NPR: Digging the Depth of the NSA Phone Data Program

Brought to you by the Patriot Act
US News • Views: 22,601

MP3 Audio

Here’s a very good All Things Considered episode with lots of valid information about the NSA Phone Data Program.

The White House and lawmakers are defending a secret program that collects data on phone calls made by ordinary Americans. It was revealed Wednesday that the National Security Agency obtained data on calls from Verizon, including calls made locally, inside the United States and calls between the U.S. and overseas. Officials defend the program as necessary for fighting terrorism. Robert Siegel speaks with NPR’s Dina Temple-Raston about the program, its scope and civil liberties implications.

Jump to bottom

438 comments
1 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:31:50pm

Fighting terrorism my ass.
I didn’t accept this crap under Bush and I sure as hell won’t accept it under Obama.

2 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:33:19pm

I have the question for the advocates in the admin or at NSA-By what measure do you prove we still need these measures formerly thought of as extraordinary and temporary? A decade into our best efforts at reducing the threat.

3 freetoken  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:35:51pm

re: #2 Political Atheist

I only defend the administration in that they appear to be faithfully carrying out the law, exactly as they swore to do.

4 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:36:39pm
5 darthstar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:39:41pm

Boehner killed the scandal before it started.

politicususa.com

6 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:40:22pm

Here is what my phone calls consist of: 1. I get calls trying to sell me stuff I do not want. I am on the Do Not Call list. 2. Local Union DC 33 trying to get me to go to rallies during work hours or on weekends. 3. My dad. I get a laundry list of what is wrong with him and then he asks me what is going on in my life. Now if the NSA thinks this will help stop terrorism they are barking up the wrong tree.

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:44:18pm

This NPR show has some important context on exactly what info is being collected and how it’s being used.

8 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:45:02pm

re: #2 Political Atheist

I have the question for the advocates in the admin or at NSA-By what measure do you prove we still need these measures formerly thought of as extraordinary and temporary? A decade into our best efforts at reducing the threat.

If you stop clicking your fingers the elephants come back.

9 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:45:43pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Yes it does. That is one of many reasons why I support my local PBS station.:)

10 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:46:17pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

This NPR show has some important context on exactly what info is being collected and how it’s being used.

Agreed. If it is really being used as advertised (i.e., the all-encompassing data sweep is basically to preserve information for posterity, and further specific court orders are required to actually use it in any way), my concerns decrease significantly.

11 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:46:59pm

I still don’t like it…

12 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:47:22pm

re: #11 Varek Raith

I agree.

13 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:47:29pm

re: #5 darthstar

Boehner killed the scandal before it started.

politicususa.com

Shorter Boehner: “Yeah, we dreamt it up, yeah we voted for it, yeah we’ve reauthorized it again and again, but now Obama has to cover our asses by taking the heat!”

14 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:47:50pm

I support the president.

15 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:48:21pm

re: #11 Varek Raith

I still don’t like it…

It is something that is very easy to abuse.

16 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:49:44pm

re: #15 EPR-radar

It is something that is very easy to abuse.

Relax—abusing it would be illegal, like bombing Cambodia or something.

17 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:50:09pm

re: #16 Decatur Deb

Relax—abusing it would be illegal, like bombing Cambodia or something.

Or using the CIA/FBI against domestic enemies…

18 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:51:28pm

re: #10 EPR-radar

Agreed. If it is really being used as advertised (i.e., the all-encompassing data sweep is basically to preserve information for posterity, and further specific court orders are required to actually use it in any way), my concerns decrease significantly.

That’s cool, I too trust this President. But about the next, and the next after that? Some of us here have seen a few more than others. :-) Life is short, but it’s real wide.

19 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:52:28pm

re: #14 Gus

I support the president.

COMMIE!!111ty

20 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:52:59pm

re: #18 Political Atheist

That’s cool, I too trust this President. But about the next, and the next after that? Some of us here have seen a few more than others. :-) Life is short, but it’s real wide.

Oh, come on. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?!

21 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:53:17pm
22 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:54:13pm

re: #18 Political Atheist

That’s cool, I too trust this President. But about the next, and the next after that? Some of us here have seen a few more than others. :-) Life is short, but it’s real wide.

Said during Bush, and here we are.

We are just used to it now.

23 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:54:36pm

re: #21 bratwurst

Funny joke, but this must be in place for all the telcos. It has been SOP for 6+ years, apparently.

24 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:54:48pm

re: #21 bratwurst

Well you know like with Verizon the call goes through. //

25 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:57:19pm

Next call, I’m going to randomly say, “NSA SUCKS!”
Data mine that!
/

26 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 6:57:58pm

re: #2 Political Atheist

I have the question for the advocates in the admin or at NSA-By what measure do you prove we still need these measures formerly thought of as extraordinary and temporary? A decade into our best efforts at reducing the threat.

We never needed them in the first place and we’ll never get rid of them. Now that the tech and software exists? It can either be known - as it is now with the rubber stamp FISA courts - or it can be a black project that we know nothing about. This way is a tiny bit better.

But everyone needs to face facts - you do not have privacy and haven’t for a very long time.

28 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:00:05pm

re: #25 Varek Raith

Next call, I’m going to randomly say, “NSA SUCKS!”
Data mine that!
/

New game: In a single phone conversation, mention as many obscure code words as you can think of. Bonus points if the white vans or black helicopters show up to take you away.

29 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:00:39pm

re: #25 Varek Raith

Next call, I’m going to randomly say, “NSA SUCKS!”
Data mine that!
/

Our DoD community in Israel knew our phones were bugged—our game was to guess by how many parties. We were discouraged from getting ‘creative’.

30 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:00:40pm

re: #28 thedopefishlives

rofl.

31 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:00:50pm

re: #26 William Barnett-Lewis

We never needed them in the first place and we’ll never get rid of them. Now that the tech and software exists? It can either be known - as it is now with the rubber stamp FISA courts - or it can be a black project that we know nothing about. This way is a tiny bit better.

But everyone needs to face facts - you do not have privacy and haven’t for a very long time.

The only thing that gives people any measure of privacy at this point is that computers don’t have the raw processing power to handle the volume of call data produced at any one time. But that’s a matter of technology and time.

32 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:01:03pm

re: #26 William Barnett-Lewis

We never needed them in the first place and we’ll never get rid of them. Now that the tech and software exists? It can either be known - as it is now with the rubber stamp FISA courts - or it can be a black project that we know nothing about. This way is a tiny bit better.

But everyone needs to face facts - you do not have privacy and haven’t for a very long time.

Agreed that we’ll most likely never get rid of this. No administration will want to take the risk of backing off on this and having a terrorist attack happen shortly thereafter. 50+ years in the political desert would be the price paid.

33 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:03:28pm

re: #32 EPR-radar

Agreed that we’ll most likely never get rid of this. No administration will want to take the risk of backing off on this and having a terrorist attack happen shortly thereafter. 50+ years in the political desert would be the price paid.

And if a sudden outbreak of government honesty did stop such snooping, the population still couldn’t really know that it had stopped. The genie is out and the bottle is broken.

34 krypto  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:06:46pm

I feel a lot more threatened by the number of telemarketers that have my telephone number and data to use in targetting me with their annoying intrusions than I do by the government having the phone numbers I called in a huge data base, let alone one that they aren’t even authorized to snoop through without a court order based on probable cause in the specific case they’re investigating.

35 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:07:13pm

Bryan is really running with “I know you are but what am I”

36 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:07:28pm

re: #28 thedopefishlives

New game: In a single phone conversation, mention as many obscure code words as you can think of. Bonus points if the white vans or black helicopters show up to take you away.

Reminds me when I stayed at a resort hotel for a weekend a year ago. In the beach town “Pacific Beach” known for its young partiers.

One of the wi-fi’s that came up was FBI Van #11

I think it was just someone being funny.

37 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:07:34pm

Tangential O/T
Had Verizon put FIOS at the shop where I do those gold/ jewelry videos. Great experience everything just worked. Had AT&T put “fiber” at the main office. Total cluster frak. The installer did not have the order right for static IP. Nor did he have a clue about how to configure the AT&T modem to let the internet into a sonicwall. Then he bailed leaving us with nothing. No access to the gold market sites the rest of the day.

Bringing it back on topic I think we can and should pressure our ISP’s to fight this stuff in an insistent way. Fully document the demands from the NSA and the installation of black boxes. Keep it all for the congressional review that will someday occur.

38 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:08:05pm

re: #33 Decatur Deb

And if a sudden outbreak of government honesty did stop such snooping, the population still couldn’t really know that it had stopped. The genie is out and the bottle is broken.

Ben Franklin had useful thoughts on the subject of trading essential liberties for temporary safety. It’s a pity the post 9/11 US fear-gasm made Franklin’s position a distinctly minority point of view.

39 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:09:11pm

re: #34 krypto

I feel a lot more threatened by the number of telemarketers that have my telephone number and data to use in targetting me with their annoying intrusions than I do by the government having the phone numbers I called in a huge data base, let alone one that they aren’t even authorized to snoop through without a court order based on probable cause in the specific case they’re investigating.

Telemarketers have autodialers that call random numbers until somebody picks up. If you are on the DNC list the autodialer is supposed to be programmed to exclude your number, but there are some sleazy operators who just callbomb.

They don’t have more info on you than the government.

40 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:09:38pm

re: #36 Stanghazi

Reminds me when I stayed at a resort hotel for a weekend a year ago. In the beach town “Pacific Beach” known for its young partiers.

One of the wi-fi’s that came up was FBI Van #11

I think it was just someone being funny.

A similar ID is showing in my list right now (3 variations, actually). I’m guessing it’s some kind of reddit kiddie crap.

41 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:10:17pm
42 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:10:33pm

re: #40 Decatur Deb

A similar ID is showing in my list right now (3 variations, actually). I’m guessing it’s some kind of reddit kiddie crap.

It’s one of their favorite things to do. Then they go around and take pictures of the humorous lists of wireless network names.

43 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:12:32pm

re: #37 Political Atheist

Tangential O/T
Had Verizon put FIOS at the shop where I do those gold/ jewelry videos. Great experience everything just worked. Had AT&T put “fiber” at the main office. Total cluster frak. The installer did not have the order right for static IP. Nor did he have a clue about how to configure the AT&T modem to let the internet into a sonicwall. Then he bailed leaving us with nothing. No access to the gold market sites the rest of the day.

Bringing it back on topic I think we can and should pressure our ISP’s to fight this stuff in an insistent way. Fully document the demands from the NSA and the installation of black boxes. Keep it all for the congressional review that will someday occur.

It wouldn’t surprise me if emails etc. were already being handled the same way as the telco metadata. If so, the ISPs would have no idea what going on. The Feds get a copy of everything from the ISPs, and if later on the Feds want to go into detail, they would get a court order to allow them to go through the information they already have (i.e., no need to bother the ISP again).

44 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:13:51pm

For one. The government doesn’t have enough personnel to “spy” on every American. It would also be next to impossible to upload, save, and analyze ever single call in an almost real time basis. Metadata is a basic form of intelligence gather which if Feinstein is correct is only used as evidence rather than prevention. There is no grand big brother giant head watching our every move. If this were true they would have nabbed the Boston Marathon bombers beforehand.

45 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:14:18pm

Ha, I just stumbled upon Godzilla, King of the Monsters - TCM 1956 Raymond Burr is the ‘newsman’ reporting it. In Japan.

woo

46 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:15:03pm

re: #36 Stanghazi

re: #40 Decatur Deb

One wi-fi in my area is showing xfinitywifi. It is the only unlocked one on my list.

47 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:15:56pm

re: #44 Gus

For one. The government doesn’t have enough personnel to “spy” on every American. It would also be next to impossible to upload, save, and analyze ever single call in an almost real time basis. Metadata is a basic form of intelligence gather which if Feinstein is correct is only used as evidence rather than prevention. There is no grand big brother giant head watching our every move. If this were true they would have nabbed the Boston Marathon bombers beforehand.

What you’re describing is “Security through Obscurity”. My kid, who is on the commercial end of this issue, says you’re right, for now.

48 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:16:18pm

It could be used as prevention but only if you have known terrorists suspects’ phone number in the data base. So if you look through a massive amount of phone calls locate the terrorist’s phone number and see who’s calling them. But they’re not dumb either and it’s pretty easy to get a throw away “no name” phone.

49 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:16:20pm

re: #44 Gus

For one. The government doesn’t have enough personnel to “spy” on every American. It would also be next to impossible to upload, save, and analyze ever single call in an almost real time basis. Metadata is a basic form of intelligence gather which if Feinstein is correct is only used as evidence rather than prevention. There is no grand big brother giant head watching our every move. If this were true they would have nabbed the Boston Marathon bombers beforehand.

It was also mentioned upthread (perhaps by you?) that the raw computing power needed to process the staggering volume of data simply does not exist. I don’t care how much we don’t know about the government’s computing installations, that kind of firepower would have made its presence known before now.

50 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:16:57pm

re: #38 EPR-radar

Ben Franklin had useful thoughts on the subject of trading essential liberties for temporary safety. It’s a pity the post 9/11 US fear-gasm made Franklin’s position a distinctly minority point of view.

At least then it was understandable. And they did put that sunset in. They tried to keep it temporary.

51 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:17:35pm

re: #47 Decatur Deb

What you’re describing is “Security through Obscurity”. My kid, who is on the commercial end of this issue, says you’re right, for now.

The panopticon will always fail, because guards get bored, start jerking off, the technicians splice in the big fight, etc. etc.

The only perfect surveillance would be done by AI, real AI, not just expert systems. And if we’ve got real AI, we would have solved most of the problems this sort of surveillance is supposed to detect, anyway.

52 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:17:54pm

Also. It’s not like some terrorist is going to say, “I know, I’ll get the Cadillac Verizon deal and use my credit card to pay for it.” Then use said phone to discuss your plans. That would be pretty dumb.

53 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:18:07pm

re: #46 PhillyPretzel

re: #40 Decatur Deb

One wi-fi in my area is showing xfinitywifi. It is the only unlocked one on my list.

Mine is unlocked, sort of a commie open-source thing.

54 freetoken  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:21:16pm

re: #41 Vicious Babushka

ECHELON

shhhhh….. ℛↂↂℳ ⑥❹➀ …

55 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:21:57pm

re: #54 freetoken

shhhhh….. ℛↂↂℳ ⑥❹➀ …

Somewhere, deep in the bowels of some cold and dark server room, the words “TARGET ACQUIRED” have just flashed across a console.

56 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:22:44pm

re: #51 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The panopticon will always fail, because guards get bored, start jerking off, the technicians splice in the big fight, etc. etc.

The only perfect surveillance would be done by AI, real AI, not just expert systems. And if we’ve got real AI, we would have solved most of the problems this sort of surveillance is supposed to detect, anyway.

That’s why ‘for now’. In time we’ll have systems where most of the humans are janitors.

57 krypto  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:22:52pm

re: #39 Vicious Babushka

Telemarketers have autodialers that call random numbers until somebody picks up. If you are on the DNC list the autodialer is supposed to be programmed to exclude your number, but there are some sleazy operators who just callbomb.

They don’t have more info on you than the government.

======================
WRONG!!! VERY, VERY WRONG.

Yes, they do use predictive dialers, to dial numbers in a list, and NOT usually randomly. The telemarketing industry is very heavily into collecting personal data. Very few of the calls are just random.

The random calls were the least likely to prove successful, and the “direct marketers” always knew that. All sorts of businesses were collecting and reselling their information.

Dunn and Bradstreet was very heavily into collecting and reselling that information to telemarketers, and I once caught them red handed at it in my own case after I had to register with them as a business.

