Americans Fear Hackers More Than the Government Over Online Privacy

So a Greenwald #fail then?
Internet • Views: 28,769

Americans are concerned about internet privacy, but they’re far less worried about government snooping than they are about their online activity being monitored by hackers and advertisers.

That’s according to a survey of 792 internet and smartphone users in the US by the Pew Internet & American Life Project, conducted in July.

Who are people worried about? 33% of people who’d taken measures to protect their privacy said they were trying to hide their activities from hackers or criminals, while 28% said they were concerned about advertisers.

19% said they were hiding from “people in their past” or “certain friends”; 17% from “people who might criticise, harass or target them”; 14% from family members or a romantic partner; and 11% from employers, supervisors or workmates.

Interestingly, given the debates around anti-piracy legislation, only 6% of Pew’s respondents said they were trying to avoid their online activity being observed by “companies or people who might want payment for files you download”.

Meanwhile, the government and law enforcement authorities were well down the list at 5% and 4% respectively. The survey was conducted between 11 July and 14 July, well after the first revelations about the US National Security Agency’s surveillance activities broke.

More: Americans Fear Hackers More Than the Government Over Online Privacy

By the way, have a look at how other media are spinning this exact same data. Very interesting/odd that it’s The Guardian only who go with that headline.

Jump to bottom

177 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:47:43am

It’s almost like people trust their government and not a bunch of goofball dudebros who watched “Hackers” too many times.

2 Ming  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:52:11am

re: #1 Kragar

When I read the blog post title, and also responding to your comment, this reminds me of my feeling that I trust the police and military to have guns, but private citizens, not so much.

Of course, there are two important sides to each issue: hacker power versus government software power, government with guns versus private citizens with guns. But for now at least, what I really fear is decentralized, anonymous actors, from completely private citizens to “activists” like Greenwald to drug cartels and al Queda, with weapon power and hacker power. Compared to this, a US government with those powers doesn’t bother me nearly as much.

3 erik_t  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:53:27am

A story comes out that makes Americans sound shockingly sensible….?!

I like this kind of story.

4 Political Atheist  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:53:45am

Of course, it’s like trusting cops above criminals. Duh. Of course we still want robust checks on the cops. Or in this case the FISA/FBI/NSA contingent. Good strong law enforcement and checks and balances. Like that “get a warrant” thing. Or temporary measures actually being temporary.

5 jaunte  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:54:50am
6 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:54:55am

Some random hacker/criminal is more likely in my opinion to use data in an attempt to target me for fraud and/or robbery than the government is.

7 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56:14am

I’m one of them, having had another computer, even with security, gain a trojan horse a few years ago.

Why would I ever trust hackers?

8 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:58:06am

re: #3 erik_t

A story comes out that makes Americans sound shockingly sensible….?!

I like this kind of story.

QFT.

This is as it should be. It’s a pity we’re surprised.

9 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:58:25am

re: #7 Justanotherhuman

I’m one of them, having had another computer, even with security, gain a trojan horse a few years ago.

Why would I ever trust hackers?

Don’t you care about all that information trying to be free? Don’t you even care?!!
///

10 erik_t  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:58:53am

Hmm.

Class, what do we colloquially call someone who uses someone else’s user information to gain unauthorized access to someone else’s files, for nefarious purposes?

Anyone? Anyone? Edward? Bueller?

11 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:59:22am

re: #10 erik_t

Hmm.

Class, what do we colloquially call someone who uses someone else’s user information to gain unauthorized access to someone else’s files, for nefarious purposes?

Anyone? Anyone? Edward? Bueller?

A WHISTLEBLOWER!
/

12 Lidane  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:59:58am

re: #7 Justanotherhuman

Why would I ever trust hackers?

Oh come on. Who wouldn’t trust a dudebro in a Guy Fawkes mask?

////

13 jaunte  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:01:03am

re: #10 erik_t

This week’s Greenwaldism: “bulk spying.”
So individual spying is fine.

14 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:01:30am

I am so totally into this.

and you?

15 piratedan  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:02:48am

re: #14 FemNaziBitch

as long as that’s all you’re wearing….. :-)

16 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:03:06am

Fucking dumbasses on tech calls:

Me: “D, I need you to email the specs on the devices we’re working on.”
Fucking Dumbass “Here, let me chip in and rattle off the information on the phone too quickly for use!”
Me: “… D, I need you to email the specs on the devices we’re working on.”
D: “Sending it now.”

17 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:03:15am

re: #14 FemNaziBitch

I am so totally into this.

and you?

hauspanther.com

:)

18 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:03:59am

Of course, it makes sense that someone who messes around with other people’s computers and systems would follow the libertarian creed—after all, we want to do what we want to do wherever and whenever we want with no govt interference.

So—fuck you, hackers. And, also, quit playing around with my govt and my civil rights. You’re no better than looters after a natural disaster and are proving to be even worse.

19 b.d.  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:06:35am

The Guardian is pushing what they have to sell. That is how good intentioned people end up getting dumber and meaner.

20 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:07:57am

re: #14 FemNaziBitch

I am so totally into this.

and you?

I’m a simple man, with simple needs.

Image: m3430315a_99120101107_SMStalkerHunter01_873x627.jpg

21 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:08:20am

I guess, when I think of hacking, I think of someone stealing my oh-so important personal data. But it’s also about shenanigans that make my computer not work the way I want it to.

That last part is definitely in the realm of the hacker. I don’t see some government pensioner getting his kicks by twerking my macbook.

22 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:08:58am

re: #14 FemNaziBitch

I am so totally into this.

and you?

Does that come in Birkenstock?

23 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:09:23am

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

24 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:09:35am

re: #22 Decatur Deb

Does that come in Birkenstock?

I think they are called Crocks.

25 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:10:37am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

Make 4 close simulations of the items.
Lose them.
Remember where.

26 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:10:45am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

Depends on the item. : )

27 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:11:07am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

Declare someone stole it and it’ll magically reappear in a few days.

28 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:11:42am

re: #25 Decatur Deb

Make 4 close simulations of the items.
Lose them.
Remember where.

