Boston Bombing Suspects Planned July 4th Attacks, Were Inspired by Al-Awlaki

The poisonous legacy of Anwar al-Awlaki
US News • Views: 28,609

Interesting new details on the plans and motivations of the Tsarnaev brothers: Boston Bombing Suspects Planned Fourth of July Attacks, Source Says.

The brothers finished building the bombs in Tamerlan’s apartment in Cambridge, Mass., faster than they anticipated, and so decided to accelerate their attack to the Boston Marathon on April 15, Patriots’ Day in Massachusetts, from July, according to the account that Dzhokhar provided authorities. They picked the finish line of the marathon after driving around the Boston area looking for alternative sites, according to this account.

In addition, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has told authorities that he and his brother viewed the Internet sermons of Anwar al-Awlaki, a radical American cleric who moved to Yemen and was killed in September 2011 by an American drone strike. There is no indication that the brothers communicated with Mr. Awlaki before his death.

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420 comments
1 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:24:33pm

Once again demonstrating their poor decision-making skills, right here.

There would have been far fewer doctors on hand for the 4th of July, likely resulting in a higher death toll. From an evaluation of efficicacy, they screwed up big time in shifting the detonation time/location.

I am thankful that they were incapable of actually thinking things through, because it means the death toll was lower. It’s a small comfort to those injured or who lost loved ones, though.

2 darthstar  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:25:03pm

They also planned on seeing the new Star Trek movie when it came out. That ain’t happening either.

3 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:33:47pm

Anwar al-Awlaki is still training deadly terrorists from the grave.

4 austin_blue  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:35:59pm

Three people are killed and a police officer is killed in Boston and the country goes batshit, but eight first responders and seven other people are killed in an industrial accident are killed in West, Texas and the country goes “meh”.

Odd, innit?

5 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:39:57pm

re: #4 austin_blue

Three people are killed and a police officer are killed in Boston and the country goes batshit, but eight first responders and seven other people are killed in an industrial accident are killed in West, Texas and the country goes “meh”.

Odd, innit?

The explosion in West has significantly higher consequences for our nation as a whole than what happened in Boston, but is significantly less ‘newsworthy’ by the American public’s fickle attention span.

I would be surprised if there aren’t some Republicans and/or industrial folks that are very thankful that Boston sucked up the national media attention. It saved them a whole bunch of uncomfortable conversations about zoning and industrial regulations.

6 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:40:04pm

re: #4 austin_blue

Three people are killed and a police officer are killed in Boston and the country goes batshit, but eight first responders and seven other people are killed in an industrial accident are killed in West, Texas and the country goes “meh”.

Odd, innit?

Not at all. Many people did not go ‘meh’. They immediately looked for a brown person/immigrant/mulsim to blame .

7 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:41:18pm

I am having a hard time believing Tamerlan’s wife didn’t know they were building bombs in her apartment.

8 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:43:07pm

re: #7 NJDhockeyfan

I am having a hard time believing Tamerlan’s wife didn’t know they were building bombs in her apartment.

She apparently worked 60 to 80 hours a week. She might not have noticed if someone took all the furniture as long as they left the bed for her to fall into.
On the other hand, she might have known, I’m just sayin’ it wouldn’t be beyond belief if she didn’t.

9 Stanghazi  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:44:41pm

Interesting thing I read about the hospitals being so equipped for the injuries: it was shift change, so when casualties were arriving the hospitals were double staffed.

10 GeneJockey  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:44:48pm

re: #7 NJDhockeyfan

I am having a hard time believing Tamerlan’s wife didn’t know they were building bombs in her apartment.

“Are you building an interociter?”

“NO!”

11 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:46:01pm

re: #6 calochortus

Not at all. Many people did not go ‘meh’. They immediately looked for a brown person/immigrant/mulsim to blame .

The entire MSM and the country are paying more attention to news of a terrorist attack in Boston because of a brown person/immigrant/mulsim? Really?

WOW.

12 austin_blue  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:46:28pm

re: #5 klys

The explosion in West has significantly higher consequences for our nation as a whole than what happened in Boston, but is significantly less ‘newsworthy’ by the American public’s fickle attention span.

I would be surprised if there aren’t some Republicans and/or industrial folks that are very thankful that Boston sucked up the national media attention. It saved them a whole bunch of uncomfortable conversations about zoning and industrial regulations.

Ding ding ding!

13 kirkspencer  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:46:58pm

re: #11 NJDhockeyfan

The entire MSM and the country are paying more attention to news of a terrorist attack in Boston because of a brown person/immigrant/mulsim? Really?

WOW.

reread what he said. He said they looked for someone on which to blame the Texas explosion.

14 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:50:06pm

re: #11 NJDhockeyfan

Sorry I wasn’t clear-some wingnuts thought that the West explosion-especially since it was followed by barge explosion in Mobile-must have been part of an evil plot perpetrated by their usual suspects.

15 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:50:16pm

re: #8 calochortus

She apparently worked 60 to 80 hours a week. She might not have noticed if someone took all the furniture as long as they left the bed for her to fall into.
On the other hand, she might have known, I’m just sayin’ it wouldn’t be beyond belief if she didn’t.

I just can’t see someone waking up in the morning, eating, showering, dressing, going to work, coming back home, eating, taking care of the kids, etc…and not noticing bombs being built in the apartment. I know she worked a lot but still, how does one not notice that?

16 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:50:40pm

re: #13 kirkspencer

I’m a “she”-which you naturally wouldn’t have any way to know.

17 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:50:48pm

re: #8 calochortus

She apparently worked 60 to 80 hours a week. She might not have noticed if someone took all the furniture as long as they left the bed for her to fall into.
On the other hand, she might have known, I’m just sayin’ it wouldn’t be beyond belief if she didn’t.

This is also a guy who had at least one domestic violence complaint against him in the past, from what I remember reading.

18 GeneJockey  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:50:49pm

re: #4 austin_blue

Three people are killed and a police officer are killed in Boston and the country goes batshit, but eight first responders and seven other people are killed in an industrial accident are killed in West, Texas and the country goes “meh”.

Odd, innit?

I wish it were. The entirely preventable Texas explosion seems to have been filed under “Nobody could have predicted”, while the nearly-impossible-to-predict Boston bombing is seen as something we should be have known about.

19 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:51:38pm

re: #15 NJDhockeyfan

If you aren’t there for 10 hours a day, every day, a lot can happen that you miss.

20 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:52:20pm

re: #15 NJDhockeyfan

I just can’t see someone waking up in the morning, eating, showering, dressing, going to work, coming back home, eating, taking care of the kids, etc…and not noticing bombs being built in the apartment. I know she worked a lot but still, how does one not notice that?

While it’s pretty clear they were pretty incompetent, I would think they knew enough to not leave them lying on the table.

21 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:53:16pm

re: #17 klys

This is also a guy who had at least one domestic violence complaint against him in the past, from what I remember reading.

I believe so.

22 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:53:52pm

re: #18 GeneJockey

I wish it were. The entirely preventable Texas explosion seems to have been filed under “Nobody could have predicted”, while the nearly-impossible-to-predict Boston bombing is seen as something we should be have known about.

This. Isn’t the human mind a wonderous thing? /

23 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:54:47pm

re: #22 calochortus

This. Isn’t the human mind a wonderous thing? /

Willful ignorance is bliss!

//

24 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:55:13pm

re: #19 calochortus

If you aren’t there for 10 hours a day, every day, a lot can happen that you miss.

Yes but do you think she might notice bomb parts in the apartment when she was home? That would kind of stand out don’t you think? I know it would here in my house.

25 kirkspencer  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:57:35pm

re: #16 calochortus

I’m a “she”-which you naturally wouldn’t have any way to know.

I shall strive to not forget in the future. If I do, pray pardon an old man’s poor memory and lack of clear vision through these tiny and twisted intertubes.

//

26 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:58:34pm

re: #24 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but do you think she might notice bomb parts in the apartment when she was home? That would kind of stand out don’t you think? I know it would here in my house.

In a box or bag in her husband’s closet? Maybe, but maybe not. My husband has stuff I never look in.

27 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:59:12pm

re: #20 klys

While it’s pretty clear they were pretty incompetent, I would think they knew enough to not leave them lying on the table.

How does one hide 4 large pressure cookers, nails, fireworks, Vaseline, and the rest of the parts without anyone noticing them? Apartments don’t have much room to hide stuff.

28 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:59:19pm

re: #25 kirkspencer

LOL, I would never be offended by someone who doesn’t mean ill.

29 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 7:59:35pm

re: #24 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but do you think she might notice bomb parts in the apartment when she was home? That would kind of stand out don’t you think? I know it would here in my house.

Ok, seriously.

If you’re going to go after someone who is working 60-80 hours a week and has a 3 year old child for not asking questions to her husband for why he might have a pressure cooker, fireworks, and remote control cars, assuming she even noticed this between trying to care for basic needs and her kid - and keeping in mind this is a man who apparently doesn’t have an issue with getting violent towards women, possibly even her - why aren’t you going after the college roommate?

Why aren’t you asking what the roommate knew?

The fireworks were in a backpack in the room.

Clearly he must have known.

30 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:01:01pm

re: #26 calochortus

In a box or bag in her husband’s closet? Maybe, but maybe not. My husband has stuff I never look in.

A box of firecrackers, yes. These guys had a few more things to hide.

31 kirkspencer  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:01:39pm

re: #27 NJDhockeyfan

How does one hide 4 large pressure cookers, nails, fireworks, Vaseline, and the rest of the parts without anyone noticing them? Apartments don’t have much room to hide stuff.

In every house and apartment I’ve had, both before and after marriage, I’ve had a junk room filled with numerous ongoing (and in some cases permanently stalled) projects. My wife makes no attempt to straighten, and has learned that she can get me to clean and organize only (but sincerely) by threatening to just pitch in with shovel and dumpsters.

I could easily have had all this laying around, hiding the more incriminating items (the fireworks) without her knowledge.

32 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:03:06pm

re: #29 klys

Ok, seriously.

If you’re going to go after someone who is working 60-80 hours a week and has a 3 year old child for not asking questions to her husband for why he might have a pressure cooker, fireworks, and remote control cars, assuming she even noticed this between trying to care for basic needs and her kid - and keeping in mind this is a man who apparently doesn’t have an issue with getting violent towards women, possibly even her - why aren’t you going after the college roommate?

Why aren’t you asking what the roommate knew?

The fireworks were in a backpack in the room.

Your damn right the roommate should have known. And she didn’t know what they were up to? Sorry, I ain’t buying it.

33 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:04:11pm

re: #31 kirkspencer

I think I must have a lot in common with your wife, and you with my husband…

34 blueraven  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:04:50pm

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

Your damn right the roommate should have known. And she didn’t know what they were up to? Sorry, I ain’t buying it.

If she knew about it, the feds will find out.

35 Belafon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:04:52pm

re: #15 NJDhockeyfan

Like the lady who didn’t know that her husband had kept their daughter and some of his children/grandchildren locked in a room below their house for 15 years?

36 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:04:56pm

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

Your damn right the roommate should have known. And she didn’t know what they were up to? Sorry, I ain’t buying it.

I bet your wife has a hell of a time hiding Christmas presents from you.

37 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:07:04pm

re: #34 blueraven

If she knew about it, the feds will find out.

But in the meantime it’s totally legit to speculate on the Internets that she totally must have known because it’s possible! Just like it’s possible that that Brown student was a suspect because he kind-of-sort-of looked like the photos!

//

I would like to see half this outrage directed towards the college roommate. Until that happens, I smell something that vaguely stinks of misogyny with a little bit of “but she’s Muslim now” tied in.

38 kirkspencer  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:07:05pm

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

Your damn right the roommate should have known. And she didn’t know what they were up to? Sorry, I ain’t buying it.

Are you married? If so, do you know everything she’s got tucked away in the residence? Are you sure?

39 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:07:53pm

Okay, playing New Vegas, and got to the Strip. Suddenly, Brahmin with NCR Trooper chasing it are running down the strip.

Wat?

40 Varek Raith  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:09:12pm

re: #39 ProBosniaLiberal

Okay, playing New Vegas, and got to the Strip. Suddenly, Brahmin with NCR Trooper chasing it are running down the strip.

Wat?

Owed him money.

41 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:10:06pm

re: #31 kirkspencer

In every house and apartment I’ve had, both before and after marriage, I’ve had a junk room filled with numerous ongoing (and in some cases permanently stalled) projects. My wife makes no attempt to straighten, and has learned that she can get me to clean and organize only (but sincerely) by threatening to just pitch in with shovel and dumpsters.

I could easily have had all this laying around, hiding the more incriminating items (the fireworks) without her knowledge.

I have a lot of stuff in my wood shop out back. My wife wouldn’t think twice about most of the bomb ingredience laying around but 4 pressure cookers would kinda stand out as unusual. She would want to know what I planned on cooking.

42 blueraven  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:10:54pm

re: #37 klys

But in the meantime it’s totally legit to speculate on the Internets that she totally must have known because it’s possible! Just like it’s possible that that Brown student was a suspect because he kind-of-sort-of looked like the photos!

//

I would like to see half this outrage directed towards the college roommate. Until that happens, I smell something that vaguely stinks of misogyny with a little bit of “but she’s Muslim now” tied in.

I dont mind speculation about this. After all they were married, so I think there is more than just “brown person or being a Muslim”

43 Targetpractice  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:11:01pm

re: #39 ProBosniaLiberal

Okay, playing New Vegas, and got to the Strip. Suddenly, Brahmin with NCR Trooper chasing it are running down the strip.

Wat?

Might have been that hit of Psycho ya took.

//

44 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:12:57pm

re: #34 blueraven

If she knew about it, the feds will find out.

I have a feeling there is a lot of info in that computer.

45 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:14:26pm

re: #36 klys

I bet your wife has a hell of a time hiding Christmas presents from you.

Lol. She keeps them in the bedroom closet under some clothes. I pretend I don’t know.

46 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:14:32pm

re: #44 NJDhockeyfan

I have a feeling there is a lot of info in that computer.

I suspect you are right.

47 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:16:11pm

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

Lol. She keeps them in the bedroom closet under some clothes. I pretend I don’t know.

On the other hand, I have managed to successfully hide an non-trivial amount of things from my husband.

Up to and including a minifridge.

48 jaunte  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:16:38pm

South Carolina House passes nullification bill to make Obamacare a crime

“Derp spiro spero”

49 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:17:46pm

re: #15 NJDhockeyfan

I just can’t see someone waking up in the morning, eating, showering, dressing, going to work, coming back home, eating, taking care of the kids, etc…and not noticing bombs being built in the apartment. I know she worked a lot but still, how does one not notice that?

A husband can have an area in his house that his wife simply does not see a neeed to go into. In my parents house, that’s my dad’s tool bench and drawers. My mother has never gone looking in that small area, as she’s never seen a reason to do so.

50 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:18:19pm

re: #42 blueraven

I dont mind speculation about this. After all they were married, so I think there is more than just “brown person or being a Muslim”

If she was a stay-at-home mom, that would be one thing.

Having worked my share of way-too-long weeks without a small child in the bargain, I’m much less skeptical of the claim that she knows nothing.

51 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:19:47pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

A husband can have an area in his house that his wife simply does not see a neeed to go into. In my parents house, that’s my dad’s tool bench and drawers. My mother has never gone looking in that small area, as she’s never seen a reason to do so.

Yes, I have a shed for that. These guys lived in an apartment. Large bombs are hard to keep hidden in apartments IMO.

52 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:19:51pm

re: #48 jaunte

South Carolina House passes nullification bill to make Obamacare a crime

“Derp spiro spero”

Somewhere beyond our plain of existence, Andrew Jackson is once again regretting that he did not hang John C. Calhoun.

53 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:20:21pm

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, I have a shed for that. These guys lived in an apartment. Large bombs are hard to keep hidden in apartments IMO.

Some apartments do come with a storage area. My first one did.

54 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:20:40pm

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, I have a shed for that. These guys lived in an apartment. Large bombs are hard to keep hidden in apartments IMO.

The bombs weren’t large, though. The biggest fit into a medium-sized backpack.

55 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:23:09pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

The bombs weren’t large, though. The biggest fit into a medium-sized backpack.

Pressure cookers aren’t small like pipe bombs which would be much easier to hide. Especially 4 of them.

56 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:23:55pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

The bombs weren’t large, though. The biggest fit into a medium-sized backpack.

And when I lived in apartment land, we still had a storage area in the basement that we could lock up.

I doubt they just left the bombs just sitting on the kitchen table with a “don’t touch!” sticky note on them when they weren’t working on them.

57 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:24:00pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

Somewhere beyond our plain of existance, Andrew Jackson is once again regretting that he did not hand John C. Calhoun.

I think you mean “hang John C Calhoun” what you have written could be taken all kinds of wrong ways.

58 blueraven  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:24:11pm

re: #50 klys

If she was a stay-at-home mom, that would be one thing.

Having worked my share of way-too-long weeks without a small child in the bargain, I’m much less skeptical of the claim that she knows nothing.

It could also be she was in total denial. I find it hard to believe there were no clues at all. But I have known women whose husbands were having affairs, practically in front of their face, yet they were always surprised and “the last one to know”

Or she could have known something was up and been too afraid to say anything. Many possibilities here.

59 Belafon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:26:30pm

re: #58 blueraven

And, as with my example above, she could have been so scared of him that she “stayed away,” meaning that he let it be known that it was none of her business what he was doing.

60 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:26:44pm

re: #58 blueraven

It could also be she was in total denial. I find it hard to believe there were no clues at all. But I have known women whose husbands were having affairs, practically on front of their face, yet they were always surprised and “the last one to know”

Or she could have known something was up and been afraid to say anything. Many possibilities here.

It’s true.

I won’t deny that one possibility is that she knew and was involved. Another possibility is that she knew but he threatened their child if she told anyone.

