Heaven for Atheists? Better Read the Fine Print

Punk’d by the Pope
Religion • Views: 37,441

This week, the new Pope Francis raised quite a ruckus when he said:

“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone,” the pope told worshipers at morning Mass on Wednesday. “‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!”

Francis continued, “We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Was he really saying that atheists are not necessarily doomed to eternal hellfire? That would be … quite a change.

Or is this just a misunderstanding of the Roman Catholic terms of service?

On Thursday, the Vatican issued an “explanatory note on the meaning to ‘salvation.’”

The Rev. Thomas Rosica, a Vatican spokesman, said that people who aware of the Catholic church “cannot be saved” if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her.”

At the same time, Rosica writes, “every man or woman, whatever their situation, can be saved. Even non-Christians can respond to this saving action of the Spirit. No person is excluded from salvation simply because of so-called original sin.”

Rosica also said that Francis had “no intention of provoking a theological debate on the nature of salvation,” during his homily on Wednesday.

Although the pope’s comments about salvation surprised some, bishops and experts in Catholicism say Francis was expressing a core tenant of the faith.

“Francis was clear that whatever graces are offered to atheists (such that they may be saved) are from Christ,” the Rev. John Zuhlsdorf, a conservative Catholic priest, wrote on his blog.

“He was clear that salvation is only through Christ’s Sacrifice. In other words, he is not suggesting - and I think some are taking it this way - that you can be saved, get to heaven, without Christ.”

Chad Pecknold, an assistant professor of theology at the Catholic University of America, agreed with Zuhlsdorf, pointing out that the pope’s comments came on the Feast of Saint Rita, the Catholic patron saint of impossible things.

See? That’s why you always need to read the fine print.

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323 comments

1 sauceruney  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:00:52pm

The first rule of God club is you have to join before you can get in. Or something like that.

2 austin_blue  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:08:37pm

Francis:

“Can someone rid me of these meddlesome priests? I thought I was pretty clear!”

3 Skip Intro  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:09:30pm

re: #1 sauceruney

The first rule of God club is you have to join before you can get in. Or something like that.

But the catch is you have to join the right club. Apparently here the right - and only club - is the Catholic church. Ask an evangelical, and they’ll tell you that the Pope worshipers are going straight into the pits of Hell, and only way to be saved is to belong to their club.

I don’t know why God decided to make it all so complicated, unless, prankster that He is, He’s going to send everybody to Hell just for laughs.

4 sauceruney  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:10:54pm

re: #3 Skip Intro

I don’t know why God decided to make it all so complicated, unless, prankster that He is, He’s going to send everybody to Hell just for laughs.

Sometimes I feel like Hell is the here and now of existence.

5 jaunte  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:14:32pm

TalkOrigins on the story of Darwin’s deathbed conversion:

With Moody’s encouragement, Lady Hope’s story was printed in the Boston Watchman Examiner. The story spread, and the claims were republished as late as October 1955 in the Reformation Review and in the Monthly Record of the Free Church of Scotland in February 1957. These attempts to fudge Darwin’s story had already been exposed for what they were, first by his daughter Henrietta after they had been revived in 1922. “I was present at his deathbed,” she wrote in the Christian for February 23, 1922. “Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A… . The whole story has no foundation whatever.”
talkorigins.org

6 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:15:30pm

Feast of Saint Rita. Say no more.

7 Bubblehead II  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:19:55pm

Night Lizards. Guess I’m going to burn in hell. There fore Fuck you “god” And may you burn in the same “hell” as me you arrogant bastard.

So it has been written, so it shall be done.

8 AntonSirius  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:25:17pm

This is the kind of thing I always imagined John Paul I would have done had he not been assassinated by Opus Dei lived longer. His book of letters to various historical and fictional figures had the same kind of gentle, impish sense of humor.

9 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:27:27pm

re: #8 AntonSirius

Conspiracy Theory?

10 freetoken  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:29:44pm
… pointing out that the pope’s comments came on the Feast of Saint Rita, the Catholic patron saint of impossible things.

Would that be subsumed under the infinite improbability drive operation?

11 SteveMcGazi  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:35:37pm

The way I read the first statement, “People who aware of the Catholic church “cannot be saved†if they “refuse to enter her or remain in her” means to me that Catholics have to remain or stay with the Church. The Pope said “Do good”. You have competing directives, so I just go with the one that says do good.

12 freetoken  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:35:48pm

Saint Rita… would that be this one?

Or this one?

Maybe this one?

The last one is especially feast-worthy.

13 Political Atheist  Sat, May 25, 2013 7:52:52pm

re: #7 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards. Guess I’m going to burn in hell. There fore Fuck you “god” And may you burn in the same “hell” as me you arrogant bastard.

So it has been written, so it shall be done.

Sleep well. After all I only see men talking at a church. God is so far tonight silent on the controversy, and expected to remain so.

14 Zamb  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:19:20pm

This statement pissed off my evangelical friend from high school in a way that made me so happy. He’s been pushing Catholic ideology to promote his sick world view on women and gays. Bastard does nothing but post shit from some group called “the immorality of atheism.” You would think the only tenants of his religion were how horrible the people who disagree with him are.

As to the idea that God lets atheists in to heaven, I can’t see an “all forgiving god” requiring belief into Jesus as a prerequisite to salvation when he didn’t even reveal him to several continents for hundreds of years.

15 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:34:09pm

Whatever happened to papal infallibility?

I wonder if Francis realized he misspoke, and asked for this clarification, or if his papal staff, realizing Francis’ true intent, is now backpedaling to head off a major theological crisis within the ranks. Because if the Pope is saying atheists can enter Heaven by doing good works, then why do Catholics need to stay in Mother Church? Why can’t members of the orders marry? Why can’t Catholics use contraception? As long as they do good works, they’re covered.

I can picture the more conservative elements in the Church going apeshit hearing Francis’ remarks.

16 Kragar  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:47:58pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Feast of Saint Rita. Say no more.

Because what more could you say?

17 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:48:17pm

re: #15 wheat-dogghazi

Whatever happened to papal infallibility?

I wonder if Francis realized he misspoke, and asked for this clarification, or if his papal staff, realizing Francis’ true intent, is now backpedaling to head off a major theological crisis within the ranks. Because if the Pope is saying atheists can enter Heaven by doing good works, then why do Catholics need to stay in Mother Church? Why can’t members of the orders marry? Why can’t Catholics use contraception? As long as they do good works, they’re covered.

I can picture the more conservative elements in the Church going apeshit hearing Francis’ remarks.

Unlikely. Pope Francis is concerned with the welfare of the poor, but he should not be mistaken for a liberal. He’s a fairly traditionalist Jesuit, and his clarification is in line with the Bible. Jesus made clear that no one could approach the Father (and Salvation) except through Him. That we are saved is via His Grace ultimately, not by our own actions.

18 Zamb  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:48:18pm

re: #15 wheat-dogghazi
Well I would think the answer to those questions would be involving the degree of those good works. Perhaps you can’t just be an atheist or sinner, and volunteer at the local homeless shelter a couple times. To make up for not following the true belief you must be very good. As for priests marrying I don’t think that is a matter of getting into heaven but one of making a commitment to their faith over anything else, that those that tell others the will of God should have no other commitments. Not that I agree with that, but they are welcome to the organization that they like.

19 Zamb  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:51:07pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

When I was was a Catholic I always understood that line of “through him” as Jesus was sacrificing himself so that we could all attain salvation. Not that you needed to ask Jesus, but that because he suffered we could now be free of original sin.

20 Velvet Elvis  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:51:53pm

Why should I care about this guy’s popeularity club?

21 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:57:00pm

re: #15 wheat-dogghazi

I can picture the more conservative elements in the Church going apeshit hearing Francis’ remarks.

This. He knew exactly what he was saying and the implications of it. He’s a Jesuit folks.

We had a long discussion of this at a different website, I’d like to share what I said there:

“I didn’t realize I needed redemption. Not believing in it, and all that. Thanks, I guess?”

If you do or don’t isn’t so much the big deal as it is hearing someone expected to toe the “our way is the only way” line giving those people a great big raspberry. If he has a reasonably long life and continues to live up to his statements from these first few months it will be a politically big deal.

Not the least is because if he outlives some of the really rat crazies in the Curia & College of Cardinals while reviving the social justice and radical love of the original message he can be a one man reformation of a least as much strength as his namesake was 800 years ago. If he also lays the spiritual groundwork for people to be put first in place of dogma on things like homosexuality, woman’s priesthood, celibacy, family planning and so forth, he will have done more good than many are able.

No, he himself won’t make those leaps. But, as has been said (and forgive me for using Christian language here, it’s what I know):

It helps now and then to step back and take a long view.
The Kingdom is not only beyond our efforts,
it is beyond our vision.

We accomplish in our lifetime only a fraction
of the magnificent enterprise that is God’s work.
Nothing we do is complete, which is another way of
saying that the kingdom always lies beyond us.
No statement says all that could be said.
No prayer fully expresses our faith. No confession
brings perfection, no pastoral visit brings wholeness.
No program accomplishes the Church’s mission.
No set of goals and objectives include everything.

This is what we are about. We plant the seeds that one
day will grow. We water the seeds already planted
knowing that they hold future promise.
We lay foundations that will need further development.
We provide yeast that produces effects
far beyond our capabilities.

We cannot do everything, and there is a sense of
liberation in realizing this.
This enables us to do something, and to do it very well.
It may be incomplete, but it is a beginning,
a step along the way, an opportunity for the Lord’s
grace to enter and do the rest.
We may never see the end results, but that is the
difference between the master builder and the worker.

We are workers, not master builders, ministers, not
messiahs. We are prophets of a future not our own.

(As an aside, From Xavarian Missionaries:

Oscar A. Romero, Archbishop of San Salvador, in El Salvador, was assassinated on March 24, 1980, while celebrating Mass in a small chapel in a cancer hospital where he lived. He had always been close to his people, preached a prophetic gospel, denouncing the injustice in his country and supporting the development of popular and mass organizations. He became the voice of the Salvadoran people when all other channels of expression had been crushed by the repression.

This prayer was composed by Bishop Ken Untener of Saginaw, drafted for a homily by Card. John Dearden in Nov. 1979 for a celebration of departed priests. As a reflection on the anniversary of the martyrdom of Bishop Romero, Bishop Untener included it in a reflection titled “The mystery of the Romero Prayer.” The mystery is that the words of the prayer are attributed to Oscar Romero, but they were never spoken by him.

A hundred or a thousand years from now, they will still be said of Archbishop Romero and no one will remember Bishop Untener.

This is something important to remember when we refer back to scriptures that we don’t even have clue who wrote them - only attributions, and considering all the very different letters of Paul?

22 Amory Blaine  Sat, May 25, 2013 8:57:36pm

Salvation lies in the bingo parlor and the beer tent.

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:00:36pm

re: #22 Amory Blaine

Salvation lies in the bingo parlor and the beer tent.

Sartre was famous for saying that “Hell is other people”. It’s a pity he never noticed that so is salvation.

24 Kragar  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:05:29pm

“Hello sir or madam, please know that your actions for appx 75 years on Earth will impact your existence until the Heat Death of the Universe. Failure to act accordingly will doom you for eternity.”

“Um, where is the complaints department?”

25 GeneJockey  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:09:33pm

re: #5 jaunte

The crazy thing is, only Creationists, who appeal to Authority, would think it matters a tinkers dam whether Darwin recanted or not. One Creationist friend of mine keeps quotemining various books, etc., and simply DOES NOT GET the idea that it doesn’t matter what an “Authority” says, that the truth of Evolution doesn’t depend on who’s making the claim.

Authoritarians. Feh.

26 SteveMcGazi  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:14:28pm

With regards to the issue of papal infallibility, the Pope is not infallible in everything he says. The infallibility thang is when the Pope settles some sort of theological or doctrinal dispute by issuing an infallible statement.

27 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:22:36pm

re: #26 SteveMcGazi

With regards to the issue of papal infallibility, the Pope is not infallible in everything he says. The infallibility thang is when the Pope settles some sort of theological or doctrinal dispute by issuing an infallible statement.

The magic words are that he is speaking “ex cathedra” and the other thing to remember is that it is a very new concept (officially only about 150 years old at Vatican One) and that several of the Popes since then have explicitly stated they do not believe in it. John XXIII for example. Thankfully the Anglican Communion broke off long before that bit of fancy came along so I don’t have to be too excited about it either way :)

28 Bob Dillon  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:28:43pm

“See? That’s why you always need to read the fine print.”

AKA: What the big print givith the fine print taketh away.

29 freetoken  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:29:28pm

re: #25 GeneJockey

A great deal of human behavior can be ascribed to wanting to belong to the right group, and that “right group” is defined as the one following the right person, and thus that person is the authority.

At heart, we’re still just primates looking to follow an alpha male, who’ll fight our battles for us and make sure we have access to the best feeding grounds.

Which in my case means loquat trees.

30 erik_t  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:41:55pm

re: #27 William Barnett-Lewis

The magic words are that he is speaking “ex cathedra” and the other thing to remember is that it is a very new concept (officially only about 150 years old at Vatican One) and that several of the Popes since then have explicitly stated they do not believe in it. John XXIII for example. Thankfully the Anglican Communion broke off long before that bit of fancy came along so I don’t have to be too excited about it either way :)

Both very new and very rare. I think there have been two Ex Cathedra statements/proclimations/whatever, ever.

If I were to say that the doctrine gets more attention than it really merits, it would probably be the understatement of the week.

31 LWNJ  Sat, May 25, 2013 9:58:11pm

Ummm… it’s core tenet, not core tenant.

