The Political Collapse of Bobby Jindal

Creationist governor’s right wing economic proposals not welcome
Politics • Views: 27,205

Something fascinating is taking place in Louisiana; Bobby Jindal’s fiscal agenda, which looks an awful lot like the national Republican Party’s fiscal agenda with a little extra Ayn Rand, is being overwhelmingly rejected by the public.

After months of pushing a dramatic proposal to swap the state’s income and corporate taxes in favor of higher, broader sales tax, Gov. Bobby Jindal is shelving his proposal. In a speech opening the 2013 legislative session, Jindal is telling lawmakers that he is taking his plan off the table even as he said he will not “pout” or “take his ball and go home,” instead asking lawmakers to develop and pass their own version of a plan to phase out the state’s income tax, according to a copy of the governor’s prepared remarks.

The text of the speech was released to the media prior to Jindal’s 1 p.m. address on condition that it not be published until the governor begins his speech.

The speech is a major concession that Jindal’s proposal, a complicated plan contained in a total of 11 bills, is unpopular both within and outside the Legislature. The proposal has come under increasingly heavy fire in recent weeks as business groups and advocates for the poor have assailed its effects and think tanks have questioned whether the math in the proposal adds up.

Benjy Sarlin has more on Jindal’s political collapse and what it may portend for the national GOP.

Only 27 percent of Louisiana voters supported the plan in the latest SMOR poll versus a whopping 63 percent opposed. The idea didn’t even garner majority support among Republicans.

According to SMOR pollster Bernie Pinsonat, Jindal’s true approval is likely even lower than their mid-March poll indicated.

“The decline there came from his political style, his travel out of state, his budget cuts, additional talk of more budget cuts, and of course the tax plan,” Pinsonat said. “But after the survey, there were two or three major things that happened that absolutely would have made these numbers worse.”

Opposition to his plan expanded in early April as religious leaders joined advocates for the poor in complaining the sales tax increase would hurt working families. Jindal’s staff countered that they’d make sure the cost of the tax cuts would mostly fall on businesses instead of individuals, but that concession prompted the influential Louisiana Association of Business and Industry to come out against it as well. Meanwhile, an analysis by the non-partisan Public Affairs Research Council suggested that Jindal would need to come up with hundreds of millions of dollars more in revenue to make the numbers add up at all. With both the progressive left and pro-market right united against it, Republicans in the legislature began to rebel.

“Just about everyone dislikes this plan,” Pearson Cross, a professor of political science at University of Louisiana-Lafayette, told TPM. “It’s been roundly excoriated frankly. And all of this has taken a toll on his popularity, which is at a historic low heading into the legislative session when he needs to have higher popularity than he’s ever had.”

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107 comments
1 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 12:57:45pm

Which goes to show that, when Republicans actually give voters a good whiff of their ideas, they get soundly rejected.

2 jamesfirecat  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 12:57:47pm

Like a flan in a cupboard!

3 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:00:09pm

A dramatic recreation of Jindal’s 2013 term to date:

4 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:00:48pm

It’s a shitty plan by a shitty politician.

5 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:01:31pm
Grover Norquist, the intellectual leader of the anti-tax crowd in Washington, had praised Jindal’s plan as “the boldest, most pro-growth state tax reform in U.S. history.” He noted that it was particularly significant, because with Obama positioned to veto anything resembling the House GOP’s budget for the next several years, Louisiana might be Republicans’ best chance to show off their tax ideas on the state level.

“The national media and Acela-corridor crowd continue to focus on the bickering Washington, but they can learn what real tax reform looks like by looking to Louisiana,” Norquist said

Run this ad in Louisiana 24/7 and it might go blue.

8 Bulworth  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:03:02pm

re: #6 Kragar

Yeah, this is the problem. The Wisconsin Governor hasn’t been a bowl of cherries, either.

9 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:06:04pm

re: #8 Bulworth

Yeah, this is the problem. The Wisconsin Governor hasn’t been a bowl of cherries, either.

Scotty Walker’s own approval ratings have been falling as well, so I’ve heard. Apparently buyer’s remorse is setting again as those who voted against recalling him realize that he’s done jackshit for job creation, with WI ranked at or near dead last in the nation.

10 I Am Kreniigh!  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:06:31pm

A MAN and his son were once going with their Donkey to market. As they were walking along by its side a countryman passed them and said: “You fools, what is a Donkey for but to ride upon?”

