Google Responds to Greenwald Report: What the …?

“Completely false”
Technology • Views: 27,231

At the official Google blog, co-founder Larry Page has an unambiguous response to the reports by the Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald and the Washington Post that Google agreed to give the NSA “direct access” to their data servers: Official Blog: What the …?

Dear Google users—

You may be aware of press reports alleging that Internet companies have joined a secret U.S. government program called PRISM to give the National Security Agency direct access to our servers. As Google’s CEO and Chief Legal Officer, we wanted you to have the facts.

First, we have not joined any program that would give the U.S. government—or any other government—direct access to our servers. Indeed, the U.S. government does not have direct access or a “back door” to the information stored in our data centers. We had not heard of a program called PRISM until yesterday.

Second, we provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law. Our legal team reviews each and every request, and frequently pushes back when requests are overly broad or don’t follow the correct process. Press reports that suggest that Google is providing open-ended access to our users’ data are false, period. Until this week’s reports, we had never heard of the broad type of order that Verizon received—an order that appears to have required them to hand over millions of users’ call records. We were very surprised to learn that such broad orders exist. Any suggestion that Google is disclosing information about our users’ Internet activity on such a scale is completely false.

Finally, this episode confirms what we have long believed—there needs to be a more transparent approach. Google has worked hard, within the confines of the current laws, to be open about the data requests we receive. We post this information on our Transparency Report whenever possible. We were the first company to do this. And, of course, we understand that the U.S. and other governments need to take action to protect their citizens’ safety—including sometimes by using surveillance. But the level of secrecy around the current legal procedures undermines the freedoms we all cherish.

UPDATE at 6/7/13 3:06:57 pm

Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg has a similar categorical denial: (337) Mark Zuckerberg - I Want to Respond Personally to the Outrageous…

I want to respond personally to the outrageous press reports about PRISM:

Facebook is not and has never been part of any program to give the US or any other government direct access to our servers. We have never received a blanket request or court order from any government agency asking for information or metadata in bulk, like the one Verizon reportedly received. And if we did, we would fight it aggressively. We hadn’t even heard of PRISM before yesterday.

When governments ask Facebook for data, we review each request carefully to make sure they always follow the correct processes and all applicable laws, and then only provide the information if is required by law. We will continue fighting aggressively to keep your information safe and secure.

We strongly encourage all governments to be much more transparent about all programs aimed at keeping the public safe. It’s the only way to protect everyone’s civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term.

UPDATE at 6/7/13 3:11:30 pm

Every single one of the companies identified in Greenwald’s original report has now unequivocally denied involvement in PRISM: Google, Facebook, Dropbox, Yahoo, Microsoft, Paltalk, AOL and Apple Deny Participation in NSA PRISM Surveillance Program.

UPDATE at 6/7/13 3:25:11 pm

The Washington Post is now backpedaling furiously on their version of the story: Washington Post Updates Spying Story.

UPDATE at 6/7/13 3:44:05 pm

Glenn Greenwald shares a little love with us:

Jump to bottom

159 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:45:14pm

Prairie Home Invasion!

2 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:49:38pm
3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:50:04pm
4 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:51:33pm

Mark Zuckerberg also released a nearly identical statement on Facebook:

facebook.com

I want to respond personally to the outrageous press reports about PRISM:

Facebook is not and has never been part of any program to give the US or any other government direct access to our servers. We have never received a blanket request or court order from any government agency asking for information or metadata in bulk, like the one Verizon reportedly received. And if we did, we would fight it aggressively. We hadn’t even heard of PRISM before yesterday.

When governments ask Facebook for data, we review each request carefully to make sure they always follow the correct processes and all applicable laws, and then only provide the information if is required by law. We will continue fighting aggressively to keep your information safe and secure.

We strongly encourage all governments to be much more transparent about all programs aimed at keeping the public safe. It’s the only way to protect everyone’s civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term.

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:51:53pm

Google, Apple, Microsoft and Facebook have all now unequivocally denied any involvement in the PRISM program.

6 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:55:47pm

Well, this sure was a thing.

7 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:56:33pm

Yahoo is also denying it.

8 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 2:57:56pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Yahoo is also denying it.

I have no doubt that the above-named companies have all been approached for various slices of data. The ridiculous conspiracies about the government installing back doors in public data centers, or this PRISM thing… Well, ridiculous is the right word for it.

9 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:01:04pm

Has Teh Twitters denied it? Because the NSA should be all over this shit.

10 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:02:14pm

re: #8 thedopefishlives

I have no doubt that the above-named companies have all been approached for various slices of data. The ridiculous conspiracies about the government installing back doors in public data centers, or this PRISM thing… Well, ridiculous is the right word for it.

I thought PRISM was some 70’s Canadian rock band.

Youtube Video

11 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:02:27pm

Of course they would deny it! They’re all in on it!
/

12 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:02:50pm

If we’re totally lliving under a fascist dictator tyranny, why are these people not in a real Gulag (never mind they aren’t even in Teh Twittergulag)?

13 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:04:00pm
14 jaunte  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:04:12pm

Uncounted nuts with body armor and assault rifles all set to go off stochastically, but the real threat is the Government collecting phone numbers.

15 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:04:55pm

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

Has Teh Twitters denied it? Because the NSA should be all over this shit.

Twitter wasn’t on the list.

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:05:31pm

This PRISM story is now looking like a complete fail. Somebody fed Greenwald some bogus information.

