The Atlantic: Edward Snowden Shouldn’t Have Gone to Hong Kong

At best, ill-informed
World • Views: 20,856

On Twitter, the fans of Greenwald have actually been trying to defend Hong Kong as a wonderful bastion of free speech; I’ve even seen some of them arguing that Hong Kong has nothing to do with China at all.

This, my friends, is known as “bullshit.”

The Atantic’s Matt Schiavenza lays out some of the reasons why: Edward Snowden Shouldn’t Have Gone to Hong Kong.

These possibilities aside, it’s become increasingly clear that Snowden’s decision to go to Hong Kong was a serious miscalculation. The idiosyncratic territory may in some ways be a libertarian paradise of free speech, robust media, and low taxes, but is in no way independent of China. If Snowden’s ultimate goal were to damage the United States government as much as possible, then going to a Chinese territory would make some sense. But this obviously isn’t what he wanted; in The Guardian interview, Snowden disagreed with Glenn Greenwald’s characterization of China as an “enemy” of the United States by stressing the healthy trade relationship between the two countries. Aiding China — whose record of state surveillance and abrogation of civil liberties is inarguably worse than the United States — would go against the entire moral foundation of Snowden’s decision to leak the NSA secrets.

James Fallows has another piece expanding on these points: Edward Snowden in Hong Kong.

This is just one part of Snowden’s story that does not ring true.

Jump to bottom

177 comments
1 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:15:18am

Snowden is a criminal and a traitor, and should be treated as such.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:15:21am

Snowed in in Hong Kong?

3 erik_t  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:16:59am

I don’t know what you’re talking about. I am a member of the Derperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Hong Kong…

You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take him away!

4 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:17:26am

Report: Snowden Was Immediately Identified As Leading Suspect After First NSA Disclosure

Citing “intelligence sources,” the report indicated that the Associate Directorate for Security and Counterintelligence — also known as “the Q group” — immediately recognized Snowden’s disappearance when he departed for Hong Kong in late-May. When The Guardian first published a top secret court order that requires Verizon to hand over phone records of millions of its customers, the 29-year-old NSA contractor was pegged as the likely source of the leak.

5 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:18:09am

Meanwhile, I have a serious case of gadget lust. The new Mac Pro looks like my dream computer.

6 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:18:41am

re: #3 erik_t

I don’t know what you’re talking about. I am a member of the Derperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Hong Kong…

You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take him away!

“Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine.”

7 freetoken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:19:04am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

The top is a handle, so you can take it with you.

Supposedly one eighth the volume of the old beasts too.

8 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:19:10am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, I have a serious case of gadget lust. The new Mac Pro looks like my dream computer.

A dehumidifier?
/

9 freetoken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:19:28am

re: #8 Kragar

Air cleaner?

10 simoom  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:21:00am

So we’ve all seen Greenwald’s tweet that he and documentary filmmaker Laura Portias have been working with Snowden since February. Well check this out. Greenwald, over a year ago, when he blogged for Salon, writing about Laura Portias’ next project:

salon.com

SUNDAY, APR 8, 2012 06:37 AM EDT

As Poitras described it to me, this next film will examine the way in which The War on Terror has been imported onto U.S. soil, with a focus on the U.S. Government’s increasing powers of domestic surveillance, its expanding covert domestic NSA activities (including construction of a massive new NSA facility in Bluffdale, Utah), its attacks on whistleblowers, and the movement to foster government transparency and to safeguard Internet anonymity.

11 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:21:21am
12 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:21:59am

(Just posted this at the tail end of the previous thread)


Erm…

So Greenwald re-asserts bragging rights to the story over WaPo by saying he’d been in contact with Snowden even before Snowden got the job that gave him access to the stuff he leaked?

I’m having trouble counting all the ways that doesn’t make any sense.

13 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:22:32am

I want a PC like this one:

Image: wallls.com_14599.jpg

14 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:22:52am

re: #10 simoom

re: #11 Gus

Mr. Greenwald has some ‘splainin to do.

*said in my best Ricky Ricardo voice*

15 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:23:36am

re: #13 Kragar

I want a PC like this one:

Image: wallls.com_14599.jpg

Crikey! Is it powered by coal and steam?

16 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:24:12am

Every time I hear Greenwald make another pronouncement, I can hear Bon Jovi playing “Blaze of Glory” in the background.

17 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:24:33am

re: #11 Gus

The Fuckup and the Snowderp.

18 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:24:54am

re: #13 Kragar

I want a PC like this one:

Image: wallls.com_14599.jpg

I want a laptop like this:

Image: steampunklaptop2.jpg
Image: steampunkLaptop1.jpg

19 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:25:12am

re: #17 Decatur Deb

The Fuckup and the Snowderp.

Ed the Special Snowflake.

20 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:25:42am

re: #11 Gus

So Greenwald is saying he entered into a criminal conspiracy to obtain US intelligence data illegally?

21 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:26:02am

re: #13 Kragar

Oh hell yes! I want more links!