About the worst thing you can ever do is participate in a “marketing survey” or fill out one of those warranty registration cards where you are asked for all sorts of personal information unrelated to just needing to register yourself as an owner — that data was always sold for telemarketing lists.

Try typing in “marketing lists” into Google to get an idea of just how extensively the telemarketing industry collects data on everyone.

58 Kragar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:24:39pm

Every Tea bagger complaining about this is a hypocritical knob gobbler

59 jaunte  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:27:00pm
60 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:28:22pm

re: #57 krypto

======================
WRONG!!! VERY, VERY WRONG.

Throttle down, big rig.

61 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:28:29pm

re: #59 jaunte

It is strange for a top secret slide deck to be plastered with corporate logos. That just seems bizarre to me.

62 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:29:07pm

re: #59 jaunte

Sure is fugly. Although it might look better than Drudge.

63 jaunte  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:29:20pm

re: #61 EPR-radar

Our government could use better designers.

64 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:29:47pm

re: #57 krypto

======================
WRONG!!! VERY, VERY WRONG.

Yes, they do use predictive dialers, to dial numbers in a list, and NOT usually randomly. The telemarketing industry is very heavily into collecting personal data. Very few of the calls are just random.

The random calls were the least likely to prove successful, and the “direct marketers” always knew that. All sorts of businesses were collecting and reselling their information.

Dunn and Bradstreet was very heavily into collecting and reselling that information to telemarketers, and I once caught them red handed at it in my own case after I had to register with them as a business.

About the worst thing you can ever do is participate in a “marketing survey” or fill out one of those warranty registration cards where you are asked for all sorts of personal information unrelated to just needing to register yourself as an owner — that data was always sold for telemarketing lists.

Try typing in “marketing lists” into Google to get an idea of just how extensively the telemarketing industry collects data on everyone.

I work at a call center (B2B) and we do ask customers to participate in a survey after their issue is resolved. However THEY CALL US FIRST and provide their data so that we can solve their problem. This data is corporate confidential and is not sold or shared with other vendors.

How many people are there who will answer the phone and not hang up as soon as they hear it’s a telemarketing robocall?

65 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:30:53pm

Tokyo is toast!

66 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:31:31pm

re: #65 Stanghazi

Tokyo is toast!

Again?

//

67 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:32:00pm

re: #63 jaunte

Our government could use better designers.

The cheezy graphics are the best argument for its authenticity. If a sincere young staff officer did a really pretty PP briefing in our shop, it was a running joke to meet it with a chorus of “Ooohh, Ahhhh”.

68 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:32:05pm

re: #65 Stanghazi

Tokyo is toast!

Did Godzilla make grilled cheese sandwiches again?

69 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:32:06pm

re: #65 Stanghazi

Tokyo is toast!

Tokyo, New York, and London are cinders.

70 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:33:25pm

re: #63 jaunte

Our government could use better designers.

Government web programmers are paid $46/hr.

71 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:33:37pm

What do I hate about the Patriot Act stuff? Well, in 2011 I drove nearby Edwards AFB. Anyway, those days of being able to get a day pass at an AFB are long gone. You have to apply for a tour and there’s something like a 3 month waiting period.

72 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:35:04pm

re: #68 Vicious Babushka

Did Godzilla make grilled cheese sandwiches again?

L O L

73 krypto  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:35:25pm

re: #64 Vicious Babushka

That is an entirely different animal than the kind of telemarketers I am talking about, who make the unsolicited calls. The ones who are handling the calls because people call them, or because people actually want to hear from them aren’t the problem.

I have had to deal with extreme calling marketing pests in the past and looked into the problem very carefully. The practice of those kind of telemakers was to get the numbers to call from companies that collected marketing data on who to target, and collecting that marketing data has long been a major business operation.

I don’t even hang up - I just don’t answer the call unless the caller id shows it to be from someone I would want to hear from. Voice mail is good enough for everyone else. If it is important, they will leave a message.

I’m not seeing the logic of what you are saying though — if everyone hangs up on a purely random call, why is THAT an argument supporting the claim that telemarketers are choosing to make the calls randomly, rather than mostly using targetted marketing lists as I am saying usually happens with the telepest type of calls?

74 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:36:57pm

Apple: Never heard of the program

Uh Huh. You also call the dude behind the counter at your store a genius.

75 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:38:08pm

re: #73 krypto

Yeah, I tend to do a bit of call screening as well. I also have an “Ignored” contact on my phone that has no ringtone and no vibrate alert. If they annoy me enough, they get added to that contact and then the only notification I get is if I get a voice mail, much later when I actually check my phone.

76 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:39:13pm

re: #59 jaunte

Okay, this program supposedly only costs $20 million per year?

Now that’s the most unrealistic thing I’ve seen yet.

77 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:40:11pm

I never expected the NSA to be bad ass said absolutely no one.

78 jaunte  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:41:34pm
79 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:43:02pm

I look at it this way. Even if there wasn’t a Patriot Act or FISA courts, I would still expect the NSA to be doing what is worthy of “No Such Agency.”

80 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:43:36pm
81 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:44:29pm

re: #61 EPR-radar

It is strange for a top secret slide deck to be plastered with corporate logos. That just seems bizarre to me.

Your government paid for by.. these people,


Could be worse “Operation Iraqi Freedom, brought to you by Pepsi!”

82 jaunte  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:44:56pm

re: #79 Gus

39°6′18″N 76°44′29″W

Uh oh.

83 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:45:56pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Shorter Boehner: “Yeah, we dreamt it up, yeah we voted for it, yeah we’ve reauthorized it again and again, but now Obama has to cover our asses by taking the heat!”

Obama signed at least one of those reauthorizations, and this action happened entirely under his watch, so its not fair to go after John Boehner for declining to go after President Obama. He’s not doing wrong, so cut him a break (and that goes for Obama too).

84 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:46:15pm

re: #82 jaunte

39°6′18″N 76°44′29″W

Uh oh.

Gold?

85 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:46:48pm

Ah. Army intelligence.

86 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:48:19pm

re: #61 EPR-radar

It is strange for a top secret slide deck to be plastered with corporate logos. That just seems bizarre to me.

They already pay for a great deal of the political classes campaign bills, so they really should be there.

87 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:49:40pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Obama signed at least one of those reauthorizations, and this action happened entirely under his watch, so its not fair to go after John Boehner for declining to go after President Obama. He’s not doing wrong, so cut him a break (and that goes for Obama too).

PBO has said, “I got this.”

88 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:52:08pm
89 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:52:10pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

They already pay for a great deal of the political classes campaign bills, so they really should be there.

This is apparently a slide deck with customers as the audience, so it may not have been briefed to political appointees.

90 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:52:20pm

Night Lizardim.

91 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:54:20pm

Next: Creature from the Black Lagoon

92 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:55:05pm

GOP before Obama; “If you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to worry about.”

GOP now; “OUR LIBERTIES ARE UNDER ATTACK!”

All I wanted was consistency.
But noooo.

93 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:55:07pm
94 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:56:03pm

re: #65 Stanghazi

Tokyo is toast!

Mothra baby!

95 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:56:06pm

At least we aren’t being completely left in the dark I suppose.

96 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:57:23pm

re: #91 Stanghazi

Next: Creature from the Black Lagoon

Beware of the finned one!
I trust you are watching the ‘50’s ones, and not remakes!

97 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:57:24pm

While Andrew C. McCarthy of National Review opens his piece with an attack on Obama, his main thrust is actually that the Washington Post overreacted. I’m starting with the second paragraph:

The Washington Post publishes a wildly exaggerated report this morning about the government’s collection of telephone records for national security purposes. Mind you, I said collection of telephone records, not wiretapping of telephone conversations, a critical distinction. The story sensationally proclaims that the National Security Agency (NSA) “appears to be collecting the telephone records of tens of millions” of Americans - records of cross-border as well as domestic calls.

With stories swirling around about the Obama administration siccing the IRS on the Tea Party and abusively spying on journalists, this revelation obviously strikes a disturbing chord. But then, as we read further, we learn that the telephone record gathering is proceeding under court orders, and that the surveillance actually goes back to 2006.

The Post has a propensity to repeat uncritically the hysterical claims of anti-anti-terrorism activists at outfits like the Brennan Center (“This is a truly stunning revelation,” shrieks one Brennan official). In truth, though, there is nothing new or groundbreaking about the surveillance in question. The Post solves this inconvenience by underscoring that the record-collection is happening under … wait for it … the Patriot Act - two words that not only roil Bush-deranged Democrats but also make some factions of the Tea Party see red.

Here is what they don’t tell you. Telephone record information (e.g., the numbers dialed and duration of calls) is not and has never been protected by the Fourth Amendment. The Supreme Court held as much in its 1979 Smith v. Maryland decision. Understand: the phone record information at issue here is very different from the content of telephone conversations. Because the latter involve higher privacy expectations, they are heavily regulated under not only the Fourth Amendment but both Title III of the federal penal code and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Under these laws, the government is not permitted to access communications content absent court authorization based on probable cause either that a crime has been committed or that the surveillance target is an agent of a foreign power (such as a terrorist organization or a hostile government).

Read the whole thing.

98 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:58:27pm

An interesting, brilliant, man with curious ideas about information and national security: John Poindexter

en.wikipedia.org

99 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:58:57pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, that first paragraph sure does suck.

Now, we begin to see the wages of having an administration that abuses its awesome powers, then, as night follows day, stonewalls and misleads Congress and the public. Crucial national security measures, which operate on the forgiving assumption that government officials will conduct themselves honorably, are put at risk.

100 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:59:07pm

ANYTHING with Deborah Kerr in it! Especially Vodoo movies!

101 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:59:22pm

So again, the lack of consistency.

102 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:59:29pm

re: #93 Gus

Plans. Ruined. Damn them! //

103 Kragar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 7:59:42pm

re: #93 Gus

The GOP from 2004 is calling. They say if we tell people what the program is looking for, then the terrorists will win.

104 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:01:00pm

12 hours ago.

105 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:01:29pm

Holder is right. This leak must be investigated.

106 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:02:42pm

re: #99 Varek Raith

Yeah, that first paragraph sure does suck.

Well, you gotta understand the situation McCarthy is in: He needs to say something that some NR readers won’t like, and so he softens the blow by first going after Barack Obama. It’s the classic “spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down” idea.

107 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:05:49pm

So collecting metadata is big bad 1984 but registering people with a 9 digit registration number with a CENSUS is OK? Because that’s not really tracking you. Right?

108 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:06:01pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

Well, you gotta understand the situation McCarthy is in: He needs to say something that some NR readers won’t like, and so he softens the blow by first going after Barack Obama. It’s the classic “spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down” idea.

Yeah, yeah.
It fine if a R does it, bad if a D does it.
;)

109 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:06:07pm

re: #96 Dancing along the light of day

Beware of the finned one!
I trust you are watching the ‘50’s ones, and not remakes!

Yep, TCM.

110 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:09:03pm

OK, just perused Google News:

Mitt Romney is disappointed that Susan Rice was named as National Security Advisor

and

The libeled “bag men” are suing the NY Post.

111 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:09:06pm

re: #109 Stanghazi

Yep, TCM.

We watch a lot of TCM.

112 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:10:51pm

cnn.com

How much to pay Virgin to keep him up there???
/

113 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:12:16pm

re: #110 Stanghazi

LOL! I always loved the “bag men” in Ross Thomas stories!

114 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:13:47pm

re: #112 Varek Raith

Take the sarc tag off.

/quarter

115 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:20:57pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

Yeah, yeah.
It fine if a R does it, bad if a D does it.
;)

That’s not what he’s saying, though. He’s actually saying Obama didn’t do anything wrong on this one. But just as Democrats a few years who needed to defend George W. Bush on a point felt the need to attack him on something else, so too does McCarthy need to open with vituperation aimed at the president.

The basic reason for the initial attack is to keep readers who are angry with the president from going after the writer for defending him. It’s an ODS (and pre-2009 BDS) mandated inclusion.

116 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:22:03pm

re: #110 Stanghazi

OK, just perused Google News:

Mitt Romney is disappointed that Susan Rice was named as National Security Advisor

and

The libeled “bag men” are suing the NY Post.

What was Mitt Romey expecting to be named National Security Advisor now that the job was open?

117 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:25:13pm

re: #116 jamesfirecat

What was Mitt Romey expecting to be named National Security Advisor ow that the job was open?

It was Politico. I think they are the only outfit that calls ole Mitt.

118 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:25:51pm

re: #105 Gus

Holder is right. This leak must be investigated.

Blowing TOP SECRET/NOFORN information by tattling to the Guardian and other media is definitely going to spark an investigation. No point in classifying information unless there are consequences for letting it get out.

119 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:30:16pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

The problem is the GOP base.
Look how they are reacting to this.
It started in 07. If it was leaked then, they wouldn’t care about the program.
But now that a D is using it? OUTRAGE.

120 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:30:37pm

re: #107 Gus

So collecting metadata is big bad 1984 but registering people with a 9 digit registration number with a CENSUS is OK? Because that’s not really tracking you. Right?

My 9-digit card has a msg at the bottom (in caps) “for social security and tax purposes—not for identification” and I can’t tell you how comforting it has been to know that, over the years. /

121 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:32:46pm

re: #118 EPR-radar

Blowing TOP SECRET/NOFORN information by tattling to the Guardian and other media is definitely going to spark an investigation. No point in classifying information unless there are consequences for letting it get out.

The problem with that is that after the whole “AP records subpoena” brouhaha the press is liable to attack any investigation wherever the see it. They’re protesting their turf of course, and their ability to use leaks to their advantage.

122 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:34:56pm

re: #119 Varek Raith

The problem is the GOP base.
Look how they are reacting to this.
It started in 07. If it was leaked then, they wouldn’t care about the program.
But now that a D is using it? OUTRAGE.

And there are Dems who went nuclear nosedive about this sort of thing under Bush who are now being sane about it under Obama.

It’s just the normal effects of partisanship at work.

123 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:35:07pm

Leaks are bad and so is this program.
Consistency, I haz it.
:)

124 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:35:29pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

The problem with that is that after the whole “AP records subpoena” brouhaha the press is liable to attack any investigation wherever the see it. They’re protesting their turf of course, and their ability to use leaks to their advantage.

IMO, the important part of the investigation will be to find, if possible, the cleared person(s) who leaked to the press. There’s no point in going after the press, especially the Guardian. Holder’s comments so far seem to indicate that this is the path that will be followed.

125 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:38:48pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps, it just seems far more blatant with the GOP.
Oh wells.

126 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:38:58pm

re: #124 EPR-radar

IMO, the important part of the investigation will be to find, if possible, the cleared person(s) who leaked to the press. There’s no point in going after the press, especially the Guardian. Holder’s comments so far seem to indicate that this is the path that will be followed.

Going that route will keep Congress off Holder’s back on this one, but the press won’t care. They smell blood and the news sharks are circling.

127 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:39:06pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

And there are Dems who went nuclear nosedive about this sort of thing under Bush who are now being sane about it under Obama.

It’s just the normal effects of partisanship at work.

Mea Culpa.

128 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:41:18pm

Star Trek online seems to be worth playing again.

129 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:41:26pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

And there are Dems who went nuclear nosedive about this sort of thing under Bush who are now being sane about it under Obama.

It’s just the normal effects of partisanship at work.

Well, there’s also the fact that Bush’s administration was initially doing it illegally, without FISA court oversight, that they actually tried to bully Ashcroft in his hospital bed to try and retain it, totally bypassing acting AG Comey, and came very close to causing mass Justice Department and FBI resignations before caving.

Context matters, people may not be happy with the program, but unlike under Bush I don’t see anybody claiming that the NSA under Obama is violating the law.

