1 Apeman  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:11:27pm

Listening to the President castigate much of the knee-jerk media and folks who want to suspend the constitution in favour of blood lust is a nice nightcap to this horrible episode.

May those officers never buy another beer.

2 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:12:09pm

I tuned in just in time to hear him thank everybody.

3 geoffm33  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:12:44pm

Man, looks like PBO hasn’t slept in a couple days.

4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:12:48pm

And on cue, in the MMO I play, they are of course saying he should be sent to gitmo and arguing over who has killed more people in the name of religion.

5 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:13:40pm

re: #4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

And on cue, in the MMO I play, they are of course saying he should be sent to gitmo and arguing over who has killed more people in the name of religion.

I definitely don’t look to MMOs for intelligent social commentary.

6 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:13:59pm

re: #2 klys

I tuned in just in time to hear him thank everybody.

You can still watch it by by dragging the timeline marker…

7 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:15:01pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

You can still watch it by by dragging the timeline marker…

At least this way I get to skip the tweeting.

8 geoffm33  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:15:07pm

Not sure if this link will work, it’s a FB video:

facebook.com

9 darthstar  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:16:08pm
10 darthstar  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:16:47pm

re: #3 geoffm33

Man, looks like PBO hasn’t slept in a couple days.

You have some Elvis impersonator try to kill you and see how well you sleep.

11 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:17:27pm

re: #10 darthstar

You have some Elvis impersonator try to kill you and see how well you sleep.

Maybe he made the mistake of starting to listen to the police scanner last night.

//

12 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:18:15pm

re: #7 klys

At least this way I get to skip the tweeting.

that makes you a skip-tweet

13 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:19:09pm
14 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:20:00pm

re: #9 darthstar

He would have run the marathon fast enough to see them planting the bombs and caught them then!

15 geoffm33  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:20:21pm

Man these guys are fast with their meme making skillz:

Got You Asshole

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:21:47pm

Last Friday night I was thinking about how slow the news had been that week.

17 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:23:11pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

Last Friday night I was thinking about how slow the news had been that week.

Please don’t think that today.

18 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:23:18pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

Last Friday night I was thinking about how slow the news had been that week.

Last Friday night I was still in Berlin.

19 Randall Gross  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:23:35pm

It’s 9:23 p here, time to grab a book and maybe some brandy.

20 geoffm33  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:24:27pm

OK all, that’s a wrap for me. My eyeballs, sanity and heart need a rest. Thanks for being there today :)

21 calochortus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:24:29pm

Why is everyone so worried about whether the suspect has been Mirandized or not? (Specifically wingnuts who are horrified that if he has been it will mean he stop telling everything he knows.) Do you suppose a 19 year old who has been in this country for a decade is totally unaware of his right to a lawyer? Really?

22 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:25:11pm

The “public safety” exemption to the Miranda warning requirement lasts for only 48 hours, and then they have to give the warning.

23 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:28:05pm

Like Brevik, he’ll want to talk—getting an audience is probably part of the motive.

24 Hawaii69  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:29:26pm

I can never quite buy into “we will not be terrorized” statement from politicians. We have been, and will be. It has changed out lives in many ways since 2001.

I realize they have to play the role chief morale officer (“We’re all doomed” probably wouldn’t go over well), but these kinds of statement always sound to much like a hollow “America! F*ck Yeah!” to me.

Call me cynical (I won’t mind…I’m cynical)

25 AlexRogan  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:29:27pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

The “public safety” exemption to the Miranda warning requirement lasts for only 48 hours, and then they have to give the warning.

The RWNJs don’t seem to get (or ignore) that the kid need to be medically stable and lucid for the Miranda warning to hold up in court.

26 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:29:39pm

re: #18 jamesfirecat

Last Friday night I was still in Berlin.

Never made it up to Berlin. It was a pain to get a pass there in the early ‘80’s, so for me BRD = Bavaria & especially Rothenburg ob der Tauber or Munich depending on how long a pass I had… ;)

Hope you had a good time there.

27 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:31:45pm

re: #23 Decatur Deb

Like Brevik, he’ll want to talk—getting an audience is probably part of the motive.

I’m not getting the vibe from this kid, especially if those tweets really did come from him.

28 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:31:49pm

I’m glad the president talked about Texas.

29 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:31:51pm

re: #26 William Barnett-Lewis

Never made it up to Berlin. It was a pain to get a pass there in the early ‘80’s, so for me BRD = Bavaria & especially Rothenburg ab der Tauber or Munich depending on how long a pass I had… ;)

Hope you had a good time there.

Yeah we did.

30 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:32:55pm

re: #27 Four More Tears

I’m not getting the vibe from this kid, especially if those tweets really did come from him.

Plenty of time for it to play out, if he makes it through a couple days.

31 Kruk  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:33:16pm

re: #21 calochortus

Why is everyone so worried about whether the suspect has been Mirandized or not? (Specifically wingnuts who are horrified that if he has been it will mean he stop telling everything he knows.) Do you suppose a 19 year old who has been in this country for a decade is totally unaware of his right to a lawyer? Really?

There was a time when I loved watching Cold Case. One of the reasons I stopped was that half the perps could have walked away if they’d only STFU and asked for a lawyer…

32 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:33:40pm

Yeah I refuse. I’m a free man. I won’t take anything from anybody.

33 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:34:02pm

re: #28 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’m glad the president talked about Texas.

I hope we will end up seeing more discussion about what impact the explosion there should have on how we handle things relating to small chemical dealers such as that.

Not terribly likely, I think, but I can hope.

34 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:35:39pm

re: #33 klys

Or “Why zoning laws matter, for those that can’t grasp the obvious”.

35 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:36:52pm

re: #34 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Or “Why zoning laws matter, for those that can’t grasp the obvious”.

Well, yes. Even if they are as simple as don’t build residences and schools around industrial hazards.

36 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:37:26pm

re: #35 klys

Well, yes. Even if they are as simple as don’t build residences and schools around industrial hazards.

Why do you hate the free market?

37 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:38:38pm

re: #36 Four More Tears

Why do you hate the free market?

Because I am the evil socialist satin. Come to convert you all away from natural and good fibers.

//

38 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:38:58pm

re: #3 geoffm33

Man, looks like PBO hasn’t slept in a couple days.

at the rate it’s going his hair should be practically white before he leaves office

39 Kruk  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:39:17pm

re: #36 Four More Tears

Why do you hate the free market?

The free market is just like fire: a good servant, but a bad master.

40 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:39:22pm

Houston Texas has no zoning at all.

41 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:40:03pm

re: #37 klys

Because I am the evil socialist satin. Come to convert you all away from natural and good fibers.

//

all hail marx and linen

42 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:40:50pm

Article about Houston & no zoning:

businessweek.com

43 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:41:08pm

re: #36 Four More Tears

Why do you hate the free market?

As a more serious and less sarcastic response, I don’t necessarily have issue with a lack of zoning provided there are upfront disclosure of all applicable risks for a given area at the point of building or sale. I just don’t believe that applied here, and whether that was through ignorance or negligence remains to be seen.

44 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:43:48pm
45 Kruk  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:43:51pm

re: #41 engineer cat

all hail marx and linen

The people will soon cotton on…

46 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:43:52pm

re: #43 klys

As a more serious and less sarcastic response, I don’t necessarily have issue with a lack of zoning provided there are upfront disclosure of all applicable risks for a given area at the point of building or sale. I just don’t believe that applied here, and whether that was through ignorance or negligence remains to be seen.

I have a problem with it, because cops, emts, firefighters, hell, even health inspectors don’t get to choose.

47 Apeman  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:44:40pm

re: #41 engineer cat

all hail marx and linen

It’s on every corner.

48 Ojoe  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:45:41pm

If you have a linen closet in the bathroom it’s the


John Linen Closet


BBL

49 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:46:15pm

re: #46 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I have a problem with it, because cops, emts, firefighters, hell, even health inspectors don’t get to choose.

But to some extent, they will respond whether it is an industrial area versus a residential one. I don’t necessarily see how this exacerbates the hazards that they face from the presence of such things either way, but there’s probably something I’m not thinking of because I’m exhausted. Please feel free to point it out.

50 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:47:01pm

re: #43 klys

As a more serious and less sarcastic response, I don’t necessarily have issue with a lack of zoning provided there are upfront disclosure of all applicable risks for a given area at the point of building or sale. I just don’t believe that applied here, and whether that was through ignorance or negligence remains to be seen.

This is a quintessentially libertarian response. I am vaguely knowledgable about chemistry, enough so that I know I don’t want to live next to an ammonium nitrate plant. Most people aren’t, and many cannot be. On the other hand, I am not knowledgable about biology, or crime, or flood planes. Society (which in this case means government) has a responsibility to conduct at least a very basic analysis of these threats and prevent me from living in dangerous regions. That’s why I belong to society in the first place; so that I can contribute knowledge and understanding in my strong areas and collect knowledge and understanding (by way of reasonable zoning) in my weak areas.

51 calochortus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:47:04pm

re: #37 klys

Because I am the evil socialist satin. Come to convert you all away from natural and good fibers.

//

What about silk satin? All natural! And seductive…

52 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:47:43pm

Lindsey Graham is doubling down on his un-American bullshit. This is what you have to do if you want the Tea Party vote.

53 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:48:23pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

Lindsey Graham is doubling down on his un-American bullshit. This is what you have to do if you want the Tea Party vote.

The ZOMG Law of War? Set down the fucking bong, Lindsay.

54 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:49:58pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

Lindsey is one tough hombre./

55 sagehen  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:50:35pm

re: #41 engineer cat

all hail marx and linen

Image: Hcybitpaowynaaa.jpg

56 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:50:56pm

Lindsey Graham you are supposed to read Sun Tzu not inhale or sniff it.

57 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:52:35pm

I’m picturing President Obama scrolling through his Twitter feed, scanning this, and saying “Holy shit, we can do this???

58 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:52:47pm

re: #55 sagehen

Image: Hcybitpaowynaaa.jpg

useta love them guys back in hi skool

59 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:52:54pm

re: #55 sagehen

Image: Hcybitpaowynaaa.jpg

“We’re tired man. Been shooting Reds and Yellows all day.”

60 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:53:16pm

re: #50 erik_t

This is a quintessentially libertarian response. I am vaguely knowledgable about chemistry, enough so that I know I don’t want to live next to an ammonium nitrate plant. Most people aren’t, and many cannot be. On the other hand, I am not knowledgable about biology, or crime, or flood planes. Society (which in this case means government) has a responsibility to conduct at least a very basic analysis of these threats and prevent me from living in dangerous regions. That’s why I belong to society in the first place; so that I can contribute knowledge and understanding in my strong areas and collect knowledge and understanding (by way of reasonable zoning) in my weak areas.

Fair enough. I don’t have particularly strong feelings that there should be no zoning and at the very least I think the situation here was untenable.

Sorry, not processing stuff terribly quickly at this point.

(Side note, this was anhydrous ammonia, not ammonium nitrate.)

61 bratwurst  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:53:43pm

Anyone in the mood for some concern trolling?

62 Four More Tears  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:54:59pm

re: #61 bratwurst

Anyone in the mood for some concern trolling?

You’ve gotta be fucking kidding me…

63 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:55:16pm

re: #49 klys

But to some extent, they will respond whether it is an industrial area versus a residential one. I don’t necessarily see how this exacerbates the hazards that they face from the presence of such things either way, but there’s probably something I’m not thinking of because I’m exhausted. Please feel free to point it out.

If you let people build houses right near the fertilizer factor, a lot more cops and firefighters are going to die trying to save them when the fertilizer factory catches on fire and explodes and sets the neighborhood on fire.

64 philosophus invidius  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 7:58:58pm
65 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:00:13pm

candidate for least informative movie review of the week

This impressively and aggressively filmed rendering of what is, in the end, a bland and confusing story has its moments — mostly thanks to director Danny Boyle’s virtuosity — but the movie doesn’t wear well. By the finish, half the audience won’t quite be able to tell what is going on, and few will care

66 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:00:28pm

re: #64 philosophus invidius

Someone should tweet that to Glenn. / half kidding.

67 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:01:05pm

re: #63 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

If you let people build houses right near the fertilizer factor, a lot more cops and firefighters are going to die trying to save them when the fertilizer factory catches on fire and explodes and sets the neighborhood on fire.

Fair enough.

I’m interested in how well the hazard here was identified - clearly it doesn’t seem to be well on the local level, but what about state? Federal? Not just this particular setting (I know plant is the term that had been used but they seem to have been more of a dealer) but for all locations of this type. If this wasn’t well identified, where else is at risk? If it was well identified at some level, well, where did this chain of information fall apart? School officials have certainly indicated they had no idea of the level of hazard the plant presented. Did the fire department know? The plant owners?

Lots of questions, few answers yet.

