Right Wing Blogosphere All Hopped Up on Hate Juice After Obama’s Statement

Pumped full of paranoia
Wingnuts • Views: 25,303

Well, I see the entire right wing blogosphere is still having a crazed orgy of overt racism today. The Zimmerman acquittal and Obama’s subsequent statement have given them a huge hit of hate juice, and it’s a little amazing how many wingnuts are out there ranting about “race war.” It’s some kind of obsessive paranoid racist fantasy, on a massive scale.

And one thing that’s definitely not helpful: when salon.com publishes disgraceful rubbish like this (the link goes to JM Ashby’s post, by the way). It’s hard to believe an editor actually signed off on this before it hit the web; the piece by Rich Benjamin (who’s African-American) compares President Obama unfavorably to Eric Holder, and asks the poignant question:

Some of us have an Inner Child. Others have an Inner N*gger. Is Holder the president’s conscience? Or his Inner N*gger?

(The N word is spelled out in full in the article.)

Whether you think it’s cool to publish something like that or not, and even if you think the fact that Benjamin is African-American himself gives Salon a license to publish it, there’s no denying the effect it has on right wingers.

Case in point: this gleeful post at breitbart.com by Larry O’Connor, who surely, by now, is aware of what will inevitably happen in their comment section following a post like this (it’s their business model): SALON: IS HOLDER OBAMA’S ‘INNER NI**ER?’

Not every liberal journalist was brought to tears over the President’s belated statement on the George Zimmerman verdict. Columnist Rich Benjamin at salon.com called the effort “safe, over-rated and airy” and compared it unfavorably to Attorney General Eric Holder’s recent address to the NAACP by asking the provocative question: “Some of us have an Inner Child. Others have an Inner Ni**er. Is Holder the president’s conscience? Or his Inner Ni**er?”

Take it away, Breitbart commenters!

NI**ER PLEASE!!!

[…]

Both aren’t worth 5hit.

[…]

It’s obvious to all people, except the MSM, that Obama and Holder have it out for the white man. They’re joined at the hip and nothing more than a two headed snake in the grass waiting to strike. If they get the House back in 2014, the country is finished..it’s almost there now

[…]

Well, birds of a feather flock together.

[…]

Holder is Americas top “NI**ER”

[…]

That would be Obummer, Holder is what was known as a House Ni**er. He is the person who keeps those slaves seeking freedom and liberty on the plantation. He keeps the masser informed on those planning an escape and ensures they are punished and whipped, killed if necessary. Holder is just like George Sores. Sores is a Jew who helped the Nazi’s. Sad isn’t it.

[…]

Holder is Obama’s inner bowel movement. Obama and Holder are two racist turds

[…]

That is a great statement and it avoids the n-word.

[…]

Please don’t forget that both Holder and Obama are ‘white - blacks’ or is it ‘black - whites’, so don’t forget their ‘inner cracker’.

[…]

Pretty soon the blacks wont want to claim them either.

[…]

Is Holder Mulatto too?

[…]

Now if I say ni33er, mine is deleted.

[…]

I’ve whipped better stuff off of the bottom of my shoes than these colored boys!

[…]

Barokeydoke is his own “inner n****r”

[…]

Nothing “inner” about it.

[…]

Shouldn’t that be ni**ah? Dats what Professor Jeantel said it bes new school

[…]

Barry & Eric Americas top “Wiggers”

[…]

They are both Ni**er’s!

[…]

Obama is morphing into a Jim Jones for the black community. He panders to their sense of victimhood while doing everything to magnify it and exacerbate it. This assures that his abused culties cleave to him.

This is turning very dark - very fast. We have never seen anything like it in America’s history. We watch - stunned - as Pandora’s box opens, Obama’s furies fly forth…

[…]

To quote Forrest Gump….N****r is as n****r does.

[…]

This is an anomaly no water melons were stolen… Can a scientist who studies this species comment? It seems like odd behavior and I was wondering if you have a theory on why no water melons were taken in this video. Truthfully I’m baffled. This is madness! (Followed by link to racist video —ed.)

[…]

Well, given that Holder is of Barbadian descent, and that Obama is of Caucasian/East African descent (assuming he isn’t really the spawn of FMD), then one could say that having an inner ni**er is the only legitimate bloodline that either has to being “down for the cause.”

[…]

Well, we were all thinking it.

Yeah, that’s pretty obvious, dude.

Jump to bottom

165 comments
1 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:40:31pm
2 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:42:20pm

“We’re not racist! See, just read our comments.”

3 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:42:50pm

aaaaand, reading those comments makes me feel so sick.

4 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:43:10pm

“Those were all planted!”

5 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:45:18pm

“Notice how you haven’t seen Killgore lately? Hmmmm?”

6 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:48:01pm

Must be BBQ day.

7 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:49:08pm

Besides the fact that the President and Atty General are, shhhh, don’t tell anyone, Black, they got what they wanted. A black teenager is dead, and his non black murderer is free. You’d think they’d be happy for 5 minutes. But nooo, you’ve got assholes claiming that Trayvon’s parents owe his murderer an apology(I am not saying this asshole’s name out loud or typing it again), more of them screaming “help, help I’m being oppressed”, even more of them screaming at the top of their lungs about how Liberals are the real racists and it’s all our fault that Trayvon is dead in the first place.

Hey assholes, you won something, go have a cookie and STFU for awhile.

8 Kragar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:54:33pm

Image: Looked_at_the_comments.jpg

9 lockjawcanbefun  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:55:44pm

This might be one of those times where I’m happy/relieved that my Opera browser and the disqus format don’t really see eye to eye.

10 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 1:56:29pm

OT Pardon me, pardon me, but I just can’t pass this up…

11 b.d.  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:01:00pm

Oy, I’m seriously thinking about tuning ALL of this s*it out and turning on American Idol. Hell, maybe the American public is on to something after all?

12 b.d.  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:01:46pm

re: #10 Gus

OT Pardon me, pardon me, but I just can’t pass this up…

[Embedded content]

Those really were some good roids.

13 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:03:55pm

re: #10 Gus

OT Pardon me, pardon me, but I just can’t pass this up…

[Embedded content]

14 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:04:38pm

re: #11 b.d.

Oy, I’m seriously thinking about tuning ALL of this s*it out and turning on American Idol. Hell, maybe the American public is on to something after all?

Real life doesn’t hurt as much when you’re dumb and numb.

15 engineer cat  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:05:06pm

teenagers next door having a bday party

all the music is at least 30 years old

what is up with that??

16 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:05:34pm

re: #15 engineer cat

teenagers next door having a bday party

all the music is at least 30 years old

what is up with that??

They have good taste?

17 Zamb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:06:36pm

Why is it only blacks can start a race war?

18 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:16:00pm
19 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:16:13pm
20 DobermanBoston  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:18:11pm

It seems more and more certain that a lot of White Nationalist types rode in with the Tea Party, and that large swaths of these new “populists” on the right are closet WNs. I don’t mean ordinary racists but people who buy into the whole deluxe package, that of imminent racial war, race “science”, New World Order conspiracies, etc.

I don’t know how else to explain all of this weirdness. From the giddiness on the Zimmerman verdict, to the citations of “The Bell Curve” in discussions on Detroit’s bankruptcy, to more innocuous things like regulars on Townhall singing the praises of Odinism, it’s starting to appear like something is very wrong.

21 prairiefire  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:20:22pm

re: #20 DobermanBoston

Beautiful Doberman avatar.

22 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:22:24pm

One correction Charles - the byline on the post at BobCesca.com is “J M Ashby”.

23 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:22:27pm

re: #20 DobermanBoston

It seems more and more certain that a lot of White Nationalist types rode in with the Tea Party, and that large swaths of these new “populists” on the right are closet WNs. I don’t mean ordinary racists but people who buy into the whole deluxe package, that of imminent racial war, race “science”, New World Order conspiracies, etc.

I don’t know how else to explain all of this weirdness. From the giddiness on the Zimmerman verdict, to the citations of “The Bell Curve” in discussions on Detroit’s bankruptcy, to more innocuous things like regulars on Townhall singing the praises of Odinism, it’s starting to appear like something is very wrong.

