Snowden Reveals More Secret Documents to Pro-Beijing Hong Kong Paper

Leaking like a sieve
World • Views: 32,507

Just found out about the latest Edward Snowden leaks from Kurt Eichenwald’s Twitters:

Yes, that’s correct; Snowden is showing more top secret documents on US surveillance programs to the very pro-Beijing South China Morning Post.

And here’s the online article: EXCLUSIVE: Snowden Safe in Hong Kong, More US Cyberspying Details Revealed | South China Morning Post.

Documents seen by the Post and statements by Snowden show that Washington’s cyber-spying programme carried out:

  • Extensive hacking of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages
  • Sustained attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning.
  • Hacking of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet, which owns one of the most extensive fibre optic submarine cable networks in the region
Also see
UK Spy Agency Played Catch-Up to ‘Master the Internet’ | South China Morning Post

Jump to bottom

128 comments
1 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:05:42pm

Trying to ingratiate himself with the Chicoms in the hopes that they’ll refuse to comply with the extradition demands on “political” grounds.

2 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:06:51pm

Tsinghua University is, of course, a Party-Dominated school, with no actual freedom of academic thought.

In the 25 years Johns Hopkins University and Nanjing University have run a joint campus in China, it’s never published an academic journal. When American student Brendon Stewart tried last year, he found out why.

Intended to showcase the best work by Chinese and American students and faculty to a far-flung audience, Stewart’s journal broke the Hopkins-Nanjing Center’s rules that confine academic freedom to the classroom. Administrators prevented the journal from circulating outside campus, and a student was pressured to withdraw an article about Chinese protest movements. About 75 copies sat in a box in Stewart’s dorm room for a year.

“You think you’re going to a place that has academic freedom, and maybe in theory you do, but in reality you don’t,” said Stewart, 27, who earned a master’s degree in international studies this year from Hopkins-Nanjing and now works for an accounting firm in Beijing. “The place is run by Chinese administrators, and I don’t think the U.S. side had a lot of bargaining power to protect the interests of its students. At the end of the day, it’s a campus on Chinese soil.”

businessweek.com

3 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:08:14pm

re: #2 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Gee, now why would the US want to keep an eye on what happens in a place like that? It’s a real head-scratcher!

4 Kragar  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:08:40pm

Greenwald: Snowden’s revelations ‘not espionage in any real sense of the word’

“I think it’s very surprising to accuse someone of espionage who hasn’t worked for a foreign government, who didn’t covertly pass information to an adversary [or] enemy of the United States, who didn’t sell any top secret information,” Greenwald told Hayes, arguing that Snowden “simply went to newspapers, asked newspapers to very carefully vet the information to make sure that the only thing being published are things that informed his fellow citizens but doesn’t harm national security. That is not espionage in any real sense of the word.”

You were saying Glenn?

5 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:10:29pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

To be fair, it has produced more liberal and ‘hesitantly pro-democratic’ leaders than other places. But it has massively restrictive rules on what professors can publish. They’ve actually gone about it very cannily: professors are allowed to talk about things in class, but not publish them. This relegates the ideas to the fringe automatically, and co-opts the professors by making them think “Well, at least I can say it in class, so I’m not really being silenced.”

6 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:10:34pm
7 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:11:01pm

re: #4 Kragar

Greenwald: Snowden’s revelations ‘not espionage in any real sense of the word’

You were saying Glenn?

He’ll weasel out by arguing that the documents were shown to a newspaper and not government officials, as if there’s much difference.

8 b.d.  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:11:30pm

Screw him. The Chinese will seize his computer stuff and hand him over. No doubt they are about as sick of that smarmy jerk as we are.

9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:12:30pm

Revealing the details of the NSA hacks in general will also show the Chinese weak spots in their network security— remember, there’s a “Great Firewall of China” for them to control information flow. So Snowden is, and this really is ironic, helping to Chinese shut down free speech.

10 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:13:23pm

re: #8 b.d.

They’re not at all sick of him. He is absolutely great for China. He is embarrassing the US, making a false equivalence between the US and China, and taking the pressure off China’s horrible human rights record.

11 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:16:37pm
12 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:19:44pm

re: #7 Targetpractice

He’ll weasel out by arguing that the documents were shown to a newspaper and not government officials, as if there’s much difference.

If he had mailed them to Beijing, he could blame the US Postal Service.

13 b.d.  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:28:34pm

Wonder what we have to give the PRC for them giving us Snowden? Think they need a women who knows southern cooking?

14 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:28:56pm

A lot of the initial rush of support from the general liberals, like my dad, has vanished. My dad hasn’t brought up Snowden after the initial conversation.

If the Chinese refuse to extradite, then we get to not extradite the next Chinese dude who applies for asylum, I guess. Even Steven. I’ll exchange a Snowden for a Chinese dissident. Good bargain.

