NPR Interviews Keith Jarrett: ‘I Want the Imperfections to Remain’

The hardest part was convincing the bass player
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Daniela Yohannes / ECM

MP3 Audio

Testing out some changes in our automatic NPR audio feature, with a fascinating All Things Considered interview with Keith Jarrett about the new Trio album soon to be released, Somewhere (Live in Lucerne / 2009). The album almost didn’t come out, because the band had a miserable experience on-stage that night.

Jarrett says the hardest part was convincing [Gary] Peacock that the recording was good. You wouldn’t know it listening to Somewhere, but “he was in hell that night, as far as the sound was concerned.

“Players are very protective of their turf,” Jarrett says. “Over and over in the past, I’ve had the experience of knowing we just played the best version; we will not need to do another take. If it’s a band, it’s a band. If what we do when we’re playing together is good enough, even the solos don’t matter that much. What matters is the spirit kept.”

More: Keith Jarrett: ‘I Want the Imperfections to Remain’ : NPR

The ECM website has a full track from the recording you can stream online: Home - Keith Jarrett / Gary Peacock / Jack DeJohnette | Somewhere | ECM 2200 - ECM Records.

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426 comments
1 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:12:54pm

Sorry if this is controversial but my 23 year old son and I are still giddy for Geddy and company aka Rush and the 2013 HOF induction…

2 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:13:18pm

you said bass player- my mind went to Geddy:)

3 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:22:49pm

Nigh Lizards.

re: #335 austin_blue

How this Board has changed, eh? 482 down dings for a rather cogent and well-written opinion.

There were several others both before and after that took her down,

Hell, at the time, she made Mandy seem mild.

Wild and wooly were days back then,

Kinda surprised I am still here here.

Nuff said. Iron Fist Rile

4 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:24:29pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

There was one lady- Red Neck Mama?? She was from Wisconsin as well and I believe she was eventually banned…I remember some of her posts very well

5 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:25:56pm

re: #4 DisturbedEma

There was one lady- Red Neck Mama?? She was from Wisconsin as well and I believe she was eventually banned…I remember some of her posts very well

Mama Winger, whose nic would have a different, though still accurate, meaning today.

6 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:26:20pm

re: #2 DisturbedEma

you said bass player- my mind went to Geddy:)

Which made me think of Orgasmo.

7 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:32:26pm

The Alec Baldwin Capital One commercials must die.

8 Bubblehead II  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:35:26pm

re: #4 DisturbedEma

There was one lady- Red Neck Mama?? She was from Wisconsin as well and I believe she was eventually banned…I remember some of her posts very well

The Nic doesn’t ring a bell. Try a LGF search for her nic by date.

Other than that, ask Charles.

9 darthstar  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:37:47pm

Hey everyone…spent some time by the fire hanging out with a monkey today…what did you do?

Image: 431044_10151638232128024_927855530_n.jpg

10 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:39:27pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

11 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:41:20pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

All that negative karma must be weighing on your conscience.///

12 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:43:03pm

re: #11 thedopefishlives

If you click the rating number, it’s a picture of a battle in progress.

13 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:43:24pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

A lesser blogger might have thrown in the keyboard at that point.

14 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:43:42pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

I tried that, and accidentally canceled my previous upding.

15 thedopefishlives  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:44:01pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

If you click the rating number, it’s a picture of a battle in progress.

Yeah, I was going to say, I imagine that’s a pretty comprehensive list.

16 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:46:20pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

No, no one has come close to ‘annefrance’ for downdings in one posts. Others have left with higher negative karma, though. But that post of hers was offensive to people of all political persuasions, which meant it got hammered.

17 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:47:35pm

The term “blood simple,” by the way, originated in this section of Dashiell Hammett’s novel “Red Harvest:”

“What have you been doing?” she demanded as we carried our drinks into the dining room. “You look ghastly.”

I put my glass on the table, sat down facing it, and complained:

“This damned burg’s getting me. If I don’t get away soon I’ll be going blood simple like the natives. There’s been what? A dozen and a half murders since I’ve been here. Donald Willsson; Ike Bush; the four wops and the dick at Cedar Hill; Jerry; Lew Yard; Dutch Jake, Blackie Whalen and Put Collings at the Silver Arrow; Big Nick, the copper I potted; the blond kid Whisper dropped here; Yakima Shorty, old Elihu’s prowler; and now Noonan. That’s sixteen of them in less than a week, and more coming up.”

She frowned at me and said sharply:

“Don’t look like that.”

I laughed and went on:

“I’ve arranged a killing or two in my time, when they were necessary. But this is the first time I’ve ever got the fever. It’s this damned burg. You can’t go straight here. I got myself tangled at the beginning. When old Elihu ran out on me there was nothing I could do but try to set the boys against each other. I had to swing the job the best way I could. How could I help it if the best way was bound to lead to a lot of killing? The job couldn’t be handled any other way without Elihu’s backing.”

18 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:51:58pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

Wow

Lots of names there on BOTH sides of the dinger that haven’t been seen/ heard of in years!

19 AlexRogan  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:53:00pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

The term “blood simple,” by the way, originated in this section of Dashiell Hammett’s novel “Red Harvest:”

Love that book…had to read it for a lit course in college and I still have it.

20 wrenchwench  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:53:28pm

re: #18 sattv4u2

Wow

Lots of names there on BOTH sides of the dinger that haven’t been seen/ heard of in years!

This is why we can have nice things.

Later, lizards.

21 darthstar  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:54:14pm

I’m sure Fox & Friends will be right on this story first thing tomorrow.

22 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:55:11pm

I said “Country first” when Obama was elected, and got 180 down-dings.

Clearly the right wing was not in any mood for that kind of crap.

23 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:55:35pm

re: #20 wrenchwench

This is why we can have nice things.

Later, lizards.

Not all flounced
Not all got banned
Some are missed, some not

24 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 5:59:49pm

re: #21 darthstar

“Since this was a night of great crisis for our country, the only logical reason that the White House won’t explain where the president was is if this man was high as a kite on illegal narcotics at the time.”

Yup, that’s just how logic works alright.

25 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:01:02pm

Flounced, The Documentary

or maybe somebody can work up a page about the History of Trolls and Flouncing on LGF

anybody remember LLL?

26 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:02:57pm

re: #21 darthstar

I’m sure Fox & Friends will be right on this story first thing tomorrow.

If Mr. Yglesias has any necklace or small metal container he carries with him, I’d suggest checking it for blow. Because that remark by him smacks of projection.

27 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:04:29pm

re: #25 engineer cat

Flounced, The Documentary

or maybe somebody can work up a page about the History of Trolls and Flouncing on LGF

anybody remember LLL?

Loony
Liberal
Leftist

AKA L3

28 jamesfirecat  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:04:45pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

Unlike comments posts can still be up or down dinged, we can drive those posts into green territory yet lizards, Upding ho!

29 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:05:38pm

re: #24 jaunte

Yup, that’s just how logic works alright.

what ever happened to the traditional Dead Girl Or Live Boy?

30 darthstar  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:05:54pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

If Mr. Yglesias has any necklace or small metal container he carries with him, I’d suggest checking it for blow. Because that remark by him smacks of projection.

He’s just quoting an article in the Examiner, a conservative rag of a paper.

31 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:05:55pm

re: #28 jamesfirecat

Upding ho!

Who you callin’ a Ho, Beeyotch!?!?
/

32 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:06:18pm

re: #29 engineer cat

I think the live boy is still in the story.

33 darthstar  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:07:00pm

And the left is giving this story all the serious attention it deserves…

34 darthstar  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:07:34pm
35 darthstar  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:08:44pm
36 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:08:49pm
“DuJan closed his article with this question: “Do you think it’s better for the White House to say the president’s location is “irrelevant” or for them to admit “the president was high on cocaine and/or having gay sex in his private quarters”?”

It’s the only Examiner-logical choice.

37 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:10:13pm

re: #30 darthstar

He’s just quoting an article in the Examiner, a conservative rag of a paper.

Their ‘story’ is pure speculative, unsourced crap. It’s the stuff of a supermarket tabloid.

38 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:11:27pm

re: #35 darthstar

Goddamn wingnuts, now they made me retweet Lena Dunham. Why must they spew hate like that?

39 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:11:51pm

re: #33 darthstar

And the left is giving this story all the serious attention it deserves…

40 makeitstop  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:15:28pm

re: #21 darthstar

I’m sure Fox & Friends will be right on this story first thing tomorrow.

Yeah, I think we can call the bottom of that barrel scraped.

41 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:15:30pm

re: #35 darthstar

Malkin sicked her dogs on Lena earlier.

42 PhillyPretzel  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:16:20pm

Test message. If this goes through I found my wireless key.

43 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:16:45pm

re: #42 PhillyPretzel

Test message. If this goes through I found my wireless key.

Didn’t work
Try again!!
/

44 PhillyPretzel  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:17:23pm

re: #43 sattv4u2

lol

45 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:22:40pm

re: #35 darthstar

46 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:23:40pm

re: #33 darthstar

It comes from Hillbuzz. That’s all you need to know.

47 PhillyPretzel  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:25:06pm

I was going through some old boxes and I found a little 4 page set of instructions of how to set up the wi-fi. I am glad I found those instructions. Now I do not have to call Verizon and get them from someone who barely speaks English.

48 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:25:26pm

Dana is like all NA NA NA I HAZ MOAR HATE MAILS!!11

49 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:32:08pm

re: #45 Vicious Babushka

50 sattv4u2  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:33:15pm

And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

51 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:41:46pm

Anyone else think it’s very likely McCain’s trip into Syria happened with the approval of the Obama administration?

52 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:45:03pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Anyone else think it’s very likely McCain’s trip into Syria happened with the approval of the Obama administration?

I think it did, but I would not be surprised if he called the White House for permission after he was already well on his way.

53 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:45:23pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Anyone else think it’s very likely McCain’s trip into Syria happened with the approval of the Obama administration?

I’d say probably. McCain and Obama might not like each other much, but I don’t think McCain would try to undermine the president in that fashion, and I do think Obama would trust McCain’s judgement about if the people he met with are on the level or not.

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:45:39pm

‘Cuz I don’t see how it could have happened without some pretty high-level support.

55 Vicious Babushka  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:46:57pm

Pammy, don’t make us want to like him.

56 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:47:23pm

re: #3 Bubblehead II

Nigh Lizards.

There were several others both before and after that took her down,

Hell, at the time, she made Mandy seem mild.

Wild and wooly were days back then,

Kinda surprised I am still here here.

Nuff said. Iron Fist Rile

It was wild and wooly, wasn’t it? There were some people from that time that I miss, but most? Nah.

57 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:51:09pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Anyone else think it’s very likely McCain’s trip into Syria happened with the approval of the Obama administration?

I hope so, can’t imagine it wasn’t.

Unless McCain just went crazy.

58 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:52:23pm

re: #5 wrenchwench

funny I remembered it as Red Neck…hmmmm

59 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:53:13pm

Keep getting that feeling that we’re really going to regret supporting the rebels in Syria in about a year or so. We don’t exactly have a stellar record of supporting rebellions that led to stable & peaceful governments taking power.

60 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:53:26pm

re: #56 austin_blue

like who? I’m curious…I just remember that Trout was totally different when I came back…KT that is…

61 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:54:25pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Anyone else think it’s very likely McCain’s trip into Syria happened with the approval of the Obama administration?

Of course it did.

62 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:55:19pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

I voted for McCain in 08- I believed in him then…not so much now, and I know he’s a POW and I bought his daughter’s book about her dad for my kids- but STILL he’s not the guy I thought he was in 08

63 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:55:23pm

Can’t remember for sure who it was, Freetoken was it you?, who pointed me at the Basic Fantasy RPG. Whoever, thank you!

Great clone of old school D&D with new school additions where appropriate. Picked up a cheap Brother laser printer that’s wireless and duplexes so I can print out documents like that really nicely.

I’ve got a copy of the “First Fantasy Campaign” which was a version of Dave Arneson’s Blackmoor campaign published by Judges Guild back in 1980. The two are a delightful fit. Now if only I had a group to DM all this with … :(

64 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:56:24pm

re: #63 William Barnett-Lewis

I’m the proud Ema of 2 legendary Dungeon masters…says more about them than me :)

65 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:57:56pm

re: #62 DisturbedEma

I voted for McCain in 08- I believed in him then…not so much now, and I know he’s a POW and I bought his daughter’s book about her dad for my kids- but STILL he’s not the guy I thought he was in 08

He doesn’t have to be for you to have some trust in him on this one. Just know that he is truly loyal to the US, that he honestly believes in freedom, and that he despises murderous cowards like Bashar Assad with a bone-deep passion.

66 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 6:58:53pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

therein lies the rub- like the 1980s and the Taliban- we supported them because they were fighting the USSR- and now, no more USSR but still have to figure out WHICH side will be the winning side- BTW- my opinion? It’s like Vegas odds…only more bloody

67 austin_blue  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:00:40pm

re: #60 DisturbedEma

like who? I’m curious…I just remember that Trout was totally different when I came back…KT that is…

I miss Occasional Reader and Ed Mahmoud’s Sock Puppet. And I really miss Reine.

68 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:01:17pm

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

Look- I do honor and respect his service- my dad was a PTSD Viet Nam vet who left us rather than make my mom and my 5 siblings and I live the war for him- BUT in his zeal to do public good he has sold out a bit on his personal politics i.e Benghazi and for that, I am gun shy

69 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:02:47pm

re: #67 austin_blue

I REMEMBER OR!!!! I miss our Russian friend as well- when was the last time he posted? My dad was first generation from The Ukraine- loved that Lizard!

