Text of Obama’s Draft Legislation On Syria

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Declared goals and specific limits are what past policy has been missing. Well, here it is.

Whereas, on August 21, 2013, the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack in the suburbs of Damascus, Syria, killing more than 1,000 innocent Syrians;

Whereas these flagrant actions were in violation of international norms and the laws of war;

Whereas the United States and 188 other countries comprising 98 percent of the world’s population are parties to the Chemical Weapons Convention, which prohibits the development, production, acquisition, stockpiling or use of chemical weapons;

Whereas, in the Syria Accountability and Lebanese Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2003, Congress found that Syria’s acquisition of weapons of mass destruction threatens the security of the Middle East and the national security interests of the United States;

Whereas the United Nations Security Council, in Resolution 1540 (2004), affirmed that the proliferation of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons constitutes a threat to international peace and security;

Whereas, the objective of the United States’ use of military force in connection with this authorization should be to deter, disrupt, prevent, and degrade the potential for, future uses of chemical weapons or other weapons of mass destruction;

Whereas, the conflict in Syria will only be resolved through a negotiated political settlement, and Congress calls on all parties to the conflict in Syria to participate urgently and constructively in the Geneva process; and

Whereas, unified action by the legislative and executive branches will send a clear signal of American resolve.

SEC. ___ AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES

(a) Authorization. — The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in connection with the use of chemical weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in the conflict in Syria in order to —

(1) prevent or deter the use or proliferation (including the transfer to terrorist groups or other state or non-state actors), within, to or from Syria, of any weapons of mass destruction, including chemical or biological weapons or components of or materials used in such weapons; or

(2) protect the United States and its allies and partners against the threat posed by such weapons.

(b) War Powers Resolution Requirements. —

(1) Specific Statutory Authorization. — Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.

(2) Applicability of other requirements. — Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.

More: Text of Obama’s Draft Legislation

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129 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:03:01am

I was going to post this, but instead I’m promoting your Page…

2 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:05:30am
3 Kragar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:05:41am

I await the GOP’s response. It will be amusing to see them come up with reasons to oppose it.

4 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:06:57am

This is pretty serious stuff. I don’t envy the task the administration ahs before it.

5 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:07:02am

re: #3 Kragar

I await the GOP’s response. It will be amusing to see them come up with reasons to oppose it.

Because Black President, that’s why.

And while I may be being sarcastic, I honestly would not be surprised to see some derper, somewhere, say it.

6 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:07:14am
7 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:08:11am

re: #5 thedopefishlives

Because Black President, that’s why.

And while I may be being sarcastic, I honestly would not be surprised to see some derper, somewhere, say it.

You already got Ron Paul calling this a false flag. Fucking insensitive prick.

8 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:09:32am

I’ve already seen kvetching that this text is overly broad and has no exit strategy.

Sure, that makes sense to commit to an exit strategy before you even have an entrance strategy.

9 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:10:36am

David Gregory currently interrupting John Kerry’s response to “sum up” what he was just saying.

10 Kragar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:10:39am
11 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:11:36am

re: #10 Kragar

[Embedded content]

That should have come with a Derp warning…

12 Kragar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:13:05am

re: #11 Justanotherhuman

That should have come with a Derp warning…

It did. Fischer’s face is the international warning sign for derp.

13 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:13:20am

re: #10 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Of course, if it was mostly Christians being killed by the Assad regime, he and Palin would be urging intervention immediately but because Syrian is predominately Muslim (never mind the fact that Allah is simply Arabic for God and Syrian Christians use the word too), it’s okay for Assad to commit democide because less Muslims is good for sick fucks like Fischer and Palin. Thanks again John McCain for nominating this toxic woman to be your VP and giving her credibility that she doesn’t deserve.

14 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:14:17am

Gregory rephrasing request for an exit strategy:
“How can Americans be confident that our first strike against Assad will be our last?”

15 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:14:39am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

You already got Ron Paul calling this a false flag. Fucking insensitive prick.

Yeah, I’ve seen his ugly mug all over Facebook. Douchecanoe.

16 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:14:56am

buzzfeed.com
Meanwhile you’ve got Scott Lively telling Putin to take care of LGBT like Russia did the Nazis. Christian fundamentalism is a sick twisted cult where hatred means more than love.

17 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:15:43am

re: #15 thedopefishlives

Yeah, I’ve seen his ugly mug all over Facebook. Douchecanoe.

I wish he’d go away. I thought he was retiring to leave politics. I guess not. Ron and Rand Paul are truly nasty pieces of work.

