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596 comments
1 twisty  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:00:54pm

Yikes.

2 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:00:56pm

inb4 racism

3 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:01:07pm
4 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:01:40pm

Infuckingcredible.

5 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:01:54pm

Wow.

6 RinaX  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:02:05pm

I genuinely want to cry, and not go out and burn down buildings. Sorry, wingnuts.

7 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:02:09pm

Crap.

8 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:02:11pm

Now you know that in Florida, it is perfectly legal to kill an unarmed black teenager.

9 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:02:13pm

Sad.

10 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:02:20pm

I mean. He killed an unarmed kid. Just, wow.

11 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:03:08pm

re: #10 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)

I mean. He killed an unarmed kid. Just, wow.

He killed an unarmed black kid. Apparently, that’s not a crime.

12 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:03:14pm

There were 37M people watching that Ustream feed.

13 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:03:55pm
14 Joanne  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:04:10pm

Michael Vick, 16 months for dog fighting. Zimmerman goes free killing a kid. Unreal.

15 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:04:43pm

No surprise

16 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:04:54pm

This is the verdict I expected. And given the evidence presented, I’m inclined to think it reasonable. I also think George Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his SUV.

17 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:05:34pm

Trayvon Martin: Guilty and sentenced to death by a cop wannabe, aided and abetted by a police department and ME’s office that couldn’t find their asses with both hands and a DA’s office that couldn’t do shit about it.

Sickening, but not unexpected; Zimmerman’s even going to court was a Hail Mary pass on the part of the DA’s office anyway.

18 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:06:23pm
19 Tigger2  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:06:32pm

The punk got away with murder as far as I’m concerned.

20 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:07:36pm

re: #3 Lidane

FUCK!

Add to the anger I already had…

I’m shutting down the computer before I do something really stupid.

G’night, Lizardim.

Maybe tomorrow, mos def on Monday.

[repeated from downstairs]

21 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:07:51pm
22 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:08:09pm

re: #11 Lidane

Yeah, this is going to have horrible consequences.

23 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:08:17pm

There is nothing reasonable about this verdict. Zimmerman killed an unarmed kid.

Note to self: Stay out of Florida. Apparently, it’s legal to stalk, assault, and shoot someone that’s unarmed.

24 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:08:23pm

Not surprised, just…
Confused.

25 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:08:29pm

Bologna. It was at least manslaughter. I would have given him 10 years.

26 spiderx  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:08:59pm

Zimmerman got away with killing someone. This was a clear case of manslaughter.

If Martin was white there never would have been a not guilty verdict.

27 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:09:16pm

This simply reaffirms that cynicism should be the default position for all Americans.

Regardless of race, class, religion, etc.

28 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:09:39pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

This is the verdict I expected. And given the evidence presented, I’m inclined to think it reasonable. I also think George Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his SUV.

Sweet Jebus Haploid Christ, DF.

29 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:09:43pm

re: #26 spiderx

Zimmerman got away with killing someone. This was a clear case of manslaughter.

If Martin was white there never would have been a not guilty verdict.

If Martin was white, Zimmerman would be occupying Death Row right now.

30 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:10:15pm

I’m going to clear off for the time being.

31 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:10:57pm

re: #26 spiderx

If Martin was white there never would have been a not guilty verdict.

If Martin was white Zimmerman would’ve faced the death penalty.

32 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:11:02pm

...

33 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:11:12pm

One thing is for sure. Zimmerman is not going to lead a comfortable life.

34 spiderx  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:11:28pm

our justice system is racist

Marisa Alexander - 20 years for firing a warning shot in the air to scare off an abusive husband.

George Zimmermann - not guilty of killing an unarmed black teenager.

35 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:11:45pm

nre: #26 spiderx

Zimmerman got away with killing someone. This was a clear case of manslaughter.

If Martin was white there never would have been a not guilty verdict.

As I’ve said before if Martin had been white, Zimmerman would already be sitting on death row.

36 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:11:47pm

Fuck, I go back on my earlier comment. I am now willing to make a complete ass out of myself venting about this.

37 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:11:53pm

Yeah, I’m pissed.

38 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:12:03pm
39 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:12:05pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

This is the verdict I expected. And given the evidence presented, I’m inclined to think it reasonable. I also think George Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his SUV.

*headdesk*

40 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:12:15pm
41 SidewaysQuark  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:12:18pm

re: #23 Lidane

There is nothing reasonable about this verdict. Zimmerman killed an unarmed kid.

Note to self: Stay out of Florida. Apparently, it’s legal to stalk, assault, and shoot someone that’s unarmed.

If only the case had been that simple. This came down to crappy legislation, not a crappy jury, in my opinion. Given that insanity, they should have slapped an option of reckless endangerment or the like as an option to at least have the possibility of getting him on a lesser charge, I would think.

42 bratwurst  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:12:34pm

Let the right wing comedy begin:

43 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:12:40pm
44 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:13:03pm
45 HoosierHoops  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:13:26pm

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

One thing is for sure. Zimmerman is not going to lead a comfortable life.

correct..No matter what..His life is over as we know it..It will stay with him forever..
There are no winners here..

46 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:13:44pm

He gets his gun back tonight.

47 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:13:49pm

re: #42 bratwurst

*inarticulate growling rage*

48 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:14:19pm

re: #40 NJDhockeyfan

Oh please.
The only people so far to start shit where white people. 2 drunk idiots and a racist.

49 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:14:37pm

re: #45 HoosierHoops

correct..No matter what..His life is over as we know it..It will stay with him forever..
There are no winners here..

Hoops, he’s going to get rich(er) off of this. He’ll be just fine I bet.

50 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:15:03pm

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

Of course he still has his freedom, both corporeal and literal.

While a black teenager has neither.

51 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:15:06pm

re: #46 Stanley Sea

He gets his gun back tonight.

GODDAMNFUCKNOISEBULLSHITFUCKERS

52 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:15:18pm

Youtube Video

53 calochortus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:15:36pm

re: #49 Stanley Sea

Hoops, he’s going to get rich(er) off of this. He’ll be just fine I bet.

People over on FR are hoping someone starts a collection for him.

Me? I’m just sad.

54 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:15:56pm

re: #42 bratwurst

Let the right wing comedy begin:

[Embedded content]

55 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:16:03pm

You know……there’s something fucked up

56 spiderx  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:16:05pm

conservatives gloating about this. WOW. They really are a bunch of racist motherf**kers

57 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:16:17pm

I’m real sick of the subtle and not subtle comments on the web/media about how black people are going to riot.

58 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:17:37pm

re: #51 chadu

GODDAMNFUCKNOISEBULLSHITFUCKERS

Breathe in
…
Breathe out

59 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:17:39pm

Of course, my Dad is happy about the verdict.

60 kg7u  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:18:12pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

I agree with both statements.

61 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:18:34pm
62 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:18:40pm

It doesn’t appear to me that Black lives are any more valuable today than they were when I was a teen in FL in the 1950s.

Nothing changes—racism is still embedded deeply among many in this country, and I am ashamed—that is my overall feeling.

63 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:18:44pm

re: #53 calochortus

People over on FR are hoping someone starts a collection for him.

Me? I’m just sad.

It’s just a matter of time before Zimmerman is offered a radio or Fox News gig.

Write it down, folks…

64 John Vreeland  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:19:24pm

The verdict itself was an inevitable product of idiotic Florida law. If you want to legally murder someone you only need to goad them into attacking you with their fists, then when you are losing you can legally shoot them.

65 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:19:37pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

This is the verdict I expected. And given the evidence presented, I’m inclined to think it reasonable. I also think George Zimmerman should never have gotten out of his SUV.

Killing an unarmed kid, totally unnecessarily is reasonable? Yeah, time again for you to fuck off with your tail between your legs. Despicable.

66 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:20:22pm

Two words that I thought I never would hear in the 21st Century showing up on some rightwing sites:

“Jury Nullification”.

67 PeterWolf  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:20:24pm

re: #63 AlexRogan

It’s just a matter of time before Zimmerman is offered a radio or Fox News gig.

Write it down, folks…

Oh, he’ll be interviewed by Hannity quickly, and part of that is so Hannity can do a victory lap wearing a smug grin.

68 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:20:59pm
69 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:21:11pm
70 calochortus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:21:47pm

re: #63 AlexRogan

It’s just a matter of time before Zimmerman is offered a radio or Fox News gig.

Write it down, folks…

I suspect his celebrity will be brief. He doesn’t seem to be more than a petty bully. Not entertaining TV or radio.

71 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:21:48pm

re: #68 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

He did exactly what Zimmerman wanted him to do. Died, scared and alone. Just like every other lynching.

72 RinaX  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:21:54pm

re: #64 John Vreeland

The verdict itself was an inevitable product of idiotic Florida law. If you want to legally murder someone you only need to goad them into attacking you with their fists, then when you are losing you can legally shoot them.

Only if you’re white…

73 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:22:00pm

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

I’m going to clear off for the time being.

Gutless…

/the tale of Brave Sir Robin

74 SidewaysQuark  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:22:51pm

re: #57 Varek Raith

I’m real sick of the subtle and not subtle comments on the web/media about how black people are going to riot.

Follow the $$$. Guess who ca$hes in on more viewership by fanning the flames? Disgusting.

75 spiderx  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:24:09pm

I still don’t understand the conservative mindset when it comes to this case. Do they really think Zimmernan was justified in killing Martin?

76 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:24:50pm

re: #75 spiderx

I still don’t understand the conservative mindset when it comes to this case. Do they really think Zimmernan was justified in killing Martin?

Justified? They think Zimmerman is a damn hero.

77 spiderx  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:25:35pm

re: #76 RadicalModerate

Justified? They think Zimmerman is a damn hero.

yeah..why? Do they just not like black people?

78 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:26:14pm

re: #75 spiderx

I still don’t understand the conservative mindset when it comes to this case. Do they really think Zimmernan was justified in killing Martin?

Yes. See Charles’s earlier article. They think there’s 100s of black Zimmermans that the media just refuses to talk about. This time it was “reversed”. Martin picked the wrong guy to attack, blah blah blah.

Spits

79 Ming  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:26:58pm

I am very unhappy.

80 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:26:59pm
81 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:02pm

re: #77 spiderx

yeah..why? Do they just not like black people?

Hm….let me think about his for a bit.

82 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:02pm

I think Zimmerman and Casey Anthony would make a cute couple.

83 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:28pm

There will no doubt now be a civil suit and trial…and just like OJ, I bet the result will be guilty there. Zimmerman will be forced to testify.
He may not go to jail but he will pay.

84 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:30pm

re: #82 darthstar

I think Zimmerman and Casey Anthony would make a cute couple.

Troll.
:P

85 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:34pm

Doesn’t beyond a reasonable doubt mean anything? Anybody watching the trial knows that the prosecution was not able to establish that Zimmerman was not in fear of his life.

86 calochortus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:40pm

re: #75 spiderx

Yes they do, he was a scary young black thug sneakily armed with a deadly sidewalk as a weapon. Zimmerman defended himself with his handgun. It has all the important elements.

87 Tigger2  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:27:59pm

Well Florida you can kiss my vacation money goodbye until you get rid of that legal murder stand your ground law.

88 spiderx  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:28:37pm

i had some idiot say to me “well, you can’t disprove that Zimmerman didn’t fear for his life and had to use self defense, therefore thats reasonable doubt”

89 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:28:51pm

Zimmerman might be an asshole or an idiot. He might or might not have been driven by subtle racism, authority fetishism, stupidity, or just plain adrenaline. I would have liked to have seen him get some sentence.

The people cheering him, though, are utter bastards, because they’re not viewing this as the exception, or the special case. Their worldview is built on a dichotomy of Thugs That Need To Die versus People Who Will Righteously Shoot Them. And who’s whom isn’t determined by evidence, but by the admixture of race, class, and privilege.

90 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:29:03pm
91 urbanmeemaw  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:29:10pm

I’m not surprised. That does not diminish my rage. At this point the only thing I know to do is pray for the soul of America and send my love to Trayvon’s family. And to remember what MLK said about the arc of justice. I just don’t know what else to do right now.

92 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:29:25pm

This SUCKS. I can’r even begin to imagine how Trayvon’s parents feel. Time to step away from the interwebs for the night. G’nite, lizards.

93 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:29:28pm
94 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:30:01pm

IMO-Zimmerman should have gotten manslaughter. From everything I ever learned about self defense, ever thought to advocate in terms of room for the average joe in a jam.

95 Skip Intro  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:30:22pm

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

One thing is for sure. Zimmerman is not going to lead a comfortable life.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him as an honored guest at the 2016 GOP convention.

96 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:30:24pm

re: #85 theye1

Doesn’t beyond a reasonable doubt mean anything? Anybody watching the trial knows that the prosecution was not able to establish that Zimmerman was not in fear of his life.

That would require telepathy.
Fear is an emotion. Not something we can measure after the fact.

97 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:30:39pm

re: #83 blueraven

There will no doubt now be a civil suit and trial…and just like OJ, I bet the result will be guilty there. Zimmerman will be forced to testify.
He may not go to jail but he will pay.

Good call….

98 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:31:37pm

re: #94 Political Atheist

IMO-Zimmerman should have gotten manslaughter. From everything I ever learned about self defense, ever thought to advocate in terms of room for the average joe in a jam.

Apparently manslaughter doesn’t exist when the dead body belongs to an unarmed black teenager.

Pathetic.

99 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:32:15pm

re: #58 abolitionist

Breathe in
…
Breathe out

No.

I’m going to do something.

I’m sick of these assholes paralyzing and dividing my country.

Once the red vision subsides, I will have an idea.

100 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:32:33pm

re: #87 Tigger2

Well Florida you can kiss my vacation money goodbye until you get rid of that legal murder stand your ground law.

Same here, not a god damn penny.

101 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:33:15pm

re: #97 NJDhockeyfan

Jesus, is the House in session next week? The resolutions demanding the DOJ stay out of this or else is going to be….numerous.

102 allegro  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:33:21pm

Been quite a telling and depressing 24 hours for women and minorities in the US as we find out exactly where we stand… or lie dying.

This shit has done gotten real.

103 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:34:10pm

re: #88 spiderx

i had some idiot say to me “well, you can’t disprove that Zimmerman didn’t fear for his life and had to use self defense, therefore thats reasonable doubt”

Sure you can. Give him three weeks and he’ll be bragging about it.

104 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:34:20pm
105 calochortus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:34:55pm

I hope that there will be no rioting (every group has its idiots and I’d love to see the rightwing fearmongers proven totally wrong about trouble resulting.) But I’d love to see everyone outraged by the verdict registering and voting in the next 10 elections, or so.

106 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:35:07pm

ZOMG! “Romney.”

107 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:35:42pm
108 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:35:59pm

re: #85 theye1

Doesn’t beyond a reasonable doubt mean anything? Anybody watching the trial knows that the prosecution was not able to establish that Zimmerman was not in fear of his life.

Because the LEOs fucked up on the scene, and processing, and additional backstage meddling from GZ’s dad all clouded the process.

Which is all actual FACT, attested to.

109 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:36:20pm
110 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:37:12pm

So much joy over death.
Creepy as hell.

111 JamesWI  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:37:15pm

re: #94 Political Atheist

IMO-Zimmerman should have gotten manslaughter. From everything I ever learned about self defense, ever thought to advocate in terms of room for the average joe in a jam.

Yeah, studying for the bar right now. Even if they believed him that he truly thought he was in danger and had the right to defend himself, that’s pretty much the textbook definition of voluntary manslaughter. Imperfect self-defense is what you call it when you use deadly force in a situation where you don’t have the right.

112 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:37:23pm
113 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:37:28pm

re: #80 Gus

Make an exchange for Oman?

Oman leaves an insane region, and Florida joins it. Win-Win.

114 BlazerBeav  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:37:39pm

Are people honestly surprised - and, if so, did you watch the trial? The defense put on a better case, and the burden was on the prosecution to prove their case beyond the shadow of a doubt. I don’t know how anyone can honestly say that occurred here. Just from a strictly legal point of view, this appears to be the correct outcome.

115 [deleted]  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:38:39pm
116 Skip Intro  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:04pm

re: #75 spiderx

I still don’t understand the conservative mindset when it comes to this case. Do they really think Zimmernan was justified in killing Martin?

Let’s just get this out in the open. The white guy killed the n*****, so of course it’s justified. They’re only sorry they can’t do the same thing to Obama.

117 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:15pm

re: #108 chadu

Given the evidence presented they couldn’t have gotten a guilty verdict, the evidence just wasn’t there. The prosecution did not present any evidence that contradicted Zimmerman’s account, it in fact had evidence that supported Zimmerman’s account.

118 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:19pm

Now, now. No need for that Chadu.

119 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:22pm

re: #114 BlazerBeav

Are people honestly surprised - and, if so, did you watch the trial? The defense put on a better case, and the burden was on the prosecution to prove their case beyond the shadow of a doubt. I don’t know how anyone can honestly say that occurred here. Just from a strictly legal point of view, this appears to be the correct outcome.

wrong. Not a shadow of a doubt. Reasonable doubt.

