Greenwald Gloats, Twists Words of National Intelligence Director

Why libertarians love him so
Wingnuts • Views: 23,445

Glenn Greenwald now resorts to twisting the words of the Director of National Intelligence:

Here’s the article he’s responding to: Clapper: Leaks Are ‘Literally Gut-Wrenching,’ Leaker Being Sought.

Go ahead and read it; see if you can find a quote from the DNI that even comes close to what Greenwald said. It’s not there. He simply made it up.

More from Mr. Greenwald, as he mocks US security concerns and threatens to release even more sensitive information:

I’m pretty sure I didn’t vote for Glenn Greenwald; and although I have serious reservations about the government culture of secrecy, Greenwald is the very last person I want deciding what should be secret and what shouldn’t.

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70 comments
1 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:12:34am

Glenn Greenwald: Defender of the Derp

2 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:13:04am
I’m pretty sure I didn’t vote for Glenn Greenwald

Exactly.

3 BigPapa  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:14:38am

Hell hath no fury like an aggro blogger scorned

4 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:15:49am

re: #3 BigPapa

I prefer the original but yours is pretty good. :)

5 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:16:48am

Greenwald’s a tool. He got wrapped up with another idiot today as well on twitter…retweeting an eavesdrop from the airport.


Anyway, battery is low so it’s time to log out for a while. Have a good day all.

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:17:18am

Took a look at some libertarian websites, and they’re incredibly jubilant about what Greenwald is doing.

That’s the segment of society he really appeals to.

7 Dr. Matt  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:17:30am

Greenwald is the real life definition of a ‘concern troll’.

8 Dr. Matt  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:18:55am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Took a look at some libertarian websites, and they’re incredibly jubilant about what Greenwald is doing.

That’s the segment of society he really appeals to.

Firebaggers and libertarians are his target derptards.

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:32:56am

Well, this tweet certainly stirred up the cultists.

10 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:32:57am

And Salon, the Guardian, Huffington Post, etc.

11 BigPapa  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:34:27am

The terrorists US Government want to destroy us because they hate our freedoms

12 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:34:43am

Apparently this was on HuffPo.

Image: George-W.-Obama.jpg

13 engineer cat  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:36:53am

NSA Announces Only People With Ironic Furniture Will Be Surveilled

attendees of fassbinder movies might also be targets in future

14 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:37:04am

re: #12 Gus

Derposhop

15 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:38:06am

Here is an interesting point from the Verizon court order.

Verizon court order

Check the last sentence.

16 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:39:05am

re: #15 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Here is an interesting point from the Verison court order.

Verison court order

“Z”

17 krypto  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:40:31am

Greenwald’s claim that terrorists obviously already know the government is trying to watch them is the kind of overly simplistic nonsense argument that I’d expect from Fox.

There is obviously every difference between terrorists knowing that the US government wants to watch them and knowing specifics of the methods the government has available, and therefore being better able to better evade detection and more likely succeed in any planned terror attack.

It is literally true that prior to this week, hardly anyone (including terrorists) knew that the government had such extensive data preserved of who was calling who in the past. Greenwald’s efforts to sneer at the idea that he has undermined US security to at least that extent does not change the fact that he did.

18 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:41:05am

re: #16 Gus

“Z”

Meant it’s Verizon.

19 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:41:23am

re: #16 Gus

“Z”

The point I’m trying to make is that the uproar is over information that the court order explicitly excludes.

20 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:42:03am

re: #19 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

The point I’m trying to make is that the uproar is over information that the court order explicitly excludes.

I know. Just pointing out that it’s Verizon with a “z.” :D

21 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:43:30am

re: #20 Gus

I know. Just pointing out that it’s Verizon with a “z.” :D

Damned American spelling.
re: #20 Gus

I know. Just pointing out that it’s Verizon with a “z.” :D

Fixed.

22 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:45:17am

Udall calls for ‘reopening’ of Patriot Act
Posted by CNN’s Kevin Liptak
June 9th, 2013 10:22 AM ET

(CNN) - Sen. Mark Udall, who’s long called for greater transparency in how the government collects data on Americans, said Sunday the law allowing that monitoring should be reopened for debate after new disclosures about the scope of the intelligence community’s snooping.