22 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:26:25am

Hong Kong makes sense if Snowden thought he had intelligence regarding procedures, technology, etc. to sell to a good trading partner.

23 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:27:12am

re: #21 stabby

Oh hell yes! I want more links!

google.com

Image: ain30-desktop.jpg

24 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:27:20am

re: #20 Kragar

So Greenwald is saying he entered into a criminal conspiracy to obtain US intelligence data illegally?

It’s a question of who came to who and who came up with the idea of Snowden seeking employment at Booz Allen.

25 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:27:52am

re: #10 simoom

So we’ve all seen the above Greenwald’s tweet about he and documentary filmmaker Laura Portias have been working with Snowden since February. Well check this out. Greenwald, over a year ago, when he blogged for Salon, writing about Laura Portias’ next project:

salon.com

Hmm… from a Great Orange Satan post about Poitras done in the wake of that Salon article:

I am particularly disconcerted as Poitras has filmed three of my National Security Agency (NSA) clients and no doubt countless other courageous whistleblowers. My clients have already been put through a years-long retaliatory criminal investigation, and should not be forced to endure further persecution because they are brave enough to continue to speak out against NSA’s illegal actions.

26 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:28:12am

re: #20 Kragar

So Greenwald is saying he entered into a criminal conspiracy to obtain US intelligence data illegally?

Sorta sounds like it.

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:29:02am

re: #24 Targetpractice

It’s a question of who came to who and who came up with the idea of Snowden seeking employment at Booz Allen.

Are you sure they’re not says “Buuuuurns and Allen”?
;)

I saw some blurp that their holding corporation stock already took a 4% value hit today.

28 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:29:04am

re: #24 Targetpractice

It’s a question of who came to who and who came up with the idea of Snowden seeking employment at Booz Allen.

If Greenwald started working with the guy ahead of time for the purpose of obtaining the data, it doesn’t matter who thought it up, they would be co-conspirators.

29 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:29:38am

re: #20 Kragar

So Greenwald is saying he entered into a criminal conspiracy to obtain US intelligence data illegally?

It appears that way on the surface. Maybe we’ll find out during the trial?

30 piratedan  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:30:20am

so if GG has had this as an agenda item for over a year, as he states in his comment about working with the filmmaker, then Snowden is simply the guy who got the part to play as the maguffin in this whole sordid scenario….so when those dots are connected that GG was actively looking for someone to leak for him and then use it as an expose to further his own agenda, we’re all supposed to sit back and place our hands on our collective chins and say whocouldanode?

31 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:30:33am

re: #29 Gus

It appears that way on the surface. Maybe we’ll find out during the trial?

I’m starting to wonder if Greenwald is trying to deliberately provoke a co-conspirator charge…

32 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:30:48am

re: #29 Gus

If none of what Snowden says is actually true, then what law has he broken?

33 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:31:14am

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

34 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:31:33am

re: #32 stabby

If none of what Snowden says is actually true, then what law has he broken?

He still released classified documents. Doesn’t matter if his interpretation of the docs is incorrect or not.

35 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:31:55am

He’s perteckting teh Constition!

36 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:32:22am

re: #34 AntonSirius

What if the docs are just fake?

37 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:32:48am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

How do you reason with a teabagger?

38 erik_t  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:33:38am

re: #37 Kragar

How do you reason with a teabagger?

Find the nearest kindergarten teacher.

39 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:33:43am

re: #36 stabby

What if the docs are just fake?

What if we’re all just characters in the dreams of an autistic child?

40 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:34:13am

re: #39 AntonSirius

What if we’re all just characters in the dreams of an autistic child?

What if we’re all already dead?

41 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:34:19am

re: #39 AntonSirius

I thought it was the white king’s dream.

42 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:34:21am
43 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:34:36am

re: #39 AntonSirius

What if we’re all just characters in the dreams of an autistic child?

Oh sure, go all St. Elsewhere on us.

44 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:34:59am

re: #40 Vicious Babushka

What if we’re all already dead?

What if the cake is a lie?

45 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:35:28am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

Threatening with people with guns in a “humorous” manner is just a charming way to escercise First and Second Amendment rights simultaneously.

/

46 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:35:37am

re: #28 Kragar

If Greenwald started working with the guy ahead of time for the purpose of obtaining the data, it doesn’t matter who thought it up, they would be co-conspirators.

Pretty sure that’s what he’s really hoping for. Make himself a martyr to the cause while telling folks that the whole thing was Snowden’s idea and he just went along for the ride.

47 piratedan  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:35:37am

re: #39 AntonSirius

someone notify John Cleese, apparently Stabby has escaped from The Argument Sketch

48 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:36:04am

re: #40 Vicious Babushka

What if we’re all already dead?

Then LGF is one of the nicer circles of Hell.

49 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:36:04am

re: #40 Vicious Babushka

What if we’re all already dead?

Does that mean we’re still stuck on that damned island?

//

50 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:04am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

I can say only one thing to this picture.

Try it, asshole.

51 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:22am

re: #24 Targetpractice

It’s a question of who came to who and who came up with the idea of Snowden seeking employment at Booz Allen.

