No video joy—“try again later”

re: #1 Decatur Deb

No video joy—“try again later”

Working now.

That’s a lonely walk.

re: #1 Decatur Deb

No video joy—“try again later”

Reload the page - had a little problem, now fixed.

10 bucks says he wears a Che t shirt.

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Reload the page - had a little problem, now fixed.

Spasibo, tovarisch.

MSNBC haz a huge sad because there is no pre-release of his remarks.

20 bucks says at least one of the after speech phone calls on cspan will involve Howard Stern’s penis

Here it comes.

They should dial back the red and gold decoration in that hallway. Looks too royal. Take all the stuff out.

This speech is not winning me over.

re: #9 Killgore Trout

They should dial back the red and gold decoration in that hallway. Looks too royal. Take all the stuff out.

he should have worn a red tie, would have worked better with the decorations in the hallway

He probably should have mentioned the German signals intel, french report, and independent verification of sarin use by UK labs.

he needs to get angry and pound the podium a bit

re: #13 dog philosopher

he needs an “American President” speech

re: #11 bmiller11757

he should have worn a red tie, would have worked better with the decorations in the hallway

The blue and white checks looks funky on low res internet feed

Listening for big “however”.

Obama: “I know that after the terrible toll of Iraq & Afghanistan, the idea of any military intervention is not going to be popular.”

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) September 11, 2013

re: #17 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

no shit, really?

He still talks like he wants to blow some shit up.

“I will shit and split.”

Personally, I like that he is focusing on the chemical weapons.
Because that’s the problem.

“Let me make something clear: the United States military does not do pin-pricks.”

re: #16 Decatur Deb

Listening for big “however”.

I think the whole speech is a big “however”.

re: #21 Backwoods_Sleuth

Personally, I like that he is focusing on the chemical weapons.
Because that’s the problem.

It’s certainly the only way to define the problem such that meaningful international action becomes possible.

“However’!
/there it is!

wearing a crystal crown with lit candles on it is a nice touch

re: #25 Killgore Trout

there will be a however to the however.

he suffers from the fatal delusion of all liberals that people can be convinced by logical arguments

Plz give play by plays I’m on Verizon Wireless tonight I have to sip data.

Obama asked congress to postpone vote. Boom. Whip counts mean nothing now.

i don’t recall reagan doing any ‘however’s and ‘therefore’s

He still hasn’t changed my mind and I am hoping my congress critters in NY still vote no on any bill that allows a military strike.

Timeline takes us beyond fiscal year and debt-ceiling.

“Meanwhile I’ve ordered our military to maintain their current posture.”

Alan Grayson “Still not my problem”

@goldietaylor Wait five minutes…frame they will. He's scared! He blinked! He's in Putin's pocket! (and that's just on @MSNBC)

— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) September 11, 2013

that’s a little anger

oooo he played the children card

re: #28 dog philosopher

And apparently bad tie and decor choices…sigh. Because really, that’s what’s important right now.

J.H. Christ, Esq.

re: #34 Charles Johnson

“Meanwhile I’ve ordered our military to maintain their current posture.”

i knew there had to be some reason i got marked down on posture in kindergarden

re: #29 Amory Blaine

Plz give play by plays I’m on Verizon Wireless tonight I have to sip data.

Duh. I watch so little tv I forgot there was a tv here I could’ve watched.

re: #39 A Mom Anon

And apparently bad tie and decor choices…sigh. Because really, that’s what’s important right now.

J.H. Christ, Esq.

They’re just concerned that someone might not focus on the message.

///

Wolf Blitzer is taking credit for the President looking directly into the camera…”I told him to do that”/

re: #39 A Mom Anon

And apparently bad tie and decor choices…sigh. Because really, that’s what’s important right now.

J.H. Christ, Esq.

Apparently Fashion Week isn’t isolated to just NYC…

“Catastrophic calamity, no creditbility, outmaneuvered by Assad” abc news first wods.

IMHO it was a weak speech. More emotion was needed. Too much BS.

so, the vote will be put off indefinitely and the whole thing will peter out in a diplomatic kabuki show

in two weeks everybody will have forgotten it - until the next atrocity…

OK, I have to break down and turn on TV and see what the cable networks have to say. I’ll hate myself in the morning.

re: #31 dog philosopher

i don’t recall reagan doing any ‘however’s and ‘therefore’s

Who cares about Reagan, the father of the GOV is the problem BS and the father of the decline of the unions, he was the start of the 1% vs the 99% problem we have now. jmo

Nothing new tonight - except that it doesn't sound like Obama's very confident about the Russia-Syria deal.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) September 11, 2013

More cowbell would’ve been nice.

This speech isn’t for us. It’s for Assad. The Administration’s sense of timing is bordering on the ridiculous at this point. One more firm shake of the stick, the day before Kerry goes to dangle the carrot. I love this President.

Busy getting mah soccer fangirl on and watching the US vs. Mexico match.

What is the Cliff’s Notes version of the speech? Is the vote postponed until later?

re: #48 Single-handed sailor

OK, I have to break down and turn on TV and see what the cable networks have to say. I’ll hate myself in the morning.

Why bother? You can just read some of the responses here and paraphrase.

re: #38 bmiller11757

oooo he played the children card

There were a lot of dead children. For real. This isn’t just rhetoric.

re: #53 Lidane

Busy getting mah soccer fangirl on and watching the US vs. Mexico match.

What is the Cliff’s Notes version of the speech? Is the vote postponed until later?

Vote postponed.

re: #24 EPR-radar

It’s certainly the only way to define the problem such that meaningful international action becomes possible.

International: American pilot with French fries in his flightsuit pocket.

