Snowden: All Roads Lead to Wikileaks, and on to Russia

“Functionally an extension of Russian intelligence”
World • Views: 27,790

Here’s former NSA counterintelligence officer John Schindler on what we know so far about Edward Snowden’s shady connections to Wikileaks and Russian espionage: Snowden, NSA, and Counterintelligence.

All roads here lead to Wikileaks. We know that Snowden in late 2012 reached out to Glenn Greenwald and other members of the spy-ring - all of whom can be considered cut-outs for Wikileaks when not paid-up members - that stands behind the massive leaks. After making this contact, Ed took a contractor job with Booz Allen Hamilton to increase his access to NSA secrets. I’ve been stating for a while now that Wikileaks is functionally an extension of Russian intelligence; it’s become a minor meme as a few journalists have decided that such a scandalous viewpoint is worth considering.

Of course, for anyone versed in the ways of Russian intelligence, the notion that Wikileaks is a Moscow front that’s involved in anti-US espionage is about as controversial as, say, the notion that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. Running false flags, creating fake activist groups, using Western journalists and activists for deception purposes - this sort of thing is in the DNA of Russian intelligence going back to the 19th century and is second nature to them. They call espionage tradecraft konspiratsiya (conspiracy) for a reason.

Read the whole thing; lots of interesting details in here about Russian operations and strategies.

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353 comments
1 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:33:35pm

I think it’s time to follow the money. How much did the Russians pay Snowden to defect with intelligence? How much did they pay his handlers, like Glenn Greenwald?

2 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:33:41pm

Russia is not our friend.

?

3 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:34:14pm

re: #1 darthstar

I think it’s time to follow the money. How much did the Russians pay Snowden to defect with intelligence? How much did they pay his handlers, like Glenn Greenwald?

I agree. Who paid whom is going to tell the tale.

4 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:35:22pm
I’ve been stating for a while now that Wikileaks is functionally an extension of Russian intelligence;

Wow.

5 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:35:33pm

I don’t think its wrong to say Wikileaks is a criminal organization posing as journalists.

6 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:37:46pm

well they sure have a boatload of people convinced otherwise, whole lotta distrust of the Government (Thanks W!) out there….

7 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:37:53pm

I’m not jumping on the “Russians are the Enemy” bandwagon. If there is one.

Just thinking about it gives me a headache.

8 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:39:49pm

re: #2 FemNaziBitch

Russia is not our friend.

?

Because we don’t deserve such good freinds?

/

9 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:40:25pm

And of course, the Richmond Teabagger convention, in addition to calling McConnell, Boehner, and McCain “undocumented Democrats” went racist with Obama & Holder

10 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:41:04pm

re: #9 darthstar

The Tea Party still exists?

11 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:41:24pm

re: #7 FemNaziBitch

I’m not jumping on the “Russians are the Enemy” bandwagon. If there is one.

Just thinking about it gives me a headache.

Russia’s not an enemy in the same sense as during the Cold War. That’s for sure. But they’re not really friends either and their espionage systems are all still functioning.

12 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:41:29pm

re: #8 Sol Berdinowitz

Because we don’t deserve such good freinds?

/

Guess I’m just concerned with where this is going. …

If I’ve learned anything in my adulthood it’s that blanket labels aren’t helpful.

13 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:42:25pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Russia’s not an enemy in the same sense as during the Cold War. That’s for sure. But they’re not really friends either and their espionage systems are all still functioning.

How much of it is sanctioned by the “officially elected” government and how much of it is “rogue” (so to say)?

14 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:42:37pm

re: #7 FemNaziBitch

I’m not jumping on the “Russians are the Enemy” bandwagon. If there is one.

Just thinking about it gives me a headache.

They don’t have to be the enemy for them not to be our friend. Russia, that is to say Putin, sees an advantage in weakening the US. Russia becomes more important as a result.

15 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:43:16pm

re: #9 darthstar

And of course, the Richmond Teabagger convention, in addition to calling McConnell, Boehner, and McCain “undocumented Democrats” went racist with Obama & Holder

[Embedded content]

Nah, we threw in a white guy too, snicker snicker..

16 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:44:24pm

re: #14 GeneJockey

They don’t have to be the enemy for them not to be our friend. Russia, that is to say Putin, sees an advantage in weakening the US. Russia becomes more important as a result.

I can see that.

Guess I’m already so fed-up with the wingnuts, I don’t want to imagine where they will want to take this.

So many are trigger-happy.

17 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:45:09pm

re: #13 FemNaziBitch

How much of it is sanctioned by the “officially elected” government and how much of it is “rogue” (so to say)?

It depends on how much the kick back to Putin is.

18 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:45:43pm

Afternoon/evening Lizardim from the beautiful wild north country. So our useful idiots are either intentionally or unintentionally a part of the Russian intelligence apparatus; it’s a good thing the Cold War isn’t still on, is all I’m going to say. Although perhaps Putin thinks it still is. Nevertheless, I am sure he and Obama are going to have words over this issue before all is said and done. How go things among the front lines of the war on dudebros?

19 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:45:58pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

I wouldn’t call the Russians an “enemy”.

A countervailing geopolitical force that acts sometimes with, and sometimes opposed to, the United States depending on their own national and international interests and objectives.

20 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:46:05pm

re: #16 FemNaziBitch

I can see that.

Guess I’m already so fed-up with the wingnuts, I don’t want to imagine where they will want to take this.

So many are trigger-happy.

At this point, I think they’re so far gone, they’re OK with this as long as it brings down Obama.

21 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:46:45pm

re: #20 Kragar

At this point, I think they’re so far gone, they’re OK with this as long as it brings down Obama.

Anything to use as an excuse to bring the World Order to their liking.

22 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:46:48pm

I heard about this Canadian case, but wasn’t aware of the real details:

But what of the actual espionage losses caused by Ed Snowden? Context matters here, and although the U.S. media hardly covered it, readers of this blog are aware that last year saw the unfolding of a spy scandal in Canada that was simply vast in its implications. Canadian naval officer Jeffrey Delisle for nearly five years before his detection was regularly passing huge amounts of classified information to Russian military intelligence (GRU). Every month or so, Delisle would leave his desk in the intelligence fusion center in Halifax with a memory stick filled with top secret information to sell to the Russians.

Moreover, Delisle is a trained intelligence officer - unlike Snowden, who is no more than an IT guy with little if any operational intelligence experience - and it’s apparent that much of what he gave away to GRU was SIGINT from NSA and its Five Eyes partners (British GCHQ, Canadian CSEC, Australian DSD, New Zealand GCSB). The Russians seemed to have really cleaned up with this one, and despite efforts from ministers in Ottawa to downplay what Delisle did, Canadian senior intelligence officials have made clear that the case is without precedent in its damage and implications, far beyond Canada.

23 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:46:48pm

Just because someone isn’t shooting at you, it doesn’t make them a friend.

24 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:46:54pm

This isn’t surprising to me at all.

25 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:48:03pm

The opposite is probably true as well.

How much of our spy-game has been directed at doing the exact same thing to the Russians?

26 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:48:23pm
27 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:48:39pm

OFFFS

Fischer: White Christians Are The Victims Of Discrimination And Persecution

Youtube Video

28 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:49:08pm

re: #25 FemNaziBitch

The opposite is probably true as well.

How much of our spy-game has been directed at doing the exact same thing to the Russians?

We damn well better have been.

29 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:49:42pm

re: #27 Kragar

yeah, that’s how they ended up owning everything

30 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:49:49pm

re: #28 Kragar

We damn well better have been.

*sigh*

31 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:49:51pm

re: #21 FemNaziBitch

Anything to use as an excuse to bring the World Order to their liking.

That suggests a higher level of thought than I would generally credit them with. They simply hate anything that may threaten the privilege they enjoy, which they do not see as privilege. Obama represents to them the ultimate threat to that privilege.

32 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:50:57pm

re: #30 FemNaziBitch

*sigh*

You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

33 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:51:28pm
34 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:52:18pm

re: #32 GeneJockey

You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

I don’t know why anyone assumes there has to be a fight.

35 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:52:27pm

re: #26 darthstar

Aren’t we waiting for a Congressional vote?

36 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:53:31pm

It comes as stunning news to some people that national security sometimes involves stealing information don’t want other people want to keep secret, and that people are willing to engage in activities to hinder the ability of others to do.

37 teleskiguy  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:54:38pm

I watched The Daily Show last night and saw for the first time a preview of a movie called “The Fifth Estate.” *spit*

38 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:55:00pm

re: #35 freetoken

Aren’t we waiting for a Congressional vote?

Yes, but I believe this speech is to lay out to the American People why we need to go in and take out Assad’s chemical weapons and military infrastructure.

39 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:55:07pm

re: #36 Kragar

It comes as stunning news to some people that national security sometimes involves stealing information don’t want other people want to keep secret, and that people are willing to engage in activities to hinder the ability of others to do.

It’s not *stunning news*. It’s frustration that the individual’s involved have to play with people’s lives and livelihoods like bored children.

40 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:55:07pm

re: #27 Kragar

OFFFS

Fischer: White Christians Are The Victims Of Discrimination And Persecution

[Embedded content]

Well, of course they are, Bryan.

Clearly, Bryan, you and your ilk need to move to Russia, were you can breathe the sweet, fragrant air of freedom.

/

41 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:55:13pm

re: #34 FemNaziBitch

I don’t know why anyone assumes there has to be a fight.

Because to assume otherwise is foolish and naive.

42 erik_t  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:56:02pm

Information, after all, yearns to be free stolen and then sold to the highest bidder.

43 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:56:11pm

re: #38 Bubblehead II

Yes, but I believe this speech is to lay out to the American People why we need to go in and take out Assad’s chemical weapons and military infrastructure.

It’s always polite to make sure that the people you claim to be leading are on board with your actions. It’s also far easier to get them on board if they hear from you exactly why you think the action is necessary.

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:56:30pm

re: #14 GeneJockey

They don’t have to be the enemy for them not to be our friend. Russia, that is to say Putin, sees an advantage in weakening the US. Russia becomes more important as a result.

They are just redressing an imbalance that became quite extreme after the collapse of the USSR. Cannot blame them for pursuing what they perceive as their national interest.

Russian exceptionalism and all, you know…

45 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 2:57:17pm

re: #35 freetoken

Aren’t we waiting for a Congressional vote?

I think it’s more eleven dimensional chess. A military response is imminent. Suffice it to say this administration differs from the last in that they’re actually working on plan B and plan C and trying to have various responses at the ready depending on how the situation changes. This isn’t going to be “shock & awe America fuck yeah!”…I just hope whatever he’s planning works.

46 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:00:03pm

re: #34 FemNaziBitch

I don’t know why anyone assumes there has to be a fight.

There is an entire spectrum of alliance and conflict, from complete “Special Relationship”-type cooperation to outright shooting war, but the key thing is, each nation operates in its own perceived self-interest.

It is in Russia’s perceived self-interest for us to stumble, and to embarrass and/or weaken ourselves. Similarly, it is in Russia’s interest to know as much as possible about our intelligence-gathering methods and abilities.

