AP: NSA Improperly Collected an Incredibly Tiny Number of Emails

Atomic
US News • Views: 24,317

The Associated Press has a new breaking bombshell story about the NSA: NSA Collected Thousands of US Communications.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The nations’ top intelligence official is declassifying three secret U.S. court opinions showing how the National Security Agency scooped up as many as 56,000 emails annually over three years and other communications by Americans with no connection to terrorism, how it revealed the error to the court and changed how it gathered Internet communications.

What’s the source for this breaking news? Edward Snowden, or another leaker?

Nope, the source is the NSA, and they reported this collection to the FISA court in 2011, after which the court ordered them to find ways to limit data collection of this type. No whistleblowers needed, and action taken.

But what about those large numbers? 56,000 emails per year? That sounds really really really bad, doesn’t it?

Except when you consider that the total number of emails sent per year is about 90 trillion.

I tried to calculate the percentage for this, but I couldn’t find a calculator that would deal with a number that incredibly tiny.

UPDATE at 8/21/13 12:57:03 pm

Wolfram Alpha calculates this percentage as:

0.00000006222222222222222%

(h/t: Gus.)

Jump to bottom

733 comments
1 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:45:30pm

Yes, but the fact that the NSA CAN collect emails is reason enough to freak out and disband the agency and any and all national security data collection. //

2 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:45:55pm

Now the Greenwaldians jump in to declare that the NSA is lying, they’re totally defying the FISA court’s order, and they’ve really been collecting billions every minute “in real time!”

Their proof? They don’t need proof, the government is a liar!

3 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:47:13pm

6.222222222222222×10-8% per year.

4 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:47:38pm

Did You Know 144.8 Billion Emails Are Sent Every Day?

5 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:47:46pm

They gotta sell the stuff that isn’t newsworthy, too, Charles.
All in the name of sensationalism.

6 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:48:07pm

The actual fraction, for interested parties, is 6.22 x 10-8%.

By comparison, 6.22 x 10-8% of the land area of the state of Indiana is the size of a modest two-car garage.

7 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:48:11pm

re: #3 Gus

6.222222222222222×10-8% per year.

Total police state.

8 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:48:22pm

re: #3 Gus

6.222222222222222×10-8% per year.

Huge!

9 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:48:33pm

Gus apparently can look up HTML superscript markup faster than I can.

10 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:48:39pm

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

Or are you just so deep in your (initial) opinion that finding fault with the NSA now would be seen as an embarrassing backtrack?

Because that’s kind of what this looks like to the rest of us (who have other sources of news than LGF)

Your argument is kind of like - Well, I only killed ONE GUY, there are 6 billion people! That’s like a small number of guys I killed!

11 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:48:48pm

“past performance is no guarantee of future results”

imho the existence of this intelligence gathering capability amounts to a temptation to abuse

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:49:15pm

re: #10 triple

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

Or are you just so deep in your (initial) opinion that finding fault with the NSA now would be seen as an embarrassing backtrack?

Because that’s kind of what this looks like to the rest of us (who have other sources of news than LGF)

LOL.

13 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:49:16pm

re: #3 Gus

6.222222222222222×10-8% per year.

Still not to Avogadro’s Email address yet.
;p

14 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:49:47pm

re: #10 triple

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

This would indicate you haven’t actually read this site.

15 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:50:02pm

re: #9 erik_t

Gus apparently can look up HTML superscript markup faster than I can.

< sup > text here < /sup >

No spaces.

Sub for sub.

16 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:50:24pm

re: #10 triple

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

Or are you just so deep in your (initial) opinion that finding fault with the NSA now would be seen as an embarrassing backtrack?

Because that’s kind of what this looks like to the rest of us (who have other sources of news than LGF)

“The rest of us” seem to have their heads so far up their asses that no amount of doubt can penetrate.

17 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:50:39pm

re: #11 dog philosopher

“past performance is no guarantee of future results”

imho the existence of this intelligence gathering capability amounts to a temptation to abuse

Temptation does not equate to abuse.

18 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:50:49pm

re: #10 triple

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

Or are you just so deep in your (initial) opinion that finding fault with the NSA now would be seen as an embarrassing backtrack?

Because that’s kind of what this looks like to the rest of us (who have other sources of news than LGF)

read the threads

19 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:50:54pm

re: #3 Gus

6.222222222222222×10-8% per year.

[moonbat] I reject these numbers! ITS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE!! NSA SPYING WHARGLE BARGLE!! [/moonbat]

20 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:51:32pm

re: #18 dog philosopher

link me. Does charles ever not carry water for the NSA?

21 aagcobb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:51:35pm

re: #10 triple

Do you think there might be a tiny difference between killing someone and intercepting an email? Just maybe?

22 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:51:58pm

re: #20 triple

So why’d you make the claim, if you haven’t actually read the site?

23 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52:01pm

re: #20 triple

link me

Hahahah

24 Shockingly, Pathetically Low  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52:20pm

Sorry to go off-topic so soon… but here’s another answer to A Mom Anon’s question… and it might be one she’d like to see.

healthcareshopper.com

25 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52:32pm

re: #17 Kragar

Temptation does not equate to abuse.

again, past performance does not guarantee future results

i’m not at all certain that future administrations will be as benign as the obama administration

26 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52:33pm

Glad to see oversight is working. “Recently declassified” so we can now argue that this transparency is a good thing. More please. I gotta say I’m not thrilled with the idea of classified court decisions at all. I’ll accept the necessity but with mixed emotions.

re: #4 Kragar

Did You Know 144.8 Billion Emails Are Sent Every Day?

Less the spam it’s about that .8 right? //

27 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52:38pm

re: #22 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

So why’d you make the claim, if you haven’t actually read the site?

You know it’s funny, I used to quite a bit, before I realized he didn’t give a shit about the 4th amendment.

28 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52:39pm

re: #20 triple

link me. Does charles ever not carry water for the NSA?

Troll Step #2: Do my homework for me.

Off to a wild start this afternoon.

29 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:53:49pm

Or you can’t link me because there isn’t a link to post..

30 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:54:16pm

re: #29 triple

Or you can’t link me because there isn’t a link to post..

Start here.

31 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:54:23pm

Used my MS calculator and went to Wolfram|Alpha.

32 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:54:26pm

re: #25 dog philosopher

again, past performance does not guarantee future results

i’m not at all certain that future administrations will be as benign as the obama administration

No, but past performance is obviously the best predictor of future results.

Precisely what alternative do you propose?

33 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:54:59pm

re: #29 triple

Or you can’t link me because there isn’t a link to post..

You make an assertion it’s your responsibility to back it up, not ours.

34 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:55:03pm

7/11,500,000

35 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:55:04pm

re: #25 dog philosopher

again, past performance does not guarantee future results

i’m not at all certain that future administrations will be as benign as the obama administration

In the past, I have never beaten another man senseless, therefore I must be treated as a potential threat to my fellow man, because the possibility exists that I could.

That is what your argument states.

36 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:55:42pm

re: #11 dog philosopher

“past performance is no guarantee of future results”

imho the existence of this intelligence gathering capability amounts to a temptation to abuse

Perfectly true. A rational discussion of these issues would focus on issues like these:

1) What evidence is there of actual illegal abuse?

2) What mechanisms are in place to prevent illegal abuse and identify when it has occurred?

3) What, if anything, needs to be done to strengthen the oversight mechanisms of #2?

4) If activities that are widely viewed as abusive happen to be legal under present law, perhaps changes to the law are in order.

Shrieking and poo-flinging by GG et al. aren’t helping to address any of these issues.

37 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:55:43pm

So…
0.00000006222222222222222%.

38 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:56:17pm

Any argument that operates from the standpoint of ‘guaranteeing’ anything is starting from a rather hopeless position.

How many things that you depend on in life are truly ‘guaranteed’?

39 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:56:53pm

re: #38 erik_t

Any argument that operates from the standpoint of ‘guaranteeing’ anything is starting from a rather hopeless position.

How many things that you depend on in life are truly ‘guaranteed’?

Death, with taxes running a close second.

40 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:56:55pm

re: #27 triple

You know it’s funny, I used to quite a bit, before I realized he didn’t give a shit about the 4th amendment.

Because this is the only 4th amendment fight in the fucking world, and someone who criticizes the NSA and says he’d like the PATRIOT act rolled back, but doesn’t buy into the hysterical and inaccurate bullshit being said, ‘doesn’t give a shit about the 4th amendment.’

41 Internet Tough Guy  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:56:56pm

re: #7 Kragar

Total police state.

Worse than the Holocaust and the Killing Fields combined!

42 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:56:59pm

re: #38 erik_t

Any argument that operates from the standpoint of ‘guaranteeing’ anything is starting from a rather hopeless position.

How many things that you depend on in life are truly ‘guaranteed’?

1.

You’re going to die.

43 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:56:59pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

You make an assertion it’s your responsibility to back it up, not ours.

Actually my assertion was that charles wasn’t posting anything remotely anti-nsa, hence I couldn’t possibly link to something I asserted he never posts.

You guys, on the other hand, say he does.

So.. where?

44 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:57:16pm

re: #27 triple

You know it’s funny, I used to quite a bit, before I realized he didn’t give a shit about the 4th amendment.

“A strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.”

45 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:57:39pm

re: #10 triple

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

Or are you just so deep in your (initial) opinion that finding fault with the NSA now would be seen as an embarrassing backtrack?

Because that’s kind of what this looks like to the rest of us (who have other sources of news than LGF)

Your argument is kind of like - Well, I only killed ONE GUY, there are 6 billion people! That’s like a small number of guys I killed!

You the wo/man! Keep it real, passive aggressive.

46 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:57:50pm

re: #32 erik_t

No, but past performance is obviously the best predictor of future results.

um

Precise what alternative do you propose?

not relaxing my guard just because no serious abuse has been shown at this time

i think charles summarized the attitude re the nsa and the “patriot” act that i agree with very well on sunday

y’all can be sanguine if you like - i’m a cynic and believe in murphy’s law

47 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:58:00pm

re: #29 triple

Or you can’t link me because there isn’t a link to post..

Here you go:

littlegreenfootballs.com

Took me 5 seconds to find and link.

48 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:58:06pm

re: #35 Kragar

In the past, I have never beaten another man senseless, therefore I must be treated as a potential threat to my fellow man, because the possibility exists that I could.

That is what your argument states.

incorrect

49 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:58:34pm

re: #37 Pavlovian Hive Mind

So…
0.00000006222222222222222%.

7.5 cubic meters (just about 2000 gallons) of Lake Superior. A child’s backyard wading pool.

50 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:58:38pm

re: #29 triple

Or you can’t link me because there isn’t a link to post..

littlegreenfootballs.com

51 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:58:40pm

re: #47 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Here you go:

littlegreenfootballs.com

Took me 5 seconds to find and link.

You should take another 5, that’s not posted by charles.

52 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:58:43pm

They didn’t require math in law school. /

Actually they did require math, especially if you’re trying to calculate settlements and here’s what the math indicates.

You’ve got 144.8 billion emails per day. That’s 52.852 trillion emails each year.

56,000 emails improperly gathered over 3 years. That’s 18,666 emails per year. 52 per day (rounded up).

Simple division - and that’s an astounding number that ends up giving calculators a headache because it’s that small an error rate. (52 / 144,800,000,000)

0.0000000003591160220994474513812154691326 in fact.

53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:59:56pm

re: #51 triple

You should take another 5, that’s not posted by charles.

And you don’t read the comments, either?

littlegreenfootballs.com

54 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:00:01pm

re: #51 triple

You should take another 5, that’s not posted by charles.

Charles’ comment #2 to the linked article seems to be on point…

55 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:00:09pm

re: #51 triple

You should take another 5, that’s not posted by charles.

FFS
littlegreenfootballs.com

56 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:00:27pm

re: #36 EPR-radar

Perfectly true. A rational discussion of these issues would focus on issues like these:

1) What evidence is there of actual illegal abuse?

2) What mechanisms are in place to prevent illegal abuse and identify when it has occurred?

3) What, if anything, needs to be done to strengthen the oversight mechanisms of #2?

4) If activities that are widely viewed as abusive happen to be legal under present law, perhaps changes to the law are in order.

Shrieking and poo-flinging by GG et al. aren’t helping to address any of these issues.

that’s about the way i feel about it

57 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:00:41pm

Obdicut is too fast for me.

58 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:00:51pm

re: #10 triple

Charles, are you incapable of finding any fault, whatsoever, with the NSA?

Or are you just so deep in your (initial) opinion that finding fault with the NSA now would be seen as an embarrassing backtrack?

Because that’s kind of what this looks like to the rest of us (who have other sources of news than LGF)

Your argument is kind of like - Well, I only killed ONE GUY, there are 6 billion people! That’s like a small number of guys I killed!

Er, take a look and you will see his posts about his reservations. Look at a poll I did some time ago about 75% of these same people were fine with rescinding the Patriot act as soon as possible. Add to that the 22% that want it to have a more limited scope and your perspective about this place should change.

If one wants to put forth a critical review of this kind of report a fair one would be that it’s limited to “so far so good” with assurances for the always uncertain future.

59 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:01:10pm

Not just a troll, but a lazy one. Boring.

60 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:01:20pm

re: #48 dog philosopher

incorrect

Please, expand on your statement.

61 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:01:55pm

re: #4 Kragar

Did You Know 144.8 Billion Emails Are Sent Every Day?

14/13,213,073

62 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:02:20pm

Haha, Ari Melber going full dudebro on Miranda, who he called GG’s “spouse”.

I don’t think there has been a wedding yet, either civil or other, but semantics aside, it doesn’t matter what Miranda’s relationship is to GG, he should not have had those documents on him because neither the US govt did not authorize him to have them.

And he’s trying to say that security “abused” the process and had no “proof” to offer for a 9 hr detention.

63 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:02:29pm

re: #53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And you don’t read the comments, either?

littlegreenfootballs.com

Machine-assisted analysis of this thread indicates the chance of useful discussion is:

No way in Hell.

64 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:03:14pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb

Machine-assisted analysis of this thread indicates the chances of useful discussion is:

No way in Hell.

Fire up the GAZE!

65 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:03:29pm

triple is speechless.

66 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:04:07pm

re: #38 erik_t

Any argument that operates from the standpoint of ‘guaranteeing’ anything is starting from a rather hopeless position.

How many things that you depend on in life are truly ‘guaranteed’?

1. You, me and everybody else is going to die

67 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:04:33pm

re: #66 Bubblehead II

1. You, me and everybody else is going to die

Speak for yourself, mortal.

68 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:04:40pm

re: #66 Bubblehead II

1. You, me and everybody else is going to die

Well, I’m not.

69 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:05:27pm

re: #59 CuriousLurker

Not just a troll, but a lazy one. Boring.

I don’t dance on cue.

70 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:05:28pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb

Machine-assisted analysis of this thread indicates the chances of useful discussion is:

No way in Hell.

Time to preempt the convention of waiting 40 more comments and starting posting recipes and pictures of cats or food now.

Image: Airplane-power.jpg

71 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:07:09pm

(pops up calculator)
56,000 emails…. 365 days… Hm. Roughly 150 rejected NSA emails per day.

So, we’re talking about the number of messages received by one person on a typical day - and that doesn’t count the mailing list subscriptions.

This is a scandal?

72 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:07:38pm

re: #66 Bubblehead II

1. You, me and everybody else is going to die

Only if my head is removed from my neck.

73 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:08:47pm

What in the fuck …

Fox News Says Three Teens Committed Murder Because There Is Too Much Facebook And Abortion

74 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:09:42pm

re: #73 Kragar

What in the fuck …

Fox News Says Three Teens Committed Murder Because There Is Too Much Facebook And Abortion

Perhaps 3 abortions too few.

75 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:10:33pm

re: #52 lawhawk

They didn’t require math in law school. /

Actually they did require math, especially if you’re trying to calculate settlements and here’s what the math indicates.

You’ve got 144.8 billion emails per day. That’s 52.852 trillion emails each year.

56,000 emails improperly gathered over 3 years. That’s 18,666 emails per year. 52 per day (rounded up).

Simple division - and that’s an astounding number that ends up giving calculators a headache because it’s that small an error rate.

Using the figure from #4 I get 0.0000000003531749035041247%.

76 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:11:53pm

re: #73 Kragar

What in the fuck …

Fox News Says Three Teens Committed Murder Because There Is Too Much Facebook And Abortion

In the old days it was because of too many posters for Vaudeville acts.

77 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:12:35pm

re: #55 Pavlovian Hive Mind

FFS
littlegreenfootballs.com

So the best you got is a comment that says a moderate reform to the NSA is thoughtful? Yeah, I was so far off, silly me.

Charles - let me ask you this. Directly, not to your commenters - not like that will stop them from replying.

It’s been disclosed the NSA is reading our email, listening to our calls, and storing what websites we visit. I’m not a terrorist, I won’t be “in trouble”, but that’s not the point. The point is I have 4th amendment rights to prevent unreasonable searches, and when the NSA stores my emails and my website history for “review”, that’s a search not brought on my probable cause, that’s a search done because I’m using american owned wires. The only reason it’s not illegal is because the FISA “court” (which approves everything) says its legal, but we both know the FISA court is just a rubber stamp and an extension of the NSA itself at this point. Oversight doesn’t exist. Oversight is people like Edward Snowden and newspapers like the guardian at this point. They are the only things stopping the NSA from doing whatever the hell it wants to.

Whether the NSA itself is “allowed to do this” will be a debate among those of us who protect our rights and those of us who don’t in the name of defense from a threat who doesn’t even use email or phone lines in the first place. Maybe the NSA will catch a terrorist on gmail in a g+ hangout skyping with his terrorist buddies on faceagram. But probably not. So why do it?

Why defend it? Maybe there is misinformation from Greenwald, but there’s been a lot more misinformation from the NSA itself. Misinformation to congress. In fact, the NSA has leaked more things about the NSA than snowden ever did, so you don’t even have that to bitch about. And the guy investigating the NSA oversight is the guy who lied to congress about it.. it’s like some idiotic blog post by alex jones, except it’s really happening.

And where did you even get off defending Miranda’s detention? Are we arresting journalists now based on terrorism charges? That is something we support over at lgf? It’s legal to publish classified info. It’s not legal to detain someone because they publish something the government doesn’t want out.

So.. I guess its not really a question.. it’s more of a “where do you get off?”

78 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:13:15pm

re: #73 Kragar

What in the fuck …

Fox News Says Three Teens Committed Murder Because There Is Too Much Facebook And Abortion

Two of the three were charged with first-degree murder; the third was only charged as an accessory.

Let’s see if you can figure out which one!

79 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:13:57pm

re: #77 triple

It’s been disclosed the NSA is reading our email, listening to our calls, and storing what websites we visit.

No it hasn’t.

Ooops, I don’t GAZE very well.

80 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:14:28pm

re: #77 triple

So the best you got is a comment that says a moderate reform to the NSA is thoughtful? Yeah, I was so far off, silly me.

That’s what I have within five seconds. And yes, that is really far off from ‘not giving a shit about the 4th amendment’.

Why is this case the soul of the 4th amendment to you? Serious question.

It’s been disclosed the NSA is reading our email, listening to our calls, and storing what websites we visit.

No, it really hasn’t. Are you seriously contending that all calls and emails are read?

81 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:14:39pm

re: #78 erik_t

Two of the three were charged with first-degree murder; the third was only charged as an accessory.

Takes the fun out of Folsom Prison Blues.

82 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:14:50pm

re: #77 triple

And where did you even get off defending Miranda’s detention? Are we arresting journalists now based on terrorism charges? That is something we support over at lgf? It’s legal to publish classified info. It’s not legal to detain someone because they publish something the government doesn’t want out.

I know I’m not supposed to reply (sorry!) but Miranda was not in fact arrested, nor was the NSA actually involved in an event that happened on British soil.

So much effort typing, yet so little effort thinking…

83 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:14:59pm

Also, if you want to ask Charles something directly, why not email him?

84 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:15:16pm

Small neo-Nazi anti-immigration protest in Berlin dwarfed by turnout for anti-neo-Nazi protest

The far-right National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) tried to drum up anti-foreigner feelings at a rally near the asylum seekers’ centre, a former school set amid drab tower blocks in the city’s east.

In angry scenes overnight, more than 500 anti-fascist protesters confronted the about 40 anti-immigration activists, who eventually left in a street tram under police protection.

Hundreds of riot police separated the groups. One officer was injured by a bottle thrown in his face. In total 25 people were arrested, one for making an illegal straight-armed Hitler salute.

Stuck in the middle have been about 80 political asylum seekers, among them seven children, mostly from war-torn Afghanistan and Syria as well as Serbia — the first of about 200 people expected at the centre.

Around their temporary new home, where they arrived Monday, they have faced signs saying “No to the home” and “Have a nice flight home”. Reports said some refugees had already left in fear.

The racist sentiment was widely condemned by politicians.

“It is unbearable how right-wing demagogues are trying to sow fear,” said Berlin’s Mayor Klaus Wowereit. “Berlin is a city that is open to the world, and that’s why we must allow no space for xenophobia.”

85 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:15:35pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Takes the fun out of Folsom Prison Blues.

PIMF’d a link up there (it got eaten by bad HTML). A refresh may be necessary.

86 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:15:41pm
87 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:16:17pm

re: #82 erik_t

I know I’m not supposed to reply (sorry!) but Miranda was not in fact arrested, nor was the NSA actually involved in an event that happened on British soil.

So much effort typing, yet so little effort thinking…

Sorry, I meant “detained for 9 hours, threatened with arrest, property stolen, and only released when the guardian’s lawyer and the entire country of brazil threatened to sue”

88 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:16:24pm

((56,000/365) / 144,800,000,000) (100) = 0.00000000105956255203209%

89 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:16:25pm

afternoon aww…

firefighter gives oxygen to momma cat as kitten looks on

I tried to track down the original news story but came up empty.

90 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:17:09pm

re: #77 triple

You’re an idiot. NSA collected metadata not the entire E-Mail.

Image: thestupiditburns.jpg

91 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:17:41pm

re: #77 triple

And…. You’re a fucking moron.

92 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:17:41pm

re: #60 Kragar

Please, expand on your statement.

you’ve turned the conclusion on its head

In the past, I have never beaten another man senseless, therefore I must be treated as a potential threat to my fellow man, because the possibility exists that I could.

what i am saying, to line it up for you, is this

In the past, state intelligence gather operations have been abused. just because our current operation has not been shown to be abused, i should not conclude that it never will be

93 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:17:56pm

Charles, that’s like saying people shouldn’t worry about air safety because relatively few people die in plane crashes every year.

94 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:17:56pm

re: #87 triple

Sorry, I meant “detained for 9 hours, threatened with arrest, property stolen, and only released when the guardian’s lawyer and the entire country of brazil threatened to sue”

Wait, I thought he didn’t have access to a lawyer, and this was a point of great brogressive harumphing?