15 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:31:00pm

re: #14 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

16 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:34:27pm

re: #15 ProTARDISLiberal

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

Why do you so often seem to be trying to win a “Who can be the biggest asshole?” competition?

17 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:35:08pm

re: #15 ProTARDISLiberal

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

All that would do is hurt the students; the Chinese government wouldn’t care one whit about them.

18 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:36:17pm

Snowden’s rabid right supporters have no problem with this. It’s hard to imagine: They hate Obama so much they’ve gone over to the Red Chinese.
We already know about their sanity. Is it okay to question their patriotism now?

19 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:37:44pm

I wonder if he did it to try and guarantee the Chinese government would protect him from extradition.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:38:25pm

Maybe Rand Paul can start passing out copies of Chairman Mao’s little red book; red for “red state,” you see.

21 otoc  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:38:47pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I’m slightly annoyed by that tweet for the reason being I am a “folks” and I don’t need to be told what to think in spite of agreeing with the point. It’s like GG telling us what privacy entails. Nothing wrong with having an opinion. But I’ve had my fill of people telling me what my opinion should be. I know I’m nitpicking, btw. I understand the frustration on this topic with this young fool being thrown around as a hero when a hero would have acted in an entirely different way and would not have run.

22 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:38:49pm

re: #16 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

China has students sent here to learn in our universities, which is then used to empower China, albeit only a little bit. At least, that is my view.

re: #17 William Barnett-Lewis

It hurts those Chinese students alot less than the PRC hurts the Uyghur and Tibetans.

23 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:40:45pm

re: #15 ProTARDISLiberal

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

You constantly reach for the blunderbuss when a scalpel is required.

Why is that?

24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:41:27pm

re: #22 ProTARDISLiberal

The students, exposed to the freedoms of the US, are excellent ambassadors for democracy. And if they’re not, then we need to build up our democracy some more.

You would be cutting off something that promotes democracy in China because it ‘empowers’ them. You’d be punishing students. You’d be hurting the US, that benefits from these students’ work. And you say you’d rather do this, you’d rather fuck over Lei Ping who’s trying to help cure cancer with my wife at Cornell, instead of welcoming a pro-democracy dissident to the US.

Fucking unbelievable.

25 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:43:50pm

re: #24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The students, exposed to the freedoms of the US, are excellent ambassadors for democracy. And if they’re not, then we need to build up our democracy some more.

You would be cutting off something that promotes democracy in China because it ‘empowers’ them. You’d be punishing students. You’d be hurting the US, that benefits from these students’ work. And you say you’d rather do this, you’d rather fuck over Lei Ping who’s trying to help cure cancer with my wife at Cornell, instead of welcoming a pro-democracy dissident to the US.

Fucking unbelievable.

The US is no longer a democracy but an aristocracy.

26 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:44:43pm

re: #25 Eclectic Cyborg

The US is no longer a democracy but an aristocracy.

This isn’t true, though. We’re kind of sucking at our democracy right now, but it’s still we the citizens doing the sucking.

27 Mattand  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:45:14pm

Apparently Chris Hayes is pushing Greenwald back a bit on Snowden.

I find the MSNBC coverage on all of this interesting. Hayes has been fairly aggressive in give Greenwald face time, while Maddow has barely touched the story. When she did, Rachel sounded like she really, really wanted Snowden to be a hero, but couldn’t quite commit.

I wonder if she had a sense that Greenwald’s crusading didn’t quite ring true and wisely backed off.

28 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:45:49pm

re: #23 goddamnedfrank

Because the PRC mistreats the Tibetans and Uyghurs. And, it does not look like the situation for them will get better before those Ethnic Groups disappear.

re: #24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

You really think that those students that come in will really make China more tolerant? From my experience with PRC exchange students from OU, they still had blinkers on. Maybe a handful will be changed, but not enough to be significant.

29 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:47:09pm

re: #22 ProTARDISLiberal

China has students sent here to learn in our universities, which is then used to empower China, albeit only a little bit. At least, that is my view.

re: #17 William Barnett-Lewis

It hurts those Chinese students alot less than the PRC hurts the Uyghur and Tibetans.

What if some of those exchange students are Uyghur or Tibetan? Not likely, I suppose, but your idea did not consider the possibility.

Exchange students are one of the best means available to promote peace between countries. My brother had a Chinese roommate in 1975.

30 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:48:22pm

First Chinese atomic bomb test, 1964. From Trinity and Beyond, narrated by William Shatner. This sequence includes some staged scenes from the 1967 propaganda movie, The East is Red:

Youtube Video

The respirator-masked cavalrymen and their similarly masked horses charging toward the mushroom cloud is my favorite scene in the whole movie.

31 bratwurst  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:48:27pm

re: #28 ProTARDISLiberal

You really think that those students that come in will really make China more tolerant? From my experience with PRC exchange students from OU, they still had blinkers on. Maybe a handful will be changed, but not enough to be significant.

