1 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:30:45pm

Charles, I so want to break a BIG rule….

2 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:31:16pm

Gotta love the mental pretzel they twist themselves into to justify Snowden running first to China and then to Russia. That America “drove him” to these places, and even though their civil rights records are abysmal, at least they’re not the US!

3 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:39:54pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

Gotta love the mental pretzel they twist themselves into to justify Snowden running first to China and then to Russia. That America “drove him” to these places, and even though their civil rights records are abysmal, at least they’re not the US!

Haters don’t let the truth stand between them and their hate fix. We’ve seen that on the Right more frequently lately, but this should remind us that the left has its own people who act that.

4 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:42:19pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Haters don’t let the truth stand between them and their hate fix. We’ve seen that on the Right more frequently lately, but this should remind us that the left has its own people who act that.

The left has just so far avoided putting them into power.

And as long as the right keeps at it and the left keeps taking in the refugees, we should be fine.

5 piratedan  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:42:25pm

maybe someday, somebody in the media will actually look at what he’s (Snowden) actually done versus what his mouthpiece is telling us to interpret it as.

I don’t want to come off as thinking that our government as being that shining monument on the hill, not with all of the crap that has been done in the name of “freedom and democracy” over the last seven or nine decades. The thing is these guys have no answers either, they’re children dancing around a bonfire enraptured by the flames and they have no concept of what can happen if the flames get into the fields, the forest or work their way to the house.

6 bubba zanetti  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:43:57pm

Looks like Roy Edroso has Michele Catalano’s number.

7 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:49:02pm

Hey, what ever happened to that Russian oil tycoon Khodorkovsky?
Still in prison I guess.
All I know is, Putin doesn’t like competition.
Or LBGT.
Or girls who sing dissident songs…terribly.

8 Kragar  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 9:53:22pm

Looks like Chief Kessler hasn’t quite accepted the fact he’s a total whacko.

Chief Kessler’s Constitution Security Force

“UPDATE”

I HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THE FOLLOWING

THIS is about to get very interesting,

COUNCILMAN ERIC BOXER (D) , COUNCIL PRESIDENT DANIEL MALLOY (D) , MAYOR, MARY LOU HANNON (R) are going to have me terminated during this unjust thirty day suspension! Councilman ERIC BOXER (DEMOCRAT) leading the charge for termination by orders from MAYOR MARY LOU HANNON ( REPUBLICAN ) ALONG WITH COUNCIL PRESIDENT DANIEL MALLOY ( DEMOCRAT ) ARE conspiring behind closed doors for full termination, they needed to suspend first to allow themselves time to look for or make up any reason or lie

HEY BOXER, MALLOY , HANNON, YOU’RE COWARDS, YOU’RE HACKS, YOU PRETEND TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION,YOU SICKEN ME !

(Address withheld)

UPDATE! found out who is pulling the strings , senator David Argall republican Pennsylvania, Congressman Matt Cartwright Democrat, both have been instructing people to ignore Gilberton borough authority and go directly to Pennsylvania state police, the same agency that did this!

A volatile, gun toting nutjob with paranoid delusions. What could possibly go wrong?

9 jamesfirecat  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:05:27pm

Yes.

Next question?

10 Kragar  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:12:21pm

re: #9 jamesfirecat

Yes.

Next question?

Stuffing or potatoes?

11 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:14:22pm

re: #10 Kragar

Stuffing or potatoes?

CAN’T I HAVE BOTH???

And gravy.

12 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:14:34pm

re: #8 Kragar

A volatile, gun toting nutjob with paranoid delusions. What could possibly go wrong?

This country was founded on gun toting nutjobs with paranoid delusions.

Glenn Washington Beck

13 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:16:11pm

Oh, for fuck’s sake. I’ve never managed to see Chris Hayes’ show before, and now I wish I still hadn’t.

14 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:17:40pm

Well all of you now know how deep in I am in Doctor Who.

15 Kragar  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:18:25pm

re: #14 ProTARDISLiberal

Matt Berry.

16 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:18:55pm

re: #15 Kragar

Matt Berry.

George Lucas as writer.

17 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:20:09pm

re: #16 klys

Moffat has Head Writer, Alexander Siddig as the 12th.

18 gunnison  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:21:02pm
Does Being in Russia Undercut Snowden’s Claims?

Let me think, Russia, admittedly with restrictions and surveillance, but at least able to see the sky, or in the next cell to Ted Kaszyinski out there in Florence, Colorado?
Is that supposed to be a tough call?

19 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:21:35pm

re: #17 ProTARDISLiberal

Moffat has Head Writer, Alexander Siddig as the 12th.

I think you are missing the point of my comments, which is to see if I can make both you and Kragar twitch at the same time.

20 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:22:50pm

Oh… it’s going to be one of those threads.

21 Kragar  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:23:04pm

Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace - Episode 06 - The Creeping Moss From The Shores Of Shuggoth

Youtube Video

22 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:24:09pm

re: #20 Carlos Diggler

Oh… it’s going to be one of those threads.

I am responsible for nothing, except being slightly tipsy and wanting to avoid packing for a three week trip.

23 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:25:45pm

re: #19 klys

A bit to jaded for that here.

24 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:28:06pm

re: #23 ProTARDISLiberal

A bit to jaded for that here.

That’s what you think.

Justin Beiber.

25 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:29:40pm

re: #24 klys

I hope that little weasel gets comeuppance soon.

26 darthstar  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:31:34pm

re: #10 Kragar

Stuffing or potatoes?

Diamonds or pearls?

27 darthstar  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:31:59pm

re: #26 darthstar

Diamonds or pearls?

Sorry…thought this was a presidential debate and there was a female candidate on the stage.

28 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:33:37pm

re: #25 ProTARDISLiberal

I’m gonna take that as a twitch (the thought of him being the Dr.).

29 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:48:43pm

re: #28 klys

No, just the little wastrel in general.

30 sagehen  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 10:55:49pm

re: #18 gunnison

Let me think, Russia, admittedly with restrictions and surveillance, but at least able to see the sky, or in the next cell to Ted Kaszyinski out there in Florence, Colorado?
Is that supposed to be a tough call?

Howzabout… he could have planned ahead and been already in Iceland or Norway before the story came out and he could be identified? Most of Western Europe, for that matter.

Or if he’d converted to Judaism, Israel would take him in and not send him back.

We have no extradition treaty with Brazil, or a couple other Central and South American countries.

31 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:21:11pm

I’ve been thinking about this whole Snowden business; here’s my humble thoughts on the matter:

From what I see (and correct me if I’m wrong), the big “revelation” by Snowden is that the NSA is keeping records of our phone and surfing data (not verbal content of our calls, but who called when, etc.) and that these are the SAME RECORDS that the privately owned communication providers have been keeping for years (as has been common knowledge). These records were shared, likely in accordance the agreement record for which we give tacit permission for by acknowledging the “terms of service” that no one without a tinfoil hat and a life outside mom’s basement ever reads, contributing to the general ignorance of what’s going on.

Assuming a warrant (or in extreme cases relevant to national security, a military or executive order) is required for the NSA to access these files, which is my understanding, I can’t honestly see the huge deal in this provision, and it seems, as usual, the government agency is actually held to HIGHER standards regarding preservation of our privacy than the actual (privately owned) communication providers are. It seems the government has a long way to go in catching up to the ubiquitous invasions of privacy that commercial industry has been allowed to get away with, with much lower accountability, for a long time. There’s no huge “tyrannical invasion” of our rights here at all, at least nothing new.

This all being said, I have two points to make:

1) This ‘scandal’ doesn’t seem a big deal. Thus, it seems the NSA, thinking in their right minds, could have run some major preemptive damage control, without compromising their security, by simply being open about this simple fact. This strikes me as a major public relations screw-up on the part of our Intelligence operations - which is the real ‘scandal’ here.

2) Given this isn’t a major revelation, I don’t see how this makes Snowden much of a “traitor”; more just an attention monger, who may even believe he’s doing the “right thing” in his naiveté. Yes, he should be punished for breaking the rules he committed to, but I don’t see where this, considering all the above, should warrant a draconian sentence, and I hope, based on that knowledge, it doesn’t happen.

Again, I’m no expert on the matter; I’m just a layperson trying to keep up, and open to input on my insight or lack thereof.

32 gunnison  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:21:55pm

re: #30 sagehen

Howzabout… he could have planned ahead and been already in Iceland or Norway before the story came out and he could be identified? Most of Western Europe, for that matter.

Or if he’d converted to Judaism, Israel would take him in and not send him back.

We have no extradition treaty with Brazil, or a couple other Central and South American countries.

Hey, I’m not defending the guy’s planning, it was piss-poor. I have no idea why he didn’t wait, or demand that Greenwald wait, and get situated better while he still had his US passport.
He’d like to hop over to Venezuala, I guess, since they’ve indicated they would look favorably on his asylum request. But he blew that opportunity by outing himself while still in Hong Kong, then flew to Russia, ostensibly with the intent to fly to Cuba and on to S America, but then found his passport invalidated and couldn’t go any further.
Dumber than hell, but there it is.

But none of that is what the question at the top of this thread asks about. It’s asking if his being in Russia undercuts his claims. I don’t see how those two things are even related. Would being in Venezuela add credibility to his claims?
Of course not.

33 sagehen  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:30:26pm

re: #31 SidewaysQuark

My vagueish understanding is that private companies keep metadata for just a few months; they use it to tailor your search results, or they sell compiled stats on millions of people collectively as market research to ad agencies, etc.

What the NSA is doing is trying to collect it all and keep it forever; so if you come under suspicion for something in 2019, or 2025, or 2035, they’ll get a warrant then and go swimming in the data pool to get years and years worth of stuff about you (and then maybe pull warrants for whoever you used to talk to, etc.).

34 SidewaysQuark  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:36:31pm

re: #33 sagehen

My vagueish understanding is that private companies keep metadata for just a few months; they use it to tailor your search results, or they sell compiled stats on millions of people collectively as market research to ad agencies, etc.

What the NSA is doing is trying to collect it all and keep it forever; so if you come under suspicion for something in 2019, or 2025, or 2035, they’ll get a warrant then and go swimming in the data pool to get years and years worth of stuff about you (and then maybe pull warrants for whoever you used to talk to, etc.).

Then it seems to me properly issued warrants would be the issue, rather than the fact data is shared. And yes, the way warrants are too often handed out willy-nilly is a serious concern of mine.

35 klys  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:44:23pm

re: #32 gunnison

But none of that is what the question at the top of this thread asks about. It’s asking if his being in Russia undercuts his claims. I don’t see how those two things are even related. Would being in Venezuela add credibility to his claims?
Of course not.

I think the difference here comes not from where he is but what he has said about the places he has been in contrast to the US - he’s had a number of statements praising Russia for law triumphing over “the illegal actions of the Obama administration” for example. At the same time, he’s claimed that what prompted his actions was principle - the idea that a nation shouldn’t be spying on its own people.

That’s what prompts the question and that’s what makes it ironic. Too bad he’s too wrapped up in …whatever… that he can’t see that.

Standing up for principle means taking the consequences of your actions, because your principles mean more than the law. Not trying to dodge them. Conversely, it’s really hard to argue from principle when you’re trying to dodge the consequences of your actions.