130 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:42:28pm

re: #127 Stanghazi

Mea Culpa.

My Fault as well. We’re both human and thus flawed. But we shall learn from our mistakes, you and I, and then we shall counter our flaws better in the future.

131 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:42:48pm

re: #127 Stanghazi

Mea Culpa.

But I’ll say, that once in place we knew it would never ever go away.

So that’s where we are.

I’m also of the feeling that the numbers of people and the numbers of conversations out there put me in a infinitesimal group that would even be noticed.

Unless they are looking for personal pot purchases. Which they better be not.

132 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:43:16pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Going that route will keep Congress off Holder’s back on this one, but the press won’t care. They smell blood and the news sharks are circling.

The press shouldn’t know anything about the leak investigation unless/until someone is charged with the crime, unless the NSA really starts to leak like a sieve.

And, of course, there is clearly no right way for Holder to handle this from the POV of Congressional Republicans.

133 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:43:29pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

My Fault as well. We’re both human and thus flawed. But we shall learn from our mistakes, you and I, and then we shall counter our flaws better in the future.

maybe…

134 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:44:37pm

I’m actually getting into this movie.

See ya’ll later!

135 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:48:50pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Impossible. For I am perfect!
:P

136 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:49:45pm

Also, Bush’s people thought this logo was a good idea, and hired Adm. John “Lied to Congress” Poindexter to run everything with zero actual oversight.

If you’d written this as the plot of a fictional novel or screenplay in 1999-2000 people would have said it wasn’t at all plausible, that the idea was just cartoonishly ridiculous.

137 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:49:46pm

re: #131 Stanghazi

But I’ll say, that once in place we knew it would never ever go away.

So that’s where we are.

I’m also of the feeling that the numbers of people and the numbers of conversations out there put me in a infinitesimal group that would even be noticed.

Unless they are looking for personal pot purchases. Which they better be not.

Security folks are already talking about the threat of convergence (e.g., terrorists cooperating with drug cartels to move people/materials across the border). The boundary between counter-terrorism and normal law enforcement will likely blur over time.

So, this intelligence information is nearly certain to eventually feed into the war on drugs (if it isn’t already happening). As I recall, other Patriot Act intelligence gathering is already being used this way.

138 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:52:18pm

re: #136 goddamnedfrank

Also, Bush’s people thought this logo was a good idea, and hired Adm. John “Lied to Congress” Poindexter to run everything with zero actual oversight.

If you’d written this as the plot of a fictional novel or screenplay in 1999-2000 people would have said it wasn’t at all plausible, that the idea was just cartoonishly ridiculous.

The Bushies screwed up everything they touched. They even managed to bugger up the patent office.

139 Gus  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:54:10pm

Good thing we had that blessed white man Glenn Greenwald to set the black man in place.

//

140 Kragar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:55:38pm


Oh Bryan, don’t be sad. You get a lot of the credit there too.

141 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 8:59:52pm

re: #138 EPR-radar

The Bushies screwed up everything they touched. They even managed to bugger up the patent office.

Republicans tend to memory hole the list of epic level fuck ups that administration produced.

Michael Brown
Paul Bremmer
Donald Rumsfeld
Harriet Myers
Henry Paulson
Scooter Libby

142 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:00:27pm

re: #141 goddamnedfrank

Gonzales
Yoo

143 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:01:13pm

re: #139 Gus

Good thing we had that blessed white man Glenn Greenwald to set the black man in place.

//

He can piss off.
;)

144 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:02:09pm

re: #142 goddamnedfrank

Gonzales
Yoo

Ashcroft was also a jackass, except for his one moment of sanity.

If I were a Republican, I’d definitely cultivate a selective amnesia about the Bush years.

145 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:04:03pm

Does anyone remember the aborted TIPS program? Holy surveillance, Batman!

146 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:04:53pm

re: #140 Kragar

Oh Bryan, don’t be sad. You get a lot of the credit there too.

Meanwhile, the headline is possibly the most factual thing Rove has ever said…and ABSOLUTELY the most factual thing ever seen on Newsmax.

147 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:08:51pm

Remember when Bush’s administration tried to fire a bunch of district attorneys for not going along with enough politically motivated prosecutions. A whole wagon full of fuck wits resigned after that, including Karl Rove and pretty much the entire leadership team at the Justice Department.

Nowadays it’s comparatively really difficult to find a scandal with that kind of body count. That’s why the Republicans are desperately trying to fling whatever they can at the wall, in the vain hope that something sticks.

148 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:09:14pm

re: #146 bratwurst

Meanwhile, the headline is possibly the most factual thing Rove has ever said…and ABSOLUTELY the most factual thing ever seen on Newsmax.

All that proves is that Karl Rove isn’t frothing-at-the-mouth insane and Bryan Fischer is. And that is something we already knew.

149 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:10:20pm

Even today, I’m astounded that John Fucking Bolton was the US ambassador to the UN.

150 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:12:42pm

re: #147 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, but the GOP didn’t fling this story, Frank, the Guardian and the Washington Post were the ones who broke it. Congressional Republican leaders have pointedly refused to froth over this story, since they know they once approved this and they know they’ll get called on it if they do start shouting.

So this one is on the press, not the leaders of either party. For once I have to say: Leave Congress alone on this one. They ain’t misbehavin’.

151 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:14:09pm

re: #149 dragonath

Even today, I’m astounded that John Fucking Bolton was the US ambassador to the UN.

Ia! Ia! Ph’nglui mglw’nafh John Bolton Bomb Iran wgah’nagl fhtagn.

152 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:21:09pm

Presented without comment:

Hundreds Carry Loaded Firearms at the ‘Come and Take It’ Rally in Temple, TX (VIDEO)

var p = new anv_pl_def();p.loadVideoWithKey(“eyJtIjoiR1JUViIsInAiOiI4IiwidiI6IjI2MTE2MTAifQ==”);

Apologies if the video doesn’t work, I’ve done my best.

153 Kragar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:23:28pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Presented without comment:

Hundreds Carry Loaded Firearms at the ‘Come and Take It’ Rally in Temple, TX (VIDEO)

var p = new anv_pl_def();p.loadVideoWithKey(“eyJtIjoiR1JUViIsInAiOiI4IiwidiI6IjI2MTE2MTAifQ==”);

The real news story there:

That many dumbass texans and no reported accidental shootings.

154 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:25:49pm

Seems like any time I think I’ve got no games to look forward to, a new one pops up out of nowhere and I’m out another $10-20.

155 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:26:54pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

That seems a little disingenuous, considering how many people online are pointing to this as proof of Great Dictator Obama. I haven’t heard any many calls from the Washington Post to unambiguously break the laws.

156 freetoken  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:35:17pm

It’s that time of year again… BILDERBERG!!

Bilderberg Protests: Police Create No-Fly Zone Over London

157 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:37:50pm

Inviting Kissinger does kinda give it that Strangelove mystique, though.

158 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:38:36pm

re: #155 dragonath

That seems a little disingenuous, considering how many people online are pointing to this as proof of Great Dictator Obama. I haven’t heard any many calls from the Washington Post to unambiguously break the laws.

Yes, but those are largely online comments posted under a pseudonym, not the words of the actual members of Congress. Some right-of-center people are freaking out, but Republican officeholders are largely holding steady. “Conservatives” and “Republicans” are terms closely related by current American politics, but nevertheless they are not synonymous.

159 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:39:40pm

re: #157 dragonath

Inviting Kissinger does kinda give it that Strangelove mystique, though.

He’s attended that event several times before. It’s not an extraordinary thing.

160 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:42:04pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Of course, it’s in their interests to keep quiet, lest they give reasons for people to remember how the process began under Bush.

161 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:43:29pm

re: #160 dragonath

Of course, it’s in their interests to keep quiet, lest they give reasons for people to remember how the process began under Bush.

Let’s see what they have to say as the elections cycle begins to warm up.

162 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:45:11pm

re: #161 The Ghost of a Flea

Let’s see what they have to say as the elections cycle begins to warm up.

Fair enough, but as long as they stay on the rails on this matter fire on them should be withheld. We should criticize actual bad actions, not anticipated ones.

163 Kragar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:54:16pm

Koch-funded group launches campaign to block carbon tax and deregulate oil industry

Americans for Prosperity (AFP), the ultra-conservative group funded by the Koch oil billionaires, is launching a series of adverts that target Democratic senators and aim to block action on climate change.

The online-only campaign was created with the specific purpose of defeating moves to make polluters pay for the greenhouse gas emissions that cause climate change.

AFP said on its website: “Over the next several weeks, the online ads will alert activists to urge their lawmakers to block carbon taxes, support domestic production, and get government out of the way of abundant, affordable energy sources.”

The group, which is funded by Charles and David Koch and other wealthy conservatives through a system of anonymous trusts, said the campaign would be one of its most ambitious projects this year, with a budget of $175,000.

164 dragonath  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 9:59:12pm
165 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 10:05:52pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough, but as long as they stay on the rails on this matter fire on them should be withheld. We should criticize actual bad actions, not anticipated ones.

Honestly, at this point, I’m waiting to see where the hyperbole turns out to be. Because the pattern of how it’s being sold is very, very similar to all of the other recent outrages. Breathless declarations about what it means for President, OMG! freakouts by the standard crowds of left and right commentators, and nobody reading things closely or thoroughly. I’m thoroughly sick of US media “news”: the vast majority is lazy, sensationalistic, and chooses to puff up their rep rather than admit to being gulled (*cough* that last document dump that everybody wet themselves over*cough*)

The walking back of initial grand statements (while denying a walkback) has already started, as has the second wave of “Whoa, there!” Slow down” articles that contradict the initial reaction.

There’s a very real issue about civil liberties at the base of this, but it’s been there since 2001. That it has arisen now has to be viewed with a touch of Cui bono?

166 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 10:16:55pm

Tap tap tap…
is this thing on?

167 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 10:25:29pm
168 freetoken  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 10:25:46pm

This one goes out to all the

BILDERBERG!!

crowd:

MP3 Audio

170 Lidane  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 10:56:26pm

re: #163 Kragar

Koch-funded group launches campaign to block carbon tax and deregulate oil industry

Yes, because the oil industry is oppressed and downtrodden, don’tcha know.

Remind me again about all the people from BP who went to prison for the Gulf oil spill?

171 freetoken  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 10:58:03pm

Monk in his younger days:

MP3 Audio

172 freetoken  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:00:00pm

I think that is Sonny Rollins on the saxophone.

173 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:29:52pm

re: #170 Lidane

Yes, because the oil industry is oppressed and downtrodden, don’tcha know.

Remind me again about all the people from BP who went to prison for the Gulf oil spill?

Remember the BP exec who had to cancel his vacation to come deal with the situation: IS THAT NOT PUNISHMENT ENOUGH!

174 Lidane  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:31:07pm

Awesome. Can we make this a one-way flight?

175 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:32:46pm

re: #174 Lidane

I completely vote for one way!
We can pass a cookie jar & take up a collection!

176 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:33:54pm

re: #174 Lidane

Awesome. Can we make this a one-way flight?

There is a chance that he could fall into a black hole and come out strewn across the space-time continuum, thus fulfilling every teeny’s dream of JUSTIN FOREVER!!!

177 Kragar  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:34:37pm

re: #170 Lidane

Yes, because the oil industry is oppressed and downtrodden, don’tcha know.

Remind me again about all the people from BP who went to prison for the Gulf oil spill?

I guess that news got lost in the shuffle of all those wall street bankers getting hauled into jail.

178 Lidane  Thu, Jun 6, 2013 11:35:17pm
179 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:14:08am

An Ensemble Sirin soloist singing “St. George and the Serpent”:

MP3 Audio

180 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:14:11am

re: #178 Lidane

Mitt Romney is still looking for his Anne-Droid

181 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:19:27am

Yay, I am back home with my kitties and my husband just in time for the two day heat wave.

But kitties!

The number of people with no idea how to construct a Powerpoint presentation is rather sad, but definitely not limited to our government. There may have been some painfully bad ones at this conference.

182 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:20:55am

Tonight’s Sibelius moment should take us through the rest of the night, with last month’s CSO program which also features two cello pieces featuring YoYo Ma:

SoundCloud


Music starts around 3:20 in.

183 Occam's Guillotine  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:25:27am

re: #174 Lidane

Awesome. Can we make this a one-way flight?

Nah, the Virgin Galactic machine is strictly suborbital: If it goes up, it will definitely come down.

184 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:25:42am

re: #182 freetoken

Tonight’s Sibelius moment should take us through the rest of the night, with last month’s CSO program which also features two cello pieces featuring YoYo Ma:

Your Your Mother!

185 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:32:28am

Don’t know what happened to my Soundcloud embed. Oh well, here it is again:

SoundCloud

186 Occam's Guillotine  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:33:43am

The Sandals, Wingnut’s Theme from The Endless Summer.

Youtube Video

187 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 1:42:14am

In order to keep a promise to my high school self, I need to find a way to include this music in the movie I’m working on. I swore to myself then that this music is made for an outer space scene and damn it, I mean to keep that promise

Youtube Video

188 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 1:59:15am

re: #187 Kragar

In order to keep a promise to my high school self, I need to find a way to include this music in the movie I’m working on. I swore to myself then that this music is made for an outer space scene and damn it, I mean to keep that promise

You can see my music in a 1986 Lorimar release, American Anthem, you just can’t hear it.

It was filmed in Flagstaff, Arizona, where my buddy had a recording studio. We had been recording some tracks on his reel-to-reel, and the film people needed one for a shot which shows a fellow recording some music while the needles move on the reel-to-reel.

So in the shot, you can see the needles bounding to the music we had recorded!!!

I was shattered that i did not get a grammy nomination for “best inaudible soundtrack”…

189 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:17:22am

I’ve not posted much on this lately, but I review what is happening to the “Adam and Eve” controversy within conservative American Christianity as a few voices (e.g., Biologos) keep raising the idea that “evolution” is ok with God, etc.

There is a slow simmer going on in the Evangelical community, with the more “conservative” (read hard-core orthodoxy) ones fuming at the idea that a literal creationist reading of the Bible is in error.

Charges of bibliolatry (though that word is rarely used except by Catholics when discussing the conservative Protestants) flow one way, and charges of “poisoning” of the faith flowing the other way.

Bottom line is this: Magick Book has no more magick, and this is really bothering some people. I think I’m starting to side with the Catholics on this one, that the real problem with conservative (and more accurately, atavistic) Protestantism is indeed bibliolatry. It’s at the core of their belief system and many of their consternations flow from it.

Now that modern science has shown that many of the claims of the Bible, if taken literally anyway, are false there is little for the Bibliolaters to do but bury their heads in verbal plenary sand dunes.

American society is changing as time goes on, and the fundamentalist literalist churches are going to have an even harder time getting along with the rest of our society as it changes.

This angst has gone on for some time, and I can see it carrying on for several more decades.

190 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:24:55am
“The story of terrorism is written by the state and it is therefore highly instructive … compared with terrorism, everything else must be acceptable, or in any case more rational and democratic.”

-Guy Debord, La Societé de la Spectacle
191 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:50:24am

re: #189 freetoken

If you insist on a literal reading of the Bible, then you must not only reject science, but logic itself, as many parts of the Bible contradict themselves.

How can we remain a modern, post-industrial democracy when he have so many people who reject the basic foundations of reason?

192 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:54:58am

re: #191 Sol Berdinowitz

Well, the true believers will point out that “democracy” is a heresy and a form of idolatry, so its passing is not a problem.

As for industry, they’d also argue that the greatest growth in industrial output was when America was more “Godly”, so there is no conflict there.

As for “reason”, well, the problem is just that you are totally depraved and incapable of understanding the truth. So there.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:56:48am

Sounds like we have to repeat the whole cycle of history again…the one that the Enlightenment tried to break by elevating Reason above Belief.