I do enjoy watching people who normally say absolutely nothing at all come out of the woodwork to criticize any and all decisions the President could possibly make on Syria.

(With possibly some OWS thrown in for good measure.)

/why yes, my snark meter is up tonight, why do you ask?

re: #55 Charles Johnson

There were a lot of dead children. For real. This isn’t just rhetoric.

That’s why we bombed Rwanda.

re: #38 bmiller11757

oooo he played the children card

Those children were gassed like insects by the Syrian military. I’m not in favor of intervention but only a monster would react glibly to that fact.

re: #50 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And the rumor on the media (which I didn’t link) was that he was going to say he “didn’t trust” the Russians (according to the vague admin source).

Christ, I’m so sick of the second guessers.

Ronald Reagan, post-Beirut bombing:

Let us meet our responsibilities. For people of the Middle East have lived from war to war with no prospect for any other future. That dreadful cycle must be broken. Why are we there? Well, a Lebanese mother told one of our Ambassadors that her little girl had only attended school 2 of the last 8 years. Now, because of our presence there, she said her daughter could live a normal life.

With patience and firmness, we can help bring peace to that strife-torn region - and make our own lives more secure. Our role is to help the Lebanese put their country together, not to do it for them.
beirut-memorial.org

re: #46 bmiller11757

IMHO it was a weak speech. More emotion was needed. Too much BS.

I liked it just fine. This isn’t something that called for the Gettysburg address v2.0.

Instead, a simple and calm explanation of why Obama thinks it is important to actually do something about the use of chemical weapons was provided.

re: #32 bmiller11757

He still hasn’t changed my mind and I am hoping my congress critters in NY still vote no on any bill that allows a military strike.

He is in a tough spot, lots of nuance but there’s a bit of a conundrum here. He does speak of a great moral responsibility to act, he still maintains he has the authority to act, but he might not use that authority without congressional, un, or international blessings. Ironically, if he really believed in the moral imperative of military action then he would use that authority instead of seeking approval elsewhere. He kind of nuanced himself into a corner. One of the few things that might sway me on the use of military force is the use of military force. As long as the president has doubts, I do too.

re: #43 Petero1818

Wolf Blitzer is taking credit for the President looking directly into the camera…”I told him to do that”/

He should have told him to stop thumping on the podium. The mic picks that shit up.

re: #47 dog philosopher

so, the vote will be put off indefinitely and the whole thing will peter out in a diplomatic kabuki show

in two weeks everybody will have forgotten it - until the next atrocity…

I don’t think Obama is going to let this go. If diplomacy fails, steps will be taken.

re: #38 bmiller11757

oooo he played the children card

Are you short on empathy, or ethics?

re: #47 dog philosopher

so, the vote will be put off indefinitely and the whole thing will peter out in a diplomatic kabuki show

in two weeks everybody will have forgotten it - until the next atrocity…

Is there a new season of Honey Boo Boo. Wait a minute….Walking Dead should start again soon. Hmmm….what were we talking about?

The GOP clown show in Egypt doesn’t help. A disloyal opposition at home hell bent for any political advantage doesn’t help either.

It’s kind of funny. Here’s Obama emulating TR, using the bully pulpit like a goddamned genius. He gives every domestic critic what they want, acquiesces to calls that he seek congressional authorization, manages to stare down Putin and Assad, they blink, and the fuckwits all think they outmaneuvered him.

Amazing.

If Bush had managed a crisis like this everyone would be calling him some kind of wizard.

El Matador Beach Road, Malibu, California, USA #EarthPics pic.twitter.com/uir13PB6hB

— Google Earth Pics (@GoogleEarthPics) September 11, 2013

re: #64 Killgore Trout

He is in a tough spot, lots of nuance but there’s a bit of a conundrum here. He does speak of a great moral responsibility to act, he still maintains he has the authority to act, but he might not use that authority without congressional, un, or international blessings. Ironically, if he really believed in the moral imperative of military action then he would use that authority instead of seeking approval elsewhere. He kind of nuanced himself into a corner. One of the few things that might sway me on the use of military force is the use of military force. As long as the president has doubts, I do too.

He will use it, if you paid attention. He’s simply trying to get others to take some responsibility to stop the horror he outlined.

What Assad did was an outrage that should reverberate across the world. People complain, but do little.

re: #58 klys

I do enjoy watching people who normally say absolutely nothing at all come out of the woodwork to criticize any and all decisions the President could possibly make on Syria.

(With possibly some OWS thrown in for good measure.)

/why yes, my snark meter is up tonight, why do you ask?

The reminants of OWS are outside waving Assad posters or on twitter raising funds for Barrett Brown. What do you want from me?

re: #64 Killgore Trout

He is in a tough spot, lots of nuance but there’s a bit of a conundrum here. He does speak of a great moral responsibility to act, he still maintains he has the authority to act, but he might not use that authority without congressional, un, or international blessings. Ironically, if he really believed in the moral imperative of military action then he would use that authority instead of seeking approval elsewhere. He kind of nuanced himself into a corner. One of the few things that might sway me on the use of military force is the use of military force. As long as the president has doubts, I do too.

I don’t get that last part. Are you saying that the use of military force is retroactively justified by the fact that military force was used?

re: #66 EPR-radar

I don’t think Obama is going to let this go. If diplomacy fails, steps will be taken.

actually, it occurs to me that the un is supposed to be delivering its assessment of the attack in a few weeks. it’s beginning to sound like putin will accept that the syrian government was responsible if the un report says that’s true

in that case there could conceivably be a un vote to take some kind of action, and then obama could act, or at least have a much bigger stick to wield with congress & the american people

so what will the un do when the report is delivered? that’s the question.

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

They’ll want Putins face carved into Rushmore so future generations can gaze into his eyes.