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:06:03pm

re: #10 Feline Fearless Leader

I thought PRISM was some 70’s Canadian rock band.

You can just hear the mullets in that music…

18 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:06:31pm

Fail Some PRISM Blues

19 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:06:44pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

This PRISM story is now looking like a complete fail. Somebody fed Greenwald some bogus information.

Yes!

20 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:06:59pm

re: #6 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Well, this sure was a thing.

Ha! Yeah it was fun while it lasted.

21 jaunte  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:07:15pm
22 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:07:39pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

This PRISM story is now looking like a complete fail. Somebody fed Greenwald some bogus information.

Or his sock puppet just lost its damn mind again.

23 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:08:36pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

This PRISM story is now looking like a complete fail. Somebody fed Greenwald some bogus information.

The Verizon court order story appears to be real, so if the PRISM story is completely made up, then whoever fed it to Greenwald/The Guardian chose their timing well.

24 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:10:31pm

re: #21 jaunte

I used to like Glenn when he wrote for Salon a while back but he seems to have become unhinged over the years. I have no problem with criticizing President Obama (he’s far from perfect), but it seems like Glenn has overreached with this NSA story.

And was his comment about President Obama raping a nun supposed to be funny?

thegrio.com

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:11:34pm

Every single one of the companies identified in Greenwald’s original report has now unequivocally denied involvement in PRISM: Google, Facebook, Dropbox, Yahoo, Microsoft, Paltalk, AOL and Apple Deny Participation in NSA PRISM Surveillance Program.

26 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:11:47pm

re: #21 jaunte

lolz

27 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:13:48pm

re: #22 funky chicken

I had forgot about that little part of Greenie’s history. Back in the day I read his first book, How Would A Patriot Act? and really didn’t think he was a crackpot or full of himself. But as he got more and more exposure, TV time, etc, he pretty much lost his damned mind. I don’t know what the hell his problem is. Jane Hamsher had the same thing happen to her, I remember reading and participating in Firedoglake when it was a blogspot blog with a couple hundred readers, and then the Plame thing happened, and Jane went off the edge, driving some of the better writers and commenters out of there (except for TBogg, who is awesome most of the time). Is it ego, fame and money that does it?

28 freetoken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:14:11pm

The AP seems unable to process the information quick enough:


Guardian makes splash in US with security scoops

Before this week, the Guardian newspaper’s gradual move into the U.S. — hiring dozens of employees in the last two years — hadn’t produced much of a splash in terms of scoops.

In the last three days that has changed.

[…]

Well, the AP writer is fawning over the Guardian’s apparent success.

And then, at the end of the story:

[…]

Barnett cautions that it is not clear the Guardian will be able to capitalize financially on its reputation for breaking big news.

“They’re clearly trying to establish themselves as a world leader in authoritative investigative journalism,” he said. “But if you are delivering it for free, how do you ensure you derive some proper revenue from their expansion? That’s been a problem for months and years.”

He said the “pennies” from Internet advertising do not offset the many dollars being lost as the Guardian’s more lucrative print advertising fades.

The paper has acknowledged that it is focusing on increasing Web traffic and Web advertising.

These things have always been about pushing stories to sell advertisement.

29 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:14:15pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Every single one of the companies identified in Greenwald’s original report has now unequivocally denied involvement in PRISM: Google, Facebook, Dropbox, Yahoo, Microsoft, Paltalk, AOL and Apple Deny Participation in NSA PRISM Surveillance Program.

I believe a hearty HERP DERP is called for in this circumstance.

30 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:14:36pm

What the fuck is up with the name Glenn?

31 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:14:44pm

I can’t believe all of those companies would risk the consumer backlash if it came out that they were lying about allowing the government direct access to their servers. That just wouldn’t make any sense for them as businesses. We’d be seeing much more weasely statements if there was some kind of involvement they didn’t want to talk about.

Occam’s can opener says they’re being straight.

32 jaunte  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:15:16pm

Getting the story wrong and being way over the top about it must be a tv plus.

33 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:16:03pm
34 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:16:19pm

First comment at LA Times article about the Santa Monica rampage:

DennisMadden at 2:52 PM June 07, 2013
He must not be a Verizon Customer or they would have had him under investigation. Cut the bull and the money being screwed away on junk and put more cops on the street and build more serious prisons, Make Sheriff Joe the head of all security in this country.

Glenn will have another bunch of crazies as fans now! The Glenn Greenwald-Glenn Beck convergence.

35 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:17:10pm

re: #34 funky chicken

First comment at LA Times article about the Santa Monica rampage:

Glenn will have another bunch of crazies as fans now! The Glenn Greenwald-Glenn Beck convergence.

Shurff Joe, National Policeman. Yeah, that’ll go over REAL well.

36 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:17:21pm

It’s raining!

Unfortunately, it’s not raining enough to put out the fires started by the four hours of dry lightning that preceded the rain.

37 Mattand  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:17:50pm

re: #24 Patricia Kayden

I used to like Glenn when he wrote for Salon a while back but he seems to have become unhinged over the years. I have no problem with criticizing President Obama (he’s far from perfect), but it seems like Glenn has overreached with this NSA story.

I never know how to take Greenwald. A lot of his critics do seem to be of the “HOW DARE YOU QUESTION OBAMA, YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE ON HIS SIDE” school of thought.

Then again, he seems like he really, really is trying to bring down Obama as much as Fox, Breitbart, Beck, et. al.

