Rod Dreher Is Jumping The Shark Again…

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Perpetual moral scold and professional victim town crier Rod Dreher (unintentional rhyme) has made a career of gay panic mongering on top of End of the Christian West predictions. Just in the last seven days, he has posted thirteen stories on GLBT issues wherein he praised President Putin (In a nuanced way, mind you!) for upholding Orthodox Christian values while keeping teh ghey under control (maybe with a little too much force for Rod’s comfort, hence a cheer and half for Putin and not three cheers), suggested that maybe it was time for the Benedictine option where he would presumably withdraw his family from evil ghey society (like those anti gay folks from Arizona who tried to sail to the South Pacific last spring and ended up lost at sea for three months…) and inevitably mocked trans people and the state of California for trying to have trans friendly bathroom policies in school.

The only blogs I have seen that spent this much time obsessing over GLBT people were actual GLBT blogs.

But Rod has outdone himself on this one.

He starts out strong with quotes from Dante’s Inferno along with a bonus Dore’ illustration of the second level of hell (where the lustful hang out for those who are not familiar) and uses that to segue into…Germany is allowing intersexed children to decide for themselves what gender they should be and even have a special passport designation that is neither female nor male!

The horror! If Biology will simply not go along with conservative teleology and Natural Law, then WE MUST FIX IT!

But Rod is just getting started…

He cheerfully endorses this little gem.

It’s fitting that Germany passed this legislation. It reflects our postmodern version of the will’s triumph over given realities. Nazism was an earlier version of this triumph, very different in countless ways, of course, but sharing a basic, underlying similarity. Hitler believed in the priority of the deed over truth, the will over fact, strength over established affairs. He wanted to forge a New Germany in accord with new myths, and part of his appeal rested in the fact that he affirmed the priority of this desire over all else. It’s intoxicating to believe that we can make our own destiny by the strength of our self-choosing.

Because helping intersexed people is totally like being in a Leni Riefenstahl Nazi propaganda flick! Triumph of the Will!

It goes downhill from there as he quotes Ross Douthat from the NYT:

It’s the dream of Thomas Friedman as well as Karl Marx, as old as Babel and as young as the South Korean cloners. It whispered to us in Eden, and it whispers to us now: ye shall be as gods. And no conservative dream, in the 400 years from Francis Bacon until now, has proven strong enough to stand in its way.

You got that? Intersexed people are part of the liberal delusion of Godhood that is making Rod and Ross haz a sad. Or something.

He tries pick it up a little bit with an obligatory Marxism quote from cranky Enlightenment disapproval guy Alasdair MacIntyre:

Even if Marxist characterizations of advanced capitalism are inadequate, the Marxist understanding of liberalism as ideological, as a deceiving and self-deceiving mask for certain social interests, remains compelling. Liberalism in the name of freedom imposes a certain kind of unacknowledged domination, and one which in the long run tends to dissolve traditional human ties and to impoverish social and cultural relationships. Liberalism, while imposing through state power regimes that declare everyone free to pursue whatever they take to be their own good, deprives most people of the possibility of understanding their lives as a quest for the discovery and achievement of the good…

You got that? Intersexed people are Fascistic and Marxist all at once! You can’t let them out of the hospital without correcting that Fascist/Marxist biological anomaly! Who knows what they might do?

But Mac is just winding up:

Precisely. In After Virtue I argued that the failure of the Enlightenment project is best understood as a sequel to the wrong-headed rejection, in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, of what I called “the tradition of the virtues.”…Virtues are those qualities of mind and character without which the goods internal to such human practices as those of the arts and the sciences and such productive activities as those of farming, fishing, and architecture cannot be achieved. Second, virtues are those qualities without which an individual cannot achieve that life, ordered in terms of those goods, which is best for her or him to achieve; and third, those qualities without which a community cannot flourish, and there can be no adequate conception of overall human good.

So the Enlightenment was a bad idea according to reactionary Catholic theologians, and Rod thinks this has something to do with intersexed people who have ambiguous reproductive organs.

yeah.

But Rod tries to tie all of this together in a Grand Unified Theory of quantum mechanics and relativity keeping those damned free will people off of his lawn.

Technology and desire will free us from the tyranny of our bodies. And, as Dante knew, it will ultimately open the gate of Hell, because it so seductively appeared to us as Good. Here is one way to state the temptation:

At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.

That is true, insofar as it is a metaphysical statement about free will. But it is a seductive truth, because it is ultimately nihilistic, claiming that morality is what we say it is, and calling that liberty. It is no wonder that those lines, written by Justice Anthony Kennedy, on behalf of a Supreme Court majority, were used to justify leaving mothers free to murder without restriction their unborn children. A passionate love of liberty so construed leads us to choose one death.

Beautiful.

Jump to bottom

124 comments
1 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 3:41:03pm

Minor correction: The second level of Hell is for the lustful, not the fifth. I adjusted that above.

2 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:04:31pm

Dreher’s the best argument atheism ever had and I say that as a devout agnostic who wears a St. Patrick medallion.

3 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:09:19pm

Thanks for paging this. Most of the time, these loons are a bit more subtle about their desire to repeal the Enlightenment and return to an age of theocracy and the divine right of the Job Makers to use and abuse slaves and serfs at will.