On the subject, as Lazarus Long said, “Soon, you will know.” In the meantime, why sweat it?

32 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, May 25, 2013 10:21:57pm

re: #31 LWNJ

Ummm… it’s core tenet, not core tenant.

On the subject, as Lazarus Long said, “Soon, you will know.” In the meantime, why sweat it?

Of course, one of the fundamental conceits of Heinlein is that Mr. Long never would know as he was supposed to be immortal.

And so, it’s after midnight here in the Midwest, so it’s time to go. Not exactly a hot topic or one anyone here wants to hear us god botherers blat about. I’ll leave you all with a good night and go fall asleep to a recording of Guillaume de Machaut’s Messe de Nostre Dame (from circa 1350). It may or may not mean anything; the beauty remains no matter what else is true.

33 BigPapa  Sat, May 25, 2013 10:47:08pm
34 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!  Sat, May 25, 2013 10:48:06pm

Ah. Ok. Well now we know. As a non believer I was always worried I could go to Christian heaven.

//

35 AntonSirius  Sat, May 25, 2013 10:55:49pm

re: #9 ProTARDISLiberal

Conspiracy Theory?

One of the best… JP the First was supposedly offed because he wasn’t going to play ball and would blow the lid off the Vatican Bank scandal, which Opus Dei had its tentacles in, so they poisoned him a month into his papacy.

The book that best espouses the theory is In God’s Name by David Yallop, which is sadly out of print. Of course that came out back in the days when you actually had to lay out a plausible conspiracy theory, with understandable motives and such, to get any attention. Alex Jones’ idiocy has really debased the whole art form.

EDIT: Actually, Amazon says there’s a Kindle version. Outstanding.

36 Nemesis6  Sat, May 25, 2013 10:59:12pm

Instead of reading the fine print, just don’t listen to them in the first place. It’s so much simpler to ignore them.

37 Kragar  Sat, May 25, 2013 11:01:40pm

re: #34 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!

Ah. Ok. Well now we know. As a non believer I was always worried I could go to Christian heaven.

//

Screw it, lets make our own heaven… with blackjack and hookers

38 Egregious Philbin  Sat, May 25, 2013 11:12:03pm

Here you see two things: A new pope who dosn’t know what he is supposed to say (or not say), and the entrenched RC Vatican old guard, desperately trying to cling to some relevance in an ever increasingly rational world.

Good for Francis, bad for the corrupt PTB that run the religion.

39 freetoken  Sat, May 25, 2013 11:25:01pm
40 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 12:01:21am

re: #37 Kragar

Screw it, lets make our own heaven… with blackjack and hookers

Skip the blackjack.

41 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 12:15:58am

re: #36 Nemesis6

Instead of reading the fine print, just don’t listen to them in the first place. It’s so much simpler to ignore them.

I will take them seriously the day that the College of Cardinals and Cardinelles convenes to elect the new Pope/ss (Popette?)

42 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 12:21:55am

re: #39 freetoken

[Embedded content]

that’s my man pops from the 1930s when even though he was still a young man not yet 40 he still sang with a worldly wisdom worth 40 popes, even if some of them were medicis

43 FemNaziBitch  Sun, May 26, 2013 12:32:19am

No suprises here.

When the “Church” decides I am a human being, I might be suprised.

44 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 12:56:33am

There is no level of understanding at which church doctrine stops being self-contradictory.

It is a serious problem for humanity that the number of people who feel contradiction strongly enough that they can’t accept nonsense are too small to affect the evolution of society.

The same can be said for the way dogma is not only blatantly manipulative but actually MAXIMALLY manipulative, the expression of the idea of “hell” being the maximum threat that can be made in human language. One would think that being threatened with the maximum threat that is expressible in language (and with no visible way to carry it out) would be recognized as such, as a communication that is suspicious and most likely to be a lie or delusion.

It’s clear that people learn skepticism too late in our development, and once learned we lack the ability to apply it to concepts already absorbed.

The human mind is shockingly poor at the basic skills of thought.

45 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 12:58:22am

original sin, an eternity in hell, salvation by faith - these are doctrines jesus never heard of and would be shocked and horrified to hear preached in his name

jesus was a good jew and believed in our jewish doctrine that god wants you to be a just and benevolent human being, no more, no less

“the rest is commentary”

46 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:02:42am

re: #45 engineer cat

I’m not a Christian, but I suspect that Jesus was quite the megalomanic:

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” That sure sounds like salvation in the cult of him.

As for the idea of hell, I’d be interested to see where it comes in in the bible.

47 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:04:39am

re: #32 William Barnett-Lewis

extra updings for mentioning guillaume de machaut

48 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:07:27am

re: #46 stabby

I’m not a Christian, but I suspect that Jesus was quite the megalomanic:

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” That sure sounds like salvation in the cult of him.

As for the idea of hell, I’d be interested to see where it comes in in the bible.

that crazy mystic john may have put it in his mouth but i refuse to believe he ever said it

i’ll take the jewish jesus in matthew, mark, and luke

49 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:13:13am

Also, if the idea of “hell” is a misreading of older scriptures that actually said something totally different then it’s interesting to ask “was that misreading deliberate?”

If you go into a Baptist Church and tell them that their translation is illiterate, imagine how little good that will do.

50 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:15:49am

re: #46 stabby

As for the idea of hell, I’d be interested to see where it comes in in the bible.

there is no hell in judaism, no original sin, no being saved or damned

the rabbis believe that god makes a bad person lie in his grave for a year suffering the pain of remorse as he/she contemplates every time in their life when they hurt another person, before they can lie in peace

51 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:20:24am

re: #49 stabby

Also, if the idea of “hell” is a misreading of older scriptures that actually said something totally different then it’s interesting to ask “was that misreading deliberate?”

If you go into a Baptist Church and tell them that their translation is illiterate, imagine how little good that will do.

christians have had 2000 years to practice the art of imagining that the bible says what they want it to say, not what it actually says

they see the word ‘hell’, the hebrew word ‘sheol’ , and believe that it means the place of eternal torment described by fire and brimstone preachers - but no such description appears in the bible

52 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:20:52am

re: #50 engineer cat

there is no hell in judaism, no original sin, no being saved or damned

the rabbis believe that god makes a bad person lie in his grave for a year suffering the pain of remorse as he/she contemplates every time in their life when they hurt another person, before they can lie in peace

One can see how one manipulative, (and vindictive) lie about being tortured in a pit after death could be maximally amplified into hell.

Actually, I think it is a mammalian instinct to amplify social indications of danger. Think of it as the pre-verbal way that animals pass down the knowledge of what things are dangerous. The young have to be overly sensitive to every sign of fear by adults, without understanding, and be willing to follow that fear and pass it on - so that poisonous plants and enemies will be avoided.

53 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:22:23am

Think of it as an amplification circuit. What the parents fear, the children will be petrified of and not know why. This also explains taboos.

54 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:25:46am

re: #52 stabby

One can see how one manipulative, (and vindictive) lie about being tortured in a pit after death could be maximally amplified into hell.

suffering remorse is not at all the same as being tortured, and in any case this belief of the rabbis is not from the bible

the bible in fact says basically nothing about what happens after death. the hebrew parts that christians seize on and amplify mostly talk about being “cast in the pit”, whatever that was supposed to mean…

55 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:29:19am

Islam, on the other hand, explicitly has both heaven and hell.

:/

56 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:31:40am

re: #46 stabby

I’m not a Christian, but I suspect that Jesus was quite the megalomanic:

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” That sure sounds like salvation in the cult of him.

As for the idea of hell, I’d be interested to see where it comes in in the bible.

Hell to a lot of Christians is the “external separation from G_d.

Which can be referenced here:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

57 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:34:10am

re: #56 Usually refered to as anyways

Hell to a lot of Christians is the “external separation from G_d.

Which can be referenced here:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Which explains why many cannot fathom atheists, who not only cut themselves off from God, but deny God even exists. Mental short-circuits for them.

58 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:36:58am

re: #57 wheat-dogghazi

Glen Beck certainly short circuited on that Atheist tornado survivor the other day, saying that she was “planted by forces of spiritual darkness”

I guess Atheists can’t be good natured mothers with giggling babies, they have to all be suffering heroin addicted prostitutes. Any other depiction is a lie directly orchestrated by Satan himself!

59 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:40:38am

re: #44 stabby

Thought isn’t a basic skill.

60 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:41:29am

re: #56 Usually refered to as anyways

Hell to a lot of Christians is the “external separation from G_d.

Which can be referenced here:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

the rabbis speculate that good people after death might be privileged to be closer to god, in some vague way. that’s probably where the writer of thessalinians gets his idea. but you can see from these quotes that even in the new testament there are only vague references that christians must interpret and amplify in order to imagine that they refer to the fire and brimstone place of eternal torment for all who do not accept christ as lord

i mean, you can see with your own eyes that what you have quoted says no such thing

61 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:43:05am

re: #59 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

Perhaps reading isn’t either since I said “basic skills of thought”

That’s a plural. There is more than one method to sound judgement.

62 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:44:13am

re: #60 engineer cat

the rabbis speculate that good people after death might be privileged to be closer to god, in some vague way. that’s probably where the writer of thessalinians gets his idea.

You seem to be missing a basic tenant of Christianity.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

63 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:44:32am

matthew 25:41, Young’s Literal Translation:

Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

64 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:45:38am

re: #62 Usually refered to as anyways

You seem to be missing a basic tenant of Christianity.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

i’m afraid i don’t understand your point

65 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:46:26am

re: #63 engineer cat

matthew 25:41, Young’s Literal Translation:

Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

Yes, there are many examples:

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

66 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:48:51am

re: #65 Usually refered to as anyways

Yes, there are many examples:

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Could that be translated as “fear him who can destroy both body and soul in the grave?”

67 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:48:58am

re: #64 engineer cat

i’m afraid i don’t understand your point

Christianity teaches, “you can’t have salvation through deeds.”

So being “good” won’t cut it.

That’s why Christ sacrificed himself, so that those who believe in him would have eternal life.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

68 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:50:16am

re: #67 Usually refered to as anyways

Engineer Cat doesn’t like John.

What would the other gospels say without John?

69 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:52:29am

re: #66 stabby

Could that be translated as “fear him who can destroy both body and soul in the grave?”

I’m not sure that I should be the one to decide, but here are the many variations and some thoughts below on the verse.

70 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:53:44am

in judaism, the point is that god charges you to be a just, charitable, and righteous person

in other words, judaism is all about good works

if some forms of christianity preach ‘salvation’ only through faith, or even more radically, salvation only through ‘grace’ - that is, in the special christian meaning of ‘grace’ as unearned relief granted only by god’s mercy and having nothing to do with merit, faith, or works

well, from the jewish point of view this turns the whole thing on its head and makes a mockery of a righteous man’s struggle to act well in his life and please god by just, charitable, kind, and righteous actions

there, i said it

71 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:54:54am

re: #70 engineer cat

I’ve felt something similar about what Mohammad does to the story of Jesus.

Each religion is based on a mockery of the previous.

72 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:57:27am

In Mohammad’s version, God disguises and sends a youth to suffer and die in Jesus’ place, Jesus being too important for that sort of thing. Then Jesus goes straight to heaven without bothering with any suffering or dying.

The morals of this story seeming to be:
1) young people are disposable
2) Important people can skip all the suffering
3) Salvation, ha! What were you talking about?

73 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:58:17am

re: #68 stabby

Engineer Cat doesn’t like John.

What would the other gospels say without John?

In my first relpy to you, I gave you Mathew the author of which (I believe) is anonymous.

I also gave you 2 Thessalonians, and Ephesians which were authored by Paul (Saul who was blinded on the road to Damascus)

I believe John was the youngest of the apostles, and dies at 96 on the Island of Patmos.

I could be wrong though.

74 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:58:36am

re: #67 Usually refered to as anyways

Christianity teaches, “you can’t have salvation through deeds.”

So being “good” won’t cut it.

That’s why Christ sacrificed himself, so that those who believe in him would have eternal life.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

as i said in my #70

if your doctrine is “being good won’t cut it”, i’m afaid i consider that a diabolical doctrine that mocks the righteous life

i’ll tell you one thing - it sure as hell isn’t judaism, and i refuse to believe jesus believed anything remotely like that

75 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:00:27am

re: #70 engineer cat

in judaism, the point is that god charges you to be a just, charitable, and righteous person

in other words, judaism is all about good works

if some forms of christianity preach ‘salvation’ only through faith, or even more radically, salvation only through ‘grace’ - that is, in the special christian meaning of ‘grace’ as unearned relief granted only by god’s mercy and having nothing to do with merit, faith, or works

well, from the jewish point of view this turns the whole thing on its head and makes a mockery of a righteous man’s struggle to act well in his life and please god by just, charitable, kind, and righteous actions

there, i said it

Why were/are they waiting for a saviour?

76 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:01:11am

Also in Mohammad’s version, Jesus was a Muslim to be distinguished from his (their) persecutors who weren’t Romans, they were Jews…

I can only bury my face in my hands.

77 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:02:49am

re: #74 engineer cat

i’ll tell you one thing - it sure as hell isn’t judaism, and i refuse to believe jesus believed anything remotely like that

Then I will assume your belief if not found in the Christian doctrine.

Christ speaking John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

s/found/founded/g

78 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:03:44am

re: #68 stabby

Engineer Cat doesn’t like John.

What would the other gospels say without John?

try this:

go through the gospel of matthew and cut and paste out every place where it says ‘jesus said’ such and such, and read that. you will see a jesus there that bears very little resemblance to ‘christianity’

i’ll go get a link to my blog where i did exactly that and paste it for you in my next comment

79 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:06:27am

re: #75 Usually refered to as anyways

Why were/are they waiting for a saviour?

