The Frame Game

Words, meanings, and the tactics to win the argument by choosing the right words.
Politics • Views: 27,598

Ever go to the movies and be absolutely spellbound by the words rolling from the mouth of your favorite actor? Ever wonder how those words would sound when spoken by a different actor, or if a different choice of words could convey a completely different meaning?

With DVDs and Blu Ray discs, you can see outtakes and deleted scenes that didn’t make the cut, including ad-libs and alternative versions to scenes that we’ve come to view as classic.

Politics and negotiating deals play the same games with words. Hot button issues are hot buttons precisely because of word choice. Choose the words carefully and they convey a completely different meaning.

Take abortion for example. The opposing sides have self-selected identifiers of pro-life and pro-choice. Those same positions can also be described as anti-choice and pro-abortion (or pro-death) by their opponents. Proponents for both sides have picked the terms most favorable to them, while using the terms most likely to harm in describing the other side. That adds to the emotional impact.

Republican legislatures around the country are busying themselves with all manner of additional restrictions and curbs on the rights of women to obtain abortion, but the Republicans have framed this in terms of rights of the unborn child (doing it for the “child” is one of the central tenets of politics and negotiating - appeal to innocence and youth). Yet, those same laws undermine the rights of women to control their own bodies - and give the rights of the fetus precedence over those of the pregnant woman. Yet, these same Republicans are quick to claim that they are the party of small government - a completely contradictory statement at odds with their policy choices to get a government small enough to fit inside a woman’s reproductive system.

But it isn’t only about abortion and reproductive rights where framing the argument comes into play. It’s also in the discussion of the federal and state budgets, sequestration, and the laundry list of social programs.

Republicans have repeatedly managed to frame the argument to their benefit. And that affects negotiating positions too.

The President is submitting his own budget plan, and it’s a textbook example of negotiating against himself. He’s done this in the past, and he’s about to go down the same road. It’s exactly what I’ve been saying for some time, and it’s something fellow Democrats have been complaining about - both in private and behind closed doors.

The new budget doesn’t include a stimulus package that is seen as a way to improve the unemployment situation and spur further investment in infrastructure. It’s something the President and other Democrats have been calling for over the past couple of years. Yet when it comes time to present a budget to Republicans, he’s self-selected to not include it in the budget package. Moreover, he’s adopted a chained CPI rate to adjust Social Security and other benefits in a move that is expected to save billions of dollars over the life of those programs, mostly by reducing the annual inflation adjustments. That’s a sop to a couple of Senate Republicans in the hopes of getting their approval, even though the House Republicans wont go for it.

Less than a week after job-creation figures fell short of expectations and underscored the U.S. economy’s fragility, President Barack Obama will send Congress a budget that doesn’t include the stimulus his allies say is needed and instead embraces cuts in an appeal to Republicans.

“This is not our ideal budget,” Gene Sperling, director of the White House’s National Economic Council, told Bloomberg Television. “This does reflect a compromise offer. There’s measures in here we would prefer not to take.”

Obama’s budget for fiscal 2014, set for release April 10, will propose reducing Social Security recipients’ annual cost- of-living adjustments by changing the inflation calculation, according to an outline released last week. The Medicare insurance program for the elderly would be cut by reducing payments to health-care providers and drug companies and imposing more costs on high-income beneficiaries.

The President isn’t going to get this budget adopted by GOPers because they’ll use this as a floor to demand still more concessions from the Democrats, while the stimulus that the Democrats and the President had urged never sees the light of day.

It’s a given that the President and Democrats wouldn’t have gotten a stimulus approval in any event, but by not even putting it on the table, they’ve eliminated it without any corresponding concessions from the Republicans. Now, the Republicans get an edge in demanding more concessions on items that the Democrats have maintained without having to bargain for something in return.

The choice not to include these proposals means that the Democrats are adopting a position that favors the GOP over the long run.

We saw this with the tax debate too at the end of 2012 and culminating in the 2012 Tax Act (enacted in January 2013).

