FRC’s Perkins brilliant plan - use Obamacare funds to bomb Syria

The GOP is a Terrorist Organization
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Tony Perkins, leader of the hate group Family Research Council, has a brilliant suggestion for funding the Syrian bombing campaign - strip it from Obamacare:

After Jordan insisted that the GOP-led House should strip funding from Obamacare by using the budget and debt ceiling debates as leverage, the Religious Right leader came up with a brilliant plan to tell President Obama that Congress will only approve military action against Syria if the money comes out of Obamacare: “You could even take it to the issue of Syria. If the President wants to expend resources in going into Syria, maybe you should have to choose between funding Obamacare and funding a war in Syria, can’t do both.”

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196 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 1:21:08pm

Tony “I used David Duke’s mailing list” Perkins say what? This is stupid and not how policy works but Perkins knows this. He’s just a pathetic sexually repressed troll.

2 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 2:50:30pm

So basically, Perkins wants to see a lot of people die either way.

Some Christian.

3 darthstar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 2:55:17pm

I’m surprised they don’t call it Benghazicare.

4 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 2:57:13pm

My modest proposal would be for a war tax to fund this, which ought to be SOP for any non-emergency US war anyway.

5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 2:58:47pm

O/T but McCain is now for legalizing pot

6 darthstar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 2:59:47pm

My wife spent a large part of yesterday Ubering herself, her boss, and a few of her management team around the city. Said she felt like a rock star.

7 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 2:59:48pm

Fuck you Tony. Spoken like someone who has enough money socked away that an illness won’t bother him. Did I say, Fuck you Tony? Yep.

The husband’s work insurance just kicked in on the 1st. As a result, he’s now bringing home 650 dollars a week. And working 70-80 hours. On salary. No overtime, no bonuses, nada. That’s not a lot of money for a family with a mortgage who aren’t living the high life by any stretch.

25 yrs experience. His longest period of unemployment in that whole time is 6 months. He’s a proud worker, he likes working, the man is not even remotely lazy. No one’s ever handed him a thing, he’s worked his ass off for everything we have. I have too. And it means NOTHING to employers. And this asshole is talking about taking the tiniest of health expense breaks away from people for war? Seriously, did I mention FUCK YOU TONY!?

God this pisses me off.

8 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:01:15pm

Better still, revoke FRC’s tax-exempt status and apply that money towards both.

9 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:03:15pm

re: #5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

O/T but McCain is now for legalizing pot

Gotta do something to mellow out those raging wingnuts.

“I was going to bomb Assad but I was high…”

10 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:03:44pm

Tony, do you really think the GOP want to have that conversation in front of the kids? To argue that the only way you go to war is by paying for it upfront, whether it be defunding a major program the sitting president supports or taking funds from something he supports to cover the cost?

Please, proceed.

11 darthstar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:05:40pm
12 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:05:52pm

re: #10 Targetpractice

Tony, do you really think the GOP want to have that conversation in front of the kids? To argue that the only way you go to war is by paying for it upfront, whether it be defunding a major program the sitting president supports or taking funds from something he supports to cover the cost?

Please, proceed.

This hadn’t occurred to me. It’s probably why even the stupidest and most malicious of the GOP congress critters don’t appear to be going there.

13 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:10:32pm

re: #7 A Mom Anon

Fuck you Tony. Spoken like someone who has enough money socked away that an illness won’t bother him. Did I say, Fuck you Tony? Yep.

The husband’s work insurance just kicked in on the 1st. As a result, he’s now bringing home 650 dollars a week. And working 70-80 hours. On salary. No overtime, no bonuses, nada. That’s not a lot of money for a family with a mortgage who aren’t living the high life by any stretch.

25 yrs experience. His longest period of unemployment in that whole time is 6 months. He’s a proud worker, he likes working, the man is not even remotely lazy. No one’s ever handed him a thing, he’s worked his ass off for everything we have. I have too. And it means NOTHING to employers. And this asshole is talking about taking the tiniest of health expense breaks away from people for war? Seriously, did I mention FUCK YOU TONY!?

God this pisses me off.

I’m sorry, did you say FUCK YOU? It sounded like you said FUCK YOU.

14 Quicklund  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:12:05pm

No one has ever gone broke betting against American conservatives finding a way to get stupider. And no one probably ever will. Not at least in the foreseeable future.

15 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:13:50pm

re: #13 wrenchwench

Just in case you might have missed it, shhh, listen….FUCK YOU TONY PERKINS YOU SELFISH ASSHOLE. Shh, don’t tell anyone. Oh hell, just throw rusty farm implements in with that mix too. Fucker.

LOL.

16 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:16:57pm

re: #5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

O/T but McCain is now for legalizing pot

i guess you get tired of being a senator when you get to be about 4000 years old

17 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:17:01pm

re: #12 EPR-radar

This hadn’t occurred to me. It’s probably why even the stupidest and most malicious of the GOP congress critters don’t appear to be going there.

Oh, I’m sure it’s percolating in the back of their minds and the braver of the rowdy children are openly suggesting it. But the leadership seems to believe they have a dynamite plan in just suggesting that the case hasn’t been made to authorization military strikes and so killing the bill while declaring they’re just fulfilling the “will of the people.”

18 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:19:53pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

Oh, I’m sure it’s percolating in the back of their minds and the braver of the rowdy children are openly suggesting it. But the leadership seems to believe they have a dynamite plan in just suggesting that the case hasn’t been made to authorization military strikes and so killing the bill while declaring they’re just fulfilling the “will of the people.”

If the polling numbers for Syria intervention don’t significantly move, the GOP will have much more than enough political cover for this strategy.

19 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:20:37pm

i met this guy who told me he was feckless

so i told him to get fecked

20 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:22:45pm

re: #19 dog philosopher

i met this guy who told me he was feckless

so i told him to get fecked

I would have said Go feck yourself.

21 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:23:25pm

re: #18 EPR-radar

If the polling numbers for Syria intervention don’t significantly move, the GOP will have much more than enough political cover for this strategy.

The problem, as noted on Saturday, is that such a strategy leaves the GOP in the position of taking the blame for America’s inaction. Obama has forces ready to go, has stated he believes he has the authority, but has bowed to Republican insistence that the President must seek Congressional approval for any and all military operations. By killing the bill by declaring that the case has not been made, the GOP will be left explaining to the American people why allowing Assad to continue to gas his people is preferable to intervention in any fashion. As well as the possibility of such weapons ending up in possession of extremists should the government fall.

22 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:28:49pm

i cried because i could only afford the tuna noodle casserole until it met the man who got scrod

23 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:29:08pm

re: #2 Eclectic Cyborg

So basically, Perkins wants to see a lot of people die either way.

Some Christian.

I’d say the “Family” part of his organization’s name is horseshit, too.

24 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:30:14pm

re: #23 BongCrodny

I’d say the “Family” part of his organization’s name is horseshit, too.

Also the case with most organizations who use the words “Freedom”, “Patriots” or “Liberty” in their name.

