GOP Rebranding Watch: Rand Paul Ducks Record on Civil Rights in Awkward Howard Speech

GOP outreach: Rand Paul lies about his opposition to desegregation
Politics • Views: 28,160

As part of their much-heralded rebranding effort, the Republican Party bigwigs apparently thought it would be a great idea to send a Congressman to speak at historically black school Howard University.

Who did they choose for this important task? Which representative did they think would be the best to express their warm embrace of minorities?

Rand Paul, of course! The guy who, on more than one occasion, has said he’s opposed to the desegregation part of the Civil Rights Act: Rand Paul Ducks Record on Civil Rights in Awkward Howard Speech.

As Rand Paul told it, the biggest problem keeping African Americans from voting Republican is that they didn’t know Republicans have long been leaders on abolition and civil rights. As students at Howard University heard it, the problem was that Paul was condescending, misleading, and removed from the issues facing their community.

Would you be surprised to learn that Rand Paul immediately hauled out the blatantly deceptive right wing talking point that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, and that Democrats are the real racists?

The Howard audience sure wasn’t.

Paul devoted almost none of his speech Wednesday at the historically black college in Washington, D.C., to explaining the GOP’s thorny relationship with black voters over the last fifty years, and most of it arguing that “the Republican Party has always been the party of civil rights and voting rights.” His history lecture focused almost entirely on the period before 1964, when the GOP began to champion the states rights arguments of southern whites. Echoing a popular conservative talking point, Paul repeatedly reminded the audience that Democrats passed Jim Crow laws in the south and that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, as were the first black legislators and the founders of the NAACP.

“Would everyone know here they were all Republicans?” he said at one point, referring to the NAACP’s founders.

“Yes!” came the booming response from nearly the entire audience, who appeared offended Paul would even raise the question.

The complete lack of self-awareness is stunning; it apparently doesn’t even occur to Rand Paul (or the GOP in general) that this talking point is insulting to the intelligence of African Americans, who are very well aware of the history of racism in American politics.

They don’t fall for this transparent, sleazy bullshit, and they’re never going to fall for it. But that doesn’t stop Republicans from trying to pull the scam over and over and over, even when they know they’re speaking to a highly educated, politically aware audience. It’s amazing, and I don’t mean that in a good way; a measure of the deep dysfunction at the heart of right wing politics.

Also see

Jump to bottom

189 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 10:58:34am
2 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:03:24am

This whole “Why do blacks vote for Democrats?” talking point raised its head ages ago, and looks fine to any ideologically blindered person with a selective view of history, i.e., someone who lives within the TPGOP/Fox News bubble.

To the rest of us, it is offensive and ludicrous

3 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:04:02am

Yeah, put Rand Paul in a room full of educated people, what could possibly go wrong?

4 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:05:09am
5 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:05:53am

WHY DO BLACKS VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS WHEN GOP ENDED SLAVERY IN 1865??

Because GOP and Democrats swapped ideologies back in the 1960’s. DUH.

6 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:06:43am

re: #5 Vicious Babushka

Because GOP and Democrats swapped ideologies back in the 1960’s. DUH.

Facts have a liberal bias.

7 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:06:56am

What is this I don’t even…

8 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:07:00am
9 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:07:33am

BUTTHURT DERP

10 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:07:37am

Shorter Rand Paul: “Who are you going to trust — me, or your entire life experience?”

11 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:07:47am

Obviously, the guy in a tuxedo who is supposed to grab Rand and sing “MISTAKE!” had the day off when he agreed to make this speech.

12 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:09:17am

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

BUTTHURT DERP

Yeah, I’m sure the Pentagon will be all over that Bryan.

13 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:09:42am

Paul and the rest of the GOP think that they can rebrand and gain followers by rehashing how the GOP had supported civil rights back in 1860s under Lincoln, all while they’ve shifted so far to the right in opposition of civil and equal rights that they can’t mount a credible argument for why anyone who isn’t white should support them.

And then he went out and flat out lied about his insistence that he’s a supporter of the CRA, when he’s on tape indicating the exact opposite.

It’s insulting to the intelligence of everyone in the room.

If this is the best that the GOP can do in their rebranding, they will continue to lose ground and concede more voters to the Democratic party.

14 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:10:09am

re: #11 Kragar

Obviously, the guy in a tuxedo who is supposed to grab Rand and sing “MISTAKE!” had the day off when he agreed to make this speech.

Nah—it’s a fine companion piece to Romney’s triumph with the NAACP.

15 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:10:32am

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

He’d have more luck getting bears to apologize.

16 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:11:16am

re: #13 lawhawk

…snip
If this is the best that the GOP can do in their rebranding, they will continue to lose ground and concede more voters to the Democratic party.

‘Tis a pity, that.

17 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:12:18am

re: #13 lawhawk

It’s insulting to the intelligence of everyone in the room.

So is the entire Republican party, but that hasn’t stopped them yet.

This will never not be funny. A Neo-Confederate white Senator going to Howard University and trying to explain black history to a bunch of highly educated black students? Priceless.

18 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:16:09am

re: #10 Lidane

Shorter Rand Paul: “Who are you going to trust — me, or your entire life experience?”

And the life experience of their parents, grandparents, and maybe great grandparents.

Why African-Americans flipped their vote is not some kind of archaeological mystery.

Oh god, this guy represents my state.

19 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:16:17am

re: #4 Lidane

“The first thing the GOP needs to do in order to reach out to African Americans is stop trying to prevent us from voting.”

Here we go again:

Texas House Bill To Cut Early Voting Days Introduced, Opposed And Likely To Be Shelved

The language of House Bill 2093 does not spell out why lawmakers want to cut the time voters have to cast their ballots before an election. Brandon Rottinghaus, associate professor of Political Science at the University of Houston says it could be a reaction to demographic changes.

“You’ve got more young voters. You’ve got more voters who are more likely to vote Democratic.”

20 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:18:26am

Rand Paul to black student: Bringing up GOP voter suppression ‘demeans’ Civil Rights movement

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) accused a black Howard University student of demeaning the civil rights movement by bringing up recent GOP efforts to limit voting accessibility.

“The Republican Party has been using their state legislators and their governments to prevent African-Americans from voting, because they didn’t want to re-elect President Obama.” said the student, Julian Lewis, a former White House intern under President Barack Obama. “So I’m asking you, how can we believe what you’re saying in regards to voting rights when we honestly feel, based on our intellectual ability to gauge whether you can connect with us or not, how can you say that, sir?”

Paul countered by revisiting one theme of his speech, pointing out that it was Southern Democrats who were behind the early efforts to stifle African-American voting rights before the civil rights movement took hold.

“I think if you liken using a drivers’ license to literacy tests, you demean the horror of what happened in the ’40s and ’50s, maybe probably from 1910 all the way through the 1960s in the South,” Paul said. “It was horrific. Nobody is in favor of that. No Republican is in favor of that. But showing your drivers’ license to have an honest election, I think, is not unreasonable. And I think that’s the main thing Republicans have been for.”

However, voter ID laws and other Republican-backed measures such as the curtailing of early voting hours have in fact been heavily criticized for disproportionately affecting the African-American voting community, among others, prompting Sen. Nina Turner (D-OH) to say in August 2012 that “Jim Crow has been resurrected” in her state.

21 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:18:54am

re: #18 The Ghost of a Flea

And the life experience of their parents, grandparents, and maybe great grandparents.

Why African-Americans flipped their vote is not some kind of archaeological mystery.

Seriously. It’s not fucking rocket science. Minorities aren’t stupid. The GOP just wishes they were. People aren’t falling for it:

Oh god, this guy represents my state.

I’m stuck with John Cornyn and Ted Cruz. I weep for Texas.

22 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:20:33am

re: #20 Kragar

Rand Paul to black student: Bringing up GOP voter suppression ‘demeans’ Civil Rights movement

23 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:21:18am

Fuck the wilderness, the GOP is heading to Pluto.