18 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:18:57am

Those complaining that this resolution is “overly broad” must remember it has not come before Congress yet. It will be debated, compromised, debated some more, ad nauseum.

No worries about that. And they should read the entire thing to the end: “Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution”, which can be found here: codes.lp.findlaw.com

19 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:19:54am

re: #18 Justanotherhuman

Those complaining that this resolution is “overly broad” must remember it has not come before Congress yet. It will be debated, compromised, debated some more, ad nauseum.

No worries about that. And they should read the entire thing to the end: “Nothing in this joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution”, which can be found here: codes.lp.findlaw.com

It’ll be “overly broad” until it lies dead on the House floor. These people won’t be satisfied with anything less.

20 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:21:15am

re: #19 thedopefishlives

It’ll be “overly broad” until it lies dead on the House floor. These people won’t be satisfied with anything less.

And then the House GOP leadership will be the first to blame Obama when Assad inevitably kills more of his own people. I really hope the people that stayed home in 2010 and allowed these ghouls to take over the House are happy with themselves. We need to get the GOP out of the majority in the House and ensure that they stay the minority in the Senate too.

21 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:21:28am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

I’ve already seen kvetching that this text is overly broad and has no exit strategy.

Sure, that makes sense to commit to an exit strategy before you even have an entrance strategy.

Both Clinton (Somalia) and Bush (Iraq) were roundly criticized by much the same
en.wikipedia.org

It’s really stupid. War isn’t a football game with a predictable timetable

22 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:22:23am

re: #20 HappyWarrior

And then the House GOP leadership will be the first to blame Obama when Assad inevitably kills more of his own people. I really hope the people that stayed home in 2010 and allowed these ghouls to take over the House are happy with themselves. We need to get the GOP out of the majority in the House and ensure that they stay the minority in the Senate too.

You nailed it.

23 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:23:31am

re: #18 Justanotherhuman

Those complaining that this resolution is “overly broad” must remember it has not come before Congress yet. It will be debated, compromised, debated some more, ad nauseum.

I would hazard a guess that this would be the least broad war-powers-related authorization in the modern era. Read to me like “go blow up some stockpiles and maybe drop some bridges and bunkers”. Hulk-smash whatever air defenses are stupid enough to light up.

24 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:23:42am

And on that note, I have a transmit chain that’s not going to rebuild itself!!!

laterz taterz

25 Skip Intro  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:24:34am

So am I right in assuming the consensus here is that it would be jolly to involve ourselves in another no-win ME war?

Kerry said Obama has the right to take action against Syria, with or without Congress’ approval. But he stopped short of saying Obama was committed to such a course even if lawmakers refuse to authorize force.

huffingtonpost.com

Gee, where have I heard that one before?

26 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:27:19am

As usual there are no Western hipsters in #Act2EndAssadsWar

27 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:28:08am

re: #25 Skip Intro

So am I right in assuming the consensus here is that it would be jolly to involve ourselves in another no-win ME war?

Speaking only for myself, I think I’d be fine with air strikes against known or suspected chemical weapons stockpiles, presuming we have sufficient intelligence to be relatively sure we’d get most of them.

I would portray things as: a Syrian civil war is an internal matter in which we have no business intervening. However, chemical weapons are sufficiently indiscriminate (sufficiently indiscriminate by design) to constitute a form of escalation that the US will not permit to occur, and so that capability is being selectively deleted from Assad’s arsenal.

28 blueraven  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:32:56am

re: #27 erik_t

Speaking only for myself, I think I’d be fine with air strikes against known or suspected chemical weapons stockpiles, presuming we have sufficient intelligence to be relatively sure we’d get most of them.

I would portray things as: a Syrian civil war is an internal matter in which we have no business intervening. However, chemical weapons are sufficiently indiscriminate (sufficiently indiscriminate by design) to constitute a form of escalation that the US will not permit to occur, and so that capability is being selectively deleted from Assad’s arsenal.

We can bomb chemical weapons stockpiles? I thought that was a no go. Wouldn’t that just cause more deaths by spreading the chemicals?

29 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:33:38am

re: #25 Skip Intro

Speaking for myself, I still have severe misgivings about getting involved in Syria at all. But this isn’t a case where a false rationale is being built to support an invasion - it’s the actual use of chemical weapons against a civilian population. Doing nothing about it doesn’t seem to be a good option either.

30 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:34:17am

Dudebro derp.