25 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:30:53pm

i cried because i had no trolls until i met a man who had no tweets

26 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:33:47pm

re: #24 Eclectic Cyborg

Also the case with most organizations who use the words “Freedom”, “Patriots” or “Liberty” in their name.

Including the New England franchise.

27 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:35:48pm

re: #21 Targetpractice

The problem, as noted on Saturday, is that such a strategy leaves the GOP in the position of taking the blame for America’s inaction. Obama has forces ready to go, has stated he believes he has the authority, but has bowed to Republican insistence that the President must seek Congressional approval for any and all military operations. By killing the bill by declaring that the case has not been made, the GOP will be left explaining to the American people why allowing Assad to continue to gas his people is preferable to intervention in any fashion. As well as the possibility of such weapons ending up in possession of extremists should the government fall.

I can certainly live with the GOP owning unfavorable consequences of US inaction. It will be interesting to see if the GOP tries to avoid this.

However, if intervention continues to poll unfavorably, there may not be much real risk for the GOP in blocking intervention (especially if the congressional Dems split on the issue).

28 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:35:49pm

re: #26 Decatur Deb

Including the New England franchise.

Yep, it’s definitely football season. :P

(I’m with you, Tom Brady just irks me for some reason)

29 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:37:38pm

re: #23 BongCrodny

I’d say the “Family” part of his organization’s name is horseshit, too.

America really is exceptional. Where else in the world does inclusion of the word “family” in the name of a political action group correlate so well with it being a hate group?

30 DaveBarnes  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:44:40pm

I love this proposal from Tony [party = douchebag] Perkins.
1. Obamacare is not going to be defunded.
2. Therefore, we will not be killing Syrians.
Works for me.

31 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:44:42pm

Anyone expect Boehner to rally votes for Syria?

32 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:47:36pm

I wonder if Syrians were made eligible for Obamacare, would the wingnuts agree to a strike then?

33 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:48:16pm

re: #31 Amory Blaine

Anyone expect Boehner to rally votes for Syria?

A gesture. The more he invests, the greater the embarrassment.

34 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:50:30pm

re: #31 Amory Blaine

Anyone expect Boehner to rally votes for Syria?

the syria issue will:

1) kill obama’s presidency
2) split the republican party
3) split the democratic party
4) fade away with no effect once topic a changes to something else
5) fish

multiple choice allowed

35 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:50:33pm

re: #31 Amory Blaine

Anyone expect Boehner to rally votes for Syria?

I imagine he’ll push forward with speaking out of both sides of his mouth, saying he supports authorization but he thinks the president needs to make the case for authorization. He’ll allow the bill to go to the floor, knowing it’ll fail, with the hope that nobody will call him on the violation of the “Hastert Rule” to do so.

36 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:51:49pm

re: #34 dog philosopher

the syria issue will:

1) kill obama’s presidency
2) split the republican party
3) split the democratic party
4) fade away with no effect once topic a changes to something else
5) fish

multiple choice allowed

RON RAND PAUL

37 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:52:14pm

re: #36 Decatur Deb

lol

38 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:52:43pm

re: #36 Decatur Deb

RON RAND PAUL

so then, uh, “fish”

39 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:53:16pm

re: #31 Amory Blaine

Anyone expect Boehner to rally votes for Syria?

Nope, nobody expects that.

It’s a safe guess that OFA’s hands-off stance isn’t exactly what Speaker John Boehner had in mind when he said on Tuesday that he supported the president’s planned Syrian strike but that it was up to the president to do the hard lobbying needed to get the votes in Congress.

It’s going to be really hard for the “massive Republican fail” theme to take hold on this one. Obama fumbled, probably not enough support among Dems to pass a resolution even with Republican help. I’m really not happy with this, it’s a clusterfuck, it’s embarrassing and it’s likely to cause a lot of problems down the road.

40 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:53:27pm

re: #34 dog philosopher

the syria issue will:

1) kill obama’s presidency
2) split the republican party
3) split the democratic party
4) fade away with no effect once topic a changes to something else
5) fish

multiple choice allowed

6) Benghazi!

41 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:55:15pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Nope, nobody expects that.

It’s going to be really hard for the “massive Republican fail” theme to take hold on this one. Obama fumbled, probably not enough support among Dems to pass a resolution even with Republican help. I’m really not happy with this, it’s a clusterfuck, it’s embarrassing and it’s likely to cause a lot of problems down the road.

Oops, forgot the link for that one…
Opponents of Syria Strikes Gain Edge In Lobbying Fight
Move On and FreedomWorks are on the same side on this one. They are very happy with the results.

42 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:55:43pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Nope, nobody expects that.

It’s going to be really hard for the “massive Republican fail” theme to take hold on this one. Obama fumbled, probably not enough support among Dems to pass a resolution even with Republican help. I’m really not happy with this, it’s a clusterfuck, it’s embarrassing and it’s likely to cause a lot of problems down the road.

What would have been your preferred course?

43 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:56:17pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

That’s the way it looks to me as well. As long as Americans are made clear that their shining city on the hill myth will most definitely die with no punishment for WMDs. Message is loud and clear.

44 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:56:22pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Oops, forgot the link for that one…
Opponents of Syria Strikes Gain Edge In Lobbying Fight
Move On and FreedomWorks are on the same side on this one. They are very happy with the results.

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

45 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:57:28pm

re: #43 Amory Blaine

That’s the way it looks to me as well. As long as Americans are made clear that their shining city on the hill myth will most definitely die with no punishment for WMDs. Message is loud and clear.

It died at Mai Lai.

46 darthstar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:58:59pm

Dear tourists…Shasta Lake drops at about six inches a day this time of year as we prepare for the winter. Please make a note of it, especially if you’re sleeping over.

Image: 1236135_10202090967940746_388513632_n.jpg

47 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 3:59:57pm

assad is safe until he tries to raise taxes on gun sales or capital gains

48 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:02:51pm

Some serious derp on the anti-interventionist side.

49 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:03:32pm
50 b.d.  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:04:44pm

Jesus shall return and one of the 1st things he is going to do is kick Tony Perkin’s ass.

51 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:04:53pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

So does Vegas.

52 b.d.  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:05:46pm

re: #49 bratwurst

Get the US out of Africa!!1!

53 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:06:46pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

just as long as lindsay graham doesn’t get nancy pelosi pregnant

54 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:06:46pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

…

It’s going to be really hard for the “massive Republican fail” theme to take hold on this one. Obama fumbled, probably not enough support among Dems to pass a resolution even with Republican help. I’m really not happy with this, it’s a clusterfuck, it’s embarrassing and it’s likely to cause a lot of problems down the road.

I agree that if authorization does not pass, the no votes are likely to be bipartisan enough that both parties will own the result (assuming no stupid pet trick by the GOP like the Hastert rule).

Fine by me. This is a close call with good arguments to be made both for and against intervention. The best evidence available is put on the table, Congress votes, we move on. That’s how things are supposed to work.

I disagree that events so far show some unusual blunder or clusterfuck by the Obama administration.

Obama would have blundered, IMO, if he had gone in without seeking authorization. Clusterfuck territory would be entered if Obama intervenes even after a vote in Congress against intervention.