24 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:21:35am

The Rand Paul 2016 Campaign committee reviews the Howard Speech fallout:

25 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:21:40am

re: #20 Kragar

Rand Paul may not really be ignorant, he may just be a malignant narcissist.

26 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:22:04am

re: #21 Lidane

Seriously. It’s not fucking rocket science. Minorities aren’t stupid. The GOP just wishes they were. People aren’t falling for it:

I’m stuck with John Cornyn and Ted Cruz. I weep for Texas.

Certainly lack the grace and charm of my Senator Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third.

(Never can type that enough…)

27 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:22:07am

re: #21 Lidane

Seriously. It’s not fucking rocket science. Minorities aren’t stupid. The GOP just wishes they were. People aren’t falling for it:

I’m stuck with John Cornyn and Ted Cruz. I weep for Texas.

I’m surprised that he didn’t pull out that old “MLK was a Republican!” bullshit talking point.

28 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:22:54am
29 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:23:32am

*FACE PALM*

30 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:24:08am

re: #25 jaunte

31 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:24:09am

And this is where my senator tells blacks they need to get off the welfare teat:

The Democrats promised equalizing outcomes through unlimited federal assistance while Republicans offered something that seemed less tangible–the promise of equalizing opportunity through free markets.

So reading bits of the transcript, my strong suspicion is that this is not at all an act of outreach to African Americans. It’s about outreach to other Republicans who will think it’s bold and honest to enter the Fortress of Blackness, speak the Sacred Truthiness and the Holy Talking Points, and escape unmolested….

32 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:24:30am

re: #29 Vicious Babushka

“Its very clear now.”

That these people have lost their fucking minds.

33 Bulworth  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:24:42am

re: #20 Kragar

Vomit

Maybe Paul doesn’t know that not everyone in the US effin A drives an effin car. For example, people who live in cities. But longer lines, less time to vote, and more requirements to vote are totally not like literacy tests or poll taxes. My ass.

34 erik_t  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:25:35am

Ah, yes, I see. Because Bush had an absolutely sterling record of not getting Americans killed in the Middle East.

35 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:25:54am

re: #29 Vicious Babushka

They really really don’t want to get into the whole “getting people killed” debate.

36 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:25:58am

re: #20 Kragar

Rand Paul to black student: Bringing up GOP voter suppression ‘demeans’ Civil Rights movement

The whole discussion of voting rights and voter ID is another one of those things in need of comprehensive reform nearly on the scale of immigration reform.

One thing that would help solve both issues would be to issue a national ID card for all citizens, along with one for resident aliens: it would end all questions of elegibility and residency/employment status.

Anybody in favor of introducing one?

*crickets*

37 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:26:29am

re: #29 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*

If he had never been president 10,000 Americans would be alive at Bragg, Hood, Knox, Sill, Stewart, Benning, Campbell…

38 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:26:45am

re: #36 Sol Berdinowitz

The whole discussion of voting rights and voter ID is another one of those things in need of comprehensive reform nearly on the scale of immigration reform.

One thing that would help solve both issues would be to issue a national ID card for all citizens, along with one for resident aliens: it would end all questions of elegibility and residency/employment status.

Anybody in favor of introducing one?

*crickets*

What are you, a commie UN Agenda 21 stooge?
/

39 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:26:50am

re: #34 erik_t

Ah, yes, I see. Because Bush had an absolutely sterling record of not getting Americans killed in the Middle East.

To say nothing of getting Middle Eastern people killed in the Middle East.

40 Bulworth  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:29:02am

re: #39 The Ghost of a Flea

ME people aren’t people, they’re terrorists—who we liberated. ///

41 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:29:17am

one of the current headlines on the AFA site now reads: OBAMA GROUNDS BLUE ANGELS.

42 kirkspencer  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:29:24am

As I said in a [eta: comment in a] page, the best thing about Rand’s presentation is that it shows me he will be no more successful at being president than his father. He sounds good second hand or in small sound bites. Give him some time to talk, though, and he’ll say something to make him a non-starter with the vast majority of people, both left and right.

I was worried a little. Not now, though. Now the GOP’s still got to deal with having almost no minorities, only 45% of women, and not topping 60% of white males. By 2016 that requirement should be 64% of white males, depending on the success of various disenfranchisement efforts.

43 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:30:30am

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

one of the current headlines on the AFA site now reads: OBAMA GROUNDS BLUE ANGELS.

He is NOT ON tHE SiDE OF the ANGELS!!!

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:31:24am

re: #29 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*

Please spare us this crap. It is really mind-numbing.

45 Bulworth  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:31:51am

So, according to Paul, since we don’t have a national voter ID requirement, we don’t have ‘honest’ elections? And since we haven’t ever had a national photo voter ID, does that mean we have never had an ‘honest’ election?

I wonder if anyone asked Paul who got Motor Voter passed, and what Republicans, in the 1990’s and now, think of Motor Voter?

46 erik_t  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:31:58am

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

one of the current headlines on the AFA site now reads: OBAMA GROUNDS BLUE ANGELS.

One of tomorrow’s headlines on the AFA site shall read: OBAMA CONSIDERS FUNDING BLUE CRESCENTS

47 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:32:19am

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

one of the current headlines on the AFA site now reads: OBAMA GROUNDS BLUE ANGELS.

Actually, the Navy cancelled their shows due to the sequester. Something about how they need to actually conduct missions and not air shows.

48 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:33:25am
49 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:34:01am

re: #47 Kragar

Actually, the Navy cancelled their shows due to the sequester. Something about how they need to actually conduct missions and not air shows.

And who is responsible for the sequester? Not the GOP! All Obama has to do is to give into all their budget demands, can that be so hard? It just shows how much he hates the military, and by extension, everything that is Good and Holy about America!!!

50 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:35:35am

re: #42 kirkspencer

As I said in a page, the best thing about Rand’s presentation is that it shows me he will be no more successful at being president than his father. He sounds good second hand or in small sound bites. Give him some time to talk, though, and he’ll say something to make him a non-starter with the vast majority of people, both left and right.

I was worried a little. Not now, though. Now the GOP’s still got to deal with having almost no minorities, only 45% of women, and not topping 60% of white males. By 2016 that requirement should be 64% of white males, depending on the success of various disenfranchisement efforts.

I invoke the Pierce Five-Minute Rule where it concerns the Paul family, namely that they seem to make sense for exactly five minutes, but when 5:00:01 rolls around, they start babbling about auditing the Fed or the gold standard and your brain immediately begins looking for the nearest exit.

51 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:36:17am

One Third Of Air Force Combat Planes Will Be Grounded Due To Budget Cuts

A third of the U.S. Air Force’s active-duty force of combat planes including fighters and bombers will be grounded due to federal budget cuts, and only the units preparing to deploy to major operations, such as the war in Afghanistan, will remain mission-ready, a top general said Tuesday.

Other units would stand down on a rotating basis, said Gen. Mike Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command at Joint Base Langley-Eustis in Virginia.

“The current situation means we’re accepting the risk that combat airpower may not be ready to respond immediately to new contingencies as they occur,” Hostage said in a statement.

The Air Force didn’t immediately release a list of the specific units and bases that would be affected, but it said it would cover some fighters like F-16 Fighting Falcons and F-22 Raptors, and some airborne warning and control aircraft in the U.S., Europe and the Pacific.

52 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:36:49am
In an interview with NPR today, Paul was asked three times about his position on the Civil Rights Act, but each time he dodged giving a declarative answer. “A lot of things that were actually in the bill I’m actually in favor of,” said Paul. Hinting at what he doesn’t “favor,” Paul added that “a lot of things can be handled locally.

BECAUSE HANDLING DISCRIMINATION ISSUES LOCALLY WORKED OUT SO FUCKING WELL IN THE POST-RECONSTRUCTION SOUTH*, DICKWEED.