It’s shaken my belief that things will only get better in some natural, inevitable way.

This idiocy needs to be called out and pointed at and ridiculed at every chance.

24 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:22:42pm

I wonder if a sociologist could connect the hysteria of today’s wing nut with 1980’s vintage no nuker.

25 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:22:57pm

It’s not just the tea party types testing the racist waters nowadays.

26 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:25:03pm
28 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:27:49pm

Just. Fuck. This. Shit.

Unfortunately, I live in an area in the south that is a very conservative county (and only 5% Black), and don’t have the money to get the hell out. You can bet, though, that I’ve always found it hard to find any white people here that didn’t exhibit some form of racism. You don’t find minorities working in one owner and family owned businesses, and I’ve only found any minorities at all in corporate retail ones.

29 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:28:15pm

I’m not a racist, Obama hates white people

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:29:47pm

re: #22 Randall Gross

You’re right - corrected, thanks.

31 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:30:38pm

Watched the 3-part Ken Burns series on Prohibition for the first time the other night.

The arguments between wet and dry advocates haven’t changed. The concept that one can legislation morality hasn’t changed. Just insert the issue du jour and the voter maps are just about the same as they were for prohibition.

One person was quoted as saying that there were three types of people —wet, dry and hypocrites.

32 DobermanBoston  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:31:12pm

re: #25 Randall Gross

It’s not just the tea party types testing the racist waters nowadays.

Yes, I wasn’t meaning to imply they had a monopoly.

33 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:31:24pm

re: #24 SteveMcGazi

I wonder if a sociologist could connect the hysteria of today’s wing nut with 1980’s vintage no nuker.

I’m sure they could connect it with the US fascist movement of the ’30s.

34 DobermanBoston  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:31:39pm

re: #21 prairiefire

Beautiful Doberman avatar.

Thank you.

35 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:31:55pm

Aaaaaand now this.

36 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:33:12pm

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

I’m sure they could connect it with the US fascist movement of the ’30s.

I’m not that old.

37 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:35:12pm

re: #19 Gus

[Embedded content]

Loved the story about Kirk:

Something similar happened to one of the city’s best known black residents, former [Dallas] mayor Ron Kirk. While mayor, Kirk was dressed in a tuxedo at a charity event, standing beside his wife, who was wearing an evening gown. A man walked up and tossed his keys to Kirk, mistaking him for the valet. About that time, the real valet drove up with Kirk’s BMW. The mayor climbed into his car and drove off, carrying the man’s keys with him. As Kirk glided across Stemmons Freeway, he rolled down the window, cocked his arm, and flung them out.

38 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:36:17pm

I looked into the movie Seventh Son after seeing the previews at “Pacific Rim” and seeing “From the acclaimed series” in the credits… I was afraid that it was from another Orson Scott Card series, but it turns out there’s another series about a seventh son, The Spooks Books series, that’s looks like something Harry Potter fans might like.

Bottom Line: There’s no reason to boycott “Seventh Son” the movie because the bigotted ORC is not involved, associated or related in any manner.

Youtube Video

39 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:37:16pm

re: #32 DobermanBoston

Oh, & I wasn’t attempting to correct you either friend.

40 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:37:49pm

bbl

41 twisty  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:37:58pm

re: #28 Justanotherhuman

You don’t find minorities working in one owner and family owned businesses, and I’ve only found any minorities at all in corporate retail ones.

Ugh, truth. My old workplace hired its single non-white worker, Korean-American dude, basically on accident. He was one of the few who qualified for the job and they fell in love with him based on his resume (and European surname). They came back from the interview stunned. First thing out of my supervisor’s mouth: “He’s Asian!” Big fucking deal, you jackass.

42 DobermanBoston  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:41:20pm

re: #24 SteveMcGazi

I wonder if a sociologist could connect the hysteria of today’s wing nut with 1980’s vintage no nuker.

Ah yes, those halcyon days when Jackson Browne set US energy policy!

I’m no sociologist but the anti-nukers I remember and today’s wingnuts were both:
-Belligerent drama-queens
-Suspicious of science and scientists
-Fond of idealizing agriculture to an almost Maoist degree

43 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:46:41pm

re: #20 DobermanBoston

It seems more and more certain that a lot of White Nationalist types rode in with the Tea Party, and that large swaths of these new “populists” on the right are closet WNs. I don’t mean ordinary racists but people who buy into the whole deluxe package, that of imminent racial war, race “science”, New World Order conspiracies, etc.

I don’t know how else to explain all of this weirdness. From the giddiness on the Zimmerman verdict, to the citations of “The Bell Curve” in discussions on Detroit’s bankruptcy, to more innocuous things like regulars on Townhall singing the praises of Odinism, it’s starting to appear like something is very wrong.

You are absolutely correct except for the “closet” part of it. If you look at the leadership of many of the local tea parties you will find exact parity with leadership of the Constitution Party, The Council of Conservative Citizens, the Ron Paul Stormfront wing, the KKK, and the John Birch Society in many locales. There’s no “closet” involved with their overt racism. It’s when they started letting those creepy crawlies into the GOP tent that I exited in 2009.

44 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:46:47pm

re: #42 DobermanBoston

Ah yes, those halcyon days when Jackson Browne set US energy policy!

I’m no sociologist but the anti-nukers I remember and today’s wingnuts were both:
-Belligerent drama-queens
-Suspicious of science and scientists
-Fond of idealizing agriculture to an almost Maoist degree

I don’t know how to draw a Venn diagram but I guess that woul be the shared part but the Teabaggers would have a big racist part of their circle to themselves

45 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:46:54pm

re: #31 FemNaziBitch

Watched the 3-part Ken Burns series on Prohibition for the first time the other night.

The arguments between wet and dry advocates haven’t changed. The concept that one can legislation morality hasn’t changed. Just insert the issue du jour and the voter maps are just about the same as they were for prohibition.

One person was quoted as saying that there were three types of people —wet, dry and hypocrites.

This county was dry until a few years ago; that was when it had pretty much fully developed as a bedroom community of Charlotte and the new residents wouldn’t stand for it. Previously, you had to bring even beer in from another county. Now beer and wine is sold everywhere, there are bar/restaurants (but not stand-alone bars) and ABC stores (hard liquor is sold by the State). NC does not permit sale of beer and wine before noon on Sun, and ABC stores are closed. A county can be dry and towns within it still permit alcohol sales. Only one county, Graham, in the mountains, remains totally dry.

46 Kragar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 2:58:59pm

re: #35 Gus

Aaaaaand now this.

[Embedded content]

He was acquitted of murder, not for violating civil rights or wrongful death

47 The Mountain That Blogs  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:00:53pm

re: #35 Gus

Tell that to OJ Simpson.

48 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:07:50pm

re: #46 Kragar

Agreed, and yet their point in the very next paragraph has huge merit.
“However there are still actions the Federal government can take…” I think the totality of the letter does a brilliant job.

49 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:08:24pm

Image: fqZlibX.png

A point well-made.

50 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:21:12pm

re: #35 Gus

Aaaaaand now this.

[Embedded content]

WTF is she trying to say here?

“Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy
Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.”

So, full speed ahead, DOJ. The SC has you covered, even though the ACLU doesn’t think so and is trying an intimidation tactic.

And to think this woman has an African-American son. aclu.org

51 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:27:37pm
52 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:28:36pm

re: #50 Justanotherhuman

There is a reason DC officialdom & the President has downplayed the civil right violation charge. The more I reads up on that law and some of the case law the more I think the direction to send the effort and energy is not GZ but the larger issues of how law enforcement works, SYG, and a number of things about Florida.

How much evidence that George Zimmerman is a racist did the FBI find in the investigation already conducted? Little to none.

I get it how upset we all are at the acquittal. It just does not alter the law.

53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:33:23pm

re: #52 Political Atheist

How much evidence that George Zimmerman is a racist did the FBI find in the investigation already conducted? Little to none.

