Detroit Goes Bankrupt, Wingnuts Celebrate

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Wingnuts • Views: 27,688

My hometown, the city where I was born & raised, the region where I still live and work, has filed for bankruptcy. This is the first time that a major American city has fallen.

Here is a sample of the celebration on Twitter of self-proclaimed “patriotic Americans.”

These wingnuts also do not understand that it is the municipal city government of Detroit that has failed, not the auto industry which was bailed out in 2010. The auto industry is still thriving.

Oh and, the office of Mayor is non-partisan, candidates for Mayor of Detroit do not run on party affiliation.

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667 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:26:03pm
2 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:30:44pm
3 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:31:10pm
4 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:31:48pm
5 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:32:01pm
6 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:32:30pm
7 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:44:27pm
8 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:45:00pm
9 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:45:39pm
10 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:46:34pm
11 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:46:51pm
12 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:47:11pm
13 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:47:24pm
14 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:47:32pm
15 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:47:59pm
16 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:48:35pm
17 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:49:01pm
18 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:49:36pm
19 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:49:47pm
20 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:50:18pm

If a bear shits in the woods, will anybody know it’s because liberalism has failed again and will destroy us all?

21 EPR-radar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:51:29pm

The death cultists of the GOP base have found a perfect target for their spite and malice.

22 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:51:41pm
23 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:52:31pm
24 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:53:33pm
25 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:54:09pm
26 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 3:55:06pm
27 ObserverArt  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:17:34pm

I love Detroit. Been to the city many times. And as a car fanatic, this is just so sad. I cannot believe such a major power city in American can be abandoned like this. At one time wasn’t it like the 5th largest city in America?

A favorite Detroit work of Art

28 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:21:29pm
29 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:24:48pm
30 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:25:06pm
31 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:25:36pm
32 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:25:51pm

I dont think there are enough tweets in this thread

33 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:26:40pm
34 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:27:22pm

re: #32 SpaceJesus

I dont think there are enough tweets in this thread

Hey! I’m embedding as fast as I can!

35 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:32:35pm
36 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 4:32:57pm
37 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:18:34pm

Wow, I didn’t see the rest of the psycho Tweets. Anyway, here’s my latest:

38 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:18:51pm

Anyone ever referring to Detroit as a ‘utopia’ was doing it while standing in a giant vat filled to the brim with irony, while wearing irony pants and smoking some prime irony hash.

39 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:20:09pm

Liberal utopia Detroit

what a peculiar idea

where do they get these notions from?

40 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:21:07pm

Collectivist Detroit

another hallucination

41 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:23:01pm

re: #39 engineer cat

Liberal utopia Detroit

what a peculiar idea

where do they get these notions from?

Portland, OR falls more into the ‘liberal utopia’ category, as does Seattle, WA.

42 jaunte  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:24:06pm

What a creep this son of Erick is.
Boston, West, Texas, America, don’t give up hope

“…I can tell you confidently it is no easy thing to let your heart not be troubled. But I can tell you in a world where so many politicize everything, we yell at each other, and every hill is a hill on which to die, whether you choose to believe or not there is good and there is evil and there is a man upstairs who has a plan that while we may not know it we can be assured that all things, even in the pit of the various hells on this present earth, yes all things do work for the good of those called according to his purpose.”

43 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:29:52pm

What an amazing festival of pure derp.

Of course people like Malkin and Erickson are well aware that when Obama said “we won’t let Detroit go bankrupt” he was talking about the auto industry. They just need to supply their knuckle-dragging followers with their rage fixes - that’s all that matters.

44 b.d.  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:31:22pm

Help me out here, what liberal policies did Detroit implement that no other major American city did not?

45 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:31:40pm

What will they say when America’s second most conservative city, Lubbock, goes bankrupt in a few years? I believe it will, too, with a declining tax base, a poor future for some key industries, and increasingly ferocious and irrational opposition to any taxation. In particular, reckless, unregulated developers insist that the city annex their new mcMansion tracts while older areas rot from the inside out because there is no money for all the needed infrastructure. This is without the longer term catastrophe that will befall the ag sector because of climate change and the depletion of the Ogallala aquifer. I’m getting out while the getting is good.

46 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:33:15pm

re: #45 Shiplord Kirel

What will they say when America’s second most conservative city, Lubbock, goes bankrupt in a few years?

You already know the answer to that. It will be blamed on “The Ill-Eagles” and Obamacare.

47 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:33:29pm

These people are proof of the fake American pride syndrome. They only like “their” America. The rest can just fuck off.

48 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:35:32pm

Yeah, actively cheering on and jeering the bankruptcy of an American city sure screams patriot to me. Let me guess… bald eagle avatars and Benghazi ribbons are staple. The new American flag lapel pin.

Dicks.

49 Mateo Scourge  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:37:53pm

re: #39 engineer cat

Liberal utopia Detroit

what a peculiar idea

where do they get these notions from?

The thinking works like this.

All Liberal Utopias go bankrupt.

Detroit went bankrupt, therefore it must have been a liberal utopia.

Therefore all liberal utopias go bankrupt.

Circular logic? Oh, my, yes. Same thing made Wade Churchill a Liberal Icon:

Liberal Icons say hateful things.

Wade Churchill said a hateful thing, therefore Wade Churchill is a Liberal Icon.

Therefore, Liberal Icons say hateful things.

50 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:38:06pm

re: #37 Gus

Wow, I didn’t see the rest of the psycho Tweet. Anyway, here’s my latest:

[Embedded content]

Christ, what a bunch of racist bile. With 92,000+ millionaires, you’d think someone would have created some more jobs…

It is a surprise that Detroit has a single millionaire, let alone over 90,000. Both the car industry and the large number of companies that supported it with parts, technology and components like tires all suffered as sales fell. GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy.* But the industry has begun an unexpected renaissance. GM and Ford are routinely the top two manufacturers of cars sold in the U.S. Each has cut costs enough to insure profitability. Michigan has offered tax incentives to bring new industries to the Detroit area, helping it become a modest center for small tech firms. (my emphasis)

*Bailed out by the US govt. So, WTF happened to the jobs? Now, those employed by City govt will have to worry about their pensions. It’s just going to get worse as the real power in Detroit goes Galt.

51 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:40:57pm

re: #47 Stanley Sea

These people are proof of the fake American pride syndrome. They only like “their” America. The rest can just fuck off.

Yeah, Detroit is not the real America to these feces flingers, despite having a produced an amazing percentage of the material, and largely originated the methods, that crushed the Axis in World War2. At one point, Ford’s Willow Run plant in Detroit was delivering B-24 bombers at the rate of one an hour.

52 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:41:00pm
53 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:42:18pm

re: #44 b.d.

Help me out here, what liberal policies did Detroit implement that no other major American city did not?

YOONYUNZ!!11!!

54 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:42:29pm

re: #37 Gus

psycho Tweet

Qu’est-ce que c’est
fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better
Run run run run run run run away

55 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:45:06pm

Conversely the Liberal bastions of California and New York seem to be doing just fine.

Liberals didn’t kill Detroit. The loss of U.S. manufacturing killed Detroit. As soon as GOP-voting millionaires realized they could make stuff way cheaper overseas they abandoned Detroit and took a shitload of good jobs with them.

And many of these same individuals are I’m sure now gloating about how “Liberal” policies have killed Detroit.

56 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:45:33pm

DERP

57 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:46:58pm

Stay classy wingnuts

58 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:47:05pm

DERP

59 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:49:12pm

This is a wingnut wetdream. A northern city run by uneyans and habitated by lots of blah people. But woe be to anyone lacking a patriotic flagpin or caught reading a book by Howard Zinn.

60 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:49:47pm
61 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:49:49pm

So much for America being all in it together.

62 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:50:33pm
63 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:52:41pm

Interim cute break.

64 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:53:20pm

I saw a retweet a little while ago that I had a “conspiray [sic] theory” that David Sirota was an undercover wingnut.

It’s impossible to make sarcasm obvious enough for these people.

65 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:53:36pm

Hey Wingnuts the last time I checked Michigan is under Republican control.

66 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:54:32pm

re: #55 Eclectic Cyborg

Conversely the Liberal bastions of California and New York seem to be doing just fine.

Liberals didn’t kill Detroit. The loss of U.S. manufacturing killed Detroit. As soon as GOP-voting millionaires realized they could make stuff way cheaper overseas they abandoned Detroit and took a shitload of good jobs with them.

And many of these same individuals are I’m sure now gloating about how “Liberal” policies have killed Detroit.

If I’m not mistaken, Detroit has also suffered the loss of some 60% of its population over the last 50 years - that certainly doesn’t help matters either.

67 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:54:53pm

#NewDetroitCityMottos Detroiters are taking this hashtag away from the wingnuts!

68 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:55:50pm
69 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:57:40pm

Secretly spotted WW bookmarking my cute link.

70 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:57:49pm

re: #64 Charles Johnson

I saw a retweet a little while ago that I had a “conspiray [sic] theory” that David Sirota was an undercover wingnut.

It’s impossible to make sarcasm obvious enough for these people.

[Embedded content]

Gus is working on universal acceptance of the sarc tag convention for Twitter.

/

71 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:58:18pm
72 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:58:43pm

re: #69 Gus

Secretly spotted WW bookmarking my cute link.

I did click on the manx kittens looking for more!

73 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 5:59:42pm

re: #60 Vicious Babushka

That building is beautiful, even in disrepair. So much could be done with it if the Bridge Troll could be moved.

Also, a symbol of Detroit. Which even now has more character and culture than your average cookie-cutter New South Cities like Dallas or Houston, among others.

I remember how ticked I got when some air-headed Galveston Girl at OU whined about Pittsburgh was so ugly and nasty.

My response being that at least it didn’t have the stench Houston does, and they don’t go whining to the Feds for help when a Natural Disaster strikes. That little kerfuffle was in 2010.

74 Drimble Wedge  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:00:02pm

These tweets are what I call ‘Raw Satanic Sewage Out of Hell’.

75 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:00:56pm

MOST DISGUSTING TWEET SO FAR. (click at your own risk)

76 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:01:08pm
77 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:01:16pm

Image: 1d9a0bbb1b70e4a8ef776654ae4148b8.jpg

78 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:01:42pm

I think this is the Hound of SpaceJesus.

Image: hF7DC6A97.jpg

Later, lizards.

79 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:02:27pm

re: #27 ObserverArt

I love Detroit. Been to the city many times. And as a car fanatic, this is just so sad. I cannot believe such a major power city in American can be abandoned like this. At one time wasn’t it like the 5th largest city in America?

A favorite Detroit work of Art

Done by a Mexican artist.

80 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:03:04pm
81 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:03:30pm

re: #80 Vicious Babushka

REBRANDING

82 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:04:40pm

Yeah, people in Detroit are totally going to vote Republican now.

83 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:04:50pm
84 jaunte  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:05:06pm

re: #80 Vicious Babushka

They seem nice.

85 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:09:02pm

Yes, the city manager appointed by the Republican governor files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, allowing the city to start divesting itself of pensions that are protected by the Michigan constitution so as to avoid raising taxes even a smidge on the 1%.

The rich raiding the pensions of the poor to cover for their own greed. I’m shocked, SHOCKED!//

86 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:11:22pm

So if West Texas goes bankrupt I’m supposed to laugh?

Rhetorical question.

87 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:12:24pm

Wingnuts have had Detroit derangement syndrome for some time now.

88 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:12:41pm

re: #16 Vicious Babushka

All these people seem really nice.

89 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:12:53pm

re: #87 Gus

Wingnuts have had Detroit derangement syndrome for some time now.

Wonder why?

90 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:13:33pm

The Wall Street Journal’s take on the Detroit Bankruptcy. online.wsj.com

91 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:14:30pm

I’ve only been to Detroit a couple of times, but for some strange reason I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for that city.

92 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:14:45pm

re: #89 Stanley Sea

Wonder why?

Nothing that close to Canada can be trusted. Socialism is wind-borne.

That must be it.

93 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:14:57pm

re: #83 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

94 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:15:40pm

Oops. That previous post mentioned him being relieved of duty.

95 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:15:44pm

Showing some love for Motor City, Kid Rock’s excellent video for “Roll On”

Youtube Video

96 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:16:13pm

Civic pride? Community? Sounds socialist.

97 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:17:04pm

re: #84 jaunte

These people making joke about people and a eviscerated city are sociopaths.

I would love to go to Detroit. To live. The city needs new life. Why not take advantage of instability in the Middle East, along with Dearborn’s high Middle Eastern and Muslim population, and turn it into what Chicago was at the beginning of the last century?

In the early 1900’s, Chicago was the largest Swedish City on the planet, except for Gothenburg and Stockholm. Have Detroit become the largest Arab city aside from Cairo, Baghdad, and Damascus.

98 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:17:23pm

re: #89 Stanley Sea

Wonder why?

Demographics, basically the same syndrome that targets the White House.

99 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:17:30pm

Wasilia, now there’s a town to be proud of.

100 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:17:57pm

re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg

Unfortunately, he also is a Republican.

He contributes to the problem.

101 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:18:20pm

re: #51 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, Detroit is not the real America to these feces flingers, despite having a produced an amazing percentage of the material, and largely originated the methods, that crushed the Axis in World War2. At one point, Ford’s Willow Run plant in Detroit was delivering B-24 bombers at the rate of one an hour.

One every 63 minutes actually, not quite one an hour saddly. Though Ford did make more Tanks than all of Italy Durring WW2.

(Facts taken here and there from “Why the Allies Won” a boo I really need to order off amazon at some point since I can so rarely find it in libraries these days.)

102 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:19:06pm

Detroit isn’t the first big city to declare bankruptcy. Stockton, CA, did so in 2012. But Detroit is the largest to do so.

Thing is that Detroit’s situation was a long time coming and was a combination of a shrinking tax base, shrinking industrial base, and a government that didn’t adjust its spending habits accordingly to say nothing of the rampant corruption and graft among top officials.

Having a bunch of billionaires who held the city over a barrel doesn’t help. When significant parts of the city are under the control of one guy, who does absolutely nothing to maintain or revitalize those areas, something is wrong - with that billionaire. That’s Matty Maroun for you - the same guy who’s fighting to prevent the Canadians building a bridge to the US free to US taxpayers because it would supposedly devalue his bridge monopoly (or force him to make significant improvements to his bridge, which he’s been fighting every step of the way).

It’s a dysfunctional situation, and the bankrupty will help shed significant debt from the Detroit ledger, but it’s going to have to reform the tax rolls, change the implementation of municipal services across the entire municipality to address the reduction in population, and will need to reconsider bulldozing and consolidating areas to reduce the burden on the government.

Add to that pension obligations and promises made to municipal workers - many of whom still live in the area, and there’s going to be a whole ton of pain for those living in and around Detroit.

103 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:20:02pm

re: #84 jaunte

Team Hate has a posse.

104 Bear  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:20:05pm

It appears that most here agree Detroit has a problem. What solutions can you come up with? What new business or industries?

105 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:20:16pm

re: #100 ProTARDISLiberal

Unfortunately, he also is a Republican.

He contributes to the problem.

I did not know that.

Politics aside, I still like the video.

106 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:22:20pm

I look at how the GOP is handling Detroit, and I can’t help but see the parallels in how they want to handle the national finances. Passing a law in a Republican-controlled legislature to allow the Republican governor to appoint an unelected jackhole virtually unchallenged power over the city’s finances. Then creating the very crisis that they say leaves them with no other choice to declare bankruptcy, even as outside economics and mathematics experts say the numbers don’t add up, so that they can use the cover of bankruptcy proceedings to accelerate the slash-and-burn campaign. Selling off public property, cutting funding past even bare-bones, and now stiffing pensions, all in the name of paying financiers who were happy to write out all these loans when times were good.

You want to see America under another Republican administration? Look at Detroit.

107 Lawrence Schmerel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:22:30pm

The largest, but not the first.

The interwebs say there has been 36 municipal bankruptcy filings since January 2010, including the following eight cities and localities:
— City of Detroit
— City of San Bernardino, Calif.
— Town of Mammoth Lakes, Calf. (Dismissed)
— City of Stockton, Calif.
— Jefferson County, Ala.
— City of Harrisburg, Pa. (Dismissed)
— City of Central Falls, R.I.
— Boise County, Idaho (Dismissed)

I don’t recall the wingers laughing about Jefferson County, Alabama, deep in the heart of Mother Dixie.

108 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:22:53pm

re: #104 Bear

It appears that most here agree Detroit has a problem. What solutions can you come up with? What new business or industries?

Personally I’d like to see some tech companies invest more in Detroit. I think the city has a lot of untapped potential. I also think the entertainment industry could help to boost the city. It should also take advantage of its position relative to the Canadian border.

109 darthstar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:24:47pm

Too bad Mitt Romney didn’t say, “Let Erick Erickson go bankrupt.” What a prick.

110 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:24:54pm

NewDetroitCityMottos

111 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:25:38pm

re: #107 Lawrence Schmerel

Didn’t mean to sound flippant last night—hit my nic.

112 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:27:44pm

re: #104 Bear

It appears that most here agree Detroit has a problem. What solutions can you come up with? What new business or industries?

What saved Pittsburgh when steel went to China was massive shifts to Medicine and Education. Both are based on institutional/public money.

113 Lawrence Schmerel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:28:01pm

re: #111 Decatur Deb

I actually just wasn’t sure what you meant, but I didn’t take any offense. Peace.

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:29:00pm

re: #113 Lawrence Schmerel

I actually just wasn’t sure what you meant, but I didn’t take any offense. Peace.

Happens every few months—a running joke now.

115 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:31:57pm

Well the B-24 talk led to this.

116 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:32:33pm

re: #101 jamesfirecat

One every 63 minutes actually, not quite one an hour saddly. Though Ford did make more Tanks than all of Italy Durring WW2.

(Facts taken here and there from “Why the Allies Won” a boo I really need to order off amazon at some point since I can so rarely find it in libraries these days.)

Actually got to ride in a B-24 back in the 70s. Buffs love to compare it to the less numerous but more famous B-17. B-24 pilots will point out that the 17 was the glamour ship of the AAF while the 24 was the workforce. It was basically a more modern aircraft than the B-17, and had better overall performance (especially in range). It was harder to fly, though, and (most unfortunately) nothing like so resistant to battle damage. The B-17 was literally in a class by itself in the latter area. The way I see it: You look at a B-17 (designed in 1934) and you see the Golden Age of Aviation. You look at a B-24 (designed 5 years later) and you see the future coming.

117 jaunte  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:33:00pm
Jefferson County Commissioner Joe Knight said moving down a spot on the list is “nothing to celebrate. We’re still in bankruptcy,” he said. “I feel bad for the citizens of Detroit and anybody that has to file.”
blog.al.com

This is how decent people respond.

118 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:33:40pm

re: #115 Gus

Give me a second. Need to fav and retweet those.

119 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:34:19pm

Compare Detroit to Bloomfield Hills: en.wikipedia.org

Not surprisingly, Steve Stockman is from BH. We already know about Rmoney’s roots there.

I’d say the negative “attitude” about Detroit originates from BH and other suburban environs. White flight creates its own set of problems for cities. Suburbanites want the amenities of the city but don’t want to pay, instead, using city public funds. I saw the same thing happen to Atlanta, and now is happening to Charlotte, NC.

120 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:35:08pm

re: #117 jaunte

This is how decent people respond.

Country United States
Current Office
Office: Jefferson County Commission
State: Alabama
District: 4
Party: Republican
Political Views Conservative

facebook.com

121 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:35:58pm
122 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:36:30pm

If Detroit could get the half the town out of the grip of slum lords, a city like that could actually bring in some tourism. A lot of the buildings and public works were built at the tail end of the beaux-arts movement and project real style.

There’s little demand or public will outside of the largest cities to build architecture like that anymore, and it really sticks out in the age of pre-fab concrete. In decay, much of it looks better than many cities will look 100 years from now.

123 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:36:46pm

I really shudder to think how these assholes treat their families, neighbors, their kids teachers, the guy at the grocery store, hell, anyone. There’s no fucking way that level of horrific hatred doesn’t spill over into their personal lives. Not. A. Chance.

124 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:37:07pm
125 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:37:33pm

I just can’t even…

126 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:39:26pm

re: #123 A Mom Anon

I’ve seen up close how these assholes treat their kids teachers. It ain’t pretty.

127 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:41:44pm

I remember some BJP-supporting dumbass who was rushing for APO in my final year at OU acting like he was some hardcore thug, saying he was from the Detroit area. Would come into meetings 3 sheets to the wind.

Found out he came from Farmington Hills. Suffice to say, I didn’t take him seriously. Namely because anywhere is a harsher place than Farmington Hills.

128 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:46:27pm

I think Senator Levin actually steered stimulus money towards Tiger Stadium back in 2008, and the city council still tore down the remains of the stadium so they could develop some strip malls on the site.

Tiger Stadium was older than Wrigley and Fenway, and it should have been a focus of revitalization like those stadiums were.

BTW, Comerica Park was 2/3 financed by the city, in the form of a rental and hotel tax.

129 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:46:52pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

I just can’t even…

[Embedded content]

I just wish he’d move to Somalia and see what it’s really like.

130 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:47:36pm

Nothing but pure gloating. These are bad people.

Not to mention morons as well.

131 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:49:26pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

It may make sense to have an advanced auto incubator center - combining incentives for tech/net companies and the lower costs for the downtown area to bring back high paying jobs and stabilize the tax base.

But the state has done an awful job with redevelopment considering what’s happened in places like Pontiac and Flint. Industrial towns that haven’t recovered from the loss of the manufacturing lines there.

Thing is, there were more than a few people who wrote off NYC as ungovernable - that the Bronx would burn - from shore to shore, and that the City itself would go belly up.

They had been contemplating bankruptcy before the Governor and Mayor came up with a stabilization plan, and within a few years, the ungovernable not only became governable, but the historic high crime rates were replaced with unimaginably low crime rates, Times Square was turned from a peep show haven to the crossroads of the world with global titans of business clamoring for space in the gleaming new skyscrapers that now tower over the most expensive real estate in the US.

Having the right people at the right time helped - whether it was Ed Koch, Rudy, or Bloomberg, as well as their NYPD commissioners who helped implement community policy and compustat, and other efforts to make people feel safer to live and work in the City. Rezoning opened up new parts of the city for development on the fringes - Williamsburg, Dumbo, parts of Manhattan, the Bronx, and all the other spots in the city that are now up and coming because of their relative low cost for real estate compared to other parts of the city.

132 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:49:49pm
133 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:50:18pm

These fools suck.

134 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:50:56pm

It’s like a universal constant. Corrupt assholes rip down old buildings and put up parking lots and strip malls in their place. A town near me nearly destroyed itself in the 70s before a public subscription saved the older buildings from destruction.

The free market is hardly efficient in this case. Architecture like that doesn’t get rebuilt today without megatons of money.

135 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:51:58pm

re: #132 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

“Our” money?

136 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:52:45pm

They’re still partying.

