The Man Who Made the World Safer: The Story of Plutonium Mountain

Nuclear hero
LGF • Views: 21,505

Beginning in 1949 and spanning a period of 40 years, the Soviet Union carried out more than 450 nuclear tests in the isolated steppes of eastern Kazakhstan. In 1989, when the socialist state collapsed, the Russians pulled out and left the Kazakhs to their own devices—literally. Enough fissile material for a dozen or more nuclear weapons was left behind in mountain tunnels and bore holes, virtually unguarded and vulnerable to scavengers, rogue states, or potential terrorists.

In a remarkable and highly secretive feat of collaboration among the United States, Russia, and Kazakhstan, engineers and nuclear scientists from the three countries spent 15 years and $150 million to secure many of the tunnels and test areas at the sprawling Semipalatinsk Test Site. Siegfried S. Hecker, a senior fellow at Stanford University’s Center for International Security and Cooperation, launched the project while director of the Los Alamos National Laboratory. He used his personal ties with Russian scientists to prod them into working with the Americans and Kazakhs after a visit to the test site in 1998 left him stunned by the lack of security and the presence of scavengers.

It was one of the greatest nuclear nonproliferation stories never told, until the White House and Pentagon revealed some details in 2012, which David Hoffman and Eben Harrel of Harvard’s Belfer Center made public over the weekend in an in-depth report, Plutonium Mountain. In October 2012, officials from Kazakhstan, Russia, and the United States dedicated a monument that simply reads: The world has become safer.

In this interview, Hecker—who teaches the popular Stanford class Technology and National Security with former Secretary of Defense William J. Perry—speaks with the Bulletin about the extraordinary Semipalatinsk mission and talks about next steps to secure the site.

More: Into Thin Air: The Story of Plutonium Mountain

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274 comments
1 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 9:00:46pm

*GASP* They kept it secret?

How DARE the authoritarian bastards do such a thing—we must have 100% transparency 100% of the time—America is finished! //

2 Pythagoras  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 9:07:57pm

I remember back then a lot of folks worried about Russia’s nuclear material. The best suggestion I read was that we “burn” it as fuel in reactors. Of course, that may not be feasible. Details, details.

3 Kragar  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 9:58:07pm

Ok, figured a way to fix what I wrote last night, so I can focus on the next big part.

4 bratwurst  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 9:58:14pm
5 Kragar  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:05:07pm

re: #4 bratwurst

In the original Batman script for Michael Keaton, the line was supposed to be “I am the Knight.” Keaton made the change to “I’m Batman” on set during filming.

6 Lidane  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:10:26pm

re: #4 bratwurst

I’m confused why they didn’t just cast Joseph Gordon-Levitt. The last Bale film pretty much sets him up for the part. WTF.

As usual, DC is being weird about their movies.

7 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:11:43pm

OUTRAGE!!!! The rights of scavengers shall not be abridged!!!!

8 Kragar  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:18:17pm

re: #6 Lidane

I’m confused why they didn’t just cast Joseph Gordon-Levitt. The last Bale film pretty much sets him up for the part. WTF.

As usual, DC is being weird about their movies.

Depends on if they plan to continue the Bale version of Gotham or start from scratch.

9 Mark Lass  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:29:39pm

“Japanese artist Isao Hashimoto has created a beautiful, undeniably scary time-lapse map of the 2053 nuclear explosions which have taken place between 1945 and 1998, beginning with the Manhattan Project’s “Trinity” test near Los Alamos and concluding with Pakistan’s nuclear tests in May of 1998. This leaves out North Korea’s two alleged nuclear tests in this past decade (the legitimacy of both of which is not 100% clear).”

Youtube Video

10 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:20:02pm

He he stealing this from somewhere…

World renowned psychologist Dr. Christopher Zimmermann has developed a classification scheme for people who suffer from ODS.

Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) Classification Scheme

Stage 1 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Early symptoms include subtle, low level criticisms of Obama’s “leadership” abilities. A simple understanding of separation of powers and what Obama can/can not do is enough to reverse most ailments.

Stage 2 Obama Derangement Syndrome
At this stage, attacks on the President begin to take on a nonsensical element such as criticism of Obama playing Golf, taking a vacation with his family, or eating mustard on his hamburger. The tone used by stage 2 sufferers mimics that of a gossip tabloid or an unhappy teenager’s blog.

Stage 3 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As the disease progresses, deeply held anger, resentment, and fear manifests itself. Those afflicted with ODS-3 are unable to call the President by his name. They use incendiary monikers such as Barry, Obummer, Zero. The derangement begins to branch out to Obama’s family. Even mentioning Michelle Obama’s campaign to encourage healthy lifestyles is enough to cause hysterical fits of rage.

11 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:20:22pm
Stage 4 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Opposition to Obama becomes not just predictable, but a force of habit. Those afflicted use phrases like, “Anyone but Obama.” The diseased begin to take any position, so long as it is not Obama’s position. They begin to mock ideas like “hope” and “change” as naive, simply because Obama embodies them.


Stage 5 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As stage 5 ODS sets in, the assaults on the President’s character begin to imply he is evil at his core. The development of conspiracies that suggest Obama is knowingly executing an agenda that will harm America are commonplace. Questions like, “Is Obama A Bigger Threat Than Al Qaeda?” and “Obama: A Radical Leftist Who Seeks To Dismantle Capitalism?” are common place.

Stage 6 Obama Derangement Syndrome
This stage is mostly reserved for birthers and bigots. People who have developed ODS-6 are offended by Barack Obama’s very existence. The subtle racial undertones, kept concealed in the previous stages of the disease, can no longer be contained. They find it impossible to believe that a black man could be elected President of “their” country, despite the overwhelming evidence that the President was born in America.

12 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:41:43pm

I gotta give this republican some credit, but I don’t think his party is listening.

Medicare for all is GOP’s best bet

While hospitals in Missouri are having their reimbursement cut under the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), “red” leaning states are still trying to figure out whether or not to fully implement the law.

As pointed out in “What’s next? Information about the Affordable Care Act is in short supply in Missouri” in the News-Leader Aug. 11, Missouri has been among the most vehement in its opposition to implementation, going so far as legally prohibiting state employees from assisting.

Hospitals that treat the poor in disproportionate numbers are having their Medicare reimbursements cut under the ACA. Before the Supreme Court made Medicaid expansion voluntary, the law assumed that under the ACA these hospitals would see a decrease in medically indigent patients who would instead be covered by Medicaid.

In the short term, we Republicans need to wake up and support implementation of Obamacare in so far as it expands coverage of insurance to our low-income citizens at little cost to the state. The first three years of the expansion would be paid for 100 percent by the feds. After that, there would be a gradual tapering down to 90 percent federal support.

13 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:44:23pm

ROFL

No refunds after Glenn Beck conference moves from Ozarks to KC

A conference featuring firebrand radio personality Glenn Beck has been moved from the Ozarks to Kansas City.

But if you cannot make it and you are looking for a quick refund — well, tough.

Organizers of Covenant America say tickets purchased will not be refunded. The tickets run $70 per individual, and $50 for seniors, students and veterans.

An email sent to those who have purchased tickets point to the conference’s Terms and Conditions. The same message was also posted on the conference’s website.

“All ticket sales are considered a donation. Therefore, there are no ticket refunds,” the terms and conditions say.

14 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:47:45pm

All your threadz belong to mee!!!!!!

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Aug 22, 2013 11:52:23pm

Just to let the GOP know that Great World leaders share their views on gays:

Robert Mugabe: “Homosexuality destroys nations”

16 Kragar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 12:29:42am

re: #15 Sol Berdinowitz

Just to let the GOP know that Great World leaders share their views on gays:

Robert Mugabe: “Homosexuality destroys nations”

You’re talking about people who think Pinochet did a good job.

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 1:04:55am

re: #16 Kragar

You’re talking about people who think Pinochet did a good job.

And Mussolini made the trains run on time…

18 BongCrodny  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 2:56:26am

re: #10 Amory Blaine

He he stealing this from somewhere…

Stage 7 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Ben Shapiro.

19 BongCrodny  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 3:01:44am

re: #15 Sol Berdinowitz

Just to let the GOP know that Great World leaders share their views on gays:

Robert Mugabe: “Homosexuality destroys nations”

Name one.

20 BongCrodny  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 3:14:04am

Courtesy of our friends at Balloon Juice:

Thanks, Canada

21 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 3:17:29am

re: #19 BongCrodny

Name one.

Sodom and Gomorrah.