The FBI did not investigate whether Zimmerman was a racist. They investigated whether there was evidence of racial bias in the shooting of Trayvon, and didn’t find any strong evidence to substantiate it. That’s not nearly the same thing.

the more I think the direction to send the effort and energy is not GZ but the larger issues of how law enforcement works, SYG, and a number of things about Florida.

I don’t know what you mean. A lot of the stuff that’s being ‘sent’ is because of larger issues about how law enforcement works, as it played out in this case.

54 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:35:01pm

re: #52 Political Atheist

There is a reason DC officialdom & the President has downplayed the civil right violation charge. The more I reads up on that law and some of the case law the more I think the direction to send the effort and energy is not GZ but the larger issues of how law enforcement works, SYG, and a number of things about Florida.

How much evidence that George Zimmerman is a racist did the FBI find in the investigation already conducted? Little to none.

I get it how upset we all are at the acquittal. It just does not alter the law.

Agreed, putting George Zimmerman in jail is not going to address the very real problems with Florida’s laws, primarily SYG.

55 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:38:16pm

re: #54 Targetpractice

Agreed, putting George Zimmerman in jail is not going to address the very real problems with Florida’s laws, primarily SYG.

And the gun lobby will ensure nothing happens on that front.

56 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:40:15pm

re: #55 Varek Raith

And the gun lobby will ensure nothing happens on that front.

So we instead do…what? Try some convoluted “George Zimmerman is a racist” trial, gambling that this time we can catch him? What happens when that falls flat? Call the UN to see if there’s anything they can charge him with?

57 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:40:55pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

So we instead do…what? Try some convoluted “George Zimmerman is a racist” trial, gambling that this time we can catch him? What happens when that falls flat? Call the UN to see if there’s anything they can charge him with?

We will do what we always do.
Nothing.

58 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:41:37pm

re: #52 Political Atheist

There is a reason DC officialdom & the President has downplayed the civil right violation charge. The more I reads up on that law and some of the case law the more I think the direction to send the effort and energy is not GZ but the larger issues of how law enforcement works, SYG, and a number of things about Florida.

How much evidence that George Zimmerman is a racist did the FBI find in the investigation already conducted? Little to none.

I get it how upset we all are at the acquittal. It just does not alter the law.

I was upset at the tone of the letter, which implied that the ACLU thought it shouldn’t be prosecuted, even though the SC is on the side of it being done. And I would take issue with your assertion that the FBI found “little to none” evidence that Z acted in a racist manner in profiling TM.

Why can’t the DOJ concentrate not only on investigating Z’s actions and intentional profiling, and work on the suggestions in the letter about LE at treatment of minorities as well, at the same time? It wasn’t simple LE profiling that was at work in the Z case—it was a private individual, using the SYG law and later in his trial, “self-defense”, as excuses to profile a person that Z didn’t think should have been where he was and looked “suspicious”.

59 Lidane  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:43:29pm

re: #52 Political Atheist

Any DOJ investigation into Zimmerman himself and/or this farce of a trial is just a formality. I seriously doubt they’ll take GZ’s case any further simply because doing so would just exacerbate all the tension.

HOWEVER, I could see the DOJ looking more deeply into SYG laws and how they’re applied across racial lines. Do whites get to use those laws more frequently? What are the real world consequences of SYG? I can see the DOJ taking an active interest in those questions.

60 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:44:27pm

re: #53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The FBI did not investigate whether Zimmerman was a racist. They investigated whether there was evidence of racial bias in the shooting of Trayvon, and didn’t find any strong evidence to substantiate it. That’s not nearly the same thing.

For federal civil rights charges to stick, they will need strong evidence. They tried and failed to get that already. Which bodes poorly for the prospect of a successful prosecution by the federal gov.

I don’t know what you mean. A lot of the stuff that’s being ‘sent’ is because of larger issues about how law enforcement works, as it played out in this case.

What I mean is The ACLU is correct in at least the latter part of the linked letter above. They might also be right about double jeopardy, but time will tell.

61 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:45:56pm

re: #57 Varek Raith

We will do what we always do.
Nothing.

I’ll be honest, there’s not much that can be done going forward. The DOJ brings civil rights charges, O’Mara will bring in character witnesses as he did at trial who will testify that Zimmerman hasn’t a racist bone in his body. He promised as much at trial, when the prosecution proposed bringing in one of the ATF agents from the incident years ago, telling the judge if the prosecution brought their witness, he’d bring in 30 witnesses to counter.

62 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:47:10pm

re: #52 Political Atheist

There is a reason DC officialdom & the President has downplayed the civil right violation charge. The more I reads up on that law and some of the case law the more I think the direction to send the effort and energy is not GZ but the larger issues of how law enforcement works, SYG, and a number of things about Florida.

How much evidence that George Zimmerman is a racist did the FBI find in the investigation already conducted? Little to none.

I get it how upset we all are at the acquittal. It just does not alter the law.

Must concur. It might be different if Zimmerman had actually been a security guard or cop. But the standard for conviction of a private citizen on a homicide-related civil rights charge is very high, as Eric Holder himself has said. To convict, the federal government would have to prove Zimmerman intended to kill Martin and that Martin’s race played a major role in the forming of that intent by Zimmerman. There just is not enough evidence to prove such a thing.

What I really think Holder is doing is using the investigation to keep things calm. If he’d gone and announced two days after the acquittal that the federal government would not be filing charges, things might have gotten bad.

63 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:47:13pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

I’m not talking about Zimmerman in this instance. I’m past that. I’m talking about SYG and race issues. We will simply do nothing.

64 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:48:23pm

re: #59 Lidane

Any DOJ investigation into Zimmerman himself and/or this farce of a trial is just a formality. I seriously doubt they’ll take GZ’s case any further simply because doing so would just exacerbate all the tension.

HOWEVER, I could see the DOJ looking more deeply into SYG laws and how they’re applied across racial lines. Do whites get to use those laws more frequently? What are the real world consequences of SYG? I can see the DOJ taking an active interest in those questions.

We’ve already seen stats on this site that show whites are given more leeway and arrested many fewer times when killing Blacks than vice versa, and Blacks are more likely to be arrested for the same type of self-defense under SYG. tampabay.com

65 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:50:34pm

re: #63 Varek Raith

I’m not talking about Zimmerman in this instance. I’m past that. I’m talking about SYG and race issues. We will simply do nothing.

Probably not. We love to rage against stupid laws in other states, but tend to get uptight when other states start commenting on our own.

66 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:50:34pm

re: #53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Can the DOJ look at the Sanford Police Dept and see if there’s evidence of corruption or tampering with evidence or something along those lines?

I don’t know, when I was watching one of the medical examiners testify, the one who couldn’t remember anything about the autopsy, he looked scared to death. And then there’s the whole jury sequester issue, they were allowed to go bowling, out to dinner, see family members, etc. There was a witness for the defense that sat in the courtroom for days before his testimony, this isn’t allowed, witnesses are not supposed to talk to or hear the testimony of other witnesses. The juror that was on TV has a husband who is an attorney, who knows and went to school with Mark O’Mara, how the hell is that not an issue? Trayvon Martin’s Body sat in the morgue for days as a John Doe and no one even bothered to ask around that neighborhood to see if there was a missing teenager, AND they had his phone. The defense was all over the TV trying the case before it went to trial. There’s a long list of fucked up shit here, my question is does any agency have authority to investigate this clusterfuck?

67 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:50:53pm
What I really think Holder is doing is using the investigation to keep things calm. If he’d gone and announced two days after the acquittal that the federal government would not be filing charges, there’s a decent chance we’d have seen small riots.

Yeah, how about not speculating about riots, period.

68 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:52:11pm

re: #67 The Ghost of a Flea

OK, post amended.

69 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:53:26pm

Blah people and their rioting!

70 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:53:44pm

re: #66 A Mom Anon

Can the DOJ look at the Sanford Police Dept and see if there’s evidence of corruption or tampering with evidence or something along those lines?

