Russian Journalist on Edward Snowden: “He’s Not His Own Master”

Puppetry
World • Views: 21,749

Russian journalist Andrei Soldatov says Edward Snowden is not in control of his own fate.

The asylum decision gives Russia cover to depict itself as a defender of human rights, pointing a finger to deflect criticism of its own poor record on rights including free speech. But the secrecy that surrounded Snowden’s time at the Moscow airport and his unwillingness so far to talk to the press indicates he is being controlled by Russian intelligence, Andrei Soldatov, a Russian journalist who co-authored a book on the Russian intelligence services said.

“Does he have independent sources of information and communication? My impression is that he has none, which means he’s not his own master,” Soldatov said.

He said Kucherena’s statements about concerns for Snowden’s safety do not hold water.

“We are all perfectly aware that Snowden, who has just received asylum, does not face any danger in Russia,” Soldatov said. “American intelligence does not kidnap or assassinate people in Russia, that’s a fact. This is a just a pretext.”

One of the reasons for keeping Snowden isolated may be to prevent him from speaking about the people he met and what really happened to him during the 39 days he spent in the airport’s transit zone, Soldatov said. For the same reason, Soldatov said he expected Russian authorities to find a job for Snowden that will prevent him from having contacts with journalists.

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296 comments
1 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:18:41pm

I really have no clue what it is that Snowden expected to happen. Was he really so naive to believe that we’d allow him to travel wherever he liked with a US passport, or that Putin would allow him to just leave once we’d revoked that passport? He’s an intelligence asset, only one that’s now in the hands of people who are known for guarding such things jealously.

2 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:19:03pm

Just said this in the previous thread, but I’m okay with Snowden being stuck in Russia for the next twenty to thirty years, living on a small salary with limited means and zero ability to travel of his own accord.

3 Kragar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:19:44pm

So when will GG chime in on this?

4 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:20:26pm

re: #1 Targetpractice

He’s an intelligence asset, only one that’s now in the hands of people who are known for guarding such things jealously.

He’s only an intelligence asset for about four or five more months until everything he knows is no longer accurate. Then he’s just another defector who will be stuck in Russia.

5 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:21:17pm

re: #4 darthstar

He’s only an intelligence asset for about four or five more months until everything he knows is no longer accurate. Then he’s just another defector who will be stuck in Russia.

Pretty much. Then it’s a question of whether the Russians will bore of him and kick his ass out or whether he’ll spend the rest of his days selling bootleg DVDs to stupid tourists.

6 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:21:41pm
7 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:22:29pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

Pretty much. Then it’s a question of whether the Russians will bore of him and kick his ass out or whether he’ll spend the rest of his days selling bootleg DVDs to stupid tourists.

I hope for the latter. He’ll get too much temporary celebrity if they kick him out.

8 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:24:55pm

re: #2 darthstar

Just said this in the previous thread, but I’m okay with Snowden being stuck in Russia for the next twenty to thirty years, living on a small salary with limited means and zero ability to travel of his own accord.

And he can’t tap dance either.

9 b.d.  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:25:27pm

He’s going to try and sneak out of there and then all hell will break loose.

10 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:26:13pm

re: #3 Kragar

So when will GG chime in on this?

On Snowden going incommunicado or on the suggestion that the Russkies has snatched away his meal ticket?

11 b.d.  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:27:48pm

Snowden really does need to do a press conference to show the world just how safe and free he is.

12 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:28:05pm

Sign it.

change.org

13 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:28:41pm

re: #8 Feline Fearless Leader

And he can’t tap dance either.

Upding for the Gregory Hines nod.

14 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:32:41pm

Sign it, share it, retweet it.

15 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:32:47pm

re: #9 b.d.

He’s going to try and sneak out of there and then all hell will break loose.

That should be fun to watch. They’ve taken him to Perm, which is over half a day away from most any embassy he might seek asylum in and days away from Eastern Europe. And considering that Wikileaks isn’t making any noise about how he’s suddenly gone off the media radar, my guess is he’s not going to get any help from them to aid in his escape. And the locals will be hard-pressed to find a reason to put their own asses in trouble with the law to help some dumbshit yankee escape from the country that just granted him asylum.

16 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:37:42pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

That should be fun to watch. They’ve taken him to Perm, which is over half a day away from most any embassy he might seek asylum in and days away from Eastern Europe. And considering that Wikileaks isn’t making any noise about how he’s suddenly gone off the media radar, my guess is he’s not going to get any help from them to aid in his escape. And the locals will be hard-pressed to find a reason to put their own asses in trouble with the law to help some dumbshit yankee escape from the country that just granted him asylum.

He is becoming more and more like Lee Harvey Oswald every day.

He will marry some Russian girl, work at some crap job, and maybe years from now they’ll turn him loose and he’ll be stocking shelves at some Walmart in Texas.

17 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:40:33pm

Well, In my whole life experience I could never image somebody living in Russia and the following words used about him, ” he’s not his own master,” Ed..If you are that stupid to hide in Russia in the name of Freedom, Then good luck with that.. Help save us Ed..We need you..

18 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:40:47pm

re: #16 Vicious Babushka

He is becoming more and more like Lee Harvey Oswald every day.

He will marry some Russian girl, work at some crap job, and maybe years from now they’ll turn him loose and he’ll be stocking shelves at some Walmart in Texas.

He can check out any time he likes, but he can never leave.

19 AlexRogan  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:42:58pm

re: #2 darthstar

Just said this in the previous thread, but I’m okay with Snowden being stuck in Russia for the next twenty to thirty years, living on a small salary with limited means and zero ability to travel of his own accord.

Damn, schadenfreude is tasty as hell…

20 Kragar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:52:48pm
21 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 7:57:14pm

re: #3 Kragar

So when will GG chime in on this?

Please, join the program and refer to him as The GG. It’ll drive him nuts if it becomes the normal form of address.

The GG hath spaked!

22 Kragar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:14:42pm

Fuck, shit, horse piss, son of a two-balled bitch, motherfucker

Youtube Video

23 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:19:49pm

well, outing himself while in Hong Kong was kinda the giveway about that…

24 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:22:27pm

re: #22 Kragar

Fuck, shit, horse piss, son of a two-balled bitch, motherfucker

[Embedded content]

Sweet. And I think I memorized it on the first listen.

25 Stanley Sea  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:24:46pm
26 Gus  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:25:47pm

re: #25 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Awesome. No Egypt can blame all of their ineptitude on McCain and MURICA! Death to America! You do realize that the anti-Morsi liberals and seculars in Egypt hate the JUICE and Israel I hope.

27 Gus  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:26:45pm

Egypt elected the Muslim Brotherhood on their own. If Egypt held another election tomorrow they’d elect the Muslim Brotherhood again. Same old boring stupid anti-American bologna.

28 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:28:40pm

re: #25 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

gotta take his trends wherever he can…

29 Kragar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:29:58pm

Wisconsin lawmaker threatened with arrest for observing progressive protest

A Wisconsin lawmaker and a state official were both threatened with arrest on Tuesday for observing a progressive “Solidarity Sing Along” protest at the state Capitol.

State Rep. Sondy Pope (D-Middleton) and executive secretary Tia Nelson of the Board of Commissioners of Public Lands told Isthmus they were threatened with arrest by a Capitol Police officer. The officer told the two women that anyone who stood to watch the protest rather than moving along was subject to arrest.

“As a legislator I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States. I think what [the police] are doing is unconstitutional. How can you arrest me for observing?” told Isthmus.

A video uploaded to YouTube on Tuesday showed another woman being warned by a police officer.

“He told me that it has been declared an unlawful event because there are more than 20 people here. I told him that I was not with that group, that I was watching, and that even though I was just watching, just videoing, I had to leave or I would be subject to arrest,” the woman said.

30 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:30:16pm

re: #12 darthstar

Sign it.

change.org

Done.

31 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:33:52pm

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

Done.

Cool, thanks…if the IOC does move the Olympics to Vancouver, I might go see them for the first time in my life. Never been. Love Vancouver.

32 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:33:54pm

re: #28 Backwoods_Sleuth

gotta take his trends wherever he can…

Well, President Obama did ask him to go there. And he knew McCain doesn’t like to mince words.

And McCain sure didn’t mince any words about Vladimir Putin: “President Bush said he ‘looked into his [Putin’s] eyes and saw his soul’. Well, I looked into Putin’s eyes and I saw three letters: a K, a G, and a B.”

33 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:39:55pm

re: #2 darthstar

Just said this in the previous thread, but I’m okay with Snowden being stuck in Russia for the next twenty to thirty years, living on a small salary with limited means and zero ability to travel of his own accord.

And I’m still sure he’d prefer that to an 8 x 8 in Leavenworth

34 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:42:55pm

re: #33 sattv4u2

And I’m still sure he’d prefer that to an 8 x 8 in Leavenworth

Maybe.

35 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:45:36pm

re: #34 darthstar

Maybe.

Well, it is colder there than in Kansas. But if we see larger scale AGW, Russia’s climate would actually turn pleasant. So it might be a nice place in 30 years.

/tongue firmly in cheek

36 Kragar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:46:56pm

Russian journalists face charges over ‘negative’ Winter Olympics stories

Two journalists and a newspaper director are said to be facing criminal charges after reporting stories viewed by local authorities as negative.

Some journalists told HRW that the authorities are seeking to control information about the preparations for the Sochi games by pressuring editors to present them in a positive light.

In addition, several independent online news sources and blogs that have posted critical stories or comments about the Olympics have had their sites disabled by hackers.

“Press freedom is a central tenet of the Olympic charter and no successful games can take place in an atmosphere in which journalists are afraid to report on stories of legitimate public interest,” said HRW’s Jane Buchanan.

She added that the International Olympic Committee “should insist that the Russian authorities guarantee full media freedom for each and every journalist reporting in, or travelling to, Sochi.”

37 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:47:55pm

In a year (or so) Russia (translation,, VLAD) will tire of him and enable him to take another asylum offer and let him leave the country

38 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:48:35pm

And for that reason, it’s STILL better than an 8 x 8 in Kansas!

39 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:48:52pm

and on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

40 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:49:55pm

Rihanna does something a good bit dumber than starring in ‘Battleship’:

Never one to shy away from controversy, Rihanna was seen running her tongue over her teeth in the picture, captioning it: ‘Up watching Cocaine Cowboyz #KillinDeseHeauxz #phuckyogrill #ilickthegunwhenimdonecuziknowthatrevengeissweet.’

The top half of the grills were moulded into the shape of a machine gun, while the bottom were just plain gold.

Rihanna then tweeted another shot of her new accessory, writing: ‘She + AK.’

Her comment is believed to have been in reference to an AK47 assault rifle.

Image: article-2386154-1B3023BA000005DC-935_634x499.jpg

41 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:55:40pm

re: #32 Dark_Falcon

Well, President Obama did ask him to go there. And he knew McCain doesn’t like to mince words.

And McCain sure didn’t mince any words about Vladimir Putin: “President Bush said he ‘looked into his [Putin’s] eyes and saw his soul’. Well, I looked into Putin’s eyes and I saw three letters: a K, a G, and a B.”

It’s about Bush now?
sorry…I’m sleepy now and off to dreamland.

*yawn*

42 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 8:58:51pm

re: #41 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s about Bush now?
sorry…I’m sleepy now and off to dreamland.

*yawn*

It’s was McCain saying Bush had an overly optimistic view of Putin, whereas McCain came to know Putin’s ilk through the suffering they inflicted upon him.

43 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:20:57pm

re: #41 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s about Bush now?
sorry…I’m sleepy now and off to dreamland.