I don’t have a 3D printer. yet.

29 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:11:44am

re: #27 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Declare someone stole it and it’ll magically reappear in a few days.

Buy a replacement—works every time.

30 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:12:08am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

Blame the kids.

31 Bubblehead II  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:12:13am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

Buy replacements. The old ones will show up in a day or two :-)

32 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:12:30am

Just posted in Pages: Clinton’s speech today on ACA.

33 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:12:54am

re: #31 Bubblehead II

Buy replacements. The old ones will show up in a day or two :-)

I know, I want to spend that $4.42 on something else.

34 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:13:32am

re: #28 FemNaziBitch

I don’t have a 3D printer. yet.

For Tampa Lizards—Museum of Science and Industry gives 3d classes, which include long-term user rights to a couple printers. Son2 did it.

35 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:14:28am

re: #31 Bubblehead II

Type faster.

36 ericblair  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:14:48am

re: #27 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Declare someone stole it and it’ll magically reappear in a few days.

Accuse someone to their face of stealing it and watch the items magically appear on the table next to you.

37 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:16:45am

re: #34 Decatur Deb

For Tampa Lizards—Museum of Science and Industry gives 3d classes, which include long-term user rights to a couple printers. Son2 did it.

oooooh, now, that is something.

38 Bubblehead II  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:17:12am

re: #35 Decatur Deb

Type faster.

I can only go so fast with two fingers.

40 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:18:05am

re: #39 Kragar

Russian Legislators Introduce Bill to Take Children Away From LGBT Parents

I think that is paged.

And they are insane.

41 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:18:19am

No Pres Obama for you, LA!

Obama cancels California Monday trip

politico.com

42 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:19:21am

re: #37 FemNaziBitch

oooooh, now, that is something.

Might be done in other cities like Chicago/SF. Tampa taught 2 technologies—thin sheet and liquid.

43 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:21:09am
44 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:28:38am

re: #40 FemNaziBitch

I think that is paged.

And they are insane.

I’m still waiting for Scott Lively, Bryan Fischer et al, to move to Russia. I really can’t see what they’re waiting around for; freedom is only a plane trip away.

//

45 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:30:49am

Did Clinton have a stroke? He’s messing up some of his words.

47 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:32:46am
48 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:34:20am

Nearly 50% of us (under 65) have a pre-existing condition.

17 Million children with pre-existing condition.

49 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:36:32am

8.7 women will have maternity services FOR THE FIRST TIME.

Have we learned nothing?

50 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:37:47am

1.3 million Veterans.

51 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:39:14am
52 SpaceJesus  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:43:14am

The clerk in NM who started issuing same sex marriage licenses first sounds like a badass on TPM


tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

53 darthstar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:45:15am
54 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:49:00am

re: #52 SpaceJesus

The clerk in NM who started issuing same sex marriage licenses first sounds like a badass on TPM

tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

Paged it earlier. That guy is awesome.

“Nobody voted on whether I can get married, and I don’t think anybody voted on whether you can get married, and you don’t vote civil rights issues because the purpose of the 14th Amendment is to protect minorities,” Ellins said. “And people with that sexual orientation are minorities. So you don’t put that to a vote. It flies in the face of jurisprudence since the late 19th century.”

55 darthstar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:49:58am

re: #43 Charles Johnson

I’m going to need a bigger grill for all those wings.

56 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:50:39am
57 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:51:11am

no correlation between cost and outcome in healthcare.

There goes all those theories on capitalism!

58 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:54:13am

90 minutes into the call, the DNS guy who has been telling us the whole time we’ve been doing something wrong since we can’t connect finally checks his information and notices he had added the completely wrong IP address to the work ticket.

BASTARD!

59 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:55:11am

re: #51 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

No surprise here….

Housh helped plan the night’s fundraiser over email and conference calls with a group of other activists over a number of weeks, facilitated by networks forged during Occupy Wall Street between Anonymous and more traditional types of activists.

The broad concern was reflected by the fact that there was a lot more than Anons in the room—local anarchists, civil libertarians and Occupiers all turned up.

60 Dr. Matt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 11:58:31am
Caught on tape: Burning car in Colorado Springs crash explodes on street

thedenverchannel.com

On the awesome scale, that was 3.5 stars.

Warning: turn the volume down if at work.

61 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:01:19pm

Dudebro with the aviators. Nice.

62 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:02:28pm

oh, good freakin grief…

A Republican candidate for Texas attorney general told an anti-abortion group last week that China’s so-called one child policy could unleash a plague on the country similar to the one described in the Bible.

“Attempts at genocide, like pharaoh’s, do not go without inevitable ‘reckoning.’ In the case of the Egyptians, all their first-born, including pharaoh’s son, were killed, and once mighty Egypt became merely a footnote in human history and a place where we used to visit (but not anymore since the ‘Arab spring’) the pyramids,” Smitherman said. “In the case of China’s one child policy, we have a modern-day example of what happens when a society does not honor ‘life.’ And like what happened to the Egyptians under pharaoh, this too, I predict, will end badly for the Chinese.”

Barry Smitherman, Texas Attorney General Candidate, Says Abortion Will Bring Divine ‘Reckoning’

63 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:02:54pm

re: #61 Amory Blaine

Dudebro with the aviators. Nice.

“Top Gun was fuckin’ awesome, Bro. I’d totally be a fuckin’ pilot, but the Air Force said I needed to finish college first. Fuckin’ fascists.”

64 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:04:15pm

re: #62 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh, good freakin grief…

Barry Smitherman, Texas Attorney General Candidate, Says Abortion Will Bring Divine ‘Reckoning’

Well, lets see. Texas currently is being hit with drought, swarms of insects, and explosions. Maybe they should try doing things differently and see if things change.

65 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:05:13pm

re: #60 Dr. Matt

On the awesome scale, that was 3.5 stars.

Warning: turn the volume down if at work.

Oxygen canisters in the trunk…yep, that’ll do it…

66 dog philosopher  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:06:01pm

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I now have a list of 4 items lost somewhere in the house.