It is in our self-interest not to let them cause us to stumble, or embarrass or weaken ourselves, and to prevent them from learning about our intelligence gathering. To do that, we need to know as much as possible about THEIR intelligence-gathering methods and abilities.

You don’t have to be shooting at each other to want the other not to succeed in all its goals.

47 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:01:32pm

re: #46 GeneJockey

You don’t have to be shooting at each other to want the other not to succeed in all its goals.

It would nice if, just once, all involved had adult goals.

48 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:02:23pm

I have to say, as a pretty damn adamant pacifist, I’m very conflicted with the Syria situation. No, I don’t want another war, but I also recognize that this country has been waging some kind of military exercise on another country non-stop since 1991 (Gulf War 1, 12 years of no-fly zones with at least one bombing sortie on Iraq every week during that period, Afghanistan, Bush’s war of choice in Iraq, Libya…and before that - Somalia, Grenada, Nicaragua, Viet Nam, Korea, WW2…find a 10 year span without a military conflict in the last century). It’s part of who we are as a country.

49 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:03:14pm

re: #48 darthstar

No one told you the New World Order was all war, 24/7?

50 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:04:26pm

re: #47 FemNaziBitch

It would nice if, just once, all involved had adult goals.

Your country is working on a new trade resource which could mean billions of dollars and jobs for your economy.

Your neighboring country is working on a project which could take all that away from you, but you don’t know for sure, and they don’t want to tell you the details, but it could mean economic ruin for your citizens and recession for you.

What is the adult goal for your government to have?

51 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:05:09pm

re: #50 Kragar

plausible deniability

52 erik_t  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:05:09pm

re: #46 GeneJockey

There is an entire spectrum of alliance and conflict, from complete “Special Relationship”-type cooperation to outright shooting war, but the key thing is, each nation operates in its own perceived self-interest.

You don’t yell at a dog for licking his posterior. He’s a dog. That’s what dogs do. It’s their nature.

On a related note, I do not consider Russia to be my enemy, but I do consider Snowden and his ilk to be my enemy.

53 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:05:44pm

re: #51 piratedan

plausible deniability

Exactly.

54 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:05:47pm

re: #47 FemNaziBitch

It would nice if, just once, all involved had adult goals.

Ah, therein lies the problem. Note that I said, perceived self-interest. Each nation chooses its leadership, one way or another, and that leadership is who determines what that nation thinks is its self-interest. Not every nation chooses adults to lead them.

For example - Putin, it seems to me, is an annoying little prick, longing for the good old days of parity with the US. But he’s the guy who determines what is and isn’t in Russia’s interest.

55 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:06:01pm

re: #19 Dr Lizardo

However, they are a nation that is weaker structurally. A good chunk of the Caucacus region is restive, and will fight to leave if/when Russia weakens because of dwindling Natural Gas supplies or prices.

56 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:06:16pm

I’ve thought from day one that this was some kind of operation to bring down the US government. The Russians are obviously involved on some level, but I think the story goes deeper than the Russians, as I fear there are enemies both foreign and domestic in play here. I keep going back to the speech Obama made about re-evaluating how US views and executes the “War on Terror”. The minute I heard that I knew he (and intel/military factions aligned with him) were sending a message, and I knew a firestorm would follow. If I recall correctly, all of the phony scandals suddenly appeared, followed by Glenn and Ed’s Excellent Adventure. I don’t think any of this is coincidence. And I think it’s all very scary. A powerful faction of industry and the military tried to bring Roosevelt down in the 30’s, but the general (Smedley Butler) who was engaged as a front person for the coup blew the whistle. It happened then, it can happen again. I will now take off my tinfoil hat and assume the fetal position.

57 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:06:16pm

I watched opportunity flush down the toilet when the old regime fell. All the talk I grew up with about them poor Russian people who we could help if only the communists fell. Regime fell and the people were left to the oligarchs. Another awakening moment of my youth.

58 erik_t  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:07:25pm

re: #56 urbanmeemaw

I will now take off my tinfoil hat

Better late than never.

59 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:07:42pm

re: #48 darthstar

There haven’t been any.

In the mid-1800’s, there were a handful of attacks in Japan and Korea, along with at least one attack on Sumatra.

60 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:08:05pm

re: #48 darthstar

You do bring together the otherwise disparate threads on Syria and Snowden.

In plying and extending our international prestige we, the US, have undertaken to be the world’s policeman.

The Russians have on the other hand played the role of opportunistic mercantilists - doing business everywhere and anywhere (such as Syria), including selling arms to any buyer with cash.

World Policeman (that’s us) also involves killing people, so it’s not an especially high piece of moral ground, IMO, so it’s not like we can really look down our noses at the Russians.

Yet we have tried to strengthen international institutions under the hope that bringing some sort of order to the world will minimize the chaos.

Are we willing to pay the price to continue doing this?

61 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:09:13pm

re: #57 Amory Blaine

I watched opportunity flush down the toilet when the old regime fell. All the talk I grew up with about them poor Russian people who we could help if only the communists fell. Regime fell and the people were left to the oligarchs. Another awakening moment of my youth.

For me it was the reaction to the collapse of Yugoslavia, or for that matter the USSR, by a number of ethnic groups. All those years of repression, and once it was lifted, it seemed like the first thing many could think to say, with their newfound freedom of expression, was “We don’t like THOSE GUYS!”

62 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:09:20pm

re: #55 ProTARDISLiberal

Who knows? Maybe we’ll all see some new countries born out of the Caucuses one day. Won’t be easy, as I doubt Mother Russia will be inclined to let them leave the nest.

63 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:09:31pm

re: #59 ProTARDISLiberal

There haven’t been any.

In the mid-1800’s, there were a handful of attacks in Japan and Korea, along with at least one attack on Sumatra.

Don’t forget the Banana Wars which lasted from 1898-1934.

64 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:09:44pm

re: #48 darthstar

I have to say, as a pretty damn adamant pacifist, I’m very conflicted with the Syria situation. No, I don’t want another war, but I also recognize that this country has been waging some kind of military exercise on another country non-stop since 1991 (Gulf War 1, 12 years of no-fly zones with at least one bombing sortie on Iraq every week during that period, Afghanistan, Bush’s war of choice in Iraq, Libya…and before that - Somalia, Grenada, Nicaragua, Viet Nam, Korea, WW2…find a 10 year span without a military conflict in the last century). It’s part of who we are as a country.

Bosnia
Kosovo

65 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:10:05pm

Speaking of policemen, I see George Zimmerman met yet another one:


George Zimmerman gets another speeding ticket

66 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:10:27pm

re: #56 urbanmeemaw

I’m not sure it was to bring down the government, it very well could have been done to confirm the data that the Canadian swiped for them, in case they had lingering doubts about the bounty that he provided for them… all of the noise with GG and Wiki has provided a nice cover for what was essentially a fast smash and grab and if it hurts the Obama administration well that’s a bonus.

It leaves us questioning ourselves and who we can trust and the ripples will be felt for a while yet….. perhaps it will have the benefit of getting the spies back in house and not done on a for profit basis, but it just shows that while the cold war may be over, it’s not as if there isn’t some chafing under Pax Americana.

67 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:11:33pm

re: #64 Decatur Deb

Bosnia
Kosovo

Yep. I knew I was missing a few.

68 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:13:02pm

bbl, dogs think they need to eat.

69 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:15:46pm

re: #68 FemNaziBitch

bbl, dogs think they need to eat.

Mine do that. Yesterday morning they tried to convince me they hadn’t been fed yet, preying on my uncaffeinated, befuddled morning state. Luckily, I thought to ask the wife if she’d fed them, before giving them a second breakfast.

Lyin’ bastards!

70 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:17:18pm

The media is dishonest with this shit too. We’re not invading Syria, or helping rebels or whatever. This is about enforcing international rules on WMD bans.

71 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:17:35pm

Remember this, California is a really big state with several nearly empty counties:


Calif. county votes for secession from state

Supervisors in a far Northern California county where residents are fed up with what they see as a lack of representation at the state capitol and overregulation have voted in favor of separating from the state.

The Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors voted 4-1 on Tuesday for a declaration of secession, the Record Searchlight of Redding reported (bit.ly ). The vote appears mostly symbolic since secession would require approval from the state Legislature and the U.S. Congress, but supporters say it would restore local control over decision making. They want other rural counties in Northern California and Southern Oregon to join them in the creation of a new state called the State of Jefferson.

“Many proposed laws are unconstitutional and deny us our God-given rights,” Gabe Garrison of Happy Camp said at the meeting. “We need our own state so we can make laws that fit our way of life.”

[…]

Residents of the majority-Republican Siskiyou County lobbied the board in August to consider secession, according to the Record Searchlight. In addition to a lack of representation in Sacramento, they cited concerns about water rights and a rural fire prevention fee.

[…]

Voters in some Colorado counties are also considering secession. The issue is on the ballot in at least three counties.

Secessionism is becoming an identity issue with the Republican party.

Lincoln is rolling in his grave.

72 Lidane  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:18:57pm

This is awesome. I wish we had more politicians here in the States that would do this:

A Pastor Asks A Politician Why He Supports Gay Marriage. It Seems He Wasn’t Prepared For His Reply.

Watch the whole thing. It’s amazing.

73 McSpiff  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:19:55pm

Its a nice offensive twist to the traditional KGB Trust Operations.

74 CuriousLurker  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:20:04pm

OT—LOL:

75 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:20:10pm

re: #71 freetoken

Remember this, California is a really big state with several nearly empty counties:

Calif. county votes for secession from state

The vote appears mostly symbolic since secession would require approval from the state Legislature and the U.S. Congress, but supporters say it would restore local control over decision making.

Secessionism is becoming an identity issue with the Republican party.

Lincoln is rolling in his grave.

In other words, more meaningless and insubstantial legislative bullshit, another thing becoming an identity issue for the GOP.

76 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:20:13pm

One thing is very clear: Post-communist Russia has reaped a harvest of useful idiots and fellow travelers in the west that its Soviet predecessor could only have dreamed about. Kremlin-backed RT.com is not only quoted as an authoritative source on right-wing and some lefty outlets, it is quoted as the ONLY authoritative source by many of them. In the old days anyone who quoted an official Soviet outlet as authoritative would have been laughed out of any forum in the US and Canada, including Communist Party meetings.
Libertarians in particular are susceptible to current Russian propaganda and I am wondering if it might be time to start considering them, in effect, a Russian Fifth Column. If this seems inflammatory or extreme, just ask them. They will cheerfully, even proudly, admit their preference for Putin and his regime over Obama and his. The magnitude of this is amazing and unprecedented, far exceeding any level of actual subversion seen during the Cold War. There are probably more libertarian conspiracy dupes in Lubbock County alone than there were communists in the whole country in the old days, literally.

77 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:22:07pm

re: #71 freetoken

Remember this, California is a really big state with several nearly empty counties:

Calif. county votes for secession from state

Secessionism is becoming an identity issue with the Republican party.