So hard to keep up with the latest iteration of disinformation.

95 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:03pm

re: #87 triple

Sorry, I meant “detained for 9 hours, threatened with arrest, property stolen, and only released when the guardian’s lawyer and the entire country of brazil threatened to sue”

Still a lazy response and not particularly hefty as an intellectual response. It presupposes there were no good basis for suspicion, which is not true.

You can do better than this.

96 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:03pm

re: #77 triple

Baby Troll enters living room, shits on carpet and demands personal attention from mommy.

97 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:12pm

re: #71 RadicalModerate

(pops up calculator)
56,000 emails…. 365 days… Hm. Roughly 150 rejected NSA emails per day.

Divide that by 3. 56K over three years.

Yeah. Smokin’ hot scandal. /

98 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:39pm

re: #85 erik_t

PIMF’d a link up there (it got eaten by bad HTML). A refresh may be necessary.

Came through. Is the fair child also the youngest?

99 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:42pm

“DANCE!” demands the troll, tugging mightily on what it believes to be CJ’s puppet strings, “I demand that you dance NOW, Charles Johnson!”

LMAO, good luck with that. Oh, and please…

100 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:46pm

re: #94 erik_t

He didn’t. He asked and was denied. The guardian sent one regardless.

101 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:47pm

re: #93 triple

Charles, that’s like saying people shouldn’t worry about air safety because relatively few people die in plane crashes every year.

People generally should not worry about air safety, because relatively few people die in plane crashes every year.

Thanks for proving the point about innumeracy, though.

102 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:18:52pm

re: #97 makeitstop

Divide that by 3. 56K over three years.

Yeah. Smokin’ hot scandal. /

No, they stated 56,000 a year.

103 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:19:01pm

re: #97 makeitstop

Divide that by 3. 56K over three years.

Yeah. Smokin’ hot scandal. /

No it says 56K per year.

104 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:19:02pm

re: #93 triple

Charles, that’s like saying people shouldn’t worry about air safety because relatively few people die in plane crashes every year.

Um, no one is saying to not address this it just suggests that this isn’t hair on fire news.

105 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:19:13pm

re: #93 triple

Charles, that’s like saying people shouldn’t worry about air safety because relatively few people die in plane crashes every year.

Should all planes be grounded because they can crash?

106 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:19:24pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

Came through. Is the fair child also the youngest?

Of course not! He’s the oldest.

107 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:19:57pm

re: #100 triple

He didn’t. He asked and was denied. The guardian sent one regardless.

That’s pretty good, because the story as of yesterday was that he was offered one and he refused on the grounds that he didn’t trust the government.

108 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:20:05pm

True fact: Customs will steal your property if you try to smuggle the wrong kind of salami into some countries.

109 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:20:32pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

Should planes with missing wings be allowed to fly?

This is the “collateral damage” argument. You know they’re doing something wrong, but you don’t care, because it comes with the territory.

Protip: We shouldn’t be in the goddamn territory.

(I should say “attempt to fly” actually)

110 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:20:41pm

re: #73 Kragar

What in the fuck …

Fox News Says Three Teens Committed Murder Because There Is Too Much Facebook And Abortion

Yeah, because Facebook and abortion are so rampant in rural Oklahoma.

111 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:20:43pm

re: #77 triple

I doubt the NSA is looking at any of my emails, unless they like reading about political orgs soliciting money. Maybe if one had the words, “money bomb” in them?

Do you think they care about your private life unless you’re engaged in terroristic activities?

112 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:21:36pm

re: #110 RadicalModerate

Teeth, on the other hand, are not.

113 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:21:41pm

re: #104 Gus

Um, no one is saying to not address this it just suggests that this isn’t hair on fire news.

Actually, the only reason this story even exists is because the problem WAS addressed, two years ago.

114 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:21:46pm

re: #92 dog philosopher

what i am saying, to line it up for you, is this

In the past, state intelligence gather operations have been abused. just because our current operation has not been shown to be abused, i should not conclude that it never will be

Correct. But you’re conflating “can’t” with “won’t”.

Then you’re making the frustrating leap from “we can’t be sure about the future based on the past” to “we can’t make likely predictions about the future based on the past”.

115 Mattand  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:22:17pm

re: #77 triple

It’s been disclosed the NSA is reading our email, listening to our calls, and storing what websites we visit. I’m not a terrorist, I won’t be “in trouble”, but that’s not the point.

It’s been disclosed that the NSA needs a shitload of warrants to read our e-mail and listen to our phone calls.

You know who keeps disclosing this?

Glenn Greeenwald. Every fucking article he writes, buried about 5 paragraphs in, mentions that the NSA can’t do anything with the the data unless they get the proper warrants.

Ya know, chief, if you bothered to read the comments here, you’d find most, if not all, people are calling for more NSA transparency. From Charles on down. What LGF and it’s commenters are not doing is purposely lying or obfuscating what’s going on.

No one here says to blindly trust government. They’ve also got two feet planted in reality and are decent critical thinkers.

116 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:22:31pm

re: #92 dog philosopher

you’ve turned the conclusion on its head

what i am saying, to line it up for you, is this

You’re arguing that despite all the safe guards in place, the operations are a threat because, with no actual evidence, they might be used improperly by some nameless threat in the possible future.

Yeah, the NSA should totally just close up shop right away.

117 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:22:37pm

re: #87 triple

It wasn’t all his property. Some of it was the property of the United States govt on his devices.

What is it about that that people don’t understand?

118 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:23:17pm

re: #113 Charles Johnson

Actually, the only reason this story even exists is because the problem WAS addressed, two years ago.

And that the documents describing this were recently declassified. If increased transparency merely results in mindless poo-flinging by the media, that would be a disappointment.

119 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:23:18pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

Should all planes be grounded because they can crash?

YES! Some future administration could have them fly into buildings, like administrations in that past have done!
///////

120 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:23:51pm

re: #109 triple

Should planes with missing wings be allowed to fly?

This is the “collateral damage” argument. You know they’re doing something wrong, but you don’t care, because it comes with the territory.

Protip: We shouldn’t be in the goddamn territory.

(I should say “attempt to fly” actually)

The FAA got into deep shit years back for signing off on planes that were unsafe to fly because Southwest was applying pressure. Should that behavior be viewed as reason to dismantle the FAA?

121 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:24:09pm

re: #100 triple

He didn’t. He asked and was denied. The guardian sent one regardless.

No. He was asked if he wanted a lawyer and he refused.

Even the fucking Guardian says that, genius.

If you’re gonna argue, at least inform yourself beforehand.

122 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:24:32pm

re: #117 Justanotherhuman

It wasn’t all his property. Some of it was the property of the United States govt on his devices.

What is it about that that people don’t understand?

The grumpy brogressive Ars/Slashdot crowd that is gobbling this shit up is, by and large, also the same crowd that has absolutely no qualms about grabbing that hot new album off of bittorrent.

They’ve never been terribly fond of the idea of respecting intellectual property.

123 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:25:15pm

re: #87 triple

Sorry, I meant “detained for 9 hours, threatened with arrest, property stolen, and only released when the guardian’s lawyer and the entire country of brazil threatened to sue”

Stolen property stolen?

124 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:25:19pm

re: #116 Kragar

You’re arguing that despite all the safe guards in place, the operations are a threat because, with no actual evidence, they might be used improperly by some nameless threat in the possible future.

Yeah, the NSA should totally just close up shop right away.

I think a more fair summary of this position is that such capabilities can be abused, so let’s make sure that reasonable oversight is in place to allow necessary intelligence gathering to proceed while minimizing abuse.

125 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:26:04pm
126 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:26:27pm

re: #124 EPR-radar

I think a more fair summary of this position is that such capabilities can be abused, so let’s make sure that reasonable oversight is in place to allow necessary intelligence gathering to proceed while minimizing abuse.

And that has been done, and continues to be done.

127 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:27:04pm

re: #77 triple

The real threat, as always, is the FBI and corporate America. There has been no real privacy since J. Edger took over the FBI - if they want it, they get it by any and every means necessary, law be damned. Corporations are the same. The NSA, by comparison, actually attempts to follow the law and limit their work to what they are told to do.

Getting people to freak out over the non-existent threat of the NSA was a stroke of genius on the part of those who hate the current America and want a far right regime in it’s place. You and yours are helping them achieve one of their goals - Destroy the intelligence infrastructure while not even touching the real privacy threats. So go right on freaking out. Assange & the Koch brother’s are laughing their asses off at you.

128 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:27:18pm

*troll ceases jumping up & down waving arms; begins furiously pawing through its bag of tricks looking for something that will make Charles give it the attention it so desperately craves*

LOL, now I have this mental image of Carrot Top doing one of his stand-up routines with all the weird props.

129 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:27:36pm

re: #125 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Well, because obviously they’re fake documents that the NSA manufactured to release to the public to throw people off the scent. We should instead trust the real documents that Snowden managed to smuggle out because we know he’d have no reason to fake those!

///(Really need a Moonbat font)

130 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:27:48pm

re: #122 erik_t

The grumpy brogressive Ars/Slashdot crowd that is gobbling this shit up is, by and large, also the same crowd that has absolutely no qualms about grabbing that hot new album off of bittorrent.

They’ve never been terribly fond of the idea of respecting intellectual property.

Heh; there’s some irony in that. The same people that are now screaming ZOMG! ITZ FASCISM!! probably have a couple of 1 TB external hard drives chock full o’ movies, albums, and pr0n.

131 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:28:07pm
132 A Mom Anon  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:29:11pm

Vicious Babushka, I found something I think you might like. It’s about the Spirit of Detroit or really, just one example of the awesome people who live there.

133 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:29:24pm

I figured it out. These figures are like homeopathy.

134 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:29:35pm

re: #127 William Barnett-Lewis

The real threat, as always, is the FBI and corporate America. There has been no real privacy since J. Edger took over the FBI - if they want it, they get it by any and every means necessary, law be damned. Corporations are the same. The NSA, by comparison, actually attempts to follow the law and limit their work to what they are told to do.

Getting people to freak out over the non-existent threat of the NSA was a stroke of genius on the part of those who hate the current America and want a far right regime in it’s place. You and yours are helping them achieve one of their goals - Destroy the intelligence infrastructure while not even touching the real privacy threats. So go right on freaking out. Assange & the Koch brother’s are laughing their asses off at you.

Mixed emotions: Getting your security clearance approved and realizing the FBI really doesn’t give a shit about what you did in the 60s.

135 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:30:26pm

Do all these brain trust dudebros even consider that if Snowden hadn’t stolen State secrets (what I saw was marked “Top Secret”), and hadn’t tried to courier it through Miranda, he would never have been detained?

Obviously, that fact escapes them entirely.

It’s as if you’re supposed to be allowed to see every single thing on file in every dept, every agency in the US govt.

It’s never happened in the past, and it ain’t gonna happen now. The Constitution (if people would stop and read it) guarantees that. Just because it doesn’t exist in the Bill of Rights doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

136 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:31:05pm

Well SHIT. Web.com was billing my foundation for some bogus “SEO marketing services” and I only just now found out about it because my card was declined for some unknown reason.

I told the marketing person to DISCONTINUE to “SEO marketing service” which they attached to my hosting account when they took over the hosting service I have been using since 1998.

137 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:31:06pm

re: #126 Kragar

And the error rate continues dropping, because protocols are refined to reduce inadvertent bycatch.

Actually, a fishing analogy comes to mind.

The NSA are the guys on the Time Bandit. They want to catch opilio crab, but don’t want bycatch. They don’t want to get immature or the wrong species.

They set their traps, and they haul ‘em in. Any empty traps are either reset, or moved to more opportune locations.

If the trap picks up too many of the wrong species or are immature, they’re tossed back, and the process begins again.

They have incentives to get only the right species and the right size because anything else will have opportunity costs.

The NSA faces a similar position. They waste time and opportunity costs pulling your grandmothers’ recipes and sexting and crotch shots. They want to know what the bad guys are up to.

But in the billions upon billions of messages they sort through on a daily basis, there’s a handful that shouldn’t have been. That’s what their own internal audits found, and that’s what they’re looking to reduce.

138 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:31:18pm

re: #116 Kragar

You’re arguing that despite all the safe guards in place, the operations are a threat because, with no actual evidence, they might be used improperly by some nameless threat future administration that doesn’t have the moral integrity of the obama administration in the possible future.

correct

Yeah, the NSA should totally just close up shop right away.

i didn’t say that. don’t put words in my mouth

139 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:31:50pm

re: #133 Gus

I figured it out. These figures are like homeopathy.

That’s right - the smaller the number, the more incredibly horrible the problem is.

140 A Mom Anon  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:32:03pm

re: #127 William Barnett-Lewis

Yep, wonder if “triple” has read anything at all about the HUGE database the NRA has been compiling about gun owners. The same gun owners they fearmonger into purchasing huge caches of weapons and ammo to protect them against the evil demon devil intrusive government.

Somehow, I don’t think so.

141 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:32:17pm

re: #128 CuriousLurker

*troll ceases jumping up & down waving arms; begins desperately pawing through its bag of tricks looking for something that will make Charles give it the attention it so desperately craves*

LOL, now I have this image of Carrot Top doing one of his stand=up routines with all the weird props.

Carrot Top = hair on fire = triple

I can’t help thinking ‘triple facepalm’.

142 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:32:32pm
One email is a tragedy; a million emails is a statistic — Joseph Stalin #realtwitterzquotes
143 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:32:34pm

re: #127 William Barnett-Lewis

The real threat, as always, is the FBI and corporate America. There has been no real privacy since J. Edger took over the FBI - if they want it, they get it by any and every means necessary, law be damned. Corporations are the same. The NSA, by comparison, actually attempts to follow the law and limit their work to what they are told to do.

Getting people to freak out over the non-existent threat of the NSA was a stroke of genius on the part of those who hate the current America and want a far right regime in it’s place. You and yours are helping them achieve one of their goals - Destroy the intelligence infrastructure while not even touching the real privacy threats. So go right on freaking out. Assange & the Koch brother’s are laughing their asses off at you.

One hopes that FBI abuses as in COINTELPRO are no longer taking place.

144 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:33:20pm

Yeah, the NSA should totally just close up shop right away.

you know, the bullshit strawman putting words in other people’s mouths style of arguing is not fair debate practice

please make a note of it

145 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:33:23pm

Mohr cuteness…

Baby Gladys at the Cincinnati Zoo

Full disclosure: For a few weeks back in the very early 1970s, I had the 3-7 am shift for pregnant gorilla watch at the Cincinnati Zoo. Mom went into labor during my shift. Much excitement ensued as keepers were notified. Shift ended, I had to head over to UC campus for my first class of the morning. Baby gorilla popped out within 30 minutes after I left.
One of my life regrets was not being there for the big reveal.

146 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:34:24pm

re: #144 dog philosopher

Yeah, the NSA should totally just close up shop right away.

you know, the bullshit strawman putting words in other people’s mouths style of arguing is not fair debate practice

please make a note of it

Your entire argument on this topic is, honestly, a bullshit strawman. Sorry.

147 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:35:28pm

re: #139 Charles Johnson

That’s right - the smaller the number, the more incredibly horrible the problem is.

Fear in a bottle. Homeopafear™.

148 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:35:49pm

re: #140 A Mom Anon

Yep, wonder if “triple” has read anything at all about the HUGE database the NRA has been compiling about gun owners. The same gun owners they fearmonger into purchasing huge caches of weapons and ammo to protect them against the evil demon devil intrusive government.

Somehow, I don’t think so.

I pointed that out on a liberal gun site today and the first comment was that it was fear mongering against the NRA. Did a head desk and have ignored the thread since for the sake of my blood pressure.

149 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:36:06pm

re: #146 erik_t

Your entire argument on this topic is, honestly, a bullshit strawman. Sorry.

well, i see you have addressed the facts and given a detailed refutation without resorting to ad hominem arguments

thank you so much

150 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:36:10pm

re: #143 EPR-radar

One hopes that FBI abuses as in COINTELPRO are no longer taking place.

“One never know, do one?”

151 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:36:20pm

re: #147 Gus

Fear in a bottle. HomeopafearTM.

Fearopathy.

152 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:37:06pm

re: #128 CuriousLurker

Ha!

153 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:37:51pm

re: #149 dog philosopher

well, i see you have addressed the facts and given a detailed refutation without resorting to ad hominem arguments

thank you so much

I’m still waiting for you to present a fact as opposed to an opinion.

154 Lidane  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:38:03pm

I can’t help but be amused by all these NSA freakouts. It’s like this country lives in a state of collective amnesia.

40+ years of Cold War paranoia. 12 years since the 9/11 attacks. And it’s only now dawning on people that the US government might spy on people? WTF.

155 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:38:04pm

re: #146 erik_t

Your entire argument on this topic is, honestly, a bullshit strawman. Sorry.

i suppose you mean to guarantee me that our current intelligence gathering apparatus has absolutely zero chance of being abused at any time in the future

156 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:38:07pm

re: #150 Decatur Deb

“One never know, do one?”

It is ironic that COINTELPRO apparently only came to light because of a burglary of an FBI field office.

157 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:38:13pm

So they’re collecting about one in every 1.6 billion emails? That’s why my Nigerian prince hasn’t written back.

158 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:38:55pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

Fearopathy.

Fearopractic Medicine™

159 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:39:31pm

re: #143 EPR-radar

Just less blatant these days, but the leopard has not changed it’s spots. Look to what they pulled in the Twin Cities in the run up to the Republican National Convention for example.

motherjones.com

twincities.indymedia.org

commondreams.org

Same as it ever was.

160 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:39:44pm

re: #132 A Mom Anon

Vicious Babushka, I found something I think you might like. It’s about the Spirit of Detroit or really, just one example of the awesome people who live there.

Cool, thanks.

There is really no decent public transport in the Motor City. DDOT buses do not run to the suburbs, and SMART buses are not allowed to operate inside the Detroit city limits.

Also the DDOT buses are totally plastered with posters from this ambulance-chaser, while Pamela is suing SMART because they refused to allow her Muslim-hating posters.

I don’t know what routes are serviced by the DBC, even if they just go up and down Woodward from downtown out past 8 Mile that’s better than nothing.

161 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:40:02pm

re: #157 darthstar

So they’re collecting about one in every 1.6 billion emails? That’s why my Nigerian prince hasn’t written back.

[moonbat] The NSA intercepts all of the emails with the wire transfer authorizations. That’s why nobody every gets any money from such correspondence. [/moonbat]

162 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:40:32pm

re: #155 dog philosopher

i suppose you mean to guarantee me that our current intelligence gathering apparatus has absolutely zero chance of being abused at any time in the future

To produce zero incidents, you would need to close down the operations entirely. No NSA, no possibility the NSA or anyone else could abuse their abilities.

163 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:40:37pm

re: #153 Kragar

I’m still waiting for you to present a fact as opposed to an opinion.

i’m not presenting facts, i am exactly giving an opinion

which is, i think the current intelligence gathering apparatus, which has been expanded from its former capability in the last ten years, could very well be subject to abuse in the future

if you can guarantee me that no future administration or person working in the nsa will ever abuse it, i would be pleased to hear it

but you can’t

164 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:40:39pm

re: #155 dog philosopher

i suppose you mean to guarantee me that our current intelligence gathering apparatus has absolutely zero chance of being abused at any time in the future

Obviously I cannot guarantee that. Neither can anyone else, and no matter how limp and ineffective our national security establishment became, I still could not guarantee this. Having the conversation in the context of this hypothetical guarantee is distracting and pointless, because it is a thing that can never be.

This is pretty much the exact definition of a strawman.

165 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:41:15pm

Sky News liked this so much they posted it twice:

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 23m

Lawyers for journalist’s partner David Miranda held at Heathrow make application to stop Govt doing anything with documents seized from him

166 b.d.  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:41:18pm

re: #131 Gus

“I demand that stolen US secret docs. be kept secret and returned to me, a Brazilian national, its rightful owner!”

Awesome.

And I also demand an upgrade to 1st Class after being detained!
(If he already wasn’t flying 1st Class, it’s The Guardian’s dime after all)

167 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:41:19pm

re: #162 Kragar

To produce zero incidents, you would need to close down the operations entirely. No NSA, no possibility the NSA or anyone else could abuse their abilities.

i don’t expect to produce zero incidents

168 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:41:24pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

Carrot Top = hair on fire = triple

I can’t help thinking ‘triple facepalm’.

It’s gonna be doing this in a little bit.

169 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:42:20pm
170 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:42:22pm

For those who reject the idea that future administrations could ever abuse the NSA…I as you to consider “President Peter King”.

There is nothing wrong with asking for more transparency and better oversight.

171 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:42:22pm

re: #140 A Mom Anon

Yep, wonder if “triple” has read anything at all about the HUGE database the NRA has been compiling about gun owners. The same gun owners they fearmonger into purchasing huge caches of weapons and ammo to protect them against the evil demon devil intrusive government.

Somehow, I don’t think so.

I have. (my reaction: lol) Also, why do you assume I’m conservative? I’m probably more liberal than you.

172 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:42:27pm

re: #164 erik_t

Obviously I cannot guarantee that. Neither can anyone else, and no matter how limp and ineffective our national security establishment became, I still could not guarantee this.

then you agree with me, since all i am saying is that there is the potential for abuse

173 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:42:56pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

It’s gonna be doing this in a little bit.

Ow. Hope there were some blankets & Dawn dish soap handy to get the oil off that penguin in real life.

174 b.d.  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:43:03pm

re: #161 EPR-radar

[moonbat] The NSA intercepts all of the emails with the wire transfer authorizations. That’s why nobody every gets any money from such correspondence. [/moonbat]

All government money is marked and traceable!!1!

Buy Gold!!!

175 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:43:21pm

re: #155 dog philosopher

i suppose you mean to guarantee me that our current intelligence gathering apparatus has absolutely zero chance of being abused at any time in the future

I wouldn’t say that at all. But it’s clear from the facts we now know that the NSA and the Intelligence Committee and the FISA courts are well aware of the potential for abuse and have put a lot of effort into mitigating that potential as much as possible.

As I’ve said many times, I want massive reform or repeal of the Patriot Act, and more transparency in the operation of the FISC and the NSA. But there’s way too much fear-mongering going on in this issue, and a lot of it is simply bullshit.

176 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:43:56pm

re: #172 dog philosopher

then you agree with me, since all i am saying is that there is the potential for abuse

The sky is also blue.

Can’t we have a more useful and productive discussion than that?

177 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:44:32pm

re: #171 triple

I have. (my reaction: lol) Also, why do you assume I’m conservative? I’m probably more liberal than you.

oh?

178 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:44:51pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

It’s gonna be doing this in a little bit.

