LGF Poll: Do You Support Limited Military Action Against Syria?

Poll • Views: 68,756

A simple question for our readers:

LGF Poll

Do you support limited military action against Syria, to respond to the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons against civilians?

557/34.7%Yes
746/46.5%No
302/18.8%Undecided

Votes allowed: 1
Expires: 2013-09-06 00:00:00

(This poll is closed.)

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486 comments

1 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:17:49am

I’d support an exfiltration of Assad to stand trial for crimes against humanity: GET HIM TO THE HAGUE.

2 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:18:29am

Rand Paul: “I probably won’t vote for any resolution.”

Weenie.

3 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:19:12am

Idealistically, I’d like it to be that we didn’t feel military intervention to be an option, let alone necessary. Realistically, I can’t see how we can just sit back and say that the usage of chemical weapons on civilians will draw no repercussions.

4 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:19:17am

Undecided, but if I were in Congress I’d vote to authorize. There are no ‘good guys’ in this, it seems, and the use of gas should be responded to, but it shouldn’t just be us and France.

5 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:19:32am

I support the idea of military intervention, though its actual scope and implementation would affect my support of the issue over all.

If its another farcical air war like the bombing campagin in Bosnia, then forget all about it.

If its actually conducted in support of assets who can exploit the attacks on the ground, then I would say yes.

6 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:20:47am

I guess I’m undecided here. I suppose I’d support actions that would dramatically weaken the Assad regime’s ability to use chemical weapons on their subjects,

7 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:21:08am

re: #3 Targetpractice

Idealistically, I’d like it to be that we didn’t feel military intervention to be an option, let alone necessary. Realistically, I can’t see how we can just sit back and say that the usage of chemical weapons on civilians will draw no repercussions.

This.

8 erik_t  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:21:33am

I support it in principle, in that there are responses I would support. I would need to see a more detailed plan before deciding whether I supported that plan in particular.

There are many, many ways for this to go wrong.

9 Dr. Matt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:21:54am

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I’m glad I’m not the president…Enough said.

10 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:22:11am

I voted in the affirmative. When I get a chance in the next day or so, I’m going to page all my reasons for intervention, and then I’m going to play Devil’s advocate and argue for those opposed.

The short version:

The CWC and Geneva Conventions aren’t merely some abstract document. It’s a call to action to stop use of these weapons, and to protect civilian populations. Assad is purposefully using these weapons as a means to show he’s going to fight to the end, bolstering his supporters, but also signaling to everyone that he’s going to do anything and everything within his power to remain in power.

There’s going to be no golden parachute route for him. No one is going to give him a one-way ticket to a island hideaway in exile. He’s going to remain in power or die trying.

The opposition know that they’re going to either have to eliminate the regime, or they’re going to face still more carnage. And if the opposition wins, then Assad’s allies are going to be in line for a bloodbath of their own for supporting Assad’s use of WMD. And all that will have repercussions on Syria’s neighbors too - an exodus of still more refugees.

On the other hand, intervening means potentially giving al Qaeda and Islamists the upper hand in a fight where they may use yet another failed state as a beachhead to carry out future attacks against the US and its interests in the region and around the world. Forget stability here - it’s about being predictable. Assad is predictable; AQ and the Islamists are predictable in only that they’re going to go after the US, Israel and Western interests in the region increasing the chances for chaos.

11 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:23:41am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

I’m still pissed it took us this long to actually get us to sit up and take notice.

“You can have anti-aircraft tanks drive along city streets firing randomly into civilian housing. We were okay with that, but now you’re taking it too far.”

12 erik_t  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:23:48am

re: #10 lawhawk

I voted in the affirmative. When I get a chance in the next day or so, I’m going to page all my reasons for intervention, and then I’m going to play Devil’s advocate and argue for those opposed.

The short version:

The CWC and Geneva Conventions aren’t merely some abstract document. It’s a call to action to stop use of these weapons, and to protect civilian populations.

I am perfectly willing to be called to action that the United Nations does not legally sanction. These conventions have done a hell of a lot more for humanity than the UNSC can ever dream.

13 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:24:00am

I am so, so glad this isn’t my decision to make. Yes, I’m weaseling out.
On the one hand, I want to stop Assad. On the other hand, there are sure to be unintended consequences and no guarantee of success. I just don’t know.

14 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:24:09am

I think too many people assume that Pres Obama wants an invasion of Syria.

Not what he said at all. But the refugee problem from Syria is reaching crisis proportions, and countries like Lebanon, Jordan, etc are becoming unable to handle the flow, along with Iraq and Egypt, which have their own problems.

15 TDG2112  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:24:27am

The US interest here is to keep these weapons from falling into the hands of Terrorists.

Will a limited bombing run do that? Will any level of intervention do it? And at what point does the cost become too high to achieve our interest here?

The other “interest” we might call is the US Credibility, since Obama drew the line in the sand. Now he’s gotta do it or look weak. This is a whole different can of worms, and from what I can tell only matters to the enemies that matter if we use massive force, which nobody is talking about.

16 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:26:04am

Not quite mom’s basement, but Greenwald in his natural environment:

17 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:26:26am

re: #11 Kragar

I’m still pissed it took us this long to actually get us to sit up and take notice.

“You can have anti-aircraft tanks drive along city streets firing randomly into civilian housing. We were okay with that, but now you’re taking it too far.”

He’s a monster and frankly the attempts to downplay that by the president’s critics are fucked the hell up.

18 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:26:36am

I’m still laughing at the people freaking out over Marines being on boats in the Med.

There are thousands of Marines at sea around the world 365 days a year. They can be anywhere on Earth in a matter of days. The fact you didn’t realize this is not breaking news.

19 erik_t  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:26:58am

re: #16 lawhawk

Not quite mom’s basement, but Greenwald in his natural environment:

Now I know why Teh GG learned how dogwhistle.

20 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:27:09am

Maybe Obama really does not want to go to war, so he will say that he wants an invasion of Syria just so Congress will vote against it!

21 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:27:18am

Oy.

Bill Neely ‏@billneelyitv 10m

“The media is a weapon of mass destruction” says #Syria Ambo to the #UN

22 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:27:41am

re: #13 calochortus

I am so, so glad this isn’t my decision to make. Yes, I’m weaseling out.
On the one hand, I want to stop Assad. On the other hand, there are sure to be unintended consequences and no guarantee of success. I just don’t know.

There are unintended consequences to inaction as well.

Inaction is an action - and Assad knows this better than anyone. Every day the UN, West, and the US specifically don’t take action is another day that Assad knows that his strategy to wield WMD against the opposition in small but steadily growing doses is one that will keep him in power for the foreseeable future.

23 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:28:09am

re: #16 lawhawk

Not quite mom’s basement, but Greenwald in his natural environment:

[Embedded content]

I always pictured him as a cat person.

24 klys  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:29:40am

re: #23 Vicious Babushka

I always pictured him as a cat person.

Cats have better taste.

25 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:29:49am

re: #17 HappyWarrior

He’s a monster and frankly the attempts to downplay that by the president’s critics are fucked the hell up.

Wingnuts and dudebros alike are almost outright arguing for him to be kept in power. Got all the flavor of Cold War-era realpolitiks.

26 Lawrence Schmerel  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:30:06am

I voted “yes.” The strike need only be limited to removing some strategic advantage from Al-Assad. It doesn’t have to be a game-changer. The strike only has to show him that he can’t use chemical weapons without consequences.

27 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:30:12am

re: #22 lawhawk

There are unintended consequences to inaction as well.

Inaction is an action - and Assad knows this better than anyone. Every day the UN, West, and the US specifically don’t take action is another day that Assad knows that his strategy to wield WMD against the opposition in small but steadily growing doses is one that will keep him in power for the foreseeable future.

Absolutely true. Which is what makes it difficult. Where we act and how seems almost random at times. All that is certain is that we will be blamed whatever we do or don’t do. Sigh.

28 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:30:17am

re: #14 Justanotherhuman

I think too many people assume that Pres Obama wants an invasion of Syria.

I get this from my brother on FB all the time. Yesterday he was saying that McCain and Graham support Obama’s policy, so he should rethink it. I pointed out that they don’t really, because they want a whole hell of a lot more intervention than Obama seems to be contemplating.

Any course of action, including INaction, has consequences, potentially negative ones, and whatever course one advocates, one must accept those consequences.

29 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:31:51am

Assad knew he’d get a luke-warm response from the international community because he knows what everyone else does. Many of the opposition are indeed jihadists. It really sucks that as always, innocents get caught in the middle. I’m torn but leaning towards the option of letting everyone else in the neighborhood deal with him. I know that’s unlikely to ever happen, especially since they always have others doing all their dirty work for them (us). Call it war fatigue, being soured by Iraq/Afghanistan, whatever. But I know I’m not alone with these feelings.

We are screwed either way. I’d just prefer to be screwed by not being drawn into an “unplanned” extended conflict we can’t afford with money or lives.

30 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:32:22am

I voted yes.

I would like to see strikes against Assad’s air assets. The WMDs will be a lot tougher to deliver if the jets are unable to take off and the airstrips are full of craters.

31 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:32:23am

re: #18 Kragar

I’m still laughing at the people freaking out over Marines being on boats in the Med.

There are thousands of Marines at sea around the world 365 days a year. They can be anywhere on Earth in a matter of days. The fact you didn’t realize this is not breaking news.

THEN WHY DIDN’T OBAMBI SEND THEM TO RESCUE THE MURRICANS IN BENGHAZIIIIIII!!!!!!!!11!!1!!

32 blueraven  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:32:48am

Senate hearings on Syria coming up in a few minutes.

33 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:33:49am

re: #17 HappyWarrior

He’s a monster and frankly the attempts to downplay that by the president’s critics are fucked the hell up.

Indeed he is, but we know him. Those likely to take over in a power vacuum will undoubtedly be worse, however. Better the devil you know…

34 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:33:51am

re: #32 blueraven

Senate hearings on Syria coming up in a few minutes.

So any bets on who will be the first to suggest that the rebels were the source of the chemical weapons?

35 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:33:53am

An excellent in-depth analysis from William Polk, long-time foreign policy analyst for the Atlantic and Kennedy-era State Department: Your Labor Day Syria Reader, Part 2: William Polk - James Fallows - the Atlantic.

He concludes it’s a bad idea to attack.

36 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:33:54am

DERP
Pamela has been wanting WAR with Syria (and the whole rest of the Muslim world) but now she’s conflicted because OBAMA!!11!!

37 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:34:33am
38 blueraven  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:34:56am

re: #34 Targetpractice

So any bets on who will be the first to suggest that the rebels were the source of the chemical weapons?

I would bet on Rand Paul.

39 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:35:41am

re: #38 blueraven

I would bet on Rand Paul.

No fair taking the safe bet!

40 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:36:30am

re: #33 GlutenFreeJesus

Indeed he is, but we know him. Those likely to take over in a power vacuum will undoubtedly be worse, however. Better the devil you know…

True and I realize that. I am just tired of hearing from Rand Paul “But Assad defends Christians!” as if that means it’s okay for Assad to gas his own people.

41 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:37:50am

re: #34 Targetpractice

So any bets on who will be the first to suggest that the rebels were the source of the chemical weapons?

I see that crap over on the comments at TPM and MotherJones.

42 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:37:52am

Protestors already in hearing room…

43 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:38:03am

re: #36 Vicious Babushka

DERP
Pamela has been wanting WAR with Syria (and the whole rest of the Muslim world) but now she’s conflicted because OBAMA!!11!!

[Embedded content]

Well when your whole agenda is NOBAMA, I can see why she’d feel conflicted at the possibility of weakening one of the ME’s biggest tyrants.

44 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:38:21am

re: #40 HappyWarrior

True and I realize that. I am just tired of hearing from Rand Paul “But Assad defends Christians!” as if that means it’s okay for Assad to gas his own people.

He’s going to be an asshole regardless.

45 jaunte  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:38:32am
46 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:38:47am

re: #44 GlutenFreeJesus

He’s going to be an asshole regardless.

No doubt and that’s part of why I’m undecided.

47 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:38:54am

re: #34 Targetpractice

So any bets on who will be the first to suggest that the rebels were the source of the chemical weapons?

Mike Lee - Utah

48 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:39:11am

re: #34 Targetpractice

So any bets on who will be the first to suggest that the rebels were the source of the chemical weapons?

GOHMERT!

49 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:39:17am

re: #47 Kragar

Mike Lee - Utah

Hmm, good choice.

50 erik_t  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:39:48am

Code Pink and the Tea Party dead-enders should have thrown a Labor Day barbecue together.

51 Archangelus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:40:13am

Sorry to go somewhat off-topic for a moment, but a small request for Charles if he sees this: since it seems I can’t make any changes to my previous post on Syria anymore, could you please make a small change and replace the word “Report:” from the link to “IsraelDefense:” (where the article is from)? I feel really bad not properly crediting the source to begin with…

52 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:40:36am


53 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:40:44am

re: #41 Pavlovian Hive Mind

I see that crap over on the comments at TPM and MotherJones.

Apparently Limbaugh said something to that effect as well. I didn’t want to actually wade into that cesspool. Suffice to say, this is really bring out the circle of derp.

54 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:40:44am
55 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:40:47am

re: #45 jaunte

[Embedded content]

You know, I don’t blame them for being reticent but their tactics suck balls. I still remember when one of their members I think either tried to or succeeded in putting red paint on Secretary Rice. That kind of shit is just silly and it distracts from the real importance of the issues at hand by turning it into a “Hey look at us, we’re Code Pink.”

56 Robert O.  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:41:11am

I voted no:

1. There are no good guys in this fight. There is no indication the ragtag rebels are capable of ruling. The Islamists could be even worse than Assad.
2. The US is not the world’s policeman, and the world should not expect the US to be one.
3. Even a limited strike could draw the US into a conflict that is not our own. What’s next? No fly zone? Then a full on occupation and peacekeeping operation like in Iraq?
4. It is not right to start new military operations while we need to cut the budget across the board because of the ongoing deficit.
5. Haven’t we learned a lesson from Iraq?
6. Drawing a red line at using chemical weapons to kill 1,000 people is arbitrary in a civil war that has already killed more than 100,000. The US is really not in a good position to enforce red lines unless it is prepared for invasion and occupation. This include the red line on Iran’s nuclear activities.

57 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:42:18am

Okay, and let’s suppose that the rebels were indeed behind the WMD attack.

That would still mean the need to deal with the threat.

It would indicate that Assad’s WMD stocks are not secured, and that the rebels have access to a supply of weapons. They would need to be stopped as well, because they just as surely could attempt attacks against Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, or Israel depending on their mood (or transporting for use in Europe or the US).

If anything, that possibility would make the need to act all the more important since a rogue group with WMD is often considered a worst-case scenario.

58 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:42:46am

re: #52 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah Matt you care so much about “libertarian” that you’re praising Vladimir Putin as the leader of the free world so pardon my ass while I take everything you say with a mountain of salt.

59 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:43:01am

re: #51 Archangelus

Sorry to go somewhat off-topic for a moment, but a small request for Charles if he sees this: since it seems I can’t make any changes to my previous post on Syria anymore, could you please make a small change and replace the word “Report:” from the link to “IsraelDefense:” (where the article is from)? I feel really bad not properly crediting the source to begin with…

No problem, I made the change - but the link itself is usually considered enough credit, I think.

60 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:43:26am

re: #47 Kragar

Gohmert. Or Steve King.

61 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:43:29am

I went undecided. I want to hear what is going to be coming out today to further judge what they might reveal as limited.

Can we get another vote maybe in a day or two to see how well the explanation and the selling of the action goes?

62 b.d.  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:43:33am
A simple question for our readers:

That really wasn’t a simple question.

[joe wilson] You Lie!![/joe wilson]

63 jaunte  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:44:05am
64 Archangelus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:44:05am

Again off-topic, but I suddenly wondered: is there a way for LGFers to send messages to one another or to contact through the site?