*yawn*

I wish.. The last couple of months here in Oklahoma we keep having thunderstorms blow through in the middle of the night. ( And a few F1 tornadoes and numerous others to boot ) Another is on the way.. So at like 3am we’ll get thunderstorms that are impossible to sleep through..By 7am and up all night and pissed as hell it’s time to go to work. You know..You try to sleep and it’s quiet for a few minutes at 5am and you’ll close your eyes and slowly fall away..Then BOOM!..BAM!…Come on man just let me sleeppp—-BOOM! Ah Shit! Boom Boom! I give the f*ck up..
I don’t get it..What do they want from me..I’ve got to work in the morning..And why is everybody so damn friendly here? I spend a night up enduring Thunder all night and pissed the hell off and I go through the security line to get into my building and am faced with shinny happy people..Good morning Mr. Hoopster..How are you today?
I try..I really try to be nice..Grrr. Good Morning to you..grrr.Why are people talking to me? I’m holding hot coffee in my hand and they won’t stop talking to me..grrr..
A nice smiling security guard handing me back the bin holding everything in my pockets gleefully saying, ‘Big storm last night huh? ’
Why yes..Big storm..Why are people still talking to me and what the hell is he so happy about? I’m usually half-way human by lunch..
That’s the way it has been for the last couple of months..So..There is another severe thunderstorm hitting us in a few hours. Another all-nighter..
They do storms in Oklahoma.. No play school shit..

44 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:26:41pm

re: #43 A Man for all Seasons

AHEM. It’s why some of us, live, well, you know where!

45 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:37:19pm

re: #44 Dancing along the light of day

AHEM. It’s why some of us, live, well, you know where!

Hi You! We need to chat again..It’s been too long young lady..
I’ll be out in California to visit family soon..Nikki is getting Married and Dad is excited!
LOL

46 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:40:08pm

re: #44 Dancing along the light of day

AHEM. It’s why some of us, live, well, you know where!

Well, warmth is of great import to many. [waves]

47 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:40:10pm

re: #45 A Man for all Seasons

I just might make your phone ring!

48 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:40:43pm

re: #47 Dancing along the light of day

I just might make your phone ring!

Make my day..

49 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:49:30pm

He’s right.

50 Amory Blaine  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 9:55:24pm

re: #29 Kragar

Wisconsin lawmaker threatened with arrest for observing progressive protest

Pressure must be building on the administration.

State officials say they won’t issue citations to Solidarity Singalong observers

Observers of the Solidarity Singalong won’t be cited, state officials said Wednesday, just hours after police told people in the Capitol rotunda they could be arrested for watching the regular noontime protest.

Capitol Police have been issuing arrest warnings to observers since the first week police started citing singers for failing to get a permit to gather in the Capitol rotunda. The warnings gained greater attention this week when state Rep. Sondy Pope, D-Cross Plains, received one.

Department of Administration spokeswoman Stephanie Marquis said in an email that “observers will not receive citations” in response to a State Journal inquiry about what authority the state had to cite observers. DOA officials declined to discuss why police were warning observers.

UW-Madison political science professor Donald Downs said the right to listen is an inherent part of the First Amendment protection of free speech.

51 darthstar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 10:01:29pm
52 Amory Blaine  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 10:39:24pm

Dana Milbank: The GOP flips the script on Obama

Republicans need to make up their minds: Is President Obama a socialist or a corporate stooge?
“The president claims his economic agenda is for the middle class. But it’s actually for the well-connected,” U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan, the GOP’s 2012 vice presidential nominee, wrote last week in USA Today, rejecting Obama’s latest proposal for a corporate tax cut. “There’s no doubt that it works well for them. But for the rest of us, it’s not working at all.”

Ryan, in his brief commentary, protested that Obama is “interested in tax reform for corporations — but not for families or small business.” He further accused Obama of implementing health-care and regulatory policies favoring big businesses and big banks.

That’s rich.

Ryan, after all, is the guy who just a year ago accused Obama of “sowing social unrest and class resentment,” of supporting “a government-run economy” and of “denigrating people who are successful.” He has charged the president with leading the nation toward “a cradle-to-grave, European-style social welfare state.”

…..

53 Kragar  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 11:06:37pm

re: #52 Amory Blaine

The GOP figures if their base will ignore the facts since 1964, they might as well give it a shot again.

54 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 11:12:31pm

romney telling teabaggers not to shut down the government?

romney telling teabaggers to do anything seems to me like a surefire way to get them to do the opposite

55 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 7, 2013 11:14:51pm

Is President Obama a socialist or a corporate stooge?

he can easily be both, as we hebrews know well since we are so often depicted simultaneously as ‘international financiers’ trying to take everybody’s money and communists trying to give it away to everybody

56 Kragar  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 12:35:25am

Santorum: Liberals ‘make it uncomfortable’ to shower at the YMCA

Rick Santorum told the group Students for Life that the truth would only win “if you have the passion, winsomeness and charity to bring to this debate, to bring it to your communities, to bring it to every aspect of your life.”

“You see, what the left does, what the pro-choice movement does is they just don’t focus on their little issue, they focus on everything they do and every aspect of their life,” he explained. “They make it uncomfortable for students who come to Austin to shower at a young men’s Christian association YMCA gym.”

57 freetoken  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 12:37:34am
58 teleskiguy  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 1:04:10am

OT from original post. Still though:

59 Kragar  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 1:12:15am

Military sexual assault victims allege San Diego Mayor Bob Filner harassed them

Two more women have come forward to accuse San Diego mayor Bob Filner of sexual harassment, bringing the number to 13 and piling pressure on him to resign.

Eldonna Fernandez and Gerri Tindley said Filner posed as a champion of women in the military but abused his power and their trust by making unwanted sexual advances.

CNN on Wednesday played a voicemail message he left for Fernandez after an August 2012 meeting of the National Women’s Veterans Association of America (NWVAA): “Hi, it’s your newly favourite congressman, Bob Filner. You know, the one who fell in love with you at your last speech.” He invited her on a date. “I don’t want to wait ‘til you come back to have dinner with you.”

At the same event Tindley, who had spoken of being raped during her time in the army, said Filner made her feel “weird” by accosting her on a sofa when they were alone. “He got as close as he could to me. His jacket was touching my jacket. I was bent down. He was bent down with me, rubbing like he cared, like he was consoling me.” Tindley said she almost fell off the sofa trying to move away from him.

61 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 3:27:55am

WTF? And all that free advertising on the Today show, too. No doubt now that she’s a “respectable” pregnant married woman, she has all kinds of regrets and has to dump her guilt on the public this way.

today.com

Now they don’t even have to open their mouths to proselytize. But at least you’ll know who you’re dealing with.

62 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:30:07am

re: #59 Kragar

I hope he knows he won’t be able to get his favorite kind of booze in Hell.

63 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:31:26am

Good morning Lizardia!

I had an interesting experience. I was wondering how wingnuts explain egregious racism within their own ranks (since they are always bleating DEMOCRATZ IS TEH RACIST!!!111!!) so I Googled “David Duke Republican racist.”

Lo and behold the TARDIS doors slid open and I found myself back at LGF in February of 2009.

We have traveled a long way down that road. It made me understand that the reason wingnuts do not understand history is because they don’t know math, don’t understand how sets work and can’t visualize a Venn diagram.

A wingnut does not understand why the first set of statements is TRUE and why the second set of statements is not.

1. All racists are evil.
2. David Duke is a racist.
3. Therefore, David Duke is evil. TRUE

The Venn diagram consists of a single circle representing the set of all racists, and DD is a point within that set.

1. Hitler was a vegetarian.
2. Hitler was evil.
3. Therefore, all vegetarians are evil. FALSE

The Venn diagram consists of two circles, the set of all vegetarians and the set of all evil people, and the intersection of the two circles contain all the evil vegetarians, including Hitler.

Wingnuts who are constantly bleating such-and-such asshole was a DEMOCRAT, therefore ALL DEMOCRATS ARE ASSHOLES never paid attention to math while they were being home schooled.

64 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:44:12am

re: #63 Vicious Babushka

Well, to be fair, the ‘baggers were still a recent phenomenon in 2009, and the worst, and their idiots cheerleaders, like Palin (their “pin-up girl”), hadn’t taken over the Rs messaging totally. But they were working on it, although they seem to have doubled down since That Black Guy won a second term.

To the RW, it’s perfectly OK to fly your racist freak flag these days. And unfortunately, it’s perfectly OK to do that, even among some “respectable” types, under the guise of “policy” discussions.

65 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:47:59am

re: #63 Vicious Babushka

Wingnuts who are constantly bleating such-and-such asshole was a DEMOCRAT, therefore ALL DEMOCRATS ARE ASSHOLES never paid attention to math while they were being home schooled.

Or the inverse: Here is a black Republican, therefore the Republicans can’t be racist.

66 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:48:51am

It’s Yoho, competing very hard with GOHMERT! Stockman, Fincher, Rand Paul, Paul Ryan,…wow there are A LOT of contenders for MOAST DERP in the GOP…

67 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:50:21am

re: #65 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Or the inverse: Here is a black Republican, therefore the Republicans can’t be racist.

That’s Prudence’s MOAST FAVORITEST DERP these days.

68 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 4:56:20am

Hillary says Please Proceed

69 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:01:52am

re: #61 Justanotherhuman

Bless her heart…

I hate to break it to her, but EVERY single one of my son’s bullies in both middle and high school were self-proclaimed “Christians”. Including one minister’s son. She also must not be aware that anti-bullying laws and programs in schools are often fought by churches and “Christian” groups. I’m not saying ALL Christians are like this, but a lot of cover for bad behavior is provided by some “Christian” outlets.

I suppose the clothing line might sell well in some places, but while the clothes themselves are up to date styles, all that writing plastered across them in giant letters is kinda ugly. If you’re secure in your faith, why the hell not just read your Bible? I have never understood this need for some people to be totally surrounded by reminders of their faith and if they are not, they’re somehow oppressed or in dangerous territory.

70 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:02:34am

Another day, another mass shooting. Let’s see if Dim Jim announces that TEH SHOOTER WAZ A DEMOCRATS!!!!11!!

71 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:06:03am

re: #69 A Mom Anon

Bless her heart…

I hate to break it to her, but EVERY single one of my son’s bullies in both middle and high school were self-proclaimed “Christians”. Including one minister’s son. She also must not be aware that anti-bullying laws and programs in schools are often fought by churches and “Christian” groups. I’m not saying ALL Christians are like this, but a lot of cover for bad behavior is provided by some “Christian” outlets.

Every single one of the mean girls who bullied me in middle school were JAPS (they were NOT Japanese). One of the names they called me was “N-Word Hair” because I had curly hair.

In high school I hung out with a bunch of black kids. My best friend was African-American and weighed like 250 lbs. My parents freaked out because they were afraid that you can catch TEH BLAH and also TEH FAT.

72 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:10:19am

You just know Snowjob is kissing major ass in Russia.

Local Russian TV channel broadcasts rare critical segment about Putin reuters.com

“Local portal UralPolit.ru said the video was aired on July 31 by a disgruntled staffer and quoted Shagiyev as saying the person responsible for the “hooliganism prank” would be fired.”

73 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:12:45am

re: #71 Vicious Babushka

Down south, we have CAPs. : )

74 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:15:40am

re: #70 Vicious Babushka

Sigh. I wonder if it’s occurred to any of the anti-gun law people that each of these incidents just might be their God telling them there’s a problem here? A lot of them like to talk shit about how bad weather is a sign of God teaching us a lesson, or being poor is God teaching you a lesson, or having a child with a disability is a lesson, or being pregnant from a rape is a gift from God,etc, etc. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that these mass shootings might be a sign from God that we ought to rethink what we’re doing regarding guns. Except to get rid of what little rules remain. Arm everyone! It’s fun for the whole family!! Jesus wants you to have an AK!!Yay!!!

I honestly thought after all the school shootings we’ve had that at some point adult humans would pull their heads out of their asses and figure out that easy access to firearms might not be a good idea overall. FFS it’s harder to get a driver’s license and car insurance than it is to buy a gun. But nooo, the second amendment trumps ALL of the others.

75 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:17:21am

re: #74 A Mom Anon

Sigh. I wonder if it’s occurred to any of the anti-gun law people that each of these incidents just might be their God telling them there’s a problem here? A lot of them like to talk shit about how bad weather is a sign of God teaching us a lesson, or being poor is God teaching you a lesson, or having a child with a disability is a lesson, or being pregnant from a rape is a gift from God,etc, etc. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that these mass shootings might be a sign from God that we ought to rethink what we’re doing regarding guns. Except to get rid of what little rules remain. Arm everyone! It’s fun for the whole family!! Jesus wants you to have an AK!!Yay!!!

