Dear Jim Hoft, I’m Not Sorry

Shoots his mouth off, then snakes out on his own bet
Wingnuts • Views: 36,925
DEADBEAT

For just this one time, I’m going to address Jim Hoft sincerely, without mocking his stupendous, galactic idiocy … see? It’s pretty hard not to do it. OK, but seriously.

It’s a simple thing, Jim. You claimed the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee “completely lied” when they said in a fundraising letter that Tea Partiers at a recent rally “waved signs with Nazi symbols.”

Then a photograph was produced showing that the Tea Partiers were indeed carrying signs with Nazi symbols, specifically the Waffen SS insignia.

The DSCC did not “completely lie.” In fact, they were absolutely correct.

And now you’re trying to welch out of your promise to pay $3000 to Elizabeth Warren’s charity of choice.

You publicly shot your mouth off and staked real money on a claim that something “DID NOT HAPPEN” (a direct quote), and now that it’s been proven it DID happen, you’re weaseling out of it and even editing your old posts to change the terms of your wager.

Pretty sleazy behavior. Really, Jim. You should pay up. You lost the bet. Stop thrashing around and be a man.

Related
Jim Hoft’s Monumental Fail of the Week: Tea Party Nazi Signs Were Real
Also see
Here Is Jim Hoft’s Apology From Your Wonkette

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450 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:06:49pm

Speaking of monumental stupidity, here is the Second Stupidest Person on Teh Internets spending Memorial Day cheering on a bunch of goons in the UK who went on a pogrom against random Muslims who did not chop up any people and calls their rampage “A March For Freedom”:

2 thecommodore  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:07:04pm

A similar incident happened in 2009 when Nancy Pelosi said teabaggers were “carrying swastikas” to a town hall meeting about health care reform. A picture was found of someone carrying a sign with a swastika with a red line drawn through it, and the tea party said this shows it was anti-Nazi…which begs the question of why Hitler and Nazis were brought into the discussion in the first place, which is what I think Pelosi’s point was, and swinging back to 2013, what I think the DSCC’s point was too.

3 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:22:30pm

Dear Bryan: Gay soldiers died to protect your freedom.

4 Red Lion  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:24:37pm

Charles, the proper verb, politically incorrect as it may be, is “welsh.” You welsh on a bet, etc. See here: merriam-webster.com

5 Red Lion  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:25:38pm

Oops, I see further down that “welch” is an acceptable variant. Forgive my pedantry.

6 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:26:30pm

re: #5 Red Lion

I actually checked it myself. I prefer “welch,” because it isn’t an ethnic classification.

7 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:27:28pm
8 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:27:32pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I actually checked it myself. I prefer “welch,” because it isn’t an ethnic classification.

You could say “stiffed” but that might be construed as an insult to dead people.

9 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:30:37pm

Let’s be honest, did anybody expect something different? Expect that Hoft would have an ounce of decency, admit he’d made a bad call, and agree to the terms he’d set?

10 Egregious Philbin  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:31:14pm

Hoft…what a pussy.

BTW, can anyone read the responses at DERP’s posts? They don’t come up for me any more….conspiracy?

11 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:31:59pm

sooooo…is John McCain secretly meddling in foreign policy?

Sen. McCain makes trip to Syria to meet with rebels

12 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:32:14pm

And now, SHARKNADO!

Via Palme d’Awful: The Worst Films for Sale at Cannes.

13 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:36:54pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

Dear Bryan: Gay soldiers died to protect your freedom.

Whenever you post Bryan’s tweets I have to hold back from downdinging cause it downdings you instead of him…

Seriously it’s hard to read his comments without wanting to send a box of dog shit to his house each time.

14 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:37:41pm

and i’d be shocked - shocked! - if rush limbaugh doesn’t live up to his promise to leave the country if obamacare hasn’t been repealed by five years after it was enacted

15 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:38:57pm

re: #14 engineer cat

and i’d be shocked - shocked! - if rush limbaugh doesn’t live up to his promise to leave the country if obamacare hasn’t been repealed by five years after it was enacted

Or Sean Hannity agreeing to be waterboarded.

16 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:39:57pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

And now, SHARKNADO!

Via Palme d’Awful: The Worst Films for Sale at Cannes.

Are those actual films that got produced or just Photoshop entries for the “Make a Poster for the Lamest Movie Ever” contest.

17 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:40:00pm

I think when I’ve seen these bets by loudmouths on the internet they always welch, always.

Can anyone find me an example of one of these guys actually paying off?

18 122 Year Old Obama  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:40:18pm

re: #13 stabby

The man is infuriating.

19 Single-handed sailor  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:40:18pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I actually checked it myself. I prefer “welch,” because it isn’t an ethnic classification.

My Welsh ancestors thank you.
/

20 sagehen  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:41:23pm

“actual conversations with my 2 year old daughter, as re-enacted by me and another full grown man.”

Youtube Video

21 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:42:11pm

re: #19 Single-handed sailor

Fine, I changed my to welch. Sorry, grape juice packagers!

22 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:43:37pm

re: #17 stabby

I think when I’ve seen these bets by loudmouths on the internet they always welsh, always.

Can anyone find me an example of one of these guys actually paying off?

There’s always a “catch” that they invoke. See Limbaugh telling folks that, despite his promise to move to Costa Rica if Obamacare became law, he came out shortly afterward to tell folks “No, I just said I’d go there to get my healthcare.”

23 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:46:19pm
24 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:49:59pm

What a douche.

25 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:54:30pm

re: #19 Single-handed sailor

My Welsh ancestors thank you.
/

that’s very cymru of you!

26 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:55:58pm

I’m listening to the strangest remix. For part of it they took different parts of the same song and cut them together in partial measures, changing the beat.

27 EdEncho  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:56:17pm

re: #11 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yes I just saw this. McCain, normally seen on Sunday mornings getting blow jobs from David Gregory and the rest of the beltway presstitutes has chosen to piss on the graves of the nation’s war dead to flagrantly interfere in U.S. foreign policy with his latest publicity gimmick. Come on old man, you LOST the election the the black dude living in the WHITE House, stop being such a dyspeptic old fart and stop undermining your country. Not that undermining his country is a new thing for this self-admitted “war criminal”, he did make those propaganda pieces for the V.C. to curry favorable treatment in the Hanoi Hilton.

What a disgusting and diseased swine, he and his butt-buddy Lindsey Graham, they both should be sent to live in 8 x 8 cages in Gitmo along with the rest of the teabagger fifth columnists.

Just my two cents

EE

28 nines09  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:57:36pm

To those who would carry such a symbol here is your piece of REALITY. You fucking piece of shit jerk off. If I’m driving past a gaggle of “Patriots” and one has a sign with SS anywhere on it, it’s Film At 11. Jim Hoft is either a liar, a moron, brain damaged, or all three with inbreeding playing a part larger than the noticeable crib neglect. Punks.

29 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:57:41pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I actually checked it myself. I prefer “welch,” because it isn’t an ethnic classification.

Yeah, but watch out for the lawyers for the grape juice people.

30 bratwurst  Mon, May 27, 2013 1:59:50pm

re: #27 EdEncho

If I composed something with as many references to bodily functions and all around blather as you have there, I don’t think I would be signing my initials to it.

31 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:02:31pm

re: #19 Single-handed sailor

My Welsh ancestors thank you.
/

Is this one of them?

32 Stephen T.  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:04:18pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

Dear Bryan, there are more people in slavery today than at any other point in history.

33 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:05:09pm

re: #27 EdEncho

re: #30 bratwurst

If I composed something with as many references to bodily functions and all around blather as you have there, I don’t think I would be signing my initials to it.

Well, he/ she couldn’t get anyone elses initials on it, I guess!!

{sigh}

34 nines09  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:10:18pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Will Jim Cantore be in a role?
“It’s a twister……WITH SHARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY SMOKES! GEEEZZZZ!!! WOWWWWW!!!!!!

35 Mentis Fugit  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:10:23pm

re: #8 Vicious Babushka

You could say “stiffed” but that might be construed as an insult to dead people.

I think “renege” is the classiest synonym.

Unfortunately, even that option is tainted by wingnut bumper sticker rhetoric.

36 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:10:58pm

re: #27 EdEncho

Dude, chill out, and stop saying stupid shit like ‘butt-buddy’ and throwing around idiocy like ‘fifth columnists’.

37 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:11:59pm

One Last Chance
By Charles P. Pierce

“There is no issue more important than this one because there is no issue that does not depend vitally on this one.”

38 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:13:56pm

I’m starting to get a real troll vibe.

39 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:17:31pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

I haven’t figured out yet whether the really incoherent trolls are more likely to be 15 year olds or just unpleasant adults with poor communication skills.

40 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:19:20pm

The Accuracy In Media, best in journalism winner strikes out again with tighty whiteys on his head with the bases loaded.

41 122 Year Old Obama  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:19:49pm

re: #39 stabby

I haven’t figured out yet whether the really incoherent trolls are more likely to be 15 year olds or just unpleasant adults with poor communication skills.

I resemble that remark. :P

42 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:22:00pm

re: #39 stabby

Hey Stabby, since it’s kind of a quiet thread, maybe you could answer something. You’ve stated repeatedly that Islam is the worst religion in the world— or at least worst major religion.

Your support for this is twofold:

1. You assert that you’ve read the Qu’Ran, compared it to other texts,and likewise studied the character of Mohammed and compared him to the important figures in other religions, and from your analysis the Qu’Ran contains the most evil instructions and Mohammed is the most destructive ideal.

2. You assert that simply by looking at the world today, we can see more Muslim extremists, therefore Islam is more extreme.

My criticisms of this are:

1a. That your supposed study is unproven, and that the Tanakh contains a lot of really horrific stuff in it as instructions from god, and a lot of heroes that do ethically terrible things, like genocide, rape, etc. You haven’t addressed why, with such a violent text and unethical heroes, you don’t think that Judaism has the same inherent flaws as Islam.

1b. It’s trivially demonstrable that most Christians don’t live their lives in anything like a christ-like way, so on what basis do you think the example of Christ makes Christians behave in a certain way?

2a. By looking at various points in history, we can see that at some times, members of other religions— mostly Christianity— have dominated extremism on a worldwide scale. From the Christian-fueled colonization of the New World to the massacres of Jews again and again over centuries, culminating in Nazi Germany, Christian nations, leaders, and doctrine have been radical beyond radical. Why do you refuse to look at the past when analyzing religion?


I’d note that a response to this would involve addressing the criticisms, and not simply, as you usually do, restating the premise, insulting my intelligence, or accusing me of some bizarre meta-game.

43 HoosierHoops  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:25:53pm

EE.. If that really is your 2 cents worth.You probably shouldn’t watch political shows. The vulgarity in the depth and breadth of your version of the American Political Machine seems to lack any strong poly-sci background and history. Weak tea. The whole blow jobs and your descriptions of politics probably plays well in some cheap bar in the SOHO. Not here.
/That’s my 2 cents

44 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:26:37pm

re: #43 HoosierHoops

There are no longer any cheap bars in SoHo.

45 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:27:06pm

re: #35 Mentis Fugit

I think “renege” is the classiest synonym.

Unfortunately, even that option is tainted by wingnut bumper sticker rhetoric.

Actually, I think that’s the best reason to use that particular synonym.

Saying “Jim Hoft is a dirty reneger!”, etc, is going to generate a specific set of allusions in the heads of certain people in Hoft’s target demo.

46 EdEncho  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:29:13pm

re: #30 bratwurst

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

47 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:29:18pm

re: #45 AntonSirius

Actually, I think that’s the best reason to use that particular synonym.

Saying “Jim Hoft is a dirty reneger!”, etc, is going to generate a specific set of allusions in the heads of certain people in Hoft’s target demo.

I think just saying “Jim Hoft is a putz” kinda covers it all…

48 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:29:19pm

Of course you could also push it one further and say “Jim Hoft, that dirty reneger, is very niggardly when it comes to paying off his debts”.

49 HoosierHoops  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:29:52pm

re: #44 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

There are no longer any cheap bars in SoHo.

mmm. One of my fav’s is the Black Magic in SF. I guess just about any joint with the name of Firehouse in it will do.

50 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:30:53pm

re: #49 HoosierHoops

mmm. One of my fav’s is the Black Magic in SF. I guess just about any joint with the name of Firehouse in it will do.

Ah well in that case, if you’re ever near Ocean City, Maryland, there’s an awesome restaurant that’s been converted from a former firehouse. Best cornbread I’ve ever had and superb brisket too.

51 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:31:36pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

Well, have a nice life.

52 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:31:42pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

A little free advice

When you’re in a hole, stop digging

Your point could have been made without all the moronic references and vulgarity

Not EE!!

53 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:32:10pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

You were warned politely. Quit being a vulgar dickhead.

54 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:32:28pm

re: #42 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think we’ve talked about this more than enough.

It occurs to me that classifying one religion as better than another is the obsession of many religious people, since most religions claim to be the only true one and that everyone who isn’t in their club goes to hell.

That’s why you find so many nuts who have to talk about how one religion or another is inferior. Since I believe in none of them, any resemblance between my opinion and that dross is totally coincidental.

You don’t have to share my pessimism about Islam. I don’t need your agreement.

Also, I got problems in real life to deal with for the next few months…
[stabby goes over his resume and sighs]

Youtube Video

55 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:33:28pm

re: #27 EdEncho

Dear Mr. Encho:

You are new here, but we really do not like the same style of rhetoric that they use at Breitbart.

56 bratwurst  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:33:38pm

re: #46 EdEncho

At least you didn’t bother to sign that one!

57 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:33:43pm

re: #54 stabby

I think we’ve talked about this more than enough.

It occurs to me that classifying one religion as better than another is the obsession of many religious people, since most religions claim to be the only true one and that everyone who isn’t in their club goes to hell.

That’s why you find so many nuts who have to talk about how one religion or another is inferior. Since I believe in none of them, any resemblance between my opinion and that dross is totally coincidental.

You don’t have to share my pessimism about Islam. I don’t need your agreement.

Also, I got problems in real life to deal with for the next few months…
[stabby goes over his resume and sighs]

[Embedded content]

So, in other words, no, you’re not able to offer anything to those criticisms, you’re unwilling to examine your position, and you’ll remain a bigot sharing the same view on the evilness of Islam as Robert Spencer.

Awesome. You rule, dude.

58 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:34:51pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

You’re excused, Diceman. It’s not exactly other people’s fault if they don’t respond to your shtick though, is it?

59 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:36:11pm

re: #57 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’ve explained quite enough.

And last time you ended up conceding that Islam is inferior in every way (after I had listed them all), with the caveat that somehow the present doesn’t count for judging a religion

Nuts.

Only the present counts, anything else is not what actually exists.

You just want to abuse me by saying “Spencer” over and over.

Fuck off and stop stalking me.

60 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:37:04pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

Dear Bryan: Gay soldiers died to protect your freedom.

What I love about this is he sees the defeating of the rights of consenting adults as freedom and being akin to the fight to abolish slavery. I mean no one’s ever excused Mr. Fischer of ever lacking perspective ever.//

61 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:37:17pm

I bought a brand new grill today and now it’s totally raining. :(

62 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:37:18pm

I was going to drop fucktastic douche firehose but hesitated as it seemed a tad over the top.

But it was hard. Very very hard.

63 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:38:55pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I’m being repressed!

64 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:39:08pm

re: #59 stabby

I’ve explained quite enough.

No, you’ve never addressed the criticisms above. Every time, you do the standard thing of someone with no argument— you claim you’ve already explained. you never, never have.

And last time you ended up conceding that Islam is inferior in every way (after I had listed them all), with the caveat that somehow the present doesn’t count for judging a religion

This is a complete lie, and it’s interesting to see. Do you actually believe it?

What I said was that you can’t just count the present in analyzing a religion. Somehow, to you, this translated as ‘the present doesn’t count’.

Do you realize you’re making this massive distortions, and argue dishonestly on purpose, or are you that good at fooling yourself?

Fuck off and stop stalking me.

Stabby, I’m not going to stop ‘stalking’ you by posting on the website that I posted on long before you, thanks. And I’m going to keep holding you to account for your views. If you can’t stand being held to account to your views, that means your views are probably pretty shitty.

Try to put together an actual response to the criticisms. Maybe you’ll find that the criticisms of your position require you to change it.

65 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:41:06pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

And now, SHARKNADO!

Via Palme d’Awful: The Worst Films for Sale at Cannes.

