Greenwald’s Latest Snowden “Scoop:” US Spying on Latin and South America

US News • Views: 33,884

A Brazilian paper (with Glenn Greenwald’s byline no less) is reporting that Snowden leaked documents about US intel programs in Latin and South America - against Mexico, Brazil, Colombia and Venezuela. The Washington Post reports:

A Brazilian newspaper on Tuesday published an article it said is based on documents provided by the former American contractor Edward Snowden asserting that the United States has been collecting data on telephone calls and e-mails from several countries in Latin America, including important allies such as Brazil, Colombia and Mexico.

The paper, O Globo, based in Rio de Janeiro, says the documents show the National Security Agency amassed military and security data on countries such as Venezuela, an American adversary that has been accused of aiding Colombia’s Marxist rebels and maintaining close ties with Iran. But the documents also show that the agency carried out surveillance operations to unearth inside commercial information on the oil industry in Venezuela and the energy sector in Mexico, which is under state control and essentially closed to foreign investment.

U.S. officials have declined to address issues about intelligence gathering or the O Globo report, except to issue a statement saying that “we have been clear that the United States does gather foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations.”

The report on Tuesday came after O Globo on Sunday published a story contending that Brazil is a major target of the NSA’s international effort to monitor telecommunications. The newspaper said that in gathering data in Brazil, the NSA counted on the collaboration of American and Brazilian telecommunications companies, though O Globo did not name them.

Again, none of this is shocking, let alone illegal under US law.

All nations spy. It’s juvenile to think otherwise, or to think that spying is always wrong. There are plenty of good reasons to do so, including keeping tabs on potential or emerging threats, and to inform political leadership in the country doing the spying about what they believe is really going on behind closed doors - not just the public pronouncements by regimes about how their country functions.

Brazilians, Colombians, or Venezuelans might be upset with the surveillance, but do they think that other countries aren’t curious about what their governments are up to and their actions on economic or military issues - such as oil and energy production, or how the government is operating?

Does Greenwald not see the utility in the US (or any other country) trying to figure out what’s going on in Venezuela’s oil industry, and whether they’re actually capable of producing more oil, or if their reserves aren’t what they’ve stated them to be - affecting global energy prices (among other things).

He’s got such an immature worldview that it defies rational analysis. Indeed, spying is a rational behavior by state actors for that very reason - to trust but verify what’s being said and done elsewhere in the world.

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340 comments
1 HSG  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 8:06:34am

Anyone who is “shocked” by this news is an idiot. The NSA has been conducting foreign surveillance since the late 1940s. What do they think that entailed?

2 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:13:58am
US Spying on Latin and South America

It would be criminal negligence if we weren’t.

3 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:15:07am

And I’m sure they spy on us too. It’s a dirty world but ti’s the world we live in.

4 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:17:58am
5 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:18:26am

Wait, you mean the US is monitoring what goes on in other nations to see how it could affect us here?

WHEN DID THIS SHIT START?
////

6 jaunte  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:19:05am

La Sorpresa Increíble!!!

7 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:19:08am

re: #5 Kragar

It’s the end of all our libertees. //

8 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:19:36am

“…amassed military and security data on countries…” Yawn.

SOP. I seem to remember Venezuela thumbing their nose at us and playing host to Russian strategic bombers at some point within this decade. I also am old enough to remember a few things about the Cuban missile crisis. I also am quite aware of many SA countries playing nice with the current belligerent regime in Iran and something about a terrorist bombing of a synagogue in Buenos Aires. Of course, Greenwald doesn’t believe in the word terrorism.

9 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:19:58am

ZOMG WHAT NO COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD HAS EVER DONE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.//

10 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:20:06am

re: #4 dragonath

Stockton Strikes Again:

GOP Bill Would Block Federal Funding To Schools That Ban Imaginary Guns

What a fucking idiot.

11 Political Atheist  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:20:25am

Of all the “weapons” of state, including those the State department uses in it’s diplomacy, we have to remember that spying in peacetime saves lives. Prevents misunderstandings of intent. Helps avoid over estimations of threats to the state. It’s always been an embarrassment to get caught red handed. But then it’s a bit like getting caught bluffing in poker. Not all bad. Can be a good thing.

12 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:20:43am

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

But it’s all about Verizon and backdoor spying on Americans and Freedom. //

13 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:20:59am

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

ZOMG WHAT NO COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD HAS EVER DONE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.//

It makes me want to run away to China or Russia, where this kind of thing never happens.

14 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:21:05am

Did he ever return?
No, he never returned!
And his fate is still unlearned. (Poor old Eddie!)
He may wait forever
In the Transit Gulag
He’s the man who never returned!

15 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:21:45am

“Gentlemen do not read each other’s mail.”
— Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of State

fofweb.com

16 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:22:07am

re: #13 Kragar

It makes me want to run away to China or Russia, where this kind of thing never happens.

or Venezuela that beacon of freedom.

17 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:22:07am

re: #13 Kragar

I long to reside in such a free country. /

18 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:22:56am

re: #15 Decatur Deb

“Gentlemen do not read each other’s mail.”
— Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of State

fofweb.com

They have their staff do it for them.

19 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:23:11am

re: #11 Political Atheist

Since we’re not as actively engaged militarily as in years past, there have to be new sources of outrageous outrages. /

20 Randall Gross  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:24:39am

See, you used a Reaganite phrase “trust but verify” there so you are probably automatically disqualified from being able to question him in Greenwald’s mind.

21 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:25:38am

venezuela russian bombers - Google Search

Yes, let’s ignore all that. Have another toke and sing Kumbaya and it’ll all be good.

22 jaunte  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:25:51am

Oops.

CARACAS - Venezuela will purchase from China between 10 and 12 medium-range Shaanxi Y-8 transport aircraft, after taking delivery in recent weeks of 18 K-8 training aircraft previously acquired in the Asian country, a senior military official said.

laht.com

Shaanxi Y-8 Range: 5,615km
Moscow to Havana: 9,591.6 Kilometers

23 StephenMeansMe  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:27:26am

How soon before the Dynamic Duo resort to flinging poop (their own, or perhaps stolen from a government contractor) at the American flag a picture of America a picture of President Obama?

I give ‘em a week, if that.

24 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:27:37am

Anyone who was alive during the Cold War has no business being shocked, surprised, or offended by the “revelation” that the United States spies on other countries or that it can and will spy on its own citizens if it sees a reason to do so.

Have people just forgotten the 40+ years of Cold War paranoia in this country? WTF.

Yes, I have concerns about the NSA and FISA, but give me a fucking break. It’s not news to anyone that we spy on others.

25 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:29:38am

re: #24 Lidane

Anyone who was alive during the Cold War has no business being shocked, surprised, or offended by the “revelation” that the United States spies on other countries or that it can and will spy on its own citizens if it sees a reason to do so.

Have people just forgotten the 40+ years of Cold War paranoia in this country? WTF.

Yes, I have concerns about the NSA and FISA, but give me a fucking break. It’s not news to anyone that we spy on others.

Will they be surprised that those same countries have been spying on us too?

26 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:30:38am
27 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:30:49am

Derp.

28 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:31:07am

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

Will they be surprised that those same countries have been spying on us too?

Not if they listen to moose and squirrel.

29 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:31:51am

re: #25 NJDhockeyfan

Will they be surprised that those same countries have been spying on us too?

LIES! Only teh ebil American tyranny spies on others! All other countires are sweet and pure and blameless and would never think to spy on anyone.

/Greenwald

30 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:33:35am

What, you don’t think that Columbia isn’t spying on Venezuela or vice versa? Or that Brazil isn’t checking up on Argentina? Or that the US is checking on all of them?

They’re all spying. It’s an essential part of statecraft, foreign policy, and national security for each. They want to know that the information they’re getting from official channels and public sources is accurate.

Guess Snowden and Greenwald don’t like the idea of spying, but they have a funny way of showing it - by revealing all manner of US spycraft and ignoring that what they’re revealing is legal and justifiable.

It’s just meant to provoke outrage among those living in the countries being spied upon (as if they don’t have enough to worry about with their own police states and attempts by their nations’ regimes restrictions on free speech, civil liberties, and crackdowns against political opponents).

BTW, thanks Charles for the promo.

31 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:33:49am

re: #28 Decatur Deb

Not if they listen to moose and squirrel.

I’m starting to think I learned more about espionage from Moose and Squirrel (and Boris and Natasha) than Snowden and Greenwald have learned in their whole lives.

32 Death to violence!  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:34:05am

Greenwald: “US Spying on the world!!!11eleventy”
Former Soviet states + rest of world: “….and?” *Yawn * “

33 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:35:30am

re: #30 lawhawk

What, you don’t think that Columbia isn’t spying on Venezuela or vice versa? Or that Brazil isn’t checking up on Argentina? Or that the US is checking on all of them?

They’re all spying. It’s an essential part of statecraft, foreign policy, and national security for each. They want to know that the information they’re getting from official channels and public sources is accurate.

Guess Snowden and Greenwald don’t like the idea of spying, but they have a funny way of showing it - by revealing all manner of US spycraft and ignoring that what they’re revealing is legal and justifiable.

It’s just meant to provoke outrage among those living in the countries being spied upon (as if they don’t have enough to worry about with their own police states and attempts by their nations’ regimes restrictions on free speech, civil liberties, and crackdowns against political opponents).

BTW, thanks Charles for the promo.

Chile vs. Argentina. Constant border wars.

34 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:35:48am

re: #31 wrenchwench

I’m starting to think I learned more about espionage from Moose and Squirrel (and Boris and Natasha) than Snowden and Greenwald have learned in their whole lives.

Moose and Squirrel were discovered to taste quite good when properly marinated, grilled, and served with proper side dishes.

35 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:35:58am

There’s a lot of naivete about espionage and spying. We spy on allies, enemies, and everything in between. Anyone who thinks their nation is above this kind of stuff is hopelessly naive.

36 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:36:07am

I wonder if Greenwald even realizes that with every new “bombshell!” he drops, he is probably extending Snowflake’s vacation in the Transit Gulag. Or does he totally realize it and just not give a flying fuck, because Snowflake is like dogshit to him.

37 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:36:16am

Malvinas/Falklands

38 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:37:18am
39 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:37:22am

Funker Vogt even has a song about it (spying):

Youtube Video

40 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:37:30am

re: #36 Vicious Babushka

I wonder if Greenwald even realizes that with every new “bombshell!” he drops, he is probably extending Snowflake’s vacation in the Transit Gulag. Or does he totally realize it and just not give a flying fuck, because Snowflake is dogshit to him.