I honestly thought after all the school shootings we’ve had that at some point adult humans would pull their heads out of their asses and figure out that easy access to firearms might not be a good idea overall. FFS it’s harder to get a driver’s license and car insurance than it is to buy a gun. But nooo, the second amendment trumps ALL of the others.

Every time there is a mass shooting the standard wingnut response is:

WE NEADS MOAR GUNZ!!11!!
TEH SHOOTER WAZ A DEMOCRAT!!111!!!
FALSE FLAG!!11!!OBUMA WANTZ 2 TAEK AWAY ARE GUNZ!!11!!

76 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:17:58am

DERP

77 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:21:31am

re: #71 Vicious Babushka

When my son was in elementary school most of his friends were black girls. They kept the bullies away and protected him. He remained friends, sort of, with one of them all through school, but sadly she succumbed to peer pressure. It wasn’t at all cool to be friends with my son, he was in effect, socially,well, blacklisted, anyone caught hanging out with or talking to him was a bully target too.

So how is an autistic child ever supposed to learn how to be social if no one will SOCIALIZE with him? To this day it’s an issue we’re struggling very hard with. His peers are entering their second year of college, he is struggling just with what he’s supposed to do next. This would be one of those problems a Bible verse on a pair of jeans isn’t going to fix.

78 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:22:35am

re: #73 Justanotherhuman

LOL, oh my, yes we do…. and then some.

79 mr.JA  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:28:09am

Sure Russia isn’t really the hallmark of democracy and equal treatment of people under the law, but to cancel meetings etc. over this is a little over-the-top.
There are no extradition contracts between the US and Russia, and the US also does not extradite everyone that is requested by another state.
It really should be a minor issue.

If a KGB staffer would go to the US and leak secrets about Russian surveillance (Which is probably a lot less court-checked that what PRISM does), the same people who ask Snowdon do be prosecuted for treason would probably regard the same man from the other side a hero.

I’m not American, but I think that Obama by cancelling an appointment with Putin makes too big of a deal out of it, and concerning the history of the US and extradition of controversial figures, it smells a bit hypocritical.

80 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:31:31am

re: #76 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

It’s not even about Glennlandia, surprise, surprise, but about Julia Ioffe, born in Russia, an immigrant who went to Princeton and became a writer.

Well, I was born in the US, too, but that doesn’t make me an “expert” on foreign relations of any country. Esp one who goes ahead and makes her “points” in this obscenity-filled article which we’re supposed to seriously consider. Grow up, Julia, you’re not the expert you think you are.

A plus, though: She throws Assange under the bus, but not her good friend, GG.

81 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:33:11am

My anniversary gift from Zedushka.

(OK I picked it out & ordered it & left it for him to find and give me)

82 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:39:27am

*FACE PALM*

83 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:40:04am

So Reince is derping on the teevee this morning:

84 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:47:39am

re: #76 Vicious Babushka

I saw that interview and she was trying to play Putin off as the innocent guy who doesn’t even really know what is going on in his country and is completely powerless to effect change there if he wanted to, which she seems to think he doesn’t.

She kept equating Obama to Putin (Neither Putin or Obama rule their country with an iron fist or control, or even know about or could do anything about, small goings on in such a big country!) and Lawrence wasn’t putting up with any of it.

85 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:49:07am

re: #82 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*

[Embedded content]

GG has really seemed to go off the deep end over the last few days, even by his standard.

86 Internet Tough Guy  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:50:46am

I think someone needs to let Glenn know that acting like a whiny passive aggressive child does not help one’s cause.

87 geoffm33  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:53:10am

re: #86 Internet Tough Guy

I think someone needs to let Glenn know that acting like a whiny passive aggressive child does not help one’s cause.

He is appealing to whiny passive aggressive children. I don’t see the problem.

88 geoffm33  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:54:18am

Here we go again…

89 Internet Tough Guy  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:55:26am

re: #87 geoffm33

You’re right. I’m sorry, for a moment I was under the delusion that The GG was interested in affecting change, not attention whoring.

90 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:58:01am

re: #88 geoffm33

Here we go again…

[Embedded content]

Thanks for fighting in the War on Derp.

91 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 5:59:01am
92 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:00:55am

LOLWUT Tweety?

93 Internet Tough Guy  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:02:33am

re: #91 Lidane

[Embedded content]

lolz the US Justice System and the Russian Justice System are equivalent.

NOPE

94 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:02:47am

re: #88 geoffm33

Here we go again…

Some Anti-Derp resources to bookmark:

Jefferson Fake Quotes.
Washington Fake Quotes.
Bogus “Pro-Gun” Quotes (this is from a “Gun Nut” site!)
Bogus Hitler Quote (from a “Gun Nut” site!)

95 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:03:22am

re: #88 geoffm33

Here we go again…

[Embedded content]

For the wingnut brigade, truth is a meaningless concept; truth is what they say it is, and for them, that is the only truth that matters. For them, truth is subjective, not objective, and any evidence found from historic records, etc., is simply to be either ignored or cherry-picked until they find something - no matter how trivial or out-of-context - to support their ideology.

96 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:06:55am

re: #95 Dr Lizardo

For the wingnut brigade, truth is a meaningless concept; truth is what they say it is, and for them, that is the only truth that matters. For them, truth is subjective, not objective, and any evidence found from historic records, etc., is simply to be either ignored or cherry-picked until they find something - no matter how trivial or out-of-context - to support their ideology.

Also, as I explained above, wingnuts are incapable of understanding a logical construct based on intersecting sets. They will INVARIABLY fuck up a logic statement or misuse an analogy and beat up a straw man.

Oh and EID MUBARAK TO YOU!

97 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:09:19am

re: #91 Lidane

[Embedded content]

How would we ever even know if a “Russian Edward Snowden” showed up at JFK? Or if there even was a “Russian Edward Snowden”?

98 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:09:59am

re: #97 b.d.

How would we ever even know if a “Russian Edward Snowden” showed up at JFK?

They came prepackaged in a body bag? /

99 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:11:09am

re: #96 Vicious Babushka

Also, as I explained above, wingnuts are incapable of understanding a logical construct based on intersecting sets. They will INVARIABLY fuck up a logic statement or misuse an analogy and beat up a straw man.

Oh and EID MUBARAK TO YOU!

Thanks for the Eid greetings; shalom aleichem.

Wingnuts are impervious to logic, because obviously, logic is from the Devil. / (only half-kidding, unfortunately, as anti-intellectualism is rampant on the far-right)

100 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:13:22am

From the racism just doesn’t exist in the US anymore files:

The NY Daily News is posting a $10,000 reward on information leading to the arrest of the individual(s) who spray painted racist graffiti on an iconic statue of Jackie Robinson and Pee Ree Reese outside the Brooklyn Cyclones ballpark in Coney Island.

They racist scrawls included a swastika, a Hitler reference, and the n-word.

101 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:14:27am

Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush committed WAY MOAR MURDERZ but wingnuts just conveniently forget this.

102 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:16:21am

Dick Lugar on Chuckles Todd saying Putin was put in an “impossible” situation re Snowjob.

So, Dick, sympathy for Putin, and tangentially for Snowden, but nothing for our POTUS and the country you once represented? What a disgrace you are.

103 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:17:39am

re: #102 Justanotherhuman

Dick Lugar on Chuckles Todd saying Putin was put in an “impossible” situation re Snowjob.

So, Dick, sympathy for Putin, and tangentially for Snowden, but nothing for our POTUS and the country you once represented? What a disgrace you are.

BUT PUTIN LOOKS LIKE SUCH A MANLY MAN!!1!

104 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:19:03am

re: #103 Dr Lizardo

A plus: He’s not Black, either.

105 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:19:50am

re: #69 A Mom Anon

I suppose the clothing line might sell well in some places, but while the clothes themselves are up to date styles, all that writing plastered across them in giant letters is kinda ugly. If you’re secure in your faith, why the hell not just read your Bible? I have never understood this need for some people to be totally surrounded by reminders of their faith and if they are not, they’re somehow oppressed or in dangerous territory.

Well part of it is that, according to the article another aim of the clothing line is to encourage evangelism. The former model herself she’s hopeful that kids at school or wherever will see the messages on the clothing and start asking about what they mean, thus starting a discussion about God, Jesus, etc.

The Great Commission can explain a lot of odd things Christians do, many of them unproductive. There are several right ways and many, many wrong ways to go about sharing one’s faith with another. Unfortunately many believers are bona fide experts at doing it wrong.

106 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:20:30am

re: #102 Justanotherhuman

Dick Lugar on Chuckles Todd saying Putin was put in an “impossible” situation re Snowjob.

So, Dick, sympathy for Putin, and tangentially for Snowden, but nothing for our POTUS and the country you once represented? What a disgrace you are.

Now Putin knows how us Republicans feel when we have to deal with the current WHITE house pRESIDENT!!1!

107 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:21:21am
108 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:22:06am

re: #92 Lidane

LOLWUT Tweety?

[Embedded content]

No doubt in my mind it will be a slugfest between Paul and Cruz as to who can be the most reactionary. I hope they knock each other out.

109 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:23:31am

re: #107 Gus

[Embedded content]

Henry Ford thought it was such a good book, he ran off half a million copies of it.

110 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:24:10am

re: #101 Vicious Babushka

Conveniently ignoring the definition of murder (unlawful killing). If the president sanctioned a war or conflict, those killed in the fighting aren’t murdered under criminal justice concepts of murder.

And as you note, that bit of quoted derpgasm ignores the fact that Nixon intensified the fighting in Vietnam, expanded the conflict to Laos and Cambodia, and Reagan fought several conflicts in Central America.

Oh, and the war in Laos was a secret war, where the US had 30,000 troops fighting inside Laos…

111 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:24:28am

re: #109 Dr Lizardo

Henry Ford thought it was such a good book, he ran off half a million copies of it.

I see. So if it was good enough for Henry Ford…

112 Internet Tough Guy  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:24:38am

re: #107 Gus

Right-wing propaganda, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion….when are they going to find his copy of Atlas Shrugged?

113 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:25:26am

re: #109 Dr Lizardo

Henry Ford thought it was such a good book, he ran off half a million copies of it.

Yeah well, at least he didn’t include a copy in the glove compartment of every new Model T.

114 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:26:03am

re: #92 Lidane

LOLWUT Tweety?

[Embedded content]

Tweety isn’t above stirring the pot for a bit of fun either.

115 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:29:21am

re: #111 Gus

I see. So if it was good enough for Henry Ford…

Heh. Ford was a pretty hardcore anti-Semite. Interestingly, when Christian Fundies get all huffy about anti-Semitism in Islam - and sadly, yes there is anti-Semitism among Muslims, which I as a Muslim find appalling - I like to hit ‘em with ‘On The Jews And Their Lies’ by Martin Luther.

Luther was a fanatical anti-Semite; in his invective, he was unparalleled until Der Stürmer.

116 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:29:24am

Youtube Video

117 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:29:33am

re: #92 Lidane

LOLWUT Tweety?

[Embedded content]

Rand Paul the GOP nominee in ‘16? Jesus and I aren’t nearly good enough buddies for him to bestow such a gift upon the DNC.

118 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:29:52am

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

Yeah well, at least he didn’t include a copy in the glove compartment of every new Model T.

I’d be willing to bet he thought about it.

119 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:30:18am

re: #114 b.d.

Tweety isn’t above stirring the pot for a bit of fun either.

The universe doesn’t love me enough to give me Rand Paul as the 2016 GOP nominee. If he even gets past Super Tuesday I’ll be amazed. Whoever the nominee is, it won’t be Rand.

120 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:30:58am

re: #107 Gus

Man that guy was a waste. His uncle was right on him.

121 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:32:10am

re: #119 Lidane

The universe doesn’t love me enough to give me Rand Paul as the 2016 GOP nominee. If he even gets past Super Tuesday I’ll be amazed. Whoever the nominee is, it won’t be Rand.

Rand Paul is too much of a libertarian for the SoCons in the GOP base.

I could see Rick Santorum holding some appeal for the wingnut segment, however, despite his Catholicism.

122 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:33:09am

re: #121 Dr Lizardo

Part of me wonders if 2016 is when the Socon wing and the Libertarian Wing divorce.

123 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:33:41am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

[Embedded content]

Erickson has been on a Greenwaldian like quest for attention lately.