And was his comment about President Obama raping a nun supposed to be funny?

thegrio.com

Maybe he’s angling to get Fox News by being “edgy” and “un-PC”.

38 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:20:03pm

re: #32 jaunte

Getting the story wrong and being way over the top about it must be a tv plus.

Shades of Jane Hamster and the Firebag shtick…

39 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:20:53pm

re: #35 thedopefishlives

Shurff Joe, National Policeman. Yeah, that’ll go over REAL well.

He is a noted privacy advocate and civil rights champion after all.

choke

40 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:20:54pm

The Washington Post is now backpedaling on their version of the story, big time: Washington Post Updates Spying Story - Business Insider

41 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:21:27pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

This PRISM story is now looking like a complete fail. Somebody fed Greenwald some bogus information.

re: #23 EPR-radar

The Verizon court order story appears to be real, so if the PRISM story is completely made up, then whoever fed it to Greenwald/The Guardian chose their timing well.

Hmm. Meeting today.
Cyber disputes loom large as Obama meets China’s Xi

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama will complain to Chinese President Xi Jinping at a summit on Friday about alleged Chinese hacking of U.S. secrets, even as the White House faces growing questions at home over American government surveillance.

43 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:23:11pm

Fuck Greenwald with a spork.

44 Kragar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:30:20pm

I predict within a month, Rush and Beck will both have a service to hustle rubes guaranteeing their data is kept secure from the NSA.

45 jaunte  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:31:58pm

re: #44 Kragar

PatriotLibertyGuardVault™

46 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:33:16pm

“All we need is a Social Security #, your birth date, and a copy of your driver’s license. Suuuuure we won’t sell it for a profit. Would we ever sell you a bum steer?”

47 Minor_L  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:37:21pm

I figured Greenwald would overstep eventually. His “purity” shtick seems to be very ego driven, and less about real principles. I don’t think it always was, but more and more it’s like, “look at me. I am the only pure, non-partisan in the world. Bask in my glory.” And, now his zealotry may have backfired.

It’s sad, because he did a lot of good writing once.

Edit: or what Gus said. ;-)

48 Minor_L  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:38:13pm

re: #44 Kragar

For a minute, I thought you were talking about musical acts.

49 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:41:34pm

Something good at the Washington Post:

50 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:42:32pm
51 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:43:49pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

“You`re really dumb!” Oh, what a stinging come back!

52 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:43:54pm

Glenn Greenwald needs the privacy- he’s a depraved scientist creating unholy man-beast homunculi on a deserted jungle island.

53 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:43:54pm

//

54 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:44:31pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

You’re gonna mess up his Sunday plans.

55 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:44:43pm

Jane Hamsher:Pam Geller :: Glenn Greenwald:Ann Coulter

56 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:44:45pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

I guess that shows YOU!

57 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:45:51pm
58 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:46:17pm
59 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:46:28pm

YOU MEAN this is another non-scandal?

(so glad I wasn’t paying attention anyway)

60 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:46:45pm

Holy shit Charles, you hit the big time.

Also, Glenn Greenwald is an immature twatwaffle.

61 Minor_L  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:47:13pm

re: #57 Charles Johnson

How professional.

62 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:47:24pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Greenwald and Twitter, a match made in heaven.

63 erik_t  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:47:28pm

One company might lie, probably in a mealy-mouthed nonsense way. Four or five companies are unlikely to all be so categorical in their denial, particularly when there’s no real business case for them to have engaged in this activity in the first place.

64 ShroedingersGat  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:48:11pm

There are big problems with the story and I have my reservations, but I’m taking a wait-and-see approach until all the facts are out.

The problems are:

a) Funding. $20 million is not enough to even power a datacenter of that size, let alone to collect, store, and analyze data from that many sources.

b) The Powerpoint. It doesn’t look legitimate for an operation of that size. You could recreate that in under 3 minutes. The proof is the word of a whistleblower without outside confirmation.

c) Tapping into upstream data pipes without the knowledge of these companies sounds great, until you take into account that these firms are employing some of the smartest people on the planet. Do you think data exchange of that magnitude would escape the radars of those who monitor networks? Add to that the fact that lots of traffic is encrypted via HTTPS on these sites. What is the value of sniffing all that data with major chunks of it missing?

I’m starting to think this is heading into Kilian Memos territory, but I’ll reserve judgement until all the facts come out.

65 Minor_L  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:48:14pm

re: #60 ProTARDISLiberal

I like this word “twatwaffle.” I stole “shitmuffin” from Wonkette this week. I like that one, too.

66 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:48:45pm

re: #57 Charles Johnson

Now you will see first hand why people detest GG. He used to be a vocal critic of government overreach then went batshit insane and anyone who questions him will face a shit load of demonizing by his holy self.

67 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:49:20pm

re: #65 Minor_L

Now I am stealing “shitmuffin” from you.

I remember seeing on tickld one time the insult “wankpancake.” That’s a little too blue for me.

68 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:50:24pm

re: #64 ShroedingersGat

The price tag was one of the main things that made me doubt it.

69 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:51:35pm

re: #60 ProTARDISLiberal

Holy shit Charles, you hit the big time.

Also, Glenn Greenwald is an immature twatwaffle.

re: #66 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Now you will see first hand why people detest GG. He used to be a vocal critic of government overreach then went batshit insane and anyone who questions him will face a shit load of demonizing by his holy self.

