Hong Kong Covert Surveillance Law Allows Wiretapping, Bugging Homes, Reading Email

“A spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent?”
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NSA leaker Edward Snowden was quoted today saying that he chose to flee to Hong Kong because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.”

This statement is so far off base it beggars the imagination. We’re talking about the People’s Republic of China here, and even if Hong Kong still has some remnants of the rights they enjoyed as a British colony, they are quickly going the way of the dodo and continue to exist only by the tolerance of Beijing.

Here’s that “commitment to free speech,” in a 2006 article for the New York Times about a covert surveillance law that makes the Patriot Act look like child’s play: Hong Kong Surveillance Law Passes.

HONG KONG, Aug. 6 — Pro-Beijing lawmakers approved legislation here today giving broad authority to the police to conduct covert surveillance, including wiretapping phones, bugging homes and offices and monitoring e-mail.

The bill passed the 60-member Legislative Council on a vote of 32 to 0 soon after pro-democracy lawmakers walked out of the chamber in protest early this morning. The Democratic Party and its allies had tried to introduce nearly 200 amendments to the bill through four days of marathon debates, but all were defeated or ruled out of order. …

The government also promised not to use covert surveillance for political spying, but blocked efforts by democracy advocates to write an explicit ban on political surveillance into the law.

The new law requires the police and other security agencies to obtain the panel’s permission before entering anyone’s premises to place or operate surveillance equipment. But the heads of security agencies are allowed to order less intrusive surveillance, like monitoring e-mail and phone calls through servers and telecommunications switches, without obtaining the panel’s prior approval, although subject to review by the panel and by a commissioner named by the chief executive.

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433 comments

1 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:39:30pm

Shouldn’t Canada be the country you flee to if you want to go to some place that is like the US but more liberal?

2 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:41:03pm
3 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:41:17pm

The people of Hong Kong have a strong commitment to free speech— among other freedoms— having defeated a previous broader law with massive protests in 2003. The government of Hong Kong is a mix of pro-democracy and shills for the PRC. The pro-democracy wing of government walked out on this bill. But it looks like they’re outmatched, that the PRC— by outright buying when it can’t intimidate— is closing down the media freedoms in Hong Kong.

By doing so, I think they’re going to crater Hong Kong’s economic importance, but we’ll see.

4 [deleted]  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:43:25pm
5 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:43:39pm

Everything Greenwald falsely accused the US of doing is being done by the Hong Kong government, and more. This law allows them to BUG PEOPLE’S HOUSES with almost no oversight.

6 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:43:41pm

The bill passed the 60-member Legislative Council on a vote of 32 to 0 soon after pro-democracy lawmakers walked out of the chamber in protest early this morning.

Seems the walkout was promptly exploited by those remaining. Sad.

7 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:44:08pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Nelson Mandela passed away this morning.

Not yet.

8 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:44:48pm

re: #7 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Not yet.

No, it’s being confirmed right now.

9 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:44:50pm

re: #7 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Opps. I better remove my comment. I will wait.

10 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:46:42pm

re: #6 abolitionist

The bill passed the 60-member Legislative Council on a vote of 32 to 0 soon after pro-democracy lawmakers walked out of the chamber in protest early this morning.

Seems the walkout was promptly exploited by those remaining. Sad.

They only had 28 votes, so they couldn’t stop it.

11 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:46:54pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

No, it’s being confirmed right now.

Ok, I didn’t see any confirmations. Piers Morgan claimed he died yesterday so I am a little skeptical.

12 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:47:36pm

I met Nelson Mandela (and used to have a photo but it got lost somewhere) backstage in the dressing room when the Al Jarreau band toured South Africa.

13 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:47:56pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Everything Greenwald falsely accused the US of doing is being done by the Hong Kong government, and more. This law allows them to BUG PEOPLE’S HOUSES with almost no oversight.

Here’s a link for the text of that law.

14 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:48:08pm

Repost from end of last thread, because I always do this -> post something after everyone’s moved on to the next party.

This raises an interesting question though, what would have been the best country for Snowden to flee to, setting aside for the moment the fact that you’re not Snowden and have no intention of ever leaking classified data on US government programs.

Andorra is pretty obvious, so ignore it. It’s also really tiny and they probably won’t let you naturalize or gain permanent resident status. I vote Vietnam, for the nightlife, or possibly Bali, Indonesia. Montenegro seems nice, and you might get an ocean view. Maybe go the other way and chill out in Nepal. But the choices are pretty sparse and few of the countries in grey have good track records on freedom of the press.

15 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:49:24pm

re: #11 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

OK, checked some more and it looks like he’s still hanging on at this point. Can’t trust journalist tweets, I guess.

16 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:50:38pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Could you please remove my #4? If he is not dead it is just wrong to say that.

17 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:51:19pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

Could you please remove my #4? If he is not dead it is just wrong to say that.

Deleted my own comment too. Don’t want to spread misinformation.

18 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:51:20pm

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

Could you please remove my #4? If he is not dead it is just wrong to say that.

Just go pencil it blank.

19 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:52:07pm

FUCK!

20 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:52:20pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

It is best to wait sometimes.

21 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:52:51pm

IT

22 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:53:04pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

I met Nelson Mandela (and used to have a photo but it got lost somewhere) backstage in the dressing room when the Al Jarreau band toured South Africa.

You lost a pic like that? That must hurt.

23 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:53:10pm

Here’s what I don’t get:

Hong Kong has some autonomy from the PRC, but is still part of the surveillance state. Snowden is currently peacocking what he knows about in a way that makes him sounds like a high value asset. Why wouldn’t the PRC apply every effort to interview him, or confiscate any data he has on him?

24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:53:13pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

The Marshall Islands are a pretty cool place, but really religious.

26 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:56:01pm

Former CIA Officer: Officials Considering [Snowden]’s Case ‘Potential Chinese Espionage’

Former CIA case officer Bob Baer revealed on CNN Sunday evening that intelligence officials were possibly considering Edward Snowden’s case as Chinese espionage, after Snowden came forward this afternoon from an undisclosed Hong Kong location.

“Hong Kong is controlled by Chinese intelligence,” Baer said. “It’s not an independent part of China at all. I’ve talked to a bunch of people in Washington today, in official positions, and they are looking at this as a potential Chinese espionage case.”

“On the face of it, it looks like it is under some sort of Chinese control, especially with the president meeting the premier today,” Baer said. “You have to ask what’s going on. China is not a friendly country and every aspect of that country is controlled. So why Hong Kong? Why didn’t he go to Sweden? Or, if he really wanted to make a statement, he should have done it on Capitol Hill.”

“It almost seems to me that this was a pointed affront to the United States on the day the president is meeting the Chinese leader,” Baer said, “telling us, listen, quit complaining about espionage and getting on the internet and our hacking. You are doing the same thing.”

27 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:56:49pm

There doesn’t seem to be any confirmation as to Mandela’s death.

28 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:57:00pm

Someone almost started that last night.

29 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:57:16pm
30 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:58:05pm

re: #24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The Marshall Islands are a pretty cool place, but really religious.

I thought the same thing about the Maldives, figured being on the run from the US government means I’ll be wanting to do a lot of drinking and anything that gets in the way of that would be a deal killer.

31 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:58:12pm

re: #29 Gus

Yup. Glad I didn’t retweet that. I saw several journalists jump on it.

32 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:59:08pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

Yup. Glad I didn’t retweet that. I saw several journalists jump on it.

Piers Norgan?

33 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:59:31pm

re: #24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The Marshall Islands are a pretty cool place, but really religious.

And all the good jobs require a security clearance—Kwajalein Missile Range.

34 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:59:35pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

Yup. Glad I didn’t retweet that. I saw several journalists jump on it.

That’s the beautiful thing about retweets! You don’t have to take responsibility for the veracity of the statement. You’re just observing that someone else said it.

(spits)

35 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 3:59:52pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

This is the latest that I could find. nytimes.com

36 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:00:05pm

I have my inner skeptic turned to high today. ‘I don’t believe it so prove it’ is my new mantra.

37 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:00:08pm

re: #27 Gus

There doesn’t seem to be any confirmation as to Mandela’s death.

We can still rely on Franco.

38 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:01:48pm

re: #37 Decatur Deb

We can still rely on Franco.

Me last night.

39 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:04:20pm

Alex Jones gets mockingly mocked and dismissively dismissed while going berserk during an interview on the BBC.

He still manages to plug his stupid videos and websites, though.

40 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:09:09pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Everything Greenwald falsely accused the US of doing is being done by the Hong Kong government, and more. This law allows them to BUG PEOPLE’S HOUSES with almost no oversight.

Which is ironic isn’t it, especially given the fact that’s where Edward Snowden ran off to, claiming they’re freer than us? Yet he accuses Obama of doing the same thing, yet claims we’re less free?

41 JamesWI  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:09:38pm

re: #23 The Ghost of a Flea

Here’s what I don’t get:

Hong Kong has some autonomy from the PRC, but is still part of the surveillance state. Snowden is currently peacocking what he knows about in a way that makes him sounds like a high value asset. Why wouldn’t the PRC apply every effort to interview him, or confiscate any data he has on him?

Yeah, I’m really starting to doubt the whole “benevolent guy just scared about what the U.S. is doing” story.

Think of all the other countries this guy could have gone to. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be a non-extradition country, because so-called “political crimes” are almost always exempt in the treaties. So he could have likely gone to dozens of other countries that don’t have such a track record for terrible human rights violations and the kind of snooping that he’s claiming he’s so worried about.

Instead, he just happens to go to the one country that would be most willing to pay for the sort of information this guy could have.

Yeah…..I tend to not believe in such coincidences….

42 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:10:43pm

re: #41 JamesWI

I think Bob Baer (simoom’s link) has a good point.

43 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:14:16pm

re: #41 JamesWI

Yeah, I’m really starting to doubt the whole “benevolent guy just scared about what the U.S. is doing” story.

Think of all the other countries this guy could have gone to. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be a non-extradition country, because so-called “political crimes” are almost always exempt in the treaties. So he could have likely gone to dozens of other countries that don’t have such a track record for terrible human rights violations and the kind of snooping that he’s claiming he’s so worried about.

Instead, he just happens to go to the one country that would be most willing to pay for the sort of information this guy could have.

Yeah…..I tend to not believe in such coincidences….

Yeah. This.

44 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:18:24pm
45 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:18:32pm

re: #41 JamesWI

Yeah, I’m really starting to doubt the whole “benevolent guy just scared about what the U.S. is doing” story.

Think of all the other countries this guy could have gone to. It doesn’t even necessarily have to be a non-extradition country, because so-called “political crimes” are almost always exempt in the treaties. So he could have likely gone to dozens of other countries that don’t have such a track record for terrible human rights violations and the kind of snooping that he’s claiming he’s so worried about.

Instead, he just happens to go to the one country that would be most willing to pay for the sort of information this guy could have.

Yeah…..I tend to not believe in such coincidences….

Probably why there’s talk, as noted above, that this might be a case of Chinese episonage. This isn’t the old days when they run to the local consulate and fork over microfiche tape. China might very well be paying this guy to be their patsy, releasing classified info to the world at the perfect time to fuck over attempts to browbeat their government about cyber terrorism. We’ll know more if they decide to just fork him over when the US applies for extradition.

46 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:20:34pm

Note to Ed..Running to China? Come-on!
Do you really want to be a small fish in a big country? You should be the big fish in a small country..Say..Like Cuba or something..I mean in Cuba you could be the Vice-Admiral of Communications and Blogging for the President or something cool. I mean Ed.. Go big or go home…Everybody does the Hong Kong thing..Ahem..At least try the noodles during your short stay in paradise..

47 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:24:37pm
48 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:25:53pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Everything Greenwald falsely accused the US of doing is being done by the Hong Kong government, and more. This law allows them to BUG PEOPLE’S HOUSES with almost no oversight.

And Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald appear to be this decade’s useful idiots.

49 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:26:04pm
50 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:26:55pm

The calls already to pardon Snowden are just sad. Apparently you no longer have responsibility for your actions if they further your personal politics. What’s that, you just violated a shitload of national security laws but it makes the president look like an idiot? Don’t worry, his critics will be quick to canonize you!

51 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:30:05pm
52 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:33:25pm
53 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:38:24pm

I can even wiretap the president. All I need is an email request…

Uh huh.

