New Breaking Bombshell NSA News: The NSA Spies on Terrorists’ Cell Phones!

This is getting seriously stupid
World • Views: 19,990

Here we go again with another deliberately misleading article on the NSA, this time at Der Spiegel, where Glenn Greenwald’s collaborator Laura Poitras is happily leaking away: Privacy Scandal: NSA Can Spy on Smart Phone Data.

OMG! My selfies aren’t safe! [run around screaming…]

Oh, uh, wait. I just read to the end of the article — and you know what? The government doesn’t really seem to be interested in what’s on my iPhone after all.

Once again, the ability to do something is being conflated with the act of doing it.

The material viewed by SPIEGEL suggests that the spying on smart phones has not been a mass phenomenon. It has been targeted, in some cases in an individually tailored manner and without the knowledge of the smart phone companies.

In other words, as with every other NSA story, they’re burying the exculpatory information as deep in the article as they can, far from the overheated, misleading headline. The NSA is only spying on cell phones used by terrorists, but the Axis of Greenwald sure wants you to believe otherwise.

Do I need to point out that this in no way qualifies as any kind of “whistleblowing?” The only purpose for revealing this information is to harm the United States.

Jump to bottom

251 comments
1 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:32:04am

New breaking bombshell EXCLUSIVE!

2 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:34:15am

Excellent points, all.

Bruce Schneier is also all over this:

schneier.com

3 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:35:07am

I keep my cell phone in a 1’x3’x4’ Farady cage at all times now.

4 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:35:09am

This entire thing is getting sooooo tiresome, but I suppose from their lairs in Berlin and Rio, Poitras and Greenwald can, and will, say anything.

5 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:36:07am

re: #3 b.d.

I keep my cell phone in a 1’x3’x4’ Farady cage at all times now.

Yes protect your Candy Crush score!!
//

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:36:27am

Some people really like being lied to.

7 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:40:26am

Yeah, speaking of lies, here’s Schneier:

The NSA has repeatedly lied about the extent of its spying program. James R. Clapper, the director of national intelligence, has lied about it to Congress. Top-secret documents provided by Edward Snowden, and reported on by the Guardian and other newspapers, repeatedly show that the NSA’s surveillance systems are monitoring the communications of American citizens. The DEA has used this information to apprehend drug smugglers, then lied about it in court. The IRS has used this information to find tax cheats, then lied about it. It’s even been used to arrest a copyright violator. It seems that every time there is an allegation against the NSA, no matter how outlandish, it turns out to be true.

There’s links to various of those lies at the original: schneier.com

8 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:41:36am

Schneier has a vested interest in selling cybernoia, it’s how he makes his living.

9 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:41:36am

re: #7 Laertes

Yeah, speaking of lies, here’s Schneier:

There’s links to various of those lies at the original: schneier.com

Don’t forget that Schneier joined Greenwald’s group, EFF, in June of this year.

10 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:41:45am
11 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:42:56am

Holy shit. You guys think the EFF are bad guys now? How crazy have you all gone?

12 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:43:57am

Also don’t forget that this is all recycled Schneier shit from circa 2006- 2008, down to almost the last detail even though much has been debunked. How is this supposed to be news again?

13 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:44:01am

Remember when Phil Donahue was fired?

14 122 Year Old Obama  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:45:10am

Not jumping into hysteria mode over this bullshit is crazy now.

The world doesn’t work like that.

15 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:45:48am

re: #11 Laertes

Holy shit. You guys think the EFF are bad guys now? How crazy have you all gone?

EFF is like Amnesty—singlemindedly pursuing a noble purpose regardless of where it might take them. That’s not always useful.

16 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:46:25am

I like EFF most of the time, I don’t care for Schneier.

17 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:48:04am

re: #9 Justanotherhuman

The EFF is *not* Greenwald’s group.

18 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:48:12am
Also don’t forget that this is all recycled Schneier shit from circa 2006- 2008, down to almost the last detail even though much has been debunked. How is this supposed to be news again?

Schneier links to three outside articles to back up his claims in the paragraph I quoted above. All three are from 2013.

19 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:48:26am

1st partial results give Putin ally Sobyanin 57.5% in Moscow mayoral vote; Navalny at 21.6% - RIA citing electoral commission, via @Reuters

27 mins ago from reuters.com by editor

20 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:49:07am

For example, this article here:

eff.org

about DNI Clapper lying to congress, is dated June 11, 2013.

21 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:50:10am

re: #18 Laertes

Schneier links to three outside articles to back up his claims in the paragraph I quoted above. All three are from 2013.

And the new articles just repeat speculation and unsubstantiated bs, just like the old Schneier bs did.

22 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:50:28am

re: #7 Laertes

Yeah, speaking of lies, here’s Schneier:

There’s links to various of those lies at the original: schneier.com

Links to Sirota, Greenwald and himself? LOL

23 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:50:28am

re: #19 Justanotherhuman

1st partial results give Putin ally Sobyanin 57.5% in Moscow mayoral vote; Navalny at 21.6% - RIA citing electoral commission, via @Reuters

27 mins ago from reuters.com by editor

What’s Sobyanin’s position on weiners and kittens?

24 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:51:18am

re: #15 Decatur Deb

Nuance is a good thing.

25 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:51:34am

re: #23 Decatur Deb

What’s Sobyanin’s position on weiners and kittens?

he asked him not to send him anymore Tweets

26 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:51:54am

re: #20 Laertes

By Trevor Timm of Wikileaks. Now there’s a completely unbiased source for you.

Ron Wyden asked Clapper a question that Wyden KNEW in advance could not be answered EITHER WAY without violating Clapper’s oath of secrecy. It was a cheap set-up, and the libertarians who keep screaming about it are being played for fools.

27 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:52:19am

This article: reuters.com about NSA feeding information that they collect under their justifiably broad foreign-intelligence mandate to domestic law enforcement agencies who operate under (again, justifiably) far more limited snooping authority, is dated August 5, 2013.

28 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:53:40am

Well, look what the nuts are doing in Syria.

The Nusra Front and other have taken this town as of September 2013.[8] There are reports that Islamist gunmen have been forcing the conversions of Christians on pain of death. These report also indicate that these Islamist elements have attacked Christian property.[9]

Do not intervene. We will be helping these nuts take control.

29 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:54:36am
Ron Wyden asked Clapper a question that Wyden KNEW in advance could not be answered EITHER WAY without violating Clapper’s oath of secrecy.

If you can’t answer a question without lying to congress, then don’t answer the question. You don’t get to lie just because you really, really want to.

30 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:55:37am

Lolwhut.
/Charles

31 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:56:19am

re: #16 Randall Gross

I like EFF most of the time, I don’t care for Schneier.

Orgs like EFF, while they may start with noble intentions, they are easily manipulated and taken over by people like Greenwald and Schneier who use the orgs for personal gain.

32 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:56:21am

re: #29 Laertes

Nice to know you agree it was a cheap set-up, then. But keep screaming about it anyway, that’s helpful.

33 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:57:44am

re: #17 Randall Gross

The EFF is *not* Greenwald’s group.

Not his group, but he links to them and uses them as a reference all the time.

34 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:58:02am

Oliver North and John Poindexter were tried and convicted when they lied to Congress. I’m sure they had bullshit excuses too. I’d like to know why James Clapper is any different.

35 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:59:09am

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

Not his group, but he links to them and uses them as a reference all the time.

“uses them” is the operative phrase here.