What do you do when you think you’ve looked everywhere.

I even cleaned.

look for 4 completely different things, find first four items by chance

67 Dr. Matt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:06:59pm

re: #62 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh, good freakin grief…

Barry Smitherman, Texas Attorney General Candidate, Says Abortion Will Bring Divine ‘Reckoning’

Shouldn’t this make the RWNJs happy? These people actually want the Rapture to happen. And if that won’t happen, they would be happy with Red Dawn as reality.

68 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:09:34pm

1st in Health Care Spending, 25th or something in outcomes.

69 dog philosopher  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:09:52pm

Barry Smitherman, Texas Attorney General Candidate, Says Abortion Will Bring Divine ‘Reckoning’

i want to go back to a society really based on the bible so i can make you my slave

70 dog philosopher  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:11:14pm

re: #68 FemNaziBitch

1st in Health Care Spending, 25th or something in outcomes.

have you ever noticed how utterly uninformed americans are about how healthcare works in other countries?

71 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:11:39pm

re: #69 dog philosopher

Barry Smitherman, Texas Attorney General Candidate, Says Abortion Will Bring Divine ‘Reckoning’

i want to go back to a society really based on the bible so i can make you my slave

There must be a lot of abortions in Texas then.

Illegal or Legal, abortions will still occur!

72 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:12:10pm

re: #70 dog philosopher

have you ever noticed how utterly uninformed americans are about how healthcare works in other countries?

Yeah, all those poor people in developed nations standing in line to come to American for healthcare.

I hadn’t noticed.

73 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:14:43pm

Yeah Canadians are pouring over the border.

74 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:16:37pm

If Canadians were pouring over the border for health care, then Detroit would be a dominant force in hospital building. Are there more hospitals per capita in Detroit?

75 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:16:59pm

Here we go again, by the way.

US and UK Spy Agencies Defeat Privacy and Security on the Internet.

The first Greenwald reports piqued my interest, because if they were true and accurate it really was big news.

Now I just expect that within a day or so, we’ll find out that this article distorted or misrepresented or omitted key facts, like every other one has. Honestly not even very interested in checking.

They’ve cried wolf way too many times.

76 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:20:19pm

Bellingham Washington would be a metropolis of hospitals.

77 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:20:46pm

Don’t you love it when Glenn gloats?

78 Bubblehead II  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:21:51pm

Man Pays $1K to Bash Airline on Twitter

Airline customer service reps and social media mavens are on watch this week after a disgruntled passenger paid to bash a carrier to 77,000 travelers via Twitter.

Hasan Syed, 28, of Chicago, spent $1,000 using Twitter’s self-service ad platform to elevate a series of frustrated tweets about British Airways on Tuesday.

79 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:22:25pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

Don’t you love it when Glenn gloats?

[Embedded content]

I notice the deadline for GCHQ to return Miranda’s property has come and gone. Did I miss Glenn gloating over the return of the files?

80 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:22:58pm

re: #58 Kragar

90 minutes into the call, the DNS guy who has been telling us the whole time we’ve been doing something wrong since we can’t connect finally checks his information and notices he had added the completely wrong IP address to the work ticket.

BASTARD!

“Oh, yeah, sorry ‘bout that. My bad.”

81 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:23:13pm

I’m not surprised. You can regulate and watch the government. A hacker though? He’s doing whatever he wants to do. Of course, the consensus to this question probably drives Greenwald and his kind nuts because they only care about people being scared of the government rather than meaningful discussion on the issue.

82 dog philosopher  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:23:19pm

i really just don’t understand why, if obama wants to do something about the syrian gas attacks, he isn’t first going to the un and pushing them to get their asses in gear

83 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:24:28pm

re: #70 dog philosopher

have you ever noticed how utterly uninformed americans are about how healthcare works in other countries?

Don’t people in other countries have to stand in long lines for hours, then get told to go home and die? That’s what I heard, anyway.
///

84 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:24:33pm

re: #78 Bubblehead II

He seems to be slightly pissed off.

85 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:24:48pm
86 dog philosopher  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:26:00pm

generally what i hear about americans impressions of health care in other places is that the entire country of canada is in a waiting room and the british have no teeth

and, of course, “america has the best healthcare in the world”, and i know this because of my abject ignorance on the subject

87 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:26:41pm

re: #82 dog philosopher

i really just don’t understand why, if obama wants to do something about the syrian gas attacks, he isn’t first going to the un and pushing them to get their asses in gear

Obama has said that working with the UN is part of the overall plan. I imagine the US is presently doing what it can there.

Not much point of making a big song and dance about this in the media until (big if) there are some results to report.

88 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:26:53pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Kind of like the Religious Right. You know, thump their chests about how much power they have and then cry that being a Christian is like Jim Crow. Same thing with GG. He thinks he can bully governments but also wants to be Glenn Greenwald, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST.

89 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:27:49pm

re: #86 dog philosopher

generally what i hear about americans impressions of health care in other places is that the entire country of canada is in a waiting room and the british have no teeth

and, of course, “america has the best healthcare in the world”, and i know this because of my abject ignorance on the subject

America does have some of the best healthcare in the world…for those with deep, DEEP pockets.

90 freetoken  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:28:13pm

re: #47 Kragar

Power Says Russia Holding U.N. Security Council ‘Hostage’

Reading the comments at TPM, I see that the imaginations are running free.

It’s kind of wild to see supposedly “progressives” defend Putin.

We have reached the derpularity.

91 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:28:53pm

re: #81 HappyWarrior

I’m not surprised. You can regulate and watch the government. A hacker though? He’s doing whatever he wants to do. Of course, the consensus to this question probably drives Greenwald and his kind nuts because they only care about people being scared of the government rather than meaningful discussion on the issue.

Glenn’s not interested in a discussion, never truly was. The way he’s acted is like that of a BBS troll who tosses an inflammatory comment/question/article into the middle of the crowd, purely to push his own ideology, and then when called on his desire to just stir the shit, responds with “I just wanted to start a discussion!”

