Greenwald Asks: “Are There Any Meaningful Differences Between Ellsberg and Snowden?”

An illegal, unwinnable war killing hundreds of thousands of people vs. archived phone records
Politics • Views: 29,293

This afternoon the always loquacious Glenn Greenwald took to the Twitters to make one of those self-aggrandizing, absurdly overblown comparisons for which he’s well-known:

Since Greenwald has blocked me on Twitter, I can’t directly respond, so I posted a series of tweets instead:

Jump to bottom

605 comments
1 Mike Lamb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:19:15pm

Yes.

This has been your daily helping of SATSQ.

2 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:20:04pm
Are there any meaningful differences between the actions of Dan Ellsberg Benedict Arnold & Edward Snowden?

—Me

3 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:23:52pm

Ellsberg was straightforward in his actions. He released the Pentagon papers over a period of days. Then when into hiding. It was released to the American owned NY Times and not the UK owned Guardian. He didn’t have an “agent” like Greenwald make veiled threats, accusations and running commentary on all the major networks during that time. It was cut and dry and not with the silliness that comes along with Greenwald.

4 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:24:48pm
5 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:25:17pm

Are there any meaningful differences between Glen Greenwald and Scott Walker? Has anyone ever seen a picture of them together? Could be twins.

6 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:26:32pm

re: #3 Gus

Ellsberg was straightforward in his actions. He released the Pentagon papers over a period of days. Then when into hiding. It was released to the American owned NY Times and not the UK owned Guardian. He didn’t have an “agent” like Greenwald make veiled threats, accusations and running commentary on all the major networks during that time. It was cut and dry and not with the silliness that comes along with Greenwald.

This.

7 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:27:55pm

Are there any meaningful differences between Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Beck?

8 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:28:51pm
9 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:30:18pm

re: #7 Vicious Babushka

Are there any meaningful differences between Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Beck?

Yes. Greenwald HATES Israel. Beck LOVES Israel…as a setting for the biblical end times.

10 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:32:15pm

re: #9 bratwurst

Yes. Greenwald HATES Israel. Beck LOVES Israel…as a setting for the biblical end times.

So, Greenwald & Beck both want to see Juice die.

11 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:33:37pm

re: #7 Vicious Babushka

Are there any meaningful differences between Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Beck?

I don’t think Greenwald cries as much.

12 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:34:08pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

I don’t think Greenwald cries as much.

He might before this is over.

13 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:34:09pm

re: #10 Vicious Babushka

So, Greenwald & Beck both want to see Juice die.

Why is Greenwald anti-Israel? I confess I have chosen not to learn much about this hack.

14 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:35:33pm

re: #7 Vicious Babushka

Are there any meaningful differences between Glenn Greenwald and Glenn Beck?

Not these days.

15 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:36:42pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

He might before this is over.

Perhaps so but no one cries like Glenn Beck.

16 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:36:44pm

re: #6 HappyWarrior

hard to express any nuanced position in the twitterverse I’m afraid.

still waiting on the conclusive evidence that the NSA surveillance cited by WonderBoy and his source broke any American Laws.

one took his case to the American public via an American news outlet regarding an American war that was being waged off the books and without admission from an existing government

the other tried to negotiate his story for the best possible deal and fled the country and started chatting up a global rival who is actively engaged in economic and intelligence espionage against our country

Other than those minute differences, they’re mirror images of each other ///

17 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:37:49pm

re: #10 Vicious Babushka

So, Greenwald & Beck both want to see Juice die.

THE NSA IS PART OF THE HEGEMONIC POWER STRUCTURE OF THE PATRIARCHAL COLONIALIST WESTERN ZIONIST ENTITIES! DEATH TO THE JUICE!

//

18 freetoken  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:38:16pm

At this point it looks like what Glen Greenwald has become is primarily a source for new conspiracy ideas for Glenn Beck to market.

When that occurs to someone perhaps that said someone might want to rethink what they’re doing?

19 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:39:47pm

re: #16 piratedan

hard to express any nuanced position in the twitterverse I’m afraid.

still waiting on the conclusive evidence that the NSA surveillance cited by WonderBoy and his source broke any American Laws.

one took his case to the American public via an American news outlet regarding an American war that was being waged off the books and without admission from an existing government

the other tried to negotiate his story for the best possible deal and fled the country and started chatting up a global rival who is actively engaged in economic and intelligence espionage against our country

Other than those minute differences, they’re mirror images of each other ///

Yeah that’s why I don’t like twitter. Limiting space to 150 characters makes it hard to point out nuance. It just makes things like ZOMG TYRANNY easier. It’s got its uses but I don’t use twitter and if I did, I wouldn’t be using it to push my views but I don’t eevn use my facebook for that unless you want to hear good music.

20 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:41:24pm

Ellsberg will wind up comparing himself to Edward Snowdenhands if he hasn’t already. He already thinks Manning is like himself.

21 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:42:11pm

In case it happens to be somebody’s birthday today or in the near future, I just want to say happy birthday!

Later, lizards.

22 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:43:42pm

Meanwhile, China tries to create an Empire:

Calls Grow in China to Press Claim for Okinawa

Instead, the group that gathered at Renmin University was focused on a more enticing prize — Japan’s southernmost island chain, which includes the strategic linchpin of Okinawa, home to 1.3 million Japanese citizens, not to mention 27,000 American troops.

The Chinese government itself has not asserted a claim to Okinawa or the other isles in the Ryukyu chain. But the seminar last month, which included state researchers and retired officers from the senior ranks of the People’s Liberation Army, was the latest act in what seems to be a semiofficial campaign in China to question Japanese rule of the islands.

In light of Snowden’s fleeing to China, we should consider China to be hostile and aggressive.

23 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:43:56pm

BWAHAHAA

25 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:45:49pm

re: #19 HappyWarrior

Yeah that’s why I don’t like twitter. Limiting space to 150 characters makes it hard to point out nuance. It just makes things like ZOMG TYRANNY easier. It’s got its uses but I don’t use twitter and if I did, I wouldn’t be using it to push my views but I don’t eevn use my facebook for that unless you want to hear good music.

Check out TwitLonger. It allows column length posts on Twitter.

26 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:47:21pm

re: #23 Vicious Babushka

BWAHAHAA

You’ll get a kick out of a link there.

27 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:47:37pm
28 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:48:14pm
Greenwald has not yet made a public evaluation of whether or not he agrees that he made that mistake. He owes it to us to do so, with as much speed as practicably possible. It’s not too much to say that the fate of his broader NSA project might hinge on doing so effectively—because the powers that be will find it very easy to seize on this one error to discredit his every NSA revelation, even the ones he nailed dead to rights. (“It’s not like there aren’t legitimate things to complain about here,” as Fogel notes.) Such distraction campaigns are how power does its dirtiest work. Think of the way the questions about the authenticity of the “Killian documents” were able to obscure the fact that George W. Bush actually did go AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard or how the unrelated or how the unrelated killing of a CIA station chief in Greece was used to discredit the congressional investigations of CIA wrongdoing in 1975—cases with which Greenwald should be well-familiar. So, Glenn Greenwald, what’s the word? The fate of our civil liberties may depend on it.
29 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:48:24pm

See it?

30 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:49:18pm

Click the Killian documents link and who shows up! Charles Johnson!

Bwahahaha!

Trust me. Glenn Greenwald will see that.

31 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:49:33pm

Throbbing memo!

32 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:50:03pm

re: #2 wheat-dogghazi

Are there any meaningful differences between the actions of Dan Ellsberg Benedict Arnold & Edward Snowden?

Why yes, there are.

Benedict Arnold was a patriotic and effective commander who was wounded in battle, and sank much of his personal fortune into the cause of American independence before his defection.

Snowden compares poorly to Arnold.

33 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:51:31pm

re: #5 Iwouldprefernotto

Are there any meaningful differences between Glen Greenwald and Scott Walker? Has anyone ever seen a picture of them together? Could be twins.

Yes, Scott Walker isn’t a drama queen (by politician standards, that is), whereas Glenn Greenwald surely qualifies as one by any standard.

34 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:54:09pm

re: #32 Mentis Fugit

Why, yes, there is.

Benedict Arnold was a patriotic and effective commander who was wounded in battle, and sunk much of his personal fortune into the cause of American independence before his defection.

Snowden compares poorly to Arnold.

Indeed. Arnold was also legitimately screwed over by politics within the Continental Army and Continental Congress. Snowden was given honest opportunities but FAILed at most of them.

/The preceding is not a defense of Benedict Arnold.

35 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:55:59pm

re: #22 ProTARDISLiberal

Meanwhile, China tries to create an Empire:

Calls Grow in China to Press Claim for Okinawa

In light of Snowden’s fleeing to China, we should consider China to be hostile and aggressive.

Except if you read the excerpt you quote here, you’d see it says the government is not considering acquiring Okinawa, but the group meeting at Renmin U says it should.

There is a strong ultra-nationalist movement in China, which admittedly the government encourages. These are the people who got all hot and bothered about DiaoYu/Senkaku islands incident several months ago, setting off riots in the streets targeting Japanese owned businesses and Japanese-marque cars.

36 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:56:32pm

The fire departments of Security and Boulder saved a school in the burn area.

37 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:56:48pm

re: #28 Gus

Apparently I’m a super-powerful secret villain doing my dirty distraction work. So what else is new?

38 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:57:08pm

re: #30 Gus

Click the Killian documents link and who shows up! Charles Johnson!

Bwahahaha!

Trust me. Glenn Greenwald will see that.

Ya think?

39 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:58:12pm

re: #34 Dark_Falcon

OK, you and Mentis Fugit gave me good answers. Maybe I should replace Arnold with Quisling.

My Mentis has gone fugit.

40 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:59:05pm

re: #35 wheat-dogghazi

I’m unwilling to even give China a scintilla of “benefit of the doubt.”

You’ll notice in the rest of the article how the NYT notes that this is semi-official.

41 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 5:59:58pm

re: #30 Gus

Click the Killian documents link and who shows up! Charles Johnson!

Bwahahaha!

Trust me. Glenn Greenwald will see that.

That’s why I retweeted it, even though the comment with the link is pretty stupid.

42 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:01:23pm

nuance

i’m not at all interested in talking about snowden

the “patriot” act fatally compromises the 4th amendment and ought to be declared unconstitutional and repealed

43 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:02:04pm

re: #39 wheat-dogghazi

OK, you and Mentis Fugit gave me good answers. Maybe I should replace Arnold with Quisling.

My Mentis has gone fugit.

That doesn’t work either. The government of China, bad as it is, is not the Nazis. The use of ‘Quisling’ in this case runs far too close to the Godwin Line for my taste.

44 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:02:09pm

re: #40 ProTARDISLiberal

China has been rattling its sabres at everyone lately, especially Japan, which is itself doing an incredibly bad job at diplomacy lately. I’m not saying China is not wishing it had Okinawa or the Senkaku Islands. I seriously doubt they will try to make such a move in the near future.

45 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:02:12pm

re: #40 ProTARDISLiberal

I’m unwilling to even give China a scintilla of “benefit of the doubt.”

You’ll notice in the rest of the article how the NYT notes that this is semi-official.

As in all other areas, possession is 9/10th of international law. Okinawa isn’t going to be transferred to China. It’s highly unlikely that the Senkaku islands will change hands.

46 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:02:49pm

re: #42 engineer cat

nuance

i’m not at all interested in talking about snowden

the “patriot” act fatally compromises the 4th amendment and ought to be declared unconstitutional and repealed

That’s not going to happen, though.

47 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:02:53pm

I’m wondering how long before the Greenwald cultists connect the dots and realize that I’m a sinister Machiavelli working behind the scenes with my evil distraction campaigns. First Dan Rather, now Glenn Greenwald. There’s a definite pattern emerging.

48 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:02:54pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

Apparently I’m a super-powerful secret villain doing my dirty distraction work. So what else is new?

Back to the future!

49 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:04:58pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

That doesn’t work either. The government of China, bad as it is, is not the Nazis. The use of ‘Quisling’ in this case runs far too close to the Godwin Line for my taste.

Curses! Foiled again! I need to review my Defectors and Double-agents 101 text.

50 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:07:49pm

re: #13 wheat-dogghazi

Why is Greenwald anti-Israel? I confess I have chosen not to learn much about this hack.

He’s the flag-bearer for the new anti-Semitic…uh I mean anti-ISRAEL European left. You can pretty much read every column he’s ever written, I am not sure if he has ever gotten through one without expressing his disdain for Israel.

51 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:08:13pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

must be time to talk to a realtor about remote dormant volcano properties and put that ad in the paper for minion recruitment

52 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:09:24pm

re: #51 piratedan

must be time to talk to a realtor about remote dormant volcano properties and put that ad in the paper for minion recruitment

Active volcano. Super villains have badass super-villain technology to deal with having their lair located in an active volcano.

53 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:09:41pm

re: #46 Dark_Falcon

That’s not going to happen, though.

it now has many millions fewer supporters than it did a couple of weeks ago

54 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:09:55pm
55 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:10:38pm

re: #52 EPR-radar

Active volcano. Super villains have badass super-villain technology to deal with having their lair located in an active volcano.

And sharks, with frikkin’ lasers on them.

56 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:12:21pm

re: #52 EPR-radar

trouble is that so much of that stuff is eco-friendly, have to be selective y’know

57 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:12:51pm

re: #50 bratwurst

He’s the flag-bearer for the new anti-Semitic…uh I mean anti-ISRAEL European left. You can pretty much read every column he’s ever written, I am not sure if he has ever gotten through one without expressing his disdain for Israel.

Ah. Nothing like complaining about something that’s been around for 70 years. So, he would prefer Israel just go away somehow?

58 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:13:34pm

re: #47 Charles Johnson

I’m wondering how long before the Greenwald cultists connect the dots and realize that I’m a sinister Machiavelli working behind the scenes with my evil distraction campaigns. First Dan Rather, now Glenn Greenwald. There’s a definite pattern emerging.

Page it! Bwahahaha!

59 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:15:06pm

re: #53 engineer cat

it now has many millions fewer supporters than it did a couple of weeks ago

Not so sure about the scope on any loss of support. The Congress supports the NSA program, though, and the PATRIOT Act has been law for almost 12 years now. It has inertia on its side and in DC that is a powerful ally to have.

60 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:19:42pm

re: #47 Charles Johnson

I’m wondering how long before the Greenwald cultists connect the dots and realize that I’m a sinister Machiavelli working behind the scenes with my evil distraction campaigns. First Dan Rather, now Glenn Greenwald. There’s a definite pattern emerging.

BWAHAHAA!!

61 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:20:32pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

Not so sure about the scope on any loss of support. The Congress supports the NSA program, though, and the PATRIOT Act has been law for almost 12 years now. It has inertia on its side and in DC that is a powerful ally to have.

The antics of Snowden/Greenwald etc. are also discrediting the anti Patriot act position (illogical, but human nature).

62 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:21:29pm

And now we have a Tornado out in Logan and Washington Counties.

Hooray!//////

Coincidentally, this is the part of Colorado that wanted to secede. They wouldn’t have the resources to deal with this on their own.

63 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:23:48pm
64 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:25:42pm
65 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:28:19pm

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Think in a lot of ways they understand that things like this go downhill fast when it ceases being about the leak and becomes about the leaker. Thing is, Snowden is too fucking pleased with the version of himself that exists within his imagination that this can’t be about the NSA anymore. It’s become about him and Greenwald seems to have done everything possible to just make people want to know more about Snowden.

66 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:29:27pm
67 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:30:05pm

re: #57 wheat-dogghazi

Ah. Nothing like complaining about something that’s been around for 70 years. So, he would prefer Israel just go away somehow?

He never really goes into detail about what he thinks SHOULD happen to the 6,030,100 or so Jews living there.

I once saw a Twitter exchange in which he refused to express even a bit of empathy for Jews in parts of Israel subject to periodic Qassam rocket attacks because they shouldn’t live on other people’s land! When asked if his home in the US had ever been inhabited by Native Americans, he responding by informing the questioner that he doesn’t live in the US (I guess the land he lives on in Brazil has ALWAYS been a gated community for the wealthy, right?) and that anyone who disputes his view about Qassam attacks on Israel is a racist. I wish I were making this up.

68 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:31:29pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

Not so sure about the scope on any loss of support. The Congress supports the NSA program, though, and the PATRIOT Act has been law for almost 12 years now. It has inertia on its side and in DC that is a powerful ally to have.

are you in favor of what the latest leaks have revealed?

69 wheat-dogghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:32:27pm

re: #67 bratwurst

He never really goes into detail about what he thinks SHOULD happen to the 6,030,100 or so Jews living there.

I once saw a Twitter exchange in which he refused to express even a bit of empathy for Jews in parts of Israel subject to periodic Qassam rocket attacks because they shouldn’t live on other people’s land! When asked if his home in the US had ever been inhabited by Native Americans, he responding by informing the questioner that he doesn’t live in the US (I guess the land he lives on in Brazil has ALWAYS been a gated community for the wealthy, right?) and that anyone who disputes his view about Qassam attacks on Israel is a racist. I wish I were making this up.

It fits what I already know about him.

70 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:34:25pm
71 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:35:36pm

I can’t stress that enough.

72 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:41:00pm

re: #67 bratwurst

He never really goes into detail about what he thinks SHOULD happen to the 6,030,100 or so Jews living there.

I once saw a Twitter exchange in which he refused to express even a bit of empathy for Jews in parts of Israel subject to periodic Qassam rocket attacks because they shouldn’t live on other people’s land! When asked if his home in the US had ever been inhabited by Native Americans, he responding by informing the questioner that he doesn’t live in the US (I guess the land he lives on in Brazil has ALWAYS been a gated community for the wealthy, right?) and that anyone who disputes his view about Qassam attacks on Israel is a racist. I wish I were making this up.

What a fucking douche.

73 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:43:23pm
74 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:43:33pm
75 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:43:44pm
76 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:44:52pm

re: #68 engineer cat

are you in favor of what the latest leaks have revealed?

Yes, I am.

77 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:45:29pm

Seriously, here we are a week later and Greenwald still sitting on 37 slides out of 41 that Snowden supposedly gave him. I can’t say as I remember the NYT sitting on the bulk of the Pentagon Papers and declaring “Trust us, this is serious shit!”

78 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:48:06pm

OT, or not OT; that’s up to our host.

[Onion.mode.on]
I came across a newish company that makes a fantastic new video game. It may be way too pricy for most of us, but it seems there are more firms and agencies than you can shake a stick at, and even governments, that will actually pay people to play. Many have very deep pockets, so really good players can possibly pull down as much as $122,000 per year.

If I were tasked to name this new video game, I’d be inclined to suggest something like Lordz and Serphs. That’s because, while you are playing, it’s really really hard to figure out which category of player you are, at least in the beginning. There are many built-in clues such as access privileges that will quickly help you figure out your status, relative to the other players.

Other clues may even appear outside the game. For example, your friends and family might begin looking at you funny, or your bank account might be frozen.

One player recently found himself in Hong Kong, giving a interview to Glenn Greenwald.

Actually, no one name is appropriate, because this new video game is available in an endless number of variations. They really are going after a very broad market, not just hard-core gamers. The user interface, from what I’ve seen, seems to offer a remarkable consistency, at least for some of the major categories of functionality. This greatly favors ease-of-use, so that practically anyone can learn to play. Walk-up usability is what they are claiming.

They even have a youtube channel with a couple hundred or so videos, promoting this new multi-player gaming platform. [Onion.mode.off]

WARNING: I’d recommend NOT clicking this link directly. Doing so might result in some players or management taking an unwarranted interest in you, and you might then find yourself on the receiving end of targeted ads, and other stuff. If they are going to target you, don’t make it so easy, ok?

Instead, copy the link, open a new tab, and paste the link into the address bar of your browser, preferably with a prefix of h t t p s : / /

Alternatively, under Windows, you can “drag” the link to your desktop or to any convenient folder, and then tweek it before you launch it. End-Warning Palantir

79 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:48:32pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

Seriously, here we are a week later and Greenwald still sitting on 37 slides out of 41 that Snowden supposedly gave him. I can’t say as I remember the NYT sitting on the bulk of the Pentagon Papers and declaring “Trust us, this is serious shit!”

I thought it was the Guardian and the Post that were sitting on the bulk of the slides. Interesting.