Lincoln is rolling in his grave.

Siskiyou county consists of Dunsmuir, Mt. Shasta, Weed, and Yreka. Grew up just south of there, know the area well…lots of ranchers and alfalfa fields - more cows than people. Some beautiful country, but the place definitely still lives in the “Reagan was a real cowboy” mind-set.

78 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:22:30pm

re: #71 freetoken

Remember this, California is a really big state with several nearly empty counties:

Calif. county votes for secession from state

Secessionism is becoming an identity issue with the Republican party.

Lincoln is rolling in his grave.

Siskiyou County - Population: 45,000/ Density 2.7/km2
Area - 16,440 km2

The county is about 5 times larger than Rhode Island, with about 1/20th of the population.

79 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:22:59pm

re: #72 Lidane

This is awesome. I wish we had more politicians here in the States that would do this:

A Pastor Asks A Politician Why He Supports Gay Marriage. It Seems He Wasn’t Prepared For His Reply.

Watch the whole thing. It’s amazing.

Man the part where he points out that the Bible says slavery is a natural condition. Teh look on the pastor’s face.

80 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:23:01pm

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel

Good exploitation of ideologues. Government bad mmkay=US gov bad.

81 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:24:27pm

re: #78 Kragar

Siskiyou County - Population: 45,000/ Density 2.7/km2
Area - 16,440 km2

The county is about 5 times larger than Rhode Island, with about 1/20th of the population.

But all the good dope is grown in the counties west of it (Humboldt and Mendocino)…and Trinity just to the southwest.

82 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:24:36pm

re: #64 Decatur Deb

I defend those two as justifiable.

re: #62 Dr Lizardo

I think we will. Russia simply has so many internal problem, that another crash will occur. I think you will see a small Caucasian Republic made up of Chechnya, Dagestan, and Ingushetia.

83 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:25:11pm

re: #72 Lidane

Rudd’s retort has been rolling around the internet for a couple of days now, though it seems to be gathering steam under various headlines.

However, as I linked to Denny Burke downstairs, the real fundamentalists would quickly point out holes in Rudd’s appeal. First, the idea of being “born gay” is still controversial. Secondly, even if true, one doesn’t have to act out all of one’s desires. Thirdly, the “slavery” issue is a non-sequitor as far as gay rights. Fourthly Rudd’s definition of “Christianity” is false.

And so forth.

84 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:25:25pm

re: #82 ProTARDISLiberal

I defend those two as justifiable.

I think we will. Russia simply has so many internal problem, that another crash will occur. I think you will see a small Caucasian Republic made up of Chechnya, Dagestan, and Ingushetia.

They were all justified by the justifiers who counted.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:26:37pm

re: #57 Amory Blaine

I watched opportunity flush down the toilet when the old regime fell. All the talk I grew up with about them poor Russian people who we could help if only the communists fell. Regime fell and the people were left to the oligarchs. Another awakening moment of my youth.

They replaced communism with unregulated free markets and capitalism and a general free-for-all, where the bullies were able to take advantage of the chaos and terrify the rest of the population.

86 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:27:07pm

Bible literalists should be held, against their will, to the literal words of the bible. It’s only fair.

87 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:27:43pm

re: #78 Kragar

Siskiyou County - Population: 45,000/ Density 2.7/km2
Area - 16,440 km2

The county is about 5 times larger than Rhode Island, with about 1/20th of the population.

I think that density figure is off. They’re much denser than that.

88 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:28:36pm

re: #69 GeneJockey

Mine do that. Yesterday morning they tried to convince me they hadn’t been fed yet, preying on my uncaffeinated, befuddled morning state. Luckily, I thought to ask the wife if she’d fed them, before giving them a second breakfast.

Lyin’ bastards!

Our cats are especially good at that, the thieving little furballs.

89 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:28:56pm

re: #77 darthstar

Siskiyou county consists of Dunsmuir, Mt. Shasta, Weed, and Yreka. Grew up just south of there, know the area well…lots of ranchers and alfalfa fields - more cows than people. Some beautiful country, but the place definitely still lives in the “Reagan was a real cowboy” mind-set.

Maybe they can apply to join the Russian Federation.
There is even a precedent. The Russian-American Company did establish some small settlements in northern California early in the 19th century.

90 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:29:14pm

Biblical literalists should start living like how they did in the Bible or otherwise shut up. The Bible says nothing about unregulated capitalism as a policy yet many pastors embrace that. I personally think it’s beyond foolish to use a 2000 year old Holy Book for means of deciding secular law especially one full of contradictions like the Bible.

91 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:29:43pm

re: #48 darthstar

Sadly, imho, we (the U.S.) are partially responsible for Assad’s use of chemical weapons against his own people. If we would have slapped Saddam down when he first used them against the Irainians and again when he used then against the Kurds, perhaps we wouldn’t be in the situation we are today.

At least this time around we have a President that isn’t willing to let such an egerious violation of International Law go unpunished.

92 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:31:02pm

re: #89 Shiplord Kirel

Maybe they can apply to join the Russian Federation.
There is even a precedent. The Russian-American Company did establish some small settlements in northern California early in the 19th century.

Yep…if you’re ever driving up Highway 1 along the coast, check out Fort Ross - that was a big Russian stronghold for many years…pretty awesome place, too, and there’s good abalone diving in the cove there as well.

93 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:32:27pm

re: #91 Bubblehead II

Instead, we waited until well after the fact, and everything incriminating had been disposed of, resulting in us coming up with egg on our faces when “chemical weapons” were used as a rationale for war.

94 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:32:40pm
95 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:32:46pm

re: #92 darthstar

Yep…if you’re ever driving up Highway 1 along the coast, check out Fort Ross - that was a big Russian stronghold for many years…pretty awesome place, too, and there’s good abalone diving in the cove there as well.

I would think an abalone would just sort of sink to the bottom like a rock. Plus, how long does it take them to get up to the spot they dive from?

96 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:33:47pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

I would think an abalone would just sort of sink to the bottom like a rock. Plus, how long does it take them to get up to the spot they dive from?

Lord, kelp me.

97 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:34:06pm

re: #91 Bubblehead II

Maybe 2 years ago, when Assad started massacring his own people, we should have maybe done something a little more than shrugging and saying “Gee, thats too bad”.

98 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:34:25pm
99 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:34:33pm

re: #70 Amory Blaine

The media is dishonest with this shit too. We’re not invading Syria, or helping rebels or whatever. This is about enforcing international rules on WMD bans.

^^THIS^^

There is OPCW and chemical weapons are banned.

Here’s the list of OPCW Member States.

Where are the rest of these countries on this issue? Where is the international commitment against use of chemical weapons?

100 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:35:43pm

re: #84 Decatur Deb

I think the mass murder and ethnic cleansing of Bosnians and Albanians deserved a very aggressive response.

When they try again in Bosnia, and they will, let’s keep that in mind.

101 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:35:53pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

I personally think it’s beyond foolish to use a 2000 year old Holy Book for means of deciding secular law especially one full of contradictions like the Bible.

And that is not the approach Rudd took.

What Rudd did was execute a fallacy - the No True Christian fallacy.

Rudd and that pastor are arguing over who is the True Christian.

Like with President Obama, Rudd doesn’t want to state the obvious - because politically, and they are politicians, they still have to cling to the general religious sentiment.

102 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:36:35pm

re: #98 Amory Blaine

Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

Just another shitty chapter in the shitty book that was the Reagan administration. This actually angers me. I mean the realpolitik in aiding Saddam against Iran is bad enough but aiding in the use of chemical weapons and then the Bush Administration which had many Reagan admin officials acting all puffy in the lead up to the war in Iraq about how Saddam had used chemical weapons and that was why he was evil. Agh.

103 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:36:44pm


His photography is fantastic. Not sure about his politics after looking at his tweets.

104 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:37:05pm

re: #96 darthstar

Lord, kelp me.

Think I sea anemone here.

105 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:37:49pm

re: #101 freetoken

And that is not the approach Rudd took.

What Rudd did was execute a fallacy - the No True Christian fallacy.

Rudd and that pastor are arguing over who is the True Christian.

Like with President Obama, Rudd doesn’t want to state the obvious - because politically, and they are politicians, they still have to cling to the general religious sentiment.

Right and that sucks but it’s the world we live in as you say.

106 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:38:18pm

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel

I think the reason glibertarian entrepreneurs love Russia so much is that they can make a lot of money there, bring in “American” stuff, just as McDonald’s or any other corp has done. And they don’t mind greasing the right palms to do it.

107 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:38:35pm

re: #72 Lidane

This is awesome. I wish we had more politicians here in the States that would do this:

A Pastor Asks A Politician Why He Supports Gay Marriage. It Seems He Wasn’t Prepared For His Reply.

Watch the whole thing. It’s amazing.

FemNaziBitch paged that earlier:

littlegreenfootballs.com

108 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:38:41pm

re: #93 thedopefishlives

Instead, we waited until well after the fact, and everything incriminating had been disposed of, resulting in us coming up with egg on our faces when “chemical weapons” were used as a rationale for war.

Yep. Thus making it that much harder for this President to make a case for military intervention. Hell, Kerry, Hagel and Gen. Dempsey were asked, point blank, are you telling us the truth or blowing smoke up our ass? in todays hearing.

109 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:41:12pm

re: #108 Bubblehead II

Yep. Thus making it that much harder for this President to make a case for military intervention. Hell, Kerry, Hagel and Gen. Dempsey were asked, point blank, are you telling us the truth or blowing smoke up our ass? in todays hearing.

And despite the fact that they’re on my ‘team’, there is no objective reason to believe them more than Cheney, Powell, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld.

110 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:42:18pm

re: #108 Bubblehead II

re: #109 Decatur Deb

I’m going to say it again: Foreign policy is HARD.

111 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:42:38pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

Think I sea anemone here.

There’s a tidal shift in current events.

112 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:43:36pm

re: #110 thedopefishlives

I’m going to say it again: Foreign policy is HARD.

Screw you guys, I’m going to have my own foreign policy… with hookers and black jack!

Oh wait, they’ve done that already.

Damn it.

113 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:43:41pm

re: #111 darthstar

There’s a tidal shift in current events.

I won’t take you littorally.

114 b.d.  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:44:12pm

[dudebro]if Russia isn’t our enemy then they wouldn’t be spying on us, because countries are only allowed to gather intelligence on their enemies[/dudebro]

115 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:45:20pm

re: #114 b.d.

And only then with full disclosures and transparency.

//

116 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:47:30pm

Boston Mayor Says He’d ‘Blow Up’ Detroit And Start Over

The mayor of Boston is drawing criticism for recent comments he made about Detroit.

In an interview with the New York Times, Mayor Thomas Menino was asked if he could live in any other city in America other than Boston, where would he choose.

He at first said he’d never thought of living in any other city, but then added: “Detroit is a place I’d love to go.”

When the reporter asked Menino what he’d do in Detroit, the mayor responded: “I’d blow up the place and start all over.”

