Former Guatemalan Dictator Rios Montt Found Guilty of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity

Rios Montt’s 17-month rule was the bloodiest phase of Guatemala’s 36-year internal armed conflict.

wrenchwench

WorldMay 2013 • Views: 34,385

Photo from havanatimes.org.

Former Guatemalan dictator José Efraín Rios Montt was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity today at his trial in Guatemala City. He was immediately sentenced to 50 years imprisonment on the genocide charge, with an additional 30 years on the charge of crimes against humanity.

“The damage incurred is irreperable,” said Judge Jazmin Barrios, reading the court’s verdict to a packed courtroom. “As de facto president, it is logical that he had full knowledge of what was happening and he did nothing to stop it.”

The 86-year-old former General and head of state was charged with the crimes over a counterinsurgency campaign in 1982-1983 that resulted in the deaths of 1,771 Maya Ixil.

[…]

More: Rios Montt Found Guilty of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity - Boing Boing There are links to earlier coverage and good background information at this link too.

Xeni Jardin provided excellent Twitter coverage of the trial, and took fantastic photographs. Here’s a link to her Instagram page so you can see for yourself. A sample:

Above, Maria Sajiq (L) and Ana Laynez Herrera of Nebaj, Quiché, Guatemala (R). Photo: Xeni Jardin

The New York Times article about the verdict is here. It dovetails well with the article linked above. This excerpt is from the end:

[…]

The involvement of the United States in Guatemala’s politics received scant attention during the trial.

The American military had a close relationship with the Guatemalan military well into the 1970s before President Jimmy Carter’s administration cut off aid. When General Ríos Montt seized power in March 1982, President Ronald Reagan’s administration cultivated him as a reliable Central American ally in its battle against Nicaragua’s Sandinista government and Salvadoran guerrillas.

Those interests influenced the way American officials treated evidence of the massacres. They were quick to accept military explanations that guerrillas had carried out the killings, said Kate Doyle, a Guatemala expert at the National Security Archive, a Washington research group that works to obtain declassified government documents.

By the end of 1982, however, the State Department had gathered evidence that the army was behind the massacres.

But even then, the administration insisted that General Ríos Montt was working to reduce the violence. After a regional meeting, President Reagan described him as “a man of great personal integrity and commitment.”

As Xeni Jardin points out in her last two paragraphs, this isn’t over yet.

Jump to bottom

129 comments

PeterWolf Sat, May 11, 2013 7:05:02pm

One of the most eye opening times of my life was when I lived in Central America. Most days I still think the average American does not know, or understand, the reality of what the US involvement in the region has been. And just how much death and suffering it has caused and supported.

Dark_Falcon Sat, May 11, 2013 8:34:28pm

#BenghaziInFourWords Planning FAIL, nothing more
— Kurt Akemann (@Dark_Falcon7) May 12, 2013

bratwurst Sat, May 11, 2013 8:38:20pm

Wait, is this the SAME Rios Montt who was praised and armed by Ronald Reagan? Is this the two of them sitting together?

Image: reagan-and-rios-montt.jpg

re: #1 PeterWolf

I think there are two kinds of people: those who think Reagan was great for Central America, and those who have actually BEEN to Central America.

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, May 11, 2013 8:39:59pm

The only pity is that the rest of the murderous thugs supported by Reagan aren’t in prison cells as well. Reagan did so much damage to the US and democracy in central & south america and it’s all nearly forgotten now in the glow of “St. Ronnie”. Too many of his buddies, Pinochet for example, have escaped justice. At least Montt did not.

Stanghazi Sat, May 11, 2013 8:43:52pm

re: #1 PeterWolf

One of the most eye opening times of my life was when I lived in Central America. Most days I still think the average American does not know, or understand, the reality of what the US involvement in the region has been. And just how much death and suffering it has caused and supported.

We don’t. We definitely don’t.

Dark_Falcon Sat, May 11, 2013 8:44:42pm

I’m gonna stay out of this one. This is one time I think I’m better off not engaging.

EiMitch Sat, May 11, 2013 8:46:52pm

The Reaganator is outlived by the task of tallying his body-count.

Gipper’s administration had so many staffers tried and convicted of crimes that it made Nixon’s administration look like girl scouts.

And this is who today’s republicans idolize.

But today’s republicans are against teh gheys getting married. And they oppose all forms of contraceptives and abortion while sometimes pretending to oppose teen-pregnancy. And they want to ban that alien Sharia law. So that makes them moral, right?

jaunte Sat, May 11, 2013 9:10:15pm

“It was the first time a former head of state had been found guilty of genocide in his or her own country.”
reuters.com

subterraneanhomesickalien Sat, May 11, 2013 9:15:42pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Then you agree with the Reagan administrations complicity in the genocidal actions taken by the then regime in control of the governmental affairs of the nation of Guatemala.

Its that simple.