65 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:44:12am

re: #57 lawhawk

Okay, and let’s suppose that the rebels were indeed behind the WMD attack.

That would still mean the need to deal with the threat.

It would indicate that Assad’s WMD stocks are not secured, and that the rebels have access to a supply of weapons. They would need to be stopped as well, because they just as surely could attempt attacks against Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, or Israel depending on their mood (or transporting for use in Europe or the US).

If anything, that possibility would make the need to act all the more important since a rogue group with WMD is often considered a worst-case scenario.

I believe Secretary Kerry as a candidate for president made a good point about how proliferation was a big issue. Of course, too many people were focusing on the Swift Boat ads and shouting flip-flopper but alas it was true in 2004 and it’s true nearly a decade later.

66 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:44:26am

re: #57 lawhawk

Okay, and let’s suppose that the rebels were indeed behind the WMD attack.

That would still mean the need to deal with the threat.

It would indicate that Assad’s WMD stocks are not secured, and that the rebels have access to a supply of weapons. They would need to be stopped as well, because they just as surely could attempt attacks against Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Jordan, or Israel depending on their mood (or transporting for use in Europe or the US).

If anything, that possibility would make the need to act all the more important since a rogue group with WMD is often considered a worst-case scenario.

You’re overlooking the obvious wingnut response.

Obama obviously provided the rebels with the nerve gas to launch the attack, so he would have the excuse he needed to attack Syria.

67 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:44:27am

re: #52 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Says the man who thinks Putin is the leader of the free world….

68 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:45:01am

re: #60 lawhawk

Gohmert. Or Steve King.

Not Senators.

69 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:45:14am

re: #67 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Says the man who thinks Putin is the leader of the free world….

yeah no fucking kidding. A man who thinks it should be a criminal offense to say “LGBT people deserve equality under the law” is not the leader of the free world.

70 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:45:51am

re: #63 jaunte

We really need to update congressional rules to have them working more of the year, and mandatory attendance of hearings.

This is getting re-fucking-diculous.

71 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:46:00am

re: #68 Kragar

Not Senators.

Oh only senators. Ted Cruz? Or will Ted’s tact be more like “I’ll support this only if ACA is repealed” since Ted Cruz seems to think he was only elected to repeal ACA.

72 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:46:09am
73 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:47:06am

re: #72 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Alexander Litvinenko could not be reached for comment.

74 Carlos Danger  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:47:14am

Wow, check out the lede on this Fox News article:

Christian bakery closes after LGBT threats, protests

A family-owned Christian bakery, under investigation for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a lesbian couple, has been forced to close its doors after a vicious boycott by militant homosexual activists.

FFS. People actually believe this.

75 b.d.  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:47:17am

re: #45 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Charles can I change my vote to YES now that I know that Code Pink is back doing their shtick again?

76 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:47:18am

time for emergency cuteness, perhaps?

brand new shiny bebe elephant

77 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:47:30am

re: #45 jaunte

[moonbat]We’re Still Relevant!![/moonbat]

78 Archangelus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:48:08am

re: #59 Charles Johnson

No problem, I made the change - but the link itself is usually considered enough credit, I think.

Thanks a lot! And that might be the case with US/European media, but I know that it’s a slightly different set of rules with Israeli media websites, so wanted to be sure I was doing things right… :)

79 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:48:16am

re: #73 Kragar

OFFS

80 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:48:55am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

I can’t see Ted F0cking Cruz voting for this or anything supported by O.

81 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:50:13am

re: #74 Carlos Danger

Wow, check out the lede on this Fox News article:

Christian bakery closes after LGBT threats, protests

FFS. People actually believe this.

Why the hell would you start a business and deliberately not cater to a fairly big group? If I’m a rival bakery, I’m baking their cake on discount and advertising my services to the LGBT community. But you’ve got to love the people who think bullying kids for being gay crying about a bakery taking some heat for being bigots.Would it be proper for them to refuse an interracial couple?

82 Carlos Danger  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:50:13am

Check out Alexander Lukashenko’s freedom ‘stache:

Image: lukashenko_190.jpg

83 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:50:49am

re: #80 Bulworth

I can’t see Ted F0cking Cruz voting for this or anything supported by O.

No, I don’t either but I thought the question was who will suggest that the rebels did the poisoning themselves.

84 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:50:57am

re: #72 Pavlovian Hive Mind

85 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:51:07am

Rios: Military’s ‘Homosexual Takeover’ And Women In Navy Will Undermine Effectiveness Of Syrian Strike

So, only homosexuals were brutal enough to set up the Third Reich which plunged the world into its second world war, but them being in the US Navy means we couldn’t effectively fight Syria, because of women?

Wingnuts make my puzzler hurt.

86 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:51:08am

re: #82 Carlos Danger

Check out Alexander Lukashenko’s freedom ‘stache:

Image: lukashenko_190.jpg

God Bless Belarus.//

87 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:51:57am

A thought occurred in light of the Drudge tweets…

Could guys like the Kochs be thinking that if they discredit both parties, they could package a new party effectively enough to pull in the new Wingnut/Moonbat convergence and give the Big Two a run for their money?

There is certainly no shortage of dim, gullible people out there. And the Kochs already successfully sold those people on the Tea Party.

All they have to do is cast sufficient doubt on both parties - and they’ve got guys like Drudge on the payroll to do that.

88 b.d.  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:52:22am

re: #84 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Drudge should go over to Moscow and interview him.

89 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:52:26am

re: #85 Kragar

Rios: Military’s ‘Homosexual Takeover’ And Women In Navy Will Undermine Effectiveness Of Syrian Strike

So, only homosexuals were brutal enough to set up the Third Reich which plunged the world into its second world war, but them being in the US Navy means we couldn’t effectively fight Syria, because of women?

Wingnuts make my puzzler hurt.

I guess Sandy has never heard of the WAVES. What a dumbass.

90 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:52:38am

Assange is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for attention these days.

Swedish police investigate missing WikiLeaks suitcase; founder Assange suspects govt theft

washingtonpost.com

“The move comes a day before President Barack Obama visits Sweden.

“The suspected seizure or theft occurred at a time of intense attempts by the U.S. to stop WikiLeaks’ publications of 2010,” Assange said and suggested that Swedish authorities “seek explanations” from members of Obama’s delegation during their visit.”

The unmitigated gall. Don’t airlines lose luggage all the time? Cheeeez.

91 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:53:06am

re: #85 Kragar

Yeah it’s a genuine brain crasher with these folks

92 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:54:20am

“Vetted, moderate opposition”? He keeps repeating that line, but I’m not sure he could name who it is he’s talking about.

93 Mattand  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:54:48am

re: #87 makeitstop

A thought occurred in light of the Drudge tweets…

Could guys like the Kochs be thinking that if they discredit both parties, they could package a new party effectively enough to pull in the new Wingnut/Moonbat convergence and give the Big Two a run for their money?

There is certainly no shortage of dim, gullible people out there. And the Kochs already successfully sold those people on the Tea Party.

All they have to do is cast sufficient doubt on both parties - and they’ve got guys like Drudge on the payroll to do that.

My first reaction is that it’s a little tinfoil hat-ish, but as you point out, the Tea Bag/Dudebro convergence has been a sight to behold.

I was always doubtful of the Tea Baggers breaking off from the GOP. They’re like squatters who’ve taken over a really nice mansion; they’ve got no reason to leave. However, the dudebros give them more numbers.

94 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:54:57am

re: #81 HappyWarrior

Why the hell would you start a business and deliberately not cater to a fairly big group? If I’m a rival bakery, I’m baking their cake on discount and advertising my services to the LGBT community. But you’ve got to love the people who think bullying kids for being gay crying about a bakery taking some heat for being bigots.Would it be proper for them to refuse an interracial couple?

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

95 jaunte  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:55:11am
96 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:55:14am

re: #85 Kragar

Rios: Military’s ‘Homosexual Takeover’ And Women In Navy Will Undermine Effectiveness Of Syrian Strike

So, only homosexuals were brutal enough to set up the Third Reich which plunged the world into its second world war, but them being in the US Navy means we couldn’t effectively fight Syria, because of women?

Wingnuts make my puzzler hurt.

Stop dividing by zero!

97 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:55:40am

re: #87 makeitstop

A thought occurred in light of the Drudge tweets…

Could guys like the Kochs be thinking that if they discredit both parties, they could package a new party effectively enough to pull in the new Wingnut/Moonbat convergence and give the Big Two a run for their money?

There is certainly no shortage of dim, gullible people out there. And the Kochs already successfully sold those people on the Tea Party.

All they have to do is cast sufficient doubt on both parties - and they’ve got guys like Drudge on the payroll to do that.

Been there, done that, Ross Perot cost GOP the 1992 election.

98 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:55:46am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

Lime

99 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:56:08am

re: #91 Bulworth

Yeah it’s a genuine brain crasher with these folks

It’s all so confusing. In one breath, they say gay men are weak and effeminate and thus can’t be trusted to serve in the U.S military and then in another we’re hearing about how homosexuality was why the Nazis rose to power. I can’t believe I live in the same century as these people. They are so unbelievably backwards in how they view our world. It’s honestly scary to me.

100 Mattand  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:56:13am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

Soylent Green.

101 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:56:25am

re: #22 lawhawk

There are unintended consequences to inaction as well.

I do not think enough thought is given to this by the U.S. public.

Great post!

102 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:56:32am

re: #98 Kragar

Lime

Arugula!

103 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:56:34am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

Pistachios

104 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:57:00am

re: #98 Kragar

Lime

Lime is a flavor but not really a coloring agent. Key Lime Pie is not green.

105 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:57:12am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

Lime would be good.

106 jaunte  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:57:32am
107 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:57:45am

re: #104 Vicious Babushka

Lime is a flavor but not really a coloring agent. Key Lime Pie is not green.

Isn’t there a lime green dye? I’ve never baked much before though so I’ll defer to your knowledge on the issue.

108 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:58:06am

re: #87 makeitstop

A thought occurred in light of the Drudge tweets…

Could guys like the Kochs be thinking that if they discredit both parties, they could package a new party effectively enough to pull in the new Wingnut/Moonbat convergence and give the Big Two a run for their money?

There is certainly no shortage of dim, gullible people out there. And the Kochs already successfully sold those people on the Tea Party.

All they have to do is cast sufficient doubt on both parties - and they’ve got guys like Drudge on the payroll to do that.

With money like that, you can have plans for any contingency. This gives you an advantage when things are in flux. Therefore, they benefit when shit is stirred, no matter who is holding the spoon or which way they’re stirring. That’s why they seem to be anarchists.

109 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:58:49am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

Violet leaves

110 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:58:58am

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

Spirulina!

111 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:59:26am

re: #107 HappyWarrior

Isn’t there a lime green dye? I’ve never baked much before though so I’ll defer to your knowledge on the issue.

You can get a dye in any color but I’m talking about natural coloring agents. Lime peel by itself is not much of a coloring agent.

112 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 11:59:49am

re: #109 Backwoods_Sleuth

Violet leaves

That’s interesting, explain more.

113 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:00:51pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

Spirulina!

Soylent Green!

114 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:00:55pm

re: #93 Mattand

My first reaction is that it’s a little tinfoil hat-ish, but as you point out, the Tea Bag/Dudebro convergence has been a sight to behold.

Yeah, I had that thought while typing. But I’m seeing rhetoric around the webz lately that, while still directing most of their hate at Obama, has a distinct whiff of ‘Fuck all these guys’ to it.

I was always doubtful of the Tea Baggers breaking off from the GOP. They’re like squatters who’ve taken over a really nice mansion; they’ve got no reason to leave. However, the dudebros give them more numbers.

Rand Paul, no doubt, is ready for his closeup, Mr. DeMille.

115 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:01:01pm

re: #111 Vicious Babushka

You can get a dye in any color but I’m talking about natural coloring agents. Lime peel by itself is not much of a coloring agent.

Ahh I see.

116 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:01:18pm

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

Red + Blue = Green

Or you could go with mint. Or try these.

117 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:02:11pm

re: #116 lawhawk

Red + Blue = Green

lol

Blue + Yellow = Green

118 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:02:27pm

re: #116 lawhawk

Red + Blue = Green

That would be in photography, Red + Blue in pigment = Purple.

119 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:03:18pm

re: #101 ObserverArt

Unfortunately, many Americans still think like this:

Dr. Seuss WWII cartoon.

120 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:03:26pm

re: #112 Vicious Babushka

That’s interesting, explain more.

I remember a friend, many many years ago, made an artisan violet bread.
It looked normal, nicely brown on the outside, but sliced it was a very nice shade of green.
He ran the leaves through a food processor to make a paste.
Google “violet leaf bread”, there are recipes…most look like a sweetbread like zucchini bread.

121 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:03:29pm

I have to vote undecided as of now. Too damn many actors in the region that want to disrupt things. I will need to have some information from the ground and a piece of it will be the UN report.

122 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:03:43pm

So how long before we find out that who’s really behind this push? DEMONS!

123 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:03:57pm

Kerry’s talking right now to the Senate - hair and skin samples from Syria tested positive for sarin gas.

124 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:04:55pm

re: #88 b.d.

Drudge should go over to Moscow and interview him.

I replied in the side bar article wondering when Drudge was packing for Moscow and to please take Limbaugh, Beck and Jones with him.

125 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:05:00pm

How to make natural green food coloring.

Spinach is the #1 recommendation.

126 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:05:33pm

Zucchini peel might work for cake.

127 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:06:48pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

How to make natural green food coloring.

Spinach is the #1 recommendation.

oooh…I just googled “spinach cake”.
Must. Try. This!

128 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:08:24pm

re: #72 Pavlovian Hive Mind

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video

129 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:08:40pm

DERP

130 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:09:33pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

How to make natural green food coloring.

Spinach is the #1 recommendation.

A Turkish recipe for spinach cake:
Ispanakli Kek

ETA: It’s bright green!

131 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:10:11pm

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

What an asshole.

132 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:10:45pm

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

That seems to be a logical, well thought out position. Not.

133 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:11:00pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

A Turkish recipe for spinach cake:
Ispanakli Kek

ETA: It’s bright green!

Oh man that looks good. Spinach doesn’t get enough love.

134 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:12:13pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

A Turkish recipe for spinach cake:
Ispanakli Kek

Cool!

Now I know how to bake a Rainbow Cake, if anybody wants one. :)

135 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:12:25pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

I see an epidemic of spinach cake taking over LGF households.

136 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:13:09pm

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

Oh, go eat a bag of dicks, Erick.

137 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:13:46pm

GET HIM TO THE HAGUE starring Glenn Greenwald and Bashar Al-Assad.

138 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:14:00pm

re: #133 HappyWarrior

Oh man that looks good. Spinach doesn’t get enough love.

I love the googles….

139 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:14:05pm

re: #126 Vicious Babushka

Zucchini peel might work for cake.

Lime Zest

Image: Lime_zest.jpg

140 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:14:52pm

I put undecided, because my support would require specific details as to what form the action would take.

There are a grand total of zero good options. No one in this fight can be labeled “the good guys”. The only moderate rebel faction has been marginalized and the civil war has turned into a giant sectarian jihadi clusterf***.

Use of chemical weapons must not go unpunished. The world has long since collectively decided that chemical weapons are a no-no. Letting the Assad regime get away with it sets a really bad precedent and will likely embolden other rogue or authoritarian regimes to try to get away with it as well.

If the US gets involved in any fashion, how if at all, will Russia, China, and Iran react? I honestly don’t believe this is worth starting a world war over.

So damned if you do, damned if you don’t. After as much thought on the subject as I can stomach, I guess I would only support targeted strikes on known chemical weapons storage installations or deployed launchers. After that, let the war settle itself. I do not, in any way shape or form, support arming the rebel factions in this conflict.