194 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:46:38am

So besides investing in more police/intel/detective type work (relying more on people than technology) what is the alternative to all this electronic spying on everyone and hoping to sort it all out? Or are we (and by extension our government) kidding ourselves by thinking all this data mining is going to protect us? I’m honestly not sure what to think. I’ve read a bunch of stuff about this today and I’m more confused than when I started.

I’m not at all tech savvy beyond what I need/use to go about my life with a phone,computer and whatever technology is in my car.Hell, I’m sure that my computer does way more stuff than I use it for. I don’t really understand the technical aspects of any of this stuff. It just seems to me that these mountains of data aren’t specifically helpful to stop something like 9/11/01 from happening again. If it were, you’d think other tragedies would be averted that haven’t too. Like the Boston Marathon Bombings or various school shootings, etc. Unless I’m missing something, it seems like when law enforcement stops a plot from some whacko militia or crazy lone wolf it’s detective work that catches the bad guys, not sifting through mountains of computer related data.

195 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:52:55am

re: #194 A Mom Anon

If we bloggers know how this works, it doesn’t work.

196 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:54:24am

re: #194 A Mom Anon

So besides investing in more police/intel/detective type work (relying more on people than technology) what is the alternative to all this electronic spying on everyone and hoping to sort it all out? Or are we (and by extension our government) kidding ourselves by thinking all this data mining is going to protect us? I’m honestly not sure what to think. I’ve read a bunch of stuff about this today and I’m more confused than when I started.

It’s probably pretty useless compared to human intelligence.

It just seems to me that these mountains of data aren’t specifically helpful to stop something like 9/11/01 from happening again.

It’s probably 98% being used for drug stuff, not terrorism stuff.

197 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:00:16am

re: #196 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

But even with the drug stuff, wouldn’t people and police work be the key to taking down the big cartels operating here? Same with gang activity (which is often indirectly or directly linked to drug cartels, depending on the gang). Some of the stuff I came across last night and this morning sounds like the dreaded FEMA camps and black helicopter stuff; massive data storage facilities out in the middle of nowhere and that sort of thing. My brain can’t comprehend a lot of this stuff, it just doesn’t seem possible to store every little bit of data out there.

198 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:27:29am

re: #197 A Mom Anon

…it just doesn’t seem possible to store every little bit of data out there.

It isn’t, as far as content.

To much fantasy TV/cinema has infected our consciouses.

What can be stored are the descriptors and attributes - the connecting telephone numbers, statistics on usage, etc. Looking for patterns allows targeting of specific individuals or locations, and then those can be monitored for content.

199 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:28:39am

DERP

200 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:01am

30 years ago I remember the increased interest in non-invasive monitoring of fiber optic cables. At that time fiber was just starting to replace in mass the copper connections and the satellite links (something which is almost complete today.) I was doing material science work at the time, but some of my coworkers were involved in the fiber stuff.

The concern back then was that intelligence (whether for national security or for criminal investigations) gathering was going to get a whole lot more difficult in the future (that would be today.)

It turns out this type of work was broadly investigated and some of the people I knew were indeed funded by one of those agencies.

Personally I think this is more culture shock and part of our collective angst about living in 2013. We clever monkeys are inventing tools so quickly that we are scaring ourselves.

201 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:34:08am

re: #197 A Mom Anon

But even with the drug stuff, wouldn’t people and police work be the key to taking down the big cartels operating here?

Yep, like I said, it’s probably pretty useless compared to human intelligence.

Same with gang activity (which is often indirectly or directly linked to drug cartels, depending on the gang). Some of the stuff I came across last night and this morning sounds like the dreaded FEMA camps and black helicopter stuff; massive data storage facilities out in the middle of nowhere and that sort of thing. My brain can’t comprehend a lot of this stuff, it just doesn’t seem possible to store every little bit of data out there.

It’s not. Or rather, storing is not the problem, storing with meaningful taxonomy is.

202 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:50:22am

Watching Showgirls, a much trashed movie, it struck me that one of the early lines in the movie, when one character says to the lead “You’ve got to gamble if you’re going to win” is insightful about human nature, and especially our culture.

Whether that statement is a absolute truth or not may be irrelevant, but I do think many people believe it.

It’s all part of the introduction to the long movie and goes with some other early statements to set up the premise that the lead character (a female) doesn’t really have a choice to not do what others (especially men) demand of her. It’s a kind of fatalism.

203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:54:25am

re: #202 freetoken

Did you seriously just quote Showgirls?

Aside from the direct gambling in our culture, scratch tickets and the like, I think people actually have an overabundance of caution in our culture, and are often unwilling and uncomfortable moving outside what they already know. There’s a cultural barrier to economic mobility, a big one.

204 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:58:19am

Continuing last night’s discussion about targeted marketing, here is a “targeted marketing” campaign directed at me that actually worked.

I started receiving issues of Vogue in the mail. I did not order it, and I couldn’t understand who would want to send me a subscription since, I thought, I will never wear any of the clothes worn by these models! I am totally at the opposite end of the physical body type the Vogue promotes. So I thought it was very weird.

However, Vogue also includes ads for stuff that I do buy, like cosmetics. And it also contained a bunch of Nordstrom ads.

And yes, I did buy a new fragrance at Nordstrom after seeing an ad for it in Vogue.

I still don’t know who is sending the free issues of Vogue, but I suspect that it is Nordstrom.

205 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:03:58am

Bryan freaks out over a stupid cake.
Also, gay people: Boycott this hate bakery. There are other bakeries that would be delighted to have your business.

206 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:04:38am

re: #203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Did you seriously just quote Showgirls?

Only on LGF.

It’s not the gambling part that struck me most, it was the male character saying “You got to…. “.

A theme which reoccurs in the movie, perhaps unintentionally.

207 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:06:07am

re: #206 freetoken

Only on LGF.

It’s not the gambling part that struck me most, it was the male character saying “You got to…. “.

A theme which reoccurs in the movie, perhaps unintentionally.

People say and do a bunch of stupid shit in movies, that is totally unrealistic and could never work out in real life. Read Cracked.com sometimes for their lists of utterly improbable and ridiculous scenarios that you only see in movies.

208 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:13:00am

re: #203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think that’s true, but there’s also a practical barrier as well. If you have roots in a place, like home ownership being the biggest example, it’s not that simple to uproot and just move. 1) Moving isn’t cheap, even if you do it yourself. 2)While the market has improved over the last couple of years, there’s no guarantee that your home will sell in time for you to start that new job hundreds of miles away. 3)If you are in a lower income bracket, the cost of moving up and out of where you are can keep you stuck too, it’s nearly impossible to afford food, clothing, medical care, transportation, shelter and education to make your life better so you can be economically mobile, unless you’re already doing well. I suppose these sorts of barriers have always been there, but it seems like in many ways it is harder to get past them now.

All that leaves you kind of stuck and unable to move up the ladder unless you are lucky enough to be able to do that wherever you are. I do remember a time where it was much easier to go from place to place without those sorts of barriers. Companies paid to move you to the new place too. That doesn’t happen anywhere but higher level management anymore. Education was less expensive too, even adjusting everything for inflation. Homes sold quicker and easier. Not that people haven’t always faced challenges as they worked their way up, but there are obstacles that our parents found to be smaller and maybe less challenging than what we and the next generation face.

209 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:14:04am

re: #204 Vicious Babushka

I get Reader’s Digest, have for 2 years and I never subscribed to it. Not sure what that says about me, lol.

210 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:16:17am

re: #209 A Mom Anon

I get Reader’s Digest, have for 2 years and I never subscribed to it. Not sure what that says about me, lol.

RD has a bunch of drug ads, just like CBS prime time TV.

I also get Better Homes, but I have never bought anything advertised in there. I do enjoy their recipes, though.

211 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:16:45am

re: #207 Vicious Babushka

It’s not that it was stupid. A great deal of the movie is over-acted on very simplistic lines.

I’ve taken a lot of photos in my life, and looking back sometimes at an image I get struck not by what the original intent may have been (if indeed I was conscious of any at the time) but what physically gets manifested before me as I look at the result. Perhaps quite unintentionally something is captured that is interesting or revealing that one becomes aware of later.

It’s one of those “meta” things about artistic endeavors, when one steps back and looks at how the real result compares to the bigger picture, and not necessarily what the artist/craftsman intended (or stated originally as their intent.)

212 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:19:46am

re: #211 freetoken

The success of a movie or any other work of fiction depends on its ability to make the audience suspend disbelief at the unrealistic stuff that is being portrayed.

If you are watching something and you say “This is totally unrealistic shit!” then the show has failed. It’s all unrealistic shit, but for the moment you should forget that, if they are skillful.

213 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:33:44am

re: #3 freetoken

I only defend the administration in that they appear to be faithfully carrying out the law, exactly as they swore to do.

I have to agree in that respect. Obama is a smart lawyer. His job is to follow the law, it’s OUR job to make sure the laws are the ones we want.

214 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:37:53am

I’m at the point where I’m just plain tired of scandals. After Benghazi, I feel like those that bring them to the forefront are just crying wolf.

If the government can find anything in my phone calls to nail me with a crime, then I’m screwed either way. If they want me that bad (as there is nothing in my calls that would constitute a crime) they’ll find something somewhere else if phone records are available.

Regardless of what the Whackos think, the government does not have unlimited resources. Why would they waste their time on me.

Unless I see evidence of Racism or Sexism (which is quite possible, I’ll admit)—I’m must not interested.

215 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:41:46am

re: #202 freetoken

Watching Showgirls, a much trashed movie, it struck me that one of the early lines in the movie, when one character says to the lead “You’ve got to gamble if you’re going to win” is insightful about human nature, and especially our culture.

Whether that statement is a absolute truth or not may be irrelevant, but I do think many people believe it.

It’s all part of the introduction to the long movie and goes with some other early statements to set up the premise that the lead character (a female) doesn’t really have a choice to not do what others (especially men) demand of her. It’s a kind of fatalism.

” It’s a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there’s no knowing where you might be swept off to. “

216 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:43:54am

re: #196 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It’s probably pretty useless compared to human intelligence.

It’s probably 98% being used for drug stuff, not terrorism stuff.

Now, that is probably (IMHO) a Racially explosive situation. Not to mention a waste of money and time.

217 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:49:13am

re: #191 Sol Berdinowitz

If you insist on a literal reading of the Bible, then you must not only reject science, but logic itself, as many parts of the Bible contradict themselves.

How can we remain a modern, post-industrial democracy when he have so many people who reject the basic foundations of reason?

There seems to be a real push of “grassroots scientists” to take the responsibility to correct this. I listen to SciFriday on NPR and some other podcasts. There is a serious discussion happening in which scientists are trying to figure-out what changes they have to make.

One is that they need to, perhaps read Shakespeare. One scientist said that one could go thru 10 years in academia pursing a Phd and never read Shakespeare! Meaning, that some liberal arts are necessary to learn to communicate with non-science majors. Storytelling is an important communication tool.

Another Example: Alan Alda has a major project going trying to change the face of science in this country.

218 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:50:04am

I’m done, I think I killed the thread beyond recognition.

219 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:51:59am

Good morning, everyone…and by ‘everyone’ I mean all the regulars here, and not any terrorists, drug smugglers, murderers, rapeystabby people, or other unscrupulous people who might be under the watchful eye of the government(lest I be associated with such people and added to a watch list)…unless, of course, all the regulars here are murderin’ smugglin’ rapeystabby terrorists, in which case I say, “Good morning, everyone!”

220 sattv4u2  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:53:49am

re: #219 darthstar

unless, of course, all the regulars here are murderin’ smugglin’ rapeystabby terrorists

dammit
I forgot to smuggle something today!!

221 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:54:34am

should I change my nic?

nah

222 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:55:06am

re: #217 FemNaziBitch

Cool link.

223 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:55:59am

re: #222 darthstar

Cool link.

Yeah, I know!!!!!
*big grin*

224 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:01:17am

re: #220 sattv4u2

unless, of course, all the regulars here are murderin’ smugglin’ rapeystabby terrorists

dammit
I forgot to smuggle something today!!

Here’s something you can smuggle. Put a couple of tablespoons of cooked oatmeal in a plastic bag and smuggle it in to work on your next shift. As soon as you get there, plop the oatmeal onto a keyboard, control panel, monitor, or whatever, then take a picture of it and email it to the company with the subject, “What the hell is this?”

225 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:05:44am
226 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:08:49am
227 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:09:58am

Here’s a question for anyone living in a city of more than 30,000 people, or anyone who shops for food, or gasses their car…when was the last time you went to town and didn’t have your picture taken more than once?

228 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:11:02am

re: #226 FemNaziBitch

I may have to buy a new camera for this …

I don’t like that they used a death star in that picture.

229 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:12:38am

re: #227 darthstar

A friend of mine got into a weird altercation and a civil suit resulted from it. They sought video camera recordings from all the business on the block.

They got zip. 5 of the places had cameras that were live-only, no record. the one that did record was shooting at like 20 FPS. 5 other places had dummy cameras or cameras that weren’t hooked up.

There’s one town a friend of mine is a cop in where they actually subsidize the convenience store video cameras since robbery at them is so common.

230 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:13:07am

re: #226 FemNaziBitch

I may have to buy a new camera for this …

Looks like a wide angle lens is in order… LOL

231 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:15:55am

The furor over the NSA stuff reminds me of the biggest disappointment I have with the Democrats: the complete lack of prison reform. Our prisons, and the frequency of our arrests and incarcerations, are the root of a lot of problems in this country. I haven’t heard Obama or any significant Democrat spend much time on this compared to, say, ‘the middle class’.

232 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:17:55am
233 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:18:44am

re: #217 FemNaziBitch

There seems to be a real push of “grassroots scientists” to take the responsibility to correct this. I listen to SciFriday on NPR and some other podcasts. There is a serious discussion happening in which scientists are trying to figure-out what changes they have to make.

One is that they need to, perhaps read Shakespeare. One scientist said that one could go thru 10 years in academia pursing a Phd and never read Shakespeare! Meaning, that some liberal arts are necessary to learn to communicate with non-science majors. Storytelling is an important communication tool.

Another Example: Alan Alda has a major project going trying to change the face of science in this country.

A lot of grassroots work is needed to simply explain to people what science is (and isn’t) and how it works: how a hypothesis is tested and becomes a theory, how peer review works, etc.

“Evolution is just a theory” is a major pseudo-creationist argument. Yes, it is a theory. A very well founded one. Creationism is not a theory because is is not (and cannot be) supported by objective facts.

234 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:20:02am

re: #232 FemNaziBitch

Philosophical word play is more important than a women’s life… .

*grrrrr*

(pages post)

That’s fucked up.

235 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:20:32am

re: #233 Sol Berdinowitz

A lot of grassroots work is needed to simply explain to people what science is (and isn’t) and how it works: how a hypothesis is tested and becomes a theory, how peer review works, etc.

“Evolution is just a theory” is a major pseudo-creationist argument. Yes, it is a theory. A very well founded one. Creationism is not a theory because is is not (and cannot be) supported by objective facts.

They’ve been talking alot about this. It’s interesting, really. SciFri is an NPR thing. I get it from my NPR iPhone app —free. It’s part of the daily news. I’ve been hearing it from somewhere else, I just can’t remember where. Perhaps one of the many Sci-Fi story podcasts I listen to. They often have commentary.

236 andres  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:22:43am

re: #25 Varek Raith

Next call, I’m going to randomly say, “NSA SUCKS!”
Data mine that!
/

You just reminded me of this. I may give it a try. :P

237 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:24:23am

The Clown Car is getting gassed up for 2016!