So the Man put the Boy on the Donkey and they went on their way. But soon they passed a group of men, one of whom said: “See that lazy youngster, he lets his father walk while he rides.”

So the Man ordered his Boy to get off, and got on himself. But they hadn’t gone far when they passed two women, one of whom said to the other: “Shame on that lazy lout to let his poor little son trudge along.”

Well, the Man didn’t know what to do, but at last he took his Boy up before him on the Donkey. By this time they had come to the town, and the passers-by began to jeer and point at them. The Man stopped and asked what they were scoffing at. The men said: “Aren’t you ashamed of yourself for overloading that poor Donkey of yours—you and your hulking son?”

The Man and Boy got off and tried to think what to do. They thought and they thought, till at last they cut down a pole, tied the Donkey’s feet to it, and raised the pole and the Donkey to their shoulders. They went along amid the laughter of all who met them till they came to Market Bridge, when the Donkey, getting one of his feet loose, kicked out and caused the Boy to drop his end of the pole. In the struggle the Donkey fell over the bridge, and his fore-feet being tied together he was drowned.

11 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:07:12pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

Scotty Walker’s own approval ratings have been falling as well, so I’ve heard. Apparently buyer’s remorse is setting again as those who voted against recalling him realize that he’s done jackshit for job creation, with WI ranked at or near dead last in the nation.

Would have been nice if they realized that during the recall but better late than never I suppose.

12 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:08:50pm

Is it too early to forecast a GOP thrashing in 2014?

13 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:10:55pm

re: #12 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it too early to forecast a GOP thrashing in 2014?

Yes. But I think you will see more than a few of the governors who got in via the wave defeated. Ditto 2016. The latter though depends on who the parties’ have as their standard bearer for president.

14 BongCrodny  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:11:06pm

If you ever wonder what “the elite” need with that extra money they’d pocket if such tax plans went through:

Demos.org: Election Spending 2012

A new analysis of data through Election Day from the Federal Election Commission (FEC) and other sources by U.S. PIRG and Demos shows how big outside spenders drowned out small contributions in 2012: just 61 large donors to Super PACs giving an average of $4.7 million each matched the $285.2 million in grassroots contributions from more than 1,425,500 small donors to the major party presidential candidates.

15 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:12:20pm

re: #14 BongCrodny

If you ever wonder what “the elite” need with that extra money they’d pockt if such tax plans went through:

Demos.org: Election Spending 2012

A new analysis of data through Election Day from the Federal Election Commission (FEC) and other sources by U.S. PIRG and Demos shows how big outside spenders drowned out small contributions in 2012: just 61 large donors to Super PACs giving an average of $4.7 million each matched the $285.2 million in grassroots contributions from more than 1,425,500 small donors to the major party presidential candidates.

It’s a fucking oligarchy. Fine legacy that the Roberts court has left us.

16 aagcobb  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:13:35pm

re: #12 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it too early to forecast a GOP thrashing in 2014?

Yes. Remember, young, minority and low income voters turn out at much lower rates than rich, older, white voters in midterm elections. Plus lots of GOP districts are safely gerrymandered. But because those Congressman only have to worry about being primaried from the Right, the GOP’s rebranding effort is falling flat, so ‘16 is looking pretty good for Hillary (or whoever the Nominee is).

17 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:13:56pm

re: #12 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it too early to forecast a GOP thrashing in 2014?

Yes. If anything, Greg Sargent was just laying out the other day that, in the best case scenario, the Dems will hold onto their seats in the Senate and perhaps pick up a couple in the House. Worst case scenario is exactly what the GOP wants: Expand their House majority and take back the majority in the Senate.

18 GunstarGreen  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:14:47pm

As it turns out, plans to slash and burn the domestic services that the government provides are decidedly less well-received when people realize that the cuts are actually going to impact them personally.

19 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:15:08pm

He’s not exactly going down without a fight, nor is he giving up the ghost about eliminating the income tax in Louisiana.

As I commented earlier, he’s calling on the Legislature to work on a way to get to the elimination of the income tax.

There’s a reason that states impose the kinds of taxes they do.