In the absence of other evidence, Occam’s razor makes me think that she probably didn’t put all the clues together, even if she saw the components.

61 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:27:45pm

re: #57 jamesfirecat

I think you mean “hang John C Calhoun” what you have written could be taken all kinds of wrong ways.

Thanks, now changed.

62 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:28:37pm

re: #58 blueraven

It could also be she was in total denial. I find it hard to believe there were no clues at all. But I have known women whose husbands were having affairs, practically in front of their face, yet they were always surprised and “the last one to know”

Or she could have known something was up and been afraid to say anything. Many possibilities here.

That is much more believable. He did abuse her and she might have been scared to say anything about what they were doing.

63 calochortus  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:29:48pm

re: #60 klys

Taken by themselves the components are possibly a bit odd (the four pressure cookers) but not sinister. Fireworks, nails, model car components, Vaseline? Lots of people have various combinations of those.

Anyway, I’d better take care of a few things, so have a good night, all.

64 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:31:51pm

re: #62 NJDhockeyfan

If he abused her, than I am happy he Tamerlan is dead. Abusing women makes me angry.

65 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:32:23pm

re: #63 calochortus

Taken by themselves the components are possibly a bit odd (the pressure cookers) but not sinister. Fireworks, nails, model car components, Vaseline? Lots of people have various combinations of those.

Anyway, I’d better take care of a few things, so have a good night, all.

We don’t have a pressure cooker, but that is mostly because canning isn’t my forte (although I plan to try jam in a jar at some point). My grandparents probably have a least two though. Fireworks aren’t legal here and I have a healthy respect for explosives so we don’t have any of those. But the other three? No model car components but plenty of other electronic bits. Vaseline is probably in the medicine cabinet, and nails are in the garage. And on top of the bookshelf. And in one of the kitchen cabinets.

66 bratwurst  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:38:44pm

Your daily false flag alert:

Beck On Houston Airport Shooting: ‘I Could Guarantee You This Is A Set-Up’

67 blueraven  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:41:36pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Your daily false flag alert:

Beck On Houston Airport Shooting: ’ I Could Guarantee You This Is A Set-Up’

FACEPALM

Look to the uber-left!

68 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:42:21pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Your daily false flag alert:

Beck On Houston Airport Shooting: ’ I Could Guarantee You This Is A Set-Up’

Lol. Alex Jones is probably saying the same thing.

69 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:44:08pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Your daily false flag alert:

Beck On Houston Airport Shooting: ’ I Could Guarantee You This Is A Set-Up’

To ask the conspiracists own question: “Qui Bono?” (Who Benefits?) What does any hidden faction gain from some loser firing a couple shots into the air in a public place before offing himself? No one else was hurt so there won’t be any public panic or outrage. Except for those who were near the incident or know someone who was, this’ll be forgotten in a week.

70 GeneJockey  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:48:50pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Your daily false flag alert:

Beck On Houston Airport Shooting: ’ I Could Guarantee You This Is A Set-Up’

Oh, for cryin’ in a bucket!

71 abolitionist  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:52:45pm

Anwar al-Awlaki

Died September 30, 2011 (aged 40)
al-Jawf Governorate, Yemen[3]
Cause of death Hellfire missile
Residence Yemen

I was curious about that date, compared to this one:

Did Boston bomber murder his ‘only American friend’ in horrific triple killing in 2011?

But contact stopped when Mess and two other men - Raphael Teken and Erik Weissman - were murdered on September 12, 2011.

Sep 12 was shortly before the demise of Anwar al-Awlaki. However,

American drones deployed to target Yemeni terrorist - 02 May 2010

Anwar al-Awlaki Targeted By U.S. Drones - May 6, 2011
[edit]

Less than a week after Navy SEALs killed Osama bin Laden in a raid in Pakistan, U.S. drones have tried to killed radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen, according to U.S. officials.

Wish I had more info on the timeline of Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s radicalization.

72 Kragar  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:57:06pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Your daily false flag alert:

Beck On Houston Airport Shooting: ’ I Could Guarantee You This Is A Set-Up’

FARCE FRAG!

73 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:58:42pm

re: #72 Kragar

FARCE FRAG!

Farce certainly describes what some of this has degenerated into…

74 Stanghazi  Thu, May 2, 2013 8:59:26pm

When animals attack - Alaska edition

75 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:00:08pm

So, while at the NCR Hoover Dam, I ran across Mr. Fantastic. As my most hated in the NCR, I fixed him.

With a grenade in his pants, took out one bystander unfortunately.

76 Joanne  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:00:43pm

re: #65 klys

When I bought a house a few years ago, after moving in, I discovered the stove didn’t work and I didn’t have enough dough to buy a new one. I used my pressure cooker for all meals for six weeks. I still use it all the time. It’s the best invention ever.

Mine is very high end (it was a gift) and I can’t sing its praises enough. I haven’t used a crock pot in years. This thing puts a crock to shame.

77 blueraven  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:05:26pm

re: #76 Joanne

When I bought a house a few years ago, after moving in, I discovered the stove didn’t work and I didn’t have enough dough to buy a new one. I used my pressure cooker for all meals for six weeks. I still use it all the time. It’s the best invention ever.

Mine is very high end (it was a gift) and I can’t sing its praises enough. I haven’t used a crock pot in years. This thing puts a crock to shame.

Crocks are good for starting something before work and having dinner ready to eat when you get home.

78 goddamnedfrank  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:05:52pm

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, I have a shed for that. These guys lived in an apartment. Large bombs are hard to keep hidden in apartments IMO.

All apartments aren’t the same size or configuration. Some of them have these things called offices, spare bedrooms, etc. Some even come with outside storage lockers.

79 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:06:00pm

re: #76 Joanne

When I bought a house a few years ago, after moving in, I discovered the stove didn’t work and I didn’t have enough dough to buy a new one. I used my pressure cooker for all meals for six weeks. I still use it all the time. It’s the best invention ever.

Mine is very high end (it was a gift) and I can’t sing its praises enough. I haven’t used a crock pot in years. This thing puts a crock to shame.

We have one. My wife uses it for canning. It’s an old one and its very heavy.

80 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:06:51pm

re: #78 goddamnedfrank

All apartments aren’t the same size or configuration. Some of them have these things called offices, spare bedrooms, etc. Some even come with outside storage lockers.

Earlier CNN said it was a small apartment.

81 Dark_Falcon  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:07:21pm

Chinese Truck Maker advertises its new products designed to enable warlords and militias:

A Chinese truck maker (ZXAuto) is exploiting the favorable publicity it got two years ago during the Libyan rebellion and is now offering some of its light trucks with machine-gun mounts in the cargo compartment. ZXAuto is publicizing the wide use of its pick-up trucks by rebels during the 2011 fighting. This occurred because ZXAuto had managed to sell thousands of its pickup trucks to Libya over the last decade and the rebels did what rebels, and some soldiers, have been doing since the 1940s, by welding machine-gun mounts into the backs of light trucks and jeeps. At a recent trade shop in China ZXAuto showed models of some of its trucks with machine-gun mounts installed as factory options.

SNIP

While not a success in Iraq, and an invitation to a smart bomb or missile attack when used by the Taliban in Afghanistan, the technicals are still popular in Africa and other places where warlords are able to recruit and equip their own private armies. These are the kinds of markets Chinese weapons and auto makers go after. If you got the cash, the Chinese trader has what you want, no questions asked. For the Chinese this is even sweeter because Japanese pick-ups dominated this market for decades, but the Japanese never thought to provide the gun mounts as a factory option.

I’m at a loss for words to describe these merchant malefactors. Suggestions?

82 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:10:56pm

I gotta go to bed. My iPad is about to die. My battery has less than 10% left.

83 Joanne  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:11:31pm

re: #77 blueraven

Crocks are good for starting something before work and having dinner ready to eat when you get home.

Pressure cookers do the same, mine has high and low pressure (low is like a crock), and a timer. Or I can make a corned beef in 45-60 minutes, or a stew in 35; meat, cook 20 mins, add hard veggies, cook 7 mins, soft veggies, cook 5 mins. All in one pot. With mine, I can lock the lid on it, pull it out of the base, and pop it in the fridge. I really can’t express how awesome and versatile thus thing is.

84 abolitionist  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:13:44pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Chinese Truck Maker advertises its new products designed to enable warlords and militias:

SNIP

I’m at a loss for words to describe these merchant malefactors. Suggestions?

Zardozians ?

Youtube Video
85 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:21:25pm

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Oh, I dunno, I could see getting a quote for a diesel powered 4x4 with a DShK in the back ;) Be great fun for deer season O_o

86 engineer cat  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:24:42pm

re: #75 ProBosniaLiberal

So, while at the NCR Hoover Dam, I ran across Mr. Fantastic. As my most hated in the NCR, I fixed him.

With a grenade in his pants, took out one bystander unfortunately.

anything i can’t understand will automatically be classified as modern poetry

87 Stanghazi  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:49:11pm

re: #86 engineer cat

anything i can’t understand will automatically be classified as modern poetry

I just re-read it and yes, it has a definite poetic quality. Lol.

And with that, night all.

88 freetoken  Thu, May 2, 2013 9:59:43pm

For those interested in genetics, there is a short 10 week class on Coursera that started yesterday and you can still sign up for it:

Useful Genetics

I think you can sign up till next week.

89 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:00:02pm

yo lizardim

90 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:02:40pm

i miss wind up bird

91 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:03:53pm

Us in America need to be mindful of this:

Afghanistan 1950 vs. 2013

Under the right circumstances, over a millenium of societal progress can be erased in half a century. We should remember this in dealing with our own Christian Fundamentalists.

92 freetoken  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:04:19pm

Here’s the intro video for the class:

HTML5 Video
93 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:07:22pm

re: #91 ProBosniaLiberal

Us in America need to be mindful of this:

Afghanistan 1950 vs. 2013

Under the right circumstances, over a millenium of societal progress can be erased in half a century. We should remember this in dealing with our own Christian Fundamentalists.

That’s a powerful image. Not to say “it couldn’t happen here”, but you do have to question how widespread the “1950s” photo was across the country. My guess is that it wasn’t much like that outside Tehran, but what do I know?

94 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:10:03pm

re: #93 iossarian

Kabul, but point taken. However, Kabul looks like that too. If I were to give primary blame for how the country ended up like that, I would say the Pakistani and Soviet governments take the bulk of the blame. In that order. The Taliban is a largely Pakistani creation, after all.

95 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:13:09pm

re: #94 ProBosniaLiberal

Kabul, but point taken. However, Kabul looks like that too. If I were to give primary blame for how the country ended up like that, I would say the Pakistani and Soviet governments take the bulk of the blame. In that order. The Taliban is a largely Pakistani creation, after all.

Yes - Kabul. I don’t know that it’s that useful to assign blame though, other than to fundamentalists and power-hungry bastards of all stripes.

96 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:13:27pm

re: #94 ProBosniaLiberal

Another one. Afghanistan has lurched backwards.

97 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:13:53pm

re: #90 iossarian

i miss wind up bird

I, as well. I have heard rumours of SFZ’s return; perhaps he will too.

98 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:14:30pm

re: #95 iossarian

Thing is, Pakistan supported those fanatical nutjobs to the hilt. Ever hear of the Airlift of Evil?

99 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:18:41pm

re: #98 ProBosniaLiberal

Thing is, Pakistan supported those fanatical nutjobs to the hilt. Ever hear of the Airlift of Evil?

“Pakistan”. There are plenty of normal, non-psycho people in Pakistan.

Obviously the ruling class is somewhat messed up. On the other hand this is true of many places.

re: #97 William Barnett-Lewis

I, as well. I have heard rumours of SFZ’s return; perhaps he will too.

The price of awesome is but a trifle to a man of means. Let it be so.

100 klys  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:19:58pm

re: #95 iossarian

Yes - Kabul. I don’t know that it’s that useful to assign blame though, other than to fundamentalists and power-hungry bastards of all stripes.

The point of how widespread that level of advancement - and how long that advancement had been in place - is a very important one.

It is much easier to roll back the clock when people are still around who remember and long for “how it was” and when there are large numbers of people for whom that is not a significant jump backwards.

See: the progress backwards on abortion versus women’s suffrage (and yes, I do think there are people out there who would like to roll the clock back on that too).

101 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:24:00pm

re: #99 iossarian

When I say Pakistan, I mean their government. Shorthanding it.

I have a number of pakistani friends. But their government sucks donkey cajones.

102 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:26:15pm

re: #101 ProBosniaLiberal

When I say Pakistan, I mean their government. Shorthanding it.

I have a number of pakistani friends. But their government sucks donkey cajones.

Fair enough.

103 iossarian  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:28:39pm

Speaking of Pakistan, I see the rule of law suffers a little setback there today - not sure if already posted.

bbc.co.uk

Anyway - off to bed now. Sweet dreams everyone.

104 freetoken  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:36:09pm

Paged:

Useful Genetics - Free Open Course at Coursera starting May 1

105 abolitionist  Thu, May 2, 2013 10:54:49pm

2011 Waltham murders Excerpts:

Victims

Three men, Brendan Mess (age 25), Erik Weissman (31), and Raphael Teken (37), were discovered murdered in the early afternoon on September 12, 2011. They were found in Mess’s apartment at 12 Harding Avenue in Waltham, Massachusetts.[5][6][7][8][9][10]

All three victims were Jewish according to a number of sources, but the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported that only two, Weissman and Teken, were Jewish.[11][12][13][2][14] Weissman was outspoken about his Jewish faith, and an active member of his synagogue. Teken had majored in history at predominantly Jewish Brandeis University; he was buried in Israel.[15][16][13]

Mess was described by Tamerlan Tsarnaev as his best friend.[17][13][2][14]

…

Tamerlan Tsarnaev connection to victims

Tamerlan Tsarnaev had formerly described murder victim Brendan Mess, who lived a few blocks from him in Cambridge and was a year younger than Tamerlan, as his best friend.[28][2][41][13] Tsarnaev had been a regular visitor at Mess’s apartment where the murders took place, and authorities believe that at times Mess crashed at Tsarnaev’s apartment; at one point, they lived together as roommates.[33][2][28] Mess also brought Tamerlan with him to social events and fight events.[28] Investigators believe Tsarnaev was one of the last people to see Mess alive.[42]

Both men were boxers, and they were sparring partners spent hours training and sparring together beginning in 2009.[28][23][10][2][25] In 2011 Tamerlan had introduced Mess to John Allan, owner of Wai Kru Mixed Martial Arts in Allston, describing him as his “best friend”.[43][1] Tsarnaev, however, had stopped going to the martial arts center after Mess was murdered, and had not been back in years until March 2013 when he suddenly visited and acted rudely.[44][25]

…

Pinpointing the date and time of the murders

Questioning the date reported by officials, the relative said: “The three of them were definitely killed on Sept. 11…. They all stopped using their cellphones at about eight o’clock that night.”[37]

The last time anyone is known to have heard from the three victims was at 8:54 p.m. on September 11, 2011, when a call was placed by someone using Weissman’s cell phone to Gerry’s Italian Kitchen, a Watertown restaurant, for delivery of three dinner entrees.[28] When a delivery woman arrived at 9:14 p.m., there was no answer and no one answered when the restaurant called Weissman’s cell phone.[28]

Police now believe the killings took place on or around September 11, the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, based on text messages.[23][28]

These homicides apparently occured 10 years and 12 hours —plus/minus mere minutes —after the 2nd plane struck the WTC. [edit: Bolding is mine]

106 ProBosniaLiberal  Thu, May 2, 2013 11:19:09pm

Well, the first pic from the Series 7 Finale of Doctor Who has been released.

Spoiler

It lies here.

107 stabby  Thu, May 2, 2013 11:38:51pm

re: #2 darthstar

They also planned on seeing the new Star Trek movie when it came out. That ain’t happening either.

Favorited!

108 stabby  Thu, May 2, 2013 11:59:42pm

re: #99 iossarian

“Pakistan”. There are plenty of normal, non-psycho people in Pakistan.

Obviously the ruling class is somewhat messed up. On the other hand this is true of many places.

re: #97 William Barnett-Lewis

The price of awesome is but a trifle to a man of means. Let it be so.

The median person isn’t so “non-psycho”.
I know one Pakistani who quit Islam and applied for assylum status in Canada (and got it) after reacting badly to seeing his family celebrate and support the 9/11 attack. And his family isn’t even from the Sunni majority, they’re Ahmadis who are considered apostates and in danger for their lives from the majority.
You might take a look at the mass rallies in favor of the guy who killed a christian convert before telling us that Pakistanis are mostly non-psycho. There were lawyers rallying in favor of him.

109 stabby  Fri, May 3, 2013 12:02:12am

Though he’s not so non-psycho himself, he slowly became a wingnut after moving here…

110 freetoken  Fri, May 3, 2013 12:06:50am
MP3 Audio
111 stabby  Fri, May 3, 2013 12:30:07am

re: #6 calochortus

Not at all. Many people did not go ‘meh’. They immediately looked for a brown person/immigrant/mulsim to blame .

People always treat war and murder as more important than accidents and acts of God. If you think about why that would be, it’s not a mystery, at least not to people with ordinary emotions. Nor is a mystery from an evolutionary standpoint or a psychological one.

Everyone dies eventually, we can’t do anything about that. But we’re certainly stired up when our lives are deliberately stolen, and may be again in future.

I know that racism is a big factor in this country, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with why people will not stand being slaughtered.

112 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 12:54:16am

We live in a nuance-free age. The fact that these guys were losers and outsiders is overlooked: they were un-American and non-Christian and that is all we need no know to confirm our preconceived notions about these people.

113 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 2:35:08am

re: #108 stabby

That the majority of the population of Pakistan is non-psychotic is a trivially true statement.

114 abolitionist  Fri, May 3, 2013 2:47:46am

Lauren Season 2 Trailer | Featuring Troian Bellisario & Jennifer Beals

Anticipating the 4 new episodes later today.