36 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:59:43am

Omigosh,, they keep a BILLLYUN! phone call metadata records in the DICE db (legally obtained, and purged after a year) lets’ all panic! ( ~ 12.4 billion calls are made every single day worldwide, or ~15 trillion per year.)

37 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 11:59:59am

re: #32 Charles Johnson

Nice to know you agree it was a cheap set-up, then. But keep screaming about it anyway, that’s helpful.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the Johnson Rule: Senators are not permitted to ask difficult questions.

38 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:00:16pm

re: #35 darthstar

“uses them” is the operative phrase here.

They probably don’t mind.

39 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:00:29pm

re: #37 Laertes

And now, the march of the straw men. It’s like clockwork.

40 122 Year Old Obama  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:00:52pm

Image: thestupiditburns.jpg

41 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:01:15pm

re: #37 Laertes

You should not ask questions that compromise security.

We don’t live in utopia. Secrets keep us safe.

42 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:01:28pm
43 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:01:30pm

re: #34 Laertes

Clapper corrected his lie promptly after the evolving pile of now disclosed secrets allowed him to. It’s just not going to happen, so give it up.

44 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:02:30pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

The first flaming straw pile was that we all hate EFF.

45 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:02:46pm

re: #41 ProTARDISLiberal

If the witness can’t answer the question without jeopardizing national security, then the witness should decline to answer in open session.

You do not get to lie to congress just because you really, really want to.

46 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:03:46pm

I’m having a hard time telling the difference between wingnuts and dingbat dudebros nowadays. The intellectual dishonesty leading to mindnumbingly stupid dumbfuckery is very similar.

47 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:04:05pm

re: #37 Laertes

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the Johnson Rule: Senators are not permitted to ask difficult questions.

How’d you like the Wikileaks party sucking up and supporting the fascist Australia First Party in the Aussie election???

48 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:04:11pm

North and Poindexter surely thought that they were protecting national security by lying to Congress.

They were wrong, so was Clapper, and so are you.

49 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:04:16pm

re: #7 Laertes

Yeah, speaking of lies, here’s Schneier:

There’s links to various of those lies at the original: schneier.com

Schneier is so concerned with accuracy, one of his references draws the connection between the NSA and NZ spying through the use of a single word “selectors”.

That is some pretty poor analysis.

50 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:04:37pm

re: #45 Laertes

Guess what? Nobody’s going to prosecute Clapper. Everybody sane understands what happened in that hearing, and it’s pointless to keep yelling about it. All you achieve by doing so is to make yourself look like an easily manipulated tool.

51 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:06:15pm

re: #49 b_sharp

Schneier is so concerned with accuracy, one of his references draws the connection between the NSA and NZ spying through the use of a single word “selectors”.

That is some pretty poor analysis.

You used said word. NZ spy!
I quoted it.
I’m a spy!
Sweet.

52 122 Year Old Obama  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:07:03pm

We’re all spies now.

53 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:07:30pm

re: #44 Randall Gross

The first flaming straw pile was that we all hate EFF.

I don’t know if I could trust any group co-founded by this guy, a libertarian “renaissance man”:

John Perry Barlow
Co-Founder, Board Member; entrepreneur; writer; lyricist

54 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:07:39pm

Where’s my snazzy laser watch and Aston Martin with quad .50 calibers and missiles?

55 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:09:03pm

re: #54 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Where’s my snazzy laser watch and Aston Martin with quad .50 calibers and missiles?

You get a flashlight, a fur coat, and get dumped into Siberia as a decoy for the real mission.
;P

56 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:09:07pm

re: #52 122 Year Old Obama

We’re all spies now.

And journalist whistleblowers. And stuffs.

57 BeenHereAwhile  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:09:12pm

re: #16 Randall Gross

I like EFF most of the time, I don’t care for Schneier.

I had to unfollow John Perry Barlow, he got a little too derpy.

58 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:09:27pm

re: #55 Feline Fearless Leader

You get a flashlight, a fur coat, and get dumped into Siberia as a decoy for the real mission.
;P

Lame.

59 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:09:38pm

re: #53 Justanotherhuman

A renaissance man should be knowledgeable on all topics. Science, Math, Literature, Language, History, Politics, among others.

This guy has got 2, maybe 3. No Renaissance Man.

60 abolitionist  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:10:31pm

Maybe relevent: ORYX

ORYX is an encryption algorithm used in cellular communications in order to protect data traffic. It is a stream cipher designed to have a very strong 96-bit key strength with a way to reduce the strength to 32-bits for export. However, due to mistakes the actual strength is a trivial 16-bits and any signal can be cracked after the first 25-27 bytes.[1]

Footnote1: [D. Wagner, L. Simpson, E. Dawson, J. Kelsey, W. Millan, and B. Schneier schneier.com

Also: Cryptographic Algorithms

ORYX is the algorithm used to encrypt data sent over digital cellular phones. It is a stream cipher based on three 32-bit Galois LFSRs. It is distinct from CMEA, which is a block cipher used to encrypt the cellular data control channel. The cryptographic tag-team from Counterpane Systems (David Wagner, John Kelsey, and Bruce Schneier) have developed an attack on ORYX that requires approximately 24 bytes of known plaintext and about 216 initial guesses.

61 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:10:57pm

re: #44 Randall Gross

The first flaming straw pile was that we all hate EFF.

I know. It’s a typical bullshit argument tactic I see all the time from the pro-Greenwald crowd.

I actually think the EFF has done some good work. And some not-so-good work.

62 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:12:35pm

By the way, the EFF is not Greenwald’s group - you were probably thinking of the Freedom of Press Foundation, which is more explicitly connected to Wikileaks.

63 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:12:59pm

The Fallacy Hotel, where you can check out but never leave.

64 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:13:15pm
65 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:13:30pm

re: #20 Laertes

For example, this article here:

eff.org

about DNI Clapper lying to congress, is dated June 11, 2013.

If I shovel gravel into a pile am I collecting rocks?
If I pick out certain rocks from that pile and examine and then save them in a box, then I am collecting them.

When the boy scouts come collecting bottles they aren’t asking for any and all bottle I might have, they are looking for specific ones.

Specificity has always been part of collecting, your boys are just drawing that definition to be types of communication, which is a useless definition to any but GG.

66 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:15:39pm

re: #27 Laertes

This article: reuters.com about NSA feeding information that they collect under their justifiably broad foreign-intelligence mandate to domestic law enforcement agencies who operate under (again, justifiably) far more limited snooping authority, is dated August 5, 2013.

That’s about the DEA.

67 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:15:39pm

OFFS, is Hamlet’s girlfriend’s brother another Glennsock?

68 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:16:29pm

I was thinking I hadn’t seen a dudebro in these parts for awhile. Guess the stench of failure was getting to the point he had to come up for air.

69 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:16:46pm

re: #59 ProTARDISLiberal

A renaissance man should be knowledgeable on all topics. Science, Math, Literature, Language, History, Politics, among others.

This guy has got 2, maybe 3. No Renaissance Man.

Haha, yeah, that term was loosely thrown around a lot in the 80s.

If you preferred white wine or microbrews, you were a “renaissance man”. This was before your time, of course. Reagan was sometimes called a “renaissance man” by admirers. : }

70 abolitionist  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:17:24pm

re: #33 Justanotherhuman

Not his group, but he links to them and uses them as a reference all the time.

