1 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:42:57am
2 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:43:57am

re: #1 Randall Gross

With baited breath. //

3 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:44:00am
4 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:44:00am

Obummer is lying! Putin says Assad is innocent and would never use chemical weapons against his own people!

/Drudge

5 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:44:49am

Sure doesn’t look like a setting for a war announcement.

6 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:45:52am

I wonder if that Kos Kid from yesterday will hang up his Obama poster again.

7 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:46:12am
8 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:46:46am

Right now I am at Wegman’s in Valley Forge and you would never guess that the President is about to speak on any subject.

9 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:46:46am

re: #4 Lidane

Obummer is lying! Putin says Assad is innocent and would never use chemical weapons against his own people!

/Drudge

And Snowbunny is helping exposing it all with his NSA data!!!!!!

10 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:46:51am

re: #6 Killgore Trout

I wonder if that Kos Kid from yesterday will hang up his Obama poster again.

Mom said no more thumbtacks in the wall.

11 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:46:53am

re: #7 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

O_o

12 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:46:56am

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Sure doesn’t look like a setting for a war announcement.

But it’s a perfect setting to shame Congress into doing their damn jobs and getting back to Washington for a vote.

13 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:47:34am

I called this in the last thread!

14 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:48:18am

re: #2 PhillyPretzel

With baited breath. //

A herring between your teeth?

15 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:48:43am

re: #12 Lidane

But it’s a perfect setting to shame Congress into doing their damn jobs and getting back to Washington for a vote.

Maybe that’s his plan. Passing the buck to congress is a guarantee that nothing will happen.

16 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:48:49am

re: #13 Randall Gross

Waiting for someone to show up with a “Sarah Palin Agrees” sign.

17 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:49:32am

re: #2 PhillyPretzel

With baited breath. //

You really should brush your teeth and gargle

18 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:49:40am

re: #14 Decatur Deb

lol. Nah just a small piece of soft pretzel. :)

19 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:50:17am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Maybe that’s his plan. Passing the buck to congress is a guarantee that nothing will happen.

War is their buck.

20 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:51:34am

re: #7 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

21 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:52:04am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Maybe that’s his plan. Passing the buck to congress is a guarantee that nothing will happen.

They oppose him on everything. Almost guaranteed you’re right should he approach them.

22 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:52:14am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Maybe that’s his plan. Passing the buck to congress is a guarantee that nothing will happen.

Because the President is the one that declares war. The Constitution says so.

23 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:52:19am

I had the White House site up and forgot about it. I jumped when he started talking.

24 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:52:32am

re: #19 Decatur Deb

War is their buck.

Even the military industrial complex can’t get this congress to do anything.
I doubt anything will pass, maybe a strongly worded condemnation or something.

25 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:53:18am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Even the military industrial complex can’t get this congress to do anything.
I doubt anything will pass, maybe a strongly worded condemnation or something.

Good. Until we know who to screw, we should screw no one.

26 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:53:25am
27 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:54:00am

but!

28 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:54:19am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Guess he didn’t get my letter.

29 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:54:33am

re: #25 Decatur Deb

Good. Until we know who to screw, we should screw no one.

That’s good dating advice as well.

30 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:54:35am
31 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:54:38am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

[Obama: “I will seek authorization for the use of force from the American people’s representatives in Congress.”
1:54 PM - 31 Aug 2013]

Oh, this is going to get messy.

32 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:54:49am

The impeachment proceedings should be a welcome change from the Obamacare repeals.

Oh, wait, that wasn’t the kind of congressional action you had in mind?

33 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:55:21am

re: #29 Eclectic Cyborg

That’s good dating advice as well.

All’s fair…

34 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:56:22am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]”I will seek authorization for the use of force from the American people’s representatives in Congress.”

Good. They’ll go into brainlock.

35 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:00am

Ok so wait, does this mean the U.S. IS going to attack Syria no matter what or does the POTUS have no authority to launch such a strike without congressional approval?

36 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:04am

Well, that was close. I really thought action in Syria was a done deal. Looks unlikely now.

37 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:16am
38 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:28am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

re: #30 Charles Johnson

“After which, Congress and I shall consult with the major TV networks to see what best fits their programming scheduling”
/

39 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:35am

Also, that puts House GOPers in a tough spot doesn’t it? Either they *GASP* support Obama OR decide to stand against him and not intervene in Syria.

40 EmmaAnne  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:43am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Seeking authorization from Congress? I forgot presidents ever did that.

I’d like to see some non-military action in the meantime. Someone a few days ago suggested doing something about refugees or victims of the attack. Maybe “action” doesn’t always have to mean missiles?

41 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:49am

en.wikipedia.org

Some rumors have it that it was a mustard type of gas used.

42 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:57:55am
43 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:58:18am

Bravo, Obama. He’s playing the co-equal branches of government cards very well, and hitting the UN along the way.

44 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:58:19am

Forget it. The House won’t approve of military force in Syria.

45 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:58:20am

John Bam Bam McCain is probably going into apoplexy right now

46 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:58:31am

re: #34 Decatur Deb

Good. They’ll go into brainlock.

I would rather have these idiots go into brainlock over Syria than wasting more time on Obamacare repeals.

47 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:58:58am

re: #44 Gus

Forget it. The House won’t approve of military force in Syria.

You think they would if we had a GOP President?

48 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:06am

re: #44 Gus

Forget it. The House won’t approve of military force in Syria.

Maybe if he offers to defund Obamacare.

49 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:07am

Decades, not years

50 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:23am
51 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:26am

Obama Speaks, Atlas Shrugs, Boehner Cries.

52 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:30am

re: #46 Lidane

I would rather have these idiots go into brainlock over Syria than wasting more time on Obamacare repeals.

A truly sad state of affairs isn’t it? Like watching a really horrific train wreck in extremely slow motion.

53 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:42am

re: #42 Charles Johnson

Of course they will. How dare this President follow the rules. OMG this is awful.

54 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:56am

re: #51 Carlos Danger

Obama Speaks, Atlas Shrugs, Boehner Cries.

Biden laughs?

55 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:57am

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

You think they would if we had a GOP President?

If we had a GOP president right now, we would’ve nuked Damascus by now.

56 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 10:59:59am

re: #35 Eclectic Cyborg

Ok so wait, does this mean the U.S. IS going to attack Syria no matter what or does the POTUS have no authority to launch such a strike without congressional approval?

I think it’s a political decision to provide cover for not acting and backing off on the “red line” rhetoric. If lack of action results in Assad stepping up attacks or continuing to use chemical weapons Obama can always say he tried but congress shot him down.

57 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:00:05am

re: #51 Carlos Danger

Obama Speaks, Atlas Shrugs, Boehner Cries.

Worth 3 updings.

58 bmiller11757  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:00:08am

wow he’s gotten very gray.

59 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:00:23am

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

You think they would if we had a GOP President?

GOP president would be supporting Assad.

60 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:01:06am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I think it’s a political decision to provide cover for not acting and backing off on the “red line” rhetoric. If lack of action results in Assad stepping up attacks or continuing to use chemical weapons Obama can always say he tried but congress shot him down.

Yup. Maybe he knows how this game is played.

61 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:01:30am

re: #58 bmiller11757

wow he’s gotten very gray.

I can’t say as I blame him. I don’t think any President has had as stressful a Presidency as Obama…at least not in several generations that is.

62 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:01:51am

He said “after Labor day?”

63 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:02:02am

This was the best decision he could make.

64 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:02:30am

re: #61 Eclectic Cyborg

They go into the Presidency young and handsome and come out old and withered.

65 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:03:00am

re: #63 Randall Gross

This was the best decision he could make.

littlegreenfootballs.com

66 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:03:40am

re: #39 Eclectic Cyborg

Also, that puts House GOPers in a tough spot doesn’t it? Either they *GASP* support Obama OR decide to against him and not intervene in Syria.

And that is what I meant up above about getting messy. They will have at least four different groups to deal with amongst themselves. Tea Party, Libertarian, NeoCon, Traditional Conservative.