If it hadn’t been taken off of youtube you’d get the Hitch Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy where the Great Prophet Zarquon FINALLY appears seconds before the end of the universe:

“ZARQUON:
Sorry I’m a bit late, had a terrible time… All sort of things cropping up at the last moment. How are we for time? Umm - [The universe explodes]”

80 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:07:02am

re: #75 Usually refered to as anyways

Why were/are they waiting for a saviour?

to kick out the pagan roman/greek overlords and bring an (earthly) kingdom of such righteousness that all the nations of the world would recognize it as just and righteous and follow its example

that’s what it actually says in isaiah if you care to read it plainly, without ‘interpretations’

81 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:09:40am

re: #80 engineer cat

to kick out the pagan roman/greek overlords and bring an (earthly) kingdom of such righteousness that all the nations of the world would recognize it as just and righteous and follow its example

that’s what it actually says in isaiah if you care to read it plainly, without ‘interpretations’

So is it your view they no longer waiting for the Messiah?

82 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:10:36am

re: #81 Usually refered to as anyways

I think most aren’t.

83 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:10:47am

here, read the words of jesus as quoted in matthew, straight up and without ‘christanity’

cassandramirror.blogspot.com

84 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:11:56am

re: #82 stabby

I think most aren’t.

Practising Jews?

85 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:14:14am

re: #81 Usually refered to as anyways

So is it your view they no longer waiting for the Messiah?

i would ask you to put out of your mind the idea that ‘the messiah’ in judaism is the same as ‘the messiah’ as you heard about him in church, and go around and ask a reform jewish rabbi, an orthodox jewish rabbi, and a hassidic jewish rabbi about what ‘the messiah’ means to them, and then you will know more about it

86 freetoken  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:15:39am

re: #83 engineer cat

here, read the words of jesus as quoted in matthew, straight up and without ‘christanity’

cassandramirror.blogspot.com

Unlikely. The synoptic “Sermon on the Mount” is most definitely a composite of various sermons, definitely at different times, possibly from different people, and redacted to be published later in the three synoptic gospels.

The “Beatitudes” and the “Lord’s Prayer” fit well with other Jewish preaching of the time.

I’m convinced that there were multiple personages involved (over about a hundred years) that later were wrapped up into a singular mythic story.

87 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:16:18am

re: #84 Usually refered to as anyways

I had a rabbi who actually believed he knew who the Messiah was, a guy who was still alive at that point or just died… (I know almost nothing about Judaism but I come from a Jewish family).

Most Jews never mention the Messiah at all.

88 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:17:31am

re: #85 engineer cat

i would ask you to put out of your mind the idea that ‘the messiah’ in judaism is the same as ‘the messiah’ as you heard about him in church

Why do you presume I heard it in church?

go around and ask a reform jewish rabbi, an orthodox jewish rabbi, and a hassidic jewish rabbi about what ‘the messiah’ means to them, and then you will know more about it

Please explain it to me.

89 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:21:08am

re: #87 stabby

I had a rabbi who actually believed he knew who the Messiah was, a guy who was still alive at that point or just died… (I know almost nothing about Judaism but I come from a Jewish family).

Most Jews never mention the Messiah at all.

Judaism 101

90 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:21:35am

re: #77 Usually refered to as anyways

Then I will assume your belief if not found in the Christian doctrine.

Christ speaking John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

well, i have never been a christian

but, tell me: does jesus here say that god will make you burn in hell forever if you do not accept jesus as savior, even if you have been a good person all of your life?

i think not

in fact, what he says soon after is this:

“23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

so, tell me - what ‘teachings’ is he referring to?

91 freetoken  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:22:41am

Since y’all are into judgement and hell and such, here is “Tuba Mirum” (i.e., The Trumpet), from Dvorak’s Requiem:

MP3 Audio

92 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:23:07am

re: #61 stabby

Perhaps reading isn’t either since I said “basic skills of thought”

That’s a plural. There is more than one method to sound judgement.

None of the ‘skills of thought’, whatever those are, are basic. There’s no aspect of thought that’s not complex.

Ironically, you kind of prove this with your “Islam is the most evil religion” pile of tortured logic.

93 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:23:24am

re: #90 engineer cat

well, i have never been a christian

but, tell me: does jesus here say that god will make you burn in hell forever if you do not accept jesus as savior, even if you have been a good person all of your life?

i think not

in fact, what he says soon after is this:

“23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

so, tell me - what ‘teachings’ is he referring to?

Christ wrapped up the 10 commandments into a single command.
Love one another.

94 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:26:14am

re: #88 Usually refered to as anyways

Why do you presume I heard it in church?

Please explain it to me.

perhaps you’ve never heard the famous joke that we jews love to tell about ourselves:

“if you have 10 jews in a room, you’ll have at least 11 opinions on any subject”

that’s why i suggest getting at least one opinion from the reform, orthodox, and hassidic branches

just for starters

95 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:26:40am

re: #93 Usually refered to as anyways

Christ wrapped up the 10 commandments into a single command.
Love one another.

Wrapping almost always improves things.

Though Engineer Cat might agree with me that The Microsoft Foundation Classes are an exception.

96 freetoken  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:27:30am

That’s an especially great piece of music, btw.

97 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:28:29am

re: #94 engineer cat

perhaps you’ve never heard the famous joke that we jews love to tell about ourselves:

“if you have 10 jews in a room, you’ll have at least 11 opinions on any subject”

that’s why i suggest getting at least one opinion from the reform, orthodox, and hassidic branches

just for starters

I’m in Stralia, most of my Jewish friends speak of and are aware of ‘The Messiah’ or ‘The anointed One’.

Perhaps its different in the states, I wouldn’t know.

98 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:31:26am

re: #93 Usually refered to as anyways

Christ wrapped up the 10 commandments into a single command.
Love one another.

re: #67 Usually refered to as anyways

Christianity teaches, “you can’t have salvation through deeds.”

So being “good” won’t cut it.

That’s why Christ sacrificed himself, so that those who believe in him would have eternal life.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

pick one

99 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:31:29am

re: #95 stabby

Wrapping almost always improves things.

Though Engineer Cat might agree with me that The Microsoft Foundation Classes are an exception.

Debian fan here.

100 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:33:45am

re: #98 engineer cat

re: #67 Usually refered to as anyways

pick one

Do you think that is a contradiction?

101 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:35:40am

re: #97 Usually refered to as anyways

I’m in Stralia, most of my Jewish friends speak of and are aware of ‘The Messiah’ or ‘The anointed One’.

Perhaps its different in the states, I wouldn’t know.

i don’t believe i said anything like jews don’t speak of the messiah, but if you took the time to attend a number of jewish services, you would discover that much time is spent on thinking about how to be a good person, and very little on the messiah or worrying about what might happen to us after we die

it’s as simple as that

102 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:38:12am

re: #101 engineer cat

i don’t believe i said anything like jews don’t speak of the messiah, but if you took the time to attend a number of jewish services, you would discover that much time is spent on thinking about how to be a good person, and very little on the messiah or worrying about what might happen to us after we die

it’s as simple as that

I agree, the Jewish faithful live by the law.
That doesn’t mean they are not awaiting the Messiah/Anointed One.

Do you have any idea how many Jewish services I have been to?

103 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:38:13am

re: #100 Usually refered to as anyways

Do you think that is a contradiction?

either your actions as you try to be a good person are important, or they are not

“being good won’t cut it”

that’s what you said

104 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:38:49am

re: #99 Usually refered to as anyways

Debian fan here.

The only joke I know is:

Ubuntu is an African word that means…

“I can’t configure Debian”

I have Lubuntu installed in a vm in my machine. That’s Ubuntu with the light weight LXDE desktop and an installer that downloads proprietary drivers (f**k u, GNU).

105 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:39:30am

re: #103 engineer cat

“being good won’t cut it”

No, what I said is that that is Christian theology.

106 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:40:50am

re: #104 stabby

The only joke I know is:

Ubuntu is an African word that means…

“I can’t configure Debian”

Thats funny.

Hadn’t heard that, but I will steal it, take it as my own and use it.

Bwhaaaa, mwhaaaa

107 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:40:57am

re: #102 Usually refered to as anyways

I agree, the Jewish faithful live by the law.
That doesn’t mean they are not awaiting the Messiah/Anointed One.

Do you have any idea how many Jewish services I have been to?

did i say anywhere that jews are not waiting for the messiah?

i did not

but, i’ll tell you, in the meantime we are making sure to get moving on the ‘good deeds’ part

108 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:42:33am

Arguing over whether ancient religions have pleasing moral aesthetics isn’t actually important unless you believe that morals should come from religion.

My opinion is that taking advice on how to live from books that are thousands of years old is as ridiculous as taking medical advice from books that are out of date.

109 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:42:52am

re: #104 stabby

The only joke I know is:

Ubuntu is an African word that means…

“I can’t configure Debian”

I have Lubuntu installed in a vm in my machine. That’s Ubuntu with the light weight LXDE desktop and an installer that downloads proprietary drivers (f**k u, GNU).

I use Ubuntu at home, just cos I like the UI.

I use debian on all my internet servers, and put them in businesses and corps, and do the admin on them.

110 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:43:05am

re: #105 Usually refered to as anyways

No, what I said is that that is Christian theology.

you said “being good won’t cut it”

if that’s christianity, include me out

111 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:45:53am

re: #109 Usually refered to as anyways

I tried to install Ubuntu 12 in a vm and the UI was unusable.

Seriously, I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how to start a command prompt before I gave up and wiped it.

And it was rendering buttons with OpenGL which made it SLOOOW in the vm.

112 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:46:56am

re: #110 engineer cat

you said “being good won’t cut it”

if that’s christianity, include me out

I didn’t enter the thread to cut anyone in or out.

Stabby asked about ‘hell’ in Christianity and where are its roots in the bible.
I pasted some scriptures showing where Christians get that idea.

The new testament teaches that its by faith you are saved, not works.
Its not my fault its in the book, relax.

I’m not trying to piss anyone off here…

113 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:48:18am

re: #108 stabby

Arguing over whether ancient religions have pleasing moral aesthetics isn’t actually important unless you believe that morals should come from religion.

My opinion is that taking advice on how to live from books that are thousands of years old is as ridiculous as taking medical advice from books that are out of date.

in about 80 BC or so, as the old story goes, a pagan king visited rabbi hillel and told him he would convert to judaism if hillel could explain it while standing on one foot

the rabbi stood on one foot and said:

“don’t do unto others what you wouldn’t have done unto yourself. that is the whole of the law and the prophets.

the rest is commentary”


good enough for me

114 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:48:47am

re: #111 stabby

I tried to install Ubuntu 12 in a vm and the UI was unusable.

Seriously, I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how to start a command prompt before I gave up and wiped it.

And it was rendering buttons with OpenGL which made it SLOOOW in the vm.

I like a command line, but the older I get I find myself installing midnight commander at install time…

The utility for the command prompt is called terminal.

115 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:49:01am

I installed Ubuntu on my android tablet (with a chroot trick).
It has configuration problems up the kazoo because of floating point abi incompatibility between Oracle Java 7 (which I installed) and the fast float version of the OS I installed …

116 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:55:03am

re: #113 engineer cat

in about 80 BC or so, as the old story goes, a pagan king visited rabbi hillel and told him he would convert to judaism if hillel could explain it while standing on one foot

the rabbi stood on one foot and said:

“don’t do unto others what you wouldn’t have done unto yourself. that is the whole of the law and the prophets.

the rest is commentary”

good enough for me

Not unlike Christ’s ‘love one another’, if we loved one another we would not do what the Rabbi said.

Useless fact, Louis 14th stole the minuet from the peasants around 1653, something to do with his music master Beauchamp from memory…

117 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:55:29am

re: #113 engineer cat

Cute, but I prefer the Buddhist kings who converted Tibetan king (and therefore his kingdom) to Buddhism by training their daughters in both Buddhism and Tantra (sex :) ) and sending them to be his wives. Oddly these princesses were both named Tara even though one was Nepalise and one Chinese. Or perhaps they were both incarnations of the Goddess Tara.

Anyway Taras are my favs.

Give me religion that’s fun and so obviously myth that you won’t get in trouble if you name your brand of toothpaste after any of your gods or goddesses.

118 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:56:04am

I like how the discussion here has morphed from debating the tenets of different religions to the usability of different flavors of Linux.

Linux does not have a Messiah, as far as I know, however.

119 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 2:58:03am

re: #118 wheat-dogghazi

I like how the discussion here has morphed from debating the tenets of different religions to the usability of different flavors of Linux.

Linux does not have a Messiah, as far as I know, however.

All hail Linus Torvalds, hail, hail,hail…

120 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:00:04am

re: #112 Usually refered to as anyways

I didn’t enter the thread to cut anyone in or out.

Stabby asked about ‘hell’ in Christianity and where are its roots in the bible.
I pasted some scriptures showing where Christians get that idea.

The new testament teaches that its by faith you are saved, not works.
Its not my fault its in the book, relax.

I’m not trying to piss anyone off here…

1) the word translated as ‘hell’ does not necessarily mean to people who lived 1900 years ago or more what people living today told you they think it means

the definitions of many familiar looking words in shakespeare don’t even mean the same thing that they meant 400 years ago ferkrissakes

2) altho it does actually say in one place in the new testament that ‘by faith alone you shall be saved’, in other places in the new testament it says ‘what good is faith without good works?’

but judaism is about good works and morality, not ‘faith’ as something that can have meaning by itself

imho there is what it actually says in the bible - without ‘interpretation’ - and there is christian doctrine, and they diverge

121 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:03:40am

re: #120 engineer cat

2) altho it does actually say in one place in the new testament that ‘by faith alone you shall be saved’, in other places in the new testament it says ‘what good is faith without good works?’