36 Spocomptonite  Thu, Aug 1, 2013 11:59:52pm

I don’t think it undercuts his claims exactly, but it certainly puts on display his naivety and total ignorance of the world if he felt surveillance and intelligence gathering by the U.S. was so bad that he fled to CHINA AND RUSSIA to escape it.

The guy’s just a total idiot in everything he does. I can’t wait to see what he does in Russia.

37 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:00:52am

re: #36 Spocomptonite

I am definitely not buying Greenwald’s claims of Snowden being terribly clever. Or intelligent.

38 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:16:21am

Ok. Question for the Lizards:

I am in a wedding a week from Saturday. The bridesmaids’ dresses are a …unique… purple. He has a purple tie that I got him 4 years ago because I like the color purple and it was on sale. (He never wears ties anyway, it was a lark.) By chance, one of the shades of purple matches the dress.

He insisted on bringing back-up ties. I am insisting that he wear this tie once and it is a perfect opportunity since I will match. And it’s not like I picked the color of the damn dress either.

Unreasonable: yes or no?

(This will be the 3rd? 4th? time I will ever see him wear a tie. Two of those were my grandparents’ funerals, once was meeting my parents. I’m kind of hard pressed to come up with a 4th.)

39 freetoken  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:21:24am

re: #38 klys

Not clear on what exactly is the conundrum, but a tie in the hand is worth two in the closet.

40 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:24:03am

re: #39 freetoken

Not clear on what exactly is the conundrum, but a tie in the hand is worth two in the closet.

He says it will be a sign of his love for me if he wears the purple tie (while making noises about it occasionally being a challenge to be married to me).

I say it will be a sign of my love for him if the “backup” ties make it into the car at all.

41 freetoken  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:27:47am

re: #40 klys

You mentioned “He” but it isn’t clear who “he” is or your relationship to him. Is he the groom, or in the groom’s party?

42 freetoken  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:27:59am

MP3 Audio

43 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:29:54am

re: #41 freetoken

You mentioned “He” but it isn’t clear who “he” is or your relationship to him. Is he the groom, or in the groom’s party?

Oh, sorry. :)

He is my husband and not in the wedding party.

44 freetoken  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:33:22am

re: #43 klys

Ok.

Not understanding why he wants “backup ties” if he never wears the things, but my feeling as a guy is that he ought to pick whatever ties he wants to take with him. It’s all mostly just a security thing anyway, sort of like a blankie. Used to take several ties on trips, just in case I needed them.

45 freetoken  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 12:33:53am

MP3 Audio

46 William of Orange  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 3:03:37am

What was wrong with Snowden’s assumption that anyone can be made suspicious? If you can get a visit by six law enforcement officers for just googling a “pressure cooker” and your husband was googling “backpacks”, then there is some weight there that his words are correct.

This is a paranoid society we’re living in.

47 Shvaughn  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 3:18:11am

re: #46 William of Orange

What was wrong with Snowden’s assumption that anyone can be made suspicious? If you can get a visit by six law enforcement officers for just googling a “pressure cooker” and your husband was googling “backpacks”, then there is some weight there that his words are correct.

This is a paranoid society we’re living in.

Sarcasm?

48 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 3:59:21am

re: #46 William of Orange

What was wrong with Snowden’s assumption that anyone can be made suspicious? If you can get a visit by six law enforcement officers for just googling a “pressure cooker” and your husband was googling “backpacks”, then there is some weight there that his words are correct.

This is a paranoid society we’re living in.

An audit by a private company of a fired employee’s work computer came up with searches the company felt (stupidly perhaps) should be reported to law enforcement.

Probably a few million people searched for pressure cookers and backpacks following the Boston Marathon bombing. The one guy who got a visit by local cops because his ex employer informed law enforcement sheds less light on Snowden’s words than the millions of others who weren’t contacted at all.

49 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:11:10am

re: #18 gunnison

Let me think, Russia, admittedly with restrictions and surveillance, but at least able to see the sky, or in the next cell to Ted Kaszyinski out there in Florence, Colorado?
Is that supposed to be a tough call?

I guess it’s an easy call if all Snowden wants to be known for is abject selfism. On the other hand it does smack of extreme hypocrisy to arrogate oneself to the role of free speech champion and purported whistleblower of abuse of power while hiding in and thus legitimizing a country with such an appalling civil rights track record. I think someone should ask Sergei Magnitsky what he thinks about the situation, but unfortunately that’s impossible.

50 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:22:23am

re: #46 William of Orange

What was wrong with Snowden’s assumption that anyone can be made suspicious? If you can get a visit by six law enforcement officers for just googling a “pressure cooker” and your husband was googling “backpacks”, then there is some weight there that his words are correct.

This is a paranoid society we’re living in.

That wasn’t Snowden’s assumption.

51 AntonSirius  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:25:56am

re: #27 darthstar

Sorry…thought this was a presidential debate and there was a female candidate on the stage.

Or a Prince fan

52 AntonSirius  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:31:00am

re: #38 klys

Ok. Question for the Lizards:

I am in a wedding a week from Saturday. The bridesmaids’ dresses are a …unique… purple. He has a purple tie that I got him 4 years ago because I like the color purple and it was on sale. (He never wears ties anyway, it was a lark.) By chance, one of the shades of purple matches the dress.

He insisted on bringing back-up ties. I am insisting that he wear this tie once and it is a perfect opportunity since I will match. And it’s not like I picked the color of the damn dress either.

Unreasonable: yes or no?

(This will be the 3rd? 4th? time I will ever see him wear a tie. Two of those were my grandparents’ funerals, once was meeting my parents. I’m kind of hard pressed to come up with a 4th.)

Since when were guys allowed to pick which tie they wore at a wedding, unless they were going stag?

Is this a victory for the Men’s Rights movement?

53 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:31:14am

re: #36 Spocomptonite

He wasn’t going to China, Russia, or to his ultimate destination to evade NSA spycraft or to avoid further searches. It was to avoid being arrested and being held responsible for his criminality by releasing classified documents which he was not authorized to do. He engaged in multiple violations of the Espionage Act. That’s why he fled. That’s why he’s on the run.

The fact that he’s now in Russia doesn’t undercut his claims; Greenwald is doing that aplenty. Each time Greenwald “reports” another new development or new NSA slide, it’s accompanied by a few important words - not without a warrant.

Greenwald is trying to have it both ways. Hyping the NSA’s ability to scour the Internet and electronic communications (which is its damned job btw Glenn - it’s supposed to be gathering intel to assist policy makers in making tough decisions that affect national security), and there are procedures in place to address when those electronic searches affect US citizens. It’s called warrants, and while we can question whether the warrant process is strict enough, the policy is in place and the NSA appears to have abided by it. Greenwald’s claims are really hypotheticals of what the NSA could do if unconstrained by US law and the Constitution.

Greenwald likewise ignores all the ways that foreign governments, including those of Russia and China have no such constraints or ignore what constraints are in place to spy not only on foreign entities, but citizens of their countries and engage in all kinds of acts that are clear violations of civil and human rights.

Snowden’s actions by going to China and Russia indicate bad intent, a plan to evade justice.

54 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:40:53am

Snowden did not plan well. He burned his bridges, and believed that he would only spend at most a few hours in the Moscow airport before boarding his connecting flight to Cuba which would then take him to Venezuela or Ecuador or Bolivia or wherever else he thought he might end up. Iceland was his first choice but they were having none of him.

Ms. Pokempner is just mouthing Greenwald talking points. She should STFU this is not a “human rights” issue.

55 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:49:48am

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

A company that fired a worker may consider reporting that to be a proper course of action considering that there have been so many workplace shootings and other incidents involving former employees that were fired. If they failed to inform law enforcement and the former employee did engage in acts of violence, the company may have had liability issues to contend with.

But as you note, the search terms took place after the Boston bombing, so those terms could have been in that context, and nothing more.

Of course, now all kinds of media outlets (including WPIX in NYC) are ignoring the updates and followup that show the search was initiated not by some Google search warrant or NSA or FBI action, but because a former employer spotted terms during a search of the former employee’s computer records and alerted authorities directly.

56 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:51:49am

Put another way, the Catalano incident highlights just how employers are able to check employee (former and current) computer searches and can be far more invasive in their searches than anything the government does - up to and including initiating a law enforcement search on the basis of the employer searches of employee computers.

57 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:52:04am

re: #38 klys

Ok. Question for the Lizards:

I am in a wedding a week from Saturday. The bridesmaids’ dresses are a …unique… purple. He has a purple tie that I got him 4 years ago because I like the color purple and it was on sale. (He never wears ties anyway, it was a lark.) By chance, one of the shades of purple matches the dress.

He insisted on bringing back-up ties. I am insisting that he wear this tie once and it is a perfect opportunity since I will match. And it’s not like I picked the color of the damn dress either.

Unreasonable: yes or no?

(This will be the 3rd? 4th? time I will ever see him wear a tie. Two of those were my grandparents’ funerals, once was meeting my parents. I’m kind of hard pressed to come up with a 4th.)

He will wear the tie that you picked out and like it.

The last time Zedushka wore a tie was at our son’s wedding in Alabama 2008, because our son insisted on it and even provided the tie, and knotted it around his father’s neck so he would look good in the pictures.

At our other son’s wedding in 2009, and our daughter’s wedding in 2012, no tie was provided, so none was worn.

58 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:07:18am

So, does this video prove that Chris Hayes is firmly up Snowald’s ass?

I was surprised that a HRW shill was allowed to piss on the conversation; in fact, I’m surprised that HRW supports this BS at all in this manner.

Hayes has never been this “fair and balanced” when Glennlandia is on his show, has he?

59 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:14:17am

re: #58 Justanotherhuman

So, does this video prove that Chris Hayes is firmly up Snowald’s ass?

I was surprised that a HRW shill was allowed to piss on the conversation; in fact, I’m surprised that HRW supports this BS at all in this manner.

Hayes has never been this “fair and balanced” when Glennlandia is on his show, has he?

I just wanted to punch Ms. Pokempner right in her lipstick-coated teeth and mess her hair up.

Snowden ended up in Russia BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT PLANNING THINGS OUT. It was not a deliberate decision on his part to choose a powerful nation that would “protect” him because they are “strong enough” to put a thumb in Obama’s eye.

I imagine that he was kind of desperate but his discomfort was not caused by “other countries being afraid of the U.S.” but by PUTIN BEING 100% IN CONTROL.

60 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:15:35am

Jim Maceda was reporting on MSNBC just now that Snowden is allegedly living with an ex-pat American family and doesn’t want to work in IT anymore, but prefers to become a “human rights activist”.

Now I understand how Human Rights Watch is involved in this.

Great way to smear your name, HRW.

61 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:17:14am

re: #60 Justanotherhuman

Jim Maceda was reporting on MSNBC just now that Snowden is allegedly living with an ex-pat American family and doesn’t want to work in IT anymore, but prefers to become a “human rights activist”.

Now I understand how Human Rights Watch is involved in this.

Great way to smear your name, HRW.

Why would he turn down a lucrative job at gay-torturing vKontakte, could it be that it would make Glenn Greenwald look bad?

62 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:17:40am

re: #60 Justanotherhuman

Jim Maceda was reporting on MSNBC just now that Snowden is allegedly living with an ex-pat American family and doesn’t want to work in IT anymore, but prefers to become a “human rights activist”.