So there…

22 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:30:01am

re: #18 BongCrodny

Stage 7 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Ben Shapiro.

Stage 8 (Terminal) Obama Derangement Syndrome
Prudence
#LNYHBT
Anyone with the BENGHAZI!!!11!!! Twibbon on their avi.

23 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:39:33am

re: #22 Vicious Babushka

Stage 8 (Terminal) Obama Derangement Syndrome
Prudence
#LNYHBT
Anyone with the BENGHAZI!!!11!!! Twibbon on their avi.

Stage 9 (cannot be classified under existing diagnostic standards) Obama Derangement Syndrome:

Suffered by: Various

Symptoms: Planning on moving to Russia, as those suffering from Stage 9 ODS consider Russia to be a bulwark of tolerance, freedom and liberty.

24 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:43:40am

re: #23 Dr Lizardo

Stage 9 (cannot be classified under existing diagnostic standards) Obama Derangement Syndrome:

Suffered by: Various

Symptoms: Planning on moving to Russia, as those suffering from Stage 9 ODS consider Russia to be a bulwark of tolerance, freedom and liberty.

Stage 9 is where the RWNJs and the Dudebros merge as one.

25 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:44:07am

Stage 9 example

26 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:49:30am

re: #24 Vicious Babushka

Stage 9 is where the RWNJs and the Dudebros merge as one.

Yep; the Dudebro/emoprog/moonbat/wingnut convergence.

I presume Stage 10 is where those suffering from the most severe case of ODS actually make the move to Russia - or other parts of the globe - and claim that in doing so, they are “seeking asylum from the fascistic policies of President Obama and the tyrannical US government” or some such twaddle.

27 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:51:09am

re: #26 Dr Lizardo

Yep; the Dudebro/emoprog/moonbat/wingnut convergence.

I presume Stage 10 is where those suffering from the most severe case of ODS actually make the move to Russia - or other parts of the globe - and claim that in doing so, they are “seeking asylum from the fascistic policies of President Obama and the tyrannical US government” or some such twaddle.

Very few people have actually done that, just Snowden and that Arizona family who got lost at sea.

28 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:53:10am

Snowden didn’t actually intend to move to Russia, he just ended up there as a result of not planning ahread.

29 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 4:58:29am

re: #27 Vicious Babushka

Very few people have actually done that, just Snowden and that Arizona family who got lost at sea.

Heh….the Arizona family who got lost at sea. Good lord, that’s illustrative of Stage 10 and as you pointed in #28, Snowden didn’t intend to emigrate to Russia, he just stuck there as a result of poor planning on his part.

I have to admit, I’m surprised I haven’t seen more Stage 10 - maybe it will increase in the near future, but it would likely still remain a small-scale phenomenon, as only those who could financially afford to make an international move - possibly with family in tow in some, if not many, cases - would attempt to do it. And by that, I certainly don’t mean that foolish family from Arizona, who like Snowden, planned poorly.

30 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:01:57am

re: #25 Vicious Babushka

Stage 9 example

[Embedded content]

This is news?

31 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:02:01am

This guy wins Teh Twitters:

32 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:02:27am

re: #28 Vicious Babushka

Snowden didn’t actually intend to move to Russia, he just ended up there as a result of not planning ahread.

Poor planning. Just like Chelsea. //

33 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:14:03am

Accuses. Heh.

34 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:15:33am
35 Amory Blaine  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:15:59am

Despite nearly 300 arrests, Capitol protest grows

Participation in the noontime Capitol protest against Gov. Scott Walker continued to crescendo Monday despite nearly four weeks of almost daily arrests for gathering in the rotunda without a permit.

New participants, many of them from local police and firefighters unions, said last Thursday’s arrest of a journalist, a Madison City Council member and a 14-year-old girl encouraged them to join the more than 2-year-old Solidarity Singalong.

“That to me was the last straw,” said Brian Austin, a Madison Police officer. “It just seemed absolutely absurd to me that this is happening in Wisconsin.”
Participants also reacted strongly to news that Capitol Police Chief David Erwin, who has overseen the recent crackdown on protesters, received a double-digit pay raise this year that required an end run around state civil service pay rules.

36 freetoken  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:19:54am

Fits well some of our favorite subjects:

Feeling Persecuted? You May Be Delusional.

37 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:34:19am

I see Hannity is letting out all the stops since his show has been cancelled, having Zimmerman on to to comment on the brutal killing in OK by these guys: heavy.com

If you shuffle through the murders reported on that site, you’ll find the family of 4, including an infant, in OK killed by a white man living w/them, and a number of others involving white people. Why didn’t Hannity and Zimmerman cover that one?

White people appear to be killing each other off at a much faster pace than Black people killing them, in spite of the hysteria over this murder which people are using to gin up their “race war” fantasies. That includes you, Zimmerman.

38 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:41:30am
39 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:42:57am
40 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:43:02am

re: #37 Justanotherhuman

Black people kill each other at a much higher rate than they kill whites, I guess the NRA solution would be to arm black people more heavily so they can better defend themselves against each other…

/

41 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:45:54am
42 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:47:04am

re: #41 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

There are revisionists waiting in the Ministry of Truth to do that, silly.

43 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:48:16am

McWhorter made a big mistake putting up one of his “tough love” pieces, using the Lane killing as a spring board:

ideas.time.com

With the Right going all in race-baiting the story he really should have known his audience wasn’t going to be the “black community,” or whoever he actually intended his message for, but instead the Stormfront set. He’s managed to get Time’s comment section filled with upvoted filth like this bigot:

capone.bigbadal.al849 Featured
17 hours ago
Blacks have to stop blaming whitey just because THEIR perverted BLACK subculture is soooooo totally ******-UP! The PROBLEM is YOU PEOPLE ……. YOU ….. PEOPLE!

22 Likes

capone.bigbadal.al849 Featured
17 hours ago
Segregate …….. give the nigs DE-troit, Chicongo and Martha’s Vineyards ……. black-on-black crime is a form of social attrition and progressive social Darwinism. Isn’t diversity just wonderful? ……. like Lord of the Flies meets Planet of the Apes. We all strive for lowest common denominator because of the perverted BLACK subculture ….. YO BABY!

13 Likes

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:49:14am

I see no issue in referring to Manning as male or female, as Bradley or Chelsea, as a he or a she. It was a male who was arrested and tried, that does not change retroactively, and I refuse to see it as relevant to anything this person said or did.

45 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:52:10am
46 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:53:30am
47 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:56:38am
48 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 5:58:47am
49 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:02:28am

re: #39 Vicious Babushka

Greenwald has got to be the biggest hyporcrite on the planet with this one, given the fact he never discloses his own varying conflicts of interest. He and all his PFF compatriots take turns writing articles at their respective media outlets promoting each other and commenting on one another’s stories without ever disclosing being on the board of their pro-uber-leaker, Manning-obsessed, Wikileaks-funding org. Every time they write about Assange, Wikileaks, Manning & Snowden it should be disclosed prominently that they’re all professional activists in that arena, just about as biased as anyone could be.

The Snowden story, they both said, was a battle they were waging together, a fight against powers of surveillance that they both believe are a threat to fundamental American liberties. … “We couldn’t believe just how momentous this occasion was,” Greenwald said. “When you read these documents, you get a sense of the breadth of them. It was a rush of adrenaline and ecstasy and elation. You feel you are empowered for the first time because there’s this mammoth system that you try and undermine and subvert and shine a light on — but you usually can’t make any headway, because you don’t have any instruments to do it — [and now] the instruments were suddenly in our lap.”

50 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:02:32am
51 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:02:40am

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

That’s the thing about hype, there’s always a backlash.

52 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:03:57am

re: #45 Gus

My list of Batman’s in order of preference:

1) Christian Bale
2) Michael Keaton
3) Adam West
4) Val Kilmer
5) George Clooney

The last person I’d think of as Batman? Ben Affleck.

It’s not the first superhero he’s attempted. He was Daredevil, and that’s where he met his wife Jennifer Garner. I just don’t think he’s the right guy for the part. He ruined the Jack Ryan character (the Tom Clancy hero, who was best played by Alec Baldwin; Harrison Ford was too old for the part).

53 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:06:05am

Affleck as Batman? Guys, it’s still too early in the day for jokes like that.

54 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:06:57am

re: #53 Targetpractice

Affleck as Batman? Guys, it’s still too early in the day for jokes like that.

Matt Damon as a friendly Joker who really doesn’t get too worked up about things.