Glenn and Charles go way back.

70 Minor_L  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:51:45pm

re: #67 ProTARDISLiberal

That is a bit much. Twatwaffle and shitmuffin I can work with, though.

71 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:52:09pm

re: #68 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The price tag was one of the main things that made me doubt it.

That and the graphics, for me.

72 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:52:10pm
73 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:52:25pm

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

Has Teh Twitters denied it? Because the NSA should be all over this shit.

You know I have my own sic semper tyrannis bumper sticker. It has nothing to do with government involvement in data collection.

Yep, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting change is … . .

Keep that Laser-Like Focus on Jobs, just like with all the other non-scandals—maybe we won’t notice what that the Whacko’s want the Government to merge with the Church like in the countries they seem to hate so much.

74 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:52:45pm

re: #45 jaunte

PatriotLibertyGuardVaultTM

I can see the advertising image for this so clearly:

A badass Hummer, with oversize tires and real-man mud stains. A roof-mounted 0.50 cal on top of the thing, and sidecars on either side for additional gunners.

Inside the Hummer, on the front seat, a dusty 5 1/4” floppy disk.

75 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:53:05pm

re: #12 Vicious Babushka

If we’re totally lliving under a fascist dictator tyranny, why are these people not in a real Gulag (never mind they aren’t even in Teh Twittergulag)?

Really! Where would I be?

76 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:54:20pm

re: #64 ShroedingersGat

b) The Powerpoint. It doesn’t look like legitimate for an operation of that size. You could recreate that in under 3 minutes. The proof is the word of a whistleblower without outside confirmation.

77 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:54:51pm

re: #66 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Now you will see first hand why people detest GG. He used to be a vocal critic of government overreach then went batshit insane and anyone who questions him will face a shit load of demonizing by his holy self.

Believe me - I already know from first-hand experience.

78 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:55:29pm

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

No slavery-type of charge?

79 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:57:06pm

Heh, I got a call from my mom telling me she’s never going to send an email again.

I wonder how long that resolution is going to last.

80 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 3:59:37pm

Thank you Salon for making my Twitter search easier:




81 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:00:07pm

re: #79 dragonath

Heh, I got a call from my mom telling me she’s never going to send an email again.

I wonder how long that resolution is going to last.

Until the next scandal breaks of course.

82 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:00:29pm


See:

NSA Prism Program Taps in to User Data of Apple, Google and Others | World News | the Guardian

The National Security Agency has obtained direct access to the systems of Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants, according to a top secret document obtained by the Guardian.

83 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:02:39pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

Something good at the Washington Post:

Asshole couldn’t come out and say he was wrong, could he?

84 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:03:14pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

Cue the outraged bleats of “Of COURSE these companies are denying it! They’re bound by law to lie!” in 3…2…1…

85 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:04:53pm

re: #84 Lidane

Cue the outraged bleats of “Of COURSE these companies are denying it! They’re bound by law to lie!” in 3…2…1…

Oh, I’m already getting that on Twitter.

86 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:05:20pm

re: #80 Lidane

The only thing that could make that look more official are lightning bolts and happy faces.

87 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:06:01pm

Okay sometimes you get lucky the weirdest ways. D_L (my wife) was supposed to go to Santa Monica today on her weekly working run there. She called her customers and begged off over traffic concerns given the Presidential visit. The car jacking/shooting happened just a block or three from where she would have been. Whew! Thanks Mr President!

Back On IT

New poll about the Patriot act and excluding PRISM and FISA.
Please visit and vote. Should be interesting.

Wired has been a pretty good resource on the Patriot Act, the letters ISPs’ get FISA etc. Just a touch skeptical of these programs but rarely if ever over the top and certainly not partisan.
wired.com

88 KernelPanic  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:07:42pm

Best explanation I’ve heard that explains both the cheap reported cost (only $20M a year!) AND the ability of the companies involved to deny active involvement in PRISM is this:

- The NSA has obtained valid SSL certificates for google, facebook etc.

- With SSL certs in hand they can transparently slurp traffic to/from these sites via cheap and well known methods like optical splitters installed at key internet backbone and exchanges

- This also ties well into those stories from the 90s where a whistleblower reported the NSA intercept room at the San Francisco ATT exchange

With on-the-fly decryption of SSL the NSA does not need active involvement of any of the companies. They just need to siphon off the traffic themselves and process it however they want. We already know how to tap circuits and split traffic - that technology is old school.

That’s my guess for what PRISM is. Wide-scale taps at major internet exchanges with a special sauce involving SSL decryption for popular domains and services.

89 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:08:02pm

Can’t wait until Romney blames his election loss on PRISM.

90 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:08:10pm

re: #68 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The price tag was one of the main things that made me doubt it.

I think I’ve said it before, a bridge across our small river here in Chicagoland costs $300M. I use that as a gauge.

$20M seems like very little for any comprehensive data system.

91 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:08:10pm

IMO, the more interesting corporate denials are the categorical ones of never having heard of the PRISM program, as opposed to the denial of “direct access”.

It’s too easy for “direct access” to be parsed in legally convenient ways.

That said, the media behind this story need to put up or shut up. The last thing I want is for possibly legitimate civil liberties issues to be buried under blowback from incompetent reporting.

92 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:08:51pm

re: #83 FemNaziBitch

Asshole couldn’t come out and say he was wrong, could he?