What is going to be interesting is the Dem side of this. They are positioning Hillary for ‘16, and she’s sold as a bit of a hawk, so she’d most likely be for a strike of some kind. Yet, the younger base is going to struggle with this because it strikes at their idealism. And the base liberals don’t seem to like it.

Well, if the president has anything going…he doesn’t have to worry about reelection. Only history.

67 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:03:48am
68 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:04:12am

O_o

69 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:04:17am

PUNT!

70 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:06:32am


re: #45 Charles Johnson

Total fucking jabbering moron. Talking to hear himself speak.

71 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:06:32am

re: #65 Decatur Deb

littlegreenfootballs.com

GOP is going to whine like hell about having to actually govern.

This is actually a nice step backwards in terms of executive power. I don’t know if the US should be the ‘world’s policeman’, but I really think that it’s better that the single person who is the president should not be able to make that call unilaterally except if there’s an imminent threat.

The current nihilism of the house shouldn’t mean we dismantle the way the government is supposed to work.

72 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:08:26am
73 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:08:44am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I think it’s a political decision to provide cover for not acting and backing off on the “red line” rhetoric. If lack of action results in Assad stepping up attacks or continuing to use chemical weapons Obama can always say he tried but congress shot him down.

Which puts a whole lotta stress on some recent Republican beliefs. Should this happen it will look bad to the world, but it is a good political move at home, and it will resonate into the future.

I was talking about Hillary just above. Think how that outcome positions her.

74 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:08:54am
75 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:09:36am

re: #71 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

GOP is going to whine like hell about having to actually govern.

This is actually a nice step backwards in terms of executive power. I don’t know if the US should be the ‘world’s policeman’, but I really think that it’s better that the single person who is the president should not be able to make that call unilaterally except if there’s an imminent threat.

The current nihilism of the house shouldn’t mean we dismantle the way the government is supposed to work.

It will be interesting to see if the House GOP actually has the gall to tie a vote in favor of intervention in Syria to defunding Obamacare.

Let the entire world see what a freak show we have to deal with in the US House.

76 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:10:30am

It’s like the punchline to a bad joke. “How do you get a Republican to vote against using military force?”

77 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:10:34am

re: #58 bmiller11757

wow he’s gotten very gray.

I was noticing that when he spoke at the MLK 50th the other day.

Anymore, who’d want this job? And that is part of our problem.

78 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:14:13am

re: #73 ObserverArt

Which puts a whole lotta stress on some recent Republican beliefs. Should this happen it will look bad to the world, but it is a good political move at home, and it will resonate into the future.

I was talking about Hillary just above. Think how that outcome positions her.

I suspect Republicans will be split. Votes will be based more on reelection prospects of positioning for future presidential runs. Same with Dems. This is no longer about international issues, concern over civilian deaths or regional stability. It’s a domestic political issue now.

79 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:14:14am
80 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:14:15am

re: #76 Charles Johnson

It’s like the punchline to a bad joke. “How do you get a Republican to vote against using military force?”

Simple: Declare that it can’t happen unless the costs are “off-set.”

81 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:14:37am

re: #77 ObserverArt

I was noticing that when he spoke at the MLK 50th the other day.

Anymore, who’d want this job? And that is part of our problem.

Every four years, there never seems to be a scarcity of those seeking it

82 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:14:46am

re: #76 Charles Johnson

It’s like the punchline to a bad joke. “How do you get a Republican to vote against using military force?”

Well, look at what just happened in the UK. There is no way in hell that this House is going to vote for military action against Assad. Which can also be seen as benefiting ISIS and AQ. The TPGOP already is infatuated with Putin. The only argument that can be made would be the Iran angle.

83 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:15:28am
84 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:16:39am

re: #56 Killgore Trout

I think it’s a political decision to provide cover for not acting and backing off on the “red line” rhetoric. If lack of action results in Assad stepping up attacks or continuing to use chemical weapons Obama can always say he tried but congress shot him down.

What would president Kilgore trout do in this case?

85 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:17:14am
86 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:17:23am

This is a set up — he fully expects the Tea Dudebros to pontificate in full frabjous lustre while people are actually paying attention.

87 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:17:40am

re: #75 EPR-radar

It will be interesting to see if the House GOP actually has the gall to tie a vote in favor of intervention in Syria to defunding Obamacare.

Let the entire world see what a freak show we have to deal with in the US House.

Dear God, please don’t give them any ideas.

88 sagehen  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:17:50am

re: #62 Gus

He said “after Labor day?”

which is the day after tomorrow, we can wait that long.

89 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:17:59am

re: #84 b_sharp

What would president Kilgore trout do in this case?

consult the tadpoles

90 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:18:13am

re: #84 b_sharp

What would president Kilgore trout do in this case?

Rely properly on his Secretary of Defense, Officer Pepperspray.

91 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:18:16am

re: #83 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Heh, that’s a possibility. This gives congress critters a chance to showboat. There will be much silliness.

92 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:18:53am

re: #85 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Oh goodie. I’m anxiously awaiting the quotes.

93 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:19:01am

re: #82 Gus

Well, look at what just happened in the UK. There is no way in hell that this House is going to vote for military action against Assad. Which can also be seen as benefiting ISIS and AQ. The TPGOP already is infatuated with Putin. The only argument that can be made would be the Iran angle.

We could see a GOP-Putin axis form in the US House and the UN security council to protect Assad.

That would severely damage the GOP brand, especially in the face of virtually certain further atrocities by Assad.

94 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:20:59am

re: #84 b_sharp

What would president Kilgore trout do in this case?

I’d pass the buck too. It’s probably a smart move. I don’t see much chance of stability in Syria no matter what happens. best not to but yourself in a position to be blamed for it.

95 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:21:17am

Americans for Prosperity are having a group-spew this weekend. Here’s a live stream.

defendingthedream.org

(Strong stomachs only.)

96 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:21:17am

re: #88 sagehen

which is the day after tomorrow, we can wait that long.

They reconvene on September 9.

97 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:21:43am

Not The Onion:

98 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:23:04am
99 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:23:44am

re: #97 Lidane

Not The Onion:

[Embedded content]

It’s like I said.

100 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:24:11am
101 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:24:20am
102 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:24:56am

re: #97 Lidane

Not The Onion:

The US should be working w/ the new Iranian govt and Assad to target al-Qaeda in Syria.

[Embedded content]

Of course! Why didn’t I think of that? We could send them some of that gas we confiscated from Saddam, if only we had found any.
/

103 Weet  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:24:57am

re: #4 Lidane

Obummer is lying! Putin says Assad is innocent and would never use chemical weapons against his own people!

/Drudge

/Approved by Assange

104 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:25:31am

re: #100 Lidane

Pesky Syrian reality intruding on war against Obama.

105 Robert O.  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:25:32am

I know that President Obama previously said the introduction of chemical weapons would change his “calculus”. But I am unconvinced. The equation in Syria has far too many variables. For example, how do we differentiate between the good guys and the bad guys? How do we deal with Al Qaeda and its various derivatives in the region? Will the President integrate US ground forces with Syrian rebels? There needs to be a limit on US involvement. The whole Middle East is heading down a slippery slope, and I am yet to see a turning point in the Arab Spring.

106 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:25:59am
107 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:26:06am

So where does this leave Syria? The French might act alone as they did in Mali but I think that’s unlikely. I suppose now the most likely candidate for action in Syria would be the Israelis if they get nervous enough about chemical weapons. This does give Assad a green light. He will almost certainly continue to push his luck.

108 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:26:26am

No way congress will make a decision in 3 weeks. Yeesh. We’re still negotiating immigration reform. They’re still trying to repeal the ACA. The Republicans doesn’t care what the president wants. The polling on a military strike is against any military action. More politics. Yawn.

109 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:27:09am

So did Inez fall of the face of the earth? I haven’t seen much from her lately.

110 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:28:08am

re: #108 Gus

No way congress will make a decision in 3 weeks. Yeesh. We’re still negotiating immigration reform. They’re still trying to repeal the ACA. The Republicans doesn’t care what the president wants. The polling on a military strike is against any military action. More politics. Yawn.

I think it will be close but Pelosi and Boehner seem to be on board. In the end I think he gets authorization.