115 mishael  Fri, May 3, 2013 3:24:50am

re: #3 NJDhockeyfan

At unn.edu.ng we were taught terrorism is not something that should be taken lightly.strict measures must be taken for peoples’ life to be secured.

116 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 3:28:44am

re: #115 mishael

On the other hand, the actual death toll from terrorists is low compared to other sources, so it’s important not to freak the hell out, too.

117 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 3:51:14am

Meanwhile, this Derp just happened:

PHOENIX (Reuters) - Arizona Governor Jan Brewer vetoed a measure on Thursday that would have made gold and silver legal tender in the state, saying the legislation could have resulted in lost tax revenue.

The Republican-controlled state legislature voted through the measure last month in a response to what backers said was a lack of confidence in the international monetary system.

www.yahoo.com

What Derp will be next?

118 Flounder  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:18:19am

Third beautiful day in a row here in upstate NY, with as many scooter rides to work. Another constant, Lindsay Lohan is still a hot mess. She can’t do ninety days in rehab. Hell I could do that standing on my head. Waaaah I wanna smoke, waaah daddy I don’t like this one, waaaaaaaaaaaah
nypost.com

119 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:24:23am

re: #111 stabby

..snip
Everyone dies eventually, we can’t do anything about that. But we’re certainly stired up when our lives are deliberately stolen, and may be again in future.

Getting the public to realize that willfully setting up an explosives accident, or sending WV miners into an underground deathtrap, is deliberately (statistically) stealing their lives is an educational task. The unions have been losing on that front since Nixon.

‘Morning, all

120 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:30:03am

You early morning Derp:

121 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:30:56am

Mr. Nothem HAZ BLOCKED BABUSHKA!!!1!!!!

122 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:33:55am

re: #120 Vicious Babushka

You early morning Derp:

That exchange is how you do ‘value-add’ with your derp-safaris. That’s so if you are getting these hits out to wider tweet/blog readers.

123 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:36:02am

re: #122 Decatur Deb

That exchange is how you do ‘value-add’ with your derp-safaris. That’s so if you are getting these echanges out to wider tweet/blog awareness.

I tweet the Derp and its antidote to the liberal hashtags and they retweet it.

124 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:36:57am

re: #123 Vicious Babushka

I tweet the Derp and its antidote to the liberal hashtags and they retweet it.

Any way to get it out of the choirloft?

125 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:40:03am

re: #124 Decatur Deb

Any way to get it out of the choirloft?

It goes to TGDN (the wingnuts) and UNITEBLUE (the anti-wingnuts).

126 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:40:28am

re: #116 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

On the other hand, the actual death toll from terrorists is low compared to other sources, so it’s important not to freak the hell out, too.

These numbers are not low as far as I’m concerned.

INCIDENTS OF TERRORISM, WORLDWIDE

Attacks worldwide
2007: 14,415
2008: 11,663
2009: 10,968
2010: 11,641
2011: 10,283

People killed, injured or kidnapped as a result of terrorism, worldwide 2007: 71,803
2008: 54,290
2009: 58,720
2010: 49,928
2011: 43,990

127 Usually refered to as anyways  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:41:20am

Some not so good news.

US military plane crashes in Kyrgyzstan

A US military refuelling plane from the country’s Manas airbase in Kyrgyzstan crashed after taking off on Friday, according to the country’s emergency situations ministry.

“According to my information, the plane broke up into three pieces. Information on the dead or wounded is being clarified. All the rescue services have gone to the scene,” the ministry’s press secretary Abdisharip Bekilov said.

The plane crashed near the mountain village of Chaldybar, around 200 kilometres from the capital Bishkek and close to the border with Kazakhstan, the emergency ministry spokesman said.

The press service at the US base, which serves troops in Afghanistan, told the Interfax news agency that it could not immediately confirm the information on the crash.

“We cannot confirm this information. It is being checked,” a spokesman told the agency.

More here…

128 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:43:46am

re: #126 NJDhockeyfan

These numbers are not low as far as I’m concerned.

You seem to have, as usual, been lazy and not bothered to actually read my comment.

Why do you half-ass stuff so much? Don’t you find value in diligence?

129 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:44:38am

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

Trying to think how to capture the items, especially the repeat offenders, into a permanent page where they could be used by anyone to send down their unique commo channels. Example was your Geller invite stuff to the Chabad world. I’m not the guy to be thinking this—never tweeted, rarely page.

130 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:47:43am

re: #129 Decatur Deb

Trying to think how to capture the items, especially the repeat offenders, into a permanent page where they could be used by anyone to send down their unique como channels. Example was your Geller invite stuff to the Chabad world. I’m not the guy to be thinking this—never tweeted, rarely page.

I don’t see as many Fake Quotes as I used to. That could mean that I may have got through on some level, or else maybe all the Fake Quote tweeters have blocked me.

This Mike Nothem guy has blocked me but I still see his Derp “NO PICTURES OF OBAMA!” being retweeted by others. It’s easier just to respond with a Google link.

131 steve_davis  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:48:19am

re: #2 darthstar

They also planned on seeing the new Star Trek movie when it came out. That ain’t happening either.

Depends. The dead brother is already eligible for the Antipope’s Wednesday movie night (last week, they tried a 3D movie, but it made Lucifer hurl), so he’ll not only get the new Star Trek movie, but he gets to watch both the future Hobbit movies without having to wait for their general release.

132 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:54:15am

re: #130 Vicious Babushka

I don’t see as many Fake Quotes as I used to. That could mean that I may have got through on some level, or else maybe all the Fake Quote tweeters have blocked me.

This Mike Nothem guy has blocked me but I still see his Derp “NO PICTURES OF OBAMA!” being retweeted by others. It’s easier just to respond with a Google link.

Our threads are very temporary, and even pages have a short half-life. Envisioning an indexed Snopes-like library that would return more derp-vaccine for each hunt.

133 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 4:55:13am

re: #128 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

You seem to have, as usual, been lazy and not bothered to actually read my comment.

Why do you half-ass stuff so much? Don’t you find value in diligence?

Yes I read your comment and quoted it. You may think terrorism death tolls are ‘low compared to other sources’ but I take these numbers seriously.

People killed as a result of terrorism, worldwide
2007: 22,720
2008: 15,709
2009: 15,311
2010: 13,193
2011: 12,533

134 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:01:31am

re: #133 NJDhockeyfan

Yes I read your comment and quoted it. You may think terrorism death tolls are ‘low compared to other sources’ but I take these numbers seriously.

Your comment is showing raw numbers. I’m saying that deaths from terrorism are low compared to other sources. If you want to try to prove me wrong, then bring up another source and compare it. Otherwise, nothing you’re saying in any way contradicts me and implying I don’t take death by terrorism seriously is stupid and insulting.

See, I’m talking abou things like industrial accidents, which kill 321,000 people every year. Another two million are killed every year by workplace-related diseases.

So tell me, is 12,533 big when compared to 321,000? Is it big when compared to 2.3 million?

135 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:02:05am

re: #132 Decatur Deb

Our threads are very temporary, and even pages have a short half-life. Envisioning an indexed Snopes-like library that would return more derp-vaccine for each hunt.

I don’t know if I want to put that much effort into building something like that. It only takes about 3 seconds to bring up the Google image search and I tag it on every time I see that Bush photo being reTweeted.

136 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:03:02am

re: #135 Vicious Babushka

There’s a bot out there that recognizes the cut-and-paste global warming denier arguments and responds with linked takedowns of the position. It’s an impressive feat.

137 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:04:48am

re: #136 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

There’s a bot out there that recognizes the cut-and-paste global warming denier arguments and responds with linked takedowns of the position. It’s an impressive feat.

That’s the sort of thing. We wouldn’t have to own it if we could feed it, and it kept up its credibility.

138 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:04:50am

I just got a reTweet of this (my response to the wingnut spamming of Reagan wiping his snot on the flag)

139 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:07:17am

re: #134 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Ask your wife about medical error, much of it preventable. “The number (nnn) killer is doctors and nurses.’

My favorite risk management slogan: “Ambulances kill people.”

140 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:10:23am

re: #139 Decatur Deb

Atul Gawande’s book “The Checklist Manifesto” is a brilliant one and it should be implemented in every operating room in the country.

In the end, even the best surgeon is going to kill a patient every X times. But then there’s deaths due to bad policy, bad practice, and doctors failing to keep current with best practices.

141 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:10:27am

BBIAB

142 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:13:01am

re: #134 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Your comment is showing raw numbers. I’m saying that deaths from terrorism are low compared to other sources. If you want to try to prove me wrong, then bring up another source and compare it. Otherwise, nothing you’re saying in any way contradicts me and implying I don’t take death by terrorism seriously is stupid and insulting.

See, I’m talking abou things like industrial accidents, which kill 321,000 people every year. Another two million are killed every year by workplace-related diseases.

So tell me, is 12,533 big when compared to 321,000? Is it big when compared to 2.3 million?

Yes I do. Although the deaths from terrorism are not nearly close to the accident or disease numbers I still consider them high.

143 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:14:00am

re: #140 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Atul Gawande’s book “The Checklist Manifesto” is a brilliant one and it should be implemented in every operating room in the country.

In the end, even the best surgeon is going to kill a patient every X times. But then there’s deaths due to bad policy, bad practice, and doctors failing to keep current with best practices.

Just poor recordkeeping, communication, and med administration carries off a lot. A lot of the fixes are coming from improved workplace engineering. I think you saw the story from 10 yrs back about the hospital that invited a racing team pit crew chief to review its surgical practices.

BBIAB fur reel.

144 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:17:46am

re: #142 NJDhockeyfan

Yes I do. Although the deaths from terrorism are not nearly close to the accident or disease numbers I still consider them high.

Now you’re just being obtuse on purpose.

Terrorism kills a relatively small number of people in horrific, attention-getting ways. What I said is that it’s important to take those deaths in context, because even though the deaths are dramatic, they are not high compared to other numbers.

For some reason, you’ve decided to fatuously interpret this as me saying that deaths from terrorism aren’t ‘high’ on their own, or that it’s not something to be taken seriously. I said neither of these things.

No matter what you think, the deaths from terrorism are not high compared to deaths from industrial accidents. They are not high compared to a lot of other things.

145 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:21:18am

re: #144 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Now you’re just being obtuse on purpose.

Terrorism kills a relatively small number of people in horrific, attention-getting ways. What I said is that it’s important to take those deaths in context, because even though the deaths are dramatic, they are not high compared to other numbers.

For some reason, you’ve decided to fatuously interpret this as me saying that deaths from terrorism aren’t ‘high’ on their own, or that it’s not something to be taken seriously. I said neither of these things.

No matter what you think, the deaths from terrorism are not high compared to deaths from industrial accidents. They are not high compared to a lot of other things.

Fridays are by obtuse days.

146 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:25:14am

Now for your listening pleasure here is something to make you laugh this morning.

CSPAN Faces Barrage Of Callers About Boston Bombing False Flag

Youtube Video
147 BongCrodny  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:29:24am

Just for comparison:

Annual rates of lightning fatalities by country

Holle and López (2003) made an assessment of the worldwide impact of lightning, and concluded that 24,000 deaths and 240,000 injuries occur per year.

I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about getting struck by lightning.

Perhaps I should.

148 A Mom Anon  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:29:31am

re: #146 NJDhockeyfan

Crazy nutbags have ruined CSPAN in the mornings for me. I used to love watching it, the occasional loony tune would call in, but it wasn’t insane like it is now. It’s ridiculous, some mornings these calls outnumber the sane calls 2 or 3 to 1.

149 BongCrodny  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:40:02am

re: #146 NJDhockeyfan

Now for your listening pleasure here is something to make you laugh this morning.

That host is a far, far more patient man than I am.

150 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:42:00am

The stock market is going to like this news. My 401k is smiling :)

151 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:44:13am

re: #150 NJDhockeyfan

The stock market is going to like this news. My 401k is smiling :)

Impossible, we all know Obama’s a Kenyan socialst that’s destroying the economy. How can it be improving?!

///

152 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:46:43am

re: #148 A Mom Anon

I haven’t seen CSPAN in a long time, but I always enjoyed the crazy and/or drunk callers.

Speaking of crazy drunks, the NRA convention in Houston starts today, and from the celebritard lineup on hand, it looks like a particularly awe-inspiring gathering of homunculi. Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, and of course Ted Nugent will be there, along with a “prayer breakfast” hosted by some guys that I wouldn’t buy a used car from. If they cross the streams, we’re all in trouble.

153 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:54:00am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Was perusing my Twitter feed this morning and noticed that Drudge was touting a story from Daily Currant about how Mayor Mike Bloomberg was denied a second slice of pizza from a NYC pizza place and that Bloomberg erupted into a profanity laced tirade.

Fake but accurate is the new Drudge standard. Wishful thinking doesn’t make it true. I’m no fan of Bloomberg, or his asinine soda ban, but a bogus story is still a bogus story, no matter how much schadenfreude it would hope to contain.

154 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 5:54:10am

Of course, you can already prepare for the wingnuts to harp on the participation rate in the new jobs numbers as they insist the “real” UE is far higher.

155 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:02:05am

re: #154 Targetpractice

Of course, you can already prepare for the wingnuts to harp on the participation rate in the new jobs numbers as they insist the “real” UE is far higher.

Right on schedule

156 Flounder  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:02:11am

I’m starting to feel guilty, my deferred comp is up 15% Whooo hoo!

157 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:04:17am

re: #154 Targetpractice

Of course, you can already prepare for the wingnuts to harp on the participation rate in the new jobs numbers as they insist the “real” UE is far higher.

158 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:06:58am

DERP.
Because accidents are the exact same thing as murder!

159 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:07:23am

re: #157 Vicious Babushka

When any number goes down, it’s Obama’s fault and we’re doomed. When any number goes up, we’re doomed and it’s Obama’s fault.

160 A Mom Anon  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:08:35am

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

How many of those suicides are via handguns?

161 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:08:41am

re: #157 Vicious Babushka

35 years ago, we had a far younger population, were still growing strongly, and were still the world’s leader in the production of finished goods. What’s happening now that wasn’t happening 35 years ago? Oh right, the Boomers are beginning to retire, many choosing early retirement due to a lack of jobs for the 50+ crowd.

162 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:09:45am

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

DERP.
Because accidents are the exact same thing as murder!

It’s a good point, in its way. A lot of those auto accidents are preventable— drunk driving, for example. That doesn’t mean we can’t take gun deaths seriously too, just by acknolwedging that they’re proportionally smaller.

163 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:10:05am

re: #161 Targetpractice

35 years ago, we had a far younger population, were still growing strongly, and were still the world’s leader in the production of finished goods. What’s happening now that wasn’t happening 35 years ago? Oh right, the Boomers are beginning to retire, many choosing early retirement due to a lack of jobs for the 50+ crowd.

SSsshhh. Statistics has a left-wing bias.

164 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:10:27am

re: #150 NJDhockeyfan

The stock market is going to like this news. My 401k is smiling :)

Even better are the upward revisions for March & April EDIT: February & March
114,000 more jobs than originally reported for those two months

165 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:10:57am

1.6 million people died of cancer in 2010. BAN CANCER NOT GUNZ!!11!!

166 Mattand  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:11:30am

Early morning puppy break

167 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:11:57am

re: #165 Vicious Babushka

On the other hand, the gun death rate favorably impacts the cancer death rate.

168 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:12:36am

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

Also, a lot of those suicides involved guns, and it’s demonstrably true that suicides without a gun are less common and successful.

169 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:13:22am

F&$king statistics—how do they work?

170 Mattand  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:13:34am

re: #167 Decatur Deb

On the other hand, the gun death rate favorably impacts the cancer death rate.

When cancer is outlawed from having guns, only guns will get outlawed cancer.

Wait, what?

171 darthstar  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:13:51am

Mornin’ everyone…

This is wrong. Don’t laugh.
Image: 543758_10200146498518001_1265628283_n.jpg

Yeah…I chuckled too. Who does shit like that though? Not that roadkill CAN’T be funny…it just shouldn’t.

172 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:15:20am

re: #162 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

It’s a good point, in its way. A lot of those auto accidents are preventable— drunk driving, for example. That doesn’t mean we can’t take gun deaths seriously too, just by acknolwedging that they’re proportionally smaller.

Not only are they preventable, they’re a small fraction of what they were a generation ago. One can’t begin to compare the safety of even a budget car today to the most expensive cars of the 50s. Seat belts, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns, padded dashes, and so forth have done a great deal to reduce the number of automobile-related deaths.

Perhaps what we need is an automobile version of the NRA to get out there, pounding the pulpits and screeching that any of those safety measures is an infringement of ones right to drive a car.

173 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:15:27am

re: #168 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Also, a lot of those suicides involved guns, and it’s demonstrably true that suicides without a gun are less common and successful.

When my FIL shot himself, we spent a lot of time in the world of a palliative care team. One outcome was surprise at the number of self-inflicted GSWs that are not successful. It’s about 10-16%, depending on how you count.

174 darthstar  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:16:32am

Maybe this is Fischer’s problem…he’s afraid of second hand penis.

huffingtonpost.com

175 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:16:58am

re: #172 Targetpractice

Not only are they preventable, they’re a small fraction of what they were a generation ago. One can’t begin to compare the safety of even a budget car today to the most expensive cars of the 50s. Seat belts, crumple zones, collapsible steering columns, padded dashes, and so forth have done a great deal to reduce the number of automobile-related deaths.

Perhaps what we need is an automobile version of the NRA to get out there, pounding the pulpits and screeching that any of those safety measures is an infringement of ones right to drive a car.

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. They have a deep personal interest—their sponsors payout the claims.

176 Mattand  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:17:11am

re: #171 darthstar

Mornin’ everyone…

This is wrong. Don’t laugh.
Image: 543758_10200146498518001_1265628283_n.jpg

Yeah…I chuckled too. Who does shit like that though? Not that roadkill CAN’T be funny…it just shouldn’t.