Christians will tell you that your good works are ‘born of the spirit’ that ‘lives inside you’ from accepting Christ as ‘Lord and Saviour’.

It is the ‘fruit of the spirit’.

And that they come, not from effort…

s/your/they're/g
2nd edit: s/your/their/g

122 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:06:08am

The new Linux penguin looks a little discombobulated:

Image: Linux_wallpapers_233.jpg

Maybe he ate some bad fish or is watching Google turn one of his brothers into an android.

123 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:07:29am

re: #116 Usually refered to as anyways

Not unlike Christ’s ‘love one another’, if we loved one another we would not do what the Rabbi said.

Useless fact, Louis 14th stole the minuet from the peasants around 1653, something to do with his music master Beauchamp from memory…

well the next time somebody tells you good deeds don’t cut it and won’t save you from eternal torment in hell, please remind them that christ told us to love one another, and that ought to mean something - ok?

124 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:08:15am

re: #121 Usually refered to as anyways

Christians will tell you that your good works are ‘born of the spirit’ that ‘lives inside you’ from accepting Christ as ‘Lord and Saviour’.

It is the ‘fruit of the spirit’.

And that they come, not from effort…

:/ so they can’t even process the fact that non-Christians have good works.

I heard one asshole Dominionist say that secular people who give to charity are part of the “whore” religion that will support the antichrist.

He used Oprah Winfree as an example.

125 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:09:30am

re: #121 Usually refered to as anyways

Christians will tell you that your good works are ‘born of the spirit’ that ‘lives inside you’ from accepting Christ as ‘Lord and Saviour’.

It is the ‘fruit of the spirit’.

And that they come, not from effort…

s/your/they’re/g
2nd edit: s/your/their/g

too many people who say that never seem to get past the ‘you’re gonna burn in hell part’ to the part where they get around to actually helping other people

126 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:10:35am

re: #120 engineer cat

1) the word translated as ‘hell’ does not necessarily mean to people who lived 1900 years ago or more what people living today told you they think it means

the definitions of many familiar looking words in shakespeare don’t even mean the same thing that they meant 400 years ago ferkrissakes

2) altho it does actually say in one place in the new testament that ‘by faith alone you shall be saved’, in other places in the new testament it says ‘what good is faith without good works?’

but judaism is about good works and morality, not ‘faith’ as something that can have meaning by itself

imho there is what it actually says in the bible - without ‘interpretation’ - and there is christian doctrine, and they diverge

And also very importantly, Judaism does not place emphasis on the afterlife. Some Jews and forms of Judaism believe in the afterlife, others don’t, and all believe that doing actions on earth with the expectation of reward makes the whole deal pointless.

127 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:10:47am

re: #123 engineer cat

well the next time somebody tells you good deeds don’t cut it and won’t save you from eternal torment in hell, please remind them that christ told us to love one another, and that ought to mean something - ok?

You seem to have taken offence to my explanation of Christian doctrine.
My apologies.

128 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:11:36am

re: #124 stabby

:/ so they can’t even process the fact that non-Christians have good works.

I heard one asshole Dominionist say that secular people who give to charity are part of the “whore” religion that will support the antichrist.

He used Oprah Winfree as an example.

I have met lots of judgemental people, sad really.

129 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:12:25am

re: #125 engineer cat

too many people who say that never seem to get past the ‘you’re gonna burn in hell part’ to the part where they get around to actually helping other people

True that…

130 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:14:46am

re: #113 engineer cat

in about 80 BC or so, as the old story goes, a pagan king visited rabbi hillel and told him he would convert to judaism if hillel could explain it while standing on one foot

the rabbi stood on one foot and said:

“don’t do unto others what you wouldn’t have done unto yourself. that is the whole of the law and the prophets.

the rest is commentary”

good enough for me

I would like to point out this is a terrible moral rule, unless you get really meta with it, and even then it’s non-functional as an ethical rule.

For example, I wake up at five or five-thirty and I’m immediately happy and filled with energy. I’m a morning person beyond morning persons. So what I like first thing in the day is conversation, working out, energetic things.

My wife wakes up, if she wakes up early, painfully and grumpily. The last thing she wants is conversation and activity. She needs coffee, food, and to wake up slowly.

If I treated her the way I want to be treated, or her me, it’d be bad for both of us.

So maybe we can broaden it to “Do unto others as they would have done unto them”? But then we run into the problem that some people’s desires are greedy, unethical, or bad for them. A heroin addict wants another hit, they don’t want to get clean. So in order to really make the golden rule work there, we either have to argue that it’s not about what people want, but what they really need, or that we all really want to be treated in our best interests and ignore the current ‘want’ in favor of the larger assumed ‘want’ of getting over heroin.

131 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:15:03am

re: #128 Usually refered to as anyways

His entire sect is like that.

VERY VERY VERY extreme.

They’re the ones who think that the world is run by demons.

They name these demons.

They give them geographic areas.

They consider the statue of Liberty a demonic idol.

I think I read a headline by one about the 18 different demons who have had dealings with Obama.

I’ve read that they don’t believe in the rapture, rather they believe that when the second coming happens it will be up to them to fight the armies of the antichrist… And some of them are stockpiling weapons and teaching young people to shoot in order to get ready.

Fun stuff.

132 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:18:27am

re: #127 Usually refered to as anyways

You seem to have taken offence to my explanation of Christian doctrine.
My apologies.

i’m sorry if i lost my temper, but the whole notion that anything would be more important than treating one’s fellow man well, and especially the idea that jesus was preaching that this was less important than ‘accepting him as savior’ - well, it really pisses the hell outta me

133 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:18:37am

re: #130 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

I would like to point out this is a terrible moral rule, unless you get really meta with it, and even then it’s non-functional as an ethical rule.

For example, I wake up at five or five-thirty and I’m immediately happy and filled with energy. I’m a morning person beyond morning persons. So what I like first thing in the day is conversation, working out, energetic things.

My wife wakes up, if she wakes up early, painfully and grumpily. The last thing she wants is conversation and activity. She needs coffee, food, and to wake up slowly.

If I treated her the way I want to be treated, or her me, it’d be bad for both of us.

So maybe we can broaden it to “Do unto others as they would have done unto them”? But then we run into the problem that some people’s desires are greedy, unethical, or bad for them. A heroin addict wants another hit, they don’t want to get clean. So in order to really make the golden rule work there, we either have to argue that it’s not about what people want, but what they really need, or that we all really want to be treated in our best interests and ignore the current ‘want’ in favor of the larger assumed ‘want’ of getting over heroin.

I think the: Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Would include being respectful of what they need.

134 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:18:40am

They also are quite popular these days with TV megachurches… whatever that means.

135 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:20:26am

re: #130 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

argued like a true talmudist

136 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:20:29am

re: #124 stabby

:/ so they can’t even process the fact that non-Christians have good works.

I heard one asshole Dominionist say that secular people who give to charity are part of the “whore” religion that will support the antichrist.

He used Oprah Winfree as an example.

Dominionists are scary people. They’re the Christian version of the Taliban.

137 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:21:52am

re: #133 Usually refered to as anyways

I think the: Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Would include being respectful of what they need.

Youtube Video

138 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:22:10am

re: #132 engineer cat

i’m sorry if i lost my temper, but the whole notion that anything would be more important than treating one’s fellow man well, and especially the idea that jesus was preaching that this was less important than ‘accepting him as savior’ - well, it really pisses the hell outta me

Glad you have taken your Grrr face off :)

You may have to remain pissed at Christ though, as it is what the new testament teaches.

You can walk away and choose between Lord, liar or lunatic.
I suppose a 4th option would be that its not an accurate book.

139 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:24:59am

re: #137 stabby

[Embedded content]

I must be getting old, couldn’t understand a word he sang.

I blame the years of playing in rock n roll bands when I was young.

140 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:25:43am

re: #139 Usually refered to as anyways

No one can understand. Bad recording.

I just chose it for the title “Do unto others, then split!”

141 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:26:18am

re: #131 stabby

Hey Stabby, this comparative religion discussion seems perfect for addressing your long-standing claim that Islam is the worst major religion.

Your support for this is twofold:

1. You assert that you’ve read the Qu’Ran, compared it to other texts,and likewise studied the character of Mohammed and compared him to the important figures in other religions, and from your analysis the Qu’Ran contains the most evil instructions and Mohammed is the most destructive ideal.

2. You assert that simply by looking at the world today, we can see more Muslim extremists, therefore Islam is more extreme.

My criticisms of this are:

1a. That your supposed study is unproven, and that the Tanakh contains a lot of really horrific stuff in it as instructions from god, and a lot of heroes that do ethically terrible things, like genocide, rape, etc. You haven’t addressed why, with such a violent text and unethical heroes, you don’t think that Judaism has the same inherent flaws as Islam.

1b. It’s trivially demonstrable that most Christians don’t live their lives in anything like a christ-like way, so on what basis do you think the example of Christ makes Christians behave in a certain way?

2a. By looking at various points in history, we can see that at some times, members of other religions— mostly Christianity— have dominated extremism on a worldwide scale. From the Christian-fueled colonization of the New World to the massacres of Jews again and again over centuries, culminating in Nazi Germany, Christine nations, leaders, and doctrine has been radical beyond radical. Why do you refuse to look at the past when analyzing religion?


I’d note that a response to this would involve addressing the criticisms, and not simply, as you usually do, restating the premise, insulting my intelligence, or accusing me of some bizarre meta-game.

142 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:26:29am

re: #140 stabby

No one can understand. Bad recording.

I just chose it for the title “Do unto others, then split!”

Then you can have an upding.

143 stabby  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:28:05am
144 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:28:34am

re: #133 Usually refered to as anyways

I think the: Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Would include being respectful of what they need.

That really doesn’t work, though, unless you’re a good moral being to begin with. If I’m a greedy son of a bitch who trusts no one, steals when he can, and thinks might makes right, doing to others as I’d have them do unto me would mean I’d cheat, lie, and backstab.

Likewise, if I was a holy-roller of the anti-gay type, I’d go around preaching to homosexuals that they’re damned sinners, because that’s what I want done to me.

Kant’s variation on the golden rule (imagine if everyone in the world took the same action as you, what would the result be?) is an improvement, but still insufficient.

145 engineer cat  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:32:17am

re: #138 Usually refered to as anyways

You may have to remain pissed at Christ though, as it is what the new testament teaches.

i disagree

but i would really appreciate it you would read my blog, linked above, which makes the counter argument to what you assert, and leave a comment as to what you think

and with that i have talked rather too much, and anyway i have to get to sleep

night all!

146 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:33:36am

re: #144 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

That really doesn’t work, though, unless you’re a good moral being to begin with. If I’m a greedy son of a bitch who trusts no one, steals when he can, and thinks might makes right, doing to others as I’d have them do unto me would mean I’d cheat, lie, and backstab.

Likewise, if I was a holy-roller of the anti-gay type, I’d go around preaching to homosexuals that they’re damned sinners, because that’s what I want done to me.

Kant’s variation on the golden rule (imagine if everyone in the world took the same action as you, what would the result be?) is an improvement, but still insufficient.

We are speaking in the first person here, not what others would do.
I should do to others as I would have them do unto me.

A thief does not want you to steal from them.
A holy-roller does not want people telling him he’s going to hell (Westborough may be an exception here)
If you don’t want people to lie to you, then you don’t lie to them.

147 steve_davis  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:33:53am

re: #3 Skip Intro

But the catch is you have to join the right club. Apparently here the right - and only club - is the Catholic church. Ask an evangelical, and they’ll tell you that the Pope worshipers are going straight into the pits of Hell, and only way to be saved is to belong to their club.

I don’t know why God decided to make it all so complicated, unless, prankster that He is, He’s going to send everybody to Hell just for laughs.

My guess is that’s a misquote. The priest almost certainly meant little “c” catholic church, not big “C.” And that isn’t church doctrine anyway. Christ clearlly says “all who believe in me” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, and that’s from John, which is the suspiciously-wordy version of the gospels anyway, meaning a) there’s nothing in primary sources about needing to be a member of a club and b)Christ doesn’t say anything doctrinal on the issue either.

One of the problems atheists have with Christianity is the fundamental misunderstanding about how theology works. Theology is like black-letter law on crack. If something isn’t said, it doesn’t mean it isn’t necessarily true, and if something IS said, it may well not mean what a normal reader would think it means. Its meaning flows from other things that the “court” decided elsewhere and that are now part of the framework.

148 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:34:45am

re: #145 engineer cat

i disagree

but i would really appreciate it you would read my blog, linked above, which makes the counter argument to what you assert, and leave a comment as to what you think

and with that i have talked rather too much, and anyway i have to get to sleep

night all!

I did read you blog post, though I saved my comments for here…

Nite engineer cat

149 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:38:44am

re: #147 steve_davis

My guess is that’s a misquote. The priest almost certainly meant little “c” catholic church, not big “C.” And that isn’t church doctrine anyway. Christ clearlly says “all who believe in me” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, and that’s from John, which is the suspiciously-wordy version of the gospels anyway, meaning a) there’s nothing in primary sources about needing to be a member of a club and b)Christ doesn’t say anything doctrinal on the issue either.

Acts 17:24
New International Version
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

Author: Possibly Luke

150 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:40:51am

re: #146 Usually refered to as anyways

We are speaking in the first person here, not what others would do.
I should do to others as I would have them do unto me.

A thief does not want you to steal from them.
A holy-roller does not want people telling him he’s going to hell (Westborough may be an exception here)
If you don’t want people to lie to you, then you don’t lie to them.

