Glenn Greenwald’s Partner Detained at Heathrow Airport, Massive Freak Out Ensues

Here we go again
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Now why would the UK detain someone who lives with Glenn Greenwald, who’s been leaking top secret UK documents? Wow. That’s a real head-scratcher.

Glenn Greenwald’s Partner Detained at Heathrow Airport for Nine Hours.

The real question is how Greenwald and his partner could have been so out of touch with reality that they didn’t expect something like this to happen, when David Miranda was returning from a visit with Greenwald’s collaborator, Laura Poitras. And Greenwald has stated openly that his partner was given copies of the documents stolen by Edward Snowden.

While in Berlin, Miranda had visited Laura Poitras, the US film-maker who has also been working on the Snowden files with Greenwald and the Guardian.

Glenn is totally losing it over this, of course.

“This is a profound attack on press freedoms and the news gathering process,” said Greenwald. “To detain my partner for a full nine hours while denying him a lawyer, and then seize large amounts of his possessions, is clearly intended to send a message of intimidation to those of us who have been reporting on the NSA and GCHQ. The actions of the UK pose a serious threat to journalists everywhere.

“But the last thing it will do is intimidate or deter us in any way from doing our job as journalists. Quite the contrary: it will only embolden us more to continue to report aggressively.”

This is shaping up to be an emoprog outrage of epic proportions — and just in time to distract attention away from the interview in which Julian Assange came out as a supporter of the US extreme right wing.

UPDATE at 8/18/13 2:04:06 pm

Glenn Greenwald turns in another thousand words, and says the UK government is worse than the Mafia: Detaining My Partner: A Failed Attempt at Intimidation.

Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they feel threatened by. But the UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

UPDATE at 8/18/13 2:09:15 pm

It isn’t mentioned in any of the articles at The Guardian, oddly enough, but the New York Times reports that The Guardian paid for Greenwald’s partner’s trip: Britain Detains Partner of Reporter Tied to Leaks

WASHINGTON — The partner of Glenn Greenwald, the journalist for The Guardian who has been publishing information leaked by the former National Security Agency contractor Edward J. Snowden, was detained for nine hours by the British authorities under a counterterrorism law while on a stop in London’s Heathrow Airport during a trip from Germany to Brazil, Mr. Greenwald said Sunday.

Mr. Greenwald’s partner, David Michael Miranda, 28, is a citizen of Brazil. He had spent the previous week visiting Laura Poitras, a documentary filmmaker who has also been helping to disseminate Mr. Snowden’s leaks, in Berlin, to assist Mr. Greenwald. The trip had been paid for by The Guardian, Mr. Greenwald said, and Mr. Miranda was on his way home to Rio de Janeiro, where they live.

UPDATE at 8/18/13 3:25:27 pm

The Guardian has now added a line to their article that they paid for Greenwald’s partner’s trip, without noting that it’s an addition.

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501 comments
1 Kragar  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:07:07pm

I imagine the words “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?” were uttered at some point.

2 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:09:26pm

They must not have thought that what they were doing was very courageous if they thought there were going to be no possible consequences for it.

(That said, as I said on Twitter, I’m pretty sure Greenwald is loving this. All the dudebros have already decided that this was somehow Obama’s doing.)

3 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:09:38pm

Nine hours, the poor guy. Nine whole damn hours. Truly a police state.

4 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:10:05pm

Greenwald: Snowden’s Files Are Out There if ‘Anything Happens’ to Him

“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in Rio via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald said. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”

Stating intention here to send document to his partner. Also:

5 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:10:51pm

Oh shit, He’s emboldened now.

6 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:12:47pm
7 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:14:27pm
8 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:14:58pm

I think that it is more than likely that David Miranda was looking for refuge and a new identity.

//

9 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:15:06pm

The dumbest element of their memeset is : “There are copies out there for insurance if anything happens to me.” As soon as Snowden’s shit got loose, the spooks wrote off everything he could have touched, worst-cased it. They’re not hanging on Greenwald’s mercy or decency.

10 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:15:46pm

I follow a lot of liberals who I respect, but I’m going to have to unfollow, because the deification of Greenwald makes me want to barf.

11 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:16:30pm
12 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:17:15pm
13 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:17:56pm

Wondering if GG haz an extra sad because David Miranda was detained at Heathrow instead of an airport in the US, where they could start screaming about Miranda rights…

ok, weak joke, but I had to get it out of my brain…

14 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:18:08pm

This is just irresponsible:

In their rush to label Greenwald, et al TEH MOST OPPRESSED PEOPLES EVAH, Greenwald’s fans are just straight up fabricating shit.

15 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:18:46pm

Gays live rent-free in Bryan’s brain:

16 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:18:57pm

re: #9 Decatur Deb

The dumbest element of their memeset is : “There are copies out there for insurance if anything happens to me.” As soon as Snowden’s shit got loose, the spooks wrote off everything he could have touched, worst-cased it. They’re not hanging on Greenwald’s mercy or decency.

And it’s one reason the deeply cynical side of me says that some CIA and DIA guys are really happy about this outcome, because they think humint has been neglected in favor of technological eavesdropping.

17 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:18:58pm

Apropos of everything:

nytimes.com

18 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:21:24pm

David Miranda, who lives with Glenn Greenwald, was returning from a trip to Berlin when he was stopped by officers at 8.30am and informed that he was to be questioned under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The controversial law, which applies only at airports, ports and border areas, allows officers to stop, search, question and detain individuals.

19 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:21:29pm

re: #17 austin_blue

Apropos of everything:

nytimes.com

She seems to be the brains behind the menage, to use a couple terms loosely.

20 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:22:06pm

re: #2 Minor_L

They must not have thought that what they were doing was very courageous if they thought there were going to be no possible consequences for it.

(That said, as I said on Twitter, I’m pretty sure Greenwald is loving this. All the dudebros have already decided that this was somehow Obama’s doing.)

But of course. Expect to see the Bush era charge renewed to the effect that David Cameron is called “Barack Obama’s poodle”.

21 nofurrythings18  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:23:49pm

Ahhhh yes. The king of butt hurt yelps. When Miranda turns into a young black man in the US trying to get home without getting shot, tazed or kept from voting I’ll feel sorry for him.

22 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:25:06pm

Fun on Planet Wingnut:

23 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:25:57pm

Jacob Appelbaum

He has moved to Berlin, has applied for a residence authorization in Germany and doesn’t want to go back to the USA, because he doesn’t feel safe there.

24 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:28:30pm
25 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:30:21pm

Totally O/T, but I have one of those keyboards that has all sorts of little buttons on both ends. Some are obvious, others are head scratchers.
One of the kittens has decided to help me figure them out by jumping on the keyboard.
Her favorite appears to be the one that brings up the calculator…apparently she’s trying to help me be more catlike and calculating…

26 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:30:57pm
27 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:33:10pm

re: #15 Balfour Rage

Also, since when is “divert to rehab” our policy on drugs?

28 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:33:59pm

I wouldn’t like being detained for hours during an overseas trip, and I certainly wouldn’t like to have a love one endure such a thing either.

Having said that, calling this situation “a profound attack on press freedoms and the news gathering process” is utter hyperbole. As far as we know, there is no proof that this detention has anything to do with the link to Greenwald.

29 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:34:16pm
30 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:36:16pm

!

UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

— The Greenwald

31 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:40:18pm

re: #30 Gus

!

UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

— The Greenwald

If the western governments were so unconstrained, one of these bullshitters would be bumped in front of the Underground.

Image: dsc03859.jpg

32 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:40:52pm

re: #30 Gus

!

UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

— The Greenwald

More:

This is obviously a rather profound escalation of their attacks on the news-gathering process and journalism. It’s bad enough to prosecute and imprison sources. It’s worse still to imprison journalists who report the truth. But to start detaining the family members and loved ones of journalists is simply despotic. Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they feel threatened by. But the UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

theguardian.com

33 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:41:12pm

re: #29 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

34 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:41:20pm

re: #28 bratwurst

Greenwald stated that he was sending encrypted files to his partner. I don’t think there’s ever a time when a government is going to not investigate a dude after that, and not check out his electronics.

35 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:44:04pm

This is obviously a rather profound escalation of their attacks on the news-gathering process and journalism. It’s bad enough to prosecute and imprison sources. It’s worse still to imprison journalists who report the truth. But to start detaining the family members and loved ones of journalists is simply despotic. Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they feel threatened by. But the UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

36 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:44:42pm
37 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:45:09pm

re: #34 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Greenwald stated that he was sending encrypted files to his partner. I don’t think there’s ever a time when a government is going to not investigate a dude after that, and not check out his electronics.

Quite Concur, but slight grammar revision warranted.

38 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:45:18pm

re: #35 Gus

The mafia murdered family members all the time.

39 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:47:02pm

David had spent the last week in Berlin, where he stayed with Laura Poitras…

40 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:47:39pm

re: #38 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The mafia murdered family members all the time.

Least of Guardian’s derp.

41 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:49:54pm

re: #35 Gus

This is obviously a rather profound escalation of their attacks on the news-gathering process and journalism. It’s bad enough to prosecute and imprison sources. It’s worse still to imprison journalists who report the truth. But to start detaining the family members and loved ones of journalists is simply despotic. Even the Mafia had ethical rules against targeting the family members of people they feel threatened by. But the UK puppets and their owners in the US national security state obviously are unconstrained by even those minimal scruples.

Yes, the British government is worse than the mafia. Bada-pip!

Image: facepalm_by_axelhenson-d4mosiu.jpg

42 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:51:35pm

re: #30 Gus

Greenwald’s supporters are just flat out saying that the US is involved, with no proof whatsoever. I don’t know how they think this helps their case. Deliberate misinformation has been the bugaboo of Greenwald and Snowden from the get go. I think they could criticize this without dishonesty, but they it’s not enough for them. They have to make it sound worse than it is. Overdramatizing = no credibility.

43 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:55:01pm
44 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:56:09pm
45 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:57:44pm
46 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:59:44pm

If Schedule 7 allows for detention “without the need for any reasonable suspicion” why would the UK need to coordinate with the NSA or USA?

47 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 12:59:52pm

Yes, every government in the world is out to get you.

I’d suggest a Mental Health Professional.

48 Feline Overlord  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:00:54pm

I’ve had my Canadian same-sex partner detained at the US border for two hours, and while highly irritating, Greenwald’s experience is hardly unusual, especially at a high-volume crossing like Heathrow.

Foreign nationals crossing any border are subject to extra scrutiny, and all you have to do is fit a profile or have paperwork out of order and they will detain you.

49 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:01:50pm

How do we know he wasn’t detained because of profiling?

50 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:02:26pm

Miranda has morphed from GG’s partner to GG’s collaborator. Thanks, Glenn.

51 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:02:52pm

re: #46 Gus

If Schedule 7 allows for detention “without the need for any reasonable suspicion” why would the UK need to coordinate with the NSA or USA?

Because they fear the Dudebro Alliance, or course!

52 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:03:07pm

Did they even know who he was? Olive skinned man with rough beard and foreign accent.

53 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:03:57pm

On a more basic level, it’s clear that Greenbeck thinks he has some sort of universal right to take any and all damaging actions against governments without being subjected to any sort of repercussions. It’s reflective of his more basic left/right derp-convergence mindset that governments are fundamentally and conceptually illegitimate.

54 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:05:36pm

How long one is detained often has to do with one’s actions and reactions while being detained.

55 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:06:06pm

re: #52 Gus

Did they even know who he was? Olive skinned man with rough beard and foreign accent.

That right there might explain the initial stop: Detained on suspicion of Attempted Flying While Islamic.

56 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:06:50pm

Guardian story:

The 28-year-old was held for nine hours, the maximum the law allows before officers must release or formally arrest the individual. According to official figures, most examinations under schedule 7 - over 97% - last under an hour, and only one in 2,000 people detained are kept for more than six hours.

Greenwald story:

At the time the “security official” called me, David had been detained for 3 hours. The security official told me that they had the right to detain him for up to 9 hours in order to question him, at which point they could either arrest and charge him or ask a court to extend the question time. The official - who refused to give his name but would only identify himself by his number: 203654 - said David was not allowed to have a lawyer present, nor would they allow me to talk to him.

57 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:07:21pm
58 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:07:22pm

re: #55 Dark_Falcon

That right there might explain the initial stop: Detained on suspicion of Attempted Flying While Islamic.

Occam’s Razor says: “I’ll cut you.”

59 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:07:49pm

re: #56 Gus

Guardian story:

Greenwald story:

THEY ACTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT POSSIBLE WITHIN THE LAW

DUDEBRO OUTRAEG

60 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:11:48pm

re: #3 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Nine hours, the poor guy. Nine whole damn hours. Truly a police state.

I would say being detained 9 hours without charge or access to a lawyer is something of a problem. What exactly is the reason he was detained beyond “we can do it so why not?”

61 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:13:24pm

re: #60 celticdragon

I would say being detained 9 hours without charge or access to a lawyer is something of a problem. What exactly is the reason he was detained beyond “we can do it so why not?”

Perhaps they were looking for stolen documents.

62 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:13:26pm

re: #56 Gus

Guardian story:

Greenwald story:

OK, later Greenwald says 5 more hours went by so a total of 8 hours.

63 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:14:00pm

re: #60 celticdragon

I would say being detained 9 hours without charge or access to a lawyer is something of a problem. What exactly is the reason he was detained beyond “we can do it so why not?”

See link at #36.

64 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:14:50pm

re: #56 Gus

Guardian story:

Greenwald story:

So this was the absolute maximum? Why did they do it if it wasn’t just to fuck with the guy?

This is the kind of bullshit that make law enforcement look bad. “Contempt of cop” and all that.

I don’t like Greenwald. That doesn’t mean I think that I want arbitrary law enforcement abuse of people.

65 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:14:57pm

re: #60 celticdragon

I would say being detained 9 hours without charge or access to a lawyer is something of a problem. What exactly is the reason he was detained beyond “we can do it so why not?”

Might have been trying a quick stab at his hard drives.

66 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:16:00pm

re: #63 Gus

See link at #36.

It still looks like arbitrary “Contempt of cop” bullshit for no reason other then to show that they can fuck with you, and it only feeds the paranoia of Greenwalds fans.

67 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:16:33pm

Frankly, if you’re looking at a measured-in-hours Customs delay for a reason to get all contempt-of-cop on the world, you’ve probably already decided you’re going to be outraged and you’re just looking for justification.

68 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:17:01pm

re: #60 celticdragon

I would say being detained 9 hours without charge or access to a lawyer is something of a problem. What exactly is the reason he was detained beyond “we can do it so why not?”

Because it was known that Greenwald had stated he was sending him top-secret intelligence documents. He said that very publicly.

69 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:17:14pm

re: #54 FemNaziBitch

How long one is detained often has to do with one’s actions and reactions while being detained.

The “furtive movement” thing that is used is a pretext to stop people who have brown skin.

70 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:17:51pm

re: #64 celticdragon

So this was the absolute maximum? Why did they do it if it wasn’t just to fuck with the guy?

This is the kind of bullshit that make law enforcement look bad. “Contempt of cop” and all that.

