Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Beck: A Comparison

Common theme: the US government is an evil entity
Weird • Views: 30,842

On one hand we have Glenn Greenwald claiming that the United States is “building an enormous structure” with the specific goal of destroying all privacy and anonymity in the entire world…

The journalist who broke the news that the government is monitoring vast quantities of American phone records is claiming the U.S. is building a “massive” snooping apparatus committed to destroying privacy worldwide.

“There is a massive apparatus within the United States government that with complete secrecy has been building this enormous structure that has only one goal, and that is to destroy privacy and anonymity, not just in the United States but around the world,” charged Glenn Greenwald, a reporter for the British newspaper “The Guardian,” speaking on CNN. “That is not hyperbole. That is their objective.”

…and on the other hand we have Glenn Beck claiming that the United States is becoming a “totalitarian state” that “will be remembered as the most evil nation in the history of the world,” dwarfing the Third Reich. And I’m sure he feels this isn’t hyperbole either.

YouTube

Apart from their political orientations, what’s the essential difference between these two extreme opinions?

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219 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:21:11pm

Just because we have been giving more attention to the wingnuts, doesn’t mean that moonbats have ceased to exist.

2 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:22:03pm

For Shabbos this week:

Home baked challah
Baked gefilte fish
Broiled rainbow trout
Romaine-spinach-avocado salad
Eggplant dip
Chicken soup w/matzo balls
Burnt sugar noodle kugel

Dessert: caramel 7-layer cake (from the bakery)

Wine: Herzog orange muscat, Golan merlot

3 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:23:20pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

Just because we have been giving more attention to the wingnuts, doesn’t mean that moonbats have ceased to exist.

Good gawd are they annoying.

4 bratwurst  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:25:47pm

The first Glenn hates Israel. The second one LOVES Israel…as the stage for the biblical end times. That is kind of a difference, right?

5 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:26:53pm

re: #2 Vicious Babushka

For Shabbos this week:

Home baked challah
Baked gefilte fish
Broiled rainbow trout
Romaine-spinach-avocado salad
Eggplant dip
Chicken soup w/matzo balls
Burnt sugar noodle kugel

Dessert: caramel 7-layer cake (from the bakery)

Wine: Herzog orange muscat, Golan merlot

Deja Vu!!

6 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:27:15pm

If you want to worry about privacy it’s not our government that should be your concern.

7 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:27:27pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

Just because we have been giving more attention to the wingnuts, doesn’t mean that moonbats have ceased to exist.

I’ve blocked a few today. Feels like old times.

8 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:28:02pm

MSNBC Video
lol

9 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:28:50pm
Apart from their political orientations, what’s the essential difference between these two?

Greenwald is gay, Beck hates gays. Greenwald for all his flaws is at least somewhat intelligent and is much better educated, articulates his positions more clearly and can probably spell oligarchy correctly.

10 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:30:47pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

lol

She’s losing a lot of viewers. Mostly Obama supporters. I see a lot of kvetching about her from time to time on Twitter.

11 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:31:38pm

The only real difference I can see is that Glenn Greenwald is still employed by supposedly reputable journalistic entities. Why escapes me, frankly.

12 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:31:46pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Not her finest moment.

13 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:33:48pm

I think this is all going to boil down to weasel words. The denials, especially from google and facebook, are almost identical. Denying “direct access” and only hearing of the program yesterday. The program isn’t secret, everybody knows this has been going on for a long time, it’s a useful tool for law enforcement. Exactly how the cooperation takes place, direct vs indirect, just seems to allow everybody plausible deniability. It’s not really a terribly important story aside from the academic debate about privacy but it’s always fun to watch the noise machine making noise.

14 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:33:53pm

re: #9 goddamnedfrank

Greenwald is gay, Beck hates gays. Greenwald for all his flaws is at least somewhat intelligent and is much better educated, articulates his positions more clearly and can probably spell oligarchy correctly.

All unimportant when it comes to lunacy.

15 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:34:46pm

What’s old is new again! I (not so fondly) recall the moonbat howling about the NSA back in 2005:

The NSA warrantless surveillance controversy (AKA “Warrantless Wiretapping”) concerns surveillance of persons within the United States during the collection of foreign intelligence by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) as part of the war on terror. Under this program, referred to by the Bush administration as the “terrorist surveillance program”,[1] part of the broader President’s Surveillance Program, the NSA was authorized by executive order to monitor, without search warrants, the phone calls, Internet activity (Web, e-mail, etc.), text messaging, and other communication involving any party believed by the NSA to be outside the U.S., even if the other end of the communication lies within the U.S. Critics, however, claimed that it was in an effort to attempt to silence critics of the Bush Administration and their handling of several hot button issues during its tenure. Under public pressure, the Bush administration ceased the warrantless wiretapping program in January 2007 and returned review of surveillance to the FISA court.[2] Subsequently, in 2008 Congress passed the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, which relaxed some of the original FISA court requirements

en.wikipedia.org

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:35:14pm

I’m going to reiterate, because I must, that it’s not crazy to be concerned about massive data-gathering programs like PRISM. There really are serious issues about personal privacy versus the connected Internet culture here, that are going to need to be addressed at some point in a real way, or they’ll continue to bite us on the ass.

17 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:36:17pm

Room 641A

18 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:37:14pm


Does not mention his adventures in sockpuppetry.

19 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:37:40pm

re: #10 Gus

She’s losing a lot of viewers. Mostly Obama supporters. I see a lot of kvetching about her from time to time on Twitter.

I see a lot of bitching from “liberals”/progressives about MSNBC in general. I think it’s a viable business model. Opinions are cheap and cost effective, news gathering is expensive and carries the risk of being wrong. But I think the cost effectiveness shows, it’s cheap, it’s easy, it’s safe. I think it’s crap.

20 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:38:18pm

re: #15 funky chicken

What’s old is new again! I (not so fondly) recall the moonbat howling about the NSA back in 2005:

en.wikipedia.org

Of course it wasn’t just moonbats howling then. Comey, Mueller and most of the top leadership at the Justice Department and FBI threatened to resign. Card and Gonzalez went to Ashcroft’s hospital room and tried to bully him into overruling the acting Attorney General.

It was kind of a big deal.

21 AntonSirius  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:38:33pm

It’s funny, I made some crack on Twitter a while ago about Greenwald sounding more and more like Alex Jones and had a couple of friends rush to his defense… appearances on CNN like the one quoted above kind of make my case for me.

22 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:38:57pm

gotta go, have a great evening all!

23 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:40:44pm

When you come down to it, what defines both moonbats and wingnuts is the speed at which they escalate into hyperbole and the manner in which—inevitably—interpretation of available material starts bending to meet expectations.

