The Pro-NSA Case the Administration Isn’t Making

Missed opportunity
Opinion • Views: 23,792

Here’s a good piece on the NSA internal audit published by the Washington Post and what it really shows us, by Benjamin Wittes: NSA Spying Defense: The Case the Administration Isn’t Making.

Wittes actually makes many of the same points about the document that I have previously:

NSA Uncovered and Corrected More Than 3000 Cases of Unauthorized Access Per Year
Feinstein: No Evidence of Intentional NSA Abuse of Authority

In these two posts I argued that the NSA Oversight & Compliance document actually shows the opposite of the overheated Washington Post portrayal — it contains no evidence whatsoever of deliberate wrongdoing, only errors.

The most common incidents reported were “roaming” cases in which a valid foreign target uses a foreign cell phone while inside the US. The next most common incidents were simple typos by analysts entering database queries with fallible human fingers. The remaining incidents are mostly errors of one kind or another. But there is not a single case in the report of deliberate malicious activity.

Let’s start with the audit report that supposedly shows thousands of violations of privacy rules and legal breaches. To be clear, not one of these 2,776 “incidents” (over a year at the NSA’s headquarters) involves a decision by any NSA employee to engage in illegal surveillance against an American. They are nearly all inadvertent mistakes of a technical nature—the majority of a few discrete types (See pp. 5-6). The bulk are “roamers,” which take place when a valid foreign intelligence target happens to cross into the United States. The IG report notes that “Roamer incidents are largely unpreventable, even with good target awareness and traffic review, since target travel activities are often unannounced and not easily predicted” (emphasis added).

There are also a fair number of database query errors—that is, typos, confusions of boolean terms like “and” and “or,” syntax errors, and the like. You know … mistakes. These mistakes are caught through a combination of automated checking, auditing, and self-reporting. In other words, the fewer than 3,000 incidents reported over the year in question involve the NSA’s own systems—and people—catching and correcting technical errors.

Even the section entitled “Significant Incidents of Non-compliance” (pp. 11-13) does not detail anything like any intentional violation of the privacy rights of Americans. One incident involved the retention of FISA business records material longer than the permitted five years. Another involved an incident in which collection continued against an individual after indications had arisen suggesting he had a green card; this stopped when a senior linguist figured out that those indications had been received and not noticed.

In other words, what this document shows is that among the billions and billions of communications the NSA interacts with every year, it has certain low rate of technical errors, many of them unavoidable, which it dutifully records and counts.

Wittes criticizes the Obama administration for failing to make these same points, and I agree. It’s a wasted opportunity to turn a negatively slanted article into a teaching moment.

Jump to bottom

511 comments
1 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:25:38pm

It’s a missed opportunity, but at the same time the whole story seems to losing momentum on its own. Better to let Greenwald outrage himself back into mediocrity than give him an extension on his 15 minutes.

2 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:29:53pm

Now getting a 500 Service Unavailable error page at Amazon.

3 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:30:47pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Now getting a 500 Service Unavailable error page at Amazon.

THIS IS NOT GOOD!!!

4 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:31:31pm
5 Jack Burton  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:32:28pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Now getting a 500 Service Unavailable error page at Amazon.

This is what I see just going straight to amazon.com:

*the Amazon logo*

Oops!

We’re very sorry, but we’re having trouble doing what you just asked us to do. Please give us another chance—click the Back button on your browser and try your request again. Or start from the beginning on our homepage.

6 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:32:48pm

Where will I buy my dildos from now!?!?!!

7 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:33:05pm

amazon back up now.

8 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:33:17pm

re: #5 Jack Burton

This is what I see just going straight to amazon.com:

*the Amazon logo*

Oops!

We’re very sorry, but we’re having trouble doing what you just asked us to do. Please give us another chance—click the Back button on your browser and try your request again. Or start from the beginning on our homepage.

Not being able to shop will bring this country to it’s knees

9 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:33:47pm

re: #6 Amory Blaine

Where will I buy my dildos from now!?!?!!

10 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:33:54pm

re: #6 Amory Blaine

Where will I buy my dildos from now!?!?!!

What kind you looking for?

11 Jack Burton  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:34:17pm

re: #6 Amory Blaine

Where will I buy my dildos from now!?!?!!

Walgreens?

Bahahaha

12 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:34:19pm

Point I was making last night.

13 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:36:14pm

bbl

14 b.d.  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:36:20pm

re: #12 Gus

Point I was making last night.

[Embedded content]

Oh! Oh! I Know!

Because he’s an idiot?

15 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:36:57pm

re: #11 Jack Burton

Walgreens?

Bahahaha

Not in Alabama.

Alabama Judges Take Hard Line on Dildos

theregister.co.uk

16 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:37:15pm

re: #12 Gus

Point I was making last night.

[Embedded content]

yep. Only reason to go to Heathrow was to cause a scene.

17 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:37:23pm

re: #12 Gus

Point I was making last night.

[Embedded content]

Because his boyfriend is clown shoes?

18 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:38:59pm

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yes, one article I read this am said Miranda was yelling in the terminal after his passport wasn’t returned immediately.

19 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:39:07pm

re: #11 Jack Burton

Walgreens?

Bahahaha

Aisle 5 next to the greeting cards.

20 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:40:07pm

re: #18 Justanotherhuman

Yes, one article I read this am said Miranda was yelling in the terminal after his passport wasn’t returned immediately.

Might as well have just walked through the airport with a sign around his neck saying “I’m breaking the law, arrest me!!”

21 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:40:18pm

re: #12 Gus

Point I was making last night.

Cause it was on somebody else’s dime.

22 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:40:25pm

re: #12 Gus

Frequent flier miles? Expense account required routing through UK, since it was on the Guardian’s dime?

Abject stupidity?

Occam’s Razor - the simplest explanation is probably right…

23 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:40:42pm

re: #19 Amory Blaine

When you care to send the best.

24 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:41:11pm

re: #22 lawhawk

Frequent flier miles? Expense account required routing through UK, since it was on the Guardian’s dime?

Abject stupidity?

Occam’s Razor - the simplest explanation is probably right…

Hanlon’s razor.

25 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:42:58pm

The Onion has more credibility than the Guardian.

26 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:43:14pm

The duty free store in Heathrow is the shiznit!

27 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:43:47pm

i like this post we’re commenting on here since it focuses on the issues involved in surveillance and not the personalities

28 Dr. Matt  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:44:40pm

Funny stuff:

29 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:45:18pm

re: #27 dog philosopher

i like this post we’re commenting on here since it focuses on the issues involved in surveillance and not the personalities

Argle bargle.

30 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:45:34pm

Something I’ve been wondering about…
GG said that he had everything that Snowden had. So what did Laura have in Berlin that GG didn’t already have?

31 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:48:16pm

Oh cmon you guys are just a bunch of croc-wearing authoritarian loving lickspittles! ///

32 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:48:53pm

re: #31 Bulworth

Oh cmon you guys are just a bunch of croc-wearing authoritarian loving lickspittles! ///

“Croc-wearing”?! I take offense to that!

33 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:49:22pm

Greenwald throws out Ellsberg’s name every chance he gets as proof he’s doing right.

That might be Snowden, if Ellsberg had fled the US to China and then Russia seeking asylum instead of defending his position in the US and faced US justice.

But Greenwald’s the journalist in this. The better question is #WhatWouldErniePyleDo? Would he release classified intel on ops, methods, and means? Would he threaten to release even more unless he gets his way?

No, and no.

Pyle was a wartime reporter. His life was on the line, and he wasn’t about to risk the lives of others either. But he got the story across.

Greenwald isn’t a reporter. He’s an advocate for a specific worldview, and his actions are in furtherance of that worldview. Hamstring the NSA and the US intel services, ignoring the same of other countries, and threatening to do the same to the UK.

34 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:50:19pm

Benjamin Wittes should be Obamas Press Secretary.

35 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:50:53pm

re: #28 Dr. Matt

Funny stuff:

[Embedded content]

From the book, HOw to Avoid Big Ships:
“Capt. Trimmer’s advice would have been immensely beneficial to humans, fish, seabirds, and other animals, but I am none of those things. I’m a big rock.”

36 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:52:04pm

re: #12 Gus

Point I was making last night.

[Embedded content]

Since the Guardian paid for the trip, wouldn’t surprise me if they got a better deal on the tickets by connecting through Heathrow.

37 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:52:55pm
38 abolitionist  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:54:07pm

re: #30 Backwoods_Sleuth

Something I’ve been wondering about…
GG said that he had everything that Snowden had. So what did Laura have in Berlin that GG didn’t already have?

My guess: something put together from video of the 5 or so hours during which the parties were getting to know and trust each other at that initial meetup in HK, before the formal interview.

39 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:54:27pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

In same vein, if you’re sending links and you have no followers and aren’t following anyone, you are getting reported.

40 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:56:17pm

Which Israeli official?

41 geoffm33  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 12:57:12pm
42 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:00:02pm

re: #29 Gus

Argle bargle.

???

i’m not getting the message sent here

43 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:02:42pm

re: #34 Amory Blaine

Benjamin Wittes should be Obamas Press Secretary.

Wittes criticism of the administration is justified and his constructed response would have gone along way to demolish all of these contrived conspiracies and accusations. Had the admin got out in front.

44 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:04:26pm

re: #42 dog philosopher

???

i’m not getting the message sent here

It’s like “get off mah lawn!”

45 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:06:33pm
46 AntonSirius  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:06:36pm

re: #16 Backwoods_Sleuth

yep. Only reason to go to Heathrow was to cause a scene.

Over at Balloon Juice I’ve been having a disagreement with one of the front pagers, mistermix. He thinks Greenwald/Snowden are sitting on proof of recent NSA abuses, and are just waiting for the right time to release them. I told him that was extremely unlikely (and stupid, because the lack of evidence of abuses is maybe the biggest reason why I don’t believe what Greenwald is spouting.)

The Heathrow puppet show convinces me he’s got no aces up his sleeve. He’s got no evidence of NSA abuses under Obama, so he’s trying to gin some up.

Good luck with that, Glenn.

47 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:07:54pm

re: #44 Gus

It’s like “get off mah lawn!”

yah, ok, tonks mon, but um “get off mah lawn” i understand even less

48 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:08:17pm
49 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:08:47pm

In a way the administration not acting proactive about it is a bit conciliatory towards the GOP and right wing. This article allows the GOP to support the NSA as being fairly good stewards and dealing with the data within the limitations and framework as currently defined.

And they are not being required to yell and scream the other way since Obama is not there at a podium saying the same thing as the article.

Sad.

50 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:09:11pm

re: #48 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Fucking ghouls.

51 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:09:35pm

re: #47 dog philosopher

yah, ok, tonks mon, but um “get off mah lawn” i understand even less

Never mind. Thought you were being snarky.

52 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:10:00pm

re: #48 Lidane

and if the pictures are somehow actually released, the tinfoil crowd will scream “photoshop!!!111!!!”

53 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:11:01pm

re: #44 Gus

It’s like “get off mah lawn!”

It is? Not gibberish as in “Argle bargle morble whoosh” from Bored of the Rings? (possible spelling errors here.)

54 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:11:08pm

Harvey: Gays Seek to ‘Absorb the Personality and Identity of Another Person’

Linda Harvey of Mission America explained today that gays and lesbians are attracted to people of the same-sex because they are empty inside and seek to “absorb” the personalities of others. “Those who have left homosexuality,” Harvey said, talk about how “they’ve once felt empty” and as a result want “to absorb the personality and identity of another person, even someone of the same sex because the vacant feeling inside is so great.” “When others seem to have meaning and purpose, the feelings of self-pity can be overwhelming,” she continued.

Um, no.

55 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:11:58pm

so, i mean re surveillance abuse as i was saying yesterday i think the issue is what would this look like if it did happen - how could the information being gathered be used to harm innocent citizens?

it’s like learning how to code, or for that matter, drive, defensively

56 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:11:59pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

and if the pictures are somehow actually released, the tinfoil crowd will scream “photoshop!!!111!!!”

If the pictures are released, Obama will get blamed for any violence it spawns.

“If Obummer hadn’t killed OBL there wouldn’t be pictures for the terrorists to kill Americans over!”

////

57 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:12:15pm

re: #52 Backwoods_Sleuth

We’ll suddenly have thousands of OBL “experts” from Drudge and FoxNation to declare how they’re sure that it isn’t OBL in the photo, and that they have “concerns”, etc.

58 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:12:41pm

re: #54 Kragar

Harvey: Gays Seek to ‘Absorb the Personality and Identity of Another Person’

Um, no.

That quote is so monumentally nonsensical it is hard to know where to start with it.

59 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:12:46pm

re: #54 Kragar

Harvey: Gays Seek to ‘Absorb the Personality and Identity of Another Person’

Um, no.

Somebody’s been watching Invasion of the Body Snatchers one too many times.

60 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:13:10pm

re: #54 Kragar

Harvey: Gays Seek to ‘Absorb the Personality and Identity of Another Person’

Yeah I totally read about this in the DSM IV!

