Oklahoma Tornado Updates - 37 Confirmed Dead So Far

One of the worst tornado disasters in US history
US News • Views: 27,465

Here’s another thread to keep up on events in Moore, Oklahoma, with some sad news from the Associated Press:

UPDATE at 5/20/13 6:05:13 pm
UPDATE at 5/20/13 6:23:09 pm

Closeup video of the monster from a storm chaser:

YouTube
UPDATE at 5/20/13 6:38:28 pm

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548 comments
1 SpaceJesus  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:21:13pm
Youtube Video
2 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:23:05pm

Evening Lizardim. My thoughts and prayers are with Oklahoma right now.

3 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:25:47pm

All things considered, it seems the response team is efficient. 5 hours(?) after touchdown they are well on their way to gaining some sense of order.

Again, I am really impressed with KFOR, they seem to take their jobs seriously and know the positive impact they can have as part of the rescue team.

4 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:29:09pm
5 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:30:55pm

RIP Ray Manzarek.

6 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:31:14pm

Looking at the unbelievable damage, that death count is almost certain to go much higher.

7 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:31:17pm

I hope all Lizards are safe tonight, and take it as a chance to review your own emergency planning, whether it’s for tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, or orcs. Check your emergency supplies, review first aid parameters, consider signing up for supporting first responders (I know this kind of program exists in CA, which I will miss the class for again), and consider donating to support the folks in OK - we’re partial to the Red Cross - and monetary support does tend to be more useful to the charities in these instances.

8 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:32:10pm

Not only is the relief effort in Moore getting underway, the SPL is continuing to issue watches and warnings through 1am local time in KS, OK, and into TX. So folks in the affected areas, stay safe - watch the skies and listen to the weather reports. It’s going to stay pretty rough out there.

9 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:34:56pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Done!

10 justaminute  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:35:33pm

My daughter made it home. She said when they came out of the shelters, the neighborhood beside it was all gone. She said her car was black with debris. She was in shock. She said people were just wondering around. A lady with her son came by the office saying that her child was in the school with the missing children. Her home was gone and neither she nor her little child had shoes on. She stayed in the office while her family were on the way.

My daughter took a Yorkie and her puppies that were just sitting in the middle of the road and the neighborhood was completely gone. She said around 30 or 40 dogs were just wondering around.

She said she saw a woman that was being treated that had her leg completely severed off.

She took a lot of pics from the scene and put them on twitter. She said one of the TV stations were picking up some of her pics to show on TV

She said miles up and down from our house are clogged with cars and emergency vehicles all the way to I-35.

Looks like my dad will just have to stay at the hospital tomorrow. My daughter said that you can’t even get to my dad’s assisted living.

On the TV they just stated 37 dead.

11 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:35:59pm

re: #10 justaminute

I’m glad that she and yours are okay!

12 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:36:11pm

Evil fucking scumbag.

13 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:36:40pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Evil fucking scumbag.

To Erick, Son of Erick:

Eat a bag of dicks.

Douchecanoe.

That is all.

14 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:37:38pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Considering that the President has already been on the phone with the Governor of Oklahoma, I’d say that the President knows more about the situation than Erickson does.

And it goes without saying that Obama cares more too.

15 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:37:46pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Evil fucking scumbag.

If your initial response is to turn a disaster of this magnitude into a political football, I think that says an awful lot about you. And it is not a positive thing.

16 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:38:57pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Evil fucking scumbag.

Somebody on Twitter ask Mr Erickson if he now has a wet spot in his underpants.

Bastard.

17 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:39:53pm
18 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:40:07pm

re: #10 justaminute

Please take care!

19 GeneJockey  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:40:30pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

There’s no tragedy so great but that some shitbag somewhere can’t make an ass of himself over it.

20 A Mom Anon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:40:32pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Are there levels of Evil? Because this goes beyond freaking evil. Disgusting.

21 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:40:34pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Evil fucking scumbag.

Can’t even wait for the bodies to cool before beginning the politicization.

22 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:41:10pm

I can’t imagine living in community small enough that the news station is able too put calls out to specific parents whose children are in the hospital. Chicagoland would have to put up a website if possible.

23 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:41:54pm

re: #279 lawhawk

It is safer to shelter in place - in a building that had concrete cinder block, than riding out in a school bus or residential housing that is typically stick-built. What no one could have expected is that this particular tornado turned into the monster it did - a direct hit by at least an EF-4 (if not EF-5).

Just look at all the cars, trucks, and other loose debris tossed about, let alone the homes that were obliterated. The school was still the safer bet.

An awful lot of parents are certainly disagreeing with you right now.

If the building cannot take the hit, you cannot expect people to stay safe within it.

Sorry, but the kids are dead. Period. The school did not protect them.

Intentions do not matter. Results are the only thing that matters when your kids’ life is on the line, and the policy completely failed, no matter what the intention was.

24 GeneJockey  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:42:11pm

re: #20 A Mom Anon

Are there levels of Evil? Because this goes beyond freaking evil. Disgusting.

I’m loth to use the word ‘evil’. Unfeeling, to the level of sociopathy, certainly.

25 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:43:21pm

re: #15 klys

If your initial response is to turn a disaster of this magnitude into a political football, I think that says an awful lot about you. And it is not a positive thing.

Do not look at any message boards at Yahoo news or elsewhere. I hurried away after 15 threads of partisan insults and sneering at ‘libtards’.

26 AntonSirius  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:44:05pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Evil fucking scumbag.

27 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:45:17pm

re: #23 celticdragon

There are very good and distinct reasons for the policy like this to exist. Tornadoes are significantly more likely to kill if you encounter them in a vehicle.

Now, I’d be very happy to have a national conversation about instituting public storm shelters in schools, which would probably have had a more significant impact. But EF-5 is no joke. A lot of those parents don’t have homes either. For an EF-2 or EF-3, this probably would have been the right call.

There really isn’t a right call for an EF-5, except for a below-ground storm shelter. The bullshit is that there wasn’t one in place for so many people.

28 Awea  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:45:54pm

re: #23 celticdragon

re: #279 lawhawk

An awful lot of parents are certainly disagreeing with you right now.

If the building cannot take the hit, you cannot expect people to stay safe within it.

Sorry, but the kids are dead. Period. The school did not protect them.

Intentions do not matter. Results are the only thing that matters when your kids’ life is on the line, and the policy completely failed, no matter what the intention was.

So every school must now be brought up to code to survive an EF-5?

There is no place safe enough for that type of damage.

29 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:46:05pm

re: #23 celticdragon

I’m not sure if it’s really anyone’s “fault”. The lack of school shelters is either failure of administration, education, imagination, or all of the above.

30 Iwouldprefernotto  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:46:32pm

What is #$#$#@ Erickson going to say when Obama visits OK?

31 AntonSirius  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:47:09pm

re: #30 Iwouldprefernotto

What is #$#$#@ Erickson going to say when Obama visits OK?

That he’s politicizing the tragedy, of course.

32 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:47:33pm

I wonder when Erickson found out about Oklahoma…

33 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:48:18pm

I am watching people stumbling around, holding their little pets in their arms. All they have in the world, their little pet.

34 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:48:39pm

I want to acknowledge that storms like this raise interesting challenges, because (from the earlier thread) storm shelters do cost $$.

Safety during a storm like this should not be due to luck or money. Public storm shelters have a real role to play. I believe this is a place where the government has the potential to do a lot of good, but it involves willingness to spend funds.

35 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:48:44pm

re: #32 dragonath

I wonder when Erickson found out about Oklahoma.

I wonder when Erickson convinced himself he is human.

36 Tigger2  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:49:17pm

re: #32 dragonath

I wonder when Erickson found out about Oklahoma.

I wonder when Erickson is going to find out he’s a dickhead.

37 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:49:21pm

re: #28 Awea

So every school must now be brought up to code to survive an EF-5?

There is no place safe enough for that type of damage.

The town in question has been hit by 4 major tornadoes since 1999, including the infamous F5 event on May 3rd of 1999. Is it too much to expect that their schools be safe?????

38 Awea  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:49:28pm

re: #29 dragonath

I’m not sure if it’s really anyone’s “fault”. The lack of school shelters is either failure of administration, education, imagination, or all of the above.

While tornado’s are frequent during the season, that type of tornado is not.

39 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:50:21pm

re: #27 klys

There really isn’t a right call for an EF-5, except for a below-ground storm shelter. The bullshit is that there wasn’t one in place for so many people.

That was the original point I was making in the previous thread.

40 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:50:21pm

re: #31 AntonSirius

That he’s politicizing the tragedy, of course.

Yep. Every day Obama isn’t in OK will be “proof” of his disdain for white people, but as soon as he lands it’ll immediately be him making the tragedy “all about him.” Look for shouts of “He’s trying to make people forget about the scandals!”

41 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:50:25pm

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

I am watching people stumbling around, holding their little pets in their arms. All they have in the world, their little pet.

That’s all they need. (if they don’t have kids/spouses).

42 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:51:38pm

Liberals can be fuckbags too.

43 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:52:40pm

re: #38 Awea

While tornado’s are frequent during the season, that type of tornado is not.

Again, 4 major tornado events including one confirmed F5 since 1999 in one town. If that is not sufficient reason to think about underground shelters, then we are not actually an intelligent species and we deserve the next bolide impact we get.

44 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:52:51pm

Yeah, it looks like the path is leading directly to the Chicago area.

45 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:52:53pm

re: #39 celticdragon

That was the original point I was making in the previous thread.

The policy you’re decrying, however, is written to deal with the majority of tornadoes - where it is substantially more likely for people to be killed in a vehicle than it in a well-built building, which these schools were.

I wish that there were better shelters at the school. I wish there were public storm shelters. I think it would have saved a lot of lives. So would increased knowledge of watches and warnings, because there are still a lot of people who apparently missed them. But all of these things are separate from the policy that says, when a tornado is on the ground (e.g., a tornado warning), schools do not dismiss students to put them on the road.

46 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:53:45pm

re: #37 celticdragon

The town in question has been hit by 4 major tornadoes since 1999, including the infamous F5 event on May 3rd of 1999. Is it too much to expect that their schools be safe?????

That’s 14 years. If they were going to build a shelter of the magnitude required to protect an entire school’s worth of kids from an EF-5 tornado, I wouldn’t expect it to be finished yet. No disrespect, but building an underground shelter is not something a town can just do at the drop of a hat.

47 Single-handed sailor  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:53:51pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

Yeah, but she at least felt guilty after she found out how bad it was. Erik would never do that.

48 Awea  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:53:56pm

re: #37 celticdragon

The town in question has been hit by 4 major tornadoes since 1999, including the infamous F5 event on May 3rd of 1999. Is it too much to expect that their schools be safe?????

Was the school just recently built, since 1999? Did it survive the F5 event before?

49 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:54:20pm

You’d have to be pretty goddamn psychotic to think of political affiliation first on a day like this. Those kids belonged to no party.

50 Tigger2  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:54:41pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

Liberals can be fuckbags too.

She’s a comedian but there is no excuse for that stupid tweet. but at least she did apologize, that I saw on a different post.

51 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:54:51pm

re: #47 Single-handed sailor

Yeah, but she at least felt guilty after she found out how bad it was. Erik would never do that.

52 Ian G.  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:55:44pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

They can’t fucking help themselves, can they? A fucking monster tornado with dozens dead, including schoolchildren, and they have to take a swipe at the President. They’re sick. They need serious fucking help.

And you just know if this had hit, say, Minneapolis, some fucking windbag like Fischer would be talking about how it’s God’s punishment for Minnesota legalizing gay marriage.

53 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:56:20pm

re: #47 Single-handed sailor

Yeah, but she at least felt guilty after she found out how bad it was. Erik would never do that.

Erick appears to be retweeting people he thinks are hateful or something. Can you feel his pain.

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:56:37pm

Contrast Lizz Winstead’s apology with this from Erickson:

55 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:56:52pm

re: #45 klys

The policy you’re decrying, however, is written to deal with the majority of tornadoes - where it is substantially more likely for people to be killed in a vehicle than it in a well-built building, which these schools were.

I wish that there were better shelters at the school. I wish there were public storm shelters. I think it would have saved a lot of lives. So would increased knowledge of watches and warnings, because there are still a lot of people who apparently missed them. But all of these things are separate from the policy that says, when a tornado is on the ground (e.g., a tornado warning), schools do not dismiss students to put them on the road.

Again, but with feeling…

Intentions. Do. Not. Matter.

Only results matter. The results speak for themselves. The children are dead, and this is in a town that is already notorious for another historic storm within recent memory.

56 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:57:21pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

Contrast Lizz Winstead’s apology with this from Erickson:

Erick, son of Erick, now has a date with a staple gun and my avatar.

57 Ian G.  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:57:29pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

How about the parents of dead kindergarteners, most of whom are probably on your side of the political aisle, you sick fuck?

58 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:58:30pm

re: #55 celticdragon

The policy of not putting them on the roads is a good one, though. You can’t base all policy off of one thing. If a school nearby that wasn’t in the path had put their kids on the bus, those kids might have gotten caught up in it.

59 Awea  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:58:54pm

re: #43 celticdragon

Again, 4 major tornado events including one confirmed F5 since 1999 in one town. If that is not sufficient reason to think about underground shelters, then we are not actually an intelligent species and we deserve the next bolide impact we get.

I would like to believe that they probably did discuss building underground shelters. Who is going to pay for them, is every school in OK going to need them?

60 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 5:59:33pm

re: #57 Ian G.

How about the parents of dead kindergarteners, most of whom are probably on your side of the political aisle, you sick fuck?

Eric son of Eric is simply unspeakable. I will not say anything else regarding him on the grounds of simple decency.

61 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:00:40pm

re: #59 Awea

I would like to believe that they probably did discuss building underground shelters. Who is going to pay for them, is every school in OK going to need them?

I would think weather maps would show which school districts are most prone to being in a tornado’s path, and no, I’m not being facetious.

62 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:00:53pm

re: #55 celticdragon

Again, but with feeling…

Intentions. Do. Not. Matter.

Only results matter. The results speak for themselves. The children are dead, and this is in a town that is already notorious for another historic storm within recent memory.

Absolute safety is a great goal, but it is never a realistic expectation. Keeping the kids in school was, without foreknowledge, the correct choice. Most schools in the region are likely more resistant to damage than most homes in the region. Until/unless most houses in Oklahoma have basements (read: never, due to geology) this will continue to be the case.

It’s horrible and awful and every kind of bad. A bunch of the next generation are dead, and this rightfully hits this generation extremely hard. But unless we get some kind of awful revelation, keeping them in the school was almost certainly the right call.

63 blueraven  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:01:03pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

Liberals can be fuckbags too.

At least she had the decency to apologize. But yeah… that’s just creepy.

64 goddamnedfrank  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:01:06pm

re: #28 Awea

So every school must now be brought up to code to survive an EF-5?

There is no place safe enough for that type of damage.

The school doesn’t have to survive, only the shelter does. Most schools built in the 50’s and 60’s had a fallout shelter and the events necessitating those were even more unlikely.

65 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:01:15pm

re: #59 Awea

I would like to believe that they probably did discuss building underground shelters. Who is going to pay for them, is every school in OK going to need them?

We had similar arguments in this country after kids died in school fires in the 40’s and 50’s.

We can afford whatever we think is valuable.

66 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:01:27pm

re: #55 celticdragon

Again, but with feeling…

Intentions. Do. Not. Matter.

Only results matter. The results speak for themselves. The children are dead, and this is in a town that is already notorious for another historic storm within recent memory.

And if this had gone another way, and the school had dismissed the children in a weaker tornado, and a school bus or three were destroyed with the children in them and the school was fine despite a direct hit, what would you say?

There aren’t great answers. Ideally you would have a below-ground storm shelter. Perhaps there was at least a partial basement. We don’t know.

It’s horrible that the kids have died. No one is disputing that. People have just tried to give you the reason behind a policy that you disagree with, and you are claiming that intentions don’t matter. It’s true, they won’t affect the outcome here, but there are good and distinct reasons for that policy and I hope it continues. I also hope that people start to have a discussion about instituting storm shelters in the schools in this region. That would be an even better outcome.

67 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:01:58pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

Contrast Lizz Winstead’s apology with this from Erickson:

I see your bet and raise:

68 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:02:46pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

I see your bet and raise:

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

69 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:03:08pm

Storms, cicadas . . from the Jesus freaks in

5 .4 . 3. 2 .1

70 Tigger2  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:03:24pm

Death toll is up to 51 now.

71 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:03:56pm

re: #68 dragonath

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

“God causes tornadoes. Get over it.”

72 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:04:27pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

Just a terrible, terrible person.

73 Joanne  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:04:44pm

re: #42 Vicious Babushka

Liberals can be fuckbags too.

She apologized profusely (a real apology) and welcomed ridicule. She posted that before knowing the damage.

And yes, it was a douchey thing to say.

74 Ian G.  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:04:59pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

Um, what?

75 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:05:17pm

re: #71 Targetpractice

“God causes tornadoes. Get over it.”

“Hey buddy, I heard your house burned down last night! Ecclasiates 11:3!”

76 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:06:06pm

re: #68 dragonath

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

In plain old modern American English, ‘shit happens’.

77 GeneJockey  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:08:15pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

You know, every time you think he might have finally hit bottom, he goes for another level of unfeeling shitheadedness.

78 justaminute  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:08:40pm

On TV they are confirming 51 fatalities.

79 Ian G.  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:09:09pm

re: #76 Dr Lizardo

In plain old modern American English, ‘shit happens’.

What a sociopathic thing to say. You know, I thought wingnuts’ response to Hurricane Sandy was just a vindictive swipe at lib’ruls that live in New York, but now I wonder if it’s just hard wired in their head to react that way to every tragedy that strikes. I mean, it doesn’t get much more “Real America” that OKC, and Erickson can’t be bothered with a bit of compassion.

80 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:09:12pm
81 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:09:18pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Just a terrible, terrible person.

It’s the sort of attitude I think we’ve all come to accept from climate change deniers at this point. If you can’t disprove it with oil-funded “science” or find a pet meteorologist to assure folks that global warming isn’t happening, then just crack open the Bible and start quoting shit until you find something that sounds like it fits.

82 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:09:53pm

re: #62 erik_t

(read: never, due to geology) this will continue to be the case.

The center of the state seems to be dominated by Carboniferous carbonates in the north trending towards sandstones and shales in the south as an orogenic period began bringing clastic sediments in. I have not read up on the Carboniferous in some time and I do not have any papers in front of me right now on what was going on here. I suspect you are talking about elevated water tables in the region, and fair enough. That can still be built around, and some homes in the area had underground shelters.

83 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:10:45pm

re: #82 celticdragon

My friends in the region report that limestone starts about two feet below grade. Take that for what you will.

84 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:11:21pm

re: #66 klys

but there are good and distinct reasons for that policy and I hope it continues.

If the building is not safe then there is not good reason for the policy. Period.

We are going to disagree on this one.

85 Sionainn  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:11:25pm

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

The school doesn’t have to survive, only the shelter does. Most schools built in the 50’s and 60’s had a fallout shelter and the events necessitating those were even more unlikely.

None of the schools in Las Vegas had fallout shelters in the ’50s and ’60s.

86 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:12:01pm

re: #84 celticdragon

If the building is not safe then there is not good reason for the policy. Period.

We are going to disagree on this one.

It’s a choice between less safe and not safe at all, which one do you choose?

87 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:12:12pm

re: #79 Ian G.

What a sociopathic thing to say. You know, I thought wingnuts’ response to Hurricane Sandy was just a vindictive swipe at lib’ruls that live in New York, but now I wonder if it’s just hard wired in their head to react that way to every tragedy that strikes. I mean, it doesn’t get much more “Real America” that OKC, and Erickson can’t be bothered with a bit of compassion.

A lot of folks of Mr. Erickson’s ilk are sociopathic, quite frankly.

88 freetoken  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:12:59pm

Our schools never had shelters either - it was just rush to the hallways.

I don’t know how many communities put up the extra money for a shelter sufficient to survive an F5. I suspect they are few.