Not quite true. (edit; I may have misunderstood the his reference.)
July 1, 2013 I’ve Joined the EFF Board
I’m now on the board of directors of the EFF.

71 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:17:52pm

re: #69 Justanotherhuman

Haha, yeah, that term was loosely thrown around a lot in the 80s.

If you preferred white wine or microbrews, you were a “renaissance man”. This was before your time, of course. Reagan was sometimes called a “renaissance man” by admirers. : }

Reagan was called a lot of things in office, not all of them fit to recite in polite company.

72 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:18:44pm

re: #27 Laertes

This article: reuters.com about NSA feeding information that they collect under their justifiably broad foreign-intelligence mandate to domestic law enforcement agencies who operate under (again, justifiably) far more limited snooping authority, is dated August 5, 2013.

Just read this comment - you clearly did not understand what you were reading. The NSA is NOT feeding information to domestic law enforcement. That article is about a DEA data collection program targeted at Latin American narco-trafficking gangs.

73 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:20:41pm

re: #34 Laertes

Oliver North and John Poindexter were tried and convicted when they lied to Congress. I’m sure they had bullshit excuses too. I’d like to know why James Clapper is any different.

Clapper’s wasn’t a lie, it was an interpretation of the word ‘collect’. He was struggling with two influences, an oath he took and the desire not to lie.

He used ‘weasel’ words but not a lie.

74 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:21:42pm

re: #70 abolitionist

Not quite true.
July 1, 2013 I’ve Joined the EFF Board
I’m now on the board of directors of the EFF.

EFF’s news release said Schneier joined BofD on June 27, 2013:

June 27, 2013
Renowned Security Expert Bruce Schneier Joins EFF Board of Directors

eff.org

75 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:21:47pm

Greenwald specializes in news for stupid people.

76 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:23:20pm
77 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:23:39pm

re: #54 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Where’s my snazzy laser watch and Aston Martin with quad .50 calibers and missiles?

Being held up at the airport by the TSA.

78 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:25:05pm

re: #69 Justanotherhuman

Haha, yeah, that term was loosely thrown around a lot in the 80s.

If you preferred white wine or microbrews, you were a “renaissance man”. This was before your time, of course. Reagan was sometimes called a “renaissance man” by admirers. : }

He was a renaissance man, more Sforza than Medici.

80 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:26:54pm

re: #69 Justanotherhuman

Haha, yeah, that term was loosely thrown around a lot in the 80s.

If you preferred white wine or microbrews, you were a “renaissance man”. This was before your time, of course. Reagan was sometimes called a “renaissance man” by admirers. : }

More sauce than sance.

81 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:28:26pm

gee…what could possibly go wrong?

Iowa grants permits for blind residents to carry guns in public

82 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:28:45pm

re: #77 b_sharp

Being held up at the airport by the TSA.

Catalytic converter problem again?

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:29:20pm

re: #81 Backwoods_Sleuth

gee…what could possibly go wrong?

Iowa grants permits for blind residents to carry guns in public

Do their guide animals have the laser sights mounted on their heads?

84 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:30:34pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Catalytic converter problem again?

Well, you know Q’s Aston Martins.

85 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:31:31pm

re: #83 Feline Fearless Leader

Do their guide animals have the laser sights mounted on their heads?

maybe if their guide animals are sharks…

86 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:34:03pm
87 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:35:45pm

Hmm. Kitchen smells like dill right now. Making sauce for the salmon burgers to be served at halftime of the 4pm game.

88 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:35:58pm

re: #76 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Is Greenwald going to destroy Reuters before of after he destroys the UK?

89 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:36:06pm

re: #81 Backwoods_Sleuth

gee…what could possibly go wrong?

Iowa grants permits for blind residents to carry guns in public

Uh…
Whut?

90 elizajane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:36:31pm

re: #81 Backwoods_Sleuth

gee…what could possibly go wrong?

Iowa grants permits for blind residents to carry guns in public

If you go to the link and read the comments, they are heavily in favor of this move and indeed think it does not go far enough. The top comments are along the lines of “why does anybody need a permit to carry a gun? Do the words “shall not be infringed” mean nothing? Blind people should be allowed to defend themselves like the rest of us!”

Remind me to add Iowa to the long list of places where my children are not permitted to attend college or settle.

91 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:37:28pm

re: #90 elizajane

If you go to the link and read the comments, they are heavily in favor of this move and indeed think it does not go far enough. The top comments are along the lines of “why does anybody need a permit to carry a gun? Do the words “shall not be infringed” mean nothing? Blind people should be allowed to defend themselves like the rest of us!”

Remind me to strike Iowa off the long list of places where my children are not permitted to attend college or settle.

You want them there?

92 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:38:06pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

By the way, the EFF is not Greenwald’s group - you were probably thinking of the Freedom of Press Foundation, which is more explicitly connected to Wikileaks.

Yes. My bad memory…but I’m not too fond of some of those on EFF, either.

93 elizajane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:38:22pm

re: #91 b_sharp

You want them there?

No, thanks ; -). Fixed it.

94 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:42:41pm

re: #93 elizajane

No, thanks ; -). Fixed it.

Double negatives will not get you no times.

95 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:43:39pm

EFF also has some great people on their board, like Jonathan Zittrain.

eff.org

youtube.com

oh, and for the record I’ve posted videos here with Schneier speculating about what could be - that’s what he’s good for.

96 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:44:35pm

re: #78 Decatur Deb

He was a renaissance man, more Sforza than Medici.

From Wiki on Caterina Sforza:

After more than a half dozen failed attempts, Girolamo was killed on 14 April 1488 by a conspiracy led by the Orsis, a noble family of Forlì. The lord’s palace was sacked, while Caterina and her children were made prisoners.

The fortress of Ravaldino refused to surrender to the Orsis. Caterina offered to attempt to persuade the castellan, Tommaso Feo, to submit. The Orsis believed Caterina because she left her children as hostages, but once inside she let loose a barrage vulgar threats and promises of vengeance against her former captors. According to a legend, when they threatened to kill her children, she exposed her genitals from the fortress walls and said: “Ho con me lo stampo per farne degli altri!.” (“I have the mold to make more!”) With the assistance of Ludovico il Moro, she defeated her enemies and regained possession of her dominions; she wreaked vengeance on those who had opposed her and re-established her power over Forlì.

She was the quiet daughter of the family.

97 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:45:11pm

re: #48 Laertes

Big Biz - which has far more info on you and will be far more damaging with that info than the NSA ever could imagine being - must really love useful idiots like you.

98 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:48:33pm

Guess he had to go back and reload on talking points…

99 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:48:43pm
100 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:50:29pm

re: #99 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Alien.

101 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:51:05pm

re: #100 b_sharp

Alien.

They were here before we were.

102 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:51:49pm
103 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:52:17pm

Quite frankly, this is one of the most profoundly disturbing comedy sketches I’ve ever seen:

Youtube Video

104 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:52:38pm

re: #102 Vicious Babushka

Drudgewald.

105 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:52:43pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

From Wiki on Caterina Sforza:

After more than a half dozen failed attempts, Girolamo was killed on 14 April 1488 by a conspiracy led by the Orsis, a noble family of Forlì. The lord’s palace was sacked, while Caterina and her children were made prisoners.