I would totally see FDR: American Badass. Ray Wise AND Bruce McGill? Yeah baby!

66 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:43:07pm

SHARKNADO: Vampire Slayer vs Alien vs Predator

67 bratwurst  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:43:28pm

re: #64 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Stabby, I’m not going to stop ‘stalking’ you by posting on the website that I posted on long before you, thanks.

Actually, “stabby” has admitted in the past that he used to post here under a different name years ago.

Here is how I know:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

68 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:43:46pm

re: #64 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

You don’t have a coherent argument, you just have your self righteousness, your abuse and your obtuse, deliberate will to pretend you can’t understand an argument.

You do this because you think it’s your moral duty to insult and punish me for my supposed bigoted sin.

Don’t bother me anymore, you’re just an asshole.

69 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45:02pm

I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.

I’ll leave you two to figure out which is which.

70 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45:30pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

This community is not Kos or Balloon Juice (which has sadly degraded over the past couple of years).

Civility is still valued here, and you are not making a good introduction.

Certain racist persons are open game for mockery, as are other people in the public eye who engage in unseemly behavior or disgrace the office they hold. Mocking the time that a person spent being tortured as a POW, no matter how much you disagree with his politics, will not make you many friends here, and neither will homophobic slurs.

Please consider this before commenting again.

71 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:45:43pm
72 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:46:40pm

re: #65 Eclectic Cyborg

I would totally FDR: American Badass. Ray Wise AND Bruce McGill? Yeah baby!

You do have to admit that it was heartwarming when FDR met with Tommy who worked on the dock and he told FDR about Gina who works in a diner all day, and FDR said you just have to live on a prayer.

73 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:47:24pm

re: #68 stabby

You don’t have a coherent argument, you just have your self righteousness, your abuse and your obtuse, deliberate will to pretend you can’t understand an argument.

You do this because you think it’s your moral duty to insult and punish me for my supposed bigoted sin.

Don’t bother me anymore, you’re just an asshole.

This is getting old, and you are begging Charles for a time out from the look of things.

74 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:47:26pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Bye, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Feel free to come back after growing up.

75 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:48:39pm

re: #68 stabby

You don’t have a coherent argument, you just have your self righteousness, your abuse and your obtuse, deliberate will to pretend you can’t understand an argument.

You do this because you think it’s your moral duty to insult and punish me for my supposed bigoted sin.

Don’t bother me anymore, you’re just an asshole.

OK, you won’t answer him because you don’t like him and you think he’s stalking you. Is there anyone who could ask you to justify your bigotry attitude about Islam to whom you would give an answer? Or is it time to face the fact that there is no justification?

76 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:48:39pm

re: #68 stabby

You don’t have a coherent argument, you just have your self righteousness, your abuse and your obtuse, deliberate will to pretend you can’t understand an argument.

Stabby, I presented my argument in a very easily understandable format. I stated my premises, showed my support for them, and demonstrated why they are sufficient criticisms of your position. Your responses often include a distortion of my position, like claiming that I said that I thought the present doesn’t count.

Pretending I don’t have a coherent argument when it’s sitting right there on the page just makes it look like you’re either dodging the issue or that you can’t recognize a coherent argument.

And pyschology via TCP/IP is, usually and in this case, just silly. I don’t feel a moral duty to insult you, I feel that it’s a good thing to point out the flaws in bigoted arguments.

77 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:49:22pm

re: #69 AntonSirius

I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.

I’ll leave you two to figure out which is which.

I call dibs on baking duties, regardless of gender.

78 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:50:45pm

re: #76 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’ve presented my argument plenty of times.

I’m finished with that.

You’re hoping to to keep abusing me and misrepresenting that argument till I blow up and get kicked out.

The argument is over except for your abuse, and I wish this blog had better standards than to let you get away with that.

79 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:50:51pm

re: #70 celticdragon

This community is not Kos or Balloon Juice (which has sadly degraded over the past couple of years).

Civility is still valued here, and you are not making a good introduction.

Certain racist persons are open game for mockery, as are other people in the public eye who engage in unseemly behavior or disgrace the office they hold. Mocking the time that a person spent being tortured as a POW, no matter how much you disagree with his politics, will not make you many friends here, and neither will homophobic slurs.

Please consider this before commenting again.

Yes, this. I may not longer have any respect for McCain but I am not going to diss his POW service. Besides, how hard is it really to just call a guy an ass? That’s what I don’t get about homophobic slurs. You can just call someone a generic insult just as easily and still make your point.

80 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:51:00pm

re: #68 stabby

No, the jerk here is the one defining a whole religion by the events since the death of the Ottoman Empire 90 years ago. When the faith itself is about 1400 years old.

Nevermind that we can go down this rabbit hole with Christianity. The mass murders during the Crusades, the vicious fighting between Protestants and Catholics (which went on until very recently in Northern Ireland, and isolated incidents still happen), or the Russian Orthodox genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Adyghe and other Muslim Circassians in the 1800’s. Or the Serbian Orthodox Mass Killings and rapes of Bosnians, Croatians, and Albanians (both the main group, and the Kosovar Sub-group)

81 Randall Gross  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:52:22pm
82 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:53:38pm

Sharknado is apparently a real film, much to my surprise. According to the IMDB, it had a production budget of one million dollars, making it a pretty low-budget flick by modern standards.

It’ll turn up on Scyfy in the not-too-distant future, I presume.

imdb.com

83 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:54:51pm

re: #81 Randall Gross

Why am I getting that Afghanistan feeling all over again? Didn’t we already watch this movie and know how it ends?

84 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:54:58pm

re: #78 stabby

I’ve presented my argument plenty of times.

I’m finished with that.

Do you understand that what I wrote is criticisms of your ‘argument’, and that I’m saying you’ve never responded to them? In my post I actually present your argument— if you feel it’s a distortion or insufficient, just point out where.

You’re hoping to to keep abusing me and misrepresenting that argument till I blow up and get kicked out.

The argument is over except for your abuse, and I wish this blog had better standards than to let you get away with that.

Why would you blow up and get kicked out? We’re having an argument on the internet. Just chill out, stop whining, and actually answer the criticisms of your argument.

Again, if you feel I’ve misrepresented your argument, then explain how. If you can deal with the criticisms, do so.

But continually claiming one reason or another you can’t or won’t is just obviously dodging responding to the criticisms.

Again, in my first post I asked that you not fall into the idiocy of accusing me of some bizarre meta-game. This whole ‘oooh you’ll make me mad and I’ll blow my top and it’ll be your fault’ is really asinine self-excusing bullshit.

85 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:55:47pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

Why am I getting that Afghanistan feeling all over again? Didn’t we already watch this movie and know how it ends?

This film has been playing on a continuous loop for more than a hundred years now.

86 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:55:56pm

re: #77 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sorry, I felt like I had to say something. In the past week, I have tried to avoid fighting on here if it happens. But I am tired of Stabby bashing my faith. Something that is a part of me.

87 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:56:31pm

re: #82 Dr Lizardo

Sharknado is apparently a real film, much to my surprise. According to the IMDB, it had a production budget of one million dollars, making it a pretty low-budget flick by modern standards.

It’ll turn up on Scyfy in the not-too-distant future, I presume.

imdb.com

I think I’ll watch it. I’ve got a real weakness for ridiculous movies. As I alluded to, I’ve seen FDR: American Badass and want to write a screenplay for a movie called Spoof Movie (a spoof of the absurdly bad spoof movies not involving Mel Brooks from the past decade).

88 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:56:54pm
89 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:57:19pm
Again, if you feel I’ve misrepresented your argument, then explain how.

I explained that over and over.

As I said THIS TIME you have a “deliberate will to pretend that you can’t understand an argument”, also for the reasons stated.

You can go back and reread our other arguments if you want enlightenment. There are thousands of words there.

Have fun.

90 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:57:27pm

re: #86 ProTARDISLiberal

As long as you get on top of your group-blame stuff, which you seem to have recently, you and I are cool. I hope that continues to be the case.

91 Randall Gross  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:57:28pm

re: #88 Charles Johnson

VB also just paged that.

92 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:57:56pm

re: #85 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This film has been playing on a continuous loop for more than a hundred years now.

“These are the freedom fighters, the Minutemen, of course we’ll support their righteous cause!”

*six months later*

“How dare those damned rebels not adopt democracy and praise Free Market Jesus?! Who do they think they are to take our help and then blow us a raspberry?!”

*10 years later*

“Syria has become a terrorist’s haven! We must liberate it from the authoritarian regime that runs it and give the country back to the people!”

93 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:58:22pm

re: #88 Charles Johnson

Yeah I saw VB’s page. Totally expecting the usual suspects to cry about it but hey being a bunch of fascist fuckwads seems to be a turn-off, who knew?

94 sagehen  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:58:29pm

re: #77 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I call dibs on baking duties, regardless of gender.

As long as you’re not making any of that sugarless crap. And be sure there’s planety of butter in whatever it is you’re making.

95 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:58:37pm

re: #89 stabby

I explained that over and over.

As I said THIS TIME you have a “deliberate will to pretend that you can’t understand an argument”, also for the reasons stated.

You can go back and reread our other arguments if you want enlightenment. There are thousands of words there.

Have fun.

You haven’t explained how I’m distorting your argument, no. Why not shut me up and just do it right now? What do you lose by doing so? I don’t get why, if you feel your argument is a good one, you’re so hesitant to defend it in any way.

96 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 2:59:48pm

re: #85 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Just different actors.

97 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:01:28pm
98 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:02:09pm

re: #92 Targetpractice

“These are the freedom fighters, the Minutemen, of course we’ll support their righteous cause!”

*six months later*

“How dare those damned rebels not adopt democracy and praise Free Market Jesus?! Who do they think they are to take our help and then blow us a raspberry?!”

*10 years later*

“Syria has become a terrorist’s haven! We must liberate it from the authoritarian regime that runs it and give the country back to the people!”

Yeah, this is why we need to pick and choose our battles/involvements carefully.There needs to be consideration for the long term and lack of consideration for the long term I think has been where US foreign policy has committed the most blunders.

99 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:02:55pm

re: #86 ProTARDISLiberal

If it makes you feel better, I have no respect for my own family’s religion. I still think the PEOPLE deserve respect and defending.

People do not equal beliefs.

Seriously, if I could wish every religious book on the planet to disintegrate, I would do so instantly. If I could make everyone forget their faith and no longer need it, I would.

100 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:03:31pm

re: #94 sagehen

As long as you’re not making any of that sugarless crap. And be sure there’s planety of butter in whatever it is you’re making.

C-5 or 747 load?

101 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:03:31pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

No, we will not. Go hang out elsewhere, if this is not to your liking.

102 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:04:45pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

I think I’ll watch it. I’ve got a real weakness for ridiculous movies. As I alluded to, I’ve seen FDR: American Badass and want to write a screenplay for a movie called Spoof Movie (a spoof of the absurdly bad spoof movies not involving Mel Brooks from the past decade).

I’ve got an idea for a zombie movie The Asylum crew would plotz over. I’ll only write it if I can guarantee Nathan Fillion plays the lead though.

103 Awea  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:04:53pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

And now, SHARKNADO!

Via Palme d’Awful: The Worst Films for Sale at Cannes.

How is Rob Schneider nor Jim Belushi not involved in any of those films?

104 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05:22pm

re: #99 stabby

If it makes you feel better, I have no respect for my own family’s religion. I still think the PEOPLE deserve respect and defending.

People do not equal beliefs.

Seriously, if I could wish every religious book on the planet to disintegrate, I would do so instantly. If I could make everyone forget their faith and no longer need it, I would.

So your beliefs warrant depriving other people of theirs? How does that show respect for the people involved?

105 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05:32pm

re: #103 Awea

How is Rob Schneider nor Jim Belushi not involved in any of those films?

Rob’s probably working on that cinematic genius that will be Grown Up 3. Can’t speak for Jim though.

106 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:05:37pm

re: #99 stabby

Seriously, if I could wish every religious book on the planet to disintegrate, I would do so instantly. If I could make everyone forget their faith and no longer need it, I would.

Holy shit.

A) People would invent new religions. People have a genetic tendency to be religious. Religion isn’t a virus that got into us long ago and has replicated ever since. It’s part of human nature. If you want a future free from oppression by religion, it doesn’t involve destruction of religion. Religion thrives on oppression.

B) Why the fuck do you think you’d have the moral and ethical standing to make that call?

107 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:06:04pm

re: #68 stabby

You don’t have a coherent argument, you just have your self righteousness, your abuse and your obtuse, deliberate will to pretend you can’t understand an argument.

You do this because you think it’s your moral duty to insult and punish me for my supposed bigoted sin.

Don’t bother me anymore, you’re just an asshole

Don’t bother me anymore, you’re just an asshole

.

Pot, meet kettle. Oh, and do you have a mirror?

108 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:07:30pm

re: #99 stabby

If it makes you feel better, I have no respect for my own family’s religion. I still think the PEOPLE deserve respect and defending.

People do not equal beliefs.

Seriously, if I could wish every religious book on the planet to disintegrate, I would do so instantly. If I could make everyone forget their faith and no longer need it, I would.

If Bryan Fischer could make everyone (including Christians of denominations other than the one he belongs to) drop everything and join his church, he would.

You are different from him exactly how?

109 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:07:44pm

re: #78 stabby

It is the better standards that exist here that require you to put up or shut up…just saying

110 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:09:32pm

Surprise, surprise…

Racial panic monger “Crunchy Con” Rod Dreher at The American Conservative (home of paleo race baiter Pat Buchanan) has been getting his alternate media talking points from Steve Sailer at VDARE and Gates Of Vienna….not to mention the neo fascist linked FriaTider.

The derpitude in the comments is simply amazing.

111 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:09:47pm

re: #86 ProTARDISLiberal

I’m not Muslim, but hopefully you can take heart in AAO’s attempt to get Stabby to put up or shut up

112 Mentis Fugit  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:10:08pm

re: #48 AntonSirius

Of course you could also push it one further and say “Jim Hoft, that dirty reneger, is very niggardly when it comes to paying off his debts”.

I have this niggling feeling that the response would be,

“see its those libtards who ar teh reel racsists.”

113 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:11:27pm

re: #109 DisturbedEma

It is the better standards that exist here that require you to put up or shut up…just saying

That “better standard” seems to include deliberately misparsing the answer when it wasn’t the one you were hoping for, and liberally sprinkling in abuse over and over to substitute for actual argument.

I’m done parrying that.

114 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:12:19pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

I think I’ll watch it. I’ve got a real weakness for ridiculous movies. As I alluded to, I’ve seen FDR: American Badass and want to write a screenplay for a movie called Spoof Movie (a spoof of the absurdly bad spoof movies not involving Mel Brooks from the past decade).

Last night I introduced two friends and former students to Flash Gordon. They were bored and had nothing to do, so when they showed up, I said, “I’ve got a movie for you. It’s got Max von Sydow.” Of course, these two young ladies being fans of oh-so-serious films by Ingmar Bergman knew immediately who I was talking about.

I don’t think, however, they were quite prepared for seeing Max von Sydow devour the scenery with a large side of awesomesauce. Nonetheless, they both actually genuinely enjoyed the film, and they got the humor of it as well without difficulty.

Flash Gordon - the best bad film ever made. It shouldn’t work, but it does. Max von Sydow’s ‘Ming the Merciless’ is one of the all-time great screen villains and the supporting cast was top-notch as well, especially Brian Blessed, Timothy Dalton, Peter Wyngarde and Mariangela Melato, and of course, Ornella Muti as Princess Aura - a great femme fatale.

115 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:13:07pm

re: #99 stabby

Why should it make people feel better to know that you don’t even respect your family? Very puzzling indeed. I admit it creeped me the heck out when I read your take on religious faith and such- very scorched earth of you in a weird way

116 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:13:12pm

re: #111 DisturbedEma

I really do appreciate Obdi’s efforts on this. Because it means I don’t need to get fighty. When I get fighty, I do end up crossing lines and being in general a nasty person. So, I shouldn’t get into fights.

117 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:13:40pm

re: #110 celticdragon

Surprise, surprise…

Racial panic monger “Crunchy Con” Rod Dreher at The American Conservative (home of paleo race baiter Pat Buchanan) has been getting his alternate media talking points from Steve Sailer at VDARE and Gates Of Vienna….not to mention the neo fascist linked FriaTider.

The derpitude in the comments is simply amazing.

Wow. Fewer and fewer people see any need to hide their racism any more, it seems.