111 EmmaAnne  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:28:09am

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

You think they would if we had a GOP President?

Instantly, and anyone with the slightest misgivings would be asked why they hate America and told they have RPDS*.

republican president derangement syndrome.

Why yes, I am still a little sensitive about opposing the Iraq invasion. :-)

112 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:28:24am

Not sure if serious:


Youtube Video

113 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:28:45am

re: #109 Eclectic Cyborg

She must be taking the day off
twitter.com

114 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:29:05am

re: #110 blueraven

I think it will be close but Pelosi and Boehner seem to be on board. In the end I think he gets authorization.

Boehner? They’re just dying to kick him out as House Speaker.

115 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:29:22am

re: #110 blueraven

I think it will be close but Pelosi and Boehner seem to be on board. In the end I think he gets authorization.

Congress couldn’t vote to have free banana splits in the cafeteria.

116 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:30:00am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

Congress couldn’t vote to have free banana splits in the cafeteria.

Pelosi can get it done.

117 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:30:22am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

Congress couldn’t vote to have free banana splits in the cafeteria.

TANSTAAFBSITC

118 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:30:28am

Actually seeing Republicans complaining about Obama not acting unilateral, weak.

That’s a new one.

119 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:30:47am

re: #113 jaunte

She must be taking the day off
twitter.com

She got a little vain with the changing of her twitter background.

120 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:31:12am

re: #118 Carlos Danger

Actually seeing Republicans complaining about Obama not acting unilateral, weak.

That’s a new one.

And if he’d been unilateral they’d be calling him a tyrant.

They want it both ways.

121 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:31:15am

Hang on.

122 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:31:51am

re: #117 wrenchwench

TANSTAAFBSITC

HAHAHAHA

123 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:32:00am

re: #116 blueraven

Pelosi can get it done.

Could, but doubt she has the passion for it.

124 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:32:17am
125 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:33:12am

9 days. Notice it says “to consider.”

126 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:33:18am
127 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:33:43am

Going to Congress for authorization = ignoring checks and balances:

128 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:34:21am

The Senate may come back earlier…so says Harry Reid per Dana Bash of CNN,
FWIW.

129 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:34:39am

re: #108 Gus

No way congress will make a decision in 3 weeks
I don’t think the President is in any hurry either
He doesn’t have the Brits on board,, the UN hasn’t made their findings public yet,,, the American public doesn’t have the appetite for it

130 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:35:29am

re: #127 Lidane

What kind of vile tyrannical trick is this “consultation” of which you speak?

131 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:36:59am

obama does right thing

132 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:37:22am
133 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:37:35am

re: #129 sattv4u2

No way congress will make a decision in 3 weeks
I don’t think the President is in any hurry either
He doesn’t have the Brits on board,, the UN hasn’t made their findings public yet,,, the American public doesn’t have the appetite for it

I’m considering a nap right about now.

134 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:37:55am

re: #127 Lidane

Going to Congress for authorization = ignoring checks and balances:

[Embedded content]

They are so fucking stupid.

135 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:39:05am

re: #133 Gus

I’m considering a nap right about now.

Set your alarm for May,,, June at the latest

should be over by then

136 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:39:43am

re: #127 Lidane

It’s like listening to a kid who doesn’t understand what they’re talking about.

137 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:39:51am

Welp. The “it’ll pass if it’s attached to a repeal Obamacare amendment” is already on Twitter.

138 Robert O.  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:40:21am

And BTW, I think it is a shrewd move by the President to throw this at Congress.
(a) Republican warhawks have goaded Obama into military action at every turn - Egypt, Libya, Syria.
(b) Republicans want a vote on “something”
(c) Obama boxed himself in with the “red line” comment
(d) There are really no good options in Syria
(e) The American people don’t want war because of (d) and the debacle in Iraq
(f) Obama can let the unpopular Congress take another hit while he concentrate his political capital somewhere else. e.g., the debt ceiling is looming.

139 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:42:05am

re: #137 Gus

Welp. The “it’ll pass if it’s attached to a repeal Obamacare amendment” is already on Twitter.

Then the President should ignore them as being not serious. Say, I tried but congress is useless in a crisis and proceed as planned.

140 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:42:21am

re: #130 jaunte

What kind of vile tyrannical trick is this “consultation” of which you speak?

The wingularity will have reached the GOP House if they start talking about impeaching Obama because he is seeking Congressional authorization.

141 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:42:49am

re: #76 Charles Johnson

It’s like the punchline to a bad joke. “How do you get a Republican to vote against using military force?”

Elect a black guy as President.

142 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:42:49am


Dudebro? Don’t know.

143 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:43:51am

re: #142 wrenchwench

I have never used recreational drugs in my entire life, but I want whatever this guy is on.

144 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:44:02am

re: #86 Randall Gross

This is a set up — he fully expects the Tea Dudebros to pontificate in full frabjous lustre while people are actually paying attention.

Exactly.

145 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:44:11am

1 hour ago, UN Chemical Weapons Team

Youtube Video

146 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:44:36am

re: #81 sattv4u2

Every four years, there never seems to be a scarcity of those seeking it

True. But I worry about quality candidates not really wanting a part. I know that is has always had its drawbacks just worried there may now be too many drawbacks for most.

By the way, I applaud anyone trying. Even the nutty.

I just hope the voting publican can judge nutty!

147 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:45:24am

re: #142 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]


Dudebro? Don’t know.

No, don’t think so.

148 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:45:45am

Bill Whittle just advised Ted Cruz to build a wall around Austin instead of at the Mexican border.

Now he’s talking about all the ways Romney won the election. Just not the actual votes, but he won on the issues.

149 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:45:49am

re: #142 wrenchwench

Congress doesn’t find the situation in Syria important enough to bother with volunteering to return to Washington to take up the question.
Waiting until the week of the 9th isn’t going to improve that.

150 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:47:00am

re: #149 jaunte

Congress doesn’t find the situation in Syria important enough to bother with volunteering to return to Washington to take up the question.
Waiting until the week of the 9th isn’t going to improve that.

Yeah. The decision not to return is as good as a vote for doing nothing.

151 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:48:08am

re: #148 wrenchwench

Bill Whittle just advised Ted Cruz to build a wall around Austin instead of at the Mexican border.

Better yet, let Austin stay part of the US while the rednecks around here secede.

152 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:49:12am

re: #148 wrenchwench

Bill Whittle just advised Ted Cruz to build a wall around Austin instead of at the Mexican border.

Now he’s talking about all the ways Romney won the election. Just not the actual votes, but he won on the issues.

Fox News Fantasy Hour?

153 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:49:34am

re: #149 jaunte

Congress doesn’t find the situation in Syria important enough to bother with volunteering to return to Washington to take up the question.
Waiting until the week of the 9th isn’t going to improve that.

The votes are there for authorization in the House (most Democrats + the sane Republican fringe) so like most House votes it is going to come down to whether or not Boehner enforces the GOP Hastert rule.

That will be a spectacle to behold —- GOP party line purity being put on the same level as deciding whether or not to respond to a chemical weapons atrocity.

154 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:50:04am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

I understand your Winning The Internets award is in the mail.

155 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:50:58am

re: #152 jaunte

Fox News Fantasy Hour?

AFP ‘Defending the American Dream Summit’.

156 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:51:22am

re: #135 sattv4u2

Set your alarm for May,,, June at the latest

should be over by then

I had posted this (below) half jokingly in the last thread. Your comment sort of fits what I was thinking. My use of “all” means politically both here and abroad and as a war tactic to your opposition.

I’m going with an Ali Rope-A-Dope. Get everyone all worked up and in a frenzy, then go some rounds where nothing is happening and all opposition is lulled. Then wham, here comes that hidden right uppercut.

In the middle rounds you score as everyone else is forced to show their own style and what they are going to do or not. Watching. Lame duckin’.

157 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:51:35am
158 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:51:59am

re: #149 jaunte

re: #150 wrenchwench

Then why didn’t the President ask congress for a use of force authorization before they went on recess?