137 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:53:18pm

re: #131 lawhawk

The trouble is that a city must be a natural, organic outgrowth of it’s economic and cultural environment. It can’t be forced or saved. The thing that made Detroit great—the cheap car—is killing the cities. (Note that topography makes NYC somewhat immune to it. Still a subway/LIRR town.)

138 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:53:25pm
139 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:54:49pm

How is it possible that in a “Socialist” city ONE FUCKING BILLIONAIRE can own an entire international border crossing?
I really have to shut down the TweetDeck for tonight.

140 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:54:55pm

re: #132 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

What’s this “our money” fuckwit? Did I miss something where the citizens of Detroit were exempt from federal taxes? Or even state taxes?

141 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:55:30pm

Wingnuts have had a wonderful week: first the white guy got off for shooting the black kid then a city goes bankrupt.

They haven’t been this happy since Rove called a Romney win on election night.

142 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:56:21pm

No mention of the Emergency Manager law, huh? That alone seems more autocratic than most socialist run countries.

143 jaunte  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:56:46pm

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

#Detroit joins a long list of socialist failures:

Jefferson County?

144 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:57:02pm

re: #138 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Can you add someone to a list that has you blocked?

145 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:58:01pm

re: #142 dragonath

No mention of the Emergency Manager law, huh? That alone seems more autocratic than most socialist run countries.

Yeah, ya gotta love it. A Republican legislature passes a bill allowing the Republican governor to appointed a buddy who never has to stand for election to handle the city’s finances, wielding power that allows him to override everybody except the unions. And he now can override even them because he’s drug the city into bankruptcy court.

146 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:58:21pm

re: #143 jaunte

Jefferson County?

Birmingham AL. Went bankrupt over a spectacularly corrupt Sewer/water contract involving the major WS banks and the State administration.

147 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:58:47pm

re: #132 Vicious Babushka

WhoTF is Rick Collins? WhyTF should anyone care? I really do get a kick out of these ‘conservative’ internet authoritarians. There’s a bag o’ dicks under a heat lamp with your name on it, Rick.

Suck it.

148 jaunte  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:59:12pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Wall Street banks, notably socialist.

149 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 6:59:20pm

re: #147 alpuz

WhoTF is Rick Collins? WhyTF should anyone care? I really do get a kick out of these ‘conservative’ internet authoritarians. There’s a bag o’ dicks under a heat lamp with your name on it, Rick.

Suck it.

Has anyone actually ever seen a bag-o-dicks? //

150 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:00:21pm

re: #144 Gus

Can you add someone to a list that has you blocked?

No.

151 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:00:40pm

re: #149 Gus

Has anyone actually ever seen a bag-o-dicks? //

#lnyhbt

152 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:00:45pm

re: #150 Vicious Babushka

No.

Yep. Just saw that.

153 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:01:04pm

re: #141 BigPapa

Wingnuts have had a wonderful week: first the white guy got off for shooting the black kid then a city goes bankrupt.

They haven’t been this happy since Rove called a Romney win on election night.

And the Repubs think they’re going to recruit women and minorities to the party with this kind of fuckery?

154 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:01:20pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Birmingham AL. Went bankrupt over a spectacularly corrupt Sewer/water contract involving the major WS banks and the State administration.

That one doesn’t get much mention because Wall Street got it’s ass paddled in bankruptcy court, being forced to agree to writing off billions in debt when the web of bad loans and bribery became public knowledge.

155 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:01:39pm

Newman.

156 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:02:11pm

re: #148 jaunte

Wall Street banks, notably socialist.

JP Morgan.


Sewer construction and bond swap controversy (Wiki)

Two extremely controversial undertakings by the county account for the majority of this debt. First was a massive overhaul of the county-owned sewer system, and second was a series of risky bond-swap agreements. Both have been scrutinized by federal prosecutors, with several former county officials convicted of bribery and corruption.[7][3]
A series of controversial interest rate swaps, initiated in 2002 and 2003 by former Commission President Larry Langford (removed as the mayor of Birmingham after his conviction[8]), were intended to lower interest payments, but have, in fact, had the opposite effect, increasing the county’s indebtedness to the point that officials have issued formal statements doubting the county’s ability to meet its financial obligations. The bond swaps are at the center of an investigation by the United States Securities and Exchange Commission.[9]
In late February 2008 Standard & Poor’s lowered their rating of Jefferson County bonds to “junk” status. The likelihood of the county filing for Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection has been debated in the press.[10] In early March 2008, Moody’s followed suit and indicated that it would also review the county’s ability to meet other bond obligations.[11]
On March 7, 2008, Jefferson County failed to post $184 million collateral as required under its sewer bond agreements, thereby moving into technical default.[12]
In February 2011, Lesley Curwen of the BBC World Service interviewed David Carrington, the newly appointed president of the county commission, about the risk of defaulting on bonds issued to finance “what could be the most expensive sewage system in history.” Carrington said there was “no doubt that people from Wall Street offered bribes” and “have to take a huge responsibility for what happened.” The system was repaired and upgraded a few years ago because of environmental problems. Wall Street investment banks including JP Morgan and others arranged complex financial deals using swaps. The fees and penalty charges increased the cost so the county now has $3.2 billion outstanding. Some county officials have been prosecuted for accepting bribes from bankers and are now in prison or awaiting sentence. Carrington said one of the problems was that elected officials had welcomed scheduling with very low early payments so long as peak payments occurred after they left office. The debt structure now was such that there was no way that 700,000 people could pay it back over 30 years. The job could have been done for somewhere between $1.2 billion and $1.5 billion but shouldn’t have cost $3.2 billion. Those selling the bonds weren’t interested in whether they could be repaid as they would have moved on. The county was not able to pay its bills and now needed to restructure its debts to avoid bankruptcy. Investors would lose out but hopefully innocent small investors would get 100%. The SEC has awarded the county $75 million in compensation relation to “unlawful payments” against JP Morgan and in addition the company will forfeit $647 million of future fees. Carrington said citizens had to elect the right people to avoid a repeat disaster. Officials must identify those responsible, including local investment bankers, and root them out. A characteristic symptom of wrongdoing is unaudited books, the county was three years behind with its auditing, new debts cannot be issued until auditing is complete and this could take 1-2 years.[13]

157 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:02:28pm

re: #137 Decatur Deb

NYC needs to significantly expand its mass transit to keep pace with growth and to encourage more growth too.

The building of the 2d avenue subway and 7 line expansion are a belated and very costly move to expand and add capacity where it has long been needed.

We’ve got to get construction costs down in order to build out the 2d Ave line to its full length, but there are other projects around the City that ought to be considered to add capacity outside Manhattan - like direct links between the Bronx and Brooklyn without going into Manhattan (Triboro RX). It’s going to take foresight and someone who will get the budget in place to make it happen. Other cities face similar challenges - trying to build density at a reasonable cost - even though density brings higher ratables for real estate, and can pay for itself in the long run.

158 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:02:38pm

re: #149 Gus

Image: BagOfDicks.jpg

159 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:03:07pm

re: #149 Gus

Has anyone actually ever seen a bag-o-dicks? //

Seen a bucket of hammers.

160 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:03:57pm

re: #159 Decatur Deb

Seen a bucket of hammers.

Buckets of rain. Buckets of tears. Got all them buckets coming out of my ears… Buckets of moon beams…

161 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:04:07pm

re: #157 lawhawk

NYC needs to significantly expand its mass transit to keep pace with growth and to encourage more growth too.

The building of the 2d avenue subway and 7 line expansion are a belated and very costly move to expand and add capacity where it has long been needed.

We’ve got to get construction costs down in order to build out the 2d Ave line to its full length, but there are other projects around the City that ought to be considered to add capacity outside Manhattan - like direct links between the Bronx and Brooklyn without going into Manhattan (Triboro RX). It’s going to take foresight and someone who will get the budget in place to make it happen. Other cities face similar challenges - trying to build density at a reasonable cost - even though density brings higher ratables for real estate, and can pay for itself in the long run.

Hire Zombie Robert Moses.

162 jaunte  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:04:30pm

re: #156 Decatur Deb

I see.

The bank’s fees on the swaps weren’t disclosed; rather, they were embedded in the interest rates the county paid. JPMorgan overcharged the county on the swaps to cover the cost of more than $8 million in secret payments made to friends of county commissioners who worked for local companies, a step to secure JPMorgan’s lead role, according to the SEC.
bloomberg.com

163 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:05:15pm
164 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:06:02pm

An interesting thing about cities that old is that the grandest buildings were designed with the public in mind. Libraries, train stations, government buildings. I don’t know when the shift happened, but there’s almost nothing in (for example) Ft. Worth or Dallas that compares to the New York Public Library or Grand Central Terminal.

165 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:06:14pm

I have several boxes of rocks, collected from all over the world. I’ve seen a box of Moon rocks, nothing dumb about those. They wouldn’t let me take them home, alas.

166 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:06:34pm
167 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:06:48pm

Moar bag of dicks: Image: il_570xN.442008329_ob4z.jpg

168 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:06:49pm

re: #163 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Because no such beast exists.

169 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:07:29pm

re: #168 Targetpractice

Because no such beast exists.

OH WAIT.

170 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:08:23pm

I closed the TweetDeck. I have had enough Derp.

171 Higgs Boson's Mate  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:12:43pm

re: #22 Vicious Babushka

So 47% of Detroit residents pay taxes. What’s their point? The rest of the time the conservaholes are braying that Utopia comes from paying no taxes. They are so busy spouting lies that they can’t keep them all straight.

And, BTW, if anyone doesn’t think that this is war to extermination I’d hope that the deluge of comments from the wingers have disabused them of that notion.

172 ObserverArt  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:12:46pm

re: #79 Decatur Deb

Done by a Mexican artist.

Yes. Maybe I should have been more clear. It’s a favorite piece of art about Detroit.

Add in all the politics both about the painting and him being Mexican and his background and it sure speaks to the issues of the day and today.

I see it as a modern Hieronymus Bosch Garden of Earthly Delights in a way. I love pieces of art that cause controversy all through their history. Also, like good literature, they stand the test of time and can speak to the viewer no matter where in that time they view it. That is an artists job well done.

173 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:13:57pm

Night Lizards. May the Deity of your choice smile down upon you and yours.

174 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:14:35pm

And now, here is the GOP governor who shut down Detroit:
Youtube Video

175 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:15:07pm

re: #137 Decatur Deb

The trouble is that a city must be a natural, organic outgrowth of it’s economic and cultural environment. It can’t be forced or saved. The thing that made Detroit great—the cheap car—is killing the cities. (Note that topography makes NYC somewhat immune to it. Still a subway/LIRR town.)

Ideally, government and business would work together, because what is in Detroit, still, is a massive number of experienced industrial workers. They could retrain for, say, carbon nano-tube production, which is one of the few industries we still have a chance at busting out as world leader on. They are one of the absolute necessary technologies for sustainable tech, so they’re green energy research and development. We should pour some money into basic science research on them and subsidize the hell out of some carbon nanotube companies.


But no, we have the GOP, who are a party clutching a sack of horsemeat, certain that the financial apocalypse is coming, and refusing to look to any sort of future for America. They’ve become a goddamn apocalyptic party.

When was the last time you heard anything positive from the GOP?

176 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:17:53pm

re: #175 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Ideally, government and business would work together, because what is in Detroit, still, is a massive number of experienced industrial workers. They could retrain for, say, carbon nano-tube production, which is one of the few industries we still have a chance at busting out as world leader on. They are one of the absolute necessary technologies for sustainable tech, so they’re green energy research and development. We should pour some money into basic science research on them and subsidize the hell out of some carbon nanotube companies.

But no, we have the GOP, who are a party clutching a sack of horsemeat, certain that the financial apocalypse is coming, and refusing to look to any sort of future for America. They’ve become a goddamn apocalyptic party.

When was the last time you heard anything positive from the GOP?

I would have used the term “doomsday cult,” because that’s basically what they’ve become, a party who’s absolutely certain that the end of America is on the horizon but the “faithful” can be saved if they sell their souls to Rand and chant “Fuck the poor!”

177 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:18:34pm

re: #174 Vicious Babushka

Coached by the same assholes who’ve coached Walker. “Broke.” Same language.

I really hope people are waking up and paying attention.

178 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:21:35pm

Detroit’s Beautiful, Horrible Decline: time.com

OK, so it’s pretty obvious that workers didn’t own those buildings…

179 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:21:47pm

re: #176 Targetpractice

I would have used the term “doomsday cult,” because that’s basically what they’ve become, a party who’s absolutely certain that the end of America is on the horizon but the “faithful” can be saved if they sell their souls to Rand and chant “Fuck the poor!”

And they don’t really even have a plan for that. They have the obvious hierarchy of wealth, they’ve stopped pretending that they don’t think that wealth should buy you a better version of everything including government. So what they’re really depending on is ‘temporarily embarrassed millionaire’ syndrome. All those people who think that they’re going to hit it big somehow, vote so as not to tax their future rich-as-fuck selves. The GOP is exploiting US ignorance about statistics while undermining US education, where kids learn stuff like statistics.

180 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:23:28pm

re: #178 Justanotherhuman

Detroit’s Beautiful, Horrible Decline: time.com

OK, so it’s pretty obvious that workers didn’t own those buildings…

The very first image on that slideshow, is a building owned by the BRIDGE TROLL.

So wingnuts please tell me again how TEH YOONYUNZ have forced all the poor, oppressed rich people to run away from Detroit in nothing but the shreds of their Armani tuxedos.

181 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:27:08pm
182 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:27:19pm
183 bubba zanetti  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:29:39pm

Poverty has moved to the suburbs

Between 2000 and 2010 the number of people living below the federal poverty line ($22,314 for a family of four in 2010) in the suburbs grew by 53%, compared with just 23% in cities. In 2010 roughly 15.3m poor people lived in the suburbs, compared with 12.8m in cities (see chart).

economist.com

184 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:29:59pm

If any conservative comes up with an imaginative proposal to bring back Detroit without making it a coal ash dump or a minimum wage mecca, I’m all ears.

185 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:30:03pm

re: #179 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And they don’t really even have a plan for that. They have the obvious hierarchy of wealth, they’ve stopped pretending that they don’t think that wealth should buy you a better version of everything including government. So what they’re really depending on is ‘temporarily embarrassed millionaire’ syndrome. All those people who think that they’re going to hit it big somehow, vote so as not to tax their future rich-as-fuck selves. The GOP is exploiting US ignorance about statistics while undermining US education, where kids learn stuff like statistics.

I’d argue it’s not that the base thinks they’re all future millionaires so much as having spent decades drinking deep of the GOP kool-aid that the only reason they’re not all independently wealthy is because being expected to pay for all the government services they avail themselves of every day is “socialist.” That the “free market,” shorn of government interference, would give them the same services at a huge discount and do it all even better.

There, of course, being no such precedent in world history, but damned if they don’t like to believe in this Randian paradise that can be theirs if they just junk the whole social contract that America was built upon.

186 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:30:44pm
187 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:31:00pm

re: #101 jamesfirecat

One every 63 minutes actually, not quite one an hour saddly. Though Ford did make more Tanks than all of Italy Durring WW2.

(Facts taken here and there from “Why the Allies Won” a boo I really need to order off amazon at some point since I can so rarely find it in libraries these days.)

I’ve got that one. Very good book.

Basically the Allies kept their did better at war production and despite differences of opinion managed to stay focused on their goals and work together. The Axis, especially Germany, was a maze of corruption and often powerful people were more focused on destroying their political enemies than winning the war.

Their hideous racism didn’t help at all.

188 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:34:38pm

Hell, one wingnut likes to meet every argument about how much of a fucking racket health insurance these days is with scoffs about “government interference.” He can’t articulate a coherent argument because this is shit that’s been drilled into his head for years by the GOP, who are regurgitating it verbatim from health insurance execs who spend millions annually on lobbying activities.

189 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:36:32pm

Upstate New York has a lot of faded cities, but they’re still livable, and have quite a bit of local culture. But then again, their governor isn’t in the business of watching cities turn into total dumps on his watch.

It’s actually kind of surreal to watch people trying to punish a city on twitter.

190 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:37:08pm

re: #186 Gus

[Embedded content]

That’s just plain creepy.

191 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:38:00pm

re: #189 dragonath

Upstate New York has a lot of faded cities, but they’re still livable, and have quite a bit of local culture. But then again, their governor isn’t in the business of watching cities turn into total dumps on his watch.

It’s actually kind of surreal to watch people trying to punish a city on twitter.

Wonder how many of them that live in these “conservative utopias” have no idea that their own local government is up to its neck in shady deals and bad loans and is likewise a ticking timebomb.

192 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:40:16pm

re: #190 HappyWarrior

That’s just plain creepy.

193 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:40:59pm

re: #192 Gus

[Embedded content]

Shit dude I was going to work on the recumbent tonight. Don’t make me go to the whiskey bottle early.

194 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:41:25pm

re: #191 Targetpractice

Wonder how many of them that live in these “conservative utopias” have no idea that their own local government is up to its neck in shady deals and bad loans and is likewise a ticking timebomb.

How many of them live in “conservative utopias” that either directly is sustained by grants, subsidies, or pork, or indirectly by proximity to a facility or industry maintained by government cash…prisons, military bases, etc.

195 BroncD  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:41:55pm

It’s nice to see conservatives are so comfortable writing tweets in an “Amos n’ Andy”-style voice.
Maybe Rachel Jeantel told them it was OK to do that.

196 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:42:33pm

re: #189 dragonath

Upstate New York has a lot of faded cities, but they’re still livable, and have quite a bit of local culture. But then again, their governor isn’t in the business of watching cities turn into total dumps on his watch.

It’s actually kind of surreal to watch people trying to punish a city on twitter.

I think it’s pretty pathetic. They seem to be taking glee because Obama said he wouldn’t let Detroit go bankrupt. Nevermind that he was talking about the automobile industry. But the thing is, these people care more about their hatred of Obama than people and that’s sad. I may have hated Bush but the country’s welfare was more important than my hatred of the man. For the idiots we see, the hatred of Obama is everything to them.

197 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:43:00pm

re: #189 dragonath

Upstate New York has a lot of faded cities, but they’re still livable, and have quite a bit of local culture. But then again, their governor isn’t in the business of watching cities turn into total dumps on his watch.

It’s actually kind of surreal to watch people trying to punish a city on twitter.

Can you imagine the horror of the wingnuts if it was Des Moines or Salt Lake City?

198 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:44:07pm

re: #194 The Ghost of a Flea

How many of them live in “conservative utopias” that either directly is sustained by grants, subsidies, or pork, or indirectly by proximity to a facility or industry maintained by government cash…prisons, military bases, etc.

Hell, most of Hampton Roads would dry up in 5 years or less if the Navy moved out of the state. I’m actually beginning to worry I won’t have a job much longer because local spending has crashed with the double whammy of the Great Recession and now the Sequester.

199 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:44:09pm
200 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:44:56pm

tampabay.com
Hey look it’s Marco Rubio trying to get the good graces of the Republican base back by holding up black judicial nominees.

201 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:45:51pm

re: #199 Gus

[Embedded content]

What kind of fuckery is that tiny dick engaged in now?

202 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:45:51pm

re: #189 dragonath

It’s actually kind of surreal to watch people trying to punish a city on twitter.

Yep. Have you witnessed people posting salaries, addresses, and contact info of people you know on local boards because they’re teachers?

How about physical threats against families because they(the parents) want to get both Republicans and Democrats on a local level to hash out their differences?

203 funky chicken  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:46:05pm

Kid A had this on the previous thread, and I wanted to quote it and answer, not that Dim Jim would accept my theory:

From Dim Jim’s site. Presented without comment:

I want someone to explain to me why some of the most desirable places to live in America are run by liberals. Compare the following list of cities:

1. Detroit
2. Camden
3. Newark
4. Austin
5. Madison
6. Boulder

These six cities are under the control of the Democrat party. Yet, the first three are cesspools, and the last three are prosperous. What fundamentally differentiates the first three from the last three? Think hard before responding.

First, is all of Newark terrible? I dunno—we lived in south Jersey for a few years and I know there are nasty parts of Newark, but the whole thing? Most of Camden is truly awful, I’ll give him that. Now here’s my answer—the first three places had economies built largely upon industry, particularly manufacturing and other heavy industry. That sector of the economy has suffered terribly. The last three places have economies based upon government schools—socialist institutions if you will.

204 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:46:07pm

re: #189 dragonath

I’ve got tons of friends and acquaintances in the Finger Lakes region from Buffalo to Syracuse and points in between.

Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse all suffer because of the loss of major corporations - carmakers and steel in Buffalo, Kodak, Xerox and Bausch and Lomb in Rochester, but Rochester particularly has been able to reinvent itself in medical tech, digital imaging, and health care. Buffalo has struggled more, but the state hasn’t written off these cities despite the problems.

It’s notable that the state has sought to make sure that the cities remain solvent, rather than refusing to raise taxes and make sure that the cities can meet their obligations.

Michigan’s political leaders have made the conscious decision to slash and burn the Detroit budget, refusing to fix the budget without going through the bankruptcy process.

205 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:46:18pm

re: #200 HappyWarrior

tampabay.com
Hey look it’s Marco Rubio trying to get the good graces of the Republican base back by holding up black judicial nominees.

Rubio’s future is pretty much sunk in the current GOP. There’s actually efforts down in Florida, totally unconstitutional ones, to have him recalled from office. Don’t be surprised if he’s primaried out of office next go around.

206 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:46:43pm

re: #189 dragonath

Again, those people are sociopaths.

207 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:46:54pm

Evening Lizardim from the scorching hot wild north country. The heat wave is due to break soon, with thunderstorms promised to arrive overnight. My thoughts go out to the City of Detroit; it has got to seriously suck for her proud people right now. And of course, the wingnuts have it all wrong. The Mrs. Fish couldn’t even understand how people could be that wrong. I told her that they were doing it intentionally and she just shook her head. How go things among the lizardfolk?

208 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:47:28pm
209 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:47:48pm

re: #205 Targetpractice

Rubio’s future is pretty much sunk in the current GOP. There’s actually efforts down in Florida, totally unconstitutional ones, to have him recalled from office. Don’t be surprised if he’s primaried out of office next go around.

After Rubio himself beat Charlie Crist, nothing would shock me.

210 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:48:19pm

re: #199 Gus

Most people in the world won’t listen to a perverted Pedophile. Which is exactly what Nugent is.

211 Belafon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:48:33pm

re: #203 funky chicken

Where’s he getting the idea that these are desirable places to live?

212 darthstar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:50:08pm

Okay…I’ve been following the Iron Sheik on twitter for two days now, and I have to say, this man has taken retiring from wrestling gracefully to a new high.

213 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:50:13pm

re: #208 Gus

[Embedded content]

The alternative was feeling to Canada.

Canada.

214 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:50:24pm

73°F

215 AlexRogan  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:51:09pm

re: #107 Lawrence Schmerel

The largest, but not the first.