My point is there are a lot of people who are fine with being lied to, they expect it, that’s the way they think the world works. They want it because it reaffirms their worldview and ethics.

And many holy rollers are fine with being told they’re going to hell. They think that’s how the world works, that people with different religious ideas attempt to browbeat each other with them. It reaffirms their worldview and ethics.

Or take a guy who loves fighting. He wants you to fight him. He wants to settle arguments with a fight. How does he fit into the golden rule?

151 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:42:46am

re: #150 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

My point is there are a lot of people who are fine with being lied to, they expect it, that’s the way they think the world works. They want it because it reaffirms their worldview and ethics.

And many holy rollers are fine with being told they’re going to hell. They think that’s how the world works, that people with different religious ideas attempt to browbeat each other with them. It reaffirms their worldview and ethics.

Or take a guy who loves fighting. He wants you to fight him. He wants to settle arguments with a fight. How does he fit into the golden rule?

Well their God dam heathen and deserve to burn in hell.
/

152 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, May 26, 2013 3:49:33am

Nite all

153 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:02:59am

re: #70 engineer cat

i

well, from the jewish point of view this turns the whole thing on its head and makes a mockery of a righteous man’s struggle to act well in his life and please god by just, charitable, kind, and righteous actions

there, i said it

not necessarily, it follows that those who have been truly “saved” will do good works from the good of their heart and love of god and not merely for fear of god and observance of rules.

and it also imples that divine justice is not the same as earthly justice, as in the parable of those who worked in the vineyards for only an hour were paid as much as those who worked all day…

154 Romantic Heretic  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:19:54am

re: #25 GeneJockey

The crazy thing is, only Creationists, who appeal to Authority, would think it matters a tinkers dam whether Darwin recanted or not. One Creationist friend of mine keeps quotemining various books, etc., and simply DOES NOT GET the idea that it doesn’t matter what an “Authority” says, that the truth of Evolution doesn’t depend on who’s making the claim.

Authoritarians. Feh.

But it’s easier than thinking.

155 Romantic Heretic  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:22:04am

re: #141 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

Socratic dialog. Still one of the best ways to learn wisdom. (Shakes Obdicut’s hand.)

156 A Mom Anon  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:28:38am

So last night I get a phone call you really don’t want to get. Ever.

My grandchildren up in Ohio were in a really bad car accident last night. The girls (ages 8 and 6) will be ok. One has a broken arm, the other a broken nose and possibly a broken jaw. My grandson(age 10) went through the car windshield and has a head injury. He is in ICU on a ventilator. I don’t know much else since my daughter doesn’t know much else herself. Things were bad enough that he was put on a med flight to Children’s Hospital in Columbus, which is about 90 minutes away from their home by car. My ex’s idiot girlfriend was driving the car, she wasn’t hurt.

I’m not at all religious, most of my experiences with religion haven’t been good ones. Prayers however are another story. Say ‘em if you got ‘em.

Also, one of the girls my son went to school with had a brain aneurysm yesterday morning and is in a coma. She’s 19. My son had a wild crush on her in high school, she was a cheerleader and on the drill team I think. Her family could probably use a happy thought or two also.

Shit.

157 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:48:00am

re: #156 A Mom Anon

So last night I get a phone call you really don’t want to get. Ever.

My grandchildren up in Ohio were in a really bad car accident last night. The girls (ages 8 and 6) will be ok. One has a broken arm, the other a broken nose and possibly a broken jaw. My grandson(age 10) went through the car windshield and has a head injury. He is in ICU on a ventilator. I don’t know much else since my daughter doesn’t know much else herself. Things were bad enough that he was put on a med flight to Children’s Hospital in Columbus, which is about 90 minutes away from their home by car. My ex’s idiot girlfriend was driving the car, she wasn’t hurt.

I’m not at all religious, most of my experiences with religion haven’t been good ones. Prayers however are another story. Say ‘em if you got ‘em.

Also, one of the girls my son went to school with had a brain aneurysm yesterday morning and is in a coma. She’s 19. My son had a wild crush on her in high school, she was a cheerleader and on the drill team I think. Her family could probably use a happy thought or two also.

Shit.

And a sucky month continues. Let’s hope that June is ‘Medical Tech Triumph Month’, and that everyone comes skipping out of the hospital.

(Driver-girl is an idiot—the kid doesn’t go through the windshield if she belted him in.)

158 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:51:08am

re: #156 A Mom Anon

Children’s hospitals tend to attract the very committed, those who knew they wanted to do pediatric medicine. That’s the best I can say. Scary stuff.

159 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:51:56am

re: #156 A Mom Anon

{{{A Mom Anon}}}

Glad that the kids will make it OK. But how did the boy go through the windshield? Wasn’t he in a seat belt, or was the crash that violent?

I’ve spent most of my life teaching. I remind my students occasionally that their feeling of being immortal is misplaced. A person’s life can end suddenly in a number of unexpected ways. So, it’s best to tell people now how you feel about them, because you just never know how long either of you will be around.

That said, I hope everyone here lives a long and happy life.

160 A Mom Anon  Sun, May 26, 2013 5:34:14am

Thanks all. My grandson is awake now and talking. My daughter is waiting to talk with a pediatric neurosurgeon, I’m not sure if he’s going to need surgery. I’m hoping that this is just a precaution and they called in a surgeon as protocol for cases like this and that he doesn’t need surgery. The kid seems to know where he is and how he got there, and was asking about his sisters, so that’s a good sign.

News isn’t as good for my son’s friend though. I don’t know this family at all, but her mom is posting on FB and she doesn’t sound hopeful.

I need to go do something useful before I lose what’s left of my sanity.

161 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 5:59:24am

re: #33 BigPapa

Lena Dunham not happy about ‘Girls’ porn parody

Loves me Girls.

As I had said yesterday morning, Dunham walked right into the trap Larry Flynt laid for her. Talking up this porn parody is the sort of provocation he’s been doing for decades. It’s intended to draw an outraged squawk out of its target, which draws more media attention onto the porn product, giving it mainstream exposure while giving Flynt the attention he craves.

Lena Dunham should just ignore this bit of DERP, but I personally hope she doesn’t. Watching a liberal feminist and a pornographer attack each other is popcorn time for a conservative.

162 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:00:32am

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Lena Dunham should just ignore this bit of DERP, but I personally hope she doesn’t. Watching a liberal feminist and a pornographer attack each other is popcorn time for a conservative.

This is really creepy and comes across as very mean-spirited.

Can you explain more? Why is it ‘popcorn time’?

I think your first paragraph is completely right, by the way.

163 Flounder  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:00:36am

re: #156 A Mom Anon

I hope your grandson is okay, he is the same age as my son. I just don’t have ,words, I am sorry.

164 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:07:21am

re: #162 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

This is really creepy and comes across as very mean-spirited.

Can you explain more? Why is it ‘popcorn time’?

I think your first paragraph is completely right, by the way.

It is popcorn time for the same reason other here say its time to get the popcorn when those of the Republican coalition fight each other. Dunham going after Flynt in response to a Flynt provocation offers a conservative the spectacle of two parts of the Democratic coalition* fighting each other. Conservatives don’t have a dog in the fight, so we can just sit back with some popcorn.

*: The porn industry is more a source of funds for the Dems whereas feminists provide activists.

165 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:08:12am

re: #162 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

This is really creepy and comes across as very mean-spirited.

Can you explain more? Why is it ‘popcorn time’?

I think your first paragraph is completely right, by the way.

Conservatives will never fogive Lena D for her “first time” Obama campaign ad, which they saw as liberal soft porn.

And larry Flynt flies in the face of all those family values that people like Mark Sanford, joe Walsh and Newt Geingrich are supposed to represent…

166 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:10:15am

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

Are you suggesting only Democrats watch porn, while conservatives don’t?

167 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:11:07am

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

It is popcorn time for the same reason other here say its time to get the popcorn when those of the Republican coalition fight each other. Dunham going after Flynt in response to a Flynt provocation offers a conservative the spectacle of two parts of the Democratic coalition* fighting each other.

A) They’re not two parts of the Democratic coalition.

B) Althought I support first amendment rights wholeheartedly, it’s obviously sad and distressing for women to have a ‘porn parody’ made of them. It may be humiliating, bring up trauma, and cause really, really terrible feelings. Acting as though it’s just entertainment that she’s upset about this is creepy.

Conservatives don’t have a dog in the fight, so we can just sit back with some popcorn.

Conservatives don’t care about either the first amendment or about pornography? Really?

168 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:15:47am

re: #166 wheat-dogghazi

Are you suggesting only Democrats watch porn, while conservatives don’t?

No. This isn’t a First Amendment case; Jerry Falwell already tried that with Larry Flynt and lost. Flynt is clearly within his rights to produce and distribute this dingbat parody, just as I’m free to not view it.

169 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:16:40am

Lena Dunham. No thanks. I don’t watch TV and I’m not into half-witted pop-icons and faddish figures.

170 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:19:12am

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

No. This isn’t a First Amendment case; Jerry Falwell already tried that with Larry Flynt and lost. Flynt is clearly within his rights to produce and distribute this dingbat parody, just as I’m free to not view it.

Then what does this mean?

*: The porn industry is more a source of funds for the Dems whereas feminists provide activists.

171 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:21:34am

re: #169 Gus

Lena Dunham. No thanks. I don’t watch TV and I’m not into half-witted pop-icons and faddish figures.

I’m sorry, Gus, what do you mean by ‘no thanks’? Just that it’s not a topic that interests you?

The topic of ‘porn parody’ goes beyond Dunham. While I absolutely support the first amendment rights that mean porn parodies can be created, i also find them really repellent as an idea. Reason #288885 not to be famous.

172 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:22:49am

re: #171 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

I’m sorry, Gus, what do you mean by ‘no thanks’? Just that it’s not a topic that interests you?

The topic of ‘porn parody’ goes beyond Dunham. While I absolutely support the first amendment rights that mean porn parodies can be created, i also find them really repellent as an idea. Reason #288885 not to be famous.

Oh sorry. She’s gross. Forgot that part.

173 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:23:47am

Could care less about whatever happened between her and Larry Flynt. Oh, and Kim Kardashian is pregnant. Let me check over at TMZ and see what else is in the news.

174 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:24:37am

Beliebers.

175 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:25:19am

re: #173 Gus

A good way of demonstrating that you don’t care about something is by not talking about it.

And saying “she’s gross”: who gives a shit what she looks like?

176 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:26:18am

re: #175 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

A good way of demonstrating that you don’t care about something is by not talking about it.

And saying “she’s gross”: who gives a shit what she looks like?

It’s her behavior but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

177 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:27:56am

re: #170 wheat-dogghazi

Then what does this mean?

It means exactly what it says. Most of the support the porn industry provides to Democratic candidates is financial, whereas feminists are more typically found in activist roles within the party. There was not intended subtext to my statement; It was intended solely as a description.

What did you think I might be saying?

178 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:28:07am

Oh, and Glee sucks too.

179 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:29:03am

re: #176 Gus

It’s her behavior but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

You’re welcome. You weren’t at all clear; sorry for misunderstanding you.

What would you like to talk about this morning, Gus?

180 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:31:08am

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

I thought you were implying that porn producers are only Democrats. I am not sure one can make such a broad characterization. And, where do you get the intel that the porn industry supports the Dems? It seems reasonable that they would not support GOP candidates trying to shut them down, but porn is a business after all. There must be some Republican porn producers.

181 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:31:48am

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

It means exactly what it says. Most of the support the porn industry provides to Democratic candidates is financial,

Is this true, though? I don’t have any figures on the porn industry and financial contributions. Do you? I’d think this would be pretty hard to get at, given the nature of corporate ownership.

Since porn is huge in Cali, I’d expect some more Democratic contributions through that, but take Sheldon Adelson: porn is a huge part of his business, and he contributes solely to the GOP.

182 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:36:40am

re: #179 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

You’re welcome. You weren’t at all clear; sorry for misunderstanding you.

What would you like to talk about this morning, Gus?

Nothing. Was rolling up an Ace bandage standing over the computer. Went out for a puff. Trying to control the tooth ache. Debating whether to head out to Safeway now which I probably will to avoid the heat and the humans.

183 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:37:56am

If we can make the statement that the porn industry financially helps the Democrat party, I think we can also state that Republicans (individually) support the porn industry.

Lots of porn watchers in Utah, for example …

184 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:40:14am

re: #180 wheat-dogghazi

No industry as large as porn has become is going to be monolithic, of course. My statement was intended to illustrate the roles that the two different groups of people tend to play with the Democratic coalition, not to say that all porn producers are Democrats. Hell, Phil Gramm once bankrolled a porn movie, so I sure as heck wasn’t trying to imply that anyone involved with porn is a Dem.

185 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:41:19am

re: #183 wheat-dogghazi

If we can make the statement that the porn industry financially helps the Democrat party, I think we can also state that Republicans (individually) support the porn industry.

Lots of porn watchers in Utah, for example …

Porn watching is the province of neither party. The Democrats are just more honest about it.

186 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:41:49am

Debating the motorized scooter at Safeway. //

187 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:41:56am

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

No industry as large as porn has become is going to be monolithic, of course. My statement was intended to illustrate the roles that the two different groups of people tend to play with the Democratic coalition, not to say that all porn producers are Democrats. Hell, Phil Gramm once bankrolled a porn movie, so I sure as heck wasn’t trying to imply that anyone involved with porn is a Dem.

I don’t think your contention holds water even at the most basic level, though. Adelson, for example, makes shitloads of money from porn and donates to the GOP.

Do you have any facts or figures to back up your belief at all?