And if the President is waiting for the UN’s report on what happened wrt the chem attack, that’s not going to be co0ming for another week or so, right when congress is due back anyway

159 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:52:27am

re: #157 Gus

Then, on the way to the floor, he saw that his shoelaces had been tied together.

160 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:53:07am

re: #153 EPR-radar

NRA needs to weigh in on this first. //

161 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:53:32am

If Cameron had not lost the vote in UK, I doubt Obama would be going to Congress.
But without the UK or UN support, I think he is backed into a corner here.

In the end, it is probably the right thing to do. The expansion of executive power needs to be reined in.

162 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:53:56am

But wait!

163 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:54:10am

re: #158 sattv4u2

Then why didn’t the President ask congress for a use of force authorization before they went on recess?

And if the President is waiting for the UN’s report on what happened wrt the chem attack, that’s not going to be co0ming for another week or so, right when congress is due back anyway

I guess he wasn’t ready. Do you think they should wait for the UN report before commencing the discussion?

164 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:54:42am

re: #158 sattv4u2

I think experience has shown that congress will oppose anything the president says he wants.

165 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:55:20am
166 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:55:46am

re: #160 Bulworth

NRA needs to weigh in on this first. //

The entertainment possibilities really are endless. Perhaps Arpaio should mobilize some of the 101st Chairborne as volunteers.

The Wingnut Foreign Legion, fighting right alongside the French Foreign Legion.

167 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:56:20am

re: #163 wrenchwench

I guess he wasn’t ready. Do you think they should wait for the UN report before commencing the discussion?

“wasn’t ready”?
Whats changed since? The report still isn’t in!

So again, why not ask prior to the recess? That would have started the discussion

168 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:56:23am
169 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:56:52am

re: #165 Gus

Is it the Occupy-Tea Party Circle of Derp alliance we’ve all been waiting for?

170 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:57:53am

re: #168 Gus

Obummer is dictator!! Obomo is Dithering!!

171 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:58:35am

re: #166 EPR-radar

The entertainment possibilities really are endless. Perhaps Arpaio should mobilize some of the 101st Chairborne as volunteers.

The Wingnut Foreign Legion, fighting right alongside the French Foreign Legion.

Where are the Evangelical Christian Soldiers Marching for The Lord???

This should be right up their alley. Could be a new crusade.

/a little

172 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:58:40am

re: #167 sattv4u2

“wasn’t ready”?
Whats changed since? The report still isn’t in!

So again, why not ask prior to the recess? That would have started the discussion

There is more information now than there was before the adjournment.

Answer the second question, please.

173 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:58:43am

re: #169 Bulworth

Flexible!

174 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:59:10am

Obama needs to go to Congress! Obama needs to just do it!!

175 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:59:40am
176 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 11:59:59am

re: #167 sattv4u2

“wasn’t ready”?
Whats changed since? The report still isn’t in!

So again, why not ask prior to the recess? That would have started the discussion

Because this chemical attack happened after they went on recess?

177 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:00:01pm

re: #172 wrenchwench

There is more information now than there was before the adjournment.

Answer the second question, please.

What “more information”
And I did answer it. Obama could have asked congress prior to the recess (which is prior to the UN report) which would have jump started the conversation

178 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:00:14pm

re: #176 blueraven

Because this chemical attack happened after they went on recess?

I don’t think so

179 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:00:21pm
180 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:00:26pm
181 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:00:40pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

I don’t think so

could be wrong, but I don’t believ it was

182 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:01:11pm
183 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:01:32pm
184 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:01:43pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Oh, they were serious about the derp circle alliance?

185 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:02:12pm

Peter King: “Making Us Vote Undermines Executive Authority!”

186 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:03:04pm

re: #170 Bulworth

Obummer is dictator!! Obomo is Dithering!!

It really is getting quite wingnutty!!!

187 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:03:13pm

re: #185 jaunte

Obama not coming to congress for vote is Dictatorship! Obummer making us vote is dictatorship!! And weakness-dithering!!!

188 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:04:14pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Occupy is largely defunct (unfortunately, IMO), and the Tea Party are corporate stooges.

Even if such an alliance were logically possible (i.e., two entities were available for the alliance), it is unthinkable.

GG apparently has absolutely no comprehension of US politics.

189 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:05:02pm

They wanted it yesterday!

Report: Very negative reaction from Free Syrian Army; they say President Obama delay will hurt them, call it backpedaling - @RichardEngel

190 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:05:03pm

re: #187 Bulworth

Obama not coming to congress for vote is Dictatorship! Obummer making us vote is dictatorship!! And weakness-dithering!!!

Further grounds for impeaching Obama.

191 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:06:02pm

re: #183 Gus

[Embedded content]

What? What? What?

192 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:06:45pm

re: #178 sattv4u2

I don’t think so

Congress was in recess basically at the beginning of August.

tricare.mil

The attack came much later

The preparations, as described by U.S. intelligence analysts, continued from Aug. 18 until just after midnight on Aug. 21, when the projectiles were loaded into rocket launchers behind the government’s defensive lines. Then, at 2:30 a.m., a half-dozen densely populated neighborhoods were jolted awake by a series of explosions, followed by an oozing blanket of suffocating gas..

washingtonpost.com

193 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:07:13pm

re: #179 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Because King loves dictatorships…

194 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:08:04pm

re: #192 blueraven

Congress was in recess basically at the beginning of August.

tricare.mil

washingtonpost.com

I’m referring to the sarin attack(s) back in April

washingtonexaminer.com

195 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:08:07pm

re: #177 sattv4u2

What “more information”
And I did answer it. Obama could have asked congress prior to the recess (which is prior to the UN report) which would have jump started the conversation

All that stuff Kerry reported on. Congress adjourned August 2nd. Well before the attack.

The question is, ‘Do you think they should wait for the UN report before starting the conversation?’

196 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:08:30pm
197 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:08:39pm

re: #195 wrenchwench

All that stuff Kerry reported on. Congress adjourned August 2nd. Well before the attack.

The question is, ‘Do you think they should wait for the UN report before starting the conversation?’

The ORIGINAL chem attack was in APRIL

198 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:08:40pm

Johnny Manziel coming on the field, people. Let’s try to focus on the serious stuff, OK?

199 blueraven  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:08:58pm

re: #194 sattv4u2

I’m referring to the sarin attack(s) back in April

washingtonexaminer.com

bullshit

200 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:09:22pm

re: #195 wrenchwench

All that stuff Kerry reported on. Congress adjourned August 2nd. Well before the attack.

The question is, ‘Do you think they should wait for the UN report before starting the conversation?’


And again,, asked and answered

I think the presidnt should have started/ requested that converstaion MONTHS ago

201 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:10:39pm

re: #200 sattv4u2

And again,, asked and answered

I think the presidnt should have started/ requested that converstaion MONTHS ago

Apparently, the evidence was not as conclusive for the April incident as it was for the August incident.

Seems plausible to me.

202 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:11:01pm

re: #194 sattv4u2

I’m referring to the sarin attack(s) back in April

washingtonexaminer.com

You’re the only one talking about that, I think.

203 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:11:09pm

OMG no.

Isn’t that just a precious stache and goatee?

These people are not right in the head.

204 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:11:51pm

re: #202 wrenchwench

You’re the only one talking about that, I think.

Not really

Thats when the President drew the ‘line in the sand”

205 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:11:53pm

re: #200 sattv4u2

And again,, asked and answered

I think the presidnt should have started/ requested that converstaion MONTHS ago

Before the attack that killed over 1400 people? Why didn’t you say so in April, then?

206 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:12:33pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

Not really

Thats when the President drew the ‘line in the sand”

With respect to future activities by the Assad regime (i.e., the August event).

207 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:12:39pm

re: #205 wrenchwench

Before the attack that killed over 1400 people? Why didn’t you say so in April, then?

{sigh}

yup,, because it’s MY job to tell the President to talk to congress!!

208 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:12:43pm
209 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:13:02pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

Not really

Thats when the President drew the ‘line in the sand”

Then he did start the conversation back then.

210 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:13:03pm

“Our democracy is stronger when the President and the people’s representatives stand together.”