120 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:23pm

re: #114 BlazerBeav

The legal boundary is not ‘shadow of a doubt’. It’s ‘reasonable doubt’. That Zimmerman changed his story so many times is, alone, reasonable doubt to me, unless he reconciled those statements. He didn’t.

121 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:51pm
122 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:39:54pm

re: #114 BlazerBeav

Yeah, the defense put on a better case if you believe the lies that were told.

123 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:40:23pm

re: #121 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Why u not in jail Nugent???

124 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:40:26pm

re: #121 Lidane

125 Renaissance_Man  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:40:32pm

It goes to show, once again, that in America, using a gun makes you more morally correct. And also legally so - it seems to me that there would have been far fewer legal protections had Zimmerman killed him with a knife.

126 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:40:51pm

re: #114 BlazerBeav

Are people honestly surprised - and, if so, did you watch the trial? The defense put on a better case, and the burden was on the prosecution to prove their case beyond the shadow of a doubt. I don’t know how anyone can honestly say that occurred here. Just from a strictly legal point of view, this appears to be the correct outcome.

The defense put out a blizzard of contradictory statements, meant to confuse.

Seems to have succeeded. /spit

127 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:40:53pm

re: #117 theye1

Given the evidence presented they couldn’t have gotten a guilty verdict, the evidence just wasn’t there. The prosecution did not present any evidence that contradicted Zimmerman’s account, it in fact had evidence that supported Zimmerman’s account.

This is untrue. First of all, Zimmerman has given conflicting accounts, so you’ll have to explain which of his contradictory accounts you mean. Second of all, his wounds were consistent with a single, or very few blows, and inconsistent with his head being slammed on the ground.

It certainly was a case where acquittal wasn’t out of the question, but you’re simply not telling the truth here.

128 BlazerBeav  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:41:29pm

I’ve seen this argument about lies - but as has been argued by the legal experts on TV - these “lies” were not important. Even the investigating officer testified that he believed Zimmerman’s account of events.

129 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:41:53pm

re: #117 theye1

Given the evidence presented they couldn’t have gotten a guilty verdict, the evidence just wasn’t there. The prosecution did not present any evidence that contradicted Zimmerman’s account, it in fact had evidence that supported Zimmerman’s account.

Which account?

My count was that he had three wildly differing accounts of what happened.

130 prairiefire  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:41:56pm

It’s just another lynching in a different century. Trayon was provoked and died, and the law approved it.
Fie unto them, fie.

131 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:42:09pm

His worst injury was a broken nose.
Shit, I broke mine walking in to a fucking cabinet door.

132 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:42:41pm

I tell ya, an awful lot of people are going to fear for their lives around Zimmerman. I don’t blame them one bit. I’m sure he could make an entire group feel threatened, assuming they only had baseball bats. We know Zimmerman has a gun and no fear of using it with little to no provocation. I’d be fearing for my life as soon as I set eyes on him.

133 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:43:03pm

re: #118 Varek Raith

I’m spitting nails, VR. I was ready to walk away, but then there was this locus of STUPID.

Oh, well.

134 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:43:06pm

You know, Gawker got shit on the other day for publishing an MSNBC screen capture of Trayvon Martin’s body at the crime scene.

Fuck that. Here is the link to Gawker.

The Walking Dead has more gore than this photo. The one difference? This photo is real. That is a dead black teenager, and tonight, a jury decided his death didn’t happen and that the man who killed him didn’t do anything wrong.

This is heartbreaking and horrible. WTF America?

135 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:43:17pm

re: #128 BlazerBeav

Lies not important?
What the hell man.
What the hell.

136 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:43:37pm

re: #131 Varek Raith

His worst injury was a broken nose.
Shit, I broke mine walking in to a fucking cabinet door.

O’Mara gave Zimmerman his money’s worth, with help from the Sanford PD.

137 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:43:44pm

re: #128 BlazerBeav

Yeah that is why he recommended he be charged with Manslaughter that night. //

138 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:43:46pm

re: #128 BlazerBeav

I’ve seen this argument about lies - but as has been argued by the legal experts on TV - these “lies” were not important. Even the investigating officer testified that he believed Zimmerman’s account of events.

Again, which version of events that Zimmerman gave?

139 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:44:22pm
140 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:44:22pm

Fuck you, Don West. Just. Fuck. You.

141 Skip Intro  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:44:25pm

re: #136 AlexRogan

O’Mara gave Zimmerman his money’s worth, with help from the Sanford PD.

Is Zimmerman going to sue Martin’s family for the cost of the bullet?

142 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:44:34pm

re: #121 Lidane

Seriously, the Nuge needs a nut-punch.

Two (or was it three?) visits from the Secret Service haven’t calmed him down yet.

143 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:44:42pm
144 HSG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:44:47pm

If it’s any consolation, Trayvon Martin’s family probably has a pretty good wrongful death case against George Zimmerman and could reduce him to penury for a decade or more.

145 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:45:24pm
146 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:45:41pm

re: #144 HSG

If it’s any consolation, Trayvon Martin’s family probably has a pretty good wrongful death case against George Zimmerman and could reduce him to penury for a decade or more.

That and the Feds aren’t even remotely started with him yet.

147 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:45:53pm

re: #146 AlexRogan

That and the Feds aren’t even remotely started with him yet.

Oh?

148 BlazerBeav  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:45:55pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Lies not important?
What the hell man.
What the hell.

Honestly - lay out the lies, and show how they were integral to anything and not just simple inconsistencies.

149 HSG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:46:29pm

re: #147 Varek Raith

Oh?

Civil rights action.

By the time the justice system is done with him, he’ll weigh 525 pounds.

150 122 Year Old Obama  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:46:30pm

Horrifying. Fucking HORRIFYING

151 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:46:59pm

re: #149 HSG

Civil rights action.

Ah.

152 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:47:08pm

re: #128 BlazerBeav

I’ve seen this argument about lies - but as has been argued by the legal experts on TV - these “lies” were not important. Even the investigating officer testified that he believed Zimmerman’s account of events.

Ah, appeal to authority. Even when that authority has been called into question.

Well done.

153 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:47:19pm

re: #148 BlazerBeav

14 comments in 2 years. Interesting night to decide to check in with us.

154 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:47:40pm
155 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:48:06pm

re: #148 BlazerBeav

I thought you watched the trial…
The prosecution laid them out in their rebuttal.

156 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:48:12pm

re: #127 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The account of the actual altercation was mostly the same. Secondly, level of injuries has no real factor on whether it was self defense or not. Sorry, the prosecution had really weak case. If anything, I would blame prosecutorial overreach as the cause of the not guilty verdict.

157 Decider  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:48:14pm

Fox News is doing a victory celebration.

158 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:48:29pm
159 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:48:31pm

re: #154 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Of course not. They won. That’s all they care about. “We killed it.”

160 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:49:13pm
161 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:49:34pm

re: #121 Lidane

[Embedded content]

162 Belafon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:50:18pm

re: #85 theye1

I know. It’s hard to believe he didn’t feel threatened after he got out of the truck after being told not too.

At the point he got out of the truck, it became premeditated. If you can have premeditated manslaughter, the we’ll call it that. But it was not longer self-defense after that point.

163 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:50:40pm

re: #156 theye1

The account of the actual altercation was mostly the same. Secondly, level of injuries has no real factor on whether it was self defense or not. Sorry, the prosecution has really weak case. If anything, I would blame prosecutorial overreach as the cause of the not guilty verdict.

That’s because the account of the altercation came from one person.
One.
Guess who?
The same person who also lied numerous times about what lead up to it.
So…
Yeah.

164 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:51:01pm

Based on the evidence, I don’t see how anyone could have expected any other verdict.

165 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:51:22pm

I really would not be surprised if GZ sued the state for malicious prosecution or some similar bullshit.

166 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:05pm

re: #164 krypto

Based on the evidence, I don’t see how anyone could have expected any other verdict.

You have all of our sympathies.

167 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:06pm

re: #148 BlazerBeav

Honestly - lay out the lies, and show how they were integral to anything and not just simple inconsistencies.

Sweet Jebus Buddha in a disco.

Have you not been paying attention around here for the past 6-8 months?

Don’t recognize your name, except from this thread.

Thus, fuck you.

Courteously.

/1776

168 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:07pm
169 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:11pm

Ah, so O’Mara is explaining the rehabilitation of Z’s reputation already.

Clever boy.

170 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:20pm

re: #148 BlazerBeav

Honestly - lay out the lies, and show how they were integral to anything and not just simple inconsistencies.

Here’s one: “Fucking cones” —GZ

Have you listened to the 911 audio?

171 Ming  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:33pm

I wanted Zimmerman to be convicted. But that was always secondary to the enormity of the tragedy. It really hurts that Trayvon, who could have been my son or grandson, had so many years stolen from him.

172 prairiefire  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:36pm

re: #102 allegro

Been quite a telling and depressing 24 hours for women and minorities in the US as we find out exactly where we stand… or lie dying.

This shit has done gotten real.

It’s real, and we won’t forget it.

173 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:52:41pm

re: #168 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Whut.

174 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:06pm

re: #168 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Wut?

175 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:11pm

re: #163 Varek Raith

Reasonable doubt and the presumption of innocence.

Secondly, does florida allow for civil in case of self defense? In some jurisdiction they don’t.

176 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:11pm

In the mood to create Trayvon’s Fund, a 501 (c) dedicated to training, arming, and getting CCP for Florida’s black teenagers.

177 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:19pm

re: #166 McSpiff

You have all of our sympathies.

Meaning what? Am I talking to a uniform mob of some sort?

178 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:40pm

re: #174 Gus

Wut?

Iknowrite.

179 BlazerBeav  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:43pm

re: #155 Varek Raith

I thought you watched the trial…
The prosecution laid them out in their rebuttal.

And as the juror clearly found as well, they were inconsequential.

180 Egregious Philbin  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:54:58pm

I am so glad I decided to spend the last 2 hours by the pool, listening to Zappa and reading a book.

Zimmerman is a two bit Barney Fife with a gun, he had NO business leaving that car after 9/11 told him to stay in the car.

Shenanigans

181 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:55:14pm

re: #174 Gus

He’s high on winning.

182 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:55:37pm

re: #178 Varek Raith

Iknowrite.

ZOMG! They’re letting it all hang out tonight. WHITE VICTORY! // (half)

183 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:55:51pm

re: #181 jaunte

He’s high on winning.

I’ll say.

184 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:55:52pm

Fuck you, too, O’Mara, you racist POS.

185 BlazerBeav  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:16pm

re: #153 McSpiff

14 comments in 2 years. Interesting night to decide to check in with us.

Sorry, normally just choose to read but felt like interjecting for once. I realize that makes my position or comments have less weight as I don’t provide personal life status updates in comments, but I didn’t see any requirements as to how often one posts.

186 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:19pm
187 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:20pm
188 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:21pm
189 Kid A  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:21pm

The bar I’m in erupted in cheers when the verdict was read. I wish I was kidding.

190 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:27pm

re: #156 theye1

The account of the actual altercation was mostly the same. Secondly, level of injuries has no real factor on whether it was self defense or not. Sorry, the prosecution had really weak case. If anything, I would blame prosecutorial overreach as the cause of the not guilty verdict.

The level of injury obviously has a real factor on whether it was self defense. It is really unlikely that you’re going to be grievously hurt in a scuffle like that.

And Zimmerman’s account of the actual altercation wasn’t mostly the same. In one version, he has Martin actually saying he’s going to kill him. He also was unable to ever explain how he was able to draw the gun, center it, and shoot it while at the same time helpless to otherwise fight back.

I fully understand that the evidence wasn’t overwhelming, and the jury verdict is, if regrettable, understandable. What I don’t understand is people like you who have this bizarre attitude that it was a foregone conclusion.

191 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:30pm

re: #177 krypto

Meaning what? Am I talking to a uniform mob of some sort?

Not at all, I can’t imagine trying to live in a complex and confusing world without enough logic in my head to figure out how a man killing an unarmed kid could result in a manslaughter conviction. It must be very difficult.

192 Tigger2  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:32pm

re: #161 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

This deserves 100 updings.

193 twisty  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:33pm

Certain people hoped for a riot. From Trayvon supporters there’s nothing but a huge outpouring of sorrow and love for the family from all corners. That’s a vigil.

194 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:56:46pm

re: #179 BlazerBeav

Which is odd, considering how big the lies and contradictions were.
Not inconsequential at all.

195 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:57:01pm

Okay…closed my twitter feed for the night, and I’m signing off here as well. Got engaged with some racist trolls and am just done. Take care everyone.

196 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:57:19pm

re: #187 Lidane

[Embedded content]

SHUT UP WESLEY!
/couldn’t resist

197 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:57:31pm

re: #189 Kid Hail Satan

The bar I’m in erupted in cheers when the verdict was read. I wish I was kidding.

Find a different bar.

198 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:58:51pm
199 calochortus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:59:10pm

re: #193 twisty

Certain people hoped for a riot. From Trayvon supporters there’s nothing but a huge outpouring of sorrow and love for the family from all corners. That’s a vigil.

Oh, don’t worry, somewhere some black person will commit a crime tonight and that will be all the proof those certain people need.

200 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:59:16pm

Seriously, what the hell is with the cheering over a dead teenager?
Man, that’s fucked up.

201 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:59:23pm

O’Mara, on a question posed if the races of Zimmerman and Martin were reversed “If [Zimmerman] was black, [arrest and murder charges] would have never happened”.

Yeah. This case was NEVER about race.

202 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:59:28pm

re: #65 McSpiff

Killing an unarmed kid, totally unnecessarily is reasonable? Yeah, time again for you to fuck off with your tail between your legs. Despicable.

Thanks for the downding DF. Why not stick around? Coward.

203 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:59:44pm
204 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 7:59:57pm

re: #193 twisty

At Fox, that’s a riot.

205 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:00:29pm
206 122 Year Old Obama  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:00:34pm

An unarmed teen is dead. HE’S FUCKING GONE.
Where the fuck is the empathy? His parents. Oh good lord his parents. I can only imagine how they’re feeling right now.

207 twisty  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:00:54pm

re: #200 Varek Raith

Seriously, what the hell is with the cheering over a dead teenager?
Man, that’s fucked up.

Starting to hear some internet reports of fireworks being set off. Sick as all hell.

208 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:01:08pm

re: #205 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I don’t even…

209 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:01:24pm

This is about the worst possible outcome for gun-rights lovers, though they probably don’t realize it yet.

210 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:01:29pm

Wow, this is very telling.
Very.

211 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:01:45pm

Ugly Americans still ugly.

212 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:02:03pm

re: #205 jaunte

Wow.

I would advise that family to leave now. For all that woman knows, the neighborhood may decide to imitate the Tulsa Race Riots.

213 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:02:29pm

re: #175 theye1

Reasonable doubt and the presumption of innocence.

Secondly, does florida allow for civil in case of self defense? In some jurisdiction they don’t.

No, not really. If Trayvon Martin’s family were to go through with a lawsuit, Zimmerman could now claim that Martin was committing a forcible felony by attacking him. And in Florida, if that defense holds up the law provides tht the plaintiff has to pay not only the defendant’s legal fees but also any other costs the defendant incurred in fighting the suit.

214 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:02:42pm
215 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:02:47pm

re: #209 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This is about the worst possible outcome for gun-rights lovers, though they probably don’t realize it yet.

A white guy killed a black kid. Why would they care?

216 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:03:14pm

re: #168 jaunte

OFFS

217 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:03:35pm

JHC

218 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:03:53pm
219 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:03:59pm

What in the fucking the world is wrong with these people?

220 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:04:26pm

re: #215 Lidane

A white guy killed a black kid. Why would they care?

Because this verdict means that an armed guy who loses a fistfight can just shoot his way out if there aren’t any witnesses.

221 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:04:27pm

re: #202 McSpiff

I’m here. But there was a question about the law that was asked that I knew the answer to, so I was answering that.

222 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:04:31pm

O’Mara, you have no idea what Trayvon Martin was thinking.

Shut your racist trap, you POS.

223 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:04:35pm

How about a Federal DoJ Civil Rights case? That’s what you do when the klan jury and the klan sheriff turn the klan defendants loose.

224 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:04:58pm
225 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:05:01pm

re: #220 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Because this verdict means that an armed guy who loses a fistfight can just shoot his way out if there aren’t any witnesses.

Only if he’s white. If that armed guy is black, he’s going to prison or death row.

226 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:05:09pm

O’Mara showing his true colors.
Wow…

227 122 Year Old Obama  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:05:17pm

re: #219 Gus

I ask myself that every day.

228 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:05:32pm

re: #189 Kid Hail Satan

The bar I’m in erupted in cheers when the verdict was read. I wish I was kidding.

Texas, right?

229 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:05:39pm

re: #185 BlazerBeav

So, you douchebag when the opportunity to douche presents itself?

Fun.

230 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:05:58pm

re: #221 Dark_Falcon

I’m here. But there was a question about the law that was asked that I knew the answer to, so I was answering that.

