Louie Gohmert: Women Should Be Forced to Give Birth Even if the Baby Is Doomed to Die in Agony

Dumb, but also evil
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We laugh at Texas Gongressmoron Louie Gohmert a lot, because he comes out with so many deliciously stupid remarks. But this story is a reminder that, comical though he may be, Gohmert is also a first class heartless Republican bastard, as he tells a woman who had a medically necessary late term abortion that she should have carried the baby to term — even though the child had no chance of surviving and would have died in agony.

Ms. Zink, having my great sympathy and empathy both. I still come back wondering, shouldn’t we wait… and see if the child can survive before we decide to rip him apart? So, these are ethical issues, they’re moral issues, they’re difficult issues, and the parents should certainly be consulted. But it just seems like, it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.

Good grief. I tried to come up with a snarky ending, but all I can think is “what a horrible, horrible person.” There’s something seriously wrong with Gohmert — and he’s far from the only right wing Congressman with these sickening misogynist views.

Via: Louie Gohmert: Women Should Be Forced to Carry Nonviable Pregnancies to Term

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410 comments

1 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:03:10am

Because forcing a child to live a short extremely painful existence where he/she dies never even having a chance to live a normal life is the Christian thing to do.

2 LWNJ  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:03:25am

Not just misogynist, seems he doesn’t much like children, either. Not if he’s for condemning them to a short life of constant pain.

3 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:05:49am

Words Fail.

4 iossarian  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:05:55am

I think he doesn’t understand that there are certain conditions under which there is no possible good outcome. Possibly because the right loves to trumpet the kids who turn out OK despite having been screened for *higher probabilities* of severe defects.

One thing is not like the other.

5 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:05:57am
I knew you and loved you before I ever say your picture.

and the woman? How does she fit into all this.

WTF?

6 jaunte  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:06:06am
Ms. Zink, having my great sympathy and empathy both.

“This is as good as it gets.”

7 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:07:37am
But it just seems like, it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.

“But then we’ll call it Infanticide and force you to try to keep it alive, all the while quietly blaming you for something you must have done to cause the birth defect.”

8 jaunte  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:08:15am

He’s doing that fake humble/sympathetic voice he learned in church.

9 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:08:22am

“it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.”

Wait until its too late to do the humane thing, then deal with the consequences which not only will be emotionally devastating, but also cripple the family economically for years if they try to keep the child comfortable as long as they can.

Yeah, that is the “educated” thing to do.

I’ve scraped things off my shoes which are worth more than Gohmert.

10 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:09:55am

I’m not up to watching this. Is it a video that will be useful to run in adverts against him? If so, good.

11 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:09:56am

re: #5 FemNaziBitch

and the woman? How does she fit into all this.

WTF?

She’s an incubator. Machines don’t get to make decisions.

12 Mattand  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:10:01am

Christ, you don’t get to say this:

Ms. Zink, having my great sympathy and empathy both.

when you follow it up with this:

I still come back wondering, shouldn’t we wait… and see if the child can survive before we decide to rip him apart? So, these are ethical issues, they’re moral issues, they’re difficult issues, and the parents should certainly be consulted. But it just seems like, it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.

Broken record time: this is what you support when you vote Republican these days.

13 iossarian  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:10:25am

re: #4 iossarian

I think he doesn’t understand that there are certain conditions under which there is no possible good outcome. Possibly because the right loves to trumpet the kids who turn out OK despite having been screened for *higher probabilities* of severe defects.

One thing is not like the other.

Incidentally, Tim Tebow (the crappy quarterback) is a great example of this. Wiki sez:

Prior to becoming pregnant with Tim, his mother contracted amoebic dysentery and fell into a coma. She discovered she was pregnant while recovering. Because of the medications used to treat her, the fetus experienced a severe placental abruption.[8] Doctors expected a stillbirth and recommended an abortion however, the Tebows decided against it citing their strong faith and on August 14, 1987, she gave birth to Tim in Manila.[8]

So this kind of thing gets trumpeted by the mouth breathers. “See? The doctor recommended an abortion, but Timmy turned out just fine. Therefore you don’t really need abortions.”

Ignoring the fact that there are some cases (thankfully rather rare) in which there is no possibility of a happy outcome.

14 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:10:28am

Gohmert and other whacko men need to get over the sperm ownership concept.

YOU GAVE IT AWAY. It’s gone, out of your control.

15 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:10:51am

To be fair to Gohmert, he is living proof that you can live without a functioning brain.

16 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:11:12am

re: #15 Kragar

To be fair to Gohmert, he is living proof that you can live without a functioning brain.

I thought that was Palin—no?

17 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:11:23am

re: #9 Kragar

“it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.”

Wait until its too late to do the humane thing, then deal with the consequences which not only will be emotionally devastating, but also cripple the family economically for years if they try to keep the child comfortable as long as they can.

Yeah, that is the “educated” thing to do.

I’ve scraped things off my shoes which are worth more than Gohmert.

He assumes our technology and medical knowledge cannot determine the most likely outcome. Authoritarian is he.

18 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:11:51am

re: #11 calochortus

She’s an incubator. Machines don’t get to make decisions.

Not QUITE true. She might make a BAD decision, like drinking, using drugs, or such.

19 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:12:37am

re: #18 GeneJockey

Not QUITE true. She might make a BAD decision, like drinking, using drugs, or such.

Working outside the home, not attending church regularly…

20 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:12:37am

re: #17 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

He assumes our technology and medical knowledge cannot determine the most likely outcome. Authoritarian is he.

Nah, he and the other whackos think their Pater Familias rights are being ignored and are pissed about it.

That’s all …

21 allegro  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:12:57am
Ms. Zink, having my great sympathy and empathy both.

Liar.

22 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:13:50am

re: #20 FemNaziBitch

Nah, he and the other whackos think their Pater Familias rights are being ignored and are pissed about it.

That’s all …

Seriously, this isn’t about the fetus. It’s about the law acknowledging that the woman makes the decision. It’s out of the hands of the man.

Power and Control

23 Mattand  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:14:04am

re: #13 iossarian

Incidentally, Tim Tebow (the crappy quarterback) is a great example of this. Wiki sez:

So this kind of thing gets trumpeted by the mouth breathers. “See? The doctor recommended an abortion, but Timmy turned out just fine. Therefore you don’t really need abortions.”

Ignoring the fact that there are some cases (thankfully rather rare) in which there is no possibility of a happy outcome.

It’s also been pointed out that that story has a huge glaring hole in it: namely that most of this happened in the Philippines, which literally outlaws abortion.

Kinda hard to believe the doctors were considering this option, unless they were going to go the back alley route.

24 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:15:34am

re: #18 GeneJockey

re: #19 Kragar

OK, I’ll amend that to shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions.

25 sizzzzlerz  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:15:51am

Just more confirmation that these fetus fanatics only pretend to care until the baby is born. After that, they couldn’t give a fuck.

26 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:16:06am

Gongressmoron?

Yeah, that’s him.

He cares more for foisting this unnecessary and highly emotional situation on women because of his misguided nonsense about the pain of the fetus. He ignores the pain and suffering of the woman and the family who would have to unnecessarily carry the nonviable fetus to term only to watch it die because of the fetus’ systemic problems that would have otherwise been aborted earlier - at less risk to the mother.

These people seem to think that the fetus in the womb have some magical properties that usurp the woman’s rights to her own body and to make her own decisions. In these instances, it’s medically indicated because the fetus is not viable. Yet, Gohmert’s misguided notions should trump the medical knowledge and course of treatment that does the least amount of harm to the woman (who might otherwise suffer complications from carrying to term to deliver naturally or via C-section at significantly higher costs too).

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:16:13am

His principles. Her uterus.

28 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:17:01am

re: #27 Feline Fearless Leader

His principles. Her uterus.

except that he think’s he owns that uterus —simply because he put his sperm there.

29 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:17:06am

re: #25 sizzzzlerz

Just more confirmation that these fetus fanatics only pretend to care until the baby is born. After that, they couldn’t give a fuck.

Almost. They still want to make sure it never hears about Evolution, or has to encounter a gay Scout.

Apart from that, though, yeah.

30 jaunte  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:17:55am

re: #25 sizzzzlerz

Just more confirmation that these fetus fanatics only pretend to care until the baby is born. After that, they couldn’t give a fuck.

Unless it might be a terror baby.
nydailynews.com

31 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:22:30am

re: #28 FemNaziBitch

except that he think’s he owns that uterus —simply because he put his sperm there.

In Gohmert’s case it’s that his principles and religious rules need to be applied to anyone.

===
Pasha: The private life is dead - for a man with any manhood.

Zhivago: I saw some of your ‘manhood’ on the way at a place called Minsk.

Pasha: They were selling horses to the Whites.

Zhivago: It seems you’ve burnt the wrong village.

Pasha: They always say that, and what does it matter? A village betrays us, a village is burned. The point’s made.

Zhivago: Your point - their village.

32 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:25:49am

re: #28 FemNaziBitch

except that he think’s he owns that uterus —simply because he put his sperm there.

oh…I get it now!
In Gohmert-land a uterus is like a safe deposit box at the bank where you keep important stuffs that you don’t want anyone else to get at (including the bank).

33 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:26:43am

re: #31 Feline Fearless Leader

Great choice of a quote, you’ve got it exactly.

34 BigPapa  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:27:15am

It’s all about the sanctity and purity of the child, without sin (because they’re not born yet).

But once the child, unless they have a job and can support themselves, fuck em.

35 Mike Lamb  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:29:52am

It’s awfully nice of him that he’s willing to “consult” with the parents…

36 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:32:30am

re: #30 jaunte

Unless it might be a terror baby.
nydailynews.com

Next time he spouts off about this, someone should ask him, “But Rep. Gohmert - what if the baby is a terror baby?” Just to watch his head explode.

37 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:33:33am

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Next time he spouts off about this, someone should ask him, “But Rep. Gohmert - what if the baby is a terror baby?” Just to watch his head explode.

Eh, he’d probably just want it taken away from the parents and raised in a good Christian home.

38 BigPapa  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:35:18am

… but if somebody needs help, not the evil government because socialism.

Send them to a good church. Just not a Muslim one.

39 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:35:26am

re: #37 calochortus

Eh, he’d probably just want it taken away from the parents and raised in a good Christian home.

I dunno - a guy who’s afraid of Terror Babies probably thinks it’s innate.

40 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:36:18am

re: #39 GeneJockey

I dunno - a guy who’s afraid of Terror Babies probably thinks it’s innate.

It’s in the soul, don’t you know.

41 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:37:13am

re: #33 stabby

Great choice of a quote, you’ve got it exactly.

I love that quote since it points out one of the main dangers you face when dealing with idealists and fanatics. A political or moral “point” may end up equating to a pile of real human suffering.

42 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:37:28am

by the way…when Google isn’t responding, lots of websites take forever to load…this one included.

43 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:37:28am

re: #40 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

It’s in the soul, don’t you know.

Doesn’t baptism help?

44 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:38:04am

Now, turdball wants to organize marches on every state capital. Plus he is “imprisoned for exercising his 1st ame.ndment rights” or as everyone else calls it, acting like a jack ass and deliberately baiting cops who were ignoring a bunch of pot smokers until Kokesh started screaming at everyone to start smoking weed.

45 allegro  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:39:03am

re: #39 GeneJockey

I dunno - a guy who’s afraid of Terror Babies probably thinks it’s innate.

But you should wait to rip it apart after its born.

46 allegro  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:39:29am

re: #45 allegro

But you should wait to rip it apart after its born.

Oops, forgot the ///////

47 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:43:22am

re: #46 allegro

Oops, forgot the ///////

Use the pencil Luke. Use the pencil.

48 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:45:38am

49 Skip Intro  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:48:39am
But it just seems like, it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.

OK, what exactly is he suggesting here?

50 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:49:40am

re: #49 Skip Intro

OK, what exactly is he suggesting here?

Wait until the brain dead child is born before deciding whether or not to have the abortion.

51 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:50:05am

re: #49 Skip Intro

OK, what exactly is he suggesting here?

That he doesn’t trust doctors or science to tell him about anything he can’t personally see.

52 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:51:15am

re: #51 calochortus

That he doesn’t trust doctors or science to tell him about anything he can’t personally see.

Well, after all - Science still believe in Global Warming and Evolution.
//

53 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:53:36am

re: #52 GeneJockey

Well, after all - Science still believe in Global Warming and Evolution.
//

We need to stick to the tried and true. The earth is flat! The space program was a hoax! Airplane travel is an elaborate deception!

54 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:54:18am

re: #53 calochortus

We need to stick to the tried and true. The earth is flat! The space program was a hoax! Airplane travel is an elaborate deception!

Oklahoma and the concept of land east of the Mississippi is a myth!

55 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:55:53am

re: #54 Feline Fearless Leader

Oklahoma and the concept of land east of the Mississippi is a myth!

Good, and maybe he’s a myth too?

56 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:56:14am

E.W. Jackson: I Made Controversial Remarks ‘As A Minister, Not As A Candidate’

Jackson told The Daily Caller in a story published Friday that those comments must be taken in context and, moreover, they were made when he was holding an entirely different job. Those remarks were made, Jackson said in an email to The DC, in his “role as a minister, not as a candidate.”

Well, that makes everything Okay. Glad he could clear that up for us. Whew, I guess that is all settled now.

Now if the candidate could fuck right off, we can get back to business.

57 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:57:10am

re: #55 calochortus

Good, and maybe he’s a myth too?

You mean Gohmert is a WOMAN?!?!

58 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 11:58:18am

re: #57 Kragar

You mean Gohmert is a WOMAN?!?!

Nope, a nut.

59 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:00:30pm

re: #57 Kragar

You mean Gohmert is a WOMAN?!?!

Ewwww.

60 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:01:26pm

When idiots say stupid things, you want to say that it just doesn’t matter… unless that idiot is a congressman.

xkcd.com

61 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:02:29pm

And just when you think Louie Gohmert couldn’t be a bigger ass, he does something like this and TOTALLY redeems himself.

62 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:03:16pm

re: #56 Kragar

E.W. Jackson: I Made Controversial Remarks ‘As A Minister, Not As A Candidate’

Well, that makes everything Okay. Glad he could clear that up for us. Whew, I guess that is all settled now.

Now if the candidate could fuck right off, we can get back to business.

That’s his defense? Words spoken by someone who knows his party didn’t vet him and knows he has a chance to bring down the whole ticket come November.

63 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:03:30pm

re: #57 Kragar

You mean Gohmert is a WOMAN?!?!

“What I say is only the truth: As a man, you are barely passable, but as a woman, you are a dog.”

64 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:03:56pm

Okay…google’s back for our office, and as such, those bits of the internet that have google apis on them (which, apparently, is a shitload..oh, and yahoo still sucks).

65 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:04:26pm

I feel bad for Mrs. Gohmert and any other women in this primitive freak’s family. I really do.

66 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:05:33pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

I feel bad for Mrs. Gohmert and any other women in this primitive freak’s family. I really do.

“You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.”

67 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:06:23pm

More articles on California’s healt care costs as a result of Obamacare.

washingtonpost.com

Republicans are fucked on this issue. I pity any Democrat who isn’t smart enough to use Obamacare as a bludgeon on their opponent at every step of their campaign. This could be a surge election of tidal proportions in 2014.