117 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:49:44pm

re: #116 Amory Blaine

A wild jackass appears!

118 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:50:13pm

re: #116 Amory Blaine

Boston Mayor Says He’d ‘Blow Up’ Detroit And Start Over

Good thing he doesn’t have a destroyer task force in Lake Michigan.

119 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:50:25pm
120 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:51:26pm

re: #119 Gus

People trust that Natural News shit?

121 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:51:27pm
122 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:52:03pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Good thing he doesn’t have a destroyer task force in Lake Michigan.

Yes, but Idaho is looking at getting their own aircraft carrier, maybe they could loan it to him.///

123 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:52:28pm

re: #120 ProTARDISLiberal

People trust that Natural News shit?

The guy that runs it is some nutcase. But, science!

124 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:53:06pm

re: #116 Amory Blaine

Boston Mayor Says He’d ‘Blow Up’ Detroit And Start Over

Where’s Heywood when we really need him?

125 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:53:43pm

Do these people simply not understand dosages, safe usage, ingredients to chemical compounds, chemical manufacturing, anything at all?

Seriously? WTFing hell?

126 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:54:34pm

re: #125 Kragar

Do these people simply not understand dosages, safe usage, ingredients to chemical compounds, chemical manufacturing, anything at all?

Seriously? WTFing hell?

One word: Homeopathy. I believe that says it all.

127 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:55:35pm

re: #126 thedopefishlives

One word: Homeopathy. I believe that says it all.

Homeopathetic

128 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:55:37pm

It just occurred to me that RWNJs might be engaging in projection when they accuse Obama of plotting to bring in foreign troops to enforce his agenda.
Do they foresee the day when they might need Russian troops themselves because our own troops refuse to participate in President Cruz’s roundup of homosexuals and union agitators?

129 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:55:42pm

In 1990, before he forgot everything he learned in Vietnam, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Colin Powell produced his ‘doctrine’.

from Wiki:

“The Powell Doctrine states that a list of questions all have to be answered affirmatively before military action is taken by the United States:

Is a vital national security interest threatened?
Do we have a clear attainable objective?
Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?
Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?
Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?
Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?
Is the action supported by the American people?
Do we have genuine broad international support?


Note: It was cited on Freep last night.

130 Stephen T.  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:55:55pm

re: #125 Kragar

Remember, there have been calls for the banning of the dangerous chemical Dihydrogen monoxide.

131 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:56:10pm

re: #109 Decatur Deb

And despite the fact that they’re on my ‘team’, there is no objective reason to believe them more than Cheney, Powell, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld.

Well, they are in fact presenting a much more cogent and thoroughly backed up argument. I don’t think anybody seriously doubts that the UN inspectors are going to return anything but a finding that sarin was used, most likely by Assad’s forces.

132 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:56:59pm

re: #130 Stephen T.

Remember, there have been calls for the banning of the dangerous chemical Dihydrogen monoxide.

Thousands are killed by it every year.

133 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:58:20pm

re: #109 Decatur Deb

And despite the fact that they’re on my ‘team’, there is no objective reason to believe them more than Cheney, Powell, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld.

True. But you have to admitt that this Administration has at least declassified and released more information about the attack than they had too.

Pres. Obama knows that if he is going to convince the general American populace that we have to do this, he has to be up front and honest about it.

For the record though. I am against any direct U.S. involvment in this mess.

Let the M.E. Countries clean this mess up. Yes, we provide them with support, but no direct military intervention.

We have sold/given them how many billions of dollars im military hardware and training? Time for them to step up to the plate and police their own.

134 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:58:45pm

re: #119 Gus

Results for fluoride syria

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

135 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:58:47pm

re: #124 Vicious Babushka

Where’s Heywood when we really need him?

Sulking in a corner with the rest of the dudebros.

136 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 3:59:08pm

re: #131 goddamnedfrank

Well, they are in fact presenting a much more cogent and thoroughly backed up argument. I don’t think anybody seriously doubts that the UN inspectors are going to return anything but a finding that sarin was used, most likely by Assad’s forces.

How many Bushies said the same thing in 2003?

137 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:00:06pm

re: #130 Stephen T.

Remember, there have been calls for the banning of the dangerous chemical Dihydrogen monoxide.

Dihydrogen Monoxide weapon being used against civilians.

138 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:03:06pm

Each year, nearly 3,500 Americans drown as a result of the chemical, water.

Ban water!

//

139 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:03:11pm
140 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:03:19pm

re: #137 Shiplord Kirel

Dihydrogen Monoxide weapon being used against civilians.

Some groups even have their own stockpiles of weaponized Dihydrogen Monoxide.

141 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:03:50pm

re: #140 GeneJockey

IED

142 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:04:14pm

re: #132 Kragar

Thousands are killed by it every year.

if only god had given us gills…

143 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:04:34pm

re: #136 Decatur Deb

How many Bushies said the same thing in 2003?

How many videos did they have of triage units filled with twitching victims? In this case allies are actually independently corroborating the findings instead of just buying into them blindly. There’s incredulous and then there’s believing that France’s intelligence service under Hollande is faking evidence, the same NATO ally that flat out refused to back our venture into Iraq.

144 Bubblehead II  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:04:38pm

re: #122 thedopefishlives

Yes, but Idaho is looking at getting their own aircraft carrier, maybe they could loan it to him.///

Actually that was some other state. We have Submarines.

145 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:05:09pm

Wired, which of late has had a love-in with overly emotional headlines, throws out this scare mongering:

How Do You Map America’s Scary Shortage of Fresh Food?

In which they discover, as one commenter notes:

surprise surprise……grocery stores don’t exist where people don’t live.

146 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:05:53pm

re: #144 Bubblehead II

Actually that was some other state. We have Submarines.

Wyoming, then. It was one of the derpier western states (no offense; not like I can talk, either, being from the state that produced Michele Bachmann).

147 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:06:12pm

It’s funny how a movement that relied so much on chemicals in the late 60s is so fearful of chemicals today.

148 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:06:37pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

How many videos did they have of triage units filled with twitching victims? In this case allies are actually independently corroborating the findings instead of just buying into them blindly. There’s incredulous and then there’s believing that France’s intelligence service under Hollande is faking evidence, the same NATO ally that flat out refused to back our venture into Iraq.

Where are these allies of which you speak? Don’t hear the pounding of their boots or the roar of their engines.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:07:21pm

Nice car!

150 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:07:24pm

re: #139 NJDhockeyfan

Passive voice. Accused by whom?

151 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:07:38pm

re: #130 Stephen T.

Remember, there have been calls for the banning of the dangerous chemical Dihydrogen monoxide.

I’ve seen children drinking it!!! It’s in the food supplies!!!

152 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:08:01pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

And I still do not support intervention, but I think it’s important that we open our eyes. If we’re going to argue for inaction, as I do, then let’s do so while honestly assessing reality. The fact is that there are zero good options here, doing nothing does carry grave risks and sets an atrocious precedent.

153 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:08:46pm
154 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:09:10pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

How many videos did they have of triage units filled with twitching victims? In this case allies are actually independently corroborating the findings instead of just buying into them blindly. There’s incredulous and then there’s believing that France’s intelligence service under Hollande is faking evidence, the same NATO ally that flat out refused to back our venture into Iraq.

One of the big benefits of seeking Congressional authorization, IMO, is simply that it will take time.

That time will allow more evidence to be gathered, more time for action/inaction in the UN and Arab League to play out etc.

155 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:09:23pm

re: #153 darthstar

He’ll be replaced by a tea-partying atavist.

156 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:10:02pm

re: #148 Decatur Deb

Where are these allies of which you speak? Don’t hear the pounding of their boots or the roar of their engines.

France, Germany and the UK have all independently concluded that Assad used sarin. Arguing against intervention is fine, but you don’t need to bury your head in the sand to do it.

157 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:10:27pm

re: #152 goddamnedfrank

And I still do not support intervention, but I think it’s important that we open our eyes. If we’re going to argue for inaction, as I do, then let’s do so while honestly assessing reality. The fact is that there are zero good options here, doing nothing does carry grave risks and sets an atrocious precedent.

The precedent has been set. You’re closing the barn door after the ship has flown the station.

158 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:10:42pm

re: #155 freetoken

hell, he could be replaced by a cymbal smashing monkey toy and it would have about the same intellectual effect.

159 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:11:13pm

Contacted my rep just earlier to vote yes.

160 compound_Idaho  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:11:38pm

re: #144 Bubblehead II

Actually that was some other state. We have Submarines.

and nuclear powered jet engines.

ansidaho.org

161 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:11:40pm

re: #152 goddamnedfrank

And I still do not support intervention, but I think it’s important that we open our eyes. If we’re going to argue for inaction, as I do, then let’s do so while honestly assessing reality. The fact is that there are zero good options here, doing nothing does carry grave risks and sets an atrocious precedent.

Winner, winner chicken dinner! FINALLY!

I’ve gotten so tired of reading things on Facebook - invariably my siblings - acting like Syria is this peaceful place we just want to bomb because we’re bad people, and that if we don’t bomb then unicorns farting rainbows will prevail. And/Or that Obama’s just like Bush, that we’re making it up about the chemical weapons as an excuse because we REALLY WANT to attack yet another Muslim country, since it’s worked out so well before.

162 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:11:47pm

re: #158 piratedan

hell, he could be replaced by a cymbal smashing monkey toy and it would have about the same intellectual effect.

My favorite metaphor for the House GOP is an overfull cage of poo-flinging monkeys at a poorly run zoo.

163 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:12:55pm

re: #162 EPR-radar

My favorite metaphor for the House GOP is an overfull cage of poo-flinging monkeys at a poorly run zoo.

Not poorly run for the monkeys since they are well fed and have good medical coverage!
/

164 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:13:19pm

Eek. My better half is making me move furniture and I’m fresh out of excuses.

165 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:13:46pm

re: #164 Amory Blaine

Eek. My better half is making me move furniture and I’m fresh out of excuses.

PEWPEWPEW.
Shot your legs.
NEXT!

166 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:13:50pm

All Teh Foods has been made and tasted.

167 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:13:55pm

re: #156 goddamnedfrank

France, Germany and the UK have all independently concluded that Assad used sarin. Arguing against intervention is fine, but you don’t need to bury your head in the sand to do it.

My head is contemplating another fucking war where we are victim and villain, working without allies, and accomplishing nothing but the churning of chaos.

168 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:14:17pm

re: #163 Feline Fearless Leader

Not poorly run for the monkeys since they are well fed and have good medical coverage!
/

If they were less well fed they’d have less ammunition for poo-flinging. Perhaps if we reduced their fiber intake, and loaded them up with cheese…..

169 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:15:52pm

Putin says the chemical attack was from a homemade bomb. Later he is selling the Brooklyn Bridge.

170 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:16:47pm

Nothing like homemade sarin!

171 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:17:43pm

re: #155 freetoken

He’ll be replaced by a tea-partying atavist.