So care to explain how you believe this is reasonable? Please detail which part of Zimmerman getting out of the car, following Martin, and gunning him down you would classify as “reasonable”.

231 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:06:04pm

re: #187 Lidane

Wil Wheaton, awesome as ever.

232 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:06:22pm
233 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:06:34pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

How about a Federal DoJ Civil Rights case? That’s what you do when the klan jury and the klan sheriff turn the klan defendants loose.

There really hasn’t been strong enough evidence produced that he profiled him because of his race.

This will probably just be another injustice for black America to accept. We’ve got a black president and we still have black kids arrested eight times more often than white kids who are committing the same crimes at the same rates. We still have white murderers of blacks, when convicted, receiving lighter sentences.

2013.

234 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:06:34pm

re: #189 Kid Hail Satan

Fuck, mang.

235 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:06:59pm
236 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:07:14pm

re: #227 122 Year Old Obama

I ask myself that every day.

My neck will start hurting so I lose track sometimes.

237 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:07:20pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

How about a Federal DoJ Civil Rights case? That’s what you do when the klan jury and the klan sheriff turn the klan defendants loose.

Possible, but it would be a tough case. As I understand it, those cases require proof that the accused intended to deprive the victim of his or her civil rights. I think the DoJ would face an extremely difficult challenge in proving intent.

238 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:07:36pm

re: #233 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

There really hasn’t been strong enough evidence produced that he profiled him because of his race.

This will probably just be another injustice for black America to accept. We’ve got a black president and we still have black kids arrested eight times more often than white kids who are committing the same crimes at the same rates. We still have white murderers of blacks, when convicted, receiving lighter sentences.

2013.

Ah. I see. So the Panthers were right.

239 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:07:54pm
240 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:07:55pm

I did not expect to see this kind of celebration.
Man…

241 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:08:05pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

How about a Federal DoJ Civil Rights case? That’s what you do when the klan jury and the klan sheriff turn the klan defendants loose.

I’ve seen posts on rightwing sites congratulating the Zimmerman trial jury members (some of who were apparently seen congratulating the defense team) for their jury nullification efforts.

242 Jocko's Rocket Ship  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:09:07pm

The defense attorney just folded on the death of his niece to the story. That’s truly a scumbag move.

243 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:09:08pm
Not at all, I can’t imagine trying to live in a complex and confusing world without enough logic in my head to figure out how a man killing an unarmed kid could result in a manslaughter conviction. It must be very difficult.

Maybe it is your own logic that is warped by your prejudices — I feel like I am at Fox nation reading the sort of nonsense Foxbots make up when I read your made up personal claims about me because I merely happen to point out that the evidence in court made it obvious what the verdict had to be.

Nobody should have wound up dead. Carrying the gun was a bad idea, getting out of the car wasn’t smart, etc., but it was not against any law and was not any form of assault. The evidence is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Self-defense is a valid defense against a charge of manslaughter just as much as against a charge of murder.

Based on the evidence presented in the court, the decision reached was fully expected.

244 Skandal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:09:12pm

@fivefifths: A system cannot fail those it was never built to protect

245 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:10:30pm

re: #240 Varek Raith

I did not expect to see this kind of celebration.
Man…

Oh, I did. I knew that if Zimmerman walked, the RWNJs were going to go into full party mode.

246 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:10:34pm

re: #238 Decatur Deb

Ah. I see. So the Panthers were right.

I think, like Marx, they were right in their critique and incorrect in their solution. But Malcom X and Martin Luther King Jr. aren’t as far apart as people often think. Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream. He knew it wasn’t a reality.

All of this translates to me as Must Work Harder.

It sure as hell ain’t dawn yet.

247 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:10:38pm

re: #226 Varek Raith

O’Mara showing his true colors.
Wow…

Well, to be fair, he probably figures he’s found his gold mine of defending future child killers from the oppressive anti-white justice system.

Gotta protect your market share dontchaknow.

/spits

248 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:10:55pm
249 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:11:49pm
250 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:12:09pm

re: #243 krypto

There is not evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.

Do you think maybe tonight, of all nights, is not the night to scold people about this? If you’re right, well, your side won. There’s still a dead teenager and a grief-stricken family whose kid got taken away because of Zimmerman’s choices. Can you have some empathy?

251 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:12:56pm

Just walked in a few minutes ago to hear the news. Tragic. No other way to put it.

I figured the regular LGF readers who make up the “Zimmerman is a martyr” fan club would be doing a jig. Didn’t expect that a bunch of new readers would jump into gloat.

Seriously, folks, if you can sit there and solemnly nod your head and say justice was done in this case, you’ve got the empathy of a rock.

252 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:13:11pm
253 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:13:52pm

re: #243 krypto

What evidence was presented that Martin initiated the confrontation? Zimmerman’s word? I have no idea how you or that Jury could find that credible. I’m sure even with your thick skull you’d manage to not say “I shot the kid in cold blood”.

254 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:14:08pm

re: #245 Lidane

Oh, I did. I knew that if Zimmerman walked, the RWNJs were going to go into full party mode.

Mark my words: George Zimmerman will hereafter be a beneficiary of wingnut welfare. He will profit from shooting Trayvon Martin because that act embodies so many different aspects of the wingnut authoritarian fantasy, and they will pay good money for his role as surrogate.

255 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:14:14pm
256 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:14:32pm

re: #243 krypto

I had no axe to grind. This should not have been made into a case for the gun nuts agenda, and neither should it have been spun into some war against racism fantasy.

Yes

Maybe it is your own logic that is warped by your prejudices — I feel like I am at Fox nation reading the sort of nonsense Foxbots make up when I read your made up personal claims about me because I merely happen to point out that the evidence in court made it obvious what the verdict had to be.

Nobody should have wound up dead. Carrying the gun was a bad idea, getting out of the car wasn’t smart, etc., but it was not against any law and was not any form of assault. The evidence is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Self-defense is a valid defense against a charge of manslaughter just as much as against a charge of murder.

Based on the evidence presented in the court, the decision reached was fully expected.

I really question that interpretation. I do not think the evidence points to that.

I think the evidence is vague, here.

257 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:15:20pm
258 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:16:07pm

re: #254 The Ghost of a Flea

Mark my words: George Zimmerman will hereafter be a beneficiary of wingnut welfare. He will profit from shooting Trayvon Martin because that act embodies so many different aspects of the wingnut authoritarian fantasy, and they will pay good money for his role as surrogate.

Of course he will.

There will be the inevitable Fox News gig, the ghostwritten book on how he courageously battled a scary ni-CLANG and lived to tell about it, and the honored guest status at the 2016 Republican National Convention.

259 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:16:17pm


260 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:17:02pm

Jesus, racism and sexism are fucking exhausting. Think I’ll have a good, purging cry and go to bed now.

261 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:17:18pm

re: #258 Lidane

You forgot about his new gig as ALEC’s professional expert witness in future SYG efforts.

262 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:17:44pm

re: #243 krypto

Maybe it is your own logic that is warped by your prejudices — I feel like I am at Fox nation reading the sort of nonsense Foxbots make up when I read your made up personal claims about me because I merely happen to point out that the evidence in court made it obvious what the verdict had to be.

Nobody should have wound up dead. Carrying the gun was a bad idea, getting out of the car wasn’t smart, etc., but it was not against any law and was not any form of assault. The evidence is that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Self-defense is a valid defense against a charge of manslaughter just as much as against a charge of murder.

Based on the evidence presented in the court, the decision reached was fully expected.

Oh, for fuck’s sake. The only “evidence” that Martin attacked Zimmerman is the word of the guy who stalked Martin and murdered him.

Basically the lesson here is that if you can isolate a black kid and murder him with no witnesses, the average American jury will let you off.

263 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:18:14pm

re: #260 Justanotherhuman

Jesus, racism and sexism are fucking exhausting. Think I’ll have a good, purging cry and go to bed now.

I’m too wound up now, but go to your rest and sweet slumbers.

264 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:18:19pm

Seriously, whats the standard for manslaughter now? Clear evidence that you were 100% unprovoked in shooting someone? 5 male witnesses?

265 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:19:10pm

re: #264 McSpiff

This becomes a powerful argument for more cameras in public/common areas.

266 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:19:33pm

re: #190 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion, who the hell knows what jury is or is not going to do? But using the evidence presented in trial, I can’t see how a jury could come to any other conclusion. Especially since this was a 2nd degree murder trial, even if the Jury was told they could consider lesser charges. The prosecution was incompetent, their star witness was an admitted liar (for understandable reasons, but you still have to take it into account).

It wasn’t just me. Most legal analysts agreed that Zimmerman was going to get off the charges.

267 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:19:45pm

re: #264 McSpiff

Seriously, whats the standard for manslaughter now? Clear evidence that you were 100% unprovoked in shooting someone? 5 male witnesses?

He almost blew up my car so I had to shoot him.

268 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:19:51pm

re: #264 McSpiff

Seriously, whats the standard for manslaughter now? Clear evidence that you were 100% unprovoked in shooting someone? 5 white male witnesses?

Fixed.

269 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:20:26pm

re: #240 Varek Raith

I did not expect to see this kind of celebration.
Man…

Exactly the opposite of what they were predicting. An actual look in the mirror moment.

Horrible people.

270 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:20:50pm

I see Travon was fond guilty.

I am really glad that I don’t have any children. Every now and then you get a reminder that this country hates black people, black men especially. Always has and always will.

271 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:21:10pm
272 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:21:37pm

I haz a rage.

273 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:21:50pm

re: #266 theye1

I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion, who the hell knows what jury is or is not going to do? But using the evidence presented in trial, I can’t see how a jury could come to any other conclusion. Especially since this was a 2nd degree murder trial, even if the Jury was told they could consider lesser charges. The prosecution was incompetent, their star witness was an admitted liar (for understandable reasons, but you still have to take it into account).

It wasn’t just me. Most legal analysts agreed that Zimmerman was going to get off the charges.

I’m not a legal analyst and had a feeling Zimmerman would beat the charges. Mainly because Zimmerman murdered a black kid in a southern state with no witnesses.

If you think this case would have turned out the same way if Martin was white, you’re insane.

274 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:22:25pm

re: #253 McSpiff

What evidence was presented that Martin initiated the confrontation? Zimmerman’s word? I have no idea how you or that Jury could find that credible. I’m sure even with your thick skull you’d manage to not say “I shot the kid in cold blood”.

Cold blood? No sir, that is not what this was. That would have been Zimmerman walking up to Martin intending to shoot him, and no evidence of that was presented. Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

275 RemainCalm  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:22:35pm

Young black men: damned if they do carry firearms, and dead if they don’t.

276 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:23:01pm

re: #272 Vicious Babushka

I haz a rage.

That’s a start. Now turn it into social action.

277 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:23:19pm

Zimmerman was the aggressor. Martin isn’t around to state his own self defense case. Except, in Florida self-defense only works if you’re the one with the gun.

278 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:23:48pm

Teh Twitterz rwnj’s are erupting in racist hate, murdering Trayvon all over again.
I want to throw up.

279 122 Year Old Obama  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:24:13pm

re: #278 Vicious Babushka

VOMIT

280 Sionainn  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:24:38pm

I’ve got to get off the computer. I’m so depressed.

281 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:02pm

re: #278 Vicious Babushka

Teh Twitterz rwnj’s are erupting in racist hate, murdering Trayvon all over again.
I want to throw up.

[Embedded content]

Holy Shlicking Flit.

282 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:10pm

re: #266 theye1

I don’t think it’s a forgone conclusion, who the hell knows what jury is or is not going to do? But using the evidence presented in trial, I can’t see how a jury could come to any other conclusion.

Okay, so do you think people, like me, who disagree with you are just stupid, or are we blind to the truth because we’re deluded by something, or we just are bloody-handed freaks who want vengeance, or ignorant of the law, or what?

I can promise you I”m not any of the former. I understand the facts of the case, and if I were on the jury, I would have voted for manslaughter. I know others that would have voted for murder 2, because, by their logic, bringing the gun into the situation showed a depraved disregard for life on the part of Zimmerman. I half agree, but think that Zimmerman’s stupidity saves him here, that he really thought gun was magic make-safe totem.

Anyway: In a case with this little direct evidence, flawed evidence collection, flawed interrogation, etc. etc., there is an uphill battle for the prosecution, to be sure. But they put plenty on the table to show that Zimmerman was lying about the severity of the attack, and that, to me, is sufficient to convict him. The only reason anyone thinks this could be self-defense is that Zimmerman says it was. Nobody saw who initiated physical contact.

So I understand, completely, someone who thinks that given the evidence, Zimmerman should get off. That still leaves the problem that in our justice system, that’s far more likely in the case of the murder of a black person than a white person. And it still mystified me why you can’t see, rationally, that obviously there was a case for the prosecution as well. It’s a little strident.

283 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:12pm

re: #269 Stanley Sea

Exactly the opposite of what they were predicting. An actual look in the mirror moment.

Horrible people.

FIREWORKS? people are setting off fireworks in celebration?

284 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:21pm
285 Gus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:27pm

re: #280 Sionainn

I’ve got to get off the computer. I’m so depressed.

Take care of yourself.

286 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:34pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Cold blood? No sir, that is not what this was. That would have been Zimmerman walking up to Martin intending to shoot him, and no evidence of that was presented. Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

Yeah, science has proved Skittles and iced tea can turn a black kid from a potential criminal wearing a hoodie into the Hulk wearing a hoodie.

“Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.” What the fuck…

287 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:35pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Cold blood? No sir, that is not what this was. That would have been Zimmerman walking up to Martin intending to shoot him, and no evidence of that was presented. Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

More accurately, “hot-bloodedly stalking the teenage boy until such time as a confrontation occurred…coincidentally, no doubt”

288 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:25:43pm

I’m probably the only person who hasn’t followed the case. Was there ever a manslaughter instruction given to the jury?

289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:00pm

re: #270 moderatelyradicalliberal

I see Travon was fond guilty.

I am really glad that I don’t have any children. Every now and then you get a reminder that this country hates black people, black men especially. Always has and always will.

Oh dude. I don’t think always. Or rather, I think we can shrink their hateful shit down and squeeze it into smaller and smaller places. But fuck, it’s slow going.

290 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:05pm

re: #284 Vicious Babushka

I want to harm this man

291 Internet Tough Guy  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:21pm

re: #288 SpaceJesus

Yes, manslaughter was on the table.

292 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:24pm
293 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:29pm

re: #288 SpaceJesus

I’m probably the only person who hasn’t followed the case. Was there ever a manslaughter instruction given to the jury?

Yes, the jury asked questions about it, too.

294 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:41pm

Good Lord..the worst possible thing. Fox has Geraldo reporting now live from Sanford.

Blaming the victim…deifying Zimmerman

295 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:47pm

re: #291 Internet Tough Guy

Ok, I’m pretty baffled by this verdict then.

296 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:26:54pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Cold blood? No sir, that is not what this was. That would have been Zimmerman walking up to Martin intending to shoot him, and no evidence of that was presented. Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

No, he only claimed that. Based on the ME’s evidence, I do not believe he was punched or knocked down. He stood away from Martin and shot straight into him. And thanks to his cop buddies and his dad he got away with it.

297 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:27:10pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Cold blood? No sir, that is not what this was. That would have been Zimmerman walking up to Martin intending to shoot him, and no evidence of that was presented. Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

Think calmly and rationally about the events that lead to Zimmerman supposedly being punched by a kid half his size.

298 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:27:15pm

re: #292 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

I guess they need to live long enough to be killed by some crazy racist.

299 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:27:18pm

Zimmerman’s eyes are too close together.

300 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:27:46pm

I think George Zimmerman did the wrong thing by walking around with a gun, especially if he’s doing anything other than minding his own business. It’s too bad they couldn’t charge him with something more appropriate than 2nd Degree Murder. Even though they added the possibility of Manslaughter at the end, I think overcharging him hurt the prosecution’s case.

However, there’s so much hate and vitriol on both sides of this I really hesitate to stick my nose in it. I’m still sickened by the original statement from the New Black Panthers, which first focused attention to this:

See:

Youtube Video

This was made during the period of time before Mr. Zimmerman was charged. Defending my identity as a Jew is one of my most important priorities. When I see the Jews blamed for something that they had nothing to do with, it’s hard for me to think about anything else. Granted this is a fringe, an extreme element. But their statements, tempered a bit, have been carried forward by larger segments of the population.

On the other side, I don’t want to make Mr. Zimmerman a hero. It’s simply stupid to carry a gun unless you absolutely need to (like you transport diamonds or gold for a living, or you’re a kidnap risk).

301 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:28:08pm

re: #299 rosiee

Zimmerman’s eyes are too close together.

I’m more concerned about his distance from the nearest prison.

302 Tigger2  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:28:10pm

Fuck you Bryan you ungodly bitch.

303 sagehen  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:28:22pm

re: #283 Stanley Sea

FIREWORKS? people are setting off fireworks in celebration?

um… I don’t where the original tweeter or her friend live, but here in Manhattan the opera in Central Park finished their free concert and the fireworks started at, totally coincidentally, the same time the verdict came in. I’m certain it’s unrelated.