“It concerns me particularly because Americans didn’t know this. That’s why I’m calling for a reopening of the Patriot Act, I’m calling for a wholesome debate across the country,” Udall, a Colorado Democrat, said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

“Maybe Americans think this is OK, but I think the line has been drawn too far towards ‘We’re going to invade your privacy,’ versus ‘We’re going to respect your privacy,’ ” he told chief political correspondent Candy Crowley.

Good news, maybe. The bad news is that such debate will be mainly on Facebook and Twitter.

23 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:46:46am

Rogers: Greenwald ‘Doesn’t Have a Clue’ How NSA Works - the Hill’s Blog Briefing Room

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-Mich.) slammed journalist Glenn Greenwald, saying the reporter who broke the story of the National Security Agency’s surveillance of phone and internet data “doesn’t have a clue” how the program works.

“I know you reported that you interviewed, Greenwald, says that he’s got it all and now is an expert on the program. He doesn’t have a clue how this thing works,” said Rogers on ABC’s “This Week.”

24 eightyfiv  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:48:44am

I dunno, I’m a bit baffled how this can be both a non-story and yet “huge, grave damage” — merely by dulling the aura of secrecy? Chipping away at the stigma of leaking?

If the NSA had come out and simply said this, I would be totally supportive of them.

25 Randall Gross  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:50:54am

re: #15 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Here is an interesting point from the Verizon court order.

Verizon court order

Check the last sentence.

Yes, and like the article from yesterday, all of this was known in the 2005-2007 timeframe from Pro Publica and others.

26 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:54:10am

re: #24 eightyfiv

A program can be significant and effective without being intrusive and invasive.

I’m putting my money on the next big Obama scandal— the True Patriots will suddenly discover asset forfeiture and turn it into the government bankrupting people without trial.

27 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:54:22am

re: #24 eightyfiv

I dunno, I’m a bit baffled how this can be both a non-story and yet “huge, grave damage” — merely by dulling the aura of secrecy? Chipping away at the stigma of leaking?

If the NSA had come out and simply said this, I would be totally supportive of them.

Who said it was a “non-story?”

28 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:55:49am

re: #15 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Here is an interesting point from the Verison court order.

Verison court order

Check the last sentence.

Why Metadata Matters

What they are trying to say is that disclosure of metadata—the details about phone calls, without the actual voice—isn’t a big deal, not something for Americans to get upset about if the government knows. Let’s take a closer look at what they are saying:

They know you rang a phone sex service at 2:24 am and spoke for 18 minutes. But they don’t know what you talked about.
They know you called the suicide prevention hotline from the Golden Gate Bridge. But the topic of the call remains a secret.
They know you spoke with an HIV testing service, then your doctor, then your health insurance company in the same hour. But they don’t know what was discussed.
They know you received a call from the local NRA office while it was having a campaign against gun legislation, and then called your senators and congressional representatives immediately after. But the content of those calls remains safe from government intrusion.
They know you called a gynecologist, spoke for a half hour, and then called the local Planned Parenthood’s number later that day. But nobody knows what you spoke about.

J E Hoover would have been very happy to have so much intel on nearly everyone. How happy? He’d be the only one in those Progressive commercials.

29 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 10:59:56am

re: #28 abolitionist

Why Metadata Matters

J E Hoover would have been very happy to have so much intel on nearly everyone. How happy? He’d be the only one in those Progressive commercials.

Its also important to note I think, that all metadata requested was already being recorded by Verizon. I suspect that list of metadata was negotiated in advance of the FISA order, as to not overly burden the telecom companies. As other said, its more of a CYA measure for the telecoms than anything.

30 piratedan  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:00:14am

when data information mining is outlawed, only outlaws will have data information……

31 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:04:04am

Glenn Greenwald is a nutty ravizoid freak sandwich

32 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:04:29am

re: #29 McSpiff

Its also important to note I think, that all metadata requested was already being recorded by Verizon. I suspect that list of metadata was negotiated in advance of the FISA order, as to not overly burden the telecom companies. As other said, its more of a CYA measure for the telecoms than anything.