54 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:43:14pm

re: #50 Targetpractice

The calls already to pardon Snowden are just sad. Apparently you no longer have responsibility for your actions if they further your personal politics. What’s that, you just violated a shitload of national security laws but it makes the president look like an idiot? Don’t worry, his critics will be quick to canonize you!

He and Bradley Manning can share a cell in Supermax for all I care.

55 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:43:39pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

Repost from end of last thread, because I always do this -> post something after everyone’s moved on to the next party.

This raises an interesting question though, what would have been the best country for Snowden to flee to, setting aside for the moment the fact that you’re not Snowden and have no intention of ever leaking classified data on US government programs.

Andorra is pretty obvious, so ignore it. It’s also really tiny and they probably won’t let you naturalize or gain permanent resident status. I vote Vietnam, for the nightlife, or possibly Bali, Indonesia. Montenegro seems nice, and you might get an ocean view. Maybe go the other way and chill out in Nepal. But the choices are pretty sparse and few of the countries in grey have good track records on freedom of the press.

Dubai has some pretty fancy first-class hotels.

56 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:44:32pm

Good freaking grief.

57 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:44:54pm

Although Snowden seems more like an Assange-type personality. I just read an amazingly stupid quote about how he’s going to “suffer” for his “heroism” or something. Barf.

58 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:45:11pm

re: #11 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

Ok, I didn’t see any confirmations. Piers Morgan claimed he died yesterday so I am a little skeptical.

Well it IS CNN after all. The most trusted name in…in…gossip. Maybe.

59 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:45:55pm

re: #55 Vicious Babushka

Dubai would ship his sorry ass back.

60 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:47:34pm

re: #59 funky chicken

Dubai would ship his sorry ass back.

It’s not colored blue on the map, so I assumed no extradition. It is kind of expensive if you’re not a billionaire.

61 LWNJ  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:47:54pm

Glenn Beck and Glenn Greenwald are in agreement on the heroism of Mr. Snowden. Should that be considered a sign of the end times?

62 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:48:58pm

FYI Snowden is the guy whose guts spill out all over Yossarian in Catch-22.

63 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:49:46pm
64 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:50:27pm

re: #62 goddamnedfrank

FYI Snowden is the guy whose guts spill out all over Yossarian in Catch-22.

Was thinking about that. If in fact this is his real name.

65 Flounder  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:53:38pm

bullshit.
Snowden sounds like a tweeker.
I think he is completely spun on meth.

66 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:54:52pm

re: #65 Flounder

bullshit.
Snowden sounds like a tweeker.
I think he is completely spun on meth.

That’s hilarious. He sniffs once or twice during the interview. I immediately thought, “hmm, coke head.”

67 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:55:35pm

re: #39 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Alex Jones gets mockingly mocked and dismissively dismissed while going berserk during an interview on the BBC.

He still manages to plug his stupid videos and websites, though.

It’s rare that I get the warm fuzzies for the Beeb, but this time I’m happy to make an exception. Alex Jones is a toxic asshole who deserves every bit of mockery aimed in his direction.

68 Flounder  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:55:56pm

re: #66 Gus

Hawaii has a little meth problem, and a spam problem.

69 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:56:20pm

How in the fuck can a 29-year-old be described as a “career intelligence officer”?

However: NSA does recruit on college campuses. I was recruited by them in 1985, I passed the first local interview, but balked at the second interview (at some undisclosed location in the Baltimore/DC metro area) because it just creeped me right out.

70 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:56:38pm

re: #60 Vicious Babushka

I think that just means they aren’t required by treaty to send him back if they don’t want to. I think they’d want this clown gone.

71 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:57:13pm

re: #55 Vicious Babushka

Dubai has some pretty fancy first-class hotels.

I don’t know if I could handle Dubai. It’s seems like this strange thing in the middle of the desert that only exists because of the petrochemical industry. When that party starts to wind down I get the feeling things could go sour in a hurry. Plus you have to get a special license to buy alcohol, violating the free access to hooch rule I established in #30. I do better in cool climates anyway, and at least Vietnam and Bali have reasonable weather in the highlands.

72 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:57:14pm

I think he is just making shit up for his 15 minutes of fame, and he wants a sugar daddy.

73 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 4:57:48pm

re: #71 goddamnedfrank

I don’t know if I could handle Dubai. It’s seems like this strange thing in the middle of the desert that only exists because of the petrochemical industry. When that party starts to wind down I get the feeling things could go sour in a hurry. Plus you have to get a special license to buy alcohol, violating the free access to hooch rule I established in #30. I do better in cool climates anyway, and at least Vietnam and Bali have reasonable weather in the highlands.

Dubai is so NOT on my bucket list.

74 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:00:27pm

re: #73 Vicious Babushka

Dubai is so NOT on my bucket list.

I don’t think they’d let you in, since like most places in the Middle East they have a serious bee in their bonnet when it comes to Jews.

75 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:00:49pm

re: #72 Vicious Babushka

I think he is just making shit up for his 15 minutes of fame, and he wants a sugar daddy.

Looks like he got one. And wait til the PayPal donations kick in. Look how much Zimmermann milked his murdering someone for.

76 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:01:58pm

Dubai is not a bad place from November to February, at least from what I’ve heard. I don’t enjoy the flight from LA to Honolulu, so even the indoor skiing isn’t enough to tempt me to Fly Emirates personally.

77 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:03:43pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

The BBC is a damn sight better than the crap on this side of the pond. I’m generally a big fan of the BBC (Except for that twatwaffle Jeremy Clarkson), and would like Public Broadcasting to be a bigger thing in the US. I’ll trust the government over any private corporation.

78 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:03:49pm

re: #71 goddamnedfrank

I don’t know if I could handle Dubai. It’s seems like this strange thing in the middle of the desert that only exists because of the petrochemical industry. When that party starts to wind down I get the feeling things could go sour in a hurry. Plus you have to get a special license to buy alcohol, violating the free access to hooch rule I established in #30. I do better in cool climates anyway, and at least Vietnam and Bali have reasonable weather in the highlands.

Downtown HCM City (still called Saigon) is a blast. I really enjoyed the weeks we were there for the adoption. If I ever had to play expat, I’d go there in a heartbeat. Cheap prices, good food, decent booze, nice people and the least corrupt communist government I’ve dealt with. Heck, about 70% of the congressional offices up for election when we were there had 2 or more candidates that while all “Communist Party” members but still had more differences than the many congressional races here according to the people we worked with.

79 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:04:09pm

re: #74 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think they’d let you in, since like most places in the Middle East they have a serious bee in their bonnet when it comes to Jews.

My son has been to Dubai. He was a guest on a yacht owned by some Indian gazillionaire and they allowed him into the city, so it is already all Juiced up. Also, it is a popular destination for Israeli tourists (who can afford it).

80 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:04:10pm

re: #75 Joanne

Looks like he got one. And wait til the PayPal donations kick in. Look how much Zimmermann milked his murdering someone for.

And all of that money has gone to paying for his defense. Believe me when I say that George Zimmerman won’t get rich off of the money sent to pay for his lawyers.

81 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:05:13pm

re: #73 Vicious Babushka

Dubai is a desert mirage. Looks nice in the distance, but ugly up close.

82 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:06:20pm

re: #78 William Barnett-Lewis

Also, thanks for giving me another idea for future stuff.

83 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:06:50pm

I’m fairly certain that about 90% of the people who are calling Snowden a “hero” have absolutely no idea of the history of FISA or the NSA. They’re just reacting.

84 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:07:40pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

Good freaking grief.

BuzzFeed is all in on Snowden hero worshiping. They’ve made a bet about what sort of bias will net them the most traffic.

85 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:08:20pm

So we are rolling back from a photo/hike excursion, and on the news radio I heard Daniel Ellsberg calling this the most important leak in recent history. Called Snowden an American hero.

Huh.

86 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:09:52pm

re: #84 simoom

Heh…..and regarding your post #26, I wonder what sort of intellectual logic pretzels his worshippers will have to twist themselves into if indeed that hypothesis - Chinese espionage - turns out to be true.

87 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:10:25pm
88 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:11:26pm

TGDN has them some HUGH man-crush on Snowden.

89 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:11:27pm

re: #85 Political Atheist

Daniel Ellsberg? That is a blast from the past. /half kidding

90 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:12:17pm

They all want to be his BFF

91 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:12:25pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

And all of that money has gone to paying for his defense. Believe me when I say that George Zimmerman won’t get rich off of the money sent to pay for his lawyers.

Oh, ok. Then that’s ok.

/dripping

92 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:12:45pm
93 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:14:48pm

I made falafel crusted chicken for dinner. WIN.

94 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:15:48pm

re: #90 Vicious Babushka

They all want to be his BFF

Hey Breitbart jackasses, you excused the creation of this “police state,” you cheered it on as Congress set all of this in place. And now you have the balls to say it was put in place against your consent? BULLSHIT!

95 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:15:56pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE

96 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:16:14pm

re: #95 Kragar

OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE

I warned you it was TGDN.

97 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:16:49pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

And all of that money has gone to paying for his defense. Believe me when I say that George Zimmerman won’t get rich off of the money sent to pay for his lawyers.

Dark, Zim paid off his and his wife’s student loans. As well as credit cards before people got wise.

And he says he’s broke again.

98 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:16:53pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

To that tweeter, all I can say is

Image: 30D84CCA9.jpg

99 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:17:27pm

re: #84 simoom

BuzzFeed is all in on Snowden hero worshiping.

Here’s their Michael Hastings:


And some things he’s retweeted today:

100 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:17:52pm

re: #93 Vicious Babushka

I made a horrible batch of chicken and rice in the crock pot. I left it for too long while I was outside and it turned to glue basically. Never had that happen before. Too much rice, not enough liquid maybe? I don’t know. So, that’s my first screw up of the year, usually happens about 3 or 4 times. Not a bad track record for a home cook I guess.

101 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:19:28pm

It begins here:


Thus begins my trolling.

102 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:20:00pm

re: #96 Vicious Babushka

I warned you it was TGDN.

TGDN: Where all of US history reset itself in November 2007

103 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:20:29pm

I’m going for it tonight.

Made Moroccan spiced lamb and vege skewers.

I love my grill.

104 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:21:31pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

105 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:22:21pm

ZOMFG.

106 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:24:11pm

re: #101 Gus

Inclusive friend of the people…?

107 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:24:31pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

For all their talk of how Liberals and Democrats are blind sheep and followers, Republicans seem to worship Reagan.

Not sure if accusations towards the left are a result of projection, or total lack of self-awareness.

108 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:25:05pm

re: #107 ProTARDISLiberal

For all their talk of how Liberals and Democrats are blind sheep and followers, Republicans seem to worship Reagan.

Not sure if accusations towards the left are a result of projection, or total lack of self-awareness.

That tattoo on the girl is just creepy.

109 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:25:41pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

ZOMFG.

A lot better than a Che tattoo, though. (I’m not a tattoo fan)

110 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:27:11pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

A lot better than a Che tattoo, though. (I’m not a tattoo fan)

Maybe she asked for a Che tat and that’s what she got.

111 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:27:28pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

Beyond Creepy. To me, downright cultic. It’s like the cult of the Roman Emperor.

112 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:27:29pm

I warned him to get a lot of butthurt ointment.

Bwahahaha!

113 piratedan  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:28:06pm

is it okay if I do this, because I want to make sure I have the plot turns down correctly…

a few days back GG and WaPo get into a “me first!” match to post some supposedly incriminating crap regarding a data collection program that NSA has been running since the Bush Administration.

said program has a modest budget and makes requests and handles the metadata needs of the agency by using said queries against the data collected to profile and track persons of interest when their activity touches upon the web portals that the US has “control” over.

We find out that instead of all the tech companies rolling over and pumping Uncle Sam with everything that Uncle requests, that instead, they require that there be specific requests so that they can filter the data that will be forwarded so that it pertains to specific items. This ensures that “our” data isn’t being sent to Uncle Sam as he trolls the metadata seas.

When that begins to permeate through the media, the WaPo folks change their story to take a more cautious tone than the one with which they led with. GG and his “side” double down.

Then the guy who “leaked” the info to GG that exposes the potential for abuse by the NSA but doesn’t actually show any abuse examples, leaves the country for China while there is a cybercrimes meeting ongoing with the Chinese as the President continues to press the Chinese about their theft of intellectual and business property.