Broadly, it’s to generate revenue to fund government activities. Sometimes it’s to tax specific activities as a deterrence (sin taxes). Many states impose property taxes to fund education, and offset the burden with other taxes. New Jersey, for instance saw a huge property tax burden and decided to broaden the tax base by imposing an income tax and creating rebates and other incentives to reduce the tax burden on property owners as well as to increase support to poorer districts.

Jindal’s wish was to eliminate the income tax and offset the revenues by hiking the sales tax.

Sales tax by its nature is highly regressive. It’s why sales taxes generally exempt food purchases and some states don’t tax clothing - because it adversely affects the poor most (a disproportionate amount of their income goes to paying the tax as compared to someone who’s wealthy). Hiking the sales tax only adds to the disparity and Jindal’s attempted sop by creating some kind of rebate actually undermines his argument for eliminating the income tax. But he’s not going to stop trying.

Louisiana is in a position where it could increase taxes on gas/oil/minerals, but those costs would be fought by the oil/gas industry. Louisiana isn’t Alaska, where oil finds transformed the state’s wealth and revenue picture overnight. Louisiana isn’t creating a new revenue stream - it’s shifting the burdens on to those least able to afford them.

And he’s not alone with that idea. Kansas (go figure), North Carolina, and Nebraska are also looking at a possible elimination of their income taxes.

Each faces a similar problem - what to tax if you’re taking income out of the formula. That pretty much leaves sales and property taxes. Or vastly smaller governments that can’t provide the level of service that people now are accustomed to.

20 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:15:14pm

Wow.

The latest North Korean propaganda video. Just wow.

21 Bulworth  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:15:20pm

On the other hand, there are some states doing some good thing, IMO. Connecticut and Maryland have passed gun control legislation sought by their governors in the aftermath of the Newtown massacre. This follows on the heels of November’s SSM victories in several states. Add in that even some conservative governors have opted to expand Medicaid in response to the ACA. So some good with the bad and crazy.

22 aagcobb  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:15:28pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

It’s a fucking oligarchy. Fine legacy that the Roberts court has left us.

Though it was delicious observing just how little they got for all the money they spent last year. Its a hard sell to cover a pile of shit in whip cream and call it a chocolate pie.

23 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:15:34pm

I dunno. Call me overly optimistic but I think the GOP will shoot itself in the foot in at least one high profile House or Senate race like they did in 2010 and 2012. Some incumbent or establishment replacement is not going to be good enough for the purists that vote in the primaries.

24 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:17:13pm

re: #21 Bulworth

On the other hand, there are some states doing some good thing, IMO. Connecticut and Maryland have passed gun control legislation sought by their governors in the aftermath of the Newtown massacre. This follows on the heels of November’s SSM victories in several states. Add in that even some conservative governors have opted to expand Medicaid in response to the ACA. So some good with the bad and crazy.

I like Martin O’Malley of Maryland.

25 HappyWarrior  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:18:26pm

I just wish someone other than Terry McAulliffe was the Democratic candidate for governor here. I just don’t think he’s a good candidate, A, and I honestly don’t like him that much, B. Now he’s better than Ken Cuccinnelli, I don’t doubt that but I am not high on Terry M.

26 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:18:59pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Wow.

The latest North Korean propaganda video. Just wow.

[Embedded content]

I’d like to see that with subtitles, like all those Hitler “Downfall” clips.

27 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:20:06pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Wow.

The latest North Korean propaganda video. Just wow.

[Embedded content]

Nothing says military professionalism like pointing a loaded pistol at the reporter interviewing you.

28 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:20:21pm

re: #26 Vicious Babushka

I’d like to see that with subtitles, like all those Hitler “Downfall” clips.

Oh, you know that is coming.

29 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:20:42pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Nuts. The guy who’s talking has his finger on the trigger the entire time he’s waving it around. Lucky he didn’t shoot someone by accident during filming.

Shooting cutouts of a generic GI Joe and some South Korean. It might have been Lee Myung-bak, the former SK President.

Oooh.. dogs running through flaming hoops. That’s an oldie but goodie.

30 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:21:04pm

re: #19 lawhawk

Which really is a sign that Jindal has not learned his lesson, that such a plan is wildly unpopular and unworkable, but rather that he can avoid the political backlash towards himself if he pawns off the problem on the legislature. If it dies there, as it very likely will since his own plan largely died due to members of his own party saying they’d vote against it, he can just shrug his shoulders and say “We’ll take it back up after the next election.”

