Feinstein: No Evidence of Intentional NSA Abuse of Authority

The Washington Post’s leaked document supports Feinstein
US News • Views: 20,232

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has released the following Statement on NSA Compliance, in response to the Washington Post’s leaked internal NSA audit.

“By law, the Intelligence Committee receives roughly a dozen reports every year on FISA activities, which include information about compliance issues. Some of these reports provide independent analysis by the offices of the inspectors general in the intelligence community. The committee does not receive the same number of official reports on other NSA surveillance activities directed abroad that are conducted pursuant to legal authorities outside of FISA (specifically Executive Order 12333), but I intend to add to the committee’s focus on those activities.

“The committee has been notified—and has held briefings and hearings—in cases where there have been significant FISA compliance issues. In all such cases, the incidents have been addressed by ending or adapting the activity.

The large majority of NSA’s so-called ‘compliance incidents’ are called ‘roaming’ incidents, in which the NSA is collecting the phone or electronic communications of a non-American outside the United States, and that person then enters the United States. The NSA generally won’t know that the person has traveled to the United States. As the laws and rules governing NSA surveillance require different procedures once someone enters the U.S.—generally to require a specific FISA court order—NSA will cite this as a ‘compliance incident,’ and either cease the surveillance or obtain the required FISA court order. The majority of these ‘compliance incidents’ are, therefore, unintentional and do not involve any inappropriate surveillance of Americans.

As I have said previously, the committee has never identified an instance in which the NSA has intentionally abused its authority to conduct surveillance for inappropriate purposes.

“I believe, however, that the committee can and should do more to independently verify that NSA’s operations are appropriate, and its reports of compliance incidents are accurate. This should include more routine trips to NSA by committee staff and committee hearings at which all compliance issues can be fully discussed.”

The document leaked by Edward Snowden and published by the Washington Post’s Barton Gellman supports this claim; read it for yourself below. I’ve gone through it twice now, and there’s no evidence in here of deliberate malicious activity on the NSA’s part, or on any NSA analyst’s part.

As Feinstein said, most of the incidents reported are “roaming” incidents. The second most likely cause of an incident report is human error when entering database queries. (Typos, anyone?)

There are other causes listed — mostly errors of one kind or another — and some cases in which information was inappropriately collected and/or stored, but not a single case in which any person is implicated in intentional abuse.

And another interesting note in the document: there are comprehensive automatic reporting systems in place, that caught the majority of these incidents.

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128 comments

1 Lidane  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:14:05pm

Dudebro cries of “FALSE FLAG! TYRANNY! LIES!” in 3…2…1…

2 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:18:54pm
“The large majority of NSA’s so-called ‘compliance incidents’ are called ‘roaming’ incidents, in which the NSA is collecting the phone or electronic communications of a non-American outside the United States, and that person then enters the United States. The NSA generally won’t know that the person has traveled to the United States. As the laws and rules governing NSA surveillance require different procedures once someone enters the U.S.—generally to require a specific FISA court order—NSA will cite this as a ‘compliance incident,’ and either cease the surveillance or obtain the required FISA court order. The majority of these ‘compliance incidents’ are, therefore, unintentional and do not involve any inappropriate surveillance of Americans.

JAIL no BAIL!!! Have we no prisons for these compliance breakers??!!!!11111eleventy

/

3 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:19:30pm

Yeah, but we know how it goes at this point, Charles. No matter how many times they’re told there’s no evidence of abuse, they’ll whine that the “potential” is all that matters and we should live in constant fear that the NSA is monitoring us unless we shut it down.

4 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:19:47pm

The antis will scream “neocon!” and miss her final point:

“I believe, however, that the committee can and should do more to independently verify that NSA’s operations are appropriate, and its reports of compliance incidents are accurate. This should include more routine trips to NSA by committee staff and committee hearings at which all compliance issues can be fully discussed.”

5 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:20:12pm

Lies! Lies! The great and powerful Snowden knows the truth!

6 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:23:20pm


Can’t they just call her number and see if one of the phones ring?

7 Creepy Totalitarianist  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:24:18pm

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]


Can’t they just call her number and see if one of the phones ring?

I suspect they’re interested in a lot more than just who owned the phone.

8 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:27:27pm

re: #7 b_sharp

I suspect they’re interested in a lot more than just who owned the phone.

I guess. They could be looking to see if they belong to other missing people. Alexis Murphy’s phone should be obvious though.

9 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:28:14pm

re: #7 b_sharp

I suspect they’re interested in a lot more than just who owned the phone.