211 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:13:49pm

re: #209 wrenchwench

Then he did start the conversation back then.

And congress didn’t give him approval?

212 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:15:17pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

What the fuck is up with his facial hair?

213 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:16:01pm

Again

Both the President AND congress are in shitty positions

our closest ally wants no part of this
the UN is dragging their feet
our biggest nemesis will veto any action ijn the security council
the American public (by and large) has no apetite for this

214 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:16:10pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

There’s an alien life form attached to his neck.

215 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:16:36pm

re: #205 wrenchwench

Before the attack that killed over 1400 people? Why didn’t you say so in April, then?

The redliners. You keep hearing it from the usuals.

216 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:17:18pm

re: #207 sattv4u2

{sigh}

yup,, because it’s MY job to tell the President to talk to congress!!

You just look silly saying now that he should have done something back then, when you weren’t even concerned about it then.

Here’s your one comment on Syria from March and/or April:

littlegreenfootballs.com

217 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:17:36pm

re: #211 sattv4u2

And congress didn’t give him approval?

He didn’t ask for it then.

218 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:17:56pm

It just occurred to me that the upcoming Congressional vote on Syria is likely to be the first significant act of Congress since the midterm election of 2010.

I’ve grown accustomed to Congress being good for nothing except GOP posturing and creating self-inflicted wounds.

219 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:17:59pm

The folks in Syria that want this military strike are shaking their heads mind you. Different perspective from that part of that world.

220 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:18:00pm

OH, hell.

Suspected Boko Haram attacks kill 38 in Nigeria: officials

news.yahoo.com

Boko Haram is an Islamic Jihadist militant terrorist group.

221 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:19:54pm

re: #219 Gus

They may be over optimistic about our ability to distinguish among Syrian factions.

222 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:20:12pm

re: #219 Gus

The folks in Syria that want this military strike are shaking their heads mind you. Different perspective from that part of that world.

As expected. Who wouldn’t want the US to strike at their enemies for committing atrocities against their own.

223 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:21:56pm

Obama goes in unilaterally: “ZOMG TYRANT! FASCIST THUG! DICTATOR!”

Obama goes to Congress for authorization: “ZOMG WIMP! WEAK PREZNIT! LAUGHINGSTOCK OF THE WORLD! ABDICATING HIZ AUTHORITAH!”

Does that about sum things up?

224 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:22:41pm

re: #217 wrenchwench

He didn’t ask for it then.

And he most likely won’t ask until the UN report, which won’t be coming for days ,,,, just around the same time congress comes back

225 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:23:15pm

re: #223 Lidane

Obama goes in unilaterally: “ZOMG TYRANT! FASCIST THUG! DICTATOR!”

Obama goes to Congress for authorization: “ZOMG WIMP! WEAK PREZNIT! LAUGHINGSTOCK OF THE WORLD! ABDICATING HIZ AUTHORITAH!”

Does that about sum things up?

Add: GOLF!

226 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:23:43pm

re: #225 Stanley Sea

Add: GOLF!

ooo,.,,, thanks

reminds me

I have to book a tee time for Monday

227 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:24:06pm

re: #212 Stanley Sea

What the fuck is up with his facial hair?

Steampunk cosplay.

228 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:24:24pm

re: #218 EPR-radar

It just occurred to me that the upcoming Congressional vote on Syria is likely to be the first significant act of Congress since the midterm election of 2010.

I’ve grown accustomed to Congress being good for nothing except GOP posturing and creating self-inflicted wounds.

Now, lets not get our hopes up!

229 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:24:31pm
230 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:25:34pm

re: #220 Justanotherhuman

OH, hell.

Suspected Boko Haram attacks kill 38 in Nigeria: officials

news.yahoo.com

Boko Haram is a whiter shade of Islamic Jihadist militant terrorist group.

231 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:25:46pm

re: #212 Stanley Sea

What the fuck is up with his facial hair?

Real life V For Vendetta cosplay.

232 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:27:19pm
233 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:27:22pm

Syrian civil war

White House believes Congress will vote in favor of US military strike in Syria, senior administration officials say - @Reuters

2 mins ago by editor

That’s confidence.

234 ericblair  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:27:23pm

re: #223 Lidane

Does that about sum things up?

You forgot:

Obama refuses to intervene: OBAMA LOST SYRIA CREDIBILITY IMPEACH

I don’t know what to do about this, but I trust Obama to make the best call with the available information, because so far he’s earned it.

235 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:28:44pm

I know there are those that say the president by law needs to run this by congress for approval.

And there are those that say he has the right to attack given to him by the constitution.

What are the political ramifications if he runs it by congress, doesn’t like what they vote and goes ahead and sneaks in an attack shortly after they turn him down.

Are political and law bases then covered?

236 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:28:52pm
237 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:30:39pm
238 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:30:56pm

Obama to seek Congress vote on Syria military action

bbc.co.uk

“The House of Representatives will debate possible actions against Syria in the week after 9 September, Speaker John Boehner said.

“Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell welcomed the announcement, saying president’s role as commander-in-chief was “always strengthened when he enjoys the expressed support of the Congress”.

239 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:32:13pm

re: #235 ObserverArt

What are the political ramifications if he runs it by congress, doesn’t like what they vote and goes ahead and sneaks in an attack shortly after they turn him down.

Are political and law bases then covered?

That depends on how much fail the GOP aims for during all this.

If they try to tie going into Syria to defunding Obamacare, POTUS can blast them as unserious, say he tried, and go in anyway. If they make a legitimate case and still turn him down, I have no idea.

240 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:33:20pm

re: #232 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Did the Prez actually go golfing? Bless his snarky little soul.

241 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:35:04pm

re: #240 Decatur Deb

Did the Prez actually go golfing? Bless his snarky little soul.

He’s forcing Congress to do their jobs AND he’s playing golf?

SEE?! TYRANT! DICTATOR! USURPER! TEH KENYAN IS EVIL!

/////

242 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:37:43pm
243 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:38:28pm

re: #240 Decatur Deb

Did the Prez actually go golfing? Bless his snarky little soul.

Yep. Trolled ‘em. Again.

244 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:38:36pm

re: #237 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Are they out of their minds?

Congress approved funding for Bush’s misadventures, including Dems, and they think a “left/libertarian alliance” is going to stop the middle/centrists of both sides? They constitute a majority of Congress, if IIRC.

245 Political Atheist  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:39:10pm

The international reaction should we choose not to strike will be very telling. Far more than the domestic reaction IMO.

246 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:39:19pm

I think this was the right move for Obama to make. You can’t take the politics out of this equation, and politically he’s going to be in a much stronger position by going to Congress for authorization. It’s also consistent with his criticism of the Bush administration for NOT doing that.

Like any political decision it’s risky, and I’m sure the Syrian opposition doesn’t like it. But it’s what a president should do.

247 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:40:47pm

re: #246 Charles Johnson

I think this was the right move for Obama to make. You can’t take the politics out of this equation, and politically he’s going to be in a much stronger position by going to Congress for authorization. It’s also consistent with his criticism of the Bush administration for NOT doing that.

Like any political decision it’s risky, and I’m sure the Syrian opposition doesn’t like it. But it’s what a president should do.

Risky in the sense that it increases our chances of doing the wrong thing instead of the other wrong thing.

248 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:41:51pm

“I believe that the people’s representatives must be invested in what America does abroad”

249 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:41:56pm

We really need to have Congress to be in session more of the year.

250 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:42:14pm

Earlier.

251 steve_davis  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:44:32pm

re: #58 bmiller11757

wow he’s gotten very gray.

The Ring of Power will do that to you.

252 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:45:37pm

re: #251 steve_davis

The Ring of Power will do that to you.

Room is laughing.

253 psddluva4evah  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:45:38pm

I’m sure someone already mentioned it but approximately 2 hours ago Coryn said this: Sen. John Cornyn To Obama: Call Congress For A Vote On Syria

bet he’s eatin crow now

254 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:46:18pm
255 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:46:32pm

re: #253 psddluva4evah

Finest prime Texas crow.

256 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:47:03pm

re: #254 Gus

[Embedded content]

See Sister Sarah.