68 engineer cat  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:07:24pm

re: #60 stabby

When idiots say stupid things, you want to say that it just doesn’t matter… unless that idiot is a congressman.

xkcd.com

i just comfort myself with the thought that congress is an illusion created by god to fool unbelievers into thinking that we live in a democracy

69 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:08:32pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

That’s his defense? Words spoken by someone who knows his party didn’t vet him and knows he has a chance to bring down the whole ticket come November.

Doesn’t that just open him up to now be interviewed on what his positions are on all these issues “as a candidate”? Basically completes the process of him being a campaign commercial generator for the opposition. While at the same time alienating the nut base if he suddenly starts backing away from his previous statements.

70 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:09:13pm

re: #67 darthstar

More articles on California’s healt care costs as a result of Obamacare.

washingtonpost.com

Republicans are fucked on this issue. I pity any Democrat who isn’t smart enough to use Obamacare as a bludgeon on their opponent at every step of their campaign. This could be a surge election of tidal proportions in 2014.

They fucked themselves the minute they acted like there was no way that “strict constructionist” Roberts would disagree with them on the issue. And the more ACA/Obamacare becomes part of society and people see that the Republicans/Tea Party lied to them about the reality of what it is, they’re going to be pissed. Before you know it, you’ll have Republicans running on supporting it or at least claiming that their party didn’t do everything possible to get it into law. Kind of like how British conservatives were forced to embrace their healthcare system even after they fought Attlee along the way.

71 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:11:05pm

re: #69 Feline Fearless Leader

Doesn’t that just open him up to now be interviewed on what his positions are on all these issues “as a candidate”? Basically completes the process of him being a campaign commercial generator for the opposition. While at the same time alienating the nut base if he suddenly starts backing away from his previous statements.

I really have no idea. It’s like the VA Republican Party thinks it can nominate these whackos- the reverend’s running mate and current AG Cuccinneli is pretty wacko too and the Republican AG candidate is as well. They seem to think they can nominate these dinosaurs and their crazy stances shouldn’t be called out. It really is a shame that Terry McAulliffe is the Dem nominee because if it were anyone else even Creigh Deeds, I think this would have the makings of a Democratic landslide.

72 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:11:53pm
73 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:12:10pm

re: #66 GeneJockey

“You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.”

True for Mrs. G., but his daughters were born into the family. No choice for them.

74 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:12:34pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

They fucked themselves the minute they acted like there was no way that “strict constructionist” Roberts would disagree with them on the issue. And the more ACA/Obamacare becomes part of society and people see that the Republicans/Tea Party lied to them about the reality of what it is, they’re going to be pissed. Before you know it, you’ll have Republicans running on supporting it or at least claiming that their party didn’t do everything possible to get it into law. Kind of like how British conservatives were forced to embrace their healthcare system even after they fought Attlee along the way.

Good luck to them with that strategy. 37 repeal votes say otherwise.

75 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:13:27pm

re: #73 calochortus

True for Mrs. G., but his daughters were born into the family. No choice for them.

That’s true.

76 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:14:36pm

a/k/a Prolotherapy —the treatment I get for my Ehlers Danlos


Sugar water injections may help ease knee pain

77 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:15:28pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

They fucked themselves the minute they acted like there was no way that “strict constructionist” Roberts would disagree with them on the issue. And the more ACA/Obamacare becomes part of society and people see that the Republicans/Tea Party lied to them about the reality of what it is, they’re going to be pissed. Before you know it, you’ll have Republicans running on supporting it or at least claiming that their party didn’t do everything possible to get it into law. Kind of like how British conservatives were forced to embrace their healthcare system even after they fought Attlee along the way.

Reality isn’t going to stop the GOP from claiming Obamacare is evil. It may be allowed fade into obscurity over time, but in the near future the faithful will demand opposition to health care for people who are not them.

78 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:16:28pm

re: #67 darthstar

States that have sought to implement the programs to the best of their capabilities will find that it benefits their citizens most. Those that are doing their absolute worst to thwart its implementation will still see benefits, just not as many people being able to take advantage of the program.

But the media will feed the notion that things are going poorly even as the people who actually need insurance will find that this is a major improvement over the pre-PPACA system. The media will focus on all the problems, because that’s what they think will sell papers or advertising.

And the GOP is hoping that everyone ignores the fact that the PPACA provides access to insurance to millions who otherwise would be without insurance at all - and when they need care would stress an overworked hospital ER system that shouldn’t be the first line of primary care for people.

79 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:16:41pm

re: #74 darthstar

Good luck to them with that strategy. 37 repeal votes say otherwise.

Of course. Eventually is my point. They really fucked up banking that the Roberts court would overturn ACA. I still laugh thinking about how cocky Mitt Romney was on the issue. He even said that Obama’s not going to like the news when he woke up the next day. Well we all know what happened. Still think Obama wins even if ACA is found unconstituional but the Republicans placed their whole bet that it would be without any contingency that it would be found constitutional and they fucked themselves doing that.

80 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:17:10pm

re: #76 FemNaziBitch

Hope it works for you.

81 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:17:52pm

re: #77 calochortus

Reality isn’t going to stop the GOP from claiming Obamacare is evil. It may be allowed fade into obscurity over time, but in the near future the faithful will demand opposition to health care for people who are not them.

Right, in the short run, you’re still going to see Michele Bachmann and others throw up hail marys to get it overturned. But in the long run as the American people realize that this law isn’t the evil tyranny that the GOP and Tea Party made it out to be, the GOP will try to co-opt it. Why? Because they’re that shameful.

82 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:18:45pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

ObamaCare’s Achilles’ heel has always been that insurance rates skyrocketed after it was passed.

You can say that it was because the law says that it will regulate insurance rates, but not for a few years so all of the companies jacked up their rates while they still could - and perhaps, just perhaps, they had no actual need to raise them at all. After all, it was originally claimed that ACA would not make them less profitable because it would widen their base in a balanced way.

But the way the law was written, the rates went way up, and although the government had the authority to challenge some of the rises, they didn’t or perhaps only did once.

Rates going up makes the “I got mine” crowd livid and the “I got mine” crowd is 80% of the Republican base and 1/2 of the public.

If you don’t think that ACA could be repealed, you’re fooling yourself. Almost half of the public is still livid and 70% of Republicans are.

83 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:18:57pm

re: #80 calochortus

Hope it works for you.

It’s the only thing that does. I think everyone will be seeing more of it as it is the only alternative to pain treatment for those who are not candidates for surgery and don’t want to be on pain meds.

It’s a very positive step in health care, IMHO.

84 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:20:11pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

They fucked themselves the minute they acted like there was no way that “strict constructionist” Roberts would disagree with them on the issue. And the more ACA/Obamacare becomes part of society and people see that the Republicans/Tea Party lied to them about the reality of what it is, they’re going to be pissed. Before you know it, you’ll have Republicans running on supporting it or at least claiming that their party didn’t do everything possible to get it into law. Kind of like how British conservatives were forced to embrace their healthcare system even after they fought Attlee along the way.

Indeed, a number of Republicans have said that it’s important to repeal it before people ‘get used to it’, and start benefiting, because then they’ll never want to give it up. I consider that a tacit acknowledgement that most people want affordable, universal healthcare and not the nonsense we have now.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:20:31pm

re: #49 Skip Intro

OK, what exactly is he suggesting here?

He thinks that the parents will immediately fall in love with the birthed gift of life and won’t be able to look at it without feeling guilty for daring to even have considered aborting. And because “real parents” will do anything to save their child and extend its life as long as possible if only they see that actual child with their own eyes.
Gohmert obviously has no concept of the many aspects of heart-rending grief, nor does he care.
Also, I don’t think “empathy” means what he thinks it does.

86 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:20:53pm

re: #81 HappyWarrior

Right, in the short run, you’re still going to see Michele Bachmann and others throw up hail marys to get it overturned. But in the long run as the American people realize that this law isn’t the evil tyranny that the GOP and Tea Party made it out to be, the GOP will try to co-opt it. Why? Because they’re that shameful.

True. On a related note, there was a discussion of Texas turning down federal funds to expand Medicaid on FR. At least 2 people claiming to be Texas residents and poor endorsed the idea of not providing health care. I don’t know if they were young and healthy, considered themselves poor, but did have insurance through their employment, or were just nuts.

87 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:20:59pm

re: #82 stabby

continued.

The anger over rates going up is why anti-ObamaCare has legs. It’s why the Republicans vote to repeal it over and over and over.

It’s not ONLY racism and hatred for the poor. That combined with inconveniencing people with higher rates, and they’re ready to punch dogs in the face.

88 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:21:10pm

re: #84 GeneJockey

Indeed, a number of Republicans have said that it’s important to repeal it before people ‘get used to it’, and start benefiting, because then they’ll never want to give it up. I consider that a tacit acknowledgement that most people want affordable, universal healthcare and not the nonsense we have now.

We need to get tape of those fuckers. It’ll make for great advertisements…for their opponents.

89 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:21:48pm

re: #87 stabby

continued.

The anger over rates going up is why anti-ObamaCare has legs. It’s why the Republicans vote to repeal it over and over and over.

It’s not ONLY racism and hatred for the poor. That combined with inconveniencing people with higher rates, and they’re ready to punch dogs in the face.

How many times have they voted for repeal or dismemberment? Seems like an awful lot of time and money have been spent for naught.

90 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:22:28pm

re: #85 Backwoods_Sleuth

He thinks that the parents will immediately fall in love with the birthed gift of life and won’t be able to look at it without feeling guilty for daring to even have considered aborting. And because “real parents” will do anything to save their child and extend its life as long as possible if only they see that actual child with their own eyes.

Because the mother doesn’t have an, umm, intimate enough relationship with the fetus before birth?

91 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:22:47pm

re: #89 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, but the moment they have a majority and a president it’s fucking gone.

That will happen eventually if the future is like the past.

92 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:23:35pm

re: #91 stabby

Yeah, but the moment they have a majority and a president it’s fucking gone.

That will happen eventually if the future is like the past.

WEll, parts of the legislation will be so far entrenched it will be difficult to totally repeal. It’s all rhetoric anyway. IMHO. I tend to ignore it.

93 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:23:41pm

re: #82 stabby

Rates skyrocketed before it was passed too. Most people didn’t notice because their employers were eating the extra cost. Those of us paying for our own, noticed.

94 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:23:45pm

So it’s a question of time.

How many years of staying out of power is enough for them to give up on repeal?

Well, we will find out.

95 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:24:36pm

re: #89 FemNaziBitch

How many times have they voted for repeal or dismemberment? Seems like an awful lot of time and money have been spent for naught.

I think 38 last count. And honestly I wish the Democrats would call them out on it more. I know ACA is still controversial but they can win the PR battle by saying “Look, we passed this thing. Our opponents appealed all the way to the Supreme Court on the constitutionality of it. And the court ruled and including the Chief Justice, an appointee of the last Republican president found that it was constitutional. We have other challenges.”

96 Political Atheist  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:24:47pm

Geez, can we maybe prove the existence of a soul by looking at Gohmert and noting it’s distinct absence…? ///

What A Bastard

97 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:25:09pm

re: #93 calochortus

Was some of that in anticipation of it being passed, or are you only talking about the incremental rises over the years?

98 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:25:09pm

re: #91 stabby

Yeah, but the moment they have a majority and a president it’s fucking gone.

That will happen eventually if the future is like the past.

Nope…what they’ll do is make a small modification to it(possibly make it a better law than it already is) and then take credit for it and use it to hold their majority so they can fuck over Americans in every other way possible.

99 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:25:10pm

re: #94 stabby

So it’s a question of time.

How many years of staying out of power is enough for them to give up on repeal?

Well, we will find out.

They’ll just change the wording. Whatever they do, it boils down to reducing payments (benefits) to citizens and spending it on their pet projects. Whether it is healthcare or FEMA.

100 Political Atheist  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:26:17pm

re: #82 stabby

ObamaCare’s Achilles’ heel has always been that insurance rates skyrocketed after it was passed.

You can say that it was because the law says that it will regulate insurance rates, but not for a few years so all of the companies jacked up their rates while they still could - and perhaps, just perhaps, they had no actual need to raise them at all. After all, it was originally claimed that ACA would not make them less profitable because it would widen their base in a balanced way.

But the way the law was written, the rates went way up, and although the government had the authority to challenge some of the rises, they didn’t or perhaps only did once.

Rates going up makes the “I got mine” crowd livid and the “I got mine” crowd is 80% of the Republican base and 1/2 of the public.

If you don’t think that ACA could be repealed, you’re fooling yourself. Almost half of the public is still livid and 70% of Republicans are.

After it passed and before it’s actual impact. Reminds me of oil speculators when they can try to think a hurricane might approach the gulf oil platforms.

101 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:26:18pm

re: #95 HappyWarrior

I think 38 last count. And honestly I wish the Democrats would call them out on it more. I know ACA is still controversial but they can win the PR battle by saying “Look, we passed this thing. Our opponents appealed all the way to the Supreme Court on the constitutionality of it. And the court ruled and including the Chief Justice, an appointee of the last Republican president found that it was constitutional. We have other challenges.”

Rather well past the “ridiculous” stage —no?

102 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:27:41pm

re: #98 darthstar

Nope…what they’ll do is make a small modification to it(possibly make it a better law than it already is) and then take credit for it and use it to hold their majority so they can fuck over Americans in every other way possible.

OH BULLSHIT!

You’re a Republican and a dupe. They will fuck the country over so badly you can’t imagine. They’ve been promising the most disastrous policies possible since America broke their hearts by electing a Black Panther whose Muslim name is Barack! They’re gonna do what they promised and they’re gonna turn the US into Peru. The child mortality rate will be worse than Mexico.

103 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:28:05pm

re: #97 stabby

Was some of that in anticipation of it being passed, or are you only talking about the incremental rises over the years?

Insurance rates have been skyrocketing long before the ACA was even conceived.

104 erik_t  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:28:25pm

Someone needs to step back and take some deep, calming breaths.

105 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:28:51pm

re: #103 Varek Raith

Insurance rates have been skyrocketing long before the ACA was even conceived.

I remember things changing about 1990 with the advent of HMO’s in my workplace. Things have just gotten more and more confusing and expensive ever since.

106 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:28:51pm

re: #97 stabby

Was some of that in anticipation of it being passed, or are you only talking about the incremental rises over the years?

It was going up 5-10% a year (compounding annually, of course) over the previous few years. And that was after another company quit writing our previous individual policy (through a professional organization.) Apparently they like to do that every few years. That way you have to reapply for a different policy and if you’re healthy, that’s great, if not, sorry-you have a pre-existing condition. We were healthy, but didn’t reapply with that company.

107 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:29:35pm

Tea Party Nation: ‘E.W. Jackson Represents the Future of the Conservative Movement’

According to Tea Party Nation, “the future of conservative movement” is found in a candidate who believes gay people are “sick” and “degenerate” and that Planned Parenthood is worse than the Ku Klux Klan. In an email today, the group’s president Judson Phillips said that E.W. Jackson is under criticism because his anti-gay comments “are popular in the black community” and “that shocks and offends liberals.”