If Assad loses but lives we can haul him and/or whoever ordered the use of chemical weapons into a war crimes court. If Assad loses and is killed, there’s nothing to be done. If he wins, issue an arrest warrant for war crimes (which would likely be symbolic and meaningless), and pile on UN sanctions.

This isn’t ideal but it ends the regime’s ability to use chemical weapons for the duration of this conflict, and defending international law on this subject is our only real “interest”.

Also on another related note. Outside of LGF, and a few bloggers and pundits, I do not know a single person who supports taking any military action in Syria at all. People on both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between from wingnuts to the moderates to the moonbats. None of them support it (I’m talking about a couple hundred people here too.)

If that is any indicator of the wider US population, any action is going to be *REALLY* unpopular and have potentially serious political consequences here at home.

141 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:15:20pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

So we should invade to precipitate that?//

142 chadu  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:15:25pm

re: #56 Robert O.

I voted no: (snip)

I voted yes, but all your points are excellent, and worthy of further discussion.

143 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:18:12pm

Kerry gives a nice mention of the protestors being a part of the process as he was when he protested as a 27 year old. Then he thanks our government for going through these types of hearings so that the American people are being heard.

144 blueraven  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:18:22pm

re: #94 Vicious Babushka

I love baking (as everyone here well knows) and I would totally bake a Gay Wedding Cake, except the idea of using artificial food colorings to create a “rainbow” layer cake is kind of gross.

How would you color a “rainbow” cake using only natural colors?

RED=beets
ORANGE=carrots
YELLOW=saffron
GREEN=spinach
BLUE=blueberries
INDIGO=grapes
VIOLET=blackberries

Except I just can’t see spinach-flavored cake layer, so what else can you use for green?

edamame (soybean)

145 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:19:01pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

I somehow get the feeling that Greenwald would have been one of those “America First-ers” before WWII.

He certainly loves advocating for blood-soaked monsters.

146 jaunte  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:19:11pm
147 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:19:12pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

I’m sure Bashar Assad will respond appropriately to the person serving him with the ICC arrest warrant.

Perhaps Mr. Greenwald would like to deliver it to him?

148 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:20:11pm

Protester: “Nobody wants this war.”

War? Come on now.

Assad is waging war against the Syrian people to retain power. So you want no action whatsoever? What kind of peace-monger are you?

149 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:20:15pm
150 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:20:55pm
151 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:22:24pm

re: #148 Justanotherhuman

Protester: “Nobody wants this war.”

War? Come on now.

Assad is waging war against the Syrian people to retain power. So you want no action whatsoever? What kind of peace-monger are you?

If people just did exactly what Assad wanted, he wouldn’t be forced to wage war against them.
///

152 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:23:07pm

re: #57 lawhawk

You would not secure those materials with limited strikes. If you want the keys to the igloos, it’s a lot of boots on the ground.

153 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:23:36pm

With her mouth shut, Susan Benjamin can pass for a normal person.

154 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:23:41pm

re: #150 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

And there is always that one guard who lets them all by and then after a minute puts it all together and says “Hey….”

155 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:23:42pm

re: #151 Kragar

If people just did exactly what Assad wanted, he wouldn’t be forced to wage war against them.
///

“Look what you made me do!!”

156 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:23:42pm

re: #138 Backwoods_Sleuth

I love the googles….

Spinach is an excellent blood thinner.

I learned from an older brother when he had a small clotting problem, that he was not to eat spinach while on his blood thinner meds.

I go through bags of Baby Spinach leaves as that and Romain make up the base greens in my salads which I eat at least one a day.

Only problem with Spinach is trying to keep it for any period of time. It can turn to glop pretty quick. Anyone know a good way to try and preserve as best as possible? I’ve tried everything.

157 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:24:29pm

re: #155 GeneJockey

“Look what you made me do!!”

“Why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself?”

158 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:25:57pm

re: #156 ObserverArt

An excellent blood thinner.

I learned from an older brother when he had a small clotting problem, that he was not to eat spinach while on his blood thinner meds.

I go through bags of Baby Spinach leaves as that and Romain make up the base greens in my salads which I eat at least one a day.

Only problem with Spinach is trying to keep it for any period of time. It can turn to glop pretty quick. Anyone know a good way to try and preserve as best as possible? I’ve tried everything.

I have a large glass bowl w/a plastic cover (Anchor) that I put my spinach in (I love using spinach as a salad base) and it stays fresh for days. If I leave it in the bag and just tie it, it starts deteriorating. Gotta keep air from it.

159 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:26:17pm

re: #157 Kragar

“Why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself?”

I actually knew a guy who said that whatever we did to detainees wasn’t torture, because they could end it any time by telling their interrogators what they wanted.

I was floored.

160 Archangelus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:26:39pm

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

House Facepalm

161 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:26:46pm

re: #156 ObserverArt

Spinach is an excellent blood thinner.

I learned from an older brother when he had a small clotting problem, that he was not to eat spinach while on his blood thinner meds.

I go through bags of Baby Spinach leaves as that and Romain make up the base greens in my salads which I eat at least one a day.

Only problem with Spinach is trying to keep it for any period of time. It can turn to glop pretty quick. Anyone know a good way to try and preserve as best as possible? I’ve tried everything.

Freezing is the only way I know. But that would be for future use in smoothies or in cooking, not “fresh” as for salads.

162 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:26:54pm

re: #149 Charles Johnson

I forgot that all military activities must be approved by Code Pink first. /

163 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:27:07pm

re: #2 Justanotherhuman

Rand Paul: “I probably won’t vote for any resolution.”

Weenie.

No, but he will try to make it all about him when he grandstands on the Senate floor in a filibuster attempt.

164 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:27:42pm

re: #161 Backwoods_Sleuth

Freezing is the only way I know. But that would be for future use in smoothies or in cooking, not “fresh” as for salads.

Yeah. If you’re gonna use frozen spinach in a salad, you might as well just use the glop!
///

165 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:27:48pm

re: #153 Vicious Babushka

With her mouth shut, Susan Benjamin can pass for a normal person.

Yeah, but don’t they know what she looks like by now? She wasn’t exactly wearing a disguise.

I have to wonder if they’re deliberately not barring her, because they know she’s a nut and will act out, but she’s harmless enough and gives Kerry a chance to say something respectful of protesters.

166 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:28:22pm

Washington Post Actually Runs Piece Arguing Teachers Shouldn’t Be Jailed For Sex With Underage Students

After Montana Judge Todd Baugh sentenced a 49 year-old school teacher to just 30 days in prison for the statutory rape of a 14 year-old student — a student who subsequently committed suicide — most people who learned of the story reacted in outrage. The editors of the Washington Post’s opinion page, by contrast, decided to respond to this incident by publishing a piece arguing that the teacher’s actions shouldn’t even be a crime — nor should nearly any of what the piece labels as “consensual sexual activity between teachers and students.”

A major thrust of the author’s argument (which we will not link to out of concern that the Washington Post chose to run this piece in a misguided effort to drive traffic to its webpage) is that the very existence of sex between teachers and students suggests that such sex should not be criminalized.

OFFS

167 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:28:23pm

re: #158 Justanotherhuman

I have a large glass bowl w/a plastic cover (Anchor) that I put my spinach in (I love using spinach as a salad base) and it stays fresh for days. If I leave it in the bag and just tie it, it starts deteriorating. Gotta keep air from it.

Thanks. I put mine in a plastic snap type container as soon as possible. Glass my be better as some plastics can breath a bit. I’ve also noticed that you have to keep it as dry as possible too. If it comes too wet in the bag you already are in a losing battle.

168 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:28:31pm

re: #159 GeneJockey

I actually knew a guy who said that whatever we did to detainees wasn’t torture, because they could end it any time by telling their interrogators what they wanted.

I was floored.

So when Torquemada was putting thumbscrews on Jewish prisoners…hey it wasn’t torture! They could just tell him what he wanted to hear at any time!

169 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:29:24pm

re: #165 Charles Johnson

Yeah, but don’t they know what she looks like by now? She wasn’t exactly wearing a disguise.

I have to wonder if they’re deliberately not barring her, because they know she’s a nut and will act out, but she’s harmless enough and gives Kerry a chance to say something respectful of protesters.

Better the derpil you know…

170 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:30:13pm

re: #168 celticdragon

So when Torquemada was putting thumbscrews on Jewish prisoners…hey it wasn’t torture! They could just tell him what he wanted to hear at any time!

Might as well. You couldn’t Torquemada anything.

171 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:30:27pm

re: #166 Kragar

Washington Post Actually Runs Piece Arguing Teachers Shouldn’t Be Jailed For Sex With Underage Students

“A major thrust of the author’s argument (which we will not link to out of concern that the Washington Post chose to run this piece in a misguided effort to drive traffic to its webpage) is that the very existence of sex between teachers and students suggests that such sex should not be criminalized.”

OFFS

That’s like saying that the very existence of pederasty means it shouldn’t be criminal. Who’s the author, the head of NAMBLA?

172 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:30:51pm

re: #168 celticdragon

So when Torquemada was putting thumbscrews on Jewish prisoners…hey it wasn’t torture! They could just tell him what he wanted to hear at any time!

SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO?!

Youtube Video

173 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:30:53pm

re: #10 lawhawk

There’s going to be no golden parachute route for him. No one is going to give him a one-way ticket to a island hideaway in exile. He’s going to remain in power or die trying.

I wouldn’t bet on it. Saudi Arabia has a long history of hiding dictators when the price is right.

174 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:31:52pm

Must get back to work. I don’t know why no one has invented a way to do the yard work or clean the kitchen while also chatting on here.
BBL

175 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:32:35pm

re: #171 GeneJockey

That’s like saying that the very existence of pederasty means it shouldn’t be criminal. Who’s the author, the head of NAMBLA?

Fires exist, so arson should be legal. People die, so murder should be legal.

Nice work WaPo. Stellar product you have there.

176 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:33:00pm

re: #171 GeneJockey

That’s like saying that the very existence of pederasty means it shouldn’t be criminal. Who’s the author, the head of NAMBLA?

Some gal who said it wasn’t that uncommon when she was in school in the 60’s anddontchaknow that the girls she knew that were screwing with the male teachers all turned out okay…so it makes everything okay.

177 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:33:44pm

re: #9 Dr. Matt

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I’m glad I’m not the president…Enough said.

Agreed. That’s why I voted Undecided.

I think we need to do something. Chemical weapons attacks should be answered. But there are no good options in Syria and few, if any, factions that we actually like. It’s definitely not a decision I could make.

178 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:34:21pm

Meanwhile, over here among gamers, we have a different shitstorm spinning up.

179 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:36:53pm

re: #177 Lidane

Agreed. That’s why I voted Undecided.

I think we need to do something. Chemical weapons attacks should be answered. But there are no good options in Syria and few, if any, factions that we actually like. It’s definitely not a decision I could make.

The strikes would have to be limited, based on sound intelligence and have the effect of making it less likely that such weapons will be used again.

I would not want to have to make those decisions, but neither would I want to be living in Syria…

180 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:41:35pm

re: #176 celticdragon

Some gal who said it wasn’t that uncommon when she was in school in the 60’s anddontchaknow that the girls she knew that were screwing with the male teachers all turned out okay…so it makes everything okay.

Anecdotal “evidence” doesn’t cut it.

181 jaunte  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:42:14pm

Kerry to Corker: reason we haven’t intervened in previous 2 years will have to wait for classified session.

182 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:42:33pm
183 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:42:51pm

re: #149 Charles Johnson


I’d like to see the longer, book-length even, version of that. Kerry’s thoughts, not Scahill’s.

Somebody in town is showing Scahill’s movies as a fundraiser. I let ‘em put up a poster in my window, thought about it for a day, and took it down.

184 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:42:57pm

re: #179 Sol Berdinowitz

The strikes would have to be limited, based on sound intelligence and have the effect of making it less likely that such weapons will be used again.

I would not want to have to make those decisions, but neither would I want to be living in Syria…

Every war plan ever executed started as ‘limited’.
Sitting here we have no way to evaluate the quality of the intel.
Assad is as likely to go for broke if he’s cornered.

185 b.d.  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:44:24pm

Note to all nutjobs: If the U.S.A. were a police state then you wouldn’t have seen Medea Benjamin today.

(((Unless you are a really real nutjob who think that she is a plant)))

186 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:44:24pm

re: #182 Charles Johnson

Are they heading to the dunes of the cape?

187 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:45:11pm

re: #185 b.d.

Note to all nutjobs: If the U.S.A. were a police state then you wouldn’t have seen Medea Benjamin today.

(((Unless you are a really real nutjob who think that she is a plant)))

More of a tuber than a plant.

188 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:45:30pm

Yep, that’s right, he didn’t say flat out never, under no circumstances, ever in this life or any other.

I swear, these people. They live in a weird bubble of privilege and extremist ideology, and act like they’re morally superior to the rest of the world.

189 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:45:51pm

“This authorization is a limited action…” for WMD in Syria only.

“This is not the timer for armchair isolationism.”

“There will not be boots on the ground in respect to a civil war.”

—Kerry

190 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:46:07pm

re: #187 Kragar

More of a tuber than a plant.

So that’s the root of her problem?

191 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:47:18pm

OT but this just kills me:

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky cover of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt,” which earned nonstop cheers from the crowd.

Pro tip: If you’re going to review a concert, it usually helps to know the band’s music. WTF.

192 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:47:45pm

I wish it could be limited to one cruise missile that has a face recognition feature and it flies about until it sees Assad and takes him out. I would like those limits.

Do we have that yet?

Would it surprise anyone if some day someone will?

193 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:48:49pm

re: #188 Charles Johnson

I swear, these people. They live in a weird bubble of privilege and extremist ideology, and act like they’re morally superior to the rest of the world.

Jeremy Scahill is ‘known as’ a ‘one-man truth squad’, who says the US needs to take a humility pill.

194 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:49:07pm

re: #176 celticdragon

Some gal who said it wasn’t that uncommon when she was in school in the 60’s anddontchaknow that the girls she knew that were screwing with the male teachers all turned out okay…so it makes everything okay.

Oh, well, that’s different. It must be okay, then, for authority figures to abuse that authority to seduce young, vulnerable people.

Tell the Catholic Church “Never mind” about the whole Pedophile Priest thing.
//

195 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:49:11pm

re: #189 Justanotherhuman

“This authorization is a limited action…” for WMD in Syria only.

“This is not the timer for armchair isolationism.”

“There will not be boots on the ground in respect to a civil war.”

—Kerry

Plastic wording—“It’s not a civil war, it’s the War of Alawite Aggression”.

196 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:49:12pm

re: #188 Charles Johnson

They are so very similar to the America First-ers before WWII.

197 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:49:15pm

re: #191 Lidane

OT but this just kills me:

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky cover of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt,” which earned nonstop cheers from the crowd.

Pro tip: If you’re going to review a concert, it usually helps to know the band’s music. WTF.

LOL.

198 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:49:18pm

re: #190 Eventual Carrion

So that’s the root of her problem?

The eyes have it.

199 Amory Blaine  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:50:32pm

People are being misinformed that US strikes are to intervene in the civil war rather than a response to the illegal use of WMDS.

200 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:50:36pm

re: #191 Lidane

OT but this just kills me:

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky cover of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt,” which earned nonstop cheers from the crowd.

Pro tip: If you’re going to review a concert, it usually helps to know the band’s music. WTF.

There were posts about that about two doors down earlier. Things are flying fast today.

201 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:51:22pm
202 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:51:22pm

I’m a fan of Bob Seger’s cover of Metallica’s “Turn the Page”.
///

203 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:52:05pm

re: #191 Lidane

OT but this just kills me:

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky cover of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt,” which earned nonstop cheers from the crowd.

Pro tip: If you’re going to review a concert, it usually helps to know the band’s music. WTF.

His standards of music jourtnalism are about on par with the industry overall. And it is nothing that a nine-second google search would not uncover.