304 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:28:28pm

This is a racist white dude:

305 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:28:49pm

re: #300 ReamWorks SKG

Don’t let the New Black Panthers, who are like 15 people, jerk you around and make you respond to their dumb bullshit.

306 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:29:19pm

re: #299 rosiee

Zimmerman’s eyes are too close together.

twitter.com

307 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:29:46pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Cold blood? No sir, that is not what this was. That would have been Zimmerman walking up to Martin intending to shoot him, and no evidence of that was presented. Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

He got punched and knocked down after calling the kid a suspect, asshole and either punk or coon. It strains all credulity to believe he hadn’t prejudged Martin and harbored no hostile intent.

Concerned about Martin’s well being Zimmerman was not.

308 Belafon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:29:49pm

re: #278 Vicious Babushka

Talesin is probably right. And I would disown him.

309 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:30:14pm

re: #278 Vicious Babushka

I’m going to end up repeating this again and again, which is my version of trying to not just go nuts:

The people supporting George Zimmerman are a dozen times worse than him, because in their world, the black kid is always the thug that always needs to be followed and suspected, and always needs to be shot when they resist.

310 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:30:15pm

re: #273 Mattand

On the evidence presented, I would still argue not guilty.

re: #282 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Difference of opinion, mainly. I just don’t think the evidence presented proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, whether a brought a gun into it has no bearing on whether it was 2nd degree murder.

311 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:30:32pm

re: #305 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Maybe so, but it’s been parroted by tens of thousands more. As I said, I think Zimmerman made a big mistake, but I can’t stick my nose in too far before I hit a nutjob.

312 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:30:36pm

From the small fragment of testimony, evidence, and bench instruction that we see out here I probably would have had to go with reasonable doubt.

I’m also convinced that Zimmerman is morally guilty of that death.

To fix the injustice, fix the law. To fix the law, fix the legislators. To fix the legislators, fix the electorate. It’s going to be a long war.

313 sagehen  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:31:05pm

re: #297 Batman

Think calmly and rationally about the events that lead to Zimmerman supposedly being punched by a kid half his size.

Like how did he “just happen” to get within arm’s reach?

(and hey, did he at any time say to Trayvonn, “I’m neighborhood watch, I don’t know you, why are you here?”)

314 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:31:59pm

re: #278 Vicious Babushka

“enter Witness Protection Program and pose as an illegal”? Hell’s Bells, that “ABOwarrior” asshole isn’t just attacking Martin for having been black, he’s attacking Zimmerman for being Hispanic.

Well, I’ve got an answer for that:

Youtube Video

315 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:32:19pm

re: #312 Decatur Deb

I’m also convinced that Zimmerman is morally responsible for Martin’s death.

316 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:32:24pm

re: #310 theye1

Difference of opinion, mainly. I just don’t think the evidence presented proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, whether a brought a gun into it has no bearing on whether it was 2nd degree murder.

Okay. Do you understand that I get that we have a ‘difference of opinon’, I’m asking you why you can’t even bring yourself to see the other point of view? Why it’s incomprehensible to you that someone would think that a man who followed a teenager for no good reason, a man who was armed, who knew he shouldn’t follow the kid but did it anyway because ‘they always get away’, a man who called the kid a ‘fucking punk’ after he shot and killed him, was not being honest when he claimed self defense?

317 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:32:37pm

re: #309 The Ghost of a Flea

I’m going to end up repeating this again and again, which is my version of trying to not just go nuts:

The people supporting George Zimmerman are a dozen times worse than him, because in their world, the black kid is always the thug that always needs to be followed and suspected, and always needs to be shot when they resist.

That’s half the damn country you’re talking about. That may not make you go nuts, but it’s enough for some serious anger and deep sadness.

318 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:32:38pm

I am disgusted that this asshole has “Jewish” in his Twitter name.

319 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:33:36pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

Odysseus was an asshole.

320 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:33:47pm

Okay, I have an idea on what I must do.

I want to create a (secret) society that takes its cues from Abe Lincoln, TR, and FDR.

With decoder rings and secret messages (not lame ones like “DRINK YOUR OVALTINE”).

Abe doesn’t count, party-wise: he came from a turbulent time in politics.

TR was a progressive Republican — and would be laughed out of the House today.

FDR was a fairly conservative Democrat, until he had to take huge steps to stave off the Great Depression.

All three saved our country, in one way or another.


What do the Lizardim think?

321 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:33:51pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

I am disgusted that this asshole has “Jewish” in his Twitter name.

[Embedded content]

I’m still wishing for people to get sick cancer and I don’t feel a lick of guilt about it.

322 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:34:03pm

re: #321 moderatelyradicalliberal

I’m still wishing for people to get sick cancer and I don’t feel a lick of guilt about it.

I mean dick cancer.

323 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:34:10pm

re: #278 Vicious Babushka

Teh Twitterz rwnj’s are erupting in racist hate, murdering Trayvon all over again.
I want to throw up.

What. The. Fuck?!?

324 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:34:38pm

re: #319 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Odysseus was an asshole.

This guy is a Jewish MoFo?

325 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:35:00pm

re: #310 theye1

On the evidence presented, I would still argue not guilty.

If you say so.

326 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:35:01pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

Zimmerman fired after getting punched and knocked down.

Which only happened at all because he ignored the dispatcher and got out of his car.

It is now perfectly legal in Florida to stalk, harass, assault, and shoot an unarmed person. Just make sure there are no witnesses and that your intended victim is black.

327 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:35:49pm

PUKE

328 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:36:14pm

re: #326 Lidane

Martin was in possession of a deadly sidewalk.

329 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:36:36pm

re: #297 Batman

Think calmly and rationally about the events that lead to Zimmerman supposedly being punched by a kid half his size.

Half his size? I don’t think that’s accurate. Martin was 17 and he was not small. Many of the photos of him that have been used are from when he was 12 or 13, and don’t reflect his size at the time of his death.

330 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:36:44pm

re: #326 Lidane

Which only happened at all because he ignored the dispatcher and got out of his car.

It is now perfectly legal in Florida to stalk, harass, assault, and shoot an unarmed person. Just make sure there are no witnesses and that your intended victim is black.

…and that the cops fuck up evidence gathering. Coincidentally, I’m sure.

331 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:36:49pm

re: #326 Lidane

Which only happened at all because he ignored the dispatcher and got out of his car.

It is now perfectly legal in Florida to stalk, harass, assault, and shoot an unarmed person. Just make sure there are no witnesses and that your intended victim is black.

Don’t get tangled up in the timing. It was legal years ago—this just proves it.

332 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:38:24pm


What good is that going to do?

333 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:38:30pm

re: #326 Lidane

Which only happened at all because he ignored the dispatcher and got out of his car.

It is now perfectly legal in Florida to stalk, harass, assault, and shoot an unarmed person. Just make sure there are no witnesses and that your intended victim is black.

This. The fact that people who saying that justice was done are either ignoring how still fucked up America is racially, or just don’t care.

334 urbanmeemaw  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:39:42pm

re: #157 DeciderGeraldo Rivera is a fecal fragment.

335 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:40:02pm

re: #332 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]


What good is that going to do?

They can bring a Civil Rights case, like for Cheny, Schwerner, and Goodman.

336 Ming  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:40:07pm

re: #252 Lidane

[Embedded content]
Regardless of what the law says, one thing is true: If George Zimmerman had just stayed in his car, Trayvon Martin would be alive.

Yes, absolutely. And that’s pretty much what the 911 operator told him, more than once, on tape.

337 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:40:13pm

re: #333 Mattand

This. The fact that people who saying that justice was done are either ignoring how still fucked up America is racially, or just don’t care.

Those people are the reason this country is fucked up racially. And apparently they have managed to get laws passed all over the country that make shooting the people that they hate and fear legal.

338 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:40:43pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Half his size? I don’t think that’s accurate. Martin was 17 and he was not small. Many of the photos of him that have been used are from when he was 12 or 13, and don’t reflect his size at the time of his death.

Cool beans. Now how about the part where you argument is wrong? That Zimmerman was clearly and incontrovertibly the aggressor? That he did everything wrong and created a situation where he felt the need to use a gun?

339 twisty  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:40:53pm

There’s a lot of people here getting in their cars, a really unusual amount of traffic for this time of night. This is South Carolina and I’m getting some seriously bad vibes. Praying for safety for black Americans tonight especially.

340 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:40:58pm

re: #310 theye1

On the evidence presented, I would still argue not guilty.

Difference of opinion, mainly. I just don’t think the evidence presented proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, whether a brought a gun into it has no bearing on whether it was 2nd degree murder.

OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE.

Rationalist, are you? Excising all emotion to look at the facts? A scientist?

Also (and this is my personal curiosity), do you suffer from any cognitive issues? Aspergers, autism, Homling-Kreuznasser Syndrome, or the “Vibe”?

341 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:41:16pm

re: #335 Decatur Deb

They can bring a Civil Rights case, like for Cheny, Schwerner, and Goodman.

The DoJ can?

342 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:41:32pm

re: #332 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]


What good is that going to do?

Yeah, dammit, Martin was convicted of attacking Zimmerman fairly in a court of law. Why can’t they leave poor George alone?

343 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:41:58pm

Driving While Black
Walking While Black
Breathing While Black

Can all get you killed.

344 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:42:01pm

re: #333 Mattand

This. The fact that people who saying that justice was done are either ignoring how still fucked up America is racially, or just don’t care.

I’ll take door number two.

Whether or not Zimmerman himself is racist…and I suspect he is, given what his dad and friends have said…the reaction to this trial has been all about vindicating the guy with more privilege and casting doubt on the dead, subaltern kid.

345 palomino  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:42:14pm

Good, now George Zimmerman can get back to doing what he does best: erroneously profiling unarmed teens and then pursuing them at night for no reason. Amateur wannabe cops, just what we need more of.

346 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:42:21pm

re: #341 NJDhockeyfan

The DoJ can?

Yup. That’s the agency IIRC.

347 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:42:59pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

I am disgusted that this asshole has “Jewish” in his Twitter name.

[Embedded content]

And that right there is something that angers me: Gloating assholes.

It’s one thing to believe that based on the evidence presented Zimmerman should be found Not Guilty. It is quite another to consider what happened good in any way. Trayvon Martin had not committed a crime when Zimmerman caught sight of him and he did not deserve to die.

348 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:43:01pm

Bryan calling Al Sharpton a “race-mongerer” (whatever that is)
Bryan u r just as shitty a racist as Al Sharpton—I saw the Steve Deace video u turd.

349 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:43:45pm

No rioting.
But a lot of white people celebrating.
Says a lot.

350 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:44:03pm

re: #318 Vicious Babushka

O/T, but I knew you didn’t roll on shabbos, and was waiting and hoping you’d look at my Wonder Woman page when you were back rolling.

Your dedicated goy grandchild,

C.

351 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:44:14pm

One of several hate mails so far tonight:

Eat shit, Psycho Charles of Culver City….the verdict is NOT guilty.

Accept the verdict, Chuckie.

All of your faggot ass assumptions about what really happened turned out to be WRONG.

Eat shit…not that you don’t already, when you give rim jobs.

352 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:07pm

re: #340 chadu

Hey now, don’t use Aspergers and autism to mock people with. It’s shitty.

353 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:22pm

Gloating MF’ers want a riot. Really really bad.

354 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:28pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

One of several hate mails so far tonight:

Definitely tipjar-worthy.

355 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:35pm

re: #346 Decatur Deb

Yup. That’s the agency IIRC.

I know the Martin family can but I didn’t know the Feds could also do it.

356 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:38pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

One of several hate mails so far tonight:

Charming…

///

357 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:42pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

That’s… uh… quite the imagination…?
Yeesh.

358 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:42pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

I do not understand this kind of hate, I simply do not.

359 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:46:40pm

re: #355 NJDhockeyfan

I know the Martin family can but I didn’t know the Feds could also do it.

It’s not a civil suit. They are looking for criminal violations of the Civil Rights Act.

360 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:50:03pm

re: #325 Mattand

If you’re going to accuse me of being a racist, than accuse me of it.

re: #316 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I understand that point of view, normally I would support it as well. However, with the evidence presented I just can’t.

re: #340 chadu
So instead of debating with the evidence presented, you proceed with personal attacks.

361 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:50:19pm
362 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:50:20pm

re: #349 Varek Raith

No rioting.
But a lot of white people celebrating.
Says a lot.

The people celebrating view this as a successful lynching.

Yeah, I said it. Won’t be taking it back, either.

363 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:50:29pm

re: #350 chadu

O/T, but I knew you didn’t roll on shabbos, and was waiting and hoping you’d look at my Wonder Woman page when you were back rolling.

Your dedicated goy grandchild,

C.

I’ll look at it tomorrow, I’m too pissed off right now. :(

364 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:50:54pm
365 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:51:00pm

This from my 63 year old black father when I said the justice system failed Travon and his family: “You can’t ever really be failed by a system that was never designed to protect you in the first place”.

366 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:51:54pm
367 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:52:03pm

I can’t believe they didn’t find him guilty of at least manslaughter, because he was the cause of Martin’s death.

No justice in Florida tonight.

368 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:09pm

Mason is right, but just not in the way he thinks.

369 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:12pm

re: #360 theye1

I understand that point of view, normally I would support it as well. However, with the evidence presented I just can’t.

Why do you keep repeating this. I know this. I understand this. What I’m asking is why you lack the capacity to understand that other people are being reasonable when they say they would have voted for manslaughter?

370 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:33pm
371 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:47pm

re: #360 theye1

If you’re going to accuse me of being a racist, than accuse me of it.

It’s more like being blinded by white privilege than outright racism, to be honest.

Now this is the point where you get indignant about me assuming you’re white.

372 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:49pm

re: #368 Vicious Babushka

Yup.

373 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:51pm

re: #340 chadu

It is neither inappropriate nor offensive to examine a criminal case dispassionately. To attribute such a decision to do so to a mental condition is inappropriate, however.

374 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:53:53pm

re: #351 Charles Johnson

Part of this country has turned from being stupid and uninformed into outright evil.

375 Lancelot Link  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:54:52pm

re: #339 twisty

Praying for safety for black Americans tonight especially.

Tonight I predict a black man protesting the verdict will either be shot (as Bob Owens promised) or be arrested for it and serve more time than Zimmerman did.

Please God let me be wrong.

376 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:55:19pm

I had to close the Tweet deck.

377 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:55:48pm

re: #374 chadu

Part of this country has turned from being stupid and uninformed into outright evil.

Turned? No, they just got more comfortable. If you can kill and unarmed black kid and get away with it, you can be racist on twitter.

378 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:56:03pm
379 Shvaughn  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:56:24pm

I’m changing my icon to black in solidarity with Trayvon’s supporters and my black friends on the net.

380 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:57:04pm
381 Major Tom  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:58:14pm

Fairy dust, magic, and justice.

382 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:58:24pm

re: #352 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Hey now, don’t use Aspergers and autism to mock people with. It’s shitty.

I wasn’t using it to mock, intentionally. I know many of the Lizardim here suffer on the spectrum. Heck, I’m on the edge of the spectrum myself.

My point was: divorcing emotion from facts is… odd. An odd thing.

If I have offended any Lizardim or their relations, I apologize.

Let me know how I can make amends for my verbal/written mistake.

383 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:58:27pm

re: #380 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Maybe not, but is it legal to shoot them?

384 Major Tom  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:58:45pm

The real lesson: Next time just remember to scrape a little skin under the corpse’s finger nails and it never makes it to trial.

385 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:59:14pm

I don’t get people decrying the racism of the right while saying the verdict was just. The self-defense argument is built on pure racism — that a black teenager should know to submit to any white adult that accosts them. Trayvon Martin should have just known that his blackness would intimidate Zimmerman and give him legal justification to shoot him.

I reiterate what I said when this was first in the news: if I was the teenager Zimmerman accosted, he would have been lucky if the worst that happened to him was he kissed pavement.

386 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:59:28pm

When people talk about “the evidence,” they’re ignoring the recording of Zimmerman calling Martin a suspect, asshole and either punk or coon. That’s evidence that goes to context and Zimmerman’s frame of mind, and it’s an absolutely rock solid, undisputed fact that he said those things prior to ever meeting or talking to Martin face to face.

How credulous do you have to be to believe he’s not the one who caused shit to go sour?

387 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:00:42pm

re: #386 goddamnedfrank

When people talk about “the evidence,” they’re ignoring the recording of Zimmerman calling Martin a suspect, asshole and either punk or coon. That’s evidence that goes to context and Zimmerman’s frame of mind, and it’s an absolutely rock solid, undisputed fact that he said those things prior to ever meeting or talking to Martin face to face.

How credulous do you have to be to believe he’s not the one who caused shit to go sour?

That’s how white privilege works I guess.

388 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:01:22pm

re: #385 Batman

I don’t get people decrying the racism of the right while saying the verdict was just. The self-defense argument is built on pure racism — that a black teenager should know to submit to any white adult that accosts them. Trayvon Martin should have just known that his blackness would intimidate Zimmerman and give him legal justification to shoot him.