Wait no that was Harry Potter

61 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:13:19pm

re: #48 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Doesn’t Snowden and Greenwald already have those pictures?

63 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:15:12pm
64 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:16:00pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

Good. The sooner that total fucking sleazebag is out of office the sooner the people of San Diego can move on with their lives.

65 danarchy  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:16:40pm

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

I don’t know, I think they just might be confused:

Cheetah 1 “Why isn’t it running?”

Cheetah 2 “I dunno, must be some kind of a trick.”

Cheetah 1 *lick* “Tastes normal, take a bite.”

Cheetah 2 “No way man, you take a bite”

66 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:17:51pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

His official recall effort started today. The organizers had people scattered around town today to get recall petitions signed.

67 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:17:56pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

10 gets you 20 he’s trying to work out an immunity deal from sexual harassment charges in exchange for his resignation.

68 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:18:47pm

re: #60 erik_t

Yeah I totally read about this in the DSM IV!

Wait no that was Harry Potter

It has it’s own section in DSM V.

69 Jack Burton  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:19:35pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Oh I hope so. This whole situation has become tiresome.

70 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:20:40pm

re: #63 NJDhockeyfan

Meeting behind the dumpster at Bada Bings.

71 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:21:19pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

10 gets you 20 he’s trying to work out an immunity deal from sexual harassment charges in exchange for his resignation.

Good luck with that. What is it now, 19 women so far? He would have to have every one of them agree, correct?

72 AntonSirius  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:22:38pm
73 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:23:59pm

re: #71 NJDhockeyfan

Good luck with that. What is it now, 19 women so far? He would have to have every one of them agree, correct?

Pretty much. He was trying to get the city to pick up the expenses when it was only a 1/4 of that and the city responded by taking his ass to court over it. Can’t begin to imagine what he thinks he can con the city into agreeing to in exchange for his immediate resignation.

74 AntonSirius  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:24:08pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

Somebody’s been watching Invasion of the Body Snatchers one too many times.

Should’ve known someone would beat to to it.

75 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:25:32pm

re: #74 AntonSirius

Should’ve known someone would beat to to it.

Well, it was either that or The Puppet Masters.

76 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:26:26pm

re: #65 danarchy

I don’t know, I think they just might be confused:

Cheetah 1 “Why isn’t it running?”

Cheetah 2 “I dunno, must be some kind of a trick.”

Cheetah 1 *lick* “Tastes normal, take a bite.”

Cheetah 2 “No way man, you take a bite”

Is Cheetah 3’s name “Mikey”?

77 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:26:38pm

Benedict Cumberbatch Has An Awesome Message For The Paparazzi

British actor Benedict Cumberbatch had a suggestion for the photographers camped outside the BBC Sherlock set Saturday in Cardiff, Wales. As he exited his trailer, Cumberbatch hid his face behind a hooded jacket and glasses and held up a sign reading, “Go photograph Egypt and show the world something important.”

78 b.d.  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:27:22pm

Is the UK on its knees yet?

79 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:27:36pm

re: #54 Kragar

Harvey: Gays Seek to ‘Absorb the Personality and Identity of Another Person’

Um, no.

I think that one is even more stupid than the cannibalism sodomy merit badge one. Way to go Linda. .

80 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:27:38pm

Well, isn’t this just precious? The Guardian now has a David Miranda page.

theguardian.com

81 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:29:31pm

re: #77 NJDhockeyfan

Benedict Cumberbatch Has An Awesome Message For The Paparazzi

But that would involve actual journalism and actual work. Much easier to photograph an actor filming the next series of his show.

///

82 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:31:23pm

re: #78 b.d.

Is the UK on its knees yet?

Yep. Greenwald’s tweets and interviews are more damaging than The Blitz.
////

83 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:31:35pm

re: #54 Kragar

And people who pursue opposite sex relationships never experience feelings of emptiness. Confirmed. FACT. /

84 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:31:46pm

OK, I had to join in the hashtag fun:

85 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:32:38pm

re: #48 Lidane

I hope those never come to light. Riots and endless conspiracy theories will be the result I fear.

86 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:34:48pm
87 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:36:41pm

Now that I think about it, more than likely Filner’s attorney is trying to work out some sort of “severance package,” with the “negotiations” being how many zeroes the city is willing to put on a check to make Filner just go away.

88 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:37:57pm

re: #80 Justanotherhuman

Well, isn’t this just precious? The Guardian now has a David Miranda page.

theguardian.com

We need a Miranda ribbon. You wear it under your clothes. Never forget.

89 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:38:40pm

re: #85 Political Atheist

I hope those never come to light. Riots and endless conspiracy theories will be the result I fear.

That’s what the government has been saying all along, but Judicial Watch disagrees because Obama.

90 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:38:51pm

re: #87 Targetpractice

Now that I think about it, more than likely Filner’s attorney is trying to work out some sort of “severance package,” with the “negotiations” being how many zeroes the city is willing to put on a check to make Filner just go away.

Good idea-how about nothing but zeros?

91 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:40:17pm

re: #90 calochortus

Good idea-how about nothing but zeros?

Sounds about right. “You get NOTHING! Good day sir!”

What can he really threaten with? Refusing to leave office until he’s recalled?

92 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:41:12pm

re: #88 Amory Blaine

We need a Miranda ribbon. You wear it under your clothes. Never forget.

Every time I hear the name Miranda I’m reminded of the movie Serenity. It’s almost appropriate, really.

I can’t help it. I’m a nerd.

93 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:41:15pm

re: #83 Bulworth

And people who pursue opposite sex relationships never experience feelings of emptiness. Confirmed. FACT. /

THEY ARE FILLED WITH THE LOVE OF JESUS!

/throws a bible at you

94 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:41:42pm

re: #91 Targetpractice

I’m guessing he’s going to say paying him off is cheaper than running a recall election. To paraphrase: Millions for a recall election but not one red cent for a payoff.

95 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:42:59pm

re: #94 calochortus

I’m guessing he’s going to say paying him off is cheaper than running a recall election. To paraphrase: Millions for a recall election but not one red cent for a payoff.

I’d say fuck it, bring on the recall. The city already went to court over refusal to pay his legal bills, paying him to leave would be accomplishing the same goal.

96 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:54:32pm

Were I negotiating on the city’s behalf, the terms to Filner would be that he can not only go to Hell, I’ll give him directions. There will be no “severance,” there will be no help fighting off the legal consequences of his actions, and there will be no papering over of his stupidity. Either he leaves now while he still has some shred of dignity or he gets drug out after the voters recall his ass. There is no third option.

97 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 1:55:21pm

And now, back to constructive activities.

BBL

98 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:01:33pm

re: #96 Targetpractice

Were I negotiating on the city’s behalf, the terms to Filner would be that he can not only go to Hell, I’ll give him directions. There will be no “severance,” there will be no help fighting off the legal consequences of his actions, and there will be no papering over of his stupidity. Either he leaves now while he still has some shred of dignity or he gets drug out after the voters recall his ass. There is no third option.

The only promise I’d give him is that if he doesn’t leave immediately, the city will sue him to cover the costs of the recall election.

99 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:03:22pm

if miranda was arrested in the united states, would he have the right to remain silent while wearing fruit on his head?

100 Dr. Matt  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:06:16pm
101 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:06:27pm

Another great piece about that Oversight & Compliance document:

102 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:07:30pm
103 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:08:45pm

Fischer & Mihet: Those Who Oppose ENDA Will Be Charged With Crimes Against Humanity

“If that is allowed to succeed in the Scott Lively case,” Mihet said, “then the very next and logical step would be to take anyone that would oppose legislation in ENDA in the US and to have the charged with international human rights violations, the most heinous of crimes, crimes against humanity, or persecution for doing nothing more than exercising their rights to speak their minds on an issue of public importance in the public square. At some point, we have to ask ourselves are we still a free country, governed by a constitution with a First Amendment or are we entering an era of fascism when it comes to this issue”.

If your opinion is that homosexuals should be executed, then you have no place in the public square, you disgusting shitsouled bigots.

104 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:11:24pm
105 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:15:23pm

re: #102 Charles Johnson

Apologies if you saw the Page already, but curious as to what you might this of the Jim Sensenbrenner article from today LA Times. Setting aside the reference to the Wa Post stuff, he makes an interesting statement about the “relevance” term from the Patriot Act. His point-Too broad a view of the term to hold up in anything but a FISA court. Interesting he authored a lot of the PA. If not for that I might have dismissed this out of hand.

107 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:16:25pm

re: #104 OhNoZombies!

Offered water and a lawyer apparently…

Who to believe?
//

They were threatening me all the time and saying I would be put in jail if I didn’t co-operate,” said Miranda. “They treated me like I was a criminal or someone about to attack the UK … It was exhausting and frustrating, but I knew I wasn’t doing anything wrong.”

Except for carrying stolen NSA files, then yes you weren’t doing anything wrong.

108 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:17:43pm
109 Carlos Danger  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:18:23pm

I dunno why a Balloon Juice frontpager would link to a Ted Rall cartoon. That guy has a visceral hatred for Obama and once complained about Condoleezza Rice’s “white” hairstyle, fer chrissakes.

110 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:18:57pm
111 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:19:19pm

Man, if you’re GOP and Rubin still thinks you should go, you’re fucked.

Jennifer Rubin: Gov. Bob McDonnell Should Resign

112 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:19:51pm

re: #109 Carlos Danger

I dunno why a Balloon Juice frontpager would link to Ted Rall cartoon. That guy has a visceral hatred for Obama and once complained about Condoleezza Rice’s “white” hairstyle, fer chrissakes.

Ted Rall is a festering boil on the ass of humanity.

113 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:23:40pm

re: #111 Kragar

Man, if you’re GOP and Rubin still thinks you should go, you’re fucked.

Jennifer Rubin: Gov. Bob McDonnell Should Resign

That’s probably the only valid purpose she serves at the Post - the “totally fucked” indicator.

114 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:24:09pm
115 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:24:28pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Wait, you mean the Guardian didn’t give us the whole story from the beginning? Inconceivable!!

//

116 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:27:43pm

Couldn’t roamer errors largely be prevented by taking cell tower location into account? Once a tap on the phone starts returning towers located in the domestic US then it triggers an automatic review?

Maybe this is what’s happening and the first return is still called an “error.”

117 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:31:14pm


Image: jaw_dropping_gif_by_buddycomics-d5cwwjy.gif

118 Carlos Danger  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:31:34pm
119 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:33:16pm
120 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:35:31pm

Oh boy, Fischer had a “Photoshop Expert” on his show today.

Image: 29147809.jpg

121 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:35:39pm
122 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:36:24pm
123 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:38:27pm

re: #122 wrenchwench

‘They said I would be put in jail if I didn’t cooperate’

Why, go to jail for not cooperating with lawful authorities?! That’s the same thing those non-journalist little people hear!

Seriously, what a goddamned nothingburger.

124 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:39:16pm

re: #122 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Yeah, that is generally what happens when you break the law.

125 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:40:04pm

re: #123 erik_t

Why, go to jail for not cooperating with lawful authorities?! That’s the same thing those non-journalist little people hear!

Seriously, what a goddamned nothingburger.

The photo looks like it’s from the soon-to-be-made motion picture.

126 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:40:15pm

re: #117 Kragar

Dear Bryan,

Infertile couples adopt too, you ghoulish, sanctimonious piece of shit.

No love,
Me

127 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:41:25pm
128 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:41:33pm

Oops.

129 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:41:34pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

The photo looks like it’s from the soon-to-be-made motion picture.

Teh GG’s face is rapidly become more punchable-looking than Snowboy, which I did not expect to happen.

130 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:41:37pm

Afternoon/evening Lizardim from the hot and humid wild north country. Having a brief Indian summer for a few days, which I’m sure the crops are drinking up despite the lack of rain. How go things among the lizardfolk?

131 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:42:18pm

wtf?!

132 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:42:19pm

re: #129 erik_t

Teh GG’s face is rapidly become more punchable-looking than Snowboy, which I did not expect to happen.

They are full of surprises of just that sort.

133 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:43:47pm


Fixed.

134 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:43:53pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

wtf?!

[Embedded content]

I see that is someone I have blocked at some point in the past. What a surprise.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:44:27pm
136 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:45:50pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

Something says that this analysis is about as thoughtful as the guy at the Air Force Academy saying Doctor Who is racist.

137 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:47:32pm

God, this is the Nigel Tufnel of smug. Goes right on up to eleven.

138 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:47:54pm

re: #136 ProTARDISLiberal

Something says that this analysis is about as thoughtful as the guy at the Air Force Academy saying Doctor Who is racist.

nah, dr who is on first

139 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:50:21pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

wtf?!

[Embedded content]

Talking about GG = gay bashing? Whodathunk?

140 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:51:36pm
141 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:51:59pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

wtf?!

[Embedded content]

So, where exactly did the “gay bashing” occur? I read the page and couldn’t find it.