I know you are smart enough to understand that your experience with one or two out of the several thousand students from the PRC here means nothing.

32 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:49:23pm

re: #29 wrenchwench

I met exactly one Uyghur at OU.

A person whose family moved here to escape the PRC. I severely doubt the PRC would allow allow students of an ethnicity they want to marginalize, and probably get rid of.

33 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:49:25pm

re: #28 ProTARDISLiberal

Whatever. You’re back to your stupid group-blame bullshit that apparently makes you really happy. Fucking stupid.

34 b.d.  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:50:30pm

re: #27 Mattand

Uh oh.

“I don’t think you will find very many people argue that he should not be charged with any sort of a criminal offense,” Greenwald replied

Is it possible to block yourself on Twitter?

35 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:51:07pm

It’s easy to get pissed off at the situation in China and to forget how much China has changed since Nixon opened our relations with it. How much has isolation changed Cuban society for the better, or Iran? I’d include North Korea, and it’s true, but there the isolation is primarily imposed internally.

36 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:52:21pm

re: #33 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Accepting Pro-Democracy dissidents for asylum will be good on an individual level, but the PRC will simply not change.

And, we have done this “group blame” before. The Apartheid boycotts, anyone? That is what I am after on this.

37 otoc  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:53:54pm
re: #28 ProTARDISLiberal

You really think that those students that come in will really make China more tolerant? From my experience with PRC exchange students from OU, they still had blinkers on. Maybe a handful will be changed, but not enough to be significant.

A handful today grow into more tomorrow. Being patient for results is the key in my opinion. Once the taste of freedom is on the tongue, it’s hard to spit out. Let’s face it, our freedoms, no matter how flawed are miles ahead from the changes the Chinese have had during their change from total Communism. I’d ask if you were confusing nationalism for blinders in your example. We all have nationalism. That’s why I’m pissed at the latest Snowden example.

Edit: my cutting and pasting made it difficult to see to where I was respondin, my apologies

38 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:54:06pm

re: #35 goddamnedfrank

Changed economically. They have not changed on the Tibetans and Uyghurs. It has been 40+ years. It is safe to say that, in regards to those two groups, and a handful of others, things will never change. If they had a potential to, it would have happened in some form over the last 2/5ths of a century.

39 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:54:55pm

He leaked more documents on Friday, I assume from the safety of his Hong Kong Security Branch provided apt.

scmp.com

40 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:55:07pm

re: #38 ProTARDISLiberal

Changed economically. They have not changed on the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

You know nothing Jon Snow.

41 darthstar  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:55:08pm

I’m starting to think Snowden had some help…and I’m not talking about that wannabe O’Keefe Greenwald. There needs to be a major investigation into Booz Allen.

42 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:55:31pm

re: #36 ProTARDISLiberal

Accepting Pro-Democracy dissidents for asylum will be good on an individual level, but the PRC will simply not change.

And you are lying to yourself enough to think that expelling their students will somehow make them go “Oh, okay, we’ll become more liberal now.” Instead, they’ll point to us and say “See how bad they’re being?” and send more students somewhere else instead.

And, we have done this “group blame” before. The Apartheid boycotts, anyone? That is what I am after on this.

South Africa was an apartheid democracy. It’s not in the least bit comparable.

But seriously: Group blame is obviously not a rational position for you. it’s obviously an emotional one. You go fucking crazy with it, like calling for unrestricted bombing of cities. This is a big, big problem you have, and you really need to deal with it on a personal level.

43 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:55:48pm

re: #37 otoc

If you mean Han Nationalism, then yes. That is what I ran into whenever I would ask about the Tibetans and the Uyghurs.

44 Mattand  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 3:58:29pm

re: #34 b.d.

Uh oh.

Is it possible to block yourself on Twitter?

LOL, seriously. The article points out that most of Snowden’s supporters are saying he’s not guilty of anything.

45 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:00:21pm

Pelosi heckler on why Lieberman shouldn’t become president.

Because. JUICE.

46 otoc  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:01:45pm

re: #43 ProTARDISLiberal

It doesn’t mean you weren’t having an effect. Although the Tibetan thing is rather like any other country experiencing long lasting issues. Iraq and Afghanistan, comes to mind in our recent history of trying to tie together our form of democracy with countries having years of unresolved internal differences. Some things internal to a nation are difficult to resolve. Ask the Food Channel. ;)

47 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:02:29pm

Pelosi heckler on “Do JUICE Rule the World?”

48 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:03:03pm

re: #42 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

For me, Apartheid South Africa and the PRC are at the same bottom rung of the latter.

And yes, this is a heavily emotional response. The way the PRC treats the Tibetans and Uyghurs makes me angry. What would you propose as an alternative?

