Reuters Poll: Only 9 Percent of Americans Favor Military Intervention in Syria

Just not into it
Middle East • Views: 22,656

If President Obama decides to take military action against Syria in the wake of the regime’s alleged chemical attacks against civilians, it’s going to be a very unpopular move.

(Reuters) - Americans strongly oppose U.S. intervention in Syria’s civil war and believe Washington should stay out of the conflict even if reports that Syria’s government used deadly chemicals to attack civilians are confirmed, a Reuters/Ipsos poll says.

About 60 percent of Americans surveyed said the United States should not intervene in Syria’s civil war, while just 9 percent thought President Barack Obama should act.

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245 comments
1 Skip Intro  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:18:34am

As if that matters.

Members of Congress call for Syria strike

Just don’t expect them to allocate any money to pay for it.

latimes.com

2 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:19:31am

If he wants backing he’ll have to hope some group of Islamist loons does something horrible in America.

Then he can link Assad to them and, voila! There’s an excuse to invade.

It worked for Bush. //

3 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:21:02am

Getting involved in the internal conflict of another nation never seems to work well for us (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq). Not to mention more U.S. meddling in the middle east will destabilize things even more over there.

Oh yeah, and we can’t afford another war right now anyway.

4 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:28:23am

But, But think of the Children Military Industrial Complex.

////

5 erik_t  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:29:28am

I haven’t yet heard anyone explain what action the US should take, against exactly whom, and how this would benefit a different faction, and how we could be sure that different faction would be a substantial improvement.

It’s more of a shrugging we-have-to-DO-something movement, which I don’t find to be incredibly compelling.

6 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:34:32am

NATO is already operating in Syria.

And there’s this piece in Slate, dated yesterday:

Obama’s Guns of August
President Obama will likely bomb Bashar Assad’s regime in Syria. Here is the logic—and limits—for the president’s plan of attack.

slate.com

7 elizajane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:35:39am

There is no good military option in Syria. The situation is even more complex, and less amenable to an outcome favorable to the US, than Egypt. I think this is lots of hot air on the part of Western govts, who have to say something when a country is so clearly attacking its own citizens; but Obama is essentially inclined to non-intervention — not consistently, but more so than Bush, or than a lot of loud-mouthed current neo-cons. I think we will do little or nothing and that will sadly be the right thing.

8 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:36:01am

Intervene is such a vague term. Are we opposing ground attacks? Or something like Libya? Or are we opposed to a couple hundred Tomahawks?

9 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:37:22am
10 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:38:50am

If Syrian military uses chemical weapons, should the US intervene

Aug 23rd, 2013
784 Responses
Should not intervene
49.4%
Should intervene
25.7%
Don’t know
24.9%

11 Ming  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:39:02am

I don’t pretend to understand all the pros and cons of our intervening in Syria. I’m confident that President Obama will only put American lives on the line for a Very Good Reason.

It’s one thing for Americans to have empathy for the suffering of others. I’m sure that many Americans DO have empathy for the current suffering in Syria. It’s a different matter entirely to ask these same American families to put their sons and daughters lives on the line, halfway around the world.

Obama is thinking this through very carefully. It will be interesting to see how he handles this.

12 darthstar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:41:44am

Too bad it isn’t only 9% of the pundits. Then again, the only opinion that matters to most of the media is that of war addict John McCain.

13 erik_t  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:43:36am

re: #11 Ming

I don’t pretend to understand all the pros and cons of our intervening in Syria. I’m confident that President Obama will only put American lives on the line for a Very Good Reason.

Even this, I think, is missing the most salient point. If you could absolutely guarantee the personal safety of any involved US forces, and just for fun cruise missiles and jet fuel and bombs are absolutely free… even with these outlandish stipulations, it’s not clear to me what action we should take.

There are no good organizations in this fight, and no lily-white rebel group to back, even if it cost us nothing. Whatever state emerges out the other side could easily look like our worst fears out of Egypt, without a strong and traditionally secular military to put the brakes on things they think are a little too crazy.

14 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:43:59am

“What’s Syria?” 24%

15 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:45:08am

Honestly, I can’t see how this works out well. This isn’t some clear-cut case of “good” rebels versus “evil” regime, both sides are minefields that are best left alone rather than waded into in some vain hope of finding a middle ground we feel comfortable leaving in charge. Yeah, I feel bad about how the situation is being handled…but on the other hand, whoever takes the big chair is likely to hate us anyway, so I’d rather just let it shake out and then deal with the winner.

16 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:45:30am

“Syria? Isn’t that the cute little talking app in my iPhone? Why does Obama want to attack my iPhone?”

17 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:47:42am

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague says evidence of any chemical attack in Syria could now have been destroyed.

Syria to allow UN to inspect ‘chemical weapons’ site

bbc.co.uk

18 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:48:44am
19 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:50:38am

re: #18 Balfour Rage

‘smatter, Prudence? Pissed you’re not allowed to be a bigoted jerk any more?

20 Ming  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:51:06am

re: #13 erik_t

You make a very good point. I agree completely.

Again, I don’t claim to understand the details. But it seems like we’re “sort-of” on the side FOR the murdering military dictatorship in Egypt (for now, anyway), and “sort-of thinking about” taking the side AGAINST the murdering military dictatorship in Syria.

Looks like in that poll, with 9% in favor of intervention, Americans have got it right. Isn’t that the same percentage that approve of the current Congress?

21 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:52:31am

Sunday Funday!

22 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:54:25am

“Syria? Is that Justin Bieber’s new album?”

23 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:55:15am
24 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:55:31am
25 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:55:51am

Thanks to the Bush gang and the invasion of Iraq, we have ZERO credibility about WMD in the rest of the world. Obama is not Bush, but that is hardly obvious outside the US. Unless their use is so obvious, widespread, and verifiable by multiple sources as to eliminate any possibility of doubt, we cannot intervene against that use or potential use. That is a hard and unpleasant reality but it is reality nonetheless.

26 erik_t  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:56:26am

re: #23 Balfour Rage

@BryanJFischer Only thing we could possibly do to help Syria: persuade government to let missionaries in, convert whole nation to Christ.

Please proceed, Bryan.

I mean, quite literally. You first. Go missionize the Syrian people. I’m sure they will welcome you with open arms.

27 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:56:45am

re: #18 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

Yeah because MLK would be so ashamed of America’s first African-American president and would be upset that we didn’t elect warphile McCain and Moneybags Romney.

28 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:56:52am

re: #23 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

That’s even dumber than the “marines and missiles” comment.

29 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:57:31am

re: #23 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

Yeah because forced conversion is such a great thing. Fuck Fischer.

30 darthstar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:58:25am
31 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 10:58:50am

re: #5 erik_t

I haven’t yet heard anyone explain what action the US should take, against exactly whom, and how this would benefit a different faction, and how we could be sure that different faction would be a substantial improvement.

It’s more of a shrugging we-have-to-DO-something movement, which I don’t find to be incredibly compelling.

I looked around to find a serious article making arguments in favor of intervention. There isn’t much to choose from but this is as good as I can find…
Why the US should intervene in Syria despite opposition at home (Opinion

You can skip the first part and just skip down the the “realpolitik” section for the best argument I’ve seen so far.

32 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:00:52am

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Thanks to the Bush gang and the invasion of Iraq, we have ZERO credibility about WMD in the rest of the world. Obama is not Bush, but that is hardly obvious outside the US. Unless their use is so obvious, widespread, and verifiable by multiple sources as to eliminate any possibility of doubt, we cannot intervene against that use or potential use. That is a hard and unpleasant reality but it is reality nonetheless.

Pretty much. The US spent the better part of the first decade of this century screaming “WMD!,” is it any wonder that the rest of the world now advises caution when we start doing it again? Really, I think the “Red Line” comment by Obama was probably one of the biggest foreign policy blunders so far. Post-Iraq, the US does not have the political capital with the rest of the world to return to issuing bluffs.

33 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:01:17am

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Those that object to us acting should be first in line to step up instead given the actual use of a WMD. However the moment we lost credibility was not just Iraq but North Korea getting off way too easily after developing and detonating nukes. Non proliferation enforcement is a fiction at this point.

34 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:01:37am

BAM!

35 AntonSirius  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:01:47am

re: #22 Gus

“Syria? Is that Justin Bieber’s new album?”