I don’t know, when I was watching one of the medical examiners testify, the one who couldn’t remember anything about the autopsy, he looked scared to death. And then there’s the whole jury sequester issue, they were allowed to go bowling, out to dinner, see family members, etc. There was a witness for the defense that sat in the courtroom for days before his testimony, this isn’t allowed, witnesses are not supposed to talk to or hear the testimony of other witnesses. The juror that was a witness has a husband who is an attorney, who knows and went to school with Mark O’Mara, how the hell is that not an issue? Trayvon Martin’s Body sat in the morgue for days as a John Doe and no one even bothered to ask around that neighborhood to see if there was a missing teenager, AND they had his phone. The defense was all over the TV trying the case before it went to trial. There’s a long list of fucked up shit here, my question is does any agency have authority to investigate this clusterfuck?

Oh, the list of people who should be getting a visit from the DOJ in this case is quite long. Sanford PD, the ME’s office, the city manager’s office, and so forth.

71 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:54:13pm

re: #66 A Mom Anon

Can the DOJ look at the Sanford Police Dept and see if there’s evidence of corruption or tampering with evidence or something along those lines?

I don’t know, when I was watching one of the medical examiners testify, the one who couldn’t remember anything about the autopsy, he looked scared to death. And then there’s the whole jury sequester issue, they were allowed to go bowling, out to dinner, see family members, etc. There was a witness for the defense that sat in the courtroom for days before his testimony, this isn’t allowed, witnesses are not supposed to talk to or hear the testimony of other witnesses. The juror that was a witness has a husband who is an attorney, who knows and went to school with Mark O’Mara, how the hell is that not an issue? Trayvon Martin’s Body sat in the morgue for days as a John Doe and no one even bothered to ask around that neighborhood to see if there was a missing teenager, AND they had his phone. The defense was all over the TV trying the case before it went to trial. There’s a long list of fucked up shit here, my question is does any agency have authority to investigate this clusterfuck?

The state of Florida can investigate, although I’m not sure how far they can go to force changes.

72 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:54:47pm

re: #60 Political Atheist

For federal civil rights charges to stick, they will need strong evidence. They tried and failed to get that already. Which bodes poorly for the prospect of a successful prosecution by the federal gov.
.

I don’t think, with current evidence, there’s strong evidence. There is probably more stuff out there, though, since the original FBI sweep was very limited.

For one thing, we know that his brother and his father are racists.

What I mean is The ACLU is correct in at least the latter part of the linked letter above. They might also be right about double jeopardy, but time will tell

They’re looking to change the way double jeopardy operates, they know that they’re ‘wrong’ according to the current understanding of the law. And it’s a pretty weird time to fight that fight. Or I’m misunderstanding something.


I don’t things will quickly change. The justice system will remain systemically violent, black people will continue to be profiled and receive less sympathy from jurors, be believed less often as witnesses, receive longer sentences for the same crimes, etc. What it will take to fix this is not getting rid of SYG or what have you, but action to end the cycle of poverty in black communities— i.e. ending the drug war— and society simply improving and getting less racist, which is the responsibility of all of us to make happen.

73 Lidane  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:56:14pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

What I really think Holder is doing is using the investigation to keep things calm. If he’d gone and announced two days after the acquittal that the federal government would not be filing charges, things might have gotten bad.

And if he’d announced that they WERE filing charges it still would’ve gotten bad. Just look at all the right-wing freakouts just from something as simple as President Obama talking about the case. If they had pressed charges, I don’t doubt that some redneck teabagger would’ve opened fire somewhere in protest.

74 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:56:30pm

re: #59 Lidane

HOWEVER, I could see the DOJ looking more deeply into SYG laws and how they’re applied across racial lines. Do whites get to use those laws more frequently? What are the real world consequences of SYG? I can see the DOJ taking an active interest in those questions.

Take away the racial imbalance or cut it significantly and the whole criminal/penal code & jail system will work far better. SYG, all of it.

75 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 3:57:27pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

That was my thought. What power does the DOJ have in cases like this though? I mean this shit can’t be legal on any level so what kind of charges and trial would be forthcoming as a result of an investigation?

That then brings forth the question of all the other small town(and big city) trials in other places where the same kind of corruption and cover ups occur. How common is this crap and what can be done about it?

76 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:01:45pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

It’s shaken my belief that things will only get better in some natural, inevitable way.

This idiocy needs to be called out and pointed at and ridiculed at every chance.

Things will get better, perhaps in a bloody, effortfull way. This is a matter of faith, not reason.

77 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:01:46pm

re: #75 A Mom Anon

That was my thought. What power does the DOJ have in cases like this though? I mean this shit can’t be legal on any level so what kind of charges and trial would be forthcoming as a result of an investigation?

That then brings forth the question of all the other small town(and big city) trials in other places where the same kind of corruption and cover ups occur. How common is this crap and what can be done about it?

I’m not entirely sure. From the sounds of Sanford PD prior to this trial, it sounds to me like the fucking Keystone Cops. No telling how many other investigations have been sandbagged like this without public outcry.

78 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:02:40pm

re: #64 Justanotherhuman

We’ve already seen stats on this site that show whites are given more leeway and arrested many fewer times when killing Blacks than vice versa, and Blacks are more likely to be arrested for the same type of self-defense under SYG. tampabay.com

From that article:

The new law only requires law enforcement and the justice system to ask three questions in self-defense cases: Did the defendant have the right to be there? Was he engaged in a lawful activity? Could he reasonably have been in fear of death or great bodily harm?

What get my hackles up is the subjective, interpretive aspect of this kind of assessment. Social privilege, or lack thereof, colors the way that issues such as right to be there, lawful activity, and fear of death are interpreted in situ. As numerous black commentators have pointed out, blacks in the US are more likely to be suspected of criminality, more likely to be read as “becoming violent,” and more likely to be seen as “not in the right place.” Ergo a black shooter invoking SYG is immediately in an uphill struggle.

The same “questions” though, also skew against blacks in formulating a narrative of the risk posed by the person shot under SYG, as well.

79 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:04:30pm

re: #74 Political Atheist

Take away the racial imbalance or cut it significantly and the whole criminal/penal code & jail system will work far better. SYG, all of it.

Yes, but that is a matter of culture, not laws, as Barack Obama has made clear on many occasions. The racism in the culture of white people in some places needs to change, but if black people are going to close the gap the toxic culture of violence and failure in the inner cities must be cut back. That toxic culture did Trayvon Martin immense damage, despite his parents’ best efforts to prevent it from doing so, and the crime and violence it produces must be greatly reduced for the areas it blights to recover.

80 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:05:38pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

That toxic culture did Trayvon Martin immense damage,

How did the ‘toxic culture’ of black inner cities damage Trayvon, Dark?

81 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:06:29pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but that is a matter of culture, not laws, as Barack Obama has made clear on many occasions. The racism in the culture of white people in some places needs to change, but if black people are going to close the gap the toxic culture of violence and failure in the inner cities must be cut back. That toxic culture did Trayvon Martin immense damage, despite his parents’ best efforts to prevent it from doing so, and the crime and violence it produces must be greatly reduced for the areas it blights to recover.

Keep thinking it through, and you’ll arrive at Nation of Islam.

82 twisty  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:07:52pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

but if black people are going to close the gap the toxic culture of violence and failure in the inner cities must be cut back. That toxic culture did Trayvon Martin immense damage

Since when did we get to cast doubt on a white victim because of rampant white crime? You’re making a very questionable statement here.

83 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:09:14pm

Trayvon wasn’t even from the ‘inner city’.

84 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:09:45pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but that is a matter of culture, not laws, as Barack Obama has made clear on many occasions. The racism in the culture of white people in some places needs to change, but if black people are going to close the gap the toxic culture of violence and failure in the inner cities must be cut back. That toxic culture did Trayvon Martin immense damage, despite his parents’ best efforts to prevent it from doing so, and the crime and violence it produces must be greatly reduced for the areas it blights to recover.

What immense damage did Trayvon Martin have?

85 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:10:28pm

re: #84 Stanley Sea

What immense damage did Trayvon Martin have?

Before or after he visited the suburbs?