The fortress of Ravaldino refused to surrender to the Orsis. Caterina offered to attempt to persuade the castellan, Tommaso Feo, to submit. The Orsis believed Caterina because she left her children as hostages, but once inside she let loose a barrage vulgar threats and promises of vengeance against her former captors. According to a legend, when they threatened to kill her children, she exposed her genitals from the fortress walls and said: “Ho con me lo stampo per farne degli altri!.” (“I have the mold to make more!”) With the assistance of Ludovico il Moro, she defeated her enemies and regained possession of her dominions; she wreaked vengeance on those who had opposed her and re-established her power over Forlì.

She was the quiet daughter of the family.

Haha, reminds me of the hateful parents I’ve heard say, “I brought you into the world and I can take you out.” Brrrrr!

106 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:53:20pm

re: #101 Feline Fearless Leader

They were here before we were.

Shh.

107 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:56:26pm

re: #101 Feline Fearless Leader

They were here before we were.

They’re planning their uprising as we speak. Soon, they will retake the surface world. And I for one welcome our future chelicerata overlords!

//

108 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:57:14pm

re: #107 Targetpractice

They’re planning their uprising as we speak. Soon, they will retake the surface world. And I for one welcome our future chelicerata overlords!

//

I’ve heard they taste yummy.

109 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:57:57pm

re: #108 b_sharp

I’ve heard they taste yummy.

Couldn’t say, I don’t eat seafood.

110 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:59:03pm
111 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:01:15pm

Hell, Greenwald wakes up thinking someone is going to piss in his Cheerios every morning.

What a shitty outlook on life.

112 Pygmalion  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:02:18pm

What a bunch of losers! Its only reasonable that if you say something, it isn’t a secret any more. Gee whiz, when will these guys grow up!

113 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:02:44pm

re: #111 Justanotherhuman

Hell, Greenwald wakes up thinking someone is going to piss in his Cheerios every morning.

What a shitty outlook on life.

I’ve never really had much patience for drama queens like Greenwald.

114 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:02:46pm
115 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:03:01pm

Conversation I had yesterday with some Republican relatives:

Them: argle bargle NSA spying blah blah blah

Me: Let me get this straight — 40+ years of Cold War paranoia, 12 years since 9/11 and the Patriot Act, and now you’re worried about the NSA spying on people?

Them: 40 years ago we didn’t have the internet.

Me: We’ve had the internet since the 90’s. The NSA have been around since the 50’s. You’re just now worried about them spying? .

Them: But…

Me: BTW, Google and Facebook are a bigger threat to your privacy and know more about you than the NSA does since you willingly give them your private info.

Them: ……..

116 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:03:43pm


Image: AP596649528735.jpg
Image: ray-wylie-hubbard-and-dog1-300x225.jpg

117 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:04:37pm


@zumbinfl Por que meu objectivo e pra maximizar o impato do documentos.

Why my goal and (sic) to maximize the impact of the documents.

118 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:05:52pm

The job of the NSA is to spy on behalf of the US on other nations. It’s to intercept communications that might prove useful to policy makers and the national security establishment. That means intercepting emails and phone conversations of those overseas.

The NSA has no obligation to not spy on someone living in Germany or Pakistan or France or Afghanistan. They can and do sweep in intel from those places. In some instances, they will share what they find with the governments of those nations. In others, they will use it for their own purposes.

But they’re not spying on everyone or everything. That’s a waste of time and resources.

And none of this is whistleblowing or actually news.

The NSA mission pretty much sets forth what they’re about - from when it was established in 1949 as the AFSA and reorganized into the NSA in 1952.

They spy. It’s what they do. And that’s not news or newsworthy.

What is newsworthy is how Greenwald and Poitras are spinning the NSA activities that are empowered under US law into something that they’re not.

119 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:09:29pm

Oh, and if you notice the NSA mission statement, it too specifically points to Executive Order 12333, originally enacted by the President in 1981 and as updated to 2008.

120 abolitionist  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:10:54pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Just read this comment - you clearly did not understand what you were reading. The NSA is NOT feeding information to domestic law enforcement. That article is about a DEA data collection program targeted at Latin American narco-trafficking gangs.

The NSA obviously isn’t sharing all their data with law enforcement, but the software tools and distributed database technologies and access methods that were developed to find OBL and other international terrorists, etc —those are being broadly marketed.

Youtube Video
Youtube Video

I cannot understand why you seem confident that nothing from NSA’s massive databases is being shared domestically for broader purposes beyond their lawful mandates, since it has come to light that such two-way data sharing is taking place routinely with various foreign agencies.

121 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:11:23pm
122 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:12:19pm

re: #120 abolitionist

I cannot understand why you seem confident that nothing from NSA’s massive databases is being shared domestically for broader purposes beyond their lawful mandates, since it has come to light that such two-way data sharing is taking place routinely with various foreign agencies.

I cannot understand where you got the idea I was “confident that nothing from NSA’s massive databases is being shared domestically,” because I certainly didn’t say that.

But that article does not contain any evidence that this is so.

123 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:12:19pm

Awww, GG haz a rage.

124 abolitionist  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:14:08pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

The NSA is NOT feeding information to domestic law enforcement. That’s a pretty broad statement by you.

125 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:14:40pm

zumbinfl ‏@zumbinfl 1m

@ggreenwald esse é o problema, o poder da Globo é sempre re-alimentado. Ela será cada vez mais poderosa. Os políticos tem medo dela.

this is the problem, the power of the Globe is always re-fed. It will become increasingly powerful. Politicians are afraid of it.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 22s

@zumbinfl Por causa isso to usando eles. O reportagem ate agora foi otima e livre. Sonia Bridi e uma jornalista serio e boa.

Because it to (sic) using them. The story so far was exellent (sic) and free. Sonia Bridi journalist and (sic) a serious and good.

zumbinfl ‏@zumbinfl 9s

@ggreenwald só que a Globo é uma concessão pública que deveria cumprir a Constituição e ela mesmo descumpre a Constituição reiteradamente.

only that the globe is a public concession should comply with the Constitution and she even repeatedly violates the Constitution.

126 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:16:18pm

The NSA business is selling so well because we, as a chronically narcissistic people, like to believe we’re so important that the government would spend vast resources on a constant basis just to monitor what it is we’re doing and thinking. I know for a fact that I’m just not that interesting and don’t go through my day-to-day routine thinking that the NSA is interested in the few cellphone calls I make in a week, the one or two emails I send in the same week, or what websites I’m surfing. I very much doubt that my surfing past a porn site is of vital interest to the government.

127 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:16:55pm
128 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:18:17pm

re: #127 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And that he’s using El Globo:

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 22s

@zumbinfl Por causa isso to usando eles. O reportagem ate agora foi otima e livre. Sonia Bridi e uma jornalista serio e boa.

Because it to (sic) using them. The story so far was exellent (sic) and free. Sonia Bridi journalist and (sic) a serious and good.

129 Pygmalion  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:19:31pm

re: #127 Charles Johnson

And that just says it all. Greenwald is just a journalist trying to sell a story. There’s nothing noble about that.

130 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:20:32pm

And Greenwald is pissed as hell that Reuters called him an “activist and blogger”, not a “journalist”.

131 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:21:05pm

re: #130 Justanotherhuman

And Greenwald is pissed as hell that Reuters called him an “activist and blogger”, not a “journalist”.

The truth hurts.

132 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:22:53pm

re: #130 Justanotherhuman

And Greenwald is pissed as hell that Reuters called him an “activist and blogger”, not a “journalist”.

Ah, so that’s what pissed him off.