24 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:40:50pm

re: #20 goddamnedfrank

Of course it wasn’t just moonbats howling then. Comey, Mueller and most of the top leadership at the Justice Department and FBI threatened to resign. Card and Gonzalez went to Ashcroft’s hospital room and tried to bully him into overruling the acting Attorney General.

It was kind of a big deal.

Eh…my husband’s commander got promoted to 2 stars and went to take over that stuff at the time. It was a whole lotta hullaballoo over nothing. Seriously. Huge media stink, lots of hysteria, and … nobody’s dirty laundry was being aired or collected for airing later.

25 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:41:06pm
26 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:41:19pm

Catching up on the Daily Show. So sad, no Jon Stewart for months…

27 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:44:44pm
28 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:45:26pm

re: #23 The Ghost of a Flea

When you come down to it, what defines both moonbats and wingnuts is the speed at which they escalate into hyperbole and the manner in which—inevitably—interpretation of available material starts bending to meet expectations.

They are the same distance from reality.

29 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:46:10pm

re: #27 Gus

Early Klingon.

30 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:46:59pm

re: #26 klys and whatnot

I know. I didn’t realize the project he was going to go work on was related to the family in Iran that Jason Jones interviewed last year. I hope he does well, he must believe in it to leave for so long. Loves me some Jon Stewart.

31 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:48:57pm

re: #30 A Mom Anon

I know. I didn’t realize the project he was going to go work on was related to the family in Iran that Jason Jones interviewed last year. I hope he does well, he must believe in it to leave for so long. Loves me some Jon Stewart.

His interview with Brian Williams was hysterical.

I’m sitting and cross stitching and bemoaning the fact that it is over 80 in the house.

32 Stanghazi  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:49:18pm

Witness who saw Santa Monica killer, “it looked like he was posing for the cover of a guns & ammo magazine”

33 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:50:27pm

Chris Hayes currently freaking out. So I hear read.

34 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:50:51pm

re: #31 klys and whatnot

He’s one of my favorite people on TV. I also love it that he hosts The Night of Too Many Stars every year to fund programs for people with autism and their families. Plus, he’s adorable.

35 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:51:18pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

Sockpuppetry?

36 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:51:59pm

re: #28 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

They are the same distance from reality.

But they are not the same distance from the congressional cafeteria.

37 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:52:47pm

re: #34 A Mom Anon

As a fellow NJ denizen (you can move out of the state but you never really shake the stink off…), I appreciate his candor towards the state.

We can shit on it all we want to, but no one else is allowed to.

38 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:54:15pm

By the way - all you folks who post Pages? They’re great, but you could really help get the word out a lot more if you’d create Twitter accounts and authorize LGF to connect to them, so when you post a Page it will automatically go out on Twitter.

Just sayin’. I retweet a LOT of these posts, but if you want people to see your work you can expand your reach enormously this way.

39 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:54:21pm

Here’s NYT on the subject:
nytimes.com

40 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:55:20pm

re: #24 funky chicken

Eh…my husband’s commander got promoted to 2 stars and went to take over that stuff at the time. It was a whole lotta hullaballoo over nothing. Seriously. Huge media stink, lots of hysteria, and … nobody’s dirty laundry was being aired or collected for airing later.

Okay. The entire leadership of Justice and the FBI threatened to quit because they thought the program was clearly unconstitutional, and the administration caved and changed it, but your husband’s boss said everything was kosher so you unquestioningly believe it.

How credulous are you?

41 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:55:31pm

re: #33 Gus

Chris Hayes currently freaking out. So I hear read.

Heh. I can’t wait for to hear what Bashir, Chris Mathews, and Rev Al have to say about this important issue.

42 Ace-o-aces  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:55:54pm

Well, for one thing Greenwald isn’t trying to con old people into buying overpriced gold coins.

43 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:56:55pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Heh. I can’t wait for to hear what Bashir, Chris Mathews, and Rev Al have to say about this important issue.

44 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:57:26pm

re: #35 ProTARDISLiberal

He made up imaginary friends who followed him around online and said how brilliant his arguments were. They all shared his IP address. oops

45 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 5:59:28pm

re: #42 Ace-o-aces

Well, for one thing Greenwald isn’t trying to con old people into buying overpriced gold coins.

Yes. And Glenn Beck has never made any rape jokes.

46 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:01:56pm

re: #43 Gus

Yeah, but I think MSNBC’s last ratings was a bit of a fluke. They don’t do news or live coverage and were hurt by breaking stories like Boston bombing, hurricanes, and other current events. If the news cycle slows down enough to give the script writers enough time they’ll be fine.

47 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:01:59pm

re: #40 goddamnedfrank

Believe what? That NSA wasn’t listening to my phone calls? That’s not hard to disbelieve. The folks flogging the story hardest were the “Dick Cheney is going to abolish the Constitution and become King of the USA” folks, from what I recall. The hysteria around the story was completely out of line with what the NSA could do, which honestly wasn’t that much, and what they were doing, which was even less. Big Brother didn’t exist, and doesn’t exist now, even though Glenn Greenwald and Alex Jones say he does.

48 blueraven  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:01:59pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Heh. I can’t wait for to hear what Bashir, Chris Mathews, and Rev Al have to say about this important issue.

No worse probably than Tucker Carlson, Krauthammer and the usual suspects over at Fox news.

49 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:02:08pm

Whacko Bird Woman from Walking Dead sent Ricin letters???

huffingtonpost.com

50 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:04:07pm

re: #49 Randall Gross

Indeed she did. Must have seen the news stories about the dueling Elvises and thought “hey, what a great idea!”

51 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:06:21pm

It’s Friday afternoon.

It’s too bloody hot.

52 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:06:50pm

re: #48 blueraven

No worse probably than Tucker Carlson, Krauthammer and the usual suspects over at Fox news.

Probably not.

53 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:08:04pm

re: #51 klys and whatnot

It’s Friday afternoon.

It’s too bloody hot.

Sounds like Gus needs to pay you a visit.

54 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:08:06pm

“No worse than Fox” - that’s a catchy slogan, somebody notify the marketing department.

55 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:08:22pm

re: #47 funky chicken

The hysteria around the story was completely out of line with what the NSA could do, which honestly wasn’t that much, and what they were doing, which was even less.

Bottom line is that it was on its face unconstitutional enough for Ashcroft to rip into Card and Gonzales when they tried to get him to overrule Comey, and unconstitutional enough for Comey, Mueller and a bunch of the senior leadership at Justice and the FBI to threaten to resign over.

But hey, that apparently only matters to people who actually care about the Constitution and the rule of law.

56 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:09:54pm

re: #40 goddamnedfrank

But, is John Ashcroft a moron? Yep. I grew up in KCMO, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he scribbled something blatantly unconstitutional on his church’s bulletin and handed it to somebody as directions to authorize god-knows-what. That doesn’t mean the NSA folks were targeting political opponents of the Bush administration, or following little Muslim grannies around on satellites, or …

57 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:10:50pm

re: #51 klys and whatnot

It’s Friday afternoon.