And that “number A called number B” is not-so-privileged information. Especially compared to the content of the call between A and B.

But the network of A calling B, B calling C, etc. is actually valuable unto itself, and thus the value of it to the intelligence community, carriers, and ad agencies.

33 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:04:33am

re: #28 abolitionist

Why Metadata Matters

J E Hoover would have been very happy to have so much intel on nearly everyone. How happy? He’d be the only one in those Progressive commercials.

They know those calls were made on your phone, but not who made them.

34 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:05:42am

re: #28 abolitionist

Why Metadata Matters

J E Hoover would have been very happy to have so much intel on nearly everyone. How happy? He’d be the only one in those Progressive commercials.

That article is really off-base.

The government does not “know” any of that stuff about you. There is a database containing that information, but it is not simply open to being searched by any government agent on a whim. They have to have specific reason to search and analyze this information, and they have to justify it to a court.

Blatant fear-mongering, and not accurate.

If it does turn out that the government has unrestricted access to this database, I’ll be the loudest critic in the room. But this kind of journalism is irresponsible and spreads fear based on a distorted misreading of the situation.

35 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:07:51am

re: #31 Vicious Babushka

Glenn Greenwald is a nutty ravizoid freak sandwich

Glenn has always been a strong supporter of Israel.

//

36 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:08:25am

re: #34 Charles Johnson

That article is really off-base.

The government does not “know” any of that stuff about you. There is a database containing that information, but it is not simply open to being searched by any government agent on a whim. They have to have specific reason to search and analyze this information, and they have to justify it to a court.

Blatant fear-mongering, and not accurate.

If it does turn out that the government has unrestricted access to this database, I’ll be the loudest critic in the room. But this kind of journalism is irresponsible and spreads fear based on a distorted misreading of the situation.

Source please? The Verizon court order I read required all call metadata be turned over. There’s no requirement for the federal government to obtain a second court order to use that data.

37 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:09:40am

re: #36 McSpiff

Source please? The Verizon court order I read required all call metadata be turned over. There’s no requirement for the federal government to obtain a second court order to use that data.

Note that the Verizon court order is totally seperate from the PRISM program that concerns facebook, apple, et all. In that case I agree, its requires specific warrants/court orders.

38 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:10:36am

Teh usual morans on Twitter are all a-Twitter that the Santa Monica shooter has an “Arabic” name.

39 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:10:36am

re: #31 Vicious Babushka

With lettuce, cheese and a pickle. That is never, ever wrong about anything. EVAR.

40 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:12:52am

re: #38 Vicious Babushka

What is it?

41 Randall Gross  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:13:26am

The people who do have access to all the data mined factoids regarding everyone in the US are Google, Amazon, Apple, and The Rubicon Project.
They aren’t sharing with the NSA because that data, and the abilities to get it, are too valuable to them.

42 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:13:29am

re: #38 Vicious Babushka

Teh usual morans on Twitter are all a-Twitter that the Santa Monica shooter has an “Arabic” name.

Derp. Yes, once in a blue moon someone will go nutso — that has an “Arabic sounding name” — and murder a bunch of people while not having anything to do with terrorism.

43 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:14:47am

re: #40 ProTARDISLiberal

What is it?

44 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:15:20am

re: #38 Vicious Babushka

Teh usual morans on Twitter are all a-Twitter that the Santa Monica shooter has an “Arabic” name.

They also claim they failed algebra “on principle.”

45 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:15:30am

Who else but Dim Jim would lead the derp pack.

46 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:15:56am

Keith Ellison smacks down George Will with his own words from 2006 on NSA spying

During a panel discussion on ABC News, Will linked the NSA’s practice of collecting the phone records of millions of Americans with a so-called “scandal” involving the Internal Revenue Service targeting conservative groups.

“This is where the IRS scandal metastasizes into a national security scandal,” Will opined. “Because I’m sure I’m not the only American saying — looking at the NSA information gathering and saying, ‘Well, this would really be a problem if we had the kind of government that, say, unleashes the IRS on political opponents. Oh, come to think about it, we do have that kind of government.’ And, therefore, the willingness to trust the executive branch is today minimal and should be.”