I remember a similar interview mentioning how John Fogerty “covered” Status Quo’s “Rockin’ All Over the World”…save for the fact that Fogerty wrote it and SQ covered it…

204 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:52:23pm

re: #199 Amory Blaine

People are being misinformed that US strikes are to intervene in the civil war rather than a response to the illegal use of WMDS.

OR, they’re jumping to the conclusion that the illegal use of WMDs is an excuse to intervene in the civil war, as if Obama really wants to do that.

205 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:53:57pm

re: #188 Charles Johnson

No boots on the ground in respect to the civil war. IOW, not going to take sides. But it does sound like he’s allowing for troops to secure/eliminate chemical/biological weapons sites. We’re talking about 1,000 tons* (more or less depending on source, Israel estimates higher, others lower) of chemical weapons, spread out over multiple sites.

Snatching them to get them out of the country for dismantling - at say Johnson Atoll, isn’t going to be easy, and will require significant amounts of security. It wont be a small mission either, due to the need to provide security and considering threats from all sides.

206 Robert O.  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:54:34pm

Here are results from the Washington Post -ABC poll (I have seen very similar results in other polls):

washingtonpost.com

What is interesting is that for the first time, there is no difference between the opinion of a Democrat and a Republican on this one. Both self-identified Democrats and Republicans oppose military strikes by an identical margin of 12%. The margin increases significantly to 36% for self-identified independents.

This is perhaps the one issue which does not fall neatly into the left-right dichotomy. As I said further above, I am personally opposed to military strikes, but nonetheless, I can understand why some people think the US need to act. Again, none of this fit nicely into generic political categories.

207 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:55:51pm

re: #205 lawhawk

No boots on the ground in respect to the civil war. IOW, not going to take sides. But it does sound like he’s allowing for troops to secure/eliminate chemical/biological weapons sites. We’re talking about 1,000 tons* (more or less depending on source, Israel estimates higher, others lower) of chemical weapons, spread out over multiple sites.

Snatching them to get them out of the country for dismantling - at say Johnson Atoll, isn’t going to be easy, and will require significant amounts of security. It wont be a small mission either, due to the need to provide security and considering threats from all sides.

Depends on whether the tonnage is net filler/explosive weight or completed rounds. Either way we have to own the place for some months to do that.

208 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:57:25pm

re: #204 GeneJockey

OR, they’re jumping to the conclusion that the illegal use of WMDs is an excuse to intervene in the civil war, as if Obama really wants to do that.

Worse, many have reached the conclusion that they know something when they’ve only been told something.

209 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:57:51pm

re: #203 Sol Berdinowitz

I just love the Joy Division’s Dead Souls cover of the NIN classic.

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

Oh wait…. Joy Division wrote it, NIN made its version for The Crow soundtrack. And the NIN version is quite good. Sucks that this was Brandon Lee’s final movie though.

210 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:58:51pm

re: #205 lawhawk

I’m cautiously in favor of a limited attack to take out some of Assad’s ability to use chemical weapons, but probably not ever gonna be down with an invasion. We’ll see if it comes to that.

211 allegro  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 12:59:08pm

re: #206 Robert O.

Here are results from the Washington Post -ABC poll (I have seen very similar results in other polls):

washingtonpost.com

What is interesting is that for the first time, there is no difference between the opinion of a Democrat and a Republican on this one. Both self-identified Democrats and Republicans oppose military strikes by a 12% margin. The margin increases significantly to 36% for self-identified independents.

I thought about that a couple of days ago. Looks like Obama fulfilled his promise to unite the parties after all.

212 danarchy  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:02:36pm

re: #191 Lidane

OT but this just kills me:

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky cover of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt,” which earned nonstop cheers from the crowd.

Pro tip: If you’re going to review a concert, it usually helps to know the band’s music. WTF.

Looks like someone pointed it out to them unless NPR fixed it for them.

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky version of “Hurt,” which Johnny Cash famously covered.

I hate when they fix stories like that with no sign of the correction, just shoving it down the memory hole.

213 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:02:43pm

Greatest Cover Ever:

Ronnie James Dio covering Rod Stewart

Youtube Video

214 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:03:26pm
215 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:03:27pm

re: #203 Sol Berdinowitz

His standards of music jourtnalism are about on par with the industry overall. And it is nothing that a nine-second google search would not uncover.

I remember a similar interview mentioning how John Fogerty “covered” Status Quo’s “Rockin’ All Over the World”…save for the fact that Fogerty wrote it and SQ covered it…

I keep waiting for some hipster music reporter to ask Springsteen why he recorded a cover of “Blinded by the Light”. Heh.

216 Shockingly, Pathetically Low  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:03:55pm

Undecided, because there are so many forms “limited military action” can take, but I would also vote to support the president’s decision on such action. We can always impeach him later///.

217 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:06:10pm

Now, as far as worst covers ever, I would have to say the entire sound track for the Bee Gee’s version of “Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.”

218 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:06:33pm

re: #210 Charles Johnson

It has been said that blowing up a bunker with chemical warheads inside could be disastrous. I’s certainly support hitting the very units that did the attack, as well as some of their command structure. Whatever we do it needs to hurt Assad personally as a commander.

“Deter, disrupt, & reduce capacity”.

Frankly I like the recent Libya model. Support the rebels until Assad falls. We carry the air and drone responsibilities, and Syrians do the nation building/rebuilding. And right, no troops apart from maybe advisers/Spec ops.

219 Dr. Matt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:07:10pm

re: #191 Lidane

OT but this just kills me:

NIN closed the night with a slow and smoky cover of Johnny Cash’s “Hurt,” which earned nonstop cheers from the crowd.

Pro tip: If you’re going to review a concert, it usually helps to know the band’s music. WTF.

My dad would agree with the headline.

220 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:07:39pm

re: #217 Kragar

Now, as far as worst covers ever, I would have to say the entire sound track for the Bee Gee’s version of “Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.”

You may not have heard Dubstep Pink Floyd. *shudder*

221 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:08:43pm

re: #218 Political Atheist

It has been said that blowing up a bunker with chemical warheads inside could be disastrous. I’s certainly support hitting the very units that did the attack, as well as some of their command structure. Whatever we do it needs to hurt Assad personally as a commander.

“Deter, disrupt, & reduce capacity”.

Frankly I like the recent Libya model. Support the rebels until Assad falls. We carry the air and drone responsibilities, and Syrians do the nation building/rebuilding. And right, no troops apart from maybe advisers/Spec ops.

That’s realistic, but has its own risks. of course, then we could have

ALEPPO !!1!

222 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:08:47pm

re: #220 Political Atheist

You may not have heard Dubstep Pink Floyd. *shudder*

Or reggae Led Zeppelin. I will NEVER unhear that. Ever.

223 SchadenBoner  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:08:48pm

I voted no.

Let’s assume that Assad launched the attacks and it isn’t one faction of rebels fragging another faction. Even then, I don’t see where our percentage is in inserting ourselves in another ethnic civil war in the Middle East.

It isn’t a war for democracy (ah ha ha ha): there is no significant liberal faction here, and certainly not one large enough to beat both the regime and the other opposition factions. Even if they did (doubtless with our help), the faction couldn’t hope to rule Syria. The choices appear to be the Iranian-aligned regime or the Saudi-aligned opposition. The rise of either of these sides means nothing except ethnic cleansing of the other side.

This isn’t a war for national self-determination: I might support an intervention if there were some plan for a peacekeeping/peacemaking force to separate the sides until some sort of negotiated (probably ethnic) split could be effected, but there is nothing like that on the table.

There does not appear to be any sort of long-term planning: I’ve heard nothing about what our intervention looks like, no mention of what Syria looks like after the civil war is over, no mention of how we avoid Syria Nouveau turning into Afghanistan-West with a Syrian Taliban (opulently funded by Saudi and Emirati paymasters) raining nerve gas on Israel rather than Hezbollah lobbing missiles from Lebanon.

Historical antecedents are a poor map for future action: this is not Libya ‘12 (where the opposition was reasonably unified and well-organized), this is not Munich ‘38 (where there was state-level aggression masterminded by a megalomaniac: Assad may be many things but he is not Hitler), this is not Bosnia ‘91 (where multiple sub-states along ethnic lines emerged against a former central government). If I had to, I’d say this is Iraq ‘02 which makes us all Cheney.

I also assume that surgical strikes are the thin edge of the wedge. Once we eliminate the chemical weapons or at least “once we eliminate some of the regime’s chemical weapons” because I doubt that we’ll be knocking out chemicals held by the rebels or that we’ll be able to eliminate all of the regime’s) there will be another thing (probably along the lines of “well, we’ve eliminated the chemical weapons but the regime’s scuds are still out there!”) and another thing (probably along the lines of “we cannot allow our brave allies in the Syrian Opposition to be defeated”) until we’re the rebel’s air force. This is all without “boots on the ground” but without boots on the ground there’s no endgame that’s even remotely better/distinguishable from anarchy.

This is lunacy.

224 Dr. Matt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:09:57pm

re: #220 Political Atheist

You may not have heard Dubstep Pink Floyd. *shudder*

Eddie et al. did an amazing cover of Pink Floyd’s ‘Mother’ at Wrigley last month (and I was in attendance).

Youtube Video

225 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:10:04pm

re: #202 Kragar

I’m a fan of Bob Seger’s cover of Metallica’s “Turn the Page”.
///

Here’s an oldie…The Beatles doing a cover of Spooky Tooth’s “I Am The Walrus.”

And if never heard…a good listen if for just the haunting choir and pace of the song.

Youtube Video

226 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:10:37pm

There was a girl at work telling us how the song “Follow me” was her and her husband’s wedding song. I asked if she realized its about a guy who is trying to convince a woman to cheat on her husband. The look on her face was priceless.

227 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:11:36pm

re: #220 Political Atheist

You may not have heard Dubstep Pink Floyd. *shudder*

How can it compete with Donald Pleasence singing “I want you”?

228 blueraven  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:11:54pm

re: #206 Robert O.

Here are results from the Washington Post -ABC poll (I have seen very similar results in other polls):

washingtonpost.com

What is interesting is that for the first time, there is no difference between the opinion of a Democrat and a Republican on this one. Both self-identified Democrats and Republicans oppose military strikes by an identical margin of 12%. The margin increases significantly to 36% for self-identified independents.

This is perhaps the one issue which does not fall neatly into the left-right dichotomy. As I said further above, I am personally opposed to military strikes, but nonetheless, I can understand why some people think the US need to act. Again, none of this fit nicely into generic political categories.

This is interesting

Broad opposition in the new poll contrasts with a December Post-ABC poll that found most Americans saying they would be supportive of U.S. action if Syria used chemical weapons. At that time, 63 percent supported U.S. military involvement when it was a hypothetical situation, while 30 percent were opposed.

229 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:12:04pm

re: #222 Lidane

Or reggae Led Zeppelin. I will NEVER unhear that. Ever.

You must mean Dread Zeppelin.

en.wikipedia.org

230 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:12:06pm

re: #223 SchadenBoner

So you believe inaction is preferable?

231 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:12:22pm

re: #210 Charles Johnson

I’m cautiously in favor of a limited attack to take out some of Assad’s ability to use chemical weapons, but probably not ever gonna be down with an invasion. We’ll see if it comes to that.

I’m ok with a limited strike against the facilities as well as narrowly directed hits for a limited period against the specific unit that fired the missiles. Military commanders across the world are watching this response, they need to see what happens when you cross that line.

232 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:12:23pm

re: #215 Lidane

I keep waiting for some hipster music reporter to ask Springsteen why he recorded a cover of “Blinded by the Light”. Heh.

I had the opportunity to interview Mannfred Mann (the person) when that single was a hit. He told me that Bruce was actually supposed to have been on the recording, singing the last verse - but his schedule did not allow it.

233 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:13:05pm

Here’s Rubio to now take the chickenhawk position.

234 blueraven  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:13:37pm

Rubio needs his bottle

Where is my water! waaaahh

235 brennant  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:13:50pm

Captain Thirsty to the rescue!

236 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:14:14pm

Anthrax covering Joe Jackson

Youtube Video

237 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:14:31pm

POTUS is going to look 97 years old by the end of his tenure.

238 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:14:37pm

re: #227 Kragar

How can it compete with Donald Pleasence singing “I want you”?

Image: tumblr_lre648tGwZ1qltk1go1_400.jpg

239 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:14:44pm

re: #222 Lidane

Or reggae Led Zeppelin. I will NEVER unhear that. Ever.

Dread Zeppelin? I thought they were brilliant - especially with the overweight Elvis impersonator as frontman. It sort of tied together the entire concept, in light of Robert Plant’s love for Elvis.

240 Amory Blaine  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:15:18pm

I love the bluegrass style remake of The Wall From Luther Wright and the Wrongs.

Youtube Video

241 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:15:20pm

re: #238 Decatur Deb

Image: tumblr_lre648tGwZ1qltk1go1_400.jpg

AH GOD, MY EYES!!!

242 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:15:38pm

I’m pretty sure you can get high just from listening to this song.

Youtube Video

No idea why there hasn’t been some weird acid house remix of it.

243 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:16:01pm

re: #225 ObserverArt

Here’s an oldie…The Beatles doing a cover of Spooky Tooth’s “I Am The Walrus.”

And if never heard…a good listen if for just the haunting choir and pace of the song.

[Embedded content]

I always loved that cover. Spooky was a great band.

245 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:16:33pm

re: #227 Kragar

How can it compete with Donald Pleasence singing “I want you”?

Hah! You win.

246 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:18:02pm

re: #242 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I’m pretty sure you can get high just from listening to this song.

[Embedded content]

No idea why there hasn’t been some weird acid house remix of it.

I’ve always liked this one.

Youtube Video

And owing to recent cinematic efforts, now when I think of the “Hurdy Gurdy man, singing songs of love”, I think of the Zodiac Killer.

Thanks, David Fincher.

247 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:18:03pm

I actually like this version better than the original

Youtube Video

248 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:18:28pm
249 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:19:12pm

AP probably thinks that Aaron Copeland ripped ELP’s Fanfare for the Common Man.

Youtube Video

[spoiler]ELP didn’t; Copeland wrote the piece early in his career. Side note is I met ELP backstage on their Black Moon tour. They were awesome and really down to earth guys. [/spoilers]

250 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:19:28pm

re: #240 Amory Blaine

I love the bluegrass style remake of The Wall From Luther Wright and the Wrongs.

[Embedded content]

That whole album is great!

251 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:19:36pm

re: #242 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Weird, likeable song—Aeschylus meets Dale Evans.

252 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:19:43pm

re: #245 Political Atheist

Hah! You win.

The first episode of “WKRP”, with Johnny Fever playing the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, covering “You’re Having My Baby”.

253 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:19:52pm

re: #246 Dr Lizardo

I’ve always liked this one.

[Embedded content]

And owing to recent cinematic efforts, now when I think of the “Hurdy Gurdy man, singing songs of love”, I think of the Zodiac Killer.

Thanks, David Fincher.

Obligatory Butthole Surfers version

Youtube Video

254 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:20:45pm

re: #249 lawhawk

Bach totally ripped Procol Harum.

255 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:21:03pm

re: #249 lawhawk

AP probably thinks that Aaron Copeland ripped ELP’s Fanfare for the Common Man.

[Embedded content]

[spoiler]ELP didn’t; Copeland wrote the piece early in his career. Side note is I met ELP backstage on their Black Moon tour. They were awesome and really down to earth guys. [/spoilers]

Greg Lake…one of the all time great voices. 21st Century Schizoid Man with King Crimson on.

Off topic: Looks like our little music discussion must be needed to cover the war fatigue!

256 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:21:30pm

re: #229 Dr Lizardo

You must mean Dread Zeppelin.

en.wikipedia.org

Nonono. I actually liked Dread Zeppelin. It was some other reggae cover I heard in the late 90’s when I was working in radio. It was terrible.

257 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:21:57pm

I still love ‘Rodeohead.’