Snowden’s extended stay in Limbo is probably to Greenwald’s benefit since it remains an open issue he can harp upon and extend his time as a center of media attention.

41 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:38:01am

Glenn Greenwald’s bizarre view of intelligence gathering:

He actually seems to think (or maybe he’s just bullshitting, I can’t tell) that the US should only gather intelligence on people who are known to be “wrongdoers.” In fact, suspicion isn’t even enough for Glenn - he specifically says we need evidence of wrongdoing before we can do any kind of spying.

Why do people think this guy is intelligent? I’d call this world view childish, but even most children aren’t this absurdly naïve.

42 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:38:28am

re: #31 wrenchwench

I’m starting to think I learned more about espionage from Moose and Squirrel (and Boris and Natasha) than Snowden and Greenwald have learned in their whole lives.


“Know who we’re not spying on? You. We don’t want your fuckn’ guacamole recipe. Too much cilantro.”

—Cosmic Atomal desk

43 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:38:47am

re: #37 Gus

Ecuador and Peru - multiple conflicts during 20th century.

44 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:38:56am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

And how the hell does he expect that evidence to appear? Magical fairy dust? Tea leaves? Magic 8 Ball?

45 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:39:31am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Glenn Greenwald’s bizarre view of intelligence gathering:

[Embedded content]

He actually seems to think (or maybe he’s just bullshitting, I can’t tell) that the US should only gather intelligence on people who are known to be “wrongdoers.” In fact, suspicion isn’t even enough for Glenn - he specifically says we need evidence of wrongdoing before we can do any kind of spying.

Why do people think this guy is intelligent? I’d call this world view childish, but even most children aren’t this absurdly naïve.

Attack on Pearl Harbor = evidence of wrong doing! //

46 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:39:44am

re: #34 Feline Fearless Leader

Moose and Squirrel were discovered to taste quite good when properly marinated, grilled, and served with proper side dishes.

So, will you make a run for the Senate, Governor?

47 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:39:54am

re: #43 lawhawk

Ecuador and Peru - multiple conflicts during 20th century.

Columbia and FARC. Columbia and Venezuela.

48 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:40:01am

re: #43 lawhawk

Ecuador and Peru - multiple conflicts during 20th century.

And you know that Paraguay is just saving up for a rematch of taking on the rest (well almost) of South America again.
/

49 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:40:23am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Glenn Greenwald’s bizarre view of intelligence gathering:

[Embedded content]

He actually seems to think (or maybe he’s just bullshitting, I can’t tell) that the US should only gather intelligence on people who are known to be “wrongdoers.” In fact, suspicion isn’t even enough for Glenn - he specifically says we need evidence of wrongdoing before we can do any kind of spying.

Why do people think this guy is intelligent? I’d call this world view childish, but even most children aren’t this absurdly naïve.

So we’re supposed to wait for something to blow up, then figure out how to stop them?

50 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:40:48am

re: #42 Decatur Deb


“Know who we’re not spying on? You. We don’t want your fuckn’ guacamole recipe. Too much cilantro.”

—Cosmic Atomal desk

Too much cilantro? There is no such thing!

51 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:41:31am

re: #46 Decatur Deb

So, will you make a run for the Senate, Governor?

Thinking of opening a Feline Overlord staff selection cafe’ in Paris actually…

today.com

52 twisty  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:42:36am

How long’s it been since someone NOT associated with Wikileaks claimed to put eyeballs on Snowden’s face? This combined with how his correspondence doesn’t appear to be written by an American is. Worrying?

53 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:43:06am

re: #49 Kragar

So we’re supposed to wait for something to blow up, then figure out how to stop them?

Ah, 9-11 policy?!?
//////

54 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:43:08am

re: #49 Kragar

So we’re supposed to wait for something to blow up, then figure out how to stop them?

You betcha!

55 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:43:11am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

He’s got it in for signals intelligence (SIGINT), which is the bulk of what the NSA programs he’s chosen to reveal are about. Never mind that the intel can glean details about trends, emerging threats, etc.

He’s attempting to hold SIGINT to a standard that simply doesn’t exist.

Nations spy.

Nations will spy by any means at their disposal.

Countries without the technological means will rely primarily on human intelligence assets. Those who have tech means will have listening posts, tap lines, etc.

Those, like the US, Russia, and a handful of others will use all those means, plus satellite information to glean as much information as possible.

And all of it is legal.

56 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:43:18am

re: #52 twisty

How long’s it been since someone NOT associated with Wikileaks claimed to put eyeballs on Snowden’s face? This combined with how his correspondence doesn’t appear to be written by an American is. Worrying?

Snowden has not been seen since he left Hong Kong.

57 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:43:43am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Glenn Greenwald’s bizarre view of intelligence gathering:

[Embedded content]

He actually seems to think (or maybe he’s just bullshitting, I can’t tell) that the US should only gather intelligence on people who are known to be “wrongdoers.” In fact, suspicion isn’t even enough for Glenn - he specifically says we need evidence of wrongdoing before we can do any kind of spying.

Why do people think this guy is intelligent? I’d call this world view childish, but even most children aren’t this absurdly naïve.

If we did things his way, we would never prevent any terrorist acts. The man’s naivete or I’d go stronger and call it stupidity is maddening.

58 Death to violence!  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:43:58am
59 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:44:03am

re: #55 lawhawk

He’s got it in for signals intelligence (SIGINT), which is the bulk of what the NSA programs he’s chosen to reveal are about. Never mind that the intel can glean details about trends, emerging threats, etc.

He’s attempting to hold SIGINT to a standard that simply doesn’t exist.

Nations spy.

Nations will spy by any means at their disposal.

Countries without the technological means will rely primarily on human intelligence assets. Those who have tech means will have listening posts, tap lines, etc.

Those, like the US, Russia, and a handful of others will use all those means, plus satellite information to glean as much information as possible.

And all of it is legal.

He must think SIGINT and codebreaking is some sort of MAGIC.
:p

60 b.d.  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:44:12am

OMG and by looking at a map I can see that we have Direct Access to Mexico too.

61 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:44:37am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

How terrifyingly naive of him. Just goes to show that neither him nor Snowden understand the first bloody thing about intelligence.

62 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:45:07am
63 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:45:26am

re: #61 thedopefishlives

How terrifyingly naive of him. Just goes to show that neither him nor Snowden understand the first bloody thing about intelligence.

It’s basic stuff too.

64 jaunte  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:45:53am
65 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:45:54am

re: #56 Vicious Babushka

Snowden has not been seen since he left Hong Kong.

Maybe Snowden doesn’t actually exist. He’s a gigantic false flag operation on the scale of Operation: Mincemeat.

Though the shoddy details of his employment background show a shocking lack of logic in its formation since they are practically unbelievable.
//

66 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:46:14am

re: #56 Vicious Babushka

Snowden has not been seen since he left Hong Kong.

I haven’t seen him since before he left Hawaii.

67 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:47:26am

re: #64 jaunte

Zimmermann Telegram

You’re crossing the streams!!

/

68 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:48:20am
69 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:49:25am

re: #68 Kragar

Fox News host: Ban new mosques until we find out ‘who is not a terrorist’

Seriously?

FOAD.

And that’s Bob Beckel, a Faux News token “liberal”.

70 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:49:36am

re: #51 Feline Fearless Leader

Thinking of opening a Feline Overlord staff selection cafe’ in Paris actually…

today.com

Venice is completely given over to cats.

Image: 2117832127_17e1f67886.jpg
worldcatcongress.org

71 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:50:57am

re: #68 Kragar

Fox News host: Ban new mosques until we find out ‘who is not a terrorist’

Seriously?

FOAD.

Seriously, people. This wasn’t even acceptable in 2001. It’s 2013 now. Grow up or take your bigotry elsewhere.

72 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:52:07am

re: #71 thedopefishlives

Seriously, people. This wasn’t even acceptable in 2001. It’s 2013 now. Grow up or take your bigotry elsewhere.

Not only acceptable, but highly profitable. We are not what we thought we were.

73 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:52:21am

re: #71 thedopefishlives

Seriously, people. This wasn’t even acceptable in 2001. It’s 2013 now. Grow up or take your bigotry elsewhere.

I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over all of the RELIGIOUS FREEDOM™ that the right wing is always crying about.

Into the fucking sun. All of them.

74 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:54:06am

re: #72 Decatur Deb

Not only acceptable, but highly profitable. We are not what we thought we were.

I love the US and its fundamental freedom of speech, but sometimes I really wish we had legal recourse against people who are this plain fucking retarded. And their little dogs, too.

75 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:54:42am

Meanwhile, to no one’s great surprise, Andrew Sullivan is white-splaining away the explicit racism of Rand Paul’s neo-Confederate staffer, “The Southern Avenger.”

Another Paul, Another Secessionist Smear?

My favorite part (Sullivan quoting the paleolibertarians at American Conservative):

Hunter’s columns were provocative and conservative, but anyone who reads them, while finding plenty to disagree with—he’s an independent thinker—will not find hate. Naivete, yes, and a certain obtuseness about minorities that’s long been characteristic of the right.

“A certain obtuseness about minorities.” Snort.

76 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:54:52am

re: #74 thedopefishlives

I love the US and its fundamental freedom of speech, but sometimes I really wish we had legal recourse against people who are this plain fucking retarded. And their little dogs, too.

1A is a two-faced bitch.

77 Death to violence!  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:55:06am

re: #69 Lidane

And that’s Bob Beckel, a Faux News token “liberal”.

If that dude’s a liberal, then I’m the queen of England…

78 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:55:44am

re: #77 Archangelus

If that dude’s a liberal, then I’m the queen of England…

Your Majesty, allow me to introduce myself. I am the Czarina of Tokyo.

79 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:55:54am

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, to no one’s great surprise, Andrew Sullivan is white-splaining away the explicit racism of Rand Paul’s neo-Confederate staffer, “The Southern Avenger.”

Another Paul, Another Secessionist Smear?

My favorite part (Sullivan quoting the paleolibertarians at American Conservative):

“A certain obtuseness about minorities.” Snort.

So THAT’S what they’re calling it these days.

80 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:55:59am

Related somewhat….