Yeah, not even a modicum of actual introspection on his part. “Not a letter I would write today” he says, because the times have changed. Well guess what, they changed because people - not him, people with actual integrity - refused to simply go along with and legitimize such institutional discrimination.

His response to her is the saddest part of that story.

93 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:09:43pm
94 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:10:39pm

Glenn Greenwald is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich. Glenn Greenwald is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich. Glenn Greenwald is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich.

95 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:10:52pm

The entire thing is a false flag. A crappy powerpoint was released claiming the government was doing this just so it could be shot down and discredited so the Liberal Media would say nothing to see here when in reality the admin is syphoning off your data and has collectors set up at sewage plants to analyze incoming stool samples.
//

96 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:12:02pm

re: #94 Gus

Glenn Greenwald is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich. Glenn Greenwald is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich. Glenn Greenwald is a raving freakazoid nut sandwich.

It doesn’t work like BeetleJuice. Besides, why would you want to invoke GG?

97 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:12:19pm

re: #88 KernelPanic

This is still a big conspiracy story, though, since those backbones and exchanges get serviced by a lot of people.

98 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:13:02pm

re: #74 EPR-radar

I can see the advertising image for this so clearly:

A badass Hummer, with oversize tires and real-man mud stains. A roof-mounted 0.50 cal on top of the thing, and sidecars on either side for additional gunners.

Inside the Hummer, on the front seat, a dusty 5 1/4” floppy disk.

Canyonero…Canyanerooooo…

99 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:13:51pm

You have to consider GG’s target audience. How many of them ever see anything but a basic Sales Pitch in a Power Point?

100 KernelPanic  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:16:02pm

re: #97 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This is still a big conspiracy story, though, since those backbones and exchanges get serviced by a lot of people.

Hard but not impossible. I’ve been the major Boston-area one. Lots of people is true but also *many* locked colo cages and suites where anything could be happening. Most POPs and exchanges also have a central switch room with feeds going out to the cages and suites — that central area would work along with the actual physical points where the fiber enters and leaves the building.

101 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:16:05pm

re: #99 FemNaziBitch

You have to consider GG’s target audience. How many of them ever see anything but a basic Sales Pitch in a Power Point?

No, powerpoints that fucked up could really be used at high levels. I’ve seen powerpoints as stupid being used to promote multimillion dollar programs.

102 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:16:34pm

re: #99 FemNaziBitch

You have to consider GG’s target audience. How many of them ever see anything but a basic Sales Pitch in a Power Point?

I still have difficulty imagining career spooks plastering corporate logos all over the slides. That and the low stated cost are the things that seem most false to me so far.

103 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:17:42pm

re: #99 FemNaziBitch

I’m actually kind of surprised this story made such impact, so fast. There really aren’t too many forums (besides this one) approaching it rationally.

104 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:18:50pm

re: #101 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

No, powerpoints that fucked up could really be used at high levels. I’ve seen powerpoints as stupid being used to promote multimillion dollar programs.

Personally, I would’ve been more impressed by a PRISM themed Prezi. Heh.

105 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:19:01pm

re: #100 KernelPanic

Hard but not impossible.

I didn’t say it would be ‘hard’. I said it’d be a big conspiracy.

I’ve been the major Boston-area one. Lots of people is true but also *many* locked colo cages and suites where anything could be happening.

I’m sorry, I’m not going to take personal authority on this.

Most POPs and exchanges also have a central switch room with feeds going out to the cages and suites — that central area would work along with the actual physical points where the fiber enters and leaves the building.

Sure. But what you’re alleging is all over the country, in hundreds of places, the NSA has installed sensitive equipment and nobody has ever discovered it or it’s been locked away and the NSA, what, sends out IT teams every time there’s any problem so that they can unlock the room and see if there’s a problem there? What about when equipment gets updated?

Physical interception of signals means you have to have a physical thing there to do it, and there’s nothing more obvious than a physical thing there.

106 piratedan  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:23:05pm

re: #82 Charles Johnson

See:

NSA Prism Program Taps in to User Data of Apple, Google and Others | World News | the Guardian

Dammit man! You’re ruining a perfectly good narrative here with logic and facts, you know how the media hates that!

107 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:23:14pm

Ya know, I’m just going to come out and say it: FUCK THIS SHIT!

108 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:23:43pm

re: #101 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

No, powerpoints that fucked up could really be used at high levels. I’ve seen powerpoints as stupid being used to promote multimillion dollar programs.

sad

109 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:25:14pm

Google should respond to Greenwald by changing the algorithm so that if you google “Glenn Greenwald” you get zero results. And if you like him on facebook, facebook should automatically unfriend all your connections.

110 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:25:33pm

re: #105 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sure. But what you’re alleging is all over the country, in hundreds of places, the NSA has installed sensitive equipment and nobody has ever discovered it or it’s been locked away and the NSA, what, sends out IT teams every time there’s any problem so that they can unlock the room and see if there’s a problem there? What about when equipment gets updated?

Obdi, Obdi —don’t you understand

The Obama Administration is working with the devil —they have access to all his devious and mysterious powers.

111 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:27:32pm

re: #109 darthstar

Google should respond to Greenwald by changing the algorithm so that if you google “Glenn Greenwald” you get zero results. And if you like him on facebook, facebook should automatically unfriend all your connections.

That would be some interesting Googlefu.

112 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:28:11pm

re: #105 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I didn’t say it would be ‘hard’. I said it’d be a big conspiracy.