I’m sure you’ll justify it in any rebuttal to my post, with what ever morally repugnant language you choose to use because CAPITALISM IS ALWAYS MORALLY JUST COMPARED TO ANY EVEN SLIGHTLY SOCIALISTIC ALTERNATIVE!!!!!!!

jaunte Sat, May 11, 2013 9:18:42pm

It’s probably hard for most citizens of the U.S. to imagine a civil war lasting 36 years.

PeterWolf Sat, May 11, 2013 9:21:33pm

While I personally think the Reagan administration was pretty bad, they weren’t the beginning. US involvement as such goes way back in history. A short read about William Walker or the Banana Wars provides a little context.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

I think Nicaragua was where the Reagan administration really defined themselves. But that also had roots in history, largely centered around a man named Augusto Nicolás Calderón Sandino.
en.wikipedia.org

And, this all came after the Spanish had run rampant through Central and South America.

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, May 11, 2013 9:22:41pm

re: #10 jaunte

It’s probably hard for most citizens of the U.S. to imagine a civil war lasting 36 years.

Most Americans, but especially Teabaggers & other kinds of Republicans, find it hard to imagine what real oppression is like. They’re too busy pretending they’re oppressed by our center-right President.

subterraneanhomesickalien Sat, May 11, 2013 9:24:46pm

re: #10 jaunte

Well since the United States has been in a state of civil cold war for the better part of 150 years I can imagine many revanchist confederate types understanding such a concept.

Mattand Sat, May 11, 2013 9:35:38pm

re: #13 subterraneanhomesickalien

Well since the United States has been in a state of civil cold war for the better part of 150 years I can imagine many revanchist confederate types understanding such a concept.

Wow. I never thought about it that way before. Definitely explains a lot.

Kragar Sat, May 11, 2013 9:37:55pm

re: #2 Dark_Falcon

4 words? Not this shit again.

subterraneanhomesickalien Sat, May 11, 2013 9:40:44pm

OT:

For my fellow kids of the 90’s here at LGF.

Please go back and listen to Radiohead’s The Bends and realize how they were releasing brilliant material before OK Computer to an equal degree as they were after.

“Black Star” and “Bulletproof(I wish I was)” make we want to weep just as hard as anything they produced from OK Computer onwards.

The Ghost of a Flea Sat, May 11, 2013 9:42:07pm

Funny how Marxism and socialism finds root amongst 3rd-world peoples who are on the bottom rung of mixed feudal-capitalist economies. It’s almost as if having no rights that cannot be taken away if they intervene with the profits of moneyed power coalitions that govern like olden-days aristocrats makes one cynical about the basic premises of the free market.//

But the important thing is to never sympathize with the people at the bottom or hear what they’re saying. As Leopold II of Belgium said “if they don’t like the work conditions, they can just leave and find work elsewhere…after they evade the foreman with hippo hide whips, and if their severed feet, malaria, and the weeping of the children they have to abandon permit.”

prairiefire Sat, May 11, 2013 9:59:45pm

Guatemala was a fascist killing field for a very long time. These brave women have stood as witness against the vilonce. I think they now represent for their lost loved ones.

engineer cat Sat, May 11, 2013 10:09:52pm

de guatemala a guatepeor

engineer cat Sat, May 11, 2013 10:11:07pm

i hear that the iranian presidential race is whipping up concupiscent kurds

The Dude Abides Sat, May 11, 2013 10:20:13pm

We overthrew Guatemala’s democratically elected government in 1954 because they were planning to confiscate millions of acres of land that the earlier dictatorship donated to the United Fruit Corporation in exchange for UFC building a Pacific port for the country. UFC never built the port, so when they got rid of the dictatorship and started feeling confident in their newly democratic institution, they voted to take back the land they gave to UFC because of the reneged deal.

Unfortunately for them, much of Eisenhower’s cabinet and other important appointees either sat on UFC’s board of directors or had positions with the company. So the Dulles brothers got several thousand disaffected Guatemalan military, ex-military, and thugs together and had them invade Guatemala. The Guatemalan army fought them off, keeping them only a few miles inside the country’s border, so the Dulles bros said “screw it” and ordered US planes to bomb the capital and the presidential palace. That was that, the president stepped down (probably could have held on), and from then on, it was brutal dictator after brutal dictator. Rios Montt was the worst one of them all. During his regime, there were anecdotal accounts of military planes flying over soccer matches and dropping severed heads into the stadiums. They razed over 400 villages in the Mayan Highlands in 1982 alone.

BigPapa Sat, May 11, 2013 10:24:18pm

Wow. I knew little of this crap.

Will take some time to get down into this.

SteveMcGazi Sat, May 11, 2013 10:25:05pm

Well, if the Guatemalans had moar guns this shit would never have happened.//

Kragar Sat, May 11, 2013 10:26:58pm

re: #23 SteveMcGazi

Well, if the Guatemalans had moar guns this shit would never have happened.//

If only they had the protective hand of Jesus to shield them.
///

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, May 11, 2013 10:28:02pm

re: #23 SteveMcGazi

Well, if the Guatemalans had moar guns this shit would never have happened.//

But not if they’re ebil commie gunz!!11ty! You gotta take those gunz away!!!11ty! And kill the owners!!!!!!