92 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:29:11pm

re: #82 dog philosopher

i really just don’t understand why, if obama wants to do something about the syrian gas attacks, he isn’t first going to the un and pushing them to get their asses in gear

Begins with an ‘R’, ends with an ‘ussia’. And with even the UK not backing it, what’s the point?

I think maybe it’s time to up the ante. Have Obama announce that, since the International Community no longer believes the use of chemical weapons is cause for alarm, we’re going to build a big stockpile.

Yeah, I’m kidding. But it sure seems like nobody gives a flying crap about CWs anymore.

93 Bubblehead II  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:30:40pm

re: #84 ProTARDISLiberal

He seems to be slightly pissed off.

Just a tad.

94 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:31:30pm

re: #90 freetoken

Reading the comments at TPM, I see that the imaginations are running free.

It’s kind of wild to see supposedly “progressives” defend Putin.

We have reached the derpularity.

The “peace at any cost” nimrods are starting to rear their heads, and when that happens any sort of reason goes out the window.

95 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:32:54pm

re: #89 Eclectic Cyborg

America does have some of the best healthcare in the world…for those with deep, DEEP pockets.

Seriously. In discussions with Conservatives - not quite wingnut-grade - it goes like this:

Them: America has the best healthcare system in the world!!!

Me: We pay FAR more for healthcare, both per capita and as a percent of GDP, than any other nation, but our outcomes are no better. AND they cover everyone!

Them: Why are you always running America down?

96 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:33:11pm

re: #92 GeneJockey

Begins with an ‘R’, ends with an ‘ussia’. And with even the UK not backing it, what’s the point?

I think maybe it’s time to up the ante. Have Obama announce that, since the International Community no longer believes the use of chemical weapons is cause for alarm, we’re going to build a big stockpile.

Yeah, I’m kidding. But it sure seems like nobody gives a flying crap about CWs anymore.

If the US really does get out of the business of single-handedly trying to solve international problems, that will dramatically increase pressure on the UNSC to get its act together.

Let all the world plainly see that the Russian veto on the UNSC is the reason Assad can use chemical weapons with impunity.

97 b.d.  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:34:53pm

I’ve been out, has Glenn Greenwald brought the UK to its knees yet?

98 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:35:29pm

re: #95 GeneJockey

I had a conversation with a wingnut the other day where she flatly denied that anyone had ever died in the US because of a lack of access to health care.

I don’t often laugh out loud as a response to foolishness in real life, but I sure did then.

99 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:35:35pm

re: #96 EPR-radar

If the US really does get out of the business of single-handedly trying to solve international problems, that will dramatically increase pressure on the UNSC to get its act together.

Let all the world plainly see that the Russian veto on the UNSC is the reason Assad can use chemical weapons with impunity.

Call me cynical, but I don’t see the UNSC getting off its collective ass to do anything about anything. It seems to me that if we don’t do it, it won’t get done. That means the question for us boils down to, “If nobody else cares, should we?”

100 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:35:38pm

re: #92 GeneJockey

Begins with an ‘R’, ends with an ‘ussia’. And with even the UK not backing it, what’s the point?

I think maybe it’s time to up the ante. Have Obama announce that, since the International Community no longer believes the use of chemical weapons is cause for alarm, we’re going to build a big stockpile.

Yeah, I’m kidding. But it sure seems like nobody gives a flying crap about CWs anymore.

If you can stand some good news, world stockpiles of the worst agents are rapidly diminishing, and it has nothing to do with laws, conventions, or morality. They’re going away because of their inherent characteristics—they’re self-destructive, hellishly expensive to store and move, and they don’t really fit any doctrine for major conflict. They will disappear because almost no one likes them.

*Guarantee does not extend to small doses made in nutcase bathtubs. YMMV.

101 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:37:59pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

I had a conversation with a wingnut the other day where she flatly denied that anyone had ever died in the US because of a lack of access to health care.

I don’t often laugh out loud as a response to foolishness in real life, but I sure did then.

Not only do people die because of a lack of access to healthcare, their deaths are often protracted and very painful.

102 Dr. Matt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:38:17pm
103 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:38:17pm

re: #99 GeneJockey

Call me cynical, but I don’t see the UNSC getting off its collective ass to do anything about anything. It seems to me that if we don’t do it, it won’t get done. That means the question for us boils down to, “If nobody else cares, should we?”

I agree that the UNSC will not change its ways easily or quickly. If the US does nothing, and Assad continues with its atrocities, international pressure to do something will increase.

Let that pressure fall on the UNSC and/or the Arab League.

104 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:38:20pm

re: #98 EPR-radar

I had a conversation with a wingnut the other day where she flatly denied that anyone had ever died in the US because of a lack of access to health care.

I don’t often laugh out loud as a response to foolishness in real life, but I sure did then.

I just shake my head when one of them declares that nobody’s denied care, because they can always go to the ER.

105 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:38:33pm
106 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:39:25pm

re: #101 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not only do people die because of a lack of access to healthcare, their deaths are often protracted and very painful.

And frequently would have been preventable, except many will not go to the ER unless the situation is extremely serious, at which point a condition has usually progressed beyond easy management or elimination.

107 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:39:46pm

re: #106 Eclectic Cyborg

And frequently would have been preventable, except many will not go to the ER unless the situation is extremely serious, at which point a condition has usually progressed beyond easy management or elimination.

^^THIS^^

108 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:40:11pm

re: #104 Targetpractice

I just shake my head when one of them declares that nobody’s denied care, because they can always go to the ER.

Notice how the people who say that, are almost always people who have really good insurance?

109 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:40:37pm

re: #101 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not only do people die because of a lack of access to healthcare, their deaths are often protracted and very painful.

There is no money to be made for preventative foot care for people with diabetes.

Foot amputations are profitable surgical procedures.

A for-profit healthcare system is obviously going to trend in the direction of more amputations.

More blessings of the best health care system in the world ///// to infinity and beyond

110 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:41:53pm

re: #103 EPR-radar

I agree that the UNSC will not change its ways easily or quickly. If the US does nothing, and Assad continues with its atrocities, internal pressure to do something will increase.