I reiterate what I said when this was first in the news: if I was the teenager Zimmerman accosted, he would have been lucky if the worst that happened to him was he kissed pavement.

And he would’ve shot you and been acquitted. Unless you’re white.

389 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:01:47pm

re: #360 theye1

If you’re going to accuse me of being a racist, than accuse me of it. [someone else] So instead of debating with the evidence presented, you proceed with personal attacks.

Fine.

You’re a racist.

Boom. Done.

(Personal attack and accusation in one go! DOUBLE POINTS!)

390 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:02:15pm

re: #382 chadu

I think you’re fine, I know that you don’t really consider it a negative thing, but it still gave that impression.

Say three hail Hitchens and four Our Dennetts.

391 CMReaK  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:03:09pm

re: #26 spiderx

If Martin had been White Zimmerman would never have even noticed him, he wouldn’t have called 911, and he wouldn’t have gotten out of his car.

392 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:03:23pm

re: #363 Vicious Babushka

I’ll look at it tomorrow, I’m too pissed off right now. :(

I dig, in same mode myself.

393 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:03:33pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Half his size? I don’t think that’s accurate. Martin was 17 and he was not small. Many of the photos of him that have been used are from when he was 12 or 13, and don’t reflect his size at the time of his death.

5’11” & 158 lbs. He wasn’t very big DF.

394 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:04:41pm

re: #393 William Barnett-Lewis

5’11” & 158 lbs. He wasn’t very big DF.

He’ll focus on anything else he can to avoid admitting it was Zimmerman who fucked up and it wasn’t self-defense.

395 Tigger2  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:05:12pm

re: #372 jaunte

Yup.

[Embedded content]

That Mark person is the type of person that makes me be embarrassed to be white sometimes.

396 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:05:49pm
397 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:06:40pm

Alright. I’m going to bed. A friend of mine who clerks for a federal judge emailed me, and said the most likely point of entry for the DOJ was the defense releasing stuff before the trial, affecting the jury pool. But it’s not that hopeful.

398 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:07:05pm

I won’t go on Twitter now, I’m sure it will make my blood boil.

399 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:07:13pm

re: #389 chadu

Fine.

You’re a racist.

Boom. Done.

(Personal attack and accusation in one go! DOUBLE POINTS!)

LOL.

Like I said earlier, ol’ theEye1 sounds like he’s got his white privilege on. To pretend that the case would have gone the same way if Martin were Caucasian is to willfully ignore how the US courts are skewed in favor of whites.

Case in point: if Martin were white, they would have left his body to rot in the morgue for 3 days. They’d have had his ID discovered in a New York minute.

400 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:07:51pm

re: #385 Batman

I don’t get people decrying the racism of the right while saying the verdict was just. The self-defense argument is built on pure racism — that a black teenager should know to submit to any white adult that accosts them. Trayvon Martin should have just known that his blackness would intimidate Zimmerman and give him legal justification to shoot him.

I reiterate what I said when this was first in the news: if I was the teenager Zimmerman accosted, he would have been lucky if the worst that happened to him was he kissed pavement.

Frankly, I would have run away.

401 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:08:24pm

re: #400 Dark_Falcon

Frankly, I would have run away.

He tried. At first.

402 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:08:37pm

re: #390 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think you’re fine, I know that you don’t really consider it a negative thing, but it still gave that impression.

Say three hail Hitchens and four Our Dennetts.

How about two OMG Orwells and three Besters, with a Bradbury or Asimov thrown in there?

/haggling my soul

;)

403 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:08:50pm

I know USA isn’t perfect, but you all have to take this in context, I don’t think there is another country in the world where a poor black youth can have so much potential in their lives. It’s the closest thing to a meritocracy in the world. Don’t beat yourselves up too hard. On the edge of every Jerusalem there is a Golgotha.

404 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:08:54pm

re: #396 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yeah it can’t be that we’re upset that a family isn’t getting any justice for losing their loved one and you trashing him in a court. Goddamnit. I accept the verdict but I’m sincerely inclined to believe that had the races of the defendant and victim been reversed, there would have been some kind of conviction. I can’t prove that but it’s how I feel.

405 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:09:06pm

I hope the six jurors pretend they’re still in sequestration for the next several weeks. Internet, TV, talking to friends…all of that isn’t going to be very pleasant for them I fear.

406 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:09:10pm

re: #393 William Barnett-Lewis

5’11” & 158 lbs. He wasn’t very big DF.

No, but he wasn’t notably smaller than Zimmerman, which is all I was saying.

407 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:09:26pm

re: #400 Dark_Falcon

Frankly, I would have run away.

Trayvon Martin stood his ground. And was legally killed for it. He did absolutely nothing wrong, except for be black and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

408 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:09:37pm

Pretty sure I’m supposed to take the reference to “Culver City” as a veiled threat.

409 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:09:57pm

re: #398 BigPapa

I won’t go on Twitter now, I’m sure it will make my blood boil.

I killed my twitter feed an hour or so ago. Watching the Giants game and having a cocktail.

410 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:10:01pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

No, but he wasn’t notably smaller than Zimmerman, which is all I was saying.

If at least 250 isn’t in Zimmerman’s review mirror, I’d eat my shoe.

411 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:10:31pm

re: #396 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I turned it off after than. Made my blood boil.

412 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:10:46pm

re: #396 jaunte

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

***Really Angry Now***

413 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:10:54pm

re: #408 Charles Johnson

Pretty sure I’m supposed to take the reference to “Culver City” as a veiled threat.

The Stalkers say it all the time. I think they believe they are mocking you.

414 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:11:10pm

re: #410 Batman

If at least 250 isn’t in Zimmerman’s review mirror, I’d eat my shoe.

Looked considerably bigger than 158 in the photos after the incident.

415 Tigger2  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:11:27pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

No, but he wasn’t notably smaller than Zimmerman, which is all I was saying.

If he would have stayed in his truck ( like the police wanted) it wouldn’t have mattered how big either one of them were.

416 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:11:30pm

Press Statement from the Southern Poverty Law Center in Response to Verdict in State of Florida v. George Zimmerman:
splcenter.org

417 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:11:33pm

re: #410 Batman

If at least 250 isn’t in Zimmerman’s review mirror, I’d eat my shoe.

It is now, but he weighed less then.

418 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:11:52pm

re: #403 rosiee

I know USA isn’t perfect, but you all have to take this in context, I don’t think there is another country in the world where a poor black youth can have so much potential in their lives. It’s the closest thing to a meritocracy in the world. Don’t beat yourselves up too hard. On the edge of every Jerusalem there is a Golgotha.

If they survive.

419 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:12:11pm

re: #403 rosiee

I know USA isn’t perfect, but you all have to take this in context, I don’t think there is another country in the world where a poor black youth can have so much potential in their lives. It’s the closest thing to a meritocracy in the world. Don’t beat yourselves up too hard. On the edge of every Jerusalem there is a Golgotha.

Context?

A black kid goes out to a convenience store for a snack and gets gunned down by a racist nitwit, and said racist nitwit gets off scott free?

And you want us to wave the flag and say the Pledge of Allegience because America is a racism-free Xanadu?

How’s that for fucking context?

420 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:12:22pm

re: #414 HappyWarrior

Looked considerably bigger than 158 in the photos after the incident.

The fake ones the wingnuts like or the real ones they dislike?

421 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:13:01pm

re: #420 William Barnett-Lewis

The fake ones the wingnuts like or the real ones they dislike?

I’m talking about Zim. I think Zimmerman was an easy 200 at the time of the attack.

422 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:13:38pm

re: #403 rosiee

I know USA isn’t perfect, but you all have to take this in context, I don’t think there is another country in the world where a poor black youth can have so much potential in their lives. It’s the closest thing to a meritocracy in the world. Don’t beat yourselves up too hard. On the edge of every Jerusalem there is a Golgotha.

Take the rose glasses off.

Living while black is a capital crime in Florida.

423 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:13:59pm

re: #399 Mattand

LOL.

Tired of race-baiters daring people to call them racists.

Done now.

And I appreciate the LOLs!

424 PT Barnum  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:14:30pm

Does Trayvon Martin’s family have even the opportunity to sue Zimmerman for wrongful death? Lower burden of proof and they could absolutely make his life hell.

At the very least there needs to be a campaign to boycott Florida until they change the law. We were planning on visiting Orlando and Disney World, but I just told Mrs. Barnum, that Disney Land is the only option at this point if we’re going to go to a Disney property.

425 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:14:47pm
426 122 Year Old Obama  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:16:01pm

The worst part is the people celebrating this. Who the fuck does that?

427 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:16:15pm

re: #425 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Fuck him.

428 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:16:54pm

re: #396 jaunte
I’m not angry so much as I’m disgusted and depressed.

429 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:17:00pm

re: #403 rosiee

I know USA isn’t perfect, but you all have to take this in context, I don’t think there is another country in the world where a poor black youth can have so much potential in their lives. It’s the closest thing to a meritocracy in the world. Don’t beat yourselves up too hard. On the edge of every Jerusalem there is a Golgotha.

No.

This is not a cost/benefit equation.

430 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:17:08pm

re: #424 PT Barnum

Does Trayvon Martin’s family have even the opportunity to sue Zimmerman for wrongful death? Lower burden of proof and they could absolutely make his life hell.

At the very least there needs to be a campaign to boycott Florida until they change the law. We were planning on visiting Orlando and Disney World, but I just told Mrs. Barnum, that Disney Land is the only option at this point if we’re going to go to a Disney property.

I don’t know about Florida. Knew that the Goldmans did that in the Simpson case but that was of course a California case so obviously Florida’s laws will differ. I feel for his family. It’s one thing that they had to see their loved one dragged through the mud for doing what many kids do at that age (smoke pot) and made out by various people in the media to be a thug for as inane reasons as wearing a hoody and now they see the guy who they know killed their son acquitted and worse people joyful about it.

431 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:17:16pm

re: #421 HappyWarrior

I’m talking about Zim. I think Zimmerman was an easy 200 at the time of the attack.

187. 230 at the trial.

432 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:17:21pm

re: #426 122 Year Old Obama

The worst part is the people celebrating this. Who the fuck does that?

The half of this country that are unreconstructed racists.

433 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:17:27pm

re: #424 PT Barnum

Does Trayvon Martin’s family have even the opportunity to sue Zimmerman for wrongful death? Lower burden of proof and they could absolutely make his life hell.

At the very least there needs to be a campaign to boycott Florida until they change the law. We were planning on visiting Orlando and Disney World, but I just told Mrs. Barnum, that Disney Land is the only option at this point if we’re going to go to a Disney property.

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

No, not really. If Trayvon Martin’s family were to go through with a lawsuit, Zimmerman could now claim that Martin was committing a forcible felony by attacking him. And in Florida, if that defense holds up the law provides tht the plaintiff has to pay not only the defendant’s legal fees but also any other costs the defendant incurred in fighting the suit.

I also got two downdings for this post that I don’t really understand. All I was doing was explaining the law as best as I understood it in reply to a question.

434 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:17:45pm

re: #409 darthstar

I killed my twitter feed an hour or so ago. Watching the Giants game and having a cocktail.

Yeah I’m going to go ice skating with a bunch of 10 year olds and finish the night off at Morimoto with a fancy cocktail. And try to forget for a few hours.

435 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:18:47pm

re: #426 122 Year Old Obama

The worst part is the people celebrating this. Who the fuck does that?

That’s what disgusts me the most too. People are actually gleeful that he’s getting off with zero punishment. He killed a human being. An unarmed human being. And people think it’s justice that he got off? Agh.

436 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:19:03pm

re: #428 darthstar

I’m not angry so much as I’m disgusted and depressed.

THIS. SO MUCH.

I’m not angry. I’m heartbroken. A young man’s life was snuffed out by a vigilante and his death was invalidated by a jury. It’s tragic.

437 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:19:17pm

re: #433 Dark_Falcon

I also got two downdings for this post that I don’t really understand. All i was doing was explaining the law as best as I understood it in reply to a question.

Do you know this about FL law or are you just speculating?
source?

438 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:19:19pm

re: #431 chadu

187. 230 at the trial.

Ah 30 pound difference between him and Treyvon then.

439 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:19:32pm

re: #429 The Ghost of a Flea

No.

This is not a cost/benefit equation.

Okay, went back to Twitter to post this:

440 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:20:20pm

re: #426 122 Year Old Obama

4chan /pol/

441 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:20:55pm
442 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:21:03pm

re: #436 Lidane

THIS. SO MUCH.

I’m not angry. I’m heartbroken. A young man’s life was snuffed out by a vigilante and his death was invalidated by a jury. It’s tragic.

Also about what it says for our future…Make sure: No witness, victim dead, claim self defense…get away with murder.

443 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:21:23pm

re: #437 blueraven

Do you know this about FL law or are you just speculating?
source?

This is the relevant statute:

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.
776.085 Defense to civil action for damages; party convicted of forcible or attempted forcible felony.—
(1) It shall be a defense to any action for damages for personal injury or wrongful death, or for injury to property, that such action arose from injury sustained by a participant during the commission or attempted commission of a forcible felony. The defense authorized by this section shall be established by evidence that the participant has been convicted of such forcible felony or attempted forcible felony, or by proof of the commission of such crime or attempted crime by a preponderance of the evidence.
(2) For the purposes of this section, the term “forcible felony” shall have the same meaning as in s. 776.08.
(3) Any civil action in which the defense recognized by this section is raised shall be stayed by the court on the motion of the civil defendant during the pendency of any criminal action which forms the basis for the defense, unless the court finds that a conviction in the criminal action would not form a valid defense under this section.
(4) In any civil action where a party prevails based on the defense created by this section:
(a) The losing party, if convicted of and incarcerated for the crime or attempted crime, shall, as determined by the court, lose any privileges provided by the correctional facility, including, but not limited to:
1. Canteen purchases;
2. Telephone access;
3. Outdoor exercise;
4. Use of the library; and
5. Visitation.
(b) The court shall award a reasonable attorney’s fee to be paid to the prevailing party in equal amounts by the losing party and the losing party’s attorney; however, the losing party’s attorney is not personally responsible if he or she has acted in good faith, based on the representations of his or her client. If the losing party is incarcerated for the crime or attempted crime and has insufficient assets to cover payment of the costs of the action and the award of fees pursuant to this paragraph, the party shall, as determined by the court, be required to pay by deduction from any payments the prisoner receives while incarcerated.
(c) If the losing party is incarcerated for the crime or attempted crime, the court shall issue a written order containing its findings and ruling pursuant to paragraphs (a) and (b) and shall direct that a certified copy be forwarded to the appropriate correctional institution or facility.

444 twisty  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:21:48pm

re: #440 rosiee

I can only imagine what’s going on on /pol/ right now

445 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:22:29pm

re: #441 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Yeah he should talk to his son or brother about that. He knows a lot about that. I don’t want or wish Zimmerman dead but damn it if doesn’t bother me that he gets off with no punishment for ending a life and there are people in prison for possessing marijuana.

446 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:22:45pm

re: #435 HappyWarrior

That’s what disgusts me the most too. People are actually gleeful that he’s getting off with zero punishment. He killed a human being. An unarmed human being. And people think it’s justice that he got off? Agh.

Fucking pathetic.

(Jeez, I’m swearing a lot tonight. Sorry.)

Zimmerman should have gotten manslaughter. Given that it’s FL, I’d expect a weak sentence.

But acquitted?

FUCKING PATHETIC.

447 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:23:57pm

re: #446 chadu

Fucking pathetic.

(Jeez, I’m swearing a lot tonight. Sorry.)

Zimmerman should have gotten manslaughter. Given that it’s FL, I’d expect a weak sentence.

But acquitted?

FUCKING PATHETIC.

Don’t be. I had to come home from a baseball game to hear my grandmother almost joyful about the verdict. I love her but her prejudice sickens me.

448 Batman  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:23:57pm

Anyone remember this? cbsnews.com

I wonder what the difference between these two cases is.

449 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:24:13pm

re: #440 rosiee

4chan /pol/

Right, because nothing says “rational clarity” like 4chan.

Jesus, dude, are you high or something? I’m beginning to see why your karma count is -99.

450 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:25:01pm

re: #439 darthstar

Okay, went back to Twitter to post this:

[Embedded content]

Meet new post racial America. Same as old racial America.

451 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:25:05pm

re: #435 HappyWarrior

That’s what disgusts me the most too. People are actually gleeful that he’s getting off with zero punishment. He killed a human being. An unarmed human being. And people think it’s justice that he got off? Agh.

The RW was successful in dehumanizing Trayvon.

452 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:25:07pm

Someone’s probably going to shoot Zimmerman.

453 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:26:01pm

re: #451 Stanley Sea

The RW was successful in dehumanizing Trayvon.

When is dehumanizing young black men, not successful?

454 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:26:53pm
455 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:27:58pm

re: #448 Batman

Anyone remember this? cbsnews.com

I wonder what the difference between these two cases is.

Gender? No, that’s not it.