It’s too bloody hot.

My mom is complaining about that too. Do you live in Vegas?

58 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:11:31pm

re: #57 funky chicken

My mom is complaining about that too. Do you live in Vegas?

I wish. In Vegas we would have AC.

It’s over 90 and I have no AC.

59 Stanghazi  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:11:49pm

re: #49 Randall Gross

Whacko Bird Woman from Walking Dead sent Ricin letters???

huffingtonpost.com

I was wondering which zombie she was!

60 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:11:56pm

re: #51 klys and whatnot

It’s Friday afternoon.

It’s too bloody hot.

101.5 here, but it’s a dry heat!

61 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:12:28pm

re: #53 thedopefishlives

Sounds like Gus needs to pay you a visit.

Well, we get dry heat here. :D

62 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:12:45pm

re: #60 Single-handed sailor

101.5 here, but it’s a dry heat!

Dry heat makes no difference at those temperatures. :( Not to me.

I don’t cope well with heat.

63 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:13:03pm

re: #56 funky chicken

But, is John Ashcroft a moron? Yep. I grew up in KCMO, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he scribbled something blatantly unconstitutional on his church’s bulletin and handed it to somebody as directions to authorize god-knows-what. That doesn’t mean the NSA folks were targeting political opponents of the Bush administration, or following little Muslim grannies around on satellites, or …

As I recall, the stink at that time was about some scheme that was too crazy for John Ashcroft to sign off on.

God only know what it was, but it can’t have been anything either sane or legal.

64 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:13:16pm

re: #61 Gus

Well, we get dry heat here. :D

I am grateful so far that we haven’t had our heat wave yet. When the temperature and the humidity are both 95+, it SUCKS.

65 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:14:15pm

Drone strikes:
nytimes.com

66 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:15:22pm

re: #56 funky chicken

Your husband’s boss having seen Ferris Bueller at 31 Flavors doesn’t make for a compelling argument from authority. Sorry. The program was sketchy enough that a bunch of high level career bureaucrats in federal law enforcement risked losing their jobs in order to end it. Everything else you assert about what the program wasn’t is just a bunch of strawmen, and totally irrelevant.

67 darthstar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:15:56pm

Old Spock vs. New Spock Audi commercial.

io9.com

68 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:16:15pm

Rachel Maddow may occasionally get things wrong, but she’s a pure genius compared to the parade of absolute idiocy that goes out on Fox News every day.

I’ll take her occasional missteps over the idiotic alternative any day.

69 efuseakay  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:17:29pm

Beck cries a lot more.

70 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:18:34pm

re: #64 thedopefishlives

I am grateful so far that we haven’t had our heat wave yet. When the temperature and the humidity are both 95+, it SUCKS.

That and as in NJ where it only gets down to say 75 in the middle of the night. Never really cools off. It will cool off here and reach the mid 50s after a day in the 90s. Maybe low 60s on occasion.

71 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:19:04pm

re: #66 goddamnedfrank

Wow. You seem really angry. But I promise you, NSA wasn’t listening to your phone calls.

72 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:19:11pm

re: #70 Gus

That and as in NJ where it only gets down to say 75 in the middle of the night. Never really cools off. It will cool off here and reach the mid 50s after a day in the 90s. Maybe low 60s on occasion.

Running the fan for 6 hours every night gets old though.

73 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:20:33pm

Youtube Video
LA Times coverage of Santa Monica

74 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:20:36pm

re: #72 klys and whatnot

Running the fan for 6 hours every night gets old though.

We have yet to have a day over 25C.

75 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:20:43pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

I also think Rachel actually gives a shit about what she covers on her show. The wingnuts? Not so much. It’s about ripping Obama/Liberals/Democrats apart and going to any lengths to do that. Truth doesn’t matter on the right, it hasn’t for a long time.

76 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:20:45pm

re: #70 Gus

That and as in NJ where it only gets down to say 75 in the middle of the night. Never really cools off. It will cool off here and reach the mid 50s after a day in the 90s. Maybe low 60s on occasion.

The weather in NJ is awesome. We were in Marlton for 4 years. Great gardening too!

77 klys and whatnot  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:21:06pm

re: #74 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

We have yet to have a day over 25C.

I am all for moving to Canada.

78 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:21:27pm

Ok, a little bit of personal history for me, I was dating a wonderful Peruvian girl back in 2002 and on. It was long distance for a lot of it, Her in Florida, me in Georgia at the time. She was notified after the fact that she was the subject of a wiretap because she had made overseas phone calls. Mind you, scared the holy bejesus out of her that people were listening in on her convos.

And yes, this was all directly related to the Patriot act and all the fun stuff. That some of our… late night… conversations were listened in on makes me feel to this day feel a little violated. And ultimately it’s the principle of the matter, because at some point a phone number made a call to Peru and that’s sufficient suspicion to deserve an active wiretap? WTFMate?

The biggest issue is that as companies gather more metadata on us, all for their own advertising targeting, that same data remains available for further data mining should the Government see fit to ‘request’ it.

Remember, we have a bill that is trying to be passed to grant blanket immunity from lawsuits if they voluntarily give data information on their customers at the request of the government. It’s not what we know that worries me, it’s what we don’t know about the erosion of civil liberties that concerns me.

79 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:21:41pm

re: #74 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

We have yet to have a day over 25C.

You some kinda commie?

80 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:22:03pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

Rachel Maddow may occasionally get things wrong, but she’s a pure genius compared to the parade of absolute idiocy that goes out on Fox News every day.

I’ll take her occasional missteps over the idiotic alternative any day.

Also, she actually issues corrections when she’s proven wrong, unlike Fox which tends to memory hole their mistakes. Plus, there’s a lot of weird unknowns and oddly specific parsing of words on the part of the companies named in the PRISM reporting. Should she have shown more caution considering Greenwald’s participation in breaking the news, yes, but further confirmation or debunking will almost certainly make it into her future broadcasts.

81 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:23:01pm

re: #71 funky chicken

Wow. You seem really angry. But I promise you, NSA wasn’t listening to your phone calls.

I never said they were. This is an example of your use of a strawman argument. It’s an intellectually dishonest debate tactic.

82 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:23:35pm

re: #76 funky chicken

The weather in NJ is awesome. We were in Marlton for 4 years. Great gardening too!

I grew up in NJ. I thought the weather there was hellish. The summers were day after day of 90+ temperature and 90+ humidity. Plus, after may years in CA, I’ve decided I have no desire to live through winters with actual snow and ice.

83 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:24:07pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

Rachel Maddow may occasionally get things wrong, but she’s a pure genius compared to the parade of absolute idiocy that goes out on Fox News every day.