31 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:22:32pm

North Korean military using German Shepherds?

Nope.

Chuck Testa.

32 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:23:30pm

re: #30 Targetpractice

Which really is a sign that Jindal has not learned his lesson, that such a plan is wildly unpopular and unworkable, but rather that he can avoid the political backlash towards himself if he pawns off the problem on the legislature. If it dies there, as it very likely will since his own plan largely died due to members of his own party saying they’d vote against it, he can just shrug his shoulders and say “We’ll take it back up after the next election.”

He’s hoping they can find a way to sell the plan in a way that will make it more appealing to low income voters.

33 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:25:13pm

OK, now I’m picturing a remake of “The Doberman Gang” using German Shepherds to launch an assassination attempt against the President of South Korea

34 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:29:11pm

Too bad the small sample of just Jindal carries such a large margin of error. I’d like to see the rest of GOP ideas get flushed down the Toilet of Randian Excess.

35 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:29:53pm

re: #28 Kragar

Oh, you know that is coming.

Or maybe not, unless they can figure out a way to edit the video to show them shooting and dog-siccing on posters of people that we actually recognize.

36 Lidane  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:31:52pm

re: #2 jamesfirecat

Like a flan in a cupboard!

Except the art, the cuisine, and the architecture made the Ottomans at least somewhat interesting academically.

Bobby Jindal is nothing but a wannabe Kenneth the Page with a repugnant personality and completely backwards political views.

37 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:32:09pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Wow.

The latest North Korean propaganda video. Just wow.

[Embedded content]

Those were some poorly trained dogs, and they put something in the heads of the dummies to attract the dogs, probably ham.

38 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:33:29pm

re: #10 I Am Kreniigh!

So, basically, never listen to other people.

39 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:35:01pm

re: #37 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Those were some poorly trained dogs, and they put something in the heads of the dummies to attract the dogs, probably ham.

At least Hamas does not send dogs through the hoops of fire, they dive through themselves.

40 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:36:49pm

re: #38 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

So, basically, never listen to other people.

What?
Did you say something?

Sorry, I was busy ignoring my wife, which at my age takes all my concentration.

BTW, I think the regurgitator of the story was a donkey.

41 I Am Kreniigh!  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:37:25pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Wow.

The latest North Korean propaganda video. Just wow.

[Embedded content]

That can’t be real. Please tell me that’s a prank.

42 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:39:24pm

The new Jezebel format sucks.

43 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:40:44pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

The new Jezebel format sucks.

Not enough skin?

44 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:41:54pm

‘Billioniares Have Options’ Doesn’t Mean Miami Taxpayers Should Finance NFL Stadium Renovations

Miami voters will go to the polls on May 14 to decide if they want to hand over hundreds of millions in public money to renovate SunLife Stadium, the home of the Miami Dolphins. Approval is far from assured, and though Dolphins owner Stephen Ross has insisted that he won’t sell the team if the proposal is voted down. But today, ProFootballTalk’s Mike Florio reported that Ross may sell the team to new owners less willing to keep the Dolphins in Miami if the proposal fails, and because of that, Florio says Miami voters should get over their “philosophical concerns” about handing over tax dollars to Ross because “billionaires always have options” that may leave the city without a football team if they don’t:

Any city without a professional sports franchise is lucky.

45 Interesting Times  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:42:05pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

The new Jezebel format sucks.

It’s worse than what they had before? All the Gawker sites have the worst, most user-unfriendly and cumbersome comment threading I’ve ever seen.

46 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:44:49pm

re: #44 Kragar

‘Billioniares Have Options’ Doesn’t Mean Miami Taxpayers Should Finance NFL Stadium Renovations

Any city without a professional sports franchise is lucky.

Professional sports teams these days are little more than a bragging right of major cities, a very expensive and otherwise utterly useless one.

47 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:45:31pm

re: #45 Interesting Times

It’s worse than what they had before? All the Gawker sites have the worst, most user-unfriendly and cumbersome comment threading I’ve ever seen.

I don’t usually visit Gawker sites and now I know the reason why. They just suck out loud.