89 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:13:06pm
90 efuseakay  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:13:14pm

re: #83 erik_t

My friends in the region report that limestone starts about two feet below grade. Take that for what you will.

Same reason you don’t see basements in Austin, TX.

91 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:13:14pm

re: #85 Sionainn

None of the schools in Las Vegas had fallout shelters in the ’50s and ’60s.

The elementary school I went to in Los Angeles certainly didn’t have one. We did have ‘earthquake drills’, however.

92 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:13:53pm

re: #84 celticdragon

If the building is not safe then there is not good reason for the policy. Period.

I mean no offense, but this is not a rational line of thinking. No relevant public private buildings are completely safe; no public or private buildings are completely unsafe. Mix in the issues regarding safety during transit and there will never be a one-size-fits-all policy that is the ideal post-facto scenario in each and every case. It sucks, but it’s the reality with which we must come to grips.

93 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:14:04pm

re: #84 celticdragon

If the building is not safe then there is not good reason for the policy. Period.

We are going to disagree on this one.

What you advocate is for sending children out of a well-constructed building when there is a tornado warning if it is dismissal time.

There is no safe building during an EF-5.

You’re right, we will disagree. I will side with the recommendation of the National Weather Service, which recommends being below-ground or in a storm shelter, but barring that, in a well-constructed building. Not in a car.

94 efuseakay  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:14:06pm

re: #85 Sionainn

None of the schools in Las Vegas had fallout shelters in the ’50s and ’60s.

That’s Old Vegas…

95 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:14:12pm

re: #88 freetoken

Our schools never had shelters either - it was just rush to the hallways.

I don’t know how many communities put up the extra money for a shelter sufficient to survive an F5. I suspect they are few.

My “true hometown” back in fish country was flattened by 2 tornadoes over a 30-year span. They don’t have any underground shelters, let alone ones that would survive an EF-5. Basements, however, are standard issue in fish country, so it’s a bit less important.

96 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:14:17pm

re: #83 erik_t

In other words, annoying to dig into and you need heavy equipment, but nothing so difficult as trying to work in igneous/metamorphic crystalline basement complex rock.

97 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:14:17pm
98 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:14:53pm

re: #86 thedopefishlives

It’s a choice between less safe and not safe at all, which one do you choose?

The choice seems to be not safe and not safe. I say we can do better then that.

99 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:15:38pm

Dear god…I heard about the kids in the school basement on the radio as I was driving home. How awful…they did the right thing by going down there.

100 freetoken  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:15:44pm

re: #89 lawhawk

Yeah, storms all over the place. My elderly mother called to tell me the nurses were moving her to the hallway because of a warning. Pretty standard practice.

Tomorrow the action will move farther south:
spc.noaa.gov

101 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:15:46pm

re: #97 lawhawk

I am going to leave off the expletives and just note that maybe we really do get the government we deserve.

/spit/

102 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:15:56pm

re: #88 freetoken

Our schools never had shelters either - it was just rush to the hallways.

I don’t know how many communities put up the extra money for a shelter sufficient to survive an F5. I suspect they are few.

Yeah, that’s the sort of drills I remember when I lived in Kentucky. Go out in the hallway, line up against the wall, huddle down, and stay there until they gave the all-clear.

I’m reminded of the old “duck and cover” movies from the 50s, which would have been about as effective in the event of a nuclear blast.

103 Sionainn  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:16:02pm

re: #91 Dr Lizardo

The elementary school I went to in Los Angeles certainly didn’t have one. We did have ‘earthquake drills’, however.

We have earthquake drills in Las Vegas, and shelter in place where the teachers are supposed to use masking tape to “seal” the doors and windows. Yes, really.

104 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:16:20pm

re: #96 celticdragon

In other words, annoying to dig into and you need heavy equipment, but nothing so difficult as trying to work in igneous/metamorphic crystalline basement complex rock.

Would you rather spend the money on such shelters, or would you rather spend it on teachers? How about other meaningful and critical infrastructure?

The entire world is a balancing act. When you attempt to balance, sometimes you fall from the line.

When you fall, you then reconsider how you wave your arms; you do not declare that balancing is forbidden.

105 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:16:37pm

re: #99 darthstar

Dear god…I heard about the kids in the school basement on the radio as I was driving home. How awful…they did the right thing by going down there.

TV says they were in a hall.

If there was indeed a basement, then we really did exhaust all possibilities.

106 Sionainn  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:17:12pm

re: #94 efuseakay

That’s Old Vegas…

Yes, it is. My daughter goes to one of the oldest schools in the city, built in the 1950s. It’s old and decrepit, but what goes on in the school is awesome.

107 kirkspencer  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:17:15pm

re: #84 celticdragon

If the building is not safe then there is not good reason for the policy. Period.

We are going to disagree on this one.

So if it is not absolute, just give up?

The school was the best of several bad choices. Had the tornado been smaller the school would probably have withstood the damage, using past history of similar schools getting hit by F1 and F2 tornadoes as the basis.

108 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:17:35pm

re: #103 Sionainn

We have earthquake drills in Las Vegas, and shelter in place where the teachers are supposed to use masking tape to “seal” the doors and windows. Yes, really.

Interesting. We never did that - we got in place under the desks, and then jumped out the windows after the ‘shaking’ stopped. All preparation for the long-awaited Big One.

109 Awea  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:18:06pm

re: #98 celticdragon

The choice seems to be not safe and not safe. I say we can do better then that.

So if they make an underground shelter that is safe for a tornado, better make sure it is safe against flooding, also better make sure it has a generator and an air conditioner because it does get hot in there crammed with people. Hope it is safe against earthquakes too.

You can’t make it safe against everything!

110 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:18:06pm

re: #107 kirkspencer

Give up if you want. I say we demand better.

111 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:18:42pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

He needs to remember that when he’s been sorted with the goats…

112 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:18:57pm

re: #98 celticdragon

The choice seems to be not safe and not safe. I say we can do better then that.

EF-5 are not the majority of tornadoes.

Off the top of my head, they account for ~1% of tornadoes.

For the other 99%, what you advocate is the course of action more likely to kill kids - and we have no proof that the children would have survived this one if they’d been sent home.

Now, can we have a discussion about building storm shelters? That would be great, without tying it to a policy which is actually based on best-practices as suggested by the National Weather Service.

113 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:19:18pm

re: #110 celticdragon

Give up if you want. I say we demand better.

Speaking as an engineer, this is an irritatingly easy statement to make.

I feel as you feel; today was an awful, awful day. Many people died, and less should have died. But shaking sabers and shouting against the clouds is not an answer to the problem.

114 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:20:02pm

re: #109 Awea

So if they make an underground shelter that is safe for a tornado, better make sure it is safe against flooding, also better make sure it has a generator and an air conditioner because it does get hot in there crammed with people. Hope it is safe against earthquakes too.

You can’t make it safe against everything!

Unless you refer to the New Madrid fault zone, I would guess that OKC has little expectation of earthquakes. Large tornadoes seem to be somewhat more common, however…

115 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:20:21pm

re: #102 Targetpractice

Yeah, that’s the sort of drills I remember when I lived in Kentucky. Go out in the hallway, line up against the wall, huddle down, and stay there until they gave the all-clear.

I’m reminded of the old “duck and cover” movies from the 50s, which would have been about as effective in the event of a nuclear blast.

In Detroit in the Catholic School we had to go into the basement. I remember those little yellow and black fallout signs on the walls near the ceilings. Our building was sooo old. We had a unfinished tunnel to the church basement from the school. I think it was mined in the late 1800’s. Solid rock as I remember.

I hated it.

116 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:20:43pm

re: #105 celticdragon

TV says they were in a hall.

If there was indeed a basement, then we really did exhaust all possibilities.

Six kids were in a basement that flooded.

117 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:21:16pm

re: #116 darthstar

Six kids were in a basement that flooded.

Damn.

118 kirkspencer  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:21:30pm

re: #110 celticdragon

Give up if you want. I say we demand better.

No, you’re changing your line.

You condemned the people because they kept the kids in the building. that’s present situation, not past. Nobody’s got a time machine to go back and make shelters that can be used now. What they had was a bad choice now - one which wasn’t really that bad had it not been F4/5.

You bet, demand better. But don’t attack the people doing the best they could with what they had to hand at the moment.

119 Targetpractice  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:21:39pm

re: #97 lawhawk

No matter how far down one moves the bar, the GOP finds a way to limbo under it.

120 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:21:41pm
121 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:21:45pm

Wingnuts are all over Liz Winstead like stink on shit, while totally ignoring Erik ben Erik.

122 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:22:02pm

Tornado watches/warnings until 3am CDT.

123 Sionainn  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:22:14pm

re: #108 Dr Lizardo

Interesting. We never did that - we got in place under the desks, and then jumped out the windows after the ‘shaking’ stopped. All preparation for the long-awaited Big One.

To be clear, the shelter in place is different than the earthquake drills. Shelter in place is in case there is some sort of fumes from burning chemicals. I think they started that after the Pepcon blast.

124 bratwurst  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:23:27pm
125 AntonSirius  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:23:28pm

re: #88 freetoken

I don’t know how many communities put up the extra money for a shelter sufficient to survive an F5. I suspect they are few.

T Boone Pickens, to pick one example, could probably afford to have a few built without making a dent in his net worth. So could Gates’ foundation.

126 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:24:21pm

re: #123 Sionainn

To be clear, the shelter in place is different than the earthquake drills. Shelter in place is in case there is some sort of fumes from burning chemicals. I think they started that after the Pepcon blast.

Ah, OK.

127 goddamnedfrank  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:24:24pm

A lot of people who are categorically denying their school had a fallout shelter don’t realize it was built and then forgotten.

Workers at Northern California’s Placer High School in Auburn found quite a surprise during a remodeling project: a fully stocked Cold War bomb shelter.

According to the Auburn Journal, the shelter was discovered by volunteers working to repaint the school’s weight-lifting room. A small locked screen door had concealed the room, presumably for 60 years.

These kinds of structures were/are far more common than people think, anachronistic time capsules created by the Civil Defense Administration.

128 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:25:15pm

re: #125 AntonSirius

T Boone Pickens, to pick one example, could probably afford to have a few built without making a dent in his net worth. So could Gates’ foundation.

Then we fall into feudalism. no?

129 GeneJockey  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:25:22pm

re: #124 bratwurst

“Unfortunately, that train has sailed.”

130 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:26:08pm

re: #113 erik_t

Speaking as an engineer, this is an irritatingly easy statement to make.

I feel as you feel; today was an awful, awful day. Many people died, and less should have died. But shaking sabers and shouting against the clouds is not an answer to the problem.

My degree is in geology, so I have some appreciation for complaints about digging in rock.

However, as a member of the wealthiest society in the history of our species with the ability to buy radar evading bombers that quite literally would have been cheaper if built out of solid gold, I tend to also think we can actually afford things that we think are important…and safe schools that both educate and protect from expected hazards are simply not what we think is important it seems.

131 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:26:45pm

re: #125 AntonSirius

T Boone Pickens, to pick one example, could probably afford to have a few built without making a dent in his net worth. So could Gates’ foundation.

There have been, I didn’t count carefully, 30 or 40 EF5 tornadoes ever recorded/categorized. The question must be asked: is designing structures to this level of safety the best use of our money, or would we be better off with (say) twice as many EF3-rated structures?

Again: these questions do not have easy or non-controversial answers.

132 CarleeCork  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:27:10pm

re: #87 Dr Lizardo

A lot of folks of Mr. Erickson’s ilk are sociopathic, quite frankly.

A lot of “conservatives” are sociopathic.

133 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:27:11pm

re: #118 kirkspencer

No, you’re changing your line.

You condemned the people because they kept the kids in the building. that’s present situation, not past. Nobody’s got a time machine to go back and make shelters that can be used now. What they had was a bad choice now - one which wasn’t really that bad had it not been F4/5.

You bet, demand better. But don’t attack the people doing the best they could with what they had to hand at the moment.

They kept the children in a building that was not able to protect them. That is fairly obvious given the outcome.

134 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:28:05pm

re: #133 celticdragon

They kept the children in a building that was not able to protect them. That is fairly obvious given the outcome.

You really aren’t responding to the fact that, if things had turned out differently, being on the road would have been more dangerous.

135 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:28:23pm

re: #124 bratwurst

I think he’s asking people not to criticize tone-deaf assholes like Senator Coburn who talk about budget off-sets while people are still looking for their children in the rubble.

136 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:28:41pm

Daily Caller: Demonic fuckbags

137 GeneJockey  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:28:43pm

re: #133 celticdragon

They kept the children in a building that was not able to protect them. That is fairly obvious given the outcome.

Was there another, safer option available at the time, not “Gee, if only…”?

138 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:28:58pm

The spousal unit is grousing, so I am out for now. Prayers for everybody there.

Pretty bad damned day, and I am in a dark spot right now thinking about it. :(

139 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:29:22pm

re: #133 celticdragon

They kept the children in a building that was not able to protect them. That is fairly obvious given the outcome.

You’re arguing backwards. You have your desired result and are projecting your desired solution as a superior option, when it was not an option on this day.

140 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:29:34pm

re: #130 celticdragon

My degree is in geology, so I have some appreciation for complaints about digging in rock.

However, as a member of the wealthiest society in the history of our species with the ability to buy radar evading bombers that quite literally would have been cheaper if built out of solid gold, I tend to also think we can actually afford things that we think are important…and safe schools that both educate and protect from expected hazards are simply not what we think is important it seems.

I agree with you.

141 AntonSirius  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:30:18pm

re: #128 FemNaziBitch

Then we fall into feudalism. no?

Hey, Gates is all for spending money to lecture us on how we educate our kids. I don’t think a few more bucks to make sure they stay alive long enough to get educated is asking a lot.

142 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:31:14pm

re: #134 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

You really aren’t responding to the fact that, if things had turned out differently, being on the road would have been more dangerous.

Would it have been, given that they died where they were?? I have difficulty believing that they were actually safer being in the spot where they died. It seems, ahem, counter intuitive to say the least.

143 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:31:17pm

re: #133 celticdragon

They kept the children in a building that was not able to protect them. That is fairly obvious given the outcome.

There were no buildings capable of protecting them.

I mean, unless you have a tornado path prognosticator and you knew 100% that the building was going to be hit as an EF-5, then you could have moved them.

I get being upset that there isn’t more done to put public storm shelters in place. I wouldn’t live in that area without a storm shelter. I get that. I also get why the policy exists and for all but the edge cases, it is a good policy.

Unfortunately, it happens that the edge case is essentially: everyone’s fucked.

144 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:31:46pm

re: #130 celticdragon

However, as a member of the wealthiest society in the history of our species with the ability to buy radar evading bombers that quite literally would have been cheaper if built out of solid gold

That’s very much not literal. Indeed, it’s off by nearly an order of magnitude. I get that you’re very emotional right now. I am too. Throwing careless statements around does not solve anything.

I tend to also think we can actually afford things that we think are important…and safe schools that both educate and protect from expected hazards are simply not what we think is important it seems.

Agreed; there are many ways we could spend money intelligently. How sure are you that EF5 structures is one of those ways? How will you force taxes sufficient to make these a reality? How about structures in homes? An adult is no less dead after a tornado than a child. If you can’t force taxes, what other domestic spending will you cut to make these structures a reality?

145 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:32:06pm

re: #141 AntonSirius

Hey, Gates is all for spending money to lecture us on how we educate our kids. I don’t think a few more bucks to make sure they stay alive long enough to get educated is asking a lot.

It has to be a government program. Otherwise it will be unequal. Who decides which schools get Gate’s funds?

I’m not going to debate the allocation of tax money today. It’s not the time.

146 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:32:09pm

re: #142 celticdragon

Would it have been, given that they died where they were?? I have difficulty believing that they were actually safer being in the spot where they died. It seems, ahem, counter intuitive to say the least.

The weather service can give tornado warnings but we have not gotten to the point of predicting tornado paths yet, beyond a somewhat general sense. Even tornado warnings give, generally 10-20 minutes warning.

147 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:32:13pm

re: #142 celticdragon

Would it have been, given that they died where they were?? I have difficulty believing that they were actually safer being in the spot where they died. It seems, ahem, counter intuitive to say the least.

I’m going to lay this out bluntly so maybe you get it: They would have died no matter what. More would have died with the alternative option (sending them out in buses). Those are your options.

148 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:32:46pm

re: #139 thedopefishlives

You’re arguing backwards. You have your desired result and are projecting your desired solution as a superior option, when it was not an option on this day.

And why was it not? Are you not the least bit interested? Why were there no shelters for them?

I really do have to go. See you all tomorrow on a btter day, hopefully.

149 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:33:55pm

re: #144 erik_t

That’s very much not literal. Indeed, it’s off by nearly an order of magnitude. I get that you’re very emotional right now. I am too. Throwing careless statements around does not solve anything.

Agreed; there are many ways we could spend money intelligently. How sure are you that EF5 structures is one of those ways? How will you force taxes sufficient to make these a reality? How about structures in homes? An adult is no less dead after a tornado than a child. If you can’t force taxes, what other domestic spending will you cut to make these structures a reality?

The thing is that I bet all the money and whatever in safe-deposit boxes and banks is very safe. I understand where celtic-dragon is coming from. I don’t think we are going to come to any sort of agreement today.

For all the rhetoric, we don’t put our children first—as a nation.

150 Tigger2  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:34:00pm

re: #97 lawhawk

That could just create more Democratic voters in OK if true.

151 AntonSirius  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:34:20pm

re: #131 erik_t

There have been, I didn’t count carefully, en.wikipedia.org>en.wikipedia.org>30 or 40 EF5 tornadoes ever recorded/categorized. The question must be asked: is designing structures to this level of safety the best use of our money, or would we be better off with (say) twice as many EF3-rated structures?

Again: these questions do not have easy or non-controversial answers.

No, they don’t. I was just making the same point celticdragon made at #130 though. A lack of money is not the obstacle to building more and better shelters.

152 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:35:20pm

re: #148 celticdragon

And why was it not? Are you not the least bit interested? Why were there no shelters for them?

I really do have to go. See you all tomorrow on a btter day, hopefully.

I can tell you the answer: $$$$$$. And “it won’t happen here.”

Sucks. I get that this is a horrible event. Just take some time, take a breather away, because you are reacting on a gut emotional level I think.

153 celticdragon  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:35:26pm

re: #144 erik_t

That’s very much not literal. Indeed, it’s off by nearly an order of magnitude.

To be fair, it was in 1979-1982 prices…and yes, I do believe that cost over runs included, you end up with Gold B2 bombers.

154 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:36:13pm

re: #151 AntonSirius

No, they don’t. I was just making the same point celticdragon made at #130 though. A lack of money is not the obstacle to building more and better shelters.

No, not at all!!!

But we must be rational in how we approach this problem. ALL CHILDREN MUST BE SAFE IN ALL CONDITIONS POSSIBLE is, unfortunately, not an available option with the technology we currently possess.

155 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:37:20pm

re: #154 erik_t

No, not at all!!!

But we must be rational in how we approach this problem. ALL CHILDREN MUST BE SAFE IN ALL CONDITIONS POSSIBLE is, unfortunately, not an available option with the technology we currently possess.

I think this is the gist of what I want to say, really. I get that we grieve for these kids and we wish that things had worked out differently. We all agree there. However, as a practical matter, I understand that sometimes we can’t always get everything we want, and that includes our childrens’ safety.

156 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:38:22pm

re: #155 thedopefishlives

I think this is the gist of what I want to say, really. I get that we grieve for these kids and we wish that things had worked out differently. We all agree there. However, as a practical matter, I understand that sometimes we can’t always get everything we want, and that includes our childrens’ safety.

We are only human.

It’s the politicans I wonder about.

157 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:38:33pm

Image: ZZ37CCEB18.jpg

158 CarleeCork  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:38:44pm

re: #143 klys

There were no buildings capable of protecting them.

I mean, unless you have a tornado path prognosticator and you knew 100% that the building was going to be hit as an EF-5, then you could have moved them.