86 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:10:32pm

Let’s go for it,

list how Trayvon was a damaged young man.

87 twisty  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:11:15pm

re: #86 Stanley Sea

Let’s go for it,

list how Trayvon was a damaged young man.

Skittles are clearly inferior to Reese’s Pieces for one.

88 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:14:38pm

re: #80 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

He was exposed to gangs, drugs, and violence quite often, sometimes accompanied by entertainment that made such things look good. his parents were trying hard, but my read of the couple years before he was killed is that the malign forces in Trayvon’s life held the upper hand.

That is not to suggest Trayvon Martin was a bad person, or that he deserved to die. I am not saying either of those two things. what I am saying is he was exposed to bad influences and was harmed because of those influences.

I may not have said that last sentence entirely right, but I was unsure how to say it.

89 b_sharp  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:14:45pm

re: #87 twisty

Skittles are clearly inferior to Reese’s Pieces for one.

You killed the thread.

10 demerit points.

90 twisty  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:16:48pm

re: #89 b_sharp

You killed the thread.

10 demerit points.

Help help I’m being repressed!

91 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:17:43pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

I’m not entirely sure. From the sounds of Sanford PD prior to this trial, it sounds to me like the fucking Keystone Cops. No telling how many other investigations have been sandbagged like this without public outcry.

I don’t think there’s any way to come back around on Zimmerman. And as much as I don’t like the guy being out on the streets, I don’t think there’s a good legal case for pursuing him.

The absolute mess of the Sanford PD needs to be looked at. As does the prosecution office, since they’re the ones that apparently told the police not to take evidence. And I may not believe in big, global conspiracy theories, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a retired judge had grease with the local court, too.

More than that, SYG needs to be looked at hard. The Tampa article points out that if SYG is invoked and no charges are brought, no data is kept. So the functionality of SYG is off the books…which is freaking terrifying, that there’s a law that so critically changes the legal use of lethal force, and no one is tracking its implementation for larger trends.

92 b_sharp  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:18:38pm

re: #90 twisty

Help help I’m being repressed!

I can’t read that without hearing the sound of coconuts being banged together.

93 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:18:49pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

He was exposed to gangs, drugs, and violence quite often, sometimes accompanied by entertainment that made such things look good. his parents were trying hard, but my read of the couple years before he was killed is that the malign forces in Trayvon’s life held the upper hand.

That is not to suggest Trayvon Martin was a bad person, or that he deserved to die. I am not saying either of those two things. what I am saying is he was exposed to bad influences and was harmed because of those influences.

I may not have said that last sentence entirely right, but I was unsure how to say it.

With a little more parental guidance he could have turned out like Zimmerman.

94 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:19:36pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

He was exposed to gangs, drugs, and violence quite often, sometimes accompanied by entertainment that made such things look good. his parents were trying hard, but my read of the couple years before he was killed is that the malign forces in Trayvon’s life held the upper hand.

What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Why do you think you’re in a position to judge his life?

Holy shit, Dark. At my preppie-ass high school, a private school that was pretty much all-white, virtually all the kids did drugs, most of them drove drunk, got into fights, etc. etc. The crime rate where Trayvon lived (which wasn’t the ‘inner city’) was about double the national average, which blows, but you’re positing it like some poisonous miasmic cloud.

Why didn’t the drugs and violence that my preppie-ass classmates indulged in poison them?

(one minor revenge: One of my ex-classmates, who swore he’d never work at his dad’s company, is now VP at his dad’s company. Very minor revenge since I’m sure he’s making a quarter million a year there.)

95 b_sharp  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:20:53pm

re: #93 Decatur Deb

With a little more parental guidance he could have turned out like Zimmerman.

He was born with several strikes against him.

96 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:21:15pm

This picture is from 1973. I’m calling it ‘hope’.

Image: uMKo4gA.jpg

I hope that we can change.

97 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:21:37pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

No one will invest in large swaths of the inner cities unless it’s to boot the poor people out and gentrify the area, pricing the poor out of eyesight and earshot. And that’s just dealing with the actual physical space, there’s much more to deal with.

Gangs are substitute families, when you have strong family and community gangs stand little chance of gaining a strong foothold. Fixing this(and I am being simplistic I know this)is going to require massive investment of more than just money. It’s going to require honest leadership that understands what’s needed. It’s going to require a lot of investment in schools, law enforcement that is specifically trained and not allowed so much as an offhand racist remark, it’s going to require getting minority churches involved in community outreach and there are generations of mistrust and broken promises to heal. There’s GOT to be a valuation of human life, I’ve heard more than one white person say”those people just don’t value human lives”. Well who values theirs beyond lip service? You can’t continually treat people like subhuman crap and expect them to value themselves either. The whole failed drug war shit is a big ass part of this mess too, for profit prisons are one of the worst things that ever happened to any group of people in this country, but especially minorities. It’s going to take investing in good schools, it’s going to take patience and love in the face of anger and distrust, it’s a big fucking job and it has to start somewhere. Education and uniting broken families, treating drug addiction as an illness and not a crime, compassionate law enforcement(and that doesn’t mean weak, it means using good judgement and sound police practices- they do exist) would help a lot. You give people something to fight FOR and I’d bet you’d see a lot of people rise to the occasion and help clean up their own communities. But it’s a long haul and I don’t hold out hope of much getting accomplished since we’re so busy as a nation hating on each other.

98 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:22:02pm

re: #95 b_sharp

He was born with several strikes against him.

He was depraved because he was deprived.

99 b_sharp  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:23:12pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

He was depraved because he was deprived.

He was perceived as depraved.

100 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:23:37pm

re: #97 A Mom Anon

I strongly agree with most of what you said, but for-profit prisons are somewhat of a red herring. Only about 10% of prisoners are in for-profit prisons. In California, it is actually the prison guard union, which is shunned by all other unions, that’s the main anti-progressive force in the state in terms of law and order.

There is plenty of ways to make money off of public institutions, and while I loathe the idea of private prisons, there’s plenty wrong with the public prison system too, so much that there’s little to choose between them.

101 SteveMcGazi  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:24:03pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

He was exposed to gangs, drugs, and violence quite often, sometimes accompanied by entertainment that made such things look good. his parents were trying hard, but my read of the couple years before he was killed is that the malign forces in Trayvon’s life held the upper hand.

That is not to suggest Trayvon Martin was a bad person, or that he deserved to die. I am not saying either of those two things. what I am saying is he was exposed to bad influences and was harmed because of those influences.

I may not have said that last sentence entirely right, but I was unsure how to say it.

This is not helping. Martin was harmed by Zimmerman, not by a gang.

102 jaunte  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:24:47pm

re: #95 b_sharp

He was born with several strikes against him.

The governor of his state is a criminal, so there’s that.

103 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:25:21pm

re: #99 b_sharp

If you mean TM, he was perceived as a soft target, a trophy.

104 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:25:37pm

Also, what I just wrote had nothing to do with Trayvon that I’m aware of. He didn’t grow up in the best neighborhood, but so what? My understanding was that he was a pretty good student and even befriended a girl who was an outcast and bullied by her peers. That means something.

105 twisty  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:28:45pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

Kinda not sure why the whole black community is to blame when a teenager does dumb reckless teenager shit like petty theft, graffiti, truancy, etc. Obviously a troubled kid at that point but sadly he wasn’t given the chance to grow up and get his head together. The black community isn’t any more toxic than the “white community,” but it sure gets treated that way.

106 A Mom Anon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:29:06pm

re: #100 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I guess I meant more that there isn’t a lot of focus on rehabilitation in the prison system, it’s all about punishment. Most people are going to get out at some point, making their lives hell with no focus on how to keep them from coming back is the real issue, public or private.

107 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:29:16pm

It must be how I was raised. Mom was a single working mom when I was in elementary school, during summer vacations I stayed with this nice elder lady during the day. In a very Latino neighborhood. Canoga Park. My grandparents lived near 3rd avenue at Slauson in then south central LA. Heart of the Watts riots.