68 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:01:41pm

miranda rights

it’s good to know that nobody can stop me from wearing fruit in my hat

69 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:01:48pm

re: #61 bratwurst

Glenn does care. In at least 46 personalities and 84 sub personalities and 4 or 5 post depressive manic dream scenarios. “Yes I do. No, I don’t. Yes you do. Who said that?!? Hey I do! Who the fuck are you? Me? I’m him, over there, no over THERE. Yo! Where did Sally go Right here!”

70 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:02:42pm

re: #61 bratwurst

Anyone in the mood for some concern trolling?

Glenn is doing that good ol’ right wing inversion thing. They fall for it every time.

71 jaunte  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:03:19pm

Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic on the Boston terrorist attack

“…As more information on the origin of the alleged perpetrators is coming to light, I am concerned to note in the social media a most unfortunate misunderstanding in this respect. The Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities - the Czech Republic is a Central European country; Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation….”

72 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:05:34pm

re: #71 jaunte

Yep. And South America is below the Mason Dixon line.

73 IngisKahn  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:06:15pm

CNN reporters admitting to interfering with the operation.

74 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:06:20pm

re: #72 Blue Point

Very far below the line.

75 jaunte  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:06:35pm

re: #72 Blue Point

Washington DC, that town in the middle east.

76 calochortus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:06:46pm

It has been and eventful day. Here’s to a quiet week ahead.
Time for a good book.

77 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:07:44pm

re: #75 jaunte

Washington DC, that town in the middle east.

And that Muslim nation Injia.

78 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:07:56pm

The mess in TX killed many more people people than this dickwad. We should be focusing on that and relegate this guy to the same corner of obscurity as Kim Jong Un.

79 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:08:21pm

re: #75 jaunte

Washington DC, that town in the middle east.

and ‘arab’ countries like iran and afghanistan

80 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:08:31pm

re: #73 IngisKahn

CNN reporters admitting to interfering with the operation.

Impossible. They have no reporters.

81 EXCLUSIVE!  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:11:58pm

Tomorrow is another day. Night all. Glad the second creep is caught.

82 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:13:17pm

After it became known that the older brother had died in a shootout with police, Ann Coulter tweeted: “It’s too bad Suspect # 1 won’t be able to be legalized by Marco Rubio, now.”

hmmm

83 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:13:33pm

News: the suspect is in serious condition. He may still die.

84 Kurt Princeton  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:16:22pm

re: #1 Apeman

Listening to the President castigate much of the knee-jerk media and folks who want to suspend the constitution in favour of blood lust is a nice nightcap to this horrible episode.

Remember the bloodlust against gun owners a month or so ago?

Remember the arrest without bail of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula?

Remember Fast and Furious?

No?

85 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:17:14pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

Just go away.

86 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:18:09pm

re: #85 klys

Just go away.

99.9% sure it’s some creep from the stalker blog.

87 dragonath  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:19:19pm

Remember the Maine!

88 Coracle  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:21:49pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

Remember the bloodlust against gun owners a month or so ago?

I don’t think you can expect other people to remember your own deluded fever dreams. That’s not the way it works.

89 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:22:46pm

re: #87 dragonath

Remember the Maine!

Remember the Titans!

90 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:23:19pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

no

91 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:23:34pm

The idiocy. It burns.

92 122 Year Old Obama  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:24:04pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

No, I tend not to remember things that didn’t happen.

93 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:25:12pm

When I saw the FBI photos last night I posted this here in a thread. weird.

94 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:25:36pm

As an observation to Charles the Great and Powerful, I won’t miss this one when it’s flushed. Value added is the null set.

95 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:25:43pm

bloodlust

it would seem some people overreact to criticism just a tad

96 Lidane  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:28:08pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

I’m currently thousands of feet in the air on a plane and I’m still more grounded in reality than you are.

97 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:28:24pm

re: #91 Charles Johnson

The idiocy. It burns.

And to think, it completely forgot to mention

BENGHAZI!!1!!11!!ty

So even as a talking-point-regurgitating troll, it fails.

98 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:29:15pm

re: #96 Lidane

I’m currently thousands of feet in the air on a plane and I’m still more grounded in reality than you are.

On the totally awesome side, you can now post to the Internet from thousands of feet in the air. Which I think is completely awesome.

99 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:30:41pm

re: #98 klys

On the totally awesome side, you can now post to the Internet from thousands of feet in the air. Which I think is completely awesome.

We live in the fucking future.

Remember when you turned on a flashlight and then thought about turning it off immediately because the batteries were going to run out?

100 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:31:30pm

re: #99 erik_t

We live in the fucking future.

Remember when you turned on a flashlight and then thought about turning it off immediately because the batteries were going to run out?

I just want the utopia future already.

Also, if the Kindle Paperwhite had existed when I was a kid I never would have slept. Ever.

101 sagehen  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:32:32pm

re: #99 erik_t

We live in the fucking future.

Remember when you turned on a flashlight and then thought about turning it off immediately because the batteries were going to run out?

Remember when if you wanted to watch a TV show, you had to be sitting in front of a TV at a specific day and time? If you missed it… maybe you’d get another chance next summer. Possibly.

102 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:32:34pm

re: #100 klys

I just want the utopia future already.

Also, if the Kindle Paperwhite had existed when I was a kid I never would have slept. Ever.

I’m too old to really get e-readers and tablets and whatnot and damnit get off my lawn, but as tech in a vacuum they’re super duper cool.

103 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:34:00pm

re: #102 erik_t

I’m too old to really get e-readers and tablets and whatnot and damnit get off my lawn, but as tech in a vacuum they’re super duper cool.

I read too fast. Travel as a kid sucked because I was limited to what books I could carry in one backpack. Now I can have 2000 books in my purse. I am all over this.

104 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:34:10pm

Some perspective. The death toll, injuries and property damage from the fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas is even higher that the terrorist attack in Boston. The explosion in Texas was caused by a greedy and reckless factory owner who ignored NFPA fire protection codes and didn’t enforce workplace safety. Those deaths were not the result of some kind of unforeseen accident. It was criminal negligence, no different that getting in your car stone drunk and driving home and causing a fatal accident.

I hope America has 1% of the anger and resolve to bring the criminals responsible for the senseless deaths in West, Texas to justice as was showed for what happened in Boston.

105 HoosierHoops  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:36:18pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

Remember the bloodlust against gun owners a month or so ago?

Remember the arrest without bail of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula?

Remember Fast and Furious?

No?

there was no blood lust against gun owners..America needs to better regulate who owns a gun. You characterize that as blood lust.
You know if anybody commits a murder or a serious national crime..You don’t get bail.. You should know that.
I remember Fast and furious.. A failed policy started by the Bush Admin.
So what the hell is your point?
Are you unable to understand complex geo-political-religious issues facing our country or are you just spouting talking points from Beck or Rush?

106 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:36:55pm

re: #104 Mich-again

Source on that? I’m trying to read up about where the errors were on risk/hazard assessment.

107 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:37:08pm

re: #101 sagehen

Remember when if you wanted to watch a TV show, you had to be sitting in front of a TV at a specific day and time? If you missed it… maybe you’d get another chance next summer. Possibly.

the hi-tek hit of my early teen years was a radio that you could actually carry around in your pocket

if you had a really big pocket

108 engineer cat  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:39:10pm

ten years from now we will remember how those old iphones had such bad reception some places and the screen was always the same size

109 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:39:48pm

re: #104 Mich-again

Some perspective. The death toll, injuries and property damage from the fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas is even higher that the terrorist attack in Boston. The explosion in Texas was caused by a greedy and reckless factory owner who ignored NFPA fire protection codes and didn’t enforce workplace safety. Those deaths were not the result of some kind of unforeseen accident. It was criminal negligence, no different that getting in your car stone drunk and driving home and causing a fatal accident.

I hope America has 1% of the anger and resolve to bring the criminals responsible for the senseless deaths in West, Texas to justice as was showed for what happened in Boston.

And because of attempts to do away with such regulations, first by swiss-cheesing them with loopholes and eventually just abolishing them by assuring consumers that corporations can be trusted to self-regulate in the interest of their customers, I won’t be surprised in the least if the company manages to skip out on most of the real damage or simply pays a paltry fine if it promises to make a donation to victims relief funds.

110 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:40:17pm

I think it’s good to let the occasional wingnut post here, just to keep the lizards on their toes, but I admit I’m reaching the end of my patience with this moron.

111 jaunte  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:44:53pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

His having to pretend to be interested in that scammer Nakoula Basseley Nakoula is its own kind of subtle punishment.

112 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:45:53pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

I think it’s good to let the occasional wingnut post here, just to keep the lizards on their toes, but I admit I’m reaching the end of my patience with this moron.

He’s still trying.

113 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:46:06pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

I think it’s good to let the occasional wingnut post here, just to keep the lizards on their toes, but I admit I’m reaching the end of my patience with this moron.

I’m reclined on my ass and having no real trouble. If I were more relaxed in swatting this troll, I’d be in a coma.

114 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:47:08pm

re: #106 klys

Source on that? I’m trying to read up about where the errors were on risk/hazard assessment.

Boy this was really hard to find. first link in search. Texas plant required sprinklers, other safety measures to operate, feds told none installed

I manage fire protection system design and installation projects for a large company. The fact that this plant had no sprinklers is unbelievable to me. All accidents are preventable. These dumbasses didn’t even try to prevent them.

115 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:47:33pm

re: #86 Interesting Times

99.9% sure it’s some creep from the stalker blog.

Probably.

He won’t be around any more.

116 Destro  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:47:56pm

re: #104 Mich-again

Some perspective. The death toll, injuries and property damage from the fertilizer plant explosion in West, Texas is even higher that the terrorist attack in Boston. The explosion in Texas was caused by a greedy and reckless factory owner who ignored NFPA fire protection codes and didn’t enforce workplace safety. Those deaths were not the result of some kind of unforeseen accident. It was criminal negligence, no different that getting in your car stone drunk and driving home and causing a fatal accident.

I hope America has 1% of the anger and resolve to bring the criminals responsible for the senseless deaths in West, Texas to justice as was showed for what happened in Boston.

All great points. But I will add 2 young Chechens armed with rifles and guns anyone can buy at a gun show legally and home made pipe bombs managed to terrorize and bring to a halt (costing a lot of money in lost commerce and from deaths and injuries) daily life in a major American city.

I am hoping ant-American terrorists (domestic or otherwise) are too dumb to notice this but I am sure they did notice.

117 HoosierHoops  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:48:05pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

I think it’s good to let the occasional wingnut post here, just to keep the lizards on their toes, but I admit I’m reaching the end of my patience with this moron.

I think it’s important to read wingnuts POV as long as they are Fair, honest and lucid arguments concerning current events.
He seems to lack any of those in his posts.
He brings nothing to the table.

118 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:48:05pm
Youtube Video
119 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:49:52pm

Just to clarify, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula violated the terms of his probation.

When you have been accused of a violation, you can be arrested and held for a few days until the Motion for Probation Revocation is filed. Once it is filed, you have the right to go before a judge and argue about getting bail until you get your hearing to contest any alleged violations. The Bottom Line: It’s hard to get bail when you have been accused of a probation violation. The burden is on you to prove to the court why you should get out pending your hearing, and often judges will make you sit in jail while you are waiting to get your hearing to contest any alleged violations.

120 Olsonist  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:50:39pm

Richard said the FBI took two men and a woman into custody. “They appeared to be either fellow college students or fellow residents,” he said.

bostonglobe.com

If you annoy the cops doing their job, you might get arrested but not by the FBI.

121 Charles Johnson  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:52:04pm
122 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:53:06pm

re: #114 Mich-again

Boy this was really hard to find. first link in search. Texas plant required sprinklers, other safety measures to operate, feds told none installed

I manage fire protection system design and installation projects for a large company. The fact that this plant had no sprinklers is unbelievable to me. All accidents are preventable. These dumbasses didn’t even try to prevent them.

I’m sorry. It’s been a long day, I was fairly certain I had read elsewhere that they had installed a sprinkler system at some point. I wrote a page on this yesterday so I’d done some fairly extensive searching then.

123 kirkspencer  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 8:59:41pm

re: #108 engineer cat

ten years from now we will remember how those old iphones had such bad reception some places and the screen was always the same size

heh. Remember payphones? Or if you’re old enough, remember using a party line?

124 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:02:47pm

re: #122 klys

How many times have we heard a pro-business GOP politician griping about how we need to get rid of all the unnecessary job-killing Government regulations that thwart economic growth? A sprinkler system for that factory might have costed a million dollars or so. The damages from the blast will dwarf that number.

125 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:03:42pm

re: #124 Mich-again

How many times have we heard a pro-business GOP politician griping about how we need to get rid of all the unnecessary job-killing Government regulations that thwart economic growth? A sprinkler system for that factory might have costed a million dollars or so. The damages from the blast will dwarf that number.