* AND PARTS OF THE NORTH

53 iossarian  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:38:10am

re: #52 The Ghost of a Flea

BECAUSE HANDLING DISCRIMINATION ISSUES LOCALLY WORKED OUT SO FUCKING WELL IN THE POST-RECONSTRUCTION SOUTH AND PARTS OF THE NORTH, DICKWEED.

Elementary schools that are 100% white (and well-funded) or 100% minority (with crappy funding)?

That’s a local issue.

54 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:39:21am

re: #52 The Ghost of a Flea

BECAUSE HANDLING DISCRIMINATION ISSUES LOCALLY WORKED OUT SO FUCKING WELL IN THE POST-RECONSTRUCTION SOUTH AND PARTS OF THE NORTH, DICKWEED.

Sit back and enjoy our production of 2016. In a virtuoso turn, the roles of both Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann will be played by Rand Paul.

55 Mattand  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:39:44am

Shorter Rand Paul: “Hey, Howard University! The title of my speech is ‘Blame the Victim.’ “

56 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:43:59am

Much of the discussion of Aqua Buddha’s rise to prominence has focused on his political philosophy, and far too little has been focused on the fact that he’s pretty much dumb as a stump.

57 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:45:02am

Some of these right wing talking points like “Democrats are the real racists!” are getting to be like fingernails on a blackboard for me. What the fuck is wrong with these people, to keep repeating this obviously false bullshit? Who do they think is falling for it?

Nobody. That’s who’s falling for it. It’s pathetic.

58 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:46:21am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

Some of these right wing talking points like “Democrats are the real racists!” are getting to be like fingernails on a blackboard for me. What the fuck is wrong with these people, to keep repeating this obviously false bullshit? Who do they think is falling for it?

Nobody. That’s who’s falling for it. It’s pathetic.

They keep repeating it to each other inside their little echo chamber. I think they really do believe it. I know they get really pissed when they get called out on it.

59 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:46:54am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

What the fuck is wrong with these people, to keep repeating this obviously false bullshit? Who do they think is falling for it?

Nobody. That’s who’s falling for it. It’s pathetic.

They know exactly who’s falling for it — the ignorant white people in the GOP base. They know where their votes come from.

60 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:47:41am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

Some of these right wing talking points like “Democrats are the real racists!” are getting to be like fingernails on a blackboard for me. What the fuck is wrong with these people, to keep repeating this obviously false bullshit? Who do they think is falling for it?

Nobody. That’s who’s falling for it. It’s pathetic.

They say it these days because their angry white man demographic is dying off and it’s no longer okay to declare that black folks are coming to take away their way of life in polite company anymore.

61 dragonath  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:49:28am

Southerners saw the light and stopped voting for those evil racist Democrats, I’m telling you!

62 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:49:41am

HOW DARE U SAY I’M A RACIST WHEN U HATE BEN CARSON, HERMAN CAIN & ALLEN WEST!!11!!!

63 Dr. Matt  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:50:14am

Yes, Democrats are the real racists!!!! And to prove it, they elected a Black President!!!!!!!

Signed,
Teahadist Logic

64 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:50:21am

re: #54 Decatur Deb

Sit back and enjoy our production of 2016. In a virtuoso turn, the roles of both Ron Paul and Michele Bachmann will be played by Rand Paul.

Speak of the devil…

Bachmann aides shove reporters in flight from ethics questions

The way the Tribune describes it, Bachmann aides Deb Steiskal and Brian Gordon essentially filled the roles of football blocking backs for the embattled Republican, taking up either flank and pushing two reporters out of her way as they made a beeline for the exit. One of those reporters was a cameraman for the local Fox News affiliate, MyFox Twin Cities, whose video is embedded below.

65 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:50:56am

re: #52 The Ghost of a Flea

BECAUSE HANDLING DISCRIMINATION ISSUES LOCALLY WORKED OUT SO FUCKING WELL IN THE POST-RECONSTRUCTION SOUTH*, DICKWEED.

* AND PARTS OF THE NORTH

Rand Paul and the rest of the GOP fuckwits think that pre-Civil Rights party ideologies are somehow still relevant, against all the evidence to the contrary.

They don’t get it. They never will until all their angry white guys die off and the GOP finds itself having to join the real world at long last.

66 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:51:07am

re: #36 Sol Berdinowitz

The whole discussion of voting rights and voter ID is another one of those things in need of comprehensive reform nearly on the scale of immigration reform.

One thing that would help solve both issues would be to issue a national ID card for all citizens, along with one for resident aliens: it would end all questions of elegibility and residency/employment status.

Anybody in favor of introducing one?

*crickets*

One of these things is not like the other.

Immigration reform is needed because 11 million people are living here without benefit of papers; raising families, paying taxes, going to school as long as they can, dying when they go to see a sick family member and have to sneak across the desert to get back to their spouses and kids, dropping out when they can’t get loans to go to school, suffering abuse because they fear the police more than they fear their abusers, etc.

Voter ID is needed because vote suppression is the only way Republicans can win national office any more.

So, yeah, crickets.

67 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:51:42am

re: #63 Dr. Matt

Yes, Democrats are the real racists!!!! And to prove it, they elected a Black President!!!!!!!

Signed,
Teahadist Logic

Nah, their logic is that Democrats voted for Obama as cover, to convince folks they’re not racists by voting for a black guy. That he was reelected is part of the reason why they’re having a hard time making sense of anything right now.

68 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:51:50am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

Echo. Echo. Echo.

It’s an echo chamber and they’ve been pushing the feedback to 11.

69 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:52:09am

They keep repeating it because they believe political party identity is more important than political party actions and assume everybody else believes the same.

70 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:52:53am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

What the fuck is wrong with these people, to keep repeating this obviously false bullshit?

Bullshit is their stock in trade.
“Top headlines” in the latest email from Fox News:
Image: Screen_shot_2013-04-10_at_1.50.20_PM.png

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:53:00am

re: #66 wrenchwench

One of these things is not like the other.

Immigration reform is needed because 11 million people are living here without benefit of papers; raising families, paying taxes, going to school as long as they can, dying when they go to see a sick family member and have to sneak across the desert to get back to their spouses and kids, dropping out when they can’t get loans to go to school, suffering abuse because they fear the police more than they fear their abusers, etc.

Voter ID is needed because vote suppression is the only way Republicans can win national office any more.

So, yeah, crickets.

I am not saying one is at all like the other, I am just saying that they both need comprehensive reform and could both be aided by a national ID

72 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:54:01am

re: #68 lawhawk

Echo. Echo. Echo.

It’s an echo chamber and they’ve been pushing the feedback to 11.

All you can hear in a ’50s plastic hamster ball are echos.

73 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:54:16am

re: #57 Charles Johnson

Some of these right wing talking points like “Democrats are the real racists!” are getting to be like fingernails on a blackboard for me. What the fuck is wrong with these people, to keep repeating this obviously false bullshit? Who do they think is falling for it?

Nobody. That’s who’s falling for it. It’s pathetic.

It makes sense if you think of it less in salesmanship terms and more as a ritual of solidarity. It’s a counterfactual history in which they’re blameless and their opponents are not just wrong, but malefic. It’s a setup where they can claim to be helping African Americans but at the same time soft-ball in racist assumptions about the latter. It’s having your cake and eating it too, in propaganda doublethink.

That shit works.

74 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:54:51am

re: #68 lawhawk

Echo. Echo. Echo.

It’s an echo chamber and they’ve been pushing the feedback to 11.

Oh, and the constant complaining that they are the “real” victims of racism and the Holocaust.

75 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:55:45am

re: #74 Vicious Babushka

Oh, and the constant complaining that they are the “real” victims of racism and the Holocaust.

They really hate it when people play the victim card don’t they?

76 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:56:23am

re: #71 Sol Berdinowitz

I am not saying one is at all like the other, I am just saying that they both need comprehensive reform and could both be aided by a national ID

And I am saying the need for voter ID is a nasty myth made up by racists who don’t want brown and/or poor people to vote because Republicans are now failing to convince them to vote against their interests.

There is virtually no voter fraud. Except by Republicans trying to prove that it can be done.