81 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:56:09am

re: #70 Decatur Deb

Venice is completely given over to cats.

Image: 2117832127_17e1f67886.jpg
worldcatcongress.org

Seen some reports that felines (especially ferals) are carriers of a couple of parasites (gotten from eating infected small animals) whose eggs end up in feline feces. A known issue and the reason medical advice is against pregnant women and small children handling litterbox duties. The recent research is mainly that there are more parasite eggs there than previously believed and that the parasites are also wider spread as well.

82 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:57:20am

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, to no one’s great surprise, Andrew Sullivan is white-splaining away the explicit racism of Rand Paul’s neo-Confederate staffer, “The Southern Avenger.”

Another Paul, Another Secessionist Smear?

My favorite part (Sullivan quoting the paleolibertarians at American Conservative):

“A certain obtuseness about minorities.” Snort.

Dear Mr. Sullivan,

Please explain what the Southern Avenger is avenging exactly.

83 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:57:24am

DERP
Does Bryan really believe all the shit he spews or is he just trolling?

84 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:57:58am

re: #73 GunstarGreen

I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over all of the RELIGIOUS FREEDOM™ that the right wing is always crying about.

Into the fucking sun. All of them.

And, for the record, the right wing has always been “religious freedom for me, but not for thee.” Remember, the Founding Fathers were all Christians, they intended for the government to be Christian and that separation of church and state was to prevent non-Christian religions from taking over.

Ugh, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth just saying that. It’s amazing that I even used to believe it.

85 jaunte  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:57:58am

re: #75 Charles Johnson

The Southern Avenger: John Wilkes Booth Was Right

“Imagine you entered into an agreement with a friend.
Your friend then decides to gain the upper hand at your expense.
[BY TAKING AWAY YOUR SLAVES]
For your own good, you decide to back out and go your own way.”
southernavenger.com

86 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:58:01am

re: #74 thedopefishlives

I love the US and its fundamental freedom of speech, but sometimes I really wish we had legal recourse against people who are this plain fucking retarded. And their little dogs, too.

We have nice laws. We seem to have a lot of citizens who act like they don’t deserve them. Or are simply too stupid to understand the ramifications of bending them into pretzels in order to be bigoted idiots.

87 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:58:41am

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

DERP
Does Bryan really believe all the shit he spews or is he just trolling?

[Embedded content]

Its hard to be a White Christian Male in the South nowadays.
///

88 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:59:08am

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

Real men don’t see equal rights and civil liberties as a threat.

89 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:59:32am


Yeah, that’ll work.
///

90 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:59:48am

re: #84 thedopefishlives

And, for the record, the right wing has always been “religious freedom for me, but not for thee.” Remember, the Founding Fathers were all Christians, they intended for the government to be Christian and that separation of church and state was to prevent non-Christian religions from taking over.

Ugh, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth just saying that. It’s amazing that I even used to believe it.

They were just learning from the example of the English Civil War where Islam almost took over England as the sole state-supported religion.
//// ;P

91 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:59:54am

re: #78 Kragar

Your Majesty, allow me to introduce myself. I am the Czarina of Tokyo.

Heh. Wife of my buddy in Yongsan, Korea got a part on a long-term KBS soap opera. She gave her few lines after phonetic practice, but got away with it because she played the wife of the Russian ambassador in the early 1900s.

92 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:00:41pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Oh, being “an independent thinker” makes it all okay. Thanks for clearing that Sully.

93 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:02:26pm
94 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:03:33pm

re: #93 Gus

He’s still more coherent than the average RWNJ. Heh.

95 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:04:47pm

re: #93 Gus

[Embedded content]

Does this mean I can’t be a Belieber? Little shit should fall deeply in love with Lindsey Lohan.

96 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:05:02pm

Notice that the American Conservative (and Sullivan co-signs it) is also trying to claim that the “Southern Avenger’s” mask is just a luchador mask, a Mexican wrestler’s mask, and not a Dixie flag at all:

Daniel McCarthy cites the most inflammatory nugget that Goodman found - that “during public appearances, Hunter often wore a mask on which was printed a Confederate flag.” Not quite as it sounds:

Free Beacon’s attack on Hunter involves cherry-picking quotes, many over a decade old, and referencing his career as the “Southern Avenger,” a pro-wrestling persona, complete with luchador mask, that Hunter adopted as an on-air radio personality and as a columnist for the Charleston City Paper.

Right. Here’s that “luchador mask.”

97 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:05:32pm
98 b.d.  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:06:08pm

re: #80 NJDhockeyfan

Related somewhat….

[Embedded content]

#BREAKING: Defense rests in court-martial of Pfc. Bradley Manning, who gave classified info to #WikiLeaks

Thus answering the age old question: How many leaking heroes can the true progressives pay attention to at one time?

99 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:07:12pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

Notice that the American Conservative (and Sullivan co-signs it) is also trying to claim that the “Southern Avenger’s” mask is just a luchador mask, a Mexican wrestler’s mask, and not a Dixie flag at all:

Right. Here’s that “luchador mask.”

Fuck him and the blockade runner he rode in on.

100 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:08:07pm

re: #97 Gus

[Embedded content]

A future boyband?

101 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:08:20pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, to no one’s great surprise, Andrew Sullivan is white-splaining away the explicit racism of Rand Paul’s neo-Confederate staffer, “The Southern Avenger.”

Another Paul, Another Secessionist Smear?

My favorite part (Sullivan quoting the paleolibertarians at American Conservative):

“A certain obtuseness about minorities.” Snort.

Sullivan finds convenient backup from Chait, Weigel, and yet another bigot at TAC.

102 Mattand  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:08:46pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, to no one’s great surprise, Andrew Sullivan is white-splaining away the explicit racism of Rand Paul’s neo-Confederate staffer, “The Southern Avenger.”

Another Paul, Another Secessionist Smear?

My favorite part (Sullivan quoting the paleolibertarians at American Conservative):

“A certain obtuseness about minorities.” Snort.

re: #92 lawhawk

Oh, being “an independent thinker” makes it all okay. Thanks for clearing that Sully.

Just finished Bioshock Infinite last week. Early on, the game is loaded with “independent thinkers.” (Link is spoiler free, but the website isn’t.)

103 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:08:53pm

re: #99 Decatur Deb

Right. Here’s that “luchador mask.”

Fuck him and the blockade runner he rode in on.

It was a counselor’s ship on a diplomatic mission.

104 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:08:58pm

Oh, on the topic of Confederate flags and douchecanoes, everyone already knows that the fishfolk are all fairly extreme conservatives. However, I was very impressed with them on one score. We went to the county fair, and on the way back, there was a cluster of teenage d-bags coming up the street. Two of them were wearing Confederate flags as capes. Without exception, everyone in our party commented on how those flags had no place in Indiana. My mom even launched into a “Kids these days” rant that made me laugh aloud.

105 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:09:01pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

Notice that the American Conservative (and Sullivan co-signs it) is also trying to claim that the “Southern Avenger’s” mask is just a luchador mask, a Mexican wrestler’s mask, and not a Dixie flag at all:

Right. Here’s that “luchador mask.”

Luchador mask — Google image search I don’t see any Confederate flags at all. Is that because I have “safe search” enabled?

106 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:10:47pm

Wait. I thought that the CSA flag was basically the flag of old time Democrats. So now it’s yet again being defended by Republicans. I’m cornfused.

107 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:12:04pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Sullivan finds convenient backup from Chait, Weigel, and yet another bigot at TAC.

I was surprised to see Chait in there trying to rehabilitate Hunter too.

108 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:12:33pm

re: #83 Vicious Babushka

time to restore manhood to America:

Hmmm. And how exactly would we do that? /

109 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:13:05pm

re: #108 Bulworth

Hmmm. And how exactly would we do that? /

First, collect all the foreskins…

110 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:13:09pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

Notice that the American Conservative (and Sullivan co-signs it) is also trying to claim that the “Southern Avenger’s” mask is just a luchador mask, a Mexican wrestler’s mask, and not a Dixie flag at all:

Right. Here’s that “luchador mask.”

Are they trying to imply that there might be some sort of negative connotations to displaying the Confederate flag?
/

111 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:13:45pm

re: #109 Vicious Babushka

First, collect all the foreskins…

makes it easier to insert the mandatory probes…

112 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:13:54pm

re: #109 Vicious Babushka

First, collect all the foreskins…

Yeah, its a wallet, but rub it a little and you get a steamer trunk.

THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT!

113 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:14:04pm

The party of Lincoln hates Lincoln. Got it.

114 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:14:31pm

re: #106 Gus

We have always been at war with Eastasia Eurasia.

115 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:16:29pm

re: #113 Gus

There’s nothing wrong with the Confederate flag because it’s heritage but that Confederate flag on my face isn’t a Confederate flag it’s a Mexican thing wrestler persona. //

116 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:16:31pm

re: #113 Gus

The party of Lincoln hates Lincoln. Got it.

The Party of Lincoln is now The Party of Jefferson Davis. It’s been that way for a while now, but the 2008 election made it blatantly obvious.

117 Mattand  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:17:26pm

re: #104 thedopefishlives

Oh, on the topic of Confederate flags and douchecanoes, everyone already knows that the fishfolk are all fairly extreme conservatives. However, I was very impressed with them on one score. We went to the county fair, and on the way back, there was a cluster of teenage d-bags coming up the street. Two of them were wearing Confederate flags as capes. Without exception, everyone in our party commented on how those flags had no place in Indiana. My mom even launched into a “Kids these days” rant that made me laugh aloud.

I know this is probably a Godwin, but at this point, isn’t proudly waving a Confederate flag no different than waving a Nazi one?

I mean, seriously, the CSA committed treason and fought like hell to hold on to their “peculiar institution”. 160 years worth of denial is long enough.

118 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:17:53pm

re: #115 Bulworth

There’s nothing wrong with the Confederate flag because it’s heritage but that Confederate flag on my face isn’t a Confederate flag it’s a Mexican thing wrestler persona. //

WELL A LOT OF CONFEDERATES WENT TO MEXICO AFTER THAT TEMPORARY SETBACK, TO REGROUP AND REARM…

119 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:19:17pm

Some good news out of the Senate.

Senate committee: You can’t be fired for being gay

After an almost 40-year effort for gay rights advocates, it took a Senate committee less than a half hour on Wednesday to pass a measure that would end workplace discrimination.