133 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:23:41pm

re: #124 abolitionist

The NSA is NOT feeding information to domestic law enforcement. That’s a pretty broad statement by you.

Feeding them implies they are just routinely handing over anything they come across to Law Enforcement. That is not happening.

134 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:25:13pm

re: #130 Justanotherhuman

And Greenwald is pissed as hell that Reuters called him an “activist and blogger”, not a “journalist”.

I love it!

135 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:25:39pm
136 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:27:42pm
137 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:27:50pm

Promoting himself on El Globo program again.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 15m

Brasileiros: assistam o Fantastico daqui a pouco, noticias enorme de novo sobre NSA & espionagem industrial g1.globo.com …

Brazilians: watch Fantastico shortly, huge news again about NSA & industrial espionage …

So, the story will be that the Americans are spying on all Brazilian industries, to hear GG talk about it.

138 abolitionist  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:28:21pm

re: #133 Kragar

Feeding them implies they are just routinely handing over anything they come across to Law Enforcement. That is not happening.

Making info available in databases that NSA created and/or contributed to could also be considered feeding info to law enforcement.

139 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:28:47pm

re: #135 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

OK Gods. Madness achieved, you can proceed with Phase 2.

140 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:29:42pm

re: #139 Kragar

OK Gods. Madness achieved, you can proceed with Phase 2.

141 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:30:50pm

re: #140 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Not in the least. It makes sense in light of wingnuts trying to now play Assad up as a “secularist” who is also sorts of groovy with Christians.

142 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:31:15pm

re: #138 abolitionist

Making info available in databases that NSA created and/or contributed to could also be considered feeding info to law enforcement.

If it can only be accessed using warrants and other legal procedures, its disingenuous to call it “feeding”. Feeding implies the NSA is giving them the data with the understanding the receiving agency has to go check it out.

143 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:31:15pm

Teh Twitters is going to achieve Peak Crazy in 3 days, when the 12th anniversary commemorations of 9/11 coincide with BENGHAZI!!!11!!!!!

144 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:32:09pm
145 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:35:41pm

Really, nothing about the wingnuts and Assad is new or different. These are the same useful idiots who declared that keeping Mubarak and Col. Mo in power was ideal because of “stability.” Why wouldn’t they be alright with the idea of keeping Assad around?

146 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:36:01pm

Aikman and Buck never sounded so good in their NFL game coverage. Oh wait, I have MUTE on…
//

147 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:37:33pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

Just read this comment - you clearly did not understand what you were reading. The NSA is NOT feeding information to domestic law enforcement. That article is about a DEA data collection program targeted at Latin American narco-trafficking gangs.

From the article that you hilariously claim to have read more carefully than I: “The unit of the DEA that distributes the information is called the Special Operations Division, or SOD. Two dozen partner agencies comprise the unit, including the…NSA”

148 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:37:54pm

re: #136 Gus

[Embedded content]

My .02

149 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:38:30pm

re: #146 Feline Fearless Leader

Aikman and Buck never sounded so good in their NFL game coverage. Oh wait, I have MUTE on…
//

Joe Buck - the Greenwald of sports coverage.

150 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:39:48pm

re: #144 Vicious Babushka

Ted Cruz is both an embarrassment to Texas and a perfect embodiment of the Texas GOP.

151 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:40:22pm

Important safety tip:

Before helping a friend experiment with some cosmetic special effects, its helpful if you know that you have an allergic reaction to latex adhesives.

Him: “How you doing?”
Me: “Is it supposed to burn like this?”
Him: “Well, you should maybe feel a slight tingle. Let me - FUCK!” *grabs solvent*

152 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:42:49pm

re: #147 Laertes

From the article that you hilariously claim to have read more carefully than I: “The unit of the DEA that distributes the information is called the Special Operations Division, or SOD. Two dozen partner agencies comprise the unit, including the…NSA”

Right, the NSA is part of SOD, but how does this support your completely imaginary claim that the NSA is sharing their overseas intel databases with SOD?

Quote:

Today, the SOD offers at least three services to federal, state and local law enforcement agents: coordinating international investigations such as the Bout case; distributing tips from overseas NSA intercepts, informants, foreign law enforcement partners and domestic wiretaps; and circulating tips from a massive database known as DICE.

The DICE database contains about 1 billion records, the senior DEA officials said. The majority of the records consist of phone log and Internet data gathered legally by the DEA through subpoenas, arrests and search warrants nationwide. Records are kept for about a year and then purged, the DEA officials said.

Sorry, you’re just wrong. This is not the NSA’s overseas database, it’s a collection of phone data specifically targeted at narco-trafficking.

153 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:43:02pm

re: #148 darthstar

Refugee or Fugitive. Which has the greatest “impact”?

154 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:44:38pm

Off to find myself an unguent.

155 dog philosopher  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:44:48pm

re: #120 abolitionist

The NSA obviously isn’t sharing all their data with law enforcement, but the software tools and distributed database technologies and access methods that were developed to find OBL and other international terrorists, etc —those are being broadly marketed.

[Embedded content]

I cannot understand why you seem confident that nothing from NSA’s massive databases is being shared domestically for broader purposes beyond their lawful mandates, since it has come to light that such two-way data sharing is taking place routinely with various foreign agencies.

hmmm, so it turns out that Palentir uses an earlier version of some search technology of mine :-) :-) - i’ll try to sell them the latest version…

156 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:45:03pm
157 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:45:27pm

re: #153 jaunte

Refugee or Fugitive. Which has the greatest “impact”?

Freedom (Whistle)Blower

158 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:45:31pm

re: #136 Gus

[Embedded content]

GG is wrong. Snowden has been charged, and there has been a provisional arrest warrant issued.

That makes Snowden a fugitive.

159 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:46:01pm

re: #147 Laertes

Yes, we know that RT and Russia are upset that their pet terrorist, Viktor Bout got put away for being such an evil specimen of humanity. Now go get some more TP.

160 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:47:24pm

Did someone say “refugee” ???

Youtube Video

161 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:49:02pm

re: #147 Laertes

From the article that you hilariously claim to have read more carefully than I: “The unit of the DEA that distributes the information is called the Special Operations Division, or SOD. Two dozen partner agencies comprise the unit, including the…NSA”

So, in your mind a possibility is a certainty?

162 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:51:55pm

re: #158 Justanotherhuman

A person can be a fugitive; arrest warrants issued. The same person can seek asylum or refuge in another country. That can make the same person who is a fugitive an asylee or a refugee. But GG has already stated his intention to maximize the effect of the documents in his possession courtesy of Snowden’s espionage.

Greenwald’s intent is to do maximum damage to the US national security establishment - undermining the NSA’s ability to carry out its mission. Exaggerating capabilities or lack of oversight, publishing information that goes beyond claims of whistleblowing to revealing details of key missions.

Etc.

163 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:52:57pm

re: #161 b_sharp

Dudebros already have believed as much. Greenwald’s MO is to make claims that are undermined by the actual contents of the documents he and his cohorts have released.

164 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:55:01pm
165 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:55:12pm

re: #162 lawhawk

A person can be a fugitive; arrest warrants issued. The same person can seek asylum or refuge in another country. That can make the same person who is a fugitive an asylee or a refugee. But GG has already stated his intention to maximize the effect of the documents in his possession courtesy of Snowden’s espionage.

Greenwald’s intent is to do maximum damage to the US national security establishment - undermining the NSA’s ability to carry out its mission. Exaggerating capabilities or lack of oversight, publishing information that goes beyond claims of whistleblowing to revealing details of key missions.