55 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:07:20am

re: #50 Charles Johnson

There you go again. Thinking that responsible journalists would be responsible. Oh wait, it’s Greenwald we’re talking about, and responsibility and Greenwald are like oil and water. They don’t mix.

Laughable accusations about Foust ignore that the real problem is that Greenwald’s narrative keeps running up against reality. Greenwald’s response? He projects the faults on to others.

56 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:07:29am

Wait I’ve got it. Seriously guys this is the big money right here. I’m talking about Oscars that themselves are winning Oscars:

Eugene Levy as batman.

57 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:08:08am

What GG is flogging this am:

Kenneth Roth ‏@KenRoth 12m

Council of Europe presses UK to justify detention of & seizure of material from @GGreenwald partner Miranda. trib.al
Retweeted by Glenn Greenwald

The EUObserver, which is funded by the non-profit Adessium Foundation has gotten things wrong plenty of times before:

euobserver.com

58 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:08:26am

Samuel L. Jackson as Batman

59 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:09:10am

re: #54 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Matt Damon as a friendly Joker who really doesn’t get too worked up about things.

Kevin Smith as the Joker who just leans against a wall and smokes for the whole movie, with a break for exactly one line of dialogue.

60 freetoken  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:12:15am

re: #43 simoom

McWhorter can be quite tone deaf at times. A couple of years ago his embracing of creationists caused quite a bit of blowback.

The guy has writing skills beyond his skills of his BS-palate.

61 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:14:36am

Glenn Greenwald should have been choosen for Batman with Sirota as Robin.

62 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:15:26am

Affleck as Batman reminds me of how Nick Cage spent years saying he wanted to play Superman. There are just some people who, no matter how much they want it, you just can’t take seriously in certain movie roles.

Besides, there’s no way Affleck can make his voice sound like he’s gargling gravel like Bale can.

63 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:15:35am

re: #61 b.d.

Glenn Greenwald should have been choosen for Batman with Sirota as Robin.

Dudebroman

64 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:18:36am

Clearly this mock-up demonstrates Levy’s appropriateness for the role:

Image: Lm8U5HA.jpg

65 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:19:40am

re: #62 Targetpractice

Cage as Superman doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but Cage as Batman? That actually has some appeal. Cage can do on the edge characters pretty good - and his role as Big Daddy in Kick Ass shows that he could have been a respectable Batman (outfits were quite similar in fact).

66 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:20:33am

re: #61 b.d.

Glenn Greenwald should have been choosen for Batman with Sirota Snowden as Robin.

ftfy

67 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:21:20am

re: #35 Amory Blaine

Despite nearly 300 arrests, Capitol protest grows

Every one of those receiving tickets should plead not guilty and demand jury trials - which requires those officers giving the tickets to have to come to court and defend their unconstitutional actions.

68 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:21:29am

re: #65 lawhawk

Cage as Superman doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but Cage as Batman? That actually has some appeal. Cage can do on the edge characters pretty good - and his role as Big Daddy in Kick Ass shows that he could have been a respectable Batman (outfits were quite similar in fact).

“Could” being the operative word. Having seen the first Ghostrider film and read reviews of the second…yeah, Cage is hit-or-miss when it comes to serious action roles.

69 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:22:03am
70 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:24:31am

re: #69 Gus

[Embedded content]

Greenwald is concerned that someone is using his monkey for their organ grinder?

71 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:25:28am

re: #58 Vicious Babushka

Samuel L. Jackson as Batman

Keanu Reeves as Batman and Winona Rider as Robin…

72 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:26:14am

Oh and Johnny Depp as Joker ;)

73 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:27:14am

re: #72 William Barnett-Lewis

Oh and Johnny Depp as Joker ;)

Johnny Depp as both Batman and the Joker.

74 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:27:19am
75 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:27:25am

Tom Waits as Gordon.

76 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:28:18am

Hahaha, Greenwald thinks the Independent should answer to him?

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 1h

@oliver_wright What kind of source did you have? Why don’t you generally describe your source?

They have no obligation to do that. Actual reporters don’t have to “jump” when GG tells them to.

77 Political Atheist  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:29:37am

re: #38 Gus

[Embedded content]

Harvesting organs from the executed. Talk about inhumanity. First level is the facts of capitol punishment. China makes Texas look good. Then add taking organs…Easily on of the most profound & perilous unethical behaviors by any government.

I guess they take anything but the heart ‘cause this is as heartless as it gets.

78 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:30:10am
79 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:30:18am

re: #69 Gus

Reminds me of Jeremy’s write-up on how Greenwald published an article, interpreting/spinning what a fmr-FBI agent said on CNN during their Boston-bombing coverage, and he again never bothered to phone the guy:

jeremyduns.net

This closely echoes a claim that was made recently by a former FBI officer, Tim Clemente, in two interviews on CNN, which Glenn Greenwald wrote about last month in an article headlined ‘Are all telephone calls recorded and accessible to the US government?’.

This article is strikingly stark in its tone, with Greenwald stating that if Clemente’s remarks are true, they ‘define what a ubiquitous, limitless Surveillance State is’. He concluded the article by saying:

‘Mass surveillance is the hallmark of a tyrannical political culture. But whatever one’s views on that, the more that is known about what the US government and its surveillance agencies are doing, the better. This admission by this former FBI agent on CNN gives a very good sense for just how limitless these activities are.’

I called Clemente last night, and asked him about his comments, and Greenwald’s interpretation of them. He told me Greenwald had misunderstood: he hadn’t been claiming that the US government records all phone calls, but that phone companies do. They don’t listen to them, though, and they wipe them clean after some time, as they take up so much memory. In response to the FBI publicizing that Tsarnaev’s wife had called him after they had released a photograph of him as a suspect in the Boston bombing, Clemente was pointing out - while being careful not to give away state secrets - that this meant they had access to her phone company’s metadata. The fact she had made such a call could allow the FBI to obtain a warrant on suspicion of her involvement in the attack, and once they obtained that they would then be able to listen to recordings of calls from her phone.

None of this is anywhere in Greenwald’s piece - and it could have been, had he called Clemente, whose number I found on his consultancy website.

80 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:30:59am

From The Independent’s story:

contained in the leaked documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden.

So the stuff that was on Miranda’s computer made it to The Independent somehow?

Seems to be the least convoluted answer?

81 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:32:48am

Hasn’t it been a while since the last dead-thread, middle-of-the-night flounce? Guess we were due :)

82 danarchy  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:33:56am

re: #73 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Johnny Depp as both Batman and the Joker.

If you are going with the playing multiple characters route, let’s just have Eddie Murphy do the whole movie…

83 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:35:06am
84 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:36:44am
85 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:37:38am

We’re going to believe that the UK would jeopardize its own intel programs that don’t involve UK or US citizens at a listening post outside the UK all to discredit Snowden and Greenwald?

Why would they do such a thing?

Is Greenwald pushing a meme that there are rogue agents within the government (and he’s not above conflating US and UK for this purpose) that are willing to leak all kinds of information about sensitive programs that have nothing to do with the Snowden mess all to discredit Snowden or Greenwald.

That seems to be the only explanation of Greenwald’s latest nonsense.

That and he didn’t call the Independent to confirm details of Greenwald’s own bloviations about how the Independent came to publish its own story.

Shoddy reporter being shoddy. Again.

The takeaway from this is that Greenwald really doesn’t understand what he’s reporting about, and fills in the gaps in his knowledge with baseless suppositions, innuendo, and making stuff up.

86 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:39:02am

re: #83 Gus

That Independent artcile doesn’t make The Guardian or Glenn look very good at all. It would have been a good read without that stuff but having The Guardian look like they are now government stooges, now part of the secrecy loop, is pretty eye opening.

87 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:39:13am

re: #80 b.d.

From The Independent’s story:

So the stuff that was on Miranda’s computer made it to The Independent somehow?

I was under the impression that least portions of Snowden’s document cache are in a great many hands. The Guardian had a copy of some stuff, Greenwald of course, Poitras was on the byline by herself for some of the SPIEGEL stories so she has some, as does WaPo’s Gellman. Greenwald and Poitras have shared some portion with a Brazillian Paper and SPIEGEL (including things they said were too sensitive to publish). How about Wikileaks, considering they’ve had a staffer living with and planning with Snowden since Hong Kong? I’d be shocked if parts of Snowden’s document trove haven’t spread a great many places he didn’t specifically authorize, which obviously gives rise to new leakers using his material.

88 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:41:45am

re: #85 lawhawk

We’re going to believe that the UK would jeopardize its own intel programs that don’t involve UK or US citizens at a listening post outside the UK all to discredit Snowden and Greenwald?