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

They’ll want data from those phones, so it makes sense to send them to Quantico. The FBI will want to know who those phones belonged to and possibly match them up to missing persons in the local and regional area.

10 simoom  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:33:38pm

@Charles:

Also, the first paragraph of Fienstein’s statement knocks WaPo’s reporting:

While today’s Washington Post stated that Feinstein did not receive a copy of the 2012 audit cited by the paper until The Post asked about it, Feinstein’s full statement provided on Thursday to the paper made clear the committee receives the FISA compliance information in a more official format rather than as an internal NSA statistical report.

She’s essentially saying they cherry-picked her statement to them when they implied she hadn’t previously been briefed on the data.

11 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:35:30pm

This was the Washington Post headline for their article: “NSA Broke Privacy Rules Thousands of Times Per Year, Audit Finds.”

Man, that seems very close to being deliberately misleading, and certainly does not reflect the real findings of the report at all.

12 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:40:16pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

This was the Washington Post headline for their article: “NSA Broke Privacy Rules Thousands of Times Per Year, Audit Finds.”

Man, that seems very close to being deliberately misleading, and certainly does not reflect the real findings of the report at all.

But it grabs attention and will sell papers/inspire clicks, which is all that matters to them. This is the media in the 21st century, full of flash and little substance. It’s selling a product, not reporting the news.

13 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:42:29pm
14 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:42:59pm
15 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:43:20pm
16 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:44:15pm

Glenn Greenwald retweeted:

17 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:44:42pm

About Lavabit, by the way:

While most of the speculation has been about the claims that Ed Snowden has used a Lavabit email address, a reader points out to us that the government took an interest in Lavabit a few months before the whole Snowden affair started, issuing a search warrant concerning a Lavabit email account, Joey006-at-lavabit.com, back in March of this year, to be executed by April 11. From the affidavit supplied with the warrant, this involved an FBI investigation into child porn.

18 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:47:27pm

re: #15 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Repeating myself. This meme is arrant bullshit. Area 51’s employee complaints of mishandling aviation hazmat were public knowledge at least 15 years ago.

19 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:48:01pm

re: #15 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Because Area 51 wasn’t that important to know about in the first place. So if he’s going back 70 years he thinks we should have been more transparent during WWII?

20 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:48:09pm

re: #18 Decatur Deb

Repeating myself. This meme is arrant bullshit. Area 51’s employee complaints of mishandling aviation hazmat was public knowledge at least 15 years ago.

I think this is declassification of a specific program there.

21 urbanmeemaw  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:48:44pm

re: #3 Targetpractice

Well, we all know young privileged white guys are the only real victims.

22 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:48:59pm
23 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:49:02pm

re: #20 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think this is declassification of a specific program there.

Not what he said:

The US govt is so committed to transparency that a mere 70 yrs later, it is admitting Area 51 exists:

24 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:51:40pm

Also. Area 51 begins in 1955 so 58 years.

25 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:52:55pm

re: #24 Gus

Also. Area 51 begins in 1955 so 58 years.

What’s a fact among “reporters”?

26 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:55:17pm
27 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:58:02pm

re: #22 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Indeed, why does the media grant good faith to Edward Snowden when he’s already been caught in several lies?

28 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:58:49pm

now if we could only get area 51 and the NSA in the same story so that we have aliens reading our emails and submitting the results of secret anal probes of all americans to sophisticated mass data processing techniques

then you’d have something

29 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 2:59:13pm

Called to home-grown pears in Amaretto. BBL

30 Kragar  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:00:50pm

“The lack of evidence IS the evidence!”

- The GG

31 Jack Burton  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:01:29pm

re: #15 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

More evidence that these people are anarchists who think that governments shouldn’t have any secrets at all.

32 Kragar  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:03:33pm

Klingenschmitt: Obama Creating Atheist Military to Attack Christians

The “atheist left,” Klingenschmitt claims, wants to “get rid of all the Christians in the military so they can take over. Now we see the Obama administration is stockpiling armored personnel carriers, and the Department of Homeland Security [has] billions of rounds of ammunition; who are they going to use that against? If there’s no Christians serving in the government, eventually that is all going to be turned against us.”

“Don’t think that can’t happen,” he cautioned, telling Christians to expect increasing “persecution.”

Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams Tells ‘Persecuted’ Western Christians to Grow Up

33 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:06:15pm

What bothers me so much about all of this is the deep distrust people harbor in this govt which allows them to believe this engineered “outrage” at something perfectly legal in a perfectly legal agency which has Congressional oversight. While I’m not naive enough to believe we can trust every single govt official, elected or otherwise, what we have is the single-most effective form of govt in the world—one which many want to emulate in some form, a representative govt. What else is there but pie-in-the-sky idealism which has been tried and not proved worthy?