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

238 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:24:27am

re: #231 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The furor over the NSA stuff reminds me of the biggest disappointment I have with the Democrats: the complete lack of prison reform. Our prisons, and the frequency of our arrests and incarcerations, are the root of a lot of problems in this country. I haven’t heard Obama or any significant Democrat spend much time on this compared to, say, ‘the middle class’.

Prisoners don’t vote. Sad but true.

There’s a lot of things that need fixing, but now that we apparently need sixty votes in the senate (and control of the house and presidency, and a majority of the supreme court) to pass warmed-over center-right reform, this period of the American experiment in democracy is going to be about shoring up votes in flyover states.

239 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:25:04am

re: #231 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This

240 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:25:15am

I talk and argue all the time when I’m alone. Mostly trying to work out problems or preparing myself for an upcoming argument with someone. Practicing, if you will.

If anyone asks overhears and asks, (which, well most people just assume I’m *eccentric*) —I’ve decided to say I’m working things out with my Guardian Angel. That way, I figure they’ll never pry into my business again.

241 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:25:32am

Rachel’s rant on the NSA program (especially in light of the fact that we don’t know how much of the story is bullshit) was so off the rails I actually turned the channel…to NBA basketball. What a stupid fucking sport. They should ban basketball after college. These guys don’t care if they win. They’re getting paid millions of dollars to trade fancy camera poses with their opponents. NBA playoffs and finals should be limited to one game, Game 7. Give both teams 89 points and set the clock at three minutes. There’s your season.

Oh, and Rachel…I hope you’re feeling better today.

242 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:28:17am

re: #240 FemNaziBitch

OMG I am SO glad I’m not the only one who does that,lol. I work stuff out aloud all the time. I’ve thought of just putting one of those dumb headsets on connected to nothing so it looks like I’m talking to someone,heh.

243 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:29:15am

re: #241 darthstar

I had a similar suggestion for European Cup soccer: dispense with the first 90 minutes and start with the penalty kicks, those are exciting! And the whole championship is over in one afternoon, you have the rest of the week to watch something interesting…

244 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:31:21am

re: #242 A Mom Anon

OMG I am SO glad I’m not the only one who does that,lol. I work stuff out aloud all the time. I’ve thought of just putting one of those dumb headsets on connected to nothing so it looks like I’m talking to someone,heh.

Yeah, I call it verbal journalling.

It’s not so bad when I’m in the car because I have a bluetooth headset. People are talking all the time in the car —on their cell phones —HAH!

245 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:32:28am

Okay…it’s Friday, I’ve got two dogs, and the beach (in the fog) beckons.

246 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:32:57am

re: #227 darthstar

Here’s a question for anyone living in a city of more than 30,000 people, or anyone who shops for food, or gasses their car…when was the last time you went to town and didn’t have your picture taken more than once?

Heh. My apartment building has CCTV on the entrances. And so does the building I work in - so generally less than eight hours at most before I appear on a camera somewhere.

247 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:33:18am

In happier news, an old family friend wrote a very short and touching note to a lot of us. Here it is.

Dear friends,

Thank you for putting up with me. It makes me wince now to think of how many times your eyes must have rolled and how many polite coughs I inspired. As you all know, I recently went into the hospital for surgery, which is the first time I’ve ever needed a doctor in my life. The doctor was black. He was smart. He fixed my knee. I can play catch with my grandkids.

I’ve been a dumb racist and there’s no excuse. It’s selfish that it took a black man doing something so life-changing for me to throw away the trash of the past.

I’m thinking up ways to atone that aren’t patronizing. I figure volunteering my time [NB: he was a lawyer] for that Innocence Project I used to mock might be a good step. What do you guys think?

Anyone who ever told me to shut up: you were right, I was wrong.

248 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:36:11am

re: #231 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The furor over the NSA stuff reminds me of the biggest disappointment I have with the Democrats: the complete lack of prison reform. Our prisons, and the frequency of our arrests and incarcerations, are the root of a lot of problems in this country. I haven’t heard Obama or any significant Democrat spend much time on this compared to, say, ‘the middle class’.

Political third rail. Try for prison reform or anything like that and the candidate is in the current political environment immediately cast as “soft on crime” and “coddling criminals”. Since no hard-working American voters are criminals there is no interest in them helping the candidate spend tax dollars changing that system.

Please ignore the PA judge since convicted of harsh sentencing of yutes in exchanges for kickbacks from a private prison contractor. That’s an exception.
/

249 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:36:36am

re: #247 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Oh wow, that is awesome. Yep, it often takes something that has a direct and personal effect before people wake up to some dumb prejudice they might have had. It also shows integrity and compassion.

250 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:37:23am

Breaking-
SoCal Edison says they will shut down the San Onofre nuclear power facility. The enviro advocates may think this ios a victory. What it is, is an unnecessary tragedy that will certainly result in fossil fuel plants making up the difference. This will also strain our grid. Shame on the liars and serial exaggerators among the critics.

abcnews.go.com

251 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:39:58am

re: #250 Political Atheist

Well, what’s wrong with the plant?

252 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:42:41am

re: #231 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The furor over the NSA stuff reminds me of the biggest disappointment I have with the Democrats: the complete lack of prison reform. Our prisons, and the frequency of our arrests and incarcerations, are the root of a lot of problems in this country. I haven’t heard Obama or any significant Democrat spend much time on this compared to, say, ‘the middle class’.

Uh—Pres. Obama is the millionaire grandson of a banking official. If the RWNJ hyenas would shut up about him for a while, the Lefties would start to kneecap him.

253 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:42:55am

re: #247 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

In happier news, an old family friend wrote a very short and touching note to a lot of us. Here it is.

Something like that makes up for a lot.

I have a lingering low-level grudge for a whole passel of fraternity brothers who made my work with them unnecessarily complex and stressful* while I was doing volunteer work as an alumnus. Of that bunch there has been *one* who realized after the fact what a jackass and pain he’d been that was also willing to approach me and apologize about it.

* - This included openly lying to me about things, accusing the alumni group of conspiring in an attempt to personally profit off the fraternity, etc. etc. Kind of stuff that sours one from doing volunteer work.

254 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:45:07am

re: #248 Feline Fearless Leader

Political third rail. Try for prison reform or anything like that and the candidate is in the current political environment immediately cast as “soft on crime” and “coddling criminals”. Since no hard-working American voters are criminals there is no interest in them helping the candidate spend tax dollars changing that system.

Please ignore the PA judge since convicted of harsh sentencing of yutes in exchanges for kickbacks from a private prison contractor. That’s an exception.
/

Prison reform = Willie Horton

255 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:45:34am

re: #251 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

EDIT-Well first it’s a nuke plant. For some that’s all the info they need to oppose.

There was an upgrade that went poorly. The manufacturer of the new tubes put them too close, vibration caused wear and a tiny leak. In any case it’s repairable. But with costs and delays thanks to the opponents it’s closing.

The plant has had many a year of smooth clean electricity production, and enjoys a safety record the envy of most any heavy industrial site. In some ways the Japanese tsunami now has another victim. A big facility and thousands of jobs.

256 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:48:51am

re: #255 Political Atheist

Nuclear energy can only compete because it is indirectly subsidized by a liability limit for nuclear disasters of $500,000,000. In comparison, Chernobyl was estimated to have cost 20 billion - in 1986.

If nuclear plants had to insure themselves for the full extent of possible damages, they would probably find it cheaper to put their nuclear engineers on static bicycles and let them produce electricity.

257 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:49:15am

i gotta go.

HAVE A GREAT ONE ALL!

258 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:49:41am

re: #255 Political Atheist

Don’t they not even really know what the problem is yet, and didn’t the workers say they were intimidated into not coming forwards with problems, and didn’t someone actually fall into a pool there?

259 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:50:36am

re: #256 Sol Berdinowitz

Which is why we should socialize nukes, using the Air Force dudes who currently are turning useless guarding cold-war relics, and use an ultra-modern nuke design.

Not going to happen, of course.

260 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:51:59am

re: #254 Sol Berdinowitz

Prison reform = Willie Horton

Prison reform starts by legalizing drugs and subsidizing medical treatment. Emptier prisons are easier to reform.

261 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:52:24am

re: #256 Sol Berdinowitz

Nuclear energy can only compete because it is indirectly subsidized by a liability limit for nuclear disasters of $500,000,000. In comparison, Chernobyl was estimated to have cost 20 billion - in 1986.

If nuclear plants had to insure themselves for the full extent of possible damages, they would probably find it cheaper to put their nuclear engineers on static bicycles and let them produce electricity.

No sense repeating, but the global warming data is compelling.

262 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:52:48am

Nationalize nuclear power.
I can live with that.

263 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:53:08am

re: #259 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Which is why we should socialize nukes, using the Air Force dudes who currently are turning useless guarding cold-war relics, and use an ultra-modern nuke design.

Not going to happen, of course.

The Free Market is an illusion.

There are market mechanisms that serve to balance supply and demand and redirect flows of capital, but the actual market is dominated by government subsidies, direct and indirect, for energy, food, education and transportation.

264 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:53:55am

re: #262 Varek Raith

Nationalize nuclear power.
I can live with that.

So could I, but our socialist commie nazi president is trying to denationalize the TVA.

265 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:54:29am

re: #264 Decatur Deb

So could I, but our socialist commie nazi president is trying to denationalize the TVA.

Man, he sucks at being a commie usurper.

266 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:54:44am

re: #263 Sol Berdinowitz

The Free Market is an illusion.

There are market mechanisms that serve to balance supply and demand and redirect flows of capital, but the actual market is dominated by government subsidies, direct and indirect, for energy, food, education and transportation.

NTTAWWT

267 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:54:45am

re: #259 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Which is why we should socialize nukes, using the Air Force dudes who currently are turning useless guarding cold-war relics, and use an ultra-modern nuke design.

Not going to happen, of course.

OMG socialist nukes.

A bit further down Obama’s priority list than compassionate prison reform, I would have thought.

268 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:55:31am

re: #258 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Don’t they not even really know what the problem is yet, and didn’t the workers say they were intimidated into not coming forwards with problems, and didn’t someone actually fall into a pool there?

They do know what the issue is. Great example of an erroneous impression created by the critics. Like any big place there have been issues. Perfection is not what anyone claims there. There are procedural and engineering solutions available. Alas, it’s over.

Time to commute BBIAB

269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:59:06am

re: #268 Political Atheist

They do know what the issue is. Great example of an erroneous impression created by the critics

Really? Wasn’t there a letter from an Edison engineer saying that they really don’t, and if they proceed with the fix the problem will reoccur?

The latest thing I can find is someone from the company saying they’re not sure if reactor 3 could be scrapped or not. Is there something more recent from the company saying that they really have a handle on the problems and assurance that it won’t happen again?

270 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:00:41am

Your Pamela Spelling Fail of the Day

271 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:01:39am

re: #270 Vicious Babushka

Your Pamela Spelling Fail of the Day

The Morning Wild Oat Sow with Sean and Frank.

NTTAWWT

/Deb

272 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:01:53am

re: #266 Decatur Deb

NTTAWWT

“Should any political party attempt to abolish social security unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group of course that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few other Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1956

273 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:02:01am

re: #270 Vicious Babushka

I did the morning sow on some sourdough bread with mustard. Mmm, pork loin.

274 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:02:20am

re: #271 iossarian

The Morning Wild Oat Sow with Sean and Frank.

NTTAWWT

/Deb

I had another definition of sow in mind when I saw this.

275 blueraven  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:02:44am

re: #258 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Don’t they not even really know what the problem is yet, and didn’t the workers say they were intimidated into not coming forwards with problems, and didn’t someone actually fall into a pool there?

San Onofre security demands video be deleted

In late April, Team 10 was working on a series of stories involving the nuclear facility and its management. Team 10 was shooting video of the facility from a public state beach when police and San Onofre staff demanded the video be deleted before Team 10 be allowed to leave the public park.

“If you go ahead and film you’re going to get a citation,” a state parks employee who identified himself as Bob Warman said.

Warman claimed the video was being taken from private property. However, there were no visible signs posted marking private property. Team 10 was following the instructions of a state parks official at the entrance of the San Onofre State Beach.

The street sign Warman identified as the end of public property read, “no parking.”

According to San Onofre’s spokeswoman Warman had been called by plant security. The nuclear facility has been idle for more than 18 months because of a radiation leak.

Team 10’s previous reports on the facility revealed how nuclear experts and insiders felt restarting the plant was risky.

The reporting uncovered a picture showing plastic bags, duct tape and broom sticks used to seal a leaky industrial pipe in the plant.

Team 10 also reported on a star trek spoof, shot inside the plant’s training simulator, featuring senior plant managers.

Warman called for back up when he was informed of the public’s right to record video from public property.

“Right now, turn the camera off,” California state park police officer Ennio Rocca said when he arrived on the beach. Team 10 confirmed he was responding the Warman’s request for back up.

Rocca identified himself as a state parks police officer.

He asked for identification and ran a background check on the 10News crew.

“They called us down here because they said there are people filming the nuclear generator,” officer Rocca said. “Its a high terrorist threat. They take it very seriously.”

Rocca said the FBI was being dispatched, however they never arrived at the scene.

As the camera rolled it captured more than the signature twin domes of the nuclear facility. It watched a man go fishing, a woman walk her dog and car cruise by — all in the same spot where Warman claimed Team 10 was trespassing.

“You’re just being detained,” officer Rocca said. “They’re going to come down here. You’re going to explain your story. They’re going to look at your footage.”

A San Onofre employee dressed in SWAT gear said the video must be deleted. He did not view the video, but said officer Rocca would make sure the video was deleted before the news crew be allowed to leave the state beach area.

Team 10 paid $15.00 to access the beach, the standard fee for public entry.

“If the public is allowed there, then the press is allowed there,” the National Press Photographers Association’s general council Mickey Osterreicher said.

Osterreicher sent a letter to San Onofre and the State Parks Commission offering first and fourth amendment training to both agencies.

“There are no circumstances under which law enforcement or anyone else may order the deletion of files belonging to another person,” Osterreicher wrote in the letter.

Read more…

276 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:04:55am
277 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:07:15am

DERP

278 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:10:39am
279 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:15:10am

It really pains me that all these right-wingers who were shrieking about how increased surveillance was necessary so that Rummy could save us all from ebil terrists, and anyone who opposed said surveillance was a TRAITOR and should be HANGED, are now totally down with civil liberties because black president.

It’s nice to have their support, but something tells me that they don’t have a real deep-seated attachment to said civil liberties and would be quite happy to swing the other way once the pigopolists get back in power.

280 Stanghazi  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:16:16am

re: #250 Political Atheist

Breaking-
SoCal Edison says they will shut down the San Onofre nuclear power facility. The enviro advocates may think this ios a victory. What it is, is an unnecessary tragedy that will certainly result in fossil fuel plants making up the difference. This will also strain our grid. Shame on the liars and serial exaggerators among the critics.

abcnews.go.com

Well, there were definitely problems. Probably some we don’t know about.

And don’t you doubt for a moment Cal Edison will come out just fine, otherwise they wouldn’t do it without being forced.

281 blueraven  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:19:26am

re: #280 Stanghazi

Well, there were definitely problems. Probably some we don’t know about.

And don’t you doubt for a moment Cal Edison will come out just fine, otherwise they wouldn’t do it without being forced.

Youtube Video

282 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:19:46am

re: #275 blueraven

San Onofre security demands video be deleted

Read more…

They sound just like the people I want running a nuclear plant.