124 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:35:15am

re: #122 ProTARDISLiberal

Part of me wonders if 2016 is when the Socon wing and the Libertarian Wing divorce.

Could be; it’s a distinct possibility, though I’d say it would be in the wake of an electoral disaster on the part of the GOP.

The SoCons may go off and form their own party, or the Libertarians leave en masse for the already-existing Libertarian Party.

125 Ian G.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:36:14am

re: #76 Vicious Babushka

I used to wonder who would replace Chomsky when he finally kicked the bucket. Greenwald it is. Their methods are pretty much identical:

1) latch onto an unsavory and/or hypocritical action taken by the US and go full metal hyperbole to describe it

2) ignore equal or worse actions taken by governments opposed to the US (and smear anyone who points them out).

3) Profit!

126 geoffm33  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:37:17am

Completely Random OT:

If you live in eastern MA (or have friends/relative that do) and are looking for a dog or cat companion:

The Challenge Clock is Ticking: Help Us Save Lives Before August 31!

The Animal Rescue League of Boston is trying to save 1200 cats and dogs in 12 weeks. If they reach their goal, they can secure grant money from the ASPCA.

Back to your regularly scheduled programs….

127 Ian G.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:37:31am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

If you’re a Republican, you probably have an unsatisfying sex life. #confessyourunpopularopinions

128 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:37:42am

re: #125 Ian G.

I used to wonder who would replace Chomsky when he finally kicked the bucket. Greenwald it is. Their methods are pretty much identical:

1) latch onto an unsavory and/or hypocritical action taken by the US and go full metal hyperbole to describe it

2) ignore equal or worse actions taken by governments opposed to the US (and smear anyone who points them out).

3) Profit!

Chomsky actually has some academic creds outside the World of Derp.

129 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:38:50am

re: #124 Dr Lizardo

If that should happen, the Democrats could shift to the left in a big way.

The poitical landsacpe would look like Democrats 47-50%, SOCONS ~30%, and Libertarians the remain 20%.

The inverse of Canada.

130 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:39:19am

re: #119 Lidane

The universe doesn’t love me enough to give me Rand Paul as the 2016 GOP nominee. If he even gets past Super Tuesday I’ll be amazed. Whoever the nominee is, it won’t be Rand.

Paul’s definitely trying his best to get ahead on GOTV and getting the ground game together in Iowa and other key indicator states ahead of the 2016 race, which has yet to officially kickoff.

However, I’m with you in thinking Paul wont be the nominee. He’s got to leapfrog Santorum, who was second in 2012’s GOP primary scrum, and he’d probably benefit from outsider status once again and has the socon values that the core GOP wants, without the libertarian/isolationist bent of the Paulbots.

131 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:39:20am

re: #122 ProTARDISLiberal

Part of me wonders if 2016 is when the Socon wing and the Libertarian Wing divorce.

I think it largely depends on where the party sits after next year. A serious disaster next November might mean a much earlier schism and possibly even a major third party candidate, ala ‘92.

132 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:41:22am

re: #131 Targetpractice

Yeah, but what are the chances of that? This is the midterms we are talking about.

133 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:42:35am

re: #90 Vicious Babushka

Thanks for fighting in the War on Derp.

Now that got my creative juices going. In the style of World War Z:

PHOENIX, ARIZONA

[John Graham looks much older than his actual age, his body and spirit worn down by years of fighting in one of the most active fronts of World War D. Despite his weakness, the man still has a fire in his heart.]

It had been brewing for awhile but it didn’t get really bad until around 2009. My God, as soon as we elected that black guy to the White House it was like everything went straight to hell. It was “come out and play” time for all the racists, bigots and religious whackos that had been hiding in the brush for so long.

Suddenly they weren’t fringe crazies anymore, they were serious political commentators and by god, some of them actually got elected to public office!

That’s what really what started the whole mess and made things like this possible.

[He hands me a picture, it shows a street piled with debris and several groups of people fighting each other. Among the debris one can easily make out Gadsden flags, Rand Paul 2016 signs and clothing with the confederate logo on it.]

Messy huh? Those bastards put up a good fight for awhile, but we knew in the end we’d beat them.

How could you be so sure?

Well for one we had youth on our side. I think I could count on one hand the guys under 35 I saw on their side. Us? We had 18-25 year olds signing up daily to help out. Kids who really felt this was their world now and they needed to stand up for it.

Also, on a pure numbers basis we had an advantage. It wasn’t always easy getting our people down here to Arizona, but even with the challenges we were able to bring in reinforcements at close to double the rate the Ds could.

If the advantage in numbers was so high, why weren’t the casualties lower?

Well for one thing, initially we underestimated what were dealing with. Christ, those guys were well armed. These survivalist crazies, most of them had enough weapons and resources to easily supply a small to midsize army for quite awhile. Even with cutting the supply routes off, they could still carry out strong attacks for months on end. It took a lot longer to wear them down than we anticipated.

You didn’t want it to come to violence did you?

I’d like to think hardly anybody did…on our side at least. But the Ds, my goodness…Always making veiled threats, flaunting their machismo, talking about their impressive guns and desire to “protect and defend America”. Most of the time we thought it was just empty posturing, but we never forgot who fired the first shot. As soon as that keg was lit, it was over. Diplomacy was not an option.

You ever tried to convince a D to listen to reason? [He laughs.] That’s a losing cause if there ever was one. These people get so entrenched with their beliefs that they are absolutely unable and unwilling to accept any information that may contradict them, even if that information is 100% undeniable facts.

So you did try?

A number of times, but after awhile I got tired of the lather, rinse, repeat crap and realized I wasn’t getting anywhere. No, it became clear to me at that point that this thing wasn’t going to be settled by talking.

[He pauses, contemplating for a moment]

You know what bothered me the most? It wasn’t the bloodshed, the screams, the mess we left some of the cities in. No, it was looking across at the faces of those people and knowing, just knowing that somewhere, buried below all the hate was a real human being, a good person, someone who really did love his family and his fellow man. It was always there, but now it was being terribly suppressed. There were so many times I wished I had a way to bring it out of them…but I never found one.

134 darthstar  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:42:37am

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

135 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:42:56am

re: #132 ProTARDISLiberal

Yeah, but what are the chances of that? This is the midterms we are talking about.

Actually pretty good, better if McConnell remains so afraid of his shadow that he forces a shutdown to save his own ass. And that’s assuming we don’t default.

136 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:43:33am

re: #131 Targetpractice

I think it largely depends on where the party sits after next year. A serious disaster next November might mean a much earlier schism and possibly even a major third party candidate, ala ‘92.

Well having rude jackasses like Christie, Paul and Cruz in the mix means that it will be anything nut boring.

It is going to be a joy to watch the religious right try and snuggle up to any of those clowns.

137 darthstar  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:43:56am

Mornin’ everyone…shit…actually gotta run. Early carpool with the missus.

138 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:44:12am

re: #129 ProTARDISLiberal

re: #131 Targetpractice

I think it largely depends on where the party sits after next year. A serious disaster next November might mean a much earlier schism and possibly even a major third party candidate, ala ‘92.

I don’t know if the Democratic Party would shift left in a big way; there’s plenty of centrist Democrats.

I agree that a lot of this depends on what happens in next year’s mid-terms; if the GOP experiences a disaster, then a schism will occur much sooner than 2016, and by the time that rolls around, there could well be a third-party candidate, which would effectively split the vote between the GOP and the hypothetical third party. Next year will tell the tale.

In my book, an ‘electoral disaster’ for the GOP constitutes either losing the House (unlikely owing to gerrymandering, though not impossible) or their majority being whittled down to less than 10 seats, while at the same time failing to retake the Senate, and possibly even losing seats there.

139 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:44:30am

re: #122 ProTARDISLiberal

Part of me wonders if 2016 is when the Socon wing and the Libertarian Wing divorce.

I thought those people didn’t believe in divorce.

/

140 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:45:25am

re: #136 b.d.

It is going to be a joy to watch the religious right try and snuggle up to any of those clowns.

And it will still be less awkward than Romney trying to pretend he was a religious conservative. Heh.

141 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:46:50am

re: #140 Lidane

And it will still be less awkward than Romney trying to pretend he was a religious conservative. Heh.

That was a hoot, the whole Mormonism is a cult thing was hard for them to overcome.

142 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:52:24am

re: #138 Dr Lizardo

I don’t know if the Democratic Party would shift left in a big way; there’s plenty of centrist Democrats.

I agree that a lot of this depends on what happens in next year’s mid-terms; if the GOP experiences a disaster, then a schism will occur much sooner than 2016, and by the time that rolls around, there could well be a third-party candidate, which would effectively split the vote between the GOP and the hypothetical third party. Next year will tell the tale.

In my book, an ‘electoral disaster’ for the GOP constitutes either losing the House (unlikely owing to gerrymandering, though not impossible) or their majority being whittled down to less than 10 seats, while at the same time failing to retake the Senate, and possibly even losing seats there.

Hell, even just maintaining the status quo would be a hard hit for the GOP. After three tries and three failures to take the Senate, there would likely be a lot of wingnuts screaming that “moderation” hasn’t worked and the party needs to go full retard if it really wants to have a chance.

143 mr.JA  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:55:48am

re: #93 Internet Tough Guy

lolz the US Justice System and the Russian Justice System are equivalent.

NOPE

But their policy interests are. Indeed, a Russian KGB leak would get the most vocal support from the same ones that want to bring Snowdon to justice for treason. (though he would probably have a dose of some esoteric radioactive isotope in his body pretty quickly)
It’s all national interest, which is understandable, but don’t be hypocritical about it - in this regard (which has NOTHING to do with the Justice System, but just with politics), the US and Russia are both vehemently defending their national interests…

I really like the newrepublic story about, the author makes some really good point…

144 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:56:06am

re: #142 Targetpractice

Hell, even just maintaining the status quo would be a hard hit for the GOP. After three tries and three failures to take the Senate, there would likely be a lot of wingnuts screaming that “moderation” hasn’t worked and the party needs to go full retard if it really wants to have a chance.

And of course it could go the other way too. They could hold (or possibly expand) their House edge and gerrymander their way to control of the Senate.

It would be a long final two years for Obama if that happened.

145 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 6:56:36am

re: #66 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

It’s Yoho, competing very hard with GOHMERT! Stockman, Fincher, Rand Paul, Paul Ryan,…wow there are A LOT of contenders for MOAST DERP in the GOP…

How about all those soldiers that don’t get PAID ENOUGH to feed their families and rely on food stamps? Love that “Support the Troops” GOP.

146 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:00:23am

Glennlandia still cherry picking:

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 21m

Compare: is.gd v. is.gd

147 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:00:25am

re: #142 Targetpractice

I think if the GOP maintains the status quo and fails to retake the Senate, there’ll be calls for Priebus’ head on a platter.

148 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:01:27am

re: #147 Dr Lizardo

Priebus is too much of an asshole for that to happen.

149 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:01:31am

re: #147 Dr Lizardo

I think if the GOP maintains the status quo and fails to retake the Senate, there’ll be calls for Priebus’ head on a platter.

Wasn’t that the reason they ditched Michael Steele in 2010?

150 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:04:24am

re: #149 Eclectic Cyborg

Wasn’t that the reason they ditched Michael Steele in 2010?

I believe that was chief among the reasons, despite the fact they’d taken the House.

151 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:05:11am

re: #148 Justanotherhuman

Priebus is too much of an asshole for that to happen.

Yes, but a full-scale wingnut rebellion within the GOP would be difficult for him to survive, even with his formidable assholery.

152 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:06:45am

re: #81 Vicious Babushka

My anniversary gift from Zedushka.

(OK I picked it out & ordered it & left it for him to find and give me)

Do they open up and have smaller birds inside?
:)

153 Internet Tough Guy  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:07:31am

re: #143 mr.JA

So?

154 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:07:44am

re: #152 Feline Fearless Leader

Do they open up and have smaller birds inside?
:)

That would be so cool! I have been looking for Matrioshka birds but haven’t found any.

155 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:10:30am
156 Stanley Sea  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:12:10am

re: #155 Vicious Babushka

Just found a set. :)

I like the birds you got better. Very pretty. Hope you had a wonderful anniversary.