Instead, what we have is the theft, by a 20-something immature, idealistic hacker, over a period of years, of sensitive top secret documents, affecting not just this country, but others, and which are no doubt being studied by China and Russia and which could be sold or traded to countries unfriendly to the US.

And people are celebrating this guy?

34 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:07:19pm

get rid of all the Christians in the military

that would be quite a trick

i would estimate current percentage of christians in the u.s. military to be somewhere upwards of 98%

unless you’re like some people i’ve met who consider episcopalians to be godless atheists

35 Jack Burton  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:08:44pm

re: #34 engineer cat

unless you’re like some people i’ve met who consider episcopalians to be godless atheists

They will be in heaven but separated from us by barbed wire fences and vicious guard dogs.

36 Kragar  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:08:51pm

re: #34 engineer cat

get rid of all the Christians in the military

that would be quite a trick

i would estimate current percentage of christians in the u.s. military to be somewhere upwards of 98%

unless you’re like some people i’ve met who consider episcopalians to be godless atheists

“We’re being repressed.”
“All we’re saying is other people have the right to live and worship as they choose.”
“TYRANNY!”

37 EPR-radar  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:10:44pm

re: #32 Kragar

More projection, of course. Improper Christian proselytizing in the services and service academies is the issue to watch for here.

38 Jack Burton  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:11:25pm

re: #26 wrenchwench

I’ve been there. Netherstorm is kind of blah, but the scenery is interesting.

39 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:12:24pm

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

What bothers me so much about all of this is the deep distrust people harbor in this govt which allows them to believe this engineered “outrage” at something perfectly legal in a perfectly legal agency which has Congressional oversight. While I’m not naive enough to believe we can trust every single govt official, elected or otherwise, what we have is the single-most effective form of govt in the world—one which many want to emulate in some form, a representative govt. What else is there but pie-in-the-sky idealism which has been tried and not proved worthy?

Instead, what we have is the theft, by a 20-something immature, idealistic hacker, over a period of years, of sensitive top secret documents, affecting not just this country, but others, and which are no doubt being studied by China and Russia and which could be sold or traded to countries unfriendly to the US.

And people are celebrating this guy?

One of the most powerful juvenile urges is to rebel, to fight against “authority.” That’s the prism through which they see Snowden’s actions, the idea that he’s a rebel who’s fighting against the system, rather than a naive little prick whose actions are neither noble nor intelligent. He’s now effectively a prisoner of Russia for the rest of his life, cut off from family and friends by a government that has every reason to keep him isolated and alone. After all, who’s going to help him, the pimps who are making money off him?

40 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:13:00pm
41 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:13:36pm

Spy on US citizens? We don’t do that, the American government claimed. But new NSA documents published by the Washington Post show that the intelligence service violates the law in thousands of instances. Analysts with the agency are free to pick targets as they choose.

42 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:14:23pm

re: #32 Kragar

klingenschmitt

i’m only listening if he brings along somma his peaches

43 blueraven  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:14:32pm

There is a reason a 29 year old person is not allowed to be POTUS.
Snowden is an immature idealist at best. It is not up to him to determine what is best for US security.

44 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:16:06pm

re: #43 blueraven

There is a reason a 29 year old person is not allowed to be POTUS.
Snowden is an immature idealist at best. It is not up to him to determine what is best for US security.

There are 59 year old immature idealists, too.

45 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:16:17pm

re: #43 blueraven

There is a reason a 29 year old person is not allowed to be POTUS.
Snowden is an immature idealist at best. It is not up to him to determine what is best for US security.

Snowden is a narcissistic douche at best.

At worst, he is a treasonous, criminal little shit.

46 simoom  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:16:29pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Man, that seems very close to being deliberately misleading, and certainly does not reflect the real findings of the report at all.

Bart Gellman was actually Laura Poitras’ confidant when she first was being contacted by Snowden. He was the person she trusted to help her vet his teaser classified documents. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have similar worldviews.

salon.com

How did it get to the point where you knew it was going to be a story, and how did you decide where it was going to be published?

Those are the details I’m not going to go into. What I can say is that once I had a few pieces of correspondence, I said, let me ask a couple of people about this, people who have experience, and I sat down with a couple of people, one of whom was Bart Gellman … and he said, it looks like this person could be legit. And that was probably February.