If it were, support for military action would be running at about 77%.

36 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:02:45am

re: #23 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

Yeah, that’ll help.

37 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:03:02am

re: #34 Balfour Rage

BAM!

[Embedded content]

Yeah Obama’s going to defund something that he worked his ass off to get passed because Ted Cruz wants it defunded. Cruz is either a fucking moron or desperate.

38 AntonSirius  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:03:56am

re: #23 Balfour Rage

39 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:04:52am

re: #38 AntonSirius

[Embedded content]

Yep I’ll help Bryan pay for a one way ticket to Damascus. If he thinks forcing an entire nation to convert is such a lovely idea, he should be doing the mission work himself instead of dicking around on Twitter bitching all day.

40 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:08:26am

re: #34 Balfour Rage

BAM!

[Embedded content]

“Might”? And I “might” suddenly grow a third arm. Just as the GOP “might” not be reduced to a hollowed out husk after blowing the economy’s brains out to show Obama they mean business when it comes to Obamacare.

41 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:08:38am

Jindal: Racism Persists Because Minorities Cling to Their Heritage

42 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:09:17am

re: #41 Kragar

Jindal: Racism Persists Because Minorities Cling to Their Heritage

Says the lowest polling governor in the US.

43 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:09:37am

Reason 1,235 It’s probably good I’m not President.

I actually think WMD non proliferation should have real teeth, real hard physical actions at hand. The fact the Bush and his guys were dead wrong about Iraq and WMD the second time around does not change the importance of non proliferation in the least.

WMD non proliferation is an existential choice for civilization.

44 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:10:08am
45 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:11:10am

re: #41 Kragar

Jindal: Racism Persists Because Minorities Cling to Their Heritage

What a load of crap. Jindal’s saying exactly what he knows his base wants to hear though.

46 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:12:35am

re: #43 Political Atheist

I still do not get why people are more upset by these people killed by chemical attack than they are the people killed by indiscriminate shelling.


About a hundred thousand have died in this civil war already.

47 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:15:05am

re: #38 AntonSirius

Didn’t know you were a fantasy dork like me. Yesterday, 10 teamer with 5 newbs explains getting T-Rich mid-second round, Sproles (1 PPR) as flex fourth round.
WIN!

48 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:15:28am

re: #46 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I still do not get why people are more upset by these people killed by chemical attack than they are the people killed by indiscriminate shelling.

About a hundred thousand have died in this civil war already.

WMDs have for decades been the “Do Not Cross” line in any conflict. Gunning down unarmed civilians? Yawn. Shelling them with naval fire? Of some interest. Carpet bombing them? Dancing With The Stars is too important to miss.

But you bust out the nerve gas? OUTRAGE!

49 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:16:43am

re: #48 Targetpractice

WMDs have for decades been the “Do Not Cross” line in any conflict. Gunning down unarmed civilians? Yawn. Shelling them with naval fire? Of some interest. Carpet bombing them? Dancing With The Stars is too important to miss.

But you bust out the nerve gas? OUTRAGE!

I think of it as being like how people rag on Truman for the decision to drop the A-bomb but ignore that an invasion of mainland Japan would have resulted in even more civilian causalities.

50 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:17:05am

COMDESRON TWO TWO

51 Balfour Rage  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:20:45am

Only on Fixed Noise: Chris Wallace just asked his guest why the Christopher Lane murder will not be prosecuted as a hate crime. Fucking idiot.

52 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:21:03am

re: #48 Targetpractice

I can understand it for actual Weapons of Mass Destruction, like nukes. I guess the chemical stuff can poison the landscape but so can our depleted uranium rounds and I don’t think normal explosive is really healthy either.

53 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:21:50am

re: #46 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I still do not get why people are more upset by these people killed by chemical attack than they are the people killed by indiscriminate shelling.

About a hundred thousand have died in this civil war already.

When I was in the Marines, I crosstrained in NBC response. Spent a month learning all about the weapons and the responses to their use, which meant we saw lots of video and photos of victims. Chemical weapons are truly horrific, terrifying weapons.

54 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:22:12am

re: #51 Balfour Rage

Only on Fixed Noise: Chris Wallace just asked his guest why the Christopher Lane murder will not be prosecuted as a hate crime. Fucking idiot.

He’s not even a fraction of the journalist his father was.

55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:24:03am

re: #53 Kragar

Didn’t hollow-point bullets get forbidden in the Hague convention? That one always befuddled me.

56 piratedan  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:24:14am

re: #18 Balfour Rage

yeah it’s loads worse than that Mission Accomplished bit of braggodocio from the aircraft carrier for a war that would last another 8 years.

57 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:26:29am

re: #55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Didn’t hollow-point bullets get forbidden in the Hague convention? That one always befuddled me.

There are a whole slew of weapons not allow due to the types of injuries they inflict. IIRC, serrated blades, barbed weapons and bayonets which can snap off in the wound are also illegal.

58 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:27:51am

re: #57 Kragar

There are a whole slew of weapons not allow due to the types of injuries they inflict. IIRC, serrated blades, barbed weapons and bayonets which can snap off in the wound are also illegal.

All falling under the general category of “human suffering,” i.e. any weapons that would prolong death or make it inevitable despite medical assistance are expressly forbidden by most international treaties on the rules of war.

59 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:28:59am

re: #58 Targetpractice

All falling under the general category of “human suffering,” i.e. any weapons that would prolong death or make it inevitable despite medical assistance are expressly forbidden by most international treaties on the rules of war.

Hence the chemical weapons ban as well.

60 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:29:06am

re: #55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Didn’t hollow-point bullets get forbidden in the Hague convention? That one always befuddled me.

If I remember correctly, Hollow Points and Dumb Dumbs were classified as inhumane because of the type of wounds (explosive) they caused V the type of wound a FMJ caused (puncture). But I could be wrong.

61 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:30:13am

re: #58 Targetpractice

See, that makes a lot more sense to me than lumping chemical weapons—which are worse at killing people than conventional weapons—in with WMDs along with nukes and genetically modified hantavirus and stuff like that.

I can completely understand that using chemical weapons means a line has been crossed in terms of wanton cruelty and suffering.

62 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:30:40am

re: #46 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I still do not get why people are more upset by these people killed by chemical attack than they are the people killed by indiscriminate shelling.

About a hundred thousand have died in this civil war already.

Yes, and we have seen profound efforts to end this via peaceful means. They failed.

Perhaps, well this is my take for all it’s $.02 worth.
That situation exists because the world at large failed (or did not even try) to draw a line like this in past times when weapons technology leaped up in lethality. Bows. Gunpowder. Air power. Military explosives and missiles.

It’s a worthwhile philosophical exercise to equate a whole bunch of troops or artillery or planes with conventional bombs to MIRV ICBM’s or nerve gas warheads. We are a deadly species and that needs to change. Agreed.

But the reality on the ground is enough explosives won’t fit on a single plane, missile or truck or briefcase as to wreck a city in a single flash of heat and light. We are relatively defenseless against those weapons so our fear drives us accordingly. Opposition to even trying to work up a defense against those weapons is wide right? “Won’t work” “Destabilizing” “Too expensive”

So we as a groups on nations agreed on some rules. The relevance of those rules is proportionate to the enforcement. It’s what we have, right or wrong.

So given the validity of your point, what would you have us do? Intervene based on casualty counts and ignore the weaponry used? If I get your point?

63 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:31:33am

re: #59 Kragar

Hence the chemical weapons ban as well.

Precisely. The Germans got read the riot act on multiple violations of the Hague Conventions, but most especially the usage of poison gasses on the battlefield. Granted, after the first usage everybody got in on the act. But it was the horrors of that war that lead all participants in WWII to avoid any usage of chemical weapons on the battlefield. Not that it stopped research of such.

64 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:33:02am

re: #63 Targetpractice

Precisely. The Germans got read the riot act on multiple violations of the Hague Conventions, but most especially the usage of poison gasses on the battlefield. Granted, after the first usage everybody got in on the act. But it was the horrors of that war that lead all participants in WWII to avoid any usage of chemical weapons on the battlefield. Not that it stopped research of such.

You’ve got to remember, in the early days of WWI, everyone thought the war would be over in a few weeks because all the wonders of science would wrap things up quickly.