I’ll take her occasional missteps over the idiotic alternative any day.

Yeah. Being annoying as they are on MSNBC from time to time is not the same as the bat shit crazy of Glenn Beck and others like him.

84 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:24:28pm

re: #79 funky chicken

You some kinda commie?

Damn right! Canuckistan all the way!

85 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:26:11pm

Apart from their political orientations, what’s the essential difference between these two?

Beck has a blackboard, and seems to cry alot. Greenwald? No blackboard that I know of. It remains to be seen if he cries much in the weeks ahead.

As to any essential difference, maybe Greenwald isn’t merely promoting himself. And there are some pictures that don’t seem to be made up.
Here’s The $2 Billion Facility Where The NSA Will Store And Analyze Your Communications
Michael Kelley and Brian Jones | Jun. 7, 2013, 12:55 PM

86 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:26:25pm

re: #78 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Sendero Luminoso

And don’t feel violated. I’m just saying there aren’t enough ears in government employ to listen to all those phone conversations. They may have had the ability to screen the numbers she/you dialed against known criminal/terrorist/insurgent members. They weren’t wasting Spanish speaking spooks on your pillow talk.

Seriously.

87 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:26:39pm

re: #84 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Damn right! Canuckistan all the way!

Canuckistan
o
m
m
u
n
i
s
m

88 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:27:48pm

re: #82 EPR-radar

I currently live in Oklahoma, and grew up in Kansas City, so NJ felt like paradise to me.

89 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:27:54pm

re: #85 abolitionist

Apart from their political orientations, what’s the essential difference between these two?

Beck has a blackboard, and seems to cry alot. Greenwald? No blackboard that I know of. It remains to be seen if he cries much in the weeks ahead.

As to any essential difference, maybe Greenwald isn’t merely promoting himself. And there are some pictures that don’t seem to be made up.
Here’s The $2 Billion Facility Where The NSA Will Store And Analyze Your Communications
Michael Kelley and Brian Jones | Jun. 7, 2013, 12:55 PM

I’ve known about that storage facility for years now. Not news to me.

90 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:28:24pm

I’ve never even heard of this Greenwald guy. He’s British?

91 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:28:38pm

Cops can also strip search you even if you don’t wind up in jail.

They can also collect your DNA.

92 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:29:27pm

re: #89 Gus

Not news to me either.

93 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:29:45pm

re: #84 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Damn right! Canuckistan all the way!

I knew it! Metric system is a commie plot, aimed at fluoridating our water and, um, tracking our google searches!

/i have a master’s in a hard science. that’s hard sarc.

94 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:29:53pm

They can also limit your access to abortion in many states. A topic not dear to the hearts of the all so called civil libertarians. Or as they sometimes say, “those Obamabot using abortion and contraception as distraction” as they did during the Rand Paul DRONES! filibusterer.

95 Christopher's Bitchins  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:30:52pm

Hello y’all, was unplugged for a while. Catching monster Nortens up der in stunningly beautiful Canada eh. Love the top comment “Just because we have been giving more attention to the wingnuts, doesn’t mean that moonbats have ceased to exist.” That’s a great reminder!

96 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:31:44pm

I just keep wondering if all these Wingnuts would be so upset about all this stuff if it was one of their guys in the White House.

97 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:31:51pm

They can also stop and frisk you. Almost at will. Another topic that’s dear to the heart of Glenn Greenwald. Much less the atrocities that take place in the slums of Brazil while he’s downing margaritas while being fanned by an entourage of cabana boys in his Rio mansion. Nope.

98 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:33:31pm

re: #89 Gus

I’ve known about that storage facility for years now. Not news to me.

Hey, I see a work-from-home employment opportunity! $15 an hour to pretend to listen to the billions of hours of recorded phone calls, starting from 10/2001. Maybe make all those layabouts who are collecting unemployment do it!

/

99 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:34:24pm

re: #96 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!

I just keep wondering if all these Wingnuts would be so upset about all this stuff if it was one of their guys in the White House.

no

100 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:34:38pm

re: #97 Gus

They can also stop and frisk you. If you’re black. Almost at will. Another topic that’s dear to the heart of Glenn Greenwald. Much less the atrocities that take place in the slums of Brazil while he’s downing margaritas while being fanned by an entourage of cabana boys in his Rio mansion. Nope.

Fixed.

101 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:35:36pm

re: #89 Gus

I’ve known about that storage facility for years now. Not news to me.

Wait. Is it named the Orrin Hatch NSA facility? Or was it another crafty Utah pol who took over when Byrd flew the coop?

102 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:39:53pm

re: #101 funky chicken

Wait. Is it named the Orrin Hatch NSA facility? Or was it another crafty Utah pol who took over when Byrd flew the coop?

Probably funded through a bill put together by Orrin Hatch and John Kerry. :O

103 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:40:17pm

Image: screen%20shot%202013-06-07%20at%202.26.46%20pm.png

104 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:41:14pm

re: #101 funky chicken

Wait. Is it named the Orrin Hatch NSA facility? Or was it another crafty Utah pol who took over when Byrd flew the coop?

From my link (#85) The facility, called the Utah Data Center, is located on Camp Williams, a training facility for the Utah National Guard, is set to open in October.

105 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:41:26pm

re: #97 Gus

The can also stop and frisk you. Almost at will.

They still need reasonable suspicion, as nebulous as that term is it may soon be substantially narrowed.

Floyd v. City of New York

106 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:42:37pm

re: #105 goddamnedfrank

They still need reasonable suspicion, as nebulous as that term is it may soon be substantially narrowed.

Floyd v. City of New York

Yeah, that’s coming to an end.

107 efuseakay  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:42:50pm

re: #96 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!

I just keep wondering if all these Wingnuts would be so upset about all this stuff if it was one of their guys in the White House.

7 years ago when this started. Did we hear from them? Not a peep. Anyone criticizing the Patriot Act was just as bad as the terraists.

108 AntonSirius  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:45:31pm

re: #69 efuseakay

Beck cries a lot more.

Greenwald’s too insecure to even fake that kind of weakness in public.

109 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:47:03pm

re: #107 efuseakay

7 years ago when this started. Did we hear from them? Not a peep. Anyone criticizing the Patriot Act was just as bad as the terraists.

Are you a terrorist? No? Then what have you got to hide?!

110 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:47:49pm

re: #108 AntonSirius

My son and I just started watching Arrested Development on Netflix. Greenwald reminds me of 2003 Buster, sadly. I hope I’m not being too mean to poor Buster.

111 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:49:10pm

re: #104 abolitionist

From my link (#85) The facility, called the Utah Data Center, is located on Camp Williams, a training facility for the Utah National Guard, is set to open in October.