55 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:09:12pm

re: #48 Gus

Some serious derp on the anti-interventionist side.

One pro-interventionist has jumped ship.

Last week, I wrote a piece on the reasons to intervene in Syria. I did what critics of an intervention asked, and provided two goals for U.S. action and a way forward. Since then, I have changed my mind: the time has passed, and the window for an effective intervention in Syria has closed. Even if the President were not about to lose a vote in Congress — which, it seems, is now likely — it’s time to let it go, at least for now.

[…]

It is of medium length (I haven’t finished reading it).

56 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:09:33pm

re: #54 EPR-radar

I agree that if authorization does not pass, the no votes are likely to be bipartisan enough that both parties will own the result (assuming no stupid pet trick by the GOP like the Hastert rule).

Fine by me. This is a close call with good arguments to be made both for and against intervention. The best evidence available is put on the table, Congress votes, we move on. That’s how things are supposed to work.

I disagree that events so far show some unusual blunder or clusterfuck by the Obama administration.

Obama would have blundered, IMO, if he had gone in without seeking authorization. Clusterfuck territory would be entered if Obama intervenes even after a vote in Congress against intervention.

The passive-aggressive “critics” are whining both that Obama didn’t go to war when he already has forces at the ready and that he didn’t go seeking authorization sooner. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

57 Mattand  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:09:57pm

re: #54 EPR-radar

I agree that if authorization does not pass, the no votes are likely to be bipartisan enough that both parties will own the result (assuming no stupid pet trick by the GOP like the Hastert rule).

Fine by me. This is a close call with good arguments to be made both for and against intervention. The best evidence available is put on the table, Congress votes, we move on. That’s how things are supposed to work.

I disagree that events so far show some unusual blunder or clusterfuck by the Obama administration.

Obama would have blundered, IMO, if he had gone in without seeking authorization. Clusterfuck territory would be entered if Obama intervenes even after a vote in Congress against intervention.

It’s an Obama clusterfuck if you have a Magic Balance Fairy jones to satisfy.

58 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:11:45pm

re: #56 Targetpractice

The passive-aggressive “critics” are whining both that Obama didn’t go to war when he already has forces at the ready and that he didn’t go seeking authorization sooner. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

These critics are being idiots. I have no real beef with what has happened so far. Evidence for Assad’s use of CW has been mounting over time. At some point, one takes it seriously and makes the case to Congress and the people.

59 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:14:05pm

re: #55 wrenchwench

One pro-interventionist has jumped ship.

It is of medium length (I haven’t finished reading it).

So he joins John Schindler. Not derp of course.

60 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:14:34pm

re: #42 Targetpractice

What would have been your preferred course?

I think if he changed his mind it would have been better to say he changed his mind about the attack and give a reason. Instead it appears he changed his mind and wants to share political cover for not attacking. I’ve been against the attack but not terribly passionate about it. I have no problem with a change of mind but the indecision and political floundering looks weak. Assad is going to feel comfortable and safe in future attacks and use of chemical weapons. Iran is going to feel safe continuing its nuclear program. Do or do not, there is no try.

61 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:14:43pm

Gee, I wonder why Israel would have an interest in Syria. Oh! I know! They share a border!

62 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:15:16pm

re: #58 EPR-radar

These critics are being idiots. I have no real beef with what has happened so far. Evidence for Assad’s use of CW has been mounting over time. At some point, one takes it seriously and makes the case to Congress and the people.

When the “critics” are either emoprogs or closeted wingnuts, it’s easy to argue that no matter what course he takes, he’s screwed up. He goes without approval, he’s a “warmonger.” He seeks approval, he looks “weak.” He doesn’t do anything, he’s “weak.” If he goes to the UN, he’s “weak.” The far-left want to see him as another Dubya and the far-right want to portray him as such so as to argue that either anybody who opposed Dubya must oppose Obama or admit Dubya made the “right calls.”

In short, it’s the same group of fuckheads who approach every action taken by this administration from the position of finding the fault in whatever he does and never acknowledging if he makes a good call.

63 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:16:02pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

I think if he changed his mind it would have been better to say he changed his mind about the attack and give a reason. Instead it appears he changed his mind and wants to share political cover for not attacking. I’ve been against the attack but not terribly passionate about it. I have no problem with a change of mind but the indecision and political floundering looks weak. Assad is going to feel comfortable and safe in future attacks and use of chemical weapons. Iran is going to feel safe continuing its nuclear program. Do or do not, there is no try.

So instead of changing his mind and not saying it, thus emboldening Syria and Iran, you would have preferred he change his mind and say it aloud, which wouldn’t embolden them?

64 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:16:36pm

Lol.

65 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:16:52pm

re: #59 Gus

So he joins John Schindler. Not derp of course.

I share my misgivings here.

66 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:17:55pm

clusterfuck

i still tend to think that this issue is not going to look the same in six months as it does right now

67 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:18:12pm

re: #63 Targetpractice

So instead of changing his mind and not saying it, thus emboldening Syria and Iran, you would have preferred he change his mind and say it aloud, which wouldn’t embolden them?

Also, Obama’s stated reason for going to Congress for Syria is that we are stronger when the Executive and Congress act together.

This is a bit more than just some fluff cooked up to provide a cover story.

68 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:18:18pm

re: #61 Gus

Gee, I wonder why Israel would have an interest in Syria. Oh! I know! They share a border!

I watched a bit of Alan Grayson doing the AIPAC boogaloo on Democracy Now. The creeps at Mondowiess are very excited.

69 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:18:24pm
70 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:19:09pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

I share my misgivings here.

Try and find Joshu Foust’s early take. Against. He was rational too. I hate hyperbole. If someone can argue against intervention fine but spare me the hyperbole and false equivalencies.

71 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:20:45pm

re: #68 Killgore Trout

I watched a bit of Alan Grayson doing the AIPAC boogaloo on Democracy Now. The creeps at Mondowiess are very excited.

I’m still boggled that RedState (!!) is also doing the AIPAC dance on this issue.

72 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:21:06pm

Actually, worse than hyperbole is the hyperventilation.

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:22:15pm

Oh, no… they’ve been looking for this guy for a week. 280 people were out there this morning. They found his body.

Friday September 6 2013 - 4:45 pm

We are sad to announce that the body of Jemez Ranger District Engine Captain Token Adams has been located. Token was dispatched to locate a smoke reported on Friday August 30 2013. Search efforts began late Friday afternoon and continued through this morning when his body was discovered.

Token was an Engine Captain working in Jemez Springs NM. He was 41 years old and had been an Engine Captain on the Jemez Ranger District for 1 1/2 years. He was a wildland firefighter for 10 years including previous experience as a hotshot. Before coming to the Forest Service Token served in the U.S. Navy. Token grew up in the community of Coarsegold California and was a 1990 graduate of Yosemite High School in Oakhurst California.

Token is survived by his wife Heidi a 3 year old son Tristan his mother a brother and sister. Token’s wife Heidi is expecting their second child.

All public and media are asked to please respect the privacy of the firefighter’s family during this time of mourning. We will release all details of this tragedy when more information becomes available.