65 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:33:23am

re: #55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Didn’t hollow-point bullets get forbidden in the Hague convention? That one always befuddled me.

The Conventions only apply to warfare—not police work or standing your ground. (I’ve seen sane reasons for their use in built-up areas.)

66 erik_t  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:33:34am

Historically, a lot of chemical weapons were also cloud-like by nature, and their direction really did depend on the direction of the wind. Artillery and the like have, at least on paper, a simple point-and-click interface that generally means you kill what you’re pointing at. It’s also much less persistent, or at least it was perceived to be at the time (before proliferation of cluster munitions and recognition of the vast fields of UXO’s in Europe).

I think chemical weapons are perceived as they are more for historical reasons than anything else. Today I think a military force could legally not use tear gas, but could shell the shit out of anything they saw. This seems a little dopey to me.

67 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:34:52am

re: #62 Political Atheist

My point is there are two separate forks for intervention. One is real Weapons of Mass Destruction, those being weapons capable of mass destruction. It doesn’t matter to me if that is area bombing a city or dropping a nuke on it, if the obviously intent is not to strike at military forces or industrial ones but to attack the civilization itself, then we’re back at WWII levels of civilization conflict and we really don’t want to be.

If chemical weapons are used, or civilians are being raped and tortured, then that’s another axis that we could decide to intervene along, that of wanton cruelty and suffering.

It’s the conflation of the two that’s problematic for me.

68 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:35:02am

re: #55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
re: #67 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Didn’t hollow-point bullets get forbidden in the Hague convention? That one always befuddled me.

The way these things are agreed upon kinda tells us there will be some strange compromises. Think of the give and take kind of conversations that would be part of assembling and wording the rules. Like most international agreements, they have weird quirks, like the one you point out.

69 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:36:52am

You also cannot use white phosphorous as a weapon. You can however use it to mark a target for artillery or an airstrike.

70 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:38:34am

re: #69 Kragar

You also cannot use white phosphorous as a weapon. You can however use it to mark a target for artillery or an airstrike.

Ma Deuce is only for anti-materiel employment. Don’t stand around materiel.

71 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:39:30am

re: #64 Kragar

You’ve got to remember, in the early days of WWI, everyone thought the war would be over in a few weeks because all the wonders of science would wrap things up quickly.

I’m pretty sure that’s the nature of every war these days, the idea that wars are short, relatively bloodless, and the “loser” easily determined. See also the First Battle of Bull Run.

72 Unabogie  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:39:34am

re: #51 Balfour Rage

Fox News exists only to gin up racism and resentment. When’s the last time they broke any actual news? It’s just a fever swamp where the most important story of last week, as every week, was Benghazi!, followed closely by Solyndra!

Although I guess now they have a new chew toy, and they can run those mugshots over and over and wonder why Obama won’t comment on a random murder where the perpetrators are being charged and no one is accusing the victim of being at fault for his own murder. Do they really not see the difference?

73 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:39:57am

re: #67 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Genocide is supposed to trigger intervention but that has been highly inconsistent. Very poorly applied, especially in the case of Africa as we well know. Europe? Hit fast and hard. Somalia? “No that’s not really a genocide”

Heck we can’t even be consistent with our aid rules. No aid for Egypt in the event of a coup right? Not this month. Somehow a military removal of an elected President was not a coup. The rule, or law really does not have “unless it’s a coup we like” in the language.

74 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:39:58am

re: #70 Decatur Deb

Ma Deuce is only for anti-materiel employment. Don’t stand around materiel.

Technically, rifles and body armor are materials.

Old grunt joke.

75 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:40:13am

re: #71 Targetpractice

I’m pretty sure that’s the nature of every war these days, the idea that wars are short, relatively bloodless, and the “loser” easily determined. See also the First Battle of Bull Run.

See also Cheney and Wolfowitz.

76 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:40:25am

re: #72 Unabogie

Fox News exists only to gin up racism and resentment. When’s the last time they broke any actual news? It’s just a fever swamp where the most important story of last week, as every week, was Benghazi!, followed closely by Solyndra!

Although I guess now they have a new chew toy, and they can run those mugshots over and over and wonder why Obama won’t comment on a random murder where the perpetrators are being charged and no one is accusing the victim of being at fault for his own murder. Do they really not see the difference?

I think they see the difference. What FNC banks on though is that their viewers don’t.

77 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:40:55am

re: #69 Kragar

And we used to. In the hedgerow fighting in WWII it was the preferred shell to use against the corner emplacements.

I read a diary from a guy who went through that hedgerow fighting and it’s basically the personal history of a rather nice guy from Idaho turning into a really understandably ruthless soldier. He stayed in the front lines for 189 days continuously.

78 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:41:39am

re: #71 Targetpractice

I’m pretty sure that’s the nature of every war these days, the idea that wars are short, relatively bloodless, and the “loser” easily determined. See also the First Battle of Bull Run.

“Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster.”

William Tecumseh Sherman

79 Bubblehead II  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:43:29am

bbiaw. Meat world stuff to do.

80 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:43:53am

re: #78 Kragar

“Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster.”

William Tecumseh Sherman

“It’s is good that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.”

Robert E. Lee

81 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:44:52am

re: #80 Targetpractice

“It’s is good that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.”

Robert E. Lee

I think he said that after Chancellorsville.

82 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:45:58am

Off to hang hummingbird feeders. So far this year, both the pear harvest and hummingbird migration are one month ahead of normal. BBL

83 GlutenFreeJesus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:47:09am

re: #38 AntonSirius

[Embedded content]

Yeah look at Armenia. A Christian nation. God really is helping the heck out of them.

84 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:47:33am

re: #24 bratwurst

Apparently Frum has never heard of CPAC.

85 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:48:49am

Saddest observation-One of the most revealing things about the lessons of war is that only the military lessons stick. The death, the injuries, the destruction is not enough to make us stop, it’s only enough to make us “better” at it. Our fight reflex is so strong, so primal it may be our exit from Drakes equation. Bigger faster weapons. And the destruction that one person can wield grows apace.

86 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:49:10am

re: #41 Kragar

Jindal: Racism Persists Because Minorities Cling to Their Heritage

Fake Kenneth the Page says what?

87 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:49:50am

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Off to hang hummingbird feeders. So far this year, both the pear harvest and hummingbird migration are one month ahead of normal. BBL

Our hummingbirds are crazy for scarlet French runner beans. Give them a try next year, they love the flowers.

88 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:51:21am

WMD and chemical warfare are intended to kill and injure people in vast numbers, whether spent from the ground, air or sea—at a distance. It removes the humanity from the those affected by those using those weapons who lose their own sense of seeing the other as human, nothing more than a “target” to be destroyed.

If we had to go back to clubs and other non-mechanical or technological weapons and had face to face encounters, there would be many fewer casualties, and probably never the kinds of wars and civil strife we see today. But we are too far gone for that as a species.

89 elizajane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:52:01am

re: #86 Lidane

Fake Kenneth the Page says what?

Because Piyush Jindal knew enough to toss his heritage out the window when it was expedient. Why can’t we just all be like the white kids?

90 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:53:46am

re: #85 Political Atheist

Saddest observation-One of the most revealing things about the lessons of war is that only the military lessons stick. The death, the injuries, the destruction is not enough to make us stop, it’s only enough to make us “better” at it. Our fight reflex is so strong, so primal it may be our exit from Drakes equation. Bigger faster weapons. And the destruction that one person can wield grows apace.

I don’t know about that. Sometimes the biggest regret is that wars not fought. I read an interview with Clinton a few years back and he was asked about the biggest regret of his presidency. His answer: not intervening in Rawanda. I have an easier time opposing intervention in Iraq and Syria because I have the luxury of not having to make the decision. It would be much harder to have the power and not use it while watching the suffering.

91 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:55:41am

re: #88 Justanotherhuman

WMD and chemical warfare are intended to kill and injure people in vast numbers, whether spent from the ground, air or sea—at a distance. It removes the humanity from the those affected by those using those weapons who lose their own sense of seeing the other as human, nothing more than a “target” to be destroyed.

If we had to go back to clubs and other non-mechanical or technological weapons and had face to face encounters, there would be many fewer casualties, and probably never the kinds of wars and civil strife we see today. But we are too far gone for that as a species.

And yet casualty figures for single battles conducted with clubs, spears, swords and lance are orders of magnitude greater than today.