I don’t like Greenwald. That doesn’t mean I think that I want arbitrary law enforcement abuse of people.

Max. is 9. You don’t need probably cause under schedule 7. For all we know he was profiled for being a POC from Brazil. I would argue that if they knew who he was, and given Greenwald’s prior statements, that they could have had cause to detain him.

71 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:18:28pm

re: #67 erik_t

Frankly, if you’re looking at a measured-in-hours Customs delay for a reason to get all contempt-of-cop on the world, you’ve probably already decided you’re going to be outraged and you’re just looking for justification.

Um, whatever. I’m not outraged, since I am not a Greenwald fan. I just think it is a bullshit ploy and both sides are useless on this one.

72 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:18:31pm

re: #66 celticdragon

It still looks like arbitrary “Contempt of cop” bullshit for no reason other then to show that they can fuck with you, and it only feeds the paranoia of Greenwalds fans.

Bull shit it looks like that. Greenwald said he’d dump illegally-possessed information with his partner, and Great Britain has every reason to suspect that some of her classified information has been shared with the United States, and so might be part of aforementioned data dump.

A Customs delay is pretty fucking generous, as far as I’m concerned.

73 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:18:38pm
74 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:18:40pm
75 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:19:10pm

NYT, stop calling Greenwald a “reporter”. Please.

Very very very please.

76 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:19:18pm
77 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:20:06pm

The UK Terrorism Act Schedule 7 states: “An examining officer may exercise his powers under this paragraph whether or not he has grounds for suspecting that a person falls within section 40(1)(b).”

78 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:20:31pm

re: #73 Lidane

[Embedded content]

So Miranda was Greenwald’s data mule.

79 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:22:09pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

The UK Terrorism Act Schedule 7 states: “An examining officer may exercise his powers under this paragraph whether or not he has grounds for suspecting that a person falls within section 40(1)(b).”

Which just gets back to they did it because they could and had nothing to really show for it.

It accomplished nothing other than give prima facie evidence to the Alex Jones crowd and the Greenwald emo types.

useless.

80 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:23:09pm

re: #79 celticdragon

Which just gets back to they did it because they could and had nothing to really show for it.

It accomplished nothing other than give prima facie evidence to the Alex Jones crowd and the Greenwald emo types.

useless.

Unless the devices they copped have “useful” on them.

81 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:23:16pm

Back is hurting pretty bad, so I am gonna tack some meds and lie down. see you all tomorrow. :)

82 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:23:25pm

He was detained for 9 hours.

83 celticdragon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:23:49pm

re: #80 Decatur Deb

Unless the devices they copped have “useful” on them.

Maybe. That may prove interesting later, but we will not be told about it.

84 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:24:17pm

re: #79 celticdragon

Which just gets back to they did it because they could and had nothing to really show for it.

“We found nothing in our search, therefore the search was a mistake and it was unjustifiable” is a hell of a standard to apply to law enforcement investigations.

85 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:24:26pm

re: #29 Balfour Rage

NewsNinja is a wingnut troll, attempting to use facts & logic on him is useless.

86 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:24:44pm

re: #79 celticdragon

Which just gets back to they did it because they could and had nothing to really show for it.

It accomplished nothing other than give prima facie evidence to the Alex Jones crowd and the Greenwald emo types.

useless.

You don’t actually know what they got out of holding him or interviewing him.

87 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:25:08pm

It’s been established that this trip was paid for by the Guardian.

88 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:25:16pm
89 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:25:22pm

re: #85 Vicious Babushka

NewsNinja is a wingnut troll, attempting to use facts & logic on him is useless.

Minor TPGOP blackwasher.

90 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:25:33pm

re: #76 Lidane

Aside from paying higher fees than any other airport in Europe, being exposed to a great possibility for delays, having to go through security again when arriving on a connecting flight from elsewhere in Europe, and then having to wait in a common area for gates for flights to be posted an hour ahead of time, then join a herd of passengers heading to the gate which could easily be a ten minute walk, what is not to like about Heathrow?

91 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:25:51pm

re: #74 Charles Johnson

If they are so right, they would include ALL of the facts. The selective reporting is telling.

92 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:26:39pm

re: #90 bratwurst

Aside from paying higher fees than any other airport in Europe, being exposed to a great possibility for delays, having to go through security again when arriving on a connecting flight from elsewhere in Europe, and then having to wait in a common area for gates for flights to be posted an hour ahead of time, then join a herd of passengers heading to the gate which could easily be a ten minute walk, what is not to like about Heathrow?

It’s not Atlanta/Hartsfield.

93 teleskiguy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:29:14pm

Dudebro butthurt is getting out of control.

94 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:32:49pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

It’s not Atlanta/Hartsfield.

Believe it or not, it really is worse than Atlanta is most ways…AND you pay a premium for the privilege of flying through there.

95 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:33:52pm

Maybe the brain trusts should have read the Mirror since Heathrow appears to be on higher alert than usual:

Breast implants suicide bomb threat: Heathrow on high alert over “credible” intelligence

mirror.co.uk

96 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:33:56pm

re: #81 celticdragon

Heal well there. Hate that back pain.

97 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:35:55pm
98 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:36:38pm

Front page.

99 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:36:43pm
100 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:38:43pm

*sigh*

101 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:41:18pm

Say something breathlessly enough and you might get people to overlook the fact that it’s completely reasonable and makes total sense.

Usually something I see from more of the Fox Noise suspects, but it’s certainly not unique to them.

102 EmmaAnne  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:44:27pm

re: #98 Gus

Front page.

Right in the middle with a big picture. Where you put changes in government and resumption of hostilities and such - the big stories.

103 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:45:05pm

Dudebro pleads ‘adult’.

104 sagehen  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:45:33pm

Has anybody told Greenwald that the UK doesn’t have the 1st Amendment?

Instead they’ve got an Official Secrets Act that allows them to physically prevent reporters from reporting things they don’t want reported.

105 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:46:44pm

What kind of idiot announce they will use their partner/spouse as a secret document mule; actually does it; and then can’t understand when the government whose secrets they’re trafficking retaliates?

Jesus Christ, did Greenwald actually think that his partner had some kind of diplomatic immunity?

The cynic in me says that Greenwald, or more specifically his ego, is willing to fuck over anyone for his 15 minutes of fame. Even the man he supposedly loves.

I really, really hope Edward Snowden is taking notes right now.

I also look forward to posting this at Ars Technica and other pro-Greenwald sites. Trolling? Absolutely.

106 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:47:13pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

Dudebro pleads ‘adult’.

[Embedded content]

107 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:47:19pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

Dudebro pleads ‘adult’.

[Embedded content]

What’s with the “dudebro” meme?

108 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:48:26pm

Isn’t the Guardian a UK paper with folks near Heathrow? They didn’t bother to go over there and help out or clear things up?

109 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:49:03pm

SHOCKING!!! Thousands of Black and Hispanic kids get stopped and frisked every week.

110 sagehen  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:49:54pm

re: #107 recusancy

What’s with the “dudebro” meme?

Use a hipster voice to say “Dude!” “Bro!” Now picture in your mind the people whose voice that was.

111 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:49:56pm

re: #109 blueraven

SHOCKING!!! Thousands of Black and Hispanic kids get stopped and frisked every week.

Isn’t that tu quoque?

112 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:50:09pm
113 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:51:04pm

re: #111 recusancy

Isn’t that tu quoque?

Absolutely not…it is a fact.

114 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:51:32pm

re: #111 recusancy

Isn’t that tu quoque?

No, that’s fuqs sucque.

115 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:52:02pm

re: #110 sagehen

Use a hipster voice to say “Dude!” “Bro!” Now picture in your mind the people whose voice that was.

Ok… There are more than just the dudebro set that are concerned about the Snowden leaks and this situation.

116 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:52:16pm

DUDEBRONADO!!

117 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:52:38pm

re: #105 Mattand

Jesus Christ, did Greenwald actually think that his partner had some kind of diplomatic immunity?

Apparently, GG is under the delusion that there’s some sort of international journalistic immunity.
Once again, he would be wrong…

118 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:52:58pm
119 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:53:01pm

re: #107 recusancy

What’s with the “dudebro” meme?

It comments on mostly young white men deciding what’s the most horrific part of the ‘police state’, what the most important news story is, and how righteous are those who work on their issues.

120 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:53:20pm

re: #103 wrenchwench

It’s also quite convenient. He can discount any arguments against Greenwald and his reporting by claiming that the dissenters’ real issue is Greenwald’s (admittedly horrible) personality.

121 SidewaysQuark  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:54:04pm

OF COURSE we live in a “police state”; how else am I supposed to feel like a hero protesting against all odds with an imminent hammer crash about to fall on me in what would otherwise be a boring and mundane life?

122 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:56:48pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

It’s not Atlanta/Hartsfield.

Atlanta is a seven on the pain in the ass meter. Heathrow is a Nigel Tufnel amplifier. It goes to eleven.

123 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:56:50pm
But the last thing it will do is intimidate or deter us in any way from doing our job as journalists. Quite the contrary: it will only embolden us more to continue to report aggressively.”

So this is a good thing.

124 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:56:52pm

re: #115 recusancy

Ok… There are more than just the dudebro set that are concerned about the Snowden leaks and this situation.

Here’s some excellent dudebro mockery.

125 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 1:59:25pm

re: #122 austin_blue

Atlanta is a seven on the pain in the ass meter. Heathrow is a Nigel Tufnel amplifier. It goes to eleven.

Not sure what you’re used too, but I do a LOT of traveling and it starts/ stops at Atlanta. Compared to most others, Hartsfield is hardly a 4, let alone a 7

126 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:00:48pm

re: #122 austin_blue

Atlanta is a seven on the pain in the ass meter. Heathrow is a Nigel Tufnel amplifier. It goes to eleven.

El Paso Airport is like a small-town (old time) bus station. Very pleasant, and decorated with lizards everywhere.

127 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:01:05pm
128 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:05:23pm
129 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:06:00pm

There are lizards between the fan-like parts of the railing by the fountain. This is a waiting area at the El Paso Airport.

130 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:07:01pm
131 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:07:53pm


MY PARTNER MIGHT BE CARRYING DOCUMENTS THAT CONTAIN A KILL SWITCH TO TOPPLE THE UK SO LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!!!!

132 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:08:35pm

re: #131 Gus

[Embedded content]


MY PARTNER MIGHT BE CARRYING DOCUMENTS THAT CONTAIN A KILL SWITCH TO TOPPLE THE UK SO LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!!!!

Worst. Supervillian. Ever.

133 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:09:13pm
134 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:09:21pm

Oddly enough, it isn’t mentioned in any of the articles at The Guardian, but the New York Times reports that The Guardian paid for Greenwald’s partner’s trip: Britain Detains Partner of Reporter Tied to Leaks

WASHINGTON — The partner of Glenn Greenwald, the journalist for The Guardian who has been publishing information leaked by the former National Security Agency contractor Edward J. Snowden, was detained for nine hours by the British authorities under a counterterrorism law while on a stop in London’s Heathrow Airport during a trip from Germany to Brazil, Mr. Greenwald said Sunday.

Mr. Greenwald’s partner, David Michael Miranda, 28, is a citizen of Brazil. He had spent the previous week visiting Laura Poitras, a documentary filmmaker who has also been helping to disseminate Mr. Snowden’s leaks, in Berlin, to assist Mr. Greenwald. The trip had been paid for by The Guardian, Mr. Greenwald said, and Mr. Miranda was on his way home to Rio de Janeiro, where they live.

135 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:09:31pm

re: #128 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Psssst. Just wanna tell y’all: some people have sat in detention for 8 or 9 hours because they couldn’t pay a traffic ticket. Carry on.

And some little old ladies stood in line for 9 hours because Florida wouldn’t provide enough places to vote.

136 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:09:44pm

From some blog:

In El Paso, waiting for my next flight, I took a quick shot of the carpet. I have loved this carpet since they redid the airport many years ago. What you don’t see is the repeat of the lizards on each square throughout the entire hall - magnificent!!

137 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:10:27pm

re: #133 recusancy

Are @emptywheel, @kurafire, @quinnnorton, @jilliancyork, @mollycrabapple to name a few dudebros?

Dudettesisters

138 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:11:46pm

re: #133 recusancy

Are @emptywheel, @kurafire, @quinnnorton, @jilliancyork, @mollycrabapple to name a few dudebros?

This was retweeted by the second one. If it was retweeted with sympathy in mind, yes, that’s a dudebro.

139 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:14:00pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

Oddly enough, it isn’t mentioned in any of the articles at The Guardian, but the New York Times reports that The Guardian paid for Greenwald’s partner’s trip: Britain Detains Partner of Reporter Tied to Leaks

“Hey, Glenn, the editorial board has a great idea on how to sell more copies. Does David feel like taking a trip?”

140 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:14:17pm

Gee this guy’s ego keeps on getting bigger and bigger. I have to say having only been a journalist a couple years in college, I knew it was always about the story and not myself. For Glenn, he is the story all the time.

141 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:15:31pm

re: #125 sattv4u2

Not sure what you’re used too, but I do a LOT of traveling and it starts/ stops at Atlanta. Compared to most others, Hartsfield is hardly a 4, let alone a 7

You’re right. I was too hard on Atlanta. It’s actually pretty well set up. It’s just the sheer humanity and the distance between gates with a quick connection that’s a pain in the butt.

Least favorite American airports:

Miami (feels like it’s in the third world)

O’hare (ugh. just ugh)

JFK (old, falling apart, smells like a shoe)

LAX (will they ever finish it?)

142 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:15:46pm

re: #135 Decatur Deb

Psssst. Just wanna tell y’all: some people have sat in detention for 8 or 9 hours because they couldn’t pay a traffic ticket. Carry on.

And some little old ladies stood in line for 9 hours because Florida wouldn’t provide enough places to vote.

Yep. But hold one dudebro’s partner in an airport after said dudebro has gone on record as saying ZOMG I CAN TOPPLE GUBMINTS AND MY PARTNER HAZ TEH SAME INFO and now we’re living in tyranny. WTF.

143 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:17:41pm

So Greenwald pretty much said that his partner would have the leaked info on him. Yeah, this is totally tyrannical. Sigh. I’m as civil libertarian as the next guy but these clowns are so eager to distract from any real conversation about the issue.

144 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:18:15pm

These people seem to think they are above the law. Of course governments will try to stop the dissemination of illegally obtained National Security documents.

145 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:18:32pm

“Snowden has enough information to cause [more] harm to the U.S. government in a single minute than any other person has ever had,” Greenwald said in an interview in Rio de Janeiro with the Argentinean daily La Nacion.

“The U.S. government should be on its knees every day begging that nothing happen to Snowden, because if something does happen to him, all the information will be revealed and it could be its worst nightmare.”