142 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:52:12pm

re: #134 wrenchwench

I see that is someone I have blocked at some point in the past. What a surprise.

And he has ‘Charles Johnson’ and ‘Little Green Footballs’ tags at his blog, and knows Charles’s middle name. Stalker.

143 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:53:23pm
144 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:54:24pm

re: #141 Kragar

So, where exactly did the “gay bashing” occur? I read the page and couldn’t find it.

Maybe he just missed the link he wanted. The article he linked is right next to the one about the Boy Scouts.

Wait, that wouldn’t make sense either.

145 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:55:06pm

“Hi, I’m Larry the cable guy. Here to connect your cable. Oh, I’m also a journalist so if you catch me rummaging in your bed room I’m it’s part my investigative journalism.”

146 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:55:35pm

re: #144 wrenchwench

Maybe he just missed the link he wanted. The article he linked is right next to the one about the Boy Scouts.

Wait, that wouldn’t make sense either.

You beat me to it.
That has to be it.

147 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:55:57pm

re: #142 wrenchwench

And he has ‘Charles Johnson’ and ‘Little Green Footballs’ tags at his blog, and knows Charles’s middle name. Stalker.

Ah ha. It’s this guy: How to Get Banned From LGF.

Total whack job.

148 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:56:41pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

In other news, The GG says he is taking his ball and going home.

149 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:57:01pm

re: #146 OhNoZombies!

You beat me to it.
That has to be it.

It would make sense if one didn’t/couldn’t actually read…

150 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:57:27pm

What Mr. Miranda doesn’t seem to understand considerably is that he was in the UK, not Brazil. I saw how slyly he mentioned he was speaking in English, not his native language, so, of course, we’ll get the “I didn’t understand” BS from time to time from GG, along with the usual drum beating about his detention by British security. I suspect Mr. Miranda is rather experienced in being coy about not answering questions directly.

Next, the torture stories will emerge because there’s still not enough public outrage.

151 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:59:49pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

Ah ha. It’s this guy: How to Get Banned From LGF.

Total whack job.

Can you change your middle name to ‘Hussein’? That might be even more effective….

152 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 2:59:57pm

re: #131 Charles Johnson

apparently he thinks the Mr. Biggleswald picture is gay bashing.
whatever….

153 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:00:31pm

re: #149 OhNoZombies!

It would make sense if one didn’t/couldn’t actually read…

‘Illiterate’ was one of my first thoughts.

154 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:01:24pm

re: #152 Backwoods_Sleuth

apparently he thinks the Mr. Biggleswald picture is gay bashing.
whatever….

Actually, this guy is seriously disturbed.

155 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:02:53pm

Mark Levin: Obama wants ‘an abortion in every household’

“You know, it used to be a chicken in every pot, well, under this administration, it’s an abortion in every household,” Levin opined. “So the cycle of death, the mindset of death that is liberalism is proposed and promoted at every turn.”

156 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:04:42pm

re: #147 Charles Johnson

So he uses the word “fag” as an insult, then accuses LGF of being homophobic? Maybe he’s mentally ill?
Someone gently ask the poor soul if he has taken his meds lately.

157 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:04:44pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

Actually, this guy is seriously disturbed.

I can see that from his tweets. But he said in one of the tweets that it was that particular picture.

158 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:05:31pm

re: #155 Kragar

there is no reasoning with these people.

159 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:06:49pm

re: #156 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!

You always have the best nics.

160 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:07:01pm

re: #155 Kragar

Mark Levin: Obama wants ‘an abortion in every household’

Yeah sure he does Mark just like you molest your kids. See, two can make totally unfounded allegations but the difference is I don’t believe that.

161 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:07:45pm

re: #155 Kragar

Mark Levin: Obama wants ‘an abortion in every household’

Well, shit…..Levin’s figured out the game plan.

Won’t be long now before he figures out the rest.

The all-new, all-gay American military will show up at the household of every Christian fundamentalist, declare their marriage null and void, take their children off to the junior re-education camps, and cart off mom and dad to be joined in matrimony with their new same-sex spouse.

Image: triple_facepalm_by_spottedheart98464-d3kuyp3.png

162 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:07:54pm

re: #158 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!

there is no reasoning with these people.

This ones for you…

Youtube Video

163 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:07:59pm

re: #158 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!

there is no reasoning with these people.

Nope none at all. This isn’t policy disagreement, this is you think because I support legal abortions, I want to force abortion on people. Levin is sick.

164 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:08:19pm

re: #46 AntonSirius

I’ve stopped going to Balloon Juice due to SnowBro cult worshippers mistermix and Cole. You will get nowhere with them.

165 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:09:24pm

re: #163 HappyWarrior

Nope none at all. This isn’t policy disagreement, this is you think because I support legal abortions, I want to force abortion on people. Levin is sick.

These are the some folks who think if SSM is legal, they will be forced to divorce their wives.

166 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:10:12pm

re: #164 urbanmeemaw

I’ve stopped going to Balloon Juice due to SnowBro cult worshippers mistermix and Cole. You will get nowhere with them.

I’m moving that direction myself. Unfortunate, because I’d generally found it to be a good and insightful place (at least on the front page).

167 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:10:31pm

re: #165 Kragar

These are the some folks who think if SSM is legal, they will be forced to divorce their wives.

They need psychiatric help. SSM being legal has no effect on them unless Levin wants to leave his wife for a dude.

168 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:11:19pm

I give up though. No one in the so called mainstream right calls out this shit because they care more about their party having power than principle.

169 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:12:16pm
170 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:12:40pm

re: #159 wrenchwench

You always have the best nics.

I’m boringly straight, but I think I’m wanted in Virginia.

171 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:12:49pm

re: #162 Kragar

This ones for you…

[Embedded content]

You are an endless font of … whatever that was…

172 Mattand  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:13:24pm

If you need a laugh, check out the comments section of this Wonkette article:

Glenn Greenwald Gives British Government A Right Jolly Rogering, Will Probably Never Shut Up About It

Easily, one of the funniest, smartest comments sections on the web.

I mean, besides this one, of course.

173 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:13:43pm

re: #162 Kragar

That was quite possibly, one of the best musical numbers I have ever seen.

174 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:13:51pm

re: #168 HappyWarrior

I give up though. No one in the so called mainstream right calls out this shit because they care more about their party having power than principle.

Another version of ‘there is no such things as a moderate Republican these days’. GOP leaders are mean and crazy themselves and/or are pandering to the mean and crazy GOP base.

175 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:14:01pm

re: #173 I Earned My Sodomy Merit Badge!

That was quite possibly, one of the best musical numbers I have ever seen.

lol

176 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:16:06pm

9 Hours in Heathrow: A Personal Account by Journalist David Miranda

177 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:16:47pm

re: #174 EPR-radar

Another version of ‘there is no such things as a moderate Republican these days’. GOP leaders are mean and crazy themselves and/or are pandering to the mean and crazy GOP base.

They’re enablers and why the GOP gets away with nominating horrible people like Cuccinelli, King, Akin, etc.

178 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:17:34pm

re: #176 Gus

9 Hours in Heathrow: A Personal Account by Journalist David Miranda

Does it end with a Brazilian special ops team breaking him out?

179 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:17:38pm

re: #176 Gus

9 Hours in Heathrow: A Personal Account by Journalist David Miranda

He’s just upset because they didn’t serve him tea and biscuits.

180 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:17:42pm

re: #171 wrenchwench

You are an endless font of … whatever that was…

One of Peter Jackson’s works, before he got around to LOTR

181 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:18:07pm

re: #143 Gus

[Embedded content]

I will destroy Canada!

..
.
See? Still here.

182 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:18:21pm

re: #164 urbanmeemaw

I’ve stopped going to Balloon Juice due to SnowBro cult worshippers mistermix and Cole. You will get nowhere with them.

I will point out that’s how echo chambers get formed; only listening to those with whom you agree.

I think Greenwald is a bloviating narcissist and Snowden is just this side of being a traitor. On the other hand there has been a lot of ‘we’re not doing this’ — [document release] — ‘here’s what that really means’ event in this mess. Bottom line for me is that it means I’m still waiting to see what the eventual fall out might be.

183 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:18:36pm

re: #107 NJDhockeyfan

Wah!!!! WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! Where is my blankie? They took my blankie!!!! You know, I just love all of these dudebros who want to compare these assholes with MLK. I’m sure any of you who watched demonstrators being attacked by dogs and firehosed, or who watched MLK on TV, remember when he whined and cried about about that mean bully Bull Connor and he was never ever ever going back to Alabama again!!! Right? You all saw that, right? Bueller? Anyone?

184 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:18:39pm

re: #172 Mattand

If you need a laugh, check out the comments section of this Wonkette article:

Glenn Greenwald Gives British Government A Right Jolly Rogering, Will Probably Never Shut Up About It

Easily, one of the funniest, smartest comments sections on the web.

I mean, besides this one, of course.

I went to your link, I read the article, then I automatically closed the tab, because I never read the comments anywhere but here. I forgot that the comments were why I clicked.

185 piratedan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:18:49pm

re: #179 thedopefishlives

or that they didn’t have the Brazilian league replay up on the telly.

186 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:20:13pm

re: #172 Mattand

lol.

It is no secret that yr Wonkette thinks Glenn Greenwald is a screechy, self-aggrandizing jackwagon whose NSA scoops have been over-hyped and overblown (WE UNDERSTAND THIS MAKES US TERRIBLE LIBERALS HITLER-LOVING FASCISTS WHO WOULD FELLATE DICK CHENEY AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY, BUT PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY SNEER AT US IN THE COMMENTS ANYWAY).

187 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:20:54pm

re: #177 HappyWarrior

They’re enablers and why the GOP gets away with nominating horrible people like Cuccinelli, King, Akin, etc.

Too true. If we do get bad crazy GOP in power at the Federal level in 2016, the people to blame will not really be the stupid and mean elements of the GOP base. They can’t help what they are.

It will be the enablers that vote GOP despite its descent into madness who will be most blameworthy.

188 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:21:02pm

re: #166 erik_t

I agree that there are some excellent posts on other important topics. But I just get too aggravated over there and I figure if I don’t like to visit a blog for whatever reason just stop clicking.

189 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:22:56pm

re: #187 EPR-radar

Too true. If we do get bad crazy GOP in power at the Federal level in 2016, the people to blame will not really be the stupid and mean elements of the GOP base. They can’t help what they are.

It will be the enablers that vote GOP despite its descent into madness who will be most blameworthy.

You know what’s sad is George Allen would look reasonable as the GOP nominee for governor here, George Allen but instead because the few GOP moderates are willing to stand up against the nutjobs, this state has a great shot of electing a man who wants to criminalize oral sex and his equally nutty running mate, a man who thinks Planned Parennhood is worse than the KKK.

190 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:23:02pm

Greenwald: Britain ‘Will Regret What They’ve Done’

A defiant Greenwald promised that he was going “to write much more aggressively than before” about government snooping.

“I’m going to publish many more things about England, as well,” he said in Portuguese at Rio’s international airport when Miranda arrived. “I have many documents about England’s espionage system, and now my focus will be there, too. I think they’ll regret what they’ve done.”

The GG is working on getting a horse’s head placed in a bed somewhere.

191 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:23:21pm

re: #176 Gus

UPDATE I: “Nine Hours In HELL-throw!!!!!”

192 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:24:02pm

re: #190 Kragar

Greenwald: Britain ‘Will Regret What They’ve Done’

The GG is working on getting a horse’s head placed in a bed somewhere.

He’s going to reveal that Queen Elizabeth is actually a man right, oops wrong Elizabeth and legend.

193 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:24:05pm

I really want to hear GG tell the British they will RUE THE DAY!

RUE!

194 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:24:06pm

re: #182 kirkspencer

I will point out that’s how echo chambers get formed; only listening to those with whom you agree.

I think Greenwald is a bloviating narcissist and Snowden is just this side of being a traitor. On the other hand there has been a lot of ‘we’re not doing this’ — [document release] — ‘here’s what that really means’ event in this mess. Bottom line for me is that it means I’m still waiting to see what the eventual fall out might be.

That’s pretty much my view as well. The reporting on the real issues has been horrible, and is also inherently difficult because of the secrecy surrounding most of the relevant policies.

196 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:26:13pm

The British response to GG;
Youtube Video

197 piratedan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:26:54pm

re: #188 urbanmeemaw

I gotta say, the posts that Kay puts up over there regarding the boots on the ground efforts and taking a look at the fight taking place at the local levels, with her emphasis on education and womens rights are always worth a look. Plus Tim F has some very good news in science insights over there as well. I read them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all but they do cause me to check myself more frequently than other blogs.

198 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:27:33pm

re: #195 Charles Johnson

Excuse me while I up to the chuck: David Miranda, Schedule 7 and the Danger That All Reporters Now Face | Alan Rusbridger | Comment Is Free | the Guardian

You know what danger reporters now face? Being in some chaotic terrifying mess like Egypt, collecting actual information about a thing that is actually happening at considerable personal risk, then reporting on it. While being an actual reporter.