Etc.

Yes, I get that. But GG is trying to jump the shark here by denying that ES is also a fugitive from US justice.

GG bobs and weaves a lot around the truth. Lots and lots of overdone obfuscation on his part.

166 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:55:46pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Here’s my original remark:

This article…about NSA feeding information that they collect under their justifiably broad foreign-intelligence mandate to domestic law enforcement agencies who operate under (again, justifiably) far more limited snooping authority, is dated August 5, 2013.

And here’s you:

Right, the NSA is part of SOD, but how does this support your completely imaginary claim that the NSA is sharing their overseas intel databases with SOD?

Now, I’m not sure what you’re up to with this business about “overseas intel databases,” a term that you’ve introduced here for reasons that aren’t clear to me, but I suppose it’s likely that the data that NSA gathers is stored in databases somewhere, before it’s passed on to DEA. From the article:

In a Florida drug case he was handling, the prosecutor said, a DEA agent told him the investigation of a U.S. citizen began with a tip from an informant. When the prosecutor pressed for more information, he said, a DEA supervisor intervened and revealed that the tip had actually come through the SOD and from an NSA intercept.

This all seems to support Schneier’s original claim: That the DEA is gaining access to NSA’s broader authority by disguising the source of the information that they’re receiving from NSA.

We all, I think, understand that operations targeting foreign nationals on foreign soil have different rules than those targeting Americans or people on American soil. When operations in the latter category collude with operations in the former category to unconstitutionally broaden their mandate, things have gone awry.

167 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:58:46pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

What a childish reaction…

168 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:59:32pm
169 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:59:41pm

re: #165 Justanotherhuman

One of the forces driving the Greensnow cult (and Greenwald himself) is a burning need to feel that they’re more moral and evolved than the rest of the plebeians, and so when someone describes them in terms that don’t fit their self-definitions, they lose their shit.

That’s why they’re always trying to reframe things to be more flattering to their massive egos; even though Snowden is a fugitive by a strict legal definition — he’s been charged with crimes and a warrant issued for his arrest — the Greensnow cult is compelled to try to force others to call him a “refugee.”

It’s a creepy tactic. One of many.

170 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:59:44pm

re: #2 Laertes

Excellent points, all.

Bruce Schneier is also all over this:

schneier.com

I don’t understand why Schneier has alighed with the Dudebro faction.

171 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 1:59:56pm

Cesare Battisti (born 1954)

Born: December 18, 1954 (age 58) Cisterna di Latina, Italy
Charge(s): Two murders and accomplice in other two
Penalty: Life imprisonment
Conviction status Refugee in Brazil

Cesare Battisti (born 18 December 1954) is an italian former member of the Armed Proletarians for Communism, a far-left militant and terrorist group which committed acts of illegality and crimes in Italy during the period known as “anni di piombo”. Sentenced for 4 homicides (2 policemen, 1 jeweler and 1 butcher) to life sentence in Italy. Currently he’s a writer and he lives as a free man in Brazil: after he flew to France and Mexico became a fiction author and writing 15 books…

172 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:00:40pm

re: #166 Laertes

Oh, so you were talking about sharing tips, specifically about DEA cases?

Was I supposed to be outraged about that?

173 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:01:39pm

re: #11 Laertes

Holy shit. You guys think the EFF are bad guys now? How crazy have you all gone?

They’re not the bad guys, just deluded. IMAO.

174 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:03:01pm

re: #166 Laertes

Here’s my original remark:

And here’s you:

Now, I’m not sure what you’re up to with this business about “overseas intel databases,” a term that you’ve introduced here for reasons that aren’t clear to me, but I suppose it’s likely that the data that NSA gathers is stored in databases somewhere, before it’s passed on to DEA. From the article:

This all seems to support Schneier’s original claim: That the DEA is gaining access to NSA’s broader authority by disguising the source of the information that they’re receiving from NSA.

We all, I think, understand that operations targeting foreign nationals on foreign soil have different rules than those targeting Americans or people on American soil. When operations in the latter category collude with operations in the former category to unconstitutionally broaden their mandate, things have gone awry.

I don’t see anything wrong with that. The drugs could have come from a foreign country (SA more than likely) and brought into the US. It would easily be within the NSA’s purview to have that info and work with local LE to locate the traffickers of any nationality.

175 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:03:03pm

re: #15 Decatur Deb

EFF is like Amnesty—singlemindedly pursuing a noble purpose regardless of where it might take them. That’s not always useful.

Right. I’d agree that they’re acting like simple ideologues in a complex situation.

176 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:04:13pm

Further, we’ve recently learned…

washingtonpost.com

…that the NSA is collecting vast amounts of data on Americans on American soil, justifying this with their claim that since such persons aren’t “targets” and the collection is incidental to their mission of targeting non-US persons, it’s permissible, and yet they turn right around and insist that once the data is lawfully collected, they’re entitled to do anything they like with that data.

Given that, why on Earth should I be confident that the NSA is taking any care at all to respect the limits of their mission?

177 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:04:22pm

Interesting that when gazing at clouds, when most people see bunnies, puppies and kittehs (or just interesting looking clouds)…there’s always some who insist that it’s really SHARKNADOS!
RUN FOR YOUR LIVES (and privacy)!!!!!11!!!

178 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:04:56pm

FFS.

179 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:05:36pm

NSA can haz mah gas bill.

180 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:05:49pm

re: #176 Laertes

Why should I take a liar at face value?
You, like Glenn, have exaggerated and outright lied about the NSA.
Two way street and all that.

181 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:07:51pm
182 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:10:02pm

Russian gay law raises alarm among Olympic sponsors

reuters.com

“Lately there has been a lot of discussion and I am pushed by several sponsors about what will happen with this new law in Russia,” IOC marketing chief Gerhard Heiberg told Sochi Games chief Dmitry Chernyshenko.

“Especially the American sponsors are afraid what could happen. This could ruin a lot for all of us.”

“We are not there to try to change the law in Russia,” he said during an official Sochi Games progress presentation to the IOC in the Argentine capital.

“This is an internal Russian decision but what will the consequences be? This is possibly a way where we could get some kind of invitation for people to make demonstrations.”

183 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:13:13pm

re: #176 Laertes

Really? “They’re entitled to do anything they like with that data?” Anything? That sounds pretty bad, all right.

Oh, wait.

The queries must be “reasonably likely to yield foreign intelligence information.” And the results are subject to the NSA’s privacy rules.

Oh, you mean there are privacy rules that they have to follow, and they can only do these searches if they’re expected to yield foreign intel info?

Wow, you know, that doesn’t sound like they can “do anything they like with the data” at all. In fact, it sounds like there are rules they have to follow.

184 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:15:10pm

re: #183 Charles Johnson

Really? “They’re entitled to do anything they like with that data?” Anything? That sounds pretty bad, all right.

Oh, wait.

Oh, you mean there are privacy rules that they have to follow, and they can only do these searches if they’re expected to yield foreign intel info?

Wow, you know, that doesn’t sound like they can “do anything they like with the data” at all. In fact, it sounds like there are rules they have to follow.

Which, of course, doesn’t sound as cool as the thought that everybody’s living in their own private X-Files fantasy, where the government is out to get them and only they know something that could bring down the whole house of cards if it ever got out to the public. Almost makes me want to run through the streets screaming “Soylent Green is made of people!!”