146 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:18:32pm

Not a dudebro:

147 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:18:41pm

re: #141 austin_blue

the distance between gates with a quick connection

Only if you’re connecting flight is in a different terminal (they’re usually not,, as each terminal is pretty much dedicated to “an’ airline”)

And even then, there’s the tram and/ or moving walkways that goes from terminal to terminal real fast

148 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:19:33pm

re: #141 austin_blue

And to add to your list ,, Logan in Boston as well as Philly’s ((it’s more like a high end mall than an airport))

149 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:19:52pm

re: #144 blueraven

These people seem to think they are above the law. Of course governments will try to stop the dissemination of illegally obtained National Security documents.

I think some people like GG, Snowden, Assenge, etc think governments shouldn’t be allowed to have national security policies at all. In that way, they’re essentially anarchists.

150 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:19:53pm

Where’s the Tweet where GG said his partner would be carrying the secret docs?

151 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:20:19pm

Great. I picked up a crazy person.

152 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:20:45pm

David Sirota is having a TwitShitFight with Grover Norquist.

Have some popcorn.

153 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:20:52pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

I think some people like GG, Snowden, Assenge, etc think governments shouldn’t be allowed to have national security policies at all. In that way, they’re essentially anarchists.

Minarchists, at best.

All of them.

154 EmmaAnne  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:21:49pm

re: #128 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The word that keeps coming to mind is “privilege.” White, male, educated, American privilege. Other than being male I have all those kinds of privilege and yet I don’t have this attitude that I get to do things that would get most people thrown in prison, while I’m not only entitled to get off scott free, everyone should celebrate me and get enraged on my behalf if I am ever inconvenienced or questioned.

155 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:23:01pm

re: #151 Gus

Great. I picked up a crazy person.

Why. You needed a date for the night?

156 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:23:12pm



157 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:24:30pm

re: #156 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

Right and the Guardian has no agenda whatsoever. None.

158 Laertes  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:24:35pm

And now you’re cheering for government harassment of journalists. Your hate is leading you to some really dark places. This reminds me a lot of your Bush-era descent into madness.

159 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:25:04pm

re: #148 sattv4u2

And to add to your list ,, Logan in Boston as well as Philly’s ((it’s more like a high end mall than an airport))

I haven’t been through those two for at least 15 years. I’ve also been told that LaGuardia is hell in a bucket. Surprisingly, I really like what they’ve done at Newark. Good food and drink options, at least in the Continental terminal. Very comfy layover spot before hopping across the pond.

160 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:25:10pm

re: #141 austin_blue

Least favorite American airports:

Miami (feels like it’s in the third world)

O’hare (ugh. just ugh)

JFK (old, falling apart, smells like a shoe)

LAX (will they ever finish it?)

I’m not a fan of the layout for McCarran in Vegas.

OTOH, the Mineta San José airport (SJC) is pretty good. I like that one. Lots of places to eat and shop at while you wait for your flight.

161 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:25:50pm

So things would be better if Snowden didn’t blow any whistle and just kept to himself? I get that Snowden is probably full of himself and GG is an ass hat. But per Ackerman’s tweet, who cares? People can be an asshole and get something right every once and a while.

162 EmmaAnne  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:26:26pm

re: #141 austin_blue

You’re right. I was too hard on Atlanta. It’s actually pretty well set up. It’s just the sheer humanity and the distance between gates with a quick connection that’s a pain in the butt.

Least favorite American airports:

Miami (feels like it’s in the third world)

O’hare (ugh. just ugh)

JFK (old, falling apart, smells like a shoe)

LAX (will they ever finish it?)

Best airport: Denver International. It’s like the Disneyland of airports - clean, pretty, with a little train to take you from terminal to terminal while plying little songs and driving you by art installations.

163 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:27:03pm



Read the larger conversation here.

164 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:27:45pm

re: #162 EmmaAnne

Best airport: Denver International. It’s like the Disneyland of airports - clean, pretty, with a little train to take you from terminal to terminal while plying little songs and driving you by art installations.

I had a layover there last winter. Yeah not a bad airport at all. Dulles gets a bad rep but I’ve never had any problems the many times I’ve flown out of there.

165 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:27:59pm

re: #163 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]


Read the larger conversation here.

166 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:28:16pm

re: #159 austin_blue

I haven’t been through those two for at least 15 years. I’ve also been told that LaGuardia is hell in a bucket. Surprisingly, I really like what they’ve done at Newark. Good food and drink options, at least in the Continental terminal. Very comfy layover spot before hopping across the pond.

Yup. Newark is good.

167 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:29:06pm

re: #161 recusancy

So things would be better if Snowden didn’t blow any whistle and just kept to himself? I get that Snowden is probably full of himself and GG is an ass hat. But per Ackerman’s tweet, who cares? People can be an asshole and get something right every once and a while.

Probably, but I’ve yet to see anything in this story that GG, etc. got right.

Still waiting.

168 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:29:11pm

re: #158 Laertes

And now you’re cheering for government harassment of journalists. Your hate is leading you to some really dark places. This reminds me a lot of your Bush-era descent into madness.

“To hell, allegiance! vows, to the blackest devil!

169 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:29:12pm

re: #161 recusancy

So things would be better if Snowden didn’t blow any whistle and just kept to himself? I get that Snowden is probably full of himself and GG is an ass hat. But per Ackerman’s tweet, who cares? People can be an asshole and get something right every once and a while.

They have also spread a bunch of lying propaganda and misinformation. If this was straight activism followed by straight journalism you might have a point.

170 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:29:42pm

re: #161 recusancy

So things would be better if Snowden didn’t blow any whistle and just kept to himself? I get that Snowden is probably full of himself and GG is an ass hat. But per Ackerman’s tweet, who cares? People can be an asshole and get something right every once and a while.

They have some valid criticisms of the way things are, but they risked the safety of many in the way they did something about it. Part of the reason they did stupid stuff that endangered others with their concerns is that they are self-centered and self-important, so the fact that they are assholes is not irrelevant.

171 bubba zanetti  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:29:49pm

re: #162 EmmaAnne

Best airport: Denver International. It’s like the Disneyland of airports - clean, pretty, with a little train to take you from terminal to terminal while plying little songs and driving you by art installations.

Excusing the fact they actually built it in Kansas for tax reasons (the border signs were removed off of I70 and Peña Blvd so you wouldn’t notice), it has some really cool Harry Potter bathrooms.

172 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:30:06pm

re: #161 recusancy

So things would be better if Snowden didn’t blow any whistle and just kept to himself? I get that Snowden is probably full of himself and GG is an ass hat. But per Ackerman’s tweet, who cares? People can be an asshole and get something right every once and a while.

Assuming that Snowden actually blew a valid whistle you might have a point. I think that’s still up in the air.

Beyond that you get into “Falcon and the Snowman” territory where someone’s response to not liking something about their country’s security apparatus is to take a pile of classified documents and turn them over to a foreign government. And from there it blooms into the Greenwald circus.

173 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:31:18pm
174 EmmaAnne  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:32:04pm

re: #172 Feline Fearless Leader

Assuming that Snowden actually blew a valid whistle you might have a point. I think that’s still up in the air.

Beyond that you get into “Falcon and the Snowman” territory where someone’s response to not liking something about their country’s security apparatus is to take a pile of classified documents and turn them over to a foreign government. And from there it blooms into the Greenwald circus.

I was just thinking about that movie. Remember when the spy’s friend (Snowman) was caught by the Mexicans? That is what I think of when I think of thuggish governments detaining people.

175 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:32:15pm

re: #162 EmmaAnne

Best airport: Denver International. It’s like the Disneyland of airports - clean, pretty, with a little train to take you from terminal to terminal while plying little songs and driving you by art installations.

Yeah,,, cept it’s about 100-200 miles outside of Denver!!!
// (kinda)

176 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:32:28pm

re: #162 EmmaAnne

Best airport: Denver International. It’s like the Disneyland of airports - clean, pretty, with a little train to take you from terminal to terminal while plying little songs and driving you by art installations.

I can vouch for that; I’ve been through DIA twice in the past seven years flying on Frontier and it was nice and clean (and busy, too).

177 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:33:09pm

re: #158 Laertes

And now you’re cheering for government harassment of journalists. Your hate is leading you to some really dark places. This reminds me a lot of your Bush-era descent into madness.

Oh, the humanity!

178 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:33:14pm
179 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:33:28pm

re: #162 EmmaAnne

Best airport: Denver International. It’s like the Disneyland of airports - clean, pretty, with a little train to take you from terminal to terminal while plying little songs and driving you by art installations.

I like Denver, Indy and San Diego airports. The airport in Amsterdam is pretty awesome.

180 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:33:57pm

re: #165 recusancy

[Embedded content]

Again, maybe people chose the wrong response to someone who himself made the wrong response to another wrong response, and so on. But the actions of Greenwald and Snowden are, in my opinion, the ones that put other lives at risk. I don’t think the lives of Greenwald and Snowden are themselves at risk, though they like to imply it is so, because it shrouds them in the desperation they need to excuse radical acts.

181 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:33:58pm

Well to continue on the subject of airports, I’ll bring up airlines.
Best experience: British Airwaves: Good movie selection, served me wine no questions asked despite being under 21

Worst: Spirit Airlines: Lengthy delays and they lost our luggage.

182 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:34:03pm

re: #154 EmmaAnne

I don’t think Glennlandia’s privilege brushed off on David Miranda as much as he thought it would.

183 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:34:24pm

re: #171 bubba zanetti

Excusing the fact they actually built it in Kansas for tax reasons (the border signs were removed off of I70 and Peña Blvd so you wouldn’t notice), it has some really cool Harry Potter bathrooms.

What’s the basis of your claim DIA is actually in Kansas?

184 bubba zanetti  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:35:26pm

re: #183 Feline Fearless Leader

What’s the basis of your claim DIA is actually in Kansas?

It’s funny every time.

(see #175)

185 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:35:37pm

re: #176 AlexRogan

I can vouch for that; I’ve been through DIA twice in the past seven years flying on Frontier and it was nice and clean (and busy, too).

Someone here at work has a phone ringtone that sounds just like the one the shuttle train uses right before it arrives at a station.

186 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:35:54pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

Well to continue on the subject of airports, I’ll bring up airlines.
Best experience: British Airwaves: Good movie selection, served me wine no questions asked despite being under 21

Worst: Spirit Airwaves: Lengthy delays and they lost our luggage.

Heh. Air France served me wine at 15, no questions asked, once we hit international waters. It was awesome. And my mother wasn’t concerned, amazingly enough. She chalked it up to a cultural thing and shrugged.

187 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:36:40pm

re: #184 bubba zanetti

It’s funny every time.

Ah. Missing “/”. Now I understand.

188 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:36:58pm

re: #183 Feline Fearless Leader

What’s the basis of your claim DIA is actually in Kansas?

If you have business in Denver, as long as you’re on the northeast outskirts of the city you can get to the airport in 20-30 minutes time. get closer to the center of town or worse, out by Littleton or Englewood, plan on a LOT of time to get there

189 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:37:14pm

re: #179 A Man for all Seasons

I like Denver, Indy and San Diego airports. The airport in Amsterdam is pretty awesome.

Schiphol is amazing. I swear you can buy *anything* there. And the security is at the individual gates, so you can leave your stuff and go for a wander. Love it.

190 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:38:04pm

re: #186 Lidane

Heh. Air France served me wine at 15, no questions asked, once we hit international waters. It was awesome. And my mother wasn’t concerned, amazingly enough. She chalked it up to a cultural thing and shrugged.

It was my first time travelling internationally. Was just so glad it was a no questions asked sort of thing. But as I said, the movie selection was great too. You want a long but good movie on your flight so I killed three hours alone by watching the first Godfather.

191 bubba zanetti  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:38:08pm

re: #187 Feline Fearless Leader

Ah. Missing “/”. Now I understand.

Well, I was deadly serious about the Harry Potter bathroom.

192 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:40:22pm

To recap: Greenwald’s partner was on a trip financed by the Guardian to meet with Laura Poitras to help with disseminating the leaks.

193 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:40:57pm

David was unable to call me because his phone and laptop are now with UK authorities. So I don’t yet know what they told him. But the Guardian’s lawyer was able to speak with him immediately upon his release, and told me that, while a bit distressed from the ordeal, he was in very good spirits and quite defiant, and he asked the lawyer to convey that defiance to me. I already share it, as I’m certain US and UK authorities will soon see.

Threat.

194 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:41:16pm

re: #188 sattv4u2

That’s because of the constant construction and repair to roads.

This is why car-centered cities are idiotic. It snarls everything up.

195 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:41:55pm

re: #186 Lidane

Heh. Air France served me wine at 15, no questions asked, once we hit international waters. It was awesome. And my mother wasn’t concerned, amazingly enough. She chalked it up to a cultural thing and shrugged.

Daughter One lived in Italy from 14-17. On our flight back (US carrier) the attendant asked what she wanted to drink.

Dau1: “Bailey’s over ice, please.”
Attendant: “Not on my airplane.”

196 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:42:47pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

To recap: Greenwald’s partner was on a trip financed by the Guardian to meet with Laura Poitras to help with disseminating the leaks.

But detaining the guy and asking him questions about his trip is tyranny.

Got it.

////

197 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:43:22pm

re: #194 ProTARDISLiberal

That’s because of the constant construction and repair to roads.

This is why car-centered cities are idiotic. It snarls everything up.

Not really. I go from DIA to our facility on Rte 25 (87) often and i rarely see any construction

198 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:44:32pm

re: #161 recusancy

So things would be better if Snowden didn’t blow any whistle and just kept to himself? I get that Snowden is probably full of himself and GG is an ass hat. But per Ackerman’s tweet, who cares? People can be an asshole and get something right every once and a while.

I think things would be better, yeah. I think that what Snowden and Greenwald have done is mainly confuse people as to what the actual state of affairs are, and increase anti-government sentiment.

I think that as 4th amendment violations go, the NSA stuff is very insignificant compared to stuff like the systemic racism in our justice system. The nine hours hold being turned into some gigantic piece of intimidation is kind of foolish compared to actual harm that happens to people every day.

199 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:44:36pm

Anybody have the link to where GG said his partner has some of the leaked info?

200 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:44:56pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

To recap: Greenwald’s partner was on a trip financed by the Guardian to meet with Laura Poitras to help with disseminating the leaks.

“My partner is an info mule who was arriving after staying with a source of illicit info. What right did they have to stop and equation him? Fascism!”

I’d say The GG is a fool if he believes that shit.

201 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:45:25pm

re: #195 Decatur Deb

Daughter One lived in Italy from 14-17. On our flight back (US carrier) the attendant asked what she wanted to drink.

Dau1: “Bailey’s over ice, please.”
Attendant: “Not on my airplane.”

Biggest moment of culture shock for me was having been in the army for several years and having done a tour in Germany then coming back to the US one week prior to my 21st birthday. So I got told in Junction City Kansas (the gate city for Ft Riley) that I couldn’t have wine with my meal at a restaurant.

202 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:46:28pm

re: #198 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think things would be better, yeah. I think that what Snowden and Greenwald have done is mainly confuse people as to what the actual state of affairs are, and increase anti-government sentiment.

I think that as 4th amendment violations go, the NSA stuff is very insignificant compared to stuff like the systemic racism in our justice system. The nine hours hold being turned into some gigantic piece of intimidation is kind of foolish compared to actual harm that happens to people every day.