Of course it has to make it through the House and Boehner is at best, cool to this Legislation.

120 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:19:57pm

re: #117 Mattand

I know this is probably a Godwin, but at this point, isn’t proudly waving a Confederate flag no different than waving a Nazi one?

I mean, seriously, the CSA committed treason and fought like hell to hold on to their “peculiar institution”. 160 years worth of denial is long enough.

Anyone who flies a Confederate flag hates America.

121 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:20:27pm

re: #116 Lidane

Frederick Douglass and Abe Lincoln and MLK were always big fans of Jeff Davis. //

122 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:20:40pm
123 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:21:02pm

re: #119 Bubblehead II

Some good news out of the Senate.

Senate committee: You can’t be fired for being gay

After an almost 40-year effort for gay rights advocates, it took a Senate committee less than a half hour on Wednesday to pass a measure that would end workplace discrimination.

Of course it has to make it through the House and Boehner is at best, cool to this Legislation.

Here comes the inevitable “you’re oppressing Christians from exercising their religion” push back.

124 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:22:13pm

re: #120 Kragar

Anyone who flies a Confederate flag hates America.

I can’t disagree with that assertion.

Not one iota.

125 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:23:21pm

re: #120 Kragar

Anyone who flies a Confederate flag hates America.

And we’re done here. Nailed it.

126 sliv_the_eli  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:23:24pm

re: #56 Vicious Babushka

Snowden has not been seen since he left Hong Kong.

Look for the man in the cowboy hat. The Pakistanis say it worked for OBL.

//

127 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:23:50pm

There’s nothing wrong with the Confederate flag and The South Was Right!!!!! but no, that is not a Confederate hat I’m wearing in the anti-IRS protest thing and no, that is not a Confederate flag mask I’m wearing and why are you even alledging such awful terrible things trying to smear us? //

128 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:25:13pm

re: #120 Kragar

Anyone who flies a Confederate flag hates America.

Suggest you skip the Stone Mountain laser show.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

129 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:25:14pm

re: #107 Charles Johnson

I was surprised to see Chait in there trying to rehabilitate Hunter too.

Maybe he’ll figure this thing out before embarrassing himself further. The title of his piece indicates he doesn’t grasp it yet: Racists Love Ron and Rand Paul for Some Reason. In it, he goes part way there:

Now, obviously, you can like Ron and Rand Paul without being the slightest bit racist. Very, very few Rand Paul fans are glad Abraham Lincoln was shot. At the same time, the logic of southern white supremacy and the logic of libertarianism run along very similar lines. They both express themselves in terms of opposition to federal power and support for states’ rights.

If he keeps digging that hole, eventually he’ll find more similarities, like needing to lie about reality to maintain that ideology.

130 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:25:26pm

Southern Pride, an oxymoron if there was one.

What does the South have to be proud of?

131 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:26:28pm

re: #123 Kragar

Here comes the inevitable “you’re oppressing Christians from exercising their religion” push back.

ENDA Religious Exemption - Fact Sheet

The Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) includes a broad exemption for religious organizations. ENDA’s religious exemption recognizes that the U.S. Constitution protects certain employment decisions of religious organizations and that some religious organizations may have a specific and significant religious reason to make employment decisions, even those that take an individual’s sexual orientation or gender identity into account. It also acknowledges that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) employees of religious organizations should be aware that they could lose their jobs, even jobs that do not serve a clearly religious function, because of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Of course this will not stop them from belly aching about.

132 Mattand  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:27:04pm

re: #130 Kragar

Southern Pride, an oxymoron if there was one.

What does the South have to be proud of?

You can be proud of being from the South. It’s Confederate pride thing that’s the problem.

133 b.d.  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:27:45pm

So Greenwald writes for O Globo as a hobby? Kinda like his buddy Howard Kurtz wrote for The Daily Download?

Nice of The Guardian to let him have some side gigs.

134 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:27:49pm

re: #93 Gus

Is this how they do things in Canada?

135 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:29:11pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

Very, very few Rand Paul fans are glad Abraham Lincoln was shot.

Assuming facts not in evidence, etc.

136 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:29:15pm

re: #132 Mattand

You can be proud of being from the South. It’s Confederate pride thing that’s the problem.

Some serious work needs to be put into separating the two.

137 Mattand  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:29:23pm

re: #133 b.d.

So Greenwald writes for O Globo as a hobby? Kinda like his buddy Howard Kurtz wrote for The Daily Download?

Nice of The Guardian to let him have some side gigs.

I’d like to think that the Guardian looked at the O Globo piece and said “This is your big scoop? Seriously? Pass.”

138 geoffm33  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:29:43pm


(D’oh! BPD upside down picture)

139 twisty  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30:19pm

re: #130 Kragar

Southern Pride, an oxymoron if there was one.

What does the South have to be proud of?

A great deal of praiseworthy people hail from the South. Much to be proud of. The Confederacy and slaveowning do not fit in that category.

140 geoffm33  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:30:37pm

@JimArmstrongWBZ is live tweeting the arraignment proceedings

141 b.d.  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:31:20pm

re: #137 Mattand

I’d like to think that the Guardian looked at the O Globo piece and said “This is your big scoop? Seriously? Pass.”

Maybe your story will look more exciting in Portuguese

142 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:31:28pm

O Globo - Censorship

In 1994, just a day before the premiere in Brazil of the British documentary Beyond Citizen Kane, at the Rio de Janeiro Modern Art Museum, the Military Police confiscated the copy of the film, obeying a court warrant in response to a suit filed by Globo. The film explored the establishment of Rede Globo, the largest television broadcaster in the country, and its ties to the military dictatorship of the period. The director of the museum was threatened with a heavy fine in case of disobedience. Due to the public outcry about the censorship, the Secretary of Culture of Rio de Janeiro was fired three days after the incident.[1]

In 1995, Globo requested in court the confiscation of copies available at the library of the University of São Paulo, but the claim was overruled. The film was restricted to University groups until the 2000s (decade). Globo’s attempt to prevent release of the film in Brazil proved to be a failure following the Internet boom in the 2000s (decade). Through the 1990s, the film was illegally screened in universities and political groups without public notice, and later it went “viral” on the Internet.

On August 20, 2009, the newspaper Folha de S. Paulo reported that Rede Record bought the broadcasting rights of the documentary for less than US$ 20,000. This followed a series of mutual attacks between Globo and Record because of Globo’s reporting of a Public Ministry investigation of Edir Macedo and other high-profile members of the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God. Macedo has owned Rede Record since November 9, 1989.

143 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:31:59pm

re: #139 twisty

A great deal of praiseworthy people hail from the South. Much to be proud of. The Confederacy and slaveowning do not fit in that category.

Far fewer than half of Americans die in the state of their birth. Time to put the whole divisive, anti-American concept to sleep.

144 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:31:59pm

re: #138 geoffm33

[Embedded content]


(D’oh! BPD upside down picture)

Yeah, for a second there, I was wondering if gravity had reversed when that picture was taken.

145 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:32:36pm

Helen Keller was pretty cool. Not too many people noticed that they snuck a strong-willed pacifistic socialist as the representative for the Alabama state quarter.

146 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:33:08pm

re: #139 twisty

A great deal of praiseworthy people hail from the South. Much to be proud of. The Confederacy and slaveowning do not fit in that category.

And yet they aren’t on the top of the list when people who bring up Southern Pride start talking about it.

147 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:33:19pm

re: #145 dragonath

Helen Keller was pretty cool. Not too many people noticed that they snuck a strong-willed pacifistic socialist as the representative for the Alabama state quarter.

Bad enough she had ladyparts.

148 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:33:52pm

re: #137 Mattand

I’d like to think that the Guardian looked at the O Globo piece and said “This is your big scoop? Seriously? Pass.”

Greenwald deliberately went to O Globo because he wants to stir up the maximum amount of anger against the US in Latin/South America.

149 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:34:12pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Far fewer than half of Americans die in the state of their birth. Time to put the whole divisive, anti-American concept to sleep.

I have nothing against having pride in one’s birthplace. It’s part of the same function as patriotism (pride in one’s country). Some roots run deep. However, many people take this to an almost fanatical obsession that their chosen place is superior to all others, and how DARE anyone criticize any aspect of their home. And that’s just stupid.

150 twisty  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:35:23pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Far fewer than half of Americans die in the state of their birth. Time to put the whole divisive, anti-American concept to sleep.

By “hail from” I also mean to include people who moved there. I admit the post also made me feel defensive. But point taken.

151 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:35:47pm

re: #149 thedopefishlives

I have nothing against having pride in one’s birthplace. It’s part of the same function as patriotism (pride in one’s country). Some roots run deep. However, many people take this to an almost fanatical obsession that their chosen place is superior to all others, and how DARE anyone criticize any aspect of their home. And that’s just stupid.

Pennsylvanian living in Alabama. Lest I get smug, I can meditate on that idiot in Harrisburg.

152 twisty  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:36:27pm

re: #146 Kragar

And yet they aren’t on the top of the list when people who bring up Southern Pride start talking about it.

No, and that’s a shame.

153 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:37:23pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

Pennsylvanian living in Alabama. Lest I get smug, I can meditate on that idiot in Harrisburg.

Californian (Los Angeleno, specifically) living in the Czech Republic. Us Americans……we’re like bad pennies. We turn up everywhere.

154 Slap  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:37:32pm

Back on-topic:

I lived in West Berlin in the ’80s, before the fall of the Wall, as a US contractor employee. We were all VERY aware that the NSA was regularly monitoring calls in and out of Berlin, listening for key phrases.

And I encountered no one who was surprised or distressed at this idea.

I also interacted frequently with the folks who operated the only NATO listening post that was INSIDE an Iron Curtain country, at Teufelsburg. They worked 12-plus hour shifts, listening to mostly static in case something more substantial emerged. (Hardest-drinking group of folks I ever met. ATCs were next, but that’s another tale…)

This was life during the Cold War. We all took it in stride, and were grateful someone was watching this stuff. I still am, but — fwiw — I have always thought that the Patriot Act was an insane, half-assed overreaction with far too little resistance up front, and too little accountability on the back.

That didn’t make me many friends post-9/11, lemme tell ya. (My regular assertion that folks who allowed their US flags flying from their cars to get ratty and filthy were showing disrespect, not patriotism, also didn’t go over well. )

But my point is that this is NOTHING NEW. More sweeping, perhaps, but not new.