185 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:15:35pm

I can’t imagine what the NSA would want with any information that I provide online. Even if some poor shlub got assigned to following me around online they’d be bored off their ass in a matter of days.

186 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:16:51pm

re: #185 Lidane

I can’t imagine what the NSA would want with any information that I provide online. Even if some poor shlub got assigned to following me around online they’d be bored off their ass in a matter of days.

I offered the NSA guy watching my online life if he wanted to play internet spaceships.
He said no.
:(

187 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:17:33pm

re: #185 Lidane

I can’t imagine what the NSA would want with any information that I provide online. Even if some poor shlub got assigned to following me around online they’d be bored off their ass in a matter of days.

didn’t even take me an hour!
/

188 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:18:36pm

re: #185 Lidane

Same here. Not unless they find my purchases of allergy meds, chanukah candles and batteries interesting.

189 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:19:10pm

re: #185 Lidane

I can’t imagine what the NSA would want with any information that I provide online. Even if some poor shlub got assigned to following me around online they’d be bored off their ass in a matter of days.

“How many hours a day does this guy spend looking at LOLcats?!”

190 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:20:26pm

re: #176 Laertes

I have no fear of the NSA.

Now, the FBI? Which has been subverting the system for decades? Yep. Big biz that uses knowledge of us against us daily? Yep.

As for GG & Assange, we know they’re liars who hate freedom for anyone but themselves and their friends. They’ve show that repeatedly with their actions and some day both will learn that Karma is a 24 karat *****.

191 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:20:53pm

re: #187 sattv4u2

didn’t even take me an hour!
/

You were probably following the wrong person.

192 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:22:41pm

re: #191 b_sharp

You were probably following the wrong person.

He was following himself.
/

193 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:24:04pm

Having pointed out the hyperbole, though, I will say that this permission to remove restrictions on searching through inadvertently collected data from US citizens is exactly why I still believe that there are real issues of public transparency and accountability with some of the activities of the NSA and the FISC. I do find it disturbing that these kinds of decisions happen entirely in secret with no oversight or adversarial process (even secret ones).

But no, the NSA isn’t doing “anything they like” with anyone’s data.

194 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:24:34pm

re: #179 jaunte

NSA can haz mah gas bill.

NSA can pay mah gas bill. And phone bill. And cable.

195 b_sharp  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:24:59pm

re: #192 Pavlovian Hive Mind

He was following himself.
/

Predictable.

196 sattv4u2  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:25:31pm

re: #192 Pavlovian Hive Mind

He was following himself.
/

I like the view!

197 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:26:42pm

If can, then does. Because shut up that’s why.

The ideological backbone of Greenwald’s fantasies blogging reportage.

198 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:27:24pm

and let’s not forget those new “smart” electric meters!

I actually know people, who I always thought were intelligent, who are now either refusing to have the meters installed or have covered them with aluminum foil so the electric company and gubmint can’t spy on their electric usage.

::facepalm::

199 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:30:30pm
200 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:32:41pm
201 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:33:35pm

It seems more and more like the digital revolution has become a prime breeding ground for conspiracy theories. Every new technology developed to make our lives easier just seems to fit into this idea that some malevolent entity is following our every move, cataloging everything we do, and using it to control our lives.

Now excuse me while I check my Gmail account, update my Google+ page, check a few videos on Youtube, and see if I can find a good burger joint using Google Maps.//

202 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:34:23pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

and let’s not forget those new “smart” electric meters!

I actually know people, who I always thought were intelligent, who are now either refusing to have the meters installed or have covered them with aluminum foil so the electric company and gubmint can’t spy on their electric usage.

::facepalm::

You might want to tell them that doing that will all but ensure that the authorities are going to suspect them of running a marijuana-growing enterprise.

No surer way to get your door kicked in by the DEA.

203 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:35:38pm

re: #144 Vicious Babushka

Jesus McFuck.

204 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:36:41pm
205 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:38:19pm

re: #164 Charles Johnson

GG is starting to sound/read like the adults in Peanuts comics and cartoons.

Wah wah wah, wah wah wah.

206 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:39:37pm

re: #202 Dr Lizardo

You might want to tell them that doing that will all but ensure that the authorities are going to suspect them of running a marijuana-growing enterprise.

No surer way to get your door kicked in by the DEA.

Not surprising, but I think that is exactly what concerns at least one of the people I know. I told him that “they” can already figure it out, “smart meter” or the old kind. OTOH, if their power goes out, they are just f*cking themselves because one of the neat things about the “smart meters” is that it sends a power out notification signal back to the power company.
So just sit there in the dark and feel smug…

207 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:39:47pm

re: #200 Vicious Babushka

Is this what scared ice cream does? Acck. Some one is tapping on the glass. I am out of here and I am taking the chocolate chips with me.

208 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:40:29pm

re: #204 Gus

[Embedded content]

Interesting…Globo calls GG an activist and not a journalist…

209 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:41:00pm

re: #206 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not surprising, but I think that is exactly what concerns at least one of the people I know. I told him that “they” can already figure it out, “smart meter” or the old kind. OTOH, if their power goes out, they are just f*cking themselves because one of the neat things about the “smart meters” is that it sends a power out notification signal back to the power company.
So just sit there in the dark and feel smug…

I really don’t understand all the paranoia; I just simply don’t get it.

210 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:41:38pm

Off to mow the lawn. I have only a short window between the overflights of Keyhole 8 and Keyhole 10.

211 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:41:42pm

re: #208 Backwoods_Sleuth

That’s a Reuters article. It’s their description of Greenwald, which is about as accurate as you can get.

212 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:41:44pm

re: #208 Backwoods_Sleuth

Interesting…Globo calls GG an activist and not a journalist…

Reuters. I worded the page special that way so it shows up in the summary.

213 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:42:11pm
214 lawhawk  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:42:41pm

re: #210 Decatur Deb

Download the satellite finder for your smartphone so you’ll always know when it’s safe. Or, go online here.

215 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:43:45pm

Oldie but a goodie….

cat bearding

(edited to fix link)

216 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:43:50pm

re: #213 Charles Johnson

That reminds me of my neighbor’s cat. /half

217 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:44:22pm

re: #211 lawhawk

That’s a Reuters article. It’s their description of Greenwald, which is about as accurate as you can get.

oh, ok. Still funny

218 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:44:28pm

re: #215 Backwoods_Sleuth

Link does not work. It is a redirect.

219 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:44:44pm

Everyone, do not look at my Cacio e Pepe page!

(ackbar) It’s a trap! (/ackbar)

I’ve eaten two heaping bowls of it today.

220 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:46:09pm

re: #219 chadu

Too late. I have already looked and commented.

221 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:47:19pm

Stonehenge was built on solstice axis, dig confirms

222 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:49:41pm

re: #11 Laertes

Hly sht. Y gs thnk th FF r bd gs nw? Hw crz hv y ll gn?

The troll says what?

223 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:51:23pm

re: #211 lawhawk

That’s a Reuters article. It’s their description of Greenwald, which is about as accurate as you can get.

‘Professional Butthurt Liar’ would be an even more accurate description of Glenn Greenwald.

224 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:53:13pm


Derp.

225 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:53:25pm

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

How about “Dirty Rotten Liar?”

226 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:56:52pm

re: #224 Gus

Why are we listening to clickbaits?