Now I understand how Human Rights Watch is involved in this.

Great way to smear your name, HRW.

So Snowden wants to be a ‘human rights activist’?

In Russia?

That should go over well; I’m sure that he, with his immense prestige and standing on the world state, will have great influence on the various policies pursued by the Russian government.

LOLOLOLOL

63 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:20:29am

re: #62 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist

So Snowden wants to be a ‘human rights activist’?

In Russia?

That should go over well; I’m sure that he, with his immense prestige and standing on the world state, will have great influence on the various policies pursued by the Russian government.

LOLOLOLOL

I missed his statement about Pussy Riot.

64 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:23:45am

re: #63 Vicious Babushka

I missed his statement about Pussy Riot.

As did I. I also missed his commentary regarding Alexander Litvinenko, Anna Politkovskaya, the imprisonment of Pussy Riot members and the ongoing persecution of members of the LGBT community.

65 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:24:11am

re: #64 Dr Lizardo, Drooling Jingoist

As did I. I also missed his commentary regarding Alexander Litvinenko, Anna Politkovskaya, the imprisonment of Pussy Riot members and the ongoing persecution of members of the LGBT community.

They are less important than he is.

66 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:27:03am

Haha, we should all see GG’s “fine hand” in all of this, don’t you know.

Of course, Snowjob is doing a fine job of becoming as big a grifter as Klondike Barbie.

How are actual Russian dissidents, esp those jailed for far less than what Snowden did, going to view this privileged, bankrolled thief of American state secrets, and the fact that Putin paid far more favorable attention to him than the human rights violations they suffered under Putin? Surely there was some quid pro quo. Putin would never have allowed this without something in return, even if it’s just poking a finger in my president’s eye and the country in which I live.

67 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 5:28:41am

re: #65 Vicious Babushka

They are less important than he is.

How could I forget?

//

68 Flounder  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:02:53am

The President will be 52 this Sunday, I wonder what his favorite cake is?

I am hankering for some of my wife’s apple pie. Her secret? Slicing the apples thin.

69 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:06:52am

I wonder what good fake news we’ll get today?

71 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:31:41am

re: #8 Kragar

Looks like Chief Kessler hasn’t quite accepted the fact he’s a total whacko.

Chief Kessler’s Constitution Security Force

A volatile, gun toting nutjob with paranoid delusions. What could possibly go wrong?

Trayvon Martin unavailable for comment.

72 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:32:30am

re: #70 Varek Raith

‘Pastafarian’ Man Wins Religious Liberty Battle To Wear A Pasta Strainer On His Government ID Card
ROFL.

It’s sort of a slow news day…

73 Political Atheist  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:35:17am

Researchers at the University of Missouri at St. Louis followed about 2,600 students participating in gang-prevention programs in seven different cities over the course of seven years. They subjected some students to random police stops, even when they hadn’t done anything wrong, some to stops and arrests, while others were not stoppere: #66 Justanotherhuman

Rumor is his punishment will be forcing him to listen to Pussy Riot 24/7

74 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:42:43am

re: #73 Political Atheist

Researchers at the University of Missouri at St. Louis followed about 2,600 students participating in gang-prevention programs in seven different cities over the course of seven years. They subjected some students to random police stops, even when they hadn’t done anything wrong, some to stops and arrests, while others were not stoppe

Rumor is his punishment will be forcing him to listen to Pussy Riot 24/7

What does research prove when we already know who actually is stopped, according to statistics we have?

75 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:43:05am

re: #70 Varek Raith

‘Pastafarian’ Man Wins Religious Liberty Battle To Wear A Pasta Strainer On His Government ID Card
ROFL.

I don’t get the point he is trying to make. ThinkProg is trying to link this to “Hobby Lobby” denying contraception coverage to their employees, but this guy is in the Czech Republic. I don’t think he is protesting Hobby Lobby.

Is he pissed that Jews, Muslims and Sikhs get to wear headcoverings on their photo IDs?

76 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:46:06am

re: #75 Vicious Babushka

I don’t get the point he is trying to make. ThinkProg is trying to link this to “Hobby Lobby” denying contraception coverage to their employees, but this guy is in the Czech Republic. I don’t think he is protesting Hobby Lobby.

Is he pissed that Jews, Muslims and Sikhs get to wear headcoverings on their photo IDs?

Beats me. I was just amused at the pic. ^^

77 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:47:53am

re: #76 Varek Raith

Beats me. I was just amused at the pic. ^^

So he’s going to be laughed at every time he shows his ID. Why does he want Pastafarians to be subjected to mockery and ridicule?//

78 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:49:21am


Derp.

79 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:49:49am

re: #77 Vicious Babushka

So he’s going to be laughed at every time he shows his ID. Why does he want Pastafarians to be subjected to mockery and ridicule?//

Maybe he should have worn a hair shirt just to complete the photo…

80 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:50:14am

re: #78 Gus

[Embedded content]


Derp.

Not our fault your followers are distracted by Wieners.

81 Flounder  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:53:37am

I never get tired of weiner jokes, or fart jokes!

82 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:55:03am

re: #81 Flounder

I never get tired of weiner jokes, or fart jokes!

Especially when one walks right into the joke.

83 chadu  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:56:17am

re: #26 darthstar

Diamonds or pearls?

Feathers or lead?

84 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 6:56:57am
85 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:00:37am

re: #84 Gus

[Embedded content]

Comments are harsh.
Heh.

86 chadu  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:01:10am

re: #53 lawhawk

Each time Greenwald “reports” another new development or new NSA slide, it’s accompanied by a few important words - not without a warrant.

Greenwald is trying to have it both ways. Hyping the NSA’s ability to scour the Internet and electronic communications (which is its damned job btw Glenn - it’s supposed to be gathering intel to assist policy makers in making tough decisions that affect national security), and there are procedures in place to address when those electronic searches affect US citizens. It’s called warrants, and while we can question whether the warrant process is strict enough, the policy is in place and the NSA appears to have abided by it. Greenwald’s claims are really hypotheticals of what the NSA could do if unconstrained by US law and the Constitution.

I’m really liking Senator Franken’s take on the whole situation: figuring out the proper balance between privacy and security, and more transparency in the warrant process.

87 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:01:30am

Thank God I don’t live in an area where Comcast is my only option:

The folks at DSLReports write that consumers in the Fresno, CA, area are receiving promotional e-mails from Comcast about a new “Flexible-Data Option that “is specifically designed for casual or light Internet users who typically use 5 GB of data or less a month.”
Just like the TWC nonsense, the Comcast plan gives customers a $5 discount if they stay under 5GB/month. Cross that line… no discount. Additionally, you get charged an additional $1/GB of data used during that month.
Some might ask, “Why is this such a bad deal? After all, who wouldn’t want to save $5?”

Thing is, Comcast doesn’t officially cap broadband usage, but it will spank users who repeatedly go over 200-250GB in a month. So conservatively figuring that you could safely get away with 150GB of data a month on a $60 subscription, you’d be giving up access to more than 95% of that data for a paltry savings of only 8.3% on your monthly bill.

And under the Comcast plan, if you cross that 5GB threshold, you’ll actually be paying more than people with the ability to tap hundreds of gigabytes in a month.

These metered internet shenanigans are getting old fast. I guess we must accept the fact that truly “unlimited” data is going the way of the Dinosaur.

On another note, the article mentions that Comcast and similar companies like TWC, have openly admitted the reason for data caps is NOT due to internet congestion, it’s just a money making scheme.

88 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:04:36am

DERP
Just because ACLU and HRW have jumped on the Greenwald bandwagon DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE EVERYTHING THEY SAY TEH TROOF.

89 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:06:23am

re: #84 Gus

After reading that, I’m completely convinced that the Guardian exists just to justify right-wing stereotypes of liberals.

90 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:07:00am

re: #88 Vicious Babushka

ZOMG ARGUMENT FROM AUTHORI….oh it’s Glenn so it’s OK

91 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:08:01am

re: #90 Internet Tough Guy

ZOMG ARGUMENT FROM AUTHORI….oh it’s Glenn so it’s OK

Glenn is starting to sound like Prudence.

92 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:09:45am

re: #91 Vicious Babushka

Glenn is starting to sound like Prudence.

Boom!

93 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:10:49am

Simpsons called it: Fishermen find three eyed fish near nuclear plant

94 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:11:42am

re: #84 Gus

[Embedded content]

Why a Robert Mugabe victory would be good for Zimbabwe

WTF?

He’s been such a great thing for Zimbabwe for the last 1/4 century or so.

//

95 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:12:50am

re: #94 b.d.

WTF?

He’s been such a great thing for Zimbabwe for the last 1/4 century or so.

//

Last inflation numbers before ditching their currency;
89,700,000,000,000,000,000,000%

96 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:14:23am

#winning!

97 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:18:10am

re: #87 Eclectic Cyborg

I guess we must accept the fact that truly “unlimited” data is going the way of the Dinosaur.

Nope.

You can easily burn through 5GB in a single evening of Netflix watching. They can have my uncapped bandwidth when they pry it from my cold, dead router.

98 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:20:23am
99 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:21:28am

Laters.

100 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:21:49am

FINALLY!

101 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:22:01am

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

LOL Whitey Dudebro?

102 bubba zanetti  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:22:40am

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

So I missed the whole DudeBro thing - is it a white male privilege thing?

103 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:24:30am

Seriously, Sirota?

104 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:24:31am
105 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:27:04am

It’s morning, again.

raining in the Very Far Western parts of Chicagoland.

you?

106 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:33:15am

DERP OF THE DAY (so far)

107 Mattand  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:35:54am

re: #102 bubba zanetti

So I missed the whole DudeBro thing - is it a white male privilege thing?

Sounds like it. I may be wrong, but to me, it sounds like an outgrowth of frat boy culture; i.e., “bros before hos” idiocy.

I think it’s related, if not the alter ego, of another noxious privilege movement: the Men’s Rights Advocate, or MRA.

That’s the penis-based version of conservatives who scream that white people are being discriminated against.

108 Ian G.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:36:35am

re: #78 Gus

What exactly is there to talk about Detroit? Racism and redlining? The folly of urban sprawl? The folly of putting a city’s economic eggs in one basket (the automotive industry)?

Oh, right Detroit is what happens when you elect libtards, or something. Apparently, Austin and Portland are run by right-wingers. Derp.

109 Ian G.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:38:05am

re: #106 Vicious Babushka

Do they solicit souls in return for charity (i.e. you must accept Jesus as your savior if you want our help!)? Because that’s just as obnoxious, and it’s why I only donate to secular charities.

110 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:40:46am

re: #108 Ian G.

What exactly is there to talk about Detroit? Racism and redlining? The folly of urban sprawl? The folly of putting a city’s economic eggs in one basket (the automotive industry)?

Oh, right Detroit is what happens when you elect libtards, or something. Apparently, Austin and Portland are run by right-wingers. Derp.

Detroit is fucked, but it was caused by a variety of factors that all converged. RWNJ’s just like to flog the HURR HURR LIBRULZ!!11!! meme. Major U.S. cities tend to have LIBRUL city governments. The only cities who currently have GOP city governments are those jewels of prosperity, Indianapolis and Albuquerque.