31 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:34:44am

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Speaking for myself, I still have severe misgivings about getting involved in Syria at all. But this isn’t a case where a false rationale is being built to support an invasion - it’s the actual use of chemical weapons against a civilian population. Doing nothing about it doesn’t seem to be a good option either.

And this is the conundrum we find ourselves in. It’s not like we WANT to get involved in Syria. But at this point, we just about HAVE to do something, because letting it stand and letting war criminals get away with it is no good either.

Damn. Foreign policy is HARD.

32 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:35:21am
33 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:35:23am

re: #28 blueraven

Depends on the weapon and the system used to strike, I think. I don’t proclaim expertise, but based on the phrasing of the legislation it looks to me like it’s a thing we can do.

Mustard, for example, is a nasty slimy molasses goop, rather than some big scary Cloud of Doom. Striking a mustard stockpile would probably result in a dangerous plot of no-go land that would have to be cleaned up someday, but it would no longer be a deployable weapon.

34 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:35:34am

re: #30 Gus

Dudebro derp.

Oh, FFS. Everything Obama does is grounds for impeachment according to wingnuts and dudebros.

35 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:38:14am

Sometimes I wonder if wingnuts/brogressives are under the impression that impeaching a president is some sort of magic wand that automatically and universally undoes every action the impeached president took up to that point.

What, do they expect Hypothetical President Biden to roll right over and sign an Obamacare repeal bill?

36 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:38:17am

re: #32 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

He has no solutions just scorn. Par the course for GG. Honestly, I wish Glenn would come on home from Brazil and put his money where his mouth is and run for office. He thinks he can do better? Fine Glenn, run for office and stop acting like the man can do no right and your worldview does no wrong.

37 blueraven  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:39:49am

re: #33 erik_t

Depends on the weapon and the system used to strike, I think. I don’t proclaim expertise, but based on the phrasing of the legislation it looks to me like it’s a thing we can do.

Mustard, for example, is a nasty slimy molasses goop, rather than some big scary Cloud of Doom. Striking a mustard stockpile would probably result in a dangerous plot of no-go land that would have to be cleaned up someday, but it would no longer be a deployable weapon.

I took the legislation to indicate we would take out the infrastructure used to attack with chemical weapons, not the chemicals weapons themselves.

38 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:39:56am

re: #35 erik_t

Sometimes I wonder if wingnuts/brogressives are under the impression that impeaching a president is some sort of magic wand that automatically and universally undoes every action the impeached president took up to that point.

What, do they expect Hypothetical President Biden to roll right over and sign an Obamacare repeal bill?

Well, clearly he would have to, or they would keep impeaching people until they got one that would do their bidding.

39 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:40:44am

The Founders obviously intended for impeachment to be something rare as possible and for much of our nation’s history. It was rare but then the wingnuts got all pissy over Watergate and wanted revenge.

40 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:41:58am

re: #38 thedopefishlives

Well, clearly he would have to, or they would keep impeaching people until they got one that would do their bidding.

The High Crime or Misdemeanor of Not Signing That Thing We Wanted You To Sign.

Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past them.

41 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:42:25am

So, yeah you have Obama impeached. Then what happens. President Biden. They find some fault with him. And then what? You’re either going to get President Boehner who the nutjobs don’t trust anyhow or Biden’s designated VP. This isn’t politics. This is sabotage because they don’t like who’s in office.

42 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:42:26am

re: #40 erik_t

The High Crime or Misdemeanor of Not Signing That Thing We Wanted You To Sign.

Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past them.

Or, Signing That Thing We Didn’t Want You To Sign. The travesty.

43 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:42:34am

re: #33 erik_t

Depends on the weapon and the system used to strike, I think. I don’t proclaim expertise, but based on the phrasing of the legislation it looks to me like it’s a thing we can do.

Mustard, for example, is a nasty slimy molasses goop, rather than some big scary Cloud of Doom. Striking a mustard stockpile would probably result in a dangerous plot of no-go land that would have to be cleaned up someday, but it would no longer be a deployable weapon.

We’ve got loads of dangerous no-go land right here in the good old USA, but it’s OK because corporations caused them…
We’re exceptional that way, you know…

44 Lidane  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:42:39am

re: #3 Kragar

I await the GOP’s response. It will be amusing to see them come up with reasons to oppose it.

Obummer’s war is too expensive! We have to defund Obamacare to pay for it!

45 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:42:56am

re: #40 erik_t

The High Crime or Misdemeanor of Not Signing That Thing We Wanted You To Sign.

Yeah, I wouldn’t put it past them.

The high crime of making us look bad derpy derpy.