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It’s kind of funny. Here’s Obama emulating TR, using the bully pulpit like a goddamned genius. He gives every domestic critic what they want, acquiesces to calls that he seek congressional authorization, manages to stare down Putin and Assad, they blink, and the fuckwits all think they outmaneuvered him.

Amazing.

If Bush had managed a crisis like this everyone would be calling him some kind of wizard.

I certainly can see Obama as executing on a “speak softly and carry a big stick” strategy.

re: #67 b_sharp

Are you short on empathy, or ethics?

Yes.

Thank FSM the moldable marionette Romney isn’t there.

re: #67 b_sharp

Are you short on empathy, or ethics?

so it’s only OK to mention the children when they are gassed, but ignore them when thousands have been killed over the last two years? It was not necessary in the speech, IMHO

re: #73 Killgore Trout

And the fucks we should give are how many? No. One. Cares. What these idiots do. They have no power or influence over a damned thing.

re: #77 EPR-radar

I certainly can see Obama as executing on a “speak softly and carry a big stick” strategy.

But he just said that he’ll do no more than a couple quick whacks with the stick. No Libya, no troops.

re: #76 Amory Blaine

They’ll want Putins face carved into Rushmore so future generations can gaze into his eyes.

It still hacks me off that Obama gets no credit from RW nut jobs for getting bin Laden.

Had that happened under GW Bush, they would have wanted to repeal the 22nd amendment and add Dubya to Mt. Rushmore.

Isn’t there a rebuttal by aquabudda? Anyone following?

Rand Paul on Fox: “I don't want Israel to be bombed by sarin gas.” A position shared by AIPAC. #commonground

— Jeffrey Goldberg (@JeffreyGoldberg) September 11, 2013

re: #80 bmiller11757

Answer the question.

re: #84 Amory Blaine

Isn’t there a rebuttal by aquabudda? Anyone following?

His full rebuttal “Obama is wrong, thank you God bless America.” ///// that’s the rights rebuttal for everything Obama says or does..

re: #85 bratwurst

[Embedded content]

Duh. But it’s OK for Syria?

He’s not even an idiot savant. Just an idiot.

“I don’t want Israel to be bombed by sarin gas”. A position held by everyone in America. What a fucking risk taking leader. A wordsmith!!!

re: #73 Killgore Trout

The reminants of OWS are outside waving Assad posters or on twitter raising funds for Barrett Brown. What do you want from me?

Answered in all sincerity: actual engagement and discussion on a range of issues and not just snarky commentary (rarely discussion) on the core issues that seem to bring you to LGF to post links. Explanations for why you feel the way you do and willingness to hear another viewpoint.

Look, I don’t agree with everyone here by far and I frequently don’t have witty things to say (snark may be another matter), but I do try to add something to the discussion now and again. I also try to spell out why I feel the way I do, within the bounds that I am capable of without getting myself thrown off the site.

You might consider this response shit, and that’s your right. But there’s my two cents, shit or not.

I fully admit that I just do not care what Rand Paul has to say.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) September 11, 2013

re: #64 Killgore Trout

One of the few things that might sway me on the use of military force is the use of military force. As long as the president has doubts, I do too.

You’re basically saying that force is self justifying, which is weird, because it isn’t. I know you can think for yourself, so why aren’t you?

re: #82 Decatur Deb

But he just said that he’ll do no more than a couple quick whacks with the stick. No Libya, no troops.

“The US military doesn’t do pin pricks”. That’s a decent enough stick, IMO. It’s telling Assad he really won’t like what will happen if US strikes are ordered.

It is a pity that this conflicts so badly with Kerry’s “unbelievably small” nonsense. That was something that should not have been said.

re: #84 Amory Blaine

Isn’t there a rebuttal by aquabudda? Anyone following?

more like a selection of moronic and meaningless things to say if you want to dump on the president’s speech

wingnuts have been taught that repeating one-liners is the same thing as thinking

Rand Paul on Fox: “I don’t want Israel to be bombed by sarin gas.” A position shared by AIPAC. #commonground

“But you’re down with VX, right?”

/Assad

re: #85 bratwurst

Rand Paul on Fox: “I don't want Israel to be bombed by sarin gas.” A position shared by AIPAC. #commonground

— Jeffrey Goldberg (@JeffreyGoldberg) September 11, 2013

I don’t want anyone in any country to be bombed by sarin gas.

re: #86 Internet Tough Guy

Answer the question.

not short on either one. IMHO it was not necessary in the speech.

Tugging at peoples empathy for children is a small pushback to the droves of fucking derp being served out there.

re: #97 bmiller11757

not short on either one. IMHO it was not necessary in the speech.

“Children are too low a blow, a step too far, too sacred to mention when someone just gassed a bunch of them” is the position I’m getting from you, and I admit it’s one I don’t quite understand.

Reince Priebus: Obama Has ‘Embarrassed America On The World Stage’

“The administration’s handling of the U.S. response to Syria has been so haphazard it’s disappointed even the president’s most ardent supporters,” he said in a statement. “This rudderless diplomacy has embarrassed America on the world stage. For a president who campaigned on building American credibility abroad, the lack of leadership coming from the Oval Office is astounding.”

re: #97 bmiller11757

not short on either one. IMHO it was not necessary in the speech.