TV station said his ATV crashed.

74 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:23:36pm

re: #72 Gus

Actually, worse than hyperbole is the hyperventilation.

imma move to england where i can practice my hypobole

75 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:24:53pm

My Apologies To Rep. Alan Grayson

I have written many times that Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) was an AIPAC dupe, kind of a House version of Al Franken.

In fact, he gave plenty of reasons for me think so.

But now he has become a hero. He is fighting AIPAC on its Syria war resolution. Not only that, he is calling AIPAC out by name, saying that AIPAC “falls by the wayside” when the American public weighs in.

Bravo, Rep. Grayson, whose district is in south Florida of all places.

If the peace forces win, he will be a big part of the reason.

I am so happy to have been wrong about him.

Apologies also to Zaid Jilani who told me I was wrong about Grayson.

MJayRosenberg

76 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:25:39pm

People really need Israel’s interest in this?

77 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:26:15pm

re: #75 Gus

‘Peace forces’?
Give me a fucking break.

78 Kragar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:27:36pm

re: #77 Pavlovian Hive Mind

‘Peace forces’?
Give me a fucking break.

Peace Forces, working hard to allow the gassing of civilians around the world

79 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:27:55pm

re: #75 Gus

AIPAC dupe

people who talk like this give me a gigantic pain

80 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:27:57pm

re: #71 EPR-radar

I’m still boggled that RedState (!!) is also doing the AIPAC dance on this issue.

Probably due to the influence of Ron Pal/Alex Jones nutcases. Cross contamination from the Tea Party days.

81 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:28:43pm

re: #75 Gus

My Apologies To Rep. Alan Grayson

MJayRosenberg

lol

82 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:33:55pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

I share my misgivings here.

It’s a truly messed-up, maddeningly complex situation, desptie how soimple some try to make it sound. I’ve spent part of my Friday unfollowing Muslims on Twitter who are comparing President Obama to President Bush, while not uttering a single peep of criticism at the lack of help from Muslim countries. WTF, people? *sigh*

In other news, it seems like the Snowden bromance is (finally) starting to sour for some. I wonder if he’s been attacked by GG yet for his heresy. Emphasis added:

Snowden Disclosures Finally Hit 12 on a Scale of 1 to 10
—By Kevin Drum | Fri Sep. 6, 2013 11:19 AM PDT

[…] For what it’s worth, this is about the point where I get off the Snowden train. It’s true that some of these disclosures are of clear public interest. In particular, I’m thinking about the details of NSA efforts to infiltrate and corrupt the standards setting groups that produce commercial crypto schemes.

But the rest of it is a lot more dubious. It’s not clear to me how disclosing NSA’s decryption breakthroughs benefits the public debate much, unlike previous disclosures that have raised serious questions about the scope and legality of NSA’s surveillance of U.S. persons. Conversely, it’s really easy to see how disclosing them harms U.S. efforts to keep up our surveillance on genuine bad guys. Unlike previous rounds of disclosures, I’m a lot less certain that this one should have seen the light of day.

motherjones.com

83 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:34:13pm

Fucking capitalist pigs.

U.S. clears China’s Shuanghui to acquire Smithfield Foods

money.cnn.com

84 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:35:35pm

re: #76 Gus

People really need Israel’s interest in this?

[Embedded content]

They have an interest, but do they have a ‘win’? Their English-language press has been pretty restrained.

85 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:36:33pm

re: #82 CuriousLurker

It’s a truly messed-up, maddeningly complex situation, desptie how soimple some try to make it sound. I’ve spent part of my Friday unfollowing Muslims on Twitter who are comparing President Obama to President Bush, while not uttering a single peep of criticism at the lack of help from Muslim countries. WTF, people? *sigh*

In other news, it seems like the Snowden bromance is (finally) starting to sour for some. I wonder if he’s been attacked by GG yet for his heresy. Emphasis added:

That’s significant that Drum is dropping off the Snowden train, since Mother Jones and Glenn Greenwald share a funding source.

86 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:38:03pm
87 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:38:48pm

re: #82 CuriousLurker

Here’s a replacement for some of your lost Tweeps. So far, eminently sane.

88 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:39:39pm

re: #87 wrenchwench

Here’s a replacement for some of your lost Tweeps. So far, eminently sane.

[Embedded content]

Thanks, already been following her for a while. ;)

89 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:40:01pm

re: #83 Justanotherhuman

Ha ha yep. Patrick Cudahy is one of their interests here in Milwaukee. The Chinese now own our bacon.

90 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:41:20pm
91 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:44:00pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

[Embedded content]

I’ll be able to see it when it launches spins.

92 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:44:54pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

[Embedded content]

Image: moon-052809.jpg

93 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:45:02pm

re: #91 Pavlovian Hive Mind

I’ll be able to see it when it launches spins.

Pretty much the whole Northeast and Mid-Atlantic.

94 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:45:46pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

lol. That is a good one.

95 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:45:49pm

re: #88 CuriousLurker

Thanks, already been following her for a while. ;)

Cool! Didn’t see you in the ‘followers you follow’ list.

96 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:45:52pm

re: #83 Justanotherhuman

Here’s a local take on it from a couple of months ago.

Chinese company to buy parent company of Patrick Cudahy

The Patrick Cudahy meatpacking plant, which traces its history in the Milwaukee area to the 19th century, may soon be owned by the Chinese.

The plant is part of a proposed $4.72 billion deal that would be the biggest purchase ever of a U.S. company by interests in China. The deal calls for Patrick Cudahy’s parent company, Smithfield Foods, to be purchased by Shuanghui International Holdings Ltd., the majority shareholder in China’s largest meat processor.

The proposal led to some perplexed reactions about the prospect of Sweet Applewood Smoked Bacon soon being owned by a company in one of the last bastions of Communism on the globe, a country that brought the world cheap labor and outsourced jobs.

97 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:47:00pm

re: #96 Amory Blaine

Here’s a local take on it from a couple of months ago.

Chinese company to buy parent company of Patrick Cudahy

I will gladly go on record as saying having the Chinese so involved in our food supply and production makes me very nervous.

98 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:50:00pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

Image: moon-052809.jpg

And all this time I thought the moon was made of cheese… //

99 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:50:00pm

Well it doesn’t bode well if you like bacon, the price of which is pretty sky high already. I think they’re planning on exporting as much as they can.

100 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:50:30pm

I keep looking for good news…

Appeals court says SeaTac voters can decide on $15 minimum wage

blogs.seattletimes.com

101 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:50:32pm

re: #97 Eclectic Cyborg

I will gladly go on record as saying having the Chinese so involved in our food supply and production makes me very nervous.

Because of course, having a country that’s had one product recall after another in charge of our pork supply is totally a smart idea.

////

102 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:51:26pm

re: #97 Eclectic Cyborg

I will gladly go on record as saying having the Chinese so involved in our food supply and production makes me very nervous.

I’m just glad I don’t eat mammals.

103 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:53:13pm

re: #101 Targetpractice

Because of course, having a country that’s had one product recall after another in charge of our pork supply is totally a smart idea.