4 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:09:36pm

I live for the day when “The Nazis were homosexuals!” myth is finally consigned to the dustbin of history.

5 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:09:36pm

God damn! That was a trip through logical hell.

6 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:10:12pm
7 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:11:50pm

re: #5 Justanotherhuman

God damn! That was a trip through logical hell.

Logic, reasoning and reading comprehension are irrelevant. I haz my bibble, and I can thump it to come up with any conclusion I want it to.

Prayze Prosperity Gospel Jesus and the Golden Calf he rode into town on.

8 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:12:02pm

re: #4 Targetpractice

I live for the day when “The Nazis were homosexuals!” myth is finally consigned to the dustbin of history.

It dumbfounds me that it’s even an argument. More Nazis were heterosexual and Christian and I’ve never seen anyone even the most radical gay activist argue that means that straight white Christians shouldn’t be able to enjoy the same rights under the law. But I guess if you’re a demented freak who sees the lesson of the Holocaust- Gay Nazis, all gays deserve to be punished! Then they have a big bone to pick with many a Holocaust survivor.

9 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:12:57pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

By not giving NRO anything resembling credibility on political matters. Any magazine that willingly has John Derbyshire write for them for several years shouldn’t be taken seriously.

10 calochortus  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:13:02pm

Picking a sex for intersexed babies is hardly new and doesn’t have a particularly good track record. Even if will could overcome the problems-it would have to be the will of the intersexed person, not their doctor or parents.

11 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:13:12pm

re: #4 Targetpractice

I live for the day when “The Nazis were homosexuals!” myth is finally consigned to the dustbin of history.

We’re still working on talking people out of the “Liberal Fascism” fairytale:

12 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:13:42pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Hmmm. My god is called Dog. : )

13 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:14:13pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson


How about BY NOT STARVING THE CHILDREN.

wonkette.com

14 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:14:59pm

re: #11 jaunte

We’re still working on talking people out of the “Liberal Fascism” fairytale:

[Embedded content]

Foul Little Bitch looks like Inez.

Coincidence?

15 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:15:18pm

re: #11 jaunte

We’re still working on talking people out of the “Liberal Fascism” fairytale:

[Embedded content]

Never seen any conservative advocate social control? Yeah conservatives totally opposed gay marriage bans, bans on drug use, etc. Conservatives shouldn’t feel bad about Hitler, his evil has nothing to do with modern conservatism but to claim that the Nazi ideology was leftist is a revision of the highest order. It’s typical of modern conservatives who want to blame every one of the world’s evils on the left and leftism.

16 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:16:19pm
17 OhNoZombies!  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:16:24pm

I have no idea what I just read.
The nonsensical rankings of a madman, perhaps?
I mean, I recognized individual words, and I’m pretty sure that was English, but…

18 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:17:51pm

For a bunch of people who proclaim to love the Founding Fathers, their hatred of the Enlightenment sure is amusing to me.

19 thedopefishlives  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:19:39pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

For a bunch of people who proclaim to love the Founding Fathers, their hatred of the Enlightenment sure is amusing to me.

They love their idealized, Christianized versions of the Founding Fathers. The ability of the Christian Right to completely invent their own history and proclaim it as fact must not be underestimated.

20 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:19:53pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

Never seen any conservative advocate social control? Yeah conservatives totally opposed gay marriage bans, bans on drug use, etc. Conservatives shouldn’t feel bad for Hitler, his evil has nothing to do with modern conservatism but to claim that the Nazi ideology was leftist is a revision of the highest order. It’s typical of modern conservatives who want to blame every one of the world’s evils on the left and leftism.

This stuff isn’t hard. Hitler and the Nazis were clearly an extreme right wing movement. Likewise, Stalin, Mao etc. for the left.

US conservatives should only feel bad about Nazis to the extent that they seek to follow the various models left behind by the Nazis.

Some soul searching and reflection is in order for US right wing nut jobs on the subject of seeking scapegoats and demonizing the opposition.

21 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:20:55pm

re: #19 thedopefishlives

They love their idealized, Christianized versions of the Founding Fathers. The ability of the Christian Right to completely invent their own history and proclaim it as fact must not be underestimated.

I don’t underestimate it at all but I sure do laugh at people like David Barton who claim that Jefferson wrote the Jefferson Bible to make the Bible easier to understand for Native Americans or that John Knox is more important to American thought than TJ. Maybe if you’re a predestination fetishist like Dave but the rest of us who value our individual rights more than some outdated worldview…………

22 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:21:37pm

re: #18 HappyWarrior

For a bunch of people who proclaim to love the Founding Fathers, their hatred of the Enlightenment sure is amusing to me.

AND MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS A REPUBLICAN!!11!!
Except he said this: (Real Quote)

23 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:21:40pm
“…it is a seductive truth, because it is ultimately nihilistic, claiming that morality is what we say it is, and calling that liberty. “

We have to understand that morality and liberty are what Rod Dreher says they are, or all is lost.

24 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:21:41pm

Hitler had a mustache, therefore everyone with a mustache is a fascist.
Hitler was 5’8”, therefore everybody of that height is a fascist.
Hitler was Austrian, therefore all Austrian’s are fascist.
Hitler was white, therefore all white people are fascist.
Hitler was male, therefore all males are fascist.
Hitler was atheist, therefore all atheists are fascist.
Hitler was a socialist, so all socialists are fascists.