48 Destro  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:46:43pm

Regarding the “What’s the matter with Kansas” thesis that those voting Republicans were voting for a political ideology against their own self interests - I think for a long time as the economy did well the people voting against their own self interest were easily fooled by GOP rhetoric but after the collapse of the Bush doctrine which made military sword rattling unpopular to Americans and the economic collapse of financial institutions that the GOP coddled and the economic hardships many Americans went through, I wonder if this era for the GOP is indeed over.

Republicans who tend to skew older and white are out of jobs, found themselves in need of a safety net and maybe they can’t admit they were wrong but the will vote to make sure their benefits are not taken away to help the rich people who had promised to give them good paying jobs if they had lower taxes and regulations and failed to deliver said pay raises and jobs after the Republicans did carry out that agenda under Bush.

Rank and file Republicans must some how sense that the GOP economic policy no longer applies to them and if they are honest about how the GOP fooled them, they may never trust the GOP again.

So pretty much the only reason someone is a Republican now who is not rich is for non economic social conservative and racial identity reasons and at the end of the day that does not carry over well when the racist-homophobes need unemployment insurance more than they need to keep gays from getting married.

49 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:47:04pm

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

I don’t usually visit Gawker sites and now I know the reason why. They just suck out loud.

You prefer they suck quietly?

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:47:14pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

Professional sports teams these days are little more than a bragging right of major cities, a very expensive and otherwise utterly useless one.

Professional teams are commercial enterprises. Those that believe in the Free Market should also support the notion of leaving to private investors to finance them.

51 dragonath  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:47:41pm

re: #44 Kragar

Miami, proud home of the 1-5 Marlins

52 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:47:44pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

Professional sports teams these days are little more than a bragging right of major cities, a very expensive and otherwise utterly useless one.

Any city who will take the Padres and Charges out of San Diego will get a fruit basket from me.

53 Destro  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:48:04pm

re: #44 Kragar

‘Billioniares Have Options’ Doesn’t Mean Miami Taxpayers Should Finance NFL Stadium Renovations

Any city without a professional sports franchise is lucky.

Would the NFL allow public ownership of a team?

54 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:48:53pm

re: #52 Kragar

Any city who will take the Padres and Charges out of San Diego will get a fruit basket from me.

I’m infinitely thankful that VA Beach hasn’t gotten it into its damned fool head that, atop all of the other bad decisions its made, that it needs a professional sports team or two.

55 recusancy  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:49:13pm

re: #53 Destro

Would the NFL allow public ownership of a team?

The Packers are publicly owned.

56 erik_t  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:49:13pm

re: #53 Destro

Would the NFL allow public ownership of a team?

The Packers would long ago have been forced into private ownership if the NFL didn’t know it’d be an incredible PR disaster. There will never be another.

57 dragonath  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:50:05pm

Actually, I think the citizens of Cincinnati voted for a tax increase to keep the Bengals in town over some public transportation thingy.

Let that sink in

the Bengals

58 Destro  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:50:13pm

re: #55 recusancy

re: #56 erik_t

So Packers was a one off?

59 wrenchwench  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:50:19pm

I think NM has a one term governor.

More:

60 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:50:42pm

re: #57 dragonath

Let that sink in

Cincinnati

61 erik_t  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:52:04pm

re: #58 Destro

re: #56 erik_t

So Packers was a one off?

I’m not sure if they were a one-off, but it’s a relic of a bygone age, when the NFL was more like a bunch of grumpy old college players who longed for days gone by, rather than a multi-gorillion-dollar business. There might have been others, but not for at least the last fifty years.

62 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:52:04pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

I think NM has a one term governor.

How is that rebranding working out for you?

63 Destro  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:52:59pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

Wow, denying services to ex-soldiers because they are gay? Republicans are douche nozzles. PS: How the fuck would they check for gayness?

64 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:53:02pm

The NFL (and every other pro-sports league) is a non-profit organization.

Let that sink in for a minute.

65 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:53:42pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

I think NM has a one term governor.

Remember when she was tossed around as a possible VP pick?

66 Destro  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:54:07pm

re: #61 erik_t

I’m not sure if they were a one-off, but it’s a relic of a bygone age, when the NFL was more like a bunch of grumpy old college players who longed for days gone by, rather than a multi-gorillion-dollar business. There might have been others, but not for at least the last fifty years.

The NFL should have been broken up as a monopoly - the Supreme Court decision to protect these sports monopolies has outlived its usefulness.