283 Ian G.  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:22:40am

re: #270 Vicious Babushka

“I did The Morning Sow with Sean and Frank…”

An orgy with a female pig? OMFG, Rick Santorum was right about the slippery slope of legalized gay marriage!!!!!111

284 blueraven  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:31:06am
The four steam generators at San Onofre — two per reactor, each with 9,727 alloy tubes — function something like a car radiator, which controls heat in the vehicle’s engine. The generator tubes circulate hot, radioactive water from the reactors, which is used to make steam to turn turbines that produce electricity.

Overall, investigators found wear from friction and vibration in 15,000 places, in varying degrees, in 3,401 tubes inside the four replacement generators.

SoCal Edison plans to permanently shut down San Onofre nuclear plant

Sounds a little more serious than a couple of tubes…

285 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:32:03am

re: #284 blueraven

SoCal Edison plans to permanently shut down San Onofre nuclear plant

Sounds a little more serious than a couple of tubes…

Their internet was poorly designed for the local conditions apparently.

286 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:33:52am

re: #285 Feline Fearless Leader

Their internet was poorly designed for the local conditions apparently.

We’ll just send a bunch of stoners around to check to see if anything is burning that’s not a joint…

287 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:34:59am

Medco Pharmacy sucks!

Now it is 3 weeks since my dr. called in refills for my meds and Medco has pushed off the shipping date FOR THE THIRD FREAKING TIME. There is no excuse, it is past the date that the scripts are eligible for a refill.

288 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:36:53am

Medco is like one of those third-world pharmacy scams that send out Spam emails, except that it’s covered by insurance.

289 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:38:14am

re: #288 Vicious Babushka

Medco is like one of those third-world pharmacy scams that send out Spam emails, except that it’s covered by insurance.

The kind that can only exist in a country with a dysfunctional health care system…

290 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:40:12am

re: #287 Vicious Babushka

Wow, I used to get my refills through them and don’t recall any specific problems. But it looks like my refills are done by some other company now. Kind of hard to tell, with companies being subsidiaries of other companies, etc. But if I had to wait 3 weeks I would not be happy.

291 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:41:03am

re: #277 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Well he’s safe, because they certainly can’t crawl up his ass with his head inside it.

292 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:41:50am

re: #277 Vicious Babushka

Yeah, the government should be able to invade a woman’s body but not be able to collect phone records. Derp.

293 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:42:52am

re: #277 Vicious Babushka

The rebranding project appears to be going well. /

294 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:47:29am

re: #277 Vicious Babushka

What war on women? /

295 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:48:45am

re: #294 Bulworth

What war on women? /

The next way to cover for this is to pass a bill requiring an Obamaphone to be installed in every uterus.
///

296 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:54:16am

re: #269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Really? Wasn’t there a letter from an Edison engineer saying that they really don’t, and if they proceed with the fix the problem will reoccur?

The latest thing I can find is someone from the company saying they’re not sure if reactor 3 could be scrapped or not. Is there something more recent from the company saying that they really have a handle on the problems and assurance that it won’t happen again?

What I have seen is that the best fix would be a new set of redesigned tubes, courtesy of the manufacturer who is responsible. Or perhaps a return to the lower capacity design. The suggested cheaper fix (from Edison) is to plug enough of the tubes that it becomes a lessened capacity and lessened risk machine. Options actually abound. Mitsubishi is responsible for the current tube failures.

What I see there is a facility and location that is (or was until today) licensed nuclear facility for now and the future. Putting a safer design in, perhaps hyperion designs or thorium designs or whatever future engineering would indicate.

if you really understand climate change data, you most likely understand how badly we need to deploy all the low and no CO tech we can for energy. That means nuclear. Nothing else offers the scale we need for now.

The math is beyond me, but I’d love to see how much gas oil or coal will be burned to offset this closure. Because the atmospheric gas imbalance is the harm we have now as a certainty. The data is strong in favor of well run nuclear energy. Of course energy tech is so vast and so necessary that caveat applies to them all.

297 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:55:51am
298 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:11:12am

PROTEKT ARE CONSTITION!!11


299 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:13:55am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

FREEDOM OF TWEET!!!!!!!

300 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:14:33am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

They now know every movement, conversation, and strategy.


We know how to spell, too.

301 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:14:36am

re: #277 Vicious Babushka

DERP

Resentful and misogonystic is no way to go through life, son.

302 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:16:22am

re: #297 Vicious Babushka

Here’s the transcript from the short NPR interview with one of the current College Republicans leaders on “All Things Considered”.
npr.org

And this is a link (I think) to the actual report.
Scribd Document

(95 pages. And I am only partially done scanning through it.)

303 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:16:22am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

TGDN, meet the Patriot Act. Patriot Act, meet TGDN

304 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:16:42am

re: #301 Bulworth

@benshapiro Basically, the only area where government cannot now intrude is a woman’s uterus when there is a living baby inside it.

…so let’s fix that too?

Ben, your rebranding is showing.

305 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:21:10am
Well, the constition myself and many others defend

I hope Cowboys Nation is a soldier or Civil Rights lawyer.

306 GunstarGreen  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:21:42am

re: #58 Kragar

Every Tea bagger complaining about this is a hypocritical knob gobbler

FTFY

307 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:22:08am

re: #303 Bulworth

TGDN, meet the Patriot Act. Patriot Act, meet TGDN

Somehow, the Patriot Act doesn’t seem like such a cool idea when you’re not looking at a picture of manly men strutting around aircraft carriers in their codpieces.

(did I say that out loud?)

308 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:22:13am
We may be past the tipping point of getting our country and Constition back. They now know every movement, conversation, and strategy.
— Salt (@captainanglin)

And now we’s have all the bullets and ammo. //

309 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:23:16am

re: #308 Bulworth

And now we’s have all the bullets and ammo. //

That is the implied dogwhistle call to armed rebellion, yes…

310 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:30:17am

Going through the College Republican report I cited in an earlier comment.

Got to their sourcing for the surveys they quoted heavily and noticed that the surveys are primarily of *marginal voters*; e.g. they didn’t survey voters at large, they simply looked for the marginal 10-20% of 18-29 year-olds they think can be swayed to the GOP.

At least the report did cover in part that GOP policies themselves could be an issue. Though, in my opinion, they hedged heavily against a policy being “wrong” and I note that their final recommendations basically ignored any criticism in this regard. The standard platitudes about “reduced spending and fixing the debt” without mentioning the potential need to raise taxes.

The elephant is still in the room with the GOP and they are refusing to look at it.

311 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:31:55am

I’m trying to look on the bright side of all this: if electing a center-right black president means that a bunch of unthinkingly right-wing yoohaws start questioning their belief systems, (slight) progress will have been made.

312 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:34:28am

We can sleep easy now:

Bachmann: “I’m not going silent”

cbsnews.com

313 Mattand  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:41:17am

re: #312 Decatur Deb

We can sleep easy now:

Bachmann: “I’m not going silent”

cbsnews.com

Michelle, you know that saying about “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt “?

314 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:41:59am

re: #313 Mattand

Michelle, you know that saying about “It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt “?

There was never any doubt.

315 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:43:52am

re: #312 Decatur Deb

We can sleep easy now:

Bachmann: “I’m not going silent”

cbsnews.com

Empty barrels make the loudest noise.

316 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:45:12am

OBAMA’S 1 BILLION BULLET PRIVATE ARMY IS ROUNDING UP MURICANS IN DHS MRAP TANKS USING NSA PHONE DATA AND SENDING THEM TO FEMA CAMPS!!

317 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:50:49am

re: #275 blueraven

San Onofre security demands video be deleted

Read more…

I like the last sentence:

Southern California Edison”s spokeswoman said a security officer “responded conservatively when he indicated to a television crew his preference that they stop filming and delete their video.”

What does ‘responded conservatively’ mean? From the context, and from recent observations of conservatives, I’m guessing it means ‘acted like an asshole’.

318 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:52:05am

[Faints]

319 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:54:14am

re: #318 Gus

[Faints]

::hoists Gus up onto fainting couch, picks up pearls and monocle, fetches smelling salts::

320 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:56:11am

re: #319 wrenchwench

::hoists Gus up onto fainting couch, picks up pearls and monocle, fetches smelling salts::

Don’t forget teh medicinal whiskey!

[Faints again.]

321 Mattand  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:58:13am

re: #319 wrenchwench

::hoists Gus up onto fainting couch, picks up pearls and monocle, fetches smelling salts::

LOL, I had a regular call me “strange” for calling him a pearl clutcher, after a continuous stream of “OMG THIS COULD BE MOOSLIMS ATTACKING” tweets. Claims to have never heard of it before.

I went to look a definition up in Google to post for him, but the results were, shall we say, unique.

322 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:00:54am

re: #320 Gus

Don’t forget teh medicinal whiskey!

[Faints again.]

::pours whiskey in Gus’s ear::

What? You could choke if I poured it in your mouth when you’re unconscious!

323 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:02:08am
324 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:02:29am

re: #322 wrenchwench

::pours whiskey in Gus’s ear::

What? You could choke if I poured it in your mouth when you’re unconscious!

:P

That works.

[Faints again.]

325 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:03:29am

re: #321 Mattand

LOL, I had a regular call me “strange” for calling him a pearl clutcher, after a continuous stream of “OMG THIS COULD BE MOOSLIMS ATTACKING” tweets. Claims to have never heard of it before.

I went to look a definition up in Google to post for him, but the results were, shall we say, unique.

Maybe your Google is different from mine.

326 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:06:51am

NSA PHONE SNOOPING WILL ONLY MEAN ONE THING!! INTERNMENT CAMPS FOR WHITE PEOPLE!!11TY //

327 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:11:16am

Jesus fucking Christ:

“I wish the hurricane hadn’t have happened when it did because it gave the president a chance to be presidential,” Romney said in reference to Hurricane Sandy. “But, you know, you don’t look back and worry about each little thing.”

You unbelievably self-absorbed ass.

328 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:13:22am

Uh oh. Must focus on work today. Let me procrastinate some more first.

329 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:13:58am

re: #327 erik_t

Jesus fucking Christ:

You unbelievably self-absorbed ass.

Never mind that people DIED and other people became HOMELESS.

330 Stanghazi  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:15:59am

re: #327 erik_t

Jesus fucking Christ:

You unbelievably self-absorbed ass.

re: #329 Vicious Babushka

Never mind that people DIED and other people became HOMELESS.

But the Romney’s have a new pony!!

331 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:16:08am

re: #329 Vicious Babushka

Never mind that people DIED and other people became HOMELESS.

Oh, well, you don’t go worrying about each little thing.

332 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:16:44am

re: #328 Gus

Uh oh. Must focus on work today. Let me procrastinate some more first.

One of my brothers always uses a witty signature on his emails. For a while it was ‘We’ll do the procrastination first, so at least that will get done.’

333 bratwurst  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:17:26am
334 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:21:00am

re: #332 wrenchwench

One of my brothers always uses a witty signature on his emails. For a while it was ‘We’ll do the procrastination first, so at least that will get done.’

Yeah. I also let my phone stay dead for 2 days! :O

335 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:23:35am

re: #332 wrenchwench

One of my brothers always uses a witty signature on his emails. For a while it was ‘We’ll do the procrastination first, so at least that will get done.’

My favorite sig to use in my newsgroups days was:

FOR SALE: Perpetual motion starter. Only used once!

336 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:24:23am

I have 12 tabs open and the computer still functions! Woohoo!

337 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:24:43am


Outrage!

338 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:25:07am


Outrage!

339 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:26:31am


Outrage!

340 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:28:00am
341 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:28:21am

re: #316 Gus

OBAMA’S 1 BILLION BULLET PRIVATE ARMY IS ROUNDING UP MURICANS IN DHS MRAP TANKS USING NSA PHONE DATA AND SENDING THEM TO FEMA CAMPS!!

You filled up someone’s “talking point bingo” card in one go right there. You just forgot a Benghazi reference.

342 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:31:08am

re: #341 Feline Fearless Leader

You filled up someone’s “talking point bingo” card in one go right there. You just forgot a Benghazi reference.

Benghazi is the free space in the middle

343 GunstarGreen  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:31:09am

You know what I’d really like to see, as part of the media coverage of all of this outrageous outrage?

One day, one solid 24-hour period, consisting of back-to-back, uninterrupted replays of video of the sessions where the scumbuckets in congress voted for the PATRIOT act. And then voted to re-authorize it. And then voted to re-authorize it again.

It would preferably be followed by a section where every one of them that’s acting outraged and surprised now is tied to a post on capitol hill and publicly whipped. No less than 100 lashes each.

344 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:33:20am

re: #343 GunstarGreen

I agree, except I’m not into the violence part. I am however willing to substitute lots and lots of rotten produce for the whips. While they’re wearing their expensive suits and shoes.

345 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:34:57am

re: #327 erik_t

Jesus fucking Christ:

You unbelievably self-absorbed ass.

Sometimes I think that this nation dodged a bigger bullet with him losing thatn we did with Palin. Other times, I know we did. Asshat.

346 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:37:10am

re: #338 Gus

Outrage!

Boehner: See, POTUS is mean to us!!

/

347 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:37:12am
348 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:38:50am

re: #345 William Barnett-Lewis

Sometimes I think that this nation dodged a bigger bullet with him losing thatn we did with Palin. Other times, I know we did. Asshat.

100% agree. If nothing else, Palin was not at the top of the ticket.

Romney really is a soulless corporate movie villain.

349 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:39:41am

re: #348 EPR-radar

100% agree. If nothing else, Palin was not at the top of the ticket.

Romney really is a soulless corporate movie villain.

He would so totally loot Social Security and move it all into his offshore bank account.

350 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:40:32am
351 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:43:06am

re: #348 EPR-radar

100% agree. If nothing else, Palin was not at the top of the ticket.

Romney really is a soulless corporate movie villain.

Soulless corporate movie villains are usually competent, though.

352 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:44:59am

re: #351 erik_t

Soulless corporate movie villains are usually competent, though.

I’m prepared to believe Romney has the skills to be a competent soulless corporate movie villain. Fortunately, this is not yet a sufficient skill set for winning the US presidency.

353 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:46:50am

re: #350 wrenchwench

Right, because it was a “just” government that allowed slavery and screwed over the American Indians and didn’t allow women to vote, and…

354 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:47:10am

The NSA is worse than slavery!

Derp.

355 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:47:37am
356 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:49:23am

re: #355 Vicious Babushka

Buzzfeed. Blech.

357 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:49:42am

re: #341 Feline Fearless Leader

You filled up someone’s “talking point bingo” card in one go right there. You just forgot a Benghazi reference.

That’s the free space.

358 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:49:59am

re: #355 Vicious Babushka

Snaps? Really? I listened to the whole thing and was laughing along with everyone in the room. He was totally deadpan and making light of it.

359 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:50:31am
360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:51:46am

re: #296 Political Atheist

I’m pro-nuclear, but that doesn’t mean I want to lobby to keep open a for-profit nuke plant where the oversight has been shoddy and gigantic problems have occurred, workers have said they’re prevented from reporting on safety problems, and while things have been found to be ‘improved’ an engineer alleged something that, if true, would bring criminal charges.

If you’re talking about putting a new design in there you pretty much might as well build it from the ground up.

361 Flounder  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:52:15am

I had some fun with this maybe y’all will too!
How Americans say certain words:
timesunion.com

362 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:52:31am

re: #356 Gus

Buzzfeed. Blech.

Great for pictures of DIY hackery and/or cool vacation spots and/or gifs of cute animals. Otherwise, I can find equivalent thought and analysis scrawled on the bathroom wall at the local high school.

363 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:52:46am

re: #348 EPR-radar

100% agree. If nothing else, Palin was not at the top of the ticket.

Romney really is a soulless corporate movie villain.

It would be more fun if we could at least get a Hans Gruber as a movie villain for President. (Or his Sheriff of Nottingham… !)