157 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:14:44am

The historical Derp from wingnuts is getting worse:

Yeah, the longest-serving President in U.S. history sure fucked up the Great Depression and World War 2. Wait, what?

158 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:14:58am

re: #142 Targetpractice

Hell, even just maintaining the status quo would be a hard hit for the GOP. After three tries and three failures to take the Senate, there would likely be a lot of wingnuts screaming that “moderation” hasn’t worked and the party needs to go full retard if it really wants to have a chance.

And at some point the Senate elections will shift and have more GOP seats at risk than Democrat seats and threaten the balance even more.

159 Stanley Sea  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:17:01am

So just heard on the news that freedomworks is printing obamacare cards to get “the youth” to burn them like the draft cards of old. Because healthcare is like war in Vietnam something.

Some moran is going to need insurance after he burns himself.

160 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:19:20am

re: #159 Stanley Sea

So just heard on the news that freedomworks is printing obamacare cards to get “the youth” to burn them like the draft cards of old. Because healthcare is like war in Vietnam something.

Some moran is going to need insurance after he burns himself.

“The Youth” in Freedomworks terms is about 40.

161 erik_t  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:21:38am

Nothing says “government intrusion and overreach” like a rebranded-Koch emailing you a completely unofficial and metaphorical document for you to print out on your inkjet and then burn meekly in order to show your put-upon-ness.

162 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:22:10am

Inez wants to be Diana West when she grows up.

The new right-wing book of the moment is American Betrayal, by Diana West, which offers the thesis that American foreign policy under presidents Roosevelt, Truman, and Eisenhower was secretly controlled by the Soviet Union. If this sounds like the sort of tract that would be written by somebody who thinks Joe McCarthy was absolutely right about everything, well, that’s exactly what Diana West does believe. She’s also quite the birther.

163 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:25:04am

re: #159 Stanley Sea

So just heard on the news that freedomworks is printing obamacare cards to get “the youth” to burn them like the draft cards of old. Because healthcare is like war in Vietnam something.

Some moran is going to need insurance after he burns himself.

It’s just interesting to see how they keep adopting symbolic vestiges of the 60s protest movement and applying them without understanding the underpinnings of the original activity.

It’s sort of like they are trying to do some sort of “sympathetic magic” thing where if it looks like something else it then becomes the same something else. Though in this case I think the explanation is general cluelessness and not an actual attempt at wizardry.

164 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:25:07am

re: #159 Stanley Sea

So just heard on the news that freedomworks is printing obamacare cards to get “the youth” to burn them like the draft cards of old. Because healthcare is like war in Vietnam something.

Some moran is going to need insurance after he burns himself.

I’m tempted to page this, but you had the story first, so I’ll defer to you on that.

FreedomWorks is calling for a nationwide campaign to “Burn Your ObamaCare Draft Card,” a metaphor for the compulsory recruitment of Americans to participate in government-run health care.

Without forced premium payments by millions of young adults under 40, the unpopular mandated health care law can’t work. FreedomWorks will engage its community of over 6 million small-government activists to peacefully opt-out of ObamaCare, specifically targeting the Millennial generation who stands to get the worst end of the deal.

FreedomWorks President Matt Kibbe commented, “Individual resistance to the ObamaCare mandate is a natural next step following news that the Obama administration was forced by industry pressure to delay the health care law’s employer mandate. All Americans should be treated equally under the law, and the right to opt-out of a disastrous government-run health care system is no exception.”

“The health care ‘draft’ is a coercive federal strategy to ensure that enough people stay in the system, while insiders and connected friends of the White House get special exemption deals. Congress has also been quietly looking for ways to give itself special relief from the law- health care freedom for me, but not thee, I suppose.”

The secretary of Health and Human Services has statutorily exempted tens of millions of Americans from the mandate to date, and granted more than 1,200 waivers from certain ObamaCare provisions to politically connected labor unions, corporations and state governments.

“It’s not against the law to ignore the mandate or to buy coverage that doesn’t fully conform to the law’s complicated and intrusive rules. The FreedomWorks ‘Burn Your ObamaCare Card’ campaign aims to resist the draft in good conscience, without risking jail time or significant fines,” FreedomWorks Vice President of Public Policy Dean Clancy added.

The campaign will include live, online video trainings to activists on how to beat the mandate, and educational manuals outlining how to protect a person’s rights while resisting the health care draft.

165 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:26:52am

re: #157 Vicious Babushka

Even some southerners, like my great-aunt, thought FDR was their salvation, through the New Deal, and he did put a lot of starving people to work through the CCC, WPA and farm policies. She kept his photo on her wall until she died in the early 80s, along with a portrait of Blond Jesus.

166 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:30:28am

re: #165 Justanotherhuman

Even some southerners, like my great-aunt, thought FDR was their salvation, through the New Deal, and he did put a lot of starving people to work through the CCC, WPA and farm policies. She kept his photo on her wall until she died in the early 80s, along with a portrait of Blond Jesus.

An Okie of my acquaintance, an older fellow, who wasn’t exactly, shall we say, ‘Mr. Tolerance’, regarded FDR as the “’….greatest goddamn President in my lifetime, maybe even American history’” for saving the US during the Great Depression and defeating the forces of Nazism and the Japanese.

167 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:32:20am

re: #162 Vicious Babushka

Thesis is that US policy under FDR, Truman and Eisenhower was secretly controlled by the Soviets?

That’s quite the thesis.

Too bad it doesn’t stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Exhibit A of USA operating independent of the Soviet control?

George Kennan. Containment doctrine. Berlin Airlift. Marshall Plan. The Korean War. Placement of US nuclear tipped missiles in Turkey. The Space Race. Dropping nuclear weapons on Japan with eye towards keeping Soviets out of Japan theater of operations.

Oh wait, I’m already up to Exhibit H.

168 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:33:24am

re: #167 lawhawk

Thesis is that US policy under FDR, Truman and Eisenhower was secretly controlled by the Soviets?

That’s quite the thesis.

Too bad it doesn’t stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Exhibit A of USA operating independent of the Soviet control?

George Kennan. Containment doctrine. Berlin Airlift. Marshall Plan. The Korean War. Placement of US nuclear tipped missiles in Turkey. The Space Race. Dropping nuclear weapons on Japan with eye towards keeping Soviets out of Japan theater of operations.

Oh wait, I’m already up to Exhibit H.

Inez sleeps with this book under her pillow.

169 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:34:19am

re: #167 lawhawk

Thesis is that US policy under FDR, Truman and Eisenhower was secretly controlled by the Soviets?

That’s quite the thesis.

Too bad it doesn’t stand up to even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

Exhibit A of USA operating independent of the Soviet control?

George Kennan. Containment doctrine. Berlin Airlift. Marshall Plan. The Korean War. Placement of US nuclear tipped missiles in Turkey. The Space Race. Dropping nuclear weapons on Japan with eye towards keeping Soviets out of Japan theater of operations.

Oh wait, I’m already up to Exhibit H.

Historical revisionism seems to be quite in vogue these days with the wingnuts. I can’t help but wonder what’s driving it?

170 erik_t  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:35:09am

re: #163 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s sort of like they are trying to do some sort of “sympathetic magic” thing where if it looks like something else it then becomes the same something else. Though in this case I think the explanation is general cluelessness and not an actual attempt at wizardry.

The modern GOP meets the strict literal definition of a cargo cult.

171 Stanley Sea  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:35:12am

re: #163 Feline Fearless Leader

It’s just interesting to see how they keep adopting symbolic vestiges of the 60s protest movement and applying them without understanding the underpinnings of the original activity.

It’s sort of like they are trying to do some sort of “sympathetic magic” thing where if it looks like something else it then becomes the same something else. Though in this case I think the explanation is general cluelessness and not an actual attempt at wizardry.

Exactlyyyyyyyyyyy

172 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:36:39am

SHUT THE FUCK UP GLENN.
This idiot has no clue, NO CLUE about ancient Judaic law.

173 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:37:01am

re: #165 Justanotherhuman

You’re ignoring one of the single biggest drivers of improvements across the South - the TVA. That, in turn helped provide the power needed to get the Manhattan Project underway (Oak Ridge was located due to its proximity to power, just as Hanford in WA was in close proximity to the dams on the Columbia River).

174 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:38:08am

re: #173 lawhawk

You’re ignoring one of the single biggest drivers of improvements across the South - the TVA. That, in turn helped provide the power needed to get the Manhattan Project underway (Oak Ridge was located due to its proximity to power, just as Hanford in WA was in close proximity to the dams on the Columbia River).

And leading three men on a cross-country trek to recover treasure before a new dam project flooded the area.
;)

175 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:39:26am

re: #174 Feline Fearless Leader

And leading three men on a cross-country trek to recover treasure before a new dam project flooded the area.
;)

With some mighty fine pickin’ and a’singin’!

176 Mattand  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:44:09am

re: #122 ProTARDISLiberal

Part of me wonders if 2016 is when the Socon wing and the Libertarian Wing divorce.

This will not happen. There will be no Great Schism in the GOP.

Why? Because people who consider themselves independent will vote for whoever they think will fix the economy. The Tea Baggers know it’s much easier to co-opt a party than create a new one, and the “moderates” are too chicken shit to do anything about it.

And who will vote for these nitwits? The fucking idiots who voted in the current crop of GOP mouth-breathing Christian Taliban wannabes.

Why’d they do this? Because the average American was angry that Obama and the Democrats did not fix 8 years of conservative economic fuckups in less than two.

Given that idiotic mindset, you can bet your Voter ID card that if the economy gets worse, the all-knowing American “independent” voter will go with the GOP. Regardless of what religious, racist, libertarian-flavored brain fever will pass for GOP policy.

There’s absolutely no reason for the Teabaggers/ Socons/relgious right/Birchers to leave. They’re in a war of attrition with the allegedly sane Republicans, and the Tea Baggers are winning.

177 Mattand  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:48:25am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

Some Anti-Derp resources to bookmark:

Jefferson Fake Quotes.
Washington Fake Quotes.
Bogus “Pro-Gun” Quotes (this is from a “Gun Nut” site!)
Bogus Hitler Quote (from a “Gun Nut” site!)

Thanks! Clipped and saved to the desktop.

178 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:49:32am

re: #176 Mattand

This will not happen. There will be no Great Schism in the GOP.

Why? Because people who consider themselves independent will vote for whoever they think will fix the economy. The Tea Baggers know it’s much easier to co-opt a party than create a new one, and the “moderates” are too chicken shit to do anything about it.

And who will vote for these nitwits? The fucking idiots who voted in the current crop of GOP mouth-breathing Christian Taliban wannabes.

Why’d they do this? Because the average American was angry that Obama and the Democrats did not fix 8 years of conservative economic fuckups in less than two.

Given that idiotic mindset, you can bet your Voter ID card that if the economy gets worse, the all-knowing American “independent” voter will go with the GOP. Regardless of what religious, racist, libertarian-flavored brain fever will pass for GOP policy.

Plus 8+ years of “us vs them” and “our team over all” where the GOP brand is more important than thinking through any particular policy or candidate. The GOP has pounded party loyalty for years and years, and it has gotten them a solid 30% of the electorate. The moderates won’t risk that, and will simply try to moderate a little and pull in enough of the middle to win the election - which they will then get when any sort of downturn does occur.

The other reason a schism won’t occur is that the nut leaders realize that the money is too important and the established money-gathering apparatus too valuable to give up by walking away from it. Whoever “wins” the GOP name and default donors is the victor as the split-offs will wither away or slink back in a few years later.

179 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:50:14am

re: #173 lawhawk

No, just talking about NC. Even today, you can find signs of the WPA in roads, bridges, etc, along the Blue Ridge Parkway, esp. Some blocks along the stone walls lining the road are engraved with “WPA” and the year the wall was built.

Ironically, it was the AAA farm programs that elevated tobacco to new heights, consolidating many farms and driving sharecroppers, esp Blacks, out of the market. And whites jumped at the WPA jobs which paid a bit more than local wages, many times blocking Blacks from obtaining them.