111 Weet  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:41:53am

Has Chris Hayes always been a dimwit? When Schindler asserts, “Every intelligence person in the world understands that when an intelligence person takes refuge in a country in which there is a hostile intelligence service, that person is a defector. This is universally understood in the intelligence business…”, Chris Hayes cuts him off with this idiotic retort: “Wait a second, … ‘universally understood’ is not evidence.”

Yet Hayes lets Dinah Pokempner’s wholly unsupported statements stand. She said, “Snowden revealed massive and serious human rights violations” and later, “The US Government has driven him to Russia.”

I really wish Schindler had been harsher, “Chris, what kind of unicorn candyland do you live in?”

Hey Pokempner, if you didn’t already know that countries are spying on each other electronically, then you are not doing your job. Multiple books have explored this subject, including Eichenwald’s 500 Days.

“The US Government has driven him to Russia.” And not a peep out of Hayes to confront this nutjob statement.

112 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:42:42am

re: #100 darthstar

FINALLY!

[Embedded content]

As a member of the Naqshibandi school of Sufism, I embrace our Pastafarian brothers and support them in their struggle for religious liberty!

I think the Church of the FSM is cool; it’s a fun bunch.

113 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:42:47am

re: #109 Ian G.

Do they solicit souls in return for charity (i.e. you must accept Jesus as your savior if you want our help!)? Because that’s just as obnoxious, and it’s why I only donate to secular charities.

This idiot libertardarian thinks Democrats “buy votes” with WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPZ!!!1!! but PRIVATE CHARITIES HELPZ TEH NEEDY MOAR THEN FOOD STAMPZ!!11!! even though there are “private charities” which are nothing but billion-dollar scams.

114 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:43:51am

re: #103 darthstar

If it feels right, they’ll run with it. Facts be damned. Let’s just ignore that the Suffolk PD was the one who carried out the search after they were tipped off by the husband’s former employer who searched their company computers to find the search terms. It wasn’t some massive NSA or FBI or CIA search of Google terms; it was an employer who was worried that a former employee might be up to no good.

115 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:44:02am

DERP DERP HURR HURR

116 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:44:14am


Stupid.

117 Ian G.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:45:46am

re: #110 Vicious Babushka

Detroit is fucked, but it was caused by a variety of factors that all converged.

Yeah, that’s what I was getting at. Sprawl has to be a big one of the factors. Compare Detroit to other rust-belt cities that have lost a lot of people like Cleveland and Pittsburgh, and you see just how big it is, and just how much of it is abandoned. It’s hard to govern something like that. Cleveland and Pittsburgh have their blighted areas, but they’re much less extensive because the cities are more compact.

And Cleveland and Pittsburgh have the basis for a meds-and-eds revival (Carnegie Mellon and UP Medical Center; Case Western and the Cleveland Clinic). I don’t know if Detroit has that.

118 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:49:42am

re: #117 Ian G.

Yeah, that’s what I was getting at. Sprawl has to be a big one of the factors. Compare Detroit to other rust-belt cities that have lost a lot of people like Cleveland and Pittsburgh, and you see just how big it is, and just how much of it is abandoned. It’s hard to govern something like that. Cleveland and Pittsburgh have their blighted areas, but they’re much less extensive because the cities are more compact.

And Cleveland and Pittsburgh have the basis for a meds-and-eds revival (Carnegie Mellon and UP Medical Center; Case Western and the Cleveland Clinic). I don’t know if Detroit has that.

While most cities have their inner cities and their wealthier neighborhoods, Detroit is surrounded by middle and upper-class suburbs which are mostly white, and which are totally separate and autonomous from anything that goes on within Detroit city limits.

119 AntonSirius  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:49:45am

re: #70 Varek Raith

‘Pastafarian’ Man Wins Religious Liberty Battle To Wear A Pasta Strainer On His Government ID Card
ROFL.

Praise His Noodly Appendages

120 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:53:48am

re: #118 Vicious Babushka

While most cities have their inner cities and their wealthier neighborhoods, Detroit is surrounded by middle and upper-class suburbs which are mostly white, and which are totally separate and autonomous from anything that goes on within Detroit city limits.

And that hasn’t changed in 100 years.

121 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:53:59am

Will Bulger take the stand???? We’ll know soon:

122 Weet  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:54:32am

re: #114 lawhawk

If it feels right, they’ll run with it. Facts be damned. Let’s just ignore that the Suffolk PD was the one who carried out the search after they were tipped off by the husband’s former employer who searched their company computers to find the search terms. It wasn’t some massive NSA or FBI or CIA search of Google terms; it was an employer who was worried that a former employee might be up to no good.

Yep. And furthermore, the reported search term was ‘pressure cooker bomb’. Note the word ‘bomb’. The Ms. did not use that word in her blog report, from what I read here.

123 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:54:33am
124 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 7:56:17am

False alarm….he won’t

125 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:00:17am

It’s Friday. My 4 day migraine has abated. I am exhausted.

I wanna stay in my jammies all day, but I have so much to do …

conundrum.

126 bubba zanetti  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:01:45am
127 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:02:13am

Sorry for the Bulger posts, last one:


Pat(ricia)’s husband was killed by Bulger in ‘82.

128 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:03:12am
129 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:03:53am

So appropriate.

130 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:06:53am

Abandoned Walmart is Now America’s Largest Library

It’s an appropriate Friday.

131 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:07:18am

re: #125 FemNaziBitch

It’s Friday. My 4 day migraine has abated. I am exhausted.

I wanna stay in my jammies all day, but I have so much to do …

conundrum.

Do what I do, which is usually:

* Not much of anything productive all weekend; followed by
* Mad panic Sunday evening trying to cram 6 hours worth of chores into 2.

132 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:08:52am

re: #129 FemNaziBitch

So appropriate.

I doubt he sold it, but the current Pope gave up the golden throne.

133 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:09:45am

Kasich/Taylor hide Ohio’s insurance rates

deadline for the state to approve the plans was yesterday. The 200+ insurance plans that the state approved were forwarded on to the federal Department of Health and Human Services, who is actually running the exchange.

I’ve been anticipating the press release from Mary Taylor with the approved plans because I have a handy chart all ready for readers, and I just need the premiums.

Small problem: she doesn’t include any information in the release. Just that “average premiums” are rising 41% (which is interesting, because in June she said it was 88%) and that insurance companies’ costs are rising 83% (which actually seems like a fantastic deal for consumers).

134 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:10:55am

re: #132 wrenchwench

I doubt he sold it, but the current Pope gave up the golden throne.

I have a feeling each new Pope get’s to choose his chair from a stack of them in the Vatican Attic.

135 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:14:36am

re: #132 wrenchwench

He’s fancying this one instead. ////////

136 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:15:45am

NO HE DOES NOT YOU LYING MORON.

137 steve_davis  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:17:59am

re: #43 klys

Oh, sorry. :)

He is my husband and not in the wedding party.

If he’s your husband, then lay his damned clothes out for him the morning of the wedding and tell him that’s what he’s wearing. Didn’t your mother teach you anything? :-)

138 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:18:06am

IMHO, it’s all smoke and mirrors at the Vatican.

SSDD

139 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:19:39am

How do I get Zedushka to stop smoking in the garage?

DUDEBRO: Stop parking in his smoking area!

DUDEBRO II: Let him smoke in the house!

140 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:21:27am

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

How do I get Zedushka to stop smoking in the garage?

DUDEBRO: Stop parking in his smoking area!

DUDEBRO II: Let him smoke in the house!

Give him a covered, heated, air conditioned smoking area outside? Complete with recliner, remote, reading lamp and electronics of choice?

141 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:21:55am

re: #140 FemNaziBitch

Give him a covered, heated, air conditioned smoking area outside? Complete with recliner, remote, reading lamp and electronics of choice?

He’d love that!

142 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:22:22am

An old friend refused to let her husband smoke in the house. He set up his man cave in the garage, complete with refridgerator, recliner, TV and space heater.

143 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:23:31am

re: #142 FemNaziBitch

An old friend refused to let her husband smoke in the house. He set up his man cave in the garage, complete with refridgerator, recliner, TV and space heater.

He would so totally do that if only I didn’t clutter up his space with my SUV.

144 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:27:18am

JUST ASKIN’ QUESTIONS!!11 IS IT OKAY TO TARGET PRACTICE?

145 GeneJockey  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:28:13am

re: #100 darthstar

FINALLY!

[Embedded content]

He should put wings on it. Then it would be Der Fliegende Colander.

146 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:29:29am


Derp, derp, derp.

147 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:29:46am

Yesterday was Frank Little’s birthday, who was lynched for the sin of organizing labor.

Image: lDhWAfq.jpg

en.wikipedia.org

In early July 1917, Little arrived in Butte, Montana, to help organize a copper miners’ union and lead a miners’ strike against the Anaconda Copper Company. In the early hours of August 1, six masked men broke into Little’s hotel room.He was beaten and taken to the edge of town where he was lynched from a railroad trestle.A note with the words “First and last warning” was pinned to his chest, along with the initials of other union leaders, and the numbers 3-7-77 (a vigilante code famously used by the vigilance committee of Virginia City, Montana).

Fun note: Anaconda Copper Company was the model Ayn Rand used for one of the big heroic companies in Atlas Shrugged.

148 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:29:47am

Mugabe won again.

149 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:30:14am

re: #100 darthstar

FINALLY!

[Embedded content]

Same thing happened in Austria 2 years ago: Austrian Man Wins Right to Wear Pasta Strainer in License Photo

150 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:30:38am

re: #143 Vicious Babushka

He would so totally do that if only I didn’t clutter up his space with my SUV.

Just sayin’

151 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:30:46am

re: #146 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp, derp, derp.

They really believe their own revisionist shit.

152 EmmaAnne  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:32:18am

Well, let’s see. Is there any contradiction between Snowden’s Freedom! Libertarian! ideals and living in a country that plans to arrest gay olympic athletes? Hmm, that’s a difficult one. Grrr.

153 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:33:10am

re: #151 Vicious Babushka

They really believe their own revisionist shit.

And again…

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)

154 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:33:49am
155 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:34:30am

Next they’re going to argue that Dixiecrats were liberals.

156 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:34:47am

re: #154 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Conspiracy!

157 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:35:37am

Saw that coming actually.

158 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:35:44am

re: #153 Gus

And again…

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)

I attempted to have a Twitter conversation earlier this week with a couple of RWNJ’s who were Derping. It was frustrating and face-palming HURR HURR I DON’T BELIEVE ANY LIBRUL WEBSITES LIKE STANFORD AND ARCHIVES.GOV!!!111!!

159 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:35:53am

re: #153 Gus

And again…

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)

It’s about keeping everyone confused.

160 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:36:36am

re: #145 GeneJockey

He should put wings on it. Then it would be Der Fliegende Colander.

As long as it’s not a Pressure Cooker, all is fine.

161 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:37:31am

re: #154 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Question the timing!

162 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:37:44am

re: #153 Gus

And again…

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)

They thought they had a GOTCHA!!11 by repeatedly asking BUT WHO FILIBUSTERED TEH CRA!!11!! when I said A BUNCH OF SOUTHERNERS they then pulled out that LBJ quote from the 1993 gossip memoir.

These people are fucked up.

163 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:37:57am

If Snowden were gay where would he be now?

164 GeneJockey  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:38:26am

re: #160 FemNaziBitch

As long as it’s not a Pressure Cooker, all is fine.