Especially when you read stories about police going to the wrong homes and actually killing innocent people on mistaken warrants. It’s frustrating because we do need to have a conversation about civil liberties in this country but GG and Snowden as you say confuse people to actual reality and care more about increasing anti-government sentiment than finding real solutions.

203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:46:55pm

Basically, I don’t think people are really more informed after these leaks, and a lot of the reason for that is the way that Greenwald and the Guardian have presented the information.

204 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:47:00pm

re: #200 austin_blue

“My partner is an info mule who was arriving after staying with a source of illicit info. What right did they have to stop and equation him? Fascism!”

I’d say The GG is a fool if he believes that shit.

I don’t think Greenwald believes it, but he knows his cultish followers will.

205 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:47:26pm

re: #193 Gus

What does the U.S. have to do with anything? Because Glenn wants to believe it’s true?

206 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:47:28pm

re: #200 austin_blue

“My partner is an info mule who was arriving after staying with a source of illicit info. What right did they have to stop and equation him? Fascism!”

I’d say The GG is a fool if he believes that shit.

He doesn’t but he knows a lot of other people will.

207 ObserverArt  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:47:29pm

The Persecution of Glenn Greenwald

By Glenn Greenwald

Buy it!

208 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:47:53pm

re: #201 William Barnett-Lewis

Biggest moment of culture shock for me was having been in the army for several years and having done a tour in Germany then coming back to the US one week prior to my 21st birthday. So I got told in Junction City Kansas (the gate city for Ft Riley) that I couldn’t have wine with my meal at a restaurant.

Heh. After each of our tours I’d spent a month or so reaching into my wallet for ration card and ID when I went to Walmart or the movies.

209 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:47:56pm

re: #199 recusancy

Anybody have the link to where GG said his partner has some of the leaked info?

“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in Rio via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald said. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”

thedailybeast.com

210 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:48:45pm

re: #205 Minor_L

What does the U.S. have to do with anything? Because Glenn wants to believe it’s true?

More US hate than UK. Plus spreading collaborative conspiracies. He’s assuming the UK doesn’t do its own thing.

211 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:49:06pm

re: #198 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think things would be better, yeah. I think that what Snowden and Greenwald have done is mainly confuse people as to what the actual state of affairs are, and increase anti-government sentiment

“Now Rand Paul is our only hope.”

212 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:49:12pm

re: #203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Basically, I don’t think people are really more informed after these leaks, and a lot of the reason for that is the way that Greenwald and the Guardian have presented the information.

People are actually much more badly misinformed. The non-stop hyperbole and distortions about NSA surveillance have created a firestorm of outrage based on ignorance.

When this started I actually said I hoped that something good would come of it, and people would start to seriously examine the very real issues of privacy it raises.

It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

213 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:49:13pm

re: #201 William Barnett-Lewis

Biggest moment of culture shock for me was having been in the army for several years and having done a tour in Germany then coming back to the US one week prior to my 21st birthday. So I got told in Junction City Kansas (the gate city for Ft Riley) that I couldn’t have wine with my meal at a restaurant.

I understand a lot of the reasoning behind making the drinking age 21, but honestly, once someone can vote, enter into a legal contract, and enlist in the military, telling them they can’t buy a beer for three more years seems ridiculous.

214 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:49:21pm

re: #209 Gus

“When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in Rio via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald said. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”

thedailybeast.com

So he didn’t send him anything?

215 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:49:34pm

I think the dudebros would be far less “outraged” if a Republican were President, because they wouldn’t have to try so hard to prove their purity bona fides.

Edited to change “probe” to “prove.”

216 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:49:46pm

I’ve never commented here before and this probably won’t get read this far down. Still, every time I hear someone react as if it’s a unique injustice that’s never happened before to be stopped at an airport, I want to shout, “What rock are you living under.”

The first time I went to Europe, way before the “War on Terror”, back in 1991 or ‘92, my friend and I were detained in Vienna. We were taken to a back room where I was given a very strange interview and my friend was taken elsewhere where she was strip searched. Weirdly, when we transferred at Frankfurt, we were taken aside again. This time it wasn’t as elaborate and only our bags were searched, but we were wondering what was up. My friend thought that she had the misfortune to resemble someone else because the seemed to be more interested in her.

For us, personally, it was inconvenient, upsetting and frankly freaky. For the rest of the world, it was totally meaningless. Anyone who follows the news knows that one has next to no rights when crossing borders. Furthermore, I’m probably giving away my age here, but there was a time when there was little security getting on planes. Then there were a series of air jackings. Things changed. Personally, I don’t like those changes, but I blame the terrorists and hi-jackers more than the governments. Also, importantly, there’s not something specially evil when the U.S. government does these things. All governments do them.

217 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:50:35pm

re: #214 recusancy

So he didn’t send him anything?

He didn’t send anything from Hong Kong, months ago. But he lives with the guy. Do the math.

218 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:50:52pm

re: #212 Charles Johnson

People are actually much more badly misinformed. The non-stop hyperbole and distortions about NSA surveillance have created a firestorm of outrage based on ignorance.

When this started I actually said I hope that something good would come of it, and people would start to seriously examine the very real issues of privacy it raises.

It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

It’s unfortunate because I think most of us here on LGF agree that this conversation needs to be held but you’re absolutely right Charles, it’s created a bunch of hyperbole and distortions about the programs and resulted in even more ignorance about the programs.

219 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:51:20pm

re: #214 recusancy

So he didn’t send him anything?

He clearly show intent there. I thought they both met up again in their Brazil home? Why send?

220 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:52:03pm

re: #216 J A P

I got detained for five hours entering Canada because I was going to see my ex-girlfriend, I didn’t have a lot of money on me, and I had a one-way ticket, since I was going to go back on the train with her and she didn’t exactly know when she was leaving.

They asked me some really random questions. They seemed most puzzled by me going to visit an ex-girlfriend.

221 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:52:08pm

re: #217 Charles Johnson

He didn’t send anything from Hong Kong, months ago. But he lives with the guy. Do the math.

So you’re just speculating? And why would he give him something when he’d be such an obvious person to check if you’re the authorities?

222 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:52:14pm

re: #214 recusancy

So he didn’t send him anything?

Perhaps not, but it’s hard to come up with a more ironclad description of probable cause.

If you’re holding the UK Customs folks to a standard that requires their search to have been effective, post facto, in order for the search to have been justified in the first place, then you’re holding them to a much much stricter standard than any other sort of law enforcement.

223 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:52:41pm

re: #214 recusancy

So he didn’t send him anything?

How the hell would we know? The British were reasonable in their assumption that he was a courier. If GG was concerned for his family, he should have kept him out of the action.

224 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:53:14pm

For example, Greenwald et al. have just released the information about the audits— and misreported on it. If they wanted to have an honest conversation, why didn’t they release that information two months ago? What possible reason could there be, journalistically, for keeping that for two months?

225 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:53:33pm

re: #220 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

They asked me some really random questions. They seemed most puzzled by me going to visit an ex-girlfriend.

(high five)

When the customs agent asks if you’re getting back together and you just close your eyes and sigh deeply and say “honestly I have no idea”, this seems to convince them you’re not making it up.

226 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:53:35pm

Note. Last I checked David Miranda isn’t a journalist.

227 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:54:04pm

Maybe “DomMascHry31” should pay his judgments and back taxes.

Glenn Greenwald Takes His Turn in the Spotlight

gawker.com

“The Daily News story also uncovered Greenwald’s past and present tax problems, including some $126,000 in open judgements and liens against him going back to 2000, including an active $85,000 lien against him from the IRS. “We’re negotiating over payment plans,” Greenwald said.”

Yeah, I’ll bet. The Snowden theft was supposed to make him rich, no doubt.

228 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:54:30pm

re: #226 Gus

Note. Last I checked David Miranda isn’t a journalist.

Also not a terrorist.

229 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:55:25pm

re: #228 recusancy

Also not a terrorist.

That’s up to UK LE.

230 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:55:41pm

re: #221 recusancy

So you’re just speculating? And why would he give him something when he’d be such an obvious person to check if you’re the authorities?

There’s a reason why such a person is obvious, though. You have to question the obvious people if you’re law enforcement, that’s part of why it’s a boring job.

I really am not getting the outrage about this. Journalists aren’t diplomats, they’ve never been treated like diplomats, and suddenly they seem to be declaring themselves diplomats, and their extended family to be diplomats as well.

231 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:55:50pm

re: #158 Laertes

No, Mr. Brand-New, Single-Issue-Commenter, I see no one here “cheering for government harassment of journalists”, I see “journalists” like Greenwald and Poitras playing fast and loose with both the ethical conventions of their chosen profession and the law.

As a matter of fact, it would not surprise me that Greenwald and the Guardian arranged Miranda’s trip specifically to force something like this happen, in order to keep this thing rolling and Greenwald in the spotlight.

Somewhere in Russia, Edward Snowden has to be feeling awful lonely.

232 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:55:58pm

re: #228 recusancy

Also not a terrorist.

So your complaint is… that the law is misnamed compared to the powers and justifications it implies?

Get in line. I think USA PATRIOT ACT has first dibs.

233 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:56:10pm

re: #228 recusancy

Also not a terrorist.

There were 63,902 Schedule 7 stops in the UK from 2011-2012. 36% are Asian. That would be a UK definition of Asian.

So all 63,902 were terrorists?

234 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:56:37pm

re: #227 Justanotherhuman

Ha! No wonder he hates the USG. Axe to grind. (Maybe he thinks libertarians don’t have to pay taxes.)

235 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:56:48pm

re: #216 J A P

I’ve never commented here before and this probably won’t get read this far down. Still, every time I hear someone react as if it’s a unique injustice that’s never happened before to be stopped at an airport, I want to shout, “What rock are you living under.”

The first time I went to Europe, way before the “War on Terror”, back in 1991 or ‘92, my friend and I were detained in Vienna. We were taken to a back room where I was given a very strange interview and my friend was taken elsewhere where she was strip searched. Weirdly, when we transferred at Frankfurt, we were taken aside again. This time it wasn’t as elaborate and only our bags were searched, but we were wondering what was up. My friend thought that she had the misfortune to resemble someone else because the seemed to be more interested in her.

For us, personally, it was inconvenient, upsetting and frankly freaky. For the rest of the world, it was totally meaningless. Anyone who follows the news knows that one has next to no rights when crossing borders. Furthermore, I’m probably giving away my age here, but there was a time when there was little security getting on planes. Then there were a series of air jackings. Things changed. Personally, I don’t like those changes, but I blame the terrorists and hi-jackers more than the governments. Also, importantly, there’s not something specially evil when the U.S. government does these things. All governments do them.

For a first post, that was a dandy! Welcome hatchling, good to have you here.

236 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:57:28pm

re: #232 erik_t

So your complaint is… that the law is misnamed compared to the powers and justifications it implies?

Get in line. I think USA PATRIOT ACT has first dibs.

That we can agree on.

237 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:57:59pm

re: #216 J A P

Welcome Hatchling! Thank you for a good first post.

238 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:58:03pm

re: #228 recusancy

Also not a terrorist.

And that’s a perfectly legitimate complaint: that anti-terrorism statues are uses for non-terrorism related purposes. However, given that what we’re talking about is files that, among other things, detail anti-terrorism efforts by intelligence agencies, there obviously is an argument to be made for the applicability of even a stricter form of antiterrorism law.

239 Minor_L  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:58:30pm

The UK law in question seems pretty horrible. THANKS OBAMA.

240 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:59:14pm

The UK’s terrorism laws were enacted at a time when the IRA was launching frequent horrific bombing attacks in the heart of London, by the way. If they seem extreme, and they do, it may be because they were put in place to address these monstrous acts.

241 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:59:21pm

re: #216 J A P

Depends on where you had been. If you were young, you might have been suspected of being drug mules. Thus, the strip search of your girlfriend.

242 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 2:59:31pm

The UK government probably has more legitimate anti-terrorism interest in stopping Greenwald’s partner than in stopping 50% of the Pakistani et al. people they did.

243 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:00:47pm
244 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:02:01pm

I guess @harper is a dudebro too.

245 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:02:41pm

re: #243 Gus

“I don’t have to open my bags for you! I am a nonpoor male of a non-discriminated racial group and I am in a relationship with a guy who pretends to be a journalist!”

246 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:02:44pm

re: #240 Charles Johnson

The UK’s terrorism laws were enacted at a time when the IRA was launching frequent horrific bombing attacks in the heart of London, by the way. If they seem extreme, and they do, it may be because they were put in place to address these monstrous acts.

And despite their “Hip,hip, We don’t carry guns” image, the Irish will tell you that British security forces and LE make our worst look like Girl Guides.

247 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:02:45pm

Extraordinary anti terror measures being used for anything but anti terror activity is one of the best reasons to sunset the P.A. Talk about a snowball… The more extraordinary these laws are, the stricter the boundaries of these laws should be. Any of that seen unreasonable?

248 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:02:48pm

re: #243 Gus

Okay. Instead strip down to your birthday suit. //

249 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:05:01pm

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

250 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:05:50pm

re: #244 recusancy

I guess @harper is a dudebro too.

Why do you say that? Is it this?

@harper

I am pretty awesome.

If not, can you be more specific? I don’t want to read his whole timeline just to find out you’re being passive-aggressive or something.

251 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:06:13pm

re: #249 recusancy

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

Then what is it?

252 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:07:26pm

re: #249 recusancy

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

No, that actually is exactly why many of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro-Snowden (like hell I’ll call him a whistleblower) side of this.

The reporting from Wired, Ars Technica, etc etc has been absolutely putrid, completely uncritical (in a critical-thinking) sense and positively rife with absolute falsehoods.

253 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:09:53pm

re: #188 sattv4u2

If you have business in Denver, as long as you’re on the northeast outskirts of the city you can get to the airport in 20-30 minutes time. get closer to the center of town or worse, out by Littleton or Englewood, plan on a LOT of time to get there

When I have been going in or out of DIA I’ve generally been headed out west (Craig). A few times up to Fort Collins, and once or twice into downtown or over towards the site of the old airport.

Been pretty good about giving myself time to get to the airport and returning the rental car.

254 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:09:54pm

Off to pedal the damn exercise bike. The monsoon has hold of us again. BBL

255 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:10:10pm
256 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:11:04pm

re: #249 recusancy

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

OK, so what is that reason?

You do realize that I’ve been saying from the beginning that the NSA and the FISC need much more transparency, right?

257 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:13:23pm

re: #250 wrenchwench

Why do you say that? Is it this?

If not, can you be more specific? I don’t want to read his whole timeline just to find out you’re being passive-aggressive or something.

Well you’d have to ask each one but there’s a mindset that the web is and should be open. That communication should not be monitored and stored indiscriminately. There should be a right to privacy.

258 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:13:26pm

re: #255 Charles Johnson

One thing that has surprised me about this whole situation is how fly-by-night the Guardian has been. I am a small-world-minded American and really didn’t have a lot of knowledge of the operations of the British press outside the BBC, but I assumed the Guardian would be considerably less shady than, say, the Daily Mail. But lo and behold, that’s pretty much how they’ve acted.