47 EPR-radar  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:17:23pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

One of the most powerful juvenile urges is to rebel, to fight against “authority.” That’s the prism through which they see Snowden’s actions, the idea that he’s a rebel who’s fighting against the system, rather than a naive little prick whose actions are neither noble nor intelligent. He’s now effectively a prisoner of Russia for the rest of his life, cut off from family and friends by a government that has every reason to keep him isolated and alone. After all, who’s going to help him, the pimps who are making money off him?

I certainly agree that Snowden hasn’t grown up. However, Snowden himself doesn’t really match the juvenile rebel model —- he certainly didn’t have much sympathy for leakers when he was commenting on Ars.

48 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:17:42pm

re: #46 simoom

Bart Gellman was actually Laura Poitras’ confidant when she first was being contacted by Snowden. He was the person she trusted to help her vet his teaser classified documents. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have similar worldviews.

salon.com

Ah, disclosure.

49 djcelts  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:17:58pm
The NSA generally won’t know that the person has traveled to the United States.

So the NSA can listen in on all this data, but they can’t figure out that someone they are tracking has entered the US from a foreign country? I find that hard to believe.

50 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:18:00pm

Good grief, that Spiegel article is fucking ridiculous. Argh.

51 A Mom Anon  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:18:36pm

re: #6 NJDhockeyfan

Could be that weather got to the phones and the batteries are toast. I don’t know much about where the phones were found other than outdoors somewhere near a suspect’s house right? Unless they were sealed up and stored with some kind of desiccant there’s a good chance they were wet or at least damp inside.

I hope for the sake of all families involved they find the missing so families can find peace, even if it’s the worst possible outcome.

52 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:18:43pm

re: #40 Gus

[Embedded content]

“Analysts with the agency are free to pick targets as they choose.”

That’s what Snowald & Co wants us to believe.

Christian Stöcker: Vintage ‘73. He was born and raised in Wuerzburg, Wuerzburg and studied psychology in Bristol and graduated in 2003 in cognitive psychology. In Munich, he then studied at the Bavarian Theatre Academy, cultural criticism, and wrote, among other things in parallel for the “Süddeutsche Zeitung”, “Time” and SPIEGEL ONLINE. Since February 2005, SPIEGEL ONLINE in the science departments and the internet world, since January 2009, Deputy Head of Unit, since February 2011 Head of Network World. (Google translation from German)

53 blueraven  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:20:54pm

re: #44 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

There are 59 year old immature idealists, too.

Yes, but by that age they are usually less so. They have experienced enough to adopt some pragmatism. If not they will not go far in politics.

There is nothing wrong with retaining some idealism.

54 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:21:24pm
55 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:22:19pm

re: #47 EPR-radar

I certainly agree that Snowden hasn’t grown up. However, Snowden himself doesn’t really match the juvenile rebel model —- he certainly didn’t have much sympathy for leakers when he was commenting on Ars.

Snowden strikes me as a self-important prick, juvenile in that he never matured enough to realize the world does not revolve around him and does not conform to his ideals. I’m of the opinion that he was denied a promotion or fired from a job and decided he’d “get even” for it.

56 simoom  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:22:36pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

Good grief, that Spiegel article is fucking ridiculous. Argh.

Wow, you’re right. I’m a few paragraphs in and this is just idiotic:

“I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authority to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal e-mail,” Snowden told the Guardian in an interview published in June. Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said of Snowden’s assertion, “He’s lying. It’s impossible for him to do what he was saying he could do.”

But the new documents show that Snowden wasn’t lying, and it was Rogers who had it wrong. Whether Rogers did so knowingly or because the Congressman had been deceived by the intelligence service must still be clarified.

57 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:23:14pm

re: #55 Targetpractice

Snowden strikes me as a self-important prick, juvenile in that he never matured enough to realize the world does not revolve around him and does not conform to his ideals. I’m of the opinion that he was denied a promotion or fired from a job and decided he’d “get even” for it.

He had a $62/hr job in spite of his totally crappy resume.

58 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:24:29pm

re: #57 Vicious Babushka

He had a $62/hr job in spite of his totally crappy resume.

Peter Principle in action.

59 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:25:48pm

re: #52 Justanotherhuman

“Analysts with the agency are free to pick targets as they choose.”

That’s what Snowald & Co wants us to believe.

Christian Stöcker: Vintage ‘73. He was born and raised in Wuerzburg, Wuerzburg and studied psychology in Bristol and graduated in 2003 in cognitive psychology. In Munich, he then studied at the Bavarian Theatre Academy, cultural criticism, and wrote, among other things in parallel for the “Süddeutsche Zeitung”, “Time” and SPIEGEL ONLINE. Since February 2005, SPIEGEL ONLINE in the science departments and the internet world, since January 2009, Deputy Head of Unit, since February 2011 Head of Network World. (Google translation from German)

Ah, a psychology-theater major.