49 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:04:51pm

re: #48 ProTARDISLiberal

Please, please talk to someone about your rage issues. Please.

50 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:05:36pm

re: #48 ProTARDISLiberal

For me, Apartheid South Africa and the PRC are at the same bottom rung of the latter.

And yes, this is a heavily emotional response. The way the PRC treats the Tibetans and Uyghurs makes me angry. What would you propose as an alternative?

heavily emotional response = time to stop typing and start thinking. Then maybe start back in with the question you finally got around to in this comment.

51 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:08:37pm

re: #45 Gus

Pelosi heckler on why Lieberman shouldn’t become president.

Because. JUICE.

Check out the “Ring of Conservative Sites” he belongs to. Nutjobs.

And his other rants? Nuts:

- There shouldn’t be no fault divorce, because property rights.
- School vouchers are government control, because they mean standards about what can be taught.

Nuts.

52 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:08:57pm

re: #48 ProTARDISLiberal

And yes, this is a heavily emotional response. The way the PRC treats the Tibetans and Uyghurs makes me angry. What would you propose as an alternative?

Serenity

53 piratedan  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:10:18pm

you’re right Glenn, this incident does indeed involve a totalitarian regime that has control over it’s own population, it’s just not the one YOU think it is…..

54 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:17:15pm

Fallout from latest Hawaii spy scandal: hawaiinewsnow.com

55 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:26:15pm

re: #45 Gus

Pelosi heckler on why Lieberman shouldn’t become president.

Because. JUICE.

Ugh! I thought Dkos got rid of these kinds of people a while back. I guess a few are still around.

56 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:29:56pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Ugh! I thought Dkos got rid of these kinds of people a while back. I guess a few are still around.

Got me. Here’s another of his rants but on Israel.

57 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:35:05pm

Memo to Chris Hayes: It appears that Edward Snowden is “All In” with the Chinese govt now.

58 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:37:13pm

re: #56 Gus

Got me. Here’s another of his rants but on Israel.

Dude is more than a little nutty

59 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:38:12pm

re: #15 ProTARDISLiberal

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

The PRC’s propaganda machine would scream about that for a week and then they’d arrest some American businesspeople or give the workers at a factory making goods for US firms permission to strike.

At best we’d look like assholes. At worst we’d set off a cycle of escalating measures that would end ‘who know where?’.

60 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:39:03pm
61 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:42:43pm

Dkos pretty happy about booing Pelosi
Nancy Pelosi Booed, Heckled Over Edward Snowden, NSA Comments At Netroots Nation 2013

Thanks to all the guys at Netroots Nations that held Pelosi’s toes to the fire. It is time to stop protecting “bad” Democrats.

If we want a progressive country with progressive values, we need to demand it.

Good luck with that.

62 Kragar  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:46:01pm

re: #60 Gus

“WE LOVE OUT DEEP FRIED LARD IN BUTTER SAUCE!”

63 piratedan  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:47:48pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

well as soon as they can actually start getting progressives to run for office, get them through the primaries and effectively market them to the public, then maybe yeah, we’ve only been at this for what now 100 years?

64 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:48:41pm

Cripes. This one is disgusting.

65 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:49:16pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Dkos pretty happy about booing Pelosi
Nancy Pelosi Booed, Heckled Over Edward Snowden, NSA Comments At Netroots Nation 2013

Good luck with that.

Ah, the purity demands of the activist base. Smell like….DERP.

66 piratedan  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:51:40pm

re: #64 Gus

he has a point, why everyday I’m out on the street, talking to black people who are still hung up on Slavery and can’t stop talking about it. Can’t even have a casual conversation about the weather or sports without the topic inevitably being steer right back to the slavery question.//

67 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:53:14pm

re: #64 Gus

Cripes. This one is disgusting.

The decendents (sic) of the slaves in America are generally far better off that the decendants (sic) of those who were not brought to America. Blacks in America should be thankful for their own personal sake that their ancestors were brought over here.

What a doofus. Note that the loser has two different misspellings of “descendants.”

68 b.d.  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:53:41pm

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

Yep. Pelosi is a 1% bankster loving stooge that must be primaried by a real progressive.

She would have been a republican back in the 80s.

We need to take her off the table!

//snark

(How’d I do?)

69 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:54:04pm

re: #64 Gus

Cripes. This one is disgusting.

And it’s from 2004. This asshole wrote that before Barack Obama gave his convention speech that year, so it isn’t even ODS. It’s noting but pure racism, full of malice aforethought.

70 Higgs Boson's Mate  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:54:10pm

The PRC is shocked, shocked to find out there’s hacking going on here! They could probably tell Snowden more about the methods being used against them than he can tell them, particularly if the PRC is interested in feeding us disinformation. Nonetheless, the show must go on and I’m confident that the Chinese will make the most of this.