This somehow stands as vindication of the fact that OUR Government is the one stomping on personal freedoms.

is that a valid synopsis so far?

114 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:28:16pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

ZOMFG.

Why would you do such a thing?

115 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:28:36pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

And weird. I mean I love being an American woman. I know I’m pretty lucky compared to other parts of the planet and how they treat their female people. But there’s not a snowballs chance at the beach that I’d ever get anything related to ANY president tattooed on my body. It borders on being fetishistic, and not in a fun way.

116 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:29:55pm

USA today: NSA whistle-blower hero or villain? Our view

….as Mandela discovered, the price of standing for principle can be tortuously high. Sometimes, it comes without any reward other than the satisfaction that comes from doing the right thing.

Snowden proclaims that’s enough for him, and if that proves true, his actions might indeed be proved heroic. But he faces many trials — literal and figurative — between now and then.

117 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:30:06pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

ZOMFG.

E W E

118 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:30:30pm

re: #117 Stanghazi

E W E

A tattoo like that is a baaad idea.

119 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:32:03pm

For all the faux scandals, as the dust settles a growing impatience with the ongoing extensions of the Patriot Act, the handling and history of FISA and the rest of the **cough** temporary anti *cough* terrorism comes out.

If my non scientific LGF poll is right most of us want the Patriot Act rescinded. Like most of us here I respect the Presidents work to increase the oversight on these programs. Public sentiment says that’s not good enough in the face of technology this powerful. I agree. This country needs to be the beacon of restraint and civil protections.

120 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:32:16pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

USA today: NSA whistle-blower hero or villain? Our view

Stupid and devoid of all sense of proportion. America under George W. Bush and Barack Obama is NOT apartheid South Africa.

121 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:32:47pm

This isn’t looking good.

122 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:33:39pm

re: #113 piratedan

Now we can all realize that the government collecting a database of our metadata is much, much worse than a little state-sponsored intellectual piracy.
Thanks, China!

123 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:33:56pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

This isn’t looking good.

For who?

124 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:33:59pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

ZOMFG.

A true tramp stamp.

125 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:34:35pm

re: #113 piratedan

is it okay if I do this, because I want to make sure I have the plot turns down correctly…

a few days back GG and WaPo get into a “me first!” match to post some supposedly incriminating crap regarding a data collection program that NSA has been running since the Bush Administration.

said program has a modest budget and makes requests and handles the metadata needs of the agency by using said queries against the data collected to profile and track persons of interest when their activity touches upon the web portals that the US has “control” over.

We find out that instead of all the tech companies rolling over and pumping Uncle Sam with everything that Uncle requests, that instead, they require that there be specific requests so that they can filter the data forwarded pertains to specific items so that the remainder of “our” data isn’t being sent.

When that begins to permeate through the media, the WaPo folks change their story to take a more cautious tone than the one with which they led with. GG and his “side” double down.

The the guy who “leaked” the info to GG that exposes the potential for abuse by the NSA but doesn’t actually show any abuse examples, leaves the country for China while there is a cybercrimes meeting ongoing with the Chinese as the President continues to press the Chinese about their theft of intellectual and business property.

This somehow stands as vindication of the fact that OUR Government is the one stomping on personal freedoms.

is that a valid synopsis so far?

There’s still some uncertainty about the section I bolded. The claim is out there that the NSA has some sort of thingie installed at the tech companies that gives them plausible deniability when the NSA wants to go fishing. Make of it what you will… I don’t think that issue’s decided one way or the other.

Also, Snowden’s bio seems to be, shall we say, somewhat embellished, and the lack of evidence for his more outlandish claims (like the fact that he could wiretap anybody, including Obama) is doing some serious damage to his overall credibility.

126 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:34:54pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

This isn’t looking good.

Thank you for your concern.

127 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:35:03pm

re: #123 Targetpractice

For who?

Would that be “for whom”?

I get so confused about these things.

128 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:35:52pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

Stupid and devoid of all sense of proportion. America under George W. Bush and Barack Obama is NOT apartheid South Africa.

He appears to have had nothing personal to gain and a great deal to lose. He sacrificed a comfortable, upwardly mobile life, a $200,000 annual income, his family and girlfriend for a life on the lam, if not in custody.

$200,000/yr for a 29-year-old (who does not even have a college degree) is just fantasy. Also he is jabbering about covert operations in Geneva in 2007 WHEN HE WAS 23.

Utter bullshit.

129 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:36:42pm

I’m guessing twitter user slinkybewmont is a stalker? I have a new fan!

130 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:37:13pm

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

$200,000/yr for a 29-year-old (who does not even have a college degree) is just fantasy. Also he is jabbering about covert operations in Geneva in 2007 WHEN HE WAS 23.

Utter bullshit.

To be perfectly frank, I hope that our intelligence organizations, as a rule, hire better liars.

131 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:38:00pm

here’s my surprised face, let me show you…

Booz Allen Hamilton room at the Koch Seminar Building in Aspen

132 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:38:28pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

Stupid and devoid of all sense of proportion. America under George W. Bush and Barack Obama is NOT apartheid South Africa.

Of course not. What makes this more troubling to me is USA is hardly a far left outlet. If this guy does get mainstream acceptance and friendly coverage from the press this could spell trouble. This leaves Obama with no good choices, Change the law and give this fringe on both sides a victory or prosecute him and risk the backlash for clamping down on “whistle blowers”. I guess Obama will go with the middle ground of making a highly “nuanced” speech and promise to look into the issue without doing anything, it’s worked for him in the past but I think on the heels of the DoJ investigating reporters and leaks the mainstream press isn’t going to fall for it this time.

133 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:38:31pm
134 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:39:08pm

They’re giving away Snowdens?

135 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:39:10pm

re: #130 erik_t

To be perfectly frank …

My job.

136 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:39:32pm

re: #134 Vicious Babushka

They’re giving away Snowdens?

Pass.

137 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:40:00pm

Oops, Charles is deleting himself :(

138 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:40:14pm

re: #129 darthstar

I’m guessing twitter user slinkybewmont is a stalker? I have a new fan!

Yes, that account is used by one of Dorkus’ motley crew. It is used to spew Stalker BS and DERP at Charles and anyone notable here.

[Waves to the Stalkers]

140 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:41:16pm

re: #125 AntonSirius

The claim is out there that the NSA has some sort of thingie installed at the tech companies that gives them plausible deniability when the NSA wants to go fishing

Might that be this thingie?

wired.com

141 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:41:39pm

re: #123 Targetpractice

For who?

For Obama and Dem leadership who have the burden of leadership. This might quickly fade but it’s starting to look more serious if mainstream news outlets start falling in love with this guy. If Obama caves to public pressure to weaken laws to catch terrorists we all know what’s going to happen when (not if) the next terrorist attack happens.

142 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:41:44pm

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

Breitbart: Snowden says “I Had Authority to Wiretap Anyone”

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

143 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:41:47pm

re: #113 piratedan

That pretty much nails it.

144 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:41:49pm

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

Breitbart: Snowden says “I Had Authority to Wiretap Anyone”

And if you believe that, Alouette’s got a bridge to sell you.

145 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:42:31pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

And if you believe that, Alouette’s got a bridge to sell you.

Matty Moroun already bought the bridge.

146 Dr. Matt  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:43:18pm

Manning and Snowden should be made into the first actual Human Centipede. I’ll even finance the operations. Traitor pricks.

147 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:43:56pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

the mainstream press isn’t going to fall for it this time.

Of all the weekends to type such a thing…

You never cease to entertain.

149 BeenHereAwhile  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:44:19pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

That tattoo on the girl is just creepy.

Sunlight causes tattoos to fade and skin cell replacement causes them to blur.

It’s going to be an ugly smudge in 10 years.

150 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:44:58pm

re: #133 Vicious Babushka

Yeah, they say its free, but only if you buy a Snowden of equal or greater value first.

151 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:46:01pm

re: #129 darthstar

That would be a yes.

152 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:46:12pm

re: #149 BeenHereAwhile

Sunlight causes tattoos to fade and skin cell replacement causes them to blur.

It’s going to be an ugly smudge in 10 years.

and sersly wrinkly…

153 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:46:19pm
154 justaminute  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:46:26pm

Do you think that Snowden is one of those hacker types that spent his teenage years on his computer?

That somehow found enough fame that got his foot in the door in the surveillance industry.

155 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:46:56pm

re: #83 Charles Johnson

Probably already aware, but just in case, there’s something wonky going on with the tweet embedding. I’m seeing the embedded tweets and then a plaintext copy underneath in a number of comments.

156 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:47:12pm

re: #154 justaminute

Do you think that Snowden is one of those hacker types that spent his teenage years on his computer?

That somehow found enough fame that got his foot in the door in the surveillance industry.

No, I think he’s an office drone. A talented hacker whatnot would be able to come up with better stories.

157 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:48:32pm

re: #146 Dr. Matt

Manning and Snowden should be made into the first actual Human Centipede. I’ll even finance the operations. Traitor pricks.

158 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:49:17pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Might that be this thingie?

wired.com

It might indeed.

159 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:49:22pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

As I emphasized two days ago, The Guardian is making a big push to have more of an electronic presence in the US, as a way of keeping themselves from sinking away like the so much of the dead-tree press. I believe that the Greenwald exercise is part of this, a way for them to make a name for themselves.

But, and this is important, this whole affair shows once again how desperate our American media industry now requires a constant stream of CRISES! and LEAKS! and COVERUPS!, and so forth, to simply make money. They need consumer eyes-on-product, and the general trend has been the dissolution of the traditional business. Even the number of cable TV subscribers in the US is now falling.

The lure of sensationalism has always been there, but the bread and butter of the serious media had been in the not-quite-so-exciting stuff - adverts for local businesses, financial data, local events, obits, the police report, etc. That stuff was never exciting but filled 3/4ths of the papers. Now people use the internet or their smart-phones for these kind of things.

Personally I’m beginning to totally block off this stream of sensationalism, and I’m probably not the only one becoming numb to it.

160 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:49:37pm

re: #155 simoom

Probably already aware, but just in case, there’s something wonky going on with the tweet embedding. I’m seeing the embedded tweets and then a plaintext copy underneath in a number of comments.

Twitter’s messing around again.

161 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:50:23pm

re: #156 erik_t

No, I think he’s an office drone. A talented hacker whatnot would be able to come up with better stories.

Not necessarily. Some hackers are very computer focus and aren’t good liars in real life.

162 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:50:34pm

re: #119 Political Atheist

For all the faux scandals, as the dust settles a growing impatience with the ongoing extensions of the Patriot Act, the handling and history of FISA and the rest of the **cough** temporary anti *cough* terrorism comes out.

If my non scientific LGF poll is right most of us want the Patriot Act rescinded. Like most of us here I respect the Presidents work to increase the oversight on these programs. Public sentiment says that’s not good enough in the face of technology this powerful. I agree. This country needs to be the beacon of restraint and civil protections.

Missed that when you posted it, but I just bumped it to the top of the featured list.

163 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:52:38pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

I’ve got nothing against tattoos. I have three small ones on my back. But I’ll be damned before I get a single politican’s name on my body. EVER.

If you’re going to tattoo something on your body, it should mean something and be personal, because it’s expensive to get them lasered off later.

164 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:52:42pm

re: #159 freetoken

Personally I’m beginning to totally block off this stream of sensationalism, and I’m probably not the only one becoming numb to it.

I have to admit, it does get wearying having my bullshit detector go off all the damn time.

165 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:52:45pm

Almost time for the GoT season finale. I’m off to make some popcorn.

166 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:53:25pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

Not necessarily. Some hackers are very computer focus and aren’t good liars in real life.

This isn’t real life. This is talking about server backdoors and data centers. Only an imbecile of a techie would think that a meaningful fraction of Facebook’s or Google’s traffic could be collected and stored, never mind analyzed, on twenty million dollars a year.

167 Political Atheist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:53:34pm

re: #162 Charles Johnson

Thanks Charles.

168 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:57:40pm

*sigh*

One of the idiot Paultards on my FB list just posted this:

Wow, for the safety of this guy’s life, I hope the NSA planned/wanted him to leak info. In 2005, I took a tour of the National Cryptologic Museum, located on the grounds of the NSA (National Security Agency). We were told by the Docent that there has never been an NSA employee who has left the NSA and talked (exposed secrets). He contrasted it with the CIA, which is constantly having former employees leave and write books or tell stories. He said that has NEVER HAPPENED AT THE NSA….that’s how tight-lipped they are.