60 Norbrook  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:26:08pm

re: #56 simoom

No,he was lying, in that he didn’t have the ability or capability to ‘wiretap’ anyone. That implies that he could gain access to voice recordings, the text of e-mails, and so on. That wasn’t in the data he took, nor is it in the data collected by the programs. Metadata is simply “data about the data,” so he might be able to figure out where you went or who you were calling, but to actually gain access to the rest of it, you need several other sets of permission, including a warrant.

61 simoom  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:26:30pm

re: #56 simoom

And they aren’t aware of the WaPo clarification so they of course got this wrong:

The Washington Post reports on how the NSA accidentally intercepted a “large number” of calls placed from Washington in 2008 when a programming error confused the US area code 202 for 20, the international dialling code for Egypt.

Gellman’s initial screw-up is spreading misinformation around the world.

62 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:26:37pm

re: #59 Gus

Ah, a psychology-theater major.

A degree in Emoprog!

63 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:28:06pm

re: #62 Vicious Babushka

A degree in Emoprog!

Ha! You’re right.

64 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:28:40pm

re: #59 Gus

Ah, a psychology-theater major.

in this modern world of today these here fellers need to larn how to chew on a bit

65 blueraven  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:31:29pm

Ugh…Fox news re-playing parts of their [unfair and unbalanced] “documentary” on SNAP every night on Special Report with Brett Baier. Tonight’s excerpt featuring Charles Murray. Ugh

66 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:35:07pm
67 thedopefishlives  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:37:59pm

Evening Lizardim.

68 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:38:45pm

re: #66 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Ah, Gunnison. At least he hasn’t gone all Heywood.

69 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:39:56pm

Who wants the nic “Pavlovian Hive-Mind”?

70 Jack Burton  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:42:36pm

re: #69 Vicious Babushka

Who wants the nic “Pavlovian Hive-Mind”?

That almost as good as the original Self-subservient Honcos comment.

71 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:42:36pm

Youtube Video

Yeah when you call my name
I salivate like a Pavlov dog
Yeah when you lay me out
My heart’s pumpin’ louder than a big bass drum…

72 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:42:40pm
73 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:42:53pm

re: #69 Vicious Babushka

Who wants the nic “Pavlovian Hive-Mind”?

It irritates me when people say “Pavlovian” when they mean “Skinnerian.” I think people just conflate the two of them, but they really couldn’t be more different.

Pavlov proved that external stimuli could cause autonomic physical effects. That you’d start salivating when hearing a bell, because you associated that with food. He proved a lot of other stuff about how the body reacts to stimuli.

Skinner was the one who did behavior modification and environment, who showed conditioning in ‘conscious’ behavior and thought.

74 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:45:30pm

The Stones got Pavlov right.

75 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:46:18pm

re: #72 Vicious Babushka

To put this in non-dudebro perspective: There are 500,000 ‘stop and frisk’ stops every year. They have been found to be unconstitutional by a judge and it will get argued up but I’m pretty confident it’ll remain unconstitutional. 500,000. Millions of people have been affected. For real actual hands-on-your body affected. How were the people who inadvertently had their data collected and analyzed affected?

Obviously, it’s still wrong, and I’d like even tighter controls at the NSA. I’d also like the FBI to stop infiltrating groups that have no real connection to violence or crime. I’d also like quite a few other 4th amendment things, and the NSA issue doesn’t make my top 10.

76 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:47:28pm

From the Spiegel article: “Even larger, though, is the number of NSA targets affected who are not US citizens. And they enjoy no protections at all.”

“Who are not US citizens” should be the Big Clue as to why they don’t, Mr. Stöcker, and you miss the entire point with that statement, because those are usually the targets of most NSA inquiries to prevent foreign terrorism against the US.

77 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:47:33pm
78 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:48:42pm

re: #77 Gus

[Embedded content]

He’s projecting a blockbuster.

79 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:49:51pm

Oh shit…this is not good

80 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:52:08pm

re: #79 NJDhockeyfan

Not quite. From Al Jazeera English:

blogs.aljazeera.com

Omaymah, a witness speaking from Cairo mosque where Morsi supporters are holed up, told Al Jazeera that security forces are trying to enter Al-Fath mosque in the Ramsis area.

“They are threatening to burn the mosque. They are trying to enter the mosque,” she said.

“Men inside the mosque are trying to keep the doors locked using bookshelves and other stuff.”

Omaymah said there were 600 to 700 people besieged in the mosque

Still very, very bad.