188 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:42:32am

re: #186 Gus

Debating the motorized scooter at Safeway. //

Never be afraid of looking silly if it means avoiding real pain, is how I roll. Just make sure to take a boombox and blast “eye of the tiger” as you roll through there.

189 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:46:13am

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

Agreed about Dems’ honesty. But I am not sure that pornsters benefit the Democrat party that much.

190 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:49:49am

Islamic preacher Choudary peddles hatred from a sweet shop

RADICAL Muslim cleric Anjem Choudary is using a chain of children’s sweet shops owned by his wealthy brother as a vehicle for bringing about his dream of an Islamic revolution.

Unfortunately they changed the title of the article which was “Choudary and the chocolate factory”. heh

191 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:50:55am

re: #187 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

You missed my point Obdi: When I wrote that I was trying to “to illustrate the roles that the two different groups of people tend to play with the Democratic coalition”, what I meant was that porn producers who are Democrats or who support the Democrats tend to do so as money people (changed from “money men”, since some porn producers are women nowadays).

And could you please back off a bit at this point. That ‘popcorn time’ line was just something I said because more liberal members of the board have used when GOP factions fight each other. I didn’t mean anything offensive by it and it wasn’t even the main point of my post.

192 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:54:26am

re: #188 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

Never be afraid of looking silly if it means avoiding real pain, is how I roll. Just make sure to take a boombox and blast “eye of the tiger” as you roll through there.

Might just make a beeline for the frozen dinners and coffee and get out. Let’s see. Need some crazy glue while I’m at it.

193 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:55:28am

OK, think I’ll do it now! Off I go! Break a leg! //

BBL

194 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:56:19am

re: #191 Dark_Falcon

I would argue that it’s a healthy thing for Dunham and Flynt to square off about sexuality and the media presentation of it, although they are supporters of the same party. I can’t see that kind of debate (or argument) happening among Republicans — or at least the most vocal element of the GOP right now. Most of the GOP seems to be in lockstep about denying human sexuality in general, at least in public.

In other words, I don’t expect Ann Coulter to point out Phyllis Schlafly’s blatant hypocrisy telling women they need to stay at home and take care of their families.

195 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 6:56:37am

re: #192 Gus

Might just make a beeline for the frozen dinners and coffee and get out. Let’s see. Need some crazy glue while I’m at it.

Gus, there ain’t enough glue in that whole store to handle all the crazy in you. It’s what we love about you!

/Just having fun.

196 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:01:18am

re: #191 Dark_Falcon

When I wrote that I was trying to “to illustrate the roles that the two different groups of people tend to play with the Democratic coalition”, what I meant was that porn producers who are Democrats or who support the Democrats tend to do so as money people (changed from “money men”, since some porn producers are women nowadays).

You didn’t say that, though. You said:

*: The porn industry is more a source of funds for the Dems whereas feminists provide activists.

And put it into an overall view of a ‘coalition’ of Democrats involving pornographers and liberal feminists. Are you honestly trying to say your first post wasn’t giving the impression that you were putting pornographers in general into the Democratic coalition?

And could you please back off a bit at this point. That ‘popcorn time’ line was just something I said because more liberal members of the board have used when GOP factions fight each other. I didn’t mean anything offensive by it and it wasn’t even the main point of my post.

The reason I’m harping on it is because I really do think it’s wildly shitty behavior to make a ‘porn parody’ of someone, be they Britney Spears, Sarah Palin, or Laura Dunham. I support the first-amendment right for it to happen, but that doesn’t mean it’s not shitty behavior.

It’s kind of like those pictures of some GOP dude’s kids crying when he lost. It was so fucking meanspirited to look at a small, crying child and be like “Hahaha, you’re sad and your father’s a jerk”. Dunham feels creeped out by the porn parody. So would I, if someone made one of me. We have to tolerate a lot of shit to protect free speech, but it doesn’t mean we have to like the shit.

All Dunham has said is that the parody bugs her.

197 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:01:59am

re: #194 wheat-dogghazi

I would argue that it’s a healthy thing for Dunham and Flynt to square off about sexuality and the media presentation of it, although they are supporters of the same party. I can’t see that kind of debate (or argument) happening among Republicans — or at least the most vocal element of the GOP right now. Most of the GOP seems to be in lockstep about denying human sexuality in general, at least in public.

In other words, I don’t expect Ann Coulter to point out Phyllis Schlafly’s blatant hypocrisy telling women they need to stay at home and take care of their families.

The thing is that I think Flynt’s trolling. A porn parody of Girls is the kind of ‘feminist baiting’ that Larry Flynt has been doing for longer than Lena Dunham has been alive. Her reacting to him gives him what he really wants: publicity for his porn and the public and media attention he craves. That is why I wrote that I think Dunham should ignore him. The correct response to Flynt’s style of trolling is the same if real life as it is online:

GAZE

198 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:03:23am

re: #196 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

The reason I’m harping on it is because I really do think it’s wildly shitty behavior to make a ‘porn parody’ of someone, be they Britney Spears, Sarah Palin, or Laura Dunham. I support the first-amendment right for it to happen, but that doesn’t mean it’s not shitty behavior.

It’s kind of like those pictures of some GOP dude’s kids crying when he lost. It was so fucking meanspirited to look at a small, crying child and be like “Hahaha, you’re said and your father’s a jerk”. Dunham feels creeped out by the porn parody. So would I, if someone made one of me. We have to tolerate a lot of shit to protect free speech, but it doesn’t mean we have to like the shit.

All Dunham has said is that the parody bugs her.

OK, that I can agree with.

199 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:06:23am

re: #156 A Mom Anon

So last night I get a phone call you really don’t want to get. Ever.

My grandchildren up in Ohio were in a really bad car accident last night. The girls (ages 8 and 6) will be ok. One has a broken arm, the other a broken nose and possibly a broken jaw. My grandson(age 10) went through the car windshield and has a head injury. He is in ICU on a ventilator. I don’t know much else since my daughter doesn’t know much else herself. Things were bad enough that he was put on a med flight to Children’s Hospital in Columbus, which is about 90 minutes away from their home by car. My ex’s idiot girlfriend was driving the car, she wasn’t hurt.

I’m not at all religious, most of my experiences with religion haven’t been good ones. Prayers however are another story. Say ‘em if you got ‘em.

Also, one of the girls my son went to school with had a brain aneurysm yesterday morning and is in a coma. She’s 19. My son had a wild crush on her in high school, she was a cheerleader and on the drill team I think. Her family could probably use a happy thought or two also.

Shit.

{{{A Mom Anon}}} A hard night. My prayers are with you and yours for as long as you wish.

200 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:11:42am

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

Flynt is a jerk, there’s no question about it. He’s taking advantage of Dunham and the popularity of her show (which she created) to make a cheap buck on something he has not created in toto. She’s got every right to complain, but there’s not much she can do about it. It would have been better if she had just told Flynt to fuck off and leave it at that.

Or she could work in a particularly nasty parody of him on her show.

201 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:13:08am

re: #200 wheat-dogghazi

Flynt is a jerk, there’s no question about it. He’s taking advantage of Dunham and the popularity of her show (which she created) to make a cheap buck on something he has not created in toto. She’s got every right to complain, but there’s not much she can do about it. It would have been better if she had just told Flynt to fuck off and leave it at that.

Or she could work in a particularly nasty parody of him on her show.

That would just give him more attention. Feeding the troll just makes it stay around.

202 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:17:05am

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

Dunham has more ammunition, creatively speaking, than Flynt. She could outclass him.

But you’re probably right. Ignoring him is the best recourse. Hustler and Larry are passé now. I mean, why buy glossy mags when you can download stuff for free?

Yeah, I know. It’s for the articles …

203 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:19:13am

re: #202 wheat-dogghazi

Dunham has more ammunition, creatively speaking, than Flynt. She could outclass him.

But you’re probably right. Ignoring him is the best recourse. Hustler and Larry are passé now. I mean, why buy glossy mags when you can download stuff for free?

Yeah, I know. It’s for the articles …

She already outclasses Larry Flynt just by being herself.

204 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:31:43am

Mornin’ gang.

205 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:33:16am

Would somebody please turn out that really bright light up in the sky, I need to hibernate longer!!

206 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:35:36am

re: #205 Targetpractice

Would somebody please turn out that really bright light up in the sky, I need to hibernate longer!!

Seriously…where’s a good volcanic eruption when you need one?

207 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:36:30am

Morning Lizards, Bob Dole was on Fox news Sunday and wasn’t to kind to the GOP. He said they should put a sign on the National Headquarters, ’ Closed for repairs ‘. Ouch. Also that he wouldn’t be welcomed in the party these days..Sad state of affairs GOP.

208 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:36:33am

re: #204 darthstar

Mornin’ gang.

Image: West-Side-Story-west-side-story-27587835-915-900.jpg

imdb.com

Morning Tony !!!

209 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:36:53am

re: #205 Targetpractice

Would somebody please turn out that really bright light up in the sky, I need to hibernate longer!!

try sleeping inside!

210 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:39:42am

re: #207 HoosierHoops

Morning Lizards, Bob Dole was on Fox news Sunday and wasn’t to kind to the GOP. He said they should put a sign on the National Headquarters, ’ Closed for repairs ‘. Ouch. Also that he wouldn’t be welcomed in the party these days..Sad state of affairs GOP.

And watch this be ignored by nearly all modern conservatives, just as they’ve ignored the warnings that the party was becoming extremist and ignored all the previous statements by GOP statesman about the problem with the party.

211 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:44:17am

re: #209 sattv4u2

try sleeping inside!

I considered boarding over my windows, but then I realized that would just make the neighbors think of me as even more of a weirdo.

212 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:45:01am

re: #208 sattv4u2

You callin’ me a Jet? I’m afraid I don’t dance THAT well.

213 A Mom Anon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:46:24am

Grandkid update:

Youngest, with the broken arm has been released from the hospital.

Middle child has had her neck brace removed, it appears that she only broke her nose, not her jaw, and has two black eyes. They will probably release her later today.

Oldest, the grandson who went through the windshield has also had his neck brace removed, is awake and talking so that’s good. Still waiting to hear back about the surgery, he’s still in the ICU. I think my ex is lying his ass off about the kids wearing seat belts to cover his girlfriend’s ass. He’s already talking about suing someone(um, it’s not his kids in the hospital. What a horse’s ass). I can’t find out any information about the accident, I doubt the cops would tell me anything if I called up there.

My son’s friend(not related to the mess with the grandkids) is still in a coma, haven’t heard anything new, only that they put a second stent in her head after the aneurysm surgery.

It’s going to be a long day.

214 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:46:34am

re: #211 Targetpractice

I considered boarding over my windows, but then I realized that would just make the neighbors think of me as even more of a weirdo.

Put a couple of rusty appliances and a 64 Rambler on blocks in the yard and they won’t think anything of the plywood over the windows.

215 A Mom Anon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:48:26am

re: #205 Targetpractice

Three words: Light Blocking Curtains.

The work great and they aren’t overly expensive unless you have gigantic windows. I got ours at Target.

216 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:48:50am

re: #213 A Mom Anon

If they were wearing seatbelts, then there will be seatbelt-related injuries— abrasions and suchlike. If they don’t have them, they weren’t wearing seatbelts. This is pretty easy to demonstrate and he really doesn’t want to start a lawsuit and then lie about anything at all.

217 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:48:52am

After nearly three years of going to the local Italian place and asking for menus, ordering the same drinks, etc. the bartender last night saw us, greeted us with menus, and said, “Two Makers Mark Manhattans?”

218 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:51:00am

re: #213 A Mom Anon

Holy shit. Sorry to hear that. Good luck and positive thoughts.

219 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:51:06am

re: #213 A Mom Anon

Good thoughts to you and yours

220 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:52:38am
221 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:55:00am

re: #214 darthstar

Put a couple of rusty appliances and a 64 Rambler on blocks in the yard and they won’t think anything of the plywood over the windows.

Just be careful if you live near a member of the Romney family, since they’d be kind of annoyed about the Rambler being up on blocks.

/Two updings to the person who gets the reference.

222 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:55:42am
223 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:56:42am

re: #222 darthstar

Watch for every ‘conservative’ pundit falling over themselves to attribute the surplus solely to budget cuts.

224 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:01:02am

re: #223 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

Watch for every ‘conservative’ pundit falling over themselves to attribute the surplus solely to budget cuts.

There’s a reason for the surplus, and his name is Jerry Brown - oh, and he also has a Democratic super-majority in both houses of the state legislature.

225 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:03:31am

re: #224 darthstar

There’s a reason for the surplus, and his name is Jerry Brown - oh, and he also has a Democratic super-majority in both houses of the state legislature.

It’s kind of nice that while I’m away for 5 more years you guys are fixing up the place.

226 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:03:53am

Mission accomplished. But I see I made the bottom ten because I insulted Lena Dunham. Can’t you feel the love! Anywho, that sets the tone for me this morning at this place. In, and out. Later.

227 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:04:40am

re: #224 darthstar

There’s a reason for the surplus, and his name is Jerry Brown - oh, and he also has a Democratic super-majority in both houses of the state legislature.

As far as he pushed pension reform and got rid of graft and fraud, yes Jerry Brown is to be given credit. Brown is an honest man, unlike grey Davis who was a bullshit artist. And Brown is strong enough to push through needed reforms.

228 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:04:53am

re: #226 Gus

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn’t really have cared what woman it was in the sentence.

It probably doesn’t.

‘grats on the mad bold styling, yo.

229 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:05:01am
230 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:05:13am

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

As far as he pushed pension reform and got rid of graft and fraud, yes Jerry Brown is to be given credit. Brown is an honest man, unlike grey Davis who was a bullshit artist. And Brown is strong enough to push through needed reforms.