257 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:49:46pm
258 AlexRogan  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:51:11pm

re: #230 Decatur Deb

Nice Procol Harum reference there.

259 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:52:06pm

These people, I swear.

260 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:55:02pm

re: #259 Charles Johnson

261 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:56:10pm

re: #259 Charles Johnson

21 hours ago on Matthew Boyle’s timeline:

262 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:57:30pm

I’m not exactly thrilled over what’s happening in Syria and having to throw something on a recalcitrant Syrian govt killing its own people in the most horrific ways, or the sectarianism we’re seeing in the ME which is fueling even more disorder, but I still believe in our own representative form of govt, which incidentally, I see Pres Obama using in the correct manner.

We don’t have mob rule in this country, and we don’t have a dictatorship, either.

If the left/libertarian factions don’t like what’s happening, they will just have to use the electoral process over time. I don’t think the majority of people will will buy their entire party planks, though, even if they were to ever work out the differences they have in other areas, it will take more time than they have.

The one-shot “anti-war” sentiment overlooks a lot of other differences.

263 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:58:30pm

Free Republic senses a trap…

264 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:59:48pm
265 BongCrodny  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 12:59:59pm

re: #261 jaunte

21 hours ago on Matthew Boyle’s timeline:

You Bush bashers just remember,Obama owns Syria lock,stock and barrel.— Charlie Daniels

Haven’t you got a fiddle to rub?

266 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:01:03pm

re: #265 BongCrodny

Today he’s tweeting about football and tv shows.

267 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:01:55pm

Those cedar planks aren’t going to soak themselves—BBL.

268 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:05:23pm
269 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:07:34pm


Yes, we should brought flowers to the Germans.

270 ObserverArt  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:07:36pm

Come on everybody…let’s do the twist!

Yep, looks like there is a whole lot of twisting going on. That evil Obama.

271 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:08:10pm

re: #263 Decatur Deb

Free Republic senses a trap…

Pres Obama plays chess while everyone else plays checkers.

It was a decent ploy to get Congress to get to work on something, to use the system as it is supposed to be used. No one can accuse him of being dictatorial, and if Congress doesn’t approve, he’ll still win because Constitutionally, Congress declares war. If they approve, they’re the warmongers—he doesn’t have to assume the mantle of “warmonger” alone.

Pres Obama wins, whatever the outcome.

272 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:09:53pm

re: #269 Gus

Pathetic. Note how Sirota just assumes the US is going to commit crimes against humanity. What an asshole.

273 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:11:42pm
274 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:12:20pm

re: #269 Gus

If we’d just given them Poland everything would have been OK. //

275 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:12:37pm

@AlArabiya_Eng tweeted:

#BreakingNews Opposition media: 50 defect from Syrian security forces in Deir al-Zour

20 mins ago from twitter.com by partner

276 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:13:30pm

re: #261 jaunte

united we stand.//

277 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:14:05pm

House Democratic Leader Pelosi: ‘President Obama is right that the debate and authorization by Congress for action will make our country and the response in Syria stronger’ - via @NBCNews

26 mins ago

278 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:15:23pm

re: #274 Bulworth

If we’d just given them Poland everything would have been OK. //

And the Slovakia,, and Austria,, and Yugoslavia,, and France ,, and ,,,,,

279 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:15:55pm

re: #278 sattv4u2

And the Slovakia,, and Austria,, and Yugoslavia,, and France ,, and ,,,,,

All of North Africa.

280 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:16:13pm

re: #240 Decatur Deb

Hasn’t Congress been on vacation for like a month?

281 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:16:15pm

re: #261 jaunte

21 hours ago on Matthew Boyle’s timeline:

[Embedded Charlie Daniel content]

Too funny.

It’s been interesting watching his political metamorphosis from “Uneasy Rider.”

Charlie Daniels was a registered Democrat, performed at fundraisers and voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976.

282 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:17:21pm

Question:
Lets say the UN sec. Council decides to act. Would the president still be bound by Congress to not act?

283 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:17:45pm

re: #261 jaunte

Is Charlie Daniels relevant enough to have one of those blue verified things on his twitters?

284 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:18:27pm

re: #281 BeenHereAwhile

Too funny.

It’s been interesting watching his political metamorphosis from “Uneasy Rider.”

Charlie Daniels was a registered Democrat, performed at fundraisers and voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976.

Then he got fundie’d.

285 jaunte  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:20:01pm

re: #283 Bulworth

If anyone set up a parody Charlie Daniels twitter account I don’t think people would notice the difference.

286 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:20:10pm

re: #282 OhNoZombies!

Lets say the UN sec. Council decides to act

highly unlikely, with Russia holding a veto (and if not them, china)

Would the president still be bound by Congress to notact

Theorectically, yes. IF the UN wanted to act, an individual member is NOT required too

Case in point,, Iraq. The UN authorized force against Saddam. China, russia et al did NOt participate

287 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:20:23pm
288 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:21:56pm

Sens. McCain, Graham statement on Syria: ‘We believe President Obama is correct that the Assad regime’s use of chemical weapons requires a military response by the United States and our friends and allies’ - via @NBCNews

36 mins ago by editor

289 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:22:22pm

re: #281 BeenHereAwhile

Carter was considered a conservative Democrat, he was from the South, and an evangelical when evangelicals had not yet converted in mass to the GOP. So not surprising he supported Carter.

290 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:25:25pm

re: #286 sattv4u2

Lets say the UN sec. Council decides to act

highly unlikely, with Russia holding a veto (and if not them, china)

Would the president still be bound by Congress to notact

Theorectically, yes. IF the UN wanted to act, an individual member is NOT required too

Case in point,, Iraq. The UN authorized force against Saddam. China, russia et al did NOt participate

What I mean is, if Congress votes no to action against Syria, but the UN decides to go in, would Obama still be bound by that NO vote, or could he proceed with the UN?

291 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:26:11pm

re: #290 OhNoZombies!

292 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:27:21pm

re: #265 BongCrodny

21 hours ago on Matthew Boyle’s timeline:

“You Bush bashers just remember,Obama owns Syria lock,stock and barrel.”
— Charlie Daniels

Haven’t you got a fiddle to rub?

Charlie Daniels played bass on Bob Dylan’s “Nashville Skyline.”

293 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:28:16pm
294 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:28:26pm

re: #273 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

See his right hand? He means business.

295 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:29:01pm

Autocorrect fail of the day:

296 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:30:17pm

re: #290 OhNoZombies!

What I mean is, if Congress votes no to action against Syria, but the UN decides to go in, would Obama still be bound by that NO vote, or could he proceed with the UN?

iirc,,, If (when) he goes to congress and congress says ‘no” he would then have to have compelling proof that the US was under immanent threat of direct attack, no matter what the UN states

Lets say it this way. The Brits have already voted NO. If the UN gives the okay can Cameron mobilze brit troops? (and yes,, i know their laws differ somewhat from our constitution,, but the Brits have already said NO)

297 Bulworth  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:30:24pm

re: #288 Justanotherhuman

is Senator McCainGraham one Senator yet?

298 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:30:43pm

re: #295 Charles Johnson

Autocorrect fail of the day:

[Embedded content]

I like it better that way than I would have the way he meant to do it.

299 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:33:39pm

This guy is tweeting his wedding today.


That’s a very patient woman standing there.

300 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:33:56pm

bbiab

have to set up the nightime games

301 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:36:04pm

re: #290 OhNoZombies!

What I mean is, if Congress votes no to action against Syria, but the UN decides to go in, would Obama still be bound by that NO vote, or could he proceed with the UN?

The UN can’t repeal a Congressional vote.

302 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:36:10pm
303 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:37:14pm

Stupid, irrational, ass-brained Congress…
I know the vote would be NO on domestic stuff.
Not a clue on how the majority would vote on foreign policy stuff.

304 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:39:18pm

re: #301 aagcobb

The UN can’t repeal a Congressional vote.

I know, I was asking about the President’s options…

305 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:40:07pm
306 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:43:50pm

Yesterday:


Today:

307 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:44:30pm

Starting to look like Congress might actually return from vacation after all.