Let that pressure fall on the UNSC and/or the Arab League.

My position is starting to tilt that way. Stop trying to push the rope, and get out of the ‘Team America: World Police’ business.

Instead of “America! Fuck yeah!”, more like “America! Fuck Off!”

111 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:42:08pm

re: #104 Targetpractice

I just shake my head when one of them declares that nobody’s denied care, because they can always go to the ER.

This wingnut was extra special. She contended that even with reforms going into place to reduce reliance on ER usage, people would still prefer to go to ERs to “abuse the system” (in some unspecified way).

112 ObserverArt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:42:34pm

re: #14 FemNaziBitch

I am so totally into this.

and you?

Looks like those heels have stealth technology. Is that so you can sneak around and no one will see or hear you coming?

113 Bulworth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:44:47pm

re: #108 Eclectic Cyborg

“The one thing about slavery that separates from other conditions is that those who recommend its virtues are strangely not willing to adopt the condition of slavery themselves.”

Abe Lincoln
True Quotes - approximate.

114 Bulworth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:45:36pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

[moonbat]Illegal! Unconstitutional! Unlawful![/moonbat]

115 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:46:06pm

re: #111 EPR-radar

This wingnut was extra special. She contended that even with reforms going into place to reduce reliance on ER usage, people would still prefer to go to ERs to “abuse the system” (in some unspecified way).

Because The Poors exist to Abuse The System, instead of buying health insurance like responsible white people. You know, poor people are poor because they’re lazy and shiftless irresponsible and don’t work hard. That’s why, in those states where welfare pays more than the minimum wage, we need to make welfare pay LESS, rather than making the minimum wage MORE.

116 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:46:17pm

I gotta say I was against the wellness program at work. Still kinda am because it’s more bent towards punishment than reward. But the required blood test was enough to convince me to lose weight and so far down about 45 lbs.

117 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:46:59pm

re: #115 GeneJockey

If you want a part-time writing gig, the GOP is going to need to draft a platform in 2016.

118 erik_t  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:47:42pm

re: #110 GeneJockey

My position is starting to tilt that way. Stop trying to push the rope, and get out of the ‘Team America: World Police’ business.

Instead of “America! Fuck yeah!”, more like “America! Fuck Off!”

We should continue to be Team America: Ocean Police, because the world economy (and therefore, our economy) is highly dependent on freedom of navigation. So go blow up pirates a-plenty.

But it is becoming hard to convince me that we should punch 100x above anyone else’s weight in somebody’s terrible godawful civil war.

119 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48:06pm

re: #117 EPR-radar

If you want a part-time writing gig, the GOP is going to need to draft a platform in 2016.

Yeah, but they want a stone mason to carve it into tablets for them.

120 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48:25pm

re: #116 Amory Blaine

I gotta say I was against the wellness program at work. Still kinda am because it’s more bent towards punishment than reward. But the required blood test was enough to convince me to lose weight and so far down about 45 lbs.

Reward? You want a reward for not doing what you shouldn’t do? Your reward is not being punished! Stop whining and get back to work!

RAISE? You’re lucky we don’t FIRE you!!
//

121 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:48:52pm

re: #117 EPR-radar

If you want a part-time writing gig, the GOP is going to need to draft a platform in 2016.

If I were applying for said position, I’d struggle given that all the creative writing I’ve done is realistic fiction as opposed to fantasy and horror. Perhaps the GOP should look to hire Stephen King though I’m sure he’d ideologically object being he’s a big liberal.

122 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:49:16pm

re: #119 Kragar

Yeah, but they want a stone mason to carve it into tablets for them.

I have no artistic skills, but I think even I could manage to carve

DERP!

into a stone tablet.

123 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:49:55pm

re: #120 GeneJockey

Reward? You want a reward for not doing what you shouldn’t do? Your reward is not being punished! Stop whining and get back to work!

RAISE? You’re lucky we don’t FIRE you!!
//

I’ll raise the back of my hand if you ask again, you worthless scamp!

124 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:50:36pm

re: #123 Kragar

I’ll raise the back of my hand if you ask again, you worthless scamp!

Ah, so you have experience with giving performance reviews?
//

125 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:50:48pm
126 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:51:14pm

re: #89 Eclectic Cyborg

America does have some of the best healthcare in the world…for those with deep, DEEP pockets.

We have heart attacks and strokes down pat.

I think every EMS and ER worker knows more than many healthcare workers in developed countries.

127 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:51:24pm

re: #121 HappyWarrior

If I were applying for said position, I’d struggle given that all the creative writing I’ve done is fiction as opposed to fantasy and horror. Perhaps the GOP should look to hire Stephen King though I’m sure he’d ideologically object being he’s a big liberal.

Experience writing fiction might be a problem. As Mark Twain said, “Fiction has to make sense.”

128 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:52:07pm

re: #94 Targetpractice

The “peace at any cost” nimrods are starting to rear their heads, and when that happens any sort of reason goes out the window.

Becareful, I think I may be turning in to one of those people.

:0

129 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:52:21pm

re: #127 GeneJockey

Experience writing fiction might be a problem. As Mark Twain said, “Fiction has to make sense.”

Those sounds like the words of someone controlled by demons. America’s best man of words.

130 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:52:57pm

re: #101 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not only do people die because of a lack of access to healthcare, their deaths are often protracted and very painful.

People die like that here, with the best of healthcare sucking every last cent from their insurance policies.

131 ObserverArt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:53:54pm

re: #58 Kragar

90 minutes into the call, the DNS guy who has been telling us the whole time we’ve been doing something wrong since we can’t connect finally checks his information and notices he had added the completely wrong IP address to the work ticket.

BASTARD!

I’m not an IT guy, but did help run a small business network and three database driven web stores. I am amazed how many times it is something as simple as a transposed digit or the like that can cause all kinds of problems.

132 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:54:08pm

re: #106 Eclectic Cyborg

And frequently would have been preventable, except many will not go to the ER unless the situation is extremely serious, at which point a condition has usually progressed beyond easy management or elimination.