////

What could possibly go wrong? China is less constrained by the evil influence of regulation on private enterprise than the US is, so Chinese ownership must therefore be a plus. Even better if they start disregarding all those pesky applicable US regulations, thereby improving the product. //dripping

104 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:53:35pm

re: #98 CuriousLurker

And all this time I thought the moon was made of cheese… //

Well it has been known to hit your eye like a big pizza pie…

105 b.d.  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:54:15pm

re: #86 Gus

[Embedded content]

That Corn/Farrow tweet is just strange all the way around.

106 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:54:28pm

re: #101 Targetpractice

Because of course, having a country that’s had one product recall after another in charge of our pork supply is totally a smart idea.

////

Joking aside, I honestly believe there are some industries that foreign interests should be barred from ownership roles, Food chief among them.

107 blueraven  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:56:40pm

re: #105 b.d.

That Corn/Farrow tweet is just strange all the way around.

How so?

108 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:56:51pm

re: #106 Eclectic Cyborg

Joking aside, I honestly believe there are some industries that foreign interests should be barred from ownership roles, Food chief among them.

I don’t know; I’m awfully fond of European made jams—no fructose or corn syrup. Cane sugar only.

109 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 4:59:49pm

G20 ENDS ABRUPTLY AS OBAMA CALLS PUTIN A JACKASS

ST. PETERSBURG (The Borowitz Report)—Hopes for a positive G20 summit crumbled today as President Obama blurted to Russia’s Vladimir Putin at a joint press appearance, “Everyone here thinks you’re a jackass.”

The press corps appeared stunned by the uncharacteristic outburst from Mr. Obama, who then unleashed a ten-minute tirade at the stone-faced Russian President.

“Look, I’m not just talking about Snowden and Syria,” Mr. Obama said. “What about Pussy Riot? What about your anti-gay laws? Total jackass moves, my friend.”

As Mr. Putin narrowed his eyes in frosty silence, Mr. Obama seemed to warm to his topic.

“If you think I’m the only one who feels this way, you’re kidding yourself,” Mr. Obama said, jabbing his finger in the direction of the Russian President’s face. “Ask Angela Merkel. Ask David Cameron. Ask the Turkish guy. Every last one of them thinks you’re a dick.”

Shortly after Mr. Obama’s volcanic performance, Mr. Putin released a terse official statement, reading, “I should be afraid of this skinny man? I wrestle bears.”

After one day of meetings, the G20 nations voted unanimously on a resolution that said maybe everyone should just go home.

Heh.

110 Bubblehead II  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:00:25pm

re: #101 Targetpractice

Because of course, having a country that’s had one product recall after another in charge of our pork supply is totally a smart idea.

////

Pulease. Even if they are owned by a Chinese company, they will still be regulated from A-Z by the USDA and other watchdog groups. I tend to agree with Armory Blaine. They want this company for the above mentioned reason. They will be able to export meat that they know has been raised, slaughtered and packaged in conditions that far exceed those back in in China. The only questions is, Is how much do they export v How much do they sell in Country?

111 b.d.  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:00:26pm

re: #107 blueraven

Just seeing her name out of the blue and the short answer caught me way off guard.

112 Bubblehead II  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:01:38pm

re: #106 Eclectic Cyborg

Joking aside, I honestly believe there are some industries that foreign interests should be barred from ownership roles, Food chief among them.

Followed next by energy.

113 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:01:43pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

Cool! Didn’t see you in the ‘followers you follow’ list.

Oh, wait—that’s a different Hend. I’ve been following @HindMakki. Same name with slightly different spelling, both wear hijab & glasses…duh. *facepalm*

Thanks, following your Hend too now.

114 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:02:20pm

Republicans against war, Chinese bacon, McCain loves weed, Russia is freedom, where the hell am I?

115 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:03:05pm

re: #112 Bubblehead II

Followed next by energy.

I was in CA for our little energy crisis a few years back. I have no love for domestic energy producers.

116 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:03:30pm

re: #114 Amory Blaine

Republicans against war, Chinese bacon, McCain loves weed, Russia is freedom, where the hell am I?

I ain’t done nothing…
..
.
ish…

117 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:04:16pm

re: #109 NJDhockeyfan

Man you always have the best fucking links.

118 Bubblehead II  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:04:18pm

re: #109 NJDhockeyfan

Know it is a farce worthy of the Onion, but only if it was true.

119 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:06:24pm

re: #114 Amory Blaine

Republicans against war, Chinese bacon, McCain loves weed, Russia is freedom, where the hell am I?

No shit, days I feel like I woke up in the Mirror Universe.

120 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:08:13pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

No shit, days I feel like I woke up in the Mirror Universe.

If you have a goatee we’re in trouble…

121 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:08:28pm

re: #109 NJDhockeyfan

Borowitz is on a roll. This is from a few days ago, so it might have already been posted here:

newyorker.com

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Attempting to quell criticism of his proposal for a limited military mission in Syria, President Obama floated a more modest strategy today, saying that any U.S. action in Syria would have “no objective whatsoever.”

“Let me be clear,” he said in an interview on CNN. “Our goal will not be to effect régime change, or alter the balance of power in Syria, or bring the civil war there to an end. We will simply do something random there for one or two days and then leave.”

“I want to reassure our allies and the people of Syria that what we are about to undertake, if we undertake it at all, will have no purpose or goal,” he said. “This is consistent with U.S. foreign policy of the past.”

While Mr. Obama clearly hoped that his proposal of a brief and pointless intervention in Syria would reassure the international community, it immediately drew howls of protest from U.S. allies, who argued that two days was too open-ended a timeframe for such a mission.

That criticism led White House spokesman Jay Carney to brief reporters later in the day, arguing that the President was willing to scale down the U.S. mission to “twenty-four hours, thirty-six tops.”

“It may take twenty-four hours, but it could also take twelve,” Mr. Carney said.

“Maybe we get in there, take a look around, and get out right away. But however long it takes, one thing will not change: this mission will have no point. The President is resolute about that.”

122 Bubblehead II  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:08:40pm

re: #115 EPR-radar

I was in CA for our little energy crisis a few years back. I have no love for domestic energy producers.

Gee. Idaho Power. A subsidiary of Scottish Power.

Think I am overly thrilled with Foriegn Company trying to set my energy rates?

123 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:09:38pm

re: #120 Pavlovian Hive Mind

If you have a goatee we’re in trouble…

YOUR AGONIZER, PLEASE.

Image: HvHSpu9.jpg

124 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:09:40pm

re: #120 Pavlovian Hive Mind

If you have a goatee we’re in trouble…

Now that you mention it…

125 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:09:58pm

Act now to end all wars! Vote no on the Syrian resolution… oops. Wait. There’s a war going on Syria isn’t there? //

126 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:10:05pm

re: #113 CuriousLurker

Oh, wait—that’s a different Hend. I’ve been following @HindMakki. Same name with slightly different spelling, both wear hijab & glasses…duh. *facepalm*

Thanks, following your Hend too now.

Wow, easy mistake to make. Same color hijab, little tiny photos, one different vowel…

127 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:10:08pm

re: #122 Bubblehead II

Gee. Idaho Power. A subsidiary of Scottish Power.