155 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:38:02pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

Pennsylvanian living in Alabama. Lest I get smug, I can meditate on that idiot in Harrisburg.

Yeah, the mastermind of giving tax credits to fracking interests just to extract Pennsylvania’s limited natural resources.

156 geoffm33  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:38:04pm

re: #144 Targetpractice

Yeah, for a second there, I was wondering if gravity had reversed when that picture was taken.

Gravity still causing issues, but getting better:

157 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:38:40pm
158 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:40:06pm

re: #156 geoffm33

Gravity still causing issues, but getting better:

[Embedded content]

Boston just had wonky gravity right now?

/

159 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:40:24pm

re: #157 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Standard Operating Procedure. No surprise to me, to be honest.

160 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:41:42pm

re: #157 Lidane

Haven’t been following this. Representing himself, public defender, or has some group supplied him with a lawyer?

161 geoffm33  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:42:05pm

re: #158 Targetpractice

Boston just had wonky gravity right now?

/

Must have been, I’m over in Cambridge atm, but the gravity over here is always wonky.

162 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:42:12pm

re: #157 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Yet another one to add to my list.

163 Death to violence!  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:43:00pm

re: #116 Lidane

The Party of Lincoln is now The Party of Jefferson Davis. It’s been that way for a while now, but the 2008 election made it blatantly obvious.

As a friend of mine has been saying since Obama first got elected, it’s no longer the party of Lincoln, it’s the party of Crazy Boris…

Source: SA 390

164 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:43:15pm

re: #154 Slap

Back on-topic:

I lived in West Berlin in the ’80s, before the fall of the Wall, as a US contractor employee. We were all VERY aware that the NSA was regularly monitoring calls in and out of Berlin, listening for key phrases.

And I encountered no one who was surprised or distressed at this idea.

I also interacted frequently with the folks who operated the only NATO listening post that was INSIDE an Iron Curtain country, at Teufelsburg. They worked 12-plus hour shifts, listening to mostly static in case something more substantial emerged. (Hardest-drinking group of folks I ever met. ATCs were next, but that’s another tale…)

This was life during the Cold War. We all took it in stride, and were grateful someone was watching this stuff. I still am, but — fwiw — I have always thought that the Patriot Act was an insane, half-assed overreaction with far too little resistance up front, and too little accountability on the back.

That didn’t make me many friends post-9/11, lemme tell ya. (My regular assertion that folks who allowed their US flags flying from their cars to get ratty and filthy were showing disrespect, not patriotism, also didn’t go over well. )

But my point is that this is NOTHING NEW. More sweeping, perhaps, but not new.

Our command in Italy included Greece and Turkey in our AOR. When I got there we supported a location that was not lightly mentioned. Three years later, guys were showing up at the airport in the BTDT t-shirt.

165 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:43:51pm

Its a simple enough procedure. Its got written documentation and anyone who works with computers should recognize the logic.

You update the software, then you reboot the system to verify everything updates and loaded properly.

We just learned our team problem child had been rebooting, then updating the software.

And he’ll probably be surprised when his contract isn’t extended in September.

166 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:44:28pm
167 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:45:02pm

And…


Oh brother.

168 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:45:48pm

re: #165 Kragar

Its a simple enough procedure. Its got written documentation and anyone who works with computers should recognize the logic.

You update the software, then you reboot the system to verify everything updates and loaded properly.

We just learned our team problem child had been rebooting, then updating the software.

And he’ll probably be surprised when his contract isn’t extended in September.

I would have thought you would have been suspicious when he started showing up to work with his socks on over his shoes.
//

169 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:47:38pm

re: #168 Feline Fearless Leader

I would have thought you would have been suspicious when he started showing up to work with his socks on over his shoes.
//

The team is spread out across the country. Ideally, we would have an 8 man team to properly cover this part of the the job.

We’ve got 3.

170 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:48:28pm

re: #169 Kragar

The team is spread out across the country. Ideally, we would have an 8 man team to properly cover this part of the the job.

We’ve got 3.

Ah.. You work for job creators.

171 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:48:37pm

re: #167 Gus

Let’s use up all the energy we have as quickly as possible! Of course the states producing the stuff would be boned.

172 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:48:42pm

re: #167 Gus

Glad our House is staying atop such important and pressing matters.

173 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:49:09pm

Tungsten forever!

174 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:49:49pm

re: #171 dragonath

Let’s use up all the energy we have as quickly as possible! Of course the states producing the stuff would be boned.

The USA no longer manufactures any incandescent light bulbs. China is the remaining manufacturer and they’re phasing out production.

175 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:49:51pm

re: #44 Lidane

And how the hell does he expect that evidence to appear? Magical fairy dust? Tea leaves? Magic 8 Ball?

Reply hazy try again

176 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:50:11pm

re: #171 dragonath

Let’s use up all the energy we have as quickly as possible! Of course the states producing the stuff would be boned.

Do you have a few moments to discuss the Second Coming?

177 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:50:39pm

Radium clock faces! More fun to lick!

178 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:50:55pm

re: #170 Decatur Deb

Ah.. You work for job creators.

Always fun to hear we can’t afford new hires and then see an article where an exec got a multimillion dollar bonus for a deal which fell apart in a matter of weeks.

179 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:51:51pm

re: #177 dragonath

Radium clock faces! More fun to lick!

Orange Fiestaware. Radium paint, what could possibly go wrong?!

180 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:51:54pm

re: #160 Feline Fearless Leader

Haven’t been following this. Representing himself, public defender, or has some group supplied him with a lawyer?

Haven’t followed much either. Apparently he has two defense attorneys, but I don’t know if they’re public defenders or doing the work pro bono to give him some kind of defense at all.

181 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:52:23pm

re: #174 Gus

The USA no longer manufactures any incandescent light bulbs. China is the remaining manufacturer and they’re phasing out production.

Once again, reality thwarts the Republicans.

182 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:53:08pm

re: #179 thedopefishlives

Orange Fiestaware. Radium paint, what could possibly go wrong?!

You kids today are wusses. We built and ran an x-ray in HS Physics. FACT.

183 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:53:27pm

Colorado is “more tyrannical than communist China and maybe even North Korea”

After blaming the recent Colorado wildfires on women wearing hats and pants and gay people kissing, Colorado pastors and Generations Radio hosts Kevin Swanson and Dave Buehner warned yesterday that things in Colorado are getting even worse.

Swanson said that Colorado is “more tyrannical than communist China and maybe even North Korea” as a result of new pro-choice and gay rights laws, and is even on its way to becoming “the worst possible hellhole on planet earth.” “Their vision for Colorado is a drugged-out, marijuana’d-out, homosexual culture where children are abused as much as possible,” Swanson claimed, “this is the vision of the Democrats.”

184 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:53:44pm

re: #182 Decatur Deb

Is that why you glow in the dark?

185 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:54:03pm

re: #183 Kragar

These guys are just a riot, a laugh a minute.

186 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:54:34pm

re: #183 Kragar

Colorado is “more tyrannical than communist China and maybe even North Korea”

But Texas and North Carolina running roughshod all over women? A-OK.

187 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:55:13pm

re: #184 dragonath

Is that why you glow in the dark?

It’s why I have the dermatologist check my hands carefully.

188 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:55:26pm

re: #185 Bulworth

These guys are just a riot, a laugh a minute.

I just want to know where all these orgies in the street are happening, because I always seem to miss out on them.

189 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:56:21pm

re: #186 Lidane

But Texas and North Carolina running roughshod all over women? A-OK.

No, that is all for the health of the womans and baybees.

190 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:56:41pm

re: #167 Gus

And…


Oh brother.

This has nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with the fact that most of the CFLs are currently made in China and imported since GE dropped the ball on these a few decades back. (The first spiral CFL was invented by a GE engineer back in *1976*. But GE shelved it rather than spending millions to build a plant to make it.)

191 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:58:52pm
192 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:59:14pm

DERP

193 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:59:25pm

Hmm. And I also realize that I have a dozen or so 100w incandescent bulbs I inherited. Been using them up slowly in one lamp that I generally need brighter light at. The rest of the apartment has been all CFLs for years.

Maybe I should squirrel them away for a decade and then turn them lose on Ebay.
;P

194 twisty  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:59:26pm

re: #183 Kragar

Marijuana-soaked gay paradise you say? I’ll take three.

195 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 12:59:52pm

re: #183 Kragar

“Their vision for Colorado is a drugged-out, marijuana’d-out..”

So some people smoking marijuana equals Tyranny?

196 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:00:33pm

re: #192 Kragar

Just like child abuse except it’s not.

197 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:01:25pm

re: #192 Kragar

Because Bryan Fischer says so.

But cutting off a family’s food stamps is not.

//

198 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:01:48pm

re: #195 Bulworth

“Their vision for Colorado is a drugged-out, marijuana’d-out..”

So some people smoking marijuana equals Tyranny?

The right for people to engage in activities you disapprove of and are under no obligation to perform yourself is the harshest form of tyranny.
/

199 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:02:02pm

re: #183 Kragar

Those jackbags need to go and play “Hide and go fuck yourself.”

Preferably with a Bangalore Torpedo.

200 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:02:19pm

re: #196 Bulworth

Just like child abuse except it’s not.

Being raised by a religious zealot is child abuse.

201 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:02:50pm

Labrador: Dems Are At Fault If Immigration Plan Fails

Rep. Raul Labrador (R-ID) said Democrats, specifically New York Sen. Chuck Schumer, and not Republicans, are to blame for the current troubles plaguing immigration reform in Congress.

“If Chuck Schumer is not going to pass anything unless he gets 100 percent of what he wants, then he’s the one who’s killing immigration reform,” Labrador said on MSNBC’s NOW with Alex Wagner. “He’s the one who is saying 80% is not enough.”

Labrador had been deeply involved in the bipartisan negotiations to develop a comprehensive reform bill on the House side, before withdrawing from the talks last month.

“The Republican Party is actually working on immigration reform, it’s working on legalization legislation, it’s working on ways to deal with the young kids that are here in the United States that came here through no fault of their own,” he said. “If that is not good enough for Chuck Schumer and the Democratic Party, then that means that they really don’t want a solution, that all they want is the rhetoric to talk about immigration reform.”

Shorter GOP: “Let us kill immigration reform or be responsible for killing it!!!”