118 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:14:05pm

re: #113 stabby

That “better standard” seems to include deliberately misparsing the answer when it wasn’t the one you were hoping for, and liberally sprinkling in abuse over and over to substitute for actual argument.

I’m done parrying that.

Then explain how I misparsed the answer, Stabby. Don’t just state it, show it. You keep simply asserting, and never, ever backing up what you say.

It’s also weird that, in a thread where you accuse me of misparsing, you stated that I said that the present doesn’t count when analyzing religion. This was, of course, a distortion and misparsing of what I said, which was that not just the present counts in analyzing a religion.

119 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:14:24pm

re: #114 Dr Lizardo

Really fun film. One of the best bad sci films out of the 70’s.

120 Jolo5309  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:14:51pm

re: #115 DisturbedEma

Why should it make people feel better to know that you don’t even respect your family? Very puzzling indeed. I admit it creeped me the heck out when I read your take on religious faith and such- very scorched earth of you in a weird way

He didn’t say he didn’t respect his family, he said he didn’t respect his family’s religion.

Totally different kettle of fish

121 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:15:29pm

re: #110 celticdragon

Surprise, surprise…

Racial panic monger “Crunchy Con” Rod Dreher at The American Conservative (home of paleo race baiter Pat Buchanan) has been getting his alternate media talking points from Steve Sailer at VDARE and Gates Of Vienna….not to mention the neo fascist linked FriaTider.

The derpitude in the comments is simply amazing.

I just wish I could be surprised but I just can’t anymore about Pat Buchanan especially. It still does amaze me that Buchanan managed to become a key adviser in a couple White Houses.

122 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:16:12pm

re: #114 Dr Lizardo

Last night I introduced two friends and former students to Flash Gordon. They were bored and had nothing to do, so when they showed up, I said, “I’ve got a movie for you. It’s got Max von Sydow.” Of course, these two young ladies being fans of oh-so-serious films by Ingmar Bergman knew immediately who I was talking about.

I don’t think, however, they were quite prepared for seeing Max von Sydow devour the scenery with a large side of awesomesauce. Nonetheless, they both actually genuinely enjoyed the film, and they got the humor of it as well without difficulty.

Flash Gordon - the best bad film ever made. It shouldn’t work, but it does. Max von Sydow’s ‘Ming the Merciless’ is one of the all-time great screen villains and the supporting cast was top-notch as well, especially Brian Blessed, Timothy Dalton, Peter Wyngarde and Mariangela Melato, and of course, Ornella Muti as Princess Aura - a great femme fatale.

I’ll add that. Thanks.

123 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:16:22pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

re: #104 wrenchwench

Religion is a delusion forced on children. It is the abuse of the maximal threat and of the empty promises that prevent people from learning to think. It is the pronouncements whose moral certitude combined with stupid rationalization and inflexibility take the place of empathy and thought.

Religion deprives us of the clear vision we need to understand ourselves and have real empathy for others.

Humanity would be much better off without it.

124 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:16:31pm

re: #113 stabby

B.O.R.I.N.G. You are.

125 A Mom Anon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:17:04pm

Well, while the internets has been fighting with itself….

My grandchildren are all on their way home from the hospital as I type this. Their injuries shouldn’t leave lasting scars(well except the child who had his scalp parted to the bone from forehead to crown), I’m not sure about the emotional ones yet.

And seriously, some people need to get some damned perspective. I just had my world rocked hard and about lost a large chunk of my family because of one stupid addicted idiot. All the stuff I posted this weekend about those kids brought out the best in this community, try to remember that as you proceed to tear each other to shreds(well some of you, and you know who you are). Don’t be stupid, it’s contagious.

126 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:17:13pm

re: #113 stabby

You seem to need all of your positions to be seen as correct and infallible- no matter what anyone else posts, and that just doesn’t fly here, this is not a “because I said so it’s true” forum. I have had many posters on this site provide me with information for their views and post citations to support those views, and learned a lot, which is maybe why you are struggling here. You can learn here, you can disagree with people here, however, if you post things that others do not agree with, be prepared to bring your A game…you will not get away with the crap that passes for discourse on other sites.

127 bubba zanetti  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:17:17pm

re: #119 celticdragon

Still freaked out by the scene that was some sort of Russian roulette thing where you had to stick your hand in holes inhabited by some sort of sting-y bite-y critter.

128 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:17:31pm

re: #117 wrenchwench

Wow. Fewer and fewer people see any need to hide their racism any more, it seems.

Rod has been on a “ZOMG teh black flash mobs iz coming fer da white wimminz an teh childrens!!11TY!” kick for some time now.

I used to respect the guy.

Sad.

129 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:17:32pm

re: #115 DisturbedEma

I do respect my family.

But beliefs can not be respected. Statements about the world are either true or false. To “respect” the false is to choose to be full of bullshit. Not everyone is capable of that.

130 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:18:22pm

re: #116 ProTARDISLiberal

I’m glad it helps.

131 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:18:24pm

re: #127 bubba zanetti

Still freaked out by the scene that was some sort of Russian roulette thing where you had to stick your hand in holes inhabited by some sort of sting-y bite-y critter.

That was actually a pretty good scene there. Scary and effective.

132 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:18:30pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

And now, SHARKNADO!

Via Palme d’Awful: The Worst Films for Sale at Cannes.

But…but… it’s got Tara Reid in it!

//

Afternoon, all. I see that Hoft is still exuding butthurt for being caught for an idjit.

133 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:19:02pm

re: #114 Dr Lizardo

Last night I introduced two friends and former students to Flash Gordon. They were bored and had nothing to do, so when they showed up, I said, “I’ve got a movie for you. It’s got Max von Sydow.” Of course, these two young ladies being fans of oh-so-serious films by Ingmar Bergman knew immediately who I was talking about.

I don’t think, however, they were quite prepared for seeing Max von Sydow devour the scenery with a large side of awesomesauce. Nonetheless, they both actually genuinely enjoyed the film, and they got the humor of it as well without difficulty.

Flash Gordon - the best bad film ever made. It shouldn’t work, but it does. Max von Sydow’s ‘Ming the Merciless’ is one of the all-time great screen villains and the supporting cast was top-notch as well, especially Brian Blessed, Timothy Dalton, Peter Wyngarde and Mariangela Melato, and of course, Ornella Muti as Princess Aura - a great femme fatale.

Just allow me to say…

DIIIIIIIIIVE!

Youtube Video

134 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:19:03pm

re: #123 stabby

Do you really not understand what the religious impulse is, and that it’s part of human nature?

The same capacity that allows us to make ‘leaps of logic’ and understand larger patterns also leads us to, when combined with our emotional reaction to the universe, turns into an idea that there is a grand pattern.

You can’t destroy that without fundamentally changing humanity. There will always be religious people, but we can still have a secular society where religion is considered a personal matter and not a source of ethics for the commonality.

135 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:19:41pm

re: #125 A Mom Anon

sending healing vibes your way!

136 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:20:11pm

re: #132 austin_blue

But…but… it’s got Tara Reid in it!

//

Afternoon, all. I see that Hoft is still exuding butthurt for being caught for an idjit.

That sort of things happens when you take the rhetorical seat off of your pedagogical bicycle and then forcibly impale your posterior on what remains.

137 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:20:19pm

re: #123 stabby

Tolerance is not your strong point.

138 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:20:21pm

Off to feed children their veggie lasagna…later :)

139 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:11pm

Gonna play Warhammer fantasy with my kid. His Ogre army is kinda impressive.

140 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:13pm

re: #114 Dr Lizardo

Everything is better with Brian Blessed. Your mention of him just improved my day. I would pay money to watch him read stuff aloud. Shopping lists, stereo instructions, Tweets.

141 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:36pm

re: #132 austin_blue

But…but… it’s got Tara Reid in it!

//

Afternoon, all. I see that Hoft is still exuding butthurt for being caught for an idjit.

Greatest casting decision ever…

Tara Reid as a Museum Curator.

Nailed it.
/

142 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:45pm

re: #127 bubba zanetti

Nope, you couldn’t get me to do that in a million years.

143 bubba zanetti  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:50pm

re: #131 celticdragon

“Trial by Treebeast”. It’s on YouTube (of course).

Youtube Video

144 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:51pm

re: #71 Vicious Babushka

What do these “Patriotic” Americans have in common?

they are all morons

145 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:21:58pm

re: #123 stabby

Religion deprives us of the clear vision we need to understand ourselves and have real empathy for others.

If you had the clear vision one needs to understand one’s self, you would have more understanding of other people too, which could lead to empathy, which could lead to sympathy for religious feeling among those who have it.

Try to develop that clear vision. It is not accomplished by simply rejecting religion. Real empathy is not reflected in wanting to remove people’s faith.

146 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:22:38pm

re: #144 engineer cat

they are all morons morans… ;)

I couldn’t resist.

147 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:23:02pm

re: #129 stabby

I do respect my family.

But beliefs can not be respected. Statements about the world are either true or false. To “respect” the false is to choose to be full of bullshit. Not everyone is capable of that.

How would you even know what anyone’s beliefs are unless you are a mind reader? Everyone’s thoughts and beliefs should be respected.

People should be able to control themselves from acting out harmful beliefs. This is what is called “civilization.”

But you can have any beliefs you wish. There should be no “Thought Police.”

148 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:23:07pm

re: #119 celticdragon

Really fun film. One of the best bad sci films out of the 70’s.

It’s pure escapism. I know the film was actually quite a hit in the UK, but tanked in the US; it does have a more European sensibility than an American one, but it’s still enormous fun. The soundtrack by Queen pushes the whole film into over-the-top territory. I’ve always viewed the film as a British take on an American funny-pages legend.

149 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:23:40pm

re: #134 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Religion is a way that our minds and societies fail.

If religion is natural, so is syphilis.

Youtube Video

150 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:23:49pm

re: #148 Dr Lizardo

It’s pure escapism. I know the film was actually quite a hit in the UK, but tanked in the US; it does have a more European sensibility than an American one, but it’s still enormous fun. The soundtrack by Queen pushes the whole film into over-the-top territory. I’ve always viewed the film as a British take on an American funny-pages legend.

The soundtrack was frakking awesome. I used to have it.

151 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:24:02pm

re: #144 engineer cat

they are all morons

That too.

152 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:24:36pm

re: #149 stabby

Religion is a way that our minds and societies fail.

If religion is natural, so is syphilis.

[Embedded content]

This is just getting out of hand. Go take a walk or something.

153 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:25:19pm

re: #140 The Ghost of a Flea

Everything is better with Brian Blessed. Your mention of him just improved my day. I would pay money to watch him read stuff aloud. Shopping lists, stereo instructions, Tweets.

Brian Blessed is my husband’s hero. His first introduction to Blessed was as Richard IV in Blackadder.

154 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:25:23pm

Bye all. See you tomorrow. :)

155 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:25:35pm

Your Firehose of Rage of the Day:

#ObamaIn3Words

156 celticdragon  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:25:47pm

re: #153 Backwoods_Sleuth

Brian Blessed is my husband’s hero. His first introduction to Blessed was as Richard IV in Blackadder.

My better half looooves her some Blackadder…

157 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:25:49pm

re: #133 Kragar

Just allow me to say…

DIIIIIIIIIVE!

[Embedded content]

I love that scene! Brian Blessed came pretty close to upstaging Max von Sydow. And ‘Hero’ by Queen being played during the scene - an absolute barn-burner of a song.

158 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:26:58pm

re: #156 celticdragon

My better half looooves her some Blackadder…

I’m a huge Blackadder fan. Love me some “I have a cunning plan” Baldrick and his lust for turnips….

159 Jolo5309  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:27:20pm

re: #147 Vicious Babushka

How would you even know what anyone’s beliefs are unless you are a mind reader? Everyone’s thoughts and beliefs should be respected.

People should be able to control themselves from acting out harmful beliefs. This is what is called “civilization.”

But you can have any beliefs you wish. There should be no “Thought Police.”

To comment on the bolded part, bullshit.

I have no need to respect those that consider homeopathy real science, not do I have any need to respect these beliefs: anti-vaxxers, anti-birth control or anti-abortion. These views should be mocked, and mocked endlessly, much like you do with those whose views you consider wrong or dangerous.

Feel free to consider which of these beliefs are tied in with religion, ignorance or just plain stupidty.

160 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:27:55pm

re: #149 stabby

Religion is a way that our minds and societies fail.

If religion is natural, so is syphilis.

[Embedded content]

Syphilis is, of course, natural. However, as I said, the religious impulse is part of human nature.

You have this really, really weird habit of simply ignoring information. What I said was really clear. I’m an atheist, but the reality is that religiosity is part of human nature. It obviously needs an approach to keep it under control and not let it dominate society, and that’s a big, tricky challenge. It’s not helped or aided by freaking out and declaring you’d destroy all the books of faith on earth at once— protip, when your plan involves a big ol’ book burning, your plan sucks.

To achieve a truly secular society will require acknowledging that religion, like any other arbitrary human choice, needs to be accommodated in society as far as it does not infringe on the rights of others. That’s what a secular society is, not the persecution of people who are religious.

There is no stupidity in religion that is not replicated in a non-religious format. “revealed truth” is not limited to religion.

161 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:30:09pm

re: #148 Dr Lizardo

I do wonder if that is the reason why Doctor Who has been in the position of breaking into the US.

To be fair though, I have seen individual episodes 2 American Sci-fi shows. Stargate and Battlestar Galactica. Neither appealed to me after the one time I would stumble onto them by channel flipping.

Doctor Who though appealled to me from the very start, from the first episode I saw (The Two Parter “The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit,” 10th Doctor).

And starting slowly, I got dragged in. Then, it sped up. The second half of Series 7 pulled me in completely. Ending with “The Name of the Doctor.”

Which was more about the name “The Doctor,” rather than the name of The Doctor.

I do like see TNG on BBC America though. But it is no Doctor Who to me.

162 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:32:14pm

re: #160 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

To achieve a truly secular society will require acknowledging that religion, like any other arbitrary human choice, needs to be accommodated in society as far as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

Of course we have to compromise the concept of “rights of others” deeply to even get that far since teaching your children to believe in Satan and hell is extreme psychological abuse.

But we don’t have the ability to stop that, so, of course, we pretend that it isn’t abuse.

163 EdEncho  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:32:34pm

I mean really, that’s the difference. A pack of talentless sycophants gathering around a decent blogger like Charles, it smacks of Marcos Moulitsas Zuniga and his idiots whacking down anyone who dares to have their own minds. They smack their delete keys like they are truncheons as they police “trolls” who are really anyone who isn’t drinking from their particular vat of Kool Aid.

Hell, I tried, I am disgusted with the left, hate the racists and teabaggers and just wanted to try to find a place populated by people who actually bothered to think and weren’t mentally shackled by partisan dogma.

I chose this place because the scum right-wing went after Charles Johnson after he denounced him, my bad.

He should just rename the blog Little ORANGE Footballs.

Anyway, fuck you all, you have ZERO talent outside of Mr. Johnson and you deserve all of the scorn that is heaped upon you by the Nazi douchebags that you used to run with.


Just my two cents

EE

164 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:33:21pm

re: #163 EdEncho

Poor quality trolling.

2/10

Would ban again.

165 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:33:38pm

re: #163 EdEncho

FLOUNCE!
Quiet golf claps….

166 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:34:04pm

But it’s a bit of a relief from this discussion.

:) I should go do something useful

167 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:34:30pm

re: #163 EdEncho

Anymore butthurt to try any troll us with?

DF? Please fire up the Troll Grill, we have a live one here that I’ll bet Stinky will talk to shortly.

168 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:35:04pm

re: #159 Jolo5309

To comment on the bolded part, bullshit.

I have no need to respect those that consider homeopathy real science, not do I have any need to respect these beliefs: anti-vaxxers, anti-birth control or anti-abortion. These views should be mocked, and mocked endlessly, much like you do with those whose views you consider wrong or dangerous.

Feel free to consider which of these beliefs are tied in with religion, ignorance or just plain stupidty.

I reserve mockery for the rude.

‘Wrong’ calls for correction (good information to substitute for the bad), ‘dangerous’ calls for something with more immediate results than mockery will get.

169 Kid A  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:35:12pm

re: #155 Vicious Babushka

Your Firehose of Rage of the Day:

#ObamaIn3Words

The President, Bitch.

How’s that?

170 Romantic Heretic  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:35:19pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

If you had something useful and intelligent to say I, for one, would have been welcoming.