180 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:53:37am
Walmart says it will ramp up safety conditions at more than 2,800 of its stores scattered across the United States, after inspectors say they found “repeat” and serious” health and safety violations at one store under investigation. The mega chain has also agreed to pay a $190,000 fine under the terms of a deal with the Labor Department’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), because of “unacceptable” safety hazards facing employees at that store.

Yeah, a $190 000 fine is really going to worry Wal-Mart and force them to change their ways. Talk about toothless.

181 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:55:06am

re: #180 Eclectic Cyborg

Yeah, a $190 000 fine is really going to worry Wal-Mart and force them to change their ways. Talk about toothless.

What is that, like a micro-second of income for them?

182 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:57:15am

These new-fangled modern times.

I was texting my daughter-in-law and I asked about her most recent ultrasound.

She texted back Great! I am having [gender redacted]!

Oops. I did not want to know that in advance, but I guess she is telling everyone.

183 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:58:23am

re: #179 Justanotherhuman

No, just talking about NC. Even today, you can find signs of the WPA in roads, bridges, etc, along the Blue Ridge Parkway, esp. Some blocks along the stone walls lining the road are engraved with “WPA” and the year the wall was built.

Ironically, it was the AAA farm programs that elevated tobacco to new heights, consolidating many farms and driving sharecroppers, esp Blacks, out of the market. And whites jumped at the WPA jobs which paid a bit more than local wages, many times blocking Blacks from obtaining them.

And a lot of WPA work still extant at various National Parks, especially in the West. Plus highway work in the Columbia Valley in Oregon as well.

It was a pretty obvious strategy to deal with the Great Depression - public works in order to increase employment and keep people busy, fed, and putting money into the economy. Standard Keynesian response to a depression as well - increase government spending as the bridge until the overall economy starts to recover. And the same strategy was carried out in countries other than the U.S. (Italy for example.)

184 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 7:58:47am
185 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:00:20am

re: #184 lawhawk

I’m shocked. Shocked, that racists are among Zimmerman’s most vocal defenders.

[Embedded content]

My surprise. Let me show you it.

186 Mattand  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:00:35am

re: #176 Mattand

I should probably qualify my constant berating of independent voters.

There’s really nothing wrong with being independent. In theory, I’m independent, in that I do honestly try to vote for whoever is best at the job.

The problem is that the GOP has clearly gone down a road that, in many ways, really does earn them the “American Taliban” sobriquet.

This is why I get frustrated with DF and the other conservatives* who keep supporting the current GOP. You don’t get to say you’re moderate and keep supporting these guys

The party is FUBAR’d, and wringing one’s hands while acknowledging the situation but still voting for them doesn’t cut it.

So there’s really nothing wrong with being independent. We should all strive for that. But when one party is going out of their way to embrace the worst traits America has, I can’t see how you can call yourself independent and support them.

*I find it interesting that when pressed, more and more conservatives either refuse to acknowledge who they support, or claim the independent mantle and keep voting GOP. I see some of that here.

187 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:03:07am

Silver Fire in CA; 0% contained. FEMA will pay 75% of eligible firefighting costs involving 1,000 fire personnel.

Silver Fire: New mandatory evacuations ordered abclocal.go.com

188 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:04:18am

re: #186 Mattand

I dislike both parties, and thus am registered as an independent. However, the dislike is not equal in that one party is in my opinion much more despicable in their chosen policies, campaigning tactics, and political behavior.

I’m in that more common than I thought area of being a social liberal and financial conservative. Thus I don’t fit the usual split used to match one to party affiliation since the two camps have polarized themselves along a different axis.

189 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:07:13am

re: #183 Feline Fearless Leader

Yes, and the Rs don’t want to touch infrastructure in this country, much of which is 50 yrs or older.

BTW, the TVA is for sale: timesfreepress.com

190 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:08:46am

re: #169 Dr Lizardo

Historical revisionism seems to be quite in vogue these days with the wingnuts. I can’t help but wonder what’s driving it?

Testing to see if they’ve done enough damage to public education that the masses will be stupid enough to believe their lies?

191 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:10:04am

re: #190 William Barnett-Lewis

Testing to see if they’ve done enough damage to public education that the masses will be stupid enough to believe their lies?

Worth pointing out that Inez is interning for Heritage on a project to defund public education.

192 Carlos Danger  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:10:08am

re: #188 Feline Fearless Leader

I’m in that more common than I thought area of being a social liberal and financial conservative. Thus I don’t fit the usual split used to match one to party affiliation since the two camps have polarized themselves along a different axis.

I think this discussion has been thrown around here before, but what is financial conservatism today? Does that make Jerry Brown a conservative?

193 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:11:16am

re: #192 Carlos Danger

I think this discussion has been thrown around here before, but what is financial conservatism today? Does that make Jerry Brown a conservative?

Financial conservatism: Fuck you, I got mine!

194 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:12:18am

re: #193 Vicious Babushka

Financial conservatism: Fuck you, I earned mine!

Compassionate conservatism would be: Fuck you, I got mine!

195 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:14:23am

re: #187 Justanotherhuman

Silver Fire in CA; 0% contained. FEMA will pay 75% of eligible firefighting costs involving 1,000 fire personnel.

Silver Fire: New mandatory evacuations ordered abclocal.go.com

?? - Google indicates that the Silver Fire is in New Mexico.

Ah. Fire in NM near Silver City referred to as “Silver Fire” as well. Appears that one is out/under control.

CA one is still going. And was the one that was putting smoke onto the east side of the Sierras when I was out there last week and making things a little hazy. No where near the conditions on the west side where the fire is located. (And I was talking about it with some fire control people who were staying at the same hotel I was in Bishop.)

196 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:15:43am

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

Compassionate conservatism would be: Fuck you, I got mine!

Ben Domenech: Conservatives should just drop this whole “Compassionate” shit.

197 BongCrodny  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:17:40am

re: #184 lawhawk

I’m shocked. Shocked, that racists are among Zimmerman’s most vocal defenders.

[Embedded content]

They’re all Democrats, you know.

Cough.

198 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:17:46am

re: #192 Carlos Danger

I think this discussion has been thrown around here before, but what is financial conservatism today? Does that make Jerry Brown a conservative?

Good question. One of those terms whose definition has been creeping in the last 20-30 years.

To me it means running governments within their budgets - and if you want to spend more you increase revenues via the normal means, generally taxes. Not “kill spending at all costs”.

I also understand the need for a social safety net - for both the benefit of individual dignity and society as a whole. And I think that education should be heavily funded since that is the key method of reducing a lot of problems and improving society in the long-term.

199 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:17:55am

re: #191 Vicious Babushka

Worth pointing out that Inez is interning for Heritage on a project to defund public education.

Charter schools are a large part of that “defunding” business. In NC (and probably most of the south), charter schools are almost always started by christianists/Rs who want the state moolah and don’t want to use their own to start private church sponsored schools. Most are basically segregation academies with a few Black kids of their choosing thrown in to make themselves look “good”. Many times charters are full of kids whose parents are would-be “homeschoolers” who don’t want to bother with it (and probably shouldn’t anyway).

200 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:19:35am

re: #192 Carlos Danger

I think this discussion has been thrown around here before, but what is financial conservatism today? Does that make Jerry Brown a conservative?

IMO as soon as someone says fiscal conservative we have set aside the partisan affiliation. I think Jerry Brown has long been a fiscal conservative. If we let the critics completely take away the word conservative and re frame it as a pejorative across the board, it makes the discussion more difficult. Hew to the official definition such as it is.

After taking office, Brown gained a reputation as a fiscal conservative.[10] The American Conservative later noted he was “much more of a fiscal conservative than Governor Reagan.”[11] His fiscal restraint resulted in one of the biggest budget surpluses in state history, roughly $5 billion.[12][13] For his personal life, Brown refused many of the privileges and perks of the office, forgoing the newly constructed governor’s residence and instead renting a modest apartment at the corner of 14th and N Streets, adjacent to Capitol Park in downtown Sacramento.[14] Instead of riding as a passenger in a chauffeured limousine as previous governors had done, Brown walked to work and drove in a Plymouth Satellite sedan.[15][16]

201 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:19:43am

re: #190 William Barnett-Lewis

Testing to see if they’ve done enough damage to public education that the masses will be stupid enough to believe their lies?

LOL

Maybe.

202 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:19:48am

re: #199 Justanotherhuman

Charter schools are a large part of that “defunding” business. In NC (and probably most of the south), charter schools are almost always started by christianists/Rs who want the state moolah and don’t want to use their own to start private church sponsored schools. Most are basically segregation academies with a few Black kids of their choosing thrown in to make themselves look “good”. Many times charters are full of kids whose parents are would-be “homeschoolers” who don’t want to bother with it (and probably shouldn’t anyway).

AND CHARTER SCHOOLS DON’T INCLUDE ANY OF THAT COMMIE CORE CURRICULUM FULL OF COMMIE STUFF LIKE MATH AND SCIENCE!!11!! WHY R U LIBRULS AGAINST CHOICE????

203 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:20:03am

Can’t wait to see Greenwald’s response:

204 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:21:24am

Pamela meltdown to commence…oh wait, she’s in a continual state of meltdown.

205 b.d.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:21:38am

re: #203 lawhawk

Can’t wait to see Greenwald’s response:

[Embedded content]

Ouch!

206 BongCrodny  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:22:55am

re: #192 Carlos Danger

I think this discussion has been thrown around here before, but what is financial conservatism today? Does that make Jerry Brown a conservative?

If I had to pigeonhole myself, I’d say I’m a tax-and-spend liberal.

But I think a good example (if not definition) of fiscal conservatism would be “not hiring a City Manager for a mid-sized city at a salary of $500,000 per year.”

207 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:23:27am

re: #105 Eclectic Cyborg

I’ve spent too much time in middle and high schools as a parent and volunteer to have any hope that Bible verses on clothing is going to open up discussions about compassion or being more Christlike. There’s already seminars and “zero tolerance” of bullying rules in the schools where I am(suburban Atlanta), the kids roll their eyes at the seminars and the bullying is not any better. As for their zero tolerance rules, those aren’t applied to everyone equally. Kids aren’t stupid, they know this. The popular kids btw, the ones “with everything going for them”(aka “the Good Kids”) are quite often the worst of the worst bullies and they are quite adept at hiding what they do from any adults in the vicinity.

I hate to be cynical, but I think it’s bullshit, it’s simply a marketing ploy to sell clothes that look like any other line of clothing at the mall. At the very least Miss Model is incredibly naive about what goes on in American high and middle schools.

208 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:25:08am

re: #204 Vicious Babushka

And just in case they think that the President is breaking new ground, here’s what President Bush had to say on Eid over the years, including in 2009.

209 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:25:33am

re: #207 A Mom Anon

I hate to be cynical, but I think it’s bullshit, it’s simply a marketing ploy to sell clothes that look like any other line of clothing at the mall. At the very least Miss Model is incredibly naive about what goes on in American high and middle schools.

Since Ms. Model was a model, meaning perfect hair and tall thin body type, she was probably one of the “Mean Girls.”

210 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:25:47am

Of course, pursuing education, social safety nets, etc. also leaves some thorny issues to deal with.

For instance, how does one handle the still apparent need for a hand-laboring, relatively poorly paid, underclass for agricultural work?

(Brought home to me a bit by driving down a few California highways among groves of oranges, almonds, pistachios, grapes, etc. and seeing the pickers out there working.)

211 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:26:53am
212 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:27:32am
213 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:28:14am

re: #203 lawhawk

Can’t wait to see Greenwald’s response:

[Embedded content]

The Guardian is getting worse and worse.

214 geoffm33  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:28:29am

re: #208 lawhawk

“Muslims often invite members of other families to their evening iftar meals, demonstrating a spirit of tolerance.”
Remarks by the President* on Eid Al-Fitr

The President is a sekrit mooslim!!!

* President Bush

215 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:30:16am

re: #214 geoffm33

The President is a sekrit mooslim!!!

* President Bush

Clinton was the first President to hold an Iftar in the White House.

216 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:30:58am
217 Carlos Diggler  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:32:13am

re: #193 Vicious Babushka

Financial conservatism: Fuck you, I got mine!

Here, eat some bootstraps. Gorge yourself on that chewy chewy chewy leathery goodness.

218 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:33:56am

re: #216 Vicious Babushka

Hmm, I can see one of my cats from here at work.