Sitting your ass in customs. Ooga-booga! Christ.

199 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:27:48pm
200 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:29:06pm

re: #182 kirkspencer

I don’t think any of their actions were done in good faith with good intent. I think they have an agenda, or are unwitting/witting tools of a much larger agenda. So right, wrong or indifferent, I don’t have any patience with those who sympathize with them. That may sound irrational and/or tin-foily, and if it does to you or anyone else I can truly understand that.

201 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:29:20pm

re: #189 HappyWarrior

Planned Parennhood is worse than the KKK.

if plants can adapt children now, what’s next?

202 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:30:24pm

re: #172 Mattand

If you need a laugh, check out the comments section of this Wonkette article:

Glenn Greenwald Gives British Government A Right Jolly Rogering, Will Probably Never Shut Up About It

Easily, one of the funniest, smartest comments sections on the web.

I mean, besides this one, of course.

One commenter complains of homophobia because Greenwald is being criticized. Otherwise, some witty ones for sure!

203 Carlos Danger  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:30:32pm

re: #188 urbanmeemaw

I dunno, I stopped reading regularly about when Anne Laurie became a front pager. Her sloppy fact checking and personality began the polarization of the commentariat.

TimF and Kay are the best bloggers on that site. They actually talk about real policy and cut through the drama.

204 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:30:35pm

The Guardian

do they have page 3 girls?

205 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:31:19pm

Jeepers creepers we pay billions in farm subsidies to grow corn and they’re charging 5 dollars for a dozen ears at the grocer.

206 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:32:22pm

re: #197 piratedan

I totally agree. And Betty Cracker is a hoot!!!

207 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:33:00pm

re: #205 Amory Blaine

Jeepers creepers we pay billions in farm subsidies to grow corn and they’re charging 5 dollars for a dozen ears at the grocer.

you’re supposed to personally cut the ears off of the enemy soldiers you have killed

buying them at the grocer is cheating

208 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:34:17pm

re: #205 Amory Blaine

Jeepers creepers we pay billions in farm subsidies to grow corn and they’re charging 5 dollars for a dozen ears at the grocer.

The subsidies wind up going to ethanol. I’m all for environmentally friendly alternatives to fossil fuels, but ethanol production eating up all of our corn isn’t terribly wise, either.

209 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:36:16pm

re: #208 thedopefishlives

The subsidies wind up going to ethanol. I’m all for environmentally friendly alternatives to fossil fuels, but ethanol production eating up all of our corn isn’t terribly wise, either.

Kind of like letting oil companies to drain out the reservoirs to frack for oil, while the towns run out of drinking water.

210 Mattand  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:36:23pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

One commenter complains of homophobia because Greenwald is being criticized. Otherwise, some witty ones for sure!

I never made the promise it was 100% emoprog free, LOL!

Fortunately, I missed that one. But speaking of which, I’m surprised Greenwald hasn’t trotted out that accusation.

Yet.

211 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:37:20pm

re: #210 Mattand

I never made the promise it was 100% emoprog free, LOL!

Fortunately, I missed that one. But speaking of which, I’m surprised Greenwald hasn’t trotted out that accusation.

Yet.

He sent it out to be done.

212 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:37:39pm

re: #210 Mattand

I never made the promise it was 100% emoprog free, LOL!

Fortunately, I missed that one. But speaking of which, I’m surprised Greenwald hasn’t trotted out that accusation.

Yet.

I’m sure it will happen once he realizes comparing Snowden to Daniel Ellsworth and himself to Woodward and Bernstein is stale.

213 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:39:07pm

re: #201 dog philosopher

if plants can adapt children now, what’s next?

Children of the Corn, of course.

214 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:39:30pm

re: #195 Charles Johnson

Excuse me while I up to the chuck: David Miranda, Schedule 7 and the Danger That All Reporters Now Face | Alan Rusbridger | Comment Is Free | the Guardian

WTF is this? Anyone can be a “journalist” now?

“Miranda’s professional status - much hand-wringing about whether or not he’s a proper “journalist - is largely irrelevant in these circumstances. Increasingly, the question about who deserves protection should be less “is this a journalist?” than “is the publication of this material in the public interest?”

Lawless “journalism”—how does it work? At least I had a year of journalism in 9th grade and still know what facts and objectivity mean.

What Rusbridger is really saying is that anyone, in possession of any material, even if it’s illegal, should have the right to sell it to the highest bidder/least ethical publisher, and shouldn’t be bothered by pesky laws if they make a unilateral decision that it’s “in the public interest”.

I don’t call that “journalism”.

215 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:39:42pm

re: #213 Feline Fearless Leader

Children of the Corn, of course.

Daycare of the Triffids.

216 Mattand  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:40:08pm

re: #213 Feline Fearless Leader

Children of the Corn, of course.

Winning comment of the day. Turn in your internet boxes and go home.

217 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:40:28pm

re: #215 Decatur Deb

Daycare of the Triffids.

Romper Room of the Rhododendrons.

218 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:42:09pm

re: #217 darthstar

Romper Room of the Rhododendrons.

Pod People Employment Agency

“What do you mean you have a problem with the temps suddenly pointing and screeching at people?”

219 b.d.  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:42:39pm

The sun never sets on the DudeBro outrage machine.

220 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:42:48pm


There’s a guy around here with a ‘stache like that. He calls me ‘mija’, even though he’s only a few years older than me.

221 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:43:23pm

re: #198 erik_t

You know what danger reporters now face? Being in some chaotic terrifying mess like Egypt, collecting actual information about a thing that is actually happening at considerable personal risk, then reporting on it. While being an actual reporter.

Sitting your ass in customs. Ooga-booga! Christ.

No shit. Last month a Dutch reporter was gang raped in Tahrir Square, she had to be hospitalized and required surgery. She’s complained less and there’s been far less outrage about her experience than the collective team SnowGreen bitch-fest over Miranda’s nine hours of questioning while ferrying stolen classified documents.

222 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:43:36pm

re: #218 Feline Fearless Leader

Pod People Employment Agency

“What do you mean you have a problem with the temps suddenly pointing and screeching at people?”

Youtube Video

I hate it when the temps do this; it’s a damned annoying sound.

223 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:43:54pm
224 b.d.  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:44:32pm

Does The Guardian have any nepotism guidelines?

225 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:46:01pm

re: #224 b.d.

Does The Guardian have any nepotism guidelines?

Guardian+Guidelines=LOL

226 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:46:05pm

re: #209 Kragar

Kind of like letting oil companies to drain out the reservoirs to frack for oil, while the towns run out of drinking water.

I’ve been big on soy diesel for a while. Diesel engines get inherently better fuel mileage than a gas engine of comparable size and power (especially turbodiesels), have better power characteristics in the appropriate RPM range, and can burn just about anything for fuel if the injector pump is constructed robustly enough.

227 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:46:07pm
228 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:46:50pm

re: #224 b.d.

Does The Guardian have any nepotism guidelines?

Clearly not since they paid Miranda to execute this little stunt.

229 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:47:59pm

re: #223 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Can these dimwits start to understand that undermining an anti-terrorist intell effort (be it abusive or not) falls within the scope of terrorism? They’re just starting to sound dense.

230 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:49:06pm
231 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:50:06pm

Meanwhile, on the road to 3rd world country status.

Texas begins replacing paved roads with gravel due to lack of funding

The oil and gas boom in Texas has produced an unintended effect: The state plans to covert some roads to gravel to save money.

The oversized vehicles and overweight loads used by energy companies has had a devastating impact on many roads, but the state has not appropriated enough money to fix them.

The Texas Department of Transportation began converting more than 80 miles of paved roads to gravel on Monday, according to the Texas Tribune. The speed limit on the new gravel roads will be reduced to 30 mph.

232 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:50:15pm

re: #229 Decatur Deb

Can these dimwits just start to understand that undermining an anti-terrorist intell effort (be it abusive or not) falls within the scope of terrorism? They’re just starting to sound dense.

They’re being intentionally obtuse because they refuse to believe that their crusade is anything but that - a noble and righteous cause worth dying for, for which they will receive full pardon in the end.

233 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:50:50pm
234 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:50:56pm

Hey, I think the government of Mingo County, WV needs Federal Investigation.

A couple of really weird, troubling stories out of one county in West Virginia. First, the chief judge in the county has been arrested after what has to qualify as one of the most mind-boggling abuses of office I’ve ever heard of. Judge Michael Thornsbury had an affair with his married secretary Kim Woodruff. When she wanted to cut it off Thornsbury went on a four year crusade to frame Woodruff’s husband Robert of any number of crimes including drug possession, larceny and assault.

Meanwhile, Mingo’s the same county where we had that assassination of the County Sheriff earlier this year during what at first appeared (wrongly) to be a string of white supremacist murders across the country. Well it turns out that killing may be tied in some way to what appears to be a covered up rape from more than a decade ago. In 2001, Crum, the murdered sheriff, had sex in the backseat of a patrol car with an apparently barely conscious 19 year old women as two troopers sat in the front seats blaring the radio to drown out the noise. She claimed she’d been raped but police decided the sex was consensual and no charges were brought.

235 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:53:09pm

“You are the Fifth Estate.” Really?

Trailer: theguardian.com

Movie about Assange, Hollywood style. He wanted $1M for his “cooperation”.

236 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:53:47pm

re: #231 Kragar

Oil executives gotta eat ya know.

237 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:54:18pm

re: #231 Kragar

Meanwhile, on the road to 3rd world country status.

Texas begins replacing paved roads with gravel due to lack of funding

Make the oil industry pay for it.


I know, I know, who am I kidding.

238 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:54:28pm

re: #234 ProTARDISLiberal

Hey, I think the government of Mingo County, WV needs Federal Investigation.

Small town America; making Deliverance, Straw Dogs, and Breakdown seem like reasonable and plausible scenarios.

239 Lancelot Link  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:54:36pm

re: #206 urbanmeemaw

I totally agree. And Betty Cracker is a hoot!!!

She usually posts at Rumproast, one of the other hangouts of the Sane Left.

240 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:55:43pm

re: #237 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Make the oil industry pay for it.

I know, I know, who am I kidding.

Even Kentucky has had some success making the coal operators undo the damage of their oversized trucks.

241 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 3:56:31pm

re: #237 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Make the oil industry pay for it.

I know, I know, who am I kidding.

Why do you hate America?

242 Carlos Danger  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:01:14pm

re: #237 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Make the oil industry pay for it.

I know, I know, who am I kidding.

The free market will deliver from tyranny with multinationally-owned toll roads!

243 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:01:15pm
244 Jack Burton  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:01:54pm

re: #231 Kragar

Meanwhile, on the road to 3rd world country status.

Texas begins replacing paved roads with gravel due to lack of funding

So much for that “miracle”.

245 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:01:54pm

re: #243 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Um, what punishment?

246 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:02:08pm

re: #236 Amory Blaine

Oil executives gotta eat ya know.

Yeah, lobster and caviar.

247 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:02:22pm
248 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:02:57pm

re: #245 Gus

Um, what punishment?

Love GG defenders. They’re so full of semantics.

249 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:04:16pm

re: #247 darthstar

[Embedded content]

HE WAS A CROOK! Illegally transporting stolen classified information is a crime.

250 Carlos Danger  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:04:23pm

re: #244 Jack Burton

So much for that “miracle”.

Related:

Texas Gov. Rick Perry will be headlining the California Republican Party’s convention this fall, in an appearance that will surely kick up talk that he’s considering another presidential bid.

“Gov. Perry’s leadership is a major reason why Texas has emerged as one of America’s leading forces for economic opportunity and personal freedom, and we’re delighted that he accepted our invitation,” said Jim Brulte, chairman of the California GOP and a former state senator.

251 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:04:39pm

re: #248 darthstar

Love GG defenders. They’re so full of semantics.

Torture—wait for it.

252 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:05:34pm

re: #247 darthstar

[Embedded content]

You are too generous. A courier knows he’s a courier. Miranda says he didn’t know what he was carrying—a mule.

253 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:05:51pm

re: #247 darthstar

Thing is, he was ferrying information and documents he should not have had across international borders. Like the smugglers who ferry drugs from Mexico to the US.

He was a mule, pure and simple.

254 Jack Burton  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:06:10pm

re: #249 Kragar

HE WAS A CROOK! Illegally transporting stolen classified information is a crime.

Facts… they burnses us… precious.

255 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:06:12pm

re: #250 Carlos Danger

Par for the course for the CA GOP. They’ve responded to an inability to win at the statewide level in CA by radicalizing.

256 Carlos Danger  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:06:34pm

Three years changes a lot, doesn’t it?

Image: economist.jpg

257 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:06:38pm

re: #252 Decatur Deb

You are too generous. A courier knows he’s a courier. Miranda says he didn’t know what he was carrying—a mule.