Phillips compared the Virginia GOP’s candidate for Lt. Governor to Ronald Reagan and bragged that “the 2013 ticket for the Republicans in Virginia represents the victory of the Tea Party over the establishment.”

108 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:29:36pm

re: #90 calochortus

Because the mother doesn’t have an, umm, intimate enough relationship with the fetus before birth?

That’s how it is in Gohmert-land. Mothers obviously don’t know any better…

109 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:29:36pm

re: #101 FemNaziBitch

Rather well past the “ridiculous” stage —no?

I honestly thought one repeal attempt was ridiculous. Obama threw a lot of political capital into getting the law passed and then upheld by the USSC. He wasn’t going to sign a repeal and why the House Republicans who continue to pass a repeal even if for symbolic reasons keep on doing that, I don’t get. I guess they think the American people will think that they can sell it as the president not being cooperative but no President is going to sign a repeal of something that he worked his ass off on like Obama did with healthcare reform. It’d be like expecting Bush to sign a repeal of the Bush tax cuts. Just not happening. And honestly even if they do get a Republican president and senate, the Senate Dems will fight a repeal I imagine.

110 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:30:30pm

re: #87 stabby

Except that rates have been going up, pre, during, and post enactment of the PPACA. The rates have been going up at a somewhat lower rate than before Obamacare was enacted, but that appears to be partly due to the recession and the patent expirations on some major drugs - meaning that generic alternatives are being prescribed instead of the name-brand versions at a higher cost.

For instance, take a drug like Arimidex. It’s a cancer medication that used to cost about $1000 per period (1 month supply). There’s now a generic alternative, so the cost for the name-brand is a fraction of that amount, and the generic is $25-75 a month.

111 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:30:40pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

I honestly thought one repeal attempt was ridiculous. Obama threw a lot of political capital into getting the law passed and then upheld by the USSC. He wasn’t going to sign a repeal and why the House Republicans who continue to pass a repeal even if for symbolic reasons keep on doing that, I don’t get. I guess they think the American people will think that they can sell it as the president not being cooperative but no President is going to sign a repeal of something that he worked his ass off on like Obama did with healthcare reform. It’d be like expecting Bush to sign a repeal of the Bush tax cuts. Just not happening. And honestly even if they do get a Republican president and senate, the Senate Dems will fight a repeal I imagine.

Again, I think it’s all campaign rhetoric and ammunition to use in 2016 and beyond.

112 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:31:05pm

re: #107 Kragar

Tea Party Nation: ‘E.W. Jackson Represents the Future of the Conservative Movement’

Setting the bar pretty low to compare Jackson to Reagan eh Judson and this is coming from someone who makes no bones about the fact that he strongly dislikes Ronald Reagan.

113 BigPapa  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:31:53pm

Darth got called a Republican?

I’ve seen it all.

114 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:32:28pm

re: #110 lawhawk

Ah, perhaps.

I should have known.

Ok, all the news reports of insurance rates going up 50% after ACA are lies and out of context.

Sure, that’s possible too. The right is nothing if not dishonest.

Does anyone have a source?

115 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:32:47pm

Another reason that individual plans have been going up is that fewer healthy people are buying insurance, in part because of the high cost. That means a higher percentage of policy holders have medical problems. Often very expensive medical problems that make insurance a necessity.

116 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:33:02pm

re: #113 BigPapa

Darth got called a Republican?

I’ve seen it all.

The dupe part though ,,, that was okay !!!
/

117 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:33:48pm

re: #109 HappyWarrior

It’s easier to hyperventilate and bloviate over a dead-end vote than to actually govern and get work done.

They’d rather vote endlessly to repeal the PPACA, because trying to figure out how to really curb spending (replacing the sequester) is tough when most people really understand that there are core government spending that needs to get done, and slicing and dicing spending isn’t how it’s done. But you’ve got anarcho-GOPers who want to see the system blown up by claiming that after starving key government programs that government doesn’t work as a justification for further cuts.

118 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:34:08pm

Well, if you consider that, for many, health insurance thru one’s employer used to be free —the costs have gone up considerably more than 100%

119 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:34:50pm

re: #117 lawhawk

It’s easier to hyperventilate and bloviate over a dead-end vote than to actually govern and get work done.

They’d rather vote endlessly to repeal the PPACA, because trying to figure out how to really curb spending (replacing the sequester) is tough when most people really understand that there are core government spending that needs to get done, and slicing and dicing spending isn’t how it’s done. But you’ve got anarcho-GOPers who want to see the system blown up by claiming that after starving key government programs that government doesn’t work as a justification for further cuts.

“Those who will not work, shall not eat”

Because it’s just that simple

*spit*

120 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:36:17pm
121 Stanghazi  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:36:28pm

re: #102 stabby

OH BULLSHIT!

You’re a Republican and a dupe. They will fuck the country over so badly you can’t imagine. They’ve been promising the most disastrous policies possible since America broke their hearts by electing a Black Panther whoes Muslim name is Barack! They’re gonna do what they promised and they’re gonna turn the US into Peru. The child mortality rate will be worse than Mexico.

hahahaha.

That’s all I got.

122 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:36:31pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

The dupe part though ,,, that was okay !!!
/

Uhuh.

And if the Ryan/Romney tax plan passed what would have happened to Medicare, Medicaid etc?

The government would be BROKE.

Yeah, they want the poor dying, old and newborn!

And bullshit about “they would have improved it” is the dumbest lie I’ve ever read on this blog.

I can’t believe you fools are defending him!

123 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:37:16pm

Ann Coulter helping with the GOP rebranding:

Marco Rubio’s amnesty bill will soon make it 80 million. First, there are at least 11 million illegal immigrants, a majority from Mexico, who will be instantly legalized. Then we’ll get their entire extended families under our chain migration system.

I wouldn’t want that many Japanese! I wouldn’t want that many Dutch (not that there are that many Dutch)! Why do we have to become a different country? Was there a vote when the country decided to turn itself into Mexico? No other country has ever just decided to turn itself into another country like this.

Too many Latinos…yeah, that message will resonate well with the voters.

124 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:38:10pm

re: #122 stabby

I need a scoresheet

Which ‘fools’ are defending “him”!?!?!?!

And for that matter, who is “him”???

125 StephenMeansMe  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:38:18pm

Huh. Gohmert voted for the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act, a bill that prohibits the transportation of a minor across state lines for the purposes of an abortion without the consent of the minor’s parents. It could be the wiki-editors’ fault, but that sounds a lot like the description of the Fugitive Slave Act.

The only thing that would piss me off more than this “doctors’ expertise can’t match the ‘educated opinion’ of seeing your dying infant in front of you” is if Gohmert busted out the (Catholic?) doctrine of “redemptive suffering.” Gah, that makes me fume every time I hear about it.

126 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:38:25pm

re: #105 FemNaziBitch

I remember things changing about 1990 with the advent of HMO’s in my workplace. Things have just gotten more and more confusing and expensive ever since.

That’s roughly about the same time I noticed health insurance going crazy. Premiums and deductibles were skyrocketing while actual coverage was decreasing. Every single thing had to be pre-approved by the insurance company/HMO and providers had to be part of the approved provider list. And the pre-existing condition nonsense became insane.
THAT was and still is the supposed “death panels”, not ACA.

127 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:38:32pm

re: #114 stabby

forbes.com

That’s the cost for a family of four.

It’s doubled from 2002 to 2012. It went from about $9.2k in 2002 to $15k in 2008.

That link is chock full of charts and data showing that the increases didn’t accelerate after PPACA was enacted, and that costs have been on the rise well before Obama was elected. The GOP is simply attempting to combine the long term trending increase with any increases that people may see now that the PPACA’s main provisions are about to take effect.

It’s a blatant attempt to confuse and obfuscate causes and trends.

128 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:38:39pm

Without infrastructure, trade stops or is severely hampered.

If the Whacko’s really, really care more about business than Power and Control, they’d be paying more attention to bridges and such than Obamacare.

American Society of Civil Engineers.

Then again, they are probably divying up the roads to sell them to private corporations. Which will then in turn charge tolls for profit.

Imagine how that would work out.

129 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:38:41pm

re: #121 Stanghazi

hahahaha.

That’s all I got.

Here you go.

130 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:39:08pm

re: #124 sattv4u2

I need a scoresheet

Which ‘fools’ are defending “him”!?!?!?!

And for that matter, who is “him”???

And not only that, which ones are dupes and which are fools?

Are they on the same team??
Do they wear different color jerseys??

131 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:39:12pm

re: #102 stabby

OH BULLSHIT!

You’re a Republican and a dupe. They will fuck the country over so badly you can’t imagine. They’ve been promising the most disastrous policies possible since America broke their hearts by electing a Black Panther whose Muslim name is Barack! They’re gonna do what they promised and they’re gonna turn the US into Peru. The child mortality rate will be worse than Mexico.

WTF? Did you just call me a Republican? I’m hurt. Truly. There are things Republicans can do that will sell with enough of the public that they’ll get away with it, but repealing Obamacare isn’t one of them.

And no upding for originality for calling me a Republican.

132 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:39:15pm

re: #123 darthstar

Ann Coulter helping with the GOP rebranding:

Too many Latinos…yeah, that message will resonate well with the voters.

I for one would welcome more Belgians. But yeah you got to love that rebranding. Yet Ann will keep on saying stuff like this and being a welcome guest at numerous conservative conventions or if she’s not, it won’t be because of this, it will be because they perceive her as too gay friendly. Got to love modern conservatism.

133 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:40:19pm

re: #120 Charles Johnson

All together now: Awwwwwwww.

134 abolitionist  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:40:25pm

re: #120 Charles Johnson

In future, Koala’s will ponder how to get those wheely-footed Aquarius creatures to stop and dispense refreshments.

135 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:40:31pm

Once again
And if the Ryan/Romney tax plan passed what would have happened to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, ACA etc?

The Republicans have based all of their promises on a tax policy that will make the federal government totally broke.

The even have plans to bait and switch Medicare and Social security for the NOTHING that will be left to pay for them by “privatizing” them.

All this talk about how they somehow don’t mean anything they say and will “improve” ACA is the dumbest thing ever printed on this web site!

136 Eventual Carrion  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:40:42pm

Just got bio-security fingerprinted for facility and department access doors. So if anyone wants access to my facility they can have it when they cut off my cold, dead fingers.

137 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:40:42pm

re: #123 darthstar

Ann Coulter helping with the GOP rebranding:

Too many Latinos…yeah, that message will resonate well with the voters.

138 Eventual Carrion  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:41:49pm

re: #5 FemNaziBitch

and the woman? How does she fit into all this.

WTF?

Incubator #435632

139 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:42:22pm

re: #134 abolitionist

In future, Koala’s will ponder how to get those wheely-footed Auarius creatures to stop and dispense refreshments.

Its a trap. First, they get humans used to getting closer to them, then wham!

Drop Bears.

140 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:42:51pm

re: #135 stabby

I think maybe you misunderstood something that was said here. No one I’ve read appears to be supporting the repeal of the ACA.

141 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:43:25pm

re: #127 lawhawk

forbes.com

That’s the cost for a family of four.

It’s doubled from 2002 to 2012. It went from about $9.2k in 2002 to $15k in 2008.

That link is chock full of charts and data showing that the increases didn’t accelerate after PPACA was enacted, and that costs have been on the rise well before Obama was elected. The GOP is simply attempting to combine the long term trending increase with any increases that people may see now that the PPACA’s main provisions are about to take effect.

It’s a blatant attempt to confuse and obfuscate causes and trends.

Fascinating. The Democrats need to put that in all of their adverts.

They can say that they’ve controlled the cost of health care, where the Republicans would have done nothing!

142 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:44:37pm

re: #135 stabby

Once again
And if the Ryan/Romney tax plan passed what would have happened to Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, ACA etc?

The Ryan/Romney plan is a direct response to having an African American president who is a Democrat. It’s not even something most Republicans voting for it even believe. They’re just being extreme because they’re in the minority and they know Democrats will meet them half way (at which point they take five giant steps backward and start over). It’s just manipulative petty behavior and should be acknowledged as such.

Yes, today’s Republicans are idiots. But they’ll all be gone in a few years once people understand that they’re not healthy for the country…and that includes their leaders like Boehner and Cantor in the House and McConnell in the Senate.

Now take a breath and chill the fuck out.

143 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:44:49pm

Oh geez.

144 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:44:53pm

re: #141 stabby

Trouble is, people don’t realize what it was/is costing their employer, so all they’ve seen is the recent increases as more costs are being passed along.

145 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:44:53pm

re: #98 darthstar

Nope…what they’ll do is make a small modification to it(possibly make it a better law than it already is) and then take credit for it and use it to hold their majority so they can fuck over Americans in every other way possible.

I have to say that the concept of Republicans improving any legislation they get their grubby meat hooks into these days is laughable.

Especially if that legislation is Obamacare, which they hate with the fire of a thousand suns.

146 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:45:02pm

re: #139 Kragar

Its a trap. First, they get humans used to getting closer to them, then wham!

Drop Bears.

Cuddly!

147 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:45:51pm

re: #142 darthstar

I have one word for the claim that the Republicans would go back to being responsible when back in power. BULLSHIT!

I would repeat it 1000 times but the comment would be deleted.

You are so full of it.

148 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:46:29pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

I have to say that the concept of Republicans improving any legislation they get their grubby meat hooks into these days is laughable.

Especially if that legislation is Obamacare, which they hate with the fire of a thousand suns.

When/IF they get a double majority again, they’ll be so afraid of losing it that they’ll be far more moderate than they are now…that’s all I was saying. Don’t go stabby on me and call me a Republican dupe though…my self-esteem is damaged as it is.

149 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:47:02pm

Wow!
Anyone else see that point go supersonic over stabby’s head???

150 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:47:14pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

I have to say that the concept of Republicans improving any legislation they get their grubby meat hooks into these days is laughable.

Especially if that legislation is Obamacare, which they hate with the fire of a thousand suns.

They did that with the New Deal. Now whether they would actually improve it or not is another question but I don’t think it’s prosperous to think that once ACA survives repeal after repeal and it becomes widely accepted in society that the Republicans would try to use that approach with the issue. Can’t speak for DS but that’s what I was getting. I don’t think they would actually improve ACA but I do think they’re cynical enough to try to eventually act like they never raised the fit they did about it especially if the Tea Party continues to lose influence.

151 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:48:10pm

re: #147 stabby

I have one word for the claim that the Republicans would go back to being responsible when back in power. BULLSHIT!

I would repeat it 1000 times but the comment would be deleted.

You are so full of it.

I have faith in humans. No, I wouldn’t trust a Republican with your sister’s uterus, but this ultra-conservative streak is going to fizzle out in a couple of years. Mark my words. It’s already happening on things like Gay Marriage.

152 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:48:23pm

re: #146 darthstar

Cuddly!

Then you have the North American Drop Bear

153 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:48:24pm

re: #142 darthstar

Yes, today’s Republicans are idiots. But they’ll all be gone in a few years once people understand that they’re not healthy for the country…and that includes their leaders like Boehner and Cantor in the House and McConnell in the Senate.