70 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:05:00pm

re: #68 DisturbedEma

Look- I do honor and respect his service- my dad was a PTSD Viet Nam vet who left us rather than make my mom and my 5 siblings and I live the war for him- BUT in his zeal to do public good he has sold out a bit on his personal politics i.e Benghazi and for that, I am gun shy

I get it, but Benghazi stems from two things:

1. McCain cannot abide the idea of not acting. To him, even if the fighter to be sent would have had a 1-way trip it should have been sent, should have bombed the terrorist mortar position, and then ditched in the Med.

2. McCain is also helping his friend and ally Lindsey Graham, who needs to scream at Obama to keep his Senate seat in Obama-hating South Carolina.

71 PhillyPretzel  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:05:03pm

re: #69 DisturbedEma

Sergey? Yes I miss him too.

72 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:09:03pm

re: #71 PhillyPretzel

Yes that was him!!! Is he ok?

73 PhillyPretzel  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:10:01pm

re: #72 DisturbedEma

I honestly have no idea. I hope he is okay.

74 makeitstop  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:10:34pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

I get it, but Benghazi stems from two things:

1. McCain cannot abide the idea of not acting. To him, even if the fighter to be sent would have had a 1-way trip it should have been sent, should have bombed the terrorist mortar position, and then ditched in the Med.

If McCain actually believed that, we could have him diagnosed as clinically insane.

The fact that he and Graham skipped a briefing on Benghazi in order to hold a press conference demanding information on Benghazi kinda points in that direction already.

75 DisturbedEma  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:10:56pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

I kind of get where you are coming from i.e not acting- but still I admit I’m too much an idealist- he’d, meaning McCain, would stoop to that level? In order to make the chess board move to 2014?

76 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:14:55pm

re: #74 makeitstop

If McCain actually believed that, we could have him diagnosed as clinically insane.

The fact that he and Graham skipped a briefing on Benghazi in order to hold a press conference demanding information on Benghazi kinda points in that direction already.

Why would that have been insane? Sending aircraft in with an elevated risk of death isn’t insane. Non-Advisable, yes, but not insane.

77 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:22:09pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Why would that have been insane? Sending aircraft in with an elevated risk of death isn’t insane. Non-Advisable, yes, but not insane.

There is no sane reason during peace time to send a fighter on a one-way trip, particularly when there’s no guarantee it will do a damned thing to change the situation. You don’t waste multimillion dollar jets on fool’s errands.

78 Tigger2  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:23:02pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

Just read those two links, there was some pretty Free Republic sounding comments on them.

79 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:25:39pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

There is no sane reason during peace time to send a fighter on a one-way trip, particularly when there’s no guarantee it will do a damned thing to change the situation. You don’t waste multimillion dollar jets on fool’s errands.

There is never any guarantee any airstrike will succeed, since Mr. Murphy can always turn up at the wrong time. The reason would have been to eliminate the enemy’s mortar and hopefully give our own people a chance to regroup. To be fair, I don’t actually support the idea that such a course would have been wise.

80 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:32:28pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

There is never any guarantee any airstrike will succeed, since Mr. Murphy can always turn up at the wrong time. The reason would have been to eliminate the enemy’s mortar and hopefully give our own people a chance to regroup. To be fair, I don’t actually support the idea that such a course would have been wise.

It would have been asinine, as by the time any fighter could arrive in the area, the survivors would have already been moved out of the annex and to the airport. Instead of dealing with a government eager for us to accept their assurances that they had no part in the attack, we’d instead have a very livid Libyan president demanding to know why a US fighter jet violated sovereign Libyan airspace to engage targets that were no longer there. We’d have to recover the pilot, assuming he hadn’t been captured, and have to send in a team to recover or destroy anything valuable from the jet before the locals could pick it clean.

81 efuseakay  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:35:10pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

I’d say probably. McCain and Obama might not like each other much, but I don’t think McCain would try to undermine the president in that fashion, and I do think Obama would trust McCain’s judgement about if the people he met with are on the level or not.

Apparently he met with 5 “rebel commanders” for an hour. If this is all we need to convince us to send weapons to said “rebels” we truly have forgotten history.

82 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:36:58pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

It would have been asinine, as by the time any fighter could arrive in the area, the survivors would have already been moved out of the annex and to the airport. Instead of dealing with a government eager for us to accept their assurances that they had no part in the attack, we’d instead have a very livid Libyan president demanding to know why a US fighter jet violated sovereign Libyan airspace to engage targets that were no longer there. We’d have to recover the pilot, assuming he hadn’t been captured, and have to send in a team to recover or destroy anything valuable from the jet before the locals could pick it clean.

That’s why I said the jet would ditch in the Med. That would keep the locals away from it or the pilot. But I was just wargaming the scenario out.

83 Mattand  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:38:31pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

I got some massive down-dings myself because I didn’t immediately go into blood simple mode when Barack Obama was elected in 2008. Check out the ratings on these posts:

littlegreenfootballs.com

littlegreenfootballs.com

Yeesh. Love this gem.

Also found it entertaining the one name I recognize is NJD Hockey Fan calling Obama a dirty commie.

On the first fucking comment, no less.

84 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:39:45pm

re: #81 efuseakay

Apparently he met with 5 “rebel commanders” for an hour. If this is all we need to convince us to send weapons to said “rebels” we truly have forgotten history.

Yep. Too often in our history, one day’s rebel is the next day’s adversary. Obviously Al-Assad is bad news but McCain I think is often guilty of not looking at the long term implications.

85 Political Atheist  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:40:13pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

For a realistic look at how long this stuff takes just look at the real incidents as reported when we have air support in country but not right overhead. It takes a long time sometimes. People forget it takes time to put the right parts together. Planes, pilots, just the right weapons loaded, air refueling, rescue plans for just in case…. On and on. It can be hours. Even with forces right overhead it can be an hour. Questions from command about collateral issues etc. Friendly fire issues.

86 bratwurst  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:41:59pm

re: #84 HappyWarrior

McCain I think is often guilty of not looking at the long term implications.

It’s pretty clear he didn’t look at the long term implications of nominating Sarah Palin!

87 Targetpractice  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:43:00pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

That’s why I said the jet would ditch in the Med. That would keep the locals away from it or the pilot. But I was just wargaming the scenario out.

And where would this hypothetical jet come from, that it could sprint to Benghazi, drop its payload, then make it safely back to the Med before the pilot had to ditch? Keep in mind that jet’s do not always sit on the tarmac, waiting to go. It takes time to cut the orders, fuel the bird, load ordinance, strap the pilot in, do even basic checks, and take-off. You’re talking a minimum of 30 minutes to an hour from the moment somebody decides that sending this pilot on a one-way mission is doable to the time he actually gets in the air.

88 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:44:37pm

re: #86 bratwurst

It’s pretty clear he didn’t look at the long term implications of nominating Sarah Palin!

Concur.

89 Lidane  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:45:01pm
90 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:46:12pm

re: #86 bratwurst

It’s pretty clear he didn’t look at the long term implications of nominating Sarah Palin!

And boom goes the dynamite. But speaking of that, that was the final straw for me with him. I liked him okay from 2000-2006 but as soon as he ran again for the Republican nomination. I began to lose respect. It wasn’t just Palin. This was a man who had once called Falwell and Robertson as vicious as Farkahhan and then he was kissing their ass to get the nomination. A man who realized that tax cuts needed to be paid for but embraced the Norquist like line on taxes.

91 AlexRogan  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:48:59pm

re: #89 Lidane

They win the internets, just for the Chappelle’s Show/Charlie Murphy reference.

Image: dave_chappelle_as_prince1.jpg

92 efuseakay  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:50:27pm

re: #84 HappyWarrior

Yep. Too often in our history, one day’s rebel is the next day’s adversary. Obviously Al-Assad is bad news but McCain I think is often guilty of not looking at the long term implications.

And since when is it our business getting involved in yet another civil war… Oh wait… Sigh.

93 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:54:24pm

re: #92 efuseakay

And since when is it our business getting involved in yet another civil war… Oh wait… Sigh.

Deja vu all over again as Berra put it.

94 Charles Johnson  Mon, May 27, 2013 7:57:31pm

Circling the wagons around the Dumbest Man on the Internet:

95 jaunte  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:00:35pm

They still haven’t admitted the really disgusting fact that some of the Tea Partiers continue to trivialize Nazi atrocities by comparing them to a tax policy dispute.

96 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:02:32pm

re: #95 jaunte

They still haven’t admitted the really disgusting fact that some of the Tea Partiers continue to trivialize Nazi atrocities by comparing them to a tax policy dispute.

Thank you and this would be true even without the allegations that the Tea Parties being looked at may have violated the law. I am sorry but I am sick and tired of assholes- mostly right wing ones comparing their political troubles to what people went through in Nazi Germany. If the Tea Party was a dissident group in Nazi Germany, its members would have been imprisoned and leadership probably killed or forced into exile.One’s displeasure that Obama is president doesn’t even come close to teh same universe as the Third Reich and I said the same thing to dumbases who pulled the same stunt in the Bush years.

97 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:12:30pm

re: #94 Charles Johnson

Circling the wagons around the Dumbest Man on the Internet:

The Gallant Defense of the Indefensible.

98 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:18:10pm

Goodnight Earth!!

99 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:19:44pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

I said “Country first” when Obama was elected, and got 180 down-dings.

Clearly the right wing was not in any mood for that kind of crap.

Scary.

It’s interesting that the anti-Palin post that turned out to be 100% correct only had 4 updings.

I noticed FemNaziBitch among them.

I don’t think anyone who downdinged you is still here.

100 Gus  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:22:55pm
101 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:24:25pm

re: #100 Gus

May God receive the soul of the elder Frum unto His Mercy.

102 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:34:24pm

re: #100 Gus

That was a beautiful piece.

103 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:53:28pm

Reading that old thread is a trip.

104 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, May 27, 2013 8:54:55pm

Good night all, Peace be with you.

105 Gus  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:03:59pm

Control-Machete - Amores Perros

Youtube Video

106 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:29:03pm

I’ll sign off with this tonight: Military Funerals: How we honor our heroes

107 klys and whatnot  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:32:38pm

I bought my poppy today.

108 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:40:32pm

Captain Beefheart’s Veteran’s Day Poppy

109 Varek Raith  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:48:00pm

re: #103 Stanghazi

Reading that old thread is a trip.

Dave’s not here.

110 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:49:04pm

re: #109 Varek Raith

Dave’s not here.

Killgore stirred them up then too. And he didn’t vote. I don’t think he votes ever.

111 Stanghazi  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:50:45pm

Night all!

112 BigPapa  Mon, May 27, 2013 9:57:53pm

re: #55 Vicious Babushka

Pammy, don’t make us want to like him.

Ever notice how fucktard haters seem to love conflict and enjoy it, as opposed to finding a way to end it?

113 Varek Raith  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:14:03pm

re: #98 Stanghazi

Goodnight Earth!!

Dear almost everyone on that thread,
You were hilariously wrong.

114 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:37:04pm

One thing that has been bothering me all day is that picture of Jarrett et. al.

Something is just not right with it.

I think it is that it is a color photo that has been color corrected but without trying to retain the lighting that would have actually been in the studio/hall, which most definitely wouldn’t have been a natural daylight spectrum.

It’s an instance of trying to make something correct when correct isn’t really right.

115 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:39:04pm

MP3 Audio

116 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:39:19pm

Did I read those threads wrong, did Kilgore used to be abused for being too liberal?

117 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:39:49pm

re: #116 stabby

You did not read those threads wrongly.

118 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:40:15pm

Your song isn’t playing :(

119 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:41:56pm

re: #118 stabby

It ought to. The server it’s coming from isn’t usually blocked.

120 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:42:04pm

It was being blocked by noscript.

Fixed.

Like it.

121 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:42:46pm

It reminds me of the soundtrack to Osamu Tezuka’s Metropolis

122 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:48:31pm

Youtube Video

123 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 10:53:46pm

Darn it, playing embedded youtube captures the keyboard, then I can’t type without reloading the page.

Tab doesn’t advance the keyboard focus off of the video, and up and down keys change the volume instead of moving the mouse.

124 Amory Blaine  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:02:52pm

State Making Little Progress on Improving Train Shed

Milwaukee’s ambitiously named “Milwaukee Intermodal Station” lands rail passengers inside a 1960′s shed that one would never confuse with the Gare du Nord.

The state is under federal orders to improve the station to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act provisions, and former Governor Jim Doyle got $20 million to do so. Some preliminary engineering work — like punching holes in the train shed — was undertaken.

But Gov. Scott Walker turned down the $20 million in federal funding (part of the $800+ million high speed rail grant) that was dedicated to meeting the federal requirements, and decided to go it his way, with a $15 million idea, and appealed to the feds to exempt the state from its provisions.

Scott Walker really messed this state up with this decision. You can’t recover from something like 800 million dollars in infrastructure improvements flushed down the toilet. There are so many backwards people here it makes me sad.

cont…Meanwhile, for the ninth time in the past decade, passenger train ridership in Milwaukee has set a record, with or without Walker, but little has been said about finishing the remodeling of the train station, which was dedicated in 2007 after an extensive cosmetic remodeling. The station is owned by the State of Wisconsin.

125 engineer cat  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:04:31pm

re: #115 freetoken

[Embedded content]

more pops and his all stars. completists of pops say he seemed bored through the late 30s to the late 40s and seemed to come to life again when he started to play in the old style in 1947. i don’t this firsthand since i’ve only collected his wax up to about 1936 mself…

early editions of the all stars included the master trombonist and bosom buddy of pops, jack teagarden, who may be the second singer in that cut, since he loved to sing

check out this hilarious track from the late 20s, where teagarden shows how to sing a jive sheik of araby. the all star red nichols band also includes youngsters glen miller and benny goodman

m.youtube.com

126 Amory Blaine  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:08:00pm

American workers losing ground on wages

Wisconsin workers among hardest hit

Competition from China and other low-wage rivals, coupled with fallout from the 2007-‘09 financial crisis, has put American wages under such unprecedented strain that they have shifted into reverse — not merely stagnating, but falling.