Agreed completely. This was a tragedy that didn’t need to happen. You get no argument from me on this at all.

126 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:04:27pm

re: #9 darthstar

What’s with the Paul Ryan Meme?

127 Joanne  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:04:30pm

That was the most riveting six hour drive in the history of driving. Holy. Shit!

Thank you Sirius!

Catching up on video now.

Thanks everyone for last night’s 411-fest.

128 palomino  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:05:38pm

re: #84 Kurt Princeton

Remember the bloodlust against gun owners a month or so ago?

Remember the arrest without bail of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula?

Remember Fast and Furious?

No?

Do you even know what the word bloodlust means? There was no call to harm gun owners, so you’re just wrong on that one. Maybe you’re a paranoiac?

Your hero Nakoula is a convicted felon who did time for identity theft and bank fraud, among other things. Knock yourself out defending the acts of a guy like that.

The Fast and Furious reference is so random and irrelevant it seems like you must have lost your place in your book of tried and true anti-Obama slogans. (“Bill Ayers!” “Fast and Furious!” “Solyndra!”) It’s not even relevant here, and like the “Free Cell Phones for Black People!”, Fast and Furious started under a previous administration, a Republican one.

Speaking of cell phones, if you’ve got one, try turning it sideways and shoving it straight up your ass, you unbelievably moronic America-hating douchebag shithead.

129 jaunte  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:06:55pm

re: #124 Mich-again

Rick Perry:

“We’re calling today on the president of the United States to put a moratorium on regulations across this country, because his regulations, his EPA regulations are killing jobs all across America.”

Youtube Video
130 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:07:26pm

re: #125 klys

Agreed completely. This was a tragedy that didn’t need to happen. You get no argument from me on this at all.

Yeah, I think there should be criminal charges filed against the owners of the factory and the local government officials who turned a blind eye to the danger. Fuck them and their “oh it was an accident” bullshit.

131 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:07:34pm

re: #127 Joanne

That was the most riveting six hour drive in the history of driving. Holy. Shit!

Thank you Sirius!

Catching up on video now.

Thanks everyone for last night’s 411-fest.

This is what I get for taking a nap, I missed the conclusion to this weird and wild week. I’m gonna be playing catch-up for awhile myself.

132 palomino  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:07:47pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

What’s with the Paul Ryan Meme?

The marathon connection. Don’t you remember when Ryan “misremembered” his marathon time, conveniently making himself out to be over an hour faster than he actually was.

133 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:09:15pm

re: #132 palomino

The marathon connection. Don’t you remember when Ryan “misremembered” his marathon time, conveniently making himself out to be over an hour faster than he actually was.

I’ll repost: any runner who has raced even a little remembers their PRs within a minute or so. He was a willful filthy fucking liar.

Weird bizarro-world credit to Sarah Palin, of all people, who would never lie about something so important (srsly) as a marathon time.

134 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:09:22pm

re: #128 palomino

You’re a bit late, Palomino. Charles already clubbed that troll. Someone else will have to grill it, though. I’m too worn out.

135 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:10:34pm

re: #130 Mich-again

Yeah, I think there should be criminal charges filed against the owners of the factory and the local government officials who turned a blind eye to the danger. Fuck them and their “oh it was an accident” bullshit.

I really am sorry if my request for a source came across as harsh; I really didn’t intend for it to and there’s times when text sucks as a communication medium.

It caught my attention at first because you say fertilizer explosion and everyone thinks ammonium nitrate and here it was anhydrous ammonia, so I was curious about other stuff and to what level the hazard was understood. It’s sounding more and more like regulations were violated, even the lax regulations in TX. It should be criminal charges, not a civil fine. I wish I had faith it would be.

136 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:10:40pm

re: #132 palomino

The marathon connection. Don’t you remember when Ryan “misremembered” his marathon time, conveniently making himself out to be over an hour faster than he actually was.

No, I forgot about that months ago.

137 AlexRogan  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:10:42pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

You’re a bit late, Palomino. Charles already clubbed that troll. Someone else will have to grill it, though. I’m too worn out.

The LGF version of beating a dead horse?

/

138 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:11:08pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

How ya doing, buddy?

139 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:14:45pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

Just hope the little punk does survive his injuries, so that we can finally get some answers as to what motivated all this shit. I know some don’t care the reasoning, just want him to pay, but I think at this point we deserve to know at least why he felt 3 people needed to die and dozens more needed to bear the scars of that day for the rest of their lives.

140 jaunte  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:15:18pm
141 Joanne  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:17:02pm

re: #64 philosophus invidius

WEWS NewsChannel5 @WEWS

US Attorney says no Miranda Rights in situations of national security, suspect taken to the hospital #boston
8:51 PM - 19 Apr 2013

Best call letters ever.

142 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:17:25pm

re: #138 prairiefire

How ya doing, buddy?

The Des Plaines River has crested and my condo building is still OK and still has power. But at present it and a small number of other buildings are effectively islands, impossible to approach on foot. The water is only slightly higher than 2008, but both the water and the air are far colder. The only way I could have gone home tonight is if someone got me there in a DUKW.

143 alpuz  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:17:36pm

re: #140 jaunte

I’ve got the feeling he’s not alone.

144 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:20:50pm

re: #140 jaunte

Joe College is almost never a friend of Johnny Law. But as Kipling wrote:

“God and the Soldier we adore
In times of Danger, not before.”

145 jaunte  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:23:00pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

It’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

146 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:24:18pm

re: #135 klys

Its cool, don’t think twice .. We’ll all eventually learn what exactly caused the fire and then later the big explosion, but regardless, safety was obviously not a priority there. With the chemicals they were storing and handling, that’s inexcusable.

147 bws58  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:25:19pm

re: #100 klys

I just want the utopia future already.

Also, if the Kindle Paperwhite had existed when I was a kid I never would have slept. Ever.

I had one when I was a kid, only it was called a flashlight under the blanket with my book.

I flashed back to that when I was devouring the Hunger Games series a few weeks ago

148 klys  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:26:41pm

re: #147 bws58

I had one when I was a kid, only it was called a flashlight under the blanket with my book.

I flashed back to that when I was devouring the Hunger Games series a few weeks ago

Oh, I did that, flashlight, hall light, creeping to the top of the stairs to read by the light from downstairs, hiding in the bathroom to turn the light on there…

149 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:34:10pm

re: #145 jaunte

It’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

When I was in, that was never the part that bothered me. I’d taken the President’s dollar, after all. No, the part that has always pissed me off were the ones who, after refusing to serve, refuse to give comfort (VA, etc) either to those who did.

With that, good night.

150 SpaceJesus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:40:55pm

the president looked pretty tired right there

151 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:46:42pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

Ah, crap. Damn Mississippi.

152 KingKenrod  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:46:50pm

re: #130 Mich-again

Yeah, I think there should be criminal charges filed against the owners of the factory and the local government officials who turned a blind eye to the danger. Fuck them and their “oh it was an accident” bullshit.

Is there some reason you don’t want the ATF to finish their investigation first? I just want to wait until it’s done before tossing people in jail.

And about sprinklers - we don’t know if the fire started outdoors, or in a place where another type of fire suppression system was used instead of water. Water can be dangerous around certain fires, I’m sure you know this.

When I was younger I worked on a freight dock. One of the workers set a gasoline tanker on fire because he failed to secure a hose properly, letting it drag on the ground and create sparks. The entire 5000 gallon tanker went up in a blaze of glory - if it had been near some other hazardous freight it could have killed us all.

I work for a company that is absolutely obsessed with safety compliance. Yet some employees still don’t give a shit and make careless mistakes.

153 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:47:31pm

re: #149 William Barnett-Lewis

When I was in, that was never the part that bothered me. I’d taken the President’s dollar, after all. No, the part that has always pissed me off were the ones who, after refusing to serve, refuse to give comfort (VA, etc) either to those who did.

With that, good night.

“An’ it’s ‘Tommy this’ an’ ‘Tommy that’,
and everything you please.
But Tommy ain’t no bloomin’ fool,
You bet that Tommy sees!”

Kipling again.

154 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:48:40pm

re: #147 bws58

Yes, 20-30 years earlier for me “Wrinkle In Time”, “The Lion, The Witch, & The Wardrobe”, etc.

155 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:50:29pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

“An’ it’s ‘Tommy this’ an’ ‘Tommy that’,
and everything you please.
But Tommy ain’t no bloomin’ fool,
You bet that Tommy sees!”

Kipling again.

Kipling is so bleak.

156 sagehen  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:50:31pm

Which makes you old enough to remember busy signals and test patterns.
re: #147 bws58

I had one when I was a kid, only it was called a flashlight under the blanket with my book.

I flashed back to that when I was devouring the Hunger Games series a few weeks ago

re: #147 bws58

I had one when I was a kid, only it was called a flashlight under the blanket with my book.

I flashed back to that when I was devouring the Hunger Games series a few weeks ago

I breezed through that trilogy in one sitting; missed sleep, skipped the gym, just Could. Not. Put. It. Down. (sort of embarassing that I’d get that way about a book intended for adolescents, but… oh, never mind, I have no shame. And it was awesome to imagine the 2012 Republican Primaries as the Arena. John Huntsman was Rue. Newt was Clover.)

157 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:54:50pm

re: #152 KingKenrod

I work for a company that is absolutely obsessed with safety compliance. Yet some employees still don’t give a shit and make careless mistakes.

If your company was really obsessed with safety compliance those would be ex-employees.

158 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 9:56:44pm

re: #155 prairiefire

Kipling is so bleak.

As a man he was anything but gloomy, but he often wrote about military life and war. He also did so without much bullshit. That meant that much his work had to deal with unhappy matters, but he did help raise awareness among the British public of what soldiering and war really were, and generations of soldiers ever since have found him as an artist who understood them as they are, rather than as stereotypes.

159 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:00:10pm

re: #156 sagehen

Which makes you old enough to remember busy signals and test patterns.


re: #147 bws58

I breezed through that trilogy in one sitting; missed sleep, skipped the gym, just Could. Not. Put. It. Down. (sort of embarassing that I’d get that way about a book intended for adolescents, but… oh, never mind, I have no shame. And it was awesome to imagine the 2012 Republican Primaries as the Arena. John Huntsman was Rue. Newt was Clover.)

With Mitt Romney as the kid from District 5 who the volunteer Tribute alliance protects until Katniss outwits his IED trap, whereupon he is promptly killed.

160 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:04:34pm

re: #117 HoosierHoops

I think it’s important to read wingnuts POV as long as they are Fair, honest and lucid arguments concerning current events.
He seems to lack any of those in his posts.
He brings nothing to the table.

If you’re fair, honest and lucid you’re not a wingnut.

NPR had a long speech and questions with some horrible wingnut that I couldn’t bear to listen to. Every 10 minutes while I was driving I’d switch back, listen to a bunch of sentences where every word was 10 lies then change back to something tolerable.

What a different world these people live in. Did you know that in wingnut-land GWB raised taxes? I also switched turned him off as he was explaining that poor people should be denied medical care so that they won’t be poor anymore…

161 sagehen  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:05:11pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

As a man he was anything but gloomy, but he often wrote about military life and war. He also did so without much bullshit. That meant that much his work had to deal with unhappy matters, but he did help raise awareness among the British public of what soldiering and war really were, and generations of soldiers ever since have found him as an artist who understood them as they are, rather than as stereotypes.

He didn’t start out gloomy, but losing his son just sucked the heart right out of him. Nothing but misery after that.

“If any wonder why we died
Tell them, because our fathers lied.”

162 bubba zanetti  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:07:01pm

Too soon?

(not mine but I LOLed)

163 bratwurst  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:09:04pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

The Des Plaines River has crested and my condo building is still OK and still has power. But at present it and a small number of other buildings are effectively islands, impossible to approach on foot. The water is only slightly higher than 2008, but both the water and the air are far colder. The only way I could have gone home tonight is if someone got me there in a DUKW.

As you thought, no problem crossing the Miner Bridge today and getting to my destination in Glenview. Getting back was a lot more of a struggle though…by that time it was after 3 the traffic was HEAVY on the few streets that were open. I feel fortunate to have been able to make the trip! Hope you get back home soon yourself.

164 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:09:25pm

re: #139 Targetpractice

Just hope the little punk does survive his injuries, so that we can finally get some answers as to what motivated all this shit. I know some don’t care the reasoning, just want him to pay, but I think at this point we deserve to know at least why he felt 3 people needed to die and dozens more needed to bear the scars of that day for the rest of their lives.

I don’t need to hear some shithead murderer give his excuses for being a shithead. Happy if he dies.

165 palomino  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:09:55pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

You’re a bit late, Palomino. Charles already clubbed that troll. Someone else will have to grill it, though. I’m too worn out.

Damn, I always miss the best part. My timing sucks.