71 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:55:05pm

re: #70 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The PRC is shocked, shocked to find out there’s hacking going on here! They could probably tell Snowden more about the methods being used against them than he can tell them, particularly if the PRC is interested in feeding us disinformation. Nonetheless, the show must go on and I’m confident that the Chinese will make the most of this.

Your winnings, sir.

72 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:55:44pm

re: #68 b.d.

Yep. Pelosi is a 1% bankster loving stooge that must be primaried by a real progressive.

She would have been a republican back in the 80s.

We need to take her off the table!

//snark

(How’d I do?)

You have an excellent command of Moonbat. I was around in the 60s so I am a native speaker.

73 b.d.  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:56:57pm

re: #70 Higgs Boson’s Mate

lol, I can only imagine all the PRC intelligence agents feigning shock with their Home Alone cheek slapping faces.

74 Higgs Boson's Mate  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:57:13pm

re: #72 Occam’s Guillotine

You have an excellent command of Moonbat. I was around in the 60s so I am a native speaker.

Higgs reluctantly raises his hand.

75 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:58:01pm

re: #64 Gus

Cripes. This one is disgusting.

Uh … this guy is no left winger. He belongs to the Asshole Party.

76 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 4:58:13pm

I can’t see the comments, so testing, 1,2,3…

77 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:00:29pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Uh … this guy is no left winger. He belongs to the Asshole Party.

RT this maybe? :D

78 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:01:16pm

re: #64 Gus

Cripes. This one is disgusting.

Are Liberals more Racist that Conservatives?

Silly question, of course we are. We also hate women, gays, unicorns, and leprechauns more. We are so full of hate….

//

79 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:04:09pm

re: #78 Iwouldprefernotto

Are Liberals more Racist that Conservatives?

Silly question, of course we are. We also hate women, gays, unicorns, and leprechauns more. We are so full of hate….

//

Frikken leprechauns

80 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:06:56pm

“Spider Glock, Spider Glock,
Does the stuff that a Spider Glock does.”
“Can it blast a can,
full of holes?”
“Yes it can,
it’s a Glock.
Look out, it is the Spider Glock!”

81 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:11:27pm

What these “slavery is a blessing” idiots fail to recognize is that black Africans might well have been brought here as contract laborers or indentured servants if slavery had not been legal.
As alternate history this is not as implausible or far fetched as it may seem. Slavery was illegal in almost all of Europe itself at the time and had been for a millenium or more. Its introduction into the Americas was furiously debated in the 16th and 17th centuries, until the opponents gave up under the weight of profit-driven appeals to necessity. The debate was revived only much later, with the abolitionists, and their effort succeeded.
What if the earlier opponents of slavery had won, and the institution had been nipped in the bud? The labor for the great sugar and cotton plantations would still have to come from somewhere. What would the planters have done if slavery had been off the table? It is not impossible to suppose they would have looked to Africa anyway. There would have been massive abuses, as with all working people at the time, but nothing like the monumental blot of slavery itself on this continent.

82 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:15:41pm

re: #72 Occam’s Guillotine

You have an excellent command of Moonbat. I was around in the 60s so I am a native speaker.

Needs moar ‘fellow traveler’.

83 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:18:40pm

And it’s out there. Bwahahaha!

84 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:18:47pm

re: #76 A Mom Anon

So it worked.

So is it time to investigate Booz Allen Hamilton yet? And is it time to maybe start looking at eliminating these damned contractors from everything, paying civil servants a little more and maybe stop trying to tear the government to pieces?

Snowden’s a little weasel, but he had help, a fair amount of it. Besides that idiot Greenwald. I’d like to know who.

85 bratwurst  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:20:05pm

Wondering what stupid people think of the Paula Deen situation?

86 abolitionist  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:20:41pm

On topic: 3 NSA veterans speak out on whistle-blower: We told you so

87 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:22:18pm

re: #69 Dark_Falcon

And it’s from 2004. This asshole wrote that before Barack Obama gave his convention speech that year, so it isn’t even ODS. It’s noting but pure racism, full of malice aforethought.

“American blacks are better off than African blacks.”

A racism classic.

Because Africa is just AK-47s and starving children. For centuries.

Also funny because the worst things that have happened in Africa coincidentally are the result of non-African nations setting up shop.

88 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:23:56pm

re: #87 The Ghost of a Flea

“American blacks are better off than African blacks.”

A racism classic.

Because Africa is just AK-47s and starving children. For centuries.

Also funny because the worst things that have happened in Africa coincidentally are the result of non-African nations setting up shop.


SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

89 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:24:05pm

re: #84 A Mom Anon

So it worked.

So is it time to investigate Booz Allen Hamilton yet? And is it time to maybe start looking at eliminating these damned contractors from everything, paying civil servants a little more and maybe stop trying to tear the government to pieces?

Snowden’s a little weasel, but he had help, a fair amount of it. Besides that idiot Greenwald. I’d like to know who.