And workers in Wisconsin are among the hardest hit in this bare-knuckled global phenomenon.

“Water finds its equilibrium, its own level,” says Jeff Joerres, chief executive of Milwaukee-based global staffing giant ManpowerGroup Inc., who refers to this accelerating leveling of wages as “global labor arbitrage.”

“It’s happening so fast on a global scale that it’s scary,” Joerres said.

In the U.S., the phenomenon is not limited to isolated and vulnerable sectors, such as commodity manufacturing. Rather, wages have fallen across the entire national economy — down 1.1% in the 12-month period from September 2011 to September 2012, the most recent comparisons available.

“Average weekly wages declined in every industry except for information,” the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported in its latest economic census.

127 Occam's Guillotine  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:11:45pm

First they came for the academics, but I wasn’t an academic so I did nothing.
Then they came for the union organizers, but I wasn’t an organizer so I did nothing.
Then they came for the reporters, but I wasn’t a reporter so I did nothing.
Then they came for the atheists, but I wasn’t an atheist so I did nothing.
Then they came for the liberal veterans………
and that’s when I finally shot them and broke the academics, reporters, atheists, and organizers out of the gulag.

128 Amory Blaine  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:18:39pm

re: #126 Amory Blaine

Wages fell 2.2% in the same period in Wisconsin. 44th place for private sector jobs, 49th for public sector.

129 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:21:01pm

Reading those old threadz, it looks to me like Obama Derangement Syndrome wasn’t in full force yet. I suspect it WAS in full force at other sites. Now I’m curious. It sure didn’t take long for it to hit if it wasn’t full on the first night.

It sure didn’t take long for PJ to sound like a klan meeting but I may not have checked it that early. They’ve erased all their old comments so I can’t tell now.

130 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:22:18pm

re: #126 Amory Blaine

I maintain that the big coming political battle will not be over the meaningless labels “conservative” or “liberal” but will be protectionism vs. free-marketeers.

It’s already laying there, seething. The glibertarian contingent who dazzle the tea-partiers with rhetoric are all for depressing wages via total removal of all trade barriers, and that mean barriers over labor movement. But the good ol’ boys and girls in fly-over country continue to see that they can’t make headway with their wages, against a global inflation that persists (and I think will persist because of intense competition over resources.)

If there ever is an isolationist who has a pretty smile and hairdo who waltzes upon the national political scene, who can rise above the current tribal warfare, he/she could unite the tea-partiers and the mainstteam Democratic party union members under the umbrella of protectionism.

131 Kragar  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:24:03pm

re: #129 stabby

I was depressed at the time, but thinking the GOP might have had a plan beyond birther nonsense and racism.

So much for that idea. Their complete failure made me reassess a lot of things, which led me to where I am today.

132 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:26:33pm

I was surprised to see comments about Acorn.

The Breitbart smear wasn’t that early I don’t think. I guess Acorn was on the radar before that and I didn’t know.

Of course there were a few funny nuts in that thread. I think someone accused Oprah of being like Satan.

133 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:27:17pm

BTW, with WND now publishing Peter Brimelow’s editorials, can we now call WND racist central?

134 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:28:13pm

I refuse to google for racists at midnight!

135 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:31:19pm

I learned something from the youtube comments:
Youtube Video

” the lyrics are actually from a sound poem by Hugo Ball called “Gadji beri bimba”, one of the founders of Dada, which strove to eliminate the conventions of language and art, often by creating completely random or incomprehensible pieces. So ya, it’s gibberish, but it’s historically significant gibberish”

136 Amory Blaine  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:37:21pm

re: #134 stabby

Nothing good comes from googling after midnight!

137 freetoken  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:39:22pm

The religious right and their free disregard for, well, scientific evidence continues unabated:


Conservative group’s sex talk at high school questioned

Having sex with eight partners is the equivalent of drinking a whole classroom’s spit.

A new sexually transmitted disease is out there that will become the new AIDS.

All medical textbooks say life begins at conception.

For an hour, Joi Wasill, the founder of nonprofit Decisions, Choices and Options, and Beth Cox of the Sumner County School Board provided a captive audience of high school freshmen and sophomores their take on STDs, abortion and adoption.

It wasn’t completely accurate, a Vanderbilt University doctor said. But neither Tennessee state law nor the class curriculum prohibits what was said.

And the nonprofit — with its strong Christian, Republican and anti-abortion ties — is on a list of approved presenters in Nashville-Davidson County’s public schools.

[…]

“It wasn’t completely accurate” is sort of like saying “it was just wrong”, no?

[…]

Cox’s school board bio lists her occupation as Decisions, Choices and Options presenter and says she served on Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam’s 2010 campaign and as a delegate to the 2008 Republican National Convention. Wasill is a former Hendersonville High School marketing teacher and mother of an adopted son.

[…]

The group’s presentation at Hillsboro High is just “Chapter 2 billion” of America’s culture wars playing out in public schools, said Mark Silk, director of the Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn.

The first arguments came in the 19th century over which Bible should be taught, he said. Now, in a world where people can’t pretend teens aren’t having sex, the conversation has shifted.

“I don’t doubt for a second this is surreptitious pro-life messaging,” he said. “The question is what’s the responsibility of the designated officials in the school system?

“This class is a magnet for propaganda.”

Yes, this is one of the many things wrong with the GOP today.

138 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:41:03pm

re: #136 Amory Blaine

I favorited that because “Googling at midnight” sounds like part of a Satanic ritual.

I will make something up about that, but WHAT is the unholy thing to google at midnight, what query will raise the undead army that Hitler drowned in the red sea just to come back on this occasion?

139 stabby  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:45:15pm

re: #137 freetoken

Having sex with eight partners is the equivalent of drinking a whole classroom’s spit.

… if only our classrooms were that small …

Though that reminds me that I got a bad case of mononucleosis after being in a kissing contest with some girls who worked a kissing booth at renfaire. That was not worth it.

I wonder if they still allow that in this oh so safe day and age.

140 Tigger2  Mon, May 27, 2013 11:48:27pm

re: #137 freetoken

The religious right and their free disregard for, well, scientific evidence continues unabated:

Conservative group’s sex talk at high school questioned

“It wasn’t completely accurate” is sort of like saying “it was just wrong”, no?

Yes, this is one of the many things wrong with the GOP today.

The only thing about this is the High School Kids are probably smarter than Joi Wasill and Beth Cox on this subject.

141 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:07:14am

Though there have been a few news articles about creationism the past week, almost all of them have focused on that one Ohio school board.

Overall, the topic seems quiet for the time being.

My guess is that the creationists are too busy fighting other fires in their not-quite-ecumenical culture wars.

The political energy behind this has tired.

We might be in for a long “heat death” of the general worldview that relied on the easy answers of creationism, damnation, and salvation.

The bible thumping tea-partying crowd is not exactly a youth movement. It will die out. Literally. However, they are still potent in the hands of the super-wealthy power brokers who know how to manipulate a crowd.

The generally religious, sometimes called “evangelical”, crowd seem to be genuinely tired of fighting their elders’ fundamentalism war.

If that be the case, then I suspect we’re in for the long haul of searching for new myths around which to center our culture.

142 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:08:35am

Ok there are SOME people who already had Obama Derangement Syndrome on the first night:

littlegreenfootballs.com
Not only a communist but a terrorist too? Really?

143 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:11:30am

re: #141 freetoken

I’ve never known anyone who believed in creationism but I had odd fights with a coworker who used to be religious over whether there was an inherent difference between human consciousness and its eventual simulation by machine/software.

I always suspected that he had a hidden belief in the soul but he wouldn’t admit to it.

144 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:15:18am

re: #142 stabby

I tried that night:
littlegreenfootballs.com

But the hate-fest was in full swing.

145 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:16:29am

**blink**

146 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:19:37am

re: #145 stabby

I really did try to talk them off the edge:
littlegreenfootballs.com

But they would have none of it.

147 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:22:50am

The further I read down the thread the worse it gets.

It’s as if Obama Derangement Syndrome descended on them over a 10 minute period.

:/ The president is a terrorist (said at least twice), his attempts to to make an inspiring speech mean that America is doomed, and God has abandon the US…

148 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:41:27am

Freetoken, I know I read a comment in one of those threads that was actually a sane evaluation of the election… I can’t find it now. I was curious if the poster was banned.

Now I suspect it was YOUR post.

It seems like a harsh thing to bring up, but every person I’ve clicked on in those threads is banned, even the few sane ones, such as the guy who was proud that we elected a black man and very mildly chastized someone who called Obama an incompetent “affirmative action president” by saying that one shouldn’t disparage the breakthrough. I swear he’s the only conservative I’ve ever read who said he was proud to see a black man elected.

149 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:47:39am

re: #148 stabby

Freetoken, I know I read a comment in one of those threads that was actually a sane evaluation of the election… I can’t find it now. I was curious if the poster was banned.

Now I suspect it was YOUR post.

Heh, there’s one in every crowd ☺

150 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:48:27am

One wingnut with his or her finger on the pulse of wingnuttia predicted skyrocketting gun sales…

Sigh.

151 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:49:33am

I used to try and be very erudite in my posts here years ago, against the wingnuts.

Eventually the few of us sane types just turned to snark and ridicule… and after the massive ban stick this place returned to calm.

Today I just ramble… and do my long-haired music thing.

152 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:49:36am

… and ammunition.
Somehow that’s even more disturbing.

153 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:50:55am

And speaking of long-haired music, what could be finer than a Sibelius concerto? Here is his violin concerto, op. 47, first mvt:

MP3 Audio

154 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:51:08am

re: #151 freetoken

Today I just ramble… and do my long-haired music thing.

I approve.

Youtube Video

155 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:57:57am

re: #153 freetoken

You flute playing longhair.

Porgy: So you see, Mudhead, it’s like the pooper said with counter subversive educational priorities the way they are, well, it really helps our side to re-enlist.

Mudhead: Is that what you’re gonna do?

Porgy: Aw, hell no! Right after I graduate I’m going to cut the soles off my
shoes, sit in a tree, and learn to play the flute.

Firesign Theater - “Don’t crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers”

156 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 1:00:07am
Announcer 3: …ical difficulties are preventing the continuation of tonight’s Foxhole Feature High School Madness. We are working on the problem…

Commercial Voice Over: Shoes for industry. Shoes for the dead. Shoes for industry

Joe Beets: Hi, I’m Joe Beets! Hey, what chance does a returning deceased war veteran have for that good paying job, more sugar, and the free mule you’ve been dreaming of. Well, think it over, then take off your shoes. Now you can see how increased spending opportunities means harder work for everyone and more of it too. So do your part today, Joe. Join with millions of your neighbors and turn in your shoes.

Commercial Voice Over: For industry!

157 engineer cat  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:05:22am

re: #153 freetoken

And speaking of long-haired music, what could be finer than a Sibelius concerto? Here is his violin concerto, op. 47, first mvt:

[Embedded content]

that’s fun - rather more lively than some of the best known sibelius

158 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:25:15am

Ha ha, ODS in the first hour of his presidency:
“And if he gets in office again, he won’t have any incentive to restrain himself from turning America into a Marxist utopia.”

One hour after Obama declared victory, someone was saying that.

159 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:29:11am

re: #158 stabby

Derangement is always sad to see, whether it’s a bigoted schmuck insisting that Islam is the most evil of all religions or someone claiming Obama is going to enact commiemarxism over the land.

For those that haven’t seen it, here’s the “Teens react” to Rick Perry’s “Strong” message.

I think their bafflement perfectly captures the inability of the GOP to interact with most people under 30.

Youtube Video

160 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:31:18am

Shut up, stalker.

161 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:33:14am

re: #160 stabby

Shut up, stalker.

Stabby, no matter how many times you say shut up to me, or call me a stalker, I’m not going to shut up, and not going to stop calling you out on hypocrisy. Your choices, I guess, are either continuing to whine about how I’m ‘stalking’ you and look like a weirdo, try to ignore me, which you fail at every time you announce you’re going to do it, or actually address what I’m saying.

I’m betting on your usual constant mix of 1 and 2.

Don’t worry, it won’t come up that often— just whenever you’re commenting on bigotry, ODS, or other related topics.

162 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:34:30am

You need to get a fucking life.

163 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 2:38:35am

re: #162 stabby

You need to get a fucking life.

Insults and shit like this don’t do anything to me either, Stabby. I don’t hold your opinion in anything like significant regard— based on your lack of critical insight— so saying crap like that is just wasting your time. I assume it must make you feel better on some level, since you do it a lot.

And, for content, here’s the awesome Amplive remix of the Submarines 1940:

Youtube Video

164 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:07:15am

I am prepared to discuss with anyone who agrees with Obama’s policies or personnel choices, be they right or left in their orientation and criticism.

I am not about to start a discussion with anyone who sees him as a Marxist, Muslim, or Kenyan. Anyone who has come already come to such a conclusion is immune to facts and logic.

165 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:17:29am

re: #164 Sol Berdinowitz

I am not about to start a discussion with anyone who sees him as a Marxist, Muslim, or Kenyan.

Why the commas and “or”? Everyone knows Obama is Marxist Muslim Kenyan.

166 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:22:12am

Since Apple no longer supports Pages for the old version of OSX I still use I decided to give OpenOffice a try, again after many years.

OpenOffice has come a long way and it feels like a finished piece of software. Yet it has that Microsoft or Wordsoft feel to it, rather clunky compared to the Apple way of doing things.

The word processor is capable enough, and the drawing program is useful if not really easy as far as user interface. For the spreadsheet I think I still prefer the Apple Numbers app.

