Edward Snowden's a Hero, All Right - to China and Russia

Edward Snowden’s a Hero, All Right - to China and Russia

Sympathy meter now at absolute zero

WorldJune 2013 • Views: 25,443

Well now. I’m at a loss to understand how Edward Snowden’s latest disclosures could possibly have been inspired by his much-vaunted concerns about civil liberties, since he’s now revealing details about US espionage against Russia.

American spies based in the UK intercepted the top-secret communications of the then Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, during his visit to Britain for the G20 summit in London, leaked documents reveal.

The details of the intercept were set out in a briefing prepared by the National Security Agency (NSA), America’s biggest surveillance and eavesdropping organisation, and shared with high-ranking officials from Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.

The document, leaked by the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden and seen by the Guardian, shows the agency believed it might have discovered “a change in the way Russian leadership signals have been normally transmitted”.

The most salient point: this is not news in any sense. You would have to be one of the most naïve people on Earth to not realize that the US spies on Russia, Russia spies on the US, and in general, heads of state from any freaking country spy on each other, friendly or not, all the time, forever and ever, amen.

But that doesn’t mean it’s insignificant when a US citizen reveals this kind of information to Russia, either. I had already lost any shred of sympathy for Mr. Snowden when he dumped secret documents to a pro-Beijing newspaper, but this demonstrates beyond a doubt that his sole purpose in leaking these secrets is to embarrass the US government.

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38 comments

Kragar Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:43:58pm

Snowden is a traitor, pure and simple.

Kragar Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:46:34pm

Greenwald explains how he preempted the Snowden smears and took the media by storm

Appearing Sunday with CNN host Howard Kurtz, Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald discussed his thinking behind releasing a video interview containing explosive revelations about the National Seucirty Agency, saying he wanted to present whistleblower Edward Snowden in his own words to preempt the smear campaign that’s now in high gear, as the debate seems to have taken the whole of the Western media by storm.

“[Snowden] was concerned that [the media] would distract away from the revelations of what our government is doing onto him personally,” Greenwald told Kurtz. “[W]henever there’s a whistleblower… the favorite tactic is to demonize him and highlight what are his alleged bad personality traits. That’s why we wanted to present him in his own words to the world, so they could form their own impression before these smear campaigns began.”

Vicious Babushka Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:48:58pm

this demonstrates beyond a doubt that his sole purpose in leaking these secrets is to embarrass the US government.

And he’s also probably receiving rewards > $62/hr compensation and a smoking hot girlfriend.

ShroedingersGat Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:51:22pm

I have a more pragmatic view on this. It’s beneficial to get this out in the open and have a policy debate before it spirals out of control to a degree where citizens no longer have any say against the entrenched bureaucracy of warrantless wiretapping.

Cautiously counting this as a net positive in the long run. You have to cross the line to see where it is. I don’t believe his disclosures materially hurt the government. If a low-level contractor has access to that data, you can be sure the foreign governments have much better information.

This episode hurt some people’s feelings in the government and might have put few journalist credibilities in question. Other than that, this hero/traitor talk is mostly fluff which will be forgotten in time.

Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:53:24pm

re: #4 ShroedingersGat

I have a more pragmatic view on this. It’s beneficial to get this out in the open and have a policy debate before it spirals out of control to a degree where citizens no longer have any say against the entrenched bureaucracy of warrantless wiretapping.

This isn’t going to lead to a real debate. If anything, the hysterical stories followed by rapid backtracking, the “Snowden is a patriot!” and then awkwardly dealing with him being in China, showing secrets to Russia— this has hurt the cause for transparency.

This episode hurt some people’s feelings in the government and might have put few journalist credibilities in question. Other than that, this hero/traitor talk is mostly fluff which will be forgotten in time.

“Traitor” is an actual legal thing, whereas “hero” isn’t. Anyway, I don’t consider him a traitor, but it’s almost trivially demonstrable he’s committed espionage. Do you really consider that ‘fluff’?