Democrats essentially conceded the tax rate scheme enacted in 2001 (and amended in 2003 and extended in 2009) to Republicans. It was only after the rates lapsed to their pre-2001 levels did Democrats succeed in keeping the top tax bracket back to the pre-2001 tax rates, but doing so as the argument was framed by the Republicans. At the same time, Republicans managed to spin the end of the payroll tax holiday as a massive tax hike perpetrated by Democrats and the President, even though the payroll tax holiday enacted by Congress separately was meant only to be a limited time event and the revenues raised by the payroll tax fund Social Security and Medicare; the reduction actually hurt the long term solvency of those programs and restoring the payroll tax helps reduce the imbalance.

Democrats did not succeed in altering the payroll tax cap, which imposes the tax on the first $113,700 in 2013. Amounts over that level are not subject to the 6.2% tax. Raising that cap would allow an overall reduction in the rate to everyone else, or increase the benefits. Someone making $50,000 has to pay $3,100 in payroll tax. The person making $100,000 pays $6,200 in payroll tax. However, The millionaire gets taxed only up to $113,700.00 (which is $7,049.40) meaning the balance is payroll tax free. It means that the percentage of income that goes to pay the payroll tax declines for every dollar earned over $113,700. Raising the cap would have reduced the overall burden on everyone, broadening the base and reducing the tax burden.

But Democrats conceded this front to the GOP and Democrats took the hit politically - all because of the way the issue was framed. And Democrats are still losing ground in Congress because Republicans are refusing to budge on taxes because they say that they’ve already given ground once - namely in allowing the tax rate on the rich to rise beyond the 35% that was in effect after the 2001 law was enacted.

That’s exactly happened, despite the argument that the President’s budget was intended to peel off some moderate Republicans in the Senate. It ignores that while the Senate might be predisposed to considering bipartisanship and working through some form of negotiated deal, the House GOP has taken the extremism to new levels and refuses to negotiate in good faith. House Republicans refer back to the 2012 Budget Control Act deal where they allowed taxes to rise on the top tax bracket as all the tax and revenue measures they needed to do and that any further deals are off-limits.

Then, take a look at the immigration debate. The Senate Gang of Eight is currently trying to hash out an immigration deal that would pass muster in the Senate, but faces an uncertain future in the House, where the far more radicalized Republican caucus is unwilling to negotiate in good faith. And it now turns out that Democrats may be getting played by Senate Republicans who are dragging out the matter in the hopes of watching it die before it even gets to the floor in the Senate.

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109 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:15:24pm

So much for Rubio being a rational voice on immigration (re- your point about the Senate Republicans in the Gang of 8 dragging out the immigration deal). Anyhow good work as always.

2 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:18:39pm

This seems more like an electioneering move than anything else. The GOP rejecting even reasonable compromise. Maybe.

But it kind of works against itself. I’m a lot less motivated to do GOTV stuff and all that when the chained API is put up there. I still will, but… yeah.

3 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:24:31pm

I’d almost believe there was something to the suggestions that Obama putting forward such a budget is intended to make the GOP look bad for not wishing the compromise…except he’s tried this move again and again without any success on that front. The GOP’s popularity has cratered, but it’s done nothing to make them budge. If anything, they have no choice in the House, because their gerrymandering has only created hundreds of locked wards across the country where any semblance of moderation can cost one their seat to an even crazier TPer.

Thing about it is that, in the long run, the GOP’s going to work hard to portray Obama’s budget as the “extreme” against which they’re negotiating, in order to reach a “compromise.” So yes, they’re going to make greater demands, without any real chance of new revenues being put on offer.

4 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:28:07pm

I thought voters elected politicians to get things done?

Man, am I naive.

5 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:30:37pm

re: #4 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I thought voters elected politicians to get things done?

Man, am I naive.

Feels like we’re electing more and more politicians whose whole existence seems to be on opposing everything from the president or the president’s party or proposing really nutty things.