I get being upset that there isn’t more done to put public storm shelters in place. I wouldn’t live in that area without a storm shelter. I get that. I also get why the policy exists and for all but the edge cases, it is a good policy.

Unfortunately, it happens that the edge case is essentially: everyone’s fucked.

You would ONLY have that shelter if you could afford it. My anger comes when only the wealthy can afford to survive.

159 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:39:12pm

re: #157 Charles Johnson

Image: ZZ37CCEB18.jpg

And those are the lucky ones from inside that school.

160 FemNaziBitch  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:42:00pm

I need to take a break.

bbl

161 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:43:55pm

There is no bag of dicks big enough to feed Erik Erikson

162 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:44:06pm

Another pic from my friend in Texas…mammatus at sunset. Pretty.

Image: 945262_10201359097201431_1844208284_n.jpg

163 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:46:11pm

re: #161 Vicious Babushka

There is no bag of dicks big enough to feed Erik Erikson

164 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:46:54pm

Where to spend money:

1) Basic research on where, how, and why tornadoes form, as well as why some tornadoes turn into EF-5 monsters and others are EF-0.
2) Satellites and detection systems to get better warnings.
3) Warning system to better alert public to impending danger.
4) Better public safety bunker/secure locations for schools and other public structures.

And that is the order I’d put on them too.

165 Single-handed sailor  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:48:19pm

Time-lapse video of the tornado.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6HKu9xV55g

166 Single-handed sailor  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:49:05pm

well, that didn’t work.

167 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:50:12pm
168 Joanne  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:50:12pm

re: #65 celticdragon

We had similar arguments in this country after kids died in school fires in the 40’s and 50’s.

We can afford whatever we think is valuable.

We already know what many Americans think about schools and teachers.

169 lawhawk  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:50:58pm
170 AntonSirius  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:52:47pm

re: #161 Vicious Babushka

There is no bag of dicks big enough to feed Erik Erikson

171 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:52:53pm

Dim Jim is a horrible, horrible fuckbag

172 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:53:42pm

I thought a “massacre” was when people were murdered by other people.

173 Joanne  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:55:58pm

re: #84 celticdragon

If the building is not safe then there is not good reason for the policy. Period.

We are going to disagree on this one.

In a lesser tornado, it might have been safe. This wasn’t a “normal” tornado. And tornados don’t give warnings like hurricanes do. This is a tragedy.

I hope they get infrastructure funding for below ground shelters.

174 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 6:58:49pm
175 darthstar  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:00:23pm
176 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:02:32pm

re: #174 darthstar

So in other words, ABC is feeling the pressure. May need to try to remember how to log into twitter.

177 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:05:39pm

re: #164 lawhawk

I would move #1 to #4. Simply because Storm strength is still a massive crapshot. For a quarter century, the National Hurricane Center has made great strides in reducing the amount of error in a forecast prediction for track and location.

However, for all their efforts in the same time in trying to improve on intensity, the results there have been much, much smaller.

178 Stanghazi  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:09:20pm

re: #175 darthstar

Creepy avatar.

179 ninja cat  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:15:05pm

O/T I’m reading that the convictions against General Jose Efrain Rios Montt, Guatemala, have been annulled. Only links are in Spanish.

180 jaunte  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:16:36pm
181 erik_t  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:18:55pm

re: #180 jaunte

“It’ll stay below 700 deaths” is cold comfort, indeed.

182 BongCrodny  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:23:13pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

Contrast Lizz Winstead’s apology with this from Erickson:

Really can’t get worked up by lefties upset with me. When are they not?

Personally speaking, it would be the 99.999% of the time I spend not thinking about you.

183 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:47:37pm

OT

Florida is trying to ban hookahs.

It passed.

184 AlexRogan  Mon, May 20, 2013 7:52:16pm

re: #161 Vicious Babushka

There is no bag of dicks big enough to feed Erik Erikson

185 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:01:02pm

And now, this:

186 allegro  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:05:09pm

I spent my little kidhood (1953 - 64) in Enid, OK. There were no basements or shelters, though we had tornado drills in which we all went into the halls with a hard-backed book put over our heads as we hunkered down. The only underground tornado shelter I ever saw outside of the movie Wizard of Oz was at my affectionately “adopted” grandmother’ house. She used it to store all her canned goods.

The closest I ever got to getting creamed by a tornado was a few months after we moved to Chicago. It got very dark and creepy out and as an Okie kid I was like “hellooooo!” and kinda freaking. The teacher just got mad as us for being distracted and shut all the shades so we couldn’t see what was going on outside. Tornado touched down about a block away and did considerable damage, including a bit to the school. THAT was being unprepared and putting the kids in harms way. I don’t see how anyone could have done a better job today in Moore.

187 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:08:17pm
188 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:09:08pm

re: #27 klys

We are going to have to go below ground, probably within 100 years.

189 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:09:29pm

re: #188 prairiefire

We are going to have to go below ground, probably within 100 years.

Make that 50.

190 austin_blue  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:13:21pm

re: #90 efuseakay

Same reason you don’t see basements in Austin, TX.

True. Rock is two feet below my house. My neighbor across the street has a lot that falls twenty feet, front to back. To get in his pier system in 1950, they had to excavate twenty feet back into the grade. *He’s* got a 20’ horizontally deep basement.

We have an agreement:

In case of a tornado warning, She Who Must Be Obeyed and myself will come calling with wine and single malt. Fair trade for a hobbit hutch.

I was up in Jarrell after the F5.

I’m an ER Coordinator and first responder. I have seen fucked up, but I have never seen fucked up like that. Asphalt sucked off roads. Cars ripped to to pieces down to their frames. Twenty black angus cattle picked up, de-haired, skinned, and dropped 1/2 mile away from their pasturage. A chunk of a refrigerator (with the delivery still attached) found twenty miles away.

More moisture in the air coming up from the Gulf because of latent atmospheric heat. More late season cold fronts driving south because of jet stream shifts. Welcome to the Greenhouse, Lizards. It’s the New Normal.

191 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:15:53pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Well said.

192 Dr. Matt  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:17:42pm

Erik Erikson is an insufferable asshole. Nuff said.

193 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:19:21pm

re: #190 austin_blue

My best friend who passed away awhile back from pancreatic cancer? Her widower was flying in that in Texas. I quote ~

“Tow bar jumped up and put a hole in the rear wind screen. And, the battery broke out of its case, dented the fuselage, then killed the ELT.”

He made an excellent landing and paused for repairs.

194 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:19:53pm

re: #191 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Well said.

Well it was either that or the usual:

Youtube Video
195 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:28:04pm

I hope Hoops is ok.

196 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:28:43pm

re: #195 prairiefire

I hope Hoops is ok.

Me too. I heard thunder just now.

197 Minor_L  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:33:30pm

I have no words:

198 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:34:37pm

re: #195 prairiefire

If he is in Norman, he will be. Norman escaped damage it sounds like.

It’s likely a lack on internet or phones. If he doesn’t appear in the next 72 hours, then I worry.

I have gone to Warren theater, and eaten at the now destroyed restaurants there. It’s a bit weird for me to see an area I spent 4 years in looking like a small A-Bomb got dropped on it. And that off course led to regret about what I said earlier.

199 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:35:02pm

re: #197 Minor_L

I have no words:

I couldn’t get the reply feature to work for that tweet. It’s just as well, since my response would have been unprintable.

200 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:36:01pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I responded, but not by writing anything to him. I went a bit more passive-aggressive.

I reported him for spam.

201 Minor_L  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:36:10pm

re: #199 Dark_Falcon

I keep wanting to respond, but I can’t even find the words. He is depraved.

202 makeitstop  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:38:46pm

re: #197 Minor_L

I have no words:

I think I’ll take my dear mother’s advice about not having anything good to say. What an asshole.

203 Single-handed sailor  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:39:27pm

A TV station in OKC is reporting debris from the Moore, OK tornado found as far away as Branson.

204 Kragar  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:41:32pm

Pitched my idea tonight and it met with positive responses.

Humans with funny ears/skin out.

Lovecraftian nonhuman aliens in.

205 Minor_L  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:45:48pm

re: #202 makeitstop

Not that it would help, but it’s not even clever or witty. It’s a pathetic, shallow right wing talking point. It requires using the victims of Gosnell to be able to bring up the talking point, and the Oklahoma victims to score his cheap shot. He really does seem like a sociopath, but also narcissistic. It’s all about him and his political beefs.

206 sagehen  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:46:30pm

re: #204 Kragar

Pitched my idea tonight and it met with positive responses.

Humans with funny ears/skin out.

Lovecraftian nonhuman aliens in.

Remember the fangirls; there must be slash potential. One obvious OTP, preferably involving a human/alien pairing, and an Obstacle to that pairing.

207 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:46:54pm

re: #203 Single-handed sailor

Branson is off about 160-170 miles away to the east, close-ish to the border with Arkansas.

208 Kragar  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:48:57pm

re: #206 sagehen

Remember the fangirls; there must be slash potential. One obvious OTP, preferably involving a human/alien pairing, and an Obstacle to that pairing.

Does being rendered down to your base elements via digestive secretions count as an obstacle?

209 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:49:06pm

Tonight’s war photo also delivers a large dose of Cute.

Source here.

210 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:50:10pm

re: #206 sagehen

I have comments here, but will keep them to myself.

211 Minor_L  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:51:36pm

re: #209 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for that much needed cute overload!

212 Ian G.  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:52:32pm

re: #197 Minor_L

What the….?

I know he’s just trolling, but the imbecile must be dimly aware that those of us who want abortion legal are horrified by the possibility that monsters like Gosnell will be the only option for women who have their reproductive rights limited, right?

Or to borrow from the NRA, when abortion is outlawed, only outlaws will perform abortions.

That’s enough mental energy spent on Erickson. He’s a sad human being who feeds off the anger of other people. He doesn’t deserve mine.

213 jaunte  Mon, May 20, 2013 8:54:51pm

re: #204 Kragar

Pitched my idea tonight and it met with positive responses.

Humans with funny ears/skin out.

Lovecraftian nonhuman aliens in.

Earlier today I saw an article (which I can’t find now) about ant/acacia tree interdependence, and thought you might be able to use a similar idea in your project:
scientificamerican.com

214 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:06:08pm

re: #204 Kragar

Pitched my idea tonight and it met with positive responses.

Humans with funny ears/skin out.

Lovecraftian nonhuman aliens in.

I had some thoughts this morning for you: littlegreenfootballs.com

Sounds like a fun project.

215 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:09:12pm

a few tidbits I’ve heard in this awful event, the tornado wind speeds were clocked around 300kmh, not mph, High EF-4 range, but not ‘take the top two feet of soil and pavement from the bedrock’ level.

I also heard that at least 4 of the students in the school drowned when they sheltered in the basement, which flooded with water from the torrential rains that came with the storm. :(

The NWS has changed their tune slightly on choosing between sheltering and trying to flee the storm. Basically if you don’t think you can survive where you are (IE, a mobile home, or in a wood frame house with no storm cellar and an EF 4 or 5 heading your way), it’s better to take your chances and try to drive out of the path of the storm.

And honestly, the amount of money and effort it would take to retrofit every school, not enough people would be willing to pay the monetary costs, They’d rather roll their dice and play the odds that their kids school won’t be hit. I’m not saying it as a callous statement of people. Just that once things settle down, 6 months from now, or a year, people won’t remember why they wanted to hike their LOST to pay for school improvements. Or why their millage is going up because people want to dig basements in their school.

:( This whole thing sucks.

216 sagehen  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:12:12pm

re: #208 Kragar

Does being rendered down to your base elements via digestive secretions count as an obstacle?

Only if there’s a way around it…

217 dragonath  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:16:33pm

re: #212 Ian G.

What the….?
That’s enough mental energy spent on Erickson. He’s a sad human being who feeds off the anger of other people. He doesn’t deserve mine.

You know, they made a Star Trek episode about that once…

218 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:20:44pm

I should mention that, with the big exception of this being horrific, and the minor leak earlier. I feel the best I have since in 22 months.

I don’t know if the Depression is gone, but it certainly has a massive crack now.

219 Mich-again  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:22:44pm

re: #190 austin_blue

More moisture in the air coming up from the Gulf because of latent atmospheric heat. More late season cold fronts driving south because of jet stream shifts. Welcome to the Greenhouse, Lizards. It’s the New Normal.

Yep. And the oceans have 1000 times more heat storage capacity than the atmosphere. Small changes in ocean temperature mean big changes in the climate.

220 Joanne  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:50:40pm

re: #218 ProTARDISLiberal

I should mention that, with the big exception of this being horrific, and the minor leak earlier. I feel the best I have since in 22 months.

I don’t know if the Depression is gone, but it certainly has a massive crack now.

Sometimes, when you see someone who has lost everything, it’s easier to assess your own life. When I get down (I have bouts of depression), I remind myself that I have a roof over my head and never go hungry. Then I try to guilt myself out it by telling myself that I’m selfish for having a pity party because my life could be a hell of lot worse.

Today shows just how much worse.

221 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:51:18pm

re: #218 ProTARDISLiberal

I should mention that, with the big exception of this being horrific, and the minor leak earlier. I feel the best I have since in 22 months.

I don’t know if the Depression is gone, but it certainly has a massive crack now.

Glad you’re feeling better. It shows in your posts.

222 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 9:58:23pm

This is getting really serious:

I’ve only seen this twice. Once with Katrina, then Sandy last year.

If I can’t go to Oklahoma to atone for my cold-hearted leak earlier, then I will sign away my paycheck for the week.

223 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:06:34pm

re: #208 Kragar

Does being rendered down to your base elements via digestive secretions count as an obstacle?

eww…

224 engineer cat  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:12:35pm

when with what terrifying whirling anger like a god gone mad,
even when we thought we were safe inside our hours and weeks, our dollars and writing and jobs, blind eternity comes from nowhere to strike us down,

tell me, how do we talk about it then?

we who are drunk on our explanations, our reasons, us, lovers of arguments, the warm animal that strides over all with our absolute math, our irrefutable physics, the animal who thinks he understands

what do we say now?

225 RadicalModerate  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:17:27pm

Oh, this is very, very bad news. Estimated dead from the Moore, OK tornado has just been revised.

Vast Oklahoma Tornado Kills at Least 91

CNN has breaking news with the following info as well:

— The Oklahoma Medical Examiner’s Office has been told to expect about 40 additional bodies, according the office’s Amy Elliott. The official death toll will not rise until the bodies are processed.

226 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:19:33pm

re: #224 engineer cat

when with what terrifying whirling anger like a god gone mad,
even when we thought we were safe inside our hours and weeks, our dollars and writing and jobs, blind eternity comes from nowhere to strike us down,

tell me, how do we talk about it then?

we who are drunk on our explanations, our reasons, us, lovers of arguments, the warm animal that strides over all with our absolute math, our irrefutable physics, the animal who thinks he understands

what do we say now?

We explain what happened based on what we know and what we can learn, we save whoever we can, and then we rebuild as best as humans may. That’s all we can do.

And with that, Good Night to all.

227 Kragar  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:21:38pm

re: #223 prairiefire

eww…

Take this basic idea:

Ralstonia metallidurans bacteria can pull toxic dissolved gold out of solution and precipitate it.

Now imagine a bacterial or fungal organism developing a colony type intelligence, where the more of them working together are capable of high intelligence, who instead of crafting tools like we would, break down materials into their raw components and then extrude or deposit items they might need, building it up by laying down layer upon layer of material.

Many of their devices would have a resinous/lacquer like appearance. They would also be able to repair their ships in deep space by extruding a protective scab over the damage and rebuilding it from the inside to seal the breach.

228 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:27:39pm

re: #227 Kragar

Like termites?!?

Curious Lurker, be well!

229 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:34:54pm

re: #227 Kragar

On one hand, this is completely awesome. Advancement of technology!

On the other hand, some part of this skeeves me out for some reason.

230 prairiefire  Mon, May 20, 2013 10:50:23pm

Honestly, everything rebuilt after this in OK, will have a lovely flight of marble stairs taking you below ground for the school, dmv, grocery store, etc.
Lord God’s blessings on the injured and grieving.

231 Single-handed sailor  Mon, May 20, 2013 11:07:12pm

Study: White Americans More Likely to See Obama as Angry Than Non-White Americans

The study showed more than 100 participants - who identified as white, black, native American and Asian - a silent video of Obama’s 2010 White House Correspondents Dinner speech, a night in which the president traditionally cracks jokes at the press and lawmakers, and asked them to describe how they thought Obama was feeling based on his facial expressions. White participants were slightly more likely to assign anger to the president, rating both his smiles and neutral displays as seven points higher on average than non-white participants out of a potential 100 points.

Of course the comments are full of racism, why do you even ask?

232 Capitalist Tool  Mon, May 20, 2013 11:43:36pm

The hail started suddenly and drove me indoors today, here in OKC, then the sirens started… The absolute safest thing one can do at that point is to turn on the TV and watch the weather broadcasts. They will show you the approximate storm track and tell you if necessary, like they did today, “get below ground or get out of the way if you want to survive- this is a big one.”

I’ve been poised and ready to jump in my ride and drive out of harm’s way for some number of twisters in past, including the May 3, 1999 monster in which the highest ground speed winds on the planet were recorded. The trick is to figure out which way the storm is tracking and then go somewhere else… no structure can stand against the big ones, like today.

A small one formed up instantly 1/2 block down the street from me a couple of years ago and topped out a 60’ section of a neighbor’s treetop and dropped it next to my house and then ripped all of the trees from my neighbor across the street before suddenly pulling back up into the clouds and dissipating. Those minding the radars didn’t even have time to trip the sirens (obnoxious contraptions which have saved hundreds of thousands of us) before we were hit… that’s just the way it is.

Today was a monster. I might know myself to be an old gnarly badass of sorts, but when the first helicopter was able to get into the area and flew over the worst- hit school, I bawled like a baby for quite some time.

I can’t help but notice in this thread that some number of people have been calling someone I’ve never heard of (Erick Erickson) to task for trying to make political hay of today’s overwhelming tragedy.
All I can say to that is- Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse- what a weasel… way to go, people of Rhode Island for electing such a slimeball to speak for you.

233 stabby  Mon, May 20, 2013 11:45:15pm

re: #231 Single-handed sailor

He’s always seemed professorial to me. A bit too rational and reasonable, too consolatory, more like an academic than a politician.

He tries to appeal to reason long I’d be livid, taking names and kicking asses.

Of course if you’re a black hating racist I suppose you imagine how they’d react to your own attitude.

234 stabby  Mon, May 20, 2013 11:49:11pm

The only real swipe I’ve heard him take was:

‘“Why don’t you get a drink with Mitch McConnell?” they ask. Really? Why don’t you get a drink with Mitch McConnell?’

235 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 12:58:46am

Niman hao, honcos!

In the words of Alcibiades: “Gentlemen, I am drunk!”

236 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 1:00:02am

Crap! My Muse just began chanting the next chapter… Must go!

237 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 21, 2013 1:38:35am

Fun exercise of the night: type “Sheldon Whitehouse global warming Oklahoma” into a search engine and attempt to find something that is not the conservative blog echo chamber.

238 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 21, 2013 1:48:04am

His speech, posted on his website, notes that it was prepared for today (because the Senate actually started debate on a global warming bill, imagine that). The apparently offensive line:

So you may have a question for me: why do you care? Why do you, Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, care if we Republicans run off the climate cliff like a bunch of proverbial lemmings, and disgrace ourselves?

I’ll tell you why. We’re stuck in this together. When cyclones tear up Oklahoma, and hurricanes swamp Alabama, and wildfires scorch Texas, you come to us, for billions of dollars to recover.

And the damage your polluters and deniers are doing doesn’t just hit Oklahoma and Alabama and Texas; it hits Rhode Island with floods and storms, and Oregon with acidified seas, and Montana with dying forests. So like it or not, we’re in this together.

You drag America with you to your fate.

I want this future: a Republican Party that has returned to its senses, and is a strong and worthy adversary; in a strong America, that has done right by its people and the world. That’s what I want.