25 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:21:55pm

Dreher has been an insufferable, sanctimonious douche since his Beliefnet days. I remember reading him years ago where he tried to present himself as a “crunchy granola conservative” — that is, a complete raving wingnut who eats local and organic and shops at farmer’s markets. He’s a hippie that reads Hayek, don’tcha know!

It was as unconvincing as it was insincere. And now he’s got his organic, hemp fiber panties in a knot over intersex children? Really? WTF.

26 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:22:08pm

re: #19 thedopefishlives

They love their idealized, Christianized versions of the Founding Fathers. The ability of the Christian Right to completely invent their own history and proclaim it as fact must not be underestimated.

They worship Father Washington and his sword, Father Franklin and his key and Father Jefferson and his scroll.

27 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:23:02pm

re: #24 As Stupid as I Look

Hitler had a mustache, therefore everyone with a mustache is a fascist.
Hitler was 5’8”, therefore everybody of that height is a fascist.
Hitler was Austrian, therefore all Austrian’s are fascist.
Hitler was white, therefore all white people are fascist.
Hitler was male, therefore all males are fascist.
Hitler was atheist, therefore all atheists are fascist.
Hitler was a socialist, so all socialists are fascists.

Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore all vegetarians are nazis.
Hitler wore pants, therefore everyone who wears pants is a nazi.
Hitler was right-handed, therefore everyone who is right-handed is a nazi.

Wingnut Logic 101.

28 darthstar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:23:13pm
29 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:23:36pm

re: #24 As Stupid as I Look

It’s probably simpler (and stupider) than that. Something like this:

I am a good person.

Therefore, everyone who disagrees with me is evil.

Hitler was evil.

Therefore, everyone who disagrees with me is another Hitler.

30 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:24:01pm
31 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:24:20pm

re: #24 As Stupid as I Look

Hitler had a mustache, therefore everyone with a mustache is a fascist.
Hitler was 5’8”, therefore everybody of that height is a fascist.
Hitler was Austrian, therefore all Austrian’s are fascist.
Hitler was white, therefore all white people are fascist.
Hitler was male, therefore all males are fascist.
Hitler was atheist, therefore all atheists are fascist.
Hitler was a socialist, so all socialists are fascists.

Hitler’s religion is really more of a “?” and the socialist in “National Socialist German Worker’s Party” is a lot like the “Judeo” in “Judeo Christian”.

32 thedopefishlives  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:26:06pm

re: #26 jamesfirecat

They worship Father Washington and his sword, Father Franklin and his key and Father Jefferson and his scroll.

Fox’s Book of the Founding Fathers.

33 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:27:23pm
34 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:27:44pm

re: #31 jamesfirecat

Hitler’s religion is really more of a “?” and the socialist in “National Socialist German Worker’s Party” is a lot like the “Judeo” in “Judeo Christian”.

It’s also worth noting that while the Nazis did have an element that took the socialist part of national socialist german workers party seriously, they were pretty much all either killed or went along with the party’s more right wing vision. I’d like someone who thinks the Nazis were leftist to tell me why if the Nazis were such a leftist entity why on earth would they give aid to Franco and not the Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. Why would the Socialist Party of Germany (SPD) even urge its members to support Paul Hindenberg over Hitler and to go along with that theme, why were SPD members some of the first political prisoners of the new state. The Nazis weren’t left wing. To argue that I actually think insults the victims of Nazi Germany. That’s not to say that the Nazis didn’t persecute conservatives either, they certainly did but the Nazis were a rightist movement and remain so to this day.

35 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:27:50pm
36 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:27:59pm

re: #32 thedopefishlives

Fox’s Barton’s Book of Fake Quotes of the Founding Fathers.

ftfy

37 Gus  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:28:17pm

re: #33 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Psycho.

38 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:28:54pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

It’s also worth noting that while the Nazis did have an element that took the socialist part of national socialist german workers party seriously, they were pretty much all either killed or went along with the party’s more right wing vision. I’d like someone who thinks the Nazis were leftist to tell me why if the Nazis were such a leftist entity why on earth would they give aid to Franco and not the Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. Why would the Socialist Party of Germany (SPD) even urge its members to support Paul Hindenberg over Hitler and to go along with that theme, why were SPD members some of the first political prisoners of the new state. The Nazis weren’t left wing. To argue that I actually think insults the victims of Nazi Germany. That’s not to say that the Nazis didn’t persecute conservatives either, they certainly did but the Nazis were a rightist movement and remain so to this day.

They also busted up unions and busted heads of union organizers.

39 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:30:54pm

re: #38 jamesfirecat

They also busted up unions and busted heads of union organizers.

Indeed, remember Pastor Nimholler’s poem.
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Would a leftist regime first go after these groups? And let’s not forget the Nazis associated the Jews with Marxism. They never forgot an opportunity to bring up that Marx was of Jewish heritage.

40 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:31:20pm

re: #33 jaunte

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The fuck is wrong with people.

41 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:31:29pm

Hitler on a sled

Image: 128608.jpg?v=1

42 thedopefishlives  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:32:28pm

re: #40 HappyWarrior

The fuck is wrong with people.

If we knew, we’d make a pill for it. Of course, they’d refuse to take it.