Eclectic Cyborg Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:53:47pm

I disagree with the comment that Snowdens sole purpose is to embarrass the U.S. government. I think he’s after fame. I think he sees himself in his mind as some kind of freedom fighter or living legend. Think Woodward or Bernstein with a lot more egomania and a lot less common sense.

erik_t Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:54:11pm

I’d buy Bradley Manning a beer before I gave this fucker the time of day.

nines09 Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:54:26pm

Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl

Occam's Guillotine Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:54:56pm

A low level goofball giving fairly obvious secrets to the Kremlin? It’s happened before. The real news this time is the right wing taking the goofball’s side instead of demanding that he be strung up from the nearest lamppost.

Backwoods_Sleuth Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:55:42pm

re: #9 Occam’s Guillotine

A low level goofball giving fairly obvious secrets to the Kremlin? It’s happened before. The real news this time is the right wing taking the goofball’s side instead of demanding that he be strung up from the nearest lamppost.

and some on the left are lapping it up as well.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:56:07pm

re: #4 ShroedingersGat

I have a more pragmatic view on this. It’s beneficial to get this out in the open and have a policy debate before it spirals out of control to a degree where citizens no longer have any say against the entrenched bureaucracy of warrantless wiretapping.

Cautiously counting this as a net positive in the long run. You have to cross the line to see where it is. I don’t believe his disclosures materially hurt the government. If a low-level contractor has access to that data, you can be sure the foreign governments have much better information.

This episode hurt some people’s feelings in the government and might have put few journalist credibilities in question. Other than that, this hero/traitor talk is mostly fluff which will be forgotten in time.

Publicly disclosing details about the US spying on Russia isn’t something that will “materially hurt the government”? Handing China data about NSA surveillance isn’t damaging?

Do you even read the words you type? Downding.

Bubblehead II Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:56:15pm

Time for this Administration to quit playing games. Take the asshole and those who support him out.

End of program. End of line.

erik_t Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:56:16pm

re: #4 ShroedingersGat

I have a more pragmatic view on this. It’s beneficial to get this out in the open and have a policy debate before it spirals out of control to a degree where citizens no longer have any say against the entrenched bureaucracy of warrantless wiretapping.

It was already out in the opening. We already knew this was happening*. There was an article in USA Today, of all places, in like 2006.

What we didn’t need out in the open was details of our national security apparatus and what it does with regards to international rivals with whom we are not entirely friendly.

*Well, we knew the true parts; it can be argued Glenn’s article served to misinform the public, not inform them.

Occam's Guillotine Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:56:21pm

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg lament “Why wasn’t the right wing like this back in ‘53?”

engineer cat Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:56:35pm

i’m annoyed that the debate over surveillance in this country has become snowdenized

Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:57:52pm

re: #6 Eclectic Cyborg

I disagree with the comment that Snowdens sole purpose is to embarrass the U.S. g

He’s been kind of mendacious in what he’s said his motivations are. He’s claimed that he is acting on behalf of private citizens vs. government, but this latest drop is clearly government vs. government stuff. I’m not sure his goal is to embarrass the US, I think his goal might be something so ideological it doesn’t really make any sense, but a necessary part of that is embarrassing the US, since the US is Big Brother.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:58:05pm

re: #9 Occam’s Guillotine

A low level goofball giving fairly obvious secrets to the Kremlin? It’s happened before. The real news this time is the right wing taking the goofball’s side instead of demanding that he be strung up from the nearest lamppost.

Who on the right in doing that? Congress has been fairly quiet about the matter, with pretty much everyone other than Rand Paul excoriating Snowden.

This isn’t a ‘left/right’ thing, this is a nutcase thing.

AntonSirius Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:59:08pm

re: #4 ShroedingersGat

It’s beneficial to get this out in the open and have a policy debate before it spirals out of control to a degree where citizens no longer have any say against the entrenched bureaucracy of warrantless wiretapping.

Please explain how a revelation regarding NSA activities against foreign governments has anything whatsofuckingever to do with American civil liberties.

Please further explain how exaggerated and outright dishonest claims about the NSA’s activities in the US help foster a public debate about the Patriot Act and what it enables in reality as opposed to in the paranoid fantasies of Glenn Greenwald.

blueraven Sun, Jun 16, 2013 4:59:32pm

While it has been widely known the two countries spy on each other, it is rare for either to be caught in the act; the latest disclosures will also be deeply embarrassing for the White House as Obama prepares to meet Vladimir Putin, who succeeded Medvedev as president, in the margins of the G8 summit this week.