There is no need for ‘comprehensive reform’ when it comes to voter fraud.

77 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:56:30am

Enjoy This Cranky Old Man Who Still Can’t Believe They Untie Women From The Stove

Via Lindy West at Jezebel comes this column by Jack Engelhard of the Washington Times denouncing all those meanie feminists with their meanie rules about treating women like professionals in a professional setting. It’s truly a thing of wonder. It reads like someone just took notes off a rant that Engelhard shot off during a family get-together, one perhaps aimed at younger female relatives who he resents because they’ve neglected their female duty to pretend he’s smart, so instead he’s going to exploit their unwillingness to argue with their elders to make them uncomfortably. Naturally, Engelhard is mad about Obama apologizing for his inappropriate remarks regarding Kamala Harris’s looks during a political event, and is happy to feign confusion and attack strawmen in response.

Women’s lib only began a few decades ago.

Please, give us a chance to learn the rules. Give us a minute to catch our breath.

Of course, as he makes very clear in this piece, helping you “learn the rules” through traditional teaching strategies like gently critcizing people who break “the rules” or explaining what “the rules” are and how to follow them. We are to be utterly silent in the face of sexism, and eventually it will go away because somethingsomething, that’s why.

78 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:57:18am

re: #75 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

They really hate it when OTHER people play the victim card don’t they?

FTFY

79 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:58:29am

re: #78 Lidane

FTFY

You blunted my sarcasm.

80 dragonath  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 11:59:24am

There’s a banner ad at the top of the page asking me if Obama is “Waging a War on Christians”.

Hell yes, the local church had to melt down all its silver cups to pay for Obama’s Church Tax and the Dark Lord himself is reputed to defile the relics of saints.

True Story.

81 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:00:50pm

re: #76 wrenchwench

And I am saying the need for voter ID is a nasty myth made up by racists who don’t want brown and/or poor people to vote because Republicans are now failing to convince them to vote against their interests.

There is virtually no voter fraud. Except by Republicans trying to prove that it can be done.

There is no need for ‘comprehensive reform’ when it comes to voter fraud.

Lemme phrase it this way: if you want to end the discussion on voter eligiblity, just issue a national voter ID card, free of charge to all eligible voters i.e., all US citizens. That would lay the matter to rest entirely.

82 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:01:07pm

re: #77 Kragar

Enjoy This Cranky Old Man Who Still Can’t Believe They Untie Women From The Stove

It still continues to absolutely outrage the older folks that life isn’t like a scene from Mad Men and women actually expect to be respected in public as something other than their husband’s property.

83 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:01:41pm

re: #81 Sol Berdinowitz

Lemme phrase it this way: if you want to end the discussion on voter eligiblity, just issue a national voter ID card, free of charge to all eligible voters i.e., all US citizens. That would lay the matter to rest entirely.

Never happen, the black helicopter crowd would start screaming “Number of the beast!” and that would be the end of it.

84 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:01:59pm

re: #81 Sol Berdinowitz

Lemme phrase it this way: if you want to end the discussion on voter eligiblity, just issue a national voter ID card, free of charge to all eligible voters i.e., all US citizens. That would lay the matter to rest entirely.

And make ‘666’ appear somewhere on it in sequence in order to trigger a total religious nut freakout.
:p

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:04:49pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

Never happen, the black helicopter crowd would start screaming “Number of the beast!” and that would be the end of it.

I know, I was just sayin’ that doing so would end the problem once and for all. That is how they vote in Germany: go down to the local polling place (they vote on Sundays), slap down your ID card, they tick you off the list.

No fraud, no accusations of fraud, no “provisional ballots”.

But yeah, there would be as much opposition from the left as from the right, although not quite as outraged and disjointed.

86 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:05:34pm

I am so sick of conservatives like Paul acting like the GOP is okay because the GOP was the party of Lincoln. Guess what, it has not been the party of Lincoln and has not for a very time. Tired of his lies. I’m surprised Howard even gave him the time of day. He doesn’t deserve it.

87 danarchy  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:06:46pm

re: #81 Sol Berdinowitz

Lemme phrase it this way: if you want to end the discussion on voter eligiblity, just issue a national voter ID card, free of charge to all eligible voters i.e., all US citizens. That would lay the matter to rest entirely.

Not necessarily, I think some of the voter ID laws offered a free state ID, but the complaint was that some elderly people do not have easy access to a birth certificate or other readily available proof of citizenship in order to qualify for the ID. A national ID wouldn’t address that issue. I am sure there would be ways to adequately address that concern, but for some just the idea of having to show ID to vote is verboten.

88 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:07:05pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

I am so sick of conservatives like Paul acting like the GOP is okay because the GOP was the party of Lincoln. Guess what, it has not been the party of Lincoln and has not for a very time. Tired of his lies. I’m surprised Howard even gave him the time of day. He doesn’t deserve it.

At least he did not try to claim that Martin Luther King was a Republican…

89 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:07:40pm

re: #88 Sol Berdinowitz

At least he did not try to claim that Martin Luther King was a Republican…

Silver linings and all that :).

90 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:07:42pm

re: #85 Sol Berdinowitz

I know, I was just sayin’ that doing so would end the problem once and for all. That is how they vote in Germany: go down to the local polling place (they vote on Sundays), slap down your ID card, they tick you off the list.

No fraud, no accusations of fraud, no “provisional ballots”.

But yeah, there would be as much opposition from the left as from the right, although not quite as outraged and disjointed.

And it wouldn’t really address the leading type of electoral fraud, namely absentee ballots. The number of folks coming in and identifying themselves as Joe Smith when they’re really Bob Smith is vanishingly small. Take voter IDs off the table as an issue and others, such as tightening the hours of early voting or places you can get said IDs, would be the next avenues of shrinking the number of participating voters.

91 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:08:02pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

I’m surprised Howard even gave him the time of day. He doesn’t deserve it.

Actually, I’m glad they did. Rand Paul perfectly exposed the GOP’s idiocy on race, black history and civil rights to the world.

92 chadu  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:09:53pm

I keep telling you, we need to resurrect TR to beat some sense into today’s GOP.

93 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:09:59pm

re: #87 danarchy

Not necessarily, I think some of the voter ID laws offered a free state ID, but the complaint was that some elderly people do not have easy access to a birth certificate or other readily available proof of citizenship in order to qualify for the ID. A national ID wouldn’t address that issue. I am sure there would be ways to adequately address that concern, but for some just the idea of having to show ID to vote is verboten.

It is all a theoretical consideration at best.

It is just a matter of everyday life that people here in Europe have an ID card and a registered address.

America has never had a system like that and most likely never will. Which means that we have to do our best to come up with a system that ensures that all eligible citzens can vote freely and fairly.

94 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:11:21pm

re: #92 chadu

I keep telling you, we need to resurrect TR to beat some sense into today’s GOP.

TR? Hell I’d be happy if they listened to the still living George H.W Bush more.

95 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:11:38pm

re: #91 Lidane

Actually, I’m glad they did. Rand Paul perfectly exposed the GOP’s idiocy on race, black history and civil rights to the world.

idiocy and condescension.

96 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:12:30pm

re: #91 Lidane

Actually, I’m glad they did. Rand Paul perfectly exposed the GOP’s idiocy on race, black history and civil rights to the world.

True, true. Really, it’s true that the Democrats had a rotten history with race but what Paul and other GOPers ignore is that the Democrats ended up championing Civil Rights while his party embraced the Southern Strategy. There’s a reason why African Americans and other minorities don’t like or trust the Republican Party and it’s because they prefer pandering to people’s bigotry over embracing people.

97 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:13:34pm

re: #95 The Ghost of a Flea

idiocy and condescension.

Yeah, the asshole asked the audience of one of the DC area’s best colleges if they knew what party Lincoln belonged to. I’m actually pretty amused that Rand’s trying to claim Lincoln considering his father is one of the Lincoln OMG TYRANT.