43 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:33:00pm

re: #41 Carlos Danger

Hitler on a sled

Image: 128608.jpg?v=1

Oooh that should replace Christ on a crutch especially because there are no known images of Christ walking around hobbled after breaking his leg skateboarding.

44 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:35:25pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

It’s also worth noting that while the Nazis did have an element that took the socialist part of national socialist german workers party seriously, they were pretty much all either killed or went along with the party’s more right wing vision. I’d like someone who thinks the Nazis were leftist to tell me why if the Nazis were such a leftist entity why on earth would they give aid to Franco and not the Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. Why would the Socialist Party of Germany (SPD) even urge its members to support Paul Hindenberg over Hitler and to go along with that theme, why were SPD members some of the first political prisoners of the new state. The Nazis weren’t left wing. To argue that I actually think insults the victims of Nazi Germany. That’s not to say that the Nazis didn’t persecute conservatives either, they certainly did but the Nazis were a rightist movement and remain so to this day.

An amusing example of legal inertia is that Germany presently has laws that mandate a nontrivial amount of compensation to employees who make inventions that end up having patents owned by their employer. These are protections for workers that are not commonplace in the developed world.

As I understand it, this concept was first enacted into German law during the Third Reich.

45 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:36:18pm

re: #43 HappyWarrior

Image: surferstar0001.jpg

46 Lancelot Link  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:37:28pm

That shark must be getting tired of the constant air traffic over its head.

47 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:38:02pm

re: #44 EPR-radar

Unfortunately, that law sounds reasonable.

I say unfortunate because of the fact that Fascist Germany did it, and not a better group.

48 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:38:03pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

It’s also worth noting that while the Nazis did have an element that took the socialist part of national socialist german workers party seriously, they were pretty much all either killed or went along with the party’s more right wing vision. I’d like someone who thinks the Nazis were leftist to tell me why if the Nazis were such a leftist entity why on earth would they give aid to Franco and not the Spanish Republic during the Spanish Civil War. Why would the Socialist Party of Germany (SPD) even urge its members to support Paul Hindenberg over Hitler and to go along with that theme, why were SPD members some of the first political prisoners of the new state. The Nazis weren’t left wing. To argue that I actually think insults the victims of Nazi Germany. That’s not to say that the Nazis didn’t persecute conservatives either, they certainly did but the Nazis were a rightist movement and remain so to this day.

This person is sort of like the ones who wind up on the TakeThatDarwin timeline.

49 steve_davis  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:38:19pm

A dragon and butterfly are different in countlessre: #4 Targetpractice

I live for the day when “The Nazis were homosexuals!” myth is finally consigned to the dustbin of history.

re: #8 HappyWarrior

It dumbfounds me that it’s even an argument. More Nazis were heterosexual and Christian and I’ve never seen anyone even the most radical gay activist argue that means that straight white Christians shouldn’t be able to enjoy the same rights under the law. But I guess if you’re a demented freak who sees the lesson of the Holocaust- Gay Nazis, all gays deserve to be punished! Then they have a big bone to pick with many a Holocaust survivor.

Homosexuals were part of the test-run for Hitler’s extermination camps.

50 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:38:26pm
51 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:40:05pm

re: #48 jaunte

[Embedded content]

This person is sort of like the ones who wind up on the TakeThatDarwin timeline.

I don’t do twitter but if her argument is “See they call themselves socialists so they’re socialists”, she needs to have a talk with the German Democratic Republic and the numerous misnomers. Really what a stupid argument. Has it ever occured to her that they used socialist in the title to attract working class support at a time in German history where industrialization was rampant?

52 freetoken  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:40:32pm

Ah yes, The American Conservative… when National Racists Online are not pretentious enough for you.

53 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:41:21pm

re: #49 steve_davis

A dragon and butterfly are different in countless

Homosexuals were part of the test-run for Hitler’s extermination camps.

I know, I’m aware of the fact that Nazis persecuted gay people but there were some gay Nazis like Ernst Rohm. My point is that just because there were some gay Nazis doesn’t mean it’s okay to persecute people for being gay which is the lesson that many right wing nutjobs seem to get out of the Holocaust not you know don’t persecute and then murder people for being different.

54 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:42:08pm

re: #47 ProTARDISLiberal

Unfortunately, that law sounds reasonable.

I say unfortunate because of the fact that Fascist Germany did it, and not a better group.

It happens. Communist regimes were responsible for huge increases in literacy in the parts of the third world where they’ve held or still hold power and I read that Hoxha’s Albania really improved conditions for Albanian women and conditions for Albanian women were some of the worst in Europe pre Cold War. We’re talking honor killings and stuff like that.

55 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:42:22pm

re: #48 jaunte

[Embedded content]

This person is sort of like the ones who wind up on the TakeThatDarwin timeline.

And as I just said, the word “Socialist” in the German party’s name is about as accurate as the word “Compassionate” in “Compassionate Conservative” you can call yourself that, but it doesn’t make it so.

Or as someone else pointed out, the word “Republic” or Democratic in “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea”.

56 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:42:25pm

That’s not the only horrific show that’s aired on Al Jazeera, but it’s definitely one of the worst. Why should I trust Al Jazeera after this? Because they have an obscene amount of money and can hire reputable journalists, and pay what they need to pay to get access to the rest of the world?

If Al Jazeera had ever shown a single sign of being contrite about this monstrous shit, I’d feel differently.