So is this the purpose of leaking this info…to embarrass Obama?
I fail to see anything of value here. Except to Russia.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:00:26pm

re: #12 Bubblehead II

Time for this Administration to quit playing games. Take the asshole and those who support him out.

End of program. End of line.

Youtube Video

Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:00:42pm

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

Oh, it probably won’t hurt because it’s probably not detailed enough to tell them anything new.

You know what would be awesome? Here’s my new story. Edward Snowden, Alternate-Reality Patriot.

The information he is leaking about our surveillance of foreign nations is purposefully crafted to hide certain channels of information. Snowden worked together with the top members of the intelligence community to concoct a program that was believable, close enough to reality to be accepted, yet fictitious in very important ways. It was necessary to release the domestic stuff to give him credibility— Greenwald was chosen for his credulousness— but the goal was feeding false info to the Chinese and Russians all along.

We salute you, Alternate-Reality Edward Snowden!

Vicious Babushka Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:03:37pm

HANNIBAL LECHTER CAT

sup girl pic.twitter.com/PJOTJSYynF
— Emergency Kittens (@EmrgencyKittens) June 16, 2013

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:04:17pm

re: #21 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Oh, it probably won’t hurt because it’s probably not detailed enough to tell them anything new.

You know what would be awesome? Here’s my new story. Edward Snowden, Alternate-Reality Patriot.

The information he is leaking about our surveillance of foreign nations is purposefully crafted to hide certain channels of information. Snowden worked together with the top members of the intelligence community to concoct a program that was believable, close enough to reality to be accepted, yet fictitious in very important ways. It was necessary to release the domestic stuff to give him credibility— Greenwald was chosen for his credulousness— but the goal was feeding false info to the Chinese and Russians all along.

We salute you, Alternate-Reality Edward Snowden!

Snowden Prime, however, is still a dick.

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:04:58pm

re: #21 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Oh, it probably won’t hurt because it’s probably not detailed enough to tell them anything new.

You know what would be awesome? Here’s my new story. Edward Snowden, Alternate-Reality Patriot.

The information he is leaking about our surveillance of foreign nations is purposefully crafted to hide certain channels of information. Snowden worked together with the top members of the intelligence community to concoct a program that was believable, close enough to reality to be accepted, yet fictitious in very important ways. It was necessary to release the domestic stuff to give him credibility— Greenwald was chosen for his credulousness— but the goal was feeding false info to the Chinese and Russians all along.

We salute you, Alternate-Reality Edward Snowden!

You laugh, but I’m already hearing muttering from the usual suspects that indeed Snowden is indeed a “false flag,” that the NSA is playing him to put bullshit out there to cover up their “real” work.

Occam's Guillotine Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:08:56pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Who on the right in doing that? Congress has been fairly quiet about the matter, with pretty much everyone other than Rand Paul excoriating Snowden.

This isn’t a ‘left/right’ thing, this is a nutcase thing.

Where have you been? Virtually every right wing media source has been shrilly denouncing the NSA and Obama and lionizing Snowden since this started. Just a couple of local examples: Charlie Jones of Texas Overnight has declared Snowden a “hero.” Donald May, Lubbock’s crackpot “Mr. Conservative” has done likewise. Ron Paul has praised him, automatically bringing his nutcase constituency into the act. Check out Free Republic or any right wing blog, Snowden has millions of admirers who have heretofore been less than sympathetic to spies and self styled whistle blowers. The right’s response really is strikingly different this time, compared to, say, Daniel Ellsberg, let alone the Rosenbergs and Bradley Manning.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:12:46pm

re: #25 Occam’s Guillotine

I don’t listen to talk radio and I tend to avoid Free Republic unless someone else here links to it.

Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:15:13pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

You laugh, but I’m already hearing muttering from the usual suspects that indeed Snowden is indeed a “false flag,” that the NSA is playing him to put bullshit out there to cover up their “real” work.

If I was the NSA I’d be hyping that rumor.

Mattand Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:19:57pm

re: #4 ShroedingersGat

I have a more pragmatic view on this. It’s beneficial to get this out in the open and have a policy debate before it spirals out of control to a degree where citizens no longer have any say against the entrenched bureaucracy of warrantless wiretapping.