Not unless you think BAH did something wrong that they knew or should have known was wrong. They got fucked by Snowden, don’t think they didn’t. They’ll have to reorg a good bit of their intell section due to the certainty that it has been compromised.

What went wrong should be looked into, but more in the way the US Army looked into Bradley Manning’s leak to Assange.

90 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:25:01pm

Reeling him in!

//

91 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:25:09pm

Private contractors should have no business in the intel world.

92 Stanghazi  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:29:44pm

Gus - the page I read about Joe Lieberman, that was heckler dude? There was heavy antisemitism in there.

93 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:32:21pm

re: #91 Varek Raith

Exactly. They are loyal to money, period. It’s time to back the truck up on this nonsense. There are something like a half a million contractors with top security clearances. Seriously? How is that secure? Who the hell is vetting all these people? It’s crap, and it needs to stop.

94 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:32:49pm

re: #15 ProTARDISLiberal

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

So, guilt by association is a valid legal and judicial concept in your mind.

95 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:39:38pm

re: #83 Gus

Er, I think @bluejoni must have misunderstood something. Pretty sure she’s been pretty straight on the issues before. Possibly she confused you with one of our lovely stalker pals.

96 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:40:04pm

re: #93 A Mom Anon

Exactly. They are loyal to money, period. It’s time to back the truck up on this nonsense. There are something like a half a million contractors with top security clearances. Seriously? How is that secure? Who the hell is vetting all these people? It’s crap, and it needs to stop.

It won’t, because Booz Allan Hamilton can pay top-notch computer people what they’re worth and the federal government cannot. The reason it cannot is complicated, but basically it is because the NSA, lacking a special pay system, can’t pay computer people more than a member of Congress makes, and then only supervisors. That isn’t enough to retain top-level computer talent.

97 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:40:53pm

re: #95 Charles Johnson

Er, I think @bluejoni must have misunderstood something. Pretty sure she’s been pretty straight on the issues before. Possibly she confused you with one of our lovely stalker pals.

Ah, I cleared that up. She was “red in the face” and followed me.

98 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:40:55pm

A look at Federal pay issues.

99 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:42:45pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

Not unless you think BAH did something wrong that they knew or should have known was wrong. They got fucked by Snowden, don’t think they didn’t. They’ll have to reorg a good bit of their intell section due to the certainty that it has been compromised.

What went wrong should be looked into, but more in the way the US Army looked into Bradley Manning’s leak to Assange.

They’re making top dollar in the ‘should have known’ business. Fuck ‘em.

100 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:43:56pm

re: #97 Gus

Ah, I cleared that up. She was “red in the face” and followed me.

It happens. And some people are out there trying to make it happen too.

101 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:45:34pm
102 Gus  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:47:25pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

It happens. And some people are out there trying to make it happen too.

I hear ya’.

103 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:48:08pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Bet: The guy who goes to jail doesn’t make 200K per year.

104 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:48:37pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Which is a reason not to go after BAH until the facts are clear. If USIS improperly vetted Snowden before he worked for BAH, Booz Allan Hamilton may not have had the information available to have known the truth about Snowden.

105 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:49:02pm

Later, lizards.

106 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:50:43pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Uh … this guy is no left winger. He belongs to the Asshole Party.

I wouldn’t go “no true Scottsman” on him. He’s a bit unique and certainly strange but not unheard of.

107 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:53:23pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

So another company was contracted out to do the background checks and they’re criminal fuck ups? This is ridiculous. How did we manage to run the government before all of these contracting firms took over? Maybe we should step back and remove some of the layers of bureaucracy from all this shit.

As for not being able to pay people enough to do the work contractors are doing if they are working for the government instead of a contractor, that’s bullshit too. Since when is Congress the measure of what everyone else should be paid? And if we took a good chunk of that sweet contracting money and gave it to federal employees to do the same jobs, we could attract and keep good people who care about their country AND save some money too. The way we’re doing this now is fucking broken.

108 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:54:33pm

So, on top of that, we outsource background checks for clearances.
Awesomesauce.

109 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 5:55:49pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

So, on top of that, we outsource background checks for clearances.
Awesomesauce.

Contractor’s anthem: “It wasn’t in the specification”.

110 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:03:39pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Carlyle rears its ugly head:

“Formerly a branch of the federal government, U.S. Investigations Services LLC was spun out of the Office of Personnel Management in 1996. It was renamed USIS after it was acquired by private-equity firms Carlyle Group LP CG -2.17% and Welsh, Carson, Anderson & Stowe in early 2003 for about $1 billion. Those firms flipped the Falls Church, Va., company to fellow private-equity firm Providence four years later for about $1.5 billion.

“Providence, which specializes in buying and selling media, telecom and data companies, has since combined USIS with pre-employment-screening firm HireRight Inc., corporate-investigations firm Kroll Inc. and others under the name Altegrity Inc.”