PeterWolf Sat, May 11, 2013 10:56:08pm

re: #24 Kragar

If only they had the protective hand of Jesus to shield them.
///

Oddly enough, there’s three things you’ll find in pretty much every town in Central America, a shop, a soccer field or plaza, and a church. About 85% Roman Catholic. Maybe they weren’t praying to the right Jesus.

BTW, a rather (in)famous case where the US didn’t look terribly good.
en.wikipedia.org

William Barnett-Lewis Sat, May 11, 2013 11:06:30pm

re: #26 PeterWolf

Oddly enough, there’s three things you’ll find in pretty much every town in Central America, a shop, a soccer field or plaza, and a church. About 85% Roman Catholic. Maybe they weren’t praying to the right Jesus.

Rome was happily in bed with the right wing governments. That said, the proties were even more willing to actively kill, see President Montt who was also a protestant minister.

No, the faith is part and parcel of people on both sides in this mess. Jesus weeps for us all - right, left, rich, poor, etc.

Once upon a long time ago there was an X-Men graphic novel where they had to fight against a TV Evangelist. The title is appropriate in this context:

“God Loves; Man Kills.”

Says it all for me.

Good night, all.

goddamnedfrank Sat, May 11, 2013 11:07:26pm

The new Woodrow Wilson Center report also reveals that Guatemalan authorities seized 46 U.S.-origin ordnance items in recent years, ranging from M-67 hand grenades to M-406 40mm grenades to an M-72 light anti-tank rocket. Except for the M-72 rocket, which the United States sold to Colombia, most of these items were part of U.S. Foreign Military Sales (FMS) to El Salvador in the late 1980s and early 1990s. According to ATF, MS-13 transnational gang members are smuggling these items from El Salvador into Guatemala, for sale to Los Zetas and other Mexican cartels.

BigPapa Sat, May 11, 2013 11:09:18pm

Drawing on his Pentecostal beliefs, Ríos Montt invoked a modern apocalyptic vision comparing the four riders of the Book of Revelation to the four modern evils of hunger, misery, ignorance and subversion, as well as fighting corruption and what he described as the depredations of the rich. He said that the true Christian had the Bible in one hand and a machine gun in the other. On April 10, he launched the National Growth and Security Plan whose stated goals were to end the extermination and teach the populace about nationalism. They wanted to integrate the campesinos and indigenous peoples into the state, declaring that because of their illiteracy and “immaturity” they were particularly vulnerable to the seductions of “international communism.”[citation needed]

I’m wondering where the source for this quote is from.

FemNaziBitch Sat, May 11, 2013 11:19:44pm

How is it this morning?

Single-handed sailor Sat, May 11, 2013 11:41:06pm

Mapping edits by unregistered users to Wikipedia in real time.

I keep clicking on the edits, then wind up reading the article, completely random trivia fills my mind.

goddamnedfrank Sun, May 12, 2013 12:06:42am

It just donned on me what the State Department’s ongoing efforts to quash the distribution of Defense Distributed 3D printing files reminded me of:

ITAR & The United States Munitions List

The year was 1991 when Philip Zimmermann first released his “Pretty Good Privacy” (PGP) encryption software. The source code was distributed to his close friends, and from their onto various newsgroups and BBSs. In making his encryption software publicly available outside the United States Phil had violated the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) by “exporting munitions” within the United States Munitions List (USML). That’s right, munitions… as in weapons and ammunition.

…

So, how do you open source a project protected by ITAR without risking serious jail time? You take a page from Phil Zimmermann’s book and… publish a book (heh, sorry). “PGP Source Code and Internals” Published by The MIT Press, 1995. ISBN 0-262-24039-4. The book was the source code, that was it. While the export of munitions is restricted by ITAR, the export of books is protected under the First Amendment.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, May 12, 2013 12:28:36am

re: #27 William Barnett-Lewis

Rome was happily in bed with the right wing governments. That said, the proties were even more willing to actively kill, see President Montt who was also a protestant minister.

No, the faith is part and parcel of people on both sides in this mess. Jesus weeps for us all - right, left, rich, poor, etc.

Once upon a long time ago there was an X-Men graphic novel where they had to fight against a TV Evangelist. The title is appropriate in this context:

“God Loves; Man Kills.”

Says it all for me.

Good night, all.

Central America was, however, very receptive to “Liberation Theology”, the notion that priests had to work to lift´people out of poverty and oppression before they could worry about their spiritual well-being. needless to say, the Roman Catholic hierarchy was not at all happy with that trend in theology.

prairiefire Sun, May 12, 2013 12:54:48am

re: #30 FemNaziBitch

How is it this morning?