So I got to spend my time & play with the neighborhood kids of various ethnicity, blissfully unaware of those adult problems among them. During the watts riots the National Guard set up a base in an elementary school. Right across the street from the grandparents house. I never saw it but heard all about it later from the kids I knew. I just was never taught the racist lessons or way of life.

The downside is I have about the same ability to understand hard violent racism about as well as I could understand a 3 headed cat. One thing just does not seem any less bizarre than the other to me.

108 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:31:56pm

re: #106 A Mom Anon

I guess I meant more that there isn’t a lot of focus on rehabilitation in the prison system, it’s all about punishment. Most people are going to get out at some point, making their lives hell with no focus on how to keep them from coming back is the real issue, public or private.

I absolutely agree with this. I’m just saying that private prisons are not what has destroyed the idea of rehabilitation. The attitude pervades our society, that once you go to prison you are a tainted thing, to basically be discarded unless you show through massive personal merit that you deserve better.

109 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:32:03pm

Will “boys will be boys” ever apply to Black boys? Or is that only reserved for white ones?

110 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:32:18pm

re: #104 A Mom Anon

Also, what I just wrote had nothing to do with Trayvon that I’m aware of. He didn’t grow up in the best neighborhood, but so what? My understanding was that he was a pretty good student and even befriended a girl who was an outcast and bullied by her peers. That means something.

True, but he was also in Sandford because he had been suspended from school. I believe that was for a drug infraction, but I am not certain. He applied himself in class and didn’t skip school, but he had gotten into a good bit of trouble.

Again, not damning nor indicative of bad character.

I hate this topic. I’m constantly worried I’ll say the wrong thing and come off looking like a racist asshole, which I try hard not to be.

111 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:32:24pm

Welp I’m off to get clams for my linguine & clam sauce. It’s been a long time since I’ve made it. I’ll report back later.

112 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:32:56pm

re: #109 Justanotherhuman

Will “boys will be boys” ever apply to Black boys? Or is that only reserved for white ones?

Well, to be frank, you’d have work on the terminology.

113 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:33:28pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

He was depraved because he was deprived.

Upding for the West Side Story reference.

114 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:35:29pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

True, but he was also in Sandford because he had been suspended from school. I believe that was for a drug infraction, but I am not certain.

Try not to talk about this case when you’re not certain, Dark. I don’t have any clue why you think it’s a good idea, but don’t.

He applied himself in class and didn’t skip school, but he had gotten into a good bit of trouble.

Do you have any response at all to my 94?

115 freetoken  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:36:31pm

I notice that the Wikipedia entry on Salon:

Salon has been unprofitable through its entire history.

I see that Richard Benjamin has written a response to his critics, as an updated to article in question.

Part of me believes that media outlets (of any kind) simply run stories like this to get attention, and always will. Content is not as important as the traffic that is generated (which the Bratfrats demonstrate daily.) An article like Benjamin’s makes Salon get noticed. In my case Salon had totally slipped out of my consciousness, but now I remember again that it exists.

116 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:37:46pm

re: #114 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Try not to talk about this case when you’re not certain, Dark. I don’t have any clue why you think it’s a good idea, but don’t.

It’s hard for me to stay out of discussions, Obdi. I often have opinions and I have a serious need for attention. That’s not an excuse, its an explanation.

Do you have any response at all to my 94?

No.

117 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:40:06pm

re: #20 DobermanBoston

It seems more and more certain that a lot of White Nationalist types rode in with the Tea Party, and that large swaths of these new “populists” on the right are closet WNs. I don’t mean ordinary racists but people who buy into the whole deluxe package, that of imminent racial war, race “science”, New World Order conspiracies, etc.

My (much) older brother introduced me to The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, and (perhaps oddly) Yes when I was little. This would have been 1977-1978 or so. He didn’t just play the music for me. He picked it apart, analyzing it and explaining to my wee self why it was significant in the Big Scheme of Things, how it was different from stuff that came before it, and how it influenced stuff that came after. I don’t know that I understood it, but I thought it was AWESOME, in the same way that I thought it was AWESOME when Mr. Rogers showed “How People Make Crayons”

He played piano (pretty well) and guitar (somewhat less well), and he is the reason I picked up the guitar (pretty well) and the piano (nowhere near well enough). He taught me how to play “What Shall We Do With a Drunken Sailor” with some improvised, Halloween-themed lyrics that I can’t remember to save my life.

He is a man I have looked up to all my life, and practically idolized when I was a wee lad. He inexplicably caught Palin Fever in 2008 and has been full-metal wingnut ever since. He moved out of his thoroughly white neighborhood in Waco, TX after several of the elderly blue-haired residents literally died off and a few middle-class black and hispanic families moved in. It might be significant that this all happened after the election of Barack Obama.

Almost over night, he became a gun nut. In earlier times, my dad and I were the recreational shooters of the family, and during all that time my brother and his wife “didn’t want guns around their kids.” After my dad died, most of the guns were sold off, for better or worse. (I *still* regret not keeping the 1939-ish Browning Hi-Power. Never mind.) He suddenly bought pistols for himself and his wife after 2008. He got a concealed carry license around the same time I let mine expire. (Pro Tip: unless you carry a purse or are the size of a bus, truly *concealing* — as the law requires — any pistol adequate for self-defense is an enormous pain in the ass in a state where it’s over 90 degrees 4 months out of the year.)

He’s in his early 60s now. I can’t bring myself to discuss “political” issues with him anymore because I’m just going to get Fox News talking points and distilled sentiment from Hotair.com.

118 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:41:14pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Well, to be frank, you’d have work on the terminology.

I was speaking in generic terms. And I’m talking about minors, not the racist “boy” reference to actual Black adult men.

When my younger son was a teen, he got into some trouble involving a felonious B&E (he was much more difficult than his older brother). When I appeared in court with him, he was given the benefit of being the son of a white legal worker and allowed to be sent to his father in CA rather than jail. Not so lucky were the Black kids his age who were sent to youthful offender camps. I didn’t like the disparity at the time (I was working for civil rights attys, ironically), but I didn’t want to see him in jail, either.

119 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:42:43pm

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

It’s hard for me to stay out of discussions, Obdi. I often have opinions and I have a serious need for attention. That’s not an excuse, its an explanation.

I dunno, maybe in four years after I get my social worker degree I can help you, but fuck, right now it really seems like you just choose to do this.

For the record, Martin was suspended because of a baggie with ‘marijuana residue’ in it. There was no actual marijuana, no test done, and again, shitloads of white kids are getting high out there, and yet it’s not part of some ‘toxic culture’ to you. Why is that?

No.

Okay. Then are you agreeing that your whole tirade about poisonous black inner city culture is kind of off, since white teenagers tend to get hammered, get into fights, and do other stupid shit too— they just usually pay less of a penalty?

120 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:44:10pm

re: #118 Justanotherhuman

If I could pass up a good accidental straight line, I’d have a lot more friends.

121 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:44:51pm

re: #107 Political Atheist

It must be how I was raised. Mom was a single working mom when I was in elementary school, during summer vacations I stayed with this nice elder lady during the day. In a very Latino neighborhood. Canoga Park. My grandparents lived near 3rd avenue at Slauson in then south central LA. Heart of the Watts riots.

So I got to spend my time & play with the neighborhood kids of various ethnicity, blissfully unaware of those adult problems among them. During the watts riots the National Guard set up a base in an elementary school. Right across the street from the grandparents house. I never saw it but heard all about it later from the kids I knew. I just was never taught the racist lessons or way of life.

The downside is I have about the same ability to understand hard violent racism about as well as I could understand a 3 headed cat. One thing just does not seem any less bizarre than the other to me.

Why was it you were opposed to busing?

122 Kragar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:47:36pm

COMMENTARY: San Diego County Clerk is out and proud - as a homophobe

San Diego County Clerk Ernest Dronenburg outed himself Friday for all the world to see that he is a flaming homophobe.

The 69-year-old Dronenburg teamed up with noted anti-gay attorney Charles LiMandri from Rancho Santa Fe to petition the California Supreme Court to halt same-gender marriages because they believe that Proposition 8 is the law.