Emphasis, of course, mine.

We can, of course, be offended that he misspoke and called a tornado a cyclone. That’s pretty offensive. Perhaps slightly more seriously, we can consider that if this speech was prepared, it might be referencing at best the tornadoes which struck Sunday night - and almost certainly well in advance of today’s destruction, which at 4:30pm Eastern would have been after he likely delivered the speech.

Of course, you read the echo chamber headlines and it says he blames Republicans for the OK tornadoes.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

239 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 2:04:54am

And though it’s a warm night here at the Guanxi88 compound, and me without ice, I’m quite well loaded, all things considered. And this in spite of the fact that the folks who bottle Old Grandad have decided to release the 1.75 litre size in a paltry 80 proof, as opposed to the commendable, even virtuous, 86 proof of days gone by.

To quote Yeats:

Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold,
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

As I said elsewhere: First we lose the Oxonian comma, then the Russian Army abandons portyanki, and now, this.

240 Amory Blaine  Tue, May 21, 2013 2:09:21am

Scale model of Tokyo.

Youtube Video
241 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 2:21:12am

re: #240 Amory Blaine

I’ll see you, and raise you a Miminashi-Hoichi

Youtube Video
242 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 2:26:04am

Yes, my favorite song, from my favorite Kaidan tale. Somehow, I prefer his re-telling of it, which brings forward an ambiguity - THE ambiguity -of whether Hoichi sings to living men or to ghosts.

And I invoke Faulkner in my support:

“Ah,” Mr Compson said. “Years ago we in the South made our women into ladies. Then the War came and made the ladies into ghosts. So what else can we do, being gentlemen, but listen to them being ghosts?”

If that isn’t the substance of all remembrance, I don’t know what is.

243 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 2:47:39am

Speaking of ladies, I leave you with the best version I’ve yet heard of Dan-no-ura, as performed by Ueda Junko, in France, no less.

I don’t care if you don’t know Japanese - if this doesn’t move you to tears and send chills down your spine, then you’re not alive.

Youtube Video
244 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 3:45:31am

re: #232 Capitalist Tool

Why is he a slimeball? Because he cares about extreme weather killing Americans?

245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 3:48:08am

re: #242 Guanxi88

Compson’s insane, though.

246 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:00:35am

re: #245 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

And what of that? And was he insane? As I read it, he was merely one grown far too wise.

Or do you mean Quentin? At worst, a neurotic.

247 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:20:28am

re: #115 FemNaziBitch

In Detroit in the Catholic School we had to go into the basement. I remember those little yellow and black fallout signs on the walls near the ceilings. Our building was sooo old. We had a unfinished tunnel to the church basement from the school. I think it was mined in the late 1800’s. Solid rock as I remember.

I hated it.

Which Catholic school was that? Gesu?

248 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:36:42am

re: #246 Guanxi88

And what of that? And was he insane? As I read it, he was merely one grown far too wise.

Or do you mean Quentin? At worst, a neurotic.

Oh yeah, I meant Quentin, and no, I don’t think someone with his incredibly fucked-up ideas about women, to the extent that, as part of a bizarre plan, he claims to have committed incest with his sister, is at worst a neurotic.

If you meant Jason, Quentin’s dad, that guy is even worse, especially on the subject of women— he’s basically the whole reason Quentin is fucked up about women. The entire Compson family basically serves as Faulkner’s examination of really, really shitty and screwed up ideas about women in the South.

The whole point of Faulkner is how crazy, suffering, and terrible everyone is.

249 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:42:14am

re: #248 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Perhaps it’s because we came of age in different places, but I don’t see any objection to Faulkner in what you’ve said.

We humans are nothing more than the sum total of our experiences, which must include, of course, the experiences of those who came before us, and so, to that extent, we are, all of us, somewhat crazy, suffering, and terrible. But that’s no objection to Faulkner, any more than it’s an objection to Man as Faulkner sees him

“Man is the sum of his misfortunes….Man the sum of what-have-you,” to quote Jason Faulkner III. If we cannot deal with that, if we cannot come - if not to peace, then at least to terms - to that, then there’s no point in any of it.

250 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:42:16am

Here’s another spectacular fuckbag:

251 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:44:36am

re: #249 Guanxi88

Perhaps it’s because we came of age in different places, but I don’t see any objection to Faulkner in what you’ve said.

What makes you think I’m ‘objecting to Faulkner’? What are you talking about?

I’m pointing out that the specific ideas about womanhood, which is the subject of the quote you gave, is a rather rife one, and that Faulker was— brilliantly— showing the massive terribleness he perceived in the Southern mode of thought on womanhood.

252 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:46:27am

re: #250 Vicious Babushka

I don’t think Coburn is the one who signs off on this though, so he can bitch all he wants about it, right? I think it’s the governor who does the declaration of a disaster, unless I’m missing something.

Which makes him and even bigger sack of crap, just running his mouth to be a contrary colossal asshole.

253 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:47:16am

re: #252 A Mom Anon

He’s talking about blocking a bill to provide funding, in Congress, and he can do that.

254 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 4:50:41am

re: #253 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Spectacular. There are times I wish Karma was instant, this would be one of them. Even better I don’t think he’s running again, so there’s not even a chance he’d pay for this politically down the road.

Honest to god, how do these fucking assholes sleep at night?

255 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:00:27am

I just donated to the American Red Cross.

256 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:06:23am

re: #251 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

We’ll leave aside Faulkner’s judgment on Southern ideals regarding women - there’s sufficient ambiguity there to justify any possible number of interpretations - and ask, instead, whether his narrators (Quentin and his father) were not, perhaps, both correct. That is, leaving aside the current - which means running, which means passing, which means unstable - ideas about them, might not the two of them perhaps indicate some truth that would evade and escape a more ‘enlightened’ view of women? I would suggest they do, and that Quentin, no less than his father, offers insight into not merely whatever may have been the traditional Southern views of women, defective and incomplete though they might have been, but also into the nature of the feminine as such.

Remember, whatever it is we know about the women in Absalom! Absalom! is learned from Quentin and his father.

257 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:07:03am

re: #255 Vicious Babushka

I heart the Red Cross. I’m wondering though(since I’ve been fortunate enough to not have experienced anything this horrible-and really have no clue), what happens beyond what the Red Cross does? Are there groups that come in and help with clean up and salvage efforts? It’s going to take a lot to restore this area and make it livable again, so what happens beyond the FEMA aid, any insurance that might apply and what the Red Cross can do?

We don’t often see the big picture in the months after something huge like this happens. There may be a newspaper article doing some follow up or some minor news coverage, but I don’t think that really gives us the whole story of recovery.

258 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:10:35am

re: #257 A Mom Anon

I heart the Red Cross. I’m wondering though(since I’ve been fortunate enough to not have experienced anything this horrible-and really have no clue), what happens beyond what the Red Cross does? Are there groups that come in and help with clean up and salvage efforts? It’s going to take a lot to restore this area and make it livable again, so what happens beyond the FEMA aid, any insurance that might apply and what the Red Cross can do?

We don’t often see the big picture in the months after something huge like this happens. There may be a newspaper article doing some follow up or some minor news coverage, but I don’t think that really gives us the whole story of recovery.

I have donated to ZAKA in the past (the Israeli rescue & recovery organization) although I do not know if they are sending a team to OK. I just logged on the Red Cross site and made a donation “for greatest need” since the need is so urgent.

259 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:10:50am

re: #256 Guanxi88

There’s really not a lot of ambiguity of the tragic, gothic nature of Faulker, no. He’d laugh pretty hard at the idea of anyone finding the people in his books positive models in any way, shape, or form.

and ask, instead, whether his narrators (Quentin and his father) were not, perhaps, both correct.

No, they both had horrifically fucked up ideas about women that not only hurt themselves and the women in their lives, but— where it intersected with race— started the doom of the family.

That you think that they represent some sort of wisdom about women, rather than an amazing examination of tortured thoughts about women from a culture steeped in rigid misogyny also serving as an allegory for the fall of the South, is kind of fucked up.

You do get that Quentin thought of basically every woman as his sister, right?

Also, there’s not really a ‘feminine’ nature.

260 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:14:49am

re: #259 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

No, I wouldn’t expect you to think there was a feminine nature. As a modern rationalist, it is only to be expected that you would reject the idea of nature.

As for his viewing every woman as his sister, whatever could you find to object to in Quentin’s (admittedly) peculiar attitude? Is not this, albeit in an attenuated and neurotic form, the very sum and substance of that fellow-feeling that makes all Mankind one family?

And as for race - Faulkner, no less than his characters, appears to regard race as little more than a “shibboleth,” to quote Miss Rosa. It’s there, but it’s largely meaningless.

261 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:18:42am

re: #258 Vicious Babushka

I know, I donated yesterday too. I was just wondering what happens in the coming weeks and months, I realized I honestly had no idea.

262 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:19:21am

re: #260 Guanxi88

No, I wouldn’t expect you to think there was a feminine nature. As a modern rationalist, it is only to be expected that you would reject the idea of nature.

I don’t at all, in any way, reject the idea of nature, and I’m not sure I’m a modern rationalist, either.

As for his viewing every woman as his sister, whatever could you find to object to in Quentin’s (admittedly) peculiar attitude? Is not this, albeit in an attenuated and neurotic form, the very sum and substance of that fellow-feeling that makes all Mankind one family?

You’re asking what’s wrong about looking at every woman on earth, including those he has sexual attraction for, as his sister?

And as for race - Faulkner, no less than his characters, appears to regard race as little more than a “shibboleth,” to quote Miss Rosa. It’s there, but it’s largely meaningless.

You have no fucking clue about Faulkner, at all. Compson’s refusal to marry a part-black woman is one of the larger allegorical plot points. The shadow of slavery falls over every book. The ambiguous nature of characters in many books, suspected of having black ancestry, is also a major motivator. Saying that Faulkner or his characters regarded race as nothing more than a meaningless shibboleth is just pants-on-head stupid. Faulkner certainly thinks the racism of his characters and culture is a horrific tragedy, but he explores it at length.

You might as well read the phone book as Faulker if you can read Faulkner and think race isn’t important to him, his stories, or his character.

263 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:20:31am

re: #259 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

That you think that they represent some sort of wisdom about women, rather than an amazing examination of tortured thoughts about women from a culture steeped in rigid misogyny also serving as an allegory for the fall of the South, is kind of fucked up.

That you would presume to attribute misogyny to me is, as you would doubtless say, “kind of fucked up.”

But you’re a barbarian and, therefore a literalist, and therefore incapable of reading, to say nothing of comprehending, anything not in keeping with your own prejudices.

264 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:22:08am

re: #261 A Mom Anon

I know, I donated yesterday too. I was just wondering what happens in the coming weeks and months, I realized I honestly had no idea.

I am sure there are a whole bunch of scams going around, as there always are after a disaster of this magnitude.

I’m almost ashamed to admit it, but what made me break down sobbing last night was not the news that little children died in the school (that was numbing), but watching people stumbling around, in shock, homeless, holding their little dogs and cats in their arms.

265 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:25:32am

re: #263 Guanxi88

That you would presume to attribute misogyny to me is, as you would doubtless say, “kind of fucked up.”
.

I didn’t attribute misogyny to you, though. I said the Southern culture that Faulkner wrote about was steeped in it. Why did you think I was saying it about you?

But you’re a barbarian and, therefore a literalist, and therefore incapable of reading, to say nothing of comprehending, anything not in keeping with your own prejudices.

Faulkner is one of my favorite writes, and seeing you view the awesome and brutally grinding nihilism of the Compson family (espoused by father, fought against but eventually succumbed to by son), especially their almost literally damned views on womanhood, as some sort of model, is one of those gotta-laugh-otherwise-you’d-cry moments. It’s like reading Red Badge of Courage and thinking it’s a pro-war book.

And I’m not only not a literalist, I don’t even think literalism is possible.

266 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:25:43am

re: #262 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

It’s clear that Wikipedia and any number of digests will never serve to explain the texts to you, try though you may to use these make-shifts as replacements for ratiocination.

Sutpen had a black daughter, who was no less a part of his family than any of his children, and who was, in fact, what Mr. Compson called “the presiding augur” of his doom.

Charles Bon - the pointless racialism that informed the tragedy around him was revealed precisely as the empty formality it always was by Henry’s love for him, a love that was strong enough to overcome any objection even to incest.

I’d suggest you re-read, assuming you’ve read them at all, these and other works, and come to appreciate - to the extent that anyone who believes, as you do, in the perfectibility of Man - the fundamental complexity and tragedy of it all.

267 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:28:19am

re: #265 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I thought your use of the second-person singular pronoun “you” was indicative of your intent to address your remarks to me. This was based, true and true enough, on the assumption that you possessed what amounted to a rough familiarity with the conventions of English.

Forgive, please, my presumption.

268 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:31:22am

re: #265 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

And should you be incapable of grasping the soul behind the nihilism of Jason Compson III, a soul that arrived at its position not merely because of the time and place and customs into which it was born, but rather, took those accidents as a distillation (a hyper-distillation, to quote Faulkner, speaking of wistaria) of the human condition, then more’s the pity.

269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:33:38am

re: #266 Guanxi88

It’s clear that Wikipedia and any number of digests will never serve to explain the texts to you, try though you may to use these make-shifts as replacements for ratiocination.

Texts die if they get explained. They need to be read.

Charles Bon - the pointless racialism that informed the tragedy around him was revealed precisely as the empty formality it always was by Henry’s love for him, a love that was strong enough to overcome any objection even to incest.

Henry fucking kills Charles over the matter of race.

I’d suggest you re-read, assuming you’ve read them at all, these and other works, and come to appreciate - to the extent that anyone who believes, as you do, in the perfectibility of Man - the fundamental complexity and tragedy of it all.

I do. This is my point. Faulkner’s books are tragedies. The philosophies characters hold in them are tragic ones, built from tragic situations. The best choices are interrupted by the rigid social structures of the South, which interfere with the actual happiness of the characters. And I don’t believe in the perfectibility of man.

Why do you keep coming up with all these bizarre fantasies about me, and why doesn’t it bug you that they’re all wrong?

270 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:34:39am

re: #264 Vicious Babushka

Yeah, I saw that too. Along with animals wandering about looking for their people. A farmer who lost 100 horses. The scope of the loss is really beyond our immediate comprehension, we’re all going to have that one”thing” that just breaks our hearts when something like this happens.

271 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:38:52am

re: #269 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Yes, Henry kills Charles, and the act itself is fundamentally meaningless, as revealed by all that occurred before or after, and even as Henry learned in New Orleans.

The “philosophies” - to use your term - of his characters are only accidentally derived from the conventions and culture of the age in which they were born. Jason Compson III is Koheleth full of bourbon.

As for bizarre fantasies - excuse them, if you will. They are derived from such observations of your mental phenomena as occasionally trickle through here and there. They’re derived, in most cases, from what I would call your ameliorist attitude - the idea that were we but to fix this or that, then the world would be a better place. This is, as you must know, a modern attitude, and modernity fundamentally rejects the notion of tragedy as arising out of anything other than a misunderstanding or lack of knowledge.

And I’ve yet to be wrong about you, ol’ chum, save, perhaps, in your own estimation.

272 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:41:11am

re: #271 Guanxi88

I kind of think that anybody who can hold up his own end of a discussion of great literature is neither a barbarian or a dumbass.

273 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:42:57am

re: #272 Vicious Babushka

I would agree with half of that.

To quote Wanda from “A Fish Called Wanda,” objecting to Otto’s claim that “apes don’t read philosophy”:

“Yes, they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it.”

Obdi and I go back a ways, and this is all in good fun.

274 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:44:08am

re: #271 Guanxi88

Yes, Henry kills Charles, and the act itself is fundamentally meaningless, as revealed by all that occurred before or after, and even as Henry learned in New Orleans.

What are you talking about? It’s one of the dramatic high points of the novel, whether Henry will let what Sutpen revealed to him ruin his (screwed up) love, and it does, and he kills Charles.

The “philosophies” - to use your term - of his characters are only accidentally derived from the conventions and culture of the age in which they were born. Jason Compson III is Koheleth full of bourbon.

Faulkner’s main theme, at all times, was the South, the society, politics, culture of it. The philosophy— not sure why that word gets a quote— of various characters is very much Faulkner’s demonstration of particularly and specifically the tragically distorted, cramped, and ridiculous Southern culture that constrained and tortured those who lived in it.

As for bizarre fantasies - excuse them, if you will. They are derived from such observations of your mental phenomena as occasionally trickle through here and there.

But they’re all wrong, all the time. Why doesn’t this bug you?

They’re derived, in most cases, from what I would call your ameliorist attitude - the idea that were we but to fix this or that, then the world would be a better place.

If we improve things, things are improved is pretty much A=A.

This is, as you must know, a modern attitude, and modernity fundamentally rejects the notion of tragedy as arising out of anything other than a misunderstanding or lack of knowledge.

You’re using your own private definition of ‘modern’ again, and I don’t reject the nature of tragedy. Tragedy is built into us being human.

And I’ve yet to be wrong about you, ol’ chum, save, perhaps, in your own estimation.

Things you’ve been wrong about in this thread:

1. That I haven’t read Faulkner.
2. That I’m a literalist.
3. That I think all tragedy stems from a misunderstanding or lack of knowledge.
4. That I was calling you mysogynist.
5. That I believe in the perfectibility of man.

None of these are in the least bit true.

You’re having a conversation with someone, but it ain’t me.

275 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:44:48am

re: #273 Guanxi88

Obdi and I go back a ways, and this is all in good fun.

No, it’s not. I actually find the way that you argue really shitty, especially when you do the creepy stuff where you just start making up random crap about me.

276 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:45:14am

LGF: Come for the breaking news and politics, stay for the kitty pics and literature debates. :) Or not,as the case may be…..

277 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:48:13am

re: #276 A Mom Anon

LGF: Come for the breaking news and politics, stay for the kitty pics and literature debates. :)

One of the funnier parts of this conversation is that when I first arrived here, a long-departed dude vituperated for pages about how I was a non-literalist, and how shitty and awful it was of me to deny literal meaning. Ah, Cato, his drunk rages could be kind of funny.

Kind of. More sad.

278 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:51:28am

re: #276 A Mom Anon

LGF: Come for the breaking news and politics, stay for the kitty pics and literature debates. :) Or not,as the case may be…..

And the food discussions. Don’t forget those.

/

279 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:55:19am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. My heart goes out to all those affected by the storms yesterday, including the Moore twister that has killed at least 91 people, with more unaccounted for.

At this point in the day, the SPC hasn’t issued any tornado watches or warnings, but as the day begins to heat up, expect to see more storms break out to the East of where yesterday’s storms occurred. The NWS has, however, issued severe storm watches as well as flood watches and warnings across eastern OK and into AR. T-storm warnings also in effect for northeastern AR.

This is the area I’d be most worried about for new tornadic activity today, especially around the OK/AR border centering around Fort Smith AR and the conditions will be similar to yesterday with the front and temperature conditions. Training rains and heavy downpours will contribute to flood potential as well.

280 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:55:34am

re: #275 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

In your catalogue of errors, you forgot perhaps to include the notions that you’re thin-skinned and object to being objected to.

Let’s go down the list:

1. That you haven’t read Faulkner. Perhaps you have at one time or another permitted your eyes to fall upon the words of the author in question. For doubting that possibility, I do apologize.

2. That you are a literalist. It may well be that this is a forensic stance, adopted as the need arises, and is not, in fact, a mental habit or pre-disposition of yours.

3. That you assume tragedy arises from misunderstanding or lack of knowledge. This assumption is derived from your decidedly modern (by which I mean post-Machiavellian; just to clarify, the definition is not my own, but has sound support) stance toward the human condition, revealed in large measure by an attitude that assigns great importance to the trivial matters of daily politics.

4. That you called me a misogynist. Again, I refer you to my explanation wherein I interpreted your use of the second person singular “you” on the basis of my assumption that you possessing some knowledge of the conventions and usages of our shared language. I went to far in that, it would seem.