92 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:56:57am

This shit is never going to stop.

Iraq blasts kill ‘at least 31’ in Baquba and elsewhere

bbc.co.uk

“Violence during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, which ended in early August, left more than 670 people dead - one of the highest tolls for years.”

Yeah, some “holy” month all right.

93 sagehen  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 11:56:59am

I might favor intervention in Syria if the rebels were one cohesive faction — but a nine-sided civil war, at least 4 of whom we dislike, doesn’t seem the best place to stick our nose in by attacking the one faction whose policies if they remain in power we can at least sort of predict.

94 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:00:02pm

re: #91 Kragar

And yet casualty figures for single battles conducted with clubs, spears, swords and lance are orders of magnitude greater than today.

Do we really have credible figures for that? I mean, it’s been reported that Methuselah allegedly lived for almost 1,000 years, also.

95 Stephen T.  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:00:56pm

re: #84 Lidane

Apparently Frum has never heard of CPAC.

I get the feeling that Frum is on the verge of changing his political affiliation, but is afraid of loosing his only friends if he does.

96 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:03:07pm

re: #95 Stephen T.

I get the feeling that Frum is on the verge of changing his political affiliation, but is afraid of loosing his only friends if he does.

Frum’s a dead-ender.

97 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:08:39pm

re: #89 elizajane

Because Piyush Jindal knew enough to toss his heritage out the window when it was expedient. Why can’t we just all be like the white kids?

98 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:09:27pm

re: #94 Justanotherhuman

Do we really have credible figures for that? I mean, it’s been reported that Methuselah allegedly lived for almost 1,000 years, also.

It is based on the percentage of people (generally men) in primitive societies who die as the result of violence. The numbers are small because the groups are small-but the percentages are high. For example See also Steven Pinker’s Better Angels of Our Nature

99 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:10:22pm

How about our own Poll? Help me out here lizards. What would we have our President do?
LGF Poll

As usual I voted first, for the military with no ground troops option. I think we may contrast heavily with the Reuters poll.

100 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:10:46pm

Meanwhile, the Parti Quebecois is showing its true colors.

Bill would ban Quebec state workers from wearing kippot, other religious symbols

101 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:14:25pm

re: #22 Gus

“Syria? Is that Justin Bieber’s new album?”

Syria? It’s the new artificial topping tree-huggers put on their pancakes.
/

102 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:14:47pm

re: #100 ProTARDISLiberal

Meanwhile, the Parti Quebecois is showing its true colors.

Bill would ban Quebec state workers from wearing kippot, other religious symbols

Stupidity never rests.

103 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:15:35pm

re: #99 Political Atheist

I went with the non-military option, not because I’m a pacifist moonbat, but because there are no good options involved in Syria. I’d rather not see our people in the line of fire.

104 piratedan  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:16:20pm

re: #99 Political Atheist

your poll does not offer any of the options I would prefer

insert Walmart location procurement team, open store, reap savings of seiing domestic bomb making equipment and rifles and handguns without those pesky checks in America

Issue the R’s in congress an ultimatum, either pass the existing budget and end the sequester or they’ll be dropped into Damascus to negotiate a peace treaty between all warring Syrian factions.

105 erik_t  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:16:31pm

re: #103 Lidane

I went with the non-military option, not because I’m a pacifist moonbat, but because there are no good options involved in Syria and I’d rather not see our people in the line of fire.

Pretty much. I’d move to limit weapons sales to all parties, but otherwise I don’t see that we have any intelligent move to make other than to stay out of it.

106 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:17:17pm
107 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:18:39pm

re: #99 Political Atheist

Went with the same option, though really I’m fairly certain by this point that any military strikes are likely to simply lead to an unfavorable outcome. Yeah, it sucks to say it, but the best thing we probably could do is to just let this “revolution” play itself out.

108 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:20:29pm

I don’t see anything wrong with celebrating our differences, with taking pride in what makes us unique.

Just because a culture is different than yours doesn’t mean it is any better or worse or less valid.

It should be clear to most of us that within individual populations, there are vast differences in intelligence level, religious background, economic status, etc.

That being in the case it is extremely stupid to group all blacks or all latinos or all muslims into one broad category in the same way it would be stupid to think all white people are rednecks.

109 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:20:39pm
110 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:21:44pm

re: #94 Justanotherhuman

Do we really have credible figures for that? I mean, it’s been reported that Methuselah allegedly lived for almost 1,000 years, also.

Check out the conquest of Gaul.

111 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:23:35pm

re: #98 calochortus

It is based on the percentage of people (generally men) in primitive societies who die as the result of violence. The numbers are small because the groups are small-but the percentages are high. For example See also Steven Pinker’s Better Angels of Our Nature

But we don’t know those percentages, do we? We can’t deal in confirmation bias while ignoring scientific proof. And there appears to be no scientific proof, but mere speculation.

112 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:24:02pm

re: #104 piratedan

insert Walmart location procurement team, open store, reap savings of seiing domestic bomb making equipment and rifles and handguns without those pesky checks in America

Sending a Walmart procurement team is also my standing option for Cuba. Get rid of that stupid, outdated Cold War relic of an embargo and flood the island with American dollars, tourists, and capitalism.

Issue the R’s in congress an ultimatum, either pass the existing budget and end the sequester or they’ll be dropped into Damascus to negotiate a peace treaty between all warring Syrian factions.

Youtube Video

113 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:24:28pm

So, I’m looking at the World Map data graphic from this article (scroll down), and all I can think of is, “Well, the Jesus Freaks will think this is proof of America’s Status as God’s Country.”

114 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:24:29pm

re: #104 piratedan

your poll does not offer any of the options I would prefer

insert Walmart location procurement team,

Hey now you are gonna get us in trouble at the UN!
(jk)

Oh hey as always if I left a good option off the poll, just put it in a comment. Shaping the poll options is always a challenge.

115 ObserverArt  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:25:30pm

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Thanks to the Bush gang and the invasion of Iraq, we have ZERO credibility about WMD in the rest of the world. Obama is not Bush, but that is hardly obvious outside the US. Unless their use is so obvious, widespread, and verifiable by multiple sources as to eliminate any possibility of doubt, we cannot intervene against that use or potential use. That is a hard and unpleasant reality but it is reality nonetheless.

Thank You!

Now, please if that could be explained to Cranky Pants McCain. The guy who seems to have forgotten all he learned with his Viet Nam experience and stated America should not be the policeman for the world.

116 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:26:05pm

re: #108 Eclectic Cyborg

I don’t see anything wrong with celebrating our differences, with taking pride in what makes us unique.

Just because a culture is different than yours doesn’t mean it is any better or worse or less valid.

It should be clear to most of us that within individual populations, there are vast differences in intelligence level, religious background, economic status, etc.

That being in the case it is extremely stupid to group all blacks or all latinos or all muslims into one broad category in the same way it would be stupid to think all white people are rednecks.

Music, Food, Textiles, Food, Art, Food, Architecture, Food.

Yes, there are many reasons to celebrate our differences, mostly by acknowledging that we have the categories in common.

117 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:29:58pm

Charles-about the poll, only those registered & in good standing (not blocked) can vote right?

118 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:30:03pm
Thanks to the Catholic Church, Mexican sexual attitudes and behaviors are strongly influenced by marianismo, the model of the obedient and docile woman. We are to emulate the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, and sacrifice our own needs for the sake of our husband and children. If you’re not a saint, you’re a whore. There was no in-between. By Mexican standards, I was an outspoken selfish slut.
119 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:31:29pm

re: #112 Lidane

Sending a Walmart procurement team is also my standing option for Cuba. Get rid of that stupid, outdated Cold War relic of an embargo and flood the island with American dollars, tourists, and capitalism.

[Embedded content]

Make that Costco & Ford, and I’m in. Screw Walmart.

120 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:33:23pm

Cheeez, if this is the best Russia has to offer…

Russian opposition leader Navalny briefly detained

news.yahoo.com

121 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:33:29pm

re: #111 Justanotherhuman

But we don’t know those percentages, do we? We can’t deal in confirmation bias while ignoring scientific proof. And there appears to be no scientific proof, but mere speculation.