202 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:04:05pm

re: #201 Targetpractice

Labrador: Dems Are At Fault If Immigration Plan Fails

Shorter GOP: “Let us kill immigration reform or be responsible for killing it!!!”

“It’s your fault it failed. You expected us to be sane!”

203 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:04:30pm

re: #202 Kragar

“It’s your fault it failed. You expected us to be sane!”

“You fucked up! You trusted us!”

204 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:04:30pm

re: #201 Targetpractice

Labrador: Dems Are At Fault If Immigration Plan Fails

Shorter GOP: “Let us kill immigration reform or be responsible for killing it!!!”

Derp.

205 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:05:10pm

re: #201 Targetpractice

Labrador: Dems Are At Fault If Immigration Plan Fails

Shorter GOP: “Let us kill immigration reform or be responsible for killing it!!!”

Meanwhile:


Yeah, sorry Dubya. The House GOP aren’t going to listen to a RINO.

////

206 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:06:24pm

re: #117 Mattand

I know this is probably a Godwin, but at this point, isn’t proudly waving a Confederate flag no different than waving a Nazi one?

I mean, seriously, the CSA committed treason and fought like hell to hold on to their “peculiar institution”. 160 years worth of denial is long enough.

“Luchador” is related to the Spanish word “lucha”.
The Spanish translation of “Mein Kampf” is “Mi lucha”.

Coincidence?

207 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:06:47pm
208 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:06:55pm

re: #206 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

“Luchador” is related to the Spanish word “lucha”.
The Spanish translation of “Mein Kampf” is “Mi lucha”.

Coincidence?

Pretty much. Yeah.

209 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:07:12pm


Yes. Thank you GOP.

210 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:09:07pm

I await the comment thread streams to cross and a tweet from Bryan Fisher to emerge complaining about Jesus’ preference for incandescent light bulbs being ignored by tyranical immigration reformers - while wearing a luchador. (Not sure if the luchador will be worn by Bryan or Jesus.)

211 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:09:29pm

re: #208 Kragar

Pretty much. Yeah.

You didn’t see my invisible sarcasm tag?

212 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:12:35pm

re: #129 wrenchwench

Maybe he’ll figure this thing out before embarrassing himself further. The title of his piece indicates he doesn’t grasp it yet: Racists Love Ron and Rand Paul for Some Reason. In it, he goes part way there:

If he keeps digging that hole, eventually he’ll find more similarities, like needing to lie about reality to maintain that ideology.

I think you guys are misinterpreting Chait.

213 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:13:46pm

re: #211 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

You didn’t see my invisible sarcasm tag?

Spiny Norman was sitting on it.

214 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:20:46pm

re: #212 uncah91

I think you guys are misinterpreting Chait.

Care to elaborate?

215 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:21:44pm

Fischer: The Bible Mentions The Second Law Of Thermodynamics

On his broadcast today, Fischer once again put on his scientist cap to explain how the second law of thermodynamics, which he, for some reason, combined with the first law of thermodynamics and then proceeded to absurdly oversimplify, was first mentioned in the Bible; in Psalm 102, to be exact, which reads:

In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded.

But you remain the same, and your years will never end.

As Fischer said, scientists could have figured all of this out if they had simply read this passage from the Book of Psalms, written in 900 BCE, several thousand years before it was formulated.

216 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:22:26pm

re: #215 Kragar

Fischer: The Bible Mentions The Second Law Of Thermodynamics


I need to find a brick to strike myself with.

217 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:23:41pm

re: #216 Varek Raith


I need to find a brick to strike myself with.

SCIENCE!

218 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:23:49pm

re: #192 Kragar

Is single-parenting a form of child abuse?

How about divorce? Is that a form of child abuse?

What about inter-racial or inter-national marriages, Bryan? Are they a form of child abuse?

219 darthstar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:24:48pm

This also goes against Snowden’s claims that he never gave documents to foreign countries.

220 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:24:50pm

Engineer in Lac-Mégantic train disaster suspended

The engineer in charge of the train that derailed and exploded in Lac-Mégantic is “under police control,” according to the head of the rail company.

221 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:25:07pm
222 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:25:17pm

re: #215 Kragar

Fischer: The Bible Mentions The Second Law Of Thermodynamics

Somewhere out there, Neil DeGrasse Tyson is twitching and he doesn’t know why.

223 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:26:09pm

re: #221 Gus

It must suck to still be a virgin at Benny’s age.

224 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:26:23pm

re: #214 wrenchwench


Chait isn’t defending Hunter, he is pointing that even seemingly valid defenses of libertarian ideals against charges of “racism by association” are pretty weak sauce.

The deep connection between the Pauls and the neo-Confederate movement doesn’t discredit their ideas, but it’s also not just an indiscretion. It’s a reflection of the fact that white supremacy is a much more important historical constituency for anti-government ideas than libertarians like to admit.

(emphasis added)

225 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:26:43pm
226 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:26:59pm

re: #218 Bulworth

Is single-parenting a form of child abuse?

How about divorce? Is that a form of child abuse?

What about inter-racial or inter-national marriages, Bryan? Are they a form of child abuse?

To Bryan Fischer, yes, yes and yes.

227 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:27:25pm

re: #222 Lidane

Somewhere out there, Neil DeGrasse Tyson is twitching and he doesn’t know why.

Millions of brain cells suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

228 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:29:28pm

re: #224 uncah91

Chait isn’t defending Hunter, he is pointing that even seemingly valid defenses of libertarian ideals against charges of “racism by association” are pretty weak sauce.

(emphasis added)

I quoted the same section (without the emphasis). Is my comment about it wrong, in your opinion?

229 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:29:35pm

re: #220 Bubblehead II

Engineer in Lac-Mégantic train disaster suspended

The engineer in charge of the train that derailed and exploded in Lac-Mégantic is “under police control,” according to the head of the rail company.

That’s not surprising. Idle trains are supposed to have enough of their manual brakes set to hold the train in place and there should be a test to verify this before the train is left. The air brakes are not intended to do the job for any extended time since the air pressure will eventually drop.

And blaming it on outside agency or the one engine being turned off and stopping replacement of the air pressure due to a small fire is simply attempted to dodge the issue. Someone skipped on some very obvious and well-established safety procedures and now 50-60 people are dead or missing as a result of it.

230 geoffm33  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:29:47pm

re: #225 Gus

231 darthstar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:30:19pm

In order to eat better, I’m adopting the Sri Racha food pyramid.

Image: enhanced-buzz-32615-1328333741-84.jpg

232 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:30:21pm

re: #224 uncah91

I think the snarky sub-title on his main page is also relevant: “It’s the weirdest thing because they are so incredibly anti-racist”

233 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:31:22pm

Well, now we know the next GOP priority after deporting all the brown people and regulating all the uteri in America:

234 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:32:54pm

re: #231 darthstar

Everything is better with sriracha. Or harissa. Or Shug.

235 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:34:21pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

I quoted the same section (without the emphasis). Is my comment about it wrong, in your opinion?

Well, you seemed to be agreeing with Charles that Chait is trying to rehabilitate Hunter. I don’t think Chait is doing that at all. I also don’t think Chait is embarrassing himself.

He clearly understands the deep link between libertarians and neo confederates.

236 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:34:35pm

re: #233 Lidane

Well, now we know the next GOP priority after deporting all the brown people and regulating all the uteri in America:

[Embedded content]

Yeah, because if people are willing to work for a cup of rice and a quarter a day, then a multi-billion dollar company should be allowed to pay them that.
/

237 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:34:36pm

re: #231 darthstar

In order to eat better, I’m adopting the Sri Racha food pyramid.

Image: enhanced-buzz-32615-1328333741-84.jpg

That’s similar to Undercover Brother being issued that special watch that could spray hot sauce onto white food in order to make it palatable when he was infiltrating The Man’s organization.
:)

238 darthstar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:34:52pm

Went to the gym at lunch - not the pool, mind you…the gym - weights, velociraptors, treadmills, etc. It’s been a long fucking time since I went in for a good old fashioned work out. Felt pretty good (kept it pretty low key, aside from my 25 minutes on the velociraptor (elliptical trainer). Trayvon Trial was on the TV - got to see Zimmerman say he wouldn’t take the stand. Guy looked like the dupe in all those college party movies…hey, go up and say this and see what Mrs. Buttswipe does!…Doh!!! Anyway, some guy asks me if I mind if he changes the channel, and I blurt out (in all my sweaty machoness), “I could give a crap about that fucker. Watch what you want.”

239 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:35:03pm

re: #233 Lidane

Well, now we know the next GOP priority after deporting all the brown people and regulating all the uteri in America:

[Embedded content]

Because the best time in the US’ history was when the average worker could count himself lucky if he could afford both food and a roof over his head every day.

240 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:36:00pm

re: #236 Kragar

Yeah, because if people are willing to work for a cup of rice and a quarter a day, then a multi-billion dollar company should be allowed to pay them that.
/

241 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:36:35pm

What better way to kick start the economy than by making sure the vast majority of Americans live at a basic subsistence level with no hope of advancement?

242 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:37:14pm

re: #236 Kragar

Yeah, because if people are willing to work for a cup of rice and a quarter a day, then a multi-billion dollar company should be allowed to pay them that.
/

Ignoring that destroying your markets is going to destroy the country’s economy at some point as well. No middle class nations are generally messes since they tend to cycle between upper class groups creating mayhem trying to get/retain power, or creating mayhem trying to prevent the lower class revolutionaries (with little to lose) throwing them out in order to become the new power group.

243 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:38:15pm

re: #242 Feline Fearless Leader

Ignoring that destroying your markets is going to destroy the country’s economy at some point as well. No middle class nations are generally messes since they tend to cycle between upper class groups creating mayhem trying to get/retain power, or creating mayhem trying to prevent the lower class revolutionaries (with little to lose) throwing them out in order to become the new power group.

The Roman tradition of seizing of assets followed by exile had its merits.
/

244 dragonath  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:39:16pm

What better way to encourage parenthood by paying barely sustenance wages! Pro-family! Wooooooo!

245 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:39:48pm

re: #221 Gus

Hmmm. Have to try that for my next Match.com profile. //

246 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:40:30pm

re: #243 Kragar

The Roman tradition of seizing of assets followed by exile had its merits.
/

The soft touch. You get the money and get them out of the political arena for awhile.

If you kill them you start the nasty vendetta sequence with their family and allies. Plus you have the additional card of being able to bring them back if political necessity requires it.