Early. Happy Mother’s Day!

freetoken Sun, May 12, 2013 2:18:28am

Naive me… when I undertook my genealogy task I thought I could piece together my ancestry since the immigration events to the new world… alas, I was I to know that my ancestors loved to keep having children and when the poor wife died from exhaustion they’d just marry again and keep on going…

freetoken Sun, May 12, 2013 2:23:58am

MP3 Audio

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, May 12, 2013 3:36:06am

re: #35 freetoken

Naive me… when I undertook my genealogy task I thought I could piece together my ancestry since the immigration events to the new world… alas, I was I to know that my ancestors loved to keep having children and when the poor wife died from exhaustion they’d just marry again and keep on going…

And families often leave out certain details…I knew for example that my grandma had been divorced and remarried at one point, but the fact that she ran off with a boarder in the house remained a family secret for a long time…

Decatur Deb Sun, May 12, 2013 4:02:29am

The only clean shirts in my closet are my Rios Montt hoodie and my Che t-shirt. What to wear, what to wear??

Inner Partisan Sun, May 12, 2013 4:08:34am

May he die in prison.

wheat-dogghazi Sun, May 12, 2013 4:29:22am

The USA has had a long history of meddling in the affairs of Central and South America, all in the name of our “national security.” Usually, such intervention (putting it politely) benefited only US commercial interests and the national leaders fighting “communism” and “socialism” (while lining their own pockets). Rarely has the USA actually cared about the well-being of the common people there.

Castro has had good reason to mistrust the USA, as have most other countries south of the border. We tend to support the wrong leaders.

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, May 12, 2013 4:31:02am

Not to mention the IMF coming in and demaninding privatization on a massive scale, which also served more the interest of the corporate investors than the people of the region. It is what helped propel Chavez into power in Venezuela.

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 4:42:06am

Too bad he got to live to be an old man. At least he’ll see justice.

Shiplord Kirel Sun, May 12, 2013 4:59:27am

Rios-Montt’s religion is a huge part of the back story here. He was, and is, an ordained pentecostal minister. During his tenure as dictator, he was friendly with both Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Their influence could be a big part of the reason Reagan decided to ignore the multiple reports of massacre and brutality and continue to support Rios-Montt.

Flounder Sun, May 12, 2013 5:16:12am

Happy Mothers Day to all!

Sol Berdinowitz Sun, May 12, 2013 5:16:56am

re: #43 Shiplord Kirel

Rios-Montt’s religion is a huge part of the back story here. He was, and is, an ordained pentecostal minister. During his tenure as dictator, he was friendly with both Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Their influence could be a big part of the reason Reagan decided to ignore the multiple reports of massacre and brutality and continue to support Rios-Montt.

Not True Christians?

Vicious Babushka Sun, May 12, 2013 6:07:23am

HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY EVERYONE!
Everyone who is NOT a mother, still has one.
LOVE U MOM!!!

Now let’s see which of my kids calls today. :)

John_Manyjars Sun, May 12, 2013 6:09:26am

Hey freedom(tm) isn’t free, dammit!

Seriously, good show. Pretty sad that little Guatemala leads the US in prosecutions of war-criminal Presidents. Lord knows we have a few.

Flounder Sun, May 12, 2013 6:27:44am

Mark Sanford is on Fox this morning, good for a laugh if you don’t gag easy.

Decatur Deb Sun, May 12, 2013 6:56:26am

Part of a science series my daughter has been using in her very ‘select’ school.

True Facts About Sloths

Youtube Video

dragonath Sun, May 12, 2013 6:56:43am

This article reminds me of the El Mozote Massacre in El Salvador. How’d that one pan out?

The El Mozote Massacre took place in and around the village of El Mozote, in Morazán department, El Salvador, on December 11, 1981, when the Salvadorean Army killed more than 800 civilians in an anti-guerrilla campaign[1] during the Salvadoran Civil War.

darthstar Sun, May 12, 2013 6:58:32am

Happy Mother’s Day everyone…yes, everyone. If it weren’t for mothers, none of us would be here…it’s just science.

Speaking of science, here’s a formula for success.

Image: 941609_10151585825013360_1693339371_n.jpg

dragonath Sun, May 12, 2013 6:58:45am

Whoa, my comment got cut off?

A Mom Anon Sun, May 12, 2013 7:04:33am

I hope the people of Guatemala can find a path to healing and some sense of security now.

I really wish our foreign policy wasn’t so fucked up. Money and big companies always seem to be the most important thing.

dragonath Sun, May 12, 2013 7:10:27am

re: #50 dragonath
The massacre was first reported in the US by New York Times and Washington Post reporters who had independently reached the scene, and came during a congressional debate over whether to continue military aid to the Salvadoran armed forces. Following a “certification” by the administration of US President Ronald Reagan that no massacre had taken place and that Salvadoran forces were working to respect human rights, the Democratic-controlled Congress agreed to continue aid.[2]