I just want him and his primary opponent so damaged we get an extra seat in the general. Mitch McConnell will get a fat paycheck for a couple of years as a lobbyist, until everyone realizes he’s just an annoying shit-heel of a human being. Then he’ll retire.

172 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:19:54pm

re: #168 GeneJockey

If they were less well fed they’d have less ammunition for poo-flinging. Perhaps if we reduced their fiber intake, and loaded them up with cheese…..

send them to France Immediately!

173 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:20:32pm

re: #169 NJDhockeyfan

I say we send Putin to Syria’s front lines.

I think the “Manly Man” would wet himself in minutes. He is the ultimate dudebro.

174 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:20:46pm

Seriously Russia, this sarin attack in Syria was very potent, not like the homemade stuff Aum Shinrikyo used on the Tokyo Metro attack.

175 darthstar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:21:56pm

re: #173 ProTARDISLiberal

I say we send Putin to Syria’s front lines.

Shirtless.

I think the “Manly Man” would wet himself in minutes. He is the ultimate dudebro.

Yep.

176 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:25:18pm
177 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:25:39pm

Completely OT as I got sucked down a tempest in a teapot in another group, but I found this line from a discussion on ideological writings in science fiction and fantasy (as related to John Ringo’s works) to be an utter hoot:

Also, Libertarian authors are, for the most part, constitutionally incapable of lecturing an audience on merely one political question; they want to convince you on all of them, and all at once.

178 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:26:24pm

re: #169 NJDhockeyfan

Putin says the chemical attack was from a homemade bomb. Later he is selling the Brooklyn Bridge.

[Embedded content]

was it in a pressure cooker?

179 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:26:56pm

really weird that teabaggers and the left are on the same side re syria and nsa as opposed to old skool republicans and corporate democrats

i can’t say i’m 100% comfortable with it

180 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:27:02pm

re: #177 klys

Completely OT as I got sucked down a tempest in a teapot in another group, but I found this line from a discussion on ideological writings in science fiction and fantasy (as related to John Ringo’s works) to be an utter hoot:

Like John (met him personally) but don’t care for his politics, but he does write a helluva good story in the best Campbellian traditions….

181 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:28:57pm

re: #179 dog philosopher

really weird that teabaggers and the left are on the same side re syria and nsa as opposed to old skool republicans and corporate democrats

i can’t say i’m 100% comfortable with it

Well it’s not SSDD.

182 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:30:08pm

Hey, look! Another argument against Charter Schools.

A father in Oklahoma said this week that he was forced to pull his daughter out of classes after the charter school she was attending sent her home for having the wrong hairstyle.

Seriously.

I am against Charter Schools, Private Schools, and Homeschooling.

Public Education only.

183 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:30:34pm

A Good Sweet Year to all my Green Scaly Friends!

Enjoy the PIE!

And the Strudel!!

184 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:30:47pm

re: #181 Decatur Deb

Well it’s not SSDD.

mebbe more like Same Shit, Screwed Around 180 Degrees With Ketchup On Top

185 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:31:01pm

re: #180 piratedan

Like John (met him personally) but don’t care for his politics, but he does write a helluva good story in the best Campbellian traditions….

He’s currently bitching about John Scalzi winning the Hugo for best novel this year, and saying that he only got it because he’s been a somewhat visible presence in the discussion on gender issues in the scifi/fantasy world.

And then he said all women were born victims (in a Facebook thread about the above topic) and I kind of moved his name off the will-ever-pay-for-his-books list.

186 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:31:56pm

Dogwalk. BBL

187 GeneJockey  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:32:11pm

re: #182 ProTARDISLiberal

Hey, look! Another argument against Charter Schools.

Seriously.

I am against Charter Schools, Private Schools, and Homeschooling.

Public Education only.

All generalizations suck.
//

As the parent of a Special Needs child, for whom no Public School classroom would have been a good fit, I must disagree.

188 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:32:44pm

A little hot now. Heating pad on neck. If I stop typing tell my mom I love her.

//

189 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:33:32pm

re: #185 klys

like I said, hate his politics…. if it hadn’t been Scalzi, I was hoping that Bujold would have won it…..

190 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:35:31pm

Spring is almost here. Just not here.

191 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:36:02pm

re: #187 GeneJockey

And the other three starve public schools of money, and two of them can be pathways to radicalization (Homeschooling and Private School.)

192 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:36:18pm
193 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:37:16pm
Montana prosecutors on Wednesday decided to appeal a 30-day jail sentence given to a former teacher who admitted to raping a 14-year-old student.

District Judge G. Todd Baugh unleashed a firestorm of criticism when he issued the lenient sentence saying that the victim, who later committed suicide, “seemed older than her chronological age.”

The former teacher, Stacey Dean Rambold, 54, has already begun serving his sentence.

npr.org

194 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:38:26pm

Some fresh news coming out of the Alexis Murphy investigation. They found her phone the other day so it looks like Randy Taylor is not going to leave jail any time soon.

195 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:38:34pm

re: #177 klys

Completely OT as I got sucked down a tempest in a teapot in another group, but I found this line from a discussion on ideological writings in science fiction and fantasy (as related to John Ringo’s works) to be an utter hoot:

The “Oh, John Ringo, NO!” material was amazing. It was as if the Bulwer Lytton contest now accepted book-length entries.

196 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:38:36pm

re: #189 piratedan

like I said, hate his politics…. if it hadn’t been Scalzi, I was hoping that Bujold would have won it…..

I would have been happy with her as well, or Mira Grant.

197 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:39:46pm

re: #177 klys

Completely OT as I got sucked down a tempest in a teapot in another group, but I found this line from a discussion on ideological writings in science fiction and fantasy (as related to John Ringo’s works) to be an utter hoot:

Would someone explain to me why these supposedly libertarian writers are all such keen Monarchists? Ringo’s especially bad about his love of kings.

If it weren’t for Lois McMaster Bujold I’d probably not ready anything from Baen anymore.

198 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:39:56pm
199 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:42:09pm

re: #197 William Barnett-Lewis

Would someone explain to me why these supposedly libertarian writers are all such keen Monarchists? Ringo’s especially bad about his love of kings.

If it weren’t for Lois McMaster Bujold I’d probably not ready anything from Baen anymore.

No idea. But I do love me some Bujold.

200 A Mom Anon  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:42:57pm

re: #187 GeneJockey

Public school served us incredibly well. Until 7th grade. It fell apart and I could kick myself(and do daily) for not pulling my son out of there and doing anything else. I get teary eyed just admitting that. We’ve hit the wall and trying to figure out what to do next has me stumped. There was no transition from school to work, we were promised things that have now been defunded with no alternatives.

And then there’s the issue of many(not all, but many) charter schools taking public funding(and often publicly built buildings) and funneling to private companies. While they charge parents a small fortune for schools that often do not deliver better results than public schools.

The system should go old school to some degree. We produced engineers and scientists that were the envy of most of the world at one time. What happened? We have the means to do better, for all kids of all abilities,there’s just no will to do it. It sucks, and it pisses me off.

201 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:48:01pm
202 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:49:07pm

re: #200 A Mom Anon

The Muslim community in Denver cemented my weariness of private schools. You would not believe have many bumper stickers for GuideUS TV (Muslim equivalent to CBN) I have seen.

Put more money to Public Schools.

203 Bear  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:49:12pm

You may enjoy these pictures. dailymail.co.uk

204 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:50:08pm

Obama won’t talk with Putin, now a GOP leader turned him down too. All he’s got left is Ron Paul.

205 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:50:54pm


Look who’s bowing.

206 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:53:53pm

re: #197 William Barnett-Lewis

Eric Flint is also a DFH and Weber, while loved by the Libertarians isn’t really one based on what I’ve read on his personal profiles.

As for Ringo, he’s straight out of the Campbellian/Piper school of the self reliant man who dispenses justice and wisdom as he sees fit…..

207 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:54:04pm

Sad this question even has to be asked:

Should everyone have the right to a break during a work day?

At my last retail job, my manager and assistant manager regularly worked full days with no breaks, as did a few of my coworkers. I usually made a point to take my break because hey, I like to eat and sit down for a few minutes after standing for 5 plus hours straight.

Even if it’s just 15 minutes, it’s still nice to have and for me, it’s more than just about rest: It’s a chance to eat and drink a little, catch my breath and gather myself together mentally to face the next part of the day.

Heck even when I am working hard on a project at home I take a break every few hours. I find I am more productive that way.

208 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:54:49pm

re: #207 Eclectic Cyborg

I think the person asking that question should go first.

209 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:54:53pm
210 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:55:05pm

re: #205 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]


Look who’s bowing.

Oh snap!

211 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:55:51pm

re: #206 piratedan

DFH?

212 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:56:15pm
213 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:56:24pm

re: #211 William Barnett-Lewis

DFH - dirty fucking hippy

214 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:56:43pm
215 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:57:33pm

re: #214 Gus

not enough palms for all of the faces…..

216 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:57:54pm

Oh man, Jon Stewart, I love you.

So much…

217 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:58:33pm

Ted Yoho on Hardball, pathetic. Chris: “Are you a birther?” Ted: “No comment.”

Typical GOP bigot. Knew this was coming after he said we should “move past” the issue, not that he’d rejected the argument. What a fucking puss.

218 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:58:35pm

Holy shit what a moran.

219 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:59:07pm

re: #197 William Barnett-Lewis

Would someone explain to me why these supposedly libertarian writers are all such keen Monarchists? Ringo’s especially bad about his love of kings.

If it weren’t for Lois McMaster Bujold I’d probably not ready anything from Baen anymore.

Benevolent monarchs are “good” leadership without the icky politics of selecting him and having him being forced to compromise and coalition build in order to rule. And since said monarch properly trains his offspring you get a default good follow-on ruler.

Pretty much completely missing how monarchy has worked out historically.

220 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 4:59:56pm

Oh look. Los Alamos county doesn’t need to be punished.

On Wednesday, a district court judge upheld a ruling making Los Alamos the eighth county statewide to allow same-sex marriage.

The question was whether the state legislature-issued marriage application, which said “male or female” and “bride or groom”, meant the county couldn’t issue licenses to couples with two men or two women.

Cheered on by supporters, a district court judge ruled the clerk can and should issue marriage licenses to all same sex couples that qualify.

[…]

221 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:00:42pm

re: #207 Eclectic Cyborg

Sad this question even has to be asked:

Should everyone have the right to a break during a work day?

At my last retail job, my manager and assistant manager regularly worked full days with no breaks, as did a few of my coworkers. I usually made a point to take my break because hey, I like to eat and sit down for a few minutes after standing for 5 plus hours straight.

Even if it’s just 15 minutes, it’s still nice to have and for me, it’s more than just about rest: It’s a chance to eat and drink a little, catch my breath and gather myself together mentally to face the next part of the day.

Heck even when I am working hard on a project at home I take a break every few hours. I find I am more productive that way.

this guy comes up to me on the street and asks me ‘can i get break?’

so i broke him

222 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:01:26pm

re: #213 piratedan

DFH - dirty fucking hippy

Ah. I agreed with the Weber comment but wasn’t sure where that fit in. Weber is actually pretty good though I’m tired as bleep of Honor. Had he ended it ala original plan (Nelson at Trafalgar w/ same exit stage left for Honor) I’d have been happier.