Seriously. My desk was shifted and if I go over to the windows I can see the windows of my apartment from here. Black splotch against the white blinds is one of them overseeing from the window sill.

:)

219 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:35:13am

Monthly sales result conference call. Blah. I had a slow July. In my defense, most of my time was occupied with a multi-million dollar RFP.

220 piratedan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:35:42am

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

Compassionate conservatism would be: Fuck you, I got mine!

whereas contemporary Conservatism would be “Fuck you! I want yours too!”

221 Ian G.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:36:06am

re: #203 lawhawk

Can’t wait to see Greenwald’s response:

[Embedded content]

Obviously, Obama got to him.////

222 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:37:47am

re: #221 Ian G.

Obviously, Obama got to him.////

I await Greenwald using the A-Rod suspension as another parallel since that is also in the news and he hasn’t reached there yet.
:p

///

223 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:39:04am
224 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:39:37am

The only way I can not throw up every time I see this wingnut Derp meme, is to imagine asking this question to the Waltons.

225 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:40:51am

re: #200 Political Atheist

I think ‘fiscal conservative’ is a dumb phrase because it implies a simple axis. I’m in favor of single payer health care because I’m a fiscal conservative. I’m in favor of a guaranteed minimum income because I’m a fiscal conservative. Yet most would say those are opposed to fiscal conservatism.

At it’s heart, fiscal conservative seems to just mean ‘only spend money on good things’, so who the hell isn’t?

226 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:41:19am

re: #209 Vicious Babushka

Hubby is a scam artist—he worked with her father, a professional poker dealer and that’s how she met him back in 2009. Youtube Video

227 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:42:22am

re: #182 Vicious Babushka

These new-fangled modern times.

I was texting my daughter-in-law and I asked about her most recent ultrasound.

She texted back Great! I am having [gender redacted]!

Oops. I did not want to know that in advance, but I guess she is telling everyone.

My DiL and son are having a boy in early December. Only my 4th grandchild so far, have a ways to go to catch up to you :-)

228 Mattand  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:43:46am

re: #224 Vicious Babushka

The only way I can not throw up every time I see this wingnut Derp meme, is to imagine asking this question to the Waltons.

[Embedded content]

Maybe I’m being cynical, but every time I see a conservative quote a black person who is supposedly championing conservatism, I immediately think “Out of context.”

229 andres  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:43:52am

re: #194 Eclectic Cyborg

Compassionate conservatism would be: Fuck you, I got mine!

I think it would be: “Would you please fornicate yourself? I already have mine, thank you.”

230 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:44:13am

re: #225 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It is an imperfect phrase, at least in part via misuse. And in part it evolved over time like so many phrases in our language.
What phrase might you prefer, for instance to describe a guy like Gov Brown? I don’t think Wiki has it wrong to describe him that way, and their entry on fiscal conservatism seems reasonable to me.

231 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:45:02am

re: #228 Mattand

Maybe I’m being cynical, but every time I see a conservative quote a black person who is supposedly championing conservatism, I immediately think “Out of context.”

Tom Sowell has been making a sweet living as a RENT-A-BLAH-TO-PROVE-UR-NOT-RACIST for years and years.

232 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:45:03am

re: #216 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

233 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:45:38am

re: #211 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

People who have been unemployed that long are what conservatives refer to as “people who are too picky about what job they take.”

234 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:46:23am

Bryan Fischer to start Derping TEH PERSECUTION OF TEH CHRIST WORSHIPPERZ IZ BEGUN!!11!!

235 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:47:32am
236 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:48:32am

Paged.

237 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:48:41am

re: #234 Vicious Babushka

Bryan Fischer to start Derping TEH PERSECUTION OF TEH CHRIST WORSHIPPERZ IZ BEGUN!!11!!

[Embedded content]

They may be in violation of state law, but the worst thing to do would be arrest them because that’s exactly what the “persecutionists” want.

238 Lidane  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:49:20am

re: #225 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think ‘fiscal conservative’ is a dumb phrase because it implies a simple axis. I’m in favor of single payer health care because I’m a fiscal conservative. I’m in favor of a guaranteed minimum income because I’m a fiscal conservative. Yet most would say those are opposed to fiscal conservatism.

That’s because conservatism in general has been hijacked and redefined by the Axis of Stupid of AM talk radio, Faux News, and the RWNJ blogosphere.

As long as that’s true, we can’t have a serious discussion on what fiscal conservatism is. Once you start talking about it, the usual derptards show up and flap their faceholes about ZOMG SOSHULISM and the evils of the IRS, Obamacare, and TYRANNY.

239 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:49:40am
240 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:50:36am

re: #238 Lidane

That’s because conservatism in general has been hijacked and redefined by the Axis of Stupid of AM talk radio, Faux News, and the RWNJ blogosphere.

As long as that’s true, we can’t have a serious discussion on what fiscal conservatism is. Once you start talking about it, the usual derptards show up and flap their faceholes about ZOMG SOSHULISM and the evils of the IRS, Obamacare, and TYRANNY.

I personally differentiate between “Republican”, “Conservative”, “Patriot” and “Traditional Conservative”

241 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:52:15am

re: #230 Political Atheist

It is an imperfect phrase, at least in part via misuse. And in part it evolved over time like so many phrases in our language.
What phrase might you prefer, for instance to describe a guy like Gov Brown? I don’t think Wiki has it wrong to describe him that way, and their entry on fiscal conservatism seems reasonable to me.

Reasonably pragmatic. He restored a lot of social services affecting the poor, which is great. He showed that you don’t have to cut aid to the poor in order to say you’ve cut spending.

In prisons, I’d describe Jerry Brown as “a fucking disgrace”, in the same way I would describe the majority of Californian politicians.

242 piratedan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:52:42am

re: #240 Eclectic Cyborg

I dunno, all of those labels can pretty much be handled under the greater tag of “those assholes”

243 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:53:31am
244 Ian G.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:55:36am

re: #224 Vicious Babushka

The only way I can not throw up every time I see this wingnut Derp meme, is to imagine asking this question to the Waltons.

[Embedded content]

Or the Koch brothers, or Donald Trump, or (in the political influencer field) Bill Kristol and Jonah Goldberg….

245 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:56:10am

re: #242 piratedan

I dunno, all of those labels can pretty much be handled under the greater tag of “those assholes”

Well than how do you refer to someone who considers themselves conservative but strongly dislikes the TPers and current GOP?

246 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:57:20am

OT: I’m still on my Titanic kick.

I finally got around to watching “Ghosts of the Abyss” a little bit ago. Excellent film, I only wish it were longer.

A real high point of it for me was this amazing cover of the Youngbloods “Darkness, Darkness” that featured in the film. Truly great music:

Youtube Video

247 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:58:52am

re: #243 Vicious Babushka

Richard Dawkins goes all Pat Condell.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY PACIFIC ISLANDERS HAVE WON THE NOBEL!!!

248 Ian G.  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:59:23am

re: #243 Vicious Babushka

Richard Dawkins goes all Pat Condell.

Yeah, he stepped over the line there. As an atheist, I always try to make a distinction of criticism of religious dogma and criticism of believers (I wouldn’t have gotten very far in my relationship with my Catholic fiancee if I hadn’t).

So Richard, those boys in rural Pakistan who get sent to Madrassas where they learn nothing of scientific value, um, how are they supposed to win Nobel Prizes? You sound like the Galtian buffoons who wonder why kids born and raised in inner-city Detroit can’t make it big like Mark Zuckerberg.

249 piratedan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 8:59:26am

re: #245 Eclectic Cyborg

Well than how do you refer to someone who considers themselves conservative but strongly dislikes the TPers and current GOP?

usually I would consider them a coward, because who do they end up voting for? and I don’t say this lightly, look at the numbers of the last election and all of those people that knowingly voted for that fucking dumpster fire of a candidate named Mitt Romney. How else do you explain the existence of a Rand Paul and a Ted Cruz? It’s because these folks that supposedly are critical of these whackjobs go out and vote for them anyfuckingway because they can’t bring themselves to vote for someone who isn’t fucking insane because they have a D in parenthesis beside their name on a ballot.

250 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:00:16am

re: #248 Ian G.

Yeah, he stepped over the line there. As an atheist, I always try to make a distinction of criticism of religious dogma and criticism of believers (I wouldn’t have gotten very far in my relationship with my Catholic fiancee if I hadn’t).

So Richard, those boys in rural Pakistan who get sent to Madrassas where they learn nothing of scientific value, um, how are they supposed to win Nobel Prizes? You sound like the Galtian buffoons who wonder why kids born and raised in inner-city Detroit can’t make it big like Mark Zuckerberg.

I was going to page that but I thought that someone who is an atheist should be the one to page it.

251 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:00:43am

re: #249 piratedan

usually I would consider them a coward, because who do they end up voting for? and I don’t say this lightly, look at the numbers of the last election and all of those people that knowing voted for that fucking dumpster fire of a candidate named Mitt Romney. How else do you explain the existence of a Rand Paul and a Ted Cruz? It’s because these folks that supposedly are critical of these whackjobs go out and vote for them anyfuckingway because they can’t bring themselves to vote for someone who isn’t fucking insane because they have a D in parenthesis beside their name on a ballot.

Wow. I hadn’t thought about it that way but you bring up a good point.

252 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:00:59am

Meanwhile…


RT if you can.

253 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:01:16am
254 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:01:59am
255 erik_t  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:03:46am

re: #253 Gus

Words and legal constructs: how do they work?

256 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:05:04am

re: #254 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

I’m really curious where that pic came from.

257 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:05:21am

re: #253 Gus

Someone’s pounding on the table again….

Russia could have simply booted Snowden back to US. Or, kicked him on to another country that was willing to take him in. Or done nothing and let Snowden sit in-transit.

258 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:07:44am

re: #257 lawhawk

Someone’s pounding on the table again….

Russia could have simply booted Snowden back to US. Or, kicked him on to another country that was willing to take him in. Or done nothing and let Snowden sit in-transit.

259 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:07:51am
260 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:09:16am

re: #256 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m really curious where that pic came from.

The movie Role Models.

261 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:10:33am
262 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:11:07am

re: #258 Gus

[Embedded content]

‘Let me link to my foundation so it looks very authoritative.’

263 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:11:10am

Teh Derp continues:

JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST INEZ GEORGE FITZHUGH IS NOT IN ANY LIBERALS “INTELLECTUAL CLOSET.” STOP THIS SHIT.

264 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:12:56am

re: #263 Vicious Babushka

Teh Derp continues SPAWNS AND MUTATES:

[Embedded content]

JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST INEZ GEORGE FITZHUGH IS NOT IN ANY LIBERALS “INTELLECTUAL CLOSET.” STOP THIS SHIT.

FTFY

265 erik_t  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:13:03am

re: #261 NJDhockeyfan

Cryptome appears to be rather like Wikileaks in mission and role, so some of you should not visit their website carelessly.

This is a wikipedia link.

266 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:13:33am


267 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:14:39am

re: #262 wrenchwench

‘Let me link to my foundation so it looks very authoritative.’

And it still doesn’t call for extradition. It’s rather vague in that regard. The editorial that is.

268 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:14:41am

BECAUSE, YOU NARCISSISTIC LITTLE SHIT, WE OFFERED YOU A CRITIQUE AND YOU SAID TO SHOVE IT.

269 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:20:20am

re: #268 Vicious Babushka

BECAUSE, YOU NARCISSISTIC LITTLE SHIT, WE OFFERED YOU A CRITIQUE AND YOU SAID TO SHOVE IT.

[Embedded content]

Probably time to give up on Inez. You’re arguing with a roadside billboard.

270 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:21:31am

re: #269 Decatur Deb

Burma Shave!

271 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:22:43am

re: #269 Decatur Deb

Probably time to give up on Inez. You’re arguing with a roadside billboard.

This is the wingnut Face of Derp. Ignore it at your peril, this Derp is going out on Rush & Fox.

272 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:23:45am

re: #271 Vicious Babushka

This is the wingnut Face of Derp. Ignore it at your peril, this Derp is going out on Rush & Fox.

Yup. But my wife gets testy when I yell at the TV, too.

273 piratedan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:24:09am

re: #271 Vicious Babushka

if we don’t fight the DERP, who will?