166 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:10:54pm

We have news of atrocities all over the world in our news now if we care to pay attention. We don’t need an explanation for one more.

167 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:13:28pm

re: #164 stabby

I don’t need to hear some shithead murderer give his excuses for being a shithead. Happy if he dies.

I agree. I seriously doubt that little brother has any actionable intelligence and I don’t really care to hear his sob story.

168 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:14:18pm

One point though, interview on the radio with one of the kid’s classmates who said that he was warm, friendly and intelligent and had lots of friends.

More evidence that what people BELIEVE drives their actions, not how they FEEL.

Soldiers don’t need to WANT to kill in order to do so, they are simply convinced that it is their duty and job. People’s emotions are not that important, it’s their beliefs that control.

169 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:14:56pm

re: #165 palomino

Damn, I always miss the best part. My timing sucks.

He’s got to hold the record for worst average negative karma. Wonder what finally did him in ultimately. I would have thought that accusing people here of supporting the bombings would have been enough but it was fun mocking him.

170 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:16:13pm

re: #167 Mich-again

I agree. I seriously doubt that little brother has any actionable intelligence and I don’t really care to hear his sob story.

I don’t care about his pain either, but I do want what’s in his head. The details of how he was radicalized and how he and his brother obtained their guns and bombs are details the FBI needs to know.

171 bws58  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:16:20pm

re: #154 prairiefire
lol..those are on my bookshelf in real page form. We have a house rule that if a movie is based on a book, book must be read first…it’s how i got my kid to read Harry Potter

I finally decided to get around to watching Hunger Games, so I had to buy the books…and ZOMG they were really good especially the political angle, and my kindle came in really handy

172 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:19:20pm

Is the story that the boy tweeted that he was relaxed and trouble free AFTER the bombing still holding up?

Maybe he didn’t even find battling and losing his brother a trouble, maybe he thinks they’re both going straight to heaven.

173 bws58  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:20:46pm

re: #156 sagehen

test patterns, busy signals, getting our first color TV, 4 channels and nothing more, watching Jon Jon & Caroline mad because their dad’s funeral preempted and the Moon landing

174 erik_t  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:20:59pm

re: #152 KingKenrod

I work for a company that is absolutely obsessed with safety compliance. Yet some employees still don’t give a shit and make careless mistakes.

(severe mismatch detected)

175 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:21:04pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

I don’t care about his pain either, but I do want what’s in his head. The details of how he was radicalized and how he and his brother obtained their guns and bombs are details the FBI needs to know.

OK good point. I wonder at which gun show they bought the guns.

176 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:22:42pm

My point is that we don’t even know that he has any “pain” or “sob story”

There are totally non-normal ways to look at this that are perfectly plausible states of mind for a terrorist.

177 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:26:44pm

re: #175 Mich-again

OK good point. I wonder at which gun show they bought the guns.

That’s rather fallaciously assumptive of you.

178 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:27:24pm

re: #164 stabby

I don’t need to hear some shithead murderer give his excuses for being a shithead. Happy if he dies.

We have every need to know, because this chucklefuck’s about to become the posterchild of forces on Capital Hill that want to scrap immigration reform in the name of “national security.” Who will push to pass another round of restrictions on our basic freedoms in pursuit of the illusion of safety. He’s going to be the example that the legions of Islamophobes, like Geller and Spencer, use to assert that we’re at war with Islam and no Muslim can be trusted.

Whether you consider it important or not, whatever is banging around in his gourd is important to ensuring that we don’t get stuck in that 9/11 mentality all over again.

179 stabby  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:31:15pm

re: #178 Targetpractice

Don’t get into a state where you want to change the news to fit your favorite policies. Just argue your policies honestly.

I always knew that if there’s enough terrorism, then our immigration polices will change. ENOUGH terrorism and we’ll even change the constitution. I trust that people have the wisdom to adapt to whatever reality we find ourselves in.

But two young shitheads with small bombs aren’t enough to change policy much.

180 Kronocide  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:33:17pm

Kurt Princeton

This user is blocked a massive Hoover Dam sized Douche Nozzle.

181 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:34:28pm

re: #171 bws58

Lol, as my boy says. My girl is not allowed to see the Kiera Knightly Anna K until she has either read the book, or watched the Vivian Leigh version.

182 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 10:53:20pm

re: #179 stabby

Don’t get into a state where you want to change the news to fit your favorite policies. Just argue your policies honestly.

I always knew that if there’s enough terrorism, then our immigration polices will change. ENOUGH terrorism and we’ll even change the constitution. I trust that people have the wisdom to adapt to whatever reality we find ourselves in.

But two young shitheads with small bombs aren’t enough to change policy much.

Two young shitheads with small bombs just put an entire city on virtual lockdown for a week. We’ve already had Republicans on Capital Hill using this tragedy to call for slowing immigration reform. And conservative pundits are calling for the bill to be junked altogether.

I think you massively underestimate the forces that are at play here.

183 EvilScott2  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:00:04pm

It’s really sick that guy placed the bomb right behind that 8 year old boy. Deliberately.

He also followed several radical islamic accounts on Twitter.
But, keep that quiet.

184 prairiefire  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:02:11pm

re: #183 EvilScott2

It’s really sick that guy placed the bomb right behind that 8 year old boy. Deliberately.

He also followed several radical islamic accounts on Twitter.
But, keep that quiet.

Shhh….

185 freetoken  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:02:51pm

re: #184 prairiefire

Shhh….

Yeah, like, don’t step on our conspiracy of silence and such…

eeeeshhh…..

186 Gus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:09:18pm
187 Gus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:15:01pm
188 Gus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:18:38pm
189 Gus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:24:45pm
190 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:25:02pm

Ah, thank you Youtube for bringing us the wonders of MST3K even though TV has forgotten about it.

191 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:27:01pm

re: #183 EvilScott2

It’s really sick that guy placed the bomb right behind that 8 year old boy. Deliberately.

He also followed several radical islamic accounts on Twitter.
But, keep that quiet.

Who’s keeping that quiet?

192 Gus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:34:23pm
193 DisturbedEma  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:36:24pm

re: #180 Kronocide

dammit did I miss it?

194 DisturbedEma  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:42:00pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

The Sheboygan River is cresting (maybe) too- but as far as I can tell it will be ok

195 darthstar  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:44:22pm

Hey everyone…took a break from the news to watch a baseball game and catch up on Flea Market Flip. Just came back to leave you with this happy thought:

Image: 59218_582655081755507_426749287_n.jpg

196 DisturbedEma  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:44:43pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

C’mon really? Are you saying that gun shows do NOT fudge the rules? They do here…and I know you are from just south of me…

197 DisturbedEma  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:46:58pm

night all- hugged my kids and just going to try to sleep

198 darthstar  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:48:59pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

I don’t care about his pain either, but I do want what’s in his head. The details of how he was radicalized and how he and his brother obtained their guns and bombs are details the FBI needs to know.

The guns are easy…the second amendment guarantees that, while you may be a psychopath, nobody’s allowed to question your right to buy a gun from a private seller at a gun show.

As far as being ‘radicalized’ goes…we don’t know if they were radicalized…maybe their uncle Ruslan was right…they’re just losers who couldn’t figure out how to live in the best fucking country on the planet.

My guess is that what’s in his head is shit. Shit is in his head. But if there are other people involved in building the bombs he and his brother planted, it would be good to know who they are…though by now the police already know every person they’ve talked to in the last two years.

199 Lidane  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:53:08pm

Ahh. Much better.

Back on solid ground, and safely back in my house. Now if my ears would finally quit hurting after popping on the descent back into Austin, I’d be perfect.

I’m tired, but it was a good week at work. And I made my nerd pilgrimage while in Silicon Valley. Visited the Apple campus in Cupertino. Even visited the company store. It’s all good.

200 Gus  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:55:30pm

Must be nice to be so sure of yourself to think that you know all the right answers. It takes a bit of arrogance to attain that. An arrogance that I don’t possess.

201 darthstar  Fri, Apr 19, 2013 11:57:26pm

re: #200 Gus

An arrogance that I don’t possess.

Wow…how arrogant do you have to be to claim you’re not arrogant? Even I’M not THAT arrogant!

202 Gus  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:08:58am

re: #201 darthstar

Wow…how arrogant do you have to be to claim you’re not arrogant? Even I’M not THAT arrogant!

Must have taken a lot of effort to debate Kurt Princeton.

203 Gus  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:17:30am

Wish I was as perfect as half the people here.

204 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:24:30am
205 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:25:48am
206 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:50:40am

re: #200 Gus

As they say in Britain, “what are you on about?”

207 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:51:33am

Crying for that troll? Did you read his horrid copypasta? There was no brain in that head to argue with!

208 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 12:54:09am

As for the terrorists, I get the feeling that people miss that if they decide to, people can simply write off large portions of the human race and feel no worse about slaughtering than they’d feel about eating meat.

It’s a matter of belief and willingness. And it’s not a sign of mental or emotional illness, it’s a side effect of the fact that morals are arbitrary, and beliefs are not only arbitrary, but they also drive perception and feeling.

209 Single-handed sailor  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 1:06:07am
Youtube Video


Procol Harum - A Salty Dog

210 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 1:34:52am

I learned something looking into the West, Texas fertlizer plant explosion. In Texas counties have zero zoning authority, it’s reserved entirely to the cities. However had the plant been in the city itself it’s doubtful this would have changed anything, since the city of West doesn’t appear to have a zoning board.

Crazy shit.

211 freetoken  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 2:14:21am
MP3 Audio
212 Jimmah  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 2:27:01am
Youtube Video
213 freetoken  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 2:41:30am
MP3 Audio
214 Jimmah  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 2:57:08am
Youtube Video
215 freetoken  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 3:45:22am
MP3 Audio
216 compound_Idaho  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 4:32:21am

re: #133 erik_t

I’ll repost: any runner who has raced even a little remembers their PRs within a minute or so. He was a willful filthy fucking liar.

Weird bizarro-world credit to Sarah Palin, of all people, who would never lie about something so important (srsly) as a marathon time.

What you say is not accurate. Runners know their PR to the second. I took 94 seconds off my PR on Monday in Boston.

217 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:06:36am

re: #216 compound_Idaho

What you say is not accurate. Runners know their PR to the second. I took 94 seconds off my PR on Monday in Boston.

No fair if you’re outrunning shrapnel.

218 thedopefishlives  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:54:52am

re: #217 Decatur Deb

No fair if you’re outrunning shrapnel.

That made me laugh. It also made me think of the official Rules of Golf, which contain exceptions for if your ball is struck by machine gun fire or lands in a crater with active (unexploded) ordnance.

Morning Lizardim from the brilliant and cold wild north country.

219 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:54:57am

Good morning lizards! The sun seems brighter and the air smells better this morning. Glad the scumbag is in custody :)

220 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:56:28am

re: #218 thedopefishlives

That made me laugh. It also made me think of the official Rules of Golf, which contain exceptions for if your ball is struck by machine gun fire or lands in a crater with active (unexploded) ordnance.

Morning Lizardim from the brilliant and cold wild north country.

‘Morning. Your spawn photos got overwhelmed in yesterday’s traffic.

221 thedopefishlives  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:56:47am

re: #220 Decatur Deb

‘Morning. Your spawn photos got overwhelmed in yesterday’s traffic.

It’s fine. I kind of expected it. I apparently chose a bad week to have a baby.

222 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:58:17am

re: #221 thedopefishlives

It’s fine. I kind of expected it. I apparently chose a bad week to have a baby.

Never saw them—repost, link?

223 thedopefishlives  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 5:59:01am

re: #222 Decatur Deb

Never saw them—repost, link?

There was only the one picture that I had available on my computer - most of the rest are on my mom’s Digital Rebel and will follow along later.

Image: P1010006_2.jpg

224 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:00:38am

re: #223 thedopefishlives

Kid’s ticked off—might be the silly hat.

225 thedopefishlives  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:01:02am

re: #224 Decatur Deb

Kid’s ticked off—might be the silly hat.

Not to worry. Grandma #2 made her a much nicer one.

226 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:06:10am
227 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:15:29am

re: #226 NJDhockeyfan

I do love me some lamb chops! Yum! ;)

228 Dr. Matt  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:28:47am

re: #227 William Barnett-Lewis

I do love me some lamb chops! Yum! ;)

Eggs and chops… Sounds like a great bfast.

229 Flounder  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:50:58am

re: #223 thedopefishlives

Congratulations to you and the Wifey!!!

First baby?!
I love that new baby smell!!!

230 thedopefishlives  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 6:51:30am

re: #229 Flounder

Congratulations to you and the Wifey!!!

First baby?!
I love that new baby smell!!!

2nd baby. I have a 2-year-old fishspawn at home. My parents are watching him while we are with Fishspawn 2.0.