223 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:03:21pm

re: #219 Feline Fearless Leader

Sure, but Monarchism is fundamentally incompatible with Libertarianism. Sigh…

224 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:03:38pm

re: #222 William Barnett-Lewis

Ah. I agreed with the Weber comment but wasn’t sure where that fit in. Weber is actually pretty good though I’m tired as bleep of Honor. Had he ended it ala original plan (Nelson at Trafalgar w/ same exit stage left for Honor) I’d have been happier.

There are very few series that can sustain themselves >7 books.

I’m still thinking of one that has worked for me. Perhaps maybe Bujold.

225 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:04:32pm

re: #214 Gus

@msnbc @hardball_chris Rep Ted Yoho (R) FL. Just said on Hardball - RE: WW-II - “Our allies Germany and France were attacked”

That can’t be. Doesn’t he know Germany bombed Pearl Harbor?

226 blueraven  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:05:08pm

re: #209 Gus

[Embedded content]

I dont see the problem with exposing these ignorant assholes

227 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:05:34pm

re: #214 Gus

*doublechecks*

Nope, still not drunk enough.

228 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:05:35pm

re: #220 wrenchwench

Except that the article I saw said that she was going to be summoned by a judge.

I believe there is a culture war in the US.

229 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:07:38pm

re: #224 klys

I would say Harry Potter, but then I noticed that the sign was “greater than,” not “equal to/or greater than.”

So, your point stands.

230 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:08:07pm

re: #229 ProTARDISLiberal

I would say Harry Potter, but then I noticed that the sign was “greater than,” not “equal to/or greater than.”

So, your point stands.

Book 5 completely negates that point.

I have never wanted to throw something across the room more.

231 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:09:18pm

re: #226 blueraven

I dont see the problem with exposing these ignorant assholes

[Embedded content]

That was already known. He invited him anyway to talk about Syria. Matthews went on to say something about progressives sounding like NEOCONS!!!

232 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:09:36pm
233 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:09:44pm

re: #224 klys

I’m still thinking of one that has worked for me. Perhaps maybe Bujold.

I would say so. Some are weaker than others (Cryroburn, except for the ending which was exquisite in it’s painfulness) but overall the series is still as strong as when I first read “The Mountains Of Mourning” in Analog oh so long ago.

234 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:10:28pm

That taboola crap on every web site is annoying.

235 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:10:35pm

re: #228 ProTARDISLiberal

Except that the article I saw said that she was going to be summoned by a judge.

I believe there is a culture war in the US.

My link is from a half hour ago. The judge has spoken. I believe there is a positive cultural shift going in, not a culture war.

236 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:10:51pm

“Look at that folks. A birther that wants to stay out of Syria like a good progressive should.”

237 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:12:40pm

re: #230 klys

Eh, didn’t have an issue with it.

I’ve seen, read, and played worse.

(Love and Monsters/DBZ for seen, Twilight for read, and Final Fantasy XII for played.)

238 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:12:44pm

re: #230 klys

Book 5 completely negates that point.

I have never wanted to throw something across the room more.

Really? I’d say that of 2 (blatant repeat of the first novel) but I enjoyed Phoenix; I liked having a new and worthwhile antagonist. Though I’ll also admit that I think that the movies fixed more than a few weaknesses in both Phoenix and Halfblood.

239 blueraven  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:12:53pm

re: #231 Gus

That was already known. He invited him anyway to talk about Syria. Matthews went on to say something about progressives sounding like NEOCONS!!!

What exactly did he say?

240 BongCrodny  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:12:57pm

re: #170 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Nothing like homemade sarin!

Breaking Bad, Season 6: Walter goes to Syria.

241 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:13:10pm

re: #233 William Barnett-Lewis

I would say so. Some are weaker than others (Cryroburn, except for the ending which was exquisite in it’s painfulness) but overall the series is still as strong as when I first read “The Mountains Of Mourning” in Analog oh so long ago.

Oh, Cryoburn broke my heart.

There’s a fanfic out there that is extremely well written (reads like a Bujold book, honestly - the author did a fantastic job) that started with the premise “what if everything went right for once?” Yeah, uses a bit of magic wand waving, but if you’re willing to suspend disbelief, it’s fantastic and does some great character development.

It’s the AU that soothes the wound from Cryoburn. If you’re interested, say so - I’m not going to force fanfic on anyone, but my standards for book fanfic are generally pretty high and this one is one of a few I’ve actually converted to have on my Kindle.

242 Balfour Rage  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:14:13pm
243 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:14:25pm

re: #237 ProTARDISLiberal

Oh, I have no objection with those things. I just hit whiny-Harry at a point where I really couldn’t stomach whiny-Harry at all.

I actually gave up on the series at that point. At some point I will get back and finish it, but as it stands, I haven’t read books 6 or 7.

244 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:15:10pm

re: #238 William Barnett-Lewis

Really? I’d say that of 2 (blatant repeat of the first novel) but I enjoyed Phoenix; I liked having a new and worthwhile antagonist. Though I’ll also admit that I think that the movies fixed more than a few weaknesses in both Phoenix and Halfblood.

Two was also bad. But I stopped reading at 5.

245 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:15:17pm

re: #238 William Barnett-Lewis

Book 4’s Movie was a catastrophic cock-up though.

Also, as someone who fondly remembers Rurouni Kenshin, I remember a roommate of mine who said that DBZ and Sailor Moon were better.

I thought he was fucked up. Later he became a Brony.

246 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:15:59pm

re: #239 blueraven

What exactly did he say?

Exactly? Don’t know yet. Going by Twitter.

247 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:16:09pm

re: #245 ProTARDISLiberal

Book 4’s Movie was a catastrophic cock-up though.

Also, as someone who fondly remembers Rurouni Kenshin, I remember a roommate of mine who said that DBZ and Sailor Moon were better.

I thought he was fucked up. Later he became a Brony.

I have all of RK on DVD. For a reason.

Although I will admit that show was mostly filler punctuated by moments of greatness.

248 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:16:24pm

re: #244 klys

As someone who is likely the youngest one here, I remember when I was 15.

I was definitely a whiny little snot then. So, I have no issue with that.

249 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:16:35pm

re: #241 klys

Oh, Cryoburn broke my heart.

There’s a fanfic out there that is extremely well written (reads like a Bujold book, honestly - the author did a fantastic job) that started with the premise “what if everything went right for once?” Yeah, uses a bit of magic wand waving, but if you’re willing to suspend disbelief, it’s fantastic and does some great character development.

It’s the AU that soothes the wound from Cryoburn. If you’re interested, say so - I’m not going to force fanfic on anyone, but my standards for book fanfic are generally pretty high and this one is one of a few I’ve actually converted to have on my Kindle.

Nic is highlighted if you wish to send a link by email.

250 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:16:38pm

re: #233 William Barnett-Lewis

I would say so. Some are weaker than others (Cryroburn, except for the ending which was exquisite in it’s painfulness) but overall the series is still as strong as when I first read “The Mountains Of Mourning” in Analog oh so long ago.

One other one that stands up so far for me is the Liaden serires by Miller and Lee, although Scalzi’s Old Man War series is up to six now? Plus there are the two by Glen Cook, The Black Company series and the Garrett books, but as always ymmv

251 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:17:50pm

WHEEL OF TIME, BITCHES!

252 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:17:53pm

re: #245 ProTARDISLiberal

Book 4’s Movie was a catastrophic cock-up though.

Also, as someone who fondly remembers Rurouni Kenshin, I remember a roommate of mine who said that DBZ and Sailor Moon were better.

I thought he was fucked up. Later he became a Brony.

Sailor Moon and Rurouni Kenshin are two different to be sensibly compared, IMO.

253 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:17:54pm

re: #247 klys

The Manga was pretty cool.

I guarantee that RK’s filler was better than the main portions of both DBZ and Sailor Moon.

Hell, there is a serious RK revival going on right now. Including a live-action film.

254 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:19:08pm

Guess I’ve gotten to the point where when some guest on Hardball is a birther I just gaze. Blank stare. Same like when he brings on a creationist.

255 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:19:31pm

Birther fatigue.

256 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:20:20pm

re: #250 piratedan

One other one that stands up so far for me is the Liaden serires by Miller and Lee, although Scalzi’s Old Man War series is up to six now? Plus there are the two by Glen Cook, The Black Company series and the Garrett books, but as always ymmv

Liaden has been hit or miss for me. There are some that I adore, but others have fallen too flat.

I tend to be happiest with story arcs that wrap themselves up in the 3-5 book range.

257 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:20:49pm

re: #243 klys

Oh, I have no objection with those things. I just hit whiny-Harry at a point where I really couldn’t stomach whiny-Harry at all.

I actually gave up on the series at that point. At some point I will get back and finish it, but as it stands, I haven’t read books 6 or 7.

I can understand that though for me that seemed to actually be in character for a 15 year old with some shitty things going on in his life. I can imagine reading it at the wrong time though.

I’d suggest finishing them when you feel up to it though. 6 & 7 are better books and I found the final one to be an interesting exploration of what it means to try to live up to a hero you are learning at the same time wasn’t always much of a hero.

258 blueraven  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:20:56pm

re: #246 Gus

Exactly? Don’t know yet. Going by Twitter.

That could be dangerous. Mara Liasson got slammed over something she never even said.

Chris is prone to hyperbole, so wouldn’t doubt he said something stupid, but should find out what it was first.

259 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:21:09pm

re: #253 ProTARDISLiberal

I’ve watched Sailor Moon and DBZ too.

I actually like Sailor Moon, but then I tend to be into shoujo.

It’s all a matter of what you like.

260 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:21:58pm

Ah well. Later.

261 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:22:08pm

I like Ciaphas Cain series, which currently stands at 9 books, but each of those is more of self contained story rather than an epic over reaching story arc.

262 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:22:10pm

re: #252 EPR-radar

That guy didn’t think so.

The guy was a bit of creep. Never cut his nails. Had me and another roommate constantly cleaning up after him. Acting like he we owed him something.

Also pointed out how his family from Brahmin lineage in India. That really doesn’t impress me. All that means is that two people with likely-undeserved high status people screwed around and popped you out. Whoopdee-fucking-doo

263 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:22:41pm

re: #223 William Barnett-Lewis

Sure, but Monarchism is fundamentally incompatible with Libertarianism. Sigh…

But benevolent feudalism is probably as close as you are going to get while maintaining a functional central government and ability for national defense, protected trade, and some flexibility to help areas that are having issues larger than they can deal with (like disaster relief or dealing with epidemics).

264 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:23:00pm

re: #250 piratedan

One other one that stands up so far for me is the Liaden serires by Miller and Lee, although Scalzi’s Old Man War series is up to six now? Plus there are the two by Glen Cook, The Black Company series and the Garrett books, but as always ymmv

Haven’t read most of that. Stopped the Black Company about 1/3 of the way through the 4th book.