Think I am overly thrilled with Foriegn Company trying to set my enerdy rates?

Public ownership of the means of energy production. //half

128 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:11:41pm

re: #127 EPR-radar

Public ownership of the means of energy production. //half

I’m for pretty much entirely public energy generation, except for a few corner cases.

129 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:12:26pm

WTF?

Iranian diplomat warns that Obama’s daughter will be kidnapped and raped if America attacks Syria

An Iranian strategic expert has warned that one of President Obama’s daughters will be kidnapped and raped if America attacks Syria.

Alireza Forghani, also the former governor of southern Iran’s Kish Province, warned of mass abductions and killings of American citizens worldwide in the event the Obama administration launches a military strike in Syria.

‘Hopefully Obama will be pigheaded enough to attack Syria, and then we will see the … loss of U.S. interests [through terrorist attacks],’ he threatened.

‘In just 21 hours [after the attack on Syria], a family member of every U.S. minister [department secretary], U.S. ambassadors, U.S. military commanders around the world will be abducted. And then 18 hours later, videos of their amputation will be spread [around the world]’ he said reported The Daily Caller.

The threat comes amid reports today that the U.S has intercepted an order from an Iranian official instructing militants in Iraq to attack U.S. interests in Baghdad if the attack goes ahead.

130 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:12:39pm

Pat Buchanan blaming teh Juice… on WND no less.

131 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:13:20pm

Evening.

If you believe that Perkins can outsmart President Obama, you need help. (And may want to buy a bridge I have for sale).

132 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:13:59pm

Poor kids.

Mexico frees 2 men jailed for drugs in US-sold van

bigstory.ap.org

“Federal police in November detained Sergio Torres Duarte, 18, and his friend Julio Cesar Moreno, 19, at a checkpoint near the Pacific Coast resort city of Mazatlan, as they traveled to a soccer match. Officers discovered a kilogram of cocaine hidden under the minivan’s dashboard and booked them at a nearby jail.

“The Torres family bought the vehicle for $3,900 at a U.S. Customs and Border Protection auction in February 2012. After the young men were arrested, they discovered that the blue 2004 Toyota Sienna had been seized by American authorities in October 2011 for hiding bundles of cocaine.”

133 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:14:46pm

re: #128 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m for pretty much entirely public energy generation, except for a few corner cases.

I still can’t believe there are hard-line libertarians in CA after the CA utility privatization debacle. Who needs to reason based on evidence?

134 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:16:12pm

re: #130 Gus

Pat Buchanan blaming teh Juice… on WND no less.

[Embedded content]

Nice to know that even in this topsy-turvy world there are still some things that are reassuringly predictable!

135 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:17:35pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

Jesusfuckingchrist.

136 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:17:40pm

re: #134 bratwurst

Nice to know that even in this topsy-turvy world there are still some things that are reassuringly predictable!

Don’t freaking jinx it!

137 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:18:47pm

re: #136 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Don’t freaking jinx it!

At the rate things are going, the sun won’t come up Monday.

138 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:20:06pm

re: #135 Justanotherhuman

Jesusfuckingchrist.

What a sick motherfucker. May he be the first Iranian governor to meet one of our drones.

139 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:20:13pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?

Iranian diplomat warns that Obama’s daughter will be kidnapped and raped if America attacks Syria

re: #135 Justanotherhuman

Jesusfuckingchrist.

Let’s…uh…consider the source publishing that.

140 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:20:19pm

re: #135 Justanotherhuman

Jesusfuckingchrist.

If true, this Iranian idiot doesn’t know his history. The obliteration of Iran would follow in short order after outrages of such magnitude.

141 blueraven  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:20:27pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?

Iranian diplomat warns that Obama’s daughter will be kidnapped and raped if America attacks Syria

why do you post shit like that? Total porn.

142 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:21:46pm

re: #139 bratwurst

Let’s…uh…consider the source publishing that.

True that.

143 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:22:11pm

re: #139 bratwurst

Let’s…uh…consider the source publishing that.

No, it really happened.

144 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:25:34pm

re: #143 NJDhockeyfan

The link leads to a foreign language website with a dodgy looking popup.

145 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:25:39pm

Right. Because Iranian officials never make statements like that.

146 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:27:03pm

re: #144 EPR-radar

The link leads to a foreign language website with a dodgy looking popup.

I think it’s Farsi. Correct me if I’m wrong.

147 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:27:05pm

There may be a germ of truth to it. online.wsj.com

148 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:27:59pm

re: #146 NJDhockeyfan

I think it Farsi. Correct me if I’m wrong.

The popup bothered me more than the language (which I don’t recognize).

150 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:31:14pm

I wonder if they thought this was legal, real pot?

Colorado officials probe three deaths possibly linked to synthetic pot

denverpost.com

151 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:35:56pm

I wish they’d stop calling it synthetic pot. It isn’t fucking pot.

152 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:37:20pm

re: #150 Justanotherhuman

I wonder if they thought this was legal, real pot?

Colorado officials probe three deaths possibly linked to synthetic pot

denverpost.com

Morons.

The illegal drugs are usually pieces of dried herb sprayed with synthetic chemicals that can mimic the effects of marijuana without leaving a THC trace in urine samples.

Just get the real shit. Geez.

153 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:37:27pm

OT I have a question regarding Kindle. I have some free books that I already have on a disc. Will Kindle recognize those as mine or will I have to pay for them so that I can have them on a kindle?

154 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:37:28pm
155 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:43:46pm

Later, lizards.

156 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:43:59pm

re: #96 Amory Blaine

Here’s a local take on it from a couple of months ago.

Chinese company to buy parent company of Patrick Cudahy

If you do not want people to buy America, do not sell it. - Akio Morita

157 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:44:13pm

re: #154 Gus

[Embedded content]

Bullshit tweet. Perhaps Democrats are capable of learning.

158 blueraven  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:46:37pm

re: #157 Decatur Deb

Bullshit tweet. Perhaps Democrats are capable of learning.

Right or wrong, I think there is no doubt that Iraq is coloring a lot of opinions.

159 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:46:45pm

re: #153 PhillyPretzel

galaxie.com

160 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:47:43pm

re: #158 blueraven

Right or wrong, I think there is no doubt that Iraq is coloring a lot of opinions.

The tweet implies that Dem reluctance is racial.

161 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:48:58pm

re: #158 blueraven

Right or wrong, I think there is no doubt that Iraq is coloring a lot of opinions.

Agreed. My view is that we weren’t nearly skeptical enough for Iraq, and we may be over-compensating for that this time around.

162 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:50:28pm

re: #161 EPR-radar

Agreed. My view is that we weren’t nearly skeptical enough for Iraq, and we may be over-compensating for that this time around.

The refuseniks were right then, and are right now.

163 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:51:35pm

re: #159 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

So I have to use mobi to download it to a kindle? I do have an mobi version of each novel. Do I have to download all of them individually or can I just do it once from a flash drive?

164 blueraven  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:52:20pm

re: #160 Decatur Deb

The tweet implies that Dem reluctance is racial.