But your entries here do not pass a Turing test. Your silly rant could have been agglomerated by a Google search and random sentences picked out of the results.

171 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:36:15pm

re: #163 EdEncho

Just my two cents

EE

Ya get what you pay for!!

172 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:37:09pm

re: #162 stabby

Of course we have to compromise the concept of “rights of others” deeply to even get that far since teaching your children to believe in Satan and hell is extreme psychological abuse.

But we don’t have the ability to stop that, so, of course, we pretend that it isn’t abuse.

I don’t think it’s ‘extreme’ psychological abuse. I do think that children are one of the biggest problems with any set of ethics. But there’s lots of things you can argue are child abuse in that regard. Teaching kids that life is purely mechanistic and deterministic, for example, which is a very logically defensible position— and hell, may even be true— can cause nihilism; humans want to believe in meaning in their life. Is telling ghost stories also child abuse?

I don’t think you take any of these problems at all seriously.

173 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:38:08pm

re: #163 EdEncho

Youtube Video

174 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:39:18pm

re: #161 ProTARDISLiberal

I do wonder if that is the reason why Doctor Who has been in the position of breaking into the US.

To be fair though, I have seen individual episodes 2 American Sci-fi shows. Stargate and Battlestar Galactica. Neither appealed to me after the one time I would stumble onto them by channel flipping.

Doctor Who though appealled to me from the very start, from the first episode I saw (The Two Parter “The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit,” 10th Doctor).

And starting slowly, I got dragged in. Then, it sped up. The second half of Series 7 pulled me in completely. Ending with “The Name of the Doctor.”

Which was more about the name “The Doctor,” rather than the name of The Doctor.

I do like see TNG on BBC America though. But it is no Doctor Who to me.

Doctor Who has long enjoyed cult status in the US, thanks largely to PBS. Red Dwarf also, though it’s following isn’t quite as large as the Doctor Who fanbase. Back when I still living in the US, I used to watch Doctor Who religiously on KOPB, Portland, Oregon - they also ran on Saturday evenings, from 8 to 10 pm, a block of British comedies such as the Blackadder series, One Foot In The Grave, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, Waiting For God, Keeping Up Appearances and other shows.

Red Dwarf is hugely popular in the Czech Republic, as is the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. Star Trek, not so much - why that is, I really don’t know.

It’s like with the film Watchmen; only a handful of diehard Alan Moore fans here in the Czech Republic ever saw it during its initial release, but it’s gained a dedicated cult following through video.

175 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:40:30pm

re: #163 EdEncho

There are people who read just the front page and not the comments here. You could be one of those.

176 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:42:06pm

re: #163 EdEncho

we don’t appreciate commenters who are too emotionally fragile to take a little criticism

177 PhillyPretzel  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:42:43pm

re: #167 William Barnett-Lewis

I have my Weber on standby.

178 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:43:25pm

re: #172 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I suspect that all of the fanaticism that this blog follows, say Bryan and all the others rests on the psychological results of believing in hell - or at least in a judgmental god who will deny heaven to the heretics.

It’s intuitively obvious that intolerance stems from believing that God himself is wildly intolerant.

If there was no belief in hell, then people wouldn’t be too frightened to think. They wouldn’t be too frightened to care about the supposed sinners etc.

If “sin” still had it’s supposed original meaning of “missing the mark” and hell simply meant the grave and people supposed that God allowed them their own judgements (minds) and their own hearts then there would be no such thing as a wingnut.

179 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:44:10pm

re: #174 Dr Lizardo

Should note that Doctor Who does now get 1-2 million TVs a night for new episodes in the US now. Not including downloads.

Impressive, considering that it is on a channel not carried by a large number of cable and satellite packages.

180 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:44:25pm

re: #178 stabby

There’s plenty of non-religious wingnuts, silly person.

181 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:44:29pm

re: #114 Dr Lizardo

Last night I introduced two friends and former students to Flash Gordon. They were bored and had nothing to do, so when they showed up, I said, “I’ve got a movie for you. It’s got Max von Sydow.” Of course, these two young ladies being fans of oh-so-serious films by Ingmar Bergman knew immediately who I was talking about.

I don’t think, however, they were quite prepared for seeing Max von Sydow devour the scenery with a large side of awesomesauce. Nonetheless, they both actually genuinely enjoyed the film, and they got the humor of it as well without difficulty.

Flash Gordon - the best bad film ever made. It shouldn’t work, but it does. Max von Sydow’s ‘Ming the Merciless’ is one of the all-time great screen villains and the supporting cast was top-notch as well, especially Brian Blessed, Timothy Dalton, Peter Wyngarde and Mariangela Melato, and of course, Ornella Muti as Princess Aura - a great femme fatale.

How you wrote all that without once mentioning the soundtrack by Queen, I will never be able to understand.

Flash! Aaah-ahh… savior of the universe!

The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension is the best bad movie ever made though. It’s been scientifically proven.

182 Kid A  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:45:01pm

Back to the original topic at hand, I see #payup is getting some major play on Twitter for our dear friend “Dim” Jim.

183 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:45:24pm

re: #181 AntonSirius

How you wrote all that without once mentioning the soundtrack by Queen, I will never be able to understand.

Flash! Aaah-ahh… savior of the universe!

The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension is the best bad movie ever made though. It’s been scientifically proven.

Nope. Big Trouble in Little China is. God told me so.

184 Kid A  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:45:51pm
185 JeffFX  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:46:11pm

re: #149 stabby

Religion is a way that our minds and societies fail.

Religion is obviously a failure to think clearly, but it seems to offer an advantage to societies, so you’re half right.

186 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:46:11pm

re: #181 AntonSirius

re: #183 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

2 Words.

Remo.

Williams.

187 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:46:24pm

re: #149 stabby

Religion is a way that our minds and societies fail.

If religion is natural, so is syphilis.

[Embedded content]

I’m pretty areligious myself, but that is just an asshole thing to say. Don’t be an asshole, troll.

188 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:46:45pm

re: #174 Dr Lizardo


Red Dwarf is another of my all time favorites. Love the ship’s cat…

189 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:46:50pm

re: #163 EdEncho

I always find it cute when socks come in here and try to play act at what sort of brain dead assholes they think we are, then proceed to act all hurt and scorned when told to knock that shit off if they expect to stay for any length of time. You’d think that, for all the time they spend watching our every move, they’d have realized that schtick doesn’t work.

190 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:47:20pm

re: #180 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I argue with a lot of non-religious wingnuts. They tend to be odd people who share a tribal kinship with the religious nuts, defend the religious nuts and hate all of the official enemies of the religious nuts.

They’re socially members.. and proof that people’s thinking doesn’t have to be consistent.

191 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:47:51pm

re: #186 Kragar

re: #183 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

2 Words.

Remo.

Williams.

Bah, four words: “I am THE LAW!”

192 sagehen  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:48:05pm

re: #155 Vicious Babushka

Your Firehose of Rage of the Day:

#ObamaIn3Words

Seventy million votes.

193 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:48:33pm

re: #190 stabby

I argue with a lot of non-religious wingnuts. They tend to be odd people who share a tribal kinship with the religious nuts, defend the religious nuts and hate all of the official enemies of the religious nuts.

They’re socially members.. and proof that people’s thinking doesn’t have to be consistent.

So, you just contradicted yourself kind of immediately. You said there wouldn’t be wingnuts without religion, and then acknowledged there’s lots of non-religious wingnuts.

So, is this you changing your opinion, or do you somehow really think without the religious wingnuts the non-religious ones would all be cool?

194 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:48:35pm

re: #129 stabby

Statements about the world are either true or false.

…aaaaaaaaand you lost me.

Any world view that does not allow for for some degree of uncertainty strikes me as very insecure.

195 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:48:44pm

re: #188 Backwoods_Sleuth

Red Dwarf is another of my all time favorites. Love the ship’s cat…

There is one crew man who stands above all the rest…

Youtube Video

196 sagehen  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:48:58pm

Clear Majority. Twice.

197 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:49:12pm

re: #179 ProTARDISLiberal

Should note that Doctor Who does now get 1-2 million TVs a night for new episodes in the US now. Not including downloads.

Impressive, considering that it is on a channel not carried by a large number of cable and satellite packages.

That is quite impressive, in point of fact.

In the market served by KOPB in the 80s and 90s, Doctor Who did quite respectably. It was watched by a good many people, and across a fairly broad demographic - I remember discussing it often with other viewers during my teenage years; not only sci-fi nerds and the occasional Anglophile, but jocks, stoners, preppies, even cheerleaders enjoyed watching it, using the high-school cliques as my anecdotal example.

198 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:49:50pm

re: #185 JeffFX

I think it’s advantage is the usual sort - for breeding.

Religion supplies an alternate ladder for social prestige, something that drives many people.

You can be an idiot, you can have no skills or abilities, you can be a convict… but if you profess the right beliefs you can borrow prestige among a society of believers - something you could never get otherwise.

199 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:50:01pm

re: #191 Targetpractice

Bah, four words: “I am THE LAW!”

We said good bad movie.

200 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:50:11pm

re: #195 Kragar

There is one crew man who stands above all the rest…

[Embedded content]

oh yes…the long-suffering Rimmer!

201 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:51:05pm

re: #200 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh yes…the long-suffering Rimmer!

And Red Dwarf actually had a musical hit.

Youtube Video

202 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:51:09pm

re: #193 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

While I find them puzzling, I think they’re parasites on religious wingnut society. If there were no religious wingnuts, there’d be no one who feels himself to be loyal to them while lacking the core beliefs.

203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:51:15pm

re: #198 stabby

Religion is not the only other sort of alternate advancement in society. There are tons of other cultural mechanisms that work the same way.

Man, people like you act like religion is magical. It’s just another part of society and culture. It doesn’t have some demon heart at the center of it.

204 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:52:13pm

re: #202 stabby

While I find them puzzling, I think they’re parasites on religious wingnut society. If there were no religious wingnuts, there’d be no one who feels himself to be loyal to them while lacking the core beliefs.

This doesn’t make any sense. There are lots of non-religious wingnuts who have non-religious wignutty beliefs, like scientific racism. Ayn Rand is a perfect example of a wingnut, and she’s viciously anti-religious.

Why can’t you deal with this?

205 sagehen  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:53:00pm

re: #174 Dr Lizardo

Doctor Who has long enjoyed cult status in the US, thanks largely to PBS. Red Dwarf also, though it’s following isn’t quite as large as the Doctor Who fanbase. Back when I still living in the US, I used to watch Doctor Who religiously on KOPB, Portland, Oregon - they also ran on Saturday evenings, from 8 to 10 pm, a block of British comedies such as the Blackadder series, One Foot In The Grave, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, Waiting For God, Keeping Up Appearances and other shows.

Red Dwarf is hugely popular in the Czech Republic, as is the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. Star Trek, not so much - why that is, I really don’t know.

It’s like with the film Watchmen; only a handful of diehard Alan Moore fans here in the Czech Republic ever saw it during its initial release, but it’s gained a dedicated cult following through video.

I would have thought Stargate Atlantis would have a big following in the Czech Republic, if only for Radek Zelenka.

206 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:53:12pm

re: #201 Kragar

We don’t discuss Doctor Who’s musical foray.

Those were dark times. One of the things in Doctor Who that could be described as fucked up.

207 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:53:43pm

re: #199 Kragar

We said good bad movie.

Them’s fightin’ words!

208 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:55:03pm

re: #27 EdEncho

Troll.

209 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:55:07pm

re: #183 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Nope. Big Trouble in Little China is. God told me so.

Big Trouble In Little China is not a bad film at all; I rather enjoyed it. It’s sorta dopey, but it’s fun.

Buckaroo Banzai is of course, where my handle comes from. One of my favorite John Lithgow performances.

210 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:55:51pm

re: #209 Dr Lizardo

Big Trouble In Little China is not a bad film at all; I rather enjoyed it. It’s sorta dopey, but it’s fun.

Buckaroo Banzai is of course, where my handle comes from. One of my favorite John Lithgow performances.

Damn John Whorfin and the horse he rode in on!!

//

211 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:55:52pm

re: #204 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Rand’s beliefs don’t have real overlap with religion.

Anyway THIS we can talk about another time. Got to do other things.

212 Romantic Heretic  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:56:37pm

re: #181 AntonSirius

The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension is the best bad movie ever made though. It’s been scientifically proven.

Agreed.

213 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:56:47pm

i developed a fondness for my stepmother is an alien

anything with a title like that has got to be a bad movie

but i like it

214 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:57:07pm
Religion Politics The construct of monetary wealth Socialism Free-market fundamentalism The Boy Scouts Starcraft Multiplayer ranking Any construct with a social interaction component supplies an alternate ladder for social prestige, something that drives many people.

You can be an idiot, you can have no skills or abilities, you can be a convict… but if you profess the right beliefs you can borrow prestige from Richard Dawkins among a society of believers - something you could never get otherwise.

215 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:57:10pm

re: #211 stabby

Rand’s beliefs don’t have real overlap with religion.

Which is my fucking point. Your stupid-ass claim that without religion there’d be no wingnuts is trivially disproved by Ayn Rand.

You are so goddamn bad at making and following arguments, I swear, it’s like you practice at it.

216 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:57:29pm

does the work of ed wood qualify as good bad movies or bad bad movies?

217 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:57:41pm

re: #205 sagehen

I would have thought Stargate Atlantis would have a big following in the Czech Republic, if only for Radek Zelenka.

There’s fans, but not on the scale of BSG or Red Dwarf fans. I do know plenty of Czechs who’ve seen the film Stargate - they all loved Kurt Russell’s line, “Give my regards to King Tut”, but not many followed the TV franchise.

218 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:58:00pm

re: #213 engineer cat

i developed a fondness for my stepmother is an alien

anything with a title like that has got to be a bad movie

but i like it

Earth Girls are Easy is a great bizarre movie, not sure if it’s bad.

Also Search and Destroy, the Christopher Walken one not the Chuck Norris one.

219 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:58:05pm

re: #216 engineer cat

does the work of ed wood qualify as good bad movies or bad bad movies?

“So bad they’re good.”

220 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:58:30pm

re: #216 engineer cat

does the work of ed wood qualify as good bad movies or bad bad movies?

Ed Wood movies are in a class of their own; they’re neither good nor bad.

They’re Ed Wood.

221 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:58:39pm

re: #201 Kragar

And Red Dwarf actually had a musical hit.

[Embedded content]

oh, thanks so much for that, hadn’t seen it before! Ship’s cat and can sing AND dance, hahahahaa!!!
edited to fix typo…

222 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:58:43pm

re: #215 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Which is my fucking point. Your stupid-ass claim that without religion there’d be no wingnuts is trivially disproved by Ayn Rand.

You are so goddamn bad at making and following arguments, I swear, it’s like you practice at it.

The minute you find any complexity you’re back to the insults.

Go away.

223 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:59:05pm

re: #46 EdEncho

Jesus, a guy tries go come to a new community to hang out and it turns out to be no better than Daily Kos. Excuse the fuck out of me.

Not when you post trash. Perhaps you should have lurked a bit more to get the feel of the community.

224 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 3:59:35pm

re: #218 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

When I think of Christopher Walken, I think of this music video.

Youtube Video

225 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:00:04pm

re: #222 stabby

Charles & Stinky are the only ones who can make anyone “go away” here.
You can not.

226 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:01:03pm

re: #215 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

There can be more than one sort of belief called “wingnut”

But unrelated cases have to be treated totally separately.

I disregarded the Objectivists because there aren’t very many of them

Just because her sort of greed is popular among the religious nuts at the moment doesn’t mean that it is popular as a stand alone system.

It isn’t. It never has been.

227 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:01:07pm

re: #183 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Nope. Big Trouble in Little China is. God told me so.

All three are killer bee.

228 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:01:09pm

re: #209 Dr Lizardo

Big Trouble In Little China is not a bad film at all; I rather enjoyed it. It’s sorta dopey, but it’s fun.

Victor Wong (Egg Shen) was awesome.

229 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:01:44pm

re: #222 stabby

The minute you find any complexity you’re back to the insults.

Go away.

It’s not complexity. You said that without religion, there wouldn’t be wingnuts. I objected. You came up with some chaotic jumble of an idea that without the religious ones, the non-religious types wouldn’t anyone to be ‘loyal’ to them. This doesn’t fucking matter, because Ayn Rand style wingnuts don’t have to be ‘loyal’ to anything to be wingnuts. They just are wingnuts, and they’re non-religious.