The conservative press-watch organization Accuracy in Media accused the Times and Post of timing their stories to release them just before the congressional debate; five months later, Accuracy in Media devoted an entire edition of its AIM Report to Bonner, in which its editor Reed Irvine declared that “Mr. Bonner had been worth a division to the communists in Central America”… In February, in an editorial titled “The Media’s War”, The Wall Street Journal criticized Bonner’s reporting as “overly credulous” and “out on a limb”… U.S. Ambassador Deane Hinton called Bonner an “advocate journalist”.[18] Bonner was recalled to New York in August and later left the paper.[15][15]

The Truth Commission stated in its final report:

“There is full proof that on December 11, 1981, in the village of El Mozote, units of the Atlacatl Battalion deliberately and systematically killed a group of more than 200 men, women and children, constituting the entire civilian population that they had found there the previous day and had since been holding prisoner … there is [also] sufficient evidence that in the days preceding and following the El Mozote massacre, troops participating in “Operation Rescue” massacred the non-combatant civilian population in La Joya canton, in the villages of La Rancheria, Jocote Amatillo y Los Toriles, and in Cerro Pando canton.”[5]

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, May 12, 2013 7:22:20am

re: #53 A Mom Anon

I hope the people of Guatemala can find a path to healing and some sense of security now.

I really wish our foreign policy wasn’t so fucked up. Money and big companies always seem to be the most important thing.

I never thought anyone would be brought to justice. I also never thought the Berlin wall would come down. (I’m old). Good things do happen (in spite of ourselves).

AND Happy Mother’s Day.

Stephen T. Sun, May 12, 2013 7:24:52am

re: #3 bratwurst

Wait, is this the SAME Rios Montt who was praised and armed by Ronald Reagan? Is this the two of them sitting together?

Image: reagan-and-rios-montt.jpg

I think there are two kinds of people: those who think Reagan was great for Central America, and those who have actually BEEN to Central America.

Unfortunately there is a third category. Those who think Reagan was great for Central America because they have been to Central America. There are some evil people in the world.

Lidane Sun, May 12, 2013 7:39:35am

re: #33 Sol Berdinowitz

Central America was, however, very receptive to “Liberation Theology”, the notion that priests had to work to lift´people out of poverty and oppression before they could worry about their spiritual well-being. needless to say, the Roman Catholic hierarchy was not at all happy with that trend in theology.

They’re still not happy with it. Some parts of liberation theology strongly criticized the institutional Church for being part of the same upper class hierarchy that screwed over the poor and native populations in Central America. The Vatican wasn’t thrilled about that.

darthstar Sun, May 12, 2013 7:43:53am

Good point on the birtherism aspect here. Run, Ted, Run!

Yes, Ted Cruz IS eligible to be President of the United States — encourage him to run and help end the GOPeclectablog.com/2013/05/yes-te…
— Lynn (@wavingcrosser) May 12, 2013

Lidane Sun, May 12, 2013 7:44:27am

re: #48 Flounder

Mark Sanford is on Fox this morning, good for a laugh if you don’t gag easy.

Image: familyvalues.jpg

darthstar Sun, May 12, 2013 7:44:46am

“If any man come to me, and hate not his mother, he cannot be my disciple.”Luke 14:26Happy Mother’s Day from Jesus!
— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) May 12, 2013

That explains why he didn’t mention her, but called out to his absent father when he was up on the cross. Single parent families can be so complex.

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, May 12, 2013 7:51:13am

re: #60 darthstar

That explains why he didn’t mention her, but called out to his absent father when he was up on the cross. Single parent families can be so complex.

This new testament confuses me. What does “hate not his mother” mean?

darthstar Sun, May 12, 2013 7:52:40am

re: #61 Iwouldprefernotto

This new testament confuses me. What does “hate not his mother” mean?

Jesus had issues. There’s a whole book about it.

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 8:09:17am

Took the wife to brunch. Left a 40 dollar tip for the mother who waited on me. Mimosa and sangria. Eggs Benedict and smoked salmon. Yumm.

Iwouldprefernotto Sun, May 12, 2013 8:19:03am

re: #63 Amory Blaine

Took the wife to brunch. Left a 40 dollar tip for the mother who waited on me. Mimosa and sangria. Eggs Benedict and smoked salmon. Yumm.

Extra tips on mothers day. What would Jesus say? Really I’m asking because I don’t understand the above biblical quote.

Also, I’m doing brunch at the ex wives. Kids will be there. Not leaving a tip.

Peace

PhillyPretzel Sun, May 12, 2013 8:19:38am

Happy Mother’s Day to all of the Lizard Moms.

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:22:30am

re: #65 PhillyPretzel

Happy Mother’s Day to all of the Lizard Moms.

I’m not female, but I’ve been called a “Mother” a number of times

Does that count??

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 8:25:40am

re: #66 sattv4u2

I’m not female, but I’ve been called a “Mother” a number of times

Does that count??

Yes sat. It does.

Youtube Video

darthstar Sun, May 12, 2013 8:26:09am

re: #66 sattv4u2

I’m not female, but I’ve been called a “Mother” a number of times

Does that count??