57 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:42:27pm

re: #48 jaunte

She sounds like another child left behind in public school.

58 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:45:34pm

re: #44 EPR-radar

As I understand it, this concept was first enacted into German law during the Third Reich.

Well, with the amount of bad legislation they passed, something had to give. Despite the Nazis destroying the free labor movement, German workers had a interesting loyalty program where workers could have a trip on the Italian Riviera, KdF cruise ships, etc.

I always kind of wondered how a Augustinian-like regime would work in the US if the political system imploded.

59 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:46:08pm

en.wikipedia.org
Look guys the Liberal Democratic PArty of Russia. They must be total lefties and friends of democracy. Oh wait, they’re far right and ultra-nationalistic. Sometimes a name is just a name. Any idiot who argues the NSDAP were socialists because of the word socialist in their party would by using their logic accept that every communist nation that has existed was democratic on some level and I don’t think anyone even the most deluded leftist accepts that.

60 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:47:31pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

And now Albania is a very loyal (though tiny) ally to the US.

To be fair, that was true before Hoxha.

61 steve_davis  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:47:50pm

re: #15 HappyWarrior

Never seen any conservative advocate social control? Yeah conservatives totally opposed gay marriage bans, bans on drug use, etc. Conservatives shouldn’t feel bad about Hitler, his evil has nothing to do with modern conservatism but to claim that the Nazi ideology was leftist is a revision of the highest order. It’s typical of modern conservatives who want to blame every one of the world’s evils on the left and leftism.

It’s because Republicans are, by nature, idiots who apparently find empiricism to be a radical concept. The simplest explanation is that the ultra-left and ultra-right sit next to each other on any chart of political ideologies. So even though communism and fascism are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum, that spectrum bends around to where the two are actually touching. conservatism and liberalism are actually just two pieces in the middle where the moderates reside. The problem with American politics today is that most of the members of the Democratic caucus sit somewhere slightly to the left of the clear middle, while most members of the Republican caucus sit somewhere between the Royalists and the Mussolini corporate fascists. That’s not healthy.

62 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:50:35pm

re: #60 ProTARDISLiberal

And now Albania is a very loyal (though tiny) ally to the US.

To be fair, that was true before Hoxha.

Interesting, I didn’t know that but would I be right in assuming that it had a lot to do with Wilson being supportive of smaller nations that were once part of larger empires in Europe wanting self-determination? I know that’s why Wilson in the months immediately following WWI was probably the most popular man in the world.

63 A Mom Anon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:52:20pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

I can call myself an expert neurosurgeon, even know a little about it, but that doesn’t mean I’m actually a freaking neurosurgeon. I can call anything anything I want to, doesn’t mean a thing unless it’s actually true.

64 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:54:32pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

Didn’t last for long though. Not sure if nationalism was really the answer.

65 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:55:06pm

re: #48 jaunte

[Embedded content]

This person is sort of like the ones who wind up on the TakeThatDarwin timeline.

A name doesn’t necessarily define beliefs or actions.

66 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:55:12pm

OUTRAGE!

67 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:56:58pm

re: #63 A Mom Anon

I can call myself an expert neurosurgeon, even know a little about it, but that doesn’t mean I’m actually a freaking neurosurgeon. I can call anything anything I want to, doesn’t mean a thing unless it’s actually true.

I think it’s just a using a conveinient distraction. “Well libtard, you see they called themselves socialists.” I doubt these people bought that the GDR was anyway democratic but they’ll call the NSDAP socialist and of the left because it suits their agenda. Me as a historian of some sorts, I like to you know look at context clues like who their political enemies were and what they actually did and said. I think it’s accurate to call fascism- third way since it differs from communism and capitalism but I think many right wingers wrongly assume that anti-capitalism= socialism or leftism. Many on the old right hated and in some parts of the world still do since capitalism does on paper anyhow allow for people to move up the social ladder which is why you saw so many in Europe’s aristocratic classes oppose it as it dawned in the 18th century and beyond.

68 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:58:18pm

re: #61 steve_davis

I think the left/right convergence is more realpolitik than ideology. When any extremist political ground gets complete power, the mechanisms for retaining that power are always similar (police state etc.) and the official ideology becomes whatever is most conducive to stability for the regime.

It is much more informative to look at the ideology and acts of such political groups before they seize power, since at that time they have to get their real message out (at least in a watered down form) to attract support. From this point of view, it is usually very easy to tell which groups are hard left and which are hard right.

69 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:58:40pm
70 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 7:59:29pm

re: #64 Carlos Danger

Didn’t last for long though. Not sure if nationalism was really the answer.

It went to the old you can’t please everyone at the same time. Plus, Wilson really pissed off a lot of Irish people and Irish-Americans because of his own innate Anglophile attitudes which resulted in him having a dismissive attitude towards the Irish independence movement- refused to even meet with them or consider their movement. I have a lot of mixed feelings on old WW though. I read a good biography of him though my final year in college. My jury is still out on him. I don’t hate him like Glenn Beck obviously but I don’t think I’d call myself an admirer eitehr.

71 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:00:28pm

re: #66 Lidane

Surprise, surprise, surprise. The NRA uses big data to more efficiently deliver jolts of fear to gun nut brain stems.