This also presumes he is being honest. I see no reason to be so charitable with anyone in the Greenwaldsphere.

258 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:06:39pm
259 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:07:17pm

re: #253 ProTARDISLiberal

Thing is, he was ferrying information and documents he should not have had across international borders. Like the smugglers who ferry drugs from Mexico to the US.

He was a mule, pure and simple.

STOP DEGRADING HIM!

260 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:07:20pm

re: #255 EPR-radar

Par for the course for the CA GOP. They’ve responded to an inability to win at the statewide level in CA by radicalizing.

And it sounds like Oregon will be next. I’d rather have two functioning parties than one, but the GOP already is so dysfunctional… not sure they’ll be missed.

261 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:07:41pm

re: #250 Carlos Danger

Related:

“Move to Texas, where your drinking water will be leached away by oil companies, your car will be destroyed by our roads, but you can shoot women who refuse to have sex with you.”

262 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:07:46pm
263 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:07:48pm

Dear GG Supporters,
You argue like 9-11 truthers.
That is all.

264 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:07:56pm

re: #258 darthstar

I would be cautious about equating anti-US/anti-UK behavior with terrorism.

265 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:10pm

re: #262 Gus

STATE GOONS!

266 piratedan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:17pm

re: #259 darthstar
Yes, by all means, lets upgrade him to accomplice status, does that make everyone feel better?

267 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:17pm

re: #259 darthstar

STOP DEGRADING HIM!

LEAVE DAVID MIRANDA ALONE!

268 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:29pm

re: #236 Amory Blaine

Oil executives gotta eat ya know.

and free market principles allow them to choose who they eat

269 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:58pm

re: #264 EPR-radar

I would be cautious about equating anti-US/anti-UK behavior with terrorism.

Twitter limitations…actively trying to destroy national security programs…that’s enabling terrorism in my opinion.

270 Jack Burton  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:08:59pm

re: #259 darthstar

STOP DEGRADING HIM!

Fenster: They treat me like a criminal. I’ll end up a criminal.
Hockney: You are a criminal.
Fenster: Why you gotta go and do that? I’m trying to make a point.

271 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:10:31pm
272 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:10:49pm

re: #260 erik_t

And it sounds like Oregon will be next. I’d rather have two functioning parties than one, but the GOP already is so dysfunctional… not sure they’ll be missed.

Yep, looks like the Oregon GOP is radicalizing as well. They’ve been blown out the last couple of election cycles, so the wingnuts want to move the party even further to the right because conservative ideological purity.

273 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:11:29pm

re: #263 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Dear GG Supporters,
You argue like 9-11 truthers.
That is all.

Oh no you DI’INT!

274 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:12:12pm

re: #262 Gus

“OK with state goons destroying hard drives?”

Uh, no, I’m not “OK” with it, I’m skeptical that the Guardian is telling the whole story.

275 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:13:10pm

re: #270 Jack Burton

Fenster: They treat me like a criminal. I’ll end up a criminal.
Hockney: You are a criminal.
Fenster: Why you gotta go and do that? I’m trying to make a point.

So who in Wikileaks and Greenwaldia is actually Keyser Soze in mufti?

276 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:13:36pm

re: #274 Charles Johnson

“OK with state goons destroying hard drives?”

Uh, no, I’m not “OK” with it, I’m skeptical that the Guardian is telling the whole story.

If they kept dirty hard drives, they sure won’t be destroying them—evidence.

277 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:14:02pm

re: #264 EPR-radar

I would be cautious about equating anti-US/anti-UK behavior with terrorism.

Cautious, yes. Extremely cautious.

However, if the word fits the events in the final analysis, then call it what it is. I think a legitimate argument can be made that it’s the technically correct term.

278 ericblair  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:14:03pm

re: #274 Charles Johnson

“OK with state goons destroying hard drives?”

I’m pretty sure Miranda will get his hard drives back eventually.

279 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:14:32pm

re: #275 Feline Fearless Leader

So who in Wikileaks and Greenwaldia is actually Keyser Soze in mufti?

Greenwald specifically compared Laura Poitras as his Keyser.

280 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:14:37pm

re: #274 Charles Johnson

“OK with state goons destroying hard drives?”

Uh, no, I’m not “OK” with it, I’m skeptical that the Guardian is telling the whole story.

That’s from the From theguardian.com

A little over two months ago I was contacted by a very senior government official claiming to represent the views of the prime minister. There followed two meetings in which he demanded the return or destruction of all the material we were working on. The tone was steely, if cordial, but there was an implicit threat that others within government and Whitehall favoured a far more draconian approach.

The mood toughened just over a month ago, when I received a phone call from the centre of government telling me: “You’ve had your fun. Now we want the stuff back.” There followed further meetings with shadowy Whitehall figures. The demand was the same: hand the Snowden material back or destroy it. I explained that we could not research and report on this subject if we complied with this request. The man from Whitehall looked mystified. “You’ve had your debate. There’s no need to write any more.”

During one of these meetings I asked directly whether the government would move to close down the Guardian’s reporting through a legal route - by going to court to force the surrender of the material on which we were working. The official confirmed that, in the absence of handover or destruction, this was indeed the government’s intention. Prior restraint, near impossible in the US, was now explicitly and imminently on the table in the UK. But my experience over WikiLeaks - the thumb drive and the first amendment - had already prepared me for this moment. I explained to the man from Whitehall about the nature of international collaborations and the way in which, these days, media organisations could take advantage of the most permissive legal environments. Bluntly, we did not have to do our reporting from London. Already most of the NSA stories were being reported and edited out of New York. And had it occurred to him that Greenwald lived in Brazil?

The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian’s long history occurred - with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian’s basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. “We can call off the black helicopters,” joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.

281 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:15:06pm

re: #278 ericblair

I’m pretty sure Miranda will get his hard drives back eventually.

But his all-time high score will be erased.

282 b.d.  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:15:37pm

Glenn Greenwald and his Super Friends are above Earth law, they report to a higher power. What is so hard to understand about that?

//

283 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:15:40pm

Dubious seizure of personal property is absolutely a problem. It’s a HUGE HUGE problem. It’s just that it’s usually a problem that happens to unwealthy blah people, so we didn’t have to talk about it until just this exact moment right now.

284 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:16:02pm

re: #269 darthstar

Twitter limitations…actively trying to destroy national security programs…that’s enabling terrorism in my opinion.

I figured the twitter limit was relevant. Even so, I like to be a stickler for only using the really loaded terms (e.g., ‘treason’, ‘terrorism’ etc.) for cases that are a clear match.

The worst intelligence debacle imaginable pretty much can’t lead to legal charges worse than ‘espionage’.

285 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:19:04pm

Something tells me that the UK interest in the NSA stuff was kind of, meh. For most UK folks. Now, The Guardian has the GCHQ angle. Result! More UK interest in the story.

286 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:19:47pm

re: #280 Gus

That’s from the From theguardian.com

Why would they destroy the entire notebook? A drive is pretty simple to remove.

I’m not sure I accept this as written.

287 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:21:07pm

re: #277 erik_t

Cautious, yes. Extremely cautious.

However, if the word fits the events in the final analysis, then call it what it is. I think a legitimate argument can be made that it’s the technically correct term.

Well, if we start with a fairly standard definition of terrorism as ‘effecting political change by violence’, the antics of GG and Snowden are clearly missing the element of violence.

The House GOP is a closer match to ‘terrorism’ than GG/Snowden (e.g., their penchant for figurative hostage taking), and I would’t apply the term to the House GOP either.

288 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:22:24pm

re: #280 Gus

So, who was the govt “official” and who was the person from the “centre of government” who contacted Rusbridger? We’re supposed to believe all this when he doesn’t name names or give any real specifics?

And why would they destroy something that might be evidence of any crimes?

They don’t kept a raft of lawyers at The Guardian that are on call 24/7?

Fool, please.

289 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:23:21pm

re: #286 Just Here for the Cookies

Why would they destroy the entire notebook? A drive is pretty simple to remove.

I’m not sure I accept this as written.

Smashing notebooks is more fun.

290 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:23:24pm

re: #287 EPR-radar

Well, if we start with a fairly standard definition of terrorism as ‘effecting political change by violence’, the antics of GG and Snowden are clearly missing the element of violence.

The House GOP is a closer match to ‘terrorism’ than GG/Snowden (e.g., their penchant for figurative hostage taking), and I would’t apply the term to the House GOP either.

GG & Co are overtly trying to cripple an intelligence system designed to stop violent terrorism. They are aiding the bad guys. Would you want to go to a court in Lower Manhattan or Boston over the subtlty?

291 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:24:58pm

re: #290 Decatur Deb

GG & Co are overtly trying to cripple an intelligence system designed to stop violent terrorism. They are aiding the bad guys. Would you want to go to a court in Lower Manhattan or Boston over the subtlty?

Or in London?

292 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:25:04pm

re: #287 EPR-radar

Well, if we start with a fairly standard definition of terrorism as ‘effecting political change by violence’, the antics of GG and Snowden are clearly missing the element of violence.

The harmful action is not quite as direct, no. But we know actual people were actually harmed by Manning’s leaks, and an intelligent person could have predicted that ahead of time. Must one merely be obviously culpable, or does one need to actually pull the trigger?

That part isn’t obvious to me.

293 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:25:24pm

re: #291 Justanotherhuman

Or in London?

Or Madrid.

294 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:25:55pm

re: #293 Decatur Deb

Or Madrid.

Or Moscow?

295 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:27:21pm

This is starting to get old…

296 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:27:55pm

re: #294 Feline Fearless Leader

Or Moscow?

Certainly not Beslan, though I’m not sure of the linkage.

297 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:28:32pm

Well, if we start with a fairly standard definition of terrorism as ‘effecting political change by violence’

imho the definition of terrorism is using violent acts to attempt intimidate a civilian population into complying with your demands - merriam webster gives “the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion”

i think the term we want here re greenwald threatening to release documents embarrassing to the uk is “blackmail”

298 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:29:36pm

re: #290 Decatur Deb

GG & Co are overtly trying to cripple an intelligence system designed to stop violent terrorism. They are aiding the bad guys. Would you want to go to a court in Lower Manhattan or Boston over the subtlty?

No, I wouldn’t want to go to court over this distinction. However, it remains worth making. Terrorists are the bad guys that you shoot or drone on sight and congratulate yourself for a job well done.

I had my fill of making all of the bad guys into ‘terrorists’ in the Bush years, and have seen no reason to change my mind since then.

299 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:29:43pm

What the fuck?

300 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:32:09pm

re: #297 dog philosopher

Well, if we start with a fairly standard definition of terrorism as ‘effecting political change by violence’

imho the definition of terrorism is using violent acts to attempt intimidate a civilian population into complying with your demands - merriam webster gives “the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion”

i think the term we want here re greenwald threatening to release documents embarrassing to the uk is “blackmail”

Blackmail tends only to hurt the blackmailed. Teh GG is quite willing to put innocent third parties at risk to get what he wants.

This distinction is at least as important to me as whether or not the harm is direct or indirect.

301 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:33:53pm

re: #298 EPR-radar

No, I wouldn’t want to go to court over this distinction. However, it remains worth making. Terrorists are the bad guys that you shoot or drone on sight and congratulate yourself for a job well done.

I had my fill of making all of the bad guys into ‘terrorists’ in the Bush years, and have seen no reason to change my mind since then.

This is about the very same, very real bad guys—not some doofus smuggling grass. If GG and Snowden get to reshape US intell gathering to their satisfaction, AQ can dance in the street. FISA and the PActs are over-reach. A sneak thief and a pulitzer-monger are not the solution.

302 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:34:32pm

I can’t believe I got accused of hating someone I’ve never met by a flower I don’t even know. That hurts…not very much, mind you, but it hurts.

303 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:36:12pm

Holy shit! I am on the page here!

The Left Must Challenge Glenn Greenwald.

304 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:36:46pm

re: #300 erik_t

Blackmail tends only to hurt the blackmailed. Teh GG is quite willing to put innocent third parties at risk to get what he wants.

This distinction is at least as important to me as whether or not the harm is direct or indirect.

if the thought of what gg might reveal about uk government actions terrifies you, then yes

305 piratedan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:36:56pm

re: #302 darthstar

what you hate is the fact that this narcissistic agenda driven political gadfly is willing to compromise his own personal relationships by making his closest personal confident an accomplice (willing or not) to the transfer and exchange of documents procured illegally.

306 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:39:15pm
307 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:39:48pm

Remember the AGW denier we had a week ago? Surprise, surprise, a racism denier as well.

308 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:41:14pm

re: #307 Interesting Times

Remember the AGW denier we had a week ago? Surprise, surprise, a racism denier as well.

Color me surprised, heh.

309 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:45:05pm

re: #303 ProTARDISLiberal

One of the pictures was a fill-in-the-blank thing. I read one, and thought “this sounds like something I would say.”

Looked at the bottom. I did say it! I was using that to blow off steam, and forgot about it.