98 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:14:11pm

Rand Paul tripped up by Civil Rights Act once again

…The Republican senator told his Howard audience, “I’ve never wavered in my support for civil rights or the Civil Rights Act.” He added, “I’ve never been against the Civil Rights Act, ever.”

As a candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2010, Paul told the Louisville Courier-Journal he opposed the Civil Rights Act’s ban on discrimination on the basis of race in “places of public accommodation” such as privately owned businesses that are open to the public. He said the same thing on NPR.

99 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:14:45pm

OT but man is it hot here in NoVa. Was freezing my ass of Saturday night at my kid brother’s LL game and now I have my fan on and my window open. Definitely feeling a hot summer coming.

100 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:15:15pm

re: #98 jaunte

Rand Paul tripped up by Civil Rights Act once again

Yeah but Rand Paul is different than other Republicans.//

101 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:16:38pm

Charles P. Pierce:

“Much of the discussion of Aqua Buddha’s rise to prominence has focused on his political philosophy, and far too little has been focused on the fact that he’s pretty much dumb as a stump.”

esquire.com

102 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:16:45pm

GOP shouts Dixiecrats were Democrats. And it’s true they were but they ignore that Nixon and Reagan made huge efforts and succeeded getting their votes.

103 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:17:48pm

re: #80 dragonath

There’s a banner ad at the top of the page asking me if Obama is “Waging a War on Christians”.

Hell yes, the local church had to melt down all its silver cups to pay for Obama’s Church Tax and the Dark Lord himself is reputed to defile the relics of saints.

True Story.

I resent that remark, anything that happens between a Dark Lord and a consenting relic is not a matter for the state.

104 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:18:21pm

re: #101 jaunte

Charles P. Pierce:

esquire.com

I’m amazed that he’s a trained physician. He really is that ignorant. And frankly, I don’t know why his father who is no more than just a Ludwig Von Mises fan gets treated as a respectable authority on economics. a lot of people hate on Krugman but at least Krugman is a trained economist rather than a Von Mises suck up.

105 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:19:30pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

True, true. Really, it’s true that the Democrats had a rotten history with race but what Paul and other GOPers ignore is that the Democrats ended up championing Civil Rights while his party embraced the Southern Strategy. There’s a reason why African Americans and other minorities don’t like or trust the Republican Party and it’s because they prefer pandering to people’s bigotry over embracing people.

They don’t trust the GOP because the losers of the CRA vote, namely Goldwater and his crowd, convinced the party that the future of electoral victories was winning over the angry white vote down South.

106 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:19:38pm


Rand Paul:

No Republican questions or disputes civil rights. I have never wavered in my support for civil rights or the Civil Rights Act.

The dispute, if there is one, has always been about how much of the remedy should come under federal or state or private purview.

What gets lost is that the Republican Party has always been the party of civil rights and voting rights.

Because Republicans believe that the federal government is limited in its function-some have concluded that Republicans are somehow inherently insensitive to minority rights.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

107 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:20:13pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

GOP shouts Dixiecrats were Democrats. And it’s true they were but they ignore that Nixon and Reagan made huge efforts and succeeded getting their votes.

And they started splitting away from the Democratic Party over race issues such as the integration of the Armed Forces under Truman in the late 40s. LBJ and the civil rights bills in the 60s pushed them further away from the Democratic mainstream and the GOP at that point saw them a viable group to recruit via the Southern Strategy.

So the polarization of the 1860s essentially switched 180 degrees in the 1960s. But that sounds sciency and therefore obviously never happened.

108 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:22:15pm
“How did the party that elected the first black U.S. senator, the party that elected the first 20 African-American congressmen, how did that party become a party that now loses 95 percent of the black vote?” Paul asked.

“How did the Republican Party, the party of the Great Emancipator lose the trust and faith of an entire race? From the Civil War to the civil rights movement for a century most black Americans voted Republican. How did we lose that vote?” he asked.

“I think what happened during the Great Depression is that African-Americans understood that Republicans did champion citizenship and voting rights, but they became impatient, because they wanted economic emancipation,” Paul said.

Oh, yeah; they became impatient.

109 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:22:21pm

re: #106 jaunte

Rand Paul:

Yeah Republicans cherish voting rights and civil rights so much that the guy all of them consider a model judge has said he would have dissented in Brown Vs the Board of Education and more recently showed disdain for the Voting Rights Act. And then we have Speaking Boehner who’s made it his mission to protect DOMA at all costs. And of course the many Republican governors who signed legislation to make it harder to vote. And of course Rand himself. Your party’s not the party of Civil Rights. It may have been at one point but it ceased to be a long time ago.

110 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:22:57pm

re: #108 jaunte

Oh, yeah; they became impatient.

Breathtaking FAIL.

111 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:23:05pm

I hear screams from the shadows
Beside rough notes from the trees.
Following diminished footprints
Living hidden under dead leaves.

112 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:23:27pm

re: #107 Feline Fearless Leader

And they started splitting away from the Democratic Party over race issues such as the integration of the Armed Forces under Truman in the late 40s. LBJ and the civil rights bills in the 60s pushed them further away from the Democratic mainstream and the GOP at that point saw them a viable group to recruit via the Southern Strategy.

So the polarization of the 1860s essentially switched 180 degrees in the 1960s. But that sounds sciency and therefore obviously never happened.

My username’s namesake had a role in that. Really pissed off Strom and co when he said the Democratic Party needed to leave the darkness of states rights and enter the sunshine of human rights. HHH was only 37 when he said that and the mayor of Minneapolis I believe.

113 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:23:55pm

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

Condescension prizewinner of the year?

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:24:29pm

re: #108 jaunte

Oh, yeah; they became impatient.

The general theme seems to be that black people just don’t seem to know what is good for them: more states’ rights, less federal government, more GOP.

Well, it follows that if they cannot be motivated to vote in their own interestes, then they just should not be allowed to vote

/

115 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:24:41pm

re: #108 jaunte

Oh, yeah; they became impatient.

Yeah became impatient, maybe they were upset that the conditions for many African Americans especially in the deep South was still really bad following the end of slavery. Rand should read a history book some time rather than the Noe-Confederate bed time stories that his daddy used to read to him.

116 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:25:04pm
One in six Americans live in poverty, more than at any time in recent history,” Paul said. “In fact, the poor have grown poorer in the last four years. Black unemployment is 14 percent – nearly twice the national average. This is unacceptable. Using taxes to punish the rich in reality punishes everyone, because we’re all interconnected.”

Just eliminate all taxes, and wait for the rich to help!

117 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:26:03pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

OT but man is it hot here in NoVa. Was freezing my ass of Saturday night at my kid brother’s LL game and now I have my fan on and my window open. Definitely feeling a hot summer coming.

Please send some here.
We had a -26C wind chill this morning. That isn’t right.

118 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:27:17pm

re: #116 jaunte

Just eliminate all taxes, and wait for the rich to help!

Yeah we’re all interconnected says the man who wants to gut social programs. Why is that raising taxes on the rich is “punishing the rich” but gutting social programs isn’t “punishing the poor.” Hell, I’d say gutting social programs is much more punishing since it effects people throughout class lines. Raising taxes on the rich is a small inconvenience especially the rates being proposed.

119 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:27:51pm

re: #117 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Please send some here.
We had a -26C wind chill this morning. That isn’t right.

And 7 cm of snow projected tomorrow. I told my boss I would be late tomorrow because of the accident that will happen on Circle because of the snow.

120 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:27:59pm

re: #117 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Please send some here.
We had a -26C wind chill this morning. That isn’t right.

Would if I could. That’s too damn cold for April or any month of the year.

121 jaunte  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:30:03pm

“Who needs to do homework, amiright kids?”

[Senator Paul] did stumble at one point when he couldn’t recall the name of the first African American elected to the Senate, and was prompted by students shouting “Edward Brooke.” At another point he asked whether they knew that the founders of the NAACP were Republicans. Groans could be head and one student shouted, “We know our history!”
politico.com

122 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:31:02pm

Hmm.