Youtube Video

258 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:22:14pm

re: #240 Amory Blaine

I love the bluegrass style remake of The Wall From Luther Wright and the Wrongs.

[Embedded content]

I have that CD. I rather like it. Nice to play coming back from a concert for a mellow drive home.

259 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:22:22pm

re: #249 lawhawk

AP probably thinks that Aaron Copeland ripped ELP’s Fanfare for the Common Man.

Composers were always stealing from ELP. Friggin’ Janacek stole one of their songs for his Sinfonietta!!
//

260 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:23:43pm

The “no” votes are pulling ahead in our poll, by the way.

261 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:24:43pm

Where is the outrage of all those old artists that stole from the HipHoppers samples!!!

(James Brown, Mile Davis…all rip offs)

262 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:25:24pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

The “no” votes are pulling ahead in our poll, by the way.

I wonder how many are drive by spammers.

263 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:26:53pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

The “no” votes are pulling ahead in our poll, by the way.

I mentioned earlier, it would be nice to have another pole in a few days to see if there is any movement one way or another to compare. I think there will be changes as this goes. I expect Obama to give a good talk in a few days, and he can be powerful.

Or would that be Obomba? ///

264 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:27:15pm

re: #261 ObserverArt

Where is the outrage of all those old artists that stole from the HipHoppers samples!!!

(James Brown, Mile Davis…all rip offs)

Rodrigo stole Miles’ ‘Sketches’ intact. Like he’d ever been to Spain…

265 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:27:21pm

re: #72 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Oh go cry into your stupid hat Matt. God what a freaking asshat. Move to Russia and drool all over Putin then you freaking destructive jerk.

266 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:27:34pm

re: #253 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Obligatory Butthole Surfers version

[Embedded content]

I liked the Butthole Surfer’s cover of “Hurdy Gurdy Man”. A damned good cover.

267 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:27:40pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

Not particularly shocking nor surprising given that intervening may be the least bad option. There are no good options.

268 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:28:01pm

re: #256 Lidane

Nonono. I actually liked Dread Zeppelin. It was some other reggae cover I heard in the late 90’s when I was working in radio. It was terrible.

Ah, OK. I’m only familiar with Dread Zeppelin.

269 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:28:15pm
270 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:29:02pm
271 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:30:18pm

re: #228 blueraven

This is interesting

Broad opposition in the new poll contrasts with a December Post-ABC poll that found most Americans saying they would be supportive of U.S. action if Syria used chemical weapons. At that time, 63 percent supported U.S. military involvement when it was a hypothetical situation, while 30 percent were opposed.

Indeed. I wonder what all made the difference? The situation in Egypt? Realization that there are no Good Guys in Syria? Or the difference between a hypothetical “If/Then”, and being faced with the ‘If’ being true and having to deal with the ‘Then’?

272 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:30:26pm

re: #254 Decatur Deb

Bach totally ripped Procol Harum.

Or like some band no one ever heard of, The Misfits, totally ripped off Metallica’s “Last Caress” and “Green Hell”. I mean, who the hell is this Glenn Danzig fellow?

//

273 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:30:58pm

re: #262 Kragar

I wonder how many are drive by spammers.

No obvious spamming going on.

274 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:32:03pm

re: #272 Dr Lizardo

Or like some band no one ever heard of, The Misfits, totally ripped off Metallica’s “Last Caress” and “Green Hell”. I mean, who the hell is this Glenn Danzig fellow?

//

Of the artists and music in your comment, I’ve heard of Metallica.

(shuffles off to get slippers.)

275 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:32:42pm

re: #270 Kragar

Fischer: Gay Activists Are Modern Day Nazi Stormtroopers

Because demanding your rights is just like carting millions of your fellow citizens off to labor and death camps.

276 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:32:47pm

re: #273 Charles Johnson

No obvious spamming going on.

Well, alrighty then.

277 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:32:49pm
278 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:33:45pm

re: #274 Decatur Deb

Of the artists and music in your comment, I’ve heard of Metallica.

(shuffles off to get slippers.)

/clutches at pearls

Youtube Video

279 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:34:44pm

re: #260 Charles Johnson

The “no” votes are pulling ahead in our poll, by the way.

Not surprising, though disappointing. It’s rather distressing that so many would feel it preferable that we sit by and watch Assad gas his people into submission than take action on the fear that it might expand into an occupation. There is no “good” option, that’s true, but inaction is amongst the worst of those on the table.

280 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:35:27pm

re: #275 GeneJockey

Because demanding your rights is just like carting millions of your fellow citizens off to labor and death camps.

I mean, it certainly explains why legalizing same sex marriage was one of the first things the Nazis did when they came into power.

281 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:37:01pm

re: #280 Kragar

I mean, it certainly explains why legalizing same sex marriage was one of the first things the Nazis did when they came into power.

Yeah, wasn’t Kristallnacht the day all those gay couples registered their flatware and crystal patterns?
//

282 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:37:07pm

Kerry reminding everyone that Syria has historically been secular. And would most likely want to remain so.

Throwing wrenches into some viewpoints.

283 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:37:34pm

re: #270 Kragar

Fischer: Gay Activists Are Modern Day Nazi Stormtroopers

How many gay activists have killed people, Bryan? Fucking asshole.

284 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:37:49pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

Again, these isolationists are so very similar to the America Firsters before WWII.

285 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:38:09pm

re: #274 Decatur Deb

Of the artists and music in your comment, I’ve heard of Metallica.

(shuffles off to get slippers.)

LOL

286 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:38:22pm

re: #272 Dr Lizardo

Time to get some Whiskey in the Jar and Turn the Page on Metallica, who were ripped off by a bunch of Irish dudes (Dubliners), and Bob Seger, respectively. /

287 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:38:58pm

re: #282 ObserverArt

Kerry reminding everyone that Syria has historically been secular. And would most likely wanting to remain so.

Throwing wrenches into some viewpoints.

If the Syrians were getting what they wanted, we wouldn’t be having a war or a thread.

288 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:39:22pm

re: #281 GeneJockey

Yeah, wasn’t Kristallnacht the day all those gay couples registered their flatware and crystal patterns?
//

The Wannesse Conference was where Heydich gay married all the Nazis. I’m sick of this shit. GLBT people just want the same rights under the law as straight people. It actually down right angers me that there are people out there like Fischer who think that makes them like one of the most evil regimes to ever exist. What’s worse is he knows damn well that GLBT people were heavily persecuted by the Nazis but he doesn’t care because he only cares about his bullshit martyr complex.

289 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:39:38pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

How many gay activists have killed people, Bryan? Fucking asshole.

If not for the eternal vigilance of men like Bryan Fischer, the body count would likely be staggering. Thank goodness he is here to protect us.
///////////////

290 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:40:12pm
291 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:40:30pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

Not surprising, though disappointing. It’s rather distressing that so many would feel it preferable that we sit by and watch Assad gas his people into submission than take action on the fear that it might expand into an occupation. There is no “good” option, that’s true, but inaction is amongst the worst of those on the table.

I think it’s Superpower Fatigue. Leaving aside Iraq, we overthrew the Taliban in Afghanistan, and 12 years later they’re still powerful. We helped out in Libya, and we get Benghazi in return. We stand aside for Arab Spring in Egypt and keep the foreign aid flowing, and a year or so later there’s ANOTHER coup.

I think a lot of people are asking why it has to be us - If nobody else cares, why should we?

292 BeenHereAwhile  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:41:00pm

Jesse Winchester’s “Brand New Tennessee Waltz”

Covered by: Ralph Stanley & The Clinch Mountain Boys
(Recorded approx 1972)

Youtube Video

293 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:41:14pm

re: #286 lawhawk

Time to get some Whiskey in the Jar and Turn the Page on Metallica, who were ripped off by a bunch of Irish dudes (Dubliners), and Bob Seger, respectively. /

Or how that totally kick-ass song, “Mrs. Robinson” by the Lemonheads was ripped off by a couple of dirty hippies calling themselves Simon & Garfunkel. I mean, WTF?

///

Youtube Video

294 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:41:29pm

re: #290 Lidane

Tiny, but a win.

295 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:41:36pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

Not surprising, though disappointing. It’s rather distressing that so many would feel it preferable that we sit by and watch Assad gas his people into submission than take action on the fear that it might expand into an occupation. There is no “good” option, that’s true, but inaction is amongst the worst of those on the table.

I blame George Bush. No sarcasm implied.

296 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:42:17pm

re: #286 lawhawk

Time to get some Whiskey in the Jar and Turn the Page on Metallica, who were ripped off by a bunch of Irish dudes (Dubliners), and Bob Seger, respectively. /

Ooooh. Whiskey in the Jar. Ever hear the Thin Lizzy version? That’s considered Irish traditional music is it not, as in no one author and passed down?

Youtube Video

297 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:43:01pm

re: #295 prairiefire

I blame George Bush. No sarcasm implied.

No, totally reasonable. The way Bush handled Afghanistan and to a larger extent Iraq no doubt soured many people on what could be legitimate military operations. But hey I’m just blaming Bush,//

298 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:43:21pm

re: #295 prairiefire

I blame George Bush. No sarcasm implied.

Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

299 allegro  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:43:36pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

Not surprising, though disappointing. It’s rather distressing that so many would feel it preferable that we sit by and watch Assad gas his people into submission than take action on the fear that it might expand into an occupation. There is no “good” option, that’s true, but inaction is amongst the worst of those on the table.

I answered “not sure” because there’s not enough information on specifically what military intervention means. I haven’t even heard a goal stated and without that most everything else is a pointless discussion.

300 freetoken  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:44:17pm

re: #228 blueraven

This is interesting

Yes, but it often takes being at the moment of decision for deeper feelings to manifest.

301 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:44:34pm

On reading the comments on the topic it looks the Bush administration has, finally, succeeded. They invaded Iraq a decade ago with the intent of bringing any form of international law to an end leaving it to the strongest nations on the planet to decide what was right and what was wrong.

This will lead to the lesser nations banding together in protection against each other.

Then, someday, an Austrian Archduke is assassinated, or some nation uses chemical weapons against its own population and another nation decides to intervene. At which point treaties start being triggered and the dominoes fall leading to a general melee.

It’s happened before, and this time around all the major combatants have WMD.

For those arguing the ‘moral’ ground for war against Syria (I won’t dignify it with a weasel word like ‘intervention’. Let’s call a spade a spade.) what makes Syria different from Burma? From Zimbabwe? From Iran, Uzbekistan China or Russia? All of them are engaged in evil behaviour that is causing massive suffering for large swaths of their population, but no one is suggesting war against them. What makes them different?

What’s happening in Syria horrifies me. What may happen if we attack them will be worse.

So, find some other way to deal with the problem. War isn’t the answer.

Oh, forgot to add. Here’s the song going through my head now.

302 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45:10pm

re: #296 ObserverArt

Ooooh. Whiskey in the Jar. Ever hear the Thin Lizzy version? That’s considered Irish traditional music is it not, as in no one author and passed down?

[Embedded content]

The Irish Guards played it as they left barracks for Iraq.

Youtube Video

(The wolfhound is wearing a red parade coat. When they marched back a year later he was wearing desert camo.)

303 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45:23pm

re: #299 allegro

I answered “not sure” because there’s not enough information on specifically what military intervention means. I haven’t even heard a goal stated and without that most everything else is a pointless discussion.

I agree that I’d prefer a goal in mind, but there’s always mission creep, it’s pretty much expected. Kerry addressed that as a possibility already, that strikes might lead into boots on the ground strictly for the purpose of securing chemical weapon stores in the event of the regime’s collapse. I would think that the possibility of such weapons ending up in the hands of terrorist and extremist groups would be of concern to the most jaded isolationist.

304 freetoken  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45:45pm

re: #301 Romantic Heretic

You left off Congo/Rwanda.

305 Amory Blaine  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:45:57pm

Fire Marshal: Inspections Refused Since West Blast

Five facilities in Texas with large quantities of the same fertilizer chemical that fueled the deadly plant explosion in West have turned away state fire marshal inspectors since the blast, investigators said Monday.

A railway operator that hauls hazardous materials across Texas was also said to have rebuffed a state request to share data since the April explosion at West Fertilizer Co. that killed 15 people and injured 200 others.

Regulators and state lawmakers at a hearing about the still-unsolved explosion were intrigued by the lack of cooperation. State Fire Marshal Chris Connealy said “well, sure” when asked whether those facilities refusing to admit inspectors raised concern.

“In their defense, they may have a very good reason,” Connealy said

.

306 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:46:07pm

re: #301 Romantic Heretic

Then what is?

307 EPR-radar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:46:45pm

re: #288 HappyWarrior

The Wannesse Conference was where Heydich gay married all the Nazis. I’m sick of this shit. GLBT people just want the same rights under the law as straight people. It actually down right angers me that there are people out there like Fischer who think that makes them like one of the most evil regimes to ever exist. What’s worse is he knows damn well that GLBT people were heavily persecuted by the Nazis but he doesn’t care because he only cares about his bullshit martyr complex.

IMO, it is much more sinister that just feeding a persecution complex. A significant chunk of the US right wing is actively searching for scapegoats to blame for everything.

Should such scapegoating become acceptable politically, they would fire up the ovens in short order to rid the US of the designated targets.

308 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:47:04pm

re: #305 Amory Blaine

Damn regulators hassling the businessman.
///

309 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:49:18pm

re: #305 Amory Blaine

Fire Marshal: Inspections Refused Since West Blast

.

My surprise, let me…

Aw, fuck it. We knew it was gonna be this way.

310 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:49:29pm

re: #307 EPR-radar

IMO, it is much more sinister that just feeding a persecution complex. A significant chunk of the US right wing is actively searching for scapegoats to blame for everything.

Should such scapegoating become acceptable politically, they would fire up the ovens in short order to rid the US of the designated targets.

In any case, the shit gets old. Fischer’s more of a Nazi than the average gay person just wanting to be treated as an equal will ever be. I wish Holocaust survivors would tell him to shut the fuck up about a subject he knows nothing about.

311 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:49:57pm

re: #273 Charles Johnson

No obvious spamming going on.

Well, as an old Vietnam War protester, I voted, “Yes.”

Different circumstances entirely, and Vietnam dragged on forever, from the French colonial period onward.

The ME has been a screw up for years, and all that sectioning off, with not much thought about tribal or religious differences by the West didn’t help. We propped up too many dictators in the past and interfered too much. Now that Pres Obama wants to do something good and save civilians without further inference, it has become a huge problem, following as it is on the heels of Iraq and Afghanistan.

312 psddluva4evah  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:50:10pm

I voted “undecided”, because there was no “in-between”. I am not for intervention, but then again, I don’t feel good about the idea that that means that I am okay with CW being used by guv’t to kill people.

I understand a numbers of polls have come out saying that a majority of Americans and Brits oppose intervention . I honestly think that most people are war fatigued and don’t really care if chem weapons are used by other countries unless/until they are used on American/British citizens or military. I completely understand the sentiment. But I also think that once that standard is set its set.

I think the debate is good to have, but if the Congress bases on polls and voter fatigue, then they will vote no as they should. But what I am saying is that is fine but I’m uncomfortable with the idea that a real precedent will be set that the use of chem weapons by a controlling gov’t on it’s own people while not sanction by international community, that it is not gonna be treated as anything serious unless/until a certain number of people are killed or affected by the chem weapons. And if the next time is against American citizens then what say we then???

FYI I understand the US history w/regards to use of chem weapons and such by Hussein and such during the Reagan years and such, but IMHO, just because Reagan era US Foreign Policy was poopy, doesn’t mean that we should be ok with stuff like this going on.

313 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:50:27pm

re: #305 Amory Blaine

Fire Marshal: Inspections Refused Since West Blast

.

“In their defense, they may have a very good reason,” Connealy said

FREE MARKETS!!11!!!

314 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:50:31pm

Calling Texas a third world banana republic is an insult to third world banana republics.