At that point, Ellison reached into his jacket pocket and pulled out Will’s 2006 column excoriating President George W. Bush’s administration for using the NSA to spy on Americans’ phone calls without a warrant and without congressional oversight.

“Besides, terrorism is not the only new danger of this era,” Will wrote. “Another is the administration’s argument that because the president is commander in chief, he is the ‘sole organ for the nation in foreign affairs.’”

“You were talking about George Bush as that time,” Ellison pointed out. “You know, George, I actually don’t disagree with much you said. My only problem is, you can’t make this an Obama problem. This is an executive problem.”

47 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:16:19am

re: #15 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Exactly what I said downstairs. Shame reality doesn’t enter into any political discourse anymore.

48 Varek Raith  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:18:16am

re: #12 Gus

Apparently this was on HuffPo.

Image: George-W.-Obama.jpg

Creepy.

49 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:21:53am

re: #36 McSpiff

Source please? The Verizon court order I read required all call metadata be turned over. There’s no requirement for the federal government to obtain a second court order to use that data.

Did you miss this point made by Charles?

“They have to have specific reason to search and analyze this information, and they have to justify it to a court.”

50 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:22:31am
Secondary Order

This Court having found that the Application of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) for an Order requiring the production of tangible things from Verizon Business Network Services, Inc. on behalf on MCI Communication Services INc., d/b/a Verizon Business Services (individually and collectively “Verizon”) satisfies the requirements of 50 U.S.C 1861,

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that, the Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency (NSA), upon service of this Order, and continue production on an ongoing daily basis thereafter for the duration of this Order, unless otherwise ordered by the Court, an electronic copy of the following tangible things: all call detail records or “telephony metadata” created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United states and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local calls. This order does not require Verizon to produce telephony metadata for communications wholly originating and terminating in foreign countries.

Transcription my own, any errors within are my fault.

There’s 0 oversight in this court order about how this data is to be used. There’s no additional requirement for subsequent court orders and I have no idea why you think there is Charles. The government doesn’t have access to the Verizon database, they have their own copy which Verizon updates daily.

51 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:22:41am

re: #48 Varek Raith

Creepy.

Stupid Huffington Post being stupid. I remember when Arianna Huffington was a drooling social conservative and Republican.

52 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:22:51am

re: #49 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Did you miss this point made by Charles?

No, I just think he’s wrong. See my above post.

53 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:34:39am

I saw someone sharing this article on Twitter.

Glenn Greenwald: Neither a Liberal Nor a Progressive.

Let’s unpack this. First, let’s have a collective eyeroll at the naivety and (probably surprising to him) Broder-like fetishization of bipartisanship. He’ll support a Republican, but wants the Republican to run with a Democrat? Why? Second, his “I’m hoping for a billionaire to save America from politics” stance is deeply anti-democratic. In effect, he’s hoping for someone to come in and bypass any elections until the presidential general election and just try to buy the election. Doesn’t he know enough to worry about a Ross Perot, or a Silvio Berlusconi?

The comments there are fantastic as well.

My impression of Greenwald is that he is an over-pampered upper-class twit who has an ego the size of Jupiter, and thinks of himself as a serious thinker, when in actuality, he is just a egotistical, nasty idiot with a damn big microphone.

54 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:36:18am

Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

…He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.
….snip….
He purposely chose, he said, to give the documents to journalists whose judgment he trusted about what should be public and what should remain concealed.

55 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:36:48am

re: #54 jaunte

Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

Douche.

56 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:37:22am

Oops. Forgot to remove that Tweet.

57 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:37:40am

re: #53 ProTARDISLiberal

That’s a pretty good summary. None of us know the guy personally, and in his personal life, he may be a nice guy, who knows? But this crap is really over the top and he could dial it back and engage people instead of being a jerk about all this and exploiting it for attention and a payoff.

58 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:40:29am
59 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:41:27am

Who could have foreseen that the latest form of communication could be the latest form of intelligence-gathering?

60 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:41:33am

re: #58 jaunte

On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent”, and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.

61 bratwurst  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:42:38am

re: #53 ProTARDISLiberal

I saw someone sharing this article on Twitter.

Glenn Greenwald: Neither a Liberal Nor a Progressive.