19th century and thus rifles, muskets and cannons rather than spears and swords, but also better statistics on losses.

en.wikipedia.org

122 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:34:21pm

re: #111 Justanotherhuman

But we don’t know those percentages, do we? We can’t deal in confirmation bias while ignoring scientific proof. And there appears to be no scientific proof, but mere speculation.

I honestly don’t know how solid the evidence is-anthropologists have been fooled before, but there are certainly records of pre-industrial and tribal societies in the last couple hundred years that appear to support this thesis and anthropologists can establish cause of death in many cases from skeletal remains. You might say that modern gangs are an extension of tribal society and heaven knows they have pretty high death rates.

123 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:35:49pm

re: #94 Justanotherhuman

Do we really have credible figures for that? I mean, it’s been reported that Methuselah allegedly lived for almost 1,000 years, also.

Thermopylae comes immediately to mind.

124 Lidane  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:37:00pm

re: #119 Political Atheist

Make that Costco & Ford, and I’m in. Screw Walmart.

Works for me. I’m not a fan of Walmart either. I’m just using them as an example.

Send in the big retail chains, consumer products, and fast food. Flood the island with dollars and tourists. It won’t get rid of the Castro regime right away, but if it plants a seed that leads to Cuba becoming more open, then so be it.

125 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:38:00pm

re: #121 Feline Fearless Leader

19th century and thus rifles, muskets and cannons rather than spears and swords, but also better statistics on losses.

en.wikipedia.org

soldiers dying because of exposure, viral and bacterial diseases … .

I haven’t read the entire thread yet, so I apologize for barging into this. I was just feeling frustrated at those who seem to pine for the mythical past.

126 sagehen  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:39:35pm

re: #98 calochortus

It is based on the percentage of people (generally men) in primitive societies who die as the result of violence. The numbers are small because the groups are small-but the percentages are high. For example See also Steven Pinker’s Better Angels of Our Nature

In pre-antibiotic days, lots of people died from things that anyone today would easily recover from.

127 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:40:22pm

re: #124 Lidane

Totally agree, and as a photographer oh yes, love to catch some of that country. I’d even get into street photography there. The economics are compelling, the cultures sympatico.

128 steve_davis  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:41:54pm

re: #73 Political Atheist

Genocide is supposed to trigger intervention but that has been highly inconsistent. Very poorly applied, especially in the case of Africa as we well know. Europe? Hit fast and hard. Somalia? “No that’s not really a genocide”

Heck we can’t even be consistent with our aid rules. No aid for Egypt in the event of a coup right? Not this month. Somehow a military removal of an elected President was not a coup. The rule, or law really does not have “unless it’s a coup we like” in the language.

It’s not a coup because we aren’t calling it a coup. As simple as that.

129 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:42:20pm

re: #125 FemNaziBitch

soldiers dying because of exposure, viral and bacterial diseases … .

I haven’t read the entire thread yet, so I apologize for barging into this. I was just feeling frustrated at those who seem to pine for the mythical past.

Spanish Flu Pandemic during WWI…

130 ObserverArt  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:43:00pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

He’s not even a fraction of the journalist his father was.

Just like with Greenwaldo…is he even to be considered a journalist?

I have a high expectation for that word. I know it has been trampled and used by all kinds of hucksters and political deceivers. So, I find very few actual journalists. If anything…this site due to the mixture of viewpoints and people looking for some truth where it can be found is more valuable as a news source than any single media outlet.

Anymore the truth comes out of the wash. Lot’s of good washing here!

131 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:43:41pm

re: #121 Feline Fearless Leader

19th century and thus rifles, muskets and cannons rather than spears and swords, but also better statistics on losses.

en.wikipedia.org

Pretty modern, that history. Those weapons are mechanical, and in the case of cannons, can result in numerous kills at one time. We had established govts, the printing press and eyewitness reporting, with people involved in counting losses and recovering the dead and wounded.

It’s also rather sad that the Civil War saw the likeliest highest number of US residents killed in any conflict in which the US was involved.

132 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:45:19pm

re: #125 FemNaziBitch

soldiers dying because of exposure, viral and bacterial diseases … .

I haven’t read the entire thread yet, so I apologize for barging into this. I was just feeling frustrated at those who seem to pine for the mythical past.

Oh, I’m not pining, rather, I find it frustrating that people continue to rely on aggression and killing to get their desired result.

133 sagehen  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:46:05pm

re: #131 Justanotherhuman

It’s also rather sad that the Civil War saw the likeliest highest number of US residents killed in any conflict in which the US was involved.

um…

The US Civil War killed 2% of the US population, maimed twice that many.

The Indian Wars? Killed about 60% of the Indians.

134 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:47:32pm

re: #122 calochortus

I honestly don’t know how solid the evidence is-anthropologists have been fooled before, but there are certainly records of pre-industrial and tribal societies in the last couple hundred years that appear to support this thesis and anthropologists can establish cause of death in many cases from skeletal remains. You might say that modern gangs are an extension of tribal society and heaven knows they have pretty high death rates.

IIRC, isn’t there anthropological theories that some of the ceremonial or “sham” war displays some societies had were essentially a way to avoid full-out war and reduce casualties since the societies could not afford them beyond a certain point.

In out case we have soccer and “hand-egg”.
;)

135 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:49:45pm

Oy, the world sure is useless at times.

136 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:49:50pm

Well kudos to Charles. The Polling system is really tight. Dragon_Lady my wife signed in for a sec to vote the poll and can’t. That means the polling system is really tight, no spam no trolls, no dirty socks. So for the record, her vote is non military only.

137 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:49:55pm

re: #128 steve_davis

It’s not a coup because we aren’t calling it a coup. As simple as that.

Genocide vs Ethnic Cleansing?

138 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:50:15pm

re: #134 Feline Fearless Leader

IIRC, isn’t there anthropological theories that some of the ceremonial or “sham” war displays some societies had were essentially a way to avoid full-out war and reduce casualties since the societies could not afford them beyond a certain point.

In out case we have soccer and “hand-egg”.
;)

I think you are correct. I also recall Jared Diamond saying something about in New Guinea when men meet a stranger the first thing they do is sit down and try to figure out if they are vaguely related to each other so they won’t have to try to kill each other.

139 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:51:58pm

re: #128 steve_davis

It’s not a coup because we aren’t calling it a coup. As simple as that.

Painfully true.

140 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:53:07pm

re: #134 Feline Fearless Leader

IIRC, isn’t there anthropological theories that some of the ceremonial or “sham” war displays some societies had were essentially a way to avoid full-out war and reduce casualties since the societies could not afford them beyond a certain point.

In out case we have soccer and “hand-egg”.
;)

A lot of the wars between the early Greeks were that way. They had specific rules and rituals about battles, because they still had to make sure they had enough men to go home and grow crops, etc. King Pyhrrus was considered one of the greatest generals of his day, until he came up against the Romans, who didn’t fight according to the same rules.

141 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:54:14pm

Also, let’s not pretend Morsi was acting as an elected leader. He and his party were doing their damnedest to change things in to a defacto dictatorship.

142 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:54:51pm

re: #126 sagehen

In pre-antibiotic days, lots of people died from things that anyone today would easily recover from.

Excellent book on the subject, in case anyone is interested.

143 sagehen  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:55:07pm

re: #140 Kragar

A lot of the wars between the early Greeks were that way. They had specific rules and rituals about battles, because they still had to make sure they had enough men to go home and grow crops, etc. King Pyhrrus was considered one of the greatest generals of his day, until he came up against the Romans, who didn’t fight according to the same rules.

Would that by the same King Pyhrrus from whom we get the phrase “pyrric victory”?

144 ObserverArt  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:55:20pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

“It’s is good that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.”

Robert E. Lee

A great quote. Too bad a typical chickenhawk like Cheney would have no real feel for the concept behind it.

145 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:55:53pm

re: #134 Feline Fearless Leader

IIRC, isn’t there anthropological theories that some of the ceremonial or “sham” war displays some societies had were essentially a way to avoid full-out war and reduce casualties since the societies could not afford them beyond a certain point.

In out case we have soccer and “hand-egg”.
;)

Today, I think we call it Football.

146 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:56:00pm

re: #143 sagehen

Would that by the same King Pyhrrus from whom we get the phrase “pyrric victory”?

Yep.