I really hope you are right about this. So far, there is absolutely no evidence for Republicans returning to sanity, and there isn’t any plausible line of reasoning that would suggest such moderation is likely.

154 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:48:33pm

re: #149 Varek Raith

Wow!
Anyone else see that point go supersonic over stabby’s head???

Me, I wondering if there are any other hot buttons we can hit . .

:0

155 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:49:18pm

re: #144 calochortus

Trouble is, people don’t realize what it was/is costing their employer, so all they’ve seen is the recent increases as more costs are being passed along.

And they’re going to go ballistic now that the IRS is requiring that breakout on the employer W-2 forms. People only have a vague idea of what their health care benefits cost (combined employer/employee, since most people only care what their out-of-pocket expense is).

But we’re also going to see companies attempt to shift even more of the burden on to the employee - reducing the quality of benefits in the process. Because they can.

156 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:49:46pm

re: #154 FemNaziBitch

Someone rattle some keys or shake a bag of dry food!

157 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:50:41pm

re: #151 darthstar

I have faith in humans. No, I wouldn’t trust a Republican with your sister’s uterus, but this ultra-conservative streak is going to fizzle out in a couple of years. Mark my words. It’s already happening on things like Gay Marriage.

I’m predicting February 2017.

158 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:50:45pm

Oh, look…I’m not alone in thinking there’s a sliver of hope on the horizon.

159 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:50:59pm

re: #151 darthstar

I have faith that when a group of human beings tells you their goal is to harm you, you’re an idiot to assume that they don’t mean it.

160 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:51:10pm

It’s like performance art in action. Sort of.

But hey, I have a kitteh next to me. And get to bemoan the inability of some people to know the difference between reply and reply all.

161 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:51:15pm

re: #157 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m predicting February 2017.

If they want a shot at a sizeable minority in 2018, yes.

162 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:51:40pm

re: #150 HappyWarrior

They did that with the New Deal. Now whether they would actually improve it or not is another question but I don’t think it’s prosperous to think that once ACA survives repeal after repeal and it becomes widely accepted in society that the Republicans would try to use that approach with the issue. Can’t speak for DS but that’s what I was getting. I don’t think they would actually improve ACA but I do think they’re cynical enough to try to eventually act like they never raised the fit they did about it especially if the Tea Party continues to lose influence.

Oh yes, the GOP will absolutely pretend to be in support of these programs (e.g., their claimed ‘defense’ of medicare in the 2012 election). But the underlying agenda to completely destroy these programs isn’t going to go away, e.g., via privatization.

163 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:51:57pm

re: #155 lawhawk

And they’re going to go ballistic now that the IRS is requiring that breakout on the employer W-2 forms. People only have a vague idea of what their health care benefits cost (combined employer/employee, since most people only care what their out-of-pocket expense is).

But we’re also going to see companies attempt to shift even more of the burden on to the employee - reducing the quality of benefits in the process. Because they can.

In the way back, some large corporations started sending annual benefit statements to employees showing the costs of benefits to the company & employee. I saw one that showed an xtra $30K in untaxed income that was contributed by the employer.

I think that helped people understand how it all works.

164 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:52:57pm

re: #155 lawhawk

Yeah, I realize the reasons health insurance is linked to employment are complex, but I think it is time to end it. It is a mess for everyone. My-neighbor-the-businessman has told me how much he’d like to just write the government a check to take over healthcare for his employees.

165 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:53:08pm

re: #162 EPR-radar

Oh yes, the GOP will absolutely pretend to be in support of these programs (e.g., their claimed ‘defense’ of medicare in the 2012 election). But the underlying agenda to completely destroy these programs isn’t going to go away, e.g., via privatization.

Of course not and I share your skepticism of them evolving. The lovely Reverend Jackson after all wants to be Lt. Governor of my state and his running mate is pretty nutty too.

166 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:54:20pm

re: #159 stabby

I have faith that when a group of human beings tells you their goal is to harm you, you’re an idiot to assume that they don’t mean it.

Their goal is to survive their whacked out base right now. It’s pure survival within the Republican primary system that is creating this stupidity. They created the Tea Party because they thought tapping into good old fashioned American bigotry would galvanize their base…and it did. Except that it also shrunk their base to just those jello-mold making people so far removed from other cultures that they suspect anyone who isn’t as white as them of being a terrorist.

167 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:56:20pm

1) The Republicans have staked themselves on repeal for too long, they can’t go back. When they’re in power, bye bye goes ACA
2) Unless someone assassinates Grover Norquest and the Koch bros, they’re too committed to unsustainable tax rates for Medicaid to continue or for Medicare to be really viable. If the Republicans get back in power expect the system to be starved down and the poor left out in the cold. They’ll find a way.
3) They’ve got a generation of kids convinced that there will be no social security for them. If they get back in power, expect them to find a way to end it, because they don’t want to fund it.

168 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:56:44pm

GOP Governor Shuts Down Lawmaking Until Her Party Agrees To Expand Medicaid

Gov. Jan Brewer (R-AZ) has a message for her party: expand Medicaid — or else.

The combative GOP governor is sticking by a threat she made to veto all legislation until lawmakers resolve the 2014 state budget and pass Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion. On Thursday, Brewer proved that wasn’t just talk, vetoing five bills sent to her desk in quick succession.

“I warned that I would not sign additional measures into law until we see resolution of the two most pressing issues facing us: adoption of a fiscal 2014 state budget and plan for Medicaid,” wrote Brewer in her veto message. “It is disappointing I must demonstrate the moratorium was not an idle threat.”

169 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:56:53pm

re: #163 FemNaziBitch

In the way back, some large corporations started sending annual benefit statements to employees showing the costs of benefits to the company & employee. I saw one that showed an xtra $30K in untaxed income that was contributed by the employer.

I think that helped people understand how it all works.

In some ways, I think it is a good thing for this benefit to be clearly marked. It is a part of the income from the employer, and it’s worth knowing how much might instead be added to your salary if the employer wasn’t shelling out for your healthcare plan.

I desperately wish insurance wasn’t so tied to jobs. It’s one of the things I am most hopeful about with regards to Obamacare, because it plays a substantial role in things like retirement planning and small business opportunities.

170 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:58:16pm

re: #167 stabby

1) The Republicans have staked themselves on repeal for too long, they can’t go back. When they’re in power, bye bye goes ACA

Republicans can always go back, and they have on many issues in the past. And when they do, it’s as if they never held the original position in the first place. Their followers want to accept whatever it is they’re told to accept.

Accept it.

171 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:58:18pm

re: #166 darthstar

Their goal is to survive their whacked out base right now. It’s pure survival within the Republican primary system that is creating this stupidity. They created the Tea Party because they thought tapping into good old fashioned American bigotry would galvanize their base…and it did. Except that it also shrunk their base to just those jello-mold making people so far removed from other cultures that they suspect anyone who isn’t as white as them of being a terrorist.

You’re assuming that the politicians care about the poor and country more than their wacked out base does. There’s no evidence that they care.

You’re poisoning us with pleasant lies.

They’ve got the base they built.

172 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:58:57pm

re: #113 BigPapa

Darth got called a Republican?

I’ve seen it all.

The funniest thing is that’s not the first time Stabby did that.

Learning isn’t really his strong suit.

173 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:59:03pm

re: #168 Kragar

GOP Governor Shuts Down Lawmaking Until Her Party Agrees To Expand Medicaid

Jesus…I know stabby’s wrong on this, but I wasn’t expecting an assist from Jan Fucking Brewer.

174 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:59:19pm

re: #171 stabby

You’re assuming that the politicians care about the poor and country more than their wacked out base does. There’s no evidence that they care.

You’re poisoning us with pleasant lies.

They’ve got the base they built.

Mmm. Is it cyanide or hemlock?

175 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:59:32pm

re: #168 Kragar

The sad thing is that the PPACA actually benefits the Red States more than the Blue ones. TX, AZ, and the Deep South would all benefit more from PPACA, and yet those are the states lagging in implementing features of the program that would enhance and expand insurance coverage to those who haven’t had the coverage before. These are states with the highest percentages of uninsureds, and yet they’re the ones holding back - on partisan political grounds that are unsupported by the facts.

176 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:59:41pm

That base is the Republicans’ chosen future.

Everything they do now solidifies it toward being further right wing. That’s their direction.

177 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:59:41pm

re: #171 stabby

You’re assuming that the politicians care about the poor and country more than their wacked out base does. There’s no evidence that they care.

You’re poisoning us with pleasant lies.

They’ve got the base they built.

Here’s a pleasant lie. I think you might have a point.

178 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 12:59:54pm

re: #171 stabby

You’re assuming that the politicians care about the poor and country more than their wacked out base does. There’s no evidence that they care.

You’re poisoning us with pleasant lies.

They’ve got the base they built.

Try arguing like a normal person instead of wild accusations of ‘poisoning’.

You’ll look slightly less nuts.

179 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:00:22pm

re: #167 stabby

3) They’ve got a generation of kids convinced that there will be no social security for them. If they get back in power, expect them to find a way to end it, because they don’t want to fund it.

FWIW, I heard that same argument about Social Security back during the Reagan years. SS doesn’t have a single thing to do with the debt or deficit, other than a fund to plunder for other things, albeit with IOUs.

180 FemNaziBitch  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:00:59pm

bbl

181 Kragar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:01:18pm

re: #174 klys and whatnot

Mmm. Is it cyanide or hemlock?

Worse, fluoride in the drinking water.

182 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:01:38pm

re: #179 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s never about the truth of the accounting.

It’s about the fact that the right doesn’t want services that help the poor.

183 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:01:48pm

re: #178 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Also, the Republicans are now beginning to lose the demographic high ground. It will get harder and harder to hold a majority over time. Eventually, it will become impossible.

I hope I am coming across better.

184 Political Atheist  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:01:50pm

re: #115 calochortus

Well I call bull on that contention of theirs. Individuals pay way more than the same base group that happens to work for a big company. How the hell is it that a person who is working for a small biz with say a particular ailment is any more costly than the same guy at a big company?

One other thing about prices… A key point about single payer is a centralized system as more efficient. Well, why then do we saddle all the providers with requirement of 49 extra management/leadership/admin offices? One in each state.

185 lawhawk  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:02:06pm

re: #170 darthstar

Indeed - they went from being on the forefront for calling for an individual mandate as part of health care reform - touted by the Heritage Foundation among others, to claiming that it was unconstitutional the moment that Obama incorporated it into the Democrats’ health care plan.

186 Mike Lamb  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:03:09pm

re: #166 darthstar

Their goal is to survive their whacked out base right now. It’s pure survival within the Republican primary system that is creating this stupidity. They created the Tea Party because they thought tapping into good old fashioned American bigotry would galvanize their base…and it did. Except that it also shrunk their base to just those jello-mold making people so far removed from other cultures that they suspect anyone who isn’t as white as them of being a terrorist.

I agree that there are some folks in the GOP that are probably along for the ride in terms of dealing with the base, and would prefer a return to sanity. I think that number is exceedingly small though. I also think you are underestimating how legitimately crazy, in their own right, a number of the more recent GOP additions to Congress are. Finally, if some of these guys aren’t as crazy as they are making out in public, they’ll nevertheless have problems, because some things can’t be un-said. In short, I’m not holding my breathe that we’ll see a return to sanity.

187 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:03:20pm

re: #167 stabby

3) They’ve got a generation of kids convinced that there will be no social security for them. If they get back in power, expect them to find a way to end it, because they don’t want to fund it.

You know, I plan like I will receive no social security benefits and should therefore be prepared to fund my own retirement entirely. A lot of my friends do the same.

None of us are willing to go over to the social conservative nuthouse that is the GOP, even if we might be willing to listen to some of their financial arguments. I think that’s fairly consistent for a reasonable portion of my age group, although of course this is anecdotal evidence (albeit supported by the percentage of my age group in support of gay marriage, for example).

188 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:04:52pm

re: #185 lawhawk

The mandate was an answer to socialized medicine.

But they don’t want either. And the Heritage foundation is now at the forefront of calling the mandate not only “socialism” but “treason”. Someone counted a ton of HF bots on twitter spreading that.

The HF is just a bunch of whores for corporate hire. Weren’t they the ones with the “tobacco doesn’t cause cancer” fake scientists?

189 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:05:17pm

I have direct experience with these heartbreaking decisions.

My feeling is that people like Gohmert are cowards. They decide to NOT decide. And by giving in to the impulse to not make a decision you are being incredibly selfish. You are deciding that its more important that your own conscious feels clear than it is to make sure the fetus you are carrying doesn’t live a short, brutal, painful life. And that’s why he said that it would be better to “wait and see.” Because he wouldn’t have to deal with wrestling with all of those pesky moral questions.

Coward and loser.

190 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:05:37pm

re: #185 lawhawk

Indeed - they went from being on the forefront for calling for an individual mandate as part of health care reform - touted by the Heritage Foundation among others, to claiming that it was unconstitutional the moment that Obama incorporated it into the Democrats’ health care plan.

and nominating a former governor whose plan had same said mandate. I really don’t think it’s crazy at all to think that the right will shift face on this issue. They do it all the time. Now, I don’t think that will be now or even in the next president’s term but I can definitely see Republicans trying to co-opt ACA as their own. They do it with other issues. Why should this one be any different? HEre’s another example. The Republicans of the 30’s called the New Deal fascist. What did they do in the 40’s and early 50’s? They promised to make it more efficient first with Dewey and then Eisenhower. Those of us who believe they will do that aren’t sympathetic to the Republicans, if anything we’re deeply cynical because we know what they do on hot button issues.

191 engineer cat  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:05:44pm

imho the republican party exists to keep taxes low on corporations and wealthy people, and to do everything possible to eliminate workplace and consumer protections

they’ll never give up on trying to finagle ways to do that

it’s hard to fight a party with no scruples, and i think the gop will continue to win midterms and outmaneuver the democrats unless and until the moron wing wakes up and divorces itself from the plutocrats

but they’re, um, you know - morons

192 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:05:48pm

re: #173 darthstar

Jesus…I know stabby’s wrong on this, but I wasn’t expecting an assist from Jan Fucking Brewer.

This blew my mind too.

193 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:08:15pm

I do understand why it’s so tempting to see everything in black and white, because the shades of gray definitely provide a lot more moral complexity and uncertainty.

I just point out that wingnuts see things in black and white too.

Merely observations on behavior from getting the chance to mostly read over conversations after the fact this week, since I’ve been hanging with friends. :)

194 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:08:48pm

re: #184 Political Atheist

The sick person getting insurance through their employer doesn’t cost any less than the sick individual purchasers, however, the majority of covered employees will be healthy, whereas those same healthy folks are more likely to gamble that they won’t need expensive health care and not buy insurance if they’re paying for it directly. Therefore, a higher percentage of people with individual policies will have illnesses.

In other words: 100 employees with insurance, 1 sick=1% of policy holders
100 individuals, only 50 (an example, I don’t know the actual number) buy insurance, 1 of them is sick= 2% of policy holders or twice the cost to the insurer.
(Note that I made up the numbers, could be more or less-just an example)

edit to add: as prices go up, more and more individuals who don’t have to have insurance don’t buy it and the ratio of sick to healthy gets worse.