5. That you believe in the perfectibility of Man. Again, this is derived from your political stance(s) as revealed here. Were you not to believe in such a thing, you could hardly be anything other than a Traditionalist. (To clarify, I am not accusing you of being a traditionalist; far from it.)

281 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 5:56:51am

re: #277 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Yes, I remember those halcyon days.

As I recall, an off-hand comment of yours about the impossibility of conveying in full one’s meaning sparked that one.

Good times.

282 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:00:15am

re: #280 Guanxi88

Again: None of those things are actually true. Are you capable of accepting this? I don’t believe in the perfectibility of man, for example. I don’t believe in the concept of perfection, I don’t believe that it’s achievable on a societal or personal level. Nothing about the concept in any way resonates with me. You’re simply wrong, and you seem incapable of dealing with this fact. Instead, you’re claiming you can know this through my political stances— I guess that I think any improvement at all is possible?

I think local entropy can be sometimes reduced. That’s about as much as I get on board with the perfectibility of man.

So let’s just take that one. Do you understand that you’re wrong, or are you claiming that, via your psychological powers of TCP/IP, I’m lying about this or so utterly lacking in self-knowledge that I don’t recognize this about myself, that my wife and friends are all likewise deceived?

Name one specific thing I’ve ever said, or done, that leads you to believe I think that man is perfectible. Simply one example.

And do you get why making this shit up about me is creepy?

283 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:01:21am

re: #277 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I’ll be the first to admit I scroll by all this because it’s WAY over my head.

However, I can make a mean lasagna and have a pretty good green thumb AND I know the latin names for most of the plants in my garden and what those words mean.

So there’s that.

284 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:01:49am

re: #281 Guanxi88

Yes, I remember those halcyon days.

As I recall, an off-hand comment of yours about the impossibility of conveying in full one’s meaning sparked that one.

Good times.

Yeah. I said that there’s no literal meaning for “The door opened”, because the phrase doesn’t contain information about the door, or how it was opened, so the reader has to naturally fill in some elements to the scene. It was my denial of literalism; you appear to remember it, and yet still be capable of saying I’m literalist.

How does that work in your brain?

285 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:02:58am

re: #284 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

As I explained above - in literal language - I am prepared to accept the possibility that you insist on literalism as a forensic stance.

You did read that, right? It wasn’t too “creepy” for you, was it?

286 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:03:17am

re: #283 A Mom Anon

I’ll be the first to admit I scroll by all this because it’s WAY over my head.

However, I can make a mean lasagna and have a pretty good green thumb AND I know the latin names for most of the plants in my garden and what those words mean.

So there’s that.

My grandmother, who had among her various degrees one in botany, was always vaguely ashamed I couldn’t learn the Latin names of plants. I suck at semi-arbitrary taxonomy.

Fun fact: boa constrictor is the only organism* whose common name and Latin name are the same in English.

*maybe just the only animal.

287 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:03:25am

re: #277 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

One of the funnier parts of this conversation is that when I first arrived here, a long-departed dude vituperated for pages about how I was a non-literalist, and how shitty and awful it was of me to deny literal meaning. Ah, Cato, his drunk rages could be kind of funny.

Kind of. More sad.

Of those days, I do miss Cato above all the others. Especially sober Cato but …

288 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:03:39am

re: #283 A Mom Anon

I’ll be the first to admit I scroll by all this because it’s WAY over my head.

However, I can make a mean lasagna and have a pretty good green thumb AND I know the latin names for most of the plants in my garden and what those words mean.

So there’s that.

Indeed, I do much the same for some of the philosophical discussions that go on in the wee early hours, usually when I’m dead asleep. Though I imagine much the same happens when I and other gaming lizards begin chattering as to our latest acquisitions or adventures.

289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:04:34am

re: #285 Guanxi88

As I explained above - in literal language - I am prepared to accept the possibility that you insist on literalism as a forensic stance.

I don’t insist on literalism as a forensic stance, either. If you think I do, demonstrate me doing it. I am, in fact, arguing the allegorical nature of Faulkner in this conversation which is, again, opposed to literalism.

So go ahead and demonstrate me doing it.

290 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:05:32am

“I think local entropy can be sometimes reduced. That’s about as much as I get on board with the perfectibility of man.”

Ya hear that, folks?

The fellow’s a conservative.

291 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:06:59am

re: #286 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Fun fact: boa constrictor is the only organism* whose common name and Latin name are the same in English.

*maybe just the only animal.

gorilla gorilla gorilla

292 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:07:34am

re: #289 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Fine, then. You’ll say Faulkner’s writing allegorically, and then go on to attribute misogyny and all manner of shameful attitudes to his characters and their motivations, without, however, considering the possibility that what the author himself thought on these topics is nowhere addressed directly.

That makes a literalist.

293 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:07:54am

re: #291 iossarian

gorilla gorilla gorilla

But we don’t call gorillas gorilla gorilla, we call gorillas gorilla.

294 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:08:13am
295 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:08:46am

re: #293 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

But we don’t call gorillas gorilla gorilla, we call gorillas gorilla.

I do.

I also bend my forearms in and frown when I’m saying it.

gorilla gorilla gorilla

296 Guanxi88  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:08:55am

And, having stirred up my old amigo Obdi, I’m off to pay some bills.

Have fun, lizards, and stay scaly

297 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:10:21am

re: #292 Guanxi88

Fine, then. You’ll say Faulkner’s writing allegorically, and then go on to attribute misogyny and all manner of shameful attitudes to his characters and their motivations, without, however, considering the possibility that what the author himself thought on these topics is nowhere addressed directly.

That makes a literalist.

What do you mean I don’t consider it? It’s the foundation of my view that I’m considering that the author’s thoughts on this are being expressed indirectly through the books.

And how would that make me a literalist, anyway? The characters have misogynistic, racist, and all kind of other shitty viewpoints; what does that have to do with literalism? Faulkner isn’t using those characters to literally espouse those views, but to examine them, narrate them, show how they act upon the characters and others.

298 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:10:34am

re: #296 Guanxi88

And, having stirred up my old amigo Obdi, I’m off to pay some bills.

Have fun, lizards, and stay scaly

You’re not my amigo. I really think badly of you.

299 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:15:55am

re: #295 iossarian

I do.

I also bend my forearms in and frown when I’m saying it.

gorilla gorilla gorilla

What do you say when there are three gorillas? Do you ever get a bulk discount?

300 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:19:06am

re: #270 A Mom Anon

Heartbreaking. So glad to be able to go home and see all my kittie overlords.

301 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:20:47am

re: #300 Bulworth

Speaking of heartbreaking (in a bittersweet, but more sweet than bitter) way:

cbsnews.com

302 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:21:05am

re: #299 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

What do you say when there are three gorillas?

“What the fuck, guys? Those were MY bananas. Buy your own next time.”

303 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:21:34am

Why do I always give into my desire to read political news first thing in the morning? All I do is wind up starting the day with a headache. The derp, it burns!

304 Flounder  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:21:35am

I think my head is going to assplode.

305 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:22:16am

re: #299 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

What do you say when there are three gorillas? Do you ever get a bulk discount?

Puffinus puffinus are cheaper by the dozen. You only need six. ;)

306 Ian G.  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:25:05am

re: #279 lawhawk

At this point in the day, the SPC hasn’t issued any tornado watches or warnings, but as the day begins to heat up, expect to see more storms break out to the East of where yesterday’s storms occurred.

If you look at the convective outlooks page, you’ll see how hairy they expect today to be:

spc.noaa.gov

That red “MDT” blob was right over central Oklahoma yesterday, so it looks like Dallas-Ft. Worth and Shreveport could be under the gun today. I guess the best we can do is hope for a bust, or for any monster tornadoes to stay over rural areas.

Mercifully, OKC doesn’t appear to be under a tornado threat.

307 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:26:11am

Teacher hugs student after tornado hits Briarwood Elementary School

308 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:31:10am
309 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:35:34am

re: #308 Vicious Babushka

Rather remarkable that it’s being revised down rather than up, considering the amount of destruction we’ve seen.

310 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:36:26am

My new favorite phrase is ‘stands to reason’, after hearing a guy in a barbershop attribute to the tornadoes to increased jet travel. When asked why he thought this, he responded “Stands to reason.”

My cats caused the financial crisis. Stands to reason.

311 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:37:43am

re: #310 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

My new favorite phrase is ‘stands to reason’, after hearing a guy in a barbershop attribute to the tornadoes to increases jet travel. When asked why he thought this, he responded “Stands to reason.”

My cats caused the financial crisis. Stands to reason.

Cow farts causing global warming has greater correlation.

312 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:38:19am

re: #310 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

My new favorite phrase is ‘stands to reason’, after hearing a guy in a barbershop attribute to the tornadoes to increased jet travel. When asked why he thought this, he responded “Stands to reason.”

My cats caused the financial crisis. Stands to reason.

The sort of redneck logic that spawned the concept of the “country mile.”

313 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:39:02am

re: #306 Ian G.

They’re still under a t-storm threat that will make the recovery and cleanup even more miserable, but the tornado threat is just to the south and east of OKC for now. I’m expecting the watches and warnings to begin in the next two hours as the convective heat begins churning the atmosphere.

314 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:40:36am
315 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:41:55am

re: #314 lawhawk

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. And I can certainly see such mistakes made in the early hours of any rescue and recovery effort.

316 geoffm33  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:42:04am

re: #310 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

My new favorite phrase is ‘stands to reason’, after hearing a guy in a barbershop attribute to the tornadoes to increased jet travel. When asked why he thought this, he responded “Stands to reason.”

My cats caused the financial crisis. Stands to reason.

When I was younger we used to sit out on my friends 1st floor roof to hang out in the sun/tan/whatever. When I asked why we had to climb out the window, and couldn’t just layout in the back yard he said “the roof is closer to the sun”.

#StandsToReason

317 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:43:11am
318 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:48:39am

I’m sort of glad that something took everybody’s attention away from “scandalmania” for at least a couple days…but I really wish it hadn’t taken a natural disaster of such magnitude as this to do so.

319 kirkspencer  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:54:25am

re: #318 Targetpractice

I’m sort of glad that something took everybody’s attention away from “scandalmania” for at least a couple days…but I really wish it hadn’t taken a natural disaster of such magnitude as this to do so.

Apparently you are not reading the same info sources I’m reading. The scandals are still there, they just aren’t the headline.

OMG Obama knew of the IRS suppression before the reporters were told. TYRANNY.

320 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:57:27am

re: #296 Guanxi88

And, having stirred up my old amigo Obdi, I’m off to pay some bills.

Have fun, lizards, and stay scaly

Who IS this dude? He writes like William Buckley on mescaline.

321 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:57:31am

re: #319 kirkspencer

Apparently you are not reading the same info sources I’m reading. The scandals are still there, they just aren’t the headline.

Yeah, I read that earlier, and managed to fend off the immediate compulsion to ram an icepick into my skull to make the hurting stop. It appears we’re in for 18 months of “Who knew what and when?!”

322 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:59:01am

re: #321 Targetpractice

Yeah, I read that earlier, and managed to find off the immediate compulsion to ram an icepick into my skull to make the hurting stop. It appears we’re in for 18 months of “Who knew what and when?!”

IRS Flew. Obama Knew. Agenda 182.

;p

323 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 6:59:44am

President Obama issues Declaration of Disaster for OK.

Why is Obummer interfering in OK and politicizing national disaster?!11!!???

324 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:00:14am

The current mess with the IRS involves allegations of profiling entities that are TP/conservative in nature. They are some of the loudest advocates of profiling on immigration, border control, and air travel (generally law and order), but when profiling affects them, it’s a completely different tune. Funny how that works.

The deep irony of the IRS scandal is that people on the political right are being subjected to exactly the kind of profiling that they’ve long advocated in fighting terrorism and crime—and they don’t seem to appreciate it. I’m on their side: This case perfectly illustrates why profiling is wrong—why it’s inefficient, ineffective, and morally dubious. The IRS scandal should thus be a lesson to anyone who’s called for any kind of profiling, whether it’s racial, religious, or political. If you believe it was wrong for the government to single out certain groups just because of their names, then you’re really arguing that government officials should look for deeper characteristics when deciding whom to investigate. If you don’t like what happened at the IRS, then, you’re arguing that profiling is bad policy.

The inspector general’s report on the IRS’s targeting of Tea Party groups offers a couple of primary reasons why we should object to profiling. One, it’s unfair—and government officials, the report argues, should make an effort to treat everyone fairly. Profiling Tea Party groups violated this basic tenet: Going after certain groups because of their names “gives the appearance that the IRS is not impartial in conducting its mission,” the report says. Instead, the inspector general argues that the IRS should have looked deeper—not at superficial characteristics like their names, but at “the activities of the organizations and whether they fulfill the requirements of the law.”

This is the moral case against profiling: You should look at the substance rather than the surface—look at what a person does, not what he looks like. And it’s one that conservative pundits find pretty hilarious. Why should we expect the government to apply its resources “fairly” if the world isn’t fair? “It is terribly unfair we can’t find an international terrorist organization that ‘looks like America,’ as they used to say in the Clinton administration,” says Jonah Goldberg. “But the sad truth is the people responsible all happen to be Middle Easterners.” He adds: “You have to be a fool to willingly fish where there are no fish just because you want to be fair to everyone.”

A cynic could make the same argument about the Tea Party. Of the 298 applications for tax-exempt status that were pulled aside for closer review by the IRS, about a third were related to Tea Party groups. More than 200 were unrelated to the Tea Party, which the IRS says is proof that the agency was not being “politically biased” in its selection for further review. But the inspector general disputes that—the report notes that all groups with “Tea Party” or related terms in their names were given closer scrutiny. But why shouldn’t that be the case? A “Tea Party” group is, by definition, interested in politics. If you’re fishing for groups that want to influence elections, wouldn’t that be a pretty good pool to fish? Wouldn’t it have been foolish to look at other groups just to be “fair”?

325 Ian G.  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:00:34am

re: #314 lawhawk

That’s quite a revision, from 91 to 24. I don’t know whether I should feel happy about that, or remember that 24 dead (and counting) is still a lot.

326 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:13:41am

WTF
Any guy that would notice another guy’s hair is, you know, kinda…girly…just sayin’. NTTAWWT

327 geoffm33  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:17:05am

re: #326 Vicious Babushka

328 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:18:36am

re: #324 lawhawk

The current mess with the IRS involves allegations of profiling entities that are TP/conservative in nature. They are some of the loudest advocates of profiling on immigration, border control, and air travel (generally law and order), but when profiling affects them, it’s a completely different tune. Funny how that works.

It’s like I told a wingnut the other day, it’s not that the IRS was engaged in profiling that has the TPers seeing red, it’s who they were profiling. If the IRS had been going after liberal groups instead, all the wingnuts calling this a scandal would be laughing their asses off and rationalizing the IRS going after liberal organizations.

329 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:19:04am
330 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:21:43am

Max Baucus has momentary lapse of sanity, says something folks on both sides of the aisle should agree on if they’re serious about the IRS being impartial:

Baucus: Reform Tax Laws So Political Groups Can’t Pose As Social Welfare Groups

At a hearing Tuesday, Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) declared that after the “smoke of the [IRS] controversy clears,” Congress must reform tax laws for political groups that seek tax-exempt status by masquerading as social welfare organizations.

“It allows them to engage in political activity while keeping the identity of their donors secret,” he said.

“We need to examine the root of this issue and reform the vague 501(c)(4) tax laws. Neither the tax code or complex regulations that govern non-profits provide clear standards for how much activity a group can undertake. The code does not even provide a clear definition of what quallfies as political activity.”

331 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:24:28am

DERP. FAIL.

332 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:25:25am

Senator Rand Paul would like to build Bangladeshian sweatshops in Kentucky, to “let profits come home.”

333 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:25:40am

re: #331 Vicious Babushka

DERP. FAIL.

“Today we could act like we’re not trying to further fuck the poor so as to enrich our campaign donors, but we won’t (because we don’t have the votes).”

334 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:27:20am

Seriously, “Lowering the Corporate Income Tax” is a priority for this clown right now?

“Bet you didn’t know Abe Lincoln was a Republican, black kids!”

335 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:28:58am


336 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:30:38am

JESUS WEEPS FOR THIS FOOL

337 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:31:17am

DERP

338 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:33:52am

re: #337 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Exploiting foreign labor to make billions, then whining that there’s so much money sitting overseas that can’t be brought home because taxes are too high, even though the intended destination for that money is investors and shareholders bank accounts? What’s “good” about that?

339 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:34:06am

re: #317 Vicious Babushka

You can see it upthread on #232.

Yeah, I get that people feel that some guy is blaming their lifestyle for something that happens every year.

Sure, it’s hectoring, but it’s no worse than Coburn asking for an offset on disaster funding because Oklahoma only has a $30 Million dollar emergency fund for a state routinely hit by tornados.

340 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:38:02am

Dead Zone: The Source of the Gulf of Mexico’s Hypoxia

This year, a large dead zone again threatens the Gulf of Mexico.

Every summer for the past several decades, a large dead zone has threatened the economic and ecological health of the Gulf of Mexico, the nation’s largest and most productive fishery.

This dead zone occurs because of excessive nutrients entering the rivers, lakes, and estuaries that feed into or make up the Gulf of Mexico. Nitrogen and phosphorus are essential nutrients for plant growth, but too much of them can stimulate algal growth. And as algae die, they sink to the bottom of the water and decompose, all the while robbing the water body of the oxygen needed for aquatic life to thrive.

The result? Oxygen levels can drop too low to support most life in bottom and near bottom waters, creating a hypoxic or dead zone.

The size of each year’s hypoxic zone is primarily determined by the amount of nutrients flowing from the Mississippi-Atchafalaya River Basin into the northern Gulf of Mexico - particularly the nutrient flow during April and May. Agricultural inputs are the largest source of these nutrients, though inputs from atmospheric deposition, urban areas, and wastewater treatment plants also contribute.

341 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:39:38am

Seriously, I want Obama or Congressional Democrats to put a bill on the table that says that overseas profits may be brought home at 5%…but only if the money goes straight into expansion/improvements that generate jobs. No paying dividends, no paying obscene bonuses to execs, no political campaign dollars. You want that money back, it will go to your workers, not you.

342 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:40:47am

re: #331 Vicious Babushka

Great, as if we need to stack the system in such a way that companies like Apple horde even more capital than they already have. Apple has cash reserves of $150 Billion, and the most useful thing they could think of doing with that money was a convoluted stock buyback.

343 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:46:36am

re: #326 Vicious Babushka

Couldn’t have anything at all to do with having to deal with the assholes Bryan worships in Congress now could it? Or maybe there’s a bit more to the job of being President than lamely tweeting and judging people all damn day. Perhaps…..

I hope Bryan gets a nasty rash on his ass that won’t go away with a little hydrocortisone cream.

344 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:47:48am

It’s the natural endgame which, again, anyone with a brain has always predicted. Large companies hold their profits offshore until they can pressure Congress into lowering the repatriation rate.

Congress, desperate for scraps, will probably come to some agreement.

Who loses? The general public of course. Cuts to public education etc. continue.

Fuck Apple.

345 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:48:21am

re: #338 Targetpractice

Exploiting foreign labor to make billions, then whining that there’s so much money sitting overseas that can’t be brought home because taxes are too high, even though the intended destination for that money is investors and shareholders bank accounts? What’s “good” about that?

They used cheap labor to produce their products, ostensibly to sell them at more competitive prices. (Although I contend Apple products are priced at least 10% higher than comparable products just because they have the Apple cachet.) From a business standpoint, that’s entirely reasonable. We could argue that such a labor policy is not beneficial to the American workforce, however.

Apple also played the dummy offshore subsidiary shell game, wherein they shuffled funds among several dummy corporations to avoid paying taxes, not only in the USA but several other jurisdictions as well. That also makes good business sense, but is highly unethical. Apple was supposed to be the “alternative, good vibes” technology company. You know, “think different.” Turns out their tax attorneys thought the same way as all the other corporate lawyers — avoid paying taxes at all costs.