167 freetoken  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:23:40am

Villa-Lobos:

MP3 Audio

168 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:28:59am

re: #165 freetoken

Why the commas and “or”? Everyone knows Obama is Marxist Muslim Kenyan.

And those who know have no need to discuss it…

169 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:41:04am

re: #162 stabby

Do you lack reading comprehension? Obdi has spent time trying to converse with you. I haven’t the patience.

170 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 3:48:09am

re: #164 Sol Berdinowitz

duh…I am prepared to duscuss with anyone who disagrees with Obama…

off to work, be back when the whining has died down..really, guys…better a dead thread than that.

171 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 4:30:28am

Good morning Lizards!

Relatively clear morning here in Philly. But predictions are that it will cloud up and start raining by noon.

A quiet weekend since I delayed doing travel to visit family until this upcoming weekend. Not too quiet though since the elder cat decided last night that the coffee table and dining room table *must* be free of all papers, books, and objects light enough for a cat to shove or paw off of the table. Grr.

This is probably payback for me putting loops of sticky tape on an upholstered chair whose back was a favorite clawing target.

And some good ice hockey was watched - couple of Game 7s coming up over the next few days.

172 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 4:54:57am

re: #171 Feline Fearless Leader

I love the really, really satisfied look one of my cats gets when he knocks something off the table onto the floor.

173 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 4:59:13am

re: #172 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I love the really, really satisfied look one of my cats gets when he knocks something off the table onto the floor.

It’s sort of cute until the cat starts pawing at the full glass of water or tea sitting next to the open laptop.

174 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:01:12am

Bank of America fucked up AGAIN!

When I was in Toronto, their “24/7 fraud detector” noticed some activity taking place in Canada so immediately they shut down my ATM card and my Visa card because hey, somebody in Canada is using my card! Couldn’t be me cause I only live 10 miles from the border!

So I called them from my son’s phone, navigating the Voice Mail From Hell system until I finally got to a human, got switched to two other humans and they finally turned my cards back on after only staying on the phone 45 minutes. Time that I could have spent buying ice cream for my grandkids.

Now I just checked my account online, and I see they have CHARGED ME TWICE for the gas station where my card was rejected, even though I ended up paying for it on my AmEx card.

175 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:02:53am

This is the very same Bank of America that allowed some putz in Paris France to withdraw amounts from an ATM using a compromised card of mine THAT WAS CANCELLED TWO YEARS AGO.

176 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:09:32am

re: #175 Vicious Babushka

This is the very same Bank of America that allowed some putz in Paris France to withdraw amounts from an ATM using a compromised card of mine THAT WAS CANCELLED TWO YEARS AGO.

You should stop trying to do logical things with their money. You act like it is actually yours or something like that.
///

Besides that, how was the trip to Toronto?

177 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:11:52am

re: #175 Vicious Babushka

BoA is weird. We had cash withdrawls from our savings last year over a holiday weekend from somewhere in CA. Where we weren’t. It appears a little mini mart gas station in ATL where my husband bought cigs and a soda somehow stole his debit card info and they only hit the savings not the checking. BoA was awesome in that case, got right on it, refunded the money within a week, etc.

Then there was the time I lost my debit card. Holy crap was that a mess. Took nearly a month to get me a new card, they didn’t cancel the old one until I physically went to a branch and demanded they do so. I was ready to hurt someone.

I’d love to change banks, but our mortgage and home equity loan are through them(only because BoA bought out the original companies carrying those loans)and The Husband won’t change banks.

178 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:23:05am

I did not intentionally open an account with BofA. I originally opened my account with a small regional bank, which got eated by Standard Federal, which got eated by La Salle, which got eated by ABN AMRO, which got eated by BofA.

179 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:25:41am

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

I did not intentionally open an account with BofA. I originally opened my account with a small regional bank, which got eated by Standard Federal, which got eated by La Salle, which got eated by ABN AMRO, which got eated by BofA.

All your bank are belong to us.
/

180 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:28:36am

BofA said it was my fault because I am supposed to notify them whenever I go on vacation.

There are always the AmEx pre-paid cards which are very convenient for travel, but you have to make sure to load the funds 10 business days before the scheduled travel. Even though AmEx immediately withdraws the funds electronically from your bank account it takes them 10 FREAKING DAYS to load it on the card.

If you order a new pre-paid card from AmEx it takes 10 WEEKS to process.

181 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:41:08am

re: #180 Vicious Babushka

BofA said it was my fault because I am supposed to notify them whenever I go on vacation.

There are always the AmEx pre-paid cards which are very convenient for travel, but you have to make sure to load the funds 10 business days before the scheduled travel. Even though AmEx immediately withdraws the funds electronically from your bank account it takes them 10 FREAKING DAYS to load it on the card.

If you order a new pre-paid card from AmEx it takes 10 WEEKS to process.

I had enough crap from BoA that I dumped my credit card with them 3-4 years ago. And I have 1-2 credit cards that I got for overseas travel since I keep use of my regular debit card local only in order to avoid issues like this.

Interesting about the “your fault” thing. When I was in England in the mid-90s I got back and got a call from the bank overseeing my one card informing me that it had been used in the UK. I thanked them for telling me and told them that it had actually been me.

182 Targetpractice  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:41:13am

re: #180 Vicious Babushka

BofA said it was my fault because I am supposed to notify them whenever I go on vacation.

There are always the AmEx pre-paid cards which are very convenient for travel, but you have to make sure to load the funds 10 business days before the scheduled travel. Even though AmEx immediately withdraws the funds electronically from your bank account it takes them 10 FREAKING DAYS to load it on the card.

If you order a new pre-paid card from AmEx it takes 10 WEEKS to process.

“Yeah, Bank of America, is it okay if I go on vacation? No? Okay.”

183 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:42:24am

re: #182 Targetpractice

“Yeah, Bank of America, is it okay if I go on vacation? No? Okay.”

Sounds like an ad campaign. “Bank of America. We protect your money like it was our own.”

184 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:42:54am

Why does AmEx need 10 freaking days to process an electronic transfer?

Oh, because they are USING MY MONEY for various stuff before they so nice give it back to me. Silly me, thinking that it was my own money.

185 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:43:15am

re: #183 Feline Fearless Leader

Sounds like an ad campaign. “Bank of America. We protect your money like it was our own.”

“Bank of America: Your money is our own.”

186 lawhawk  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:45:44am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. It’s going to be coolish and wet around these parts today, but by Thursday, it’s supposed to meet and greet 90+ heading into the weekend. We went from winter to summer, and then fall, and have essentially skipped spring for the most part. Except for the allergies part. They’ve been as bad as anything I’ve seen in years (and with global warming, it’s only supposed to get worse - lovely).

187 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:47:59am

re: #184 Vicious Babushka

Why does AmEx need 10 freaking days to process an electronic transfer?

Oh, because they are USING MY MONEY for various stuff before they so nice give it back to me. Silly me, thinking that it was my own money.

I am always amused (well, not so amused) about the fun extra charges that get tossed on for doing electronic transfer payments, etc. Like they’re doing a massive favor for you instead of making you write and post a check, and so forth. It is more convenient for you, of course. But the bank and the other parties are actually *saving* quite a bit with electronic transfers since they save the hands-on work of handling the pieces of paper, verifying accounts via data entry, etc.

So you get hit with a “convenience fee” for something the bank wants you to do and is more efficient and cheaper for them in any case.

188 lawhawk  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:48:26am

re: #184 Vicious Babushka

I’ve never had problems with Amex, but then again, I’ve not used their prepaid cards.

In addition to my Amex cards, I use one of the Venture Cards from Capital One Visa because it doesn’t charge the foreign transaction fees that can add up when going abroad. Might be worth considering if your BoA card keeps giving you trouble or it imposes the foreign transaction fees.

189 A Mom Anon  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:49:12am

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

that’s what happened to us too. I think the old bank was called First Union, then it was something else, then BoA.

190 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:49:36am

re: #186 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. It’s going to be coolish and wet around these parts today, but by Thursday, it’s supposed to meet and greet 90+ heading into the weekend. We went from winter to summer, and then fall, and have essentially skipped spring for the most part. Except for the allergies part. They’ve been as bad as anything I’ve seen in years (and with global warming, it’s only supposed to get worse - lovely).

NARRATOR
A year passed: winter changed into spring, spring changed into summer, summer changed back into winter, and winter gave spring and summer a miss and went straight on into autumn… until one day…

191 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:49:54am

re: #188 lawhawk

I’ve never had problems with Amex, but then again, I’ve not used their prepaid cards.

In addition to my Amex cards, I use one of the Venture Cards from Capital One Visa because it doesn’t charge the foreign transaction fees that can add up when going abroad. Might be worth considering if your BoA card keeps giving you trouble or it imposes the foreign transaction fees.

I have heard such horrible things about Capital One I want to avoid them.

I currently “enjoy” the abusive relationship that I have with BofA.

192 steve_davis  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:52:54am

I wanted to buy his early studio albums to go along with the excellent live stuff he was doing, but I just couldn’t stand the moaning. I hate it when it intrudes in Glenn Gould’s stuff, and I hate it equally in jazz.

193 lawhawk  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:52:55am

re: #191 Vicious Babushka

Oh, you’re a member of the BoA BDSM Platinum club. I hear that they’ve got a 12 step program. At least you’re into step 1 - recognizing that you’ve got a problem. ////ty

194 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:53:32am

re: #191 Vicious Babushka

I currently “enjoy” the abusive relationship that I have with BofA.

My favorite part of that abusive relationship is when your bank statement changes daily because they keep re-arranging how they account for different transactions.

No really. I like having a checking balance that fluctuates depending on the time of day they decide to update things. :-P

195 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 5:54:11am

re: #193 lawhawk

Oh, you’re a member of the BoA BDSM Platinum club. I hear that they’ve got a 12 step program. At least you’re into step 1 - recognizing that you’ve got a problem. ////ty

You acknowledge that you agree to be the submissive by using their customer service voice mail.

196 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:00:19am

BofA is a major contributor to why I lost my house. Oh, not the only reason - I haven’t worked for five years and the income was tight. But I was supposed to get this workout, only someone in the chain had my wife’s name wrong. And despite sending notarized copies of the original loan agreement (not with BoA) and a host of other things, we could never get final workout documents with the correct last name - and so we couldn’t get the workout payments which would have let us stay a bit longer and so our house was foreclosed upon.

I will never willingly use BofA for any of my banking services. It is pretty much the only place I know that were it to offer me employment I’d say no.

197 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:01:55am

Laser-like focus, etc. —

198 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:02:18am

re: #196 kirkspencer

BofA is a major contributor to why I lost my house. Oh, not the only reason - I haven’t worked for five years and the income was tight. But I was supposed to get this workout, only someone in the chain had my wife’s name wrong. And despite sending notarized copies of the original loan agreement (not with BoA) and a host of other things, we could never get final workout documents with the correct last name - and so we couldn’t get the workout payments which would have let us stay a bit longer and so our house was foreclosed upon.

I will never willingly use BofA for any of my banking services. It is pretty much the only place I know that were it to offer me employment I’d say no.

BofA engaged in some massive foreclosure fraud.

Bank of America has managed to produce some spectacular messes when it comes to foreclosures, including foreclosing on a homeowner over an 80 cent typo. The bank also foreclosed on a home that no longer exists, incorrectly repossessed a pet parrot, and foreclosed on an elderly couple for paying their mortgage too early.

Meanwhile, one whistleblower alleged that the bank intentionally blocked homeowners from getting federal mortgage aid. But, remember, the bank will give you a modification if you promise to erase the mean things you said about it on Twitter.

199 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:17:12am

re: #116 stabby

Did I read those threads wrong, did Kilgore used to be abused for being too liberal?

Yup.

200 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:27:04am

HAHA, especially Hillary supporters!

201 darthstar  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:34:22am

Mornin’ everyone…here’s a chuckle.

202 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:42:20am

re: #195 Vicious Babushka

Submissive? Safe word=Close account.

Thing is where are we not at terrible disadvantage with a bank? Where are the good banks?

203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 6:52:35am

re: #202 Political Atheist

Submissive? Safe word=Close account.

Thing is where are we not at terrible disadvantage with a bank? Where are the good banks?

A $10 donation to a specific and good charity allows you to join Alliant credit union.

That’s where I’m moving to.

alliantcreditunion.org

204 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:05:01am

re: #199 Killgore Trout

Yup.

Internet people will make up their minds as to who you are regardless of the truth. Half the time people miss the context or history of a person because as humans they’re typically only thinking of themselves.

205 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:06:17am

GUS802 HAS A HERNIA, HATES HIS SISTER AND SPENDS ALL HIS MONEY ON GIN AND DOPE AND IS A BIG GOVERNMENT PERONIST PROGRESSIVE!!

206 Stanghazi  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:09:29am

re: #204 Gus

Internet people will make up their minds as to who you are regardless of the truth. Half the time people miss the context or history of a person because as humans they’re typically only thinking of themselves.

Kilgore’s just a contrarian to any situation. He was firing them up then admitted that he doesn’t vote.

207 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:11:01am

re: #204 Gus

Internet people will make up their minds as to who you are regardless of the truth. Half the time people miss the context or history of a person because as humans they’re typically only thinking of themselves.

It happens in real life too. People with tribalist mindset identify friend or foe mostly through buzzwords and catch phrases. It really has little to do with what someones else actually believes, it’s all about the baggage you can saddle them with.

208 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:11:26am

re: #205 Gus

It’s hard enough getting to really know someone in person, let alone over these here interwebs.

209 darthstar  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:12:36am

re: #204 Gus

Internet people will make up their minds as to who you are regardless of the truth. Half the time people miss the context or history of a person because as humans they’re typically only thinking of themselves.

Wait…does this mean I’m really not an 86 year old lesbian Nun?