Why would they do such a thing?

Is Greenwald pushing a meme that there are rogue agents within the government (and he’s not above conflating US and UK for this purpose) that are willing to leak all kinds of information about sensitive programs that have nothing to do with the Snowden mess all to discredit Snowden or Greenwald.

That seems to be the only explanation of Greenwald’s latest nonsense.

That and he didn’t call the Independent to confirm details of Greenwald’s own bloviations about how the Independent came to publish its own story.

Shoddy reporter being shoddy. Again.

The takeaway from this is that Greenwald really doesn’t understand what he’s reporting about, and fills in the gaps in his knowledge with baseless suppositions, innuendo, and making stuff up.

“Last night, the Independent — owned by Alexander Lebedev, a Russian oligarch and former politician…”

Which is subject to an update.

Aslo. Image: Vladimir_Putin_7_May_2002-4.jpg

89 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:42:22am

re: #87 simoom

I was under the impression that least portions of Snowden’s document cache are in a great many hands. The Guardian had a copy of some stuff, Greenwald of course, Poitras was on the byline by herself for some of the SPIEGEL stories so she has some, as does WaPo’s Gellman. Greenwald and Poitras have shared some portion with a Brazillian Paper and SPIEGEL (including things they said were too sensitive to publish). How about Wikileaks, considering they’ve had a staffer living with and planning with Snowden since Hong Kong? I’d be shocked if parts of Snowden’s document trove haven’t spread a great many places he didn’t specifically authorize, which obviously gives rise to new leakers using his material.

No kidding and not even bringing up any of The Independent’s sources they may have in China or in Russia.

Wink, wink.

90 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:42:22am
91 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:42:38am

Uh, it has to be Snowden himself.

92 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:42:58am

re: #87 simoom

How about Wikileaks, considering they’ve had a staffer living with and planning with Snowden since Hong Kong?

Answering my own question:

93 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:44:09am
94 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:44:24am

re: #92 simoom

Answering my own question:

[Embedded content]

Oh man. I’d give a brand new, crisp 5 dollar bill to see a fight between Assange and Greenwald.

95 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:44:37am

Mornin’ everyone…is it tyrannical in here or what?

96 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:45:05am

re: #94 b.d.

Oh man. I’d give a brand new, crisp 5 dollar bill to see a fight between Assange and Greenwald.

Cat fight!

97 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:47:12am
98 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:47:16am
99 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:48:22am

re: #98 Gus

4 seconds, bitch!

100 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:49:55am

re: #94 b.d.

Oh man. I’d give a brand new, crisp 5 dollar bill to see a fight between Assange and Greenwald.

More likely to see them high-fiving than fighting:

Greenwald said, half-jokingly, that if he was arrested, WikiLeaks would become the new traffic cop for publishing N.S.A. documents. “I would just say: ‘O.K., let me introduce you to my friend Julian Assange, who’s going to take my place. Have fun dealing with him.’ “

He laughed and pointed out that unfortunately, the government does not always take the smartest course of action. “If they were smart,” he said, “I would do it.”

But I get your point. Considering the size of their respective egos, it wouldn’t take much stepping on each others toes for their to be an epic meltdown.

101 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:51:05am

re: #99 Vicious Babushka

4 seconds, bitch!

:P

102 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:52:45am
103 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:55:43am
104 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:57:03am

Level 8 ODS:

105 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:58:19am

So let me get this straight - or at least straight as far as the story seems to have d/evolved (depending on your perspective)…

Snowden, GG, and Laura Poitras have had exclusive access to “HIGHLY ENCRYPTED”(so highly encrypted, GG bragged, that the US government couldn’t crack ‘em) stolen intelligence docs (some of which GG’s boyfriend lost to the UK who opened them in two days). And now we learn that Snowden’s info is pretty much just out there. Jesus…they treated this data like a new picture of Anthony Weiner’s dick only they had on their phones. First, I think Vladdy is going to have to have a little talk with Eddie about the conditions of his asylum. Next, watching GG try to get control of this story after it’s left the chute will be like watching Pee-Wee Herman steer wrestling.

Did Eddie also share the docs with Wikileaks? They’ve been his sugar daddy for a while now, and certainly he could trust THEM not to leak anything without his or Glenn’s knowledge. Is the FSB now selectively dropping stories into the media like small stones to watch the ripples?

Whatever happens, we know it will likely happen on Twitter because that is where GG is displaying his train wreck.

106 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:59:04am

re: #104 Vicious Babushka

Level 8 ODS:

In those 45 minutes he voted Democrat twice @foxnewshealth Ohio man comes back to life after being dead 45 minutes t.co
— Rep. Steve Stockman (@SteveWorks4You) August 23, 2013

But his brain stayed dead, so he will return to voting Republican once more.

107 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:59:41am

re: #100 simoom

More likely to see them high-fiving than fighting:

But I get your point. Considering the size of their respective egos, it wouldn’t take much stepping on each others toes for their to be an epic meltdown.

I’d rather deal with Assange - at least he’d dump everything at once instead of playing “look at me!” all the time. And a little hard time would be good for Greenwald.

108 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 6:59:52am

*FACE PALM*

109 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:00:07am

re: #105 darthstar

So let me get this straight - or at least straight as far as the story seems to have d/evolved (depending on your perspective)…

Snowden, GG, and Laura Poitras have had exclusive access to “HIGHLY ENCRYPTED”(so highly encrypted, GG bragged, that the US government couldn’t crack ‘em) stolen intelligence docs (some of which GG’s boyfriend lost to the UK who opened them in two days). And now we learn that Snowden’s info is pretty much just out there. Jesus…they treated this data like a new picture of Anthony Weiner’s dick only they had on their phones. First, I think Vladdy is going to have to have a little talk with Eddie about the conditions of his asylum. Next, watching GG try to get control of this story after it’s left the chute will be like watching Pee-Wee Herman steer wrestling.

Did Eddie also share the docs with Wikileaks? They’ve been his sugar daddy for a while now, and certainly he could trust THEM not to leak anything without his or Glenn’s knowledge. Is the FSB now selectively dropping stories into the media like small stones to watch the ripples?

Whatever happens, we know it will likely happen on Twitter because that is where GG is displaying his train wreck.

Pretty good but you left out the part where Glenn told the UK that they would pay and be sorry for wht they did to Miranda.

He threatened them and now this comes out. Coincidence?

110 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:00:41am

re: #82 danarchy

If you are going with the playing multiple characters route, let’s just have Eddie Murphy do the whole movie…

How about going that route, but using Malkovich?

111 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:01:20am

re: #102 Gus

Relevance?

112 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:01:30am

ROFL moonbats. I just saw someone commenting on a news story at FB trying to call President Obama the most right-wing POTUS in history.

Must be another child that got left behind in school. WTF.

113 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:02:03am

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

Sitting down with two NSA whistleblowers - who didn’t leak national security secrets, but who sought change within the system and proper channels.

That doesn’t describe Snowden at all.

Thanks David for once again admitting that Snowden’s a criminal and whose actions weren’t pure or motivated by uncovering NSA abuses.

Revealing details about NSA programs designed to go after foreign terrorists and bad guys generally isn’t an abuse of power. It’s what governments do.

114 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:02:43am
115 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:03:03am

re: #111 darthstar

Relevance?

Wikileaks being assholes (surprise!) in trying to smear Foust.

116 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:03:26am

re: #109 b.d.

Pretty good but you left out the part where Glenn told the UK that they would pay and be sorry for wht they did to Miranda.

He threatened them and now this comes out. Coincidence?

That’s a point best debated on the twitter, where GG is most likely to see it as it is his domain. :)

117 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:03:49am

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

It’s just distressing to realize all the good Sirota could do if his talents and energies were applied in the right direction. /

118 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:04:25am

Carbonated TV runs stories like this:

Bradley Manning Turned Down Lesser Sentence To Not Sell Out Julian Assange

carbonated.tv

Bradley/Chelsea Manning has his/her priorities, doncha know. I’m not being coy about using the double identity thing, as s/he is referred to ambiguously throughout the article.

I don’t think Chelsea is protecting herself very much when her first priority appears to be protecting someone else instead.

119 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:05:19am

re: #104 Vicious Babushka

Steve’s a funny guy….

//

120 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:05:32am

re: #118 Justanotherhuman

Carbonated TV runs stories like this:

Bradley Manning Turned Down Lesser Sentence To Not Sell Out Julian Assange

carbonated.tv

Bradley/Chelsea Manning has his/her priorities, doncha know. I’m not being coy about using the double identity thing, as s/he is referred to ambiguously throughout the article.