81 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:53:28pm

re: #77 Gus

[Embedded content]

If he’s lost Oliver Stone, he’s lost the entire grassy knoll.

82 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:53:42pm

re: #79 NJDhockeyfan

Oh shit…this is not good

[Embedded content]

That’s bad. As in epic level of fuckery bad. Burning down a mosque (or a church or synagogue or temple or whatever) is beyond the pale, and I have no patience for whomever is doing it. And it’s even worse when said religious structure is filled with people. That’s atrocity territory.

83 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:54:27pm

re: #80 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Not quite. From Al Jazeera English:

blogs.aljazeera.com

Still very, very bad.

84 teleskiguy  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 3:57:58pm

I’ll bet this has been a LGF comment somewhere since Greenwald started publishing his shit, but it should be noted:

From The United States Constitution Article I Section 5 Clause 3:
Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.

Emphasis my own.

85 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:07:47pm
86 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:08:01pm

re: #84 teleskiguy

I’ll bet this has been a LGF comment somewhere since Greenwald started publishing his shit, but it should be noted:

Emphasis my own.

You don’t mind if I passed that on, do you? : )

Like all libertarians, Greenwald isn’t the Constitutional scholar he wants people to think he is but concentrates on the Bill of Rights to the exclusion of the original body of work.

87 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:08:30pm

Pavlovian hive-mind

mixed metaphor alert!!!

salivating bees???

88 Amory Blaine  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:10:39pm

Scott Walker appoints new student regent — one who didn’t sign recall
First appointment was rescinded over signing of recall petition

Gov. Scott Walker on Friday appointed a University of Wisconsin-Platteville student to the UW System Board of Regents after earlier this summer yanking another student’s appointment because he didn’t disclose that he signed a petition seeking the governor’s recall two years ago.

Chad Landes, a UW-Platteville student majoring in animal science, will get the seat that the governor initially promised to Joshua Inglett, a UW-Platteville engineering physics student. Landes will replace student regent Katie Pointer, whose two-year term expired May 1. The appointment is subject to state Senate confirmation.

…….

Walker initially named Inglett to the Board of Regents in June, but at the 11th hour withdrew the young man’s appointment after finding out Inglett had signed the recall petition as an 18-year-old freshman.

89 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:10:43pm

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

90 Amory Blaine  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:12:34pm

What is thy bidding my master?

91 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:12:49pm

threatening to burn mosque

paging the president of the united states to the red telephone please

92 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:14:19pm

re: #85 Gus

Fucking shit, this guy was such a good follow UNTIL THIS CRAP:

93 Amory Blaine  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:16:01pm

All this media misinformation reminds me of the run-up to the Iraq war.

94 teleskiguy  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:17:38pm

re: #86 Justanotherhuman

You don’t mind if I passed that on, do you? : )

Like all libertarians, Greenwald isn’t the Constitutional scholar he wants people to think he is but concentrates on the Bill of Rights to the exclusion of the original body of work.

Please do!

It disheartens me sometimes that people en massé really have no idea how their government works. Reading the Constitution is a breeze! It’s only 4400 words long! It’s only been changed 18 times (I count the Bill of Rights one change) in 226 years. If y’all don’t find that fascinating I don’t know what to tell you.

95 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:18:22pm

Obama Is a ‘Snake’ and ‘We Have to Turn on Him’ Says… | Video | TheBlaze.com

Welcome to REALITY, Oliver !

A little late to the tyrant’s game
but as they say better late than never.

In the meantime, the King Rat in this administration
& his gang of radical rodents
have already gutted the country from the inside out-
the good & the wholesome for their lazy, crazy liberal agenda.

America is on an accelerated treadmill
trying to outpace their damage & infestation,
their obliteration of all freedom
our beloved military continues to fight & die for
while being ignored by a government
who royally redistributes our money
to those contributing nothing
but the “Gimmee Mo’” hump n’ grind mentality.

Miltary & Veterans FIRST….vagrants & freeloaders last !
That’s what America wants !
Country & LEGAL citizens FIRST-
everything else secondary.

Constitution FIRST…communist collusion…NEVER !

All Oliver, Oblameo & the rest of the chumps had to do was LISTEN to the American People.

Yes, Oblameo is a SNAKE-
listen to the words he, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton & Co. repeat constantly
in their phony rhetoric….
“the American People, the Middle Class, the Military”-
these words dominant their lying malarkey
because they know they are the constants
they so desperately want to break…abuse of power.

If they truly cared about any of the three-
the country, citizens & military would not be suffering under their rule.

Snowden IS more a ‘Man of the People”
than any of the current regime will ever be !