231 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:01:53am

re: #223 thedopefishlives

There was only the one picture that I had available on my computer - most of the rest are on my mom’s Digital Rebel and will follow along later.

Image: P1010006_2.jpg

Congrats. The fun is just beginning.

232 Flounder  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:02:39am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

That’s great! The second for my wife and I was much more relaxing and easy to enjoy. Spoil ‘em while you can! I showed my 16 yo daughter your baby pic and she cooed “oooooh, how cute, I want one!”

233 The Dude Abides  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:10:15am

Well, the answer to the West, TX explosion might be here:
tinyurl.com

WEST — The fertilizer plant that exploded Wednesday had at least 540,000 pounds of potentially dangerous ammonium nitrate in a storage building, a 2012 company filing with the state health department shows.

That’s more than 100 times the weight of the ammonium nitrate and fuel oil mix that Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh used to destroy the Murrah Federal Building 18 years ago Friday.

The size of the explosive fertilizer stockpile on the property of West Fertilizer Co. and Adair Grain became clear Friday as an army of federal, state and local investigators picked through acres of shredded metal and the debris from blasted homes and schools close to the site.

Senseless, stupid, ignorant…too many words to describe it. Anyway, hello Lizards!

234 thedopefishlives  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:12:58am

re: #233 The Dude Abides

Well, the answer to the West, TX explosion might be here:
tinyurl.com

Senseless, stupid, ignorant…too many words to describe it. Anyway, hello Lizards!

Crikey.

235 BongCrodny  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:16:36am

re: #233 The Dude Abides

Well, the answer to the West, TX explosion might be here:
tinyurl.com

Senseless, stupid, ignorant…too many words to describe it. Anyway, hello Lizards!

Good morning, hatchling!

Let me to first to offer you one (1) gold-plated upding to set you off on the lizard brick road.

236 Mattand  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:24:07am
237 BongCrodny  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:25:50am

Okay, you might have to be an old fart like me to get the reference here, but this might now be my favorite commercial of all time.

Uh…what was the name of that show again?

Youtube Video
238 Mattand  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:27:12am

re: #233 The Dude Abides

Well, the answer to the West, TX explosion might be here:
tinyurl.com

Senseless, stupid, ignorant…too many words to describe it. Anyway, hello Lizards!

Every conservative/Republican should be forced to go to West and look at this. This is limited government right here. This is what happens when you promote government so small you can drown it a bathtub.

239 Flounder  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:27:29am

re: #233 The Dude Abides

Okay, will play devil’s advocate this morning. Fertilizer and diesel are two different things. 540,000 lbs of fertilizer / 2000 lbs per ton = 270 tons.
One tri-axle dump truck holds about 22 ton of material, so, they had about 12 dump truck loads there. Not very much. How much do fertilizer plants usually hold?

240 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:28:34am

re: #238 Mattand

Every conservative/Republican should be forced to go to West and look at this. This is limited government right here. This is what happens when you promote government so small you can drown it a bathtub.

Everyone of them would argue that we would have even less problems if we had even less govt.

241 Mattand  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:29:50am

re: #237 BongCrodny

Okay, you might have to be an old fart like me to get the reference here, but this might now be my favorite commercial of all time.

Uh…what was the name of that show again?

[Embedded content]

I do believe that was the Wacky Races. Wow. That was impressive.

242 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:30:41am

re: #233 The Dude Abides

Another great login name.

243 Mattand  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:31:24am

re: #239 Flounder

Okay, will play devil’s advocate this morning. Fertilizer and diesel are two different things. 540,000 lbs of fertilizer / 2000 lbs per ton = 270 tons.
One tri-axle dump truck holds about 22 ton of material, so, they had about 12 dump truck loads there. Not very much. How much do fertilizer plants usually hold?

I was wondering that, too. I’m willing to bet there’s all sorts of federal and state safety regulations that were being ignored, because ebil gubmint is a big meanie to bizniss.

244 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:32:11am

re: #239 Flounder

Remember to account for the cubic yardage as well as the tonnage.

245 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:32:57am

re: #233 The Dude Abides

Well, the answer to the West, TX explosion might be here:
tinyurl.com

Senseless, stupid, ignorant…too many words to describe it. Anyway, hello Lizards!

Welcome, hatchling!.

246 bratwurst  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:33:19am

re: #239 Flounder

Okay, will play devil’s advocate this morning. Fertilizer and diesel are two different things. 540,000 lbs of fertilizer / 2000 lbs per ton = 270 tons.
One tri-axle dump truck holds about 22 ton of material, so, they had about 12 dump truck loads there. Not very much. How much do fertilizer plants usually hold?

I was told there wasn’t going to be math on the test.

247 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:34:21am

re: #236 Mattand

Piling on…

248 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:34:28am

re: #241 Mattand

I do believe that was the Wacky Races. Wow. That was impressive.

You’re right on both counts.

249 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:38:53am

re: #247 darthstar

That said, as an American citizen he cannot be subject to a military tribunal.

250 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:41:08am

Heh…

Thanks Union thugs

251 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:42:36am

re: #250 darthstar

Heh…

Thanks Union thugs

Imageshack limitations on stealing bandwidth. Fixed.

252 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:42:56am

re: #237 BongCrodny

Okay, you might have to be an old fart like me to get the reference here, but this might now be my favorite commercial of all time.

Uh…what was the name of that show again?

[Embedded content]

That was a good commercial - brilliant take on Wacky Races.

Loved it.

253 Flounder  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:44:38am

re: #244 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I was just being in the ballpark. 22 tons is a loaded asphalt truck. I am sure 27 cubic feet of asphalt weighs a little different than fertilizer, or not. :)

254 Dr. Matt  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:45:48am

Please proceed, Rick Perry

255 Lidane  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:49:16am

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

Until we know that he was actively working for and was financed by some outside group somewhere, it’s a stretch to say that this kid “adhered to our enemies”.

The Boston attacks were horrifying, barbaric, and heartbreaking. And yes, they were terrorist attacks. But so were the Olympic Park and OKC bombings and those ended up being entirely domestic in nature. We’re speculating too much right now about the motives that these guys had. We don’t have any concrete evidence yet.

256 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:49:21am

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

That said, as an American citizen he cannot be subject to a military tribunal.

The bomb attacks did not clearly level war against the United States, Dark. Individuals can’t level war.

257 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:50:15am

re: #256 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The bomb attacks did not clearly level war against the United States, Dark. Individuals can’t level war.

Except in their own minds. Which is not considered in the international definitions.

258 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:51:26am

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

That said, as an American citizen he cannot be subject to a military tribunal.

“clearly levied war against the United States?” A nineteen year old US citizen? War? You do realize that war is something waged by one country against another. I have to say, I’m eternally grateful idiots like Lindsey Graham have people like you to defend him. Holy shit.

259 BongCrodny  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:52:26am

re: #241 Mattand

I do believe that was the Wacky Races. Wow. That was impressive.

I did’t catch on until I saw “Penelope Pitstop,” but the smile on my face got so wide after that I thought the top of my head was going to fall off.

260 Lidane  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:52:59am

re: #256 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The bomb attacks did not clearly level war against the United States, Dark. Individuals can’t level war.

Hell, even small groups can’t level war. Just look at the militia nutjobs in this country. If they could “level war” against the US, they’d be in a much stronger position than they are.

Yes, the Boston attacks were terrorism. But they weren’t acts of war. That’s giving these two guys far more power than they deserve.

261 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:53:29am

sure he could “levy war” he could join an army that we’re at war with… if he could find one. He could follow John Walker Lind, go to Afghanistan and join the Taliban.

262 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:57:02am

re: #261 stabby

sure he could “levy war” he could join an army that we’re at war with… if he could find one. He could follow John Walker Lind, go to Afghanistan and join the Taliban.

The nebulous “War on Terror”? That misses a lot of the definitions as well since the Taliban is not a country, or even in control of one at this point. And even then you start getting back into that whole “enemy combatant” morass.

263 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:58:14am

Anyway, I’ve seen this stupid populist hysteria on the right.
Remember when those idiot Marines not only peed on dead Taliban, they also posted the videos youtube?

PJMedia was overflowing with people saying that Obama was a traitor for suggesting that the army needs discipline. They even called any soldiers who showed up in the comment section to say the obvious traitors.

Anyone with half a brain could see that if the US armed forces get a reputation for lawlessness, THEY WON’T BE WELCOME ANYWHERE.

Hell we would be kicked out of Europe.

But no, the right wing only knows hatred and supporting hatred. All realities in the way of that, be damned.

264 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 7:58:57am

re: #262 Feline Fearless Leader

We’re not at war in Afghanistan? Fooled me.

265 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:00:19am

re: #260 Lidane

Yes, the Boston attacks were terrorism. But they weren’t acts of war. That’s giving these two guys far more power than they deserve.

WE NEED TO BLOW THESE GUYS UP TO SOUND LIKE THE UNITED STATES OF CHECHOSLO-beki-beki-TURGISTANSTAN PEOPLE !!!

266 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:00:40am

…fool me once, shame on … shame on you…. Fool me uh … you can’t get fooled again.

267 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:01:46am

re: #264 stabby

We’re not at war in Afghanistan? Fooled me.

Technically, it’s a military occupation.

268 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:02:51am

And technically Vietnam was a “police action”! North Korea too.

269 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:02:59am

re: #264 stabby

We’re not at war in Afghanistan? Fooled me.

Only Congress can declare war. Can’t find a link to a declaration.

270 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:03:48am

re: #264 stabby

We’re not at war in Afghanistan? Fooled me.

Graham referred to the “Laws of War”. Once you get into helping “allies” deal with insurgencies the rules get very muddy. (Partially due to some of the rules and agreements being old and not taking guerrilla wars into account.)

And there are differences between war “in” and war “with”.

But I think you know that and are just word splitting for the sake of the argument. I hope you’re getting your five pounds worth.

271 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:03:54am

re: #269 Decatur Deb

They gave GW authorization.

272 darthstar  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:04:36am

Okay…my dog wants to go levy war on his frisbee on the beach. See you all later, maybe.

273 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:05:05am

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

But I think you know that and are just word splitting for the sake of the argument. I hope you’re getting your five pounds worth.

Yes, I’m very well paid to sow confusion on the net. By Soros and the international Jewish conspiracy!

274 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:05:50am

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

That said, as an American citizen he cannot be subject to a military tribunal.

No. For fuck’s sake, no. You are stripping the word “war” of it’s very important definition.

275 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:07:27am

re: #271 stabby

They gave GW authorization.

The government of Afghanistan is our ally. We are helping them put down an insurrection/cross-border incursion.

276 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:19:10am

Do we have any bags of dicks left?

Rupert Murdoch Defends NY Post’s Bombing Coverage

277 Stanley Sea  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:20:32am

For some of our fellow citizens, the ones obsessed with jihad, considering it the #1 and only threat, then so ready to throw away the rule of law: the terrorists got in your head. They won.

278 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:24:02am

re: #272 darthstar

Okay…my dog wants to go levy war on his frisbee on the beach. See you all later, maybe.

No, not the frisbee!

279 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:24:40am

DF, the two idiots in Boston were criminals, pure and simple, like all terrorists are. The criminal justice system is more than able to deal with them. See OKC, Unibomber & the first WTC bombing for more than sufficient proof. We have never, I say again - NEVER - needed anything other than the criminal justice system and the rest - The Unpatriot Act, Gitmo, etc - were all needless & unconstitutional abuses of people that should have simply been tried & if convicted sitting in a normal high security prison here in the US.

280 Dr. Matt  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:28:21am

Chuck Woolery blocked me on twitter. Is that a badge of honor or should I be offended that a 3rd-rate game show host actually went to the effort?

281 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:30:44am

re: #280 Dr. Matt

Chuck Woolery blocked me on twitter. Is that a badge of honor or should I be offended that a 3rd-rate gameshow host actually went to the effort?

Is it really goat rape if he bought the goat a drink first?

282 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:34:14am

re: #281 Iwouldprefernotto

Is it really goat rape if he bought the goat a drink first?

I thought goats had ways of just shutting down that sort of thing.

283 TheAntichrist  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:35:36am

The whole issue of Miranda rights is really irrelevant in this case, it’s not like they’re going to need incriminating statements by the suspect to have enough evidence for a conviction. They also told the driver of the car they hijacked that they were the marathon bombers, in addition to the mountain of other evidence against him they have gathered and are gathering.

At this point only the parents think they didn’t do it.

284 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:36:00am

re: #260 Lidane

Hell, even small groups can’t level war. Just look at the militia nutjobs in this country. If they could “level war” against the US, they’d be in a much stronger position than they are.

Yes, the Boston attacks were terrorism. But they weren’t acts of war. That’s giving these two guys far more power than they deserve.

Hell! Declaring war against terrorism gave groups like Al Qaeda far more cachet than they deserve.