72 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:00:29pm

re: #69 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Some dream of bills that will help lessen children starving or people not having enough health care insurance. This guy dreams of impeaching Obama. Sir, that’s not why you were elected. You should really find a new dream.

73 A Mom Anon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:01:22pm

Nighty night lizards.

74 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:03:54pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

It went to the old you can’t please everyone at the same time. Plus, Wilson really pissed off a lot of Irish people and Irish-Americans because of his own innate Anglophile attitudes which resulted in him having a dismissive attitude towards the Irish independence movement- refused to even meet with them or consider their movement. I have a lot of mixed feelings on old WW though. I read a good biography of him though my final year in college. My jury is still out on him. I don’t hate him like Glenn Beck obviously but I don’t think I’d call myself an admirer eitehr.

One thing about Wilson that shocked me when I first learned about it was that apparently once the US was dragged into WWI, the Wilson administration had no use at all for dissent, freedom of expression etc., and was thoroughly enthusiastic about a straight-up domestic propaganda campaign to support the war effort.

75 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:05:10pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

Even before he was elected, I thought Obama resembled Wilson in many ways. His relative fairness on Egypt, for example, ended up making both sides channel their angst against him.

Wilson inspired similar reactions.

76 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:05:21pm

“There are some people out there no matter what Obama does he’s still the greatest president they’ve ever had. That’s what you’re fighting.”
And then there are more people like you Congressman who think he’s the worst and he deserves to be destroyed at all costs, If he thinks Obama hsould be impeached and ti would be his dream to do so, why not present a bill calling for it. Oh wait, he’s too chicken shit to actually do it because he knows his party will get laughed out for even trying that kind od crap.

77 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:06:53pm

re: #74 EPR-radar

One thing about Wilson that shocked me when I first learned about it was that apparently once the US was dragged into WWI, the Wilson administration had no use at all for dissent, freedom of expression etc., and was thoroughly enthusiastic about a straight-up domestic propaganda campaign to support the war effort.

Yeah pretty scary stuff and honestly why people who act like Obama is Mr. awful awful tyrant should look at history.

78 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:07:45pm

re: #66 Lidane

OUTRAGE!

[Embedded content]

That is so incredibly awesome if true

79 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:08:19pm

re: #75 Carlos Danger

Even before he was elected, I thought Obama resembled Wilson in many ways. His relative fairness on Egypt, for example, ended up making both sides channel their angst against him.

Wilson inspired similar reactions.

If I am not mistaken, I think those two are the only ones who really had much of a career in academia before the presidency. LBJ taught school briefly I know but he pretty much was a career politician from his late 20’s on.

80 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:10:09pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

Yeah pretty scary stuff and honestly why people who act like Obama is Mr. awful awful tyrant should look at history.

Conservatives usually have no use for real history. Fairy tale screens for projection is all they want from the past.

81 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:10:44pm

re: #69 Lidane

“I went back to my office and I’ve had lawyers come in” the Congressman continued. “These are lawyers, Ph.Ds in history, and I said ‘tell me how I can impeach the President of the United States.’”

The Michigan Congressman then explained to the audience that someone couldn’t impeach the president without evidence.

Apparently he had to be told about this by the Ph.D lawyers.

82 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:11:26pm

re: #74 EPR-radar

One of these days I’ll have to look up how to German-American vote went in 1920, after the “liberty cabbage” agitprop. The Republicans more or less antagonized that bloc with prohibition though. That’s where FDR comes in.

83 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:12:34pm

re: #81 jaunte

Apparently he had to be told about this by the Ph.D lawyers.

Apparently he was also dead and/or in a coma during the Clinton impeachement, since all the rules of impeachment were covered at length back then.

84 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13:33pm

re: #80 EPR-radar

Conservatives usually have no use for real history. Fairy tale screens for projection is all they want from the past.

See: Reagan, St. Ronald of. Also see: Fathers, Founding.

85 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:14:04pm

Ever look at a school book from the 1910s? They’re usually full of prohibitionist propaganda that makes the anti-marijuana crowd look sane in comparison.

86 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:14:04pm

Really if your life’s ambition as a Congressman is to impeach someone. I think there’s something wrong with you. Sure had I been in office in the Bush years, I would have made it my job to oppose much of his agenda but I would have you know proposed alternatives. This guy doesn’t seem to have any alternative. He just knows he hates Obama and wants him destroyed because he can’t stand the fact that people admire President Obama. I used this quote earlier but JFK apparently was going to say the day he got killed that there will always be dissident voices who will always find fault and never favor and this Congressman while JFK made those words obviously long before he got elected is at the spirit of what JFK was talking about. He has no solutions to policy and just bitches. It’s IMO a lot easier to find fault than solutions which is why I think so many Republican officeholders act this way. It’s easier to just bitch and bitch and not offer any real solution especially when we’re electing more and more people who are running solely because they hate Obama and the left.

87 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:15:07pm

Thank God for Al Smith and Babe Ruth

88 dog philosopher  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:16:18pm

How The NRA Built A Massive Secret Database Of Gun Owners

While the National Rifle Association publicly fights against a national gun registry, the organization has gone to incredible lengths to compile information on “tens of millions” of gun owners — without their consent.

89 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:16:28pm

re: #81 jaunte

The constitutional grounds for impeaching POTUS are “high crimes and misdemeanors”.