The interwebs say there has been 36 municipal bankruptcy filings since January 2010, including the following eight cities and localities:
— City of Detroit
— City of San Bernardino, Calif.
— Town of Mammoth Lakes, Calf. (Dismissed)
— City of Stockton, Calif.
— Jefferson County, Ala.
— City of Harrisburg, Pa. (Dismissed)
— City of Central Falls, R.I.
— Boise County, Idaho (Dismissed)

I don’t recall the wingers laughing about Jefferson County, Alabama, deep in the heart of Mother Dixie.

They tried to blame the bankruptcy on the Democratic city administration of Birmingham, even though the entire county voted at-large for the commisioners who got them into the whole sewer system upgrade/bonds mess.

216 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:51:11pm
217 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:52:09pm

re: #216 Gus

[Embedded content]

Mitt Romney’s pretty fond of him too IIRC. I know Steve Stockman is enough that he made him his SOTU guest.

218 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:52:20pm
219 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:52:43pm

re: #204 lawhawk

I’ve got tons of friends and acquaintances in the Finger Lakes region from Buffalo to Syracuse and points in between.

Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse all suffer because of the loss of major corporations - carmakers and steel in Buffalo, Kodak, Xerox and Bausch and Lomb in Rochester, but Rochester particularly has been able to reinvent itself in medical tech, digital imaging, and health care. Buffalo has struggled more, but the state hasn’t written off these cities despite the problems.

It’s notable that the state has sought to make sure that the cities remain solvent, rather than refusing to raise taxes and make sure that the cities can meet their obligations.

Michigan’s political leaders have made the conscious decision to slash and burn the Detroit budget, refusing to fix the budget without going through the bankruptcy process.

That’s because Detroit has, in the GOP’s eyes, become a symbol of the “failure” of liberal policies. Considering Snyder’s administration to date, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that the state GOP seem to relish the idea of dragging Detroit through the mud as much as possible as “punishment.” And I have no doubt there’s ulterior motives as well, as Snyder’s handpicked dictator has been selling off any public property not nailed down in the Detroit city limits.

220 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:53:28pm

re: #203 funky chicken

Newark is definitely improved from where it was just a few years ago. Businesses are coming back, they’ve got a great and vibrant community in the Ironbound, great cultural institutions like NJPAC, the Newark Museum, and the Prudential Center is a boon to local businesses.

Camden is a cesspool - many of the same problems with Detroit - declining tax base, a thoroughly corrupt political class, and people avoid Camden when they could live in Philly or the surrounding suburbs. That’s despite efforts to build a tourist destination (Adventure Aquarium and the USS New Jersey), and a big hospital center - Cooper. Industrial decay doesn’t begin to cover the mess that is Camden.

Austin and Madison benefit from being the state capital of their respective states (plus being major education hubs). Boulder is a big college town, plus is a tourist destination (as is Austin).

221 darthstar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:53:30pm

re: #218 Gus
Ted Nugent makes the Iron Sheik look sane by comparison.

222 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:53:36pm

And one of my friend’s husband (boy, that’s a smack to my self-esteem) has liked the 51st State Initiative on FB. The one that wants to have several Eastern Colorado Counties secede to form the state of Dipshit.

The chance of anyone doing anything about it is about the chance of snow in hell. It’s so strange that Conservatives expect Liberals to tolerate them in power, but not the other way around.

223 funky chicken  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:54:52pm

re: #211 Belafon

Austin, Madison and Boulder are nice places even though Austin is too hot for my taste. I’m pretty sure it’s a dog whistle question and Hoft thinks he’s quite clever for asking it.

224 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:55:12pm

I actually flipped the bird at Nugent back around 1980. Some concert I was dragged too. Couldn’t stand his freaking “music.” Something about him too that was a complete turn-off.

225 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:55:50pm

re: #222 ProTARDISLiberal

Not to mention those areas are already economically on a wire, with unemployment being about 2% higher than the Denver Metro region.

Or to put it bluntly, they are being subsidized by the Liberal areas, and being very ungracious about it.

226 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:55:55pm

I thought “sequestered” meant sequestered. Obviously, in FL it doesn’t.

Sequestered Zimmerman trial jurors had alone time with family during trial

wftv.com

Actually, it was “guests”.

227 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:56:00pm

re: #222 ProTARDISLiberal

And one of my friend’s husband (boy, that’s a smack to my self-esteem) has liked the 51st State Initiative on FB. The one that wants to have several Eastern Colorado Counties secede to form the state of Dipshit.

The chance of anyone doing anything about it is about the chance of snow in hell. It’s so strange that Conservatives expect Liberals to tolerate them in power, but not the other way around.

The 51st state is Puerto Rico, anyway. Or at least, once Congress gets around to initiating the process.

228 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:57:41pm

re: #216 Gus

[Embedded content]

Ted Nugent is a metonym for the religious wingnut: he finds Jesus and is forgiven for the sins that Jesus wasn’t very concerned about, like drinking and sex, then procedes to commit the acts Jesus was very concerned about—being hateful, uncharitable, and callous—in the name of his Savior.

229 Belafon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:57:57pm

re: #223 funky chicken

Yeah, my answer to his question would be: The last three are supported by government money, and the first three are names he just pulled out of his ass.

230 funky chicken  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:58:11pm

re: #220 lawhawk

So, public (socialism!) universities and state (omg, guvmint) capitals bring economic benefits? No way.

231 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:58:30pm

re: #224 Gus

I actually flipped the bird at Nugent back around 1980. Some concert I was dragged too. Couldn’t stand his freaking “music.” Something about him too that was a complete turn-off.

Ha, awesome man.I really haven’t heard a lot of his music but he’s a really obnoxious jerk. Goes around calling people who disagree with him Nazis but he engages in some of the biggest dehumanizing rhetoric I’ve ever seen when he calls people vermin, parasite, etc.

232 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:58:35pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I may have hated Bush but the country’s welfare was more important than my hatred of the man. For the idiots we see, the hatred of Obama is everything to them.

It’s the obvious question, but how does this country stay strong when it’s continually spiting it’s own face?

233 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:59:21pm

re: #227 thedopefishlives

Proof point #2,089 that Boehner is one of the worst Speakers of the House in history.

Senate I think could pass this no sweat. House? Unlikely, because Tea Party Caucus (Or, as I like to call them, the KKK Caucus.) will fuck that up.

234 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:59:27pm

re: #230 funky chicken

So, public (socialism!) universities and state (omg, guvmint) capitals bring economic benefits? No way.

Somehow I don’t think that was what DimJim was thinking of but that was my first thought too. Those are all college towns whether the major public university in said state is located. But it was obvious to me that DimJim was going with the racial angle.

235 darthstar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 7:59:56pm
236 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:00:00pm

re: #232 dragonath

It’s the obvious question, but how does this country stay strong when it’s continually spiting it’s own face?

I don’t know. But if we can overcome the KKK in the 20’s, we can overcome Derp here in the 10’s.

237 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:00:33pm

re: #233 ProTARDISLiberal

Proof point #2,089 that Boehner is one of the worst Speakers of the House in history.

Senate I think could pass this no sweat. House? Unlikely, because Tea Party Caucus (Or, as I like to call them, the KKK Caucus.) will fuck that up.

But I thought the Tea Partiers were all about re-branding. This would be the perfect opportunity for them to show their non-racist colors.

*cough*

238 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:00:48pm

re: #231 HappyWarrior

Ha, awesome man.I really haven’t heard a lot of his music but he’s a really obnoxious jerk. Goes around calling people who disagree with him Nazis but he engages in some of the biggest dehumanizing rhetoric I’ve ever seen when he calls people vermin, parasite, etc.

Same old boring school of guitar riffs. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Etc.

239 funky chicken  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:01:32pm

re: #204 lawhawk

I’ve got tons of friends and acquaintances in the Finger Lakes region from Buffalo to Syracuse and points in between.

Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse all suffer because of the loss of major corporations - carmakers and steel in Buffalo, Kodak, Xerox and Bausch and Lomb in Rochester, but Rochester particularly has been able to reinvent itself in medical tech, digital imaging, and health care. Buffalo has struggled more, but the state hasn’t written off these cities despite the problems.

So Rochester isn’t scary? My daughter really likes University of Rochester and has spoken with their admin folks but I vetoed it because of the crime stats.

240 alpuz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:01:44pm

re: #189 dragonath

What’s even more ‘surreal’ is watching people you’ve respected and known for years follow this path.

Parents, relatives, parents of your kids’s friends, neighbors, some asshole yelling at the mailman outside your front door(yes, it happened)… that’s the surreal part. Especially when it’s screeched into your face from a foot away. Whoodathunk?

good night.

241 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:01:46pm

re: #238 Gus

Same old boring school of guitar riffs. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Etc.

Yeah the few bits I’ve heard are unimpressive. That he’s unlikable is the proverbial icing on the cake.

242 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:01:58pm

re: #234 HappyWarrior

Somehow I don’t think that was what DimJim was thinking of but that was my first thought too. Those are all college towns whether the major public university in said state is located. But it was obvious to me that DimJim was going with the racial angle.

Yup

243 darthstar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:03:12pm

Okay…Bob Newhart is appearing as Professor Proton on The Big Bang Theory. Time to close the lid on my computer and focus.

244 HoosierHoops  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:04:34pm

The Situation about Detroit is not one to be gloating over..Why did the City fail? I think many are too quick to just assign blame as a political point and self- justification.
There was a period of time when Detroit was the jewel of America..The Motor City..
The area was just fucking full of cash..The money was flowing like wine and Detroit did whatever any big city would do..They built a social infrastructure helping the poor..A well paid middle class with benefits..Mansions were built by the rich with great education.
Man..Detroit built skyscrapers and sports venues All those things we expect any great city should do. And the cash kept rolling in..And everybody over reached with it.
Political leaders, Unions.. right down to citizens..Thus this is a cautionary tale.
We all do it..Everyone..It’s human nature..As soon as I would pull in some big paychecks I’d go out and buy shit..We all do it..Bigger house, Car, TV stuff like that..
Credit is easy and times are good..
It is a cautionary tale..
It is heartbreaking to see a city crumble before my eyes..There is no joy or glee.

245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:05:28pm

re: #238 Gus

Same old boring school of guitar riffs. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Etc.

The Pixies rule because they are the anti-Nugent.

Youtube Video

246 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:05:33pm

re: #244 HoosierHoops

The Situation about Detroit is not one to be gloating over..Why did the City fail? I think many are too quick to just assign blame as a political point and self- justification.
There was a period of time when Detroit was the jewel of America..The Motor City..
The area was just fucking full of cash..The money was flowing like wine and Detroit did whatever any big city would do..They built a social infrastructure helping the poor..A well paid middle class with benefits..Mansions were built by the rich with great education.
Man..Detroit built skyscrapers and sports venues All those things we expect any great city should do. And the cash kept rolling in..And everybody over reached with it.
Political leaders, Unions.. right down to citizens..Thus this is a cautionary tale.
We all do it..Everyone..It’s human nature..As soon as I would pull in some big paychecks I’d go out and buy shit..We all do it..Bigger house, Car, TV stuff like that..
Credit is easy and times are good..
It is a cautionary tale..
It is heartbreaking to see a city crumble before my eyes..There is no joy or glee.

It was actually the first place my Dad’s folks lived after my grandfather started working for the Feds following their marriage. I have a little bit of a soft spot for Detroit because of that fact.

247 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:07:54pm

re: #220 lawhawk

Camden gets bad press, but from what I’ve seen, it’s paradise compared to Gary, Indiana. Both those towns are like cross-border satellites of greater cities.

248 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:08:32pm

re: #240 alpuz

What’s even more ‘surreal’ is watching people you’ve respected and known for years follow this path.

Parents, relatives, parents of your kids’s friends, neighbors, some asshole yelling at the mailman outside your front door(yes, it happened)… that’s the surreal part. Especially when it’s screeched into your face from a foot away. Whoodathunk?

good night.

It is sad. People you thought were reasonable people who now go ballistic at a health care plan once implemented on the state level by Mitt Romney. Maybe they were always nutty and it was overlooked but I do think Obama’s election brought out the worst in some of our fellow Americans. Like it’s not a hatred of Obama’s policies, it’s an outright hatred of him and his whole family. Not only attacks on him or even Michelle but the girls and his deceased parents.

249 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:09:11pm

re: #245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The Pixies rule because they are the anti-Nugent.

[Embedded content]

I was a young man then.

250 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:09:25pm

re: #247 dragonath

Camden gets bad press, but from what I’ve seen, it’s paradise compared to Gary, Indiana. Both those towns are like cross-border satellites of greater cities.

I went into Gary once. My mom had a specialist’s appointment there. She refused to go alone and Dad was on a business trip. It is not a happy place.

251 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:10:40pm

re: #222 ProTARDISLiberal

Should also note that me and a Muslim Friend in Denver talked last week on finding somebody, and he reckons I may need to look out of the area for someone.

Because I am looking for a Strong-Willed Muslimah about my age (±2-3 years). And his experience has been that the Denver Area is much, much more conservative than OKC.

I seem to have gotten myself in a situation here. But I believe in the 5 Pillars of Islam with all my heart, so I wouldn’t have it any other way.

252 Kragar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:12:08pm

So, when does OCP announce they’re taking over?

253 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:12:25pm

It gets a bad rep but Baltimore has its charms.

254 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:15:24pm

Breaking. I just agreed with Max Blumenthal.

255 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:15:28pm

re: #245 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The Pixies rule because they are the anti-Nugent.

[Embedded content]

The Pixies were ok.

But the real deal was The Replacements, Husker Du, X, Black Flag, Suicide Commandos, Urban Guerrillas …

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

256 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:15:50pm
257 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:16:35pm

re: #252 Kragar

So, when does OCP announce they’re taking over?

As soon as they get approval for Delta City.

258 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:16:37pm

There was probably a lot of “no wing” there too.

259 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:17:10pm

re: #253 HappyWarrior

The closest I’ve been to Baltimore is Glen Burnie, where an aunt lived, although the train stopped in Baltimore.

260 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:18:01pm

re: #250 thedopefishlives

Even the interstate there is tricky to drive. When I last drove there, the road was in construction. The shoulders were blocked by jersey barriers, and the roadway veered back and forth across the center lines. Pretty hair raising stuff when you’re driving at 60mph and there’s a tractor trailer in the other lane.

Your reward for all that is sitting in traffic for half an hour at the state line because the Republican governor sold the toll booths to a foreign multinational and people are trying to jam sweaty $20 bills into a vending machine style bill collector.

Did I mention this is next to a smelly steel mill?

261 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:19:09pm

Sorry to go off on personal tangent.

My feelings on this now.

262 Kragar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:19:37pm

re: #255 William Barnett-Lewis

The Pixies were ok.

But the real deal was The Replacements, Husker Du, X, Black Flag, Suicide Commandos, Urban Guerrillas …

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Here you go.

Youtube Video

263 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:20:39pm

I’m having difficulty finding the Elizabeth Warren vs Jim Cramer video. All the links are copyright removed by NBC.

I can’t even find it on CNBC.

Weird.

264 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:23:36pm

Folks these days never stop and consider how many cities are sitting one major decision away from becoming ghost towns. Case in point, the local news stations have talked for months now off and on about the moving of one of the carriers from NAS Norfolk to NAS Mayport in Florida. The point of the talk is the millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs that the Navy spends on that carrier going with it to Florida.

You want to see Virginia Beach become a ghost town in under a decade? Shut down NAS Oceana. When it’s all said and done, the only portions of the city left will all be located down at the Oceanfront, just like it was in the 50s.

265 Single-handed sailor  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:24:47pm

re: #263 BigPapa

I’m having difficulty finding the Elizabeth Warren vs Jim Cramer video. All the links are copyright removed by NBC.

I can’t even find it on CNBC.

Weird.


here you go

266 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:25:21pm

re: #263 BigPapa

I’m having difficulty finding the Elizabeth Warren vs Jim Cramer video. All the links are copyright removed by NBC.

I can’t even find it on CNBC.

Weird.

That’s because they aren’t in the video together.

There’s a video of Warren on CNBC shooting down every bullshit objection raised by the talking heads.

Youtube Video

And there’s Cramer being an ass about it.

267 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:25:25pm

re: #265 Single-handed sailor

Thanks, I’m watching it now. Thought that Jim Cramer was in the video.

268 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:26:11pm

Website for the kids who are gently occupying the FL Capitol. Want to talk about hoodies or something.

dreamdefenders.org

269 Kragar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:27:16pm

re: #264 Targetpractice

Folks these days never stop and consider how many cities are sitting one major decision away from becoming ghost towns. Case in point, the local news stations have talked for months now off and on about the moving of one of the carriers from NAS Norfolk to NAS Mayport in Florida. The point of the talk is the millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs that the Navy spends on that carrier going with it to Florida.

You want to see Virginia Beach become a ghost town in under a decade? Shut down NAS Oceana. When it’s all said and done, the only portions of the city left will all be located down at the Oceanfront, just like it was in the 50s.

Puerto Rico tried for years to get their bases closed, and when their wish came true, they wondered where their economy went.

270 AlexRogan  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:28:02pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Birmingham AL. Went bankrupt over a spectacularly corrupt Sewer/water contract involving the major WS banks and the State administration.

Though, to be fair, it was the Jefferson County government that went bankrupt, NOT the Birmingham city government; two separate entities, for those not aware.

271 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:28:31pm

re: #189 dragonath

Upstate New York has a lot of faded cities, but they’re still livable, and have quite a bit of local culture. But then again, their governor isn’t in the business of watching cities turn into total dumps on his watch.

It’s actually kind of surreal to watch people trying to punish a city on twitter.

Detroit was in dire straights long before the current governor took office; He’s just the guy who is actually doing something about it.

Bankruptcy is a bad thing, but sometimes filing for it is the only functional thing to do. Detroit cannot pay its pension obligations anymore, and its beyond the point where a short-to-mid term rescue plan by the state of Michigan could resolve that problem. Any state solution would be a long-term series of expensive transfer payments, which would basically see the rest of the state paying Detroit’s bills. There is no appetite for that in the rest of Michigan. Thus filing Chapter 9 is the only real option for the Motor City. What happens next is going to be very unpleasant for city creditors and retirees (and some state or federal measures may be viable to reduce the impact on the latter), but it does offer the city the chance to reduce its debts to a level it can pay.

272 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:29:00pm

Image: 46cb9f3d45d0f6f2f45224c230a6939f.jpg

273 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:30:54pm

re: #270 AlexRogan

Though, to be fair, it was the Jefferson County government that went bankrupt, NOT the Birmingham city government; two separate entities, for those not aware.

City dog wags the county tail. In fact the grief extends into the bedroom suburbs in St. Claire county, where Daughter Two’s sewer/water more than doubled.

274 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:31:06pm

re: #271 Dark_Falcon

Detroit was in dire straights long before the current governor took office; He’s just the guy who is actually doing something about it.

Bankruptcy is a bad thing, but sometimes filing for it is the only functional thing to do. Detroit cannot pay its pension obligations anymore, and its beyond the point where a short-to-mid term rescue plan by the state of Michigan could resolve that problem. Any state solution would be a long-term series of expensive transfer payments, which would basically see the rest of the state paying Detroit’s bills. There is no appetite for that in the rest of Michigan. Thus filing Chapter 9 is the only real option for the Motor City. What happens next is going to be very unpleasant for city creditors and retirees (and some state or federal measures may be viable to reduce the impact on the latter), but it does offer the city the chance to reduce its debts to a level it can pay.

By basically telling the people who worked their asses off during the good times “Sorry Gramps, but the corrupt assholes who came before us screwed the city over, so you’ve got to pay the bill.”

275 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:31:18pm
276 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:32:03pm

re: #269 Kragar

To be fair to them, they had a live-fire range that was creating trouble, and causing death.

I would rather move a carrier to Puerto Rico, after signing a promise of Stimulus Spending and no damn live fire, than to Florida. Don’t they already have a carrier at Mayport?

277 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:37:53pm

re: #276 ProTARDISLiberal

To be fair to them, they had a live-fire range that was creating trouble, and causing death.

I would rather move a carrier to Puerto Rico, after signing a promise of Stimulus Spending and no damn live fire, than to Florida. Don’t they already have a carrier at Mayport?

It’s being retired. And without a carrier, there’s really no point to keeping Mayport open. So Florida lobbied for the Navy to spend millions installing new equipment and dredging the waters deeper so that Mayport can support a nuclear carrier.

278 AlexRogan  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:37:57pm

re: #257 Targetpractice

As soon as they get approval for Delta City.

Isn’t that sort of that the angle of the ‘Commonwealth of Belle Isle’ folks?

279 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:45:38pm

re: #274 Targetpractice

By basically telling the people who worked their asses off during the good times “Sorry Gramps, but the corrupt assholes who ran Detroit for decades screwed the city over, and you’ve got to pay part of the bill. That isn’t fair, I know, but the union you worked under did sign contracts for ‘pension sweeteners’ that it should have know weren’t sustainable in the long term. My constituents in other parts of the state did not cause this problem and there’s a limit to what they are willing to contribute to its solution. I’ll my best to keep things livable for you, but the fact remains filing bankruptcy really is the only way for Detroit to survive.”

280 palomino  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:46:49pm

These are the kind of things that make me think we’ve entered into a bloodless civil war in America. The country has become so big, diverse and polarized that merely effectively governing it has become nearly impossible. The near consensus that existed back in the 1930s, for example, is gone. At that time the country had only 100 million people and was 95% white and 95% Christian, and women really had little say in politics. That’s all changed drastically in the decades since.

Let’s face it: much of the reason for happiness over Detroit’s woes is that conservative whites feel threatened and just don’t care as much about people unlike themselves (whether non-white, non-Christian, gay, whatever).

I didn’t jump for joy today when I read yet another study showing that West Virginia and Kentucky have the highest preventable disease and obesity rates, and shortest life spans in America. But if I truly felt that the American way of life was threatened by those places (as baggers do regarding cities like Detroit), maybe I’d count that as a perverse victory for my side.

And remember, for today’s right wing reactionaries, this isn’t just about Detroit. The strongest, most diverse progressive outposts are medium to large cities, mostly outside the South. So you can add Chicago, NYC, DC, Boston, San Fran, L.A., even Austin to the list of places the gop would also like to see crash and burn. It’s not a real civil war, but a cultural one that shows no signs of abating soon.

281 Gus  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:50:37pm

72°F Feels nice.

282 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:51:22pm

re: #277 Targetpractice

Fiscally irresponsible, that.

Get rid of that base.

re: #280 palomino

No, but they are on the edge of a Demographic Cliff. The best thing we can do is help push them off of it but letting the floodgates open immigration-wise.

Allowing in .5% of the US pop per year (~1.55 Million) would over 20 years result in an additional 31 Million Americans (or to put it another way, Canada), more than enough to wash out the Ignorant Dumbasses in each and every red state.

283 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:52:01pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

So the only option to save Detroit is for the Michigan Republican Party to appoint a guy who answers to them alone and has virtually no checks on his power once the city is drug into bankruptcy court to sell off the city to the highest bidder while raiding pension funds in direct violation of the state’s constitution?