285 GeneJockey  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:37:59am

re: #283 TheAntichrist

At this point only the parents think they didn’t do it.

Well, them and Alex Jones.

286 Dr. Matt  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:38:17am
287 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:38:49am

re: #279 William Barnett-Lewis

Nah, terrorists can have much more dangerous goals than criminals. These two can be treated by the criminal justice system, fine. But when the damage and number of people inflicting it gets great enough the risk to society approaches that of war.

Our rules of justice are a balance, and greater danger can tip that balance.

It doesn’t matter in the slightest what we argue, the public will demand safety and if the threat and demand get high enough, the government will follow. If we have to change the constitution we may, or we may ignore it. But the fact is that people know that there is a limit to how much danger they will submit to.

288 blueraven  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:39:52am

OK one thing I dont understand about the Boston bombers, and maybe this has already been answered, but when they hijacked that car at MIT, did they have guns and bombs with them at the time?

My understanding is they went to try to get money with the guys ATM card. Then they let him go. Did they make another stop to get guns and other firearms that was used at the shootout with police?

289 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:40:11am

re: #287 stabby

The amount of danger posed by these or other terrorists is tiny, though. Really tiny.

290 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:41:48am

re: #289 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The amount of danger posed by these or other terrorists is tiny, though. Really tiny.

If the goal of your organization is to kill as many people as possible in order to inflict maximum terror, then your organization is more like an army than a gang. The goal matters.

Never forget the multiplier effect of technology.

291 Buck  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:41:54am

re: #21 calochortus

Why is everyone so worried about whether the suspect has been Mirandized or not? (Specifically wingnuts who are horrified that if he has been it will mean he stop telling everything he knows.) Do you suppose a 19 year old who has been in this country for a decade is totally unaware of his right to a lawyer? Really?

That is not the point at all. Miranda says that you can’t use what he says in a court of law without the warning. He can be aware, give a full confession and if they can’t use it (only because they didn’t give the clear warning) then it is useless.

292 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:46:13am

re: #287 stabby

Been a while since I read such a baldfaced defense of fascism.

293 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:46:51am

re: #292 William Barnett-Lewis

You might want to buy a dictionary

294 Stanley Sea  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:48:48am

Twitter upgrade idea: be able to list all you follow and put checks next to those tweets you want to see (can uncheck later to see all). It would have been awesome to filter during the event and only see those from the Boston globe et al.

295 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:48:50am

re: #288 blueraven

OK one thing I dont understand about the Boston bombers, and maybe this has already been answered, but when they hijacked that car at MIT, did they have guns and bombs with them at the time?

My understanding is they went to try to get money with the guys ATM card. Then they let him go. Did they make another stop to get guns and other firearms that was used at the shootout with police?

All the reporting is very suspect, but one story had them stopping the hijacked car to replenish from one that was parked.

296 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:49:05am

re: #291 Buck

That is not the point at all. Miranda says that you can’t use what he says in a court of law without the warning. He can be aware, give a full confession and if they can’t use it (only because they didn’t give the clear warning) then it is useless.

Pretty good reason to Mirandize him.

297 blueraven  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:50:34am

re: #295 Decatur Deb

Ah…that would make sense.

298 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:53:21am

re: #293 stabby

You might want to buy a dictionary

Look in a mirror. Or read Umberto Eco’s essay on Ur-Fascism then consider the Franklin principle: Those who would give up freedom for security soon find they have neither.

299 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:55:52am

It’s quite possible he hasn’t been Mirandized because he’s unconscious.

300 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:56:17am

re: #290 stabby

If the goal of your organization is to kill as many people as possible in order to inflict maximum terror, then your organization is more like an army than a gang. The goal matters.

Never forget the multiplier effect of technology.

No clue what you’re talking about. Terrorists manage to kill a very small number of people. They are not an existential threat to us in any way. The amount of people we lost to terrorism is dwarfed by those lost to a lot of other sources.

301 blueraven  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:56:39am

I dont know how we managed to convict and get the death penalty for Timothy McVeigh or life sentences for Eric Rudolph. After all, they were Mirandized!!!

302 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:58:00am

re: #291 Buck

That is not the point at all. Miranda says that you can’t use what he says in a court of law without the warning. He can be aware, give a full confession and if they can’t use it (only because they didn’t give the clear warning) then it is useless.

We really don’t need his confession to seal this deal, y’know. He’ll probably have a lawyer before he’s even conscious, since that (crazy) aunt of his is a lawyer. And a lawyer makes Miranda kind of beside the point.

303 BongCrodny  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 8:59:08am

re: #286 Dr. Matt

Considering Leonard Nimoy’s proclivity in that Bruno Mars video, do you suppose he and George Takei ever get together to burn one?

304 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:00:24am

re: #302 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

We really don’t need his confession to seal this deal, y’know. He’ll probably have a lawyer before he’s even conscious, since that (crazy) aunt of his is a lawyer. And a lawyer makes Miranda kind of beside the point.

This twerp is over. The actions of some future Attorney General under President Bachmann are the worry.

305 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:02:49am

Putting aside the argument of whether not not there should be a Public Safety Exception for a moment, it seems reasonable that this fits the bill. There may be other bombs. Again, I’m not defending the exemption’s existence.

306 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:03:11am

re: #279 William Barnett-Lewis

DF, the two idiots in Boston were criminals, pure and simple, like all terrorists are. The criminal justice system is more than able to deal with them. See OKC, Unibomber & the first WTC bombing for more than sufficient proof. We have never, I say again - NEVER - needed anything other than the criminal justice system and the rest - The Unpatriot Act, Gitmo, etc - were all needless & unconstitutional abuses of people that should have simply been tried & if convicted sitting in a normal high security prison here in the US.

I don’t want this asshole sitting in a high security prison. I want him charged federally, I want him tried, I want him convicted, and then I want him put to death. A life sentence is the wrong message with this sort of terrorist. He needs to be killed.

Please note: I am not calling for this scumbag to be killed out of hand. I want him judged, not lynched.

307 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:03:15am

re: #300 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

It’s not hard to understand that the potential threat that terrorists can pose has the upper limit of… say nuking a city.

The upper limit of the threat a criminal poses is much smaller.

The justice system is balanced for a threat limit of crime not one like war.

308 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:05:11am

Al Qaeda hasn’t turned out to be that horrible, but at one point they announced a goal of killing, I think it was 3 million Americans.

If they’d been doing more than blowing smoke, we’d be having a different conversation of course.

309 Dr. Matt  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:07:12am

re: #299 Kronocide

It’s quite possible he hasn’t been Mirandized because he’s unconscious.

Bingo. I was thinking the same thing. I haven’t read or heard a reliable report about his current condition. If his wounds were from the first gun fight, where his brother was killed, he likely lost a lot of blood by the time he was captured. The systemic effects of blood loss can be extensive, especially if class III or greater, and difficult to reverse/treat.

310 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:07:29am

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

I don’t want this asshole sitting in a high security prison. I want him charged federally, I want him tried, I want him convicted, and then I want him put to death. A life sentence is the wrong message with this sort of terrorist. He needs to be killed.

Please note: I am not calling for this scumbag to be killed out of hand. I want him judged, not lynched.

He’ll spend the rest of his life sitting in a room all alone with an hour a week to walk the yard. I think that will suffice.

311 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:08:08am

re: #309 Dr. Matt

Bingo. I was thinking the same thing. I haven’t read or heard a reliable report about his current condition. If his wounds were from the first gun fight, where his brother was killed, he likely lost a lot of blood by the time he was captured. The systemic effects of blood loss can be extensive, especially if class III or greater, and difficult to reverse/treat.

He suffered gunshots to the neck and leg. Yeah, I’d say he’s all kinds of fucked up.

312 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:09:15am

re: #310 Four More Tears

He’ll spend the rest of his life sitting in a room all alone with an hour a week to walk the yard. I think that will suffice.

Not to my mind. Executing him would not be about him, it would be about demonstrating to our enemies that attacking us has consequences.

BBL

313 Dr. Matt  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:10:13am

re: #311 Four More Tears

He suffered gunshots to the neck and leg. Yeah, I’d say he’s all kinds of fucked up.

Good. I hope he’s in pain.

314 blueraven  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:10:27am

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

I don’t want this asshole sitting in a high security prison. I want him charged federally, I want him tried, I want him convicted, and then I want him put to death. A life sentence is the wrong message with this sort of terrorist. He needs to be killed.

Please note: I am not calling for this scumbag to be killed out of hand. I want him judged, not lynched.

That can happen as well within the normal criminal justice system. See Tim McVeigh. He killed 168 people.
What is the difference?

315 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:10:32am

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

I don’t want this asshole sitting in a high security prison. I want him charged federally, I want him tried, I want him convicted, and then I want him put to death. A life sentence is the wrong message with this sort of terrorist. He needs to be killed.

Please note: I am not calling for this scumbag to be killed out of hand. I want him judged, not lynched.

His brain is a national resource right now. We need to find out how the whole universe of these dipshits are motivated.

316 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:10:44am

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Not to my mind. Executing him would not be about him, it would be about demonstrating to our enemies that attacking us has consequences.

BBL

Kinda thought we did that when we hunted Bin Laden for the better part of a decade and violated another country’s sovereignty just to pop a cap in his ass.

317 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:11:44am

Graham on Fox now. Yay.

318 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:12:09am

re: #316 Four More Tears

We also confiscated his porn. Never forget how serious our punishment was!

319 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:12:20am

re: #315 Decatur Deb

His brain is a national resource right now. We need to find out how the whole universe of these dipshits are motivated.

I know. That’s why I wanted him alive and didn’t want him Mirandized. I’ve got more to say on this one, but it’ll need to wait.

320 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:12:37am

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

I don’t want this asshole sitting in a high security prison. I want him charged federally, I want him tried, I want him convicted, and then I want him put to death. A life sentence is the wrong message with this sort of terrorist. He needs to be killed.

Please note: I am not calling for this scumbag to be killed out of hand. I want him judged, not lynched.

The fear of death is not going to stop people like this, which is pretty goddamn obvious.

321 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:12:57am

re: #317 Four More Tears

Graham on Fox now. Yay.

That will put Jim Hoft’s standing at risk.

322 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:13:19am

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

When you say you want him not to be mirandized, does that mean you don’t think he has the protections of the constitution, or what?

323 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:16:12am

re: #316 Four More Tears

Kinda thought we did that when we hunted Bin Laden for the better part of a decade and violated another country’s sovereignty just to pop a cap in his ass.

And he was hatching terror plots even up to the week of his death. He remained a threat, and he had to die. Pakistan would not have been able to catch him due to Islamists in its government, and that meant we had to do it, sovereignty be damned. If ever an incursion was justified, it was Abottabad.


BBL for real. Sorry I kept going, I should not be leaving the conversation unfinished.

324 efuseakay  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:18:43am

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

And he was hatching terror plots even up to the week of his death. He remained a threat, and he had to die. Pakistan would not have been able to catch him due to Islamists in its government, and that meant we had to do it, sovereignty be damned. If ever an incursion was justified, it was Abottabad.

Remember this when some other country violates our sovereignty to deal with a threat they feel is directed at them.

325 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:19:21am

re: #315 Decatur Deb

His brain is a national resource right now. We need to find out how the whole universe of these dipshits are motivated.

That will do more good to society than executing him. As if execution will show a consequence that will make future bombers hesitate.

326 efuseakay  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:20:38am

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Not to my mind. Executing him would not be about him, it would be about demonstrating to our enemies that attacking us has consequences.

BBL

Lots of good execution does to people who want to die.

327 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:20:53am

re: #324 efuseakay

Remember this when some other country violates our sovereignty to deal with a threat they feel is directed at them.

BTDT:

gwu.edu

328 Stanley Sea  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:20:55am

Heading out for mundane tasks. Thanks for the posts as always, see y’all later.

329 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:22:42am

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

Well, I disagree in that I think that life without the possibility of parole is a worse punishment, however, aside from the final sentence you’ll note that what you said is what I said? That the criminal system is fully capable of taking care of _any_ terrorist/criminal?

Despite Stabby’s desire to avoid living in a civilized nation, we are fully able to handle any criminals without pissing away our freedom or our honor.

330 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:25:41am

Boston Bomb Suspect Alarmed Russian Relatives With Extremist Views

One of the Boston bombing suspects set off alarm bells among his family a year ago during a trip here to visit relatives, ABC News has learned.

According to a family member, Tamerlan Tsarnaev was kicked out of his uncle’s house because of his increasingly extremist views.
….
Tamerlan Tsarnaev spent roughly six months in Russia in 2012, but the relative, who insisted on anonymity to avoid offending other family members, insisted the young man had been radicalized in the United States before his trip.
…
“When he came back he starting posting more radical jihadist YouTube videos and started becoming more of a fundamentalist Muslim,” Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, told ABC News Friday.