What that means is entirely up to Congress. Apparently, some of the US founders thought impeachment would be such a threat to presidents that they would feel a need for Congressional authorization each time they used the White House plumbing facilities.

It hasn’t turned out that way, of course, and the US presidency is a very powerful office.

However, the House can impeach for any reason it sees fit on a majority vote, and the Senate can convict on a 2/3 vote.

The only reason the GOP house is talking about impeachment rather than doing it is that there aren’t 2/3 to convict in the Senate.

90 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:17:13pm
91 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:17:27pm

re: #82 Carlos Danger

One of these days I’ll have to look up how to German-American vote went in 1920, after the “liberty cabbage” agitprop. The Republicans more or less antagonized that bloc with prohibition though. That’s where FDR comes in.

It went huge to Harding even the German Catholics went his way or stayed home. Same thing with the Irish. It’s part of why Harding I think won by such a large percentage of the popular vote. Harding was winning that election anyhow but I think the Irish and German American vote staying home cost Cox easily 5% when you consider that they were predominately urban dwellers. It’s too bad if you ask me. James Cox may have been the best Democratic candidate nominate pre FDR and FWIW my username is more a tribute to Hubert Humphrey than Al Smith though I as an Irish/German American wetter than wet have a soft spot for him.

92 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:17:46pm

re: #89 EPR-radar

The constitutional grounds for impeaching POTUS are “high crimes and misdemeanors”.

What that means is entirely up to Congress.

Two black dogs, but no white dogs.

93 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:17:51pm

Somebody took issue with your post, celticdragon:

94 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:18:55pm

The Babe was a Democrat I believe. But more importantly and awesomely and yet another reason to love the guy is that he didn’t care about race.

95 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:20:49pm

re: #92 jaunte

Two black dogs, but no white dogs.

Is that a high crime or a misdemeanor? Let me thump my magic 8-ball bibble to see… Its both, of course!

96 dog philosopher  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:22:20pm

as old as Babel and as young as the South Korean cloners. It whispered to us in Eden, and it whispers

ah yes his prose has a certain je ne sais pas pourquoi tu n’est pas institutionnalisé

97 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:24:47pm

I’ll admit that I read this post title at first as Ron Dreher is Humping the Shark Again

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:25:23pm

re: #1 celticdragon

Minor correction: The second level of Hell is for the lustful, not the fifth. I adjusted that above.

It’s alright, since Rod Dreher is bound for the 8th level himself, the way he’s going.

99 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:27:58pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

It’s alright, since Rod Dreher is bound for the 8th level himself, the way he’s going.

I would probably die laughing if the Rapture actually occurred and prominent religious bigots were conspicuously left behind.

100 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:30:21pm

Here’s why:

101 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:32:59pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

No wonder he hates it. It’s reasonably written and not full of hysteria and saying that Snowden is the best thing to happen to this country since the Philly cheese steak.

102 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:33:56pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

Real life consequences.

“There is obviously some legitimate debate to be had about the extent and the legality of American surveillance operations. But there is no doubt about the nature of China and Russia. Snowden’s pious invocation of the Nuremberg trials will probably be small comfort to the dissidents and the political prisoners whose cell doors may be locked a little tighter today because of what these authoritarian governments may have learned from his hard drive.”

103 AlexRogan  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:35:40pm

re: #101 HappyWarrior

No wonder he hates it. It’s reasonably written and not full of hysteria and saying that Snowden is the best thing to happen to this country since the Philly cheese steak.

Philly cheese steak is great, but keep the Cheez Whiz off of it; Swiss/Provolone or death!

/partially

104 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:38:04pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

Good find. A reasonable article.

US laws may not be written to cover this exact fact pattern, but as far as I’m concerned, illegally taking classified material to Russia and to China is espionage on its face.

105 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:41:25pm

re: #103 AlexRogan

Philly cheese steak is great, but keep the Cheez Whiz off of it; Swiss/Provolone or death!

/partially

Open your mind to mozzarella!

106 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:44:02pm

I like the title of the OP linked article: “Desire uber alles”

Really sets the stage for a calm and rational discussion, it does. //dripping

107 Lidane  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:50:07pm

So remember the story about the father who was showing off his AR-15 and it went off, killing both him and his son?

Turns out it went off in a room full of ammo:

According to family members, York’s AR-15 rifle accidentally discharged while he was in a back room of their home showing it off to some friends. The discharge ignited a small fire, which “did not seem too threatening at first,” they told WBBJ-TV. The blaze apparently grew out of control after Luke entered the room to help his father put out fire.

That’s when witnesses started hearing explosions.

“It was just like one right after another,” neighbor Kathleen Glass recalled. “One explosion right after another. I just don’t have the words for it because I can not imagine having to go through something like this.”

The family said that York stored a lot of ammunition in the room where the fire started, but officials insisted that they would conduct a full investigation before coming to any conclusions.

108 Kragar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:53:24pm

re: #107 Lidane

So remember the story about the father who was showing off his AR-15 and it went off, killing both him and his son?

Turns out it went off in a room full of ammo:

Stockpiling ammo for the coming revolution?

109 gwangung  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:55:14pm

re: #107 Lidane

Fire? In a roomful of ammo? And not too threatening?

Doesn’t this strike you as a Darwin Award nominee?