6 Christopher's Bitchins  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:31:19pm

Immigration reform isn’t happening. Gun law reform isn’t happening. Budget compromise isn’t happening. All this talk about the GOP hitting rock bottom after the presidential election is off the mark. They are not even close to rock bottom, it’s going to get even nastier as Obama’s 2nd term continues. The GOP now has seats they will never lose no matter what, why compromise?

7 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:39:25pm

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

8 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:40:26pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

Cool! An LGF bobble-head doll!

9 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:41:47pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

I remember before the Segway came out all the experts were saying it was going to change the world, how cities were built, etc. etc. Even some big names like Jeff Bezos bought into the hype.

10 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:42:21pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

I will greet it with at least the excitement and enthusiasm I greeted the Segway with.

(I misspelled that as segeway and Chrome offered ‘sewage’ as an autocorrect)

11 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:42:29pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

A kill-file!

12 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:42:30pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

Oooo… a solar-powered variable disenvoweler for low karma posts!
;)

13 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:42:48pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

We’re finally launching our bid for world conquest? Awesome!

//

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:43:00pm

I’m taking a lot longer to play Bioshock Infinite than most games because I keep wanting to explore all the amazing stuff. But I finally managed to get past the dreaded Fireman. That muh was crazy.

15 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:43:24pm

re: #9 Iwouldprefernotto

I remember before the Segway came out all the experts were saying it was going to change the world, how cities were built, etc. etc. Even some big names like Jeff Bezos bought into the hype.

Adam uses one on The Myth Busters.

His reality has obviously been changed.

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:43:42pm

No, that’s not the cool new thing. ;)

17 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:47:07pm

re: #11 Vicious Babushka

A kill-file!

In the immortal words of Morty - “I keel you!”

19 Christopher's Bitchins  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 5:57:58pm

re: #9 Iwouldprefernotto

Hey! Segway created a whole new sports market for doosh nuggets with too much money, Segway Polo!

20 Amory Blaine  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:01:34pm

He he I just passed the Founders Library.

21 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:03:02pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

No, that’s not the cool new thing. ;)

Segways?

22 Lidane  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:05:17pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

We have a very cool new thing to announce very soon. Something we’ve needed for a long time. Something many have requested.

Almost ready. This will change everything.

OK, maybe that’s a slight exaggeration.

Are we getting an LGF-branded one of these for all the RWNJ derp and fail? Because that would be awesome.

23 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:05:31pm

re: #9 Iwouldprefernotto

I remember before the Segway came out all the experts were saying it was going to change the world, how cities were built, etc. etc. Even some big names like Jeff Bezos bought into the hype.

Failure of the Segway has had a lot to do with the same force that kept items like the automobile from making a huge initial impact, namely that too many people either see it as a rich man’s toy or are inherently distrustful of it.

24 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:09:00pm
25 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:11:50pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

Failure of the Segway has had a lot to do with the same force that kept items like the automobile from making a huge initial impact, namely that too many people either see it as a rich man’s toy or are inherently distrustful of it.

Or its not that great unless people lose the ability to walk.

26 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:15:17pm

re: #25 Iwouldprefernotto

Or its not that great unless people lose the ability to walk.

Hard niche to squeeze into there between walking, bicycles, hand carts, and mopeds.

27 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:15:23pm

re: #25 Iwouldprefernotto

Or its not that great unless people lose the ability to walk.

True, which is why it should be used as a medical aid, but there’s been too much fight against it on those grounds. Ironic that it gets seen as a toy rather than an aid, but those damned scooters can go virtually anywhere.

28 AlexRogan  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:17:42pm

re: #11 Vicious Babushka

A kill-file!

Mobile LGF!

29 Kragar  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:18:21pm

The local they gave me earlier is wearing off, so I’m now acutely aware of the itchy hole in the back of my head.

30 jaunte  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:18:31pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

Image: fischersbane.jpg

31 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:19:12pm

re: #29 Kragar

The local they gave me earlier is wearing off, so I’m now acutely aware of the itchy hole in the back of my head.

I’m sure nothing valuable has fallen out.