As long as it’s followed by “superior” and not “fucker” Though you could use “superior” before mother, but not after “fucker”

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:28:16am

re: #68 darthstar

As long as it’s followed by “superior” and not “fucker”

I’ve been called both!

(although, I will admit, one more than the other!!!!)

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, May 12, 2013 8:29:11am

re: #61 Iwouldprefernotto

This new testament confuses me. What does “hate not his mother” mean?

This being a Sunday, I’ll pretend you really want to know and answer ;)

This comes from a passage on the cost of becoming a disciple. The author of Luke/Acts uses hyperbola rather like the regularly misinterpreted Proverbs 13:24. But it remains consistent with Luke’s emphasis on severing ones ties to their previous life when becoming a follower of Jesus. The Gospel of Luke dates from 110~120 CE and is after most of the split with the synagogues and the emphasis is on that separation for both Jews who follow Jesus and for Gentiles who give up much of the Roman way of life as well. By this point historically people could get into big trouble for not sacrificing to the divine emperor for example.

Hope this helps.

darthstar Sun, May 12, 2013 8:31:26am

re: #69 sattv4u2

I’ve been called both!

(although, I will admit, one more than the other!!!!)

Well, let me put your mind at ease then and reassure you that you’re not superior.

You’re welcome.

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:31:37am

re: #70 William Barnett-Lewis

people could get into big trouble for not sacrificing to the divine emperor for example.

Image: palpatine.jpg

Yes, master!!

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:32:12am

re: #71 darthstar

Well, let me put your mind at ease then and reassure you that you’re not superior.

You’re welcome.

It’s only because I don’t have a habit!

BigPapa Sun, May 12, 2013 8:46:20am

Everyone must be calling their mom.

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:53:16am

re: #74 BigPapa

Everyone must be calling their mom.

Wish I could, but I don’t know Heavens Area Code!

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 8:53:33am

Last week a lady at work asked me what I got my wife for Mother’s Day, I replied “nothing, we don’t have kids yet” to which she proceeded to display utter shock at the fact we were childless. This person doesn’t know anything about me outside of my name and where I work, why would she judge me like that?

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 8:53:49am

re: #75 sattv4u2

Wish I could, but I don’t know Heavens Area Code!

Why it’s 316 silly. :P

Political Atheist Sun, May 12, 2013 8:56:16am

Cooking dinner for extended family today for the MIL visit. My mom passed in 1994. So I write a prayer and a note to her on paper, and in a very old school ritual, set the paper afire to send the note. Satt, heh- “heavens area code.”

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:57:23am

re: #76 Eclectic Cyborg

Last week a lady at work asked me what I got my wife for Mother’s Day, I replied “nothing, we don’t have kids yet” to which she proceeded to display utter shock at the fact we were childless. This person doesn’t know anything about me outside of my name and where I work, why would she judge me like that?

I used to get the same grief at times

We didn’t even meet till i was in my 30’s, then we were together for 4-5 years before we got engaged then married and another 5 till we had our one and only (me, at the ripe age of 40)

And if someone asks me NOW what did I get my wife for Mothers Day, I give them the same answer

NOTHING,,, she’s my WIFE, not my mother

Stanghazi Sun, May 12, 2013 8:57:30am

re: #74 BigPapa

Everyone must be calling their mom.

Yep. Long conversation. My brother who lives by her in Florida is making her filet and lobster. Shes quite happy.

Got to call step mom next, then on to my just another Sunday.

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 8:59:02am

re: #79 sattv4u2

I used to get the same grief at times

We didn’t even meet till i was in my 30’s, then we were together for 4-5 years before we got engaged then married and another 5 till we had our one and only (me, at the ripe age of 40)

And if someone asks me NOW what did I get my wife for Mothers Day, I give them the same answer

NOTHING,,, she’s my WIFE, not my mother

Now,, with that said,, I have spent THOUSANDS on things my SON has given his mother on this day!!

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 9:01:45am

re: #79 sattv4u2

I used to get the same grief at times

We didn’t even meet till i was in my 30’s, then we were together for 4-5 years before we got engaged then married and another 5 till we had our one and only (me, at the ripe age of 40)

And if someone asks me NOW what did I get my wife for Mothers Day, I give them the same answer

NOTHING,,, she’s my WIFE, not my mother

I might have been a bit bothered by it because my wife and I are trying for a child right now but there have been some biological…challenges shall we say. Not to mention we are about the only married couple we know that doesn’t have kids yet (heck most of the others are on to number 2,3 or 4 by now).

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 9:05:21am

I always seemed to raise other mens kids. Finally with my stepson in his mid 20s now. I’m like a perpetual uncle.

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 9:06:17am

re: #82 Eclectic Cyborg

but there have been some biological…challenges shall we say.