210 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:13:12am

re: #207 Killgore Trout

People with tribalist mindset identify friend or foe mostly through buzzwords and catch phrases. It really has little to do with what someones else actually believes, it’s all about the baggage you can saddle them with.

What’s awesome about this is using the buzzword ‘tribalist’, which is a very vague and squishy word that means nothing in particular and is usually just being used as a synonym for ‘partisan’— while you castigate the use of buzzwords.

Performance art. You so often criticize the thing you’re doing. It’s very dada.

Hey, let’s bring dada back as a buzzword. That’d be fitting.

211 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:13:47am

re: #209 darthstar

Wait…does this mean I’m really not an 86 year old lesbian Nun?

Some habits are hard to break. //

212 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:14:12am

re: #211 Gus

Some habits are hard to break. //

Youtube Video

213 darthstar  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:15:01am

Okay…time to get ready for work. Carpooling with the missus today…I always like when we can carpool together.

214 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:15:52am

re: #213 darthstar

Okay…time to get ready for work. Carpooling with the missus today…I always like when we can carpool together.

WORK?!?!

215 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:16:21am

DERP DERP HURR HURR

216 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:18:25am

Though Thought I was going to laundry today. Ankle says no and the leg agrees. Maybe it will get better later. Must make dentist appointment before mah head ‘splodes.

217 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:19:15am

Thought! Not though. Freaking Tuesdays. //

218 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:20:51am

re: #217 Gus

Thought! Not though. Freaking Tuesdays. //

And Mondays and Fridays. Wednesdays and Thursdays certainly do their part as well. And we shall not speak of weekend days that make ruins of plans. ///

219 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:22:22am

re: #218 kirkspencer

And Mondays and Fridays. Wednesdays and Thursdays certainly do their part as well. And we shall not speak of weekend days that make ruins of plans. ///

BREAKING! GUS802 HAS A TOOTH ACHE, A HERNIA, SPENDS ALL HIS MONEY ON GIN AND DOPE AND HATES HIS SISTER!

[Screen shot.]

220 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:22:59am

HOLY CRAP DANA IS FREAKING DUMB

221 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:26:52am

re: #216 Gus

Though Thought I was going to laundry today. Ankle says no and the leg agrees. Maybe it will get better later. Must make dentist appointment before mah head ‘splodes.

Have you thought about changing avatars on these sorts of days?

Crippled Mustang

222 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:27:00am

FAIL OF THE DAY
Dear Dim Jim & Dumb Dana:
DSCC letter WHICH YOU FREAKING REPRODUCE ON YOUR BLOG says nothing about “supporting Nazis” it says Tea Party “waved signs with Nazi symbols”

223 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:30:14am

re: #221 Feline Fearless Leader

Have you thought about changing avatars on these sorts of days?

Crippled Mustang

I’m a grouchy old cripple. Whodda thunk it. :O

224 Stanghazi  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:31:47am
225 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:36:10am

re: #224 Stanghazi

It’s interesting how the squares (can’t think of another name to call them) are making a big deal about him having liked the weed. I mean, seriously, this is 2013. Most young folks like bud, and I’m not talking beer. Basically, Trayvon was like a libertarian. He liked pot and liked guns. At least judging from the images I saw. He’s more similar — was — to his detractors than they would like to admit.

226 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:36:29am

ZOMFG!!11!! The local JCC also has separate swimming times for men & women. IT TEH SHARIA!!!11!!!!!!

227 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:36:49am

OMG! OMG! OMG! TRAYVON MARTIN LIKED POT! HE WAS A SUPER-CRIMINAL!!

228 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:37:03am

re: #225 Gus

It’s interesting how the squares (can’t think of another name to call them) are making a big deal about him having liked the weed. I mean, seriously, this is 2013. Most young folks like bud, and I’m not talking beer. Basically, Trayvon was like a libertarian. He liked pot and liked guns. At least judging from the images I saw. He’s more similar — was — to his detractors than they would like to admit.

Yeah. Macho culture, really. Different varieties.

229 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:37:23am

re: #227 Gus

OMG! OMG! OMG! TRAYVON MARTIN LIKED POT! HE WAS A SUPER-CRIMINAL!!

That explains the Skittles.

230 Stanghazi  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:38:22am

re: #225 Gus

It’s interesting how the squares (can’t think of another name to call them) are making a big deal about him having liked the weed. I mean, seriously, this is 2013. Most young folks like bud, and I’m not talking beer. Basically, Trayvon was like a libertarian. He liked pot and liked guns. At least judging from the images I saw. He’s more similar — was — to his detractors than they would like to admit.

But black!

231 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:38:34am

re: #229 Vicious Babushka

That explains the Skittles.

THAT MAN IS CARRYING SKITTLES! HE MUST HAVE THE MUNCHIES, ERGO, HE’S A POTHEAD! SHOT HIM! KILL HIM NOW BEFORE HE KILLS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

232 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:39:19am

re: #231 Gus

Meanwhile, every cop I know would break down in grateful tears if they were told that for the rest of their professional lives they’d only encounter stoners, not drunks.

233 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:40:25am

re: #232 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Meanwhile, every cop I know would break down in grateful tears if they were told that for the rest of their professional lives they’d only encounter stoners, not drunks.

Ugh. I’ll say. You ever watch Cops? It’s mostly a bunch of drunks that the cops are dealing with. I don’t watch it but I hear it in the background sometimes. It’s depressing.

234 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:41:47am

re: #233 Gus

I’ve seriously never gotten the appeal. It’s boring as hell. Are people just waiting for the rare one where someone flips out? It’s looking at people at their most unfortunate and miserable, a lot of the time.

235 Mattand  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:43:19am

re: #233 Gus

Ugh. I’ll say. You ever watch Cops? It’s mostly a bunch of drunks that the cops are dealing with. I don’t watch it but I hear it in the background sometimes. It’s depressing.

IIRC, the former Seattle police chief is a Legalize Pot guy. He asks LEOs how often they have to deal with violent drunks, and then asks them to compare that to the amount of violent stoners.

Apparently, this catches people off guard.

236 Mattand  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:44:41am

re: #227 Gus

OMG! OMG! OMG! TRAYVON MARTIN LIKED POT! HE WAS A SUPER-CRIMINAL!!

I can think of two regulars here who are going to use that for their “Trayvon had it coming” defenses.

237 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:45:26am

re: #234 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’ve seriously never gotten the appeal. It’s boring as hell. Are people just waiting for the rare one where someone flips out? It’s looking at people at their most unfortunate and miserable, a lot of the time.

It was the first network TV reality show. IIRC, it was created during a writer’s strike and the producers were all HA HA we don’t need to pay no writers!

238 Stanghazi  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:45:54am

re: #236 Mattand

I can think of two regulars here who are going to use that for their “Trayvon had it coming” defenses.

That’s the plan.

Make the kid deserve being shot. Its so blatantly racicst and hateful.

Sad sad sad sad sad

239 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:46:01am

re: #234 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’ve seriously never gotten the appeal. It’s boring as hell. Are people just waiting for the rare one where someone flips out? It’s looking at people at their most unfortunate and miserable, a lot of the time.

Isn’t it mostly filmed in Florida?

240 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:46:31am

Filmed. :D More like recorded or taped. Filmed is like dialing it in. //

241 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:47:03am

Florida man _________________________ .

242 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:47:24am
243 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:50:03am

Right. He smoked pot and had a picture of a hand gun. A hand gun that the NRA and every other gun nut glorifies. A 2nd Amendment right. An image that is as common as the sky is blue within certain circles of gun lovers. Apparently, that’s supposed to justify something. Pot + hand gun + ni-CLANG = ____________________ . Bang?

244 Mattand  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:52:01am

re: #242 Gus

The judge in the Zimmerman case appears to be taking a hard line with his defense team today…

I’m unfortunately of the opinion that Zimmerman is going to walk.

245 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:53:12am

Morning fellow Lizards. Hope everyone had a good memorial day. I’m back from a week spent entertaining the wingnut parents.

246 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:53:27am

re: #244 Mattand

I’m unfortunately of the opinion that Zimmerman is going to walk.

That could happen. At best maybe involuntary manslaughter or something like that. Maybe 2-5 years. Not sure if Florida law allows that though. It seems to be all or nothing.

247 Interesting Times  Tue, May 28, 2013 7:56:25am

Speaking of guns… :(

248 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:00:00am

re: #237 Vicious Babushka

It was the first network TV reality show. IIRC, it was created during a writer’s strike and the producers were all HA HA we don’t need to pay no writers!

And the viewers seemed not to miss the writers, either.

249 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:00:27am

re: #247 Interesting Times

Speaking of guns… :(

Yep. Some former Marine. They found his body yesterday I think.

250 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:01:00am

re: #244 Mattand

I’m unfortunately of the opinion that Zimmerman is going to walk.

Given the shoddy way in which the incident was dealt with by the police, I cannot see how they can produce enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

251 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:02:33am
252 Mattand  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:02:43am

re: #247 Interesting Times

Speaking of guns… :(

Just listened to the most recent podcast of Real Time. S.E. Cupp went on a tear at Michael Moore over gun ownership. Her logic is that she needs one for self-defense.

That’s possible, I guess. She’s in the public eye and is outspoken, which is going to irritate people. Some of whom probably aren’t on speaking terms with reality.

I just keep going back to the whole “part of well-regulated militia” thing. Apologies to the law-abiding gun owners, but I’m guessing most of them aren’t members of a well-regulated militia, or any sort of military or para-military force.

It’s really hard to believe that the Founders wanted everyone to be armed to the teeth. Particularly with the hand held weapons of mass destruction that are relatively easy to purchase.

We really need to amend the 2nd Amendment.

253 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:02:59am

TEH JUICE ARE BEHIND EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!

254 Mattand  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:04:15am

re: #250 Sol Berdinowitz

Given the shoddy way in which the incident was dealt with by the police, I cannot see how they can produce enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

Seriously. When local law enforcement treats the incident like “Fuck it, it’s just another dead black kid”, these are the results you’re going to get.

255 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:07:41am

:D

256 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:07:53am

re: #254 Mattand

Seriously. When local law enforcement treats the incident like “Fuck it, it’s just another dead black kid”, these are the results you’re going to get.

And when they treat the guy who killed him as a Neighborhood Watch Officer standing his ground in the course of doing his duty, doubly so.

And when the fellow’s dad leans on the police not to look too closely.

It all but guarantees that he wil walk.

257 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:09:57am

re: #256 Sol Berdinowitz

And when they treat the guy who killed him as a Neighborhood Watch Officer standing his ground in the course of doing his duty, doubly so.

And when the fellow’s dad leans on the police not to look too closely.

It all but guarantees that he wil walk.

Let’s remember that one investigating detective very much did want to arrest Zimmerman and have it prosecuted, and I think it was a DA decision not to.

258 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:13:40am

re: #257 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Let’s remember that one investigating detective very much did want to arrest Zimmerman and have it prosecuted, and I think it was a DA decision not to.

Yes, there was pressure applied from above…

And that is what really stinks about this case.

Zimmermann will walk, there will be protests that devolve into riots and, well, we know what the rest is going to look and sound like…

259 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:14:04am

re: #252 Mattand

According to SCOTUS, the militia requirement is out. Good, bad, right or wrong it’s now an affirmed individual right. If we must amend, we must amend in the self defense aspect.

260 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:14:20am

Dulce de leche! I can eat a whole can of the stuff. :D

261 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:14:36am

No wonder my teeth hurt.

262 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:16:02am

re: #255 Gus

:D

They have really shitty Photoshop skills.

263 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:16:19am

re: #259 Political Atheist

According to SCOTUS, the militia requirement is out. Good, bad, right or wrong it’s now an affirmed individual right. If we must amend, we must amend in the self defense aspect.

Or there can be a different Supreme Court decision.

Which is why hanging your hat on a 5-4 decision is a bad idea. It’s a bulwark, but that’s all.

264 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:16:25am

re: #250 Sol Berdinowitz

What bearing if any would Zimmerman’s concrete impact injuries have on reasonable doubt? Any?

265 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:18:36am

re: #259 Political Atheist

According to SCOTUS, the militia requirement is out. Good, bad, right or wrong it’s now an affirmed individual right. If we must amend, we must amend in the self defense aspect.

actually, no. An amendment trumps the SCOTUS.

That said, practicality matters. Any amendment must pass in 2/3 of the states. If you’re going for majority on all those states to vote saying “Militia, not self-defense” you’re going to need a helluva selling team.

266 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:21:14am

re: #262 Vicious Babushka

They have really shitty Photoshop skills.

Cracked me up. I like the way the feet are off to the side as well. It’s like he’s doing the Moon Walk or something.

267 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:21:33am

re: #264 Political Atheist

What bearing if any would Zimmerman’s concrete impact injuries have on reasonable doubt? Any?

There is no way to find out what happened on that evening, any chance to collect evidence is gone, and in absence of any testimony on the part of Trayvon martin, we have to accept Zimmermann’s version of events, as long as it is reasonably consistent with itself.

268 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:21:51am

DJI
15485.53
+182.43 (1.19%)

269 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:22:10am
270 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:27:54am
271 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:29:24am
272 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:29:33am

Chinese hackers access major weapons systems: Washington Post

WASHINGTON/CANBERRA (Reuters) - Chinese hackers have gained access to designs of more than two dozen major U.S. weapons systems, a U.S. report said on Monday, as Australian media said Chinese hackers had stolen the blueprints for Australia’s new spy headquarters.

Citing a report prepared for the Defense Department by the Defense Science Board, the Washington Post said the compromised U.S. designs included those for combat aircraft and ships, as well as missile defenses vital for Europe, Asia and the Gulf.

