let me know if they agree. I don’t. Nor do I call your point silly.

Guns are weapons. Dictionaries define them as such. If you want to go by dictionary definitions, that’s fine.

merriam-webster.com
merriam-webster.com
thefreedictionary.com

278 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 4, 2013 10:31:30pm

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Second only to the “clip” vs “magazine” scandal.

In my shadowrun games people have been nearly shot over this issue.


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