I don’t think Chelsea is protecting herself very much when her first priority appears to be protecting someone else instead.

But Julian Assange would sell out Brad/Chel in 3 seconds for an ice cream cone.

121 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:06:09am

re: #116 darthstar

That’s a point best debated on the twitter, where GG is most likely to see it as it is his domain. :)

Please feel free to run with it mr. darthstar as I do not do teh Twitter.

:)

122 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:07:42am

re: #93 Gus

[Embedded content]

Former “First Chief Directorate (Foreign Intelligence) of KGB. He worked there and at its successor FIS until 1992.”

123 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:08:35am

So, one of my professors from college found this.

It is a heat map of the popularity of the show “Duck Dynasty” by Television Markets.

When I told my Mom I wanted to see that for Doctor Who, she made a crack that it would be the exact opposite.

Her crack may be true. Doctor Who is a racially inclusive show that smacks traditionalism upside the head. And it supports Gay Rights. It is also a smarter show.

124 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:09:49am

re: #108 Vicious Babushka

*FACE PALM*

You’d think Sirota would want that embarrassment of an interview forgotten. I still can’t believe Woodroof had that crackpot Tice on. They edited out his typical screed about everyone in government being blackmailed by the NSA, but you could tell he went into it as Woodroof references it to her rebuttal guest.

Oh, and Tice of course uses as evidence that Clemente CNN interview that Greenwald got wrong too, drawing the same conclusions as Greenwald.

125 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:11:36am
126 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:13:11am

re: #125 Gus

More clouds, less vapors.

127 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:17:04am
128 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:17:07am

GG now flogging this kind of speculation, favorable to him, from a guy who was in the CIA maybe 3 yrs and found out he could make a better and safer living as a fiction writer.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 34m

Former CIA agent @barryeisler: “David Miranda and the Preclusion of Privacy” barryeisler.blogspot.com.br

129 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:17:12am

So I see that the self-destruction of one Mr. Glenn Greenwald is proceeding apace.

130 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:18:28am

Too far below the belt?

131 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:19:05am

Heh.

132 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:21:01am

Meanwhile, in the “News we didn’t need department”:

Leak leads to shut down of NJ nuclear plant

4 Gallons a minute is a whole lot less serious than the stuff going on at Fukushima right now

133 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:21:09am

Glenn Greenwald retweeted:

134 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:21:18am

OUTRAGE!

135 simoom  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:21:45am

re: #130 darthstar

Too far below the belt?

[Embedded content]

Seems about right. Partisan agenda. Cherry-picking for maximal impact. Oversells everything. Ethically compromised.

136 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:22:20am

re: #129 Targetpractice

So I see that the self-destruction of one Mr. Glenn Greenwald is proceeding apace.

Chances of that Pulitzer: Diminishing.
Chances of an indictment: Improving.

137 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:22:56am

I think the gig is, for all intents and purposes, over for GG, Assange and Wikileaks and their followers.

After two of their pawns, one convicted, have surrendered their freedom for their actions, who will now step forward and risk the loss of their lives for these narcissistic glory hounds?

I don’t think this is over for those who received the stolen property they commissioned for others to put themselves at risk for, either.

138 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:23:11am

re: #133 Vicious Babushka

Glenn Greenwald retweeted:

[Embedded content]

Stalker like. He’s be Tweeting stuff like that for some time now.

139 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:23:37am

re: #129 Targetpractice

So I see that the self-destruction of one Mr. Glenn Greenwald is proceeding apace.

The final nail in the coffin will be when he rolls out the chalkboards to link Obama to Soros and Alinsky.

140 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:24:17am

re: #134 Lidane

OUTRAGE!

[Embedded content]

“Everything that helps someone harms someone else.” Anthros of the Culture and personality persuasion used to call that ‘village thinking’.

141 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:24:41am

TEH TWITTERS WILL BE THE JUDGE! RETWEET IF YOU AGREE!!11!!

142 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:25:23am

re: #139 Dr. Matt

The final nail in the coffin will be when he rolls out the chalkboards to link Obama to Soros and Alinsky.

OLIGARHY!

I also expect Greenwald to start derping about the Bilderberg Group soon.

143 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:26:34am

re: #142 Lidane

OLIGARHY!

I also expect Greenwald to start derping about the Bilderberg Group soon.

Think Mossad comes first, then the Illuminati.

144 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:27:10am

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Think Mossad comes first, then the Illuminati.

AIPAC!!!1111

145 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:27:39am

re: #137 Justanotherhuman

I think the gig is, for all intents and purposes, over for GG, Assange and Wikileaks and their followers.

After two of their pawns, one convicted, have surrendered their freedom for their actions, who will now step forward and risk the loss of their lives for these narcissistic glory hounds?

I don’t think this is over for those who received the stolen property they commissioned for others to put themselves at risk for, either.

Yeah, that last one should be interesting in the next few days, since the folks cross the pond are making noises about there being some high-level docs in the thumb drives Miranda was carrying. Somehow, it would amuse me to no end to see Greenwald’s snuggle buddy met not with his “stolen” property, but with handcuffs and terrorism charges.

146 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:28:40am
147 Lancelot Link  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:31:46am

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Think Mossad comes first, then the Illuminati.

I see your Illuminati and raise.

wwwantichristfox.blogspot.com

148 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:31:57am

re: #146 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Nice.

149 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:33:18am

re: #147 Lancelot Link

I see your Illuminati and raise.

wwwantichristfox.blogspot.com

wow, somebody ran on that long about total fucking bullshit…

150 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:35:21am

re: #145 Targetpractice

Yeah, that last one should be interesting in the next few days, since the folks cross the pond are making noises about there being some high-level docs in the thumb drives Miranda was carrying. Somehow, it would amuse me to no end to see Greenwald’s snuggle buddy met not with his “stolen” property, but with handcuffs and terrorism charges.

The last won’t happen. Miranda is a Brazilian citizen, in Brazil. Brazil won’t extradite him.

151 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:35:37am

re: #147 Lancelot Link

I see your Illuminati and raise.

wwwantichristfox.blogspot.com

I don’t think Earthling is his first language.

152 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:35:47am

re: #146 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

153 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:43:45am

re: #150 Feline Fearless Leader

The last won’t happen. Miranda is a Brazilian citizen, in Brazil. Brazil won’t extradite him.

Thing is, the whole legal case he’s fighting is in the UK courts. If they decide to bring charges against him, I’m not sure the courts will agree to allowing him to continue his case without him present.

154 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:44:54am
155 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:45:33am
156 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:45:54am

re: #153 Targetpractice

Thing is, the whole legal case he’s fighting is in the UK courts. If they decide to bring charges against him, I’m not sure the courts will agree to allowing him to continue his case without him present.

Triple bunking at the Ecuadorean embassy.

157 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:47:40am

Greenwald’s desperation is showing big time now…

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 7m

New from the @Guardian & @EwenMacaskill: NSA paid millions to cover Prism compliance costs for tech companies theguardian.com

158 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:48:25am
159 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:53:05am
160 Political Atheist  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:55:10am

re: #146 Vicious Babushka

I was reading Jezebel this morning and she had a couple great points about what’s right vs what’s rude in terms of transgender people. In Chelsea Mannings place I’ll reluctantly defer to Jezebel. But I figured manning to be mentally ill or at least conflicted about the military enough to lose that job before I ever heard about gender issues. Second I think of those common courtesies as earned by some minimum standard of behavior, like maybe not being a convicted military felon.

161 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:57:03am
162 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:57:10am

re: #160 Political Atheist

I was reading Jezebel this morning and she had a couple great points about what’s right vs what’s rude in terms of transgender people. In Chelsea Mannings place I’ll reluctantly defer to Jezebel. But I figured manning to be mentally ill or at least conflicted about the military enough to lose that job before I ever heard about gender issues. Second I think of those common courtesies as earned by some minimum standard of behavior, like maybe not being a convicted military felon.

I think misapplied pronouns are pretty far down on the list of PVT Manning’s problems.

163 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:58:38am

re: #153 Targetpractice

Thing is, the whole legal case he’s fighting is in the UK courts. If they decide to bring charges against him, I’m not sure the courts will agree to allowing him to continue his case without him present.

My bet is the legal stuff will die by the wayside if initiated from the Greenwald/Miranda end. They’re just interested in media attention and “me, me, me!” in the short run. After that they probably have little interest in pursuing the legal expense and assuming it’s like the US courts, facing discovery. I expect the Guardian itself won’t follow things too much further for the same reasons.