And the ER may or may not give you the care you need. They may just send you home with pain pills. No diagnostic tests etc… .

133 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:54:34pm

re: #127 GeneJockey

Experience writing fiction might be a problem. As Mark Twain said, “Fiction has to make sense.”

They’ve got 3 years. If they sat a million gonorrhea-infected lab monkey to IBM Selectrics, they could get something before Clint Eastwood’s next shtick.

134 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:55:42pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

Quite an enigma isn’t it.

135 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:56:01pm

re: #109 EPR-radar

There is no money to be made for preventative foot care for people with diabetes.

Foot amputations are profitable surgical procedures.

A for-profit healthcare system is obviously going to trend in the direction of more amputations.

More blessings of the best health care system in the world ///// to infinity and beyond

Actually, diabetics and those over 65 on medicare can go to the foot doctor once a month to get their toenails cut and feets examined.

One comes around every month the facility where my Mom lives.

136 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:56:03pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Those sounds like the words of someone controlled by demons. America’s best man of words.

Another sign Mark Twain was possessed by demons was his “War Prayer”

midwinter.com

Unpublished during his lifetime, can’t think why.

137 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:56:05pm

re: #128 FemNaziBitch

Becareful, I think I may be turning in to one of those people.

:0

Sadly - and I do mean really, really sadly - Pacifism is one of those things that only works when everyone agrees to it. I come from a family of Pacifists, but I don’t see it working any better than Communism, Anarchy, or Libertarianism, since it involves people.

I’m too misanthropic to be an idealist, I suppose.

138 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:56:48pm

re: #112 ObserverArt

Looks like those heels have stealth technology. Is that so you can sneak around and no one will see or hear you coming?

You know, I hadn’t thought about that! Perhaps Miranda should have worn them at the airport.

139 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:57:20pm

re: #138 FemNaziBitch

You know, I hadn’t thought about that! Perhaps Miranda should have worn them at the airport.

They wouldn’t have gone with the huge fruit hat.

140 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:58:34pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

They’ve got 3 years. If they sat a million gonorrhea-infected lab monkey to IBM Selectrics, they could get something before Clint Eastwood’s next shtick.

Syphilitic monkeys might produce more interesting work, though their spelling would probably suffer over time.

141 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:59:15pm

re: #139 Kragar

They wouldn’t have gone with the huge fruit hat.

Wait, I thought it was DAVID Miranda, not Carmen.

142 Bubblehead II  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:59:45pm

re: #134 Eventual Carrion

Quite an enigma isn’t it.

GG must have thought his encryption was ultra special.

143 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 12:59:58pm

re: #140 GeneJockey

“All I do, is sit down at the typewriter, and start hittin’ the keys. Getting them in the right order, that’s the trick. That’s the trick.”
- Garth Marenghi

144 Political Atheist  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:00:53pm

re: #75 Charles Johnson

Here we go again, by the way.

US and UK Spy Agencies Defeat Privacy and Security on the Internet.

The first Greenwald reports piqued my interest, because if they were true and accurate it really was big news.

Now I just expect that within a day or so, we’ll find out that this article distorted or misrepresented or omitted key facts, like every other one has. Honestly not even very interested in checking.

They’ve cried wolf way too many times.

Wired had a better take on it.

NSA Laughs at PCs,Hacking (foreign) Routers and Switches
The best defense is a good offense. Paged. or direct to Wired…

145 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:01:10pm

re: #141 GeneJockey

Wait, I thought it was DAVID Miranda, not Carmen.

I think they’re related.
/

146 Lidane  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:03:11pm

*sigh*

I am getting frustrated with my job. I like the people and the company, but it’s irritating losing out on major projects because while there might not be a current contract with the company I just talked to, they were a longtime client before that. Ergo, it’s existing business, not new.

I don’t need this sort of irritation right now. Blah.

147 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:03:16pm

re: #136 EPR-radar

Another sign Mark Twain was possess by demons was his “War Prayer”

midwinter.com

Unpublished during his lifetime, can’t think why.

This has been my mood of late:

I have no race prejudices nor caste prejudices nor creed prejudices. All I care to know is that a man is a human being, and that is enough for me; he can’t be any worse.

148 Carlos Danger  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:03:38pm

Haha, Yahoo’s new logo sure riled up the design community.

149 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:06:48pm

re: #130 FemNaziBitch

People die like that here, with the best of healthcare sucking every last cent from their insurance policies.

I was talking about people here.
And you’re also correct about sucking every last cent from people who actually have insurance.
One of the things that pleasantly surprised me recently was getting a letter from our insurance carrier (Lineco union health insurance) informing us that the previous $2 million per year cap on benefits has been abolished; there are no longer any annual or lifetime caps.
Maybe that doesn’t seem like a big deal in normal day-to-day healthcare for most people, but hubs is a power lineman and it would take just one horrific accident (and every day I worry about getting that kind of call…)
I also appreciated that, last year, the union insurance made quite a few things (pap smears, mammograms, bone density, colonoscopy, etc.) free from deductibles and co-pays.
After spending 10 years with no insurance at all, I’m grateful to have it now, especially when hubs and I are both older. I remember how stressful it was when we didn’t have it.

150 Carlos Danger  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:07:48pm

Remember folks, if you have writing talent, it’s obviously because you signed a faustian bargain with Satan.

151 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:09:23pm

re: #137 GeneJockey

Sadly - and I do mean really, really sadly - Pacifism is one of those things that only works when everyone agrees to it. I come from a family of Pacifists, but I don’t see it working any better than Communism, Anarchy, or Libertarianism, since it involves people.

I’m too misanthropic to be an idealist, I suppose.

Well, I believe in the right to self-defense from imminent danger—from a criminal or malicious beastie.

I just don’t see a whole lot of difference in outcomes from one war to the next. (World Wars excepting). Lives are disrupted, children fucked for life. . . bad feelings carried for generations.

152 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:10:46pm

re: #150 Carlos Danger

Remember folks, if you have writing talent, it’s obviously because you signed a faustian bargain with Satan.