456 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:28:12pm

re: #453 moderatelyradicalliberal

When is dehumanizing young black men, not successful?

I know.

457 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:28:27pm

re: #451 Stanley Sea

The RW was successful in dehumanizing Trayvon.

That’s the most tragic part of the case if you ask me. A kid who got in trouble in school a few times was made out to be a thug who needed killing. No, Treyvon Martin wasn’t a saint but he was still someone’s son. He was still a kid with dreams and who cared enough for his younger brother to get him skittles at the convenience store. Honestly, I was amazed that the judge allowed Martin’s past incidents with marijuana to be admissible but Zimmerman’s actual past of violence which included an arrest was not.

458 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:28:49pm

re: #454 Lidane

[Embedded content]

NRA Jesus doesn’t like black people either.

459 Flavia  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:28:49pm

re: #379 Shvaughn

I’m changing my icon to black in solidarity with Trayvon’s supporters and my black friends on the net.

I did something similar. I am too upset to talk about this much. Can’t be too coherent.

460 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:29:34pm

re: #452 rosiee

Someone’s probably going to shoot Zimmerman.

STFU

461 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:30:17pm
462 Shvaughn  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:30:58pm

SPLC statement:

The following statement was issued by Richard Cohen, President and CEO of the Southern Poverty Law Center, following the verdict in State of Florida v. George Zimmerman:

“‘They always get away.’ These were the words George Zimmerman uttered as he followed and later shot Trayvon Martin — words that reflected his belief that Trayvon was one of “them,” the kind of person about to get away with something. How ironic these words sound now in light of the jury verdict acquitting Zimmerman.

Trayvon is dead, and Zimmerman is free.

Can we respect the jury verdict and still conclude that Zimmerman got away with killing Trayvon? I think so, even if we buy Zimmerman’s story that Trayvon attacked him at some point. After all, who was responsible for initiating the tragic chain of events? Who was following whom? Who was carrying a gun? Who ignored the police urging that he stay in his car? Who thought that the other was one of ‘them,’ someone about to get a away with something?

The jury has spoken, and we can respect its conclusion that the state did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But we cannot fail to speak out about the tragedy that occurred in Sanford, Florida, on the night of February 26, 2012.

Was race at the heart of it?

Ask yourself this question: If Zimmerman had seen a white youth walking in the rain that evening, would he have seen him as one of ‘them,’ someone about to get away with something?
We’ll never really know.

Racial bias reverberates in our society like the primordial Big Bang. Some years ago, Rev. Jesse Jackson made the point in a dramatic way when he acknowledged that he feels a sense of relief when the footsteps he hears behind him in the dead of night turn out to belong to white feet. Social scientists who study our hidden biases make the same point in a more sober way with statistics that demonstrate that we are more likely to associate black people with negative words and imagery than we are white people. It’s an association that devalues the humanity of black people — particularly black youth like Trayvon Martin.

George Zimmerman probably saw race the night of February 26, 2012, like too many others would have. Had he not, Trayvon probably would be alive today.

The jury has spoken. Now, we must speak out against the systemic racism that still infects our society and distorts our perception of the world. And we must do something about it.”

463 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:31:17pm

re: #447 HappyWarrior

Fortunately, I have no love for my dad, so when he did the same, he fit into a pre-conceived notion of how I thought he would act.

464 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:31:39pm

re: #461 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

The system is not designed to protect black people period.

465 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:32:48pm

re: #463 ProTARDISLiberal

Fortunately, I have no love for my dad, so when he did the same, he fit into a pre-conceived notion of how I thought he would act.

It’s tough knowing that someone who shaped your mindset is a bigot. As I said, love her to death and she has helped me and my family out a lot but her intolerance is just something that becomes harder to overcome as I get older.

466 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:33:15pm

Twitter is getting to sound like /pol/


or


or

467 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:33:27pm

re: #464 moderatelyradicalliberal

The system is not designed to protect black people period.

Don’t understand why the NRA isn’t advertising all over BET. Well, maybe I do…

468 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:34:05pm

re: #466 ReamWorks SKG

That’s like the anti-/pol/

469 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:34:11pm

re: #466 ReamWorks SKG

Twitter is getting to sound like /pol/

[Embedded content]

Stupidity will be the death of us all. I wish I could be an ex-pat sometimes.

470 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:34:59pm

re: #466 ReamWorks SKG

actually more like reddit than /pol/ tbh.

471 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:35:18pm

re: #467 Decatur Deb

Don’t understand why the NRA isn’t advertising all over BET. Well, maybe I do…

I wonder what would happen if the rate of black people buying guns just skyrocketed? Maybe that’s the way to get rid of these insane gun laws. If black people start using them maybe rightwingers won’t like them anymore?

472 twisty  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:35:54pm

re: #468 rosiee
re: #470 rosiee

/pol/ does nothing but get paranoid over Jews dude

473 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:36:33pm

re: #466 ReamWorks SKG

lol Haroon is from Pakistan.

474 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:36:38pm

There are thousands of posts like this. It’s not just a few. And the idiots keep retweeting.

475 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:36:42pm

re: #471 moderatelyradicalliberal

I wonder what would happen if the rate of black people buying guns just skyrocketed? Maybe that’s the way to get rid of these insane gun laws. If black people start using them maybe rightwingers won’t like them anymore?

Remington could market a 12-gauge semi-auto, call it the “Huey”. Profit !!!

476 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:36:46pm

cbsnews.com
And this is why I’m jaded. She gets 20 years for firing warning shots and Zimmerman gets off for killing someone. I know the cases aren’t mirrors of each other but goddamn man.

477 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:36:55pm

re: #472 twisty

To them, Zimmerman is a hero.

478 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:37:01pm
479 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:37:22pm

Next Case in Florida

480 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:37:50pm

re: #447 HappyWarrior

Don’t be. I had to come home from a baseball game to hear my grandmother almost joyful about the verdict. I love her but her prejudice sickens me.

re: #463 ProTARDISLiberal

Fortunately, I have no love for my dad, so when he did the same, he fit into a pre-conceived notion of how I thought he would act.

re: #465 HappyWarrior

It’s tough knowing that someone who shaped your mindset is a bigot. As I said, love her to death and she has helped me and my family out a lot but her intolerance is just something that becomes harder to overcome as I get older.

Ugh. Preaching to the choir. I get a headache thinking about how many of my relatives and their kids are celebrating this verdict.

481 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:38:08pm

Damn you Bob Dylan, no one would be blaming the Jews if it wasn’t for you.

482 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:38:11pm

re: #478 Lidane

[Embedded content]

The worst part of those who almost sound joyful about the thought of violence happening since they think it will justify their preconceived notions about black people.

483 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:38:17pm

re: #465 HappyWarrior

Heh, he didn’t shape me.

My friends (almost all female) I had in Middle and High School did, along with my Grandfather, and Tim Russert’s book, Wisdom of our Fathers.

Want to know why I am so off on taste, and more willing to not repress what I feel. They are why. And in return, I am a feminist, as I have seen women are just as good as men. Hell, from my experience, they were nicer.

484 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:38:58pm

re: #483 ProTARDISLiberal

Heh, he didn’t shape me.

My friends (almost all female) I had in Middle and High School did, along with my Grandfather, and Tim Russert’s book, Wisdom of our Fathers.

Want to know why I am so off on taste, and more willing to not repress what I feel. They are why. And in return, I am a feminist, as I have seen women are just as good as men. Hell, from my experience, they were nicer.

Well I was talking about my grandmother and myself. But yeah I see.

485 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:40:10pm

I really hope there are no riots anywhere. Just peaceful demonstrations. The Breitbarts are really hoping for trouble and that’s sickening….

486 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:40:24pm

re: #480 Mattand

Ugh. Preaching to the choir. I get a headache thinking about how many of my relatives and their kids are celebrating this verdict.

It sucks. We don’t get to choose our relatives of course but damn.

487 jaunte  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:42:15pm
488 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:42:18pm

re: #485 ReamWorks SKG

I really hope there are no riots anywhere. Just peaceful demonstrations. The Breitbarts are really hoping for trouble and that’s sickening….

The RWNJs are win-win on that. It there are riots, they are vindicated. if not, the urban yoots were frightened off by their superior firepower and tactical acumen.

489 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:42:36pm

re: #448 Batman

Anyone remember this? cbsnews.com

I wonder what the difference between these two cases is.

We actually discussed that case two threads back. The first post about it was at #35 and my reply is at #43. Here’s three of my posts summing up what I had to say, then one more from Kragar:

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

I read about that case and I need to correct your recounting of it: It was not that the jury did not see the woman’s case as self-defense, the judge presiding over the trial did not allow the woman to claim self defense. He ruled that when she went back into the house she voluntarily reentered the zone of danger, which negated any claim of self-defense. Thus the jury literally could not return a verdict of self defense, and given the evidence that left them with no choice but to vote for conviction.

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

The only juror to speak about the verdict clearly considered that course inappropriate, that person’s reply largely being “We were given valid, legal orders and though we did not like them we obeyed them.” And there is a case to be made for that view, that case being that deciding what the law meant was the job of the judge and the proper avenue for undoing a bad decision on the judge’s part is an appeal.

I am not saying I agree either with that reasoning or that of the judge; I am simply stating their reasoning and saying how that reasoning can be defended.

re: #63 Dark_Falcon

I would not be too sure of that. It’s worth noting she was not convicted of aggravated assault against her husband; She was convicted because she fired a warning shot into a wall and her children were on the other side of that wall. That case really was not about race, it was about specifics in self-defense law and about the fact that firing warning shots is a bad idea.

re: #87 Kragar

Years ago, I had a firearms safety course run by a local police department. They had a training video where they showed why you never fire warning shots. They showed a cop chasing an armed suspect and firing 2 shots into the air as a warning. They then cut to a little old lady dropping mail into a mailbox when her letter got hit out of her hands. For the second round, they had a kid in his drive way fixing his bike get hit in front of his mom.

You do not fire warning shots, ever.

490 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:44:30pm

re: #489 Dark_Falcon

We actually discussed that case two threads back. The first post about it was at #35 and my reply is at #43. Here’s three of my posts summing up what I had to say, then one more from Kragar:

No you do not fire warning shots. You make sure that you kill the person and that they can’t tell their side of the story. Then you can claim self defense and not go to jail. If you are white or the dead person is black.

No snark.

491 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:45:16pm
492 theye1  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:45:37pm

re: #389 chadu

Have I said anything at all racist? I honestly want to know

493 jhrhv  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:46:19pm

I’ve loved Florida since the first time I went there. I don’t know if I’ll ever go back now.

494 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:48:46pm

re: #491 Lidane


I wonder the same thing about Coulter.

495 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:49:22pm

re: #493 jhrhv

I’ve loved Florida since the first time I went there. I don’t know if I’ll ever go back now.

Make sure Disney knows that. Their industry is a big chunk of the Florida economy, and particularly vulnerable.

496 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:49:51pm

re: #494 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

[Embedded content]


I wonder the same thing about Coulter.

I wonder that about many of them. How does one become so full of hate. I guess hate’s like a narcotic. People need it or else they feel they can’t function.

497 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:51:20pm

re: #496 HappyWarrior

I wonder that about many of them. How does one become so full of hate. I guess hate’s like a narcotic. People need it or else they feel they can’t function.

Their hate is a profitable shtick—it’s like saying Henny Youngman hated his wife.

498 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:51:27pm

re: #465 HappyWarrior

Hear you, mang.

Suffering same with my Dad.

499 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:53:08pm
500 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:56:57pm

re: #474 ReamWorks SKG

Fucking racist assholes.

I’ve been trying to figure out why people hate TEH JUICE, and all I can come up with is:
* Mistakenly think they were responsible for crucifying that Yeshua dude.
* Envious over the money they made on normal loans (when usury was considered a sin).
* Weirdo conspiracy theories that have no fricking contact with reality.

501 Ming  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:59:35pm

re: #384 Major Tom

The real lesson: Next time just remember to scrape a little skin under the corpse’s finger nails and it never makes it to trial.

It also helps when the police don’t take enough photos, or collect much evidence. Or bother to arrest the guy.

502 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:00:20pm

re: #500 chadu

Fucking racist assholes.

I’ve been trying to figure out why people hate TEH JUICE, and all I can come up with is:
* Mistakenly think they were responsible for crucifying that Yeshua dude.
* Envious over the money they made on normal loans (when usury was considered a sin).
* Weirdo conspiracy theories that have no fricking contact with reality.

People always need a scapegoat. That’s the story of racism anywhere and anytime. Want to justify lynching and castrating black men? Claim that black men rape white women even though it was white slave owners raping women slaves and destroying slave families. Want to rationalize tough economic times and losing WWI? Blame the Jews. And it goes on and on. I remember when I took US history in college, my professor said that Bacon’s Rebellion, an event that I think few Americans remember from history class was one of the first important events in early US history because it showed how the powers to be will find a scapegoat to justify discriminating against the other.

503 bubba zanetti  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:02:30pm

re: #474 ReamWorks SKG

I don’t get it. A YouTube video of Billie Holliday’s ‘Strange Fruit’ is doing the rounds, and the comments are being overloaded by some weirdo who’s main point is that “Blacks sold other blacks to teh Juice who then sold them to white people, and it’s not fair that we blame the last third of the chain when it’s white people that freed the slaves. Did I mention teh Juice?”

Yes, I know. Don’t read the comments.

504 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:04:16pm

re: #471 moderatelyradicalliberal

I wonder what would happen if the rate of black people buying guns just skyrocketed? Maybe that’s the way to get rid of these insane gun laws. If black people start using them maybe rightwingers won’t like them anymore?

For slightly less than two centuries the southern half of this country was a terror state where any action viewed as rebellious resulted in disproportionate retaliation against blacks, individually and collectively.

Historically, the issue of armed black people has been solved by gangs of armed white people “protecting their community” with a lynch mob.

The current racist wingnuts…well, they view blacks as inherently criminal, and thus as illegal firearms carriers. Indeed, their entire coding of criminality is “black man with gun.” An actual increase in legal gun ownership among African Americans isn’t going to change their minds, since they’re already carrying gun to protect themselves against imaginary black criminals.

505 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:04:34pm

re: #503 bubba zanetti

I don’t get it. A YouTube video of Billie Holliday’s ‘Strange Fruit’ is doing the rounds, and the comments are being overloaded by some weirdo who’s main point is that “Blacks sold other blacks to teh Juice who then sold them to white people, and it’s not fair that we blame the last third of the chain when it’s white people that freed the slaves. Did I mention teh Juice?”

Yes, I know. Don’t read the comments.

Imagine no race, no religion. I think I’m starting to get Imagine now.

506 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:05:30pm

re: #492 theye1

Have I said anything at all racist? I honestly want to know

Dude, it’s late for me, and I’m slightly drunk. I don’t want to go on a hunt for stuff.

You’re not a racist.

I was frustrated by the resurrection of the “just call me a racist, then” hand. So, I called.

I apologize for that.

But, for what it’s worth, you’re still as insightful as a ditchwater stump.

Toodles!

507 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:05:44pm

re: #502 HappyWarrior

People always need a scapegoat. That’s the story of racism anywhere and anytime. Want to justify lynching and castrating black men? Claim that black men rape white women even though it was white slave owners raping women slaves and destroying slave families. Want to rationalize tough economic times and losing WWI? Blame the Jews. And it goes on and on. I remember when I took US history in college, my professor said that Bacon’s Rebellion, an event that I think few Americans remember from history class was one of the first important events in early US history because it showed how the powers to be will find a scapegoat to justify discriminating against the other.

Though it must also be noted that Bacon and his followers favored the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans from Virginia. Both sides of that affair acted in large part out of bigotry.

508 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:06:54pm

re: #262 Mattand

Oh, for fuck’s sake. The only “evidence” that Martin attacked Zimmerman is the word of the guy who stalked Martin and murdered him.

Basically the lesson here is that if you can isolate a black kid and murder him with no witnesses, the average American jury will let you off.

You know as well as I do that the prosecution has to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt, and that self-defense is a valid defense for a manslaughter charge just as much as for a murder charge.

I didn’t see what happened and neither did anyone else here. But from the evidence in court we know there was clearly a fight. The only witness says that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Zimmerman had injuries consistent with being punched in the face and having his head pushed into the concrete repeatedly, while Martin had no injuries other than the fatal gunshot wound and some scrapes to his knuckles consistent with punching someone. Moreover the jury heard testimony that Zimmerman was a wimp and couldn’t fight - making it implausible that he would start a punching match with a healthy and fit 17 year old.

Did you read the instructions to the jury? They said that if there were reasonable doubt about whether or not Zimmerman acted in self-defense, they should find him not guilty — (meaning, as far as I can see, that they had to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that he did NOT act in self defense). That applies to both murder and manslaughter.

You may not like it, and you can downding it all you want, but I don’t see how in the face of what the jury heard as evidence that they could come up with a guilty verdict without violating their obligation to follow the law and the instructions to the jury based on the law.