284 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:52:14pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

So it is the unions problem that the city effectively negotiates in bad faith when it agreed to paying those union members amounts of money it could not afford?

285 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:55:02pm

re: #284 jamesfirecat

So it is the unions problem that the city effectively negotiates in bad faith when it agreed to paying those union members amounts of money it could not afford?

In part, yes. The unions should have kept a demand for a pay increase, perhaps making the request smaller. But they should have kept an eye on the long term and insisted the city keep a sustainable course.

286 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:57:16pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

In part, yes. The unions should have kept a demand for a pay increase, perhaps making the request smaller. But they should have kept an eye on the long term and insisted the city keep a sustainable course.

How would you feel if a company was doing its workers, and just random people who worked for it they don’t even have to be in a union?


Your statements reak of blaming the victim to me DF.

287 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:58:17pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

They only became unsustainable when the GOP sold out the economy via off-shoring. The boys who signed for the employers knew what they were doing as well. They should not be allowed to steal from pensions while keeping their golden parachutes.

288 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 8:59:23pm

re: #286 jamesfirecat

Your statements reak of blaming the victim to me DF.

QFT.

289 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:00:57pm

re: #287 William Barnett-Lewis

They only became unsustainable when the GOP sold out the economy via off-shoring. The boys who signed for the employers knew what they were doing as well. They should not be allowed to steal from pensions while keeping their golden parachutes.

They’re raiding the pensions, but dare not speak of raising taxes on the 1% to help cover the costs. Why? Because the 1% keep whispering in their ear that if they feel the pinch, they’re leaving.

290 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:03:18pm

re: #286 jamesfirecat

How would you feel if a company was doing its workers, and just random people who worked for it they don’t even have to be in a union?

Your statements reak of blaming the victim to me DF.

It’s not the retirees fault, really, since it was the job of the city government not the unions to manage Detroit’s finances. But it is the retirees’ problem, since the entity that owes them money doesn’t have it and cannot on its own get it.

291 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:03:21pm

re: #280 palomino

We haven’t even reaped the whirlwind yet. What happens when this generation grows old?

292 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:05:44pm

re: #291 dragonath

We haven’t even reaped the whirlwind yet. What happens when this generation grows old?

The 1% will demand that they die quietly and without anything they were promised. And their children and grandchildren will be serfs to keep the 1% happy.

293 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:06:26pm

re: #287 William Barnett-Lewis

Who sold what out? Detroit didn’t lose to off shoring; It lost to bad decisions by the US automotive industry that cost it market share and even more to corrupt and incompetent city government.

It was not Republicans who ran Detroit into the group. The city may call its mayor ‘non-partisan’ but it remains a Democratic stronghold.

294 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:07:38pm

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

It’s not the retirees fault, really, since it was the job of the city government not the unions to manage Detroit’s finances. But it is the retirees’ problem, since the entity that owes them money doesn’t have it and cannot on its own get it.

Then don’t say

“The unions should have kept a demand for a pay increase, perhaps making the request smaller”

It sure sounds ike you are saying they are at least in part at fault for what has just happened.

Once again, it is the cities fault that they agreed to demands they could not sustain, not the unions for asking for that amount.

295 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:09:54pm

re: #294 jamesfirecat

Then don’t say

“The unions should have kept a demand for a pay increase, perhaps making the request smaller”

It sure sounds ike you are saying they are at least in part at fault for what has just happened.

Once again, it is the cities fault that they agreed to demands they could not sustain, not the unions for asking for that amount.

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

296 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:10:15pm

re: #290 Dark_Falcon

Clearly the solution to these problems is never give the workers any kind of benefits at all, huh?

297 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:11:56pm

re: #296 dragonath

Clearly the solution to these problems is never give the workers any kind of benefits at all, huh?

There will be pie in the sky when they die.

298 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:12:07pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

Wouldn’t that apply to both sides of this agreement? Negotiations and contracts usually require a minimum of two opposing sides.

299 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:12:45pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

Just living the American dream.

300 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:13:59pm

re: #299 dragonath

Just living the American dream.

Middle-class pay, benefits, and pensions that will sustain them in their twilight years. Who needs that in modern America? Take your bowl of rice and fish heads and like it!

///

301 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:14:52pm

re: #298 Targetpractice

Wouldn’t that apply to both sides of this agreement? Negotiations and contracts usually require a minimum of two opposing sides.

It surely would. I do not dispute that at all.

302 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:15:34pm

re: #300 Targetpractice

Middle-class pay, benefits, and pensions that will sustain them in their twilight years. Who needs that in modern America? Take your bowl of rice and fish heads and like it!

///

Nguyen over there will weld for half as many fish heads.

303 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:15:53pm

re: #296 dragonath

I did not say or imply that.

304 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:16:43pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

No. There was no reason to believe, other than GOP greed, that there was anything “unsustainable” about the negotiation demands of the unions. And the makers & governments agreed. Only when the greedy got tired of paying their fair share did this fantasy of “unsustainable” shows up. It’s as fake as the austerity that has failed every time it’s used.

When historians look back to the destruction of America they will point to the inability to collect taxes from those who can pay them and how the nation attempted to collect that needed revenue from those who couldn’t pay it.

And they’ll point out that it was just like how Rome died.

305 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:29:26pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

Sorry no.

You ask for amount X which may sound implausible or impossible and expect to negotiate down from it. If the other person agrees to amount X instead of say .75X what are you going to do say “Seriously dude, I don’t think you can afford to pay me that?”

There is no shame in asking for as much and more than you think your/your union workers work is worth.

306 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:29:32pm

re: #303 Dark_Falcon

I did not say or imply that.

Tell me then, do you think it’s good for business to deny a pension to a steelworker, an automobile worker, or a municipal worker because it was their lot in life to work for the city government?

What’s your free market solution?

307 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:30:28pm

re: #304 William Barnett-Lewis

William, perhaps you are mistaking what I am referring to: In this case I am referring specifically to unions contracting with the city of Detroit, not labor unions in general. It was not greed that brought Detroit low, it was incompetence, dishonesty, and an unwillingness to plan for the future.

308 Kragar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:30:30pm

“You fucked up; you trusted us” really isn’t that great an excuse.

309 Belafon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:32:47pm

re: #256 Gus

I like Max’s background picture: A factory with cheap labor making Guy Fawkes masks.

310 philosophus invidius  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:34:40pm

Obama obviously meant that he refused to let the Detroit-centered U.S. auto industry go bankrupt. I guess Erik Erickson et al. are not familiar with metonymy.

en.wikipedia.org

311 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:37:34pm

re: #308 Kragar

“You fucked up; you trusted us” really isn’t that great an excuse.

But that’s just the thing; It wasn’t ‘us’ in the case of Detroit. At least not if “us” is defined as the state government of Michigan or the Republican Party. The GOP held no power within the Detroit city government and the city rejected the state’s proposed solutions.

Now, Detroit has fallen into such dire straights that the state has been forced to take action. But make no mistake: The governor and his emergency manager are not the ones who caused Detroit’s crisis.

312 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:38:06pm

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

William, perhaps you are mistaking what I am referring to: In this case I am referring specifically to unions contracting with the city of Detroit, not labor unions in general. It was not greed that brought Detroit low, it was incompetence, dishonesty, and an unwillingness to plan for the future.

Which part of that includes taking a major industrial city and shipping all its industry overseas?

313 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:38:46pm

re: #311 Dark_Falcon

But that’s just the thing; It wasn’t ‘us’ in the case of Detroit. At least not if “us” is defined as the state government of Michigan or the Republican Party. The GOP held no power within the Detroit city government and the city rejected the state’s proposed solutions.

Now, Detroit has fallen into such dire straights that the state has been forced to take action. But make no mistake: The governor and his emergency manager are not the ones who caused Detroit’s crisis.

But that’s not going to stop them from take advantage of the crisis.

After all, you should never let one go to waste.///

314 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:42:05pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

Clearly the workers were in on the conspiracy. Sending their children to college and setting up a secure financial future for their family was short sighted. God. What a bunch of greedy malcontents.

315 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:43:21pm

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

William, perhaps you are mistaking what I am referring to: In this case I am referring specifically to unions contracting with the city of Detroit, not labor unions in general. It was not greed that brought Detroit low, it was incompetence, dishonesty, and an unwillingness to plan for the future.

I’m sorry but I don’t accept that as anything based in reality. There was no reason to believe that there was anything unsustainable about any of these contracts until the richest segment of the nation decided to live on the backs of the workers rather than pay their fair share of taxes.

Remember the 50’s? Biggest economic growth in the nation’s history? Also the highest taxes in our nation’s history. Economic growth started to decline when? When Kennedy cut taxes.,, Oops! Union busting restarted then too. Even bigger oops!

If we want the nation to survive in the long run we need two things - Single payer & Ike’s tax plan.

316 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:47:29pm

It’s always the unions. That’s what the rich guy told me.

317 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:48:10pm

re: #313 Targetpractice

But that’s not going to stop them from take advantage of the crisis.

After all, you should never let one go to waste.///

It’s not like we should be worrying about government assets being sold super-cheap to a cadre of cronies or something. That never happens, particularly when there’s just one guy and very little oversight.

318 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:53:11pm

re: #316 BigPapa

It’s always the unions. That’s what the rich guy told me.

“Why don’t they live according to their means?”, the rich man asked.

319 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:53:12pm

re: #317 The Ghost of a Flea

It’s not like we should be worrying about government assets being sold super-cheap to a cadre of cronies or something. That never happens, particularly when there’s just one guy and very little oversight.

Seriously, it feels like I’m watching Enron all over again. The workers are out on their ass and up to their eyeballs in debt, while the guys responsible who haven’t been jailed for fucking over the wrong people *cou1%gh* will walk away with heavy pockets. And instead of helping the folks out, what are we doing? Sitting back and watching because we can’t be bothered to care about the people whose lives are now getting gutted before our very eyes.

320 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:53:28pm

I’m starting to take Elizabeth Warren seriously as a candidate. She’d make a strong compliment to Clinton, yet is young enough to continue on and run for Pres if she was VP for 8 years.

Time for the ladies to take a shot at it.

321 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:53:45pm

Going to go splat. 05:30 local will be here all too soon. Good night all.

322 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:54:12pm

Nothing funnier than rich people telling the working folk that they’re greedy.

323 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:55:50pm

re: #320 BigPapa

I’m starting to take Elizabeth Warren seriously as a candidate. She’d make a strong compliment to Clinton, yet is young enough to continue on and run for Pres if she was VP for 8 years.

Time for the ladies to take a shot at it.

One last blurb - she’s far too valuable in the Senate to waste in the White House. Yes, really. Keep her there, get seniority & she’ll show dimwit’s ghost what a _real_ majority leader can do.

324 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:55:51pm

re: #320 BigPapa

I’m starting to take Elizabeth Warren seriously as a candidate. She’d make a strong compliment to Clinton, yet is young enough to continue on and run for Pres if she was VP for 8 years.

Time for the ladies to take a shot at it.

Don’t leave out Gilabrand.

325 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:56:05pm

re: #247 dragonath

Camden gets bad press, but from what I’ve seen, it’s paradise compared to Gary, Indiana. Both those towns are like cross-border satellites of greater cities.

Both also victims of a mono-industry collapsing. Steel in Gary and ship building in Camden. Some cities have been able to re-define themselves and recover. I think having a very large city nearby interferes with that process since it’s probably easier to settle somewhere else in the orbit of that larger city than trying to come in and revitalize.

326 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:57:19pm

re: #324 Velvet Elvis

Don’t leave out Gilabrand.

I just don’t know as much about her, that is all. But I’m watching.

327 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:57:57pm

re: #315 William Barnett-Lewis

The 50’s were a Golden Age for Michigan, it’s true. But several of the circumstances that lead to their being so no longer exist. The US auto industry did so well in the 1950’s in substantial because its foreign competition in France, Italy, Germany and Japan had been devastated by World War II. But that advantage was a temporary one and when the big Three found themselves facing serious foreign competition in the later 1960’s they failed to change their policies to compete effectively. The UAW, for its part, at the time refused to accept that changed circumstances required changes from it as well, instead demanding ever tighter work rules to the point that only electricians were allowed to change light bulbs.

Detroit is not a case of “evil rich, virtuous commoners”. The citizenry and the auto workers made their own serious mistakes and it is dishonest to hold them blameless.

328 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:59:15pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

The 50’s were a Golden Age for Michigan, it’s true. But several of the circumstances that lead to their being so no longer exist. The US auto industry did so well in the 1950’s in substantial because its foreign competition in France, Italy, Germany and Japan had been devastated by World War II. But that advantage was a temporary one and when the big Three found themselves facing serious foreign competition in the later 1960’s they failed to change their policies to compete effectively. The UAW, for its part, at the time refused to accept that changed circumstances required changes from it as well, instead demanding ever tighter work rules to the point that only electricians were allowed to change light bulbs.

Detroit is not a case of “evil rich, virtuous commoners”. The citizenry and the auto workers made their own serious mistakes and it is dishonest to hold them blameless.

So both sides are to blame, but one side is the one getting it up the ass?

329 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 9:59:59pm

If Detroit were truly collectivist, it would collectivize the suburbs surrounding it and be solvent again.

330 freetoken  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:02:53pm

re: #280 palomino

… The near consensus that existed back in the 1930s, for example, is gone. At that time the country had only 100 million people and was 95% white and 95% Christian…

That doesn’t sound quite right, I think it was more like 90% “white””
census.gov

Nevertheless, the point still stands. There is an underlying racial tone to all those tweets of gladness over the bankruptcy.

Remember, Detroit was ground zero for “redlining”.

331 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:03:05pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

The UAW, for its part, at the time refused to accept that changed circumstances required changes from it as well, instead demanding ever tighter work rules to the point that only electricians were allowed to change light bulbs.

Detroit is not a case of “evil rich, virtuous commoners”. The citizenry and the auto workers made their own serious mistakes and it is dishonest to hold them blameless.

For your part, you can accept that circumstances have changed since the 60s, and acknowledge that many union shops have their backs to the wall because management continually threatens to outsource their jobs to Mexico.

Unless, uh, you’re willing to take the companies side on this. Because 2 weeks vacation from a casting shop is too much to ask.

332 BigPapa  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:05:05pm

So only electricians changing light bulbs had it’s part in Detroit’s decline?

This smacks of anecdotal bias, too vague to take seriously. I’ve worked around unions and sometimes there’s some BS going on… but just as much, people love to talk smack about union rules and BS, real or perceived.

The classic case is the ‘union elevator guy’ who runs the elevator in a high rise where work is done. He’s a bastard and can make life hell for you, get on his good side, etc.

It’s assumed that’s because of being in the union, and not human nature and politics. As if there were no unions everything would be in perfect harmony.

I’ve never been in a union but understand their role and support the concept.

333 Carlos Danger  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:06:24pm

re: #332 BigPapa

There were a lot of fake union stories going on after hurricane Sandy, and a lot of people fell for them. I think lawhawk debunked a few.

334 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:07:07pm

I don’t see how anyone can claim that Unions had too much power after Taft-Hartley. That was pretty much the end of the union movement in the US.

335 SteveMcGazi  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:09:08pm

Personally, I’d rather see Warren run for President than Clinton. If you think about it, two of the last three presidents would be relatives of previous presidents. I’m not cool with that to begin with, but I also felt that Hilary Clinton was the Mitt Romney of 2008. By that I mean that she campaigned as if she were entitled to be President, it was her turn dammit. I felt that “Expediency” was her mission statement, and I don’t know what she’s learned in the past 5 years.

336 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:09:38pm

re: #334 Velvet Elvis

I don’t see how anyone can claim that Unions had too much power after Taft-Hartley. That was pretty much the end of the union movement in the US.

If unions existed at all and bosses were not able to dictate wages from a central position to individual workers, then THEY HAD TOO MUCH POWER.

You don’t understand modern Capitalism, now, do you?

338 darthstar  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:17:32pm
339 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:18:36pm

Just to sum it up for me, why should Kalamazoo and Traverse City see their taxes hiked to pay for bills run up by another city in whose government they had no say and which had previously rejected their representatives’ efforts to avoid this crisis?

I’d answer that in the name of trying to keep Detroit viable they should be willing to pay something, but also that the rest of the state of Michigan should at this point have the whip hand. Because its no longer Detroit’s money; It’s the rest of the state’s money.

340 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:22:59pm

Oh come on Steve, don’t be that guy.

Tests show Rep. Steve Cohen’s daughter is not his

I’m a big fan but this is not looking good.

341 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:23:38pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

Just to sum it up for me, why should Kalamazoo and Traverse City see their taxes hiked to pay for bills run up by another city in whose government they had no say and which had previously rejected their representatives’ efforts to avoid this crisis?

I’d answer that in the name of trying to keep Detroit viable they should be willing to pay something, but also that the rest of the state of Michigan should at this point have the whip hand. Because its no longer Detroit’s money; It’s the rest of the state’s money.

Dark, do you believe that part of the bank bailouts should have included things like wage caps for execs? Or breaking up banks deemed “too big to fail”?

342 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:28:21pm

re: #339 Dark_Falcon

Just to sum it up for me, why should Kalamazoo and Traverse City see their taxes hiked to pay for bills run up by another city in whose government they had no say and which had previously rejected their representatives’ efforts to avoid this crisis?

I’d answer that in the name of trying to keep Detroit viable they should be willing to pay something, but also that the rest of the state of Michigan should at this point have the whip hand. Because its no longer Detroit’s money; It’s the rest of the state’s money.

It’s just flat out weird at times to think about individual states/cities going bankrupt regardless of the larger political entity surrounding them, but that may just by my natural inclination towards a herd mentality.

Berlin is another city like that actually (it’s very in debt while the rest of Germany is doing better) though there’s an interesting story behind that one. Durring the Cold War the West German government would pay people to live in Berlin, because obviously living in a city which was not contiguous with the country you belonged to and in fact was surrounded by aother country that did not like you very much can be a bit daunting at times. Because of that a lot of “artist types” moved to Berlin (also its where all the big measuems where Germany stores all the stuff it was able to haul off from other countries back when that kind of thing was in style are) but obviously after the Cold War ended and Germany became one nation again there was no need for the government to pay people to live there, which in turn lead to the city being “Poor but sexy”.

343 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:31:20pm

re: #342 jamesfirecat

Berlin is another city like that actually (it’s very in debt while the rest of Germany is doing better) though there’s an interesting story behind that one. Durring the Cold War the West German government would pay people to live in Berlin, because obviously living in a city which was not contiguous with the country you belonged to and in fact was surrounded by aother country that did not like you very much can be a bit daunting at times. Because of that a lot of “artist types” moved to Berlin (also its where all the big measuems where Germany stores all the stuff it was able to haul off from other countries back when that kind of thing was in style are) but obviously after the Cold War ended and Germany became one nation again there was no need for the government to pay people to live there, which in turn lead to the city being “Poor but sexy”.

Berlin was also run by a corrupt mayor who “loaned” a lot of municipal money out to friends & associates who obviously (in hindsignt) had no intention of paying it back…it put the city deep into debt and it is not recovered.

344 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:31:24pm

re: #341 Targetpractice

Likely ‘no’ on the former, a solid ‘yes’ to the latter.

345 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:33:45pm

re: #344 Dark_Falcon

Likely ‘no’ on the former, a solid ‘yes’ to the latter.

Why “no” to the former? We’re bailing them out, shouldn’t we have a say in how they do business? Execs were getting bonuses for actions that contributed to the Recession, then running off with golden parachutes when things crashed down. Shouldn’t we have taken steps to ensure that such behavior didn’t continue while we bailed them out?

346 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:36:11pm

re: #345 Targetpractice

Why “no” to the former? We’re bailing them out, shouldn’t we have a say in how they do business? Execs were getting bonuses for actions that contributed to the Recession, then running off with golden parachutes when things crashed down. Shouldn’t we have taken steps to ensure that such behavior didn’t continue while we bailed them out?

Becasue when I go bankrupt and move back in with my parents, they should have no say in how I live…

347 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:37:55pm

re: #346 Sol Berdinowitz

Becasue when I go bankrupt and move back in with my parents, they wshould have no say in how I live…

Imperfect analogy, unless you’re also acting as their fiduciary, then you “go bankrupt” by losing their money.

348 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:40:23pm

re: #345 Targetpractice

Why “no” to the former? We’re bailing them out, shouldn’t we have a say in how they do business? Execs were getting bonuses for actions that contributed to the Recession, then running off with golden parachutes when things crashed down. Shouldn’t we have taken steps to ensure that such behavior didn’t continue while we bailed them out?

The cancellation of bonus packages for firms that had to be bailed out is one thing. ‘Pay caps’ in my mind mean capping compensation for a given position by law, and that is a different thing.

We may actually not have a serious disagreement, just different definitions.

349 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:40:25pm

If a bank is too big to fail, it is too big to be unregulated.

350 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:44:36pm

re: #349 Sol Berdinowitz

If a bank is too big to fail, it is too big to be unregulated.

Bah, in my red book if a bank is too big to fail they are too big to operate as a private industry and instead should be be government run not just govenrment regulated!

351 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:49:04pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

The cancellation of bonus packages for firms that had to be bailed out is one thing. ‘Pay caps’ in my mind mean capping compensation for a given position by law, and that is a different thing.

We may actually not have a serious disagreement, just different definitions.

Yet what are you suggesting but the idea that these pensions are simply too large and so, by law, the state of Michigan should have the power to raid them to cover the city’s debts?

The same Wall Street pricks who fucked over the country and then got paid for doing so are the ones holding Detroit’s debts. Many of those pensioners you think fucked over the city? Yeah, they already got fucked over by the same Wall Street pricks, whether it was loss of property value, lost investments, or foreclosed homes. And now you’re declaring that, as the final insult, they should be stabbed in the back while declaring that it’s for their own good.

352 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 10:49:59pm

re: #350 jamesfirecat

Bah, in my red book if a bank is too big to fail they are too big to operate as a private industry and instead should be be government run not just govenrment regulated!

I could live with that, I just cannot stand hearing the concept that the government attaching terms and conditions to a bailout is some form of “interference in the free market”

353 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:02:56pm

re: #351 Targetpractice

Detroit has over 100,000 creditors (source), so there are a great many who are not in fact “Wall Street pricks”. Before you blame the creditors, first let’s make sure we know who they are and what their positions in a bankruptcy are.

354 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:07:20pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Detroit has over 100,000 creditors (source), so there are a great many who are not in fact “Wall Street pricks”. Before you blame the creditors, first let’s make sure we know who they are and what their positions in a bankruptcy are.

I have no interest in the details, I just want to use Detroit’s bankruptcy to rail abainst collectivist socilism if I am a wingnut or against Wall Street pricks if I am a moonbat.

And it will keep me twittering away, nuance-free, until the next scandal comes up next week…

/

355 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:08:23pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Detroit has over 100,000 creditors (source), so there are a great many who are not in fact “Wall Street pricks”. Before you blame the creditors, first let’s make sure we know who they are and what their positions in a bankruptcy are.