Also, he raised taxes.

231 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:05:44am

re: #222 darthstar

What, you mean Jerry Brown did what Ahh-nold couldn’t?

232 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:05:52am

re: #226 Gus

Made me look

Gave you an upding, but took it back for sticking it out!

233 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:06:11am

re: #230 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

Also, he raised taxes.

Blasphemy! Burn him at the stake!!

234 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:06:48am

re: #223 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

Watch for every ‘conservative’ pundit falling over themselves to attribute the surplus solely to budget cuts.

I remember Rush Limbaugh saying that the budget surplus under Clinton was a bad thing: it is immoral for the government to take more money from us than it needs to operate…

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:07:02am

re: #231 Targetpractice

What, you mean Jerry Brown did what Ahh-nold couldn’t?

Yep. Turns out that Dems respond better when the reforms are suggested by other Democrats.

Republicans are the same way.

236 Skip Intro  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:07:26am

re: #231 Targetpractice

What, you mean Jerry Brown did what Ahh-nold couldn’t?

Only after California voters finally did what the nation should do: put the Republicans in a little box where they can scream and whine but have no impact on how the state is governed.

237 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:08:20am

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Yep. Turns out that Dems respond better when the reforms are suggested by other Democrats.

Republicans are the same way.

Also, he raised taxes, and the reforms he suggested actually were well-thought out and not random axes taken to the budget.

238 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:08:34am

re: #234 Sol Berdinowitz

I remember Rush Limbaugh saying that the budget surplus under Clinton was a bad thing: it is immoral for the government to take more money from us than it needs to operate…

Yeah, folks forget that one of the planks Dubya ran on was that surpluses are immoral and he’d pass tax cuts because “the economy works better when people have their own money to spend.” Cut to 8 years later, when his tax cuts had led to a redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the rich not seen since the days of Reagan.

239 Skip Intro  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:09:43am

re: #238 Targetpractice

Cut to 8 years later, when his tax cuts had led to a redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the rich not seen since the days of Reagan.

I don’t think there’s been a redistribution like the current one since the Gilded Age.

240 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:10:04am

re: #227 Dark_Falcon

As far as he pushed pension reform and got rid of graft and fraud, yes Jerry Brown is to be given credit. Brown is an honest man, unlike grey Davis who was a bullshit artist. And Brown is strong enough to push through needed reforms.

Davis? You do know there was another Governor between Davis and Brown, and he served two terms. Arnold something. Swedish or Hispanic fellow.

241 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:12:53am

re: #236 Skip Intro

Only after California voters finally did what the nation should do: put the Republicans in a little box where they can scream and whine but have no impact on how the state is governed.

The GOP is a Super-Minority in this state now. And Conservatives don’t mind, so long as they can keep their Republican reps in their little pockets of the state where they live. Rising tides lift all boats. Have a Democratic super-majority and spend your time bitching about the good work they’re doing with, “We would do it better if we got the chance.”

242 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:14:18am

re: #241 darthstar

Or Romney explaining to obama the difference between his health care program and Obamas: his was passed by a bipartisan majority, while Obama’s was “rammed down our throats” with a Democratic majority…

243 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:14:36am

re: #241 darthstar

The GOP is a Super-Minority in this state now. And Conservatives don’t mind, so long as they can keep their Republican reps in their little pockets of the state where they live. Rising tides lift all boats. Have a Democratic super-majority and spend your time bitching about the good work they’re doing with, “We would do it better if we got the chance.”

Then in a few years, when things are on their way or mostly fixed, people experience one of those bouts of collective amnesia, which the GOP takes advantage of by convincing them that “Hey, you put us in power and we’ll cut taxes/regulations, putting more money in your pockets!”

244 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:16:42am

re: #242 Sol Berdinowitz

Or Romney explaining to obama the difference between his health care program and Obamas: his was passed by a bipartisan majority, while Obama’s was “rammed down our throats” with a Democratic majority…

Romney got to sign the plan into law, but it was driven by the Democratic majority.

245 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:17:53am

re: #243 Targetpractice

Then in a few years, when things are on their way or mostly fixed, people experience one of those bouts of collective amnesia, which the GOP takes advantage of by convincing them that “Hey, you put us in power and we’ll cut taxes/regulations, putting more money in your pockets!”

At which point the smart people will cash in and sit out the next 12 years.

246 BigPapa  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:18:27am

re: #175 Obdicut is an Obdislut apparently

A good way of demonstrating that you don’t care about something is by not talking about it.

And saying “she’s gross”: who gives a shit what she looks like?

No to mention, Gus obviously doesn’t watch Girls. But his disapproval is duly noted.

Really, Dunham made a comment on Twitter about it, it’s not like it’s some kind of war where popcorn needs to be stocked up on.

247 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:18:35am

re: #243 Targetpractice

I don’t see a Republican holding statewide office in California again until the party gets better media discipline. As long as reps like Steve King keep spouting off at inconvenient times, any Republicans in Cali are going to be fatally vulnerable to “Nice friends you got there” types of attacks.

248 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:19:37am

re: #246 BigPapa

I wasn’t stocking up, I was just going to pop a bag, honest! :D

249 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:21:14am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

There’s also that the GOP joined in on the Prop 8 fight, a contemptible attempt to legislate bigotry. There’s also that the GOP has obstructed the budget for years and years and years. There’s also that California tends to care about environmental shit and science, and the GOP has terrible policies on that.

It’s fine with me if you and other ‘conservatives’ fool yourselves into thinking it’s just the message, it’s just the media, but it’s not.

If people actually knew what the GOP policies were, if they really understood them, the GOP would have even less support than they do. People usually can’t believe how fucking insane the GOP platform is when it’s explained to them.

250 BigPapa  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:22:03am

re: #226 Gus

Mission accomplished. But I see I made the bottom ten because I insulted Lena Dunham. Can’t you feel the love! Anywho, that sets the tone for me this morning at this place. In, and out. Later.

GIve me a fucking break. You made the bottom ten by being all pissy pants . I believe Dunham = Kardashian = TMZ was your handiwork.

251 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:23:11am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

I don’t see a Republican holding statewide office in California again until the party gets better media discipline. As long as reps like Steve King keep spouting off at inconvenient times, any Republicans in Cali are going to be fatally vulnerable to “Nice friends you got there” types of attacks.

A lot of folks told themselves there was no way that Republicans could get one of their own elected after they’d screwed the pooch so badly with Clinton’s impeachment. Then they told themselves 4 years later that there was no way that a Republican president whose war effort was going so poorly and whose economy was barely limping along could get reelected.

All it takes is finding an “Aw, shucks” Republican who can capitalize on the electorate’s ability to overlook the party’s very obvious problems when the guy in front of them looks like “one of us.”

252 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:24:28am

re: #224 darthstar

Jerry Brown? A long time devout fiscal conservative who has the huge benefit of something slightly less than utter contempt from the long time far left legislative majority. You know a lot of his proposals were 90%+ like Arnolds, claimed to be utterly impossible and foolish at the time. It was not a minute after those announcements of the surplus monies that the fight to spend them began. I’m thrilled to see the numbers, not with the response to them.

Of course getting a tax increase passed “for the schools” that was really a teachers (and others) pension money bait and switch helped too. Maybe in another year or three the schools will see some tax money that was said to be for them. IF surpluses continue. Huge if.

253 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:26:15am

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

I don’t see a Republican holding statewide office in California again until the party gets better media discipline.

You mean “forcing our conservative luminaries to bow and scrape to the PC mainstream media?”

NEVER!

254 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:27:24am

GOP plan: Put a piece of lettuce on the shit-sandwich they’re selling and tell people it’s good for them.

255 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:27:26am

This will be the first time in years that I’m not at the Indy 500. Talked to my Buddies at the track this morning as they were tail-gating. It’s on TV but it’s a great experience in person. Love the race!

More importantly, today is the time we remember and thank all those that gave their full measure for our Country. They earned our Freedoms with their blood and sacrafice.

256 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:27:58am

re: #251 Targetpractice

A lot of folks told themselves there was no way that Republicans could get one of their own elected after they’d screwed the pooch so badly with Clinton’s impeachment. Then they told themselves 4 years later that there was no way that a Republican president whose war effort was going so poorly and whose economy was barely limping along could get reelected.

All it takes is finding an “Aw, shucks” Republican who can capitalize on the electorate’s ability to overlook the party’s very obvious problems when the guy in front of them looks like “one of us.”

The war didn’t look like it was going poorly in 2004, and George W. Bush had the advantage of incumbency. It is also a fact that Kerry was a much weaker candidate than Obama.

257 Targetpractice  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:31:25am

re: #256 Dark_Falcon

The war didn’t look like it was going poorly in 2004, and George W. Bush had the advantage of incumbency. It is also a fact that Kerry was a much weaker candidate than Obama.

In ‘04 the “short liberation” had begun to morph into the same open-ended occupation that Afghanistan had become by that time. And in retrospect, Kerry’s biggest crime was being a war veteran who’d had an attack of conscience after his service, a cardinal sin to an electorate that was being spoon-fed the “support the troops” pablum.

258 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:33:35am

re: #256 Dark_Falcon

The war didn’t look like it was going poorly in 2004, and George W. Bush had the advantage of incumbency. It is also a fact that Kerry was a much weaker candidate than Obama.

People just did not like Kerry. Heck, I didn’t like him, even though I wound up voting for him.

That is why everything they flung at him stuck.

Problem was, aside from the hard-core bigots, people liked Obama. And even those non-bigots who disagred with his politics saw him as a personificatino of the American dream: someone from a non-priveleged backgroud who rose to power on his own effort and initiative.

So when the GOP tried to repeat their successful poo-flinging strategy, it backfired on them.

Now things seem to be starting to adhere to Obama, but he is already in his second term.

259 BigPapa  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:34:52am

re: #257 Targetpractice

He also was the beneficiary of the original Swift Boat.

260 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:35:30am

re: #255 HoosierHoops

Hello there

Watching Indy with you from a distance.

261 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:38:20am

re: #256 Dark_Falcon

The war didn’t look like it was going poorly in 2004, and George W. Bush had the advantage of incumbency. It is also a fact that Kerry was a much weaker candidate than Obama.

Have you ever thought about a career in education? You’d be a very entertaining Civics/Government teacher for some of your students, while others would later be somewhat confused.

262 Skip Intro  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:39:00am

re: #252 Political Atheist

Of course getting a tax increase passed “for the schools” that was really a teachers (and others) pension money bait and switch helped too. Maybe in another year or three the schools will see some tax money that was said to be for them. IF surpluses continue. Huge if.

You can thank the California voters and the totally screwed up referendum system we have here for the constitutional change requiring the schools get a fixed percentage of the budget, no matter what.

I shudder every time we have an election here when I see what crap has made it to the ballot because the referendum process makes it so easy for the special interests to do it.

263 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:39:42am

re: #260 Political Atheist

Hello there

Watching Indy with you from a distance.

Hey You! 4 woman in the race this year! How is D_L doing these days?
This should be a good race today..

264 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:40:39am

Gotta go. BBL

265 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:45:02am

re: #263 HoosierHoops

D_L is doing fine. Gave up on the job market and started a potted plant service for offices and fine homes. Exciting and scary as any start up will be. She had a little dust up with a Wal Mart store that lied on the phone about medication cost. Can’t say she won that argument but fought to a draw anyway.

Who do you like for the race today?

266 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:45:34am

OT, our feline overlord came down with a severe case of Pneumonia this past week. Vet said she might not make it (this cat is only 3 years old) but gave us some meds and a treatment plan. I am pleased to report she has been responding to the drugs. She’s not out of the woods yet but she is eating and drinking well and she seemed to have more energy and bounce in her step yesterday than we’ve seen in awhile.

My wife and I are both really hoping she pulls through.

267 bratwurst  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:47:01am

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

The porn industry is more a source of funds for the Dems whereas feminists provide activists.

Give me a break. The Bang Brothers are comparable to the Koch brothers on your planet?

268 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:48:43am

re: #267 bratwurst

I read that as meaning by inclination, not amount.

269 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:51:57am

re: #265 Political Atheist

D_L is doing fine. Gave up on the job market and started a potted plant service for offices and fine homes. Exciting and scary as any start up will be. She had a little dust up with a Wal Mart store that lied on the phone about medication cost. Can’t say she won that argument but fought to a draw anyway.

Who do you like for the race today?

I like Dario to win.
Glad you are both doing well today..
Here we go! The Indy 500

270 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:55:49am

re: #269 HoosierHoops

Hoping no rain comes down, I want to enjoy the whole race. Any more Brazilians and Indianapolis is going to need to hold a Carnaval.

Look at the old warbirds!!!

271 Bear  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:56:48am

re: #266 Eclectic Cyborg

So sorry about kitty. Hope kitty gets well.

272 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:57:34am

re: #270 Political Atheist

Hoping no rain comes down, I want to enjoy the whole race. Any more Brazilians and Indianapolis is going to need to hold a Carnaval.

Look at the old warbirds!!!

Awesome seeing those WW2 Birds flying over the track.

273 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:57:46am

re: #270 Political Atheist

Look at the old warbirds!!!

Planes,,, or some octogenarians sitting in the stands !?!?!

//

274 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 8:59:46am

re: #272 HoosierHoops

Awesome seeing those WW2 Birds flying over the track.

I like that a lot better than modern fighting craft. It looks more of a remembrance of the lost and less of a celebration of our war fighting ability. Just IMO. I might be biased, love the old planes.

275 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:00:46am

re: #269 HoosierHoops


My money’s on AJ Foyt. He always wins when I watch the Indy 500.