96 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:20:39pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

Fucking shit, this guy was such a good follow UNTIL THIS CRAP:

[Embedded content]

Seen him go by my TL. Yeah, the Bibi hate shows up once in a while.

97 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:21:25pm

re: #72 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

When did he switch the subject to talking about automobile drivers speeding?
// :p

98 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:21:52pm

re: #96 Gus

Seen him go by my TL. Yeah, the Bibi hate shows up once in a while.

He is pretty good at engaging wingnuts, should I let him know this LWNJ stuff is not helpful or just ignore it?

99 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:23:30pm

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

He is pretty good at engaging wingnuts, should I let him know this LWNJ stuff is not helpful or just ignore it?

Up to you. Probably won’t work. I mean one could argue the fact that Iran has been threatening Israel for some time now and intends to go nuclear while leaving Bibi out of the picture.

100 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:24:51pm
On Hoover’s BEST day back in the 1950′s and 1960′s did he have “500,000″ people bugged. He couldn’t dream of having that kind of wiretapping technology nor manpower 50 years ago. He had to allocate resources a bit more responsibly and realistically back then. NOWADAYS, it’s easy, because there are NO limits — not technologically, not practically, not with regard to manpower, and certainly not with something pesky like the Constitution.

That said, Mr. Oliver, it’s nice to see you waking up to find the snake you all have elevated to the most powerful office in the world. It’s just a bit late now. Any suggestions about what we can do to get all your Leftist buddies to give a rats a$$ about the 4th Amendment? They seem to care very little about the other ones…. The 1st, 2nd, and 10th in particular….?

At any rate, good morning. Glad you’re “awake.” Try not to fall back into your Leftist Utopian stupor again….

101 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:25:37pm
Snake, Rodeo Clown, Liar and Chief, Cowardly Kenyan, towel boy at the Chicago Down Low Club, King of Hawaii, Man!! I’m confused, just how many jobs does the Disbarred community organizer have!! No wonder he needs so many vacation days!
102 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:26:44pm

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

He is pretty good at engaging wingnuts, should I let him know this LWNJ stuff is not helpful or just ignore it?

Heh. I remember my late grandmother, a Swede, who would fall into sputtering rage whenever Yitzhak Shamir turned up on the TV news. A host of Swedish obscenities would turn the air blue.

Yet she absolutely loved Golda Meir and she respected Menachmen Begin.

But there was just something about Shamir that totally set her off.

103 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:27:13pm

re: #102 Dr Lizardo

Heh. I remember my late grandmother, a Swede, who would fall into sputtering rage whenever Yitzhak Shamir turned up on the TV news. A host of Swedish obscenities would turn the air blue.

Yet she absolutely loved Golda Meir and she respected Menachmen Begin.

But there was just something about Shamir that totally set her off.

Must have been the ear hair.

104 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:31:17pm

re: #85 Gus

Oliver Stone thinks “Obama is a snake.” Here he is with his political idol, the now deceased Hugo Chavez.

notwithstanding how much of an “emoprog” i am, this is two giant steps off of the reservation from my point of view

i’m a cynic not a purist

105 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:32:24pm
106 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:33:36pm

I. can’t. even.

5-minute outage costs Google $545,000 in revenue

venturebeat.com

107 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:33:38pm

re: #102 Dr Lizardo

Heh. I remember my late grandmother, a Swede, who would fall into sputtering rage whenever Yitzhak Shamir turned up on the TV news. A host of Swedish obscenities would turn the air blue.

Yet she absolutely loved Golda Meir and she respected Menachmen Begin.

But there was just something about Shamir that totally set her off.

um just possibly it might have been this:

Shamir, Eldad and Yellin-Mor authorised the murder of the United Nations representative in the Middle East, Count Folke Bernadotte during a truce

108 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:34:33pm

re: #105 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

There it is! It’s official! TEH JUICE ARE BEHIND THE MORSI OUSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

109 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:35:29pm
110 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:35:55pm

re: #103 Vicious Babushka

Must have been the ear hair.

LOL. I was just reflecting on it now, and it was a level of outright hatred that seemed personal. The kind of anger reserved for someone who’d killed half the members of your family or something to that effect. To this day, I still can’t figure out what it was.

Maybe it was the ear hair, because I can’t think of any other logical explanation. Perhaps there may have been some latent anti-Semtism, and Shamir just set her off on that tangent…..but as I said, she was a big fan of Begin and Meir - she called Golda Meir “the greatest leader of the period after World War Two.” She liked Golda Meir more than she liked Olaf Palme.