Among the weapons listed in the report were the advanced Patriot missile system, the Navy’s Aegis ballistic missile defense systems, the F/A-18 fighter jet, the V-22 Osprey, the Black Hawk helicopter and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The report did not specify the extent or time of the cyber-thefts or indicate if they involved computer networks of the U.S. government, contractors or subcontractors.

But the espionage would give China knowledge that could be exploited in a conflict, such as the ability to knock out communications and corrupting data, the Post said. It also could speed China’s development of its defense technology.

In a report to Congress this month, the Pentagon said China was using espionage to modernize its military and its hacking was a serious concern. It said the U.S. government had been the target of hacking that appeared to be “attributable directly to the Chinese government and military.”

China dismissed the report as groundless.

273 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:30:50am

DJI approaching 16,000. White House aware of McCain’s trip to Syria. PBO meets with Governor Christie of NJ. I’d say things are looking good for this president. Yet…

274 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:31:34am

Could it be?! Could it be that PBO really is bi, bi, bipartisan!?!?!?

275 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:32:49am

re: #265 kirkspencer

Oh sorry I was not clear. What we have now is an affirmed right hinging at least in part on self defense.

Frankly, an amendment won’t happen IMO. But if it did happen, self defense would have to be dealt with. I think militia is out entirely, although the armed citizenry is the well from which to draw in theory, or in the event of civil unrest on a wide scale like the Rodney King riots and the police are withdrawn from the streets.

276 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:33:01am

Image: BLXL_GuCAAEpgpU.jpg

277 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:33:30am
278 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:34:18am

USAF TWEETING ELLEN DEGENERES!! ZOMG! LESBIANS ARE TAKIN’ OVER TEH WHIRLED!!

279 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:34:32am

re: #277 Gus

Man, the military appears to really have Gotten The Memo on this from Obama. Or maybe it’s just the pent-up creativity of lots of gay soldiers and airmen surging to the forefront.

280 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:35:15am

re: #267 Sol Berdinowitz

There is no way to find out what happened on that evening, any chance to collect evidence is gone, and in absence of any testimony on the part of Trayvon martin, we have to accept Zimmermann’s version of events, as long as it is reasonably consistent with itself.

Or as long as Zimmerman’s version doesn’t contradict known facts, or as long as he isn’t impeached (demonstrated to be a liar). For which, by the way, public statements about the case can be used. Which means it’s possible (not guaranteed) that the prosecution can say, “Proven liar Zimmerman claims this is what happened. But remember he lies.”

281 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:35:40am

re: #279 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Man, the military appears to really have Gotten The Memo on this from Obama. Or maybe it’s just the pent-up creativity of lots of gay soldiers and airmen surging to the forefront.

Bad day for the wingnuts. USAF Tweeting The Ellen Show. DOW approaching 16,000. PBO meeting with Republican governor Christie! OUTRAGE!

282 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:36:07am

re: #279 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Man, the military appears to really have Gotten The Memo on this from Obama. Or maybe it’s just the pent-up creativity of lots of gay soldiers and airmen surging to the forefront.

…and the WH knew about McCain’s trip to Syria.

283 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:36:08am
284 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:37:50am

re: #280 kirkspencer

Or as long as Zimmerman’s version doesn’t contradict known facts, or as long as he isn’t impeached (demonstrated to be a liar). For which, by the way, public statements about the case can be used. Which means it’s possible (not guaranteed) that the prosecution can say, “Proven liar Zimmerman claims this is what happened. But remember he lies.”

That, unforntunately, is probably not enough to establish a case against him beyond a reasonable doubt.

285 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:37:55am
286 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:40:04am

re: #278 Gus

Why did that guy not have pants on?

I love Ellen.

287 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:41:00am

re: #267 Sol Berdinowitz

The injuries are evidence we have. I recall the existence of such injuries were once denied by many but now we know better. There is limited evidence, rather than none.

288 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:44:46am

re: #285 Gus

Not really, the judges ruling only applies to opening statements.
usnews.nbcnews.com

The judge ruled that the evidence about past fights could not be mentioned in opening statements but said it could be admitted during trial if the defense could authenticate it and overcome rules against hearsay evidence.

289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:45:58am

re: #288 Killgore Trout

if the defense could authenticate it and overcome rules against hearsay evidence.

There’s a pretty strong barrier to hearsay evidence.

290 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:46:34am

re: #284 Sol Berdinowitz

That, unforntunately, is probably not enough to establish a case against him beyond a reasonable doubt.

Actually it might be. We have a dead body. We have a man who entered an area while armed in pursuit of someone else. We know he did so despite police dispatch advising him not to do so, and telling him police were on the way. We have proof positive that this man killed the someone else.

The entirety of the defense is not “he didn’t do it” but what amount to a claim that Zimmerman was in the right, and the vast majority of that claim is based upon Zimmerman’s claims.

291 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:49:43am

re: #290 kirkspencer

I suspect the injuries sustained in the fight will be the doubt. But the jury will tell.

292 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:51:36am

re: #291 Political Atheist

The best outcome for CCW holders— Zimmerman convicted for murder— is unlikely to come about.

I think he’s likely to be set free, and ‘rightly’, in that our justice system favors freeing the innocent over punishing the guilty.

293 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:54:42am

Ladies and gentleman of this jury, this man, Trayvon Martin, was high on pot when the defendant shot him in self defense! It is a known fact that individuals high on weed are a potential danger much like those people high on crack cocaine or meth!

//

294 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:56:06am

re: #293 Gus

Many people who smoke weed are Mexicans, and shiftless. William Randolph Hearst told me so.

295 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:56:31am

This man was a known pot smoker and a practicing homosexual! Clearly he posed a danger to society.

//

296 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:57:11am

re: #290 kirkspencer

Actually it might be. We have a dead body. We have a man who entered an area while armed in pursuit of someone else. We know he did so despite police dispatch advising him not to do so, and telling him police were on the way. We have proof positive that this man killed the someone else.

The entirety of the defense is not “he didn’t do it” but what amount to a claim that Zimmerman was in the right, and the vast majority of that claim is based upon Zimmerman’s claims.

That is a strong case, and if the forensics people had been there right away and on the spot, they could have built a much stronger case against him.

But now, unfortunately, it looks like reasonable doubt will win the day.

297 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:58:41am
298 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 8:59:26am

re: #297 NJDhockeyfan

Is that guy wearing the “aigle-bot” t-shirt?

299 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:04:14am

re: #292 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

How would a murder conviction be helpful to CCW holders?

This whole thing is a huge net negative for CCW, no matter what the jury says. It’s an illustration of a proverbial screwed pooch that resulted in an unnecessary fight then a tragic death.

300 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:06:32am

re: #292 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think he’s likely to be set free, and ‘rightly’, in that our justice system favors freeing the innocent over punishing the guilty.

Our justice system is about establishing guilt, and failing that, it cannot punish.

301 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:06:37am

re: #296 Sol Berdinowitz

Do you give any weight at all to his injuries on the back of his head?

302 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:06:42am

Stupid.

303 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:07:59am

re: #299 Political Atheist

How would a murder conviction be helpful to CCW holders?

Because right now it seems like a CCW weapon holder can stalk someone, get into a confrontation with them under murky circumstances, and then use the fact that they were armed and that the other person was ‘trying to get their gun’ as a defense for killing them.

To put it another way, Zimmerman is the worst advertisement for CCW ever.

This whole thing is a huge net negative for CCW, no matter what the jury says. It’s an illustration of a proverbial screwed pooch that resulted in an unnecessary fight then a tragic death.

That’s true. And the basic problem is that a CCW holder followed someone while playing at vigilante. It’d be best for other CCW holders if this aberrant, reckless, dangerous behavior was punished and repudiated and shown not to be anything like what an average CCW holder would do.

304 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:08:30am

re: #302 Gus

Stupid.

Looks like a pudgy Belgian waiter bringing me a waffle.

305 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:08:49am

re: #302 Gus

Stupid.

It kinda looks like Cartman in his Hitler costume.

306 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:10:26am

Who are the ‘hotheads’?

307 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:11:47am

re: #301 Political Atheist

Do you give any weight at all to his injuries on the back of his head?

I certainly do, but I seriously do not believe think that the prosecution will be able to bring a case that will establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt according to the standards of our justice system.

308 lawhawk  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:13:24am

re: #306 NJDhockeyfan

That may be Israel, or the EU, or the US, but the Russians are themselves acting as hotheads when they ship weapons to Assad’s forces who in turn may be shipping them off to Hizbullah or Iran or using them in the civil war against Syrian civilians.

309 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:14:27am
310 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:14:37am

^^

What he said.

311 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:15:29am

Seems to me that some people see this as Martin being on trial. That is to say they want to see what actions Martin took which warranted a civilian death sentence carried out by Zimmerman.

312 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:15:52am

re: #309 Gus

re: #310 Lidane

Zimmerman’s chief defense is to do just that: make it about the man who allegedly threatened him to the point of lethal self-defense.

313 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:17:21am

Oops. Too many “sees.”

314 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:17:31am

re: #301 Political Atheist

Do you give any weight at all to his injuries on the back of his head?

No. Once Martin was attacked for no reason by Zimmerman, any actions he took in defending himself was legitimate.

315 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:17:43am

re: #291 Political Atheist

I suspect the injuries sustained in the fight will be the doubt. But the jury will tell.

There was a fight. Zimmerman was losing. Of that there is no doubt. But the prosecution isn’t seeking first degree. They’re seeking second degree. Florida statute 782.04 (2):

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree[.]

The “depraved mind” bit is interesting, and when you get right down to it is where Zimmerman’s defense team is sweating. Zimmerman went, armed, to a fight despite law enforcement admonishment. He was not in defense of property, life, or limb. He got into a fight and, when losing, pulled the gun so he did not lose instead of “just taking his lumps”.

His story is that he was in fear for his life, hence the self-defense element. This is where the question of whether he’s a liar becomes critical. Without that claim the proof - by witness and existing forensic evidence - is that Zimmerman went looking to win a fight by fair means or foul. Which is, basically, a depraved mind.

I don’t know if I can emphasize this enough but I’ll try. There is no shadow of doubt as to whether Zimmerman did this. That tosses normal TV perception out the window. The question is whether Zimmerman was right to do so.

So what this battle is really going to be is Zimmerman’s team making claims that show Martin needed killing, and the prosecution showing why the claim doesn’t fly. “He’s a liar” takes out most of Zimmerman’s claims. Hearsay rules destroy a lot of the claims Martin was a dangerous druglord not yet convicted.

It’s going to come down to the relative persuasiveness of the attorneys - or of Zimmerman if he takes the stand.

316 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:18:06am

re: #307 Sol Berdinowitz

That injury is the physical evidence of Zimmerman getting beaten onto concrete, flat on his back. If the jury accepts that as a part of events, it’s about over. If they do not, then a conviction would be a lot more likely.

How do we suppose those injuries happened at all? Is it not possible that two wrongs, an illegal and tragic approach by Zimmerman and then a physical assault by Trayvon is what actually transpired?

317 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:18:48am

re: #312 Sol Berdinowitz

Zimmerman’s chief defense is to do just that: make it about the man who allegedly threatened him to the point of lethal self-defense.

Of course it is. He needs to make Trayvon Martin threatening enough to kill.

Never mind the fact that the kid had gone to the convenience store to get iced tea and Skittles and that he was being chased by a guy who had no business tailing him after the dispatch told him to stand down. He has to be turned into a full-blown member of the Crips to justify Zimmerman murdering him.

318 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:19:17am

re: #316 Political Atheist

That injury is the physical evidence of Zimmerman getting beaten onto concrete, flat on his back. If the jury accepts that as a part of events, it’s about over. If they do not, then a conviction would be a lot more likely.

How do we suppose those injuries happened at all? Is it not possible that two wrongs, an illegal and tragic approach by Zimmerman and then a physical assault by Trayvon is what actually transpired?

Is your argument essentially that if I provoke someone into attacking me I can then legally kill them?

319 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:19:25am

re: #316 Political Atheist

That injury is the physical evidence of Zimmerman getting beaten onto concrete, flat on his back. If the jury accepts that as a part of events, it’s about over.

Not if they think that Zimmerman was responsible for the fight, though.

320 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:19:36am

re: #314 William Barnett-Lewis

No. Once Martin was attacked for no reason by Zimmerman, any actions he took in defending himself was legitimate.

THIS.

I don’t give a damn about Zimmerman’s injuries. They were self-defense by Trayvon Martin against an asshole who had jumped him with a gun.

321 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:19:51am

How do we know if Zimmerman wasn’t already brandishing his weapon? We don’t. All we have is the word of man that is alive against that of a dead man. Regardless of his head injury.

322 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:21:14am

re: #318 iossarian

No my argument is a jury could be convinced that getting your head bashed onto concrete from flat on your back is deadly peril, however he got there.

Outcomes in court from deadly fights are rarely cut and dried like what we might want to see here.

323 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:21:34am

re: #320 Lidane

THIS.

I don’t give a damn about Zimmerman’s injuries. They were self-defense by Trayvon Martin against an asshole who had jumped him with a gun.

Or Trayvon did double back and jump him. That’s possible too. We don’t know the facts of the actual confrontation.

That it happened at all, and that there was a gun involved, is entirely on Zimmerman.

324 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:22:40am
325 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:23:25am

re: #323 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

That it happened at all, and that there was a gun involved, is entirely on Zimmerman.

Exactly.

He’s the one who decided that Trayvon Martin was a threat when the kid wasn’t doing anything more than walking home. He’s the one who had a gun, and who told the dispatcher he was going to tail the kid, even after the dispatcher told him not to intervene.

Trayvon Martin’s death is entirely on Zimmerman. Full stop.

326 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:23:40am

re: #318 iossarian

Is your argument essentially that if I provoke someone into attacking me I can then legally kill them?