111 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:11:38pm

re: #107 A Mom Anon

So another company was contracted out to do the background checks and they’re criminal fuck ups? This is ridiculous. How did we manage to run the government before all of these contracting firms took over? Maybe we should step back and remove some of the layers of bureaucracy from all this shit.

As for not being able to pay people enough to do the work contractors are doing if they are working for the government instead of a contractor, that’s bullshit too. Since when is Congress the measure of what everyone else should be paid? And if we took a good chunk of that sweet contracting money and gave it to federal employees to do the same jobs, we could attract and keep good people who care about their country AND save some money too. The way we’re doing this now is fucking broken.

Congress is the measure because Congress decides the pay scales for federal employees. Giving any federal position a raise requires Congress to pass legislation authorizing it. Currently, that effectively means that any raise for federal employees of the size we’re talking about would need 60 votes in the Senate and the support of the majority of House Republicans.

112 Ming  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:17:19pm

re: #9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Revealing the details of the NSA hacks in general will also show the Chinese weak spots in their network security— remember, there’s a “Great Firewall of China” for them to control information flow. So Snowden is, and this really is ironic, helping to Chinese shut down free speech.

You make an excellent point.

I have to believe that Snowden was and is fully-aware of how dedicated the PRC is to censoring and controlling information. This makes me think that his motive could have been, well, just about anything. To speculate about one possible motive that very much bothers me, I wonder if he wants to increase tensions between the USA and China. I would hate to see that happen.

I know many of us could go on and on about the evils of the PRC, e.g. their occupation and devastation of Tibet. But I hope the USA and China increase their cooperation, while we push for improvements in PRC behavior, encouraging them to be a more open society. One nice touch would be for Hong Kong to honor our mutual extradition agreement, and deliver Snowden to us, so he can spend the rest of his life in prison.

113 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:28:26pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Had to stop listening to Bill Press’ show after he called Snowden a hero. No way. How can anyone justify giving secret documents to China? I get that he disagreed with NSA’s surveillance practices, but he’s gone way beyond that now.

114 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:32:47pm

re: #113 Patricia Kayden

Had to stop listening to Bill Press’ show after he called Snowden a hero. No way. How can anyone justify giving secret documents to China? I get that he disagreed with NSA’s surveillance practices, but he’s gone way beyond that now.

Press was playing to the peanut gallery, telling left-wing activists what they want to hear, while Barack Obama is stuck telling them unpleasant truths.

heading upstairs…

115 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:50:21pm

re: #106 Killgore Trout

I wouldn’t go “no true Scottsman” on him. He’s a bit unique and certainly strange but not unheard of.

Pretty sure I’ve never heard a left winger make the “slavery was good for blacks” argument before. On the other hand I’ve heard it a lot from right wingers.

116 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 6:55:22pm

re: #113 Patricia Kayden

Had to stop listening to Bill Press’ show after he called Snowden a hero. No way. How can anyone justify giving secret documents to China? I get that he disagreed with NSA’s surveillance practices, but he’s gone way beyond that now.

Yeah, a lot of left wing pundits support Snowden and Greenwald. But there are also a lot of lefties who aren’t falling for it.

117 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 8:07:55pm

re: #60 Gus

Quick!!

Name one physical attribute most of these people have in common with one another?

You guessed it.

Ill fitting shorts…….

and they’re all morbidly obese.

118 Cap'n Magic  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 8:12:36pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Welcome to 21st century tribalism, wrapped up under the flag of the USA.

Given that whistleblowers’ as of late have a bulls-eye painted on them doesn’t help matters. And most of what goes for ‘journalism’ these days ins’t adversarial, but stenography.

If telling the truth is a crime, what does that say about our civilization?

119 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 8:21:06pm

re: #15 ProTARDISLiberal

I actually had a different pressure in mind.

Deporting a handful of PRC Students on Student Visas here.

Others have already hammered you on this remark, so please excuse my rant.

Some of those students could be mine, and your callous, boneheaded remark just makes my blood boil. None of those students, to my knowledge, have done anything to harm the USA. Some intend to make the USA their home, in fact. What good would deporting any Chinese student — just because they are Chinese — do? It would harm the students, their families and their institutions of learning. Plus, it would give Beijing plenty of PR ammo against the USA. You’d be using innocent bystanders as pawns in a geopolitical espionage game. Nothing good would come of it.

Study in the US, at least for my students, is the gamble of a lifetime. If they fuck up somehow, it would be a big disgrace — and a huge financial loss — for them and their families. You want the government to step in and fuck things up for them. Meanwhile, you complain about the government of China’s treatment of Uyghurs and Tibetans. So, it’s OK for the American government to be capricious and domineering if it involves Chinese students, but it’s not OK for Beijing to do the same to China’s ethnic minorities. Try to be a little more self-consistent, OK.