And in the other sports scandal that won’t die the Paterno defense has now opted for choosing incompetence over criminality. That Joe Paterno and his wife were ignorant to the possibility of predatory behavior is I guess possible — but that simply means that he should not have been leading a major university football program with that ignorance.

nbcsports.msnbc.com

I am sort of tracking this to see how soon until there is a serious clamor for Joe’s statue to go back up beside the stadium. There is already agitation for that by the more fanatical backers, but it’s too soon. But they’re taking steps in that direction by vetting candidates for the PSU Board of Trustees and advocating alumni vote for candidates on a list approved by the Paterno family.

(I see a lot of this stuff due to a FB poster who is a somewhat fanatical Joe Pa and PSU fan. I just haven’t considered the issue worth debating with him since it will not be a rational discussion.)

123 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:32:30pm

re: #119 Jolo5309

And 7 cm of snow projected tomorrow. I told my boss I would be late tomorrow because of the accident that will happen on Circle because of the snow.

We’ve been told 10-15cm on Saturday.

This really is the winter that wouldn’t quit.

Have you noticed the weird melt pattern on the south side of snow mounds where the sun melts the snow but the air temp keeps part of it frozen?

124 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:32:39pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

Yeah we’re all interconnected says the man who wants to gut social programs. Why is that raising taxes on the rich is “punishing the rich” but gutting social programs isn’t “punishing the poor.” Hell, I’d say gutting social programs is much more punishing since it effects people throughout class lines. Raising taxes on the rich is a small inconvenience especially the rates being proposed.

Blah blah “dignity of work” blah blah charity, not handouts blah blah government just gets in way blah blah the Gilded Age wasn’t that bad…

///

125 Single-handed sailor  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:33:08pm

re: #117 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Please send some here.
We had a -26C wind chill this morning. That isn’t right.

It’s 83 here in the sunny East Bay, we should be up around 90 by late afternoon. Sucks to be you.

126 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:33:19pm

re: #121 jaunte

“Who needs to do homework, amiright kids?”

It was actually Hiram Revels I believe. However, Ed Brooke would probably be too liberal for the Democrats let alone the Republicans today. Seriously, what the hell is Rand Paul’s problem. Howard’s a respected institution. The kids going there aren’t some kids looking to party through school. I am glad Paul went I guess because he really seems to have shown why his party is the party of bitter old bigots.

127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:34:20pm

re: #120 HappyWarrior

Would if I could. That’s too damn cold for April or any month of the year.

The average night time temp should be about -3C with a high somewhere around 7C. This year we’re lucky to get -2C as a high.

128 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:34:54pm

The explanation for this is that part of being an insecure white racist is assuming that black people are inferior, less than human and therefore absolutely stupid. After all the “blaming liberals” starts with “all their talk about rights is making our blacks unhappy, when everything was just fine before, say during slavery”.

129 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:34:55pm

re: #123 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

We’ve been told 10-15cm on Saturday.

This really is the winter that wouldn’t quit.

Have you noticed the weird melt pattern on the south side of snow mounds where the sun melts the snow but the air temp keeps part of it frozen?

Yeah, we are projected for 7 tomorrow and 7 the day after.

I have been engaged in a twitter discussion with my city councillor about my street, we quit driving our car because the snow is rutted so badly I was worried I was going to damage my car.

130 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:34:57pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

Yeah we’re all interconnected says the man who wants to gut social programs. Why is that raising taxes on the rich is “punishing the rich” but gutting social programs isn’t “punishing the poor.” Hell, I’d say gutting social programs is much more punishing since it effects people throughout class lines. Raising taxes on the rich is a small inconvenience especially the rates being proposed.

Yeah, that’s where things get weird and paleo-libertarian. Freedom includes the freedom to not make a living wage and not be able to afford anything.

So instead of Big Government being a part of your life, you’ll have to go hat in hand either to private institutions with wealth…corporations and churches…or to private individuals with wealth. So instead of Big Government you’ve got proxy government working through implicit social networks with no quality standards, no ethical standards, and little accountability.

131 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:35:34pm

re: #125 Single-handed sailor

It’s 83 here in the sunny East Bay, we should be up around 90 by late afternoon. Sucks to be you.

Shut Up you!

Frignstrasicfumarel%$^@@&^

132 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:37:34pm

re: #129 Jolo5309

Yeah, we are projected for 7 tomorrow and 7 the day after.

I have been engaged in a twitter discussion with my city councillor about my street, we quit driving our car because the snow is rutted so badly I was worried I was going to damage my car.

They drove a truck with a blade on it down our street and skimmed off about 2cms. The frikken snow was 20cm deep, so now it’s 18cm deep. O_o

133 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:38:56pm

re: #132 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

They drove a truck with a blade on it down our street and skimmed off about 2cms. The frikken snow was 20cm deep, so now it’s 18cm deep. O_o

They pretend my street does not exist.

134 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:39:11pm

re: #130 The Ghost of a Flea

Yeah, that’s where things get weird and paleo-libertarian. Freedom includes the freedom to not make a living wage and not be able to afford anything.

So instead of Big Government de facto being a part of your life, you’ll have to go hat in hand either to private institutions with wealth…corporations and churches…or to private individuals with wealth. So instead of Big Government you’ve got proxy government working through implicit social networks with no quality standards, no ethical standards, and little accountability.

Just like Jesus intended it.

135 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:40:41pm

re: #130 The Ghost of a Flea

Yeah, that’s where things get weird and paleo-libertarian. Freedom includes the freedom to not make a living wage and not be able to afford anything.

So instead of Big Government de facto being a part of your life, you’ll have to go hat in hand either to private institutions with wealth…corporations and churches…or to private individuals with wealth. So instead of Big Government you’ve got proxy government working through implicit social networks with no quality standards, no ethical standards, and little accountability.

Their idea of freedom seems to be the freedom to limit freedom to others, whether it’s telling a gay couple they can’t marry, a child of immigrants that they don’t deserve citizenship despite years of that being precedent, or telling a woman she can’t be trusted to make what is a constitutional decision, etc. That’s why I laugh when I hear conservatives claim they love freedom and liberals hate it.

136 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:41:47pm

re: #130 The Ghost of a Flea

Yeah, that’s where things get weird and paleo-libertarian. Freedom includes the freedom to not make a living wage and not be able to afford anything.

So instead of Big Government being a part of your life, you’ll have to go hat in hand either to private institutions with wealth…corporations and churches…or to private individuals with wealth. So instead of Big Government you’ve got proxy government working through implicit social networks with no quality standards, no ethical standards, and little accountability.

Sounds a wee bit like feudalism, doesn’t it? Local control, and your job if not in the estate of the nobility or being a cleric was to make bread for them so that they might protect you and give you largesse.

137 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:43:56pm

The 10 Most Racist Moments from a Song About Ending Racism

You’re going to have a tough time finding video of it, but that’s fine, because there was never an official video anyway and the album comes out today, so video evidence will soon start popping up again all over the place like replacement heroin dealers on The Wire.

I’m talking, of course, about “Accidental Racist,” a collaboration between country star Brad Paisley and rapper LL Cool J that somehow manages to set race relations, country music, rap music, the careers of both men, and just progress in general back by about 25 years.

If you think I’m employing hyperbole there, you’re probably right, but just barely. You can’t truly appreciate how terrible this idea really is until you’ve heard the song, or, barring that, at least taken a look at the batshit insane lyrics.

Or, if you’d like a more detailed rundown of the various hate crimes committed in this song, keep reading. Here are the 10 most racist moments from Brad Paisley and LL Cool J’s song about ending racism.

138 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:46:04pm

re: #133 Jolo5309

They pretend my street does not exist.

Alternate universe maybe?

Are you west of Idylwyld and south of 22nd?

139 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:50:45pm

re: #138 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Alternate universe maybe?

Are you west of Idylwyld and south of 22nd?

Yes, west of Circle and south of 22nd (that would be Fairhaven). So not in the alphabets but still not in the important parts of the city.