No, but if you leave no living wintess to cntradict your version of events, you stand a good chance of getting off…

327 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:27:08am

re: #322 Political Atheist

No

Well, OK then…

my argument is a jury could be convinced that getting your head bashed onto concrete from flat on your back is deadly peril, however he got there.

But wait! So you are saying that if you provoke someone into a fight and then kill them you can be acquitted in a jury trial. Isn’t that the same thing?

328 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:27:57am

re: #323 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Or Trayvon did double back and jump him. That’s possible too. We don’t know the facts of the actual confrontation.

That it happened at all, and that there was a gun involved, is entirely on Zimmerman.

I agree with this entirely. We have to accept multiple possibilities.

I have a slight disagreement with you above-There is no better outcome for CCW. Bad and bad are the options i think Fortunately this kind of incident is not at all common among CCW holders. Mostly by far and away it’s carry all day and nothing happens.

Even if GZ is found not guilty-Only an deliberate idiot would actually look at this and see they can repeat Zimmermans actions and be anything but wrong, likely to get in huge legal peril, and stupid beyond all measure.

329 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:29:49am

re: #326 Sol Berdinowitz

No, but if you leave no living witness to contradict your version of events, you stand a good chance of getting off…

Like O.J. Simpson for instance. (fixed a little spelling in the quote)

330 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:29:59am
331 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:31:14am

re: #324 Gus

Didn’t Whoopie Goldberg defend this shitbird by claiming that what he did wasn’t really “rape rape” because he fed his victim roofies?

332 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:31:16am

re: #324 Gus

333 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:31:26am

re: #327 iossarian

Well, OK then…

But wait! So you are saying that if you provoke someone into a fight and then kill them you can be acquitted in a jury trial. Isn’t that the same thing?

I’m saying it can happen. Not that I like that outcome, I don’t. It’s like the old duel thing. Provoke the incident.

334 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:32:24am

re: #331 Vicious Babushka

Didn’t Whoopie Goldberg defend this shitbird by claiming that what he did wasn’t really “rape rape” because he fed his victim roofies?

I think so. A lot of people defended this asshole.

335 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:32:35am

re: #328 Political Atheist

I agree with this entirely. We have to accept multiple possibilities.

I have a slight disagreement with you above-There is no better outcome for CCW. Bad and bad are the options i think Fortunately this kind of incident is not at all common among CCW holders. Mostly by far and away it’s carry all day and nothing happens.

Even if GZ is found not guilty-Only an deliberate idiot would actually look at this and see they can repeat Zimmermans actions and be anything but wrong, likely to get in huge legal peril, and stupid beyond all measure.

FWIW, I think Rodriguez’s attack on Danaher put a lot of cap there. That’s the case in Texas where Rodriguez went to complain about the party’s loud noise, started loudly claiming “I am in fear for my life”, and then shot Danaher. (Yes, there’s more to it, but that’s the critical point.) SYG only goes so far and despite some truly stupid decisions running around it’s worth remembering that juries are going to look at who started it.

336 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:34:31am

re: #329 Political Atheist

Like O.J. Simpson for instance. (fixed a little spelling in the quote)

Speaking of OJ, did you see this?

O.J. Simpson Fan Finds Fame With Huge Mugshot Tattoo

O.J. Simpson has one die-hard fan left, and even he may be a little conflicted about it. This week Buffalo Bills fan Bryan LaBarron found sports fame when multiple sports media sources published photographs of the huge and extremely realistic tattoo on LaBarron’s upper thigh — a picture of the infamous mugshot from Simpson’s 1994 booking when he was accused of slaying his wife Nicole Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman.

…Buffalo Bills fan Bryan LaBarron went beyond the call of duty to get the photo-realistic ink placed on his right upper thigh — a process that he said took about nine hours. Ouch.

However, LaBarron may have wavered a bit over the years in his support of Simpson. Check out the T-shirt he wore in one of his photos posted to Facebook earlier in the year. Heh.

337 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:34:42am

re: #328 Political Atheist

I agree with this entirely. We have to accept multiple possibilities.

I have a slight disagreement with you above-There is no better outcome for CCW. Bad and bad are the options i think Fortunately this kind of incident is not at all common among CCW holders. Mostly by far and away it’s carry all day and nothing happens.

Even if GZ is found not guilty-Only an deliberate idiot would actually look at this and see they can repeat Zimmermans actions and be anything but wrong, likely to get in huge legal peril, and stupid beyond all measure.

Unfortunately, the current laws for CCW ownership don’t prevent deliberate idiots from owning weapons. And it really does show how easily you could get away with this. Pick the local thug, a guy with a known violent past, a real thug, unlike Trayvon. Find him in an unobserved location, pick a fight with him, and then shoot him.

Anyway, my point is people’s perceptions of CCW holders. Since more people are starting to understand that owning a gun for personal defense is a red herring that’s completely inappropriate for most people, this case has increased the distrust of CCW holders by the public, especially the particular defense that Zimmerman used that Trayvon ‘went for his gun’ and that’s why he had to shoot him.

It unforunately doesn’t matter how frequent this is, since it’s highly publicized. And since most people are smart enough to figure out that the ordinary person doesn’t actually need a gun for self-defense, this has made people look at CCW holders more askance. Unfortunately, US gun culture, with its fetishization of Rambo self-defense and ‘man-card’ bullshit means there are CCW holders who fantasize about being a vigilante hero, too. And they’re often the loudest.

338 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:34:48am
339 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:35:36am

re: #333 Political Atheist

I’m saying it can happen. Not that I like that outcome, I don’t. It’s like the old duel thing. Provoke the incident.

OK then. I got the impression from your posts about the head injuries that you supported that interpretation/outcome, but if you don’t that’s a good thing.

340 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:36:15am

Time to pull up that Cab Calloway song.

341 lawhawk  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:38:06am

re: #340 Gus

Youtube Video

342 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:38:52am

What I don’t understand is how did something this totally awesome get posted at Free Republic?

343 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:39:55am

re: #341 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

SCARY BLAH PEOPLE JUNKED UP ON JUTE!!! //

344 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:40:39am

Cab was ahead of his time.

345 Mattand  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:41:00am

re: #342 Vicious Babushka

What I don’t understand is how did something this totally awesome get posted at Free Republic?

I’m not getting the “hoping for” part. Hoping for what?*

*Yes, yes, I know; it’s the Freepers. Real world logic doesn’t apply.

346 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:41:55am

Worst. Socialist. EVAR.

347 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:43:45am

re: #345 Mattand

I’m not getting the “hoping for” part. Hoping for what?*

*Yes, yes, I know; it’s the Freepers. Real world logic doesn’t apply.

I don’t get the “hoping for” either, but the picture is totally cool.

348 Targetpractice  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:44:29am

re: #346 Lidane

Worst. Socialist. EVAR.

It’s a bubble! It’ll burst any day now! Obama’s a fraud!!!

349 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:45:41am

re: #346 Lidane

Worst. Socialist. EVAR.

Profits up! Stock prices up! Wealth doubled!

Mid-to-low incomes stagnated!

SOCIULIAM!!!

350 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:49:17am

re: #339 iossarian

I support the admission of all the physical evidence there is, especially the physical evidence. I object to people dismissing that very real injury out of hand because of what they want the verdict to be. Then of course beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard of proof as it should be for long term big picture justice. Some cases will always go awry, one way or another.

351 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:49:27am

I see Robert Stacy McCain is still obsessively hate-tweeting at me.

352 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:50:40am

re: #351 Charles Johnson

I see Robert Stacy McCain is still obsessively hate-tweeting at me.

Between that and obsessively hate-tweeting ZOMG TEH TEENAGE LESBIAN CHILD MOLESTER!!11!!

353 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:50:47am

re: #350 Political Atheist

A head injury doesn’t say much, again, if the jury thinks he instigated the fight.

354 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:52:20am

re: #188 lawhawk

I’ve never had problems with Amex, but then again, I’ve not used their prepaid cards.

In addition to my Amex cards, I use one of the Venture Cards from Capital One Visa because it doesn’t charge the foreign transaction fees that can add up when going abroad. Might be worth considering if your BoA card keeps giving you trouble or it imposes the foreign transaction fees.

I have to second the Capital One stuff for the no foreign transaction fees. We do generally try to call and give them a heads up before international travel - the credit union too - because it cuts down on potential headaches.

The credit card I have through my credit union has been awesome - they’ve caught fraud before it’s hit my balance twice, and been pretty good about the subsequent hassle.

All of this, though, is why I am absolutely allergic to debit cards. I want the opportunity to review my transactions before they come out of my checking account.

355 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:54:13am
356 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:55:28am

re: #337 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Maybe because my career is in & around with a very large bunch of people that do face a highly elevated risk… My perception is quite different. That and I know from personal experience what good CCW or home defense training is and can accomplish. Does, in most cases.

It unfortunately doesn’t matter how frequent this is, since it’s highly publicized.

When perception flies in the face of the reality, it is the perception that needs to change. Or we are abandoning the facts.

357 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:55:39am

re: #350 Political Atheist

I support the admission of all the physical evidence there is, especially the physical evidence. I object to people dismissing that very real injury out of hand because of what they want the verdict to be. Then of course beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard of proof as it should be for long term big picture justice. Some cases will always go awry, one way or another.

Who is dismissing it? What I see people doing - and I’m one of them - is saying the injury says nothing beyond the fact Zimmerman was injured.

358 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:56:51am

re: #347 Vicious Babushka

Completely unrelated, but your olive pasta salad has been a huge hit for friends. I have played around with the recipe (adding more stuff based on what’s on hand and varying the spices) but everyone I have made it for (4 times since a week ago Friday!) has adored it.

I also like that it is so easy to make in someone else’s kitchen and so flexible based on their spice cabinet. This last time it was also made with vegan mayo and still came out just as fantastic.

359 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:57:00am

re: #350 Political Atheist

I support the admission of all the physical evidence there is, especially the physical evidence. I object to people dismissing that very real injury out of hand because of what they want the verdict to be. Then of course beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard of proof as it should be for long term big picture justice. Some cases will always go awry, one way or another.

I’ve got to say, this sounds an awful lot like saying that the head injury is proof that Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin.

I think that if Zimmerman provoked the fight then regardless of how the fight subsequently went for him he should be found guilty of murder*. Do you disagree?

* Note “should be found”, not “will be found”.

360 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:57:14am
361 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:57:30am

re: #353 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Beating a head into concrete from the superior position is beyond self defense. You can kill a person like that without meaning to. It’s no different than stepping on a neck really hard from the intent perspective of the guy taking the hits.

362 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:57:42am

re: #358 klys and whatnot

Completely unrelated, but your olive pasta salad has been a huge hit for friends. I have played around with the recipe (adding more stuff based on what’s on hand and varying the spices) but everyone I have made it for (4 times since a week ago Friday!) has adored it.

I also like that it is so easy to make in someone else’s kitchen and so flexible based on their spice cabinet. This last time it was also made with vegan mayo and still came out just as fantastic.

So glad you like it!

363 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:58:21am

re: #361 Political Atheist

Beating a head into concrete from the superior position is beyond self defense.

Presumably, then, shooting someone dead is also “beyond self defense”?

364 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:58:22am

re: #356 Political Atheist

Maybe because my career is in & around with a very large bunch of people that do face a highly elevated risk… My perception is quite different. That and I know from personal experience what good CCW or home defense training is and can accomplish. Does, in most cases.

Your perception isn’t different, because you clearly perceive that some people face elevated risk and actually need weapons. You know the reality, which is that the average person is never going to encounter a situation where they will need to defend themselves with a gun.

And you know that most states don’t require good CCW or home defense training to have a CCW license. In Florida and Texas, for example.

When perception flies in the face of the reality, it is the perception that needs to change. Or we are abandoning the facts.

Well, again— the main perception that flies in the face of reality here is the widespread perception that people need weapons for self-defense. But leaving that aside: I agree that the perception of CCW holders as vigilantes should change. And I think part of that is the gun community policing their own and helping to end the fetishization of guns.

365 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:58:56am

Because talking about immigration = damaging a candidate:

366 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 9:59:19am
367 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:00:05am
368 Targetpractice  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:00:33am

re: #365 Lidane

Because talking about immigration = damaging a candidate:

Remember he’s talking the GOP primaries, as in the party’s likely to blame him if reform fails and hate him if it succeeds because Obama will take credit for it.

369 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:00:49am

re: #365 Lidane

Because talking about immigration = damaging a candidate:

Yes. The GOP should listen to that idiot, King.

370 Stanghazi  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:00:52am

re: #360 Gus

And he has $. Only reason to deal with a toothache more than one hour is lack of $. imho

371 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:01:19am

re: #365 Lidane

Because talking about immigration = damaging a candidate:

It hurt Perry being relatively sane on said issue and it will hurt Rubio. The difference is King thinks that this is a good thing and I think it’s yet another sign of the GOP’s march to continued insanity.

372 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:01:47am

re: #361 Political Atheist

Beating a head into concrete from the superior position is beyond self defense. You can kill a person like that without meaning to. It’s no different than stepping on a neck really hard from the intent perspective of the guy taking the hits.

I’m sorry, I really don’t know what you mean. I’ve been knocked down and had my head whacked and I didn’t feel that it would be legitimate of me to simply kill the other person.

You really feel this way? Even if you started the fight, if the other guy gets on you and knocks your head into the ground you feel you’ve the legitimate right to kill him?

373 kirkspencer  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:02:03am

re: #361 Political Atheist

Beating a head into concrete from the superior position is beyond self defense. You can kill a person like that without meaning to. It’s no different than stepping on a neck really hard from the intent perspective of the guy taking the hits.