265 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:23:12pm

Wait. Is there a fucking Wikileaks movie coming out?

Just what Assange’s ego needed…Benedict Cumberbatch playing him. (I would argue Cumberbatch’s streak of sociopaths continues unhindered.)

266 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:24:46pm

re: #265 klys

Wait. Is there a fucking Wikileaks movie coming out?

Just what Assange’s ego needed…Benedict Cumberbatch playing him. (I would argue Cumberbatch’s streak of sociopaths continues unhindered.)

I still think Mark Gatiss would have been a better Assange.

Image: mark_gatiss_512.jpg

267 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:24:49pm

re: #265 klys

Aside from his roles, what do you think of Cumberbatch?

268 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:25:26pm

re: #266 Kragar

Possibly. I like him in regards to Doctor Who though.

269 piratedan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:26:20pm

re: #256 klys

me too, but depending upon your taste, I thought that they were worth mentioning, I would really recommend the Garrett series, it’s lighthearted detective noir in a fantasy setting. The first couple of books take some time to hit their stride but settle in nicely once you get to know the cast of characters

270 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:26:51pm

re: #268 ProTARDISLiberal

Possibly. I like him in regards to Doctor Who though.

I’m just realizing how great he was in “The League of Gentlemen.”

271 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:27:54pm

re: #270 Kragar

He’s a man of many talents.

I want him for the next Showrunner.

He get even get Clara as the pet character. Better than Rose or River at any rate.

272 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:29:08pm

re: #249 William Barnett-Lewis

Nic is highlighted if you wish to send a link by email.

Blargh, can’t get it to give me an e-mail address so I will just reply here. Folks can ignore as they wish.

You can find it all here. Warning: they are not short.

273 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:30:11pm

re: #267 ProTARDISLiberal

Aside from his roles, what do you think of Cumberbatch?

I’m really the wrong person to ask. I do a very good job of ignoring TV and movies. My husband has only managed to get me to watch the first episode of Sherlock, and I go to maybe 2-3 movies a year.

If the movie industry relied on me they’d be screwed.

274 Kragar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:30:17pm

The League of Gentlemen Live - Stumphole Cavern

Youtube Video

275 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:30:21pm

re: #5 Kragar

I don’t think its wrong to say Wikileaks is a criminal organization posing as journalists.

Quite Concur.

276 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:31:07pm

re: #271 ProTARDISLiberal

I also think Russell T. Davies is a dick who injured Doctor Who as a show.

277 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:31:18pm

re: #261 Kragar

re: #269 piratedan

I am collecting recommendations to look up, as I always need more. Reading fast is not a blessing when it comes to entertainment reading. (KINDLE INCREASE YOUR CAPACITY DAMMIT.)

278 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:33:39pm

Please tell me we aren’t going all conspiracy theory here. An unsubstantiated appeal to authority should set off alarm bells all over the place.

279 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:34:47pm

re: #278 b_sharp

Please tell me we aren’t going all conspiracy theory here. An unsubstantiated appeal to authority should set off alarm bells all over the place.

What are you referring to?

280 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:36:44pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

What are you referring to?

The article at the head of this thread.

281 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:37:29pm

Today marks the last day my husband works for that giant software behemoth sometimes referred to as M$. Tomorrow he starts at another company, along with the rest of his product.

We may have abused employee purchasing rights today. Why yes, Visual Studio for $120. Come to mama.

282 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:40:47pm

*blows out a deep breath* Man. Tracking down a bug in an obscure programming language that only 3 people on Earth probably know (well, 4 now) is hard work. Three straight hours of head-down flipping between Remote Desktop sessions and tracing obscure numbers through log files later, I finally found it.

283 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:40:59pm

re: #278 b_sharp

Please tell me we aren’t going all conspiracy theory here. An unsubstantiated appeal to authority should set off alarm bells all over the place.

While there is no proof of any link between Wikileaks and Russian intelligence, the story being told in the OP is sufficiently plausible that it doesn’t really give me the CT vibe.

I’ll be content as long as Wikileaks = Russian intel op does not get established as local fact without real evidence to back it up.

284 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:42:19pm

re: #283 EPR-radar

While there is no proof of any link between Wikileaks and Russian intelligence, the story being told in the OP is sufficiently plausible that it doesn’t really give me the CT vibe.

I’ll be content as long as Wikileaks = Russian intel op does not get established as local fact without real evidence to back it up.

Plausibility is a hallmark of CTs.

But that’s all they have.

285 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:42:51pm

re: #280 b_sharp

The article at the head of this thread.

The thing is that this fits the model Russia has used since the 1930’s (back when it was the Soviet Union). The idea that the Snowden Affair is the product of Russian “Active Measures” is entirely plausible, given the extensive documentation of Russia’s use of such tactics.

The theory the article poses is literally a conspiracy theory, but the theory deals with a nation with a decades-long documented history of having engaged in just this sort of conspiracy.

286 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:43:59pm

re: #282 thedopefishlives

*blows out a deep breath* Man. Tracking down a bug in an obscure programming language that only 3 people on Earth probably know (well, 4 now) is hard work. Three straight hours of head-down flipping between Remote Desktop sessions and tracing obscure numbers through log files later, I finally found it.

I’ll bite. What language and on what platform?

287 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:44:19pm

re: #286 William Barnett-Lewis

I’ll bite. What language and on what platform?

Powerflex, Win32.

288 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:44:20pm

re: #284 b_sharp

Plausibility is a hallmark of CTs.

But that’s all they have.

Actually, the CTs I’m familiar with are usually exceedingly implausible on their face (e.g., 9/11 truthers, chemtrails, Area 51, the Illuminati, etc.).

What would be an example of a plausible CT?

289 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:46:26pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

The thing is that this fits the model Russia has used since the 1930’s (back when it was the Soviet Union). The idea that the Snowden Affair is the product of Russian “Active Measures” is entirely plausible, given the extensive documentation of Russia’s use of such tactics.

The theory the article poses is literally a conspiracy theory, but the theory deals with a nation with a decades-long documented history of having engaged in just this sort of conspiracy.

This. There is no direct documentation that the current affair is a factual Russian espionage conspiracy (and there probably never will be); however, such a thing is not unprecedented, and the end result is enough to make the idea plausible. That’s a lot more than most traditional “conspiracy theories” have, but certainly a far cry from being able to call it fact.

290 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:49:10pm

re: #287 thedopefishlives

Powerflex, Win32.

Just another 4GL app builder I presume?

291 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:49:53pm

re: #289 thedopefishlives

This. There is no direct documentation that the current affair is a factual Russian espionage conspiracy (and there probably never will be); however, such a thing is not unprecedented, and the end result is enough to make the idea plausible. That’s a lot more than most traditional “conspiracy theories” have, but certainly a far cry from being able to call it fact.

Agreed. This article represents a theory that fits the currently known facts, and it remains only a theory. But it is a theory worth examining, given what we have learned from history.

BBL

292 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:49:59pm

re: #290 William Barnett-Lewis

Just another 4GL app builder I presume?

Winner. There’s a guy at the client who writes this stuff, and then the guys that built it, and me.

293 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:50:26pm

Obama is a Muslim. Gun control is the first step to confiscation. Pick almost any rwnj conspiracy and you’ll find a germ of plausibility, enough to convince too many it is correct.

Even 9/11 truthers can spin a plausible story.

Plausibility is not enough, by a long stretch, to accept a story as truth.

294 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:51:25pm

Following up on yesterday’s posting on “Solomon’s mines”, I see that UPI does it bit by repeating the same story:

Archaeological evidence suggests King Solomon’s mines existed

UPI puts this story (which is just a repeat of what has been floating around for a couple of days) under “Science News”, but it really is just religious copy being circulated because it’s a headline that some will find attractive, and required zero research by UPI.

295 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:52:07pm

It’s plausible that my wife tried to pound a nail in the gyproc using my cat as a hammer.

296 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:53:13pm

re: #293 b_sharp

Obama is a Muslim. Gun control is the first step to confiscation. Pick almost any rwnj conspiracy and you’ll find a germ of plausibility, enough to convince too many it is correct.

Even 9/11 truthers can spin a plausible story.

Plausibility is not enough, by a long stretch, to accept a story as truth.

I think this sets the bar too low for ‘plausibility’ It seems like any story that is not self-contradictory would qualify under this kind of standard.

Plausible is not proof, but more than a coherent story line is needed.

297 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:53:19pm

re: #292 thedopefishlives

Winner. There’s a guy at the client who writes this stuff, and then the guys that built it, and me.

Thrill a minute. What database does it hit and is it for sales or accounting?

298 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:53:21pm

What’s good for business is good for America, no?

Science on trial?

299 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:54:10pm

re: #297 William Barnett-Lewis

Thrill a minute. What database does it hit and is it for sales or accounting?

Pervasive SQL, and sales. Specifically, this application is used as a point of sale system for the client. Also interfaces with VB6, which ranks REAL high up there on my list of favorite languages.

300 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:56:50pm

re: #295 b_sharp

It’s plausible that my wife tried to pound a nail in the gyproc using my cat as a hammer.

I think I saw that on Youtube last week.

301 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:58:07pm

UPI is really, really bad these days. Also under “science news”:

Observations strongly suggest distant super-Earth has water atmosphere

Japanese researchers say observation of a distant exoplanet in the center of the Milky Way suggests the “super-Earth” likely has a water-rich atmosphere.

Super-Earths are exoplanets orbiting a star outside of the solar system with a mass and radius larger than Earth’s but smaller than those of ice giants in our system such as Uranus or Neptune

[…]

The Japanese research team of astronomers and planetary scientists focused their efforts on investigating the atmospheric features of one super-Earth, GJ 1214 b, located 40 light years from Earth in the center of our Milky Way galaxy, the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan reported Wednesday.


[…]

Sigh….

302 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:58:59pm

re: #301 freetoken

UPI is really, really bad these days. Also under “science news”:

Observations strongly suggest distant super-Earth has water atmosphere

Sigh….

Whaddya mean, we’re not the center of the known universe???!?

303 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:59:20pm

re: #296 EPR-radar

I think this sets the bar too low for ‘plausibility’ It seems like any story that is not self-contradictory would qualify under this kind of standard.

Plausible is not proof, but more than a coherent story line is needed.

What I am saying is that plausibility, no matter the height of the bar, is very unconvincing by itself.

Corroborating evidence is what changes supposition to something to consider.

304 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:59:59pm

re: #236 Gus

“Look at that folks. A birther that wants to stay out of Syria like a good progressive should.”

Mondowiess is pretty exited because Chris Hayes used his show yesterday to promote anti-Israel conspiracy theories….
‘There’s no stupider reason to go to war than fear that people will think you are weak’ — Chris Hayes

Professor Haddad spoke of the confused support for the strike, including the goal of supporting the “settler colonial state of Israel”- have you ever heard those words on cable TV before? — and said a strike will foreclose a political solution, which would involve Russia and the US forcing all parties to the conflict to come together.