“My concern is that he may have gone over there to visit his father and he received training and then became radicalized and then came back. Something happened in that period of time. He was not like that before,” McCaul said.

The FBI, meanwhile, also looked into Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011.

In a statement Friday, the bureau said it investigated Tsarnaev on behalf of a foreign government, though it did not reveal which one

331 AlexRogan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:26:07am

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

Not to my mind. Executing him would not be about him, it would be about demonstrating to our enemies that attacking us has consequences.

BBL

Bullshit, you want vengeance.

The death penalty never really has been about “deterrence”, it’s society’s ultimate way of getting payback. That said, there are some people who just need to die, because they’re that dangerous and evil, but the remaining BM bomber just doesn’t fall under that category for me.

If he is found guilty in a court of law, he can rot in ADX Florence for the rest of his life.

332 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:28:46am

re: #330 Killgore Trout

A pages poster was being downdinged for that story before it appeared on a reputable site like ABC

333 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:32:05am

re: #332 stabby

A pages poster was being downdinged for that story before it appeared on a reputable site like ABC

Id seen the reports that he was under suspicion previously and investigated but I hadn’t heard relatives reporting that he had been radicalized before. I kind of doubt this was a directed operation by a foreign group but it is possible that he received some training on his trip.

334 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:35:43am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

So far, it is one single relative anonymously reporting it, not relatives. Try to keep facts straight, please, there’s enough disinformation floating around already.

335 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:38:26am

re: #320 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

The fear of death is not going to stop people like this, which is pretty goddamn obvious.

Plus, let’s face it. Killing him sends the message that it is proper to kill people if you feel the cause is just. We can kill with the proper motivation. If we kill it’s for good reasons.

336 TheAntichrist  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:39:32am

re: #285 GeneJockey

Well, them and Alex Jones.

Alex Jones and his mindless followers probably think there were no bombs at the marathon, and THEY (the secret cabal that controls the world, probably Jews) really crashed planes into the crowd.

337 Buck  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:40:50am

re: #302 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

We really don’t need his confession to seal this deal, y’know. He’ll probably have a lawyer before he’s even conscious, since that (crazy) aunt of his is a lawyer. And a lawyer makes Miranda kind of beside the point.

His crazy Aunt (who is in Toronto) WAS a lawyer “back home”. His father WAS a lawyer back home as well. Interesting information BUT none of that is in any way relevant.

He was conscience enough to shoot at the police from the bottom of the boat he was found in. He was conscience enough to without help crawl out of the boat he was found in.

He might have a lawyer immediately. However if they don’t give him access to that lawyer AND tell him his rights under Miranda then they run the risk of him telling them something that they can not use in court.

The Federal authorities are being very public about using the new rules that allow investigators to hold domestic-terror suspects longer than others without giving them a Miranda warning.

It just seems to me that anyone willing to look the other way, or excuse it just because this is Holder and Obama doing it is being hypocritical.

338 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:41:09am

re: #336 TheAntichrist

Alex Jones and his mindless followers probably think there were no bombs at the marathon, and THEY (the secret cabal that controls the world, probably Jews) really crashed planes into the crowd.

IT WAZ HAARP!!

339 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:43:10am

re: #335 Romantic Heretic

Plus, let’s face it. Killing him sends the message that it is proper to kill people if you feel the cause is just. We can kill with the proper motivation. If we kill it’s for good reasons.

You say that like that’s a bad thing.

The fact is that for terrorists, we only exist as props in their little mystical fantasies, what we say and do in reality has no effect on their fantasy, they’re not listening to US.

340 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:43:50am

re: #337 Buck

His crazy Aunt (who is in Toronto) WAS a lawyer “back home”. His father WAS a lawyer back home as well. Interesting information BUT none of that is in any way relevant.

Er, you realize all I’m saying is that the family appears to be with it enough to arrange a lawyer for him, right? It’s not a very large claim.

He was conscience enough to shoot at the police from the bottom of the boat he was found in. He was conscience enough to without help crawl out of the boat he was found in.

Conscious. And sorry, I’m not psychic like you, I don’t know his state of consciousness.

He might have a lawyer immediately. However if they don’t give him access to that lawyer AND tell him his rights under Miranda then they run the risk of him telling them something that they can not use in court.

They don’t need him to say anything to convict him, though. Do you get that?

The Federal authorities are being very public about using the new rules that allow investigators to hold domestic-terror suspects longer than others without giving them a Miranda warning.

You mean the public safety thing? I hadn’t known they’re citing it, but if they are, then, well, they can use that for 48 hours, I think?

It just seems to me that anyone willing to look the other way, or excuse it just because this is Holder and Obama doing it is being hypocritical.

WTF are you talking about? Excuse what?

341 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:44:50am

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

I know. That’s why I wanted him alive and didn’t want him Mirandized. I’ve got more to say on this one, but it’ll need to wait.

It doesn’t matter what you want - as an American citizen he has the same rights as you do, and he’s going to be Mirandized.

342 blueraven  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:45:07am

re: #337 Buck

His crazy Aunt (who is in Toronto) WAS a lawyer “back home”. His father WAS a lawyer back home as well. Interesting information BUT none of that is in any way relevant.

He was conscience enough to shoot at the police from the bottom of the boat he was found in. He was conscience enough to without help crawl out of the boat he was found in.

He might have a lawyer immediately. However if they don’t give him access to that lawyer AND tell him his rights under Miranda then they run the risk of him telling them something that they can not use in court.

The Federal authorities are being very public about using the new rules that allow investigators to hold domestic-terror suspects longer than others without giving them a Miranda warning.

It just seems to me that anyone willing to look the other way, or excuse it just because this is Holder and Obama doing it is being hypocritical.

Who is being hypocritical?

343 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:46:43am

re: #337 Buck

It just seems to me that anyone willing to look the other way, or excuse it just because this is Holder and Obama doing it is being hypocritical.

This isn’t the Strawman you’re looking for.

344 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:46:47am

re: #337 Buck

The “public safety” exemption is very limited, and he WILL be Mirandized, Buck.

345 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:50:10am

re: #337 Buck

This is the second time today I’ve agreed with you. Knock it off.

346 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:51:38am

re: #344 Charles Johnson


slate.com

I think I see what people are citing, and there is a valid kernel at the bottom of this:

Holder started talking about a bill to broadly expand the exception to Miranda a few months later. Nothing came of that idea, but in October of 2010, Holder’s Justice Department took it upon itself to widen the exception to Miranda beyond the Supreme Court’s 1984 ruling. “Agents should ask any and all questions that are reasonably prompted by an immediate concern for the safety of the public or the arresting agents,” stated a DoJ memo to the FBI that wasn’t disclosed at the time. Again, fine and good. But the memo continues, “there may be exceptional cases in which, although all relevant public safety questions have been asked, agents nonetheless conclude that continued unwarned interrogation is necessary to collect valuable and timely intelligence not related to any immediate threat, and that the government’s interest in obtaining this intelligence outweighs the disadvantages of proceeding with unwarned interrogation.”

What people are failing to understand here, though, is that the Holder memo is not saying that we can then use the intelligence gained against this guy. It means that we can use the evidence as intelligence. Not at his trial.

nytimes.com

Matthew Miller, a Justice Department spokesman, said that the memo could not alter a constitutional right. He portrayed it as clarifying existing flexibility in the rule — especially when investigators are willing to risk sacrificing the ability to use a suspect’s statements in trial.

In most cases, the memorandum said, after public safety questions have been exhausted, interrogators should advise the terrorism suspect of his rights. But in certain “exceptional cases,” agents may continue to ask questions without a Miranda warning “to collect valuable and timely intelligence not related to any immediate threat.”

However, it said, such extended questioning must be approved by supervisors who would weigh “the disadvantages.” A footnote listed precedents ruling that prosecutors could not use self-incriminating statements made by a defendant before a warning.

347 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:53:46am

It looks like the author of the Slate piece didn’t even bother to read the NYT article he cited.

Fucking sloppy.

348 Buck  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:57:11am

re: #340 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Conscious. And sorry, I’m not psychic like you, I don’t know his state of consciousness.

Psychic this:

Image: Bomber-Boat-1842799.jpg

349 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:57:57am

re: #348 Buck

Psychic this:

Image: Bomber-Boat-1842799.jpg

As an ex-boxer, I’d say that’s a guy about to pass the fuck out, someone who might answer “Tuesday” if you asked him who was president.

350 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 9:58:54am

I’ve created a page that hopefully can clear up some of this shitshow:

Yes, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has Miranda protection. He doesn’t have protection against talking. Just what he says being used in evidence against him.

351 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:00:15am

re: #349 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

As an ex-boxer, I’d say that’s a guy about to pass the fuck out, someone who might answer “Tuesday” if you asked him who was president.

M-O-O-N. That spells onion.

352 efuseakay  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:01:34am

re: #327 Decatur Deb

BTDT:

gwu.edu

Bingo. And lets not forget the IRA stuff that happened here too. Maybe not with bombs persay. But bullets are just as effective.

353 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:03:20am
354 BongCrodny  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:04:32am

re: #350 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

I’ve created a page that hopefully can clear up some of this shitshow:

Yes, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has Miranda protection. He doesn’t have protection against talking. Just what he says being used in evidence against him.

I could be remembering this incorrectly, but I seem to recall that when the discussions about Gitmo were hot and heavy, some folks on the right side of the spectrum were arguing that the Constitution did’t apply because those prisoners weren’t American citizens.

Now you’ve got a terrorism case *with* an American citizen and suddenly that whole Constitutional protection thing gets murky?

Can’t say I like that new interpretation very much.

355 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:06:45am

re: #354 BongCrodny

There’s no murkiness, though. They can’t use anything he says before he’s read his rights against him in a court of law. They can use it for other purposes.

The constitution applies, and he has Miranda protection. The big deal with the dudes at Guantanamo and the rest was never Miranda, it was habeas corpus and the right to an actual trial.

356 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:11:45am

re: #354 BongCrodny

Now you’ve got a terrorism case *with* an American citizen and suddenly that whole Constitutional protection thing gets murky?

I recall the same.

That’s OK. Conservatives are exempted from Hypocrisy because Get Holder.

357 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:13:41am

I’m listening to the Boston Red Sox pregame in Fenway with a great speech going on right now.

358 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:14:56am

There was no hand-wringing over whether or not James Holmes should be read his rights.

Adam Lanza’s rampage was not treated like an act of war.

Jared Lee Loughner. Tim McVeigh. I could on. No, these criminals, all of them, killed more people than the Boston Bombers. So what’s so different here that it’s an “act of war,” hmm?

359 Ming  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:17:23am

re: #1 Apeman

Listening to the President castigate much of the knee-jerk media and folks who want to suspend the constitution in favour of blood lust is a nice nightcap to this horrible episode.

May those officers never buy another beer.

Yes! It’s impressive, truly poignant, how this was handled in such an AMERICAN way. The authorities encouraged the suspect to surrender, instead of bombing the boat where he was hiding. The President encouraged us to have respect for the facts that would be coming in, not to jump to conclusions. And now the suspect is in custody and presumably will be interrogated in a civilized way, which may actually yield useful information. Of course, many on the right wing were a notable and disgraceful exception to all this, but my overall impression is: what a great constitutional system we have, and it worked really well.

360 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:17:30am

re: #358 Four More Tears

There was no hand-wringing over whether or not James Holmes should be read his rights.

Adam Lanza’s rampage was not treated like an act of war.

Jared Lee Loughner. Tim McVeigh. I could on. No, these criminals, all of them, killed more people than the Boston Bombers. So what’s so different here that it’s an “act of war,” hmm?

We allowed ourselves to be terrorized.

361 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:18:18am

Interesting…

362 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:19:02am

CNN QUITS BREAKING NEWS, BECOMES “CNN CLASSIC”

NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report)—In a sweeping format change that marks the end of an era for the nation’s first cable news outlet, CNN announced today that it would no longer air breaking news and would instead re-run news stories of the past “that we know we got right.”

The rebranded network, to début nationwide on Monday, will be called “CNN Classic.”

“Breaking news is hard,” said the newly installed CNN chief, Jeff Zucker. “You have to talk to sources, make sure their stories check out O.K., and then get on the air and not say anything stupid. I, for one, am thrilled to be getting out of that horrible business.”

CNN Classic will begin its broadcast day on Monday, Mr. Zucker said, “with round-the-clock coverage of Operation Desert Storm.”

Mr. Zucker did not indicate what impact the new format would have on such CNN stars as Wolf Blitzer, saying only, “I can’t promise that Wolf will be a part of CNN’s future, but he will continue to be a big part of our past.”

The CNN chief scoffed at reports that other cable news outlets had eclipsed his network once and for all, throwing down this gauntlet: “We are going to win May sweeps with Hurricane Katrina.”

LOL!