67 dragonath  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:54:34pm

re: #60 Sol Berdinowitz

When asked if she would be buried in Cincinnati, Mrs. Longworth [Roosevelt] said that to do so “would be a fate worse than death itself.”

68 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 1:55:32pm

re: #44 Kragar

‘Billioniares Have Options’ Doesn’t Mean Miami Taxpayers Should Finance NFL Stadium Renovations

Any city without a professional sports franchise is lucky.

Frankly I think it should be illegal to use tax revenue to finance anything for a privately owned sports franchise. Preferably a federal law banning it.

69 Targetpractice  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:01:34pm

re: #68 William Barnett-Lewis

Frankly I think it should be illegal to use tax revenue to finance anything for a privately owned sports franchise. Preferably a federal law banning it.

Hell, in this situation, I was pretty sure there were laws against extortion, which is what this amounts to.

70 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:02:22pm

re: #63 Destro

Wow, denying services to ex-soldiers because they are gay? Republicans are douche nozzles. PS: How the fuck would they check for gayness?

I think it refers to benefits for gay partners and spouses

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:03:42pm

re: #68 William Barnett-Lewis

Frankly I think it should be illegal to use tax revenue to finance anything for a privately owned sports franchise. Preferably a federal law banning it.

Governments regularly use tax breaks and benefits to attract industries, the logic being that the increased tax revenues would balance it out.

And sports teams are an easy sell, as opposed to, say, a solar energy company…

72 I Am Kreniigh!  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:04:18pm

re: #40 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

BTW, I think the regurgitator of the story was a donkey.

It was not my finest moment. Coulda been pithier.

That said, something something donkey something Democrat. I dunno, having an off day.

73 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:05:17pm

re: #71 Sol Berdinowitz

Governments regularly use tax breaks and benefits to attract industries, the logic being that the increased tax revenues would balance it out.

And sports teams are an easy sell, as opposed to, say, a solar energy company…

Except study after study say that sports franchises never bring in the business they say they will and end up costing the local economy in the long run, especially if the town ends up hosting a major event.

74 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:05:31pm

Twitter has been really lame all day. The quality of Derp has sadly deteriorated.

75 danarchy  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:06:18pm

re: #68 William Barnett-Lewis

Frankly I think it should be illegal to use tax revenue to finance anything for a privately owned sports franchise. Preferably a federal law banning it.

How is it any different than say massachusetts spending a 100 million dollars a year to court biotech firms? Shouldn’t the state and the people of the state be able to decide if having that business there is worth it?

76 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:07:14pm

Michigan Governor Won’t Condemn Committeeman’s Anti-Gay Screed

A growing number of young party leaders have called on Dave Agema, a former state representative, to resign, particularly after it was revealed that several of his “statistics” were attributed to “a non-practicing chiropractor with ties to white supremacist and anti-Semitic groups.” Asked about the matter during a conference call on Monday, Snyder didn’t pressure on Agema to step down, but instead issued a blanket call for more tolerance:

“I’m not going to get in the middle of all that,” the first-term Republican said. “My view is any kind of discrimination is wrong. I’ve been a strong advocate of anti-bullying legislation, and I think it’s appropriate that we stand up for all people.”

77 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:09:36pm

re: #63 Destro

Wow, denying services to ex-soldiers because they are gay? Republicans are douche nozzles. PS: How the fuck would they check for gayness?

The soldiers wear gay genes?

78 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:09:40pm

re: #75 danarchy

How is it any different than say massachusetts spending a 100 million dollars a year to court biotech firms? Shouldn’t the state and the people of the state be able to decide if having that business there is worth it?

Any location dumb enough to waste money on sports should be allowed to, but to use taxpayer money without letting the public have a say or lying about the economic benefits should be illegal. Its a scam and the taxpayers are left holding the bill.

79 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:10:04pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

Remember when she was tossed around as a possible VP pick?

Obviously she wasn’t tossed quite far enough.

80 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:10:12pm

re: #75 danarchy

How is it any different than say massachusetts spending a 100 million dollars a year to court biotech firms? Shouldn’t the state and the people of the state be able to decide if having that business there is worth it?

I oppose those forms of corporate welfare as well, though at least that might possibly benefit the local economy. The numbers are pretty bad about sports helping anything but the owners. Baseball stadiums are an especially bad value for their cities.