The comments there are fantastic as well.

My impression of Greenwald is that he is an over-pampered upper-class twit who has an ego the size of Jupiter, and thinks of himself as a serious thinker, when in actuality, he is just a egotistical, nasty idiot with a damn big microphone.

You know nothing of his upbringing or class…and this has nothing to do with the situation anyway. It is very clear he’s an egomaniac, but I don’t think he is an idiot either. Do you really think writing for Salon and The Guardian qualifies as a “damn big microphone”? I personally think a big part of what he is up to here is attempting to increase his reach out of frustration that he hasn’t gotten a great deal of attention…until the past few days.

62 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:43:52am

He’s in Hong Kong. Because HK has “spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent?”

63 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:43:56am

re: #60 Gus

Famously independent Hong Kong

64 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:46:00am

re: #50 McSpiff

And again, this is entirely different from the PRISM stuff.

But yeah, that’s a lot more than the NSA should just be able to have. It was ordered by a court and exists under congressional oversight so it’s legal for now.

65 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:46:20am

re: #60 Gus

And Hong Kong is part of the People’s Republic of China. One of the most repressive states on the planet. Not only that, but their are restrictions in Hong Kong much more onerous than in the US in terms personal freedoms.

66 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:47:12am

Article 23
The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People’s Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies.
basiclaw.gov.hk

67 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:53:03am

re: #66 jaunte

Trying to pass that law led to massive protests and the law being shelved.

68 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:53:25am

re: #64 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And again, this is entirely different from the PRISM stuff.

But yeah, that’s a lot more than the NSA should just be able to have. It was ordered by a court and exists under congressional oversight so it’s legal for now.

Exactly. Its not that without this order the data would be lost. Verizon already stores this. I’d be ok with a court order requiring them to increase the retention time (hell, make them keep it indefinitely) + subsequent court orders when requiring specific subscriber data. But the idea that saying a blanket order covering all telephony communications in the United States every day is somehow judicial oversight is laughable.

EDIT: If anything PRISM is the model that these programs should be forced to use.

69 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 12:09:53pm

re: #62 Gus

He’s in Hong Kong. Because HK has “spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent?”

Wow. And this moron worked for the NSA and security contractors? That’s terrifying.

70 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 2:00:00pm

re: #34 Charles Johnson

That article is really off-base.

The government does not “know” any of that stuff about you. There is a database containing that information, but it is not simply open to being searched by any government agent on a whim. They have to have specific reason to search and analyze this information, and they have to justify it to a court.

Blatant fear-mongering, and not accurate.

If it does turn out that the government has unrestricted access to this database, I’ll be the loudest critic in the room. But this kind of journalism is irresponsible and spreads fear based on a distorted misreading of the situation.

I don’t think it’s so far off-base. I’ve transcribed [partially] some explanation of “the situation” by William Binney, starting at 30:00 into this video,
Laura Poitras Surveillance Teach-In - YouTube

But I wanted to .. describe to you what it means to have all this kinds of information and how it can be correllated and used to target virtually everybody at one time, so you see the danger that’s present.. The stage is set for this danger to occur.

Now, they’re not competent to do it right now, so we probably have another 5 to 10 years before they get to this, but ..and I’ll never tell them how to do it.
…
But if you take several billion phones, phone records,
and you start building what we call a graph, that is,
you’re building social networks, and one node calls
another, and so on, you’re building that social network. Well it grows rather quickly up until the first couple billion entries, then it starts topping off, because you’re not adding new connections. What you’re doing is repeating the ones you’ve already assembled.
…
So that’s one domain, if you will. And then you add your emails, and you start graphing the relationships
to emails, then you get the social networks in emails.
…
Then you start doing that with money transactions.
…
Then you do it for your travels.
…
…
Eventually, if you automate it, you can watch everybody, all the time, in all the graphs. That’s the danger.

Bolding is mine for emphasis, and lest anyone think that Binney is just making shit up, I’d suggest starting at the beginning. From his self-intro: I didn’t focus on the US. I was focused on foreign threats. …Unfortunately, after 9-11, they took my solutions and directed them at this country, and everybody in it.


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