310 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:45:15pm

re: #301 Decatur Deb

This is about the very same, very real bad guys—not some doofus smuggling grass. If GG and Snowden get to reshape US intell gathering to their satisfaction, AQ can dance in the street. FISA and the PActs are over-reach. A sneak thief and a pulitzer-monger are not the solution.

I would accept the labeling of GG and Snowden as terrorists if they were acting under the direction of AQ or any other terrorist group in their attempts to screw up US intel operations.

Calling someone a ‘terrorist’ just because their actions benefit terrorists is casting the net much too wide. For example, one could argue that most of the Bush administration were terrorists for going into Iraq as AQ wanted, which is absurd.

Snowden should face espionage charges. Since espionage can be a capital crime if the Feds want to prosecute it that way, there doen’t seem to be any reason to tack on an allegation of terrorism that gives defenders of Snowden an easier topic to talk about than his real acts.

311 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:46:18pm

re: #306 darthstar

[Embedded content]

They have no clue what he says…
Awesome sheep you have there, Glenn.

312 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:46:35pm

re: #306 darthstar

[Embedded content]

313 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:48:58pm

re: #310 EPR-radar

I would accept the labeling of GG and Snowden as terrorists if they were acting under the direction of AQ or any other terrorist group in their attempts to screw up US intel operations.

Calling someone a ‘terrorist’ just because their actions benefit terrorists is casting the net much too wide. For example, one could argue that most of the Bush administration were terrorists for going into Iraq as AQ wanted, which is absurd.

Snowden should face espionage charges. Since espionage can be a capital crime if the Feds want to prosecute it that way, there doen’t seem to be any reason to tack on an allegation of terrorism that gives defenders of Snowden an easier topic to talk about than his real acts.

if you use the word “terrorism”, there has to be some element of “terror” involved - that is, somebody has to be intimidated by the fear of getting blown to bits if they don’t go along with the terrorist. that’s why bombings in public places are acts of terrorism

blackmail is not terror

314 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:51:37pm

re: #310 EPR-radar

I would accept the labeling of GG and Snowden as terrorists if they were acting under the direction of AQ or any other terrorist group in their attempts to screw up US intel operations.

Calling someone a ‘terrorist’ just because their actions benefit terrorists is casting the net much too wide. For example, one could argue that most of the Bush administration were terrorists for going into Iraq as AQ wanted, which is absurd.

Snowden should face espionage charges. Since espionage can be a capital crime if the Feds want to prosecute it that way, there doen’t seem to be any reason to tack on an allegation of terrorism that gives defenders of Snowden an easier topic to talk about than his real acts.

We are probably agreed on the desired outcomes from this badly-mangled affair Snowden will not face a death penalty, but he seems at least as culpable as Manning. Greenwald will stay safely outside the US until he becomes a local TV host somewhere. But I have no trouble with the British following the letter of their law to try to assess and limit the damage done to their security apparatus. And I’ve hung at Irish pubs with Noraid jars.

315 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:53:59pm

re: #313 dog philosopher

if you use the word “terrorism”, there has to be some element of “terror” involved - that is, somebody has to be intimidated by the fear of getting blown to bits if they don’t go along with the terrorist. that’s why bombings in public places are acts of terrorism

blackmail is not terror

The ‘terrorism’ angle comes from an illegal attack on an anti-terrorist effort. Don’t sell 7.62 to a nice Irish lad, even in Iowa.

316 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:57:15pm

re: #315 Decatur Deb

an illegal attack on an anti-terrorist effort

could you tell me what are you talking about and describe how the threat of physical harm if we don’t comply with the demands of the terrorist comes into it?

317 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 4:58:26pm

re: #316 dog philosopher

Later—on the phone.

318 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:02:28pm
319 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:03:48pm

re: #318 NJDhockeyfan

Good. Now, let’s detain Snowden and investigate Greenwald.

Snowden would be a slam-dunk in proving espionage, and with the way Greenwald has been acting, I think he may have broken a few laws.

320 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:04:47pm

re: #205 Amory Blaine

Jeepers creepers we pay billions in farm subsidies to grow corn and they’re charging 5 dollars for a dozen ears at the grocer.

I charged $4 a dozen for several years at the farmers market. It wasn’t even a break-even product for me and a couple of years ago, customers started complaining they could get it cheaper at Kroger’s (30 miles away). I said, fine, buy it there…and I don’t sell freshly harvested sweet corn at the farmers market anymore.

321 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:06:54pm

re: #319 ProTARDISLiberal

Good. Now, let’s detain Snowden and investigate Greenwald.

Snowden would be a slam-dunk in proving espionage, and with the way Greenwald has been acting, I think he may have broken a few laws.

Snowden’s in Russia and investigating Greenwald would only legitimize him in the minds of his supporters.

322 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:07:06pm

re: #303 ProTARDISLiberal

That was a righteous post! He covered all the bases.

323 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:07:11pm

Personally, if I were Miranda and I’d been unknowingly used as a mule by Greenwald, the man I’ve chosen to share my life with, I’d be seriously pissed.

How could he have not known what he was doing or least had an inkling? He can’t be that naive.

324 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:07:15pm

Cuteness break:

Sunny, the newest member of the Obama family. Image: sunny-the-dog.jpg?itok=XQeU5_8q

Another Portuguese water dog, due to allergy issues.

325 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:07:30pm

Meanwhile, back at the Bradley Manning proceedings, Manning’s lawyers are busy trying to get the government to consider not robbing Manning of the rest of his youth.

For the record, Manning is 25.

Prosecutors are looking at a 60 year sentence.

Attorneys for Bradley Manning, the soldier found guilty of turning over 700,000 classified U.S. files to WikiLeaks, called on a military judge on Monday to sentence him to a term that “doesn’t rob him of his youth,” rather than the 60 years urged by prosecutors.

Manning, 25, was working as a low-level intelligence analyst in Baghdad in 2010 when he committed the largest unauthorized release of secret documents in U.S. history, catapulting pro-transparency website WikiLeaks and its founder, Julian Assange, into the international spotlight.

“Perhaps his biggest crime was that he cared about the loss of life and that he couldn’t ignore it,” defense attorney David Coombs said during closing arguments of the sentencing part of Manning’s court martial at Fort Meade, Maryland.

“This court has had a year and half to see the conduct of PFC Manning. He’s a little geeky at times. But he’s caring, he’s compassionate,” Coombs said. “This is a young man who is capable of being redeemed. We should not rob him of his youth.”

This is the flip side of the Snowden/Greenwald show. It’s what happens when reality hits.

326 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:09:29pm

re: #234 ProTARDISLiberal


Mingo County, WV, has needed serious investigation for generations…

327 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:09:55pm

re: #323 Eclectic Cyborg

Personally, if I were Miranda and I’d been unknowingly used as a mule by Greenwald, the man I’ve chosen to share my life with, I’d be seriously pissed.

How could he have not known what he was doing or least had an inkling? He can’t be that naive.

I think he knew exactly what he was doing. He’s lived with GG for 9 yrs—you don’t think some of GG hasn’t rubbed off on him?

328 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:10:22pm
329 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:10:49pm

re: #325 lawhawk

Meanwhile, back at the Bradley Manning proceedings, Manning’s lawyers are busy trying to get the government to consider not robbing Manning of the rest of his youth.

For the record, Manning is 25.

Prosecutors are looking at a 60 year sentence.

This is the flip side of the Snowden/Greenwald show. It’s what happens when reality hits.

Yeah, he stands a very good chance of spending the rest of his life in prison.

330 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:12:00pm

Glenn Greenwald really knows how to suck the life out of living. I am so tired of this whole melodrama.

331 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:12:25pm

Firefighter handcuffed and arrested by Capitol Police for exercising his First Amendment rights

Youtube Video

332 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:13:14pm

re: #316 dog philosopher

could you tell me what are you talking about and describe how the threat of physical harm if we don’t comply with the demands of the terrorist comes into it?

Back for a bit.

What I mean by ‘illegal attack’ is the entirety of Snowden’s actions—stealing and conveying classified documents. The theft and revelations were intended to shut down a critical info gathering tool. That would be a good thing for some very bad people. Depending on how the laws are written, they are easily seen as aiding an ongoing terrorist enterprise. If you create a diversion for a bank robber, you just might be a bank robber.

333 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:14:46pm
334 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:15:45pm
335 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:16:29pm

re: #329 Charles Johnson

Yes, he does. Judge Lind is probably going to give him 50-60 years for the crimes.

But it’s rather galling for his lawyers to suggest that the sentence would rob him of his youth. He’s 25. He’s an adult. He made adult decisions. He just made really really really bad ones. Ones that were compounded by following the likes of Assange down that path and jettisoned and ignored now that the hammer dropped.

336 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:18:51pm

re: #335 lawhawk

Yes, he does. Judge Lind is probably going to give him 50-60 years for the crimes.

But it’s rather galling for his lawyers to suggest that the sentence would rob him of his youth. He’s 25. He’s an adult. He made adult decisions. He just made really really really bad ones. Ones that were compounded by following the likes of Assange down that path and jettisoned and ignored now that the hammer dropped.

I don’t envy Manning’s lawyers. They pretty clearly face a choice between making weak arguments or no argument at all.

337 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:18:52pm
338 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:19:41pm

Are we supposed to believe the Guardian didn’t have off-site backups of the Snowden docs?

How stupid do they really think we are?

339 erik_t  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:21:05pm

re: #338 Charles Johnson

Think, or hope?

340 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:21:26pm
341 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:22:17pm

re: #338 Charles Johnson

Are we supposed to believe the Guardian didn’t have off-site backups of the Snowden docs?

How stupid do they really think we are?

Apparently, they think we’re really bloody stupid. I’ve never been happier to disappoint.

342 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:22:54pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

The scene that was cut from They Shoot Horses, Don’t They?

343 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:24:27pm

Meanwhile, Ann just wants attention!

344 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:25:08pm

re: #343 Vicious Babushka

Meanwhile, Ann just wants attention!

Oh, gah. I can’t believe I ever thought that woman intelligent. I ought to track down my copy of her book and give it the redneck treatment.

345 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:27:08pm

re: #324 Justanotherhuman

Cuteness break:

Sunny, the newest member of the Obama family. Image: sunny-the-dog.jpg?itok=XQeU5_8q

Another Portuguese water dog, due to allergy issues.

346 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:27:28pm

re: #344 thedopefishlives

Oh, gah. I can’t believe I ever thought that woman intelligent. I ought to track down my copy of her book and give it the redneck treatment.

GAH. She doesn’t want her PLACE usurped by an upstart like Inez.

347 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:28:15pm

Ann linking to Takimag. My surprise, let me show you it.

348 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:28:48pm

BBL

349 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:29:06pm

re: #343 Vicious Babushka

She’s got to lay off the sauce.

350 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:30:00pm

re: #347 Vicious Babushka

Ann linking to Takimag. My surprise, let me show you it.

I read through those Tweets and what came into my head was: DEEEEEEERP DERP DERP DERP HURR DEEEEERP.

351 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:30:24pm

re: #346 Vicious Babushka

GAH. She doesn’t want her PLACE usurped by an upstart like Inez.

[Embedded content]

She hasn’t a clue what evolution would/should produce, and her comment about ‘Darwinism’ exposes her idiotic ideology.

352 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:30:29pm

re: #346 Vicious Babushka

She’s trying awfully hard.

353 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:31:21pm

Jack of Kent Tweeted this. I need a drink.

354 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:31:48pm

re: #345 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Mmmmm. Not skeptical enough.

355 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:32:58pm

re: #354 Gus

Mmmmm. Not skeptical enough.

Maybe it’s time for a little break…………………….

356 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:33:29pm

re: #355 wrenchwench

Maybe it’s time for a little break…………………….

Snap.

357 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:34:36pm
358 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:35:10pm

re: #355 wrenchwench

Maybe it’s time for a little break…………………….

359 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:35:22pm

I’m not sure who is less intelligent, Coulter for believing intelligent people will take her seriously, or those who take her seriously.

360 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:35:26pm

re: #328 Gus

Trust me: it made me just as disoriented and speechless as it made you. I’m still a bit traumatized from it, but recovering well

Sometimes I feel
Like I’ve been tied
To the whipping post
Tied to the whipping post
Tied to the whipping post
Good lord I feel like I’m dyin’

361 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:35:49pm

re: #353 Gus

Jack of Kent Tweeted this. I need a drink.

[Embedded content]

Was J of K formerly reasonable? I am unfamiliar….

Sometimes I get interesting hits on the ‘followers you know’ thingy:

Followed by Gus and Tim Minchin.

362 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:37:13pm

I have a throbbing pain in my left ball.

It started as a headache.

363 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:38:53pm
364 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:39:27pm

re: #361 wrenchwench

Was J of K formerly reasonable? I am unfamiliar….

Sometimes I get interesting hits on the ‘followers you know’ thingy:

Yes. Reasonable. Now, we’ll see.