Let the owners live withing their means rather than fattening their wallets at the public expense.

81 engineer cat  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:10:37pm

Jindal’s Call For GOP Not To Be ‘Stupid Party’ Meets With Approval

governor’s proposal to make it ‘incredibly stupid party’ not as well recieved

82 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:12:04pm

re: #68 William Barnett-Lewis

Frankly I think it should be illegal to use tax revenue to finance anything for a privately owned sports franchise. Preferably a federal law banning it.

Up here in central Canuckistan, our community owned CFL team is getting a new stadium financed by the city and the province.

It will be nice to go to a game and not have to piss into a trough after too many beer.

83 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:13:05pm

re: #72 I Am Kreniigh!

It was not my finest moment. Coulda been pithier.

That said, something something donkey something Democrat. I dunno, having an off day.

Being a donkey may just be better than being an ass.

84 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:13:29pm

“You can have schools, roads you can drive on, law enforcement and other city programs or you can have a stadium so billionaires can make money off of grown men playing a children’s game, but you can’t have both!”

Decisions, decisions.

85 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:13:56pm

re: #74 Vicious Babushka

Twitter has been really lame all day. The quality of Derp has sadly deteriorated.

Derp is taking a holiday? Or is it just repeating itself, like cabbage?

86 Lidane  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:14:13pm

re: #58 Destro

So Packers was a one off?

Yes. The Packers are a one-off. Their public ownership was grandfathered into the NFL rules back in the 1980’s.

87 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:16:02pm

re: #86 Lidane

Yes. The Packers are a one-off. Their public ownership was grandfathered into the NFL rules back in the 1980’s.

Our team, the Roughriders, is owned by the public, and is the most financially secure of the 8-9 teams.

88 engineer cat  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:16:09pm

re: #72 I Am Kreniigh!

It was not my finest moment. Coulda been pithier.

don’t pith me off

89 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:18:10pm

re: #73 Kragar

Except study after study say that sports franchises never bring in the business they say they will and end up costing the local economy in the long run, especially if the town ends up hosting a major event.

That has nothing to do with it…sports are just an easy sell, they have an appeal that goes beyond rational economic sense.

90 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:18:43pm

re: #74 Vicious Babushka

Twitter has been really lame all day. The quality of Derp has sadly deteriorated.

Thank you for sparing us the details. Metatwitter is about all we need right now.

91 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:21:05pm

re: #89 Sol Berdinowitz

That has nothing to do with it…sports are just an easy sell, they have an appeal that goes beyond rational economic sense.

Except they are being marketed to city’s as a way to boost the local economies when all the evidence says they do nothing of the sort.

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:21:21pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

Remember when she was tossed around as a possible VP pick?

GOP has been flailing about for ages, trying to find a female/minority candidate they can put up in order to show how open and inclusive the GOP is, except that most who fit the gender/ethnicity bill are so incompetent, corrupt or boneheaded that they all but disqualify themselves for national office.

93 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:23:09pm

Is derp measured logarithmicly, or linearly?

94 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:24:49pm

re: #91 Kragar

Except they are being marketed to city’s as a way to boost the local economies when all the evidence says they do nothing of the sort.

As I said, not all our economic decisions are rational ones. Sports has an appeal to the masses that goes beyond the economic benefits.

I benefitted from the Arizona State University games, I used to rent out the parking spaces at our apartment building during games.

Otherwise I had no use for them whatever, never attended a single game.

95 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:25:10pm

re: #91 Kragar

Except they are being marketed to city’s as a way to boost the local economies when all the evidence says they do nothing of the sort.

I’ve heard of, but not read, studies that show a drain on the economy from sports teams.

96 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:26:17pm

re: #88 engineer cat

don’t pith me off

That thounds like thong lyrics.

97 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:31:43pm

re: #95 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I’ve heard of, but not read, studies that show a drain on the economy from sports teams.

SUPER BOWL OR SUPER (HYPER)BOLE? ASSESSING THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF AMERICA’S PREMIER SPORTS EVENT

Civic boosters generally have estimated the Super Bowl to have an impact of $300 to $400 million on a host city’s economy. The National Football League (NFL) has used the promise of an economic windfall to convince skeptical cities that investments in new stadiums for their teams in exchange for the right to host the event makes economic sense. In fact the recent average public contribution for a new or renovated NFL stadium, $209 million, is less than the size of the economic impact estimates. The purpose of this paper was to evaluate booster claims. Statistical analysis reveals that, on average, the Super Bowl could not have contributed by any reasonable standard of statistical significance, more than $300 million to host economies. Indeed, the evidence indicates that at best the Super Bowl contributes approximately one-quarter of what the NFL promises.