363 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:22:44am

re: #358 Four More Tears

There was no hand-wringing over whether or not James Holmes should be read his rights.

Adam Lanza’s rampage was not treated like an act of war.

Jared Lee Loughner. Tim McVeigh. I could on. No, these criminals, all of them, killed more people than the Boston Bombers. So what’s so different here that it’s an “act of war,” hmm?

The difference is politics. The Republican party is out of power, desperate and the people making noise, say Graham, are scared that the emotional babies who have taken over their party don’t think he’s enough of a screaming toddler.

Of course these people are aware of the obvious point I made, that terrorism is a great enough threat that at its highest potential, a criminal court system is not the appropriate tool for it, but they’re jumping the gun because they’re hysterical wingnuts who fear the precedent of sane people being in charge more than they fear anything else.

364 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:24:53am

Heh, that’s the dynamic:

“The Tea Party wants screaming babies in charge!”
Image: tumblr_lkk0baT76k1qbz5vgo1_400.jpg

365 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:25:12am

Oh hey, this happened.

366 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:25:31am

re: #355 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

To clarify, they can’t say anything he says before Miranda against him except if it directly relates to public safety. They can ask him if he has other bombs planted around the city and use any information from that against him. That’s the public safety exemption.

367 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:26:04am
368 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:26:21am

re: #336 TheAntichrist

Alex Jones and his mindless followers probably think there were no bombs at the marathon, and THEY (the secret cabal that controls the world, probably Jews) really crashed planes mini-drones into the crowd.

FTFY. ;)

369 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:26:22am

re: #363 stabby

The difference is politics. The Republican party is out of power, desperate and the people making noise, say Graham, are scared that the emotional babies who have taken over their party don’t think he’s enough of a screaming toddler.

Of course these people are aware of the obvious point I made, that terrorism is a great enough threat that at its highest potential, a criminal court system is not the appropriate tool for it, but they’re jumping the gun because they’re hysterical wingnuts who fear the precedent of sane people being in charge more than they fear anything else.

Criminal courts seem to be dealing with terrorism just fine to me.

370 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:27:57am

re: #369 Four More Tears

Is there a reason that you ignored my qualifier? “At its highest potential”?

Ignoring away a thread of argument is not, in fact, winning.

371 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:28:17am

lo friggin’ l

372 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:30:11am

re: #370 stabby

What’s the highest potential of terrorism, Stabby? Someone releasing gray goo?

373 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:31:04am

re: #366 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

To clarify, they can’t say anything he says before Miranda against him except if it directly relates to public safety. They can ask him if he has other bombs planted around the city and use any information from that against him. That’s the public safety exemption.

EXACTLY.

The public safety exception is intended to gather intelligence. It does NOT give the police carte blanche, and it does not mean the intelligence can be used against the suspect.

There’s so much misinformation and confusion going around about this, it gives me a headache.

374 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:32:24am

I can’t wait to hear his excuse of the video showing his son placing a bomb behind the 8 year old child he murdered.

375 efuseakay  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:33:54am

re: #358 Four More Tears

There was no hand-wringing over whether or not James Holmes should be read his rights.

Adam Lanza’s rampage was not treated like an act of war.

Jared Lee Loughner. Tim McVeigh. I could on. No, these criminals, all of them, killed more people than the Boston Bombers. So what’s so different here that it’s an “act of war,” hmm?

The SAUDI!

376 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:34:20am

re: #372 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Is it that you didn’t read my direct answers to that question the last time you posed it here and here or is it that you’re super fucking rude and willing to ignore argument and repeat the same rhetorical question forever?

377 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:34:21am

re: #373 Charles Johnson

It looks like specifically stuff about the public threats can be used— like, if you tell the cops you have another bomb somewhere, they can use that against you. I think the rationale here is that that there’s no real other path to discovery of a timely threat.

But the Holder memo that ‘expands’ this doesn’t really expand anything, it just says that after we’re done with public safety, we might want to interrogate further without Miranda even though we can’t use it against him.

378 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:34:51am

re: #376 stabby

Oh, well, sorry, you’re wrong, nuking a city is a lower potential threat than releasing gray goo is.

379 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:37:03am

God, either actually argue or shut up.

380 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:41:21am

re: #379 stabby

I am arguing. The highest potential, that, considering the force multiplier of technology you alluded to earlier, a terrorist can have is the destruction of the world by releasing a nanovirus plague. This is something we might actually have to deal with in the future, as technology advances.

Your basic premise lacks any substance to it. Courts have done a perfectly good case of prosecuting terrorists. The best way to gather information— which is establishing a rapport with the prisoner— isn’t constrained by civil imprisonment. There’s nothing to be gained by not dealing with this guy in criminal court.

If you think otherwise, then please explain, not assert, why.

381 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:43:12am

re: #380 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

You could work it out for yourself if you used your brain. It’s no different a case than war. Consider what would happen to a country that responded to an existential threat with police and court writs.

That you refuse to think it through is not my problem

382 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:44:31am

There’s a balance between the safety of the public and the rights of accused criminals.

When the threat to the public is greater the rights of the criminal can’t be allowed to count for as much.

383 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:46:05am

re: #381 stabby

You could work it out for yourself if you used your brain. It’s no different a case than war. Consider what would happen to a country that responded to an existential threat with police and court writs.

Well, if the threat was containable by police, I’d say it’d do fine. For example, if we had a dickbag trying to release gray goo, but the police caught him, we could put him on trial and then in jail.

I’m not seeing where the problem is there. Can you explain?

384 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:47:03am

re: #383 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

Uhuh, and if the police can’t contain the threat?

385 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:48:11am

re: #382 stabby

There’s a balance between the safety of the public and the rights of accused criminals.

When the threat to the public is greater the rights of the criminal can’t be allowed to count for as much.

The threats you’re talking about are a little beyond the means of two numbnuts buying pressure cookers from Walmart. It requires extensive organizations. And I happen to recall us dealing with one not too long ago. I think we took out their leader, most of their higher-ups, and they haven’t been much of a threat lately. Seems like whatever we’re doing is working to me.

386 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:48:45am

re: #384 stabby

Uhuh, and if the police can’t contain the threat?

What threat are you talking about here? The police could contain someone with gray goo, or a briefcase nuke, or thirty guys with anthrax, or what have you.

You also seem to be mixing up what we’re doing at the time of the threat with what happens after the guy is captured. Could you try being a bit more clear, instead of simply saying I should be able to figure it out?

387 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:49:13am

re: #370 stabby

Is there a reason that you ignored my qualifier? “At its highest potential”?

Ignoring away a thread of argument is not, in fact, winning.

Probably because it’s a justification, not a qualifier. It only provides an excuse for someone who wishes to sidestep the constitution.

There are no acts of terrorism that can not be handled by the criminal justice system. None.

Too bad so sad for you.

388 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:49:36am

At one point shipping was such a necessity for our country that we responded to piracy, not with arrests but with bounties pirate crews, dead, no trials necessary.

If shipping was really that necessary, then I suppose trying to arrest and try every pirate could have lead to a collapse of our economy.

389 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:51:05am

re: #382 stabby

There’s a balance between the safety of the public and the rights of accused criminals.

When the threat to the public is greater the rights of the criminal can’t be allowed to count for as much.

The rights in question are not the rights of the criminal—they belong to all of us, 300 million of us.

390 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:51:38am

re: #388 stabby

At one point shipping was such a necessity for our country that we responded to piracy, not with arrests but with bounties pirate crews, dead, no trials necessary.

If shipping was really that necessary, then I suppose trying to arrest and try every pirate could have lead to a collapse of our economy.

I’m pretty sure Maritime Law isn’t quite the same thing.

391 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:51:47am

re: #382 stabby

Bzzt. Wrong answer, thank you for playing & don’t forget you parting gifts.

392 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:52:17am

re: #389 Decatur Deb


And why did say, the Japanese attacking us at Pearl Harbor not have the same rights as 300 million of us?

393 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:53:47am

Why didn’t we respond to that with a letter to Japan calling for the arrest of all those involved and a promise that our courts would cooperate with their courts?

394 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:54:11am

re: #392 stabby

And why did say, the Japanese attacking us at Pearl Harbor not have the same rights as 300 million of us?

Ummm… wow, you’ve finally gotten to the real reason we have “war.” This is the part where you should be having an epiphany.

395 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:54:47am

Christ on a crutch, Stabby, the Troll last night had better arguments & more sense than you.

396 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:54:56am

re: #394 Four More Tears

I haven’t the foggiest notion what you think you just said.

397 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:55:06am

re: #392 stabby

And why did say, the Japanese attacking us at Pearl Harbor not have the same rights as 300 million of us?

If captured they would have the rights guaranteed by international conventions of the time, which are more generous than what Sen Graham has in mind for bomber-boy.

398 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:56:52am

re: #382 stabby

There’s a balance between the safety of the public and the rights of accused criminals.

When the threat to the public is greater the rights of the criminal can’t be allowed to count for as much.

‘Accused criminals’ are called ‘suspects’. Criminals are people who have been convicted.

399 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:57:09am

The point is that the rules of criminal procedures, those of evidence all the way to the rules on the use of force are calibrated to a situation rather different than terrorist attack, and it’s extremely foolish to pretend that away, just because the point was originally made by your political enemies.

And that is PRECISELY what you’re all up to. Transparently. You’re shallow.

400 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:57:47am

re: #388 stabby

At one point shipping was such a necessity for our country that we responded to piracy, not with arrests but with bounties pirate crews, dead, no trials necessary.

If shipping was really that necessary, then I suppose trying to arrest and try every pirate could have lead to a collapse of our economy.

Er, there wasn’t any time when simply slaughtering captive pirates out of hand was deemed to be okay. And pirates got put on trial all the time. Do you really not know this?

401 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:57:55am

re: #397 Decatur Deb

If captured they would have the rights guaranteed by international conventions of the time, which are more generous than what Sen Graham has in mind for bomber-boy.

Why should I care what Sen Graham screams?

402 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:58:40am

re: #400 Glenn Beck’s Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut

There was a time when we let non-officials do that slaughter for us. And we paid them

403 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:59:10am

re: #399 stabby

The point is that the rules of criminal procedures, those of evidence all the way to the rules on the use of force are calibrated to a situation rather different than terrorist attack, and it’s extremely foolish to pretend that away, just because the point was originally made by your political enemies.

And that is PRECISELY what you’re all up to. Transparently. You’re shallow.

Uhhh—we’re challenging the decision of the Attorney General of the guy most of us just voted for. You’re losing clarity.

404 sugikoi  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:59:15am

re: #392 stabby

And why did say, the Japanese attacking us at Pearl Harbor not have the same rights as 300 million of us?

wait, what?

I am sorry, jumping in here so forgive me if I missed wider context but are you comparing the Japanese Navy to the 133 million Americans (including Japanese Americans who on the West Coast were violated)?

405 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 10:59:48am

re: #401 stabby

Why should I care what Sen Graham screams?

Because that’s the root of what we are talking about.

406 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:00:37am

re: #402 stabby

There was a time when we let non-officials do that slaughter for us. And we paid them

No, we commissioned privateers, if that’s what you mean, but they most definitely were officially privateers. They had that Ron Paul favorite, letters of marquee.

And really, in the history of our country we’re talking post 1800s, and the only significant pirates then were the Barbary pirates, who we fought an actual war with.

407 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:00:49am

re: #404 sugikoi

No of course I’m not. If you want that argument go bother twitchy

408 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:01:33am

re: #405 Decatur Deb

No, it’s not.

I’ve been making this argument since 9/11

409 sugikoi  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:02:09am

re: #407 stabby

No of course I’m not. If you want that argument go bother twitchy

Ok, like I said just jumped in.

410 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:02:51am

I’m going for breakfast, you can seeth among yourself that I dare leave

411 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:03:18am

re: #408 stabby

Can you just be clear about what time period in the history of our country you’re talking about when totally unofficial people were out there slaughtering pirate crews? Are you talking about privateers when you talk about them being ‘unofficial’? And by killing the whole pirate crew, are you just talking about, y’know, shooting the fuck out of their ship, or actually executing them en masse afterwards?

But most important, when are you talking about?

412 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:03:27am

re: #410 stabby

I’m going for breakfast, you can seeth among yourself that I dare leave

Umm… we really don’t care.

Ciao!

413 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:03:30am

re: #410 stabby

Have a nice breakfast!

414 stabby  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:04:36am

:3 been invited to coffee

415 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:04:51am

re: #408 stabby

No, it’s not.

I’ve been making this argument since 9/11

Been a whole lot of unconstitutional, morally wrong & simply illegal shit done since 9/11 via that argument. It was as wrong then as it was when Sen Graham pissed on the constitution last night.

416 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 20, 2013 11:05:19am

Seethe?? Seethe? I’ll show you seethe…

(Joe Pesci voice)


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