So apparently, this guy is going to be a martyr for the cause and TOTALLY GET KILLED FOR FREEDOM Y’ALL.

Ugh. Why are there so many idiots in this country?

169 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:58:21pm
170 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:00:16pm

re: #156 erik_t

No, I think he’s an office drone. A talented hacker whatnot would be able to come up with better stories.

Office drone, especially a contractor, not even 30 years old, no college degree would not be making anything like $200K. $35K is more like it.

171 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:01:35pm

Also, what laws has he broken?

Making up a bunch of self-aggrandizing bullshit is not illegal, last time I checked.

Booz Allen has already terminated his employment.

172 erik_t  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:03:16pm

re: #171 Vicious Babushka

Also, what laws has he broken?

Espionage Act, probably. Unless he’s made everything up.

Same as Manning.

173 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:04:00pm

re: #170 Vicious Babushka

Office drone, especially a contractor, not even 30 years old, no college degree would not be making anything like $200K. $35K is more like it.

Salaries for the job Snowden supposedly did in the security industry seem to be in the low $100K region, based on the Twitter chatter. I think the average I saw was around $116K.

Not all office drones are created equal.

174 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:04:12pm

re: #172 erik_t

Espionage Act, probably. Unless he’s made everything up.

Same as Manning.

I’ll take “Made Everything Up” for 200, Alec.

175 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:04:53pm

re: #173 AntonSirius

Salaries for the job Snowden supposedly did in the security industry seem to be in the low $100K region, based on the Twitter chatter. I think the average I saw was around $116K.

Not all office drones are created equal.

Maybe my salary experience is different because I am female. :(

176 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:07:54pm

Explosions Heard From NATO Site at Afghan Airport

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Large explosions are being heard coming from the military side of Kabul international airport, which houses a NATO headquarters.

The explosions began about 4:30 a.m. Monday from the direction of the military headquarters.

177 blueraven  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:09:05pm
Militants launched a suicide attack on Kabul shortly after dawn, police said, with loud explosions and gunfire heard near the Afghan capital’s airport.
Several blasts and bursts of small-arms fire erupted for at least 45 minutes and were ongoing, with the US embassy sounding its “duck and cover” alarm and its loudspeakers warning that the alarm was not a drill.
“It’s an ongoing gunfight and blasts, and I can tell you that it’s a suicide group attack,” Hashmat Stanikzai, Kabul’s police chief, told AFP.
Stanikzai said he was unable to confirm the target of the attack, but the explosions came from close to the airport area on the northeast side of the city.

en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com

178 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:09:22pm

My surprise, let me show you:

IRS Staff Undermine GOP Claims That White House Directed Targeting Of Conservative Groups, Top Democrat Says

Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) — the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee — pledged to release transcripts of interviews with Internal Revenue Service (IRS) officials that Republicans insist demonstrate that the agency’s targeting of conservative groups applying for 501(c)(4) status was directed by the Obama administration.

Cummings made the remarks on CNN’s State of the Union, a week after Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) appeared on the program and insinuated that the White House directed IRS agents to single out tea party and patriot groups for additional scrutiny. Issa has refused to provide evidence that substantiate that claim.

“I wrote Chairman Issa on Thursday and I wrote to him this morning. I want those transcripts to be released,” Cummings said. “I’m willing to come on your show next week with the chairman with the transcripts if he agrees to do that. If he doesn’t, I’ll release them by the end of the week.”

179 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:10:20pm

What terrorism?

180 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:13:12pm

re: #175 Vicious Babushka

Maybe my salary experience is different because I am female. :(

Pfft. Like girls can do IT.

(ducks)

181 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:15:03pm

re: #178 Kragar

My surprise, let me show you:

IRS Staff Undermine GOP Claims That White House Directed Targeting Of Conservative Groups, Top Democrat Says

It’s almost like Issa is a paid liar or something.

182 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:17:44pm

re: #179 Gus

What terrorism?

Benghazi?


/ducks

183 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:19:41pm

BBC host to Alex Jones: ‘You are the worst person I have ever interviewed’

To anyone familiar with Jones’s previous work in television, what transpired was closely reminiscent of his talk with CNN host Piers Morgan: a shouting match that featured Jones ranting about monstrous conspiracy theories, only stopping to occasionally plug his website.

“Bilderberg is heavily involved in the EU plan and helped hatched it and it is a Nazi plan,” Jones insisted during the program, drawing astonished looks from Neil and his guest, journalist David Aaronovitch.

“It leaves me with a huge question, Alex,” Aaronovitch said. “You have uncovered the New World Order, which is deadly, it’s full of people who are criminals… who seek to run the world and will kill anybody that gets in their way, and you are almost a lone crusader powering against them. So, how are you still alive?”

Jones responded by saying that he got death threats because he “exposed” Hillary Clinton attending a high-level meeting, and then emphasizing the popularity of his media empire online and how many views his videos get on YouTube. “Ladies and gentlemen, if they kill me they turn me into a martyr,” he insisted. “It puts a big exclamation point on the end of everything I’ve said.”

184 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:20:30pm

So Alex Jones defense is he’s a Jedi?

“Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you can imagine!”

185 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:23:15pm

VOMIT

186 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:24:22pm
187 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:25:26pm

So Clapper’s office has stated that the Snowden case has been referred to DOJ for possible violation of laws regarding classified info, and DOJ’s saying it can’t comment on on-going investigations.

188 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:25:44pm

re: #186 Stanghazi

… many members of media are asleep …

A multi-purpose statement.

189 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:28:01pm

Someone please explain how a 23-year-old kid could have a post as a “distinguished intelligence career officer” in Geneva. What, did he start his career at 12? A Dougie Howser?

190 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:32:25pm

You can call it SHITTER

191 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:32:51pm

Some of the desperate-to-prove-Liberal-cred bloggers are really going over the deep end over all of this. I consider it all an addiction to drama.

192 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:33:18pm

re: #189 Vicious Babushka

Someone please explain how a 23-year-old kid could have a post as a “distinguished intelligence career officer” in Geneva. What, did he start his career at 12? A Dougie Howser?

I know - that’s only one part of the story that doesn’t ring true. I’m also having a very hard time believing he could order a wiretap on the President from his desk as he claimed.

And I’m sure he knew that Glenn Greenwald was going to promote him as a hero, and get the entire left wing media establishment on his side, so how much “courage” did this really take … from a hotel room in Hong Kong?

193 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:33:41pm

HuffPost wants to be Showden’s BFF.

194 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:35:39pm

Like I’ve said downstairs, Greenwald has succeeded in pretty much poisoning the well on the subject. I’ve tried to talk to wingnut and moonbat alike about this and both are absolutely convinced now that the NSA has been listening in on people’s calls and reading their email without approval or authority. How do you have a serious discussion about the need to reign in our intelligence apparatus when they’re being accused of shit they haven’t done?

I fear the only result of all this is going to be a return to the pre-9/11 mentality of putting up a barbed wire fence between the intelligence agencies and the treating of any investigations as suspect. That instead of finding some measure of balance, we’re going to gut our ability to attain timely intel on threats both foreign and domestic in the name of a thin veneer of “privacy.”

195 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:36:23pm

re: #194 Targetpractice

Poison the well …. fill the wallet.

196 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:37:54pm

re: #194 Targetpractice

It’s like trying to have a serious discussion about terrorism with the MOOSLIMSAREEVIL!! crowd. You just can’t get anywhere.

The well is well past poisoned.

197 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:38:57pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

I know - that’s only one part of the story that doesn’t ring true. I’m also having a very hard time believing he could order a wiretap on the President from his desk as he claimed.

And I’m sure he knew that Glenn Greenwald was going to promote him as a hero, and get the entire left wing media establishment on his side, so how much “courage” did this really take … from a hotel room in Hong Kong?

Didn’t Allen West say he had higher security clearance than President Obama?

People can say anything.

198 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:40:20pm

And now the Guardian is trying to whitewash Hong Kong, because they know very well that there’s a serious problem in the story: Edward Snowden’s Choice of Hong Kong as Haven Is a High-Stakes Gamble | World News | guardian.co.uk

199 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:40:56pm

“Relatively liberal culture.”

Relative to WHAT?

200 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:41:45pm

re: #198 Charles Johnson

I went to HK once on a holiday (from Japan, of all places.)

HK is a nice place to visit.

I wouldn’t want to live there.

re: #199 Charles Johnson

“Relatively liberal culture.”

Relative to WHAT?

Saudi Arabia?

201 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:42:00pm

re: #198 Charles Johnson

And now the Guardian is trying to whitewash Hong Kong, because they know very well that there’s a serious problem in the story: Edward Snowden’s Choice of Hong Kong as Haven Is a High-Stakes Gamble | World News | guardian.co.uk

Activist journalism always has holes.

202 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:43:02pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

I know - that’s only one part of the story that doesn’t ring true. I’m also having a very hard time believing he could order a wiretap on the President from his desk as he claimed.

And I’m sure he knew that Glenn Greenwald was going to promote him as a hero, and get the entire left wing media establishment on his side, so how much “courage” did this really take … from a hotel room in Hong Kong?

None. And I bet he’ll be raising $$ hand over foot.

203 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:43:24pm

re: #198 Charles Johnson

And now the Guardian is trying to whitewash Hong Kong, because they know very well that there’s a serious problem in the story: Edward Snowden’s Choice of Hong Kong as Haven Is a High-Stakes Gamble | World News | guardian.co.uk

Apparently the argument is that it’s “relatively liberal” compared to the Mainland. But that’s like saying that the PRC is “relatively liberal” when compared to North Korea.

204 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:43:42pm

re: #199 Charles Johnson

“Relatively liberal culture.”

Relative to WHAT?

Gulags.

205 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:45:09pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

I know - that’s only one part of the story that doesn’t ring true. I’m also having a very hard time believing he could order a wiretap on the President from his desk as he claimed.

And I’m sure he knew that Glenn Greenwald was going to promote him as a hero, and get the entire left wing media establishment on his side, so how much “courage” did this really take … from a hotel room in Hong Kong?

It’s like he’s suggesting some kind of 5th column. It would have to be some kind of emergency procedure for say if the White House was taken over by hostile elements or just went plain crazy. He was like “yeah, I can even wiretap the president. All I need is the email.” Right.

206 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:46:34pm

The article also notes that Beijing has veto authority over the extradition treaty signed between HK and the US, which gives them cover when HK grants extradition but Beijing denies for whatever bullshit “political” reason it can think up. No doubt they’re thrilled by the possibility of taking such a high-level intelligence asset under their protection and providing his security…for a price.

207 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:47:13pm

re: #205 Gus

It’s like he’s suggesting some kind of 5rh column. It would have to be some kind of emergency procedure for say if the White House was taken over by hostile elements or just went plain crazy. He was like “yeah, I can even wiretap the president. All I need is the email.” Right.

“Execute order 66!”

208 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:50:32pm

“Sir, We’ve completed killing all the Jedis that were assigned to us.”

“Why would you - I SAID FIFTY SIX, YOU MORONS!”

“Oh… well, fuck.”

209 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:53:09pm

Whole thing stinks to high-heaven. And I’m not sure who’s playing whom. Is Snowden playing Greenwald for a fool or is Greenwald using him as a patsy? Did Snowden do this all of his own volition or is he on somebody’s payroll? Are the Chinese party to all this or just caught in the crossfire?

One thing’s for sure, any possibility there was that the Patriot Act would be the center of all this disappeared today. This story now has become about who Edward Snowden is, what makes him tick, and just how badly the government is going to fuck up his world before he either sees the inside of a cell or spends the rest of his life in exile.

210 LWNJ  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:54:03pm

It’s not reign in, it’s REIN IN! REIN IN! REIN IN!

/spelling nazi rant

211 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:54:18pm

Keep it up. Bleh.

facebook.com

212 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:54:45pm

Those aren’t wingnuts.

213 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:55:03pm

But they’re also not really reliable voters.

214 freetoken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:56:10pm

The various media will print just about anything with a straight face, even strange statements on mundane topics. This story caught my eye:


Some choosing natural burial to help environment

Ok, so wood coffins are making a comeback. But this is the part that rolled my eyes:

[…]

Sehee said green burial and natural burial are interchangeable terms for what his organization defines as a way of caring for the dead that furthers one or more environmental aims, such as reducing energy use or avoiding toxic chemicals. Advocates of natural burial generally reject the use of traditional embalming, metal caskets and burial vaults, but the concept embraces a wide range of options, he said.