364 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:53:45am

re: #360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m pro-nuclear, but that doesn’t mean I want to lobby to keep open a for-profit nuke plant where the oversight has been shoddy and gigantic problems have occurred, workers have said they’re prevented from reporting on safety problems, and while things have been found to be ‘improved’ an engineer alleged something that, if true, would bring criminal charges.

If you’re talking about putting a new design in there you pretty much might as well build it from the ground up.

Besides that, the location of San Onofre is some of the greatest beach in southern California. I hope it can be reclaimed for public use.

365 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:53:57am

re: #355 Vicious Babushka

What a bunch of babies these people are. Snaps? He never met a Mom who is just about fed UP TO HERE with the kids fighting in the car. That’s snapping. This was at the most good natured ribbing. Buzzfeed sucks. How long before this makes the rounds of the usual suspects?

366 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:54:27am

re: #346 Bulworth

Why is GOP majority oversight of the NSA supposed to make me feel better about it?! I may have come to an opposite conclusion about that. (half sarc)

367 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:55:18am

re: #365 A Mom Anon

What a bunch of babies these people are. Snaps? He never met a Mom who is just about fed UP TO HERE with the kids fighting in the car. That’s snapping. This was at the most good natured ribbing. Buzzfeed sucks. How long before this makes the rounds of the usual suspects?

I LOL’d at “decapitates staffer, shits down neck, streaks face in the blood of the slain, now has power over death itself.” That’s just so badass.

368 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:55:46am

re: #193 Sol Berdinowitz

Sounds like we have to repeat the whole cycle of history again…the one that the Enlightenment tried to break by elevating Reason above Belief.

Youtube Video

Although as John Ralston Saul points out without balancing traits such as ethics, memory and imagination Reason is as sterile and dangerous as Belief

369 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:56:05am
370 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:57:50am

re: #328 Gus

Nah. Anything but that.

371 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:58:07am

Awesome comedy on the radio this morning.

Rush kept going on how he’s not comfortable with any President having the power to order searches like the NSAs.

Funny shit.

372 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:58:26am

re: #359 Vicious Babushka

They’re Very Serious.

373 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:58:27am

re: #367 Vicious Babushka

It is funny, but dear lord, conservatives claim to be such heroic manly men, doing manly things in manly ways. My little grandkids are tougher than most of these brats. Snaps? I just, I can’t…

374 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:59:27am

re: #369 Gus

Yep. Just heard.

abcnews.go.com

375 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:00:22am

re: #369 Gus

Shanked?

376 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:00:54am

re: #374 Dr Lizardo

Yep. Just heard.

abcnews.go.com

Good.

I remember living in terror for weeks back in the 80s when this guy was on the loose.

377 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:01:01am

re: #369 Gus

378 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:01:29am

re: #375 Vicious Babushka

Shanked?

No details

379 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:01:47am

re: #377 wrenchwench

BIH, burn in hell

381 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:03:35am

re: #376 Kragar

Good.

I remember living in terror for weeks back in the 80s when this guy was on the loose.

Same here; I also still vividly remember the Hillside Strangler(s) and the news coverage of that as well.

382 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:05:25am

re: #360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m pro-nuclear, but that doesn’t mean I want to lobby to keep open a for-profit nuke plant where the oversight has been shoddy and gigantic problems have occurred, workers have said they’re prevented from reporting on safety problems, and while things have been found to be ‘improved’ an engineer alleged something that, if true, would bring criminal charges.

If you’re talking about putting a new design in there you pretty much might as well build it from the ground up.

Without profit, nothing can be developed further. I personally see profit as good unless it in excess or exploitation. Profit pays bills. R&D. Pays back loans. I’m lobbying to keep a necessary asset running and manage it well. As far as new designs going in “may as well start from scratch” I doubt you understand what that means on the ground. Getting a site approved is a huge hurdle. We have a site now. There are no approved sites for ground up construction in Ca. Nada. Zip.

It’s easy to let the desire for perfect management become the enemy of good management. The critics are masters of this method which to my mind is as illogical as DARVO.

Gigantic problems? Not really. There are solutions to each and every incident and missed procedure. None of these internal problems are anything but human error. Engineering can fix the rest.

383 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:06:06am

re: #380 Kragar

And a “Marxist revolutionary”! The trifecta!

384 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:07:51am
385 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:08:41am

Breaking news: Texas woman arrested in ricin letters to Mayor Bloomberg.

386 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:08:47am

re: #382 Political Atheist

It’s easy to let the desire for perfect management become the enemy of good management. The critics are masters of this method which to my mind is as illogical as DARVO.

Gigantic problems? Not really. There are solutions to each and every incident and missed procedure. None of these internal problems are anything but human error. Engineering can fix the rest.

Where are they putting the waste?

387 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:10:19am

What amuses me about this whole thing is that people are surprised. This is what all the fear and hysteria immediately after 9/11 has led to. And our reps and senators, on both sides of the aisle, voted to allow this shit to happen and to authorize it in many cases.

388 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:10:33am
389 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:10:57am

How did we get to where a death at a coal electric plant is taken so much less seriously for the technology than at a nuclear plant? This is not logical or practical or sensible.

All this alleged bad management. that must mean more injuries and deaths at the plant right? Except that is not the case.

the9billion.com

Seth Godin recently posted this simplified chart, from an altogether more complicated one. He maintains that this is a simple yet non-exaggerated version of the complicated one. The point is that for each person killed by nuclear power generation, 4,000 die from coal. This is adjusted for how much power is produced by each method of power generation.

He also points out that if we were to take into account such things as deaths from environmental impacts yet unmeasured, due to climate change caused by fossil fuel emissions for instance, the chart would skew even more.

390 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:12:50am

re: #386 wrenchwench

Where are they putting the waste?

Glad you brought that up. in a tactical triumph, the critics that opposed each and every storage scheme have prevailed, despite a lot of science on the side of the proposal.

The enviro advocates say we have to have storage, then stop every site. I call that well played. Well played indeed. We got played.

391 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:13:56am

re: #386 wrenchwench

Where are they putting the waste?

Not into the air we breathe, which is more than you can say for certain other power industries.

393 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:21:02am

re: #382 Political Atheist

Without profit, nothing can be developed further.

What are you talking about? There’s plenty of state-owned nuke facilities in the world.

I personally see profit as good unless it in excess or exploitation. Profit pays bills. R&D. Pays back loans. I’m lobbying to keep a necessary asset running and manage it well. As far as new designs going in “may as well start from scratch” I doubt you understand what that means on the ground. Getting a site approved is a huge hurdle. We have a site now. There are no approved sites for ground up construction in Ca. Nada. Zip.

Gigantic problems? Not really. There are solutions to each and every incident and missed procedure. None of these internal problems are anything but human error. Engineering can fix the rest.

Okay, I must have missed when you became an expert on nuke plant construction and operation. You’re asserting a lot of authority there. Do you have anything to back up these claims of expertise you’re making other than looking into this in your spare time?

394 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:21:38am

re: #390 Political Atheist

Glad you brought that up. in a tactical triumph, the critics that opposed each and every storage scheme have prevailed, despite a lot of science on the side of the proposal.

The enviro advocates say we have to have storage, then stop every site. I call that well played. Well played indeed. We got played.

Played, maybe. That doesn’t mean there isn’t still a huge problem for nukes that hasn’t been surmounted yet. And I don’t think the blame all belongs to ‘enviro advocates’. Some of it goes to the industry for pushing inadequate sites.

395 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:22:03am

re: #391 erik_t

Not into the air we breathe, which is more than you can say for certain other power industries.

Unless you count the mining of the uranium.

396 GunstarGreen  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:23:03am

re: #377 wrenchwench

re: #379 Kragar

RIG, Rot In the Ground

There’s no such thing as hell, so.

397 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:26:28am

re: #382 Political Atheist

Without profit, nothing can be developed further. I personally see profit as good unless it in excess or exploitation. Profit pays bills. R&D. Pays back loans.

This is not true. Profit is what is left after these things are paid for - it goes to shareholders, who are typically wealthy individuals (ceteris paribus, if you own shares in a company, you are wealthier than a non-shareholder).

The idea that profit is necessary for running a company is false. The promise of profit attracts investment, that’s all.

398 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:31:58am

re: #394 wrenchwench

Played, maybe. That doesn’t mean there isn’t still a huge problem for nukes that hasn’t been surmounted yet. And I don’t think the blame all belongs to ‘enviro advocates’. Some of it goes to the industry for pushing inadequate sites.

Modern nukes are really a generation, an order of magnitude simpler and better. We really could build a robust, safe design that we could put over the country.

It is a stopgap measure, since uranium is also a limited resource, but it could be a very important one.

399 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:40:47am

re: #393 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

What are you talking about? There’s plenty of state-owned nuke facilities in the world.

Okay, I must have missed when you became an expert on nuke plant construction and operation. You’re asserting a lot of authority there. Do you have anything to back up these claims of expertise you’re making other than looking into this in your spare time?

I’m not an expert, just reasonably well read like most of us around here.

400 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:47:13am

re: #399 Political Atheist

I’m not an expert, just reasonably well read like most of us around here.

Okay. So when I read this stuff on the plant, I get conflicting stories. I don’t see clearly that everything has a solution. I’m also someone interested in the topic. I’m convincable. You’re alleging that all the concern is misplaced and everything is fine. What is your source for this? How have I been misinformed? Show me, and I’ll believe.

And again, do you want nukes to compete in the real market, to have to purchase insurance on the open market? They’d have to start their own escrow fund, basically, because there isn’t anyone who would insure them. Only government-backed or directly-from-the-government insurers will.

401 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:53:34am

re: #397 iossarian

This is not true. Profit is what is left after these things are paid for - it goes to shareholders, who are typically wealthy individuals (ceteris paribus, if you own shares in a company, you are wealthier than a non-shareholder).

The idea that profit is necessary for running a company is false. The promise of profit attracts investment, that’s all.

Nobody said NET profit. Which is not a bad thing either by nature. Capitalism is a good thing when not abused. Net profit does much more than merely attract investment from outside. It provides funds for R&D, expansion and raises.

402 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:58:05am

re: #401 Political Atheist

Nobody said NET profit. Which is not a bad thing either by nature. Capitalism is a good thing when not abused. Net profit does much more than merely attract investment from outside. It provides funds for R&D, expansion and raises.

Please don’t misuse the word “profit”. If you run a company, you can cancel payroll. This will increase your profit temporarily. You can also lay off your R&D staff. This will also increase your profit temporarily.

You can pay down debt. This reduces your profit temporarily but may be a good thing in the long term.

I find it annoying when people who are supposedly pro-business create confusion about what simple business terms actually mean.

403 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:58:50am

re: #401 Political Atheist

Nobody said NET profit. Which is not a bad thing either by nature. Capitalism is a good thing when not abused. Net profit does much more than merely attract investment from outside. It provides funds for R&D, expansion and raises.

There’s plenty of room for private profit in public-owned nukes. We can still hire private firms to build them. There can be the same R&D pipeline as feeds the military— well, while we’re at it, we should go over that pipeline, because it’s gotten way out of whack. But anyway, nobody debates that the government-private partnership on military tech has produced great innovations.

404 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:00:44am

re: #400 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The real market? A real market would also make coal and oil store their waste. So far (mostly) our lungs and the atmosphere are the storage areas.

Yes there are conflicting stories. Always are in an issue this contentious. What do you think of the links already provided?

like this Page.

Or these
the9billion.com

forbes.com

Hyperion to build nuclear pod at DOE test site

405 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:01:18am

The backbone of nuclear power research in this country is in government and university labs, not in private enterprise.

406 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:01:31am

re: #403 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I am unconcerned with what the best management structure needs to be as long as we get there.

407 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:03:13am

re: #404 Political Atheist

The real market? A real market would also make coal and oil store their waste. So far (mostly) our lungs and the atmosphere are the storage areas.

Sure. I’m happy to make coal and oil store their waste. Nuclear would still not be a viable economic option, because the insurance would still be prohibitive.

Yes there are conflicting stories. Always are in an issue this contentious. What do you think of the links already provided?

What the hell are you talking about? I’m pro-nuclear power. I’m asking you to defend this particular plant, not the concept in general.

Dude, what the fuck? How can you miss that I’m pro-nuclear power?

408 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:03:46am

re: #402 iossarian

Please don’t misuse the word “profit”. If you run a company, you can cancel payroll. This will increase your profit temporarily. You can also lay off your R&D staff. This will also increase your profit temporarily.

You can pay down debt. This reduces your profit temporarily but may be a good thing in the long term.

I find it annoying when people who are supposedly pro-business create confusion about what simple business terms actually mean.

You are confusing our philosophical difference with accounting terms misunderstnding. Today I’m not going to debate that issue. I have no problem with net profit existing apart from in excess or exploitative. You obviously do have a issue with a firm making any profit. Okay we differ.

409 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:04:21am

re: #408 Political Atheist

. You obviously do have a issue with a firm making any profit. Okay we differ.

Stupid cheap bullshit shot.

410 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:05:12am

re: #407 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sure. I’m happy to make coal and oil store their waste. Nuclear would still not be a viable economic option, because the insurance would still be prohibitive.

What the hell are you talking about? I’m pro-nuclear power. I’m asking you to defend this particular plant, not the concept in general.

Dude, what the fuck? How can you miss that I’m pro-nuclear power?

Where exactly did I say you are anti nuke? (out for a few)

411 iossarian  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:07:26am

re: #408 Political Atheist

You are confusing our philosophical difference with accounting terms misunderstnding.

Not really - you initially said that profit was necessary for R&D. That’s more than an accounting term misunderstanding. Profit is what is left over after you’ve paid for stuff like R&D. If you ran a company in a technological field with the idea that R&D was eating into your profit margin, you would not run it for very long.

I have no problem with net profit existing apart from in excess or exploitative.

Do you have a problem with private individuals making a profit from a company that is guaranteed against failure by the government, in the form of insurance that would otherwise be unaffordable?

412 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:08:56am

re: #410 Political Atheist

Where exactly did I say you are anti nuke? (out for a few)

Hrm. I don’t recall claiming you said I was anti-nuke. I asked you how you could miss I was pro-nuke. And I asked that because you provided me a bunch of general links saying that nuclear power is a better technology than coal and gas etc. in response to my request for you to prove that this particular nuke plant has solveable engineering problems.

If you thought I was pro-nuke, why feed me a bunch of general pro-nuke sources?

Do you have a source to back up your opinion on the specific plant we were discussing?

413 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:12:03am

re: #404 Political Atheist

In fact, you quoted a page in which I speak up in defense of nukes.

414 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:37:53am

re: #412 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yes, I agree with Edison in the plan they had. Repair and re engineer as necessary according to solid engineering standards. This link shows the engineering debate between Edison and Mitsubishi. I do not see anything that precludes a fix, apart from worried critics.
articles.latimes.com

415 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:39:42am

re: #411 iossarian

Bigger net profits allow expanded R&D. Management choice.
I have no problem with a reasonable profit in the circumstances you describe.

416 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:42:00am

re: #414 Political Atheist

Yes, I agree with Edison in the plan they had. Repair and re engineer as necessary according to solid engineering standards. This link shows the engineering debate between Edison and Mitsubishi. I do not see anything that precludes a fix, apart from worried critics.
articles.latimes.com

What makes you confident they’ll get it right this time?

And that’s not the only problem the plant had, either. What about the workers who said they were coerced into not coming forwards with problems?

417 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:42:07am

re: #413 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

So we have little to disagree on. How to fix as opposed to whether to fix it. Now who assesses the environmental costs of burning gas and oil to replace the lost kilowatts in the California summer season? Where can we find that data to discuss?