A colander would make a lousy pressure cooker.

165 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:38:26am

re: #163 b.d.

If Snowden were gay where would he be now?

Is that a song title?

166 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:38:28am

re: #158 Vicious Babushka

You ever get the feeling that the only mistake in the Holocaust deniers’ strategy was not waiting for a black guy to get elected before spewing their bile?

Their methods are alive and well in Derpistan.

167 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:38:36am

DERP OF THE DAY (replacing previous DOTD)

168 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:38:56am

re: #164 GeneJockey

A colander would make a lousy pressure cooker.

Ah, but pressure cookers do have a colander type thingy in them.

I smell conspiracy!!!

169 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:39:07am

Greenwald is rivaling Alex Jones in the tinfoil hat category.

170 blueraven  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:39:24am

re: #87 Eclectic Cyborg

Thank God I don’t live in an area where Comcast is my only option:

These metered internet shenanigans are getting old fast. I guess we must accept the fact that truly “unlimited” data is going the way of the Dinosaur.

On another note, the article mentions that Comcast and similar companies like TWC, have openly admitted the reason for data caps is NOT due to internet congestion, it’s just a money making scheme.

This may not be a good option for most people but there are some that may benefit. My MIL only uses her computer for emails…maybe once in a while shopping.

As always, caveat emptor.

171 piratedan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:40:51am

re: #154 Vicious Babushka

who knows, maybe all of those Iraqi Al Qeida folks recently freed might have something to do with it… God forbid a train station get bombed or a plane be brought down. How many warnings have been issued lately, context Glenn, context… that Carly Simon song wasn’t about you….

172 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:40:58am

re: #145 GeneJockey

He should put wings on it. Then it would be Der Fliegende Colander.

Have you Senta message to him suggesting this?

173 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:41:42am

I’m going back to bed.

bbl

174 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:42:20am

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Question the timing!

[Embedded content]

Talk about a no win situation.
1.) Do nothing, have attack happen. Get criticized for not doing anything and a failure of surveillance state.
2.) Warn people of possible attack and get accused of false flag s*it.

Sometimes I wish I was part of the crowd that sat back and threw peanuts, it is so much easier.

175 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:42:50am

Fess up, Lizards, one of you must own this account:

176 GeneJockey  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:43:23am

Are: #173 FemNaziBitch

I’m going back to bed.

bbl

After H G-T’s joke, I don’t blame you.

177 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:43:34am

re: #175 Dr. Matt

Fess up, Lizards, one of you must own this account:

[Embedded content]

That is teh awesome.

Not me.

178 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:45:06am
179 Ian G.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:46:02am

re: #167 Vicious Babushka

Um, the National Association for the Advancement of White People exists, it just goes by the name “Republican Party”. Also, the GOP is the Congressional White Caucus.

The United White College fund is called legacy admissions.

This is not hard.

180 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:46:03am

US issues worldwide travel alert over al Qaeda threat except for dudebros.

181 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:46:59am

THOSE ENTITLED LIBRUL BRATS WITH THERE DEGREES IN HISPANIC TRANSGENDER STUDIES THINK THERE TOO GOOD TO WIRK AT WALMART OR FLIP BURGERS!!!1!!11

182 piratedan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:47:59am

re: #180 Gus

US issues worldwide travel alert over al Qaeda threat except for dudebros.

so that means the GG book signing tour in Algeirs, Benghazi, Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, Beirut and Tel Aviv is still on then?

183 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:49:21am

re: #182 piratedan

so that means the GG book signing tour in Algeirs, Benghazi, Baghdad, Damascus, Cairo, Beirut and Tel Aviv is still on then?

The Tel Aviv visit has been canceled out of Solidarity Against TEH OCCUPASHUN!!

184 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:59:32am

re: #146 Gus

A good specimen of the dudebro.

185 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 8:59:53am
186 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:01:53am

DERP

187 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:10:28am

Right where Dinnerjacket left off…Iran’s new president speaking about Israel.

Some things never change.

Rouhani, Ahmadinejad: Israel Should Be Cleansed, Uprooted from Region

Iran’s president-elect, Sheikh Hasan Rouhani said on Friday that the Zionist entity is a wound that should be cleansed, as the outgoing president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad vowed that a storm will uproot the basis of Zionism.

“The Zionist regime is a wound inflicted for years on the body of the Muslim world that must be cleansed,” Rouhani told reporters attending annual Quds Day rallies, in remarks reported by media.

Commenting over the so-called peace talks between the Zionist entity and the Palestinian Authority, Rouhani charged that “Israel is continuing with its aggressive nature against the backdrop of an excuse for compromise”.

The talks are providing the Israelis with “a good opportunity to project a peaceful appearance,” he said.

His remarks come a day before Rouhani is to assume the country’s highest elected office.
For its part, Ahmadinejad warned Israel in one of his last public speeches that a regional storm would uproot the Zionist entity.

“I will inform you with God as my witness, a devastating storm is on the way that will uproot the basis of Zionism,” Ahmadinejad said adding that the Israeli enemy “has no place in this region”.

188 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:11:44am

Fox News and am hate radio will be coming to his defense any moment now.

189 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:13:04am

re: #187 NJDhockeyfan

Right where Dinnerjacket left off…Iran’s new president speaking about Israel.

Some things never change.

Rouhani, Ahmadinejad: Israel Should Be Cleansed, Uprooted from Region

SSDD

190 piratedan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:14:19am

re: #188 Dr. Matt

I mean after all, if Rush has allowed himself to use it, why not Riley, it’s Amureka after all…..and Republicans should be allowed to use it, after all, they freed the slaves and they’ve proven themselves to totally not be racists and stuff.

191 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:16:19am

re: #186 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

US and other nations help topple Gaddafi regime within months. 4 Americans die. Libya has a bright future ahead of them if they play their cards rights. Iraq?

192 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:16:29am

DERP
TEH JRRBZ PLAN CONTAINS NOTHING ABOUT JRRBZ!!

193 ObserverArt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:18:44am

If it has not happened yet, I wonder when the time is coming Snowden figures out he is just a bit player in this story now.

Led by Greenwald, everyone is adding their own slant on the story to advance their own careers.

Snowden is the one who is paying the price while everyone positions for online stories, blogs, newspaper articles, TV political shows, etc.

I’m not feeling sorry for him just interested in that very human moment when things become clear and you realize you are the only one holding the bag. Idealism dies off and the reality is still there, larger than you ever thought when the idealism was your driving force.

All the atta-boys from the public and supporters supporting will go away and you will reach the point where you find you are the one holding the bag of repercussions of your actions.

That is the “what have I done” momment.

194 Stanley Sea  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:23:59am

re: #100 darthstar

FINALLY!

[Embedded content]

DYING!!!!!

195 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:24:26am

THERE IN AREA 51 WITH TEH PASSENGERS OF FLIGHT 77 & ELVIS & TEH SHOOTER ON TEH GRASSY KNOLL!!!1!!

196 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:24:46am

re: #134 FemNaziBitch

I have a feeling each new Pope get’s to choose his chair from a stack of them in the Vatican Attic.

Nope, it’s whichever one he is closest to when the music stops.

197 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:28:39am
198 AntonSirius  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:31:20am

This is relevant to the interests of some Lizards:

Giant straw Dalek

199 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:32:08am

U SEE RANGLE IS TEH REAL RACISTS!!11!!

200 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:35:25am

re: #199 Vicious Babushka

U SEE TEHY R TEH REAL RACISTS!!11!!

[Embedded content]

Quote from the comments:

I’ve had this stupid argument so many times I should program a hotkey for the responses.

What political party did Lyndon Johnson, the President who signed the civil rights bills in the 60’s, belong to? That’s right, he was a Democrat. What do you think he meant when he said “”We [Democrats] have lost the South for a generation” as he signed the 1964 civil rights act?

It’s true, once upon a time, there used to be conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans (Abraham Lincoln was a liberal). Conservatives opposed the radical notion of ending slavery, that’s why the people who wanted to end slavery in the late 1850’s and early 1860’s were called Radical Republicans.

Go read a history book ffs.

201 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:36:55am
202 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:40:15am

State Dept: The following posts normally open on Sunday will be closed on Sunday, August 4.

U.S. Embassy Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

U.S. Embassy Algiers, Algeria

U.S. Embassy Amman, Jordan

U.S. Embassy Baghdad, Iraq

U.S. Embassy Cairo, Egypt

U.S. Consulate Dhahran, Saudi Arabia

U.S. Embassy Djibouti, Djibouti

U.S. Embassy Dhaka, Bangladesh

U.S. Embassy Doha, Qatar

U.S. Consulate Dubai, United Arab Emirates

U.S. Consulate Erbil, Iraq

U.S. Consulate Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan

U.S. Embassy Khartoum, Sudan

U.S. Embassy Kuwait City, Kuwait

U.S. Embassy Manama, Bahrain

U.S. Embassy Muscat, Oman

U.S. Embassy Nouakchott, Mauritania

U.S. Embassy Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

U.S. Embassy Sana’a, Yemen

U.S. Embassy Tripoli, Libya

203 blueraven  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:40:53am

re: #192 Vicious Babushka

DERP
TEH JRRBZ PLAN CONTAINS NOTHING ABOUT JRRBZ!!

[Embedded content]

Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi offers Stockman a clue.

204 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:40:54am

re: #200 geoffm33

Quote from the comments:

LBJ WAZ TEH RACISTS1!!1 HE USED TEH N WORD!!!!

Standard response on Teh Twitters whenever I challenge their CRA revisionism.

205 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:41:05am

The GOP’s continuing race to the bottom of the barrel:

206 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:42:06am
207 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:42:55am

re: #206 Vicious Babushka

He’s actually wearing a brown shirt….shocking.

208 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:47:18am

I love Wonkette

(Except sometimes Wonketteers is just a teensy bit not liking Teh Juice in comments)

209 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:47:30am

Somebody wrote this, and it is true.

Somewhere out there is a man (or woman) walking around with the biggest smile on their face because they know something we all don’t.

Somewhere out there Matt Smith is walking around feeling replaced and unloved because there’s a show on Sunday dedicated to the 12th Doctor and he hasn’t even left yet.

Somewhere out there Moffat is stroking a white cat and laughing superiorly.

Somewhere out there a fan is crying because they’ve finally realised that Matt Smith is leaving.

And somewhere out there is a person who is finally going to understand that it’s spelt ‘twelfth’ and not ‘twelth.’

210 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:48:02am

Really Chris?

MSNBC’s Chris Hayes Reveals He Felt ‘Tiny Slight Pin-Prick Of Empathy’ For Ariel Castro

Youtube Video

211 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:48:33am

re: #208 Vicious Babushka

I love Wonkette

[Embedded content]

(Except sometimes Wonketteers is just a teensy bit not liking Teh Juice in comments)

TEH JUICE! THEY’RE EVERYWHERE EVEN WHEN YOU DON’T SEE ‘EM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

212 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:49:34am

re: #211 Gus

TEH JUICE! THEY’RE EVERYWHERE EVEN WHEN YOU DON’T SEE ‘EM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn’t mean the comments for that particular article (which there are no comments) but at that site in general.

213 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:50:18am

re: #212 Vicious Babushka

I didn’t mean the comments for that particular article (which there are no comments) but at that site in general.