We appear to be moving away from my point, which is that the precedent was already set with the Wall Street bailout. The people of Michigan should not see helping Detroit out of its predicament as an opportunity to kick pensioners in the ass.

356 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:10:58pm

re: #355 Targetpractice

We appear to be moving away from my point, which is that the precedent was already set with the Wall Street bailout. The people of Michigan should not see helping Detroit out of its predicament as an opportunity to kick pensioners in the ass.

Bankers are job creators, pensioners are losers who are too old to work, and if they have no union to back them up, are easily kicked to the curb.

/

357 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:13:50pm

It’s past 1am here in Chicagoland, so I’m going to turn in for the night.

358 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:14:17pm

re: #355 Targetpractice

We appear to be moving away from my point, which is that the precedent was already set with the Wall Street bailout. The people of Michigan should not see helping Detroit out of its predicament as an opportunity to kick pensioners in the ass.

$14 billion in long term debt (bonds) is the problem. The pensioners should be the first priority, but of course, they won’t be. You fought fires/crime for thirty five years?

Fuck you. You’re one of the little people.

359 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:15:46pm

re: #357 Dark_Falcon

It’s past 1am here in Chicagoland, so I’m going to turn in for the night.

How long until my hometown of Gary, Indiana, follows suit?

360 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:16:47pm

re: #358 austin_blue

$14 billion in long term debt (bonds) is the problem. The pensioners should be the first priority, but of course, they won’t be. You fought fires/crime for thirty five years?

Fuck you. You’re one of the little people.

Exactly, bailouts are for Job Creators with powerful lobbies…

361 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:18:33pm

re: #360 Sol Berdinowitz

Exactly, bailouts are for Job Creators with powerful lobbies…

This.

362 Higgs Boson's Mate  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:35:16pm

Does anyone else get the feeling that these derps would clap their flippers with glee if the whole damn’ nation went down the shitter - as long as they could blame it on the Democrats? Does anyone else get the corollary feeling that if we were reduced to roasting sparrows on coat hangers over trash fires that those same derps would find ways to make sure that people of color were forbidden to own coat hangars?

363 AlexRogan  Thu, Jul 18, 2013 11:59:34pm

re: #362 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Does anyone else get the feeling that these derps would clap their flippers with glee if the whole damn’ nation went down the shitter - as long as they could blame it on the Democrats? Does anyone else get the corollary feeling that if we were reduced to roasting sparrows on coat hangers over trash fires that those same derps would find ways to make sure that people of color were forbidden to own coat hangars?

It’s pretty simple; many of these ‘conservatives’ would be content if the country went to hell-in-a-handbasket, just as long as they get to rule over the ashes.

364 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 12:18:40am

re: #363 AlexRogan

It’s pretty simple; many of these ‘conservatives’ would be content if the country went to hell-in-a-handbasket, just as long as they get to rule over the ashes.

I think it goes beyond “they would be content if”…that seems to be their operative plan at this point.

365 BlazerBeav  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 12:31:35am

re: #128 dragonath

I think Senator Levin actually steered stimulus money towards Tiger Stadium back in 2008, and the city council still tore down the remains of the stadium so they could develop some strip malls on the site.

Is saving a decrepit, no longer in use baseball stadium a legitimate use of federal money - especially given the gleaming new stadium built in the city? What would it have been used for? I’m all for revitalization, but that place was a dump long before 2008.

366 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 1:03:23am

re: #365 BlazerBeav

Is saving a decrepit, no longer in use baseball stadium a legitimate use of federal money - especially given the gleaming new stadium built in the city? What would it have been used for? I’m all for revitalization, but that place was a dump long before 2008.

Public funds for sports is another area where “small government” advocates go all mushy and start making excuses to soften up their ironclad ideals.

Modern sporting teams are businesses, they should rise or fall based on their performance on the market.

367 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 1:49:48am

I really never thought that I’d live to see Americans openly celebrating the hard times of other Americans. Well, I didn’t think that until the last few years at least. It’s bothering me to the point that I can’t sleep.

I’d like to ask these “fine upstanding” Americans just wtf they think they’ve won in all this celebrating? Seriously assholes, I dare you to tell me precisely what the hell is it you won? I know who won here, and it ain’t who you think. It’s the people profiting off selling the parts that used to belong to the public that they have no rights to sell. But go ahead and do your victory lap, and then go to church on Sunday so you can tell us all just how much more God loves you than the rest of us. Please. Proceed.

I’d also truly LOVE to hear all these gleeful assholes tell me SPECIFICALLY what GOP policies and plans they have to make life better for the majority of people. I want to know how those plans work, not some “free market, get the government off your back” horseshit that tells me nothing. I want to know, SPECIFICALLY (pesky word, isn’t it?) what the plan is for getting people back to work and how fewer taxes make for good governing. I want to know SPECIFICALLY, why I should vote for anyone who claims to be a Republican or a Libertarian, I want to know SPECIFICALLY what they will do over the next 10 to 20 years to lower unemployment and make the middle class prosperous again. SPECIFICALLY. Go Ahead, you all are SO smart, tell me, since I’m a stupid Liberal, what it is that you’re doing, SPECIFICALLY to make this country better. I’m waiting….

Mike Rowe, the Dirty Jobs/Discovery Channel narrator guy, is on a quest to explain to people how we could fill 3 million jobs right now if our workforce was properly trained in various trades and skilled labor positions. We’ve fucked up in this country by devaluing blue collar jobs (other than lip service and “proud to be an American” songs on commercials) and steering kids towards anything that won’t get their hands dirty(I’ve been guilty of this to some degree myself, though I have changed my tune drastically in the last year). The result is that nearly every state has jobs that aren’t able to be filled because there’s no one who knows how to do them that isn’t retired. I’m talking about plumbers, electricians, infrastructure workers, welders, mechanics, machinists, the list goes on and on. Mike has appealed to both political parties, he’s testified before the Senate even. And no one is really hearing him. If you’ve ever seen Dirty Jobs, the concept is to show us what it takes to keep a modern society functional, the behind the scenes stuff we take for granted, like how a water treatment plant functions or what it takes to keep a sewage system cleared and functioning. We’ve attached shame to this sort of work which is amusing, until your sewage system backs up into your house on the weekend or the power goes out for a week, or the road you take to work develops a sinkhole, or a water main breaks and it takes days to fix.

This short sighted , mean spirited bullshit needs to stop. I really think we won’t survive as a nation unless we can bypass this crap and figure out how to work together, and damned soon. Terrorism isn’t going to be our undoing, the lack of Unity is. We’re being destroyed from within, and it’s not Liberalism that’s the enemy here. It’s Hate. It’s going to destroy us as a nation and as individuals. We’re not “Indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for All” anymore, and until we are again, we have no business calling ourselves The United States of Anything.

368 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 2:28:36am

I sort of went off the rails a little above, I’m tired. I meant to tie things together there by saying one thing we could tangibly do soon is begin shifting some of our education efforts into skilled trade jobs, for all ages. I think those would be dollars well spent, an investment in the future, and the present. This isn’t going to happen until we can bring a large number of people together and confront politicians, hand in hand with the business interests this will benefit over the long haul. Personally, I think this is a really constructive way to say a hearty Fuck You to Erick Erickson, Michelle Malkin and the rest of the assholes celebrating the City of Detroit’s bankruptcy. Who does that? Happy, normal functional people do not behave like this. Ever.

369 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 2:39:43am

What is wrong with going bankrupt? You restructure and start again. You get the government to bail you out, and if they try to attach terms and conditions to prevent a future meltdown, you complain about government interference and creaping socilism

370 freetoken  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 3:15:53am

re: #337 Varek Raith

Texas Legislators File Radical ‘Fetal Heartbeat’ Bill To Ban Abortion After Just Six Weeks

This is one of those scenarios that scares people off from doing DNA tests.

371 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 3:31:34am

Obama doesn’t really believe in America or love America. He went on an apology tour apologizing for America. The left hates America, too. They’re very anti-American.

American City of Detroit declares bankruptcy.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

372 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 3:40:14am

re: #368 A Mom Anon

I don’t think you went off the rails at all. No, not everyone wants to go to college, or should. The result of thinking that everyone should is that the for-profits have been raking in federal funds and doing a shitty job of running trade schools that leave a lot of people in serious debt and use up too much of Federal funds that should go toward public, state run schools. I didn’t go to college until I was in my 30s, just a bit short of 4 semesters, and took only academic courses, intending to get a 4 yr degree, then law school, which got sidetracked by the economy and my need to bring in money to live because my kids were still teens. I am extremely math-challenged but not arithmetic challenged (I can keep a full set of books) but it wasn’t forced upon me in school. In fact, students were able back then to substitute a foreign language for math courses, as late as the early 70s, and when I finally took college courses it was more Spanish (HS, too). I left school, devastated, with a 3.87 GPA, and by that time, I was competing with college grads for the same jobs and you guessed it, no degree, no job. I’m not a particularly “ambitious” or pushy person, and the squeaky wheel always gets the grease and I wasn’t going to “pad” my resume, either.

When I was in HS back in the 50s, I went to what was called a “technical HS”, but while I was learning bookkeeping, typing, business math, and related courses, I also was taking literature, history, and other humanities courses. So it kept intact my love of reading and my curiosity but also enabled me to get and keep FT office jobs.

My thoughts about education are mixed. I really think we should integrate training for some occupations into HS, as we used to do, while not neglecting basic academics. Keep “college” about academics and real professional training, not some opportunity for profiteers to train beauticians, auto mechanics, medical assts, and clerical workers, and leaving those students in debt they can’t afford. My granddaughter went that route, taking a one year course as a certified med asst (CMA) at a for profit “college” and wound up $8K in debt, even though she got Fed grants and loans. It was the kind of job for which drs used to train their own employees (such as I once was for an ophthalmologist), just as other jobs used to have apprentices. She could have gone to a community college, but they sold the “exclusivity” of the school to her ignorant mother, the same way they did to other low income parents. Now, she’s no longer working for a dr, preferring to raise poodles and working for Pet Smart as a groomer, and is still paying off those loans, contracts she signed when she was 17.

Add the state of real education to the fact that employers no longer want to train their own employees in basic functions, like new technologies or policies and procedures, and you have new profit making centers in “continuing education” that often leave students in debt and no better off for years. Employees are no longer valued, and neither is education promoted by those who run things. It’s all about the money.

373 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:33:00am

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

NO.

374 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:34:24am

There’s a guy in Britain named Lord Pannick and he’s actually pretty chill.

375 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:37:34am

re: #373 Vicious Babushka

Not just no, but hell, no.

376 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:43:16am

re: #367 A Mom Anon

I wish I could upding this forever.

377 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:49:02am
378 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:51:47am

The northeast is having a hotter July than the southeast. I can’t remember when that’s ever happened. We’ve only cracked 90 twice this month, briefly in the afternoons, a week ago, and are way over in rain days. It’s rained to some extent or another almost every single day this month where I live in NC. We are keeping well into the 80s, and have even had a few days in the 70s.

379 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:52:34am

Morning Lizardim.

380 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:54:14am

The “conservatives” cheering Detroit’s bankruptcy are psychopaths. There’s no other way to describe them.

These people would seriously watch a city fall into ruin just so they can blame POTUS and Democrats and liberals for it. They’re completely deranged.

381 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:54:20am

#NewDetroitCityMottos is still full of wingnuts gloating, and blaming the fall of Detroit on TEH YOONYUNZ!!!111

382 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:55:38am

The wingnut solution for turning Detroit around is MOAR WALMARTS & MCDONALDS!!!1!! but the majority of them are all like this:

383 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:58:05am
384 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 4:59:59am

re: #376 Vicious Babushka

(((Hugs)))

It’s not often shit like this makes me lose sleep, but this did. It bothers the shit out of me that these freaks do this over and over and there’s never any consequences for it. Erickson and Malkin make way better money than my family does, and they don’t work nearly as hard or make nearly the sacrifices. What seriously needs to happen is that they need to be publicly embarrassed in their own neighborhoods by the people around them. Like if Erickson stops at the store on his way home, people in the store recognize him and laugh at how stupid he is. Or when Malkin shows up to grab a coffee somewhere she can hear the whispers and feel the cold stares people give her. These people and their followers are isolated from their assholishness because they hide behind their computers. No one can convince me they’re good neighbors or fun to be around unless you’re in their little tea party group(and what passes for fun with them? I do not want to know). There’s no way that much hate doesn’t spill over into other areas of life, especially when someone around them upsets them or doesn’t live up to some expectation. They suck and there should be a public consequence for that, that is part of a society’s function on some level.

385 AntonSirius  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:00:34am

I’m late to the party, but what the hell.

386 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:00:39am

DUMBASS MITT WAS TALKING ABOUT THE AUTO INDUSTRY.

387 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:01:13am
388 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:07:26am

re: #387 Lidane

[Embedded content]

And that’s after they take the entire month of August off.

389 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:08:20am

I’m atheist but fuck these people sideways. There’s a damned good reason for a Star of David at a Holocaust Memorial, FFS:

390 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:09:06am

re: #387 Lidane

They should get an hourly wage just like most people do. That’s another group isolated from the consequences of their actions that shouldn’t be. If we weren’t asleep as a country, they’d never get away with this shit.

We’re gonna have to figure something out here that’s key, no matter what your politics or religion are: This division among us serves a larger purpose. When there’s chaos, it’s much easier to get away with stealing. And that is what is happening. We’re losing jobs, the public commons(parks, roads, bridges, schools, government offices,etc) and anything else that benefits us as a Nation. These things are being sold off right under our noses because we’re fighting and screaming at each other over abortion, racism, sexism and whatever else can be dug up to add fuel to the fire. We’re not fighting the sources of the problems we face, not even close.

391 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:09:54am

re: #389 Lidane

The Star of David is not just a religious symbol. It’s like banning Christmas lights.

392 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:10:12am

re: #389 Lidane

I’m atheist but fuck these people sideways. There’s a damned good reason for a Star of David at a Holocaust Memorial, FFS:

[Embedded content]

I didn’t realize that “Thou Shalt Be An Asshole” was the One Commandment of atheism.

393 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:11:11am

re: #392 Vicious Babushka

I didn’t realize that “Thou Shalt Be An Asshole” was the One Commandment of atheism.

To be fair, there are some atheists that are actually not enormous pricks. But they seem to be about as common as Christians who aren’t completely adrift in a sea of derp.

394 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:11:25am

BBL, I’m throwing a b-day luncheon for some girlfriends today and I have to get ready. Rock On Detroit, I’m rooting for you to succeed, fuck a bunch of wingnut assholes.

395 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:11:35am

re: #391 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The Star of David is not just a religious symbol. It’s like banning Christmas lights.

The Star of David did not become a Judaic symbol until the Middle Ages. Prior to that, the Menorah was the symbol of Judaism, the Star of David was just an architectural motif.

396 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:15:00am

re: #392 Vicious Babushka

I didn’t realize that “Thou Shalt Be An Asshole” was the One Commandment of atheism.

If it is, it’s another rule I’m absolutely willing to ignore.

Yes, church and state mixing is bad. But WTF. How can you get your panties in a knot over a Star of David at a Holocaust memorial? Way to be a classless, insensitive douchecanoe.

397 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:18:04am

re: #393 thedopefishlives

To be fair, there are some atheists that are actually not enormous pricks. But they seem to be about as common as Christians who aren’t completely adrift in a sea of derp.

The majority of atheist objections to religious symbols on government property are right and proper, even if they annoy some people. But the Star of David is basically an ethnic symbol, not a religious one. As a Jew, I don’t assume another Jew displaying a star of David is religious, and I’d wear one, too.

398 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:20:14am
399 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:21:46am

re: #390 A Mom Anon

We also need to blow up all those stupid fraudulent schools like DeVry and the scummy culinary academies shit like that that promise good careers and can’t deliver. Or regulate the shit out of them. There’s so many scam colleges.

400 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:22:51am

I’m an atheist, and no asshole, either (though my g-son would disagree at times—it’s that generation thing x2).

Wasn’t the Holocaust about being Jewish, for crying out loud? It was their ethnoreligious status that was the focus of the “final solution”. Actually, quite a few “libertarians” are also atheists, so there you are.

401 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:24:50am

Today is the 24th anniversary of the most impossible bit of flying in aviation history. United Flight 232 was flown without hydraulics after an engine explosion to a crash landing at Sioux City Iowa that allowed 185 to survive.

en.wikipedia.org

402 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:25:14am

re: #400 Justanotherhuman

Well, the Holocaust was not just Jews, which is important to keep front and center when talking about it. Intellectual or revolutionary or political or in any way organized Poles, for example, and Romani were just as brutally treated as the Jews.

This is really just another problem that “jew” is both an ethnic and religious term. But the Star of David is a symbol both secular and religious Jews use. Ergo, it’s not just a religious symbol, like a cross would be.

403 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:26:47am

Wingnuts still jubilantly Derping over My City.

404 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:27:09am

re: #397 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The majority of atheist objections to religious symbols on government property are right and proper, even if they annoy some people. But the Star of David is basically an ethnic symbol, not a religious one. As a Jew, I don’t assume another Jew displaying a star of David is religious, and I’d wear one, too.

I don’t have a problem with that. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that many atheists tend to be condescending douchecanoes. We get that you feel superior because you believe there is no God, but rubbing it in our faces isn’t going to sell your position to anyone.

405 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:28:32am

re: #404 thedopefishlives

I don’t have a problem with that. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that many atheists tend to be condescending douchecanoes. We get that you feel superior because you believe there is no God, but rubbing it in our faces isn’t going to sell your position to anyone.

Atheists who are condescending assholes are in the same category as Christians who tell everyone else they’re going to hell.

406 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:38:39am

re: #404 thedopefishlives

I don’t have a problem with that. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that many atheists tend to be condescending douchecanoes. We get that you feel superior because you believe there is no God, but rubbing it in our faces isn’t going to sell your position to anyone.

Well, as an atheist, I don’t try to sell my position to anyone— except politically, but I think separation of church and state benefits religious people as much as atheists.

407 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:40:01am

I think building casinos was the stupidest decision the City of Detroit ever made. WTF were they thinking? It started because some casinos opened across the river in Canada, and people were going over there and Mayor (at that time) Coleman Young thought Hey! They can gamble here too! Let’s build us some big-ass casinos and keep all that gambling money and JRRBZ.

What a breathtaking FAIL.

Ten years ago I worked in downtown Detroit. In order to get to my office building from the parking structure, I had to walk through the Greektown district where there was a huge casino. When it was cold outside I walked through the casino lobby which was open 24/7.

Nothing is more depressing than seeing people playing the slot machines at 6:30 AM.

408 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:40:24am

re: #402 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Of course, but the original focus of the “final solution” were Jews, practicing or otherwise, and others were added later as the Third Reich descended into utter madness to rid themselves of “enemies” in their quest to create the “Master Race”. Some scholars say the concept originated as early as 1931 in Nazi and SS documents.

Hitler, 1939: “Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.”

409 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:49:32am

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree that the unions were being, not corrupt or evil, but short-sighted?

No.

If a person is against unions then they are against democracy. The right to assemble freely is central to democracy.

Also, no one talks about busting up companies when they fuck up big time. What makes unions different?

410 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:49:48am

re: #408 Justanotherhuman

This isn’t quite true. The Nazis were oppressing and killing their political enemies from the start. The Jews were chief among them, but so were leftists, communists, etc. etc. The original Nazi plans about the invasion of Eastern Europe also including mass-killing and enslaving the population.

411 thedopefishlives  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:50:50am

re: #405 Vicious Babushka

Atheists who are condescending assholes are in the same category as Christians who tell everyone else they’re going to hell.

Which was my point from upthread. We all have our douchecanoes to deal with, no matter our religion. Some people are just wired up that way.

412 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:55:14am
413 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:57:29am

THIS WOULD BE HORRIBLE

414 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:58:16am

Holy fuck, Yahoo is leading with a article by Pat Buchanan about “Black America”:

Image: Screen_Shot_2013-07-19_at_8.55.43_AM.png

415 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 5:59:43am

FUCKING MORON: If Detroit is SO “Socialist” how come ONE GUY GETS TO OWN NORTH AMERICA’S LARGEST INTERNATIONAL BORDER CROSSING ALL BY HIMSELF?

416 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:05:46am

re: #392 Vicious Babushka

I didn’t realize that “Thou Shalt Be An Asshole” was the One Commandment of atheism.

re: #393 thedopefishlives

To be fair, there are some atheists that are actually not enormous pricks. But they seem to be about as common as Christians who aren’t completely adrift in a sea of derp.

As I’ve pointed out before, many people, perhaps most, latch on to belief systems to provide excuses for their actions, not as guidelines to be better people.

417 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:06:51am

re: #415 Vicious Babushka

Because they’re liberally applying the definition of socialism in a way that it is not socialism by any standard political science definition. They just repeat it enough to the point that they think people believe it.

418 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:09:44am

re: #417 lawhawk

Because they’re liberally applying the definition of socialism in a way that it is not socialism by any standard political science definition. They just repeat it enough to the point that they think people believe it.

They don’t even know what “socialism” is or what it does, it’s just a word they apply to things they don’t like. They use “Socialism!” like a 3-year-old calling someone “poopyhead”

419 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:11:08am

Must head off. Worlds to conquer and splicers to kill.

I’ll leave this little bit of Buddhism I learned today.

Each person is given the key to heaven. That key also opens the gates to hell.

420 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:16:34am

What right-wing racism?

421 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:19:51am

re: #414 dragonath

OFFS

422 geoffm33  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:24:02am

(May have already been talked about overnight, but) Boston Magazine received police photos from a Sgt Sean Murphy that showed some of the behind the scenes of the manhunt including a pic of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev coming out of the boat, bloodied and with a snipers laser-dot on his head. Sgt Murphy has been relieved of his duties pending a review of his actions.

Anyway, here is a link to the Boston Magazine article with the photos.

The purpose of this post is to highlight one of the comments:

Aaron K Kraus • 16 hours ago
If your objection is that the cover photo glamorizes Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and presents him as an enticing role model to young readers because of his looks then you’re rightly concerned about something that has nothing to do with Rolling Stone.

If your objection is that the cover photo humanizes Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and presents him as a multi-demensional — even sympathetic — figure, well you have just confronted one of humanity’s starkest truths: that we are all humans, endowed with a tremendous capacity for both evil and empathy. Again, your concern has nothing to do with Rolling Stone.

If your objection is that the cover photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev disrespects the victims of his alleged crimes because it focuses on the criminal rather than the crimes then you’re arguing for such a narrow view of journalism and journalistic priorities that the end product would probably do little to educate, enlighten, and engage readers.

If your objection is that Rolling Stone’s intention is to drive sales with sensational cover photos, well, yeah.

Then again, see the photos above, linked online, to drive traffic.

423 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:24:51am

re: #410 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

This isn’t quite true. The Nazis were oppressing and killing their political enemies from the start. The Jews were chief among them, but so were leftists, communists, etc. etc. The original Nazi plans about the invasion of Eastern Europe also including mass-killing and enslaving the population.