It wasn’t three minutes into his speech that you didn’t get instant gratification to be won over.
Two minutes later you were annoyed about his tie.

sheesh…

re: #94 dog philosopher

more like a selection of moronic and meaningless things to say if you want to dump on the president’s speech

wingnuts have been taught that repeating one-liners is the same thing as thinking

Official wingnut response to Obama’s speech:

Obama is wrong. The decor in the room was off-putting. His tie clashed with the room colors. Obama is wrong. The first sentence of his speech was factually incorrect. All sentences of his speech were factually incorrect, and racist as well. Have I mentioned that Obama is wrong yet? He was wrong. We should blow Syria to smithereens because Obama doesn’t seem to want to do that. We should sell chemical weapons to all sides in the Syrian civil war because Obama favors non-proliferation.

re: #100 Kragar

“What does Reince think?” said No One, Ever.

re: #100 Kragar

Reince Priebus: Obama Has ‘Embarrassed America On The World Stage’

Reince Priebus is an American joke. the worst thing the RNC did is get rid of Michael Steele for Priebus

even the president’s most ardent supporters

Yeah, like Katrina vanden Heuvel and Alan Greyson. lulz

This happened. pic.twitter.com/cfdHcPa2jn

— Ben Domenech (@bdomenech) September 9, 2013

He knows who butters his bread.

re: #59 Decatur Deb

That’s why we bombed Rwanda.

Ignoring it is why it got so horrific.

so let me see if I understand this. The out cry was Obama should get Congressional approval before engaging in war. So Obama calls for Congressional vote and now Congresspeople upset because they don’t want to have to vote at all.

And Obama is supposed to be the weak one?

A song sung three times:

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

The last is the ‘original’ Italian anti-fascist partisan song. It is linked to a klezmer band from 1919.

re: #100 Kragar

Reince Priebus: Obama Has ‘Embarrassed America On The World Stage’

Attacking an opponent’s strength is common in the RW playbook.

Anyone care to guess how many times a McCain/Palin administration or a Romney/Ryan administration would have stepped on their dicks relating to Syria?

My count for Obama is one such blunder (“unbelievably small” military action).

@hardball_chris Why don't you take your own shoe off, and start banging it on your credibility?

— Andy Kindler (@AndyKindler) September 11, 2013

re: #80 bmiller11757

so it’s only OK to mention the children when they are gassed, but ignore them when thousands have been killed over the last two years? It was not necessary in the speech, IMHO

1. This critique would have more bite to it if Obama hadn’t gotten us out of Iraq and wasn’t on track in getting us out of Afghanistan. Yes, the number of children killed by helicopter strikes while gathering firewood is an abomination, all children killed are.

2. Insects. Gassing people is to equate them quite literally with insects. It dehumanizes humanity on a level that is atrocious to even contemplate.

re: #111 Gus

[Embedded content]

Where Russia would veto it.
What then, Chris?

Our grandkids will look back on this in 20 years (I hope) and say, WTF? Nobody cared about gas attacks? People just ignored them?

Or maybe they, too, will just go back to watching Dancing with the Wannabe Stars and not pay attention to what’s going on in the world around them.

I’m getting sick of it all, and so to bed.

Anyone care to guess how many times a McCain/Palin administration or a Romney/Ryan administration would have stepped on their dicks relating to Syria?

Yeah, I would bet that the entire region would be on fire right now.

Not that there would be much time to collect after sarin-tipped Scuds fell on Tel Aviv, but whatever.

re: #109 Decatur Deb

Feels like a polka trap….

Let’s also not forget that we couldn’t get the UN to even investigate who launched the attacks.

re: #107 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Ignoring it is why it got so horrific.

So you really do think we are the world’s cop and conscience.

re: #80 bmiller11757

so it’s only OK to mention the children when they are gassed, but ignore them when thousands have been killed over the last two years? It was not necessary in the speech, IMHO

You do realize that the United States has been trying to get the UN to act on this for years now, right?

re: #106 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

He knows who butters his bread.

That has nothing to do with buttering. Chris Christie is a big Cowboys fan and he had publicly announced he’d be at the game.

No scandal here.

re: #38 bmiller11757

oooo he played the children card

FUCK you!

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

I was talking about Prince Reibus Octavian Alarius. Royal pageboy of the moneyed class.

re: #110 EPR-radar

Attacking an opponent’s strength is common in the RW playbook.

Anyone care to guess how many times a McCain/Palin administration or a Romney/Ryan administration would have stepped on their dicks relating to Syria?

My count for Obama is one such blunder (“unbelievably small” military action).

McCain would’ve pounded Assad into the ground, without hesitation.

Not sure if that’s a good thing.

re: #92 goddamnedfrank

You’re basically saying that force is self justifying, which is weird, because it isn’t. I know you can think for yourself, so why aren’t you?

2 monks are looking into a pond. Monk 1 says. “Those fish look happy”. Monk 2 says, “you aren’t a fish, how can you know if they’re happy”. Monk 1 says, “You aren’t me, how can you know what I know?”.

If Obama felt confident that his desired course of action would work and would be the best moral choice I would hope he would act. I don’t know what he does. I would hope that he takes the moral imperative he’s asking of others.

re: #122 Amory Blaine

I was talking about Prince Reibus Octavian Alarius. Royal pageboy of the moneyed class.

I didn’t even know he was in that picture.

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

McCain would’ve pounded Assad into the ground, without hesitation.

Not sure if that’s a good thing.

That would be classified as McCain stepping on his own dick.

re: #118 Decatur Deb

So you really do think we are the world’s cop and conscience.

Man, you sound like an isolationist.
That did us real good in the past.

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

McCain would’ve pounded Assad into the ground, without hesitation.

Not sure if that’s a good thing.

McCain would’ve also been forced to have Palin out there making his case for war since she would’ve been VP.

That’s scarier than any bombs dropping or any sarin attack.

re: #127 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Man, you sound like an isolationist.
That did us real good in the past.

I’ve seen times it would have been damn handy.

re: #127 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Man, you sound like an isolationist.
That did us real good in the past.

And being the worlds cop has put us deep in debt and kept us from using that money in our own country.

re: #124 Killgore Trout

2 monks are looking into a pond. Monk 1 says. “Those fish look happy”. Monk 2 says, “you aren’t a fish, how can you know if they’re happy”. Monk 1 says, “You aren’t me, how can you know what I know?”.

If Obama felt confident that his desired course of action would work and would be the best moral choice I would hope he would act. I don’t know what he does. I would hope that he takes the moral imperative he’s asking of others.

For my part, I’ll take thoughtful deliberate planning and action, including revisions as needed, over “going with the gut” any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I’ve seen too many fools be the most self-confident person in the room to put any stock in someone else’s projected level of certainly in their course of action.

By that standard, a loon like Bryan Fischer would be presidential material.

i think overall, mission accomplished, obama focused the attention of the entire world on the syrian regime and scared them and their buddies half to death by threatening to bring down the full power of the american armed forces on their heads. now assad will be very careful how he treads going forward, and i’m confident there will be no more gas attacks

and for this successful exercise of realpolitik obama gets dissed by everybody from all sides

typical

The main new thing we learned tonight is that Obama is highly skeptical the Russia-Syria deal is going to work.

If he’s keeping the military on ready, that’s not a casual thing. It’s serious.

Geez, Andrew Sullivan give me whiplash!

That was one of the clearest, simplest and most moving presidential speeches to the nation I can imagine: http://t.co/1dH3K5rU7D

— Andrew Sullivan (@sullydish) September 11, 2013

It must be an excrutiating experiance to be such a low belly slung cynic that you don’t care about gassing to death suburban neighborhoods of men, women and children. Families.
I don’t understand by what measure bmiller can decide his is more valuable than another’s.

re: #126 Tigger2

That would be classified as McCain stepping on his own dick.

I’m sure McCain believes his own dick is that big…I suspect it isn’t…

re: #38 bmiller11757

oooo he played the children card

It’s one thing to invoke the well-being of children when you are, say, asking for money to build a new highway overpass; quite something else to invoke it when children have been gassed to death by an internationally recognized sovereign government. The first is absurdly overblown rhetoric, the second is a cruel and overwhelming fact that assaults the conscience of the world.

re: #96 CuriousLurker

I don’t want anyone in any country to be bombed by sarin gas.

The whole reason chemical (and biological, radiological, and nuclear) weapons are such a huge taboo (moral questions completely ignored for a moment) is because they have an escalation path that trends towards the extermination of humans as a species. It’s a bit of an exaggeration, but in the hypothetical event Assad decides it’s completely legitimate and acceptable for him to use chemical weapons in his civil war, and if that new norm of warfare happens to spill over into, say, Jordan, then Jordan might feel a bit less hesitant to retaliate with biological weapons. And if any of that happens to drift into Israel, then it has the potential for nukes to become involved.

re: #137 Shiplord Kirel

I think cruelty is second nature to miller.

re: #134 psddluva4evah

I don’t pay much attention to Sullivan. Was he pissing and moaning about Syria in stupid ways prior to this speech by Obama?

Assuming our president sends our forces against Syria, it is axiomatic that there must be a desirable end-state. If we do that, what is the outcome in Syria and its neighbors in 10 years, or even 5?

If your best answer is “Nobody knows, it’s too complex”, you have no right to vote other people’s sons and daughters into another of Rumsfeld’s “Unknown Unknowns”.

Speaking of cynical, Mitch McConnell is ready to raise money off of Syria:

McConnell campaign just sent email about Syria, ended with a fundraising ask. pic.twitter.com/J8BGquYfgZ

— Adam Smith (@asmith83) September 11, 2013

re: #136 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m sure McCain believes his own dick is that big…I suspect it isn’t…

I think just about every fighter pilot, current or former, thinks his dick is that big.

re: #139 prairiefire

I think cruelty is second nature to miller.

Perhaps he/she has not seen enough of it.

re: #133 Charles Johnson

This is one takeaway and an important one for a few reasons. 1) diplomacy will not succeed without a credible threat of force as its alternative 2) Assad has never cooperated in this respect before 3) It may be a very difficult deal to achieve and implement and we will back to square one.

One thing was clear: Obama is highly skeptical the Russia-Syria deal is going to work. The US military isn't standing down.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) September 11, 2013

re: #142 bratwurst

Speaking of cynical, Mitch McConnell is ready to raise money off of Syria:

[Embedded content]

To be fair though, the email is saying “Give to Mitch McConnell because he’s strong on this issue” instead the wingnut version, which is “Give to the Tea Party because OBAMA IS A MUSLIM TRAITOR!!!11”.

re: #80 bmiller11757

so it’s only OK to mention the children when they are gassed, but ignore them when thousands have been killed over the last two years? It was not necessary in the speech, IMHO

Let’s see, you’ve been an LGF member for 2 years + 4 months and you have a total of 34 comments. Of the 11 most recent ones, not a single one expresses any concern about the thousands killed over the last two years—perhaps we missed those comments among the other 23 and you can point them out to us? //

Once called “some kinda damn genius”
Now just some kinda damn asshole.

Help Obama Kickstart World War 3! http://t.co/R13Qg34hvs

— David Burge (@iowahawkblog) September 10, 2013

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

McCain would’ve pounded Assad into the ground, without hesitation.

Not sure if that’s a good thing.

McCain would still have us balls deep in Iraq.

re: #144 Shiplord Kirel

Perhaps he/she has not seen enough of it.

Most likely too much.

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

To be fair though, the email is saying “Give to Mitch McConnell because he’s strong on this issue” instead the wingnut version, which is “Give to the Tea Party because OBAMA IS A MUSLIM TRAITOR!!!11”.

I have to confess, the idea that Mitch McConnell has any opinion on Syria other than “any action taken by Obama is wrong” is literally unthinkable for me.

re: #130 Tigger2

And being the world cop has put us deep in debt and kept us from using that money in our own country.

Except that money would be presented to the rich on a red velvet pillow by their lackies in Congress. Bet on it.

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

To be fair though, the email is saying “Give to Mitch McConnell because he’s strong on this issue” instead the wingnut version, which is “Give to the Tea Party because OBAMA IS A MUSLIM TRAITOR!!!11”.

Ok, I concede…McConnell cleared a bar that was sitting in the gutter.

re: #129 Decatur Deb

I’ve seen times it would have been damn handy.

And many times were it was disastrous.

It’s like a merry-go-round!

re: #149 Vicious Babushka

Politics is complicated. Some people need to stay in their “live-tweeting True Blood” lanes.

— Ian (@iboudreau) September 11, 2013

re: #77 EPR-radar

I certainly can see Obama as executing on a “speak softly and carry a big stick” strategy.

Worked on OBL…

re: #146 Charles Johnson

That’s why it is speak softly AND carry a big stick.

IF this ends w/ diplomatic solution, Obama achieves his goal peacefully while GOP has to deal w/ completely diluting its hawkish brand.

— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) September 11, 2013

re: #154 bratwurst

Ok, I concede…McConnell cleared a bar that was sitting in the gutter.

Give him time.

Obama Delivers Hollow, Strange, Meandering Syria Speech - Fox Nation http://t.co/E111moMfky

— Fox Nation (@foxnation) September 11, 2013

I guess they missed the ‘US military isn’t standing down’ part.

re: #133 Charles Johnson

The main new thing we learned tonight is that Obama is highly skeptical the Russia-Syria deal is going to work.

If he’s keeping the military on ready, that’s not a casual thing. It’s serious.

…and the smallest chance of Syria giving up their WMD exists only as long as the military is in that posture and maintaining the threat. If the chance does exist it evaporates at the first sign of pull back.

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It’s kind of funny. Here’s Obama emulating TR, using the bully pulpit like a goddamned genius. He gives every domestic critic what they want, acquiesces to calls that he seek congressional authorization, manages to stare down Putin and Assad, they blink, and the fuckwits all think they outmaneuvered him.

Amazing.

If Bush had managed a crisis like this everyone would be calling him some kind of wizard.

it reminds me of how eisenhower used to act like he was practically senile in order to not answer questions that he wanted to avoid

it wasn’t until 40 years later that people learned he was very much on the ball and the vagueness was just an act

re: #161 jaunte

Of course Obama’s speech was incomprehensible to the bobbleheads of Fox News.

He used logic and reason and made reference to reality, none of which can even be recognized by today’s wingnuts.

Putin could be getting pressure by the church in Moscow.

So it’s 2 month to november. Any NYC think this will be a hard fight for De Blasio or is he basically in like Flint?

Exit polls say de Blasio won all boroughs, ages, income groups, blacks, whites, hispanics, Jews, catholics, Prots… http://t.co/Ma2HIWBrVV

— Josh Barro (@jbarro) September 11, 2013

re: #155 Pavlovian Hive Mind

And many times were it was disastrous.

It’s like a merry-go-round!

Make a list of the years of successful interventions, and their human cost, since Korea. I’ll do the disastrous ones. Then we can compare.

DERP

Obama says people on the right love war, people on the left love freedom. Um, dude, you want to bomb #Syria, and #Obamacare.

— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) September 11, 2013

re: #164 EPR-radar

President Santorum wouldn’t have done it this way.

re: #161 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I guess they missed the ‘US military isn’t standing down’ part.

So does that link to Weasel Zippers?

Transcript
npr.org

Saw a photo of Miley Cyrus with her tongue sticking out. Wow! She should do another one of those!

— Steve Martin (@SteveMartinToGo) September 11, 2013

Beating my head against a wall of dudebro-ness:

So, I’m supposed to be worried about the rebels having or seizing chemical weapons because of Al Qaeda, but apparently not supposed to be worried about Syria being kissy-kissy with Hezbollah for decades.

I’m supposed to doubt American international interventionism because of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I’m not supposed to worry about Russia’s motives and past actions in spite of Chechnya (and, you know, all that internal shit). Sort of like how Obama is suspect because of what Bush did in the 00s, while Putin isn’t suspect for what Putin did in the 00s.

Wingnut, moonbat, and dudebro all stem from the same shit:

(1) being simultaneously low-information and immensely confident
(2) indulging a subaltern version of Appeal To Authority, where the “Little Guy” is always the King David of veracity, and “The Government/The Press/etc” are a whole field of Goliaths of Gath.
(3) Lysenkoism (and occasionally Stankhanovism)

Strange, Meandering

it’s the complete sentences. get’s em every time

re: #170 Gus

No, just the usual gang of idiots.

FoxNews:

President Obama, in an address to the nation on Syria, said Tuesday that while he had resisted calls for military action in the country’s civil war, the situation “profoundly changed” after the Assad regime “gassed to death” hundreds of people last month.

Scarequotes.

re: #166 psddluva4evah

I saw all the nationality and religious references thought it was from the CTO. Whew.

re: #154 bratwurst

Ok, I concede…McConnell cleared a bar that was sitting in the gutter.

I’m just saying that the email is within bounds. That shouldn’t be read as “McConnell’s right!”, but I just think it best not to go after someone for normal fundraising messages.

After all, an experienced senator who understands the issues is more qualified than some wingnut challenger who qualifications consist of being willing to call President Obama the N-word.

re: #166 psddluva4evah

So it’s 2 month to november. Any NYC think this will be a hard fight for De Blasio or is he basically in like Flint?

[Embedded content]

It’ll be a hard fight to win 65-35… if he’s happy with 60%, then no worries.

re: #173 The Ghost of a Flea

Real consequences of the special snowflake initiative.

re: #175 jaunte

Has Fox News gone so low as to try “President” Obama yet? If not, I can’t imagine that this omission will stand.

re: #178 sagehen

It’ll be a hard fight to win 65-35… if he’s happy with 60%, then no worries.

Following the Obama Rule, anything less than 70%, and he has no mandate to govern.
//

en.wikipedia.org
How many of those did the world ignore?
Yeah, most.
Not our problem, eh?

Was watching Pentecostal snake handlers on Nat Geographic channel.

It seems that some poisonous caught-in-the-wild snakes don’t live more than a month in Christian captivity (must be the stress).

The snake handlers are looking for replacement snakes (they’re down to 3 snakes in their church) before winter hibernation set in.

Too many guys in suits walking around with their hands in their pockets.

re: #175 jaunte

No, just the usual gang of idiots.

FoxNews:

Scarequotes.

That’s why FNC is unwatchable for Obama speeches: No matter how well Obama does, they’ll say he “failed”.

That’s why I stick with CNN for any such coverage I want to see.

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

That’s why FNC is unwatchable for Obama speeches: No matter how well Obama does, they’ll say he “failed”.

That’s why I stick with CNN for any such coverage I want to see.

CNN - What we report might not be true, but at least we’re not Fox!

re: #169 jaunte

President Santorum wouldn’t have done it this way.

President Santorum would pulverize Damascus, because Book of Revelations.

re: #183 BeenHereAwhile

Ask Scott Walker. He could accommodate them.

If the diplomatic solution prevails Obama will have achieved without question a result far beyond his (or anyone else’s) greatest expectation without one more life lost. However the Fox echo chamber tries to portray it, regardless of whether Putin is given credit or not. Getting Assad to surrender their entire chemical weapons program in the midst of a civil war destined to conclude with some of those weapons in the hands of a disparate group of non state actors would be epic. There is no doubt in my mind, that had McCain and Palin been in command we would more likely be on the verge of war not only with Syria but with Russia as well.

Dec, most of our positions suck. Bad outcomes no matter what we do or don’t do.

re: #187 sagehen

President Santorum would pulverize Damascus, because Book of Revelations.

The fundies would expect a President Santorum to read Revelations for the identity of Gog and Magog and other important geopolitical information.

I suspect Santorum’s a sufficiently orthodox Catholic that he wouldn’t actually go there.

re: #168 Vicious Babushka

Because the GOP are a bunch of commie pinko peaceniks who hate war and they never, ever supported the individual mandate. Ever.

DERP.

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

I’m just saying that the email is within bounds. That shouldn’t be read as “McConnell’s right!”, but I just think it best not to go after someone for normal fundraising messages.

After all, an experienced senator who understands the issues is more qualified than some wingnut challenger who qualifications consist of being willing to call President Obama the N-word.

On one hand, I know that you are correct in the sense that any teabagger who defeats McConnell in a primary will have an excellent chance to win the general and ultimately embarrass the whole country.

On the other hand, forgive me if I am not overly concerned about the political future of a man with THIS governing policy:

Youtube Video

re: #189 Petero1818

If the diplomatic solution prevails Obama will have achieved without question a result far beyond his (or anyone else’s) greatest expectation without one more life lost. However the Fox echo chamber tries to portray it, regardless of whether Putin is given credit or not. Getting Assad to surrender their entire chemical weapons program in the midst of a civil war destined to conclude with some of those weapons in the hands of a disparate group of non state actors would be epic. There is no doubt in my mind, that had McCain and Palin been in command we would more likely be on the verge of war not only with Syria but with Russia as well.

Romney/Ryan might have been even more inept than McCain/Palin. Worst case, of course, would be Palin/???.

I demolished a giant gyro dinner.

[/shame]

GL ERROR
@ Pre render
1281: Invalid value

That’s… not helpful, java…

re: #190 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Dec, most of our positions suck. Bad outcomes no matter what we do or don’t do.

Yup. And when you are invited to walk through a shitswamp, you should enter very, very slowly.

re: #195 Amory Blaine

It’s the well-balanced meat.

re: #127 Pavlovian Hive Mind

Man, you sound like an isolationist.
That did us real good in the past.

The US has to be a member of the global neighbourhood watch in a leading role.

re: #193 bratwurst

On one hand, I know that you are correct in the sense that any teabagger who defeats McConnell in a primary will have an excellent chance to win the general and ultimately embarrass the whole country.

On the other hand, forgive me if I am not overly concerned about the political future of a man with THIS governing policy:

[Embedded content]

Fair enough.

re: #197 Decatur Deb

Yup. And when you are invited to walk through a shitswamp, you should enter very, very slowly.

But…
I live near DC.
…
..
.
Dammit, I’m screwed.

re: #201 Pavlovian Hive Mind

But…
I live near DC.
…
..
.
Dammit, I’m screwed.

Then if we and the Russians really screw one up, you’ll be the first to know.

Scenario that keeps going through my head… UN weapons inspectors get taken hostage/blown up by the “opposition”… They’ve already been shot at while trying to verify the attack, so that’s really not out of the question… if any of the inspectors are US citizens…

re: #148 CuriousLurker

Let’s see, you’ve been an LGF member for 2 years + 4 months and you have a total of 34 comments. Of the 11 most recent ones, not a single one expresses any concern about the thousands killed over the last two years—perhaps we missed those comments among the other 23 and you can point them out to us? //

Ouch!
That’s going to leave a mark.

Being an alter boy has given me a tremendous insight into the guilt I should be feeling 24/7.

re: #199 b_sharp

The US has to be a member of the global neighbourhood watch in a leading role.

I’m not trying to be a pest, but wouldn’t that make us George Zimmerman?

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

I heartily bellow with laughter in your general direction sir!

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

I’m not trying to be a pest, but wouldn’t that make us George Zimmerman?

I dunno, are they wearing a hoodie???

re: #208 Pavlovian Hive Mind

I dunno, are the wearing a hoodie???

Keffiyeh, hoodie, what’s the difference?

re: #141 Decatur Deb

Assuming our president sends our forces against Syria, it is axiomatic that there must be a desirable end-state. If we do that, what is the outcome in Syria and its neighbors in 10 years, or even 5?

If your best answer is “Nobody knows, it’s too complex”, you have no right to vote other people’s sons and daughters into another of Rumsfeld’s “Unknown Unknowns”.

Couldn’t that be said of any military action ever?

re: #209 Decatur Deb

Keffiyeh, hoodie, what’s the difference?

I’m going to wear both.
Wish me luck!

re: #203 GlutenFreeJesus

Scenario that keeps going through my head… UN weapons inspectors get taken hostage/blown up by the “opposition”… They’ve already been shot at while trying to verify the attack, so that’s really not out of the question… if any of the inspectors are US citizens…

That might be part of what Putin is hoping for. Some of the rebels are Salafists who are likely to attack anything “un-Islamic” that comes near them, a situation for which we have Saudi Arabia to thank for. They might well attack any inspectors or weapons removal units, seeing such an attack as being in fulfillment of their Mission From God.

re: #210 blueraven

Couldn’t that be said of any military action ever?

Most. Some not—viz Malvinas Falkland Islands.

Known unknowns.

re: #206 Dark_Falcon

I’m not trying to be a pest, but wouldn’t that make us George Zimmerman?

Only if you equate every member of a neighbourhood watch with the idiot in the bunch.

Concession speech:

Carlos Danger: “We didn't just do the easy stuff, we did THE HARD STUFF.” #NotKidding #NYC2013

— JoeMyGod (@JoeMyGod) September 11, 2013

re: #216 jaunte

Concession speech:

[Embedded content]

Don’t let the door hit your….
Nevermind.

re: #216 jaunte

Concession speech:

[Embedded content]

He started trolling his campaign some months ago.

Time for a late dinner.
Nighty night.

CNN Instant Poll: 6 in 10 speech-watchers back Obama on Syria - CNN Political Ticker - http://t.co/kwWPa5NyiE Blogs http://t.co/TNJe64ZKdC

— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) September 11, 2013

re: #220 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Does that mean the speech was persuasive, or just that people who like and trust this president were more likely to watch the speech than those who don’t?

Ten weeks ago we had Sydney Leathers, Carlos Danger, and Anthony Weiner. Now we have no leathers, no danger, and no weiner. :(

— Ken Jennings (@KenJennings) September 11, 2013

re: #81 A Mom Anon

And the fucks we should give are how many? No. One. Cares. What these idiots do. They have no power or influence over a damned thing.

You might as well tell Norman Bates to stop obsessing over his mother and cutlery.

re: #150 goddamnedfrank

McCain would still have us balls deep in Iraq.

And Georgia…don’t forget…

Interesting. Putin does not want a US military strike on Syria, he basically had two choices to avert such a strike. Either threaten the US with Russian retaliation if the US strikes Syria, or, come up with a diplomatic solution such as he has. Assad hands over his chemical weapons and they are destroyed. Putin may get some credits, but ANY use of chemical or non conventional weapons by the Assad regime, will be on Putin’s head as he is vouching for Assad. I really don’t think Putin wants that.

Obama, for my money, is totally ready to strike, and will do so, with or without congress, with or without the international community. Obama understands the value of diplomacy and shared solutions also, so he has allowed time for them to be worked through. If in the interim however the Assad regime staged another chemical or unconventional weapons attack on the Syrian opposition and civilians, Obama’s next speech wouldn’t be to tell everyone what he is going to do, but what he has already done, struck Syria.

This speech was very much for Assad, very much for Putin and then the American politicos and people. No pin pricks was a very blunt warning.

I doubt that Assad really wants to comply and hand over his arsenal, he will be seen as buckling to US pressure, regardless of the Russian intervention. Assad’s position will be seen as weakened by the opposition and they will become somewhat emboldened I suspect. But I’m pretty sure Putin has told him straight, Assad, hand them over or your strength will become so reduced you probably won’t last very long at all.

I don’t think anyone really wants to see the US taking military action, but that is really up to Assad now. Either way, I think Assad is playing two pair against a royal flush.

re: #134 psddluva4evah

That’s actually a good article by Andrew Sullivan.

Bravo to the President. It was a very good speech, and I appreciate him treating the populace as if we are intelligent. As others here have said, his skills in the world politik are unmatched in today’s leaders.

re: #38 bmiller11757

OK, I’m stepping into this late. But, please fuck right off.

Yes. Children card…because apparently pointing out that someone is gassing children is the only way to get people to give a fuck.

Except even THAT doesn’t seem to be enough for either moonbats or the wingnuts.

A great speech by a great diplomat and statesman and president and HUMAN BEING. His speeches remind me why I voted for him TWICE.

Amend the constitution to give him a third term!

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

It’s kind of funny. Here’s Obama emulating TR, using the bully pulpit like a goddamned genius. He gives every domestic critic what they want, acquiesces to calls that he seek congressional authorization, manages to stare down Putin and Assad, they blink, and the fuckwits all think they outmaneuvered him.

Amazing.

If Bush had managed a crisis like this everyone would be calling him some kind of wizard.

I regret I only have one upding to give.