I’ll excuse a once-off secret correction as a screwup or oversight, but it’s been very clear that the Guardian has no interest in promoting a (pardon the poisoned phrase) fair and balanced look at the issue. They’re pumping Greenwald just as hard as Greenwald has been pumping Snowden, and that’s really unfortunate.

259 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:14:39pm

re: #257 recusancy

Well you’d have to ask each one but there’s a mindset that the web is and should be open. That communication should not be monitored and stored indiscriminately. There should be a right to privacy.

And that’s a sad and hilarious standpoint for them to take, given how the Internet is actually constructed from a very basic physical-layer and design-philosophy standpoint.

260 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:15:09pm

re: #256 Charles Johnson

OK, so what is that reason?

You do realize that I’ve been saying from the beginning that the NSA and the FISC need much more transparency, right?

Ok. But fuck all has been done about it until Snowden leaked this stuff. It was a necessary act. Only now are we actually talking about it and Obama is saying he’ll actually do something (pretending like he was planning too all along).

261 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:16:35pm

re: #260 recusancy

Ok. But fuck all has been done about it until Snowden leaked this stuff. It was a necessary act. Only now are we actually talking about it and Obama is saying he’ll actually do something (pretending like he was planning too all along).

Obama was planning it all along, and more than that, Obama has taken many steps to increase oversight of the NSA, long before Greenwald started this shit.

Just because you weren’t paying attention at the time doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

262 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:17:13pm

re: #261 Charles Johnson

Obama was planning it all along, and more than that, Obama has taken many steps to increase oversight of the NSA, long before Greenwald started this shit.

Just because you weren’t paying attention at the time doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Obama was planning it all along?

263 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:17:23pm

re: #105 Mattand

What kind of idiot announce they will use their partner/spouse as a secret document mule; actually does it; and then can’t understand when the government whose secrets they’re trafficking retaliates?

Jesus Christ, did Greenwald actually think that his partner had some kind of diplomatic immunity?

The cynic in me says that Greenwald, or more specifically his ego, is willing to fuck over anyone for his 15 minutes of fame. Even the man he supposedly loves.

I really, really hope Edward Snowden is taking notes right now.

I also look forward to posting this at Ars Technica and other pro-Greenwald sites. Trolling? Absolutely.

It took a couple of hours, but Ars finally got their story up on this:

Partner of The Guardian’s NSA leaks reporter is detained for 9 hours at airport

Go get ‘em, tiger…

264 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:17:25pm

re: #246 Decatur Deb

And despite their “Hip,hip, We don’t carry guns” image, the Irish will tell you that British security forces and LE make our worst look like Girl Guides.

en.wikipedia.org

265 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:19:10pm

re: #221 recusancy

So you’re just speculating? And why would he give him something when he’d be such an obvious person to check if you’re the authorities?

maybe because GG thinks that, in the international spy and man of mystery department, he’s even bigger and smarter than James Bond and any government?

266 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:20:06pm

re: #262 recusancy

Obama was planning it all along?

Yes.

267 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:20:11pm

re: #226 Gus

Note. Last I checked David Miranda isn’t a journalist.

and neither is GG…

268 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:20:31pm

re: #260 recusancy

(pretending like he was planning too all along)

With his little time machine.

Thursday, May 24, 2012 07:37 AM MST
Warrantless spying fight
Obama officials demand full, reform-free renewal of the once-controversial power to eavesdrop without warrants
By Glenn Greenwald

269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:21:27pm

re: #249 recusancy

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

Instead of stating that, maybe you could state that reason?

270 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:21:56pm

re: #231 AlexRogan

No, Mr. Brand-New, Single-Issue-Commenter, I see no one here “cheering for government harassment of journalists”, I see “journalists” like Greenwald and Poitras playing fast and loose with both the ethical conventions of their chosen profession and the law.

As a matter of fact, it would not surprise me that Greenwald and the Guardian arranged Miranda’s trip specifically to force something like this happen, in order to keep this thing rolling and Greenwald in the spotlight.

Somewhere in Russia, Edward Snowden has to be feeling awful lonely.

Somewhere in Russia, Edward Snowden is thinking “nine hours detention at Heathrow???? Stop whining….”

271 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:21:57pm

re: #268 wrenchwench

With his little time machine.

Note the byline, ‘recusancy’.

272 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:22:23pm

re: #221 recusancy

So you’re just speculating? And why would he give him something when he’d be such an obvious person to check if you’re the authorities?

Come on, man. Greenwald said very clearly that he intended to give his partner copies of the leaked documents. Yeah, I’m speculating that he probably did what he said he intended to do.

273 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:22:24pm

re: #260 recusancy

Ok. But fuck all has been done about it until Snowden leaked this stuff..

See, this is what I’m talking about. The issue is important to you, but you don’t actually know what was done— that Obama increased oversight on the NSA.

274 GlutenFreeJesus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:22:38pm

re: #268 wrenchwench

With his little time machine.

Why you gotta spoil the fun?

275 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:22:46pm

re: #268 wrenchwench

With his little time machine.

Thank you for making my point.

276 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:23:06pm

re: #275 recusancy

Thank you for making my point.

Which was what?

277 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:23:30pm

re: #273 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

See, this is what I’m talking about. The issue is important to you, but you don’t actually know what was done— that Obama increased oversight on the NSA.

Could you please educate me to what has been done?

278 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:23:30pm

re: #275 recusancy

Thank you for making my point.

Greenwald may have, but I didn’t.

279 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:23:57pm

“And by the power vested in me, I hereby deputize you, David Miranda, a journalist. Now get on that plane to Berlin.” — The Greenwald

280 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:25:24pm

re: #247 Political Atheist

Extraordinary anti terror measures being used for anything but anti terror activity is one of the best reasons to sunset the P.A. Talk about a snowball… The more extraordinary these laws are, the stricter the boundaries of these laws should be. Any of that seen unreasonable?

There’s a better chance of a Houston/Chicago World Series this year than there ever will be of the Patriot Act being overturned and/or set to pasture.

281 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:25:28pm
282 GlutenFreeJesus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:25:46pm

re: #249 recusancy

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

Whistleblower applies to someone exposing illegal activities.

283 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:26:21pm
November 27, 2012, 4:15 PM

Obama Signs Whistleblower Protection Bill into Law

Of course, ‘whistleblower’ must be defined.

284 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:28:34pm

re: #283 wrenchwench

Of course, ‘whistleblower’ must be defined.

Like stealing a boatload of classified and top secret documents then high tailing it to Honk Kong and eventually settling in Russia an hiring a former KGB agent as a lawyer whistleblower?

285 simoom  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:29:35pm

re: #260 recusancy

Ok. But fuck all has been done about it until Snowden leaked this stuff. It was a necessary act. Only now are we actually talking about it and Obama is saying he’ll actually do something (pretending like he was planning too all along).

The ends justify the means I suppose? The problem is, the public is demanding action based on mostly falsehoods and conspiracy theories. I’m all for scaling back some of the security theater that has been added over the last decade, but the last thing I want to see is reckless legislation to appease public fervor, taking stabs at phantom problems. If our foreign intelligence capabilities are hobbled, and we’re hit again in some spectacular fashion, all these sometimes-civil-libertarians will be in for a huge wake-up call when the public again demands massive new national security programs.

286 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:30:06pm

re: #269 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m no tech guy, but I’d throw this in the mix.
We now have the fringe undermining even the rational concerns by association. Want to annoy a centrist? Just let the fringe kick up so much dust he or she can’t hear or see the nearby smart one trying to speak a pont.

IMO-The arguments for this activity are a now reasonably demonstrated lack of abuse via oversight and the clear importance in anti terror efforts. Fine. Cool. Great stuff. No sarc. But what is still left unanswered is the mission creep of these tools into other kinds of enforcement. And potential abuse on up into the mid to long term future. That’s why our best known anti terror law has a sunset clause, which IMO is overdue. A point on which good people can differ of course.

“So far so good” is a good short term argument that thins in by the distance of any forecast. It also sums up the argument to keep the PA & related agencies running as is.

287 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:30:17pm

re: #284 Gus

Like stealing a boatload of classified and top secret documents then high tailing it to Honk Kong and eventually settling in Russia an hiring a former KGB agent as a lawyer whistleblower?

Depends. Where’s Honk Kong?

/lol

288 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:32:12pm

re: #282 efuseakay

Whistleblower applies to someone exposing illegal activities.

Wait, no. It also applies to an exposure of abuses despite the existing law. Or within it. Let’s not let Snowden undermine the whistleblowers place in democracy. This is a person trying to steal the term. Caught, theft failed IMO.

289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:32:19pm

re: #277 recusancy

Could you please educate me to what has been done?

Sure. But I’d ask you to ask yourself why you didn’t already know this.

online.wsj.com

A National Security Agency eavesdropping program exceeded legal limits intended to safeguard privacy, and officials have taken steps to bring the intercepts program into compliance, the Justice Department said Wednesday.

The department, in a statement, said problems with the NSA program were uncovered as the Justice Department and National Security Agency were conducting routine oversight of intelligence activities to ensure compliance with laws and court orders.

Attorney General Eric Holder has sought court approval to renew the NSA program after instituting new safeguards.

290 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:32:39pm
291 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:32:51pm
292 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:33:00pm

Lovely.

293 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:34:11pm

re: #289 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Sure. But I’d ask you to ask yourself why you didn’t already know this.

It’s easier to bitch than to research.

294 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:34:41pm
295 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:34:52pm

re: #292 Charles Johnson

Lovely.

[Embedded content]

There are definitely worse things than a dudebro. There are fucking asshole misogynistic bigots, for example.

296 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:35:09pm

God, whoever runs the Wikileaks twitter feed makes Greenbeck himself look like a fucking cloistered nun.

ALL YOU DO IS RUN A GLORIFIED DOCUMENT-NAPSTER. WE ARE ALL VERY, VERY IMPRESSED.

297 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:35:34pm

re: #292 Charles Johnson

So basically, Raimondo thinks women are expendable.

298 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:36:44pm

re: #277 recusancy

Could you please educate me to what has been done?

Do you have to work hard at being this dense and clueless?
Or do you just get all of your news/information from a small and increasingly paranoid group of sources?

299 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:36:44pm

re: #292 Charles Johnson

Lovely.

[Embedded content]

SHUT THE FUCK UP BOTH OF YOU.

300 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:37:18pm

re: #297 Lidane

So basically, Raimondo thinks women are expendable.

Raimondo is an asshole. This has been open knowledge for years and years.

301 wrenchwench  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:37:43pm

bbl

302 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:38:28pm

re: #300 Vicious Babushka

One of the first people banned from LGF, for absolutely blatant antisemitism. The guy is a fucking first class loon.

303 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:39:35pm

re: #300 Vicious Babushka

Raimondo is an asshole. This has been open knowledge for years and years.

I can see that. The fact that he’s “willing to sacrifice his pro-choice views” for some whitey dudebro civil libertarian ideal tells me he doesn’t actually give a shit about civil liberties. He just doesn’t want to be inconvenienced at the airport.

304 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:39:48pm

re: #294 Vicious Babushka

Love to trade ya some good California BBQ beef for some of your baked goodies. Of course there are those thousands of miles between us… And my bbq is not kosher. Darn that bread looks good.

305 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:40:23pm

OUTRAGE!

306 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:40:31pm

re: #298 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do you have to work hard at being this dense and clueless?
Or do you just get all of your news/information from a small and increasingly paranoid group of sources?

Hey, I really don’t blame anyone from being misinformed. The journalism on this subject has been utter crap.

307 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:42:27pm

re: #292 Charles Johnson

Lovely.

[Embedded content]

308 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:43:36pm
309 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:45:47pm

I appreciate being called dense. Always helpful in a civil discussion.

310 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:46:05pm

re: #306 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Hey, I really don’t blame anyone from being misinformed. The journalism on this subject has been utter crap.

true, but recusancy’s lack of curiosity to investigate outside a paranoid echo chamber and to come here demanding explanations is really quite stunning.

311 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:46:37pm

re: #298 Backwoods_Sleuth

Dunno about you but between work, chatting about this stuff, I have to pick and choose what I can read up on. I put time in on this issue but say Egypt these days and especially the hashtag black lady feminism thing? I’m lost.

312 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:47:11pm
313 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:47:50pm

re: #310 Backwoods_Sleuth

true, but recusancy’s lack of curiosity to investigate outside a paranoid echo chamber and to come here demanding explanations is really quite stunning.

Yup.

314 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:48:07pm
315 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:49:39pm

re: #312 Eclectic Cyborg

That is beyond evil right there. That letter just advocated eugenics.

316 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:49:44pm

re: #133 recusancy

Cannonfire and some FPer’s at Balloon Juice.

317 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:51:05pm

re: #220 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

My ex is Canadian and I lived there a number of years, so I could tell a lot of stories about how Canadians do the same things. Normally, I don’t because it usually comes out sounding as if I’m defending an action I don’t like when all I want to say is that the U.S. government doesn’t represent some unique form of evil that’s never before been seen on earth. I think of that attitude as an inverted form of American Exceptionalism.

There is one incident which occurred while I was living in Canada which is very relevant to the discussion about Snowden. Reported on the radio while I was living there was an incident in which a woman was investigated by the federal police for saying over the phone that he son had “bombed” in a play. As a result it came out that the Canadian government was using an automated system to listen in to Canadian’s phone call and search for certain suspicious words. This isn’t the metadata; this is the content. The government was forced to abandon the program, but it wasn’t illegal because they don’t have a 4th amendment. Yet I don’t see anyone saying that Canada is the world’s most oppressive government because of this.

I’ve tried to find a source on the internet to back me up on this, but it occurred around 1997, or ‘96, so I think I’d need to travel to Montreal and look at old newspapers in a library. If anyone has a link about this, I’d love to see it. I know asserting things without a link is like asking to be doubted.

I was also once detained at the Canadian border because I had D+D books in the car. Also, my husband had long hair and we were frequently stopped. He once joked that if he wanted to smuggle drugs the first thing he’d do is cut his hair.

318 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:51:11pm

re: #311 Political Atheist

Dunno about you but between work, chatting about this stuff, I have to pick and choose what I can read up on. I put time in on this issue but say Egypt these days and especially the hashtag black lady feminism thing? I’m lost.

I suppose it might be because I’ve been a journalist for several decades. When I see an alleged “big story” that makes a huge splash, I tend to investigate further.
Snowden/Greenwald isn’t the first “news” story that kinda stunk at first smell, it won’t be the last.

319 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:51:55pm

re: #263 AlexRogan

It took a couple of hours, but Ars finally got their story up on this:

Partner of The Guardian’s NSA leaks reporter is detained for 9 hours at airport

Go get ‘em, tiger…

LOL, just posted it. The small sampling of comments I read before posting are pure, uncut Dudebro.

I would imagine Ars is going to flag it as trolling before the hour is out (currently 6:51 EST as of this rambling.)

320 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:52:09pm
321 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:53:47pm

re: #319 Mattand

LOL, just posted it. The small sampling of comments I read before posting are pure, uncut Dudebro.