308 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:44:31pm

re: #289 Bulworth

Carter was considered a conservative Democrat, he was from the South, and an evangelical when evangelicals had not yet converted in mass to the GOP. So not surprising he supported Carter.

With regard to Georgia & national Politics of the time, Jimmy Carter was considered to be a very progressive Democrat.

That’s what attracted voters who had had enough of Nixon - Ford presidency.

Carter’s campaign was financed for the most part by rock & roll concerts until matching funds became available per campaign election law of the time.

309 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:44:44pm

re: #305 Gus

[Embedded content]

The look on Bidens face

“I’m close ,,, oh so close,,,”
//

310 kirkspencer  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:46:41pm

re: #290 OhNoZombies!

What I mean is, if Congress votes no to action against Syria, but the UN decides to go in, would Obama still be bound by that NO vote, or could he proceed with the UN?

The answer is “it depends”. It depends, for example, on exactly what the resolution says. It depends on which precedences Obama chooses to use. It depends on what Syria does.

Remember we’re already providing limited support. Unless Congress not only says no but orders him to pull them out, he’s got that nose in the tent. That, various ‘emergency military action’ options that have been used, abused, and approved by both court and congress in the past, mean he can still do limited actions (with various definitions for limited. Consider Panama and Grenada.)

311 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:46:54pm

re: #306 Gus

That’s a fast acting wingnut. For life in the slow lane, I am amused by RedState, which still has nothing up on this news.

Erick son of Erick must not have received the authorized talking points yet.

312 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:47:41pm

Pat Metheny (or his people) posted a whole bunch of cool new videos to his YouTube account.

313 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:50:19pm


It’s baby lizard season. I see them everywhere.

314 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:50:55pm

Not much action on that hashtag, tho.

315 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:52:15pm

re: #310 kirkspencer

Ok…Thanks!

316 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:53:07pm

By the way, the Washington Post changed the title from:

Sex between students and teachers should not be a crime

to:

The unintended consequences of laws addressing sex between teachers and students

It’s a sign of how corrupt and strange our media culture has gotten that this freakishly sick article was published at all.

317 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:54:19pm

Good move to dump it in Congress’ lap. Hopefully then, whatever is decided, they can catch the grief they deserve rather than the President who doesn’t deserve it.

318 Gus  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:54:57pm
319 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:57:45pm

re: #305 Gus

Biden and Hagel TAG TEAM GO

320 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 1:58:40pm

re: #316 Charles Johnson

What I saw in that article was conflating the age of consent (a somewhat arbitrary number) with the propriety of teacher-student relations in pre-college education.

FWIW, I’d be much happier with a categorical ban on such teacher-student relationships than with changing the age of consent to try to get to the same result.

321 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:00:39pm

I think the Prez. was also trying to appeal to the UN’s conscious, in a subtle way.
Since I don’t think Congress is going to disallow limited action, cause they are very short-sighted, have a feeling he’s sticking his foot in the door.

322 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:02:24pm
323 Carlos Danger  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:02:58pm

re: #311 EPR-radar

That’s a fast acting wingnut. For life in the slow lane, I am amused by RedState, which still has nothing up on this news.

Erick son of Erick must not have received the authorized talking points yet.

I AM NOT PROGRAMMED TO RESPOND IN THAT AREA

ALL UNITS RELATE ALL UNITS LIMBAUGH CO-ORDINATE

324 urbanmeemaw  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:06:56pm

re: #269 Gus

Could someone please find David a real job that provides value add? Like collecting garbage (IMO the most important job there is - where would we be without trash collectors)? Please? He’s such a petulant creature.

325 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:07:25pm
326 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:07:37pm

re: #324 urbanmeemaw

where would we be without trash collectors)

on the move ,,,, often!!

327 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:11:33pm

re: #308 BeenHereAwhile

Yep the Allman Brothers fundraised for Carter.

328 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:15:55pm

China: Wife ‘Boils Husband In Pressure Cooker’

news.sky.com

The man was allegedly drugged and tortured by his wife for three days in June, according to a report on government-backed news portal Anhui News.

WORSE
HONEYMOON
EVAH

329 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:16:19pm

re: #320 EPR-radar

What I saw in that article was conflating the age of consent (a somewhat arbitrary number) with the propriety of teacher-student relations in pre-college education.

FWIW, I’d be much happier with a categorical ban on such teacher-student relationships than with changing the age of consent to try to get to the same result.

Teachers in Kentucky are banned from sexual relations with students, even the 18 year olds.

330 OhNoZombies!  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:17:24pm

re: #325 Stanley Sea

Clearly more evidence that we need more people with guns.
//

331 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:21:00pm

re: #227 Decatur Deb

Steampunk cosplay.

I totally want this hat. I would wear it everywhere. Too rich for my blood though.

332 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:24:09pm


333 Political Atheist  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:27:35pm

re: #325 Stanley Sea

Ouch! Stupid hurts.

334 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:28:53pm

re: #332 wrenchwench

Condescending AND stupid in the same series of tweets. That takes talent.

335 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:31:24pm

re: #273 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Love the Captain Morgan stance.

336 Stanley Sea  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:33:02pm

re: #335 goddamnedfrank

Love the Captain Morgan stance.

Ha!!!

337 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:33:03pm
338 BeenHereAwhile  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:33:10pm

re: #327 Amory Blaine

Yep the Allman Brothers fundraised for Carter.

Before matching funds kicked in, early on Carter campaign finances got real tight (usual major Democratic contributors were going Jimmy Who?).

Then Phil Walden figured out that each concert ticket could be considered a single contribution, thus getting around campaign contribution law restrictions.

Phil got the rock & roll, & some of the R&B industry on board and enough money rolled in to keep the campaign wagon rolling.

339 Lidane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:40:37pm
340 kirkspencer  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:40:42pm

re: #331 Amory Blaine

I totally want this hat. I would wear it everywhere. Too rich for my blood though.

So make it.

It’s not blocked. It’s neither silk nor felt, just leather. Looks like except for the shaping of the brim it’s pretty much simple sewing with a heavy needle machine.

‘course, if I were going to make it (and I won’t) I’d use very thin brass instead of or over those light leather sections. I’d still use the corset stitching, but given how stiff the crown would be I see no problem with a good epoxy glue.

341 Political Atheist  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:43:15pm

re: #337 Lidane
Agreed.

Assad and his generals are trapped by Obamas move. It’s a little like the felon who sees a guard watching. Will he refrain from further action or challenge the guard and go for it.

You can’t make the worlds attention more apparent to the regime than this. If Assad uses those weapons again congress will approve via Facebook IM if they have to. If not he is being deterred. That’s the goal anyway right?

342 Amory Blaine  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:43:30pm

re: #340 kirkspencer

Could be a cool project. My mom is a wicked seamstress and would no doubt be helpful. I would put way better gear pieces on it too.

343 elizajane  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:43:53pm

re: #316 Charles Johnson

By the way, the Washington Post changed the title from:

Sex between students and teachers should not be a crime

to:

The unintended consequences of laws addressing sex between teachers and students

It’s a sign of how corrupt and strange our media culture has gotten that this freakishly sick article was published at all.

I corresponded with the author privately on this. I felt (although I did not say) that she did a rather poor job at addressing a real issue — the way our culture reacts to over-sexualizing young girls by over-penalizing certain types of relationship.

God knows I would have a fit if any of my three daughters had sex with a teacher. Nonetheless, I have known three women who had serious relationships with their high school teachers (one with her principal). Two of the women married the teachers. The one I kept in touch with, whose relationship began when she was 15, remained married for decades and had several children; she is now the chair of a large department at a major university. In the one case where the police got involved, the man ended up in jail, the young woman was traumatized by the trial, and the community blamed her.

I would say that each of these women, then girls, was in an exceptional circumstance, whether it was a traumatic home situation or just being a genius among mediocre peers. The ones who were seeking help or support probably sought it in the wrong place. But did criminalization help them? No. And none felt, in retrospect, that they had been in any way victimized.