Altho my link in #85 seems legit, a link in that line I quoted from, referencing the Utah Data Center, points to a parody website:
nsa.gov1.info

112 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:50:14pm

re: #107 efuseakay

7 years ago when this started. Did we hear from them? Not a peep. Anyone criticizing the Patriot Act was just as bad as the terraists.

PBO did not veto the re-authorization and neither did he kvetch about it being veto proof. He also defended the NSA’s mining of metadata from Verizon.

113 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:53:00pm

re: #112 Gus

and he’s right

114 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:53:08pm

This is why I insist all my clients pay me in chickens stuffed with ammunition and all my important correspondence is conducted over Marconi telegraph.

115 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:53:50pm

Utah Data Center

In August 2012, The New York Times published short documentaries by independent filmmakers entitled The Program,[12] planned for release in 2013, based on interviews with a whistleblower named William Binney, a designer of the NSA’s Stellar Wind project. The project had been designed for foreign signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection but, Binney alleged, after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, controls that limited unintentional collection of data pertaining to U.S. citizens were removed, prompting concerns by him and others that the actions were illegal and unconstitutional. Binney alleged that the Bluffdale facility was designed to store a broad range of domestic communications for data mining without warrants.[13]

However, Executive Order 12333, which governs United States intelligence activities, defines NSA’s missions as protecting sensitive or classified U.S. information from adversaries, or Information Assurance (IA), and collecting, processing, and disseminating intelligence information from foreign signals for intelligence and counterintelligence purposes and to support military operations, or Signals Intelligence (SIGINT).[14] NSA may monitor foreign communications, the collection of which do not require a warrant, including for those foreign communications which enter the United States and traverse U.S. networks.[15][16][17] This mission does not include monitoring communications of Americans in the United States. An NSA spokesperson said, “Many unfounded allegations have been made about the planned activities of the Utah Data Center,” and further said that “one of the biggest misconceptions about NSA is that we are unlawfully listening in on, or reading emails of, U.S. citizens. This is simply not the case.”[5]

The temporary Protect America Act of 2007 (PAA) and the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 (FAA) clarified and codified the legal conditions governing foreign intelligence collection within the United States several years after Binney left NSA. These allowed foreign SIGINT collection within the United States, but also specifying that an individualized warrant is required to collect on a U.S. citizen anywhere in the world.[6] On December 29, 2012, FAA was reauthorized until December 31, 2017.

During the Obama Administration, the NSA has officially continued operating under the new FISA guidelines.[18] However, in April 2009, officials at the United States Department of Justice acknowledged that the NSA had engaged in “overcollection” of domestic communications in excess of the FISA court’s authority, but claimed that the acts were unintentional and had since been rectified.[19]

116 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:54:13pm

re: #111 abolitionist

Heh. I knew it was in West Virginia.

117 AntonSirius  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:54:45pm

re: #110 funky chicken

My son and I just started watching Arrested Development on Netflix. Greenwald reminds me of 2003 Buster, sadly. I hope I’m not being too mean to poor Buster.

Well, that’s definitely cruel to Buster. He’s a far more plausible fictional character.

118 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:56:19pm

re: #113 funky chicken

and he’s right

Yes. Believe it or not there are people in this world who would jump at the chance at, for instance, putting a nuclear bomb in a container ship and setting it off near a large metropolitan area. In fact, merely exploding a large LPG ship would suffice.

119 AntonSirius  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:56:39pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

This is why I insist all my clients pay me in chickens stuffed with ammunition and all my important correspondence is conducted over Marconi telegraph.

I will only talk to my al Qaeda minions on Snapchat.

120 EPR-radar  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:56:57pm

re: #96 DO WINGNUT WORDS SHOW THEY EVOLVED BRAINS?11!!

I just keep wondering if all these Wingnuts would be so upset about all this stuff if it was one of their guys in the White House.

Of course not. Anyone whose opinion of US executive power markedly changed between 1/19/09 and 1/21/09 is most likely a shallow partisan fool.

121 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:58:11pm

re: #116 funky chicken

Heh. I knew it was in West Virginia.

What was in WV?

122 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:58:43pm

re: #119 AntonSirius

I will only talk to my al Qaeda minions on Snapchat.

We only use chatroulette. it takes a year to finally connect, but then nobody has eyes on us. lolz

123 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 6:59:42pm

re: #121 abolitionist

Sorry, just a joke. The NSA facility. Much of West Virginia is filled with behemoth federal buildings courtesy of Senator Byrd.

124 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:00:06pm

NSA PRESS RELEASE
6 January 2011
Groundbreaking Ceremony Held for $1.2 Billion Utah Data Center

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah - The National Security Agency and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers broke ground today on a $1.2 billion data center at Camp W.G. Williams National Guard Post here. The massive, one million square-foot facility currently is the largest U.S. Department of Defense project in the nation. “This will bring 5,000 to 10,000 new jobs during the construction and development phase,” Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, said at the event. “Once completed, it will support 100 to 200 permanent, high-paid employees.”

More than 200 personnel attended the ceremony, including Utah Lt. Gov. Greg Bell and other state and local representatives….

125 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:00:18pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

I’m going to reiterate, because I must, that it’s not crazy to be concerned about massive data-gathering programs like PRISM. There really are serious issues about personal privacy versus the connected Internet culture here, that are going to need to be addressed at some point in a real way, or they’ll continue to bite us on the ass.

Quite Concur. Though the challenge has become finding people whose concern is reasonable, rather than hysterical screaming.

126 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:01:10pm

NSA
Utah Data Center
Megadata
PRISM
1 Billion Bullets for DHS
MRAP Tanks…

FEMA CAMPS!!!TY

//

127 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:03:15pm

I do not want to go to FEMA camp in Utah. No booze. Jesus, what would I do?

128 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:03:25pm

The only candidate that would get rid of all this would be unelectable in a general election. That’s how I see it. Even then if the USA elected someone like that he’d probably get rid of other things and within one year the USA could be invaded by Ecuador while we’re all singing Kumbaya.

129 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:05:33pm

A protestor in Turkey forgot the rule about never touching a police officer:

Image: tumblr_mnzs58rJ0h1s8k2tdo1_400.gif


Note: I do not approve of the officer’s rubber bullet weapon. At point blank range that weapon can kill and firing it isn’t needed to effect an arrest. Using it as barricade to keep the protestor back or to pin him against a wall, however, would be acceptable.

130 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:06:19pm

re: #118 Gus

Yes. Believe it or not there are people in this world who would jump at the chance at, for instance, putting a nuclear bomb in a container ship and setting it off near a large metropolitan area. In fact, merely exploding a large LPG ship would suffice.

Yup. Ask Halifax.

131 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:06:26pm

re: #128 Gus

The only candidate that would get rid of all this would be unelectable in a general election. That’s how I see it. Even then if the USA elected someone like that he’d probably get rid of other things and within one year the USA could be invaded by Ecuador while we’re all singing Kumbaya.