Same as us,, hence the almost 5 years from getting married to having our son!!

we are about the only married couple we know that doesn’t have kids yet

Again, back then,, same here

Hell, most of our friends were “empty nesters” by the time we were lugging our kid to school functions and kiddie birthdays

PhillyPretzel Sun, May 12, 2013 9:10:27am

Just posted a page on Apple’s count to the 50 billionth downloaded app. littlegreenfootballs.com

Single-handed sailor Sun, May 12, 2013 9:11:23am

re: #63 Amory Blaine

Took the wife to brunch. Left a 40 dollar tip for the mother who waited on me. Mimosa and sangria. Eggs Benedict and smoked salmon. Yumm.

My daughters and I are making pretty much the same menu at home for my wife.

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 9:13:19am

re: #86 Single-handed sailor

Sounds perfect!! Enjoy these special times.

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 9:35:55am

re: #84 sattv4u2

but there have been some biological…challenges shall we say.

Same as us,, hence the almost 5 years from getting married to having our son!!

we are about the only married couple we know that doesn’t have kids yet

Again, back then,, same here

Hell, most of our friends were “empty nesters” by the time we were lugging our kid to school functions and kiddie birthdays

My parents were married 5 years before I was born…my wife and I will have been married 5 years on the 24th of this month. Funny how that seems to be a certain threshold of sorts.

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 9:36:49am

re: #85 PhillyPretzel

Just posted a page on Apple’s count to the 50 billionth downloaded app. littlegreenfootballs.com

And once that download is completed, the giant robotic Steve Jobs will be revealed!

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 9:36:56am

Mornin’ Lizards…Happy brood mare day! I keed.

Took wife and child to truck stop near here for breakfast (not a lot of choices out here in the empty wastes of Iowa, which is why I have Steve King as a congressman). Taking her to see Iron Man 3 later as she still has a bit of a crush on Robert Downey Jr.

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 9:40:12am

re: #90 PT Barnum

Mornin’ Lizards…Happy brood mare day! I keed.

Took wife and child to truck stop near here for breakfast (not a lot of choices out here in the empty wastes of Iowa, which is why I have Steve King as a congressman). Taking her to see Iron Man 3 later as she still has a bit of a crush on Robert Downey Jr.

On the way to Vegas, my wife and I passed the Jesus Chris is Lord Travel Center on I-40 near Amarillo. I am not joking, it’s a real thing.

They have an official site too.

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 9:41:52am

re: #88 Eclectic Cyborg

My parents were married 5 years before I was born…my wife and I will have been married 5 years on the 24th of this month. Funny how that seems to be a certain threshold of sorts.

I swear it’s not fair. My wife and I got married at 37 and 39 our son was conceived the following June. To be honest, I wasn’t excited about having kids when we got married (I already had two), but it was the best thing I ever did.

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 9:44:30am

re: #92 PT Barnum

I swear it’s not fair. My wife and I got married at 37 and 39 our son was conceived the following June. To be honest, I wasn’t excited about having kids when we got married (I already had two), but it was the best thing I ever did.

We couples like that too. They tell us they are trying, then about six weeks or so later, “We’re pregnant! Yay!”.

Drives me crazy sometimes but overall I see plenty of benefits in having kids a bit later in life. One of my best friends didn’t become a father until 34 and…three of the guys on my team at work didn’t have kids until their 30s (or in one case their 40s).

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 9:44:48am

re: #83 Amory Blaine

I always seemed to raise other mens kids. Finally with my stepson in his mid 20s now. I’m like a perpetual uncle.

You are doing God’s work.

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 9:47:06am

re: #93 Eclectic Cyborg

We know couple like that too. They tell us they are trying, then about six weeks or so later, “We’re pregnant! Yay!”.

Drives me crazy sometimes but overall I see plenty of benefits in having kids a bit later in life. One of my best friends didn’t become a father until 34 and…three of the guys on my team at work didn’t have kids until their 30s (or in one case their 40s).

I can say from experience that being the parent of an infant at 40 is much easier than it was at 29. I’m much calmer and laid back than I was back then.

Although I’m not looking forward to dealing with a teenager in my 50s.

allegro Sun, May 12, 2013 9:47:57am

I woke up this Mother’s Day to snuggles, hugs, and kisses… just like every other day. Being a Dog Mom is Good. :)

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 9:48:56am

re: #91 Eclectic Cyborg

There’s a couple crazy big crosses out there too.

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 9:50:53am

re: #96 allegro

I woke up this Mother’s Day to snuggles, hugs, and kisses… just like every other day. Being a Dog Mom is Good. :)

Best part of having dogs instead of kids is that you can put your dog in a kennel without anybody calling DHS.

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 9:51:40am

re: #95 PT Barnum

I can say from experience that being the parent of an infant at 40 is much easier than it was at 29. I’m much calmer and laid back than I was back then.

Although I’m not looking forward to dealing with a teenager in my 50s.

I was 55 when my son hit the “teens”
{sigh}

100

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 9:53:55am

re: #99 sattv4u2

I was 55 when my son hit the “teens”
{sigh}

He’s a great kid, but a bit overwrought a great deal of the time. I see a lot of myself in him.

101

kerFuFFler Sun, May 12, 2013 9:58:53am

re: #95 PT Barnum

I can say from experience that being the parent of an infant at 40 is much easier than it was at 29.