The Chinese government wants to suppress the Tibetans and Uyghurs for two main reasons: political and social. The “minorities” in the far west of China had independence from Beijing for a long time. Their culture and political sensibilities diverge significantly from Beijing’s idea of a monolithic Han-dominated State. On one hand, the CPC would be very happy to quash the political resistance in Tibet and Xinjiang by any means possible, to achieve the “harmonious society” promoted by the last administration. On the other hand, the Han-dominated national leadership would be just as happy to minimize those cultures into being quaint tourist attractions, instead of competitors (as it were) to the Han majority culture.

Finally, I’ve got a suggestion for you. Before you start bitching about Chinese students and China’s treatment of minorities, try living here for a few years. It would give you some deeper perspective, and maybe more humanity.

120 HSG  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 8:41:42pm

re: #7 Targetpracticere: #7 Targetpractice

He’ll weasel out by arguing that the documents were shown to a newspaper and not government officials, as if there’s much difference.

The Espionage Act does not make that distinction. He disclosed classified material to one or more persons without authorized clearance. That’s all it takes to violate the Act. Giving it to a newspaper is ipso facto giving it to a foreign government anyway, because they’ll read the paper. For all we know, the “reporter” may be a government operative.

121 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 8:50:27pm

re: #118 Cap’n Magic

Welcome to 21st century tribalism, wrapped up under the flag of the USA.

Given that whistleblowers’ as of late have a bulls-eye painted on them doesn’t help matters. And most of what goes for ‘journalism’ these days ins’t adversarial, but stenography.

If telling the truth is a crime, what does that say about our civilization?

Snowden is not a whistleblower.

122 Weet  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 10:20:57pm

re: 86 Abolitionist
My post about this article from a few days ago.
littlegreenfootballs.com

123 Weet  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 10:24:54pm

re: #21 otoc

I’m slightly annoyed by that tweet for the reason being I am a “folks” and I don’t need to be told what to think in spite of agreeing with the point.

Here Kurt is tweeting to his audience. If you haven’t been following the shitstorm he’s been dealing with on Twitter, you might not ‘get it’. Context.

124 Cap'n Magic  Sat, Jun 22, 2013 10:53:32pm

re: #121 wrenchwench

That’s a matter of opinion now, isn’t it?

We still don’t know what else he has yet to disclose to the world. To be judge, jury and executioner at this time is way too premature. After all, when the basis of the Supreme Court decision of State Secrets act is a lie, and given our governments own handiwork at regime change in various theaters, blow-back is inevitably going to happen.

CNN:

There is a question about whether the espionage charges will be considered political offenses. The U.S. agreement with Hong Kong makes an exception for political offenses, in which case the treaty would not apply to Snowden.
Hong Kong Executive Council member Regina Ip said authorities can arrest Snowden if his actions qualify as a crime under Hong Kong law, China’s state-run Xinhua news agency reported early Sunday.
But if his actions are deemed to be political charges, she told Xinhua, then Snowden will not be extradited.
“We will work under the framework of Hong Kong law, and won’t allow any illegal or unfair judgment,” Hong Kong Secretary of Justice Rimsky Yuen told Xinhua.

Uh, whoops….

125 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Jun 23, 2013 1:27:27am

re: #118 Cap’n Magic

Telling the truth can often be a crime. You could, say, violate a gag order from a judge and reveal the name of a rape victim. You could tell someone what was in a sealed will. Etc.

126 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Jun 23, 2013 2:02:26am

Snowden has left the building! He is on his way to Moscow, according to the South China Morning Post.

127 abolitionist  Sun, Jun 23, 2013 3:52:40am

re: #126 wheat-dogghazi

Hong Kong lets Snowden leave in move bound to infuriate U.S. Reuters

128 otoc  Sun, Jun 23, 2013 4:55:12am

re: #123 Weet

Appreciate the context for I tend not to spend time reading short bites on twitter for this reason. Tweets get broadcast like a virus and context gets mutated. Perhaps “folks” should have been #readers or something like that to help people like me disassociated with what was going on within his #. So did him telling people what he did help or did they double down like people tend to do. I’ll have to visit there….

On topic/ Snowie’s world is accelerating with China dumping him after his dump, and Russia/wiki aiding in his next or final destination. Hard to see if he had his endgame planned. Very hard to see how any would consider him a hero. Heroes tend to not run away and are judged on accuracy in reporting in cases like his, in my mind. His dump of presentation material he obviously wasn’t briefed on seemed more like a kid copying a friends homework without knowing the subject. I’m sure those who believe there shouldn’t be secrets are reinforced in their beliefs. And china managed to sidestep attention on their hackings into our sensitive systems by call America the biggest villain. Thanks Snowie. :(


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
2 days ago
Views: 107 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 271 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1