46 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:43:14am

re: #44 Lidane

Obummer’s war is too expensive! We have to defund Obamacare to pay for it!

I bet you Ted Cruz and his advisers already have that one in the works.

47 Skip Intro  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:43:17am

re: #31 thedopefishlives

Why does it always have to be us? We’re still staggering under the cost of the last two ME adventures; do people really think that this will be a once in and done affair?

48 Skip Intro  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:44:44am

re: #30 Gus

Dudebro derp.

[Embedded content]

Actually, with the current GOP House, he’s probably right.

49 Lidane  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:45:24am

re: #47 Skip Intro

Why does it always have to be us?

50+ years of setting ourselves up as the world’s arbiter of democracy and freedom.

Also, when you spend more than the next dozen or so countries COMBINED on your military, there will always be people finding a reason to use all that firepower.

50 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:46:35am

re: #47 Skip Intro

Why does it always have to be us? We’re still staggering under the cost of the last two ME adventures; do people really think that this will be a once in and done affair?

Well yeah, maybe.

Back before Miss-Me-Yet-Well-No-I-Sure-Don’t derped us into two actual factual boots-on-the-ground invasions, we had a long and proud tradition of bombing folks we didn’t like and otherwise not getting in over our heads.

51 blueraven  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:50:08am

re: #47 Skip Intro

Why does it always have to be us? We’re still staggering under the cost of the last two ME adventures; do people really think that this will be a once in and done affair?

Libya

Now maybe that was not the exact same situation and everything isn’t perfect there now, but we didn’t get bogged down there either.

52 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:50:25am
53 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:51:01am

re: #47 Skip Intro

Why does it always have to be us? We’re still staggering under the cost of the last two ME adventures; do people really think that this will be a once in and done affair?

Phil Ochs sang it a long time ago:

Youtube Video

54 ObserverArt  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:01:23pm

My brain hurts. I think it might be PTSD. Pre Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I think I might have to cut back on internet use to lessen the symptoms.

55 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:03:53pm

THE USS SAN ANTONIO WITH 1000 MARINES ON BOARD IS NEAR SYRIA!!! WHO SAID THERE WON’T BE ANY BOOT ON THE GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

56 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:04:17pm

I’ve noticed a veritable horde of wingnuts recently who, having spent the last couple years thrilled that government is paralyzed to the point of uselessness by GOP obstructionism, now are getting irate that nothing is being done about Syria and view it as Obama “making us look weak!”

57 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:04:49pm

re: #47 Skip Intro

Why does it always have to be us? We’re still staggering under the cost of the last two ME adventures; do people really think that this will be a once in and done affair?

Considering we’re the only ones right now who seem to have the backbone to be outraged about the use of chemical warfare, unfortunately, that leaves the unenviable task to us.

59 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:07:30pm

Rand Paul: Gassing non-Christians, no problem, dude.
huffingtonpost.com

60 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:08:48pm

re: #59 jaunte

Sad thing is, most Republicans would agree with him, along with a certain male relative of mine.

61 Lidane  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:08:51pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

I’ve noticed a veritable horde of wingnuts recently who, having spent the last couple years thrilled that government is paralyzed to the point of uselessness by GOP obstructionism, now are getting irate that nothing is being done about Syria and view it as Obama “making us look weak!”

And I’m seeing the very same “libertarians” and conservatives that have been dutifully voting GOP and hating on Obama demanding to know why Teh Librulz are all automatically falling in line behind Obama on Syria and suggesting that there is no anti-war sentiment on the left right now.

You know, because it’s a done deal that every Dem will vote to strike and that going to Congress is a mere formality. Hurr durr.

I’m not thrilled by the idea of going and striking Syria. This is a civil war with no good outcomes that we have no business getting involved with. But the deliberate and obvious use of chemical weapons presents a dilemma.

62 Denji  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:09:15pm

re: #31 thedopefishlives

And this is the conundrum we find ourselves in. It’s not like we WANT to get involved in Syria. But at this point, we just about HAVE to do something, because letting it stand and letting war criminals get away with it is no good either.

Damn. Foreign policy is HARD.

This is basically where I find myself as well. For some reason what to do with Syria is one of the hardest questions for me to figure out in the past few years. There is this combination of a moral imperative to do something with the reluctance to intervene in a complicated situation we don’t fully understand. If there were any good guys in the area to point to, it might be easier. I guess it’s nice to be reminded that not every problem has an easy solution. Foreign policy does seem to be filled with these questions. I don’t envy the president, and I’m glad he decided to consult Congress. No one should make this decision alone.