It might not be the age difference. You are a more experienced parent the second time around so that must make it easier to be a little relaxed about it.

We had our kids young (well, starting at 25, but that was unusual for our set) and have been very happy with our choice. It’s fine to feel happy with having waited longer, but some people (not you….) get preachy about it. To each their own.

102

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 10:00:00am

re: #98 PT Barnum

Best part of having dogs instead of kids is that you can put your dog in a kennel without anybody calling DHS.

HOWEVER,,, I told my wife when my son was an infant,,, when my son needed to pee or poop, i didn’t have to bundle up in a snowsuit and walk him (we were living in Boston at the time)(like now,, we had dogs at the time)

103

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 10:02:36am

re: #97 Amory Blaine

There’s a couple crazy big crosses out there too.

We drove through some place…it might have been Groom, that claimed it was “The Most Christian city in the country”. They had crosses lining all the roads that looked just liked that one, albeit smaller.

104

BigPapa Sun, May 12, 2013 10:03:26am

I turned 44 the other day. I don’t know if we’ll have kids but being an uncle is cool.

My wife would make a great mom. Should would spoil them but love them deeply.

I’m at the point if an accident happened, cool. If not, cool. But there are moments when I see a woman with a big belly, far along, and wonder how my wife would look well along. There is a motherhood dimension of beauty that’s not apparent when you’re a beer swillin booby gogglin twenty something but I’ve come to understand these different nuances of beauty over the last few years.

105

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 10:07:20am

re: #104 BigPapa

my wife never looked more radiant (except perhaps on our wedding day) then when she was 7-8 months pregnant. She was in her (very) late 30’s at the time

106

wrenchwench Sun, May 12, 2013 10:09:08am

Youtube Video

107

Amory Blaine Sun, May 12, 2013 10:14:57am

re: #103 Eclectic Cyborg

He he that picture is labeled from Groom Texas.

108

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, May 12, 2013 10:19:22am

re: #107 Amory Blaine

He he that picture is labeled from Groom Texas.

Right I know Groom has the big cross, but the town I’m thinking of had dozens upon dozens of smaller crosses lining the main street.

109

ProTARDISLiberal Sun, May 12, 2013 10:24:02am

re: #107 Amory Blaine

I drove through Groom so many times to and from OU.

110

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 10:29:26am

re: #105 sattv4u2

The majority of my wife’s pregnancy was spent with us sleeping seperately because she couldn’t get comfortable in the bed once she got to a certain point and had to sleep in the recliner. She was very hormonal, though, so I got woken up several times from a sound sleep with her sitting on the bed, sobbing uncontrollably, one time because she’d had a dream I’d run off with a hooker.

111

Stanghazi Sun, May 12, 2013 10:30:01am

re: #106 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

That one face where the cat had him really pinned down was a classic.

112

BigPapa Sun, May 12, 2013 10:34:56am

One Republican eyeing a White House run, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, told an audience in Iowa that he thinks the Benghazi attack “precludes Hillary Clinton from ever holding office.”

Irrelevant douchebag nutbar sez whut? Oh yeah, he’s the GOP.

113

allegro Sun, May 12, 2013 10:35:51am

re: #108 Eclectic Cyborg

Right I know Groom has the big cross, but the town I’m thinking of had dozens upon dozens of smaller crosses lining the main street.

I would find that immensely creepy. Crosses are the most horrific torture devices devised and wonder who the townfolk are so horny to hang.

114

BigPapa Sun, May 12, 2013 10:37:33am

Clinton’s allies said Republicans were looking to weaken her ahead of a potential 2016 campaign.
“This has been caught up in the 2016 presidential campaign, this effort to go after Hillary Clinton,” said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill. “They want to bring her in because they think it’s a good political show and I think that’s unfortunate.”

115

PT Barnum Sun, May 12, 2013 10:38:47am

re: #114 BigPapa

When you are afraid your own ideas aren’t good enough, then you have to make any alternative unthinkable, because that’s the only way you’ll get back into power.

116

sattv4u2 Sun, May 12, 2013 10:41:54am

re: #110 PT Barnum

The majority of my wife’s pregnancy was spent with us sleeping seperately because she couldn’t get comfortable in the bed once she got to a certain point and had to sleep in the recliner. She was very hormonal, though, so I got woken up several times from a sound sleep with her sitting on the bed, sobbing uncontrollably, one time because she’d had a dream I’d run off with a hooker.

Yeah,,, months 2-4 were, in a word, stressful (she was actually confined to laying down most of the time) as was the final month or so

117

wrenchwench Sun, May 12, 2013 10:42:13am

Photo, @skylightpix: pro-Ríos Montt demo outside prison, by pro-military, anti-terrorist/communist orgs. ~60-90 ppl twitter.com/xeni/status/33…
— Xeni Jardin (@xeni) May 12, 2013

Former Guatemalan Dictator Rios Montt Found Guilty of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity

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