I’m sorry, I’m not going to take personal authority on this.

Sure. But what you’re alleging is all over the country, in hundreds of places, the NSA has installed sensitive equipment and nobody has ever discovered it or it’s been locked away and the NSA, what, sends out IT teams every time there’s any problem so that they can unlock the room and see if there’s a problem there? What about when equipment gets updated?

Physical interception of signals means you have to have a physical thing there to do it, and there’s nothing more obvious than a physical thing there.

It’s Cylon equipment disguised as those room deodorizers mounted high up on the bathroom wall. No one notices them anymore.
/

113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:30:20pm

re: #110 FemNaziBitch

Obdi, Obdi —don’t you understand

No, it’s possible, what he’s saying could be happening, it’s just, in my opinion, unlikely because of the scale of it.

114 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:30:25pm

Just for the black comedy value, I hope it turns out to be a hoax. Greenwald (and the rest of the never-fact-check-anything media) gets hosed by:

Anonymous?
James O’Keefe / some other Breitard?
Some lunatic(s) associated with Alex Jones?
The White House itself?

wheee…

115 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:30:33pm

I work for a major carrier and provider, so I’m not going to comment on this story other than generics, and nothing in this comment represents the views, policy, or positions of the company I work at.

There are legal and procedural mechanisms in place for authorities to get this data, but those mechanisms work at an individual query level and in my experience zero percent of the companies give direct access to private servers to any governmental agencies. e.g. it takes a human to fulfill the request.

116 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:36:06pm

Greenwald included the denials in the original article, so this shouldn’t be a shock. I think a lot of this comes down to what is meant by “direct access” to the servers. I think think the bigger issues are that the criteria for obtaining the data and the nature of the FISA oversight to prevent abuse are vague.

117 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:38:02pm

re: #116 Ace-o-aces

I think a lot of this comes down to what is meant by “direct access” to the servers.

You’re kidding, right? “Direct access” implies that Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft and all these other companies gave the government access and let them monitor their servers at will.

It’s not that hard to define. It’s like the definition of “is”.

118 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:40:24pm

re: #66 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Now you will see first hand why people detest GG. He used to be a vocal critic of government overreach then went batshit insane and anyone who questions him will face a shit load of demonizing by his holy self.

I think he was always batshit insane.

119 Ming  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:41:25pm

re: #32 jaunte

Getting the story wrong and being way over the top about it must be a tv plus.

Apparently so.

120 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:41:57pm

re: #109 darthstar

Google should respond to Greenwald by changing the algorithm so that if you google “Glenn Greenwald” you get zero results. And if you like him on facebook, facebook should automatically unfriend all your connections.

Or just a whole page of laughing emoticons.

121 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:42:11pm

re: #116 Ace-o-aces

Greenwald included the denials in the original article, so this shouldn’t be a shock.

Actually, no he didn’t. He included an early denial from Google and two words from Apple (they “never heard” of the program). Now ALL of the companies named in his original article have denied it.

I think a lot of this comes down to what is meant by “direct access” to the servers.

This is what Greenwald specifically alleged:

The NSA access is part of a previously undisclosed program called Prism, which allows officials to collect material including search history, the content of emails, file transfers and live chats, the document says.

All of that now appears to be completely false.

122 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:43:35pm

Looks like Greenwald is going to ignore my question about his claim that the NSA backs him up.

123 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:45:33pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

Looks like Greenwald is going to ignore my question about his claim that the NSA backs him up.

Hmm. At what point do Greenwald and his newspaper get into legal trouble? Alleging that ISPs/providers freely give their data (and access to it) to the government without being able to back it up is obviously financially damaging to the companies since it directly implies they are insecure with their customers information and traffic.

124 KernelPanic  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:47:27pm

re: #105 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sure. But what you’re alleging is all over the country, in hundreds of places, the NSA has installed sensitive equipment and nobody has ever discovered it or it’s been locked away and the NSA, what, sends out IT teams every time there’s any problem so that they can unlock the room and see if there’s a problem there? What about when equipment gets updated?

Nope; not hundreds. Dozens or less if you go by the major exchange points or just concentrate on the points that link with the overseas cables. The technology for doing this is easy, cheap and most of it would be indistinguishable from the regular stuff that you’d need to use in such a facility anyway.

I don’t have a lot personally invested in this argument - to me it just seemed more reasonable that if a “$20M” program like this existed it would not be some vast network-based thing. It would be additive to the physical stuff the feds already run for CAELA etc.

125 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:49:25pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

He probably is referring the the following from the end of his article:

A senior administration official said in a statement: “The Guardian and Washington Post articles refer to collection of communications pursuant to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. This law does not allow the targeting of any US citizen or of any person located within the United States.

“The program is subject to oversight by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the Executive Branch, and Congress. It involves extensive procedures, specifically approved by the court, to ensure that only non-US persons outside the US are targeted, and that minimize the acquisition, retention and dissemination of incidentally acquired information about US persons.

“This program was recently reauthorized by Congress after extensive hearings and debate.

“Information collected under this program is among the most important and valuable intelligence information we collect, and is used to protect our nation from a wide variety of threats.

“The Government may only use Section 702 to acquire foreign intelligence information, which is specifically, and narrowly, defined in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. This requirement applies across the board, regardless of the nationality of the target.”

126 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:50:09pm

re: #124 KernelPanic

I’d agree broadly that a clandestine operation like you’re describing might be possible, but again this is not what Greenwald alleged. He said that the tech companies were knowingly participating in PRISM, willingly handing over user data to the government.