CCBC

63 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:09:17pm
64 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:10:39pm
65 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:11:12pm
66 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:11:21pm

re: #59 jaunte

Rand Paul: Gassing non-Christians, no problem, dude.
huffingtonpost.com

but, of course…

heavy sigh…

67 ObserverArt  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:14:40pm

Does the State Department have invoice forms?

I’d be calling a whole ton of countries in the Middle East and surrounding areas and telling them we are conducting some law enforcement business in their names and to expect invoices for the charges. Thank You for prompt payment and have a pleasant few years before the next mess.

68 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:15:57pm

re: #63 Gus

Results for USS San Antonio boots on the ground

Derp.

Strike Groups: These formations come in two basic types: the Carrier Strike Group (CSG) and the Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG), which would feature an amphibious assault ship at its center rather than a big deck carrier. CSGs generally are commanded by rear admirals, and ESGs by rear admirals or a Marine brigadier general. Both strike groups have destroyers, cruisers and a submarine attached as part of the force. Once in theater, these units can either operate in concert in supporting and supported roles or can be detached singly or in groups to perform other tasks and missions.cfr.org

69 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:19:44pm

re: #68 jaunte

ZOMG! OBAMA SENT A STRIKE GROUP TO SYRIA PEOPLE!!!!! A STRIKE GROUP!!!! WHO SAID HE WON’T PUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND!!111111TY?

70 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:20:27pm

re: #59 jaunte

Rand Paul: Gassing non-Christians, no problem, dude.
huffingtonpost.com

Rand Paul: Assad Apologist. Just another title along with Confederate apologist, Jim Crow apologist.

71 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:22:25pm

re: #69 Gus

He used a four-wheeled vehicle when he only really needed three wheels!

72 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:29:26pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

I was going to post this, but instead I’m promoting your Page…

Thanks, this is really one of those where Pres.Obama said it better than I could. This was a very pleasant surprise after just coming in from the beach.
I think those who are very unhappy with our President over this are grasping at straws.

73 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:31:47pm

I don’t know which is funnier at this point, the wingnuts who are now irate that Obama wants to do something about Syria or the dudebros who are absolutely sure that the whole thing is a false flag operation. It’s like a perfect storm of derp.

74 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:49:19pm

re: #73 Targetpractice

I don’t know which is funnier at this point, the wingnuts who are now irate that Obama wants to do something about Syria or the dudebros who are absolutely sure that the whole thing is a false flag operation. It’s like a perfect storm of derp.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right. Rinse and repeat.

75 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:51:03pm

Nice to see Robert Fisk hasn’t changed….
Robert Fisk: Once Washington made the Middle East tremble - now no one there takes it seriously

And you only had to watch Obama on Saturday to see why.


For there he was, prattling on in the most racist way about “ancient sectarian differences” in the Middle East. Since when was the president of the United States an expert on these supposed “sectarian differences”?

Obama, who is becoming more and more preacher-like, wants to be the Punisher-in-Chief of the Western World, the Avenger-in-Chief. There is something oddly Roman about him. And the Romans were good at two things. They believed in law and they believed in crucifixion. The US constitution - American “values” and the cruise missile have a faintly similar focus. The lesser races must be civilized and they must be punished, even if the itsy-bitsy tiny missile launches look more like perniciousness than war. Everyone outside the Roman Empire was called a barbarian. Everyone outside Obama’s empire is called a terrorist.

76 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:54:20pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Nice to see Robert Fisk hasn’t changed….
Robert Fisk: Once Washington made the Middle East tremble - now no one there takes it seriously

Yes, what we really need is a dumb Texan in the White House who wants to take us on a “crusade”!

////

77 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:55:20pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

It’s hard to tell what he wants.

78 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:56:37pm

Correction:


That of course won’t stop the Tweeps here.

79 Lidane  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 12:58:09pm

re: #76 Targetpractice

Yes, what we really need is a dumb Texan in the White House who wants to take us on a “crusade”!

////

80 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:03:28pm

*facepalm* Oh good lord.

‘Syrian rebels take responsibility for the chemical attack admitting the weapons were provided by Saudis’ - source

A wingnut just sent that to me, declaring it “proof” that it’s all a “false flag.”

Never thought I’d see the day I’d run into a Republican who didn’t want to go to war.

81 blueraven  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:03:58pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Nice to see Robert Fisk hasn’t changed….
Robert Fisk: Once Washington made the Middle East tremble - now no one there takes it seriously

Are you in agreement or disagreement with the piece KT?
You post stuff like this with very ambiguous commentary…but perhaps that is the point.