Who’s on first, what’s on second and I don’t know is on third.

52 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:28am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

Flag media.

53 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:33am

re: #13 Kragar

I want a PC like this one:

Image: wallls.com_14599.jpg

steampunk???

54 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:34am

re: #43 Kragar

Oh sure, go all St. Elsewhere on us.

Maybe my favorite bit of geekery of all time.

55 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:38am

re: #45 Sol Berdinowitz

Threatening with people with guns in a “humorous” manner is just a charming way to escercise First and Second Amendment rights simultaneously.

/

How do you wave at an Evangelical?

Image: tumblr_m4xne1e3jc1qj3ir1.gif

56 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:48am

re: #47 piratedan

Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I’m not going to just stand…

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:37:56am

re: #38 erik_t

Find the nearest kindergarten teacher.

And make sure the teacher is armed…

58 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:38:31am

re: #56 stabby

Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I’m not going to just stand…

Toffee nosed malodorous pervert.

59 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:38:34am

re: #56 stabby

Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I’m not going to just stand…

Could we interest you in some abuse?

60 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:38:50am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

that is disturbing

61 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:39:55am

I told you once.

62 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:40:00am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

63 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:40:50am

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

Seems like a reasonable chap.
/

64 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:41:22am

re: #62 AntonSirius

It would be a glorious parody account.

But hate is so thick on the ground that this is pretty normal.

65 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:41:49am

re: #63 Kragar

Seems like a reasonable chap.
/

He’s experienced disappointments.

66 erik_t  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:41:59am

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

Spelled ‘fibre’? Yes, probably.

67 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:42:28am

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

Usually you can tell a parody account by who its following and its followers are. This one is followed/following the hardest of the hardcore wingnuts.

68 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:42:40am

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

Hail Satin!

//

69 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:42:55am

re: #33 Vicious Babushka

CREEPY FUNDIE WINGNUT FAIL

reading through his very brief timeline, he’s begging for time in the gulag…

70 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:42:56am
71 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:43:12am

This is a parody account:

72 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:43:34am

re: #66 erik_t

British or Canadian spelling?

Like the Brit/Canadian word “centre” which has a different meaning from “center”.

“Centre for the arts,” for instance

73 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:43:37am

re: #70 Kragar

‘Unskewed Polls’ Founder: ‘I Was Only Wrong’ Because I Didn’t Consider Voter Fraud

Yeah, that must be it.

“I was only off by 5 million votes! Silver only got it right because he’s gay!”

//

74 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:43:42am

Watching the Apple love-fest on my neighbor’s computer. They have a phone that can browse the internet! At what point does this speaker realize that he’s showing people shit that’s been around for years?

75 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:44:28am

re: #62 AntonSirius

Ah, one of the leading lights of Twitter, I see. No doubt a good, fine Christian and American Patriot.

//

76 krypto  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:44:45am

All this just to stop the US government from having who called who in a database, not even actually listening to the calls?

Couldn’t Snowdon have found an issue that would actually affect people’s lives in some positive way? Something like ending the remnants of slavery, even trying to see that Americans can get the healthcare they need, or something like reducing human rights abuses in places like — uh —- China?

77 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:44:54am

re: #37 Kragar

How do you reason with a teabagger?

now i want a bitch-slap-me-batman doll

78 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:45:11am

re: #74 darthstar

Watching the Apple love-fest on my neighbor’s computer. They have a phone that can browse the internet! At what point does this speaker realize that he’s showing people shit that’s been around for years?

That’s been Apple’s basic ad campaign since Jobs died. “Look at what we can do! Isn’t it keen?”

79 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:45:23am

re: #66 erik_t

Spelled ‘fibre’? Yes, probably.

That’s the Canadian spelling. He must be an illegal alien.

80 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:46:07am

re: #76 krypto

All this just to stop the US government from having lists of who called who in a database, not even to actually listen to the calls?

Couldn’t Snowdon have found an issue that would actually affect people’s lives in some positive way? Something like ending the remnants of slavery, even trying to see that Americans can get the healthcare they need, or something like reducing human rights abuses in places like — uh —- China?

Well, maybe Booz-Allen will hire a female analyst in his job for only 70% of what he was making.

81 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:46:35am

And she would be happy to have it!

82 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:47:29am

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

Can you get geodata on the tweet? I don’t know how that works but some tweets have it.

Right, in my imagination, those are being posted by a giggling girl in Wales.

83 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:47:30am

Snowden Faces Decades In Jail If U.S. Can Extradite Him From Hong Kong

The man who gave classified documents to reporters, making public two sweeping U.S. surveillance programs and touching off a national debate on privacy versus security, has revealed his own identity. He risked decades in jail for the disclosures — if the U.S. can extradite him from Hong Kong where he has taken refuge.

Edward Snowden, 29, who says he worked as a contractor at the National Security Agency and the CIA, allowed The Guardian and The Washington Post newspapers to reveal his identity Sunday.