Leftists, communists and Jews were quite often the same people as well. Bolshevism was seen as Jewish in nature. Eastern Europe included large numbers of Jews, and conquering entire countries was a strategy in the indoctrination of non-Jews against Jewish citizens, creating anti-Jewish laws, and making it easier for the Nazis to rid them of Jewish populations. It also made it easier for the Nazis to sweep up homosexuals, the disabled, and others, and even sympathizing with Jews or worse, aiding them, could get you into the cattle cars. The “purity of blood” sought by the mad theorists of the “Master Race” was being instigated both person by person and en masse.

424 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:29:02am

DERP

425 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:33:12am

Twitter, the only place on Earth where Bloomberg is a socialist:

426 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:34:02am

WHAT A MORAN

427 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:35:23am

re: #399 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

We also need to blow up all those stupid fraudulent schools like DeVry and the scummy culinary academies shit like that that promise good careers and can’t deliver. Or regulate the shit out of them. There’s so many scam colleges.

These outfits’ tentacles have reached into China and India, where they have hoodwinked thousands of naive students and parents into thinking a degree certificate from DeVry or ITT Tech is the next best thing to a Harvard degree. The families shell out full-pay tuition, room and board. The kids arrive on campus and get thrown into regular classes with somewhat less naive American students with no ESL support for non-English speakers. Somehow (cough, cough) they pass their classes, and get a diploma that’s basically useless.

Accredited colleges and universities do not accept credits from the likes of DeVry and ITT Tech.

428 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:37:54am

re: #426 Vicious Babushka

You know who I bet really understands the situation in Detroit? Ben Shapiro and the Breitbart gang. I’ll make time today to be sure I read his thoughts. //////////

429 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:39:19am

re: #424 Vicious Babushka

Which liberal policies suck?

430 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:39:37am

re: #428 Bulworth

You know who I bet really understands the situation in Detroit? Ben Shapiro and the Breitbart gang. I’ll make time today to be sure I read his thoughts. //////////

I am pretty sure Ben Shapiro barely understands how to operate his cable box.

431 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:39:56am

re: #429 Bulworth

Which liberal policies suck?

TEH YOONYUNZ!!!1!!!!

432 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:42:30am

It drives me into a rage that the Michigan Central ruin the wingnuts keep tweeting as a symbol of LIBRULZ DID THIS!!!111 is totally owned by The Bridge Troll.

433 geoffm33  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:46:31am

re: #426 Vicious Babushka


YES!!! But install a Christian-Reupublican Govt Furst!!!1!!1!!!!11eleven

434 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:48:40am

The Koch’s and the Waltons are lining up to buy the DIA’s priceless art collection, and they’ll say it’s “patriotic” because otherwise the collection would disappear into the clutches of Saudi or Russian billionaires.

435 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:50:22am

Kay has a good article at Balloon Juice. Evidently Mitch Daniels is trying to censor certain books at Indiana universities:

Former Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels pledged to promote academic freedom when he became president of Purdue University in January, but newly released emails show he attempted to eliminate what he considered liberal “propaganda” at Indiana’s public universities while governor.
The emails are raising eyebrows about Daniels’ appointment as president of a major research university just months after critics questioned his lack of academic credentials and his hiring by a board of trustees he appointed.

I guess heavy handed quasi-governmental censorship of those terrible, no good, horrible liberal ideas is somehow going to prove that Howard Zinn is the evil masked villain at the end of Scooby Doo.

436 Wile E. Wonka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:52:27am

re: #405 Vicious Babushka

Atheists who are condescending assholes are in the same category as Christians who tell everyone else they’re going to hell.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the analogy to asshole “Christians” doesn’t quite do it for me. Atheists are less trusted, less respected than members of any religion in the USA, including Islam. Hordes of “Real Murricans” openly and constantly equate atheism with Soviet Communism to this day, and of course y’all have seen how the wingnuts lurve to paint all Democrats as “militant atheists” which to them is basically the same thing as Satanists.

We’re the second-favorite Judas goats of half the nation. I don’t condone being an asshole about it, and I think the FFRF isn’t getting any more of my money after their dick-move toward this Holocaust memorial, but I kind of see condescending atheist pricks as more analogous to the sort of gay men who hold forth to anyone who’ll stand still long enough about how disgusting “breeders” are. In other words, I don’t dig it, I think it hurts the community, but I gotta hand ‘em a little slack.

437 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:53:28am

DERP
NO DUDE, UR TOTALLY CELEBRATING.

438 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:53:28am

re: #404 thedopefishlives

I don’t have a problem with that. I do, however, have a problem with the fact that many atheists tend to be condescending douchecanoes. We get that you feel superior because you believe there is no God, but rubbing it in our faces isn’t going to sell your position to anyone.

Or is it that the more outspoken atheists are tending to be assholes much as the majority of outspoken Christians, Muslims, etc. are also tending to be assholes?

Perhaps viewing the wrong circle on the big Venn diagram?
:)

439 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:53:50am
440 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:55:05am

re: #439 Vicious Babushka

Sell it to Canada, let them fix it and install socialized medicine, and then invade.
//

441 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:55:22am

re: #438 Feline Fearless Leader

Or is it that the more outspoken atheists are tending to be assholes much as the majority of outspoken Christians, Muslims, etc. are also tending to be assholes?

Perhaps viewing the wrong circle on the big Venn diagram?
:)

How about: some people use religion (or anti-religion) as an excuse to be assholes.

442 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:58:04am

Mornin’ everyone.

443 Wile E. Wonka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:58:07am

I wonder sometimes if the special hatred the right wing seems to have for Detroit specifically isn’t just about the UAW being a big rival of theirs from way back, or even about its position in the history of “white flight” in the 20th century.

I wonder sometimes if they just can’t forgive Detroit for making Michael Moore famous.
(1/2)/

444 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:58:11am

re: #435 dragonath

Yeah, what an assmunch this Daniels is.

But, you know, Freedom and stuff. /

445 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 6:59:07am

re: #443 Wile E. Wonka

Race and Unions. Wingnuts hate the latter and don’t much like blah people either.

446 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:00:59am

re: #107 Lawrence Schmerel

I don’t recall the wingers laughing about Jefferson County, Alabama, deep in the heart of Mother Dixie.

Orange County, CA and Nassau County, NY, two of the richest counties in the US, and both run by GOP machines, both had to be bailed out to avoid bankruptcy in the 1990s.

I’m sure it was the fault of liberals and unions and ni*CLANG*s, though.

/////

447 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:02:05am

re: #441 Vicious Babushka

How about: some people use religion (or anti-religion) as an excuse to be assholes.

That works too.

448 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:02:36am

re: #435 dragonath

I guess Daniels didn’t much like the fact that Zinn told the history of Columbus from, you know, actual diary information.

449 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:03:56am

Corporate bankruptcy differs significantly from a municipal bankruptcy - starting from the applicable laws and rules governing the bankruptcy process. Different chapters of the bankruptcy code.

Still, it’s the unsecured creditors who will stand to lose the most in any bankruptcy, and the Detroit case has plenty of those.

Those creditors will be demanding that the City sell off everything that isn’t tied down to cover their obligations, but the City also has a responsibility to its taxpayers and citizens to maintain its assets.

Other cities have gone through the bankruptcy process and emerged with more solid financials; the same will eventually happen for Detroit, but it wont be pretty.

450 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:04:40am

re: #437 Vicious Babushka

So the “cause” is….unions? And no other state or municipality employees workers who belong to unions and no other state or municipality provides pension income to its retirees? //

451 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:06:43am

re: #450 Bulworth

So the “cause” is….unions? And no other state or municipality employees workers who belong to unions and no other state or municipality provides pension income to its retirees? //

It’s just a mindless wingnut meme: SOSHULIZM!!! LIBRULIZM!!11!! YOONYUNZ!!111!!!

The historical decline of Detroit is too complex to explain in one Tweet.

452 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:06:43am

re: #446 Ian G.

Nassau and Suffolk Counties have both bailed out by the state (2000 and 1992 respectively). New York’s experience could be repeated elsewhere if the states so chose. But in Michigan’s case, they’d rather see slash and burn to Detroit than to try and fix it without going through bankruptcy.

453 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:06:49am

re: #449 lawhawk

I’m having doubts a unelected “manager” is really working in good faith, though.

454 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:07:52am

SO MUCH DERP IN ONE TWEET.

455 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:10:58am

re: #454 Vicious Babushka

Another “constructive” discussion of “cause”, and totally not celebrating sentiment from wingnut land I see. //

456 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:11:26am

heh. Feline Overlords upset and others get plodey heads.

Arizona Diamondbacks announce new official mascot - LUCHADOR!
(I guess the bobcat is out.)

bleacherreport.com

457 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:13:11am

In camera news I settled on, and ordered, a Nikon 3200.

458 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:13:40am

Wingnuts seem to think that a filing of bankruptcy means the city will disappear or go away and….something. /

459 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:13:45am
460 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:14:00am

re: #459 Four More Tears

No because shut up

461 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:15:29am

re: #460 Bulworth

No because shut up

Right answer!

462 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:16:53am

re: #458 Bulworth

Wingnuts seem to think that a filing of bankruptcy means the city will disappear or go away and….something. /

They should know that that is not true since Donald Trump is still around.

463 Wile E. Wonka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:17:16am

re: #460 Bulworth

No because shut up

But HOUSTON!!1!

464 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:18:14am

Who owns Detroit real estate?

Besides Matty Maroun (who Vicious has repeatedly exposed as a troll), there’s the following:

Michael G. Kelly who owns more than a 1,000 parcels, many of which are dilapidated and who has been slapped with $100k in blight violations since 2005.

He’s hardly alone:

A Detroit News investigation found more than 5,000 city parcels are owned by 10 private landowners and their companies. Most amassed portfolios buying inexpensive parcels by the dozen at tax sales and holding on to them until they can be sold for profit.

They wont improve the properties themselves, and are instead waiting for municipal or state revitalization projects so that they can sell them back to the state at a substantial profit.

For instance, Kelly bought up a bunch of plots that are where the alternative to Maroun’s bridge would be located - so if it happens, Kelly stands to hit the jackpot.

Kelly and Maroun are flippers, but without actually improving the properties they buy in the interim. More than a third of Detroit properties are vacant.

But others see reason to bet big on improvement, including Dan Gilbert, who’s bought up 1.8m sf of space downtown, making him the biggest property owner downtown besides GM and the City of Detroit itself. He’s betting on revitalization - and hoping for the city’s financial picture to turn around (though how that happens he wasn’t sure when he was asked in 2012 - before the bankruptcy came down).

465 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:19:44am
466 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:21:17am

re: #381 Vicious Babushka

#NewDetroitCityMottos is still full of wingnuts gloating, and blaming the fall of Detroit on TEH YOONYUNZ!!!111

Yes, it was the unions’ fault. They’re the ones who decided to bring Toyota and Honda and Nissan here to eat into Detroit’s market share. They’re the ones who brought all the racial tensions here in order to have all white people (followed by all middle-class black people) flee north of 8 Mile, and destroy the city’s tax base.

Detroit isn’t an example of what happens when “liberals” run things (Portland is). Detroit is an example of what happens when racial tensions poison a region, and when a company (or trio of companies) is fat and happy and doesn’t know how to react to new competition and a changing business environment.

467 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:22:56am
468 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:23:02am

Anyway, when, some years from now, the oil industry collapses from competition from cheap solar power, and Houston has imploded the way Detroit has, I won’t need a reminder NOT to gloat like Erickson and Malkin and their minions, because I’m not a sociopath who celebrates the misfortune of other human beings.

469 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:25:36am

re: #464 lawhawk

I’m glad there are still successful business magnates like Gilbert who want to invest in the rust belt. Detroit (and other places like Cleveland and Buffalo) need him.

Whoever transformed Pittsburgh from the steel city that collapsed decades ago into the tech and medical city that’s growing today needs to be consulted big time on how to turn around the rest of the rust belt.

470 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:25:59am

re: #468 Ian G.

Anyway, when, some years from now, the oil industry collapses from competition from cheap solar power, and Houston has imploded the way Detroit has, I won’t need a reminder NOT to gloat like Erickson and Malkin and their minions, because I’m not a sociopath who celebrates the misfortune of other human beings.

I’m surprised none of these assholes have tweated “Let them eat cake” yet. Keeping ignoring the condition of the underclass that has been created and then left to rot and then they *really* decide they have nothing let to lose.

The social safety net is there to protect society. You let it fray and the disenfranchised might finally decide that they have to take what they need to survive. And things from there rapidly escalate into a bad area for a nation.

471 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:27:13am

re: #464 lawhawk

Matty Maroun (who Vicious has repeatedly exposed as a troll)

He’s a troll in the sense of squatting under a bridge and shaking down everyone who wants to go across it, not in the sense of posting stupid derp on Teh Internets.

472 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:29:13am

re: #459 Four More Tears

Anyone want to needle the wingnuts right now? Remind them that Houston’s mayor is a lesbian and a Democrat.

Or that a county-by-county electoral map of Texas shows that Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, and El Paso all went for Obama. Twice.

473 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:31:58am

re: #469 Ian G.

I’m glad there are still successful business magnates like Gilbert who want to invest in the rust belt. Detroit (and other places like Cleveland and Buffalo) need him.

Whoever transformed Pittsburgh from the steel city that collapsed decades ago into the tech and medical city that’s growing today needs to be consulted big time on how to turn around the rest of the rust belt.

Pittsburgh’s recovery took decades and also benefited from the seeds already being there like the top-flight medical facilities already there around the University of Pittsburgh. Plus non-steel industries that were hi-tech oriented and survived the downturn (PPG, ALCOA*, etc.)

Beyond that there are satellite steel industry towns up and down the valley that still are heavily boarded up and depressed like Braddock. Some have been recovering with their former mill sites going over to retail or other uses like Homestead.

* - ALCOA doesn’t have any active operations there. But their HQ is in Pittsburgh and their main research center is about 20 miles outside the city. The closest operation they had to the city was a small aluminum powder plant near New Kensington, but that was sold off in the early 90s.

474 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:32:25am

re: #420 Vicious Babushka

What right-wing racism?

Also, TVs are getting lighter, since we’ve mostly switched from CRT to LCD.

475 geoffm33  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:36:07am

re: #471 Vicious Babushka

….not in the sense of posting stupid derp on Teh Internets.

That you are aware of :)

476 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:36:21am

re: #473 Feline Fearless Leader

Pittsburgh’s recovery took decades and also benefited from the seeds already being there like the top-flight medical facilities already there around the University of Pittsburgh. Plus non-steel industries that were hi-tech oriented and survived the downturn (PPG, ALCOA*, etc.)

Top medical facilities seems to be what Buffalo, NY is trying to use to turn itself around. Roswell Park Cancer Institute, and UB and all that. Hopefully, it works. I want New York State’s little slice of the rust belt to get itself in better shape. The rest of upstate NY seems to be benefiting from investments in nanotechnology research that’s centered on the Albany region, but has been creeping westward of late (a former Kodak plant in Rochester was recently purchased for the purpose of converting it into a nanotech research center).

477 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:39:50am

re: #473 Feline Fearless Leader

Pittsburgh’s recovery took decades and also benefited from the seeds already being there like the top-flight medical facilities already there around the University of Pittsburgh. Plus non-steel industries that were hi-tech oriented and survived the downturn (PPG, ALCOA*, etc.)

Beyond that there are satellite steel industry towns up and down the valley that still are heavily boarded up and depressed like Braddock. Some have been recovering with their former mill sites going over to retail or other uses like Homestead.

* - ALCOA doesn’t have any active operations there. But their HQ is in Pittsburgh and their main research center is about 20 miles outside the city. The closest operation they had to the city was a small aluminum powder plant near New Kensington, but that was sold off in the early 90s.

Pittsburgh also had an early start, in the 1950’s. A government-industry coalition under mayor Davy Lawrence launched the ‘Renaissance’ effort in the face of problems that could no longer be ignored (‘smoke control’). it wasn’t just a figleaf, producing the new Point Park and the 3 signature aluminum skyscrapers downtown.

478 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:42:00am

re: #476 Ian G.

Top medical facilities seems to be what Buffalo, NY is trying to use to turn itself around. Roswell Park Cancer Institute, and UB and all that. Hopefully, it works. I want New York State’s little slice of the rust belt to get itself in better shape. The rest of upstate NY seems to be benefiting from investments in nanotechnology research that’s centered on the Albany region, but has been creeping westward of late (a former Kodak plant in Rochester was recently purchased for the purpose of converting it into a nanotech research center).

Rochester has some of the seeds going as well. UofR has a very good medical reputation (especially oncology). RIT should be a seed for hi-tech development, or at least a source school for engineers and such. Have to see how, and in what direction, the industrial base rebounds. And, to a degree, this is their second rebuilding since Kodak, Xerox, etc. was their recovery from when their prior fame as a flour and milling location waned.

479 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:44:12am

LOL DERP
Like Mitt Romney, fool?

480 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:44:50am

re: #477 Decatur Deb

Pittsburgh also had an early start, in the 1950’s. A government-industry coalition under mayor Davy Lawrence launched the ‘Renaissance’ effort in the face of problems that could no longer be ignored (‘smoke control’). it wasn’t just a figleaf, producing the new Point Park and the 3 signature aluminum skyscrapers downtown.

And “Renaissance 2” under Caliguiri was running when I moved there in the early 80s. That was further downtown revitalization including PPG Plaza and other new buildings.

I was always amused that some of the taller buildings in Pittsburgh (PPG Plaza) were up right next to some of the lowest (Market Square). I love non-uniform skylines. :)

481 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:46:40am

re: #479 Vicious Babushka

LOL DERP
Like Mitt Romney, fool?

[Embedded content]

Yes, what they mean is bring in private equity types, and do what they did to retail and other sectors.

482 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:47:17am

re: #477 Decatur Deb

PIttsburgh was losing gobs of population for a long time but never really gave up. It’s pretty steady right now, and even though there’s gobs of empty space, it’s not dumpy.

Doesn’t Rochester have a world class Symphony Orchestra? So does Pittsburgh- a lot of the relatively smaller cities up North have that feather in their cap.

483 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:49:02am

re: #481 Justanotherhuman

Yes, what they mean is bring in private equity types, and do what they did to retail and other sectors.

You mean, like the guy who destroyed Sears? Yeah that’ll work. *snort*

484 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:50:43am

I’ve got NO love for Moore (who rose to prominence after his documentary Roger and Me shredded how GM dissembled and failed the company towns that rose up around its facilities, but took to new levels with Bowling for Columbine and F9/11 among others), but how is anything he’s worth mine? Or anyone other than his soon to be ex-wife? That’s a logic-fail IMO. But it’s Moore, so logic and reasoning go out the window.

(added the key missing word)

485 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:52:41am

re: #482 dragonath

PIttsburgh was losing gobs of population for a long time but never really gave up. It’s pretty steady right now, and even though there’s gobs of empty space, it’s not dumpy.

Doesn’t Rochester have a world class Symphony Orchestra? So does Pittsburgh- a lot of the relatively smaller cities up North have that feather in their cap.

Up through the 90s Pittsburgh was still not a good place to find entry-level tech jobs (comp sci and engineers). Though that might have changed since then.

A lot of techies would take jobs in the DC/Baltimore area, work there and then a decent percentage would migrate back to Pittsburgh since once they had 3-5 years of experience they could get back into the job market there. Been there, done that.

I also knew people at university there who were constantly crying and whining about how much they hated the area/city and couldn’t wait to go elsewhere. In my opinion they did not know how good they had it since Pittsburgh is still a secret to many. “Smoky City” reputation and such, but really nothing like that and very affordable and interesting to live in. Though the public transportation still sucks and the Squirrel Hill Tunnel is a massive pain. ;P

486 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:57:58am

re: #480 Feline Fearless Leader

And “Renaissance 2” under Caliguiri was running when I moved there in the early 80s. That was further downtown revitalization including PPG Plaza and other new buildings.

I was always amused that some of the taller buildings in Pittsburgh (PPG Plaza) were up right next to some of the lowest (Market Square). I love non-uniform skylines. :)

That’s another hard-to-measure advantage. PGH is perhaps the most beautifully-situated city of any size. The mountain and rivers that make transport a pain also make it amazingly eye-pleasing. Did even when the smoke contributed to the ‘atmosphere’.

487 Gus  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 7:58:25am

re: #484 lawhawk

[Embedded content]


I’ve got love for Moore (who rose to prominence after his documentary Roger and Me shredded how GM dissembled and failed the company towns that rose up around its facilities, but took to new levels with Bowling for Columbine and F9/11 among others), but how is anything he’s worth mine? Or anyone other than his soon to be ex-wife? That’s a logic-fail IMO. But it’s Moore, so logic and reasoning go out the window.

“I’ve got love for Moore?”

488 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:00:00am

re: #487 Gus

Added the key missing word (which is: I’ve got NO love for Moore).

489 Gus  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:00:17am

re: #488 lawhawk

Added the key missing word (which is: I’ve got NO love for Moore).

Fix-ed. //

490 Gus  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:00:58am

In other news!

491 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:01:52am
492 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:01:56am

re: #490 Gus

Hard to beat an argument like that.

493 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:03:13am

re: #486 Decatur Deb

That’s another hard-to-measure advantage. PGH is perhaps the most beautifully-situated city of any size. The mountain and rivers that make transport a pain also make it amazingly eye-pleasing. Did even when the smoke contributed to the ‘atmosphere’.

Not to mention the Tomb of the Unknown Bowler.

:)

wikimapia.org

494 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:04:32am

Who owns Detroit’s debt? This doesn’t bode well; I mean can these people do better than banks? Probably not. Hedge funds are not covered by the same rule as the banks and are considered part of the “shadow banking” industry.

Hedge Funds Bulk Up in Bond Trading businessweek.com

“As banks abandon debt trading, hedge funds that bet on bonds and loans are pulling in money from investors and hiring traders. Debt-focused hedge funds drew $41.4 billion from pension plans, wealthy individuals, and other investors in 2012, the most since 2007, according to data from Hedge Fund Research. They managed a total of $639.7 billion as of March 31, HFR data show, surpassing stock-trading hedge funds, with $638.7 billion.

“Regulators are demanding that banks curb proprietary trading—betting with their own money—and hold more capital to back riskier investments. That’s allowed hedge funds to expand in businesses the banks are leaving, including distressed-debt trading and fixed-income arbitrage, a strategy that seeks to exploit short-term price differentials. “Hedge funds are playing in asset classes where they previously hadn’t played,” says Jason Rosiak, head of portfolio management at Pacific Asset Management. “

495 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:04:44am

Good morning lizards!

496 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:06:02am

re: #478 Feline Fearless Leader

New York must have a different municipality system than it’s neighbors? I remember going through some podunk towns that had borders that seemed to go on until the next town, even if it was 10 miles away. I always wondered if that cut down on sprawl.

497 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:06:14am

DERP
There is plenty of outrage, Dim Jim, just not at Obama, but at Walmart & McD.

498 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:08:18am

re: #493 Feline Fearless Leader

Not to mention the Tomb of the Unknown Bowler.