127 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:51:24pm


Derp.

128 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:52:06pm

Glenn Greenwald: U.S. Wants to Destroy Privacy Worldwide

The journalist who broke the news that the government is monitoring vast quantities of American phone records is claiming the U.S. is building a “massive” snooping apparatus committed to destroying privacy worldwide.

“There is a massive apparatus within the United States government that with complete secrecy has been building this enormous structure that has only one goal, and that is to destroy privacy and anonymity, not just in the United States but around the world,” charged Glenn Greenwald, a reporter for the British newspaper “The Guardian,” speaking on CNN. “That is not hyperbole. That is their objective.”

129 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:53:45pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

Looks like Greenwald is going to ignore my question about his claim that the NSA backs him up.

These are the recent DNI statements.

FISA section 702: dni.gov

Verizon et al court orders: dni.gov

The most one can get out of these statements relating to the PRISM story is official confirmation that intelligence is gathered under FISA section 702.

That is weak sauce indeed for a supposed ‘confirmation’.

130 Bubblehead II  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:54:01pm

Evening Lizards. The only thing about this story that shocked me was GG didn’t tie it in to the new NSA data center being built in Utah.

I thought this story fishy when it was first paged for two reasons.

The Guardian

and

Glenn Greenwald

Should have spoken up then.

131 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:54:05pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

Glenn Greenwald: U.S. Wants to Destroy Privacy Worldwide

charged Glenn Greenwald, a reporter for the British newspaper “The Guardian,” speaking on CNN. “That is not hyperbole.

yeah, uh huh

132 HoosierHoops  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:55:00pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

Actually, no he didn’t. He included an early denial from Google and two words from Apple (they “never heard” of the program). Now every one of the companies named in his original article have denied it.

This is what Greenwald specifically alleged:

All of that now appears to be completely false.

Not to be crazy about this..But I wonder if the Gov’t has tapped into the main backbone pipes of the Net. Sprint has got a big pipe that acts as a backbone.
I doubt it but a thought..
Let’s do a little thought experiment..

Imagine technology 20 years from now..When Facebook and Google died in the dust bin of history…Your whole life is in a cloud somewhere..High powered Technology moves ahead at light speed..

We can’t surrender privacy one drop at a time to any Gov’t or Company..
There must be a bright red line now..So it exists later..

133 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:55:21pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

Actually, no he didn’t. He included an early denial from Google and two words from Apple (they “never heard” of the program). Now ALL of the companies named in his original article have denied it.

He also stated

Several senior tech executives insisted that they had no knowledge of Prism or of any similar scheme. They said they would never have been involved in such a program. “If they are doing this, they are doing it without our knowledge,” one said.

So it looks like he contacted the involved companies before posting the story. They just didn’t issue public statements until later. He might turn out to be wrong, but you can’t say he hid the objections.

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:56:06pm

re: #133 Ace-o-aces

So it looks like he contacted the involved companies before posting the story. They just didn’t issue public statements until later. He might turn out to be wrong, but you can’t say he hid the objections.

Good thing I never said that, then.

135 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:56:07pm

.re: #124 KernelPanic

Nope; not hundreds. Dozens or less if you go by the major exchange points or just concentrate on the points that link with the overseas cables. The technology for doing this is easy, cheap and most of it would be indistinguishable from the regular stuff that you’d need to use in such a facility anyway.
.

If you’re going by the ‘major exchange points’, there still have to be tons of devices. It’s not just one huge trunk going through those places.

I don’t have a lot personally invested in this argument - to me it just seemed more reasonable that if a “$20M” program like this existed it would not be some vast network-based thing. It would be additive to the physical stuff the feds already run for CAELA etc

What’s CEALA?

136 BroncD  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:56:45pm

I see Greenwald’s people skills are as sharp as ever.

137 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:57:43pm

re: #135 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

.

If you’re going by the ‘major exchange points’, there still have to be tons of devices. It’s not just one huge trunk going through those places.

What’s CEALA?

Centro Educacional Adventista de Los Ángeles

138 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:58:17pm

re: #136 BroncD

I see Greenwald’s people skills are as sharp as ever.

I’ve always figured that a guy who has to create sockpuppets to argue with has serious issues.

139 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:00:04pm

re: #138 funky chicken

I’ve always figured that a guy who has to create sockpuppets to argue with has serious issues.

Moot court is not supposed to be a solo activity.

140 BroncD  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:05:20pm

re: #138 funky chicken

I’ve always figured that a guy who has to create sockpuppets to argue with has serious issues.

Those weren’t sockpuppets! Those were just random people who had the same IP address as Glenn, repeating the same boilerplate praise over and over again.
IT COULD HAPPEN

141 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:07:38pm

From “There Will Come Soft Rains

The voice said at last, “Since you express no preference, I shall select a poem at random.”
Quiet music rose to back the voice. “Sara Teasdale. As I recall, your favorite…”
There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;
And frogs in the pools singing at night,
And wild plum trees in tremulous white;
Robins will wear their feathery fire,
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;
And not one will know of the war, not one
Will care at last when it is done,
Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree,
If mankind perished utterly;
And Spring herself, when she woke at dawn
Would scarcely know that we were gone.

The fire burned on the stone hearth and the cigar fell away into a mound of quiet ash in its tray. The empty chairs faced each other between the silent walls, and the music played.
At ten o’clock the house began to die.