Or clutching our bottles of Dr. Paul’s Elixer—guaranteed to prevent disease and bring eternal life! While dying of STEC from our wholesome Wal-Mart ground beef.

132 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:08:15pm

re: #131 funky chicken

Or clutching our bottles of Dr. Paul’s Elixer—guaranteed to prevent disease and bring eternal life! While dying of STEC from our wholesome Wal-Mart ground beef.

Just amazes me that we have people that think we can and should not have any secrets.

133 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:09:19pm

NSA was started under Harry Truman.

134 simoom  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:11:57pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

That NYT article is interesting. It strongly implies these leaks have everything to do with the Manning trial:

He said that he had been advised by lawyer friends that “he should be worried,” but he had decided that “what I am doing is exactly what the Constitution is about and I am not worried about it.”

…

While Mr. Greenwald notes that he often conducts interviews and breaks news in his columns, he describes himself as an activist and an advocate.

…

The leak, he said, came from “a reader of mine” who was comfortable working with him. The source, Mr. Greenwald said, “knew the views that I had and had an expectation of how I would display them.”

…

Because he has often argued in defense of Bradley Manning, the army private who was charged as the WikiLeaks source, he said he considered publishing the story on his own, and not for The Guardian, to assert that the protections owed a journalist should not require the imprimatur of an established publisher.

His source worked with him and had an expectation of how he would display the leaks, and that initial plan was to publish as a blogger and try and force a Manning-inspired constitutional challenge test case on citizen journalist leaking / whistleblowing.

135 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:12:06pm

re: #132 Gus

Just amazes me that we have people that think we can and should not have any secrets.

Some people fear the unknown.

136 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:12:44pm

re: #132 Gus

Just amazes me that we have people that think we can and should not have any secrets.

It reminds of the flap earlier this week about “secret” email accounts being used by government officials, which in reality turned out to be nothing more than unlisted accounts used by those officials to send important messages without worrying they’d be lost under the tidal wave of junk mail, hate mail, and death threats.

137 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:15:29pm

re: #135 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Some people fear the unknown.

See that door? You can’t go in there unless you have top secret clearance.

Yeah, let’s let anybody get a hold of our secrets. I’m sure it would make a world a better place. //

138 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:15:56pm

re: #132 Gus

Yeah. $1.2 billion should be spent on our highways and other infrastructure instead, of course, but no way that was gonna happen, I guess. DOD has plenty of buildings that could have been converted for less than 1.2 billion bucks, I’m sure.

139 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:16:28pm

And today’s award for weirdest description for something goes to:

“Lovejoy boldly went… through the Sun’s solar corona… Lovejoy violated the Sun’s violent outer atmosphere… a foreign object go through it… Lovejoy approached the sun… with a long, glowing tail… it got progressively brighter, reaching areas… tail began to swirl and wiggle… then it flicked back and forth… tail rippled while passing through…”

My thoughts on this quote.

140 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:16:54pm

re: #138 funky chicken

Yeah. $1.2 billion should be spent on our highways and other infrastructure instead, of course, but no way that was gonna happen, I guess. DOD has plenty of buildings that could have been converted for less than 1.2 billion bucks, I’m sure.

Not sure. Any conversion would have to include a massive HVAC retrofit for an older facility. Might be cheaper this way.

141 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:18:48pm
142 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:19:40pm

re: #141 Charles Johnson

NSA :D

143 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:20:55pm

re: #140 Gus

Huh. Well at least it’s in/close to Salt Lake City then? We’ve had friends at fairly remote bases in Utah and Idaho, and they sound awful.

144 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:22:17pm

re: #142 Gus

NSA :D

Indeed.

145 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:23:25pm

re: #141 Charles Johnson

One, there’s a different legal process for doing that, one that’s more complicated than what amounts to obtaining a pen registry as we’ve been told the NSA has done. Two, the sheer volume of electronic correspondence across our cellphones in any given hour would be so vast that picking out one conversation or email and acting upon it would take computing power not presently available. And three, assuming the first two are wrong, what position are we really in to do anything about it?

146 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:23:33pm

re: #144 Charles Johnson

Indeed.

Was tempted to make a “cold dead hands joke.”

147 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:25:09pm

re: #146 Gus

Was tempted to make a “cold dead hands joke.”

And in an ironic twist!


//

148 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:25:22pm

re: #146 Gus

Was tempted to make a “cold dead hands joke.”

More apt would be a Don Quixote reference, because Bill Maher is tilting at a windmill.

149 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:25:35pm

Vaccinations Derp.

150 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:28:39pm

re: #139 ProTARDISLiberal

The comments to that portion of the article are great:

DrillPress
Well, if nothing else Dvorsky might have a career in writing space porn:

(The Quote already shared)

I needed a cigarette after reading this article! LOL

FrankN.Stein
Must have been the music to the video…. :)

futurechildrenstory
Aw yeah.

AnaEboli
So is the sun pregnant now?

DrillPressUAnaEboli11L
I think the comet pulled out at the last minute…

151 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:29:31pm

It’s contagious.


152 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:31:12pm

Get it. Cold dead hands… anti-vaxxer Maher…

153 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:32:46pm

Too late!

154 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:34:05pm

The government is reading every email and listening to all phone conversations!!11ty

//

Congratulations on creating another urban legend Glenn.

155 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:39:08pm

Heh. MSNBC. Partially owned by General Electric.

NSA SIGINT Development Conference 2013

156 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:40:05pm

re: #154 Gus

Hey now, Bill Gates is still gonna send me that check for a few grand because I forwarded those emails though, right?

157 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:40:46pm

re: #153 Gus

Too late!

If it’s anything like the Verizon metadata program then the government probably is creating a database that requires another warrant to actually access with regards to any particular citizen. Archiving the data isn’t a huge problem for a government, the resources to meaningfully process and analyze it all are what’s lacking. So gathering until a request is made to monitor. The degree to which the FISA courts might simply be serving as a rubber stamp should be investigated though, what’s the exact purpose of a gatekeeper that never actually shuts the gate.

158 efuseakay  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:42:02pm

re: #112 Gus

PBO did not veto the re-authorization and neither did he kvetch about it being veto proof. He also defended the NSA’s mining of metadata from Verizon.

Yes. I know. But suddenly that’s the outrage and not the Patriot Act itself…

159 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:42:51pm

re: #157 goddamnedfrank

If it’s anything like the Verizon metadata program then the government probably is creating a database that requires another warrant to actually access with regards to any particular citizen. Archiving the data isn’t a huge problem for a government, the resources to meaningfully process and analyze it all are what’s lacking. So gathering until a request is made to monitor. The degree to which the FISA courts might simply be serving as a rubber stamp should be investigated though, what’s the exact purpose of a gatekeeper that never actually shuts the gate.