Both papers have published a series of top-secret documents outlining two NSA surveillance programs. One gathers hundreds of millions of U.S. phone records while searching for possible links to known terrorist targets abroad, and the second allows the government to tap into nine U.S. Internet companies to gather all Internet usage to detect suspicious behavior that begins overseas.

84 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:47:43am

re: #68 Targetpractice

Hail Satin!

//

I work with someone named Satin. USMC vet.

85 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:47:52am

re: #78 AntonSirius

That’s been Apple’s basic ad campaign since Jobs died. “Look at what we can do! Isn’t it keen?”

It’s a non-stop demonstration of pictures…ooh, and now with more twitter!

86 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:48:24am

re: #22 Feline Fearless Leader

Hong Kong makes sense if Snowden thought he had intelligence regarding procedures, technology, etc. to sell to a good trading partner.

Most Favored Nation!

87 erik_t  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:48:25am

re: #79 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

That’s the Canadian spelling. He must be an illegal alien.

Or Ted Cruz.

88 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:48:42am

re: #85 darthstar

It’s a non-stop demonstration of pictures…ooh, and now with more twitter!

“Let me get directions to their nearest store on AppleMaps…”

89 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:50:15am

re: #88 Kragar

“Let me get directions to their nearest store on AppleMaps…”

It would be better if the presenter just said, “Siri, tell these people about all the new features.” and walked off the stage.

90 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:50:37am
I’ve even seen some of them arguing that Hong Kong has nothing to do with China at all.

This, my friends, is known as “bullshit.”

Let’s be charitable here. They were all so freaked out by the approach of Y2K that they didn’t notice the whole lease expiration thingy.

91 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:51:18am

Fox News host: Zimmerman ‘has already been punished’ with weight gain

During Monday’s coverage of jury selection, Jarrett and Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle observed that Zimmerman had gained weight since his arrest in April 2012.

“He does look like a different guy,” Jarrett remarked. “It looks like he’s put on a hundred pounds. Look, he has been in hiding and he fears for his life, and there have been all kinds of death threats. And, you know, he can’t go anywhere, can’t get out and get exercise.”

“Probably suffering from stress and anxiety,” Guilfoyle added.

“You eat when you’re under stress and pressure and stuff like that,” Jarrett agreed. “So, you know, he’s already been punished to some extent. We’ll wait and see whether a Jury punishes him further.”

“This is an individual that was trying to do some civic duty by being on the community watch,” Guilfoyle opined. “That was the purpose of why he was there that night.”

“Sure, let’s not forget there’s a reason for a community watch,” Jarrett replied. “Because that’s a community with a need for a watch. Because they’d had problems like this in the past.”

They seem to be forgetting that Zimmerman was kicked off the watch because he was a nutter.

92 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:52:36am

re: #91 Kragar

Fox News host: Zimmerman ‘has already been punished’ with weight gain

They seem to be forgetting that Zimmerman was kicked off the watch because he was a nutter.

Well, there are some people who believe that it’s better to be dead than fat. //

93 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:53:09am

re: #91 Kragar

I wonder why Faux would be defending, time and time again it appears, the shooter in this case. I can’t figure it out. Must be something.

//

94 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:53:12am

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

the “mass graves” part would tend to clue one in to the possibility that this guy has problems w civilized society that go a little beyond policy disagreements…

95 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:54:14am

re: #93 Bulworth

I wonder why Faux would be defending, time and time again it appears, the killer in this case. I can’t figure it out. Must be something.

//

Fxd

96 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:54:32am

re: #93 Bulworth

I wonder why Faux would be defending, time and time again it appears, the shooter in this case. I can’t figure it out. Must be something.

//

STAND YOUR GROUND laws against an African-American.

IT’S the NRA and WHACKO’s RACISM.

97 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:55:00am

re: #94 engineer cat

the “mass graves” part would tend to clue one in to the possibility that this guy has problems w civilized society that go a little beyond policy disagreements…

There ought to be some program for capturing the online ravings of nutcases.

98 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:55:04am

re: #91 Kragar

Is this the Fair or the Balanced coverage of the trial and defendent? I can’t tell.

//

99 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:55:46am


Each song preceded by 45-minute Tim Cook presentation
Option to play a different song in each earbud
Tons of Floyd
A daily morning zoo show with Siri and her rowdy friends
Ability to lower volume is disabled whenever a really good song is playing
Is eager to please
Audiobook chapters from Steve Jobs’ biography constantly sprinkled in throughout users’ listening sessions
Access to millions of songs readily available on Pandora, Spotify, and Google Play
100 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:56:35am

re: #98 Bulworth

Is this the Fair or the Balanced coverage of the trial and defendent? I can’t tell.

//

It’s the hoodie targets that some asshole produced.

How could anyone find it humorous?

101 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:57:48am

re: #99 darthstar

How in hell is The Onion going to stay ahead of the Snowden weirdness?

102 abolitionist  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:58:02am

re: #97 Decatur Deb

There ought to be some program for capturing the online ravings of nutcases.

PRISM?
/

103 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 11:58:52am

re: #102 abolitionist

PRISM?
/

Nah. This release only captures metadata.