247 twisty  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:40:33pm

re: #225 Gus

#brochoice

#Derpchoice

Scrolling through the brochoice tag puzzles me for a lot of reasons, but one of them is: seeing the same sentence, sometimes with minor rewording but usually not, repeated on different right wing accounts. These aren’t retweets. Are these just people who don’t know how to RT or some kind of weird fake account thing happening?

248 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:40:53pm

re: #229 Feline Fearless Leader

That’s not surprising. Idle trains are supposed to have enough of their manual brakes set to hold the train in place and there should be a test to verify this before the train is left. The air brakes are not intended to do the job for any extended time since the air pressure will eventually drop.

And blaming it on outside agency or the one engine being turned off and stopping replacement of the air pressure due to a small fire is simply attempted to dodge the issue. Someone skipped on some very obvious and well-established safety procedures and now 50-60 people are dead or missing as a result of it.

The President of the Company is of the opinion that the engineer failed to set enough of the brakes.

‘We think that he applied some handbrakes. The problem is that he didn’t apply enough of them.’
—Ed Burkhardt,President of Railworld Inc.

249 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:41:09pm

Speaker Boner says again that House won’t take up Senate immigration bill as House will only take up legislation that a majority of the majority supports.

Guess that means more votes to repeal ACA, make abortion illegal and require federal photo ID to vote.

250 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:41:29pm

re: #247 twisty

Scrolling through the brochoice tag puzzles me for a lot of reasons, but one of them is: seeing the same sentence, sometimes with minor rewording but usually not, repeated on different right wing accounts. These aren’t retweets. Are these just people who don’t know how to RT or some kind of weird fake account thing happening?

Got me.

251 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:42:50pm

re: #249 Bulworth

Speaker Boner says again that House won’t take up Senate immigration bill as House will only take up legislation that a majority of the majority supports.

Guess that means more votes to repeal ACA, make abortion illegal and require federal photo ID to vote.

The Hastert Rule does seem to be some sort of eldritch conspiracy against the US. Laws are only passed if the votes stars are in the right alignment.

252 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:43:15pm
253 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:44:37pm

re: #249 Bulworth

Speaker Boner says again that House won’t take up Senate immigration bill as House will only take up legislation that a majority of the majority supports.

Guess that means more votes to repeal ACA, make abortion illegal and require federal photo ID to vote.

All the more reason to vote the GOP out whenever you get the chance.

254 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:47:38pm

re: #251 Feline Fearless Leader

The Hastert Rule does seem to be some sort of eldritch conspiracy against the US. Laws are only passed if the votes stars are in the right alignment.

The Hastert “rule” is just the natural result of a a very partisan, polarized House Chamber. Pelosi wasn’t passing bills without majority dem support either.

255 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:48:59pm
256 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:49:50pm

re: #38 NJDhockeyfan

So does that mean that Assange is still calling the shots?

257 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:51:10pm

re: #249 Bulworth

And no jobs.

258 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:51:16pm
259 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:51:59pm

Who knew that you get three chances to be a racist asshole before it’s a problem?

260 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:53:13pm
261 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:55:23pm

re: #192 Kragar

DERP

[Embedded content]

If you feel the need to disable comments on your youtube videos, it’s a pretty good sign that you should shut the hell up with your stupid ideas.

262 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:56:13pm
263 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:57:45pm

re: #235 uncah91

Well, you seemed to be agreeing with Charles that Chait is trying to rehabilitate Hunter. I don’t think Chait is doing that at all. I also don’t think Chait is embarrassing himself.

He clearly understands the deep link between libertarians and neo confederates.

I was wrong, I didn’t quote the same section you did.

The snarky subtitle on his home page made me re-read the whole thing. The last paragraph does not reassure me that you are correct. Starts with

Segregation was in large part a policy of government, not the free market.

which I don’t agree with. Then (skipping one) there’s this:

Barry Goldwater expressed his opposition to the 1964 Civil Rights Act in classically race-neutral, anti-big-government terms.

which I can’t go along with. His ‘terms’ may have been ‘race-neutral’, but it was not a ‘race-neutral’ issue, and I can’t conceive of being so ‘neutral’ on race that one could fail to support the Civil Rights Act. That paragraph ends with this:

It’s a reflection of the fact that white supremacy is a much more important historical constituency for anti-government ideas than libertarians like to admit.

Chait fails to follow the logic any further, and it obviously (to me) goes further.

On this issue, failure to be clear (if he was trying to express what you say) looks like coming down on the other side. I’ll keep an open mind, though.

264 Joanne  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:58:34pm

re: #260 NJDhockeyfan

CampusWeatherService @PSUWeather

#BREAKING: Possible photo of the #tornado in New Castle, PA via @JustDoItRossi #PAwx pic.twitter.com/ThuUpYh4Sd

You call this a tornado? THIS is a tornado!

(Just kidding! I hope everyone in PA is ok!!)

265 Minor_L  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:59:13pm

Obvs, Obama’s Presidency is the only one under which spying on other countries has happened.
//

266 122 Year Old Obama  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 1:59:53pm

re: #264 Joanne

You call this a tornado? THIS is a tornado!

(Just kidding! I hope everyone in PA is ok!!)

Welp, I’m alive, aren’t I? :P

267 Minor_L  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:00:07pm

re: #221 Gus

Yes, Ben, the idea of having sex with you is definitely gross.

268 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:00:45pm
269 Joanne  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:01:09pm

re: #266 122 Year Old Obama

Welp, I’m alive, aren’t I? :P

Excellent!

270 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:02:13pm

re: #252 NJDhockeyfan

#BREAKING CONFIRMED #TORNADO: near New Castle, PA and moving northeast at 15 mph. Take cover now! @CNNweather
— Channel 1 Atlanta (@channel1atlanta) July 10, 2013

About 20 miles south of where I sit at work right now. Nasty weather out there.

271 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:02:51pm

re: #264 Joanne

You call this a tornado? THIS is a tornado!

(Just kidding! I hope everyone in PA is ok!!)

272 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:02:56pm

re: #221 Gus

Id be willing to bet that Ben Shaprio has never had a sexual encounter which didn’t involve an exchange of money, lying or extortion.

273 Joanne  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:03:39pm

re: #271 Lidane

WOWOWOWOW!!! That is a stunning photo!

274 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:05:21pm

re: #273 Joanne

WOWOWOWOW!!! That is a stunning photo!

Stunning photo, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to get caught in that.

275 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:05:30pm

re: #268 Lidane

But the ALL CAPS will make it so.

276 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:06:35pm

What if…

Image: close+all+but+five+gun+shops+in+Texas.png

And is Venezuela going to extend the offer to Snowden? The deadline for his acceptance for asylum in Venezuela ended Monday.

Oh, well. I can certainly see him being turned over the US once the Russians get tired of him totally and there are no more offers.

Greenwald and Assange are acting so pissy about all of it that I’m also wondering if Assange’s stay at the Ecuadorean embassy in London is about to expire, too. And Brazil could always expel Greenwald as an undesirable. It’s their call, not his.

277 John Vreeland  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:06:54pm

There is a world of difference between domestic and foreign spying.

The Russian government spies on its own and uses the information to intimidate and harass dissenters. But if they spy on me I am not going to be arbitrarily arrested no matter what they learn, assuming they even object to my taste in Russian women.

278 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:07:37pm

We finally silenced Snowden!
//

279 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:07:44pm

He’s a kinder, gentler bigot now, y’all!

280 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:08:56pm

re: #279 Lidane

Yeah, and besides those were just his political views, which shouldn’t be held against him in his political job. /

281 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:08:57pm

re: #263 wrenchwench

Segregation was in large part a policy of government, not the free market.

What Chait is saying here is that libertarians are full of it when they clam that the Civil Rights Act interfered with what were essentially private matters. The primary effect of the CRA was to stop southern governments from discriminating.

As far as Barry Goldwater, Chait’s entire point is that those running on a specifically southern white power strategy express themselves in this manner. His point is your point.

282 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:09:05pm
283 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:09:13pm

Chile’s president praises 11-year-old pregnant rape victim for her ‘maturity’ in not pursuing illegal abortion

The conservative president of Chile praised an 11-year-old girl’s “depth and maturity” for continuing a pregnancy caused by repeated rapes by her mother’s partner. According to the Associated Press, President Sebastian Pinera made the remarks to the press in an attempt to explain why the victim is not being offered the option to terminate the pregnancy.

“I’ve asked the health minister to personally look after the (girl’s) health,” Pinera said. “She’s 14 weeks pregnant, and yesterday she surprised us all with words showing depth and maturity, when she said that, despite the pain caused by the man who raped her, she wanted to have and take care of her baby.”

Abortions have been illegal in Chile since the reign of dictator Augustin Pinochet. Chile is one of the most conservative nations in Latin America. All abortions, including those caused by rape or incest, are illegal there.

The 11-year-old girl herself gave a TV interview in which her face was obscured. In it, she said, “It will be like having a doll in my arms. I’m going to love the baby very much, even though it comes from that man who hurt me.”

There is so much fucked up shit happening here, its astounding.

Yeah, having a a baby is just like having a doll. That is the lesson you need to pass on here.

Fucking hell.

284 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:09:17pm

re: #279 Lidane

He’s a kinder, gentler bigot now, y’all!

[Embedded content]

285 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:09:57pm

re: #279 Lidane

He’s a kinder, gentler bigot now, y’all!

[Embedded content]

“I haven’t said shit like that in public for hours!”

286 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:10:49pm

re: #247 twisty

Scrolling through the brochoice tag puzzles me for a lot of reasons, but one of them is: seeing the same sentence, sometimes with minor rewording but usually not, repeated on different right wing accounts. These aren’t retweets. Are these just people who don’t know how to RT or some kind of weird fake account thing happening?

They all got the same wingnut email this morning telling them what to tweet…

287 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:10:53pm
288 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:12:46pm

re: #286 Backwoods_Sleuth

They all got the same wingnut email this morning telling them what to tweet…

Can anyone sum up this ‘brochoice’ nonsense for me? I don’t really feel like taking on the headache that would be involved with translating from twit-ese.

289 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:13:21pm

re: #281 uncah91

What Chait is saying here is that libertarians are full of it when they clam that the Civil Rights Act interfered with what were essentially private matters. The primary effect of the CRA was to stop southern governments from discriminating.