I think it already has. It’s gone strangely quiet, for someone who came in here all ready to show Charles up.

179 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:45:12pm

“past performance is no guarantee of future results”

imho the existence of this intelligence gathering capability amounts to a temptation to abuse

this is my original statement

please note that 1) it is a statement of opinion, 2) it does not call for shutting down the nsa

thank you

180 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:45:20pm

re: #165 Justanotherhuman

Sky News liked this so much they posted it twice:

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 23m

Lawyers for journalist’s partner David Miranda held at Heathrow make application to stop Govt doing anything with documents seized from him

What’s wrong with this picture?

181 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:45:29pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

I wouldn’t say that at all. But it’s clear from the facts we now know that the NSA and the Intelligence Committee and the FISA courts are well aware of the potential for abuse and have put a lot of effort into mitigating that potential as much as possible.

As I’ve said many times, I want massive reform or repeal of the Patriot Act, and more transparency in the operation of the FISC and the NSA. But there’s way too much fear-mongering going on in this issue, and a lot of it is simply bullshit.

Ayep, it’s hard as fuck to have a constructive discussion about all this when those who supposedly want to spark that discussion are full of shit. Case in point, the Macbook Pro that had parts from a 90s PC.

182 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:45:51pm

Very interesting.

183 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:46:18pm

re: #176 erik_t

The sky is also blue.

Can’t we have a more useful and productive discussion than that?

if all i am saying is that the sky is blue, what were you ragging me about?

184 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:46:39pm

re: #163 dog philosopher

i’m not presenting facts, i am exactly giving an opinion

which is, i think the current intelligence gathering apparatus, which has been expanded from its former capability in the last ten years, could very well be subject to abuse in the future

if you can guarantee me that no future administration or person working in the nsa will ever abuse it, i would be pleased to hear it

but you can’t

Then allow me to inform you your opinion is utter and complete nonsense. Thousands of individuals across several agencies of government are dedicated to making sure the kind of abuse you are so worried about is found out and stopped, because it takes away from the mission these people are dedicated to serving. In every organization on Earth, there are going to be people who attempt to abuse their position and do a huge disservice to good people trying to make a real difference. Try actually living in the real world some time, and not your Greenwald induced paranoid conspiracy distopia.

185 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:47:21pm

re: #167 dog philosopher

i don’t expect to produce zero incidents

You wanted a guarantee, this would guarantee its not abused.

186 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:48:16pm

re: #177 wrenchwench

oh?

I used to be a conservative. I know, people change opinions, beliefs. It’s called “your 20s” and “college”. You might note that comment is from.. what, 6 years ago or something?

187 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:48:37pm

re: #175 Charles Johnson

I wouldn’t say that at all. But it’s clear from the facts we now know that the NSA and the Intelligence Committee and the FISA courts are well aware of the potential for abuse and have put a lot of effort into mitigating that potential as much as possible.

As I’ve said many times, I want massive reform or repeal of the Patriot Act, and more transparency in the operation of the FISC and the NSA. But there’s way too much fear-mongering going on in this issue, and a lot of it is simply bullshit.

i agree with that

to my mind, this statement

I want massive reform or repeal of the Patriot Act, and more transparency in the operation of the FISC and the NSA

would be the kind of thing you’d want to look into if you thought this

the existence of this intelligence gathering capability amounts to a temptation to abuse

your mileage may vary

188 A Mom Anon  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:48:38pm

re: #160 Vicious Babushka

I thought it was cool that they’re basically recycling old school buses and old transit buses and painting them all wild and artsy crazy and servicing that corridor where there was a need.

I’m always cheered when I hear a story about someone in Detroit filling a niche in some creative way and making the city just a little more hopeful, a little better. That’s America for real, I wish it was more contagious.

189 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:49:19pm

re: #185 Kragar

You wanted a guarantee, this would guarantee its not abused.

i was saying exactly that there can’t be a guarantee that it will not be abused

that was what i was saying

190 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:49:56pm

re: #165 Justanotherhuman

Sky News liked this so much they posted it twice:

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 23m

Lawyers for journalist’s partner David Miranda held at Heathrow make application to stop Govt doing anything with documents seized from him

Stop them from doing what with them? Stop them from releasing them to a newpaper or hostile government? Hate the competition?

191 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:51:02pm

re: #184 Kragar

Then allow me to inform you your opinion is utter and complete nonsense. Thousands of individuals across several agencies of government are dedicated to making sure the kind of abuse you are so worried about is found out and stopped, because it takes away from the mission these people are dedicated to serving. In every organization on Earth, there are going to be people who attempt to abuse their position and do a huge disservice to good people trying to make a real difference. Try actually living in the real world some time, and not your Greenwald induced paranoid conspiracy distopia.

what exactly is so offensive to you about the opinion that intelligence gathering operations are a temptation to abuse?

192 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:51:08pm

re: #186 triple

I used to be a conservative. I know, people change opinions, beliefs. It’s called “your 20s” and “college”.

How could any young person actually be a conservative unless they were brainwashed from birth?

Young people should be all about experimenting with life to see what fits them and keep an open mind, not swallow propaganda without examination.

If you haven’t learned that by the time you get to college, you’ve been kept under a rock.

193 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:51:23pm

re: #189 dog philosopher

i was saying exactly that there can’t be a guarantee that it will not be abused

that was what i was saying

And then I point out their are multiple safe guards in place to prevent that, then you say again there is no guarantee in that a future administration wont blah blah blah.

194 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:51:29pm

re: #170 blueraven

For those who reject the idea that future administrations could ever abuse the NSA…I as you to consider “President Peter King”.

There is nothing wrong with asking for more transparency and better oversight.

Given time, it is inevitable that information gathering will be abused, and badly. That’s not a product of especially evil politicians. It’s a product of expanding technology and human nature. Eternal vigilance, etc, etc.

195 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:52:16pm

re: #186 triple

I used to be a conservative. I know, people change opinions, beliefs. It’s called “your 20s” and “college”. You might note that comment is from.. what, 6 years ago or something?

You also used to think that a tiny number out of a big number was insignificant. Did you take an anti-math class in college?

196 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:52:36pm

re: #191 dog philosopher

what exactly is so offensive to you about the opinion that intelligence gathering operations are a temptation to abuse?

Why do you hold the people in the US intelligence community in such low regard that you think they would stand for it?

197 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:52:49pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

Very interesting.

Don’t be evil.

198 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:53:34pm

re: #194 Decatur Deb

Given time, it is inevitable that information gathering will be abused, and badly. That’s not a product of especially evil politicians. It’s a product of expanding technology and human nature. Eternal vigilance, etc, etc.

True, but one President can certainly poison the well…cough*NIXON

199 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:53:42pm

re: #192 Justanotherhuman

How could any young person actually be a conservative unless they were brainwashed from birth?

Young people should be all about experimenting with life to see what fits them and keep an open mind, not swallow propaganda without examination.

If you haven’t learned that by the time you get to college, you’ve been kept under a rock.

lol. You try growing up catholic.. while listening to rush on your way to work.. after 9/11 happened just when you were starting to get interested in politics.

It took my brother dragging me to an ows rally to firmly plant me on the liberal side of things, but I can actually trace it back to when I decided god wasn’t real, and then I had a bunch of friends.. who were gay.. and I decided republican politics weren’t helping people like me. (note: not gay, but gay friendly!)

200 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:54:02pm

re: #186 triple

I used to be a conservative. I know, people change opinions, beliefs. It’s called “your 20s” and “college”. You might note that comment is from.. what, 6 years ago or something?

How… convenient.

Do you think if you could had the opportunity you could restate your initial premise in a method that was less confrontational and trollish?

201 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:54:22pm

re: #199 triple

What are your thoughts on Glenn Greenwald?

202 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:54:27pm

re: #193 Kragar

And then I point out their are multiple safe guards in place to prevent that, then you say again there is no guarantee in that a future administration wont blah blah blah.

yes, i don’t think the safeguards in place are a guarantee that there won’t be abuse in the future

in general, humans put safeguards in place to prevent abuse, and then other humans come along and try to get around them

i don’t know why this opinion gets under your skin so much

203 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:54:36pm

re: #198 blueraven

True, but one President can certainly poison the well…cough*NIXON

Thinking of Ollie North and Poindexter.

204 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:54:47pm

re: #190 Eventual Carrion

Stop them from doing what with them? Stop them from releasing them to a newpaper or hostile government? Hate the competition?

They want to stop the British authorities from turning over the documents to the US Government, as it is very likely to be incriminating evidence for espionage and possession of stolen material charges, just for starters.

205 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:55:24pm

re: #200 Feline Fearless Leader

How… convenient.

Also switched.. the founder of this site.. just a heads up.

206 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:55:46pm

well you gotta love the reasoning here…. the law and the government are evil because they have the capacity to break those very laws that protect our privacy. How do we know this? By the fact that some guy broke one of the existing laws (Snowden/Espionage Act) to tell us that the Government can do just that while he was working as an employee for said government without providing much in the way of proof in how the government was abusing said laws to begin with, but manages to undermine the very agency, who’s existence is there to protect the country from people that wish to do it harm.


and this guy, is seen as a visionary by some…. sighs

207 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:56:15pm

re: #202 dog philosopher

yes, i don’t think the safeguards in place are a guarantee that there won’t be abuse in the future

in general, humans put safeguards in place to prevent abuse, and then other humans come along and try to get around them

i don’t know why this opinion gets under your skin so much

It’s not an opinion. It’s simply a banal statement of fact. Similarly, I don’t know why this statement is something you feel the need to keep returning to, because it’s simply not offering any additional insight.

208 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:56:20pm

re: #205 triple

Also switched.. the founder of this site.. just a heads up.

So why troll him?

209 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:56:31pm

re: #201 Pavlovian Hive Mind

What are your thoughts on Glenn Greenwald?

Just doing his job. Most journalists have forgotten their job is to print things certain people don’t want printed.

210 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:56:37pm

re: #205 triple

Also switched.. the founder of this site.. just a heads up.

Yes but he didn’t go full on moonbat.

211 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:56:54pm

re: #208 wrenchwench

So why troll him?

I don’t think asking a pointed question is a troll. We disagree, strongly.

212 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:57:18pm

re: #209 triple

Just doing his job. Most journalists have forgotten their job is to print things certain people don’t want printed.

Then why did he decide to sit on a bunch of other information until the United Kingdom made him all grumpy?

213 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:57:19pm

re: #196 Kragar

Why do you hold the people in the US intelligence community in such low regard that you think they would stand for it?

again you are putting words in my mouth - please stop

i don’t hold the people in the intelligence community in low regard

human beings have not been perfected and some of them are likely to do bad things in the future

214 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:57:52pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

Very interesting.

bwahahaaa!!!

215 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:58:05pm

re: #212 erik_t

Then why did he decide to sit on a bunch of other information until the United Kingdom made him all grumpy?

That’s how the media works. If he blew his load all at once, it’d be a non-story in a week. This keeps it in the news, and keeps the pressure on.

And “made him grumpy” is quite the euphemism for detaining his partner for 9 hours, threatening with jail and arrest, never seeing his family again, stealing all his stuff.. on suspicion of “terrorism”.

Journalism often makes governments upset, but it’s a far cry from blowing a plane up.

216 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:58:22pm

There’s someone going around and signing my name and email address to random petitions and mailing lists again.

217 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:58:26pm

re: #199 triple

lol. You try growing up catholic.. while listening to rush on your way to work.. after 9/11 happened just when you were starting to get interested in politics.

It took my brother dragging me to an ows rally to firmly plant me on the liberal side of things, but I can actually trace it back to when I decided god wasn’t real, and then I had a bunch of friends.. who were gay.. and I decided republican politics weren’t helping people like me.

Do you have a minute to talk with me about est? It will help you find your Center.

218 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:59:14pm

re: #207 erik_t

It’s not an opinion. It’s simply a banal statement of fact. Similarly, I don’t know why this statement is something you feel the need to keep returning to, because it’s simply not offering any additional insight.

i am just answering you when you reply to me

219 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:59:41pm

re: #211 triple

I don’t think asking a pointed question is a troll. We disagree, strongly.

And this?

So.. I guess its not really a question.. it’s more of a “where do you get off?”

220 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:59:48pm

re: #213 dog philosopher

again you are putting words in my mouth - please stop

i don’t hold the people in the intelligence community in low regard

human beings have not been perfected and some of them are likely to do bad things in the future

You keep suggesting they would abuse their authority, despite all evidence to the contrary, including information showing how they actively try to reduce incidents outside their mission.

221 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 1:59:59pm
222 ObserverArt  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:00:14pm

So, I am watching MSNBC for giggles and Joy just said they offered Glenn a chance to make a statement but he sent a long diatribe against NBC.

One of these days not too far off, everyone will grow tired of Greenwald. Even his supporters.

I hope they keep watching.

223 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:00:29pm

re: #219 wrenchwench

And this?

I think if CJ wants civility he should start with how he has treated mr. snowden.

224 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:00:52pm

re: #220 Kragar

You keep suggesting they would abuse their authority, despite all evidence to the contrary, including information showing how they actively try to reduce incidents outside their mission.

human beings are imperfect

225 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:00:57pm

re: #223 triple

Oh, go eat a bag of dicks.

226 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:01:11pm

re: #224 dog philosopher

human beings are imperfect

OFFS.

227 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:01:18pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Man. Both my teenage heart-thobs.

228 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:01:32pm

re: #199 triple

Actually, I did “grow up Catholic” but got out when I was a very young teen because living in a bubble wasn’t for me.

229 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:01:39pm

re: #225 Kragar

Oh, go eat a bag of dicks.

oh you

230 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:01:49pm

re: #223 triple

I think if CJ wants civility he should start with how he has treated mr. snowden.

What, like a spy who defected to the Chinese and Russians?

Sniveling little shit should go rot in Florence.

231 KernelPanic  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:01:54pm

I swear by FSM’s noodly appendage that I will not flounce nor unsubscribe nor stop hitting this site often. The freaky thing is that I now understand what it feels like as an ‘invested’ community member who sees the site/community moving in a different direction. Made me realize that I felt sorta selfish/possessive about how LGF covered the world.

232 b.d.  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:02:17pm

re: #222 ObserverArt

So, I am watching MSNBC for giggles and Joy just said they offered Glenn a chance to make a statement but he sent a long diatribe against NBC.

One of these days not too far off, everyone will grow tired of Greenwald. Even his supporters.

I hope they keep watching.

Wait, I thought Glenn said that they had to read his statement on the air!!?

As soon as Glenn topples the UK, NBC will be next!

233 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:02:24pm

re: #205 triple

Also switched.. the founder of this site.. just a heads up.

Do you have a response to the question I asked in that same comment?

Also, the founder of this site has a lot more writing here I can read and see the transition in views occurring and the thought process that accompanied it. You have < 40 comments, no pages, and due to how you entered the conversation and have since represented yourself I have some reason to not take your word on it.

234 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:03:35pm

re: #230 erik_t

What, like a spy who defected to the Chinese and Russians?

Sniveling little shit should go rot in Florence.

SEND HIM TO DETROIT!

235 Dr. Matt  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:03:43pm

re: #222 ObserverArt

One of these days not too far off, everyone will grow tired of Greenwald. .

Except Chris Hayes and Cenk Uygur. GG Fanboys for Life!

236 A Mom Anon  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:03:51pm

OK, so I went on a bit of a tear about the kid who wanted to shoot up a school in Decatur,GA yesterday, and then I read this. And I feel kinda awful about this kid.

I have a son around that age. Alienated and ostracized by his peers, and likely a big thing stopping my kid from going that route is that he knows he’s loved. I tell him every. single. day. Without fail. And every single morning he comes out of his room and smiles at me and says “Good Morning Mom!” and hugs me. Every. Day.

Have we always been so tough on each other? So quick to judge? I don’t know if it’s a mom instinct kicking in or what but I wonder and hope this young man really does have people who love him and tell him so, somewhere in his life and that once he gets out of jail someone will show compassion and empathy and help him stay on his meds and do what he has to to make things right in his life again.

237 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:04:18pm

re: #222 ObserverArt

So, I am watching MSNBC for giggles and Joy just said they offered Glenn a chance to make a statement but he sent a long diatribe against NBC.

One of these days not too far off, everyone will grow tired of Greenwald. Even his supporters.

I hope they keep watching.

238 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:04:43pm

re: #223 triple

Snowden is a thief. Simple.

239 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:04:51pm

re: #233 Feline Fearless Leader

Do you have a response to the question I asked in that same comment?

Also, the founder of this site has a lot more writing here I can read and see the transition in views occurring and the thought process that accompanied it. You have < 40 comments, no pages, and due to how you entered the conversation and have since represented yourself I have some reason to not take your word on it.

You don’t have to take my word for it. I’m not a politician and I can change my political opinions as I please. With that said, please look at all the fucks I have to give.

240 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:05:43pm

re: #223 triple

I think if CJ wants civility he should start with how he has treated mr. snowden.

Poor Mr. Snowden.

Do you think Charles has hurt him terribly?

I think if Mr. Snowden were commenting here in a civil way, he would get civil treatment.

Also if he hadn’t stolen and released government secrets in such a way as to endanger the lives of many, he would probably get respect.

241 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:06:27pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

Poor Mr. Snowden.

Do you think Charles has hurt him terribly?

I think if Mr. Snowden were commenting here in a civil way, he would get civil treatment.

Also if he hadn’t stolen and released government secrets in such a way as to endanger the lives of many, he would probably get respect.

The NSA has as of today released more government secrets than Edward, but I don’t see you complaining.

242 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:06:41pm

re: #240 wrenchwench

Poor Mr. Snowden.

Do you think Charles has hurt him terribly?

I think if Mr. Snowden were commenting here in a civil way, he would get civil treatment.

Also if he hadn’t stolen and released government secrets in such a way as to endanger the lives of many, he would probably get respect.

Didn’t the Ars Technica Snowden advocate that leakers should be shot?

243 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:06:42pm

re: #236 A Mom Anon

No link joy.

244 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:06:43pm

This isn’t going to make the NRA-types who are trying to arm all teachers happy.

What led Georgia school gunman to give up

Atlanta (CNN) — He slipped in, police say, behind someone else — armed and ready to do battle with police from a school as hundreds of frightened children huddled in their classrooms.

Then suspect Michael Brandon Hill met Antoinette Tuff, a front office worker at Ronald E. McNair Discovery Learning Academy who told ABC News about deftly disarming Hill with a combination of prayer and simple human connection.

“He said that no one loved him, and I told him that I loved him and that it was going to be OK, that we were going to get out safely,” she told the network Tuesday, hours after police had taken the 20-year-old suspect into custody following the afternoon incident outside of Atlanta.

True to Tuff’s words, no one was injured, even though authorities say Hill fired several shots at approaching police, who then returned fire.

A much, much better outcome than would have most definitely occurred if he came across someone in the school packing and trigger-happy, one would think.

245 Dr. Matt  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:06:50pm

re: #223 triple

I think if CJ wants civility he should start with how he has treated mr. snowden.

By proxy victimhood. Amusing.

246 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:07:14pm

re: #241 triple

The NSA has as of today released more government secrets than Edward, but I don’t see you complaining.

WTF does that mean?

247 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:07:19pm

re: #241 triple

The NSA has as of today released more government secrets than Edward, but I don’t see you complaining.

Oh, you you’ve seen exactly what he gave to the Chinese and the Russians? Do tell!

248 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:08:00pm

re: #199 triple

lol. You try growing up catholic.. while listening to rush on your way to work.. after 9/11 happened just when you were starting to get interested in politics.

It took my brother dragging me to an ows rally to firmly plant me on the liberal side of things, but I can actually trace it back to when I decided god wasn’t real, and then I had a bunch of friends.. who were gay.. and I decided republican politics weren’t helping people like me.

oh good freakin’ grief…
Try growing up Catholic (complete with Catholic school and Mass EVERY freakin morning of the week) in the 50s and 60s, listen to all of the incessant over the top fearmongering about the horrors of and end of America as we know because of a possible Catholic US President and then watch that President assassinated, and THEN go through the Vietnam War while in high school and college and watch your friends get tossed into that meat grinder of a police action, followed by Nixon’s greatest hits.

Really…your professed political innocence is quite delightful.

249 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:08:05pm

re: #246 Justanotherhuman

WTF does that mean?

ARGLE BARGLE!

250 Dr. Matt  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:09:04pm

re: #199 triple

but I can actually trace it back to when I decided god wasn’t real, and then I had a bunch of friends.. who were gay.. and I decided republican politics weren’t helping people like me. (note: not gay, but gay friendly!)

You forgot to mention that your best friend is black.

251 A Mom Anon  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:09:30pm

re: #243 Decatur Deb

I fixeded it.

252 Lidane  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:09:51pm
253 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:10:06pm

Fun fact: When you steal classified information, and you publish it, its still classified.

254 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:10:30pm

re: #231 KernelPanic

I’ll be very happy to stop covering these angles to the story as soon as some sanity starts to take over and the exaggerations and fear-mongering stop.

It can’t go on forever like this. (He said hopefully.)

255 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:10:30pm

re: #231 KernelPanic

I swear by FSM’s noodly appendage that I will not flounce nor unsubscribe nor stop hitting this site often. The freaky thing is that I now understand what it feels like as an ‘invested’ community member who sees the site/community moving in a different direction. Made me realize that I felt sorta selfish/possessive about how LGF covered the world.

I see a continuation of the same direction, in terms of watching out for the shenanigans of self-appointed security experts and wacko libertarians.

Is the different direction you see in the same area?

256 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:10:31pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh good freakin’ grief…
Try growing up Catholic (complete with Catholic school and Mass EVERY freakin morning of the week) in the 50s and 60s, listen to all of the incessant over the top fearmongering about the horrors of and end of America as we know because of a possible Catholic US President and then watch that President assassinated, and THEN go through the Vietnam War while in high school and college and watch your friends get tossed into that meat grinder of a police action, followed by Nixon’s greatest hits.

Really…your professed political innocence is quite delightful.

great. Glad you enjoyed it.

I was 15 when 9/11 happened. My older brother joined the army on 9/01.

I was a little rah rah america back then.

257 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:10:38pm

re: #251 A Mom Anon

I fixeded it.

Still 404 here.

258 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:10:42pm

re: #252 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Embarrassment requires a sense of shame. Bryan has none.

259 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:11:08pm

re: #223 triple

I think if CJ wants civility he should start with how he has treated mr. snowden.

Charles treated him just fine. Snowden is a lying piece of shit that stole sensitive U.S. intel documentation for no other reason than to shop it off to the highest bidder. He is scum and deserves to be treated as such.