111 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:35:58pm

re: #107 engineer cat

Hell that is one of the reasons for my neutrality in that conflict. Though, I admit I would lean Palestinian if they had a group in power that wasn’t Fatah or Hamas. A third-way in the middle.

112 Amory Blaine  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:37:01pm

re: #106 Justanotherhuman

Wow I thought it was just me. It was down a bit ago.

113 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:37:06pm

re: #110 Dr Lizardo

LOL. I was just reflecting on it now, and it was a level of outright hatred that seemed personal. The kind of anger reserved for someone who’d killed half the members of your family or something to that effect. To this day, I still can’t figure out what it was.

Maybe it was the ear hair, because I can’t think of any other logical explanation. Perhaps there may have been some latent anti-Semtism, and Shamir just set her off on that tangent…..but as I said, she was a big fan of Begin and Meir - she called Golda Meir “the greatest leader of the period after World War Two.” She liked Golda Meir more than she liked Olaf Palme.

engineer cat said further up, the assassination of Folke Bernadotte.

114 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:37:42pm

re: #107 engineer cat

um just possibly it might have been this:

Shamir, Eldad and Yellin-Mor authorised the murder of the United Nations representative in the Middle East, Count Folke Bernadotte during a truce

That could explain it. Count Folke Bernadotte was highly regarded by Swedes.

115 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:38:09pm

re: #111 ProTARDISLiberal

Hell that is one of the reasons for my neutrality in that conflict. Though, I admit I would lean Palestinian if they had a group in power that wasn’t Fatah or Hamas. A third-way in the middle.

generally speaking my position is that i am displeased with everybody

116 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:44:03pm

interesting article regarding the cadence of Drone strikes in Yemen this year.
investigations.nbcnews.com

117 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:44:15pm
118 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:46:04pm

Sigh. Reading through and getting caught up is almost enough to make me want to go back out into the woods. There are a few good things about camping, not many but this and a little whiskey?

Image: coffeandfire.JPG

Tolerable ;)

119 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:46:25pm

re: #115 engineer cat

generally speaking my position is that i am displeased with everybody

Youtube Video

120 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:50:10pm

re: #113 Vicious Babushka

engineer cat said further up, the assassination of Folke Bernadotte.

“Across the street from the coffee shop, a murder was committed at Ben-Zion Guini Square. Count Folke Bernadotte, a mediator appointed by the United Nations, had just completed a proposal that he hoped would stop ongoing battles for Israel’s independence. Among his suggestions: Hand the Negev over to the Arabs and return Arab refugees to Jewish-controlled territory.

“On September 17, 1948, afraid that the new Israeli government might agree to Bernadotte’s plan, members of the Lehi ambushed his motorcade as it passed this square. One of the group shot and killed both Bernadotte and his aid Andre Serot.”

jpost.com

Another acct from an eyewitness (UN testimony): unispal.un.org

121 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:53:14pm

Coptic church statement: We stand firmly with Egyptian police and armed forces - @SherineT

wrong answer

122 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 5:02:48pm

re: #121 engineer cat

Coptic church statement: We stand firmly with Egyptian police and armed forces - @SherineT

wrong answer

Do you think there would be a right answer for a person that wants to kill Coptics?

123 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 5:03:47pm

re: #121 engineer cat

Coptic church statement: We stand firmly with Egyptian police and armed forces - @SherineT

wrong answer

Translation of statement: twitter.com

124 dog philosopher  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 5:05:29pm

re: #122 Gus

Do you think there would be a right answer for a person that wants to kill Coptics?

perhaps i have misinterpreted it

i am thinking everybody there ought to stand together against violence

125 Gus  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 5:07:25pm

re: #124 engineer cat

perhaps i have misinterpreted it

i am thinking everybody there ought to stand together against violence

Yeah, the single Tweet is kind of irresponsible for a journalist. Did some searching and found the full statement.

126 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 5:17:37pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

[Embedded content]

I love that song! I couldn’t remember who did it, but I remember that album cover. I’d say I took that in with mother’s milk, but Mom said she weaned me (too) early.

127 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 5:54:40pm

re: #121 engineer cat

re: #122 Gus

The MB encouraged persecution of Copts while in power. Being nice and open to the MB got the Copts nothing.

It looks like the Egyptian Military is going to try and take a page from Mehmet Ali Pasha’s book and crush the Muslim Brotherhood.

128 jvic  Fri, Aug 16, 2013 7:36:18pm

Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udall are members of the Senate Intelligence Committee. They released a joint statement whose emphasis is very different from Feinstein’s.

I know little about Udall, but Wyden has been very strong on civil liberties in cyberspace.


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