Oh, I know.

214 alpuz  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:51:10am

re: #199 Vicious Babushka

TPM has just been overrun by the tea patriot crew. It’s brutal.

215 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:51:27am

AND NOW A WORD FROM UR DERPETTE

216 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:51:35am

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Question the timing!

I know. Wish we hadn’t abandoned the color codes.

217 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:52:38am

Russell Simmons ladies and gentlemen:

218 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:55:37am
219 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:56:19am

re: #214 alpuz

TPM has just been overrun by the tea patriot crew. It’s brutal.

It’s like that on a near daily basis. Politico is just as bad.

220 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 9:59:45am

re: #217 geoffm33

How the mind works….

1) Read article from Russell Simmons
2) “Dust off” old Run-DMC albums in spotify

It’s Like That. And that’s the way it is.

221 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:00:08am

Accused Fort Hood gunman seeks to renounce citizenship, military oath

DALLAS — Accused Fort Hood gunman Nidal Hasan declared his wish to renounce his U.S. citizenship and military oath in several pages of documents furnished to Fox News on Thursday, days before his court-martial is slated to begin.

…In an email reply to Reuters, Galligan verified that the documents delivered to the cable network were from Hasan, but he declined to answer any further questions.

One of the posted declarations, dated Oct. 18, 2012, and written by hand, states that he is “compelled to renounce any oaths of allegiances that require me to support/defend any man made constitution (like the Constitution of the United States) over the commandments mandated in Islam.”

It goes on to say: “I therefore formally renounce my oath of office as well as any other implicit or explicit oaths I have made in the past … This includes my oath of U.S. citizenship.”

Here is the letter:

Typed statement by Maj. Nidal Hasan

222 alpuz  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:02:49am

re: #219 Dr. Matt

Yeah, i figured as much with sites like politico and yahoo. I’ve just never seen it
like that at TPM.

223 Mattand  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:04:17am

re: #214 alpuz

TPM has just been overrun by the tea patriot crew. It’s brutal.

That’s a bit of a surprise. I don’t comment there regularly, but the few baggers I’ve seen post usually get smacked down thoroughly.

224 alpuz  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:07:02am

re: #223 Mattand

Yep. That’s been my experience as well. I guess it’s a little hard to do when comments are coming in at around 75 per minute. Like I said, it was brutal.

225 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:10:21am

re: #217 geoffm33

Russell Simmons ladies and gentlemen:

[Embedded content]

You know what happens when you mix Don Lemon with Russell Simmons?

You get Don Simmons.

Youtube Video

226 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:10:25am

Fischer: Gay Activists Should Support Russia’s Anti-Gay Laws In The Name Of Diversity

The discriminatory legislation has been met with outrage and protests around the world, but Fischer doesn’t understand why since liberals and gay activists supposedly believe in diversity and, as such, they ought to be saying “hey, this is great!”

“We’ve got plenty of room in our multicultural world for all sorts of different cultural values and trends,” Fischer mockingly proclaimed. “Isn’t this wonderful what Russia is doing. Let’s celebrate diversity and let’s support this tradition in the nation of Russia”:

Fischer is just mad he can’t kidnap and torture LGBT people over here.

227 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:10:37am


I see what you did there…..very clever :)

228 Mattand  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:10:37am

re: #224 alpuz

Yep. That’s been my experience as well. I guess it’s a little hard to do when comments are coming in at around 75 per minute. Like I said, it was brutal.

I’m half tempted to Tweet Josh Marshall about it.

I don’t think one should be banned from a website just because you’re a Tea Bagger, but if they’re destroying the comments section, I’d think the owner of the site should be aware.

229 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:10:40am

Banjo sending the seagulls up.

Image: 1015782_10151781059293024_153612323_o.jpg

230 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:10:58am
231 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:11:23am

re: #225 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

You know what happens when you mix Don Lemon with Russell Simmons?

You get Don Simmons.

[Embedded content]

OMG I loved that movie growing up!

232 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:13:24am

re: #231 geoffm33

OMG I loved that movie growing up!

B.B. King: Did you know that every 7 minutes, a black person is born in this country with no soul?

233 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:13:28am

Madonna, Gaga accused of breaking laws in Russia

Russian officials might be cool with Snowden hanging out in Russia, but not with Madonna and Lady Gaga.

According to The Guardian, the two artists did not have permission to play concerts in 2012 and Russian officials are considering pressing charges.

Leading the charge is Vitaly Milonov, the politician who wrote St Petersburg’s law banning gay ‘propaganda.’ He’s got a bone to pick with both singers, who talked about their support of the gay community during their 2012 shows. In reaction, Milonov gave chase in court, trying to have them charged with “promoting sodomy, lesbianism, bisexuality and transgenderism among minors.”

234 gunnison  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:14:19am

re: #35 klys

I think the difference here comes not from where he is but what he has said about the places he has been in contrast to the US - he’s had a number of statements praising Russia for law triumphing over “the illegal actions of the Obama administration” for example. At the same time, he’s claimed that what prompted his actions was principle - the idea that a nation shouldn’t be spying on its own people.

That’s what prompts the question and that’s what makes it ironic. Too bad he’s too wrapped up in …whatever… that he can’t see that.

Standing up for principle means taking the consequences of your actions, because your principles mean more than the law. Not trying to dodge them. Conversely, it’s really hard to argue from principle when you’re trying to dodge the consequences of your actions.

Oh yes, I take that point totally.
He said some goofy things about Hong Kong and Russia, and also a couple of S American nations in regard to their human rights records.

But let’s also remember that Manning was kept in solitary for many many months on the pretext of him being on “suicide watch”, and that was before he’d been found guilty of anything at all.
And the US record of illegal renditions is fully documented at this point too, so nobody, not Russia, not China, not the US, has the right to occupy the high ground and preen themselves about this kind of thing.

I don’t accept your diagnosis that “standing up for principle means taking the consequences of your actions” if those “consequences” are to be held incommunicado (like Manning was) before even being found guilty.

You may disagree, and here on LGF, judging by my growing collection of downvotes, I suspect most others will too, but I don’t think Snowden’s concerns about him being treated un-constitutionally were he to be returned to the US are irrational.

235 alpuz  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:14:23am

re: #228 Mattand

They’re on it. I don’t know how they can stop it without shutting it down. I guess we’ll see.

236 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:14:36am

re: #233 NJDhockeyfan

Madonna, Gaga accused of breaking laws in Russia

Russia, go sit in the corner until you can play nice with others.

237 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:14:56am

re: #167 Vicious Babushka

DERP OF THE DAY (replacing previous DOTD)

[Embedded content]

If I’m not mistaken, there is - or was - a National Association of the Advancement of White People. It was created and led by David Duke.

You might wanna let that fellow know.

238 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:16:19am

Just got the greatest email ever:

“Geoff, Breaking Bad Season 5 is now on Netflix”

239 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:16:38am

re: #227 geoffm33

I see what you did there…..very clever :)

Somebody should put up some Jesus quotes.

240 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:17:14am

re: #236 Kragar

Russia, go sit in the corner until you can play nice with others.

I wonder if there are any countries brave enough to boycott the Olympics over their gay laws?

241 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:18:02am

re: #240 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder if there are any countries brave enough to boycott the Olympics over their gay laws?

We should.

242 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:18:42am

re: #238 geoffm33

Just got the greatest email ever:

“Geoff, Breaking Bad Season 5 is now on Netflix”

So all five seasons are online now? I thought they still hadn’t finished broadcasting season 5?

243 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:20:30am

re: #218 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Hmm. He looks about 15 and acts about 5—and that’s a manager’s uniform.

Serves Burger King right.

244 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:20:59am

This is just great! A little action movie treatment to an otherwise dull story about paving city streets:

Vimeo

245 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:21:02am

Mysterious “glitch” allows CO lawmakers to dodge parking, speeding tickets

According to CBS Denver, the info for these particular license plates is never entered into the DMV database, so when some state senator goes zooming by a speed camera, he or she won’t get a ticket, because the camera system looks up the license plate number through the DMV. Since no info comes up, no ticket is given.

This appears to be true for parking tickets as well. See, even though a parking enforcement officer might leave a ticket on the car, cities like Denver that rely on the DMV for addresses of vehicle owners come up empty when they try to collect on those tickets.

CBS has a PDF showing several examples of parking tickets given to cars with state legislature plates that have gone uncollected because of this “glitch,” that we have a hunch is probably not a glitch at all.

“Because the Department of Public Works relies on the DMV Database to contact people with unpaid parking tickets we are not able to contact legislators with unpaid parking tickets,” a rep for the DPW tells the station.
At first, the rep said it was going to endeavor to collect from those
lawmakers responsible for $2,100 in unpaid tickets… then it decided that it would be too costly. But it’s probably not too costly for the DPW to collect from people who don’t hold the state’s purse strings in their hands.

The plates are not tied to state-issued vehicles. They are given to each of the 100 men and women who make up the state legislature in Colorado for use on their own vehicles.

This is what plutocracy looks like ladies and gentlemen.

246 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:21:23am

re: #241 Kragar

We should.

Wow, I can imagine the RWNJ meltdown if that happened!

247 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:22:01am

re: #199 Vicious Babushka

U SEE RANGLE IS TEH REAL RACISTS!!11!!

[Embedded content]

My late father - white, born and bred in Los Angeles - referred to Southern whites as “crackers” all the time.

Actually, not all the time. Sometime he called them “redneck peckerwoods”, “white trash” or “inbred hillbillies”. He detested Southerners, having served with, as he put many, far too many during WWII.

248 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:22:07am

re: #242 Kragar

Just part one of season 5.

Season 5 part 2 airs on AMC starting August 11.

249 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:22:26am

re: #246 Eclectic Cyborg

Wow, I can imagine the RWNJ meltdown if that happened!

Fuck them.

250 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:22:57am

re: #248 geoffm33

Just part one of season 5.

Season 5 part 2 airs on AMC starting August 11.

Ah, OK. I’ll wait till its all there.

251 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:24:07am

re: #234 gunnison

Oh yes, I take that point totally.
He said some goofy things about Hong Kong and Russia, and also a couple of S American nations in regard to their human rights records.

But let’s also remember that Manning was kept in solitary for many many months on the pretext of him being on “suicide watch”, and that was before he’d been found guilty of anything at all.
And the US record of illegal renditions is fully documented at this point too, so nobody, not Russia, not China, not the US, has the right to occupy the high ground and preen themselves about this kind of thing.

I don’t accept your diagnosis that “standing up for principle means taking the consequences of your actions” if those “consequences” are to be held incommunicado (like Manning was) before even being found guilty.

You may disagree, and here on LGF, judging by my growing collection of downvotes, I suspect most others will too, but I don’t think Snowden’s concerns about him being treated un-constitutionally were he to be returned to the US are irrational.

Manning was under military jurisdiction; it’s pretty hard to compare his case to Snowden, who would be under civilian jurisdiction.

Is the US perfect when it comes to prisoner treatment? No. But in the civilian courts there are a fair number of checks and balances and particularly in a high profile case like this, I am going to go with it being on the irrational side.