Some consider it green to be buried in a grave with a liner — a concrete box used instead of a vault to enclose a casket — because the ingredients in concrete come from the Earth, he said. Some insist on burial only in a biodegradable enclosure, such as a natural-fiber shroud or a simple cardboard or wood casket with only natural finishes and no metal parts. A small number, like Laura Buzzelli, choose their burial to be part of a larger plan to return a tract of land to its natural state.

No matter the method, the common goal is to de-industrialize death, Sehee said.

“We’re trying to find a way to honor the dead, heal the living and invite in the divine,” he said.

[…]

So, where do the copper and tin in bronze come from, if not “from the Earth”? Oh, and I wonder if these people know that the cement used in that concrete liner took a great deal of energy to make, and in the process is a major source of CO2 in our industrialized world?

People will believe anything, and the press will print it with a straight face.

215 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:56:29pm

He shopped the story to WaPo before he went to Greenwald….
Code name ‘Verax’: Snowden, in exchanges with Post reporter, made clear he knew risks

I told him we would not make any guarantee about what we published or when. (The Post broke the story two weeks later, on Thursday. The Post sought the views of government officials about the potential harm to national security prior to publication and decided to reproduce only four of the 41 slides.)

Snowden replied succinctly, “I regret that we weren’t able to keep this project unilateral.” Shortly afterward he made contact with Glenn Greenwald of the British newspaper the Guardian.

That does raise another ethics question in the whole “whistle blowing”/media thing. The Post knew him and what he was doing, but at some point would they be obligated to turn him in? Suppose he was shopping around nuke schematics or bio warfare info? There’s a fine line in there somewhere.

216 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:57:09pm

More tinfoil (I have to stop googling)…

Carlyle Group bought Verizon Hawaii in 2004.
Snowden worked for Booz Allen Hamilton in Hawaii.
The “big reveal” involves Verizon phone records.
ETA: Carlyle Group also owns Booz Allen Hamilton.

(ducking and looking for mohr Scotch….)

217 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:57:21pm

Tiny group of people so far:

Going (49)

218 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:57:56pm

What a naive dumbass thing to say.. I guess a thank you is in order to him for saving the world..

” I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.”

219 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 6:59:29pm

re: #218 HoosierHoops

What a naive dumbass thing to say.. I guess a thank you is in order to him for saving the world..

” I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.”

Yeah- all nations large and small rely on secrets. It may be unpleasant but it is what it is. What I want to know is why someone who apparently is so uncomfortable with intelligence gathering would go work for an intelligence agency. I said it downstairs that I myself have been reluctant to apply at such agencies.

220 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:00:37pm

10 years as a “distinguished NSA/CIA security officer” but he’s 29 years old? HOW MANY YEARS HAS HE BEEN 29? Is he like a sparkly vampire, maybe his real name is Edward Cullin.

221 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:00:45pm

Good lord. This is apparently the new standard of writing for the Washington Post: Code Name ‘Verax’: Snowden, in Exchanges With Post Reporter, Made Clear He Knew Risks

Edward Joseph Snowden, 29, knew full well the risks he had undertaken and the awesome powers that would soon be arrayed to hunt for him. Pseudonyms were the least of his precautions as we corresponded from afar. Snowden was spilling some of the most sensitive secrets of a surveillance apparatus he had grown to detest. By late last month, he believed he was already “on the X” — exposure imminent.

If I previewed a Kindle book that opened like that, I’d delete it.

222 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:01:48pm

re: #220 Vicious Babushka

10 years as a “distinguished NSA/CIA security officer” but he’s 29 years old? HOW MANY YEARS HAS HE BEEN 29? Is he like a sparkly vampire, maybe his name is Edward Cullin.

Heh. Seriously though how does a nineteen year old get a job at the NSA or CIA?

223 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:02:00pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

He shopped the story to WaPo before he went to Greenwald….
Code name ‘Verax’: Snowden, in exchanges with Post reporter, made clear he knew risks

That does raise another ethics question in the whole “whistle blowing”/media thing. The Post knew him and what he was doing, but at some point would they be obligated to turn him in? Suppose he was shopping around nuke schematics or bio warfare info? There’s a fine line in there somewhere.

That really is a major question, isn’t it? What is the breaking point at which the need to inform the public is outweighed by the need to maintain national security? If Snowden had been shopping a list of agents that he claims were involved in this program, would WaPo turned him over to the authorities or published the story?

224 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:02:09pm

Thank goodness the Cold War is over. I don’t think we would have repelled the Soviets with this bunch we have around today.

225 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:03:58pm

re: #222 HappyWarrior

Heh. Seriously though how does a nineteen year old get a job at the NSA or CIA?

Oh, he claims he was in the Army at some point in the last 10 years and was on track to get into SF, but washed out when he broke both legs.

226 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:04:25pm

re: #225 Targetpractice

Oh, he claims he was in the Army at some point in the last 10 years and was on track to get into SF, but washed out when he broke both legs.

What is SF?

227 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:04:32pm
228 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:05:00pm

re: #226 Stanghazi

What is SF?

Special Forces. Or San Francisco.

229 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:06:47pm

re: #226 Stanghazi

What is SF?

Special Forces. Which was initially part of the reason people had such a hard time believing his story when it was thought he didn’t even have a GED.

230 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:07:12pm

re: #225 Targetpractice

Oh, he claims he was in the Army at some point in the last 10 years and was on track to get into SF, but washed out when he broke both legs.

You’d think that there would be someone to back that up. The guy’s whole story just seems fishy to me.The high school dropout, SF vet, NSA dude who was making over 6 figures a year. Right. I mean I’d like to revise my life story to say I was captain of the football team, couldn’t keep the girls off of me, and I would have been the next great linebacker for the Pittsburgh Steelers if I hadn’t torn my ACL.

231 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:07:40pm

re: #223 Targetpractice

That really is a major question, isn’t it? What is the breaking point at which the need to inform the public is outweighed by the need to maintain national security? If Snowden had been shopping a list of agents that he claims were involved in this program, would WaPo turned him over to the authorities or published the story?

It’s hard to tell where the line is. Here’s my thinking: This wasn’t about informing the public about something new. Everybody already knew about the program, it is legal and has proper judicial oversight. His leak didn’t really damage the NSA but what he did accomplish was naming the companies which does cause them problems and public relations problems for them. It also makes them more hesitant to cooperate in the future. I don’t think there was really much “news” value in the info he stole.

232 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:07:58pm

re: #199 Charles Johnson

“Relatively liberal culture.”

Relative to WHAT?

Relative to the tyrannical nightmare here in the United States, obviously.

233 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:09:21pm

OK, who plays Snowden & Greenwald in the movie? Because that’s really what they’re doing here, shopping a movie script.

234 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:09:24pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

It’s hard to tell where the line is. Here’s my thinking: This wasn’t about informing the public about something new. Everybody already knew about the program, it is legal and has proper judicial oversight. His leak didn’t really damage the NSA but what he did accomplish was naming the companies which does cause them problems and public relations problems for them. It also makes them more hesitant to cooperate in the future. I don’t think there was really much “news” value in the info he stole.

This is, assuming, that he actually stole any info. Considering what we’ve heard so far, I’m of the opinion that he got a peak behind the curtain, tried to reproduce what he saw, and then peddled it to the WaPo and Greenwald because they were the folks most likely to publish it without question instead of asking the government to weigh in on the national security implications of publishing such information.

235 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:09:39pm

re: #231 Killgore Trout

It’s hard to tell where the line is. Here’s my thinking: This wasn’t about informing the public about something new. Everybody already knew about the program, it is legal and has proper judicial oversight. His leak didn’t really damage the NSA but what he did accomplish was naming the companies which does cause them problems and public relations problems for them. It also makes them more hesitant to cooperate in the future. I don’t think there was really much “news” value in the info he stole.

If anything this leak shows there was more judicial oversight than initially thought. When the program was under Bush I heard a lot of people asking why they weren’t going through the FISA courts. Apparently they may have been. Go figure.

236 HoosierHoops  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:11:04pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

You’d think that there would be someone to back that up. The guy’s whole story just seems fishy to me.The high school dropout, SF vet, NSA dude who was making over 6 figures a year. Right. I mean I’d like to revise my life story to say I was captain of the football team, couldn’t keep the girls off of me, and I would have been the next great linebacker for the Pittsburgh Steelers if I hadn’t torn my ACL.

Very True..What is his story? Within 48 hours his whole life will be splayed over the Internet. Hopefully his supporters can raise enough money to get him an upgrade on the Hong Kong Hotel. He may need it.

237 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:11:23pm

re: #235 McSpiff

If anything this leak shows there was more judicial oversight than initially thought. When the program was under Bush I heard a lot of people asking why they weren’t going through the FISA courts. Apparently they may have been. Go figure.

And ironically the same right wing critics who now want to give Snowden a medal were many of the same people defending the Bush administration when it apparently wasn’t going through the FISA courts. The whole thing just stinks if you ask me.

238 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:12:05pm

Please tell me that Booz Allen Hamilton is going to take a hot for this. You are a security expert and yet you have an employee that has worked with you for three months that is giving away secrets. Doctor heal thyself.

239 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:12:43pm

re: #233 Vicious Babushka

OK, who plays Snowden & Greenwald in the movie? Because that’s really what they’re doing here, shopping a movie script.

Found Snowden.

Image: akiva.jpg

240 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:12:53pm
241 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:12:55pm

re: #233 Vicious Babushka

OK, who plays Snowden & Greenwald in the movie? Because that’s really what they’re doing here, shopping a movie script.

Why bother remaking such a classic? It was perfect the first time around.
Youtube Video

242 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:13:12pm

re: #239 Kragar

Found Snowden.

Image: akiva.jpg

Who is that?

243 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:15:02pm

re: #242 Vicious Babushka

Who is that?

Akiva Schaffer

244 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:15:06pm

re: #230 HappyWarrior

You’d think that there would be someone to back that up. The guy’s whole story just seems fishy to me.The high school dropout, SF vet, NSA dude who was making over 6 figures a year. Right. I mean I’d like to revise my life story to say I was captain of the football team, couldn’t keep the girls off of me, and I would have been the next great linebacker for the Pittsburgh Steelers if I hadn’t torn my ACL.

His whole story smells of overcompensation. In a span of 10 years, he was in the Army long enough to wash out of Special Forces training due to breaking both legs, was a “seasoned” CIA field agent at age 23 when he converted a Swiss banker into a asset, and in 3 months working as a private contractor for the NSA was drawing a six figure salary while having the power to access the president’s private email. And he says the only reason he didn’t go to the press in ‘07 is because he was hopeful that Obama would change the world overnight in his first term.

At least Ian Fleming had the good sense to make Bond a middle-aged man when he made him a super-spy.

245 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:15:25pm

re: #238 Iwouldprefernotto

Please tell me that Booz Allen Hamilton is going to take a hot for this. You are a security expert and yet you have an employee that has worked with you for three months that is giving away secrets. Doctor heal thyself.

Booz Hamilton doesn’t hand out security clearances. Just as with Manning this is mostly a failure of government, specifically FBI and NSA.

246 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:15:38pm

re: #243 Kragar

Akiva Schaffer

Who is that?

247 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:15:53pm

re: #235 McSpiff

If anything this leak shows there was more judicial oversight than initially thought. When the program was under Bush I heard a lot of people asking why they weren’t going through the FISA courts. Apparently they may have been. Go figure.

It’s hard to recall but that may have changed at some point. I seem to remember outrageous lefty headlines about “Patriot act thrown out by supreme court!!!” which really just meant at some point there was a court ruling which required some minor tinkering with the laws.

248 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:16:27pm

re: #240 Gus

Hey Glenn, stop using the Holocaust as a metaphor for everything the administration does that you don’t like. It’s extremely distasteful.
Signed,
someone who actually had family murdered by the Nazis.

249 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:16:47pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

Why bother remaking such a classic? It was perfect the first time around.

I forgot how good Sean Penn was in that film.

250 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:17:25pm

re: #246 Vicious Babushka

Who is that?

Writer for SNL, does some comedy work.

251 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:17:35pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

Why bother remaking such a classic? It was perfect the first time around.