I would imagine Ars is going to flag it as trolling before the hour is out (currently 6:51 EST as of this rambling.)

‘mattand’, I gave you a bit to post that over on Ars; I didn’t see it after a while, so I quoted it with a link back to your comment here.

Now, I saw that you posted it, a few posts down from mine…what now?

322 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:54:11pm

re: #312 Eclectic Cyborg

Wow, vicious.

I hope her child one day falls in love and comes home with a mentally or physically challenged person

oh, to be a fly on the wall

323 simoom  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:55:06pm

re: #308 recusancy

NSA abuses contradict Obama and congressional claims of oversight

It’s getting to the point where WaPo’s misinformation has spread so widely that they should be searching for write-ups on their story and contacting the authors when they’re operating off of their initial, misleadingly phrased draft. From your CBS article:

However, the documents shared with the Post make clear that the NSA deliberately withheld some information from oversight bodies, such as the 2008 unintentional interception of a “large number” of calls placed from Washington, D.C. The interception occurred when a programming error confused the U.S. area code 202 for 20, the international dialing code for Egypt. And while the NSA has quadrupled its oversight staff since 2009, the Post reports, infractions increased in 2011 and early 2012.

Again, for anyone who missed it, WaPo eventually “clarified” their first draft by changing the wording, but not drawing attention to the fact that they did:

nytimes.com

Correction: August 16, 2013

An earlier version of this article inaccurately portrayed an incident in 2008 involving a mix-up of the area code of Washington, D.C., 202, and the international dialing code of Egypt, 20. While the Washington Post initially described this incident as involving the “interception” of calls placed from Washington, the Post later explained that it involved the collection of “metadata” logs about the calls. It is not the case that the N.S.A. recorded the contents of the calls.

324 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:55:21pm
325 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:55:34pm

re: #317 J A P

I was also once detained at the Canadian border because I had D+D books in the car. Also, my husband had long hair and we were frequently stopped. He once joked that if he wanted to smuggle drugs the first thing he’d do is cut his hair.

Good thing they didn’t find the 20 sided die in the wheel well.

Please tell me this happened in the ’80s, because if it happened in the last 10 years, I’m casting a Level 16 Head Desk spell on myself.

Did they give a reason for flagging the books?

326 hinterlandg  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:56:45pm

Guess Glenn Greenwald thinks he and his lover are above the law, especially since he implicated the British in his ‘bombshell’ articles from documents Edward Snowden leaked to him. How many people travel with game consoles? Why did the Guardian pay for his trip?

327 ObserverArt  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:56:51pm

This whole NSA thing is starting to get out of control with the stupid.

Looks like a lot of people lived protected lives under rocks. All the new information deliveries and no one looked up the Patriot Act.

Right now it’s like one big American hyperventilation. We need a big bag for a bunch of people to put over their mouths to catch their breath.

Oh my gawd, the world is real!!! Who knew. Mom and dad didn’t tell me. Whaaaaaa!

328 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:56:57pm

Mr. Furious: After all, I am a ticking time bomb of fury.

329 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:57:18pm

Might as well post this here too…

330 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:57:24pm
331 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:58:09pm

re: #241 Justanotherhuman

A physics conference.

332 Lidane  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:58:35pm

Mental health break!

Youtube Video

333 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 3:58:50pm

re: #312 Eclectic Cyborg

While that letter is vile it is nothing compared to what my younger sister does and says to me. I will not go into all of the details but according to her I should not be alive.

334 EmmaAnne  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:00:23pm

re: #297 Lidane

So basically, Raimondo thinks women are expendable.

Some of you may have to lose your bodily autonomy, but that’a a sacrifice I am willing to make.

335 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:00:57pm

If I were fighting the good fight against the OMG Worst And Most Evilest Police State Evar, I would not send my loved ones to go be drug data mules in aforementioned fight.

Would Teh GG have me believe he is 1) a complete idiot 2) the most callous man on Earth 3) a huge exaggerator or 4) an outright liar?

I don’t see any options aside from some combination of these four.

336 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:01:11pm

re: #321 AlexRogan

BTW, ‘mattand’, I gave you a bit to post that over on Ars; I didn’t see it after a while, so I quoted it with a link back to your comment here.

Now, I saw that you posted it, a few posts down from mine…what now?

I just got back from walking the dog. Literally, I read your original post and threw mine up there within the last 10 minutes.

Ars has a trolling policy in which they will hide a post if enough people down vote it. I’m guessing it’s going to get nuked fairly quickly.

I stand by what I said, but I’d be lying if I denied any trolling intentions. Still, the fact that everyone is up in arms about this amazes me.

Greenwald told the world his partner would have some kind of access to what are essentially stolen UK government documents. The more I think about this, the more the whole incident smells of Greenwald endangering his boyfriend for more publicity.

337 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:01:30pm

i know there are a lot of dr who fans hanging out here, so i thought you might be interested in this dr who origin story i stumbled across in the course of looking up other things in the land of internet serandip

“these foolish things” is one of those great old swing tunes i like to perform, & i wanted to know who wrote those wonderful lyrics. it turned out to be a certain eric maschwitz, british cambridge graduate of lithuanian jewish extraction, sometimes published under the name holt marvell.

i had already heard of maschwitz in relation to anna may wong - she never married and he was the love of her life, so it seems. he wrote these foolish things in remembrance of his affair w her. he was married to hermoine gingold at the time

maschwitz had a successful career in england and hollywood, writing a number of musicals, some of which were made into movies, and many screenplays as well. during the war he did a lot of work of various kinds for british intelligence

the 1950s found him in prominent positions in the bbc. just before he left the bbc in 1963 for rival itv, wikipedia notes, ” he requested the recently formed BBC Survey Group to examine possible ideas for a science fiction drama series for children; the results of the study led to the creation of Doctor Who the next year”

338 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:01:37pm

re: #335 erik_t

You forget the correct answer

e) all of the above.

339 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:01:51pm

re: #336 Mattand

Greenwald told the world his partner would have some kind of access to what are essentially stolen UK government documents. The more I think about this, the more the whole incident smells of Greenwald endangering his boyfriend for more publicity.

“Endangering”.

340 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:02:18pm

re: #317 J A P

I was also once detained at the Canadian border because I had D+D books in the car. Also, my husband had long hair and we were frequently stopped. He once joked that if he wanted to smuggle drugs the first thing he’d do is cut his hair.

Heh. At another site I commented about this that I got worse than poor Miranda coming into SFO in 1986 with a full beard, long hair and a stop in Thailand on my passport.

341 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:02:31pm

re: #336 Mattand

I just got back from walking the dog. Literally, I read your original post and threw mine up there within the last 10 minutes.

Ars has a trolling policy in which they will hide a post if enough people down vote it. I’m guessing it’s going to get nuked fairly quickly.

I stand by what I said, but I’d be lying if I denied any trolling intentions. Still, the fact that everyone is up in arms about this amazes me.

Greenwald told the world his partner would have some kind of access to what are essentially stolen UK government documents. The more I think about this, the more the whole incident smells of Greenwald endangering his boyfriend for more publicity.

BTW, I gave you an upding over there…like it’s gonna matter much after the dudebros are through with us, but hey.

342 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:02:53pm

re: #337 engineer cat

We should get to see the Doctor swing dancing. With the current companion.

343 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:04:12pm

Ben, seriously, shut the fuck up.

344 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:04:47pm

wired.com

Meanwhile, how worrisome the metadata program is depends on how the data is actually used. The U.S. isn’t cold war East Germany, and the NSA isn’t the Stasi. But that doesn’t make us immune from the temptation to use a National Relationship Database for political or extralegal ends that have nothing to do with national security. Will President Obama abuse it? Maybe not. But we can be pretty sure President Nixon would have loved it.

345 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:04:53pm

THANKS, OBAMAGUN

346 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:06:12pm

re: #344 recusancy

wired.com

The police have the technical ability to kick down your door any time they’d like. Only law and policy prevents them from doing so. You know who would have loved that? Nixon!!!1

347 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:07:14pm

re: #344 recusancy

wired.com

Do you understand almost nobody here is arguing against that?

348 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:07:47pm

re: #321 AlexRogan

BTW, ‘mattand’, I gave you a bit to post that over on Ars; I didn’t see it after a while, so I quoted it with a link back to your comment here.

Now, I saw that you posted it, a few posts down from mine…what now?

I see what you’re saying now. I just posted an edit, explaining you liked the comment and posted it on your own. I also made it known there was no sock puppetry going on, not that it’ll matter to the Dudebros.

349 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:08:12pm

re: #249 recusancy

I don’t think CEOs should run our government and I don’t care what celebrities think. Some of my favorite actors have the dumbest ideas. I care about what brilliant tech people think about tech, not what they think about things they’ve never spent time studying.

350 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:08:17pm

re: #346 erik_t

The police have the technical ability to kick down your door any time they’d like. Only law and policy prevents them from doing so. You know who would have loved that? Nixon!!!1

I’d like the standards for no-knock warrants raised high above where they are now. But I don’t want to completely remove the ability, there’s obviously compelling interest some of the time.

351 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:09:32pm

re: #344 recusancy

wired.com

I don’t think there is anyone who would defend abuse. But the hyperbole has been so over the top that one has to wonder what the real agenda is. What do these people want?

352 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:11:29pm
353 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:11:39pm

Oh wow.

Dozens of Muslim Brotherhood supporters are killed in prison while attempting to escape police custody.

It really does look like the Egyptian State is going for the “Mehmet Ali” solution in dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood.

354 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:12:39pm

re: #347 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Do you understand almost nobody here is arguing against that?

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

355 freetoken  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:13:56pm

re: #327 ObserverArt

The Greenwald cult very much embraces the glibertarian idiots because both have strong anarchic tendencies. They refuse to embrace that societies pass laws for the sake of the whole and that individuals are subjected to them.

356 freetoken  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:14:31pm

re: #354 recusancy

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

I expect the NSA to collect metadate.

357 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:14:32pm

re: #354 recusancy

The center of dispute has moved from whether the metadata should be collected to what can be done with it in detail. Challenging the collection of metadata has been marginalized.

358 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:16:08pm

re: #344 recusancy

I’ve known about the NSA and what they do for many years - read “The Puzzle Palace” by Bamford more than 20 years ago right after it came out. But one of the things I’ve learned in this new discussion is how many safeguards and limitations and restrictions are now built into these systems, precisely to prevent the kind of abuse that article describes.

None of those concerns are new, they’ve been known to the intelligence community for many years, and the government does try to mitigate them as much as possible in my opinion.

More transparency. Massive reform or repeal of the Patriot Act. I’m down with that. I’m not down with unwarranted hyperbole, exaggeration, and fear-mongering.

359 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:16:27pm

re: #310 Backwoods_Sleuth

That’s because he has an agenda.

360 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:16:33pm

re: #354 recusancy

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

Okay. See, I don’t think you can talk about this issue in simplistic terms like that.

Are you against the government getting any metadata at all from corporations, even with a court order?

361 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:16:34pm

So has anybody said why The Guardian was paying for this guy’s travel?

362 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:17:09pm

re: #353 ProTARDISLiberal

Technically, the jailbreak did succeed. A significant number of Muslim Brotherhood thugs left the prison.

In bodybags.

363 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:17:36pm
364 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:17:59pm


Crackdowns.

365 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:18:13pm

re: #359 urbanmeemaw

That’s because he has an agenda.

Or got his email memo/assignment this morning…

366 Mattand  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:18:18pm

re: #354 recusancy

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

No, what most people here are saying is that Greenwald is wildy exaggerating what the NSA is doing with the data. As Charles J has pointed out several times, every single Guardian article by Greenwald mentions how warrants are needed to do anything with the data.

Oh-so-shockingly, these references are usually four to five pargaraphs in, where they tend not to be noticed.

If you’ve been following the story at LGF, it’s pretty clear most people here want to have a conversation about the NSA. We’re just not lying about what’s going on, as Greenwald is.

367 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:19:04pm

More info on the steps taken by Obama before the Greenwaldnado struck:

Yes, the President’s Executive Order Regarding Whistleblowers Protects Contractors!

368 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:21:29pm

re: #363 Gus

[Embedded content]

Wow David Frum. So the US media has gone to openly mocking GG and crew now?

Good.

369 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:21:42pm

re: #249 recusancy

There’s a reason why most of the very intelligent people in the tech community are on the pro whistle blower side of this and it’s not because they’re all conspiracy nuts who are bored with their lives.

This appears to be a raw assertion. How exactly does one query just the very intelligent people?

re: #354 recusancy

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

You willingly signed the licensing agreement of a multinational telecom, agreeing to the sale of that metadata to any marketing conglomerate willing to pay for it. So, I’m curious exactly how you harbor any incredulity at the idea that the government can also access it?

370 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:21:44pm
371 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:21:54pm

Does anyone think that the UK gives a flying fuck if they pissed off GG?

372 EmmaAnne  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:23:42pm

re: #354 recusancy

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

I think people hold a variety of views about metadata. I am fine with it being collected, so long as good cause must be shown to use it. This feels to me like getting a warrant to review phone records from the phone company back in the twentieth century. If we turn up a terrorist, I want law enforcement to find out who he was talking to.

I don’t want the government trolling through it to make enemies lists and prepare FBI files on people whose politics the agents don’t like. The way to prevent this (in my view) is good regulations and oversight.

So far I have seen no evidence that any of the bad uses I oppose has actually happened. That is why I don’t consider Snowden a whistle blower. Whistle blowers expose wrongdoing - not potential for wrongdoing in the future if everyone ignores the law and their own policies. This is like exposing the fact that the police can improperly kick your door down as was mentioned above. Yeah, they can - let’s make sure they don’t.

373 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:25:00pm

re: #344 recusancy

wired.com

Meanwhile, how worrisome the metadata program is depends on how the data is actually used. The U.S. isn’t cold war East Germany, and the NSA isn’t the Stasi. But that doesn’t make us immune from the temptation to use a National Relationship Database for political or extralegal ends that have nothing to do with national security. Will President Obama abuse it? Maybe not. But we can be pretty sure President Nixon would have loved it.

Do you actually read the stuff you quote? Or are you just all-in on the it’s not happening right now, but IT COULD even though all evidence says it’s NOT happening, but “they” say it could, so it might be happening and we just don’t know…

gah…

374 Dr. Matt  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:26:04pm
375 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:26:45pm

re: #372 EmmaAnne

There’s also the irritating point that metadata is already collected by many groups, particularly on the internet. I mean, hell, where do people think their targeted Google advertisements and whatnot come from?

I think you get rather different responses depending on if you frame the conversation as

OMFG THE GUMBMINT WANTS TO KEEP TRACK OF WHO I TALK TO AND WHEN

versus

Most or all of the telecommunications providers I use and access keep track of who I’m contacting and when; should the government also be able to do this?