82 thedopefishlives  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:07:08pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

*facepalm* Oh good lord.

‘Syrian rebels take responsibility for the chemical attack admitting the weapons were provided by Saudis’ - source

A wingnut just sent that to me, declaring it “proof” that it’s all a “false flag.”

Never thought I’d see the day I’d run into a Republican who didn’t want to go to war.

Because there’s a black man in the White House and he’d take the credit for it.

83 Lidane  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:07:29pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

A wingnut just sent that to me, declaring it “proof” that it’s all a “false flag.”

Gotta love the American right linking to blatant Russian propaganda to prove a point. ROFL.

Ideological consistency, they haz none.

Never thought I’d see the day I’d run into a Republican who didn’t want to go to war.

But Assad is “protecting Christians” don’tcha know! Plus gassing scary Muslims is totally okay. Obummer is just wanting to attack the enemies of his buddies in the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda!

84 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:07:37pm

re: #77 jaunte

It’s hard to tell what he wants.

He can be a hard one to figure out. He’s more or less along the lines of George Galloway or Ward Churchill. He hates the West with overwhelming passion.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:09:32pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

*facepalm* Oh good lord.

‘Syrian rebels take responsibility for the chemical attack admitting the weapons were provided by Saudis’ - source

A wingnut just sent that to me, declaring it “proof” that it’s all a “false flag.”

Never thought I’d see the day I’d run into a Republican who didn’t want to go to war.

That “source” person sure does get around a lot…

86 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:09:41pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

He can be a hard one to figure out. He’s more or less along the lines of George Galloway or Ward Churchill. He hates the West with overwhelming passion.

Interesting to note that they’re all Anglos, live in the West, and enjoy the West’s luxury’s.

87 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:11:36pm

re: #83 Lidane

Gotta love the American right linking to blatant Russian propaganda to prove a point. ROFL.

Ideological consistency, they haz none.

But Assad is “protecting Christians” don’tcha know! Plus gassing scary Muslims is totally okay. Obummer is just wanting to attack the enemies of his buddies in the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda!

Pretty much. “Al-Q admitted to the attack! Obama’s lying to cover for them, because he wants to put them into power!”

88 EPR-radar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:11:42pm

There is still nothing more substantive at RedState regarding Obama’s request for congressional authorization than some feeble snarking about Obama being late for his own presser.

This really does look like a case where the wingnut leaders are having difficulty deciding exactly how Obama is committing yet another outrage by going to Congress.

Perhaps Rush Limbaugh is in the Dominican Republic again and can’t be bothered with US politics this weekend.

89 Lidane  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:11:44pm

re: #86 Gus

Interesting to note that they’re all Anglos, live in the West, and enjoy the West’s luxury’s.

White privilege is a hell of a thing.

90 Political Atheist  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:12:28pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

*facepalm* Oh good lord.

‘Syrian rebels take responsibility for the chemical attack admitting the weapons were provided by Saudis’ - source

A wingnut just sent that to me, declaring it “proof” that it’s all a “false flag.”

Never thought I’d see the day I’d run into a Republican who didn’t want to go to war.

Right. Skeptical as hell of anything Obama or Kerry says or shows, but instantly going to accept that Arab street report as gospel. Textbook confirmation bias.

91 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:13:43pm

Here’s a thought. ISIS and AQ actually make up a small minority of the rebel groups in Syria. Both are actually less of a threat to Israel in the region compared to Hezbollah, Iran, and the Republican Guard.

92 EPR-radar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:13:49pm

re: #86 Gus

Interesting to note that they’re all Anglos, live in the West, and enjoy the West’s luxury’s.

This is the same magnitude of stupidity that Western apologists for the USSR (and even Stalin in the worst cases) demonstrated.

93 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:14:10pm

Hezbollah, Iran, and the Republican Guard are in support of Assad.

94 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:15:20pm

re: #90 Political Atheist

Right. Skeptical as hell of anything Obama or Kerry says or shows, but instantly going to accept that Arab street report as gospel. Textbook confirmation bias.

And note how selective that acceptance is. These are people who were quick to ignore or deny the same guy accused of being on Al-Q’s payroll while attacking Benghazi saying aloud that the attack was due to outrage from the video.

95 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:16:41pm
96 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:17:29pm

re: #86 Gus

Interesting to note that they’re all Anglos, live in the West, and enjoy the West’s luxury’s.