195 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:10:56pm

Public Service Announcement #4,172:

196 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:11:18pm

re: #195 darthstar

Public Service Announcement #4,172:

I’ll try to remember that.

197 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:12:05pm

re: #196 calochortus

I’ll try to remember that.

Keep in mind though, apparently it’s fine on any other route.

//

198 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:12:45pm

re: #192 EPR-radar

I know that governors can’t refuse free money for Medicaid without risking losing their next election.

That doesn’t prove anything.

199 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:13:01pm

re: #184 Political Atheist

One other thing about prices… A key point about single payer is a centralized system as more efficient. Well, why then do we saddle all the providers with requirement of 49 extra management/leadership/admin offices? One in each state.

I’m sorry, I’m not following you. What extra offices are we talking about, and what providers?

200 Tigger2  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:14:08pm

re: #195 darthstar

Public Service Announcement #4,172:

Of course dropping your pants to light the fuse could be quite amusing and humorous for the people around you before they stomp you out of existence.

201 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:14:21pm

re: #198 stabby

I know that governors can’t refuse free money for Medicaid without risking losing their next election.

That doesn’t prove anything.

You need to get angrier. Show us your Grrr face.

202 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:14:32pm

We can no longer afford to be amused by these assholes, they are getting too dangerous. Guys like Gohmert and Ted Cruz have already derailed a major political party and are developing enough momentum to run the whole nation off the cliff.

203 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:15:57pm

re: #198 stabby

I know that governors can’t refuse free money for Medicaid without risking losing their next election.

That doesn’t prove anything.

A prominent wingnut acknowledging any kind of reality (including election reality) is a newsworthy event these days.

204 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:16:37pm

re: #198 stabby

I know that Governors can’t refuse free money for Medicaid without risking losing their next election.

That doesn’t prove anything.

Without risking losing their next election is exactly why the GOP, if they were in power, would not repeal Obamacare. In fact, if Mitt Romney had won the election, repeal votes in the House would have ended immediately, because they know it’s a good (albeit not perfect) law.

Now stop holding your breath…you’re turning blue.

205 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:18:20pm

re: #202 Sol Berdinowitz

We can no longer afford to be amused by these assholes, they are getting too dangerous. Guys like Gohmert and Ted Cruz have already derailed a major political party and are developing enough momentum to run the whole nation off the cliff.

Here’s the thing. If the media gave them the attention they deserved instead of the attention they want (i.e. ignored them for the most part as they do the more reasonable voices in elected office because…yawn…they’re reasonable), we’d all be better off.

206 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:18:36pm

re: #204 darthstar

Ok, end of the argument.

And my response is the same as last time.

They would repeal it. Primaries count, gerrymandering counts.

Look at the polling results for Republican voters.

Also look at the polling results for Republican activists (the sort who show up to primaries).

Sorry, ACA would not survive the current GOP

207 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:19:02pm

I am totally plotting to steal one of my friend’s kittehs. She is so pretty and delicate and fluffy and a total change from my ‘dignified’ fur baby.

208 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:19:40pm

re: #207 klys and whatnot

I am totally plotting to steal one of my friend’s kittehs. She is so pretty and delicate and fluffy and a total change from my ‘dignified’ fur baby.

Is that a cat or a floor pillow?

209 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:19:41pm

“turning down money that’s already appropriated” is not the same issue as “funding medicaid”

210 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:20:03pm

re: #206 stabby

You always say “end of the argument” and then come back like 34 times when people continue a discussion, yet get cranky when someone else tries the same tactic. Why is that?

211 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:20:34pm

re: #210 klys and whatnot

Why do you bother asking?

Waste of both of our time.

212 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:20:38pm

re: #184 Political Atheist

One other thing about prices… A key point about single payer is a centralized system as more efficient. Well, why then do we saddle all the providers with requirement of 49 extra management/leadership/admin offices? One in each state.

Because we don’t have single payer. The Administration refused to even bring it up for consideration and analysis. And it’s the “providers” who wanted it this way, because single payer would have replaced and removed them from everything but the supplemental market.

213 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:20:45pm

re: #208 EPR-radar

Is that a cat or a floor pillow?

This is a reasonable question. Look, I have more than one.

214 erik_t  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:20:46pm

re: #210 klys and whatnot

You always say “end of the argument” and then come back like 34 times when people continue a discussion, yet get cranky when someone else tries the same tactic. Why is that?

Because he has to go to work now. Srsly this time.

215 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:21:18pm

re: #211 stabby

It’d only be a waste of my time if I took you seriously.

216 blueraven  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:21:48pm

re: #173 darthstar

Jesus…I know stabby’s wrong on this, but I wasn’t expecting an assist from Jan Fucking Brewer.

pragmatism often wins the day…especially for governors who have to deal with the repercussions of not expanding medicaid. The hospitals want it.

217 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:21:59pm

re: #215 klys and whatnot

How does that work?

218 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:22:26pm
219 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:22:38pm

re: #205 darthstar

Here’s the thing. If the media gave them the attention they deserved instead of the attention they want (i.e. ignored them for the most part as they do the more reasonable voices in elected office because…yawn…they’re reasonable), we’d all be better off.

They have a high entertainment value: they shout loud, they appeal to base emotions (in the literal and figurative sense) and are total political gadflies.

When Ted Cruz says he does not even trust his own Party, he makes himself a renegade hero to his alienated Tea party base and becomes a bit of a folk hero to every alienated voter throughout the country, and there are lots of them everywhere.

220 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:23:47pm

re: #206 stabby

Ok, end of the argument.

And my response is the same as last time.

They would repeal it. Primaries count, gerrymandering counts.

Look at the polling results for Republican voters.

Also look at the polling results for Republican activists (the sort who show up to primaries).

Sorry, ACA would not survive the current GOP

Ok, end of the argument.

“End of the argument” goes at the end of the argument, not at the beginning of the argument. And you can’t end the argument and then make more arguments afterward because that’s not fair, as it doesn’t allow the person you’re “arguing” with to respond…not that I’m arguing with you, nor have I been arguing with you these last several minutes. Mocking you? Yes, I have been doing a bit of that…but I dare you to show where I argued.

End of response.(see how easy that is?)

221 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:23:51pm

re: #217 stabby

Really well, actually. :)

222 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:24:37pm

re: #206 stabby

Sorry, ACA would not survive the current GOP

Darthstar isn’t talking about the current GOP. He’s talking about some hypothetical future GOP that evolves to the point it can actually win again on the national stage.

It’s funny that you just refuse to grasp this rather obvious point.

223 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:26:50pm

re: #220 darthstar

And you can’t end the argument and then make more arguments afterward because that’s not fair, as it doesn’t allow the person you’re “arguing” with to respond…

Bullsh…
End of argument means I don’t want to keep going.

I can’t stop you from posting to your hearts content unless I somehow managed to revoke your login.

Also my last point was a good one, there’s a big difference between a governor turning down funding that’s offered for free, and a congressman voting for that funding in the first place. You mock, but you have no answer to actual arguments.

Shrug

224 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:27:02pm

Well, as much fun as we’re having here, I do need to go get stuff done. Srsly.
BBL

225 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:27:42pm

re: #223 stabby

Bullsh…
End of argument means I don’t want to keep going.

And yet….

226 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:28:02pm

Counted cross stitch is fantastic until you realize you’ve made a mistake and it would involve ripping out far too many stitches so you’re left trying to figure out how to adapt and fix it.

As my friend put it, then a lot of curse words are involved. There may be a substantial contribution coming to her son’s college fund (she’s starting this policy early so hopefully enough of us can develop the habit before he really starts to learn to talk).

227 blueraven  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:28:36pm

re: #223 stabby

Bullsh…
End of argument means I don’t want to keep going.

I can’t stop you from posting to your hearts content unless I somehow managed to revoke your login.

Also my point was a good one, there’s a big difference between a governor turning down funding that’s offered for free, and a congressman voting for that funding in the first place. You mock, but you have no answer to actual arguments.

Shrug

You’re doing a great clown imitation. Bravo!

228 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:29:30pm

re: #222 goddamnedfrank

Darthstar isn’t talking about the current GOP. He’s talking about some hypothetical future GOP that evolves to the point it can actually win again on the national stage.

It’s funny that you just refuse to grasp this rather obvious point.

It is not impossible for the current form of the GOP to win again at the Federal level. If they did, they would most likely not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, so outright repeal of the ACA would not happen unless Democrats caved.

229 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:31:02pm

There are, I think, three four types of people who post to discussion threads.

People who want actual discussion and are willing to learn and interact respectfully.

People who want to cow everyone with their brilliance and receive acknowledgment of how awesome they are by converting everyone to their side of the ‘argument’.

Trolls.

People who post cat pictures.

(I probably mix 1 and 4, personally.)

230 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:31:57pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

5.

People who post Doctor Who Pics.

I am the only representative of that group.

231 geoffm33  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:31:57pm

re: #223 stabby

Bullsh…
End of argument means I don’t want to keep going.
….

You’re doing it wrong.

232 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:32:28pm

re: #228 EPR-radar

Finding a Democrat on their side is possible.

Or they could just repeal the filibuster.

233 allegro  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:33:03pm

There are, I think, three four five types of people who post to discussion threads.

Image: what_laundry.jpg

:P

234 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:34:16pm

Five! Five posts! Since we “ended” this argument.

235 Sionainn  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:34:28pm

re: #226 klys and whatnot

Counted cross stitch is fantastic until you realize you’ve made a mistake and it would involve ripping out far too many stitches so you’re left trying to figure out how to adapt and fix it.

LOL! Been there and done that.

236 erik_t  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:34:34pm

re: #234 klys and whatnot

Five! Five posts! Since we “ended” this argument.

Three, sir.

237 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:35:48pm

re: #236 erik_t

Three, sir.

I love this so much because it works on both the Monty Python level but also because only 3 of the 5 had direct connections to the argument and two were responses to me.

You win three Internets.

238 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:36:11pm

re: #228 EPR-radar

It is not impossible for the current form of the GOP to win again at the Federal level. If they did, they would most likely not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate, so outright repeal of the ACA would not happen unless Democrats caved.

By the time that happened ACA would be implemented. Repeal of ACA at that point would devastate low income wage earners, taking away a benefit many if not most of them would have been using for at least a year. I know that poorer Republicans are good at voting against their best interest, but it’s usually only when those interests are hypothetical and don’t pay for their children’s necessary surgeries.

Granted a shocking number of people are stupid enough that they fundamentally misunderstand the very tax code they’ve paid into their entire adult lives, but I have hope that once the tangible benefits of health care coverage start to sink in it’ll be damn near impossible for any future congress and administration to repeal it.

239 engineer cat  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:36:24pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: jacoj.jpg

“there was an error in the program”

“what did the error message say?”

“oh, did you need to see that?”

240 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:36:25pm

re: #201 goddamnedfrank

You need to get angrier. Show us your Grrr face.

How about a really cute kitteh milk face instead?

241 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:36:39pm

re: #223 stabby

Look, stabby, I understand the point you’re trying to make. I think we all do. It’s just that most of us are a bit more cynical about politicians than you appear to be. Like I said way above, some Republicans have openly said they fear the ACA reaching full enactment because then people will be used to it and won’t want to give it up.

And half the population isn’t ‘still livid’ about it. That’s about 30% Another 10-15% are mildly cranky about it, and maybe 5-10% don’t like it because they want something more liberal. The average intensity goes down the larger the percentage.

I agree with you that Romney, with a GOP majority in both houses, likely would have repealed the ACA. That scenario didn’t come to pass. They won’t be able to repeal it until 2017 at the earliest, and I’m hopeful that the Republicans who fear the ACA becoming popular as it is fully implemented are correct.

242 RadicalModerate  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:37:40pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

There are, I think, three four types of people who post to discussion threads.

People who want actual discussion and are willing to learn and interact respectfully.

People who want to cow everyone with their brilliance and receive acknowledgment of how awesome they are by converting everyone to their side of the ‘argument’.

Trolls.

People who post cat pictures.

(I probably mix 1 and 4, personally.)

Yes, I had to.

243 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:38:25pm

re: #223 stabby

Bullsh…
End of argument means I don’t want to keep going.

I can’t stop you from posting to your hearts content unless I somehow managed to revoke your login.

Also my last point was a good one, there’s a big difference between a governor turning down funding that’s offered for free, and a congressman voting for that funding in the first place. You mock, but you have no answer to actual arguments.

Shrug

Your last point was a good one. (pleasant lie #2)

If you don’t want to keep arguing, then simply say, “I don’t want to keep arguing, so I’m going to stop responding.” Saying “End of argument” means you’ve reached the end of your argument. Sorry, but the English language is kind of funky when it comes to things like words and their meanings.

And I’ll stop fucking with you when I get bored, like my cat, Bflat (may he rest in peace) used to do with small rodents.

244 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:38:34pm

re: #242 RadicalModerate

Yes, I had to.

I have been known to come up with really elaborate set-ups just to use that phrase.

245 RadicalModerate  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:41:02pm

re: #237 klys and whatnot

I love this so much because it works on both the Monty Python level but also because only 3 of the 5 had direct connections to the argument and two were responses to me.

You win three Internets.

Five is right out.

246 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:41:39pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don’t.

247 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:42:23pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

There are, I think, three four types of people who post to discussion threads.

People who want actual discussion and are willing to learn and interact respectfully.

People who want to cow everyone with their brilliance and receive acknowledgment of how awesome they are by converting everyone to their side of the ‘argument’.

Trolls.

People who post cat pictures.

(I probably mix 1 and 4, personally.)

I’m a 1 verging on 2 when faced with mind-numbing stupidity. That is, I’ll interact respectfully till I reach a certain point, but it’s different for different opponents.

I do, however, understand that ‘You’re stupid’ is not a cogent argument, even if it’s true.

248 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:43:04pm

re: #233 allegro

There are, I think, three four five types of people who post to discussion threads.

Image: what_laundry.jpg

:P

My dog does that…my sandy, just back from the beach and still wet dog.

249 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:43:10pm

re: #246 darthstar

There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don’t.

There are two kinds of people: Those who can extrapolate accurately from incomplete data,

250 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:43:55pm

re: #247 GeneJockey

I have, in my life, dated someone who exemplified #2.

Which probably explains why I have much less tolerance for it on the Internet than I should, especially someplace like here where the discussion is otherwise fantastic and I find it to be an awesome community that keeps me coming back.

251 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:43:56pm

re: #238 goddamnedfrank

Granted a shocking number of people are stupid enough that they fundamentally misunderstand the very tax code they’ve paid into their entire adult lives, but I have hope that once the tangible benefits of health care coverage start to sink in it’ll be damn near impossible for any future congress and administration to repeal it.

I would like to think so too, but let us not underestimate the absolute vehement ideological rage that ACA evokes in a lot of people, many of whom are looking for ways to make it fail or be inefficient, to the point of shooting themselves in the foot to accomplish that end.

And never underestimate sheer stupidity.