Well, I’ve been a professional writer for more than 30 years and I’m here to tell y’all:

Satan doesn’t even pay minimum wage…and there are no cool fringe benefits, just promises…

153 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:11:00pm

re: #149 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was talking about people here.
And you’re also correct about sucking every last cent from people who actually have insurance.
One of the things that pleasantly surprised me recently was getting a letter from our insurance carrier (Lineco union health insurance) informing us that the previous $2 million per year cap on benefits has been abolished; there are no longer any annual or lifetime caps.
Maybe that doesn’t seem like a big deal in normal day-to-day healthcare for most people, but hubs is a power lineman and it would take just one horrific accident (and every day I worry about getting that kind of call…)
I also appreciated that, last year, the union insurance made quite a few things (pap smears, mammograms, bone density, colonoscopy, etc.) free from deductibles and co-pays.
After spending 10 years with no insurance at all, I’m grateful to have it now, especially when hubs and I are both older. I remember how stressful it was when we didn’t have it.

I can tell you that when we told the doctors my Dad wanted nothing other than pain meds, they showed visible relief.

One doctor said, “We can do all kinds of crazy things, biopsies and such, but it isn’t going to change the outcome. I’m glad you are abiding by your father’s wishes.”

154 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:11:13pm

re: #152 Backwoods_Sleuth

Well, I’ve been a professional writer for more than 30 years and I’m here to tell y’all:

Satan doesn’t even pay minimum wage…and there are no cool fringe benefits, just promises…

free heat!

155 ObserverArt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:12:32pm

re: #138 FemNaziBitch

You know, I hadn’t thought about that! Perhaps Miranda should have worn them at the airport.

Just one of my observations. I’m good at observing. It sometimes can be problematic though, you see things others don’t and that can be uncomfortable in certain situations. It can also be highly entertaining.

156 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:13:07pm

re: #151 FemNaziBitch

Well, I believe in the right to self-defense from imminent danger—from a criminal or malicious beastie.

I just don’t see a whole lot of difference in outcomes from one war to the next. (World Wars excepting). Lives are disrupted, children fucked for life… bad feelings carried for generations.

Even in cases like the Civil War, you don’t find the descendants of the losers saying, “Christ! Great Grandad fought for THAT? So that rich white folks could enslave black folks and steal their labor? What a stupid idea!!”

No, they fly the damned Stars and Bars, and lie that it wasn’t about slavery, and call it the War of Northern Aggression, more than half seriously.

157 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:13:37pm

re: #155 ObserverArt

Just one of my observations. I’m good at observing. It sometimes can be problematic though, you see things others don’t and that can be uncomfortable in certain situations. It can also be highly entertaining.

Yes, I have that problem as well.

I tend to find humor in situations that I have to explain to others. Those who aren’t creative still can’t understand.

158 dog philosopher  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:14:21pm

re: #150 Carlos Danger

Remember folks, if you have writing talent, it’s obviously because you signed a faustian bargain with Satan.

even worse, being well educated enough to know the faust legend condemns you in the eyes of the faithful raht theyr

159 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:14:48pm

re: #157 FemNaziBitch

Yes, I have that problem as well.

I tend to find humor in situations that I have to explain to others. Those who aren’t creative still can’t understand.

I learned long ago what things I need to laugh silently at, because explaining them often fails.

160 sagehen  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:15:13pm

re: #109 EPR-radar

There is no money to be made for preventative foot care for people with diabetes.

Foot amputations are profitable surgical procedures.

A for-profit healthcare system is obviously going to trend in the direction of more amputations.

More blessings of the best health care system in the world ///// to infinity and beyond

There’s plenty of money to be made in preventive foot care for people with diabetes… but it’s not an *EMERGENCY* and so not covered by EMTLA and poor people can’t access that care. There’s no profit in amputations, because they’re only necessary for people who couldn’t afford the preventive care, and certainly can’t pay a hospital bill or a surgeon, so it ends up being part of the uncompensated care that the hospital has to beg the state to help cover.

And then the state also ends up with one more person on disability and medicaid and food stamps, and WalMart or McDonald’s or the lettuce grower or whoever has to replace a worker.

161 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:16:00pm

Just a drive by. Busy day.

I didn’t know if this has been posted. Arab countries want to foot the bill if we invade.

Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

Secretary of State John Kerry said at Wednesday’s hearing that Arab counties have offered to pay for the entirety of unseating President Bashar al-Assad if the United States took the lead militarily.

“With respect to Arab countries offering to bear costs and to assess, the answer is profoundly yes,” Kerry said. “They have. That offer is on the table.”

Asked by Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.) about how much those countries would contribute, Kerry said they have offered to pay for all of a full invasion.

“In fact, some of them have said that if the United States is prepared to go do the whole thing the way we’ve done it previously in other places, they’ll carry that cost,” Kerry said. “That’s how dedicated they are at this. That’s not in the cards, and nobody’s talking about it, but they’re talking in serious ways about getting this done.

162 bratwurst  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:16:12pm
163 Kragar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:17:19pm

re: #146 Lidane

*sigh*

I am getting frustrated with my job. I like the people and the company, but it’s irritating losing out on major projects because while there might not be a current contract with the company I just talked to, they were a longtime client before that. Ergo, it’s existing business, not new.

I don’t need this sort of irritation right now. Blah.

One of the reasons I’m looking around is there is no possibility for any real advancement here because they only promote people from the East Coast offices.

“Yeah, you’ve been on the team 6 years, and she’s been here 2, but we can grab her anytime to pull into the office and ask her stuff.”
“You realize she answers those questions by going to the phone and asking me what to do?”
“Well yes, but she is here in the office, you see.”

164 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:18:37pm

re: #153 FemNaziBitch

I can tell you that when we told the doctors my Dad wanted nothing other than pain meds, they showed visible relief.

One doctor said, “We can do all kinds of crazy things, biopsies and such, but it isn’t going to change the outcome. I’m glad you are abiding by your father’s wishes.”