No mention if he objected to this conspiracy theory, I suspect not.

305 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:00:50pm

re: #299 thedopefishlives

Pervasive SQL, and sales. Specifically, this application is used as a point of sale system for the client. Also interfaces with VB6, which ranks REAL high up there on my list of favorite languages.

Sounds like the kind of stuff a good friend of mine loved doing (hs’d in admin now). SQL Server & VB were his absolute favorite things in the world. I like … other things better ;)

Allegro Common Lisp on a nice Unixen flavor for example.

306 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:01:21pm

re: #300 Eclectic Cyborg

I think I saw that on Youtube last week.

I suggested she use her own cat and she got pissy.

307 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:02:07pm

re: #301 freetoken

The incredible shrinking Milky Way. Now only 40 light years from our solar system to the galactic core.

Not so incidentally, if we really were only 40 light years from the galactic core (and life had still manage to evolve), we’d probably be able to metabolize hard radiation.

308 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:02:13pm

re: #305 William Barnett-Lewis

Sounds like the kind of stuff a good friend of mine loved doing (hs’d in admin now). SQL Server & VB were his absolute favorite things in the world. I like … other things better ;)

Allegro Common Lisp on a nice Unixen flavor for example.

VB = Visual Botulism.

309 freetoken  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:02:19pm

re: #302 klys

The writer has no clue as to our relationship to the Milky Way, what “40 light years” means, or that it is not surprising that planets orbiting other stars would be outside our own solar system.

Yet UPI pays this person to write “Science News”.

Hope they don’t pay ‘em too much.

310 kirkspencer  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:02:28pm

Late to the discussion so I’ll shotgun responses instead of making a bunch of small posts.

re: #180 piratedan re Ringo, I’ve met him too. I don’t like him personally but think he sometimes does good things, don’t like his politics, and like some of his books. huh, he’s a human, go figure.

re the multitude discussing long series that I think are generally good, I’m fond of:
1) Lloyd Alexander’s Prydain series (yeah, it’s old, so what. Add pretty much all of Agatha Christie’s stuff. Burroughs Mars and Tarzan series. Old, still good.);
2) Jim Butcher’s Dresden series (though there’s that one weaker book);
3) Pratchett’s Discworld.

think I’ll stop there for a bit.

311 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:02:42pm

re: #305 William Barnett-Lewis

Sounds like the kind of stuff a good friend of mine loved doing (hs’d in admin now). SQL Server & VB were his absolute favorite things in the world. I like … other things better ;)

Allegro Common Lisp on a nice Unixen flavor for example.

Honestly, it’s not necessarily what I love doing. My personal side project is writing my own Unix clone in C++. It’s fun to be challenged with stuff that is out of the ordinary, though, and this project certainly qualifies as that. Better than the boring drudgery of my day job grinding out C# code.

312 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:05:22pm
located 40 light years from Earth in the center of our Milky Way galaxy

What the what.

313 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:05:58pm

re: #312 Pavlovian Hive Mind

What the what.

Well, the Earth is the center of the universe, don’tcha know…

*cough*

314 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:06:02pm

re: #303 b_sharp

What I am saying is that plausibility, no matter the height of the bar, is very unconvincing by itself.

Corroborating evidence is what changes supposition to something to consider.

I agree that plausibility is not proof.

However, the examples you gave, and most CTs, relate to ideas which are so far fetched that it is a waste of time to take them seriously. Dismissing such ideas as implausible (unless compelling evidence is provided up front) is reasonable.

IMO, the OP here is plausible in a way that 9/11 trutherism, birtherism etc. clearly are not. It seems illogical to categorize everything that is not proven with evidence as CT.

315 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:07:17pm

re: #311 thedopefishlives

Honestly, it’s not necessarily what I love doing. My personal side project is writing my own Unix clone in C++. It’s fun to be challenged with stuff that is out of the ordinary, though, and this project certainly qualifies as that. Better than the boring drudgery of my day job grinding out C# code.

No stranger than my messing around with old copies of SCO Xenix :) I’m hoping to get Franz Lisp and UCB Ingres running under it once I can find an old enough laptop that still has a working floppy drive …

316 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:07:39pm

Center of Milky Way 26000 lightyears that a way —>

317 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:07:50pm

re: #301 freetoken

UPI is really, really bad these days. Also under “science news”:

Observations strongly suggest distant super-Earth has water atmosphere

Sigh….

Never ever believe a MSM story about science. They always find some way of screwing it up.

318 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:09:09pm

re: #316 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Center of Milky Way 26000 lightyears that a way —>

Not first door on the left.

319 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:09:33pm
320 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:10:35pm

We are in the Orion Arm.
/Geek

321 b_sharp  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:12:19pm

re: #320 Pavlovian Hive Mind

We are in the Orion Arm.
/Geek

Who is in the Orion sack?

322 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:12:43pm

re: #321 b_sharp

Who is in the Orion sack?

You.

323 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:13:58pm
324 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:13:59pm

Cat just managed to knock off my crafting basket from the table because he’s having a psychotic run around the room moment.

Remind me again why I love them?

325 EPR-radar  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:14:46pm

re: #324 klys

Cat just managed to knock off my crafting basket from the table because he’s having a psychotic run around the room moment.

Remind me again why I love them?

Their capacity for unconditional affection.

326 klys  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:15:14pm

re: #325 EPR-radar

Their capacity for unconditional affection.

…Clearly you haven’t met my cats. Their affection is completely based on who feeds them.

327 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:16:01pm
328 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:16:20pm

re: #308 b_sharp

VB = Visual Botulism.

i became disenchanted w VB when the instructor asked me ‘would it kill you to clone the code??’

yes, i’m afraid it would

329 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:17:03pm

enny other lizzardz at the man this year?

330 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:17:46pm

re: #308 b_sharp

VB = Visual Botulism.

You’re too kind.

331 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:20:54pm

re: #322 Pavlovian Hive Mind

You.

Sarcasm, btw.
;)

332 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:25:55pm

re: #324 klys

Cat just managed to knock off my crafting basket from the table because he’s having a psychotic run around the room moment.

Remind me again why I love them?

Because if you don’t, they’ll enslave you.

Oh, wait. They already have.

333 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:27:13pm

I see the Dudebro Choir is starting to push hard to make Barrett Brown the next heroic victim of government oppression.

334 thedopefishlives  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:27:26pm

re: #333 Charles Johnson

I see the Dudebro Choir is starting to push hard to make Barrett Brown the next heroic victim of government oppression.

Who?

*ducks*

335 Stanley Sea  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:28:54pm

re: #329 dog philosopher

enny other lizzardz at the man this year?

Nope. One day, one day.

You enjoyed? What’s the best memory?

336 AlexRogan  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:33:52pm

re: #333 Charles Johnson

I see the Dudebro Choir is starting to push hard to make Barrett Brown the next heroic victim of government oppression.

When most of them didn’t know who BB was or gave a shit about him six months ago.

337 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:34:27pm

re: #335 Stanley Sea

Nope. One day, one day.

You enjoyed? What’s the best memory?

hmm that’s a hard one to answer…

playing saxophone with a rock n roll band while outside the tent the early dawn colors compliment the galaxy of twinkling lights on the playa?

338 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:42:09pm

re: #336 AlexRogan

As a professional musician, I’ve seen (and worked with) more than a few people on missions to destroy themselves. Barrett Brown was as egomaniacally reckless as any of them. I don’t wish him ill, I just wish I’d never met him.

339 Stanley Sea  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:44:11pm

re: #337 dog philosopher

hmm that’s a hard one to answer…

playing saxophone with a rock n roll band while outside the tent the early dawn colors compliment the galaxy of twinkling lights on the playa?

Sounds great. I just love the photos. Read an essay from some 70 year olders who go. So I’ve got time!

340 urbanmeemaw  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:44:40pm

re: #66 piratedan

Interesting perspective on Russian involvement. That makes sense. I still think there are some other players with other motives as well. I wonder if we’ll ever know the full story.

341 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:45:00pm

re: #338 Charles Johnson

As a professional musician, I’ve seen (and worked with) more than a few people on missions to destroy themselves.

Do you think people of that nature are more common in the music business?

342 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:46:02pm

Oh, I see why they’re suddenly promoting Barrett Brown - he’s going on Robert Stacy McCain’s internet radio show.

Again we see the chaos wing of the libertarian nihilists reaching out to the far right for maximum chaotic effect.

343 dog philosopher  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:47:48pm

re: #339 Stanley Sea

Sounds great. I just love the photos. Read an essay from some 70 year olders who go. So I’ve got time!

i’m 59 mself

but i can tell you, bicycling around on the playa at noon is a little more difficult at 59 than it was when i wuz 45

344 bratwurst  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:51:52pm
345 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:53:35pm

re: #342 Charles Johnson

Oh, I see why they’re suddenly promoting Barrett Brown - he’s going on Robert Stacy McCain’s internet radio show.

Again we see the chaos wing of the libertarian nihilists reaching out to the far right for maximum chaotic effect.

Please let me know if my name comes up.

346 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:55:08pm

I met Larry Harvey and the rest of the core guys at a meeting at the Voodoo Lounge at the Rio years back. (My dad is a serious Burner) plus a whole lotta performers from Cirque du Soleil Ka were there. Cool party.

347 Gus  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:56:00pm

re: #342 Charles Johnson

Oh, I see why they’re suddenly promoting Barrett Brown - he’s going on Robert Stacy McCain’s internet radio show.

Again we see the chaos wing of the libertarian nihilists reaching out to the far right for maximum chaotic effect.

Wait. What? Oh dear lord. RSM is simply promoting this because it’s “Obama’s DOJ.”

348 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:57:22pm

re: #346 Amory Blaine

I developed quite a fondness for CameraGirl.

349 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 6:57:49pm

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Please let me know if my name comes up.

Won’t be listening.

350 Decatur Deb  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:02:26pm

re: #342 Charles Johnson

Oh, I see why they’re suddenly promoting Barrett Brown - he’s going on Robert Stacy McCain’s internet radio show.

Again we see the chaos wing of the libertarian nihilists reaching out to the far right for maximum chaotic effect.

So he’s bereft of federal hospitality?

351 Amory Blaine  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:02:39pm

re: #348 Amory Blaine

CameraGirl

Burning Man’s Technology Dominatrix

352 Robert O.  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:14:45pm

At the end of the day, I still demand to know why we have so much trouble with leakers and traitors. It isn’t just Snowden. There was Manning. And what about all those indisciplined soldiers who took part in Iraq’s torture scandals and passed the photos around? What about the SEAL who took part in the Bin Laden raid and then wrote a book without even checking with the military? Why is it (it seems) only the US that is having these problems - people who are so stuck up themselves they don’t care about the damage they do to the country. Why have we not have similar stories about leakers and traitors from China?

353 austin_blue  Wed, Sep 4, 2013 8:11:10pm

re: #74 CuriousLurker

OT—LOL:

[Embedded content]

I miss Reine.

Hope she and the Roi are doing well.


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