First as tragedy, then as farce.

252 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:18:33pm

Call me crazy, but when I look at the picture of Edward Snowden, I don’t think “CIA super-spy.” I think “desk jockey,” the kind of guy who spends his weeks punching out reports and collating data for the actual spies, whose most dangerous assignment is weathering the anger of his boss because he failed to finish a vital report in time.

253 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:19:40pm

re: #252 Targetpractice

Call me crazy, but when I look at the picture of Edward Snowden, I don’t think “CIA super-spy.” I think “desk jockey,” the kind of guy who spends his weeks punching out reports and collating data for the actual spies, whose most dangerous assignment is weathering the anger of his boss because he failed to finish a vital report in time.

And writing a screenplay.

254 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:20:30pm
255 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:20:35pm

Glenn could be played by Rob Riggle

Image: rob-riggle-image-2.jpg

I’m definitely thinking of this as a farce.

256 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:20:54pm

I’m a young dude, younger than this guy. And in the few jobs I’ve had that have involved various protected information, and with the experience of my friends it really seems to come down to…

1) limiting access (need-to-know, proper document handling procedures, etc)
2) Making sure the guys you’re working with aren’t assholes

Other posters with higher classifications can correct me as they see fit ;-)
Its likely that thousands or more had access to the same information. Its just that most people in these roles aren’t in it for fame and glory.

But you get one asshole like this…

257 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:04pm
258 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:27pm

re: #253 Vicious Babushka

And writing a screenplay.

Living out his own little Jason Bourne fantasy.

259 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:46pm
260 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:22:03pm
261 Kragar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:22:13pm

re: #259 Vicious Babushka

By lying his ass off.

262 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:22:22pm

re: #245 goddamnedfrank

Booz Hamilton doesn’t hand out security clearances. Just as with Manning this is mostly a failure of government, specifically FBI and NSA.

True, but they are supposed to have some idea on what their employees are doing AND have safeguards in place.

263 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:22:29pm
264 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:22:56pm

re: #261 Kragar

By lying his ass off.

When you have the MSS providing your backstory…

265 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:24:02pm

re: #257 Vicious Babushka

So he portrays himself as a noble whistleblower who left everything he loved…and in reality he got thrown out of his house because the owner wanted to sell it. Why have I got the feeling this guy’s got money problems that recently got “solved”?

266 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:24:17pm

re: #245 goddamnedfrank

Booz Hamilton doesn’t hand out security clearances. Just as with Manning this is mostly a failure of government, specifically FBI and NSA.

If you are a contractor working for a government agency, you have to get Secret or Top Secret clearance as the job requires, the contracting agency is supposed to do the background check and get the clearance in order to make the job offer. You can’t work at a Secret or Top Secret facility without clearance.

267 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:25:04pm

re: #238 Iwouldprefernotto

Please tell me that Booz Allen Hamilton is going to take a hot for this. You are a security expert and yet you have an employee that has worked with you for three months that is giving away secrets. Doctor heal thyself.

To believe this story, first you have to believe that a guy without a HS diploma is getting hired by Booz Allen Hamilton at $200K a year.

268 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:26:30pm

Do we know if Snowden actually even spilled anything at all that’s the truth?
I’ve been back and forth doing yard work and baking all day and I’ve probably missed a lot of details. I’m just wondering what he’s said that’s so top secret. There’s a lot of dots not connecting here but it could be I’ve missed something. My instincts say he’s a lying sack o’ asshat, but perhaps he actually did spill real intel. Anyone know?

269 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:27:07pm

re: #267 Lidane

Now, now. He did get a GED apparently, and that made all the difference.
/

270 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:27:11pm

re: #262 Iwouldprefernotto

True, but they are supposed to have some idea on what their employees are doing AND have safeguards in place.

To my mind it all comes down to the same old problem of contracting out things that should remain under strict government control, like nuclear power. Every time we privatize the profit while the risk remains intrinsically socialized we’re creating a tragedy in waiting.

271 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:27:25pm

re: #268 A Mom Anon

Do we know if Snowden actually even spilled anything at all that’s the truth?
I’ve been back and forth doing yard work and baking all day and I’ve probably missed a lot of details. I’m just wondering what he’s said that’s so top secret. There’s a lot of dots not connecting here but it could be I’ve missed something. My instincts say he’s a lying sack o’ asshat, but perhaps he actually did spill real intel. Anyone know?

I haven’t heard anyone say the Verizon FISA order wasn’t real. It looks legit…

272 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:28:38pm

re: #270 goddamnedfrank

To my mind it all comes down to the same old problem of contracting out things that should remain under strict government control, like nuclear power. Every time we privatize the profit while the risk remains intrinsically socialized we’re creating a tragedy in waiting.

How far do you go with that though? Should the government be building their own fiber plants and semiconductor fabs?

273 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:29:09pm

re: #271 McSpiff

I haven’t heard anyone say the Verizon FISA order wasn’t real. It looks legit…

And that’s about it. Everything else, from the cooperation of telecom companies, to the Powerpoint slides, have either been denied or deemed questionable at best. Even senior agents have said that the slides look less like a report and more like an advertising campaign.

274 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:30:01pm

re: #273 Targetpractice

And that’s about it. Everything else, from the cooperation of telecom companies, to the Powerpoint slides, have either been denied or deemed questionable at best. Even senior agents have said that the slides look less like a report and more like an advertising campaign.

To me the Verizon order should be the real story, but its not because its complicated and you can’t explain it in a sexy soundbite…

275 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:31:51pm

re: #271 McSpiff

I haven’t heard anyone say the Verizon FISA order wasn’t real. It looks legit…

And BH admitted that Snowden worked for them, Clapper mentioned “reckless disclosures” and the government has launched an investigation. There may be holes in the specifics but I’m not sure people understand how the digital security industry works if they think that having a GED and no college diploma is some kind of absolute barrier to making $200K per year. It’s not.

276 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:32:08pm

re: #269 calochortus

Now, now. He did get a GED apparently, and that made all the difference.
/

Clearly. I mean, even an Office Manager for Booz Allen Hamilton has to have an extensive resume, DoD experience, and a college degree, but this special Snow(den)flake waltzes right in without a high school diploma and gets $200k?

Color me impressed.

277 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:34:35pm

re: #113 piratedan

is it okay if I do this, because I want to make sure I have the plot turns down correctly…

a few days back GG and WaPo get into a “me first!” match to post some supposedly incriminating crap regarding a data collection program that NSA has been running since the Bush Administration.

said program has a modest budget and makes requests and handles the metadata needs of the agency by using said queries against the data collected to profile and track persons of interest when their activity touches upon the web portals that the US has “control” over.

We find out that instead of all the tech companies rolling over and pumping Uncle Sam with everything that Uncle requests, that instead, they require that there be specific requests so that they can filter the data that will be forwarded so that it pertains to specific items. This ensures that “our” data isn’t being sent to Uncle Sam as he trolls the metadata seas.

When that begins to permeate through the media, the WaPo folks change their story to take a more cautious tone than the one with which they led with. GG and his “side” double down.

Then the guy who “leaked” the info to GG that exposes the potential for abuse by the NSA but doesn’t actually show any abuse examples, leaves the country for China while there is a cybercrimes meeting ongoing with the Chinese as the President continues to press the Chinese about their theft of intellectual and business property.

This somehow stands as vindication of the fact that OUR Government is the one stomping on personal freedoms.

is that a valid synopsis so far?

BINGO.

278 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:36:58pm

re: #276 Lidane

I’d actually be way more interested in knowing how he went from being a security guard to a top operative in Switzerland in, I think, 3 years.

279 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:37:55pm

re: #275 goddamnedfrank

You also have to factor in Hawaii’s cost of living index when judging whether that $200K number is completely out of bounds or not.

280 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:42:38pm
281 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:44:17pm

re: #280 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sooo…where is the girlfriend and why has the story changed?

Update 5: The Associated Press reports that Snowden and his girlfriend cleared out of their Hawaii house on May 1, “leaving nothing behind.”

Indeed, I keep wondering where the girlfriend is in all of this. Or his family, for what it’s worth. Would a guy who supposedly lives in such mortal fear of the government publicly identify himself, knowing that those connected to his but still in the US could be targeted?

282 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:44:57pm

re: #280 Backwoods_Sleuth

When you move out, you don’t usually leave a lot behind. Except maybe those 2 broken chairs that you couldn’t fit in the trash…

283 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:45:38pm

re: #280 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sooo…where is the girlfriend and why has the story changed?

Update 5: The Associated Press reports that Snowden and his girlfriend cleared out of their Hawaii house on May 1, “leaving nothing behind.”

284 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:46:48pm

re: #282 calochortus

When you move out, you don’t usually leave a lot behind. Except maybe those 2 broken chairs that you couldn’t fit in the trash…

I left a whole sofa with a hide-a-bed in it at one place I lived. It was too damn heavy to move.

285 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:46:56pm

Property Class Please select the Land Details tab.
Card 1
Story Height 1
Occupancy SINGLE-FAMILY
Full Baths 2
Total Living Area 1559
Bedrooms 3
Year Built 1989
Eff. Year Built
First Floor Living Area 1559
Half Baths

286 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:47:10pm

Just logged in, now that it’s morning here in China. My jaw hit the floor when I read Snowden fled to Hong Kong and is holed up in some swank hotel in fear of NSA hit men coming to snuff him.

Puhleease!

So many things wrong here, it’s hard to know where to begin.

1. HK is somewhat “freer” than big daddy China, but that’s like saying a tiger is somewhat tamer than a lion. HK residents can read relatively uncensored newspapers, watch TV programs that criticize the Beijing government, and gather in the streets to memorialize the Tian’anmen Square massacre of 1989. But HK no where close to being as free from government snooping as the USA.
2. Any “spy” worth his salt would know all that, and would find another more obscure place to hide out. “Spy” here = “career intelligence officer” [cough cough]
3. Spies in hiding don’t tell people they are in hiding. They certainly don’t talk to reporters about it.
4. Smart people living on savings don’t hole up in a swank hotel.
5. Snowden sounds like a drama queen.
6. Conversely, he’s been studying Alex Jones’ website too much.

And iIwonder if the author of the earth-shattering PowerPoint prezi was Snowden himself. He could have made a slapdash prezi specifically for his big whistleblowing debut.

The whole escapade smells worse than the Fulton fish market.

287 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:47:14pm

Target acquired.

288 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:48:17pm

re: #275 goddamnedfrank

And BH admitted that Snowden worked for them, Clapper mentioned “reckless disclosures” and the government has launched an investigation. There may be holes in the specifics but I’m not sure people understand how the digital security industry works if they think that having a GED and no college diploma is some kind of absolute barrier to making $200K per year. It’s not.

Yeah, I didn’t want to get into that too much but…

Enlist at 18 with a GED, serve till 26 with a Signals Unit, honorable medical discharge. The NSA isnt really a 100% civilian agency, your MOS is just as important as a degree. I’m sure that applies to its contractors as well.

289 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:49:40pm

re: #269 calochortus

Now, now. He did get a GED apparently, and that made all the difference.
/

When did he get the GED?

290 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:50:08pm

re: #282 calochortus

When you move out, you don’t usually leave a lot behind. Except maybe those 2 broken chairs that you couldn’t fit in the trash…

I wasn’t even thinking about the “nothing left behind”.

291 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:50:26pm

re: #286 wheat-dogghazi

Spies dont. Defectors on the other hand…

292 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:51:32pm

re: #284 Velvet Elvis

I left a whole sofa with a hide-a-bed in it at one place I lived. It was too damn heavy to move.

I left a couch, half cut in half and a chevy 350 block.

293 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:51:49pm

re: #289 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

When did he get the GED?

I think the Guardian article said he did so badly in high school that he had to make up the rest of his units at community college.

294 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:52:23pm

re: #291 McSpiff

Spies dont. Defectors on the other hand…

Stupid defectors. HK and China are not going to grant this nutter asylum.

295 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:52:26pm

re: #293 calochortus

This story is so full of holes, it’s on the ocean floor.

296 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:52:38pm

re: #288 McSpiff

Yeah, I didn’t want to get into that too much but…

Enlist at 18 with a GED, serve till 26 with a Signals Unit, honorable medical discharge. The NSA isnt really a 100% civilian agency, your MOS is just as important as a degree. I’m sure that applies to its contractors as well.