80 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:51:49pm

re: #79 EPR-radar

I thought it was the Guardian and the Post that were sitting on the bulk of the slides. Interesting.

Greenwald’s the guy who apparently has been working with Snowden since February, broke the story, and has been promising more stories. Now all of a sudden he’s focused on polishing Snowden’s ass while the rest of the evidence languishes. Hell, even if Greenwald got cold feet and decided not to release the rest, what’s stopping Snowden? Unless he, like I’ve been figuring for awhile, is sitting on the rest as a bargaining chip for his eventual asylum.

81 darthstar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:51:55pm

Ha!

Image: 1000064_4782707288352_1432990731_n.jpg

82 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:52:17pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

Yes, I am.

how many other amendments in the bill of rights will we find it necessary to “revise” in the future, do you think?

83 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:52:45pm

re: #79 EPR-radar

I thought it was the Guardian and the Post that were sitting on the bulk of the slides. Interesting.

They may be sitting on them for the same reason Ellsberg sat on a small number of the volumes of the Pentagon Papers: Those volumes contained information on ongoing operations and their disclosure at that time would have gotten people killed (he did release those volumes years later).

84 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:52:55pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

Seriously, here we are a week later and Greenwald still sitting on 37 slides out of 41 that Snowden supposedly gave him. I can’t say as I remember the NYT sitting on the bulk of the Pentagon Papers and declaring “Trust us, this is serious shit!”

Very telling. The Guardian has a huge market incentive to publish the rest of the slides, but they haven’t.

85 AlexRogan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:52:55pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

Seriously, here we are a week later and Greenwald still sitting on 37 slides out of 41 that Snowden supposedly gave him. I can’t say as I remember the NYT sitting on the bulk of the Pentagon Papers and declaring “Trust us, this is serious shit!”

Either what GG and the Guardian are holding out on is SERIOUS SHIT (meaning that even they have limits or apprehensions about what they have) or it’s a huge nothing burger (meaning that they cherrypicked what would be perceived to be the most damaging).

86 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:53:39pm

re: #82 engineer cat

how many other amendments in the bill of rights will we find it necessary to “revise” in the future, do you think?

You have yet to make the case that the law in question is unconstitutional. Present your argument, please.

87 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:54:21pm

In a way it’s good to know there are still some national security lines the Guardian won’t cross.

88 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:55:58pm

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Very telling. The Guardian has a huge market incentive to publish the rest of the slides, but they haven’t.

They’re still trying to figure out how to stop being laughed at get that Pulitzer.

89 stabby  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:56:14pm

Well there are probably lines that if they crossed them, their OWN government would throw them all in jail.

90 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:57:21pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

Greenwald’s the guy who apparently has been working with Snowden since February, broke the story, and has been promising more stories. Now all of a sudden he’s focused on polishing Snowden’s ass while the rest of the evidence languishes. Hell, even if Greenwald got cold feet and decided not to release the rest, what’s stopping Snowden? Unless he, like I’ve been figuring for awhile, is sitting on the rest as a bargaining chip for his eventual asylum.

I thought Snowden had said that both the Guardian and the Post received the full slide package, and that Snowden was trying to ensure that all slides got published. Of course, Snowden is a very unreliable witness, but Greenwald as the only gate keeper seems incorrect to me because he would have no effect on what the Post ended up doing.

One of the reasons this has been such a hot mess is that it looks like both the Post and the Guardian rushed the job in order to be ‘first’.

91 darthstar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:57:57pm
92 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 6:58:49pm

re: #90 EPR-radar

I though Snowden had said that both the Guardian and the Post received the full slide package, and that Snowden was trying to ensure that all slides got published. Of course, Snowden is a very unreliable witness, but Greenwald as the only gate keeper seems incorrect to me because he would have no effect on what the Post ended up doing.

One of the reasons this has been such a hot mess is that it looks like both the Post and the Guardian rushed the job in order to be ‘first’.

Snowden went to the Post first, wanting them to publish in 72 hours with virtually no questions asked. They refused, so he said he was taking the story to Greenwald, which is when they published the story to try to get a slice of the outrage pie.

93 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:02:04pm

re: #87 Charles Johnson

In a way it’s good to know there are still some national security lines the Guardian won’t cross.

That is an interesting issue. The legal obligation of the Guardian to protect US classified information isn’t really there.

94 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:03:26pm

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

You have yet to make the case that the law in question is unconstitutional. Present your argument, please.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

there wouldn’t be any need to have passed the “patriot” act at all except to modify the above

if the government can get the metadata for all phone calls made by americans, where is the “probable cause”

but i’ll restate the first question for emphasis: if the 4th amendment is not being revised, what then is the purpose of the “patriot” act?

95 compound_Idaho  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:08:12pm

Wichita Wingnuts - Go Nuts!

wichitawingnuts.com

96 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:08:35pm

just the fact that it is called the “patriot act” violates this well known law:

“Never play cards with a man called Doc. Never eat at a place called Mom’s. Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own.”

ok, maybe only the second one…

97 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:11:34pm

re: #96 engineer cat

just the fact that it is called the “patriot act” violates this well known law:

“Never play cards with a man called Doc. Never eat at a place called Mom’s. Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are worse than your own.”

ok, maybe only the second one…

how about:

never do business with somebody who tells you “you can trust me!”

never buy anything labelled “100% genuine”

never vote for anybody who swears they are a “true patriot”

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:11:41pm

re: #3 Gus

Ellsberg was straightforward in his actions. He released the Pentagon papers over a period of days. Then when into hiding. It was released to the American owned NY Times and not the UK owned Guardian. He didn’t have an “agent” like Greenwald make veiled threats, accusations and running commentary on all the major networks during that time. It was cut and dry and not with the silliness that comes along with Greenwald.

Whatever happened to fair dealing
And pure ethics
And nice manners?
Why is it everyone now is a pain in the Ass?
Whatever happened to class?

Millennials don’t really know how to do this sort of thing.

99 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:17:28pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Whatever happened to fair dealing
And pure ethics
And nice manners?
Why is it everyone now is a pain in the Ass?
Whatever happened to class?

Millennials don’t really know how to do this sort of thing.

Kind of scary the way people are so bland about stealing these sorts of things these days. Imagine sitting at a disk in an outfit like Booz or the NSA itself and having to wonder if your co-worker has deemed himself as arbiter of secrets. Even after getting a top secret security clearance. I just think it will get worse.

100 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:18:04pm
101 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:19:31pm

re: #67 bratwurst

When asked if his home in the US had ever been inhabited by Native Americans, he responding by informing the questioner that he doesn’t live in the US (I guess the land he lives on in Brazil has ALWAYS been a gated community for the wealthy, right?)

Wowwww.

102 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:20:35pm

re: #95 compound_Idaho

Wichita Wingnuts - Go Nuts!

wichitawingnuts.com

Can’t make this shit up. For reelz.

103 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:21:44pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

re: #86 Dark_Falcon

Not so sure about the scope on any loss of support. The Congress supports the NSA program, though, and the PATRIOT Act has been law for almost 12 years now. It has inertia on its side and in DC that is a powerful ally to have.

It was sold as extraordinary and temporary. 12 years later either it’s far less necessary or the long term anti terror effort is a fail. Time for this sun to set. And FISA needs a long hard look. Too many FISA and Administrative subpoenas that have nothing to do with terror. The sunset clause was a constitutional dodge ball play. The Patriot act is used about 15% of the time on terror targets. I find that to show precisely why it’s unconstitutional and should come to and end. It’s just not the months after the attack anymore.

104 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:22:15pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

Wowwww.

Bowwww

105 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:22:19pm

re: #99 Gus

Kind of scary the way people are so bland about stealing these sorts of things these days. Imagine sitting at a disk in an outfit like Booz or the NSA itself and having to wonder if your co-worker has deemed himself as arbiter of secrets. Even after getting a top secret security clearance. I just think it will get worse.

Most of the blame for that goes to the individuals who act in bad faith, of course, but we also have an issue with rot at the top.

We have two legal systems in the US. Most of us are subject to the legal system that comes down like a ton of bricks on the accused, often in a completely arbitrary and capricious manner.

The other legal system is the one where rich, powerful and well-connected people are obviously above the law.

This makes it harder for people to respect the system than it should be.

106 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:23:23pm

re: #94 engineer cat

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

there wouldn’t be any need to have passed the “patriot” act at all except to modify the above

if the government can get the metadata for all phone calls made by americans, where is the “probable cause”

but i’ll restate the first question for emphasis: if the 4th amendment is not being revised, what then is the purpose of the “patriot” act?

The 4th Amendment requirement of probable cause doesn’t apply to that metadata, because users do not have an expectation of privacy from the phone company in terms of that data.

107 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:25:18pm

Wonder what David Duke thinks…

108 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:28:10pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

because users do not have an expectation of privacy from the phone company in terms of that data.

Disagree. That’s all between me and my friends/family. The phone company’s interest in that data is AFAIK for billing purposes only. Unless they have cause. Then get a warrant.

109 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:32:11pm

re: #107 Gus

Wonder what David Duke thinks…

“I was born 100 years too late!”
/

110 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:32:54pm

re: #109 sattv4u2

“I was born 100 years too late!”
/

Just checked his Twitter feed. Nothing about the NSA. But man he sure still hates TEH JUICE!

111 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:35:28pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

The 4th Amendment requirement of probable cause doesn’t apply to that metadata, because users do not have an expectation of privacy from the phone company in terms of that data.

i’d have to say that’s incorrect

i have an expectation of privacy in any business transaction - any - and i don’t recall signing any releases stating that it would be ok for my cell carrier to share information about who i called and when

why would you think that that information is not priviledged and private??

any information about who i communicate with, for how long, and when, is private information protected under the 4th amendment. it is not legal for authorities to subpoena it unless they have probable cause to suspect me of a crime, and obtain a warrant

period, end of sentence, full stop, puenta, no mas

112 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:36:32pm

ACLU filed a suit so it will probably go to court now since they have evidence so to speak.

113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:37:18pm

re: #111 engineer cat

The cops can force testimony out of people who aren’t accused of a crime, though, just if they have knowledge of a crime.

The information isn’t, currently, privileged. The companies can sell it to other people.

114 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:39:24pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

The 4th Amendment requirement of probable cause doesn’t apply to that metadata, because users do not have an expectation of privacy from the phone company in terms of that data.

face it, dark, the only possible function of the “patriot” act is to render the entire 4th amendment null and void

115 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:39:25pm

re: #113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The cops can force testimony out of people who aren’t accused of a crime, though, just if they have knowledge of a crime.

The information isn’t, currently, privileged. The companies can sell it to other people.

Not to mention SCOTUS ruled in Smith v. Maryland that users do not have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” when it comes to the numbers they call and for how long they talk and thus the cops obtaining such information does not constitute a search as it’s understood under the 4th Amendment. The most that law enforcement requires to obtain such records is a court order.

116 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:41:08pm

re: #115 Targetpractice

I would prefer it if it were otherwise, if the companies themselves were forced to obfuscate their own metadata and stuff, but we’re so far away from that right now.

117 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:41:41pm

re: #114 engineer cat

face it, dark, the only possible function of the “patriot” act is to render the entire 4th amendment null and void

To play devil’s advocate here, if this is true, why would the agencies bother with a second court order that allows them to go back through the metadata for specific persons of interest?

118 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:43:52pm

re: #113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The cops can force testimony out of people who aren’t accused of a crime, though, just if they have knowledge of a crime.

The information isn’t, currently, privileged. The companies can sell it to other people.

oh?

where can i get a copy of the records of who bill gates has been chatting with lately? how about your phone calls?

no, who you called and when you called them has always been priviledged and private information obtainable only by warrant

119 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:45:30pm

re: #118 engineer cat

oh?

where can i get a copy of the records of who bill gates has been chatting with lately? how about your phone calls?

no, who you called and when you called them has always been priviledged and private information obtainable only by warrant

“Lenny, you check his LUDs.”

120 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:45:46pm

re: #115 Targetpractice

Not to mention SCOTUS ruled in Smith v. Maryland that users do not have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” when it comes to the numbers they call and for how long they talk and thus the cops obtaining such information does not constitute a search as it’s understood under the 4th Amendment. The most that law enforcement requires to obtain such records is a court order.

ok, i guess i am ignorant of the difference between a “warrant” and a “court order”

please explain

121 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:46:43pm

re: #118 engineer cat

f who bill gates has been chatting with lately?

Not me!!

how about your phone calls?

Lots of heavy breathing. Why do you ask!?!?!

/

122 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:46:46pm

re: #118 engineer cat

What they police can do and what you can do are different matters.

123 klys and whatnot  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:46:50pm

re: #120 engineer cat

ok, i guess i am ignorant of the difference between a “warrant” and a “court order”

please explain

From here:

Listening to your phone calls without a judge’s warrant is illegal if you’re a U.S. citizen. But police don’t need a warrant — which requires showing “probable cause” of a crime — to get just the numbers for incoming and outgoing calls from phone carriers. Instead, police can get courts to sign off on a subpoena, which only requires that the data they’re after is relevant to an investigation — a lesser standard of evidence.

124 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:48:23pm

re: #120 engineer cat

ok, i guess i am ignorant of the difference between a “warrant” and a “court order”

please explain

My guess is that a warrant has to specifically name someone, while a court order can be a sweeping dragnet.

If so, then the Verizon metadata is collected for all on the basis of a court order, and a specific warrant is required to go though it looking for anyone.

125 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:49:52pm

re: #123 klys and whatnot

From here:

In other words, law enforcement only has to show that a pen register will likely yield information relevant to a criminal investigation, rather than showing evidence that the information being obtained is relevant.

126 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:50:15pm

re: #118 engineer cat

oh?

where can i get a copy of the records of who bill gates has been chatting with lately? how about your phone calls?

You could buy them from various companies.

itlaw.wikia.com

no, who you called and when you called them has always been priviledged and private information obtainable only by warrant

No, it’s a really murky legal area, as you’ll see in the link above. There are places still currently selling cell phone records.

127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:51:05pm

I just cut an Alder down, now how do I kill it?

128 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:52:01pm

re: #127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I just cut an Alder down, now how do I kill it?

You should respect your alders.

129 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:52:04pm

this is what i found:

1. What is a “search warrant”?

A search warrant is a type of court order and process directing a law enforcement officer to search designated premises, vehicles or persons for the purpose of seizing designated items and accounting for any items so obtained to the court which issued the warrant. (See N.C.G.S. 15A-241).

so how is a “court order” issued for the purposes of obtaining private records different than a “search warrant”?

130 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:52:13pm

re: #125 Targetpractice

In other words, law enforcement only has to show that a pen register will likely yield information relevant to a criminal investigation, rather than showing evidence that the information being obtained is relevant.

And what the Feds are currently doing is extending this idea to a nationwide dragnet of metadata for all calls. This is a nontrivial expansion of scope compared to the itty bitty pen register of Smith v Maryland.

131 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:54:10pm

re: #127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I just cut an Alder down, now how do I kill it?

Burn it!

132 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:54:19pm

People, in general, think they have a lot more privacy than they really do. Most of our privacy is obscurity.

133 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:54:32pm

re: #130 EPR-radar

And what the Feds are currently doing is extending this idea to a nationwide dragnet of metadata for all calls. This is a nontrivial expansion of scope compared to the itty bitty pen register of Smith v Maryland.

Their argument’s an expansion that goes “We believe this block of data might, when pored through, contain information relevant to on-going anti-terror investigations.” I’ll agree that’s nontrivial, but what limits could we set?

134 Kaessa  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:54:33pm

re: #127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I just cut an Alder down, now how do I kill it?

Drill holes in the stump and pour in weed killer. At least that’s what I did with the nasty elms around my house. It worked on most of them.

135 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:54:54pm

re: #131 Gus

Burn it!

I’d get arrested.

136 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:55:07pm

re: #126 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
re: #116 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Could not agree more

Let’s pretend a phone company or major ISP would like to enjoy a competitive advantage of holding your data tightly. Given the current state of the administrative subpoena that’s a promise they can not keep.

I’d like to have the option. Based on pre 9/11 it might have been an option.

137 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:55:52pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

What they police can do and what you can do are different matters.

yes, the police can get search warrants to get ahold of information that would otherwise be private, that’s my point

the “patriot” act just makes the whole process much easier

by the way, you never answered my question: if the “patriot” act doesn’t modify the 4th amendment, then what the hell does it do?

138 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:56:40pm

re: #134 Kaessa

Drill holes in the stump and pour in weed killer. At least that’s what I did with the nasty elms around my house. It worked on most of them.

There are dozens of stumps in a clump. The damn thing was like a giant weed.

I’ll give it a try, thanks.

139 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:57:07pm

re: #132 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

People, in general, think they have a lot more privacy than they really do. Most of our privacy is obscurity.

One effect of the all-volunteer military is a wide generational difference in concepts of privacy and personal autonomy.

140 Lidane  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:57:46pm

Sorry to interrupt, but this is awesome. Meet The Coyote. He’s the mascot of the San Antonio Spurs:

nba.com

Tonight, the 11-year old mariachi singer who was taunted by racist assholes online for singing the National Anthem performed it again to a massive ovation from the crowd.

On top of that, this was The Coyote tonight:

Image: coyote.jpg

Suck it, haters. :D

141 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:57:51pm

re: #136 Political Atheist

re: #116 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Could not agree more

Let’s pretend a phone company or major ISP would like to enjoy a competitive advantage of holding your data tightly. Given the current state of the administrative subpoena that’s a promise they can not keep.

I’d like to have the option. Based on pre 9/11 it might have been an option.

That was then, this is now. The government needs these powers to sniff out terror plots. Such powers are not liked, but they are needed.

142 Lidane  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:58:27pm

re: #127 Walking Spanish Down the Hall

I just cut an Alder down, now how do I kill it?

Nuke it from orbit.

143 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 7:58:45pm

re: #126 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

You could buy them from various companies.

itlaw.wikia.com

No, it’s a really murky legal area, as you’ll see in the link above. There are places still currently selling cell phone records.

i really find it hard to believe i can buy records telling me who, when, and for how long all the ceo’s of all major corporations have called from their office phones or cell phones

144 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:00:49pm

re: #136 Political Atheist

That promise would only be as good as the next dip in stock price and change in executive strategy, though.

The only way that data can actually be assured to be private is if it’s safeguarded by law.

But we are really so very far from that.

And it engages some odd disparities— my wife has a very, very unique name, and there’s probably only one person with her name in the world. I share my name with hundreds of people. Stuff like that— I mean, good luck finding the right Cesar Romero or Hoang Nguyễn.

145 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:01:37pm

re: #139 Decatur Deb

One effect of the all-volunteer military is a wide generational difference in concepts of privacy and personal autonomy.

I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand. Do you mean the experience of the military for such a higher percentage of the population back in the 40s-70’s made people more used to the idea of restricted privacy?

146 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:02:14pm

re: #126 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

You could buy them from various companies.

itlaw.wikia.com

No, it’s a really murky legal area, as you’ll see in the link above. There are places still currently selling cell phone records.

from your link:

Under Section 222(h) of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI) is defined as:

” (A) information that relates to the quantity, technical configuration, type, destination, location, and amount of use of a telecommunications service subscribed to by any customer of a telecommunications carrier, and that is made available to the carrier by the customer solely by virtue of the carrier-customer relationship; and (b) information contained in the bills pertaining to telephone exchange service or telephone toll service received by a customer of a carrier, except that such term does not include subscriber list information.

how does that make my phone records public information?

147 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:02:33pm

re: #143 engineer cat

i really find it hard to believe i can buy records telling me who, when, and for how long all the ceo’s of all major corporations have called from their office phones or cell phones

I don’t know the details, but as you can see from the link, it’s an ongoing fight, but you can currently buy cell phone records.

148 Political Atheist  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:02:47pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

That was then, this is now. The government needs these powers to sniff out terror plots. Such powers are not liked, but they are needed.

I have far less objection to the 15% (or so) of the time it’s used for anti terror. When you pass a law or expand procedure like FISA for terrorism, well stick to anti terror. A blind eye to the rest of it’s use is just unwise. Especially with the technology advancing so fast.

149 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:03:00pm

re: #146 engineer cat

I didn’t say they were public information. And you get that I don’t think they should be even accessible to the phone company, right?