365 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:40:04pm

re: #363 Gus

“A libertarian assault on the notion of government lies behind the reporting of the NSA ‘revelations’. The left needs to step up, expose the con and defend government as a force for good.”

366 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:40:24pm

re: #358 Gus


Yeah. Where are the pictures of Bo licking his balls and snarling at the postman? What a tool of the Obama regime.

367 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:40:45pm

re: #353 Gus

Jack of Kent Tweeted this. I need a drink.

[Embedded content]

I’d like to know why “Jack of Kent” thinks Miranda’s detention was “exceptional”?

Surely, as the intimate partner of Greenwald, traveling to Berlin to meet up with Laura Poitras, he was on “the watch list”. From what I’ve read, Poitras had already met Miranda at their house in Brazil and they had a planning session there to which Miranda was privy. That was common knowledge, and why JOK and other GG hangers-on think what happened was “exceptional” is beyond my comprehension, considering that Poitras is known to have every bit of information stolen by Snowden from the NSA.

368 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:41:00pm

re: #366 Charles Johnson

Yeah. Where are the pictures of Bo licking his balls and snarling at the postman? What a tool of the Obama regime.

Why no pics of Bo taking a pee? //

369 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:41:01pm

re: #353 Gus

Jack of Kent Tweeted this. I need a drink.

[Embedded content]

Soft-tissue injuries may take days or weeks to appear.
Better call Saul!

370 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:42:04pm

re: #363 Gus

[Embedded content]

Oh, just kill me now.

371 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:44:47pm

Ron Paul…
Progressive???
On what fucking planet in which fucking universe?????

372 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:47:44pm

re: #371 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Ron Paul…
Progressive???
On what fucking planet in which fucking universe?????

What do you know you Pavlovian of the hive mind! //

373 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:48:11pm
374 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:48:49pm

The name Cynic derives from Ancient Greek κυνικός (kynikos), meaning “dog-like”, and κύων (kyôn), meaning “dog” (genitive: kynos). It seems certain that the word dog was also thrown at the first Cynics as an insult for their shameless rejection of conventional manners, and their decision to live on the streets. Diogenes, in particular, was referred to as the Dog, a distinction he seems to have revelled in, stating that “other dogs bite their enemies, I bite my friends to save them.” Later Cynics also sought to turn the word to their advantage, as a later commentator explained:

“There are four reasons why the Cynics are so named. First because of the indifference of their way of life, for they make a cult of indifference and, like dogs, eat and make love in public, go barefoot, and sleep in tubs and at crossroads. The second reason is that the dog is a shameless animal, and they make a cult of shamelessness, not as being beneath modesty, but as superior to it. The third reason is that the dog is a good guard, and they guard the tenets of their philosophy. The fourth reason is that the dog is a discriminating animal which can distinguish between its friends and enemies. So do they recognize as friends those who are suited to philosophy, and receive them kindly, while those unfitted they drive away, like dogs, by barking at them”

375 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:49:14pm

re: #371 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Ron Paul…
Progressive???
On what fucking planet in which fucking universe?????

Another whopper in that article is the notion of Ron Paul as a serious contender for the GOP nomination.

That’s ridiculous. RP doesn’t have either the GOP establishment or the so-cons behind him.

376 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 5:54:47pm

Jack of Kent, real life: preiskel.com

377 Lancelot Link  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:01:29pm

re: #363 Gus

By an odd coincidence, David Sirota was on the Clear Channel/Bain Capitol payroll through the last election. I’m sure that had nothing to do with his constant anti-Obama hysteria, as he is an honorable man.

378 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:02:44pm

OK, tell me what you see here:

The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian’s long history occurred - with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian’s basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. “We can call off the black helicopters,” joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.

379 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:03:08pm

Rachel’s doing a puff piece on Poitras/Greenwald.

380 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:03:29pm
381 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:05:13pm

re: #371 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Ron Paul…
Progressive???
On what fucking planet in which fucking universe?????

Planet Weed, in the Weed Universe.

Youtube Video

382 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:05:27pm

re: #380 Vicious Babushka

Not an “only copy” or a “last remaining copy,” just “copy.
Horrors!

383 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:06:50pm

Hard drives in the Guardian’s basement…MacBook Pro…Hard drives in the Guardian’s basement…MacBook Pro…Hard drives in the Guardian’s basement…MacBook Pro…

Back, and to the left.

384 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:07:17pm
385 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:07:32pm

Why are there MacBook Pros in the Guardian basement?

386 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:09:37pm

re: #378 Gus

OK, tell me what you see here:

The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian’s long history occurred - with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian’s basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. “We can call off the black helicopters,” joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.

Pull the other one.

387 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:12:44pm

Rachel Maddow continuing the Miranda meme on MSNBC.

Why would the US govt, which was given a heads up on the Miranda detention, which was told the UK was going to detain Miranda, ask them not to detain him, Rachel? Why would the US govt interfere in something the UK was going to do, esp concerning someone who is not a US citizen?

388 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:16:02pm

re: #385 Gus

Why are there MacBook Pros in the Guardian basement?

Large creative departments run on Mac because they’re reliable and creative orgs like newspapers and ad agencies live off of that productivity. Nobody cares if the accounting and account management departments get sent home for the day due to a virus / worm in the network. Creative doesn’t have that luxury.

The article (which could be bullshit) says the destruction took place in the basement, not that the laptops were normally kept there.

389 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:16:52pm

re: #385 Gus

Why are there MacBook Pros in the Guardian basement?

Maybe they were smashing them on the floor.

390 OhNoZombies!  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:17:20pm

Is it me, or is MSNBC turning into Bizarro Fox News?
All about the ratings, I guess.

391 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:17:35pm
392 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:19:18pm

Rural Texans’ reward for regularly voting GOP: gravel roads.

393 ContraryLemming  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:19:28pm

re: #329 Charles Johnson

While I don’t agree with everything you have to say/feel about Snowden - on the Pvt. Manning case, I at least think the guy had some higher goals. The vids of soldiers blowing away civilians & journos were pretty ugly. Allowing war crimes to be swept under the carpet under the theory of “It’s war, everybody does it, whaddaya expect?” is not acceptable.

I’ll agree that Manning’s methodology was not the smartest. Some of his revelations caused real harm. Needed to be a lot choosier about what was given to whom, and when. But expecting that level of sophistication from such a troubled young man is perhaps unrealistic.

394 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:26:29pm

re: #389 jaunte

Maybe they were smashing them on the floor.

Why not just take them.

395 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:27:56pm

re: #394 Gus

Not dramatic enough?

396 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:28:46pm

re: #394 Gus

Why not just take them.

The story stinks. At this point I’m willing to predict that there are critical details we’re not being told, because that’s been a recurring pattern from the very start.

397 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:29:16pm

re: #395 jaunte

Not dramatic enough?

The Guardian is located in Kings Place, London. Here’s what’s housed in the basement.

Music and Cultural programme

Kings Place Music FoundationThe two beautiful Halls housed in the basement of Kings Place host a wide range of events. Within our broad programme you will find regular evenings of spoken word and comedy events and music from the worlds of folk, jazz, contemporary and classical chamber music. Weaved …

Acoustic Design

.All of the music spaces are buried in the basement of the building, away from the street noise. The recital hall …

Architecture

The first basement is a floor devoted to the visual arts. A continuous gallery around the escalators…

398 thedopefishlives  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:29:34pm

re: #396 Charles Johnson

The story stinks. At this point I’m willing to predict that there are critical details we’re not being told, because that’s been a recurring pattern from the very start.

I think that goes without saying, at this point. As has been said before with regard to The GG, I wouldn’t trust him if he said the sky is blue.

399 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:30:17pm

re: #397 Gus

comedy events

Aha!

400 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:31:00pm

If you were going to report something like this, wouldn’t you make sure to get all the dates and times accurate? But if you read the Guardian article it’s amazingly inexact — “a little over two months ago,” “just over a month ago,” etc.

The more I think about the points in this article the stinkier it gets.

401 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:31:17pm

“I have an idea! Let’s go smash these computers in the basement.”

Image: Gallery-New-Kings-Place-O-011.jpg

402 EPR-radar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:31:17pm

re: #396 Charles Johnson

The story stinks. At this point I’m willing to predict that there are critical details we’re not being told, because that’s been a recurring pattern from the very start.

For me, GG has lost all credibility, and the Guardian is really working on it.

It’s a pity, because the Guardian was a bit of sanity during the Bush years and the US media has been mostly useless for decades.

403 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:33:47pm

re: #401 Gus

When I read ‘basement’, I was seeing something more like this:
Image: Basement-Hall.jpg

404 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:34:20pm
405 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:34:32pm

Maybe Greenwald is really trying to destroy MSNBC via Hayes and Maddow…if that’s the case, he’s doing a great job of it.

406 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:37:06pm

Very disappointed to see Maddow go all in on this. Oh well. Been disappointed before, will be again.

407 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:38:54pm

re: #371 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Ron Paul…
Progressive???
On what fucking planet in which fucking universe?????

Prison Planet…. of course. ////

408 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:41:23pm

re: #387 Justanotherhuman

Rachel Maddow continuing the Miranda meme on MSNBC.

Why would the US govt, which was given a heads up on the Miranda detention, which was told the UK was going to detain Miranda, ask them not to detain him, Rachel? Why would the US govt interfere in something the UK was going to do, esp concerning someone who is not a US citizen?

God dammit.

409 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:44:32pm

re: #400 Charles Johnson

If you were going to report something like this, wouldn’t you make sure to get all the dates and times accurate? But if you read the Guardian article it’s amazingly inexact — “a little over two months ago,” “just over a month ago,” etc.

The more I think about the points in this article the stinkier it gets.

The Guardian fudging dates/times? They don’t know when event X and Y occurred? That should set off all kinds of alarm bells.

I’d want reporting to be as precise as possible to indicate dates/times of when these events occurred. But the imprecise nature of the times/dates means that they’re trying to obfuscate and mislead about the events - as if they’re not even sure about them.

Besides, if the computers were seized and destroyed, don’t you think the Guardian would have led with this when it actually happened? Why wait until now? What do they have to gain by burying the lede til the day after Greenwald’s SO was detained while transporting info between him and his associates.

This whole thing stinks something rotten.

410 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:44:44pm

*sigh*

411 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:44:50pm

Here’s what’s in the basement.

Image: 3D_Section.jpg
Image: 2888082349_b62b63b5ec_b.jpg

412 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:46:25pm

re: #410 Lidane

*sigh*

[Embedded content]

Right. They had a month to back-up. But they smashed some hard drives. In the basement. Which houses a theater.

413 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:47:07pm
414 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:48:30pm

…snip This whole thing stinks something rotten.

” A woman’s arm, clad in white silk that was interwoven with gold and silver thread, rose up out of the lake and caught Pulitzer by the hilt and then shook it three times before slipping silently beneath the surface of the water.”

415 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:49:10pm

re: #390 OhNoZombies!

Is it me, or is MSNBC turning into Bizarro Fox News?
All about the ratings, I guess.

Outrageously unpossible!

416 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:49:12pm

re: #413 Charles Johnson

Duh. Of course you’re supposed to fill in the blanks. Greenwald and Assange said so.

417 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:49:41pm

re: #413 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Creative writing.

418 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:50:03pm

re: #415 Killgore Trout

Outrageously unpossible!

Lol.
I was just about to post ‘when would KT show up?’

419 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:51:13pm

re: #415 Killgore Trout

Outrageously unpossible!

Yay, KT—haven’t seen you since before my plague-ridden travels.

420 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:52:24pm
421 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:52:56pm

re: #420 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Hahahaha.

422 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:53:59pm

re: #419 Decatur Deb

Yay, KT—haven’t seen you since before my plague-ridden travels.

Bad trip?

423 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:55:12pm

re: #421 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Hahahaha.

424 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:56:06pm
425 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:56:46pm

re: #422 Killgore Trout

Bad trip?

Accumulation of little mortal shit. The pear trees that weren’t supposed to fruit have come in a month early. One Asian Pear was 23.4 ounces.

426 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:57:11pm

Doesn’t every basement house a theatre? What riffraff have I stumbled upon?

427 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:57:38pm

re: #424 Gus

…the British government threatened legal action against the newspaper unless it either destroyed the classified documents or handed them back to British authorities…

Legal action? Worse than the rack!

428 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:57:47pm

re: #414 Decatur Deb

Oh but if I went ‘round sayin’ I won the Pulitzer, just because some moistened bint lobbed a thumb drive at me, they’d put me away….

429 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:58:27pm

So tired of the egos. So tired of the attention-whoring. So tired of the whinging when people are caught being scofflaws. So tired of the johnny-come-lately sensationalists who just want to get publicity for their cause on TV being called “journalists”. And so tired of people trying to bring down their own govt and country that gave them every opportunity, of which they took full and complete advantage—the white dudebros who no longer think this country is good enough for them and are too chicken-shit to stay and fight, or to work for, for what they think is right—and do to it the hard slog through legal means. Then, they have the gall to compare themselves to Martin Luther King, Jr or others who actually risked their lives for years in the service of civil rights.