260 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:12:14pm

Google Helpouts lets you play expert, charge people for your services

Are your friends always asking you for help fixing their air conditioners? Do people marvel at your pancakes? Maybe you’re a needlework ninja. Whatever your area of expertise, Google is launching a video chat service that, for a price, matches people with questions and “experts” with answers.
Called “Google Helpouts,” the still-to-launch service is free to join. People who sign up as “helpers” enter their skills and qualifications, and can even create an introductory video pitch to sell you on their bona fides, but it doesn’t look like anyone at Google is actually verifying whether the helpers are indeed experts.

261 A Mom Anon  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:12:26pm

re: #257 Decatur Deb

Worked for me. Refresh perhaps?

262 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:13:01pm

re: #259 Bubblehead II

Charles treated him just fine. Snowden is a lying piece of shit that stole sensitive U.S. intel documentation for no other reason than to shop it off to the highest bidder. He is scum and deserves to be treated as such.

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

263 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:13:08pm

re: #241 triple

The NSA has as of today released more government secrets than Edward, but I don’t see you complaining.

Well, declassifying and releasing documents under their purview is part of the NSA’s job description.

264 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:13:53pm

re: #262 triple

Your thoughts on Glenn’s outright lies and exaggerations?

265 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:14:19pm

re: #262 triple

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

What makes him an American hero?

266 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:15:09pm

re: #262 triple

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

Youtube Video

267 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:15:22pm

re: #265 wrenchwench

What makes him an American hero?

Full of bologna and accompanied by a ham?

268 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:15:45pm

re: #262 triple

well I do understand that the cape is optional….. //

269 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:15:50pm

re: #261 A Mom Anon

Worked for me. Refresh perhaps?

Worked. Shoo-in for Employee of the Month.

270 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:16:17pm

Just GAZEing from here on out, I think. We have reached peak brogressive.

271 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:17:29pm

I cannot believe that there are people out there who actually think Snowjob is educated enough, experienced enough, or ethical enough to actually make the kind of decision he did, to steal state secrets. Of course, we know he was prodded to that decision as a result of his connections with Poitras and Greenwald whose own politics meshed with his. Libertarians are quite good at promoting their “social” beliefs while hiding their economic and political ones from the public until late in their games.

272 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:18:30pm

re: #267 Feline Fearless Leader

Full of bologna and accompanied by a ham?

Couple of slices of Greenwald…. couple of slices of Snowden…

273 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:18:32pm

re: #267 Feline Fearless Leader

Full of bologna and accompanied by a ham?

In post-Soviet Russia, the hero is in the pickle!

274 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:19:28pm

re: #265 wrenchwench

What makes him an American hero?

To get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors”..

Note it doesn’t say “contribution to the american government”, or “the current administration”.. it says the United States.

I believe Snowden, while pissing off the current administration, and the NSA, has done the United States, and it’s people, a huge favor. He spoke up, he stood up on the bus, and he did something he wasn’t supposed to. If that’s not american, I don’t know what is.

275 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:19:35pm

re: #270 erik_t

Just GAZEing from here on out, I think. We have reached peak brogressive.

With the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.

276 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:20:23pm

re: #274 triple

To get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors”..

Note it doesn’t say “contribution to the american government”, or “the current administration”.. it says the United States.

I believe Snowden, while pissing off the current administration, and the NSA, has done the United States, and it’s people, a huge favor.

You should bag that up and sell it as fertilizer.

277 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:21:06pm

re: #274 triple

I believe Snowden, while pissing off the current administration, and the NSA, has done the United States, and it’s people, a huge favor.

I think this is an indication of your massive naivety, and a lack of appreciation of the need for a security apparatus in any country.

278 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:21:19pm

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

279 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:21:20pm

re: #256 triple

great. Glad you enjoyed it.

I was 15 when 9/11 happened. My older brother joined the army on 9/01.

I was a little rah rah america back then.

well good for you and your brother!
My youngest son is retired career AirForce (20+ years, retired as a TSgt)
My father was AirForce and I was born on an Army base.
My father-in-law was Navy, as was my brother-in-law.
My uncles were Army.
One of my great-uncles is buried in Flanders Field.
One of my ancestors was a Civil War general.
My husband’s ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War and every war after that.

Why is family military cred so important that it needs to be raised to make some sort of point in an argument?

280 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:21:55pm

A lot of people hate Hitler.
HERO!

281 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:21:58pm

re: #262 triple

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

This is too funny. I didn’t know American heroes improperly accessed classified information and then went off to China and Russia to have their laptops vacuumed up.

282 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:22:05pm

Sorry, sorry, NOW we’ve reached peak brogressive.

283 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:22:12pm

re: #278 triple

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

Now you’re in the territory of ‘emo’.

284 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:22:24pm

re: #274 triple

I think you’re full of crap and so is the rest of the “libertarian community” (a real contradiction in terms, that phrase).

285 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:22:47pm

re: #279 Backwoods_Sleuth

well good for you and your brother!
My youngest son is retired career AirForce (20+ years, retired as a TSgt)
My father was AirForce and I was born on an Army base.
My father-in-law was Navy, as was my brother-in-law.
My uncles were Army.
One of my great-uncles is buried in Flanders Field.
One of my ancestors was a Civil War general.
My husband’s ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War and every war after that.

Why is family military cred so important that it needs to be raised to make some sort of point in an argument?

Not cred, simply a statement of where my head was at back then?

I didn’t know I needed “cred” to have opinions on the internet.

286 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:22:59pm

Yep, I Godwined.. Sue me.

287 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:23:13pm

re: #284 Justanotherhuman

I think you’re full of crap and so is the rest of the “libertarian community” (a real contradiction in terms, that phrase).

So right you are!

288 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:23:17pm

re: #278 triple

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

Hate? No. Disdain and a touch of pity is much more accurate.

289 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:23:38pm

re: #274 triple

To get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors”..

Snowden’s going to be too busy accepting the Nobel Peace Prize…

290 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:24:25pm

re: #282 erik_t

Sorry, sorry, NOW we’ve reached peak brogressive.

I’m pretty sure Peak Brogressive is a myth. There’s always another plateau.

291 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:24:29pm

re: #289 Backwoods_Sleuth

Snowden’s going to be too busy accepting the Nobel Peace Prize…

Miranda’s getting the Pulitzer.

292 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:24:49pm

re: #278 triple

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

So Manson is also a hero because he’s hated by everyone who knows who he is?

Congratulations. You have achieved levels of reasoning fail that were formerly the exclusive domain of RW so-con bigots.

293 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:24:51pm

re: #283 wrenchwench

Now you’re in the territory of ‘emo’.

Well, it’s more apt than you might think.

Dark knight, batman has this massive cell phone spying operation. He NEEDS it to find the joker, and he does.

Morgan Freeman wants nothing to do with it, but says he’ll do it to help stop the threat.

Batman says okay, and after he catches the joker - does he use the massive cellphone database to fight more crime in gotham? No. He destroys the machine. Because it’s the right thing to do.

So yeah, he’s basically batman.

I stand by it.

294 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:25:08pm

re: #283 wrenchwench

Now you’re in the territory of ‘emo’.

way passed that….now it’s the Land Beyond Emo…

295 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:25:10pm

re: #291 Decatur Deb

Miranda’s getting the Pulitzer.

That means Glenn must be up for an Oscar or a daytime Emmy at the least

296 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:25:20pm

re: #278 triple

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

Yeah, the George Clooney version.

297 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:25:54pm

re: #296 Kragar

Yeah, the George Clooney version.

With nipples!

298 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:25:59pm

Trolling devolves into Cosplay.

299 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:05pm

re: #293 triple

You base life on a fucking comic strip? Cheeeezus.

300 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:12pm

re: #290 Charles Johnson

I’m pretty sure Peak Brogressive is a myth. There’s always another plateau.

Just like peak wing nut. Wrongness is fractal. There are always entirely new vistas of stupid that are opened up as one marches off into the stupid zone.

301 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:22pm
302 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:23pm
303 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:32pm

re: #298 Decatur Deb

with GG as Tuxedo Mask

304 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:44pm

re: #293 triple

Well, it’s more apt than you might think.

Dark knight, batman has this massive cell phone spying operation. He NEEDS it to find the joker, and he does.

Morgan Freeman wants nothing to do with it, but says he’ll do it to help stop the threat.

Batman says okay, and after he catches the joker - does he use the massive cellphone database to fight more crime in gotham? No. He destroys the machine. Because it’s the right thing to do.

So yeah, he’s basically batman.

I stand by it.

OK, you’re one of those people who has difficulty distinguishing fantasy and reality.

I think I’ll go fix a bike, because I can fix those.

305 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:51pm

re: #299 Justanotherhuman

You base life on a fucking comic strip? Cheeeezus.

Well, why not?

I’d like to think of myself as Dr. Manhattan.

306 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:51pm

re: #299 Justanotherhuman

You base life on a fucking comic strip? Cheeeezus.

Be fair. It sound like a movie script.

307 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:26:56pm

re: #302 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

JUST LIKE HITLER DID!

308 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:27:00pm

re: #294 Backwoods_Sleuth

way passed that….now it’s the Land Beyond Emo…

I stand corrected…he’s permanently entrenched at ComicCon Land…

309 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:27:28pm

re: #274 triple

To get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors”..

Note it doesn’t say “contribution to the american government”, or “the current administration”.. it says the United States.

I believe Snowden, while pissing off the current administration, and the NSA, has done the United States, and it’s people, a huge favor.

(◑_◑)

310 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:27:43pm

re: #308 Backwoods_Sleuth

probably straight from the Ender’s Game table with OSC

311 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:27:54pm
312 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:28:02pm

re: #305 Dr Lizardo

She sounds more like she’s 13…

313 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:28:08pm

re: #301 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Red alert! This is not a drill! Warm up the typewriters!

314 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:28:12pm

re: #253 Kragar

Fun fact: When you steal classified information, and you publish it, its still classified.

I disagree about the fun part.

315 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:28:24pm

re: #262 triple

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

Snowden lost the distinction of “american hero” the moment he illegally gained access to documents that he had absolutely no right to obtain, nor view. The fact that when confronted with this he decided to hop to nations that would be at best considered adversarial to the United States didn’t help out his case at all.

There’s a fairly well-defined chain of actions involved in whistle-blowing when it concerns classified national security documents. Handing over said documents to an attention-starved blogger is pretty damned far down the list.
Turning to a foreign government (especially China and Russia)? That’s just freaking insane.

Hint: Step ONE: Contact an attorney, preferrably one who is well-versed in handling of whistleblowing and classified matters. They do exist.
Step Two: Listen to that attorney.

316 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:28:35pm

re: #305 Dr Lizardo

Well, why not?

I’d like to think of myself as Dr. Manhattan.

I’m Catwoman…but not with my current body…

318 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:28:43pm

re: #262 triple

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

Ummmmm, no, the Government hasn’t made me believe anything. Snowdens actions on the other hand have. He is a lying sack of shit who stole Government Intel documents. He is a lier and a thief. He is not a hero, but rather a zero.

319 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:29:02pm

If nothing else, this is considerably more entertaining than the recent RW trolls. Better imagination, for sure.

320 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:29:35pm

HOW MUCH MORE BRO CAN YOU GO?

321 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:29:53pm

re: #231 KernelPanic

I swear by FSM’s noodly appendage that I will not flounce nor unsubscribe nor stop hitting this site often. The freaky thing is that I now understand what it feels like as an ‘invested’ community member who sees the site/community moving in a different direction. Made me realize that I felt sorta selfish/possessive about how LGF covered the world.

IMO it’s perfectly normal to become invested in a community you’ve become a part of. When you start stalking a community’s founder/members after having left it, that’s when it becomes a pathology. Ditto for the people who lurk in the shadows silently collecting grievances—and rarely if ever making civil contributions to discussions—then occasionally pop out with their hair on fire screeching that CJ/LGF members answer for some perceived injustice. It’s freaking strange.

I don’t agree with everything I read here, not by a long shot, but it’s not the end of the world. I mean, FFS, there are 1001 other things I can find to do if LGF is annoying me at any given moment, and if I only want to read my own opinions I can simply open my own blog and write whatever the hell I think.

As for change, it’s constantly happening. Not only might CJ change his opinion on things, but the mix of active commenters is constantly in flux. If LGF ever got to the point where I really couldn’t stand it anymore, I’d just walk away. It wouldn’t be the first forum I’ve abandoned.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on. *shrug*

Back to the code mines now…. later, lizards.

322 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:29:53pm

xkcd.com

323 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:29:55pm

re: #313 Gus

Red alert! This is not a drill! Warm up the typewriters!

lol

324 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:29:57pm

re: #293 triple

Well, it’s more apt than you might think.

Dark knight, batman has this massive cell phone spying operation. He NEEDS it to find the joker, and he does.

Morgan Freeman wants nothing to do with it, but says he’ll do it to help stop the threat.

Batman says okay, and after he catches the joker - does he use the massive cellphone database to fight more crime in gotham? No. He destroys the machine. Because it’s the right thing to do.

So yeah, he’s basically batman.

I stand by it.

What you’re standing by is public relations blather.

You need more specifics that pass critical scrutiny and not “just because I said so.”

A lot of what Greenwald said does not pass the sniff test; a lot of his claims are technologically illiterate—-they made no sense.

You can demonstrate that you know what you’re talking about by pointing to some specifics and saying why it’s good—-and so that we know that your claims are technologically competent and accurate.

Neither Snowden nor Greenwald do ANYONE one any good if they make claims that are technologically suspect.

325 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:30:06pm

If Snowden is Batman does that make Greenwald Robin?

326 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:30:11pm

re: #303 piratedan

with GG as Tuxedo Mask

I’m gobsmacked for the day—gonna walk the dog. He thinks he’s Scooby-Doo.

327 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:30:36pm

re: #315 RadicalModerate

Hint: Step ONE: Contact an attorney, preferrably one who is well-versed in handling of whistleblowing and classified matters (and NOT A Greenwald-type layer). They do exist.
Step Two: Listen to that attorney.

FIFY

328 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:30:37pm

re: #314 abolitionist

I disagree about the fun part.

Every fact is fun! FACT!

See, I put the word fact in uppercase with a exclamation mark at the end, making it true.

329 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:31:21pm

It’s really ironic the NSA is complaining about people reading it’s info.

How does it feel, NSA?

330 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:31:47pm

re: #293 triple

Well, it’s more apt than you might think.

Dark knight, batman has this massive cell phone spying operation. He NEEDS it to find the joker, and he does.

Morgan Freeman wants nothing to do with it, but says he’ll do it to help stop the threat.

Batman says okay, and after he catches the joker - does he use the massive cellphone database to fight more crime in gotham? No. He destroys the machine. Because it’s the right thing to do.

So yeah, he’s basically batman.

I stand by it.

So you believe that the threat is over, the US has no enemies, and the NSA can be dismantled because it no longer serves a purpose?

Or is it simply that saying you now have principles means you feel you’ve changed from the naive little boy you were on 9/11? Let you in on a secret: I was 16 in 2001. Both my parents were active Navy and I’ve since had cousins who signed up to fight “over there.” The difference between who I was and who I am is that I grew the fuck up.

331 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:32:05pm

re: #329 triple

It’s really ironic the NSA is complaining about people reading it’s info.

How does it feel, NSA?

More PR blather.

Substance, not style, please.

332 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:32:11pm

Onward to the “government can’t be allowed to exist” phase. It’s usually the final circle of lolbertarianism, in my experience.

333 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:32:22pm

Libertarians, yeesh.

334 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:32:53pm

re: #324 gwangung

What you’re standing by is public relations blather.

You need more specifics that pass critical scrutiny and not “just because I said so.”

A lot of what Greenwald said does not pass the sniff test; a lot of his claims are technologically illiterate—-they made no sense.

You can demonstrate that you know what you’re talking about by pointing to some specifics and saying why it’s good—-and so that we know that your claims are technologically competent and accurate.

Neither Snowden nor Greenwald do ANYONE one any good if they make claims that are technologically suspect.

i.e. you can’t just say that there’s a spy at the airport and then leave by train without providing any assistance

335 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:32:55pm

re: #315 RadicalModerate

So you’re upset snowden illegally gained access to NSA documents, but you’re not upset the NSA has illegally been gaining access to the communications of millions of americans..

Priorities. Seriously.

I don’t give a shit about the government. I give a shit about it’s people.

336 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:32:58pm

re: #289 Backwoods_Sleuth

Snowden’s going to be too busy accepting the Nobel Peace Prize…

I thought that was the other great American H zero. You know the one that’s going to be doing 35 years for the same sort of shit.

337 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:33:15pm

re: #329 triple

It’s really ironic the NSA is complaining about people reading it’s info.

How does it feel, NSA?

Can you prove that the NSA read your emails, listened in on your phone calls, or in any way violated your privacy?

338 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:33:21pm

re: #329 triple

It’s really ironic the NSA is complaining about people reading it’s info.

How does it feel, NSA?

downdinged for egregious apostrophe abuse.

339 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:33:29pm

re: #303 piratedan

with GG as Tuxedo Mask

What? He gets kidnapped, brainwashed, or apparently blown up toward the middle of every season after the first one?

340 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:33:57pm

re: #335 triple

So you’re upset snowden illegally gained access to NSA documents, but you’re not upset the NSA has illegally been gaining access to the communications of millions of americans..

Priorities. Seriously.

I don’t give a shit about the government. I give a shit about it’s people.

[citation needed]

You’re bad at this.

341 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:34:10pm

re: #330 Targetpractice

So you believe that the threat is over, the US has no enemies, and the NSA can be dismantled because it no longer serves a purpose?

The NSA: Because the terrorists might go on facebook, someday.

Seriously why do they need those records? Are they checking up on al qaeda’s wall?

342 GlutenFreeJesus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:34:24pm

re: #29 triple

Or you can’t link me because there isn’t a link to post..

Here.

littlegreenfootballs.com

343 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:34:45pm

re: #336 Bubblehead II

I thought that was the other great American Hzero. You know the that’s going to be doing 35 years for the same sort of shit.

I’m sure they will be willing to share…

344 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:34:59pm

re: #335 triple

So you’re upset snowden illegally gained access to NSA documents, but you’re not upset the NSA has illegally been gaining access to the communications of millions of americans..

Priorities. Seriously.

I don’t give a shit about the government. I give a shit about it’s people.

Please show one incident where the government has known about a case of illegal access where the violator has not faced punishment?

And no, you can’t pick Snowden.

345 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:35:23pm

re: #340 erik_t

[citation needed]

You’re bad at this.

Illegal in the sense of “blatantly unconstitutional”.. totally legal in the sense of “zomg terrorists make a law that protects us”.

346 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:35:26pm

re: #339 RadicalModerate

well I was working on Miranda as Sailor Moon, benignly saving his patootie at great personal risk….

347 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:35:34pm

He’s Batman? BATMAN??

Excuse me, while I…

348 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:36:11pm

re: #345 triple

Illegal in the sense of “blatantly unconstitutional”.. totally legal in the sense of “zomg terrorists make a law that protects us”.

Supreme Court apparently disagrees.

This really is like a right-wing troll, absolutely certain that any law with which they disagree must be unconstitutional, because magnets or something.

349 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:36:46pm

re: #335 triple

So you’re upset snowden illegally gained access to NSA documents, but you’re not upset the NSA has illegally been gaining access to the communications of millions of americans..

Priorities. Seriously.

I don’t give a shit about the government. I give a shit about it’s people.

Fact #1: What Snowden did is illegal.

Fact #2: In all of the reporting since Snowden’s leaks, evidence of illegal government activity has been conspicuously absent.

350 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:36:49pm

re: #293 triple

So yeah, he’s basically batman.

You do understand that Batman is a fictitious character, don’t you?

351 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:36:50pm

re: #341 triple

The NSA: Because the terrorists might go on facebook, someday.

Seriously why do they need those records? Are they checking up on al qaeda’s wall?

Do you believe that Al-Q is the only game in town?

352 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:37:03pm

re: #345 triple

Illegal in the sense of “blatantly unconstitutional”.. totally legal in the sense of “zomg terrorists make a law that protects us”.

Time to go cook dinner. Everyone else have fun as this performance of Kabuki Soundbite Theatre proceeds into the next act.

353 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:37:51pm

re: #313 Gus

Red alert! This is not a drill! Warm up the typewriters!

I’m curious to see if they are really going to do something this time or if they got stonewalled by the usual suspects…Russia and China.

354 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:38:00pm

Believe it or not,
but Snowden’s a thief.
He should be locked in a jail cell.
Flying away to a foreign state,
How could this be?
Believe it or not, he’s still free.

355 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:38:27pm

re: #348 erik_t

Supreme Court apparently disagrees.

This really is like a right-wing troll, absolutely certain that any law with which they disagree must be unconstitutional, because magnets or something.

The fourth is already gone, and the first is on it’s way out with the detention of miranda.. yes I’m aware it happened in the UK - I’m also aware the white house basically orchestrated it. Press intimidation, does that sound like america to you?

Let me ask you this - how screwed up is it that a company like Lavabit has to fight an order to let the NSA spy on it’s customers, in court.. in secret? They can’t defend themselves in public because they’re not allowed to tell us what they’re defending. If they do, he goes to jail. In fact, he gets threatened with jail for shutting his own company down rather than spy on his customers.

It’s like the rule of law doesn’t mean shit anymore.

356 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:38:46pm

The FISC halted the program because the NSA REPORTED IT TO THEM.

357 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:39:16pm

re: #349 EPR-radar

Fact #1: What Snowden did is illegal.

Fact #2: In all of the reporting since Snowden’s leaks, evidence of illegal government activity has been conspicuously absent.

And more to the point, even GG admits (in paragraph 5) that it requires a warrant for the NSA to do what his headlines scream they do without warrants. IOW, even GG isn’t REALLY claiming that the NSA does all the things ‘triple’ claims ‘we now know’ the NSA does.

358 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:39:59pm

re: #355 triple

The fourth is already gone, and the first is on it’s way out with the detention of miranda..

Let me ask you this - how screwed up is it that a company like Lavabit has to fight an order to let the NSA spy on it’s customers, in court.. in secret? They can’t defend themselves in public because they’re not allowed to tell us what they’re defending. If they do, he goes to jail. In fact, he gets threatened with jail for shutting his own company down rather than spy on his customers.

It’s like the rule of law doesn’t mean shit anymore.

Please tell me how the first amendment of the US constitution relates to how the UK authorities act?

359 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:40:03pm

re: #355 triple

The fourth is already gone, and the first is on it’s way out with the detention of miranda..

Let me ask you this - how screwed up is it that a company like Lavabit has to fight an order to let the NSA spy on it’s customers, in court.. in secret? They can’t defend themselves in public because they’re not allowed to tell us what they’re defending. If they do, he goes to jail. In fact, he gets threatened with jail for shutting his own company down rather than spy on his customers.

It’s like the rule of law doesn’t mean shit anymore.