An Economic Slam Dunk or March Madness? Assessing the Economic
Impact of the NCAA Basketball Tournament

The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) basketball tournament qualifies as a sports mega-event, and cities across the United States compete vigorously with one another to host what is, by most measures, the premier intercollegiate sporting event in the United States.
The promise of substantial economic impact has convinced cities to “invest” substantial sums of money to meet the demands of the NCAA. Boosters claim that the “Final Four” typically induces an influx of approximately 50,000 visitors as well as exposure to millions of television viewers. Does this fan and viewer interest translate into elevated levels of economic activity for the host city?

Our analysis of Men’s NCAA tournaments since 1970 and Women’s NCAA tournaments since 1982 indicates that the economic impact for host cities for the year the event is hosted is on average small and negative for the NCAA Men’s Final Four and small and positive for the Women’s FF. The economic impact, particularly for the men’s tournament, appears to fall short of booster claims of a financial windfall. Furthermore, the economic impact does not correlate with either the size of the facility or the size of
the city.. The sum of the evidence indicates that cities ought to exercise restraint in undertaking public spending to host the NCAA Final Four.

98 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:35:15pm

If You Build It, They Might Not Come: The Risky Economics of Sports Stadiums

“Take whatever number the sports promoter says and move the decimal one place to the left. Divide it by ten. That’s a pretty good estimate of the actual economic impact.”

To put the deal in perspective, Glendale’s budget gap for 2012 is about $35 million. As the city voted to give a future Coyotes owner hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars, it laid off 49 public workers, and even considered putting its city hall and police station up as collateral to obtain a loan, according to the Arizona Republic. (The latter plan was ultimately scrapped.)

Overall, Glendale is not only on the hook for $15 million per year over two decades to a potential Coyotes owner, but also a $12 million annual debt payment for construction of its arena. In return, according to the Republic, the city receives a measly “$2.2 million in annual rent payments, ticket surcharges, sales taxes and other fees.” Even if the Coyotes were to dominate the league like no other in recent memory and return to the Stanley Cup Finals year after year, the city would still lose $9 million annually.

This is an altogether too common problem in professional sports. Across the country, franchises are able to extract taxpayer funding to build and maintain private facilities, promising huge returns for the public in the form of economic development.

99 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:35:29pm

Home away from home.

100 Lidane  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:36:57pm

re: #97 Kragar


An Economic Slam Dunk or March Madness? Assessing the Economic
Impact of the NCAA Basketball Tournament

Related:

101 Kragar  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:37:45pm

re: #99 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Home away from home.

[Embedded content]

Now I want to go home and work on my 40k stuff.

102 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:40:04pm

re: #101 Kragar

Now I want to go home and work on my 40k stuff.

Strange thing, I had a weird dream about miniature trains Saturday night.

Spooky…

103 engineer cat  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 2:54:46pm

re: #93 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Is derp measured logarithmicly, or linearly?

derp has a combinatoric effect

104 Jolo5309  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 3:12:51pm

re: #87 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Our team, the Roughriders, is owned by the public, and is the most financially secure of the 8-9 teams.

Although they were holding telethons and ticketathons back in the 90s to keep it viable. Now the Riders are about half of all CFL merchandise sold.

105 Ming  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 3:37:19pm

Jindal’s financial proposals for Louisiana weren’t really for Louisiana. They were for him. I believe they were only trial balloons to give him more name recognition for his 2016 presidential campaign. I’m glad this particular initiative didn’t go over well. But I’m afraid that Jindal will be back with Trial Balloon 2.0.

106 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 5:58:49pm

re: #59 wrenchwench

I think NM has a one term governor.

Allow me to say this to Gov. Martinez, “You, lady, are a ****.”

107 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Apr 8, 2013 7:06:13pm
Only 27 percent of Louisiana voters supported the plan in the latest SMOR poll versus a whopping 63 percent opposed. The idea didn’t even garner majority support among Republicans.

There’s that damn number again.


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