Hey, at least he died having a good time.

177 darthstar  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:19:14am

Speaking of good times, it’s time I took the boys to the beach for their Friday ritual (even though we went last night as it was so warm out).

178 wrenchwench  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:22:13am

Image: 396871_10151649914236081_1458838443_n.jpg

According to this dramatic map from KSHB-TV news in Kansas City, a broad band of gay people seems to be sweeping across the region.

179 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:23:38am

re: #164 blueraven

Everyone treats the current month unemployment figures as though they’re fixed in stone, even though the BLS adjusts the initial figures a couple of times in following months.

The initial figures do have value, but the revised figures are more accurate. You have to take a wholistic approach to them as they’re single data points - add to them the ADP figures, and you get a more complete picture of employment across the US. In total, the jobs situation is improving, albeit at a slow pace. The pace is affected by government reduction in jobs at all levels, plus the slash and burn of the sequester.

I’ve seen in various places that had the government not shed all the jobs it did, the unemployment rate would be a full point lower than it is now.

180 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:24:00am

re: #178 wrenchwench

Image: 396871_10151649914236081_1458838443_n.jpg

Kermit tried to warn us about the Rainbow Connection, but we wouldn’t listen!
;p

181 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:24:19am

re: #178 wrenchwench

Image: 396871_10151649914236081_1458838443_n.jpg

That’s quite funny, but it looks like someone will have a bad day. is it current?

182 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:25:37am

re: #179 lawhawk

Everyone treats the current month unemployment figures as though they’re fixed in stone, even though the BLS adjusts the initial figures a couple of times in following months.

The initial figures do have value, but the revised figures are more accurate. You have to take a wholistic approach to them as they’re single data points - add to them the ADP figures, and you get a more complete picture of employment across the US. In total, the jobs situation is improving, albeit at a slow pace. The pace is affected by government reduction in jobs at all levels, plus the slash and burn of the sequester.

I’ve seen in various places that had the government not shed all the jobs it did, the unemployment rate would be a full point lower than it is now.

The public sector’s lost somewhere around 1-1.5 million jobs since the beginning of the Recession. If those jobs were still there, we’d be talking around 6% or lower UE. But we’d also have scores of Republicans screeching about deficits, debts, and how those public sector jobs are destroying the economy…oh wait, they’re doing that anyway.

183 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:25:50am

re: #179 lawhawk

Everyone treats the current month unemployment figures as though they’re fixed in stone, even though the BLS adjusts the initial figures a couple of times in following months.

The initial figures do have value, but the revised figures are more accurate. You have to take a wholistic approach to them as they’re single data points - add to them the ADP figures, and you get a more complete picture of employment across the US. In total, the jobs situation is improving, albeit at a slow pace. The pace is affected by government reduction in jobs at all levels, plus the slash and burn of the sequester.

I’ve seen in various places that had the government not shed all the jobs it did, the unemployment rate would be a full point lower than it is now.

Jobs are TPGOP’s #1 concern—gotta suppress those suckers like a Harlem polling place.

184 wrenchwench  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:29:04am

re: #181 Decatur Deb

That’s quite funny, but it looks like someone will have a bad day. is it current?

I think it’s more ‘Daily Currant’ than current. I stole it from Facebook.

Stole this one too:

Image: 163557_650977851595297_1157604703_n.jpg

185 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:31:34am

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Chinese Truck Maker advertises its new products designed to enable warlords and militias:

SNIP

I’m at a loss for words to describe these merchant malefactors. Suggestions?

Capitalists. There’s a market for their product, a demand for their supply. Let the invisible hand sort ‘em out.

186 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:31:52am

re: #184 wrenchwench

I think it’s more ‘Daily Currant’ than current. I stole it from Facebook.

Stole this one too:

Image: 163557_650977851595297_1157604703_n.jpg

Add peak helium to the science deniers’ guilt. One of our beautiful orbiting observatories just ran out. (Yeah—that one’s not their fault.)

187 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:36:32am

re: #157 Vicious Babushka

Everybody’s on Welfare/Food Stamps/getting unemployment!!111!!11

188 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:36:46am

It’s morning, it’s cold, it’s raing and just so you know:

God is Totally Cool with Lesbians.

189 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:37:14am
190 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:40:05am

re: #189 lawhawk

That’s wrong—the correct spelling is ‘whuupping’.

191 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:42:31am

re: #190 Decatur Deb

That’s wrong—the correct spelling is ‘whuupping’.

Don’t they can that stuff in Arkansas?

Image: WHupass.jpg

192 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:43:06am

re: #189 lawhawk

“The War of Northern Aggression”, down here in the south, is handy idenfitication shorthand for “I’m a racist sack of shit with no redeeming qualities”.

193 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:44:40am

re: #192 GunstarGreen

“The War of Northern Aggression”, down here in the south, is handy idenfitication shorthand for “I’m a racist sack of shit with no redeeming qualities”.

When we moved down from NJ, our kids were corrected in school for saying ‘Civil War’. The teachers must have been libs—they only insisted on ‘War Between the States”.

194 Mattand  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:45:45am

re: #192 GunstarGreen

“The War of Northern Aggression”, down here in the south, is handy idenfitication shorthand for “I’m a racist sack of shit with no redeeming qualities”.

I actually know people in NJ who use this term.

195 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:46:44am

re: #193 Decatur Deb

When we moved down from NJ, our kids were corrected in school for saying ‘Civil War’. The teachers must have been libs—they only insisted on ‘War Between the States”.

Having been through the public school system down here, I can say with 100% certainty that it is general policy to whitewash the civil war as being about anything but slavery, and at most a thing of equal fault on both sides, if not outright a northern invasion of the south.

That whole “fuck you yankees, we’re keeping our slaves and we’ll kill you to do so” thing gets glossed over.

196 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:46:50am

re: #194 Mattand

I actually know people in NJ who use this term.

Y’all need a border fence.

197 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:46:52am

re: #193 Decatur Deb

When we moved down from NJ, our kids were corrected in school for saying ‘Civil War’. The teachers must have been libs—they only insisted on ‘War Between the States”.

In truth, Civil War seems like a contradiction in terms—no?

198 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:48:32am

re: #195 GunstarGreen

Having been through the public school system down here, I can say with 100% certainty that it is general policy to whitewash the civil war as being about anything but slavery, and at most a thing of equal fault on both sides, if not outright a northern invasion of the south.

That whole “fuck you yankees, we’re keeping our slaves and we’ll kill you to do so” thing gets glossed over.

TARRIFFZ!!11

199 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:49:54am

re: #197 FemNaziBitch

In truth, Civil War seems like a contradiction in terms—no?

That might be a female perspective. My pacifist wife snorts at the idea of ‘The Law of War’, insisting that if she really needs to go to war there is absolutely no limit on conduct.

200 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:50:43am

re: #198 Vicious Babushka

If I’m remembering correctly, my particular school tried to justify it along the lines of the slave-dependant south being terribly outstripped in capacity by the industrialized north. Which was true, but absolutely no excuse for treating other humans as chattel.

201 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:51:37am

re: #199 Decatur Deb

That might be a female perspective. My pacifist wife snorts at the idea of ‘The Law of War’, insisting that if she really needs to go to war, there is absolutely no limit on conduct.

The reason for a law of war, for limits on conduct, is that while eventually the war will end the memory does not.

202 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:54:01am

DERP

203 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:54:24am

re: #200 GunstarGreen

If I’m remembering correctly, my particular school tried to justify it along the lines of the slave-dependant south being terribly outstripped in capacity by the industrialized north. Which was true, but absolutely no excuse for treating other humans as chattel.

That’s one I’ve often heard, usually in conjunction with “The North didn’t want n(clang!)s to be free anyhow!,” citing the worry amongst whites in the North that freemen would compete with them for factory jobs and be able to undercut them in terms of wages. About how Lincoln didn’t believe the war to be one over slavery, but simply adopted such with the Emancipation Proclamation to make the North’s aggression morally “justified.” And how the North had pushed the South into war by refusing to abide by the Fugitive Slave Laws.

204 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:57:24am

re: #201 kirkspencer

The reason for a law of war, for limits on conduct, is that while eventually the war will end the memory does not.

That’s only a consideration if there are survivors. Knew she was a berserker when i married her.

205 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:57:30am

re: #202 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Can we thank Obama for our 401K’s too, as the Dow creeps toward 15,000 today?

206 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:58:13am

I’m sure Car Guy is TOTALLY GONNA BLOCK ME NOW

207 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:58:18am

re: #194 Mattand

I actually know people in NJ who use this term.

But that’s in context of the North Jersey versus South Jersey battle wages down the Shore. /

208 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:59:11am

re: #197 FemNaziBitch

In truth, Civil War seems like a contradiction in terms—no?

What’s so civil about a civil war anyways. /axl rose

209 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 6:59:28am

re: #205 blueraven

Can we thank Obama for our 401K’s too, as the Dow creeps toward 15,000 today?

Nah. The stock market is only a relevant measure of presidential performance when it’s going down.

I still remember Hannity carping like a fat, bloated cod about the DOW nearly every day back in 2008 when it was going down. He shut his disgusting porthole the second it started going back up and never mentioned it again.

210 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:00:41am

re: #203 Targetpractice

That’s one I’ve often heard, usually in conjunction with “The North didn’t want n(clang!)s to be free anyhow!,” citing the worry amongst whites in the North that freemen would compete with them for factory jobs and be able to undercut them in terms of wages. About how Lincoln didn’t believe the war to be one over slavery, but simply adopted such with the Emancipation Proclamation to make the North’s aggression morally “justified.” And how the North had pushed the South into war by refusing to abide by the Fugitive Slave Laws.

A once-taught thesis is that New Orleans made peaceful seccession impossible, that there was no way a rival country could control the Mississippi’s mouth.

211 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:01:05am

re: #209 GunstarGreen

Nah. The stock market is only a relevant measure of presidential performance when it’s going down.

I still remember Hannity carping like a fat, bloated cod about the DOW nearly every day back in 2008 when it was going down. He shut his disgusting porthole the second it started going back up and never mentioned it again.

Last month Fox News harped on the bad jobs number for days…today, not so much.

212 AlexRogan  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:01:12am

re: #208 lawhawk

What’s so civil about a civil war anyways. /axl rose

FTFY ;-P

213 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:02:35am

re: #203 Targetpractice

That’s one I’ve often heard, usually in conjunction with “The North didn’t want n(clang!)s to be free anyhow!,” citing the worry amongst whites in the North that freemen would compete with them for factory jobs and be able to undercut them in terms of wages. About how Lincoln didn’t believe the war to be one over slavery, but simply adopted such with the Emancipation Proclamation to make the North’s aggression morally “justified.” And how the North had pushed the South into war by refusing to abide by the Fugitive Slave Laws.

I’m sure that the South refusing to abide to the results of a national election had absolutely nothing to do with it.
/

214 sagehen  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:05:18am

re: #203 Targetpractice

And how the North had pushed the South into war by refusing to abide by the Fugitive Slave Laws.

You mean how Pennsylvania and Massachussetts were declaring their states’ rights??

215 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:05:50am

re: #203 Targetpractice

That’s one I’ve often heard, usually in conjunction with “The North didn’t want n(clang!)s to be free anyhow!,” citing the worry amongst whites in the North that freemen would compete with them for factory jobs and be able to undercut them in terms of wages. About how Lincoln didn’t believe the war to be one over slavery, but simply adopted such with the Emancipation Proclamation to make the North’s aggression morally “justified.” And how the North had pushed the South into war by refusing to abide by the Fugitive Slave Laws.

This, of all the things mentioned, is actually in the South Carolina Declaration that explains their decision to secede.

I’d like to say it all boils down to slavery. But in reality it’s the Tea Party excuse: “We have the right to do what we want and you (the federal government and the other states) have to let us do it even if you do outnumber us.” In this case what they wanted was slaves.

216 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:06:20am

re: #214 sagehen

You mean how Pennsylvania and Massachussetts were declaring their states’ rights??

Yeah, you notice how the advocates of “states rights” only like to invoke it when talking about the right of states to keep fellow humans in bondage, rather than whether a state has the right to refuse to return those who escape back to said bondage.

217 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:08:13am

re: #204 Decatur Deb

That’s only a consideration if there are survivors. Knew she was a berserker when i married her.

There are always survivors.

218 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:10:02am

This is my favorite bit of confederate BS: While the US constitution really was a little vague on seccession, this is the frickn’ Preamble to the confederate one.

Preamble

We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America.

219 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:12:07am

re: #192 GunstarGreen

“The War of Northern Aggression”, down here in the south, is handy idenfitication shorthand for “I’m a racist sack of shit with no redeeming qualities”.

In my part of the South, it’s called “That Recent Unpleasantness”.
4 reelz…

220 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:12:13am

How young is too young to shoot? When the rifle is longer than you’re tall? When the parent is more concerned about your aim than actual gun safety knowledge imparted?

Mind you, this piece by NBC News comes on the heels of a 5 year old shooting and killing his 2 year old sister in KY accidentally with his .22 rifle.

221 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:12:22am

re: #215 kirkspencer

This, of all the things mentioned, is actually in the South Carolina Declaration that explains their decision to secede.

I’d like to say it all boils down to slavery. But in reality it’s the Tea Party excuse: “We have the right to do what we want and you (the federal government and the other states) have to let us do it even if you do outnumber us.” In this case what they wanted was slaves.

Hell, better yet, what does it accuse the North of doing that pushed it into leaving the Union? Oh, right, passing laws to nullify federal laws in part or toto. In short, the sort of shit that the “states rights” crowd argues today is their only means of preventing “federal overreach” were the reasons cited by the South as motivation for their secession.

222 DisturbedEma  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:14:30am

re: #220 lawhawk

I saw that story- I was surprised to learn there was a company that made guns specifically for children…mind blown

223 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:14:48am

re: #221 Targetpractice

Hell, better yet, what does it accuse the North of doing that pushed it into leaving the Union? Oh, right, passing laws to nullify federal laws in part or toto. In short, the sort of shit that the “states rights” crowd argues today is their only means of preventing “federal overreach” were the reasons cited by the South as motivation for their secession.

Even then, a lot of “we can do it but you can’t”. IOKIYArS(outhern)

224 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:15:47am

re: #222 DisturbedEma

I saw that story- I was surprised to learn there was a company that made guns specifically for children…mind blown

According to a reliable lizard in yesterdays thread, they are not the only one.

225 sagehen  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:16:08am

Even granting they had a right to secede, here’s a condensed version of timeline:

1. Bunch of southern states secede, form the confederacy.
2. Confederacy starts a war with their northern neighbor country United States by attacking Fort Sumter and DECLARING WAR!! Out loud, in public, and in writing. They weren’t shy about it.
3. Confederacy loses war. Admits they lost war, by a whole surrender ceremony wherein the Confederacy’s top general handed over his sword and said — out loud, in public, and again in writing — “We lost. You won.”

By the 19th Century Rules of Warfare, a country that wins a war (especially one they didn’t start) gets to impose terms on the country that lost. Including annexing that country and telling them “you’re now part of the United States, subject to our Constitution, which oh BTW now includes the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Get used to it.”

226 Joanne  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:17:29am

re: #162 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

It’s a good point, in its way. A lot of those auto accidents are preventable— drunk driving, for example. That doesn’t mean we can’t take gun deaths seriously too, just by acknolwedging that they’re proportionally smaller.

Drunk driving is illegal. So is suicide.

Other vehiculur accidents are labeled accidents instead of on-purposes.

Gun deaths are more often murders. While drunk driving deaths could be called murders, how many people lose licenses due to DWI’s? Are there laws and regulations in place to ensure that people who shouldn’t be driving don’t do so (insurance mandates, driver’s licenses, etc.?)

At a bare minimum, background checks for weapons should be across the board for gun shows and gifts. This bullshit that you should be able to give a weapon to anyone you so choose is just that, bullshit. You can gift a car to someone who shouldn’t be driving, but either you remain responsible for what happens (the title remains in your name) or the person cannot get plates for it, so unless they break other laws like stealing a license plate, I don’t see how this relates at all.

227 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:18:13am

re: #224 Decatur Deb

According to a reliable lizard in yesterdays thread, they are not the only one.

I also saw a comment here that somebody had to load, cock and lock the weapon and then leave it lying around—that it is not physically possible for a 5-year-old to perform that by himself.

228 Joanne  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:18:15am

re: #166 Mattand

Holy cow is that a big puppy!!

229 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:19:44am

re: #225 sagehen

Even granting they had a right to secede, here’s a condensed version of timeline:
…snip

3. Confederacy loses war. Admits they lost war, by a whole surrender ceremony wherein the Confederacy’s top general handed over his sword and said — out loud, in public, and again in writing — “We lost. You won.”

By the 19th Rules of Warfare, a country that wins a war (especially one they didn’t start) gets to impose terms on the country that lost. Including annexing that country and telling them “you’re now part of the United States, subject to our Constitution, which oh BTW now includes the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Get used to it.”

There is an internet presence of at least one group that seriously maintains that the surrender of the field armies did not contsitute surrender and dissolution of the Confederacy.

(They might be a scam at base, selling loot in their store, but their members take them seriously. Will look for my bookmark.)

230 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:21:08am

re: #227 Vicious Babushka

I also saw a comment here that somebody had to load, cock and lock the weapon and then leave it lying around—that it is not physically possible for a 5-year-old to perform that by himself.

Same comment, i’m pretty sure—wlewisiii, though I don’t have his temporary nic in mind.

231 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:21:14am

S&P hits all time highre: #224 Decatur Deb

According to a reliable lizard in yesterdays thread, they are not the only one.