Same thing with my mother-in-law. She wanted no more hospitals, just hospice care and pain meds at home, so that’s what we did. The last couple of days in her life, she was screaming in pain and the hospice nurses told father-in-law to give her the morphine whenever she asked for it. That last night, she was pain-free and was able to briefly talk with dad before drifting off to sleep.
She was a wonderful woman and left with her dignity intact and with all of our love.

165 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:19:21pm

re: #161 NJDhockeyfan

Just a drive by. Busy day.

I didn’t know if this has been posted. Arab countries want to foot the bill if we invade.

Kerry: Arab countries offered to pay for invasion

So we’re not the world’s policemen—we’re Paulie Walnuts?

166 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:20:16pm

re: #162 bratwurst

[moonbat] I suppose the NSA could properly disband itself. Can’t really see anything else it should be doing. [/moonbat]

167 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:21:14pm

re: #165 Decatur Deb

So we’re not the world’s policemen—we’re Paulie Walnuts?

I’m not fond of the US as world policeman concept.

The world leg-breaker for hire model is even less appealing.

168 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:21:16pm

re: #156 GeneJockey

Even in cases like the Civil War, you don’t find the descendants of the losers saying, “Christ! Great Grandad fought for THAT? So that rich white folks could enslave black folks and steal their labor? What a stupid idea!!”

No, they fly the damned Stars and Bars, and lie that it wasn’t about slavery, and call it the War of Northern Aggression, more than half seriously.

I think it’s insane that it had to be fought at all. I think it’s insane that one human things they have the right to own another human.

I know it’s a pollyanna way to think, yet if we spent 1/10 of the money we spend on war on education —silly me, I think it might actually work. We would have a more peaceful, less greedy world in which individuals would be less likely to objectify other human beings.

WE have every thing we need to ensure that EACH child learns to read at a functional level, everything but the will. We are wasting the best resource we have for peace.

Please remember I’m working from the definition of Peace: Pacem in Terris . It’s not unicorns and lollipops.

169 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:21:55pm

re: #159 GeneJockey

I learned long ago what things I need to laugh silently at, because explaining them often fails.

I’ve become very British in those situations. One can’t tell when they are laughing or not …

170 ObserverArt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:23:03pm

re: #157 FemNaziBitch

Yes, I have that problem as well.

I tend to find humor in situations that I have to explain to others. Those who aren’t creative still can’t understand.

I learned early on that just because someone has eyes doesn’t mean they can see.

171 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:25:20pm

re: #90 freetoken

Reading the comments at TPM, I see that the imaginations are running free.

It’s kind of wild to see supposedly “progressives” defend Putin.

We have reached the derpularity.

It is different in terms of what is going on in Syria, but is what China and/or Russia doing any different than what the US has done regarding the many noxious resolutions regarding Israel?

172 ObserverArt  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:28:12pm

re: #159 GeneJockey

I learned long ago what things I need to laugh silently at, because explaining them often fails.

Or, if explained, gets you in trouble.

173 Lidane  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:31:53pm

re: #163 Kragar

One of the reasons I’m looking around is there is no possibility for any real advancement here because they only promote people from the East Coast offices.

“Yeah, you’ve been on the team 6 years, and she’s been here 2, but we can grab her anytime to pull into the office and ask her stuff.”
“You realize she answers those questions by going to the phone and asking me what to do?”
“Well yes, but she is here in the office, you see.”

My experience just now:

“Yes, we know that this company cancelled their contract with us months ago and that they’re technically not our client anymore, but they were a client for years and years and this manager in this office here on the West Coast worked with them for a long time first. Write an email to the person you talked to introducing her, please.”

Considering the sheer amount of work they were asking for, I just signed over what will most likely be six figures in sales. Sales that would’ve easily helped me hit my quota for the year. It’s going to piss me off to see that other manager’s daily reports when she generates the proposals and/or wins the orders for this company. I just know it.

So far this year, I’ve ended up either doing multi-million dollar RFP proposals that consume my life for weeks on end but which ultimately lead nowhere, or I get small, piddly projects that are a tiny fraction of what I need to sell in a year. At least I’m already profitable since I’ve sold more than my base salary for the year, but it’s been a slow drip ever since. GAH.

174 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:32:49pm

re: #168 FemNaziBitch

I think it’s insane that it had to be fought at all. I think it’s insane that one human things they have the right to own another human.

It is insane that people at the time used scripture to justify it. It is completely mindblowingly batshit crazy that some today say things like “There were black slaveowners, so slavery wasn’t a racist institution”, or that slavery was good for blacks, because it got them out of Africa.

I know it’s a pollyanna way to think, yet if we spent 1/10 of the money we spend on war on education —silly me, I think it might actually work. We would have a more peaceful, less greedy world in which individuals would be less likely to objectify other human beings.

WE have every thing we need to ensure that EACH child learns to read at a functional level, everything but the will. We are wasting the best resource we have for peace.

Please remember I’m working from the definition of Peace: Pacem in Terris . It’s not unicorns and lollipops.

Hence my misanthropy. All this is true - we have all the resources we need, but it’s not even the lack of will - we can’t even agree on the need, or what an education should include. Too many fear that their children, if too well educated, won’t agree with them.

175 GeneJockey  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:33:24pm

re: #172 ObserverArt

Or, if explained, gets you in trouble.

Yeah, there’s that, too.

176 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:37:30pm

re: #174 GeneJockey

Too many fear that their children, if too well educated, won’t agree with them.

QFT

177 EPR-radar  Thu, Sep 5, 2013 1:41:52pm

re: #174 GeneJockey

The present-day US neo-confederates have managed to sour my previously low view of the US confederacy significantly further with their disgusting apologetics for slavery.

By now, I’m comfortably of the opinion that the crimes of Confederacy deserved a military occupation much longer and more severe than what actually happened.

Only the stubborn fact that such occupation would most likely not have succeeded in really de-confederating the US south prevents me from wanting to rewrite history along these lines.

That’s one of the hardest things about making peace —- atrocities usually have to be overlooked, and the parties to peace agreements are often unrepentant about their own actions.


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