Per potential UK charges against Miranda I don’t think they can force him to appear in a UK court. Probably the best they can do is ask a Brazilian court to try him under the applicable UK laws - which I think is how Brazil handles things like that.

(Now the slightly more interesting thing is that I don’t think Greenwald is a Brazilian citizen. Thus, the Brazilian government might decide he is worth tossing to the wolves assuming at some point the US/UK thinks they have charges that can stick and decide to ask for him. Assuming he is not kept around for his use as a anti-imperialist irritant.)

164 Political Atheist  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:59:04am

Oh crap gotta run. Something changed at kitco.com and my spreadsheets are not getting updated. The IT part of my job just got bigger.

BBL

165 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 7:59:37am

re: #161 Gus

[Embedded content]

What, even JofK has had enough?

166 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:00:24am

Meanwhile, in “Weird News”:

167 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:01:45am
168 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:03:20am

re: #160 Political Atheist

I was reading Jezebel this morning and she had a couple great points about what’s right vs what’s rude in terms of transgender people. In Chelsea Mannings place I’ll reluctantly defer to Jezebel. But I figured manning to be mentally ill or at least conflicted about the military enough to lose that job before I ever heard about gender issues. Second I think of those common courtesies as earned by some minimum standard of behavior, like maybe not being a convicted military felon.

I mean WTF is the reason for gettting one’s knickers in a twist over which name or pronoun we use to refer to THIS PERSON? Unless we are hand-wringingly PC, it is irrelevant to what THIS PERSON did and why we are talking about THIS PERSON in the first place.

169 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:03:35am

re: #165 Justanotherhuman

What, even JofK has had enough?

170 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:04:18am

And if somebody refers to Chelsea as “he” what’s she going to do? Cry?

171 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:04:26am

re: #167 Vicious Babushka

Glenn Greenwald is a 3 year old.

Mature People: Snowden revealed a secret U.K. Middle East Surveillance Base.

Glenn: Nuh-uh. No he didn’t. *Stomps feet and begins to whine*

172 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:06:37am

re: #167 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]No, he did not

Well, that’s a relief.

173 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:08:23am

Off to help someone build a house. BBL

174 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:09:42am

re: #170 Vicious Babushka

And if somebody refers to Chelsea as “he” what’s she going to do? Cry?

Somewhere, some incredibly sensitive and gender-conscious person might get offended. And that is important to you, then you need to be more careful about your choice of pronouns.

175 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:11:52am

re: #174 Sol Berdinowitz

Somewhere, some incredibly sensitive and gender-conscious person might get offended. And that is important to you, then you need to be more careful about your choice of pronouns.

So I won’t offend anyone I will just refer to Manning as The convicted criminal Manning, that is not gender specific. Everyone should be happy, no?

176 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:13:54am
177 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:14:25am

Vegas Police Bust ‘Sovereign Citizen’ Terror Plot

talkingpointsmemo.com

GG & Co have more in common with these types than they think.

178 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:16:57am
179 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:17:10am
180 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:21:14am

re: #178 Gus

Violatin’ ur privacy to show ur an enemy of privacy!

Yeah, that makes total sense.

181 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:22:46am

How’s that rebranding going?

182 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:23:29am


I just realized the depth of this conspiracy! The entire thing is a false flag operation. Greenwald is colluding with the NSA via their agent Snowden to raise this huge distraction about the security of email and that most general providers are giving connections and content freely to the government.

Soon, a well-financed email provider will appear as the white knight claiming to be willing to provide secure encrypted service along with a promise to not give data to the NSA or other government agencies. And it will be too good to be true since it will actually be a secret government front company that is allowed to keep and read content as part of the EULA their victims will freely agree to.

Whew. Got that out of my system. Time to get more coffee.
;)

183 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:28:18am

re: #177 Justanotherhuman

Vegas Police Bust ‘Sovereign Citizen’ Terror Plot

talkingpointsmemo.com

GG & Co have more in common with these types than they think.

Sovereign Citizens are the libertarian’s libertarian.

184 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:29:48am

re: #183 Dr. Matt

Sovereign Citizens are the libertarian’s libertarian.

Yeah, this. They’re both raving nutbars, but at least the sovereign citizen jokers try to put their convictions into action instead of hiding behind their keyboards.

185 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:30:06am

re: #183 Dr. Matt

Sovereign Citizens are the libertarian’s libertarian.

Arguably the libertarians who have taken things beyond just yapping about it.
//

186 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:30:14am
187 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:31:14am
188 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:31:35am

re: #183 Dr. Matt

Sovereign Citizens are the libertarian’s libertarian.

They all think they’re above the law. Scofflaws, all of them.

189 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:34:51am
190 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:35:15am

This is pretty cool - NYC Children’s Hospital has revamped one of its radiology labs to make it more kid friendly. Being sick is rough, and being in a hospital is scary enough (even for the adults), so they’ve turned the lab into a pirate’s hangout:

191 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:35:19am

Out of curiosity, would I be able to get to the west side of the state (Mesa Verde included) during the winter.

192 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:37:34am
193 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:38:47am

re: #192 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Did he check with Snowjob first?

194 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:38:50am

re: #192 Lidane

There you go again about the free speech. Russia’s got free speech - if they wanted your opinion, they’d have given it to you.

195 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:38:58am

re: #191 ProTARDISLiberal

Out of curiosity, would I be able to get to the west side of the state (Mesa Verde included) during the winter.

Not sure about the southwest part of the state. The I-70 and I-40 corridors should be open to get you into the western part farther north - though you might need to carry chains.

I’ve been up to Craig/Steamboat area for Christmas. And that was flying into Denver and then driving from there.

196 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:40:54am
197 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:41:34am

re: #193 Justanotherhuman

Did he check with Snowjob first?

Nah. Assange gave the OK first.

198 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:42:11am
199 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:43:25am

re: #188 Justanotherhuman

They all think they’re above the law. Scofflaws, all of them.

Yep. You read about the movement only recognizing “local” law enforcement as legitimate, and then most of the time the yahoos get into shoot-outs with county deputies. Who are pretty much the definition of local law enforcement.

200 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:45:44am

re: #198 NJDhockeyfan

201 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:46:07am

BBC Breaking NewsVerified account ‏@BBCBreaking

350+ injured in addition to 27 killed by blasts as Friday prayers ended in Tripoli, Lebanon bbc.in & pic.twitter.com/sHg4gjYUlD

See update above.

202 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:48:41am
203 jimmyvluv4u  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:54:23am

re: #202 Vicious Babushka

I’m not religious in the slightest, and some of my biggest religious pet-peeves have been with the Catholic church. But I’ve got to say, this new pope has been doing enough stuff like this to get a little bit of my respect. He’s put a much more human face on the overall ridiculous Catholic hierarchy. I like it.

204 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:56:27am
205 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:58:29am

I’d come up with a witty retort, but I’m too busy laughing:

206 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:58:33am

re: #196 Lidane

This is an extremely shrill article—which is why I love it of course.

207 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 8:59:35am

Also, aside from Capulin Volcano and the Ludlow Memorial, what else is along the southern route between OKC and Denver. (I-40 to various teeny state roads to I-25)

208 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:00:49am

re: #205 Lidane

Sounds pretty exciting

209 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:05:21am

re: #205 Lidane

That’s one of the most bizarre arguments I’ve heard of. Gay derangement syndrome at its worst.

210 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:06:47am

re: #192 Lidane

Would that we in the U.S. suffering under the NSA boot enjoyed the same degree of freedom as those in Putin’s Russia. ////

211 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:09:59am

re: #209 Bulworth

That’s one of the most bizarre arguments I’ve heard of. Gay derangement syndrome at its worst.

Bryan Fischer will be sure to Tweet about it.

212 Bubblehead II  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:14:03am

re: #205 Lidane

I’d come up with a witty retort, but I’m too busy laughing:

[Embedded content]

re: #209 Bulworth

That’s one of the most bizarre arguments I’ve heard of. Gay derangement syndrome at its worst.

Sadly it isn’t the female same sex couples that men have to watch out for. It’s the State.

Kansas sperm donor ordered to pay child support prepares for battle

“A Kansas sperm donor who was ordered to pay child support for the baby he helped a lesbian couple conceive plans to fight back in court, and suggested he might be a victim of bias against same-sex parenting.”

The couple wants nothing from this man.

213 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:14:29am

re: #205 Lidane

I’d come up with a witty retort, but I’m too busy laughing:

[Embedded content]

I think they’d be shocked if they saw how relatively boring most gay and lesbian couples are. But yeah this is too funny to be offensive.