142 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:09:43pm

Santa Monica update: bad, bad deal.

cnn.com

143 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:11:20pm

re: #140 BroncD

Those weren’t sockpuppets! Those were just random people who had the same IP address as Glenn, repeating the same boilerplate praise over and over again.
IT COULD HAPPEN

Well, as long as he shared a computer with his mom, I guess you’re right.

144 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:13:52pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

Good thing I never said that, then.

Look, all I’m saying is that the public denials by the companies don’t change anything. We still have the same information we had when the story came out yesterday.
-A power point Greenwald claims is from the NSA
-Denials by the companies involved
-Government spokesman states they are collecting data per FISA.

I’ll admit though, the whole thing has brought out Greenwald’s imperious side.

145 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:14:03pm
146 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:15:18pm

re: #142 funky chicken

Santa Monica update: bad, bad deal.

cnn.com

{{{{{Santa Monica}}}}}

147 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:15:47pm

re: #138 funky chicken

I’ve always figured that a guy who has to create sockpuppets to argue with has serious issues.

I’m a little out of the loop on the whole Greenald sockpuppet deal. What happened?

148 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:16:24pm

re: #127 Gus

149 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:17:01pm

re: #141 Randall Gross

Youtube Video

A Soviet-era animated short based on the Bradbury story.

150 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:18:21pm

re: #132 HoosierHoops

Not to be crazy about this..But I wonder if the Gov’t has tapped into the main backbone pipes of the Net. Sprint has got a big pipe that acts as a backbone.
I doubt it but a thought..
Let’s do a little thought experiment..

Imagine technology 20 years from now..When Facebook and Google died in the dust bin of history…Your whole life is in a cloud somewhere..High powered Technology moves ahead at light speed..

We can’t surrender privacy one drop at a time to any Gov’t or Company..
There must be a bright red line now..So it exists later..

We have to remember that Science Fiction is FICTION. While many things written in novels have come to fruition, these were things that were in the realm of the POSSIBLE. Often written by those who were, themselves, science nerds.

No human can be omniscient and omnipresent. I have a hard time believing that any technology created by humans will be either.

151 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:20:04pm

For Shabbos this week:

Home baked challah
Baked gefilte fish
Broiled rainbow trout
Romaine-spinach-avocado salad
Eggplant dip
Chicken soup w/matzo balls
Burnt sugar noodle kugel

Dessert: caramel 7-layer cake (from the bakery)

Wine: Herzog orange muscat, Golan merlot

152 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:24:36pm

re: #150 FemNaziBitch

We have to remember that Science Fiction is FICTION. While many things written in novels have come to fruition, these were things that were in the realm of the POSSIBLE. Often written by those who were, themselves, science nerds.

No human can be omniscient and omnipresent. I have a hard time believing that any technology created by humans will be either.

Say what?

153 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:25:50pm

re: #151 Vicious Babushka

For Shabbos this week:

Home baked challah
Baked gefilte fish
Broiled rainbow trout
Romaine-spinach-avocado salad
Eggplant dip
Chicken soup w/matzo balls
Burnt sugar noodle kugel

Dessert: caramel 7-layer cake (from the bakery)

Wine: Herzog orange muscat, Golan merlot

I saw some dead muscrats on the highway yesterday,

154 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:26:25pm

I like the three new possibilities for the Doctor. But one reservation.

Domhnall seems to smoke. Last week, after seeing one of my favorite entertainers lose his father in part because of smoking, I hate smoking. Seeing this usually pretty funny guy coming close to crying over the last weekend because his father couldn’t kick a Tobacco Addiction kinda has an effect on you.

What I am saying is, I want Domhnall to stop smoking.

155 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:29:12pm

re: #149 Dr Lizardo

A Soviet-era animated short based on the Bradbury story.

made in 1984?

156 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:29:13pm

Deja vu:

The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy (AKA “Warrantless Wiretapping”) concerns surveillance of persons within the United States during the collection of foreign intelligence by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) as part of the war on terror. Under this program, referred to by the Bush administration as the “terrorist surveillance program”,[1] part of the broader President’s Surveillance Program, the NSA was authorized by executive order to monitor, without search warrants, the phone calls, Internet activity (Web, e-mail, etc.), text messaging, and other communication involving any party believed by the NSA to be outside the U.S., even if the other end of the communication lies within the U.S. Critics, however, claimed that it was in an effort to attempt to silence critics of the Bush Administration and their handling of several hot button issues during its tenure. Under public pressure, the Bush administration ceased the warrantless wiretapping program in January 2007 and returned review of surveillance to the FISA court.[2] Subsequently, in 2008 Congress passed the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, which relaxed some of the original FISA court requirements.

en.wikipedia.org

seriously guys. NSA isn’t going to steal your Tea Party secrets, or whatever.

157 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:29:45pm

re: #152 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Say what?

I know, it’s tough to accept.

:0

158 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:31:42pm

re: #8 thedopefishlives

I have no doubt that the above-named companies have all been approached for various slices of data. The ridiculous conspiracies about the government installing back doors in public data centers, or this PRISM thing… Well, ridiculous is the right word for it.

Not at all ridiculous. May I suggest plugging into your favorite search engine: FBI + “going dark”

159 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 10:26:21pm

re: #157 FemNaziBitch

But Deepak said:
re: #127 Gus

Your true self is also the self of the universe

So there.
//


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