509 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:09:29pm

re: #502 HappyWarrior

I remember when I took US history in college, my professor said that Bacon’s Rebellion, an event that I think few Americans remember from history class was one of the first important events in early US history because it showed how the powers to be will find a scapegoat to justify discriminating against the other.

Dude, most people never hear of Bacon’s Rebellion.

I only learned of it in the last year reading 1676, the End of American Independence.

510 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:09:30pm

re: #507 Dark_Falcon

Though it must also be noted that Bacon and his followers favored the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans from Virginia. Both sides of that affair acted in large part out of bigotry.

Of course. The point the professor was trying to make though was about scapegoating. Scapegoating is how and why we had lynchings well into last century. It’s why we incarcerated thousands of loyal and proud Japanese-Americans during WWII. It’s why Muslim-Americans get attacked following 9/11 and the Boston Marathon bombings. We’re always looking for a scapegoat and by we I mean society as a whole since we’ve invented stupid diversionary crap like religion and race to give us the excuse to say we’re better than others because we’re this and they’re that.

511 bubba zanetti  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:10:28pm
512 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:10:34pm

re: #503 bubba zanetti

And this commenter is missing the FUCKING LYNCHINGS?

513 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:10:40pm

re: #509 chadu

Dude, most people never hear of Bacon’s Rebellion.

I only learned of it in the last year reading 1676, the End of American Independence.

I probably wouldn’t know it if I didn’t grow up in Virginia. That’s me. Remembering something we spent 15 minutes in Virginia history back in ‘97.

514 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:11:11pm

re: #511 bubba zanetti

[Embedded content]

Please proceed riot wet dreamers.

515 bubba zanetti  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:11:56pm

re: #512 chadu

Yes, it’s that video. I supposed “I don’t get it” was an understatement on my part.

516 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:12:53pm

re: #505 HappyWarrior

Imagine no race, no religion. I think I’m starting to get Imagine now.

“Was it a millionaire who said ‘Imagine no possessions’?”

Elvis Costello, The Other Side of Summer

517 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:14:53pm

re: #510 HappyWarrior

I object to calling religion “stupid diversionary crap”.


It’s OK to call race “stupid diversionary crap”, though.

518 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:15:05pm

re: #516 chadu

“Was it a millionaire who said ‘Imagine no possessions’?”

Elvis Costello, The Other Side of Summer

Ha, yeah heh that’s true. Man am I jaded.

519 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:16:11pm

re: #516 chadu

“Was it a millionaire who said ‘Imagine no possessions’?”

Elvis Costello, The Other Side of Summer

Well played.

520 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:16:23pm

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

I object to calling religion “stupid diversionary crap”.

It’s OK to call race “stupid diversionary crap”, though.

Fair enough, but I am talking about using religion as a means of separating people stupid diversionary crap. Saying I’m a Christian, that makes me better than you because you’re a Muslim or likewise saying I’m a nonbeliever, that makes me better than you because you are. That’s what I mean when I call religion stupid diversionary crap.

521 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:17:22pm

re: #520 HappyWarrior

Fair enough, but I am talking about using religion as a means of separating people stupid diversionary crap. Saying I’m a Christian, that makes me better than you because you’re a Muslim or likewise saying I’m a nonbeliever, that makes me better than you because you are. That’s what I mean when I call religion stupid diversionary crap.

Clarification noted and accepted.

522 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:18:16pm

re: #521 Dark_Falcon

Clarification noted and accepted.

Thanks. Should have clarified that better. I am not anti religion. Doesn’t work for me but whatever, I just hate seeing it used as a mechanism to justify prejudice, murder, and a bunch of other crap.

523 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:18:20pm

re: #508 krypto

The only witness says that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

This is a lie. There were several eye witnesses. One testified that they saw Zimmerman on top, one (John Good) testified that Martin was on top. Another says she only saw “a person” and a fourth testified that Zimmerman’s demeanor afterwords seemed cool and matter of fact, unemotional.

524 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:19:29pm

Was going to watch Sharknado tonight, but instead got sucked into the Giants game, where Lincecum threw a no-hitter (146 pitches…he wasn’t letting anyone take him out of the game). Good times.

525 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:21:16pm

I was surprised also to see that something about the Florida “stand your ground” law was included in the instructions to the jury.

I thought that applied only to defending a home in Florida against an intruder, but apparently it applies to a person not having to retreat if he is in a place where he is entitled to be (the approximate wording I recall from the instructions).

That might also have played a role in the jury decision.

526 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:22:34pm

Sorry, but my narcolepsy is too much for me now. I have to go to bed.

527 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:24:23pm

re: #523 goddamnedfrank

It also came out during the questioning of the creator of the VR reenactment that the defense intentionally and unlawfully broke John Good’s sequestration. John Good also directly contradicted his own sworn deposition when he claimed to identify Zimmerman’s voice in court. Good was also a major financial supporter of Zimmerman’s, easily the least impartial of all the eye witnesses who took the stand.

528 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:26:04pm

re: #511 bubba zanetti

[Embedded content]

There’s that violence the right was talking about. I wonder of the attacker will claim self defense?

529 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:26:22pm

re: #525 krypto

Why did you lie about there being only one eye witness? Good didn’t even claim to witness the shot being fired, he went back into his home to dial 911. How do you feel about Good breaking sequestration and supporting Zimmerman financially?

530 darthstar  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:27:42pm

re: #526 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, but my narcolepsy is too much for me now. I have to go to bed.

It’s 12:30 in Chicago. That’s not narcolepsy…it’s bed time.

532 chadu  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:31:05pm

It’s 1:30 am here.

I’mma eat sumfing and go sleeps.

Later, Lizards.

534 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:32:42pm

re: #531 The Ghost of a Flea

George Zimmerman’s brother, Robert, appeared on CNN this evening to discuss with Piers Morgan what the Zimmerman family has gone through after George Zimmerman killed (but did not murder) 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

“I want to know if it’s true, and I don’t know if it’s true, that Trayvon Martin was looking to procure firearms, or growing marijuana, or looking to make lean,” he told Piers Morgan and Don Lemon.

He had to be guilty of something, right? Just asking questions, right?

I think this is what angers me most about Zimmerman’s side. They want to do everything possible to make Martin out to be some terrible kid and rationalize George Zimmerman killing him anyway possible. I think the verdict wouldn’t bother me so much if they had expressed some sympathy to Martin’s family but no they keep on doing this kind of shit.

535 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:33:49pm

Why the fuck isn’t Zimmerman called a thug? This is a guy who was actually arrested for attacking a police officer? Martin gets in a fight at school and smoked marijuana and he’s a terrible thug? Nice standard you got there assholes.

536 blueraven  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:34:06pm

re: #529 goddamnedfrank

Why did you lie about there being only one eye witness? Good didn’t even claim to witness the shot being fired, he went back into his home to dial 911. How do you feel about Good breaking sequestration and supporting Zimmerman financially?

People that contend the prosecution didn’t prove their case…fair enough, but people defending Zimmerman’s actions and cherry picking the evidence? Fuck em.

537 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:35:40pm

re: #508 krypto

You know as well as I do that the prosecution has to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt, and that self-defense is a valid defense for a manslaughter charge just as much as for a murder charge.

I didn’t see what happened and neither did anyone else here. But from the evidence in court we know there was clearly a fight. The only witness says that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Zimmerman had injuries consistent with being punched in the face and having his head pushed into the concrete repeatedly, while Martin had no injuries other than the fatal gunshot wound and some scrapes to his knuckles consistent with punching someone. Moreover the jury heard testimony that Zimmerman was a wimp and couldn’t fight - making it implausible that he would start a punching match with a healthy and fit 17 year old.

Did you read the instructions to the jury? They said that if there were reasonable doubt about whether or not Zimmerman acted in self-defense, they should find him not guilty — (meaning, as far as I can see, that they had to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that he did NOT act in self defense). That applies to both murder and manslaughter.

You may not like it, and you can downding it all you want, but I don’t see how in the face of what the jury heard as evidence that they could come up with a guilty verdict without violating their obligation to follow the law and the instructions to the jury based on the law.

I generally don’t downding. You’ve got to go fairly racist/bigoted/just out-and-out stupid for me to do that.

Having said that: Zimmerman stalked this kid and killed him, after being warned/advised/asked nicely to let the cops handle it. Quite frankly, the jury are a bunch of fucking morons.

And as far as all of this “Let’s be rational, justice has prevailed based on the evidence” prattle: horseshit. Every goddamned person who’s been bleating this pablum is either white as a fucking polar bear, or is fortunate enough to not be on the receiving end of what passes for justice for minorities in this country.

And I’ll say it again: if you or anyone else thinks this outcome would be the same if Martin were white, you’re delusional to the point of bordering on clueless.

538 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:36:14pm

Seriously, why would somebody who claimed to have followed the trial closely lie about there only being one eye witness? Why would anybody upding, let alone tell such blatant, steaming pile.

Even the most casual followers of the case knows that Good wasn’t the only witness and that his account was directly contradicted by another eye witness to the fight.

Then there’s the very real impartiality / credibility problems Good has, having broken sequestration, directly contradicting his sworn pretrial deposition, and contributing several thousand dollars to Zimmerman’s defense.

539 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:36:34pm

re: #
re: #525 krypto

Why did you lie about there being only one eye witness? Good didn’t even claim to witness the shot being fired, he went back into his home to dial 911. How do you feel about Good breaking sequestration and supporting Zimmerman financially?

Again I get to feel like I am reading a reply on Fox nation — spewing about “lying” because you disagree with some word or other.

I did not spend my days glued to the TV, and it is possible I missed something. I heard only one witness, a neighbor, who actually said he saw the fight itself. There were other “witnesses” but none as far as I recall who saw what that particular neighbor saw

The central point, which I stated correctly, and which you are ignoring to make accusations of “lying,” is that he testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. And then I heard the other facts I listed being presented as testimony.

540 dragonath  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:37:11pm

re: #535 HappyWarrior

Why the fuck isn’t Zimmerman called a thug? This is a guy who was actually arrested for attacking a police officer? Martin gets in a fight at school and smoked marijuana and he’s a terrible thug? Nice standard you got there assholes.

Fuck this gloating. I have evidence the Zimmermans are assholes.

541 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:37:36pm

re: #534 HappyWarrior

I think this is what angers me most about Zimmerman’s side. They want to do everything possible to make Martin out to be some terrible kid and rationalize George Zimmerman killing him anyway possible. I think the verdict wouldn’t bother me so much if they had expressed some sympathy to Martin’s family but no they keep on doing this kind of shit.

Another thing is not just making me insane, but making me worry about the future of this country: the number of people who can develop these long-chain justifications for why victimized people deserve to be victimized. Case in point…it can’t be that Zimmerman screwed up, or that Trayvon’s death was tragic, but that Trayvon Martin deserved to be killed, at that instant.

It’s a callback to the Baddest Old Days of Racism, and it’s freaky that there’s so many people—and so many people with political influence—are getting comfortable with this narrative that Some People Have To Die.

542 Lidane  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:39:07pm

Addiction’s a hell of a thing:

543 Shvaughn  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:39:51pm

re: #541 The Ghost of a Flea

Another thing is not just making me insane, but making me worry about the future of this country: the number of people who can develop these long-chain justifications for why victimized people deserve to be victimized. Case in point…it can’t be that Zimmerman screwed up, or that Trayvon’s death was tragic, but the Trayvon Martin deserved to be killed, at that instant.

It’s a callback to the Baddest Old Days of Racism, and it’s freaky that there’s so many people—and so many people with political influence—are getting comfortable with this narrative that Some People Have To Die.

So very much this.

There are far too many people who aren’t willing to say “this was a tragic mistake by Zimmerman,” far too many people ready to claim him as a hero because he shot “one of them.”

It’s deeply saddening.

544 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:41:39pm

re: #541 The Ghost of a Flea

Another thing is not just making me insane, but making me worry about the future of this country: the number of people who can develop these long-chain justifications for why victimized people deserve to be victimized. Case in point…it can’t be that Zimmerman screwed up, or that Trayvon’s death was tragic, but the Trayvon Martin deserved to be killed, at that instant.

It’s a callback to the Baddest Old Days of Racism, and it’s freaky that there’s so many people—and so many people with political influence—are getting comfortable with this narrative that Some People Have To Die.

I know. I mean it’s one thing to believe that Zimmerman acted in self-defense and should have been acquitted. But OTOH to think Martin needed to die, that wearing a hoodie made him a thug (gee thanks Geraldo you fucking hack), or whatever, then you’re on my shit-list. Someone lost their fucking life. Treyvon’s not coming back. The Martin family will never see him again. And the amount of malice directed at him and by virtue of that his family just makes me ill and my heart ache.

545 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:42:45pm

re: #543 Shvaughn

So very much this.

There are far too many people who aren’t willing to say “this was a tragic mistake by Zimmerman,” far too many people ready to claim him as a hero because he shot “one of them.”

It’s deeply saddening.

Or that his paranoia was somehow justified.

546 Mattand  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:44:25pm

re: #543 Shvaughn

So very much this.

There are far too many people who aren’t willing to say “this was a tragic mistake by Zimmerman,” far too many people ready to claim him as a hero because he shot “one of them.”

It’s deeply saddening.

What’s really fucked up is most of the people celebrating Zimmerman would normally want nothing to do with him, due to him being half-Hispanic.

He’s now their hero because he killed a black kid. One of the most vile examples of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” you’ll ever see in a lifetime.

547 Shvaughn  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:45:40pm

re: #546 Mattand

What’s really fucked up is most of the people celebrating Zimmerman would normally want nothing to do with him, due to him being half-Hispanic.

He’s now their hero because he killed a black kid. One of the most vile examples of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” you’ll ever see in a lifetime.

Yes. It’s repulsive.

If he’d killed a white kid, they’d be screaming to “deport” him.

548 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:45:55pm

re: #546 Mattand

What’s really fucked up is most of the people celebrating Zimmerman would normally want nothing to do with him, due to him being half-Hispanic.

He’s now their hero because he killed a black kid. One of the most vile examples of “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” you’ll ever see in a lifetime.

Hatred of black people is older and deeper than any other. We will always be the primary target.

549 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:46:30pm
550 dragonath  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:47:25pm

If I hear the term “burden of proof” applied one more time…

What a stupid, stupid, law. Justice is blind and deaf.

551 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:51:30pm

re: #11 Lidane

He killed an unarmed black kid. Apparently, that’s not a crime.

It means that in this case, the state could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That had to do with current SYG legislation, the way that the police failed to collect evidence from the scene of the shooting and the vigilatnte atmosphere that is supported by SYG.

I am not at all surprised at the verdict.

552 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:53:08pm

re: #26 spiderx

Zimmerman got away with killing someone. This was a clear case of manslaughter.

If Martin was white there never would have been a not guilty verdict.

If Martin was white, Zmmermann probably would not have pursued and confronted him in the first place.

553 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:53:42pm

re: #538 goddamnedfrank

Seriously, why would somebody who claimed to have followed the trial closely lie about there only being one eye witness? Why would anybody upding, let alone tell such blatant, steaming pile.

Even the most casual followers of the case knows that Good wasn’t the only witness and that his account was directly contradicted by another eye witness to the fight.

Then there’s the very real impartiality / credibility problems Good has, having broken sequestration, directly contradicting his sworn pretrial deposition, and contributing several thousand dollars to Zimmerman’s defense.

More stuff about “lying.” I might equally obnoxiously accuse you of “lying” by falsely claiming I said I watched all of the testimony.

What I did point out about the parts of the testimony I heard was accurate — the neighbor did say that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Remember, the standard the prosecution must meet is proof beyond reasonable doubt, and as far as I can see, the prosecution obviously did not even come close to that.

554 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:53:53pm

re: #549 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

ha

555 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:54:59pm

re: #500 chadu

Fucking racist assholes.

I’ve been trying to figure out why people hate TEH JUICE, and all I can come up with is:
* Mistakenly think they were responsible for crucifying that Yeshua dude.
* Envious over the money they made on normal loans (when usury was considered a sin).
* Weirdo conspiracy theories that have no fricking contact with reality.

On the Jews and Their Lies

On the Jews and Their Lies (German: Von den Jüden und iren Lügen; in modern spelling Von den Juden und ihren Lügen) is a 65,000-word antisemitic treatise written in 1543 by the German Reformation leader Martin Luther.

In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[1] Luther wrote that they are “full of the devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine,”[2] and the synagogue is an “incorrigible whore and an evil slut”.[3]

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are

for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
for their religious writings to be taken away;
for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and “put aside for safekeeping”; and
for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.[4]

556 dragonath  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:56:14pm

re: #555 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I’m guessing Martin Luther wouldn’t think a Mel Brooks movie is funny.

557 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:56:23pm

re: #549 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

So he’s saying that his client should have never even been tried. What a load of shit but he should be glad because you know he’s going to get a cushy book deal out of this and will be on the talk show circuit making millions off this case.

558 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:56:45pm

re: #127 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This is untrue. First of all, Zimmerman has given conflicting accounts, so you’ll have to explain which of his contradictory accounts you mean. Second of all, his wounds were consistent with a single, or very few blows, and inconsistent with his head being slammed on the ground.