150 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:03:31pm

re: #137 engineer cat

yes, the police can get search warrants to get ahold of information that would otherwise be private, that’s my point

the “patriot” act just makes the whole process much easier

by the way, you never answered my question: if the “patriot” act doesn’t modify the 4th amendment, then what the hell does it do?

Do you mean “modify” the 4th amendment or “render it null and void” (from #114)?

Of course the Patriot Act is intended to modify what is and isn’t allowable in terms of surveillance etc. The 4th amendment serves as a boundary condition that sets limits on that tinkering. The courts have been reviewing Patriot Act provisions in view of the 4th amendment practically since the days it was passed.

I’m opposed to the Patriot Act, and would like to see it repealed, but I don’t think it is credible to assert that it renders the 4th amendment “null and void”.

151 klys and whatnot  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:03:36pm

Thanks to the thunderstorms on the East Coast, instead of picking up my parents now, I am waiting for another hour and a half before I leave for the airport.

re: #146 engineer cat

Did you look at where I linked in #123?

152 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:03:39pm

The Act requires telecommunications carriers and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (“VoIP”) providers to secure CPNI. Section 222 of the Act and the implementing rules require telecommunications carriers and interconnected Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) providers to secure CPNI. These entities must obtain consumers’ authorization before disclosing the protected data.

153 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:03:51pm

re: #145 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand. Do you mean the experience of the military for such a higher percentage of the population back in the 40s-70’s made people more used to the idea of restricted privacy?

No, I mean we could get a letter that says “Quit your job, go to Kentucky, and take showers with the guys for the next couple years—and we might get you killed.”

154 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:04:38pm

Little Rock deli stirs controversy with ‘Firearms Welcome’ sign (VIDEO)

The owner of two Schlotzsky’s Deli shops in North Little Rock, Arkansas, has stirred a bit of controversy after posting a sign at each of the restaurants. The sign simply assures concealed handgun carry license holders that they - and their guns - are welcome in his business.

A local news station reported that while some say they are thrilled he posted the signs and are more likely to visit the restaurant because of it, others are appalled at the sign and the fact that it invites the eatery to be like the “wild west.”

However, the shop owner, Jim Magers, claims that his motivation to post the signs was not political, but rather business and safety oriented. “This is simply an accommodation for people that are legally licensed to carry,” he said.

The sign.

And the video:

KATV - Breaking News, Weather and Razorback Sports

155 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:04:43pm

re: #149 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I didn’t say they were public information. And you get that I don’t think they should be even accessible to the phone company, right?

sorry i misunderstood! and i’m glad we agree

156 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:05:36pm

re: #155 engineer cat

sorry i misunderstood! and i’m glad we agree

But the current status of it is different, as I said. Some of the places have been shut down, but there are places selling cell phone records. I think that some shady carriers just get people to sign away the right to that, among the zillion forms people sign without reading.

157 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:10:05pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

That was then, this is now. The government needs these powers to sniff out terror plots. Such powers are not liked, but they are needed.

so goes the argument always heard from people willing to give up their civil rights when scared into it

next thing you know we’ll all feel much safer when we need permission to travel outside of town or own a gun

158 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:11:38pm

re: #142 Lidane

Nuke it from orbit.

I wish I could. The damn thing sent out dozens of suckers.

159 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:12:24pm

re: #157 engineer cat

so goes the argument always heard from people willing to give up their civil rights when scared into it

next thing you know we’ll all feel much safer when we need permission to travel outside of town or own a gun

One of the main reasons I want the Patriot Act repealed is so that when the next awful event happens (may it be many years from now), we won’t have the Patriot Act already in place as a starting point for further erosion of civil liberties.

160 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:15:07pm

re: #151 klys and whatnot

Thanks to the thunderstorms on the East Coast, instead of picking up my parents now, I am waiting for another hour and a half before I leave for the airport.

Did you look at where I linked in #123?

ok, i suppose you mean this:

According to the Associated Press, in January 2006, 40 websites were offering cell phone numbers, unlisted numbers, and calling records for sale.[11] The AP story reported that operators of such websites insist they are not doing anything illegal because there is no specific prohibition against pretexting to obtain another person’s data unless it involves financial data (the latter would violate the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act). Subsequently, following an FTC sweep of these sites, about 20 reportedly discontinued offering cell phone records.[12]

i must say i’m shocked

but if this is the same information that was in the recent disclosures, then why didn’t the nsa just buy it on the open market?

riddle me that if you will

161 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:16:46pm

re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist

Yo!

162 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:16:59pm

re: #160 engineer cat

ok, i suppose you mean this:

According to the Associated Press, in January 2006, 40 websites were offering cell phone numbers, unlisted numbers, and calling records for sale.[11] The AP story reported that operators of such websites insist they are not doing anything illegal because there is no specific prohibition against pretexting to obtain another person’s data unless it involves financial data (the latter would violate the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act). Subsequently, following an FTC sweep of these sites, about 20 reportedly discontinued offering cell phone records.[12]

i must say i’m shocked

but if this is the same information that was in the recent disclosures, then why didn’t the nsa just buy it on the open market?

riddle me that if you will

They got it from the market, but they had a FISA Groupon.

163 Lidane  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:17:25pm
164 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:18:11pm

re: #150 EPR-radar

Do you mean “modify” the 4th amendment or “render it null and void” (from #114)?

Of course the Patriot Act is intended to modify what is and isn’t allowable in terms of surveillance etc. The 4th amendment serves as a boundary condition that sets limits on that tinkering. The courts have been reviewing Patriot Act provisions in view of the 4th amendment practically since the days it was passed.

I’m opposed to the Patriot Act, and would like to see it repealed, but I don’t think it is credible to assert that it renders the 4th amendment “null and void”.

my rhetoric is hyperbolic, but the again what part of the 4th amendment is left untouched by the “patriot” act?

165 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:20:05pm

re: #164 engineer cat

my rhetoric is hyperbolic, but the again what part of the 4th amendment is left untouched by the “patriot” act?

Donate to the ACLU.

166 klys and whatnot  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:20:34pm

re: #160 engineer cat

ok, i suppose you mean this:

According to the Associated Press, in January 2006, 40 websites were offering cell phone numbers, unlisted numbers, and calling records for sale.[11] The AP story reported that operators of such websites insist they are not doing anything illegal because there is no specific prohibition against pretexting to obtain another person’s data unless it involves financial data (the latter would violate the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act). Subsequently, following an FTC sweep of these sites, about 20 reportedly discontinued offering cell phone records.[12]

i must say i’m shocked

but if this is the same information that was in the recent disclosures, then why didn’t the nsa just buy it on the open market?

riddle me that if you will

I think I’m very confused. The link I posted in #123 was to address your question as quoted in #123 and had nothing at all to do with sale of cell phone records but rather was regarding whether the telephone metadata required a search warrant - which it does not, merely a subpoena.

I should make it clear that I have not stated an opinion on what I think should be the law. I was merely trying to address what the current legal requirements actually are.

(Please feel free to make me ruler, though.)

167 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:24:04pm

re: #130 EPR-radar

And what the Feds are currently doing is extending this idea to a nationwide dragnet of metadata for all calls. This is a nontrivial expansion of scope compared to the itty bitty pen register of Smith v Maryland.

rft

168 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:27:33pm

re: #164 engineer cat

my rhetoric is hyperbolic, but the again what part of the 4th amendment is left untouched by the “patriot” act?

Hyperbole is good entertainment, and I’m fond of it myself, but it greatly weakens arguments.

For example, if I were interested in defending the Patriot Act, the claim that the Patriot Act renders the 4th amendment null and void is too easy to counter.

The fact that the Patriot Act does not on its face authorize arbitrary seizures by law enforcement suffices.

169 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:28:56pm

re: #166 klys and whatnot

I think I’m very confuse

well that makes two of us, but in my case it’s my normal state

:-)

i’ll reread what you said and see if i can figure out what’s going on…

170 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:29:40pm

re: #100 Gus

it’s because Republicans refuse to turn left after reaching 1st base

171 klys and whatnot  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:30:45pm

re: #169 engineer cat

well that makes two of us, but in my case it’s my normal state

:-)

i’ll reread what you said and see if i can figure out what’s going on…

I mean, I don’t support the Patriot Act. I do feel like some of the decisions that have been made infringe on what should be treated as private information. I’m not thrilled about the information coming out.

I just don’t have the energy to work up a whole lot of outrage about it this week.

172 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:34:51pm

re: #168 EPR-radar

Hyperbole is good entertainment, and I’m fond of it myself, but it greatly weakens arguments.

For example, if I were interested in defending the Patriot Act, the claim that the Patriot Act renders the 4th amendment null and void is too easy to counter.

The fact that the Patriot Act does not on its face authorize arbitrary seizures by law enforcement suffices.

fair enough, but as i understand it, the warrant is obtained from a special, secret court, and it seems, especially with the latest revelations, probable cause is not required - merely the possibility that some actionable information might be obtained by trolling the private data of all american citizens

to me, any difference between the current setup and arbitrary seizures has gotten pretty thin

173 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:37:19pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

That was then, this is now. The government needs these powers to sniff out terror plots. Such powers are not liked, but they are needed.

Funny how last night at this time you didn’t trust government to do the right thing about the enormous threat of climate change. Why not leave terrorism to “private industry” as you are so anxious to do elsewhere?

174 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:37:41pm

re: #172 engineer cat

fair enough, but as i understand it, the warrant is obtained from a special, secret court, and it seems, especially with the latest revelations, probable cause is not required - merely the possibility that some actionable information might be obtained by trolling the private data of all american citizens

to me, any difference between the current setup and arbitrary seizures has gotten pretty thin

FISA is for intelligence cases, and in those cases secrecy is generally required. If you make the fact you searched a terrorist’s phone records known to him without arresting him, he’ll go to ground, showing up in a nez city a year later with a new identity.

175 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:37:53pm

re: #172 engineer cat

fair enough, but as i understand it, the warrant is obtained from a special, secret court, and it seems, especially with the latest revelations, probable cause is not required - merely the possibility that some actionable information might be obtained by trolling the private data of all american citizens

to me, any difference between the current setup and arbitrary seizures has gotten pretty thin

Seizure would be a taking of property. No matter how intrusive the surveillance is (even as implemented in ways we don’t really know in detail), it is all categorically a search. Since no property is taken, it is impossible for it to be a seizure.

176 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:39:50pm

re: #170 piratedan

it’s because Republicans refuse to turn left after reaching 1st base

ZOMG!

You win fabulous prizes!

177 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:39:54pm

re: #173 bratwurst

Funny how last night at this time you didn’t trust government to do the right thing about the enormous threat of climate change. Why not leave terrorism to “private industry” as you are so anxious to do elsewhere?

National security is different from economic matters. Government may stink at owning industrial facilities, but it is the only thing that can wage anti-terrorist campaigns. There are a small number of things which private industry simply cannot do.

178 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:40:56pm

re: #176 Gus

ZOMG!

You win fabulous prizes!

feel free to retweet that if u feel its worthy

179 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:42:34pm

re: #172 engineer cat

fair enough, but as i understand it, the warrant is obtained from a special, secret court, and it seems, especially with the latest revelations, probable cause is not required - merely the possibility that some actionable information might be obtained by trolling the private data of all american citizens

to me, any difference between the current setup and arbitrary seizures has gotten pretty thin

NPR did a segment on the FISA court today—last year, of 1800+ requests, it turned down exactly 0. That sounds horrible, but in fact the court is not an on/off switch, and it mandated changes (“wirebrushing”) of all but 200 or so requests. It’s a negotiated, rather than adversarial, process.

180 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:44:07pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

National security is different from economic matters.

Climate change is as much of a security issue as an “economic matter”.

181 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:44:30pm

re: #175 EPR-radar

Seizure would be a taking of property. No matter how intrusive the surveillance is (even as implemented in ways we don’t really know in detail), it is all categorically a search. Since no property is taken, it is impossible for it to be a seizure.

i thought we were talking about arbitrary “seizure”, as it were, of private information. clearly, the gummint ain’t a-seizing mah stuff jest as yet

182 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:47:07pm

re: #178 piratedan

feel free to retweet that if u feel its worthy

183 EPR-radar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:49:12pm

re: #182 Gus

And the moderates that were capable of turning left at first base couldn’t do it at second base.

184 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:50:16pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

FISA is for intelligence cases, and in those cases secrecy is generally required. If you make the fact you searched a terrorist’s phone records known to him without arresting him, he’ll go to ground, showing up in a nez city a year later with a new identity.

as far as i can make out, you are making the case that we need to modify the 4th amendment - forever, i guess - because of some terrorist acts

to me, this is letting the terrorists win since they are then able to terrorize us into giving up some of our civil rights

where does it end?

but also, you seem to trust people in the government to use this increased latitude without abusing it

i don’t

185 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:52:00pm

i must perforce cut out for a bit until i reconnect w an electrical source…

186 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:55:26pm

Well, guess I shouldn’t be surprised that Bethesda spent months teasing Fallout 4, only to leave it out of their E3 appearance.

187 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 8:58:43pm

re: #183 EPR-radar

And the moderates that were capable of turning left at first base couldn’t do it at second base.

Riiiiiight.

188 darthstar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:00:38pm

Some awesome pics of fish in the Marianas Trench

myscienceacademy.org

Image: DPtU0.jpg
Image: Dragon-Fish.jpg
Image: FQcRh.jpg
Image: Goblin-Shark.jpg

189 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:01:57pm

re: #182 Gus

Haha ouch.

190 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:03:28pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Haha ouch.

From piratedan.

191 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:08:31pm

re: #188 darthstar

Some awesome pics of fish in the Marianas Trench

myscienceacademy.org

Image: DPtU0.jpg
Image: Dragon-Fish.jpg
Image: FQcRh.jpg
Image: Goblin-Shark.jpg

Those planning to visit Chicago this summer can learn more at the Bioluminescence exhibit visiting the Field Museum through September 8th. I’ve been to it twice, and it has a very good look at life in the ocean abyss.

192 Interesting Times  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:08:45pm

re: #188 darthstar

Some awesome pics of fish in the Marianas Trench

myscienceacademy.org

“Dumbo Octopus” looks like some post-Fukushima version of Pikachu o_O

193 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:09:30pm

re: #190 Gus

From piratedan.

Yeah I see. But also at that score.

194 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:10:11pm

re: #188 darthstar

Some awesome pics of fish in the Marianas Trench

myscienceacademy.org

Image: DPtU0.jpg
Image: Dragon-Fish.jpg
Image: FQcRh.jpg
Image: Goblin-Shark.jpg

This is too cool.

195 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:14:49pm

re: #188 darthstar

Fishermen off New Jersey have an encounter with a great white shark:

fixed.

196 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:15:12pm

re: #188 darthstar

Some awesome pics of fish in the Marianas Trench

myscienceacademy.org

Image: DPtU0.jpg
Image: Dragon-Fish.jpg
Image: FQcRh.jpg
Image: Goblin-Shark.jpg

Dumbo Octopus. Win.

197 Kragar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:18:56pm

re: #188 darthstar

The Blue Sea Slug

Image: T8tRQieqZV.jpg

198 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:20:20pm

re: #188 darthstar

Some awesome pics of fish in the Marianas Trench

myscienceacademy.org

Image: DPtU0.jpg
Image: Dragon-Fish.jpg
Image: FQcRh.jpg
Image: Goblin-Shark.jpg

Very cool. I love the dumbo octi.

199 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:20:35pm

re: #197 Kragar

The Blue Sea Slug

Image: T8tRQieqZV.jpg

Drone!

200 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:20:59pm

re: #198 Stanghazi

Very cool. I love the dumbo octi.

201 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:21:21pm

Byyyyooooooot.

202 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:23:38pm

Ah yes, The Last of Us, yet another game making me wish I had a PS3 right about now.

203 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:30:37pm

It’s like this autonomous bio unit. With eyes.

204 Kragar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:40:44pm

re: #199 Gus

Drone!

Image: tumblr_lizt5aj21o1qea8i1o1_500.jpg

205 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:41:20pm

re: #204 Kragar

Image: tumblr_lizt5aj21o1qea8i1o1_500.jpg

Almost micro sized.

206 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:41:34pm

re: #202 Targetpractice

This PS3 game looks interesting to me. It also stars Ellen Page.

Beyond Two Souls

Youtube Video

207 Kragar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:43:49pm

re: #205 Gus

Almost micro sized.

The easier to crawl into your ear and begin laying eggs in your brain.

208 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:44:29pm

re: #207 Kragar

The easier to crawl into your ear and begin laying eggs in your brain.

Yep. That’s how the aliens took over America.

209 Joanne  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:45:07pm

re: #207 Kragar

The easier to crawl into your ear and begin laying eggs in your brain.

GAK!!

210 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:50:06pm

re: #207 Kragar

The easier to crawl into your ear and begin laying eggs in your brain.

They wrap themselves around your cerebral cortex. This has the side effect of making one susceptible to suggestion.

//

211 Kragar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:52:27pm

re: #210 Targetpractice

They wrap themselves around your cerebral cortex. This has the side effect of making one susceptible to suggestion.

//

Image: Glauculus2_thumb.jpg

Ready to pounce, launching itself across the room to incapacitate a victim.

212 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:55:50pm

Electrical. Out first.
Next, pound surrounding barracks.
Pound the presidential palace.
In General Lee May’s word’s, “fry them.”
And from these ashes.
Victory.

Then, I woke up.

213 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:56:39pm

Gotta admit they came up with an interesting way in The Last of Us to portray the traditional zombie film. Problem is I already saw it before, only then it was called Vault 22.

214 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 9:59:41pm

A sad and hopeful picture, from Royal Gorge Park. The fire there rampaged through the park, destroying 48-52 Buildings, including the Carousel and the Tramway.

But you know what wasn’t destroyed?

The bridge.

Through the ruins and desolation of the fire, the Bridge stills stands, albeit with a few of the wooden timbers that make up the roadbed scorched or charred.

215 darthstar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:09:27pm

re: #200 Gus

Looks a bit like Pikachu

Image: Z0gEBTs.png

216 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:10:30pm

re: #214 ProTARDISLiberal

A sad and hopeful picture, from Royal Gorge Park. The fire there rampaged through the park, destroying 48-52 Buildings, including the Carousel and the Tramway.

But you know what wasn’t destroyed?

The bridge.

Through the ruins and desolation of the fire, the Bridge stills stands, albeit with a few of the wooden timbers that make up the roadbed scorched or charred.

Holy, smokes. Gotdamn, they got hit really bad.

217 darthstar  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:14:25pm

re: #214 ProTARDISLiberal

Holy shit.

218 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:19:20pm

re: #217 darthstar

Holy shit.

Record damage in CO. You should have seen Denver yesterday. Yuck, you could taste the smoke. Black hole sun thing going too.

219 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:22:31pm

re: #217 darthstar

This isn’t even the Black Forest fire.

That is down by Cañon City. At least 2-3 hours away, up the river from Pueblo.

Cañon City is fine, but the Royal Gorge Park was nearly completely destroyed.

But the Bridge still stands. That is the centerpiece of that park.

220 Weet  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:24:31pm

Since you posted it, I went ahead and read the Ellsberg interview transcript from the Bradblog. My take is that Ellsberg wants the Patriot Act talked about, and really knows nothing else about Snowflake. Also, and I am very sorry to say this out loud, I think Ellsberg may have gone daft. He said a few things that I consider odd, and one that I consider wacko:

“I think with another 9/11 there would be mass detentions and it wouldn’t be only Middle Easterners or Iranians or Arabs or Muslims and so forth. It would be people who support WikiLeaks, support Brad Friedman or Snowden. Such as me and, I presume, you. And they know that because, all right, we’re saying it on public radio, but supposing we hadn’t. There’s a lot of people who don’t have the access here to the public but they do talk to their friends on the phone or by email. And they’ll be picked up just as quickly as you or I.”

221 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:31:10pm

re: #219 ProTARDISLiberal

Here is Royal Gorge before the fire, in 2010.

222 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:33:36pm
223 Lidane  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:43:52pm

re: #170 piratedan

it’s because Republicans refuse to turn left after reaching 1st base

Image: wellplayed.png

224 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:46:28pm
225 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:50:13pm

re: #223 Lidane

tyvm, hope it brought a smile to a few faces….