There’s no complexity. You just said something overbroad and it’s not true. And as usual, instead of defending your argument, you get all meta. Just defend your damn arguments instead of dropping them and walking away, you’re not an MC.

230 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:02:03pm

re: #209 Dr Lizardo

Big Trouble In Little China is not a bad film at all; I rather enjoyed it. It’s sorta dopey, but it’s fun.

Buckaroo Banzai is of course, where my handle comes from. One of my favorite John Lithgow performances.

Character is what you are in the dark.

Laugh while you can, monkey boy!

I could quote your namesake all day.

231 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:02:34pm

re: #227 austin_blue

All three are killer bee.

NOT THE BEES!!!

Youtube Video

232 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:02:58pm

re: #230 AntonSirius

Character is what you are in the dark.

Laugh while you can, monkey boy!

I could quote your namesake all day.

“Curse-a you, Buckaroo Banzai! I’ll-a see you in Hell!!”

233 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:03:29pm

re: #61 Vicious Babushka

I bought a brand new grill today and now it’s totally raining. :(

WHAT! You are letting a little rain prevent you from grilling?

No Grill Master Award for you. :-)

234 Romantic Heretic  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:03:30pm

re: #206 ProTARDISLiberal

Youtube Video

235 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:04:54pm

re: #229 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

There’s no complexity. You just said something overbroad and it’s not true. And as usual, instead of defending your argument, you get all meta. Just defend your damn arguments instead of dropping them and walking away, you’re not an MC.

Dude suffers from Premature Mike Drop/Walk Out Syndrome.

236 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:05:10pm

re: #226 stabby

Can I remind you what you actually said?

If “sin” still had it’s supposed original meaning of “missing the mark” and hell simply meant the grave and people supposed that God allowed them their own judgements (minds) and their own hearts then there would be no such thing as a wingnut.

So now you’re saying that basically what you meant is if there were no religious wingnuts there’d be no religious wingnuts?

237 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:05:21pm

re: #232 Dr Lizardo

“John O’Connor, break the window!”
“Why me, John Bigboote?”
“It might be booby-trapped!”
“Oh. “

238 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:06:37pm

re: #236 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And you accuse me of being dense.

Try again. You’re capable of understanding English if you ever decide that reading is more important than abuse.

239 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:06:47pm

re: #234 Romantic Heretic

[Embedded content]

I see your geekdom and raise you one Adam Savage:

Youtube Video

240 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:06:51pm

re: #234 Romantic Heretic

No, I was talking about this atrocity.

Youtube Video

The context for it. A number of WTF Moments in the history of Doctor Who Development. The story that led up to that song is in the last 3-4 minutes.

blip.tv

241 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:08:00pm

re: #224 ProTARDISLiberal

When I think of Christopher Walken, I think of this music video.

[Embedded content]

Hard to remember, given the downright creepiness of so many of his characters, that Walken is a song-and-dance man at heart.

242 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:08:34pm

re: #224 ProTARDISLiberal

When I think of Christopher Walken, I think of this music video.

[Embedded content]

I think of this:

Youtube Video

243 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:08:50pm

Evening Lizardim from the cool and cloudy wild north country. Memorial Day, like all military-oriented patriotic holidays, is always a bittersweet day in the fish household - my two grandfathers were proud WWII vets whose lives were claimed before their time by emphysema and pancreatic cancer. I never got to know them. I hope yours has been much better, how go things out in lizardland?

244 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:09:13pm

re: #240 ProTARDISLiberal

I apologize for the music on that post. I am so, so sorry.

245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:09:17pm

re: #238 stabby

And you accuse me of being dense.

Try again. You’re capable of understanding English if you ever decide that reading is more important than abuse.

Instead of saying ‘try again’, show how I’m wrong, explain what you actually meant. It is not a defense of what you said to simply say that I got it wrong. When you get what I said wrong, I demonstrate how what you said was wrong— like when you claimed that I had said that the present doesn’t count in analyzing a religion, when in fact I had said you can’t just count the present. So, when you accuse me of misinterpreting you, demonstrate how I’ve done so.

Otherwise, it looks like you’re just blustering.

246 aagcobb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:09:24pm

re: #241 austin_blue

Hard to remember, given the downright creepiness of so many of his characters, that Walken is a song-and-dance man at heart.

I watched Prophecy and Prophecy II, terrible movies, just to watch Walken chew the scenery in every scene he’s in.

247 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:09:27pm

Stupid internet has been flaky all weekend. And yet spellcheck says I am supposed to capitalize it.

248 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:10:40pm

Flea’s Law:

In internet conversation,
Invective about the comprehension level of one’s audience is directly proportional to fuckwittery.

249 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:10:55pm

re: #246 aagcobb

I watched Prophecy and Prophecy II, terrible movies, just to watch Walken chew the scenery in every scene he’s in.

Walken’s a pretty skinny guy for how much scenery he’s chewed.

250 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:10:58pm

re: #232 Dr Lizardo

“Curse-a you, Buckaroo Banzai! I’ll-a see you in Hell!!”

“Get me my overthruster!”

251 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:12:18pm

I just can’t think of Walken without the word “Cowbell” coming to mind.

252 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:12:30pm

All I know is everyone has been this driver at least once in their lives…

Youtube Video

253 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:13:48pm

re: #250 austin_blue

“Get me my overthruster!”

“Your Overthruster’s for shit! We’re lost!”

254 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:13:53pm

re: #245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I don’t care what I look like.

And I can’t break through your act. You would bother to read and understand if that was your goal. You seem to like this better.

Context. You can do it man!

Try hard!

255 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:14:18pm

re: #250 austin_blue

“Get me my overthruster!”

Sometimes the only way to play a villain is over-the-top. Look at Al Pacino in Scarface - arguably, an anti-hero - but his Tony Montana has become a pop-culture icon. The polar opposite of Marlon Brando’s Vito Corlene.

256 aagcobb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:15:44pm

re: #255 Dr Lizardo

Sometimes the only way to play a villain is over-the-top. Look at Al Pacino in Scarface - arguably, an anti-hero - but his Tony Montana has become a pop-culture icon. The polar opposite of Marlon Brando’s Vito Corlene.

Of course, Al Pacino plays every role over-the-top. Hooo-AH!

257 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:15:45pm

re: #255 Dr Lizardo

Sometimes the only way to play a villain is over-the-top. Look at Al Pacino in Scarface - arguably, an anti-hero - but his Tony Montana has become a pop-culture icon. The polar opposite of Marlon Brando’s Vito Corlene.

The role really called for the sort of manic energy that Pacino brought to it. You couldn’t imagine a calmer, more composed actor pulling it off anywhere near as believably.

258 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:15:57pm

re: #252 Kragar

All I know is everyone has been this driver at least once in their lives…

[Embedded content]

Not with a passenger. But with the POS car.

259 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:16:00pm

re: #254 stabby

Again, I’m the one presenting arguments, supporting my position, and asking you to do the same. you’re the one continually dodging the argument to make these bizarre metaarguments that I’m somehow fundamentally dishonest.

Again, show it. If I’m misunderstanding, misreading, demonstrate that. I don’t get how you cannot get that you cannot possibly convince anyone of anything if you continually shirk away from argument and hide behind this sort of pity-party.

260 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:16:34pm

re: #255 Dr Lizardo

Sometimes the only way to play a villain is over-the-top. Look at Al Pacino in Scarface - arguably, an anti-hero - but his Tony Montana has become a pop-culture icon. The polar opposite of Marlon Brando’s Vito Corlene.

David Bowie in Labyrinth is one of my favorite villains.

261 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:16:54pm

re: #240 ProTARDISLiberal

No, I was talking about this atrocity.

[Embedded content]

The context for it. A number of WTF Moments in the history of Doctor Who Development. The story that led up to that song is in the last 3-4 minutes.

blip.tv

Oh God. I’d blotted that out of my head. It’s no Doctoring the Tardis, that’s for damn sure.

Of course it’s also not Sarah Brightman’s magnum opus eitherr:

Youtube Video

262 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:19:37pm

re: #163 EdEncho

You’re an insufferable dick that stinks up this joint. GTFO.

263 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:19:37pm

re: #259 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

My answer at #178 was clear. I can’t improve on that.

And you haven’t disproven it, you just found that there does exist a small number of “wingnuts” it doesn’t address - as my other comment pointed out. So what? There’s still not a damn thing wrong with my observation at #178. You haven’t shown that there is.

You just love claiming victory though. I certainly don’t pity myself for arguing with a man who can’t follow an argument and is always sure that he’s victorious.

Except that I should be spending my time on something more useful than your ego masturbation.

264 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:20:06pm

re: #246 aagcobb

I watched Prophecy and Prophecy II, terrible movies, just to watch Walken chew the scenery in every scene he’s in.

The first Prophecy is awesome. Walken as a creepy birdlike killer angel, Aragorn as a strangely Charles Manson-esque Satan, Amanda Plummer as the not-quite-dead girl, and Eric Stoltz as, well, Eric Stoltz, which is who he always plays, Virginia Madson, Elias Koteas… what’s not to love?

265 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:20:32pm

re: #243 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim from the cool and cloudy wild north country. Memorial Day, like all military-oriented patriotic holidays, is always a bittersweet day in the fish household - my two grandfathers were proud WWII vets whose lives were claimed before their time by emphysema and pancreatic cancer. I never got to know them. I hope yours has been much better, how go things out in lizardland?

Well, a Troll has apparently flounced. Obdi and Stabby are having a thread-long shootout and several of us are trying to tone it down by noting our favorite bad movies.

Hey, folks, what about Robocop?

266 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:20:40pm

re: #260 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

David Bowie in Labyrinth is one of my favorite villains.

ANYTHING Vincent Price!

267 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:20:53pm

re: #260 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

David Bowie in Labyrinth is one of my favorite villains.

Gary Oldman as Zorg

Youtube Video

268 aagcobb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:21:20pm

re: #265 austin_blue

Well, a Troll has apparently flounced. Obdi and Stabby are having a thread-long shootout and several of us are trying to tone it down by noting our favorite bad movies.

Hey, folks, what about Robocop?

Does not qualify, as its an AWESOME movie.

269 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:22:19pm

re: #255 Dr Lizardo

Sometimes the only way to play a villain is over-the-top. Look at Al Pacino in Scarface - arguably, an anti-hero - but his Tony Montana has become a pop-culture icon. The polar opposite of Marlon Brando’s Vito Corlene.

Actually, the polar opposite of Tony Montana is Michael Corleone. Which says something about how incredible Pacino was back before he got old and lazy (i.e. pre-Scent of a Woman).

270 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:22:24pm

re: #257 Targetpractice

The role really called for the sort of manic energy that Pacino brought to it. You couldn’t imagine a calmer, more composed actor pulling it off anywhere near as believably.

I agree: I can’t imagine anyone else in that role. Pacino played it to the hilt, and it worked.

271 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:22:29pm

What’s more pathetic than repeatedly telling somebody to go away on an internet forum?

272 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:22:49pm

re: #263 stabby

My answer at #178 was clear. I can’t improve on that.

This is what I mean. Your ‘answer’ at 178 is what I’m criticizing. You are unable to mount a defense of your contention that religion is at the heart of all wingnuttery. All you can do is point to your original argument. It is so freaking weird that you can’t do that.

And for fuck’s sake stop whining all the time about how you should do something else other than reply to me. I really don’t give a shit if you do or not, I’m perfectly happy to just put up takedowns of your arguments and never have you respond since you never, ever actually respond in a meaningful manner to defend or explain your argument anyway. You might as well not respond to me, you never say anything that gets your argument anywhere.

273 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:23:04pm

re: #271 BigPapa

What’s more pathetic than repeatedly telling somebody to go away on an internet forum?

Thinking that they WILL go away!

274 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:23:06pm

re: #271 BigPapa

What’s more pathetic than repeatedly telling somebody to go away on an internet forum?

Telling people you’re leaving, and then you don’t.

275 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:23:06pm

re: #271 BigPapa

That would be “stalking someone on an internet forum so that you can abuse him.”

276 efuseakay  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:23:22pm

re: #123 stabby

re: #104 wrenchwench

Religion is a delusion forced on children. It is the abuse of the maximal threat and of the empty promises that prevent people from learning to think. It is the pronouncements whose moral certitude combined with stupid rationalization and inflexibility take the place of empathy and thought.

Religion deprives us of the clear vision we need to understand ourselves and have real empathy for others.

Humanity would be much better off without it.

You flunked out of Sunday School, didn’t you.

277 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:23:35pm

re: #275 stabby

That would be “stalking someone on an internet forum so that you can abuse him.”

Mom, the nasty man asked me to defend my premises! And then he showed me his axioms!

278 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:24:10pm

re: #261 AntonSirius

I was introduced to the song by the video beneath it in the post.

The WTF were you thinking incidents sumamrized in that video.

-The Shada Strike
-The Fox-BBC Fiasco.
-The Kamelion Curse
-The Burning Times
-Michael Grade-Douchebag Extraordinaire, and the reason that song exists.

279 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:24:22pm

Troll.

280 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:24:31pm

re: #275 stabby

That would be “stalking someone on an internet forum so that you can abuse him.”

No, it would be continually posting your stupid and expecting a different response.

281 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:25:08pm

re: #265 austin_blue

Hey, folks, what about Robocop?

In no way, shape or form is Robocop a bad movie. It’s satire of the most vicious degree.

282 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:25:20pm

re: #279 stabby

Yes, we know you are.

283 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:25:33pm

re: #272 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This is what I mean. Your ‘answer’ at 178 is what I’m criticizing. You are unable to mount a defense of your contention that religion is at the heart of all wingnuttery. All you can do is point to your original argument. It is so freaking weird that you can’t do that.

And for fuck’s sake stop whining all the time about how you should do something else other than reply to me. I really don’t give a shit if you do or not, I’m perfectly happy to just put up takedowns of your arguments and never have you respond since you never, ever actually respond in a meaningful manner to defend or explain your argument anyway. You might as well not respond to me, you never say anything that gets your argument anywhere.

Stabby, he *does* have a point.

284 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:25:39pm

re: #269 AntonSirius

Actually, the polar opposite of Tony Montana is Michael Corleone. Which says something about how incredible Pacino was back before he got old and lazy (i.e. pre-Scent of a Woman).

That’s a good point. My ex-wife had never seen either The Godfather or Godfather II until I showed them to her - she was complaining that us Americans don’t know how to make good films - and she commented that Pacino’s Michael Corleone was nothing less than the incarnation of pure evil. She was stunned by his performance.

285 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:27:30pm

re: #163 EdEncho

And with that, I must bid you adieu.

286 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:27:47pm

re: #281 AntonSirius

In no way, shape or form is Robocop a bad movie. It’s satire of the most vicious degree.

It was iconic of its era, like a lot of the great 80s scifi was. See also The Terminator, Aliens, and Bladerunner.

287 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:28:41pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

Did something happen?

And with that, I must bid you adieu.

Wow. What in the hell was his problem.

288 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:28:44pm

re: #281 AntonSirius

In no way, shape or form is Robocop a bad movie. It’s satire of the most vicious degree.

Robocop is one of the best films of the 1980s, and I’m somewhat livid that it’s being remade.

You remake bad films. Robocop simply doesn’t fall into that category.

289 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:28:49pm

re: #278 ProTARDISLiberal

I was introduced to the song by the video beneath it in the post.

The WTF were you thinking incidents sumamrized in that video.

-The Shada Strike
-The Fox-BBC Fiasco.
-The Kamelion Curse
-The Burning Times
-Michael Grade-Douchebag Extraordinaire, and the reason that song exists.

Oh, I know. Tom Baker was my Doctor growing up and I’ve been watching ever since, so I’m well aware of the Dark Times.

290 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:29:00pm

re: #275 stabby

That would be “stalking someone on an internet forum so that you can abuse him.”

Victimhood, noted.

This is for you.

291 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:29:27pm

re: #288 Dr Lizardo

Robocop is one of the best films of the 1980s, and I’m somewhat livid that it’s being remade.

You remake bad films. Robocop simply doesn’t fall into that category.

I’m willing to give it a shot. I’ll probably hate myself for saying that when it finally comes out, but there it is.

292 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:29:27pm

re: #281 AntonSirius

In no way, shape or form is Robocop a bad movie. It’s satire of the most vicious degree.

I never thought BB was bad, really. Manic and damned funny.

Now, Escape From New York was BAD.

293 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:30:00pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

Goodness…just wow…

294 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:30:04pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

And with that, I must bid you adieu.

Well, I for one bid a doo doo.

295 AntonSirius  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:30:55pm

re: #292 austin_blue

I never thought BB was bad, really. Manic and damned funny.

Now, Escape From New York was BAD.

Escape From New York only seems bad until you’ve seen Escape From LA. Then you realize what a masterpiece the first one really is.

296 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:30:55pm

re: #285 Charles Johnson

his comment was harsh…I’m confused a bit by his thought process but I guess that is part of the problem.

297 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:06pm

Karma: -34

EdEncho
This user is blocked.

Registered since: May 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm
No. of comments posted: 14
No. of Pages posted: 0

Troll is now gone.

Youtube Video

298 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:09pm

re: #295 AntonSirius

AMEN!!!

299 aagcobb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:22pm

re: #288 Dr Lizardo

Robocop is one of the best films of the 1980s, and I’m somewhat livid that it’s being remade.

You remake bad films. Robocop simply doesn’t fall into that category.

One of my favorite bad movies, Red Dawn, was just remade as a bad bad movie.

300 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:33pm

re: #291 Targetpractice

I’m willing to give it a shot. I’ll probably hate myself for saying that when it finally comes out, but there it is.

I admit, I’ll probably see it, or at least wait for the DVD. It’s just hard to imagine anyone than Peter Weller as Alex Murphy/Robocop.

On the other hand, the remake will have Gary Oldman in it…..and he’s a damned good actor; one of my favorites.

301 JeffFX  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:37pm

re: #292 austin_blue

I never thought BB was bad, really. Manic and damned funny.

Now, Escape From New York was BAD.

Heresy!

302 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:37pm

re: #295 AntonSirius

Escape From New York only seems bad until you’ve seen Escape From LA. Then you realize what a masterpiece the first one really is.

I put both in “So Bad They’re Good” territory.

303 abolitionist  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:44pm

re: #219 Targetpractice

“So bad they’re good.”

Can’t recall the title, but there was a B&W B-minus late-nite film decades ago, in which the line Come on, let’s go. was repeated in the script over thirty times. (I counted.)

Another, for which I don’t recall the title, was an over-the-top serial disaster movie. There was a cruise ship that sank. [Maybe that was a rescue ship, following an aeroplane engine failure at sea. Missed the beginning.] Then the lifeboats were attacked by sharks. The survivors made their way to an uncharted island, only to find it inhabited by cannibals. They got away from the cannibals, put out to sea again, and found a nearby island that seemed to have a radio tower of some sort. But it wasn’t a radio tower. On closer inspection it was seen to be a nuclear test site, and deserted, but the countdown was in progress. [End]

304 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:31:52pm

re: #291 Targetpractice

Total Recall?? (DUCKS)

305 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:32:32pm

re: #301 JeffFX

It was not!

306 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:33:26pm

re: #304 DisturbedEma

Total Recall?? (DUCKS)

I know this might earn me a dirty look or two, but I actually sort of liked the “remake.” And I use the quotation marks because really both were just adaptations of the same material. Yeah, I’ll always consider Ahnold version the best, but the new one wasn’t too bad.

307 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:33:53pm

re: #302 Targetpractice

I do that for the first version of the movies, but the remakes are strictly held to good vs. bad ratings…if you’re going to remake something, you’d better bring your A game

308 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:34:01pm

Image: Stop%20Making%20Stupid%20Posts.gif

309 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:34:03pm

re: #163 EdEncho

Yawn. Not even in the Bottom 10 of Suckiest Flounce Ever.

310 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:34:25pm

re: #306 Targetpractice

I did too- that was why I ducked;)

311 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:34:33pm

re: #287 thedopefishlives

Wow. What in the hell was his problem.

No one would join him in insulting a POW on Memorial Day.

312 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:36:25pm

re: #169 Kid A

The President, Bitch.

How’s that?

313 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:36:56pm

re: #299 aagcobb

One of my favorite bad movies, Red Dawn, was just remade as a bad bad movie.

Quite aside from fueling the masturbatory fantasies of the wingnut set, the original Red Dawn is something of a minor Cold War-era classic. It’s ridiculous, laughable, and served as fodder for a stanza in a Dead Kennedy’s song, but it’s not bad as an action flick. I remember going with my dad to see Invasion, USA - the one with Chuck Norris; he was laughing pretty much all the way through it. He had the exact same reaction to Red Dawn.

314 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:37:37pm

I’m waiting to see the Evil Dead remake on DVD before I pass judgment, but I’ve heard good things about it.

315 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:38:16pm

re: #312 Vicious Babushka

No fair!! Contractions are two words!11! I’m not paying!

—Dim Jim

316 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:39:34pm

re: #306 Targetpractice

I’m kind of an odd duck with the whole science fiction vs. action movies and TV- for example, I heart old Night Stalker show and X- Files which are very different in terms of style and umm well, eras maybe?

I love Blade Runner and both Total Recall movies, but not so much The 6th Day…meh. Admit that I wish the 2 runs of the Star Trek movies could do some sort of Wonder Twin power and take the best of each and make a kick ass series…

317 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:40:12pm

re: #309 Vicious Babushka

Yawn. Not even in the Bottom 10 of Suckiest Flounce Ever.

I don’t think anyone will ever beat ANNEFRANCE for that dubious honor.

318 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:40:19pm

re: #313 Dr Lizardo

My 27 year old son was SHOCKED that Josh, from Drake and Josh, shot a gun and not just any gun, a big one :)

319 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:42:38pm

re: #317 Bubblehead II

and yet, in the ensuing years…well, just saying I may have been one of her 482 down dingers but how the years have changed my thoughts on that election…

320 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:42:41pm

i don’t think robocop or escape from new york are bad movies

excuse me while i say harrumph a few times

321 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:44:07pm

re: #320 engineer cat

Plissken, if you get back in that glider and fly back here without the tape or the President, I’ll shoot you down myself!

322 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:44:35pm

re: #313 Dr Lizardo

I showed my 14 year old the original rather than take him to the new version- he was SO confused about the USSR and what it used to represent, trying to tell him about my teen years in the 1980s was about as easy as trying to explain why MTV was no longer a music channel.

323 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:45:22pm

re: #315 Decatur Deb

hmmm not bad, hope he cites you if he uses it to wiggle more…

324 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:45:43pm

I promise my flounce will be memorable. It will be in the form of a 200-page illuminated manuscript with graphic in-line drawings and a full set of endnote notations about the exact uncommon sexual acts I expect the board to participate in. Large portions will be in iambic pentameter, and there may or may not be a ballet interlude.

325 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:46:18pm

re: #318 DisturbedEma

My 27 year old son was SHOCKED that Josh, from Drake and Josh, shot a gun and not just any gun, a big one :)

Heh. The one John Milius film I genuinely enjoyed, and do consider that film the Gold Standard of its genre, was Conan The Barbarian. Arnold was Conan come to life; good film, good cast (James Earl Jones!), good script, and one of the most epic scores in cinematic history.

326 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:47:26pm

re: #312 Vicious Babushka

He won, twice.

327 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:47:46pm

re: #297 Bubblehead II

Karma: -34

EdEncho
This user is blocked.

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Only -34? So lame.

328 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:47:49pm

re: #322 DisturbedEma

I showed my 14 year old the original rather than take him to the new version- he was SO confused about the USSR and what it used to represent, trying to tell him about my teen years in the 1980s was about as easy as trying to explain why MTV was no longer a music channel.

MTV hasn’t been a music channel for quite some time now. Yet again, the Dead Kennedy’s had it right in their song, ‘MTV Get Off The Air.”

Jello Biafra - modern prophet.

329 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:49:14pm

re: #325 Dr Lizardo

I also kind of liked Beastmaster with Marc Singer…ya I know…but I did!

330 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:49:57pm

re: #324 The Ghost of a Flea

Drum Solo??

331 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:50:30pm

re: #324 The Ghost of a Flea

I promise my flounce will be memorable. It will be in the form of a 200-page illuminated manuscript with graphic in-line drawings and a full set of endnote notations about the exact uncommon sexual acts I expect the board to participate in. Large portions will be in iambic pentameter, and there may or may not be a ballet interlude.

Put it over the palimpsest of an 11th Cent. incunabula or STFU.

332 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:51:26pm

re: #313 Dr Lizardo

Quite aside from fueling the masturbatory fantasies of the wingnut set, the original Red Dawn is something of a minor Cold War-era classic. It’s ridiculous, laughable, and served as fodder for a stanza in a Dead Kennedy’s song, but it’s not bad as an action flick. I remember going with my dad to see Invasion, USA - the one with Chuck Norris; he was laughing pretty much all the way through it. He had the exact same reaction to Red Dawn.

5 Reasons ‘Red Dawn’ Is Secretly a Subversive Anti-War Film

Ah, Red Dawn. It’s easy to make fun of a movie about a high school football team led by Patrick Swayze single-handedly defeating the Soviet army. And we have done just that in the past. But what looks ridiculous in 2010 looked like prophecy to millions of teenagers in 1984.

Kids who grew up in the Reagan era did monthly “duck and cover” nuclear war drills in the classroom. A movie about them and their classmates fighting the Russians wasn’t science fiction — it’s what they fully expected to be doing in a few years. And Red Dawn embodied Reagan’s “we’ll kill the commies with our awesomeness” spirit better than any movie except maybe Rocky IV (which is why National Review ranked it among the best conservative films).

That is, as long as you don’t think about it too hard. If you dig into the details of this action epic you find a pretty damning indictment of Reagan, the U.S. military and even America itself. In fact, it might be the most anti-American movie made outside of the Middle East.

333 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:52:26pm

re: #329 DisturbedEma

I also kind of liked Beastmaster with Marc Singer…ya I know…but I did!

Beastmaster was OK…..it was one of several films rushed into production after Conan the Barbarian came out and proved successful.

Ah, another film from the 80s; Spacehunter: Adventures In The Forbidden Zone. That’s the movie where I fell in love with Molly Ringwald.

334 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:52:45pm

re: #332 Kragar

Awesome

335 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:52:48pm

re: #317 Bubblehead II

I don’t think anyone will ever beat ANNEFRANCE for that dubious honor.

How this Board has changed, eh? 482 down dings for a rather cogent and well-written opinion.

336 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:52:50pm

there isn’t enough half-decent pop music to keep a music station on the air anymore

337 HoosierHoops  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:53:27pm

re: #324 The Ghost of a Flea

I promise my flounce will be memorable. It will be in the form of a 200-page illuminated manuscript with graphic in-line drawings and a full set of endnote notations about the exact uncommon sexual acts I expect the board to participate in. Large portions will be in iambic pentameter, and there may or may not be a ballet interlude.

There’s an App for that..

338 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:53:46pm

Dogwalkers don’t get Memorial Day off. BBL

339 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:54:50pm

re: #324 The Ghost of a Flea

I promise my flounce will be memorable. It will be in the form of a 200-page illuminated manuscript with graphic in-line drawings and a full set of endnote notations about the exact uncommon sexual acts I expect the board to participate in. Large portions will be in iambic pentameter, and there may or may not be a ballet interlude.

My flounce will take the form of a epic ballad, sung by a skald in Old English, requiring 3 days and several barrels of mead to tell in its entirety.

340 aagcobb  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:55:05pm

re: #313 Dr Lizardo

Quite aside from fueling the masturbatory fantasies of the wingnut set, the original Red Dawn is something of a minor Cold War-era classic. It’s ridiculous, laughable, and served as fodder for a stanza in a Dead Kennedy’s song, but it’s not bad as an action flick. I remember going with my dad to see Invasion, USA - the one with Chuck Norris; he was laughing pretty much all the way through it. He had the exact same reaction to Red Dawn.

Here is the little secret the wingnuts don’t get. Red Dawn works as an allegorical anti-war movie about Vietnam.

Damn Kragar beat me to it.

341 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:55:30pm

re: #333 Dr Lizardo

I’ve always been a mythology nut (good thing I grew up or my children would have names like Athena and Antigone) and I loved the elements of Beastmaster that make me think Clash of the Titans (the 80s version) I admit I loved the remake of that movie more one of the few times the remake blew the original out of the water…could have been the fact that I’m not a huge Harry Hamlin fan…not sure

342 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:57:44pm

re: #335 austin_blue

How this Board has changed, eh? 482 down dings for a rather cogent and well-written opinion.

She deserved all those downdings for this:

who thought it wise to bring a fifth child into the world who has Down’s Syndrome. There are four other children already born who need the time, attention and resources of their two parents, and you are not going to tell me they will not suffer with the arrival of a fifth sibling who is going to take away considerable attention and time from them, considering that DS is a condition that afflicts much more than just the intellect.

343 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:58:15pm

re: #332 Kragar

LOL! I love the writers at Cracked - quite often, they point out things that escape attention. I like to check them out once a week or so; helps me get an outside-the-box perspective. It’s good mental exercise.

344 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:58:38pm

re: #335 austin_blue

Yep- I said the same thing…but at the time, well, I have changed since them just saying- I still think her rant about Palin’s son was out of line- I have 2 special needs kids and her tacit rebuke for Palin’s choice to not abort rankles to this day…not sure why, maybe because when I say I’m ProChoice that means even if you choose to have a baby that has disabilities, that is part of the choice

345 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:58:52pm

re: #330 DisturbedEma

Drum Solo??

Maybe I could squeeze one in between the eunuch chorus and the other eunuch chorus.

346 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:59:25pm

Here is the reason that arguing with Obdicut is futile.

No matter how clear an argument is, he simply acts as if obvious implications don’t work.

Lewis Carroll pointed out that there’s no defense against someone refusing to accept a step in an argument and applying infinite regress to that refusal. Douglas Hofstadter’s book has some entertaining dialogs that illustrate Lewis Carroll’s point more clearly than Lewis Carroll did.

I can see that rhetorical fallacy instantly whenever I’m attempting to argue with Obdicut, and I can also see that arguing is futile because he instantly pulls along the same path as the Tortoise does in Lewis Carroll and Douglas Hofstadter’s dialogs.

347 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 4:59:52pm

re: #342 Vicious Babushka

I recall down-dinging her for the eugenic sentiments.

348 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:00:01pm

re: #345 The Ghost of a Flea

Too much? Bass solo maybe, for the time crunch issues…:)

349 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:00:06pm

re: #335 austin_blue

How this Board has changed, eh? 482 down dings for a rather cogent and well-written opinion.

Even if you agree with her sentiment about Palin, there’s a bunch of anti-choice crap in there, not to mention use of the epithet ‘trailer trash’.

350 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:00:49pm

i suppose i’d have to write my flounce as a recursive routine in emacs lisp

351 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:00:51pm

re: #345 The Ghost of a Flea

Maybe I could squeeze one in between the eunuch chorus and the other eunuch chorus.

My Skald will be accompanied by a Viking metal band.

Youtube Video

352 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:01:37pm

re: #346 stabby

Stabby, you state a premise, I state a criticism to your premise, and that, to you, somehow is some infinite regression.

You claimed all wingnuts stemmed from religious belief. I pointed out this was silly, supported this by a citation with a well-known non-religious wingnut. You haven’t been able to respond to this criticism except incoherently.

It’s hardly infinite regression when you simply refuse to address the criticism.

353 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:01:46pm

re: #347 jaunte

I may have because I had 2 special needs kids…not sure if that was it or not, I admit that my support for Palin didn’t last long…too long in hindsight, but there it is.

354 CuriousLurker  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:02:55pm

re: #346 stabby

Here is the reason that arguing with Obdicut is futile.

No matter how clear an argument is, he simply acts as if obvious implications don’t work.

Lewis Carroll pointed out that there’s no defense against someone refusing to accept a step in an argument and applying infinite regress to that refusal. Douglas Hofstadter’s book has some entertaining dialogs that illustrate Lewis Carroll’s point more clearly than Lewis Carroll did.

I can see that rhetorical fallacy instantly whenever I’m attempting to argue with Obdicut, and I can also see that arguing is futile because he instantly pulls along the same path as the Tortoise does in Lewis Carroll and Douglas Hofstadter’s dialogs.

See, Obdi??
Stop stalking stabby!!!
//

355 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:03:22pm

re: #348 DisturbedEma

Too much? Bass solo maybe, for the time crunch issues…:)

Depending on how the Kickstarter campaign and Genius Grant application go, my flounce may or may not be expanding into seven-day multimedia installation in Bayreuth.