//

32 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:19:45pm

…and also, and also, and also the fucking ‘sequester’, which was supposed to be effective because republicans would never, never, ever allow cuts to their precious military budget but somehow when it happened, poof, suddenly they don’t give a shit and now social services are being cut and the federal outlay is restricted and damaging the fucking recovery ferkrissakes and nothing, absolutely nothing, will be done about it

sheesh

33 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:20:32pm

re: #29 Kragar

itchy hole

sounds like a good location for a cowboy bar

34 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:26:13pm

re: #32 engineer cat

…and also, and also, and also the fucking ‘sequester’, which was supposed to be effective because republicans would never, never, ever allow cuts to their precious military budget but somehow when it happened, poof, suddenly they don’t give a shit and now social services are being cut and the federal outlay is restricted and damaging the fucking recovery ferkrissakes and nothing, absolutely nothing, will be done about it

sheesh

There are signs that the sequester is bugging the RW interests more than they say. The American Conservative Union is partnering with defense and transportation industry groups to increase (selected) federal spending.

Isn’t it ironic?

nytimes.com

35 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:31:19pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Tee shirts with todays Wrench wench LOL cat on it?

36 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:34:05pm

I haven’t verified the accuracy of this chart, but it does cite a source. The conclusions are unremarkable, but it’s cool to see it graphically:

Image: TeachersNugget.jpg

Our teachers work hard. Let’s reward them for it.

37 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:35:57pm

We’re approaching 10 million comments, folks, and I’m going to give away something cool to the 10M commenter. Details to come.

38 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:36:22pm

re: #34 Decatur Deb

There are signs that the sequester is bugging the RW interests more than they say. The American Conservative Union is partnering with defense and transportation industry groups to increase (selected) federal spending.

Isn’t it ironic?

nytimes.com

It’s bugging them, but not enough and in large enough numbers that they’re ready to put their asses on the line in the House. If anything, most of those who are angered by the effects of the sequester are just whining louder that “Obama is causing this!!”

39 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:37:05pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

It better not be a toaster!

40 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:38:56pm

re: #39 Dancing along the light of day

It better not be a toaster!

It’ll be two toasters.

41 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:39:01pm

re: #39 Dancing along the light of day

It better not be a toaster!

Nah, you’d have to submit to a background check for one of those.

//

42 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:39:25pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

We’re approaching 10 million comments, folks, and I’m going to give away something cool to the 10M commenter. Details to come.

I think you’re going to get a lot of one word comments now.

43 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:40:54pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

We’re approaching 10 million comments, folks, and I’m going to give away something cool to the 10M commenter. Details to come.

We bring you the girl, you’ll wipe away the debt?

/(Gamer moment)

44 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:41:47pm

Fallout:New Vegas is operating well on the computer. The mod is also working like a charm, as I have gotten a perk with the two level ups so far. 50 Perks!

Also, The little packs that came with the Courier’s Stash DLC have caused me to be overpowered. I crushed Cobb’s little invasion of Goodsprings in less than 2 minutes. Maybe under one.

Dynamite, followed my grenade rifle, followed by shotgun.

45 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:43:21pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

We’re approaching 10 million comments, folks, and I’m going to give away something cool to the 10M commenter. Details to come.

keith jarrett album?

46 Bear  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:44:33pm

re: #44 ProBosniaLiberal

Do you fire the shotgun through doors?

//

47 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:45:21pm

re: #39 Dancing along the light of day

It better not be a toaster!

Hey, if it’s a toaster based on using Varek’s orbital laser array and it can do bagels and bread well, including defrosting, I wouldn’t complain!
;)

48 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:45:33pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

This will change everything

i automatically already want the old one back, whatever it is

49 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:46:22pm

re: #47 Feline Fearless Leader

Giggles, it might be a toaster that even puts the cream cheese on your bagel!

50 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:47:39pm

re: #47 Feline Fearless Leader

Hey, if it’s a toaster based on using Varek’s orbital laser array and it can do bagels and bread well, including defrosting, I wouldn’t complain!
;)

A toaster is just a death ray with a smaller power supply.