How did Signals Unit morph into Special Forces?

297 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:53:26pm

re: #270 goddamnedfrank

To my mind it all comes down to the same old problem of contracting out things that should remain under strict government control, like nuclear power. Every time we privatize the profit while the risk remains intrinsically socialized we’re creating a tragedy in waiting.

This. Exactly.

We pay more for less. And as evidenced by whatever the hell this thing with this guy is, government security should not ever be outsourced. Period.

Same with the military. Pay them 1/4 of what private contractors get and don’t take care of them. Total bullshit.

298 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:54:49pm

re: #296 Backwoods_Sleuth

How did Signals Unit morph into Special Forces?

I’m not saying he did any of that, thats just a possible scenario of how someone ends up in a role like that with only a GED. I’ve worked with more than a few guys with similar stories.

299 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:54:52pm

re: #293 calochortus

I think the Guardian article said he did so badly in high school that he had to make up the rest of his units at community college.

I think it said he cut out of community college. The GED would have been after leaving the CC.

300 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:56:20pm

re: #298 McSpiff

I’m not saying he did any of that, thats just a possible scenario of how someone ends up in a role like that with only a GED. I’ve worked with more than a few guys with similar stories.

And it works if one assumes that the part about the Swiss banker is absolute bullshit.

301 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:56:35pm

re: #294 wheat-dogghazi

Stupid defectors. HK and China are not going to grant this nutter asylum.

Huawei is getting A LOT of pressure due to supposed ties to the PRC government. This type of PR won’t help with US sales, but it will with friendly/on the fence countries. Stuff like that

302 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:56:50pm
303 McSpiff  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:57:16pm

re: #300 Targetpractice

And it works if one assumes that the part about the Swiss banker is absolute bullshit.

Oh yeah that’s totally nutso. This guy has delusions of grandeur for sure. I’m just thinking about how he could have ended up in the role that everyone admits he was in.

304 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:57:35pm

re: #302 Gus

What I said.

305 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:58:48pm

What a bunch of douche nozzles. If the feds were really tracking people on the internet and on the phone and knowing their every single move or breaking of laws we’d see at least half of America being arrested.

306 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:59:34pm

re: #303 McSpiff

Oh yeah that’s totally nutso. This guy has delusions of grandeur for sure. I’m just thinking about how he could have ended up in the role that everyone admits he was in.

So far, the only part of his story corroborated is that he worked for Booz Allen for 3 months.

307 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:01:30pm

re: #299 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I think it said he cut out of community college. The GED would have been after leaving the CC.

From The Guardian article:

By his own admission, he was not a stellar student. In order to get the credits necessary to obtain a high school diploma, he attended a community college in Maryland, studying computing, but never completed the coursework. (He later obtained his GED.)

Doesn’t say when he got the GED other than “later”, but it does say he got it.

308 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:04:50pm

re: #295 ProTARDISLiberal

This story is so full of holes, it’s on the ocean floor.

The Marianas Trench called. It said that this pile of Snowden bullshit is deeper.

309 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:06:35pm

re: #305 Gus

What a bunch of douche nozzles. If the feds were really tracking people on the internet and on the phone and knowing their every single move or breaking of laws we’d see at least half of America being arrested.

Not that I think there’s anything like TIA in effect or that there’s nearly as much domestic spying going on as Greenwald and Snowden claim, but your if / then doesn’t really take motivation into account either. An overt, obvious, totalitarian police state exerting total control would be very bad for the US economy, so it’s easy to envision hypothetical scenarios where a federal government turns a blind eye to most things that don’t directly threaten national security and stability.

310 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:07:54pm

SORRY, I HAVE TO ASK FOR your insights

Please check out Comment #1

****grrrr*****

311 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:10:34pm

re: #307 calochortus

From The Guardian article:

Doesn’t say when he got the GED other than “later”, but it does say he got it.

They added that in apparently:
theatlantic.com

* Update: The first version of The Guardian piece described Snowden as a high-school dropout, which raised a lot of eyebrows as the U.S. Army does not take people without either a high school diploma or a General Equivalency Diploma, with very rare exceptions. The paper later clarified that he holds a GED.

312 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:10:47pm

If this program is so overreaching and intrusive, why is there still so much crime? Why did the Boston bombing happen? If it’s everything the far lefties say it is, it should be much more effective.

313 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:12:28pm

re: #311 simoom

That explains the sentence somewhat further down about “without a diploma”. They did a poor job of editing. I had chalked it up to not understanding what a GED is…

314 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:12:47pm

re: #300 Targetpractice

And it works if one assumes that the part about the Swiss banker is absolute bullshit.

At best, I think that’s something he kind of overheard around the water cooler one day.

315 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:13:43pm

re: #309 goddamnedfrank

Not that I think there’s anything like TIA in effect or that there’s nearly as much domestic spying going on as Greenwald and Snowden claim, but your if / then doesn’t really take motivation into account either. An overt, obvious, totalitarian police state exerting total control would be very bad for the US economy, so it’s easy to envision hypothetical scenarios where a federal government turns a blind eye to most things that don’t directly threaten national security and stability.

But I think that’s always the case. That is, modern technology, it’s tools, by default, give a hypothetical state of potentially perfect tyranny.

316 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:13:54pm

re: #314 AntonSirius

Having gone back and re-read the article, Snowden gave that as an example of what people he worked with did that disillusioned him. He wasn’t claiming credit himself.

317 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:15:07pm

Reworded.

Modern technology, its tools, by default, gives a potentially tyrannical state the tools for a perfect tyranny.

318 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:15:19pm

re: #314 AntonSirius

At best, I think that’s something he kind of overheard around the water cooler one day.

I think he’s one water cooler short of an office gossip…

319 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:15:22pm
320 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:15:24pm

Its.

321 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:16:08pm

re: #320 Gus

The apostrophe of tyranny.

322 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:17:12pm

re: #321 jaunte

The apostrophe of tyranny.

It could just be a position in the comma sutra

323 AntonSirius  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:17:33pm

re: #316 calochortus

Having gone back and re-read the article, Snowden gave that as an example of what people he worked with did that disillusioned him. He wasn’t claiming credit himself.

Right, but it was presented as something he more or less directly witnessed, his ‘road to Damascus’ moment, and he’s just been biding his time since looking for a way to strike back against the Beast. That’s the part I think is probably bullshit.

324 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:17:37pm

re: #321 jaunte

The apostrophe of tyranny.

Damn you dirty apes apostrophes!

325 DelusionDeluge  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:19:13pm

Libertarians, who love to portray themselves as the rational critics of the crazies on both sides of the aisle, sure do act just as bad as those they sneer at when their pet causes are brought to the fore. Worse even. And let’s just come out and face it: A “libertarian” is just a Republican in the internet age who realizes they have to rebrand themselves. Sure, they attack the easy targets of the Christian right to give themselves cover, but these protectors of liberty are multiplying in comments sections and social media like little trojan horses carrying the same old white, male, straight, well-off father-knows-best bullshit. Does Ron Paul really care about “liberty”, or do he and his acolytes just see their grip on their controlling privilege eroding? The racist newsletters don’t work, they can’t overturn Roe v. Wade, so let’s call ourselves “libertarians” and get worked up about the government (i.e., Planned Parenthood, food stamps, rolling back civil rights, etc)! It’s just more b.s. for them to construct an argument about on the internet, like atheism, anti-feminism and everything else these pseudo-intellectual armchair quarterbacks like to bloviate about.

Greenwald, who in an alternate universe could be doing some good here it seems, is tickling them right in their sweet spot, and it is nauseating.

Sorry for the rant, but this seems like an appropriate place and time for it.

326 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:19:23pm

re: #323 AntonSirius

You are probably right.

327 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:19:52pm

re: #317 Gus

Reworded.

Modern technology, its tools, by default, gives a potentially tyrannical state the tools for a perfect tyranny.

Right, the curve of exercise of government power vs. prosperity has a peak and then falls off, with Somalia at one end and North Korea at the other.

328 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:19:53pm

The question had to be asked.

329 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:20:26pm

re: #323 AntonSirius

Right, but it was presented as something he more or less directly witnessed, his ‘road to Damascus’ moment, and he’s just been biding his time since looking for a way to strike back against the Beast. That’s the part I think is probably bullshit.

Which is what makes Snowden seem more and more like an idealist.

330 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:21:04pm
331 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:22:54pm

re: #308 Lidane

We are looking at Verona Rupes territory here.

Or the Oceans of Europa.

332 justaminute  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:24:23pm

Well nothing says protecting national security and secrets than these two guys:

Snowden a high school drop out and Manning, an Army private from Okie land.

Is this all an illusion?

333 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:24:42pm
334 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:24:57pm

re: #328 darthstar

The question had to be asked.

335 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:25:37pm
336 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:25:54pm
337 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:26:07pm

re: #334 Gus

I worked for them for a short while, as they bought the company that bought the company I worked for.

338 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:27:30pm

Y’know, I can’t remember reading in the history books that they stretched the reveal of the Pentagon Papers out over several days/weeks for ratings.

339 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:27:41pm

re: #336 Gus

“Tune in tomorrow for more, but first a message from our sponsors.”

340 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:27:45pm

re: #332 justaminute

No, it’s just fantasy.

341 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:27:46pm

re: #336 Gus

Now Greenwald is pretending to be a voice of reason? Fucking dick.

342 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:28:54pm

Greenwald should be deported. Now.

343 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:29:30pm

No charges filed. Let him become a Brazilian citizen.

344 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:29:37pm

But out.

345 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:29:59pm

re: #341 darthstar

Now Greenwald is pretending to be a voice of reason? Fucking dick.

Nah, in this case he’s pretending that he’s a concerned citizen rather than a scam artist who’s working with his employers to string people along for clicks.

346 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:30:35pm

[Throws rack of unwashed dishes down into the basement.]

347 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:31:08pm

re: #315 Gus

But I think that’s always the case. That is, modern technology, it’s tools, by default, give a hypothetical state of potentially perfect tyranny.

Modified by the culture of the people being oppressed. That’s the reason that the ship has probably long since sailed on the citizens of North Korea even trying to rebel vs. how difficult it would be to impose that kind of blatant and obvious level of control here. It also explains Clapper’s reaction, he sees the need for subtlety, because (intelligently or not) we still react and have some modicum of direct input in selecting who represents us.

348 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:31:21pm

Nuts. Cancer got Iain Banks at age 59. No more Culture novels.

:(

349 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:32:09pm

re: #342 Gus

Greenwald should be deported. Now.

He’s in Hong Kong.

350 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:32:59pm

re: #349 Stanghazi

He’s in Hong Kong.

I know. But he lives in Brazil. I’m harsh but not that harsh. :D

351 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:33:10pm

re: #342 Gus

Greenwald should be deported. Now.

He doesn’t live in the US.

352 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:33:35pm

re: #349 Stanghazi

He’s in Hong Kong.

Thought he was still here in the states and Snowden was in HK?

353 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:33:59pm

re: #351 Velvet Elvis

He doesn’t live in the US.

Never read of him changing citizenship. He’s probably on an extended Visa.

354 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:34:04pm

re: #350 Gus

I know. But he lives in Brazil. I’m harsh but not that harsh. :D

Youtube Video

355 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:34:31pm

re: #354 darthstar

It’s actually one of the better songs from the Simple Minds.

356 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:35:06pm

“Very few people use landline phones for much of anything. So when you talk about things like online chat, and social media messages, and emails, what you’re really talking about is the full extent of human communication.
— G. Greenwald, philosopher

357 sauceruney  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:35:12pm

Everytime I see Snowden, I think Snowman…

en.wikipedia.org

358 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:36:30pm

re: #349 Stanghazi

He’s in Hong Kong.

He’s in Rio de Janeiro. Doubtful we’ll issue an arrest warrant for him though, like it or not he works for an established foreign newspaper and has certain protections as a journalist. Should we even try the blowback would be pretty extreme, and it would do nothing to actually prevent future leaks.

359 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:36:52pm

re: #356 jaunte

“Very few people use landline phones for much of anything. So when you talk about things like online chat, and social media messages, and emails, what you’re really talking about is the full extent of human communication.
— G. Greenwald, philosopher

[citation needed]

360 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:38:12pm

re: #352 Targetpractice

Thought he was still here in the states and Snowden was in HK?

Glen’s been doing his interviews from Hong Kong.