226 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:52:53pm

If a neo-Nazi is condemning you…

227 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 10:59:11pm

re: #226 Gus

If a neo-Nazi is condemning you…

I don’t give Cactus Barbie much cred, but regardless of the cold blooded pragmatism behind the move, in the end, a lot of folks are going to get coverage that they otherwise would never receive. So that’s a net win. That this pisses off Mr. Papers Please is an added bonus. Maybe it will even split off a few more semi-sane R’s that still reside in the state from the total loon segment of the party (of which there are a healthy number)

228 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:21:53pm

re: #227 piratedan

I don’t give Cactus Barbie much cred, but regardless of the cold blooded pragmatism behind the move, in the end, a lot of folks are going to get coverage that they otherwise would never receive. So that’s a net win. That this pisses off Mr. Papers Please is an added bonus. Maybe it will even split off a few more semi-sane R’s that still reside in the state from the total loon segment of the party (of which there are a healthy number)

Arizona is full of elderly people and lots of people who work (sub) minimum-wage service jobs without benefits. She would be a fool not to expand Medicaid, but it goes to show that there is no compromising with the extreme right of the GOP: they are out to enforce ideological purity at all costs.

229 stabby  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:23:58pm

You can fast forward to the music:
Youtube Video

230 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:27:28pm

re: #228 Sol Berdinowitz

I hear ya Sol, I live it everyday down here in Tucson.

231 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:31:19pm

re: #230 piratedan

I hear ya Sol, I live it everyday down here in Tucson.

I graduated from U of A thirty years ago.

I had a $5,000 deductible health insurance plan that cost $50 a month, basically just so I would not go bankrupt if I got hit by a truck or something.

Did not matter much back then when I was young and healthy and only went to see a doctor when I needed to take a physical for a job interview or something.

232 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:36:23pm
233 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:38:52pm

re: #231 Sol Berdinowitz

well I have to say, one of Obama’s worst moves was drafting Napolitano into Homeland Security because she would have culled in the idiocy at large with her veto; with her gone, well lets just say that I don’t have the utmost respect for my fellow Arizonans that decided to return her to office over Terry Goddard. I’ve suspected that much of her legislative agenda is based on kickbacks from the private prison industry, namely fill up the jails and bill the government to keep ‘em locked up. All the while cutting staff at the Department of Corrections and screaming about headless bodies in the desert. SB1040 was a boondoggle for her as she and the rest of the R’s parlayed that fear thru the election season and reaped the benefits.

234 Gus  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:43:07pm
235 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:43:16pm

re: #233 piratedan

Have not lived in AZ since I left Flagstaff in 1988.

Dunno if I could manage living there again, all my favorite haunts along the Mexican border (Chirachauhau, Santa Rita and Dragoon Mountains) are all too dangerous to visit, the people have gone bat-shit dippy and you cannot even go out into the desert around Phoenix anymore without being surrounded by live-ammo recreational activities.

And on top of it, my sister an bro-in-law, two upstanding, middle-class, salt-of-the-Earth, work-ethic driven Middle Americans, had to declare bankruptcy last year over health care costs (sis had a bout with cancer, bro-in-law was in a car accident).

Shit like that should not happen in America.

236 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:51:49pm

well it still has all of the grandeur you could ever want but the politics are still problematic, we’re afloat in a sea of blue down here in Pima County but Phoenix is finally starting to show signs of breaking the death grip of the east valley controlling all of Maricopa’s politics. Flag and the nations are reliably blue but destitute with the ranchers mostly going red, especially in retirement havens like sun city, bullhead and yuma. The state rolled over for the realtors and invested the state money in real estate and when the crash hit it got REALLY bad. Then to cut their noses off to spite themselves, they passed SB1040 with the tacit understanding that they were shooting the tourism industry dead and pissing off it’s best international trading partner and these guys are supposed to be business savvy. People who could move did, people who couldn’t have started to organize, hence why Sheriff Joe is now getting pushback and how Pearce got recalled. Still a lot of work to do. The Dem party has to rebuild quite a bit and it’s hard to recruit against the tide of spiteful hate that you get when you try to shout down the motorized battalions of Faux News viewers who get their outrage and bigotry fix on a daily basis.

Hope things are better for you where you are and what your family has gone through isn’t just an Arizona story, it’s a national one.

237 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:54:26pm

Same sis and bro-in-law who went bankrupt over health care costs have Fox News on permanently all day long…

I left during the boom times, but even back then I could not understand how so much of the state’s economy could be based on building and selling tract homes with nothing else to back it up…

238 piratedan  Thu, Jun 13, 2013 11:59:37pm

give Fox credit, they give you easy platitudes and targets that are low hanging fruit and relentlessly deliver the message and agenda. I’m not one for condoning murder but there have been times where I dreamily contemplate being in a small room with Rupert Murdoch and a baseball bat and just as I finish, Roger Ailes and Rush Limbaugh come into the room. What is so scary is that none of those folks have convictions or ethics, this is nothing more than a means to an end of milking “the rubes”.

239 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:01:49am

Sleep

240 stabby  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:07:27am

re: #238 piratedan

Well there are factors beyond “milking the rubes”

There’s also malice
and stupidity.

If you have ever heard Ann Coulter in an unguarded moment, you realize that she’s one of the stupidest rubes on the planet herself. She drinks ALL of the kool aid she really knows less than nothing.

I don’t know to what extent the others have the same excuse, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

But you also have to be missing any positive empathy to buy the crap they believe. I say “positive empathy” because hostility is a kind of empathy - it’s a will to make other people suffer, and you have to know their feelings in order to enjoy their suffering. It’s unfortunately a natural state, animals do fight after all. These people seem to have plenty of that.

241 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:07:31am

re: #238 piratedan

give Fox credit, they give you easy platitudes and targets that are low hanging fruit and relentlessly deliver the message and agenda. I’m not one for condoning murder but there have been times where I dreamily contemplate being in a small room with Rupert Murdoch and a baseball bat and just as I finish, Roger Ailes and Rush Limbaugh come into the room. What is so scary is that none of those folks have convictions or ethics, this is nothing more than a means to an end of milking “the rubes”.

It is our own fault for thinking that news and information is the “product” and we listeners/viewers are “customers”.

Nothing could be farther from the truth: their product is advertising time, their customers are the firms seeking to hawk their products. The programming is just there to attract viewers and make the advertising time more attractive to potential buyers.

Once you understand that, you understand how and why they broadcast what they do. And whatever else you can say about Murdoch, Ailes and Limbaugh, they are highly successful businessmen.

242 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:15:57am

re: #240 stabby

re: #241 Sol Berdinowitz

one common trait that comes up with these folks is how “right” they are. They’re never wrong or mistaken about anything. I screw up at least three or four times a day, find it’s easier to learn from my mistakes, take ownership of the mistake and try to fix it if it can be fixed and then move on. You point out a failing or a mistake to them, and it’s incredibly rare to see them admit it and more likely it’s deflected as to someone else being responsible for “making” them be wrong. The amount of projection that these folks employ is maddening as well and their complete lack of understanding history or how government works and their delusions about how they are all self made folks who never received any help from any one as they ascended whatever social mountaintop that they currently inhabit. If they’re not well off, it’s all downplayed into comparisons against minorities and those are the people holding them back. I see it replayed over and over again.

243 stabby  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:23:31am

re: #242 piratedan

Good point, blame takes center stage in their personalities. Hating the poor, or blacks or immigrants or non-Christians may start with blaming them.

I hadn’t thought that avoiding responsibility themselves was a big part of it, but they certainly don’t care about OTHER people. Or perhaps they only care about a very small number of people.

244 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:28:32am

well it’s stuff like they’re owed their hoverrounds, don’t mess with my social security or my medicare but get government out of my life. They don’t see or understand that medicare IS the government, just like social security or the post office, but they already paid THEIR taxes, why should they put YOUR kid through school etc etc etc. No concept that we live in a society that as a whole is interdependent upon each other. There’s their family and their friends and everyone else is an outsider. The easy casual racism that is applied to anyone they don’t know personally.

245 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:29:07am

re: #242 piratedan

I am sure that the people at the top know better,but their job is to nail down a target demographic so they can sell advertising time to people who want to reach that group.

We still think back to the grat days of journalism when there were only three major networks who really did try to compete on the quality of the journalism they presented. That even entailed admitting errors.

Now they just want to stick their heads deeper into their niches. And admitting mistakes or inconsistencies is irrelevant, they are spreading a Higher Truth: that Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist sympathizer out to conficate your guns and institute secularist Sharia while forcing your daughter to be raped on Plan B or subjected to a mandatory late-term abortion if she does get pregnant.

246 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:31:41am

re: #245 Sol Berdinowitz

LOL, if he was guilty of half of what they accuse him of, we’d see nary a word of this stuff as they’d all be in work camps building new houses for drug using minorities

247 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 12:36:19am

re: #246 piratedan

LOL, if he was guilty of half of what they accuse him of, we’d see nary a word of this stuff as they’d all be in work camps building new houses for drug using minorities

That’s coming in his third term. He will declare Emergency Sharia Law as soon as Cruz/Palin are declared winners of the 2016 elections and shut down democracy forever.

248 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 1:36:02am

It seems that the Obam storm troopers ahve already kicked down the doors and arested everyone in on this thread…good thing I’m overseas…

249 freetoken  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 2:31:25am

re: #248 Sol Berdinowitz

It seems that the Obam storm troopers ahve already kicked down the doors and arested everyone in on this thread…good thing I’m overseas…

It was tough… tear gas, stun guns, and of course the high powered rifles.

But some of us lived to tell about.

Maybe I should catch the first flight out to HK?

250 freetoken  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 2:47:55am

Kicking around an idea for Page, but I think it’s all OBE by now: Al Mohler, of whom I named long ago “Mullah Mohler” as he is the head of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the same denomination that is the largest in the US, recently had on as his podcast as a guest Jonathan Last (writer for the Weekly Standard and independent author.)

Last is one of those worried about not having enough babies. Especially for those not in the lower class (ahem.) He’s also a fan of people like Steve Sailer.

Anyway, you’d think a denomination known for its origin as the pro-slavery Baptists would stay a thousand light years away from anyone tainted by racism, but no, not Mullah Mohler. He charges ahead and interviews Last and stokes the fear of not having enough babies, of women being too independent and being too liberal, and the like.

“Mullah” really is, btw, an accurate title for Mohler. Ok, so he’s not Muslim, but his function is the same as that of Mullahs (or Imams?) who also lead Islamic schools. And frankly Mohler’s beliefs are much more in tune (except for the Jesus-thing) with religious leaders in KSA or Afghanistan than the average American - Mohler is very backwards by Western standards, probably the most so for a very large denomination.

However, the interview was in early April and I think it’s all probably water under the bridge by now, old and forgotten in this Age of the Tweet.

As for Jonathan Last, when his latest book came out (I think in Feb) he got all the praise from the usual suspects (e.g., WSJ editors) and only the academic minded feminists took him to task. The book didn’t generate enough blowback that it ought to have gotten, perhaps because even though sales were good the subject just isn’t one of those hot tweetable items.

But, it’s all there - whining about the demise of white Christian America, and the normal targets are hit (feminists, academics, modernists, communism (really)) in the interview. But mostly women.

The SBC is by far the largest denomination of Christians in the US, and this is the guy who is in charge of what is taught to the seminarians that will fill their pulpits.

251 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 3:04:13am

re: #250 freetoken

I lived in Louisville during the time of the conservatives take-over of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. At one time, it was regarded as the premier school of moderate (perhaps even liberal) Baptist theology and discussion, with a well-regarded School of Social Work, from which two of my friends graduated with masters degrees. Then the cons gradually took over, with Mohler leading the charge if my memory is right. Moderates and “liberals” were forced to sign agreements to teach only the new party line, or “the door is over there.” Some really good scholars (including one of my friends) got burned in the process.

Now, the social work program is but a dim memory, and the SBTS is a rightwing bulwark of neocon talibanism, with Mohler again leading the charge.

That said, there are a couple of pentecostal megachurches in Louisville that make the SBTS seem liberal in comparison.

EDIT: I checked the wikipedia entry just now to refresh my memory. It doesn’t provide too many details about the take-over, but does remark that the seminary has fallen on hard times. Maybe Mohler’s hardline approach is not the best way to encourage donations.

252 freetoken  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 3:46:18am

re: #251 wheat-dogghazi

Yup:

In 1993, the seminary’s current president R. Albert Mohler, Jr. came into office re-affirming the Seminary’s historic, “Abstract of Principles,” which was part of the original charter of Southern created in 1858. The charter stated that every Professor who wishes to teach at Southern must agree to “teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down” and that “a departure” from the principles in the Abstract of Principles would be grounds for resignation or removal by the Trustees.[14]

That’s Mohler all right, trying to move back before 1860.

253 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 4:17:53am

re: #214 ProTARDISLiberal

A sad and hopeful picture, from Royal Gorge Park. The fire there rampaged through the park, destroying 48-52 Buildings, including the Carousel and the Tramway.

But you know what wasn’t destroyed?

The bridge.

Through the ruins and desolation of the fire, the Bridge stills stands, albeit with a few of the wooden timbers that make up the roadbed scorched or charred.

PROOF THAT FIRE CAN’T MELT STEEL!!1

/Troofer Moonbat Rosie O’Donnell

254 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 4:20:02am

re: #252 freetoken

Yup:

That’s Mohler all right, trying to move back before 1860.

While screaming that Southern Baptist churches should kick out the Boy Scouts for refusing to shun teh gey.

255 sattv4u2  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 4:37:48am

I hate Nazis

Especially Illinois Minnesota Nazis

apnews.myway.com

256 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 4:55:10am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

Hey Dark,

Since Jindal is an uncharasmatic nutjob whose record in Louisiana is one of pushing creationism, cronyism, and failure, and Rubio is an anti-gay weirdo whose party is rejecting him, who do you actually see as a GOP presidential potential in 2016?

I’m feeling like it might actually really be Rand Paul.

257 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 4:58:31am

re: #256 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Hey Dark,

Since Jindal is an uncharasmatic nutjob whose record in Louisiana is one of pushing creationism, cronyism, and failure, and Rubio is an anti-gay weirdo whose party is rejecting him, who do you actually see as a GOP presidential potential in 2016?

I’m feeling like it might actually really be Rand Paul.

Hillary has her fingers crossed.

258 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:09:36am

re: #257 Vicious Babushka

I would laugh so hard if it was Romney again or another superwealthy dude.

259 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:10:17am

re: #258 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I would laugh so hard if it was Romney again or another superwealthy dude.

Donald Trump
Jeb Bush

260 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:13:37am
261 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:23:05am

My state is goverened by absolute morons:

‘Merry Christmas’ bill allows religious holidays back into schools

Christmas is already on the minds of the governor and state lawmakers.

Gov. Rick Perry signed a bill into law Thursday, officially permitting certain religious items to be displayed during holidays at public schools.

House Bill 308 was co-sponsored by Senator Robert Nichols from East Texas. He said the legislation is a move to protect schools from lawsuits.

“It actually codifies in state law the findings of the Supreme Court,” Nichols said. “The hope is that it will reduce frivolous lawsuits to our schools and make our schools feel more comfortable celebrating traditional holidays.”

“It’s a shame that a bill like the one that I’m signing today is even required,” Perry said. “But I’m proud that we’re standing up for religious freedom in this state.”

Because this was the most important issue facing Texas today. WTF.

Just in time for Perry to go off and pander to the religious bigots at the Faith & Freedom Conference. Oh joy.

262 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:24:26am

re: #261 Lidane

Does that mean they can have a lot of Muslim stuff in the schools now?

263 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:25:38am

re: #262 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Does that mean they can have a lot of Muslim stuff in the schools now?

In theory. But we both know how well that would go over.

264 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:27:41am

Right on time, wingnuts are Derping about the cost of the announced POTUS visit to Africa. They would prefer to see him go in chains, belowdecks of a slave ship.

265 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:30:59am

hatchling alert.

266 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:31:12am

re: #261 Lidane

My state is goverened by absolute morons:

‘Merry Christmas’ bill allows religious holidays back into schools

Because this was the most important issue facing Texas today. WTF.

Just in time for Perry to go off and pander to the religious bigots at the Faith & Freedom Conference. Oh joy.

The legislation applies to all religions, allowing schools to display religious symbols as long as more than one religion is represented or if a religious scene is accompanied by a secular one.


The Micronesian virgin sacrifice tableaux should be a hit in middle school.

267 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:38:41am

Mornin’ everyone…it’s Friday, which means of course that Glenn Greenwald’s fifteen minutes of fame are up.

268 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:45:35am
269 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:48:23am

re: #256 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Perry might make another attempt. As will Santorum. And I think Santorum will have the edge this go-around on the crazy train express.

270 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:49:46am

Could someone explain to me how the health insurance for just my husband at his new job is around 90 dollars a month(45 bucks out of each paycheck) and to add myself and our kid makes it jump to….825 dollars a month???!!(412 a paycheck). That’s close to 25 percent of his total take home pay. WTF?

So now my son and I have to go into the market and try to find our own healthcare. I looked last night and we can get him a 5000 dollar deductible with a dental plan from bcbs of GA for around 100 bucks a month. If me and the husband get on his plan it’s still 450 a month. Holy crap. I have no idea what to do now. I don’t have any idea how to choose a plan that won’t suck or rip us off. I’m just having a total freakout that it’s cheaper to go into the market and buy insurance than it is to go through the group policy at the husband’s job. Any thoughts on where to look for something that’s worth more than the paper it’s printed on? We still have 6 months before the ACA exchanges kick in, I have no clue what to do now.

271 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:50:58am

re: #267 darthstar

Mornin’ everyone…it’s Friday, which means of course that Glenn Greenwald’s fifteen minutes of fame are up.

Okay…it’s not just a strong headline..Ed Bott rips Greenwald a new asshole…and yes, that makes me happy.

272 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:51:12am

re: #269 lawhawk

Perry might make another attempt. As will Santorum. And I think Santorum will have the edge this go-around on the crazy train express.

Santorum is the next in line. He came in second last time around, which would put him in the lead for 2016.

Scary thought.

273 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:52:19am

re: #267 darthstar

I guess that means it’s back to Benghazi!!!TY

274 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:53:31am

re: #270 A Mom Anon

That makes no sense at all. Our carrier (six years ago) charged about $175 for a single, and roughly 2x-3x that for family coverage, depending on which of several confusing plans you chose. (Humana, in case you’re curious).

275 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:54:23am

re: #274 wheat-dogghazi

I just sent you an email.

276 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:55:14am

A one man crime spree:

277 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:55:27am

re: #270 A Mom Anon

Could someone explain to me how the health insurance for just my husband at his new job is around 90 dollars a month(45 bucks out of each paycheck) and to add myself and our kid makes it jump to….825 dollars a month???!!(412 a paycheck). That’s close to 25 percent of his total take home pay. WTF?

So now my son and I have to go into the market and try to find our own healthcare. I looked last night and we can get him a 5000 dollar deductible with a dental plan from bcbs of GA for around 100 bucks a month. If me and the husband get on his plan it’s still 450 a month. Holy crap. I have no idea what to do now. I don’t have any idea how to choose a plan that won’t suck or rip us off. I’m just having a total freakout that it’s cheaper to go into the market and buy insurance than it is to go through the group policy at the husband’s job. Any thoughts on where to look for something that’s worth more than the paper it’s printed on? We still have 6 months before the ACA exchanges kick in, I have no clue what to do now.

It sounds like the employer is paying the majority of the coverage for your husband with some coming from him, but having you pay for all the coverage for you and your son.

278 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:58:20am

re: #275 Sionainn

OK

279 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 5:59:40am

re: #277 Sionainn

It sounds like the employer is paying the majority of the coverage for your husband with some coming from him, but having you pay for all the coverage for you and your son.

That’s what I was thinking. Sounds like an employer who won’t cover an employee’s spouse or children on the company policy.

280 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:02:44am
281 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:03:22am

re: #277 Sionainn

Yes, but why the hell is it cheaper for us to buy insurance as individuals on our own? The insurance my husband is getting isn’t some gold plated health plan, though it does only have a 1500 dollar deductible(for him, for the family the deductible is 4500). Other than that it’s nothing special. I have no idea how to pick something that’s not a complete disaster either. We’ve already been without any insurance since March, I’ve cancelled dental and doctor appts as it is.

Crap.

282 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:05:08am

Okay…one more.

283 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:06:10am
284 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:07:02am

Wow.

285 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:07:47am

re: #276 lawhawk

A one man crime spree:

New job opening for someone not afraid to do a little wet work for a drug cartel.