:)

wikimapia.org

Heh. My sister has a cabin on the Allegheny, just north of the old stockyard island (Now a Yuppie holding camp). It was a toxic slough when I was a North Side kid. Now she complains that the damn beavers keep stripping her birch trees. Saw an episode of a bass fishing contest that was filmed there.

499 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:08:20am
500 GunstarGreen  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:08:49am

Oh look, RWAHs conveniently ignoring NYC when talking about ‘Detroit fell because of democrat rule’.

Bunch of dishonest slugs.

501 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:09:42am

re: #490 Gus

In other news!

[Embedded content]

How is “your uncle is your father” even an insult?

502 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:10:17am

re: #485 Feline Fearless Leader

The U.S. Steel building is one of the better modern buildings out there. It doesn’t really come across in photographs, really. I like the absurdly overbuilt government buildings too.

503 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:10:29am
504 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:10:34am

re: #490 Gus

In other news!

I think I’m done trying to talk wingnuts down. You can’t help someone who either really enjoys acting like they’re mentally-challenged to troll reasonable people, or actually is a deeply stupid person.

I think they mostly are just complete derps who can’t be helped, since nothing you can say is going to give someone a better brain.

They just serve to drive moderates away from conservatism and the Republican party anyway, so I say let them derp on.

505 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:11:20am

re: #499 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Does this involve Mussolini’s chariot again?. Oh..wait.. Wrong bullshitter.

506 GunstarGreen  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:11:32am

re: #501 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

How is “your uncle is your father” even an insult?

Implying brother-sister incest between your parents.

Which, you know, makes sense as a response to “Here is a thing that Ted Nugent said [link to Ted Nugent]”.

Fucking toddlers, all of them.

507 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:12:51am

re: #506 GunstarGreen

Oh. I thought it was, like, ‘Instead of sleeping with your dad, your mom slept with your dad’s brother!”

I don’t have any uncle’s on my mom’s side, so it kind of passes by me.

508 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:13:14am

re: #506 GunstarGreen

Fucking toddlers, all of them.

They seem more like 12-year-olds to me. They can communicate, but it’s all childish derp.

509 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:13:23am

re: #407 Vicious Babushka

Nothing is more depressing than seeing people playing the slot machines at 6:30 AM.

Especially when they’re wearing the same clothes they were wearing at 6:30 PM the previous day.

510 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:13:35am

re: #484 lawhawk

[Embedded content]


I’ve got love for Moore (who rose to prominence after his documentary Roger and Me shredded how GM dissembled and failed the company towns that rose up around its facilities, but took to new levels with Bowling for Columbine and F9/11 among others), but how is anything he’s worth mine? Or anyone other than his soon to be ex-wife? That’s a logic-fail IMO. But it’s Moore, so logic and reasoning go out the window.

He’s a liberal, and liberals aren’t allowed to benefit under the capitalist system.

511 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:13:41am

re: #502 dragonath

The U.S. Steel building is one of the better modern buildings out there. It doesn’t really come across in photographs, really. I like the absurdly overbuilt government buildings too.

Legend has that Frank Lloyd Wright declared the Allegheny County Jail was the greatest building in town.

Image: Old-Alleghany-County-Jail-w-Bridge-of-Sighs.jpg

512 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:14:29am

re: #490 Gus

In other news!

[Embedded content]

Looking at the guy’s profile, he guy seems to be conflating you with Ted Nugent.

Still stupid.

513 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:14:30am

re: #509 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Especially when they’re wearing the same clothes they were wearing at 6:30 PM the previous day.

Worse, I’ve seen chain-smoking slots players up all night who have a very young child with them. Terribly depressing.

514 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:14:55am

re: #511 Decatur Deb

Legend has that Frank Lloyd Wright declared the Allegheny County Jail was the greatest building in town.

Image: Old-Alleghany-County-Jail-w-Bridge-of-Sighs.jpg

Just looks medieval to me. And all that implies.

515 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:16:28am

Looks like the kind of place the jailer from Wizard of Id works.

516 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:17:29am

re: #511 Decatur Deb

A town close to where i kind of grew up for some of the time was an old mill town, slowly crumbling. It’s been somewhat revitalized now, though it’s on a thin edge.

Image: American_Thread_Company_Willimantic_mill.jpg

Image: Windham-Mills.jpg

And here in NYC I happened, the other day, to pass by their headquarters in NYC, which I had never known about.

Image: amerthread.jpg

517 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:17:41am

re: #514 Justanotherhuman

Just looks medieval to me. And all that implies.

Yes, like medieval buildings it has seen a lot of schlock architecture come and go.

518 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:19:22am

re: #496 dragonath

New York must have a different municipality system than it’s neighbors? I remember going through some podunk towns that had borders that seemed to go on until the next town, even if it was 10 miles away. I always wondered if that cut down on sprawl.

From what I’ve seen of NY (outside of NYC, which I am generally unfamiliar with) they seem to be constructed on a county > township > village structure with most of the land incorporated in some way. And in the 1800s as areas settled more heavily the state sub-divided previously large counties.

NYC, on the other hand, consolidated in the same period. Before 1898 Brooklyn was an independent city and among the largest in the US. (If split off now it would be 4th in population behind the rest of NYC, Chicago, and LA.)

And among the larger cities you tend to see them roughly corresponding to a county. Brooklyn basically is Kings County, Philadelphia is Philadelphia County, etc. Get out to the smaller cities and they dominate, but do not totally enclose the county they are in; Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, Rochester and Monroe County, etc.

I think sprawl has a lot to do with terrain, population density, zoning/planning, and the area’s growth pattern*. Wide-open terrain puts less pressure on building up to gain office space and thus you get these sprawling cities with inner loops, outer loops, service roads, etc.

* - Pattern as in what was initially settled and built up, and then at what point the growth got explosive and how it was dealt with. You rarely get to tear everything down and start over. Though a fire can provide an opportunity. (Case in point is that Pittsburgh’s Point State Park partially came about due to a large warehouse covering most of the area burning in the 50s.)

519 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:20:13am

re: #516 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

A town close to where i kind of grew up for some of the time was an old mill town, slowly crumbling. It’s been somewhat revitalized now, though it’s on a thin edge.

…snip

And here in NYC I happened, the other day, to pass by their headquarters in NYC, which I had never known about.

Image: amerthread.jpg

South and east of Houston, near the old Mad Magazine HQ?

520 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:20:49am

re: #517 Decatur Deb

Yes, like medieval buildings it has seen a lot of schlock architecture come and go.

Brutalist architecture is actually some of my favorite.

Image: robarts_480.jpg

Image: micasavolb1.jpg

Image: 350px-Sangshad_3.jpg

Image: NY-BQ036_SPACES_G_20120502171528.jpg

cache.wists.com


But when you fuck it up, it’s really bad:

Image: san-jose-architecture-modern-post-brutalist-socialist-bauhaus-urban-costa-rica-capital-design-2.JPG

521 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:22:53am

re: #519 Decatur Deb

South and east of Houston, near the old Mad Magazine HQ?

I kind of walk around in a daze without reference to space or time, but I think it’s TriBeCa.

522 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:23:02am

re: #520 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Brutalist architecture is actually some of my favorite.

Image: robarts_480.jpg

Image: micasavolb1.jpg

Image: 350px-Sangshad_3.jpg

Image: NY-BQ036_SPACES_G_20120502171528.jpg

cache.wists.com

But when you fuck it up, it’s really bad:

Image: san-jose-architecture-modern-post-brutalist-socialist-bauhaus-urban-costa-rica-capital-design-2.JPG

What happens when you let game developers near the CAD machine.

523 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:23:17am

re: #498 Decatur Deb

Heh. My sister has a cabin on the Allegheny, just north of the old stockyard island (Now a Yuppie holding camp). It was a toxic slough when I was a North Side kid. Now she complains that the damn beavers keep stripping her birch trees. Saw an episode of a bass fishing contest that was filmed there.

“Yuppie Holding Camp”. Good one. :D

Yea, I biked in that area with a friend who worked on the environmental cleanup of that island. The remediation work was something fierce. On par with some of the work done with Neville Island.

There was an old cartoon about the rivers (Allegheny, Mon, and the Ohio) that showed a catfish and a carp swimming past litter and labeled (the 50s) and a second one with them swimming past unlittered bottom labeled (the 80s) with the carp commenting “I wish they would have left the TV”.

524 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:24:23am

re: #520 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

But when you fuck it up, it’s really bad:

Image: san-jose-architecture-modern-post-brutalist-socialist-bauhaus-urban-costa-rica-capital-design-2.JPG

Wow, who dropped the bomb?

525 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:26:44am

re: #502 dragonath

The U.S. Steel building is one of the better modern buildings out there. It doesn’t really come across in photographs, really. I like the absurdly overbuilt government buildings too.

I used to work in the USX Tower for years. The drop ceiling creaked in the wind down as far as the 8th-9th floors. The design actually called for a large planned deflection at the top due to wind pressure.

The government buildings (Court House, Post Office) are all classical 1920-30s stuff. You see the same in lots of cities such as Philly (Old Post Office) and DC (USDA Building). Almost like the government was building stuff to provide jobs…

526 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:28:19am

[facepalm]


Yeah, and much of it is in the hands of private developers like Maroun who are sitting on it without doing a damned thing.

527 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:30:31am

re: #525 Feline Fearless Leader

Never really understood why so many hate the Trans-American Pyramid.

Image: 528512586_055c60da4b_b.jpg

But here is pretty much my favorite architect ever at work:

Image: Hundertwasser-building.jpg

Organic brutalism combined with Andalusian Austrian who the fuck knows.

Image: 4525685252_d862822a68_b.jpg

Image: 800px-Hundertwasserhaus.JPG

528 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:30:49am

re: #526 lawhawk

[facepalm]

Yeah, and much of it is in the hands of private developers like Maroun who are sitting on it without doing a damned thing.

They’re sitting on it until they can flip it for a profit.

529 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:30:57am

re: #514 Justanotherhuman

Just looks medieval to me. And all that implies.

I have an 1980s published book on the architecture of Pittsburgh kicking around somewhere. Pages on each of the skyscrapers and other buildings of interest (some no longer there) as well as other sections pointing out small building details of interest.

Something else that a city can benefit from is having a good local PBS station that promotes the city and region well. Pittsburgh’s WQED did so with all sorts of short documentaries on the region and its history. Covered the rivers themselves, diners, amusement parks (Kennywood), and even “things that aren’t there anymore”.

530 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:31:39am

re: #523 Feline Fearless Leader

“Yuppie Holding Camp”. Good one. :D

Yea, I biked in that area with a friend who worked on the environmental cleanup of that island. The remediation work was something fierce. On par with some of the work done with Neville Island.

There was an old cartoon about the rivers (Allegheny, Mon, and the Ohio) that showed a catfish and a carp swimming past litter and labeled (the 50s) and a second one with them swimming past unlittered bottom labeled (the 80s) with the carp commenting “I wish they would have left the TV”.

The stockyards had a tremendous fire while I lived behind Heinz. Days of dark brown fog that smelled like stewing rats. The night sky and rivers had a distinct color at times—green for copper and red for iron. From Mt Washington you could see the red river and green river join, and keep their separate colors flowing towards Ohio.

531 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:32:24am

re: #527 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Never really understood why so many hate the Trans-American Pyramid.

Image: 528512586_055c60da4b_b.jpg

But here is pretty much my favorite architect ever at work:

Image: Hundertwasser-building.jpg

Organic brutalism combined with Andalusian Austrian who the fuck knows.

Image: 4525685252_d862822a68_b.jpg

Image: 800px-Hundertwasserhaus.JPG

I think those only work to a degree when surrounded by cookie-cutter buildings since they then stand out. A whole area of nothing but surreal would make you wonder whether your water had been spiked.

532 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:33:10am

NUGENT?? NUGENT???? ZOMFG.

533 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:34:28am

re: #530 Decatur Deb

The stockyards had a tremendous fire while I lived behind Heinz. Days of dark brown fog that smelled like stewing rats. The night sky and rivers had a distinct color at times—green for copper and red for iron. From Mt Washington you could see the red river and green river join, and keep their separate colors flowing towards Ohio.

OK. How do you know what a stewing rat smells like? O_o

534 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:36:59am

re: #533 Feline Fearless Leader

OK. How do you know what a stewing rat smells like? O_o

There were probably more rats than cows by body weight on the island. We tykes used to carry half bricks onto the high bridge for bombing practice. We didn’t have video games.

535 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:37:47am

re: #529 Feline Fearless Leader

Oh God Yes. The PBS stations I was getting in New York made mine seem like it didn’t even exist. Doctor Who vs. Lawrence Welk & Doo Wop parade.

536 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:38:27am

re: #534 Decatur Deb

There were probably more rats than cows by body weight on the island. We tykes used to carry half bricks onto the high bridge for bombing practice. We didn’t have video games.

Getting practice for the day when you have to go for that thermal exhaust port. I see.
:D

537 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:41:21am

re: #536 Feline Fearless Leader

Getting practice for the day when you have to go for that thermal exhaust port. I see.
:D

Since DF isn’t here…

“Stay on Target!”

538 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:41:37am

My PBS is so crappy, the local cable company started broadcasting the Philadelphia affiliate.

539 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:41:55am

re: #535 dragonath

Oh God Yes. The PBS stations I was getting in New York made mine seem like it didn’t even exist. Doctor Who vs. Lawrence Welk & Doo Wop parade.

When I lived in DC the main thing PBS did to me there was get me fully exposed to Dr Who (3rd and 4th Doctor.)

Also some exposure to the fact that all sides have their share of idiots. The Howard University sponsored station one morning had a couple of “scholars” on going on about how various black cultural things had been suppressed and their inventions stolen. Made me appreciate Conspiracy Brother when he turned up in “Undercover Brother” since he was stereotyping something which did exist.

540 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:42:01am

re: #497 Vicious Babushka

DERP
There is plenty of outrage, Dim Jim, just not at Obama, but at Walmart & McD.

[Embedded content]

I met a woman yesterday who was bitching about Obamacare because it was hurting her at work. I asked what she did. She works for a large pizza chain. She said she’d pulled four 12-hour shifts in a row but that she wasn’t getting overtime and they were trying to deny that she’d worked that many hours and that it wasn’t fair.

I pointed out that to get around a lot of the rules set up by the ACA, companies like hers were deliberately hiring people as part-time employees, scheduling them for less than full-time hours and getting rid of overtime so that they weren’t required to provide insurance. And that they’d fight to the death on any overtime hours she’d worked because the last thing her company or any other large fast food chain wants is to have to show that their part-timers are working full-time hours or longer. At that point, they’d run face first into the law.

She left our conversation vowing to look for a permanent full-time job somewhere else.

541 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:44:57am

re: #538 dragonath

My PBS is so crappy, the local cable company started broadcasting the Philadelphia affiliate.

I think part of that is due to funding squeezes. The smaller stations can’t afford to buy or fund programming, so their choices run to cheaper or lower quality programming. Which leaves it to the larger stations with deeper patron and corporate sponsor lists to carry the load.

542 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:45:24am
543 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:45:38am

re: #539 Feline Fearless Leader

Ok, that sounds almost as bad as an hour of the McLaughlin Report.

544 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:47:18am

re: #540 Lidane

Shit’s illegal. Next time show her the front end of the Labor Dep’t hotline.

dol.gov

545 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:47:48am

re: #531 Feline Fearless Leader

I think those only work to a degree when surrounded by cookie-cutter buildings since they then stand out. A whole area of nothing but surreal would make you wonder whether your water had been spiked.

It does well on its own, too, apart from other buildings.

Image: Hotel_Therme_Rogner_Bad_Blumau_Kunsthaus.jpg

546 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:48:15am

re: #532 Vicious Babushka

NUGENT?? NUGENT???? ZOMFG.

The wingnut reverse-meritocracy at work.
Is anyone else having trouble getting sleep after filling their head with derpy wingnut tweets in the evening? I think that I may need to lay off the LGF after 7pm.

547 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:48:32am

re: #458 Bulworth

Wingnuts seem to think that a filing of bankruptcy means the city will disappear or go away and….something. /

Unfortunately it didn’t work that way with Donald Trump either.

548 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:49:03am

re: #545 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It does well on its own, too, apart from other buildings.

Image: Hotel_Therme_Rogner_Bad_Blumau_Kunsthaus.jpg

Looks like a powder magazine of the Munchkin Defense Forces.

549 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:49:35am

re: #462 Feline Fearless Leader

They should know that that is not true since Donald Trump is still around.

Damn, beat me to it.

550 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:49:40am

re: #544 Decatur Deb

Shit’s illegal. Next time show her the front end of the Labor Dep’t hotline.

dol.gov

If I see her again I’ll mention it. I know she had a bunch of job postings she’d printed out with her and that she was pissed. She also said she had no problem calling someone about getting the money she’s owed for her work, so I would imagine that she’d be on the horn as soon as someone shows her that Labor Department info.

551 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:50:35am

re: #548 Decatur Deb

Looks like a powder magazine of the Munchkin Defense Forces.

I think it looks like a hobbit crack house.

552 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:51:28am

re: #531 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s great to see entire neighborhoods following a single aesthetic - like say Neve Tzedek in Tel Aviv - one of the world’s largest collections of Bauhaus inspired designs, but it’s great to see different designs jumbled together. In just my neighborhood in NYC, we’ve got the Corbin Building being restored to its former grandeur adjacent to the brand new Fulton Transit hub with its futuristic oculus, which stands across the street from the former ATT headquarters with its imposing and grand lobby. Next block over? That’s the WTC complex, with 4 WTC nearly done, the transit hub with Calatrava’s wings, and 1 WTC risen to its full 1,776 foot height.

Next to that? The Art Deco Church Street post office building and 90 West.

All those different styles blend and create a weird harmony - and add to that the St. Paul’s Chapel and you’ve got some great architecture and styles. City Hall and the former Newspaper Row next to that (now J&R Music World).

553 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:51:48am

re: #551 Vicious Babushka

I think it looks like a hobbit crack house.

Tom Bombadill’s brothel.

554 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:54:21am

re: #541 Feline Fearless Leader

IIRC, the last president of the station eschewed federal funding. It gets a lot of its funding from the local Diocese, which makes me wonder if that’s why some of the good ribald British comedies are missing. I know some local people were offended by one of them.

555 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:55:20am

When flash mobs go bad…

‘Flash mob’ of thieves causes chaotic night in Hollywood

The rallying cries shot out across Twitter and Facebook on Tuesday evening.

“Take the riot to Hollywood,” one expletive-laden message on Twitter beseeched. “Hollywood. 7:30.”

…A group of 40 to 50 people, mostly teenagers, heeded the social media calls and went on what police described as a rolling crime wave.

…The problems began shortly after 8:30 p.m. Tuesday, when 911 dispatchers started receiving reports of problems on Hollywood Boulevard near Vine Street — a stretch full of restaurants, clubs and shops. A group of a few dozen young people, callers said, was running in and out of traffic, knocking people over on the sidewalks and snatching their belongings. Some stole food and souvenir tchotchkes from stores as they went.

The fast-moving group moved east along the boulevard, and the calls for help kept coming. Responding officers were flummoxed by the mob, which splintered and scattered in different directions when confronted, only to come back together and then divide up again. Police officials hurriedly sent more than 100 officers from elsewhere in the city to Hollywood.

A strange game of cat and mouse ensued for the next few hours as cops searched for suspects over a large area stretching from Highland to Western Avenue.

In the end, 12 people were arrested on suspicion of robbery — 11 juveniles and one 18-year-old man. All of those arrested, police said, lived in South L.A. neighborhoods.

556 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:55:59am

re: #542 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

So, he can be charged with receiving stolen goods now, I think.

557 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:56:42am

Can your believe it? The Dumbest Man on the Internet is wrong again.

Gateway Pundit’s Jim Hoft titled a Wednesday evening blog post, “BOOM!… Rep. Darrell Issa Has Information That Will Link IRS Scandal ‘Into the White House’.”

Hoft had apparently become excited after Issa told Fox News’ Carl Cameron that Thursday’s hearing would implicate the Obama administration.

“What he said to me today was make sure to watch tomorrow’s hearing because he’s going to present the evidence to prove it,” Cameron explained to Fox News host Bill O’Reilly on Wednesday. “That he can get it right up all the way into the White House before it was all revealed.”

Unfortunately, Issa’s own witnesses testified on Thursday that there was no political motivation behind the scrutiny of tea party groups applying for tax exempt status.

But those allegations seemed to quickly fizzle before Issa finished the first round of questions to D.C.-based IRS tax law specialist named Carter Hull and Cincinnati-based IRS employee Elizabeth Hofacre.

“Ms. Hofacre, to your knowledge, do you know of anyone that you would say had political motives in the role of treating tea party groups?” the chairman asked.

“No, I do not,” she replied.

Hull was asked the same question and responded with the same answer.

Damn, wrong again.

558 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:57:12am

re: #552 lawhawk

It’s great to see entire neighborhoods following a single aesthetic - like say Neve Tzedek in Tel Aviv - one of the world’s largest collections of Bauhaus inspired designs, but it’s great to see different designs jumbled together. In just my neighborhood in NYC, we’ve got the Corbin Building being restored to its former grandeur adjacent to the brand new Fulton Transit hub with its futuristic oculus, which stands across the street from the former ATT headquarters with its imposing and grand lobby. Next block over? That’s the WTC complex, with 4 WTC nearly done, the transit hub with Calatrava’s wings, and 1 WTC risen to its full 1,776 foot height.

Next to that? The Art Deco Church Street post office building and 90 West.

All those different styles blend and create a weird harmony - and add to that the St. Paul’s Chapel and you’ve got some great architecture and styles. City Hall and the former Newspaper Row next to that (now J&R Music World).

Lived in NYC when they took down the old Penn Station. It had to go, but the loss of the columns was horrible. IIRC, there was an attempt to save all or some for repurposing, but they became landfill.

Image: station-1911-wiki.jpg

559 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:57:46am

*SIGH* I don’t know why I bother.

560 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:59:11am

re: #552 lawhawk

It’s great to see entire neighborhoods following a single aesthetic - like say Neve Tzedek in Tel Aviv - one of the world’s largest collections of Bauhaus inspired designs, but it’s great to see different designs jumbled together. In just my neighborhood in NYC, we’ve got the Corbin Building being restored to its former grandeur adjacent to the brand new Fulton Transit hub with its futuristic oculus, which stands across the street from the former ATT headquarters with its imposing and grand lobby. Next block over? That’s the WTC complex, with 4 WTC nearly done, the transit hub with Calatrava’s wings, and 1 WTC risen to its full 1,776 foot height.

Next to that? The Art Deco Church Street post office building and 90 West.

All those different styles blend and create a weird harmony - and add to that the St. Paul’s Chapel and you’ve got some great architecture and styles. City Hall and the former Newspaper Row next to that (now J&R Music World).

I presume you’ve been walking around taking pictures. :)

Once I get the new camera I will probably expand my Philadelphia walk and photo shoot sections. Should be able to get a lot of shots I wouldn’t even try with the Iphone due to insufficient zoom or lighting issues.