His name is famous for the term “Pyrrhic victory” which refers to an exchange at the Battle of Asculum. In response to congratulations for winning a costly victory over the Romans, he is reported to have said:

” Ἂν ἔτι μίαν μάχην Ῥωμαίους νικήσωμεν, ἀπολούμεθα παντελῶς”
“If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined”.[12][13]

147 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:56:12pm

re: #131 Justanotherhuman

Pretty modern, that history. Those weapons are mechanical, and in the case of cannons, can result in numerous kills at one time. We had established govts, the printing press and eyewitness reporting, with people involved in counting losses and recovering the dead and wounded.

It’s also rather sad that the Civil War saw the likeliest highest number of US residents killed in any conflict in which the US was involved.

That would actually be pretty likely if you think about it. Both sides were US residents and thus all casualties fall into that category. And it was essentially the only large-scale conflict fought on US territory with fairly modern weapons. The later world wars were generally fought outside US territory and the continental US in particular.

148 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:57:51pm

re: #142 FemNaziBitch

Yep, excellent book. I think I read it after you mentioned it a few months ago, so thanks!

149 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:58:03pm

re: #145 FemNaziBitch

Today, I think we call it Football.

I should have said football and Hand-egg since what the US calls “soccer” is football everywhere else.

150 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:58:07pm

re: #132 Justanotherhuman

Oh, I’m not pining, rather, I find it frustrating that people continue to rely on aggression and killing to get their desired result.

Considering how dismally we prepare young children for school …

(Just read some article on the necessity of verbal skills—of which many young children are woefully starved of the necessary attention to acquire them.)

151 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:58:54pm

re: #143 sagehen

Would that by the same King Pyhrrus from whom we get the phrase “pyrric victory”?

That would be the one. He won the battle, but couldn’t win the war.

There were other accounts where Greek armies reached the point in battles where they would traditionally surrender, only to be massacred by the Romans when they did so.

152 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:58:58pm

re: #147 Feline Fearless Leader

That would actually be pretty likely if you think about it. Both sides were US residents and thus all casualties fall into that category. And it was essentially the only large-scale conflict fought on US territory with fairly modern weapons. The later world wars were generally fought outside US territory and the continental US in particular.

Wasn’t the Civil War actually the impetus for modern weapons? (gattling gun)

153 calochortus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:59:03pm

BBL

154 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 12:59:36pm

I’m beginning to broaden a little bit. Musically.

Youtube Video

155 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:01:23pm

re: #154 ProTARDISLiberal

I’m being to broaden a little bit. Musically.

[Embedded content]

shades of James Bond movie?

156 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:04:34pm

re: #155 FemNaziBitch

Yeah. Or here is one that is really awesome once you look up the lyrics.

Youtube Video

157 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:05:17pm

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

Wasn’t the Civil War actually the impetus for modern weapons? (gattling gun)

Such weapons were already being designed. The Gatling gun was actually designed with the intention to reduce the size of armies and to reduce casualties.

158 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:05:42pm

Here are the lyrics.

(Come On Eileen)
(Come On Eileen)

Poor old Johnny Ray
Sounded sad upon the radio
But he moved a million hearts in mono
Our mothers cried
Sang along
Who’d blame them
You’ve grown, so grown
Now I must say more than ever
(Come On Eileen)
Too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye, aye
And we can sing just like our fathers

Come on Eileen
Oh, I swear what he means (what he means)
At this moment you mean everything
You in that dress
My thoughts I confess
Verge on dirty
Oh, come on Eileen

(Come On Eileen)

These people round here
Wear beaten down eyes sunk
In smoke dried faces
They’re so resigned to what their fate is
But not us (no not ever)
But not us (not ever)
We are far too young and clever
(Remember)
Too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye, aye
And you’ll hum this tune forever

Come on Eileen
Oh, I swear what he means
Aah, come on let’s
Take off everything
That pretty red dress
Eileen (tell him yes)
Aah, come on let’s
Aah, come on Eileen

That pretty red dress
Eileen (tell him yes)
Aah, come on let’s
Aah, come on Eileen

Come on Eileen, too-rye-aye
Come on Eileen, too-rye-aye
Now you’re full grown
Now you have shown
Oh, Eileen

Say, come on Eileen
These things they are real and I know
How you feel
Now I must say more than ever
Things round here have changed
I say, too-ra-loo-ra, too-ra-loo-rye-aye

Come on Eileen
Oh, I swear (what he means)
At this moment, you mean everything
You in that dress, my thoughts I confess
Which are dirty
Aah, come on Eileen

Aah, come on Eileen
Oh, I swear (what he means)
At this moment, you mean everything
You in that dress, my thoughts I confess
Well, they’re dirty
Come on Eileen

Come on Eileen…

159 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:06:02pm

re: #157 Kragar

That didn’t work.

160 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:07:07pm

re: #136 Political Atheist

Well kudos to Charles. The Polling system is really tight. Dragon_Lady my wife signed in for a sec to vote the poll and can’t. That means the polling system is really tight, no spam no trolls, no dirty socks. So for the record, her vote is non military only.

The poll system only allows one vote per IP address. It’s actually not that hard to get around it, but there’s really no foolproof way to protect an online poll from multiple voting, if someone’s determined enough.

The IP address check is relatively effective, but it does have the drawback of possibly blocking people who use proxy systems and share IP addresses. (Less of a problem these days since AOL has declined in popularity - AOL was the biggest proxy-based network.)

161 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:09:58pm

OT, but FFS:


Is there no end to the stupid?? Apparently the well they draw from is bottomless.

162 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:10:09pm

Truly scary shit.

163 Kragar  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:10:35pm

re: #159 ProTARDISLiberal

That didn’t work.

Image: My-love-you-will-stop-this-car_fb_91046.jpg

164 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:11:38pm

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

Wasn’t the Civil War actually the impetus for modern weapons? (gattling gun)

There’s been a continuous search for an effective automatic weapon since the invention of firearms (and arguably since the bow itself). DaVinci had sketches of what were essentially volley guns and there were various designs used in small numbers previous to Gatling’s designs. And non-Gatling multiple-barrel crank guns were in use up to the early 20th century (Gardner gun or Nordenfelt gun are two examples.)

Maxim pretty much made the next revolutionary step in 1884. He basically made the first true “machine gun” since the gun did not require additional human effort to fire beyond keeping the trigger pulled and having ammo.

165 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:11:41pm
166 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:11:58pm
167 Teukka  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:14:27pm

re: #53 Kragar

When I was in the Marines, I crosstrained in NBC response. Spent a month learning all about the weapons and the responses to their use, which meant we saw lots of video and photos of victims. Chemical weapons are truly horrific, terrifying weapons.

I concur. WMD’s bring a whole new level of terror and horror to a conflict. And chemicals are the most “benign” of the unholy WMD trinity (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical). Biological and nuclear are far uglier, and I know many have difficulties grasping the true monstrosity of those two weapon types.

For biological weapons, you have a lead time until the target realizes they are under attack, during which the pathogen can roam freely, meaning that once the response begins, it has to be herculanean to be effective. And I haven’t even touched the subject of all the interesting (in the ancient Chinese curse sense) pathogens, some of which will force authorities to very unpalatable but very necessary decisions and actions.

As for nuclear, you are lucky if you are in the direct kill zone if you have the great misfortune of being too close to one of them going off. Because less than half of those that a nuclear detonation kills are killed directly, the rest die slowly from various combinations of burn and blast injuries and Acute Radiation Syndrome. I will spare you the gory details, but imagine people lingering on for weeks, but where the outcome is guaranteed to be death, and where the suffering and pain is immense (I’ve read descriptions that even Fentanyl will only take the edge off the pain). Then imagine the complication that potent painkillers are exclusively reserved for patients who have a chance of surviving…

And the effect on people once the media begins broadcasting images of attacks with the two latter types of weapons is anyones guess, but I suspect, partly because I know people in the Civil Defence, that the fool who uses them first will find themselves in the unenviable position of being Hostis Humani Generis, there will be no shortage of volunteers to rid the world of such a fool. And that governments will be forced to act, not as much to be seen done something, but to ensure that those who go after the fool follow the laws of war.

What worries me with the use of chemical weapons in Syria is that those using them (and I suspect strongly it is Assad and his pals) have shown that they do not care, or that they are intent of provoking others into joining the fight. I pray to God this doesn’t escalate beyond chemical weapons, because the pictures of those attacks will be quite tame indeed compared to biological or nuclear attacks. And so will the outcry of the public.