Unless they’re recording in real time then they won’t have anything to listen too. If that’s the case then the telecoms would have to record every single phone call in the USA and store it.

160 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:43:32pm

re: #155 Gus

Worth crashing for the cool swag if you are in town. Trust me on this one.

161 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:48:19pm

re: #123 funky chicken

Sorry, just a joke. The NSA facility. Much of West Virginia is filled with behemoth federal buildings courtesy of Senator Byrd.

You may have been joking, but

FBI ‘Going Dark’ with New Advanced Surveillance Program By Kim Zetter 05.11.09

The program is designed to help the agency address challenges with conducting surveillance over newish technologies, such as VoIP. The program is also doing research on automated link analysis to find connections between subjects of surveillance “and other investigative suspects.”

The budget report also discusses a Biometric Technology Center that is being developed jointly by the FBI, Defense Department and Justice Department in conjunction with the University of West Virginia for research and development of biometric technologies. The center is located at the Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division complex in Clarksburg, West Virginia.

BTW everyone, VoIP isn’t meta-data, it’s conversations.

162 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:49:02pm

I haz been on here too long today so I’m probably rambling at certain points.

163 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:52:35pm

re: #159 Gus

Unless they’re recording in real time then they won’t have anything to listen too. If that’s the case then the telecoms would have to record every single phone call in the USA and store it.

Also voice phone calls generate a ton more data than emails, credit card transactions and other metadata, they’re also a lot harder for a machine to analyze. It’s tempting to have that kind of data, but it’s also easy to drown in. Because it’s still classified it’s hard to know what they were originally gathering before the Bush era meltdown at Justice, but it would have been fairly simple for them to stop storing actual conversations because of how difficult that kind of data is/was to transcribe and interpret. The underlying constitutional issues may simply have served as motivation for Comey et al because there’s so much established case law governing audio recording, with the problems associated with handling that much data as a secondary concern.

Again, as long as the data is stored but only accessed for citizens upon the issuance of another, separate and specific warrant then they can honestly say that there’s no widespread “monitoring” going on, no matter what is being archived.

164 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:56:58pm

Watching this right now.

Youtube Video

165 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 7:57:14pm


Derp.

166 stabby  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:01:09pm

re: #9 goddamnedfrank

Greenwald is gay, Beck hates gays. Greenwald for all his flaws is at least somewhat intelligent and is much better educated, articulates his positions more clearly and can probably spell oligarchy correctly.

When Beck misspells oligarchy he would make every letter upper case, write it down his blackboard and turn it into an acronym proving that everyone left of Genghis Khan works directly for Satan.

167 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:02:00pm

re: #162 Gus

I haz been on here too long today so I’m probably rambling at certain points.

Sleep…sleep…

168 simoom  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:02:22pm

re: #161 abolitionist

You may have been joking, but

FBI ‘Going Dark’ with New Advanced Surveillance Program By Kim Zetter 05.11.09

BTW everyone, VoIP isn’t meta-data, it’s conversations.

That’s an FBI research program developing ways to do intercepts on internet telephony and video chat, when they have a warrant, just like they do with regular phone calls:

abcnews.go.com

“The term ‘Going Dark’ does not refer to a specific capability, but is a program name for the part of the FBI, Operational Technology Division’s (OTD) lawful interception program which is shared with other law enforcement agencies,” an FBI spokesman said.

“The term applies to the research and development of new tools, technical support and training initiatives.”

According to FBI officials, the program is designed to help the agency deal with changing technology and ways to intercept phone calls such as those used by VOIP (Voice Over Internet Protocol) phones or technology such as Skype.

169 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:03:57pm

re: #167 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Sleep…sleep…

Need whiskey first.

170 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:04:21pm

re: #165 Gus

171 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:05:07pm

Parts of the Patriot Act are going to be around forever, unfortunately. Parts of the Espionage Act of 1917 are still in force, and that was passed in a similar atmosphere of hysteria.

I guess another similarity of the two Glenns is that Greenwald hates Bush about as much as Beck hates Wilson.

172 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:09:12pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Well, if I were on twitter, I’d have said “except about vaccines?” but your answer was good too, DF.

173 Lancelot Link  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:10:54pm

What makes you think their political orientation is all that different?
Greenwald is not a leftist or a liberal and never has been one.
He’s more a Ron Paul type.

174 Lidane  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:14:15pm

re: #172 William Barnett-Lewis

Well, if I were on twitter, I’d have said “except about vaccines?” but your answer was good too, DF.

Yeah, this. I would’ve mentioned Maher’s anti-vax stupidity.

175 stabby  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:14:24pm

Bill Maher is a comedian. Exaggerating is part of his job.

176 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:15:54pm

re: #174 Lidane

Yeah, this. I would’ve mentioned Maher’s anti-vax stupidity.

If you look through Jane’s TL you can see that she’s nucking futs.

177 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:17:37pm

re: #174 Lidane

Yeah, this. I would’ve mentioned Maher’s anti-vax stupidity.

I did.

178 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:17:48pm

re: #175 stabby

Bill Maher is a comedian asshat. Exaggerating is part of his job.

FTFY.

179 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:17:55pm

re: #176 Gus

If you look through Jane’s TL you can see that she’s nucking futs.

Yup.

180 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:20:06pm

re: #178 William Barnett-Lewis

He’s the domestic abuser, right? I’m surprised women still appear on his show. Kind of like I’m surprised the Guardian would print this tripe from Glenn Greenwald.

181 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:20:25pm

re: #179 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Yup.

And an atheist. Proving once again! :D

182 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:20:49pm

re: #180 funky chicken

This I have never heard of. Linky?

183 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:21:38pm

re: #181 Gus

And an atheist. Proving once again! :D

Not that atheists are stupid. But that yes, being an atheist doesn’t make you some giant brain or something but in fact has its share of idiots.

184 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:23:56pm

re: #182 ProTARDISLiberal

it was an allegation in an ugly divorce from a while back. honestly don’t know if it’s true.

185 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:24:27pm

re: #180 funky chicken

He’s the domestic abuser, right? I’m surprised women still appear on his show. Kind of like I’m surprised the Guardian would print this tripe from Glenn Greenwald.

Never heard that, just know he’s hook, line & sinker into the anti-Vaxx asininity and I despise those sorts.

186 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:24:59pm


Moron.

187 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:26:11pm

Yeah, the IRS is exterminating Jews and shooting gypsies point blank in the head and tossing them into open graves. Yep.

188 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:26:49pm

The IRS is performing medical experiments on human beings.

189 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:27:19pm

re: #172 William Barnett-Lewis

Well, if I were on twitter, I’d have said “except about vaccines?” but your answer was good too, DF.

The problem with that is that someone nutty enough to mistake the linked-to article for something cooked up by Joseph Goebbels might well be an anti-vaxxer as well, in which case the counterattack might not have the desired effect.