Its so bad you can’t even illegally obtain classified information and transport it across foreign countries without getting hassled by THE MAN!

360 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:40:28pm

re: #355 triple

The fourth is already gone, and the first is on it’s way out with the detention of miranda.. yes I’m aware it happened in the UK - I’m also aware the white house basically orchestrated it. Press intimidation, does that sound like america to you?

ISSSA CONSPIRACEEEEE, JUST LIKE THEM MOON LANDIN’S

361 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:40:44pm

re: #355 triple

The fourth is already gone, and the first is on it’s way out with the detention of miranda..

Let me ask you this - how screwed up is it that a company like Lavabit has to fight an order to let the NSA spy on it’s customers, in court.. in secret? They can’t defend themselves in public because they’re not allowed to tell us what they’re defending. If they do, he goes to jail. In fact, he gets threatened with jail for shutting his own company down rather than spy on his customers.

It’s like the rule of law doesn’t mean shit anymore.

Okay, seriously? Illegally carrying stolen classified documents is protected by the 1st Amendment?

And like I said, you’re a naive little child, listening to people scream “The timing!” about Lavabit while Charles has pointed out again and again that Lavabit was in deep shit already with the Feds about investigations into child pornography. Quick, tell me the government planted it months in advance so they could “harass” Lavabit just at the time that Snowden needed it.

362 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:40:47pm
363 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:41:07pm

re: #355 triple

You sound like a fucking 9-11 truther.

364 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:41:32pm

re: #363 Pavlovian Hive Mind

You sound like a fucking 9-11 truther.

“It can’t be a coincidence!!!”

365 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:41:39pm

re: #356 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The FISC halted the program because the NSA REPORTED IT TO THEM.

Is that the same FISA court that approves absolutely everything with a rubber stamp?

366 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:41:50pm

re: #359 Kragar

Its so bad you can’t even illegally obtain classified information and transport it across foreign countries without getting hassled by THE MAN!

It’s not illegal to report classified information. It’s not illegal to have classified information on hard drives. Nothing greenwald is doing is illegal, or else the entire NYT would be in handcuffs.

367 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:43:00pm
368 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:43:10pm

re: #363 Pavlovian Hive Mind

You sound like a fucking 9-11 truther.

I’m quite confident 9-11 was the result of two airplanes being flown by terrorists into buildings.. thanks.

369 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:43:15pm

re: #355 triple

Someone should let you know that life is much more amazing when you let Chicken Little go free.

370 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:43:16pm

And I officially give up.

i.chzbgr.com

371 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:43:22pm

re: #346 piratedan

well I was working on Miranda as Sailor Moon, benignly saving his patootie at great personal risk….

But that would mean that Chibi-Usa would be played by…?
wait. don’t answer that. There are certain images I would prefer not to have to spend the better part of an afternoon trying to purge from my memory.

372 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:44:07pm

re: #359 Kragar

Its so bad you can’t even illegally obtain classified information and transport it across foreign countries without getting hassled by THE MAN!

All property is theft, therefore theft is property, so if I steal it, it’s mine!

Seriously, though - the argument that Miranda should be allowed to carry illegally-obtained classified information to which he had no right, because it was already in his possession reminds me of the argument Snowden tried to make that, since he had been offered asylum by several countries - none of which he happened to be IN - he must be allowed to pass freely through other countries that had NOT granted him asylum to reach them.

Do these people really think their actions have no consequences? Or that the sun shines out their asses?

373 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:44:26pm

re: #366 triple

It’s not illegal to report classified information. It’s not illegal to have classified information on hard drives. Nothing greenwald is doing is illegal, or else the entire NYT would be in handcuffs.

It’s not illegal to be in possession of stolen property?

374 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:44:32pm

re: #366 triple

It’s not illegal to report classified information. It’s not illegal to have classified information on hard drives. Nothing greenwald is doing is illegal, or else the entire NYT would be in handcuffs.

It is illegal to possess and report classified information in the United Kingdom, you nincompoop.

375 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:44:38pm

re: #360 erik_t

ISSSA CONSPIRACEEEEE, JUST LIKE THEM MOON LANDIN’S

triple obviously has a mole in the WH and knows all of this for a FACT!!11!!

376 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:44:42pm

re: #347 CuriousLurker

He’s Batman? BATMAN??

Excuse me, While I…

Eh, it’s easy to make Batman be whatever you want him to be…

Image: batman-alignment-chart.jpg

377 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:06pm

re: #368 triple

I’m quite confident 9-11 was the result of two airplanes being flown by terrorists into buildings.. thanks.

I think Rick Perry might agree with that assessment.

Nah, even he knew there was at least a third one.

378 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:11pm

re: #371 RadicalModerate

I know I know, I stared into the Cosplay Abyss and a sparkly star wand avatar gazed back at me…..

379 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:16pm

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

380 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:18pm

re: #362 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And they’re great on the grill.

381 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:20pm

re: #362 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

WANT!!!
Take my money NOW!!!!!

382 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:50pm

re: #379 triple

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

In the US. Not in the UK.
Dumbass.

383 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:45:56pm

re: #355 triple

The fourth is already gone, and the first is on it’s way out with the detention of miranda.. yes I’m aware it happened in the UK - I’m also aware the white house basically orchestrated it. Press intimidation, does that sound like america to you?

Let me ask you this - how screwed up is it that a company like Lavabit has to fight an order to let the NSA spy on it’s customers, in court.. in secret? They can’t defend themselves in public because they’re not allowed to tell us what they’re defending. If they do, he goes to jail. In fact, he gets threatened with jail for shutting his own company down rather than spy on his customers.

It’s like the rule of law doesn’t mean shit anymore.

(◑_◑)

384 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:00pm

re: #366 triple

It’s not illegal to report classified information. It’s not illegal to have classified information on hard drives. Nothing greenwald is doing is illegal, or else the entire NYT would be in handcuffs.

What the hell are you smoking? Its completely illegal.

385 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:02pm

re: #377 wrenchwench

I think Rick Perry might agree with that assessment.

Nah, even he knew there was at least a third one.

There were 4, but whatever, right? I’ll be sure to spell-check next time, too.

386 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:19pm

re: #379 triple

yeah, like Snowden was when he signed his oath……

387 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:31pm

re: #379 triple

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

Not in Britain. That shit’s illegal per the Official Secrets Act.

388 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:34pm

re: #379 triple

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

No, dumbshit, it is not.

389 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:49pm

That’s right folks. The 1st Amendment is out because of the UK detaining Miranda, a Brazilian national transiting through Heathrow.

390 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:46:50pm

re: #385 triple

What does ‘triple’ mean as a nic?

391 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:47:08pm

re: #382 Pavlovian Hive Mind

In the US. Not in the UK.
Dumbass.

I stand corrected.
Derp.

392 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:47:14pm

re: #379 triple

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

You mean, like Snowden or Manning was?

BTW, do you think that having classified information in your possession makes it yours?

393 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:47:26pm

re: #386 piratedan

yeah, like Snowden was when he signed his oath……

But but but Presidential Medal of Freedumb! Hero! Or something! Loud noises!

394 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:47:30pm

Derpbros.

395 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:47:57pm

re: #368 triple

I’m quite confident 9-11 was the result of two airplanes being flown by terrorists into buildings.. thanks.

You’ve mis-counted.

396 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:48:01pm

re: #388 erik_t

No, dumbshit, it is not.

Maybe you can tell me what terrorist activities miranda was involved in while you’re all up in british legal wikipedia.

397 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:49:01pm

re: #395 abolitionist

You’ve mis-counted.

Yep and my point went right over his head.

398 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:49:01pm

re: #392 GeneJockey

You mean, like Snowden or Manning was?

BTW, do you think that having classified information in your possession makes it yours?

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

PRISM is out and the NSA can’t do a fucking thing about it.

Oops, just put classified info on LGF. Better confiscate the website!

399 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:49:37pm

Oh god another ‘information is free’ jackass.

400 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:49:41pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

Well, yes. You stupid fucking simpleton.

401 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:49:42pm

re: #393 erik_t

But but but Presidential Medal of Freedumb! Hero! Or something! Loud noises!

I was afraid to stop him until he got to the part where the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor….

402 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:50:31pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

PRISM is out and the NSA can’t do a fucking thing about it.

Oops, just put classified info on LGF. Better confiscate the website!

That is not a substantive response, given that we’re dealing with US, British and Brazillian jurisdictions, since you’re relying on US jurisprudence.

Try again?

403 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:50:57pm

re: #396 triple

Maybe you can tell me what terrorist activities miranda was involved in while you’re all up in british legal wikipedia.

Transporting classified material he was not authorized to possess.

Not all terrorist activity is violent. Terrorists gather information as well.

404 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:51:14pm

re: #374 erik_t

It is illegal to possess and report classified information in the United Kingdom, you nincompoop.

Does it matter who classified it? That might be considered a grey area.

405 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:51:47pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

PRISM is out and the NSA can’t do a fucking thing about it.

Oops, just put classified info on LGF. Better confiscate the website!

For somebody who says he gets his news from places other than LGF, you seem absolutely clueless as to how US jurisprudence does not apply to foreign nationals in foreign airports.

406 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:51:59pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

PRISM is out and the NSA can’t do a fucking thing about it.

Oops, just put classified info on LGF. Better confiscate the website!

It’s a ‘thing’ you can ‘possess’, or if couldn’t be taken away from you. It’s a ‘thing’ you can ‘steal’, which means that someone owns it. And, BTW, in my business it definitely IS something you can ‘own’ and something you can ‘steal’.

BTW, if Miranda didn’t ‘own’ the information, what is the issue with it being taken from him?

407 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:52:37pm

re: #403 Kragar

Transporting classified material he was not authorized to possess.

Not all terrorist activity is violent. Terrorists gather information as well.

So you agree miranda (and the guardian newspaper, by association) is a terrorist organization..?

Not everything the government doesn’t like is terrorism, sorry.

Boston was terrorism.

New York and Washington were terrorism.

London was terrorism.

Miranda walking through Heathrow with a usb drive full of stuff that the guardian has been reporting on for the past 3 months is not terrorism.

408 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:52:41pm

re: #403 Kragar

Transporting classified material he was not authorized to possess.

Not all terrorist activity is violent. Terrorists gather information as well.

I’ll note that intent may not be relevant here; if exposing classified material would lead to harm of individuals, there’s a degree of culpability here.

409 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:52:42pm

I’m losing track of the dumbass statements.

410 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:53:14pm

re: #394 Gus

Derpbros.

Emoderps.

411 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:53:31pm

re: #406 GeneJockey

It’s a ‘thing’ you can ‘possess’, or if couldn’t be taken away from you. It’s a ‘thing’ you can ‘steal’, which means that someone owns it. And, BTW, in my business it definitely IS something you can ‘own’ and something you can ‘steal’.

BTW, if Miranda didn’t ‘own’ the information, what is the issue with it being taken from him?

I think the real issue is they stole ~3k worth of equip from him (basing on current value of video game consoles, usb drives, and macbooks.)

Not to mention the unlawful detention, which they’ll get owned in court for.

412 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:53:32pm

Gish Gallop

413 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:53:38pm

re: #407 triple

So you agree miranda (and the guardian newspaper, by association) is a terrorist organization..?

Not everything the government doesn’t like is terrorism, sorry.

Boston was terrorism.

New York and Washington were terrorism.

London was terrorism.

Miranda walking through Heathrow with a usb drive full of stuff that the guardian has been reporting on for the past 3 months is not terrorism.

Again, no substance, just PR blather.

414 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:54:47pm

re: #413 gwangung

Again, no substance, just PR blather.

You keep saying that, I do not think it means what you think it means.

415 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:54:59pm

re: #407 triple

Just because its been reported does not mean its magically unclassified.

416 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:55:19pm

If information is not property, then what stops the Brits from stripping the data off the thumb drive and then returning it? Or fragging his laptop’s HDD before returning it?

417 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:55:21pm

re: #414 triple

You keep saying that, I do not think it means what you think it means.

See, now that is irony.

418 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:55:34pm

re: #379 triple

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

You are sooooo effin’ wrong there.

Don’t tell me…
You got your Law degree from Liberty University, amirite?

419 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:55:45pm

re: #293 triple

Well, it’s more apt than you might think.

Dark knight, batman has this massive cell phone spying operation. He NEEDS it to find the joker, and he does.

Morgan Freeman wants nothing to do with it, but says he’ll do it to help stop the threat.

Batman says okay, and after he catches the joker - does he use the massive cellphone database to fight more crime in gotham? No. He destroys the machine. Because it’s the right thing to do.

So yeah, he’s basically batman.

I stand by it.

This is hilarious twice over.

First, as entertaining as Batman is as a comic character, viewed in a realistic focus he’s terrifying. A non-state actor implementing a parallel justice system with no oversight. Extra special funny because Batman may shut down the giant privacy-invading machine, but is still a guy who will go beat up lowlives for information (and occasionally kidnap an guy from a foreign country).

Second, the entire Batman premise is rooted in fictional shortcuts about the nature of crime, surveillance, and the moral authority of the individual actor. The conceit of Batman as hero-concept is that this individual has applied unlimited resources to creating a personal surveillance system and a massive personal armory, but that this isn’t terrifying because, as viewers/readers, we can see the inside of Batman’s head and understand his moral clarity. Batman is a purity fantasy—one incorruptible man is a dirty world—as much as a power fantasy. Emphasis on fantasy.

Edward Snowden is not a fictional construct. I have no idea what’s in his head, or his motives. Because I can’t see the corresponding thought bubbles, I have no reason to assume that his motives and his declared motives are identical. In fact, all I can do is make assessments based on his actions. And his actions don’t impress me as straightforward or acting out of conscience. He didn’t leak documents that showed wrongdoing; he and his representative have created narratives that don’t sync with the materials released; and rather than simply distribute information as proof, he’s made a bunch of claims he hasn’t backed up.

And because of his choice to flee the country with information in tow, I can’t even assume that his motives is whistle-blowing as opposed to espionage. Snowden fled directly to a nation which keeps getting caught probing and hacking US data; he then moved on to another country with the same issue. And why would I accept a naked assurance that his materials are secure? I don’t know the man. You don’t know the man. So why are you speaking as though your image of him is more than a mythos you’ve bought into?

And furthermore, intentions are not magic. Many, many, spies believe that they’re making the world a better place by their actions. Snowden could be a wholly altruistic actor and I’d still think he’s fucked up, because he’s blurred his own status as a whistleblower and conscientious objector. By fleeing the country, he’s opened himself to being marked a spy rather than a whistleblower. By telling rather than showing us what he’s taken, he’s suspect of being a liar or exaggerating for effect. By having a spokeperson who exaggerates, insults, and tosses out threat…and who has specifically made this story about Snowden, himself, and their “persecution”…he’s dulled the impact of anything that might be revealed.

Frankly, whether you’re liberal or conservative, you’re apparently not processing the gulf between what you strongly feel…and the narrative you’ve created to sync your feelings to the current situation…and what information is actually available.

420 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:55:57pm

re: #417 Kragar

See, now that is irony.

inconceivable!

421 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:56:35pm

Somehow, some dumb data mule in Heathrow is the FIRST TIME EVAR that law enforcement officers have confiscated private property in the context of an investigation.

Brogressives don’t really give a shit about the thousands and thousands of usually poor, usually black folks caught up in war-on-drugs dragnets, I guess.

422 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:57:59pm

re: #390 wrenchwench

What does ‘triple’ mean as a nic?

I’m thinking it’s a typo…should be “tipple”…

423 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:58:04pm

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

Manning got 35 years today, but he faced, at one time, the possibility of the death penalty.

Snowden’s responsibility (as he saw it) was to provide the US public with the information that they were being unlawfully spied on, and he did.

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

424 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:59:02pm

re: #414 triple

You keep saying that, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Well, obviously, since it’s becoming increasingly obvious you have no grasp of the legal issues involved. I have no idea about the technical issues since you’re so assidious in avoiding them.

I don’t necessarily believe you’re an idiot, but I do expect that you have a grasp of the issues involved, that you know the technical issues involved and that you don’t rely on overly simplistic, black and white binary thinking. You may even be correct, but I can’t tell—-there’s no substance to latch onto.

What you are uttering is most certainly PR blather. It has no use for legal rhetoric or technical understanding. Again, please…substance.

425 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:59:17pm

re: #423 triple

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

He is exactly under that responsibility. Do you know what the word “responsibility” means?

426 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 2:59:59pm

re: #419 The Ghost of a Flea

Lots of good points. I think it is also worth adding that it is very hard to hold to a narrative of Snowden the idealist in view of his postings on Ars Technica.

427 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:00:30pm

re: #423 triple

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

Manning got 35 years today, but he faced, at one time, the possibility of the death penalty.

Snowden’s responsibility (as he saw it) was to provide the US public with the information that they were being unlawfully spied on, and he did.

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

Yes, we’ve heard the whole bit before, about how Snowden had no choice but to flee because he could be jailed or *gasp!* executed, despite there not being an execution of a spy in decades. And do tell, do you believe that if you break the law for the “right reasons,” that you shouldn’t have to face any penalties?

428 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:00:49pm

re: #423 triple

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

Manning got 35 years today, but he faced, at one time, the possibility of the death penalty.

Snowden’s responsibility (as he saw it) was to provide the US public with the information that they were being unlawfully spied on, and he did.

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

You’re giving me a headache.

429 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:01:05pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

PRISM is out and the NSA can’t do a fucking thing about it.

Oops, just put classified info on LGF. Better confiscate the website!

so following the clashing lines of your logic contortions, classified information aside, copyrighted “intellectual property” is also free for the taking…good to know…
//

430 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:01:09pm

re: #423 triple

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

The principles of civil disobedience actually demands that he stays within the country to fight the injustice. Fleeing the country is the exact opposite of what he should have done.

431 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:01:10pm

re: #234 Kragar

SEND HIM TO DETROIT!

Youtube Video

432 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:01:42pm

re: #424 gwangung

Well, obviously, since it’s becoming increasingly obvious you have no grasp of the legal issues involved.

I think I do.

You’re looking at it like.. well he clearly violated the espionage act, etc.

I’m looking at it as - forget Snowden.

Lets just put it out there that the NSA has been spying on americans.

That’s illegal. That’s unconstitutional.

When you look at it from that light, Snowden has committed an illegal act to disclose an even larger illegal act by the government itself.

Do not be fooled into thinking the government is incapable of committing a crime. The constitution, as it stands, is the only true law in this nation. It’s the only one you should respect.

433 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:02:14pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

PRISM is out and the NSA can’t do a fucking thing about it.

Oops, just put classified info on LGF. Better confiscate the website!

Yes, information is a thing you own. It doesn’t matter if it is corporate data, Government data or personal information.

434 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:02:15pm

re: #423 triple

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

Manning got 35 years today, but he faced, at one time, the possibility of the death penalty.

Snowden’s responsibility (as he saw it) was to provide the US public with the information that they were being unlawfully spied on, and he did.

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

1. Um no, he fled before the document dump. Did he even try other channels?

2. You don’t know fuck about his motivations.

435 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:02:21pm

re: #393 erik_t

But but but Presidential Medal of Freedumb! Hero! Or something! Loud noises!

but FIREWORKS are so uplifting!!!
oh wait…sequestration got rid of those…

436 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:02:40pm

re: #430 gwangung

The principles of civil disobedience actually demands that he stays within the country to fight the injustice. Fleeing the country is the exact opposite of what he should have done.

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

437 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:02:57pm

re: #427 Targetpractice

Yes, we’ve heard the whole bit before, about how Snowden had no choice but to flee because he could be jailed or *gasp!* executed, despite there not being an execution of a spy in decades. And do tell, do you believe that if you break the law for the “right reasons,” that you shouldn’t have to face any penalties?

Not so incidentally, the case for charging Snowden with espionage got much stronger when he fled the US to be debriefed in China and Russia.

If he’d stayed in the US, the Feds would have needed to prove a link to a foreign power to make an espionage charge stick.

438 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:03:41pm

re: #223 triple

I think if CJ wants civility he should start with how he has treated mr. snowden.

What exactly did Charles do to Mr. Snowden that has harmed Mr. Snowden in any way?

Made fun of him on Teh Internets?

439 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:04:11pm

re: #438 Vicious Babushka

What exactly did Charles do to Mr. Snowden that has harmed Mr. Snowden in any way?

Made fun of him on Teh Internets?

I dunno, participated in character assassination while ignoring the larger issue at hand?

Snowden is not the story. He is the one who told us the story.

440 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:04:27pm

re: #432 triple

I think I do.

You’re looking at it like.. well he clearly violated the espionage act, etc.

Try not to read my mind. You’re not doing a particularly good job of reading words.

You begin your own arguments with a presumption of guilt. That is not a particularly honest way to deal with others.

441 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:04:39pm
“I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.”

Bullshit. He stole the information and headed straight for Hong Kong.

442 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:05:05pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

Dishonest blather.

And you don’t have the courage of your convictions. Civil disobediance actually includes the chance of dying for your conviction.

You’re showing yourself as more of a weasel than as someone principled.

443 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:05:18pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

Who is this “we” threatening to kill whistleblowers?
See, this is the dishonest hyperbole of your ilk.

444 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:05:29pm

Gus, show triple the circle of derp. He thinks he moved to the left, but he only slid over around the backside a little.

445 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:05:34pm

I love argument-by-declaration.

///

446 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:05:38pm

re: #432 triple

I think I do.

You’re looking at it like.. well he clearly violated the espionage act, etc.

I’m looking at it as - forget Snowden.

Lets just put it out there that the NSA has been spying on americans.

That’s illegal. That’s unconstitutional.

When you look at it from that light, Snowden has committed an illegal act to disclose an even larger illegal act by the government itself.

Do not be fooled into thinking the government is incapable of committing a crime. The constitution, as it stands, is the only true law in this nation. It’s the only one you should respect.

The problem with this narrative is that the relevant authorities have considered the constitutionality of these programs, and approved them.

If Congress is upset about the interpretations made of laws they have passed, then Congress can do something about it.

We really can’t have people doing whatever the hell they want based on their personal views of the constitution. That’s anarchy.

447 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:06:02pm

re: #437 EPR-radar

Not so incidentally, the case for charging Snowden with espionage got much stronger when he fled the US to be debriefed in China and Russia.

If he’d stayed in the US, the Feds would have needed to prove a link to a foreign power to make an espionage charge stick.

As we saw with Manning, the most devastating charges went away when the government could not prove he was directly aiding a foreign power or a known US enemy. But as we all know, the fact that he could be charged is enough reason to excuse running into our enemy’s open arms.

448 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:06:17pm

re: #446 EPR-radar

We really can’t have people doing whatever the hell they want based on their personal views of the constitution. That’s anarchy.

Well, y’know… libertarian. I think that’s the point.