168 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:14:39pm
170 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:16:53pm

re: #168 Gus

[Embedded content]

And the world doesn’t care.

171 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:17:53pm

re: #166 Gus

[Embedded content]

…Bombing brought about negotiated solutions in Bosnia and Kosovo, with semi-satisfactory outcomes many years later. Bombing in Iraq and Afghanistan led to collapsed regimes and long American military deployments, with far less satisfactory outcomes. I’ll take the semi-satisfactory outcome any day, though it may well require some sort of international force to stabilize Syria once Bashar is gone.

172 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:18:24pm

Ok, well after that last post, I’m done with the News today.

173 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:19:15pm

Heaven

174 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:20:03pm

re: #173 FemNaziBitch

Library?

175 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:20:29pm

re: #160 Charles Johnson

Thanks, it’s a great feature. When the right news item comes up it’s the best. If D_L or LeftWingConspirator want to vote later they easily will on a wifi around here apart from mine.

176 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:20:46pm

So True

177 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:21:03pm

re: #174 PhillyPretzel

Library?

Yeah.

178 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:22:41pm

re: #164 Feline Fearless Leader

There’s been a continuous search for an effective automatic weapon since the invention of firearms (and arguably since the bow itself). DaVinci had sketches of what were essentially volley guns and there were various designs used in small numbers previous to Gatling’s designs. And non-Gatling multiple-barrel crank guns were in use up to the early 20th century (Gardner gun or Nordenfelt gun are two examples.)

Maxim pretty much made the next revolutionary step in 1884. He basically made the first true “machine gun” since the gun did not require additional human effort to fire beyond keeping the trigger pulled and having ammo.

Impetus was the wrong word. I guess I don’t know the right word. The Civil War was the “time” or the economic reason that things came together for the gattling gun to be produced.

179 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:24pm

And another.

Youtube Video

I should force my MBC to listen to this song. Also, it’s rap. He hates that. I don’t.

180 Bear  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:54pm

re: #177 FemNaziBitch

Please Where is it?

181 bratwurst  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:24:00pm

If you are familiar with his work or not, Neil Hamburger is a very funny Twitter follow:

182 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:24:08pm

re: #176 FemNaziBitch

So True

Speaking of trees, does anyone have any experience or data on making (or I guess purchasing) a cat tree?

Realized I have high ceilings and unused space (so to speak) and two young cats that like/want to reach any available high surface. So I am considering how to channel that desire to specific spots in the apartment where they will thus cause less chaos; e.g. instead of the kitchen counters and my dresser.

183 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:26:10pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Here is a yahoo search for cat trees. search.yahoo.com

184 Bear  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:26:24pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Pet chain-stores?

185 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:27:20pm

Logical fallacy. Or is that logical laziness? “To the interventionists: Colin Powell supports military intervention in Syria therefore your argument is invalid!”

186 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:27:43pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

There is a guy near us that makes them to order. Then just put shelves up high as a cat run. Good prices at the link below

cccatfurniture.com

187 jaunte  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:27:52pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Here’s modular system; you could probably do a DIY version:
architectureartdesigns.com

188 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:31:19pm

re: #178 FemNaziBitch

Impetus was the wrong word. I guess I don’t know the right word. The Civil War was the “time” or the economic reason that things came together for the gattling gun to be produced.

That would fit. There are constant developments in military hardware being played and experimented all the time. A “new” conflict brings a sudden influx of interest and funding into the picture and leads to evolutionary or revolutionary tech getting tried out and possibly adopted on a much quicker cycle.

Besides Gatlings gun getting use in the ACW (and thus being displayed for other military nations to consider) there was also considerable development with breech-loading rifles, breech-loading cannon, and the final realization that rifled cannon were the death knell of masonry-based fortifications. (Much like the cannon itself was the doom of the old-style castle.)

And the firepower and increased range of rifled weapons were the end of the line tactics (with some variation) that had been the norm for European warfare for a few centuries.

John Keegan’s _The Face of Battle_ is a short study in a number of battles in Europe and compares scale, tactics, unit interactions, etc. A good start in looking at these sort of things.

amazon.com

189 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:32:49pm

re: #184 Bear

Pet chain-stores?

In those I am seeing these massive combinations of plywood, sisal, and carpeting. Trying to find something a bit more “elegant”. I’ve seen some samples on-line where an IKEA system is being “hacked” to serve as the main pole for shelves and pads the cats can climb or sit on.

190 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:33:48pm

‘While both urged swift military action by the Obama administration, Corker said the president should seek approval from Congress before acting. He predicted there would be bipartisan support for a measure that authorizes military action against the Syrian regime.’

As long as it’s tied to de-funding Obamacare.

191 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:34:13pm

re: #180 Bear

Please Where is it?

Heaven, where is heaven?

No clue, it was in my inbox today from this website.

192 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:34:50pm
193 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:35:11pm

re: #188 Feline Fearless Leader

I put it in my Amazon Wish list.

194 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:36:11pm

re: #187 jaunte

Here’s modular system; you could probably do a DIY version:
architectureartdesigns.com

That’s pretty impressive!

195 klys  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:36:52pm

re: #189 Feline Fearless Leader

In those I am seeing these massive combinations of plywood, sisal, and carpeting. Trying to find something a bit more “elegant”. I’ve seen some samples on-line where an IKEA system is being “hacked” to serve as the main pole for shelves and pads the cats can climb or sit on.

Check out Amarkat. Good quality, and there’s some more compact options there.

We’re on our second from them.

196 jaunte  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:36:57pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

“Test pilot Reuben Snodgrass flew the prototype, registration No. NX90850, for the first time on November 15, 1947”
en.wikipedia.org

197 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:36:58pm

re: #187 jaunte

Here’s modular system; you could probably do a DIY version:
architectureartdesigns.com

I’ve thought about using those large diameter PVC pipes thru the walls with ramps up to some of them, or put them near tall things like bookshelves or the fridge. The cat could go all over the house without ever setting one paw on the floor.

198 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:37:38pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

There were others. All failed because they required owners to know how to drive, fly, and use turn signals.

199 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:37:52pm

re: #180 Bear

re: #191 FemNaziBitch

Stockholm Library. At least that is what the web address says.

200 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:38:29pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Speaking of trees, does anyone have any experience or data on making (or I guess purchasing) a cat tree?

Realized I have high ceilings and unused space (so to speak) and two young cats that like/want to reach any available high surface. So I am considering how to channel that desire to specific spots in the apartment where they will thus cause less chaos; e.g. instead of the kitchen counters and my dresser.

I don’t think you can grow cats on trees.

201 klys  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:38:56pm

re: #187 jaunte

Here’s modular system; you could probably do a DIY version:
architectureartdesigns.com

My cats are spoiled enough already!

/is totally not plotting this for the next house…

202 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:39:05pm

re: #199 PhillyPretzel

Stockholm Library. At least that is what the web address says.

Heaven is in Stockholm.

I never would have guessed.

203 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:39:06pm

re: #191 FemNaziBitch

Heaven, where is heaven?

No clue, it was in my inbox today from this website.

Stockholm, Sweden according to the photo.

204 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:39:10pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

“Unfortunately”? Considering the number of idiots I view on the roads these days, I shudder at the thought of those same morons behind the controls of a flying car.

205 Bear  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:39:11pm

re: #191 FemNaziBitch

Checked site. Site indicates Stockholm as location. Tnxre: #199 PhillyPretzel

TNX

206 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:40:35pm

re: #192 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

When a flying car is on the street does it then become a driving airplane?

207 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:41:18pm

re: #206 Gus

When a flying car is on the street does it then become a driving airplane?

It’s all a matter of perspective.

208 jaunte  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:41:19pm

re: #206 Gus

When a flying car is on the street does it then become a driving airplane?

The Snodgrass Conundrum

209 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:42:16pm

re: #206 Gus

When a flying car is on the street does it then become a driving airplane?

Unless it arrives on the street at high speed from a steep angle. Then it’s a Smoking Hole.

210 jaunte  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:42:46pm

If I’m flying upside down, do I use the right turn signal or the left?

211 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:43:14pm

re: #210 jaunte

If I’m flying upside down, do I use the right turn signal or the left?