Then you hear Snowden is there.

umm hmm.

361 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:39:04pm

re: #358 goddamnedfrank

He’s in Rio de Janeiro. Doubtful we’ll issue an arrest warrant for him though, like it or not he works for an established foreign newspaper and has certain protections as a journalist. Should we even try the blowback would be pretty extreme, and it would do nothing to actually prevent future leaks.

He was doing his interviews a couple of days ago from Hong Kong.

362 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:39:14pm

re: #359 Velvet Elvis

google.com

363 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:39:38pm
364 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:40:01pm

...

365 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:40:16pm

I’m drinking and having a really hard time not trolling in this DKOS diary:

dailykos.com

366 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:40:39pm
As for his part in this, Greenwald, live from Hong Kong, told Howie Kurtz….blah blah blah

mediabistro.com

367 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:41:16pm

re: #365 Velvet Elvis

I’m drinking and having a really hard time not trolling in this DKOS diary:

dailykos.com

Rachel went off the rails a couple of days ago, so it’s only fitting dKos should take a dip into the crap themselves…it’ll all settle down in a few weeks.

368 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:41:31pm

re: #365 Velvet Elvis

I’m drinking and having a really hard time not trolling in this DKOS diary:

dailykos.com

Quién es?

369 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:42:02pm

re: #363 Charles Johnson

Indeed, it’s rather sad that any meaningful debate over the Patriot Act and the Amendment to the FISA Act have been supplanted by Greenwald’s victimhood dance and the life & times of Edward Snowden.

370 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:42:05pm

re: #363 Charles Johnson

Not me I’m dropping napalm in mah A-4 Skyraider.

//

371 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:43:04pm

re: #368 Gus

Quién es?

?

372 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:43:53pm

re: #361 Stanghazi

He was doing his interviews a couple of days ago from Hong Kong.

He lives in Brazil though. Anyway he’s a citizen and couldn’t be deported even if he lived here. The precedent set in New York Times v. The United States, the Pentagon Papers case, also makes any kind of government action against Greenwald an uphill battle at best. Besides, he’s not the problem, people like Greenwald are a dime a dozen and Snowden would and could have used any one of them if he had to. Stopping the leaks at the source should be the goal, everything else is chasing symptoms at the expense of something we hold central and sacred to our national identity, the freedom of the press.

373 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:43:55pm

re: #371 Velvet Elvis

?

Oh. Who are you commenting as?

374 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:44:11pm
375 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:44:14pm

...

376 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:44:33pm
377 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:44:37pm

re: #375 Charles Johnson

..

378 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:44:40pm

...

379 Stanghazi  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:45:06pm
380 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:45:08pm

Testing posting tweets from Spy mode. Seems to be a bug somewhere.

381 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:45:12pm

re: #375 Charles Johnson
Testing?

382 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:45:42pm

Will there be math on this test?

383 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:46:24pm

re: #382 FemNaziBitch

Will there be math on this test?

Yes, and if it doesn’t add up, it’s a SCANDAL!

384 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:46:54pm

re: #369 Targetpractice

Indeed, it’s rather sad that any meaningful debate over the Patriot Act and the Amendment to the FISA Act have been supplanted by Greenwald’s victimhood dance and the life & times of Edward Snowden.

Indeed. Udall calls for ‘reopening’ of Patriot Act

385 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:47:17pm
386 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:47:18pm

Emoprogs in the fucking NSA. Let that sink in.

387 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:47:53pm

re: #380 Charles Johnson

Was wondering what was going on.

388 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:48:33pm
389 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:49:35pm

re: #388 FemNaziBitch

Cute.

390 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:49:37pm

re: #388 FemNaziBitch

cute or not-cute?

Cute for the next three months…then not so cute.

391 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:49:44pm

re: #387 ProTARDISLiberal

Was wondering what was going on.

Figured he was in the process of being replaced by a pod person.

///

392 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:49:52pm

Learn something new everyday

yep, that’s my motto!

393 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:50:23pm

re: #388 FemNaziBitch

cute or not-cute?

Mildred. :D

394 darthstar  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:51:23pm

Okay…time to shut down the machine and get some rest. Laterz.

395 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:51:24pm

re: #384 abolitionist

Indeed. Udall calls for ‘reopening’ of Patriot Act

And like I said above, any discussion now about the Patriot Act is colored by bullshit courtesy of Greenwald and Snowden. How do we have a meaningful discussion when the NSA is being accused of acts it hasn’t been proven to have engaged in?

396 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:51:48pm

re: #393 Gus

Mildred. :D

Kansas?

397 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:52:01pm

re: #373 Gus

Oh. Who are you commenting as?

I’ve used some form of this nick on pretty much every website I’m on for over ten years. I initially registered as something else here to hide my ID from the wingnuts who were still in the majority.

398 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:53:58pm

...

399 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:54:24pm

Just ignore any ellipsis comments from me. Testing.

400 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:55:16pm

Remember that you don’t have to condone the leakers to realize that some things should never have been classified in the the first place.

401 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:55:17pm
402 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:55:23pm

...

403 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:55:31pm

re: #392 FemNaziBitch

Learn something new everyday

yep, that’s my motto!

Pictures don’t even help me understand that term:
google.com

404 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:56:19pm

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, an author of the Patriot Act, heads over to the Guardian to have his partisan editorial published, playing off of their Snowden stories and tying in the IRS controversy for good measure:

This abuse of the Patriot Act must end

We’ve gotten used to what “Big Government” looks like - Washington’s unchecked deficit spending, the Obama administration’s policing of the press and the IRS’s targeting of conservative groups. But the problem is bigger than we thought. “Big Brother” is watching. And he is monitoring the phone calls and digital communications of every American, as well as of any foreigners who make or receive calls to or from the United States.

Last week, the Guardian reported that the Obama administration is collecting records of every call made to, from or within the US, as well as records of many digital communications.

President Obama’s claim that “this is the most transparent administration in history” has once again proven false. In fact, it appears that no administration has ever peered more closely or intimately into the lives of innocent Americans. The president should immediately direct his administration to stop abusing the US constitution.

We all know the saying “eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.” We are seeing that truth demonstrated once again.

Our liberties are secure only so long as we are prepared to defend them. I and many other members of Congress intend to take immediate action to ensure that such abuses are not repeated.

There’s something darkly amusing about Sensenbrenner using the left-leaning UK Guardian to re-position himself with his base. It works since they’re now getting sizable RightWing traffic as the right revels in the leaks.

405 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 8:59:46pm

re: #404 simoom

Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, an author of the Patriot Act, heads over to the Guardian to have his partisan editorial published, playing off of their Snowden stories and tying in the IRS controversy for good measure:

This abuse of the Patriot Act must end

There’s something darkly amusing about Sensenbrenner using the left-leaning UK Guardian to re-position himself with his base. It works since they’re now getting sizable RightWing traffic as the right revels in the leaks.

What a hypocritical jackass. Nice try Jim.

406 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:00:07pm

One more time…

407 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:00:20pm

Eureka!

408 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:00:25pm

“…To effect his plan, Snowden asked for a guarantee that The Washington Post would publish — within 72 hours — the full text of a PowerPoint presentation describing PRISM, a top-secret surveillance program that gathered intelligence from Microsoft, Facebook, Google and other Silicon Valley giants. He also asked that The Post publish online a cryptographic key that he could use to prove to a foreign embassy that he was the document’s source.”
washingtonpost.com

I wonder why the rush.

409 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:02:00pm

re: #408 jaunte

And then WaPo rushed their half-ready story out in response to the Guardian publishing.

410 calochortus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:04:51pm

re: #408 jaunte

I wonder why the rush.

To get it out before Obama met with Xi?

411 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:07:30pm

re: #365 Velvet Elvis

I’m drinking and having a really hard time not trolling in this DKOS diary:

dailykos.com

It deserves trolling.

412 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:07:36pm
“…Mr. Xi will arrive in California from Mexico after a three-country visit to Latin America, while Mr. Obama was planning to be in California for two Democratic fund-raisers.

There are limits to the coziness. Mr. Xi will not stay on the estate but at a nearby Hyatt hotel — a reflection of Chinese concerns about eavesdropping, according to a person familiar with the planning.”
nytimes.com

413 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:08:02pm
414 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:08:02pm

re: #407 Charles Johnson

Eureka!

ELECTROLUX!

415 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:09:51pm

re: #403 abolitionist

Pictures don’t even help me understand that term:
google.com

I think the emo part is short for emotional.

meaning no thought or reason, just FEELINGs.

416 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:11:56pm

re: #415 FemNaziBitch

emo+progressive ?

417 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:12:41pm

re: #408 jaunte

I wonder why the rush.

Little time to give the proper authorities a call and ask if publishing this story would endanger national security.

418 Gus  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:13:31pm

The GOP will take the Senate in 2014 and Obama will be a lame duck after that. GOP taking over the house is a given. But yeah, Kumbaya.

419 jaunte  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:13:33pm

re: #417 Targetpractice

“Hurry before your editorial judgment kicks in!”

420 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:14:07pm

re: #416 abolitionist

emo+progressive ?

fancy fonts? Pfft!

I don’t know -

An Emoprog, a Barking Moonbat and a Ranting Wingnut walk into a bar …

421 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:14:40pm

re: #419 jaunte

“Hurry before your editorial judgment kicks in!”

I don’t know??? Does responsible journalism require the 24 hour rule?

422 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:14:47pm

re: #388 FemNaziBitch

cute or not-cute?

Sooooooo cute!!

423 Lidane  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:15:19pm

re: #408 jaunte

I wonder why the rush.

Pending book deal?

424 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:16:54pm

re: #419 jaunte

“Hurry before your editorial judgment kicks in!”

I could be wrong, but such stories usually get a response from the Feds along the lines of “Hold publication to give us time to assess the possible damage and formulate a response.” Which is what makes me suspect that Snowden knew he was selling bogus goods, because when presented with such, the folks connected would tell WaPo that they were being played for saps.

425 simoom  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:17:11pm

re: #418 Gus

You may be right, but it was already going to be a tough slog based on retirements, which incumbents were up in competitive races, the history of second term off year elections and the general failure of Dems to turn out in non-presidential elections. None of that will discourage me from voting though.

426 engineer cat  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:23:05pm

even tho the plot twists are too bloody and depressing, Game of Presidents continues to fascinate with its story of power mad, incompetent republicans manipulated by evil maesters corporations. it repeatedly dashes our hopes as just when we think we are about to be rescued by a democrat in shining armor, our hopes are dashed yet again when they have their testacles seared off by angry dragons corporations

427 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:24:11pm

re: #420 FemNaziBitch

An Emoprog, a Barking Moonbat and a Ranting Wingnut walk into a bar …

What did he say? :-)

428 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:24:28pm

re: #408 jaunte

I wonder why the rush.

He wanted the key published and his identity as a leaker / whistleblower indisputably established so that his application for asylum in Iceland could go through. I’m sure he’s eager to know whether his long term future involves jail or freedom. It’s still not a given that Iceland would even grant asylum to someone like him though. I’m thinking of past examples like Bobby Fischer and realize that the Icelandic government felt that they owed Fischer a specific debt for having helped put Reykjavik on the national stage. Also, Snowden isn’t a journalist and did explicitly violate his security clearance, whereas the UN economic boycott and executive order that Fischer violated wasn’t nearly as serious in the grand scheme of things.

429 Targetpractice  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:25:39pm

re: #427 Joanne

What did he say? :-)

The barkeep says “Hi, Mr. Beck.”

430 Joanne  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:28:28pm

re: #429 Targetpractice

The barkeep says “Hi, Mr. Beck.”

Ba dum dum!

431 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 9:30:27pm

re: #239 Kragar

Found Snowden.

Image: akiva.jpg

Gah! The sad thing is if you change the eye color that could practically be me!

432 funky chicken  Sun, Jun 9, 2013 11:00:52pm

re: #189 Vicious Babushka

Someone please explain how a 23-year-old kid could have a post as a “distinguished intelligence career officer” in Geneva. What, did he start his career at 12? A Dougie Howser?

And have a GS-14 to GS-15 level salary at age 29 without a degree? Not. possible.

433 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 4:47:46am

re: #432 funky chicken

And have a GS-14 to GS-15 level salary at age 29 without a degree? Not. possible.

You’re low on the salary scale. $200,000 is SES pay, cabinet undersecretaries.


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