Please don’t misunderstand: I would like to have a conversation about what’s going on at the NSA and how we can change it so that there is better oversight and more transparency. Snowden has made that very, very difficult. And I have absolutely no respect for his decision to run. Sorry, we can disagree on that, but if you claim to be doing something from principle, you damn well better be prepared to take the consequences of your actions. Otherwise your principles are really more about “how does it effect me” and less about actual principles.

252 Mattand  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:24:32am

re: #240 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder if there are any countries brave enough to boycott the Olympics over their gay laws?

If the US boycotted the event, every conservative and Republican in the country would probably donate their life savings to send a team.

A country where being gay is now basically a crime? It’s a dream come true for conservative America.

253 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:27:33am

re: #240 NJDhockeyfan

I wonder if there are any countries brave enough to boycott the Olympics over their gay laws?

In 1980 President Carter boycotted the Moscow Olympics.

254 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:28:17am

Texas jailer must face trial after video caught him raping 15-year-old

A federal judge ruled this week that a trial against a Texas jailer can go forward after video caught him allegedly raping a 15-year-old female inmate.

In a suit filed late last year, Michelle and Danny Hall accused former Harris County correctional officer Robert Robinson of raping their daughter, M.S.H., during her two month stay at Houston’s Harris County Juvenile Justice Center.

The suit accuses Robinson of “grooming” the girl with food and candy, before the encounters “quickly escalated with quid pro quo requests that exchanged gifts for genital fondling and touching.”

255 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:28:55am

re: #252 Mattand

If the US boycotted the event, every conservative and Republican in the country would probably donate their life savings to send a team.

A country where being gay is now basically a crime? It’s a dream come true for conservative America.

256 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:29:37am

Wolverine - A film by Woody Allen

Youtube Video

257 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:31:06am

re: #255 geoffm33

[Embedded content]

Eat a bag of dicks Burke.

258 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:31:15am

re: #253 Vicious Babushka

In 1980 President Carter boycotted the Moscow Olympics.

I remember that. As a teenager I couldn’t understand why he did that. I was looking forward to the US team beating the Soviets in another Olympics.

259 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:32:33am


Greenwald, the poster boy of huge egos.

261 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:33:35am

The only thing that is hurt by boycotting the olympics are the athletes that have been training their entire life to get there.

262 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:34:27am

re: #254 Kragar

Texas jailer must face trial after video caught him raping 15-year-old

What bigger asshole is there than a jailer who rapes prisoners? Sadly, this is not the least bit uncommon.

263 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:35:37am

re: #261 Dr. Matt

The only thing that is hurt by boycotting the olympics are the athletes that have been training their entire life to get there.

Russia would also be hurt, especially if a large number of countries decided not to participate.

264 Mattand  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:36:43am

re: #261 Dr. Matt

The only thing that is hurt by boycotting the olympics are the athletes that have been training their entire life to get there.

Yeah, fuck those Russian gay people who now risk injury and jail for the “crime” of being homosexual. They don’t know the suffering those poor athletes might have to go through.

265 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:39:48am

re: #257 Kragar

Eat a bag of dicks Burke.

He is the founder of the You Can Play Project and very outspoken about gay rights.

LGBT Olympians And Allies Should Show Up In Russia

266 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:40:46am
267 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:41:36am
268 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:41:45am

re: #260 Kragar

36 Senators Introduce Bill Prohibiting Virtually Any New Law Helping Workers

It’s named the “Enumerated Powers Act of 2013,” a reference to the provisions of the Constitution outlining Congress’ specific powers, and it claims to require all federal legislation to “‘contain a concise explanation of the specific authority in the Constitution’ that is the basis for its enactment.”

The key provision in this bill, however, would revive a discredited interpretation of the Constitution that America abandoned nearly eight decades ago. Although the text of the bill is not yet available online, a press release from Coburn’s office explains that it “[p]rohibits the use of the Commerce Clause except for ‘the regulation of the buying and selling of goods or services, or the transporting for those purposes, across boundaries with foreign nations, across State lines, or with Indian tribes.’”

What in the everloving fuck?

*shakes head*

United States of America, international laughingstock.

269 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:42:00am

re: #265 geoffm33

He is the founder of the You Can Play Project and very outspoken about gay rights.

LGBT Olympians And Allies Should Show Up In Russia

I disagree completely.

270 geoffm33  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:43:44am

re: #269 Kragar

I disagree completely.

That’s fine to disagree. But telling him to eat a bag of dicks is a little harsh.

271 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:43:57am

re: #269 Kragar

He says:

I also don’t believe, however, that Russia would ever take the step of jailing an Olympic athlete from a foreign nation and risking real retribution on an international scale.

I’m not sure he’s paying attention, since Russia just granted asylum to a guy who leaked US intelligence secrets. Compared to that, jailing a gay athlete would not really be that big a deal.

272 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:44:28am

Why is Andrea Mitchell treating Glennlandia as some kind of security/intelligence expert when he is no such animal?

273 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:46:04am

re: #272 Justanotherhuman

Why is Andrea Mitchell treating Glennlandia as some kind of security/intelligence expert when he is no such animal?

Because she’s stupid?

274 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:46:09am

Mitchell asking about Russia’s gay rights laws.

Greenwald deflects and refocuses on US abuses of civil rights.

275 gunnison  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:46:35am

re: #251 klys

Please don’t misunderstand: I would like to have a conversation about what’s going on at the NSA and how we can change it so that there is better oversight and more transparency. Snowden has made that very, very difficult. And I have absolutely no respect for his decision to run. Sorry, we can disagree on that, but if you claim to be doing something from principle, you damn well better be prepared to take the consequences of your actions. Otherwise your principles are really more about “how does it effect me” and less about actual principles.

Yes, we can disagree without thinking of each other as enemies.
I take your point about the differences between military and civil law, but still think Snowden (or anyone accused under anything related to the “espionage” acts) in not being irrational to suspect he might be held in conditions that don’t permit him to communicate freely, at least to his lawyers, until adjudged to be guilty.

I also don’t buy the notion that a claim to “principle” is invalidated by any subsequent self interest. I don’t see principle and self-interest to be mutually exclusive in other words.
I know that position is as popular as a turd in the punch bowl around here, but there it is.

Thanks for the civility, by the way.
Appreciated.

276 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:46:36am
The Russian law against “gay propaganda” is not going to apply to the participants and guests of the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympics, a top lawmaker said

“The Olympics is a major international event. Our task is to be as politically correct and tolerant as we can be. That’s why we made the decision not to raise this issue during the Games,” Interfax news agency cites said Igor Ananskikh, the head of the Russian Duma Committee on physical training, sports and youth, as saying.

Lots of conflicting stuff coming out of Russia

rt.com

277 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:46:46am

re: #266 darthstar

Ssshhh. Russia/Putin are now bastions of Libertee compared to Fascistic Amercia.//

278 Mattand  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:46:49am

re: #269 Kragar

I disagree completely.

Me, too. Unless they’re dying to see the Russian prison system from the inside.

I’m honestly shocked that Russia basically criminalizing homosexuality hasn’t been a bigger story.

Oh, wait. This is America. Never mind…

279 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:47:24am

Shorter Greenwald on LGBT barriers in Russia:

Snowden would be persecuted in the US (and no doubt tortured and raped if jailed) so I’m willing to sell my principles to get on TV.

280 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:47:28am

re: #271 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

He says:

I’m not sure he’s paying attention, since Russia just granted asylum to a guy who leaked US intelligence secrets. Compared to that, jailing a gay athlete would not really be that big a deal.

Exactly. He has completely misread the lengths the Russians are willing to go.

There have been a series of kidnappings, torture, and public shamings of gay people in Russia, where the victims are abused on video and then posted online. This is done with a wink and a nod from the government. This behavior has no place in the 21st century, and apparently neither does Russia.

281 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:47:40am

re: #274 darthstar

Yes but NSA ASSAULT SPYING!!!!

//

282 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:48:11am

re: #279 Justanotherhuman

Shorter Greenwald on LGBT barriers in Russia:

Snowden would be persecuted in the US (and no doubt tortured and raped if jailed) so I’m willing to sell my principles to get on TV.

That’s assuming he ever had principles.

283 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:48:53am

re: #280 Kragar

Yeah, I”d be less worried about the government arresting people and rather the government NOT arresting roaming gangs of thugs who beat the shit out of gay people.

284 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:49:25am
285 gunnison  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:49:35am

re: #251 klys

Let me add, regarding your assertion that Snowden has made the conversation about survellance “difficult”;
Had it not been for what Snowden did, we would not, in my opinion, be having this conversation at all.

286 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:49:50am

re: #282 darthstar

That’s assuming he ever had principles.

Well, I’m also assuming his “principles” have no ethical underpinnings, either.

287 A Mom Anon  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:53:12am

re: #210 NJDhockeyfan

You have GOT to be kidding me. Did Hayes even listen to this raping sociopath’s statement to the court? He blamed those three young women for what he did to them. Had the fucking nerve to sit there and try to proclaim what a great dad he was to Amanda Berry’s little girl because he took her out of that hellhouse and to the park sometimes. How he had “happy family memories” of the time he kept those women hostage, how the sex was consensual. How they weren’t tortured because hey, look at them now, they don’t look traumatized do they? OMG, I can’t even BEGIN to unpack how fucking fucked up that is.

Chris needs his privileged white ass kicked around a room once or twice by a couple of poor people and a couple rape survivors. A twinge of sympathy? Holy What THE Fuck Batman. Jesus Christ.

Edited to add: I get that victims of abuse do sometimes become abusers themselves. It’s not an excuse and in Castro’s case, it’s just another reason in his own head to excuse those actions. Most victims/survivors do NOT do what he did. It is a choice, he knew it was wrong or he wouldn’t have hidden it. I don’t feel empathy for him, what I feel makes my skin crawl.

288 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:53:50am
289 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:57:55am

DERP

290 b.d.  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:58:17am

re: #288 Gus

[Embedded content]

Total coincidence coming after that huge bombshell about teh pressure cooker Google search raid story!

291 Gus  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:58:47am

re: #289 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, wait…

292 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 10:59:19am

re: #289 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

How does Dave get out of bed in the morning without injuring himself?

293 Kragar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:01:07am

Adams: Immigration Reform Will Lead To A Biometric Mark Of The Beast

Yesterday, End Times radio host Rick Wiles interviewed Cathie Adams, the former head of the Texas Republican Party and current president of the Texas Eagle Forum, in a wide-ranging discussion which included a warning that immigration reform would lead to biometric scanning which, as everyone knows, is a tool of Satan.

Adams warned that the problem is not just that Hispanics are crossing the border illegally, but so are people from Muslim nations and so if immigration reform passes, we’ll be giving amnesty “to people who are not here with the best intentions for America.”

After Adams said that the Department for Homeland Security is unable to account for more than a million foreigners who have overstayed their visas, Wiles predicted that immigration reform advocates would call for biometric scanning as a solution to this problem, which Adams declared would be an unmistakable sign of the End Times.

294 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:03:19am

re: #268 Eclectic Cyborg

It’s a roundabout attack to limit the scope of the Commerce Clause - to reduce it’s use by the courts to preserve and maintain all manner of rights that have been extended until now.

295 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:05:04am

Funny…saw this when following a link to fundAnything.com

296 Spocomptonite  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:05:21am

re: #95 Varek Raith

Last inflation numbers before ditching their currency;
89,700,000,000,000,000,000,000%

I have 181 billion Zimbabwe dollars.