The youtube video ad for crickett rifles

Noted by Chris Hayes…at around the 0:22 mark the Mom is actually pointing the gun at kids head

Youtube Video
232 DisturbedEma  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:21:37am

re: #224 Decatur Deb

Wow had no idea- I now understand why so many NRA parents can be so heartless about the Sandy Hook kids- they may believe that if the 6 and 7 year olds were packing, they would have taken out the killer…that may be a stretch but I’m still pissed about the “your kids aren’t really dead it was a staged event” crap I see in the comments sections of stories

233 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:23:15am

OK, on children shooting. I shot my first rifle when I was 7 or 8 - can’t recall exactly, but I remember the event. I never got my own while I was young for several reasons, well, nothing more than a Daisy BB rifle, but a large number of my cousins did. What I got - from my cousins - was a lot of The Rules.

One major rule: Nobody touched a rifle without a parent allowing it. Because kids are kids we’d actually touch them anyway, but because parents know kids are kids (well, our parents did) the guns were all locked into the rack.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s, the NRA was all about marksmanship and safety. The Cincinatti Revolution was in 1977, and by the mid-1980s the marksmanship and safety were secondary - first and foremost was Gun Ownership. Back in the 1960s and 1970s parents may have ‘given’ their children guns, but those guns stayed locked up and were never, ever, toys.

Today, we’ve got a 5 year old shooting a 2 year old because the parent was letting him play with his rifle as a toy.

234 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:23:37am

re: #231 blueraven

S&P hits all time high

The youtube video ad for crickett rifles

Noted by Chris Hayes…at around the 0:22 mark the Mom is actually pointing the gun at kids head

[Embedded content]

“girls, and even mom…” heh.

235 DisturbedEma  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:23:41am

re: #232 DisturbedEma

Wow had no idea- I now understand why so many NRA parents can be so heartless about the Sandy Hook kids- they may believe that if the 6 and 7 year olds were packing, they would have taken out the killer…that may be a stretch but I’m still pissed about the “your kids aren’t really dead it was a staged event” crap I see in the comments sections of stories

Ok that may be the worst gerneralization I have ever made…I must be really pissed…yup I am

236 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:24:43am

re: #199 Decatur Deb

That might be a female perspective. My pacifist wife snorts at the idea of ‘The Law of War’, insisting that if she really needs to go to war there is absolutely no limit on conduct.

maybe. I know that I really don’t understand how men conduct war. I think if we raised children that way, we’d have a bigger mess on our hands than we do now. I don’t do negotiation or fairness. Bad behavior will stop, no options.

237 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:25:43am

re: #203 Targetpractice

That’s one I’ve often heard, usually in conjunction with “The North didn’t want n(clang!)s to be free anyhow!,” citing the worry amongst whites in the North that freemen would compete with them for factory jobs and be able to undercut them in terms of wages. About how Lincoln didn’t believe the war to be one over slavery, but simply adopted such with the Emancipation Proclamation to make the North’s aggression morally “justified.” And how the North had pushed the South into war by refusing to abide by the Fugitive Slave Laws.

the war was about economics —and property rights. We just had a different idea of what was property.

238 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:26:49am

Dow breaks 15,000 for first time ever.

239 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:27:36am

re: #236 FemNaziBitch

maybe. I know that I really don’t understand how men conduct war. I think if we raised children that way, we’d have a bigger mess on our hands than we do now. I don’t do negotiation or fairness. Bad behavior will stop, no options.

She is a pacifist, a tanker’s kid raised on Armor bases in the 50s. Her argument is that rules make war a gentleman’s game where the agony falls on the non-combatants—thus more likely.

240 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:27:37am

graphic found on FB:

contraception vs guns

241 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:30:04am

re: #233 kirkspencer

OK, on children shooting. I shot my first rifle when I was 7 or 8 - can’t recall exactly, but I remember the event. I never got my own while I was young for several reasons, well, nothing more than a Daisy BB rifle, but a large number of my cousins did. What I got - from my cousins - was a lot of The Rules.

One major rule: Nobody touched a rifle without a parent allowing it. Because kids are kids we’d actually touch them anyway, but because parents know kids are kids (well, our parents did) the guns were all locked into the rack.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s, the NRA was all about marksmanship and safety. The Cincinatti Revolution was in 1977, and by the mid-1980s the marksmanship and safety were secondary - first and foremost was Gun Ownership. Back in the 1960s and 1970s parents may have ‘given’ their children guns, but those guns stayed locked up and were never, ever, toys.

Today, we’ve got a 5 year old shooting a 2 year old because the parent was letting him play with his rifle as a toy.

Yeah, those “house rules” we had growing up are not the norm anymore. What seems obvious to us about gun use is not part of the everyday education with firearm owners anymore.

242 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:31:06am

re: #232 DisturbedEma

Wow had no idea- I now understand why so many NRA parents can be so heartless about the Sandy Hook kids- they may believe that if the 6 and 7 year olds were packing, they would have taken out the killer…that may be a stretch but I’m still pissed about the “your kids aren’t really dead it was a staged event” crap I see in the comments sections of stories

It’s a riff on “NO AIRPLANE HIT THE PENTAGON.” Explain that to relatives of passengers on Flight 77.

243 bratwurst  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:32:55am

re: #238 blueraven

Dow breaks 15,000 for first time ever.

Imagine if we had a PRO-BUSINESS president! We would be celebrating 20,000 today. /

244 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:33:53am

re: #243 bratwurst

Clearly the job-creators, with all that extra money they’ve gained over the past twenty years, are right on the brink of creating more jobs. They just need another tax cut, and they’ll start doing it. No, really.

245 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:34:06am

re: #239 Decatur Deb

She is a pacifist, a tanker’s kid raised on Armor bases in the 50s. Her argument is that rules make war a gentleman’s game where the agony falls on the non-combatants—thus more likely.

So her take was to remove all the rules and thus make war *so* terrible that no one would fight anymore?

If so, there have been a number of others who thought this or that invention; e.g. the machine gun, would have a similar effect.

246 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:35:25am

re: #243 bratwurst

Imagine if we had a PRO-BUSINESS president? We would be celebrating 20,000 today. /

247 DisturbedEma  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:35:36am

re: #241 FemNaziBitch

My son was 12 and in Scouts when he started…I guess I spaced on the idea that younger kids would shoot as well, if their parents let them

248 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:35:53am

re: #238 blueraven

Dow breaks 15,000 for first time ever.

Damned Kenyan Muslim Socialist!!

///

249 DisturbedEma  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:36:26am

re: #242 Vicious Babushka

I’ve heard that one before as well, makes me nuts!

250 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:36:53am

re: #242 Vicious Babushka

It’s a riff on “NO AIRPLANE HIT THE PENTAGON.” Explain that to relatives of passengers on Flight 77.

Our remote Army HQ office was on a conference call with a DoD liaison across the highway in Crystal City. We got it in real time from people we knew. LTG Maude was ‘on our molecule’.

Fuck the terrorists and their conspiracy-shilling collaborators.

251 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:37:08am
money.cnn.com

Gawdamn SoshulistCommunistic Marxism.

252 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:37:51am

re: #245 Feline Fearless Leader

So her take was to remove all the rules and thus make war *so* terrible that no one would fight anymore?

If so, there have been a number of others who thought this or that invention; e.g. the machine gun, would have a similar effect.

Not workable on the grand scale, I admit. Perhaps she was just sending me a message.

253 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:38:00am

re: #246 Vicious Babushka

FALSE FLAG!!

254 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:40:35am
255 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:43:01am

re: #236 FemNaziBitch

maybe. I know that I really don’t understand how men conduct war. I think if we raised children that way, we’d have a bigger mess on our hands than we do now. I don’t do negotiation or fairness. Bad behavior will stop, no options.

I think you can have that apply (and work) on a small-scale family level.

How does it work on a town or larger scale, and especially if it starts facing non-violent resistance?

256 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:44:04am

re: #254 Vicious Babushka

DOW was 36000 when Bush left office!!111!!!!! Confirmed. FACT.

257 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:44:14am

re: #247 DisturbedEma

My son was 12 and in Scouts when he started…I guess I spaced on the idea that younger kids would shoot as well, if their parents let them

My Dear Ole’ Dad grew-up in Eastern, KY in the early 1900’s. He grew-up shooting for his food. My grandfather was an absentee dad, so I’m not sure how much supervision my Dear Ole’ Dad actually had.

He took me to the shooting range when I was strong enough to actually hold and site the firearm. I hated it, so, no worries about me misusing firearms.

Our kid was in Junior High when he began the the NRA/Olympic shooting traning program and ended-up on his high school shooting team.

I remember my best friends’s dad cleaning his sidearm at their kitchen table as early as age 6. I helped my dad load cartridges every year for his annual hunting trip for as long as I can remember.

I think the big difference is that most men are not veterans anymore. They are not trained in the property use of firearms, and therefore don’t pass it on to their children. Also, few American’s have to actually hunt for their daily food—the practical reasons for shooting are few.

It’s a gentlemen’s sport or it’s part of one’s profession (law enforcement).

Kids only know what they see on TV.

258 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:44:33am

re: #252 Decatur Deb

Not workable on the grand scale, I admit. Perhaps she was just sending me a message.

Well, it also starts getting into the philosophical and economic underpinnings of warfare. Not to mention societal effects since you generally create soldiers and then have to re-integrate them back into your society. So there are pressures not to break them too badly in the process.

259 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:46:59am

DOW cracks 15K, cue sniffs of “The stock market doesn’t matter” and “What does it do for me?!,” while armchair economists predict yet again that the surging stock market is just proof that a new bubble has started and it’ll pop any day now…any day now…

260 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:47:22am

re: #257 FemNaziBitch

That would imply that working some sort of firearms safety training into our education standards would not necessarily be a bad thing. Especially given that elimination of them from society is pretty unlikely given the political climate.

We are not eliminating drugs, or sex, and we have adjusted by trying to educate about them, so I guess adding guns to the equation is not that much further of a stretch.

261 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:47:38am

re: #255 Feline Fearless Leader

I think you can have that apply (and work) on a small-scale family level.

How does it work on a town or larger scale, and especially if it starts facing non-violent resistance?

Well, first I wouldn’t see non-violent resistance as bad behavior. Using words is exactly what, I as a Mom am aiming for.

On the large scale? Well, I don’t think Matriarchy has even been tried on the large scale. I suspect, if it were, we’d see less reason for conflict. Society’s focus would be concentrated on RAISING OUR CHILDREN to get along and use words.

I’d rather see some sort of morph of patriarchy and matriarchy, but I don’t have a lot of hope for any such sanity.

262 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:49:20am

re: #259 Targetpractice

DOW cracks 15K, cue sniffs of “The stock market doesn’t matter” and “What does it do for me?!,” while armchair economists predict yet again that the surging stock market is just proof that a new bubble has started and it’ll pop any day now…any day now…

I wonder how many armchair economists know about the Currency Speculation Market.

:0

263 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:50:43am

re: #259 Targetpractice

DOW cracks 15K, cue sniffs of “The stock market doesn’t matter” and “What does it do for me?!,” while armchair economists predict yet again that the surging stock market is just proof that a new bubble has started and it’ll pop any day now…any day now…

FED Bubble!! FED just printing paper $$ not GOLD! Value of Dollar plummeting!!!!111!!1!1

264 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:51:21am

re: #260 Feline Fearless Leader

That would imply that working some sort of firearms safety training into our education standards would not necessarily be a bad thing. Especially given that elimination of them from society is pretty unlikely given the political climate.

We are not eliminating drugs, or sex, and we have adjusted by trying to educate about them, so I guess adding guns to the equation is not that much further of a stretch.

Love it. A federal Education Dep’t guideline mandating both effective sex ed and weapons training for both sexes—no ‘conscience’ copouts. Freep goes into marathon 10,000 comment rage.

265 Targetpractice  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:52:01am

Alright, gotta get some work done today. BBL

266 wrenchwench  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:53:02am

re: #115 mishael

At unn.edu.ng we were taught terrorism is not something that should be taken lightly.strict measures must be taken for peoples’ life to be secured.

Welcome, Nigerian University representative hatchling.

267 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:53:05am

re: #260 Feline Fearless Leader

That would imply that working some sort of firearms safety training into our education standards would not necessarily be a bad thing. Especially given that elimination of them from society is pretty unlikely given the political climate.

We are not eliminating drugs, or sex, and we have adjusted by trying to educate about them, so I guess adding guns to the equation is not that much further of a stretch.

I’m all for it, but the costs of getting it thru the BS (legislative, judicial, PTA, propaganda etc) are daunting.

Case in point. One good thing the NRA has is their Eddie Eagle program —teaching young children what to do if they see a firearm. It’s totally NOT indoctrination (at least when we used it to education our son it wasn’t). It’s a very good program.

Yet because it comes from the NRA, you don’t see it anywhere. In fact, we teach our kids saftey rules about everything BUT basic gun safety in public schools.

There is a real stigma/fear about it and I find it very sad.

268 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 7:56:27am

Much Needed Humour Break

269 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:01:18am

re: #268 FemNaziBitch

Got another one!

Best.Photobomb.EVER

270 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:01:36am

re: #268 FemNaziBitch

Much Needed Humour Break

Ouch. But amusing.

271 Joanne  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:02:46am

re: #242 Vicious Babushka

It’s a riff on “NO AIRPLANE HIT THE PENTAGON.” Explain that to relatives of passengers on Flight 77.

Donchano that all those people on the planes are now at a FEMA camp?

You don’t think those camps are just for…. Sheesh, you’re so gullilbe!

/

272 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:03:11am

I think lawhawk posted about this yesterday or the day before. You’d think it would be top headlines everywhere, but I get in on BBC news feed.

???

273 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:03:17am

re: #267 FemNaziBitch

I’m all for it, but the costs of getting it thru the BS (legislative, judicial, PTA, propaganda etc) are daunting.

Case in point. One good thing the NRA has is their Eddie Eagle program —teaching young children what to do if they see a firearm. It’s totally NOT indoctrination (at least when we used it to education our son it wasn’t). It’s a very good program.

Yet because it comes from the NRA, you don’t see it anywhere. In fact, we teach our kids saftey rules about everything BUT basic gun safety in public schools.

There is a real stigma/fear about it and I find it very sad.

Yea. There is a difference between teaching fear and teaching respect. The latter is harder to do since you’re not trying to latch onto a base emotion and connect an object (or class of objects) to it.

274 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:05:04am

re: #273 Feline Fearless Leader

Yea. There is a difference between teaching fear and teaching respect. The latter is harder to do since you’re not trying to latch onto a base emotion and connect an object (or class of objects) to it.

I think I need to apologize to everyone. The last class for my Volunteer Advocacy training focused on the children of Domestic Violence Households.

I’ve been a bit disgusted with society ever since.

275 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:06:01am

Freepers are absorbing the improved economic news—it’s the result of the TPGOP sequester.

276 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:06:26am

re: #272 FemNaziBitch

It is on the front page of the NYT today. But I get the NYT every weekday and I’ve had no idea about the progress of rebuilding 1 World Trade Center. You’d think something like this would be kind of a BFD.

277 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:07:44am

re: #275 Decatur Deb

But PBO to blame for all the lazy poors on Welfare/Food Stamps and not looking for werk. //

278 Political Atheist  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:08:20am

Interesting politics-Local-
Bill Clinton and richard Reardon both stumping for wendy gruel in the los Angeles mayoral. I think Mr Garcetti has a problem.

279 Bubblehead II  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:08:20am

re: #272 FemNaziBitch

I think lawhawk posted about this yesterday or the day before. You’d think it would be top headlines everywhere, but I get in on BBC news feed.

???

Fox News had a live feed of the lift. When it went dead, they were having some diffuculties getting it into the temporary stand.

280 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:10:33am

re: #197 FemNaziBitch

In truth, Civil War seems like a contradiction in terms—no?

I understand that part: it was not like the Spanish Civil War or the English Civil War in which two sides were fighting for hegemony over the entire country, it was on part of a contry trying to seceede and another part trying to prevent it.

“War Between the States” is acceptable to me - if you insist.

281 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:12:13am

re: #272 FemNaziBitch

I think lawhawk posted about this yesterday or the day before. You’d think it would be top headlines everywhere, but I get in on BBC news feed.

???

CNN has a bunch of great pictures.

282 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:13:02am

re: #280 Sol Berdinowitz

I understand that part: it was not like the Spanish Civil War or the English Civil War in which two sides were fighting for hegemony over the entire country, it was on part of a contry trying to seceede and another part trying to prevent it.

“War Between the States” is acceptable to me - if you insist.

Me, I like “Slave Owner Rebellion”.

283 efuseakay  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:13:10am

Imagine if al-Awlaki were still alive… OBAMA FAILURRRRE!!!!!!

284 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:14:19am

Prudence, one of the DUMBEST DERPERS ON TWITTER DDOT

285 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:16:06am

re: #282 kirkspencer

Me, I like “Slave Owner Rebellion”.

“WAR TO KEEP OUR N[CLANG]S”

286 sagehen  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:22:14am

re: #276 Bulworth

It was live on the cable news channels.

287 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:23:36am

Hey, is Santa missing?

288 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:24:12am

I can’t tell if the Italian guy I’m playing chess with is mad at me or sincerely happy when he emails me “The game skewed advantageously to your seat and my empire fell. In the ruins I am smiling but there is still steel.”

289 sagehen  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:25:46am

re: #287 NJDhockeyfan

Hey, is Santa missing?

it’s this guy

Image: mary_poppins_xl_01—film-A.jpg

290 Stanghazi  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:32:15am

re: #233 kirkspencer

OK, on children shooting. I shot my first rifle when I was 7 or 8 - can’t recall exactly, but I remember the event. I never got my own while I was young for several reasons, well, nothing more than a Daisy BB rifle, but a large number of my cousins did. What I got - from my cousins - was a lot of The Rules.

One major rule: Nobody touched a rifle without a parent allowing it. Because kids are kids we’d actually touch them anyway, but because parents know kids are kids (well, our parents did) the guns were all locked into the rack.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s, the NRA was all about marksmanship and safety. The Cincinatti Revolution was in 1977, and by the mid-1980s the marksmanship and safety were secondary - first and foremost was Gun Ownership. Back in the 1960s and 1970s parents may have ‘given’ their children guns, but those guns stayed locked up and were never, ever, toys.