Despite what Sen. Rand Paul says, Apple has some ‘splaining to do in Washington.

346 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:48:33am

re: #343 A Mom Anon

Couldn’t have anything at all to do with having to deal with the assholes Bryan worships in Congress now could it? Or maybe there’s a bit more to the job of being President than lamely tweeting and judging people all damn day. Perhaps…..

I hope Bryan gets a nasty rash on his ass that won’t go away with a little hydrocortisone cream.

Bryan has not posted ANY Tweets asking for donations or even prayers for Tornado victims. He just goes from his usual Gay and Muslim bashing to one Tweet about “Global cooling” then back to Muslim bashing without skipping a beat.

He is a horrible, horrible shitbag.

347 Ian G.  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:48:34am

re: #337 Vicious Babushka

Yes, I’d say that GM is a good business (or better than Apple) in that it employs tens of thousands of Americans at good wages and makes utilitarian vehicles that ordinary Americans need for their daily lives.

Apple employed tens of thousands in virtual prison camps in China (where they commit suicide regularly) where they make overpriced toys for rich people.

Oh, and in the past year, GM’s stock is up over 50%, while Apple’s is down over 20% (and almost 40% down from the peak).

The only universe in which Apple is a “better” company than GM right now is the one in which companies employing union labor in the uS are “bad” and those employing sweatshop labor overseas are “good”.

348 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:49:40am
Today we could vote to lower the corporate income tax but we won’t.

Dear Senator Paul: F0ck You

349 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:50:26am

re: #347 Ian G.

Wingnuts sure do hates them some American car companies.

350 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:52:04am
Bryan has not posted ANY Tweets asking for donations or even prayers for Tornado victims.

Well, to be fair, some of those tornado victims might be teh gay, not True Christians, or maybe even librools.

//

351 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:53:02am

re: #349 Bulworth

Wingnuts sure do hates them some American car companies.

YOONYUNZ!!11!!

THE NERVE of those companies paying their workers enough to be able to afford their product!

352 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:53:09am

re: #347 Ian G.

A quibble: Suicides in Apple’s China factories do not happen on a “regular” basis, to the best of my knowledge. Don’t extrapolate from a small data set — isolated news reports — to draw such conclusions.

No argument that conditions in Chinese factories are abysmal, however. For a “People’s Republic,” China sucks for workers.

353 Skip Intro  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:55:53am

re: #342 dragonath

Great, as if we need to stack the system in such a way that companies like Apple horde even more capital than they already have. Apple has cash reserves of $150 Billion, and the most useful thing they could think of doing with that money was a convoluted stock buyback.

For which they borrowed $45 billion (a tax deductible business expense) so they wouldn’t have to pay taxes on bringing cash from their shell companies back into the US.

354 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 7:55:58am
355 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:00:11am

There is a Derpfest going on today as wingnuts spew the firehose of rage at Lizz Winstead and Senator Whitehouse, while totally ignoring Erick Erickson.

356 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:01:15am

Lizz Winstead has apologized, and Sen. Whitehouse didn’t even do anything wrong, he just talked about (ZOMG!!11!!) TEH GLOBAL WARMING

357 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:02:20am

re: #355 Vicious Babushka

Hey ericksonoferick was just asking questions!!!111!!1

358 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:04:16am

I’m curious about the effects of global warming and tornadoes. I can see it causing bigger storms and higher energy potential, but are we headed towards shorter, but more intense tornado seasons?

359 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:08:07am

re: #356 Vicious Babushka

I could be wrong about this but I think Winstead and Sen. Whitehouse’s remarks were made before the tornado actually hit. Erickson can’t say the same. And actually Senator Whitehouse didn’t say a damned thing that wasn’t true and based on science and actual events.

360 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:10:17am

re: #354 Vicious Babushka

Paul has said there is a role for the National Guard to restore order after disasters such as the tornadoes as well as to provide emergency food and shelter. He has also suggested that private aid such as from the Red Cross and the Salvation Army has proven to be much more effective than any attempts at assistance from the federal government. Paul has also made the suggestion that people living in parts of the country prone to tornadoes should carry private insurance if it is available.

So he believes the National Guard, which is federally funded, should be in charge of restoring order and helping the victims. And the Red Cross, which to this day still has the stink of its handling of donations to 9/11 funds and Katrina relief wafting from it, is more effective at providing assistance to the victims. And he’s convinced that private insurance companies won’t, in the wake of such disaster, find ways to either refuse to pay out or will drag out such payments to cushion the blow to themselves.

I’m not sure why I expected anything different from a man who seems to think Atlas Shrugged is a book in the Bible.

361 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:12:29am

It’s been pretty eye opening to see Apple fanboys defend everything from child labor to unsafe working standards to tax avoidance in one year.

Shut up and take my money!

362 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:13:17am

re: #359 A Mom Anon

I think Winstead and Sen. Whitehouse’s remarks were made before the tornado actually hit

Her comment was in the present tense

This tornado is in Oklahoma so clearly it has been ordered to only target conservatives.

looks as if she’s removed it
twitter.com “because people in Oklahoma asked” her too

363 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:13:23am

re: #358 dragonath

My husband just came back from a fishing trip in the GulfI(a friend of his has a boat and lives in Bradenton) . Second week of May and the water temp was in the 80s. All that warm, moist air keeps circulating for longer periods without cooling off, it’s bound to have an effect. I’ve been to the Gulf in the spring time many times and the water was too cold to swim comfortably, now it’s like it is in July and August.

You also couldn’t pay me to eat anything that comes out of the Gulf now, but that’s another issue.

364 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:14:30am

re: #360 Targetpractice

So he believes the National Guard, which is federally funded, should be in charge of restoring order and helping the victims. And the Red Cross, which to this day still has the stink of its handling of donations to 9/11 funds and Katrina relief wafting from it, is more effective at providing assistance to the victims. And he’s convinced that private insurance companies won’t, in the wake of such disaster, find ways to either refuse to pay out or will drag out such payments to cushion the blow to themselves.

I’m not sure why I expected anything different from a man who seems to think Atlas Shrugged is a book in the Bible.

Tornadoes happen in Kentucky, too. I wonder if Paul will sing the same song if his own state gets clobbered. And if he does, will he suffer any political consequences from it?

365 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:14:31am

Reports coming now from county coroner that some of the victims may have been counted twice and that the death total may be revised downward… a ray of hope.

366 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:14:42am

re: #326 Vicious Babushka

Nurse! Mr. Fischer is tweeting again!

/

367 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:14:49am

Oklahoma Humane Society if that video of the woman finding her lost dog made you cry.

368 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:16:42am

re: #362 sattv4u2

I thought the remarks were time stamped before the storm hit Moore. But I may be wrong.

How much rain did you guys get over the weekend? Hall county got slammed.

369 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:17:05am

re: #364 wheat-dogghazi

Tornadoes happen in Kentucky, too. I wonder if Paul will sing the same song if his own state gets clobbered. And if he does, will he suffer any political consequences from it?

Yes and no.

370 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:17:06am

nevermind- reported here, already.

371 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:18:28am

re: #368 A Mom Anon

I thought the remarks were time stamped before the storm hit Moore. But I may be wrong.

How much rain did you guys get over the weekend? Hall county got slammed.

Not too much

Sunday morning we got one huge thunder/ lightning storm with torrential rain that lasted for only about half an hour. the rest of the day just some sprinkles here and there

372 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:21:01am

Wingnuts think they’re helping


Red Cross, first responders are telling people to STAY AWAY from the affected areas, that they will just get in the way, and Red Cross needs cash, not water bottles.

Reminds me of Mitt Romney loading a case of water bottles into an SUV for Hurricane Sandy.

373 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:21:44am

24 confirmed fatalities… hope that terrible figure goes no higher.

374 122 Year Old Obama  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:22:19am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts think they’re helping


Red Cross, first responders are telling people to STAY AWAY from the affected areas, that they will just get in the way, and Red Cross needs cash, not water bottles.

Reminds me of Mitt Romney loading a case of water bottles into an SUV for Hurricane Sandy.

They’re like children, deliberately doing what they’re told not to do.

375 erik_t  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:22:34am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

Red Cross, first responders are telling people to STAY AWAY from the affected areas, that they will just get in the way, and Red Cross needs cash, not water bottles.

Reminds me of Mitt Romney loading a case of water bottles into an SUV for Hurricane Sandy.

As usual, Magical Self-Reliant Prepper thinking at work. Large organizations handle large problems better than a mass of confused individuals. Film at eleven since the beginning of civilization.

376 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:22:43am

re: #371 sattv4u2

My rain gauge topped out at around 4 inches before the day was done. I’m SO glad we dug some new drainage in the yard so it runs off better.

377 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:23:53am

re: #372 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts think they’re helping


Red Cross, first responders are telling people to STAY AWAY from the affected areas, that they will just get in the way, and Red Cross needs cash, not water bottles.

Reminds me of Mitt Romney loading a case of water bottles into an SUV for Hurricane Sandy.

And when they get there, they’ll of course gripe that their “goodwill” is being crowded out by federal assistance and that it’s making people “dependent” on the government.

378 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:23:59am

Remember this?

379 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:24:24am

re: #377 Targetpractice

And when they get there, they’ll of course gripe that their “goodwill” is being crowded out by federal assistance and that it’s making people “dependent” on the government.

380 erik_t  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:25:05am

re: #379 Vicious Babushka

Jesus goddamn dipshitslapping Christ.

381 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:25:19am

re: #376 A Mom Anon

My rain gauge topped out at around 4 inches before the day was done. I’m SO glad we dug some new drainage in the yard so it runs off better.

:)

We tend to get a LOT less of these storms here in the most southeastern corner of Gwinnett than the rest of the counties around Atlanta do

382 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:26:17am

re: #378 Vicious Babushka

Remember this?

The food that the Red Cross took one look at and then asked him what in the fuck he was thinking, providing them with that shit when their own pantries were still full?

383 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:27:01am

re: #379 Vicious Babushka

Finally, someone who wants us all to return to the time-honored principles of the year 1791.

//

384 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:27:55am

re: #383 Bulworth

Finally, someone who wants us all to return to the time-honored principles of the year 1791.

//

385 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:28:53am

re: #377 Targetpractice

It’s not about helping with these fools. It’s about looking good and then bitching when they get turned away or told they’re adding to the chaos. If I were going to the trouble to load up a truck with stuff I think I’d first try to find out what was needed and where to take the truck once I got there.

386 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:29:01am

re: #384 Vicious Babushka

Trollers be trollin’.

387 122 Year Old Obama  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:29:17am

re: #384 Vicious Babushka

Sick and disgusting.

388 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:29:36am

Of the 24 fatalities, reportedly,9 were children.

389 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:29:46am

FEMA is not a first responder. They provide reconstruction relief and restore the infrastructure.

390 Ian G.  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:29:54am

re: #379 Vicious Babushka

Not a parody account?

I often marvel at the breadth of intellectual ability that homo sapiens is capable of. On one side, we discovered quantum physics. On the other, we created “Spirit of 1791”.

391 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:30:22am
392 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:30:30am

re: #385 A Mom Anon

It’s not about helping with these fools. It’s about looking good and then bitching when they get turned away or told they’re adding to the chaos. If I were going to the trouble to load up a truck with stuff I think I’d first try to find out what was needed and where to take the truck once I got there.

True, but that cuts against their “Rugged Individualist” ideal, which is that any help is good help, even if they’re aiding people who should have evacuated from dangerous conditions because “It’s the Christian thing to do.”

393 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:32:33am

re: #392 Targetpractice

True, but that cuts against their “Rugged Individualist” ideal, which is that any help is good help, even if they’re aiding people who should have evacuated from dangerous conditions because “It’s the Christian thing to do.”

words fail me

394 Bulworth  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:32:42am

re: #391 Vicious Babushka

Why isn’t bullying, spitting, cursing 4yr old in prison?

///

395 Joanne  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:32:44am

re: #308 Vicious Babushka

Breaking News Storm ✔ @breakingstorm

Death toll from Oklahoma tornado revised down to at least 24 by medical examiner’s office - @Reuters, @AP

Someone needs to remind me why I bother getting CNN Breaking News. Are they ever right about anything anymore?

396 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:32:47am

re: #385 A Mom Anon

It’s not about helping with these fools. It’s about looking good and then bitching when they get turned away or told they’re adding to the chaos. If I were going to the trouble to load up a truck with stuff I think I’d first try to find out what was needed and where to take the truck once I got there.

The purpose of loading up the truck was to post for photo ops, not to actually provide any relief to storm victims.

397 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:34:33am

re: #392 Targetpractice

True, but that cuts against their “Rugged Individualist” ideal, which is that any help is good help, even if they’re aiding people who should have evacuated from dangerous conditions because “It’s the Christian thing to do.”

Why back in the olden days, the whole town would come out for a barn-raisin’!

Of course today you have a bunch of people who don’t know jack shit about buildin’ a barn and just mill around uselessly and get in the way of the professionals.

398 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:34:39am

re: #381 sattv4u2

I noticed,lol. We get the rain, but we’re kind of surrounded on three sides by what passes for mountains in this area, so the bigger windier stuff seems to either go over us or gets some of the force taken out of it by the hills/mountains.

399 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:35:08am

re: #396 Vicious Babushka

The purpose of loading up the truck was to post for photo ops, not to actually provide any relief to storm victims.

In one of those great ironies, it’s the wingnut engaging in “feel good” behavior, without any real plan or goal, because they feel they must “do something.”

400 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:35:38am

re: #385 A Mom Anon

It’s not about helping with these fools. It’s about looking good and then bitching when they get turned away or told they’re adding to the chaos. If I were going to the trouble to load up a truck with stuff I think I’d first try to find out what was needed and where to take the truck once I got there.

But THEY know better than any namby pamby emergency experts. Of course.
//

401 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:36:31am

re: #384 Vicious Babushka

FEMA is still going to be blamed by uneducated people with an agenda anyway. By the way, “Mercury One” is affiliated with Glenn Beck.

402 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:36:49am

re: #398 A Mom Anon

I noticed,lol. We get the rain, but we’re kind of surrounded on three sides by what passes for mountains in this area, so the bigger windier stuff seems to either go over us or gets some of the force taken out of it by the hills/mountains.

Yup And by the time it gets down to us it’s pretty much peetered out

403 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:37:34am

I haven’t dug deeply enough yet, but has the outcry begun about Obama not using HAARP to generate a good storm to disarm the bad storm in a timely manner?
///

404 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:37:52am

re: #401 dragonath

FEMA is still going to be blamed by uneducated people with an agenda anyway. By the way, “Mercury One” is affiliated with Glenn Beck.

Yep, The Grim Weeper himself loaded up a truck with blankets n shit and drove straight into “Ground Zero” (after government backhoes cleared the roads)

405 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:39:01am

re: #404 Vicious Babushka

Beck is in OK right now? Good god what a freaking vulture.

406 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:39:18am

re: #391 Vicious Babushka

Fischer gets his Bible wrong, as usual. Duteronomy 21 does call for stoning disobedient sons to death, but doesn’t say anything about hitting them with spoons.

407 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:40:11am

re: #405 A Mom Anon

Beck is in OK right now? Good god what a freaking vulture.

408 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:43:39am

re: #374 122 Year Old Obama

They’re like children, deliberately doing what they’re told not to do.

Just following the leader:

By the way, this is Earth Day, ladies and gentlemen. Well, what am I going to do for Earth Day? I’m going to have every one of my cars driven as much as possible today. I’ve got my airplane flying to Los Angeles and back. Let’s see, all the lights are going to be on, the air-conditioning down to 68 degrees in four of the five houses.

409 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:44:32am

I thought Beck was beyond mere altruism, or am I getting my libertarians mixed up?

410 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:46:38am

re: #407 Vicious Babushka

And so the Cryin’ Man demonstrates what I was saying, namely that this is aid going to folks who should be evacuated, not kept in place without working facilities. What, does he think a few bottles of water and a Porta-John will take the place of running water?

411 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:47:04am

re: #409 dragonath

I thought Beck was beyond mere altruism, or am I getting my libertarians mixed up?

My assumption is that he’s going there to publicly cry, pretend to “pray”, and yell at the sky.

412 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:49:46am

re: #410 Targetpractice

And so the Cryin’ Man demonstrates what I was saying, namely that this is aid going to folks who should be evacuated, not kept in place without working facilities. What, does he think a few bottles of water and a Porta-John will take the place of running water?

It’s like a giant Carnival Cruise ship, just on land!

413 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:49:51am

Glen Kessler further makes a fool of himself, buying into the “bad note-taking” excuse for Jon Karl screwing the pooch.

WaPo Fact Checker: 3 Pinocchios For Claim Of ‘Doctored’ Benghazi Emails

414 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:53:42am

re: #394 Bulworth

Why isn’t bullying, spitting, cursing 4yr old in prison?

///

Bullying, spitting, cursing 4 yr old should have stood her ground and shot mom in face.

415 BongCrodny  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:55:42am

re: #413 Targetpractice

Glen Kessler further makes a fool of himself, buying into the “bad note-taking” excuse for Jon Karl screwing the pooch.

WaPo Fact Checker: 3 Pinocchios For Claim Of ‘Doctored’ Benghazi Emails

Read several of the comments to the Kessler “analysis.”

Holy cow, but there are a shitload of wingnuts flocking to the Post these days.

416 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:57:06am

Bryan, eat the bag of dicks that has been digested by Erick Erickson.

417 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 8:58:24am

re: #413 Targetpractice

Glen Kessler further makes a fool of himself, buying into the “bad note-taking” excuse for Jon Karl screwing the pooch.

WaPo Fact Checker: 3 Pinocchios For Claim Of ‘Doctored’ Benghazi Emails

418 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:00:21am

re: #410 Targetpractice

I do understand the wanting to help part, people need everything at this point.Hell, my first thought is to load up the car and just go and help, I also know I’d probably be in the way, so instead I donate money if I can. Donating things may come later. But the damned grandstanding and the “look at me” part is what stinks. You just do the shit, and do it right without thinking you’re owed a thank you or to show up the government. Make some calls, ask the mayor of the town or the governor what would actually be helpful, not swing in like freaking Tarzan trying to be a hero. Moore, OK is already overrun with media and there are people who are probably still in shock wandering around trying to salvage any little bit of their lives they can find.

419 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:02:33am

This is ridiculous

Do you think the people in Oklahoma and the Red Cross stationed there give one rats ass whether the bottled water, canned goods, blankets and clothes are coming from Glen Beck or Anderson Cooper? From Maine or California? From a Catholic Church in Mississippi or a Synagog in New York State or a Mosque in Dearborn Michigan??

{sigh}

420 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:03:58am

re: #419 sattv4u2

This is ridiculous

Do you think the people in Oklahoma and the Red Cross stationed there give one rats ass whether the bottled water, canned goods, blankets and clothes are coming from Glen Beck or Anderson Cooper? From Maine or California? From a Catholic Church in Mississippi or a Synagog in New York State or a Mosque in Dearborn Michigan??

{sigh}

No, but they might care about being used as backdrop for somebody’s self-promotional tour, when a donation to the Red Cross would go much farther, and never be in the way.

421 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:04:50am

**sigh**

422 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:05:56am

re: #420 wrenchwench

No, but they might care about being used as backdrop for somebody’s self-promotional tour, when a donation to the Red Cross would go much farther, and never be in the way.

So how many truckloads of stuff did ABC bring,,, CBS,,, CNN,,, THEY all use Moore as a “backdrop”, for ratings !

423 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:06:03am

*eyeroll*

424 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:06:07am

re: #420 wrenchwench

No, but they might care about being used as backdrop for somebody’s self-promotional tour, when a donation to the Red Cross would go much farther, and never be in the way.

And the strutting around and WHERE IS FEMA!!11 I’M HERE BUT WHERE IS FEMA!!11!

Idiots do not understand that FEMA is not a First Responder and provides assistance in REBUILDING.