214 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:14:50am
215 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:15:06am

re: #212 Bubblehead II

Sadly it isn’t the female same sex couples that men have to watch out for. It’s the State.

Kansas sperm donor ordered to pay child support prepares for battle

“A Kansas sperm donor who was ordered to pay child support for the baby he helped a lesbian couple conceive plans to fight back in court, and suggested he might be a victim of bias against same-sex parenting.”

The couple wants nothing from this man.

Sam Brownback sure does love small government.//

216 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:15:32am
217 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:16:17am

re: #205 Lidane

I’d come up with a witty retort, but I’m too busy laughing:

Do you remember that story that was all over the news about the 3 straight men who escaped from a house in Albuquerque where they had been held captive for 10 years by lesbians?

Me neither.

218 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:16:30am

Okay because I have all the maturity of a 8 year old boy, I’m happy to announce that my old school TalkBoy Deluxe arrived today from the seller I bought it from via EBay.

219 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:17:25am

re: #216 Gus

[Embedded content]

Damn Greenwald drones.

220 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:19:37am

re: #212 Bubblehead II

Article says the couple had applied for state benefits and the state in turn sought the donor’s information. Not sure how regular this is.

221 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:20:16am

How long before we hear that gay people are in fact the descendants of the dragons the RR’s been warning us about or better yet part bear just like unkie Bryan fears.

222 Lidane  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:22:08am

re: #218 HappyWarrior

Speaking of total immaturity, I’ve found my next messenger bag for my laptop. Shiny!

223 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:24:06am

re: #222 Lidane

Speaking of total immaturity, I’ve found my next messenger bag for my laptop. Shiny!

Cool find.

224 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:24:13am

re: #222 Lidane

Speaking of total immaturity, I’ve found my next messenger bag for my laptop. Shiny!

Let me tell you about the 3 matchbox cars I have on my work desk….

225 piratedan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:24:42am

re: #207 ProTARDISLiberal

depends on what interests you and how far astray you wish to go….

Santa Fe is known to be an artists haven, as well as the State Capital of NM…

In Albuquerque there a cool tram lift on the north side of town.

In Las Vegas (NM) there’s a cool visitors ctr in the heart of town that used to be a railway station

Taos is a bit of a drive from the Interstate but it is flat out gorgeous to see

Same would hold true for the Gorge over in Canon City, I believe some of the facilities were spared by the recent wildfires

Garden of the Gods just outside/inside of Colorado Springs is awesome

226 Bubblehead II  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:24:54am

re: #220 Bulworth

Article says the couple had applied for state benefits and the state in turn sought the donor’s information. Not sure how regular this is.

Me either, but it looks like Kansas is trying to get money from the wrong person on purpose.

Since Kansas does not recognize same-sex marriage, the women had to file each adoption as a single parent. That law also prevents the state from collecting child support from same-sex partners, despite Bauer’s assumption of financial responsibility for her daughter. Bauer characterized the latest development in the case as a “step backward” in the fight for marriage equality.

227 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:26:19am

re: #224 Bulworth

Let me tell you about the 3 matchbox cars I have on my work desk….

Heh to go along with this, I got one of those Russian nesting dolls that I bought in Berlin. Biggest doll is Putin. Anyhow, my brother found an old school mini helmet from Super Bowl XIV so I’ve got Vlad wearing a Steelers helmet.

228 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:27:11am

My boss scheduled a phone interview with a candidate to fill a position that we have had open for about six weeks.

Here’s a job-seeking tip:

If the interviewer calls you at the scheduled time and gets voice mail, U AIN’T GETTING HIRED.

229 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:30:29am

re: #227 HappyWarrior

Heh to go along with this, I got one of those Russian nesting dolls that I bought in Berlin. Biggest doll is Putin. Anyhow, my brother found an old school mini helmet from Super Bowl XIV so I’ve got Vlad wearing a Steelers helmet.

I have a set of babushkas (actually a bunch of sets) that I bought when I visited Moscow in 2007.

I have the “Russian Leaders” set displayed together with the “South Park” set so you see this:

CARTMAN
VLAD
KENNY
BORIS
KYLE
STAN
GORBY
MR. KITTY
STALIN
LENIN

230 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:30:44am

re: #216 Gus

[Embedded content]

I read the comments just as the GG swarm was arriving. Their comments literally gave me a headache. I had to bail on the thread.

231 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:31:09am

The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald Are Lying to Us. Does Anyone Care?

I’ve avoided writing about the ongoing Snowden shenanigans because Bob Cesca at The Daily Banter and Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs have been all over it like brown on rice, and frankly, I can’t be bothered. I’ve tussled with Greenwald in the past, and if there’s one thing I know, it’s that his place as The Most Important Security State JournalistTM is quickly being cemented by a media that dutifully reports the latest Greenwald outrage unquestioningly. And besides, he’s got legions of minions waiting to pounce on you and say abhorrent things, should you dare speak out against their hero, as Joshua Foust points out in his latest post about Greenwald’s penchant for bullying….

232 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:31:47am

re: #229 Vicious Babushka

I have a set of babushkas (actually a bunch of sets) that I bought when I visited Moscow in 2007.

I have the “Russian Leaders” set displayed together with the “South Park” set so you see this:

CARTMAN
VLAD
KENNY
BORIS
KYLE
STAN
GORBY
MR. KITTY
STALIN
LENIN

That’s too cool. I’ve always loved those dolls. They’re neat.

233 b.d.  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:36:21am

re: #231 Gus

The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald Are Lying to Us. Does Anyone Care?

What a beautiful rant by Imani Gandy

234 Gus  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:39:21am
235 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:40:25am
236 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:44:03am

Arrest made in Spokane beating death of WWII vet

(CNN) — A juvenile has been arrested by Spokane police in connection with the beating death of an 88-year-old World War II veteran this week, police said Friday.

The male suspect has been charged with first-degree robbery and first-degree murder.

The man — Delbert Belton — was brutally beaten and left for dead by two teens outside a lounge in Spokane, Washington, where he loved to go play pool.

The motive? Police don’t have one. The teens appeared to have picked him at random, authorities say.

A retired aluminum company worker who served in the Pacific, Belton, friends say, took a bullet in the leg during the Battle of Okinawa. He survived that attack.

237 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:45:04am

WE CAN HAZ BOTHS, BRYAN. JUST U CAN’T HAZ BOTHS.

238 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:45:22am

re: #233 b.d.

What a beautiful rant by Imani Gandy

And she links to Paul Canning’s “The Left must challenge Greenwald” - also a very good read.

239 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:46:21am

re: #237 Vicious Babushka

WE CAN HAZ BOTHS, BRYAN. JUST U CAN’T HAZ BOTHS.

[Embedded content]

Because religious liberty is denying people their legal rights under the law. Sorry Bryan, it’s not like that, there are plenty of religious houses of worships that are happy to marry gay and lesbian couples. Just because your church never made it passed the Enlightenment doesn’t mean that GLBT couples should lack rights.

240 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:46:27am

Two rednecks are out hunting, and as they are walking along they come upon a huge hole in the ground. They approach it and are amazed by the size of it.

The first hunter says, “Wow, that’s some hole. I can’t even see the bottom. I wonder how deep it is.”

The second hunter says “I don’t know. Let’s throw something down and listen and see how long it takes to hit bottom.”

The first hunter says, “There’s this old transmission over here. Give me a hand and we’ll throw it in and see.”

So they pick it up, carry it over, and count one, two and three, and throw it in the hole. They are standing there listening and looking over the edge and they hear a rustling in the brush behind them. As they turn around they see a goat come crashing through the brush, run up to the hole and with no hesitation, jump in headfirst.

While they are standing there looking at each other, looking in the hole, and trying to figure out what that was all about, an old farmer walks up.

“Say there,” says the farmer, “you fellers didn’t happen to see my goat around here anywhere, did you?”

The first hunter says, “Funny you should ask. We were just standing here a minute ago and a goat came running out of the bushes doin’ about a hunnert miles an hour and jumped headfirst into this hole here!”

The old farmer said, “That’s impossible. I had him chained to an old transmission!”

241 darthstar  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:47:30am

re: #205 Lidane

I’d come up with a witty retort, but I’m too busy laughing:

[Embedded content]

242 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:47:55am

re: #237 Vicious Babushka

WE CAN HAZ BOTHS, BRYAN. JUST U CAN’T HAZ BOTHS.