110 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:55:26pm

re: #103 AlexRogan

Philly cheese steak is great, but keep the Cheez Whiz off of it; Swiss/Provolone or death!

/partially

Cheese steaks are overrated. Try the pork roll.

111 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:57:13pm

re: #109 gwangung

Fire? In a roomful of ammo? And not too threatening?

Doesn’t this strike you as a Darwin Award nominee?

The crates of live ammo have been there for so long they seem like furniture these days. Never gave it a second thought, actually, except that more ammo is always needed to fend off the inevitable hordes of mindless liberal zombies.

112 Carlos Danger  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:58:41pm

re: #106 EPR-radar

Dude desires a theocracy.

113 jaunte  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:58:41pm
114 freetoken  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:02:39pm

I see the reactionary right is out to purge the GOP of any remaining even slightly reasonable Republicans:

From Tennessee:

Update: Carr says he’s David facing Goliath in Alexander

MURFREESBORO [What is it about Murfreesboro?] — State Rep. Joe Carr compared himself to the biblical David killing the giant Goliath in announcing the Republican will run against U.S. Lamar Alexander today.

“This is a David and Goliath match up,” said Carr, noting that he faces a giant of a fellow Republican and former Tennessee governor with a “well-oiled” political machine that stretches throughout the state. “Alexander has a lot of money.”

Carr said during his press conference in Murfreesboro that he decided to run for the Senate and pull out of the race for the U.S. House of Representatives 4th Congressional District because many people were calling and emailing him to urge him to run against Alexander.

Carr said he’ll take the more than $300,000 he raised to run for Congress and use it in a race for the Senate, especially given Alexander’s support for an “amnesty bill for illegal immigrants.”

The state representative touts his own record of passing legislation that deals with illegal immigrants in a better way than Alexander. This includes Tennessee’s E-Verify Law, the Systematic Alien Verification Entitlement act, the No Sanctuary Cities Law and the Identity Theft for Employment Act.

“I do believe (Alexander’s) out of step” with the conservative, principled values of voters in Tennessee, said Carr, who is from Rutherford County’s Lascassas community northeast of Murfreesboro.

[…]

Carr also complained that Alexander isn’t doing enough to defund Obamacare and contends the senator voted with the president 62 percent of the time.

Carr early in the press conference introduced his “diverse family,” which includes his adopted 13-year-old son, who is a minority.

“We reflect the values here in Tennessee,” said Carr, noting that he’s motivated to serve in Congress because of his opposition to President Barack Obama. “How can we elect a president who doesn’t hold values of personal responsibility, individual liberty and the sovereignty of the state?”

[…]

Evidently Alexander just doesn’t hate Obama enough.

And Carr’s claim of the President “who doesn’t hold values of personal responsibility, individual liberty and the sovereignty of the state?” fails on so many levels, but mostly that it just isn’t factual.

115 EPR-radar  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:04:15pm

re: #112 Carlos Danger

Dude desires a theocracy.

Of course. That is always the end point for these ‘repeal the Enlightenment’ types. These morons have no idea how severely degraded human civilization would be without the Enlightenment. Without the Enlightenment, there would have been much less progress in science, and the carrying capacity of the Earth would probably be 10% or less of what is is now.

So we start with a 90% die back of the human population. Add to that the joys of corrupt theocracy —- think Cromwell-type ‘puritans’ on crack driving gold Rolls Royces —- and the living would envy the dead.

116 freetoken  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:07:35pm

In case you couldn’t have guessed it… Carr is a creationist.

117 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:09:59pm

Wow!

I have never been front paged before.

I’ll just say Thank you to Charles and the lizard crew here.

You are the ones I write this stuff for.

118 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:14:47pm

re: #117 celticdragon

Wow!

I have never been front paged before.

I’ll just say Thank you to Charles and the lizard crew here.

You are the ones I write this stuff for.

You earned it, CD, you earned it.

119 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:15:40pm

re: #62 HappyWarrior

Essentially yes. He saved about 55-60% of Albania from the predations of Greece and Serbia.

The other 40-45% are now part of Greece, Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, and Montenegro.

I’m hoping Albania will be able to get a portion of these areas back. Fuse with Kosovo, and when Serbia acts up again, regain the Presevo Valley region.

Use Greece’s Crisis against them to force them to stop trying to bully Albania into giving Greeks in Albania special rights, which is a glaring hypocrisy considering they give Albanians in Greece no rights whatsoever.

120 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 20, 2013 9:17:16pm

re: #93 Charles Johnson

Somebody took issue with your post, celticdragon:

[Embedded content]

It is how Rod seemed to use the Macintyre passages to buttress an incomprehensible argument that I was amused at.

121 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 6:56:29am

re: #50 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Apparently their very first guest was, Stephen Walt. Don’t know the topic.

122 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 6:57:59am

re: #121 Gus

Apparently their very first guest was, Stephen Walt. Don’t know the topic.

Here’s a piece of his at FP which I no longer follow: America’s Paranoid ‘Stop and Frisk’ on a Global Scale

123 Tribeca Mike  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:40:57am

To quote the 17th century’s Lord Homer of Simpson, “Mmmmm, Francis Bacon.”

124 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:59:02am
It whispered to us in Eden, and it whispers to us now: ye shall be as gods.

The Eden Whisperers. This is great stuff. Please procede, RWNJ.


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