286 kirkspencer  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:07:55am

re: #272 Lidane

Santorum is the next in line. He came in second last time around, which would put him in the lead for 2016.

Scary thought.

Please keep in mind that when all the counting was done in 2008 Romney was third, not second. Huckabee was second.

287 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:08:06am
288 compound_Idaho  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:08:45am

re: #270 A Mom Anon

ehealthinsurance.com

Has some handy tools for what ifs

289 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:09:44am

Remember when Rand Paul spoke to Howard University students and hilarity ensued?

290 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:11:04am

re: #270 A Mom Anon

That seems way out of line for costs. To go from $90 for a single to $825 to family coverage looks like they’re doing something seriously wrong. I would definitely check with the senior HR person there to confirm that the numbers are what they are claiming.

291 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:13:48am

re: #285 darthstar

Paging Anton Chigurh

292 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:15:07am

re: #275 Sionainn

I don’t see one.

293 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:15:07am

re: #291 lawhawk

Paging Anton Chigurh

That guy was fucking scary.

294 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:18:44am

re: #284 Lidane

Wow.

Send his ass back to the Ukraine.

295 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:19:12am

re: #294 Vicious Babushka

Send his ass back to the Ukraine.

In the Ukraine he’ll be hailed as a national hero.

Seriously.

296 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:21:22am

re: #295 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

In the Ukraine he’ll be hailed as a national hero.

Seriously.

Did I say Ukraine? I meant Poland. Or let’s do like King Solomon and send half of him to Poland and half to Israel.

297 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:22:07am

re: #294 Vicious Babushka

Send his ass back to the Ukraine.

He’s old. Just put him in a boxcar and send him across the country on a train…in January.

298 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:23:57am

re: #297 darthstar

He’s old. Just put him in a boxcar and send him across the country on a train…in January.

Put him in a senior citizens home. In Black Forest, Colorado.

299 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:24:52am

re: #298 Vicious Babushka

Put him in a senior citizens home. In Black Forest, Colorado.

Three days ago that would have worked.

300 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:26:41am
301 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:27:17am

re: #290 lawhawk

The only thing I can figure is that they made a mistake and told us the amount taken out of each paycheck is really for the entire month, but then that seems low. With the dental and vision, the papers say x amount per paycheck. The actual health insurance numbers don’t say that. My husband won’t call the HR people either, why I have no idea. Maybe he’s scared to ask. I’m now getting aggravated with the whole mess. They did say they only pay for his insurance and not ours, I’m just freaked out that it’s actually cheaper for us to go into the market place and find something similar for way less money, even with the same insurance company. It makes no sense at all.

302 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:28:11am

re: #292 wheat-dogghazi

I don’t see one.

I went to the your site and found a contact me thing. I guess it didn’t work.

I have a question about what kind of converter my husband needs for his trip to China in a little over a week to charge his devices. It looks confusing on what exactly is needed. Can you help me out?

303 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:28:34am

re: #284 Lidane

Not the first time that someone managed to get through the screening after WWII to enter the US. Deportation is a strong possibility, and he could face charges in Germany and/or Poland, where the atrocities involving his unit occurred.

Deportation to Ukraine is unlikely since he’d be welcomed as a hero. Yeah, that’s mind boggling, but there are people who think those who engaged in mass murder are worthy of being hailed heroes.

304 sattv4u2  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:29:51am

re: #287 Dr. Matt

littlegreenfootballs.com

305 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:32:57am

TEH SNOWDEN BUTTHURT COMMENCES

306 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:33:46am
307 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:34:10am

re: #302 Sionainn

I went to the your site and found a contact me thing. I guess it didn’t work.

I have a question about what kind of converter my husband needs for his trip to China in a little over a week to charge his devices. It looks confusing on what exactly is needed. Can you help me out?

I’ll need to check that contact form. It should have forwarded to my gmail acct right away.

Where in China? Hong Kong and Macao outlets have strangely angled sockets, almost like 220V outlets here in the States. Mainland sockets are somewhat more conventional. His chargers should plug right in the wall without need for an adapter. Most electronic devices’ chargers are dual voltage already, so he won’t need a voltage converter. Double check to make sure they say something like 120-240VAC.

China, HK and Macao are all 220-240 VAC 50 Hz. Only the sockets and plugs are different.

308 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:36:04am

He’s going to be in Tengchong and Kunming.

309 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:37:32am

re: #306 Vicious Babushka

Like that’s a surprise. And such a waste. It never needed to happen. When are people going to figure out that some rules are needed to stop people from being greedy and stupid? Companies simply do not give a rat’s ass 99 percent of the time who gets hurt as a result of their negligence. How many times does this crap have to happen all over the world, let alone here, before people wake the hell up and demand better?

310 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:38:46am

re: #264 Vicious Babushka

There’s a front page article in the “liberal” Washington Post this a.m. On.The.Front.Page.

There’s also this statement, which I’ll quote for you:

The elaborate security provisions — which will cost the government tens of millions of dollars — are outlined in a confidential internal planning document obtained by The Washington Post. While the preparations appear to be in line with similar travels in the past, the document offers an unusual glimpse into the colossal efforts to protect the U.S. commander in chief on trips abroad.

IOW, this is pretty much standard operating procedure for presidential trips, but we’re making a big deal out of it in this case because.

311 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:39:06am
312 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:39:40am

re: #306 Vicious Babushka

Freedom. Less Government. Don’t Tread On Me.

313 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:40:04am

Your Daily Derp from Prudence, Teh Dumbest Lady on Teh Twitters:

314 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:40:06am

re: #306 Vicious Babushka

Intrusive gubmint!

///

315 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:44:23am

re: #305 Vicious Babushka

TEH SNOWDEN BUTTHURT COMMENCES

It just eats at them that Snowden is not the guy they were hoping for. They wanted him to be another Ellsberg, but he’s making Assange look selfless.

316 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:44:41am

re: #308 Sionainn

He’s going to be in Tengchong and Kunming.

The mainland, then. Here’s a photo so you can see what my wall outlets are like.
Image: plug.jpg

The top half accepts standard US-style two-prong plugs. The bottom takes the three-prong arrangement common in China, HK and Macao. If he has a 3-prong (grounded) US plug, he’ll need an adapter.

Both those cities are in Yunnan, which has a very pleasant, spring-like climate year round.

317 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:46:45am

re: #316 wheat-dogghazi

The mainland, then. Here’s a photo so you can see what my wall outlets are like.
Image: plug.jpg

The top half accepts standard US-style two-prong plugs. The bottom takes the three-prong arrangement common in China, HK and Macao. If he has a 3-prong (grounded) US plug, he’ll need an adapter.

Both those cities are in Yunnan, which has a very pleasant, spring-like climate year round.

Thanks so much for the information! He’s very excited to have this opportunity to go to China.

318 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:49:10am

Just once, it would be nice if Bank of America could decide what my bank balance is on a given day.

The other day my checking account had one amount so I budgeted my groceries accordingly. Today, after my paycheck cleared, I looked at my statement. Now they’re saying that my balance the other day was higher.

What. The. FUCK. I’m tired of having to check my bank statements every damn day to see how much money they’ve decided I have. I guess keeping track of my own transactions is meaningless.

/rant off

319 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:50:04am

re: #318 Lidane

Just once, it would be nice if Bank of America could decide what my bank balance is on a given day.

The other day my checking account had one amount so I budgeted my groceries accordingly. Today, after my paycheck cleared, I looked at my statement. Now they’re saying that my balance the other day was higher.

What. The. FUCK. I’m tired of having to check my bank statements every damn day to see how much money they’ve decided I have. I guess keeping track of my own transactions is meaningless.

/rant off

Set up an online account to track all your transactions.

320 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:51:23am

re: #319 Vicious Babushka

Set up an online account to track all your transactions.

I’m going to have to do that. I can’t trust BoA’s online account statements for shit, since my balance seems to change depending on when they decide a transaction took place. WTF.

321 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:51:54am

re: #198 Stanghazi

Very cool. I love the dumbo octi.

Looks like Picachu! (I love Picachu!)

322 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:51:56am

re: #318 Lidane

Switch to alliant credit union.

323 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:52:21am

re: #318 Lidane

Just once, it would be nice if Bank of America could decide what my bank balance is on a given day.

The other day my checking account had one amount so I budgeted my groceries accordingly. Today, after my paycheck cleared, I looked at my statement. Now they’re saying that my balance the other day was higher.

What. The. FUCK. I’m tired of having to check my bank statements every damn day to see how much money they’ve decided I have. I guess keeping track of my own transactions is meaningless.

/rant off

Change banks. Bank of America is teh debul.

324 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:53:12am

re: #215 darthstar

Looks a bit like Pikachu

Image: Z0gEBTs.png

Damn! Beat me to it!

325 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:53:26am

re: #317 Sionainn

Hope he enjoys it! He’ll get a much better impression of China in Yunnan than from the big city tourist meccas.

Your email didn’t come yet. Are you sure you typed it correctly? There’s no form there, just a lazy ass “copy this and replace the words with symbols” sentence.

326 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:54:44am

But speaking of fan clubs, it seems that Snowden’s is growing…in China.

China Newspaper: Snowden Could Be Useful to China

327 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:55:30am

re: #224 Gus

Nom nom nom…the taste of a party eating its own.

328 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:57:48am

re: #234 Gus

Because of how tightly the US and UK are, I wonder if he was able to get documents affecting UK operations.

329 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:58:17am

re: #325 wheat-dogghazi

Hope he enjoys it! He’ll get a much better impression of China in Yunnan than from the big city tourist meccas.

Your email didn’t come yet. Are you sure you typed it correctly? There’s no form there, just a lazy ass “copy this and replace the words with symbols” sentence.

I copied the address and changed the words to symbols so there was no chance of mistyping the address. I just checked it again and it looks like the “at” and “dot” are in the correct place. Weird.

330 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 6:59:30am

re: #326 Targetpractice

The Global Times is a Communist Party rag, with a jingoistic bent. If they had their way, China would already own half of Japan, Vietnam and maybe Korea, too. I’m still predicting cooler heads in Beijing will cut their losses, and send Wonderboy back to the USA.

331 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:00:53am

re: #329 Sionainn

Well, I have gmail set up to siphon mail from that POP account, so it may still be flying around teh Intertubes. China throttles Google services something fierce.

332 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:02:16am

re: #330 wheat-dogghazi

The Global Times is a Communist Party rag, with a jingoistic bent. If they had their way, China would already own half of Japan, Vietnam and maybe Korea, too. I’m still predicting cooler heads in Beijing will cut their losses, and send Wonderboy back to the USA.

Yeah, I think in the end any potential intelligence gain will be outweighed by the diplomatic shitstorm for attempting to attain it.

333 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:02:30am

Peggy haz a sad:


I’m sure she felt the same way when Dubya was POTUS. *cough*

334 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:04:14am

Because apparently, lack of ready access to Plan B was the only thing holding fathers back from fucking their daughters:

335 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:06:51am

re: #334 Lidane

Because apparently, lack of ready access to Plan B was the only thing holding fathers back from fucking their daughters:

*facepalm*

336 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:10:09am

Wisconsin veterans groups object to limit on property tax credit
Proposal was approved by Wisconsin Legislature’s budgeting committee

Wisconsin veterans groups are sharply criticizing a move by lawmakers to curtail and strip disabled veterans of property tax credit benefits.

The state provides a refundable income tax credit for the property taxes paid on principal dwellings by veterans who are 100% disabled and their surviving spouses. Spouses of veterans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan also receive the credit if they don’t remarry.

Last week the Joint Finance Committee voted to limit the amount of property taxes to be reimbursed to $2,500 a year. The committee also created a means test phase-out, so that if the income of 100% disabled veterans exceeds a certain amount, they will be dropped from the property tax credit program. This also would apply to their surviving spouses and spouses of Wisconsin service members killed in action.

Disabled American Veterans state legislative director Al Labelle called the committee’s action appalling.

“Apparently some committee members feel the sacrifices made by severely wounded, injured and ill veterans are just another budget item,” Labelle said.

Wisconsin GOP making new friends.

337 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:10:36am

Holy crap I am STILL getting calls from recruiters for a DoD contract job that involves my skill set. It’s been more than a dozen calls since Tuesday.

338 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:11:30am

Yes but Jeb: most immigrants are not White.

339 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:16:52am

DERP

340 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:17:10am

re: #337 Vicious Babushka

Wow what a crappy week. ;)

341 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:18:12am

re: #340 Amory Blaine

Wow what a crappy week. ;)

Why don’t they call some unemployed people? I have heard that there are a few of them in this country.

342 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:20:47am

re: #341 Vicious Babushka

Employers have taken to going after those already employed, rather than those out of work because they think that there’s a reason the unemployed are… well… unemployed.

Gaps in employment history are considered suspect.

Etc.

343 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:22:51am

re: #342 lawhawk

Employers have taken to going after those already employed, rather than those out of work because they think that there’s a reason the unemployed are… well… unemployed.

Gaps in employment history are considered suspect.

Etc.

I actually had a recruiter ask me “Why is there a gap in your resume between 3/1987 and 9/1987?”

I, uh, I…I HAD A BABY!!

344 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:24:43am
345 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:28:05am

So, media outlets, including the NYT are reporting the Iranian elections as though the Iranians think this will be some kind of rebuke of the US.

Iranians are indeed going to the polls. They will likely vote in significant numbers.

But they will choose from candidates that the Guardian Council vets. Former Presidents, including Mousavi, were excluded from the ballot because their views didn’t mesh with the Mullahs. Everyone running had to conform to a narrow viewpoint offered by the Guardian Council. Out of hundreds of potential candidates, only six were allowed.

They will not allow a repeat of the last election debacle in 2009, where Mousavi and reformers thought they had the election stolen from them by Ahmadinejad, the mullahs, and Khameni. The ensuing crackdown was brutal, and the regime undertook measures to make sure there was no repeat, including detentions, arrests, and changes to university schedules.

This is a highly orchestrated election to maintain a veneer that the public has a say in the government, but in reality the power remains focused in the hands of the Supreme Leader and the Guardian Council, which can trump what goes on in the Parliament and who can use the President as a sounding board for their own views.

Even Ahmadinejad tried to break out of that role and was rebuffed. The economic mess wont go away with a new President; it would take a wholesale rebuke of the nuclear program and liberalization of the economy to make that happen. And all the candidates aren’t going in that direction. They’re only addressing the economy around the fringes and all support Iran’s right to unfettered nuclear proliferation.

346 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:28:10am

re: #344 Lidane

Can’t be, I got wingnuts telling me every day that the media’s covering for Obama.

347 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:29:11am

Good morning lizards!

348 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:31:16am

re: #346 Targetpractice

The media exists in a state of quantum flux until the wingnuts determine what they are.

Duh.

/ just in case

349 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:31:23am

re: #269 lawhawk

Perry might make another attempt. As will Santorum. And I think Santorum will have the edge this go-around on the crazy train express.

Agreed on Santorum. He actually did better the last go round than was allowed, apparently. Didn’t he win a couple of primaries that were too close to initially report and then went from one loser to another, finally settling on, I think Ron Paul, when it was much later reported that Santorum won? Perhaps my memory is fading.

350 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:31:43am

Assembly passes 3 bills restricting abortion

In a debate that trod on some of society’s most charged issues, the Assembly on Thursday passed three bills restricting abortion along with three more on domestic violence, a day after the Senate passed one of the abortion bills in a chaotic session.

With all Republicans voting in favor and all Democrats against, the Assembly approved the abortion measures, sending one to Gov. Scott Walker and the other two to the Senate.

Lawmakers shared stories from their own lives: of love, but also of rape; of healthy children and grandchildren, but also of stillbirths.

The Assembly also passed on a voice vote three domestic violence-related bills in the aftermath of a shooting last year at the Azana Salon & Spa in Brookfield.

The abortion bill, which advanced on a 56-39 vote, now goes to Walker — who has said he will sign it. It would require women seeking the procedure to get an ultrasound and require doctors performing them to have hospital admitting privileges. The two remaining bills would outlaw abortions meant to choose the sex of a fetus and ban the use of taxpayer money to cover abortions in public employees’ health insurance plans and free religious groups from having to provide contraception in their employee health plans.

351 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:31:44am

Santa Monica gunman wrote apology, was denied weapon by state

Santa Monica police said Thursday night that the gunman who killed five people last week had been denied a firearm in 2011.

The revelation raises more questions about how John Zawahri got the semi-authomatic weapon he used in the attack.

Law enforcement sources told The Times Wednesday that the weapon was put together from various parts, possibly in an attempt to circumvent the state’s restrictions on such guns.

While certain types of AR-15-style rifles are banned in California, it’s legal to purchase parts that can be used to assemble and customize the guns. Santa Monica police have said Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style gun during the attack and was also carrying a .44-caliber handgun.

The sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case was ongoing, said detectives are still trying to figure out how the gun was put together and whether Zawahri obtained it whole or assembled it himself.

352 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:33:28am

re: #270 A Mom Anon

Could someone explain to me how the health insurance for just my husband at his new job is around 90 dollars a month(45 bucks out of each paycheck) and to add myself and our kid makes it jump to….825 dollars a month???!!(412 a paycheck). That’s close to 25 percent of his total take home pay. WTF?

So now my son and I have to go into the market and try to find our own healthcare. I looked last night and we can get him a 5000 dollar deductible with a dental plan from bcbs of GA for around 100 bucks a month. If me and the husband get on his plan it’s still 450 a month. Holy crap. I have no idea what to do now. I don’t have any idea how to choose a plan that won’t suck or rip us off. I’m just having a total freakout that it’s cheaper to go into the market and buy insurance than it is to go through the group policy at the husband’s job. Any thoughts on where to look for something that’s worth more than the paper it’s printed on? We still have 6 months before the ACA exchanges kick in, I have no clue what to do now.

Be sure to check what they are offering for coverage. Think of Allstate who now offers basic coverages that, while you might have comprehensive insurance, they won’t cover a tree falling on your car.

It’s in the details. I haven’t gone to the exchange at the White House site, did it not offer any information on coverage and what you would get for that $100 a month?

353 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:35:46am

re: #329 Sionainn

This is bugging me. I sent an email to myself from gmail, and it popped through almost instantly. What’s your email domain? Maybe spamassassin is blocking it. I’ll recheck the mail queue to be sure. I just enabled “show email” here so you can try again. Check your mailbox to see if you got an authentication email reply. I use that to reduce spammers.

354 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:37:22am

re: #350 Amory Blaine

Assembly passes 3 bills restricting abortion

Rebranding!

///

355 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:40:28am

Greenwald:

I haven’t been able to write this week here because I’ve been participating in the debate over the fallout from last week’s NSA stories, and because we are very busy working on and writing the next series of stories that will begin appearing very shortly.

“participating in the debate over the fallout”…is that what you call it, Glenn?

356 kirkspencer  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:43:49am

re: #341 Vicious Babushka

Why don’t they call some unemployed people? I have heard that there are a few of them in this country.

The assumption is that those not working have something wrong with them; it’s a form of darwinism.

Unfortunately as our businesses are able to do more things with fewer people it becomes a vicious cycle.

357 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:44:33am

re: #305 Vicious Babushka

TEH SNOWDEN BUTTHURT COMMENCES

“Teh media allies!”

358 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:45:35am

Farm where we get our vegetables set up a night time wildlife cam. I’m guessing some of the animals pretty much figured out there was a camera.

Image: pnfarm.png


potreronuevofarm.org

359 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:45:54am

re: #355 darthstar

Greenwald:

“participating in the debate over the fallout”…is that what you call it, Glenn?

Yes. Because The Guardian is neutral and non-partisan.

360 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:45:55am

Here is a disturbing video of our WI GOP dominated Senate.

Youtube Video

When Lazich completed her speech, Senate Democrats attempted to extend the debate but were met with shouting from Senate President Mike Ellis (R), who demanded an immediate vote. It was then that things descended into chaos.

“It’s non-debatable! Call the roll!” he shouted. “You’re out of order!”

361 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:47:18am

re: #360 Amory Blaine

Here is a disturbing video of our WI GOP dominated Senate.

[Embedded content]

How petty dictator like …

362 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:48:21am

re: #360 Amory Blaine

Ellis was literally frothing at the mouth. Fascism is hard, I guess.