252 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:44:37pm

re: #238 goddamnedfrank

By the time that happened ACA would be implemented. Repeal of ACA at that point would devastate low income wage earners, taking away a benefit many if not most of them would have been using for at least a year. I know that poorer Republicans are good at voting against their best interest, but it’s usually only when those interests are hypothetical and don’t pay for their children’s necessary surgeries.

Granted a shocking number of people are stupid enough that they fundamentally misunderstand the very tax code they’ve paid into their entire lives, but I have hope that once the tangible benefits of health care coverage start to sink in it’ll be damn near impossible for any future congress and administration to repeal it.

Solid points. However, I would add that GOP opposition to these kinds of programs never really goes away. Political reality may prevent outright repeal, but there are other ways to kill things.

Prior to 9/11/01, the main agenda item for the Bushies was killing Social Security (and possibly Medicare as well) by privatizing it.

253 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:44:42pm

re: #250 klys and whatnot

I have, in my life, dated someone who exemplified #2.

That was you?
//

254 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:45:39pm

This would be so much more fun if I was drinking.

255 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:47:04pm

Okay…office fridge still had four beers left from yesterday. Smithwick’s Irish Ale will have to do.

256 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:47:12pm

re: #254 darthstar

This would be so much more fun if I was drinking.

That’s what later tonight is for.

257 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:47:32pm

WHY IS THERE NO GOOGLE DOODLE FOR MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND?

258 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:48:11pm

re: #252 EPR-radar

Solid points. However, I would add that GOP opposition to these kinds of programs never really goes away. Political reality may prevent outright repeal, but there are other ways to kill things.

I see that as their main tactic: doing everything they can to make the program seem inefficient, wasteful and counterproductive.

And they will take no prisoners and have no mercy in doing so. They have an idology to maintain: the ideology of the unrestricted Free Market.

259 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:49:01pm

Hi CL!

260 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:50:01pm

only half safe for work

261 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:50:13pm

Hi! {{Gus}}

262 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:50:49pm

re: #261 CuriousLurker

How goes things?

263 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:51:14pm

re: #261 CuriousLurker

Hi! {{Gus}}

{{CL}} How’s the recuperation going?

264 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:51:41pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

There are, I think, three four types of people who post to discussion threads.

People who want actual discussion and are willing to learn and interact respectfully.

People who want to cow everyone with their brilliance and receive acknowledgment of how awesome they are by converting everyone to their side of the ‘argument’.

Trolls.

People who post cat pictures.

(I probably mix 1 and 4, personally.)

In all seriousness, I lean toward #1. I have, on several occasions, admitted that others were right and acknowledged that fact. I also post pictures of my animals, like Banjo & Fozzie…
Banjo:
Image: 858478_10151474953963024_1783414498_o.jpg
Fozzie:
Image: 298552_10151632180293024_1619882457_n.jpg

265 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:51:45pm

re: #257 Gus

WHY IS THERE NO GOOGLE DOODLE FOR MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND?

Because Teh Google hates Murrika!

266 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:52:28pm

re: #260 stabby

[Embedded content]

only half safe for work

Updinged for cleavage.

267 A Mom Anon  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:52:52pm

So my husband got a new job(yay!). He starts a week from Monday(also yay!). The new employer will pay 70% of his health insurance(yay!). However, they will not pay a dime for mine or our son’s(boo! boo!). We’ll have to pay 100% of our premiums. I am scared shitless to see how much that’s going to end up being. THEN, I find out we won’t be insured until the first day of the first month after 60 consecutive days of employment.

I haz a headache now.

268 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:52:54pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

There are, I think, three four types of people who post to discussion threads.

People who want actual discussion and are willing to learn and interact respectfully.

People who want to cow everyone with their brilliance and receive acknowledgment of how awesome they are by converting everyone to their side of the ‘argument’.

Trolls.

People who post cat pictures.

(I probably mix 1 and 4, personally.)

I want to spread ideas suppose, but I don’t care if I convince the person that I’m arguing with. It’s a sort of internet-is-mass-media attitude.

269 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:53:08pm

re: #262 Varek Raith

How goes things?

re: #263 Gus

{{CL}} How’s the recuperation going?

I’m still a little wobbly and get tired fast, but overall things are going pretty well.

How’s your foot/leg, Gus?

270 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:53:16pm

re: #258 Sol Berdinowitz

I see that as their main tactic: doing everything they can to make the program seem inefficient, wasteful and counterproductive.

And they will take no prisoners and have no mercy in doing so. They have an idology to maintain: the ideology of the unrestricted Free market.

Indeed. Under W, the GOP deliberately ran up the debt with tax cuts, a war of choice, and a Medicare expansion structured as a give-away to big pharma.

The whole point of this was to artificially create a deficit issue to use as a tool for reducing social programs as part of some ‘compromise’.

271 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:53:18pm

re: #264 darthstar

In all seriousness, I lean toward #1. I have, on several occasions, admitted that others were right and acknowledged that fact. I also post pictures of my animals, like Banjo & Fozzie…
Banjo:
Image: 858478_10151474953963024_1783414498_o.jpg
Fozzie:
Image: 298552_10151632180293024_1619882457_n.jpg

I adore animal pictures. And the non-political asides and humor are what makes this place a community and not just a discussion board. I like knowing the other folks who post here as people, not just pseudonyms on some random website.

272 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:53:27pm

re: #229 klys and whatnot

There are, I think, three four types of people who post to discussion threads.

People who want actual discussion and are willing to learn and interact respectfully.

People who want to cow everyone with their brilliance and receive acknowledgment of how awesome they are by converting everyone to their side of the ‘argument’.

Trolls.

People who post cat pictures.

(I probably mix 1 and 4, personally.)

5. People who start pun and boob cascades. *Glares at Darth and Satt*

273 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:53:52pm
274 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:55:20pm

re: #269 CuriousLurker

re: #263 Gus

I’m still a little wobbly and get tired fast, but overall things are going pretty well.

How’s your foot/leg, Gus?

Finally drove yesterday. Was doing OK for the most part. I feel like I weigh a ton sometimes. Gotta be careful with the ankle and such. Went solo to a local store just now. I get tired in that I can’t stand for too long and have to put that leg up. It’s warm though! So far. Not hot hot.

275 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:55:32pm

re: #273 stabby

What the fuck? How old is that girl? What the fuck are you doing?

276 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:55:53pm

And here’s a picture of my boner…sad, sad little boner.

277 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:56:05pm

re: #272 Varek Raith

5. People who start pun and boob cascades. *Glares at Darth and Satt*

I was going to leave the list at 3 but I figured the cat pictures bit had to go in there.

278 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:56:23pm

re: #275 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Ha ha ha!
You turn out to be the granny who writes nasty letters to cuteoverload and makes her take down the catsnracks.

279 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:56:48pm

re: #275 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

What the fuck? How old is that girl? What the fuck are you doing?

For the sake of argument, let’s assume the tits are 18+ It’s just a youtube video of a cat in a blouse.

280 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:57:26pm

Oh, well. Everyone else is doing it.

This is Rango and Zeena, our Greyhounds.

Zeena’s 7 y.o., very sweet and reserved.

Rango’s 3, very sweet, and very outgoing. Also very active for a Greyhound. Think ‘World’s laziest Border Collie on Qaaludes’ active.

281 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:57:31pm

re: #267 A Mom Anon

So my husband got a new job(yay!). He starts a week from Monday(also yay!). The new employer will pay 70% of his health insurance(yay!). However, they will not pay a dime for mine or our son’s(boo! boo!). We’ll have to pay 100% of our premiums. I am scared shitless to see how much that’s going to end up being. THEN, I find out we won’t be insured until the first day of the first month after 60 consecutive days of employment.

I haz a headache now.

With the new job offer comes a new health insurance plan which is completely different than the health insurance plan that we were forced to switch to at the start of the year by the previous employer that just sold his product off.

Switching for the second time in 12 months makes me want to gnaw things, especially trying to figure out how the new one is going to affect things when I had just finally (mostly) grasped the old one.

282 engineer cat  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:58:00pm

re: #272 Varek Raith

5. People who start pun and boob cascades. *Glares at Darth and Satt*

who’s gonna join me for a few drinks at the old pun & boob?

283 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:58:16pm

re: #279 darthstar

I didn’t even see a cat before i clicked off it. I saw what looked like a young girl, cleavage, and little-girl pajamas. Not really something I’m comfy with.

284 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:59:09pm

re: #272 Varek Raith

5. People who start pun and boob cascades. *Glares at Darth and Satt*

I did not start a boobalanche! Seriously, is that the breast you can come up with?

285 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:59:36pm

From now on no more linking to Cute Overload!

//

286 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 1:59:46pm
287 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:00:05pm

re: #284 darthstar

I did not start a boobalanche! Seriously, is that the breast you can come up with?

That made me titter.

288 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:00:25pm

re: #283 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I didn’t even see a cat before i clicked off it. I saw what looked like a young girl, cleavage, and little-girl pajamas. Not really something I’m comfy with.

She’s wearing a bra, and there’s not even any nipple. Your wife’s a doctor, have her explain.

289 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:00:35pm

re: #272 Varek Raith

5. People who start pun and boob cascades. *Glares at Darth and Satt*

Well

It takes TWO you know!!

290 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:00:40pm
291 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:01:20pm

O.O

292 celticdragon  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:01:24pm

Stabby has been the best entertainment I have seen this week.

He reminds of the classic Bill Cosby comedy album where he is on the New York subway and observes that “They put a nut in every car!”

293 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:03:15pm

re: #292 celticdragon

Stabby has been the best entertainment I have seen this week.

He reminds of the classic Bill Cosby comedy album where he is on the New York subway and observes that “They put a nut in every car!”

The subways in NYC are one of my favorite goddamn things ever for that reason. Not just the nuts, but the nuts on their way to work to be a nut. Like guys dressed in a bear costume, or in leiderhosen, checking their watches, sippin’ their lattes.

294 celticdragon  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:03:18pm

re: #266 darthstar

Updinged for cleavage.

Like this?

295 Cheechako  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:03:37pm

Time for a feel-good, rescue the dog story:

JMR volunteers retrieve a lost dog Monday near the West Glacier Trail

“Is that the dog, or is that another goat?”

We were several hours and a couple miles into a recent call-out with Juneau Mountain Rescue.

“Pass the glasses over here, let me take a look.”

Unable to make a definitive call, we continued on, knowing that our contacts, the dog’s owners, were somewhere up ahead on the West Glacier trail.

A vacationing couple from Whitehorse had lost their dog, Kiska, Saturday afternoon. Their search that day evolved into a long Sunday on the trail and a disappointing night at camp. They resumed their searching Monday morning and finally heard Kiska’s cries coming from a small ledge below the West Glacier Trail — maybe 300 yards north and 50 yards below where they had last seen her. While her owners were able to get close, exposed sections of vertical rock prevented them from safely reaching her. That’s when JMR got the request for assistance.

More: Juneau Empire

296 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:03:39pm

re: #292 celticdragon

What bothers me is that people may well vote for the Republicans thinking “they’re the good guys, when they say extreme things they don’t mean any of it.”

And then bad things will happen.

297 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:03:49pm

And I’m off over here just watching Dr. Who.

298 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:04:04pm

re: #274 Gus

Finally drove yesterday. Was doing OK for the most part. I feel like I weigh a ton sometimes. Gotta be careful with the ankle and such. Went solo to a local store just now. I get tired in that I can’t stand for too long and have to put that leg up. It’s warm though! So far. Not hot hot.

That’s great. It really sucks not being able to do the everyday stuff you need to do. It’s weird how quickly the body can deteriorate when you don’t get your usual exercise from moving about normally, but it’s equally amazing how quickly the body can heal itself.

Understanding what happened in my brain was both scary & fascinating. Everything really is connected to everything else, not only internally, but also what we do, how we eat, how we react, etc.

299 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:04:09pm

re: #294 celticdragon

Well played.

300 Political Atheist  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:04:51pm

re: #199 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

I’m sorry, I’m not following you. What extra offices are we talking about, and what providers?

Private providers have to have divisions by state. They can’t really centralize like a true national operation ca.

301 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:04:51pm

re: #298 CuriousLurker

Have I already recommended “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers” and “A Primate’s Memoir” to you?

302 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:05:05pm

re: #266 darthstar

Updinged for cleavage.

I used to love that show, Leave it to Cleavage

303 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:05:12pm

Okay…time to listen to Hardball. He just opened with “True Commander: Let’s play hardball”…now Chris is going to get off his paranoia about scandal and do a little Obama make up…sometimes he tires me.

304 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:06:29pm

re: #296 stabby

What bothers me is that people may well vote for the Republicans thinking “they’re the good guys, when they say extreme things they don’t mean any of it.”

And then bad things will happen.

That brings to mind one of the more alarming study results of the last few years: folks were read passages from the GOP platform, and they would not believe it was for real. They thought it was the Dem’s idea of what Republicans think.

305 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:07:08pm

re: #304 GeneJockey

I remember that :(

306 Varek Raith  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:07:31pm
307 celticdragon  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:07:42pm

re: #296 stabby

What bothers me is that people may well vote for the Republicans thinking “they’re the good guys, when they say extreme things they don’t mean any of it.”

And then bad things will happen.

If you are concerned about low information voters, then you need to learn how persuasion works.

Right now, you would fit in real well with the folks over at Glen Greenwald’s blog, and that is not a compliment. Tone the outrage down by a couple orders of magnitude.

308 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:08:34pm

Hm…new thread smell…think I’ll go check it out.

309 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:08:36pm

re: #298 CuriousLurker

That’s great. It really sucks not being able to do the everyday stuff you need to do. It’s weird how quickly the body can deteriorate when you don’t get your usual exercise from moving about normally, but it’s equally amazing how quickly the body can heal itself.

Understanding what happened in my brain was both scary & fascinating. Everything really is connected to everything else, not only internally, but also what we do, how we eat, how we react, etc.

Glad you’re back! {{hugs}}

310 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:08:37pm

re: #301 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

Have I already recommended “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers” and “A Primate’s Memoir” to you?

Nope, but I love the titles! :-)

311 HoosierHoops  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:08:44pm

Hi Lizards! I have a quick question.
I just got a bad ass iMac and need to put Microsoft Office on it.
When I Googled the subject I got everything from free downloads to 60+ bucks for Office.. Does anybody use Mac here with Office on it? Any thoughts or insights please?

312 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:08:53pm

re: #306 Varek Raith

It would have been funnier if he fell in the other direction.

313 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:08:56pm

re: #298 CuriousLurker

That’s great. It really sucks not being able to do the everyday stuff you need to do. It’s weird how quickly the body can deteriorate when you don’t get your usual exercise from moving about normally, but it’s equally amazing how quickly the body can heal itself.

Understanding what happened in my brain was both scary & fascinating. Everything really is connected to everything else, not only internally, but also what we do, how we eat, how we react, etc.

Like quitting smoking. Something I have to do.

314 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:09:15pm

re: #308 darthstar

Hm…new thread smell…think I’ll go check it out.

I just came back from there. It was lonely.

315 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:09:35pm

re: #310 CuriousLurker

Nope, but I love the titles! :-)

They’re about our endocrine systems, and they rule.

316 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:09:48pm

re: #312 stabby

It would have been funnier if he fell in the other direction.

Certainly more Newtonian.