449 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:06:20pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

Please cite one documented threat to kill Edward Snowden (and I’m not talking about bullshit paranoid rantings by Glenn Greenwald).

450 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:06:22pm

re: #442 gwangung

Dishonest blather.

And you don’t have the courage of your convictions.

If you found yourself in possession of information that clearly uncovered a massive crime by our government.. and you needed to publish this information.. knowing what you know, would you publish?

I wouldn’t.

Snowden did, and that’s why he’s the goddamn batman.

451 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:06:40pm

Let just put out there that triple is a fucking idiot.

There is certainly more evidence of that than any evidence showing the NSA illegally gathering intelligence or “spied” on American citizens.

452 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:01pm

re: #398 triple

It’s actually kind of funny, you guys think information is a “thing” you can “own”.

That kinda shoots a big-ass hole in your whining about the NSA glomming your info, doesn’t it?

Consistency. Looks like you’re fresh out.

453 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:04pm

re: #278 triple

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

Jesus H. Christ on a fucking pogo stick.

Go piss up a rope.

454 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:07pm

Triple fucking idiot.

455 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:22pm

You found something really truly terrible that needs to see the light of day?

Go talk to fucking Dennis Kucinich or something.

456 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:35pm
he’s the goddamn batman

Rotater.

457 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:45pm

re: #447 Targetpractice

As we saw with Manning, the most devastating charges went away when the government could not prove he was directly aiding a foreign power or a known US enemy. But as we all know, the fact that he could be charged is enough reason to excuse running into our enemy’s open arms.

Maybe if you wanted whistleblowers to not run to foreign countries, the best idea might be to not prosecute whistleblowing with the prospect of the death penalty?

JUST A THOUGHT GUYS

458 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:45pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

This applies to you:

459 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:07:50pm

re: #436 triple

where in the hell did you pull that from?

civil disobedience has it’s roots in the likes of Thoreau and Ellsberg, King, Ghandi, Mandella…. NONE of them were assassinated. All did time to illustrate what was wrong with the law, they chose to make themselves martyrs, and in so doing, changed the minds of people b y bringing attention to the injustice that they saw.

Your guy, takes his info into the arms of a foreign country, after negotiating with two media entities to ensure that he gets the credit for what he’s exposed. Then when that isn’t enough, travels to our other international rival (both of whom, I might note, have worse records than the US when it comes to “dissidents”) and rinses and repeats and then issues missives through his media voices, don’t touch me or else I’ll release something really damaging.

some fucking whistleblower indeed

460 jaunte  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:08:02pm

денщик, FFS.

461 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:08:20pm

I always love how we’re told about the wonderous man that is Edward Snowden, how he deserves various medals and awards for his courageous actions…until those actions get put under a microscope, when suddenly he doesn’t matter and the “evidence” he provided does.

Here’s a suggestion, kid, Google up “fruit of the poisonous tree.”

462 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:09:12pm

re: #457 triple

Maybe if you wanted whistleblowers to not run to foreign countries, the best idea might to not prosecute whistleblowing with the prospect of the death penalty?

JUST A THOUGHT GUYS

Uh, the charges he faces carry a max. of 10 years each. Which means anywhere from 10-30. Including time off for good behavior and possibility of parole. He is not facing the death penalty.

463 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:09:33pm
464 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:09:35pm

re: #457 triple

Maybe if you wanted whistleblowers to not run to foreign countries, the best idea might to not prosecute whistleblowing with the prospect of the death penalty?

JUST A THOUGHT GUYS

Too bad we aren’t really dealing with a ‘whistleblower’.

465 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:09:39pm

Civil Disobedience, an object lesson:

Emerson to Thoreau: “What are you doing in jail?”
Thoreau to Emerson: “What are you doing on the outside?”

Try that with Snowden and Greenwald…

466 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:09:41pm

re: #462 Gus

Uh, the charges he faces carry a max. of 10 years each. Which means anywhere from 10-30. Including time off for good behavior and possibility of parole. He is not facing the death penalty.

Nor is he a whistleblower, but these trifling facts bother triple not.

467 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:09:55pm

re: #462 Gus

Uh, the charges he faces carry a max. of 10 years each. Which means anywhere from 10-30. Including time off for good behavior and possibility of parole. He is not facing the death penalty.

Manning was, and how would snowden know what he was facing before he released anything?

468 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:10:07pm

re: #459 piratedan

469 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:10:07pm

re: #450 triple

If you found yourself in possession of information that clearly uncovered a massive crime by our government.. and you needed to publish this information.. knowing what you know, would you publish?

I wouldn’t.

Snowden did, and that’s why he’s the goddamn batman.

And that makes you a weasel without the courage of your convictions.

I’m convinced now that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about; you’re short and skimpy on details and particulars. And that’s where the world lies—-grand principles get tripped up in the messy details of the real world.

You may have mastered the ideology and big principles, but I’m convinced you don’t know and don’t care about the details.

470 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:10:28pm

re: #464 wrenchwench

Too bad we aren’t really dealing with a ‘whistleblower’.

Depends on your perspective, I guess.

My perspective is the american people, what’s yours? The NSA?

471 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:10:35pm

The Triple Circle of Derp

472 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:10:59pm

re: #457 triple

Maybe if you wanted whistleblowers to not run to foreign countries, the best idea might to not prosecute whistleblowing with the prospect of the death penalty?

JUST A THOUGHT GUYS

Perhaps, if one doesn’t want to be charged with providing classified info to our enemies, they shouldn’t run into the arms of our enemies.

473 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:11:06pm

re: #465 Sol Berdinowitz

Civil Dispbediance, an object lesson:

Emerson to Thoreau: “What are you doing in jail?”
Thoreau to Emerson: “What are you doing outside?”

Try that with Snowden and Greenwald…

Greenwald to Snowden: “What are you doing in Russia?”
Snowden to Greenwald: “What the fuck am I doing in Russia?”

474 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:11:35pm

re: #467 triple

Manning was, and how would snowden know what he was facing before he released anything?

You see, there are these things called laws, and people with security clearances, especially new hires, get these things called briefings annually, to make sure they understand what laws apply to them and the materials they handle.

475 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:11:45pm

re: #470 triple

Depends on your perspective, I guess.

My perspective is the american people, what’s yours? The NSA?

I am an American person, therefore I can deny that your perspective is ‘the american people’.

I think your perspective is ‘comic book’.

476 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:11:45pm

re: #123 Eventual Carrion

Yeah. Kind of like “regifting”. “Restealing”. Seinfeld could have done an entire episode on the Snowbro caper(s).

477 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:11:56pm

re: #472 Targetpractice

Perhaps, if one doesn’t want to be charged with providing classified info to our enemies, they shouldn’t run into the arms of our enemies.

Manning never did, that didn’t stop them..

Leak to the media? The terrorists can read the news, you’ve just provided classified intel to our enemies.

The government is broken.

478 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:12:20pm

re: #450 triple

If you found yourself in possession of information that clearly uncovered a massive crime by our government.. and you needed to publish this information.. knowing what you know, would you publish?

I wouldn’t.

Snowden did, and that’s why he’s the goddamn batman.

*Head*
*Desk*

479 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:12:32pm

re: #473 darthstar

Greenwald to Snowden: “What are you doing in Russia?”
Snowden to Greenwald: “What the fuck am I doing in Russia?”

I’m reminded of old Looney Tunes cartoons. E.g., one where Bugs Bunny ends up marooned on the moon, ending with “Get me outta here!!!”

480 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:12:44pm

re: #474 Kragar

You see, there are these things called laws, and people with security clearances, especially new hires, get these things called briefings annually, to make sure they understand what laws apply to them and the materials they handle.

Right, because the law has stopped overzealous prosecutors before.

481 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:12:59pm

Salad shooter of derp.

482 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:13:15pm

I dub triple “The Derp Knight”

483 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:13:25pm

re: #456 wrenchwench

Rotater.

Seconded.

484 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:13:35pm

re: #477 triple

Manning never did, that didn’t stop them..

Leak to the media? The terrorists can read the news, you’ve just provided classified intel to our enemies.

The government is broken.

Which means you’re either a disingenuous little fuck or a clueless one, as those charges were dismissed by the judge on the grounds that the government could not make a case for direct help to the enemy.

485 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:13:35pm

When is the proper time to call Snowden ’ Comrade ’ ? 6 weeks? 1 year? 2 years?

486 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:13:41pm

That’s actually a really good nick, can I steal it?

487 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:08pm

re: #477 triple

Manning never did, that didn’t stop them..

Leak to the media? The terrorists can read the news, you’ve just provided classified intel to our enemies.

The government is broken.

I also think the government is broken in many ways. Perhaps you could share your thoughts on possible solutions to this problem.

488 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:22pm

re: #274 triple

To get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors”..

Note it doesn’t say “contribution to the american government”, or “the current administration”.. it says the United States.

I believe Snowden, while pissing off the current administration, and the NSA, has done the United States, and it’s people, a huge favor. He spoke up, he stood up on the bus, and he did something he wasn’t supposed to. If that’s not american, I don’t know what is.

Rosa Parks did not have an exit strategy.

489 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:22pm

re: #484 Targetpractice

Which means you’re either a disingenuous little fuck or a clueless one, as those charges were dismissed by the judge on the grounds that the government could not make a case for direct help to the enemy.

But do you understand that the government still tried to stick that charge?

And who knows, with another judge, it sticks.

490 freetoken  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:25pm

Triple Troll

491 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:30pm

re: #486 triple

That’s actually a really good nick, can I steal it?

OK, Salad Shooter of Derp it is.

492 piratedan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:30pm

re: #483 Bubblehead II

and so it was written, let him ascend into the circle of the Knights of Derp

493 Mattand  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:43pm

re: #482 Kragar

I dub triple “The Derp Knight”

He’s not the troll the internet wanted, but he’s the troll the internet deserves.

494 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:14:50pm

re: #486 triple

That’s actually a really good nick, can I steal it?

A nickname is, like, just information, mannnn. You can’t, like, own information, dude.

495 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:15:15pm

Mah derp meter just broke.

496 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:15:31pm

re: #480 triple

Right, because the law has stopped overzealous prosecutors before.

You asked how could Snowden know what he faced if he broke the law. He knew exactly what he could expect.

497 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:15:37pm

2+2=4. Do I own that information?

Can I sell it?

It’s not the same thing as copyright. I understand copyright.

We’re talking about knowledge. Knowledge that our government is spying on americans. You can’t own that.

498 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:15:44pm

re: #495 Gus

Mah derp meter just broke.

They don’t hold up well to being buried.

499 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:15:51pm

re: #495 Gus

Mah derp meter just broke.

Fractal wrongness will do that.

500 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:16:21pm

Oh for pity’s sake

501 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:16:39pm

re: #145 Backwoods_Sleuth

Backwoods: Do you still live in Cincinnati (if you don’t mind sharing that)?

502 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:16:54pm

triple shark jump

503 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:16:55pm

re: #495 Gus

Mah derp meter just broke.

Youtube Video

504 gwangung  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:17:10pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

Black Americans in the Jim Crow era disagree.

IDIOT.

505 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:17:11pm

re: #497 triple

2+2=4. Do I own that information?

Can I sell it?

It’s not the same thing as copyright. I understand copyright.

We’re talking about knowledge. Knowledge that our government is spying on americans. You can’t own that.

Do you believe that nation-states can keep secrets, yes or no?

506 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:17:15pm

Evening Lizardim.

507 freetoken  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:17:30pm

(Triple Troll)3

508 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:17:33pm

re: #505 Targetpractice

Do you believe that nation-states can keep secrets, yes or no?

They can try.

509 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:17:48pm

re: #506 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim.

Turn back before its too late.

510 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:18:10pm

re: #506 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim.

The war on derp has a new flavor today.

511 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:18:30pm

re: #497 triple

2+2=4. Do I own that information?

Can I sell it?

It’s not the same thing as copyright. I understand copyright.

We’re talking about knowledge. Knowledge that our government is spying on americans. You can’t own that.

So they can’t own information on Afghan translators? The location of NSA and CIA agents around the world? The planned deployments of nuclear subs? Launch codes? The private information of its citizens that they may possess is not something they can own?

512 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:18:52pm

re: #510 EPR-radar

The war on derp has a new flavor today.

I am seeing this. Brb, donning my asbestos scales.

513 jaunte  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:19:10pm

re: #511 Gus

Tyrrunnee!

514 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:19:47pm

re: #497 triple

2+2=4. Do I own that information?

Can I sell it?

OMG! You don’t understand the difference between Knowledge and proprietary information.

515 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:20:16pm

re: #508 triple

They can try.

So again, if the Brits chose to destroy all the data that was on Miranda’s hardware before returning it, would that satisfy his demand for his property to be returned?

516 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:20:19pm

Speaking of fucking douchebags…

517 brennant  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:20:21pm

re: #506 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim.

Evening! Please don your beer helmet. It’s going to be a long night. You may need your hands free.

518 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:20:28pm
519 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:20:43pm

re: #511 Gus

So they can’t own information on Afghan translators? The location of NSA and CIA agents around the world? The planned deployments of nuclear subs? Launch codes? The private information of its citizens that they may possess is not something they can own?

No fair gus…he wants to know abut 2+2, not the serious shit.
Its all about the principle don’t ya know?

520 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:20:43pm

re: #514 A Man for all Seasons

OMG! You don’t understand the difference between Knowledge and proprietary information.

Of course not. A proper libertarian would most likely deny the existence of this thing called ‘proprietary information’

521 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:21:17pm

re: #520 EPR-radar

Of course not. A proper libertarian would most likely deny the existence of this thing called ‘proprietary information’

…except when it’s his proprietary information.

522 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:21:19pm

re: #495 Gus

Mah derp meter just broke.

Hell, mine melted down about 200 comments back. What brand are you using?

523 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:21:51pm

re: #522 Bubblehead II

Hell, mine melted down about 200 comments back. What brand are you using?

I just wound up building my own. It’s got some pretty chunky relays in it.

524 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:22:11pm

Okay, I’m done. I’m all emodudebro’d out.

Have a good evening, Lizards. Maybe by the time I get back later, this chirpy little nuisance will be a none-too-fond memory.

525 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:22:56pm

re: #518 Gus

[Embedded content]

Man gets shot, killers are quickly arrested and brought up on the charges. How much more to the story do they want? Like how did the kids get access to the guns? Sorry, the NRA doesn’t like that.

526 jaunte  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:23:02pm

re: #518 Gus

LSMFT

527 brennant  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:23:04pm

re: #518 Gus

She is just making shit up.

528 allegro  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:23:32pm

re: #379 triple

Do you people not understand it’s completely legal to possess, report on, and generally obtain classified information? It’s only illegal if you actually were trusted with that information in the first place.

LOLWUT?

529 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:23:52pm

re: #504 gwangung

Black Americans in the Jim Crow era disagree.

IDIOT.

If Gwangung has given up on you, you’re done, triple.

530 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:23:57pm

re: #506 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim.

Run! Run for your life! The Derpatron has run amuck amongst us!

531 brennant  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:23:58pm

re: #518 Gus

Let’s talk more about POTUS lack of white dogs. Ugh.

532 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:24:07pm

re: #423 triple

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

Manning got 35 years today, but he faced, at one time, the possibility of the death penalty.

Snowden’s responsibility (as he saw it) was to provide the US public with the information that they were being unlawfully spied on, and he did.

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

You have no grasp of Civil Disobedience.

533 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:24:49pm

re: #528 allegro

LOLWUT?

I know. It’s like finding a new flavor of creationist in the wild.

534 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:24:51pm

If information is not property, triple, then please provide me with your SSN, mother’s maiden name, and your birthday. After all, why should you be able to keep such things to yourself when information belongs to everyone?

535 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:25:12pm

re: #518 Gus

[Embedded content]

Media spent more time on Obama’s new $1000 dog than evil thrill kill of Chris Lane;double standard shows LSM true colors & desire to exploit

They’ve spent even less time on Alexis Murphy.

536 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:25:14pm
537 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:25:18pm

re: #534 Targetpractice

If information is not property, triple, then please provide me with your SSN, mother’s maiden name, and your birthday. After all, why should you be able to keep such things to yourself when information belongs to everyone?

Information’s just gotta be free, man.

538 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:25:27pm

re: #510 EPR-radar

The war on derp has a new flavor today.

Derp is Derp, regardless of its flavor/color.

539 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:25:39pm

re: #534 Targetpractice

If information is not property, triple, then please provide me with your SSN, mother’s maiden name, and your birthday. After all, why should you be able to keep such things to yourself when information belongs to everyone?

Its selfish to keep it secret when it want to run free!

540 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:25:53pm

re: #423 triple

I think even snowden agrees fleeing the country is not what he wanted to do.. rather he was forced to do it.

Manning got 35 years today, but he faced, at one time, the possibility of the death penalty.

Snowden’s responsibility (as he saw it) was to provide the US public with the information that they were being unlawfully spied on, and he did.

He was under no responsibility to suffer his life for that disclosure.

Who forced him to do it?

If you believe your cause is just should not be afraid to be arrested go on trial for your “crimes” it’s what some civil rights protesters did all the time int he 60’s….

541 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:26:17pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

You REALLY don’t have a grasp of Civil Disobedience.

542 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:26:26pm

re: #538 Bubblehead II

Derp is Derp, regardless of its flavor/color.

Very true. The total irrelevance of facts to a derper is the dead giveaway.

543 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:26:26pm

re: #540 jamesfirecat

Who forced him to do it?

If you believe your cause is just should not be afraid to be arrested go on trial for your “crimes” it’s what some civil rights protesters did all the time int he 60’s….

Hey now, we all remember Dr. King’s infamous “Letter From a Hong Kong Hotel Suite.”

544 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:27:19pm

re: #543 Targetpractice

Hey now, we all remember Dr. King’s infamous “Letter From a Hong Kong Hotel Suite.”

And the follow up “Letter from a KGB debriefing room”.

545 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:28:01pm

re: #541 GeneJockey

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

You REALLY don’t have a grasp of Civil Disobedience.

Nor does he grasp ‘whistleblowers’, nor ‘kill’, nor ‘threatening’, nor ‘principles’.

546 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:28:37pm
547 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:29:07pm

re: #537 thedopefishlives

Information’s just gotta be free, man.

For certain values of “free” that involve a limited number of people with the technical ability to steal information distributing information as they see fit.

Because states are always suspicious, but lone individuals never have ulterior motives.

548 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:29:55pm

re: #545 wrenchwench

You REALLY don’t have a grasp of Civil Disobedience.

Nor does he grasp ‘whistleblowers’, nor ‘kill’, nor ‘threatening’, nor ‘principles’.

‘legal’ ‘illegal’ ‘constitutional’ and ‘unconstitutional’ can be added to the lengthy list of concepts today’s chew-toy does not grasp.

It’s discouraging that his/her posts are literate, and that we are apparently conversing with a voter.

549 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:30:01pm

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

550 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:30:08pm

Hey triple?
Can I have your bank account number?
After all, your money is just data in a computer system.
Thanks!

551 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:30:26pm

re: #294 Backwoods_Sleuth

Full Metal Emo.

552 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:30:28pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

Prove it was stolen.

553 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:31:05pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

Sure, let us know when this happens.

554 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:31:08pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

If you can prove the NSA stole data that specifically belonged to you, rather than things that belong to someone else (like IP records/email headers and phone logs), go right ahead.

555 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:31:09pm
556 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:31:15pm

re: #550 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Hey triple?
Can I have your bank account number?
After all, your money is just data in a computer system.
Thanks!

You can’t, but the NSA probably already has it. Go ask them!

557 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:31:31pm

re: #536 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Some one should ask Palin how many Native Americans she condemned to death with her policies.

558 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:32:01pm

re: #419 The Ghost of a Flea

Frankly, whether you’re liberal or conservative, you’re apparently not processing the gulf between what you strongly feel…and the narrative you’ve created to sync your feelings to the current situation…and what information is actually available.

Great (reusable) troll analysis here.

559 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:32:32pm

re: #549 triple

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

I very much, extremely double extra super-size much doubt that the NSA has that information. The sheer volume of data, never mind the number of analysts they’d have to hire to dig through that data, staggers the mind.

Again with the innumeracy.

560 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:33:04pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

Are you mad when the magical pixies sneak into your house and steal your stuff and replace it with exact duplicates? You have just as much evidence of that occurring as you do of the NSA stealing your emails.

561 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:33:16pm

re: #552 Targetpractice

Prove it was stolen.

How? The NSA doesn’t come out and tell you they have it.

We have to rely on people like Snowden.

562 jaunte  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:33:32pm

re: #556 triple

You can’t, but the NSA probably already has it. Go ask them!

You’d better close that account before they get the money.

563 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:33:55pm

re: #561 triple

How? The NSA doesn’t come out and tell you they have it.

We have to rely on people like Snowden.

Why trust Snowden? Because you’ve been told to? Been assured he has no agenda other than to tell you the truth?

564 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:34:05pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

Sure, you can be pissed about that, just don’t go calling a guy a hero when he steels secrets, then hightails it to a(n) nation(s) that has(ve) less than deeply allied relationship with our government, that’s not civil disobedience, that/ spying.


Snowden would be much more credible and be doing a much greater service to his cause if he was currently awaiting trial /in jail rather than in Russia.

565 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:34:07pm

re: #559 erik_t

I very much, extremely double extra super-size much doubt that the NSA has that information. The sheer volume of data, never mind the number of analysts they’d have to hire to dig through that data, staggers the mind.

Again with the innumeracy.

Yeah, it’s not like they have a giant data center that can store yottabytes of information.

566 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:34:31pm

re: #561 triple

How? The NSA doesn’t come out and tell you they have it.

We have to rely on people like Snowden.

If you’re relying on Snowden, I have some bad news for you.

567 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:34:34pm

re: #565 triple

Yeah, it’s not like they have a giant data center that can store yottabytes of information.

You should be taking a sarcastic tone. I am terrified that you are not.

568 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:34:49pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

Uh, you’ve been arguing that you can’t own information…
Way to contradict yourself, champ.

569 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:03pm

re: #564 jamesfirecat

Sure, you can be pissed about that, just don’t go calling a guy a hero when he steels secrets, then hightails it to a(n) nation(s) that has(ve) less than deeply allied relationship with our government, that’s not civil disobedience, that/ spying.

Snowden would be much more credible and be doing a much greater service to his cause if he was currently awaiting trial /in jail rather than in Russia.

What would be the point of that? If he was in solitary - because that’s where he’d be - he’s kind of useless on the “whistleblowing” front.

The whole point is not to shut up. If you’re in solitary, you’re doing it wrong.

570 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:09pm

re: #565 triple

Yeah, it’s not like they have a giant data center that can store yottabytes of information.

If you’re actually serious about this, you have a lot to learn about data storage.