425 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:07:16am

re: #422 sattv4u2

So how many truckloads of stuff did ABC bring,,, CBS,,, CNN,,, THEY all use Moore as a “backdrop”, for ratings !

Yep. I hate that. There’s a better way, but it would not be as profitable, so we will never see it.

426 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:07:29am

re: #422 sattv4u2

So how many truckloads of stuff did ABC bring,,, CBS,,, CNN,,, THEY all use Moore as a “backdrop”, for ratings !

They shouldn’t be bringing truckloads of shit in.

427 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:07:31am

re: #419 sattv4u2

This is ridiculous

Do you think the people in Oklahoma and the Red Cross stationed there give one rats ass whether the bottled water, canned goods, blankets and clothes are coming from Glen Beck or Anderson Cooper? From Maine or California? From a Catholic Church in Mississippi or a Synagog in New York State or a Mosque in Dearborn Michigan??

{sigh}

I’m sure they give a rats ass when they’re trying to help people and self-promotional dipshits drive several truckloads of supplies right past them and into Ground Zero.

428 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:08:14am

re: #336 Vicious Babushka

Science is suspended in amber according to Fischer. We just have to ignore nearly 40 years of facts and refining theories about climate change and global warming.

429 blueraven  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:08:37am

re: #422 sattv4u2

So how many truckloads of stuff did ABC bring,,, CBS,,, CNN,,, THEY all use Moore as a “backdrop”, for ratings !

seriously?

430 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:08:43am

re: #427 Targetpractice

I’m sure they give a rats ass when they’re trying to help people and self-promotional dipshits drive several truckloads of supplies right past them and into Ground Zero.

From VB’s #407

Trucks being off loaded by volunteers at 1st baptist church.

Doesn’t look like a “drive by” to me

431 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:08:45am

re: #419 sattv4u2

No, they don’t. But, when the people running the show in OK ask people NOT to just show up because it adds to the chaos, then yeah, it’s probably not the best idea. There are groups that do this stuff and have the experience, like the Red Cross, and even the Southern Baptist Mission Group that are pros at this stuff. The roads need to stay clear of traffic, there’s places people have been evacuated to and other logistics that have to be part of a plan. It’s not as simple as just loading a truck with stuff and showing up.

432 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:09:34am

re: #430 sattv4u2

From VB’s #407

Trucks being off loaded by volunteers at 1st baptist church.

Doesn’t look like a “drive by” to me

Do you see “Red Cross” anywhere between “by” and “volunteers”?

433 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:10:17am

re: #430 sattv4u2

From VB’s #407

Trucks being off loaded by volunteers at 1st baptist church.

Doesn’t look like a “drive by” to me

Who cleared the roads for them? Also did you miss this part:

…No running water

434 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:11:02am

re: #433 Vicious Babushka

Who cleared the roads for them? Also did you miss this part:


No running water

Hence,, the need for LOTS of bottled ,, ASAP

By any means necessary!

435 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:11:15am

A little Sattornado touched down in this thread.

436 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:11:32am

re: #434 sattv4u2


No running water

Hence,, the need for LOTS of bottled ,, ASAP

By any means necessary!

But Glenn needs to take a shower!

437 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:12:09am

re: #435 BigPapa

A little Sattornado touched down in this thread.

Yeah
Heaven forbid someone here isn’t on the same page!!
BLASPHEMY!!

438 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:12:45am

re: #364 wheat-dogghazi

Tornadoes happen in Kentucky, too. I wonder if Paul will sing the same song if his own state gets clobbered. And if he does, will he suffer any political consequences from it?

He might not have to wait too long - the front that battered OKC and Moore, is going to be moving east in the next 48 hours.

But for the moment, the tornado watches are going up all over Texas.

439 Joanne  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:13:23am

re: #415 BongCrodny

Read several of the comments to the Kessler “analysis.”

Holy cow, but there are a shitload of wingnuts flocking to the Post these days.

I think that is the point; a feature not a bug.

440 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:13:44am

re: #434 sattv4u2


No running water

Hence,, the need for LOTS of bottled ,, ASAP

By any means necessary!

Including self-righteous douchebags rolling up and dropping off crates of it at the church’s door, as if the people there have the first clue how to distribute it to ensure that the supplies aren’t being handed off to people who don’t need them.

441 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:14:05am

You want to type about this, type here

redcross.org

donate.salvationarmyusa.org

442 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:14:18am

re: #434 sattv4u2

Satt, logistics are hard. Pretending not to understand this is stupid.

443 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:16:00am

We’ve had an unusually cold spring, here in OKC. We had several frostsd up until May 6th (i think), which is past the normal date of last frost/planting date of April 15th. my garden is off to as slooow start…
The greater the difference in air temps between air masses, the worse the storm.

444 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:16:26am

re: #440 Targetpractice

Including self-righteous douchebags rolling up and dropping off crates of it at the church’s door, as if the people there have the first clue how to distribute it to ensure that the supplies aren’t being handed off to people who don’t need them.

Before the little wagon train can roll into town, GOVERNMENT BACKHOES had to clear the roads of debris. Or did the Grim Weeper bring his own heavy equipment?

445 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:16:49am

re: #442 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Satt, logistics are hard. Pretending not to understand this is stupid.

People are getting in (like the Red Cross)

There are places those people use for staging

Those are the places these trucks are being directed to

446 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:18:38am

re: #441 sattv4u2

Already donated yesterday. Seriously, do you think Beck isn’t going to use this as more anti-Obamathegovernmentisevilandwantstokillyou fodder? I give him less than 24 hrs before it starts. It’s who he is and what he does.

447 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:18:56am

littlegreenfootballs.com

wow ,, a downding for directing people to donate!!

122 Year Old Obama,,,, BITEME

448 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:19:15am

re: #445 sattv4u2

People are getting in (like the Red Cross)

There are places those people use for staging

Those are the places these trucks are being directed to

Yeah, and all that is complicated, and people shouldn’t just load shit up and drive out there. Those that are doing so are fucking up.

449 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:19:39am

re: #447 sattv4u2

That downding is for whining about downdings. The previous one I gave you is for being obtuse as usual.

450 122 Year Old Obama  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:20:10am

re: #447 sattv4u2

Mature.

451 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:20:12am

re: #447 sattv4u2

littlegreenfootballs.com

wow ,, a downding for directing people to donate!!

122 Year Old Obama,,,, BITEME

Was that before or after you changed it from the Salvation Army to the Red Cross?

452 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:20:31am

re: #445 sattv4u2

People are getting in (like the Red Cross)

There are places those people use for staging

Those are the places these trucks are being directed to

And you know this as fact, rather than conjecture?

453 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:20:34am

re: #446 A Mom Anon

Already donated yesterday. Seriously, do you think Beck isn’t going to use this as more anti-Obamathegovernmentisevilandwantstokillyou fodder? I give him less than 24 hrs before it starts. It’s who he is and what he does.

Of course he is

And again, do you think the people of Moore give one rats ass about that today? Do you think they care that the other news orgs are using them as a “back drop” for ratings, knowing that it will bring more attention and donations to them?

NO

454 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:21:24am

re: #434 sattv4u2


No running water

Hence,, the need for LOTS of bottled ,, ASAP

By any means necessary!

The best means is water tankers pulled by National Guard trucks and manned by _Trained & Disciplined_ individuals. Not piss-ant bottles of water that simply make yet more trash to be hauled away. Beck should be slapped & told to leave. If he should chose not to, I’m sure a functioning jail cell can be found.

455 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:21:25am

re: #445 sattv4u2

People are getting in (like the Red Cross)

There are places those people use for staging

Those are the places these trucks are being directed to

Did it not even occur to you that just because the Red Cross (and other professionals) are being directed to the staging areas, that maybe THEY KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE DOING whereas just random Glenn Beck fans are not trained in disaster response.

STAY. THE. FUCK. OUT. OF. THE. WAY. OF. THE. PROFESSIONALS.

456 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:22:01am

re: #453 sattv4u2

After hurricane Sandy, there were a lot of people pissed off at the media exploitation of them, yeah. I met them.

Whatever asshole interviewed a crying 6 year old should leave journalism forever.

457 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:22:37am

re: #451 wrenchwench

Was that before or after you changed it from the Salvation Army to the Red Cross?

I meant to have both there

Fixed ,, thanks

458 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:24:55am

For better or for worse, the media’s presence is allowing the country (and the world) see firsthand the destruction and in turn hopefully tug on everyone’s heartstrings into donating money, supplies, blood, etc.

459 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:25:19am

Another line of T-storms with hail, heavy rain and damaging winds projected moving into the metro area within the hour… that will hamper rescue/recovery efforts.

460 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:25:20am

re: #456 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

After hurricane Sandy, there were a lot of people pissed off at the media exploitation of them, yeah. I met them.

Whatever asshole interviewed a crying 6 year old should leave journalism forever.

And after Hurricane Issac people on the Gulf coast were thankful about the media. Yeah, I met them

461 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:25:27am

re: #453 sattv4u2

Honestly, I bet they do care that they’re being used for ratings. IMO, the national media should just be relying on the local media feeds. KFOR did a wonderful job yesterday. Freaking Joe Scarborough and Mika Brezinski were in Moore,OK this morning tromping around in debris. There was no need for that, the local news was already there. Seriously, if I had just suffered that kind of trauma and some news moron was asking me how I felt I’d probably assault them.

462 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:25:33am
463 Targetpractice  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:26:25am

BIAB, going to make some lunch

464 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:26:28am

re: #453 sattv4u2

Of course he is

And again, do you think the people of Moore give one rats ass about that today? Do you think they care that the other news orgs are using them as a “back drop” for ratings, knowing that it will bring more attention and donations to them?

NO

Geez. The US has a news-gathering system that is reliant on ratings because it doesn’t have a large-scale publicly-funded independent news organization (see: BBC). So your choice in the US is:

a) no news

b) news that to some extent relies on ratings

I think most of us will agree that it’s worth having (some) news organizations in Moore.

On the other hand, Beck is a self-serving propagandist with no pretentions whatsoever towards reporting the news. He is all about taking any and all steps possible to denigrate Obama and the Democratic party in order to boost his standing among the dimwits who subsequently buy overpriced gold from his backers.

Hence:

news organizations in Moore - good

Beck in Moore - bad

465 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:28:52am

Kevin Durant (OKC Thunder superstar) just pledged $1,000,000 matching funds and urged others to do the same. The news reported earlier of some fellow in Indianapolis (didn’t catch his name) did the same, earlier this morning.

466 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:29:42am

If Beck wanted to actually do some good for the victims, he would donate some of those millions of dollars he supposedly has.

467 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:30:23am

re: #465 Capitalist Tool

Kevin Durant (OKC Thunder superstar) just pledged $1,000,000 matching funds and urged others to do the same. The news reported earlier of some fellow in Indianapolis (didn’t catch his name) did the same, earlier this morning.

Wish I could match (or even approach) what Durant did.

468 celticdragon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:32:34am

Senator Tom Coburn (Lawful Evil, Oklahoma), is demanding that no aid go to Oklahoma without dollar for dollar cuts from other programs.

theweek.com

Words fail.

On a related note, a number of outraged Democrats on other forums are demanding that we take him at his word and refuse aid, since aid should not be used to punish people on medicare and Social Security. Dems are calling representatives (particularly in areas hit by Sandy last fall) to remind them that Coburn and Inhofe tried to block disaster aid to traditional democratic states.

This is how a country falls apart.

469 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:32:38am

re: #467 sattv4u2

Wish I could match (or even approach) what Durant did.

Throughout his history here, KD has repeatedly shown himself to be a class act of the highest order. He is genuinely a great guy.

470 Eventual Carrion  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:32:57am

re: #377 Targetpractice

And when they get there, they’ll of course gripe that their “goodwill” is being crowded out by federal assistance and that it’s making people “dependent” on the government.

Yeah, it is all grandstanding for the media. Don’t they have a fucking homeless shelter near their home they can help out?

471 jaunte  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:33:02am

re: #466 Dr. Matt

He does have a bit in the bank.
mediaite.com

472 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:33:54am

re: #468 celticdragon

Senator Tom Coburn (Lawful Evil, Oklahoma), is demanding that no aid go to Oklahoma without dollar for dollar cuts from other programs.

theweek.com

Words fail.

On a related note, a number of outraged Democrats on other forums are demanding that we take him at his word and refuse aid, since aid should not be used to punish people on medicare and Social Security. Dems are calling representatives (particularly in areas hit by Sandy last fall) to remand them that Coburn and Inhofe tried to block disaster aid to traditional democratic states.

This is how a country falls apart.

I’m cool with that as long as the budget cuts start with Coburn’s salary.

473 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:34:09am

Am I interpreting this correctly, that the Senator from Oklahoma wants to use a natural disaster in his own state as a bargaining chip to force other states to cut welfare programs?

474 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:34:13am

re: #464 iossarian

Geez. The US has a news-gathering system that is reliant on ratings because it doesn’t have a large-scale publicly-funded independent news organization (see: BBC). So your choice in the US is:

a) no news

b) news that to some extent relies on ratings

I think most of us will agree that it’s worth having (some) news organizations in Moore.

On the other hand, Beck is a self-serving propagandist with no pretentions whatsoever towards reporting the news. He is all about taking any and all steps possible to denigrate Obama and the Democratic party in order to boost his standing among the dimwits who subsequently buy overpriced gold from his backers.

Hence:

news organizations in Moore - good

Beck in Moore - bad

We could just let the Koch Brothers bankroll the whole thing.

475 celticdragon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:34:30am

re: #472 Vicious Babushka

I’m cool with that as long as the budget cuts start with Coburn’s salary.

I agree.

476 jaunte  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:34:48am

re: #468 celticdragon

Senator Tom Coburn (Lawful Evil, Oklahoma), is demanding that no aid go to Oklahoma without dollar for dollar cuts from other programs.

Maybe he’ll settle for fewer General Dynamics tanks.

477 celticdragon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:35:33am

re: #473 iossarian

Am I interpreting this correctly, that the Senator from Oklahoma wants to use a natural disaster in his own state as a bargaining chip to force other states to cut welfare programs?

Yes. That is what he is doing. This amounts to waging a form of cultural cold war.

478 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:35:54am

re: #466 Dr. Matt

Yes! The big needs are coming. Housing, restoration of utilities, new schools and local businesses,infrastructure repair,etc. It’s going to take time and work, and lots of money being spent in the right places to get everyone back on their feet again. Obviously immediate needs matter, but once the TV cameras go away, help needs to continue.

479 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:36:43am

re: #474 wrenchwench

We could just let the Koch Brothers bankroll the whole thing.

This is exactly what I mean when I rant at Americans who want to keep the government “out” of everything, and tell them that “keeping the government out” of some area of your life usually means letting some for-profit outfit into it.

Don’t complain that news organizations chase ratings if you’re the kind of person who whines about government support for public news organizations.

480 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:37:13am

re: #418 A Mom Anon

I do understand the wanting to help part, people need everything at this point.Hell, my first thought is to load up the car and just go and help, I also know I’d probably be in the way, so instead I donate money if I can. Donating things may come later. But the damned grandstanding and the “look at me” part is what stinks. You just do the shit, and do it right without thinking you’re owed a thank you or to show up the government. Make some calls, ask the mayor of the town or the governor what would actually be helpful, not swing in like freaking Tarzan trying to be a hero. Moore, OK is already overrun with media and there are people who are probably still in shock wandering around trying to salvage any little bit of their lives they can find.

“There will be no more ‘thank you Masked Man’”

;)

481 celticdragon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:37:33am

re: #476 jaunte

Maybe he’ll settle for fewer General Dynamics tanks.

We have more Abrams tanks than we possibly know what to do with.

The 3rd Soviet Shock Army is not sitting on the other side of the Fulda Gap anymore.

482 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:38:06am

re: #451 wrenchwench

Was that before or after you changed it from the Salvation Army to the Red Cross?

I want to know what he knew and when he knew it and when he changed his mind and why he changed it.

483 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:38:16am

re: #474 wrenchwench

We could just let the Koch Brothers bankroll the whole thing.

Oh yes “The Private Sector”

484 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:38:22am

re: #468 celticdragon

Senator Tom Coburn (Lawful Evil, Oklahoma), is demanding that no aid go to Oklahoma without dollar for dollar cuts from other programs.

Ok, Senator. We’ll start with the savings from closing Ft Sill.

485 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:39:27am

re: #460 sattv4u2

And after Hurricane Issac people on the Gulf coast were thankful about the media. Yeah, I met them

Gee, is it possible both types exist?

Modern journalism is highly exploitative. They don’t need to do the creepy right-in-peoples-faced bullshit to report on the disaster or get people to donate money.

And by actively encouraging people to just blindly donate without considering logistics, you’re really being a dick.

486 Ian G.  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:39:31am

re: #473 iossarian

Am I interpreting this correctly, that the Senator from Oklahoma wants to use a natural disaster in his own state as a bargaining chip to force other states to cut welfare programs?

“I have a list of demands that need to be met in 48 hours! I have a gun pointed at my head and I’m not afraid to use it!”

487 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:40:33am

re: #484 William Barnett-Lewis

I’m guessing the Senator’s OK residence wasn’t anywhere near this storm system either. I wonder if he’d be so budget conscious if it was HIS house that got flattened, or someone he loved was killed.

488 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:42:14am

re: #485 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Gee, is it possible both types exist

Absolutely, yet you mentioned one, and not the other. Gee

And by actively encouraging people to just blindly donate without considering logistics
And you know Beck just “blindly” donated “without considering logistics”, how??

you’re really being a dick
Ahh,, name calling ,, again

{yawn}

489 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:44:18am

re: #488 sattv4u2

Sorry, you’re really being an obtuse dick.

Seriously. You’re a human being. But you’re choosing this moment of supreme tragedy to pull yet another one of your fussy little tantrums. What the fuck? Have a little bit of goddamn empathy. Everything is just an opportunity to have a nitpicky jerky little fight with you. From the big to the small, it’s just a chance for you to annoy others.

I really don’t get what you get out of this behavior.

490 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:44:38am

re: #488 sattv4u2

And you know Beck just “blindly” donated “without considering logistics”, how??

Because he’s a colossal fucking tool who has no problem making outrageous shit up just to further his own personal financial goals.

The idea that he would actually coordinate with the Red Cross rather than just fetching up in his yeehawmobile with some bottled water is ludicrous.

491 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:46:02am

re: #488 sattv4u2

And you know Beck just “blindly” donated “without considering logistics”, how??

Because he said so.

492 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:46:38am

Beck is just trying to help.

Just like he just asks questions.

493 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:47:08am

Keep in mind that at about the time he sent that Tweet there was still Tornado watch in effect that could pick up an 18 wheeler like a matchbox toy.

494 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:47:31am

re: #490 iossarian

Beck probably is hooked up with some charitable org, probably a highly religious-based one, who is more than happy to let him blubber and cry all over everyone in order to promote their brand. Never mind that he’s an insane racist antisemite.

Glenn Beck’s presence could actively turn people off from donating, actually. He’s a scam artist who pushes gold. He delegitimizes the relief efforts by his presence. He should get the fuck out.

495 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:48:18am

re: #491 Vicious Babushka

Because he said so.

Where’s the part that says “I never contacted the Red Cross or Oklahoma authorities before we headed out”?

496 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:48:20am

Things to consider with donations.

Reputation of the charity doing the work. I’m not particularly high on the ARC, but they do have logistics and background in doing disaster relief. Salvation Army has a good reputation that wasn’t sullied in a way that the ARC was in response to Katrina or 9/11.

Some local charities, like local Rotary organizations or Elks, etc., can be good at distributing aid to those in need and have boots on the ground, but they too are hampered by the fact of just how severe the storm was in wiping out this community. I’d check to see which local charities are accepting - and some church/shul groups are good at coordinating aid/donations from other churches/shuls around the country.

What to donate. Unless you’re in driving range of the disaster area, cash is king. Donating food or water or clothing in NYC to an ARC outfit or Salvation Army wont help people in OKC nearly as much as a cash donation would. It adds to costs to ship the goods to OKC from NYC. Cash lets the charity get aid to those in need faster - purchasing the goods and services as close to the affected areas and speeding the response.