LiMandri, who was a prominent supporter of the discriminatory Prop 8 that took away same-gender marriage rights from Californians from 2008 until last month, is known to take any case that involves denying equality to LGBT Americans. On the Human Right Campaign’s NOM Exposed blog, LiMandri is called NOM’s nakedly hostile Founding Father.

NOM Exposed writes:

• Limandri refers to gay family members by saying he loves them but can’t support “their destructive lifestyle”

• He positions gay men as innately non-monogamous and describes our relations as “pathologic,” “deviant,” and “perverse”

• LiMandri warns of a “potential civil war in this country by imposing same-sex marriage on this nation”

• He denies that there is any genetic basis to homosexuality, instead using the “ex-gay” community’s beloved theories about fractured relationships with same-gender parents leading to gayness
…
Dronenburg seems to be in denial on a number of points.

• He thinks Prop 8 is still the law, even though the U.S. Supreme Court said Prop 8 supporters had no legal standing to contest District Judge Vaughn Walker’s historic ruling that Prop 8 is unconstitutional.

• He doesn’t think that he answers to state health-department officials who have legal authority over rules regarding the issuance of marriage licenses. He thinks he is autonomous and can decide for himself whether the County he represents should follow the rules of the state.

• He pretends in the petition, no doubt at the bidding of his homophobia attorney LiMandri, that he is “caught in the crossfire of a legal struggle over the definition of marriage” when in fact he IS the problem. Dronenburg is disobeying orders from the state, from Gov. Jerry Brown and from state Attorney General Kamala D. Harris.

In reality, Dronenburg is derelict of his duties, he is failing to serve all San Diegans he was elected to represent, and he deserves punishment at the ballot box should he choose to stand for re-election.

123 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:51:07pm

re: #120 Decatur Deb

If I could pass up a good accidental straight line, I’d have a lot more friends.

It’s OK. The idea didn’t work out with his father, who is a RW jerk and really didn’t want to deal with him. He hadn’t seen him since he was a toddler; in fact, had never sent him or his brother a birthday card or Christmas present. So there was that. It was a truly bad idea, with long term consequences.

124 sagehen  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:51:41pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

He was depraved because he was deprived.

upding for the Krupke.

125 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:52:41pm

re: #123 Justanotherhuman

It’s OK. The idea didn’t work out with his father, who is a RW jerk and really didn’t want to deal with him. He hadn’t seen him since he was a toddler; in fact, had never sent him or his brother a birthday card or Christmas present. So there was that. It was a truly bad idea, with long term consequences.

If it makes you feel better, a B&E would have made him one of the Cool Kids at my reform school.

126 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:58:13pm

re: #122 Kragar

COMMENTARY: San Diego County Clerk is out and proud - as a homophobe

Actually, he should be removed from office for flouting the law and charges brought for malfeasance in office.

127 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 4:59:20pm

re: #126 Justanotherhuman

Actually, he should be removed from office for flouting the law and charges brought for malfeasance in office.


“The 69-year-old Dronenburg ..”

Self-solving problem.

128 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:01:09pm

Gotta get this off my clipboard.

129 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:03:57pm

re: #121 wrenchwench

Because parents often choose a home and neighborhood for good reason. The schools and the neighborhoods character. I wanted to finish my education in the same high school I started in. My opinion then and now was that I was not wanting to be a child cog in a social experiment of that very disruptive kind. The better solution IMHO was to improve the schools in south central rather than do the busing thing. Voluntary is fine.

130 darthstar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:13:26pm

When the right gets called on their sudden embracing of the N-word, they’ll end up blaming it on Trayvon’s girlfriend, whom Rush cited as making it okay to say.

131 darthstar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:14:05pm
132 darthstar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:14:48pm
133 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:16:49pm

re: #131 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Eh, that could be fun in the Transformers kind of giant robot way.

Now if you want BAD, there’s Lone Ranger or GI Joe: Retaliation… shudder.

134 darthstar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:16:51pm
135 darthstar  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:19:20pm

Check out what I did to my garage today! Managed to get 90% of the crap in boxes shelved, put the ski clothes behind the portable generator under the window, put all my wife’s cook books on shelves (pending building a bookshelf in the house for them), and got my surfboards off the ground.

Image: 1075296_10151752662818024_101630780_n.jpg

136 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:21:15pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

True, but he was also in Sandford because he had been suspended from school. I believe that was for a drug infraction, but I am not certain. He applied himself in class and didn’t skip school, but he had gotten into a good bit of trouble.

If you haven’t watched this video, watch it. If you have, watch it again.

Youtube Video

The fact is that society regularly turns a blind eye to criminal behavior by white people. It’s deeply engrained in most people to scrutinize the hell out of black men, to hold them to a higher standard and suspect the worst. The people doing this don’t even recognize the differential filters with which they view the world, they need to deny it in order to make peace with themselves. At the end of the day society is egregiously bigoted while refusing to believe this most obvious aspect about itself.

Martin and Zimmerman are just the most recent, blatant, in your face aspect of this. Martin got suspended for something that white kids get away with every day, and he got stalked for looking like a young black man, and he got killed by someone who suspected the worst about him for no justifiable reason. Zimmerman called the cops on Martin, and was recorded calling Martin a suspect, an asshole, and a fucking punk - all during an armed pursuit of Martin that the police attempted to dissuade him from. No rational society would look at Zimmerman’s behavior and not weigh his clearly prejudicial motives and state of mind as pivotal to judging the reasonableness of his defense. But we live in this society, where a white man can create the very hazard that he thinks endangers his life by stalking a black kid while armed, and then react to that hazard (the potential loss of his gun) by taking the life of his unarmed, innocent black stalking victim.

137 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:21:16pm

Okay I gotta go it’s my wifes birthday and I’m doing a lot of cooking and soon a little drinking. Or was that the other way ‘round? ////

Have a fine Saturday evening all!

138 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:22:08pm

.re: #133 William Barnett-Lewis

Eh, that could be fun in the Transformers kind of giant robot way.

Now if you want BAD, there’s Lone Ranger or GI Joe: Retaliation… shudder.

Was up at 0300 the other night—saw “Battleship”. Horrible movie with really great FX.

139 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:22:30pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Okay I gotta go it’s my wifes birthday and I’m doing a lot of cooking and soon a little drinking. Or was that the other way ‘round? ////

Have a fine Saturday evening all!

Happy birthday Dragon_Lady!

140 freetoken  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:24:56pm

re: #138 Decatur Deb

.

Horrible movie with really great FX.

In which it is in common with so many of the entertainment products today, whether intended for small or large screen.

141 AlexRogan  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:27:49pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but that is a matter of culture, not laws, as Barack Obama has made clear on many occasions. The racism in the culture of white people in some places needs to change, but if black people are going to close the gap the toxic culture of violence and failure in the inner cities must be cut back. That toxic culture did Trayvon Martin immense damage, despite his parents’ best efforts to prevent it from doing so, and the crime and violence it produces must be greatly reduced for the areas it blights to recover.

Damn, Dark, you really are a case…

142 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:27:49pm

From an LA Times photographer:

143 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:30:20pm

I’m going to post this next video hoping to lighten things up. It mixes Guns with Cute, but does not show the Cute shooting or getting shot. Enjoy:

Youtube Video

144 palomino  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:38:32pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

True, but he was also in Sandford because he had been suspended from school. I believe that was for a drug infraction, but I am not certain. He applied himself in class and didn’t skip school, but he had gotten into a good bit of trouble.

Again, not damning nor indicative of bad character.

I hate this topic. I’m constantly worried I’ll say the wrong thing and come off looking like a racist asshole, which I try hard not to be.

OK, then why do you keep commenting on Trayvon’s lack of model student status? How is it relevant that he, like kids of all races, wasn’t a perfect human being, especially during his teen years?

If Trayvon were a woman who had been raped, would her sexy clothing or slutty reputation be relevant? Of course not, because we don’t blame the victim. But you’re on that path with Trayvon…why?

145 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:38:49pm

Apparently my ship can go in reverse at warp 2.