571 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:19pm

re: #564 jamesfirecat

Sure, you can be pissed about that, just don’t go calling a guy a hero when he steals secrets, then hightails it to a(n) nation(s) that has(ve) less than deeply allied relationship with our government, that’s not civil disobedience, that/ spying.

Snowden would be much more credible and be doing a much greater service to his cause if he was currently awaiting trial /in jail rather than in Russia.

EDIT:Error post just ignore this everyone, that especially means you!

572 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:24pm

re: #568 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Uh, you’ve been arguing that you can’t own information…
Way to contradict yourself, chmap.

You must have missed the part where I was wrong. Also, congrats on realizing the point.

573 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:38pm

re: #568 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Uh, you’ve been arguing that you can’t own information…
Way to contradict yourself, chmap.

DAMN IT, I TOLD YOU TO SECURE THOSE FUCKING GOALPOSTS!

574 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:55pm

re: #561 triple

How? The NSA doesn’t come out and tell you they have it.

We have to rely on people like Snowden.

who has never proven or really even stated anything of the kind.

575 SpaceJesus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:35:56pm

So uh, gay marriage is “kind of legal” right now in NM

krqe.com

576 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:36:36pm
577 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:36:58pm

re: #549 triple

Oh, man. You guys have some great arguments.

You know what, I was wrong. Don’t say I never admit when I’m wrong. You can own information. You can steal information.

So let me ask you this.

Am I entitled to be pissed off when the NSA steals my private emails, phone records, and web history? That’s my information. I’m not a terrorist. I’m not talking to any terrorists. I’m an american fucking citizen.

And I’m entitled to my information. I want it back.

Actually shit for brains, IT IS NOT YOUR INFORMATION! It belongs to your service provider. NEWS FLASH! This is why they serve the ISPs/Telcos with a search warrant and not you.

578 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:37:30pm

re: #574 blueraven

who has never proven or really even stated anything of the kind.

But the possibility for abuse exists, so it must be destroyed!
/

579 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:37:49pm

re: #575 SpaceJesus

So uh, gay marriage is “kind of legal” right now in NM

krqe.com

Hooray for NM

580 BongCrodny  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:37:55pm

Assuming that 56,000 number is correct, you could multiply it by a million and there’d still be less than a 1% chance any particular e-mail is looked at.

581 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:37:55pm

re: #569 triple

What would be the point of that? If he was in solitary - because that’s where he’d be - he’s kind of useless on the “whistleblowing” front.

The whole point is not to shut up. If you’re in solitary, you’re doing it wrong.

He’s not in solitary? You think that the Russians are not watching his every move, keeping control over where can go and where he can’t, and monitoring the communications he makes with those outside the country?

He’s in prison, it’s just one that’s not answerable to you or I. Who’s going to speak up against his imprisonment, the pimps who are using his image to line their pockets?

582 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:37:57pm

re: #569 triple

What would be the point of that? If he was in solitary - because that’s where he’d be - he’s kind of useless on the “whistleblowing” front.

The whole point is not to shut up. If you’re in solitary, you’re doing it wrong.

If they out you in solitary then first you have to have already voiced what you took to the world at large which gets the ball rolling.

After that if they out you in solitary write down your thoughts/opinions on why what they are doing to you is wrong, voice them /have your lawyer argue them when you are given your trial.

Besides how much can Snowden do to influence people when now everything he says has to be heard through a Russian filter?

583 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:38:16pm

re: #561 triple

How? The NSA doesn’t come out and tell you they have it.

We have to rely on people like Snowden.

Who told you your stuff was stolen, but can’t prove it.

Who stole stuff nominally to prove it, but hasn’t provided anybody with that data that damnably demonstrates that your stuff was stolen. And who left out a bunch of legal details on courts and warrants to make it seem like stealing your stuff is way easier than it would be.

Who fled the country his own stolen materials.

Dude, all of your shit is underpinned by an assumption of NSA bad, Snowden better. Therefore, in a void of information, you’re assuming you can trust Snowden. When I say “I can’t argue with that” I do not mean it in the colloquial “I agree” sense, but literally, you cannot argue against an unfounded belief.

584 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:38:37pm

Libertarians are weird.

585 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:38:55pm

The NSA only has 30-40 thousand employees. Facebook, alone, has about six thousand, and their level of in-person investigation of the stuff posted there is pretty minimal.

Google, which likewise uses only algorithms and machines and such to do their cataloging, and certainly does not handle every email ever sent, employs more people than the NSA.

586 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:39:12pm

re: #570 thedopefishlives

If you’re actually serious about this, you have a lot to learn about data storage.

Given the facility’s scale and the fact that a terabyte of data can now be stored on a flash drive the size of a man’s pinky, the potential amount of information that could be housed in Bluffdale is truly staggering. But so is the exponential growth in the amount of intelligence data being produced every day by the eavesdropping sensors of the NSA and other intelligence agencies. As a result of this “expanding array of theater airborne and other sensor networks,” as a 2007 Department of Defense report puts it, the Pentagon is attempting to expand its worldwide communications network, known as the Global Information Grid, to handle yottabytes (1024 bytes) of data. (A yottabyte is a septillion bytes—so large that no one has yet coined a term for the next higher magnitude.)

It needs that capacity because, according to a recent report by Cisco, global Internet traffic will quadruple from 2010 to 2015, reaching 966 exabytes per year. (A million exabytes equal a yottabyte.) In terms of scale, Eric Schmidt, Google’s former CEO, once estimated that the total of all human knowledge created from the dawn of man to 2003 totaled 5 exabytes. And the data flow shows no sign of slowing. In 2011 more than 2 billion of the world’s 6.9 billion people were connected to the Internet. By 2015, market research firm IDC estimates, there will be 2.7 billion users. Thus, the NSA’s need for a 1-million-square-foot data storehouse. Should the agency ever fill the Utah center with a yottabyte of information, it would be equal to about 500 quintillion (500,000,000,000,000,000,000) pages of text.

wired.com

You’re right. Data storage - not my thing. But don’t worry - they’re probably only storing several exabytes.

And apparently mankind has only ever made 5 exabytes of information prior to 2003? Huh.

587 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:39:29pm

re: #584 Charles Johnson

Libertarians are weird.

Yup. Utter and complete nutjobs.

588 jaunte  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:39:45pm

re: #584 Charles Johnson

“You can’t trust government. Rand Paul for President.”

589 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:40:36pm

re: #588 jaunte

“You can’t trust government. Rand Paul for President.”

“I was inspired to go into government service by reading the works of Ayn Rand….”

590 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:41:04pm

re: #577 Bubblehead II

Actually shit for brains, IT IS NOT YOUR INFORMATION! It belongs to your service provider. NEWS FLASH! This is why they serve the ISPs/Telcos with a search warrant and not you.

My assumption is that the contents of the emails would belong to the subscribers, and that the ISP would have a some kind of duty to preserve that info in confidence. Complying with a court order does not violate that duty.

The phone records and web history probably count as metadata which has no legal protection.

591 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:41:16pm

re: #584 Charles Johnson

Libertarians are weird.

I’m a socialist, but I agree I’m pretty weird.

592 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:41:24pm

re: #586 triple

I’m sorry, did I miss something? The headline of the article: IS BUILDING. How much data is stored in that data center currently? I bet I could fit it all on a single finger.

593 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:42:11pm

re: #591 triple

I’m a socialist, but I agree I’m pretty weird.

You’re no socialist.

594 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:42:34pm

re: #436 triple

The principles of civil disobedience were invented before we started threatening to kill whistleblowers.

Patrick Henry comes to mind…

595 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:42:42pm

re: #585 erik_t

The NSA only has 30-40 thousand employees. Facebook, alone, has about six thousand, and their level of in-person investigation of the stuff posted there is pretty minimal.

Google, which likewise uses only algorithms and machines and such to do their cataloging, and certainly does not handle every email ever sent, employs more people than the NSA.

But.. as we all know, the NSA shares its data with contractors and foreign intelligence, not to mention the DEA.

596 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:42:56pm

re: #584 Charles Johnson

Libertarians are weird.

That’s puting it mildly. This rodeo clown is starting to make Glenn Beck look sane.

597 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:05pm

re: #575 SpaceJesus

So uh, gay marriage is “kind of legal” right now in NM

krqe.com

Let’s kind of celebrate!

598 OhNoZombies!  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:06pm

She takes a seat, sips her coffee, and wonders who the hell let their kid play on their computer…
{{{sip}}}

599 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:11pm

You probably think this comment is about you.

600 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:12pm

re: #591 triple

I’m a socialist, but I agree I’m pretty weird.

When you say you’re a socialist what does that mean to you exactly?


Because lord knows that term gets tossed around a lot in politics without it ever being defined properly 99% of the time….

601 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:48pm

re: #591 triple

I’m a socialist, but I agree I’m pretty weird.

I love to see socialist proposals for fixing our broken government. There’s a decent chance I’ll even agree with them. Ideas from the left don’t often get aired.

Please share.

602 erik_t  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:52pm

This has become tiresome. I am going to eat dinner and not think about dumb people.

603 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:43:59pm

re: #593 wrenchwench

You’re no socialist.

I’m whatever I want to be. It’s a free country, something LGF apparently forgot.

604 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:44:16pm

re: #588 jaunte

“You can’t trust government. Rand Paul for President.”

605 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:44:33pm

re: #599 Charles Johnson

You probably think this comment is about you.

This entire fucking thread is about me, charles.

606 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:44:43pm

re: #600 jamesfirecat

When you say you’re a socialist what does that mean to you exactly?

Because lord knows that term gets tossed around a lot in politics without it ever being defined properly 99% of the time….

You know, talks to a lot of people, engages with people at parties, attends a lot of events to know whats going on in the community.

Socialist.
/

607 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:44:53pm

re: #603 triple

I’m whatever I want to be.

Unless you want to be smart. That path seems to have been denied.

608 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:44:56pm

re: #605 triple

This entire fucking thread is about me, charles.

Hi Glenn!

609 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:44:59pm

First he didn’t believe information could be owned, so it couldn’t be stolen. So why would he be upset if the NSA had information on him?

Then he feigns conversion. Now information CAN be owned, so it CAN be stolen. But he’s still defending someone he now believes is a thief.

We can only hope when his head stops spinning, his face is to the front. (Stole that from A Man For All Seasons. The movie, not the lizard.)

610 SpaceJesus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:45:02pm

re: #597 wrenchwench

We might be getting some input from the NM Supreme Court rather soon as well


eqnm.org

611 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:45:14pm

Oh boy.

612 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:45:20pm

I had a dream there were clouds in my coffee.

613 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:45:42pm

re: #603 triple

I’m whatever I want to be. It’s a free country, something LGF apparently forgot.

Yes, anyone can claim to be whatever they want on the internet and the rest of us can call bullshit.

614 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:45:45pm

re: #609 GeneJockey

First he didn’t believe information could be owned, so it couldn’t be stolen. So why would he be upset if the NSA had information on him?

Then he feigns conversion. Now information CAN be owned, so it CAN be stolen. But he’s still defending someone he now believes is a thief.

We can only hope when his head stops spinning, his face is to the front. (Stole that from A Man For All Seasons. The movie, not the lizard.)

Schrodinger’s Derp.

615 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:46:02pm

re: #594 Backwoods_Sleuth

Patrick Henry comes to mind…

“Give me liberty, or I’m gonna piss off to France!”

616 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:46:13pm

re: #609 GeneJockey

First he didn’t believe information could be owned, so it couldn’t be stolen. So why would he be upset if the NSA had information on him?

Then he feigns conversion. Now information CAN be owned, so it CAN be stolen. But he’s still defending someone he now believes is a thief.

We can only hope when his head stops spinning, his face is to the front. (Stole that from A Man For All Seasons. The movie, not the lizard.)

I guess my question is, why is it wrong to steal from the NSA, but it’s not wrong to steal from.. well.. us?

617 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:46:21pm

re: #610 SpaceJesus

We might be getting some input from the NM Supreme Court rather soon as well

eqnm.org

I really like the idea of it having been legal all along, for lack of gendered words in the law.

619 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:46:52pm

I’m going through that Wired article in more detail right now. There are several errors of fact that perfectly fit with the derpy theme of our little guest.

620 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:47:02pm

re: #618 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Hey Gus, gotta mention here;
The Guardian’s Computer Smash-Up Story Grows Increasingly Bizarre & Ridiculous

As did Charles.

621 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:47:08pm

re: #613 blueraven

Yes, anyone can claim to be whatever they want on the internet and the rest of us can call bullshit.

Hey if that’s how you want to spend wednesday nights, who am I to stop you?

622 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:47:15pm

re: #610 SpaceJesus

We might be getting some input from the NM Supreme Court rather soon as well

eqnm.org

PS: Page that.

623 SpaceJesus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:47:16pm

re: #617 wrenchwench

and the fact that the NM Constitution expressly prohibits discrimination based on gender.

624 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:47:51pm

re: #621 triple

Hey if that’s how you want to spend wednesday nights, who am I to stop you?

Wouldn’t it be easier to just prove us wrong about talking about what being a socialist means to you and how you for see as he best way to reform this broken govenrment?

625 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:48:05pm

re: #616 triple

I guess my question is, why is it wrong to steal from the NSA, but it’s not wrong to steal from.. well.. us?

When ONE SINGLE person comes forward with evidence that the NSA has stolen something from them, then we can talk.

626 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:48:09pm

re: #616 triple

I guess my question is, why is it wrong to steal from the NSA, but it’s not wrong to steal from.. well.. us?

What exactly has the NSA stolen? Please cite examples.

627 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:49:09pm

re: #616 triple

I guess my question is, why is it wrong to steal from the NSA, but it’s not wrong to steal from.. well.. us?

Again, for the Nth time - what was stolen, and where’s your proof? Snowden’s word? Because for absolutely sure, nothing he’s released so far through Greenwald et al. supports anything like what you claim goes on.

628 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:49:37pm

re: #624 jamesfirecat

Wouldn’t it be easier to just prove us wrong about talking about what being a socialist means to you and how you for see as he best wayntonreform this broken govenrment?

I can’t wait to see “Ron Paul for POTUS” put forth as a socialist idea for US reform.

629 SpaceJesus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:50:40pm

re: #622 wrenchwench

In a bit. I gotta get home.

631 darthstar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:50:43pm

re: #616 triple

I guess my question is, why is it wrong to steal from the NSA, but it’s not wrong to steal from.. well.. us?

Because they’re not ‘stealing’ anything. They’re looking for patterns that relate to known suspected terrorists - phone calls, IP addresses, frequency, etc. When something creates a cluster around it they investigate further - if it’s benign they dump it and move on to the next cluster. If more red flags are raised, they get clearance (i.e. warrants) to look at the actual data, or in the cases of telephones, tap the lines.

Nothing is being stolen from us…or you for that matter.

632 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:51:12pm

re: #603 triple

I’m whatever I want to be. It’s a free country, something LGF apparently forgot.

Yes.

Disagreeing with your assumptions and not treating “probably” as “factually, totally happening” is totally a sign we’re part of some kind of false consciousness.

It’s not enough that most of the people here want the Patriot Act gone, it’s not enough that people talk about more FISA transparency. Anything short of completely agreement with your assertions means being pro-tyranny.

633 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:51:31pm

Tech question- I retweeted this Page. Counter shows zero retweets. is there a delay?

634 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:51:54pm

re: #630 Pavlovian Hive Mind

WTF.
Image: Screen-Shot-2013-08-21-at-12.21.52-PM.png

Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat, or perhaps flossing it from the teeth of defeat. Maybe sifting it from the excrement of defeat.

635 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:52:07pm

Darwin Award Nominee.

636 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:52:34pm

Your local ISP or Facebook admin has probably looked at more of your “private” information than the NSA would ever want to.

637 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:52:43pm

re: #632 The Ghost of a Flea

Yes.

Disagreeing with your assumptions and not treating “probably” as “factually, totally happening” is totally a sign we’re part of some kind of false consciousness.

It’s not enough that most of the people here want the Patriot Act gone, it’s not enough that people talk about more FISA transparency. Anything short of completely agreement with your assertions means being pro-tyranny.

Anybody know where I get some more shoe polish for my jackboots?

//

638 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:53:32pm

re: #637 Targetpractice

Anybody know where I get some more shoe polish for my jackboots?

//

I think if you burn the bones of the oppressed, and mix it with their rendered fat, that should work.

639 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:54:41pm

So the Wired article basically makes a significant assumption: They assume that the massive facility is entirely dedicated to storage of intercepted information. Truth be told, nobody has any clue what Bluffdale is for. If the place was dedicated as a 100% storage farm using the densest possible storage media, sure, perhaps it could store the entirety of human information and then some. But that is nothing but pure speculation, and an unfounded one at that. The article talks about the Pentagon wanting to increase its network capacity to yottabyte scales in the near future because of the increase in data transfers from smaller devices, like Internet-capable sensors. To top it all off, this facility is scheduled to be completed this year. The NSA does not have all of your emails with your grandma back home on file. I’m sorry, I know you wish they did so that your butthurt would be validated, but it’s not true.

640 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:55:17pm

re: #638 GeneJockey

I think if you burn the bones of the oppressed, and mix it with their rendered fat, that should work.

Emo prog tears are wonderful for polishing jackboots and other assorted fascist leather fashion accessories.

641 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:56:26pm

re: #618 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Hey Gus, gotta mention here;
The Guardian’s Computer Smash-Up Story Grows Increasingly Bizarre & Ridiculous

Ah, found it. Thanks.

642 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:56:41pm

re: #624 jamesfirecat

Wouldn’t it be easier to just prove us wrong about talking about what being a socialist means to you and how you for see as he best wayntonreform this broken govenrment?

Sure.

Here’s how to fix: Stop doing evil. Stop prosecuting those who call you on it. Stop doing evil because “terrorism”. That’s called “letting the terrorists win.”

Stop making me feel like I’m living in a bad spy novel.

Stop making alex jones right. He’s a douchebag and doesn’t deserve to be.

Here are some things I think should happen but won’t.

-Religion no longer is influential.
-Money gets out of politics.
-Term limits.
-We stop gerrymandering.
-We stop voting rights abuses. By forcing ID, we disenfranchise more than we gain from fraud. Voting is a chore, no one does it twice for fun.
-Legalize drugs. I’ve never smoked in my life, but does anyone think prison is the answer? Rehab, people. AA. There are ways to fix this without minimum sentences for nonviolent offenders.
-Free health care. I have it in MA. It’s pretty awesome. Canadians seem to like it.
-Metric system

643 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:57:03pm

re: #640 EPR-radar

Emo prog tears are wonderful for polishing jackboots and other assorted fascist leather fashion accessories.

Yeah, but you have to add them to the recipe I described. Kinda like spit-polish.

Emo prog tears do a great job on brass, though.

644 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:57:22pm

re: #626 Kragar

What exactly has the NSA stolen? Please cite examples.

America’s moral authority.

645 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:57:36pm

re: #637 Targetpractice

Anybody know where I get some more shoe polish for my jackboots?

//

Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer Kiwi brand polish for my jackboots. All my fellow lickspittle authoritarian NSA-worshipping comrades are always asking me how I manage to make them look sooooo fine.

646 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:57:46pm

re: #644 triple

America’s moral authority.

*snort*

Dammit, now you owe me a new keyboard. And a Coke.

647 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:57:57pm

In better news…someone who refused to go to Russia.

Prison Break Star Wentworth Miller Comes Out As Gay

eonline.com

“I am deeply troubled by the current attitude toward and treatment of gay men and women by the Russian government,” he continued in the letter, posted on GLAAD’s website. “The situation is in no way acceptable, and I cannot in good conscience participate in a celebratory occasion hosted by a country where people like myself are being systematically denied their basic right to live and love openly.

648 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:57:58pm

re: #644 triple

America’s moral authority.

Remember to put the kleenex and handlotion away.

649 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:58:05pm

re: #590 EPR-radar

“My assumption is that the contents of the emails would belong to the subscribers, and that the ISP would have a some kind of duty to preserve that info in confidence. Complying with a court order does not violate that duty.”

Nope, they belong to the provider. They reside on the providers servers/harddrives. The provider does have a legal legal obligation to not only retain that information, but if it finds that a subscriber is using their services for illicit uses (child porn, ect.), to report and turn over any information they may have in their custody.

“The phone records and web history probably count as metadata which has no legal protection.”

They belong to the provider who has the choice to either turn them over or demand a warrant.

Either way, when L.E. comes looking for data, they will generally have a warrant. One that is Federal/State/FISA approved.

Hell, even Charles provider is subject to this.

650 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:58:17pm

re: #644 triple

Why can’t you answer that question?

651 Kragar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:58:31pm

OK, I’m out. I’ve hit my derp limit for the day.

652 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:58:37pm

re: #650 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Why can’t you answer that question?

Ooooo! Ooooo! I know this one!

653 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:58:52pm

re: #651 Kragar

OK, I’m out. I’ve hit my derp limit for the day.

You did good, Kragar. You were in rare form tonight.

654 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:59:00pm

re: #644 triple

America’s moral authority.

Meanwhile, Pussy Riot was unavailable for comment.

655 ObserverArt  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 3:59:14pm

re: #626 Kragar

What exactly has the NSA stolen? Please cite examples.

His sanity.

But I give him credit for the god-like hyperbole and dripping drama shouted from the highest mountain top.

656 GoatLord  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:00:09pm

Why not both?

657 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:00:11pm

I haz pizza.

658 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:00:32pm

re: #656 GoatLord

Why not both?

Why not zoidberg?

659 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:01:03pm

re: #658 triple

Why not zoidberg?

re: #650 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Why can’t you answer that question?

660 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:01:19pm

re: #603 triple

I’m whatever I want to be. It’s a free country, something LGF apparently forgot.

Lets see first a conservative, then a liberal and now a socialist. Want to try for martian next? After all, it’s a free country.

661 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:01:28pm

re: #644 triple

America’s moral authority.

After 8 years of Dubya, and decades of abuses before then?

Pull the other one. The US has been involved in all kind of sordid doings both domestic and foreign for a long time. That we’re still better than most of the rest of the world doesn’t mean much, since that is a very low bar to clear.

IMO, the US is presently doing below average with respect to its moral authority, but the NSA non-issue doesn’t factor into that assessment at all.

662 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:01:42pm

re: #642 triple

Stop making me feel like I’m living in a bad spy novel.

Stop making alex jones right. He’s a douchebag and doesn’t deserve to be.

Here’s a thought;
Stop listening to Alex Jones and maybe you wont feel so persecuted.

663 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:02:13pm

re: #662 blueraven

Here’s a thought;
Stop listening to Alex Jones and maybe you wont be so persecuted.

Come see the violence inherent in the sysadmin!

664 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:02:23pm

re: #603 triple

I’m whatever I want to be. It’s a free country, something LGF apparently forgot.