Cautiously counting this as a net positive in the long run. You have to cross the line to see where it is. I don’t believe his disclosures materially hurt the government. If a low-level contractor has access to that data, you can be sure the foreign governments have much better information.

This episode hurt some people’s feelings in the government and might have put few journalist credibilities in question. Other than that, this hero/traitor talk is mostly fluff which will be forgotten in time.

I have huge, huge problems with this whole “Yeah, maybe he made up shit about the subject, but at least we’re talking about it” viewpoint.

I might be acting naïve about this, but I’m failing to when one party lies about a subject it leads to honest debate.

Occam's Guillotine Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:20:14pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

I don’t listen to talk radio and I tend to avoid Free Republic unless someone else here links to it.

These are dominant, not to mention representative, elements of right-wing thinking. If you don’t know what they are saying, you do not know what is happening with the right wing.

Decatur Deb Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:24:43pm

A Joe Bonamassa concert is on our local public TV fundraiser.

AntonSirius Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:28:20pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

You laugh, but I’m already hearing muttering from the usual suspects that indeed Snowden is indeed a “false flag,” that the NSA is playing him to put bullshit out there to cover up their “real” work.

Here’s the thing about being a conspiracy theorist. It’s the easy way out.

The world’s a big, complicated scary place, with more going on than any one person can possibly know about. So you’ve essentially got two choices: you can focus on real issues and problems that you can do something about with the resources at your disposal… or you can hide in fantasies that make you feel helpless and powerless, thereby absolving you of any responsibility to do anything at all to improve the world around you.

Conspiracy nuts, fundamentally, are cowards.

Mattand Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:32:19pm

re: #31 AntonSirius

Here’s the thing about being a conspiracy theorist. It’s the easy way out.

The world’s a big, complicated scary place, with more going on than any one person can possibly know about. So you’ve essentially got two choices: you can focus on real issues and problems that you can do something about with the resources at your disposal… or you can hide in fantasies that make you feel helpless and powerless, thereby absolving you of any responsibility to do anything at all to improve the world around you.

Conspiracy nuts, fundamentally, are cowards.

I’m so tweeting that right now. Credit will be given.

Decatur Deb Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:39:51pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

You laugh, but I’m already hearing muttering from the usual suspects that indeed Snowden is indeed a “false flag,” that the NSA is playing him to put bullshit out there to cover up their “real” work.

Ran into a shiny new CP following Snowden around. Not only is he a false flag, but the fall of the Soviets, Pepsification of China, and the coming Taiwan reunification are all false flags covering LRP, the Long Range Policy.

Amory Blaine Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:47:25pm

re: #30 Decatur Deb

A Joe Bonamassa concert is on our local public TV fundraiser.

The acoustic set?

Decatur Deb Sun, Jun 16, 2013 5:48:44pm

re: #34 Amory Blaine

The acoustic set?

Vienna Opera—over here in CDT now. (Season opener of Inspector Lewis is next—BBL.)

stabby Sun, Jun 16, 2013 6:15:57pm

re: #22 Vicious Babushka

That’s such a sad picture.

Travis Bickle Mon, Jun 17, 2013 8:56:54am

Shorter: We luurve the US government (read: domestic spying which they say has limits, while overseas Americans are fair game.)

pk51 Tue, Jun 18, 2013 9:46:52am

I had already lost any shred of sympathy for Mr. Snowden when he dumped secret documents to a pro-Beijing newspaper, but this demonstrates beyond a doubt that his sole purpose in leaking these secrets is to embarrass the US government
I totally agree with this assessment. The facts show that Snowden did this not for the sake of Civil Liberties, He did it because of his own ideology and His anti-Obama views. Then He aligned himself with Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald lives in Brazil. Greenwald has always been bashing the Obama administration. But the more salient point is We have someone hired by Booz Allen Hamilton, part of the Carlyle Group, making $900 million of the US Gov. contracts. Furthermore, Snowden, has only a GED, never graduated from college, and yet was hired for top secret work. What is wrong with this picture? I suspect there is something more sinister going on here. Perhaps Snowden and Greenwald are using the NSA to smear Obama. After all, Snowden supported Ron Paul for President. There are more questions here than answers but ask yourselves, would You have hired Snowden? I think the answer is most likely NO!

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