104 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:00:39pm
105 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:00:40pm

re: #32 stabby

If none of what Snowden says is actually true, then what law has he broken?

It’s pretty clear he broke some laws. How he managed to get himself into a position to read/dowload this information is the most interesting question for me. Well, that and how the hell he got that job at BAH.

106 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:01:31pm

I’m glad to see that Twitter fixed whatever the issue was that was causing a plain text version of embedded tweets to show up under the embed.

I was going to investigate it today - now I know it wasn’t an LGF problem.

107 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:01:33pm
108 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:03:25pm

re: #105 funky chicken

It’s pretty clear he broke some laws. How he managed to get himself into a position to read/dowload this information is the most interesting question for me. Well, that and how the hell he got that job at BAH.

They could have hired two female analysts for the same price.

109 Lidane  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:03:38pm

re: #91 Kragar

Fox News host: Zimmerman ‘has already been punished’ with weight gain.

Yeah, because getting fat while waiting for your murder trial is awful.

I’m sure Trayvon Martin’s family feels bad for him.

110 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:05:33pm

Santa Monica shooter was Christian. Dad from Lebanon. Derp.

111 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:06:17pm

re: #109 Lidane

So, say, eating a bucket of chocolate ice cream a day for months is sufficient punishment for murder?

112 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:06:46pm

re: #110 Gus

Santa Monica shooter was Christian. Dad from Lebanon. Derp.

LIES!! MUSLIMZ ARE CHASING ALL TEH CHRISTIANS FROM LEBANON!!11 BRIDGIT GABRIEL SEDD!!!1

113 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:07:05pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

They could have hired two female analysts for the same price.

Or one supremely qualified retiring O-5 of either sex.

114 Lidane  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:09:07pm

re: #111 stabby

Yes, because I’ve been completely sympathetic to Zimmerman the entire time.

Here, I’ll even add a few sarc tags for your benefit.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

115 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:09:51pm
116 stabby  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:09:59pm

re: #114 Lidane

I wasn’t assuming that you were serious.

117 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:10:16pm

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

They could have hired two female analysts for the same price.

Or O-6. O-6 retired pay, TriCare for Life, and 100K a year will support quite a pleasant lifestyle in HI, or just about anywhere. I really do hope the HR department gets a nice colonoscopy, because at 7.5% reported unemployment (real value is like double that, yes?) somebody royally fucked up.

118 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:11:14pm

re: #114 Lidane

Yes, because I’ve been completely sympathetic to Zimmerman the entire time.

Here, I’ll even add a few sarc tags for your benefit.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Warning

119 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:12:00pm

re: #110 Gus

Santa Monica shooter was Christian. Dad from Lebanon. Derp.

Medium Brown + East of the Bosphorous = Muslim

It is known.

Derp.

120 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:13:41pm

Congressman Thune: We didn’t know what we told the NSA to do

“I think the times that this program’s been reauthorized, much of this operates in levels where there are not that many people — members of Congress — who are fully engaged in what’s going on. You know, the intelligence committees obviously are involved and homeland security, I think, to some degree but most members of Congress are given a piece of legislation to vote on and I don’t believe that most members of Congress, perhaps, going into this were fully aware of how broad this program was and so yes, you vote because you’re obviously concerned about protecting the country,” Thune said. “You know, many of these tools have been used and have been effective in preventing terrorist attacks but I think now as more of these details are starting to come out, there are going to be additional questions raised and asked and hopefully some answers given that will give us a better understanding, not only of how this program works today, but how we might proceed with it in the future and the way that protects individual privacy but also gives us the necessary tools that we need to fight terrorism and to protect Americans.”

121 simoom  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:14:21pm

Assange Interview on ABC in Austrailia’s Lateline:

abc.net.au

EMMA ALBERICI: Let’s talk about the 29-year-old former CIA staffer Edward Snowden. It’s now been revealed that he was responsible for those leaks to The Guardian and The Washington Post revealing the way the US National Security Agency gains information from internet companies - Google, Facebook, as well as US telecoms. Have you had any communication with him?

JULIAN ASSANGE: We have had indirect communication with his people.

EMMA ALBERICI: What do you mean?

JULIAN ASSANGE: I don’t think it’s appropriate at this time that I go into further details

EMMA ALBERICI: Finally, Julian Assange, Jemima Khan, who was once a keen supporter of yours, has recently lamented that you, in her words, expect supporters to follow unquestioningly in blinkered, cultish devotion, claiming that you had become more like an Australian L. Ron Hubbard. What do you make of that?

JULIAN ASSANGE: Well, come on. I mean, really? Jemima Khan? Seriously? This concerns a Hollywood documentary made by Universal for $2.5 million. They wanted WikiLeaks to partake in that, but we thought they were going to produce a pretty sleazy result, so we said no. In fact, the documentary team that we are working with is the same one that is now holed up in Hong Kong with Snowden. That’s Laura Poitras. Anyway, so because we went with Laura Poitras and we didn’t go with Alex Gibney in the US, the result was Gibney then went to Jemima Khan and recruited her to try and bring us in to that documentary process over two years ago, giving her access and an executive credit in the film. But we couldn’t tolerate the film. So we attacked the film, but she was part of the film, so as a result, she attacked back. I mean, it’s really just - it’s nothing.