317 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:09:50pm

re: #304 GeneJockey

That brings to mind one of the more alarming study results of the last few years: folks were read passages from the GOP platform, and they would not believe it was for real. They thought it was the Dem’s idea of what Republicans think.

This x100. I think it is very dangerous to assume that the current crop of Republicans are too extreme to win at the national level. Swing/low information voters in the middle are fickle, and could easily give us a teabagger House, Senate and President out of some combination of apathy, stupidity, and not believing the GOP means what it says.

318 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:10:03pm

re: #311 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards! I have a quick question.
I just got a bad ass iMac and need to put Microsoft Office on it.
When I Googled the subject I got everything from free downloads to 60+ bucks for Office.. Does anybody use Mac here with Office on it? Any thoughts or insights please?

I prefer Office on Windows. You lose functionality on the Mac, primarily due to restrictions on certain operations in the OS.

That being said, it does work. It’s Office.

319 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:10:06pm

re: #309 Backwoods_Sleuth

Glad you’re back! {{hugs}}

Thanks! {{B_S}}

320 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:10:19pm

re: #303 darthstar

Okay…time to listen to Hardball. He just opened with “True Commander: Let’s play hardball”…now Chris is going to get off his paranoia about scandal and do a little Obama make up…sometimes he tires me.

All that nasal sniff/snorting and spit-speaking he does…he really should see a doctor about that…

321 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:11:23pm
322 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:11:54pm

re: #311 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards! I have a quick question.
I just got a bad ass iMac and need to put Microsoft Office on it.
When I Googled the subject I got everything from free downloads to 60+ bucks for Office.. Does anybody use Mac here with Office on it? Any thoughts or insights please?

I use Open Office.

323 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:12:00pm

re: #318 klys and whatnot

I prefer Office on Windows. You lose functionality on the Mac, primarily due to restrictions on certain operations in the OS.

That being said, it does work. It’s Office.

Out of curiosity, what functionality is lost? I use a Mac for work, but trade documents with Windows users all the time.

324 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:12:46pm

re: #317 EPR-radar

Remember, Mitt Romney spoke in front of the NAACP just to insult them for wanting the ACA.

That’s an amazingly radical action, it’s not a joke. If you’re willing to host a spectacle where you burn the entire black race just to oppose health care for the poor, you’re not hoping the topic will fade away.

325 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:13:16pm

re: #322 Backwoods_Sleuth

I use Open Office.

Second Open Office. It’s free and you can save in Office format for sharing.

326 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:13:27pm

re: #318 klys and whatnot

I prefer Office on Windows. You lose functionality on the Mac, primarily due to restrictions on certain operations in the OS.

That being said, it does work. It’s Office.

I should add, the lost functionality is probably not a big deal to anyone other than research groups (unable to convert and ungroup things imported from other programs because the MacOS only does copy and paste as text or a PDF-type uneditable file, while Windows supports Windows meta-files (which Mac used to) and this seriously impacted my research group’s method for producing figures).

327 HoosierHoops  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:14:27pm

re: #322 Backwoods_Sleuth

I use Open Office.

Does it convert to real Office Formats? It’s for work..I can always operate on the Monster Win 7 Computer or my new Mac..Which I totally think is awesome..Except for the 5% of things I hate. :)

328 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:14:30pm

re: #323 EPR-radar

Out of curiosity, what functionality is lost? I use a Mac for work, but trade documents with Windows users all the time.

Random freezing. The need to reboot on occasion. Office closing without saving your work. Those things are lost.

329 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:15:04pm

re: #327 HoosierHoops

Does it convert to real Office Formats? It’s for work..I can always operate on the Monster Win 7 Computer or my new Mac..Which I totally think is awesome..Except for the 5% of things I hate. :)

It does, and it’s got a pretty icon with two seagull silhouettes on it.

330 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:15:16pm

re: #327 HoosierHoops

Does it convert to real Office Formats? It’s for work..I can always operate on the Monster Win 7 Computer or my new Mac..Which I totally think is awesome..Except for the 5% of things I hate. :)

It’s worked for me so far with no problems.

331 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:15:27pm

re: #324 stabby

Remember, Mitt Romney spoke in front of the NAACP just to insult them for wanting the ACA.

That’s an amazingly radical action, it’s not a joke. If you’re willing to host a spectacle where you burn the entire black race just to oppose health care for the poor, you’re not hoping the topic will fade away.

IMO, had Romney won in 2012, and had a GOP House and Senate, there would have been a real attempt to repeal ACA. He ran on repealing it, after all.

332 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:15:48pm

re: #328 darthstar

Random freezing. The need to reboot on occasion. Office closing without saving your work. Those things are lost.

old truism: “save early and often…”

333 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:15:48pm

re: #323 EPR-radar

Out of curiosity, what functionality is lost? I use a Mac for work, but trade documents with Windows users all the time.

I summarized in 326, but essentially we lost our ability to produce graphs in another program and then bring them into Powerpoint for processing/producing figures/etc.

I maintain a copy of Office 2004 (the last Mac version that allowed this) for exactly this reason. Except now I don’t have to worry about it anymore. My advisor can sort out what he’s doing on his own.

(Wasn’t a major issue until they killed Rosetta in …10.7? and you could no longer run PowerPC stuff.)

334 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:16:34pm

re: #331 EPR-radar

IMO, had Romney won in 2012, and had a GOP House and Senate, there would have been a real attempt to repeal ACA. He ran on repealing it, after all.

Mitt Romney ran on whatever he thought would get him elected. He doesn’t actually believe a single thing he said during his campaign.

335 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:16:36pm

re: #313 Gus

Like quitting smoking. Something I have to do.

You really should, and if you have high blood pressure, get it under control. Lung cancer, heart attack, etc.—all those things crossed my mind, but an aneurysm? Never even thought of it for half a second.

I haven’t had a smoke since the day I was taken to the hospital (Apr 29). The desire is still there—almost overwhelming sometimes—but I don’t want to cave to it as it’ll be too hard to quit again and I’m not keen on creating any more miniature IEDs inside my brain. O_o

336 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:16:49pm

Isn’t there some kind of replacement for Open Office?

I thought Open Office was begin depreciated for some reason.

337 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:17:11pm

re: #336 stabby

Isn’t there some kind of replacement for Open Office?

I thought Open Office was begin depreciated for some reason.

Google docs.

338 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:17:27pm

re: #326 klys and whatnot

I should add, the lost functionality is probably not a big deal to anyone other than research groups (unable to convert and ungroup things imported from other programs because the MacOS only does copy and paste as text or a PDF-type uneditable file, while Windows supports Windows meta-files (which Mac used to) and this seriously impacted my research group’s method for producing figures).

I have a coworker who does Flow Cytometry. His FACS sorter and analyzer both use Macs, and our company uses XP. He’s got both, and is constantly griping about the poor functionality of Office for Mac, compared to Windows. Other than that, he prefers Macs.

339 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:17:28pm

re: #315 Bert’s House of Beef and Obdicuts

They’re about our endocrine systems, and they rule.

I’ll look them up on Amazon. Thx.

340 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:17:31pm

re: #328 darthstar

Random freezing. The need to reboot on occasion. Office closing without saving your work. Those things are lost.

I can’t comment on any of the stuff related to the iCloud whatever because I refuse to touch it. My MBA actually runs Windows 7 exclusively (I went Mac for it because the build quality is fairly predictable and the accessibility of repair mattered - thanks Sony, I will never buy your laptops again.)

341 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:18:09pm

re: #336 stabby

Isn’t there some kind of replacement for Open Office?

I thought Open Office was begin depreciated for some reason.

Mint version of Linux is carrying “Libre”. Looks like the same thing.

342 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:19:16pm

re: #341 Decatur Deb

Mint version of Linux is carrying “Libre”. Looks like the same thing.

I have Libre Office on my Ubuntu box at home. It’s also free and does pretty much what most people need it to do.

I miss Clippy.
(ducks)

343 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:19:25pm

Yeah there are two forks for the now dead Open Office according to wikipedia

LibreOffice
and
Apache OpenOffice

344 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:19:35pm

re: #327 HoosierHoops

Does it convert to real Office Formats? It’s for work..I can always operate on the Monster Win 7 Computer or my new Mac..Which I totally think is awesome..Except for the 5% of things I hate. :)

also, since it’s free, if Open Office doesn’t work for you, all you’ve lost is some time.

345 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:19:50pm

re: #338 GeneJockey

I have a coworker who does Flow Cytometry. His FACS sorter and analyzer both use Macs, and our company uses XP. He’s got both, and is constantly griping about the poor functionality of Office for Mac, compared to Windows. Other than that, he prefers Macs.

I preferred Macs for a while but have switched back to Windows with Win7. I’m not a big fan of the whole “one operating system for phone/tablet/computer” thing that’s going on right now. I’ll probably stay staked out on Win7 for a while while they figure out what the hell they’re doing.

346 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:20:46pm

re: #334 darthstar

Mitt Romney ran on whatever he thought would get him elected. He doesn’t actually believe a single thing he said during his campaign.

I shouldn’t have mentioned Romney’s campaign promises, since as you correctly point out they are completely irrelevant.

However, in that hypothetical, GOP ideologues in Congress would be running the show, and IMO they would have gone for repeal. Romney’s role in all of this was intended to be the bill-signing muppet. He certainly would not have vetoed a GOP repeal of the ACA.

347 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:20:53pm

re: #335 CuriousLurker

I wonder how the health effects of the scentless electronic cigarettes compare with smoking. It’s still nicotine through your lungs but no smoke.

348 HoosierHoops  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:22:15pm

re: #330 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s worked for me so far with no problems.

Thanks.. I’m heading off to the iMac from my Laptop. I need Office for work but I love the iMac. So I’m going to download Office..Have a good link? Only 10 million links from Google.. LOL
I’ll be signing off and signing on another machine..Which is a pain but I explained yesterday that you can steal a sessionID from the server sending an error and reply. So it’s good practice to allow only one sign on..

349 Single-handed sailor  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:24:21pm

re: #336 stabby

Isn’t there some kind of replacement for Open Office?

I thought Open Office was begin depreciated for some reason.

Libre Office, OO I think is stagnant. LO is still being developed.

350 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:24:55pm

re: #335 CuriousLurker

You really should, and if you have high blood pressure, get it under control. Lung cancer, heart attack, etc.—all those things crossed my mind, but an aneurysm? Never even thought of iot for half a second.

I haven’t had a smoke since the day I was taken to the hospital (Apr 29). The desire is still there—almost overwhelming sometimes—but I don’t want to cave to it as it’ll be too hard to quit again and I’m not keen on creating any more miniature IEDs inside my brain. O_o

Sounds like a very, very good incentive to remain smoke free.

351 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:25:31pm

re: #334 darthstar

Mitt Romney ran on whatever he thought would get him elected. He doesn’t actually believe a single thing he said during his campaign.

His constant comments in the 47% vein (all the griping after the election) and his choice of Ryan show that he doesn’t care to have a safety net for the poor either.

He’s too comfortable in his new tea party roll for me to trust that he cares for anyone or anything.

352 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:25:32pm

re: #339 CuriousLurker

I’ll look them up on Amazon. Thx.

Glad you’re OK. Looks like Medical Month on LGF—just got back from recovering a friend in Georgia (knee replacement). I just did two laser glaucoma surgeries locally. Wife is disabled—had a rotator cuff sown up at the same Georgia clinic this week. (I’ve pulled down more women’s panties this week than in the last ten years.)

353 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:25:33pm

re: #298 CuriousLurker

YAYAYAY!!!

Welcome back!!!!

You doing better? As you can see, I have gone full Whovian. :P

354 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:25:47pm

re: #347 stabby

I wonder how the health effects of the scentless electronic cigarettes compare with smoking. It’s still nicotine through your lungs but no smoke.

I don’t know, I wondered the same thing. I had an electronic cig thing that my son had given me. Tried to take a puff off it it after getting out of the hospital, but it choked me and made me cough. I guess my lungs are in full revolt now.

355 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:27:52pm

re: #348 HoosierHoops

Thanks.. I’m heading off to the iMac from my Laptop. I need Office for work but I love the iMac. So I’m going to download Office..Have a good link? Only 10 million links from Google.. LOL
I’ll be signing off and signing on another machine..Which is a pain but I explained yesterday that you can steal a sessionID from the server sending an error and reply. So it’s good practice to allow only one sign on..

Two links:
OpenOffice


and Apache, who has taken over OpenOffice:
ApacheOpenOffice

356 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:28:21pm

re: #354 CuriousLurker

w/b, btw (sorry ,, late to the party ,, as usual)

slow and easy,, K !?!?!

357 sattv4u2  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:29:15pm

re: #352 Decatur Deb

I’ve pulled down more women’s panties this week than in the last ten years.

Started wearing them again, didjya!?!?

358 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:29:46pm

re: #351 stabby

Mitt Romney isn’t a politician. He’s just a rich old guy with no say what happens in this country.

359 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:29:52pm

re: #352 Decatur Deb

Glad you’re OK. Looks like Medical Month on LGF—just got back from recovering a friend in Georgia (knee replacement). I just did two laser glaucoma surgeries locally. Wife is disabled—had a rotator cuff sown up at the same Georgia clinic this week. (I’ve pulled down more women’s panties this week than in the last ten years.)

Thanks. Good grief, it does indeed sound like Medical Month at LGF. At least most of us are still alive and recovering. I feel bad for the folks that lost people.

360 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:30:55pm

re: #356 sattv4u2

w/b, btw (sorry ,, late to the party ,, as usual)

slow and easy,, K !?!?!

K. And thanks. ;-)
{{satt}}

361 HoosierHoops  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:31:08pm

re: #355 Backwoods_Sleuth

Two links:
OpenOffice

and Apache, who has taken over OpenOffice:
ApacheOpenOffice

Thanks! I’m downloading Open office now.

362 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:31:37pm

re: #354 CuriousLurker

Well some of them have something like real (but preserved) smoke in them, they may even be STRONGER than real cigarettes. They smell like cigarettes and make your mouth taste like an ashtray etc…

Others just have a more pure solution in them.

But yeah, if your lungs are in bad shape putting stuff other than air in them might not be a good thing.

There are some nicotine like things you can buy:
For instance this company sells galantamine as a “food supplement”

It’s also available by prescription as a drug for Alzheimers, but it’s plant sourced so you can buy it without a prescription.

363 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:32:23pm

re: #358 darthstar

He was the leader of the Republican party for a while and would have remained so while President.

364 calochortus  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:33:09pm

re: #360 CuriousLurker

Looks like I’m late to the party too. (You go on a trip and you miss all kinds of things…) It sounds like you’re doing well though. Keep up the good work.

365 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:33:25pm

re: #359 CuriousLurker

Thanks. Good grief, it does indeed sound like Medical Month at LGF. At least most of us are still alive and recovering. I feel bad for the folks that lost people.

I also feel bad for the bunch of Americans who need the care we got and can’t afford it. About half a million of us are at great risk of losing their vision for want of screening and (expensive) eyedrops. We won’t support prevention, but put people on Social Security disability once they’re blind.