The injury, as I recall, could also have come from falling backward onto the grass and (light) debris, which would also match the grass stains on the back of his jacket. The only evidence we have for “beating the head” is, again, Zimmerman’s testimony. Once more, Zimmerman’s truthfulness is critical here, and if the prosecution can impeach his testimony it’s devastating.

374 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:02:24am

re: #370 Stanghazi

And he has $. Only reason to deal with a toothache more than one hour is lack of $. imho

I still have to make an appointment. Yes, I have several gold medals in procrastinating.

375 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:02:29am

Public service announcement: if you are sending e-mail to a large group of people and ask for an RSVP back, do the smart thing and address the list of recipients as BCC.

The number of people who still don’t understand the difference between reply and reply all (and default to the second) makes my inbox sad.

376 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:02:51am

re: #365 Lidane

Rubio’s plan is insufficiently cruel.

377 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:03:05am

re: #372 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It also makes no sense as an argument because it implies that if Martin had in fact killed Zimmerman by fighting back, that would be a punishable offense.

Which then makes it OK for Zimmerman to kill Martin by fighting back.

It’s pretzel logic.

378 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:04:22am

re: #375 klys and whatnot

Public service announcement: if you are sending e-mail to a large group of people and ask for an RSVP back, do the smart thing and address the list of recipients as BCC.

The number of people who still don’t understand the difference between reply and reply all (and default to the second) makes my inbox sad.

My favorite is when multiple people then start spamming the list by saying “please don’t reply to all on these messages”, and then the meta-admonitions that this engenders.

379 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:05:45am

re: #351 Charles Johnson

I see Robert Stacy McCain is still obsessively hate-tweeting at me.

I still have that weirdo 807 Tweeting me from time to time. On a lark I searched my Twitter name and there it was. I think they made a blog post about my FOAD comment to that one troll the other day. Talk about lame. Blogging about me of all people. Too much.

GUS802 HAS A HERNIA AND A TOOTH ACHE, HATES HIS SISTER AND SPENDS ALL HIS MONEY ON GIN AND DOPE!

Derp.

380 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:05:48am

re: #359 iossarian

Depends on too may things we do not know really. Could well be they were trying to kill one another at the end moments.

Crap, gotta reboot our system…

BBIAB

381 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:05:55am

re: #378 iossarian

My favorite is when multiple people then start spamming the list by saying “please don’t reply to all on these messages”, and then the meta-admonitions that this engenders.

Oh god. This isn’t even a mailing list. But I have been through that iteration on multiple occasions.

I suppose it’s good to know that all these people won’t be able to make the bridal shower that I found out I was invited to on this side of the country on Friday. Shower is Sunday.

I sort of wonder if I am going to get home and find an invitation to either it and/or the wedding in my mail pile.

382 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:06:46am

I hate gin and haven’t had any weed since the end of 2012. Derp.

383 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:06:55am

OUTRAGE!

384 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:07:00am

re: #379 Gus

I still have that weirdo 807 Tweeting me from time to time. On a lark I searched my Twitter name and there it was. I think they made a blog post about my FOAD comment to that one troll the other day. Talk about lame. Blogging about me of all people. Too much.

Derp.

807 is blocked but it obsessively responds to other people they include me in the conversation.

385 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:07:54am

re: #382 Gus

I hate gin and haven’t had any weed since the end of 2012. Derp.

I’ve been making gin fizzes for people recently, old-school with egg-whites, using an ice planet instead of cubes.

386 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:08:55am

re: #385 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’ve been making gin fizzes for people recently, old-school with egg-whites, using an ice planet instead of cubes.

Yeah, it’s good for mixing. But straight gin I can’t handle. :D

387 darthstar  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:09:42am

re: #338 Gus

Pics of Trayvon smoking dope can’t be used in court, but they can be shown on TV and the internet until the trial to help justify the homicide. #fuckers

388 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:10:09am

re: #386 Gus

Yeah, it’s good for mixing. But straight gin I can’t handle. :D

I like gin and never drink it straight.

Of course, if liking something straight is the definition then I hate all alcohol.

389 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:10:27am

re: #386 Gus

Yeah, it’s good for mixing. But straight gin I can’t handle. :D

I had an Aviation last week. Looked better than it tasted.

Straight/mostly gin drinks are good for getting wasted in a hurry but not much else.

A nice G&T on the other hand…

390 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:10:33am

re: #384 Vicious Babushka

Derp.

807 is blocked but it obsessively responds to other people they include me in the conversation.

I don’t get it. I tried to understand years ago but I gave up. How that guy/gal or whatever can be so obsessed with me. It’s so freaking weird. Blogging about me too is so freaking psycho.

391 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:11:59am

re: #389 iossarian

I had an Aviation last week. Looked better than it tasted.

Straight/mostly gin drinks are good for getting wasted in a hurry but not much else.

A nice G&T on the other hand…

Gin’s never done anything for me. Now a good whiskey or bourbon on the other hand. Got some Tyrconnell based on the recommendation of the liquor store owner when I was in Brooklyn last weekend, that was excellent.

392 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:12:21am

re: #386 Gus

Yeah, it’s good for mixing. But straight gin I can’t handle. :D

Straight gin was originally the lowest form of alcohol, the juniper berries to mask the shitty taste.

en.wikipedia.org

393 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:12:27am

re: #282 Gus

…and the WH knew about McCain’s trip to Syria.

McCain Flew
White House Knew
Benghazi 182!

394 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:12:58am

re: #383 Lidane

Actually it was Chris Christie who won the bear. They just handed it to Obama.

395 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:13:17am

Alex Jones Shows His Homophobic Side By Targeting Rachel Maddow For Being A Lesbian (VIDEO)

Read more: addictinginfo.org

396 iossarian  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:13:35am

re: #394 stabby

Actually it was Chris Christie who won the bear. They just handed it to Obama.

A bit like when Romney won the election but they handed it to Obama.

397 blueraven  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:13:56am

re: #374 Gus

I still have to make an appointment. Yes, I have several gold medals in procrastinating.

Just make one now…most dentists that are worth a damn will see someone with a toothache asap.

398 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:14:33am

re: #396 iossarian

A bit like when Romney won the election but they handed it to Obama.

Remember, the polls were skewed!!!!!

399 wrenchwench  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:15:08am

re: #384 Vicious Babushka

Derp.

807 is blocked but it obsessively responds to other people they include me in the conversation.

I retweeted a guy and he started getting trolled by 807. It’s like having gum stuck to the bottom of one’s shoe, it follows you and leaves a little mess.

400 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:15:49am

BREAKING! GUS802 SAID SOMETHING AT LGF.

YEAH, HURR HURR. I HATE THAT GUY.

YEAH, GUS802 SUCKS. HE’S A SYCOPHANT. HURR HURR.

401 klys and whatnot  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:16:04am

re: #391 HappyWarrior

Gin’s never done anything for me. Now a good whiskey or bourbon on the other hand. Got some Tyrconnell based on the recommendation of the liquor store owner when I was in Brooklyn last weekend, that was excellent.

re: #392 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Straight gin was originally the lowest form of alcohol, the juniper berries to mask the shitty taste.

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, these days good gin can be utterly fantastic. My current favorite is out of Long Table Distillery in Vancouver, Canada. My bottle is from their second batch ever and I need to ration it out until I can convince one of the local shops to order it in. The Botanist is another good one.

The fun part about gin (as opposed to vodka) is that you can actually explore a whole world of flavors and still call it gin. Mmmm. Set it against the background of a consistent tonic and just try random things.

402 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:16:18am

re: #398 Dr. Matt

Remember, the polls were skewed!!!!!

Of course, I unerstand how Obama stole it…people go out and vote for the candidate who is ahead in the opinion polls. Control the polling, and you control the electoral process.

403 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:16:41am

I can’t drink gin anymore. Or most hard liquor, really. I’ll have the occasional Manhattan or Old Fashioned when I go out, but mostly I stick to hard ciders or wine.

404 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:16:43am

re: #395 Dr. Matt

Alex Jones Shows His Homophobic Side By Targeting Rachel Maddow For Being A Lesbian (VIDEO)

Read more: addictinginfo.org

I think Alex Jones is the last guy who should be commenting on the looks of others. And really Janet Reno?

405 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:17:28am

re: #394 stabby

Actually it was Chris Christie who won the bear. They just handed it to Obama.

Yeah, I know. That’s made clear in the story.

I’m sure the usual idiots will derp about Obama accepting a handout from a Republican or something.

406 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:17:33am

re: #398 Dr. Matt

Remember, the polls were skewed!!!!!

Stacy McCain is hate-tweeting about you.

407 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:17:51am

Wingnut heads sploding over this Tweet.

408 Lidane  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:18:31am

On a completely unrealted note, the new Daft Punk album is awesome. Definitely making this slow, dragging work day fly by.

409 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:18:54am

HAHA WIN

410 Dr. Matt  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:18:58am

re: #406 Vicious Babushka

Stacy McCain is hate-tweeting about you.

She needs to try harder. I don’t feel hated yet.

411 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:19:47am

re: #405 Lidane

Maybe explains the disgusted the look on his face. He didn’t make his tosses but Christie made his.

412 BongCrodny  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:20:22am

re: #407 Vicious Babushka

Wingnut heads sploding over this Tweet.

There must be a couple hundred reasons not to vote for Christie should he ever choose to run for the Presidency — but that tie has got to be in the top three.

413 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:20:24am

re: #411 stabby

Maybe explains the disgusted the look on his face. He didn’t make his tosses but Christie made his.

Christie is a better tosser than Obama?

414 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:20:26am
415 stabby  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:21:13am

re: #413 Sol Berdinowitz

must. not. down. ding. pun.

416 FemNaziBitch  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:23:50am

ah! CAUGHT MYSELF

I was about to hit the “place your order” button on an Amazon.com purchase and remembered I hadn’t come to the page from LGF! So, I dutifully brought up the LGF front page and clicked the Amazon.com button on the left side and then proceeded with my order.

I seem to have gotten out of the habit. Sorry Charles.

You?

417 FemNaziBitch  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:25:20am

re: #395 Dr. Matt

Alex Jones Shows His Homophobic Side By Targeting Rachel Maddow For Being A Lesbian (VIDEO)

Read more: addictinginfo.org


THE HORROR!

418 FemNaziBitch  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:26:13am

re: #387 darthstar

Pics of Trayvon smoking dope can’t be used in court, but they can be shown on TV and the internet until the trial to help justify the homicide. #fuckers

IIRC, the cops didn’t ask for drug testing on Trayvon or his killer.

Bet they wish they had.

419 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:28:20am

re: #417 FemNaziBitch


THE HORROR!

Yeah. Lesbians! Oh my! You know, lesbians like Dick Cheney’s daughter. Or gays like Matt Drudge. Righties can’t seem to make up their mind about things.

420 Gus  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:29:58am

One minute they’re like, “yeah, as a libertarian Republican pot should be legalized!” Ten minutes later they’re like “that guy smokes weed so he’s a dirty hippie!”

421 HappyWarrior  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:31:12am

re: #420 Gus

One minute they’re like, “yeah, as a libertarian Republican pot should be legalized!” Ten minutes later they’re like “that guy smokes weed so he’s a dirty hippie!”

Yeah I don’t get that. But people are fucking stupid when it comes to that shit.

422 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 10:35:11am

re: #364 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The perception has another darker aspect. Some thoughtless city folk like to look down on those southern and or back country types. The kind that actually hunt for the freezer by necessity, and have rifles or pistols for pest/varmint/wildlife control.

EDIT-Totally forgot to include- CCW and gun ownership crosses over in many peoples minds as far as gun culture perception goes.

423 Political Atheist  Tue, May 28, 2013 11:13:32am

re: #372 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Back from an office wide re-set/reboot. Hate that!

You have minimized my scenario well short of what I meant. The video from the PD investigation shows grass and a concrete walkway. So quite possibly his head was against the concrete, and his jacket on the grass. If Trayvon was beating his head on that concrete, fear of death or grave injury is quite correct, no matter how you got there.

If the jury sees that as a serious possibility it might mean reasonable doubt on murder, and guilty of a lesser charge perhaps. Not hard to imagine, not what I would want to see.

424 Stoatly  Tue, May 28, 2013 12:51:55pm

re: #392 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Straight gin was originally the lowest form of alcohol, the juniper berries to mask the shitty taste.

en.wikipedia.org

Beer Street and Gin Lane

Hogarth engraved Beer Street to show a happy city drinking the ‘good’ beverage of English beer, versus Gin Lane which showed the effects of drinking gin which, as a harder liquor, caused more problems for society.

People are shown as healthy, happy and prosperous in Beer Street, while in Gin Lane they are scrawny, lazy and careless.

The woman at the front of Gin Lane who lets her baby fall to its death, echoes the tale of Judith Dufour who strangled her baby so she could sell its clothes for gin money.

The prints were published in support of what would become the Gin Act 1751.

425 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 1:15:53pm

re: #422 Political Atheist

The perception has another darker aspect. Some thoughtless city folk like to look down on those southern and or back country types. The kind that actually hunt for the freezer by necessity, and have rifles or pistols for pest/varmint/wildlife control.

You know, there are cities in the South. And I have no clue what this has to do with what I said. Can you explain?

426 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, May 28, 2013 1:17:51pm

re: #423 Political Atheist

Back from an office wide re-set/reboot. Hate that!

You have minimized my scenario well short of what I meant. The video from the PD investigation shows grass and a concrete walkway. So quite possibly his head was against the concrete, and his jacket on the grass. If Trayvon was beating his head on that concrete, fear of death or grave injury is quite correct, no matter how you got there.

If he was ‘beating’ it, sure. If he had grabbed his hair and rapped his skull, no.

Let’s go back to my question. If you started a fight with someone, and then they knocked you down, got on top of you, and had your head on a concrete path, and they whacked your head into the concrete, would you feel you had the ethical and legal right to kill them?


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