356 Dr Lizardo  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:03:23pm

re: #341 DisturbedEma

I’ve always been a mythology nut (good thing I grew up or my children would have names like Athena and Antigone) and I loved the elements of Beastmaster that make me think Clash of the Titans (the 80s version) I admit I loved the remake of that movie more one of the few times the remake blew the original out of the water…could have been the fact that I’m not a huge Harry Hamlin fan…not sure

The remake of Clash Of The Titans was very good, and I also enjoyed it more than the original; but like you, I’m not a Harry Hamlin fan, and Laurence Olivier? Um, no. The only performance of his I liked was in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

He was dead.

357 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:05:07pm

re: #342 Vicious Babushka

She deserved all those downdings for this:

I agree that was too much, but the rest of it, in hindsight, nailed Palin pretty well.

358 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:05:42pm

re: #346 stabby

Here is the reason that arguing with Obdicut is futile.

I notice you don’t link to anything Obdicut said. Or mention anything Obdicut said. Or specify any particular point on which you disagree.

359 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:07:06pm

re: #349 wrenchwench

which is what kind of drew me to Palin in the first place- I still think about the fact that if I was ever in the position to hold public office, my public education, teen mom status and the fact that Katie Couric would remark about the fact that I didn’t have my passport until I was over 30 would speak about me in a class condescending kind of way- it was a reminder that no matter when I got my doctorate, it would still be from a second tier university and well, combined with the rest of my history, not good. One thing though- and you can laugh at me if you will, but if a bunch of men fresh from some focus group told me I had to wear certain clothes in order to present the right image? Nope- her decision to cave in to the “trailer trash has to dress better” meme bothered me, granted not as much as her effed up politics, but it was a sign she really wasn’t sold on her roots- so why should I be…I’m going to post this, but something tells me I’m still pissed about that election- not the outcome but my worldview at the time…

360 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:07:13pm

re: #319 DisturbedEma

and yet, in the ensuing years…well, just saying I may have been one of her 482 down dingers but how the years have changed my thoughts on that election…

Sarah made her choice, and I will “presume” She thought it through, But annefrance post was a complete refutation of what we here at LGF (I am now assuming) . Viable life is worth saving.

361 JeffFX  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:08:22pm

re: #352 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Stabby, you state a premise, I state a criticism to your premise, and that, to you, somehow is some infinite regression.

You claimed all wingnuts stemmed from religious belief. I pointed out this was silly, supported this by a citation with a well-known non-religious wingnut. You haven’t been able to respond to this criticism except incoherently.

It’s hardly infinite regression when you simply refuse to address the criticism.

I think Stabby’s somewhat right in that religion keeps the wingnut movement together, since it has served as a common belief to keep tribes together for all of history, and is a big part of the wingnut tribe.

Of course it’s also the wingnut’s greatest weakness in that it repels thinking people. If their message was simple selfishness it would attract more sane greedy people than it does.

It seems obvious that Obdi sees a lot more nuance in life than Stabby does.

362 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:09:25pm

re: #360 Bubblehead II

And there was probably plenty at the time to criticize Palin for, without bringing her kids into it.

363 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:10:04pm

re: #360 Bubblehead II

Choice is worth saving is what I believe- and while I chose to have my son at 17, I’m not willing to say everyone has to make the choice I did…I’m at my core Pro Choice- even if I wouldn’t make the same one.

364 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:11:01pm

re: #362 jaunte

Did Andrew Sullivan EVER stop saying that Trig was Bristol’s son? Wasn’t he rabid in his belief that Palin never had a kid during the Trig timeframe?

365 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:12:03pm

re: #364 DisturbedEma

I’m not sure; I stopped paying much attention to him because he got a little peculiar on the topic.

366 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:12:23pm

re: #360 Bubblehead II

Sarah made her choice, and I will “presume” She thought it through, But annefrance post was a complete refutation of what we here at LGF (I am now assuming) . Viable life is worth saving.

I would no more force a woman to give birth to a baby with Down Syndrome than I would encourage her to abort it only for that reason.

367 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:13:07pm

re: #352 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I responded, correctly, that your criticism doesn’t really apply to many people. Rand is only popular now because she’s popular with people who are ALSO religious wingnuts.

Sure, my description of what makes a wingnut doesn’t apply to the small number of wingnuts who aren’t religious. As I already pointed out, you have not made a criticism that deflates the notion that my description applies to many or even most wingnuts.

Show that, and you’ve actually made an argument. But you haven’t shown that. You’ve just ignored the fact that your supposed criticism doesn’t touch my actual argument.

You’re not interested in my actual argument, you just like getting dings from people who are offended that I say religion is harmful.

Heh, you don’t have an argument at all, you just enjoy the ego boost of getting applause while faking it.

Are you intending to go into politics? Because this looks a lot like politics.

368 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:14:41pm

re: #365 jaunte

I just remember reading some of his posts about the days leading up to her delivery- just plain odd.

369 allegro  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:14:50pm

re: #362 jaunte

And there was probably plenty at the time to criticize Palin for, without bringing her kids into it.

If only she had done the same thing. I was quite discomforted over her use of her kids, Trig especially, as props. Watching that poor unresponsive little guy being handed down the line for everyone to get their photo ops was cringe inducing.

370 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:15:58pm

re: #366 wrenchwench

And therein lies my definition of Pro Choice- you said it beautifully

371 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:16:25pm

re: #362 jaunte

And there was probably plenty at the time to criticize Palin for, without bringing her kids into it.

Palin was pretty forceful in throwing her kiddos into the mix to establish her “Momma Grizzly” street cred. Remember the R convention that year?

I found it very disturbing she did that to her own children.

372 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:16:54pm

re: #357 austin_blue

I agree that was too much, but the rest of it, in hindsight, nailed Palin pretty well.

That was also before Charles put an expiration date on comment dings, that comment stayed active for months and people just piled on.

She would not receive the same number of dings if that comment was posted today, but talking about destroying people with Down Syndrome is just fucked up. (BTW my granddaughter has Down’s)

373 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:18:25pm

re: #369 allegro

ok here’s where I have to go all Autism Mom- I am the mother of special needs sons- and if I were out there on a mission to get elected, as a woman it is a no win situation. If I don’t have ALL of my children with me, well then I’m ASHAMED of my less than perfect sons, if I include them, well, then I’m guilty of a sympathy vote poaching…no win situation and that kind of includes kids without special needs- if you bring your kids to a campaign stop it’s a ploy, if you leave them at home, you’re a neglectful mom…

374 sagehen  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:18:34pm

re: #364 DisturbedEma

Did Andrew Sullivan EVER stop saying that Trig was Bristol’s son? Wasn’t he rabid in his belief that Palin never had a kid during the Trig timeframe?

Once it became clear she’d never run for anything again, he decided it didn’t matter anymore that she was lying about Trig’s parentage and he wasn’t going to discuss it further.

375 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:19:10pm

re: #371 austin_blue

I think “Grifter” will stick long after people forget the “Momma Grizzly” nickname.

376 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:20:18pm

re: #374 sagehen

That was most disturbing and odd- I remember posts here about it back then

377 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:21:03pm

re: #373 DisturbedEma

as a dad too- this is kind of a gender free for all

378 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:26:22pm

re: #367 stabby

I responded, correctly, that your criticism doesn’t really apply to many people. Rand is only popular now because she’s popular with people who are ALSO religious wingnuts.

There really are a sizeable number of non-religious minarchists.

Sure, my description of what makes a wingnut doesn’t apply to the small number of wingnuts who aren’t religious. As I already pointed out, you have not made a criticism that deflates the notion that my description applies to many or even most wingnuts.

That wasn’t your claim, though. your claim was that without religion, or at least without a religion that involved an afterlife, there’d be no wingnuts. Now, to me, since I don’t grant religion special powers, I think that the existence of non-religious wingnuts shows this isn’t true.

Show that, and you’ve actually made an argument. But you haven’t shown that. You’ve just ignored the fact that your supposed criticism doesn’t touch my actual argument.

Your actual argument, again:

I suspect that all of the fanaticism that this blog follows, say Bryan and all the others rests on the psychological results of believing in hell - or at least in a judgmental god who will deny heaven to the heretics.

It’s intuitively obvious that intolerance stems from believing that God himself is wildly intolerant.

If there was no belief in hell, then people wouldn’t be too frightened to think. They wouldn’t be too frightened to care about the supposed sinners etc.

If “sin” still had it’s supposed original meaning of “missing the mark” and hell simply meant the grave and people supposed that God allowed them their own judgements (minds) and their own hearts then there would be no such thing as a wingnut.

That’s what I’m criticizing, this magical idea that religion is the source of these evils. Religion is often a codification of this, but the idea that people who believe in hell are too frightened to care about the supposed sinners is just whackadoodle and ignores the large number of liberal Catholics. The idea that ‘all’ of the fanaticism this blog follows stems from a belief in hell is dangerous— a lot of the fanaticism is about very worldly things, like the idea that those who are poor are poor solely because of decisions they’ve made.

Heh, you don’t have an argument at all, you just enjoy the ego boost of getting applause while faking it.

Are you intending to go into politics? Because this looks a lot like politics.

Any time you do this stupid meta-argument, all I’m going to do is note that yet again, you’re doing the weird meta-argument.

379 aagcobb  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:31:28pm

re: #356 Dr Lizardo

The remake of Clash Of The Titans was very good, and I also enjoyed it more than the original; but like you, I’m not a Harry Hamlin fan, and Laurence Olivier? Um, no. The only performance of his I liked was in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

He was dead.

I thought Olivier was good in Marathon Man. “Is it safe?”

380 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:31:44pm

re: #378 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

That wasn’t your claim, though. your claim was that without religion, there’d be no wingnuts. Now, to me, since I don’t grant religion special powers, I think that the existence of non-religious wingnuts shows this isn’t true.

The difference between “all” and “most” isn’t important when talking about populations.

This is what I mean about pretending not to understand. You’re playing pedantic and using flourishes as if they’re important. “All” vs. “most” is a straw man. After all, the actual CONTEXT was the previous post where I said that belief in Satan and hell is abusive.

What I was actually doing was expanding on that and showing that this kind of abuse harms minds so much that it turns people into wingnuts and even harms society.

That’s the actual context that you haven’t been willing to follow and deal with probably because you find your silly dings so satisfying.

381 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:36:55pm

re: #378 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

but the idea that people who believe in hell are too frightened to care about the supposed sinners is just whackadoodle and ignores the large number of liberal Catholics.

There was an author on Fresh Air who had polled religious people.

Most religious Americans no longer believe the harshest parts of the dogma. They DON’T believe that members of other religions will go to hell. They don’t believe that gays will go to hell.

I would bet that Liberal Catholics mostly DON’T believe in hell. That’s how they turned out liberal.

Only half of evangelical Christians believe that sort of dogma by the way.

382 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:37:43pm

re: #11 Backwoods_Sleuth

sooooo…is John McCain secretly meddling in foreign policy?

Sen. McCain makes trip to Syria to meet with rebels

No, McCain simply has the courage of his convictions. He is also a firm believer in the idea that leaders ought not to lead from behind.

383 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:40:25pm

re: #380 stabby

The difference between “all” and “most” isn’t important when talking about populations.

Yes, it is. It is really, really important. Thinking otherwise is just crazy. I mean, come on, are you just trying to look foolish by saying things like this?

What I was actually doing was expanding on that and showing that this kind of abuse harms minds so much that it turns people into wingnuts and even harms society.

I engaged with this already by talking about the other, non-religious things you could likewise classify as ‘abuse’ that way.

You seem to be working on the false premise that I’ve said that raising a kid believing that if they sin they’ll go to hell is just fine. I don’t believe that. I think teaching that to a kid is bad. It was taught to me, and it definitely fucked me up in some ways.

I don’t agree with your specious, bizarre connection between belief in hell and wingnuts, especially since Catholics, who very much believe in hell, tend to be more liberal than many Protestant denominations.

As usual, you’ve half-assed a theory with no actual real structure or rationale and now you’re pissy about having it pointed out that the recent ex rectum facsimile of an argument is full of holes.

384 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:45:22pm

re: #383 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I engaged with this already by talking about the other, non-religious things you could likewise classify as ‘abuse’ that way.

In what way does enumerating unrelated things that you classified as “abuse” argue that belief in an intolerant God, Satan and hell can not make people fearful (of, for instance, thoughts or empathy that could lead to damnation) and can not make people intolerant?

You, perhaps, answered that there are non-abusive things that have some similarity, but you have not even succeeded in implying that belief in an intolerant God who tortures does not in turn make people intolerant.

385 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:46:23pm

Had to fix a typo, reload.

386 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:50:26pm

re: #384 stabby

In what way does enumerating unrelated things that you classified as “abuse” argue that belief in an intolerant God, Satan and hell can not make people fearful (of, for instance, thoughts or empathy that could lead to damnation) and makes people intolerant?

It doesn’t, since that’s not my claim. I completely think that for some people, being taught about a god that hates gay people is going to make them more likely to hate gay people. I have no idea why you keep presenting what I’m not saying as my claim.

You, perhaps, answered that there are non-abusive things that have some similarity, but you have not even succeeded in implying that belief in an intolerant God who tortures does not in turn make people intolerant.

There are lots of variations of hell that don’t involve torture, which you, of course, know. And I don’t accept the premise that an intolerant god— and I’m really not getting how hell implies intolerance, anyway— causes intolerant people. A god who commands intolerance does. But anti-gay shit wasn’t sourced in religion; religion was/is just one of the ways that anti-gay shit is expressed.

Again, you seem to assign a magical value to religion, where it becomes powerful beyond other aspects of culture. Why is this?

387 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:56:28pm

re: #386 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Again, you seem to assign a magical value to religion, where it becomes powerful beyond other aspects of culture. Why is this?

It’s simple. People are afraid to reason whenever reason strays from dogma, because straying can lead to damnation. Therefor people train themselves to be unable to think, instead they rationalize backwards from dogma.

People are afraid of their own imagination, because they can imagine Satan - so he might really be haunting them. The child of a friend of mine had that problem.

People are afraid of their own desire because that’s a sin, all the more so if they’re gay. They lack empathy for others over this. And the mind becomes unbalance when it can’t accept its own desires. And this leads back to the fear of imagination.

Religion has these deep effects because fear of hell and promise of spiritual reward infantilize the mind, structures the mind in unnatural, dysfunctional ways.

People do not naturally have good introspection, so teaching people an inaccurate model of themselves does very permanent damage, because then they can not understand themselves or others.

388 efuseakay  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:57:40pm

re: #288 Dr Lizardo

Robocop is one of the best films of the 1980s, and I’m somewhat livid that it’s being remade.

You remake bad films. Robocop simply doesn’t fall into that category.

Neither does Wrath of Khan… ;)

389 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:59:47pm

re: #386 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

For what it’s worth, I have never understood Hell to imply intolerance of differences. To me, Hell exists because there are some who do serious wrongs and do not repent of those wrongs. Salvation only makes sense if the truly wicked are barred from it. But the fact that Uday Hussein in my opinion ended up in Hell does not make God intolerant, except of those things that a just deity cannot tolerate.

390 abolitionist  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:59:53pm

re: #380 stabby

The difference between “all” and “most” isn’t important when talking about populations. [snip]

Premise: Mushrooms are edible.
On the face of it, that assertion is arguably true —especially if one considers any distinction between “all” and “most” to be unimportant.

391 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:01:49pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

For what it’s worth, I have never understood Hell to imply intolerance of differences. To me, Hell exists because there are some who do serious wrongs and do not repent of those wrongs. Salvation only makes sense if the truly wicked are barred from it. But the fact that Uday Hussein in my opinion ended up in Hell does not make God intolerant, except of those things that a just deity cannot tolerate.

There is no justice in infinite suffering for a finite life of sin.

If you think about it long enough, no one not even Hitler deserves to be punished FOREVER for what they did in life.

(Not that he should be let into heaven obviously he/his soul should simply stop existing)

392 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:02:07pm

re: #390 abolitionist

The implied “all” was just a flourish, as I said my point in context was that harsh beliefs have consequences.

Why are you taking it out of context? There’s already too much trolling in this supposed argument.

393 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:03:00pm

re: #378 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Obdi rocks. That is all.

394 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:03:26pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

Serious abominations like wearing wool and linen togther?

395 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:03:41pm

re: #387 stabby

It’s simple. People are afraid to reason whenever reason strays from dogma, because straying can lead to damnation. Therefor people train themselves to be unable to think, instead they rationalize backwards from dogma.