276 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:05:15am

If they made the corners 90 degree banks they could lift the limits on how fast cars can go.

277 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:06:10am

re: #275 darthstar

My money’s on AJ Foyt. He always wins when I watch the Indy 500.

The late great Jim Murray

“Gentlemen, Start Your Coffins”

278 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:08:48am

Gomer Pyle! Good to see Indianapolis 500 embracing same-sex marriage.

279 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:10:10am

re: #266 Eclectic Cyborg

Ah the strength of youth especially in a kitty. It’s almost unstoppable.

280 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:10:16am

Prius pace car?

281 austin_blue  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:10:20am

“Ladies and Gentlemen, Start Your Coffins!!”

282 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:11:15am

re: #281 austin_blue

I wish I had said that !!!
/

283 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:12:27am

re: #274 Political Atheist

I like that a lot better than modern fighting craft. It looks more of a remembrance of the lost and less of a celebration of our war fighting ability. Just IMO. I might be biased, love the old planes.

I lost interest in aircraft after the F-86 Saber Jet and the Mig-15.

284 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:12:41am

They’re all swerving around…are these guys drunk?

285 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:13:52am

re: #284 darthstar

They’re all swerving around…are these guys drunk?

avoiding squirrels

286 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:14:44am

re: #285 sattv4u2

avoiding squirrels

Although Gomer was there hoping for some road kill stew!

287 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:15:21am

re: #284 darthstar

They’re all swerving around…are these guys drunk?

Sure..Also warm those tires up.. In a minute they will go flying at over 200mph..Cool 49er coach is driving the pace car

288 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:16:30am

re: #287 HoosierHoops

Sure..Also warm those tires up.. In a minute they will go flying at over 200mph..Cool 49er coach is driving the pace car

I saw that…still wouldn’t mind seeing a pace car hit the wall in turn four one of these years.

289 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:17:42am

So how fast do they drive in these warmup laps? If they’re going 50-60mph, driving the pace car would be boring. But if they’re going 100-120, it would be kind of fun.

290 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:19:49am

I’d love to see Marco Andretti win today.

291 Stanghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:21:56am

re: #290 Political Atheist

I’d love to see Marco Andretti win today.

He seems to be the heir apparent.

Morning all.

292 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:22:16am

I was just going to post that on cool days there seems to be a lot of wrecks.
Already had one..

293 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:25:00am

re: #292 HoosierHoops

I was just going to post that on cool days there seems to be a lot of wrecks.
Already had one..

That’s what many people watch these races for…

294 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:26:43am

Bob Dole should be pissed at the GOP for insulting him on the floor of the Senate last year.

295 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:28:55am

re: #294 darthstar

Bob Dole should be pissed at the GOP for insulting him on the floor of the Senate last year.

It’s too late, once you neglect repairs for too long, the whole structure collapses on itself.

296 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:31:27am

re: #293 darthstar

That’s what many people watch these races for…

In person at Indy..
It is so loud you can’t believe it.
They are so fast your jaw just drops.
And wrecks are very violent affairs. It sounds like a bomb when one hits the wall…
True fans don’t want wrecks to happen. It is a fact of life that many lives have been lost at Indy.

297 HappyWarrior  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:31:39am

re: #294 darthstar

Bob Dole should be pissed at the GOP for insulting him on the floor of the Senate last year.

He’s not that far off to say what he did about Reagan. Loonie Louie Gohmert was claiming the other day that Reagan’s immigration amnesty is why Obama became president. Seriously that party’s beyond help at this point. The best thing that can happen is for them to self implode and for remnants of santiy to come from the ashes.

298 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:34:45am

re: #297 HappyWarrior

The long slow toppling of the party is evident.

299 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:35:37am

re: #296 HoosierHoops

In person at Indy..
It is so loud you can’t believe it.
They are so fast your jaw just drops.
And wrecks are very violent affairs. It sounds like a bomb when one hits the wall…
True fans don’t want wrecks to happen. It is a fact of life that many lives have been lost at Indy.

Never been. I was talking about the TV audience. Me, I like watching lead battles. Must be awesome to be there in person…maybe I’ll fly out next year for it…would be kind of fun.

300 HoosierHoops  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:37:42am

re: #298 Political Atheist

The long slow toppling of the party is evident.

Can the GOP be reformed? Obama is flying into Tinker AFB..TV said they are flying around to look at the damage.. Got to run outside..BRB

301 BigPapa  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:43:50am

re: #294 darthstar

Closed for repairs?

How about: the lunatics took over the asylum.

302 austin_blue  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:51:05am

re: #297 HappyWarrior

He’s not that far off to say what he did about Reagan. Loonie Louie Gohmert was claiming the other day that Reagan’s immigration amnesty is why Obama became president. Seriously that party’s beyond help at this point. The best thing that can happen is for them to self implode and for remnants of santiy to come from the ashes.

But Louie is great for a sound bite, isn’t he? The crazy uncle you keep in the attic…

303 HappyWarrior  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:52:18am

re: #302 austin_blue

But Louie is great for a sound bite, isn’t he? The crazy uncle you keep in the attic…

the attic’s attic. Seriously that guy gives Bachmann a run for her money.

304 darthstar  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:52:47am

Picked up a hitchhiker yesterday. Homeless veteran. Guy had his thumb out, and as it was the only finger he had, I figured it would be pretty safe. Very nice fellow. Lost all his fingers except for his right thumb and his left thumb and half his left pinky in February after a cold night out in Arizona. Spent a month in the hospital and lost his dog. Drove him up the coast as far as Pacifica then, when he asked for some change for a cup of coffee gave him a $10 bill. He said, “Give me your arm I want to hug it!” and hooked wrapped his two arms around my right arm and rubbed his beard against my hand. I almost cried.

305 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 9:54:27am

re: #302 austin_blue

But Louie is great for a sound bite, isn’t he? The crazy uncle you keep in the attic…

We cannot afford to just be amused at people like Louie G, he is part of a movement that is wrecking a major political party and running American politics right off the rails in doing so.

At some point, we could come to face a major crisis that requires strong leadership and bipartisan support, and people like him and Michelle will make sure that we go down the tube rather than abandon their ideological principles of narrowminded stupidity.

306 HappyWarrior  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:00:10am

re: #300 HoosierHoops

Can the GOP be reformed? Obama is flying into Tinker AFB..TV said they are flying around to look at the damage.. Got to run outside..BRB

Honestly, I don’t think so. I really do think they’ve dug themselves into deep a trench by alienating two important groups- young people and Hispanics. They wrongly believed that support for gay marriage was just a “fad” and wouldn’t grow overtime which it has. To go along with that, their ties to the religious right and general xenophobia also alienate younger voters who are generally not as religious and do not think much of paranoia about Sharia and Muslims. Hispanics, it really goes without saying since they’ve decided to become the Know-Nothing party on immigration since Bush left office. Their nominees need to stay away from people like Kris Kobach rather than embracing them which is exactly what Romney did when he made Kobach his immigration adviser. I would never totally discount them but the next successful GOP in a presidential election I predict will be different than the one now. They need to grow their base rather than preaching to their current base’s choir and nominating guys like Cuccinneli for governor, the crazy reverend Jackson for Lt Governor, etc isn’t going to help grow their party.

307 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:00:56am

re: #295 Sol Berdinowitz

It’s too late, once you neglect repairs for too long, the whole structure collapses on itself.

The whole GOP is nothing but Bondo, duct tape, and JB Weld at this point.

308 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:06:38am

re: #307 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

The whole GOP is nothing but Bondo, duct tape, and JB Weld at this point.

a good analogy: its politics still hold well at the state and local levels, and that success makes them blind to the fact that it fails at a national level

309 Single-handed sailor  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:07:16am

re: #307 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

The whole GOP is nothing but Bondo, duct tape, and JB Weld at this point.

…and that poor, poor chicken they’ve been fucking is nothing but duct tape and feathers at this point.

310 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:08:56am

re: #304 darthstar

Picked up a hitchhiker yesterday. Homeless veteran. Guy had his thumb out, and as it was the only finger he had, I figured it would be pretty safe. Very nice fellow. Lost all his fingers except for his right thumb and his left thumb and half his left pinky in February after a cold night out in Arizona. Spent a month in the hospital and lost his dog. Drove him up the coast as far as Pacifica then, when he asked for some change for a cup of coffee gave him a $10 bill. He said, “Give me your arm I want to hug it!” and hooked wrapped his two arms around my right arm and rubbed his beard against my hand. I almost cried.

Thanks. My dad was a vet. Served in Germany during the Korean war. When I was a little kid I never understood why he got so worked up when the saw the wounded vets collecting money (the ones that give you the flower). I now understand and always give them a buck or two.

A year ago I was driving with my kids and we saw a guy on the side of the road asking for money. Had a sign that said he was a vet. We had some fruit/water to give him and then people behind us did the same. It felt like the right thing to do but mad me sad/angry as well.

I get pissed at all the “patriots” in this country who don’t think they should pay a nickel more in taxes to help vets.

Once again thanks for your post.

311 BigPapa  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:13:14am

re: #309 Single-handed sailor

…and that poor, poor chicken they’ve been fucking is nothing but duct tape and feathers at this point.

The analogy is wrong. More like bondo and duct tape holding together a rotting zombie

The best analogy for the intellectual rot is a zombie. Or a cult member.

312 A Mom Anon  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:14:44am

re: #213 A Mom Anon

Another update:

My son’s friend from school died from her aneurysm about an hour ago. She was 19. My son is crushed.

My grandkids are better but not out of the woods yet. My granddaughter should be able to go home tommorrow, grandson will be taken out of ICU in the morning provided there’s no complications today.

Enough with the young people getting hurt, Jesus. I’m going to go have a beer.

313 EdEncho  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:19:07am

I suppose the new Pope is a bit of an improvement in that he is only a fascist rather than his predecessor Herr Ratzinger the Nazi.

EE

314 Stanghazi  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:19:58am

re: #312 A Mom Anon

Another update:

My son’s friend from school died from her aneurysm about an hour ago. She was 19. My son is crushed.

My grandkids are better but not out of the woods yet. My granddaughter should be able to go home tommorrow, grandson will be taken out of ICU in the morning provided there’s no complications today.

Enough with the young people getting hurt, Jesus. I’m going to go have a beer.

Oh my, just read your comment. So sad. Hang in there.

315 sattv4u2  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:22:30am

re: #313 EdEncho

Flunked that Dale Carnegie class, didjya!

Here. Study up for the next time

amazon.com

316 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:24:50am

19 is way too young to go. A reminder to everyone: value every day that you get because you never know when your time will be up.

A friend of mine once put it like this: “The flowers that will line your grave may be in bloom right now.”

317 Political Atheist  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:43:48am

re: #313 EdEncho

I suppose the new Pope is a bit of an improvement in that he is only a fascist rather than his predecessor Herr Ratzinger the Nazi.

EE

Overstate much?

318 BigPapa  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:44:56am

Slayer South of Heaven is much better Change Order music than Massive Attack Mezzanine.

But Mezzanine is a better record.

319 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 26, 2013 10:57:12am

re: #312 A Mom Anon

Another update:

My son’s friend from school died from her aneurysm about an hour ago. She was 19. My son is crushed.

My grandkids are better but not out of the woods yet. My granddaughter should be able to go home tommorrow, grandson will be taken out of ICU in the morning provided there’s no complications today.

Enough with the young people getting hurt, Jesus. I’m going to go have a beer.

Damnit. “Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust” and so we all go but it’s so much harder to see when they’re children.

320 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 26, 2013 11:36:49am

re: #307 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

The whole GOP is nothing but Bondo, duct tape, and JB Weld at this point.

Like hell it is—Bondo, duct tape and JB Weld are supremely useful.

321 Gus  Sun, May 26, 2013 1:57:10pm

Hahahaha!

322 jamesfirecat  Sun, May 26, 2013 4:46:35pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

It is popcorn time for the same reason other here say its time to get the popcorn when those of the Republican coalition fight each other. Dunham going after Flynt in response to a Flynt provocation offers a conservative the spectacle of two parts of the Democratic coalition* fighting each other. Conservatives don’t have a dog in the fight, so we can just sit back with some popcorn.

*: The porn industry is more a source of funds for the Dems whereas feminists provide activists.

If porn is a slush fund for democrats why is it so popular in red states?

Also if conservatives do not care about feminists (and thus have no dog in a fight involving one) does that mean the ony women you care about are those who do not want to be treated equally next to men?

323 palomino  Sun, May 26, 2013 7:35:13pm

re: #164 Dark_Falcon

It is popcorn time for the same reason other here say its time to get the popcorn when those of the Republican coalition fight each other. Dunham going after Flynt in response to a Flynt provocation offers a conservative the spectacle of two parts of the Democratic coalition* fighting each other. Conservatives don’t have a dog in the fight, so we can just sit back with some popcorn.

*: The porn industry is more a source of funds for the Dems whereas feminists provide activists.

Only in the right’s most bizarre fantasies is Larry Flynt part of any mainstream coalition, Democratic or otherwise. And neither of the people you’re discussing are even players on the political scene; neither has even run for political office. This is another tiny blip in a non-stop series of Hollywood spats. The fact that you see this as lib vs. con shows two things: naive wishful thinking, and a complete ignorance of pop culture.

As for eating their own, your party has senators calling each other wacko birds and saying they don’t even trust members of their own party. And don’t forget the teaparty House members who see science as something evil from the pit of hell, opposed by only a few “courageous” people in your party who believe in things like evidence, facts and science. If you’re munching on popcorn over this, you’re missing the deep structural problems faced by your own party, hoping that something with no direct relationship to the Dems will cover up the internal disaster of the current gop. You’re fiddling while Rome burns.


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