It certainly was a case where acquittal wasn’t out of the question, but you’re simply not telling the truth here.

The police did not arrest Zijmerman and missed a chance to collect evidence at the scene of the shooting and directly after the event.

It is that lack of evidence that allowed Zimmermann to walk, as the state was unable to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt without it.

559 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:56:47pm

re: #539 krypto

Again I get to feel like I am reading a reply on Fox nation — spewing about “lying” because you disagree with some word or other.

You said “only eye witness,” after chiding others here about not knowing the evidence presented in court. Either you lied about following the trial or you lied about the number of witnesses. Pretentious asshat speaking from a position of deliberate ignorance or blatant confabulator, those are your choices.

I did not spend my days glued to the TV, and it is possible I missed something. I heard only one witness, a neighbor, who actually said he saw the fight itself. There were other “witnesses” but none as far as I recall who saw what that particular neighbor saw

In no rational world does that make Good the only eye witness. In no rational world does that excuse ignoring his massive credibility / impartiality problems.

The central point, which I stated correctly, and which you are ignoring to make accusations of “lying,” is that he testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. And then I heard the other facts I listed being presented as testimony.

No, you’re just cherry picking and misrepresenting the testimony, while totally pretending the other eye witnesses didn’t exist. Also, there was no “testimony that Zimmerman was a wimp and couldn’t fight.” The testimony was that he expressed an avid interest in learning how to fight but was assessed by others as physically soft and ineffectual. That testimony just as plausibly paints Zimmerman as a sniveling wannabe bully who felt the need for an edge, hence the gun.

560 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:57:56pm

Springboro Tea Partyer Sonny Thomas Unveils Confederate Flag At School Board Meeting

Springboro, Ohio, school district community members are upset after a local tea partyer unfurled a Confederate flag at a school board meeting Thursday night.

Sonny Thomas, who is the president and founder of Springboro Tea Party, according to this website, was at the meeting to speak about summer Constitution classes that the district had been considering offering. The school board cancelled the classes, however, amid allegations that they had religious undertones and were “tea party leaning,” reports local outlet WHIO-TV.

Thomas, who has previously come under fire for racist tweets, gave a speech meant to defend the Constitution classes. According to sources, however, he also made racist comments and endorsed the League of the South, which advocates for an independent Southern republic. At the end of his speech he unfurled a Confederate flag and asked the audience if they were offended.

561 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:59:43pm

re: #560 Amory Blaine

Springboro Tea Partyer Sonny Thomas Unveils Confederate Flag At School Board Meeting

Stupid CSA wannabes. The fact that there are still those who want to fight this war some 148 years after Appamatox is just sad.

562 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:02:10pm

re: #558 Sol Berdinowitz

The police did not arrest Zijmerman and missed a chance to collect evidence at the scene of the shooting and directly after the event.

It is that lack of evidence that allowed Zimmermann to walk, as the state was unable to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt without it.

Everybody should be pissed about this. Everybody.

And yet, many people will not be.

563 b_sharp  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:02:34pm

The SYG law completely destroys the concept of reasonable and appropriate force in defense. Even if not tried under SYG self defense has been tainted by the use of maximum force as a response. However, the worst is not SYG itself, but the attitude that felt SYG was necessary and fully justified.

564 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:02:41pm

re: #553 krypto

More stuff about “lying.” I might equally obnoxiously accuse you of “lying” by falsely claiming I said I watched all of the testimony.

You certainly gave that impression by telling us what the only possible expected outcome was. So you admit you were just talking out your ass, fine.

What I did point out about the parts of the testimony I heard was accurate — the neighbor did say that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. Remember, the standard the prosecution must meet is proof beyond reasonable doubt, and as far as I can see, the prosecution obviously did not even come close to that.

Does it even enter into your mental calculous that the witness you keep citing contributed over $2500 to Zimmerman’s defense, broke sequestration to consult with the VR reenactment creator, and totally opposed his own sworn deposition?

565 dragonath  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:03:56pm

Hell, even George Takei noticed:


Night, reptiles

566 krypto  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:10:47pm

re: #559 goddamnedfrank

In no rational world does that make Good the only eye witness. In no rational world does that excuse ignoring his massive credibility / impartiality problems.

No, you’re just cherry picking and misrepresenting the testimony, while totally pretending the other eye witnesses didn’t exist. Also, there was no “testimony that Zimmerman was a wimp and couldn’t fight.” The testimony was that he expressed an avid interest in learning how to fight but was assessed by others as physically soft and ineffectual. That testimony just as plausibly paints Zimmerman as a sniveling wannabe bully who felt the need for an edge, hence the gun.

Pardon me, but I said none of us were there and none of us saw what happened. How on earth is that “chiding others for not knowing the testimony in court”?

And are you claiming that Good did not say he saw what appeared to be Martin on top of Zimmerman? And are you claiming that Zimmerman did not have injuries consistent with being punched in the face and having his head pushed back into the pavement? And are you claiming that Martin’s visible injuries were other than as I described — the fatal gunshot and scrapes on his knuckles and nothing else?

It sounds like some real cherry picking to ignore all that and to ignore if that makes it impossible for the prosecution to have proved his case beyond reasonable doubt.

567 Joanne  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:12:36pm

re: #396 jaunte

I’m sadder than I am angry. But, yeah, this 54 year old white woman is angry.

568 Joanne  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:14:54pm

re: #409 darthstar

I killed my twitter feed an hour or so ago. Watching the Giants game and having a cocktail.

I went and watched something happy: Zero Dark Thirty. That’s my mood.

569 Joanne  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:19:15pm

re: #431 chadu

187. 230 at the trial.

No, Zimmerman was over 200 when it happened. He was clinically obese. He’d just lost like 80 lbs at that time from his MMA training. And the gym owner is now marketing Zimmerman training. That fuck lied on the stand.

570 Joanne  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:20:43pm

re: #438 HappyWarrior

Ah 30 pound difference between him and Treyvon then.

No, it was a 50 lb difference. Trayvon had 4” on him, but Z had the weight advantage.

571 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:21:48pm

re: #570 Joanne

No, it was a 50 lb difference. Trayvon had 4” on him, but Z had the weight advantage.

Gotcha. The pound difference fwiw is why I had and have a hard tine believing that Martin was the aggressor in the case especially since he seemed weirded out by Zimmerman’s following him.

572 Joanne  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:28:26pm

re: #479 Stanley Sea

Next Case in Florida

[Embedded content]

That dudes done. He’s been in jail the whole time. Plus, while he lived in Brevard Co, the murder didnt take place there.

Of course, nothing is certain, but this guy doesn’t have a modicum if excuse. He didnt know the right phrases to use, as Zimmerman did. Oh, and Michael Dunn (the killer) is a gun nut, hates government guy who killed a kid and then went back to his hotel and ordered pizza before driving 100 miles back to Brevard. I don’t see him getting off.

573 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:33:27pm

Well, I’m going to call it a night.

Thanks for the posts, glad I was here tonight.

574 rosiee  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:53:05pm

re: #505 HappyWarrior

now imagine dating Yoko Ono.

575 krypto  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:08:05am

re: #564 goddamnedfrank

You certainly gave that impression by telling us what the only possible expected outcome was. So you admit you were just talking out your ass, fine.

I continue to believe that was the only possible verdict. Claiming that seeing enough to form that conclusion, while having a life and not spending 8 hours a day watching the Zimmerman trial, is “talking out of my ass” is absurd.

The bottom line is that the jury confirmed my conclusion about what decision they would have to reach.

It was obviously not easy for them — they took a long time to deliberate — but it was not any surprise that they had to reach that decision.

576 PeterWolf  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:15:52am

re: #566 krypto

re: #575 krypto

Your village has filed a missing person report.

577 krypto  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:23:43am

re: #576 PeterWolf

Did that make you feel better?

578 PeterWolf  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:25:35am

re: #577 krypto

Did that make you feel better?

Merely an observation of your apparent idiocy.

579 piratedan  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:29:16am

911 Operator: Do Not get out of the car….

Zimmerman: Ok

nobody dies….

580 krypto  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:30:17am

re: #578 PeterWolf

Merely an observation of your apparent idiocy.

As your post shows about yourself, although I was being polite.

581 PeterWolf  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:32:50am

re: #580 krypto

As your post shows about yourself, although I was being polite.

You said, and I quote verbatim, “I continue to believe that was the only possible verdict”. You may believe what you wish, but that does not constitute fact. It is also apparent your understanding of the trial proceedings, evidence presented and background of the case are more than lacking, despite your assertions of ‘fact’.

But it’s nice to know you believe in logical fallacies.

582 krypto  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:38:10am

re: #581 PeterWolf

Whatever. I already explained correctly why it became obvious that the jury would have to reach that decision.

583 PeterWolf  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 12:46:46am

re: #582 krypto

Whatever. I already explained correctly why it became obvious that the jury would have to reach that decision.

In your parallel world? I didn’t see that here.

584 spiderx  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 1:18:07am

re: #575 krypto

I continue to believe that was the only possible verdict. Claiming that seeing enough to form that conclusion, while having a life and not spending 8 hours a day watching the Zimmerman trial, is “talking out of my ass” is absurd.

The bottom line is that the jury confirmed my conclusion about what decision they would have to reach.

It was obviously not easy for them — they took a long time to deliberate — but it was not any surprise that they had to reach that decision.

not surprising given that juries come to some perplexing decisions , especially in florida (casey anthony). But this was the clearest case of manslaughter I’ve ever seen. Martin was just minding his own business when GZ started to follow him. We don’t know what happened and how a scuffle started but it doesn’t matter. The law does not allow you to follow someone, start a confrontation, and then if you’re getting your ass whooped because of it, pull out a firearm and blow the guy away.

The only people who come to the conclusion that GZ was in the right are either racist or so gullible that they’ll fall for anything their side (in this case the right-wing echo chamber) tells them.

585 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 1:25:40am

When people say that there was only one possible verdict the jury could have made, they’re saying the judge made a mistake in not entering a directed judgement as a matter of law. They’re saying she erred, that she needlessly and recklessly jeopardized Zimmerman’s freedom in even letting the jury go into deliberation.

586 krypto  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 1:47:00am

re: #584 spiderx

not surprising given that juries come to some perplexing decisions , especially in florida (casey anthony). But this was the clearest case of manslaughter I’ve ever seen. Martin was just minding his own business when GZ started to follow him. We don’t know what happened and how a scuffle started but it doesn’t matter. The law does not allow you to follow someone, start a confrontation, and then if you’re getting your ass whooped because of it, pull out a firearm and blow the guy away.

The only people who come to the conclusion that GZ was in the right are either racist or so gullible that they’ll fall for anything their side (in this case the right-wing echo chamber) tells them.

In the right? Hardly. There are plenty of things that he should have done differently. And obviously there should not have been any dead 17 year old.

“The law does not allow you to follow someone, start a confrontation, and then if you’re getting your ass whooped because of it, pull out a firearm and blow the guy away.”

Let’s break that apart — following Martin may have been dumb, but there is no law against it. It is not any form of assault and not any excuse to attack. And the credibility of a self-defense claim depends in part on who physically attacked who — and therefore on what the jury can conclude about that point.

The problem with expecting Zimmerman to be convicted of manslaughter however is that acting in self-defense is valid as a defense against both the murder and manslaughter charge.

And sorry, but I don’t think anyone should form opinions about much of anything based on that kind of “the only people who believe this are that” kind of characterization.

587 krypto  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 1:50:24am

re: #585 goddamnedfrank

When people say that there was only one possible verdict the jury could have made, they’re saying the judge made a mistake in not entering a directed judgement as a matter of law. They’re saying she erred, that she needlessly and recklessly jeopardized Zimmerman’s freedom in even letting the jury go into deliberation.

There was no way any judge was going to issue a directed judgement in a case of this sort, regardless of the evidence.

588 CMReaK  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 4:39:46am

re: #443 Dark_Falcon

“The defense authorized by this section shall be established by evidence that the participant has been convicted of such forcible felony or attempted forcible felony, or by proof of the commission of such crime or attempted crime by a preponderance of the evidence.”

Since Martin wasn’t convicted of a forcible felony Zimmerman would have to assert that he has “proof of the commission of such crime”. There is no such proof, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Martin family filing that law suit.

589 boredtechindenver  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 4:49:54am

re: #343 moderatelyradicalliberal

Driving While Black
Walking While Black
Breathing While Black

Can all get you killed.

Youtube Video

590 Joanne  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 6:37:12am

re: #585 goddamnedfrank

When people say that there was only one possible verdict the jury could have made, they’re saying the judge made a mistake in not entering a directed judgement as a matter of law. They’re saying she erred, that she needlessly and recklessly jeopardized Zimmerman’s freedom in even letting the jury go into deliberation.

That’s what Alan Dershowitz said. Actually I think he said something to the effect of prosecution should be jailed for bringing charges and the judge was negligent for not doing a directed verdict.

He’s really gone around the bend lately on many issues.

591 Skip Intro  Sun, Jul 14, 2013 8:40:02am
“Fucking punks,” Zimmerman told the police dispatcher that night. “These assholes. They always get away.”

For once, the murderer Zimmerman is right.

592 PeterWolf  Mon, Jul 15, 2013 6:26:41am

Sometimes, one can only hope that karma is real and people like Zimmerman will experience it firsthand.

593 Conn. Lawyer  Mon, Jul 15, 2013 12:02:17pm

I’ve just glanced through the comments here and it’s a little surprising how little attention was paid to the evidence by the commenters. You know, evidence, the stuff that people say in court and the physical evidence presented in court.

Based on my review of the evidence, I think it is more likely than not that Martin decided to teach the “creep-ass cracker” a lesson in respect, and so sucker-punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocked Zimmerman to the ground, and climbed on top of Zimmerman, banging away at Zimmerman’s head (evidence: Rachel’s testimony that Martin referred to the “creepy-ass cracker” and that Martin did not return to the house when he had a chance, Good’s testimony that Martin was on top beating on Zimmerman, Dr. Maio’s expert testimony about Zimmerman’s injuries). Had Martin not done that, he would be alive today. Had Martin gone home, he would be alive today. Had Martin called 911, he would be alive today. Had Martin engaged Zimmerman in a civil conversation (“Why are you following me?” “Because you don’t live here” “Oh, I’m staying with my dad” “OK, take care”), he would be alive today. Was Zimmerman foolish and imprudent in getting out of his car to track a stranger in the dark on a rainy night? Sure, that was a dangerous thing to do. You know, the stranger might decide to sucker-punch you in the nose and ground + pound you. Would I track a stranger through my neighborhood in the dark and rain while I’m waiting for the cops to come? No, I’m not brave enough or that civic minded.

594 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 15, 2013 2:17:15pm

re: #593 Conn. Lawyer

I’ve just glanced through the comments here and it’s a little surprising how little attention was paid to the evidence by the commenters. You know, evidence, the stuff that people say in court and the physical evidence presented in court.

So you take a glance at the comments here and decide we have not paid enough attention to the evidence?

Does the irony escape you?

595 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Jul 15, 2013 2:37:49pm

re: #593 Conn. Lawyer

Martin had one small injury on his hand, and Zimmerman had a 2cm and .5cm cut on the back of his head and no significant contusions. Why do you think that’s consistent with Zimmerman having his head banged into the ground?

Why do you consider Zimmerman pursuing Martin ‘brave’? What was brave about it?

596 jamesfirecat  Mon, Jul 15, 2013 2:55:03pm

re: #593 Conn. Lawyer

I’ve just glanced through the comments here and it’s a little surprising how little attention was paid to the evidence by the commenters. You know, evidence, the stuff that people say in court and the physical evidence presented in court.

Based on my review of the evidence, I think it is more likely than not that Martin decided to teach the “creep-ass cracker” a lesson in respect, and so sucker-punched Zimmerman in the nose, knocked Zimmerman to the ground, and climbed on top of Zimmerman, banging away at Zimmerman’s head (evidence: Rachel’s testimony that Martin referred to the “creepy-ass cracker” and that Martin did not return to the house when he had a chance, Good’s testimony that Martin was on top beating on Zimmerman, Dr. Maio’s expert testimony about Zimmerman’s injuries). Had Martin not done that, he would be alive today. Had Martin gone home, he would be alive today. Had Martin called 911, he would be alive today. Had Martin engaged Zimmerman in a civil conversation (“Why are you following me?” “Because you don’t live here” “Oh, I’m staying with my dad” “OK, take care”), he would be alive today. Was Zimmerman foolish and imprudent in getting out of his car to track a stranger in the dark on a rainy night? Sure, that was a dangerous thing to do. You know, the stranger might decide to sucker-punch you in the nose and ground + pound you. Would I track a stranger through my neighborhood in the dark and rain while I’m waiting for the cops to come? No, I’m not brave enough or that civic minded.

Whatever else we may feel on the trial I think everyone should be able to agree that Zimmerman acted in a manner that was neither “brave” or “civic minded” there is a reason real official crime watch groups FORBID their members from going on patrol while armed.


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