Can I be a doctor, then?

665 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:02:26pm

re: #642 triple

Sure.

Here’s how to fix: Stop doing evil. Stop prosecuting those who call you on it. Stop doing evil because “terrorism”. That’s called “letting the terrorists win.”

Stop making me feel like I’m living in a bad spy novel.

Stop making alex jones right. He’s a douchebag and doesn’t deserve to be.

Here are some things I think should happen but won’t.

-Religion no longer is influential.
-Money gets out of politics.
-Term limits.
-We stop gerrymandering.
-We stop voting rights abuses. By forcing ID, we disenfranchise more than we gain from fraud. Voting is a chore, no one does it twice for fun.
-Legalize drugs. I’ve never smoked in my life, but does anyone think prison is the answer? Rehab, people. AA. There are ways to fix this without minimum sentences for nonviolent offenders.
-Free health care. I have it in MA. It’s pretty awesome. Canadians seem to like it.
-Metric system

Why metric system and why term limits?

It seems to me that most people who put forward the idea of term limits are only putting a bandaid on an amputation and all it would really result in is that the lobbyists have more years of experience at their job than the congressional people they are trying to influence.

Honsetly there have been much worse things for America than the Great Depression ending, World War Two winning, superpower status establishing four terms that FDR got elected to.

666 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:03:01pm

Stop making alex jones right.

Full stop.

667 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:04:03pm

re: #666 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Stop making alex jones right.

Full stop.

We should bring back the rotating title just for this.

668 blueraven  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:04:09pm

re: #666 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Stop making alex jones right.

Full stop.

End the Fed!

669 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:04:24pm

re: #665 jamesfirecat

Small correction. FDR was elected POTUS 4 times, not five.

670 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:04:24pm

We have a dudebrony.

671 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:07:01pm

re: #664 GeneJockey

Can I be a doctor, then?

They told me I could be anything…

672 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:07:16pm

re: #662 blueraven

Here’s a thought;
Stop listening to Alex Jones and maybe you wont be so persecuted.

I don’t listen to any talk radio. (anymore) I was just making a point that obama is making the crazies look not so crazy. And that’s kind of messed up!

673 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:07:50pm

re: #668 blueraven

End the Fed!

End the Fred!

674 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:08:43pm

I’m not believing this for one fucking minute:

Yahoo beats Google in traffic for first time since 2011

money.cnn.com

That means there are more idiots in this country than I realized. I mean, have you ever read the comments over there?

675 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:08:45pm

re: #672 triple

I was just making a point that obama is making the crazies look not so crazy.

Not working in your case.

676 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:08:55pm

re: #470 triple

Depends on your perspective, I guess.

My perspective is the american people, what’s yours? The NSA?

You need to wrap yourself in the flag and start carrying a cross now. Otherwise the full effect is lost.

677 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:10:21pm

re: #672 triple

I don’t listen to any talk radio. (anymore) I was just making a point that obama is making the crazies look not so crazy. And that’s kind of messed up!

Dude, it’s the crazies who are telling you that Obama’s making them look not crazy.

Again, for the N+1th time - what evidence do you have for what you claim? Because neither Greenwald nor anyone else has produced such evidence.

678 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:10:46pm

re: #676 Feline Fearless Leader

You need to wrap yourself in the flag and start carrying a cross now. Otherwise the full effect is lost.

What is it about the crazies that it’s always Jesus and George Washington?

679 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:10:50pm

re: #665 jamesfirecat

Why metric system and why term limits?

It seems to me that most people who put forward the idea of term limits are only putting a bandaid on an amputation and all it would really result in is that the lobbyists have more years of experience at their job than the congressional people they are trying to influence.

Honsetly there have been much worse things for America than the Great Depression ending, World War Two winning, superpower status establishing four terms that FDR got elected to.

Base 10 is just better. It just is.

Do you know why the house is so crazy and the senate.. not so much?

It’s because reps get 2 years. And then.. re-election!

So everything they do is aimed at satisfying the base. The crazy, religious, irrational, base.

There’s one fix to this.. longer terms. Makes sense. But that’s not that democratic! If one guy sucks, he’s unaccountable.

My solution.. one term and you’re done. You run on a platform, and then you do that platform. There’s no such thing as a career politician anymore. Sure, you can run for president or senate, but you’re not ruining our democracy for it.

680 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:11:46pm

re: #678 thedopefishlives

What is it about the crazies that it’s always Jesus and George Washington?

Napoleon is so y’know..French.

681 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:11:53pm

re: #676 Feline Fearless Leader

You need to wrap yourself in the flag and start carrying a cross now. Otherwise the full effect is lost.

With someone in the background humming “America the Beautiful”.

682 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:13:05pm

re: #679 triple

Base 10 is just better. It just is.

You only say that because you haven’t lost any fingers. Try running a bandsaw for a couple years and see how you feel THEN!
//

683 Carlos Danger  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:13:09pm

re: #674 Justanotherhuman

I’m not believing this for one fucking minute:

Yahoo beats Google in traffic for first time since 2011

For two minutes after 2:00AM on a Tuesday?

684 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:13:17pm

re: #680 Decatur Deb

Napoleon is so y’know..French.

NTTAWWT.

685 EPR-radar  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:13:43pm

re: #679 triple

Oh come on. The House is crazier than the Senate because 1) House districts are (usually) smaller than entire states, and 2) Most house districts have adjustable boundaries which are often used to make incumbent seats safe for the majority party.

686 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:14:46pm

Moving upstairs.

687 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:15:09pm

re: #685 EPR-radar

Oh come on. The House is crazier than the Senate because 1) House districts are (usually) smaller than entire states, and 2) Most house districts have adjustable boundaries which are often used to make incumbent seats safe for the majority party.

True. This is under the assumption districts are laid out by a computer or something sensible, and not by the people who stand to benefit from it, which is literally insane.

But when you have people going “sign the pledge not to raise the debt ceiling”, or they’ll fund your opponent in re-election, wouldn’t it be nice to just say to these fools, “dude, fuck you, im not running. fuck yo pledge.”

688 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:15:21pm

re: #450 triple

If you found yourself in possession of information that clearly uncovered a massive crime by our government.. and you needed to publish this information.. knowing what you know, would you publish?

I wouldn’t.

Snowden did, and that’s why he’s the goddamn batman.

#1: Snowden in no way uncovered a massive crime by our government.
#2: He didn’t publish, he went to a blowhard ex-pat living in an exclusive gated community in Brazil and said ex-pat already had grievances against this government because he’s a tax cheat.
#3: DERP!!11!!

689 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:17:11pm

re: #679 triple

Base 10 is just better. It just is.

Do you know why the house is so crazy and the senate.. not so much?

It’s because reps get 2 years. And then.. re-election!

So everything they do is aimed at satisfying the base. The crazy, religious, irrational, base.

There’s one fix to this.. longer terms. Makes sense. But that’s not that democratic! If one guy sucks, he’s unaccountable.

My solution.. one term and you’re done. You run on a platform, and then you do that platform. There’s no such thing as a career politician anymore. Sure, you can run for president or senate, but you’re not ruining our democracy for it.

Honestly I don’t mind there being career politicians, if a person wants to devote their life to serving the public good more power to them. it’s not like your idea would get rid of them, it would just cause them to play musical chairs, governor here, mayor there, congressman here, senator there,,,

Honestly why not longer terms with the caveat of making recal elections harder to start but also taken more seriously because of it? That way congressmen would not need to start running for election again on the day they get their foot in the door but by the same token if one screws up badly enough or betrays the platform they ran on then they can get thrown out by the constiancy.

690 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:17:47pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb
Machine-assisted analysis of this thread indicates the chances of useful discussion is:
No way in Hell.



Tell the guys in the Babbage bin that their model is revalidated. You can end the run, now.

691 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:18:14pm

re: #457 triple

Maybe if you wanted whistleblowers to not run to foreign countries, the best idea might be to not prosecute whistleblowing with the prospect of the death penalty?

JUST A THOUGHT GUYS

“GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARDS FOR ANYONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE A WHISTLEBLOWER EVEN IF THEY ARE JUST THIEVES!!!”

692 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:19:21pm

re: #687 triple

True. This is under the assumption districts are laid out by a computer or something sensible, and not by the people who stand to benefit from it, which is literally insane.

But when you have people going “sign the pledge not to raise the debt ceiling”, or they’ll fund your opponent in re-election, wouldn’t it be nice to just say to these fools, “dude, fuck you, im not running. fuck yo pledge.”

Not really because those idiots would just vote against the next person from your party who runs for election /the person with views furthest from you.

You may not be in danger, but your parties future in that electoral area can still be at the mercy of extremists.

693 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:19:33pm

re: #691 Backwoods_Sleuth

“GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARDS FOR ANYONE WHO CLAIMS TO BE A WHISTLEBLOWER EVEN IF THEY ARE JUST THIEVES!!!”

If he was a thief, why broadcast it?

Just go to fucking russia and sell it to their intelligence. Quietly. Don’t fucking tell everyone.

694 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:20:29pm

re: #693 triple

If he was a thief, why broadcast it?

Just go to fucking russia and sell it to their intelligence. Quietly. Don’t fucking tell everyone.

Because he’s a moron.
He didn’t even plan his escape route. Otherwise, he’d have been in Iceland by the time it broke, not freaking Hong Kong.

695 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:21:16pm

re: #692 jamesfirecat

Not really because those idiots would just vote against the next person from your party who runs for election /the person with views furthest from you.

You may not be in danger, but your parties future in that electoral area can still be at the mercy of extremists.

I’d say whatever, good luck voting for the opposing party you literally hate to death.

Extremists aren’t going to turn tail and vote for liz warren. They’re going to suck it up and vote their party, because that’s what they do. It’s just no one has the balls to actually stand up to them and show them they’re worthless.

696 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:21:59pm

Also, have you wondered why you haven’t heard directly from Snowden?
Wonder why…

697 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:22:34pm

re: #470 triple

Depends on your perspective, I guess.

My perspective is the american people, what’s yours? The NSA?

I’m an American person…been part of the larger American People for more than 60 years…so what’s your point?

698 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:23:33pm

re: #693 triple

If he was a thief, why broadcast it?

Just go to fucking russia and sell it to their intelligence. Quietly. Don’t fucking tell everyone.

ummm…he did that, and told everyone every step of the way…
oh wait…GG and Assange did that…

699 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:23:39pm

re: #679 triple

Base 10 is just better. It just is.

Do you know why the house is so crazy and the senate.. not so much?

It’s because reps get 2 years. And then.. re-election!

So everything they do is aimed at satisfying the base. The crazy, religious, irrational, base.

There’s one fix to this.. longer terms. Makes sense. But that’s not that democratic! If one guy sucks, he’s unaccountable.

My solution.. one term and you’re done. You run on a platform, and then you do that platform. There’s no such thing as a career politician anymore. Sure, you can run for president or senate, but you’re not ruining our democracy for it.

Any advocate of term limits probably doesn’t live in a place that imposed them. I can tell you for damned sure they really suck, and end up doing exactly the opposite of what people expect. Instead of seasoned, experienced legislators who can cut a deal, you end up with a bunch of ideological clonws whose rigid thinking precludes compromise, and who have NO FUCKING CLUE how to write a good law, so they let ALEC or some other lobbying group write them.

California has been the guinea pig for that, and a whole bunch of other brilliant ideas, and the only thing that’s saved us is the GOP becoming SO EXTREME that they can no longer hold onto even 1/3 of the Assembly seats.

700 dog philosopher  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:24:07pm

redacted humor

NSA comedian: Take my ███████████████, please.

701 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:24:10pm

re: #694 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Because he’s a moron.
He didn’t even plan his escape route. Otherwise, he’d have been in Iceland by the time it broke, not freaking Hong Kong.

Or maybe your theory doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

If he wanted to sell info, why NOT the launch codes? Why not weapon designs, defense info, secret research?

Instead he tells everyone the NSA is all up in your facebooks.

That’s not useful information to russia, it’s just embarrassing. And honestly? Russia is russia. They already knew.

702 Gus  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:25:16pm

Oh boy. Going up.

703 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:25:29pm

re: #700 dog philosopher

redacted humor

NSA comedian: Take my ███████████████, please.

Emoprog comedian: “Take my life,, please.”

704 thedopefishlives  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:25:53pm

re: #701 triple

Or maybe your theory doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

If he wanted to sell info, why NOT the launch codes? Why not weapon designs, defense info, secret research?

Instead he tells everyone the NSA is all up in your facebooks.

That’s not useful information to russia, it’s just embarrassing.

Maybe because, oh, I don’t know, he didn’t have them? What a novel thought!

705 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:26:21pm

re: #492 piratedan

and so it was written, let him ascend into the circle of the Knights of Derp

needs a SHRUBBERY!!!!

706 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:26:28pm

re: #701 triple

He revealed to the Chinese ops against them.
Also, why flee to actual fucking police states?

707 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:27:21pm

re: #695 triple

I’d say whatever, good luck voting for the opposing party you literally hate to death.

Extremists aren’t going to turn tail and vote for liz warren. They’re going to suck it up and vote their party, because that’s what they do. It’s just no one has the balls to actually stand up to them and show them they’re worthless.

Sorry I should have said “the person whose views most match theirs” not “least in common with yours” that was poorly said.

The problem with American politics is that right now one of our political parties has NO chance at all at getting elected without the support of crazy extremists. Sane republicans are vastly out numbered by sane democrats (here value of “sane” meaning has political believes that fall within the Overton window of the Clinton years) and so to have any chance of getting elected must gain the support of crazy replubicans of whome there are a lot more (they are certainly at least much more vocal) than crazy democrats.


This fever will not be broken till they get to run a crazy republican for president and get thoroughly crushed at the polls and till that happens anything else is just trying to treat the symptoms not the disease,


On that note, what do you think of the filibuster?

708 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:27:49pm

re: #706 Pavlovian Hive Mind

He revealed to the Chinese ops against them.
Also, why flee to actual fucking police states?

Avoiding extradition, obviously.

709 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:27:56pm

And you can be damned sure the Chinese and Russians downloaded the entirety of what he had.

710 GeneJockey  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:28:04pm

re: #701 triple

Or maybe your theory doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

If he wanted to sell info, why NOT the launch codes? Why not weapon designs, defense info, secret research?

Instead he tells everyone the NSA is all up in your facebooks.

That’s not useful information to russia, it’s just embarrassing.

How about because he didn’t HAVE ANY launch codes, weapon designs, defense info, or secret research?

You don’t go to Russia with the stolen classified information you want, you go to Russia with the stolen classified information you have.

BTW, if you don’t think that insight into American intelligence gathering capabilities is valuable to Russia, you’re even stupider and more naive than you’ve made yourself appear, and I’d have thought that was not physically possible.

711 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:28:35pm

re: #497 triple

2+2=4. Do I own that information?

Can I sell it?

It’s not the same thing as copyright. I understand copyright.

We’re talking about knowledge. Knowledge that our government is spying on americans. You can’t own that.

o.m.g.
You DID get your law degree from Liberty U….

712 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:29:51pm

re: #707 jamesfirecat

As it’s currently used in congress is a joke.

I say it’s fine if you actually do it texas style.

713 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:31:22pm

re: #712 triple

As it’s currently used in congress is a joke.

I say it’s fine if you actually do it texas style.

And Texas is still controlled by the crazies and that filibuster did squat to stop the bill from passing.

714 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:31:53pm

re: #501 urbanmeemaw

Backwoods: Do you still live in Cincinnati (if you don’t mind sharing that)?

About 90 miles away to the east now.
Might have to make a trip back home for Oktoberfest since George Takei will be parade marshal and lead the chicken dance this year!

715 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:32:21pm

re: #714 Backwoods_Sleuth

About 90 miles away to the east now.
Might have to make a trip back home for Oktoberfest since George Takei will be parade marshal and lead the chicken dance this year!

Oh my.

716 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:33:14pm

re: #713 Pavlovian Hive Mind

And Texas is still controlled by the crazies and that filibuster did squat to stop the bill from passing.

That’s a different set of problems. The bullshit they pulled was incredible.

And for the record, it worked the first time.

717 Carlos Danger  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:34:38pm

re: #198 blueraven

True, but one President can certainly poison the well…cough*NIXON

Imagine if some people got their wish and got their President Scott Walker.

This story is going to have resonance for people considering half the human population lives in places where the the government does abuse information. The US legal system looks like a joke sometimes, but it’s worlds ahead of what it could be.

718 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:35:21pm

re: #712 triple

As it’s currently used in congress is a joke.

I say it’s fine if you actually do it texas style.

See, this I can agree on, I am fine with the filibuster being used as a tool to draw attentions to an issue that might get sweat under the rug, it should not be used to allow the majority in the Senate the power to easily thwart the majority on everyday matters.

719 AlexRogan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:39:34pm

re: #171 triple

I have. (my reaction: lol) Also, why do you assume I’m conservative? I’m probably more liberal than you.

So, you’re a glibertarian dudebro.

Gotcha.

721 triple  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:43:45pm

re: #719 AlexRogan

So, you’re a glibertarian dudebro.

Gotcha.

It doesn’t matter what I am, or what I do. I’m just some guy on a blog. It matters what your government is doing. You should probably focus on that.

722 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 4:51:01pm

re: #592 thedopefishlives

I’m sorry, did I miss something? The headline of the article: IS BUILDING. How much data is stored in that data center currently? I bet I could fit it all on a single finger.

It will be one of the biggest datacenters in the world..Totally awesome..Have you ever seen the Facebook DataCenter..It makes me drool just thinking of the rows and rows of frames filled with disk drives and servers..Love to work there..
We, as a nation, do this to protect America..Not to discovery Triples bank account numbers or who he buys his drugs from..
But lest we not beware of that power and we must continue in smart and progressive protections to US citizens..He have to stay on top of this issue by oversight and updated laws.
And those acting in over wrought and far reaching accusations only muddle the goals and requirements of lawful intellegence gathering.
If those were Snowdens goals he could have sent a anonymous report to his Congressman and Senator and see what results come from it and proceed with legal council at that point.
Forever and ever Snowden will always have the stink of Benedict Arnold on him and no amount of data can save him.

723 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:01:01pm

re: #712 triple

As it’s currently used in congress is a joke.

I say it’s fine if you actually do it texas style.

Bull crap. Texas Legislature filibuster rules are a damn joke.

The Texas-style model of the filibuster has some insane restrictions placed on it - like the fact that the person filibustering cannot as much as lean on something for physical support - and is subject to the whims of the Chair as to whether the speaker has broken a rule that would allow them to stop it at a moment’s notice.

That isn’t to say that the revised US Senate rules for filibustering are any better. Being able to hold the floor by just SAYING you are going to filibuster is just stupid.

724 AlexRogan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:04:36pm

re: #262 triple

Snowden is an american hero, and it’s kind of sad the government has made you believe he isn’t.

re: #274 triple

To get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, one must make “an especially meritorious contribution to the security or national interests of the United States, world peace, cultural or other significant public or private endeavors”..

Note it doesn’t say “contribution to the american government”, or “the current administration”.. it says the United States.

I believe Snowden, while pissing off the current administration, and the NSA, has done the United States, and it’s people, a huge favor. He spoke up, he stood up on the bus, and he did something he wasn’t supposed to. If that’s not american, I don’t know what is.

re: #278 triple

The reason he’s a hero is half the country hates him for it.

He’s basically batman.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha…..

Wait…you’re serious?

*headdesk*

725 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:05:38pm

re: #723 RadicalModerate

Bull crap. Texas Legislature filibuster rules are a damn joke.

The Texas-style model of the filibuster has some insane restrictions placed on it - like the fact that the person filibustering cannot as much as lean on something for physical support - and is subject to the whims of the Chair as to whether the speaker has broken a rule that would allow them to stop it at a moment’s notice.

That isn’t to say that the revised US Senate rules for filibustering are any better. Being able to hold the floor by just SAYING you are going to filibuster is just stupid.

The Senate rules are a kick in the nuts, and the Texas ones a kick to the shin. The former is so bad the later almost feels enjoyable.

726 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:10:22pm

re: #586 triple

wired.com

You’re right. Data storage - not my thing. But don’t worry - they’re probably only storing several exabytes.

And apparently mankind has only ever made 5 exabytes of information prior to 2003? Huh.

Not your thing and you really don’t know what you’re talking about, but you KNOW it’s a FACT!

oh, I might be old but I remember how is was to be 20-something and know EVERYTHING.
If you’re lucky, you’ll live long enough eventually look back on all of this and shudder that the internets are 4ever and hope that no one then knows the you of now.

727 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:12:41pm

re: #603 triple

I’m whatever I want to be. It’s a free country, something LGF apparently forgot.

it’s ok for you but not for the LGF community.
got it.

#derphurrderp

728 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:14:47pm

re: #606 Kragar

You know, talks to a lot of people, engages with people at parties, attends a lot of events to know whats going on in the community.

Socialist.
/

whine and cheese…you forgot that part of the party scene…

729 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:27:50pm

re: #715 Pavlovian Hive Mind

I usually don’t go to Oktoberfest but may need to make an exception. Love George!

730 AlexRogan  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 5:40:55pm

re: #335 triple

So you’re upset snowden illegally gained access to NSA documents, but you’re not upset the NSA has illegally been gaining access to the communications of millions of americans..

Priorities. Seriously.

I don’t give a shit about the government. I give a shit about it’s people.

Let me give you a little primer in electronic communications: ever since the advent of the telegraph, the assumption that was made is that NOTHING sent electronically is 100% secure. Computers and the Internet did not change this.

As for your “I don’t give a shit about the government. I give a shit about it’s people” comment, I think you’re full of it. To me, you and your fellow brogressives care about “the people” just as long as you can use them to bludgeon “the government” with them.

731 Lancelot Link  Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:37:47pm

re: #612 Charles Johnson

You walked into the comments like you were walking onto a yacht…

732 SnowdenBaggerVance  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 7:15:22am

re: #20 triple

link me. Does charles ever not carry water for the NSA?

Glenn, is that you? The socky thing doesn’t work dude.

733 triple  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:41:34am

I want to know what my government is up to. For the people, by the people.

And that’s where this NSA thing gets crazy. Yes - it’s legal - but those laws were made in secret, upheld by a secret court, and then new extensions of their power were granted.. in secret. And now they’re issuing secret court orders to companies like google and lavabit, which those companies can’t disclose, nor can they even disclose they’re fighting a secret court order, because they’re expected to keep it secret, too.

This is kind of insane.

Democracies need laws, and secrets. That’s understood.

The problem is when a democracy makes its laws without the full knowledge of its own people, and defends those laws in a secret court.

That’s not democracy, that’s a shadow government run by the executive branch. And it’s not legal, really. It’s a constitutional workaround.


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