146 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:40:06pm

It’s amazing how much of Derek Black’s deconstruction of White Nationalism in his letter to the SPLC applies to the modern GOP in general.

White nationalism supports the premise that multiculturalism is a failure, and that politicians trapped in a multicultural status quo are oppressing white people in “their own country.”

Where have we heard that before? Basically if you just remove the two references to Jews and Zionism in the paragraph that starts with that sentence you have the GOP treatise on multiculturalism in a nutshell. And the only reason you need to remove those two references is because of the weird two faced position the fundamentalist Christians at the GOP base take regarding Israel, due to end times prophesy and the need to hide their actual supersessionist doctrines.

147 Unabogie  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:40:36pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

I don’t believe this is accurate. He was suspended for writing “WTF” on a locker. It’s called “graffiti” in all the articles, but he wasn’t tagging gang signs. He literally just wrote “WTF”. In searching his bag for a marker, they found an empty baggy that may have held some weed.

And for that, his high school gave him a ten day suspension.

It should also be noted that in addition to being treated differently by the justice system, young black males are FAR more likely to be suspended from school than their white counterparts.

148 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:45:02pm

re: #147 Unabogie

I don’t believe this is accurate. He was suspended for writing “WTF” on a locker. It’s called “graffiti” in all the articles, but he wasn’t tagging gang signs. He literally just wrote “WTF”. In searching his bag for a marker, they found an empty baggy that may have held some weed.

And for that, his high school gave him a ten day suspension.

It should also be noted that in addition to being treated differently by the justice system, young black males are FAR more likely to be suspended from school than their white counterparts.

Give some grace for the freakazoid fear that gang infiltration of the hinterland has caused. In the worst case you have my daughter’s in-jail school, where any textbook with any markings by a student is destroyed.

149 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:45:09pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Okay I gotta go it’s my wifes birthday and I’m doing a lot of cooking and soon a little drinking. Or was that the other way ‘round? ////

Have a fine Saturday evening all!

I’m a master Pour a Little Sip a Little chef.

150 Stanley Sea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:46:48pm

re: #147 Unabogie

Welcome Hatchling.

151 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:52:17pm

Later, lizards.

152 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:53:22pm

re: #144 palomino

OK, then why do you keep commenting on Trayvon’s lack of model student status? How is it relevant that he, like kids of all races, wasn’t a perfect human being, especially during his teen years?

If Trayvon were a woman who had been raped, would her sexy clothing or slutty reputation be relevant? Of course not, because we don’t blame the victim. But you’re on that path with Trayvon…why?

Because what happened to Trayvon Martin wasn’t like a rape. He got into a physical altercation with George Zimmerman and leveled his opponent. Getting killed in a fight isn’t like being raped.

153 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:55:59pm

New Inspector Lewis coming on. BBL

154 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:56:55pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Because what happened to Trayvon Martin wasn’t like a rape. He got into a physical altercation with George Zimmerman and leveled his opponent. Getting killed in a fight isn’t like being raped.

No shit. You’re dead. And all because Zimmerman profiled and stalked him because he was a Black kid walking home. How has this escaped you?

155 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:57:08pm

I just got called a racist on the internet. I has a sadz. This means I’m going to go down to a beachside bar and drink microbrews in celebration.

156 BigPapa  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:57:50pm

re: #154 Justanotherhuman

No shit. You’re dead. And all because Zimmerman profiled and stalked him because he was a Black kid walking home. How has this escaped you?

They always get away.

George Zimmerman

157 bratwurst  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 5:58:01pm

The Snowden affair has proven to be a deep well of idiocy, and this column in Sunday’s The (UK) Independent by Irish journalist Patrick Cockburn (who appears to have difficulty keeping his eyes open) is certainly about as dumb as anything written on the topic:

Germany should honour its debt and offer NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden asylum

World View: When such figures as Albert Einstein fled the Nazis, the US provided a haven. Now it’s time for Berlin to offer asylum to the persecuted

Because…uh…Snowden is much like Einstein…and the US is much like Nazi Germany…or something.

158 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:00:30pm

re: #157 bratwurst

The Snowden affair has proven to be a deep well of idiocy, and this column in Sunday’s The Independent by Irish journalist Patrick Cockburn (who appears to have difficulty keeping his eyes open) is certainly about as dumb as anything written on the topic:

Germany should honour its debt and offer NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden asylum

Because…uh…Snowden is much like Einstein…and the US is much like Nazi Germany…or something.

Standard Idiot Tactic: When losing the argument, go with a Godwin.

159 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:02:37pm

Who wants to read some total bullshit?!

160 Gus  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:03:12pm

Germany should honour its debt and offer NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden asylum
World View: When such figures as Albert Einstein fled the Nazis, the US provided a haven. Now it’s time for Berlin to offer asylum to the persecuted

161 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:03:48pm

re: #157 bratwurst

The Snowden affair has proven to be a deep well of idiocy, and this column in Sunday’s The (UK) Independent by Irish journalist Patrick Cockburn (who appears to have difficulty keeping his eyes open) is certainly about as dumb as anything written on the topic:

Germany should honour its debt and offer NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden asylum

Because…uh…Snowden is much like Einstein…and the US is much like Nazi Germany…or something.

Not only that, but Raw Story has a piece by someone writing for the Guardian that attempts to conflate the situation of Zimmerman killing Trayvon Martin, and the racism involved, with Snowden stealing State secrets.

162 freetoken  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:06:23pm

re: #161 Justanotherhuman

UK media outlets need new material and for the UK in general the US offers all sorts of tempting material, already in English and without need of translation.

I wonder if many Brits are just so bored with their own domestic politics (and there is an election coming) and the ‘austerity’ measures being put forward by the government there, that they’d rather read sensationalistic stories about some American super-story.

163 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:15:53pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Because what happened to Trayvon Martin wasn’t like a rape. He got into a physical altercation with George Zimmerman and leveled his opponent. Getting killed in a fight isn’t like being raped.

And by what metric was Trayvon supposed to know he wasn’t about to be raped? Or robbed? Or killed for racial motives?

George Zimmerman was not a PI following Martin. He wasn’t Tom Cruise in Minority Report. He was the “unofficial” Neighborhood Watch…and take note that the actual Neighborhood Watch wouldn’t have let him go out armed, or done anything but call the cops and wait. He had zero justification to follow the kid. His own words to the operator demonstrate that he was not moved to pursue Martin by civic duty or moral drives, but because “they always get away.” So…what was his plan to let Martin not “get away?”

Addendum: It is an act of civic virtue to try and stop an act of violence or a crime in commission. It is a colossal, presumptuous fuckup to presume a “suspicious” person is guilty of something and pursue them.

Zimmerman fucked up by ALL the metrics of what he was supposed to do. Why would anyone being followed by him think he was anything other than a criminal, and respond accordingly?

You’re really, really reaching for some kind of factor that makes this kid’s death inevitable or predetermined, but nothing…NOTHING…negates that he did nothing that merited being stalked by an armed man intent upon vigilante justice; and that the armed man that followed him had no mandate or cause. Nebulous bullshit about his bad background is at best chaff, and at worst a leitmotif of victim-blaming.

164 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 6:19:49pm

re: #161 Justanotherhuman

Not only that, but Raw Story has a piece by someone writing for the Guardian that attempts to conflate the situation of Zimmerman killing Trayvon Martin, and the racism involved, with Snowden stealing State secrets.

I can think of one parallel. In each case, various media have turned a sow’s ear (Snowden or Zimmermann) into a silk purse (human rights martyr and persecuted hero).

165 palomino  Sat, Jul 20, 2013 11:00:09pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

True, but he was also in Sandford because he had been suspended from school. I believe that was for a drug infraction, but I am not certain. He applied himself in class and didn’t skip school, but he had gotten into a good bit of trouble.

Again, not damning nor indicative of bad character.

I hate this topic. I’m constantly worried I’ll say the wrong thing and come off looking like a racist asshole, which I try hard not to be.

Why do you have to “try hard” not to be a racist asshole?

Shouldn’t not being a racist asshole come sort of naturally to you?


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