//

51 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:48:40pm

re: #46 Bear

No, just through the head of Powder Gangers. Though that is likely a reference I am missing.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond….

DPP politician angers Kiwis

The money quote:

Apart from derogatory statements about the powhiri, her statements on the hongi – or ceremonial nose-rubbing, and description of a marae – or Maori sacred place – have been widely reported recently in the New Zealand media.

“A right-wing Danish politician has mocked a Maori welcome to New Zealand, dubbing the powhiri an “uncivilised” ritual, and marae a “grotesque” mark of multicultural worship. Marie Krarup, in an opinion piece in Danish newspaper Berlingske Tidende, was shocked to be welcomed by a dancing, barely-clothed man, instead of a handshake or salute,” The National says.

“She says on arrival at the Devonport Naval Base, her group was greeted by a man shouting and screaming in Maori, and poking his tongue out. Ms Krarup goes on to say she felt like an idiot giving a hongi and the waiata (Ed: song) performed by naval personnel sounded like a Danish children’s song about a happy ladybird,” The New Zealand Herald says.

Hey, Denmark has an equivalent to Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann!

52 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:49:10pm

re: #49 Dancing along the light of day

Giggles, it might be a toaster that even puts the cream cheese on your bagel!

mmmm cinnamon raisin bagel.

53 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:51:37pm

re: #52 HappyWarrior

mmmm cinnamon raisin bagel.

Death cult! Dead grapes on a ceremonially roasted bread object.

54 AlexRogan  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:52:21pm

re: #42 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I think you’re going to get a lot of one word comments now.

What?

/

55 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:53:06pm

re: #53 Feline Fearless Leader

Death cult! Dead grapes on a ceremonially roasted bread object.

I’ll go step further into blasphemy- Cinnamon bagel with ham on it.

56 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:53:19pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Amazon alerted me to some new music I’m actually interested in.

Is this new? I don’t have so my wallet is already wimpering but just curious if its a new set or not.

57 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:53:50pm

re: #56 William Barnett-Lewis

Is this new? I don’t have so my wallet is already wimpering but just curious if its a new set or not.

New … actually not released yet.

58 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:54:48pm

re: #55 HappyWarrior

Everything bagel! Lox, cream cheese, tomato & capers, please?

59 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:55:37pm

re: #58 Dancing along the light of day

Lox and cream cheese on an egg bagel. yum.

60 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:55:59pm

re: #58 Dancing along the light of day

Everything bagel! Lox, cream cheese, tomato & capers, please?

Anything goes.

61 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 6:56:42pm

re: #57 Charles Johnson

New … actually not released yet.

Major kewl beans. I love the work they do together. I’m not a super duper jazz guy but for me they’re the best trio going (that I know, little as that is, alas) right now.

Pre-ordered. Thank you for mentioning it.

62 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:02:19pm

So much music, so little time. Love getting sampler CDs. Great way to find out about new bands.

63 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:05:03pm

Speaking of Bioshock Infinite, this is one of two songs I’ve been unable to get out of my head after playing through:

64 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:06:34pm

re: #51 ProBosniaLiberal

No, just through the head of Powder Gangers. Though that is likely a reference I am missing.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond….

DPP politician angers Kiwis

The money quote:

Hey, Denmark has an equivalent to Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann!

Eurofascist wears his ass as a hat, gets called out for same. Footage at 10.

65 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:08:57pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Unfortunately, A New Zealand Newspaper commenting on this invited a Swedish Sociologist to comment on this.

That is a poor idea. History should show why.

66 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:11:00pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Footage at 10.

Heh. Midwestern boy with late news at 10 PM rather than 11 PM… ;)

67 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:11:21pm

From Jane’s on the F-35 (no link):

Third UK F-35 IOT&E aircraft makes maiden flight
The third of four initial operational test and evaluation (IOT&E) Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) / Joint Combat Aircraft (JCA) for the United Kingdom made its maiden flight on 2 April. The aircraft - BK-3 / ZM137 - departed Naval Air Station Fort Worth Joint Reserve Base in Texas with Lockheed Martin chief test pilot Alan Norman flying its first check-out sortie.