I would simply report the vote for the CRA in regards to regional breakdown and then have INEZ get back to you regarding what party actually supports what programs.

274 piratedan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:27:13am

re: #273 piratedan

because it’s readily apparent that Inez doesn’t want to face history….for some reason it’s an anathema for them to admit any failing of the GOP in any capacity, they’ve always been on the side of the angels, forever. They would rather revise history rather than attempt to learn from it. Very Godwin of them.

275 Gus  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:27:45am

re: #262 wrenchwench

‘Let me link to my foundation so it looks very authoritative.’

pressfreedomfoundation.org

276 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:28:07am

re: #273 piratedan

if we don’t fight the DERP, who will?

I would simply report the vote for the CRA in regards to regional breakdown and then have INEZ get back to you regarding what party actually supports what programs.

Her latest Derp concerns an obscure 19th-century pro-slavery tract, Cannibals All! which she claims (with no proof) that it was a model for modern progressive (i.e. DEMOCRAT LIBRULZ)

Utter breathtaking bullshit BUT IT HAZ REAL QUOTES NOT TEH FAKE QUOTES UR ALWAYS YELLING ABOUT. A real Fool’s Goldmine of Quotes.

277 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:29:08am

re: #274 piratedan

because it’s readily apparent that Inez doesn’t want to face history….for some reason it’s an anathema for them to admit any failing of the GOP in any capacity, they’ve always been on the side of the angels, forever. They would rather revise history rather than attempt to learn from it. Very Godwin of them.

Inez is a paid part of the RW advertising machine. She is not going to knock the sponsor’s product.

278 piratedan  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:30:39am

re: #277 Decatur Deb

so all we can do is pull her product from the shelves then? :-)

279 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:31:49am

re: #278 piratedan

so all we can do is pull her product from the shelves then? :-)

VB is trying to tape a Surgeon General’s warning to each package.

280 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:35:05am

re: #268 Vicious Babushka

BECAUSE, YOU NARCISSISTIC LITTLE SHIT, WE OFFERED YOU A CRITIQUE AND YOU SAID TO SHOVE IT.

[Embedded content]

Were I on twitter the only thing I’d say to her is that her parents failed at teaching her right from wrong.

Wonder if she was homeschooled? It would explain much about the intellectual black hole of her thinking.

281 geoffm33  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:39:10am

re: #268 Vicious Babushka

BECAUSE, YOU NARCISSISTIC LITTLE SHIT, WE OFFERED YOU A CRITIQUE AND YOU SAID TO SHOVE IT.

[Embedded content]

Don’t forget your unanswered last word:

282 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:39:36am

re: #280 William Barnett-Lewis

Were I on twitter the only thing I’d say to her is that her parents failed at teaching her right from wrong.

Wonder if she was homeschooled? It would explain much about the intellectual black hole of her thinking.

She was College Republican National Committee at her school—that’s a sort of homeschooling for libertarians. The 2008 “Backwards B” girl was one of their valedictorians.

283 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:51:22am

re: #217 Carlos Diggler

Here, eat some bootstraps. Gorge yourself on that chewy chewy chewy leathery goodness.

Some mornings it just isn’t worth chewing through the leather restraints to get out of bed.

284 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 9:56:23am

re: #274 piratedan

because it’s readily apparent that Inez doesn’t want to face history….for some reason it’s an anathema for them to admit any failing of the GOP in any capacity, they’ve always been on the side of the angels, forever. They would rather revise history rather than attempt to learn from it. Very Godwin of them.

It’s the same format as Bible defense. Once they accept that even one part of it is not literally and fundamentally true beyond doubt the rest of the ediface, and thus their complete world view, is open to question.

And it’s also the basis of their attacks - once they get you to admit that someone, or a document, on your side is wrong or contains errors than *all* of the people and documents on your side are wrong and in error.

It’s silly, hidebound, unscientific, and essentially self-destructive in the long-term, but they cling to it like a barnacle.

285 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 10:06:04am

re: #247 Gus

I WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY PACIFIC ISLANDERS HAVE WON THE NOBEL!!!

When the first Islander wins one, it will put them far ahead of China, per capita. Just like Trinidad and Tobago. Math is hard, even for atheists.

(What the hell was his point, anyway?)

286 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 11:59:28am

re: #241 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Reasonably pragmatic.

Okay that feels understated to me in Gov browns case, as his personal item spending habits were so very frugal.

However, I think “fiscal conservative” as explained by Wiki and others is legit for use in discussions out and about, as well as right here. For one thing it’s a bad idea to let the worst most extreme examples define the type and force the language the shift to invent some new term for the moderate types. Letting the worst examples define the term would also be unfair unless one went by the same rules for the other side. What seems to happen here is a specific anti Republican redefinition for the purpose of dismissal, right out of hand. A great example was VB above “FU I got Mine”.
Thing is you do that and you have a huge problem as soon as you find a “fiscal conservative” Democrat. I doubt Jerry Brown is the only one. Nope a quick Google got me this link.

Disagree as you might, but when I use the phrase, you know how I mean it.

287 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 12:20:15pm

re: #286 Political Atheist

Okay that feels understated to me in Gov browns case, as his personal item spending habits were so very frugal.

I don’t know what you mean when you say his personal item spending habits.

However, I think “fiscal conservative” as explained by Wiki and others is legit for use in discussions out and about, as well as right here. For one thing it’s a bad idea to let the worst most extreme examples define the type and force the language the shift to invent some new term for the moderate types. Letting the worst examples define the term would also be unfair unless one went by the same rules for the other side. What seems to happen here is a specific anti Republican redefinition for the purpose of dismissal, right out of hand. A great example was VB above “FU I got Mine”.
Thing is you do that and you have a huge problem as soon as you find a “fiscal conservative” Democrat. I doubt Jerry Brown is the only one. Nope a quick Google got me this link.

Disagree as you might, but when I use the phrase, you know how I mean it.

No, I don’t actually know how you mean it. Am I a fiscal conservative? I firmly think that the cheapest way for us to do health insurance in this country is single-payer, and we’re effectively subsidizing indigent health care by paying higher insurance rates and subsidizing hospitals. With just pure consideration of economy, of being fiscally responsible, single payer is the way to go.

For some reason, a lot of people would say that’s somehow not fiscally conservative.

288 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 12:39:02pm

re: #287 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I don’t know what you mean when you say his personal item spending habits.

I refer to his frugal habits as governor as the Wiki shows-Declined official car, residence etc.

No, I don’t actually know how you mean it

Just look at the Wiki, or a similar explanation of the general use of the term.

289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 12:41:58pm

re: #288 Political Atheist

I’ve looked at it, and I think it’s a broad, vague, and incoherent term as defined in that Wiki.

Again:

No, I don’t actually know how you mean it. Am I a fiscal conservative? I firmly think that the cheapest way for us to do health insurance in this country is single-payer, and we’re effectively subsidizing indigent health care by paying higher insurance rates and subsidizing hospitals. With just pure consideration of economy, of being fiscally responsible, single payer is the way to go.

Am I a fiscal conservative?

290 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 1:22:06pm

re: #289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
I don’t know if you are or are not.
This not not such a bad guide to the meaning, I’m a little puzzled that this is not clear enough.

Fiscal conservatism is a politicoeconomic philosophy with regards towards fiscal policy and the advocating of fiscal responsibility. Fiscal conservatives advocate and often consider avoiding deficit spending and the reduction of overall government spending and national debt as well as ensuring balanced budget of paramount importance. Fiscal conservatives would also support pay-as-you-go financial policies

Edit-Additional

Fiscal conservatism is the economic philosophy of prudence in government spending and debt.

291 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 1:54:28pm

re: #290 Political Atheist

Fiscal conservatism is a politicoeconomic philosophy with regards towards fiscal policy and the advocating of fiscal responsibility. Fiscal conservatives advocate and often consider avoiding deficit spending and the reduction of overall government spending and national debt as well as ensuring balanced budget of paramount importance. Fiscal conservatives would also support pay-as-you-go financial policies

They ‘often’ consider avoiding deficiet spending? Fiscal conservatives always want to reduce government spending? What about the times when we, you know, need more government spending? Or are we talking about from current levels? Then is someone who wants to cut the military by 75% while slightly expanding social programs a fiscal conservative?

Balanced budgets are basically always fictions, and straining to meet their technical definition usually just winds up with pathetic shenanigans. There are plenty of people who are otherwise very much for restraint in spending who think so— are they out of the club? Is this an inclusive or exclusive definition?

I don’t know if you are or are not.

To go back to this: I’m for deficit spending when we need to. Like to combat AGW, we should be spending the fuck out of next-gen energy research, adaptation research, outreach, it is a gigantic national, international crisis and we should be balls-to-the-wall leading, and with tons and tons of money going to science and applied engineering to get us, and the world, sustainable and green. The nice part about this is that it’ll be a huge economic boost too, so that’s cool.

We keep acting as though economics is taking part in some sort of stable system. It’s not. There’s no point in getting our economy nice and balanced when AGW is going to devastate us. We are so goddamn unprepared it’s sad.

So does the fact I think that we need to aggressively combat AGW, and that that will take a lot of government leadership and communal money to address, does that knock me out of fiscal conservatism?

292 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 2:27:38pm

re: #291 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I do not know how to put it any clearer.

Definitions
fiscal conservative
noun

One who favors a balanced budget, preferring spending cuts or tax increases to borrowing.

How this will work in terms of single payer or AGW would be speculative. Pay as you go is a fiscal conservative concept that may or may not be adhered to in these issues. I’d like to think a way could be found. But like a major war that might not be possible.

In any case you now have my best effort to explain to you my use and what I consider the generally accepted use of the term. I think most readers will understand me just fine when i use the term, and sometimes object to its pejorative redefinition like some above.

293 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 2:35:47pm

re: #292 Political Atheist

You’re not really addressing the points I’m raising— it now seems like you’re solely defining a fiscal conservative as someone opposed to deficit spending in general.

One who favors a balanced budget, preferring spending cuts or tax increases to borrowing.

Favors, but when doesn’t this putative guy favor it? When is borrowing okay to a fiscal conservative?

How this will work in terms of single payer or AGW would be speculative. Pay as you go is a fiscal conservative concept that may or may not be adhered to in these issues. I’d like to think a way could be found. But like a major war that might not be possible.

Okay, so what are we left with? If we say that we may, like for a major war, deficit spend, and since that’s the only attribute a fiscal conservative has is preferring not to borrow, are the fiscal conservatives just the ones who’ll really regret the deficit spending we’ll do to combat AGW?

If the only criteria is ‘prefers not to do deficit spending’, then that’s really not a very high bar, and tons of people will be ‘fiscal conservatives’. I ‘prefer’ not to, but I think that there’s a ton of cases— including recessions— when we should.

294 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 2:48:15pm

re: #293 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I understand your objections to the term, but the issue above was really about whether you comprehended my use of the term the way I meant it. So I laid that out as best I can. I get that we disagree about the utility of the term. As these things go pretty small stuff.

I consider deficit spending to be a last or near last resort. Quite often it is played up as a routine matter, so best to cover up the poor management that made it necessary. Overoptimistic revenue forecasts to support pork. Of course natural disasters and wars and other major things that come as surprises or from out of a governments control are important exceptions. It way too easy to hide bad policy in deficit spending when presented as routine SOP.

295 Political Atheist  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 2:49:19pm

Nobody else chiming in? A near dead thread then.

296 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Aug 8, 2013 3:22:30pm

re: #294 Political Atheist

I understand your objections to the term, but the issue above was really about whether you comprehended my use of the term the way I meant it. So I laid that out as best I can. I get that we disagree about the utility of the term. As these things go pretty small stuff.

The way I understand you to mean it is fiscal conservatives are against deficiet spending except when the consider it necessary. Which is not really useful.

I consider deficit spending to be a last or near last resort. Quite often it is played up as a routine matter, so best to cover up the poor management that made it necessary. Overoptimistic revenue forecasts to support pork. Of course natural disasters and wars and other major things that come as surprises or from out of a governments control are important exceptions. It way too easy to hide bad policy in deficit spending when presented as routine SOP.

Do you think the government should increase spending in a recession?


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