363 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:48:59am

re: #359 Gus

And debate apparently doesn’t extend to folks like Charles who have been blocked because they ask uncomfortable questions or raise doubts about the veracity of the claims being made.

364 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:50:13am

re: #350 Amory Blaine

Focused like a laser beam on the economy.

365 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:51:24am

re: #352 Joanne

The exchanges aren’t set up for GA yet. At least I can’t find anything. They have until Oct 1 to set up enrollment and then nothing takes effect until 1/1/14.

366 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:54:25am

re: #360 Amory Blaine

NON-DEBATABLE!!!

Freedom. //

367 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:55:23am
368 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 7:59:37am

re: #323 Sionainn

Change banks. Bank of America is teh debul.

Well, Chase is teh debul, too, but at least their handling of my money is right on.

369 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:02:06am

re: #336 Amory Blaine

Wisconsin veterans groups object to limit on property tax credit
Proposal was approved by Wisconsin Legislature’s budgeting committee

Wisconsin GOP making new friends.

Well they have to fund their tax cuts for millionaires and corporations some how, don’t they?

370 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:02:26am

re: #337 Vicious Babushka

Holy crap I am STILL getting calls from recruiters for a DoD contract job that involves my skill set. It’s been more than a dozen calls since Tuesday.

$120/hr!

371 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:03:22am

re: #370 Joanne

$120/hr!

Insist on being called “Cap’n” and everyone has to look at pictures of her grandkids.

372 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:03:36am
373 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:06:49am

U.S. To Provide Military Support To Opposition In Syria

The Obama administration has decided to send military aid to the rebels in Syria. The decision was announced after the administration said it had concluded, with high confidence, that the Assad regime has used chemical weapons on multiple occasions over the past few months.

374 alpuz  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:09:06am

re: #360 Amory Blaine

Lazich is freakin’ nuts. Like Bachmann nuts.

I was at the bar at Inn on the Park one night when Ellis walked in. The place was packed with Teamsters. I asked the bartender to turn on the Ed Schultz show. She obliged & he bolted.

He’s a tool.

375 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:09:26am
376 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:10:43am

re: #360 Amory Blaine

Here is a disturbing video of our WI GOP dominated Senate.

Mary Lazich’s screed was full of nothing but lies. Plus she kept alluding to how “cold” the abortion environment was. If her concern is how “cold” the environment is shouldn’t she support a more warm and less judgmental environment for patients?

377 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:12:22am

Hah. Somethingawful wanted to do an article on the creepy dudes getting off on Snowden’s girlfriend, but they didn’t want to add to the badness by referencing her name or her pictures.

So they did the article, replacing her name with “Theo Cosby” and the pictures with pictures of Theo Cosby.

somethingawful.com

Great article that really nails the creepiness of making her part of the story, and congrats on them finding a way to report on it without furthering the exploitation of the girl.

378 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:12:40am

I wonder if this story is due to go sideways on us… as we morph from Snowden being a Libertarian man of ethical convictions (a GG protege or brother in arms, so to speak) to simply being a guy who saw a chance for notoriety and cashing out to the highest bidder.

All of the Libertarian Man of Moral/Ethical Fiber stuff played for a while before we found out where Snowden went to and now that he’s there, his actions don’t exactly mesh with someone who’s naively baring his soul because his country isn’t what he thought it was. There’s no martyrdom going on here and not a whole boatload of self sacrifice being witnessed.

This story has steadily moved away from from “OMG what is our country doing to its citizens” to “what has this guy told the Chinese about our counter terrorism data collection infrastructure means and capabilities”. The first has The Guardian and GG dreaming of Pulitzers and having GG’s personal agenda vindicated. The second makes him look like an easily manipulated tools. Perhaps there’s some nefarious ebil government star chamber spin involved here yet the sources that are chipping away from the primary framing aren’t exactly sources that you would expect to be working in conjunction against GG’s wishes.

Funny how we haven’t heard from Snowden’s family yet proclaiming his innocence or that their boy is simply misunderstood.

379 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:15:58am

re: #376 Amory Blaine

Mary Lazich’s screed was full of nothing but lies. Plus she kept alluding to how “cold” the abortion environment was. If her concern is how “cold” the environment is shouldn’t she support a more warm and less judgmental environment for patients?

It doesn’t work that way. Not for them, at least.

380 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:17:01am

re: #376 Amory Blaine

Mary Lasich’s screed was full of nothing but lies. Plus she kept alluding to how “cold” the abortion environment was. If her concern is how “cold” the environment is shouldn’t she support a more warm and less judgmental environment for patients?

Real love is helping people realized how depraved they are, making them feel crippling guilt, and helping them be saved.

So I was going to write that in a parodic manner in the wingnut font, but then it occurred to me that I know actual institutions and individuals that believe this.

381 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:18:10am

re: #353 wheat-dogghazi

This is bugging me. I sent an email to myself from gmail, and it popped through almost instantly. What’s your email domain? Maybe spamassassin is blocking it. I’ll recheck the mail queue to be sure. I just enabled “show email” here so you can try again. Check your mailbox to see if you got an authentication email reply. I use that to reduce spammers.

I use gmail. Try emailing me and then I’ll see if I can email you.

382 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:19:44am
383 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:20:47am

re: #382 Gus

“We need less government except where we need more government, like in fighting teh gay and abortionz and birth control pills.”

/

384 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:21:26am

The CO wildfires continue spreading and causing untold damage and misery for all those affected. With wildfires an annual occurrence and damage to property and loss of life an all too common problem, shouldn’t states consider changing their building codes and zoning laws to make the structures more fire resistant, up to and including rules about fire breaks, making structures more fire resistant, and requiring brush to be cleared on a regular basis.

Structures that have interior and/or exterior sprinklers and fire-resistant roofs and siding are less likely to get burned to the ground than other structures. Having landscaping that is set away from the buildings and less likely to be burned will likewise reduce the spread of the fires and the damage done.

385 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:22:17am
386 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:22:45am

re: #382 Gus

I wonder if the ex-Mrs. Sanford is there?

/

387 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:23:23am

re: #386 Bulworth

I wonder if the ex-Mrs. Sanford is there?

/

Meet the Republican Party.

388 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:24:02am

re: #368 Joanne

Well, Chase is teh debul, too, but at least their handling of my money is right on.

I despise Bank of America and Wells Fargo.

389 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:25:26am

re: #381 Sionainn

I use gmail. Try emailing me and then I’ll see if I can email you.

If you go to my avatar, I put my email address in there…just take off the http stuff. For some reason, the “show email” box doesn’t work for me.

390 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:25:38am

re: #384 lawhawk

get your evil government regulation out of my house and off my property, then put it back into my neighbor’s bedroom where it belongs!

391 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:26:05am
393 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:27:17am

re: #385 Gus

It is not for we atheists, seculars, radical Islams, academics, Leftist Elites in our Coastal Enclaves, Episcopalians, and Democrats, to question our moral betters in God’s Own Party.

//

394 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:27:19am

re: #391 Gus

There is always one in the crowd!

395 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:27:31am

re: #389 Sionainn

If you go to my avatar, I put my email address in there…just take off the http stuff. For some reason, the “show email” box doesn’t work for me.

Got it. I had the same problem with the “show email” box. Charles?

396 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:27:36am

re: #378 piratedan

Now that you mention it, I am rather shocked that no one has heard from his parents or family. Maybe I missed it, but this seems really unusual.

Of course his poor girlfriend, whom I feel nothing but sadness for, is stuck in the limelight for his actions. She’s splashed across the web as some stripper slut and it’s pretty fucking awful. Was she involved in any of this? Leave the poor girl alone.

397 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:27:40am

re: #375 NJDhockeyfan

On a related note, here’s a way to ensure that a man will never forget his anniversary again:

Remember Rings- Never Forget an Anniversary!

The Remember RingTM utilizes patent pending Hot SpotTM technology to deliver a reminder that it’s “That time of the year again!”

24 hours before your special day, the Hot SpotTM on the interior surface of your Remember RingTM will warm to 120º F for approximately 10 seconds, and continue to warm up every hour, on the hour, all day long!

Hot enough to cause discomfort but not hot enough to burn-the Remember RingTM is impossible to ignore!

Talk about a hunk of burning love. Hehe.

398 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:28:04am
399 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:28:39am

re: #382 Gus

Guess we should all just give up and go hike the Appalachian Trail, then.

400 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:29:49am

re: #381 Sionainn

I use gmail. Try emailing me and then I’ll see if I can email you.

Gmail is buggy as hell. I just bought some furniture and it took 12 weeks to manufacture and the sales guy kept trying to get a hold of me and Gmail puked on his email numerous times. Thankfully he had my Yahoo email (which I am trying to go away from since Yahoo does not play nice on an iPhone any longer - and I hate their re-do, bah) so he was able to reach me.

All that to say that Gmail is hardly All That.

401 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:30:14am

re: #391 Gus

Time to scratch “Tehran” off my vacation list.

/

402 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:30:36am

re: #382 Gus

That Sandford is there tells you all you need to know about this conference.

403 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:31:15am

re: #396 Joanne

my thoughts too, isn’t modus operandus of the free press to spread out like locusts on a story like this

404 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:32:52am

re: #402 Joanne

he’s probably just warming up for keynote speaker David Vitter

405 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:33:53am
406 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:34:38am

re: #404 piratedan

You know, these Faithful, Patriotic, Severely Conservative wingnuts just don’t have enough of these echo-chamber conferences.

//

407 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:35:33am

re: #395 wheat-dogghazi

Got it. I had the same problem with the “show email” box. Charles?

I got the verification thing this time around. Did you receive my email?

408 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:36:55am

re: #400 Joanne

I’m finding the opposite. Yahoo is buggy and kludgy, particularly in FF or Chrome, but not as bad on my Android phone, while Gmail operates okay in all OS. However, their redesign sucks.

I’m also finding that the Gmail spam settings are picking up real emails, but depositing spam into my regular inbox. Same thing happens in Yahoo, though at a lesser rate.

409 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:37:03am

re: #400 Joanne

Gmail is buggy as hell. I just bought some furniture and it took 12 weeks to manufacture and the sales guy kept trying to get a hold of me and Gmail puked on his email numerous times. Thankfully he had my Yahoo email (which I am trying to go away from since Yahoo does not play nice on an iPhone any longer - and I hate their re-do, bah) so he was able to reach me.

All that to say that Gmail is hardly All That.

That’s strange. I’ve never had a problem with Gmail before. I don’t get any spam at all either which I’m very happy about.

410 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:41:08am

re: #403 piratedan

my thoughts too, isn’t modus operandus of the free press to spread out like locusts on a story like this

Unfortunately, yes. Which really begs the question of who this freaking guy is. Wasn’t dad a high up in the CG? Haven’t even seen as much as a No Comment. Weird. Really weird.

411 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:42:35am

Syrian rebels pledge loyalty to al-Qaeda

412 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:42:37am
re: #405 NJDhockeyfan

Amazing… pic.twitter.com/mjRzrfaeLd
— Earth Pics (@ThatsEarth) June 14, 2013

I really like this one:

413 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:42:54am

re: #408 lawhawk

I’m finding the opposite. Yahoo is buggy and kludgy, particularly in FF or Chrome, but not as bad on my Android phone, while Gmail operates okay in all OS. However, their redesign sucks.

I’m also finding that the Gmail spam settings are picking up real emails, but depositing spam into my regular inbox. Same thing happens in Yahoo, though at a lesser rate.

Yahoo BLOWS. I can receive emails on my iPhone but not send them. And their computer site is terrible. You can’t right click on emails to open them while leaving the inbox alone.

That’s why I was moving everything to Gmail. But Gmail failed to deliver email from the furniture guy, my husband and God only knows who else.

414 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:43:24am

re: #412 Dr. Matt

LMAO!!

415 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:47:54am

re: #409 Sionainn

That worked fine. Go figure.

416 makeitstop  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:49:00am

re: #392 NJDhockeyfan

CBS News confirms multiple breaches of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer

Not buying it. Attkisson’s tin foil hat seems a little tight.

417 Dr. Matt  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:53:22am

re: #416 makeitstop

CBS News confirms multiple breaches of Sharyl Attkisson’s computer

Not buying it. Attkisson’s tin foil hat seems a little tight.

That’s what happens when you’re surfing for sketchy pron sites and blogs.

418 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:53:41am

re: #416 makeitstop

Not buying it. Attkisson’s tin foil hat seems a little tight.

Given that it’s CBS I’ll just assume it’s a throbbing breach. //

419 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:54:25am

re: #416 makeitstop

She also just could have a virus.

420 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:55:23am

re: #416 makeitstop

Not buying it. Attkisson’s tin foil hat seems a little tight.

Doesn’t CBS have any IT security there?

The comments there are pretty depressing. It’s all Obama’s fault!! 11ty!!

421 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:55:43am

CBS News. They just can’t resist going whacko every 10 years.

422 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:55:46am

re: #412 Dr. Matt

Uncle Pinkerton Explains, by The Rudy Schwartz Project
Youtube Video

423 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:55:47am

re: #415 wheat-dogghazi

That worked fine. Go figure.

Yeah!

By the way, what time is it there right now?

424 kirkspencer  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:57:23am

re: #384 lawhawk

The CO wildfires continue spreading and causing untold damage and misery for all those affected. With wildfires an annual occurrence and damage to property and loss of life an all too common problem, shouldn’t states consider changing their building codes and zoning laws to make the structures more fire resistant, up to and including rules about fire breaks, making structures more fire resistant, and requiring brush to be cleared on a regular basis.

Structures that have interior and/or exterior sprinklers and fire-resistant roofs and siding are less likely to get burned to the ground than other structures. Having landscaping that is set away from the buildings and less likely to be burned will likewise reduce the spread of the fires and the damage done.

Uh huh.

Here in Houston not so long ago four firefighters lost their lives while battling a blaze. The fire was in a hotel, built in 1960, which did not have sprinklers or other fire protection systems. Codes (such as they are) were not made retroactive.

So the commission discussed updating the codes (again), and some of the commissioners objected. ‘We need to balance safety with costs to businesses.’

You’re right but it’s unlikely to happen.

425 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 8:58:16am

re: #423 Sionainn

Almost midnight Saturday. We are 12 hours ahead of Eastern Time.

426 makeitstop  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:00:22am

Wow, Cesca has got Greenwald’s number.

Greenwald has a history of innuendo, personal smears, hypocrisy, and outright lying in the advancement of a stridently anti-Obama and anti-left-right paradigm agenda, which means that I need his story to be airtight before I believe it because as he’s selling it now it just too perfectly proves his entire worldview. I said it earlier this week but I’ll repeat myself: Despite Greenwald’s smug self-aggrandizing belief that he’s journalistic integrity’s last man standing, he’s actually a terrible journalist. If he were a good journalist he’d be something like a scientist: constantly trying to prove himself wrong as often as he’s trying to prove himself right to guard against confirmation bias or his agenda getting the better of his commitment to the truth.

427 makeitstop  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:02:39am

re: #426 makeitstop

Wow, Cesca has got Greenwald’s number.

Actually, that quote was from another DB blogger. Still nails GG to the wall, though.

428 Mattand  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:03:20am

re: #424 kirkspencer

Uh huh.

Here in Houston not so long ago four firefighters lost their lives while battling a blaze. The fire was in a hotel, built in 1960, which did not have sprinklers or other fire protection systems. Codes (such as they are) were not made retroactive.

So the commission discussed updating the codes (again), and some of the commissioners objected. ‘We need to balance safety with costs to businesses.’

You’re right but it’s unlikely to happen.

I just do not get that mindset of people dying, in the name of affordable business, are acceptable losses.

It’s like the disaster in East, TX and the lack of zoning codes. It’s like some sort of perverse reading of “You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.”

I loved visiting TX, and the people are great, but I just do not understand how the state has not imploded yet.

429 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:03:21am

Weird Things About Snowden’s Story

Posted on June 14, 2013 at 10:52 am by Bob Cesca

Pete Weber at The Week has very serious questions about Snowden’s story.

Here are the toplines with full writeups for each here.

1. Snowden overstated his salary… by a lot

2. He reportedly left his home on May 1

3. Snowden didn’t have ‘authority’ to wiretap anybody

4. He might not have had the ability to do so, either

5. Snowden’s resume is fishy.

The more I hear, the more I’m leaning towards the “hacker Ron Paul acolyte” conclusion about this guy.

430 Sionainn  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:03:42am

re: #425 wheat-dogghazi

Almost midnight Saturday. We are 12 hours ahead of Eastern Time.

Thanks. We are going to have to figure out a good time to communicate when the kids and I are awake. I’m on Pacific time.

431 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:05:55am

Hollywood love for Snowden…



432 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:06:57am
433 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:07:04am

re: #431 NJDhockeyfan

Hollywood love for Snowden…

What “unimaginable risks” is he taking?

Well, he could end up in a Chinese prison, which would suck.

434 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:10:26am

And yet, this guy is still Tweeting away free as a bird. You can’t explain that!

435 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:11:40am

re: #434 Vicious Babushka

And yet, this guy is still Tweeting away free as a bird. You can’t explain that!

And will continue to do so. I guess someone doesn’t realize that that Stasi and Gestapo actually killed people.

436 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:11:57am

re: #434 Vicious Babushka

And the GOPLeaders are in on it, too?!111!

/

Um, related, how’s the Power Structure holding up under Glenn Beck’s fearless Troof assault?

/

437 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:12:28am

re: #432 NJDhockeyfan

That’s a shocker. Got to love how Stone is outraged by this but he’s got no problem with the very real authoritarianism of Castro and the late Chavez.

438 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:13:22am

re: #436 Bulworth

And the GOPLeaders are in on it, too?!111!

/

Um, related, how’s the Power Structure holding up under Glenn Beck’s fearless Troof assault?

/

Well they got some rain yesterday but other than that, they seem to be doing ok.

439 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:15:31am

re: #437 HappyWarrior

That’s a shocker. Got to love how Stone is outraged by this but he’s got no problem with the very real authoritarianism of Castro and the late Chavez.

He no longer supports Obama either. Looks like he’s gone total moonbat.

440 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:16:33am

re: #437 HappyWarrior

*Commercial Sponsor Voiceover*
“Another Hollywood Celebrity Moonbat moment brought to you by Warped Perspective. A registered trademark and division of Willful Propaganda LLC”

441 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:16:57am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

He no longer supports Obama either. Looks like he’s gone total moonbat.

Gone? Stone’s always been a moonbat.

442 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:17:34am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

Stone has been in la-la land for years. Are you just learning this?

443 makeitstop  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:17:43am

re: #433 Vicious Babushka

What “unimaginable risks” is he taking?

Well, he could end up in a Chinese prison, which would suck.

I’ve been talking to friends about this, and most of them are of the mind that this whole thing is a setup. One friend believes that it’s nothing more than a classic case of espionage, and that the whole HK/China part of this was in place well before Greenwald was ever brought into the picture.

It wouldn’t surprise me. China pays Snowden to steal intel, Snowden recruits GG as the Useful Idiot and Greenwald swallows it hook, line and sinker.

The only thing preventing me from totally agreeing is that it would mean that Snowden really is smarter than I want to give him credit for. I totally buy that Greenwald would be a big enough sucker to push a fake cover story, though.

444 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:17:44am

Who’s going to play Greenwald & Snowden in the Oliver Stone movie?

445 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:18:08am

re: #442 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Stone has been in la-la land for years. Are you just learning this?

Seriously the whole premise of JFK is that pretty much everyone but Oswald killed Kennedy.

446 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:18:27am

re: #444 Vicious Babushka

Who’s going to play Greenwald & Snowden in the Oliver Stone movie?

Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels

447 Political Atheist  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:19:02am

re: #444 Vicious Babushka

Who’s going to play Greenwald & Snowden in the Oliver Stone movie?

Carrot Top and Pauly Shore.

448 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:19:05am

re: #446 darthstar

Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels

Dumb & Dumber, the Top Secret Edition

449 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:19:05am

re: #446 darthstar

Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels

Hey want to hear the most annoying sound in the world?

450 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:19:16am

re: #434 Vicious Babushka

And yet, this guy is still Tweeting away free as a bird. You can’t explain that!

Easily explained. In many cultures it’s bad juju to kill a madman.

451 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:19:30am

re: #434 Vicious Babushka

And yet, this guy is still Tweeting away free as a bird. You can’t explain that!