Yep, could have kept race out of it and made the same point.

165 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:52:27pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?

Iranian diplomat warns that Obama’s daughter will be kidnapped and raped if America attacks Syria

Um. What was it Yamamoto said after Dec. 7, 1941? Oh yeah.

I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolution.

Somewhere the Admiral has a WTF? look on his face.

166 palomino  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:52:27pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

I think if he changed his mind it would have been better to say he changed his mind about the attack and give a reason. Instead it appears he changed his mind and wants to share political cover for not attacking. I’ve been against the attack but not terribly passionate about it. I have no problem with a change of mind but the indecision and political floundering looks weak. Assad is going to feel comfortable and safe in future attacks and use of chemical weapons. Iran is going to feel safe continuing its nuclear program. Do or do not, there is no try.

Wait, so you think Obama wants this to fail in Congress? That’s not really the kind of political cover presidents usually look for; if anything, it makes him look worse if his resolution gets shot down in congress. That’s not real cover.

You’re right, certainly, that he could have just made the case that circumstances are different now than 6 months or 2 years ago, and he changed his mind accordingly. Republicans would have screamed “weakness” as they always do. But, since most Americans don’t know much about Syria or Assad, much less give a shit, he wasn’t risking much in staying out.

167 Gus  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:53:07pm

Welp. Later again.

168 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:53:49pm

re: #164 blueraven

Yep, could have kept race out of it and made the same point.

Depends on what point he’s shooting for.

169 kirkspencer  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 5:56:07pm

re: #162 Decatur Deb

The refuseniks were right then, and are right now.

As I’ve said a couple of times, if the Syrian government used chemical weapons on its own people then I’m in full support of going all the way to get rid of them.

There’s an ‘if’ in there I need to unpack.

It bothers me that there are a couple of points in the evidence chain where the US government is saying, “Trust us. It’s classified or we’d show you, so just trust us.” See, in 2001 and even as late as 2003 I accepted that. Grumbled, complained, but overall trusted. After the exposure of how thorough the lies were I lost that trust. And while the people at the top may be different the next layer down, the one that put all those lies together, haven’t changed. (well, barring promotions and retirements.)

So I want independent confirmation, or I want that ‘trust us’ exposed. Because I know from personal experience exactly what the price may be, and I do not want more family and/or friends of family or even my fellow citizens to pay the price of war if war was not necessary.

170 klys  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:00:58pm

re: #163 PhillyPretzel

So I have to use e-pub to download it to a kindle? I do have an e-pub version of each novel. Do I have to download all of them individually or can I just do it once from a flash drive?

The program you want is Calibre. Free, open-source ebook library management.

To load things on a Kindle, you need books to be in the .mobi format. If you only have them in .epub, Calibre can convert them to the .mobi format for you. Then you hook your Kindle up to the computer using the USB cable and Calibre will recognize it and you can use the “move to device” button to load them onto your Kindle.

171 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:01:14pm

Nighty night.

172 palomino  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:01:16pm

re: #154 Gus

[Embedded content]

Exactly, just look at the votes and you’ll see a huge integrity gap between the parties.

Half of Dems voted Yea on Iraq. While every Republican (save nut Paul) voted in lockstep with the Bush administration.

In this case, we have a similar type of split among Dems. While Republicans line up in opposition to something they normally salivate over: military action. Amazingly, GOP hatred of Obama is even greater than their hatred of Arab Muslims.

173 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:01:20pm

re: #169 kirkspencer

I worked (far) under Colin Powell, admired him and was sure his 8-point engagement doctrine was the best compromise. Then I got see him do bullshit kabuki with a vial of sugar. That was a couple hundred thousand deaths ago. No one gets that trust again.

174 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:02:16pm

re: #170 klys

Yes I have Calibre. It is a great program to change to different formats.

175 klys  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:02:24pm

re: #170 klys

I’ll hang around here to do some tech support of walking you through it as needed, so as not to harass the Lizards upstairs.

176 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:03:17pm

re: #169 kirkspencer

I’m willing to accept at face value the idea that CW were used by the Assad regime. Even with a few holes in the story, it is much more compelling than the Iraq story was back in 2001/2002.

My sticking point is what is the mission? If we aren’t going to strike hard enough to alter the balance in the civil war, what is the point? If we are going to go in hard, what’s the post-Assad plan?

177 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:03:24pm

re: #175 klys

I’ll hang around here to do some tech support of walking you through it as needed, so as not to harass the Lizards upstairs.

Yeah hang in the basement with the cool kids. -_-

178 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:07:39pm

re: #173 Decatur Deb

I worked (far) under Colin Powell, admired him and was sure his 8-point engagement doctrine was the best compromise. Then I got see him do bullshit kabuki with a vial of sugar. That was a couple hundred thousand deaths ago. No one gets that trust again.

Nothing that has happened under the Obama administration has been remotely close to as damaging to US interests as even such relatively small parts of the Iraq clusterfuck as sending Colin Powell off to the UN to pass off neo-con lies as US intelligence product.

179 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:08:37pm

re: #170 klys

I have mobi format on the free disc from the publisher. I already converted that to a flash drive. I currently use the flash drive on my MacBook. I would like to have all of the books backed up as electronic copies so I do not have to store all of my hardbacks and paperbacks.

180 klys  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:14:22pm

re: #179 PhillyPretzel

I have mobi format on the free disc from the publisher. I already converted that to a flash drive. I currently use the flash drive on my MacBook. I would like to have all of the books backed up as electronic copies so I do not have to store all of my hardbacks and paperbacks.

You can just stick the .mobi files in a folder on your computer and that would serve as a back-up for the books; that’s also the format you want on the Kindle.

If you install Calibre, it’ll organize stuff for you; I highly recommend it to keep track of your books, and it handles format conversion from things like .lit (Microsoft Reader) to .epub (Nook) to .mobi (Kindle/mobipocket) just fine. The .pdf conversion is a little sketchy but that’s because they are PDFs.

I would recommend Calibre to load books onto the Kindle. That’s what I use to keep my 1100+ book library straight.

181 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:14:35pm

re: #175 klys

Am I on the correct track? Do I have to download each book individually or as a group? And which Kindle did you get?

182 klys  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:19:24pm

re: #181 PhillyPretzel

From the disc?

If you’ve installed Calibre, you can go to the arrow next to the “add books” button and select to add books from directories including sub-directories. Depending on the file structure of the disc, you want to tell it whether there are multiple books in each folder or whether each folder is a separate book with multiple formats (one copy in .mobi, one copy in .epub). Select the top level folder, then, and it should add all of your books to the calibre library - and it’ll also copy them into the calibre library so that you have another backup.

Once you’ve gotten them all into the program, hook your Kindle up to the computer using the USB and wait for Calibre to register it. Once it does, you can select all the books in the library and hit “send to device”. It’ll do it all at once for you.

183 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:22:42pm

re: #182 klys

I have mobi format for each novel/short story on a flash drive (originally from free disc from publisher). How much does Calibre cost?

184 klys  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:24:15pm

re: #183 PhillyPretzel

I have mobi format for each novel/short story on a flash drive (originally from free disc from publisher). How much does Calibre cost?