Kind of like, say, coming up with the theory that belief in hell causes intolerance, and then rationalizing backwards that all liberal Catholics must not really believe in hell?

People are afraid of their own desire because that’s a sin, all the more so if they’re gay. They lack empathy for others over this. And the mind becomes unbalance when it can’t accept its own desires. And this leads back to the fear of imagination.

How does being afraid of your own desire lead to lack of empathy? This is just a bunch of arbitrary psychobabble to me.

What really is bizarre is that you’re acting as though this acts in the same way on everyone. This gets back to this repeated belief you appear to have that humans are pretty much programmed machines, simply responding to environment.

Religion has these deep effects because fear of hell and promise of spiritual reward infantilize the mind, structures the mind in unnatural, dysfunctional ways.

What do you mean by ‘structure the mind’? It seems really important to you. And why do you keep insisting religion is unnatural? Where do you think it came from? Aliens?

People do not naturally have good introspection, so teaching people an inaccurate model of themselves does very permanent damage, because then they can not understand themselves or others.

At least say it’s more difficult or something, instead of just ‘cannot’. I know you operate in a permanent state of hyperbole, but it’s really tiresome to have to continually point out that you’re being stupidly broad again.

Yes, teaching people that they’re damned if they sin is bad. This is a true thing. I have never argued against this, and I don’t get why you feel the need to keep pretending I have.

396 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:06:51pm

re: #391 jamesfirecat

I don’t really agree, but the point is moot since neither of us know what Hell really is and I hope neither of us ever finds out.

397 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:09:45pm

re: #396 Dark_Falcon

I don’t really agree, but the point is moot since neither of us know what Hell really is and I hope neither of us ever finds out.

Its ot an issue of if he’ll exists or not, it’s just an issue of justice and how long can we justify punishing someone for a crime they have comitted. In a billion years Hitler will be nothing but a historical foot not note, an important one, but can you stil justify making someone suffering at that point… And if so, a billion years after that?

398 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:09:59pm

Belief in Hell, certain:
Republicans: 69%
Democrats: 43%
Independents: 40%

399 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:10:16pm

re: #398 stabby

Belief in Hell, certain:
Republicans: 69%
Democrats: 43%
Independents: 40%

Good jorb disproving your theory champ.

400 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:10:54pm

:) well there’s still a correlation.

401 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:11:11pm

re: #397 jamesfirecat

The only definitions of hell that would be ethically admit-able would be ones that defined hell as separation from god, and where reform and progress in the afterlife was possible. So really more a purgatory.

402 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:11:52pm

re: #400 stabby

:) well there’s still a correlation.

And correlation is not causation.

403 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:12:44pm

re: #402 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And correlation is not causation.

Boom! Classic takedown there by Obdi.

404 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:13:43pm

Also sample size was awfully small :/

405 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:15:08pm

583 Democrats polled. 613 Republicans. 337 Independents.

406 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:16:29pm

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

Really? It doesn’t disprove causation either.

407 abolitionist  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:19:28pm

re: #404 stabby

Also sample size was awfully small :/

I was taking your use of “population” in the way a statistician would, and thot that you might have meant “people” instead, and that I might be taking your words out of context. Not so much now.

408 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:19:29pm

As for Catholics, the church is no longer pushing eternal hell with torture, so the word doesn’t actually have the same meaning for them and my description of what makes a wingnut really mostly applies to Protestants.

409 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:20:37pm

re: #407 abolitionist

That number of people could be statistically significant if they were chosen well.

It’s hard (and expensive) to do good polling though.

410 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:20:46pm

re: #408 stabby

As for Catholics, the church is no longer pushing eternal hell with torture

Really? Have you let the Catholic church know about this?

411 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:21:19pm

re: #408 stabby

I do not understand why you think Hell has to have torture to have meaning. Your argument seems to be shifting as you lose positions to Obdi.

412 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:21:49pm

re: #410 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

the Catholic hell is now defined as “separation from God” not as “boiling oil”

413 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:22:51pm

re: #411 Dark_Falcon

because fear of torture is more likely to stop thought dead than fear of some vague spiritual description

414 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:24:03pm

re: #412 stabby

the Catholic hell is now defined as “separation from God” not as “boiling oil”

Can you please support this position?

scborromeo.org

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Do you see a difference between ‘chief punishment’ and the idea of it being the only punishment?

415 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:25:02pm

re: #411 Dark_Falcon

Also Catholics have an out, confession.

They don’t have to be fearful, because they can always confess and be forgiven.

This also plays out in how Catholic countries party a lot harder than Protestant ones.

416 Mentis Fugit  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:25:13pm

re: #230 AntonSirius

Character is what you are in the dark.

Laugh while you can, monkey boy!

I could quote your namesake all day.

I was amused to learn, on looking it up, that “character is what you are in the dark” is attributed to a 19th Century American Evangelist, Dwight L. Moody.

417 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:26:31pm

re: #412 stabby

the Catholic hell is now defined as “separation from God” not as “boiling oil”

And as a subset of the problems with this: the Catholic church still is very much intolerant towards gays. So how are you reconciling your belief that they’re not really pushing the hell stuff with the intolerance of their anti-gay position?

This is the second time you’ve delivered a really serious blow to your own argument.

418 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:28:33pm

re: #415 stabby

Also Catholics have an out, confession.

They don’t have to be fearful, because they can always confess and be forgiven.

This also plays out in how Catholic countries party a lot harder than Protestant ones.

Really? Poland parties harder than Iceland? Spain parties harder than Denmark?

You are like an unending fountain of inanity.

419 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:29:24pm

re: #413 stabby

because fear of torture is more likely to stop thought dead than fear of some vague spiritual description

Catholicism isn’t about suppression of thought. While it is at times concerned with acting against theological error, it is not an anti-thought religion.

re: #415 stabby

Confession only works if you repent. Christianity as a faith understands that all people sin; Redemption comes by a sinner understanding why what he/she did is wrong and sincerely repenting of the sin. Repentance normally requires a person to take action to right the wrong they committed as best as they can.

420 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:31:35pm

re: #418 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Really? Poland parties harder than Iceland? Spain parties harder than Denmark?

You are like an unending fountain of inanity.

Nobody parties harder than Israel.

421 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:33:20pm

re: #417 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And as a subset of the problems with this: the Catholic church still is very much intolerant towards gays. So how are you reconciling your belief that they’re not really pushing the hell stuff with the intolerance of their anti-gay position?

This is the second time you’ve delivered a really serious blow to your own argument.

I already pointed out the polster who says that lay people don’t believe their own dogma. But that doesn’t mean that the dogma has changed, or that the priests can change it or that the church has changed.

What the lay people believe and what the church believes are totally separate things.

422 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:33:48pm

re: #420 Vicious Babushka

Nobody parties harder than Israel.

It’s a rough competition, and depends what you look for in a party. Icelanders are good at the week-long binge. Other places tend to specialize in the nuclear party bomb. Costa Rica is a great place to party, but it doesn’t really get intense there, like it does in Rio. It’s a more tranquilo place, a chilled out party.

Now I want to do a reality TV show about party culture across the world.

423 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:37:07pm

re: #419 Dark_Falcon

Catholicism isn’t about suppression of thought. While it is at times concerned with acting against theological error, it is not an anti-thought religion.

Well there’s a difference between what a church teaches and what effect its dogma has on people.

If you believe that errant beliefs will send a soul to hell, then its perfectly logical to suppress speech so that your own children won’t be exposed to those beliefs or because you don’t want others to go to hell,.

Now Jesus may even have ordered you to avoid that sort of behavior but the total belief system logically encourages that behavior DESPITE the commands.

424 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:37:54pm

re: #421 stabby

I already pointed out the polster who says that lay people don’t believe their own dogma. But that doesn’t mean that the dogma has changed, or that the priests can change it or that the church has changed.

What the lay people believe and what the church believes are totally separate things.

But your claim was that the church has stopped pushing the hell thing. So you’re talking about the church, not about the lay people. Did you just fuck up in trying to address that point?

Anyway, here’s a pretty simple graph that shows your theory is crap:

Image: 20040525_2.gif

During that same time period, support for gay rights rose, as belief in hell also rose. So, reverse correlation, which does disprove causation unless you can come up with some other forcer.

425 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:40:17pm

re: #423 stabby

So people will ignore church doctrine because they are afraid of violating church doctrine? That makes very little sense.

426 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:40:42pm

re: #424 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Well the polster on fresh air didn’t ask if people believe in hell, he asked if people think that gays and lesbians go to hell.

Few Americans believe they do, even religious ones.

He asked if people believe that members of other religions go to hell. Once again few people do. It was interesting that he said that when he told that to a bunch of Lutheran ministers, their faces fell. They might be considered somewhat liberal, but they wanted their flock to believe the harshest parts of their theology.

427 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:42:20pm

re: #426 stabby

Well the polster on fresh air didn’t ask if people believe in hell, he asked if people think that gays and lesbians go to hell.

Few Americans believe they do, even religious ones.

He asked if people believe that members of other religions go to hell. Once again few people do. It was interesting that he said that when he told that to a bunch of Lutheran ministers, their faces fell. They might be considered somewhat liberal, but they wanted their flock to believe the harshest parts of their theology.

That’s nice, Stabby. To remind you of your actual claim, it was that belief in hell caused intolerance.

I’ve showed you something where belief in hell rose, and tolerance rose at the same time.

Can you explain this, which seems to simply directly contradict your theory?

428 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:43:59pm

re: #425 Dark_Falcon

I would say that the religion is not structured in an effective way if some of its beliefs naturally make people want to disobey some of its commands.

I used to blame Jesus for structuring his religion badly, but I’m not sure it makes sense to do that:
1) he might not have believed in hell in the modern sense anyway
2) he was just some ancient rabbi who probably was a bit nuts and thought he talked to God. We can just be grateful that he wasn’t totally foolish and a bad example.

429 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:46:32pm

re: #428 stabby

Calling Jesus ‘nuts’ gets you a downding from me.

430 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:47:35pm

re: #427 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Well if people no longer believe that unbelievers go to hell, then they’re no longer believing in an intolerant God.

Eternal punishment is terrifying, but if you don’t think that God is likely to impose that, then you have more room.

Look, my argument was about the belief that you will be punished for doubting doctrine and those two polls show that fewer and fewer people believe that you can go to hell for disbelieving their religion or for disobeying its commands.

431 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:49:53pm

re: #430 stabby


Well if people no longer believe that unbelievers go to hell, then they’re no longer believing in an intolerant God.

Eternal punishment is terrifying, but if you don’t think that God is likely to impose that, then you have more room.

So you’re trying to say that these people believe in hell, but that almost nobody gets sent there? What do you base this belief of yours on?

Look, my argument was about the belief that you will be punished for doubting doctrine and those two polls show that fewer and fewer people believe that you can go to hell for disbelieving their religion or for disobeying its commands.

Your claim is now that it’s not belief in hell, it’s… how many people will be sent to hell? Is that your new argument?

432 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:58:57pm

re: #431 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

You might want to reread #178

I described how fear of disbelief restructures the mind.

If few people think that members of other religions go to hell (I don’t remember if he included atheists), then it’s implied that few people think that disbelieving their doctrine dangerous and fearful.

However consider the mechanism he stated. He said that Americans can not believe that God will damn members of other religions because most people have a close friend or even family members who don’t share their religion. They don’t believe gays are damned because most people are related to a gay person or have a gay friend…

This implies that this tolerance may be learned over time. People MAY believe their religion when they’re young then come to doubt it through experience. So the belief may touch them, even if it doesn’t hold them forever.

433 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:02:20pm

re: #432 stabby

You might want to reread #178

I described how fear of disbelief restructures the mind.

This is the thing, Stabby. You’re just some guy. These are theories you have, and you treat them as though they’re established fact. These are tenuous, often contradictory theories.

If few people think that members of other religions go to hell (I don’t remember if he included atheists), then it’s implied that few people think that disbelieving their doctrine dangerous and fearful.

But what are you basing this belief on? Who is ‘he’? What is this poll?

However consider the mechanism he stated. He said that Americans can not believe that God will damn members of other religions because most people have a close friend or even family members who don’t share their religion. They don’t believe gays are damned because most people are related to a gay person or have a gay friend…

Congrats, again, on disproving the supposed link between religion and/or belief in hell and intolerance and showing that belief in hell is not correlated with being a wingnut?

Can you not recognize that you’re dismantling your own argument?

434 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:05:11pm

re: #433 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Can you not recognize that you’re dismantling your own argument?

I’m not sure you know what an argument is.

435 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:08:41pm

Anyway the level of belief in these harsh dogmas is still fairly high among evengelicals, about 50%

436 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:09:04pm

re: #434 stabby

‘m nt sr y knw wht n rgmnt s.

The hater says what?

437 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:09:20pm

re: #434 stabby

I’m not sure you know what an argument is.

Yeah, yeah. Even this is just a subsidiary way that you’re wrong; your final contention was still:

If “sin” still had it’s supposed original meaning of “missing the mark” and hell simply meant the grave and people supposed that God allowed them their own judgements (minds) and their own hearts then there would be no such thing as a wingnut.

Which is trivially disproved by Ayn Rand. You stated it in those terms— no such thing as a wingnut.

438 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:12:08pm

re: #437 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Which is trivially disproved by Ayn Rand. You stated it in those terms— no such thing as a wingnut.

Yeah well I said that the implied “all” was just flourish. Got anything else?

439 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:14:37pm

My actual contention, that the belief in a harsh intolerant God, can, through obvious mechanisms, restrict the mind and create harsh conservatism isn’t even contentious among normal people.

I wonder why you’re wasting our time pretending that it is.

440 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:15:00pm

Oh I know, ego.

441 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:15:38pm

Note: typo, reload.

442 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:18:36pm

re: #440 stabby

GAZE

443 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:23:06pm

re: #438 stabby

Yeah well I said that the implied “all” was just flourish. Got anything else?

Yeah, that that’s not in any way an adequate defense.

My actual contention, that the belief in a harsh intolerant God, can, through obvious mechanisms, restrict the mind and create harsh conservatism isn’t even contentious among normal people.

And it’s not contentious, except for the babble of ‘restrict the mind’. That it ‘can’ do it isn’t. If you’d actually make that argument in the beginning, i wouldn’t have taken issue with it.

But you didn’t. You made a shitty, stupid argument even you admit was flawed. So why whine when I call you out on it?

444 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:32:05pm

re: #443 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

But you didn’t. You made a shitty, stupid argument even you admit was flawed. So why whine when I call you out on it?

It sure took long enough to cut through your stupid insults down to almost admitting what my argument was.

So after a thread of posting endless vacuous misinterpretations and even more vacuous insults do you feel good about yourself now?

445 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:33:30pm

re: #444 stabby

It sure took long enough to cut through your stupid insults down to almost admitting what my argument was.

That wasn’t what your argument was! Your argument was nothing like that. Your argument was a hyperbolic rant that bore no resemblance to that.

446 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:33:31pm

I hope it was all worth it for you, how you spent your memorial day.

447 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:34:53pm

re: #445 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

That wasn’t what your argument was! Your argument was nothing like that. Your argument was a hyperbolic rant that bore no resemblance to that.

Yes it was, you just don’t like my style and you enjoy your insults too much to actually understand what you read.

448 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:35:14pm

re: #444 stabby

Youtube Video

449 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, May 28, 2013 4:10:51am

Been doing teacher work all day. Did stabby ever answer Obdicut’s questions in #42?

My vote for a bad bad movie is Heaven’s Gate, both the original 4-hour opus and the cut-to-ribbons shorter version, which made even less sense than the original.

450 ContraryLemming  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:28:36pm

re: #422 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It’s a rough competition, and depends what you look for in a party. Icelanders are good at the week-long binge. Other places tend to specialize in the nuclear party bomb. Costa Rica is a great place to party, but it doesn’t really get intense there, like it does in Rio. It’s a more tranquilo place, a chilled out party.

Now I want to do a reality TV show about party culture across the world.

Did that back in the early 90s, for a show called “Mysteries of the Night” - was on Canal5 in Italy, back when that was owned by Berlusconi before he went “Full Borgia” on the Italian political power structures. It was also the first time I came into contact with alleged supermodel Janice Dickinson; she was the hostess of the sequences we shot in & around L.A.

After a couple of weeks, it really wasn’t as much fun as you’d think. Also: hearing loss.


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