68 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:12:23pm

re: #65 ProBosniaLiberal

To elaborate, Denmark and Sweden have fought. A lot.

How much you ask? More than England and France. In fact more than any 2 countries in history.

Denmark and Sweden right now hold record for most wars fought between two countries repeatedly.

That’s like having a Yankee doing comments on the Boston Red Sox.

69 Mattand  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:12:23pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

I’m taking a lot longer to play Bioshock Infinite than most games because I keep wanting to explore all the amazing stuff. But I finally managed to get past the dreaded Fireman. That muh was crazy.

ARRRGHH!!! SPOILERS!!!!! REMEMBER THE BUTTON YOU MADE???!!!!111ty

I’m guessing I’m going to have to play the damn thing sooner than later…

70 Lidane  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:13:07pm

re: #45 engineer cat

keith jarrett album?

TARDIS.

71 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:13:39pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

From Jane’s on the F-35 (no link):

I guess I’m supposed to say “better late than never,” but that would be a lie.

72 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:13:40pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Eurofascist wears his ass as a hat, gets called out for same. Footage at 10.

Her.

Angering Maoris is foolish.

And what she’s mocking is something that that Navy adopted in order to boost morale. Maori warrior tradition is something amazing, and New Zealand’s armed forces use that tradition not just as a way of sintering society together, but because it’s an astounding and complex martial tradition that lends itself excellently to the sort of showy weirdness that can help bond military units together.

Here it is performed at a game between New Zealand and France, and France responds solidly. It elevates the contest to one of ritual. It’s awesome.

73 joe90  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:15:48pm

re: #51 ProBosniaLiberal


Meh, the local RWNJ’s are falling over themselves agreeing with her too.


74 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:17:54pm

re: #73 joe90

Let’s see if anybody of influence agrees. I somehow doubt it.

75 joe90  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:18:20pm

re: #72 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Tribute to a fallen comrade.


76 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:19:09pm

re: #72 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Her.

Angering Maoris is foolish.

And what she’s mocking is something that that Navy adopted in order to boost morale. Maori warrior tradition is something amazing, and New Zealand’s armed forces use that tradition not just as a way of sintering society together, but because it’s an astounding and complex martial tradition that lends itself excellently to the sort of showy weirdness that can help bond military units together.

Here it is performed at a game between New Zealand and France, and France responds solidly. It elevates the contest to one of ritual. It’s awesome.

[Embedded content]

Just another reminder that sport is just another implementation of ritualized combat.

77 Lidane  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:19:50pm
78 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:20:16pm

re: #72 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The Gurkhas are pretty amazing too.

79 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:20:48pm

re: #77 Lidane

Irony knows no bounds….

80 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:21:10pm

re: #77 Lidane

IOKIYAR

81 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:23:49pm

re: #72 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Her.

Angering Maoris is foolish.

And what she’s mocking is something that that Navy adopted in order to boost morale. Maori warrior tradition is something amazing, and New Zealand’s armed forces use that tradition not just as a way of sintering society together, but because it’s an astounding and complex martial tradition that lends itself excellently to the sort of showy weirdness that can help bond military units together.

Here it is performed at a game between New Zealand and France, and France responds solidly. It elevates the contest to one of ritual. It’s awesome.

[Embedded content]

The Maori weren’t only fierce, they were smart, too. They adopted firearms early, which gave them a fighting chance against the British. But where they really stood out was their adaptation of the forts, called Paus. Before the Maori knew about cannon, their Paus had high, relatively narrow walls, to make them difficult to storm. After they learned of the anti-fortress power of cannon, they built their paus with lower walls backed by earth, and incorporating bomb-proofs to allow defenders to survive mortar and rocket fire unscathed. This happened in Europe, too, but it took far longer. The Maori adapted to gunpower faster than any other nation.

82 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:27:12pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

And New Zealand, along with Australia and Canada, have a very distinguished history in war. Remember, Rommel said:

“If I had to take hell, I would use the Australians to take it and the New Zealanders to hold it.”