376 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:28:35pm

FWIW, I’m more pissed off about how my phone number is abused by bogus telemarketers who spoof their phone numbers on caller ID and also rack up minutes on my husband’s pay by the minute cell phone he uses for work only.
THAT’S the misuse of metadata that pisses me off…

377 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:28:59pm

re: #370 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Unless some other facts emerge, there is really no difference in kind between you[Cameron] and Vladimir Putin

When Sully is wrong he is majestically wrong.

378 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:29:44pm

re: #312 Eclectic Cyborg

Wow, vicious.

Holy shit. Whoever threatened the neighbor like this should be arrested.

379 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:30:05pm

re: #373 Backwoods_Sleuth

Do you actually read the stuff you quote? Or are you just all-in on the it’s not happening right now, but IT COULD even though all evidence says it’s NOT happening, but “they” say it could, so it might be happening and we just don’t know…

gah…

Yeah, this is kind of precious. We give the President the unilateral ability to authorize the use of nuclear weapons, but the idea of government access to metadata we all willingly gave to globe spanning telecoms is somehow alarming.

380 recusancy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:31:07pm

Who, in your minds, has done good reporting on this?

381 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:31:32pm

re: #378 Vicious Babushka

Holy shit. Whoever threatened the neighbor like this should be arrested.

That is pure viciousness.

382 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:33:39pm

re: #335 erik_t

If I were fighting the good fight against the OMG Worst And Most Evilest Police State Evar, I would not send my loved ones to go be drug data mules in aforementioned fight.

Would Teh GG have me believe he is 1) a complete idiot 2) the most callous man on Earth 3) a huge exaggerator or 4) an outright liar?

I don’t see any options aside from some combination of these four.

You forgot one:
5) It was satire.

383 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:34:29pm

re: #358 Charles Johnson

More transparency. Massive reform or repeal of the Patriot Act. I’m down with that. I’m not down with unwarranted hyperbole, exaggeration, and fear-mongering.

that’s about my point of view, & i think the pp recusancy quoted is more or less consonant w that, if perhaps more alarmed

there will always be a tension between security and privacy. a perfectly secure state would be a perfectly controlled state w little privacy - a variety of totalitarianism. a perfectly free state that had no way of gathering information would be helpless to stop crime or terrorism

we did well for decades without the “patriot” act rewriting the 4th amendment. the DBs being accumulated now may be helpful in fighting terrorism, but they must be watched carefully since they are a temptation to those who might want to abuse them and other surveillance technology

it is the old question, ‘quis custodiet custodies?’ - and the answer, as always, is us

384 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:34:37pm

re: #292 Charles Johnson

Being forced to give birth to a child you don’t want seems very authoritarian to me.

385 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:35:42pm

re: #317 J A P

I was also once detained at the Canadian border because I had D+D books in the car.

My son was detained at the Detroit/Windsor border after a day trip because:

1. His wife did not have a visa in her Israeli passport.

After they were detained for several hours, his kids got cranky and crabby and so he let them out of the car TO RUN WILD inside the immigration booth.

The immigration officer said “Control your children!”

My son said, “Sir, you invited us to stay here.”

They came home after like about 7 hours detention.

Meanwhile my two other sons, who accompanied their brother on the day trip, went their respective ways, one home to Toronto and the other came back to our house. I said “where’s your brother?” He said “CAUGHT AT THE BORDER!!11” laughing hysterically like it was the most hilarious things ever.

386 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:35:49pm

re: #378 Vicious Babushka

Holy shit. Whoever threatened the neighbor like this should be arrested.

Nothing in the letter is a crime (except some of the writers sentence constructs)

I prefer my scenario

littlegreenfootballs.com

387 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:36:07pm

re: #381 Justanotherhuman

That is pure viciousness.

I am pure Vicious.

Or maybe deliciousness.

388 thedopefishlives  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:36:44pm

Evening Lizardim. I read on Fark earlier that Julian Assange is anticipating being hit by a U.S. drone. I don’t understand the mindset that these people have that they think themselves so utterly dangerous to the United States Government as to warrant an extra-judicial and highly public murder. In any event, he released a buttload of documents in an attempt to buy his life from this imaginary threat. It’s mind-boggling.

389 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:36:44pm

re: #386 sattv4u2

Nothing in the letter is a crime (except some of the writers sentence constructs)

I prefer my scenario

littlegreenfootballs.com

Only if the disabled lover is also gay, Black and Muslim.

390 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:38:15pm

re: #389 Vicious Babushka

Only if the disabled lover is also gay, Black and Muslim.

Bonus points, but not mandatory seeing that we don’t know what the writers views on any of those are (or for all we know, could be any of those)

391 freetoken  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:38:59pm

Oh, look who’s piled on:

How Obama has abused the Patriot Act

By Jim Sensenbrenner

Sensenbrenner and GG, a marriage made in heaven.

392 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:39:43pm
393 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:40:03pm

Let me guess: Greenwald is already trying to get another book deal out of this.

394 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:40:24pm

Maybe those weren’t games…

“But the Guardian reported his electronic possessions including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles were confiscated.”

news.sky.com

If security had found 1 single suspicious item on any of those, they would have kept all of them for forensic analysis.

This isn’t over yet for Mr. Miranda, I don’t think.

395 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:41:30pm

re: #354 recusancy

People seem to be arguing that meta data collection is fine. I may very well be wrong.

The meta data collection is on-going. The ISPs and phone companies will collect it as a matter of course.

The discussion should be regarding the policy and obstacles to be passed before an outside agency is allowed to view or analyze that meta-data. And from there potentially go to content. That is not what is going on currently. It’s not a discussion of whether the walls should be higher and whether parts of the Patriot Act repealed. Instead it yelling, screaming, and circus acts.

And the “martyr” of this has made a series of bad decisions and (as far as I can tell) been seriously played by some individuals who have and are simply using him for publicity after using him to commit espionage.

396 Dr. Matt  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:41:45pm
397 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:43:17pm
398 blueraven  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:43:47pm

re: #391 freetoken

Oh, look who’s piled on:

How Obama has abused the Patriot Act

Sensenbrenner and GG, a marriage made in heaven.

Sensenbrenner, The Pauls; elder and younger, Matt Drudge, Assange and Wikileaks. That marriage is getting kinky.

399 abolitionist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:44:50pm

re: #212 Charles Johnson

People are actually much more badly misinformed. The non-stop hyperbole and distortions about NSA surveillance have created a firestorm of outrage based on ignorance.

When this started I actually said I hoped that something good would come of it, and people would start to seriously examine the very real issues of privacy it raises.

It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

Charles, please don’t kill the messenger, but this might provide some distraction from Snowden/Greenwald.

FREIGHT TRAIN TO HELL - pdf

Please read at least the executive summary at start of the document —with whatever PDF reader you like.

I’m confident that it won’t be utterly incomprehensible to you, based on my knowledge of your pre-LGF programming experience on a once-popular 8bit cpu, and all you’ve learned since.

400 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:44:53pm

re: #387 Vicious Babushka

I am pure Vicious.

Or maybe deliciousness.

I definitely meant the letter writer. : ) Who isn’t delicious, but a POS “neighbor”.

401 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:45:31pm

re: #396 Dr. Matt

awww…I see you lost a GG fanboi follower.

402 Lancelot Link  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:45:47pm

Associate of known fugitive spy legally held at an airport for 9 hours=INTERNATIONAL SCANDAL!
Law-abiding black man held for 3 days for driving a nice car=doesn’t even make the local papers.
dailykos.com

Hell, I’ve been held for 9 hours for walking while mildly intoxicated.

403 Dr. Matt  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:46:16pm

re: #401 Backwoods_Sleuth

awww…I see you lost a GG fanboi follower.

Fucking heartbroken I am.

404 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:46:18pm

How long before we know if there was anything on that laptop, if there was? Ever?

405 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:47:33pm

Serious question: Have any of the people bitching about the metadata program even read their EULAs, or do they just click through them? You don’t get to blithely ignore the wording of an agreement and then act surprised by the results. Own the consequences of yo’ shit.

406 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:48:24pm

re: #403 Dr. Matt

Fucking heartbroken I am.

Looks like you lost a real jewel:


407 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:49:14pm

And Princess Diana’s death is being investigated again. gma.yahoo.com

408 [deleted]  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:49:15pm
409 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:49:47pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

Serious question: Have any of the people bitching about the metadata program even read their EULAs, or do they just click through them? You don’t get to blithely ignore the wording of an agreement and then act surprised by the results. Own the consequences of yo’ shit.

I suspect click through. Most EULAs are so long, so onerous and so packed with legalese that most people couldn’t even comprehend them even if they did take the time to read them.

410 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:49:53pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

Well I did watch the video…

Youtube Video

411 Dr. Matt  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:50:03pm

re: #406 b.d.

Looks like you lost a real jewel:

[Embedded content]

Good Gawd, he has no shame. Looks like I really turned a screw. Oooops

412 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:50:19pm

re: #407 PhillyPretzel

And Princess Diana’s death is being investigated again. gma.yahoo.com

It’s like the British version of the Kennedy Assassination.

413 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:50:20pm
414 thedopefishlives  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:50:28pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

Serious question: Have any of the people bitching about the metadata program even read their EULAs, or do they just click through them? You don’t get to blithely ignore the wording of an agreement and then act surprised by the results. Own the consequences of yo’ shit.

For that matter, I present to you Dopefish’s Second Law of the Internet: Anything and everything you do on the Internet is a matter of public record. It’s all stored by the ISP as a matter of course.

415 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:52:59pm

re: #409 Eclectic Cyborg

I suspect click through. Most EULAs are so long, so onerous and so packed with legalese that most people couldn’t even comprehend them even if they did take the time to read them.

There’s an argument to be made for EULA reform. However nobody with any kind of functioning mind sees that wall of text and thinks it means their privacy will be safeguarded.

416 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:53:01pm

re: #312 Eclectic Cyborg

Wow, vicious.

And Dr Lizardo’s faith in humanity drops another point. Maybe two.

Whoever wrote that screed has issues, to put it mildly.

417 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:53:51pm

re: #346 erik_t

Oh, gosh. This is exactly what I’ve been saying over and over again for the past few weeks. I’ve finally bored all my friends to tears. The whole NSA things sounds to me like, “Boo! Technology!” There’s never been anything between the citizens and an oppressive state but the laws. Now can we get over the technology boogie man and have a reasonable discussion of those laws.

418 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:56:10pm

re: #408 rosiee

That was a bit uncalled for.

419 abolitionist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 4:57:42pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

Serious question: Have any of the people bitching about the metadata program even read their EULAs, or do they just click through them? You don’t get to blithely ignore the wording of an agreement and then act surprised by the results. Own the consequences of yo’ shit.

If customers could read them BEFORE committing to buying a product or service, they might matter.

420 freetoken  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:00:23pm

My bottom line is this:

My life is much more dependent upon this: A slow-motion Colorado River disaster

… than metadata collection by the NSA.

The desperate attention seeking by The Guardian and GG is narcissism disguising itself as concerned journalism.

There are so many life-threatening problems people face around the world, whether individually or as groups, that this self-absorption by a clique of overly-paid editors and writers for corporate media is, in my view, a sin.

I suppose some of them will retort - Should we not be concerned about government tyranny? To even ask that question of the current NSA programs, in light of the human experience around the world in the 200-something nations currently on this planet, is itself an exercise in vanity, or indifference to what people do experience everyday around the globe.

At the bottom of all of this GG outrage-du-jour is that kind of residual infantilism so common in our overly-wealthy society today, where people can hide from the weight of making tough decisions, because we’ve all hired someone else to do that for us.

President Obama gets paid to make those tough, and ugly, decisions, so we don’t have to do them ourselves.

The NSA gets paid to track terrorist activities, so we don’t have to do that ourselves. And any idea that the NSA ought not have to keep secrets to do this is just more that juvenile idealism that only exists until experience is gained in life.

421 OhNoZombies!  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:00:58pm

re: #15 Balfour Rage

Gays live rent-free in Bryan’s brain:

[Embedded content]

Forgive me if someone has already said this…so late to the party, but:
I interpret this as him saying gay sex is addictive.
And he would know this how?
It certainly is on his mind a lot.
Just sayin’…

422 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:02:36pm

And now for a levity break.

Image: cgxq.jpg

423 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:03:45pm

re: #422 Dr Lizardo

And now for a levity break.

Image: cgxq.jpg

brand marketing at its finest…

424 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:04:08pm

Can we all agree that the first rule of the Internet is:

If it’s not something you’d be comfortable with everyone you know seeing, you probably shouldn’t post it?

425 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:05:05pm

re: #424 Eclectic Cyborg

Can we all agree that the first rule of the Internet is:

If it’s not something you’d be comfortable with everyone you know seeing, you probably shouldn’t post it?

blogs would have 2.,,, maybe 3 posts per week!!
/

426 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:06:12pm

re: #423 Backwoods_Sleuth

brand marketing at its finest…

Indeed.

427 Lancelot Link  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:06:13pm

re: #424 Eclectic Cyborg

Can we all agree that the first rule of the Internet is:

If it’s not something you’d be comfortable with everyone you know in the world seeing, you probably shouldn’t post it?

fixed for accuracy

428 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:06:33pm

I had to drop out of the bidding when it hit $25 million!!!

Ferrari sells for record $27.5 million

money.cnn.com

429 teleskiguy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:06:53pm
430 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:07:10pm

So now GG is comparing the UK to Iran? Found on his twitter…

Jon Schwarz ‏@tinyrevolution 4h

“Iran has intimidated and detained relatives and friends of journalists to obtain information or silence them”—@HRW hrw.org

431 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:09:04pm

re: #428 sattv4u2

I had to drop out of the bidding when it hit $25 million!!!

Ferrari sells for record $27.5 million

money.cnn.com

I had to drop out when it reached $20 million. I was hoping to raise an extra $10 million, but just couldn’t scrounge up enough cash.

Dammit.

432 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:09:10pm
433 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:09:29pm

re: #152 Vicious Babushka

David Sirota is having a TwitShitFight with Grover Norquist.

Have some popcorn.

Well, put me on Team Norquist for this one. I hope the Pledgemaster hands Sirota his ass.

434 A Mom Anon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:09:42pm

re: #378 Vicious Babushka

Holy crap that’s just about as hateful a thing as I have ever seen. If that had been me, my new mission in life would be to find out who this is. I would also copy this letter and leave it at every neighbor’s house with my own note attached, and letting everyone know there’s a freaking asshole living in the neighborhood.

I’m not a violent person, but I’d almost be willing to make an exception for the asshole who wrote this. What the hell has to happen to your soul to be so awful? And this person has kids? Nice, really fucking nice.

435 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:10:10pm

re: #431 Dr Lizardo

I had to drop out when it reached $20 million. I was hoping to raise an extra $10 million, but just couldn’t scrounge up enough cash.

Dammit.

Check the couch cushions and laundry.
:-)

436 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:10:14pm
437 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:10:31pm

GG also linked this:

UK: Detention of Guardian employee at Heathrow unlawful and unwarranted

amnesty.org

Since when is David Miranda an employee of The Guardian?

438 thedopefishlives  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:11:53pm

re: #436 Gus

Skype is a known insecure method of communication (Microsoft, at least, has demonstrable access to “encrypted” data transfers). For being such a privacy nazi, he really doesn’t know much.