Mugabe was really good for numismatics.

297 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:05:39am

re: #293 Kragar

immigration reform would lead to biometric scanning which, as everyone knows, is a tool of Satan.

Biometric scanning not needed now because NSA KNOWS ALL MY INTERNETS!!!!

298 blueraven  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:05:56am

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Strangley enough, one of the “concerns” is about a company, “Huawei Technologies, a privately-held electronics conglomerate with close ties to the Chinese government that has raised national security concerns”….a company that Rick Perry actively courted for USA/TX

Gov. Perry Helps Cut Ribbon at Huawei Technologies’ New U.S. Headquarters

299 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:06:14am

re: #293 Kragar

giving amnesty “to people who are not here with the best intentions for America.”

OK, but enough about RWNJ….

300 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:06:15am

re: #287 A Mom Anon

You have GOT to be kidding me. Did Hayes even listen to this raping sociopath’s statement to the court? He blamed those three young women for what he did to them. Had the fucking nerve to sit there and try to proclaim what a great dad he was to Amanda Berry’s little girl because he took her out of that hellhouse and to the park sometimes. How he had “happy family memories” of the time he kept those women hostage, how the sex was consensual. How they weren’t tortured because hey, look at them now, they don’t look traumatized do they? OMG, I can’t even BEGIN to unpack how fucking fucked up that is.

Chris needs his privileged white ass kicked around a room once or twice by a couple of poor people and a couple rape survivors. A twinge of sympathy? Holy What THE Fuck Batman. Jesus Christ.

Excellent rant. I’d like to print it out and tape it to the inside of Chris’s glasses, where he can’t miss it.

(Idea having to do with brick deleted.)

301 darthstar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:12:44am

re: #295 darthstar

Funny…saw this when following a link to fundAnything.com

Update: WE DID IT! UPDATE: Hooooooly shit! Through the power of the internet, lovers of dumb shit, and people who hate Jose Canseco, this project has been funded in less than four days! - See more at: fundanything.com

302 steve_davis  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:26:05am

re: #155 Gus

Next they’re going to argue that Dixiecrats were liberals.

speaking of which, somebody recc-jacked talking points memo today, so the Rangel article is infested with neo-confederates with hundreds of updings for racist revisionism. It’s almost funny, if one approaches it in the right spirit.

303 alpuz  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 11:59:13am

re: #302 steve_davis

They finally shut it down at 3827 comments.

304 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:02:11pm

re: #285 gunnison

Let me add, regarding your assertion that Snowden has made the conversation about survellance “difficult”;
Had it not been for what Snowden did, we would not, in my opinion, be having this conversation at all.

In some ways, correct, although not from lack of interest by some parties. The Patriot Act is a very flawed piece of legislation that clearly needs to be revisited and there’s plenty of people who’ve wanted to have that conversation for a while, only to be shut down.

I would argue that it was very possible for Snowden to have brought this topic forward without stealing classified documents or (if you feel he would have needed to show some proof) providing a data dump directly to foreign intelligence agencies in China and Russia. Those actions, combined with the MEMEME bleat from Greenwald, have turned this story away from the conversation that needs to be had and more into what Snowden did.

Also, while principle and self-interest may not be mutually exclusive, stealing and releasing classified information because the government “shouldn’t spy on its own citizens” and then fleeing to Hong Kong and Russia does not exactly correlate.

305 gunnison  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:48:25pm

re: #304 klys

Aside from our differences related to the connection between acting on principle and staying out of the clutches of law enforcement (which clearly you think is a much bigger deal than do I), we’re not that far apart, maybe. We’re certainly not adversaries.

I agree that Snowden made some remarks about the “dedication to civil rights” in Hong Kong which are completely unsupportable outside of a lunatic asylum, but I think I can understand that he may have been trying to box the Chinese in a bit with that - he may have felt that such (public) remarks would make it more “difficult” for the HK authorities to simply fold and turn him over. Doesn’t have to be true, it just has to be something he believed.

I do think that had he gone to a European nation he would have been arrested and extradited, and I do think I understand his reluctance to endure that outcome. Nor do I think that his apparent determination to remain “at large” detracts from what he says his motives are.

Greenwald has been, well, Greenwald, and to expect anything else is unrealistic, but we are where we are.
Perhaps Snowden could have found another way to bring this stuff to the front burner where I think we both believe it belongs, just as you suggest.
But he didn’t, and the fact that he did not find the most elegant method of disclosure doesn’t make me want to demonize him as much as many folks around here seem comfortable with.
We don’t know the extent to which there has been a “data dump” to the Chinese or the Russians. We do know that convincing people of that serves the interests of discrediting Snowden’s motives. I remain agnostic about whether that happened or not - the only evidence of it is the repeated insistence of those who believe it’s inevitable - but there is no way to objectively verify it. That’s a position which triggers derision here, and will boost my downvote collection, but there it is. Maybe I’ll get them framed one of these days.

On balance, I’m happy to see this issue brought front and center, even as I have some of the same dissatisfaction as you do. I’m skeptical that the Patriot Act would be the topic of discussion to the extent it now is without Snowden’s actions.
I’m also skeptical that those who remain enamored with Obama (I worked my ass off for his campaign in ‘08, for whatever that’s worth, and would not vote for today’s GOP at gunpoint) will enter this discussion with anything like the enthusiasm they had for the topic when we had a GOP president. I firmly believe this issue, and some others, transcend party loyalties. They do for me anyway.

Again, I appreciate that our discussion is forthright and civil. I think that matters, and I wish it were more common. There are many serious issues confronting the future that will be faced by future genrations, and now is not too soon to get serious about trying to deal with them.
LGF does a fine job of articulating the total fucking madness that is today’s GOP base (which is why I come here) and is an important part of the struggle.

306 EPR-radar  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 2:55:58pm

re: #305 gunnison

One point that is worth adding here is that the official responses in cases like this often come down to “trust us”.

For a response of that type, I will be much more skeptical if is coming from the G W Bush administration than from the Obama administration. For Obama press releases, I’m skeptical, but I do not start out with the presumption that every factual statement is a lie, which is where I ended up with the Bushies.

The bottom line is that there should be enough transparency in the process so that official reliance on “trust us” is minimized.

307 gunnison  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 3:40:50pm

re: #306 EPR-radar

One point that is worth adding here is that the official responses in cases like this often come down to “trust us”.

For a response of that type, I will be much more skeptical if is coming from the G W Bush administration than from the Obama administration. ….

Not so long ago I would have heartily endorsed that view.
But I have gradually become ever more disenchanted with what I perceive to be a massive distance between Obama’s rhetoric, especially his campaign rhetoric, and the positions he’s embraces in office.

He’s been elected twice now with campaigns which are far to the left of where he has been operating once installed. I do understand that a president is not a dictator, and that the level of simple bloody-minded obstructionism is at unprecedented levels, but still.
His constant striving for “bipartisanship” for the vast majority of his time in office was a fucking embarrassment for me and the biggest political disappointment of my lifetime. And I’m not naive, I expect to be disappointed by politicians.
You can’t seek compromise with bullies committed to your destruction, and it’s lunacy to try.

I’d put campaign finance reform as something else that needs to be on the front burner, along with all this NSA stuff, and also the appalling militarization of our domestic police forces. And climate change and a sane energy/resource consumption policy.
We’ve got a long way to go, and it’s going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

308 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:00:13pm

re: #305 gunnison

Apologies on my delays in replying, as I am also frantically packing to get ready to head out on a three week road trip and are going to a play tonight. For which I needed to pull together a picnic dinner.

I think one of the difference we are operating under is that for me, integrity is a big deal. A really big fucking deal. And Snowden’s actions showed he has very little, which makes me very much less inclined to give him the credit of the doubt and also trashes any respect I might have had. It colors my view of events significantly.

It would have been possible to go public with integrity, because sometimes you have to sacrifice your word to uphold a greater good. But for me, part of that would have entailed dealing with the actual consequences of his actions, whatever they might be. His decision to avoid that - to run - says he puts his own self-interest ahead of his integrity and his principles. Fair enough, a lot of people do. But then I have to evaluate why he thought it was in his self-interest to do this in the first place, because it’s hard to argue about “principles” when your “principles” only seem to relate directly to one’s self-interest.

I offer this as insight for why I, at least, have such a negative reaction to Snowden. For me, it smacks of hypocrisy and makes me much less likely to take anything he or his supporters (like Greenwald or his fanclub) say seriously. (Also, seriously, the dude treated his girlfriend like a complete asshole and has apparently had a female Wikileaks “advisor” glued to his side the entire time since he left Hong Kong. Guy could be the best thing since sliced bread and I would be pissed about that - that level of personal disregard for other people is one of my pet peeves.)

Reason also states that, although there can be no real verification either way, the Chinese and Russian intelligence services would not have let that kind of data trove walk out of their reach without investigating it thoroughly.

309 gunnison  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:13:45pm

re: #308 klys

The road trip and the picnic are vastly more important, so for my money that’s where to focus.
I don’t actually disagree with your position as you articulate it here.
For myself, I’ve lived quite a while now, with several episodes of what I now regard as unsatisfactory levels of integrity. My only defense is that it was the best I could do at the time. Whatever integrity I have been able to assemble over my life has been hard-won. It did not come naturally, which given where I started from is not surprising.
So perhaps I’m more, oh I don’t know, maybe elastic about Snowden’s integrity than many people.
I can’t in good conscience hold him (he’s young still) to a higher standard than I myself was able to manage around his age.
I can embrace the idea that he’s motivated by principle and at the same time have an interest in remaining (relatively) free.

Life’s funny, isn’t it?
We really can’t separate the personal from the impersonal to a high degree. We’re all creatures of the paths we have taken, and what we have learned. Or failed to learn.

Enjoy the road trip.
I love road trips.
:)

310 klys  Fri, Aug 2, 2013 4:18:42pm

re: #309 gunnison

I’m slightly younger than him, so that may be where I hold him to a different standard. I just wanted to offer my perspective, at least, to provide some background for at least one reaction to Snowden and why I tend to be negative about him.

The road trip should be great, once we actually get going. I have crochet and small cross stitch projects and there is lots of food prepped and maybe I will actually get to sleep.

311 catfitz56  Mon, Aug 5, 2013 10:04:55am

Human Rights Watch does not have a case. It would be one thing merely to affirm Snowden’s right to apply for asylum, which is universal. But it’s another to make a finding — on the basis of nothing, because they have no finding or report or anything — that he in fact uncovered human rights violations at NSA. There isn’t any evidence of that. You don’t have to have trial-tested proof of a violation in order to make a claim of well-founded persecution, but you at least need *something*. Some kind of case. Some individual who can say his rights were violated. There isn’t any! Snowden refers only to a “suspected hacker’s girlfriend”. Well, care to give us some specifics on that to see if it is bogus or not or what it’s all about?

HRW has gone way over board to embrace Snowden as a human rights activist at a time when Jay Carney put it very succinctly — he’s not, and Putin should care more about practicing human rights activism not just in the airport lounge but all over the country, where he’s cracking down on human rights NGOs, including on HRW. Is that why they’re doing this pretzel twist?

This nonsense that Snowden is “driven” into exile is bizarre — no one ever asks why he didn’t just go to Venezuela first, and leak from there.

3dblogger.typepad.com


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