I do not think that such relationships should just be legal! But I do think that the issue is a lot more grey than most people paint it when they have not been personally involved in or close to such a situation. Our society, and especially our legal system, is terrible at dealing with the grey.

344 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:47:00pm

re: #343 elizajane

Careful! Your talking about making sense and careful nuance out of a media exploitable situation…

345 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:55:59pm

Image: PCo8aWy.jpg

346 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 2:57:16pm

re: #343 elizajane

People get irrational on this subject even in cases where there is no age of consent issue.

For example, there was recently an article in the local paper (in the SF bay area) about a student-teacher relationship where the reporting was that no sex occurred until after 1) the student was of age and 2) the student had graduated from the relevant school.

The comments on this article were 90% severely against this relationship. Age of consent should cut both ways —- below the age of consent, its a crime, above the age of consent, busybodies should go away.

347 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:08:34pm

re: #39 Eclectic Cyborg

Also, that puts House GOPers in a tough spot doesn’t it? Either they *GASP* support Obama OR decide to stand against him and not intervene in Syria.

Fine, then they do not. Military action is a “go hard or go home” matter. If the president does not want to ‘go hard’, then Congress should vote for the US to stay home.

348 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:10:31pm

re: #343 elizajane

And none felt, in retrospect, that they had been in any way victimized.

Even in retrospect, that doesn’t mean they weren’t.

I don’t have any problem with age differences, but that’s only when both parties are 18 or older. And even then, I don’t think it should be a legal question, but institutions are not wrong to have a policy against teacher-student relationships. I knew several women in college who had relationships with teachers or administrators, including a marriage (in that case, I knew both the wife and the next student that administrator cheated on her with) and none of them were good situations. Well, one turned out OK, I think, even though at the beginning it was another cheating situation. But everyone was an adult, and none of it was my business.

349 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:11:33pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

Fine, then they do not. Military action is a “go hard or go home” matter. If the president does not want to ‘go hard’, then Congress should vote for the US to stay home.

What if the president does want to go hard, and Congress says no?

350 compound_Idaho  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:11:33pm

re: #342 Amory Blaine

I still wonder what kind of adult falls in love with a 14/15 year old. Something is not right there. They are not equals.

I personally know a female teacher that thought she was in love with a 14 year old boy. She ended up in jail for 2 yrs. I can guarantee you something was not right with her although it surprised the hell out of me when she confessed.

351 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:14:19pm

re: #349 wrenchwench

What if the president does want to go hard, and Congress says no?

Then they can stand on their record, which he is free to remind the public of at election time. But I see no evidence of that situation here.

352 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:20:29pm

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

Then they can stand on their record, which he is free to remind the public of at election time. But I see no evidence of that situation here.

You think they’ll give him the go-ahead? Or that they’ll ‘rightly’ say no? If they say no, should he go anyway?

353 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:28:56pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

Fine, then they do not. Military action is a “go hard or go home” matter. If the president does not want to ‘go hard’, then Congress should vote for the US to stay home.

One of the advantages of this move by Omaba is that it is so open-ended. Congress can pass anything it pleases, up to and including a declaration of total war against the Assad regime as being “enemies of humanity”.

As Decatur Deb noted, lets see who is really ready to rock and roll over this.

354 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:32:49pm

re: #352 wrenchwench

You think they’ll give him the go-ahead? Or that they’ll ‘rightly’ say no? If they say no, should he go anyway?

If Congress votes “No”, then Obama is going to have to accept that. The United States is not directly threatened, thus the president does not in my opinion have the right to act if Congress denies him authorization.

355 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:37:28pm

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

If Congress votes “No”, then Obama is going to have to accept that. The United States is not directly threatened, thus the president does not in my opinion have the right to act if Congress denies him authorization.

I agree with this assessment. Obama indicated in his speech that he believes he has the authority to proceed without congressional authorization, but that is not at all the same thing as proceeding in the face of an explicit “no”.

356 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:37:51pm

re: #354 Dark_Falcon

If Congress votes “No”, then Obama is going to have to accept that. The United States is not directly threatened, thus the president does not in my opinion have the right to act if Congress denies him authorization.

I’ve seen some reputable pundits who disagree, including this one posted above at #79:

357 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:41:27pm

re: #355 EPR-radar

I agree with this assessment. Obama indicated in his speech that he believes he has the authority to proceed without congressional authorization, but that is not at all the same thing as proceeding in the face of an explicit “no”.

Just so. For Obama to simply order the missiles launched would be defensible from a Constitutional standpoint, but to ask Congress, be told ‘No’ and then attack anyways would be a lawless act. And it would also play right into right-wing rhetoric. Barack Obama is too smart to let himself become what his opponents claim he is.

358 compound_Idaho  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:44:15pm

re: #356 wrenchwench

We can come up with different scenarios, but it seems pretty clear in this case that this is the way it is supposed to work.

359 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:47:14pm

re: #358 compound_Idaho

We can come up with different scenarios, but it seems pretty clear in this case that this is the way it is supposed to work.

And if Congress says ‘yes’, would you support a strike a war against Syria?

360 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:49:48pm

One thing I think we can all agree on: Congressional authorization on the use of force against the Assad Regime ought not to be subject to either the Hastert Rule in the House, nor filibuster in the Senate. Congress will shame itself beyond measure should either such device prevent a house of Congress from taking a vote.

361 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:53:50pm

re: #360 Dark_Falcon

One thing I think we can all agree on: Congressional authorization on the use of force against the Assad Regime ought not to be subject to either the Hastert Rule in the House, nor filibuster in the Senate. Congress will shame itself beyond measure should either such device prevent a house of Congress from taking a vote.

I would add that tying an authorization to use force against Syria to domestic political issues (e.g., defunding Obamacare) would also be beyond the pale. That includes budget offset games for costs that would be incurred.

362 compound_Idaho  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 3:55:37pm

re: #359 wrenchwench

I don’t think so. I’ve had enough

363 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 4:00:58pm

re: #361 EPR-radar

I would add that tying an authorization to use force against Syria to domestic political issues (e.g., defunding Obamacare) would also be beyond the pale. That includes budget offset games for costs that would be incurred.

‘Yes’ to the first, a qualified ‘No’ to the second. While Congress should not play games with military matters, the House and Senate would be within their rights to demand that the president commit to offsetting the money he is asking them to authorize spending, that demand being able to be made in whole or in part.

364 EPR-radar  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 4:06:52pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

‘Yes’ to the first, a qualified ‘No’ to the second. While Congress should not play games with military matters, the House and Senate would be within their rights to demand that the president commit to offsetting the money he is asking them to authorize spending, that demand being able to be made in whole or in part.

IMO, if such an offset were mandated by Congress to come out of domestic spending, it would amount to game playing with military matters.

More generally, doing offsets when unusual events need to be funded is a budget gimmick that is way past its sell-by date.

365 kirkspencer  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 4:24:07pm

re: #360 Dark_Falcon

One thing I think we can all agree on: Congressional authorization on the use of force against the Assad Regime ought not to be subject to either the Hastert Rule in the House, nor filibuster in the Senate. Congress will shame itself beyond measure should either such device prevent a house of Congress from taking a vote.

caveat: assuming it’s “clean”. Amendments on curation, on whether there should be an exit strategy, on limits of force, these are fine. But if the house forces a 41st ‘remove ACA’ statement, it’s dead.

366 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 4:27:33pm

re: #362 compound_Idaho

I don’t think so. I’ve had enough

I kinda hear that coming from certain Syrians.

367 kirkspencer  Sat, Aug 31, 2013 4:28:03pm

re: #363 Dark_Falcon

‘Yes’ to the first, a qualified ‘No’ to the second. While Congress should not play games with military matters, the House and Senate would be within their rights to demand that the president commit to offsetting the money he is asking them to authorize spending, that demand being able to be made in whole or in part.

No, it would not be within Congress’s right to make such a demand within it.

it’s not an authorization to spend money. It’s an authorization - no, it’s a DECLARATION of war. Congress can impose limits such as determination of completion and objective but essentially Congress declares and executive executes. “you must go to war, but you must do it by taking money from other things” is the worst of unfunded mandates.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
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