In America we would call it “white guilt” but for the European leftists in more a shame reaction to colonialism but the concept is still the same.

97 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:21:56pm

re: #95 Gus

[Embedded content]

“Hot potato! CATCH!”

98 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:23:07pm

re: #97 Targetpractice

::: putting on BBQ gloves ::: I am ready.

99 miclaine  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:23:47pm

The problem with Syria is there are no good guys. The poor citizens are being killed & intimidated by both the rebels and Assad’s forces. Only the citizens are suffering. The Alawites have held sway over the Arabs and the tide is turning. But no matter who wins, the surrounding areas and the regular folks are getting F’d.

100 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:26:35pm
101 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:29:40pm

Taste the meat, not the heat
Syrian Sunni Arab citizen soldiers attack regime outpost with propane canister: Aleppo City (Sept 1st, ‘13)
Liveleak Video

102 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:29:59pm

Might as well just go ahead and tear up the Chemical Weapons Convention treaty, because it’s obvious that there is nobody who will enforce it. The UN is paralyzed so long as the offending nation is a client state of a Security Council member, the West is paralyzed by war fatigue, and the Arab League just doesn’t give a shit because it won’t admit out loud it supports Assad.

103 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:32:00pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

Taste the meat, not the heat
Syrian Sunni Arab citizen soldiers attack regime outpost with propane canister: Aleppo City (Sept 1st, ‘13)
[Embedded content]

pretty ingenious contraption but I’m pretty sure the explosion at the end is not from a propane canister

104 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:32:18pm

...

105 makeitstop  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:32:46pm

Two things:

1. Rep. Peter King (R-IRA) is on the record as saying that Obama’s seeking of Congressional approval for actions against Syria will ‘weaken future presidents.’ Call me skeptical, but I think he left the word ‘Republican’ out of that statement.

2. I’m seeing a lot of wingnuts on Facebook showing uniformed military holding placards over their faces saying ’ I did not join (insert branch of service here) to fight in Syria’s civil war!’ Like we’re already invading or something.

The Derp Train never stops, and it rarely even slows down. Sigh…

106 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:34:08pm

re: #105 makeitstop

Two things:

1. Rep. Peter King (R-IRA) is on the record as saying that Obama’s seeking of Congressional approval for actions against Syria will ‘weaken future presidents.’ Call me skeptical, but I think he left the word ‘Republican’ out of that statement.

2. I’m seeing a lot of wingnuts on Facebook showing uniformed military holding placards over their faces saying ’ I did not join (insert branch of service here) to fight in Syria’s civil war!’ Like we’re already invading or something.

The Derp Train never stops, and it rarely even slows down. Sigh…

Yes, but I’m sure they all joined to “liberate” the Iraqi people, right?

Yegods.

107 Kragar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:34:20pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

pretty ingenious contraption but I’m pretty sure the explosion at the end is not from a propane canister

The propane was probably the propellant.

108 Bulworth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:34:47pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

OFFS

109 erik_t  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:35:11pm

re: #105 makeitstop

2. I’m seeing a lot of wingnuts on Facebook showing uniformed military holding placards over their faces saying ’ I did not join (insert branch of service here) to fight in Syria’s civil war!’

Member of a volunteer military saying they don’t support an overseas war: totes legit.
Members of a random civilian country-music band saying they don’t support an overseas war: ZOMG BOYCOTT UN-‘MURRICAN

110 Bulworth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:37:51pm

re: #109 erik_t

Wingnuts turning dovish. Who knew?

111 Kragar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:39:32pm
112 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:40:05pm

re: #109 erik_t

Member of a volunteer military saying they don’t support an overseas war: totes legit.
Members of a random civilian country-music band saying they don’t support an overseas war: ZOMG BOYCOTT UN-‘MURRICAN

Seriously. Bunch of double standarded bullshit. I am ambivalent to the Dixie Chicks music but damn the shit they took for having the gall to say that the war in Iraq wasn’t a good idea was so stupid.

113 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:41:06pm

re: #111 Kragar

It was listed this morning. littlegreenfootballs.com

114 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:41:16pm

OK, troops. We’re going to be invading France. I’m going to need some volunteers. Many of you may note be returning home. However, before volunteering I’d like to get your thoughts on this…

115 EPR-radar  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:41:39pm

re: #105 makeitstop

Two things:

1. Rep. Peter King (R-IRA) is on the record as saying that Obama’s seeking of Congressional approval for actions against Syria will ‘weaken future presidents.’ Call me skeptical, but I think he left the word ‘Republican’ out of that statement.