Just. So. Tired.

430 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 6:59:35pm

re: #425 Decatur Deb

Accumulation of little mortal shit. The pear trees that weren’t supposed to fruit have come in a month early. One Asian Pear was 23.4 ounces.

My pears are ripening too, like most years I had plans to buy a cider press and make pear cider. Maybe next year.

431 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:00:16pm

re: #427 jaunte

Legal action? Worse than the rack!

Looks like Reuters just re-wrote the Guardian account.

432 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:00:40pm

re: #429 Justanotherhuman

Youtube Video

433 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:00:54pm
434 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:02:23pm

Because the Founders were all about dial-up and CompuServe, yo:

435 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:02:40pm

They have a back-up.

436 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:03:43pm

re: #435 Gus

They have a back-up.

You bet they do.

437 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:03:55pm

Or. The Guardian really did smash the HDs and Miranda was “swinging by” to reload.

438 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:04:43pm

re: #432 Lidane

[Embedded content]

I miss her. She was always wonderful.

439 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:06:19pm

re: #392 jaunte

Rural Texans’ reward for regularly voting GOP: gravel roads.

30 mph speed limit. A subtle method to make it harder to get to the polls.
/

440 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:07:13pm
441 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:08:03pm

On the upside, there won’t be any potholes because of the rain.

(I kid I kid I hope they get some relief)

442 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:08:07pm
443 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:08:35pm

I used to like Rachel Maddow—before she started reveling in the fame and her own mythical influence.

444 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:10:16pm
445 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:10:22pm

re: #440 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Feeling speculative. Dimwit had reloading kit open all over the place, or he blasted his meth lab.

446 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:11:29pm

Duke would have never done that.

447 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:11:41pm

Unchanged since age 17:

He’s not someone who shifts in the wind,” Panton says. “The Ted Cruz that I knew at 17 years old is exactly the same as the Ted Cruz I know at 42 years old. He was very conservative then, and an outspoken conservative. He remains strongly conservative today.”
……
The time-capsule quality of Cruz’s politics is lost on no one who knew him at Princeton, none of whom could point to a political position that he held 25 years ago that he does not seem to still hold today. For some, that amounts to a laudably consistent belief system. For others, it reveals a man of calcified thinking, dangerously impervious to facts, reality, and a changing world.

448 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:12:05pm

re: #445 Decatur Deb

Feeling speculative. Dimwit had reloading kit open all over the place, or he blasted his meth lab.

Hit a propane tank?

449 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:12:43pm

Ick. 99% percent sure a certain poster on this thread is a stalker/sockpuppet.

450 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:13:02pm

re: #448 Justanotherhuman

Hit a propane tank?

That’s what I’m thinking.

451 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:13:25pm

Yeah because changing in a quarter century constitutes shifting in the wind.

452 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:13:48pm

re: #448 Justanotherhuman

Hit a propane tank?

Something energetic. Report says it went up instantly and Bomb/Arson squad is there.

453 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:13:53pm

I wouldn’t want the Greenwalds in my Federation Starship nor a foxhole.

454 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:14:59pm

re: #440 Lidane

[Embedded content]

i have to imagine he thought it was just the coolest thing ever

455 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:15:41pm

re: #447 jaunte

Unchanged since age 17:

For some, that amounts to a laudably consistent belief system. For others, it reveals a man of calcified thinking, dangerously impervious to facts, reality, and a changing world.

In other words, the perfect GOP candidate for 2016.

456 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:16:49pm

Feck it. The whole thing at Heathrow was planned.

457 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:18:27pm

re: #456 Gus

Feck it. The whole thing at Heathrow was planned.

“A plan, not a good plan mind you, but a plan.”

458 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:20:21pm

re: #457 Decatur Deb

“A plan, not a good plan mind you, but a plan.”

Would Poitras have traveled through the UK before this happened? When was the last time Poitras traveled through the UK?

459 dog philosopher  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:22:24pm

if a person did want to talk about politics without greenwald coming up constantly, they would have no place to go these days

460 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:22:45pm

re: #447 jaunte

I don’t trust someone who hasn’t changed or evolved their ideas in 25+ years. New information and new facts should always lead to self-reflection, IMO.

461 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:22:55pm

re: #458 Gus

Would Poitras have traveled through the UK before this happened? When was the last time Poitras traveled through the UK?

Last stop I have for her is Hong Kong. Dunno after that. She’s supposed to be the smart one.

462 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:23:46pm

re: #461 Decatur Deb

Last stop I have for her is Hong Kong. Dunno after that. She’s supposed to be the smart one.

She’s in Berlin. Met with Miranda.

463 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:24:33pm

re: #462 Gus

She’s in Berlin. Met with Miranda.

Yeah. Don’t know her route there.

464 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:25:10pm

re: #460 Lidane

From that story, it sounds like most of his education was devoted to polishing his debate skills to defend the ideas he was taught as a child.

465 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:27:01pm

So The Guardian was already dealing with the GCHQ. Basically, the UK govt. was already pissed off.

466 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:27:23pm

re: #464 jaunte

From that story, it sounds like most of his education was devoted to polishing his debate skills to defend the ideas he was taught as a child.

Which is why he’s a GOP darling now.

467 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:27:29pm

re: #461 Decatur Deb

Last stop I have for her is Hong Kong. Dunno after that. She’s supposed to be the smart one.

Right now, she and GG are living in a little fantasy bubble that their ‘scoop’ is the most important story to ever hit the planet. That kind of attitude always leads to disappointment.

468 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:27:57pm

re: #465 Gus

So GG knew what he was poking.

469 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:29:26pm

Given that the GCHQ was already in The Guardian’s face, you let Miranda fly through LHR with classified documents? Huh? What?

470 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:30:32pm
471 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:32:18pm

Hanlon’s razor?

472 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:32:52pm

re: #470 darthstar

President Obama “hates white people,” otherwise he would have guaranteed full employment for white people.

473 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:36:22pm

re: #470 darthstar

[Embedded content]

From deep in the Gawker comments:

Image: original.jpg

474 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:37:19pm

re: #443 Justanotherhuman

I used to like Rachel Maddow—before she started reveling in the fame and her own mythical influence.

She’s still very good most of the time. Like most reporters, she should stay the hell away from tech stories.

475 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:38:31pm

re: #458 Gus

Would Poitras have traveled through the UK before this happened? When was the last time Poitras traveled through the UK?

Not sure she has lately, according to the timeline laid out here; she may have been able to avoid it according to where she traveled. nytimes.com

“She [Poitras] is also assessing her legal vulnerability. Poitras and Greenwald are not facing any charges, at least not yet. They do not plan to stay away from America forever, but they have no immediate plans to return.”

She flew to Berlin on June 15 after the Hong Kong mtg w/Snowden and has supposedly been there since; she has had an apt there since fall of 2012.

476 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:39:23pm

Miranda flies to Berlin. Meets with co-conspirator Laura Poitras and possibly Appelbaum. Then flies back through LHR (UK) which is crawling with MI5 and GCHQ. GCHQ which already demanded the destruction of The Guardian’s hard drives. I’m assuming it was the same stop over inbound.

477 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:40:49pm

re: #470 darthstar

Maybe he’s looking to fill Hannity’s spot.

478 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:42:22pm

Having a Columbo moment.

479 abolitionist  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:48:12pm

re: #478 Gus

Having a Columbo moment.

Just one more thing..
:)

480 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:55:14pm

re: #478 Gus

Having a Columbo moment.

Feeling a little Sri Lanka?

481 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:56:19pm
482 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:56:43pm

THE NSA IS TRYING TO GET ME! LET OUT OF THIS PLANE! THE NSA IS TRYING TO GET ME! LET OUT OF THIS PLANE! THE NSA IS TRYING TO GET ME! LET OUT OF THIS PLANE!

483 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 7:59:17pm

Also. The Guardian planned this trip. They paid for it. They already had dealings with the GCHQ. Yet they planned the trip through LHR?

484 darthstar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:01:57pm

re: #483 Gus

Also. The Guardian planned this trip. They paid for it. They already had dealings with the GCHQ. Yet they planned the trip through LHR?

Little known fact: The GCHQ is England’s version of the Pentagon, only without all the corners.

Image: code_1215472a.jpg

485 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:03:03pm

re: #484 darthstar

Little known fact: The GCHQ is England’s version of the Pentagon, only without all the corners.

Image: code_1215472a.jpg

Like the new Apple HQ only shrimpier.

486 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:03:21pm

My pie making adventures continue. Tonight: strawberry pie.

The whole kitchen smells like strawberry filling. Yum.

487 Kragar  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:03:30pm

re: #484 darthstar

Little known fact: The GCHQ is England’s version of the Pentagon, only without all the corners.

Image: code_1215472a.jpg

What’s up with the inner courtyards for both of them?

488 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:04:27pm

re: #487 Kragar

What’s up with the inner courtyards for both of them?

Secret deathray installations.
/

489 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:05:59pm

re: #487 Kragar

What’s up with the inner courtyards for both of them?

The Pentagon courtyard held a snack bar, nicknamed “Ground Zero”. Chesapeake crabs in season.

490 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:06:54pm

re: #460 Lidane

I don’t trust someone who hasn’t changed or evolved their ideas in 25+ years. New information and new facts should always lead to self-reflection, IMO.

Yup, I know a wingnut who is incredibly proud that she hasn’t changed her positions since she was 8 years old. Really? She has gotten no new information that has lead her to reevaluate anything in the last 40 years? Okay.

491 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:08:40pm

re: #490 calochortus

Nothing says privilege like being able to live your life with the ideas of an eight year old.

492 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:12:24pm

UK’s GCHQ is hot on the trail of The Guardian yet the Guardian plans a return trip for Miranda through the UK after meeting with Poitras.

493 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:13:11pm

Ummm.

494 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:14:02pm

This guy, who works for WAPO, referring to the NYT article on Poitras (above in my comment):

Paul Farhi ‏@farhip 16 Aug

Xclnt NYT mag piece on @laurapoitras, @glenngreenwald. But not a word how Poitras helped @bartongellman, @WaPo? Odd. tr.im

495 Lancelot Link  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:14:41pm

re: #490 calochortus

Yup, I know a wingnut who is incredibly proud that she hasn’t changed her positions since she was 8 years old.

“Gimme!”

496 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:16:11pm

re: #491 jaunte

I wouldn’t say she was particularly privileged. Very much working class.

497 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:16:45pm

re: #495 Lancelot Link

“Gimme!”

Nah, it’s everyone else who are “takers”.

498 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:17:34pm
499 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:18:01pm

re: #496 calochortus

I mean, if she’s gotten this far without a crisis shaking up her 8-year-old worldview, she’s been pretty untouched by life.

500 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:18:14pm

This was before The Guardian planned Miranda’s trip. Through the UK.

501 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:19:37pm

Derp.

502 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:19:46pm

Derp’s Razor.

503 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:20:26pm

Fukushima bay radiation levels highest since measurements began

japandailypress.com

Worrisome. Very.

504 calochortus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:21:12pm

re: #499 jaunte

I mean, if she’s gotten this far without a crisis shaking up her 8-year-old worldview, she’s been pretty untouched by life.

Ah, well that is probably the case. I think she goes through life rather frightened and gets a great deal of comfort from certainty.

505 Gus  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:21:59pm

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by derp.

506 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:22:45pm

The Guardian’s Shocking Claim: We Were Forced to Smash Our Computers While Government Goons Observed

….Predictably, it’s yet another vague, coy article in The Guardian that utterly fails to be entirely forthright about critical details. And it was written by the editor-in-chief, no less. Not surprisingly, there’s a laundry list of questions that remain unanswered even though Rusbridger fielded questions from readers in the comments below his post.

1) Which British leaders, or which British agency or agencies, did these officials represent?

3) Why did Rusbridger wait until now to reveal this information?

4) Why didn’t this story get its own headline and article? Why did it get buried, almost as an afterthought, deep inside an opinion article about a separate incident?
….
8) Why on earth did GCHQ, the U.K.’s version of the NSA tasked with signals intelligence, handle the computer destruction and not another internal law enforcement agency like, say, MI-5?
thedailybanter.com

507 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:24:09pm

re: #415 Killgore Trout

Outrageously unpossible!

KT! How the hell are you?

508 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:24:44pm

re: #498 Gus

[Embedded content]

“Speaking of goon squads, shortly after the Rusbridger news broke, Tom Nichols, a professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College tweeted: “Maybe someone at the Guardian googled pressure cookers. *bites knuckle*”

509 jaunte  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:31:31pm
510 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 8:35:42pm

So, if Laura Poitras can fly directly from Berlin to Rio, why couldn’t Miranda?

lufthansa.com

Looking more and more like this detention was expected? More sales for The Guardian, those cheap asses?

The outrage: right on cue.

511 Lidane  Mon, Aug 19, 2013 9:00:21pm

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh