Iowa Debates Permitting Blind People to Carry Guns in Public

Why not let them drive? Doesn’t that violate the ADA too?
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Michael Barber of Altoona, Iowa, examining a gun with his hands. Barber is blind and doesn’t believe eyesight is necessary to fire a weapon effectively.
CREDIT: Andrea Melendez/The Des Moines Register

As lawmakers across the country debate gun safety laws, law enforcement officials in Iowa are split on whether the state should continue issuing guns to blind people. So far the state has already issued several such permits, though it has not tracked how many.

Advocates for the permits make a strong legal case. Refusing to issue permits to people with visual impairments could very well violate the Americans with Disabilities Act, which prohibits people with disabilities from being treated differently under the law. Likewise, unlike driving, which is considered a privilege, gun ownership is generally understood to be a constitutional right, making it difficult to impose limitations on it. In Iowa, people with visual impairments are already allowed to own guns privately, so the question at hand is whether there is a different safety concern when it comes to letting them carry guns in public.

Warren Wethington, sheriff of Cedar County, Iowa, strongly supports the public permits because he understands that it is possible for blind people to learn how to shoot guns. His own daughter is legally blind, but he has taught her how to operate firearms and she expects to obtain a permit when she turns 21 in a few years. According to Wethington, “If sheriffs spent more time trying to keep guns out of criminals’ hands and not people with disabilities, their time would be more productive.”

More: Iowa Debates Permitting Blind People to Carry Guns in Public

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210 comments
1 RealityBasedSteve  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:07:00pm

I saw this story this morning while doing my “Starbucks Sunday” and was going to post it as soon as I got in. I see I’ve been beat on this one.

Wasn’t this a Saturday Nite Live Skit?

RBS

2 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:38:21pm

lolwut

3 calochortus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 2:46:42pm

What could possibly go wrong?

4 122 Year Old Obama  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:27:55pm

re: #3 calochortus

What could possibly go wrong?

EVERYTHING.

5 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:28:15pm

Note to self:

Avoid Iowa.

7 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:30:39pm
Michael Barber of Altoona, Iowa, examining a gun with his hands. Barber is blind and doesn’t believe eyesight is necessary to fire a weapon effectively.

O_o

8 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:31:30pm
9 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:32:55pm

re: #5 Kragar

Note to self:

Avoid Iowa.

And surrounding areas.

10 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:33:12pm

Once again, we find out that no good deed goes unpunished. That the “gun rights” crowd would twist the ADA in such a fashion comes as no surprise.

11 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:34:11pm

Not sure that I when I go to Iowa whether I want to make as much noise as possible or be as quiet as possible.

12 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:34:47pm

Couldn’t we just give them blanks?

//

13 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:35:12pm

re: #12 b.d.

Couldn’t we just give them blanks?

//

Would they even notice?
///

14 dog philosopher  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:35:52pm

if we deny blind people the right to carry guns the next thing you know people will be marrying their enchiladas

15 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:36:06pm

re: #13 Kragar

Would they even notice?
///

They’d notice. Blanks don’t produce recoil in the manner live rounds do.

16 Balfour Rage  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:37:01pm

Make no mistake about it, LaPierre will be asked about this and I eagerly await his answer. I mean, this is so fucked up I want to laugh.

17 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:37:08pm

re: #10 Targetpractice

Once again, we find out that no good deed goes unpunished. That the “gun rights” crowd would twist the ADA in such a fashion comes as no surprise.

And they wonder we think they are bonkers.

18 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:37:09pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

They’d notice. Blanks don’t produce recoil in the manner live rounds do.

No, these are special new bullets, says so right on the box…

Oh sorry. Just trust me. It totally says it right there.

19 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:37:32pm

Wait. Wait.

We’re talking about people that operate under the assumption that anyone with a legal firearm can only discharge that firearm to put Freedom Slugs (tm) into people who were obviously so guilty of something that they deserved instant death. Who believe that so intensely, that they lobby against taking weapons from spouse abusers, because said abusive spouses shouldn’t be deprived of the means to defend their family.

I await someone making the cases that blind people have other senses that compensate, and are thus even better at making the moral discernment to kill someone.

20 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:37:53pm

re: #18 Kragar

No, these are special new bullets, says so right on the box…

Oh sorry. Just trust me. It totally says it right there.

SMACK!

21 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:38:17pm

re: #18 Kragar

No, these are special new bullets, says so right on the box…

Oh sorry. Just trust me. It totally says it right there.

That’s right!! Obama wants to outlaw these the most!!

22 Balfour Rage  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:39:29pm

WHOA! Look at this! This isn’t new at all:

As lawmakers across the country debate gun safety laws, law enforcement officials in Iowa are split on whether the state should continue issuing guns to blind people. So far the state has already issued several such permits, thoughit has not tracked how many.

23 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:40:35pm

re: #22 Balfour Rage

WHOA! Look at this! This isn’t new at all:

We really are amazingly stupid.

24 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:43:15pm

I can just see this guy going for a target practice session. Excuse me but you point me in the direction of the firing line? Look down you are standing on it.

25 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:44:19pm
Barber is blind and doesn’t believe eyesight is necessary to fire a weapon effectively.

Well sure, for a solipsist. Just pull the trigger. The real trick is hitting only the target you intend to hit.

26 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:46:11pm

re: #25 jaunte

“All I do, is sit down at the typewriter, and start hittin’ the keys. Getting them in the right order, that’s the trick. That’s the trick.” - Garth Marenghi

27 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:49:21pm

Totally O/T but I’m watching “Rob Roy”.
IMHO, a much better film than “Braveheart”, and not just because I think Liam Neeson is much hawter than Mel Gibson has ever been….

28 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:49:28pm

Of course, like most such laws, this one will no doubt drag a trail of controversy and dead bodies behind it. At least until a blind black man shoots a white kid, then they’ll be quick to put the kibosh on the whole thing.

29 Balfour Rage  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:50:14pm

I’m Kid A, reporting from Planet Wingnut:

30 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:50:57pm

When blind people can do what’s illustrated in the below YouTube video, I’ll be in favor of it. Until then, count me out.

Youtube Video

31 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:51:08pm

re: #29 Balfour Rage

I’m Kid A, reporting from Planet Wingnut:

[Embedded content]

Bryan Fischer: Professional Victim.

32 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:52:20pm

re: #29 Balfour Rage

Twitter: New Megaphone for Big Stupid.

33 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:52:38pm

re: #29 Balfour Rage

I’m Kid A, reporting from Planet Wingnut:

[Embedded content]

I’m super!
- Big Gay Al

34 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:53:06pm

re: #29 Balfour Rage

I’m Kid A, reporting from Planet Wingnut:

[Embedded content]

“Could you stop demonizing me for my beliefs?”
“STOP REPRESSING ME, YOU DEMON SPAWN!”

35 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:54:00pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Bryan Fischer: Professional Victim.

I think we could solve two of our problems if we introduce Bryan Fischer to Glenn Greenwald.

36 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 3:54:59pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

Bryan Fischer: Professional Victim.

More like, Professional Victimizer with DARVO-handling experience.

37 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:00:58pm

Christians launch their own scouting group because Boy Scouts now allow gays

“Most of us are coming from a highly-structured environment that has 103 years of culture and language and program and symbols … and we are starting from scratch,” Stemberger said late Friday as he asked for patience as the group began “a program that we believe will be stronger, safer and more principled in every way.”

Whether the faith-based group gains popularity in the coming months could signal how successful the Boy Scouts of America will be at keeping members when the new policy takes effect on Jan. 1, 2014. BSA members were deeply divided over the decision to allow gay teens, with many vowing to quit the program.

I do feel strongly enough about the policy that I don’t want my kids there” in the Boy Scouts, said Jonathan Pickens, a California firefighter and father of three young boys who had not yet joined Scouting before the change in the membership guidelines. An Eagle Scout who has 22 years in the BSA with the troop that his dad founded, Pickens — who opposed lifting the ban on gay Scouts — would rather “take a little bit of a blind leap of faith and try to make this work.”

Pickens was in Nashville joining other families and former Boy Scout leaders from across the country to discuss topics such as rank advancement, uniforms and charter partners; former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee will address the meeting.

“I want to have a prominent faith component that will be weaved in every fiber of the program,” said Stemberger, an Orlando attorney. “But at the same time, we are not going to become religious and churchy. This is not another church program. This is going to be a masculine outdoor program to raise young men.”

A masculine outdoor program huh? That’s a new one on me.

38 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:02:11pm

re: #35 b.d.

I think we could solve two of our problems if we introduce Bryan Fischer to Glenn Greenwald.

Wouldn’t work. Even if Greenwald was able to “turn Mr. Fischer’s coat”, those two are far to egotistical to stand being around each other.

39 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:02:31pm

re: #7 Pavlovian Hive Mind

O_o

Of course not, you didn’t know you could line up a perfect headshot using your hearing alone?

40 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:03:21pm

re: #37 Eclectic Cyborg

Christians launch their own scouting group because Boy Scouts now allow gays

A masculine outdoor program huh? That’s a new one on me.

Jesus Camp with merit badges.

41 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:04:31pm

I’m sorry but I really need to ask this question: What the hell is it with America and guns? I just don’t get it.

I mean I don’t dislike guns. I actually enjoy target shooting when I find the time. I’m talking more about gun culture.

42 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:06:03pm

re: #40 Decatur Deb

Jesus Camp with merit badges.

And strong men.

43 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:06:20pm

Gun sales must grow. At all costs.

44 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:07:06pm

re: #42 Pavlovian Hive Mind

And strong men.

Rev. Ted Haggard.

45 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:07:36pm

re: #37 Eclectic Cyborg

Get your Sinclair Lewis merit badge!

46 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:08:16pm

re: #42 Pavlovian Hive Mind

And strong men.

Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?

Joey, have you ever been in a… in a Turkish prison?

47 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:08:36pm

re: #45 Amory Blaine

Get your Sinclair Lewis merit badge!

Pray away the heat stroke.

48 Tigger2  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:09:37pm

This has to be one of the most fucking stupid ideas I have ever heard.

49 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:10:28pm

re: #48 Tigger2

This has to be one of the most fucking stupid idea I have ever heard.

You must be more specific. The thread has evolved.

50 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:10:57pm

re: #48 Tigger2

This has to be one of the most fucking stupid idea I have ever heard.

Perhaps you should surround yourself with strong men.

51 Tigger2  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:13:24pm

re: #48 Tigger2

This has to be one of the most fucking stupid ideas I have ever heard.

The original post.

Was supposed to be to you Deb to answer your question.

52 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:13:57pm
53 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:14:23pm

0900: Dangerous Snake Identification
1000: Dangerous Snake Handling
1030: Biblical Snakebite Treatment
Noon: Memorial Service

54 Tigger2  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:15:28pm

re: #50 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Perhaps you should surround yourself with strong men.

I am a 60 your old strong man. lol

55 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:15:36pm

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m sorry but I really need to ask this question: What the hell is it with America and guns? I just don’t get it.

I mean I don’t dislike guns. I actually enjoy target shooting when I find the time. I’m talking more about gun culture.

The conclusion I’ve come to?

Firearms are the holy icon of the religion known as America.¹

Use of this holy icon is displaying the believer’s true faith in the religion.

The death and injuries caused by the holy icon spill the blood necessary to keep the religion pure and the universe working as it should. Rather in the manner the Aztec religion required frequent massive infusions of blood.

Failing that, many men feel inadequate about a piece of their anatomy.

¹ Note: the religion is a separate thing from the nation although, for the most part, they are geographically contiguous. There are Americans, that is members of the religion, here in Canada as well. I’ve also know some from the UK and Australia. I don’t know if the religion has affected the non-English speaking world though.

56 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:16:19pm

See No Evil Hear No Evil. Great movie.

57 BongCrodny  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:18:55pm

EVERYBODY PUT YOUR HANDS UP IN THE AIR AND NO ONE WILL GET HURT.

Are they up yet?

58 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:19:48pm

re: #57 BongCrodny

I am keeping my hands on the keyboard. /

59 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:21:57pm

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m sorry but I really need to ask this question: What the hell is it with America and guns? I just don’t get it.

I mean I don’t dislike guns. I actually enjoy target shooting when I find the time. I’m talking more about gun culture.

In this case its that the wingnuts have a case under the letter of the law and other people like myself who think blindness is cause for denial of a CCW permit (but not for denial of firearms ownership, IMO) are afraid to say ‘No’.

State legislators and congresspeople in more rural districts often cannot vote ‘no’ on almost any gun bill for political reasons. To cast a ‘no’ vote would mean their constituents would start getting mailers and robo-calls about how “your representative voted to take away your guns!!!11”. That would of course be untrue, but that won’t stop the hostile ads and such ads can kill reelection chances.

There is also the real possibility that an ADA challenge to denial of a CCW permit based on blindness might stand up. That is worrisome because because a civil finding that a person violated the ADA will stay with that person for life and can make it hard to get fired.

60 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:22:16pm

The DMV vision test is nothing but big government communism.

61 A Mom Anon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:24:02pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

Our family actually got to see this a few years ago at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park on the big island. I was so glad we were able to do that. Amazing day, we had an awesome tour guide and bus driver. I doubt we’ll ever be able to get there again, but I am really grateful we made it there once. Hawaii is so lovely, but damn, it’s expensive, if you’re a tourist at least. That’s a great photo.

62 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:24:51pm

re: #60 Amory Blaine

The DMV vision test is nothing but big government communism.

The DMV isn’t subject to the Heller and MacDonald decisions.

63 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:26:39pm

re: #61 A Mom Anon

Our family actually got to see this a few years ago at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park on the big island. I was so glad we were able to do that. Amazing day, we had an awesome tour guide and bus driver. I doubt we’ll ever be able to get there again, but I am really grateful we made it there once. Hawaii is so lovely, but damn, it’s expensive, if you’re a tourist at least. That’s a great photo.

The government sent me to Hawaii 5 times. Total waking hours on the ground: 12.

64 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:31:00pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb

The government sent me to Hawaii 5 times. Total waking hours on the ground: 12.

Working on subs instead?

65 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:33:26pm

re: #64 William Barnett-Lewis

Working on subs instead?

Nah—passing through, sometimes at a run. Did get to see Mauna Kea Observatory—from the plane window.

66 erik_t  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:34:02pm

I think our government and our country would be a profoundly saner and more sensibly-run place if each and every adult were required by law to laugh his or her ass off at work precisely three (3) times per year.

The first clerk ever asked to file a blind CCW permit would, hopefully, have not yet used up his annual allotment.

67 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:34:04pm

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m sorry but I really need to ask this question: What the hell is it with America and guns? I just don’t get it.

It’s part of a larger mythology about violence and legitimation of violence; that the rugged individualist enacting violence has greater moral discernment than a (bureaucratic, therefore bad) legal system. In no small part because the former is less forgiving, but also because it maps retaliatory violence onto the concept of justice.

It’s honor culture, collapsing into moral solipsism. Part of the incoherence of US “gun culture”—which is really a subset that are just really vocal—is that it comes down to the nuts having no concept of justice beyond “what feels right to me”—which is a matter of ego and personal outrage. This is why you have nuts who *need* shooting victims to always be guilty of something. It’s not really about guns…it’s about feeling a right to engage in violence to satisfy some personal need.

The gun is just the preferred signifier of personal violent autonomy. Lots of people (like me) own guns, but don’t view them as Meaningful Objects…it’s a tool, a tool that I (and many others) are cautious with precisely because of its killing potential. Which is why I feel no kinship with the NRA, GOA, or my friends who get all “MOLON LABE” about their weapons.

68 darthstar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:34:07pm

Lot of 3 point or less games today. (I don’t want to talk about my Vikings.) Niners-Packers staying close right now.

69 Bubblehead II  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:34:08pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Water wins. Worlds largest heat sink.

70 A Mom Anon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:35:52pm

re: #63 Decatur Deb

I loved it there, but I am not sure how I’d feel about living there. I wonder if I’d feel claustrophobic or what if there was a freakish weather thing and half the place flooded? I’m a bit too old and injured to start surfing, if I were younger, the North Shore would be somewhere I’d consider living.

Pearl Harbor was an unexpected thing too. When we visited the USS Arizona memorial, everyone was all chatty and talkative til we got inside. Even the little kids got quiet, people whispered to each other, it was really thought provoking.

71 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:36:05pm

re: #66 erik_t

I think our government and our country would be a profoundly saner and more sensibly-run place if each and every adult were required by law to laugh his or her ass off at work precisely three (3) times per year.

The first clerk ever asked to file a blind CCW permit would, hopefully, have not yet used up his annual allotment.

Just give him a parking validation slip. Who’d know?

72 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:36:21pm

I watched Les Mis.

Holy crap, it’s an OPERA! I thought it was going to be, you know, a musical, where there’s regular speaking dialogue and every once in a while they break into song and a big production number.

But they sing the whole entire thing!

It’s like Die Götterdamerung, but in English!

73 calochortus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:36:37pm

While I’m certainly not in favor of issuing gun permits to the totally blind, I would like to point out that there may be people who are legally blind who may be able to handle a gun safely. Or not. It is a possibility, though.

74 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:37:48pm

re: #73 calochortus

While I’m certainly not in favor of issuing gun permits to the totally blind, I would like to point out that there may be people who are legally blind who may be able to handle a gun safely. Or not. It is a possibility, though.

What could possibly go wrong?//

75 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:38:49pm

DERP

76 calochortus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:38:52pm

re: #74 Vicious Babushka

What could possibly go wrong?//

That would be my comment #3…

77 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:38:53pm

I’ll support blind people being given guns if the NRA leadership will pay to move all those gun owners into the same secure gated communities that they live in.

78 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:39:56pm

I’m confused as to who David Sirota thinks he is talking to. I mean, who is saying YAY WAR!!!

How many bombs has the U.S. dropped on Syria so far? I lost count.

79 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:41:54pm

re: #68 darthstar

Lot of 3 point or less games today. (I don’t want to talk about my Vikings.) Niners-Packers staying close right now.

The boyfriend is currently having an extended breakdown over the Packers being down by 3.

At least his fantasy football opponent had the sense to bench Jordy Nelson before the game started or I’d really be hearing about it. Heh.

80 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:41:58pm

re: #78 Vicious Babushka

I’m confused as to who David Sirota thinks he is talking to. I mean, who is saying YAY WAR!!!

How many bombs has the U.S. dropped on Syria so far? I lost count.

Sirota is just trolling the Twitter looking for a scrap.

81 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:42:06pm
82 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:42:29pm

ISTR that many Democrats were opposed to a war that was started by JFK and continued by LBJ. Was David Sirota even alive then?

83 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:43:05pm

re: #70 A Mom Anon

I loved it there, but I am not sure how I’d feel about living there. I wonder if I’d feel claustrophobic or what if there was a freakish weather thing and half the place flooded? I’m a bit too old and injured to start surfing, if I were younger, the North Shore would be somewhere I’d consider living.

Pearl Harbor was an unexpected thing too. When we visited the USS Arizona memorial, everyone was all chatty and talkative til we got inside. Even the little kids got quiet, people whispered to each other, it was really thought provoking.

One of my quick stops ended at Kwajalein (after bouncing off Johnston island). Kwaj is what Hawaii would be if it had about 1000 people.

Image: kwajalein.brochure.edit.jpg

84 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:44:06pm

re: #82 Vicious Babushka

Before Sirota the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the derp.

85 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:44:08pm

re: #68 darthstar

Lot of 3 point or less games today. (I don’t want to talk about my Vikings.) Niners-Packers staying close right now.

Well, we can talk about a 3 point game then: Chicago Bears 24, Cincinnati Bengals 21.

Go Bears!

86 Targetpractice  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:45:50pm

re: #75 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

Dave, was Saddam actively gassing his people as Bush was trying to lead us to war? Or was he using decades old crimes to justify taking action? There’s a statute of limitations on these things, Dave. If we don’t take down Assad now because he’s using chemical weapons, we can’t take him down in 5 years while pointing to today as justification.

87 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:46:57pm

re: #82 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

ISTR that many Democrats were opposed to a war that was started by JFK and continued by LBJ. Was David Sirota even alive then?

For the record: We had about 300 guys in Vietnam (MAAG-V) under Eisenhower. The fuze was lit.

gdc.gale.com

88 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:47:51pm

It’s sad to think so many people view the Iraq and Syria situations as VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL when they are anything but.

On a side note, a story I read earlier from a major media outlet stated the Iraq war had being going on for over 9 years now. Unless I’m mistaken, it’s actually been nearly TEN and a half.

89 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:48:30pm

Misleading.

90 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:49:43pm

At least a loss early in the year in the NFL doesn’t mean that your season is over. I’m looking at you Florida, Texas and USC.

91 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:50:49pm

A March 2006 State Department cable from the American Embassy in Damascus described how Syrians seemed to be exploiting trade with the West. “Syrian businessmen regularly report on the ease with which their fellow businessmen illegally import U.S. commodities with seeming impunity, as well as express concerns that the USG’s lack of enforcement of the economic sanctions” are “hurting those that choose to play by the rules.”

Those transactions presumably included chemicals that could be precursors for chemical warfare.

The Americans were not the only ones concerned.

According to another leaked cable, the Netherlands discussed how monoethylene glycol, an important raw material used to manufacture urethane and antifreeze, was shipped by a Dutch concern to the Syrian Ministry of Industry, considered a front for the Syrian military. The Dutch outlined how the chemical could also be used as a precursor for sulfur mustard, and possibly for VX and sarin.

92 makeitstop  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:51:03pm

re: #88 Eclectic Cyborg

On a side note, a story I read earlier from a major media outlet stated the Iraq war had being going on for over 9 years now. Unless I’m mistaken, it’s actually been nearly TEN and a half.

Well, that is over nine years, technically.

93 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:51:40pm

Gah. Humans. So dumb.

94 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:51:42pm

re: #75 Vicious Babushka

There’s a flaw with Sirota’s derping. Saddam gassed the Kurds in 1988. We didn’t invade Iraq until 2003.

Maybe we should wait until 2028 to strike Syria, just to make the dudebros happy.

95 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:51:44pm

re: #86 Targetpractice

Dave, was Saddam actively gassing his people as Bush was trying to lead us to war? Or was he using decades old crimes to justify taking action? There’s a statute of limitations on these things, Dave. If we don’t take down Assad now because he’s using chemical weapons, we can’t take him down in 5 years while pointing to today as justification.

Also, Bush was able to push the war on Iraq because 9/11!!!11!!!!!! Even though Saddam didn’t have anything to do with Bin Laden or Al Qaeda.

96 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:53:44pm

Sirota is projecting like an IMAX. The only narcissists that I can see for miles around are him & Greenwald.

Even Snowden has shut his pie hole. Not voluntarily, but still.

97 erik_t  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:55:34pm

re: #96 Vicious Babushka

Even Snowden has shut his pie hole. Not voluntarily, but still.

In Soviet Russia, pie hole shuts you.

98 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:55:51pm

re: #96 Vicious Babushka

Sirota is projecting like an IMAX. The only narcissists that I can see for miles around are him & Greenwald.

Even Snowden has shut his pie hole. Not voluntarily, but still.

Where is Snowie?

Nobody has ponied up the 50k to Greenwald to get the interview yet? Poor birdie in the gilded gulag.

99 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:56:32pm

re: #94 Lidane

There’s a flaw with Sirota’s derping. Saddam gassed the Kurds in 1988. We didn’t invade Iraq until 2003.

Maybe we should wait until 2028 to strike Syria, just to make the dudebros happy.

Saddam had also gassed the Iranians a year before (1987) with our overt approval and intentional targeting assistance. When he gassed the Kurds, we ran interference for him in the UN, as we’d done repeatedly before.

Our hands aren’t clean, that’s for sure, but Syria and Iraq are entirely different situations. In Syria we have four countries, us, UK, France and Germany all independently verifying the current use of gas by Assad’s regime. In a few weeks to a couple of months the UN inspectors report will be in, and only a fool doubts that it will say the same thing.

100 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:56:40pm

re: #92 makeitstop

Well, that is over nine years, technically.

Agreed, but still why would the writer pick 9 years as an arbitrary figure?

101 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:57:02pm

[Flips desk.]

102 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:57:32pm

In America, you keep secrets.

In Soviet Russia, secrets keep you!

103 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:58:07pm

That desk must be getting pretty beat up by now.

104 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:58:40pm
105 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 4:58:46pm

re: #100 Eclectic Cyborg

Agreed, but still why would the writer pick 9 years as an arbitrary figure?

Check first pub dates?

106 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:00:01pm


Derp.

107 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:01:26pm

re: #106 Gus

wildly irresponsible

*passes out*

108 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:01:46pm

re: #103 jaunte

That desk must be getting pretty beat up by now.

Pours gasoline over desk…

lights match…

109 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:02:18pm

re: #107 jaunte

110 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:03:12pm

re: #108 Gus

::: calls Fire Dept :::

111 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:03:49pm

re: #87 Decatur Deb

For the record: We had about 300 guys in Vietnam (MAAG-V) under Eisenhower. The fuze was lit.

gdc.gale.com

The fuze was lit for South Vietnam to ignite, but it was not the US that lit that fuse. North Vietnam lit that fuse, aided by President Diem’s corruption and brutality.

112 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:04:00pm

re: #110 PhillyPretzel

::: calls Fire Dept :::

They won’t come. I’m not subscribed to the Libertarian Fire Dept.

113 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:04:18pm


This is incredibly dishonest. The UK, France and German intelligence services have all independently confirmed the use of gas by the Assad regime. I’m fairly certain that Sirota knows this.

When the UN report comes back will that also be dismissed as if it doesn’t exist?

114 Mentis Fugit  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:04:21pm

re: #108 Gus

Pours gasoline over desk…

lights match…

The gasoline is supposed to fuel the chainsaw, you little arsonist, you.

115 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:04:39pm

re: #112 Gus

::: Pulls out fire extinguisher :::

116 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:05:07pm

re: #112 Gus

They won’t come. I’m not subscribed to the Libertarian Fire Dept.

People shouldn’t be having fires if they can’t afford them.

117 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:05:33pm

re: #108 Gus

Pours gasoline over desk…

lights match…

That’s decent cue for some Fall Out Boy:

Youtube Video

118 Internet Tough Guy  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:06:32pm

re: #113 goddamnedfrank


This is incredibly dishonest. The UK, France and German intelligence services have all independently confirmed the use of gas by the Assad regime. I’m fairly certain that Sirota knows this.

When the UN report comes back will that also be dismissed as if it doesn’t exist?

Don’t be silly. You know as well as I do that there is only one trustworthy source of such information - Russia.

119 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:07:34pm

Is Mom Anon here?

You must read this.

120 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:08:03pm

re: #113 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]


This is incredibly dishonest. The UK, France and German intelligence services have all independently confirmed the use of gas by the Assad regime. I’m fairly certain that Sirota knows this.

When the UN report comes back will that also be dismissed as if it doesn’t exist?

UK as well? I know Israel did as well. Of course, Israel falls on deaf ears with that bunch. Then it would be:

USA
UK
France
Germany
Israel

121 Mentis Fugit  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:08:14pm

re: #116 b.d.

People shouldn’t be having fires if they can’t afford them.

Is that you, Marcus Licinius Crassus?

122 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:08:50pm

re: #113 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]


This is incredibly dishonest. The UK, France and German intelligence services have all independently confirmed the use of gas by the Assad regime. I’m fairly certain that Sirota knows this.

When the UN report comes back will that also be dismissed as if it doesn’t exist?

No, it will simply be alleged without evidence that the UN did America’s bidding.

123 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:09:58pm

People that scratch their heads about who wins the Nobel Peace Prize need to keep in mind that dynamite was invented by Alfred Nobel.

124 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:10:25pm

re: #121 Mentis Fugit

Is that you, Marcus Licinius Crassus?

Actually, that’s likely to cause b.d. to claim to be Spartacus.

/Must I?

125 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:10:32pm

While we have our minds on slaughter, I went back to that photo of Kwajalein. That’s the biggest piece of it, total is 1,500 acres. 8,000 men died to own it in February 1944.

Image: kwajalein.brochure.edit.jpg

126 Carlos Danger  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:13:43pm

When is Iowa going to allow sight dogs to have guns? Huh, huh?

127 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:14:05pm

re: #105 Decatur Deb

Check first pub dates?

Can’t be that old. It was in reference to a potential attack on Syria.

128 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:14:45pm

re: #125 Decatur Deb

While we have our minds on slaughter, I went back to that photo of Kwajalein. That’s the biggest piece of it, total is 1,500 acres. 8,000 men died to own it in February 1944.

Image: kwajalein.brochure.edit.jpg

Had to be done. We needed a viable air base in the Marshalls to neutralize the Japanese forces there and in the Carolines while we pushed on to the Marianas.

Japan refused to accept it had lost the war by that point, and its refusal cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

129 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:15:58pm

re: #126 Carlos Danger

When is Iowa going to allow sight dogs to have guns? Huh, huh?

When the Iowa Supreme Court rules that their owners have right to marry said dogs.

130 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:15:58pm

re: #120 Gus

UK as well?

Oops, no, you’re right. UK has only independently confirmed the fact that sarin was used, not by whom.

The positive tests for sarin were completed this week and made on clothes and soil taken from the site of the attack in Ghouta, eastern Damascus on 21 August. The tests were carried out in the past seven days by British scientists at the Porton Down facility, and will be deployed by Cameron in a fresh attempt to persuade the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, to do more to force the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, to the negotiating table.

The samples brought to the UK from the Syrian borders are different to the hair and blood samples tested in the US. Details of those test results were released by the US secretary of state, John Kerry, four days ago.

131 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:17:10pm

I suppose it’s possible (and stomach turning) that some of the opposing forces are carrying out the gas attacks to frame Assad in order to provoke Western action against him.

132 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:17:50pm

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

The fuze was lit for South Vietnam to ignite, but it was not the US that lit that fuse. North Vietnam lit that fuse, aided by President Diem’s corruption and brutality.

Actually, the fuse was lit when Truman allowed France to take back it’s colony rather than assist the nationalists in setting up their own nation. Had we done that we would have side stepped much of the mess of the next 30 years. It’s rarely remembered that the government Ho Chi Minh was setting up had over 2/3 of the members it’s first congress were non-communist (even including the Diem family’s party) but being pushed into a colonial war choked off that multi-party government before it could take hold.

133 erik_t  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:19:16pm

re: #132 William Barnett-Lewis

You could blame Wilson instead. I generally like blaming Wilson.

Way to dump every other intelligent demand in order to get your precious League of Nations, dumbass.

134 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:19:35pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

Oops, no, you’re right. UK has only independently confirmed the fact that sarin was used, not by whom.

UN results coming soon. Not sure if that will include the perp.

135 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:19:52pm
136 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:20:23pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

Had to be done. We needed a viable air base in the Marshalls to neutralize the Japanese forces there and in the Carolines while we pushed on to the Marianas.

Japan refused to accept it had lost the war by that point, and its refusal cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

And later kept fighting till Hirohito accepted the reality of what the two nukes meant - and even then there was an attempt at a coup against the Emperor’s wishes. I’ve just grateful Olympic and Coronet were never needed.

137 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:20:28pm

Dynamite of course has industry uses. It’s not just about making bombs.

138 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:20:48pm

Sad that these things have to be explained in this day and age.

139 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:20:55pm

re: #137 Gus

Such as “Jamie wants a big boom!”

140 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:21:14pm

Broken clock…

141 jaunte  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:21:30pm

re: #135 Gus

This could be the first instance of the ‘cool guy doesn’t look at explosion behind him’ scenario.

142 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:21:35pm

re: #133 erik_t

You could blame Wilson instead. I generally like blaming Wilson.

Way to dump every other intelligent demand in order to get your precious League of Nations, dumbass.

No, I chose to blame Truman on this (and I generally like him) because FDR had made plans to allow all the colonial lands we liberated to stay liberated.

143 calochortus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:22:07pm

re: #137 Gus

Dynamite of course has industry uses. It’s not just about making bombs.

Indeed, it was developed as a far safer explosive than nitroglycerin.

144 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:23:56pm

re: #130 goddamnedfrank

Same article details the German intelligence:

German intelligence this week claimed to have intercept evidence revealing the Syrian military had been behind the attacks, but there is little irrefutable material about the provenance of the attack in the public domain.

WTF does the bolded part even mean? I’m sorry people, but until Wikipedia accepts it as fact it’s not irrefutable and in the public domain.

Germany’s already stated that they’re not going to intervene, so why would their government cook up false information that can only make Merkel’s job more difficult?

We’re witnessing the event horizon of the conspiracy theory, where all information is swallowed up, bent and twisted by tidal forces and incorporated into the black hole of the conspiracy theory itself.

145 dog philosopher  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:24:03pm

Question to pro-Syria-war Dems: Why did you oppose war w/ Saddam who gassed his people, but now support war with Syria?

because obama is not starting out by proposing to invade and take over syria

146 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:24:59pm

re: #133 erik_t

You could blame Wilson instead. I generally like blaming Wilson.

Way to dump every other intelligent demand in order to get your precious League of Nations, dumbass.

And he didn’t even get the US into the League, because he was so unwilling to concede anything that he preferred to let the idea fail rather than try to get changes to answer the concerns of the Senate.

Woodrow Wilson ultimately had a problem with the Constitution, as he could not accept the limitation placed upon the presidency.

148 Interesting Times  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:25:46pm

re: #143 calochortus

Indeed, it was developed as a far safer explosive than nitroglycerin.

Because the latter is just like sex!!!1!!

149 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:26:21pm

re: #136 William Barnett-Lewis

And later kept fighting till Hirohito accepted the reality of what the two nukes meant - and even then there was an attempt at a coup against the Emperor’s wishes. I’ve just grateful Olympic and Coronet were never needed.

Buddy was a signalman on a Yard Mine Sweeper, a wooden ship so small that his was used at Okinawa to dash towards the beach and anchor to act as a buoy marking the landing crafts’ line of departure. He got away with it at Okinawa, but they had orders for the Home Islands. Man had no problems with The Bomb at all.

150 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:27:51pm

re: #147 Amory Blaine

Rand Paul Wants To Abolish The Americans With Disabilities Act, Citing Fairness ‘To The Business Owner’

I wonder if he’d be singing the same tune if he suddenly wound up in a wheel chair for the rest of his life.

You’re a mean one, Mr. Paul.

151 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:28:22pm

re: #145 dog philosopher

Question to pro-Syria-war Dems: Why did you oppose war w/ Saddam who gassed his people, but now support war with Syria?

because obama is not starting out by proposing to invade and take over syria

(Psst. Hasn’t ruled it out either, if Syria “implodes”.)

152 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:28:35pm

re: #135 Gus

Dupont in Delaware got started with explosives.

153 Bubblehead II  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:29:01pm

re: #57 BongCrodny

EVERYBODY PUT YOUR HANDS UP IN THE AIR AND NO ONE WILL GET HURT.

Are they up yet?

I don’t think so. Is your kevlar stronger than mine?

BTW. Evening Lizards..

154 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:29:35pm

Sex and drugs and rock and roll. Drugs being essentially chemicals. Tune in, turn on (with chemicals) drop out. LSD, another chemical. Irony.

155 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:29:49pm

re: #152 PhillyPretzel

Dupont in Delaware got started with explosives.

Was looking at that.

156 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:30:22pm

re: #152 PhillyPretzel

Dupont in Delaware got started with explosives.

Most famous for Duco cement. //

157 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:30:30pm

re: #152 PhillyPretzel

Dupont in Delaware got started with explosives.

Still at it. I’ve had one of their courses on initiators.

158 calochortus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:30:42pm

re: #148 Interesting Times

Because the latter is just like sex!!!1!!

Um, sure. If you say so ;)

159 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:30:45pm

re: #142 William Barnett-Lewis

No, I chose to blame Truman on this (and I generally like him) because FDR had made plans to allow all the colonial lands we liberated to stay liberated.

FDR’d made such plans, but de Gaulle hadn’t known about them and Truman decided that keeping France satisfied was more important than giving the Vietnamese their own country. FDR might well have ended up having to cave on the point, though we’ll never know. What we can say is that Harry Truman was not as bold in such matters as FDR had been, at least not yet. within a few years he was, but not in 1945.

160 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:31:28pm

re: #145 dog philosopher

Question to pro-Syria-war Dems: Why did you oppose war w/ Saddam who gassed his people, but now support war with Syria?

because obama is not starting out by proposing to invade and take over syria

Saddam Hussein gassed people during the Reagan administration.

161 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:32:06pm

Chemo-therapy.

Radiation-therapy.

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:32:16pm

re: #147 Amory Blaine

Rand Paul Wants To Abolish The Americans With Disabilities Act, Citing Fairness ‘To The Business Owner’

More proof than he’s a dangerous lunatic, just like his dad.

163 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:33:39pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

FDR’d made such plans, but de Gaulle hadn’t known about them and Truman decided that keeping France satisfied was more important than giving the Vietnamese their own country. FDR might well have ended up having to cave on the point, though we’ll never know. What we can say is that Harry Truman was not as bold in such matters as FDR had been, at least not yet. within a few years he was, but not in 1945.

Had to be a Dulles brother or two in on that.

164 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:33:49pm

Ban chemicals!

165 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:34:10pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

Although to be fair that article was from Candidate Paul in 2010. I doubt he has changed his stance however.

166 Internet Tough Guy  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:34:59pm

re: #164 Gus

No chemicals should be banned unless all chemicals are banned.

All chemicals are the same, after all.

167 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:36:16pm

re: #166 Internet Tough Guy

No chemicals should be banned unless all chemicals are banned.

All chemicals are the same, after all.

Only a hundred or so kinds.

168 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:36:49pm

Speaking of which…

The Truth About Monsanto and LSD

All products made by Monsanto are produced using LSD and its derivatives. It’s intentional: they want that stuff in your bloodstream.

169 dog philosopher  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:36:50pm

re: #160 Amory Blaine

Saddam Hussein gassed people during the Reagan administration.

yah & i would have appreciated the reagan administration doing something to try and stop it then instead of shaking his hand and helping him

170 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:36:59pm
Without chemicals, life itself would be impossible - Old Monsanto Ad
171 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:37:44pm

In Rand Paul land, business owners should be able to kick out minorties and disabled people, while making sure Christians are a protected class.

172 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:37:49pm

re: #170 b.d.

Yep. Also. True.

173 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:37:52pm

That sound you hear is a bunch of New York Giants fans throwing shit at their TVs.

First play, first pass — Manning throws an interception. They’d just finished announcing the starting line, FFS. Now the Cowboys are up by 3. ROFL.

174 dog philosopher  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:38:12pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

(Psst. Hasn’t ruled it out either, if Syria “implodes”.)

anything that is done will surely be subject to the law of unintended consequences

175 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:39:16pm

re: #170 b.d.

Me in High School:

“SAY NO TO DRUGS!”
“What about drugs like aspirin or penicillin?”
“Sit down and shut up, Kragar.”

176 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:39:17pm

re: #171 Kragar

In Rand Paul land, business owners should be able to kick out minorties and disabled people, while making sure Christians are a protected class.

Rand Paul Land sounds an awful lot like Republican Land these days, given the rhetoric from the “job creators” we’ve been hearing.

177 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:39:57pm

People freaking out over GMOs then pouring acetone on their finger nails to remove nail polish. After which they disinfect their kitchen and bathroom with DOW chemicals in aerosoled form.

178 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:40:53pm

I have noticed a few hangups while in this thread. Has anyone else had any problems?

179 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:41:21pm

“Say no to corporations and capitalism!”
— Tweeted from iPhone.

180 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:42:04pm

re: #165 Amory Blaine

Although to be fair that article was from Candidate Paul in 2010. I doubt he has changed his stance however.

Even so, while he was saying that shit I was using the ADA to keep from getting fired and instead taking the leave I needed to get my narcolepsy under control. I am grateful for George Bush the Elder for signing the ADA and for George the Younger working to get it renewed. Rand Paul, by contrast, can go fuck himself.

181 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:42:51pm

re: #179 Gus

“Say no to corporations and capitalism!”
— Tweeted from iPhone.

Join my Facebook online privacy group!

//

182 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:43:27pm
183 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:43:48pm

re: #181 b.d.

Join my Facebook online privacy group!

//

I’m going to use Twitter and Facebook to complain about teh gubmint invading mah privacee!

///

184 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:44:13pm

re: #169 dog philosopher

Right. But the question is why was I against invading Iraq because Saddam had gassed his own people. The gassing took place 15 years prior to the invasion making the question leading and suspect. Furthermore Hand Blix turned up nada.

185 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:45:17pm

re: #181 b.d.

Join my Facebook online privacy group!

//

Complaining about privacy on Facebook is like complaining about peeping toms at a public nude beach.

186 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:46:14pm

re: #185 Kragar

I only complain at the private nude beaches.

187 Bubblehead II  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:49:23pm

re: #153 Bubblehead II

I don’t think so. Is your kevlar stronger than mine?

BTW. Evening Lizards..

And A good night, Previous post meant to be drive by. Should have made that clear……………. Iron Fist Rule…………………

To drunk to post?

Then don’t.

Night Lizards

Slep well.

188 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:49:39pm

re: #181 b.d.

Join my Facebook online privacy group!

//

You really should tweet that.

189 Lidane  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:51:50pm

More shit being thrown at the TV by Giants fans. In the first six minutes, there have been two interceptions AND a fumble from New York.

Of course that doesn’t guarantee a Dallas win, but it makes for a crazy game.

190 b.d.  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:53:43pm

re: #189 Lidane

More shit being thrown at the TV by Giants fans. In the first six minutes, there have been two interceptions AND a fumble from New York.

Of course that doesn’t guarantee a Dallas win, but it makes for a crazy game.

Ready for the calls to bench Manning and hire Tebow!!
//

191 Kragar  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 5:55:19pm


No, This Air Force Sergeant Was Not Fired For Opposing Marriage Equality

Monk supervised a staff sergeant who was openly opposing homosexuality on religious grounds to trainees, violating policy that prohibits officers from using a position of authority to promote personal religious beliefs. He informed his commanding officer, and when she insisted that the sergeant be punished, Monk resisted because he shared the same beliefs and didn’t believe them to be discriminatory. In fact, he asserted that the sergeant did nothing wrong and it should just be a “learning experience.”

In other words, the case is not about his beliefs about marriage or homosexuality, but about his willingness to follow his commander’s instructions and enforce military policy. It doesn’t matter that Monk’s commanding officer was a lesbian or that her opinion on marriage equality differs from his. Furthermore, he wasn’t “fired,” he was simply reassigned, and he even admits that he was due for a reassignment and that his new position is commensurate with his rank and experience. What he is worried about is whether he’ll receive a Meritorious Service Medal he’d been recommended for — before he apparently refused to follow his commander’s orders.

192 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:01:36pm
193 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:01:48pm

Hey, wait a minute. Should Tim Tebow be like the greatest QB ever because, you know…

194 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:02:08pm

re: #147 Amory Blaine

Rand Paul Wants To Abolish The Americans With Disabilities Act, Citing Fairness ‘To The Business Owner’

As a man with a wife in a wheelchair and thus painfully aware of how difficult it is for the disabled to make use of most businesses I say that you, Sen. Paul, are a festering sebaceous cyst of a human being.

195 Gus  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:06:25pm

Sure enough. I remember this BS from before 9/11. It’s coming back as AFPAK winds down…

Wanted in U.S. and India, Islamist leads mass rally in Pakistan

(Reuters) - A Pakistani Islamist with a $10 million U.S. bounty on his head appeared openly at a rally in Islamabad on Friday, denouncing India as a terrorist state as thousands of his supporters chanted for “holy war” against the rival nuclear nation.

India has accused Hafiz Saeed of masterminding the 2008 attack on its financial capital Mumbai where gunmen killed 166 people over three days. The United States has offered $10 million for information leading to his arrest and conviction.

As dusk fell, more than 10,000 people gathered in Islamabad in a show of defiance certain to enrage India further following weeks of tensions over the disputed Kashmir border….

196 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:29:06pm

Blind people with guns don’t scare me nearly as much as sighted people with guns. I got no problem with this.

Is there any way we could require people carrying guns in public to wear blinders?

197 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:34:00pm

re: #196 Laertes

Don’t you have a bridge you should be lurking under?

198 Laertes  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:40:14pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

When’s the last time you heard of a blind shooter opening fire in a school or a movie theater?

Which homicidal nut are you more frightened of? The one who can see you or the one who can’t?

If George Zimmerman were blind, would Trayvon Martin be attending school tomorrow?

I say it again: Blind shooters don’t scare me. The sighted ones are the dangerous ones.

199 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:42:16pm

Way to totally miss the point.

200 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:43:12pm

An object lesson in how the kooky libertarian right coopts the kooky libertarian left.

201 Pavlovian Hive Mind  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 6:49:45pm

re: #198 Laertes

You sir are a fool.

202 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 7:31:43pm

re: #37 Eclectic Cyborg

Christians launch their own scouting group because Boy Scouts now allow gays

A masculine outdoor program huh? That’s a new one on me.

As an Eagle Scout myself, fuck this douche.

203 chadu  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 7:34:50pm

re: #41 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m sorry but I really need to ask this question: What the hell is it with America and guns? I just don’t get it.

I mean I don’t dislike guns. I actually enjoy target shooting when I find the time. I’m talking more about gun culture.

Owning a gun makes your penis bigger. (And, if a woman, your clitoris.)

If you can get a concealed-carry license, it doubles your points.

/spit

204 Quicklund  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 7:54:08pm

Blind people should be allowed to carry guns but only automatic weapons with 50+ round magazines. After all they can’t aim well so they should be able to hose down the entire area with hot lead. It’s only fair.

205 jonhendry  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 8:56:40pm

NRA Handgun Safety rules:

ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances

When using or storing a gun, always follow these NRA rules:

Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

How exactly is a blind person supposed to adequately follow either of these rules?

Admittedly, it’s possible to have vision poor enough to be legally blind, while still being able to see well enough to ride a bike or use a computer, and not have to use a cane to get around. A friend of mine is like that - she’s even features editor of a scientific journal (lots of reading), and she could probably use a gun fairly safely, within limits. So there’s probably justification for a vision test requirement, rather than an outright ban on blind people.

206 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Sep 8, 2013 9:50:17pm

re: #37 Eclectic Cyborg

I thought there already was such a thing, called the Royal Rangers, unless that is strictly an Assembly of God organization. Can’t have different Christians mix in the same group — they might get ideas …

207 Good Morning  Mon, Sep 9, 2013 5:03:45am

New technology makes seeing less important.

A New ‘Smart Rifle’ Decides When To Shoot And Rarely Misses
npr.org

Feel better now.

208 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 9, 2013 6:07:09am

re: #207 Good Morning

New technology makes seeing less important.

A New ‘Smart Rifle’ Decides When To Shoot And Rarely Misses
npr.org

Feel better now.

Old 12 gauge semi-auto with 20 round magazine of 9-ball buck rarely misses. Go big or stay home.

Image: saiga_12ga_level2_20rd_drum_left.jpg

209 Good Morning  Mon, Sep 9, 2013 9:48:35am

Oh Oh this jumps out of today’s headlines:

107-YEAR-OLD MAN DIES IN SHOOTOUT WITH SWAT TEAM (UPDATE: HE WAS REPORTEDLY LEGALLY BLIND AND NEARLY DEAF)

theblaze.com

Picture of Mr Monroe on his 104th birthday indicates he was black. I would think that at 107 he might have been America’s oldest male African American or even oldest male.

210 Pygmalion  Mon, Sep 9, 2013 10:09:58am

These wingnuts won’t stop at anything!


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