Or that Canada was the most feared nation on the Western Front.

83 Lidane  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:28:16pm

This will be full of hilarious fail:

84 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:29:10pm

re: #42 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I think you’re going to get a lot of one word comments now.

First! 10m!

85 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:29:35pm

re: #83 Lidane

This will be full of hilarious fail:

Would love for someone to ask why he would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It’s probably going to be your usual condescending bullshit knowing how he and his cuckoo father are.

86 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:29:54pm

re: #84 lawhawk

First! 10m!

10 mill mothafuckas.

87 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:30:15pm

re: #84 lawhawk

Are you so sure?

88 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:30:41pm

It’s like 6 year old boys not being able to find the sandy bottom with their toes.

89 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:32:01pm

re: #39 Dancing along the light of day

It better not be a toaster!

Depends on the toaster you’re talking about :)

90 joe90  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:33:20pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Gunpowder had a terrible impact on Māori.


Musket Wars.

91 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:33:33pm

re: #87 PhillyPretzel

A long time ago, in a not quite distant past, there was a race to be first on the discussion threads. Then Charles from on high ordained that such comments will be deleted. And it was good.

92 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:36:05pm

re: #91 lawhawk

I agree.

93 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:36:06pm

re: #90 joe90

Adding guns to long-standing feuds, especially when a few really, really assholic leaders come to power— not good.

94 Lidane  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:38:24pm

Ha!

95 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:40:45pm

re: #94 Lidane

That is mean, but I couldn’t help but laugh.

96 Mattand  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:41:03pm

re: #83 Lidane

This will be full of hilarious fail:

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:42:28pm

re: #90 joe90

Gunpowder had terrible impact on Māori.

Musket Wars.

Yes, it did. But at the same time, the Musket Wars also allowed them to develop the tactics and defense that let them take on the British with some chance of success. A high price to pay, to be sure, but that payment did let the Maori survive as a people and culture. Many aboriginal peoples in nearby Australia, by contrast, were not able to adapt (in some cases simply because they didn’t have access to firearms) and were ultimately destroyed.

98 Tigger2  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:48:10pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

We’re approaching 10 million comments, folks, and I’m going to give away something cool to the 10M commenter. Details to come.

A new car would be cool if I’m the 10M comment. lol

99 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:49:27pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

100 joe90  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:52:24pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Indeed DF, The 28th (Māori) Battalion

101 sagehen  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:56:30pm

re: #83 Lidane

This will be full of hilarious fail:

to paraphrase Steven Colbert from the last election cycle — “because that’s what it’s about for us, the 1870’s.”

102 Stanley Sea  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 7:57:57pm

re: #96 Mattand

Good one. Ha!

103 Decatur Deb  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 8:05:01pm

Play this about once a year, when the Maori come up:

Kiri Te Kanawa, Tarakihi

104 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 8:12:17pm

Okay because I didn’t watch the NCAA championship game last night, I only recently found out who the tournament’s MOP is. Turns out that not only did the guy play for GMU while I was there but transfered to Louisville but I actually met him too when I did a feature on him a few years ago. Funny.

105 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 8:29:42pm

re: #55 HappyWarrior

I’ll go step further into blasphemy- Cinnamon bagel with ham on it.

Ham & pineapple.

106 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 8:31:29pm

re: #105 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Ham & pineapple.

Mmm.

107 blueraven  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 8:47:50pm

re: #37 Charles

We’re approaching 10 million comments, folks, and I’m going to give away something cool to the 10M commenter. Details to come.

What if its a troll or Buck? /

108 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 9, 2013 10:57:54pm

Aye, we’re taking the brunt of the storm, by God. About now.

109 chadu  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 7:32:22am

re: #27 Targetpractice

True, which is why it should be used as a medical aid, but there’s been too much fight against it on those grounds. Ironic that it gets seen as a toy rather than an aid, but those damned scooters can go virtually anywhere.

Saw an older lady using one on the Metro here in DC a couple years ago. Very cool.


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