561 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 8:59:31am

re: #552 lawhawk

All those different styles blend and create a weird harmony - and add to that the St. Paul’s Chapel and you’ve got some great architecture and styles. City Hall and the former Newspaper Row next to that (now J&R Music World).

I occasionally visit a cartoonist’s blog where the guy muses about the very thing. It gives a town an organic texture.

562 geoffm33  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:00:22am

@Gus

563 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:00:37am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Shouldn’t they be training with potato launchers?

564 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:04:27am

I’m waiting for Pamela to blame the Detroit situation on TEH SHARIA. I am sure she won’t disappoint.

565 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:04:42am

re: #554 dragonath

IIRC, the last president of the station eschewed federal funding. It gets a lot of its funding from the local Diocese, which makes me wonder if that’s why some of the good ribald British comedies are missing. I know some local people were offended by one of them.

Pittsburgh used to have two PBS stations. WQED was the more high-brow station and showed the classical music, theatre, NOVA, etc. and was on almost 24/7. WQEX used the same offices and did most of the Britcoms, Dr Who, Red Green Show, and had limited broadcasting hours.

WQEX eventually sort of folded and the channel and frequency was sold to a Christian broadcasting network.

I miss the WQEX sign-off bit. There were a few variants of it and it was generally amusing. One ran while “Always Look On the Bright Side of Life” was playing and they’d send out for more credits since the song was still playing - so they’d start running fictional sports scores. :)

Another featured B-grade animation of an alien flying saucer destroying downtown Pittsburgh.

566 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:07:09am

re: #556 Justanotherhuman

So, he can be charged with receiving stolen goods now, I think.

I believe you are right. He could share a cell with his hero Snowden.

567 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:07:17am

re: #565 Feline Fearless Leader

Ooh, that reminds me… a Salem religious station just took over the best college station in my area, which means there are THREE religious stations left of 91.3 on the dial.

Worse than cancer, I’m telling ya.

568 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:07:32am

re: #565 Feline Fearless Leader

For a while I lived in Mr. Roger’s neighborhood—literally.

569 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:08:15am

re: #568 Decatur Deb

For a while I lived in Mr. Roger’s neighborhood—literally.

An area where sweaters are always hip and cool.
:)

570 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:08:47am

re: #567 dragonath

Ooh, that reminds me… a Salem religious station just took over the best college station in my area, which means there are THREE religious stations left of 91.3 on the dial.

Worse than cancer, I’m telling ya.

FM radio needs a third option after you get tired of country and western.
//

571 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:09:19am

re: #568 Decatur Deb

For a while I lived in Mr. Roger’s neighborhood—literally.

The Neighborhood of Make-Believe?

572 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:10:01am

re: #558 Decatur Deb

If you know where to look in current Penn Station in NYC you can see the vestiges of the old one - there are staircases and other details that have survived. Not many of them, but enough.

re: #560 Feline Fearless Leader

Haven’t taken pictures recently, but should try to do so when the weather cools down a bit. :)

573 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:10:04am

Oh shit

574 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:10:04am

re: #571 dragonath

The Neighborhood of Make-Believe?

Nope—Oakland, near the WQED studio.

575 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:10:45am

re: #570 Feline Fearless Leader

FM radio needs a third option after you get tired of country and western.
//

Why is it that all NPR readers have this droning nasal voice, that you never hear anywhere else than NPR?

576 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:11:05am

re: #573 NJDhockeyfan

Oh shit

[Embedded content]

Way too much on current topic.

577 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:14:24am

re: #575 Vicious Babushka

Why is it that all NPR readers have this droning nasal voice, that you never hear anywhere else than NPR?

I dunno, the lame highbrow variations on their goofy theme song kinda get to me.

578 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:17:29am

LOL

579 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:17:30am
580 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:18:00am

detroit.jalopnik.com

581 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:20:11am

re: #564 Vicious Babushka

That would make for a holy trifecta of wingnut resentment derp: Blahs, Islams, and Yoooonyans.

582 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:25:16am

re: #575 Vicious Babushka

Why is it that all NPR readers have this droning nasal voice, that you never hear anywhere else than NPR?

Needs more Andrei Codrescu?

:)

583 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:26:29am

re: #561 dragonath

One of the big stories in NYC real estate circles is Bloomberg’s efforts to rezone a whole bunch of Midtown around Grand Central. It would open up the area to a ton of new skyscrapers, but it could mean that some of the older buildings would go by the boards (changing the FARs and shifting air rights could enable towers to rival the Empire State Building for tallest in midtown).

The rezoning could be a boon to city coffers and enable a new generation of Class A office space, plus new residential in the city core.

The City has already seen some of the fruits of rezoning in places like Dumbo and Williamsburg where the industrial zones have turned into commercial and residential hubs.

584 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:27:34am

Morning all!

Actually, I’m kinda suprised it took so long for Detroit to file. I figured they were broke after they failed with the people mover thingy way back in the last century.

When I lived there it wasn’t in great shape, sad to think in so much time, it couldn’t pull itself together.

:(

585 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:30:10am

re: #583 lawhawk

One of the big stories in NYC real estate circles is Bloomberg’s efforts to rezone a whole bunch of Midtown around Grand Central. It would open up the area to a ton of new skyscrapers, but it could mean that some of the older buildings would go by the boards (changing the FARs and shifting air rights could enable towers to rival the Empire State Building for tallest in midtown).

The rezoning could be a boon to city coffers and enable a new generation of Class A office space, plus new residential in the city core.

The City has already seen some of the fruits of rezoning in places like Dumbo and Williamsburg where the industrial zones have turned into commercial and residential hubs.

In 1965 I lived in a 35.00/wk boarding house, a single-brownstone slum, at 39th and Park. If the Chrysler Bldg had fallen, it would have come in my window. The land must be $Zillion/inch by now.

586 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:33:21am

Herp derp:

587 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:33:28am

re: #500 GunstarGreen

Oh look, RWAHs conveniently ignoring NYC when talking about ‘Detroit fell because of democrat rule’.

Bunch of dishonest slugs.

They’re ignoring every freakin’ major city in the country, not just New York. Find a successful tech boomtown like San Jose or Raleigh or Austin, and it’s run by Democrats, just like Detroit.

588 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:34:39am
589 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:35:58am

re: #588 darthstar

Glenn Greenwald is all pissed at Detroit FOR TAKING HIS ATTENTION AWAY!!!!!

590 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:36:30am

re: #585 Decatur Deb

Along the same lines, the Empire State Building was built into the teeth of the Great Depression, and was called the Empty State Building for decades.

Now? The building’s on the selling block and there was just an unsolicited bids of $2 billion in cash for it. The owners are looking to take the building public.

The Twin Towers (WTC complex) had significant vacancies for the first 20 years it operated. It was only in the years right before Silverstein took it over in the 99 year lease that the complex was finally near full occupancy and making money for the Port Authority. The mall there was one of the most profitable in the nation.

591 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:37:56am

re: #586 Lidane

Oh I don’t know. I imagine plenty of other wingnuts could make the connection. But they’re busy derping other derp. //

592 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:38:31am

re: #588 darthstar

“The bankruptcy of Detroit reminds me of Drones and NSA surveillance….”

/

593 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:39:27am
594 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:42:39am

re: #574 Decatur Deb

Nope—Oakland, near the WQED studio.

Found a nice Wikipedia list on Pittsburgh architectural landmarks.
en.wikipedia.org

Also note that the WQED studio is right near this as well.
en.wikipedia.org

Very notable landmark when coming down 5th Ave towards Oakland.

595 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:42:54am
596 chadu  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:44:29am

re: #486 Decatur Deb

That’s another hard-to-measure advantage. PGH is perhaps the most beautifully-situated city of any size. The mountain and rivers that make transport a pain also make it amazingly eye-pleasing. Did even when the smoke contributed to the ‘atmosphere’.

One of the only cities on Earth with an entrance! (Fort Pitt Tunnel)

Can you hold your breath the whole way through? ;)

597 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:44:57am

As far as major cities go, the only ones with Republicans in charge appear to be Tulsa and Albuquerque.

598 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:45:45am

Do any of you realize how close we are to the one year anniversary of BENGHAZI???

Not sure I’ll be able to withstand the derp on that day.

599 Higgs Boson's Mate  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:45:56am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

The Idaho militiaman in that photo is patriotically shouldering an SKS. The SKS was designed in 1943. The Soviets took it out of front-line service in the 1950s. The SKS fires the venerable 7.62X39 round, also developed by the old Soviet Union. If I was a stout-hearted militia type who seriously planned to spend lots of time fighting the next revolution I’d take the good time and trouble to buy a weapon that fires the same ammunition as the government against which I’d be taking up arms.

On the other hand, he’s just buying the props he can afford to support his fantasies.

600 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:47:03am

re: #598 Bulworth

Do any of you realize how close we are to the one year anniversary of BENGHAZI???

Not sure I’ll be able to withstand the derp on that day.

It also happens to be the anniversary of 9/11.

601 chadu  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:48:05am

re: #529 Feline Fearless Leader

Something else that a city can benefit from is having a good local PBS station that promotes the city and region well. Pittsburgh’s WQED did so with all sorts of short documentaries on the region and its history. Covered the rivers themselves, diners, amusement parks (Kennywood), and even “things that aren’t there anymore”.

And Fred Freaking Rogers.

602 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:48:44am

Check out the comments in this Pages post for me?

Weigh in.

thanks!

603 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:49:45am
604 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:49:52am

re: #600 Vicious Babushka

It also happens to be the anniversary of 9/11.

Wow

It’s almost as if the Benghazi attackers knew!!!!

605 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:50:39am

re: #600 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts won’t remember that. BENGHAZI was so much worser than that. //

606 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:51:15am

re: #603 darthstar

“Drunk before Noonan” is pretty fcking awesome.

607 Political Atheist  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:51:49am

re: #595 NJDhockeyfan

Whaaa? Is he having a senior moment? Aldritch Ames. A mole leaks information. Just not all at once.

On February 22, 1994, Ames and his wife were formally charged by the United States Department of Justice with spying for the Soviet Union and Russia. Ames’ betrayal resulted in the deaths of a number of CIA assets.[34] He pleaded guilty on April 28 and received a sentence of life imprisonment. His wife received a 5-year prison sentence for tax evasion and conspiracy to commit espionage as part of a plea-bargain by Ames.[35]

In court, Ames admitted that he had compromised “virtually all Soviet agents of the CIA and other American and foreign services known to me” and had provided the USSR and Russia with a “huge quantity of information on United States foreign, defense and security policies.”[36] It is estimated that information Ames provided to the Soviets led to the compromise of at least a hundred U.S. intelligence operations and to the execution of at least ten U.S. sources.

EDIT
BTW
“Deaths of CIA “assets’. Hey FFS they died, can we call them people yet?

608 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:51:59am

re: #594 Feline Fearless Leader

Found a nice Wikipedia list on Pittsburgh architectural landmarks.
en.wikipedia.org

Also note that the WQED studio is right near this as well.
en.wikipedia.org

Very notable landmark when coming down 5th Ave towards Oakland.

Great list—Buhl Planetarium, Carnegie Museum, and the Gulf Bldg were pretty much my playgrounds (all were free, then). The people who ran the top of the Gulf Bldg as a tourist overlook were my great budds. They would give you Gulf roadmaps of anywhere, which I turned into primitive tactical games.

609 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:52:05am

re: #606 Bulworth

“Drunk before Noonan” is pretty fcking awesome.

She’s pretty funny. One of the co-creators of The Daily Show.

611 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:54:40am

FAIL

612 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:54:57am

Has the G.O.P. Gone Off the Deep End?

bwahahahahahahahhaaa!

613 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:55:24am

Dim Hoft is bleating again:

614 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 9:58:13am

re: #596 chadu

One of the only cities on Earth with an entrance! (Fort Pitt Tunnel)

Can you hold your breath the whole way through? ;)

Used to live on top of the Armsrtong tubes. Later I was a gradeschool cadet at a Catholic military reform school at the edge of town. We were allowed Sundays home if we kept our shit together, and one time I decided to walk (in uniform) to downtown through the Liberty Tunnels. The state police station there stopped me, called the school to make sure I wasn’t a runaway, and flagged down the next car. Cop put me in and told the guy to drive me to the downtown streetcar. Different times.

615 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:00:51am

re: #613 Lidane

Even when the wingnuts “win” they still must conspiracy-monger. And complain about how they are the real victims in all this.

616 Lidane  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:03:09am

re: #615 Bulworth

Even when the wingnuts “win” they still must conspiracy-monger. And complain about how they are the real victims in all this.

Hilariously, my first instinct when I saw Wonkette’s tweet was to wonder if she also thought of Dim as the Stupidest Man on the Internet. It was nice to be proven right. Hahaha.

617 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:07:10am
618 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:07:16am
619 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:09:18am
620 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:10:28am

re: #612 FemNaziBitch

Has the G.O.P. Gone Off the Deep End?

bwahahahahahahahhaaa!

something something Pope Catholic something something bear woods

621 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:11:27am


Yet his job left him outside the far more secure rooms and computers used by NSA hackers infiltrating foreign governments and the dozens of teams who build, test, and use the tools of espionage. Even in an agency where everyone has a security clearance, most employees are walled off from these operations. The former intelligence official explains that the highest-value secrets sit in computers that have an “air gap” around them: A person must physically be in the room to access what’s on them. Other data require encryption keys to access. “It’s like knowing where the rooms are but not what’s inside,” says Lewis.

In other words…Greenwald’s folly doesn’t have what he claims to have.

622 Kragar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:14:16am

re: #621 darthstar

YOU MEAN HE LIED?
///

623 Ian G.  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:14:44am

re: #613 Lidane

It really is amazing how wingnuts can’t deal with reality, so they have to create alternate realities where about people who might shake their worldview. So Trayvon is a drug dealer and a hustler. Sandra Fluke is a whore, etc. etc.

I first saw it with Pat Tillman. When confronted with facts about Tillman, like how he was an atheist and a fan of Noam Chomsky, the right just flatly dismissed it. “I don’t believe it” were the actual words from Sean Hannity. See, atheists hate America. Anyone who reads Chomsky hates America. Therefore, it’s impossible for someone who is an atheist and a Chomsky fan to risk (and lose) his life for America after giving up a pro football career.

624 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:15:25am

re: #619 NJDhockeyfan

Didn’t realize what this tweet was about at first….the Asiana plane crash victim.

625 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:15:32am

re: #608 Decatur Deb

Great list—Buhl Planetarium, Carnegie Museum, and the Gulf Bldg were pretty much my playgrounds (all were free, then). The people who ran the top of the Gulf Bldg as a tourist overlook were my great budds. They would give you Gulf roadmaps of anywhere, which I turned into primitive tactical games.

Heh. My brother and I did tactical games using my father’s GSA maps of the area in northern NY we lived in. (He had them for using with his boat.) We used counters from other wargames or pennies to mark units.

626 Kragar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:16:35am

Pa. GOP Chair Says Voter ID Law Reduced Obama’s Victory Margin In State

Pennsylvania GOP Chairman Rob Gleason’s comments came Wednesday during an interview with the Pennsylvania Cable Network. He was asked if the attention generated by the new law, which wasn’t in effect last November, had an effect on the election.

“Yeah, I think a little bit. We probably had a better election. Think about this, we cut Obama by five percent, which was big. A lot of people lost sight of that. He won, he beat McCain by 10 percent, he only beat Romney by five percent. I think that probably voter ID helped a bit in that.”

Gleason’s comment immediately called to mind remarks made by Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R). In a moment of candor at a Republican State Committee meeting last summer, Turzai said the voter ID law was “gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

GOP, your party for voter suppression.

627 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:17:14am

re: #597 dragonath

As far as major cities go, the only ones with Republicans in charge appear to be Tulsa and Albuquerque.

But is the latter due to Bugs Bunny recommending *not* to take a left turn there?
;)

628 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:17:48am

THIS IDIOT CAN NOT USE TEH GOOGLES.

629 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:18:36am

*DERP*

630 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:20:55am
631 Kragar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:21:36am

North Carolina Republicans Unveil Even More Restrictive Voter ID Bill

The state Senate bill, which would take effect in the 2016 election, removed half of the forms of identification allowed under the state House’s legislation, such as cards from the University of North Carolina system of colleges, state community colleges, local governments, private employers and law enforcement agencies.

Under the proposal outlined by state Senate Republicans, seven types of government-issued identifications would be accepted, namely driver’s licenses, passports, non-driver IDs and military or veteran cards. The state’s legislative session ends next week.

632 bratwurst  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:21:49am

re: #628 Vicious Babushka

THIS IDIOT CAN NOT USE TEH GOOGLES.

[Embedded content]

When I see “Constitutional Conservative” in someone’s profile, I read “Tea Bagger”.

633 Kragar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:22:09am

re: #630 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Great, another idiot who hates schools.

634 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:22:40am

re: #633 Kragar

Great, another idiot who hates schools.

heritage.org. OK I’m done now.

635 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:23:09am
636 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:23:38am

Once again, the RWNJs are not really ignorant, they are just peculiarly selective in the types of knowledge they choose to retain. They may not know what language is spoken in Brazil, or whether New Mexico is completely part of the United States, but they all seem to know that Detroit is 82.7% black. Go figure.

637 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:23:44am

re: #630 Vicious Babushka

Oh, Inez must mean “history” books by people like David Barton. ///

638 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:25:59am

re: #623 Ian G.

It really is amazing how wingnuts can’t deal with reality, so they have to create alternate realities where about people who might shake their worldview. So Trayvon is a drug dealer and a hustler. Sandra Fluke is a whore, etc. etc.

They’re part of a subculture that elevates people who parrot the subculture’s dogma, and punishes people for thinking. Of course this has completely fucked up anyone who adapted to the subculture instead of rejecting it. At some point they transition from not willing to think for social reasons, to not being able to think at all. It’s sad really.

639 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:26:24am
640 blueraven  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:29:48am

re: #573 NJDhockeyfan

Oh shit

[Embedded content]

re: #573 NJDhockeyfan

He’s dead, Jim

Suspect killed, officer shot as gunfire erupts during 18-hour standoff in Latrobe

Read more: post-gazette.com

641 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:31:02am

re: #599 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The Idaho militiaman in that photo is patriotically shouldering an SKS. The SKS was designed in 1943. The Soviets took it out of front-line service in the 1950s. The SKS fires the venerable 7.62X39 round, also developed by the old Soviet Union. If I was a stout-hearted militia type who seriously planned to spend lots of time fighting the next revolution I’d take the good time and trouble to buy a weapon that fires the same ammunition as the government against which I’d be taking up arms.

On the other hand, he’s just buying the props he can afford to support his fantasies.

Obviously, they have adopted 7.62x39 so they can use the same ammo as the North Korean and Albanian troops Obama will have to bring in when his own red-blooded American forces mutiny and go over to the Tea Party rather than start rounding up Christians and other gun owners.

642 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:31:10am
643 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:32:14am

re: #640 blueraven

Great that only the suspect was killed. The only thing better would have been if the perp hired a psychiatrist instead of getting a gun. I hope the officer is OK.

644 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:32:38am

re: #601 chadu

And Fred Freaking Rogers.

And Roberto Clemente.

645 Kragar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:32:46am

re: #642 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I’d say its the heroin cut with rat poison of the internet.

646 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:32:59am

Not again!

647 JeffFX  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:33:29am

re: #642 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Hilariously well phrased and totally accurate!

648 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:34:30am

bbl

649 blueraven  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:34:58am

POTUS in briefing room making statement on Trayvon Martin case

650 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:35:32am

re: #594 Feline Fearless Leader

Wow—spent an hour or so in your link, then bookmarked it. Amazing what you forget.

651 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:35:53am

re: #646 NJDhockeyfan

Not again!

[Embedded content]

In this case, it looks like the captives were older men; in their fifties to seventies. Weird.

652 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:37:29am

re: #651 Dr Lizardo

In this case, it looks like the captives were older men; in their fifties to seventies. Weird.

Someone could be farming Social Security checks.

653 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:40:07am
654 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:41:21am

re: #651 Dr Lizardo

In this case, it looks like the captives were older men; in their fifties to seventies. Weird.

Some women too.

(CNN) — Eight people have been held captive in a north Houston home, and some for as many as 10 years, police said Friday.

Four are men between the ages of 50 and 80 and the others are women who police characterized as suffering from mental illness.

One person has been detained for questioning. No charges have been filed.

655 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:43:21am

re: #646 NJDhockeyfan

Geeezusssssss

656 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:43:26am

re: #651 Dr Lizardo

In this case, it looks like the captives were older men; in their fifties to seventies. Weird.

Sounds like a “group home” scam to steal disability checks.

657 Stanley Sea  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:46:34am

Happy Friday!

Get ready for the RW to lose it’s racist shit.

658 Carlos Danger  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:47:04am

More Yahoo suckitude:

Image: Screen_Shot_2013-07-19_at_1.41.43_PM.png

“Race Hustlers and Poverty Pimps” is taken verbatim from a Limbaugh rant made almost five years ago.

659 darthstar  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:48:47am

One of my co-workers is off to Comic-Con in San Diego, so I just took his Iron Man action figure from his desk and stuck it in the freezer in the office kitchen, then took a picture of it and added the message, “Can you get back in time to save him from his cryogenic doom?” - figured he could show it off to the ladies at the convention.

I know, I shouldn’t encourage him, but I always fuck with the guy on Fridays. Didn’t think this one should be any different.

660 Higgs Boson's Mate  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:49:21am

re: #646 NJDhockeyfan

Being held captive for years is bad enough, but being held captive in Houston?
This is an obvious death penalty case if only because being held captive in Houston would feel about twice as long as being held captive elsewhere.

661 blueraven  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:49:52am

re: #649 blueraven

POTUS in briefing room making statement on Trayvon Martin case

Listening to this, I can safely say; There will be outrage!

662 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:50:57am

i felt called on to answer in kind

663 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:54:48am

re: #652 Decatur Deb

re: #654 NJDhockeyfan

Uh huh…..farming Social Security/SSI checks may be a distinct possibility in this case.

664 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:56:02am

re: #654 NJDhockeyfan

Human traffickers? Or someone along the lines of the Cleveland guy who had the three women kidnapped for years.

Either way, those folks who were just found sound like they’re going to need a whole lot of support.

665 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:56:03am

re: #656 Vicious Babushka

Sounds like a “group home” scam to steal disability checks.

Yup.

Sick Sad World…..not just a fictitious TV show from “Daria” anymore; it’s become real.

666 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 10:59:19am

re: #664 lawhawk

Human traffickers? …snip.

Have you checked the street value of an 80-yr old?

667 andres  Fri, Jul 19, 2013 11:55:07am

re: #269 Kragar

Puerto Rico tried for years to get their bases closed, and when their wish came true, they wondered where their economy went.

Sorry for the belated reply, but Puerto Rico’s economy was pretty much in the tank well before both bases closed (since the elimination of the 936 tax credits). Locally to both towns maybe.


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