2. I’m seeing a lot of wingnuts on Facebook showing uniformed military holding placards over their faces saying ’ I did not join (insert branch of service here) to fight in Syria’s civil war!’ Like we’re already invading or something.

The Derp Train never stops, and it rarely even slows down. Sigh…

There better not be any future GOP presidents, at least as long as the nuts are in charge of that party.

116 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:42:01pm
117 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:42:51pm

re: #114 Gus

Can I have the Rothschilds vineyards?

118 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:44:51pm

I don’t know what people realistically expect. Of course, the same people who are bitching about this the most are the same people who shut down anyone who had legitimate questions about Iraq. So, yeah I’m leery of the doves come lately and especially those like Rand Paul who have “discovered” that Al-Assad is okay because he has some support among Syria’s Christians.

119 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:45:21pm

re: #105 makeitstop

Two things:

1. Rep. Peter King (R-IRA) is on the record as saying that Obama’s seeking of Congressional approval for actions against Syria will ‘weaken future presidents.’ Call me skeptical, but I think he left the word ‘Republican’ out of that statement.

2. I’m seeing a lot of wingnuts on Facebook showing uniformed military holding placards over their faces saying ’ I did not join (insert branch of service here) to fight in Syria’s civil war!’ Like we’re already invading or something.

The Derp Train never stops, and it rarely even slows down. Sigh…

Got any FB links for that?

120 Belafon  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:49:01pm

re: #47 Skip Intro

At the same time, does foreign policy just stop because Bush spent a lot of money on Iraq and Afghanistan?

It’s good to look through the lense of previous presidential fuckups to figure out how we should not do things. At the same time, you really do have to resist the urge to look at all matters and go “we fucked up last time, we’d better not try anything else.” I’m not arguing here whether we should or should not do anything in Syria, but swinging to the other extreme as a reation to Bush is not the way to go.

121 ObserverArt  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:50:31pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

I don’t know what people realistically expect. Of course, the same people who are bitching about this the most are the same people who shut down anyone who had legitimate questions about Iraq. So, yeah I’m leery of the doves come lately and especially those like Rand Paul who have “discovered” that Al-Assad is okay because he has some support among Syria’s Christians.

They don’t know what to expect either. But by God, they don’t like what they don’t know and they are going to tell Obama about it.

The stupid in this is already on the increase and we seem to be headed for damaging levels.

122 makeitstop  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:50:49pm

re: #119 Gus

Got any FB links for that?

Image links:

Image: 1235936_471952889568804_1475259050_n.jpg

Image: 1185266_225491330939003_236276677_n.jpg

Image: 1175518_591742540869597_579967479_n.jpg

From a variety of wingnut Facebook groups.

123 Belafon  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:51:09pm

re: #105 makeitstop

Having done that military thing before, either those pictures are fake, or those people could end up in a lot of trouble. You can protest; you can’t protest in uniform.

124 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:51:16pm


re: #122 makeitstop

Image links:

Image: 1235936_471952889568804_1475259050_n.jpg

Image: 1185266_225491330939003_236276677_n.jpg

Image: 1175518_591742540869597_579967479_n.jpg

From a variety of wingnut Facebook groups.

Thanks.

125 jaunte  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:53:39pm

re: #124 Gus

“Guaranteed actual military opinion based on costume.”

126 Gus  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 1:56:01pm

re: #125 jaunte

“Guaranteed actual military opinion based on costume.”

Could be that too.

127 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 2:03:06pm

re: #114 Gus

OK, troops. We’re going to be invading France. I’m going to need some volunteers. Many of you may note be returning home. However, before volunteering I’d like to get your thoughts on this…

dibs on the wine stores!

128 ObserverArt  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 2:05:01pm

Those uniformed soldiers protesting seems to be a true creation of the instant internet. And not a good one at that. The net sure allows people to be crass and classless. Sometimes it really is not good to show your ass. But that doesn’t stop them. Then others turn it into a mindless following of thoughtlessness.

I really do not get it. And I love computers and the technology. It’s really disappointing. We’re going to see a whole lot more of it too.

129 Lawrence Schmerel  Sun, Sep 1, 2013 11:05:45pm

Obama’s decision to put before Congress the decision about Syria is a wise move. He had boxed himself in with his “red line” statement. Now he has a way out of that box. I don’t see how could he not expect this Congress to deny him. But, if they do, they can own it.

However, considering how much he has done to go around Congress whenever he has felt that action is urgently necessary, it does call into doubt that he thinks a strike on Syria is.


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