WTF are Poitras & Greenwald up to?

122 Lidane  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:16:18pm

re: #120 Kragar

Congressman Thune: We didn’t know what we told the NSA to do

This is why reading legislation before you vote on it is a Good Idea.

Idiots.

123 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:16:52pm

re: #120 Kragar

Senatorial Word Salad.

124 simoom  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:20:28pm

re: #121 simoom

JULIAN ASSANGE: We have had indirect communication with his people.

Who are Snowden’s “people” btw? Greenwald & Poitras?

125 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:20:43pm

re: #122 Lidane

Yeah, but do you know how many pages are in that legislation?!!!?!???

///

126 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:20:54pm

Where on earth could they have found better qualified candidates? Here:

pacom.mil

USPACOM is one of six geographic Unified Combatant Commands of the United States Armed Forces. Commander, U.S. Pacific Command (CDRUSPACOM) is the senior U.S. military authority in the Pacific Command AOR. CDRUSPACOM reports to the President of the United States through the Secretary of Defense and is supported by four component commands: U.S. Pacific Fleet, U.S. Pacific Air Forces, U.S. Army Pacific, and U.S. Marine Forces, Pacific. These commands are headquartered in Hawai’i and have forces stationed and deployed throughout the region.

Hell, retiring enlisted folks would be way more qualified than a twerp with a GED. They would have actually appreciated the opportunity too.

127 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:21:00pm

re: #120 Kragar

Congressman Thune: We didn’t know what we told the NSA to do

“We’re not malicious, we’re just incompetent and illiterate, honest!”

This is the sound of a head banging a desk, forever.

128 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:22:02pm

re: #127 The Ghost of a Flea

“We’re not malicious, we’re just incompetent and illiterate, honest!”

This is the sound of a head banging a desk, forever.

Image: tumblr_lovztzBbbb1qai9up.gif

129 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:22:37pm

re: #124 simoom

Who are Snowden’s “people” btw? Greenwald & Poitras?

The plot thickens.

130 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:23:27pm

re: #128 Dr Lizardo

Accurate, except I don’t have what appears to be octopi attached to the sides of my head.

131 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:23:28pm

re: #127 The Ghost of a Flea

Image: Congress.jpg

132 iossarian  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:25:29pm

Thune’s admission is perfectly natural - for years, there has been a portion of the electorate that has interpreted any hesitation to rubber-stamp “patriotic” legislation as treason.

So naturally, a good portion of congresspeople did just that.

Now that it turns out that, in fact, rubber-stamping that legislation is going to be retroactively interpreted as treason, there’s some fancy footwork to be performed.

I don’t exonerate people like Thune because they’re cynical/stupid/amoral. But the driver for this kind of behavior is the stupidity of that core Republican electorate.

133 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:26:58pm

re: #131 Kragar

I suspect a fair portion of the idiots voting on these laws can’t even understand them as written, don’t bother to read them and rely on lobbyists/staffers to tell them what to vote for or against on any given day.

I wish I could run for office and win, I swear, I’m “just” a high school grad who reads a lot and I could probably do better than some of these nitwits.

134 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:27:07pm

re: #124 simoom

Julian’s imaginary friends.

135 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:27:49pm

re: #121 simoom

Assange Interview on ABC in Austrailia’s Lateline:

abc.net.au

…and we didn’t go with Alex Gibney in the US…

Assange is a moron. Gibney’s in the conversation for one of the greatest documentarians working today.

Of course, Gibney also probably wouldn’t guarantee him a flattering portrait…

136 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:27:58pm
137 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:28:45pm

re: #132 iossarian

Yup its complete and utter horseshit.

“We support our troops!”

“OK, so we’re going to pass some laws to aid their families to make sure they get proper healthcare, education, and financial aid while the service members are overseas.”

“THAT’S WELFARE!”

These people live in a magical fantasy world almost completely divorced from reality.

138 abolitionist  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:29:21pm

re: #124 simoom

Who are Snowden’s “people” btw? Greenwald & Poitras?

[edit] For the HK interview of Snowden, dated Jun 6, the credits indicated
A Film by Laura Poitras
Interview by Glenn Greenwald
Co-produced by Ewen Macaskill

139 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:29:30pm

re: #121 simoom

It would be really cool if you’d make a Page with these links. It’s possibly very pertinent information…

140 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:33:14pm

re: #139 Charles Johnson

It would be really cool if you’d make a Page with these links. It’s possibly very pertinent information…

If I had time I was thinking of doing a ‘story so far’ Page on everything that’s come out about Snowden, but I won’t for at least a couple of days… hint hint.

141 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:34:03pm

You know, I really applaud the sentiment. Yet is it sadly and dangerously misguided.