227 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:56:58pm
228 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:58:42pm

re: #218 PhillyPretzel

Link does not work. It is a redirect.

hmmm… worked for me.
Try this one, not as many photos, but still good.

229 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:59:24pm

re: #228 Backwoods_Sleuth

That one worked. That is cute. :)

230 wrenchwench  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:01:22pm

Have to watch it at YouTube, but that’s OK.

Youtube Video

231 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:02:29pm

re: #229 PhillyPretzel

That one worked. That is cute. :)

ok, I see the problem in my initial post.
hopefully fixed link

232 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:11:39pm

re: #231 Backwoods_Sleuth

They were cute. :)

233 ericblair  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:12:31pm

re: #209 Dr Lizardo

I really don’t understand all the paranoia; I just simply don’t get it.

Because it makes you feel important and gives your life meaning. Of all the dire possibilities that go through a paranoid’s mind, “nobody really gives a shit what you’re doing” is about the least likely one.

234 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:16:21pm

re: #233 ericblair

Because it makes you feel important and gives your life meaning. Of all the dire possibilities that go through a paranoid’s mind, “nobody really gives a shit what you’re doing” is about the least likely one.

I guess that’s true.

235 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:16:24pm

re: #227 Gus

[Embedded content]

Possibility for peace = Ignoring what Assad is doing.

238 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:19:13pm

re: #235 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Possibility for peace = Ignoring what Assad is doing.

“Possibility for peace” is a joke. The US not engaging in hostilities with Syria is not going to bring the rebellion to end tomorrow. And the trio of Russia, China, and Iran are sure as fuck not going to agree to seeing Assad removed from power, peacefully or otherwise. No, what they are doing is promoting indifference, about turning a blind eye to the acts of men like Assad so long as Americans aren’t involved.

240 dog philosopher  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:26:43pm

re: #236 Charles Johnson

whahuh what the feck?

241 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:27:42pm

re: #238 Targetpractice

“Possibility for peace” is a joke. The US not engaging in hostilities with Syria is not going to bring the rebellion to end tomorrow. And the trio of Russia, China, and Iran are sure as fuck not going to agree to seeing Assad removed from power, peacefully or otherwise. No, what they are doing is promoting indifference, about turning a blind eye to the acts of men like Assad so long as Americans aren’t involved.

It is always the defender who starts a war. If people simply gave into the aggressors demands at once, there would be no need for hostilities.
///

242 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:29:35pm

re: #238 Targetpractice

“Possibility for peace” is a joke. The US not engaging in hostilities with Syria is not going to bring the rebellion to end tomorrow. And the trio of Russia, China, and Iran are sure as fuck not going to agree to seeing Assad removed from power, peacefully or otherwise. No, what they are doing is promoting indifference, about turning a blind eye to the acts of men like Assad so long as Americans aren’t involved.

To be fair, they’re also turning a blind eye to the fact that at best, Assad “winning” only differs another explosion of rebellion for five to ten years. And that by not intervening back when the rebels were not being reinforced by terrorist organizations, that there’s going to be ongoing skirmishes and arbitrary violence between Al Qaeda affiliates and Assad’s forces indefinitely.

243 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:34:28pm

re: #235 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Possibility for peace = Ignoring what Assad is doing.

But that isn’t peace, that’s just us not getting involved. We didn’t start Syria’s civil war, nor are we engaged in fighting it.

Some people really have a hard time accepting the realities and limitations of US actions.

244 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:46:38pm

re: #243 Dark_Falcon

But that isn’t peace, that’s just us not getting involved. We didn’t start Syria’s civil war, nor are we engaged in fighting it.

Some people really have a hard time accepting the realities and limitations of US actions.

I’ve had an emoprog nattering in my ear for days now about how the US is responsible for all the people Assad had killed because without our supplying the rebels, the rebellion would already be over. Then he starts going off again about the NWO and I reach for something stronger than tea.

245 antone  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:53:42pm

The technophobic double standards are stunning. I read “bombshell” headlines like Wired’s idiotic “NSA Revelations Cast Doubt on the Entire Tech Industry” and start tasting vomit in my mouth.

Does the fact that law enforcement has had the ability to tap landline phones since before we were all born “Cast Doubt on the Entire Telephone Industry?” Does the fact that agencies have had the power to intercept USPS mail for as long as it’s existed “Cast Doubt on the Entire Mail Industry?” Reading what’s on the envelope doesn’t even require a search warrant. (Opening and reading it does.)

This notion that government-proof privacy is guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment is an odd bird. There has never been a time in human history that it was possible to communicate at a distance and be guaranteed that the powers-that-be would be incapable of intercepting it. Agreeing not to abuse that power is a cornerstone of constitutional democracy.

246 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:57:02pm

re: #214 lawhawk

Download the satellite finder for your smartphone so you’ll always know when it’s safe. Or, go online here.

Yeah, like I would have a smartphone. I talk with those near me by tossing painted rocks. Admittedly, I communicate with my distant kids entirely by bank draught.

247 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:59:31pm

re: #245 antone

The technophobic double standards are stunning. I read “bombshell” headlines like Wired’s idiotic “NSA Revelations Cast Doubt on the Entire Tech Industry” and start tasting vomit in my mouth.

Does the fact that law enforcement has had the ability to tap landline phones since before we were all born “Cast Doubt on the Entire Telephone Industry?” Does the fact that agencies have had the power to intercept USPS mail for as long as it’s existed “Cast Doubt on the Entire Mail Industry?” Reading what’s on the envelope doesn’t even require a search warrant. (Opening and reading it does.)

This notion that government-proof privacy is guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment is an odd bird. There has never been a time in human history that it was possible to communicate at a distance and be guaranteed that the powers-that-be would be incapable of intercepting it. Agreeing not to abuse that power is a cornerstone of constitutional democracy.

The thing is that a whole lot of people who tend not to notice what abilities the governments has are now noticing. That wouldn’t be so bad if they still trusted the government, but suddenly realizing things can shake trust and into that gap creep slimeballs like Alex Jones.

248 antone  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:00:57pm

re: #198 Backwoods_Sleuth

Wait — you’re saying people literally cover their power meters with tinfoil hats?

That is beyond hilarious. It’s poetic.

249 urbanmeemaw  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:02:27pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

And David Sirota blames Obama’s narcissism for the world’s problems.

250 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:05:17pm

re: #248 antone

Wait — you’re saying people literally cover their power meters with tinfoil hats?

That is beyond hilarious. It’s poetic.

There have been refusals to permit installation.

bantexassmartmeters.com

251 antone  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:30:09pm

re: #175 chadu

I have a love/hate relationship with EFF, ACLU, CDT, etc. If they stopped at about 80% as far as they go on most issues, they’d have my enthusiastic support. But then they do things like file suit to challenge a law intended to fight the anonymous use of social media by sexual predators to “groom” future molestation or rape victims — because, they argue, convicted felons who’ve served time in prison for acts of sexual violence have an absolute right to anonymous online communication. (Nope, merely the right to unlimited Internet use with real identity attached isn’t sufficient. That’s the crux of the suit.)

When they crow about how a preliminary injunction blocking the will of voters (approved by a mind-blowing 81%) is a “victory for free speech,” that’s where I pause, consider that the real-world consequences in the aggregate are certain — more children and teens will be abducted, raped and/or murdered because of this ultra-libertarian policy if EFF prevails — and resolve that I can’t ever support these organizations, period, unless and until they renounce such extreme (but ideologically pure) positions.


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