140 AlexRogan  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:55:50pm

re: #81 Sol Berdinowitz

Lemme phrase it this way: if you want to end the discussion on voter eligiblity, just issue a national voter ID card, free of charge to all eligible voters i.e., all US citizens. That would lay the matter to rest entirely.

That won’t stop those who are hellbent on disenfranchising a not-so-small chunk of American voters and you know it (or should); hence, the GOP schmucks who love to do stuff like shutter voting places in unfriendly districts (or cut their hours way back), short-staff said precincts, and otherwise make it a royal pain in the ass to register to vote and be able to do so.

141 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:58:36pm

re: #136 Feline Fearless Leader

Sounds a wee bit like feudalism, doesn’t it? Local control, and your job if not in the estate of the nobility or being a cleric was to make bread for them so that they might protect you and give you largesse.

As far as I can tell, at the root of libertarianism is the thought that a formal government is a terrible thing, but an implicit social structure that mimics the functions of a government but has no established social contract is a-okay.

142 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 12:59:43pm

re: #140 AlexRogan

That won’t stop those who are hellbent on disenfranchising a not-so-small chunk of American voters and you know it (or should); hence, the GOP schmucks who love to do stuff like shutter voting places in unfriendly districts (or cut their hours way back), short-staff said precincts, and otherwise make it a royal pain in the ass to register to vote and be able to do so.

It would end the question of eligibility, not the matter of access to polling places.

143 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:00:43pm

re: #136 Feline Fearless Leader

Sounds a wee bit like feudalism, doesn’t it? Local control, and your job if not in the estate of the nobility or being a cleric was to make bread for them so that they might protect you and give you largesse.

Or like Rome, as long as the conquered provinces were providing their share of taxes, the Emperor did not care how the local Proconsul was governing.

144 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:01:00pm

re: #140 AlexRogan

That won’t stop those who are hellbent on disenfranchising a not-so-small chunk of American voters and you know it (or should); hence, the GOP schmucks who love to do stuff like shutter voting places in unfriendly districts (or cut their hours way back), short-staff said precincts, and otherwise make it a royal pain in the ass to register to vote and be able to do so.

Yup.

There was also significant variation within states. Dense urban areas saw longer lines than less-populated territory. Race was a major factor. ”Viewed nationally, African Americans waited an average of 23 minutes to vote, compared to 12 minutes for whites; Hispanics waited 19 minutes,” Stewart writes.

145 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:01:27pm

re: #139 Jolo5309

Yes, west of Circle and south of 22nd (that would be Fairhaven). So not in the alphabets but still not in the important parts of the city.

Move your house north.

146 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:03:25pm

Todd Starnes Warns the Military Will Begin Monitoring Personnel who Support Religious Right Groups

Fox News “culture war” correspondent Todd Starnes chatted with Buster Wilson of the American Family Association yesterday about an email that a lieutenant colonel in Kentucky reportedly sent to a handful of subordinates encouraging them to stand up to anti-gay organizations. This obviously irked the AFA since they are on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s list of anti-gay hate groups.

Starnes asserted that if a military family subscribes to an AFA publication, the Pentagon “would be obligated at that point to monitor that family for suspicious activity.”

Wilson asked Starnes if individuals in the White House or the Pentagon who are “anti-pro-family groups, anti-Christian groups” were behind the emails.

“It appears that this administration is trying to secularize the United States military,” Starnes warned. Wilson added that the Obama administration is “dissing Christianity, traditional conservatism and what’s really American.”

Later, Starnes agreed with Wilson’s claim that the “liberally-controlled government” will use the power of the state to suppress hate groups.

147 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:05:07pm

re: #146 Kragar

Todd Starnes Warns the Military Will Begin Monitoring Personnel who Support Religious Right Groups

A secular military? Yegods, however will we survive?!

///

148 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:06:17pm

re: #137 Kragar

Wow…just…WTF?…Wow.

149 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:06:39pm
150 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:06:59pm

re: #141 The Ghost of a Flea

As far as I can tell, at the root of libertarianism is the though that a formal government is a terrible thing, but an implicit social structure that mimics the functions of a government but has no established social contract is a-okay.

Libertarianism still hasn’t worked out how to prevent “do what I want” from turning into others playing “take what I want”.

151 Kragar  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:08:07pm

Responsible Big Government!

North Dakota Requests $400,000 Budget Increase To Defend Its New Abortion Ban In Court

North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem has requested a $400,000 budget increase to defend any lawsuits that arise from the new abortion bans. On Wednesday, the state’s Senate Appropriations Committe voted unanimously to approve that request, which will now head to the full legislature for consideration.

Even the Republican lawmakers who define themselves as fiscal conservatives aren’t necessarily concerned about the potential costs of North Dakota’s abortion litigation. “We have a lot of important things to spend money on, but I didn’t give any consideration to the cost,” state Sen. Dwight Cook (R), who chairs the Senate Finance and Taxation Committee, said of the potential lawsuits over the new laws. “I don’t look at it from the financial side of things; I look at it from the life side of things,” Rep. Bette Grande (R), who introduced the heartbeat measure, explained.

152 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:08:21pm

re: #149 Lidane

I’m much more amused than I should be.

153 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:08:45pm

re: #149 Lidane

Yeah, i look forward to finding anti-gay people on the streets and beating them up just because they’re anti gay rights. Fucking assholes. I hate to violate Godwin here but they’re much more like the Nazis than the Jews that the Nazis oppressed.

154 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:09:21pm

re: #149 Lidane

When the anti-gay crowd is getting consigned to ghettos and then marched off to concentration camps with the ultimate goal of being wiped out, call me. Until they, getting the stink-eye for being a homophobe in public is not even close.

155 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:10:29pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

When the anti-gay crowd is getting consigned to ghettos and then marched off to concentration camps with the ultimate goal of being wiped out, call me. Until they, getting the stink-eye for being a homophobe in public is not even close.

It’s not even in the same galaxy. Really, these paranoid fuckers should read about what Jews in Nazi Germany went through before the Holocaust.

156 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:11:04pm

re: #151 Kragar

Responsible Big Government!

North Dakota Requests $400,000 Budget Increase To Defend Its New Abortion Ban In Court

$400,000 to take care of wanted children who actually have been born and need the basic necessities to get through daily life…or on defending your defacto abortion ban…decisions, decisions…

///

157 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:11:29pm

re: #145 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Move your house north.

No thanks, Fairhaven is superior to that swamp Confederation

158 Lidane  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:12:39pm
159 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:12:58pm

re: #158 Lidane

*facepalm*

160 AlexRogan  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:12:58pm

re: #142 Sol Berdinowitz

It would end the question of eligibility, not the matter of access to polling places.

There is no “question of eligibility”, other than those that some states have put on convicted felons; if you’re 18, a US citizen, and have registered to vote, you’re eligible to vote.

It’s just about that simple, all else being equal.

161 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:13:03pm

re: #145 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Move your house north.

re: #157 Jolo5309

No thanks, Fairhaven is superior to that swamp Confederation

Tonight on Fox;
When Canadians Attack.

;)

162 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:13:42pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

re: #157 Jolo5309

Tonight on Fox;
When Canadians Attack.

;)

Do they hold you down and force you to eat poutine?

//

163 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:14:46pm

re: #158 Lidane

More of that GOP outreach. This is especially hilarious considering one of McConnell’s own did the recording but yeah let’s have sympathy for the guy who belittled a potential opponent’s past suicide attempt and mocked her religious beliefs. Fuck off McConnell campaign.

164 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:15:02pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

re: #157 Jolo5309

Tonight on Fox;
When Canadians Attack.

;)

We’re going to get you eh!

165 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:15:28pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

Do they hold you down and force you to eat poutine?

//

Not here, it is all pyrogies and holopchi.

166 Bulworth  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:15:34pm

re: #116 jaunte

Wait…we’re all interconnected?