Totally free. Available for download here. I highly recommend it and have done installations/set-up for my mother and at least one friend. (It’s pretty simple but there are days my mom finds Word to be a challenge.)

185 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:26:30pm

re: #184 klys

Thank you for your help. I have bookmarked the Calibre page.

186 CuriousLurker  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:28:09pm

re: #126 wrenchwench

Wow, easy mistake to make. Same color hijab, little tiny photos, one different vowel…

A Little Hind History

You wouldn’t have wanted to cross their namesake, Hind bint Utbah. She was the wife of a powerful Meccan anmed Abu Sufyan who (previous to becoming Muslim) opposed Islam and fought against the Muslims.

Hind’s father, brother, and uncle were all killed in the Battle of Badr, in which the Muslims had defeated the Meccans. She vowed revenge and offered a reward for anyone who could bring her the heart of Hamza, who was believed to have been the man who killed her father & brother.

About a year later, during the Battle of Uhud at which Hind was present in a support capacity, her Ethiopian slave brought down Hamza with a javelin attack. It’s alleged that when Hamza fell she (or someone) cut open his corpse and ate his liver (or at least took a bite out of it). O_o

Moral of the story: You don’t wanna piss of a woman named Hind, heh.1

Addendum: Hind and Abu Sufyan both eventually became Muslim. Years later, Hind’s son, Muawiya, had a falling out with Ali which ultimately resulted in the Sunni-Shia schism when Muawiyah’s son, Yazid, was held responsible for the death/martyrdom of Hussein (Ali’s son and the grandson of Prophet Muhammad through his daughter Fatimah) at the hands of his (Yazid’s) army during the Battle of Karbala (in Iraq). The Shia believe that it was Muawiya who was also responsible for the death of Hussein’s brother Hasan, who was poisoned. 2

Anyway, Muawiyah was eventually crowned Caliph (in 661) and established the Umayyad Caliphate, whose capital was… wait for it…Damascus!

Does anyone need a map to go with that? // As you can see, tensions & passions in places like Iraq & Syria go back nearly 1400 years, so we’re kinda in way over our heads no matter what we choose to do.

————-

1. I’m not 100% sure, but IIRC it might have been that incident that preceded the injunction against the mutilation of corpses.

2. It is alleged by the Shia that Muawiyah wanted the caliphate for his son Yazid and, because Hasan was seen as a competitor, incited one of Hasan’s wives to murder him by promising her that Yazid would marry her if she helped them. See Wikipedia for more info.

Update 6:30 ET/9:30 ET: Had to fix some typos & add a missing link. Please refresh your browser window to see them.

187 klys  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:28:13pm

re: #185 PhillyPretzel

No problem. If you end up with questions, feel free to ping me at sylkai at that Google e-mail provider.

I love my Kindle in addition to my physical books, and think it’s awesome to support both. It sure makes packing for trips a lot easier, especially when you read fast!

188 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:31:34pm

re: #178 EPR-radar

Nothing that has happened under the Obama administration has been remotely close to as damaging to US interests as even such relatively small parts of the Iraq clusterfuck as sending Colin Powell off to the UN to pass off neo-con lies as US intelligence product.

It still boggles the mind when you hear that their “source,” the guy who supposedly had all the inside info, is an Iraqi ex-pat who admitted he was stringing them along to get the war he wanted to happen.

189 wheat-dogghazi  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:35:00pm

re: #110 Bubblehead II

Shuanghui will jack up the prices here in China, especially if they keep the Smithfield label on the packaging, because it will be “imported.” So, the common folks will still eat the crap they make here.

Food safety aside, Chinese hot dogs and hot dog-like products have got as much flavor as plain tofu. Even the halal ones (“Muslim food” on the package) I find occasionally have like zero flavor.

190 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:40:38pm

re: #188 Targetpractice

It still boggles the mind when you hear that their “source,” the guy who supposedly had all the inside info, is an Iraqi ex-pat who admitted he was stringing them along to get the war he wanted to happen.

The neo-cons wanted the Iraq war as well, so actual intelligence results were irrelevant. They really couldn’t have cared less about the truth.

The funny thing for me is that I was hawkish in the run-up to Iraq. My thinking at the time was that post 9/11, the kind of ambiguity Saddam Hussein cultivated about his WMD capabilities and intentions was sufficient grounds for (competent) action.

Watching the Bushies try one fairy tale after another to sell the war domestically and internationally was a revelation, and then they screwed up in every way possible after the conventional military operations were over.

What I see in Syria so far is that the Obama administration seems to be going where the evidence leads them.

191 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:45:49pm

re: #190 EPR-radar

The neo-cons wanted the Iraq war as well, so actual intelligence results were irrelevant. They really couldn’t have cared less about the truth.

The funny thing for me is that I was hawkish in the run-up to Iraq. My thinking at the time was that post 9/11, the kind of ambiguity Saddam Hussein cultivated about his WMD capabilities and intentions was sufficient grounds for (competent) action.

Watching the Bushies try one fairy tale after another to sell the war domestically and internationally was a revelation, and then they screwed up in every way possible after the conventional military operations were over.

What I see in Syria so far is that the Obama administration seems to be going where the evidence leads them.

True enough, “Curveball” just fed them what they wanted to hear at that point. It was symbiotic relationship, he was giving them what they wanted to hear to justify a war, and they were starting a war that he wanted simply to see Saddam toppled.

192 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 6:46:53pm

Another idea is to zip the books up and email them to yourself. For backup.

193 sagehen  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 8:13:23pm

re: #176 EPR-radar

My sticking point is what is the mission? If we aren’t going to strike hard enough to alter the balance in the civil war, what is the point? If we are going to go in hard, what’s the post-Assad plan?

I’m not sure I even care about the balance in the civil war; I care that Syria’s chemical stockpile be locked down and destroyed.

I don’t want Assad to use them again on his own people, or his neighbors, or to give them to Hezbollah to use, or for the Assad regime to fall and whoever’s in charge next to use them or give them to someone else to use.

I’d like this goal to be reached with as few Syrian deaths as possible, but keeping those deaths at zero is not my highest priority.

194 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 6, 2013 8:17:23pm

re: #193 sagehen

I’m not sure I even care about the balance in the civil war; I care that Syria’s chemical stockpile be locked down and destroyed.

I don’t want Assad to use them again on his own people, or his neighbors, or to give them to Hezbollah to use, or for the Assad regime to fall and whoever’s in charge next to use them or give them to someone else to use.

I’d like this goal to be reached with as few Syrian deaths as possible, but keeping those deaths at zero is not my highest priority.

This is a perfectly sensible mission goal. Unfortunately, it would seem to require, at minimum, full military conquest of the Assad regime, combined with a sufficiently long military occupation to find and destroy the chemical weapons.

195 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 7, 2013 5:33:08am

re: #186 CuriousLurker

Thanks!

Now following links and reading stories.

196 Origuy  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 9:54:23pm

re: #129 NJDhockeyfan

Alireza Forghani,

Farsi for Louie Gohmert.


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