439 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:12:43pm

re: #438 thedopefishlives

Skype is a known insecure method of communication (Microsoft, at least, has demonstrable access to “encrypted” data transfers). For being such a privacy nazi, he really doesn’t know much.

Didn’t Snowjob have to teach him how to encrypt email?

440 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:13:20pm

Why Increased Surveillance Does Not Make Us A Fascist State

no doubt about it, the current state of affairs in regard to domestic surveillance is at best creepy, and at worst dangerous to civil liberties. however, there is a fundamental difference between the u.s. and totalitarian states that practiced domestic surveillance, which is:

the use to which the information can be put

no doubt many of us saw that excellent movie about the stasi that came out a few years ago. the information being gathered in east germany was about activities that were illegal in a fascist state, that is, criticizing the government and exposing its illegal activities, things that are not illegal in the united states. in fact, it would be difficult for most of us to come up w something we wanted to do that would be something that would get us arrested. we like to criticize the government, but it is not illegal here. it is not dangerous to be jewish or gay - ok, it can be dangerous to be gay or black, but the government is, hypothetically, on your side in these situations

so why, then, is surveillance still dangerous? for one thing, blackmail - if somebody knows who you’ve been calling, perhaps they might know that you don’t want some other person to know about it, like say your spouse. also, there is the danger of mccartheyism and guilt by association - look at how much political hay has been reaped over the fact that obama went to a couple of parties that saul alinsky happened to be at

i’m wary of increased government surveillance. but unless and until i am afraid of getting arrested for criticizing the government or belonging to some organization, i will not be living in a fascist state

441 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:14:06pm

re: #437 Justanotherhuman

GG also linked this:

UK: Detention of Guardian employee at Heathrow unlawful and unwarranted

amnesty.org

Since when is David Miranda an employee of The Guardian?

His partner is on The Guardian payroll now too?

Way to put to bed those charges of grifterism.

443 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:15:02pm

re: #326 hinterlandg

I really don’t understand why the Cult of Snowbro does not accept that 1) Snowden stole information from the NSA 2) Greenwald was complicit 3) Both have admitted 1 and 2 and 4) A country whose information was included in said theft felt the need to examine electronic devices of a passenger associated with Greenwald who, “coincidentally” was travelling to meet another person complicit in the theft. What in the hell is so hard to understand about this?

Though I am certain that President Rand Paul would never let the Brits to do this. And yes, why did The Guardian pay for the trip?

444 teleskiguy  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:15:44pm

re: #432 Gus

Looks like these guys need the new line of tin foil hats that are all the rage this season!

Thanks to darthstar for finding this little gem of a photograph! :)

445 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:16:36pm

re: #443 urbanmeemaw

I really don’t understand why the Cult of Snowbro does not accept that 1) Snowden stole information from the NSA 2) Greenwald was complicit 3) Both have admitted 1 and 2 and 4) A country whose information was included in said theft felt the need to examine electronic devices of a passenger associated with Greenwald who, “coincidentally” was travelling to meet another person complicit in the theft. What in the hell is so hard to understand about this?

Though I am certain that President Rand Paul would never let the Brits to do this. And yes, why did The Guardian pay for the trip?

Because all of a sudden, and unbeknownst to anyone, Miranda is an “employee” of The Guardian now.

Aren’t we all? : )

446 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:17:23pm

So The Guardian let one of their employees sit in a detention cell for 9 hours and did absolutely nothing?

447 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:18:14pm

re: #431 Dr Lizardo

I had to drop out when it reached $20 million. I was hoping to raise an extra $10 million, but just couldn’t scrounge up enough cash.

Dammit.

forgot to look under the sofa cushions, eh?

448 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:18:25pm

re: #440 engineer cat

Why Increased Surveillance Does Not Make Us A Fascist State

no doubt about it, the current state of affairs in regard to domestic surveillance is at best creepy, and at worst dangerous to civil liberties. however, there is a fundamental difference between the u.s. and totalitarian states that practiced domestic surveillance, which is:

the use to which the information can be put

no doubt many of us saw that excellent movie about the stasi that came out a few years ago. the information being gathered in east germany was about activities that were illegal in a fascist state, that is, criticizing the government and exposing its illegal activities, things that are not illegal in the united states. in fact, it would be difficult for most of us to come up w something we wanted to do that would be something that would get us arrested. we like to criticize the government, but it is not illegal here. it is not dangerous to be jewish or gay - ok, it can be dangerous to be gay or black, but the government is, hypothetically, on your side in these situations

so why, then, is surveillance still dangerous? for one thing, blackmail - if somebody knows who you’ve been calling, perhaps they might know that you don’t want some other person to know about it, like say your spouse. also, there is the danger of mccartheyism and guilt by association - look at how much political hay has been reaped over the fact that obama went to a couple of parties that saul alinsky happened to be at

i’m wary of increased government surveillance. but unless and until i am afraid of getting arrested for criticizing the government or belonging to some organization, i will not be living in a fascist state

Um, Saul Alinsky died when Barack Obama was a small child.

449 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:19:25pm

That’s it, I’ve had my fill of this now.

Here’s what we must do

1.) Cut off all foreign aid to the UK
2.) Give that Churchill bust back to them.

450 J A P  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:20:33pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

I used to read them and still do sometimes, but what I’m I going to do if I don’t like it? Not have a telephone? Not use the internet? It’s not as if they’re negotiable. I just had my Lavabit email address shut down and am currently looking for a service that doesn’t sell my info to advertisers. I’m not having a lot of luck finding one. Will I be able to convince my friends to communicate with me through the U.S. post rather than by cell phone or email because I have a distaste for the agreements? No. Since I’m not willing to go live in a cabin in the woods with no friends, I agree to these things I don’t like in order to be a part of society. Anyone who wants to start a campaign to get some control back over our lives will have me as a founding member.

I don’t like any of these things, but excessive outrage gives me a hangover.

451 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:21:22pm

re: #437 Justanotherhuman

GG also linked this:

UK: Detention of Guardian employee at Heathrow unlawful and unwarranted

amnesty.org

Since when is David Miranda an employee of The Guardian?

They’re going to need a fresh mule.

452 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:21:41pm

re: #435 Political Atheist

Check the couch cushions and laundry.
:-)

I did, but all I found was $521,250 and some lint.

And a Dorito.

453 b.d.  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:22:08pm

re: #451 jaunte

They’re going to need a fresh mule.

Did they X-Ray him to see if he swallowed balloons full of zip drives?

454 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:22:11pm

Have we determined if the detainment at Heathrow was justified or not?

455 freetoken  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:23:54pm

I noted up in Gary Bauer: Supreme Court’s DOMA and Prop 8 rulings “judical terrorism” how the outrages of the GG-cultists and the Dominionist/Fundamentalists are starting to sound alike.

456 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:24:22pm
457 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:24:48pm
458 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:25:07pm
460 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:25:16pm

re: #445 Justanotherhuman

Ah, yes. First they detained a Guardian employee, and I did nothing.

Sigh.

461 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:25:34pm
462 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:26:28pm

re: #405 goddamnedfrank

Serious question: Have any of the people bitching about the metadata program even read their EULAs, or do they just click through them? You don’t get to blithely ignore the wording of an agreement and then act surprised by the results. Own the consequences of yo’ shit.

the thing that annoys me about tracking pixel kind of stuff is that it doesn’t require eulas or any other kind of explicit consent. and i don’t think cookies require consent either - do they?

on the other hand, there is only so much information that can be obtained from a website visit…

463 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:26:30pm

re: #454 FemNaziBitch

Have we determined if the detainment at Heathrow was justified or not?

To the best of our ability.

464 AlexRogan  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:26:34pm

re: #452 Dr Lizardo

I did, but all I found was $521,250 and some lint.

And a Dorito.

I got a rock.

/Charlie Brown

465 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:27:28pm

re: #463 Decatur Deb

To the best of our ability.

And what was determined?

466 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:27:52pm

re: #465 FemNaziBitch

And what was determined?

We have damned little ability.

467 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:28:44pm

re: #462 engineer cat

the thing that annoys me about tracking pixel kind of stuff is that it doesn’t require eulas or any other kind of explicit consent. and i don’t think cookies require consent either - do they?

on the other hand, there is only so much information that can be obtained from a website visit…

I CLICK it and don’t read. I figure if anything actually comes of it, I’d rather spend my time with an attorney than reading the myriad of EULA’s i’d have to do to anything I want to do.

468 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:28:56pm

re: #466 Decatur Deb

We have damned little ability.

It’s true.

469 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:28:57pm
470 erik_t  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:29:25pm

Being a drug data mule is not journalism.

471 abolitionist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:30:17pm

re: #440 engineer cat

Why Increased Surveillance Does Not Make Us A Fascist State
[snip]
also, there is the danger of mccartheyism and guilt by association - look at how much political hay has been reaped over the fact that obama went to a couple of parties that saul alinsky happened to be at [snip]

Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer.

I believe you meant Bill Ayers —whose home it was.

472 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:31:37pm

I know there has to be an official term for it …

When there is so much of something, it’s value becomes meaningless.

i.e. information. data. EULA’s.

473 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:31:50pm

re: #448 Dark_Falcon

Um, Saul Alinsky died when Barack Obama was a small child.

ok, i’ve got the people mixed up - who was the character involved in radical politics that attended some of the same fundraisers that obama did, that because of this right wingers have insisted obama is a disciple of?

474 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:31:56pm

re: #469 Gus

[Embedded content]

This of course is wrongs besides being stupid. Miranda wasn’t being interrogated for acts of terrorism. They allegedly used Chapter 7 as a method to detain him. I’m waiting for the official version.

475 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:32:42pm

re: #474 Gus

This of course is wrongs besides being stupid. Miranda wasn’t being interrogated for acts of terrorism. They allegedly used Chapter 7 as a method to detain him. I’m waiting for the official version.

so, it could really be a sex scandal?

476 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:33:24pm

re: #473 engineer cat

Bill Ayers?

477 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:34:36pm

re: #458 Gus

[Embedded content]

The misuse of Goldwater’s dictum is but the least of what was wrong with that statement.

478 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:34:57pm

re: #476 jaunte

Bill Ayers?

That was the one.

479 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:35:00pm

re: #474 Gus

This of course is wrongs besides being stupid. Miranda wasn’t being interrogated for acts of terrorism. They allegedly used Chapter 7 as a method to detain him. I’m waiting for the official version.

Are you sarc’ing? If Miranda was helping distribute information to disable anti-terrorist intelligence efforts, that’s close enough. You don’t have to wear a vest full of semtex.

480 Lancelot Link  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:35:46pm

re: #462 engineer cat

and i don’t think cookies require consent either - do they?

on the other hand, there is only so much information that can be obtained from a website visit…

I just deleted a metric fuckton of cookies from Firedoglake and the Guardian (among others)

481 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:35:47pm

Put rosiee in a cage with Raimondo.

Two wingnuts enter, one wingnut leaves!

482 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:37:19pm

re: #471 abolitionist

Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer.

I believe you meant Bill Ayers —whose home it was.

aha, ayers, my mistake

but my point is that obama has been subjected to classic mccarthyite guilt by association tactics over this - that is, we know you went to his house, therefore you must agree with everything he ever said

483 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:38:15pm

Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.

484 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:38:41pm

re: #482 engineer cat

He’s now Bill “Obama should be tried for war crimes” Ayers.

485 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:38:51pm

re: #482 engineer cat

aha, ayers, my mistake

but my point is that obama has been subjected to classic mccarthyite guilt by association tactics over this - that is, we know you went to his house, therefore you must agree with everything he ever said

I think you are right. The “Guilt by Association” was very Red Scare when he was first running for office.

Most of has have gotten over it.

486 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:38:57pm

re: #482 engineer cat

aha, ayers, my mistake

but my point is that obama has been subjected to classic mccarthyite guilt by association tactics over this - that is, we know you went to his house, therefore you must agree with everything he ever said

Used to hang with a Presbyterian minister that was an elector for the CPUSA. That makes me either a communist or (gasp!) a Presbyterian.

487 Gus  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:39:00pm

re: #479 Decatur Deb

Are you sarc’ing? If Miranda was helping distribute information to disable anti-terrorist intelligence efforts, that’s close enough. You don’t have to wear a vest full of semtex.

I’m being light. Argument could be that this aiding al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

488 rosiee  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:39:38pm

re: #481 Vicious Babushka

Only if you wield the leather whip, Madam.

489 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:40:05pm

re: #487 Gus

I’m being light. Argument could be that this aiding al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

There are those that think that way (zero-sum). The idea that human beings are human beings isn’t allowed in some mind-sets.

490 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:40:14pm

Even The Guardian doesn’t say that Miranda is their employee, only that they paid for his flight and that he “…lives with Glenn Greenwald…”

theguardian.com

Stealth employee? Employee while tripping?

491 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:41:23pm

re: #488 rosiee

Only if you wield the leather whip, Madam.

She has a fancy state of the art mixer and she isn’t afraid to use it.

492 dog philosopher  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:41:42pm

re: #480 Lancelot Link

I just deleted a metric fuckton of cookies from Firedoglake and the Guardian (among others)

yeah i periodically engage in cookie killing excercises. whoever came up w the term “cookies” for them is a fucking pr genius

493 jaunte  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:41:50pm

re: #490 Justanotherhuman

“What’s amazing is this law, called the Terrorism Act, gives them a right to detain and question you about your activities with a terrorist organization or your possible involvement in or knowledge of a terrorism plot,” Mr. Greenwald said. “The only thing they were interested in was N.S.A. documents and what I was doing with Laura Poitras. It’s a total abuse of the law.” He added: “This is obviously a serious, radical escalation of what they are doing. He is my partner. He is not even a journalist.

nytimes.com

Not a journalist, just an employee of the Guardian who should be treated like a journalist?

494 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:41:58pm
495 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:42:33pm

re: #209 Gus

OMG!!! The NSA hacked DailyBeast.com and found out Snowald was going to send files to his partner!!! The Horror!!! OMG!!! What if they hack LGF and read my comment????? The Outrage!!!!

496 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:43:33pm

re: #470 erik_t

Receiving stolen data is not “journalism”.

497 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:44:40pm

re: #483 Gus

This is the definition of “Not okay”

498 abolitionist  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:44:57pm

re: #473 engineer cat

ok, i’ve got the people mixed up - who was the character involved in radical politics that attended some of the same fundraisers that obama did, that because of this right wingers have insisted obama is a disciple of?

Maybe you’re thinking of Louis Farrakhan —one of many who supported Obama.

499 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:46:58pm

re: #470 erik_t

Being a drug data mule is not journalism.

Johnny Mnemonic!

500 subterraneanhomesickalien  Sun, Aug 18, 2013 6:44:24pm

re: #408 rosiee

You’re not one of those “jewicidal” shit volcano’s are you?

501 KiTA  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:47:08am

Holy crap, the amount of Derp about this at DailyKOS has reached critical levels.

They’re even suggesting Obama is openly harassing journalists that disagree with him.

These are supposedly the ultra-left bloggers.


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