190 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:27:46pm

re: #188 Gus

The IRS is performing medical experiments on human beings.

The Island of Doctor Moron

191 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:28:34pm

re: #186 Gus

Why don’t those damned Jews vote for Limbaugh’s party again? He’s such a welcoming spokesman for them.

192 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:30:10pm

re: #190 dragonath

The Island of Doctor Moron

The Island of Doctor Moreau FTFY!

193 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:30:42pm

re: #184 funky chicken

it was an allegation in an ugly divorce from a while back. honestly don’t know if it’s true.

It wasn’t a divorce, it was a $9 million dollar palimony suit that the judge threw out of court.

So clearly, yes, he must be a domestic abuser. /

194 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:30:56pm

Yeah. The IRS is rounding up gays, actors and communists and sending them to their deaths.

195 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:31:28pm

re: #185 William Barnett-Lewis

Yeah, maybe he roughed up his girlfriend, maybe he didn’t. But he definitely has provided a platform for information that has caused increased morbidity and mortality due to preventable illnesses, which is horrendous.

196 BigPapa  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:32:11pm

re: #188 Gus

The IRS is performing medical experiments on human beings.

WhydoyouhateMericaemoleftist?

197 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:32:58pm

re: #183 Gus

Not that atheists are stupid. But that yes, being an atheist doesn’t make you some giant brain or something but in fact has its share of idiots.

Does not!

wait…

Yes it does!

WTF was the question?

199 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:33:50pm

Ah historical perspective. Always a weakness of the moron.

200 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:33:55pm

re: #197 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Does not!

wait…

Yes it does!

WTF was the question?

Must. Do. Cold. Reboot.

201 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:34:56pm

re: #200 Gus

Must. Do. Cold. Reboot.

Ctrl-Alt-Del! Ctrl-Alt-Del!

202 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:35:16pm

re: #180 funky chicken

He’s the domestic abuser, right? I’m surprised women still appear on his show. Kind of like I’m surprised the Guardian would print this tripe from Glenn Greenwald.

Maher? I had never heard anything like that about him. But he is a well known anti-vaxxer which is a huge strike against him and his credibility.

203 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:38:59pm

The biggest problem with the two Glenns is they seldom offer any real solutions. It’s all good being a contrarian I suppose but offer something up instead of just finding fault with everything or claiming that everyone but you is devoid of principles and ideals.

204 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:39:41pm

re: #186 Gus

Let’s be fair. The IRS might be dumb enough to try to invade Russia in the winter?

205 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:40:00pm

Off to bed am I.

206 funky chicken  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:40:41pm

Yep, time to wrap it up for me too. Good night!

207 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:41:01pm

re: #205 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Off to bed am I.

Night. My character entry started stuttering. After I was Tweeting about the NSA. That can only mean one thing! I! Need new batteries.

208 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:41:20pm

re: #207 Gus

Night. My character entry started stuttering. After I was Tweeting about the NSA. That can only mean one thing! I! Need new batteries.

Keyboard.

209 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:41:45pm

re: #204 funky chicken

Let’s be fair. The IRS might be dumb enough to try to invade Russia in the winter?

Hah to be fair they did invade the USSR on the first day of Summer. Shit though, I’ve read about regimes whose death totals aren’t nearly as high as the Nazis and with those, you can see how absurd it is to compare something like the IRS thing to the Nazis. Mussolini’s blackshirts were actually attacking and murdering people that they had political problems with. We cheapen evil by comparing petty shit like that to what the Nazis and others actually were.

210 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:43:49pm

So. The moral of the story? Don’t be a terrorist.

211 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:44:25pm

re: #204 funky chicken

Let’s be fair. The IRS might be dumb enough to try to invade Russia in the winter?

Nobody’s THAT dumb, except of course Jim Hoft.

Germany actually launched Operation Barbarossa on June 22nd, 1941. The problem was that Germany was unable to win a decisive victory before the onset of winter.

Note: For operations by the US and her allies, I use ALLCAPS. Operations by hostile powers are in italics.

212 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:51:48pm

re: #209 HappyWarrior

Hah to be fair they did invade the USSR on the first day of Summer. Shit though, I’ve read about regimes whose death totals aren’t nearly as high as the Nazis and with those, you can see how absurd it is to compare something like the IRS thing to the Nazis. Mussolini’s blackshirts were actually attacking and murdering people that they had political problems with. We cheapen evil by comparing petty shit like that to what the Nazis and others actually were.

That was the actual purpose of the blackshirts. They were actually originally funded by the Italian upper classes to crush the Communist micro-insurrections Italy was experiencing in the early 1920’s. The rich were terrified of suffering the same fate as the upper classes in Russia had met, and so they decided to support the creation of a body of men who would do whatever it took to destroy Communism.

Things didn’t get that far in the US nationwide, but some of the mine strikes of that time featured strikebreakers every bit as nasty as the blackshirts. So, actually it DID happen here.

213 BigPapa  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:54:10pm

Teach the Controversy, High School History version:

Death Panels, FEMA Camps, and NSA phone taps

Who REALLY caused 9/11?

The UN: Green on the outside, pink on the inside

Arugula, the Homosexual Lettuce

214 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 8:54:48pm

I was about ready to begin ignoring Glenn Greenwald. Then he wrote, his eulogy, for Christopher Hitchens. Needless to say I became incensed since then and good ol’ Greenwald is on my chit list. I don’t however troll him. That would be nutty.

215 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:01:41pm

The other week I was harping on Erick Erickson. Suddenly, some Tweep cc’s their response to Erickson. I. Hate. That.

216 Gus  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:03:05pm

That’s like sub-trolling.

217 dragonath  Fri, Jun 7, 2013 9:05:19pm

re: #209 HappyWarrior

Hah to be fair they did invade the USSR on the first day of Summer. Shit though, I’ve read about regimes whose death totals aren’t nearly as high as the Nazis and with those, you can see how absurd it is to compare something like the IRS thing to the Nazis. Mussolini’s blackshirts were actually attacking and murdering people that they had political problems with. We cheapen evil by comparing petty shit like that to what the Nazis and others actually were.

I used to have a 16mm feature about the 1936 Olympics. I guess AAP (that’s right- the guys who distributed all those Looney Tunes) had to have something, so they edited out all the swastikas and stuff. You could totally make out the Blackshirts whenever Italy won a gold though.

218 Tigger2005  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 10:24:35am

Wingnuts hate the real America…the only America they will ever love is the fantasy America that exists only in their heads. Meanwhile, moonbats hate a totally evil, unredeemable America, the worst nation in the history of the world, that also exists only in their heads. That’s the way it goes with extremists. There can be no middle ground.

219 Kid A  Sat, Jun 8, 2013 3:15:15pm

Why does Glenn Beck hate The Ohio State University?


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