452 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:20:37am

re: #444 Vicious Babushka

Who’s going to play Greenwald & Snowden in the Oliver Stone movie?

I think John Cusack is a shoe in for the movie.

453 erik_t  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:20:46am

It’s one thing to be all grumpy-whatever about random posting of dumbass wingbat tweets. But I swear to god I am going to put my fist through my monitor the next time I see a picture of that smarmy little traitorous dipshit.

(deep breath)
((deep breath))

454 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:21:02am

re: #451 Joanne

LIBRUL TROLL!!11 U R SO BLOCKED!!!!1111 SPAMBLOCK & REPORT MSJOANNE LIBTURD!!!!!!!!!

455 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:22:05am

re: #451 Joanne

Internment camps Malkin!

456 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:22:44am

Greenwald & Snowden, the Breitbart & O’Keefe of the week.

457 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:23:22am

Snowden & O’Keefe: separated at birth?

458 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:25:31am

re: #457 Vicious Babushka

Snowden & O’Keefe: separated at birth?

Snowden’s next photo shoot will feature the pimp outfit, or at least the feather boa.

459 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:25:55am

Awesome…Chaucer doth tweet.

460 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:27:43am
461 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:29:27am

Time for bed here in Snowden’s Land of the Free. Have fun, y’all!

462 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:30:45am

re: #461 wheat-dogghazi

Time for bed here in Snowden’s Land of the Free. Have fun, y’all!

Speaking of which, I’m surprised he hasn’t created his own twitter account yet. Maybe he’s not that technical after all.

463 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:31:17am

re: #445 HappyWarrior

Seriously the whole premise of JFK is that pretty much everyone but Oswald killed Kennedy.

72 gunmen spaced out across 14 grass knolls, working in shifts.

The Freemason-Cuban-Space Jew conspiracy is nothing if not thorough.

464 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:32:53am

re: #460 NJDhockeyfan

That’s a seriously cool letter, not what you’d expect.

465 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:32:59am

re: #462 darthstar

Speaking of which, I’m surprised he hasn’t created his own twitter account yet. Maybe he’s not that technical after all.

Well, he totally would, not to mention set up an indiegogo crowdfunding site, but China locks down Teh Internets. But it’s only to protect their citizens from Teh Ebil NSA!!11 //

466 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:33:30am

DERP

467 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:34:41am

re: #466 Vicious Babushka

DERP

The Jews of Europe funded the Holocaust?

468 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:34:54am
469 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:35:20am

re: #467 Decatur Deb

The Jews of Europe funded the Holocaust?

Good catch. The fuck.

470 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:35:32am

re: #467 Decatur Deb

The Jews of Europe funded the Holocaust?

Considering the fact all their assets were confiscated, yes. Except that the Swiss did get to keep a bunch of it.

471 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:36:12am

re: #470 Vicious Babushka

Considering the fact all their assets were confiscated, yes. Except that the Swiss did get to keep a bunch of it.

Then you have to count the trade union retirement funds in there, too.

472 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:36:30am
473 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:37:37am

re: #433 Vicious Babushka

What “unimaginable risks” is he taking?

Exposing government secrets without having a book or movie deal already in place. Oops.

474 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:37:49am

re: #472 Gus

“Deplorable”? No, “Sin verguenza”.

475 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:38:20am

re: #439 NJDhockeyfan

He no longer supports Obama either. Looks like he’s gone total moonbat.

Stone’s always been a conspiracy nutter. JFK anyone?

476 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:38:45am

You know if Obama’s going to pull another Holocaust. He’s off to a real slow start. I mean jeez by this time in Hitler’s rule, Dachau was already opened and the Night of Long Knives had already ocurred. What also amuses me is how they want to convince themselves that it’s just the left. The whole intelligence apparatus in this country is headed by people who have served in Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama’s admin. General Clapper for example was director of NGA under Bush and head of the DIA for part of H.W and Clinton’s admin. The current director of the NSA was appointed by Bush in the first year of his second term.

477 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:14am

re: #473 Lidane

hard to interview agents from Hong Kong dontchaknow, the time difference is a killer. //

478 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:19am

re: #424 kirkspencer

Not to mention that insurance companies would love to see these implemented since it would reduce their costs and risk of loss due to wildfires.

Wildfires, like tornadoes and other natural disasters require (or should require) building codes that minimize losses. Reducing the available fire load or materials that can be tossed about in windstorms or carried about in floods needs to be considered where those events occur. To do otherwise makes little sense.

Some of the changes wouldn’t cost much more than existing materials (like fire resistant roofing over other roofing materials), and could be required as the roof requires replacement (such that over 20-30 years all existing structures become compliant). Others, like sprinklers could be required on all new construction or rehabilitated existing structures when walls/ceilings are exposed - like say in businesses, hotels, restaurants, or in homes when the rehab is over x sf.

Some of it requires little more than educating the public about the hazards of letting combustibles pile up on properties, and how to safely address landscaping to protect your home from wildfires.

But of course the usual suspects will complain about ZOMG government intrusion! Cost!!!! And attempts to strengthen the building codes falters.

Heck, I can’t wait to see the watered down version of what the NYC building codes will look like when they begin addressing Sandy damage lessons.

479 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:23am

re: #476 HappyWarrior

You know if Obama’s going to pull another Holocaust. He’s off to a real slow start. I mean jeez by this time in Hitler’s rule, Dachau was already opened and the Night of Long Knives had already ocurred. What also amuses me is how they want to convince themselves that it’s just the left. The whole intelligence apparatus in this country is headed by people who have served in Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama’s admin. General Clapper for example was director of NGA under Bush and head of the DIA for part of H.W and Clinton’s admin. The current director of the NSA was appointed by Bush in the first year of his second term.

Pffffft. Facts.

480 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:33am

re: #472 Gus

I sometimes wonder what would happen at one of these conservativeapalooza things if someone filled the HVAC system with decent quality dope smoke. Just enough to make people happy, not paranoid. Throw in some nice pastries and coffee, see what happens.

481 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:33am

re: #472 Gus

Yeah how awful.

482 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:46am

re: #445 HappyWarrior

Seriously the whole premise of JFK is that pretty much everyone but Oswald killed Kennedy.

Youtube Video

483 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:39:57am

It’s funny to see the people who pine to bring back HUAC crying about tyranny.

484 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:40:34am

re: #476 HappyWarrior

You know if Obama’s going to pull another Holocaust. He’s off to a real slow start. I mean jeez by this time in Hitler’s rule, Dachau was already opened and the Night of Long Knives had already ocurred. What also amuses me is how they want to convince themselves that it’s just the left. The whole intelligence apparatus in this country is headed by people who have served in Clinton, Bush II, and now Obama’s admin. General Clapper for example was director of NGA under Bush and head of the DIA for part of H.W and Clinton’s admin. The current director of the NSA was appointed by Bush in the first year of his second term.

GUN CONTROL IS TEH NEW HOLOCAUSE!!11!!!!11
INCOME TAXES IS TEH NEW SLAVERY!!!111!!!!

485 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:40:46am

Stockman is being an idiot troll:

WASHINGTON - Congressman Steve Stockman (R-Texas 36) Tuesday asked the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee to subpoena all National Security Agency records of phone calls between employees of the White House and the Internal Revenue Service.

Stockman’s office hand delivered a letter Tuesday afternoon to the Committee’s office requesting a subpoena “of all records of every phone call made from all public and private telephones of all IRS personnel to all public and private telephones of all White House personnel” collected under the NSA’s recently-revealed PRISM program.

“Obama assures the public he only collected this information to uncover wrongdoing and protect civil liberties. Clearly he would want us to use it to investigate this case, because otherwise he’d be lying,” said Stockman.

“If Obama has nothing to hide he has nothing to fear,” said Stockman.

486 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:40:47am
487 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:41:31am

re: #484 Vicious Babushka

Which of course were things started long before Obama was even alive let alone president but who needs fact when you’ve got a Twitter account and a king sized popcorn bag of hyperbolic cliches.

488 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:41:46am
489 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:42:47am

re: #472 Gus

Rebranding!

/

490 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:43:58am

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

For the same reason that I suspect Bryan Fischer of having massive amounts of gay porn on his computer. Sexual repression is a bitch.

491 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:44:08am

re: #481 HappyWarrior

I didn’t realize it was a central tenet of “faith” that the Spanish language not be spoken in Congress.

/

492 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:44:15am

re: #488 Gus

The President should have come out and stated that he intended to keep all of these folks in Gitmo for the duration, that would have guaranteed that the R’s would have voted to release them….

493 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:45:46am

re: #490 Lidane

For the same reason that I suspect Bryan Fischer of having massive amounts of gay porn on his computer. Sexual repression is a bitch.

I would not want to be the NSA analyst tasked with the job of scanning Bryan Fischer’s hard drive. EWWW.

494 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:46:17am

re: #472 Gus

These morons DO know that large parts of what is now the United States were colonized by Spain before the Pilgrims got here, right?

If anything, Spanish predates English around here.

495 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:46:33am

re: #488 Gus

What does “MT” mean, as opposed to RT=Retweet?

496 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:46:47am

re: #490 Lidane

For the same reason that I suspect Bryan Fischer of having massive amounts of gay porn on his computer. Sexual repression is a bitch.

There are other statistics that show gay porn searches in the US are located in the deep south. I have to admit in the past, I thought it was a bit of an exaggeration but the fact that guys like Fischer feel the need to liken supporting GLBT rights to Nazism shows to me that there’s definitely some deep rooted sexual repression there.

497 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:47:35am

re: #495 Bulworth

What does “MT” mean, as opposed to RT=Retweet?

Modified tweet.

498 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:47:58am

re: #494 Lidane

These morons DO know that large parts of what is now the United States were colonized by Mexico before the Pilgrims got here, right?

If anything, Spanish predates English around here.

Especially Texas. And Florida.

499 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:48:00am

re: #475 Lidane

I get that Stone’s a conspiracy nutter and thinks everything the government does is evil. They’ve done some pretty awful things and treated entire classes of people like crap. Stone’s Born on the Fourth of July is probably his best film (and Tom Cruise’s best performance by far) - and it was spot-on in how the government failed veterans, especially those who came back from Vietnam with all manner of injury. They were treated as disposable and that resonated with Stone because he was of the Vietnam era.

But he repeatedly veers off into conspiracy land.

The Snowden claims aren’t a conspiracy. They aren’t even half of what Snowden and Greenwald claim them to be (that is if Greenwald can even understand the material he was given, which upon further consideration finds that he doesn’t). Far from being groundbreaking news, he’s rehashing a program that was known in 2006, and which appears to have been acting in a lawful manner. There’s no evidence proffered that it was anything but a legal program with checks and balances - only Greenwald’s innuendo to suggest that something might be amiss.

And that doesn’t begin to touch on Snowden’s claims about the US hacking China. Even if everyone suspects it’s occurring, Snowden isn’t the one to make that public. That’s Espionage Act violation at its core.

500 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:48:01am

re: #495 Bulworth

What does “MT” mean, as opposed to RT=Retweet?

Modified retweet (for example, you need to edit the original tweet to stay within the 140-char limit)

501 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:49:16am

re: #498 Gus

Especially Texas. And Florida.

And Arizona, New Mexico and California. Damn near everything west of the Mississippi was colonized by the Spanish at some point, and long before the Pilgrims arrived.

502 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:50:25am

Wingnuts want everyone “tried 4 treason” except for Snowden.

503 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:50:47am

re: #501 Lidane

And Arizona, New Mexico and California. Damn near everything west of the Mississippi was colonized by the Spanish at some point, and long before the Pilgrims arrived.

Worth pointing out here that the lands that made up the Louisiana Purchase had only recently been acquired by France from Spain too.

504 Gus  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:53:29am

Ugh. I better get my rear in gear. BBL

505 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 9:54:59am

re: #499 lawhawk

I get that Stone’s a conspiracy nutter and thinks everything the government does is evil. They’ve done some pretty awful things and treated entire classes of people like crap. Stone’s Born on the Fourth of July is probably his best film (and Tom Cruise’s best performance by far) - and it was spot-on in how the government failed veterans, especially those who came back from Vietnam with all manner of injury. They were treated as disposable and that resonated with Stone because he was of the Vietnam era.

But he repeatedly veers off into conspiracy land.

The Snowden claims aren’t a conspiracy. They aren’t even half of what Snowden and Greenwald claim them to be (that is if Greenwald can even understand the material he was given, which upon further consideration finds that he doesn’t). Far from being groundbreaking news, he’s rehashing a program that was known in 2006, and which appears to have been acting in a lawful manner. There’s no evidence proffered that it was anything but a legal program with checks and balances - only Greenwald’s innuendo to suggest that something might be amiss.

And that doesn’t begin to touch on Snowden’s claims about the US hacking China. Even if everyone suspects it’s occurring, Snowden isn’t the one to make that public. That’s Espionage Act violation at its core.

Good director, just a bad political and historical commentator. His new show argues that FDR let Pearl Harbor happen on purpose- the original Turther movement.

506 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:00:02am

re: #495 Bulworth

What does “MT” mean, as opposed to RT=Retweet?

Modified Tweet - when you cut some of the tweet so you can add your own text

507 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:00:29am

BOOTSTRAPS!!!

The average Walmart worker making $8.81 per hour would have to work for 7 million years to acquire the Walton family’s current wealth.

508 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:01:14am

re: #505 HappyWarrior

that flies in the face of what I know about the history which was that the Navy had broken many of the Japanese Navy’s codes but had removed the WH from the raw intel reviews because of security concerns in regards to what was being said to the press. Strange how history keeps repeating itself I suppose.

Certainly possible that it was nothing more than military propaganda outta Hollywood, but thought I had read that in Toland’s series of books about the Pacific theatre.

509 kirkspencer  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:01:27am

re: #506 darthstar

Modified Tweet - when you cut some of the tweet so you can add your own text

So, selective quotation but at least it’s admitted? //

510 bratwurst  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:01:37am

If, like me, you were wondering why Colbert was an unannounced repeat last night (of the outstanding Paul McCarney show from Wednesday)…his mother has unfortunately passed away:

wistv.com

511 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:05:11am

Guess who is using Wingnut false dichotomy talking point fallacy!

512 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:05:12am

re: #508 piratedan

that flies in the face of what I know about the history which was that the Navy had broken many of the Japanese Navy’s codes but had removed the WH from the raw intel reviews because of security concerns in regards to what was being said to the press. Strange how history keeps repeating itself I suppose.

Certainly possible that it was nothing more than military propaganda outta Hollywood, but thought I had read that in Toland’s series of books about the Pacific theatre.

Not sure. But it’s just insane to suggest that FDR or really any American president would be okay with the deaths of thousands of citizens simply to start a war.

513 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:05:25am

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

RESEARCH!

514 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:06:27am

re: #495 Bulworth

What does “MT” mean, as opposed to RT=Retweet?

Modified Tweet…meaning you changed it somehow.

515 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:07:44am

re: #510 bratwurst

If, like me, you were wondering why Colbert was an unannounced repeat last night (of the outstanding Paul McCarney show from Wednesday)…his mother has unfortunately passed away:

wistv.com

Aww, too bad and you know they were probably real close since Stephen I think was the youngest and he lost his Dad and two of his brothers at an early age in a plane crash. Speaking of Stephen, just saw some of Monsters Vs Aliens again, and he’s funny in that as the president. It’s as if the Colbert character got elected president. Fun little movie.

516 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:07:45am

re: #511 Vicious Babushka

Um, I’ve been assuming for the past however many years that the NSA was tracking this stuff anyway.

517 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:08:28am

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

“I’m doing research! These are all just for research! I don’t ENJOY them!”

518 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:09:30am

re: #512 HappyWarrior

agreed, but while our country has certainly played the role of villain in the past, it’s usually done on the behalf of some overly influential corporate entity, like American Can company throughout the first half of the 20th century and their exploits in Central America versus at the expense of folks on American soil.

519 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:10:02am

re: #517 GeneJockey

“I’m doing research! These are all just for research! I don’t ENJOY them!”

The excuse of the Ugandan minister who showed a gay porno to his congregation when arguing for death to homosexuals.

520 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:10:48am

re: #518 piratedan

agreed, but while our country has certainly played the role of villain in the past, it’s usually done on the behalf of some overly influential corporate entity, like American Can company throughout the first half of the 20th century and their exploits in Central America versus at the expense of folks on American soil.

American Fruit in Guatemala is another good example. Err that’s United Fruit.

521 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:10:58am

re: #511 Vicious Babushka

Guess who is using Wingnut false dichotomy talking point fallacy!

522 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:12:04am

re: #516 Bulworth

Um, I’ve been assuming for the past however many years that the NSA was tracking this stuff anyway.

Seriously, you’d have to be pretty daft not to.

523 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:12:25am

re: #519 HappyWarrior

The excuse of the Ugandan minister who showed a gay porno to his congregation when arguing for death to homosexuals.

One thing that always amazed me, when I hung out on an Archery and Bowhunting forum, was just how obsessed many Conservatives are with the mechanics of gay sex. Creepily so.

I sometimes asked, “Do you suppose Gays obsess about Bowhunters?”

524 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:12:36am

re: #520 HappyWarrior

ty for the reference correction there, tried to hedge on specifics but knew the region and what we did there was simply not in the interests of anyone except the corporate ones.

525 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:13:14am

re: #520 HappyWarrior

American Fruit in Guatemala is another good example.

Dole in Belize. I can’t recall who the sugar company is, but they’ve fucked over central America, too.

526 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:14:51am

re: #523 GeneJockey

One thing that always amazed me, when I hung out on an Archery and Bowhunting forum, was just how obsessed many Conservatives are with the mechanics of gay sex. Creepily so.

I sometimes asked, “Do you suppose Gays obsess about Bowhunters?”

Gets me thinking of an episode of Louie. Louie, Nick DiPaolo, this one gay comic whose name I don’t know, and some other dudes are playing cards. And the gay comic comments that he talks about gay sex more with his straight friends like Louie, Nick, and the others than his actual gay friends. Really, if conservatives saw ho most gay people are pretty ordinary people like straight people, they’d realize how stupid they sound when they talk
about “the gay lifestyle.” I’ve actually had some of my favorite talks about girls with a gay college pal of mine.

527 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:15:25am

re: #522 Joanne

Well, we’ve known for several years that the NSA was tracking phone calls between people from outside America to people inside America. Not much of a stretch to assume it expanded beyond that.

528 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:15:39am

re: #524 piratedan

ty for the reference correction there, tried to hedge on specifics but knew the region and what we did there was simply not in the interests of anyone except the corporate ones.

Not a prob. I remembered learning about the coup that overthrew Abrenz there and I felt I had to get the deets correct.

529 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:15:47am

re: #511 Vicious Babushka

Who’s even making that argument. And who’s this “we”? Snowden’s off in Hong Kong and Greenwald’s where - Brazil? Both are gabbing away with claims of nefarious actions, but none of which appear to be illegal at this time. He’s using innuendo to claim violations and other media outlets keep walking back different parts of his claims (that is those parts that we hadn’t known about since 2006).

530 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:16:08am

Louisiana Chemical Plant Hasn’t Been Inspected By OSHA In Two Decades
Deregulation at its finest.

531 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:16:42am
532 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:17:14am

re: #529 lawhawk

Who’s even making that argument. And who’s this “we”? Snowden’s off in Hong Kong and Greenwald’s where - Brazil? Both are gabbing away with claims of nefarious actions, but none of which appear to be illegal at this time. He’s using innuendo to claim violations and other media outlets keep walking back different parts of his claims (that is those parts that we hadn’t known about since 2006).

Greenwald’s silly straw man, it’s a typical wingnut “debating tool” along with the false dichotomy (“If you are against A then you must be for B”)

533 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:17:53am

re: #502 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts want everyone “tried 4 treason” except for Snowden.

I have a question about this. If PBO was the Tyrant wingnuts claim him to be, wouldn’t a whole host of wingnuts be on trial for treason or in secret jails somewhere?

And yet, the very people whining about TYRANNY and demanding FREEDOM are the same ones quite eager to convict everyone else of treason.

534 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:18:25am
535 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:19:50am

re: #534 lawhawk

And yet Congress’s makeup will be the same by 2015 because people mostly disaprove of other people’s Congressmen not their own.

536 Mattand  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:19:53am

re: #445 HappyWarrior

Seriously the whole premise of JFK is that pretty much everyone but Oswald killed Kennedy.