366 darthstar  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:33:40pm

re: #363 stabby

He was the leader of the Republican party for a while and would have remained so while President.

was+would have is less than IS and Mitt Romney is irrelevant.

367 stabby  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:33:43pm

I suspect that the marketing hint for e-cigs is that the white ones have no scent and the black ones smell like smoke.

368 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:34:01pm

re: #362 stabby

Interesting info. Thanks.

369 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:34:53pm

re: #364 calochortus

Looks like I’m late to the party too. (You go on a trip and you miss all kinds of things…) It sounds like you’re doing well though. Keep up the good work.

Thanks.

370 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:38:06pm

re: #365 Decatur Deb

I also feel bad for the bunch of Americans who need the care we got and can’t afford it. About half a million of us are at great risk of losing their vision for want of screening and (expensive) eyedrops. We won’t support prevention, but put people on Social Security disability once they’re blind.

I heard that. As I was lying in bed in the ICU I kept thinking, “What if I didn’t have insurance through my job—what kind of massive debt would I be saddled with upon my release? How would I pay for all the follow-up stuff? (I wouldn’t be able to.)”

371 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:43:36pm

re: #370 CuriousLurker

I heard that. As I was lying in bed in the ICU I kept thinking, “What if I didn’t have insurance through my job—what kind of massive debt would I be saddled with upon my release? How would I pay for all the follow-up stuff? (I wouldn’t be able to.)”

Exactly the sort of thinking that is not conducive to healing if you don’t have insurance.

372 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:43:40pm

re: #370 CuriousLurker

Did I mention that I’m bald now? They shaved my head when the put in the drainage tube and stapled it to the side of my skull. Three cheers for hijab! (Actually I kinda like being bald; very low-maintenance.)

What I didn’t like was my stupid imagination wondering what it was like when they were drilling the hole in my head and stapling it. *Bzzzzzz, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk…*

373 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:45:00pm

re: #372 CuriousLurker

Did I mention that I’m bald now? They shaved my head when the put in the drainage tube and stapled it to the side of my skull. Three cheers for hijab! (Actually I kinda like being bald; very low-maintenance.)

What I didn’t like was my stupid imagination wondering what it was like when they were drilling the hole in my head and stapling it. *Bzzzzzz, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk…*

Oh man. I know the necessity of that but it would have killed me. I freely admit that my hair is my one vanity and I like it long. I only get a haircut once every two years or so.

374 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:45:09pm

re: #371 Backwoods_Sleuth

Exactly the sort of thinking that is not conducive to healing if you don’t have insurance.

Excellent point.

375 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:47:08pm

re: #372 CuriousLurker

Did I mention that I’m bald now? They shaved my head when the put in the drainage tube and stapled it to the side of my skull. Three cheers for hijab! (Actually I kinda like being bald; very low-maintenance.)

What I didn’t like was my stupid imagination wondering what it was like when they were drilling the hole in my head and stapling it. *Bzzzzzz, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk…*

Dr. Norm Abram on This Old Skull. :D

How long was the surgery?

376 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:49:09pm

re: #374 CuriousLurker

Are you doing better?

377 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:55:50pm

re: #375 Gus

Dr. Norm Abram on This Old Skull. :D

How long was the surgery?

I have no idea and it never occurred to me to ask. All I remember was being in the hospital in East Orange on the evening of Monday, Apr 29th and puking my guts out because of the headache & dizziness, then someone asking me if I wanted to have all or only part of my head shaved—that must have been after they moved me to Newark, I assume later that evening, because that’s where they did the surgery and if they hadn’t done it pretty quickly I’d either be dead or disabled now.

Aside from them asking me about shaving my head, I don’t remember anything except waking up in the ICU on Wednesday, May 1 (and immediately complaining about the stupid breathing tube that was gagging me, heh).

378 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 2:56:20pm

re: #376 ProTARDISLiberal

Are you doing better?

Yes, I am. Thanks for asking.

379 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:01:04pm

re: #377 CuriousLurker

I have no idea and it never occurred to me to ask. All I remember was being in the hospital in East Orange on the evening of Monday, Apr 29th and puking my guts out because of the headache & dizziness, then someone asking me if I wanted to have all or only part of my head shaved—that must have been after they moved me to Newark, I assume later that evening, because that’s where they did the surgery and if they hadn’t done it pretty quickly I’d either be dead or disabled now.

Aside from them asking me about shaving my head, I don’t remember anything except waking up in the ICU (and immediately complaining about the stupid breathing tube that was gagging me, heh).

Good move on your part. I mean, you can’t have made a better decision then to get to the hospital. I remember you coming in here to announce what had just happened. Then you disappeared for several days. I figured at the time from what you described that you would have needed surgery ASAP.

380 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:06:41pm

re: #379 Gus

Good move on your part. I mean, you can’t have made a better decision then to get to the hospital. I remember you coming in here to announce what had just happened. Then you disappeared for several days. I figured at the time from what you described that you would have needed surgery ASAP.

Yeah, the docs said if I hadn’t gone to the hospital right away I would most likely have eventually just gone to sleep and never woken up.

BTW, one other thing I did was to go out into the lobby of my building while I was on the phone with 911 waiting for the EMS. I live alone and was afraid that if I lost consciousness in my apartment, then I might not be found in time. If any of you live alone, you might want to keep that in mind.

381 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:08:12pm

re: #380 CuriousLurker

Yeah, the docs said if I hadn’t gone to the hospital right away I would most likely have eventually just gone to sleep and never woken up.

BTW, one other thing I did was to go out into the lobby of my building while I was on the phone with 9/11 waiting for the EMS. I live alone and was afraid that if I lost consciousness in my apartment, then I might not be found in time. If any of you live alone, you might want to keep that in mind.

So very, very glad you did what you did. In both going to the hospital and in thinking clearly to head down to the lobby. A lot of people wouldn’t have been so clear-minded about it under those circumstances.

382 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:09:36pm

re: #379 Gus

Actually, I don’t think I posted here until after I woke up, post-surgery. My disappearance after that would’ve been due to lack of internet access and/or just feeling like crap and not being interested in going online. ;)

383 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:12:29pm

re: #311 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards! I have a quick question.
I just got a bad ass iMac and need to put Microsoft Office on it.
When I Googled the subject I got everything from free downloads to 60+ bucks for Office.. Does anybody use Mac here with Office on it? Any thoughts or insights please?

Yeah, I have Office 2011 for Mac, Home and Student Family Pack version, finished my Master’s thesis using its versions of Excel and Word. Good stuff, this version can be installed on up to 3 computers, so if you get a Macbook Pro down the line, which you probably will, you’ll be set.

384 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:13:25pm

re: #382 CuriousLurker

Actually, I don’t think I posted here until after I woke up, post-surgery. My disappearance after that would’ve been due to lack of internet access and/or just feeling like crap and not being interested in going online. ;)

Ah, OK. Good idea on getting to the lobby and/or otherwise somewhere public when symptoms like this show up. Another reason not to live alone. I think. Found myself thinking that after I broke my leg. How I wish I had a life partner or something like that.

385 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:14:47pm

re: #381 klys and whatnot

So very, very glad you did what you did. In both going to the hospital and in thinking clearly to head down to the lobby. A lot of people wouldn’t have been so clear-minded about it under those circumstances.

Funny how the survival instinct kicks in. The only other time my life was in immediate danger (back when I drove a taxi and was being robbed at knifepoint) the exact same thing happened—time slowed to crawl, almost slow-motion, and options suddenly became few and crystal clear. Weird that.

Evolution! I guess we’re hard-wired like that, huh?

386 wrenchwench  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:14:50pm

re: #378 CuriousLurker

When my Dad was sick, they told his wife ‘a week of rehab for each day in the ICU’ or something like that, so the weakness and fatigue are normal, if frustrating.

Five years ago this month Mr. w saved our neighbor’s life. The neighbor had come home for lunch, and told Mr. w he had chest pain and was going to lie down. Mr. w said, ‘If you don’t call 911, I’m going to.’ The neighbor had an aortic dissection. He was flown to Phoenix for surgery. It’s amazing he lived through it. He quit smoking that day. He’s happy and pretty healthy now, but trying to get on disability because he can’t work any more. Despite many frustrations, you never met anyone so happy to be alive.

387 EPR-radar  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:16:33pm

re: #384 Gus

Ah, OK. Good idea on getting to the lobby and/or otherwise somewhere public when symptoms like this show up. Another reason not to live alone. I think. Found myself thinking that after I broke my leg. How I wish I had a life partner or something like that.

IIRC, living alone knocks a few years off life expectancy, on average.

It wouldn’t surprise me if much of this difference is due to logistics (e.g., not having someone else around to call 911 if you pass out).

388 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:20:46pm

re: #386 wrenchwench

When my Dad was sick, they told his wife ‘a week of rehab for each day in the ICU’ or something like that, so the weakness and fatigue are normal, if frustrating.

It is frustrating, very, but I know I can’t afford to push it. Did I mention they sent me home with a week’s worth of Percocets? They were great, but all gone now (prolly a good thing as I know they’re highly addictive).

Five years ago this month Mr. w saved our neighbor’s life. The neighbor had come home for lunch, and told Mr. w he had chest pain and was going to lie down. Mr. w said, ‘If you don’t call 911, I’m going to.’ The neighbor had an aortic dissection. He was flown to Phoenix for surgery. It’s amazing he lived through it. He quit smoking that day. He’s happy and pretty healthy now, but trying to get on disability because he can’t work any more. Despite many frustrations, you never met anyone so happy to be alive.

Wow, great story—I wanna have you guys for neighbors. Glad your neighbor is happy to be alive, even if under less than perfect circumstances.

389 A Mom Anon  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:21:28pm

re: #385 CuriousLurker

Glad you’re back and doing better. Take care of yourself. I’ve missed you around here. (((hugs)))

390 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:23:30pm

Serious troll upstairs.

391 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:24:15pm

re: #386 wrenchwench

When my Dad was sick, they told his wife ‘a week of rehab for each day in the ICU’ or something like that, so the weakness and fatigue are normal, if frustrating.

Five years ago this month Mr. w saved our neighbor’s life. The neighbor had come home for lunch, and told Mr. w he had chest pain and was going to lie down. Mr. w said, ‘If you don’t call 911, I’m going to.’ The neighbor had an aortic dissection. He was flown to Phoenix for surgery. It’s amazing he lived through it. He quit smoking that day. He’s happy and pretty healthy now, but trying to get on disability because he can’t work any more. Despite many frustrations, you never met anyone so happy to be alive.

My grandfather died of an aortic aneurism, compounded by a likely stroke and heart attack. That is definitely something to be taken seriously.

392 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:24:19pm

re: #389 A Mom Anon

Glad you’re back and doing better. Take care of yourself. I’ve missed you around here. (((hugs)))

Thanks, I missed you guys too. Even worse, I was stuck watching CNN all day (thank God it wasn’t Fox, or I’d Have been sure I’d died and gone straight to hell).

{{AMA}}

393 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:24:29pm

re: #390 Gus

Serious troll upstairs.

Is that the new “soundoff” hatchling?

394 klys and whatnot  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:24:49pm

re: #392 CuriousLurker

Thanks, I missed you guys too. Even worse, I was stuck watching CNN all day (thank God it wasn’t Fox, or I’d Have been sure I’d died and gone straight to hell).

{{AMA}}

I’m pretty sure that is the definition of hell.

395 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:24:57pm

re: #385 CuriousLurker

Funny how the survival instinct kicks in. The only other time my life was in immediate danger (back when I drove a taxi and was being robbed at knifepoint) the exact same thing happened—time slowed to crawl, almost slow-motion, and options suddenly became few and crystal clear. Weird that.

Evolution! I guess we’re hard-wired like that, huh?

There’s sciency-stuff on that. Experienced it twice with parachute malfunctions.

scienceblogs.com

396 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:25:10pm

re: #393 klys and whatnot

Is that the new “soundoff” hatchling?

Yep.

397 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:25:59pm

re: #390 Gus

Serious troll upstairs.

Ha! When I saw the new registrant name in the Spy, “troll” was the first thing I thought.

398 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:26:54pm

re: #395 Decatur Deb

There’s sciency-stuff on that. Experienced it twice with parachute malfunctions.

scienceblogs.com

Cool, thanks!

399 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:39:32pm

re: #397 CuriousLurker

Ha! When I saw the new registrant name in the Spy, “troll” was the first thing I thought.

Yeah. Considering you’re still recovering. Stay out. :D

400 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:42:35pm

re: #399 Gus

I intend to. Not worth raising my blood pressure. ;-)

401 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:44:15pm

re: #400 CuriousLurker

I intend to. Not worth raising my blood pressure. ;-)

It’s gone now. :D

402 Gus  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:44:24pm

The troll that is.

403 GeneJockey  Fri, May 24, 2013 3:55:20pm

re: #400 CuriousLurker

I intend to. Not worth raising my blood pressure. ;-)

This was the kind of troll that doesn’t affect blood pressure. From the first sentence of the first post, you could tell he’s just a whining moron, trying to get banned as quickly as possible so he can tell his friends what an AWFUL place this is.

Not a quality troll. More like Walmart bargain grade.

404 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 4:43:54pm

re: #403 GeneJockey

Yeah, I was just skimming the thread—another whiner with abandonment issues who’s still angry at CJ years after being banned. Weirdness abounds.

405 PhillyPretzel  Fri, May 24, 2013 5:29:12pm

re: #404 CuriousLurker

It is good to see you again CL. And you are right no troll is worth high blood pressure or anything else that can make you sick.

406 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 8:45:39pm

re: #405 PhillyPretzel

It is good to see you again CL. And you are right no troll is worth high blood pressure or anything else that can make you sick.

Thanks, good to see you too. ;-)

407 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 24, 2013 8:46:14pm

re: #353 ProTARDISLiberal

YAYAYAY!!!

Welcome back!!!!

You doing better? As you can see, I have gone full Whovian. :P

Oops, missed this earlier. Thanks!

408 Bulworth  Sat, May 25, 2013 5:02:20am
Ms. Zink, having my great sympathy and empathy both. I still come back wondering, shouldn’t we wait… and see if the child can survive before we decide to rip him apart? So, these are ethical issues, they’re moral issues, they’re difficult issues, and the parents should certainly be consulted. But it just seems like, it’s a more educated decision if the child is in front of you to make those decisions.

So, Gohmert has “great sympathy and empathy” but why are you immoral, slutty parents going to “rip [the baby] apart”?? And the parents should be “consulted” but Louie Gohmert wants the final call.

/

409 EdEncho  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:24:54am

Yes, the Lone Star State is in a league of its own when it comes to gun-totin’, bible thumpin’ chicken-fried motherfuckery and were this a serious country the ongoing caterwauling emanating from every hick politician in the state they should not only be allowed to secede but it should be mandatory. Then all of the other moronic, inbred, Jesus juiced, firearm infatuated, easily duped racist shitkickers could just move there and we can finally get mass approval for that border fence and put one up around that lunatic colony.

Just my two cents

EE

410 Skip Intro  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:56:22am

re: #50 Kragar

Wait until the brain dead child is born before deciding whether or not to have the abortion.

Yeah, that’s what I thought he was suggesting. They grow their idiots really big in Texas.


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