315 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:50:59pm

Everything’s bigger in Texas includign stupidity.

316 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:51:37pm

re: #286 lawhawk

Time to get some Whiskey in the Jar and Turn the Page on Metallica, who were ripped off by a bunch of Irish dudes (Dubliners), and Bob Seger, respectively. /

Dubliners ripped off Thin Lizzy!

317 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:53:29pm

Here’s a bicycle that goes up and down instead of forward.

Youtube Video

318 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:53:52pm

re: #306 Targetpractice

Then what is?

If I were in any position of responsibility, rigidly enforced sanctions of war material from ammo to spare parts while allowing medicine, food, clothing and shelter in. It might take longer to have effect but it would eventually have effect.

Use of military action has a tendency to run out of control and you never know where it will end. As Iraq so amply demonstrated.

319 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:56:17pm

re: #318 Romantic Heretic

Iraq was over in 6 weeks, they gave us flowers and paid for it out of oil revenues. And we got all the contracts.

320 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:56:23pm

re: #318 Romantic Heretic

If I were in any position of responsibility, rigidly enforced sanctions of war material from ammo to spare parts while allowing medicine, food, clothing and shelter in. It might take longer to have effect but it would eventually have effect.

Use of military action has a tendency to run out of control and you never know where it will end. As Iraq so amply demonstrated.

So we would issue Assad a carte blanche to gas his people until deposed or until another nation gets fed up and takes action itself?

321 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:56:46pm


Just like when Reagan was impeached for invading Grenada!

322 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:58:09pm

re: #317 wrenchwench

Here’s a bicycle that goes up and down instead of forward.

[Embedded content]

Oh come on, you’re pulleying my leg.

323 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 1:59:00pm

re: #321 Kragar

[Embedded content]


Just like when Reagan was impeached for invading Grenada!

So, on the one side of the wingnut camp, you have Bryan Fischer saying if Obama goes ahead without Congressional Approval it’s an impeachable offense, while on the other side, Peter King saying Obama’s weakening the Presidency by even asking.

I’ll retire to bedlam.

324 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:00:39pm

re: #320 Targetpractice

So we would issue Assad a carte blanche to gas his people until deposed or until another nation gets fed up and takes action itself?

For want of a better idea. If the Ban Ki Mun statement is accurately reported, you might be faced with damage to either the CW conventions or to the UN charter.

325 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:00:58pm

re: #279 Targetpractice

Not surprising, though disappointing. It’s rather distressing that so many would feel it preferable that we sit by and watch Assad gas his people into submission than take action on the fear that it might expand into an occupation. There is no “good” option, that’s true, but inaction is amongst the worst of those on the table.

As opposed to mass artillery bombardment of his people, mass napalming of his people and mass machine gunning of his people? We are meddling in a region where we are famously incapable of bringing about anything remotely resembling a desirable outcome…and where our involvement has actually made matters worse in the recent past.

I see little chance for us to save anyone who we wish to save, and many opportunities to enable Islamist despots who will use our ‘help’ to gleefully go about ethnic and religious cleansing, mass murder of the people we wanted to help in the first place and the extermination of the Orthodox Christian community.

326 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:01:23pm

re: #317 wrenchwench

Here’s a bicycle that goes up and down instead of forward.

[Embedded content]

I love the chain to keep the counterweights from pulling it up. Kind of like antijump muscles.

327 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:02:56pm

re: #323 GeneJockey

So, on the one side of the wingnut camp, you have Bryan Fischer saying if Obama goes ahead without Congressional Approval it’s an impeachable offense, while on the other side, Peter King saying Obama’s weakening the Presidency by even asking.

I’ll retire to bedlam.

And here Obama is stuck in the middle with you. But yeah this is what he deals with. I frankly think it’s pathetic and says a lot about his opposition.

328 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:03:42pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

For want of a better idea. If the Ban Ki Mun statement is accurately reported, you might be faced with damage to either the CW conventions or to the UN charter.

“Damage”? I’d say a refusal by any major nation to intervene would be a wholesale shredding of the CWC. We’re already on record as supporting the Saddam regime in gassing the Iranian people. What precedent do we set by now sitting on our hands while Assad gasses his own people?

329 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:03:42pm

re: #320 Targetpractice

So we would issue Assad a carte blanche to gas his people until deposed or until another nation gets fed up and takes action itself?

I’d use less inflammatory terms but yes. Assad is Syria’s problem to solve, not ours.

If we intervene here it will set precedent. What will we do when Russia, say, decides to ‘intervene’ in Georgia or Ukraine? Will we have the right to tell them that is a bad thing they are doing? Why is what they are doing different from what we might do in Syria? Will we ‘intervene’ ourselves? Where would such a thing end?

As I said, the use of chemical weapons on civilians horrifies me. But going to war against Syria is not, in my opinion, the answer.

330 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:04:14pm
331 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:04:27pm

re: #321 Kragar

[Embedded content]


Just like when Reagan was impeached for invading Grenada!

or when Reagan ignored the Boland Amendment but that was different. Reagan could have shot someone in the face and they’d excuse it because Reagan could do whatever the hell he and his administration wanted do in their twisted eyes.

332 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:04:28pm

re: #327 HappyWarrior

And here Obama is stuck in the middle with you. But yeah this is what he deals with. I frankly think it’s pathetic and says a lot about his opposition.

“Whatever it is, I’m against it!

“No matter what it is, or who commenced it, I’m against it!”

333 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:05:04pm

re: #325 celticdragon

As opposed to mass artillery bombardment of his people, mass napalming of his people and mass machine gunning of his people? We are meddling in a region where we are famously incapable of bringing about anything remotely resembling a desirable outcome…and where our involvement has actually made matters worse in the recent past.

I see little chance for us to save anyone who we wish to save, and many opportunities to enable Islamist despots who will use our ‘help’ to gleefully go about ethnic and religious cleansing, mass murder of the people we wanted to help in the first place and the extermination of the Orthodox Christian community.

And you don’t think you’re enabling them by sitting on the sidelines? Do you feel that inaction will make us look better in the eyes of the Syrian people who oppose those extremists?

334 freetoken  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:05:13pm

Off, topic, but here is yet another example (on top of my original skepticsim - due to the founder’s previous infatuation with Glenn Beck) of why I don’t like (and rarely link to) the “Science 2.0” website:

By the anonymous “News Staff ” -

Solomon’s Mines Found In Israel

[…]

“The mines are definitely from the period of King Solomon,” says Dr. Erez Ben-Yosef of Tel Aviv University’s Jacob M. Alkow Department of Archaeology and Near Eastern Cultures.

[…]

The findings were reported in the journal The American Schools of Oriental Research in 2012 […]


Ben-Yosef says this calls into question archaeology’s traditional assumption that advanced societies usually leave behind architectural ruins. He also says that the findings at the Slaves’ Hill undermine criticisms of the Bible’s historicity based on a lack of archaeological evidence. It’s entirely possible that David and Solomon existed and even that they exerted some control over the mines in the Timna Valley at times, he says.

There’s a lot wrong with all of this, starting with the assertion in the title.

Anyway, the uncritical presentation of this article, which started in Haaretz then made its way to PhysOrg and finally wound up on Science 2.0. The bottom line is that Ben-Yosef uses the “It’s entirely possible” argument because he is out to reestablish (as the Haaretz article notes) the more traditional (religious) assertion about the Bible. As written in Haaretz:

Ben Yosef is also set to refute an archaeological convention whereby only civilizations that left architecturally impressive structures could be considered as sufficiently developed to establish and maintain an economic and engineering operation of the scope of the Timna mines. “It was a society that mostly lived in tents, but still had impressive military power, since it was necessary to protect the copper mines,” he says.

The reason he is out to do this is that the conquest narrative of the Bible has been overturned by quite a long list of archeological research, and religious people want to restore the traditional stories’ reputation.

At least a website called “Science” anything could be more upfront about the back story.

335 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:05:18pm

re: #330 Lidane

[Embedded content]

I see he took some off from fapping to the Southern Avenger’s radio show to make that statement…

336 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:06:15pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

For want of a better idea. If the Ban Ki Mun statement is accurately reported, you might be faced with damage to either the CW conventions or to the UN charter.

Yeah, I think at this point the CWC is pretty much a dead letter. It, like all of ‘International Law’ depends on at least some enforcement. Sternly worded letters don’t cut it.

337 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:07:08pm

re: #335 celticdragon

I see he took some off from fapping to the Southern Avenger’s radio show to make that statement…

He wrote the statement with his other hand. But I am glad we have another exhibit in the asshole that is Rand Paul. I hope the DSCC targets his ass big time in 2016 and he’s thrown out of office like the embarrassment he is.

338 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:07:26pm

re: #333 Targetpractice

And you don’t think you’re enabling them by sitting on the sidelines? Do you feel that inaction will make us look better in the eyes of the Syrian people who oppose those extremists?

What Syrian people do you mean? Will we look any better when we help install an Al Qaeda affiliated government???

339 EmmaAnne  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:07:32pm

re: #271 GeneJockey

Indeed. I wonder what all made the difference? The situation in Egypt? Realization that there are no Good Guys in Syria? Or the difference between a hypothetical “If/Then”, and being faced with the ‘If’ being true and having to deal with the ‘Then’?

I am guessing it is because England just voted against doing anything. A lot of people probably took their cue from that, because England is such a close ally and usually pretty willing to intervene when necessary.

340 Carlos Danger  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:07:59pm

Everybody knows the real answer to this poll is RON PAUL

341 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:08:06pm

re: #329 Romantic Heretic

I’d use less inflammatory terms but yes. Assad is Syria’s problem to solve, not ours.

If we intervene here it will set precedent. What will we do when Russia, say, decides to ‘intervene’ in Georgia or Ukraine? Will we have the right to tell them that is a bad thing they are doing? Why is what they are doing different from what we might do in Syria? Will we ‘intervene’ ourselves? Where would such a thing end?

As I said, the use of chemical weapons on civilians horrifies me. But going to war against Syria is not, in my opinion, the answer.

But see, you said “going to war”. That isn’t what’s being proposed. It is only if you see a tailored response to the slaughter of Syrians as “war.”

342 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:09:50pm

McCain getting testy w/Kerry…

Get off my lawn!

343 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:09:51pm

re: #329 Romantic Heretic

I’d use less inflammatory terms but yes. Assad is Syria’s problem to solve, not ours.

If we intervene here it will set precedent. What will we do when Russia, say, decides to ‘intervene’ in Georgia or Ukraine? Will we have the right to tell them that is a bad thing they are doing? Why is what they are doing different from what we might do in Syria? Will we ‘intervene’ ourselves? Where would such a thing end?

As I said, the use of chemical weapons on civilians horrifies me. But going to war against Syria is not, in my opinion, the answer.

Russia already beat the shit out of Georgia without UN approval, they just cited “self defense.” We beat the shit out of Iraq, we said we were enforcing UNSC resolutions that invoked “grave consequences” for not cooperating with inspections. The precedent’s already been set.

344 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:10:41pm

re: #338 celticdragon

What Syrian people do you mean? Will we look any better when we help install an Al Qaeda affiliated government???

Do you know that won’t happen without our intervention? Do we know who will come out on top of the heap if we just sit on our hands and watch?

345 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:11:03pm

LOLWUT
Would Glenn support bombing Israel?

346 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:11:31pm

re: #343 Targetpractice

I’d like to think we would set a higher bar for ourselves than “the Russians did it.”

347 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:12:18pm

re: #346 Kragar

I’d like to think we would set a higher bar for ourselves than “the Russians did it.”

But Putin is the leader of the Free World!
//

348 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:12:25pm

re: #346 Kragar

I’d like to think we would set a higher bar for ourselves than “the Russians did it.”

You misunderstand, the Russians had to limbo under the low bar we set with Iraq.

349 freetoken  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:12:57pm

re: #345 Vicious Babushka

He can’t let an hour go by without reasserting that he indeed is the center of the World.

350 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:12:59pm

re: #348 Targetpractice

You misunderstand, the Russians had to limbo under the low bar we set with Iraq.

Ah, gotcha.

351 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:13:02pm

Just got home and watching the hearings. If I am hearing correctly, it sounds like what is being proposed here is something more than just a targeted military strike in response to Assad’s use of chemical weapons. Kerry (I think) seemed to suggest the aim was to destabilize Assad’s regime and prepare the way for forcing his ouster (by the Syrians of course). This sounds dangerously murky and open-ended.

352 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:13:05pm
353 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:13:08pm

re: #328 Targetpractice

“Damage”? I’d say a refusal by any major nation to intervene would be a wholesale shredding of the CWC. We’re already on record as supporting the Saddam regime in gassing the Iranian people. What precedent do we set by now sitting on our hands while Assad gasses his own people?

After the Saddam reveals, there’s not much more that skipping Syria could shred. The likelihood that any nation would be punished for use of banned weapons is directly proportional to their size. China will not be attacked if it poisons a troublesome Tibetan or provincial village, and I’m not even sure they haven’t.

354 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:14:23pm

re: #341 Justanotherhuman

But see, you said “going to war”. That isn’t what’s being proposed. It is only if you see a tailored response to the slaughter of Syrians as “war.”

Loose language. War means anything that is of any military response, even though many times military’s are used as police forces with no war declaration.

I wonder what Romantic Heretic thinks the answer is if there is one?

355 psddluva4evah  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:14:42pm

I swear McCain has a version of Tourette’s Syndrome that causes him to do some good and honorable things. Usually, he comes off as a grumpy old man to me. Here though, good on McCain

McCain Slams Fox News: Muslims Thank Allah Like Christians Thank God (VIDEO)

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) pushed back hard Tuesday against a Fox News host who raised concerns over a Syrian rebel’s use of a ubiquitous Islamic phrase…
“I have a problem helping those people screaming that after a hit,” Kilmeade said.

A clearly annoyed McCain quickly hit back.

“You have a problem with that? Would you have a problem with an American Christian saying ‘thank God, thank God’?” McCain said. “That’s what they’re saying. Come on. Of course they’re Muslims, but they’re moderates and I guarantee you that they are moderates. I know them and I’ve been with them. For someone to say ‘Allahu Akbar’ is about as offensive as someone saying ‘thank God.’”

356 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:15:34pm

re: #330 Lidane

[Embedded content]

hahahahaaa!
Boehner couldn’t give away the Speaker’s job when the House was voting for Speaker.

357 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:15:56pm

re: #355 psddluva4evah

I swear McCain has a version of Tourette’s Syndrome that causes him to do some good and honorable things. Usually, he comes off as a grumpy old man to me. Here though, good on McCain

McCain Slams Fox News: Muslims Thank Allah Like Christians Thank God (VIDEO)

Blind pig. Acorn.

358 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:16:29pm

re: #355 psddluva4evah

McCain laughs as he mocks Laura Ingraham’s ‘vast knowledge of military tactics’

During an appearance on Fox & Friends to drum up support for an attack on Syria, host Steve Doocy told McCain that Ingraham had accused him of “flip-flopping on his support for President Obama” because he supported a congressional resolution authorizing military action.

“She feels as though you’re bailing him out of a misguided, confused policy,” co-host Brian Kilmeade noted. “Now when you come out to the microphones and say, ‘Hey, we got to support this,’ that people can’t understand where that came from.’”

“First of all, I didn’t say, ‘Hey, we got to support this,’” McCain replied. “Second of all, I was encouraged when the president commits to increasing our support for the Free Syrian Army, for providing them with weapons that they need to combat Bashar al-Assad, and to degrade the capabilities of the Syrians to deliver these chemical weapons and other weapons.”

“So, I just beg to differ, I’m sure that with her vast knowledge of military tactics and strategy, she knows better than me,” the Arizona senator added, cracking himself up with remark.