167 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:16:50pm

re: #165 Jolo5309

Not here, it is all pyrogies and holopchi.

Oh…well, I guess that’s not so bad…

168 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:17:45pm

re: #137 Kragar

The 10 Most Racist Moments from a Song About Ending Racism


I’m about half way through and I am so bemused.
LLCoolJay is apologizing for the North fighting the civil war and saying he can be cool with white racists, singing along with some racist complaining that people shouldn’t judge the south… … I don’t think I’ve seen this much stupid concentrated in one place since I looked at Michelle Bachmann’s head.

169 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:17:51pm

re: #165 Jolo5309

Not here, it is all pyrogies and holopchi.

Could be worse. Had pirohy for dinner last night. One of the benefits of having a Slovak grandparent. No haluski though.

170 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:19:03pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

When the anti-gay crowd is getting consigned to ghettos and then marched off to concentration camps with the ultimate goal of being wiped out, call me. Until they, getting the stink-eye for being a homophobe in public is not even close.

Can’t you recognize a slippery slope when you see one?

/

171 Jolo5309  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:19:15pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

Could be worse. Had pirohy for dinner last night. One of the benefits of having a Slovak grandparent. No haluski though.

I gave up carbs for Lent…

172 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:20:05pm

re: #160 AlexRogan

There is no “question of eligibility”, other than those that some states have put on convicted felons; if you’re 18, a US citizen, and have registered to vote, you’re eligible to vote.

It’s just about that simple, all else being equal.

no question of proving eligibilty, clearly and definitively, then

173 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:20:22pm

re: #157 Jolo5309

No thanks, Fairhaven is superior to that swamp Confederation

Further north.

174 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:20:53pm

re: #161 Varek Raith

re: #157 Jolo5309

Tonight on Fox;
When Canadians Attack.

;)

Stand back, the pucks they be flyin.

175 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:21:44pm

If you don’t judge my gold chains, I’ll forget the iron chains.
Holy fucking WHAT?
Fuck these assholes. Damn it the word “fuck” isn’t strong enough. …
I’ve never felt that anyone deserves a beating for a song before.

176 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:22:12pm

re: #168 stabby


I’m about half way through and I am so bemused.
LLCoolJay is apologizing for the North fighting the civil war and saying he can be cool with white racists, singing along with some racist complaining that people shouldn’t judge the south… … I don’t think I’ve seen this much stupid concentrated in one place since I looked at Michelle Bachmann’s head.

Did you read about him giving a shout-out to Lee? Man that song sounds so pathetic from reading the article. They both should be embarrassed for themselves. Not a fan of either really but dayum.

177 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:22:42pm

re: #165 Jolo5309

Not here, it is all pyrogies and holopchi.

My grandmother made the best perogies, and by all accounts but mine, the best cabbage rolls.

178 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:24:10pm

re: #176 HappyWarrior

dayam.. … …


179 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:25:28pm

re: #178 stabby

dayam.. … …

Yeah, here’s the genius lyric:
RIP Robert E. Lee but I’ve gotta thank Abraham Lincoln for freeing me, know what I mean?

180 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:26:36pm

Thank you Cool J. What a message “I’m a stupid shallow person, white racists are also stupid shallow people - so we can all love one another…”

“If I take enough drugs and blow out my brains drinking, then I can totally overlook slavery and fighting to keep my people down. So we’re all cool, cause I’m rich and I don’t give a fuck!”

181 stabby  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:28:25pm

Stupid white people everywhere thank you, you shit headed idiot.

182 chadu  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:46:01pm

re: #153 HappyWarrior

Yeah, i look forward to finding anti-gay people on the streets and beating them up just because they’re anti gay rights. Fucking assholes. I hate to violate Godwin here but they’re much more like the Nazis than the Jews that the Nazis oppressed.

The RWNJs are really starting to Godwin Hard.

(Heck, we might even be into Godwin Harder, the sequel.)

183 sagehen  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:46:33pm
“I think what happened during the Great Depression is that African-Americans understood that Republicans did champion citizenship and voting rights, but they became impatient, because they wanted economic emancipation,” Paul said.

close but no cigar.

What actually happened was in 1927, when the Mississippi was flooding (one of those long slow floods that take weeks to work its way downstream), President Coolidge sent his Secretary of Commerce (Herbert Hoover) to New Orleans to coordinate the Federal response.

Hoover’s choices of how to handle the event, the actions he took, turned every black voter in America into a Democrat (until then, they’d been monolithically Republican because Lincoln).

He had this great idea that they’d alleviate flooding in the city by blowing the levees a ways upstream and flooding a bunch of farmland instead; they chose a part of the river where only black people lived nearby, they set the charges for the middle of the night, gave no advance notice, and killed thousands of people while they slept.

When the survivors gathered on top of the few remaining bits of levee (surrounded by 10 feet of water on all sides, no supplies, nothing to swim to), Hoover’s federal boats came around and grabbed up the healthy men and press-ganged them into doing relief work in the white towns. For weeks. If the families they’d been dragged away from were to starve in the meantime, so be it.

This is also why the Great Migration, when so many southern rural blacks moved to Chicago and Detroit.

184 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:50:08pm

re: #183 sagehen

Document this and make it a page.

185 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 1:50:27pm

re: #183 sagehen

close but no cigar.

What actually happened was in 1927, when the Mississippi was flooding (one of those long slow floods that take weeks to work its way downstream), President Coolidge sent his Secretary of Commerce (Herbert Hoover) to New Orleans to coordinate the Federal response.

Hoover’s choices of how to handle the event, the actions he took, turned every black voter in America into a Democrat (until then, they’d been monolithically Republican because Lincoln).

He had this great idea that they’d alleviate flooding in the city by flowing the levees a ways upstream and flooding a bunch of farmland instead; they chose a part of the river where only black people lived nearby, they set the charges for the middle of the night, gave no advance notice, and killed thousands of people while they slept.

When the survivors gathered on top of the few remaining bits of levee (surrounded by 10 feet of water on all sides, no supplies, nothing to swim to), Hoover’s federal boats came around and grabbed up the healthy men and press-ganged them into doing relief work in the white towns. For weeks. If the families they’d been dragged away from were to starve in the meantime, so be it.

This is also why the Great Migration, when so many southern rural blacks moved to Chicago and Detroit.

[Embedded content]

Yeah a lot of people point to the Depression of when black voters started drifting to the Democrats and it’s true that FDR and the New Deal had a big role in that but Hoover’s handling of the Great Flood as commerce secretary played a big role. Hoover and I realize this was no fault of his but he was the candidate of the KKK due to the hostility directed at Al Smith for being a Roman Catholic.

186 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 2:10:02pm

re: #62 Vicious Babushka

HOW DARE U SAY I’M A RACIST WHEN U HATE BEN CARSON, HERMAN CAIN & ALLEN WEST!!11!!!

I don’t hate them because they’re black. I hate them because they are assholes. /// (mostly)

187 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 2:10:47pm

re: #171 Jolo5309

I gave up carbs for Lent…

I have fuel injection.

188 Tigger2005  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 2:50:49pm

The Republican Party of today taking credit for Republican achievements in civil rights of yesteryear is sort of like a modern-day ditch digger named Alexander taking credit for Alexander the Great’s conquests. Although that’s not a perfect analogy. Might be better if said Alexander the Ditch Digger was taking credit for Alexander the Great’s conquests while at the same time he was going back in time and warning all the kingdoms in Alexander’s path so they would be ready for him. In other words taking credit for the very achievements he was actively attempting to negate.

189 Flavia  Wed, Apr 10, 2013 9:33:48pm

re: #50 Targetpractice

I invoke the Pierce Five-Minute Rule where it concerns the Paul family, namely that they seem to make sense for exactly five minutes, but when 5:00:01 rolls around, they start babbling about auditing the Fed or the gold standard and your brain immediately begins looking for the nearest exit.

If so, they got the LaRouchies beat by 2 minutes. (I only know because I made the mistake of talking to one, once….)


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 64 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 165 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1