As far as Barry Goldwater, Chait’s entire point is that those running on a specifically southern white power strategy express themselves in this manner. His point is your point.

I don’t know Chait well enough to say you’re wrong. I think he could have been more clear, if you’re right. That he wasn’t makes him look like his example of Goldwater (if you’re right about that).

290 Lancelot Link  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:15:20pm

re: #276 Justanotherhuman

And Brazil could always expel Greenwald as an undesirable. It’s their call, not his.

Why would they do that? He just did the Brazilian Ruling Class an enormous favor by creating a distraction to the ongoing protests & police violence.

291 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:15:23pm

re: #82 Kragar

His own “obtuseness about minorities perhaps? Yeah, that’s it!

292 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:17:31pm

re: #289 wrenchwench

Now, obviously, you can like Ron and Rand Paul without being the slightest bit racist. Very, very few Rand Paul fans are glad Abraham Lincoln was shot. At the same time, the logic of southern white supremacy and the logic of libertarianism run along very similar lines. They both express themselves in terms of opposition to federal power and support for states’ rights.

The part you quoted, with my emphasis. I think that is pretty clearly exactly what you were saying about Goldwater.

293 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:23:22pm

re: #290 Lancelot Link

Hmm. Brazil’s ABIN? abin.gov.br

“On December 7, 2012, we celebrate the 13th anniversary of the creation of the Brazilian Intelligence Agency. The date marks the signing of Law n. 9.883/1999, which designated Abin as the central department of the Brazilian Intelligence System (Sisbin). Among its responsibilities, Abin carries out the National Intelligence Policy and all its related actions, integrating the work of the Intelligence departments in the country. Thus, Abin is a direct advisor to the Head of State, ensuring comprehensive knowledge of facts and situations related to the well-being of our society and the development and security of our country. “

294 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:25:17pm

re: #292 uncah91

The part you quoted, with my emphasis. I think that is pretty clearly exactly what you were saying about Goldwater.

OK, at this point I’ll assume you’re right. That means Chait is writing for people who already know him, and leaving others to wonder about him (unless I’m just not as smart as usual, or unusually suspicious today.)

296 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:28:32pm
297 darthstar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:30:14pm

Drone this big could almost carry a pilot.

298 AlexRogan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:31:02pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, to no one’s great surprise, Andrew Sullivan is white-splaining away the explicit racism of Rand Paul’s neo-Confederate staffer, “The Southern Avenger.”

Another Paul, Another Secessionist Smear?

My favorite part (Sullivan quoting the paleolibertarians at American Conservative):

“A certain obtuseness about minorities.” Snort.

I’ll never again be able to read about someone calling someone ‘obtuse’ without thinking about The Shawshank Redemption.

299 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:32:00pm

re: #297 darthstar

Drone this big could almost carry a pilot.

[Embedded content]

“jet-sized” derp.

300 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:34:00pm

re: #297 darthstar

Drone this big could almost carry a pilot.

[Embedded content]

We should try that next!

301 AlexRogan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:34:38pm

re: #87 Kragar

Its hard to be a White Christian Male in the South nowadays.
///

It’s hard to be a pimp…

///

302 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:34:40pm

re: #297 darthstar

Drone this big could almost carry a pilot.

[Embedded content]

Amazing success, even if one has disagreement with unmanned combat vehicles. Computers have advanced to the point that they can successfully land an aircraft on a moving airstrip.

303 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:35:23pm

re: #294 wrenchwench

OK, at this point I’ll assume you’re right. That means Chait is writing for people who already know him, and leaving others to wonder about him (unless I’m just not as smart as usual, or unusually suspicious today.)

I’m wondering if you were thrown if by getting to Chait from Sullivan. Sullivan wasn’t (at least I don’t think he was) saying Chait agreed with him. But I could see how you would get that impression and then misinterpret Chait’s post.

304 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:36:20pm

JET-SIZED DRONE LANDS ON AIRCRAFT CARRIER!!!111TY

[Lights hair on fire.]

305 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:36:25pm

re: #288 GunstarGreen

Can anyone sum up this ‘brochoice’ nonsense for me? I don’t really feel like taking on the headache that would be involved with translating from twit-ese.

Choiceusa.org

The thing about twitter hashtags, they are just so easy to hijack.

306 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:36:27pm

re: #302 Targetpractice

Amazing success, even if one has disagreement with unmanned combat vehicles. Computers have advanced to the point that they can successfully land an aircraft on a moving airstrip.

Yeah, just wait till they put one on display at a defense contractor convention and they catch it molesting one of the bomb disposal bots in the hotel after hours.

307 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:37:27pm

Laser-like focus, etc. -

308 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:37:36pm

re: #306 Kragar

Yeah, just wait till they put one on display at a defense contractor convention and they catch it molesting one of the bomb disposal bots in the hotel after hours.

Gives “Tailhook Scandal” a new meaning.

309 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:37:38pm

re: #298 AlexRogan

Over the five years that I’ve known him, however, Jack has re-examined his thinking and confronted questions of fairness that the right has too often avoided. He’s done this while remaining devoted to the canons of Russell Kirk’s conservatism.

How about you? Are you, my dear friends, devoted to the canons of Russell Kirk’s conservatism? If not, why not?

//

310 AlexRogan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:37:43pm

re: #93 Gus

Wait, that was not from The Onion?

311 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:37:50pm

Cue the Paultard bleating:

312 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:39:04pm

re: #303 uncah91

I’m wondering if you were thrown if by getting to Chait from Sullivan. Sullivan wasn’t (at least I don’t think he was) saying Chait agreed with him. But I could see how you would get that impression and then misinterpret Chait’s post.

Possibly. Also by the company he was put in by Sullivan. Weigel hangs around with those libertarians an awful lot, and seems always ready to diminish accusations of racism as meaningless.

313 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:40:30pm

House GOP on immigration: Americans don’t trust Democrats, so its a no go

“Today House Republicans affirmed that rather than take up the flawed legislation rushed through the Senate, House committees will continue their work on a step-by-step, common-sense approach to fixing what has long been a broken system. The American people want our border secured, our laws enforced, and the problems in our immigration system fixed to strengthen our economy. But they don’t trust a Democratic-controlled Washington, and they’re alarmed by the president’s ongoing insistence on enacting a single, massive, Obamacare-like bill rather than pursuing a step-by-step, common-sense approach to actually fix the problem. The president has also demonstrated he is willing to unilaterally delay or ignore significant portions of laws he himself has signed, raising concerns among Americans that this administration cannot be trusted to deliver on its promises to secure the border and enforce laws as part of a single, massive bill like the one passed by the Senate.”

314 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:40:35pm

re: #310 AlexRogan

Wait, that was not from The Onion?

Nope.

315 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:40:41pm
316 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:41:27pm

re: #313 Kragar

House GOP on immigration: Americans don’t trust Democrats, so its a no go

Shorter GOP: “The black guy is still POTUS, so fuck you.”

317 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:41:46pm

re: #313 Kragar

House GOP on immigration: Americans don’t trust Democrats, so its a no go

Shorter statement: “We’re killing immigration reform, so tough shit!”

318 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:41:52pm
319 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:42:44pm

How is that rebranding working out for you assholes?

320 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:43:38pm

re: #313 Kragar

“Today House Republicans affirmed that rather than take up the flawed legislation rushed through Rushed!! Shoved down are throateses!! the Senate, House committees will continue their work on a step-by-step, common-sense approach to fixing what has long been a broken system.

And by “step by step, commense sense approach” we mean we’ll go back to passing bills to repeal Obamacare and criminalize abortion.

321 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:44:23pm

re: #318 Gus

Filed under “shocked”, “surprised”

322 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:44:45pm

re: #320 Bulworth

And by “step by step, commense sense approach” we mean we’ll go back to passing bills to repeal Obamacare and criminalize abortion.

Its so much easier to sneak in anti-abortion amendments and undermine social programs when you can do it gradually over time.

323 piratedan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:45:06pm

re: #313 Kragar

House GOP on immigration: Americans don’t trust Democrats, so its a no go

yeah, the same Congress that has an 11% approval rating from the public thinks it’s the Dems that they’re upset with.

324 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:46:06pm
325 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:46:19pm

re: #297 darthstar

Ironic that it landed on the carrier George H.W. Bush. The Pioneer drone flew 300+ combat reconnaissance missions during Persian Gulf operations in 1990-91. fas.org

326 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:46:58pm

re: #324 Gus

[Embedded content]

Trusting a Republican in government is like trusting a pyromaniac with matches.

327 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:47:10pm

re: #324 Gus

But why doesn’t Obummer reach out more to Repubs??!!!111!!

328 Bulworth  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:48:31pm

re: #324 Gus

Republicans, always classy. //

329 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:48:41pm
330 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:49:18pm

re: #311 Lidane

Can you imagine how much worse it would be for the average person if the zillionaires didn’t get those low rates? We can’t neglect the 1%, after all.

331 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:49:42pm

re: #327 Bulworth

But why doesn’t Obummer reach out more to Repubs??!!!111!!

Because he’s tired of drawing back a bloody stump.

332 Kragar  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:50:24pm

So if Sarah Palin runs for the Senate in 2016, would they hold a special election to replace her or just wait till the 2018 election to fill it again?
/

333 Gus  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:51:39pm
334 Lidane  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:52:00pm
335 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:53:02pm
336 piratedan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 2:57:52pm

re: #333 Gus

[Embedded content]

well Tim, trusting you guys to govern in the name of the people is like having a pedophile as a crossing guard. Enjoy the metaphor u toolless wonder.

337 uncah91  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:03:34pm

re: #312 wrenchwench

Possibly. Also by the company he was put in by Sullivan. Weigel hangs around with those libertarians an awful lot, and seems always ready to diminish accusations of racism as meaningless.

Sullivan likes to quote a fair number of people from various different perspectives, if he thinks they have made a good point. He will frequently quote people on opposite sides of an issue.

Pretty sure Weigel was a libertarian. Now he is more of a very astute observer of DC politics. But his roots show from time to time, for sure.

338 AlexRogan  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:10:00pm

re: #314 Gus

Nope.

*headdesk*

339 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 3:24:17pm
340 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Jul 10, 2013 7:04:24pm

re: #186 Lidane

Don’t forget Ohio, where draconian abortion restrictions were signed off by Kasich as part of the budget. The measures were not introduced as legislation. Good times.


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