359 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:17:21pm

re: #355 psddluva4evah

I swear McCain has a version of Tourette’s Syndrome that causes him to do some good and honorable things. Usually, he comes off as a grumpy old man to me. Here though, good on McCain

McCain Slams Fox News: Muslims Thank Allah Like Christians Thank God (VIDEO)

He’s certainly hard to figure out. Kilmeade’s just trolling to the Islamaphobic viewership that comprises FNC. He knows better but he’s got his marching orders to stir up fear because the word “Allah” scares the bigots that watch that channel for their news.

360 Jack Burton  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:17:42pm

re: #329 Romantic Heretic

I’d use less inflammatory terms but yes. Assad is Syria’s problem to solve, not ours.

Flaunting international law on chemical weapons use makes Assad everyone’s problem. If there was no WMD use we would not even be discussing the issue. Saying “let them take care of their own bullshit” sends the message to every maniac on the planet that the UN will not do anything about it if they start gassing people.

This is the whole reason anyone is even talking about this. The question is the best way to not send that message. Every option is also a shit sandwich, and it doesn’t help when 2 major world powers are totally fine ignoring egregious violations of international agreements if it benefits them in the slightest… and they have UNSC veto power.

361 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:18:44pm

Well, it is a Russian cat…(shown over at PuffPo)

Cat’s reaction to peace sign.

Youtube Video

362 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:19:06pm

re: #358 Kragar


McCain laughs as he mocks Laura Ingraham’s ‘vast knowledge of military tactics’

Wait you’re flip-flopping if you support a Congressional resolution. Goddamn these people are dumb. I swear, I think the only reason why Laura Ingraham is allowed to have a show is for the rest of us to see that any dumbass with a right wing opinion can get his or her own show.

363 freetoken  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:20:42pm

re: #362 HappyWarrior

Hating the Black man in the White house supersedes any previous arguments of foreign policy.

364 darthstar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:21:20pm
365 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:21:35pm

re: #363 freetoken

Hating the Black man in the White house supersedes any previous arguments of foreign policy.

Yep. It’s been a long four and a half years. This isn’t even an ideology. It’s a reaction. Obama says up. We say down.

366 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:21:55pm

re: #364 darthstar

[Embedded content]

That’s the look I get when I hear Marco Rubio talk about anything.

367 thedopefishlives  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:22:03pm

re: #364 darthstar

“I don’t know what the f—— you’re saying.”

Evening Lizardim from the cool and beautiful wild north country.

368 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:22:25pm

re: #364 darthstar

That is the “I can’t believe you are that f***ing stupid” face.

369 Carlos Danger  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:22:37pm

re: #364 darthstar

The person in the back is funny too.

370 thedopefishlives  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:23:08pm

re: #369 Carlos Danger

The person in the back is funny too.

I’m betting one of the ones cut off in the photo is making a face like, “HERR DERRRP”. I would.

371 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:23:35pm

If one were so inclined, I expect one could troll freepers and wingnuts by posting Bush quotes about why we needed to go into Iraq, but saying they were from Obama about Syria, and get a pretty good reaction out of them.

372 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:24:08pm

re: #368 ProTARDISLiberal

That is the “I can’t believe you are that f***ing stupid” face.

I actually think of the Billy Madison line- We are now all dumber for having heard that. I award you zero points and may God have mercy on your soul.

373 freetoken  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:24:09pm

re: #371 Kragar

They have a thing for false quotes, anyway.

374 EdDantes  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:28:00pm

re: #5 Kragar

I support the idea of military intervention, though its actual scope and implementation would affect my support of the issue over all.

If its another farcical air war like the bombing campagin in Bosnia, then forget all about it.

If its actually conducted in support of assets who can exploit the attacks on the ground, then I would say yes.

There ain’t no good guy. There ain’t no bad guy.
There is only you and me and we just disagree.

375 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:29:43pm

Fuckers.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 24m

NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of welfare drug testing bill #abc11 #ncpol

376 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:30:20pm

re: #375 Justanotherhuman

Fuckers.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 24m

NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of welfare drug testing bill #abc11 #ncpol

Never let a veto stand in the way of shaming the poors.

377 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:30:28pm

This Repub from Wyoming sounds unreasonably reasonable for a Repub. Is this who Liz Cheney is running against?

378 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:30:28pm

re: #375 Justanotherhuman

Fuckers.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 24m

NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of welfare drug testing bill #abc11 #ncpol

Small government. and individual rights.

379 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:30:51pm

re: #364 darthstar


That’s a “Bitch plz” face if I’ve ever seen one. LOL Hagel.

380 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:30:51pm

re: #377 Bulworth

This Repub from Wyoming sounds unreasonably reasonable for a Repub. Is this who Liz Cheney is running against?

Which one is it? Crapo or Barassaco?

381 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:30:59pm

re: #375 Justanotherhuman

Fuckers.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 24m

NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of welfare drug testing bill #abc11 #ncpol

NC house votes to piss away money on a complete waste of time to try and fuck over poor people.

382 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:31:33pm

re: #380 HappyWarrior

Barassaco

383 Carlos Danger  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:31:44pm
384 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:32:45pm

re: #382 Bulworth

Barassaco

She’s challenging Crapo.

385 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:33:03pm

There’s a Democratic Senator from Connecticut named Murphy. I never would have gotten that on a trivia question.

386 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:33:32pm

re: #378 HappyWarrior

Small government. and individual rights.

Yeah, the individual “right” to have to pay for a drug test legislated by hypocritical asshats.

387 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:34:23pm

re: #383 Carlos Danger

This is really rich:

Vinnie Jones claims immigration has made England unrecognisable and ‘not the country I grew up in’

His solution: immigrate to America.

And to LA of all places. But I guess it’s like John Derbyshire, English immigrant to the US bitching about immigrants.

388 Kragar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:34:30pm

re: #383 Carlos Danger

This is really rich:

Vinnie Jones claims immigration has made England unrecognisable and ‘not the country I grew up in’

His solution: immigrate to America.

Get out.

389 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:34:35pm

re: #383 Carlos Danger

Vinnie Jones is who?

I’m guessing some q-List “celebrity.”

390 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:35:16pm

re: #386 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, the individual “right” to have to pay for a drug test legislated by hypocritical asshats.

Yep. And guilty until proven innocent. Sigh. I am glad that McGrory at least had the decency to veto the bill but damn it.

391 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:35:19pm

re: #369 Carlos Danger

The person in the back is funny too.

Side eye!

392 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:35:51pm

Shit. More fuckery from the Republican Gen Assembly.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 20m

#BREAKING NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of immigration status bill. #abc11 #ncpol

393 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:36:51pm

And yet, we accept next to no refugees today.

394 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:36:59pm

re: #392 Justanotherhuman

Shit. More fuckery from the Republican Gen Assembly.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 20m

#BREAKING NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of immigration status bill. #abc11 #ncpol

Goes to show that a lot of the problems we have in our country are not on executives like Obama but shitty legislatures.

395 justaminute  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:37:04pm

I voted no.

I have a problem with symbolic gestures, especially in the Middle East.

You should either commit or stay home and provide aid to the refugees.

Because either way, we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

396 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:37:40pm

re: #392 Justanotherhuman

Shit. More fuckery from the Republican Gen Assembly.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 20m

#BREAKING NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of immigration status bill. #abc11 #ncpol

North Carolina—proving it’s not saner than South Carolina after all.

397 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:38:13pm

The 2 times McCrory decided to act human and he gets shot down.

398 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:38:16pm

re: #394 HappyWarrior

Goes to show that a lot of the problems we have in our country are not on executives like Obama but shitty legislatures.

Especially post-2010. As bad as the GOP House has been, the state Legislatures have really become the Lavatory of Democracy.

399 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:38:26pm

re: #393 ProTARDISLiberal

[Embedded content]

And yet, we accept next to no refugees today.

Perhaps they’re trying to change that policy? And yeah the U.S, Canadian, and European handling of pre-war refugees from Nazi Germany is a shameful chapter in our history.

400 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:39:22pm

re: #398 GeneJockey

Especially post-2010. As bad as the GOP House has been, the state Legislatures have really become the Lavatory of Democracy.

Don’t I know it. Bobby McD would have signed an ultrasound bill but fortunately enough hell was raised. Attorney General “I want to criminalize head” would sign such legislation with a smile on his face though.

401 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:40:17pm

re: #400 HappyWarrior

Pencil

402 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:40:42pm

re: #392 Justanotherhuman

Speaking of fuckery:

403 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:40:52pm

re: #399 HappyWarrior

That is activism I get get behind. Increasing the numbers of refugees allowed into the US per year.

However, I need to find the appropriate emotional argument. Emotional appeals often are more successful than logical ones, and right now my argument would be the shameful treatment we gave to European Jews pre-WWII.

However, I get the feeling that is awfully close to Godwin.

404 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:41:24pm

re: #401 Decatur Deb

Pencil

Thanks.

405 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:41:46pm

re: #396 Decatur Deb

North Carolina—still jealous South Carolina got to fire the first shot.

406 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:41:55pm

Oh, Senator Paul.

407 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:41:56pm

re: #399 HappyWarrior

Perhaps they’re trying to change that policy? And yeah the U.S, Canadian, and European handling of pre-war refugees from Nazi Germany is a shameful chapter in our history.

Very much so.

Though to be fair, who could have imagined the cruel efficiency of the Nazi genocide, in a modern European nation? It’s still boggles the mind, that combination of savage ferocity with cold, remorseless, modern efficiency.

408 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:42:21pm

Sen. Paul now.
I apologize in advance for his asshattery…

409 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:42:21pm

re: #392 Justanotherhuman

Shit. More fuckery from the Republican Gen Assembly.

Joel Brown ‏@JoelBrownABC11 20m

#BREAKING NC House votes to override @PatMcCroryNC veto of immigration status bill. #abc11 #ncpol

Wanna know how to embed the tweet? It’s easy!

Find the time stamp (or the word ‘details’), copy the link that’s contained in it, then paste it on its own line in the comment box. Preview to see that it worked.

410 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:42:21pm

re: #402 Lidane

Speaking of fuckery:

[Embedded content]

Yeah, Gene Jockey at #398 is absolutely correct.

411 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:43:58pm

re: #407 GeneJockey

Very much so.

Though to be fair, who could have imagined the cruel efficiency of the Nazi genocide, in a modern European nation? It’s still boggles the mind, that combination of savage ferocity with cold, remorseless, modern efficiency.

True that but I do think and a lot don’t want to admit that casual Antisemitism was very common in Europe and the US. I read that book about the first American ambassador to Germany, there were sadly a lot of people who thought that Germany did have a “Jewish problem.”

412 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:44:08pm

re: #409 wrenchwench

Wanna know how to embed the tweet? It’s easy!

Find the time stamp (or the word ‘details’), copy the link that’s contained in it, then paste it on its own line in the comment box. Preview to see that it worked.

[Embedded content]

Thanks. I get in a hurry and screw it up. : )

413 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:44:10pm

re: #400 HappyWarrior

Don’t I know it. Bobby McD would have signed an ultrasound bill but fortunately enough hell was raised. Attorney General I want to criminalize head though would sign such legislation with a smile on his face though.

And that is why I say we’ll be decades digging out of the mess made by those lazy fuckers who thought electing Obama was all they had to do.

414 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:46:53pm

Rand Paul pontificating as a Constitutional scholar and foreign affairs expert more than ANYONE else in the room…

::facepalm::

that’s all I got…

415 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:47:26pm

re: #413 GeneJockey

And that is why I say we’ll be decades digging out of the mess made by those lazy fuckers who thought electing Obama was all they had to do.

It pisses me off. We lost the House at just about the worst possible time to lose it. Now fortunately demographics are changing and from what I understand people are growing increasingly dissatisfied with the GOP House but it’s rare that a party controlling the WH takes back the House in a midterm. I just wish people would realize that the House GOP doesn’t care about policy, it cares about rejecting Obama no matter what he does. It’s to the point where you’d want the House that pretty much rubber stamped everything Bush did or the one that impeached Clinton. That’s how bad the last two Congresses have been.

416 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:47:38pm

re: #411 HappyWarrior

Was Lindbergh permanently damaged by his Pro-Hitler attitude in the late 30’s to early 40’s?

I don’t care that he crossed the Atlantic, the crap he said later was toxic.

417 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:48:35pm


embedding a tweet, cuz I want to try.

418 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:48:38pm

re: #352 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Surf, cycle and jump!

I love the one near the end with the two skateboarders.

419 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:48:44pm

re: #416 ProTARDISLiberal

Was Lindbergh permanently damaged by his Pro-Hitler attitude in the late 30’s to early 40’s?

I don’t care that he crossed the Atlantic, the crap he said later was toxic.

I don’t think so. I really need to read more about America First though. It was a strange movement of leftists, the old right, etc.

420 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:49:47pm

OUTRAGE!

421 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:49:49pm

Oh fuck you, Randy, and your stupid understanding of the Constitution and what you think the founders “thought”.

422 Bulworth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:50:13pm

Sorry to go OT but did Anthony Weiner officially drop out of the NYC Mayor’s race? He seems to have vanished.

423 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:50:43pm

re: #422 Bulworth

Sorry to go OT but did Anthony Weiner officially drop out of the NYC Mayor’s race? He seems to have vanished.

NYC should be so lucky. =P

424 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:50:44pm
425 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:50:57pm

re: #421 Justanotherhuman

Oh fuck you, Randy, and your stupid understanding of the Constitution and what you think the founders “thought”.

He’s trying to play the “I know what the Founders would do because I play Ouija board with the founders when I’m not jacking off to Neo-Confederate bullshit,” isn’t he? His father plays the same game.

426 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:51:05pm

re: #419 HappyWarrior

I don’t think so. I really need to read more about America First though. It was a strange movement of leftists, the old right, etc.

Lindbergh’s reputation took a hit as a result, but that was once the US got formally involved in WW2.

427 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:52:16pm

re: #426 Dr Lizardo

Lindbergh’s reputation took a hit as a result, but that was once the US got formally involved in WW2.

The Des Moines speech. Wow what a piece of work. Henry Ford was even more toxic though- publishing the Protocols as if they were real.

428 psddluva4evah  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:52:42pm

Point Kerry!

429 Dr. Matt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:53:37pm

Sleeping Cat Tricks Dog

Youtube Video

430 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:53:44pm
431 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:53:51pm

re: #428 psddluva4evah

Point Kerry!

[Embedded content]

But Rand wants to play Ouija with Thomas Jefferson so Thomas Jefferson can tell him that he would approve of Rand’s primitive ideology.

432 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:54:35pm

re: #419 HappyWarrior

The reason I think of them right now is that I was hit by a realization that my dad is very close to them in thought.

Maybe it is just me, but why are engineers so prone to being reactionary. I know Babuskha here is quite progressive, an exception to the rule, but most that I have met have been nasty, reactionary, know-it-alls.

433 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:54:38pm

re: #421 Justanotherhuman

Oh fuck you, Randy, and your stupid understanding of the Constitution and what you think the founders “thought”.

Well, the founders thought that a small, lightly populated country with little or no military, which had just by luck succeeded in winning its independence should keep its head down so that more powerful nations didn’t use it as a pawn in their global power struggles, so this obviously means the most powerful nation on the face of the earth should adopt an isolationist foreign policy.

This is just like how a nation without a standing army needs its citizenry trained in small arms, and with access to such, so every Tom, Dick, and Harry can own all the AR15s they can afford and carry as many concealed handguns as they can lift.

434 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:54:51pm

The irony though is for all their proclaimed love of the Constitution, I think guys like Paul and his father would have been against ratification. They would have wanted to keep the Articles of Confederation.

435 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:56:25pm

re: #427 HappyWarrior

The Des Moines speech. Wow what a piece of work. Henry Ford was even more toxic though- publishing the Protocols as if they were real.

Oh, man……Henry Ford. My dad told me about that when I was young. I was floored, to be honest; my dad called him a “…crazy old Jew-hater” and said that it proved that just because someone is successful in an endeavor doesn’t mean they’re some kind of genius to be followed to the ends of the earth.