142 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:35:43pm

re: #141 FemNaziBitch

You know, I really applaud the sentiment. Yet is it sadly and dangerously misguided.

Because more access to guns makes people safer.

143 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:37:11pm

re: #141 FemNaziBitch

You know, I really applaud the sentiment. Yet is it sadly and dangerously misguided.

I don’t know if they’ve considered the ramifications of arming up women with shotguns and then coming at them with ultrasound wands…

144 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:37:44pm
145 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:37:55pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

Hail Satin!

//

You must be a Muslin!

146 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:39:20pm

re: #145 Eventual Carrion

You must be a Muslin!

We don’t cotton to that kind of talk around here.

147 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:39:40pm

re: #142 Kragar

Because more access to guns makes people safer.

Well, if one is trained and spends a lot of time at the range practicing …perhaps. But those already vunerable (such as victims of domestic violence) are specifically horrible candidates for firearm ownership, The abuser has conditioned them to be.

148 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:40:02pm

re: #62 AntonSirius

I really wish I could believe this is a parody account.

He started posting on the account about five days ago, and almost every one of them is advocating violence toward anyone who doesn’t fit into his far-right fantasy world.

I recommend that anyone with a Twitter account here report him for abuse - not the “spam” report button, but the one in the security/privacy section:

support.twitter.com

149 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:40:18pm

re: #143 Charles Johnson

I don’t know if they’ve considered the ramifications of arming up women with shotguns and then coming at them with ultrasound wands…

Don’t get me started …

*SCREAM*

150 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:40:38pm

re: #137 Kragar

Yup its complete and utter horseshit.

“We support our troops!”

“OK, so we’re going to pass some laws to aid their families to make sure they get proper healthcare, education, and financial aid while the service members are overseas.”

“THAT’S WELFARE!”

These people live in a magical fantasy world almost completely divorced from reality.

…and then an armchair commando will you tell that psychological damage and PTSD are for pussies.

151 iossarian  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:40:41pm

re: #146 Kragar

We don’t cotton to that kind of talk around here.

I blame teh jutes.

152 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:41:43pm

Lunchtime walk from my office to Coit Tower and back. Profile of the walk looks a lot like the tower itself.

Image: 964895_10151665776788024_933428363_o.jpg
Image: 967246_10151665761653024_126217175_o.jpg
Image: 964988_10151665762013024_1712205323_o.jpg

153 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:42:49pm

re: #151 iossarian

I blame teh jutes.

Its an argument we’ll need to canvass carefully.

154 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:43:11pm

re: #152 darthstar

Lunchtime walk from my office to Coit Tower and back. Profile of the walk looks a lot like the tower itself.

Image: 964895_10151665776788024_933428363_o.jpg
Image: 967246_10151665761653024_126217175_o.jpg
Image: 964988_10151665762013024_1712205323_o.jpg

It’s all very phallic.

155 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:43:13pm
156 darthstar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:43:44pm

re: #154 Gus

It’s all very phallic.

Well, it is designed to look like a fire hose nozzle.

157 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:44:19pm

re: #156 darthstar

Well, it is designed to look like a fire hose nozzle.

AH!

158 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:44:36pm

re: #152 darthstar

I wanna live where you do. *snifflesob* It’s not for the lack of trying, we keep looking for jobs out that way, can’t find anything that would merit moving from Atlanta to San Francisco. LeSigh…

159 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:44:46pm

re: #156 darthstar

Well, it is designed to look like a fire hose nozzle.

Oh, yeah. Knew that. Wasn’t her husband a fire fighter or something?

160 Kragar  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:45:36pm

re: #156 darthstar

Well, it is designed to look like a fire hose nozzle.

Nozzle you say?

Youtube Video

161 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:45:49pm

It’s so weird to me the things that make men uncomfortable about women’s health issues. The ultra-sound wand is not a big deal. The speculum, now that is a big deal.

162 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:46:00pm

re: #147 FemNaziBitch

Well, if one is trained and spends a lot of time at the range practicing …perhaps. But those already vunerable (such as victims of domestic violence) are specifically horrible candidates for firearm ownership, The abuser has conditioned them to be.

Gun fetishists don’t conceptualize domestic violence that way, just like they imagine rape involves blonde ladies and Central Casting gang members in an alleyway. Violence is always done by The Other Tribe, and there’s never any ambiguity.

Nobody ever manages to tell me what kind of gun would have stopped my dad (and his gun).

163 erik_t  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:46:57pm

re: #159 Gus

Oh, yeah. Knew that. Wasn’t her husband a fire fighter or something?

Go go gadget Wikipedia!

Coit Tower was paid for with money left by Lillie Hitchcock Coit, a wealthy socialite who loved to chase fires in the early days of the city’s history. The tower took five years to construct. Before December 1866, there was no city fire department, and fires in the city, which broke out regularly in the wooden buildings, were extinguished by several volunteer fire companies. Lillie Coit was one of the more eccentric characters in the history of North Beach and Telegraph Hill, smoking cigars and wearing trousers long before it was socially acceptable for women to do so. She was an avid gambler and often dressed like a man in order to gamble in the males-only establishments that dotted North Beach. Coit was reputed to have shaved her head so her wigs would fit better.