497 geoffm33  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:49:46am

re: #483 Vicious Babushka

Oh yes “The Private Sector”

why do you hate capitalism?!?

498 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:49:49am
499 celticdragon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:49:49am

re: #486 Ian G.

“I have a list of demands that need to be met in 48 hours! I have a gun pointed at my head a family that lost everything they had in two minutes, and I’m not afraid to use it!”

Minor correction.

500 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:50:15am

re: #494 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

… more than happy to let him blubber and cry all over…

That’s what I did, yesterday… ok, this morning a bit, too.
Ok, more than a bit, so what

501 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:50:39am

re: #496 lawhawk

I guess no organization is perfect, but I don’t like that the Salvation Army wants to ‘save souls’ while they help people.

502 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:50:43am

re: #495 sattv4u2

Where’s the part that says “I never contacted the Red Cross or Oklahoma authorities before we headed out”?

Read his fucking timeline.

503 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:50:43am

re: #496 lawhawk

Things to consider with donations.

…cash.

Glen Beck should know that. He has lots of cash.

But somehow a bunch of SUV’s and two 18 wheelers is a WIN.

504 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:51:02am

re: #494 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Beck probably is hooked up with some charitable org, probably a highly religious-based one, who is more than happy to let him blubber and cry all over everyone in order to promote their brand.

Maybe. I think you’re being generous to a fault.

lifenews.com

If that’s the extent of the “planning” that went into his convoy then he’s an idiot.

Glenn Beck’s presence could actively turn people off from donating, actually. He’s a scam artist who pushes gold. He delegitimizes the relief efforts by his presence. He should get the fuck out.

Now this, on the other hand, I can wholeheartedly agree with. Note how the (pro-Beck) link I gave above instantly makes the connection between Beck’s contribution to the relief effort and his drive to prevent women from obtaining abortions.

505 BigPapa  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:51:44am

re: #498 Vicious Babushka

3:18 rev2: ‘Let us not love in word nor tongue, but in deed and truth. But cash is mo bettahs.’

506 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:51:56am

re: #500 Capitalist Tool

That’s what I did, yesterday… ok, this morning a bit, too.
Ok, more than a bit, so what

So you didn’t show up and stick your face in a TV camera and do it.

507 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:52:03am

re: #495 sattv4u2

Where’s the part that says “I never contacted the Red Cross or Oklahoma authorities before we headed out”?

If he had been in touch with them, why no shout out?

“I’m coordinating with the Red Cross - those guys are doing a great job and need your support.”

“Working with local govt staffers on the ground to get water where it’s needed.”

etc.

508 Bear  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:55:09am

re: #496 lawhawk

A big PLUS for the Salvation Army.

509 sattv4u2  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:55:25am

Ah well

The day of errands awaits

Again, you want to type about this ,, type here

redcross.org

donate.salvationarmyusa.org

510 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:55:35am

re: #504 iossarian

Nah, that’s pretty much what I said. I’d expect Beck to be hooked up with some religious charity. That’s what Mercury One is:

mercuryone.org

I doubt they coordinated well with others, but they might have. It’s not really that important. I doubt Beck knows if they are, but some administrative assistant or project manager might be on top of their shit. There’s plenty of earnest people in those sorts of charities who actually want to do a good job.

But that’s a moot point. Beck is a scam artist, an antisemite, a racist, and having him associating himself with charitable help for this disaster isn’t a good thing. Sure, some of his crazy-ass followers will donate, but it can also turn other people (rightly) off.

511 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:55:39am

Several organizations have set up collection points around the metro area to accept donations… For instance, Ch 5 KOCO is working with Feed The Children and has a parking lot full of volunteers loading stacks of donations into FTC trucks for deployment into the rescue area.

512 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:56:43am

re: #507 iossarian

Bingo! If he had contacted people and coordinated something with either the government or a rescue organization it seems really weird not to mention it at all.

513 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 9:58:08am

re: #511 Capitalist Tool

Several organizations have set up collection points around the metro area to accept donations… For instance, Ch 5 KOCO is working with Feed The Children and has a parking lot full of volunteers loading stacks of donations into FTC trucks for deployment into the rescue area.

What’s really sad is how often foolish people following Satt and Beck’s model show up with supplies that get wasted, or sit around for days, because the logistics aren’t set up to process them that way. We had some of this in Hurricane Sandy, actually, where the church I was volunteering out of, even though they really, really clearly had a sign telling people to take clothing donations to a warehouse for sorting, would have people drop clothes off there, where we didn’t have room to store them at all. We had to put some in the kitchen while we made the food, and the goddamn smell of garlic I’m sure got into everything.

514 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:00:19am

re: #512 A Mom Anon

Bingo! If he had contacted people and coordinated something with either the government or a rescue organization it seems really weird not to mention it at all.

I’m not sure the Red Cross just allows any charity to try to coordinate with them, they probably have some standards for who they’ll work with, even in a crisis. I’m not sure you can just call them up and say “We’re Insane Christian Theocrats Who Think Obamas a Socialist, and we’re soliciting donations for our relief efforts. Can we tap into your logisitical network? Thanks!”

There’s so many scammy nonprofits out there.

515 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:00:22am

I totally forgot about the little tea party rallies that they are having in front of IRS offices all over the country. I’m sure the media forgot all about them too.

516 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:02:00am

re: #515 Vicious Babushka

I totally forgot about the little tea party rallies that they are having in front of IRS offices all over the country. I’m sure the media forgot all about them too.

“There is timing in everything. There is even timing in The Void.”
- Miyamoto Musashi

517 lawhawk  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:02:07am

Re: media coverage

The local coverage yesterday from OKC was amazing. They were covering the disaster happening to their own community - friends and family were in harms’ way and they were going about the duty of reporting the storm as it churned through Moore as best as they could. Once the storm passed, they attempted to convey as much information as they could. They are owed a debt of gratitude for that.

The national media, however, sweeps in and begins their coverage supplanting the local reporting (as the morning and nightly news shows set up shop with the damage in the background). This is an opportunity for the local outlets to shine - but they get shunted off by the morning national news broadcasts and the nightly anchors who use their community as a backstop. I’d urge the national networks (and cable news outlets) to consider an alternative arrangement in which the local networks are picked up as the national news feed when reporting on the situation for the next few days. They’re much more invested and knowledgeable about the situation .

But that’s just me. And I know that the networks wont go for it because of what they pay the national broadcast anchors. But it’s a thought…

518 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:02:20am

re: #514 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I’m not sure the Red Cross just allows any charity to try to coordinate with them, they probably have some standards for who they’ll work with, even in a crisis. I’m not sure you can just call them up and say “We’re Insane Christian Theocrats Who Think Obamas a Socialist, and we’re soliciting donations for our relief efforts. Can we tap into your logisitical network? Thanks!”

There’s so many scammy nonprofits out there.

I want to know who cleared the roads of debris so that Glenn Beck’s little convoy could just roll into “Ground Zero.”

519 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:02:31am

re: #510 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Nah, that’s pretty much what I said. I’d expect Beck to be hooked up with some religious charity. That’s what Mercury One is:

mercuryone.org

I doubt they coordinated well with others, but they might have. It’s not really that important. I doubt Beck knows if they are, but some administrative assistant or project manager might be on top of their shit. There’s plenty of earnest people in those sorts of charities who actually want to do a good job.

But that’s a moot point. Beck is a scam artist, an antisemite, a racist, and having him associating himself with charitable help for this disaster isn’t a good thing. Sure, some of his crazy-ass followers will donate, but it can also turn other people (rightly) off.

Mercury One seems to be Beck’s personal scam vehicle.

Mercury One will be funded without tax dollars through Glenn’s clothing line 1791, The Original Blueprint and the generosity of the American people. 1791 is named thoughtfully for the year the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution by our Founding Fathers. It is our vision that 1791 will begin an industrial revolution in our nation. One that will bring jobs, factories and skills back to the American people: one entrepreneur, one factory, one town at a time.

From another page there:

Mercury One will not “e;reinvent the wheel”e [sic] of charity, but rather harness the ingenuity and ambition of Americans to do what we were once well known for — leadership. With this community of individuals, Mercury One will focus their energies on shining through the shroud of spiritual tyranny which is plaguing this once-great nation. Mercury One will launch America again into her orbit of greatness and inspire the world to follow.

They also dis NASA while appropriating the name of one of its vehicles.

Today NASA, once a foundation of character and honor, has been reduced to nothing more than a public relations firm. Our country is now set on an uncharted course. America’s freedoms, opportunities and Judeo-Christian foundation are being disassembled at a lightning speed.

520 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:03:22am

Hailing with heavy rain in Moore, as we speak.

521 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:03:36am

re: #518 Vicious Babushka

I want to know who cleared the roads of debris so that Glenn Beck’s little convoy could just roll into “Ground Zero.”

God. Of course.
//

522 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:04:48am

re: #521 Feline Fearless Leader

God. Of course.
//

“What do you mean why didn’t I save you from the hurricane? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!”

523 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:05:35am

re: #513 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

When my dad died, for some reason a ton of people decided the would offer help in the form of food. Nothing wrong with that, and the idea is pretty solid - when you’re dealing with sudden funeral and related arrangements, day-to-day stuff like cooking and so forth can get ignored. But the funny thing was that nobody asked “what do you need”, they just did what they thought was a good idea. And ALL of them — every last one — brought fried chicken. There was so much chicken that we ended up throwing a lot of perfectly good food away. It truly did get amusing after the 5th or 6th person showed up with a big pile of chicken. I kept expecting Allen Funt to step out of the bushes and tell us we were on Candid Camera.

524 celticdragon  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:05:55am

Something else here that has some bearing on the discussion we had here last night on storm shelters and schools. I have been angry that the schools did not have shelters, while others pointed out the cost and/or difficulty in building them in that part of the country.

democraticunderground.com

When I was watching the coverage of the horrible events in Moore, Oklahoma, I kept thinking: why didn’t this public school system build a storm shelter for their elementary school kids? The area is not only part of “Tornado Alley,” but also the same town had been hit by a very bad tornado several years ago.

This is not a small poor district - it includes 23,000 students in the suburbs.

Maybe the answer lies in their priorities.

mooremonthly.com

Moore brags that they have one of the “Biggest and Best Stadium in the State.” In 2011, the School Board approved a bond issue that included $2.2 million “to build a new press box and improve the bleachers on the home side of the field.” They also recently replaced their artificial turf. They also recently spent money for a new video scoreboard.

We always manage to afford the things we really want.

2.2 million for teh awesomest high school football stadium evuh…no problemo.

Building storm shelters for grade school kids…no way.

525 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:06:38am

re: #523 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

When my dad died, for some reason a ton of people decided the would offer help in the form of food. Nothing wrong with that, and the idea is pretty solid - when you’re dealing with sudden funeral and related arrangements, day-to-day stuff like cooking and so forth can get ignored. But the funny thing was that nobody asked “what do you need”, they just did what they thought was a good idea. And ALL of them — every last one — brought fried chicken. There was so much chicken that we ended up throwing a lot of perfectly good food away. It truly did get amusing after the 5th or 6th person showed up with a big pile of chicken. I kept expecting Allen Funt to step out of the bushes and tell us we were on Candid Camera.

Maybe Safeway was having a sale on Tyson’s and everybody bought much more than they needed.

526 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:07:20am
Posted on Friday, July 6, 2012

Commentary: Holding Glenn Beck’s Mercury One charity accountable

Bud Kennedy | The Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Author and entertainer Glenn Beck brings his circus to Arlington on July 28.

Fine.

Just don’t fib about it.

He says his Cowboys Stadium event will be a charity evening of “reflection” and inspiration.

But don’t ask questions about the “charity.”

Beck’s event is named Restoring Love. It’s a three-day Beckfest of revivals, Tea Party rallies and publicity stunts, all to restore the American spirit while also reviving love and attention for Beck, his books and his $40-million-a-year publishing and webcast empire.

Officially, the event raises money for Beck’s cause, Mercury One.

According to records, Mercury One was founded eight months ago in New York and now operates from a Dallas postal box.

The Internal Revenue Service granted Mercury One tax-exempt status. It’s a Section 501(c)(3) public charity.

But how public is it?

Until recent weeks, Mercury One’s website, mercuryone.org, listed only one board member: President Joe Kerry, a former New Jersey lawyer and the senior vice president of Beck’s company.

Lately, Mercury One has listed two more board members: Tania Beck, Glenn Beck’s wife, and Aledo religious author and speaker David Barton, a former Texas GOP vice chairman.

I don’t know about you. But to me, this doesn’t sound like philanthropy.

[…]

Read more here: mcclatchydc.com

527 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:08:02am

re: #523 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

When my dad died, for some reason a ton of people decided the would offer help in the form of food. Nothing wrong with that, and the idea is pretty solid - when you’re dealing with sudden funeral and related arrangements, day-to-day stuff like cooking and so forth can get ignored. But the funny thing was that nobody asked “what do you need”, they just did what they thought was a good idea. And ALL of them — every last one — brought fried chicken. There was so much chicken that we ended up throwing a lot of perfectly good food away. It truly did get amusing after the 5th or 6th person showed up with a big pile of chicken. I kept expecting Allen Funt to step out of the bushes and tell us we were on Candid Camera.

It was very nice of you to not tell them you were a vegetarian.

528 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:08:48am

re: #519 wrenchwench

You know what’s fucked up? Most of the time these days I see ‘Judeo-christian’ it’s coming from groups that are basically antisemitic.

I never liked the term, but it’s really gotten to be simply an ugly fig leaf, a really disgusting appropriation of Jews (who, again, in the US are a very ‘liberal’ group) to cover up the most arbitrary assholish aspects of Christianity.

529 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:09:03am

I haven’t been following this donation thing that much, but I don’t remember some religious/political organization swooping down on the actual ground zero in the wake of 9/11. Granted, it would be harder in New York City, but I don’t remember debates like this a decade ago.

530 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:09:17am

re: #526 wrenchwench

Wow, wife on the board. Old-school scam!

531 Sionainn  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:09:42am

re: #510 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Nah, that’s pretty much what I said. I’d expect Beck to be hooked up with some religious charity. That’s what Mercury One is:

mercuryone.org

I doubt they coordinated well with others, but they might have. It’s not really that important. I doubt Beck knows if they are, but some administrative assistant or project manager might be on top of their shit. There’s plenty of earnest people in those sorts of charities who actually want to do a good job.

But that’s a moot point. Beck is a scam artist, an antisemite, a racist, and having him associating himself with charitable help for this disaster isn’t a good thing. Sure, some of his crazy-ass followers will donate, but it can also turn other people (rightly) off.

Beck’s wife, David Barton, and some other dude are the board of directors for this charity. Ugh.

532 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:09:45am

Ping- pong ball hail at 55 mph.

533 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:10:09am

re: #525 Vicious Babushka

I had a potluck a few years ago and I let a friend talk me into not “overthinking it”. She seemed to think everyone would bring a covered dish or some meat,HA! Everyone brought a dessert,lol. I made my world famous mac and cheese with BACON. We ended up ordering pizza and I made my helpful friend go home and get her coffee pot so we could have two pots going to go with all the cake and pie and cinnamon rolls piled on the dining room table.

534 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:10:23am

re: #523 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

When my dad died, for some reason a ton of people decided the would offer help in the form of food. Nothing wrong with that, and the idea is pretty solid - when you’re dealing with sudden funeral and related arrangements, day-to-day stuff like cooking and so forth can get ignored. But the funny thing was that nobody asked “what do you need”, they just did what they thought was a good idea. And ALL of them — every last one — brought fried chicken. There was so much chicken that we ended up throwing a lot of perfectly good food away. It truly did get amusing after the 5th or 6th person showed up with a big pile of chicken. I kept expecting Allen Funt to step out of the bushes and tell us we were on Candid Camera.

When people experience tragedies in our church, pretty much the second* thing the pastor says is to only do the food delivery thing if you sign up, coordinate what you provide, and be respectful of what the family wants/requests.

* First thing is obvious - it is a church :)

535 Capitalist Tool  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:10:49am

re: #531 Sionainn

Beck’s wife, David Barton, and some other dude are the board of directors for this charity. Ugh.

David Barton is Beck’s wife?

536 dragonath  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:11:16am

re: #526 wrenchwench

Sounds like this relief group is a front to preserve said non-profit status.

537 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:11:38am

re: #535 Capitalist Tool

David Barton is Beck’s wife?

Don’t let Bryan Fischer find out!

538 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:11:59am

re: #530 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Wow, wife on the board. Old-school scam!

And David “Wonderful World”* Barton as well.

* - lyrics come to life:
Don’t know much about history / Don’t know much biology / Don’t know much about a science book / Don’t know much about the french I took

;)

539 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:12:03am

re: #533 A Mom Anon

I had a potluck a few years ago and I let a friend talk me into not “overthinking it”. She seemed to think everyone would bring a covered dish or some meat,HA! Everyone brought a dessert,lol. I made my world famous mac and cheese with BACON. We ended up ordering pizza and I made my helpful friend go home and get her coffee pot so we could have two pots going to go with all the cake and pie and cinnamon rolls piled on the dining room table.

First fried chicken, now bacon. Stop doing this to me!

540 iossarian  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:12:33am

re: #535 Capitalist Tool

David Barton is Beck’s wife?

DING DING DING

541 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:12:46am

re: #535 Capitalist Tool

Try your waitress; tip the veal.

542 SidewaysQuark  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:13:44am

I saw some conservatives on one message board making remarks that Obama deliberately delays disaster relief efforts to “red states”. Stupidest thing I ever saw since Kanye West’s “George W. Bush doesn’t want to help black people” remark.

I hate it when people use horrid disasters that truly do unify political differences as yet another opportunity to try to divide people.

543 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:14:00am

re: #529 dragonath

I haven’t been following this donation thing that much, but I don’t remember some religious/political organization swooping down on the actual ground zero in the wake of 9/11. Granted, it would be harder in New York City, but I don’t remember debates like this a decade ago.

Of course not. There was a white christian in the white house then. Worthy of trust

544 Sionainn  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:14:46am

re: #535 Capitalist Tool

David Barton is Beck’s wife?

LOL. No.

545 wrenchwench  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:14:53am

re: #536 dragonath

Sounds like this relief group is a front to preserve somethings’s non-profit status.

It’s a huge propaganda machine, and also tax write-off. Cruise the website.

546 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:14:55am

re: #533 A Mom Anon

I had a potluck a few years ago and I let a friend talk me into not “overthinking it”. She seemed to think everyone would bring a covered dish or some meat,HA! Everyone brought a dessert,lol. I made my world famous mac and cheese with BACON. We ended up ordering pizza and I made my helpful friend go home and get her coffee pot so we could have two pots going to go with all the cake and pie and cinnamon rolls piled on the dining room table.

My parents belonged to a hiking group when they lived out in Oregon. The group did potlucks every so often with the predictable messy mix of dishes not balancing out.

So they instituted a new set of rules for potlucks. The host fixed a tossed salad (or something similar) and did most of the drinks. Everyone else brought an appetizer or dessert. Allowed everyone to sample a bit of lots of different dishes without worrying about who would do entrees and have to bring enough (or too much since everyone filled up on the appetizers.)

547 efuseakay  Tue, May 21, 2013 10:26:05am

NBC has some photos on the ground, and aerial… I’m without words.

nbcnews.com

548 Joanne  Tue, May 21, 2013 1:06:08pm

re: #524 celticdragon

I realize that this is a dead thread, but hopefully you will see it.

I was one of those who took you to task for what you said. Not for your desire to have the infrastructure (I agreed with that), but for claiming that the school did the wrong thing…that the kids should have been left to their own on the city’s streets or in a bus or basically everywhere but where they were. I felt you were second-guessing decisions made by the school board using the 20/20 vision of hindsight.

I, unfortunately, agree completely with you on priorities. That is, even more unfortunately, not something only applicable to the state of Oklahoma.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 111 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 271 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1