Yeah, this. It’s a great movie, in many ways. Acting was good, and the choice of differing film stocks was very painterly.

But its core thesis is the LBK and the military organized a in-plain-sight coup to assassinate JFK. The conspiracy is so convoluted it make your average 9/11 schlock look like a model of simplicity.

537 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:20:20am

re: #533 Bulworth

I have a question about this. If PBO was the Tyrant wingnuts claim him to be, wouldn’t a whole host of wingnuts be on trial for treason or in secret jails somewhere?

And yet, the very people whining about TYRANNY and demanding FREEDOM are the same ones quite eager to convict everyone else of treason.

I’m thinking “Tim Bishop” might be a parody account.

538 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:20:35am

re: #533 Bulworth

Obama’s the most ineffectual and insidious and effective tyrant/dictator EVAH! /

He’s so effective at crushing dissent that we don’t hear from any of the dissenters (and any of those who are calling for his scalp, impeachment on treason, etc.).

539 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:21:09am

re: #535 HappyWarrior

And yet Congress’s makeup will be the same by 2015 because people mostly disaprove of other people’s Congressmen not their own.

Sadly. It’s always some other guy who’s the problem.

540 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:21:30am

re: #533 Bulworth

I have a question about this. If PBO was the Tyrant wingnuts claim him to be, wouldn’t a whole host of wingnuts be on trial for treason or in secret jails somewhere?

And yet, the very people whining about TYRANNY and demanding FREEDOM are the same ones quite eager to convict everyone else of treason.

Shit Obama was a tyrant, Glenn Beck would have at least been brought in for questioning now. But what do you know, he’s not only still on the airwaves but he even has a new book out. I bet the survivors of the Holocaust hear and read these lunatics ranting about how POTUS is like Hitler and they just want go apeshit on them. I know I do and I was born 42 years after WWII ended.

541 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:21:31am

Today is Pamela Geller’s birthday!

Buy something at a Muslim-owned business!

542 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:21:42am

re: #531 darthstar

He’s such an insufferable douche. Ugh.

543 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:22:21am

re: #541 Vicious Babushka

Today is Pamela Geller’s birthday!

Buy something at a Muslim-owned business!

Better yet, send her a halal gift basket. That should be fun.

544 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:22:33am

re: #539 Joanne

Sadly. It’s always some other guy who’s the problem.

both sides do it and are to blame!

R’s for being batshit crazy and D’s for allowing them to be batshit crazy, see both sides!

your media narrative in action…..

545 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:22:35am

re: #539 Joanne

Sadly. It’s always some other guy who’s the problem.

Congress sucks! The opposite of progress is congress!
So will you be voting for your Congressman for re-election?
Yeah he’s better than the commie running against him.

546 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:23:35am

And here I thought Hurricane Sandy is what doomed Mitt and his zombie-eyed granny starver:

547 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:24:19am

re: #536 Mattand

Yeah, this. It’s a great movie, in many ways. Acting was good, and the choice of differing film stocks was very painterly.

But its core thesis is the LBK and the military organized a in-plain-sight coup to assassinate JFK. The conspiracy is so convoluted it make your average 9/11 schlock look like a model of simplicity.

Yep. Really the whole idea that LBJ wanted Kennedy dead so he could jumpstart Vietnam is nuts. It was a fascinating movie if not a bit too long for my ADHD self. I liked Nixon too because Stone interestingly decided to show Nixon in a human light and while I don’t like Nixon, I think the only way you can tell his story is by showing he was more complex than I AM NOT A CROOK.

548 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:24:52am

re: #543 Lidane

Better yet, send her a halal gift basket. That should be fun.

If I buy something it will be for me, not for her.

549 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:25:30am

re: #546 Lidane

more likely it was his mythical budget plan

550 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:25:36am

re: #546 Lidane

And here I thought Hurricane Sandy is what doomed Mitt and his zombie-eyed granny starver:

But I thought Americans hated Obamacare, Paul. Really give it up, you guys lost because your message was unappealing to most Americans. Americans don’t want to hear about how the wealthy deserve more tax cuts but programs they rely on need to be cut.

551 Mattand  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:25:48am

re: #541 Vicious Babushka

Today is Pamela Geller’s birthday!

Buy something at a Muslim-owned business!

I may send her a halal turkey.

552 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:26:01am

re: #546 Lidane

The mythical promise of Romneycare for the entire nation? After all, Romneycare was the model on which the PPACA (Obamacare) was based, and the individual mandate was something even the Heritage Foundation was suggesting as a way to expand access to health insurance for years until Obama incorporated it in his health care plans, when they did the 180 and later claimed it unconstitutional.

Yeah, that’s what really did Romney/Ryan in.

That and the fact that voters saw through their lies and obfuscations about, well, everything.

553 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:26:03am

re: #548 Vicious Babushka

If I buy something it will be for me, not for her.

Oh, I wasn’t talking about you sending her something. I’m just saying it would be hilarious for someone to send her a halal gift. Heh.

554 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:27:00am

re: #541 Vicious Babushka

Today is Pamela Geller’s birthday!

Buy something at a Muslim-owned business!

Wish I still lived in my hometown then because there’s an awesome mom and pop kabob place owned by this Afghani family.

555 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:27:16am

re: #553 Lidane

A greeting card from Park51 sounds about right. /

556 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:28:02am

re: #555 lawhawk

A greeting card from Park51 sounds about right. /

Mecca postcard with large letters WISH YOU WERE HERE in Arabic of course.

557 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:28:08am
558 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:28:09am

re: #546 Lidane

And here I thought Hurricane Sandy is what doomed Mitt and his zombie-eyed granny starver:

And here I thought it was his vision of America as The Country That Can’t.

Can’t take care of its elderly. Can’t take care of its children. Can’t educate its citizens. Can’t keep its roads and bridges in good order. Can’t help the unemployed.

559 Kragar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:28:49am

re: #541 Vicious Babushka

Today is Pamela Geller’s birthday!

Youtube Video

560 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:29:10am

re: #557 lawhawk

Gee GOP you want to permanently lose Catholics too? Good luck being the white fundamentalist Protestant party.

561 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:29:57am

re: #558 GeneJockey

And here I thought it was his vision of America as The Country That Can’t.

Can’t Wont take care of its elderly. Can’t Wont take care of its children. Can’t Wont educate its citizens. Can’t Wont keep its roads and bridges in good order. Can’t Wont help the unemployed.

FTFY

562 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:30:17am

re: #560 HappyWarrior

Gee GOP you want to permanently lose Catholics too? Good luck being the white fundamentalist Protestant party.

That’ll totally work if we just stop everyone else from voting!

563 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:30:26am

re: #546 Lidane

And here I thought Hurricane Sandy is what doomed Mitt and his zombie-eyed granny starver:

564 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:30:39am

re: #558 GeneJockey

And here I thought it was his vision of America as The Country That Can’t.

Can’t take care of its elderly. Can’t take care of its children. Can’t educate its citizens. Can’t keep its roads and bridges in good order. Can’t help the unemployed.

Seriously, Mitt was a doom and gloomer. American voters will choose the more optimistic candidate over the doomsayer every time. You’d think for a party that idolizes Reagan, they’d know that.

565 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:31:14am

re: #560 HappyWarrior

Gee GOP you want to permanently lose Catholics too? Good luck being the white fundamentalist Protestant party.

If Texas ever flips, that’s exactly what they will be — a regional white Fundametalist party.

566 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:32:21am

re: #561 lawhawk

I was referring to his vision, not the reality of what he was selling. In his vision, we can’t afford to do any of those things, because it would infuriate the Armada it might require asking more from the rich, and that would cause the Collapse of the Economy.

567 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:32:47am

re: #553 Lidane

Oh, I wasn’t talking about you sending her something. I’m just saying it would be hilarious for someone to send her a halal gift. Heh.

Where’s Gus when you need him? One photoshopped gift certificate for a Halal turkey in her email box.

Classic!

568 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:32:55am

re: #565 Lidane

If Texas ever flips, that’s exactly what they will be — a regional white Fundametalist party.

They plan to turn the Hispanic population Protestant—right after the turn them Republican.

569 Kragar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:33:17am

Pat Buchanan Panics at News of ‘Demographic Winter of White America’

When we read the news yesterday that, for the first time in American history, more white people are dying than are being born, we knew that a racist Pat Buchanan column could not be far behind.

And we were not disappointed. Buchanan uses his syndicated column today to lament “the demographic winter of white America” and suggest that rather than “pander” to people of color, the GOP should instead impose a moratorium on all new immigration in order to stop “what mass immigration is doing to the country demographically, ethnically, socially and politically.”

570 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:33:45am

Why Romney and Ryan lost? It’s simple. You couldn’t ask for two more unlikable guys. You had one guy who thought it was funny that he tied up his dog to the top of the car in a crate and then laughed as he recounted the dog throwing up. And then you had Paul Ryan who was stupid enough to lie about his marathon times. We Americans like guys like Bluto and Otter, we don’t like guys like Neidermeyer and Marmaland.

571 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:34:52am

re: #569 Kragar

Pat Buchanan Panics at News of ‘Demographic Winter of White America’

Of course, Pat has a sad about this because he knows that campaigns that race bait Hispanics will be a thing of the past with more and more Hispanic-Americans and as a racist this makes Pat a sad panda.

572 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:37:16am

re: #560 HappyWarrior

don’t stop them, they’re on a roll….

573 Kragar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:37:40am

Spurs Answer Racist Response To Latino National Anthem Singer By Letting Him Sing Again

That the Spurs chose a Latino boy in a mariachi suit quickly became a controversy, with social media users asking why an “illegal alien” was singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” and why he was “dressed like such a little Mexican.” One Twitter user posited that “They prolly made this Mexican sing to stay in America.”

De La Cruz was quick to respond , as was San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro, who wrote in a Facebook message that De La Cruz “represent[s] the best of our nation’s future!” Spurs coach Greg Poppovich blasted the critics as “idiots” who were for some reason “proud of their ignorance.” But the Spurs organization itself had the best response, because it asked De La Cruz to come back and sing the national anthem again before Game 4 Thursday night. And he killed it:

574 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:38:23am

re: #564 HappyWarrior

Seriously, Mitt was a doom and gloomer. American voters will choose the more optimistic candidate over the doomsayer every time. You’d think for a party that idolizes Reagan, they’d know that.

The problem is that the doom and gloom are at the very heart of Conservatism, a movement entirely based on fear of the unknown. And what could be more unknown than the future, where things might be DIFFERENT?

Reagan had the advantage of being up against an incumbent who projected doom and gloom.

575 Joanne  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:40:52am

re: #570 HappyWarrior

We Americans like guys like Bluto and Otter, we don’t like guys like Neidermeyer and Marmaland.

Politician’s lie, we all know that. But these two took it to a whole new level. It was like they were incapable of saying anything truthful. Ever.

576 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:41:17am

re: #574 GeneJockey

The problem is that the doom and gloom are at the very heart of Conservatism, a movement entirely based on fear of the unknown. And what could be more unknown than the future, where things might be DIFFERENT?

Reagan had the advantage of being up against an incumbent who projected doom and gloom.

True that and that’s why I think conservatism as we know it is going to be in decline. Conservatism like liberalism in the 1980’s has to adapt if its proponents want any long-term survival.

577 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:42:21am

re: #573 Kragar

Spurs Answer Racist Response To Latino National Anthem Singer By Letting Him Sing Again

It’s an even better performance than the previous one. They should have him do it every game. Who knows how good he could get?

578 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:43:05am

re: #576 HappyWarrior

True that and that’s why I think conservatism as we know it is going to be in decline. Conservatism like liberalism in the 1980’s has to adapt if its proponents want any long-term survival.

Resistance to change is the essence of conservatism. When they learn to adapt, they stop being conservative. That’s the part I like.

579 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:43:32am

re: #576 HappyWarrior

True that and that’s why I think conservatism as we know it is going to be in decline. Conservatism like liberalism in the 1980’s has to adapt if its proponents want any long-term survival.

But they can’t, because “adapting” is precisely what they’re afraid of, and what they are most vehemently against. BUT, those folks are getting older, and they won’t live forever. I expect Conservatism to look very different in 20 or so years.

580 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:43:55am
581 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:44:16am

re: #579 GeneJockey

But they can’t, because “adapting” is precisely what they’re afraid of, and what they are most vehemently against. BUT, those folks are getting older, and they won’t live forever. I expect Conservatism to look very different in 20 or so years.

Yes—they’ll be wearing 1990s fashions.

582 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:45:24am

re: #578 Decatur Deb

Resistance to change is the essence of conservatism. When they learn to adapt, they stop being conservative. That’s the part I like.

Ah yes, that is very true.

583 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:45:52am

re: #573 Kragar

Spurs Answer Racist Response To Latino National Anthem Singer By Letting Him Sing Again

HA! Love it.

584 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:46:26am

re: #579 GeneJockey

But they can’t, because “adapting” is precisely what they’re afraid of, and what they are most vehemently against. BUT, those folks are getting older, and they won’t live forever. I expect Conservatism to look very different in 20 or so years.

Well the base won’t adapt but I think the establishment is going to look at the writing on the wall and realize they have to. The base will hate it though. I mean they thought that Romney in 2012 form wasn’t conservative enough for them. Mr. Self-Deport, Mr. I support for the Ryan Budget.

585 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:46:53am

re: #580 Vicious Babushka

I don’t know. Have to ask Yahoo!

586 darthstar  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:50:44am
587 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:51:24am
588 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:51:52am

re: #580 Vicious Babushka

If ‘some now claim’ that, why is there no link to such a claim?

Oh, right. Straw men don’t have links.

589 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:51:55am

re: #586 darthstar

Policy wonk wank. Seriously dude?

590 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:52:36am

re: #584 HappyWarrior

Well the base won’t adapt but I think the establishment is going to look at the writing on the wall and realize they have to. The base will hate it though. I mean they thought that Romney in 2012 form wasn’t conservative enough for them. Mr. Self-Deport, Mr. I support for the Ryan Budget.

The base didn’t like Romney because they didn’t believe he meant it. The fact that he comes across like a salesman didn’t help convince them. Quite the opposite.

The problem for them was that every other candidate they had running was unelectable. Bachmann? Perry? Santorum? Cain? GINGRICH?!? Newt fucking GINGRICH led their field TWICE!!!

591 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:52:39am

By the way is this the same convention that Christie skipped out on? If so, you made a wise decision not to go Chris.

592 piratedan  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:52:47am

why does every Greenwald tweet sound like a blurb for a John Grisham novel?

593 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:52:58am

re: #587 Vicious Babushka

Rep. Trent Franks Only Sounds Like A Nazi Because He’s ‘100 percent Unapologetically Pro-life’ wonkette.com …


So he organizes protests outside prison executions?

594 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:54:29am

re: #590 GeneJockey

The base didn’t like Romney because they didn’t believe he meant it. The fact that he comes across like a salesman didn’t help convince them. Quite the opposite.

The problem for them was that every other candidate they had running was unelectable. Bachmann? Perry? Santorum? Cain? GINGRICH?!? Newt fucking GINGRICH led their field TWICE!!!

The fact that Santorum gave Mitt a race and a run for his money really told me all I need to know about the GOP primary electorate. If they ever find an evangelical (remember Santorum is Catholic and while evangelicals don’t distrust Catholics as much as they do Mormons, there still is mistrust), if they ever find an evangelical who can also appeal to big money. Then they’re going to find their savior. Who will then summarily be swamped in a general election.

595 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:55:12am

re: #594 HappyWarrior

The fact that Santorum gave Mitt a race and a run for his money really told me all I need to know about the GOP primary electorate. If they ever find an evangelical (remember Santorum is Catholic and while evangelicals don’t distrust Catholics as much as they do Mormons, there still is mistrust), if they ever find an evangelical who can also appeal to big money. Then they’re going to find their savior. Who will then summarily be swamped in a general election.

Great White Dope.

596 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:55:23am

re: #592 piratedan

why does every Greenwald tweet sound like a blurb for a John Grisham novel?

There used to be a site where you could “auto-generate” a book blurb for a “Dan Brown” style novel.

Sadly, that site no longer exists. The Illuminati/OpusDei/Templars/FreeMasons/EldersOfZion/LizardPeople must have taken it down. :(

597 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:56:37am

re: #573 Kragar

Spurs Answer Racist Response To Latino National Anthem Singer By Letting Him Sing Again

Not only that, but the mascot for the San Antonio Spurs dressed up for the occasion:

Image: coyote.jpg

598 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:58:46am

re: #597 Lidane

Not only that, but the mascot for the San Antonio Spurs dressed up for the occasion:

Image: coyote.jpg

CAn we see the Mascot’s papers. Seriously though, the Spurs are really a great organization. I’ve always respected them from a basketball perspective, being able to consistently compete even though they don’t have the flashiness of say L.A or Miami but they just seem like a great bunch of people as well too. I’m rooting for them to win the whole thing.

599 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 10:59:27am

re: #596 Vicious Babushka

There used to be a site where you could “auto-generate” a book blurb for a “Dan Brown” style novel.

Sadly, that site no longer exists. The Illuminati/OpusDei/Templars/FreeMasons/EldersOfZion/LizardPeople must have taken it down. :(

I remember that, that was great because it showed you how silly Brown’s novels really are.

600 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 11:00:31am

re: #599 HappyWarrior

I remember that, that was great because it showed you how silly Brown’s novels really are.

Toby Inkster!

601 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 11:01:55am

re: #598 HappyWarrior

CAn we see the Mascot’s papers. Seriously though, the Spurs are really a great organization. I’ve always respected them from a basketball perspective, being able to consistently compete even though they don’t have the flashiness of say L.A or Miami but they just seem like a great bunch of people as well too. I’m rooting for them to win the whole thing.

It’s funny. The racist assholes who attacked that kid were one of the few things to unite my entire FB timeline. Friends and relatives on both sides of the aisle, even if they normally drive me crazy derping as Paultards or wingnuts or whatever were all uniformly pissed off at those idiots for attacking a young Latino boy. Hell, even sports rivalries were set aside with folks now cheering for the Spurs because of the way they handled this whole affair.

602 Slap  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 11:07:42am

re: #536 Mattand

Yeah, this. It’s a great movie, in many ways. Acting was good, and the choice of differing film stocks was very painterly.

But its core thesis is the LBK and the military organized a in-plain-sight coup to assassinate JFK. The conspiracy is so convoluted it make your average 9/11 schlock look like a model of simplicity.

Quite agree. Some time ago, I saw a doc (on History, iirc) where they had several trained Marine snipers attempt to fire all three shots in that tight time window using the same bolt-action rifle Oswald used. They completely thrashed the “it’s just not POSSIBLE for LHO to have fired all those shots using that gun” idea — then they went into some detail about LHO’s Marine sharpshooter tests.

The guy was a dead shot. His scores ranked at the very top.

There’s plenty of flex in the concept that he was a puppet of somebody, but the fact remained that he had the pure skill to pull it off. Which flies in the face of many of the “grassy knoll” proponents.

If you’re at all interested, James Ellroy wrote (and finally polished off) a trilogy of novels referred to as the Underworld USA Trilogy. It’s fiction that has a real verisimilitude, and lays out the complex web of deceit and conflicting agendas surrounding the late Fifties and early Sixties, with a cast of real-life figures (Hoover, Hughes,the Kennedys, etc) and a few key fictional characters. It’s a bracing ride.

603 Lidane  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 11:24:41am
604 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 11:24:52am

re: #601 Lidane

It’s funny. The racist assholes who attacked that kid were one of the few things to unite my entire FB timeline. Friends and relatives on both sides of the aisle, even if they normally drive me crazy derping as Paultards or wingnuts or whatever were all uniformly pissed off at those idiots for attacking a young Latino boy. Hell, even sports rivalries were set aside with folks now cheering for the Spurs because of the way they handled this whole affair.

That’s one of the wonderful things about sports.

605 GeneJockey  Fri, Jun 14, 2013 11:43:00am

re: #602 Slap

There’s also the ‘Melon’ test. I forget who did it first, but Penn and Teller included it in “How To Play With Your Food”. Take a head-sized melon. Cover it in fiberglass and resin to simulate a skull. Set it on a post. Shoot with a rifle using FMJ rounds like Oswald used.

The melon flies back toward the shooter.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 61 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 163 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1