Today, we’ve got a 5 year old shooting a 2 year old because the parent was letting him play with his rifle as a toy.

Just looked up the Cincinnati Revolution of 1977. Interesting.

291 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:32:25am

re: #283 efuseakay

President Bush, a real prezdent, killed that guy in 2011!!111!!!!

292 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:33:04am

Heez in da haus

293 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:34:05am

WTF? Does this guy get his talking points from Alex Jones?

Powell’s Former Chief Of Staff: Chemical Weapon Use In Syria “Could Have Been An Israeli False Flag Operation”

Retired Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell during the Bush administration, talks to Current TV’s Cenk Uygur about how President Obama should handle early evidence that Syria may have used chemicals weapons.

“I think the President’s statement was very circumspect, very prudent,” Wilkerson says. “We don’t know what the chain of custody is. This could’ve been an Israeli false flag operation, it could’ve been an opposition in Syria… or it could’ve been an actual use by [Syrian President] Bashar al-Assad, but we certainly don’t know with the evidence we’ve been given. And what I’m hearing from the intelligence community is that that evidence is really flakey.”

294 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:35:06am

Give Sam Walton the Nobel Prize

Why Walmart may have done more for the poor than any business in American history.

295 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:35:22am

Betsy Ross was a false flag operation! I have proof!!!

297 efuseakay  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:37:14am

re: #296 Vicious Babushka

Top Reasons the Walton Family and Walmart are NOT “Job Creators”

Everyone I know that works for them is absolutely miserable.

298 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:37:16am

re: #294 Killgore Trout

What do you think of the article, Killgore, assuming you actually read it and aren’t just throwing that in here as bait?

A trivial response would be that a business that relies on paying employees less than a minimum wage and having the difference between that and what’s necessary to live on made up with the government is a problematic hero.

299 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:38:25am

re: #298 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

A trivial response would be that a business that relies on paying employees less than a minimum wage and having the difference between that and what’s necessary to live on made up with the government is a problematic true capitalist hero.

300 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:38:31am

re: #295 Sol Berdinowitz

Betsy Ross was a false flag operation! I have proof!!!

But I was sitting across the street from her house last Sunday, drinking coffee. There are real flags there!
;)

301 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:39:07am

re: #300 Feline Fearless Leader

But I was sitting across the street from her house last Sunday, drinking coffee. There are real flags there!
;)

Probably not made in America (TM)

303 Mattand  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:44:15am

re: #228 Joanne

Holy cow is that a big puppy!!

The wonders of forced perpsective.

He’s actually an old man at the ripe old age of 8.

304 Mattand  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:45:14am

re: #207 lawhawk

But that’s in context of the North Jersey versus South Jersey battle wages down the Shore. /

Because after Sandy, all New Jerseyeans are New Jerseyans now. Or something.

305 Romantic Heretic  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:47:14am

re: #215 kirkspencer

This, of all the things mentioned, is actually in the South Carolina Declaration that explains their decision to secede.

I’d like to say it all boils down to slavery. But in reality it’s the Tea Party excuse: “We have the right to do what we want and you (the federal government and the other states) have to let us do it even if you do outnumber us.” In this case what they wanted was slaves.

This is why I believe that even if the South had won, the Confederacy was still doomed. Any nation founded on the idea of, “If I don’t wanna, I don’t haveta!” cannot last very long.

The first time, say, Louisiana and Mississippi have a disagreement and the Confederacy decides one way or another or tries to compromise, one or both states will give the Confederacy the finger and take off on their own.

Within twenty years of the end of the war the Confederacy would have resembled Somalia. The North could then walk in and pick up the pieces. Or just let them stew. Running the South in a case like that might be more problem than it’s worth.

306 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:47:37am

I rarely shop at Walmart, but every few months I do go there because I think I’ll be able to get all 5 or 6 of the random items (sunscreen, shampoo, paper goods, a car-care item, etc.) I want in one stop. Once upon a time I could. The last 2 times I’ve been there they have had from 0 to 2 out of the 5 items I wanted. Lots of empty spaces on shelves. I think Walmart’s management may be outsmarting themselves.

307 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:48:52am

re: #294 Killgore Trout

Just so you know, Killgore, I’ve found a pretty serious error in the piece already.

Walmart’s low prices come in part from relying on efficient production in developing countries.

Their low price also comes from having fewer QA runs done on the line of products coming into Wal-Marts. Wal-Mart is very much in a position to be able to tell manufacturers what it will be paying for their products, so one of hte way manufacturers get access to Wal-Mart’s markets and still make a profit is to make a special production line for Wal-Marts that receives lower QA, and subcomponents of lower quality, than goods going to other markets. So while the model # is the same (or has a letter suffix at the end designating the different line), the construction is actually inferior.

A good example of this is the Levis that you find at Wal-Marts, which are completey substandard when compared to Levis elsewhere. They’re also cheaper, but in this case, there’s a reason for that.

The author of the piece appears to be playing false and loose with the idea of ‘spending power’, counting it as though getting a cheaper product is always a good thing and overlooking the difference in quality in products.

308 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:49:38am
Still, the broad regulatory scrutiny — at least eight federal agencies are investigating the bank — presents a threat to JPMorgan at a time when it is raking in record profits.
309 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:50:37am

re: #272 FemNaziBitch

It was headlined yesterday, but there’s a couple of clarifications on the news reporting at say CNN, NBC, etc.

The spire was hoisted from ground level to the roof. It’s not in its final spot. That will come in a few weeks after the work crews raise the tower cranes into position to do the final lift (they’ve got to jack one of the cranes another 150 feet or so to do the final lift (as it stands now, the top tower crane’s boom extends past the final installed section by a scant few feet). I’m figuring that will happen some time around Memorial Day. Right now, the installed spire’s top most section is probably about 90-100 feet short of the ultimate height of 1776 feet. Getting closer, but it was a dramatic lift yesterday nonetheless.

310 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:50:44am

re: #294 Killgore Trout

Give Sam Walton the Nobel Prize

Sure, lets give him the Nobel Prize

Last November, Abedin was sewing clothing for Walmart and other American brands at a factory called Tazreen Fashions, on the outskirts of Dhaka, when she heard a colleague yell, “Fire!” She thought of sprinting toward the stairs when the factory owner said, “He is lying,” and padlocked the doors. As the air of Tazreen Fashions filled with dark smoke, Abedin told me, “I was running around the factory floor, screaming, crying for help.” After the power went out, she followed the dim light of other workers’ cell phones to the factory’s third production floor, where she saw a man removing the bars from a window. She decided to leap.

“I didn’t jump to save my life,” she told me, much as she has told reporters, students, and anyone who would listen over the past several weeks of touring the country. “I jumped to save my body, because if I stayed inside the factory I would burn to ash, and my family wouldn’t be able to identify my body.” When she landed, she broke her foot and arm. She considers herself lucky; a hundred and twelve of her colleagues died in the Tazreen fire. The parallels to New York’s Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, in 1911, where doors were locked and a hundred and forty-six workers died in the space of twenty minutes, are obvious.

newyorker.com

311 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:51:11am

re: #305 Romantic Heretic

I think the Confederacy was suffering from internal divisions and a lack of cohesion almost from the beginning and giving them 20 years to fall apart after the war is a very generous time frame.

312 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:52:22am

re: #307 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Just so you know, Killgore, I’ve found a pretty serious error in the piece already.

Their low price also comes from having fewere QA runs done on the line of products coming into Wal-Marts. Wal-Mart is very much in a position to be able to tell manufacturers what it will be paying for their products, so one of hte way manufacturers get access to Wal-Mart’s markets and still make a profit is to make a special production line for Wal-Marts that receives lower QA, and subcomponents of lower quality, than goods going to other markets. So while the model # is the same (or has a letter suffix at the end designating the different line), the construction is actually inferior.

A good example of this is the Levis that you find at Wal-Marts, which are completey substandard when compared to Levis elsewhere. They’re also cheaper, but in this case, there’s a reason for that.

The author of the piece appears to be playing false and loose with the idea of ‘spending power’, counting it as though getting a cheaper product is always a good thing and overlooking the difference in quality in products.

I’ve known a few salesmen who have called on Walmart. They say they have to cheapen the product to meet Walmart demands. Many walk away from millions of potential business. From what I understand the whole buying process is bizarre.

313 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:52:40am

re: #310 blueraven

Sure, lets give him the Nobel Prize

newyorker.com

Sam set that building on fire? Holy shit!
//

314 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:53:03am

re: #305 Romantic Heretic

This is why I believe that even if the South had won, the Confederacy was still doomed. Any nation founded on the idea of, “If I don’t wanna, I don’t haveta!” cannot last very long.

The first time, say, Louisiana and Mississippi have a disagreement and the Confederacy decides one way or another or tries to compromise, one or both states will give the Confederacy the finger and take off on their own.

Within twenty years of the end of the war the Confederacy would have resembled Somalia. The North could then walk in and pick up the pieces. Or just let them stew. Running the South in a case like that might be more problem than it’s worth.

As long as you ignore the moral question of slavery, there’s a case to make that slavery was doomed economically. To take one example, Virginia was, by 1860, barely break-even in its GDP — and that was solely because of the profits of selling slaves. It appeared likely that by 1870 Virginia would be running at a loss. North and South Carolina were already at that point of running losses.

Of course the case stands on the assumption that these forefathers of the Tea Party would recognize the source of their economic woes and act to eliminate slavery themselves, and not try to legislate action to restore their profitability at the expense of the north. (Do I really need to point out the sarcasm in that statement?)

315 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:54:16am

re: #296 Vicious Babushka

Costco, which has awesome profits and a great reputation has a CEO whose pay is about $3.5m, not 1000s of times more than the pay of the average employee. Workers get paid a decent wage above the existing minimum wage (and many actually like working there).

In fact, Costco has been dropped as a peer group for comparing executive compensation because they pay so much less to their management than others - all while delivering great results.

Pay for performance starts at the bottom (especially where the employee interacts with the customer).

316 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:54:23am

re: #313 NJDhockeyfan

Sam set that building on fire? Holy shit!
//

In a way, Yes. Sam looks for cheap shortcuts. Safety be damned.

317 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:54:55am

re: #310 blueraven

Sure, lets give him the Nobel Prize

newyorker.com

Then she sends the pictures around the world, so that American consumers can see the retailers behind the charred labels: Walmart, Sears, a Sean Combs fashion line, and more.

I sure would like to see a list of every company using that factory.

318 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:55:19am

re: #312 FemNaziBitch

I’ve known a few salesmen who have called on Walmart. They say they have to cheapen the product to meet Walmart demands. Many walk away from millions of potential business. From what I understand the whole buying process is bizarre.

They have enormous power in dictating to other businesses the price they’ll pay for their products. This is their main business model— by having such a larger market, every manufacturer wants to put product through them, and so will accept a smaller profit margin than they will with other retailers. However, this leads to the customer paying for an inferior product often without knowing it’s inferior, or having the ability to really analyze whether buying the shitty $30 levis from Wal-Mart is actually a better expenditure than the $60 real Levis. The real ones may last three times as long, and so be a better purchase, but the average consumer doesn’t have the time or resources to do that sort of research and Wal-Mart knows it.

319 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:56:01am

re: #317 NJDhockeyfan

I sure would like to see a list of every company using that factory.

Im good with that. But Sam Walton deserves no Nobel prize.

320 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:57:28am

re: #310 blueraven

factory owner said, “He is lying,” and padlocked the doors.

The owners of the Triangle factory locked the doors to prevent employees stealing stuff, or at least that was the reason I believe the owners gave for that practice. But it was instrumental in ensuring many workers would die in the fire. Why the hell did the owner in the New Yorker story padlock the doors?

321 Bulworth  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:58:19am

re: #315 lawhawk

Good to know.

322 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:58:37am

re: #314 kirkspencer

Of course the case stands on the assumption that these forefathers of the Tea Party would recognize the source of their economic woes and act to eliminate slavery themselves, and not try to legislate action to restore their profitability at the expense of the north. (Do I really need to point out the sarcasm in that statement?)

The irony here is that economically, they clearly haven’t learned that lesson. One of the main ways slaves were a drag on the economy is that they didn’t buy anything, or almost anything. They had only trivial incomes when they had them at all. Their owner had to spend money on housing, food, minimal medical attention, etc, but their lack of buying power meant that the South had a much smaller internal market than they should have.

The increasing disparity between rich and poor in the US means that the average person has less and less to spend on the domestic market. What people do have they increasingly spend on food, shelter, health care— necessities. This means the US’s domestic market is much less healthy than it should be. This is most problematic for small businesses that depend on local purchases, and most beneficial to large, multinational corporations.

323 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:59:26am

re: #316 blueraven

In a way, Yes. Sam looks for cheap shortcuts. Safety be damned.

Actually, I have to give Sam fair due. Sam died in 1992. As late as 1995 I was being told by people that Wal-Mart was a great place to work. Great benefits and stock options. Sam pushed “buy American”. He pushed for quality at the lowest possible price. Yes, he despised unions, but he said - and followed - that the way to avoid a union was to ensure employees didn’t need it.

The walmart of today is what his children have wrought, who shudder to think of any single penny going to someone else. Profit, pure and simple, is their god and they have broken the company upon that rock. It is possible Walmart will recover, but at this point I figure in ten years we’ll look at it much the way we now see K-mart or Alco.

324 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 8:59:48am

re: #318 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I read somewhere that tests showed that a $5 T shirt from Walmart lasted about half as long as a $10 T shirt from elsewhere, but that rather than it being a nuisance to have to replace the shirt twice as often, the consumer got to be happy about getting a “bargain” twice.
Personally, I don’t enjoy shopping for T shirts that much. My problem as a consumer is figuring out which item is reasonably priced, good quality, and is responsibly sourced. The last item is the hardest, although I’m inclined to believe quality of goods is a general indicator for decent working conditions.

325 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:00:47am

re: #319 blueraven

Im good with that. But Sam Walton desevers no Nobel prize.

These companies should work on using factories in this country. Imagine the amout of jobs that would create. For example most of the items you see on the shelf in any store today has a sticker that says ‘Made In China’ on it. Make all that stuff here.

326 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:00:50am

re: #317 NJDhockeyfan

I sure would like to see a list of every company using that factory.

I didn’t see a link to any of her photos —did I miss it?

327 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:01:36am

re: #325 NJDhockeyfan

These companies should work on using factories in this country. Imagine the amout of jobs that would create. For example most of the items you see on the shelf in any store today has a sticker that says ‘Made In China’ on it. Make all that stuff here.

BUT THEY CAN’T BECAZ UV YOOYUNZ & REGULASHUNZ!!11!!

328 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:02:02am

re: #323 kirkspencer

Sam Walton himself I don’t actually know that much about— it’s also not possible to give someone a Nobel after they’re dead, for that matter.

I have heard that it is his heirs that turned the company nasty but I haven’t actually looked into the story enough to see if it is true or if that’s some mythmaking. May I ask if there’s something you read that’s good on the subject?

329 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:02:16am

re: #326 FemNaziBitch

I didn’t see a link to any of her photos —did I miss it?

I didn’t see that either.

330 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:03:37am

re: #325 NJDhockeyfan

These companies should work on using factories in this country. Imagine the amout of jobs that would create. For example most of the items you see on the shelf in any store today has a sticker that says ‘Made In China’ on it. Make all that stuff here.

Walmart used to have a big “Made in America” thing going (back in the late 80s or early 90s) Customers loved to wave American flags, but bought imported stuff based on price, all the while decrying the loss of jobs in the US. Walmart’s management has followed that strategy to the bitter end.

331 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:06:16am

re: #324 calochortus

I read somewhere that tests showed that a $5 T shirt from Walmart lasted about half as long as a $10 T shirt from elsewhere, but that rather than it being a nuisance to have to replace the shirt twice as often, the consumer got to be happy about getting a “bargain” twice.
Personally, I don’t enjoy shopping for T shirts that much. My problem as a consumer is figuring out which item is reasonably priced, good quality, and is responsibly sourced. The last item is the hardest, although I’m inclined to believe quality of goods is a general indicator for decent working conditions.

I have found that I don’t want or need some clothes to last. Summer clothes especially or fashion items. Walmart clothing is a good choice for fashion items for young people and children’s “good clothing” that you don’t expect them to wear more than once before they grow out of it.

Jeans or household items like sheets and towels that one wants to last forever, Walmart is a bad choice. Kmart is actually very good, in my experience. When my son was young, Sears had a policy that if the item wore out before the child outgrew it, they would replace it. Sears has excellent prices as well.

That’s all great if you live in an urban area. I have family that lives in an area in which Walmart is the only store in town.

332 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:06:20am

re: #325 NJDhockeyfan

These companies should work on using factories in this country. Imagine the amout of jobs that would create. For example most of the items you see on the shelf in any store today has a sticker that says ‘Made In China’ on it. Make all that stuff here.

And who’s going to pay for that stuff?

Americans are used to prices that are only possible when the labor is getting paid pennies per day. If they had to pay for products that were being made on American wage standards, they’d revolt.

333 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:07:05am

re: #325 NJDhockeyfan

These companies should work on using factories in this country. Imagine the amout of jobs that would create. For example most of the items you see on the shelf in any store today has a sticker that says ‘Made In China’ on it. Make all that stuff here.

The companies don’t locate factories here for four reasons, in order of importance:

1. Capital costs. A US company can make far more money through financial instruments than it can through actually producing physical product.

2. Labor regulations. This is one where companies work agains their own self-interest. Even in the face of studies— very old studies— showing better working conditions can improve productivity, companies looking for short-term numbers find it easier to obtain that by outsourcing labor to somewhere where people can be worked to death.

3. Environmental regulations: Here in the US, we have some barriers to companies simply poisoning local water supplies, dumping shit all over the place, etc. China has far fewer, and what there are can be gotten around with the right pull.