Lillie’s fortunes funded the monument four years following her death in 1929. She had a special relationship with the city’s firefighters. At the age of fifteen she witnessed the Knickerbocker Engine Co. No. 5 in response to a fire call up on Telegraph Hill when they were shorthanded, and threw her school books to the ground and pitched in to help, calling out to other bystanders to help get the engine up the hill to the fire, to get the first water onto the blaze. After that Lillie became the Engine Co. mascot and could barely be constrained by her parents from jumping into action at the sound of every fire bell. After this she was frequently riding with the Knickerbocker Engine Co. 5, especially so in street parades and celebrations in which the Engine Co. participated. Through her youth and adulthood Lillie was recognized as an honorary firefighter.

164 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:47:00pm

re: #162 The Ghost of a Flea

Gun fetishists don’t conceptualize domestic violence that way, just like they imagine rape involves blonde ladies and Central Casting gang members in an alleyway. Violence is always done by The Other Tribe, and there’s never any ambiguity.

Nobody ever manages to tell me what kind of gun would have stopped my dad (and his gun).

Yep, the same people who would mock my nic, won’t even begin to read or in any way familiarize themselves with the subject.

165 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:47:55pm

re: #163 erik_t

Go go gadget Wikipedia!

Don’t call us! COITUS!

166 Gus  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:48:46pm

Coit carpet cleaners had some funny saying like that. Can’t find an internet reference.

167 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:49:42pm

re: #163 erik_t

Go go gadget Wikipedia!

a Star Trek Phaser for personal self-defense would be a great start, IMHO.

168 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:49:52pm

re: #123 Bulworth

Senatorial Word Salad.

Boils down to “We trust the appropriate committees to be properly knowledgeable on the subject and concerned enough about the ramifications of the bill to make the correct recommendation.”

Work in a large enough legislative body and most of the lifting is done at the committee level. There just is not enough time and brain available to be competently knowledgeable on all the subjects coming up in legislation. So you decide what to specialize in and try to gain enough general knowledge to know when a snow job is tossed your way.

And that is before all the party politics starts kicking in.

169 simoom  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:55:05pm

re: #139 Charles Johnson

It would be really cool if you’d make a Page with these links. It’s possibly very pertinent information…

To be honest, I find some of the internet vigilante types that orbit Assange and now Snowden / GG to be pretty scary and wouldn’t really want to compile a diary that would be tweeted about and perhaps promoted. Cowardly, I know, but if someone else wants to throw one together, incorporating links or excerpts I’ve quoted, feel free to do so.

170 AntonSirius  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:58:38pm

re: #161 FemNaziBitch

The speculum, now that is a big deal.

Very few things in movies genuinely gross me out. The gynecological tools for mutant women in Cronenberg’s Dead Ringers was one of them.

171 Lidane  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 12:59:26pm

I’m starting to see otherwise smart people that I know calling Snowden a hero for “exposing” the NSA for spying on people. As if that wasn’t goddamn obvious TWELVE YEARS AGO when the Patriot Act passed.

Idiots. WTF.

172 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 1:03:49pm

From the previous thread, Charles mentioned that he was potentially going to report some creepy threatening emails to the police.

I’m sure it varies from city to city, but I’m just curious: are local police departments these days savvy enough to handle threatening email and other on-line threats appropriately? I’ve always assumed that reporting a threatening email to the local cops would result in blank stares, rolled eyes, and perhaps other ocular phenomena; but even if a threat seems really “valid”, no real action would come of it.

I mean, I can’t imagine reporting to Sgt. Stadanko or Deputy Fife that I just got some threatening emails from someone I could only identify as “Sp00ge4Rand82” that included photos of my house and my kids’ school. I wonder how many departments would know (or care) what to do with potentially forged email headers.

173 steve_davis  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 1:16:40pm

re: #36 stabby

What if the docs are just fake?

oh god, that would be funny. “Ladies and Gentlemen of the press, my name is Edward Snowden. Several months ago, in cooperation with federal authorities, I launched a disinformation campaign designed to demonstrate to the American public what a complete bucket of bullshit the U.S. press corps is. I also got to completely punk Glenn Greenwald, which was kind of an added bonus….”

174 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 1:29:09pm

re: #172 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I’d bet they are in Los Angeles.

175 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 1:40:29pm

re: #165 Gus

Don’t call us! COITUS!

Someone had to do it.

176 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 1:40:56pm

re: #174 funky chicken

I’d bet they are in Los Angeles.

NSA will know as soon as they call for a pizza.

177 danarchy  Mon, Jun 10, 2013 2:13:04pm

re: #126 funky chicken

Where on earth could they have found better qualified candidates? Here:

pacom.mil

Hell, retiring enlisted folks would be way more qualified than a twerp with a GED. They would have actually appreciated the opportunity too.

I thought he was enlisted until he broke both legs in a training accident? At least that’s what wiki said.


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