418 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:43:26am

re: #416 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

What makes you confident they’ll get it right this time?

And that’s not the only problem the plant had, either. What about the workers who said they were coerced into not coming forwards with problems?

I addressed that above when I pointed out management and engineering solutions are possible. That clearly admits changes may be /are needed. So execute the necessary policies.

419 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:45:40am

re: #417 Political Atheist

So we have little to disagree on. How to fix as opposed to whether to fix it.

Um, no. As I said: this is an older generation plant with a bad operational history and workers who alleged coercion in not coming forward. They’ve improved, but they’re still not doing well in recent assessments.

I do not agree in general with refurbushing old nukes. I want to build new ones. You’ll find little support from me in duct-taping old plants.

I addreesses that above when I pointed out management and engineering solutions are possible. That clearly admits changes may be /are needed. So execute the necessary policies.

And what are those? How will this happen? What will change?

420 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:47:15am

Obdicut-This is not aimed at you but at many of the critics works I have read. okay?

It easy to discern the pro nuke but NIMBY sentiment that applies out in the public. We all want solutions to CO ruination, as long as it’s far far away or thought to be perfect rather than merely good.

421 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:50:03am

re: #420 Political Atheist

That’s great. That says nothing about the situation, which is where a nuke plant was badly damaged by improper design, and workers have alleged coercion in not coming forwards with problems. Shit like this makes NIMBYism worse. Why should people living near this place trust the new fix?

I support building fancy new nukes.

422 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:54:09am

re: #419 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Um, no. As I said: this is an older generation plant with a bad operational history and workers who alleged coercion in not coming forward. They’ve improved, but they’re still not doing well in recent assessments.

I do not agree in general with refurbushing old nukes. I want to build new ones. You’ll find little support from me in duct-taping old plants.

And what are those? How will this happen? What will change?

I seem to be in repeat mode. The plant part that failed is the new part. the core is fine. When I say re engineered I do not mean duct tape.

I mean Mitsubishi fixes where they failed. Maybe go back to the lesser capacity. Maybe replace those steam pipes entirely. None of what I call for resembles duct tape. Not sure why you would characterize what I post like that, glad I could clear that up.

How seriously do you regard the consequences of gas and oil burning to replace those kilowatts?

423 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:55:56am

Despite safety and other concerns, nuclear power saves lives, greenhouse gas emissions

Global use of nuclear power has prevented about 1.84 million air pollution-related deaths and release of 64 billion tons of greenhouse gases that would have resulted from burning coal and other fossil fuels, a new study concludes. It appears in the ACS journal Environmental Science & Technology.

Pushker A. Kharecha and James E. Hansen state that nuclear power has the potential to help control both global climate change and illness and death associated with air pollution. That potential exists, they say, despite serious questions about safety, disposal of radioactive waste and diversion of nuclear material for weapons. Concerned that the Fukushima accident in Japan could overshadow the benefits of nuclear energy, they performed an analysis of nuclear power’s benefits in reducing carbon dioxide emissions and air pollution deaths.

The study concluded that nuclear power already has had a major beneficial impact, based upon calculations of prevented mortality and greenhouse gas emissions for the period 1971-2009. Nuclear power could prevent from 420,000 to 7 million additional deaths by mid-century, and prevent emission of 80-240 billion tons of the greenhouse gases linked to global warming, the study found. “By contrast, we assess that large-scale expansion of unconstrained natural gas use would not mitigate the climate problem and would cause far more deaths than the expansion of nuclear power,” it notes. If the role of nuclear power declines significantly in the next 20-30 years, Kharecha added, the International Energy Agency predicts that achieving the major reductions in greenhouse gas emissions that are required to mitigate climate change would require “heroic achievements” in the use of emerging low-carbon technologies, which have yet to be proven.
###

The authors acknowledge funding from the Lenfest Foundation and the Columbia University-NASA Cooperative Agreement.

424 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:56:52am

re: #422 Political Atheist

I seem to be in repeat mode. The plant part that failed is the new part. the core is fine. When I say re engineered I do not mean duct tape.

You mean replacing entirely a part that previously failed, provided by the same company that did it in the first place. Right?

I mean Mitsubishi fixes where they failed. Maybe go back to the lesser capacity. Maybe replace those steam pipes entirely. None of what I call for resembles duct tape. Not sure why you would characterize what I post like that, glad I could clear that up.

Yeah, it’s almost like duct-tape is an idiom or something.

How seriously do you regard the consequences of gas and oil burning to replace those kilowatts?

Very. Which is why we should build a new-plan nuke plant to replace this one.

Is there some problem you have with that?

425 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:57:10am

re: #423 Political Atheist

Why do you keep posting stuff as though I’m not pro-nuke?

426 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 11:59:34am

re: #425 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
We again have a disconnect between my actual post and your excessively skeptical view of same.

427 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:01:25pm

re: #426 Political Atheist

We again have a disconnect between my actual post and your excessively skeptical view of same.

What are you talking about? What excessively skeptical view?

Mitsubishi fucked this up once, right? Why do you trust they’re not going to fuck it up again? Why do you trust they accurately diagnosed the problem?

428 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 12:55:27pm

re: #427 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

What are you talking about? What excessively skeptical view?

Mitsubishi fucked this up once, right? Why do you trust they’re not going to fuck it up again? Why do you trust they accurately diagnosed the problem?

I find your approach today to be excessively skeptical. Disagree? Okay.

First it’s not just them, there is of course Edison, and the Nuclear regulatory commission. Mitsubishi has made lots of good equipment. I think they can replace what they screwed up. It’s industry, high pressure high technology metallurgy. If they can’t fix it maybe Bechtel or GE can.

429 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 1:02:18pm

re: #428 Political Atheist

I find your approach today to be excessively skeptical. Disagree? Okay.
.

Sure. That’s fine. It’s your opinion that I’m being overly skeptical when I question whether the people who fucked up won’t fuck up again.

To me, that seems like totally baseline skepticism.

First it’s not just them, there is of course Edison, and the Nuclear regulatory commission. Mitsubishi has made lots of good equipment. I think they can replace what they screwed up. It’s industry, high pressure high technology metallurgy. If they can’t fix it maybe Bechtel or GE can

Yeah, maybe. But again, Edison and the regulatory commission were there for the installation in the first place.

Why not concentrate on building new nukes instead of trying to save ones that already have broken down and where the workers have said they were coerced into not speaking out?

430 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 1:17:48pm

re: #429 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Why not concentrate on building new nukes instead of trying to save ones that already have broken down and where the workers have said they were coerced into not speaking out?

A management change fixes the employee issue, if in fact that’s not exaggerated. AFAIK that’s a 50/50 chance.

New nukes are not on the near term horizon for San Onofre, and none are close to done. When you re engineer the turbines and pipes and refuel the core you have a new plant. seems a shame to shut it all down instead of letting it run at a lower capacity to make electricity while the best fix is engineered. In the meantime the oil gas and coal burn and burn to replace the kilowatts lost from San Onofre and do their damage to us all.

MAYBE we have the NRC? That’s an example of your skepticism. And pointing out they were there already shows it again. As if they can’t or won’t learn as they go. The NTSB and FAA were there to certify every airliner that ever had a design issue. Shall we not fly?

BTW I’d cheerfully buy a house near San Onofre or at a new facility. I’d love to see many more nuclear plants right here in California to lead in reducing global climate change and those perils.

431 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 1:24:05pm

re: #430 Political Atheist

A management change fixes the employee issue, if in fact that’s not exaggerated. AFAIK that’s a 50/50 chance.

It doesn’t fix it, it potentially fixes it. Coercion against workers from coming forwards with issues is a perennial problem.

New nukes are not on the near term horizon for San Onofre, and none are close to done. When you re engineer the turbines and pipes and refuel the core you have a new plant. seems a shame to shut it all down instead of letting it run at a lower capacity to make electricity while the best fix is engineered. In the meantime the oil gas and coal burn and burn to replace the kilowatts lost from San Onofre and do their damage to us all.

Or they fuck it up again.

MAYBE we have the NRC? That’s an example of your skepticism.

No, maybe Bechtel or GE can fix it if Mitsubishi can’t, Mr. Conclusion-Jumper.

The NTSB and FAA were there to certify every airliner that ever had a design issue. Shall we not fly?

Yeah, dude, I’m totally saying we shouldn’t fly.

This constant hyperbole makes it exhausting to talk to you. I fucking agree with you on pro-nuke stance and you still manage to find a way to talk down to me and act as though I’m being a wild-haired greenie. It’s depressing.

432 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 1:29:23pm

re: #431 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

That was analogy, not hyperbole. You are pro nuke overall, but really not at San Onofre. I have no intent to talk down to you at all. Your badgering style is fatiguing. Again your depression is just misplaced. And if I thought you were a wild haired greenie, well obviously you have no idea what I would write to someone who fit that description.

You never did address the issue of what the environmental and human costs are of replacing the San Onofre kilowatts with oil or gas or coal as compared to the risk of letting Edison restart at 70% like they wanted to for 5 months to learn the best solution. I think we are worse off at this point.

If I apply your logic about Edison to Boeing, would you have also distrusted Boeing engineers to fix the battery on the new model and the FAA? I see a good parallel. A for profit corporate giant has a flawed design subject to government oversight for the fix.

433 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 4:15:08am

re: #432 Political Atheist

That was analogy, not hyperbole. You are pro nuke overall, but really not at San Onofre. I have no intent to talk down to you at all. Your badgering style is fatiguing.

How am I badgering you? By asking you to directly support your claims? And yeah, being pro-nuke doesn’t mean I have to be pro-every-particular-nuke spot. And if you’re not trying to talk down to me, what the fuck is up with replying with these general “nukes are better than other forms of production” links when I ask for specific support about San Onofre?

You never did address the issue of what the environmental and human costs are of replacing the San Onofre kilowatts with oil or gas or coal as compared to the risk of letting Edison restart at 70% like they wanted to for 5 months to learn the best solution. I think we are worse off at this point.

I have no expertise in evaluating that risk. Neither do you.

If I apply your logic about Edison to Boeing, would you have also distrusted Boeing engineers to fix the battery on the new model and the FAA? I see a good parallel. A for profit corporate giant has a flawed design subject to government oversight for the fix.

It is possible for them to get the fix right. It is also possible for them to get the fix wrong. I don’t have any particular confidence that they will get it right or that they’ve accurately diagnosed the problem, because whey should I?

An independent review would be nice, separate from the groups involved in the problem in the first place— and that includes the regulators.

434 Political Atheist  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 9:35:45am

re: #433 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I have no expertise in evaluating that risk. Neither do you.

I had only a bit of Google skill, all that was needed. It is a fact the electrical power that San Onofre makes will be made elsewhere after shut down. The Page I put up the other day and links above have done the expert work for us both. Fossil fuels will burn instead of reactor fission. So when I look at that, I still want San Onofre properly managed and re engineered. I think the skilled people are out there and we do have the NRC. The locals and the climate would then enjoy the benefit of nuke power we do agree on.

Why did I say you are badgering these points? Because when I use phrases like proper repair, re-engineering you question them as if I were calling for the status quo. The words I used don’t fit that description.

Thanks to the critics a top to bottom core replacement with a newer design is off the table. Great suggestion but the obstacles are mounting not lessening. Yet another tactical triumph for the anti nuke crowd. They seek to set standards so high they become poison pills to stop the nuke before a crane arrives or a wrench turns. To the extent you echo those “must replace with a better design” efforts that can not overcome opposition-you fly in the face of your own pro nuke position.

This is not engineering, it’s the politics of the environmental movement that denies the science and pro nuke facts just like the creationists ignore evolution.

And if you’re not trying to talk down to me, what the fuck is up with replying with these general “nukes are better than other forms of production” links when I ask for specific support about San Onofre?

Because the benefits of nuclear power elsewhere actually do apply at S.O. Decade after decade of non CO electricity flowing to SoCal.

435 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 10:07:22am

re: #434 Political Atheist

I had only a bit of Google skill, all that was needed.

This is utterly untrue. I can’t believe that you think you can make such a massive risk/reward calculation by using Google.

Why did I say you are badgering these points? Because when I use phrases like proper repair, re-engineering you question them as if I were calling for the status quo. The words I used don’t fit that description.

You’re assuming that by calling for these things, that makes them happen. I’m asking you, for example, why you trust that Mitsubishi has accurately diagnosed the problem. You’re just confident they have.

To the extent you echo those “must replace with a better design” efforts that can not overcome opposition-you fly in the face of your own pro nuke position.

Nope. I just have a different position and a different standard. If ‘opposition is mounting’ then I have no fucking clue what we’re even talking about, nuclear is doomed. I don’t think it is, though, I think it can be overcome by a strong commitment to safe, reliable, standardized reactor design— and not by re-engaging in a project that’s had massive problems, allegations of coercion of workers, and still has Mitsubishi and the for-profit energy company at odds over the proposed fix.

That you can’t bring yourself to accept that this is a pro-nuke position is, yeah, again, depressing.

436 Political Atheist  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 10:28:12am

re: #435 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

No by calling for these things I am describing the scenario I support.

I shared from my Google a risk reward conclusion that I have confidence in after reading it. Seems reasonable enough once you understanding the share of data as intended.

The climate consequences of fossil fueled kilowatts compared to a particular nuke that has both a long record of production and is in need of changes, modifications. I trust that if Edison had been able to run the one unit at 70% they could then have best learned the best engineering solutions.

The following applies to San Onofre as a nuke.

forbes.com

But an energy’s deathprint, as it is called, is rarely discussed. The deathprint is the number of people killed by one kind of energy or another per kWhr produced and, like the carbon footprint, coal is the worst and wind and nuclear are the best. According to the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control, the National Academy of Science and many health studies over the last decade (NAS 2010), the adverse impacts on health become a significant effect for fossil fuel and biofuel/biomass sources (see especially Brian Wang for an excellent synopsis). In fact, the WHO has called biomass burning in developing countries a major global health issue (WHO int). The table below lists the mortality rate of each energy source as deaths per trillion kWhrs produced. The numbers are a combination of actual direct deaths and epidemiological estimates, and are rounded to two significant figures.

Energy Source Mortality Rate (deaths/trillionkWhr)

Coal - global average 170,000 (50% global electricity)

Coal - China 280,000 (75% China’s electricity)

Coal - U.S. 15,000 (44% U.S. electricity)

Oil 36,000 (36% of energy, 8% of electricity)

Natural Gas 4,000 (20% global electricity)

Biofuel/Biomass 24,000 (21% global energy)

Solar (rooftop) 440 (< 1% global electricity)

Wind 150 (~ 1% global electricity)

Hydro - global average 1,400 (15% global electricity)

Nuclear - global average 90 (17% global electricity w/Chern&Fukush)

437 Political Atheist  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 10:34:37am

Obdicut do you support the installation of the AP1000is design?

npr.org

“The AP1000 is a 1,100 megawatt electric pressurized-water reactor that includes passive safety features that would cool down the reactor after an accident without the need for electricity or human intervention.”


When I see a shut down and a shift to fossil that is the worst outcome IMO.
The best would be a new design. The workable compromise is fix whats wrong at S.O. run that design to it’s design life cycle end and then upgrade. Otherwise it’s fossil fuel for a decade or more for all those kilowatts.

438 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 11:08:59am

re: #436 Political Atheist

I am not going to respond to you as long as you keep citing these general argument about nuke vs. other sources, which I already agree with.

There’s no point.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 39 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
A Closer Look at the Eastman State Bar DecisionTaking a few minutes away from work things to read through the Eastman decision. As I'm sure many of you know, Eastman was my law school con law professor. I knew him pretty well because I was also running in ...
KGxvi
Yesterday
Views: 95 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1