[Embedded content]

I wonder if ole’ Bryan will finally attain Stage 10 ODS, and if so, where will he go?

That is, if any other country will have him. And if you’re reading this, Bryan, don’t even think about coming to the Czech Republic.

243 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:48:12am

re: #237 Vicious Babushka

Over/under until he is found to being using an underaged Native American rentboy? (Doesn’t he have some hang-up with Native Americans?)

244 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:48:43am

re: #242 Dr Lizardo

Russia would love to have him.

245 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:48:55am

re: #242 Dr Lizardo

I wonder if ole’ Bryan will finally attain Stage 10 ODS, and if so, where will he go?

That is, if any other country will have him. And if you’re reading this, Bryan, don’t even think about coming to the Czech Republic.

He will go to Russia!

247 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:49:49am

Pamela’s pimping the EDL and she can’t understand why she’s banned from the UK.

248 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:50:16am

re: #243 ProTARDISLiberal

Over/under until he is found to being using an underaged Native American rentboy? (Doesn’t he have some hang-up with Native Americans?)

Yeah, he said something stupid (imagine that) about Native Americans. I think he’s either very sexually repressed or a huge closet case. A healthy and normal adjusted person isn’t fixated/obsessed with the sexual practices of others.

249 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:50:49am

Snowden couldn’t have leaked the documents referred to in The Independent because he’s a meat puppet. /Greenwald

Other possibilities - Snowden’s playing Greenwald. The Russians (or Chinese) slipped Snowden-related documents to the Independent without Greenwald knowing. Or, these are legitimate documents and Greenwald’s talking out of his arse once again because his initial claims about who had the documents was wrong all along and they were never as secure as he claimed.

That all gives me a big headache though.

What do we really know? The FISA Court, far from being a rubber stamper of NSA decisions, has actually forced the NSA to tailor its programs more narrowly. What would make the process better? Making FISC decisions public (redacting classified information), and letting the public understand what’s going on with these programs and that there is a functioning oversight that limits what the agencies can do.

Establish a whistleblower provision for the NSA/CIA/NRO that lets the information they’re concerned about get to the proper authorities in Congress, Administration and Courts without compromising national security.

Making sure Congress is in the loop helps, but the courts are on the lead in this one.

Oh, and prosecuting leakers. We’ve gone from loose lips sink ships to leakers are heroes of the republic. Leakers aren’t heroes, except in the minds of (pseudo) libertarians and anarchists who want to undermine the power of the state. Nor is Snowden a whistleblower. You don’t get to claim to be a whistleblower when you were busy making travel plans to escape the US to avoid being arrested. And fleeing to China and then Russia? No, that puts you in a different category from whistleblower.

250 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:50:49am

re: #244 ProTARDISLiberal

re: #245 Vicious Babushka

He will go to Russia!

Well, they’re welcome to him. Have a good time in Moscow, Bryan! Don’t forget to write derp!

251 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:53:06am
252 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:53:46am

re: #249 lawhawk

Other possibilities - Snowden’s playing Greenwald.

Snowden is out of the picture. He has not been seen or heard from since he disappeared into the back seat of a car and drove out of the airport.

Any communications alleged to be from him since then are from the FSB handlers.

253 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:54:17am

re: #251 Eclectic Cyborg

NOT photoshopped. Seen in the wild this morning at a Lowe’s parking lot.

I saw one of those a few weeks ago on a car with a NY license plate.

254 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:54:35am

re: #251 Eclectic Cyborg

NOT photoshopped. Seen in the wild this morning at a Lowe’s parking lot.

Don’t blame me, I’m voting for Jeff Bridges.

255 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:54:54am

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

I saw one of those a few weeks ago on a NY license plate.

Fucking hipsters.//

257 Bubblehead II  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:59:00am

re: #256 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Link sends me to the LGF Gorn page.

258 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:59:12am

WTF

259 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:59:20am

re: #252 Vicious Babushka

I said possibilities. I didn’t say that they were all plausible.

260 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 9:59:55am

re: #258 Vicious Babushka

WTF

[Embedded content]

He’s just trying to latch himself on to any story on the planet now.

261 Dr. Matt  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:00:16am

Karma. Typically Defense Department employees are republicans voters….

262 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:00:21am

re: #258 Vicious Babushka

WTF

[Embedded content]

He’s realizing people understand that 1) stop & frisk is a real violation and 2) that the NSA is not the threat he makes it out to be. Hence he’s trying to tie them together in gullible minds.

263 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:00:48am

re: #260 Eclectic Cyborg

If you look up Attention Whore in the dictionary, Glenn Greenwald’s picture is there.

264 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:01:26am

re: #262 William Barnett-Lewis

He’s realizing people understand that 1) stop & frisk is a real violation and 2) that the NSA is not the threat he makes it out to be. Hence he’s trying to tie them together in gullible minds.

I thought he was trying to say that Dudebros are marginalized and persecuted just like Teh Blahs.

265 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:01:37am

re: #258 Vicious Babushka

He’s finding that his NSA story is being dropped from the front page, so he’s glommed on to the Stop and Frisk suits/actions in NYC.

He’s trying to compare US citizens and rights violated (or potentially violated) by random searches on city streets by NYPD with the lawful operation of international eavesdropping programs that accidentally took in some communications by US citizens.

One thing is not like the other.

266 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:01:44am

re: #257 Bubblehead II

Link sends me to the LGF Gorn page.

Yep, might help if I put an actual link there.
XD
thinkprogress.org

Fixed

267 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:02:07am

rawstory.com
We were wondering how birthers would reconcile Ted’s actual situation with Obama’s. Well now we know, Canada is A) apparently not really foreign soil (someone let Prime Minister Harper know that) and B) Obama has too many ties to Kenya(no shame in having ties to the homeland of your father even though I think Obama hasn’t been to Kenya that many times.)

268 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:04:57am

The simplest explanation is usually correct, and here it’s probably the Russians releasing Snowden documents to the Independent, but undermining Greenwald’s take on events.

I can’t help but wonder if a few people (Greenwald) forget that the Russians and US have some commonalities. That includes trying to keep tabs on jihadi groups and Islamists. Some have trained and operated in the former Soviet Union Republics - including attacking Russian interests in the region. They stand to benefit from some shared intel from US sources just as much as the Brits or French or Germans would. They want to see those intel operations and eavesdropping programs work as much as the US does.

Remember when there was a kerfuffle over what the Russians did or didn’t provide the FBI ahead of time in the Boston bombings investigations? There’s ongoing communications and threat analysis - and some times the US and Russia are on the same side.

Other times, they’re on opposite sides.

Here? The Russians are going to try and play this to their advantage but without burning bridges with US intel services, so they’re going through The Independent and undermining Greenwald’s nonsense.

269 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:05:10am

re: #264 Vicious Babushka

I thought he was trying to say that Dudebros are marginalized and persecuted just like Teh Blahs.

Well, that wouldn’t surprise me either O_o

270 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:10:44am

re: #268 lawhawk

The simplest explanation is usually correct, and here it’s probably the Russians releasing Snowden documents to the Independent, but undermining Greenwald’s take on events.

I can’t help but wonder if a few people (Greenwald) forget that the Russians and US have some commonalities. That includes trying to keep tabs on jihadi groups and Islamists. Some have trained and operated in the former Soviet Union Republics - including attacking Russian interests in the region. They stand to benefit from some shared intel from US sources just as much as the Brits or French or Germans would. They want to see those intel operations and eavesdropping programs work as much as the US does.

Remember when there was a kerfuffle over what the Russians did or didn’t provide the FBI ahead of time in the Boston bombings investigations? There’s ongoing communications and threat analysis - and some times the US and Russia are on the same side.

Other times, they’re on opposite sides.

Here? The Russians are going to try and play this to their advantage but without burning bridges with US intel services, so they’re going through The Independent and undermining Greenwald’s nonsense.

Divide and conquer, an age old strategy.

271 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:13:21am

re: #261 Dr. Matt

Karma. Typically Defense Department employees are republicans voters….

[Embedded content]

I wasn’t. My TPGOP Representative, however is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the local Army base. I’ll be asking her about it at her town hall meeting in a week or so.

272 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:27:22am

re: #231 Gus

The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald Are Lying to Us. Does Anyone Care?

We have our six packs of Comrade Cola - why should we care if he is lying as he entertains us?
///
;)

273 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:35:01am

re: #231 Gus

have been all over it like brown on rice

Heh.

274 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Aug 23, 2013 10:40:48am

re: #258 Vicious Babushka

SEE I DO CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE


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