Yep.

212 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:45:17pm

re: #210 jaunte

If I’m flying upside down, do I use the right turn signal or the left?

You use the missiles.

213 jaunte  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:45:25pm

re: #201 klys

My cats are spoiled enough already!

214 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:46:36pm

Here you can see the simple installation procedure.

Why it’s so simple you can even do it in your business suit.

215 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:49:30pm

re: #213 jaunte

Na Na Na Na Na Na….BATCAT!

216 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:49:48pm

re: #213 jaunte

[Embedded content]

He’s the Feline Overlord Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

217 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:49:52pm

re: #195 klys

Check out Amarkat. Good quality, and there’s some more compact options there.

We’re on our second from them.

whiskerstudio.com

Here’s a place that has both wooden furniture trees and one of the IKEA-based shelf systems.

218 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:50:14pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Speaking of trees, does anyone have any experience or data on making (or I guess purchasing) a cat tree?

Realized I have high ceilings and unused space (so to speak) and two young cats that like/want to reach any available high surface. So I am considering how to channel that desire to specific spots in the apartment where they will thus cause less chaos; e.g. instead of the kitchen counters and my dresser.

I’m trying to design something for the new house. Hubs wants a balcony/mezzanine thingie to look over the main floor. I have nightmares of the kittens leaping to their deaths…

219 jaunte  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:50:44pm

Have to keep that shot and compare his jaw to Ben Affleck’s.

220 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:50:59pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

I don’t think you can grow cats on trees.

The Cetagandans probably have it figured out.
;)

221 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:51:59pm

re: #182 Feline Fearless Leader

Speaking of trees, does anyone have any experience or data on making (or I guess purchasing) a cat tree?

Realized I have high ceilings and unused space (so to speak) and two young cats that like/want to reach any available high surface. So I am considering how to channel that desire to specific spots in the apartment where they will thus cause less chaos; e.g. instead of the kitchen counters and my dresser.

also…have you seen this place?

The San Diego Cat House

222 klys  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:52:29pm

re: #217 Feline Fearless Leader

whiskerstudio.com

Here’s a place that has both wooden furniture trees and one of the IKEA-based shelf systems.

Again, my cats are completely spoiled.

/notes the pillow box.

223 abolitionist  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:54:18pm

re: #197 FemNaziBitch

I’ve thought about using those large diameter PVC pipes thru the walls with ramps up to some of them, or put them near tall things like bookshelves or the fridge. The cat could go all over the house without ever setting one paw on the floor.

I like the multiple stacked flats suspended by cable from ceiling idea. I think a pair of such, next to each other, and with the levels staggered, would be a nifty simple design. Maybe tilt the flats a few degrees from horizontal.

A similar result could be achieved with standard bookshelves attached to a wall. Parts of them might even be ok to use for books.

224 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:54:32pm

re: #218 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m trying to design something for the new house. Hubs wants a balcony/mezzanine thingie to look over the main floor. I have nightmares of the kittens leaping to their deaths…

Image: TankCorps.jpg

Kittez say: “Death from above!”

225 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:55:06pm

re: #213 jaunte

[Embedded content]

226 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:55:51pm

I design and arrange everything in the house with the 4-legged family members in mind. Cat Overlord hasn’t yet complained.

227 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:57:20pm

re: #221 Backwoods_Sleuth

also…have you seen this place?

The San Diego Cat House

Great stuff. If I wasn’t renting I would consider something extravagant and wide-ranging along with more cats to use it.

However, I have less space, and probably some limits on how far I can go with things.

228 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:57:48pm

re: #196 jaunte

“Test pilot Reuben Snodgrass flew the prototype, registration No. NX90850, for the first time on November 15, 1947”
en.wikipedia.org

I just now caught-on that Snodgress was a real person. Sounds like a name some scriptwriter would come-up with.

229 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:58:17pm

re: #227 Feline Fearless Leader

Great stuff. If I wasn’t renting I would consider something extravagant and wide-ranging along with more cats to use it.

However, I have less space, and probably some limits on how far I can go with things.

You have to think 3 dimensionally with cats. Remember to them, the ceiling is just another wall.

230 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:58:29pm

re: #224 Feline Fearless Leader

Image: TankCorps.jpg

Kittez say: “Death from above!”

heh…I’m still a victim of “Death from below!”
I never see it coming…
The scarring shall be impressive…

231 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:59:08pm

I can haz Ford Nucleon made into flying car????

232 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:00:14pm

re: #229 FemNaziBitch

You have to think 3 dimensionally with cats. Remember to them, the ceiling is just another wall.

So are your legs, arms and backs…

233 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:00:33pm

re: #231 Pavlovian Hive Mind

I can haz Ford Nucleon made into flying car????

A flying nuclear reactor. It’s been done.

234 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:02:25pm

re: #232 Backwoods_Sleuth

So are your legs, arms and backs…

This is true, excellent observation!

235 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:02:25pm

re: #233 Targetpractice

A flying nuclear reactor. It’s been done.

What could possibly go wrong?????

236 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:04:57pm

re: #229 FemNaziBitch

You have to think 3 dimensionally with cats. Remember to them, the ceiling is just another wall.

Yep. I have seen the cats cross the “living room” without touching the floor; window sill -> side board -> leap to dining room table -> leap to wingback chair -> onto other window sill.

A lot of the designs I see here and there are fairly low; e.g. 4’ or less I already have wide window sills on all rooms that are about 3’ up. Those are used for transit except where there are lots of plant pots - and in that spot the side board is there to walk on instead. Lower than that is various boxes and such to crawl into and hide behind.

And since I have 12’ ceilings and a relative lack of wall artwork in the one room I figure that would be the potential spot to “go tall” with something that might go 8-10’ up, anchor to the wall and possibly lead to a ledge for looking out a window and possibly some high staggered ledges on the wall in the other direction. (The issue at this point becomes having things properly anchored and having a ladder that can get me that high - hopefully can borrow one.)

237 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:07:02pm

re: #228 FemNaziBitch

I think that last name was in Harry Potter.

238 Bear  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:07:23pm

Expect many of you will recall this.public.asu.edu

239 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:08:02pm

re: #236 Feline Fearless Leader

sounds great! Maybe a couple of small solitary carpeted ledges nearby the climbing tower so they can smugly show off their leaping abilities?

240 Gus  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:09:36pm

re: #233 Targetpractice

A flying nuclear reactor. It’s been done.

Also by Convair.

241 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:11:06pm

re: #239 Backwoods_Sleuth

sounds great! Maybe a couple of small solitary carpeted ledges nearby the climbing tower so they can smugly show off their leaping abilities?

Hehe. Given some of the failures I’ve seen I’ll probably keep those challenges relatively low. Though as the “older”* cat has lost a little weight her leaping has gotten better.

* - 2-year-old with a 1+ year-old co-overlord.

242 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:18:16pm

Well, I have to remove pet hair from the carpet.

bbl

243 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:30:26pm


Comedy Central Video

244 Robert O.  Sun, Aug 25, 2013 4:46:12pm

I am very much opposed to direct military intervention as well, for the reasons that there are no obvious “good guys” in this conflict, and there are no good options for the US.

Nevertheless, I believe the US doesn’t have to do nothing. There is much that the US can do to improve the situation. For example, 2 million Syrian refugees have fled to Jordan - a fact that has placed enormous strain on that country and rapidly causing it to destabilize. Syrian refugees are competing with locals for jobs, and require medical services, housing, and other necessities which often puts refugees in direct competition with Jordanian locals, creating tension and potential conflict. The US (as well as the EU, Arab League) can help alleviate that situation. With Egypt also in flames, it should be a US priority to contain regional disturbance, and stop destabilization from spilling over national borders. Another country that could be on the precipice is Lebanon. Here again, this country is not yet at war. The US should work with that government to ensure it stays out of war. The US/EU can provide humanitarian aid, and use our influence to work with regional governments to tamper the flames and pre-empt violence.

245 Quicklund  Mon, Aug 26, 2013 9:00:18am

Syria and Israel have been officially in a state of war non-stop since 1967. A US strike on Syria will inevitably be seen by millions as the USA directly coming to Israel’s aid against an Arab foe. The chances for destablizing the region seem immense. The only way to do this it seems to me would be under authorizaton approved by the UN and also by the Arab League.


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