4. Labor costs. These, again, are working against self-interest— as countless companies have proved throughout US history, you can give high worker compensation while not losing out by it, since you retain skilled workers better. However, again, this is a cost that, if you’re looking for short-term numbers, is better outsourced to somewhere with lower apparent costs.

What do you think we can do about getting companies to locate factories here? Obviously, one idea— the GOP idea— is to gut labor laws, environmetnal regulations, and destroy the minimum wage.

334 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:07:36am

re: #332 GunstarGreen

And who’s going to pay for that stuff?

Americans are used to prices that are only possible when the labor is getting paid pennies per day. If they had to pay for products that were being made on American wage standards, they’d revolt.

And many American’s can’t afford to pay any more than Walmart prices —with two working parents.

335 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:08:00am

re: #328 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Sam Walton himself I don’t actually know that much about— it’s also not possible to give someone a Nobel after they’re dead, for that matter.

I have heard that it is his heirs that turned the company nasty but I haven’t actually looked into the story enough to see if it is true or if that’s some mythmaking. May I ask if there’s something you read that’s good on the subject?

This article, first published in the April 1 2006 Washington Monthly, is a nice summary. Some of it is anecdotal and second-hand experience from friends and relatives. And I did a bit of reading about 5 years ago when doing some research for a library patron, but do not recall the exact sources I used. However, in part it was 20 years of annual reports from the company - and I recall that there were a few statements that employee overhead was getting out of hand and would be coming under greater control in the later documents.

336 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:08:10am

re: #323 kirkspencer

Actually, I have to give Sam fair due. Sam died in 1992. As late as 1995 I was being told by people that Wal-Mart was a great place to work. Great benefits and stock options. Sam pushed “buy American”. He pushed for quality at the lowest possible price. Yes, he despised unions, but he said - and followed - that the way to avoid a union was to ensure employees didn’t need it.

The walmart of today is what his children have wrought, who shudder to think of any single penny going to someone else. Profit, pure and simple, is their god and they have broken the company upon that rock. It is possible Walmart will recover, but at this point I figure in ten years we’ll look at it much the way we now see K-mart or Alco.

Well I can only judge by what I have seen personally. My husband’s elderly aunt worked for Walmart for 20 years in the 80s and 90s and was treated like shit.

337 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:08:22am

re: #332 GunstarGreen

And who’s going to pay for that stuff?

Americans are used to prices that are only possible when the labor is getting paid pennies per day. If they had to pay for products that were being made on American wage standards, they’d revolt.

This is not actually true. Labor costs are not as signfiicant a part of the price of products as you’ve been led to believe. It varies wildly between products, but see my above post.

338 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:09:49am

Welcome Gladys!

339 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:09:50am

re: #334 FemNaziBitch

And many American’s can’t afford to pay any more than Walmart prices —with two working parents.

Yeah because they WORK AT WALMART!

Gives new meaning to “Owe my soul to the Company Store”

340 Skip Intro  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:12:32am

re: #275 Decatur Deb

Freepers are absorbing the improved economic news—it’s the result of the TPGOP sequester.

They know it’s not true because just look at how long it’s taking the griftathon to break 40% this time. You just can’t fool (or educate) a Freeper.

341 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:12:36am

re: #331 FemNaziBitch

I understand why many people shop at Walmart, and I don’t get all huffy about it-I just have better choices because I do live in an urban area.
Kids do outgrow their clothing fast, and I know that some young women just have to have the latest fashion and won’t wear it for long as styles change ever faster. The latter I do have some issues with since the desire for “fast fashion” drives a lot of the problems of the industry. I’m somewhat divorced from that personally since the kids are grown and I sew most of my own clothing (although not my husband’s.)

342 darthstar  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:12:46am

I know some of you iPhone users really LOVE your iPhone, but this is a little freaky.

Image: 428554_10151647412798322_1582584587_n.jpg

343 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:13:32am

re: #332 GunstarGreen

And who’s going to pay for that stuff?

Americans are used to prices that are only possible when the labor is getting paid pennies per day. If they had to pay for products that were being made on American wage standards, they’d revolt.

More that you think I bet. I notice that items made in America are of a much higher quality that the same thing made overseas. People need to stop bitching about where these companies buy their products and try to find American made items they usually buy or buy the ones on the store shelves and be happy with it. Whining and complaining will get you nowhere.

344 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:13:32am

re: #331 FemNaziBitch

That’s all great if you live in an urban area. I have family that lives in an area in which Walmart is the only store in town.

The original Wal-Mart model was to bring urban shopping opportunities to rural areas. The flip side is that it ofren wiped out what little competition existed in those areas.

345 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:13:36am

re: #337 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

This is not actually true. Labor costs are not as signfiicant a part of the price of products as you’ve been led to believe. It varies wildly between products, but see my above post.

Yeah, and it boils down to the same thing: They don’t make it here because of the cost. They could make the stuff here and charge the current prices easily — just accept a lower profit margin. But they’re not going to do that because that’s not how capitalism works.

346 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:14:41am

re: #337 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

This is not actually true. Labor costs are not as signfiicant a part of the price of products as you’ve been led to believe. It varies wildly between products, but see my above post.

Yes, I learned something about that in one of the books I listened to recently. hmmmmm, searching memory files …

347 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:14:43am

re: #341 calochortus

I understand why many people shop at Walmart, and I don’t get all huffy about it-I just have better choices because I do live in an urban area.
Kids do outgrow their clothing fast, and I know that some young women just have to have the latest fashion and won’t wear it for long as styles change ever faster. The latter I do have some issues with since the desire for “fast fashion” drives a lot of the problems of the industry. I’m somewhat divorced from that personally since the kids are grown and I sew most of my own clothing (although not my husband’s.)

I would rather shop at a thrift store and buy better quality. Walmart clothes do not wash and wear well.

348 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:15:39am

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

More that you think I bet. I notice that items made in America are of a much higher quality that the same thing made overseas. People need to stop bitching about where these companies buy their products and try to find American made items they usually buy or buy the ones on the store shelves and be happy with it. Whining and complaining will get you nowhere.

Who are you saying is whining and complaining, just so we’re clear?

My mother goes to great lengths to try to find American-made products, but frankly that’s sometimes impossible. There are a lot of products that there smiply aren’t any American factories producing, except bespoke. Have you tried this out for yourself?

And American products are definitely not always higher quality than things made overseas, anyway. They often are, but ‘overseas’ includes places like Germany.

349 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:16:28am

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

More that you think I bet. I notice that items made in America are of a much higher quality that the same thing made overseas. People need to stop bitching about where these companies buy their products and try to find American made items they usually buy or buy the ones on the store shelves and be happy with it. Whining and complaining will get you nowhere.

We have trapped a lot of our consumers in a spiral where the only goods they can afford are the cheap imports that only put more Americans out of work. How can we break that spiral without asking employers like Wal-Mart to pay workers more than a sub-poverty wage?

350 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:16:30am

re: #318 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Costco and other retailers will sometimes do that as well. They’ll get name manufacturers to produce products exclusively for them (like say Samsonite luggage). The Costco version may have slightly different stitching or handles or even materials may differ from those sold that are essentially the same in someplace like Kohls or Macys. It makes it tougher to compare prices (something that happens with mattress sales where every retailer that sells mattresses sells their own version of the bedding, but you can’t price match or compare since no one else has that model).

But for those stores, they’re able to negotiate pricing that works for their market segment.

351 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:16:48am

re: #341 calochortus

I understand why many people shop at Walmart, and I don’t get all huffy about it-I just have better choices because I do live in an urban area.
Kids do outgrow their clothing fast, and I know that some young women just have to have the latest fashion and won’t wear it for long as styles change ever faster. The latter I do have some issues with since the desire for “fast fashion” drives a lot of the problems of the industry. I’m somewhat divorced from that personally since the kids are grown and I sew most of my own clothing (although not my husband’s.)

Yeah, and the concept of Consumerism …we need produce disposable stuff —if we constantly need stuff, people will have jobs to produce it —money constantly moving around the marketplace… . ..

352 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:17:16am

re: #342 darthstar

I know some of you iPhone users really LOVE your iPhone, but this is a little freaky.

Image: 428554_10151647412798322_1582584587_n.jpg

stuff we by keeps people around the world working?

353 lawhawk  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:18:57am

re: #348 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I’m redoing our bathroom, and it was a bit of serendipity and coincidence, but all of our materials save one are made in the US. Whether it’s Kohler or the glass tile (which is more expensive than the foreign stuff, but it’s the design the Mrs. likes and she’s getting what she wants), it’s good to know that we’ve made decisions that help support domestic businesses and maintain the know-how.

354 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:19:24am

re: #350 lawhawk

Yeah, it’s one of the ways the marketplace is skewed to reward massive companies and penalize smaller ones. It’s a common misconception that capitalism allows smaller, more agile companies to take advantage of the big, lumbering ones. The sad truth is that there are far, far, far more advantages to being the giantic corporation with huge marketshare than there is the struggling smartup. The US is one of the most hostile places among first-world nations for small businesses, and becoming more and more so.

355 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:19:26am

re: #349 Sol Berdinowitz

We have trapped a lot of our consumers in a spiral where the only goods they can afford are the cheap imports that only put more Americans out of work. How can we break that spiral without asking employers like Wal-Mart to pay workers more than a sub-poverty wage?

I think we have to stop thinking about America as an island and accept that we are part of a global world economy. Workers have to be willing and able to relocate to where the work is or retrain for jobs that are available where they live.

Isolationism no longer works.

356 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:19:49am

re: #347 blueraven

I would rather shop at a thrift store and buy better quality. Walmart clothes do not wash and wear well.

That works. I’m pretty hard to fit, and fortunately I enjoy sewing, so the answer just kind of suggests itself. Of course, that has made me very picky about fit, so it becomes harder and harder to buy off the rack…

357 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:20:38am

The business model for Walmart and other deep discount retailers is to squeeze and squeeze on the bottom tier of suppliers and employees while skimming off as much as possible for the top layer.

This will eventually cause their profits to plunge when even their own employees are unable to buy their stuff.

358 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:21:10am

re: #353 lawhawk

I’m redoing our bathroom, and it was a bit of serendipity and coincidence, but all of our materials save one are made in the US. Whether it’s Kohler or the glass tile (which is more expensive than the foreign stuff, but it’s the design the Mrs. likes and she’s getting what she wants), it’s good to know that we’ve made decisions that help support domestic businesses and maintain the know-how.

made or assembled?

many items say “made in the US” or wherever, but they have parts or parts of parts that came from somewhere else.

359 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:21:27am

re: #355 FemNaziBitch

I think we have to stop thinking about America as an island and accept that we are part of a global world economy. Workers have to be willing and able to relocate to where the work is or retrain for jobs that are available where they live.

Isolationism no longer works.

To a degree: lower wages in other countries should be our incentive to work better and smarter and be more productive.

But when we let other countries undercut us on safety and environmental costs, then we are not only shooting ourselves in the foot, we are not giving those countries any incentive to clean up their acts.

360 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:21:30am

re: #348 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Who are you saying is whining and complaining, just so we’re clear?

I’ve seen it all over the internet for years. I don’t complain to anyone about it because it doesn’t do anything but raise my stress level so fuck it.

My mother goes to great lengths to try to find American-made products, but frankly that’s sometimes impossible. There are a lot of products that there smiply aren’t any American factories producing, except bespoke. Have you tried this out for yourself?

All the time. I know most things are unavoidable but I do my best. I just saw some plastic toys at the local drugstore last week that were made in NY. I loved seeing that.

And American products are definitely not always higher quality than things made overseas, anyway. They often are, but ‘overseas’ includes places like Germany.

I didn’t say all product but most productsusually are. BTW…very seldom do I see anything with a ‘Made in Germany’ stamp on it.

361 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:21:56am

re: #357 Vicious Babushka

The business model for Walmart and other deep discount retailers is to squeeze and squeeze on the bottom tier of suppliers and employees while skimming off as much as possible for the top layer.

This will eventually cause their profits to plunge when even their own employees are unable to buy their stuff.

This would be basic Unregulated Capitalism—yes?

Profits above all else.

362 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:22:09am

re: #355 FemNaziBitch

We also need to avoid romanticizing small town businesses. Some were great, others had poor selection, high prices and rude owners because there was no competition.

363 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:22:39am

re: #349 Sol Berdinowitz

We have trapped a lot of our consumers in a spiral where the only goods they can afford are the cheap imports that only put more Americans out of work. How can we break that spiral without asking employers like Wal-Mart to pay workers more than a sub-poverty wage?

Walmart has nothing to do with where the products are made. They just purchase them at the best price that they can find.

364 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:22:41am

re: #356 calochortus

That works. I’m pretty hard to fit, and fortunately I enjoy sewing, so the answer just kind of suggests itself. Of course, that has made me very picky about fit, so it becomes harder and harder to buy off the rack…

Too bad the art of sewing seems to be a lost one. Not really taught anymore in school, even at a basic level.
My daughter did take an interest and taught herself. Not really great at it, but better than me by a long shot!

365 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:23:02am

re: #349 Sol Berdinowitz

We have trapped a lot of our consumers in a spiral where the only goods they can afford are the cheap imports that only put more Americans out of work. How can we break that spiral without asking employers like Wal-Mart to pay workers more than a sub-poverty wage?

You can’t, and that’s the hilarity of the American system.

It turns out that when everyone (or effectively everone based on employment volume; if the biggest folks are doing it then it doesn’t matter what a 2-employee startup is doing) works out ways to pay their employees peanuts, the only thing the populace has to buy products with are peanuts. This reduces economic movement, which starts the whole ball rolling.

The wealth disparity is literally killing the country. Most of our economic woes can be traced directly back to a single source: The point where the higher-ups started fucking all of the workers so they could pocket more cash that they don’t need. As the 1% continue to hoard more and more of the nation’s wealth at the top, the bottom will have less and less to spend on things, which impacts the ability of the 1% to continue amassing wealth. Then, rather than take the hit that they’ve had coming for a while, they (and we certainly help them to find excuses) just slash everyone on the lower rungs, once again fucking all of the workers to protect their own ability to pocket more cash that they don’t need.

And thus the cycle continues.

366 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:23:40am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Walmart has nothing to do with where the products are made. They just purchase them at the best price that they can find.

No, they dictate to the suppliers the price that they are willing to pay and the suppliers have to shut up and take it or else.

367 Stanghazi  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:23:40am
368 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:23:43am

re: #363 NJDhockeyfan

Walmart has nothing to do with where the products are made. They just purchase them at the best price that they can find.

Walmart has everything to do with how much their employees are paid…

369 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:24:13am

re: #359 Sol Berdinowitz

To a degree: lower wages in other countries should be our incentive to work better and smarter and be more productive.

But when we let other countries undercut us on safety and environmental costs, then we are not only shooting ourselves in the foot, we are not giving those countries any incentive to clean up their acts.

Absolutely.

There was/is some initiative with China (IIRC) to have our government’s regulatory agencies mentor their government about these things. Much of it is the evolution of the industries in these countrys. They are were we were before the dreaded Unionization of the workforce.

What seems like common sense safety to us now, wasnt’ the norm 100 years ago. People had to fight like hell to get it made into law.

370 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:24:53am

Worthy of a bookmark…

American Made Products Directory

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find
American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans. If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form
for consideration of listing here.

371 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:25:27am

re: #368 Sol Berdinowitz

Walmart has everything to do with how much their employees are paid…

Huh?

372 Eventual Carrion  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:25:32am

re: #342 darthstar

I know some of you iPhone users really LOVE your iPhone, but this is a little freaky.

Image: 428554_10151647412798322_1582584587_n.jpg

Charges me up!

373 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:25:44am

re: #351 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, and the concept of Consumerism …we need produce disposable stuff —if we constantly need stuff, people will have jobs to produce it —money constantly moving around the marketplace… . ..

Which leads to one of my pets, 3d printing. It’s not here yet, but it’s approaching the point where you can do a LOT with a machine in the home.

There’s an industry forecast that thinks the price of what are presently enterprise class machines will decline by a magnitude. Add the new filaments/powders in development and the finer resolutions and it’s going to be explosive. The main thing to know is that you’ll still go to a store because the store has larger printers and more materials with which to work, but they’re going to print it at the store instead of bringing in finished goods from South Buchastan. (Hint and example. There’s a company - Modern Meadow - that is working on bioprinting leather. Sheets, rolls, whatever. There are several 3d print designs for shoes. There are 3d scanners that will get the measurements, to include of the body, at accuracies within 0.1mm. Custom fit bespoke shoes beckon.)

And it’s going to devastate the people who do the basic labor right now.

374 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:27:02am

re: #360 NJDhockeyfan

I’ve seen it all over the internet for years. I don’t complain to anyone about it because it doesn’t do anything but raise my stress level so fuck it..

Sorry, what are you complaining about, then?

All the time. I know most things are unavoidable but I do my best. I just saw some plastic toys at the local drugstore last week that were made in NY. I loved seeing that.

If you acknowledge it’s unavoidable for most things, then why on earth are you saying that people just need to find US made? That’s a complete contradiction in what you’re saying.

I didn’t say all product but most productsusually are. BTW…very seldom do I see anything with a ‘Made in Germany’ stamp on it.

Well, we import about eight billion dollars of goods from Germany per month. We import about four to five times more stuff from China. A lot of this stuff is in technical, rather than retail areas, but if you look a bit harder you’ll find some made in Germany tages.

375 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:27:27am

re: #367 Stanley Sea

Actually have fun with life, infuriate a conservative ;).

376 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:30:04am

I had to stop watching, but you may be able to stomach it.

Youtube Video

Also in the Pages.

377 Stanghazi  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:30:11am

re: #375 HappyWarrior

Actually have fun with life, infuriate a conservative ;).

Better: Have Sex, infuriate a conservative.

378 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:30:53am

re: #377 Stanley Sea

Better: Have Gay Sex, infuriate a conservative.

ftfy.