436 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:56:41pm

re: #420 Lidane

OUTRAGE!

[Embedded content]

This woman is good. This is from 3 hours ago:

437 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:57:11pm

re: #432 ProTARDISLiberal

The reason I think of them right now is that I was hit by a realization that my dad is very close to them in thought.

Maybe it is just me, but why are engineers so prone to being reactionary. I know Babuskha here is quite progressive, an exception to the rule, but most that I have met have been nasty, reactionary, know-it-alls.

I haven’t known too many engineers. Thing about American First is I think and this is by no means a justification of the appeasement in the days leading up to the German invasion of Poland but I think a lot of people were truly wary of war after WWI just like I think many are after Afghanistan and Iraq. That’s my take on it though.

438 thedopefishlives  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:57:44pm

re: #432 ProTARDISLiberal

The reason I think of them right now is that I was hit by a realization that my dad is very close to them in thought.

Maybe it is just me, but why are engineers so prone to being reactionary. I know Babuskha here is quite progressive, an exception to the rule, but most that I have met have been nasty, reactionary, know-it-alls.

Engineering is a very cause-and-effect driven set of disciplines. As wide-ranging as the fields of engineering are, it’s all a strictly logical progression. It’s hard for us engineers to see in shades of grey.

439 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:58:08pm
440 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:58:34pm

re: #438 thedopefishlives

Engineering is a very cause-and-effect driven set of disciplines. As wide-ranging as the fields of engineering are, it’s all a strictly logical progression. It’s hard for us engineers to see in shades of grey.

Linear thinking…

441 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 2:59:22pm

re: #435 Dr Lizardo

Oh, man……Henry Ford. My dad told me about that when I was young. I was floored, to be honest; my dad called him a “…crazy old Jew-hater” and said that it proved that just because someone is successful in an endeavor doesn’t mean they’re some kind of genius to be followed to the ends of the earth.

It’s crazy. I think about his rabid racism as much as his contributions via the automobile and assembly line. He made his own grave there though.

442 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:00:25pm

How many of you who voted no or undecided would say okay if the chemical attacks resumed?

444 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:03:14pm

re: #443 Charles Johnson

McCain playing poker on his iPhone during the hearing.

Glad McCain takes his job seriously. What an ass.

445 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:03:20pm

re: #437 HappyWarrior

I haven’t known too many engineers. Thing about American First is I think and this is by no means a justification of the appeasement in the days leading up to the German invasion of Poland but I think a lot of people were truly wary of war after WWI just like I think many are after Afghanistan and Iraq. That’s my take on it though.

I think that’s very true. Europe had been having wars every generation or two for as long as anyone could remember, and this seemed like just one more. Add to that the real horror of WWI - in many ways, although the death tolls were so much higher in WWII, WWI was more horrific. The slaughter in the trenches was meaningless, random, pointless, and seemed to go on interminably, unlike any war Europe had experienced. No winners and losers, just the dead and maimed.

Then there’s the natural insularity of American thinking from 1776 till the end of WWII, and it’s no surprise there was reluctance to get involved.

446 allegro  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:04:28pm

re: #442 Political Atheist

How many of you who voted no or undecided would say okay if the chemical attacks resumed?

OOooo, let’s play Emotional Blackmail!

447 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:05:41pm

re: #443 Charles Johnson

McCain playing poker on his iPhone during the hearing.

It’s a secret code. It just looks like poker.

448 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:06:05pm

re: #446 allegro

OOooo, let’s play Emotional Blackmail!

Not really. I believe it’s a legitimate question. How many chemical attacks does it take before it reaches tipping point?

449 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:06:25pm

Dudebros…following Randy too closely, obviously.

Christopher Hayes ‏@chrislhayes 40m

Have I missed what explicit legal authority WH is claiming to strike w/o congress?
Retweeted by Glenn Greenwald

450 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:06:31pm

re: #442 Political Atheist

I am going to love the answers to this.

It will be full of writing of people trying to be empathetic, while not giving a damn. I guarantee at least a third of these people act like those in this Dr. Suess Political Cartoon.

451 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:07:49pm

re: #450 ProTARDISLiberal

I am going to love the answers to this.

It will be full of writing of people trying to be empathetic, while not giving a damn. I guarantee at least a third of these people act like those in this Dr. Suess Political Cartoon.

That’s really unfair and not helpful to the discussion/debate.
Just my humble opinion.

452 Lidane  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:07:54pm

re: #442 Political Atheist

How many of you who voted no or undecided would say okay if the chemical attacks resumed?

I voted undecided, but I also see the need for a response. I voted undecided because I’m not sure what the best course of action is here, given the fact that we don’t like most of the factions at play.

This isn’t a decision I would want to make.

453 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:08:03pm

re: #446 allegro

OOooo, let’s play Emotional Blackmail!

Not my intent at all. Scale matters, in a very non emotional way.
There are those that opposed a strike in March but are ok with it now. I’m just extending the scenario.

454 allegro  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:08:04pm

re: #448 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not really. I believe it’s a legitimate question. How many chemical attacks does it take before it reaching tipping point?

And how many bombs dropped and civilian casualties are acceptable? How much “mission creep” is acceptable and at what cost to the Syrian people as well as the US?

We can play this game all day.

455 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:08:22pm

re: #445 GeneJockey

I think that’s very true. Europe had been having wars every generation or two for as long as anyone could remember, and this seemed like just one more. Add to that the real horror of WWI - in many ways, although the death tolls were so much higher in WWII, WWI was more horrific. The slaughter in the trenches was meaningless, random, pointless, and seemed to go on interminably, unlike any war Europe had experienced. No winners and losers, just the dead and maimed.

Then there’s the natural insularity of American thinking from 1776 till the end of WWII, and it’s no surprise there was reluctance to get involved.

The Onion’s Our Dumb History actually touched on that a little about how four inches was heroically gained. As I said, it’s easy and I even agree with the consensus to criticize the 30’s policymakers for appeasement but I can see why people didn’t want a second war especially after they thought they had seen the supposed war to end all wars not to mention the scale of devastation that said war had. I just hope that Obama, Kerry, Hagel, and all them handle this decision with the utter most care. I trust them though. Hagel and Kerry know what war is and I think Obama is more wise than foolish.

456 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:08:48pm

re: #454 allegro

And how many bombs dropped and civilian casualties are acceptable? How much “mission creep” is acceptable and at what cost to the Syrian people as well as the US?

We can play this game all day.

But, sadly, it’s not a game.

457 EPR-radar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:09:34pm

re: #450 ProTARDISLiberal

I am going to love the answers to this.

It will be full of writing of people trying to be empathetic, while not giving a damn. I guarantee at least a third of these people act like those in this Dr. Suess Political Cartoon.

Speaking as an undecided, my main reason for not favoring action is the low probability that a US-only intervention will have a net positive outcome all around (i.e., net effect in at least Syria and the US).

458 Political Atheist  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:09:37pm

re: #448 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not really. I believe it’s a legitimate question. How many chemical attacks does it take before it reaches tipping point?

Thank you.

459 allegro  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:09:45pm

re: #456 Backwoods_Sleuth

But, sadly, it’s not a game.

THIS!!!

460 calochortus  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:09:52pm

re: #448 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not really. I believe it’s a legitimate question. How many chemical attacks does it take before it reaching tipping point?

It’s not so much a matter of tipping point in my mind, but how in the world can we know what response will have the best results out of a plethora of very possible bad outcomes?
The tipping point might apply to the concept of having other countries doing something other than offering to hold our coat, metaphorically speaking.

461 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:10:00pm
With an average of almost 5,000 Syrians fleeing into neighbouring countries every day, the need to significantly increase humanitarian aid and development support to host communities has reached a critical stage.

When the country is empty, then we can go in there and _______________.

462 AlexRogan  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:11:25pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

I’d support an exfiltration of Assad to stand trial for crimes against humanity: GET HIM TO THE HAGUE.

Is that like Get Him to the Greek?

/

463 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:12:11pm

re: #462 AlexRogan

Is that like Get Him to the Greek?

/

Syrian Child.

464 Tigger2  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:12:46pm

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

Erick the real members of the Death Panel are you and the people like you that want to get rid of Obamacare, You all would be responsible for several deaths if you all kill Obamacare.

465 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:14:26pm

re: #450 ProTARDISLiberal

Bullshit. And really unfair.

I voted no. Our involvement in their civil war is going to backfire. What if it starts a full fledged war in the region?

Why in the hell is the answer to everything in the Middle East military action? I get it, Assad is murdering his own people, including children and it’s wrong and it sucks and it’s disgusting. How is lobbing missiles into Syria going to stop that? I’d like to know how that works.

Edit to add: Note I didn’t say we should do nothing, just that I’m not a fan of lobbing rockets or engaging militarily in Syria. Those are not the only options.

466 BongCrodny  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:15:20pm

My apologies if this has been linked to already, but I thought it useful.

The Washington Post has a chart of where each Congresscritter stands on Syria, broken down by party. Each circle represents a particular member of Congress, and a dot in the middle indicates a quote that Senator or Congressman has made.

Where the votes stand on Syria

467 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:19:15pm

re: #466 BongCrodny

My apologies if this has been linked to already, but I thought it useful.

The Washington Post has a chart of where each Congresscritter stands on Syria, broken down by party. Each circle represents a particular member of Congress, and a dot in the middle indicates a quote that Senator or Congressman has made.

Where the votes stand on Syria

Very useful. See my guy is likely to vote no. I’m actually surprised even if he’s an R since I thought he’d buy the human rights angle- when Frank Wolf spoke at my school years ago, he talked about Sudan and the need to do something there. Even brought up a book on genocide by now Obama adviser, Samantha Powers.

468 ericblair  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:20:38pm

re: #440 Justanotherhuman

Linear thinking

No, don’t think so. In engineering you’ve got more opportunities for lateral problem-solving than in a lot of other disciplines. However, for most engineers, it’s a technical discipline that uses science but doesn’t explicitly rely on the scientific method, so any modern flat earth society can grab a couple of wingnut engineers and yell “SCIENCE!”

469 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:20:42pm

re: #447 wrenchwench

It’s a secret code. It just looks like poker.

NSA encryption!

470 ObserverArt  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:24:38pm

re: #442 Political Atheist

How many of you who voted no or undecided would say okay if the chemical attacks resumed?

Voted undecided because I want to hear the plans. I think you are jumping the gun on the undecided votes. Let’s just say I am leaning more yes than no, but if this comes off muddled and obviously a mess due to what happens with congress I may go no too.

471 EPR-radar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:25:35pm

re: #450 ProTARDISLiberal

I am going to love the answers to this.

It will be full of writing of people trying to be empathetic, while not giving a damn. I guarantee at least a third of these people act like those in this Dr. Suess Political Cartoon.

I gave a straight answer to this question above, but this is a really shitty way to make your point. Especially the pre-emptive slandering of fellow commenters here as not caring about dead children, as long as they are foreign dead children.

472 Targetpractice  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:28:14pm

re: #465 A Mom Anon

Bullshit. And really unfair.

I voted no. Our involvement in their civil war is going to backfire. What if it starts a full fledged war in the region?

Why in the hell is the answer to everything in the Middle East military action? I get it, Assad is murdering his own people, including children and it’s wrong and it sucks and it’s disgusting. How is lobbing missiles into Syria going to stop that? I’d like to know how that works.

Edit to add: Note I didn’t say we should do nothing, just that I’m not a fan of lobbing rockets or engaging militarily in Syria. Those are not the only options.

When this rebellion began, we stated our official policy was that Assad be removed from power. That was 2 years and 100,000 bodies ago. The same people standing in the way in the UN against military intervention have also fought sanctions, have fought against embargoes, and have fought against virtually any form of diplomatic solution.

473 EPR-radar  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:30:39pm

re: #468 ericblair

No, don’t think so. In engineering you’ve got more opportunities for lateral problem-solving than in a lot of other disciplines. However, for most engineers, it’s a technical discipline that uses science but doesn’t explicitly rely on the scientific method, so any modern flat earth society can grab a couple of wingnut engineers and yell “SCIENCE!”

Back in the day, I worked with some crusty engineer types, and one made the following observation: If an engineer does an experiment and the outcome is not as expected, the engineer has screwed up.

Makes perfect sense if an “experiment” is regarded as validating a design with a hardware test.

474 GeneJockey  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:32:33pm

re: #471 EPR-radar

I gave a straight answer to this question above, but this is a really shitty way to make your point. Especially the pre-emptive slandering of fellow commenters here as not caring about dead children, as long as they are foreign dead children.

Indeed. There are a number of really good reasons NOT to do this, like the fact that the opposition in Syria is not necessarily the folks you want running a country in such a strategically important place; the fact that you can’t just bomb the chemical weapons storage depots without gassing the surrounding areas; the fact that NOBODY besides France seems to be with us; the fact that the US bombing another Muslim nation is likely to inflame anti-American feeling EVEN THOUGH we’d be doing it ostensibly in support of the population; the fact that no matter how careful we are some civilians will be killed by us; and the danger of getting our foot stuck in the door.

It’s not something to be undertaken lightly, and in consequence not something to use to attack those who are reluctant.

475 sagehen  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:32:47pm

re: #384 HappyWarrior

She’s challenging Crapo.

no she’s not… Crapo is Idaho, she’s challenging Enzi.

476 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:34:05pm

re: #475 sagehen

no she’s not… Crapo is Idaho, she’s challenging Enzi.

Oops I meant Enzi. Sorry about that. Got my mountain state senators mixed up.

477 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:41:44pm

re: #474 GeneJockey

How many times have the other side offered any sort of aid alternatives?

So a number of peoples are against enforcing the CWC. What about alternatives are they suggesting to helping the refugees? Never hear a word about that. And to be honest, I have become more pessimistic.

Expect people to act the worst, and you’ll never be disappointed, or have your heart broken.

478 sagehen  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:41:49pm

re: #442 Political Atheist

How many of you who voted no or undecided would say okay if the chemical attacks resumed?

My vote for undecided was based on I’d like more specifics.

I’m sold on why to respond, not yet convinced on whether they’ve planned a useful and effective response.

(also, I’d like some non-military response at the same time — Jordan and Turkey are really strained trying to take care of all those refugees, surely we can send a few hundred planeloads of supplies?)

479 wrenchwench  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:45:46pm

re: #477 ProTARDISLiberal

Expect people to act the worst, and you’ll never be disappointed, or have your heart broken.

All that does is save every bit of disappointment for the very end.

480 AlexRogan  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:50:42pm

re: #185 b.d.

Note to all nutjobs: If the U.S.A. were a police state then you wouldn’t have seen Medea Benjamin today.

(((Unless you are a really real nutjob who think that she is a plant)))

“A plant? I thought they called people like you a “fruit”?”

/Clue

481 AlexRogan  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 3:57:15pm

re: #252 GeneJockey

The first episode of “WKRP”, with Johnny Fever playing the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, covering “You’re Having My Baby”.

Booger!!!

/

482 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 4:37:22pm

re: #448 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not really. I believe it’s a legitimate question. How many chemical attacks does it take before it reaches tipping point?

Logically, the moral tipping point is between 0 and 1. We’ve not been talking scale here.

483 prairiefire  Tue, Sep 3, 2013 7:46:20pm

re: #307 EPR-radar

They are too much of a cowardly nature. Besides, liberals have lots of guns, too.

484 Pygmalion  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:27:36am

Well, I’m new here, but war is like politics: you should go with the side that’s going to win because it is right. Like the civil war.

485 kerFuFFler  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:35:01am

re: #37 Kragar

Sarah Palin: ‘We’re bombing Syria … and I’m the idiot?’

No and yes.

McCain must be so proud….

486 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 12:30:37pm

re: #484 Pygmalion

Well, I’m new here, but war is like politics: you should go with the side that’s going to win because it is right. Like the civil war.

Welcome, hatchling.


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