379 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:30:59am

re: #377 Stanley Sea

Better: Have Sex, infuriate a conservative.

Have sex with definite intentions NOT to procreate.

380 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:32:04am

re: #377 Stanley Sea

Better: Have Sex, infuriate a conservative.

Ha, winner.

381 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:32:19am

re: #378 Vicious Babushka

ftfy.

But I don’t wanna.

382 GunstarGreen  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:32:34am

re: #367 Stanley Sea

Wear a T-shirt with a playground-grade ‘nyah nyah’ phrase on it.

Look like an inbred child.

Why is it that Republican ‘humor’ is invariably the sort that only appeals to toddlers and morons?

383 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:32:40am

re: #379 FemNaziBitch

Have sex with definite intentions NOT to procreate.

and not feel guilty about doing so.

384 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:33:37am

re: #373 kirkspencer

Which leads to one of my pets, 3d printing. It’s not here yet, but it’s approaching the point where you can do a LOT with a machine in the home.

There’s an industry forecast that thinks the price of what are presently enterprise class machines will decline by a magnitude. Add the new filaments/powders in development and the finer resolutions and it’s going to be explosive. The main thing to know is that you’ll still go to a store because the store has larger printers and more materials with which to work, but they’re going to print it at the store instead of bringing in finished goods from South Buchastan. (Hint and example. There’s a company - Modern Meadow - that is working on bioprinting leather. Sheets, rolls, whatever. There are several 3d print designs for shoes. There are 3d scanners that will get the measurements, to include of the body, at accuracies within 0.1mm. Custom fit bespoke shoes beckon.)

And it’s going to devastate the people who do the basic labor right now.

Brave New World again. We don’t know how the 3D printing industry will change the marketplace —all we have are our current models of how things work. This one is the Paradigm Shifter if there ever was one.

I’ve read/listend to a few sci-fi short stories and books which incorporate 3D printing as part of the future, it doesn’t seem so scary.

385 Stanghazi  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:33:46am

re: #379 FemNaziBitch

Have sex with definite intentions NOT to procreate.

AND, Charles just tweeted your page about Romney telling female grads to have a quiver full of kids.

AMAZING.

386 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:34:23am

re: #374 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

If you acknowledge it’s unavoidable for most things, then why on earth are you saying that people just need to find US made? That’s a complete contradiction in what you’re saying.

You just have to look a little harder to find American made products. See my post on #70.

Well, we import about eight billion dollars of goods from Germany per month. We import about four to five times more stuff from China. A lot of this stuff is in technical, rather than retail areas, but if you look a bit harder you’ll find some made in Germany tages.

I didn’t say there aren’t items made in Germany. There is stuff made in most other countries. I just rarely see them.

387 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:34:43am

re: #381 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

But I don’t wanna.

LIBRULZ WANT TO FORCE EVERYONE TO HAVE GAY SEX WITH ILLEGAL ALIENZ IN BENGHAZI!!11!!!!

388 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:35:22am

re: #386 NJDhockeyfan

You just have to look a little harder to find American made products. See my post on #70.

I didn’t say there aren’t items made in Germany. There is stuff made in most other countries. I just rarely see them.

I just bought a set of kitchen knives made in Germany.

389 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:36:02am

re: #381 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

But I don’t wanna.

Ok, have sex with yourself.

That will really upset the Whackos.

390 calochortus  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:36:10am

re: #373 kirkspencer

Which leads to one of my pets, 3d printing. It’s not here yet, but it’s approaching the point where you can do a LOT with a machine in the home.

There’s an industry forecast that thinks the price of what are presently enterprise class machines will decline by a magnitude. Add the new filaments/powders in development and the finer resolutions and it’s going to be explosive. The main thing to know is that you’ll still go to a store because the store has larger printers and more materials with which to work, but they’re going to print it at the store instead of bringing in finished goods from South Buchastan. (Hint and example. There’s a company - Modern Meadow - that is working on bioprinting leather. Sheets, rolls, whatever. There are several 3d print designs for shoes. There are 3d scanners that will get the measurements, to include of the body, at accuracies within 0.1mm. Custom fit bespoke shoes beckon.)

And it’s going to devastate the people who do the basic labor right now.

(My bolding)

Buying “responsibly” already is devastating workers in some areas. For example, pulling out of garment factories in Bangladesh will be very hard on families depending on that $37 a month their daughter is bringing home-and may well set back women’s rights (money=value to family=power.) Not buying “conflict minerals” means it’s easier to buy elsewhere rather than documenting where minerals from Congo came from, so honest miners lose their jobs. It is, as so many things are, complicated.

391 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:37:24am

re: #385 Stanley Sea

AND, Charles just tweeted your page about Romney telling female grads to have a quiver full of kids.

AMAZING.

He did? How do you keep up on all this stuff. I’m still trying to remember wingnut html code.

392 blueraven  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:37:28am

re: #377 Stanley Sea

Better: Have Sex, infuriate a conservative.

Better yet wear a shirt in support of 20 gunned down kids and their parents. Annoy the NRA.

393 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:38:02am

re: #385 Stanley Sea

AND, Charles just tweeted your page about Romney telling female grads to have a quiver full of kids.

AMAZING.

I just read her page. Yikes man. I knew Mitt was a dinosaur but man he’s even more messed up than I thought. Nothing wrong with marrying in your 30’s and not having a big family or even no kids at all. Would be nice if people got that.

394 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:38:53am

re: #392 blueraven

Better yet wear a shirt in support of 20 gunned down kids and their parents. Annoy the NRA.

Actually give a shit about prevening future shootings rather than blaming films from 20 years ago, really piss off the NRA.

395 Stanghazi  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:39:51am

re: #391 FemNaziBitch

He did? How do you keep up on all this stuff. I’m still trying to remember wingnut html code.

Today I decided to read from work, on my desktop. Usually my paranoid self follows from my phone.

Caution to the wind mo fo’s it’s FRIDAY.

396 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:40:07am

re: #386 NJDhockeyfan

You just have to look a little harder to find American made products. See my post on #70.

No, you don’t. There are a lot of products that you simply cannot find American-made versions of, with American-made parts. Like, for example, computers. What you’re saying isn’t true, and I don’t get why you keep repeating it. Can you explain?

I didn’t say there aren’t items made in Germany. There is stuff made in most other countries. I just rarely see them.

That’s nice.

397 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:41:02am

re: #393 HappyWarrior

I just read her page. Yikes man. I knew Mitt was a dinosaur but man he’s even more messed up than I thought. Nothing wrong with marrying in your 30’s and not having a big family or even no kids at all. Would be nice if people got that.

Yeah but Mitt also sez

DON’T BE A 47%ER AND EXPECT FOOD STAMPS TO FEED YOUR 13 KIDS!!11!!

398 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:42:16am

re: #397 Vicious Babushka

Yeah but Mitt also sez

Yeah well he can go fuck himself and cry himself to sleep knowing that the American people will never elect him to anything ever again.

399 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:42:58am

Wow Donald is totally PISSED that Jon Stewart called him “Fuckface Von Clownstick”


400 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:44:47am

re: #399 Vicious Babushka

The ‘phony’ part is because Trump is really, really annoyed that Stewart doesn’t have a Jew-sounding name.

401 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:45:37am

re: #388 Vicious Babushka

I just bought a set of kitchen knives made in Germany.

I did that too about 5 years ago. I love my knives.

402 chadu  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:45:59am

re: #250 Decatur Deb

Our remote Army HQ office was on a conference call with a DoD liaison across the highway in Crystal City. We got it in real time from people we knew. LTG Maude was ‘on our molecule’.

Fuck the terrorists and their conspiracy-shilling collaborators.

My ex-wife was working in Crystal City on 9/11, and her building shook when the plane hit the Pentagon.

403 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:46:09am

Is Trump seriously trying to imply that Stewart hides his Jewish heritage?

404 stabby  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:47:39am

re: #188 FemNaziBitch

It’s morning, it’s cold, it’s raing and just so you know:

God is Totally Cool with Lesbians.

Grrrrr
The Muslim clerics are also a lot more cool with Lesbians but they don’t have the excuse of a Sodomy definition. They just say that guys are evil because ewww!

405 stabby  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:52:30am

re: #192 GunstarGreen

“The War of Northern Aggression”, down here in the south, is handy idenfitication shorthand for “I’m a racist sack of shit with no redeeming qualities”.

The new definition of “I’m a racist sack of shit with no redeeming qualities” is “I complain about Obama on twitter!”

406 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:53:38am

re: #396 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

No, you don’t. There are a lot of products that you simply cannot find American-made versions of, with American-made parts. Like, for example, computers. What you’re saying isn’t true, and I don’t get why you keep repeating it. Can you explain?

I have a Grizzly tablesaw that was made in Pennsylvania and I didn’t have to look very hard for it. It was cheaper than the ones at Lowes and far better quality. BTW come of the parts of a computer are made in the USA.

407 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:53:45am

re: #311 calochortus

I think the Confederacy was suffering from internal divisions and a lack of cohesion almost from the beginning and giving them 20 years to fall apart after the war is a very generous time frame.

Just imagine what they would have spent trying to keep their northern border secure from runaway slaves. And who was going to foot the bill for that?

408 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:56:46am

re: #325 NJDhockeyfan

These companies should work on using factories in this country. Imagine the amout of jobs that would create. For example most of the items you see on the shelf in any store today has a sticker that says ‘Made In China’ on it. Make all that stuff here.

But, but, union thugs!
/

409 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:57:01am

re: #386 NJDhockeyfan

You just have to look a little harder to find American made products. See my post on #70.

I didn’t say there aren’t items made in Germany. There is stuff made in most other countries. I just rarely see them.

Because a lot of what Germany exports is industrial machinery, you don’t see the “Made in Germany” on the products they turn out elsewhere.

410 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Fri, May 3, 2013 9:58:35am

re: #406 NJDhockeyfan

I have a Grizzly tablesaw that was made in Pennsylvania and I didn’t have to look very hard for it. It was cheaper than the ones at Lowes and far better quality. BTW come of the parts of a computer are made in the USA.

Talking about individual things you bought that were made in the USA is pointless. There are a lot of things that aren’t made in the US, at all, and those that are aren’t available. Deal with reality and stop whining about people wanting to buy more US-made stuff and claiming they just need to look harder.

411 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:03:06am

re: #364 blueraven

Too bad the art of sewing seems to be a lost one. Not really taught anymore in school, even at a basic level.
My daughter did take an interest and taught herself. Not really great at it, but better than me by a long shot!

We can add that to the educational program right after the gun safety class. Cooking as well. Oh, and none of this gender segregation stuff where the boys gets guns and the girls get home-economics. Everyone gets everything!

412 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:04:08am

re: #410 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Talking about individual things you bought that were made in the USA is pointless. There are a lot of things that aren’t made in the US, at all, and those that are aren’t available.

I believe I said that a few times. Pay attention.

Deal with reality and stop whining about people wanting to buy more US-made stuff and claiming they just need to look harder.

Sorry. I will never stop. Every year around Christmas I post a link to Toys Made in America. If you don’t like seeing that just pass by my posts.

413 Romantic Heretic  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:06:09am

re: #341 calochortus

I understand why many people shop at Walmart, and I don’t get all huffy about it-I just have better choices because I do live in an urban area.

This has been my observation: Walmart is a suburban/rural phenomena. Admittedly my data is personal and limited to Canada, but there are no Walmarts in Toronto save one at the very border of the city.

My observations make me believe that the heart of Walmart’s business plan has been cheap energy. It’s cheaper to ship items from overseas than to make them here. Automobiles mean a Walmart can service a huge area. Now that energy is getting more expensive their model doesn’t work as well.

Plus the fact that their management sucks doesn’t help.

Like you I live in a large urban area so I have a lot more choices about where to shop.

414 sagehen  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:06:18am

re: #373 kirkspencer

Which leads to one of my pets, 3d printing. It’s not here yet, but it’s approaching the point where you can do a LOT with a machine in the home.

There’s an industry forecast that thinks the price of what are presently enterprise class machines will decline by a magnitude. Add the new filaments/powders in development and the finer resolutions and it’s going to be explosive. The main thing to know is that you’ll still go to a store because the store has larger printers and more materials with which to work, but they’re going to print it at the store instead of bringing in finished goods from South Buchastan. (Hint and example. There’s a company - Modern Meadow - that is working on bioprinting leather. Sheets, rolls, whatever. There are several 3d print designs for shoes. There are 3d scanners that will get the measurements, to include of the body, at accuracies within 0.1mm. Custom fit bespoke shoes beckon.)

And it’s going to devastate the people who do the basic labor right now.

The 3D printers aren’t making stuff out of thin air, somebody’s still going to need to manufacturer cartridges of whatever component powders or liquids are used to shape the item… and their workers will have to know some applied chemistry to do it right.

415 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:08:33am

re: #414 sagehen

The 3D printers aren’t making stuff out of thin air, somebody’s still going to need to manufacturer cartridges of whatever component powders or liquids are used to shape the item… and their workers will have to know some applied chemistry to do it right.

someone has to design the schematics for the finished product —market them, package them, email them, whatever … .

416 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:15:44am

re: #384 FemNaziBitch

Brave New World again. We don’t know how the 3D printing industry will change the marketplace —all we have are our current models of how things work. This one is the Paradigm Shifter if there ever was one.

I’ve read/listend to a few sci-fi short stories and books which incorporate 3D printing as part of the future, it doesn’t seem so scary.

That’s more or less what Robby was doing in ‘Forbidden Planet’ (1956).

Image: forbidden+planet+robby.jpg

417 Romantic Heretic  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:21:17am

re: #384 FemNaziBitch

Brave New World again. We don’t know how the 3D printing industry will change the marketplace —all we have are our current models of how things work. This one is the Paradigm Shifter if there ever was one.

I’ve read/listend to a few sci-fi short stories and books which incorporate 3D printing as part of the future, it doesn’t seem so scary.

Try this one. The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady’s Illustrated Primer. The game changing technology in this is nanotechnology, but it’s used in much the same manner as 3D printing.

Especially interesting in this book is the political structure of the world. Nations are gone and replaced by phyles. These are groups that share a common bond. Some are tribes such as Zulus and Boers. Some are cultures such as the Han and the neo-Victorians. Some we would recognize such as the Reformed Distributed Republic. Even groups like Senderos Luminosa have a resence in the world.

Interesting, but I’m not sure I’d like living in it.

418 kirkspencer  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:25:28am

re: #414 sagehen

re: #415 FemNaziBitch

Yes to both. Yet look at your points.

On the bottom, you have to manufacture and ship some base cartridges, not a thousand and one variations. Design of the schematics is actually a more skilled set of labor. (By the way I have argued elsewhere that this is going to become a major small shop industry in parallel. Think authors and artists. Intellectual property laws and enforcement are going to be massive.)

If - and it’s a big if - the bio-printing is successfully accomplished, it’s a very strong possibility that we’ll see leather and silk and linen and cotton bespoke seamless productions. Because of raw material requirements they’ll be done at shops, but what I can’t guess is whether most will be shipped to your home or if you’ll pick them up in store. Regardless, they’ll be fit to the mannequin you created standing in/on a 3d scanner. Stores won’t have massive stocks but will have samples on their mannequins so you can look at thickness and other things.

Excluding clothing (which I think is where things will go most beserk) there are a lot of places 3d printing will have an impact. Still most will be “print at the store”. The reason is simple: most people don’t want to buy a very large machine for printing cloth and another very large machine that prints large metal objects and yet another VLM for … well, you get the idea. But pretty much every house will have one or two smaller machines for the occasional plate or plastic binder or, well, that sort of thing.

Add my expectation of robotic delivery vehicles (Google cars) and a LOT of low end jobs disappear.

419 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:37:16am

re: #417 Romantic Heretic

Try this one. The Diamond Age: Or, a Young Lady’s Illustrated Primer. The game changing technology in this is nanotechnology, but it’s used in much the same manner as 3D printing.

Especially interesting in this book is the political structure of the world. Nations are gone and replaced by phyles. These are groups that share a common bond. Some are tribes such as Zulus and Boers. Some are cultures such as the Han and the neo-Victorians. Some we would recognize such as the Reformed Distributed Republic. Even groups like Senderos Luminosa have a resence in the world.

Interesting, but I’m not sure I’d like living in it.

That one’s been in my “wish list” (I use it as my future read list) on audible. Just moved it up in the cue.

thanks for the recommendation!

420 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 3, 2013 10:39:51am

re: #418 kirkspencer

re: #415 FemNaziBitch

Yes to both. Yet look at your points.

On the bottom, you have to manufacture and ship some base cartridges, not a thousand and one variations. Design of the schematics is actually a more skilled set of labor. (By the way I have argued elsewhere that this is going to become a major small shop industry in parallel. Think authors and artists. Intellectual property laws and enforcement are going to be massive.)

If - and it’s a big if - the bio-printing is successfully accomplished, it’s a very strong possibility that we’ll see leather and silk and linen and cotton bespoke seamless productions. Because of raw material requirements they’ll be done at shops, but what I can’t guess is whether most will be shipped to your home or if you’ll pick them up in store. Regardless, they’ll be fit to the mannequin you created standing in/on a 3d scanner. Stores won’t have massive stocks but will have samples on their mannequins so you can look at thickness and other things.

Excluding clothing (which I think is where things will go most beserk) there are a lot of places 3d printing will have an impact. Still most will be “print at the store”. The reason is simple: most people don’t want to buy a very large machine for printing cloth and another very large machine that prints large metal objects and yet another VLM for … well, you get the idea. But pretty much every house will have one or two smaller machines for the occasional plate or plastic binder or, well, that sort of thing.

Add my expectation of robotic delivery vehicles (Google cars) and a LOT of low end jobs disappear.

I think we are on the same page here —as far as working towards a sustainable future.

Can I say it again?

Comprehensive Science Education and No-Cost Contraception


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